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#rockbox log for 2009-01-16

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00:00:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:15:28kugelrasher: I posted the human sorting with settings
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00:18:58deed023oh hai guys
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01:06:13Unhelpfulamiconn: aliasing via linker script on sim is proving problematic. it's very strange, nm and gdb both show that the alias is working, and some of the plugins call via the api with apparent success, but they end up crashing later accessing other data, generally their own file-level global symbols.
01:07:49Unhelpfuli've tried just specifying a .data.header section in a linker script all by itself, i've tried adding one to a copy of either ld's reported default script or the system on for shared libraries... always the same. :/
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01:57:33saratogaZagor: my clock test is a nasty hack to codec_test because I couldn't figure out how to create a new test_plugin
01:58:27saratogai will try and clean it up when i get some free time, however you're welcome to look at it in the meantime
01:58:42Unhelpfulthere's a special way? i copied "mine" from the ppm viewer, actually...
01:59:04saratogajust run test codec on any file and it'll print out the clock speed on any armv4 system
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01:59:29saratogaUnhelpful: I couldn't get it to show up in the menus, i had little time to debug so I just hacked it into test_codec
02:00:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:01:00Unhelpfulhrm, forget to asign a category, maybe?
02:05:37 Quit gregorovius ()
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02:18:39kugelsaratoga: wait a bit with committing, I get some panic's on my clip
02:19:04kugelbut I doubt they're caused by my patch. I have problems with the filesystem on my clip anyway
02:19:08saratogakugel: I commited 2 minutes ago
02:19:23kugeleh :)
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02:19:31kugelI guess we'll see then
02:19:49saratogai tried it out on my fuze and didn't notice any differences, though i get regular reboots on it regardless so i'm not the best one to test
02:20:14kugelI fighted the last hour to get any filesystem not corrupted 5min after formatting, so it may just be my clip
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02:22:34kugelI don't get panics on the fuze
02:22:59kugelso looks like it's my clip
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02:25:15kugelthe build server doesn't seem to catch your commit
02:30:18 Quit evilnick (" Finally offski home")
02:30:47kugelyep, no panics on the fuze, no matter how hard I try.
02:31:01kugelbut my clip is quite problematic, so that doesn't suprise me a lot
02:32:46kugelsaratoga: thanks! other patches follow later today. I'm off now
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02:35:31 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
02:35:41Unhelpfulthis revision that fixed the panic-on-boot issues lucent had w/ SD doesn't by any chance change things for the bitmap load issue, does it?
02:36:53saratogai don't think it should
02:37:03saratogabut I could be wrong
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02:39:01Unhelpfulit would be nice if it did... i keep meaning to play around with shifting lines by so many bytes, to see if i can duplicate it... but i don't really feel like editing bmp files by hand :/
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02:47:27saratogaUnhelpful: i'm pretty sure there issues with at least the SD driver, if not the DRAM itself on AMS so its a little premature to assume theres a bug in your code I think
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02:48:51Unhelpfuli'm pretty sure there's not, but my code exposes the bug, and i'd like to be able to help... but i don't have the hardware-driver-writing chops for it, and i don't have a fuze, either. :)
02:49:13saratogashould pick one up, got mine for 18 USD
02:49:18saratogaclip that is
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02:49:58*Unhelpful suspects read sizes for bitmaps on the clip may be too low to expose the bug...
02:51:16Llorean`The clip's also mono, so it may be a little hard to spot.
02:51:46UnhelpfulLlorean: it might actually be easier... a dropped byte in a mono bitmap is an 8px shift.
02:53:28saratogacan't we just do random disk reads and check that they give the correct result
02:54:29Unhelpfulsaratoga: sure, test_disk failed too, on kugel's fuze, i believe :)
02:54:59saratogawell then looking at bitmap reading is probably not so useful
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02:55:07saratogaassuming test_disk is reproducible anyway
02:55:14UnhelpfulLlorean: the real problem as i see it is that 150px or smaller with 24bit bitmaps works just fine... and mono bitmaps are 8px/byte instead of 3byte/px
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02:58:47pcdriversCan Somebody Help Me? I Have A Few Questions
02:59:21Unhelpfulpcdrivers: please, check the channel guidelines... asking to ask is a waste of our time and yours. what do you need? :)
02:59:31pcdriversOh sorry
02:59:40pcdriversi cant compile a bootloader for my gigabeat S
02:59:47pcdriversi was wondering whether there was one for download
02:59:53pcdriversi get a lot of errors
03:00:22Lloreanpcdrivers: We'll provide one for download once it's an officially supported target.
03:01:02pcdriversDoes anybody know when it will be supported? ive read the port page but is it really close?
03:01:10pcdriversthis year?
03:01:16LloreanIt's impossible to predict.
03:02:05pcdriversAw ok but i just wanted to know whether i could use rockbox 3.1 on the gigabeat S if i manage to compile the bootloadaer
03:02:18LloreanRockbox 3.1 is a single specific build
03:02:30LloreanYou'll notice there's not a compile of 3.1 for the Gigabeat S either...
03:02:36LloreanIt's not "all builds after that date"
03:02:36Unhelpfulpcdrivers: it's quite usable, and i suggest you use the most current revision.
03:02:48pcdriversno thats why i wondered when its going to be officially supported
03:02:52pcdriversis there anything i can do to help?
03:03:25Unhelpfulyou can work on the manual, and on making the install process more user-friendly... i believe those are the main things blocking it?
03:03:41pcdriversok , what do i need to start?
03:03:52LloreanUnhelpful: I think there's also a problem with installing on 1.2 Gigabeat Ses
03:03:53pcdriversi have 3 weeks off now and i can really spend some good time on it
03:04:27pcdriversMy Gigabeat S is running 1.1 - if thats any use?
03:04:33pcdriverswhat do i need to start?
03:05:52UnhelpfulLlorean: that may be related to using the official updater, which updates other firmware files. i've been using 1.2 with dual-boot, but i've only ever used sendfirm or RB USB to update the bootloader.
03:06:21LloreanUnhelpful: Yeah, I meant Gigabeasts updated to 1.2 the official way
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03:06:51Unhelpfuldid we ever determine if "downgrading" the other .bin files worked?
03:06:52pcdriversI didnt know there was a 1.2 tbh
03:06:52Lloreanpcdrivers: You'd need to download the source, see which tasks you plan to help with, determine what's missing, and add / improve things.
03:07:03LloreanUnhelpful: Don't know.
03:07:22Unhelpfuli wonder if we can send the other bins with sendfirm...
03:08:25LloreanUnhelpful: Ideally we'd want to be able to make it work without downgrading anything
03:09:02kadobanpcdrivers: also, are you on the mailing list? depending on what you're planning on helping with, there's probably interesting traffic on there (check the logs if you're not on the list)
03:09:09pcdriversim just reinstalling cygwin now , starting from complete scratch as i made a right mess yesterday!
03:09:13pcdriversno il join though :D
03:09:48Unhelpfuli'm not sure that's feasible, it certainly seems like the people with trouble are getting into trouble before nk.bin loads - they get recovery mode after the first boot of RB BL. :/
03:12:36LloreanUnhelpful: Do we know what's failing yet? A signature check or something?
03:13:49Unhelpfulto my knowledge, no, we don't. the error messages don't really tell you, and i'm not sure how else we would find out... disassemble and compare recovery.bin? i'm not even sure that file matters, that's just a hunch. :/
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03:40:35MOHDMACHI have a .wps and it is broken and after checking the spelling of the bitmaps and the syntax within the file I could not figure out why it would not display. I have made 2 themes that are currently working on my ipod with this file. Basically I only replace the images and I have checked the spelling and the size of the images multiple times. The WPS does not even show up. If you could please check it over:
03:42:46kadobanMOHDMACH: that url doesn't work for me (i probably can't help anyway, but thought i should point it out)
03:43:36MOHDMACHOkay I'll paste another one.
03:47:57LloreanHave you tried loading it in a sim with debugwps to see where it fails?
03:49:28MOHDMACHI cannot run the sim. I have a macintosh computer.
03:50:02*Unhelpful would be shocked to learn that the sim works on windows and linux, but not macos
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03:50:21scorcheMOHDMACH: why wouldnt the sim work there?
03:50:36LloreanMOHDMACH: You can compile the sims on any OS you can compile Rockbox on (which includes MacOS)
03:51:14MOHDMACHI do not know how to compile yet.
03:51:33LloreanWell, that would be the next step, then.
03:51:43scorcheit would probably serve you well to look through the "for developers" section in the documentation index then
03:52:55MOHDMACHIt would but I have to learn terminal commands first so I have to get to that when I have time for more reading.
03:53:51saratogaits not really neccesary for you to justify giving up
03:53:59saratogayou can simply do it without telling everyone
03:54:45MOHDMACHDid you guys see any mistakes within the file posted?
03:55:42 Quit _lifeless (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
03:55:43LloreanMOHDMACH: The debugwps feature exists because it's really hard to spot mistakes by eye.
03:56:03LloreanInstead of asking us to spend time on the issue, why not take the suggested method and spend your own time on it?
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04:00:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:01:05MOHDMACHSo the debug feature only works with the simulator?
04:02:15Unhelpfulthere's nowhere to display debug output on devices, and it would be wasteful of memory to build all of that code into the rockbox binary when it will be unused most of the time.
04:04:19MOHDMACHWhat about a simple way to run it in a terminal? Like the rockbox bootloader.
04:04:54kadobanMOHDMACH: the simulator is the simple way
04:05:11LloreanMOHDMACH: You'd still have to compile it...
04:05:33MOHDMACHOk. Thanks for the help.
04:05:37 Quit MOHDMACH ("Bye")
04:05:40Unhelpfulthe rockbox bootloader isn't a "terminal"... and besides, the problem is 1) wasted space for code and 2) nowhere to display the text while you're using the GUI
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04:38:01PhilanthropiWhere can I get some warez
04:39:01PhilanthropiDon't you version ME!
04:39:04PhilanthropiGimme warez instead
04:40:12scorchePhilanthropi: stop this nonsense..
04:40:19agaffneyyou're slow, aren't you?
04:40:25scorcheagaffney: not helping
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04:40:48agaffneyscorche: probably not, but it needed to be said (at least imo :P)
04:41:00Philanthropiyour opinion is rubbish
04:41:12Philanthropifilm42 said I could get some free music here
04:41:16Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
04:41:18Mode"#rockbox +b %*!* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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04:41:40scorchePhilanthropi: you are muted for 10 minutes...please use this time to go over the guidelines linked in the topic
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05:02:10Mode"#rockbox -b %*!* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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05:14:33Brosch91hi, im trying to put albumart on my mp3 player, can anyone help me out?
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05:15:42LloreanBrosch91: What problem are you having with the instructions?
05:15:58UnhelpfulBrosch91: the easiest thing to do is save it as cover.bmp in the folder with the tracks... the full details are at
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05:18:49Brosch91hi fyrestorm
05:19:05Brosch91oh thanks
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05:28:23hatabaxis there a repo or other site that has different/custom voice packs?
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05:29:06Unhelpfulrasher: if we add a file offset pointing to embedded AA, then we could use that to load it after the rest of the tags, assuming that the tag doesn't use unsynchronization
05:30:00Horschtsince yesterday I get a message "Reading Harddrive" on the rockbox splashscreen. Until yesterday, this did not happen. Is this a sign of an imminent Harddrive Failure?
05:30:04Lloreanhatabax: There aren't any known ones currently.
05:30:14Horschttarget is an Ipod 5.5G 80GB with Rockbox 3.1
05:30:30LloreanHorscht: Is that the exact message, in English, and you're using the specific release binary and not a current build?
05:31:40HorschtLlorean, I get a German message "Lese Festplatte" which translates to "reading Harddrive" and I am using the 3.1 release not a current build. Until yesterday this worked fine
05:32:23LloreanHorscht: Please, in the future, tell the *exact* message. If you're using a different language the translation may not be literal, so if you translate it we may find the message doesn't exist and be confused since we don't know you're using another language
05:32:38Horschtok, sorry
05:33:17LloreanThat's actually the "scanning disk" message for dircache
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05:34:01LloreanHave you added files?
05:34:29Horschtnow I have but not previously
05:34:54LloreanDid you add files around the time the message started appearing?
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05:35:01Horschtit comes everytime, wether or not I am adding files.
05:35:31LloreanIf you have too many files, it may not be able to create the dircache, and you'll see the message every boot
05:35:56Horschtwhich would be "too many"? 65535?
05:36:24HorschtI probably have ~ 10000 songs + ~1000 covers
05:36:28LloreanI don't know the number, but I think it's based on database size, not a specific number.
05:36:49LloreanSo longer paths and filenames means less possible files. I'm not certain though.
05:37:17Horschtok. But it's not a sign of HD failure. That's nice to hear. That's all I wanted to hear actualy :)
05:37:30Lloreanthere's no guarantee it's not.
05:37:41LloreanBut there are other reasons it could be happening too.
05:37:49saratogastupid binutil 2.19 blows up when i try to build it for arm
05:38:07HorschtI will keep an eye on it then. thanks Llorean.
05:38:09Lloreansaratoga: You'd think with ARM's popularity it'd be pretty widely tested.
05:38:29Horschtgotta leave now. time for work. later.
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05:44:13saratogalooks like they fixed it in one of the snapshots, still very annoying
05:44:17saratogai'll play with this later
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07:27:57kugelUnhelpful: no, it doesn't help
07:28:19kugelor didn't*, whatever
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07:30:54kugelLlorean: I wondered if you have a look at FS #9662 soon
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07:35:18Unhelpfulkugel: bah. i've probably done about all i can, unless you want to try the bitmaps in smaller size increments, to try to see *exactly* where read size starts making things go bad. what size reads does the buffering code do, by the way?
07:35:39Unhelpfuli'm wondering if it's already under ~450B, and if not, what would happen if we had it read in smaller amounts.
07:39:41kugelI don't know which size the buffering code reads
07:39:49kugelI don't think it limits the size
07:40:44kugelI really appreciate your efforts and I understand if you're tired of it. We may just look into it when the port is more mature (and this SDRAM is fixed)
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07:41:36Unhelpfulit appears to read in 32KiB chunks. you might try changing BUFFERING_DEFAULT_FILECHUNK to something small, like 256, and see if it makes decoding more stable... it would be another band-aid, though, just like the bitmap reader one.
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07:42:31hatabaxhow could i go about changing just the shutdown clip of my voice file?
07:43:54kugelUnhelpful: oh thanks, I'll try that out, it wouldn't surprise me if it helps
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07:46:36Unhelpfuli wouldn't say i'm *tired* of this, but i'm really out of useful suggestions, i think. my experience with programming does not really cover "load/store to memory don't load/store the actual value or address specified" ;)
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07:56:40Unhelpfulkugel: just *how* opposed would you be to removing the option to disable scaling in pictureflow, or at least to scaling images down anyway if they're above a certain size? this would let us just break the plugin buffer into a bunch of chunks large enough to hold the maximum allowed image, and use that as the cache. i can't really see any other way around having to abuse bufalloc, or having to implement real memory management.
07:56:41amiconnkugel, Unhelpful: If test_disk fails, something is seriously wrong in the disk drivers, and needs to be fixed there
07:58:31amiconnIntroducing arbitrary delays tends to cover bugs, but doesn't fix them.
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07:59:19amiconnThere's a similar problem on the v1 Sansas - the occasional data corruption when boosted. This will occur more often with a speed optimized write loop
07:59:55amiconnI suspect that we're missing some timing register setup
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08:07:09Unhelpfuldid you catch the results i got with my attempts? i'm inclined to think that, assuming it's generally considered to work well / be a good idea as-is, it's better to merge the global plugin API work, and perhaps *then* try to figure out a way around the double indirection.
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08:09:25Brett_CarlockHey, I know this might be a no-no but is anyone willing to look at a firmware SDK and see if it is useful to rockbox?
08:09:32 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
08:09:36Brett_Carlockits for the Sigmatel STMP 3650 chipset
08:09:37B4gdera firmware SDK?
08:09:54Brett_Carlockyeah, its from Memorex for their MMP8640 media player
08:09:56B4gderBrett_Carlock: we don't need nor have use for any sdk, we need docs and info on the targets
08:10:18Brett_Carlockwould this file potentially contain things you may need?
08:10:21Unhelpfulthe only idea i have left to try, which i'm avoiding because of the amount of hassle involved, is using a linker script to create an object with just the header, which can then be linked with each sim plugin. it might be a way to fix whatever the problem is when linking the whole plugin with
08:10:36B4gderthat targets use the 3650?
08:11:28*B4gder answers his own question
08:11:55Brett_Carlocka few of the Memorex line seem to use it as well
08:12:17Brett_Carlockwhich is why I'm asking, I think they mistakenly posted the SDK instead of just the firmware installer on their support page
08:12:30B4gderso I can download it from there?
08:12:40*Unhelpful sees a device he owns on that list, too :)
08:13:27*B4gder takes a look
08:13:33Brett_CarlockAdd this device to the list for STMP3600? Memorex MMP9008 (8gb Video Player)
08:13:47Brett_CarlockI don't know enough to know if it's anything helpful, but I wanted to check and be sure
08:14:18B4gderdevice added
08:14:30Brett_Carlockthank you sir
08:14:40Brett_CarlockI may have others, I have another Memorex player coming and a Coby
08:14:46Brett_CarlockI'll confirm when they arrive
08:14:59Unhelpfuli only see one "port" that is "in-progress" for this chipset, and if the Express port page is to be believed, there is no port.
08:15:17B4gderindeed, there's basically nothing happening on any of those
08:15:58Brett_Carlockis that SDK of any use?
08:16:06B4gderI don't know
08:16:17B4gderthat's mostly windows binaries
08:16:25*B4gder has no windows anywhere around
08:17:16Brett_Carlockthe App folder just contains the sigmatel firmware updater tool
08:17:29Brett_Carlockthis will give some low-level info about the connected player and the loaded firmwares
08:17:48Brett_Carlockthe binary folder contains the files transfered to the player as firmware
08:18:01Brett_Carlockand the drivers folder.. well, I dont know exactly
08:18:57Brett_Carlockaight installed the sdk
08:19:21Brett_Carlockballs, nothing
08:20:24Brett_Carlockseems like a false alarm, my bad. Did not intend to waste your time
08:20:41B4gderno worries
08:22:00*Unhelpful puts his YP-Z5 away again, and sighs ;)
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08:23:30Brett_Carlockoo, would there be any interest in me sending you guys an MPIO HD300 and HD200 for you to hack away at?
08:23:57Brett_CarlockI bought them for parts and dont have the money lying around to fix them up
08:23:58B4gderI doubt that, but feel free posting a question in the forums or so
08:24:14B4gdergenerally we don't lack hw to port rockbox to
08:24:21B4gderwe lack people, time and docs
08:24:34scorcheBrett_Carlock: if you have some spare time to donate, that would be nice though ;)
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08:24:44Brett_CarlockI have time, I lack knowledge
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08:24:59scorchenever a time like the present to learn!
08:25:01Unhelpfulknowledge can be acquired :)
08:25:26Brett_CarlockI suppose, but I know nothing of programming what-so-ever
08:25:36Brett_Carlock<- end user
08:25:39scorchenever a time like the present to learn!
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08:27:00Brett_Carlockoi, where'd the dead projects section go on the Twiki?
08:27:28Brett_Carlocksearch ftw
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08:43:30amiconnUnhelpful: Did you try the linker script solution in linux, windows, or both?
08:44:17Unhelpfuli did not try in windows, no. i almost never boot windows, and none of my windows installs have any dev tools. and, if i can't even get it to work on *one* dev platform...
08:44:43*amiconn thinks that the double indirection is probably better than nasty sim hacks
08:45:31amiconnBtw, I have no idea how a linker script for an .so or .dll needs to look like
08:46:34Unhelpfulyeah, there's that, too. interestingly, one with only a SECTIONS statement, with only a .data.header section in it, still places everything in what look to be appropriate sections.
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08:51:18amiconnHmm, what do you think about the follwoing idea:
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08:51:59amiconnInstead of fiddling with aliasing in the linker script, make 'rb' a separate varaiable that is placed directly after the header on target, by using an appropriate section and the linker script.
08:52:45amiconnFor the simulator, we need to look up twosymbols now. Right now sim_plugin_load() returns the header address, as well as the shared object/ dll handle via **pd.
08:53:31amiconnThis could be changed so that sim_plugin_load() *only* does the loading itself, without the symbol lookup. The **pd parameter would be removed, and the function would return the handle instead
08:53:49amiconnThe symbol lookup would then be another function
08:54:39Unhelpfulthat seems like the same amount of sim/target disparity, or perhaps a bit more, vs what i was doing a few patches up - where we alias on the target, and use the pointer-to-a-pointer method on sim.
08:56:04Unhelpfulthat way can be written such that the only differences are inside PLUGIN_HEADER, and in the actual initialization of rb (ie, hdr->api = &rockbox_api vs *(hdr->api_ptr) = &rockbox_api)
08:56:11amiconnIt would keep the header format the same. The plugin loading itself is different anyway
08:57:50Unhelpful shows it more clearly than my explanation... conveniently, it even put plugin.{c,h} first.
09:02:31Unhelpfulinstead of the anonymous union, one could just as easily make the field void* and cast it as appropriate when assigning to/through it... but i like this way better, it avoids the casts, and makes it pretty clear what each version is doing.
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09:03:36ZagorUnhelpful: union? isn't api for target and api_ptr for sim?
09:04:31UnhelpfulZagor: they are. an anonymous union, in this context, acts just like a regular one, but inject the names of its elements into the enclosing scope, that of the structure.
09:04:59Unhelpfulessentially, it's one field that can be accessed with two different types, via different names.
09:05:15Zagoryes but if both symbols are not used in each build. the code is misleading
09:06:33Unhelpfulwould it be better to move the structure inside the #if? or add another inside the structure definition?
09:07:23Unhelpfulthe latter avoids duplicating the entire structure definition, and lets everything else stay almost exactly the same. it still leaves the question of whether the double indirection is worse, or the target-vs-sim disparity.
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09:15:42ZagorUnhelpful: can't you just #ifdef that line?
09:16:21Zagori.e instead of the union
09:16:49UnhelpfulZagor: i certainly can. would that be preferred? or would it be better to just always use the field as a pointer to rb, than as rb itself on targets?
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09:18:33*amiconn should try the alias idea
09:19:21amiconnAliasing in C, I mean
09:19:38*amiconn googled a bit, and it seems that should be possible
09:19:47Unhelpfulwhich idea is this? if you know a way to do it, i'm interested :)
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09:20:27ZagorI think I have missed the core problem you are trying to solve...
09:20:49amiconnAliasing __header with rb, so that it overwrites __header.magic
09:21:53UnhelpfulZagor: if you look at the most recent version of the patch, at the bottom of FS #9770, what we have there is a pointer to the rb pointer in the header, and then the loader does *(hdr->api) = &rockbox_api;
09:22:16Unhelpfulthe double indirection is a little bit awkward, that's the only problem we're trying to solve, here.
09:22:21Unhelpfulamiconn: #pragma weak?
09:23:23ZagorI think would describe the problem as that "hdr->api = rockbox_api" does not work. why is that?
09:23:50amiconnextern struct plugin_api *rb __attribute__((alias("__header")));
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09:25:03Unhelpfulamiconn: i didn't know about that... it's an interesting way to do it.
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09:25:26amiconnZagor: It does work, but then the plugin would need to use __header.api->apifunctioxx() to use it
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09:26:43Unhelpfulwe can use linker script hacks to make __header.api have the same address as rb on targets, but that doesn't work on sim.
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09:28:54amiconnUnhelpful: Btw, the pointer won't overwrite more than just 'magic' even on 64 bit sims.
09:29:00*Unhelpful seems to have gotten 509 points due to a full disk.
09:29:31Zagorthat solution sounds more complex than the problem. why not simply extend the PLUGIN_HEADER macro to include a declaration of rb, and a "plugin_crt0" that sets it?
09:29:47amiconn...because 'magic' is defined as 'unsigned long' (which is actually a mistake - it should have been 'uint32_t' - but it doesn't hurt)
09:31:18B4gdersaratoga handles that server
09:31:27UnhelpfulZagor: that sounds more complex to me than simply storing a pointer to rb in the header, as done at
09:34:04ZagorUnhelpful: but then you can't call it with rb->func()
09:34:57UnhelpfulZagor: the patch i just linked uses rb->func(), the header has a pointer to the address of rb, and the loader uses that pointer to write to it.
09:35:57*B4gder temporarily disabled femlab as a build server until it has been serviced
09:36:42Unhelpfulthe only "problem" with it is that the loader has to use *(hdr->api) to set rb, which seems a bit inelegant, and having rb as a pointer to the api, and a separate pointer to rb, wastes 4 bytes... not really enough to cry about.
09:40:00ZagorUnhelpful: oh, now I see. and no I don't think that's inelegant. we need to assign a pointer to a pointer container. and that requires double indirection. I definitely would not want linker magic instead.
09:43:00Zagorumm, does your patch only declare rb for the sim?
09:43:34Unhelpfulso you think we're trying to solve a non-problem? :)
09:44:09Zagorif all you are trying to do is avoid "*(hdr->api_ptr) = &rockbox_api;" then, yes
09:44:26Unhelpfulno, rb is declared for sim and target - it can be treated by plugin code as a symbol provided by the environment.
09:44:50Zagoris it added in a different place for target?
09:45:07Zagorit's at the top of PLUGIN_HEADER for sim only
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09:48:40Zagorthat's in the patch you linked to here (file 18324). in your last patch (file 18366) it's added for both
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09:57:05Unhelpfulthe 18324 on is the one with the union you didn't like - that one aliases rb to api in the linker script. if you think that the double indirection is a non-issue, then the one we'd be talking about commiting is 18366
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10:00:36GodEater_has anyone else recently experienced playback dropouts on the ipods on bootup ?
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10:32:33Zagorkugel: an interesting test would be to disable cpu speed changing completely and see if that improves stability. i.e. stay at 24 MHz. (CGU_PROC = 0)
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10:40:24kugelZagor: what target/patch are you talking about?
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10:40:32Zagorkugel: ams
10:41:08kugelmin frequency is (as of now) 31MHz I think
10:41:45kugelI'm actually quite hopefully that getting the cache & mmu running will solve many problems
10:42:09Zagor31 MHz is just the "normal" frequency we use. it's not a limit of any kind. clear CGU_PROC and it will run at 24MHz
10:42:45kugelyea I meant that, but I didn't know that 24MHz is possible
10:43:01Zagorany speed is possible
10:45:17kugelwell, I won't prevent you from experimenting, clearing CGU_PROC at startup and letting cpu_set_frequency do nothing should do the job
10:45:43kugelI'm a bit doubfully though, also not boosting isn't an option anyway
10:46:10kugelat least not with such a low clock speed
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10:47:56Zagorit's just a test
10:48:28Zagorbut yeah 31 MHz is a better speed to stay at since then we can still play some codecs
10:48:46kugelare you going to do the test? I don't have time right now
10:48:59Zagorme neither. that's why I suggested it to you :-)
10:49:22kugelmeh, why don't you do it? you are already into clocking stuff now ;)
10:49:49kugelI'll see if I find time
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10:53:02kadobanif i'm going to have to make a completely new pluginlib_action button context for a plugin, is there a compelling case to still use pluginlib_action over plain button defines, or the other way around?
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10:54:05kugelkadoban: yes, of course
10:54:27kadobankugel: which way? i have no idea which to use, they seem pretty much the same in my case
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10:55:11kugelsure, but the work of adapting a plugin to a new port is greatly reduced if used pla
10:55:28kugelalso, it's less error prone, once it works
10:55:39ZagorI was thouroghly confused by the clocking yesterday. I confirmed (from CGI_PLLASUP) that it is using the internal 24MHz clock. but my PLL calculactions don't add up.
10:55:45kugeland it makes plugins act consistent over targets and plugins
10:56:07kadobankugel: i'm not sure you understand. i can't use any of the default button contexts...i need too many buttons
10:56:16kadobanso i'd just be making a custom one and using that
10:56:18Zagorkugel, kadoban: if the plugin is rather simple, actions work fine. for more complex plugins buttons are better.
10:56:29kadobanZagor: okay, thanks
10:56:31kugelkadoban: well, if you need many buttons, than pla is not suitable
10:56:36kadobanahh, okay
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11:05:42pixelma<kugel> also, it's less error prone, once it works <−− I'd say it's the other way round because you lose control and neveer actually see if it works other targets and if it doesn't it can be very error-prone to fix it. Anything else than some really basic control scheme that's already covered is very "dangerous" there and IMO should be avoided...
11:06:23kugelyes, only basic control, sure
11:06:55kugelthat's the only thing that can mostly be done without taking the specific button situation on the targets into account anyway
11:06:55pixelmathere are already broken plugins (not fully controllable on all targets) due to PLA
11:07:15kugelhence the "once it works"
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11:07:59pixelma"once it works" can break if someone decides to rearrange something in the lib
11:09:18kugelon the other hand, you need to edit dozens of files to adapt plugins to a new target, sometimes c&p, sometimes button definitions from scratch. if pla is used you only need to edit 1 file
11:09:25kugelthat's what I meant with less error prone
11:11:17pixelmawhat use is "you can edit it quicker" if half of the plugins don't work correctly?
11:11:51kugelI may stress again "once it works", and that the current pla does not work
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11:19:50UnhelpfulZagor: so, you didn't have any questions left with the latest version of the patch, ie without nasty linker hacks... just the 25% "maybe this is hiding too much" concern. who else ought i to have look at something like this before i'd commit?
11:20:19Unhelpfuli know reverting isn't hard... i still don't want to just shove something in that will make everybody mad, though :)
11:22:09pixelmakugel: well, I didn't understand that you meant PLA with "it" in that sentence, didn't read that you menat the PLA doesn't work currently and I'm very pessimistic that "connecting" control schemes this way will ever work nicely (for anything else than the very basics)
11:23:11ZagorUnhelpful: I think it has been announced publicly and early enough that people have had their chance to oppose it. I want the version with the least "magic" in it. and I don't consider double indirection magic.
11:23:59ZagorI say commit it
11:24:26Unhelpfulfair enough, i'll go ahead and send it off :)
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12:48:31gartralhey all, what do i do with the dictionary plugin, theres no documentation for it...
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13:21:38daurnimatorwho (if anyone) is working on the sd addressing on the v2 sansa(s)?
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13:26:49gartralhmmm, just got "prefech abort at C0EDBABE (0)"
13:26:55gartralin rockdoom*
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13:38:06ajbSounds like a guard value
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13:43:01ajbDoes Torne Wuff hang around on here?
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13:44:24Zagorlogbot seen torne
13:44:54Zagor-logbot- torne ( left the channel 8 days and 15 hours ago
13:47:28pixelmabtw... Unhelpful and ajb: the suggested version string will be too long for the bootsplash on small displays (even the current is a tad bit long on the Archoses with a 'M'odified build but still readable). Not sure if the issue is that important (to grant an answer in the ml) because the string is scrolling in the Rockbox Info screen
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13:49:42ajbpixelma: Will it just get truncated on the boot splash? I don't want to introduce any buffer overruns :-)
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14:00:43pixelmaI don't know the code behind it. All I can say is that there doesn't seem to be a problem with the 2 more pixel columns on the Archoses, looking at it
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14:14:46gartrali know that if your bootsplash is biggher than the display on the E200s it just overscans and ignores it, though it does cause a bit of a wait when looking at the credits screen
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15:42:05control_your_plai think something since 3.1 caused problems with the keymaps in blackjack on e200
15:42:40control_your_placan anyone check, whether this happerns only to me, or is it a bug?
15:46:09domonokycontrol_your_pla: and what is the problem ?
15:47:35control_your_plawhen i set the money
15:48:00control_your_plathen releasing the button is recognised als an additional click
15:48:38control_your_plaso I have to take a third card
15:48:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:49:31control_your_pla*when i enter a bet*
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15:52:20gartralumm.. theres no way too scroll in the dictionary plugin on the E200s...
15:52:54domonokycontrol_your_pla: and this did work correctly in 3.0 ?
15:53:40control_your_plajes, and it did in 3.1, I think
15:54:39domonokycan you find out when it broke ?
15:56:46domonokywhich button do you use to enter a bet on e200 ?
15:57:05control_your_plathe big one in the middle
15:57:16domonokyi think r19673 broke it.
15:57:32domonokythats BUTTON_SELECT
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15:58:09domonokyjup its r19673, select seems to be mapped wrongly
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15:59:36domonokyhaving one action on button_select and another on the release of this button, surely creates stranges things. :-)
16:00:02pixelmamissing a _PRE condition
16:03:21domonokygrr r19673 changes the blackjack keymapping for e200, without telling it in the commit message. Thats not nice. (now checking if there are more keymap changes in this commit)
16:04:31control_your_plaand, the text that is shown to explain the buttons for blackjack isn't right anymore
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16:05:37domonokyplugin_lib actions for e200 are also changes in this commit :-/
16:07:27control_your_plaperhaps I'll be back tomorrow, bye for now
16:07:36 Quit control_your_pla ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
16:07:50domonokyand many strange FIXME comments inserted into plugins.. :-/ i think we should revert parts of this commit.
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16:10:03gartralis the scolling problem in the dictionary one of them?
16:10:48domonokygartral: no
16:11:48Zagordomonoky: I agree. it should only add fuze buttons, not change existing.
16:12:59domonokyZagor: do you want revert this, or should i take a try on it ?
16:13:21Zagordomonoky: go ahead
16:13:57Zagorpreferrably fix it, by splitting fuze and e200 where they are mixed. rather than just revering the whole commit.
16:14:10Zagor*where e200 has been changed
16:14:24domonokyyes, i want to fix it. and also remove most of this silly FIXME comments.
16:16:40Zagordomonoky: yes, I don't see the point in commenting it out just because BUTTON_HOME is not sent yet. kugel, can you explain?
16:17:16Zagorand some other comments too, I see :)
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16:18:36gartral <−− i think this page either needs too be deleted, or include a link too the manual...
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17:02:09mib_udbkulohgatral: Feel free to modify it. I think that if someone has a hard time finding the manual from the wiki they might not be ready for an alternative firmware.
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17:04:15grdxyxyanyone can help me? my rockbox cannot display simplified chinese
17:04:58domonokygrdxyxy: you have to choose a font which includes the needed characters, like Unifont.
17:05:30grdxyxydomonoky: ok,i will try it.thanks
17:09:55grdxyxydomonoky: but i cannot find Settings → General Settings → Display → Browse Fonts
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17:11:00domonokyit moved int Theme settings.
17:11:43grdxyxydomonoky: thanks.
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17:12:53grdxyxydomonoky: it is ok.thanks
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17:13:02domonokyyou should probably look for a Theme (in the wiki) which uses unifont, or another font with the chars you need. As different font sizes probably screw up you wps display.
17:13:31grdxyxydomonoky: it is ok now.thank u
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17:47:04IudeXhi i'm tested rockbox on clip 2gb v1 and it's "panics" :/ do you know why?
17:48:06domonokyIudeX: you know that rockbox on clip isnt "ready" ? :-)
17:48:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:48:50ZagorIudeX: the storage driver has bugs
17:48:54IudeXdomonkoy: I'm know. :) I'm asking that u know anything about it :) Sorry :)
17:49:12IudeXZagor: Ok. Its good ;] thx
17:51:31IudeXBut good work guys. :) I'm playing snake .. :D
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17:54:39*LambdaCalculus37 wonders if ludeX forgot a smiley somewhere
17:54:53dionoea:} ?
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19:38:39 Join lostnihilist [0] (
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19:39:59lostnihilistI just installed 3.1; I've been using rockbox for years but hadn't updated since sometime in 2006 probably until about 20 minutes ago. anyway; now my WPS screen is corrupted (maybe choosing another wps file will fix that) but more importantly, my mp3's are spewing "Codec Failure" onto the screen
19:41:41 Join gregzx [0] (
19:42:23BigBambithe wps is outdated
19:42:30BigBambiand you need a new bootloader
19:42:45lostnihilistsurprised the bootload can cause that
19:42:55BigBambithe old bootloader is trying to load rockbox.iriver from the root, whereas it now lives in /.rockbox
19:43:07lostnihilistfigured the WPS just needed to be updated (mentioned that on the offchance it was related)
19:43:10BigBambiSo when you updated, the old iriver.rockbox in the root didn't get overwritten
19:43:28BigBambiso the old bootloder is loading the old rockbox.iriver but trying to use the new codecs etc
19:43:35lostnihilistgot you
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19:44:06lostnihilisti would not have thought to look at the bootloader, thanks
19:44:17BigBambino problem
19:48:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:57:18kugeldomonoky: why did you remove those FIXME comments? Did they something bad? I was golng to resolve them in a soon patch
19:58:17kugelI don't think they're unneeded, they marked mysterious spots in the source
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19:58:23domonokyit feels strange to have comments which ask questions.
19:59:02kugelthat's hardly a reason to remove these imo
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20:01:35kugeldomonoky: and btw: saratoga was aware of them (I explicitly said that I added those comments in a few places) so he was fine with them
20:02:11*domonoky just feels that comments like "FIXME: why only charcell ?" doesnt belong into svn.
20:03:20kugelWhy? Until someone answer's that question I think it's valid to ask
20:03:41BigBambiThat doesn't sound like a fixme
20:03:55BigBambiIt sounds like a question that ought to be asked of the person that originally wrote it
20:04:30 Quit moredhel (Client Quit)
20:04:31BigBambi(disclaimer: no idea what the code is like, just going by that line)
20:06:51kugeldomonoky: but the e200 changes weren't intentional, so I'm sorry about that
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20:43:20lostnihilistthe numeric option for battery does not appear to change the battery indicator to a numeral
20:43:31lostnihilistvolume as numeric does work though
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20:47:50PaulJamlostnihilist: do you have a charger connected?
20:48:09lostnihilisti do
20:48:27lostnihilistand unplugging it changes to numeric
20:48:53lostnihilistmy old version gave me an ETA on charge/discharge
20:49:02lostnihilistdid I code that in my wps file?
20:49:31BigBambidon't know to be honest
20:49:56PaulJamprobably the WPS, the statusbar did never show that information as far as i know.
20:50:31BigBambilostlogic: you can check to see if it is there
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20:50:58lostnihilistok, i guess I'll have to look at editing my old wps to make it compatible
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22:05:37iambenif im upgrading from old rockbox build (~1yr ago) to current, would it be sane to just wipe .rockbox and unzip a fresh one? or is there a new bootloader too?
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22:07:10BigBambiiamben: which target?
22:07:30iambensorry, e200
22:07:43 Quit ender` (" If I steal something very important to the hero, I will not put it on public display. -- Evil Overlord List #162")
22:07:51BigBambiI'm pretty sure that there has been a new bootloader in that time
22:08:02BigBambiIt can't hurt to update it
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22:10:23iambenoooh fancy, rbutilqt
22:12:28BigBambiiamben: Get with the times! :)
22:13:16iambeni havent used my sansa in quite a while, back a year or 2 ago i was building from svn daily
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22:22:23iambenwow, it boots a lot faster than it used to
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22:40:19lee3219875;2421303;0;0;606224;0;0; <−−−− that's an entry for one of my Bookmarks. Which one is the position, and what is it a number of (i.e. bytes/samples/milliseconds...ect)?
22:46:05 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:48:19lee321987Is there a place I can find out what all the numbers mean in a bookmark file?
22:48:36amiconnThe code....
22:48:39amiconnThe numbers are:
22:49:29iamben4 8 15 16 23 42?
22:49:55amiconnresume index; resume offset (in bytes); random seed; 0; resume time (in milliseconds); repeat mode; shuffle mode; playlist name
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22:50:38amiconnPlaylist name is empty if it is a dynamic playlist, and the '0' is for backwards compatibility afaik
22:52:21lee321987to create a manual bookmark (in a text editor) could I supply only the "resume time" or would I have to know the byte offset too?
22:53:15saratogai think comments should stay in SVN until they're made more clear
22:53:20saratogaremoving them entirely seems nasty
22:53:22amiconnYou need the byte offset, because that's what is actually used for resuming
22:53:43Bagdersaratoga: did you spot your server's disk problems?
22:53:57 Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.)
22:54:00amiconnIf you get the resume time wrong, it might be that time display in the wps will be wrong until the next track change
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22:54:47lee321987or could it just be the time that shows when you are browsing bookmarks?
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23:00:38TheSkunkMani just got my iriver lplayer today, would the older firmware(1.02) be able to help at all with decrypting the firmware
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23:01:12TheSkunkMani cant find 1.02 firmware online and if that would help i dont want to update it yet
23:01:12BagderTheSkunkMan: it usually helps to get lots of different firmware files to analyze
23:02:14 Quit kachna (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:02:57Bagderfor one of the sansas we got two identical firmware versions but with different language, that was a good pair to use
23:03:01 Join lee321987_ [0] (
23:04:31TheSkunkManwere the files similar at all though?
23:04:51Bagderwell, I had an easier case since I only figured out a checksum then
23:04:55Bagderencryption is harder
23:05:01lee321987_I lost my connection −−- can anyone see this?
23:05:01TheSkunkManoh ok
23:05:26saratogalee321987_: yes, and in the future just check the logs on the site
23:05:42TheSkunkMani have 2 lplayer firmware files in english and french and besides the very start they are completely different
23:06:16BagderTheSkunkMan: and you have no other files than the encrypted ones?
23:06:51kugelsaratoga: that's what I thought too (re comments)
23:07:01lee321987_saratoga: you mean to see if I'm showing up?
23:07:34 Quit Horscht ("IRC is just multiplayer notepad")
23:07:45saratogalee321987_: when you log in or out thats recorded, so you don't have to ask
23:08:14lee321987_ok thanks.
23:09:47lee321987_amiconn: I didn't see if you answered my last question, but I just confirmed that changing the resume time only effects the time displayed when you are viewing bookmarks. Thanks for your help
23:11:51 Quit lee321987_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]")
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23:34:50kugelsaratoga: hm, this buttonlight can act nicely as "disk" activity indicator
23:37:14kugelsaratoga: what would you think? I'm actually thinking of leaving it this way (right now it flickers on sd transfers)
23:39:30kugelhm, if it was a feature, it would probably greatly missunderstood
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23:48:53amiconnkugel: Btw, I have an idea that adds fade in/out times for brightness-setting based fading, and hopefully make it flicker less
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23:55:45 Quit Horscht ("User was distributing pornography on server; system seized by FBI")
23:57:02kugelamiconn: well, I'm not a fan of having time settings for those, but if you can manage it, why not
23:57:28kugeland again, it doesn't flicker here (I wouldn't have considered it finished if it flickered on my target)

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