#rockbox 2009-02-02

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#rockbox log for 2009-02-02

00:01:05	Bagder	yeah, the only fs dump I have for an R is from the devboard and that's some kind of hybrid R so I can't really say that's safe
00:02:10	Legomaniac	do you know of someone who might have that dump file or of an alternative method that might get it to work if all of the recovery mode tactics have failed?
00:03:02	Bagder	sorry, I can't say I do
00:04:20		Quit Jonny_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]")
00:04:30	Legomaniac	you were saying earlier that e200tool could rescue me in manufacturer mode, how so?
00:05:36	Bagder	well, using the normal go into recovery mode and then store a new bootloader and then use the format trick, I would assume
00:05:46	mcuelenaere	Bagder: have you already looked at implementing checkwps into tools/configure or should I give it a try?
00:06:04		Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:06:07	Bagder	... uh, no that's still pending
00:08:11		Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:08:27	n1s	we could just add it to the list of tools so that it gets built for each build, a small waste but also quite simple
00:08:53	Legomaniac	Bagder: I have already tried sansa.fmt, firmware.mi4 (and it's older named equiv.) and the bootloader file off of daniel's site in recovery mode, and none of those fixes have worked, but I didn't use e200tool in the process
00:08:59	Bagder	n1s: it would quite suffice, since right now those tools are not cleared on all rebuilds
00:09:39	Bagder	Legomaniac: just for the record, I am daniel
00:10:03	Legomaniac	oh, well thanks you greatly for all of your resources
00:10:10	Bagder	n1s: argh, would NOT suffice
00:10:49	n1s	Bagder: don't they rebuild if their dependencies change?
00:11:03	BigBambi	bertrik (for the logs): Looks very nice! A bit patchy, but there is definately info there :)
00:11:10	Bagder	n1s: they do...
00:11:27	Bagder	but that would make yellows for example only appear once
00:11:38	n1s	ah, right
00:12:17	Bagder	hm, how is checkwps built right now?
00:13:44	mcuelenaere	The buildall.sh script gets run
00:13:52	mcuelenaere	which calls Makefile with different arguments
00:13:55	Bagder	right, I just found it
00:14:28	mcuelenaere	I would think something like tools/configure generating a Makefile which calls buildall.sh (and cleanall.sh upon clean)
00:14:41	Bagder	yes, I think so too
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00:18:04	Legomaniac	Bagder: is there a way I can restore the bootloader and the firmware using e200tool without having to go into recovery mode?
00:18:46	Bagder	Legomaniac: no, as the recovery mode is the only thing that can write the bootloader etc to the hidden partition
00:19:14	Bagder	that's why from manufacture mode the first thing to do is to get recovery mode working
00:20:05	Legomaniac	what about e2tplus?
00:20:24	Bagder	what's that?
00:20:29		Quit lymeca (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:20:58	Legomaniac	e2tplus is nothing but e200tool with ability to read from and write to NAND memory (daughter board).
00:21:17	Legomaniac	copied from the thread I have found to be the most promising
00:21:51	Bagder	if they modified e200tool without passing the code back to us, I would not trust it
00:21:55	Bagder	but that's me
00:24:03		Quit ender` (" We are surprised at our own versatility in being able to fail in so many different ways. -- Samuel McChord Crothers")
00:24:43	Legomaniac	alright, I will take your word on not trusting their code, but whenever I paste the firmware.mi4 file, the bootloader file (in .btl formate) and the sansa.fmt file onto the recovery mode partition upon reboot I just get the error "load main image failed" "enter recovery mode"
00:25:36	Bagder	the standard R recovery mode cannot write the bootloader
00:26:02	Bagder	so if that is damaged, you need to run the recovery mode using a "vanilla" bootloader
00:26:11		Join casainho [0] (n=chatzill@87-196-169-52.net.novis.pt)
00:26:37	casainho	hello :-)
00:27:02	casainho	I am having a probelm on FAT32 driver...
00:27:21	casainho	can someone please look at this piece of code and explanation of my problem? : http://pastebin.com/m2c77319d
00:28:03		Nick JdGordon\|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:28:19	mcuelenaere	casainho: what does this mean? 'When i more or less higher than 200'
00:28:33	Bagder	(wrote the exact same question, but was too slow)
00:28:41	mcuelenaere	:)
00:29:36	Legomaniac	Bagder: is there a guide somewhere that can explain how to use a "vanilla" bootloader
00:29:37	Legomaniac	?
00:29:38	casainho	i is one variable...
00:29:58	casainho	on this loop: for (i=0; (i < sectorcount) && (sector > -1); i++ ) {
00:30:14	mcuelenaere	ah
00:30:41	casainho	I am trying to run the code step by step and did happens that when "i" was about higher then 200, the problem did happen :-(
00:30:55	Bagder	Legomaniac: I don't know. You can run it by entering manufacture mode and then load that bootloader to get to recovery mode
00:31:25	mcuelenaere	casainho: as I think there's probably nothing wrong with the FAT driver, are you sure your read_sectors()/write_sectors() implementation does nothing wrong?
00:31:51	mcuelenaere	(and as you run code step by step, can't you see where it 'crashes'?)
00:32:40	Legomaniac	Bagder: will e200tool know where to place the .btl bootloader file? Do I have to place it at a specific sector?
00:33:30	casainho	mcuelenaere: okok, I will try... but I just see it "crashing"... I am right now trying to take a sreenshot before adn after to show you
00:33:38	Bagder	Legomaniac: e200tool doesn't place it at all. e200tool helps you reach recovery mode, and then you copy the bootloader to the recovery partition
00:34:06	Bagder	Legomaniac: but since that is the vanilla bootloader, you need to then rename the bootloader to .rom to make it "look" like a vanilla one to the recovery mode
00:34:20	Bagder	hm, I express myself a bit confusing
00:34:29	casainho	oh, I saw now, after "last_sector" is higher than 255!!!
00:34:42	Legomaniac	yeah, sorry I am not following you so well
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00:35:01	mcuelenaere	casainho: do you have a recent diff somewhere?
00:35:06	Bagder	Legomaniac: the key steps are 1) manufature mode 2) load the vanilla bootloader
00:35:23	Bagder	Legomaniac: then you mount the 16MB recovery file system
00:35:50	Bagder	Legomaniac: there you copy the .btl bootloader, but you need to rename it to the vanilla bootloader name which ends with .rom
00:36:17	casainho	mcuelenaere: diff of what? of all my port code?
00:36:24	mcuelenaere	yes
00:36:37	mcuelenaere	both the one in the patch tracker and on code.google seems out of date
00:37:07	Legomaniac	Bagder: so how do I perform step 2?
00:37:20	Bagder	Legomaniac: using e200tool
00:38:06	casainho	I will upload one right now!
00:38:26	Bagder	Legomaniac: "e200tool recover <bootloader_file>" is the command
00:38:27	Legomaniac	Bagder: I guess I was just a little confused when you said that e200tool doesn't place anything
00:38:41	Bagder	Legomaniac: e200tool just loads stuff in your device's RAM
00:38:48	Legomaniac	gotcha
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00:41:17	casainho	mcuelenaere: here is the patch:: http://rockboxplayer.googlecode.com/svn-history/r202/trunk/rockbox_patch/20090201-rockbox_player_patch-r19899
00:41:58	casainho	Bagder: can you guess why that piece of code hangs when variable "i" pass the value 255?
00:42:19	casainho	that piece of code is the original from FAT driver...
00:42:30	Legomaniac	Bagder: where could I attain a copy of the vanilla bootloader so I can use e200tool to load it?
00:42:32	kugel	casainho: do you setup the RAM?
00:42:39	kugel	or cpu clocks
00:42:50	kugel	I don't see any system_init() in your bootloader
00:43:12	Bagder	Legomaniac: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/mi4.html lists a few
00:43:20	mcuelenaere	isn't that already setup by the bootloader/crt0.S?
00:43:21	Bagder	"BL file"
00:43:45	Bagder	casainho: can't you just single-step until it hangs?
00:44:02	casainho	kugel: the SD RAM and CPU clocks are configured on OpenOCD scritps, because I am debugging the code... and yes, it is on crt0.S file
00:44:02	Bagder	b [point] if (i == 255)
00:44:58	casainho	Bagder: is that a command to GDB? because I am using Eclipse... but I will try to use that command on Eclipse Debug shell...
00:45:18	Bagder	yes, that's a conditional breakpoint in gdb speak
00:45:56	mcuelenaere	casainho: that isn't really how other targets do this (they do this in system_init() ). IMHO crt0.S should be as clean as possible
00:47:02	Bagder	casainho: but the logic at line 85+86 is probably what is triggered at that point so you could focus there
00:47:02	casainho	mcuelenaere: in fact, it does on a C function called soon as possible on C Startup...
00:47:23	mcuelenaere	hmm yes I just saw it now
00:47:25		Quit n1s ()
00:47:36	mcuelenaere	well anyway, it's just my opinion; not a rule or so :)
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00:48:57	casainho	Bagder: nice ;-) −− I will put a break point there and see...
00:49:28	casainho	mcuelenaere: well, later I can clean the code :-) −− I am focus now to put bootloader working :-)
00:49:54	*	Bagder runs off to try his bed for a few hours
00:49:55	Legomaniac	Bagder: I think I am misunderstanding you, I previously got my firmware and bootloader file from the site you just linked me to, but I do not see anything there referencing or named "vanilla"
00:50:16	Bagder	Legomaniac: "vanilla" as in the regular e200, the non-R ones
00:50:34	Bagder	night
00:50:40	Legomaniac	oh... thank you!
00:51:02	casainho	good night :-)
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00:55:26	casainho	mcuelenaere: did you try the patch?
00:55:38	casainho	I just saw that it hangs on my driver: int sd_read_sectors(IF_MV2(int drive,) unsigned long start, int count, void* buf)
00:56:09	mcuelenaere	how do you mean 'did you try the patch' ?
00:56:16	mcuelenaere	I don't have the target??
00:56:20	mcuelenaere	s/??/../
00:56:23	casainho	well, if you did something with the patch...
00:56:28	mcuelenaere	no, not really
00:56:37	casainho	mcuelenaere: ok, I understand.. but since you asked for it...
00:57:04	mcuelenaere	well I looked shortly at it, but didn't really see anything suspicous
00:57:10	mcuelenaere	suspicious*
00:57:18	mcuelenaere	have you found where exactly it crashes?
01:00
01:01:36	casainho	hmmm, it's on my drivers, on that sd_read_sectors... however I am tryning to understand... because it crashes just when it is called on that time... −− okok, I will report later :-)
01:05:17	casainho	eheh :-)
01:05:18	casainho	int sd_read_sectors(IF_MV2(int drive,) unsigned long start, int count, void* buf)
01:05:31	casainho	"count" must be static, I think
01:06:11	casainho	or no? - can the "count" lost it value if I call another function inside that one?
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01:10:07	mcuelenaere	how could you define 'count' static in a function call?
01:11:04	mcuelenaere	@casainho
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01:12:58	casainho	mcuelenaere: well, I think "count" goes to 0 after another function is called inside that one...
01:13:10	mcuelenaere	Bagder (logs): does this look like a clean enough implementation? http://pastebin.com/m6f7c2e50
01:13:43	mcuelenaere	casainho: yes, that's what the while(count−−) does
01:13:48	mcuelenaere	isn't this code yours?
01:14:51	casainho	I yes, that's my code, maybe it's buggy :-) no?
01:15:20	mcuelenaere	could be
01:15:31	mcuelenaere	so the device crashes upon entering sd_read_sectors()?
01:18:36	casainho	yes, it was hanging there.. now I changed the code and looks like it is hanging later...
01:18:41	casainho	I will discover...
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01:29:10	casainho	mcuelenaere: oh no - the system crashes on that loop "while(count−−)"
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01:29:33	mcuelenaere	casainho: how so? does it go into an infinte loop?
01:29:39	mcuelenaere	infinite*
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01:36:41	fett	Hi all
01:37:28	casainho	mcuelenaere: I am truyngin to understand... I coundln't find yet...
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01:40:18	fett	I have a Sansa e260 and I use rockbox.. it is very cool... Also I have Griffin dock station with power in and audio out. When I supply power my Sansa use default firware instead of rockbox. Is there a way to enable rockbox?
01:42:57	*	mcuelenaere is off to bed
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03:59:52	asdf_	woooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!
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04:00:28	krazykit	asdf_, Guest10412, this is an on-topic rockbox support/development channel. please keep it on-topic
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04:48:22	*	linuxstb wonders about the changes to checkwps
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04:54:03	not-Andy	Hello! I was just wondering whether or not I can install (even if it doesn't work) RockBox in hardware for which it was definitely NOT intended. If so, how do I get it to install in the first place? Thanks in advance!
04:54:30	krazykit	not-Andy, you'd have to port rockbox to that hardware
04:54:41	scorche	Rockbox needs to be specially ported to each individual device
04:56:27	not-Andy	Okay then. I'll see what I can do... thanks again!
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05:47:24	JC	My Sansa model says E250R and has a Rhapsody logo on its back, but, the USB modes are MSC and MTP. So should I use E250's firmware or E250R's firmware?
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05:52:03	Eggbertx	can someone help me with making custom plugins?
05:52:47	JdGordon	got a specific question?
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09:26:36	BigBambi	The H10 uses the OF for USB right? (I'm sure it does, just doublin checking)
09:27:01	B4gder	yes
09:38:02	BigBambi	cheers
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09:59:13	bluefoxx	how far away are we from a working port of rockbox for the v2 e200 series?
09:59:35	B4gder	it is partially working
09:59:50	bluefoxx	meaning?
10:00
10:00:12	B4gder	mean, parts of it works!
10:00:16	B4gder	meaning even
10:00:40	bluefoxx	it would be nice to have even just basic mp3 audioplayback and microsd connectivity working, as i can't find a new v1 e200
10:00:45	bluefoxx	mine just broke yet again
10:01:14	B4gder	I think there are a few others that would also consider that nice
10:01:19	bluefoxx	so if i wind up just buying a new mp3 player, i want a rockbox-able one
10:02:09	bluefoxx	i've become rather fond of the mechanical style scroll wheel
10:02:23	bluefoxx	and i would have to have one capable of microsdHC cards
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10:04:56	Zagor	doesn't froobi ship to canada?
10:08:02	bluefoxx	bloody hell i hate electronics sometime
10:08:03	bluefoxx	s
10:09:00	bluefoxx	my old e270 had the screen go bad, after someone ran into me and the mp3 player went flying and hit the pavement, and now the new one i got to swap the chips out with has a busted headphone jack
10:09:38	Zagor	the headphone jack is a common flaw with the e200
10:09:43	bluefoxx	replacing it or soldering it back down would be a breeze, i do SM soldering a fair bit, but the traces for the left channel was ripped right off
10:09:53	bluefoxx	the actual jack has no damage
10:09:55	bluefoxx	its the PCB
10:10:26	bluefoxx	if anyone has a v1 e200 they feel like shipping to a random person in vancouver for free...
10:10:47	JdGordon	LinusN: hey, just wondering if you've had a chance to look at the hwcodec problem with my patch?
10:10:56	bluefoxx	this wouldn't be so bad if the LCD was socketed like on some of the ipods
10:11:06	bluefoxx	than i could just swap those, and the jacks
10:11:12	Zagor	bluefoxx: you can't glue the jack in place and add wires for the ripped traces?
10:11:26	bluefoxx	since the jack mechanism on my old one is screwed up
10:11:32	bluefoxx	Zagor: not really
10:12:08	bluefoxx	unless it connects to one of the capacators near it, i can't do anything
10:13:44	bluefoxx	unless i get this fixed, i'm stuck rigging up a audio out cable to plug into the bottem[far less than ideal a solution] or using an ancient minidisk player[that or going back the the screenless one, also less than ideal, voice menues are tedius]
10:24:12		Quit fragilematter ("Lost terminal")
10:29:13	JdGordon	anyone using the "official" vmware build environment?
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10:51:55	JdGordon	noone has had any problems with voice on archos since 3.1 yeah? (FS #9753)
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10:58:41	pixelma	in general no, but I bet that the available voice is too big (especially with default settings) on the recorders (as domonoly already says)
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10:59:17	JdGordon	so close it as not really a biug?
10:59:20	JdGordon	-i
11:00
11:00:06	pixelma	well it's not a bug with the voice system but with 3.1 - we should get someone to putup a smaller voice file
11:00:09	domonoky	JdGordon: this bug is real.
11:01:33	JdGordon	hey domonoky, you see my email?
11:01:52	domonoky	JdGordon: the mail about you mac ?
11:01:57	JdGordon	yeah
11:02:05	domonoky	jup :-)
11:02:32	JdGordon	got it all going again?
11:02:59	domonoky	nope, didnt find time for it. Will do it later.
11:03:10	JdGordon	ok
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11:19:36	LinusN	JdGordon: no i haven't had time to look at it, sorry
11:20:14	JdGordon	ok
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12:46:10	mcuelenaere	linuxstb: regarding the checkwps changes: http://pastebin.com/m6f7c2e50
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12:48:03	B4gder	another approach would be to simple build a checkwps for the target you've picked, in the normal build
12:48:08	linuxstb	mcuelenaere: Why call buildall.sh? You could just pass...
12:48:12	linuxstb	(what B4gder said...)
12:48:35	B4gder	that way people will also notice breakage on their own
12:49:12	mcuelenaere	so you mean adding it to the normal build?
12:49:15	B4gder	yes
12:49:28	B4gder	possibly the cygwin people won't like it
12:49:30	mcuelenaere	hmm yes, that's perhaps even better
12:50:19	B4gder	when we could add a special target that builds them all
12:50:23	B4gder	s/when/then
12:51:00	linuxstb	Do we need that special target? That's what the buildall.sh script is for.
12:51:09	B4gder	true
12:51:27	B4gder	we probably don't need it
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12:54:31	linuxstb	mcuelenaere: BTW, regarding your changes to buildall.sh/cleanall.sh, wouldn't a "cd `dirname $0`" at the start of the script have done the same thing?
12:54:42	linuxstb	(if it's needed at all)
12:55:21	mcuelenaere	hmm when the scripts end, is then in `dirname $0` or does the shell ignore that?
12:55:25	mcuelenaere	is it*
12:55:56	linuxstb	cd is just local to that script.
12:56:11	linuxstb	Or rather, local to that shell invocation.
12:56:14	mcuelenaere	and doing cd `dirname $0` won't place the output files in the correct dir, you'll still need to move them to the current directory
12:56:31	mcuelenaere	and cleanall should be removing them from the current directory
12:58:26	linuxstb	Why is that needed? The other tools are all build in-place.
12:58:43	linuxstb	s/build/built/
12:59:05	B4gder	for the build system to do a proper check we want the output to get wiped
12:59:23	B4gder	and yeah, the other tools aren't checked "properly"
12:59:41	mcuelenaere	yes, but that was for that (not to be used) pastebin change
12:59:46	mcuelenaere	@linuxstb
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13:00:13	linuxstb	Then passing an "OUTPUTDIR" var to the Makefile would seem nicer.
13:00:40	mcuelenaere	and cleanall.sh ?
13:00:53	mcuelenaere	that doesn't invocate the Makefile (even though it could, it has a 'clean' target)
13:02:47	linuxstb	Yes, I think it should do make clean - the Makefile adds $(EXT) to the filename (for win32)
13:03:07	linuxstb	s/it/cleanall.sh/
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16:46:28	kadoban	in function arguments, is "struct viewport list_parent[NB_SCREENS]" the same as "struct viewport * list_parent"? I don't recall seeing that before, and I can't find it in my C references...
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16:48:48	mcuelenaere	kadoban: it essentially boils down to the same, yes; but the first one can have sizeof() working on list_parent
16:49:12	kadoban	mcuelenaere: ohh okay, thanks.
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17:50:47	amiconn	mcuelenaere, kadoban: Those variants are not the same. The struct is passed verbatim in the first case (i.e. copied), not referenced.
17:51:32	mcuelenaere	hmm true
17:51:35	amiconn	Hmm, I see it's an array of structs.... so it should be referenced
17:51:53	amiconn	This is a rather confusing detail in C
17:52:33	mcuelenaere	and a single array passed as an argument, is that a reference or is it put on the stack?
17:54:33	kadoban	that's really confusing
17:54:49	kadoban	i'll have to play with that...i haven't really seen it before at all
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18:22:16	Eufouria	Hi, i'm trying to sign into the rockbox vmware player but my password field won't take any input, anyone know whats going on?
18:22:28	kadoban	Eufouria: does it otherwise accept input?
18:22:35	Eufouria	in the user field
18:22:42	Eufouria	or login field
18:22:55	Eufouria	and i can type during the bios start up
18:23:05	Unhelpful	sounds like "not echoing password for security" to me.
18:23:14	Unhelpful	but i've not used our vmware image
18:23:43	GodEater	nor me for ages
18:23:50	LambdaCalculus37	Me neither.
18:23:50	GodEater	I don't know what display manager it uses
18:24:04	LambdaCalculus37	All I know is that it's Debian-based; that's it.
18:24:14	kadoban	should be gnome then i guess?
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18:24:35	GodEater	I doubt it
18:24:39	GodEater	that would make the image enormous
18:24:50	kadoban	oh, right...
18:25:11	GodEater	but since I've not used it - I couldn't swear to it ;)
18:25:14	*	Unhelpful is shocked that it would be using X at all
18:26:06	Eufouria	Damn...
18:26:47	kadoban	Eufouria: i assume if you just hit enter that that doesn't work?
18:26:48	scorche\|sh	fluxbox
18:27:05	scorche\|sh	Unhelpful: it makes it easier on people...
18:27:06	Eufouria	it says Login Incorrect
18:28:56	scorche\|sh	just so you know, the password field does take whatever you put intpo it...it just doesnt show it for security purposes as Unhelpful mentioned
18:29:08	scorche\|sh	just type the correct password and it will work fine..
18:29:17	Eufouria	Hah
18:29:20	Eufouria	thanks
18:29:39	Eufouria	got it. Sorry about that, not the most intuitive though
18:31:47	amiconn	There are actually two vmware images I know of
18:31:59	amiconn	One uses fluxbox, the other is text-mode only
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19:26:09	BigBambi	bertrik: Nice start on RDS - I could see something start to take shape that made sense :)
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19:29:43	bertrik	BigBambi, yeah, the patch is full of bugs/missing features, but at least we know now that it is possible in principle
19:30:43	bertrik	I won't work on it though because I don't have a beast myself
19:31:20	bertrik	Maybe this could be a nice GSoC project, although the audience for this feature in rockbox is a bit limited
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19:33:05	BigBambi	bertrik: I don't know, how complicated is RDS?
19:33:30	BigBambi	I have the feeling it might suffer from not being a full summers work as well as being of limited appeal
19:36:02	BigBambi	Still, it'll be yet another Rockbox only feature (vs OF) :)
19:36:24	amiconn	I don't think it's a full summer's work
19:36:59	BigBambi	No, I was just going by how quickly bertrikgot it this far
19:37:05	amiconn	Some RDS features can't be implemented anyway (e.g. automatic AF - it would need dual tuners)
19:37:47	BigBambi	indeed
19:37:54	bertrik	BigBambi, RDS is not that complicated actually, you receive 104 bits of data of which 4 x 16 bits remain after error detection, the first 22 bits of this are the same for all RDS frames and is a kind of header that tells you how to interpret the rest of the frame
19:38:46	BigBambi	It sounds like the worst thing will be agreeing on how to implement it in Rockbox :)
19:39:00	BigBambi	Could be part of a W FM S
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19:42:46	gevaerts	RDS could be useful to sync the RTC
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19:43:15	amiconn	Indeed. Especially on the beast with its nasty battery swtich
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19:45:06	BigBambi	yes, I often lose time on the beast
19:45:26	gevaerts	We could use the station identification from RDS as well to help with presets. Not sure if it
19:45:31	gevaerts	s worth the effort though
19:45:43	*	gevaerts can lose time perfectly well without the beast :)
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19:46:19	BigBambi	Not sure - displaying it (or the option to hence a WFMS) would be nice
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19:48:20	gevaerts	Well yes. Showing the RDS data is a given if we support it at all I think. I was thinking about some more involved usages like storing the station number in the preset file so you can check if you have the right station
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19:49:35	BigBambi	gevaerts: Yeah, I didn't mean it would be decoded but then not shown, I meant that I'd be very happy with just showing it :)
19:50:34	gevaerts	I'd add using it as the default station name when saving a preset to the list of must-be-done features
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19:50:49	BigBambi	Yes
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20:14:00	bertrik	I was thinking that maybe the combination of getting RDS to work and implementing a W FM S would be about enough work for a GSoC
20:15:20	bertrik	RDS could also be used for creating a meaningful file name when recording from the radio
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20:29:42	bertrik	I compiled a list of FM tuners used in rockbox targets yet the only one I could find to support RDS was the gigabeat S
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20:30:50	bertrik	The descriptions of the Samsung YP-U3 explicitly mentions RDS support but it's never been investigated as a rockbox target AFAIK
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20:52:36	casainho	hello :-)
20:53:10	casainho	please help me on this code: http://pastebin.com/m6aca3712
20:53:10	bluebrother	hello
20:53:42	casainho	I am debuging it and seeing strang things... like "count" never decrements and always being 255
20:54:13	Boulet	probably stuck at line22 :)
20:55:13	bluebrother	Can't see anything obvious problematic ... maybe let line 22 do something :)
20:55:17	casainho	and addr_buf is incrementing 0x200 at a time
20:55:24	bluebrother	(so you can watch it ;-)
20:56:01	Boulet	casainho, if addr_buf is incrementing then counter should decrement
20:56:08	Boulet	obviously :)
20:56:12	casainho	that code is working correctly if that function is called just to read one sector (count = 1)
20:56:34	bluebrother	so what's the problem then? If fails if count > 1?
20:56:42	Boulet	and what if you call it two times in a row with count = 1 ?
20:56:57	Boulet	it should not change anything anyways
20:57:30	casainho	my bootloader calls it a few times with count = 1... and it mounts the fat partition, even print the checksum of the firmware...
20:57:34		Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
20:57:57	bluebrother	well, I can't see start getting incremented in case count is greater than one. So you'd always read the same block
20:58:01	Boulet	casainho, where did you find this code, did you write it yourself ?
20:58:18	Boulet	i don't think the problem is in the code itself but more in the way you use the SD protocol
20:58:21	casainho	but when it prints on LCD "loading rockbox.xxx" it calls that function with count = 255 and crashes the system :-(
20:58:37	Boulet	maybe you want to read to many blocks ?
20:58:38	bluebrother	how exactly does it crash?
20:58:42	casainho	I write it but I used another library
20:59:21	bertrik	like bluebrother said, start should be incremented somewhere in the loop
20:59:22	Boulet	i thought the SD protocol had a command READ_MULTIPLE_BLOCKS or something ?
20:59:27	bluebrother	first, when reading 255 sectors, is buf big enough to hold all those sectors? Second, I still think you'd read the same sector 255 times.
20:59:29	Boulet	this code does not seem to be very optimized
20:59:49	bertrik	first make it work correctly, then make it work fast ... :)
21:00
21:00:02	casainho	here one image of the crashing: http://flickr.com/photos/43558168@N00/3242550052/sizes/o/
21:00:05	bluebrother	which means, in case of the bootloader, you load the first 512 bytes of the firmware, then do that again. Jump to the firmware. You have 0x200 bytes ...
21:01:07	bluebrother	increment start at the end of the while loop by one
21:01:09	casainho	Boulet: I already tried the READ_MULTIPLE_BLOCKS (I am suing SPI BUS) and it didn't work, so, I did like this as I saw on other librariies ;-)
21:01:29		Quit Self-Perfection ("Konversation terminated!")
21:01:32	casainho	bluebrother: do you see something worng?
21:01:43	bluebrother	casainho: did you do a memory dump after the loading / crash?
21:01:55		Quit nibbler__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:01:57	casainho	bluebrother: no, I didn't
21:02:17	bluebrother	casainho: well, you never increment start, so every run of the while loop uses the same value. I.e. it reads the same sector again and again.
21:02:26	bertrik	casainho, just add a start++ near the end of the loop and try again :P
21:02:42	bluebrother	I bet you'll see some pattern of 0x200 bytes in memory :)
21:02:43	casainho	bluebrother: should I expect to see addr_buf incrementing one by one value? because it is incementing by 0X200 every itme
21:03:15	bertrik	it's normal to see it increase by 0x200 for each iteration of the outer loop
21:03:17	bluebrother	casainho: you sure you see each of the for loops? I bet you only see its value before and after that loop
21:04:49	casainho	well... I had breakpoints on the first if and else of the loop, so, I think it were breaking each one time of the loop, no?
21:05:29	Boulet	casainho, look at the code, there is this for loop line 24 ..
21:05:39	bluebrother	well, then lines 24 .. 28 will increment that pointer by 0x200 bytes, won't it?
21:05:43	Boulet	addr_buf is incremented in that loop
21:06:04	bluebrother	if you break before and after those lines, well ...
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21:06:42	Boulet	casainho i doubt the code respect the SD card protocol
21:07:02	Boulet	i don't see how it is possible that it works in case of SDHC for example
21:07:25	Boulet	at least, increment start
21:07:26	bertrik	Boulet, oh why wouldn't it?
21:07:46	Boulet	increment start, that's all
21:08:12	Boulet	but also, you should use the read_multiple_blocks command and place it outside that loop
21:08:14	Boulet	will be much faster
21:08:38	casainho	bluebrother: yeah, right :-) sorry, I didn't got it before :-) 512 times, should be the 0x200
21:09:51	casainho	Boulet: ok, but first I need to get it working, and this code is scheme is working on another libraries: http://www.roland-riegel.de/sd-reader/index.html
21:11:17	casainho	bluebrother: I was mistaken
21:11:22	Boulet	casainho, i am curious, on what hardware are you developing ?
21:11:23	bluebrother	casainho: http://pastebin.com/m2a7ff0ee
21:11:25	casainho	that code works when count = 0
21:11:53	bluebrother	with count = 0 it shouldn't do anything.
21:11:58	Boulet	haha :)
21:12:05	casainho	Boulet: on Rockbox Player: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayer
21:12:09	Boulet	does it work with one ?
21:12:15	bluebrother	that while loop is always false and it will just return 0.
21:13:17	*	bluebrother wonders why the hilighting of that paste was set to diff ...
21:14:22	casainho	bluebrother: thanks :-) −− but with start++; it kind of crashes later... :-(
21:14:58	Boulet	maybe buf is invalid then...
21:14:59	bluebrother	and how does that crash look? Can you dump the memory and verify it read more than one sector correctly to RAM?
21:15:30	casainho	bluebrother: ok, my mistake, it works when count = 1 ( I were seing the value of count inside the loop, after decrementing - strange because it should decrement on the end, right?)
21:15:48	bluebrother	no.
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21:16:17	casainho	bluebrother: but the count−− is diferent from −−count, no?
21:16:23	bluebrother	that loop is while(count−−). This means that count has to be decremented, then checked.
21:16:51	kugel	no
21:17:09	bluebrother	i−− and −−i are different.
21:17:10	kugel	it's checked, then decremented, then the loop is exectured
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21:17:26	kugel	maybe you should use do {} while
21:17:28	bluebrother	i−− will return i, then decrement it. −−i will decrement i, then return the result (i.e. i-1)
21:17:58		Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
21:18:05	casainho	oh, okok :-)
21:18:17	casainho	well, the problem: count = 256 the first time
21:18:22	bluebrother	what's the advantage of using do ... while? If count = 1 the first loop will run. As expected.
21:18:32	casainho	all other times, count stays equal to 255!!!
21:18:41	kugel	casainho: why? that function should never be called with 256, right?
21:18:45	bluebrother	no. count is an unsigned int, so 0 - 1 != 255.
21:18:52	kugel	(or am I wrong?)
21:19:45	casainho	and I see addr_buf incrementing every time by 0x200, wichi is correct
21:19:51	bluebrother	and if you call it starting with 1, you'll get something like while(1), i = 0
21:20:07	bluebrother	thus the loop runs exactly one time. Which is what you want.
21:20:08	casainho	I just don't understand why count just decrement from 256 to 255 and after never more decrements :-(
21:20:09	Boulet	can you show us who calls this function ? :)
21:20:12	kugel	casainho: like this http://pastebin.com/m5f3033e4
21:20:41	casainho	tranfer() on fat.c
21:20:44	*	bluebrother doesn't see a reason in converting to do .. while except confusing casainho
21:20:48	kugel	but your while should work too, since count isn't evaluated in the inner loop
21:20:49	Boulet	kugel, the previous implementation is better i see :)
21:21:21	bluebrother	kugel: you can't return; on a function that expects to return a value ...
21:21:27	casainho	so, please say, shound'nt count decrement by one every time?
21:21:46	bluebrother	yes, _if_ count > 1
21:21:50	kugel	bluebrother: right, return 0; then
21:22:21	bluebrother	the compiler might have optimized the loop. Thus you possibly won't see the decrement in that case
21:22:55	*	bluebrother still thinks this extra check is useless if it can be done implicitly
21:23:06	kugel	while(count−−) should work perfectly actually
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21:25:44	*	amiconn reminds kugel that postincrements/decrements in a condition check are less efficient than preincrements/decrements
21:25:54	casainho	bluebrother: if I put count as static, do you think I can see it decrementing?
21:26:10	kugel	amiconn: "reminds"? I never knew that
21:26:26	bluebrother	casainho: why should that change anything? That won't work.
21:26:33	casainho	I think is very strange that I see count decrementing from 256 to 255 and never more...
21:27:00	casainho	because if count never reaches 0, then system crashes, no?
21:27:04	bluebrother	well, you sure the function actually exits?
21:27:10	amiconn	kugel: Preincrement/decrement means the condition flags can be set within the same instruction that does the increment/decrement
21:27:15	mcuelenaere	casainho: have you find out what precise instruction 'crashes' the device?
21:27:28	casainho	mcuelenaere: no, I don't
21:27:41	kugel	amiconn: so it saves 1 instruction?
21:27:56	amiconn	Also, a tail controlled loop is more efficient than a head controlled loop (slightly smaller & faster, saves either a branch or a second condition check)
21:28:16	mcuelenaere	casainho: IMO the easiest and best way to solve this is to find this by doing step-by-step debugging..
21:28:19	bertrik	yay, so it crashes faster ...
21:28:20	amiconn	kugel: At least one, sometimes more (depending on gcc's mood)
21:28:22	Boulet	amiconn oh really ?
21:28:42	Boulet	on ARM cpus ?
21:28:57	amiconn	Tail loop should be faster on almost all cpus.
21:29:29	bluebrother	shouldn't compilers optimize that anyway?
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21:29:55	kugel	amiconn: I read about tail loops being more efficient actually, but I never examined exactly why this is
21:30:02	amiconn	bluebrother: They probably should. Whether they do is a completely different matter. Check what gcc produces...
21:30:05	casainho	mcuelenaere: oh, but that can be 256 * 256 times :-(
21:30:21	mcuelenaere	then try doing this call with count=3 or so
21:30:35	amiconn	The pre vs. post different due to flag setting doesn't apply to all supported architectures. It applies to coldfire and arm, but not to SH
21:30:36		Quit {phoenix} (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:30:38	bluebrother	haven't checked gcc for that though I assumed it's kinda decent in that aspect ... should give it a look.
21:30:58	bluebrother	at least the compiler at work does this optimizations.
21:31:02	amiconn	bluebrother: gcc is sometimes decent and often crappy
21:31:13	mcuelenaere	casainho: and can't you 'fast-forward' the 512-byte copy loop by placing a breakpoint after it?
21:31:29	amiconn	I've almost never seen it convert a head loop into a tail loop
21:31:47	bluebrother	wow. I'm ... impressed :(
21:32:07	Boulet	amiconn, for a loop like this one it is not a big deal
21:32:15	amiconn	kugel: There is either a size or a speed advantage for a tail loop, depending on which implementation gcc chooses
21:32:31	kugel	amiconn: is the paste I posted more effecient (regardless of the post/pre-increment)?
21:32:56	kugel	i.e. with tail loop, but with if(!count) before
21:33:04	amiconn	For a head loop, it either needs to duplicate the condition check (one at loop entry, the other at the end of the loop), then it's larger, but equally fast as the tail loop
21:33:29	casainho	mcuelenaere: yes, I tried that and I miss what line make the system crash :-(
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21:34:00	amiconn	The other option is to not duplicate the condition, but put a branch in front of the loop that branches to the condition check at the end. No extra space needed, but the first iteration is slower (2 extra branches)
21:34:07	bluebrother	amiconn: can't it branch to the loop head at the end and then branch from there to the instruction after the end?
21:36:25	casainho	I did "static int count"; and count = count1; and then I can see count decementing... :-)
21:36:47	Boulet	you can just do volatile...
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21:39:02	kugel	count is a parameter, right?
21:39:18	kugel	so, you can't magically change the storage type, or you copy it
21:40:09	kugel	s/storage/whatever is appropriate :P
21:40:12	bluebrother	you can "magically" change the prototype of the function ...
21:41:08	casainho	I am seing the code crashing with count being less than 200...
21:41:17	casainho	I will now try to get the exact value
21:41:28	bluebrother	check where the output buffer points to
21:41:34	casainho	bluebrother: and I don't know how to dump the memory...
21:42:54	casainho	bluebrother: points to here: 0x20000200
21:43:09	bluebrother	is that valid RAM?
21:43:12	casainho	which I think is strange, since my SD Ram strats at 0x20000000
21:43:36	casainho	well, this code is working if count = 1....
21:43:41	bluebrother	you're in the bootloader trying to load the main binary, right?
21:44:08	casainho	bluebrother: right, it hangs when says "loading rockbox.xxx"...
21:44:31	casainho	before it even prints model name and checksum of firmware...
21:44:42	bluebrother	well. Have you tried loading two sectors and dumping them somewhere?
21:44:48	kugel	that just means the 1st 8byte are read correctly
21:45:01	bluebrother	I really doubt that you have an issue with that code.
21:45:04	kugel	but you already said you can read the first sector, so that's meaningless
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21:45:15	bluebrother	no, it must have read the FAT before ... plus filesystem entries
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21:45:37	kugel	hm, no, if the checksum matched, it read the fat too, yes
21:45:54	bluebrother	it _has_ to read the FAT to access the file ...
21:46:15	kugel	successfully, I mean
21:46:18	bluebrother	unless you ensure the file is always located at the same sector. Which I'm rather sure isn't the case here.
21:46:31	casainho	here is the memory map file: http://pastebin.com/m210d0f65
21:46:55	casainho	I would like to know if 0x20000200 is the buf address...
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21:47:25	bluebrother	you can't tell that from the map.
21:47:32	casainho	all I can say, is that here where it crashes, is the first time count > 1...
21:47:53	casainho	but, at least know if there is some program code on that address?
21:48:03	bluebrother	try reading two sectors with that function and check if the data matches the data on disk.
21:48:03	casainho	or if 0x20000200 can be wrong?
21:48:32	kugel	I don't see how that's wrong if the first sectore is transferred
21:48:43	bluebrother	well, you try to load the main binary. That means you most likely want to overwrite the complete RAM, except that part where you've put your bootloader to run
21:48:43	amiconn	Where in memory is the bootloader located?
21:49:55	bluebrother	the bootloader is somewhere in that memory range you seem to be writing to.
21:49:56	kugel	hehe, I'm ams sansa spoiled where the bootloader is in iram, so we just copy carelessly to ram start :/
21:49:59	casainho	amiconn: bootloader is on the begining...
21:50:16	kugel	you should of course not override the bootloader, I think
21:50:21	kugel	overwrite even
21:50:25	Bagder	kugel: this guy has "iram" too I'm quite sure
21:50:36	casainho	ah... so the load_firmware() copy the code?
21:50:38	bluebrother	the map shows 0x1000 bytes iram
21:51:13	kugel	Bagder: do you know if it's used by the bootloader?
21:51:13	Bagder	casainho: it ... loads ... firmware !
21:51:14	casainho	eheh - I didn't know, I didn't understand what load_firware does...
21:51:30	bluebrother	load firmware?
21:51:46	*	bluebrother wonders if Rockbox contains any sensible function names at all
21:51:47	casainho	bluebrother: yes, the load_firmware()
21:51:52	Bagder	kugel: since casainho writes the lot it certainly could
21:51:58	kugel	load_firmware is one of the few functions that actually has a very descriptive name
21:52:19	casainho	but I didn't understand that it overwrite the RAM
21:52:25	casainho	I didn't realize
21:52:36	casainho	well, so, I must work it on app.lds?
21:52:37	kugel	anyway, I never claimed he doesn't. I just wanted to note, that he shouldn't overwrite the bootloader if it's in the same location
21:52:43	Unhelpful	kugel: many of them are descriptive if you're used to POSIX
21:52:44	*	Bagder will not ask where casainho thought the firmware would go...
21:53:12	bluebrother	IRAM?
21:53:19	casainho	Bagder: well, to a different address, right? :-)
21:53:38	Bagder	casainho: well, you decide that address so you better make sure they're not the same
21:54:06	casainho	hmmm, so, it's here where I define? : loadbuffer = (unsigned char)0x20000000; / DRAMORIG */
21:54:35	kugel	casainho: the code can't work if the bootloader is at this location
21:54:49	bluebrother	well, you basically make the buffer start at the begin of the RAM −− where the code you're currently executing is located ...
21:54:52	casainho	kugel: yes, bootloader is right on that address ;-)
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21:55:46	casainho	so, loadbuffer should be placed at a "safe" address, maybe after the bootloader? and is just that? will the load_firmware then work as expected?
21:55:54	kugel	casainho: you either need to put the bootloader into another location (like IRAM, or at the end of the RAM, or something like that), or load the firmware to an address with a proper offset
21:56:13	Bagder	"as expected" is tricky since you apaprently didn't know what to expect...
21:56:28	kugel	he presumably expects the rockbox main menu :)
21:56:30	bluebrother	casainho: well, the firmware you're loading has to be linked for running from that address too
21:56:42	bluebrother	the main menu has to be earned :P
21:56:45	casainho	Bagder: eheh :-) I expect it to run the firmware, magically :-)
21:56:51	Bagder	;-)
21:57:00	*	bluebrother throws some magic in the channel
21:57:01	Bagder	magic we like!
21:57:18	*	bluebrother still has some magic questions about OS X
21:57:34	casainho	bluebrother: ok, I think I can define that on app.lds.
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21:58:05	Bagder	casainho: I would recommend you to use that address for the firmware and instead move away the bootloader
21:58:16	bluebrother	and you need to jump to the correct address after loading. Obviously ...
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21:58:30	Bagder	or possibly copy stuff over the beginning later
21:58:44	bluebrother	bah, who cares about wasted RAM? ;-)
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21:59:01	casainho	bluebrother: how that jump is done, defined?
21:59:11	bluebrother	somewhere in the code :)
21:59:29	casainho	bluebrother: but don't the load_firmware do it?
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21:59:48	casainho	is not the kernel_entry()?
21:59:51	bluebrother	possibly. I'm not familiar with that code.
22:00
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22:00:59	casainho	Bagder: okok - I think I will put bootloader at end of SD RAM...
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22:09:14		Quit Horscht ("Verlassend")
22:11:35	casainho	and yes, I am expecting to see the rockbox main menu!! :-) −− I don't have keys nor audio dac IC :-)
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22:24:10	gartral1	subversion tracker is down >.>
22:24:25	Bagder	subversion tracker?
22:24:59	gartral1	the subversion panel on the site
22:25:16	gartral1	i was just looking for a better word for it...
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22:27:56	gartral1	the expanded ones are still working...
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22:29:13	Bagder	the svn server is unreachable atm it seems
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22:40:22	gartral1	great..
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22:41:56	Boulet	I don't have this olimex ARM board
22:42:12	Boulet	can i use QEMU to run and develop on rockbox ?
22:45:13	gartral1	i wouldnt, Boulet, qemu is painfully slow!
22:46:02	Bagder	Boulet: if you want to work on the app side of rockbox you can just run a simulator
22:46:05	Boulet	gartral1, i presume i can compile rockbox on cygwin ?
22:46:33	Boulet	i'd like to have the GUI working too
22:46:37	gartral1	yes, theres a page in the wiki on how too
22:47:51	Boulet	do you all develop on this using actual hardware ?
22:48:34	Boulet	i am looking at wiki right now
22:49:35	gartral1	yes, but keep in mind, the olimex board you were talking about was for the Rockbox Player, we as a whole work on quite a few more player than just that one
22:50:37	Boulet	ok
22:50:47	Boulet	you are not limited to that one Atmel ARM9 i presume...
22:51:38	Bagder	the svn stuff on the front page is back
22:51:41	Boulet	i see, so there are UI simulators
22:51:45	gartral1	take a look at the "releases"
22:52:13	Boulet	yes i can see them all
22:52:16	gartral1	yay, what went wrong?
22:52:28	Boulet	and i guess it is easy to create a new UI simulator for a new device ?
22:53:03	gartral1	those are alll the hardware DAPs we currently have little, or no problems with rockbox on...
22:53:22	gartral1	i dont know, ive never tryed... though i woulld assume so
22:53:53	Bagder	Boulet: yes it is
22:54:06	Boulet	gartral1, but do you always cross compile to the ARM platform or is it preferable to use native x86 code when you debug ?
22:54:30	Bagder	the simulators are not cross-compiled
22:54:52	Boulet	yes that makes sense for the simulator
22:54:52	Bagder	they're native sdl-using applications
22:54:56	Boulet	but for the code itself ?
22:54:57	gartral1	i know very little of the way the sims work
22:55:10	Bagder	for target stuff you cross-compile
22:55:40	Boulet	ah ok. mmmh so, how is the arm code executed on the native platform ?
22:55:55	gartral1	its not
22:56:08	gartral1	you compile for sim, or hardware when you build..
22:56:32	Boulet	ok, so you don't debug in arm mode on your PC
22:56:50	Bagder	Boulet: well, what do you mean with "debug" ?
22:57:11	Bagder	and not all our targets use arm
22:57:28	Boulet	i mean that you don't compile to ARM and have the ARM code "simulated" on the PC ?
22:57:39	Boulet	you only compile to ARM when you want to burn on an actual device ?
22:57:49	n1s	for some bugs the sims are great for debugging even if they are just sims
22:58:03	n1s	Boulet: yes
22:58:11	n1s	simulator != emulator
22:58:37	Boulet	ah
22:58:47	gartral1	we could use an emulator for some problems though...
22:59:07	Bagder	indeed
22:59:07	Boulet	what about QEMU? despite the fact that it is slow
22:59:11	Boulet	do some people use it too ?
22:59:20	Bagder	no
22:59:34	Bagder	since there's no qemu setup for any of our targets
22:59:51	Boulet	ok
23:00
23:00:22	Boulet	so, when you find a new device that you wish to port rockbox to, you need to write specific drivers for audio, lcd, and other low-level stuff ?
23:00:32	Bagder	yes
23:01:06	Boulet	and push buttons, and potentiometers...
23:01:13	Boulet	that's pretty cool :)
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23:02:10	gartral1	Boulet: have you taken a look through the getting started segment of the forums?
23:02:20	casainho	hello again :-)
23:02:33	Boulet	i haven't looked at the forums yet, i am looking at FAQs
23:03:01	Boulet	it looks like i could do developpement under cygwin, are there any restrictions compared to doing developpement under linux ?
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23:03:37	casainho	my bootloader first prints on LCD a checsum: 2603ebf and later it lprints "loading rockbox.xxxx" and after prints "Sum: 2603bfc", "Bad cheksum"
23:03:49	gartral1	nope, cygwin is just alinux overlayed ontop of windows...
23:03:52		Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded)
23:04:05	casainho	why could I do wrong?
23:04:05	Boulet	thanks gartral1
23:04:17	gartral1	casainho: what device, what version bootloader?
23:04:58	casainho	gartral1: Rockbox Player: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayer
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23:05:46	Bagder	casainho: well, you produce the binary and the checksum code so you better verify the two and see which one is wrong
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23:06:11	casainho	how can I do that?
23:06:34	Bagder	use your intelligence to debug
23:06:38	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:06:50	kugel	grr, since when you need perl for compiling rockbox?
23:07:13	Bagder	since many years
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23:07:26	casainho	I don't know how... and I taught the first checksum it prints were already the value from loaded file from SD Card...
23:07:39		Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded)
23:07:51	casainho	I don't know how Rockbox details works...
23:07:56	Bagder	yes one is what is stored in the file and the other is what you calculate after load
23:08:05	kugel	Bagder: I remember I could build it without some time ago
23:08:24		Join lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@student165-213.hampshire.edu)
23:08:39	Bagder	kugel: only parts of it if so
23:08:51	gartral1	casainho: im going off on a limb here, but, you might try reinstalling he bootloader...
23:08:52	Bagder	the lang system used perl day 1
23:08:53	casainho	Bagder: so, it's all automatic, no?
23:09:05	Bagder	casainho: what?
23:09:06		Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded)
23:09:23	kugel	Bagder: "addtargetdir.pl", since r19169
23:09:32		Join lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@student165-213.hampshire.edu)
23:09:32	casainho	well, I didn't generated any checksum...
23:09:54	Bagder	kugel: yes, but as I said genlang was perl when first committed many years ago and that is needed
23:10:10	kugel	hm, I don't know how I compiled without perl then
23:11:29	kugel	I compiled it on windows once, using msys and WinARM, and I've never installed perl on windows
23:11:32	casainho	Bagder: please help
23:11:46	Bagder	casainho: what more can I say?
23:12:12	gartral1	casainho: ide try reinstalling the bootloader...
23:12:50	Bagder	casainho: you've selected a checksum method somehow
23:13:12	Bagder	"scramble" is typically used
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23:13:50	Bagder	and if you don't know this, there's really no wonder why the codes don't match
23:14:10	casainho	Bagder: mclunuare did help me on that and I had to change the scramble.c file...
23:15:03	casainho	I would like to understand, where the first value of checksum comes from?
23:15:24	Bagder	I already told you
23:15:29	Bagder	the first is stored in the file
23:15:33	Bagder	scramble puts it there
23:15:43	Bagder	the other gets calculated after the file has been loaded
23:15:49	Bagder	it is done to verify that the file is fine
23:16:02	casainho	ah, okok - I assume scramble is working corrextly
23:16:16	casainho	okok - thanks, it's clear for me now :-)O
23:17:46	casainho	and that problem before were because I were overwritting the bootloader with the firmware :-)
23:18:08	Bagder	I would guess the checksum problem is about length of the image
23:18:14	Bagder	since they're so similar
23:18:52	casainho	oh, I am getting diferent values everytime of the second value :-(
23:19:10	casainho	but the first 3 values are always equal: 260xxxx
23:19:37	Bagder	then you better figure out why!
23:19:55	casainho	now the first was: 2603EFB and second: 2604135
23:20:08	casainho	okok :-)
23:24:40	kugel	grml, I don't get lang.h :/
23:26:05		Quit domonoky1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:28:41	mcuelenaere	is anyone able to figure out what the STAT pin does in this chip? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/OndaVX747/TQ7051.pdf
23:30:25		Join dabujo [0] (n=xx@mnhm-5f75e74e.pool.einsundeins.de)
23:31:16	casainho	mcuelenaere: Charge Status Output.
23:31:41		Part pyro_maniac
23:32:08	*	mcuelenaere wonders why they first name it STAT and then CHRG :/
23:32:10	mcuelenaere	casainho: thanks
23:33:41	casainho	when on charging, it runs on the LED on figure "Typical Application Diagram"
23:34:02	casainho	turns on
23:38:13	Boulet	what is the minimum RAM requirement to run rockbox ?
23:38:24	Boulet	8MB ?
23:38:29	n1s	depends on the target
23:38:34	n1s	some have 2MB
23:38:43	Boulet	rockbox can run on 2MB target ?
23:38:48	n1s	yes
23:38:57	Boulet	which one for example ?
23:39:13	Boulet	that sounds so small...
23:39:27	Boulet	linux kernel, various drivers, busybox ?
23:39:34	n1s	the old archos (player/recorder/ondio) models
23:39:40	bluebrother	Rockbox is not linux
23:39:42	n1s	rockbox is not linux
23:40:26	n1s	also there's a wip port for the sansa clip, that has 2MB ram too and 320KB iram
23:41:06		Quit lymeca (Connection timed out)
23:41:11	Boulet	what RTOS is it using then ?
23:41:17	bluebrother	its own
23:41:31	bluebrother	why does it need to use a pre-made RTOS?
23:41:33	Boulet	huah !
23:41:45	Boulet	bluebrother good question ...
23:41:52	Boulet	well it is not based on anything existing ?
23:41:56	bluebrother	no
23:42:00	Boulet	someone wrote a new OS from scratch, ah ?
23:42:02	Boulet	waw
23:42:20	bluebrother	quoting the front page: "Rockbox is an open source firmware for mp3 players, written from scratch."
23:42:32	linuxstb	A few hundred people have contributed to Rockbox over the past 6-7 years...
23:43:22	Boulet	ah i can see now, in rockbox/firmware...
23:43:59		Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:44:16	Boulet	really cool
23:44:48	Boulet	why using its own OS instead of linux ? is it because it is smaller ?
23:45:30	Boulet	if there is a device that has USB host capability and no wireless, is it possible to write a driver for a wifi-usb-dongle in rockbox ?
23:45:48	bluebrother	the linux kernel is too big and does too much other stuff.
23:45:52	BigBambi	Becuase linux is a general purpose huge OS
23:46:04	BigBambi	*kernel
23:46:13	Boulet	i thought it was getting better and better for embedded systems too (?)
23:46:16	bluebrother	Rockbox needs a small OS. At best, a scheduler.
23:46:17	scorche\|sh	why would we want all that other cruft?
23:46:20	Boulet	ie. smaller
23:46:47	Boulet	i don't know why you would need all that other stuff, good point :)
23:46:52	bluebrother	Linux won't run on systems without a MMU iirc −− and almost none of the targets does have one
23:47:04	Boulet	there is uclinux for that, isn't it ?
23:47:07	mcuelenaere	all of the supported targets
23:47:18	BigBambi	Boulet: Which is still huge
23:47:27	bluebrother	if we consider the beast unsupported, yes ;-)
23:47:27	BigBambi	relativly speaking
23:47:45	amiconn	Afaik the gigabeat F/X also has a MMU
23:48:06	mcuelenaere	I think almost all the new ports have a MMU
23:48:13	Boulet	what about in a few years when even the smallest device will have 64MB of ram ?
23:48:21	Boulet	and MMU
23:48:29	scorche\|sh	why would we switch when the rockbox kernel is much better for our purposes?
23:48:31	bluebrother	my ipod mini will still have neither.
23:48:33	BigBambi	Boulet: why waste RAM for the sake of it?
23:48:38	mcuelenaere	Boulet: AFAIK there are currently only 2 targets with 64MB RAM
23:48:39	gevaerts	Will they? They seem to be getting smaller...
23:48:54	BigBambi	Boulet: We want RAM to buffer music - the less RAM the worse the battery life
23:49:03	mcuelenaere	Boulet: a lot of RAM is only needed for HDD targets, and most new have NAND
23:49:53	Boulet	all valid points hehe ok ok
23:50:07	Boulet	wait now an other question
23:50:24	Boulet	can you reuse linux drivers in your kernel ?
23:50:29	Boulet	or port them very easily ?
23:50:29	scorche\|sh	no...
23:50:30	mcuelenaere	not without adjusting
23:50:33	BigBambi	no
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23:50:51	Boulet	i am especially speaking in the case of device that would have USB host and/or OTG
23:51:16	Boulet	it looks like it could extend the functionality of rockbox, like this wifi usb-dongle thingy ?
23:51:20	bluebrother	you'd need to have knowledge about the hardware too, which is usually rather limited
23:51:22	scorche\|sh	it would require a lot of tweaking...one might be a bit better off just writing your own and using it as a reference for some things
23:51:33	mcuelenaere	Boulet: you could also do wifi through SD using SDIO
23:51:46	Boulet	that's true mcuelenaere
23:52:16	Boulet	well USB and SDIO does not have voodoo components outside the MCU
23:52:20	bluebrother	who wants wifi on a dap anyway? At least me wants to play music ...
23:52:29	Boulet	so even without knowledge of the hardware you can have tons of drivers for those
23:52:46	Boulet	wifi, bluetooth, who knows
23:52:48	BigBambi	Boulet: but ultimately Rockbox is a music player - there is no point sacrificing music playback ability for wifi or something else marginal
23:52:50	Boulet	it is just an example
23:53:08	scorche\|sh	Boulet: many of our devices use a proprietary system on a chip..
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23:53:25	n1s	bluebrother it could be quite nice for copying music to the player wirelessly and perhaps internet radio :)
23:53:30	gartral1	wifi on my dap, dependidng, if i could browse the web, maybe, but if it were something like what microsoft set up, where it was just a way too share... nah...
23:53:46	BigBambi	yes, I think you would struggle to find linux drivers for these daps...
23:53:51	BigBambi	They aren't "PC" components
23:54:07	Boulet	so the main external periphericals you need to work with are push-buttons/LCD/CODEC/Flash and ram ?
23:54:20	Boulet	not always USB ?
23:54:20	scorche\|sh	the SoC may be able to perform USBOTG functions, but that doesnt mean we would necessarily know how to use it
23:54:30	Boulet	i see
23:54:50	BigBambi	Boulet: just because it is a SoC doesn't mean it doesn't need drivers written
23:54:56	BigBambi	e.g. to make sound come out...
23:54:58	mcuelenaere	+ it could be disabled in hardware (USB OTG)
23:55:00	scorche\|sh	the hardware we work with can be completely undocumented...this makes things a bit different ;)
23:55:04	gartral1	as is the case with any sansa at the moment, none have reliable USB under rockbox..
23:55:08	Boulet	but if you really wanted to support a usb wifi dongle for example in that olimex hardware, you could, right ?
23:55:33	Boulet	i mean, porting a linux one into rockbox
23:55:35	BigBambi	yes, if someone wrote the driver
23:55:36	n1s	with the right documentation for it probably, yes
23:55:38	BigBambi	etc
23:55:42	Boulet	ok
23:56:10	scorche\|sh	Boulet: like i said..you would probably be better off writing your own driver and using the linux one as a reference instead of porting it, but it depends..
23:56:36	Boulet	i understand
23:56:52		Quit n1s ()
23:56:52	Boulet	thank you
23:58:28		Quit SirFunk (Connection timed out)

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