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#rockbox log for 2009-01-30

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00:54:43 Join Eggbertx [0] (
00:55:04Eggbertxhey can someone help me? my copmuter thinks my sansa is an mp3 player so it wont let me put rockbox on it
00:55:24Eggbertxit worked untill i updated the sansa firmware
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00:55:44krazykitEggbertx, make sure it is in MSC mode, not MTP mode (for USB)
00:56:14Eggbertxmtp=thinks its an mp3 player?
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00:56:28Eggbertxits mtp
00:57:01Eggbertxi thought it was problem with f/w
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04:36:39webguest45hello everyone
04:36:57advcomp2019webguest45, hello
04:37:43webguest45im trying to load rockbox onto my refurb e260R sansa and I cant load it automatically using the utility, and ideas?
04:38:13webguest45it is a version .1
04:38:58advcomp2019you do not have an e200r.. that is a plain e200
04:39:48webguest45I did not think it was as it isnt the *Rhapsody* model
04:40:22webguest45i checked by looking in the ubd and it is not the rhapsody model
04:40:57advcomp2019yea.. if the rockbox utility does not work, you might try the manual install which is in the manual
04:41:24webguest45do i have to run the sansapatch for that?
04:41:58webguest45im a bit pc illiterate so thats why im here LOL
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04:50:03webguest07im back I got booted off
04:50:11webguest07i was guest45 earlier
04:51:07webguest07i dont know how to manually load rockbox onto my sansae200 anyone here that can help me? I dont understand the manual on how to load it
04:52:12advcomp2019the manual install uses the sansapatcher but did the rockbox utility work
04:52:39webguest07no the utility didnt work it couldnt find the sansa on my pc
04:53:12advcomp2019are you using MSC mode in the usb mode?
04:53:35webguest07yes I am using the MSC mode in the usb mode
04:54:30webguest07i read in the graphic instructions that using the utility with a snasa that the proxy may have to be changed to be able to use the utility but I dont know what to change in the proxy settings on my pc or in the utility
04:54:30advcomp2019so did you select the sansa in the rockbox utility then?
04:54:56webguest07yes I did select the sans in the rockbox utility and it still didnt find it
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04:55:14webguest07the sansa is connected to my F:/
04:55:55advcomp2019is that the microsd slot or the internal storage?
04:56:39webguest07the internal storage im thinking as it is hooked up to my pc using the usb cord that came with the sansa
04:57:11advcomp2019what is on the f:/ drive then?
04:57:25webguest07i dont have a microsd card installed in the sansa either
04:57:59webguest07the sansa is showing that it is connected to my usb port F:/
04:58:00advcomp2019yea but the microsd slot will still show up without a card
04:58:31 Join countrymonkey [0] (n=4b05639a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:59:25webguest07when I click on My Computer the Sansa is showing under devices with removable storage
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05:00:30advcomp2019yea.. the sansa will show up as two drives tho
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05:01:03webguest55I'm countrymonkey> fs#9709 and #9829 are the same. Could one of them be committed?
05:01:59webguest07yes i see what you mean it is showing but is just showing as *Removable Dick G:/
05:02:46webguest07Dick=Disk LOL
05:03:10advcomp2019o ok.. i was just checking.. you might have to so a manual install then
05:03:25webguest55Chinese-simp has been out of date for over a month and I made 9709 xmas eve day.
05:04:30webguest07so how do I do the manual install do I run the sansapatcher first in dos?
05:05:16advcomp2019what operating system are you on?
05:05:31webguest07windowxxp sp3
05:05:42webguest07windows xp sp3
05:06:13webguest07when I run the sansapatcher it pops up a dos window
05:06:43advcomp2019do you have administrator rights? yes, it will popup like that
05:06:59webguest07yes I do have admin rights
05:08:31advcomp2019did the sansapatcher work? did you follow the steps?
05:10:41webguest07I havent done the sansapatcher yet, I figured I would come on the chat and ask before I attempted it just to make sure I was supposed to run the sansapatcher first before anything else. Is the sansapatcher the first step or is that the way that rockbox is loaded manually?
05:13:16advcomp2019the manual takes about how to run the sansapatcher.. i thought it did at least
05:14:41webguest07yes it does talk about how to run the sansapatcher. I guess my question is, after I run the sansapatcher will rockbox be loaded onto my sansa and thats all I have to do to load rockbox completely onto my sansa?
05:15:58cool_walking_No, you need to also unzip a build onto it, which the manual also tells you about.
05:16:26advcomp2019you need to load the .rockbox folder then the font then run the sansapatcher from what i see on the manual.. i think the manual tells it good enough
05:16:26cool_walking_and then you've got optional fonts and themes if you want them.
05:17:21webguest07ok thats what I thought. Thats what I dont know how to do, when I unzip the rockboz .zip file I dont know how to put the files onto the sansa
05:18:18advcomp2019you can drag and drop or extract straight to the sansa
05:18:32webguest07do I just open up the sansa main file folder and then put the .zip file into that folder?
05:18:48cool_walking_extract the .zip into that folder
05:18:58cool_walking_so you end up with a ".rockbox" directory.
05:19:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:20:08webguest07ok thats where I get lost, I dont know how to extract the .zip file into that folder
05:20:41webguest07do I right click on the zip file , because when I do there is no*extract* in the popup window when I right click it,
05:21:11cool_walking_You can use 7-zip.
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05:28:40webguest96that is if I get botted off
05:28:40Unhelpfulthose patches aren't the same :/
05:30:04webguest96okm now I have a directory .rockbox in the F:/ now what do I do?
05:31:12advcomp2019then you can install the fonts or themes now if you want but now you can run the sansapatcher
05:34:55 Quit XavierGr ()
05:35:12webguest96do install the fonts into the .rockbox file or just onto the F:/?
05:35:53scorcheall the .zips are designed to be extracted to the root
05:36:07webguest96when I extract the fonts file to the F:/ folder it gives me a popup that the .rockbox already exists do I want to overwrite it
05:36:24webguest96is the F;? the root folder?
05:36:38scorcheroot refers to the top-most level in a drive
05:36:56scorcheand say yes to will only overwrite files with the same name and as there are none, it will be fine
05:37:11webguest96ok I will do that now
05:38:56webguest96om im going to check out the themes now I will be back in a few
05:40:49webguest96im back already, where do I find the themes?
05:43:40webguest96any recommendations on the themes?
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05:45:38advcomp2019the theme is up to you
05:45:46cool_walking_It's kinda subjective isn't it? Cabbie 2.0 is the default and it comes already installed, so you don't need to install that one.
05:46:28webguest96as in what themes seem to work the best and some of them seem to kind of hide the fonts when the background pic is up
05:47:09cool_walking_Not sure, I haven't used any of those other than Cabbie 2.0. Amarok looks nice though.
05:47:26webguest96so if I dont download any themes then it will just default to the cabbie 2.0?
05:48:10cool_walking_You can install as many as you want and it will still use Cabbie 2.0 if you don't select one of the others. You can switch between them from within Rockbox.
05:48:15webguest96ok and yes I agree Amarok does look nice
05:48:52webguest96ok i see I am sooo behind the times and trying desperately to catch up!!LOL
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05:49:52advcomp2019i use plain text vp on mine but like we said it is up to you
05:50:31webguest96ok thanks alot I appreciate all the help so far
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05:55:14MakuseruI seem to be having a problem with Rockbox. I'm running v3.1 on a Toshiba Gigibeat F40 and any time i try to play a video or audio file, it freezes, and the only way i can get it shut down is to use the real on/off that disconnects it from the battery. Does anyone know what would cause this, and how i can stop it from freezing?
05:55:19webguest96ok i ran the sansapatcher and it is now writing it to my sansa
05:56:01webguest96so after it finishes writing it to my sansa I should be done am I right?
05:56:50advcomp2019yea.. you can safely remove the sansa
05:57:00cool_walking_webguest96: Yep. You just reboot the Sansa (if it doesn't do it itself), and you're running Rockbox.
05:57:42webguest96ok great thanks a bunch all of you for your excellent help, it is very much appreciated AWESOME!!!
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05:58:02cool_walking_Make sure to check out the manual or you'll probably be confused by some things.
05:58:37webguest96yes I will read the maual also,..... hehehe you know me alreayd "confused" LOL
05:59:15webguest96it is still writing to the sansa, about how long does it take to upload?
06:01:26advcomp2019is the sansapatcher done?
06:01:32cool_walking_A minute or two at most I would say.
06:02:34webguest96yes the sansapatcher is done and it is still writing to the sansa
06:03:12cool_walking_You mean the sansa still shows the "writing" thing on it's screen? That notice isn't reliable. It probably isn't still writing
06:03:18cool_walking_Just "safely remove" the sansa
06:03:25webguest96i did extract I think 3-4 themes to it also
06:03:42cool_walking_use the green arrow in the system tray to eject it.
06:04:00webguest96yes it is still showing the "writing" thing on its screen
06:04:20cool_walking_You've "safely remove"d it and it still says that?
06:04:42webguest96no I havent safely removed it yet
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06:06:14webguest96ok i removed it now and Rockbox is now showing on the screen excellent
06:07:58cool_walking_Makuseru: does Rockbox display an error message of any sort or does the screen go black or ..?
06:08:22webguest96hey what software do you guys use to upload music to your mp3. A friend says he uses Limewire, but Iheard that Limewire loads a bunch of junk onto your pc
06:08:48Makuserucool_walking_: The screen just freezes immediately when ever i try to play a video or song. So if its a video it freezes at the first frame. Or if its a song, it freezes at the WPS screen.
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06:09:31cool_walking_On my Sansa I use copy-paste.
06:09:33advcomp2019webguest96, i use drag and drop
06:10:56cool_walking_Makuseru: Have you tried a filesystem check?
06:11:05MakuseruNo i havent.
06:11:22cool_walking_Do you know how to?
06:11:32MakuseruNo i dont.
06:12:17*cool_walking_ tries to find the link with the least ads..
06:14:28Makuserucool_walking_: I'm actually using Kubuntu, sorry, should have mentioned that.
06:15:18cool_walking_ah okay. even easier :) open a console, unmount your device, and do "sudo fsck.vfat -at /dev/sda2"
06:15:28cool_walking_where /dev/sda2 is your FAT partition
06:15:39MakuseruAlright, just a moment.
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06:16:46cool_walking_You may need to install the "dosfstools" package if it isn't already installed.
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06:18:17MakuseruIts doing it now.
06:18:37MakuseruWhat should i be looking for?
06:18:56cool_walking_If it gives you any output, there were problems.
06:19:03kadobanMakuseru: scary output :) i believe fsck is rather quiet when there's nothing wrong
06:19:40MakuseruAll it said was "dosfsck 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN"
06:19:52cool_walking_and it's finished?
06:20:23cool_walking_Okay, so it's not that...
06:21:31MakuseruIts also worth mentioning that ive tried reinstalling rockbox on it, several different versions.
06:22:14MakuseruIt never helped it.
06:22:21cool_walking_Does the original firmware work properly?
06:23:14MakuseruI wouldnt know how to reinstall the original firmware.
06:23:23MakuseruI dont have any of the disks it came with anymore.
06:23:31kadobando the files play without error elsewhere?
06:24:33scorcheMakuseru: the original firmware is still there...the manual and FAQ should tell you how to boot back into it
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06:24:50cool_walking_The manual says dual boot is currently broken on the Gigabeat.
06:25:10Makuserukadoban: Do you mean do they play fine on my computer and such?
06:25:21kadobanMakuseru: yes
06:25:32MakuseruYes. Its fine on my comp.
06:25:37MakuseruAnd it doesnt ever give me an error.
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06:25:39MakuseruIt just freezes.
06:25:55cool_walking_I'm leaning towards hardware problem..
06:26:04MakuseruThink so?
06:26:12MakuseruThat verywell could be it, its several years old.
06:26:16cool_walking_It's the conclusion I jumped to :)
06:26:37MakuseruWell darn.
06:26:53cool_walking_that sentence was meant to discredit me...
06:27:11MakuseruWell i really wouldnt put it past it to be a hardware problem.
06:27:14webguest96thanks for all your help guys have a good night
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06:27:31cool_walking_good night. you're welcome
06:27:32MakuseruIts not in the best of shape, and is currently being held together with tape.
06:29:27scorcheright sorry...didnt scroll up far that i have, i would assume it is a hardware issue as well though
06:30:40MakuseruAnyone want to sell me a Toshiba Gigibeat? lol.
06:31:13MakuseruWell thanks anyway guys.
06:31:17kadobanMakuseru: if it's basically disassembled (depending on how held together with tape it is), you can always make sure everything is connected well and nothing is loose
06:32:53MakuseruIts all assembeled fine, the metal case is just popping off. I reccently had it completely disassembeled to check everything out though and everything was socketed and seated fine.
06:33:06scorcheMakuseru: how did you originally install rockbox?
06:33:21MakuseruWith the Rockbox Installer.
06:33:50scorcheand have you tried using the uninstall feature from the installer then?
06:35:10scorchein GBSYSTEM/FWIMG/ do you have a file named FWIMG01.DAT.ORIG ?
06:35:25MakuseruJust a second, let me check.
06:36:03MakuseruNo i dont.
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07:23:04lee321987(been away for about a month) any progress on the "2 bytes inserted" SD driver bug on the c200?
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07:53:48kadobanare anonymous structs and unions against rockbox style? i can't find anything that says either way
07:59:15Unhelpfulkadoban: i've not gotten any hassle over using them, when there's been a good reason.
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08:01:56Unhelpfulie, using an anon union as a way of having a different type/name for a field on target vs sim? not ok. using one for having a different name/type for a field based on the value of another field? ok (see pluginlib configfile)
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08:07:37kadobanUnhelpful: okay thanks. it's the second one :)
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08:10:37Unhelpfuli also can't think of any language feature that's specifically banned in the style guide, aside from typedef of structs
08:19:13amiconnUnhelpful: if (v > 0x8000) ? I think it should be if (v >= 0x10000)
08:20:25Unhelpfulhrm... isn't that the same?
08:20:35amiconnNot at all
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08:21:03amiconn0x8001...0x8002... 0xffff are all > 0x8000
08:21:38Unhelpfulah! i see, will fix that right away.
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08:23:32Unhelpfulany ideas on a better way to decide how to implement clz? i don't think any targets other than ARMv5+ have it as an instruction, do they?
08:23:32amiconnBesides, the ___builtin_clz() used by gcc is a bit more efficient, at the cost of using more binsize. It only categorizes the byte where the leading bit is, then uses a lookup table
08:24:01amiconnImo using a whole byte table is a bit overkill, but a 4 bit table would be okay I think. That's just 16 bytes
08:24:47amiconnI also don't understand why you're special-casing the uval == 0 case
08:25:59Unhelpful__builtin_clz(0) is undefined
08:27:46amiconnIs it? The arm clz() instruction returns 32 as expected.
08:29:25amiconnIt may be due to an x86 quirk. Iirc the x86 has an instruction for this where uval == 0 is undefined
08:30:13Unhelpfulthe x86 one returns 30 consistently, it seems
08:30:36amiconnThe special case could go into static inline int clz() (the one using __bultin_clz() ), and then there could be a special one for arm, as inline asm
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08:31:42amiconnThe software implementation could be made to handle uval == 0 properly (currently it doesn't). A lookup table optimisation would have that for free.
08:33:06amiconnActually I think it would be better to remove the __builtin_clz() variant, and have just 2: one for armv5+ and the software version
08:33:25amiconnThe sim shouldn't have performance issues...
08:34:31Unhelpfulhrm, true. the lookup should be pretty cheap, even if the table's not in cache already? we do a few fdivs before renderning each column, and scanning down a column in lcd_buffer will probably bump a lot of stuff out of the cache
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08:42:37amiconnIt's a single lookup per clz(). Coldfire has no data cache, so it would be helpful to have it in IRAM, but for this plugin it shouldn't be put there
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08:43:10Unhelpfulwhat about ARMv4?
08:43:11amiconnAfaik we want it to run while music is playing some day, and using IRAM in plugins forbids that
08:43:44amiconnWhat about it? ARMv4 has a unified cache
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08:48:02amiconnOr rather, arm7 has a unified cache. arm9 (v4) has separate caches
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08:59:14Unhelpfulok, working on it :)
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09:20:12Unhelpfulwe have a patch:
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09:29:00Unhelpfuli also had several different versions that shifted the value itself until it was one place from overflow, rather than using clz. these were fairly complex compared to this clz, but they might be a good idea on sh - i believe you had said there is no variable shift instruction on sh?
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13:59:36CPrompt^can someone give me some direction on how to set a bookmark please?
14:01:01BigBambiDoes the manual not say?
14:01:22CPrompt^BigBambi: not really.
14:01:39CPrompt^gives the description of the functions but not how to "set" a bookmark
14:02:25BigBambiCPrompt^: I think it is on the WPS context menu
14:02:33BigBambiOr you can set bookmark on stop
14:03:06CPrompt^maybe I am confused on what they mean by "on stop"
14:03:07LloreanI'd assume the option "Create Bookmark" is well named enough for one to infer what it does.
14:03:20CPrompt^Llorean: haven't seen that option.
14:03:24LloreanIt's in the "Bookmarks" menu in the WPS Context menu.
14:03:39BigBambiCPrompt^: If you stop the music, you can set it to set a bookmark automatically
14:03:49BigBambiCPrompt^: Or ask you if you want one
14:04:04BigBambiCPrompt^: Or, as I and Llorean said, it is on the WPS context menu
14:04:17BigBambiIf you want to set a bookmark manually
14:04:19CPrompt^I play a track. I pause it (there's no real stop on iPod I guess), go to play another track. It doesn't bookmark
14:04:40LloreanCPrompt^: There's stop
14:04:44LloreanPausing won't create a bookmark.
14:04:54LloreanBut stop does exist, this too should be in the manual in the description of the controls.
14:05:13CPrompt^well...where is the WPS contect menu?
14:05:21BigBambiIt is
14:05:31BigBambiCPrompt^: The manual tells you, as well as how to stop
14:05:31LloreanBigBambi: The WPS context menu is also described in the manual...
14:05:39BigBambiIt is in the bit I just linked to
14:05:44BigBambiBigBambi: I know
14:05:55BigBambier, Llorear: I know
14:05:59LloreanBigBambi: Sorry, I pressed the wrong thing.
14:06:01BigBambigod damn
14:06:08BigBambihehe :)
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14:52:23Guest29371Hey all - I have Rockbox on my iPod 30g and as of my last update, when I plug the ipod into the computer, nothing happens. I know there is a FORCE IT TO CONNECT procedure, but I don't remember it. Any help?
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14:53:43LambdaCalculus37Try this... from a powered-off state (shut down Rockbox), click on the hold switch, and then connect the iPod to your computer.
14:54:32James79k - one sec
14:54:49LambdaCalculus37Rockbox doesn't have a fully working USB stack yet.
14:54:58LambdaCalculus37Not on iPods, anyway.
14:56:09James79It was working great up until the most recent update - been using RBox for 2 years or so...
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14:58:56BigBambiJames79: What version of Rockbox do you have?
14:59:21James79tell you in one sec - booting up now... although it seems to be freezing at the apple icon
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15:00:04BigBambiJames79: As a bug that was fixed a day or so ago was messing up USB connecting
15:00:11James79Got it... although it's in ipod mode.
15:00:25James79BigBambi: That's probably what it is - I just installed new software.
15:00:29BigBambiJames79: And as there are many new versions every day, you saying newest doesn't mean much :)
15:00:39James79My fault... 'a newer'
15:01:18James79Would an install of the newest release fix it?
15:01:28BigBambiNewer than r19874 should have the fix
15:01:35BigBambiJust install the current build
15:01:48James79Yep yep. Thanks.
15:01:56BigBambiThe current build is updated on every code change (so multiple times per day)
15:04:05James79And we're good
15:04:12James79I just happen to grab the build on the wrong day =)
15:04:37BigBambiyep :)
15:05:00BigBambiBugs occasionally creep in but they are usually fixed quite quickly :)
15:05:49James79Most def. Thanks for all your help.
15:06:48BigBambino problem
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15:31:54PSPdemoni remember there being a patch for doom to add support for things ( dont remember but i think it was obex? )
15:32:08PSPdemonanyone know where that is? ( i think it was a thread on the rockbox site )
15:32:28PSPdemonive searched the forums but cant seem to find :S
15:33:01PSPdemonsorry nvm found it
15:33:03LambdaCalculus37What about Flyspray?
15:33:14PSPdemonyea looked on flyspray
15:33:19PSPdemonbut looked for the wrong thing apparently
15:33:42PSPdemondehacked bex support
15:33:56PSPdemon( didnt that get added into the official builds? )
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15:50:44PSPdemonLambda, it seems it was excepted?
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15:51:15PSPdemonor rather added to CVS
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17:17:55kadobanThe CONTRIBUTING file says "...Don't redefine the language. No new types (structs are structs, not typedefs)..." Is that meant to disallow non-struct/union typedefs?
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17:20:11*domonoky thinks you shouldnt use any typdefs, unless you really need them..
17:21:00kadobanwhen do i really need them? :) i mostly just think they sometimes make my code look better, i assume that doesn't count as a necessity?
17:22:09*domonoky tries to think of a situation where typedefs are helpfull, but fails to find one :-)
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17:24:01n1skadoban: an argument that is often brought up is that it hides things even if it makes the code prettier
17:24:16domonokytypedef might make code "look" better, but it hides things, which makes it less "understandable" at least in my opinion.
17:24:51kadobanokay, i'll just go with that. (i don't really do C that often so my sense of it is usually bad). thanks
17:26:39LloreanHow would people feel about reserving disk space for dircache (and other features that might use a chunk of disk) once enabled so it's impossible to lose the ability to use the feature during syncing?
17:28:10kugelnot good if that would mean rockbox behaves like the sansa OF (i.e. refuse to boot with the message "Please free 30MB for the music database")
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17:28:32Lloreankugel: The point is to avoid that...
17:28:46LloreanReserve the space when you first turn it on, or refuse to enable the feature, so that you *never* need to free more space for it.
17:29:10kugelso rather disable the feature, instead of refusing to boot? that sounds ok
17:29:30*Llorean sighs.
17:29:33Lloreannot disable the feature
17:29:35LloreanRefuse to enable it.
17:29:44gevaertsHow do you calculate the needed space?
17:29:54Lloreangevaerts: Both dircache and database have maximum sizes.
17:30:25gevaertsDoesn't the maximum dayabase size depend on the total number of files?
17:30:51Lloreangevaerts: You can have more files than the database can deal with.
17:31:19LloreanSame with dircache.
17:32:38*gevaerts thinks that this is a limitation that should be solved at some point, not set in stone by depending on it
17:32:53kugelLlorean: sorry, I thought it was about running out of space after the feature was already turned on
17:33:03*evilnick thinks 640 files ought to be enough for anyone
17:33:08Lloreangevaerts: Another alternative is to reserve a "reasonable" amount of space, and never free it *unless* the disk turns out to be full, at which point we also issue a warning.
17:33:55*gevaerts thinks
17:34:48gevaertsIsn't the database transactional? I think making the database update fail gracefully (i.e. stop updating, leave the database as it was before, tell the user) would be the proper solution for this
17:35:32LloreanThe problem is that in the iTunes case, it's very difficult to trim down your collection from the player to get database working again.
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17:36:16LloreanOne could end up on a trip with a player that will require 30 minutes of work just to track down the few songs he wants to remove just to get database working again.
17:36:29n1swe are notoriously bad at error messages :)
17:36:59gevaertsHow would this reserving work anyway?
17:37:23LloreanI would assume just an empty file that sits around until we resize it and use that space.
17:37:45n1swe could just create a dummy file of a predefined size-current db size
17:38:13LloreanEven if there's not a max size of the database, we could approximate a reasonable database size to reserve.
17:38:31LloreanFor example (avg filename length) * (disk size / 4MB)
17:38:47gevaertsSo you have to create that file on shutdown, or on entering USB mode
17:38:53LloreanRather (avg file entry size) * blah
17:38:57n1sbut really i don't think this problem is common or severe enough to have a complicated solution like this and would rather just see graceful failure handling and a helpful error message
17:39:09Lloreangevaerts: You create the file on enabling database, and any time the database is rewritten.
17:39:11*gevaerts doesn't like this solution
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17:39:46kugeln1s: I agree
17:39:48Lloreann1s: The problem is that a graceful failure doesn't allow you to fix it.
17:40:04gevaertson ipod, if you use itunes
17:40:04LloreanA graiceful failure is just a way of saying "we couldn't come up with a way to actually prevent the problem"
17:40:47gevaertsYou *can't* prevent the problem in general
17:40:58LloreanThe user can, if they know it's a potential one in advance.
17:41:06n1sLlorean: i just don't think it's worht the complication to prevent this problem
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17:42:28kugelI haven't experienced this problem even once
17:43:26*gevaerts doesn't think that we should add hackish failure prone code on all targets to work around itunes limitations
17:43:34Lloreankugel: Do you fill up your player with as much audio as you can possibly fit on it?
17:43:53Lloreangevaerts: I don't see as it would be any more failure prone than our existing method is...
17:44:22kugelalthough, the sansa users need to have some free space anyway, due to the stupid of
17:44:47Lloreankugel: So in other words, you haven't filled it all the way because you keep some room to deal with the OF's problems...
17:44:57kugelso my experience probably doesn't count, but sansa users wouldn't need a fix for that too (unti usb is working right)
17:45:00gevaertsLlorean: the existing method is a bit buggy, in that it doesn't fail gracefully (apparently, I don't know...). If that's fixed, the user can easily solve things by removing one file and telling rockbox to update again
17:45:20gevaertsIf that's not possible, the database should still have all files that were on the player before the last update
17:45:54Lloreangevaerts: The database can be loaded by parts. It may not be possible to keep it all in RAM in the worst cases (once the limit is removed)
17:46:02LloreanHow would you know in advance whether the new database will fit or not?
17:47:16LloreanI guess we'd end up with "Not all songs could be added, free up space and try again"?
17:47:17gevaertsLlorean: from my understanding (which is based on what the update process shows, so it may be wrong), updating the database writes new "transaction" files, which then get committed.
17:47:32gevaertsSo yes, you'd get something like that.
17:48:17LloreanI don't see why an idea of reserving some space is actually "bad" though
17:48:39LloreanEven something simple like putting 100 dummy entries in the database that aren't displayed, then replacing them if space is tight, and providing a warning.
17:49:09LloreanWell "simple" as in "not dealing with external files" rather
17:50:03gevaertsThat would help *if* you add less than that number at a time
17:50:29gevaertsIt would be exactly equivalent to just failing gracefully in other cases
17:51:16LloreanThere's no way to prevent failure ever if there's no maximum database size. But you can reduce the odds of it happening dramatically, I think.
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17:52:05LloreanAh well.
17:52:37gevaertsThe main reason I object to a reservation file is that I think it adds interesting failure modes (what if that file isn't the correct size, due to e.g. the user hard-resetting the player?)
17:53:49gevaertsI also don't see the database update failing as that bad (if it's handled gracefully, i.e. the user gets told about it, and it doesn't leave corrupt files around)
17:54:30LloreanI think database needs to be as close to "always works" as we can make it.
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17:54:58LloreanIf filetree were good enough most of the time, we probably wouldn't find database worth the binsize cost anyway, we'd have stuck to the search plugin.
17:57:41gevaertsI agree. I just don't think that reserving space is a good way to achieve that goal
17:57:51n1sthe filetree is clearly superior!
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18:31:41amiconnLlorean, gevaerts: Dircache has a size limitation. Iirc it is 6MB, which however doesn't correspond to a fixed number of files
18:32:16amiconnAnd there's no disk space to reserve for this, as it needs no diskspace. Dircache lives in RAM, exclusively
18:32:49Lloreanamiconn: How does it avoid needing to completely rescan on boot, then?
18:32:54amiconnThe database otoh has no size limit (unless it's loaded to RAM, but I don't know the limit for that)
18:33:27amiconnLlorean: Dircache *always* rescans on boot, just that it usually does it in the background
18:33:49Slasheriamiconn: except when rockbox is flashed on H1xx
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18:34:03amiconnA foreground scan has to be done if the previous dircache size is unknown
18:34:28amiconnSlasheri: I consider that unsupported, as the necessary bootloader is not official
18:34:45Slasheriamiconn: and how do you define what is official or not?
18:35:05LloreanSlasheri: Easy, what we've officially released on the download server...
18:35:07amiconnIs this bootloader installed via rbutil? Does the bootloader download dir contain it?
18:35:26SlasheriLlorean: well, true.. that should be uploaded to the server
18:35:29LloreanBootloaders aren't official until they're the "supported" bootloader in the manual and rbutil.
18:35:29amiconnYou're right, in such a case it dumps the dircache buffer to disk. But afaik this isn't mandatory
18:36:18amiconnLinusN should test it on his h1x0
18:36:53*amiconn doesn't dare to install it on his h180...
18:36:59Lloreanamiconn: 7pre4 is pretty widely tested.
18:37:04 Quit Darksair ("Use the Force, Luke!")
18:37:11LloreanIt's really as safe as we can assume an H100-series bootloader to be.
18:37:30LloreanIt really ought to be renamed to 7 and pushed out, maybe with 3.2
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18:41:45BigBambiamiconn: There are quite a lot of us using 7pre4 for ages now with zero issues
18:42:30BigBambiIt is pretty well tested
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18:48:59*amiconn wonders whether Linus should lend Flasheri a H300 ...
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20:38:38^Migs^if I flash my Sansa e260 with Rockbox, and I decide I don't want it, will the Sansa Firmware Updater be able to flash back the original firmware?
20:38:52evilnick^Migs^: Yes.
20:38:53^Migs^or will it just cause some error that says, "THIS IS NOT A SANSA! FAIL!"
20:39:00evilnick^Migs^: No
20:39:03^Migs^okay, perfect.
20:39:27^Migs^thanks :)
20:39:32evilnickEven though Rockbox is installed, you can easily boot into the OF (Original Firmware) and it'll update as usual
20:39:38pixelmauninstall information are in the installation chapter of our manual too
20:39:50^Migs^yeah I'm reading the manual right now, trying to figure all this out
20:40:23^Migs^what if I don't want to keep the original firmware?
20:40:37evilnickIt's a *VERY* good idea to throroughly read the Fine manual a few times when you first use Rockbox, as most/all questions are answered there.
20:40:51evilnick^Migs^: It is still needed for USB connection (and hence file transfer)
20:41:03^Migs^oh ok
20:41:08evilnick(for the time being)
20:41:37^Migs^Rockbox seems sweet
20:42:03evilnickOnce the Rockbox USB mode works then the only "advantage" of the OF would be DRM supported files. And a more eye-candy look.
20:42:40^Migs^does it work well with the Sansa wheel?
20:43:40^Migs^I bought this e260 for a friend, and I'm considering loading Rockbox on it for her, but I'm not sure if she'll like it as much as the original firmware
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20:44:05^Migs^and I'm a little hesitant to try loading Rockbox until I know what I'm doing a little better...maybe I need to get a second one to just dink around with
20:44:59evilnick^Migs^: I would suggest that you play around with it and see what it can do in both firmwares. I'd be shocked if she understood how powerful Rockbox is and *still* preferred the OF.
20:45:48^Migs^the main reason I'd want to load Rockbox is for the MP3 bookmarking functionality. She'll be using it for her audiobooks.
20:46:05^Migs^everything else, I doubt she'll have much interest in. Maybe a few of the games.
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20:47:37evilnickWith the Sansa E2x0 series you can use the micro SDHC cards (up to 16GB [I think that 32GB have been announced but aren't available yet]) but the OF is limited to the microSD versions.
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20:50:31_Auron_except for v2 OF
20:51:13evilnickThat is a very good point. ^Migs^, do you know what version of the OF it's running?
20:54:11^Migs^latest one...I just updated it
20:54:26_Auron_then you have a v2, which rockbox doesn't support yet
20:54:30evilnickBad news, that's a v2 Sansa and so it isn't supported
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20:57:38^Migs^good thing I asked...I had no clue
20:58:05^Migs^<−−- noob
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21:05:31adamgoldingis there any actual way to rate files on the rockbox portable and get those ratings onto the PC somehow? I have searched many times for such a method but have come up empty :-(
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21:10:13PaulJamadamgolding: the rating function is availabe in the WPS context menu when the database is initialized and "gather runtime data" is enabled. you can get the ratings on the PC by exporting the database changelog, but you'll have to find a way to "extract" the ratings from the generated database_changelog.txt file.
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21:11:30adamgoldingPaulJam yeah i meant, an existing method for the extraction
21:11:51adamgoldingi'm very surprised if no program has tried to extract the rockbox ratings, but i can't seem to find any
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21:27:05e280_ownerJust upgraded my sansa e280 to rockbox 3.1. Problem is there is no .rockbox/rockbox.e200 file on the e280, and I didn't find one in the file, nor did the sansapatcher install it. Any clues?
21:27:18e280_ownerTherefore my e280 won't boot
21:29:13 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
21:31:38gevaertse280_owner: what version were you running previously?
21:31:52e280_ownerrockbox 3.0 stable release
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21:32:51e280_ownerI uninstalled 3.0 first before attempting 3.1
21:32:57e280_owneralso I'm on OSX
21:33:17gevaertsAnyway there is no rockbox.e200 file. It's called rockbox.mi4
21:33:27gevaertsDid you use rbutil?
21:33:37e280_ownerok well thats on there - the mi4 file
21:33:57e280_ownerwell I tried rbutil at first, but it didn't work
21:34:06e280_ownerso I tried manual after that
21:34:24e280_ownerhere is the specific error - (it will take me a while to type it)
21:35:11e280_ownerRockbox boot loader 5.0
21:35:59e280_ownerwoops sorry let me restart
21:36:14e280_ownerRockbox boot loader
21:36:25e280_ownerVersion: 5.0
21:36:39e280_ownerSandisk Sansa e200
21:37:37e280_ownerPartition 0: 0x0B 7649 MB
21:37:57e280_ownerPartition 1: 0x84 20 MB
21:38:13e280_ownerLoading Rockbox...
21:38:47e280_ownerCan't load rockbox.mi4:
21:39:00e280_ownerFile not found
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21:39:17LambdaCalculus37e280_owner: Next time, use a pastebin to post that many lines of information. Please do not flood the channel like that.
21:39:18e280_ownerCan't load rockbox.e200:
21:39:23e280_ownerFile not found
21:39:59gevaertsOK. Are you sure .rockbox/rockbox.mi4 is definitely there? I seem to remember issues about Mac OSX not unzipping the directory with the correct name
21:40:58e280_ownerdrwxrwxr-x 21 john admin 714 Jan 30 14:12 .rockbox
21:41:22e280_owner-rw-rw-r−− 1 john admin 583680 Dec 23 15:51 rockbox.mi4
21:41:39e280_ownerrockbox.mi4 located in ./rockbox
21:41:51e280_ownersorry ./.rockbox
21:42:33gevaertshm. that should be ok...
21:42:57e280_owneryes I know.. I could boot ubuntu on a CD & try to install it using that
21:43:35e280_ownerI have a Windows partition, but unfortunately the rbutil cannot find the sansa (a known bug)
21:43:51gevaertsDoes the original firmware work properly?
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21:45:09gevaertsCan you try checking the filesystem for errors?
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21:48:44e280_ownerno good
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21:49:10e280_ownerI'll boot ubuntu from a cd & try everything from scratch with it
21:49:33evilnicke280_owner: "I have a Windows partition, but unfortunately the rbutil cannot find the sansa (a known bug)" - really?
21:50:21e280_ownerit says e250, but it seems to also affect mine
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21:51:38e280_ownerlet me try ubuntu
21:51:46evilnickAh, okay. Try selecting it manually under windows
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22:13:03superdumpi am from ffmpeg
22:13:23bertrikhi superdump
22:13:36superdumpi'm wondering why you've optimised our flac decoder and not contributed your efforts back to us
22:14:10Bagderthat's probably not the only optimization we've done either...
22:14:46superdumpthat only makes things worse...
22:15:25Bagderbut I don't know what the authors of that have done or not in regards to feeding the fixes back "upstream"
22:16:29Bagderbut of course, you're also free to "suck them" back
22:16:38Bagdernot the same thing, I know
22:18:05linuxstbsuperdump: It's a two-way thing - ffmpeg also took Rockbox's APE decoder, and no patches were offered back to us...
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22:18:36e280_ownermanual install under windows xp worked
22:19:05e280_ownerthanks gevaerts and evilnick for your help
22:19:08evilnicke280_owner: Yay!
22:19:23gevaertsThere must be something strange going on... Glad you've got it working though
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22:19:34linuxstbsuperdump: Also, we make lots of changes to ffmpeg codecs to fit them into Rockbox. Creating patches for ffmpeg with optimisations would of course be good, but I would imagine the people that have done the work for Rockbox don't feel motivated to do it again for ffmpeg...
22:20:09e280_ownercan't explain it except that I had to install 3.0 under windows because osx install had a problem then too
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22:21:28e280_ownercurrent version is r19569-081223 on my e280
22:22:00superdumplinuxstb: would some of those changes produce performance decreases on non-embedded devices?
22:22:14gevaertsThat's definitely 3.1. We forgot to put in the correct version number unfortunately
22:22:33*Bagder accepts the blame for that...
22:22:43e280_ownerthanks for your help & thanks to all the rockbox developers for all the time they spend making rockbox better !! You guys rock.
22:22:51*Bagder puts on the funny hat and stands in the corner
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22:27:27linuxstbsuperdump: No, I don't think so, but then again, I don't think many of the people here have expertise on optimising for CPUs like x86.
22:27:50superdumpwe have arm optimisations and an arm ASM guru over at ffmpeg :)
22:28:17Bagderand we optimized that ... .-)
22:28:18superdumpiirc ipods use arm and so do other such devices
22:28:31amiconnA (very) few optimisations are generic, i.e. C
22:29:05amiconnMany otpimisations are target specific, i.e. mostly ARM as far as software codecs are concerned
22:29:19amiconnARM v4, v5 and v6, and some coldfire v2 targets
22:29:20linuxstbsuperdump: Most of our devices use ARM (v4, v5 or v6). The other common CPU is Coldfire (m68k based)
22:29:41superdumpi'm sure all would be welcome if the code is clean
22:30:50superdumpwell, if it fits into our code base of course
22:31:13amiconnIt probably would, but it requires some work by someone knowing the ffmpeg internals
22:31:35Bagdersuperdump: as linuxstb said, it does take work to extract the code from our codecs to re-apply to your code, and quite possibly people in rockbox haven't had the motivation enough
22:31:42amiconnThe #ifdefs selecting the various optimisations check the rockbox specific macros of course
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23:08:43bertrikhi Wiredbomb0
23:08:52Wiredbomb0How is everyone?
23:10:23PSPdemongood good
23:11:01Wiredbomb0I was wondering if I could ask a question?
23:11:26bertrikyes, please do not hesitate to ask it
23:12:26Wiredbomb0I was wondering if rockbox was looking into hacking the firmware for the 6G iPod Classic 120gb.
23:12:35 Quit tvelocity[away] (Network is unreachable)
23:12:47Wiredbomb0I've read on this other site that they were talking about it, and I just wanted to know if they were actually looking into the situation
23:13:09Wiredbomb0and I do know the Apple has since encrypted the firmware
23:13:33Bagderthere's nobody really working on that, no
23:14:44Wiredbomb0I was going to look into it, but I do not know how
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23:16:45linuxstbWiredbomb0: It's a tough nut to crack. Apple seem to have done a decent job encrypting the firmware to prevent third-party replacements, and no-one has found a way around that yet.
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23:18:30Wiredbomb0If I was to try and hack it, where would I begin?
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23:19:51bertrikI think by seeing if apple provides firmware updates for the ipod and trying to make sense of the firmware update file
23:19:55 Quit pixelma (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20:22Wiredbomb0Where could I find the latest iPod Classic 6G update?
23:20:22Wiredbomb0Off the apple website?
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23:21:20Bagderwe're not the ones with ipod 6th gen...
23:21:22bertrikWiredbomb0, I have no idea to be honest, I don't have an ipod myself
23:21:52Wiredbomb0Oh, okay then
23:22:04linuxstbWiredbomb0: This is a nice front-end to Apple's website -
23:22:48linuxstbThose updates are encrypted - that's the problem...
23:23:30Wiredbomb0That site hasn't got a 6G
23:23:42Wiredbomb0I got my 6G for christmas that's why I got a 6G
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23:23:47bertriklinuxstb, we don't know anything about the encryption at all? like block size, key size, algorithm family?
23:23:47linuxstb"Classic" = 6G
23:24:32linuxstbbertrik: Nope. We know what Apple used in their previous firmwares (to encrypt the flash-ROM image which is part of the firmware image), but I don't think anyone has any hard facts about the newer ipods.
23:24:46linuxstb(code to encrypt/decrypt that is in ipodpatcher)
23:25:36Wiredbomb0Couldn't we like hex-edit the iPod Patcher and find out how it works?
23:25:46linuxstbYou can read the C source code...
23:26:05linuxstbAssuming "iPod Patcher" is ipodpatcher.
23:26:44Wiredbomb0Was never good a C
23:26:52*bertrik vaguely remembers seeing pictures of someone who desoldered a flash chip from an ipod and soldered wires to it
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23:27:13Bagdera second gen nano I believe
23:27:29linuxstbWiredbomb0: ipodpatcher is a Rockbox utility (I wrote it) to manipulate the firmware partition on the older ipods - it's main use is to inject the Rockbox bootloader into it. It won't work on the newer ipods.
23:27:39Bagderbertrik: but all that achived was an encrypted dump from a flash...
23:28:36Wiredbomb0But (just checking if my logic is right), couldn't you overwrite the code that the iPod runs to get from Boot Disk mode to like Play mode?
23:29:11linuxstbThe problem is that that code is encrypted - and we don't know how to encrypt our own code to replace what's there. So the ipod wouldn't load it.
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23:30:03casainhohello :-)
23:30:05bertrikBagder, ok, nice try though
23:30:43casainhoI am getting this error: debug_menu.c:(.text+0xf9c): undefined reference to `card_get_info_target'
23:31:28casainhohowever I am not seeing any reference to card_get_info_target on debug_menu.c ??
23:32:02casainhowhat can be the problem?
23:32:56linuxstbcasainho: Try searching the firmware/ code for "card_get_info_target". Perhaps it's a macro. e.g. "grep -r card_get_info_target firmware | grep -v svn"
23:34:39bertrikindeed, hotswap.h defines it
23:35:06casainhoyes, linuxstb were right :-) −− it's equal to "card_get_info"
23:35:42*linuxstb thought macros should be upper-case...
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23:37:07Wiredbomb0Hey again guys
23:38:04Wiredbomb0I've got the Apple Device Software Update File, does that mean anything?
23:39:26casainhoon this line: int sd_write_sectors(IF_MV2(int drive,) unsigned long start, int count, const void* buf)
23:39:53casainhoI am getting this warning: warning: initialization discards qualifiers from pointer target type
23:40:02casainhois there a way to not have that wrning?
23:40:50rasherWiredbomb0: It means you downloaded a file off the internet.
23:41:08bertrikthe warning is because of the const in the const void*
23:41:45Wiredbomb0rasher, I'm afraid not, I got this file through iTunes
23:41:52Wiredbomb0When I updated my 6G iPod
23:42:04rasherWiredbomb0: And I suppose it just appeared out of nowhere?
23:42:23casainhobertrik: so, should I remove the "const" ?
23:43:00Wiredbomb0I'm afraid not
23:43:12Wiredbomb0Where it was when I found, it's no longer there now
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23:45:43linuxstbWiredbomb0: What's the filenname?
23:45:54bertrikcasainho, I think the prototype of the function should stay the same as in the header file. Is the warning really on that line or is it on a cast of const void* buf?
23:46:16linuxstbWhich is the file from the site I linked you to earlier.
23:46:52Wiredbomb0I didn't see any files
23:46:56Wiredbomb0for my iPod
23:47:15Wiredbomb0All the files on that site were for 5.5g or before
23:47:18linuxstbYour ipod is the Classic 2G.
23:47:24Wiredbomb0No it's not
23:47:32linuxstbOK, it's not...
23:47:33Wiredbomb0It's the iPod Classic 6G 120gb
23:47:55linuxstbHumour me, and select the Classic 2G download from that site.
23:48:38Wiredbomb0I'm afraid I've lost the link, would you please send it again?
23:49:05linuxstbThis channel is also logged -
23:49:23casainhobertrik: sorry, I am not seeing that warning again... but later on code I do: uint8_t *addr_buf = buf;
23:49:50Wiredbomb0What the heck?
23:50:08Wiredbomb0How the hell does that work?
23:50:24linuxstbHow the hell does what work?
23:51:09Wiredbomb0That makes no sence
23:52:07linuxstbIt makes perfect sense. The 6G is the Classic. The first Classics were 80GB/160GB, the second Classics are 120GB. You have a second generation Classic.
23:52:16Wiredbomb0How does the Classic iPod differ from the Nano or Video?
23:52:23linuxstbIn every way possible.
23:52:33linuxstbNew hardware, new software.
23:52:49linuxstbHence the reason Rockbox doesn't work on them.
23:53:06Wiredbomb0When was the first Classic iPod released?
23:53:40linuxstbSeptember 2007 I think.
23:54:20Wiredbomb0So basically, the iPod_33.2.0.1.ipsw is useless in trying to hack the iPod?
23:55:01linuxstbNo, that's what you need to hack in order to hack your ipod. Or find another way to run your own code - e.g. exploit bugs in the Apple firmware such as buffer overflows.
23:55:54Wiredbomb0Okay, so basically iPod_33.2.0.1.ipsw is the building blocks on hacking the iPod, right?
23:58:00 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection)

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