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#rockbox log for 2009-01-06

00:00:17MarcGuaylinuxstb: I believe an old bootloader is available in the installation wiki page.
00:02:08linuxstbBagder: I agree it's just a few little things that need fixing, but I think that "supported" status should mean that the port (which includes peripheral things like installation tools and documentation) has reached a "ready for end-users" state.
00:02:58Bagdermaybe we should make a checklist for this
00:03:11 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:03:58 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
00:04:39 Quit itcheg (" ajax IRC Client")
00:05:03 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:05:14linuxstbIMO, it's simply "1) Install instructions for the three major OSes (Windows/Linux/OS X); 2) Binary bootloader release on the download servers; 3) Binaries of any installation tools also on the download servers. I'm not sure whether to go as far as requiring a manual...
00:06:28BagderI figure "0) most of the core Rockbox functions and plugins working reliably" should be there too ;-)
00:07:13 Join Willwolfe [0] (
00:07:16linuxstbMarcGuay: I think you simply need to revert your commit. If a file only contains ASCII characters, then "ANSI" and "UTF-8" encodings of it are identical, so there was nothing to do.
00:08:02MarcGuayOkay, that makes sense to me.
00:09:10linuxstbBagder: If you insist ;) But no-one seems to be arguing about that for the beast.
00:09:19Unhelpfulok. the resizer can still go in pluginlib. the boosts for the scaler can be placed around the call to it, in the loader, rather than in the scaler itself.
00:09:29Bagdernah, it was mostly to make it a complete checklist
00:09:46kugelZagor: I put the new patch up, I hope it
00:09:49kugelit's good
00:10:23 Quit solexx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:10:37linuxstbBagder: Yes, I agree it needs adding to the list.
00:10:52kugellinuxstb: I think we should add rbutil to that list, it's part of it now
00:11:13 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:11:48linuxstbkugel: I think that's "nice to have, but not required". e.g. the e200R doesn't have rbutil support.
00:11:55Zagorkugel: excellent. I'd like to get a discussion about removing the time settings before commit though. it would clean up a lot of this even more.
00:12:14Unhelpfulhrm... it'll need a recalc_size moved back to bmp.c, and a pointer to resize_on_load to go into the output plugin on mono targets. i'm not really sure how big the size impact for these changes is until i implement :/
00:12:20kugelZagor: yea, I thought this could be done in a different patch though, it'd change actual code
00:12:32Zagorkugel: indeed
00:13:02JdGordonZagor: hey, you still having wps/statusbar issues?
00:13:36ZagorJdGordon: I'll download a new build and see
00:13:52 Quit DerDome ("Leaving.")
00:14:15JdGordonalso, can you add "release 3.0" back into the flyspray version list?
00:14:54kugelZagor: I'd also have some other ideas to clean up backlight related stuff, such as merging the identical drivers, factoring pwm fading code out into a different file (like it's done for sw fading)
00:15:03ZagorJdGordon: as opposed to version 3.0?
00:15:13kugelalso, backlight.c is a ifdef hell to me
00:15:19Bagderthe dead download mirror is being handled and should be back in a day or two (with a new IP I presume) since the previous network operator went out of business
00:16:28JdGordonZagor: "reported version" only has version 3.1 and daily build
00:17:01ZagorJdGordon: how odd
00:17:48Zagorah, fixed now. bugs cannot be filed against "past" versions, only "present".
00:18:02Zagorumm, do we really want new bugs against 3.0?
00:18:27BagderZagor: don't you think 3.0 users will just mislabel the reports if 3.0 is not present?
00:18:28JdGordonno, but old bugs saying they are version 3.1 is a bit odd
00:18:47Zagorwhat, old entries changede?
00:19:01 Join DerDome [0] (
00:19:09JdGordonhmm.. maybe im going crazy.. i thought some did
00:19:18JdGordonignore me :p
00:20:01 Join troy__ [0] (n=toppy@
00:20:01Zagorright, reverting the change
00:20:31JdGordonsorry :/
00:21:38ZagorJdGordon: statusbar seems much better now, but "cabbie default" still doesn't work. cabbie v2 does though.
00:22:09Zagorcabbie_default and rockbox_default appear not to even load
00:22:13 Join troy___ [0] (n=toppy@
00:22:25JdGordonwhat the heck is cabbie default?
00:23:09Zagorno idea :-) but at least rockbox_default came from the zip
00:23:18JdGordonok, checking
00:24:02 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:24:16JdGordonmake install missed a font!
00:24:35JdGordonis 08-Schumacher-Clean.fnt in the zip?
00:24:58JdGordonthat could explain it then
00:25:04JdGordonwonder how that broke though
00:26:12Zagormuh, rockbox_default.wps is empty. no wonder I get the built-in wps then...
00:26:36Zagorso apparently only my setting changed for some reason
00:26:37linuxstbMarcGuay: Did you revert the right commit? I think you reverted both 19687 and 19688.
00:27:06Zagor...which was good, because otherwise I wouldn't have spotted the statusbar issue
00:27:07MarcGuaylinuxstb: I wanted to start fresh. :)
00:27:23MarcGuayAnd then proceded to almost botch it again. I'm feeling half-witted tonight.
00:27:28linuxstbBagder: (or anyone...) Can you think of anywhere where our "What makes a supported target" list can go?
00:27:42JdGordonZagor: its supposed to be empty... its a filename placeholder (so the inbuilt one can load)
00:27:42kugelJdGordon: 08-schumacher is sysfont
00:27:55JdGordonkugel: no its not...
00:28:00MarcGuayFor some reason whenever I re-save the file it adds a BOM and "No newline" at the bottom...
00:28:02JdGordonsysfont is built from that..
00:28:06*linuxstb considers TargetStatus
00:28:19linuxstbMarcGuay: Save it as "ANSI" or "iso-8859-1"
00:28:22kugelit's the same font, that's what I mean
00:28:43kugelmaybe it's omitted on purpose, to use the build in one
00:29:02MarcGuaylinuxstb: Does that mean the instructions in the wiki that it _must_ be UTF-8 are outdated or there's something I don't understand?
00:29:45kugelMarcGuay: no editor that can explicitly handle bom?
00:30:33linuxstbMarcGuay: The problem isn't utf-8, it's your editor adding the BOM and removing the last newline. My suggestion was a workaround that works because the file is ASCII (in which case utf-8 and iso-8859-1 are identical).
00:30:58Zagorkugel: I wouldn't call backlight.c ifdef hell. it has a lot of them but not in a complex way, and splitting the code into many files won't make it more readable.
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00:31:41ZagorI do wonder about the sanity of BACKLIGHT_FADE_BOOST though...
00:31:53kugelI think algorithms are better to understand if they're in an extra file
00:32:07linuxstbBagder: It seems TargetStatus already has some criteria for calling a target "supported" - in the Introduction.
00:32:22linuxstbs/Introduction/ Current status of supported targets/
00:33:05kugelcurrent svn is broken for the clip?
00:33:16Zagorkugel: yes, it needs 9703 to play
00:33:24kugelit doesn't even boot here
00:33:40kugelI already patched with 9703
00:33:42MarcGuaySorry people, that wasn't supposed to go through. Fark.
00:33:54kugelbut I get panic: DATA TIMEOUT as soon as I see some rockbox
00:34:22ZagorI'll try the latest
00:34:38 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:34:52kugeltell me which you're running first
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00:36:05Zagorkugel: 19634
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00:37:29JdGordonZagor: even with the missing font, the wps dispays fine in the zim
00:38:34 Part Aurix_Lexico
00:39:01ZagorJdGordon: yes that's what I meant. somehow I got rockbox_default as my wps without me realizing it. probably there never was a bug in wps handling.
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00:39:32JdGordonhehe ok
00:39:32ZagorI foolishly never tried reloading the cabbie wps :-(
00:40:34WillwolfeMy daughter is running rockbox on her clip thanks to dev help. It still panics and shuts down when starting music with button lights on.
00:40:45WillwolfeFM radio works fine and she is able to play stars while listening without problems.
00:41:38 Part akur1
00:41:40ZagorWillwolfe: clip playback is broken in svn. you need FS #9703 for it to work, and even then it's a bit glitchy.
00:41:51WillwolfeI have installed the buffering patch and the fm radio patch.
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00:42:45kugelZagor: which bootloader revision? r19634 still doesn't work
00:43:03kugelthe bootloader is broken it seems
00:43:13Zagorkugel: uh, that's not easy to see.
00:44:05ZagorWillwolfe: is "the buffering patch" FS #9332 ?
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00:47:19WillwolfeZagor: yes buffering_flash_v4.patch
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00:48:28ZagorWillwolfe: try FS #9703 instead and see if you get any further
00:49:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:49:55WillwolfeShould I use the v3 patch
00:50:21ZagorWillwolfe: no, try this instead:
00:50:33kugelZagor: the transfer is not so fast ;)
00:51:11Zagorkugel: :-) I'll just compress it first
00:51:19WillwolfeYes. I meant the watermark3.patch, sorry
00:51:35ZagorWillwolfe: yes, use the latest
00:52:10WillwolfeI'll give it a try.
00:52:34*MarcGuay apologizes, he's struggling to fix that error and hopes it doesn't crush voices....
00:56:15*linuxstb updates TargetStatus with some more explicit criteria for "supported" status
00:57:08JdGordonwe need a better word than supported
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00:57:58linuxstbZagor: As Bagder has left, would you be able to run whatever magic script is needed to update the website if I committed the reverting of the S's "supported" status?
00:58:38linuxstbJdGordon: Maybe we simply stop using it, and ports get added to the front page when they are included in a release.
00:58:47linuxstbi.e. we just call them "released"
00:59:02 Quit domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:59:13JdGordon"released", "in development" and "no code.. stop hassling us about it"
00:59:23linuxstbSounds about right.
01:00:31WillwolfeI guess beta and alpha are overused?
01:00:50JdGordonbtw, I disagree with reverting the beasts "supported" status... if its just manual and install instrctiuons that are needed
01:01:51linuxstbInstallation instructions are pretty important. Plus there is no bootloader download, or installation tool binaries.
01:02:52JdGordonis it just a matter of compiling and uploading them?
01:03:00Zagorlinuxstb: yup I can do that
01:04:09linuxstbJdGordon: And testing, and tagging in SVN, and documenting their use...
01:04:41linuxstbJdGordon: I agree it's not that much to do, but it should be done first.
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01:10:54linuxstbZagor: Thanks - changes committed.
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01:12:18Zagorlinuxstb: web updated
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01:13:03linuxstbZagor: Thanks.
01:14:17*linuxstb looks at the Windows version of sendfirm in utils/MTP/, and wonders about the GPL issues of linking to a binary DLL...
01:15:19Zagorwhere does that dll come from?
01:16:05gregoroviusi've a small question: I noticed the ipod's original firmware doens't seem to turn off, it goes into a sort of sleep mode, where it wakes up very quickly. turning off auto-shutdown on rockbox, without playing audio, resulted in a 25% battery use overnight. is apple doing some voodoo we don't know about?
01:16:16linuxstbAh, it may be built from the source there...
01:17:35linuxstbHmm, but to build that dll, you need a .lib from a MS SDK.
01:17:36Zagorgregorovius: letting rockbox run, even idle, overnight is very far from putting it to sleep
01:18:01*linuxstb looks around for mcuelenaere
01:18:06gregoroviusoh, I know, but I mean, rockbox doesn't have a sleep mode I know of
01:18:20Zagorgregorovius: no, we shut down and save even more battery
01:18:34gregoroviusit starts up quite fast, otoh, but I wonder why there isn't a sleep mode available
01:18:52Zagorgregorovius: because sleeping uses battery
01:18:53gregoroviusi'd rather have it use a little battery and start up instantly, if there was an option
01:19:53gregoroviusof course having a real shutdown option is great for extended periods of time, but if it's for a short period of time, then having to wait for bootup is a lil annoying
01:20:08Zagorhow long does your boot take?
01:20:52kugelok, formatting helped
01:21:03linuxstbgregorovius: Implementing a sleep mode has been discussed, but no-one seems interested enough in the few seconds saved when booting to do the work.
01:21:45Unhelpfulit's on the order of roughly 10s or so, on beast... but perhaps launching OF from the bootloader instead of vice-versa would make a large difference in that.
01:21:58Unhelpfuli've tried setting it up non-dual-boot, and boot time is much faster that way
01:22:23gregoroviusstraight to rockbox, you mean?
01:22:58Unhelpfulgregorovius: the dual-boot rockbox bootloader is launched on beast after much of the OF startup has happened
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01:23:26Unhelpfuli guess that's where it was possible to inject new code while still keeping the OF intact... but that's how it is
01:23:40gregoroviusi see
01:25:56gregoroviuswell, in any case, hopefully somebody can implement a proper sleep mode someday =)
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01:28:58WillwolfeZagor: Re Clip. Still get a crash with fs#9703 applied. Didn't seem to make a big difference. Crashes on trying to save FM presetss after scanning.
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01:29:36ZagorWillwolfe: ok, sounds like the storage driver problem then. thanks for testing.
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01:34:03kugelZagor: that's probably just the "standard" sd panic
01:34:32kugelsince your sys_reboot commit, the ams sansans tend to reboot instead of staying in the panic
01:36:16Zagorah yes, we don't have a button check in panic.c
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01:41:38kugelZagor: my clip is basically rebooting every 5s here
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01:41:56Zagorkugel: from the sd panic?
01:42:37linuxstbMarcGuay: Sorry to say your commit was the same as the earlier ones - there's a BOM and no newline at the end of the file... Would you like me to fix?
01:42:52kugelZagor: yea
01:43:05kugelsometimes it's unhandled irq INT_WATCHDOG
01:43:16kugeland I don't do any filesystem access, just staying in the main menu
01:43:30Zagorkugel: wow. how much data did you copy to it?
01:43:39ZagorI don't get the sd crash very often at all.
01:44:17Zagorah, then you're pushing the limit. I only have 100MB or so on mine.
01:44:36kugelthere's a limit?
01:44:46kugeland why does it panic without me doing something?
01:45:08Zagordidn't you say access close to or above 2GB was the problem?
01:45:55Willwolfekugel: Have you tried to shut down, leave for about 10 seconds(I assume this is the memory clearing) and then restarting Rockbox.
01:46:19kugelZagor: only on >2GB devices
01:46:30kugelI haven't heard about such a problem on a clip
01:46:30Zagorkugel: ah
01:46:54LambdaCalculus37Why am I getting conflicts in svn updating apps/plugins/rockblox.c and apps/plugins/solitaire.c?
01:47:11kugelalso, that problem doesn't result in a panic, just data garbage (or not even booting rockbox if it happens to be in the past 1GB area)
01:48:19Zagorthen I misunderstood the issue. it hasn't bitten me enough to make me focus on it.
01:49:14kugelhm, seems to be better now
01:49:27kugelno panic since a few minutes, even with playing music
01:52:25 Quit culture (Connection timed out)
01:52:38kugelZagor: I'm not getting any useful sound out of my mp3s
01:52:48kugelonly loud hissing
01:53:01kugelwhich I also had with the flac on my fuze
01:53:44kugelI tried several
01:53:50kugelmight it be related to tags?
01:53:57kugelor vbr
01:54:19Zagorno idea. I've never seen (heard) it myself. vbr plays fine here.
01:54:32WillwolfeMy 320 kbps mp3's seem to play better than the 192 kbps.
01:54:49kugelnone of my mp3s work
01:55:26kugelthey sound like radio if you didn't tune in a station
02:03:29XavierGrI don't understand what is wrong with having official built builds on the Rockbox site even if the beast is not completely supported
02:03:55XavierGrthat way the few users that have a rockboxed beast wouldn't have to compile their own build
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02:10:57linuxstbXavierGr: They have been built for a long time - the download link is on the GigabeatSInstallation page.
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02:12:35XavierGrok thanks, it would be nice though to add a "yet" after the "not the S series" because right now it sounds like rockbox doesn't run at all on the S
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02:14:06linuxstbHopefully we can fix the remaining things to do and include the S...
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02:16:15*linuxstb is currently looking at the manual, but is confused by the lack of similarity between manual action definitions and the actual keymaps...
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02:27:42WillwolfeI reverted to my earlier build without the watermark3.patch and my clip does not crash when saving settings now at least.
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02:33:39linuxstbpixelma: ping
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02:49:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:52:47WillwolfeThis clip is acting strange. Reinstalled the same build I had earlier. It is much more stable now. Can it be the way the files are copied to the player. It never made a difference with my Gigabeat F.
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02:58:34WillwolfeI am using Version: r19666M-090104 with a bootloader bin file made from firmware upgrade m300a.bin.
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03:11:32MarcGuaylinuxstb: Hi there, not sure if you're still around. I just finished supper. I was having a hell of a time trying to revert that last accidental "change". If you wouldn't mind guiding me through a fix, or if you would prefer to simply do it yourself, I would appreciate it.
03:12:48linuxstbMarcGuay: Yes, I'm around.
03:12:56linuxstbWhat editor are you using?
03:14:43linuxstbGoogle tells me that when you select the format of a file in Notepad++, there is a "UTF-8 without BOM" option. Do you see that?
03:16:07linuxstbThen just using that for the lang files should be better. I don't know why it's removing newlines at the end of the file though - can you try just adding one?
03:16:35linuxstbIf you then do "svn diff english.lang", you should see a preview of what you are going to commit.
03:16:53MarcGuayI think my local tree is a bit botched and I'm trying to preserve some changes I made to the c100 port (which aren't showing up in "svn diff")....
03:17:51linuxstbThat shouldn't affect it - just use svn with "english.lang".
03:19:12MarcGuayOkay I fixed it up a bit. The diff looks like it's changing the first line (removing the BOM, I presume) and moving the </phrase> until after the "no new line" message..
03:19:20 Part Krisinu
03:19:51MarcGuayRemoving the forced last new line leaves the diff as just changing the first line.
03:20:24MarcGuayErr. That's not clear. If I remove the last line-feed from english.lang and do a diff, the only change is the first line.
03:21:34linuxstbMarcGuay: The first thing you did sounded right. This is what I get as a diff -
03:22:05linuxstb(pastebin stripped out the BOM characters though, but you get the idea...)
03:22:33MarcGuaySo that's what we're aiming for? Is the "'\no newline" supposed to be present?
03:23:06linuxstbYes, it will be present in the diff, after the "- </phrase>" - to indicate that the old version of the file had no newline
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03:24:57MarcGuaylinuxstb: Crud. I'm getting a "remains in conflict" error when I try to commit.
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03:25:38MarcGuayI tried to abort my last one, I'm wondering if it corrupted something.
03:26:02linuxstbI would just delete english.lang and do "svn update" in apps/lang/
03:26:12linuxstb...and start again.
03:26:47MarcGuaySmart, thanks.
03:27:15linuxstbThere's probably a better way, but that works for me.
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03:28:56MarcGuayOkay, let's see if that worked... Fingers-crossed..
03:29:08 Part toffe82
03:29:27*LambdaCalculus37 is rewiriting the blind descriptions for the H100 and H300
03:29:48*MarcGuay has been wanting some time to rewrite the blind FAQ forever...
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03:31:52LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: The descriptions in the manual need a serious reworking anyway.
03:32:47MarcGuaylinuxstb: Does it seem to have worked?
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03:36:42linuxstbMarcGuay: Looks perfect to me.
03:37:55MarcGuaylinuxstb: I really appreciate your help. I'm going to continue messing around with the telechips NAND driver on the c100v1 in the next couple of days and may come crawling for assistance... :)
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03:48:04bigbluesdcan i ask a stupid question that i'm pretty sure i already know the answer to?
03:48:11UnhelpfulMarcGuay: get that commit reverted?
03:48:40bigbluesdis there any extension or anything to make rockbox work with ipod-enabled devices? like a head unit in a car stereo that has ipod controls built in?
03:48:43MarcGuayUnhelpful: Finalement, oui. Now I'm trying to figure out how to get it to voice the new string...
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03:49:44MarcGuaybigbluesd: Some work, some don't. Check the wiki for ones that have been tested and reported on.
03:49:51bigbluesdk, thanks
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03:50:06Unhelpfulthe only way i've ever known to revert a change was to use svn diff to make a reverse patch for it...
03:50:28MarcGuayUnhelpful: I tried that and got myself into a big mess very quickly.
03:51:31*linuxstb reads a Gigabeat S manual
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03:52:33LambdaCalculus37All right, I got a better blind description done for the H100, which needed it the most.
03:56:21LambdaCalculus37Here's what I have:
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04:35:13UnhelpfulZagor: whenever you're around, i have a number. passing a resize function in the format plugin, and putting recalc_size and support code for the scaler in core, costs another 576B.
04:36:43Unhelpfuli think that maybe if #define corefunc rb->corefunc can work, instead of the API macro, that it's probably worth having the scaler only supported in pluginlib... but i'll leave things alone until i hear from some more devs about it.
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04:57:03kravlinhello. I was reading up on rockbox before purchasing my next mp3 player. I saw that you had no plans to support zune any time soon through the email logs. has that changed?
04:57:42krazykitno ports are planned. interested owners need to do the (very hard) work themselves
04:57:50Unhelpfulnobody knows any way to get it to run custom code, last i heard.
04:58:22kravlinI really wish that my gigabeat hadn't failed on me.
04:59:51kravlinis there any information on a starting place to get rockbox onto a zune? i'm trying to find a way out of justifying buying an ipod for rockbox.
05:00:25krazykitthe information would be on the wiki or the New Ports forum, what little there is
05:00:34kravlinok. thanks
05:00:57advcomp2019kravlin, why not another gigabeat or repair your old one
05:02:59kravlinadvcomp2019: I'm in a time crunch and my old one failed several times, i've fixed every problem but the audio jack which they epoxied on. i'm not horribly good at playing with circut boards yet so i'm not sure how to deal with the epoxy.
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05:04:25advcomp2019kravlin, o ok
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05:05:53kravlinplus it actually sounds like working on a zune port would be a good project in school. We're learning c++ and assembly in classes and this would give me a good reason to study.
05:05:58Unhelpfulkravlin: new board probably the best way?
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05:07:59advcomp2019yea since you are in a crunch of time, you might have to wait to get some since you have to get them off of ebay any way
05:09:42unstablekravlin: Buy the Sansa e280 v2.
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05:10:33gregoroviusi was thinking today, if a zune or ipod classic port doesn't happen in some time, eventually there'll be no HD-based player to run rockbox on
05:10:54unstable$70 USD brand new, 8 gig flash onboard. Another $20 bucks, you can get 8 gig microsdhc, so you'll have a 16gig flash storage, audio, video, fm, and voice recorder, for only $90 USD
05:11:07Unhelpfulgregorovius: needs a microsd->ata adapter ;)
05:11:33gregoroviusand some duct tape to keep it all together, yeah
05:12:37gregoroviusI don't know how big is the pool of old ipods and gigabeats, but my guess is it's not too deep
05:13:32Unhelpfulbeasts die (fixably) quite easily. i've already got everything but a motherboard left if this one fails for real.
05:14:43kravlini think i'll grab a zune and try to play around with porting it. it'll give me something to keep me occupied on the class when taking my assembly/c++ class
05:15:52advcomp2019you know rockbox is c not c++?
05:16:07kravlinunstable" how is the Sansa e280 v2?
05:16:22kravlineven better. I've had some c.
05:16:32kravlinyay for being a fledgling CS major.
05:20:02kravlini think i'll work on the zune port if possible instead. sounds like more fun
05:20:14kravlinanyways. laptop battery is about to die.
05:20:22kravlinso thanks for all the help.
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07:24:15spasticteapotCan anyone here recommend a good music player/manager for use with a Rockbox'd ipod?
07:24:21spasticteapotI'd like to move playlists and such.
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08:42:02*lucent svn 'up's
08:42:49*GodEater_ git pull's
08:43:15lucentdammit "Hehe. Broke it already in last-second sanitation. Put some bits back." jethead71... lame commit message. Should have at least referenced a SVN revision where he "Broke it"
08:44:56lucentgoing to try and test some things as kugel asked me.. it's been a week or two since I looked at rockbox
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08:59:27Willwolfelucent: and what will you be testing on?
09:02:56WillwolfeGood luck.
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09:03:01lucentWillwolfe: was asked to look for graphics corruption on the 8GB Fuze
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09:24:30lucentFS #9647 need a commit sponsor
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09:33:06lucentscorche: hey, I'm looking for a commit sponsor, FS #9647
09:35:31scorchelucent: sorry...just got home from vacation...lots of stuff to do =)
09:35:51lucentno worries
09:36:04lucentit wasn't applied 'cause of the freeze, but freeze is over
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09:40:08lucentscorche: who else might be around that I should ask?
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10:23:56lucentkugel: hey, I'm testing now
10:24:13lucentkugel: there's a weird button behavior, I don't understand yet
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10:24:35lucentwheel works really nice though
10:24:38*lucent :)
10:28:06kugellucent: hi!!
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10:28:17kugelyour clip arrived, thanks a lot
10:28:26lucentkugel: glad you did receive it finally
10:28:46lucentkugel: oh and my microSD card sort of works on the 8GB fuze, or at least it is today
10:28:48kugelI had a bit of trouble though (but that's off topic)
10:28:54kugelwhat weird button behavior?
10:29:10kugeloh that's nice
10:29:13lucentoh hum, let me describe it. It will take a minute to type accurately
10:29:57lucentSystem Menu > Plugins > Games > Bubbles > Start New Game
10:30:22lucentit returns immediately to the Bubbles plugin's menu where Start New Game is listed
10:30:57lucentthis also happens when I try to browse music files, if I enter a directory which contains files, it "goes back" after a short pause
10:31:06lucentI think it must be a button issue
10:31:25kugellucent: doesn't happen here
10:31:47kugeleven though bubbles doesn't work at all
10:31:57kugelbut doesnt kick me out at least ;)
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10:32:17lucentyeah it does not let me keep the in-game screen
10:32:20lucentit goes back
10:34:38kugellucent: do you have any patches applied?
10:34:46lucentnone that affect code
10:34:55lucentonly an unrelated patch to
10:35:51lucentI'm running with svn trunk r19697
10:36:31lucentwow... I can't believe that microSD works now
10:36:45kugelno idea then, it works (sort of) here
10:37:03lucentI'm curious to know which changes affect it for 8GB fuze
10:37:11kugellucent: do you weird background picture pixel bugs?
10:37:35lucentoh hm, yeah now that you mention it, I thought it was LCD physical problem
10:37:39lucentlike a bad pixel
10:37:56lucentit's two "dotted lines" on a diagonal
10:38:17kugelyes, and in the wps too? like here
10:38:41lucentyes that, but more
10:38:45kugelno, it's not a physical problem, but yet it seems to be fuze-only
10:38:45lucentmaybe my LCD is bad
10:38:51lucentlet me try OF
10:39:20kugellucent: more? can you make a screendump?
10:39:32lucentok I will do that
10:40:41lucenthow do I use screendump? I enable it from debug menu then what do I do?
10:44:58lucentah, very nice
10:46:15lucentkugel: my screenshot confirms the "weird color line" on the top? of the display, but does not contain the pixel artifacts I see on my physical display
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10:51:22kugellucent: really? are those also in the of?
10:51:34lucentno artifacts in the OF
10:51:59lucentI don't have a test mode for the OF though so I'm not 100% sure it isn't a defective LCD
10:52:10lucentbut it's a bit odd because of the distribution
10:53:32kugellucent: just upload a firmware named fuzet.bin, so you get the test mode
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11:01:13lucentkugel: the LCD passes the OF testmode test
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11:04:07kugelhm, weird
11:05:08lucentkugel: the wrong-pixels are limited to drawing of the background image
11:05:35lucentany other full-screen mode is working great
11:06:32kugelyea, I've noticed that too
11:07:00kugelwell, not exactly, the progressbar is also not correct
11:10:48n1spixelma: what do you think about adding "reset holes" and battery switches to the player images in the manuals?
11:14:36lucentkugel: what button press "cancels" a menu like System > Debug > Time & Date such that it would return to System > Debug menu?
11:16:41lucentkugel: my guess is that my power button press is being triggered in error
11:16:44lucentor something
11:16:54lucenthas power button detection changed?
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11:32:35n1sjhMikeS: ping
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11:44:19n1samiconn: is it true that the battery capacity setting has no effect on charging for any of the archos targets, thinking of the one with sw charging (fm recorder?)
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12:02:03linuxstbHas anyone tested the NK.bin from the Gigabeat S Toshiba updater that toffe42 found?
12:02:26n1si think toffe did, should be in the logs
12:03:11n1slinuxstb: i'm working a bit on the beast manual, do you know if the battery capacity setting has any effect on the charging on the beast?
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12:13:35linuxstbn1s: No, I've no idea. Will you be looking at the install section, or are you working elsewhere?
12:15:04n1smostly a bunch of random fixes, din't touch the installation yet as i'm not sure the current way is the way we will use. There was talk about making a different kind of bootloader that loads an unmodified nk.bin if we want to start the OF for example
12:16:18linuxstbBagder: The Gigabeast manual is now building again - can you include it in the daily builds? I think it used to be included, as there was a link from the GigabeatSInstallation page -
12:16:31n1sAnd should we describe the steps to acquire the nk.bin or make a tool/script that does it?
12:17:20linuxstbI'm thinking about the same thing. I think for now we can just document it - writing a cross-platform tool/script isn't trivial.
12:18:15n1sand how about the messing about with fdisk to make linux mount the partitions? And how does this work in OSX?
12:19:06linuxstbI'm thinking about writing a "beastpatcher" - to incorporate the sendfirm function, and then do the cleanup (including saratoga's method of recovering the nk.bin).
12:20:27n1sthat sounds good
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12:20:58n1sWe will need to tell the users what to do if the nk.bin recovery fails though
12:20:59linuxstbAlthough I'm unsure if that could ever be incorporated into rbutil - the windows sendfirm uses a closed source MTP library...
12:21:40n1soh, bad
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12:23:15linuxstbBut I'm not sure if I'll have time to do that immediately, so maybe best to just document the current install method, so we can call it "supported".
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13:00:00amiconnn1s: The only archos with software controlled charging is the recorder v1 - and the battery capacity setting does have an effect there.
13:00:15amiconnIt controls the charging safety timeout
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13:39:17Bagderlinuxstb: beast manuals added to the daily build series, but I can't recall them ever having been in there before...
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13:49:44Casainhohello :-) - Can someone please tell me what menas "stride" on lcd-target.c, lcd_blit_yuv() function?
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13:59:31kadobanCasainho: it should be the 'width' of the buffer (that's what it means in blitting functions elsewhere, never used it in rockbox)
14:00:35Casainhokadoban: Thanks :-) −− and, do you know what the function "lcd_blit_yuv()" do? why it's needed?
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14:01:36kadobanCasainho: what do you mean? it should be for if you have a bitmap in the right format and want to put it on the screen, i believe
14:01:46CasainhoI understand what "lcd_update_rect()" does, I think it draw a rectangle on LCD display...
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14:02:23kadobanrockbox uses a doublebuffering scheme, so when you draw things they don't actually go directly to the screen
14:02:35Casainhohmmm, I tought that frame_buffer were on RGB, or no? I am a bit lost :-)
14:02:37kadobanlcd_update_rect() tells rockbox to copy from the backbuffer to the actual screen
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14:03:05kadobani don't really know much about the pixel formats (and i forget what yuv is :P)
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14:03:58Casainhoso, lcd_update_rect() should be called when we want to put the frame_buffer?
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14:04:44kadobanyou do whatever drawing you want to do (draw lines, write text, blit stuff, etc.) and then call lcd_update_rect() or actually i normally just use lcd_update() i believe, which just does the whole screen
14:05:24kadobanso, yes
14:05:27Casainhoand my LCD is RGB 12 bits... I don't understand why the YUV... :-)
14:06:08kadobani'd recommend looking at some of the simple plugins until you find one that uses that function, see what it's doing
14:06:19Casainhoso, you draw the information in what frame_buffer?
14:06:29domonokyCasainho: as far as i know lcd_blit_yuv is only used for the mpegplayer...
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14:07:09domonokyCasainho: so for the start lcd_update and lcd_update_rect should be enough...
14:07:17kadobanCasainho: you don't have a choice of what frame buffer i don't believe. all of the normal drawing functions go to one frame buffer, and then when you're finished you call the update functions
14:07:32Casainhoah, so /* Performance function to blit a YUV bitmap directly to the LCD */ - there i need to convert YUV to RGB of my LCD, I think.
14:07:50domonokylcd_update() copies the rockbox framebuffer to the lcd..
14:07:58Casainhokadoban: thanks :-)
14:09:04kadobanCasainho: no problem :)
14:09:48Casainhook, so I get the address of frame_buffer by using the "&lcd_framebuffer[y][x]". But, how do I know how data is organized on that frame_beffer, is there any documentation?
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14:11:52domonokyCasainho: the pixelformat of the framebuffer is defined in your config-<traget>.h file...
14:12:26Casainhoah, nice then ;-)
14:12:46Casainhoso, I think I understand now all for I make the drivers ;-)
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14:13:13Casainhothank you and I will share all this information with others developers at our project ;-)
14:16:59linuxstbBagder: Thanks. I guess I need to wait until tomorrow for it to appear?
14:19:39linuxstbCasainho: If your LCD is 12-bit RGB, then you have work to do - Rockbox only has support for 16-bit RGB LCDs. i.e. the framebuffer in RAM that Rockbox draws into is in RGB565 format.
14:20:09 Quit bmbl (Connection timed out)
14:20:10linuxstbSo you can either implement a 12-bit RGB driver, or convert from RGB565 to RGB444 when copying that framebuffer to the LCD.
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14:25:15Casainholinuxstb: thanks ;-) −− I will record this information for when we will work on it :-)
14:26:30linuxstbjhMikeS: Would you like to make a gigabeast bootloader release?
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14:30:09n1samiconn: that means that the manual lies about that setting for the recorder v1...
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14:33:04*n1s suspects this setting has some kind of effect on the beast charging too but would like confirmation
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14:35:53linuxstbn1s: What do you think about renaming the Rockbox bootloader nk.bin to something else? This should make the install instructions less confusing.
14:36:03linuxstb(for when dual-boot is added)
14:36:35linuxstbMaybe bootloader-nk.bin ?
14:36:36Unhelpfuli believe when built it is named "bootloader.bin"
14:37:01linuxstbYes, but then a nk.bin containing it is created as well.
14:37:14linuxstbi.e. a single-boot image with no Toshiba code.
14:38:00linuxstbAll bootloaders result in a "bootloader.bin", which is then converted to a target-specific format.
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14:39:43domonokyhow is the gigabeast bootloader install going ? do we have a working procedure for all plattforms (win/lin/mac) ? (thinking about rbutil integration)
14:40:17linuxstbIt required uploading a file using MTP
14:41:03linuxstbWe have a "sendfirm" utility in SVN for this - a Unix version using libmtp that works on Linux/OSX and a Windows version which unfortunately seems to link to a binary MTP lib from Microsoft...
14:41:16linuxstb(if I'm understanding the Windows version correctly)
14:42:19domonokyif this microsoft MTP lib is redistributional, i dont think its a problem.. how about macosX ?
14:43:07BigBambin1s: I'm not sure it does - I believe the timeout is 3 hours whatever
14:43:45BigBambiBut of course, jhMikeS is the chap to verify :)
14:45:03domonokyhm, maybe rbutil needs some restructuring to suppport the gigabeast, as you can not select a device location for the first install... :-/
14:47:31BigBambiThat is true. Maybe if you select gigabeat S it then ignores the location, then after the bootloader install it autodetects?
14:48:30BigBambiAs you can select just a device now, you just have to click through a warning then cancel it when it brings up the device/mount point dialogue again
14:48:47BigBambiSo if you select beast it doesn't do the complaining/reselecting?
14:49:26domonokycould be possible.. but i dont really want to litter rbutil with special cases for different devices :-)
14:50:04BigBambiSure, but how else would you approach it?
14:50:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:50:58domonokydont know, but maybe i get a better idea :-)
14:51:07BigBambiI'm thinking of from a user point of view incidently, I don't have much idea from the oding point of view :)
14:53:24domonokyhm, is the usb-id of a beast in rockbox USB mode different then the MTP Id ?
14:54:15domonokyif so, autodetection could detect a beast in MTP mode, and offer to install the bootloader directly.
14:55:46BigBambiI can't check I'm afraid, as I don't have the OF on my beast
14:56:15BigBambiI can't rememeber if putting it back would wipe the beast
14:56:32domonokywhat is the usb id in UMS on beast ? the MTP id is already in the DeviceDetection wikipage.
14:57:58BigBambiI'll check, one mo
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14:59:25BigBambidomonoky: hmmm - lsusb gives ID 0930:0010 Toshiba Corp. Gigabeat S (mtp)
15:00:09domonokyis that mtp or UMS ?
15:00:47n1slinuxstb: yes, the naming is certainly confusing
15:01:00BigBambidomonoky: That is Rockbox USB
15:01:13domonokyah, that is the rockbox usb stack ?
15:01:33domonokywe probably just reused the usb-id... maybe we should change it :-)
15:04:52domonokyalso this partitiontable fixing thing maybe a bit nasty todo in rbutil...
15:05:41BigBambibut it is also a nasty install step to leave people
15:06:17BigBambiIs it possible on windows too - I know you don't need the fix for windows, but I don't like the idea of installing on windows meaning it doesn't work on linux
15:06:47domonokyjep, would be good to automate this. But it needs a bit work to make it reliable.
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15:17:01BarendHavengaHey Guys!
15:18:16BarendHavengaI'm hoping someone can help me get TWiki access (for the WPS pages if it makes a difference)
15:18:40BarendHavengaI've made a couple WPS themes I'd like to get up on the site.
15:21:35LambdaCalculus37What's your wiki name?
15:22:31LambdaCalculus37One sec while I give you permission.
15:23:06LambdaCalculus37All done. Promise not to spam, now. :)
15:24:08BarendHavengaPromise :)
15:24:10BarendHavengaThanks a bunch!
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15:29:52MarcGuayIf a new LANG_ID is appended in english.lang, does the daily english.voice file automatically generate it for us?
15:30:48MarcGuayIs it generated into english.voice, rather...
15:31:39domonokyMarcGuay: yes.
15:32:25MarcGuaydomonoky: Thanks.
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15:42:31Bagderlinuxstb: right, the manuals are built and copied to the download server once per day
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15:58:50Jaykayrasher: is there anyway to use at"> the form at the bottom with my own lang file?
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16:05:24mikeones_anyone know how to get my e280 into recovery/manufacture mode? I have tried with hold on/off, while holding the middel button/record/down button
16:05:34mikeones_I am ready to throw this thing out.
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16:06:02mikeones_It does not get reconised in windows XP or linux
16:06:28mikeones_I don't know what else to try
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16:06:34LambdaCalculus37Did you read the SansaFAQ on the wiki?
16:06:57 Quit Strife89 ("Bye.")
16:07:27mikeones_LambdaCalculus37: what spacificaly?
16:07:56linuxstbdomonoky: My point was that rbutil is GPL'd, so it can't be linked with any lib.
16:08:07LambdaCalculus37 <−− This should also work for the e200, but make sure to use e200-specific files.
16:10:40mikeones_LambdaCalculus37: none of the methods to get into recovery/manufactre mode has worked on the sansa
16:11:04linuxstbmikeones_: Is it a "v1" or "v2" e280?
16:11:19mikeones_LambdaCalculus37: it does not say so I guess v1
16:11:39BigBambiIt could be either
16:11:41linuxstbmikeones_: Do you have Rockbox installed on it?
16:11:50mikeones_yes 3.1
16:11:56BigBambithen it was v1
16:12:06LambdaCalculus37And why do you need to get into recovery mode so badly?
16:12:26mikeones_all I get is a blue ring with a black screen
16:12:32BigBambithat is it
16:12:50BigBambior manufactuing, I forget
16:13:03mikeones_I know how to get a sansa into manufacture mode because I put my wifes e260 into it last night
16:13:29mikeones_this bamm e280 just seems to be lost
16:13:29domonokylinuxstb: is this lib, the dll which is included in utils/MTP ?
16:13:56linuxstbThe lib is used to build that dll - i.e. the lib is statically linked into that dll. (IIUC)
16:14:35BigBambimikeones_: screen black with blue ring is manufacturing mode
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16:14:54domonokyhm, but if we can distribute that dll, it shouldnt be a problem to include it into rbutil...
16:15:09linuxstbHow does that follow?
16:15:15BigBambimikeones_: see
16:15:20mikeones_BigBambi: it does that when I plug it in or turn it on without holding a button ot putting it in hold mode
16:15:28linuxstbJust because a lib is distributable, doesn't make it GPL compatible.
16:15:37BigBambimikeones_: interesting
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16:16:07domonokybut its a dll, we can just load it with a lglp wrapper and stay legal i would think.
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16:17:01linuxstbI don't understand how that can be done. You're still linking with a closed-source lib, even if it's via wrappers...
16:18:00mikeones_BigBambi: I have gone over all of that. I have tried this on two diffrent linux pc's. One with usb 2.0 and anothe with 1.0
16:18:07domonokyno i link to lgpl/pd wrapper code, which is legal. and lgpl/pc code can link to proprietary code.
16:18:32linuxstbIMO, if A links to B, and B links to C, then A has linked to C...
16:18:59linuxstbEven if it's permissible under the letter of the GPL, it seems outside the spirit.
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16:20:11mikeones_I have the cover off and even tried with out the battery
16:21:06domonokyit depends a bit on how strict you interpret it. By the way: which licence is sendfirm ?
16:21:22advcomp2019mikeones_, have you tried reseating the daughter card in the sansa?
16:21:43linuxstbdomonoky: There are separate versions for Unix and Windows. They both state GPL, but I'm questioning if the windows version can be.
16:22:00domonokyrbutil could even just call a prebuilt sendfirm then we have no linking :-)
16:22:35linuxstbYes, or it simply ignores gigabeast bootloader install - and the user uses a "beastpatcher" like the e200r install
16:23:33domonokyyes, ignoring it would be the easiest way. But thats not really nice. :-)
16:24:18linuxstbNeither is polluting rbutil with binary libs...
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16:25:39domonokyfrom a users-perspective its better to pollute rbutil, than todo it by hand :-)
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16:26:52domonokythe best thing would be ofcourse to rewrite the windows version to use a gpl mtp lib. But thats a job for mr. Someone. :-)
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16:29:56mikeones_advcomp2019: no, not sure how
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16:30:34mib_dteqq4when using rockbox on an ipod video, is it possible to boot into the ipod firmware and use it like normal ?
16:30:41BigBambiyes, see the manual
16:30:42advcomp2019you need to open it to able to reseat the daughter card
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16:35:50funman!seen rockrabbit
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16:41:51FS-8806Commit me :)
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16:42:26mikeones_advcomp2019: I have the cover off and can see two black chips at the top. Do I need to pull off the face plate?
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16:44:40advcomp2019yes, you need to take the faceplate off and remove the main board to get to the daughtercard so you can remove and reseat it.. if that does not work, you need to try the e200tool since the sansa is manufacturer mode
16:46:33Jaykayrasher: ping
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16:47:24mikeones_advcomp2019: if it is in manufacture mode, non of my 3 pc's (one XP and 2 Linux) can see it
16:48:23advcomp2019windows will need a driver and on linux did you look at lsusb?
16:48:47mikeones_advcomp2019: I checked dmesg and lsusb. nothing comes up
16:49:13mikeones_advcomp2019: do you know if any pics showing how the face plate compes off?
16:50:04advcomp2019are you on an usb port straight on the computer not a usb hub? have you checked your usb cable too?
16:50:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:51:02advcomp2019the face plate has four screws under the battery cover that you remove
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16:51:27mikeones_hmm, the usb cable worked fine before this happend. I am not using a hub. Just a stright shot to the computer
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16:52:14mikeones_advcomp2019: this is a refreb. looks like they used rivits instead of screws.
16:53:01mikeones_probley cheaper and faster that way
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16:54:19advcomp2019i have not seen one of them with rivets.. so i am not sure how you would get the face off
16:58:56mikeones_advcomp2019: got it
16:59:02mikeones_waht do I reseat now?
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16:59:56mikeones_hmm, I pulled the metal plate benith the battery
17:00:01mikeones_not the fron cover
17:01:25advcomp2019that is not it.. sounds like you have a different issue if you can not see it in lsusb
17:02:56mikeones_after I yanked it appart
17:03:11mikeones_advcomp2019: what do you think? trash it?
17:03:12 Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection)
17:04:13advcomp2019i am not sure it is trash but not sure what is going on too
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17:18:05Lartza_does rockbox drain battery faster than official firmwares? I have noticed this behavior with 3G and 5.5G ipod's
17:18:38Lartza_wait it's last grayscale so 4G
17:19:13krazykitLartza_, how old of a build are you using?
17:19:51Lartza_4G newest and 5G i noticed it on older builds
17:19:55Lartza_but not too old
17:20:21BigBambiIt did on old builds for newer ipods
17:20:36BigBambiThey should be about equal now, on all other targets Rockbox is better
17:21:12Lartza_well if the battery life is one main consern of user?
17:21:30Lartza_i installed rockbox to my sister and she says it had impact on her 4G battery life
17:21:30BigBambiI don't understand that sentence
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17:21:51Lartza_and if she doesnt use other features of rockbox that much?
17:22:01BigBambiLartza_: The remaining time indicator is not always releiable. Has she acvtually measured it?
17:22:13Lartza_not really i think
17:22:43Lartza_and how does cold effect ipod?
17:22:53BigBambiUnless she does (and with the same conditions - i.e. same music, no extra equalizer on etc etc) then it is impossible to say
17:23:00Lartza_willl the battery show less capacity or have less capacity
17:23:09BigBambiyes, to an extent
17:23:24Lartza_are there any options to tune like reduce hd spinning on rockbox?
17:23:45BigBambiturn diskcache on for that, and turn the anti skip to the lowest possible
17:24:00n1syou can turn of the acessory power supply on some ipods
17:24:17Lartza_ok thanks for all this info
17:24:46BigBambidiskcache will help if you browse the music often, but will not help may be slightly worse) if she just starts music and never browses for more)
17:26:58Lartza_waht about it seemed like the ipod's hd was spinning even if rockbox was in some menu?
17:27:58BigBambiseems like or was?
17:28:03BigBambiIt should spin down
17:28:13Lartza_seems like its spinning constantly
17:28:24BigBambiunless it happened to be buffering music
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17:28:53Lartza_music on stop and pause same thing
17:29:03Lartza_hd spinning
17:29:03BigBambiwell, it doesn't spin constantly on other peoples - could you measure for low long it does, and what you are doing when it does?
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17:29:34Lartza_it stopped now
17:29:58BigBambiLartza_: I'm not saying it isn't for you incidently, I'm jut saying that it doesn't normally so we would like to find out why it is for you
17:30:26Lartza_hd spinning on menu > playback > pause > stop > hd spinning > hd stopped
17:30:40Lartza_it wasnt taht long maybe a minute on the menu or so
17:31:18BigBambiAnd had you started playing music just before?
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17:31:51Lartza_before that music was on but it spinned after music was stopepd for some time
17:32:38Lartza_maybe i(and propably my sister) need to observe thisi couple days and see waht the battery really does, is it "leaking" on rockbox
17:32:52Lartza_i tell him not to trust the battery percent :)
17:32:55BigBambiYou actually need to measure it, and properly
17:33:09BigBambihehe :)
17:33:23Lartza_vacation and after that you can't even write
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17:34:00BigBambiBut yeah, try measuring it under as close as conditions as possible to see if it is actually less, and by how much
17:34:17Lartza_fade on stop/pause might take some battery too... i really need to dig in all the options
17:34:19BigBambiAnd you need to measure the Apple firmware too to see what you get with that
17:34:39BigBambibacklight and disk access are big killers
17:34:53Lartza_the battery indicator showed under 28, then 28 and now 33 percent...
17:34:59Lartza_really not reliable
17:36:11BigBambi% should be OK
17:36:21BigBambiso that is odd
17:36:34BigBambiStill, I'd actually measure it and then we will know for sure
17:36:41Lartza_so the bar shouldnt be ok but % should?
17:37:09Lartza_ive had no luck with them also on 5.5G
17:37:15BigBambibar and % both should be, it is the time remaining that might not be (I'm not sure if it has been fixed or not)
17:37:48Lartza_whats disk spindown doing?
17:37:55BigBambithe setting?
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17:38:19BigBambiIt sets how long the disk stays spinning on becoming idle before shutting down
17:43:35linuxstbLartza_: What font do you use? Very large fonts (e.g. unifont) can cause disk spinups in the menus to read more glyphs.
17:43:58linuxstb(and do you have songs with non-latin characters?)
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17:55:26Jaykayrasher: now around?
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18:00:31Lartza_not large font, non-latin characters... i think yes
18:01:23linuxstbBy "large", I mean containing lots of characters - i.e. the filesize of the ".fnt" file.
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18:09:19linuxstbMarcGuay: Hi. I was wondering why you removed the font install instructions from the GigabeatSInstallation page, and also the link to the manual.
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18:09:45gartral1the e200s splash logo is located at /apps/bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.240x74x16.bmp right?
18:10:28linuxstbNo, the first number is the width, so the e200's will be 176xsomethingx16
18:10:28LambdaCalculus37That's the Gigabeat logo.
18:10:52gartral1ohh.. porportionaly they looked the same
18:10:56linuxstbCheck the SOURCES file in that directory
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18:20:52MarcGuayAlessio Lenzi: Thanks for putting the LANG_CREDITS in the menu.
18:21:57MarcGuaylinuxstb: It seemed to me like the beast install page was straying too far from the norm by having the usual installation instructions added there. Perhaps it was a bit hasty given that the manual wasn't available.
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18:23:39MarcGuayJaykay: Was my explanation in the tracker clear to you?
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18:29:44kugeljhMikeS: ping
18:29:47linuxstbMarcGuay: I'm thinking that as a first release, we could combine sendfirm and mknkboot into a single utility, which is either run with "sendfirm bootloader.gigabeat" to upload a single-boot firmware (bootloader.gigabeat is just the raw Rockbox bootloader), or "sendfirm nk.bin bootloader.gigabeat" which combines the two into a dual-boot firmware, then uploads it.
18:29:58linuxstbBut I don't have my beast with me this week to test such a tool...
18:31:40linuxstbWe can then release that sendfirm (maybe call this new tool something like beastpatcher) and a bootloader onto the download servers, and then add install instructions to the manual. It would then meet the "supported" criteria, even though the install is still not point-and-click.
18:31:57MarcGuaylinuxstb: That sounds like a good idea. It's a bit unfriendly as it stands now.
18:32:48MarcGuayI haven't been following very closely, but the idea is that the nk.bin can now be extracted from the device, patched, and resent?
18:33:41linuxstbThat's one solution. But toffe82 has found the official update tool on Toshiba's website, and with a bit of effort (running 7zip 3 times) the nk.bin can be extracted from that download.
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18:34:30MarcGuayProblems with that method being that the user has to acquire it themselves and that Toshiba could take it down at any time?
18:34:34BigBambiIt'd be nice to do the partition table correcting in a beast patcher too
18:34:48BigBambiMarcGuay: That is the same as e.g. the H100/H300
18:34:49linuxstbBut most of the code to implement saratoga's idea is already present in ipodpatcher/sansapatcher, so that's not a massive task.
18:35:16MarcGuayBigBambi: True enough.
18:35:17linuxstbAnd yes, once we have raw disk reading/writing of the beast's disk, we can fix the partition table.
18:35:49BigBambilinuxstb: Do you know if that is easy enough to do from windows too?
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18:36:39MarcGuaylinuxstb: Are you looking at making the supported targets table a sort of what-supported-means checklist?
18:37:38MarcGuayWe could add a "Manual" column as well. Save adding another wiki page...
18:39:00MarcGuayWow, I didn't even look at the new intro paragraph... :)
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18:42:50MarcGuayhey LambdaCalculus37, have you ever tried using the TCC NAND code on the m200v1? (I think I remember you had one of those...)
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18:46:17JaykayMarcGuay: yes, thanks (for the explanation in the tracker)
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18:47:04LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Had, yes. I gave it to shotofadds in exchange for his m200v3 (HARP).
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18:47:41linuxstbMarcGuay: Yes, a manual column could be useful. It could also be used to indicate broken manuals, when we become aware of them.
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18:52:12MarcGuaylinuxstb: So it seems that if it was decided that a proper manual isn't required to be considered supported (like the M3), then it might be wise to put those installation instructions I removed from the beast page back on it.
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18:55:29linuxstbMarcGuay: But if there is a manual, I think that's where the install instructions should go.
18:56:44MarcGuayNo doubt.
18:57:14MarcGuayAnyone know if the M3 instructions are the same as X5/M5...? They currently have none of their own.
18:57:16BigBambiThey ought to stay until there is a manual with proper instalation instructions IMO
18:58:11MarcGuayI'll put em back.
18:59:53bluebrotherI _believe_ the M3 installation is identical to the M5, though I'm not completely sure.
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19:01:04bluebrotherspeaking of installation: there is a bug in rbutil that puts the gigabeat bootloader file in the wrong location. I'm considering bumping a new rbutil for this. Or should it go as .1 release?
19:01:17domonokythe bootloader install is the same, exept the filename differs
19:02:07n1sbluebrother: any news on the windows dll problem?
19:02:08bluebrotherbut having a four numbered version number is kinda weird.
19:02:17bluebrothern1s: sure. Already fixed :)
19:02:33n1sgood :)
19:02:51amiconnlinuxstb etc: I think the partition table correction could be done on-the-fly in rockbox ums, at least if we decide to hide the firmware partition there as well
19:03:03bluebrotherthe problem is simply that I forgot to use -no-exceptions when compiling Qt −− I updated in the hope to get improved accessibility (though I haven't tested)
19:03:38amiconnMarcGuay: Yes, M3 instructions are the same as M5/X5, apart from the firmware file name
19:05:04LambdaCalculus37bluebrother: I think it should go as a .1 release.
19:05:28*bluebrother considers rbutil 1.0.9 instead ;-)
19:05:59*domonoky votes for 1.0.9, he number is already long enough
19:05:59bluebrotherwe'll never reach 2.0 if we only increment in micro steps ;)
19:06:42domonokyif it was only for windows i would make a 1.0.8b, but as the gigabeat bug affects all. i am for 1.0.9
19:06:52BigBambijust do it! :P
19:07:30amiconnGigabeat bug?
19:07:46BigBambibootloader install on the F/X (both I think) in rbutil
19:08:04bluebrotheramiconn: the bootloader file for gigabeat got placed at the wrong location (SYSTEM instead of GBSYSTEM/FWIMG)
19:08:04MarcGuayBeast manuals building again?
19:08:12BigBambi<bluebrother> speaking of installation: there is a bug in rbutil that puts the gigabeat bootloader file in the wrong location. I'm considering bumping a new rbutil for this. Or should it go as .1 release?
19:08:46amiconnFor some reason I read only part of that sentence, sorry :\
19:08:55BigBambihehe :)
19:15:22*linuxstb wonders if a Rockbox plugin to "undelete" nk.bin would be a sensible solution...
19:15:48kugelis the undeletion already proven to work?
19:15:51linuxstbIt could even then do the merging with the "single-boot" nk.bin installed by sendfirm...
19:16:35linuxstbkugel: I don't think so. It goes without saying that that needs to be confirmed first...
19:16:56linuxstbBut then we can't test it until we write a tool to do it...
19:16:56kugelyea, I just wondered if anyone already tried
19:18:20linuxstbMarcGuay: Yes, I fixed the beast manual last night.
19:19:32linuxstbdomonoky, bluebrother: BTW, why the strange "m" in front of rbutil build versions (in some places). Other places (e.g. the filenames of the downloads) use "v"...
19:20:12BigBambilinuxstb: Isn't that what saratoga planned? Send new nk.bin to delete the old, use the undelete utility, and then use recovered nk.bin to build dual boot if wanted
19:21:16bluebrotherlinuxstb: that's still historical from the "milestone 1" numbering we had when porting to Qt. But I agree that we could really drop that.
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19:22:21linuxstbBigBambi: Yes, I'm just raising the idea of doing that as a Rockbox plugin, rather than a PC app.
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19:22:43BigBambilinuxstb: Ah, right, I missed that bit
19:23:02linuxstbWe could call it something like "Enable dualboot".
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19:27:36n1slinuxstb: is there a benefit of doing it as a rockbox plugin?
19:28:20linuxstbIt's easier to write...
19:29:12linuxstbIt doesn't really belong in sendfirm, as that just deals with the beast in MTP mode.
19:30:55n1sit would be a first for a part of installation to be done on the device side (except for the flashing plugins)
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19:31:23linuxstbIt's not compulsory though - I'm happy without the beast's OF...
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19:32:57linuxstbAnd this is also the first "two-stage" bootloader install.
19:32:58*amiconn still wants that fdisk+format plugin
19:33:30n1samiconn: you'll have to remove that from the NODO list first :P
19:34:32amiconnI'm not talking about a generic one, but about one that makes the extra diskspace usable on a >128GiB disk when the usb-ata bridge doesn't support lba48
19:34:54amiconn(requires an lba48 enabled rockbox build, obviously)
19:35:59n1syes, i know what you are talking about but thought a format plugin was on the NODO but that's a "fsck" plugin
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19:37:11amiconnYeah, although lba48 rockbox with an incapable usb-ata bridge also has the problem that the extra partition cannot be fscked
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19:40:51n1s...128GiB of mp3 is a _lot_...
19:41:17n1s(yes I know you can play wav on it too! and videos but still!)
19:41:42zeif i had sufficient storage i'd probably use nothing but flac
19:42:03amiconnYou cannot use flac on an archos though
19:43:15Jaykay@ the germans here: is there any sense in translating "icons" with "sinnbilder" in a voice string?
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19:43:57amiconnIt's better than Denglish, imho
19:44:22Jaykayi never heard sinnbild before, and im german.....
19:44:41Jaykayi wouldnt know that with sinnbild icons are ment
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19:48:13pixelmawikipedia suggests "Symbol" as a translation, or "Piktogramm"
19:48:42amiconnWindows uses 'Symbol', that might be better
19:49:09pixelmaI'd prefer that too
19:49:15amiconn'Sinnbild' is not wrong as such, but might be a bit unusual
19:49:31Jaykayill use symbol in a patch, thanks
19:49:35amiconnWe should make it consistent between text and voice then
19:50:18Jaykayill replace all other icons/sinnbild with symbol too....
19:54:27bluebrother"Sinnbild" is most likely to be confusing to at least the majority ...
19:54:52amiconnIf it really were, there should have been lots of complaints
19:55:23amiconn"Sinnbilder anzeigen" is ooold... iirc it was used from the very beginning of the voice UI
19:56:01amiconn(that is, since the voice ui got multi-language support)
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19:58:08amiconnAh no, but it was introduced in April 2004
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19:58:50Jaykaywhat are independent frames, why is it translated with unab... mp3-frames and is "rahmen" instead of frame also possible?
20:00:17amiconnIndependent frames are an mp3 recording related feature
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20:01:43don903Hey, I've got rockbox on a Sansa E270 and I'm not sure what caused it but my files/folders are now listed in reverse alphabetical order. I checked the documentation but I haven't found anything about changing it back to regular (ascending) alpha order... does anyone know what I have to do?
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20:02:47amiconnUsing them means the mp3 file becomes slightly bigger, but the advantage is that you can cut such a file between 2 frames without having to fix the first frame(s) of the 2nd part (the one after the cut)
20:03:13amiconnThe option means that the so-called bit reservoir won't be used
20:04:32amiconnIirc this was originally translated as 'Rahmen' but someone decided that sticking with the english term would be better
20:05:11n1sdon903: which version of rockbox are you using?
20:05:47bertrikdon903, I'm pretty sure that's a setting somewhere, I'll have a look at my e260
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20:07:05don903n1s: "Version: r18478-080909
20:07:40n1sdon903: update then, that bug was fixed sometime after 3.0
20:07:56don903hmph :)
20:08:16Jaykayamiconn: so i can change it "back" to frame?
20:08:41Jaykayrahmen :)
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20:10:14*pixelma thought it still was "Rahmen"
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20:10:35amiconnRight now it's 'Rahmen' for voice and 'Frames' for text
20:12:17gevaertsI think a good way to evaluate this for technical things (like this one) is to check if google finds anything useful about the term.
20:13:27pixelmasvenska.lang has (had) ramar too ;)
20:13:53Jaykaygoogle says 800k results for mp3 rahmen, everything nonsense 12kk results for mp3-frame, semms to be the right.... ehm... you know.
20:14:08*n1s would have to translate that back to english in his head to know what it meant
20:14:48Jaykayill change it
20:14:57Jaykayshould i change it in svenska.lang too?
20:15:25amiconnImo it's better to use a german word when in doubt. Otherwise a german translation soon won't make sense anymore
20:16:15amiconnThere's an additional problem with having english words in german voice strings - usually german TTS engines try to pronounce those words like german, resulting in something horrible
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20:16:57amiconnThat's why 'Rahmen' is used for voice, while 'frames' is used for text. It has been like this since the beginning of german voice strings
20:17:22amiconnI agree that it isn't ideal, but then I don't have a better idea
20:17:37gevaertsamiconn: when in doubt, sure. But people are pretty likely not to know what an mpeg frame is, so they have to look it up. If that's not easy due to the chosen term, that's a problem I think
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20:18:32*gevaerts starts thinking about translating "data abort" and "stkov" :)
20:19:22Jaykayare LANG_LINE_IN and LANG_SYSFONT_LINE_IN both needed? the content is the same except in LANG_LINE_IN, it says recording,player instead of recording.....
20:19:22bertrik"gegevensafbreuk" en "stapeloverstroming" ? :P
20:19:23domonokygevaerts: thats easy: "daten abbruch" and "stapel überlauf" :-)
20:20:06amiconneurgh, deppen leer zeichen :(
20:20:13Jaykaybertrik: which language was this?
20:20:19bertrikJaykay, dutch
20:20:50Jaykayreally.... dutch is the funniest language i ever heard ;)
20:21:14gevaertsJaykay: surely that would be German? :)
20:21:34bluebrotherdomonoky: nah, that would be stpül :D
20:21:45Jaykaygevaerts: for the dutch people.... maybe
20:22:02*gevaerts isn't Dutch so he wouldn't know :)
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20:22:57Jaykayany idea to LANG_LINE_IN and LANG_SYSFONT_LINE_IN?
20:24:12pixelmathe former is still needed and the "recording,player" is right as the Player has line-in but no recording, not sure about the sysfont one
20:24:17n1sJaykay: the sysfont one is likely used somewhere where userfont can't be used so it needs to remain
20:25:07Jaykayn1s: ok.....
20:25:16sjk404Does anyone know if the ipod_accessory_protocol patch has been included in the recent builds?
20:25:41Jaykayn1s: ?why cant it be used
20:26:18n1sJaykay: some screens use the built in sysfont which is not full unicode
20:26:36pixelmaI thought most of the recording sysfont ones should be gone since the rec screen rework
20:27:07karashatasjk404, according to the forum topic's title the patch is in SVN
20:27:16n1spixelma: i'm not sure really and by the way the recsreen will fall back to sysfont if it can
20:27:30n1s't fit the display which is nasty imho
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20:28:09karashatasjk404, in fact, this message here in that topic says it's commited:
20:28:18pixelman1s: doesn't it only do this for the calculation of the peakmeter height?
20:28:55n1spixelma: they seem to only be used in the "f2" and "f3" recording screens, i assume this is something archos specific
20:29:53amiconnF2 and F3 screens are the quickscreens on archos (yes archos has two)
20:29:57pixelmaI see
20:30:29amiconnThat means mentioned screens are recording specific quickscreens. Since quickscreens now use the user font, these screens should be fairly easy to fix
20:30:45n1sand the regular screen can fall back to sysfont entirely which would break some languages quite a lot...
20:31:25*amiconn thinks it shouldn't do that
20:32:34n1samiconn: getting rid of those archos only sysfont strings would save a bit of voice file space too which would be nice
20:33:44n1samiconn: we need some kind of better font switching method to get around this nicely, and that should probably come after multifont
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20:34:47n1sbasically a screen would specify the number of lines it needed and the largest font that was small enough of a set would be loaded if the current one was too big or something
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20:37:52amiconnThe recording screen would work with just 4 lines if the monstrous peak meter would be reduced to a sane size
20:38:06amiconn4 lines is the minimum we also assume elsewhere
20:38:40n1sother screens also break with insanely huge fonts
20:39:57amiconn4 lines means a 16px font on archos with status bar and button bar disabled, a 14px font with one of them enabled, and a 12px font with both bars enabled
20:40:18amiconn(button bar only exists on recorders, not on Ondios)
20:42:14pixelmadon't forget the trigger bar when triggered recording is enabled - in which case the peakmeter is reduced to one line height IIRC
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20:42:42n1syeah, but we ship 32px fonts so it's not hard to get fewer than 2 lines
20:42:53n1ss/2 /4 /
20:44:26pixelmaI don't think someone will ever use such a big font on a small display. The only reason I imagine this would happen is on a remote since it can't have a different font than the main screen
20:44:35amiconnWith a font that huge. many screens will break
20:45:16n1syes, and that isn't very nice imho even if it's an insanely huge font
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20:47:24n1sanyway i still think proper size switching functionality would be nice
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21:02:28Jaykayrasher: ping
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21:04:12Unhelpfulamiconn: i didn't ping you for it, but putting the resizer itself in pluginlib, and passing it a core bmp loader that can calculate target size and support scaling costs 576B
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21:11:05kugelgevaerts: there're some problems in fat.c I think
21:11:10kugelmultivolume issues
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21:20:21kugelcan anyone tell me why to mess with that IF_MV all the time?
21:20:53kugelis saving a argument for some functions worth the reduced maintainability?
21:22:40Unhelpfulkugel: probably depends... if it takes you beyond being able to use register arguments... could cost you some code size.
21:24:11kugelit's basically having 2 codes instead of one
21:25:14kugelof course it will cost some code size, but that should be negligible, shouldn't it?
21:26:33Unhelpfuli believe that depends on how frequently the function is called.
21:27:38kugelit's really messy
21:27:56kugeland I just needed to fix some things in fat.c because of that
21:28:20kugelI ended up removing some #ifdef MULTIVOLUME and just having the drive arg for non-mv too
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21:33:26*kugel got a half-working sync of the rockbox-as-an-app patch
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21:51:52Jaykayis anywhere a tool existing for editing the .lang files? i.e. for changing description/source in all files
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21:56:17amiconnYou shouldn't do that in the standard case
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21:56:49amiconnIf description or source changes, that usually means the meaning has changed, and hence the translation has to be changed as well
21:57:48amiconnSo the procedure for translators uses these differences to find phrases which need attention
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22:00:10amiconnThe only exception would be typo fixes in source or description
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22:04:49Jaykaywhat does the user: field do? (in the .lang files)
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22:53:47snorkle256Hello, I have a question about using rockbox on the M:Robe. Would this allow a hard drive upgrade to a large size?
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22:58:48Aurix_Lexico1as long as the hardware itself supports it
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23:00:39snorkle256Gotcha, Well great find anyways, 1hr to mrobe rockbox installation,
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23:50:58 Join japc [0] (
23:54:06 Quit kachna (Remote closed the connection)
23:55:02 Join solexx [0] (
23:56:09 Quit AndyI ()
23:56:17 Join Lss [0] (
23:58:23 Quit solexx_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:58:24 Join kachna [0] (

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