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#rockbox log for 2009-01-22

00:00:32 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:01:11kugelZagor: any remaining objections regarding the backlight fading code police patch? if not I'd commit it soon'ish
00:02:29kugelJdGordon: good morning! I tried implementing what you proposed, and it didn't work (going from wps to main menu or context menu was good, going to filebrowser and id3screen not, pitchscreen and quickscreen have been a bit weird)
00:02:46kugelI'll upload it to the tracker so you can look at it after breakfast or whatever :)
00:03:47kugelalso, I noticed that I didn't quite get how this events are supposed to work
00:03:56 Join solexx_ [0] (
00:04:16Zagorkugel: only that FADE_DEVIDER is misspelt :-)
00:04:53markunZagor: HCl worked on rockboy
00:05:07JdGordonkugel: k, which events?
00:06:39kugelZagor: err, I think I can fix that
00:09:34kugelJdGordon: all? :) add_event, send_event etc
00:09:36 Quit solexx (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:09:49 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (
00:10:42JdGordonah, use add_event() to register the function you want called when the event is tirggered... send_event() to trigger the actual event
00:11:43kugelI hope we can talk later, I'm tired now
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00:14:17l403hi, markun. here is a working link to the chinese M6SL pictures. The link in the Links dooesnt woork anymore
00:16:18l403almooost everything is identical as on mine except the memory is on the other side of the board on the pictures. I have K9xxG08UxM - flash in the place of the empty pllace on thhe chinese pictures
00:16:18Zagorwhy translate? the raw link works too:
00:16:29markunbut thanks
00:17:07l403Zagor: just in case someone wanted to actually read the text
00:17:53l403and the original can be extracted from that links so I dont have to paste two links
00:17:54markunl403: 你是中国人吗? :)
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00:18:25l403yes, I wish you nice afternoon, too :D
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00:22:07l403as I look at it, it seems to be a nice pice of work, though I'm no expert
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00:23:43Zagorl403: excellent photos anyway :-)
00:24:38markunon the other hand.. we have all this info
00:25:00l403Zagor: they were up on the chinese forum for quite some time. just the link to them on the wiki got broken
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00:26:10Zagorl403: ok. I haven't been looking at meizu, so I haven't seen them before.
00:27:03l403I'm juust saying they're not mine
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00:33:42l403there is 3V across the back cover piezo buzzer pins. isn't that a popwer loss?
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01:09:12gartralum, search database by user rating is broken
01:10:07PaulJamfor me it works. could you be more specific?
01:10:31Unhelpfulamiconn: going to start on global codec API... any gotchas that you can think of? i'm assuming there's a similar iram setup, and i'll need to explicitly place the API pointer in .data...
01:12:04gartralok, mabey im simply useing it out of context, but on my e250 (BLv5 - r19816 official or custom) i cant get it too return anything...
01:16:19PaulJamhmm, the search for user rating seems to return all songs with higher rating then the enterd value. not exactly what i expected. but on the other hand i don't really see the point in searching for user rating.
01:16:25 Quit tyfoo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:18:55PaulJamgartral: did you actually set some song ratings through rockbox. and do they show up under the "normal" user rating category in the database?
01:19:14 Quit itcheg (" ajax IRC Client") looks like we already globalize codec_api as ci in codec_crt0? so, i'm assuming you just want me to change the mechanism to match the plugin one?
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01:28:33 Part toffe82
01:29:01gartralyep, there mostly set, and they do come up otherwise, though it does seem too totally ignore those in the MSD
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01:31:16gartralof course, it does help when i refresh the database too include the newly inserted card, sorry
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01:34:30PaulJamok, then i have no idea. i don't know how well the database works with removeable media (i only have a HD in my player).
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01:47:11gartralnah, it worked after i updated the database
01:47:48gartralwell, worked meaning it now sees the card, it still wont return any info search user rating
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01:56:26gartralim sorry, Album by year*
01:57:21gartraland a bug where only putting a single character in any field returns the entire database
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01:58:22gartralok, at least from Title down
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02:09:37gartralhow is it the database finds -4- of every file in the drive?
02:11:30BHSPitMonkeygartral, it's just four times as awesome as your typical database.
02:12:17gartralthat seems a tad ot to me... this is more a bug
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02:24:36Morphgartral: /win2
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02:31:52gartralwho here is masquerading as me?
02:32:52Unhelpfulum, masquerading?
02:33:07gartrali see two gartrals in the list
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02:33:47Unhelpfuli don't know why you would... but there can't be two users with the same nick.
02:34:05gartralno, i see a gartral and a Gartral
02:35:15Unhelpfuli see a Gareth, but only one "gartral"
02:35:43gartralhere, ill screencap, and i relise im gettin OT, im sorry
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02:50:09gartralcan anyone tell me what is supposed to reside at 000090D0 (0)?
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02:53:21gartrali keep getting an abort there, no matter what i play, and it seems too come and go at its leisure
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02:55:58gartralit seems too be temporarily resolved only after reinitilizing the db
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03:00:36gartralhow do i remove all entries from the database and start from flat
03:06:57JdGordondelete the .idx file in .rockbox/
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03:13:34gartralall 23?
03:13:44gartraler 13
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03:14:30gartralJdGordon: delete all 13 of em?
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03:18:08gartralohh wait, there is no ".idx" theres a database_idx.tcd though
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03:30:31gartralthere is no .idx, no such file exists, what am i supposed too do?
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03:32:07saratogagartral: I've never done this before, but it seems like a pretty safe bet that deleting those files is going to work
03:32:44saratogait would be pretty amazing if deleteing all the files created when building the database somehow preseved the information stored in the process of creating them
03:34:15gartralwell, im trying too figure out why my dap aborts at 000090D0 (0), or what goes there, becaause as soon as pcm buffer gets 3/4 the way full after the other fill it aborts, also, the proccessor is always maxed
03:34:33gartralno matter what im playing
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03:35:37saratogayes I know you already said that
03:36:02Unhelpfulgartral: look at the map files, and see what's there?
03:37:01gartrali dont know how too read it, its all cryptic, im on a windows box connectng via TTY too jds system
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03:38:33Unhelpfulthe map files contain the addresses of functions in the rockbox executable, as well as the plugins and codecs. so, find the address that 0x90D0 is after.
03:38:50gartrali cant open it
03:39:27gartralor rather i dont know how over a terminal
03:40:15Unhelpfulmaybe use "less"?
03:41:00gartralas a command, or is that the name of a program?
03:44:32gartral"cannot find target terminal"
03:46:32itaycould someone please help me recover a sansa e260? i tried installing rockbox, but I get "can't load from partition", "bad checksum", and "file not found" messages when i turn the player on...
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03:50:36gartralok, i got it, but the output says nothing about any address space
03:51:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:53:22Unhelpfulmaybe you need to scroll down, first. mine lists all the object files first, symbols and addresses come later
03:56:24gartralthat all it gave me
03:56:55gartralthe line after the last there was a prompt
03:59:25gartralso either jd;s system is screwed up, or im just retarded
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04:05:37*gartral sighs
04:06:02gartrali geuss i get to throw away my dap then, cause it wont play music
04:06:48krazykititcheg, does it specify which file isn't found?
04:09:37gartralwill someone be so kind as to tell my what goes too that address, cause i obviously cant see it without being infront of the computer its on, and seeing a jd is a few thousand miles away, i dont forsee that anytime soon
04:10:54Unhelpfulgartral: you can scroll down using less, you know.
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04:11:19gartrali told you, the output i got is all it gave, it returned too terminal prompt after
04:11:19Unhelpfuland we can't see that either - none of us has the map file for the build *you* are using.
04:13:08gartralits an e250 vanilla build...
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04:18:53gartralyou think deleting those .tcd files is safe?
04:21:55krazykittcd files are database files, so yes, that is safe
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04:28:54gartralalso, someone had said that too make a custom vkb permanent between reboots all i had too do was put is into the .rockbox dir, this doesnt work
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04:32:45gartralit took nearly a whole minute too load, but it didnt ever display a "commiting database: 1-9" dialog
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04:35:07gartralno hopeing it dosnt abort, mabey i cleared this up
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04:36:06gartralyay! i think it was just the database that was screwed up
04:36:31gartralit now works, and cpu is "slammed" at 100
04:37:11Unhelpfulgartral: i'd imagine the file needs a specific name to be autoloaded.
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04:38:02gartralUnhelpful: could you be more specific?
04:38:56Unhelpfulgartral: no, i can't really be more specific, but i would not expect RB to search the .rockbox dir for any file that might be a custom vkb layout - it probably checks for a specific filename.
04:40:02gartrali was about to clarify and ask if you meant the .tcd files or the .vkb files, but i do belive it was amiconn that told me that
04:41:35gartralthe .vkb could be put into the .rockbox dir
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04:45:24gartralno, it was Pauljam, sorry amiconn
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05:03:25Unhelpfulgartral: it appears to me that it needs to have a .kbd extension, and that loading a .kbd file sets it as the default?
05:05:54gartraloops, i did say ".vkb" didnt i? it is a .kbd
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05:12:17gartralkeyboard Q: you think having a space in the name of the keyboard would break the autoload function?
05:12:17gartralhardware Q: does anyone know if its possible too turn on only some of the button lights on for the e200s?
05:13:14Aurix_Lexicoyou would probably have to edit the button backlight driver (where ever that is, I don't know)
05:14:35gartralAurix_Lexico: well.. i can grep "button.c" and see what it includes, i was just wondering if each little light was on a seperate circuit..
05:14:59Aurix_Lexicooh, sorry, I don't know
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05:22:24gartralits ok, i doubt i have the skills in c too make the necessary changes anyway
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06:33:21intradosis it desired behavior that when I add songs by artist, all songs are added in alphabetical order instead of album order?
06:33:44tmztyes, that's answered in the faq
06:35:32intradossorry. I missed it somehow...
06:39:30intradosand I still can't find it...
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07:25:59kadobanAm I correct in thinking that the simulator does not simulate a file system? Specifically I am trying to determine when my plugin causes actual hard drive activity (the only actual target hardware I own is flash based), is there any possible way to do this in the simulator?
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07:30:48Unhelpfulit doesn't simulate a file system as far as i know - it translates file operations directly to OS file operations on the files under simdisk/
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07:31:58kadobandamn, that's what i was afraid of... not sure i have any real way to tell if i'm doing bad things to the disk then
07:33:47Unhelpful"bad things"?
07:35:10kadoban"bad things" aka spinning up the disk when i'm doing small reads/writes/seeks periodically. if i'm reading the file code correctly it should work acceptably, but i have no way of checking really
07:36:00kadobanoh well, someone will complain eventually if i read the code wrong :)
07:37:04LloreanI don't quite understand. How would you not spin up the disk if it's spun down and you need to do a read/write/whatever?
07:38:33kadobanLlorean: it appears to be kept in the sector buffer if the read/write/seek is small, which is what i'm hoping to rely on. Of course eventually there will have to be actual disk access, but if it's every time I write 10 bytes, that would be bad.
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07:52:56JdGordonkadoban: I dont think any buffering is done on targets.. writes get done as soon as write() is called
07:53:08JdGordonand write() will block untill it is actually written
07:57:26kadobanJdGordon: How sure are you, if you could quantify it? I'm reading firmware/common/file.c and it seems to be doing SECTOR_SIZE (512) byte caching, as long as the read/write/seek doesn't pass a sector boundry. (there's practically infinite ways that i could be missing something of course)
07:58:24JdGordonim not sure at all... I'm just assuming it doesnt for simplicity
07:58:57kadobanoh okay, thanks. i'll just see if i can get my hands on a friends ipod or something to do some tests
08:00:08LloreanWhat are you doing in a plugin that'd need lots of reads and writes?
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08:02:10kadobanLlorean: i'm doing a board game, and i need to basically store for each move what changed on the board (to be able to undo it easily). So it'll be small amounts of data, spaced over minutes or more. It seems rather wasteful to spin up the disk for each move or undo, if it's done 100% of the time at least.
08:02:47kadobanI could just have a static buffer of course, but it can be of potentially unlimited size, and it's very difficult to predict what a sensible value would be, if there even exists one
08:04:09LloreanYou could just do a static buffer, and write to disk every time it's full.
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08:05:10kadobanYeah, that's what I'm basically doing now, but if rockbox is buffering it already, even just 512 bytes...that seems sufficient and I can cut out a few hundred lines of code and potential for bad bugs
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08:08:23JdGordonkadoban: plugins have HEAPS of wasted ram you should use...
08:08:42kadobanJdGordon: oh don't worry, i'm using those heaps for other things :)
08:09:31JdGordonto start with you have 512KiB for the plugin binary and its static ram.. if that still isnt enough then you can steal the playback buffer which is up to 30MiB on most targets
08:10:46kadobanyeah, i shouldn't run into that limit even with large files on 32MB targets, but the 2? MB targets I could pretty easily hit it if i'm too wasteful
08:11:13JdGordonmeh, so they miss out on the game untill its optimized later
08:12:00LloreanWhat is this game that might use as much as 2MB?
08:12:27kadobanit's for viewing/editing/playing SGF files (for Go)
08:12:50kadobansome files are freaking ridiculously huge (you can have arbitrary number of variations, and there's lots of markup)
08:13:42LloreanSupposedly the longest game of Go ever was only 411 moves.
08:13:57LloreanAt the estimated 10 bytes per move that's only ~4K
08:14:33LloreanThough I can't imagine why you need 10 bytes for a move. I'd think 2 would be sufficient, an X and Y coordinate of the move, right?
08:14:44kadobanLlorean: my "worst case" use case, which is actually a popular thing is Kogo's Joseki Dictionary, which is a ~300KB file, and it's difficult to keep the tree in memory with the same memory efficiency as even the bloated text file
08:15:25kadobanright now, i easily hit the point where i need to steal the audio buffer on e200 with that file
08:15:36LloreanIsn't that multiple joseki though?
08:15:58LloreanWhy do you need to keep the whole file open once a specific one is loaded for the "player" to deal with?
08:17:02kadobanLlorean: for a few reasons, all of which may be surmountable but would make the code pretty complicated:
08:17:54kadoban1) it needs to be easy and quick to switch between variations 2) the caching scheme for making everything editable while only having part of the file in memory is quite annoying, and there's little hope of not having to write the entire file every time a small change is made
08:18:47kadoban(reading and parsing kogo's on the e200 takes about 15-30 seconds each, which would be an annoyingly long time to wait to switch variations)
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08:22:11JdGordonhow often would you change variations though?
08:22:24Lloreankadoban: Given that in SGF every node has one unique parent, why do you need to keep undo information?
08:22:36LloreanThere's only one possible undo when playing through a specific SGF, right?
08:23:40kadobanLlorean: because undoing captures is impossible if you don't store what stones were captures or something equally useful. The only alternative is to replay the entire game up to that point, which is done in some other programs but seems like awful design and makes undoing look awful.
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08:23:57kadobans/were captures/were captured/
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08:24:27Lloreankadoban: So you're basically storing the whole board, every step of the way, rather than silently replaying the game to reproduce the board?
08:24:28kadobanJdGordon: in kogo's? extremely often. the whole point is to look through many varaitions to get a sense of what is possible
08:24:51kadobanLlorean: not really, i'm storing which stones were added and deleted. mostly it's just the stone played
08:24:59LloreanI don't get that.
08:25:24LloreanI thought the problem was the captures, not the stone played
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08:25:59kadobanLlorean: well the stone played is easy, i could get rid of that, but the captures need to be stored. There's no real way to figure it out from the board position and the stone played (going backwards)
08:26:36LloreanSo SGF works by storing a series of moves, and depending on the client logic to determine captures?
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08:27:14kadobanyes, exactly
08:27:37LloreanIt still seems like the most information you'd need is "the position of one stone per capture, plus the number of captures that turn"
08:27:57LloreanYou don't need all of them, since it's not a capture until there are no openings.
08:28:16LloreanSo if you have the coordinates of one position in there, you know they were all (color) if a capture happened in that now-a-empty-space
08:29:34kadobanhmm, that's actually not a bad idea. you'd need potentially 4 storages though. and also, there's the ability to manually add and remove stones from the board (for setting up different positions), which would need to be handled differently
08:30:03Lloreanhow does that work with SGF?
08:30:12LloreanIf the full board condition isn't known, you can't end up with a node from doing that anyway
08:30:38kadobanLlorean: i'm not sure i understand the question. How are manually adding/removing stones handled?
08:30:51Lloreankadoban: Why do they need an undo?
08:32:00LloreanYou said that the exact board layout isn't stored in the SGF. So manually adding several stones should result in you not being positioned within the SGF any more, right? Unless there's a branch of the tree for every possible order you could add those stones during setup?
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08:32:01kadobanLlorean: they could be handled with separate logic, they don't necessarily need to be stored i suppose.
08:32:43LloreanI don't think they'd need stored since captures can't occur during that. You're basically "free form" so you don't really have gameplay to step back through and take an alternate branch.
08:32:44kadobanLlorean: no, you can do things in SGF files which you can't in Go games, like add 50 moves in one "node"
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08:33:15LloreanAh, so the adding of multiple stones is treated as one "move" and takes you to a child after you signal you're done adding somehow?
08:33:24LloreanIf you're adding, rather than playing, that is.
08:33:49kadobanLlorean: yes, basically. all of the added/removed moves go in one "node", and then if you do an actual move, that's the signal to go on to the next node
08:34:13kadobanwell, that's not specified by the specification, but that's the way every client i've ever used handles it
08:34:27LloreanIt seems the adding probably doesn't need to be undoable then, since you can just remove freely anyway
08:34:56LloreanAnd then you just need to keep track of when a capture occurs, and what move number it occurs on.
08:35:23LloreanSince parents are linear, you can step back to the move before the capture, then undo the capture based on your 9 or less bytes of saved data (I think) then keep stepping back to the next stored capture
08:35:32LloreanProbably a lot more efficient than storing all the pieces added/removed.
08:35:36kadobanyeah, i'm pretty sure that it could be done away with (they'd still be in the SGF tree anyway). So I think all i'd need to store is up to 4 captures and the current move, plus the ko point, which i don't really want to explain
08:37:22kadobani'll look into it more, thanks for the idea. that could really help prevent disk spins as long as possible
08:37:50LloreanI'm not sure you need to store a ko point.
08:38:01LloreanWhen you undo the move, the undo will result in a "capture" in reverse
08:38:08LloreanSo you could just watch for that algorithmically, right?
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08:39:45kadobandamn, i think you're right. i can't think of an ambiguous case
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08:40:40LloreanIf there were an ambiguous case, it wouldn't be ko any more. :)
08:42:15kadobanyeah, i originally thought that the user could break that with ridiculously untimely add/remove stones, but i don't think he can
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08:54:14Lloreankadoban: I think I can increase the savings even more.
08:54:22LloreanYou don't need to save coordinates for the captures.
08:54:41LloreanMoving from 0,0 left to right and dropping down a row each time, you'll encounter the "areas" where each capture occurred in a known order.
08:54:59LloreanMeaning you only need to save 4 bits per move where a capture occurred (T/F as to whether that potential area was actually a capture or not)
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08:55:26LloreanWell, a maximum of 4 bits.
08:56:06kadobanLlorean: haha, yeah i was just convincing myself of that. you can suicide too, so i might need 5 bits, which is kind of annoying...but still pretty good
08:56:33LloreanPlus of course 2 bytes for "move number" probably.
08:57:17kadobanthat is pretty easy to figure out dynamically, just every time you encounter a move node you either increase or decrease, depending on which direction you're going
08:58:02LloreanYeah, I guess you'd be able to see the empty spaces where a capture may have occurred between the two turns.
08:58:53LloreanBut you need some way to "mark" which historic moves actually had captures, right?
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09:00:17kadobanLlorean: yeah, i probably need 1 bit for each move (if i can find a convent place to put it), and 5 bits for each capturing move. might be easier just to store 1 byte for each move
09:00:42LloreanWhy do you need to store anything for non-capture moves, exactly?
09:01:13kadobanwell, i need something that says "this isn't a capture", right?
09:01:40LloreanIt seems like all you need is "current move number", and then a list of "move number (2 bytes), which captures occurred (5 bites, so 1 byte again)"
09:01:53LloreanSo non-captures are any turn where the move number does not equal a move number in your list of captures.
09:01:58LloreanWhich you only refer to when undoing anyway.
09:02:22LloreanI'm assuming 2 bytes for the move number so you can go up to 65,000ish moves, a lot longer than any game should run.
09:02:43kadobanoh yeah, on average that will be a lot less than having even on bit per move
09:03:02LloreanThat should end up using almost no memory
09:03:17LloreanYou could put aside 1k for it and even if you had a capture every turn you could go 300 turns before you're in trouble.
09:03:27kadobanyou're too good at this :)
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10:27:23JdGordonok, some time in the next few hours I will be commiting 9795 which has had bassically no hwcodec testing, and minimal swcodec testing other than myself pondlife and pauljam... I'm confident i have given ample time for everyone to help out so if things go pear shaped....
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10:34:44Unhelpfulright, blame you ;)
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11:02:28*pixelma volunteers for testing once more
11:11:41*linuxstb pings JdGordon so he sees pixelma's offer...
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11:47:25pixelmaunrelated but found when testing: there seems to be a small drawing issue in the recording screen, my guess is status bar changes related. Sometimes the peak meters "jump" up a bit (one line) for a split second, happens only once in a while and is a bit hard to spot as it happens quite fast
11:48:48pixelmaone line: I'm using 09-Nedore, so could be the 8 pixels of the statusbar too, can't see exactly
11:51:42PaulJampixelma: this seems to happen everytime the statusbar updates, so while charging this becomes quite obvious (at least on H300)
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12:05:46pixelmaJdGordon: next track info is still broken on hwcodec with the 8b patch. If I just let it play it'll never show up when I skip track during the time next track info is there, the info will show up for the short time it takes from registering the button press till it starts playing the next track. For comparison I tried if it works in current SVN and it does.
12:06:45pixelmacouldn't see anything elso broken yet (sublines and scrolling seem to work like they should)
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12:12:06pixelmaPaulJam: could be - I set battery display to numerical and the "jump" happens when something changes there but not everytime (or I can't always see it)
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12:52:23JdGordonpixelma: arg, ok... im going to need someone who knows hwcodec to fix this :/
12:54:26*JdGordon wonders if that problem is big enough to stop the commit completly?
12:55:04JdGordonespecially since I dont have actual access to a archos for another month, so if it is commited maybe someone how does will sort it out
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12:58:02ZagorJdGordon: I think you should probably talk to someone who might do that first. committing knowningly-broken code with no path to a fix is not so nice.
12:58:58JdGordonyeah, I know.. but I havnt had much luck so far.. and I have things waiting on this commit...
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12:59:47Zagoryou can always join my campaign to kick out hwcodec :-)
13:00:10JdGordonjoin? I thought I started it :D
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13:14:26JdGordonpixelma: can you try a quick change to the patch?
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13:21:35JdGordoncomment out the if (track_write_idx == track_read_idx + 1) line in mepg.c around line 884
13:22:10JdGordonif that works I tihnk its probably off by one..
13:24:58pixelmaonly the if statement or the next line too?
13:25:23pixelmaI'm guessing the former
13:25:34JdGordononly the if line
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13:33:46JdGordonkugel: I looked at your patch and I'm still not really happy.... what I'd like to see is bassically a patch which renames viewportmanager_set_statusbar (and makes it multi-screen aware), and adds the ability to load the viewport from the .cfg.. (almost) nothing more should be needed.. definetly no screens need tampering (unless they are broken in svn now)
13:44:51pixelmaJdGordon: it doesn't help. Hmm... I notice when I adjust volum during the time next track info is there, it shows up and stays there, when I seek during that time, the info will be shown as long as I seek but gets back pretending there is no next track info when I just let it play. Not sure if either happened like this without the change or not
13:44:59pixelmavolume too
13:45:24JdGordonwell that just sucks :p
13:45:59kugelJdGordon: It was just to show you that I couldn't get it to work yet what you plan
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13:46:22kugelI know that there's still other stuff, but I'd like to get it working first
13:48:16kugelJdGordon: the wps is basically always in need of calling viewportmanager_* functions on exit, right?
13:48:46JdGordon(yeah is the easy answer anyway ;p )
13:48:49kugelso, I'd like to change the return mechanism slightly, to avoid hundreds of that calls
13:49:09JdGordonwhy hundreds of calls?
13:49:24JdGordonthe statusbar handling in the WPS is currently wrong which is why thats happening
13:49:25kugelthe wps has several returns
13:49:41JdGordonoh, right
13:50:03kugelinstead of having a call at each, I'd return the a function (its return value) which does that calling
13:50:36kugellike instead of return GO_TO_ROOT do return(return_from_wps(GO_TO_ROOT))
13:51:07kugeland return_from_wps would do everything that's required
13:51:18kugeljust to avoid duplicated code
13:51:37JdGordonnot actually needed... the wps call in root_menu.c is currently wrapped in the viewportmanager handling
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13:52:19kugelthe wps can return to several screens, not only root menu
13:52:48kugeli.e. if you go to the pitchscreen from wps the pitchscreen is fullscreen, but if you go to it from context menu, it'll have the custom vp
13:53:19kugelunless the wps itself makes sure the custom vp is restored on any return
13:53:42JdGordonthose screens are still "under" the wps...
13:53:51JdGordoni.e it stays in the wps function...
13:53:56kugelalso, the patch I uploaded fails at going to the filebrowser from wps
13:54:01JdGordonthe browser completly exits from the wps
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14:27:23*LambdaCalculus37 has the beginnings of a Sansa Clip manual in his local SVN trunk
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14:28:10ZagorLambdaCalculus37: nice
14:28:27LambdaCalculus37Zagor: It's going to take a bit of time to get it up to speed, though.
14:28:43Zagorstill, it's a start
14:28:49LambdaCalculus37Has the keymap for the Clip been finalized?
14:29:00Zagorthe port itself has a ways to go, too...
14:29:24ZagorI don't know
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14:29:32LambdaCalculus37Zagor: Indeed. The SD timeout bug is still present.
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14:36:55kugelLambdaCalculus37: I wouldn't call it finalized
14:37:55LambdaCalculus37kugel: It's far from it.
14:38:51ZagorLambdaCalculus37: I think kugel meant the keymap
14:38:59LambdaCalculus37Zagor: Ahh.
14:40:04LambdaCalculus37Good to know; I haven't added all button actions to the manual pages yet. I just added the basic buttons for now.
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14:47:18kugelZagor: I'm going to commit the backlight fading "code police" patch, wanna take a last look at it?
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14:48:41Zagorkugel: now that you mention it, why do you add -imacros button.h to apps.make?
14:49:05kugelto let features.txt see the INT_ and _BOOL setting
14:49:07Zagormeh, it's backlight.h...
14:50:08kugelit needs that for the manual
14:50:23Zagorah, right. that whole segment should be moved from backlight.h to config.h
14:50:50kugelyou think so?
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14:51:04kugelI'm unsure, but I don't feel strong about it
14:51:36Zagoryes. look at how CPU_* is done in config.h. it's the same thing. we don't want to have to add new files to parse for every new feature.
14:52:40Zagorbasically, all HAVE_* macros should be defined in config* files
14:52:45kugelZagor: hmm. I already added much stuff to config.h (see for the current patch)
14:53:00kugelbut yea, that's also true
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14:56:11kugelI removed the specific HAVE_* altogether, and only kept those for the HAVE_BACKLIGHT_FADING_*_SETTING
14:57:20LambdaCalculus37The LCD display of the Clip is 128x64x1, correct?
14:57:37*LambdaCalculus37 is fixing the main platform page of the Clip
14:59:57ZagorLambdaCalculus37: yes it is
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15:02:06LambdaCalculus37Zagor: Thanks.
15:02:55*kugel isn't so sure about the patch anymore
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16:37:17Jaykayshould i create a bug report because the wps shows shortly filename+directory instead of title+album? or is this known or necessary or whatever?
16:39:09ZagorJaykay: for all files? if it doesn't find a tag it normally shows dir+file instead
16:39:17Zagoroh, shortly?
16:39:30Jaykayright before title+album
16:39:41Zagorat track change?
16:39:53bluehazzardHi, ist there someone, who can tell me if the rockbox build of the e200v2 is save to test on my device?
16:39:56Jaykayonly yes
16:41:21JaykayZagor: mor precisely it shows filename+the parent directory+directory instead of title+artist+album
16:41:44ZagorJaykay: that's a bug. please file a report.
16:42:10Zagorpossibly JdGordon's upcoming patch fixes it
16:43:20Jaykayi tested it :)
16:44:21Jaykayand should i also write a bug report for weird behaviour when skipping forward+backward _very_fast?
16:47:15Zagoryes, if you can describe a method of repeating it
16:48:51PaulJamisn't this expected that the filename is shown when the metadata isn't available yet (depending on the WPS code)?
16:49:54ZagorPaulJam: the metadata should be available for next track when the transition happens. otherwise the "next" tags wouldn't work.
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18:15:23bluehazzardhi, i try to build a firmware for the e200v2, i made a bootloader build of rockbox, and i have build mkamsboot... when i now run mkamsboot with the parameters of a original firmawarefile and the bootloader firmwarefile it says: err Model name "e2v2" not found in bootloader.bin
18:15:25bluehazzardcan someone help me? thank you
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18:47:27LambdaCalculus37For the Clip manual, what should the screenshot size be set to? I currently have {\screenshotsize}{3cm}.
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19:01:10LambdaCalculus37Here's what I have so far: and
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19:02:00linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: No idea about that, but there's another small issue with screenshots - the gap between the first 12 lines and the rest.
19:02:24LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Yeah, screenshots are going to look a little funny on the Clip manual.
19:02:53linuxstbWhy? You're not intending on fixing that?
19:03:14LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: No, I'll see if I can do something about them.
19:03:43linuxstbIt should be possible to modify the screenshot function to insert some extra lines (if we want that), or write a script to post-process them (e.g. with imagemagick)
19:04:10LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Have you taken screenshots of the Clip with the sim?
19:04:27linuxstbNo, I don't think I've even compiled the Clip sim...
19:04:53LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Let me try the Clip sim on my Mac; I'll take a couple of shots.
19:05:13*linuxstb compiles the Clip sim
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19:05:36LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: How do you take a screencap in the sim?
19:05:41linuxstbF5 I think
19:06:31linuxstbI assume cabbie hasn't been adapted to the Clip yet? e.g. moving the icons to the top, so they're yellow?
19:07:23 Quit sarixe ("Connection reset by the motherfucking peer")
19:07:33LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Nope. Still looks off.
19:07:34*linuxstb thinks the Clip screendump function needs fixing...
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19:07:45LambdaCalculus37I'm using rockbox-default on my Clip for now.
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19:08:57LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: It looks like an Archos screencap. (except for resolution, of course)
19:09:07kugelbtw, I wonder why the no fonts are compiled when doing make zip on the clip
19:09:27kugelit's basically using sysfont now it seems
19:11:03LambdaCalculus37kugel: Most of the other fonts are way too large for that tiny little screen, but I don't think that's the reason why they're not compiled.
19:12:54linuxstbkugel: According to settings_list.c, the Clip (LCD_HEIGHT <= 64) should be using 08-Rockfont
19:14:02kugellinuxstb: if it wasn't sysfont (i haven't verified which font it is) the fonts folder wouldn't be empty, right?
19:14:33linuxstbBut it seems that is missing in WPSLIST - it needs a 128x64 entry
19:14:56LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: My screendumps look the same as yours.
19:15:05linuxstbSo the generated cabbiev2.cfg will also be wrong I think...
19:15:38kugelit seems, the wps seems correct though
19:15:45 Quit Darksair ("People who are zhuangbility want to show their niubility but only reflect their shability.")
19:16:31LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: But what about cabbie for the RWPS on the iriver LCD remote?
19:16:52kugelit has wps and statusbar entry
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19:17:43linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: I think that's fine - it should use the main LCD size to determine the font.
19:18:24*linuxstb wonders why rwps entries have a font specified in WPSLIST...
19:18:52*LambdaCalculus37 thinks MrSomeone should look into the Clip sim screendump function
19:19:27linuxstbIt's not the "sim screendump", it's just "the screendump".
19:19:32pixelmathe package script needs to be adapted to be able to distinguish between 128x64x1 as main WPS and RWPS, mentioned quite a few times already
19:20:21kugellinuxstb: shouldn't WPSLIST be using the settings_list #defines anyway (or the other way around), instead of having both specifying a font?
19:20:51pixelmalinuxstb: maybe in the hope that one day you'll be able to use different fonts for WPS and RWPS on the same target...
19:21:28*BigBambi crosses fingers!
19:21:35linuxstbpixelma: True, but it seems strange for Rockbox to do something "just in case something happens in the future"...
19:23:45 Quit Xerion (" ")
19:24:05pixelmaand I still wonder - is there a way to extend the logic which is already in (or how's it called) that distinguishes same sized RWPSs for different targets with different main WPSs (see the iCatcher RWPSs for H300 und H100)?
19:24:06linuxstbThe Clip has another problem - we will probably want themes adjusted to the yellow/blue colour split, so different 128x64x1 than other targets.
19:27:38bluehazzardhi, i try to build a firmware for the e200v2, i made a bootloader build of rockbox, and i have build mkamsboot... when i now run mkamsboot with the parameters of a original firmawarefile and the bootloader firmwarefile it says: err Model name "e2v2" not found in bootloader.bin
19:27:39bluehazzardcan someone help me? thank you
19:27:58pixelmaI thought it could be possible if an xyz.160x128x2.128x64x1.wps would take priority over xyz.128x64x1.wps (currently that one has priority if it exists)
19:28:18*LambdaCalculus37 has no idea how centralized the install methods for the AMS Sansas is going to be, and wonders if he should just make seperate "foo install" pages or one "AMS Sansa install" page
19:28:22linuxstbbluehazzard: What instructions say to use bootloader.bin? (they're wrong)
19:28:50linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: So far, they are all the same, just the filenames will vary.
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19:29:03kugelWPSLIST is too hardcoded for my taste
19:29:18LambdaCalculus37linxustb: Then I'll create one "AMS Sansa" install page.
19:29:31linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: Are you still talking about the manual?
19:29:34kugelcould we make it more like features.txt, as in using LCD_WIDTH and stuff and having it preprocessed?
19:29:43LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Yes.
19:30:09linuxstbkugel: Wouldn't that get very long?
19:30:16bluehazzardlinuxstb: i don't have to create an bootloader.bin??
19:30:34linuxstbbluehazzard: You use bootloader-e200v2.sansa
19:30:44kugellinuxstb: depends, could get longer, but it could also get shorter
19:30:50kugelis the length a problem?
19:30:54pixelmakugel: hmm? It choses the WPSs to include by LCD_WIDTH etc
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19:31:10pixelmatogether with the pearl script
19:31:17pixelmaor perl?
19:31:18linuxstbkugel: Only that if it becomes longer, it will become harder to read and maintain....
19:31:31LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Perl.
19:31:50pixelmayeah, looked odd
19:31:51kugelwell, now there's dancing puff dou built for it
19:32:00kugelwhich doesn't work since it wants to load a backdrop
19:32:21LambdaCalculus37I think that DancePuffDuo theme has been long broken, hasn't it?
19:32:35pixelmaIIRC DancePuffDuo does not use a backdrop
19:32:35kugelit works on my fuze iirc
19:32:58kugel"ERR: Failed to load image 0 - /.rockbox/wps/DancePuffDuo/bg.bmp"
19:33:03LambdaCalculus37kugel: It doesn't work on my Clip.
19:33:04pixelmaand it is probably only the DancePuffDuo.rwps
19:33:17kugelLambdaCalculus37: yea, that's the point
19:34:04kugellinuxstb: I don't think it will be much harder to read
19:34:10bluehazzardlinuxstb: linuxstb: sou what i have to select in the configure when i build rockbox? or is there somewere written how i can build rockbox for the ams targets?
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19:34:18pixelmakugel: bg.bmp does not necessarily mean back*drop*. In b/w WPS it's often only a statically loaded monochrome bmp (with %x)
19:34:28LambdaCalculus37Cabbiev2 is very screwed up on the Clip. The progress bar is shoved up to the top yellow bar, the tag info is cut off from "artist", and the icons look a little scrambled here.
19:35:11pixelmakugel: but that's still weird
19:35:25rasherLambdaCalculus37: isn't there a patch to fix that
19:35:35linuxstbbluehazzard: You just build things like any other target - "B" for bootloader builds, "N" for normal builds. Are you saying yo don't get a bootloader-e200v2.sansa file?
19:35:49LambdaCalculus37rasher: Not sure.
19:35:55bluehazzardno, a bin file
19:35:59*LambdaCalculus37 rummages around on Flyspray
19:36:00kugelpixelma: bg.bmp doesn't exist in the wps/cabbiev2 folder
19:36:22bluehazzarda, nou i found it...
19:36:35rasherLambdaCalculus37: FS #9763
19:36:50bertrikLambdaCalculus37, I hacked a bit on the 128x64x1 cabbie v2 wps and made a FS task, but there's already another target with the same resolution
19:37:07LambdaCalculus37bertrik: The m200, correct?
19:37:19kugeldamn ;)
19:38:14pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: no, the Iriver remotes
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19:38:56linuxstbbertrik: Why not move the statusbar to the yellow block?
19:39:02kugelbertrik: besides that I'd have a 3rd idea of making the wps look this doing anything bad to other targets which use that wps?
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19:39:26pixelmaand that's why I didn't bother about the Clip cabbiev2 yet - the 128x64x1 version is made for the Iriver remotes which use a different sized font and if you change something there it will look wrong on the Iriver remotes
19:39:38*linuxstb would prefer the cabbiev2 statusbar in the correct place on all targets... ;)
19:40:14kugelbertrik: I think the changes to the other targets don't really justify separation of the targets, do they?
19:41:51*pixelma wonders why she's talking in cirles
19:41:56pixelmacircles too
19:44:00kugelpixelma: ah right
19:44:03bertrikkugel, what pixelma said about the font size is the reason
19:44:52kugelanyway, who can I blame for the clip sim keymap?
19:45:26bertrikI think we need to edit some of the perl scripts to allow more than one target with the same resolution, I looked a bit at that, but I'm not so fluent in perl
19:45:35pixelmathe script needs to be made aware of possible two (or more) versions of one WPS size and I thought it shouldn't be too hard - for someone who knows perl - to extend the existing logic
19:45:47linuxstbpixelma: Could we simply have separate .wps and .rwps files?
19:46:06bertrikkugel, I think funman copied a lot of keymap stuff from the c200 and then I fixed some of the obvious bugs
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19:46:28LambdaCalculus37bertrik: The keymap still needs a bit of work.
19:46:44pixelmabertrik: there is already *something* there to have different RWPS for the Iriver remotes together with the H300 or H100
19:46:53linuxstbAnd also add an (optional) target into the filenames, similar to the lang files. So something like cabbiev2.128x64x1.clip.wps or maybe even cabbiev2.128x64x1.clip_target2_target3.wps
19:46:58LambdaCalculus37For example, the VolUp/Down buttons should be able to raise and lower the volume even outside of the WPS, much like the c200 does.
19:47:17pixelmasee th iCatcher versions
19:47:48bertrikLambdaCalculus37, yeah I would like that too
19:48:35bertrikthat shouldn't be very hard
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19:50:04bertrikLlorean had some ideas for an alternative Clip key mapping
19:50:09kugelbertrik, pixelma: Someone proposed to prioritise (r)wps if they have the model name in it over plain screen dimensions, I think that's a good idea
19:50:19*LambdaCalculus37 summons Llorean
19:50:45kugelLambdaCalculus37: I personally think volume buttons in list is a waste of buttons
19:51:22*domonoky thinks we dont have enough buttons for volume in lists on clip/m200v4
19:51:33*kugel agrees
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19:53:27LloreanI think the volume buttons can be used to move through the list (basically, map them like the wheel is on the e200, so they do volume in WPS and move in lists) for the Clip, but others have said that it's quite uncomfortable for them to use them like that.
19:53:27bertrikI see no big problems with volume buttons in lists
19:53:31kugelLambdaCalculus37, bertrik: and btw, the clip actually does have this as of now
19:54:43LloreanI'm not sure it makes as much sense on targets where the volume buttons are positioned horizontally rather than vertically though
19:54:49kugelbertrik: there are functions which are more important to me over volume in lists, that include go to wps, stop playback and quickscreen
19:55:09LambdaCalculus37Llorean: Are there any targets where the volume buttons are positioned horizontally?
19:55:23bluehazzardhi again me.... when i have build the normal build for the sansa v2 did i have to rename it to .mi4?
19:55:24LloreanLambdaCalculus37: m200 / c200 I think
19:55:28domonokym200v4 has the volume buttons on the side
19:55:33LambdaCalculus37Llorean: Ah, that's right.
19:56:19domonokyusing them for got to wps/quickscreen or alike would be good.
19:56:53LloreanYou basically have three options re: the volume buttons. Use them for volume (easiest for a user to figure out), use them for navigation (a little harder to figure out, but since they're a linear control not too hard) or use them for something else like "go to wps" and "stop playback" in the list, which is very difficult to guess/remember but makes navigation easier.
19:57:35LloreanAll in the list, btw
19:57:40bertrikpersonally I think volume is more important than WPS, QS or STOP. Go to WPS could be the home button, STOP could be long play in the WPS
19:57:41kugelbut we do want the volume buttons for volume in the wps, rightß
19:58:36domonokybertrik: m200 has no home or rec button.
19:58:38bertrikkugel, of course
19:58:38kugeloh, and I really wouldn't like the volume buttons as up/down in lists
19:58:50LambdaCalculus37Llorean: I vote for option 1 (volume control).
19:58:56bertrikm200 != clip
19:59:28kugelbertrik: well, it's going to be difficult to have a intuitive keymap, since wps and lists will have totally different keymapps
20:00:03Lloreanbertrik: Long play in the WPS means you can't scroll lists well, at all.
20:00:25Lloreanbertrik: Basically, in the list, long Play and long Menu *cannot* be used unless you want to make someone press a button 4000 times to get through a 4000 entry list.
20:00:28kugelLlorean: I had an idea which would make this possible
20:00:46kugelusing the volume buttons for page scrolling
20:01:04LloreanUsing the volume buttons for page scrolling just reduces what buttons we have further...
20:01:13kugelbut I don't think that'll work well in practise
20:03:04kugelremember that we also have button combos, like select+up (which I find easy to use with the thumb only)
20:03:27LloreanButton combos should more or less only be used as a last resort.
20:03:53*bertrik agrees
20:03:56LloreanThe user's usually not even going to guess that combos exist.
20:04:10*LambdaCalculus37 wonders if a similar discussion was carried out with other targets that had limited buttons
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20:04:13LloreanNo "main" function should be on them. Something like PgUp/PgDn could though.
20:04:34kugelbut they can be used for non-critical features like quickscreen
20:04:36LloreanLambdaCalculus37: This is kinda the most limited we've been since the Ondio and that was forever ago.
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20:05:06LloreanAnd it's less "limited buttons" and more "buttons limited in function due to their physical layout"
20:05:23LloreanThere's as many buttons as an iPod, you just can't use some of them the same way due to where they're at.
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20:05:29LambdaCalculus37Llorean: I agree.
20:06:13*LambdaCalculus37 is at least glad to have a couple of targets with lots of buttons and very intuitive layouts :)
20:06:36LloreanI think though volume is non-critical in the list. The "volume" buttons could be used for something else we usually make available to the user since the WPS is always one button press away anyway, and then the volume can be adjusted.
20:07:11kugelexactly, that's my impression too
20:08:59LambdaCalculus37Llorean: I brought it up, however, because the volume buttons on the c200 do adjust the volume outside of the WPS, and I had become used to that behavior. But then again, it's personal opinion and I know that my opinion may not be what everyone else sees.
20:09:25bertrikI was thinking the opposite for basically the same reason :). Like STOP/QS can be done by going to the WPS first.
20:10:24LambdaCalculus37Stop on the Clip is done with a quick press of POWER, like on the c200.
20:10:35kugelI doubt QS is going to have a dedicated button
20:10:54bertrikAt least I'd like to keep using PLAY to go up in lists and STOP to go down in lists
20:10:59kugelLambdaCalculus37: do you think this is acceptable?
20:11:10LloreanLambdaCalculus37: Well, we've discussed changing it for the c200 too
20:11:22LambdaCalculus37kugel: It works for me, but I think long play would be better.
20:11:33Lloreankugel: QS should have a dedicated button, it does on other targets
20:11:39Lloreanbertrik: QS is not just a WPS-only feature now
20:11:43LloreanEspecially given that it's customizable.
20:11:58LloreanIt may be used to change the file view (which only makes sense in the tree) or adjust audio settings before playing back an mpeg...
20:12:05kugelLlorean: I think QS is one of the things that can be done with a combo if we're short on buttons
20:12:07LloreanNone of these are "WPS-only" type adjustments.
20:12:29Lloreankugel: We aren't that short, though, or we would be on the iPod Nano.
20:12:33 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
20:12:35kugelLambdaCalculus37: basically, I'd prefer log home, or short power for stop
20:12:53LloreanShort power should be stop when possible, I think
20:13:25kugelok, sounds good to me
20:13:53LambdaCalculus37Same here.
20:14:03kugelimo, short home should go to the wps, and back from the wps
20:14:31LloreanShort "select" should leave the WPS
20:14:37LloreanThere's really no reason to change this.
20:14:56kugelbut back from wps is sufficiently fullfilled by down and select, so that's not too important
20:15:08LambdaCalculus37kugel: While we're on the keymap subject, what is the button layout on the Fuze like? Is it similar to the Clip, or a little different?
20:15:24LloreanThe Fuze ought to be the e200 keymap, right? It has a wheel?
20:15:56kugelLambdaCalculus37: similar, just swap volume buttons with a scrollwheel (which changes things drastically)
20:16:15LambdaCalculus37kugel: So more like the e200 keymap, like Llorean mentioned?
20:16:23 Quit Acksaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:16:28kugelmore like yes, but not the same
20:16:39Lloreankugel: Why is it different?
20:16:43bertriklinuxstb, I played a little with using the target name to search for a wps, but I got a bit stuck after discovering that the "target" variable is like "-D=SANSA_CLIP" instead of simply "SANSA_CLIP" or "clip"
20:17:50kugelbecause power is quite hard to use (it's a much smaller switch), and the e200 has the hardly used rec button while the fuze has the (supposedly not so hardly used) home button
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20:19:26Lloreankugel: So the difference is "we use the Home button for everything the power button did except actually turning the power off, and we don't have a record button"?
20:20:00kugelthat would basically be it, yes
20:20:33LloreanWhat else changed?
20:21:59kugelI didn't figure out the exact keymap yet
20:22:37LloreanThat's not really an answer...
20:23:14kugelI cant give you a exact answer without having thought about the exact keymap
20:23:21LloreanWhy does it need to change, then?
20:23:26kugelbut what you said is what i had in my mind too
20:24:20kugelchange what?
20:24:52LloreanAnything other than swapping the Power button on the e200 for the Home button on the Fuze
20:25:03LloreanFor all non-power features.
20:26:04kugelI don't know what would to be changed
20:26:59kugelthere's probably some changes to compensate the missing rec button (which is actually used at some places), that's all I can imagine for now
20:27:13LloreanThe record button is all non-essential stuff.
20:27:31kugelsome plugins do essential stuff on that one
20:27:40LloreanI'm talking about the core keymap, sorry.
20:27:50LloreanPlugin keymaps don't really matter in the same way.
20:28:25kugelbut I propose we discuss the exact keymap as soon as the home button and scrollwheel are working properly
20:28:35kugel(for the fuze I mean)
20:28:38LloreanWhat needs to be discussed regarding it in the core?
20:29:35kugelcan you stop asking me as if I had a complete keymap in my mind?
20:30:09kugela talk about that is not very useful until all buttons are working, so we don't have to do that now
20:30:33kugelI'm just saying that there's likely not changing vs the e200 keymap except that what you said
20:30:58LloreanYou never actually said that...
20:31:29LloreanThat's more or less what I was asking for.
20:31:52linuxstbbertrik: You want to pass $archos (which should be renamed $modelname - it comes from MODELNAME in the Makefile, not ARCHOS any more) from to
20:31:53kugelOk, are we fine again then? :)
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20:32:14linuxstbbertrik: Probably in addition to $target
20:33:52bertriklinuxstb, aaah thanks, I think I'll play a bit with that and put it on the FS task when I have something useful
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20:46:39 Quit TheSphinX^ ("XChat@Linux")
20:48:11kugelbertrik: I upload another wps to the task, which is very similar to your first one
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20:52:13 Nick kugel_ is now known as kugel (
20:52:27bertrikkugel, looks nice, did you use a different font?
20:53:43bertrikfor some reason I can't think of now, I left a area of 1 black pixel around the wps, with is not necessary
20:57:13 Part toffe82
20:58:54linuxstbkugel, bertrik: Why not simply move the statusbar into the yellow?
20:59:30bertriklinuxstb, it's a possibility indeed. All other cabbiev2 have the status bar on the bottom IIRC
21:01:13linuxstbYes, I think it looks wrong there as well, but it's even worse on the Clip - the LCD is physically designed to have the statusbar at the top...
21:02:29kugelbertrik: I actually used the font that's supposed to be used
21:02:55kugelbertrik: I added a 128x64x1 in case in wps list, so that rockfont is compiled
21:03:40kugellinuxstb: it's probably subjective, but I like the statusbar at the bottom
21:04:32kugeland having the now playing bar at the bottom doesn't sound more correct to me either
21:05:08bertrikit's on the top in the list... I wouldn't mind having it on top in the WPS too, but it seems to be a violation of the cabbiev2 style
21:05:19 Quit xnyhps ("leaving")
21:05:56kugelbertrik: yea, and I think it should be at the top, not at the bottomg (which would happen if the status icons are moved to the top, not?)
21:06:14kugelah, you mean the statusbar in the list
21:06:23kugelwell, those aren't really comparable
21:06:42kugelother than that, it doesn't require much coding the have the statusbar possibly at the bottom
21:06:51kugel(the list one)
21:08:17bertrikkugel, what exactly did you do to make the clip WPS use rockfont?
21:10:50*kugel thinks the font selection should be entirely undependent of the lcd width and bit depth
21:11:35pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: you do not miss a one button resume on the c200? That's what I changed in my patch - VolUp is "Resume" (go to WPS) and VolDown is "Stop" in lists and if I use an SVN build for whatever reasons, I miss that
21:12:58kugelpixelma: does that work well?
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21:13:19kugelI imagine that's way batter than volume in lists
21:13:26LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Now that you mention it, I kinda do miss that. I haven't used the new keymap in ages. :)
21:14:17kugelpixelma: it seems we're going for power = stop, I think the c200 should do that as well
21:14:18pixelmakugel: yepp, nicely
21:14:37kugelfor the sake of consistency
21:14:48kugelif possibly, of course
21:14:55pixelmakugel: power is "menu" wherever possible on the c200, keeping that consistent is more important IMO
21:15:31kugelpixelma: well, that's how it's been on the e200 too, until it was changed to down
21:16:08pixelmaand please don't change any keymaps on targets you can't try on - sim and real target is so much different because of physical button layout
21:16:29pixelmayou can't use down as "menu" on the c200 because you need it as "down"
21:16:29bertrikkugel, thanks for the patch. Rockfont-8 is a little too small for my taste.
21:16:33kugelunless REC is a highly used button on the c200, that one could be used for menu I imagine
21:16:57kugelthat would be free over all places, not?
21:17:14pixelmaRec is on the side (bottom) and totally not intuitive as a menu button (IMO) on the c200
21:17:45kugelI imagine that would work nicely
21:17:57kugeland allow more consistency over targets
21:18:59kugelwell, just an idea. You own that target, not me :)
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21:24:14pixelmaok, I try to be open to brainstorming since I'm still not happy with the keymap (also the patch) but in this case I think Power is the better menu button because it's easier to reach
21:24:47kugelpixelma: btw, I wonder if you could test my 4th quickscreen item patch. I'm curious if the c200 screen is big enough (it surely depends on the font)
21:25:29pixelmaand using Rec as menu sounds awkward (although I know some targets use it like the M5/X5 and the H100)
21:26:41kugelI can't really tell how hard it is to reach rec, it just sounds good to me in theory ;)
21:27:19pixelmait impresses me more and more how intuitive the Ondio keymap feels (with even less buttons)
21:27:37LloreanI agree, "Power" is the better menu button on c200
21:27:42LloreanNothing else really makes sense physically
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21:28:05Lloreanpixelma: H100 doesn't use Rec as menu. It uses "A-B"
21:28:14AlystairI know this has to be the oddest thing ever, but is there a version of rockbox available for Symbian OS?
21:28:19Alystairlike S60
21:28:25LloreanAlystair: No. The list on the page is still accurate.
21:28:39pixelmakugel: the c200 is not the target with the smallest screen that can show a quickscreen...
21:28:41AlystairNo way to get rockbox as a cellphone app then, eh? :/
21:28:47Bagderand no, that's not the oddest thing ever :-)
21:29:02rasherI imagine S60 wouldn't be the hardest thing to target
21:29:09BagderAlystair: dive in, make it happen!
21:29:11pixelmaLlorean: ok, but on M5/X5 menu is on the "Rec/A-B" button
21:29:16Alystairyou'd get such a huge market share of cellphones
21:29:16LloreanAlystair: It's been done on a Motorola phone, in a limited manner.
21:29:26Lloreanpixelma: The H100 series has separate Record and A-B buttons. :)
21:29:30Alystairbecause the built-in system and all apps I've found so far are absolute trash
21:29:34LloreanAlystair: Well, someone with the phone needs to work on it.
21:29:43*rasher quickly scuttles away
21:29:47pixelmashould have known... I drew them ;)
21:29:49AlystairBagder: just because I know how to get on IRC doesn't mean I automatically know C/whatever Rockbox is coded in
21:29:56LloreanAlystair: We aren't going for "market share" so much as "what keeps us interested".
21:29:59Bagderno? darn!
21:30:10AlystairYeah it'd be awesome
21:30:16LloreanSo start learning C. :)
21:30:46LloreanI'd imagine at least in that case, there's minimal reverse engineering necessary.
21:31:32rasherYeah, you'd just be going through published apis, in all likelyhood
21:31:39rasherRather than directly at the hardware
21:32:02kugelLlorean: I'm going to commit FS #9662 soon, in case you want to test for quirks
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21:32:44pixelmakugel: and the c200 has a limited quickscreen too - only available from the WPS - and I'm reaaallly seldom use the quickscreen at all, usually only by accident or if I test something
21:32:44kugelI'm going to test it in every day use tomorrow and on the weekend, then make sure what to do about the langs, then commit if all goes well
21:33:08kugelpixelma: only in wps? that should be changed imo
21:33:10AlystairI still can't believe the battery life on this damn thing
21:33:13Alystair3 days of wifi.
21:33:23pixelmakugel: do you have a free button?
21:33:27BigBambiAlystair: Sorry to be a pain, but please stay on topic
21:33:28Lloreankugel: If you do commit, could you do the spacing cleanup separately so it's easier to visually spot what actually changed in the diff?
21:33:37AlystairBigBambi: np, will idle
21:33:46BigBambiAlystair: Cheers :)
21:33:54kugellet it be on REC, or move stop to rec and let it be on vol-down
21:34:17kugelLlorean: ok
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21:35:40pixelmabefore making the c200 keymap even more awkward, I could much more easily do without the quickscreen completely
21:36:53kugelyou mean intentionally leaving QS out, while virtually every target can access it?
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21:37:29BigBambiIf it helps the rest of the keymap, I wouldn't be adverse to dropping the QS
21:37:49Lloreankugel, pixelma: The question still really boils down to "should the volume buttons be allowed to do something other than volume in the list"
21:37:49*BigBambi thinks of the meizu M3 with its *huge amount of buttons /sarcasm
21:37:50pixelmakugel: the Ondio and the Player don't have a quickscreen
21:38:14kugelLlorean: and I don't think it has to be
21:38:25kugelbut I do think the qs should be accessible
21:38:26casainhomcuelenaere: hello :-) −− you are not listed on the KnowledgeMap, can I know in what do you have experiency and in what you like?
21:38:29LloreanBigBambi: Touchscreens basically have 9 virtual buttons that are fairly easy to use (imagine a tic-tac-to board)
21:38:43BigBambiLlorean: The meizu M3 doesn't have a touchscreen
21:38:50pixelmaand in case of the Ondio (which I can say something about) it really helps the keymap
21:39:10LloreanBigBambi: Oh, I thought they did. Sorry
21:39:16LloreanThey're the one with the little strip, then, right?
21:39:17kugelthe ondio has 5 buttons? the c200 has way more
21:39:19mcuelenaerecasainho: ehm I would guess that be porting Rockbox to the Onda and the Creative ZVM? :)
21:39:19BigBambiLlorean: It has one button, plus a vertical pad that lets you press top, middle and bottom + "slide" up and down on it
21:39:34 Quit intrados ()
21:39:34LambdaCalculus37BigBambi: Plus a hold switch, right?
21:39:35 Join faemir [0] (
21:39:37linuxstbSo whose idea was it to port Rockbox to that? ;)
21:39:44BigBambiLambdaCalculus37: yes
21:39:48BigBambilinuxstb: gevaerts !
21:39:49kugelI don't think the c200 button situation is comparably poor
21:40:13BigBambiSorry, two buttons
21:40:19casainhomcuelenaere: ah, okok ;-) −− because I saw you joined Rockbox Player discussion group ;-) −− I have some questions but I will ask you there, so others developers can also see :-)
21:40:20 Join intrados [0] (
21:40:31pixelmakugel: the Ondio has 6 buttons and while the c200 has 9 - it doesn't help much because the physical layout is quite bad so that some buttons are not really nice to use for everything
21:40:38casainhomcuelenaere: would you like to help on SD Card drivers?
21:40:44BigBambier no, one button
21:40:51mcuelenaerecasainho: yes, that was just so I could get the discussions in my mailbox, nothing special
21:40:53*BigBambi finally went to look at his Meizu M3
21:40:57casainhomcuelenaere: because I am working on it and alone... :-(
21:41:02 Quit intrados (Remote closed the connection)
21:41:17casainhomcuelenaere: ah, okok :-)
21:41:21kugelpixelma: QS on REC, or STOP on REC and QS on vol down sounds less "awkward" to me than not having quickscreen at all
21:41:23mcuelenaerecasainho: well, that would be rather hard without the target and I think I already have my hands full on the onda :)
21:41:59pixelmawow, from none to 2 quickscreen buttons?
21:42:01Bagdercasainho: mcuelenaere is quite alone himself on the mips front
21:42:26 Join intrados [0] (
21:42:27 Quit linuxstb (Remote closed the connection)
21:42:34mcuelenaere(and on the Creative front :) )
21:42:37casainhomcuelenaere , Bagder : okok ;-)
21:42:41Bagderthat too, yes
21:42:45Bagdera loner that guy
21:42:50Bagderbeware! ;-)
21:42:56casainhoeheh :-)
21:43:11kugelpixelma: two?
21:43:15 Quit intrados (Remote closed the connection)
21:43:22mcuelenaereanyway, casainho: don't the other dev's in your group can help you?
21:44:05casainhomcuelenaere: well, one is more from hardware... and others don't look like to be able to program this kind of MCUs
21:44:12rasherpixelma: there was an "or" in there
21:44:15pixelmakugel: to me the quickscreen is really low priority, I got used to have none. The M5 has a "normal" quickscreen and I often forget about it (and don't miss it). It's only a "nice to have" while basics like resume is much more important to me
21:44:39Lloreanpixelma: I don't think Resume and QS are mutually exclusive on the c200
21:44:43*mcuelenaere wonders what's harder to implement, a SD driver or a NAND..
21:44:50casainhocasainho: well, but I got the SD Card Init working, soon I will be able to mount the partition ;-)
21:44:52 Join intrados [0] (
21:45:03LloreanI think "resume" and "stop" could go on the volume buttons to make things easier all around
21:45:10kugelpixelma: short rec is free on the c200 isn't it?
21:45:17pixelmaLlorean: maybe, but only if you can come up with a nice suggestion...
21:45:18casainho2it's not far the end to be able to run Rockbox on it ;-)
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21:45:35mcuelenaerethat sounds as good news :)
21:45:41kugelno QS is better than QS on a "awkward" button?
21:45:45pixelmakugel: I don't know off the top of my head, I don't think it is always free
21:45:53Lloreanpixelma: I'm firmly in the camp that believe volume isn't necessary in the lists. It should be the last thing we have there, if we have buttons free. On the c200 we don't really have buttons free.
21:46:14*rasher agrees
21:46:17*BigBambi too
21:46:34*kugel too
21:46:35*domonoky too, and extends it to the m200v4 :-)
21:46:39rasherUnless the hardware makes the buttons seem very volume-specific
21:46:49LloreanIt's _very_ nice, but if it's one-button to get back to the WPS, it's hardly necessary compared to removing functions entirely. :)
21:46:59LloreanAnd QS isn't a WPS-only function, so it shouldn't require music playing to access it.
21:47:16Lloreanrasher: Well, they're about as volume-specific as the ones on the Gigabeat F series
21:47:22pixelmakugel: to me yes ;) and the awkward meant that it shouldn't move other things to more awkward places
21:47:35 Join Sturm [0] (
21:48:38Lloreanrasher: It's a long "button" with 'Volume' written on it, and an arrow on the left and right side, pressing the right side increases volume, the left side decreases it. It's definitely a 'volume' bar, but there's no practical reason it couldn't easily do something else in the list (and still be used for volume in the WPS)
21:48:43Sturmneed help
21:48:50BigBambiSturm: best ask
21:48:55BigBambiSturm: can't read minds
21:49:03BigBambiSturm: No matter how terse the message
21:50:33Sturmis there any version for the phillips go gear sa177/00 512mb mp3 player ?
21:50:38pixelmaLlorean: can't see "Volume" written on the button
21:50:49LambdaCalculus37Sturm: Nope.
21:51:01Lloreanpixelma: My c200 says volume
21:51:05Sturmnot good
21:51:18BigBambiSturm: If want, need work
21:51:35LambdaCalculus37Sturm: No one's stopping you from starting a port:
21:52:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:53:10pixelmaLlorean: interesting, I can see a "Rec" on the Rec button but no "Volume". It's a bit worn but doesn't look like a writing could have ben rubbed off
21:53:28Sturmu wanna make me a version for my player ?
21:53:49BigBambiA port is a *huge* amount of work
21:53:55kugelSturm: If anyone, then you want to make a version, and we won't stop you
21:54:05BigBambiSturm: Interested owners do it, it is not done on request
21:54:14Sturmkugel was wolln die xD?
21:54:21pixelmaLlorean: maybe it could, the "Rec" is also quite light. But that's not very important I guess
21:54:55Lloreanpixelma: My REC is quite dark and seems to be the same font/size as the volume.
21:55:38LloreanBut yes, doesn't matter too much, I think
21:58:03LambdaCalculus37Sturm: This channel is English-only, and we're serious about on-topic talk.
21:58:49Sturmenglish word 4 "krmelkacker"?
21:59:11BigBambiSturm: Neither is this an online translation service
21:59:15 Join Xqtftqx [0] (i=4cbd1ba9@gateway/web/ajax/
21:59:22 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
21:59:30pixelmaSturm: "Kick" ;)
21:59:43Sturmi dont think so :D
22:00:27XqtftqxHey, has anybody looked at the zune lately? Im wondering if anybody still is looking for some exploits so we can get rockbox working
22:00:29Mode"#rockbox +o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:00:48 Join Rob2223 [0] (
22:00:48BagderXqtftqx: I don't think anyone from here ever looked very closely
22:01:12LloreanSturm: Behave. The channel has guidelines, you are expected to follow them.
22:01:13XqtftqxIm not sure if anybody has herd of the font thing, using your own Unicode fonts
22:01:33XqtftqxMaybe theres a possibilty of trying to run a corrupt font
22:01:38Sturmdoes rockbox work on mp3 stickplayers ?
22:01:41pixelmaSturm: and if you follow the link in the topic you'll know why
22:01:43BagderXqtftqx: we hear of font things, can you be more specific?
22:01:46LloreanSturm: It only works on the players listed on the site.
22:01:59XqtftqxLet me grab a link to the hack, hold on one sec
22:02:05Sturmi know ^^
22:02:46Xqtftqx Thats all i could find off hand, its a step by step
22:03:37XqtftqxIt would require users to downgrade the firmware, load something that asks for the font, and im not sure how the zune would handle corrupt fonts
22:04:10 Quit Acksaw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:05:38Bagderthat write-up is might confusing to my old brain
22:05:48 Part Sturm
22:05:51*linuxstb doesn't follow it either...
22:06:27XqtftqxBasicly its adding a font folder to the .cab file and putting the fonts into that folder
22:06:41Xqtftqxthen changing your dns settings and running a server that tells the zune software of an upgrade
22:07:41linuxstbZune firmware upgrades are .cab files?
22:07:56XqtftqxYeah, with a nk.bin, recovery.bin, and a eboot.bin
22:08:10XqtftqxAll signed with some encryption
22:08:42 Join toffe82 [0] (
22:09:30Bagderbut sure, it certainly says you can "add any font" so it would be a way to try for buffer overflows
22:09:38Bagderstill a long shot
22:09:53XqtftqxYeah, im not sure how the device would handle a corrupt font either
22:10:01Xqtftqxand how would we create a corrupt font?
22:10:13Bagderwith a hex editor I'd guess
22:10:26Bagderfigure out the format, then try different variation of crazinesses
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22:11:06XqtftqxThere is a font exploit for the orginal xbox
22:11:21XqtftqxIm not sure how the devies are compared to each other
22:11:34LloreanI'd assume you'd look for known Windows Mobile font issues.
22:11:41Bagderprobably different, but it could serve as education into the field
22:12:05Xqtftqx Theres another write up
22:12:13XqtftqxWith pics, and alot easy reading
22:12:39 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
22:12:50Bagderseems to be "ttc" font format
22:13:43Bagderbut... those are unencrypted?
22:13:50linuxstbSeems that buffer overflow exploits have been done before in Windows Mobile -
22:14:00 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
22:14:30XqtftqxYeah, fonts are unencrypted
22:14:48Bagderso did you try to just put any junk there with a .ttc extension?
22:14:59Bagderor even with any extension
22:15:11XqtftqxI havent tried yet
22:15:20Bagderpresumably, there is some kind of check
22:15:27 Join Zagor [242] (
22:15:40Bagderis it possible to rename/move files on the zune fs?
22:15:52XqtftqxOnly with opening the case
22:15:59 Quit reacocard (Remote closed the connection)
22:16:05BagderI mean, could you put "format.ext" as "format.ttc" to get it there, then rename it back on the target?
22:16:19Bagderformat.exe I mean
22:16:25XqtftqxOnly with opening the case
22:16:29LloreanBagder: Zune is database-based. It's basically permanently MTP except that it's a modified MTP.
22:16:47Bagderright, but perhaps you can move/rename with the actual device
22:16:56linuxstbIs the Zune still only officially available in the US and Canada?
22:17:03BagderI think so
22:17:15LloreanBagder: AFAIK there's no file browser, you'd just be renaming the tags / database location I assume (if you even can rename)
22:17:40XqtftqxThere is some harddrive dumps avaible if anybody is intrested i can send them a link
22:17:41LloreanBut I've only played with one briefly.
22:17:45LloreanMaybe with images or something
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22:18:00 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:18:24linuxstbMaybe modifiying the database would stand more chance - I would assume the font parsing code is a generic lib, and hence likely to be more robust than custom (I assume) database code.
22:18:29 Quit faemir ("Leaving")
22:18:32XqtftqxImages could be pretty easy to replace, but what file formats does the zune support?
22:19:16BagderI'd guess buffer overflows in funny images already have been tested for
22:19:37Xqtftqxmost likely
22:20:06XqtftqxIs there jpeg buffer overflow? I thought i saw one on the microsoft security bullitens
22:20:41kugelXqtftqx: did such an exploit work on windows some time ago?
22:21:18 Join faemir [0] (
22:21:32XqtftqxYeah, i just checked up on the microsft site, the page is gone but a google cache still exists
22:22:00Bagder"Microsoft Multiple Products JPEG Processing Buffer Overflow Vulnerability" =>
22:22:24Bagderbut no mobile/ce mentioned there
22:22:51casainhoJust to share images of SD Card init and LCD:
22:23:55*Bagder spots a nice-looking rockbox logo
22:24:05Zagorwhile on that topic, who wants to guess this flaw might affect ipods too?
22:24:06XqtftqxBagder: The attack is a remote attack, could it be done locally one the device?
22:24:38Bagder"This can be exploited to cause a buffer overflow by tricking a user into viewing a specially crafted JPEG image with any application using the vulnerable component for JPEG image processing."
22:24:46LloreanZagor: It seems at least not too unlikely.
22:25:48*Bagder agrees
22:26:04Bagderdoes the zune support quick time?
22:26:17LloreanDoubt it.
22:26:18XqtftqxMP4s yes
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22:26:56LloreanI imagine Microsoft has their own MP4 handling if they're even still in that container after syncing.
22:26:58 Part vallhalla81
22:27:08Bagder2008-06-25 - Vulnerability reported to vendor
22:27:08Bagder2009-01-21 - Coordinated public release of advisory
22:27:51Bagder"Impact: Accessing a maliciously crafted RTSP URL may lead to an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code execution"
22:28:03jhMikeSthey right on it, huh?
22:29:57Bagderoh man, they fixed _7_ flaws all allowing "arbitrary code execution"
22:30:15XqtftqxOn Zune?
22:30:29Bagderno, in quicktime 7.6
22:30:38Xqtftqxoh okay
22:30:44rasherBagder: I imagine they were sitting on the fixes until they had 7. 7 is a good number.
22:30:46Bagderthat's why I was curious if zune supports that
22:31:03ZagorBagder: I think it looks like 7 different attack vectors to the same flaw
22:31:36Bagderyou think?
22:31:42BagderI read the apple note and I don't think so
22:32:01Zagoron reading further, neither do I...
22:32:11Bagderanyway, it seems we have no target suitable for this
22:32:17 Quit faemir ("Lost terminal")
22:32:37XqtftqxI was just looking at the latest 3.0 zune cab file, and theres some runtimes in here. As well as the 2 included games
22:33:08Zagorit could be worth trying this on the newer ipods, if enough information can be found
22:34:07rasherLlorean: I'm pretty sure FS #9818 is a bug - tag information is supposed to be available before playback starts
22:34:14Zagordoes any dev have a post-pp ipod?
22:34:16Lloreanrasher: Read the description though.
22:34:27LloreanHe says "if you skip quite a few tracks quickly, it shows briefly"
22:35:00XqtftqxIm pretty sure that happens on almost any player, rockbox or original firmware
22:35:04 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
22:35:16rasherLlorean: ah.. I just saw it discussed in here, but hadn't read the bug report
22:35:22Lloreanrasher: He doesn't even mention whether playback's started on the skipped-to track yet, but it's clear he's skipping off-buffer.
22:35:42Zagorthat's not how he described the bug in the channel...
22:35:53rasherI'm more interested in why "next track" sometimes stays at the same track when skipping fast
22:36:02LloreanZagor: Ah, well I wasn't here for in-channel discussion
22:36:23rasherIs that a known bug, or should I bother someone?
22:36:24LloreanThe tracker makes it sound like "If you skip to an off-buffer track, sometimes the WPS shows the "no ID3" information until ID3 information is available"
22:36:42rasherLlorean: that's indeed what he wrote, I think it should stay closed
22:37:19Lloreanrasher: I wasn't aware of the "stays at the same next track" thing. I think that one's undocumented at least.
22:37:49pixelmarasher: now that you mention it, I saw that too only once or twice though
22:37:49ZagorLlorean: yes, I agree. I'm just a little annoyed he didn't say that when we discussed it here.
22:38:43rasherpixelma: Happens to me often.. but then I'm a "skipper" - I tend to just add everything to my playlist and skip over songs I'm not in the mood for
22:38:52XqtftqxBagder: About editing the database on the zune, why would it have to be edited on the device?
22:39:20BagderXqtftqx: I was just curious if you'd be able to put a font on the device, and then rename it to .exe
22:39:31Lloreanrasher: Could it be happening when there's no ID3 info for next track, and instead of updating to the unknown defaults, it's just not updating for some reason?
22:39:51rasherI have a suspicion that the "Next track" only gets updated once I stop skipping, and rebuffering is complete, though I couldn't tell for sure
22:40:05LloreanXqtftqx: It would be ideal if we could come up with a way that didn't require device firmware updates and all that other complication. So it'd help if it were possible for fonts to be installed that way.
22:40:06XqtftqxBagder: Oh okay, maybe you could load a font via libmtp, similar to the Gigabeat S
22:40:09pixelmarasher: could be important then for reproducing. I usually only queuing up songs I like to listen to and put the device away
22:40:25rasherLlorean: It's possible
22:40:38rasherI'll file a bug and hope someone useful can reproduce
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22:41:57XqtftqxLlorean: It would be great even if we could get something running, Zunepet has a much easier upgrade process. But he has decided to not realse it because of the other method and something else. Maybe we could look at his method of updating the firmware
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22:42:09Mode"#rockbox -o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:42:54linuxstbRe: FS9818, shouldn't Rockbox only display the file/folder name when there is no tag data in the file, rather then when the tag data just hasn't been loaded yet? i.e. differentiate between the two types of "unavailable"?
22:43:13rasherlinuxstb: I don't see why it should?
22:43:17Lloreanlinuxstb: So display "Loading..." when we're waiting for it to be available?
22:44:11linuxstbOr nothing, or simply something like "Unknown"
22:44:17 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
22:45:04LloreanI'm not sure differentiation is needed, but if it is I think it should be clear that it's "Not available yet" rather than "Not available" when we show something to users in the new case.
22:45:13 Part Anges
22:45:17linuxstbrasher: Because if Rockbox doesn't you get unexpected behaviour which is why that person called it a bug.
22:45:55linuxstbI think probably just displaying nothing would be cleanest.
22:46:47 Quit Jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]")
22:46:56rasherNothing might actually be better, it should never be for more than a very short time period, right?
22:47:09LloreanNothing's probably okay
22:48:00XqtftqxHas any other rockbox target had to deal with encryption?
22:48:35kugelI think the e200r had
22:48:55XqtftqxDo you know how that was bypassed?
22:48:56Bagdermi4 in general
22:49:01rasherAnd h100
22:49:14rasherVarying levels of effectiveness..
22:49:43BagderXqtftqx: on the sansas we had parts in plain text and a superhero hacker
22:49:52kugelBagder: but the e200r was "more encrypted" than the vanilla e200, wasn't it?
22:50:18Bagderkugel: not quite, but it had a functional digital signing mechanism
22:50:29Bagderthe vanilla has the same but it was flawed
22:50:40kugelah, I didn't know that
22:51:01Bagderthe flaw allows us to use a "dummy key" to sign the firmware
22:51:28n1seven the old archos OF's were "scrambled" iirc
22:51:36bertrikas far as I understand the sansa c200/e200 bootloader is not encrypted and contains the key for the encrypted main firmware
22:51:43Zagorn1s: yes
22:52:46XqtftqxHas there been any attempt of usb sniffing the zune? Mabye when it updates the database, we could change something
22:53:19BagderXqtftqx: all zune info we have is in the twiki or the forum thread. But in general that's not a lot
22:53:32Bagderno rockbox dev has ever worked on zune afaik
22:59:00mcuelenaeredoes anyone here have some experience with raw NAND data analysation?
22:59:04n1sZagor: to answer you earlier question, i got my 4G nano today
22:59:58Zagorn1s: ah, nice
22:59:59Bagdermcuelenaere: shotofadds is probably a good person to talk to
23:00:15mcuelenaerehmm yes, but he's not much online, is he?
23:01:20XqtftqxDoes anybody have any good packet sniffing experience? I think i may be getting somewhere with this zune
23:01:56XqtftqxWhat im doing is started a network kinda like ad-hoc but it isnt. Then having the zune wirelessly sync, when it gets connected i can run some port scans, and packet sniff some data
23:04:41preglowi think i've got shoto's mail addy
23:04:41Zagorn1s: then I guess it's up to you to start crafting creative images and movies for it :-)
23:06:21mcuelenaerepreglow: could you give it to me? if not, I'll just PM him on the forums
23:06:57linuxstbmcuelenaere: I recall shotofadds saying he couldn't access IRC during the day, but he reads the logs (or at least, used to - I haven't seen him for a while)
23:07:16mcuelenaerelogbot says he was here ~6 days ago
23:07:20 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
23:08:04Zagorn1s: perhaps try this:
23:08:45XqtftqxIpod 4g supports tiff?
23:08:47preglowmcuelenaere: might as well just pm on the forums, i can't seem to find the address :/
23:09:01mcuelenaerepreglow: never mind, Bagder gave it to me
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23:11:07vallhalla81hey there all looking for a little help installing rockbox from ubuntu
23:11:33XqtftqxI dont think a image attack is going to work on the zune, you get a error about converting the image
23:11:39XqtftqxI attempted a jpeg overflow
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23:12:33ZagorXqtftqx: you need to use the attack vector that is vulnerable. most will not be.
23:13:21*JdGordon gets annoyed with these "bug reports" which you have to mash skip/prev half a dozen times quickly to see
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23:15:24XqtftqxIm going to try to downgrade the firmware, then use a hard drive hack to place the image
23:15:39XqtftqxThat should bypass the converting process
23:19:01XqtftqxI will attempt a corrupt font as well
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23:23:53CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
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23:29:18kugelZagor: are you still planning to shrink the pcm buffer (with or without microboost)?
23:29:18n1sZagor: thanks for the link, will try to look at this stuff during the weekend, 0 experience with exploiting security holes though
23:30:06Zagorkugel: not before taking a wider grip on the playback code
23:30:25kugela nice side effect of this just came into my mind, toggling dsp effects would would be heared with less delay
23:30:41kugel(crossfeed just turned immediately on on my clip, and I found it nice)
23:31:18Zagoryes, there are a number of benefits. but a simplistic slashing of the buffer is likely to introduce bugs. I'd rather wait and do a proper overhaul instead.
23:31:22jhMikeSwhat's a "microboost"?
23:32:01 Quit petur (Remote closed the connection)
23:32:17kugeljhMikeS: boosting without delay, i.e. without waiting for other hardware parts to synchronize
23:34:00jhMikeSthat would be very good for true low-latency audio
23:34:25kugelwhich also includes not wasting further energy on the act of boosting
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23:40:38gartralcan i make a grammatical change too the rockbox player page in the wiki?
23:41:47 Quit intrados (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:43:45JdGordononly if you're change makes it less wrong than currently
23:43:46evilnickgartral: I'd guess so as long as you don't misuse to and too ;)
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23:49:57 Quit funman ("Ciao, je vais mouler ou pougner.")
23:50:02 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
23:50:03gartralok, heres what i got so far , should i post this, or do you have any suggestions?
23:52:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:54:48linuxstbgartral: I don't understand your changes to the third paragraph - "Since faster micro-controllers and memory are cheaper"...
23:55:46 Quit parafin (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:55:47 Quit itcheg (" ajax IRC Client")
23:56:31gartraljust trying too make sense of it, look at the page and my edits, also, reload, i changed 2 things already
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