#rockbox 2008-12-27

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#rockbox log for 2008-12-27

00:04:04		Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@host86-141-230-122.range86-141.btcentralplus.com)
00:04:50		Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
00:06:02	fml	Ah, (google) found it: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MultiFontSupport
00:07:41	webguest84	when i try to install rockbox via rockbox utility i find the drive and click install>okay> but the progress bar says 'searching for sansa' 'No sansa detected!'
00:10:25		Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]")
00:12:14	fml	linuxstb: ping
00:12:38	webguest84	could some one help me?
00:13:10	krazykit	webguest84, are you running rockbox utility as an administrator / root permissions?
00:13:31	webguest84	yes
00:13:50	BigBambi	whch sansa?
00:13:55	BigBambi	and is it a v1?
00:13:57	fml	webguest84: is your player in the right USB mode?
00:14:11	webguest84	msc, v1 e260
00:14:42	BigBambi	could you pastebin the output of the Rockbox Utility info page?
00:14:49	fml	webguest84: what OS do you use? Is the player recognized as a drive?
00:15:33	webguest84	windows yes it is
00:15:57	BigBambi	And is the drive letter and the model set correctly in the settings?
00:16:16	webguest84	not the model
00:16:24	webguest84	it only shows e200
00:16:27	webguest84	and c200
00:16:32		Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
00:16:33	BigBambi	that is correct
00:16:36	fml	webguest84: i.e. it's shown as a drive with a letter? (e.g. G:) Normally, a sansa e260 should have two letters, e.g. G: and H:
00:16:38		Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
00:16:43	BigBambi	e200 and c200 series
00:16:48		Join aurix_lexico [0] (n=adam@140bus188.tampabay.res.rr.com)
00:17:05	webguest84	i have F andG
00:17:06	BigBambi	webguest84: Could you tell us what the info tab says?
00:17:18	webguest84	it says nothing
00:17:20	BigBambi	webguest84: And have you selected the correct one?
00:17:34	webguest84	it donsnt have the correct one
00:17:39	BigBambi	eh?
00:17:43	webguest84	in option iv selected the correct drive
00:17:43	fml	webguest84: hrm... Then everything should be fine. I can't add anything. Sorry.
00:17:55		Quit fml ("CGI:IRC")
00:18:07	BigBambi	webguest84: What doesn't have the correct one?
00:18:16	webguest84	the model
00:18:27	BigBambi	I've just said, e200 means the e200 series
00:18:40	webguest84	ah
00:19:05	BigBambi	Can you click on about, then system info, copy the output to www.pastebin.ca and then give us the link?
00:20:15	robin0800	can someone comment on r19579 and what it means for the c200?
00:20:35	webguest84	sure
00:22:42		Quit filesdown4 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
00:23:42	krazykit	robin0800, it looks like it doesn't mean much to the end user.
00:24:03		Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
00:24:06	webguest84	http://www.pastebin.ca/1294174
00:24:35	BigBambi	looks fine
00:24:51	BigBambi	So you have selected sansa e200 on F:?
00:25:02	robin0800	jhMikeS would you care to comment?
00:25:16	webguest84	yes i have
00:25:26	BigBambi	webguest84: Don't know then I'm afraid
00:25:32	webguest84	>.<
00:25:41	BigBambi	webguest84: Maybe hang around and see if anyone else does
00:25:48	webguest84	sure
00:26:07	krazykit	webguest84, have you tried doing a manual install (as described in the rockbox manual)?
00:26:24	webguest84	not yet im afraid i would do it wrong
00:26:38	krazykit	you can't really screw it up if you just follow the instructions
00:27:14	webguest84	if it dosnt work out can i just copy the system files out and put them back in?
00:28:07	krazykit	if it "doesn't work", then nothing should be altered on your sansa
00:28:29	webguest84	ah
00:28:30	webguest84	okay
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00:32:22	webguest84	woot got it
00:32:35	webguest84	thanks
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00:39:43	webguest84	iv got a 8 gig micro sd hc and rockbox supports it right?
00:39:49	BigBambi	yes
00:40:01	BigBambi	But you will need to use a card reader to copy stuff onto it
00:40:23	webguest84	i dont have one
00:40:39	BigBambi	Then you cannot copy anything onto it
00:41:26	amiconn	You can, it's just not very convenient.
00:41:38	webguest84	how?
00:41:40	BigBambi	Rockbox doesn't yet have it's own USB mode for the e200, so we reboot to the Sansa firmware. The Sansa firmware doesn't support SDHC
00:41:49	BigBambi	amiconn: Not if you don't want to risk data corruption
00:42:07	amiconn	Make a little room on the internal storage. Connect the sansa to the pc and copy some files to the internal storage
00:42:25	BigBambi	But be warned, a bug in the SD driver could lead to data corruption
00:42:28	amiconn	Disconnect usb, and use rockbox to move the files from internal storage to the card
00:42:31	webguest84	k
00:42:36	amiconn	Repeat as necessary.
00:43:14	amiconn	BigBambi: Data corruption usually only happens if the cpu is boosted. When copying files without music playing it normally isn't.
00:43:22	BigBambi	But it can be
00:43:29	BigBambi	And I just think we ought to warn people
00:43:35	webguest84	i have a adapter to a dell axim with it could i transfer files onto that then whitch to the e200?
00:43:52	BigBambi	especially as copying large amounts of data increase the chances
00:44:07	webguest84	mmm
00:44:13	webguest84	thin i dont think i will
00:44:18	BigBambi	webguest84: I don't know what a Dell Axim is, but if you have another way of getting data onto the card, then go for it
00:44:26	webguest84	thanks
00:44:29	webguest84	ill try it
00:44:35	BigBambi	webguest84: As amiconn says, the chances are small - I just wanted to warn
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00:45:08	webguest84	just got this for xmas dont think ill do that unless i need to
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01:05:17	webguest84	well it seems the axium dosnt support HC 2...
01:09:00	webguest84	how do you copy the files to the micro sd?
01:09:32	BigBambi	I use a card reader
01:09:52	BigBambi	Or do you mean from within Rockbox from the internal memory to the card?
01:10:00	webguest84	within
01:10:07	BigBambi	The manual tells you
01:10:10	BigBambi	I think
01:10:47	BigBambi	Enter the context menu for the directory you want to cut and select ut
01:10:50	BigBambi	*cut
01:11:05	BigBambi	Then go to where you want to put it, open the context menu and select paste
01:11:40	webguest84	wheres cut?
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01:11:53	BigBambi	The context menu
01:12:00	BigBambi	check the manual
01:13:23	webguest84	thanks
01:27:30	webguest84	o wow
01:27:34	webguest84	i can only cut one at a time?
01:30:48	Llorean	You can cut one file or folder at a time, yes.
01:33:35	webguest84	oh folder
01:33:38	webguest84	thats a help
01:36:18		Quit ender` (" My main computers will have their own special operating system that will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and M")
01:37:36	Unhelpful	hrm, we might have a problem on a buildserver? i'm fairly sure my commit did not fix that yellow.
01:39:43	saratoga	we use PP in Little Endian mode right?
01:40:26	Llorean	I believe so
01:42:47	webguest84	what conversion program do you use for videos?
01:43:14	Llorean	webguest84: There are several on the wiki PluginMpegplayer page.
01:43:17	Llorean	I recommend WinFF
01:43:58	webguest84	okay
01:44:47	webguest84	can i add codecs to it to support other files?
01:45:57		Quit Slack_ (Connection timed out)
01:47:25	Llorean	No. It comes with a ridiculously huge selection of codecs anyway
01:50:00	webguest84	im confused i thought it only could play mpeg
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01:51:13	krazykit	Mpegplayer can only play mpeg1 and mpeg2 video. winff can convert a very large selection of codecs to those supported formats.
01:53:26	webguest84	iv tried to convert it using it but i get an error
01:54:05	Llorean	Oh. Hey. Look. Someone wants to fork Rockbox. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=19929.0 it's apparently not pretty enough
01:55:35	webguest84	sounds like the reg player
02:00
02:00:03	Unhelpful	should rb->screens[SCREEN_MAIN]->getcharheight() work for greylib overlay? i'm working on syncing FS #8335
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02:04:11	webguest84	what formats does winff support
02:05:46	Unhelpful	...look at its website or documentation for that. stuff that's not about rockbox itself belongs in #rockbox-community, and you may have better luck getting help from winff's website, or a support channel for it, if there is one, than on here.
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02:07:31	webguest84	ah right, sorry
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02:23:23	Debian365	ls
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02:41:03	saratoga	what does this define actually do:
02:41:05	saratoga	# define NEG_SSR32(a,s) ((( int32_t)(a))>>(32-(s)))
02:44:15	Unhelpful	shifts a right by 32-s bits, preserving sign?
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02:45:16	saratoga	why the NEG then?
02:45:31	saratoga	i get the Signed Shift Right 32
02:45:37	saratoga	but not the NEG
02:46:00	Unhelpful	i'm guessing to make it clear that it's 32-s, and not s, but it doesn't really make sense to me, either.
02:46:13	Unhelpful	INV instead of NEG might make sense
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02:52:00	fenugrec	Hi all; concerning the Sansa e200 devices - apart from looking at the firmware version, is there a way to tell a v1 from a v2 ? (i.e. are the model or serial numbers recognisably different ?)
02:52:19	saratoga	are there any ARM optimized codes somewhere in rockbox for unaligned parsing of files and bitstreams?
02:52:26	saratoga	fenugrec: No.
02:54:08	fenugrec	ok, thanks. I was hoping for a "serial number decoder " or something. I'm watching a few e200 on ebay, I'll just hope it's recent enough to be a v2
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02:55:25	Unhelpful	try froobi, perhaps, if they have them in stock. they sell refurbed e200v1 players, and i don't think anybody here has gotten one from them that turned out to be v2.
02:56:43	fenugrec	hmm, they actually have a "rockbox-ready" e200 !
02:56:52	fenugrec	actually I want a v2
02:57:05	advcomp2019	they do have a v2 there too
02:57:22	saratoga	buy a fuze then
02:57:28	fenugrec	wonder if they ship to Canada ?
02:57:33	saratoga	all fuzes are AMS
02:58:00	fenugrec	I haven't totally understood the difference between v2 / v4 / AMS devices
02:59:41	fenugrec	why fuze rather than e200 ?
03:00
03:00:10		Quit gregorovius (Remote closed the connection)
03:05:11	ameyer	I suppose the fuze is smaller and less discontinued.
03:05:57	ameyer	I also suppose this is borderline #rockbox-community material
03:06:06	fenugrec	seems currently available from sandisk
03:06:19	fenugrec	oh, I didn't realise there was another rockbox channel
03:06:33	*	ameyer thought the e200 was discontinued.
03:06:44	fenugrec	yes, but the fuze is available
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03:11:26	fenugrec	damn, froobi is US-only
03:11:59	fenugrec	too bad... e250 for 30$ - too good to be true, obviously
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03:14:49	webguest84	i got my e260 for $40
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03:15:57	fenugrec	yeah, it's harder to get good deals outside US
03:17:41	ameyer	I got 2 2gb clips shipped for... $35, I think
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03:18:32	ameyer	err, $37
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04:58:24	Unhelpful	pictureflow with resize disabled... not pretty.
05:00
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05:02:16	Monga	Hey, I'm looking to buy an Mp4 player today.. is there anything currently sold that I can hack/
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05:05:32	ameyer	not as far as I know
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05:17:27	gotthardt	greetings
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05:22:43	gotthardt	any other devs here?
05:23:07	gotthardt	i just wanted to consult before i fixed a bug
05:23:43	gotthardt	has to do with sound.c, balance and wm8751 driver (maybe others)
05:24:22	gotthardt	When volume is muted/low/off, the balance is set to VOLUME_MIN - but it should be muted.
05:25:00	saratoga	gotthardt: open up an FS entry for it
05:25:02	gotthardt	Should we have a VOLUME_MUTE (or other define name) or use VOLUME_MIN - 10, etc
05:25:12	gotthardt	It is open and I am working on it
05:25:16	saratoga	ah ok
05:25:29	saratoga	i don't think you'll find anyone familar with that online now, its quite late in europe
05:25:31	gotthardt	I just want to hear other input
05:25:36	gotthardt	ok
05:26:29	gotthardt	I can fix it, I just want it to be blessed ;)
05:26:49	saratoga	you can check back tomorrow earlier in the day, or else just open an entry for it and hopefully someone will see it
05:26:56	gotthardt	ok - thanks
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09:25:41	casainho	hello :-)
09:26:00	casainho	can someone help me on the boot.lds linker script?
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11:46:05	amiconn	JdGordon: Did you see http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20081226#11:13:59 ?
11:47:15	JdGordon	have now... yeah that could work
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12:13:42	JdGordon	I guess noone has any thoughts on my dev-ml email?
12:19:33	n1s	JdGordon: i think it has the con of being harder to predict compared to hard limits as it is now but that shoouldn't be a problem if out-of-memory errors are handled nicely
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12:28:22	JdGordon	is that con worse than the better use or the ram, possibly being able to waste less on the wps?
12:28:47	JdGordon	out of ram should be pretty simple to handle
12:29:14	JdGordon	it should definetly waste less ram on lcd remote targets
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12:36:40	*	JdGordon gives up trying to redraw the 4x8 pixel numbers
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13:06:31	*	JdGordon for some reason thought the statusbar didnt use the sysfont for the numbers :/
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13:13:37	Jaykay	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/8335 is afaik fully committed, why is it not closed?
13:14:11	Jaykay	in the latest revision
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14:03:48	n1s	any sansa clip users around?
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14:41:02	kugel	JdGordon: so it uses sysfont or not?
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14:42:43	kugel	Unhelpful: "user specific reflections"?
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14:44:13	JdGordon	kugel: it needs some 4x8 icon numbers for the rec statusbar, sysfont for the clock
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14:50:47	n1s	can anyone tell me if there's a significant volume difference between fm and playback on the clip?
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15:13:08	JdGordon	does anyone have an opinion on this being able to draw numbers from a bmp patch?
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15:22:03	amiconn	JdGordon: Imo it's the wrong way. Multifont is a wanted feature, it needs to be done properly though
15:22:14	amiconn	markun had some ideas/plans regarding that
15:23:28	JdGordon	yes, and I'm not disputing that... but that might take years before it happens
15:24:25	JdGordon	although Llorean rekons this oculd play with multifont anyway because it lets you have 16bit coloured numbers which mf wont
15:25:39	n1s	maybe a generic way so select text color per tag on the wps would be nicer for that so it can be used for other things too?
15:25:46	n1s	s/so/to/
15:25:59	moos	JdGordon: what's about bin size impact? I can thing lot of WPS desiners happy with this feature
15:26:19	JdGordon	havnt checked... shouldnt be much...
15:26:23	JdGordon	couple hundred bytes maybe
15:26:54	pixelma	n1s: you can do this somewhat with viewports (though a bit inconvenient)
15:27:24	JdGordon	more than that though... if you know what the background colour will be you can use this to put AA fonts on the wps
15:27:35	JdGordon	or funky multicoloured glyphs
15:27:50	n1s	pixelma: ah, right i'm not up to date on wps features
15:28:51	n1s	JdGordon: anyway i agree with amiconn, this seems like a stop-gap thing to use instead of multifont
15:29:24	moos	n1s: you can mix the two
15:31:48	n1s	moos: i don't see why you would want to
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15:33:04	JdGordon	crap.. 1300 bytes!
15:33:07	moos	to have 16bit coloured numbers? /me use cabbie wps and a very simple one in the past :)
15:33:14	moos	aie
15:33:32	JdGordon	1400 RAM... groan
15:34:06	n1s	moos: but why should only numbers have colours and not letters?
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15:35:14	moos	n1s: indeed, make a patch ;P
15:42:17	moos	fml seems to be interested to work on multi-fonts in the good way, but wondered about this good way. According to yesterday log, started at 23:43
15:44:02	moos	that's good to see someone finally interesting to rework font rendering system. Markun seems to gave up.
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15:44:51	JdGordon	given up or out of time?...
15:46:10	moos	the time past quickly :) he wanted to work on this, but that was a while ago now
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15:56:20	fml	Can anybody tell me why the font cache uses LRU and not a hash table?
15:58:43	JdGordon	becuase fonts are bigger than the buffer... so unused glyphs need to bee dumped when a new glyph gets loaded
15:59:13	JdGordon	this is even more true if we start loading 2 or 3 fonts into a single buffer
15:59:26	fml	JdGordon: this can also be done with a hash table.
15:59:52	fml	Just the lookup would be faster (no need to perform binary search)
16:00
16:00:14	JdGordon	true... maybe whoever did fontcache in the beginign likes lru more than hash
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16:00:55	JdGordon	I dont tihnk anyone is forcing multifont to work exactly like current font cache, as long as it uses 1 buffer, and works efficiently
16:02:34	fml	JdGordon: about one buffer: how is it supposed to work with multiple fonts? Now all entries have the same size, but when we have different fonts of different (bitmap) sizes then... what then?
16:02:56	JdGordon	thats the problem that needs to be solved :)
16:03:12	fml	It's gonna be a pain to manage that. So why not a buffer per font?
16:03:15	JdGordon	especially with non fixed-width fonts
16:03:52	fml	JdGordon: non-fixed-size is handled already. The space is allocated for a max width glyph.
16:04:14	JdGordon	if we want to have say 300KB resevered for fonts, if we share that between 2 fonts thats 150 each... one font might be only using 10K of that while the other font keeps being swapped around
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16:05:09	kugel	fml: hey I see your interested in multifont
16:05:10	fml	That's what I thought. The same thing as the one once done in WPS (all tokens in one big array)
16:05:12	kugel	I am too
16:05:54	fml	kugel: that's actually not a font but rather a buffer handling problem. It's interesting from a theretical point of view :-)
16:06:21	kugel	I'm interested in everything what's needed to get it working :P
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16:07:11	kugel	fml: 1 buffer is definitely the way to go imho
16:07:21	fml	kugel: could you tell me what's already decided about how one buffer (cache) should/could work for many fonts (of different sizes)?
16:07:30	kugel	this way users using 1 font have the least drawback
16:07:57	kugel	nothing is decided, besides what I stated above
16:09:18	JdGordon	fml: I think the hardest thing is to keep track of wasted buffer... you might end up having to dump 2 or 3 glyphs from one font to fit a glyph in from the other font
16:09:40	JdGordon	fragmentation sucks, but if its managed it might be minimal
16:09:59	JdGordon	especially if its smart enough to keep track of it and move glpyhs around when there is room
16:10:21	fml	kugel: why not partition the big buffer into many sub-buffers (one for each font)? If a font is added then the buffer is dynamically repartitioned. Each sub-buffer has entries of a const size (specific to that sub-buffer)
16:10:41	*	JdGordon already answered that
16:11:19	fml	JdGordon: sub-buffers would of course have NOT the same size.
16:11:30	kugel	fml: we're not malloc'ing, remember that
16:12:03	JdGordon	you dont know how big each fonts partition needs untill after a while of usage
16:12:10	fml	Or we can consider it as a general problem of keeping track of entries of variable size. The key is (font-number, glyph-code), and the data is the bitmap of the glyph.
16:12:40	fml	But then we have to cope with entries of variable size
16:13:16	JdGordon	semi-variable size...
16:13:32	JdGordon	if glyphs are always given the max bytes needed for the font
16:14:09	fml	JdGordon: they are still of dif sizes for different fonts
16:14:22	JdGordon	yeah, but less to worry about..
16:14:56	fml	JdGordon: sometimes keeping the problem general makes the solution simpler
16:15:23	JdGordon	yeah, but its 2am here.. so :p
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16:15:47	amiconn	I think that there should be one single cache, caching glyphs from all fonts. And since the fonts are of different size, it shouldn't be much more difficult to handle different glyph sizes within a font either
16:15:55	fml	Couldn't we reuse the buffering code for that? It already has everything needed for memory handling
16:16:09	amiconn	markun had some ideas regarding that. I strongly suggest to ask him
16:16:13	JdGordon	buffering is a simple ring buffer
16:16:26	fml	amiconn: exactly
16:17:36	JdGordon	it depends how much fragmentation we are happy to live with... it might be ok to dump/replace glyphs close to best fit + lru and just rebuild the cache if fragmentation gets too high
16:18:03	JdGordon	keeping each fonts glyphs the same size will make that more manageable
16:18:18	*	kugel is with amiconn too
16:19:27	kugel	if we handle different glyph width it shouldn't actually matter if they're of different fonts
16:20:00	fml	amiconn: but to achieve that you'd have to implement a memory management system (like that for malloc)
16:20:38	fml	Sorry, I have to go
16:20:40	JdGordon	how big are glpyhs?
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16:20:57	kugel	depends ;)
16:21:21	amiconn	No malloc necessary
16:21:35	amiconn	Font caching already uses an lru caching implementation
16:21:39	JdGordon	8*8 is what? 8 bytes+overhead?
16:23:30	amiconn	The lru cache needs to be extended to store the font id as well, and iirc it also needs to learn how to handle variable glyph sizes (iirc it uses fixed sizes, which is sub-optimal but ok for a single font, but won't be ok for 2 or more fonts)
16:24:28	amiconn	In order to avoid fragmentation frequent memmoving will probably be necessary, but that should be okay even on a slow cpu (the font cache isn't that big)
16:24:51	kugel	amiconn: actually, the lru_node struct has a place holder member which we could use for the font id
16:25:48	JdGordon	I'm thinking keep a fixed size for each font (not perfect but simplifies things), this could mean needing to replace mroe than 1 glpyh to fit a new one in which will waste some space.. if that space is more than X bytes then we can use a linked list of them to keep track (without using any extra space to do it), then some occasional memove will reclaim it
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16:27:47	JdGordon	the link would need 8 bytes, 4 for the size and 4 for the next pointer.. which i would guess is safe to assume would be available
16:28:29	JdGordon	if its less than that then just keep a count but otherwise ignore it
16:28:35	amiconn	You surely won't need 4 bytes for the size of a glyph...
16:28:51	kugel	and not 4 for a pointer
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16:29:32	JdGordon	yeah, 1 would be enough for the size, 4 for the pointer still thouhg
16:29:37	amiconn	kugel: 4 byte for the pointer are necessary, given that we might want >64KB of font cache on bigmem targets
16:29:40	JdGordon	would that sort of thing work?
16:30:09	amiconn	That is even if we don't use true pointers, but offsets, in order to simplify things when memmoving
16:31:04	kugel	err, yea, my bad
16:31:53	JdGordon	bed time.. and then mostly afk till mid week.. hopefully someone tries this idea out :)
16:33:37	kugel	yea, hopefully
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16:43:25	kugel	amiconn: how does this sound, we extend the lru_node by a font id, a size and an offset member (and initializse the lru cache with max size insead of max slots). That'll make it bigger but it should be sufficient to handle differend glyph widths?
16:44:38	kugel	offset to the base of the lru that is, but that's maybe not even needed
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17:15:07	bugonshoe	what does it mean when the rockbox boots and says cleared
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17:21:00	krazykit	bugonshoe, it means your settings were reset
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17:22:44	bugonshoe	oh :(
17:23:01	bugonshoe	bugger
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17:26:54	webguest33	how do i know if a sansa is v2?
17:29:37	sin613	i believe it has something to do with the OF firmware version
17:29:41	kugel	webguest33: check the firmware version
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17:41:21	webguest33	kugel: how do i know that before i order one?
17:41:50	kugel	not at all
17:42:03	scorche\|sh	webguest33: you dont, really...unless the website advertises it like froobi did
17:42:27	webguest33	they have a sale on them at amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HZ9CCA?ie=UTF8&seller=A3G310FDDXR40D&sn=directsale
17:43:22	scorche\|sh	and?....i doubt those are v1
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17:44:08	webguest33	oh
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17:44:34	scorche\|sh	no new devices are going to be a v1...you pretty much either need to get refurbished or used and hope for the best
17:45:13	webguest33	is there anything you can buy new that would work?
17:45:37	scorche\|sh	no
17:47:30	webguest33	are they working on the sansa fuze?
17:48:46	webguest33	im just wondering if i could expect maybe one day that they would have rockbox for it
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17:50:15	scorche\|sh	i wouldnt "expect" anything, but a port is in progress, yes...you can look at the status in the forum thread about it
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18:33:32	webguest33	hmm know any place that sells the e280 refurbished v1?
18:34:12	scorche\|sh	froobi used to, but i think they might be sold out
18:39:57	webguest33	yes i saw that . . .
18:40:17	webguest33	woot did too apparently
18:40:42	webguest33	so v1 and v2 refers onlt to the firmware?
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18:40:59	scorche\|sh	no..it is just most easily seen by checking the firmware
18:41:08	scorche\|sh	the hardware inside is completely different
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18:41:33	webguest33	ok so if i ask someone on ebay, what would they look for to know . . . what firmware range?
18:41:47	kugel	1.02.xx
18:41:55	kugel	1.01.xx will work too
18:42:07	webguest33	ok so 1.02.xx and lower
18:42:13	kugel	the leading number is significant
18:42:18	scorche\|sh	webguest33: anything 1xxxxxxx is a v1...anything 3xxxxx is a v2
18:42:20	kugel	3.xx.xx is e200v2
18:42:56	kugel	but that only applies for the e200, the fuze has a 1.xx.xx firmware and will NOT run rockbox
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18:45:52	webguest33	could i tell from the p/n?
18:45:55	webguest33	P/N:SDMX4-8192-A70
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18:50:50	krazykit	webguest67, the only definitive method is the firmware revision
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19:00
19:04:32	webguest67	E2V3JR would probably be v2 then
19:06:45	webguest67	krazykit: this one looks like a really good refurbished deal if it can do rockbox
19:08:24	webguest67	$40 for e260
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19:27:00	webguest73	Have there been any reported issues with installing RockBoxUtility on Vista x64?
19:29:00	webguest73	I'm unable to get the installer to work. I get an error message which returns: "This application has failed to start because mingwm10.dll was not found."
19:29:05	lucent	I haven't heard of anyone using Vista
19:30:06	*	amiconn thinks that the current windows rbutil is buggy (not fully static build or some missing build flag)
19:30:13	lucent	also $40 for an e260 is okay, I guess... a better deal is the Clip or Sansa (but those aren't fully working yet)
19:31:25	pixelma	webguest73: I read similar reports in the forums, the dev providing the Windows Rockbox Utility is aware of this but didn't have the time to fix it yet
19:31:58	webguest73	Thanks guys. I'll do a manual install.
19:32:52	kugel	webguest73: http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?mingwm10 download this as a workaround
19:33:10	kugel	and put it to X;/windows/system32
19:33:25	webguest73	Thanks kugel. I'll give that a go.
19:33:59	lucent	webguest73: Fuze 8gb is what I own and use with Rockbox... there's a lot of showstoppers but basic playback of FLAC files works if you create a 500mb filesystem
19:37:20	*	amiconn wouldn't put a dll that isn't meant to be used permanently into \\windows\\system32
19:37:32	amiconn	I'd rather put it into the program's folder
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19:40:47	webguest67	lucent: i thought fuze 8gb didnt work with rockbox?
19:41:28	scorche\|sh	webguest67: it is not supported...as i said before, there is a port in progress and you can check the status of that in the new ports forum...
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19:42:00	lucent	webguest67: I'm just saying what I know, rockbox runs and the wheel kinda sort of works enough to use the plugins. There's a crash when accessing data beyond 0.97GB
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20:46:03	kugel	jhMikeS: wouldn't such #ifdefs in the si4700 driver fit better in a tuner-target.h to keep the driver as generic as possible? (I'm just curios)
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20:52:08	jhMikeS	kugel: Sure. It's just not there atm.
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21:21:45	gotthardt	i looked through the rockbox pages, but can't find this: how to add flyspray tracker # in the comment for svn commit
21:25:10	gevaerts	gotthardt: I believe the consensus is to just mention FS#xxxx
21:25:58	gotthardt	great - I want it to show up as a link in the commit comment - I'll add that info on the wiki - thanks
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22:00:47	gevaerts	I'm not sure if showing up as a link will work
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22:03:46	*	gevaerts sees that it does show up :)
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22:07:29	gotthardt	;)
22:12:11		Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
22:13:22	Unhelpful	kugel: whenever you get back - i mean config options for the reflection brightness and falloff function. i did a test with some that are darker near the bottom, and they look pretty good with the bottom album title
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22:24:16	bertrik	wow someone got busy with the si4700 driver
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22:29:59	kugel	Unhelpful: ah ok, and they're calculated at caching or "in place"?
22:31:17	kugel	Unhelpful: also, I didn't quite get your one commit (r19598), was that meant to enable pf on greyscale or not?
22:31:43	kugel	Unhelpful: ah lol, nevermind, yes it does
22:32:05	toffe82	gotthardt: hello , long time no see :)
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22:41:56	Dekkard	gevaerts, : i got my 1st gen to a win machine.. the install was flawless.. and doom, and mpegplayer work fairly slick
22:42:10	Dekkard	i just need to wear reading glasses
22:43:46	Dekkard	frankly.. this beats the living daylights out of the stock ipod nano
22:44:56	scorche\|sh	Dekkard: you can change to a larger font if that is what you were referring to..
22:45:07	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:45:12	Dekkard	i got the font thing down.. even installed some extras..
22:45:27	Dekkard	but doom.. is quite small on the 1st gen nano
22:45:44	Dekkard	thanks though
22:46:02	Dekkard	and.. i´m 52.. my eyes aren´t what they used to be
22:46:36	Dekkard	question.. is rockbox linux?
22:46:59	agaffney	no
22:47:06	Dekkard	ok
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22:48:22	Dekkard	i wa scurious.. with it playing frozen bubble.. and the text editor and all
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22:52:33	nevr	Ive got a 1GB 1st gen ipod nano, if I install rockbox how high can I get the storage capacity? I know 4GB is the max stock 1st gen nano, can rockbox support any higher?
22:52:58	krazykit	it's not a matter of rockbox supporting it, it's a matter of "that's how apple made them"
22:54:23	nevr	If the data, address, and page lines are all the same, it then becomes a matter of software to support it, correct?
22:54:40		Quit bluebrother (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:54:58	viraptor	hi - I couldn't find any information about mpower devices on the official page - did anyone try to port rockbox there? (it's a 5 button thingy with upgradeable firmware and probably a vga size display - audio+video)
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22:57:29	krazykit	nevr, er, no. a 1GB ipod nano only has a 1GB of flash storage. you can't use software to increase available space
22:57:43	agaffney	what if it's "magic" software?
22:57:50	Dekkard	lol
22:57:58	nevr	krazykit, im not talking about magically turning a 1GB device in to 4GB...Im asking about chip replacement...
22:58:53	krazykit	you never said anything about replacing a chip. rockbox itself shouldn't impose any size limits. i'm not sure about the hardware, though.
23:00
23:00:28	agaffney	if they sold equivelant 4GB models, you shouldn't have a problem going that high
23:00:38	agaffney	any higher, and you're likely in uncharted territory
23:00:47	nevr	krazykit, sorry, I guess I should have said that.
23:01:18	nevr	agaffney, that is what I was wondering, Ill just have to poke around some more when I have time. Thanks for the info guys.
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23:11:12	viraptor	hmm... I guess noone heard of mpower... are there any devs who would like to have a look at the support, if someone sent them one device?
23:12:54	Unhelpful	kugel: pf currently generates reflections in the cache, with the result that they take up space in cache. i'm working on modifying it to store only the actual scaled covers in the cache, and generate the reflections via a lookup table
23:13:12	Bagder	viraptor: history shows that such efforts hardly makes much of a difference, but try asking on the dev list and you'll find out
23:14:37	Unhelpful	it will make the cache entries take up less space on disk and in memory, and the user-configurable reflections can be handled by regenerating the LUT
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23:17:57	Unhelpful	i think unscaled loads pretty much have to go. it might make sense to have a user-selected scale size, but loading images at whatever size they happen to be will look wrong to somebody regardless of what you decide to do when they're too large.
23:18:31	chattodo	hi! i have a simple question... is rockbox still a battery hog?
23:19:06	krazykit	chattodo, on what device?
23:19:07	viraptor	Bagder: it seems to be an awfuly cheap, but decent player, so I guess I'll try at some point...
23:19:13	Unhelpful	...it ever was, across the board?
23:19:28	chattodo	i installed it twice over different periods of times, and i noticed that battery would be drained much quicker than the regular apple kernel.
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23:19:35	Bagder	Unhelpful: no, only on some targets
23:19:42	chattodo	i am using a nano 1st generation
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23:26:21	Doppelgamer	Hey all, how do I reset the rockbox database?
23:26:35	Doppelgamer	I've got it installed on a 4th gen grayscale iPod
23:26:54	kugel	Unhelpful: I don't think so
23:27:24	Unhelpful	kugel: with regard to what, specifically?
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23:27:37	kugel	re: unscaled loads pretty much have to go
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23:28:29	kugel	I think cache building is questionable for unscaled loads with your reflection rework
23:29:09	kugel	but it's definitely nice to have
23:29:12	bluebrother	Doppelgamer: remove all *.tcd files in the /.rockbox folder
23:29:17	kugel	and I don't see anything wrong with it
23:29:29		Quit chattodo ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:29:35	Unhelpful	kugel: maybe fail covers that are "too large" if scaling is off?
23:29:57	Doppelgamer	bluebrother: Thanks!
23:30:12	kugel	Unhelpful: why would you want the user to force resizing? what's the gain of that?
23:31:20	kugel	Unhelpful: unscaled is made for users who are aware of their album arts, I don't see any problems
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23:31:30	Unhelpful	kugel: i think it's needed to make it look nice. covers above DISPLAY_SIZE don't really work right, and there aren't too many ways to get them to.
23:31:35	Unhelpful	fair enough, then.
23:31:56	kugel	Unhelpful: not look nice to you maybe, but that's why there's the option
23:32:11	Unhelpful	kugel: i mean they get cropped in unpredictable ways.
23:32:38	Unhelpful	i can probably fix that, but it's still going to be not-nice. but yes, on-by-default might be quite good enough.
23:32:43	kugel	Unhelpful: really, the user who doesn't want resizing doesn't have such covers
23:32:52	kugel	or will get them sorted out once he noticed the glitches
23:33:26	kugel	on-by-default is perfect imho
23:33:41	kugel	especially in a plugin there's no reason to restrict users
23:35:00	kugel	Unhelpful: I suppose it's a problem of the bmp loader if the bmp's higher than screen dimensions aren't cropped properly?
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23:36:39	spidersmlb	hey
23:37:12	Unhelpful	kugel: they aren't cropped in the loader at all. only the renderer ever imposes limits on how much of them to display
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23:38:11	spidersmlb	i need help plz
23:38:30	agaffney	spidersmlb: we can't read your mind
23:38:32	*	bluebrother wonders what a plz is
23:38:48	bluebrother	already read the IrcGuidelines? ;-)
23:38:49		Quit advcomp2019 (Nick collision from services.)
23:38:50	agaffney	bluebrother: probably related to a kthx
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23:39:26	spidersmlb	the loader said that device is not found
23:40:00		Quit spidersmlb (Client Quit)
23:40:02	bluebrother	please refine "loader", "device" and "says".
23:40:12	kugel	Unhelpful: hm, I'm thinking it would be reasonable if the loader crops if it's not told to resize
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23:41:10	Unhelpful	kugel: i would only want that if the caller requested cropping
23:41:13	kugel	unless you explain how uncropped bmp's could be useful of course ;)
23:41:28	kugel	yea, that works too
23:41:47	kugel	probably even better
23:42:18	Unhelpful	...they were useful when there was a separate scaler. also, i suppose a bmp strip might exceed the screen height?
23:42:32	gotthardt	hey toffe82
23:42:42	gotthardt	i seem to show up at the end of the year...
23:42:59	Unhelpful	actually, i think storing the max loaded size during cache build, and then scaling the "no cover" to that size would be just fine.
23:43:53	kugel	ah yea, strips
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23:44:49	Unhelpful	actually, this handles oversized images as well as possible, given the renderer design
23:45:11		Quit gotthardt ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008121622]")
23:45:13	kugel	are you at pictureflow again?
23:45:24	spidersmlb	hey
23:45:39	kugel	Unhelpful: I didn't quite get what you meant
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23:57:13	n1s	jhMikeS: wow, lot's of rework done to the si4700 driver. The scanning seems to work well for me :)

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