| 00:00:24 | amiconn | gcc doesn't know about the emac so it won't get in the way. This changed in 4.3.x afaik, so quite a bit of code will need review if we switch |
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| 00:03:31 | Unhelpful | will movclr from accext01 clear acc0? or will i have to do that explicitly when the scaler is finished? |
| 00:04:52 | Unhelpful | or can i not use it with the accumulator extension reg? |
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| 00:06:26 | saratoga | holy crap that floor0 vorbis file mallocs an extra half MB of data vs. current builds |
| 00:06:55 | Zagor | amiconn: doesn't look like it, unfortunately. It does 1884 loops waiting for the lock bit, even if not changing the vco :-( |
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| 00:07:44 | amiconn | Well you don't change the vco directly. It is changed by the pll circuit trying to lock the phases |
| 00:08:10 | amiconn | The only way to avoid this is to not change the pll dividers at all |
| 00:08:19 | Zagor | yeah I mean VCODIV and VCOOUT |
| 00:08:29 | amiconn | Did you try to check whether there is a wait for relock if you only change the post divider? |
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| 00:09:00 | Zagor | yes that is what I just tried |
| 00:09:31 | Zagor | I only changed CPUDIV and it still spent 1884 loops waiting for lock |
| 00:09:54 | amiconn | of course |
| 00:10:21 | amiconn | If you change either VCODIV or PLLDIV, it will need to relock |
| 00:10:36 | Zagor | well I didn't. I changed CPUDIV. |
| 00:10:55 | amiconn | I meant whether you checked your theory that if you *only* change VCOOUT (like in your patch), the relock is really not needed |
| 00:11:09 | Zagor | my patch changes CPUDIV, not VCOOUT |
| 00:11:27 | amiconn | Yeah, that should work too |
| 00:11:38 | * | amiconn thinks there are confusingly many dividers |
| 00:12:06 | | Quit Rob2222 () |
| 00:12:35 | kugel | Zagor: the icache is definetely active on ams, but the dcache not |
| 00:12:44 | kugel | I ran rockbox without icache, it was horrible |
| 00:12:57 | * | amiconn should also do some tests regarding the PLLCR manipulation in pcm-coldfire one of these days |
| 00:13:00 | PaulJam_ | Zagor: not sure if this are good or bad news, but with the last patch on FS #9797 i get the same faulty behaior like with the first patch on my h300. |
| 00:13:02 | Zagor | kugel: :-) |
| 00:13:29 | amiconn | I still suspect it might be the cause of the occasional hard freezes. |
| 00:13:34 | kugel | Zagor: also, I'm not sure if boosting is alright now. test_boost shows a difference, but it doesn't look like it was 10x faster (more like 2-3x) |
| 00:13:36 | Zagor | PaulJam_: I consider it good news. that means we still haven't seen any bad side effects from the fast switching. |
| 00:13:41 | Unhelpful | hrm... so, it looks as if having my result data in %accext means that i will need an explicit clear after each operation? |
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| 00:14:06 | Zagor | kugel: we need to fix sdram timing. |
| 00:14:08 | amiconn | Yeas, but that shouldn't bee too bad |
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| 00:16:03 | Unhelpful | i don't see where one can *do* that? just use a dummy movclr? or a move-to-accumulator? |
| 00:16:04 | saratoga | kugel: is dcache on? |
| 00:16:12 | kugel | no |
| 00:16:19 | TheSkunkMan | how can i use the tools that are in the svn such as descramble.c? |
| 00:16:21 | saratoga | well that will explain the results with boosting |
| 00:16:25 | kugel | it can't, the datasheet tells it cannot be used without mmu |
| 00:16:44 | saratoga | withotu cache theres little sense in boosting unless you're operating out of IRAM |
| 00:17:02 | Bagder | TheSkunkMan: you build them, like with 'make tools' or the specific ones |
| 00:17:04 | kugel | makes sense |
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| 00:21:16 | Unhelpful | is junk in the top half of accext0, which "belongs" to acc1, anything i'll need to worry about? |
| 00:22:03 | amiconn | As long as you don't use acc1 yourself, the top half should be zero (due to our convention) |
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| 00:25:00 | Unhelpful | should i just use movclr to a dummy variable to clear acc0? or move.l #0, %%acc0? |
| 00:26:30 | amiconn | Either method works |
| 00:27:04 | Unhelpful | the latter doesn't clobber a register... i'm not sure how much that will matter on coldfire. |
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| 00:29:21 | Unhelpful | tbh, it might be sensible on sh-1 to just use the >>24 version. anybody loading bitmaps >500x500 on that target is asking for trouble ;) |
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| 00:32:49 | Unhelpful | gevaerts: if you don't mind testing again, i've re-uploaded. if it still doesn't work, i think i'll leave making it better to somebody who has one. |
| 00:36:08 | gevaerts | Unhelpful: still bad |
| 00:36:14 | Unhelpful | bah! |
| 00:36:56 | Unhelpful | ... actually, i see an obvious error :/ |
| 00:37:17 | JdGordon | PaulJam_: you said v8 of the playback patch breaks wps sublines... does that mean v7 worked? |
| 00:37:41 | PaulJam_ | JdGordon: yes, and i think iknow why... |
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| 00:38:12 | Unhelpful | i changed the emac mode, then changed the code to work correctly in integer mode... then left it setting the emac in fractional mode. |
| 00:39:59 | Unhelpful | gevaerts: once more, for great justice? ;) |
| 00:40:04 | PaulJam_ | the changes in gwps.c look like it does a full WPS update (which resets the sublines) when "update_track" is true, but if i understand the code correctly then "update_track" is almost always set to true in the large switch statement. |
| 00:40:18 | PaulJam_ | this was for JdGordon |
| 00:40:28 | JdGordon | eeek... ok |
| 00:40:43 | JdGordon | yeah, I have to admit that was a quick fix for the "ui responsiveness" problem |
| 00:43:11 | gevaerts | Unhelpful: looks OK now |
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| 00:44:16 | JdGordon | PaulJam_: can you comment out line 639 in gwps.c and see if that fixes things? or makes things worse? |
| 00:44:39 | PaulJam_ | ok |
| 00:44:45 | JdGordon | actually.. yeah dont bother |
| 00:44:57 | JdGordon | needs a bit more sofistocated fix than that :) |
| 00:45:04 | PaulJam_ | ok |
| 00:45:40 | Unhelpful | faboo, we have a coldfire-optimized version of the scaler, with the same math that the C version uses, then |
| 00:46:21 | Unhelpful | the C translates to reasonable asm on arm... sh-1 still needs some love :) |
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| 00:46:39 | gevaerts | gcc-Unhelpful :) |
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| 00:47:21 | Unhelpful | it might be reasonable to use the >>24 C code there, it's still accurate to much larger scales than you want to do on... 12MHz? |
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| 00:48:37 | amiconn | 12MHz in Ondios and Player (not relevant here), 11MHz in Recorders |
| 00:51:24 | amiconn | As long as no variable shifts are involved, SH1 code is pretty efficient, and RAM speed compared to CPU speed is decent (unlike on coldfire) |
| 00:52:17 | amiconn | It does not yet use SDRAM, but fast page mode DRAM. Just 2 waits if the page isn't open, single-cycle for an open page. 16 bits wide. |
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| 00:56:28 | Soap_ | amiconn: I think you are the most (only) knowledgeable person re:1st gen iPods. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=20228.msg114378#new |
| 00:57:10 | amiconn | Ah, that problem :( |
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| 01:49:35 | tmzt | is it possible to use codesourcery arm toolchain as arm-elf-gcc? |
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| 01:50:32 | rasher | tmzt: It might be, and it might not be. If it fails, don't blame us |
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| 01:51:09 | tmzt | what is the right toolchain to use? I'm trying to find documentation in the wiki but it seems user focused |
| 01:51:32 | rasher | tmzt: the CrossCompiler page should tell everything you need to know (and the "For developers" part of DocsIndex) |
| 01:51:53 | tmzt | thank you |
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| 02:25:05 | soho | hey guys, i have a serious problem with my rockbox software |
| 02:25:11 | soho | i think its broken |
| 02:26:34 | soho | can someone help? |
| 02:27:09 | kadoban | soho: just ask, don't ask to ask. |
| 02:27:35 | soho | well |
| 02:27:46 | soho | i took my ipod nano with rockbox, charged it up on my Mac |
| 02:27:54 | soho | and it doesnt even load |
| 02:28:03 | soho | so i formated with apple |
| 02:28:10 | soho | but some of rockbox is still left |
| 02:28:58 | soho | kadoban can you walk me through the steps to reinstall rockbox |
| 02:29:00 | soho | using linux |
| 02:29:15 | kadoban | soho: not really right now, the manual can though :P |
| 02:29:44 | soho | ah ok |
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| 04:02:11 | Unhelpful | ok, here's the patch, asm for coldfire, >>24 with C math for sh, >>32 with C math otherwise |
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| 04:21:45 | kronflux | can anyone give me a compiled binary of the development build for the fuze? just wanna play around with it, check for bugs, etc. |
| 04:23:43 | saratoga | kronflux: its not really usable so we don't really need bug checking |
| 04:24:29 | kronflux | well, more curiousity than anything :p I mean, if you happen to have a binary laying around with the latest work on it. |
| 04:25:36 | saratoga | kronflux: have you read through the install instructions? |
| 04:25:52 | kronflux | I'm reading the irc logs, and looking over the forum post now, but I'm not entirely sure how to compile or install specifically. |
| 04:26:08 | kronflux | not too up to date on it. but last I heard, a lot of progress was made. |
| 04:27:02 | saratoga | you may wish to review the install process, compiling rockbox is not the only complicated step |
| 04:27:31 | kronflux | any handy links to said instruction? |
| 04:27:41 | kronflux | if its not a hassle ^_^ |
| 04:27:48 | saratoga | they're in teh wiki |
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| 04:30:30 | kronflux | should it logically not be as easy as having a built firmware file, and uploading it? |
| 04:31:14 | kronflux | I mean.. yeah.. if you're compiling it yourself and such... its a lot more difficult.. but hypothetically, as I had asked, if someone had it prebuilt, could one not just grab that file and upload it, then the device would do the work? |
| 04:31:35 | saratoga | provided you've reformated the device and compiled the tools to upload it, yes |
| 04:32:33 | saratoga | actually maybe someone could patch the firmware file and give you that now that i think about it |
| 04:33:35 | kronflux | that would be nice |
| 04:33:51 | kronflux | if anyone is willing to try, I'd be grateful ^^ |
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| 04:44:02 | kronflux | no? i tried |
| 04:45:05 | Unhelpful | many of the people who might have fuze builds on hand aren't even here, right now. |
| 04:45:26 | kronflux | ah well. I'll try again in the morning if I havent built one myself by then |
| 04:45:29 | kronflux | g'night! |
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| 05:42:45 | saratoga | Lear: for what its worth, playing AAC files with reasonable memory usage by shrinking the sample_byte_size table is easy and massively reduces memory usage |
| 05:43:16 | saratoga | i think seeking can be made to work without too much trouble, but so far I keep getitng crashes, probably just need to read through the specs when i'm rested |
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| 07:51:08 | tmzt | where does bootloader-fuze come from? it looks like it was in the old SansaV2 wiki page (google cache) and have read mkamsboot.c and dualboot.S and don't see where I get this file from |
| 07:51:30 | Llorean | You compilei t. |
| 07:52:10 | tmzt | it's not in build |
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| 07:52:33 | Llorean | What do you mean? |
| 07:52:42 | Llorean | You built a bootloader target and didn't get the bootloader? |
| 07:52:46 | tmzt | it's not in the build folder |
| 07:52:55 | Llorean | Did you choose to build a bootloader? |
| 07:53:47 | tmzt | I see, configure and choose (B)ootloader |
| 07:55:44 | kugel | tmzt: did you run rockboxdev.sh or do you use codesourcery now? |
| 07:55:51 | tmzt | rockboxdev.sh |
| 07:56:20 | kugel | ok, that should work (even though I was curious if codesourcery worked ;) ) |
| 07:56:20 | tmzt | it's patched for multilib I see |
| 07:56:41 | tmzt | I will be happy to try codesourcery for build but not bootloader |
| 07:58:37 | kugel | tmzt: as long as you don't compile mkamsboot with something experimental you're fine. a not working bootloader is just as undangerous as the build |
| 07:59:03 | tmzt | on fuze? I thought there was no recovery |
| 07:59:10 | kugel | yes |
| 07:59:25 | kugel | but mkamsboot contains critical code for dual booting, and once you're in the bootloader it's already too late |
| 07:59:47 | kugel | and dualboot is even before the bootloader |
| 07:59:55 | tmzt | oh, so bootloader is the compressed part? |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:03 | kugel | yes |
| 08:00:27 | kugel | if we had more space in the OF to put our code into we wouldn't even need a bootloader ;) |
| 08:00:39 | tmzt | is there a filename I need to name the output of mkamsboot to flash? |
| 08:01:11 | kugel | yes |
| 08:01:34 | kugel | it has to be named like a OF, so the fuze accepts it and does the upgrade |
| 08:01:42 | kugel | like, fuzet.bin |
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| 08:18:12 | tmzt | kugel: I'm cleaning up my nand storage now to prepare to resize the filesystem (not partition) and I'm not sure how to do it wihout changing the partition table if this really is superfloppy mode |
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| 08:39:18 | gartral | good morning all, I'm having a minor error in my build environment, it still tries too call the old svnversion.sh file, though it doesn't seem too affect much of anything |
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| 09:00:00 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Is there a reason why the new usb detection is only for c200 and e200? Or do I misunderstand something? |
| 09:01:13 | lucent | usb detection also on fuze btw |
| 09:01:19 | lucent | unless I'm talking nonsense |
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| 09:11:52 | lucent | oh, I am mistaken, just looked at SVN log now |
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| 09:20:27 | tmzt | kugel: dual-boot is working, great. svn up shows at r18000 while svn log -l 50 shows newest being r19800 |
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| 09:22:24 | tmzt | kugel: sorry, I did read that wrong |
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| 10:35:34 | ucchan | When r19794, iPod Photo's battery value changed. But it is very different FS #9072. Is the committed value correct? |
| 10:39:54 | Zagor | ucchan: saratoga committed that. I don't know which values he used. since he didn't close FS #9072 it seems he didn't use those at least. |
| 10:40:24 | Zagor | ucchan: are you Yoshihisa Uchida? |
| 10:40:49 | ucchan | Yes |
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| 10:46:35 | pixelma | n1s: remember the labelling reset holes/battery switches etc. in the player's drawings? What do you think about labelling microphone holes as well? |
| 10:47:05 | n1s | pixelma: i don't see why not :) |
| 10:47:08 | Llorean | Seems like a good idea. |
| 10:50:15 | pixelma | alright, I should pick up that work again then... Is "microphone" and/or "reset" enough or does it need the "hole" too? I just find "microphone hole" a tad bit long. Well, "battery switch" is to but no way to shorten it. |
| 10:50:50 | pixelma | *too too ;) |
| 10:52:13 | B4gder | "reset hole" and "microphone" would work imho |
| 10:54:31 | * | Llorean agrees |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:11 | pixelma | alright. Something just crossed my mind - if we start label all kinds of things, what about headphone jacks, USB etc. Where to draw the line? |
| 11:01:32 | pixelma | optical in/out |
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| 11:14:11 | kugel | damnit |
| 11:14:16 | kugel | I can't get it to work |
| 11:16:02 | Zagor | kugel: mmu? |
| 11:17:50 | kugel | yea |
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| 11:18:09 | kugel | I actually don't think I did something wrong, F/X doesn't do more |
| 11:18:16 | kugel | yet the main failsl to boot |
| 11:20:01 | gartral | ok, this isnt really a bug, as it doesn't hurt anything, but i noticed that with back light fade-in oon the e200, if you hold a button or spin the wheel when its fading, it causes it too fade slower, without flickering... |
| 11:23:07 | ucchan | As for iPod Photo, if the commited value is correct, the battery value might be different because of the difference of the capacity of HDD(30GB/60GB) or the model number. |
| 11:23:57 | ucchan | For iPod Photo users. please coud you run the battery bench ? |
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| 11:40:47 | kugel | amiconn: ping |
| 11:46:43 | kugel | Zagor: any hint what to do about the backlight fading cleanup? |
| 11:46:56 | kugel | I'd like to have a decision |
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| 11:55:35 | ajb | So who is interested in playlists? |
| 11:56:00 | B4gder | I use them all the time, but I can't say they interest me much ;-) |
| 11:56:15 | kugel | same here :) |
| 11:59:31 | ajb | I'm just trying to get some responses to FS #9677 and possibly get it merged |
| 11:59:50 | ajb | Obviously I think it improves the situation :-) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:05 | * | B4gder never used a dynamic playlist... |
| 12:00:11 | ajb | I guess it depends on how many people build playlists on Rockbox than importing them into the system |
| 12:00:33 | B4gder | and even how they do it |
| 12:00:34 | ajb | B4gder: Do you contruct all your playlists on you PC? |
| 12:00:40 | B4gder | no |
| 12:01:11 | ajb | B4gder: So how do you deal with them? |
| 12:01:21 | B4gder | create a playlist, then play it |
| 12:01:38 | B4gder | I can't say I create them very often, I usually have a few large ones |
| 12:02:01 | kugel | ajb: does it fix that the database browser acts weird? |
| 12:02:19 | kugel | you always get the warning in the database browser, no matter of the previous playlist |
| 12:02:44 | ajb | You mean even if it hasn't been changed? |
| 12:03:01 | kugel | does FS #9677 fix it? |
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| 12:03:37 | * | ajb checks |
| 12:04:47 | Llorean | kugel: I would expect there to need to be some logic for it to work well |
| 12:04:59 | Llorean | The database doesn't have "folders" |
| 12:05:13 | pixelma | kugel: I don't understand your "bug" description, could you explain more? |
| 12:05:30 | Llorean | And queries can have different results each time they're invoked, so a playlist from it will never be the same as one from the filetree (which is more or less assumed to be unchanging) |
| 12:05:51 | Llorean | pixelma: If you click select on a song in a folder so that you "play" the folder, you don't get the dynamic playlist warning when you try to play something else. |
| 12:06:05 | Llorean | You only get the warning if you've used "insert" or similar |
| 12:06:34 | Llorean | In the database, you always get it, because clicking "select" on a song actually involves basically using the "insert" behind the scenes (IIUC) |
| 12:06:51 | ajb | Correct. I've just tested. Load a playlist, select a song from the DB and it jumps straight to it without warning (as the old playlist isn't modified) |
| 12:06:57 | gartral | as far as playlists go, i ussually just play a folder of music, or play party mode |
| 12:07:13 | ajb | kugel: Is that what you mean? |
| 12:07:21 | pixelma | Llorean: now I'm even more confused, I would have expected it the other way round |
| 12:07:39 | Llorean | pixelma: IIUC it *always* warns when your previous playlist came from the database. |
| 12:07:58 | pixelma | seems I need to experiment |
| 12:08:01 | ajb | If you then select another song after that you get a warning as the playlist is a fresh dynamic one. |
| 12:08:17 | Llorean | Basically, "Folders", if you don't modify them, aren't considered a dynamic playlist. |
| 12:08:31 | Llorean | But database queries such as a whole album are considered dynamic. |
| 12:08:36 | * | gartral nods too Llorean, "thats what ive seen everytime i switch what im listening too |
| 12:08:48 | ajb | But the menu then is "Save as /Playlists/dynamic/m38u", as... or No (Changes will be lost) |
| 12:08:56 | kugel | ajb: no |
| 12:09:18 | pixelma | I usually switch the warning off, that's why I have no idea what happens currently |
| 12:09:21 | * | ajb re-reads |
| 12:10:11 | kugel | this was my main concern when it has been enabled by default |
| 12:10:46 | Llorean | People can still turn it off... |
| 12:10:53 | ajb | kugel: It might be easier if you just apply the patch and tell me what you think it should do. Certainly any loaded playlist will not trigger the warning unless it has been modified. I could change the logic to skip dynamic playlists if there are only one song and an unnamed playlist |
| 12:11:06 | kugel | btw: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9660 |
| 12:11:09 | pixelma | Llorean: are you saying that if I still have a current playlist and then select a song in a folder, it will not warn me about creating a new playlist (and is this a folder in the file or database browser)? |
| 12:11:37 | Llorean | pixelma: No. I'm saying "click select on a song in a folder. Then while listening, click select somewhere else and you won't get warned." |
| 12:11:41 | kugel | this is the bug report on that one |
| 12:11:51 | Llorean | Because it's just the one folder, with no modifications, it doesn't issue the warning. |
| 12:12:42 | pixelma | ah, in the same folder? Never tried that... |
| 12:12:57 | Llorean | pixelma: Then, if you do the same thing with the database (go to database, browse to an album, click select on a song, then while playing click select on any other song) you'll always get a warning (because database queries aren't handled the same way folders are) |
| 12:13:00 | Llorean | Any folder. |
| 12:13:47 | kugel | pixelma: the link explains it. the "expected behavior" is what you get by file browsing |
| 12:13:49 | Llorean | The trick is that if you don't use "Insert" (if you're just playing the contents of one folder, launched with a single click of select) it's assumed that you don't "lose" anything so there's no need for a warning - you never *really* created a dynamic playlist. |
| 12:14:00 | Llorean | kugel: Yes, but the problem is this is a bad expectation. |
| 12:14:29 | Llorean | kugel: The reason you don't get a warning with the filetree is that the filetree is considered "static". If it changes, it's because a user explicitly deleted a song from a folder. The database changes itself. |
| 12:15:10 | Llorean | The playlist code will need to be able to differentiate what sort of query was used to create the playlist (was it a manual search? Based on Runtime? Or just an album) before it can reliably decide whether or not to warn. |
| 12:15:18 | Llorean | Albums are not folders. |
| 12:15:28 | pixelma | huh? Unless I'm still misunderstanding (which wouldn't surprise me) then I *think* that was different once but I really stop here until I tried |
| 12:15:29 | ajb | Ok so th scenario as described in 9660 still occurs as playlist_modified(NULL) returns TRUE |
| 12:15:30 | kugel | it's bad expectation to expect the database do not behave different from the file browser? |
| 12:15:49 | Llorean | kugel: The database ISN'T a file browser |
| 12:15:53 | Llorean | Why would you expect it to behave the same? |
| 12:16:06 | Llorean | If you enter "Recently Played" it will be different nearly every time |
| 12:16:18 | Llorean | That means a playlist from it will be different every time. |
| 12:16:26 | kugel | Why should I expect (as a user), that if I plainly selected albums to play from, that this will issue the warning? |
| 12:16:27 | Llorean | If you're happy with the one you've got now it should *certainly* warn before you launch other files. |
| 12:16:43 | kugel | sure the inner workings are different, but it's still a bug imo |
| 12:16:48 | Llorean | kugel: If you're selecting a single album, why can't you select it from filetree? |
| 12:17:03 | Llorean | It's not a bug if it's working as intended... |
| 12:17:11 | kugel | I don't think it's working as intended |
| 12:17:13 | Llorean | Your desire for it to work differently is a feature request. |
| 12:17:21 | Llorean | kugel: It's working as the designer intended. |
| 12:17:27 | Llorean | You don't get to define intended. |
| 12:17:30 | ajb | kugel: This is not really what I was trying to address in 9677, that simply tries to make the "About to erase dynamic playlist" more useful |
| 12:17:47 | kugel | How do you know it's working as intended? I don't get your whole argumentation |
| 12:17:53 | | Quit _lifeless (Remote closed the connection) |
| 12:17:55 | ajb | kugel: The logic about detecting if a playlist is modified is unchanged |
| 12:18:04 | Llorean | kugel: Until all the fancy logic's in to determine whether it's a static database query or a self-modifying one, it really should be safe and warn always, rather than never. |
| 12:18:15 | kugel | if I play an album in the database, that album doesn't change, no other albums don't change. so it should behave as if I selected a folder |
| 12:18:20 | Llorean | kugel: What do you mean "How do I know it's working as intended"? |
| 12:18:30 | kugel | "no other albums do change"* |
| 12:18:49 | Llorean | The playlisting code _doesn't know_ you selected an album. |
| 12:19:13 | Llorean | Playlisting is _entirely_ filename based. |
| 12:19:29 | Llorean | What you get out of the database, in the end, is a list of filenames. |
| 12:19:55 | kugel | yes, as you get when selecting a folder |
| 12:20:05 | Llorean | Except when you select a folder, they're all "real" |
| 12:20:09 | kugel | and albums in the database are static |
| 12:20:24 | kugel | the filenames are real in both cases |
| 12:20:29 | Llorean | But the playlist code doesn't know it's an album. |
| 12:20:39 | Llorean | There's no difference between an album and a genre and a recently played list. |
| 12:20:42 | Llorean | They're all database queries. |
| 12:21:57 | kugel | the point is, the warning is supposed to be issued when you manually changed the current playlist. and this isn't given by simply selecting songs in the database |
| 12:21:58 | ajb | If I start playing an album from the File Browser and then select another one it doesn't trigger as playlist_modified(NULL) returns false. |
| 12:22:25 | Llorean | kugel: The warning is meant to be issued when you're erasing a dynamic playlist |
| 12:22:28 | Llorean | It says NOTHING about manual changes. |
| 12:22:36 | Llorean | When you're playing a folder, you haven't really created a playlist. |
| 12:22:44 | Llorean | When you select a song in the database, a dynamic playlist is created. |
| 12:23:42 | tmzt | what causes a playlist to be added to catalog? it's not automatic from what I can see |
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| 12:24:02 | Llorean | tmzt: The playlist catalog isn't covered in the manual? |
| 12:24:03 | ajb | But if you then "Insert" a track into a playing folder you then get a dynamic playlist |
| 12:24:04 | kugel | I see your point, but it's still a bug for me |
| 12:24:10 | linuxstb | The problem (IMO) is that the database doesn't store the queries used to generate a playlist - it inserts all the tracks individually. The file browser does store the "query". Hopefully someone one day will be motivated to fix that... |
| 12:24:15 | pixelma | I'm pretty sure this warning happened when I played a list from a folder and then "clicked" on a different song in a different folder. The playlist will be replaced, if it would "insert" the new tracks you would have a longer list consisting of tracks from both folders. Looks like it doesn't currently though |
| 12:24:50 | * | pixelma confused |
| 12:24:52 | linuxstb | I also think that from a user's point of view, the database and file browser should act the same |
| 12:25:04 | kugel | exactly |
| 12:25:11 | Llorean | linuxstb: It might be better to just always warn, then. |
| 12:25:52 | Llorean | linuxstb: For the database I'm not sure storing the query is good enough |
| 12:26:01 | Llorean | What do you do when the contents of the playlist don't match the query? |
| 12:26:07 | tmzt | Llorean: I see you have to save it as a file, that requires giving it a name? I'm wondering because the automatic playlists aren't saved and the keyboard just causes them to be named .m3u8 or something like that |
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| 12:26:26 | kugel | Llorean: In this case, warn, I'd say |
| 12:26:30 | linuxstb | Llorean: What's the difference in that respect between the file browser and the database? Both will change if the user changes the files on the disk. |
| 12:26:39 | Llorean | kugel: But the playlist was never changed... the query results were |
| 12:26:57 | Llorean | linuxstb: The database will change even if the user *doesn't* though |
| 12:27:08 | Llorean | It has all those runtime filters you can include in a query |
| 12:27:27 | kugel | if (last_query =! playlist_to_be_deleted) warn, else destroy |
| 12:27:30 | Llorean | It's possible to create a playlist where you listen to a song, and then because you listened to it, the same query won't create that playlist again. |
| 12:27:41 | ajb | Aside from the all these arguments about when a playlist is considered modified what about the action rockbox takes when it detects it is modified (however that might be). |
| 12:28:11 | kugel | those runtime gathering based playlist are certainly a bit harder, but for simply selecting albums and stuff this should be sufficient |
| 12:28:27 | Llorean | kugel: Yes but they're the problem. |
| 12:28:54 | kugel | Every selection issues the warning, not only the runtime gathering based ones |
| 12:29:23 | kugel | those which are certainly static, albums and artist for example, shouldn't issue the warning |
| 12:29:29 | Llorean | Yes, but you can't fix the static ones without fixing the runtime generated ones unless you're just saying "I don't care if I introduce a new bug, as long as it lets me use the queries *I* want to use without warnings" |
| 12:30:10 | PaulJam | kugel: but how should the playlist code know if the playlist was created from a static or a dynamic database query? |
| 12:30:58 | kugel | it could check if the previous query still gives the playlist which is going to be destroyed |
| 12:31:17 | kugel | or flag database selections, and remove the flag upon manually editting |
| 12:31:37 | Llorean | kugel: But that means it won't seem to behave like the file browser. |
| 12:31:46 | Llorean | You can click select, not modify the playlist, and still get the warning because the query changed. |
| 12:32:14 | Llorean | Isn't it better just to tell people, up front, the database _doesn't_ work like the file browser, rather than trying to make it seem to then surprise them in odd ways when it doesn't? |
| 12:32:29 | kugel | I don't think so |
| 12:32:56 | Llorean | People have brains. They can understand "It's not a file browser." |
| 12:33:01 | Llorean | The warning isn't going to kill them either. |
| 12:33:38 | kugel | "You can click select, not modify the playlist, and still get the warning because the query changed." I don't understand that |
| 12:34:14 | n1s | the easiest fix would be to make it always warn for the file browser too (when the setting is enabled) |
| 12:34:19 | kugel | if you select something in the database, you could check if the previous query still matches for the playlist which is to be deleted, before doing stuff to it |
| 12:34:41 | n1s | in fact i don't see why we shouldn't just because it's only a single dir... |
| 12:35:25 | Llorean | n1s: I have no problem with that solution personally |
| 12:35:29 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:35:45 | kugel | well, that's surely possible and would band-aid it, but including removing the point of that warning imo |
| 12:36:20 | Llorean | kugel: My point is that it will _never_ work like the file browser. If you select a query, then listen, the query itself can change rather than the playlist. So the query won't match the playlist even though the user made no manual changes. |
| 12:36:39 | Llorean | So the user didn't modify the dynamic playlist, but the playlist doesn't match. |
| 12:36:43 | linuxstb | So currentlly, playing a directory isn't considered a "dynamic playlist" by the "warn when erasing dynamic playlist" option? |
| 12:36:51 | Llorean | linuxstb: Exactly |
| 12:36:58 | linuxstb | Then I agree, it should do. |
| 12:37:10 | Llorean | If you just click select on a song it's not "dynamic" because it's assumed the folder itself serves as the playlist. |
| 12:37:13 | pixelma | as I said, I think it did once |
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| 12:39:00 | kugel | why not flag every playlist which is created by just selecting music as un-modified, then remove that flag upon every manual change, and then warn if the playlist has been modified |
| 12:39:33 | kugel | I haven't looked too much into the code, but from theory it sounds doable |
| 12:40:05 | Llorean | kugel: Because then you lose manual database queries. |
| 12:40:25 | kugel | the flag would be set in the database as well |
| 12:40:36 | Llorean | I know... |
| 12:40:52 | Llorean | You would lose manual queries where you generated a playlist by, say, searching for a certain term then clicking select on the first item |
| 12:41:01 | kugel | then I didn't exactly get what you mean. As I said, I haven't looked into the respective code |
| 12:41:10 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 12:41:37 | Llorean | The database isn't just "select a file in an album" |
| 12:41:44 | kugel | I know |
| 12:41:49 | Llorean | It's also a quick and easy way to "Insert" a lot of songs that you'd have to browse around for otherwise |
| 12:42:02 | Llorean | In _those_ cases it shouldn't act like it's unmodified even if you have just used "select" to start playback |
| 12:42:56 | kugel | hm, that's debatable. imo it shouldn't even warn in those cases |
| 12:43:08 | Llorean | Why not? |
| 12:43:11 | Llorean | They're not static at all. |
| 12:43:19 | kugel | yes. |
| 12:43:27 | Llorean | If it shouldn't warn in those, it shouldn't warn if you insert several folders, because those folders aren't going anywhere... |
| 12:43:41 | Llorean | I understand you don't like the warning, but you CAN just turn it off. |
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| 12:44:08 | kugel | as I said, "and then warn if the playlist has been modified", that's not exactly what the warn on dynamic playlist is supposed to do, yes |
| 12:44:26 | Llorean | It's supposed to warn you if you're about to lose a dynamic playlist |
| 12:44:31 | kugel | well, I would really like to use the warning, but as of now, it's unusable for me |
| 12:44:34 | Llorean | It's not called "warn on modified playlist" |
| 12:44:42 | kugel | Yes, I know |
| 12:45:02 | kugel | part of my suggestion was to warn on modified ones, not when deleting the dynamic |
| 12:45:15 | Llorean | So you want to change what the feature does? |
| 12:45:49 | kugel | In this regard yes. A modified one is always a dynamic one, the opposite isn't always the case |
| 12:46:09 | Llorean | Yes, unmodified does not mean "not dynamic" |
| 12:46:14 | Llorean | And when what is modified, exactly? What is the "basis" upon which modifications happen? |
| 12:46:52 | * | kugel 's battery is empty |
| 12:47:01 | Llorean | Just saying "any time you use insert it's modified" means a lot of cases there won't be a warning when someone will lose the results of a database query. So we're making them go back through using the dynamic keyboard (which sucks) because we chose not to warn them. |
| 12:47:01 | | Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.5/2008121622]") |
| 12:47:53 | * | Llorean really thinks "warning too often" is always preferable to "not warning enough and allowing easy data loss." |
| 12:47:59 | Llorean | That's we we defaulted it to "on" in the first place |
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| 12:59:26 | * | ajb ponders completion for the virtual keyboard.... |
| 13:00 |
| 13:05:21 | gartral | ajb, whats wrong with the vkb? |
| 13:05:47 | kadoban | i like the kbd a ton more now that i switched the layout |
| 13:05:53 | ajb | gartral: slow, especially if you want to put a path in. It would be nice if -> cycled through completions |
| 13:06:07 | Zagor | it's horriby unintuitive. I'm not sure it can be intuitive, but that doesn't change the fact... |
| 13:06:16 | ajb | gartral: And the default keymap sucks... but thats just IMHO |
| 13:06:20 | gartral | ahh, like tab in a terminal, yea, that would be nice |
| 13:06:26 | ajb | indeed |
| 13:06:40 | gartral | i agree there, may i post a pastebin of my default? |
| 13:06:42 | Llorean | Zagor: I think if we just had text for "done" that you could highlight, and on-screen arrow keys it'd help tons. |
| 13:06:42 | ajb | I'm looking at the code now but it's a bit messy to follow |
| 13:06:43 | kadoban | on e200 the keymap for it already confuses me as well...i should change that |
| 13:07:06 | Llorean | Zagor: Instead of using physical keys for backspace/navigation, onscreen virtual ones would work better for most people not familiar with the controls. |
| 13:07:19 | ajb | Is KBD_MORSE_INPUT used? |
| 13:07:22 | Zagor | Llorean: yeah. "done" and "cancel" virtual buttons would make it much better |
| 13:07:35 | Llorean | Zagor: Done, Cancel, Left, Right, and Backspace I think |
| 13:08:07 | Zagor | yup |
| 13:08:20 | ajb | Ahh I see, an iRiver feature |
| 13:08:29 | pixelma | left/right? |
| 13:08:34 | Zagor | pixelma: in the string |
| 13:08:45 | kadoban | ajb: it used to be usable on different targets, i was using it on e200 for a while (that was a long time ago though) |
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| 13:09:16 | * | ajb wonders why the code isn't split ... the #ifdefs make for very confusing reading |
| 13:09:59 | ajb | Is morse on top of the normal scroll & click vkbd actions? |
| 13:10:02 | pixelma | Zagor/ Llorean: and how do you access those "buttons" on the screen? (unless I'm misunderstanding again... |
| 13:10:19 | Zagor | pixelma: just like you access the characters. |
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| 13:11:12 | Llorean | ajb: There's some key combination for activating morse mode, I believe. It's probably in the manual. |
| 13:12:41 | ajb | hmm I think I'll leave this for now. The code could do with some TLC and refactoring to follow easily enough |
| 13:12:53 | pixelma | Zagor: among the characters or above? Btw. then I think left/right isn't needed if "line edit" mode is enabled everywhere, keeping the shortcuts for knowledgeable users and where possible |
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| 13:13:46 | Zagor | pixelma: above or below the characters, I guess. it probably depends on how much room there is on each target. |
| 13:13:58 | ajb | Is the function length so long to save stack for subroutines or just because of organic growth? |
| 13:16:08 | gartral | would it be possible too display a second warning before saving changes too a text file if its a "system" file? i know it seems redundant, but it would be useful to point out the fact that "version.txt is a system file, and changing it may cause undisired results" or something? |
| 13:17:41 | Llorean | The .rockbox folder's already hidden. |
| 13:17:58 | gartral | but version.txt is in the root |
| 13:18:09 | Llorean | Not normally. |
| 13:18:11 | pixelma | version.txt is not a system file (of Rockbox) |
| 13:18:13 | linuxstb | pixelma: They should/could be positionable via the .kbd file. e.g. using codes like %x (%% to display a real % symbol) |
| 13:18:27 | Llorean | Or, I'm thinking rockbox-info.txt |
| 13:18:37 | gartral | and changing it does cause rbutil to not read the device correctly |
| 13:19:32 | pixelma | I thought the Rockbox Utility relied on the USB IDs? |
| 13:20:06 | pixelma | linuxstb: I thought the topic was the default keyboard |
| 13:20:21 | Llorean | pixelma: It's more the difficulty in that screen in general |
| 13:20:32 | Llorean | No matter what the keyboard is, right now you're also constrained by the keymap |
| 13:20:49 | Llorean | Some virtual control keys on the keyboard could help with this a lot |
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| 13:21:12 | gartral | it does as a secondary action if it cant find version.txt, but the current (m1.0.9) reports no sansa found if it cant find the version.txt file |
| 13:21:24 | linuxstb | pixelma: Isn't that displayed the same way - i.e. with a built-in default .kbd file? |
| 13:21:28 | gartral | \(with Sansas, obviously, :)) |
| 13:22:17 | pixelma | linuxstb: no idea |
| 13:22:45 | pixelma | Llorean: what about line edit mode then? |
| 13:23:19 | linuxstb | pixelma: Looking at the code, it is - see around line 310 of apps/recorder/keyboard.c (and later for different LCD sizes) |
| 13:23:38 | pixelma | it would seem the same to me - finding out how to access some left/right button or how to access the input line |
| 13:23:52 | Llorean | pixelma: I don't think the virtual keys are mutually exclusive. |
| 13:24:24 | Llorean | Having the controls visible takes some of the guessing out of it, plus we can keep all the old controls for faster/easier use if you know what you're doing. |
| 13:24:51 | pixelma | thinking about screen estate |
| 13:30:54 | kadoban | is there some way i can tell how deep my recursion depth can go on various targets? (ballpark will probably do) |
| 13:31:03 | kadoban | (in a plugin, if it matters) |
| 13:31:24 | pixelma | I'm just talking about left or right "virtual" buttons here, if that wasn't clear enough |
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| 13:37:32 | gartral | another hurtle too consider is how will the users construct there own custom vkbs with these buttons, as it is, makeing your own vkb isn't hard at all |
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| 13:38:29 | kadoban | if the virtual buttons were optional, even if they messed them up, they just wouldn't have virtual buttons |
| 13:45:17 | gartral | http://gar.pastebin.com/m29610bd7 <- this my layout, also, it would be nice if we could have a way to "save" a custom layout over the (imho) bulky default |
| 13:46:45 | PaulJam | what do you mean by "save"? do you mean to keep the layout across reboots? |
| 13:47:06 | gartral | yea |
| 13:47:19 | PaulJam | put it into the .rockbox directory. |
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| 13:50:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:50:54 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
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| 13:59:47 | gartral | does the name matter? |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:02:36 | linuxstb | gartral: No, but it probably needs to be relatively short (less than 32 chars I am guessing) |
| 14:06:42 | kadoban | is there some way to change the title of a flyspray entry? |
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| 14:08:39 | gartral | umm, i want too test the patch in fs#8663 and post if it works in http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortalPlayerUsb, could i have wiki right permission? my realname is Gareth Schakel |
| 14:09:03 | gartral | er, i guess i should say "how it works" |
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| 14:13:39 | kugel | Llorean: I thought a bit about the previous discussion during my downtime |
| 14:14:57 | kugel | basically, if every playlist, which is formed by selecting anything but a playlist file (i.e. .m3u[8]), then yes, the file browser should indeed warn too |
| 14:15:21 | * | kugel adds a "is considered as dynamic" where appropriate |
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| 14:16:57 | kugel | but personally, I'd like to get warned only if I made manual changes, even if it was such a dynamic playlist. So, my conclusion is that there should be an additional setting, like "warn on deleting current playlists: if dynamic; if modifed; never" (maybe a always option too) |
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| 14:18:08 | kugel | and yes, the current behavior should at least be made consistent, such as warn in the file browser too |
| 14:18:53 | * | Llorean thinks the database needs to be less like the filetree, not more. |
| 14:19:04 | Llorean | So people don't immediately think it's a bug when "Follow Playlist" doesn't work, etc. |
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| 14:19:34 | Llorean | If there were a clearer distinction between them, the differences in behaviour would seem less like bugs and more like simple differences between the two. |
| 14:20:46 | gartral | ok, fullspeed USB too a 4gig transcend mSDHC class 6 card works great, yet too test a USB highspeed build |
| 14:21:48 | kugel | JdGordon: ping |
| 14:25:06 | linuxstb | Llorean: I would want the opposite - things like "follow playlist" to work in the database... |
| 14:25:16 | Llorean | linuxstb: That's more or less impossible though. |
| 14:25:26 | Llorean | Most songs don't even have a unique database entry. |
| 14:25:32 | Llorean | They usually show up several times. |
| 14:25:59 | kugel | well, depends on how you save the query |
| 14:26:04 | Llorean | kugel: Not really |
| 14:26:12 | Llorean | The query your playlist was generated from may not even exist any more |
| 14:26:26 | Llorean | For example if it came from "unplayed songs", by the time you try to "follow" it it may not exist in unplayed songs any more |
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| 14:26:52 | kugel | I don't say safe the query in the playlist. just save it, keep it in memory or whatever |
| 14:26:58 | Llorean | The most consistent way you could do it is "even if started from the database, follow playlist takes you to the real file" since that's always unique |
| 14:27:08 | Llorean | kugel: It doesn't matter where you save it. |
| 14:27:19 | Llorean | The results on a query won't always be the same every time that query is run. |
| 14:27:57 | kugel | I just want to say it's basically possible, sure it needs refinement for such (rare?) conditions |
| 14:28:06 | Llorean | It's impossible to always work. |
| 14:28:13 | Llorean | The best you can get is "usually" |
| 14:28:24 | kugel | well, that would be enough imo |
| 14:28:44 | Llorean | Because unexpected behaviour is fine? |
| 14:28:55 | Llorean | Wouldn't it be better to always _actually_ follow the playlist, so there's never any surprise? |
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| 14:29:46 | Llorean | I don't see the sense in doing it a way that is sometimes broken and sometime fine, when there's a perfectly viable "always fine" alternative. |
| 14:29:55 | kugel | I don't think it's necessarily unexpected if the query isn't possible anymore, and if, just print a warning that because of blah following the playlist failed |
| 14:30:16 | kugel | always broken, rather |
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| 14:30:34 | Llorean | And do you plan to write the database queries in the file, or will "follow playlist" only work on the database if dynamic, but if it's a saved playlist, silently go back to following files? |
| 14:31:32 | linuxstb | Llorean: You simply take the user to the list in the database that the track was added from |
| 14:31:32 | kugel | it's all depends of how much of a database-lover one is. I am such database-lover, which means I'm very happy if a feature that works perfectly for the file browser would work in 95% of the time in the database too |
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| 14:32:08 | Llorean | linuxstb: So if a track was added from a list, but isn't in the list any more, we show them the list that doesn't have their track in it? |
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| 14:32:33 | kugel | the node above would be sufficient |
| 14:32:42 | Llorean | kugel: How is that "following" then? |
| 14:32:43 | kugel | plus the warning, that following failed |
| 14:32:51 | Llorean | The whole point of "follow playlist" is to take you to the song playing |
| 14:32:55 | Llorean | If you get somewhere else, it's broken |
| 14:33:01 | linuxstb | Llorean: We simply get rid of dynamic tags ;) |
| 14:33:03 | Llorean | Following _never_ needs to fail |
| 14:33:04 | Llorean | Ever. |
| 14:33:08 | Llorean | just take them to the file |
| 14:33:42 | kugel | You don't use the database much, do you? |
| 14:34:21 | Llorean | I don't understand your line of logic. "I like the database, so we should use it even when it's unnecessary and creates unpredictable behaviour." |
| 14:34:40 | kugel | it's surely not unpredictable |
| 14:34:45 | jhMikeS | amiconn: I was under the impression only c200/e200 needed that method and then made aware it wasn't as simple as that. So, I'm working on just making standard for the USB stack. |
| 14:34:53 | Llorean | kugel: It is for the user until they've seen it fail a few times in different ways |
| 14:35:16 | kugel | if you browse and select something in "never played", it's very predictable that following won't quite work in this case |
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| 14:35:58 | Llorean | kugel: But it could be predictable |
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| 14:36:02 | Llorean | What's _wrong_ with showing them the file? |
| 14:36:29 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: Also, do I understand correctly that the new check disabled in the bootloaders? I thought the e200/c200 did USB detection in the bootloaders. |
| 14:36:31 | kugel | well, simply that it leads to the filebrowser, for people which probably expect to land in the database |
| 14:36:47 | * | kugel would expect that too |
| 14:37:11 | Llorean | kugel: But it'd be 100% consistent. You'd only need to learn a single quirk, instead of several. |
| 14:37:16 | kugel | but that's not a feature that I'm looking forward to, since I imagine it will introduce some complexity, which isn't worth it |
| 14:37:20 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: It is disabled there since the full driver isn't available it only ever checked the pin state and rebooted. |
| 14:37:50 | kugel | yes, I learned to live with it, and turned follow playlist off |
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| 14:52:58 | JdGordon | kugel: sup? |
| 14:53:29 | kugel | JdGordon: I'd like to finalize custom list vp soonish |
| 14:53:46 | JdGordon | as would I |
| 14:54:04 | * | kugel thinks it rotted long enough :p |
| 14:54:51 | kugel | I have two questions: how to handle screens that aren't exactly lists, but would probably wanted to have this parent too? |
| 14:55:35 | kugel | and, how to parse the custom list, either via your viewport manager thing (such as viewportmanager_set_customlist), or via a parameter in viewport_set_defaults |
| 14:55:38 | kugel | ? |
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| 14:57:23 | JdGordon | well... firstly, I've changed my mind about this... (well changed ages ago but we ahvnt talked about it for a while...) I'm more inclined towards the WPS/theme setting aside a viewport which the rest of the UI uses, so its not the lists which are getting the viewport.. its the whole "screen" |
| 14:57:32 | kugel | in it's current form, it's basically easily possible to have arbitary custom parents, such as "quickscreen vp" in the settings, and use that for the quickscreen |
| 14:58:06 | | Join AndyI [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 14:58:07 | kugel | or, fall back to list parent for every screen that shows the backdrop (for simplicity) |
| 14:58:39 | kugel | which would be the same as a "rest of UI parent" |
| 14:59:05 | JdGordon | I dont see the need to ever specify more than 1 viewport outside of the WPS |
| 14:59:11 | kugel | JdGordon: so, you basically say now what I always said? |
| 14:59:18 | kugel | exactly |
| 14:59:35 | JdGordon | the only possible exception is if we take things further and have context menus/screens a seperate one |
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| 14:59:44 | * | JdGordon doesnt remember what you've always been saying |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:00:38 | kugel | when we talked about it the last time you said every screen should be able to have its own parent, and I said that would be unneeded complexity, the list parent would be suitable for all |
| 15:01:53 | kugel | anyway, I'm fine with having only 1 parent for anything but wps |
| 15:02:26 | kugel | that's what the current version already does, it would basically only need sync if we keep it like that |
| 15:02:43 | JdGordon | wait a sec... I'm not saying that screens shouldnt be setting up a parent viewport to work in... |
| 15:03:50 | kugel | screens as in "rec screen, quickscreen etc" or as in "main and remote" |
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| 15:04:40 | JdGordon | the first |
| 15:04:43 | kugel | how did you exactly mean "a viewport which the rest of the UI uses, so its not the lists which are getting the viewport.. its the whole "screen"" |
| 15:04:49 | | Part fragilematter |
| 15:05:42 | kugel | that sounds to me like the e.g. quickscreen should use the "list" viewport too |
| 15:06:50 | JdGordon | my rough idea is bassically this.... the theme/wps specifies a viewport which is stored in viewport.c and gets returned by viewport_set_Defaults() which EVERTHING MUST use |
| 15:07:09 | JdGordon | so yeah, a bit of svn needs changing to ignore parents and just use this |
| 15:07:30 | JdGordon | list is the exception because screens like time/date would need to specify where the list goes |
| 15:07:37 | kugel | oh, well, that's possible too |
| 15:08:07 | kugel | but I imagine that wouldn't work so well for plugins, or keyboard screen |
| 15:08:27 | JdGordon | plugins are a different beast |
| 15:08:54 | JdGordon | and it depends on the theme if it would actually "work" or not |
| 15:09:05 | Llorean | The vkeyboard should probably define its own viewport in the .kbd file |
| 15:09:17 | Llorean | So that the keyboard can basically say "this is how much space I _must_ have" |
| 15:09:20 | JdGordon | i.e if the theme bassically just replaces the top statusbar with something fancy and uses the remaining height for the list there would be no change |
| 15:09:30 | JdGordon | but if it uses say the AA rectangle, then things could look crap |
| 15:09:59 | * | JdGordon doesn't like the vkeyboard at all |
| 15:10:12 | * | Llorean is not the vkeyboard's biggest fan. |
| 15:10:26 | kugel | JdGordon: so we could maybe have a bool force_fullscreen in viewport_set_defaults for screens (and plugins!) which are meant to be fullscreen? |
| 15:10:30 | * | gartral likes his custom one |
| 15:10:48 | JdGordon | gartral: I dont like the system... not the layout |
| 15:10:51 | kugel | and the wps of course, if that's using viewport_set_defaults |
| 15:10:59 | JdGordon | kugel: well yeah... bassically whats done now to disable the statusbar |
| 15:11:22 | kugel | I'd rather have it as a parameter though ;) |
| 15:11:29 | JdGordon | this is why I wanted to get that stuff done and working before talking about custom list again |
| 15:11:47 | kugel | I'm back in a few minutes |
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| 15:23:33 | scorche | a new emulator seems to possibly be coming to fruit...a snippet of text from an ipodlinux channel: http://pastebin.ca/1313495 |
| 15:27:04 | | Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/kugel) |
| 15:27:11 | * | LambdaCalculus37 thinks that information should be kept by a few individuals here, in case that pastebin expires |
| 15:27:25 | * | kugel is back |
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| 15:28:28 | kugel | JdGordon: so would rather have it like viewportmanager_set_customlist(bool yes) instead of a force_fullscreen parameter for viewport_set_defaults? |
| 15:30:07 | JdGordon | kugel: no, for 2 reasons... 1) it should be a PITA for screens to not use the specified viewport, and 2) compiled-code-wise.. thats basically wasting a param which 90% of the time would be false |
| 15:30:19 | JdGordon | so, by no.. i mean yes... |
| 15:31:08 | kugel | ok, I think i can do it |
| 15:31:54 | kugel | that means fullscreen screens are responsible for setting the custom viewport again upon leaving, or every screen makes sure on its own which parent to use? |
| 15:33:35 | JdGordon | yes, screens should always assume the "fullscreen" viewport they get is the one specified by whatever... not literally the full lcd |
| 15:34:02 | kugel | btw, I think there should be 1 global viewport which holds the custom dimensions, and every screen draws into this one (via display->set_viewport() in viewportmanager_set_customlist()), instead of having it to reparse again and again |
| 15:35:12 | kugel | which would render viewport_set_defaults rather useless |
| 15:37:34 | kugel | JdGordon: opinion on that? |
| 15:37:36 | JdGordon | what reparseing? viewport_set_defaults does copies... of course we dont store a string and reparse that every time.... |
| 15:38:46 | kugel | well, but we could also set viewportmanager_set_customlist do set_viewport() globally (either the custom or the fullscreen one) |
| 15:39:15 | kugel | hm, no, that wouldn't work so well I suppose |
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| 15:56:16 | scorche | LambdaCalculus37: it is set to expire in a year, but it is in mine and likely others' logs forever... |
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| 16:19:48 | saratoga | sscorche: has that guy working on the emulator seen the rockbox emulator Toni started? |
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| 16:20:06 | saratoga | i believe he'd implemented some of the PP hardware already |
| 16:23:07 | scorche|sh | saratoga: no idea...i shall have to point him to it though |
| 16:25:19 | saratoga | Toni's could actually run the good bit of the Sansa bootloader, so I figure he must have implemented some of the hardware |
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| 16:32:16 | jhMikeS | what are these #ifdef STUB things in crt0-pp.S? It is it some atavistic IPL thing? :p |
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| 16:47:15 | KennW | Hey guys,so what's going on atm? |
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| 16:48:56 | scorche|sh | KennW: i am not sure if you are aware, but this is a technical channel -not a social one...you might want to read the topic |
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| 16:57:25 | KennW | Where can the topic be read? |
| 16:58:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | Try typing /topic. |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:15:48 | Willwolfe | Does the bootloader change the workings of rockbox or simply load it? |
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| 18:18:09 | Llorean | Willwolfe: The bootloader initializes hardware. |
| 18:18:16 | Llorean | This can have an effect on things. |
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| 18:21:08 | Willwolfe | So a rebuild of the bootloader may or may not be necessary in subsequent builds depending on whether commits have refered to hardware? I am guessing it should be built every time as well to ensure compatibility? |
| 18:21:09 | | Quit Comokanu (Client Quit) |
| 18:21:39 | Llorean | We release binary bootloader builds |
| 18:22:09 | Llorean | There should generally be no reason to custom build your own bootloader unless you've personally made a change to the bootloader, or unless we mention in the changelog new bootloaders will be necessary. |
| 18:25:02 | | Join sarixe` [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:25:15 | Willwolfe | By release do you mean through svn or through the rockbox website? |
| 18:25:46 | Willwolfe | I was referring to build using the configure tool for the current revision? |
| 18:26:01 | Willwolfe | Certainly not making my own changes. |
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| 18:27:21 | Unhelpful | the bootloader doesn't change in substantial ways very often |
| 18:28:09 | Llorean | Willwolfe: Through the website / utility. |
| 18:28:17 | Llorean | You should really never compile your own bootloader |
| 18:32:09 | | Join QuickStart [0] (n=QUICKSTA@pool-72-88-190-6.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:32:23 | QuickStart | can I ask a quick question? |
| 18:33:06 | Llorean | QuickStart: We actually ask that you go ahead and ask, rather than asking to ask, as long as it's a Rockbox question |
| 18:33:22 | QuickStart | ok |
| 18:33:39 | QuickStart | what is the bmp restricitions for creating a theme for a sansa e200 series |
| 18:33:41 | QuickStart | ? |
| 18:33:47 | QuickStart | other then resolution |
| 18:34:24 | Llorean | A total number of pixels approximately equal to a bit more than twice the total number of pixels on the screen |
| 18:35:04 | QuickStart | so resizing a png and saving it as a bmp won't do it? |
| 18:35:47 | Llorean | I'm not sure I see your reasoning, unless the small bitmap is still much larger than the screen... |
| 18:37:02 | QuickStart | here is the situtation |
| 18:37:20 | QuickStart | the png that the bmp is based of is 1200X1600 |
| 18:37:34 | Llorean | The only file that matters is the actual bitmap. |
| 18:37:38 | QuickStart | I resized it to 176x220 the size of the screen and it won't show |
| 18:37:48 | QuickStart | even after I saved it as a bmp |
| 18:38:02 | Llorean | Are you using it as a backdrop or an actual image in the WPS? |
| 18:38:18 | QuickStart | backdrop for the theme |
| 18:38:23 | QuickStart | wps hasn't been done yet |
| 18:38:42 | QuickStart | backdrop coding is as follows |
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| 18:38:56 | Llorean | Triple check that it's actually 176x220. Some programs occasionally save them one pixel too large/small, or attempt to maintain the aspect ratio giving you an imperfect size |
| 18:38:56 | QuickStart | backdrop /.rockbox/backdrops/morning.bmp |
| 18:39:18 | QuickStart | two things with that |
| 18:39:37 | QuickStart | one the picture is landscape and saves it 176x180ish |
| 18:39:44 | QuickStart | so I flip it and nothing |
| 18:40:00 | PaulJam | there is a ":" missing in the config entry |
| 18:40:01 | QuickStart | it does show up I tried a jpg to test |
| 18:40:02 | Llorean | It needs to be _exactly_ 176x220 |
| 18:40:14 | QuickStart | ah man |
| 18:40:17 | Llorean | You'll need to add in extra padding data. |
| 18:40:31 | QuickStart | its just that the image is alittle weird |
| 18:40:40 | QuickStart | it looks better in landscape |
| 18:41:38 | QuickStart | and to extend it if I were to cut it it would be difficult to recreate |
| 18:43:09 | Llorean | Honestly, none of that is really relevant. The restrictions on backdrops are that they're exactly, pixel-for-pixel the shape of the screen. |
| 18:43:29 | QuickStart | so one slip and no good I see |
| 18:43:34 | QuickStart | man what a waste |
| 18:44:06 | kadoban | QuickStart: i'm not sure what you'd like rockbox to do in that case...when it displays it would need to add borders or stretch the image anyway |
| 18:44:12 | rasher | I don't understand. Why wouldn't you resize&crop on your computer where you can control what happens |
| 18:44:38 | QuickStart | yeah its just that I want to make a theme base for a os that I represent |
| 18:45:12 | QuickStart | and to maintain the official wallpaper in its entirety instead of cutting it and doodling to fill in the rest |
| 18:45:19 | Llorean | QuickStart: What they're saying is "to display properly it would need padding anyway, because it doesn't match the size of the screen, so why not pad it on your computer so the padding is a color, and position, that you like"? |
| 18:45:34 | rasher | QuickStart: To do that you'd have to change the physical size of the display... |
| 18:45:47 | QuickStart | oh ok got you |
| 18:46:25 | | Part Llorean |
| 18:47:09 | QuickStart | just to be clear on one thing where can I get a list of codes acceptable by the theme .cfg file |
| 18:47:22 | QuickStart | I want to see to what extent I can go |
| 18:50:04 | QuickStart | is their a link I know where I can get the WPS coding but the cfg I have no idea |
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| 18:51:55 | dionoea | QuickStart: the same place as the WPS would be a good place to start looking |
| 18:52:04 | rasher | QuickStart: ThemeGuidelines lists some examples |
| 18:52:34 | QuickStart | ahh ok I understand |
| 18:52:37 | QuickStart | one more question |
| 18:52:45 | rasher | And the manual has a list of all cfg options I believe, obvoiusly not all of those apply to a theme |
| 18:52:54 | QuickStart | is is possible to make an xml to change the backdrop a different times of the day |
| 18:53:01 | rasher | No |
| 18:53:04 | QuickStart | ok |
| 18:53:09 | QuickStart | I'll check the manual then |
| 18:53:27 | dionoea | time dependant backdrops would be cool :) (but totaly useless) |
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| 18:54:08 | QuickStart | its just that my OS has the feature for the backdrop |
| 18:54:20 | rasher | I guess you could make a TSR plugin to do it, but eh.. |
| 18:55:17 | QuickStart | um can you elaborate on it |
| 18:55:51 | rasher | You'd need to write a plugin that would run in the background and change the backdrop. |
| 18:56:11 | QuickStart | so it is possible theoretically? |
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| 18:56:28 | rasher | I think so |
| 18:56:29 | kadoban | QuickStart: little is impossible if you're willing to spend the time |
| 18:56:45 | QuickStart | true |
| 18:56:46 | rasher | But it'd break if the user started another plugin |
| 18:56:56 | QuickStart | true |
| 18:57:08 | QuickStart | I guess it has to be written into the coding for the next release |
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| 18:59:16 | rasher | Don't hold your breath |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:02:09 | QuickStart | lol |
| 19:02:10 | QuickStart | true |
| 19:02:28 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 19:02:33 | QuickStart | its just I have a couple of suggestions that would make the system more home owner friendly |
| 19:04:10 | linuxstb | "home owner friendly" ? |
| 19:05:20 | * | Unhelpful has thought that at least a "make backdrop" plugin that could scale, etc, might have some users |
| 19:08:58 | QuickStart | well an alarm clock function and of course the tsr plugin and visualization funtion |
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| 19:10:43 | BigBambi | What has home owning to do with that? |
| 19:10:50 | rasher | Rockbox has an alarm feature already. |
| 19:10:56 | BigBambi | Also, some targets have an alarm |
| 19:11:33 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 19:13:24 | PaulJam | some of the demo plugins could be considered visualisations |
| 19:13:48 | Unhelpful | indeed, we could almost make a category for them. |
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| 19:16:20 | kkurbjun | kugel: you are having trouble getting the arm9 mmu running? |
| 19:16:36 | Unhelpful | amiconn: if you have the time, at some point, i think that DIV255 might be faster using umull on arm than the shift-add sequence |
| 19:20:05 | amiconn | SH1? That's not yet used, is it? |
| 19:20:55 | Unhelpful | only in test_greylib_bitmap_scale |
| 19:21:25 | QuickStart | but could they be used in tandum with other plugins? |
| 19:21:59 | Unhelpful | i'm hoping that at least the 32x32->32 multiply is reasonably speedy on sh-1? i don't think i can go lower without reworking a lot of other things, possibly in ways that are slower than now |
| 19:22:02 | amiconn | Oh, and CPU_SH doesn't exist, as there's only a single CPU of that family |
| 19:22:25 | Unhelpful | ah! what should i test against? |
| 19:22:58 | Unhelpful | CONFIG_CPU == SH7034? |
| 19:23:06 | amiconn | yep |
| 19:23:26 | amiconn | Maybe we should introdice CPU_SH for completeness... |
| 19:23:34 | amiconn | *introduce |
| 19:24:05 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 19:24:21 | Unhelpful | it wouldn't hurt, but i've committed the correction :) |
| 19:24:28 | amiconn | Although that'd be a bit too generic; there is SH1, SH2, SH-DSP, SH3, SH4 and SH5 afaik. |
| 19:25:13 | amiconn | SH2 already has a better multiplier (offering 32*32->32, as well as a full 64 bit accumulator for MAC) |
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| 19:25:24 | kugel | kkurbjun: indeed |
| 19:25:50 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Regarding DIV255 - did you check the asm? |
| 19:25:55 | kugel | kkurbjun: may I request some assistance? :) |
| 19:26:22 | kkurbjun | sure, do you have a diff of what you are currently doing? You are just getting stuck loading the main build from the bootloader? |
| 19:26:37 | gartral | the RoLo page in Wiki contains 4 links too itself, i think this is slightly confusing |
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| 19:26:51 | kkurbjun | the gigabeat F/X has the MMU enabled for both the bootloader and main biuld |
| 19:26:53 | kugel | kkurbjun: correct |
| 19:27:26 | kugel | I tried enabling in both and only the main, both didn't boot |
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| 19:27:44 | kkurbjun | the crt0.s code relies on being started from the non-virtual mapping. |
| 19:28:04 | kkurbjun | and it then enables the MMU and copies itself so that it is located at address 0 |
| 19:28:31 | | Quit archivator ("<>") |
| 19:28:37 | amiconn | If gcc is clever, this needs just 3 instructions, and takes less cycles than umull |
| 19:28:45 | kugel | kkurbjun: http://pastie.org/365851 |
| 19:29:20 | kugel | kkurbjun: from what I've noticed, the F/X procedure is supposed to be the same |
| 19:29:47 | kkurbjun | one thing to make sure of is how your linker script is setup |
| 19:30:03 | kkurbjun | becuase the F/X does it different than the other targets |
| 19:30:13 | kugel | the differences between ams and fx are: we use the IRAM, the bootloader is actually completely in IRAM (and iram is mapped to 0x0), and we don't map SDRAM to 0x0 |
| 19:30:13 | kkurbjun | you have to have the vectors at address 0 |
| 19:30:20 | QuickStart | well thanks for the help guys |
| 19:30:26 | kkurbjun | hmm |
| 19:30:36 | QuickStart | I'll be working hard and let you know if I can or will release the theme |
| 19:30:50 | kkurbjun | that may be some of the problem, I never could figure out iram on the FX, after the MMU was enabled I couldn't read or write to it |
| 19:31:02 | kugel | uh |
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| 19:31:39 | kugel | we basically must use iram |
| 19:32:18 | amiconn | kkurbjun: I'd suspect a mistake in the MMU setup |
| 19:32:20 | kugel | the ROM bootloader of the ams3525 copies the bootloader into the iram (I don't know whether this can be changed), plus on lowmem codecs are in iram |
| 19:32:34 | kugel | as3525* |
| 19:34:11 | | Join zicho [0] (n=zicho@c-6a9de355.68-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:34:22 | kugel | so, unless I got the mapping thing wrong, I don't actually see where I'm doing things wrong |
| 19:34:51 | kugel | I flushed&invalidated caches before trying to boot the main binary |
| 19:35:53 | zicho | is ipod Video the player referred to as ipod 5.5? |
| 19:36:09 | kugel | kkurbjun: does SDRAM have to be mapped to 0x0? |
| 19:36:12 | krazykit | zicho, the ipod video is the 5g and 5.5g |
| 19:36:37 | kkurbjun | kugel, I don't have access to my code tree at the moment, but my current suspicion is a problem with the linker setup and the vector code location/what/where it was linked to, I should be able to check it in more detail later.. It doesn't have to depending on how your linker is setup. |
| 19:36:50 | zicho | okay, good. does rockbox run well on that machine? is there some sort of list of what features of rockbox that are available on it? |
| 19:37:26 | kkurbjun | amiconn: that could be possible, on the F/X it was so small that it didn't really drive me to figure it out |
| 19:37:31 | kugel | kkurbjun: that could be, I pasted what I did to the linker scripts (mostly only - TTB_SIZE), linker scripts are still some kind of black magic to me |
| 19:37:39 | | Quit Darksair ("Emacs = ESC-Meta-Alt-Ctrl-Shift") |
| 19:39:20 | amiconn | kkurbjun: Yeah, IRAM is smaller than the cache on that Soc (4KB vs. 2*16KB). On AS3525 it's the opposite: 320KB IRAM, 2*8KB cache |
| 19:39:57 | amiconn | Hmm, or was it 16KB? |
| 19:40:08 | kugel | no, you're right |
| 19:41:41 | kkurbjun | kugel, I'll try to take a look at that diff with respect to the full linker script and the code in crt0.s later today.. What address is the iram located at? |
| 19:41:55 | | Quit VVlodarrius ("Ex-Chat") |
| 19:41:55 | kugel | 0x0 |
| 19:42:12 | kkurbjun | is that a register that you set to remap it, or is it always there? |
| 19:42:22 | kugel | sdram is at 0x30000000 (as per as3525 datasheet) |
| 19:42:51 | kugel | no, the iram isn't remapped explicitly |
| 19:43:13 | kugel | so, it's either the physical address, or the ROM bootloader remaps it |
| 19:43:19 | kkurbjun | the other thing that you might want to check is an objdump on rockbox.elf to make sure that the stack is not used when calling the mmu functions from crt0.s |
| 19:43:22 | zicho | is there any list of what rockbox features that works on a specific machine? |
| 19:43:22 | kugel | (I'm not exactly sure) |
| 19:43:26 | | Quit MTee (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:44:02 | kkurbjun | I made sure that they wern't when compiled for the FX with our recommended compilers, and I don't see why it would necessarily change, but it could be a problem if it is using the stack |
| 19:44:05 | kugel | kkurbjun: I also tried using C code in system_init() |
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| 19:44:21 | kkurbjun | yeah, you definately can't call that C code in crt0.s |
| 19:44:36 | kkurbjun | since it has more than 1 level of function calls it uses the stack |
| 19:44:41 | kugel | doesn't the fx do that? |
| 19:44:53 | kugel | such as bl enable_mmu? |
| 19:45:26 | kkurbjun | yeah, each of those functions are setup so that they only use the scratch registers |
| 19:46:06 | kugel | well, I used those too |
| 19:46:07 | kkurbjun | that's why one of those calls defines at least one variable later |
| 19:46:30 | kkurbjun | yeah, I wouldn't expect it to change, but just something to verify |
| 19:46:31 | PaulJam | zicho: this page lists some features: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox |
| 19:47:17 | kkurbjun | like I said though, I'll try and take a look at it later, what target is this for? |
| 19:47:22 | PaulJam | zicho: more detailed information can probably be found in the manual for the specific target. |
| 19:47:27 | zicho | PaulJam, thanks. But doesnt ipod video support USB-connection? |
| 19:47:31 | edrz | i'm attempting to install rockbox on a sansa e250r. can someone confirm that this should be possible? |
| 19:47:36 | kugel | my target is fuze |
| 19:47:46 | kkurbjun | ok, cool |
| 19:47:56 | kugel | but it should apply to all ams sansas (clip, m200v4, e200v2) |
| 19:49:45 | PaulJam | zicho: i thnink you still need the OF for USB transfers, but i'm not 100% sure. |
| 19:50:04 | kugel | kkurbjun: thanks for your help, I'm basically clueless |
| 19:50:35 | zicho | at "TargetStatus" it says "USB: NO" on the video, but in device chart it says "USB: 2.0" |
| 19:50:58 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:51:26 | kugel | kkurbjun: if it matters, enabling icache definitely works |
| 19:51:50 | | Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:51:51 | kadoban | i believe TargetStatus is talking about what rockbox can do, while the device chart is listing what the hardware is capable of |
| 19:52:04 | gevaerts | zicho: DeviceChart talks about the hardwars. TargetStatus talks about rockbox status |
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| 19:52:33 | zicho | gevaerts, so in other words, the video doesnt support USB-support with rockbox? |
| 19:53:42 | gevaerts | zicho: that's more or less it, yes. It's not a big loss though, on USB connection rockbox reboots to the Apple ROM USB mode, and when you disconnect it boots back to rockbox |
| 19:54:22 | zicho | ah, well then. so video is a good player for running rockbox? |
| 19:54:59 | gevaerts | It's certainly not a bad player, although mpeg video performance in rockbox isn't great on the video |
| 19:55:36 | PaulJam | gevaerts: but for that you can always boot the OF. |
| 19:55:40 | zicho | how come? |
| 19:55:48 | gevaerts | PaulJam: true |
| 19:56:38 | * | BigBambi would pick a few players first over the video |
| 19:56:54 | gevaerts | Because the ipod video has a big screen in comparison to its CPU performance. It has a video accelerator chip to overcome that (which is why the Apple firmware handles video fine), but that's totally undocumented and unsupported by rockbox |
| 19:56:57 | BigBambi | Not to say it is bad, just that there are better (IMO) |
| 19:57:53 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:58:17 | zicho | so which would you say is the best player to run rockbox? i had an F60 before, but it doesnt work anymore so i need to get a new one |
| 19:58:31 | | Quit TheSphinX^ ("XChat@Linux") |
| 19:58:33 | BigBambi | that depends on what you want |
| 19:58:37 | gevaerts | I'd vote the F60 :) |
| 19:58:45 | BigBambi | recording, fm, size, hd, .... |
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| 19:58:54 | Llorean | If you liked the F60, it's really currently the best at what it was good at. |
| 19:58:56 | BigBambi | F60 is a very good choice |
| 19:59:08 | zicho | yes, i liked it. |
| 19:59:13 | zicho | maybe i'll get a new F |
| 19:59:29 | zicho | and dont think i can fix my old one, i have tried |
| 19:59:41 | * | gevaerts won't recommend an X. He doesn't want competition when he sees one for sale |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:07 | zicho | lol |
| 20:00:09 | | Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:00:39 | zicho | the thing about my F is that i can read and write to it, but the ".rockbox"-directory just gives me an I/O-error when i try to do something |
| 20:01:55 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 20:02:49 | gevaerts | That sounds like either a corrupted filesystem or a bad disk |
| 20:03:24 | zicho | im betting corrupted |
| 20:04:48 | gevaerts | Have you checked it? |
| 20:05:19 | zicho | how do i do that? |
| 20:05:29 | zicho | i tired with dsck but i dont really know if i did it right |
| 20:06:12 | gevaerts | fsck? |
| 20:06:34 | zicho | yeah, typo |
| 20:06:57 | gevaerts | I use "fsck.vfat /dev/sdb1" (of course that sdb1 could be different for you) |
| 20:07:27 | edrz | it looks like I need to patch the firmware first ... according to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200RInstallation |
| 20:07:45 | BigBambi | before what? |
| 20:07:46 | edrz | but, http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/e200r-patcher/e200rpatcher.linux |
| 20:07:56 | edrz | is not found on the server. |
| 20:08:21 | rasher | edrz: where do you see this link? |
| 20:08:47 | BigBambi | http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/e200r-patcher/ |
| 20:08:47 | zicho | gevaerts, after i went through that it just says "Leaving file system unchanged." |
| 20:08:49 | rasher | edrz: append 32 or 64 to the URL, depending on whether you run 32 or 64-bit Linux |
| 20:08:58 | BigBambi | edrz: And select the one you want |
| 20:09:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | edrz: Here's a working link: http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/e200r-patcher/e200rpatcher.linux32 |
| 20:09:08 | gevaerts | zicho: did it complain about errors? |
| 20:09:34 | rasher | fsck isn't really awesome at fat iirc |
| 20:09:40 | rasher | I'd try with windows chkdisk |
| 20:09:40 | zicho | "There are differences between boot sector and its backup." was the first thing i got |
| 20:09:52 | BigBambi | rasher: I too have heard chkdsk is better |
| 20:09:56 | edrz | great. found this: http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/e200r-patcher/e200rpatcher.linux64 |
| 20:10:00 | edrz | will try |
| 20:10:11 | BigBambi | edrz: Yes, that is what three of us just told you :) |
| 20:10:24 | edrz | rasher: the broken link is under Step 1: Linux Installer |
| 20:10:27 | BigBambi | If you want the 64 bit one, then that is correct |
| 20:10:33 | rasher | edrz: in the manual? |
| 20:10:46 | edrz | on the wiki |
| 20:10:48 | edrz | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200RInstallation |
| 20:10:55 | rasher | ah right, I see you told already, sorry |
| 20:11:03 | edrz | np |
| 20:11:32 | zicho | gevaerts, do you know anything else i can try? |
| 20:12:22 | zicho | if i backup the necessary files and format the player, will work do you think? |
| 20:12:30 | gevaerts | zicho: can you put the full output on a pastebin somewhere (I'd suggest pastebin.com if you don't have a favourite yet)? |
| 20:12:47 | zicho | yeah sure |
| 20:13:04 | gevaerts | I'm not sure. The F may be a bit sensitive to reformatting, but that could as well be me misremembering |
| 20:13:46 | zicho | gevaerts, http://pastebin.com/d5dfa0499 |
| 20:14:51 | gevaerts | zicho: try fsck.vfat -a /dev/sdb1 (or whatever your device is) |
| 20:15:28 | zicho | hey that worked!!! gevaerts i fucking love you :D |
| 20:16:17 | | Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") |
| 20:17:53 | edrz | [ERR] usb_set_configuration failed (-1) |
| 20:17:59 | edrz | hrmm. :-/ |
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| 20:18:08 | | Part kkurbjun |
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| 20:18:25 | edrz | the light on the scroll ring is stuck on and it appears to be dead otherwise. |
| 20:23:39 | | Join Lear [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 20:25:03 | edrz | any suggestions? |
| 20:26:55 | rasher | edrz: That sounds like the manufacturer or rescue mode - I forget which |
| 20:27:01 | kugel | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick |
| 20:27:46 | kugel | sounds like manufacturing mode, but then again I haven't used a R series ever |
| 20:28:26 | edrz | lsusb says: Bus 005 Device 012: ID 0781:0720 SanDisk Corp. Sansa C200 series in recovery mode |
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| 20:29:50 | edrz | i'm not concerned if it doesn't come back ... it was a gift a few years ago from a clueless in-law. it's been in the box untill recently when I wondered if rockbox supported it. |
| 20:30:12 | edrz | but, /me tries to unbrick. |
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| 20:31:59 | edrz | ok. holding down power and |<< brought it back. |
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| 20:36:55 | edrz | but, still e200rpatcher can't see it. |
| 20:37:40 | gevaerts | edrz: are you sure it's an e200r and not a mislabeled e200? |
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| 20:38:56 | edrz | no, i'm not sure. lsusb says it's a c200. |
| 20:39:14 | kugel | what usb modes do you have? |
| 20:40:02 | edrz | rhapsody and "plays for sure", which I gather means it's an r. |
| 20:40:42 | gevaerts | It is, yes |
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| 20:41:39 | edrz | so, it's set to that. |
| 20:41:42 | edrz | i power off. |
| 20:41:48 | kugel | if it says rhapsody and play-for-sure it's ae200R, otherwise (i.e.MSC and MTP as usb modes) e200 |
| 20:41:49 | edrz | turn on hold |
| 20:41:49 | kugel | edrz: I assume you can differentiate between e200 and c200? |
| 20:42:13 | edrz | on the back it says e250r. |
| 20:42:15 | kugel | yea |
| 20:42:41 | kugel | did you make sure to run e200rpatcher with admin/root privileges (e.g. sudo ./e200rpatcher)? |
| 20:42:47 | edrz | doh. |
| 20:42:48 | edrz | sorry |
| 20:42:55 | edrz | stupid |
| 20:44:25 | edrz | grr. sorry. worked as root. |
| 20:45:17 | edrz | and thanks. |
| 20:45:20 | edrz | on to step 2 |
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| 21:01:08 | NHeal | grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
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| 21:38:34 | gartral | just wondering, but what happend the logbot? |
| 21:40:27 | Zagor | he's still here |
| 21:40:34 | kadoban | gartral: what do you mean? it seems to be there... |
| 21:41:36 | pixelma | it lost op rights in one of the netsplits probably though |
| 21:42:39 | gartral | ahh, its hiding as a normal user, im sorry, i was being lazy and not looking >.> |
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| 21:49:26 | QuickStart | is the Ubuntu theme on rockbox.org official or unofficial |
| 21:50:00 | n1s | QuickStart: i think you may need to be a bit more specific |
| 21:51:03 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:52:16 | QuickStart | for e200 sansa series |
| 21:52:25 | QuickStart | o and thank you guys for the help it did it |
| 21:54:04 | QuickStart | well aside from my previous question |
| 21:54:27 | QuickStart | is it possible to align the menus similar to how the zune main menu appears |
| 21:54:37 | QuickStart | center aligned with a preview icon in the back |
| 21:55:08 | | Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.1b3pre/20090120034652]") |
| 21:55:13 | n1s | i'm not sure what you mean by "official" any themes for rockbox not included in the builds are simply done by people and put in the wiki |
| 21:55:26 | QuickStart | oh ok |
| 21:55:40 | gartral | QuickStart: back of what? you mean icons on the right-hand side? |
| 21:56:05 | Unhelpful | perhaps he means behind the menu? i don't know, i've never seen a zune :/ |
| 21:56:32 | QuickStart | the menu basically is vertical and center aligned |
| 21:56:43 | QuickStart | the icon is behind the selected item |
| 21:56:56 | QuickStart | and the text is helvetica |
| 21:57:02 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 21:57:03 | QuickStart | I can mess with the fonts but |
| 21:57:08 | QuickStart | the rest I don't know how |
| 21:57:37 | Unhelpful | linuxstb: i rather doubt it has anything to do with rockbox doing anything "wrong", it's just how gcc does -save-temps - they go in the directory it's run from, disregarding any path data that is included in the input or output filenames |
| 21:58:02 | Unhelpful | though, it's clear that it's taking those filenames into account, because the temps are all <basename>.{i,s} |
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| 21:58:56 | gartral | the screencaps i found dont even show icons, what series zune are you referring too? |
| 21:59:16 | QuickStart | first gen 65gb+ |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:59 | gartral | i still cant find a screen cap with icons at all... |
| 22:02:28 | | Quit tyfoo ("Carpe diem") |
| 22:03:04 | linuxstb | QuickStart: But the short answer is no - you can't change the positions of anything in the menus. Just change the font and iconset. |
| 22:04:17 | n1s | and the long answer is "yes, it just takes a bit of coding" :) |
| 22:04:30 | linuxstb | That's a shorter answer... |
| 22:05:28 | QuickStart | do you know the coding for it n1s |
| 22:05:44 | gartral | i still wanna see a zune with icons at all, as far as i knew, it didnt have any |
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| 22:06:10 | | Quit BigBambi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:06:13 | kadoban | QuickStart: since you're the one that wants it, it seems fair for you to do the coding |
| 22:06:44 | | Join yhuang [0] (n=yhuang@nat01-voorhees-ext.rutgers.edu) |
| 22:06:45 | n1s | QuickStart: no, haven't messed much with the gui code |
| 22:07:13 | linuxstb | QuickStart: "the coding" is adding more theming features to Rockbox (Rockbox is written in C) |
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| 22:07:40 | QuickStart | so basically I would have to debug the shell and then make a new definition such as alignment right? |
| 22:07:58 | linuxstb | "debug the shell" ? |
| 22:08:03 | | Quit jfc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:08:29 | QuickStart | well not the correct terminology I mean read it get to know it |
| 22:08:34 | kadoban | QuickStart: you would have to either know or learn how to program, analyze the current menu drawing code, and change it to your liking |
| 22:08:58 | QuickStart | ah ic one question is C very similar to visual basic? |
| 22:09:07 | kadoban | not at all |
| 22:09:19 | gartral | im not saying i would dislike the function of moving the icons/lists around, but as far as i can tell, it would almost certainly involve a near complete rewriting of the GUI code... |
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| 22:10:08 | QuickStart | oh ic then nevermind lol |
| 22:10:38 | Unhelpful | amiconn: the asm is interesting... DIV255 on ARM is 1 RSB and 5 ADDs, aside from the load and store... assuming those take 1 cycle each, that's about what a umull would take, isn't it? |
| 22:10:46 | Unhelpful | the whole thing is here: http://pastebin.com/m7bd0c34d |
| 22:10:57 | Unhelpful | gcc seems to make very good use of those shifted operands |
| 22:12:15 | * | amiconn wonders what all this adding of 127 is good for |
| 22:13:05 | Unhelpful | i wondered about that as well... the value actually being calculated is (n*31+127)/255 |
| 22:13:51 | Unhelpful | i haven't a clue why it keeps recalculating the +127 |
| 22:14:23 | amiconn | Does it use your macro, or do you use literal '/'? |
| 22:14:45 | amiconn | In the latter case I would understand why it keeps adding 127 |
| 22:15:06 | Unhelpful | yes, it's adding it separately at each shift position |
| 22:15:22 | Unhelpful | it's using the macro - a literal / would just use the libgcc division, wouldn't it? |
| 22:19:36 | QuickStart | whats the requirements for icon sets? |
| 22:19:46 | QuickStart | do they get resized or must one do it |
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| 22:23:36 | PaulJam | QuickStart: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CustomIcons |
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| 22:24:52 | QuickStart | thanks PaulJam |
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| 22:38:47 | gartral | i belive i asked before, but i would like access to edit the wiki, my real name is gareth schakel, i have a new theme to post for the e200s |
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| 22:39:53 | Bagder | gartral: and did you register such a user? |
| 22:40:21 | gartral | oop, i didnt know i had too, i thought you did all that, ok, ill do that now |
| 22:41:04 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Btw, the 'rsb' is not part of the DIV255 |
| 22:41:18 | Unhelpful | amiconn: yes, that's the *31 |
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| 22:41:46 | Unhelpful | if i'm right? it's turning n*31 into (n<<5)-n |
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| 22:42:20 | amiconn | yup |
| 22:43:08 | Zagor | hmm, both h100 and h300 uses the 140 MHz capable BGA-packaged 5249 |
| 22:43:21 | gartral | both periods from the AC, or just the one between words and numbers? |
| 22:43:54 | * | edrz has rockbox :) |
| 22:43:57 | edrz | thanks for help earlier |
| 22:45:30 | Unhelpful | it does the same thing for the *63. any idea why it re-adds the 127 at each shift, instead of adding it once before doing the shift-add? |
| 22:45:36 | amiconn | Zagor: The 5249 in the irivers is marked "120" (by hand) in at least a number of units |
| 22:46:03 | amiconn | There is a reason why we're only using 120MHz (or just a little more); it would overheat at 140MHz. |
| 22:46:24 | amiconn | This is oooold knowledge; Linus tested it in the early days of the iriver port |
| 22:46:43 | Zagor | weird |
| 22:46:57 | amiconn | Unhelpful: gcc stupidity, as usual... |
| 22:46:59 | gartral | i have my activation code, do i need both periods, or only the first one? |
| 22:47:04 | QuickStart | one more question does the rocbox icon need to remain or can I change it |
| 22:47:08 | * | Bagder remembers that about the 140mhz as well |
| 22:47:09 | amiconn | Try using an intermediate |
| 22:47:18 | QuickStart | ? |
| 22:47:32 | amiconn | @Unhelpful |
| 22:47:43 | gartral | QuickStart: it can be changed |
| 22:47:55 | gartral | as well as the boot splash |
| 22:48:20 | Unhelpful | have to use an inline function for that, i'd think? i'm guessing that a macro that contains a code block will be bad to use as an initializer |
| 22:49:04 | QuickStart | ummm I could do that but still don't want to mess with it just yet maybe later when I make my own original |
| 22:49:53 | amiconn | A macro containing a code block should work for auto vars |
| 22:51:00 | * | amiconn uses a similar thing to divide by (roughly) 255 and 257 in the greylib |
| 22:51:22 | gartral | Bagder: all registered, and may i suggest editing the mail confirmation system to not include an "end" period? |
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| 22:52:19 | Unhelpful | ok then... just have the "return" value by itself at the end, as the SC_MUL one does |
| 22:52:29 | Bagder | gartral: permission granted! |
| 22:53:40 | * | Bagder guesses PoipolPoipol is not anybody's real name... |
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| 23:01:24 | gartral | Bagder: sounds like a rear "one name" person who had too put two names in, at least, thats what i would assume |
| 23:02:32 | Bagder | with no country specified and no other info either, I'd rather guess at a weirdo just filling in a nickname of some sorts |
| 23:02:49 | gartral | rockbox seems too not want too charge the battery to %100 its |
| 23:03:12 | gartral | "stuck" at 99 (sorry, hit enter trying to hit shift) |
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| 23:57:12 | Zagor | my first "boost reform" test is a dissappointment. I removed all boosts in the playback code and instead just added boost around mad_frame_decode(). this caused average cpu speed during mp3 playback to rise from ~27 to ~34 MHz. |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).