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#rockbox log for 2009-02-02

00:01:05Bagderyeah, the only fs dump I have for an R is from the devboard and that's some kind of hybrid R so I can't really say that's safe
00:02:10Legomaniacdo you know of someone who might have that dump file or of an alternative method that might get it to work if all of the recovery mode tactics have failed?
00:03:02Bagdersorry, I can't say I do
00:04:20 Quit Jonny_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]")
00:04:30Legomaniacyou were saying earlier that e200tool could rescue me in manufacturer mode, how so?
00:05:36Bagderwell, using the normal go into recovery mode and then store a new bootloader and then use the format trick, I would assume
00:05:46mcuelenaereBagder: have you already looked at implementing checkwps into tools/configure or should I give it a try?
00:06:04 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:06:07Bagder... uh, no that's still pending
00:08:11 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:08:27n1swe could just add it to the list of tools so that it gets built for each build, a small waste but also quite simple
00:08:53LegomaniacBagder: I have already tried sansa.fmt, firmware.mi4 (and it's older named equiv.) and the bootloader file off of daniel's site in recovery mode, and none of those fixes have worked, but I didn't use e200tool in the process
00:08:59Bagdern1s: it would quite suffice, since right now those tools are not cleared on all rebuilds
00:09:39BagderLegomaniac: just for the record, I am daniel
00:10:03Legomaniacoh, well thanks you greatly for all of your resources
00:10:10Bagdern1s: argh, would NOT suffice
00:10:49n1sBagder: don't they rebuild if their dependencies change?
00:11:03BigBambibertrik (for the logs): Looks very nice! A bit patchy, but there is definately info there :)
00:11:10Bagdern1s: they do...
00:11:27Bagderbut that would make yellows for example only appear once
00:11:38n1sah, right
00:12:17Bagderhm, how is checkwps built right now?
00:13:44mcuelenaereThe script gets run
00:13:52mcuelenaerewhich calls Makefile with different arguments
00:13:55Bagderright, I just found it
00:14:28mcuelenaereI would think something like tools/configure generating a Makefile which calls (and upon clean)
00:14:41Bagderyes, I think so too
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00:18:04LegomaniacBagder: is there a way I can restore the bootloader and the firmware using e200tool without having to go into recovery mode?
00:18:46BagderLegomaniac: no, as the recovery mode is the only thing that can write the bootloader etc to the hidden partition
00:19:14Bagderthat's why from manufacture mode the first thing to do is to get recovery mode working
00:20:05Legomaniacwhat about e2tplus?
00:20:24Bagderwhat's that?
00:20:29 Quit lymeca (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:20:58Legomaniace2tplus is nothing but e200tool with ability to read from and write to NAND memory (daughter board).
00:21:17Legomaniaccopied from the thread I have found to be the most promising
00:21:51Bagderif they modified e200tool without passing the code back to us, I would not trust it
00:21:55Bagderbut that's me
00:24:03 Quit ender` (" We are surprised at our own versatility in being able to fail in so many different ways. -- Samuel McChord Crothers")
00:24:43Legomaniacalright, I will take your word on not trusting their code, but whenever I paste the firmware.mi4 file, the bootloader file (in .btl formate) and the sansa.fmt file onto the recovery mode partition upon reboot I just get the error "load main image failed" "enter recovery mode"
00:25:36Bagderthe standard R recovery mode cannot write the bootloader
00:26:02Bagderso if that is damaged, you need to run the recovery mode using a "vanilla" bootloader
00:26:11 Join casainho [0] (
00:26:37casainhohello :-)
00:27:02casainhoI am having a probelm on FAT32 driver...
00:27:21casainhocan someone please look at this piece of code and explanation of my problem? :
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00:28:19mcuelenaerecasainho: what does this mean? 'When i more or less higher than 200'
00:28:33Bagder(wrote the exact same question, but was too slow)
00:29:36LegomaniacBagder: is there a guide somewhere that can explain how to use a "vanilla" bootloader
00:29:38casainhoi is one variable...
00:29:58casainhoon this loop: for (i=0; (i < sectorcount) && (sector > -1); i++ ) {
00:30:41casainhoI am trying to run the code step by step and did happens that when "i" was about higher then 200, the problem did happen :-(
00:30:55BagderLegomaniac: I don't know. You can run it by entering manufacture mode and then load that bootloader to get to recovery mode
00:31:25mcuelenaerecasainho: as I think there's probably nothing wrong with the FAT driver, are you sure your read_sectors()/write_sectors() implementation does nothing wrong?
00:31:51mcuelenaere(and as you run code step by step, can't you see where it 'crashes'?)
00:32:40LegomaniacBagder: will e200tool know where to place the .btl bootloader file? Do I have to place it at a specific sector?
00:33:30casainhomcuelenaere: okok, I will try... but I just see it "crashing"... I am right now trying to take a sreenshot before adn after to show you
00:33:38BagderLegomaniac: e200tool doesn't place it at all. e200tool helps you reach recovery mode, and then you copy the bootloader to the recovery partition
00:34:06BagderLegomaniac: but since that is the vanilla bootloader, you need to then rename the bootloader to .rom to make it "look" like a vanilla one to the recovery mode
00:34:20Bagderhm, I express myself a bit confusing
00:34:29casainhooh, I saw now, after "last_sector" is higher than 255!!!
00:34:42Legomaniacyeah, sorry I am not following you so well
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00:35:01mcuelenaerecasainho: do you have a recent diff somewhere?
00:35:06BagderLegomaniac: the key steps are 1) manufature mode 2) load the vanilla bootloader
00:35:23BagderLegomaniac: then you mount the 16MB recovery file system
00:35:50BagderLegomaniac: there you copy the .btl bootloader, but you need to rename it to the vanilla bootloader name which ends with .rom
00:36:17casainhomcuelenaere: diff of what? of all my port code?
00:36:37mcuelenaereboth the one in the patch tracker and on seems out of date
00:37:07LegomaniacBagder: so how do I perform step 2?
00:37:20BagderLegomaniac: using e200tool
00:38:06casainhoI will upload one right now!
00:38:26BagderLegomaniac: "e200tool recover <bootloader_file>" is the command
00:38:27LegomaniacBagder: I guess I was just a little confused when you said that e200tool doesn't place anything
00:38:41BagderLegomaniac: e200tool just loads stuff in your device's RAM
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00:41:17casainhomcuelenaere: here is the patch::
00:41:58casainhoBagder: can you guess why that piece of code hangs when variable "i" pass the value 255?
00:42:19casainhothat piece of code is the original from FAT driver...
00:42:30LegomaniacBagder: where could I attain a copy of the vanilla bootloader so I can use e200tool to load it?
00:42:32kugelcasainho: do you setup the RAM?
00:42:39kugelor cpu clocks
00:42:50kugelI don't see any system_init() in your bootloader
00:43:12BagderLegomaniac: lists a few
00:43:20mcuelenaereisn't that already setup by the bootloader/crt0.S?
00:43:21Bagder"BL file"
00:43:45Bagdercasainho: can't you just single-step until it hangs?
00:44:02casainhokugel: the SD RAM and CPU clocks are configured on OpenOCD scritps, because I am debugging the code... and yes, it is on crt0.S file
00:44:02Bagderb [point] if (i == 255)
00:44:58casainhoBagder: is that a command to GDB? because I am using Eclipse... but I will try to use that command on Eclipse Debug shell...
00:45:18Bagderyes, that's a conditional breakpoint in gdb speak
00:45:56mcuelenaerecasainho: that isn't really how other targets do this (they do this in system_init() ). IMHO crt0.S should be as clean as possible
00:47:02Bagdercasainho: but the logic at line 85+86 is probably what is triggered at that point so you could focus there
00:47:02casainhomcuelenaere: in fact, it does on a C function called soon as possible on C Startup...
00:47:23mcuelenaerehmm yes I just saw it now
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00:47:36mcuelenaerewell anyway, it's just my opinion; not a rule or so :)
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00:48:57casainhoBagder: nice ;-) −− I will put a break point there and see...
00:49:28casainhomcuelenaere: well, later I can clean the code :-) −− I am focus now to put bootloader working :-)
00:49:54*Bagder runs off to try his bed for a few hours
00:49:55LegomaniacBagder: I think I am misunderstanding you, I previously got my firmware and bootloader file from the site you just linked me to, but I do not see anything there referencing or named "vanilla"
00:50:16BagderLegomaniac: "vanilla" as in the regular e200, the non-R ones
00:50:40Legomaniacoh... thank you!
00:51:02casainhogood night :-)
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00:55:26casainhomcuelenaere: did you try the patch?
00:55:38casainhoI just saw that it hangs on my driver: int sd_read_sectors(IF_MV2(int drive,) unsigned long start, int count, void* buf)
00:56:09mcuelenaerehow do you mean 'did you try the patch' ?
00:56:16mcuelenaereI don't have the target??
00:56:23casainhowell, if you did something with the patch...
00:56:28mcuelenaereno, not really
00:56:37casainhomcuelenaere: ok, I understand.. but since you asked for it...
00:57:04mcuelenaerewell I looked shortly at it, but didn't really see anything suspicous
00:57:18mcuelenaerehave you found where exactly it crashes?
01:01:36casainhohmmm, it's on my drivers, on that sd_read_sectors... however I am tryning to understand... because it crashes just when it is called on that time... −− okok, I will report later :-)
01:05:17casainhoeheh :-)
01:05:18casainhoint sd_read_sectors(IF_MV2(int drive,) unsigned long start, int count, void* buf)
01:05:31casainho"count" must be static, I think
01:06:11casainhoor no? - can the "count" lost it value if I call another function inside that one?
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01:10:07mcuelenaerehow could you define 'count' static in a function call?
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01:12:58casainhomcuelenaere: well, I think "count" goes to 0 after another function is called inside that one...
01:13:10mcuelenaereBagder (logs): does this look like a clean enough implementation?
01:13:43mcuelenaerecasainho: yes, that's what the while(count−−) does
01:13:48mcuelenaereisn't this code yours?
01:14:51casainhoI yes, that's my code, maybe it's buggy :-) no?
01:15:20mcuelenaerecould be
01:15:31mcuelenaereso the device crashes upon entering sd_read_sectors()?
01:18:36casainhoyes, it was hanging there.. now I changed the code and looks like it is hanging later...
01:18:41casainhoI will discover...
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01:29:10casainhomcuelenaere: oh no - the system crashes on that loop "while(count−−)"
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01:29:33mcuelenaerecasainho: how so? does it go into an infinte loop?
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01:36:41fettHi all
01:37:28casainhomcuelenaere: I am truyngin to understand... I coundln't find yet...
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01:40:18fettI have a Sansa e260 and I use rockbox.. it is very cool... Also I have Griffin dock station with power in and audio out. When I supply power my Sansa use default firware instead of rockbox. Is there a way to enable rockbox?
01:42:57*mcuelenaere is off to bed
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04:00:28krazykitasdf_, Guest10412, this is an on-topic rockbox support/development channel. please keep it on-topic
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04:48:22*linuxstb wonders about the changes to checkwps
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04:54:03not-AndyHello! I was just wondering whether or not I can install (even if it doesn't work) RockBox in hardware for which it was definitely NOT intended. If so, how do I get it to install in the first place? Thanks in advance!
04:54:30krazykitnot-Andy, you'd have to port rockbox to that hardware
04:54:41scorcheRockbox needs to be specially ported to each individual device
04:56:27not-AndyOkay then. I'll see what I can do... thanks again!
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05:47:24JCMy Sansa model says E250R and has a Rhapsody logo on its back, but, the USB modes are MSC and MTP. So should I use E250's firmware or E250R's firmware?
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05:52:03Eggbertxcan someone help me with making custom plugins?
05:52:47JdGordongot a specific question?
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09:26:36BigBambiThe H10 uses the OF for USB right? (I'm sure it does, just doublin checking)
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09:59:13bluefoxxhow far away are we from a working port of rockbox for the v2 e200 series?
09:59:35B4gderit is partially working
10:00:12B4gdermean, parts of it works!
10:00:16B4gdermeaning even
10:00:40bluefoxxit would be nice to have even just basic mp3 audioplayback and microsd connectivity working, as i can't find a new v1 e200
10:00:45bluefoxxmine just broke yet again
10:01:14B4gderI think there are a few others that would also consider that nice
10:01:19bluefoxxso if i wind up just buying a new mp3 player, i want a rockbox-able one
10:02:09bluefoxxi've become rather fond of the mechanical style scroll wheel
10:02:23bluefoxxand i would have to have one capable of microsdHC cards
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10:04:56Zagordoesn't froobi ship to canada?
10:08:02bluefoxxbloody hell i hate electronics sometime
10:09:00bluefoxxmy old e270 had the screen go bad, after someone ran into me and the mp3 player went flying and hit the pavement, and now the new one i got to swap the chips out with has a busted headphone jack
10:09:38Zagorthe headphone jack is a common flaw with the e200
10:09:43bluefoxxreplacing it or soldering it back down would be a breeze, i do SM soldering a fair bit, but the traces for the left channel was ripped right off
10:09:53bluefoxxthe actual jack has no damage
10:09:55bluefoxxits the PCB
10:10:26bluefoxxif anyone has a v1 e200 they feel like shipping to a random person in vancouver for free...
10:10:47JdGordonLinusN: hey, just wondering if you've had a chance to look at the hwcodec problem with my patch?
10:10:56bluefoxxthis wouldn't be so bad if the LCD was socketed like on some of the ipods
10:11:06bluefoxxthan i could just swap those, and the jacks
10:11:12Zagorbluefoxx: you can't glue the jack in place and add wires for the ripped traces?
10:11:26bluefoxxsince the jack mechanism on my old one is screwed up
10:11:32bluefoxxZagor: not really
10:12:08bluefoxxunless it connects to one of the capacators near it, i can't do anything
10:13:44bluefoxxunless i get this fixed, i'm stuck rigging up a audio out cable to plug into the bottem[far less than ideal a solution] or using an ancient minidisk player[that or going back the the screenless one, also less than ideal, voice menues are tedius]
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10:29:13JdGordonanyone using the "official" vmware build environment?
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10:51:55JdGordonnoone has had any problems with voice on archos since 3.1 yeah? (FS #9753)
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10:58:41pixelmain general no, but I bet that the available voice is too big (especially with default settings) on the recorders (as domonoly already says)
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10:59:17JdGordonso close it as not really a biug?
11:00:06pixelmawell it's not a bug with the voice system but with 3.1 - we should get someone to putup a smaller voice file
11:00:09domonokyJdGordon: this bug is real.
11:01:33JdGordonhey domonoky, you see my email?
11:01:52domonokyJdGordon: the mail about you mac ?
11:02:05domonokyjup :-)
11:02:32JdGordongot it all going again?
11:02:59domonokynope, didnt find time for it. Will do it later.
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11:19:36LinusNJdGordon: no i haven't had time to look at it, sorry
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12:46:10mcuelenaerelinuxstb: regarding the checkwps changes:
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12:48:03B4gderanother approach would be to simple build a checkwps for the target you've picked, in the normal build
12:48:08linuxstbmcuelenaere: Why call You could just pass...
12:48:12linuxstb(what B4gder said...)
12:48:35B4gderthat way people will also notice breakage on their own
12:49:12mcuelenaereso you mean adding it to the normal build?
12:49:28B4gderpossibly the cygwin people won't like it
12:49:30mcuelenaerehmm yes, that's perhaps even better
12:50:19B4gderwhen we could add a special target that builds them all
12:51:00linuxstbDo we need that special target? That's what the script is for.
12:51:27B4gderwe probably don't need it
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12:54:31linuxstbmcuelenaere: BTW, regarding your changes to, wouldn't a "cd `dirname $0`" at the start of the script have done the same thing?
12:54:42linuxstb(if it's needed at all)
12:55:21mcuelenaerehmm when the scripts end, is then in `dirname $0` or does the shell ignore that?
12:55:25mcuelenaereis it*
12:55:56linuxstbcd is just local to that script.
12:56:11linuxstbOr rather, local to that shell invocation.
12:56:14mcuelenaereand doing cd `dirname $0` won't place the output files in the correct dir, you'll still need to move them to the current directory
12:56:31mcuelenaereand cleanall should be removing them from the current directory
12:58:26linuxstbWhy is that needed? The other tools are all build in-place.
12:59:05B4gderfor the build system to do a proper check we want the output to get wiped
12:59:23B4gderand yeah, the other tools aren't checked "properly"
12:59:41mcuelenaereyes, but that was for that (not to be used) pastebin change
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13:00:13linuxstbThen passing an "OUTPUTDIR" var to the Makefile would seem nicer.
13:00:40mcuelenaereand ?
13:00:53mcuelenaerethat doesn't invocate the Makefile (even though it could, it has a 'clean' target)
13:02:47linuxstbYes, I think it should do make clean - the Makefile adds $(EXT) to the filename (for win32)
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16:46:28kadobanin function arguments, is "struct viewport list_parent[NB_SCREENS]" the same as "struct viewport * list_parent"? I don't recall seeing that before, and I can't find it in my C references...
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16:48:48mcuelenaerekadoban: it essentially boils down to the same, yes; but the first one can have sizeof() working on list_parent
16:49:12kadobanmcuelenaere: ohh okay, thanks.
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17:50:47amiconnmcuelenaere, kadoban: Those variants are not the same. The struct is passed verbatim in the first case (i.e. copied), not referenced.
17:51:32mcuelenaerehmm true
17:51:35amiconnHmm, I see it's an array of structs.... so it should be referenced
17:51:53amiconnThis is a rather confusing detail in C
17:52:33mcuelenaereand a single array passed as an argument, is that a reference or is it put on the stack?
17:54:33kadobanthat's really confusing
17:54:49kadobani'll have to play with that...i haven't really seen it before at all
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18:22:16EufouriaHi, i'm trying to sign into the rockbox vmware player but my password field won't take any input, anyone know whats going on?
18:22:28kadobanEufouria: does it otherwise accept input?
18:22:35Eufouriain the user field
18:22:42Eufouriaor login field
18:22:55Eufouriaand i can type during the bios start up
18:23:05Unhelpfulsounds like "not echoing password for security" to me.
18:23:14Unhelpfulbut i've not used our vmware image
18:23:43GodEaternor me for ages
18:23:50LambdaCalculus37Me neither.
18:23:50GodEaterI don't know what display manager it uses
18:24:04LambdaCalculus37All I know is that it's Debian-based; that's it.
18:24:14kadobanshould be gnome then i guess?
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18:24:35GodEaterI doubt it
18:24:39GodEaterthat would make the image enormous
18:24:50kadobanoh, right...
18:25:11GodEaterbut since I've not used it - I couldn't swear to it ;)
18:25:14*Unhelpful is shocked that it would be using X at all
18:26:47kadobanEufouria: i assume if you just hit enter that that doesn't work?
18:27:05scorche|shUnhelpful: it makes it easier on people...
18:27:06Eufouriait says Login Incorrect
18:28:56scorche|shjust so you know, the password field does take whatever you put intpo just doesnt show it for security purposes as Unhelpful mentioned
18:29:08scorche|shjust type the correct password and it will work fine..
18:29:39Eufouriagot it. Sorry about that, not the most intuitive though
18:31:47amiconnThere are actually two vmware images I know of
18:31:59amiconnOne uses fluxbox, the other is text-mode only
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19:26:09BigBambibertrik: Nice start on RDS - I could see something start to take shape that made sense :)
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19:29:43bertrikBigBambi, yeah, the patch is full of bugs/missing features, but at least we know now that it is possible in principle
19:30:43bertrikI won't work on it though because I don't have a beast myself
19:31:20bertrikMaybe this could be a nice GSoC project, although the audience for this feature in rockbox is a bit limited
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19:33:05BigBambibertrik: I don't know, how complicated is RDS?
19:33:30BigBambiI have the feeling it might suffer from not being a full summers work as well as being of limited appeal
19:36:02BigBambiStill, it'll be yet another Rockbox only feature (vs OF) :)
19:36:24amiconnI don't think it's a full summer's work
19:36:59BigBambiNo, I was just going by how quickly bertrikgot it this far
19:37:05amiconnSome RDS features can't be implemented anyway (e.g. automatic AF - it would need dual tuners)
19:37:54bertrikBigBambi, RDS is not that complicated actually, you receive 104 bits of data of which 4 x 16 bits remain after error detection, the first 22 bits of this are the same for all RDS frames and is a kind of header that tells you how to interpret the rest of the frame
19:38:46BigBambiIt sounds like the worst thing will be agreeing on how to implement it in Rockbox :)
19:39:00BigBambiCould be part of a W FM S
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19:42:46gevaertsRDS could be useful to sync the RTC
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19:43:15amiconnIndeed. Especially on the beast with its nasty battery swtich
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19:45:06BigBambiyes, I often lose time on the beast
19:45:26gevaertsWe could use the station identification from RDS as well to help with presets. Not sure if it
19:45:31gevaertss worth the effort though
19:45:43*gevaerts can lose time perfectly well without the beast :)
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19:46:19BigBambiNot sure - displaying it (or the option to hence a WFMS) would be nice
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19:48:20gevaertsWell yes. Showing the RDS data is a given if we support it at all I think. I was thinking about some more involved usages like storing the station number in the preset file so you can check if you have the right station
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19:49:35BigBambigevaerts: Yeah, I didn't mean it would be decoded but then not shown, I meant that I'd be very happy with just showing it :)
19:50:34gevaertsI'd add using it as the default station name when saving a preset to the list of must-be-done features
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20:14:00bertrikI was thinking that maybe the combination of getting RDS to work and implementing a W FM S would be about enough work for a GSoC
20:15:20bertrikRDS could also be used for creating a meaningful file name when recording from the radio
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20:29:42bertrikI compiled a list of FM tuners used in rockbox targets yet the only one I could find to support RDS was the gigabeat S
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20:30:50bertrikThe descriptions of the Samsung YP-U3 explicitly mentions RDS support but it's never been investigated as a rockbox target AFAIK
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20:52:36casainhohello :-)
20:53:10casainhoplease help me on this code:
20:53:42casainhoI am debuging it and seeing strang things... like "count" never decrements and always being 255
20:54:13Bouletprobably stuck at line22 :)
20:55:13bluebrotherCan't see anything obvious problematic ... maybe let line 22 do something :)
20:55:17casainhoand addr_buf is incrementing 0x200 at a time
20:55:24bluebrother(so you can watch it ;-)
20:56:01Bouletcasainho, if addr_buf is incrementing then counter should decrement
20:56:08Bouletobviously :)
20:56:12casainhothat code is working correctly if that function is called just to read one sector (count = 1)
20:56:34bluebrotherso what's the problem then? If fails if count > 1?
20:56:42Bouletand what if you call it two times in a row with count = 1 ?
20:56:57Bouletit should not change anything anyways
20:57:30casainhomy bootloader calls it a few times with count = 1... and it mounts the fat partition, even print the checksum of the firmware...
20:57:34 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
20:57:57bluebrotherwell, I can't see start getting incremented in case count is greater than one. So you'd always read the same block
20:58:01Bouletcasainho, where did you find this code, did you write it yourself ?
20:58:18Bouleti don't think the problem is in the code itself but more in the way you use the SD protocol
20:58:21casainhobut when it prints on LCD "loading" it calls that function with count = 255 and crashes the system :-(
20:58:37Bouletmaybe you want to read to many blocks ?
20:58:38bluebrotherhow exactly does it crash?
20:58:42casainhoI write it but I used another library
20:59:21bertriklike bluebrother said, start should be incremented somewhere in the loop
20:59:22Bouleti thought the SD protocol had a command READ_MULTIPLE_BLOCKS or something ?
20:59:27bluebrotherfirst, when reading 255 sectors, is buf big enough to hold all those sectors? Second, I still think you'd read the same sector 255 times.
20:59:29Bouletthis code does not seem to be very optimized
20:59:49bertrikfirst make it work correctly, then make it work fast ... :)
21:00:02casainhohere one image of the crashing:
21:00:05bluebrotherwhich means, in case of the bootloader, you load the first 512 bytes of the firmware, then do that again. Jump to the firmware. You have 0x200 bytes ...
21:01:07bluebrotherincrement start at the end of the while loop by one
21:01:09casainhoBoulet: I already tried the READ_MULTIPLE_BLOCKS (I am suing SPI BUS) and it didn't work, so, I did like this as I saw on other librariies ;-)
21:01:29 Quit Self-Perfection ("Konversation terminated!")
21:01:32casainhobluebrother: do you see something worng?
21:01:43bluebrothercasainho: did you do a memory dump after the loading / crash?
21:01:55 Quit nibbler__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:01:57casainhobluebrother: no, I didn't
21:02:17bluebrothercasainho: well, you never increment start, so every run of the while loop uses the same value. I.e. it reads the same sector again and again.
21:02:26bertrikcasainho, just add a start++ near the end of the loop and try again :P
21:02:42bluebrotherI bet you'll see some pattern of 0x200 bytes in memory :)
21:02:43casainhobluebrother: should I expect to see addr_buf incrementing one by one value? because it is incementing by 0X200 every itme
21:03:15bertrikit's normal to see it increase by 0x200 for each iteration of the outer loop
21:03:17bluebrothercasainho: you sure you see each of the for loops? I bet you only see its value before and after that loop
21:04:49casainhowell... I had breakpoints on the first if and else of the loop, so, I think it were breaking each one time of the loop, no?
21:05:29Bouletcasainho, look at the code, there is this for loop line 24 ..
21:05:39bluebrotherwell, then lines 24 .. 28 will increment that pointer by 0x200 bytes, won't it?
21:05:43Bouletaddr_buf is incremented in that loop
21:06:04bluebrotherif you break before and after those lines, well ...
21:06:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:06:42Bouletcasainho i doubt the code respect the SD card protocol
21:07:02Bouleti don't see how it is possible that it works in case of SDHC for example
21:07:25Bouletat least, increment start
21:07:26bertrikBoulet, oh why wouldn't it?
21:07:46Bouletincrement start, that's all
21:08:12Bouletbut also, you should use the read_multiple_blocks command and place it outside that loop
21:08:14Bouletwill be much faster
21:08:38casainhobluebrother: yeah, right :-) sorry, I didn't got it before :-) 512 times, should be the 0x200
21:09:51casainhoBoulet: ok, but first I need to get it working, and this code is scheme is working on another libraries:
21:11:17casainhobluebrother: I was mistaken
21:11:22Bouletcasainho, i am curious, on what hardware are you developing ?
21:11:25casainhothat code works when count = 0
21:11:53bluebrotherwith count = 0 it shouldn't do anything.
21:11:58Boulethaha :)
21:12:05casainhoBoulet: on Rockbox Player:
21:12:09Bouletdoes it work with one ?
21:12:15bluebrotherthat while loop is always false and it will just return 0.
21:13:17*bluebrother wonders why the hilighting of that paste was set to diff ...
21:14:22casainhobluebrother: thanks :-) −− but with start++; it kind of crashes later... :-(
21:14:58Bouletmaybe buf is invalid then...
21:14:59bluebrotherand how does that crash look? Can you dump the memory and verify it read more than one sector correctly to RAM?
21:15:30casainhobluebrother: ok, my mistake, it works when count = 1 ( I were seing the value of count inside the loop, after decrementing - strange because it should decrement on the end, right?)
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21:16:17casainhobluebrother: but the count−− is diferent from −−count, no?
21:16:23bluebrotherthat loop is while(count−−). This means that count has to be decremented, then checked.
21:17:09bluebrotheri−− and −−i are different.
21:17:10kugelit's checked, then decremented, then the loop is exectured
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21:17:26kugelmaybe you should use do {} while
21:17:28bluebrotheri−− will return i, then decrement it. −−i will decrement i, then return the result (i.e. i-1)
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21:18:05casainhooh, okok :-)
21:18:17casainhowell, the problem: count = 256 the first time
21:18:22bluebrotherwhat's the advantage of using do ... while? If count = 1 the first loop will run. As expected.
21:18:32casainhoall other times, count stays equal to 255!!!
21:18:41kugelcasainho: why? that function should never be called with 256, right?
21:18:45bluebrotherno. count is an unsigned int, so 0 - 1 != 255.
21:18:52kugel(or am I wrong?)
21:19:45casainhoand I see addr_buf incrementing every time by 0x200, wichi is correct
21:19:51bluebrotherand if you call it starting with 1, you'll get something like while(1), i = 0
21:20:07bluebrotherthus the loop runs exactly one time. Which is what you want.
21:20:08casainhoI just don't understand why count just decrement from 256 to 255 and after never more decrements :-(
21:20:09Bouletcan you show us who calls this function ? :)
21:20:12kugelcasainho: like this
21:20:41casainhotranfer() on fat.c
21:20:44*bluebrother doesn't see a reason in converting to do .. while except confusing casainho
21:20:48kugelbut your while should work too, since count isn't evaluated in the inner loop
21:20:49Bouletkugel, the previous implementation is better i see :)
21:21:21bluebrotherkugel: you can't return; on a function that expects to return a value ...
21:21:27casainhoso, please say, shound'nt count decrement by one every time?
21:21:46bluebrotheryes, _if_ count > 1
21:21:50kugelbluebrother: right, return 0; then
21:22:21bluebrotherthe compiler might have optimized the loop. Thus you possibly won't see the decrement in that case
21:22:55*bluebrother still thinks this extra check is useless if it can be done implicitly
21:23:06kugelwhile(count−−) should work perfectly actually
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21:25:44*amiconn reminds kugel that postincrements/decrements in a condition check are less efficient than preincrements/decrements
21:25:54casainhobluebrother: if I put count as static, do you think I can see it decrementing?
21:26:10kugelamiconn: "reminds"? I never knew that
21:26:26bluebrothercasainho: why should that change anything? That won't work.
21:26:33casainhoI think is very strange that I see count decrementing from 256 to 255 and never more...
21:27:00casainhobecause if count never reaches 0, then system crashes, no?
21:27:04bluebrotherwell, you sure the function actually exits?
21:27:10amiconnkugel: Preincrement/decrement means the condition flags can be set within the same instruction that does the increment/decrement
21:27:15mcuelenaerecasainho: have you find out what precise instruction 'crashes' the device?
21:27:28casainhomcuelenaere: no, I don't
21:27:41kugelamiconn: so it saves 1 instruction?
21:27:56amiconnAlso, a tail controlled loop is more efficient than a head controlled loop (slightly smaller & faster, saves either a branch or a second condition check)
21:28:16mcuelenaerecasainho: IMO the easiest and best way to solve this is to find this by doing step-by-step debugging..
21:28:19bertrikyay, so it crashes faster ...
21:28:20amiconnkugel: At least one, sometimes more (depending on gcc's mood)
21:28:22Bouletamiconn oh really ?
21:28:42Bouleton ARM cpus ?
21:28:57amiconnTail loop should be faster on almost all cpus.
21:29:29bluebrothershouldn't compilers optimize that anyway?
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21:29:55kugelamiconn: I read about tail loops being more efficient actually, but I never examined exactly why this is
21:30:02amiconnbluebrother: They probably should. Whether they do is a completely different matter. Check what gcc produces...
21:30:05casainhomcuelenaere: oh, but that can be 256 * 256 times :-(
21:30:21mcuelenaerethen try doing this call with count=3 or so
21:30:35amiconnThe pre vs. post different due to flag setting doesn't apply to all supported architectures. It applies to coldfire and arm, but not to SH
21:30:36 Quit {phoenix} (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:30:38bluebrotherhaven't checked gcc for that though I assumed it's kinda decent in that aspect ... should give it a look.
21:30:58bluebrotherat least the compiler at work does this optimizations.
21:31:02amiconnbluebrother: gcc is sometimes decent and often crappy
21:31:13mcuelenaerecasainho: and can't you 'fast-forward' the 512-byte copy loop by placing a breakpoint after it?
21:31:29amiconnI've almost never seen it convert a head loop into a tail loop
21:31:47bluebrotherwow. I'm ... impressed :(
21:32:07Bouletamiconn, for a loop like this one it is not a big deal
21:32:15amiconnkugel: There is either a size or a speed advantage for a tail loop, depending on which implementation gcc chooses
21:32:31kugelamiconn: is the paste I posted more effecient (regardless of the post/pre-increment)?
21:32:56kugeli.e. with tail loop, but with if(!count) before
21:33:04amiconnFor a head loop, it either needs to duplicate the condition check (one at loop entry, the other at the end of the loop), then it's larger, but equally fast as the tail loop
21:33:29casainhomcuelenaere: yes, I tried that and I miss what line make the system crash :-(
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21:34:00amiconnThe other option is to not duplicate the condition, but put a branch in front of the loop that branches to the condition check at the end. No extra space needed, but the first iteration is slower (2 extra branches)
21:34:07bluebrotheramiconn: can't it branch to the loop head at the end and then branch from there to the instruction after the end?
21:36:25casainhoI did "static int count"; and count = count1; and then I can see count decementing... :-)
21:36:47Bouletyou can just do volatile...
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21:39:02kugelcount is a parameter, right?
21:39:18kugelso, you can't magically change the storage type, or you copy it
21:40:09kugels/storage/whatever is appropriate :P
21:40:12bluebrotheryou can "magically" change the prototype of the function ...
21:41:08casainhoI am seing the code crashing with count being less than 200...
21:41:17casainhoI will now try to get the exact value
21:41:28bluebrothercheck where the output buffer points to
21:41:34casainhobluebrother: and I don't know how to dump the memory...
21:42:54casainhobluebrother: points to here: 0x20000200
21:43:09bluebrotheris that valid RAM?
21:43:12casainhowhich I think is strange, since my SD Ram strats at 0x20000000
21:43:36casainhowell, this code is working if count = 1....
21:43:41bluebrotheryou're in the bootloader trying to load the main binary, right?
21:44:08casainhobluebrother: right, it hangs when says "loading"...
21:44:31casainhobefore it even prints model name and checksum of firmware...
21:44:42bluebrotherwell. Have you tried loading two sectors and dumping them somewhere?
21:44:48kugelthat just means the 1st 8byte are read correctly
21:45:01bluebrotherI really doubt that you have an issue with that code.
21:45:04kugelbut you already said you can read the first sector, so that's meaningless
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21:45:15bluebrotherno, it must have read the FAT before ... plus filesystem entries
21:45:19 Nick beertrik is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
21:45:37kugelhm, no, if the checksum matched, it read the fat too, yes
21:45:54bluebrotherit _has_ to read the FAT to access the file ...
21:46:15kugelsuccessfully, I mean
21:46:18bluebrotherunless you ensure the file is always located at the same sector. Which I'm rather sure isn't the case here.
21:46:31casainhohere is the memory map file:
21:46:55casainhoI would like to know if 0x20000200 is the buf address...
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21:47:25bluebrotheryou can't tell that from the map.
21:47:32casainhoall I can say, is that here where it crashes, is the first time count > 1...
21:47:53casainhobut, at least know if there is some program code on that address?
21:48:03bluebrothertry reading two sectors with that function and check if the data matches the data on disk.
21:48:03casainhoor if 0x20000200 can be wrong?
21:48:32kugelI don't see how that's wrong if the first sectore is transferred
21:48:43bluebrotherwell, you try to load the main binary. That means you most likely want to overwrite the complete RAM, except that part where you've put your bootloader to run
21:48:43amiconnWhere in memory is the bootloader located?
21:49:55bluebrotherthe bootloader is somewhere in that memory range you seem to be writing to.
21:49:56kugelhehe, I'm ams sansa spoiled where the bootloader is in iram, so we just copy carelessly to ram start :/
21:49:59casainhoamiconn: bootloader is on the begining...
21:50:16kugelyou should of course not override the bootloader, I think
21:50:21kugeloverwrite even
21:50:25Bagderkugel: this guy has "iram" too I'm quite sure
21:50:36casainhoah... so the load_firmware() copy the code?
21:50:38bluebrotherthe map shows 0x1000 bytes iram
21:51:13kugelBagder: do you know if it's used by the bootloader?
21:51:13Bagdercasainho: it ... loads ... firmware !
21:51:14casainhoeheh - I didn't know, I didn't understand what load_firware does...
21:51:30bluebrotherload firmware?
21:51:46*bluebrother wonders if Rockbox contains any sensible function names at all
21:51:47casainhobluebrother: yes, the load_firmware()
21:51:52Bagderkugel: since casainho writes the lot it certainly could
21:51:58kugelload_firmware is one of the few functions that actually has a very descriptive name
21:52:19casainhobut I didn't understand that it overwrite the RAM
21:52:25casainhoI didn't realize
21:52:36casainhowell, so, I must work it on
21:52:37kugelanyway, I never claimed he doesn't. I just wanted to note, that he shouldn't overwrite the bootloader if it's in the same location
21:52:43Unhelpfulkugel: many of them are descriptive if you're used to POSIX
21:52:44*Bagder will not ask where casainho thought the firmware would go...
21:53:19casainhoBagder: well, to a different address, right? :-)
21:53:38Bagdercasainho: well, you decide that address so you better make sure they're not the same
21:54:06casainhohmmm, so, it's here where I define? : loadbuffer = (unsigned char*)0x20000000; /* DRAMORIG */
21:54:35kugelcasainho: the code can't work if the bootloader is at this location
21:54:49bluebrotherwell, you basically make the buffer start at the begin of the RAM −− where the code you're currently executing is located ...
21:54:52casainhokugel: yes, bootloader is right on that address ;-)
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21:55:46casainhoso, loadbuffer should be placed at a "safe" address, maybe after the bootloader? and is just that? will the load_firmware then work as expected?
21:55:54kugelcasainho: you either need to put the bootloader into another location (like IRAM, or at the end of the RAM, or something like that), or load the firmware to an address with a proper offset
21:56:13Bagder"as expected" is tricky since you apaprently didn't know what to expect...
21:56:28kugelhe presumably expects the rockbox main menu :)
21:56:30bluebrothercasainho: well, the firmware you're loading has to be linked for running from that address too
21:56:42bluebrotherthe main menu has to be earned :P
21:56:45casainhoBagder: eheh :-) I expect it to run the firmware, magically :-)
21:57:00*bluebrother throws some magic in the channel
21:57:01Bagdermagic we like!
21:57:18*bluebrother still has some magic questions about OS X
21:57:34casainhobluebrother: ok, I think I can define that on
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21:58:05Bagdercasainho: I would recommend you to use that address for the firmware and instead move away the bootloader
21:58:16bluebrotherand you need to jump to the correct address after loading. Obviously ...
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21:58:30Bagderor possibly copy stuff over the beginning later
21:58:44bluebrotherbah, who cares about wasted RAM? ;-)
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21:59:01casainhobluebrother: how that jump is done, defined?
21:59:11bluebrothersomewhere in the code :)
21:59:29casainhobluebrother: but don't the load_firmware do it?
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21:59:48casainhois not the kernel_entry()?
21:59:51bluebrotherpossibly. I'm not familiar with that code.
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22:00:59casainhoBagder: okok - I think I will put bootloader at end of SD RAM...
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22:11:35casainhoand yes, I am expecting to see the rockbox main menu!! :-) −− I don't have keys nor audio dac IC :-)
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22:24:10gartral1subversion tracker is down >.>
22:24:25Bagdersubversion tracker?
22:24:59gartral1the subversion panel on the site
22:25:16gartral1i was just looking for a better word for it...
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22:27:56gartral1the expanded ones are still working...
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22:29:13Bagderthe svn server is unreachable atm it seems
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22:41:56BouletI don't have this olimex ARM board
22:42:12Bouletcan i use QEMU to run and develop on rockbox ?
22:45:13gartral1i wouldnt, Boulet, qemu is painfully slow!
22:46:02BagderBoulet: if you want to work on the app side of rockbox you can just run a simulator
22:46:05Bouletgartral1, i presume i can compile rockbox on cygwin ?
22:46:33Bouleti'd like to have the GUI working too
22:46:37gartral1yes, theres a page in the wiki on how too
22:47:51Bouletdo you all develop on this using actual hardware ?
22:48:34Bouleti am looking at wiki right now
22:49:35gartral1yes, but keep in mind, the olimex board you were talking about was for the Rockbox Player, we as a whole work on quite a few more player than just that one
22:50:47Bouletyou are not limited to that one Atmel ARM9 i presume...
22:51:38Bagderthe svn stuff on the front page is back
22:51:41Bouleti see, so there are UI simulators
22:51:45gartral1take a look at the "releases"
22:52:13Bouletyes i can see them all
22:52:16gartral1yay, what went wrong?
22:52:28Bouletand i guess it is easy to create a new UI simulator for a new device ?
22:53:03gartral1those are alll the hardware DAPs we currently have little, or no problems with rockbox on...
22:53:22gartral1i dont know, ive never tryed... though i woulld assume so
22:53:53BagderBoulet: yes it is
22:54:06Bouletgartral1, but do you always cross compile to the ARM platform or is it preferable to use native x86 code when you debug ?
22:54:30Bagderthe simulators are not cross-compiled
22:54:52Bouletyes that makes sense for the simulator
22:54:52Bagderthey're native sdl-using applications
22:54:56Bouletbut for the code itself ?
22:54:57gartral1i know very little of the way the sims work
22:55:10Bagderfor target stuff you cross-compile
22:55:40Bouletah ok. mmmh so, how is the arm code executed on the native platform ?
22:55:55gartral1its not
22:56:08gartral1you compile for sim, or hardware when you build..
22:56:32Bouletok, so you don't debug in arm mode on your PC
22:56:50BagderBoulet: well, what do you mean with "debug" ?
22:57:11Bagderand not all our targets use arm
22:57:28Bouleti mean that you don't compile to ARM and have the ARM code "simulated" on the PC ?
22:57:39Bouletyou only compile to ARM when you want to burn on an actual device ?
22:57:49n1sfor some bugs the sims are great for debugging even if they are just sims
22:58:03n1sBoulet: yes
22:58:11n1ssimulator != emulator
22:58:47gartral1we could use an emulator for some problems though...
22:59:07Bouletwhat about QEMU? despite the fact that it is slow
22:59:11Bouletdo some people use it too ?
22:59:34Bagdersince there's no qemu setup for any of our targets
23:00:22Bouletso, when you find a new device that you wish to port rockbox to, you need to write specific drivers for audio, lcd, and other low-level stuff ?
23:01:06Bouletand push buttons, and potentiometers...
23:01:13Bouletthat's pretty cool :)
23:02:09 Join casainho [0] (n=chatzill@
23:02:10gartral1Boulet: have you taken a look through the getting started segment of the forums?
23:02:20casainhohello again :-)
23:02:33Bouleti haven't looked at the forums yet, i am looking at FAQs
23:03:01Bouletit looks like i could do developpement under cygwin, are there any restrictions compared to doing developpement under linux ?
23:03:02 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection)
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23:03:37casainhomy bootloader first prints on LCD a checsum: 2603ebf and later it lprints "loading rockbox.xxxx" and after prints "Sum: 2603bfc", "Bad cheksum"
23:03:49gartral1nope, cygwin is just alinux overlayed ontop of windows...
23:03:52 Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded)
23:04:05casainhowhy could I do wrong?
23:04:05Bouletthanks gartral1
23:04:17gartral1casainho: what device, what version bootloader?
23:04:58casainhogartral1: Rockbox Player:
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23:05:46Bagdercasainho: well, you produce the binary and the checksum code so you better verify the two and see which one is wrong
23:05:46 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
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23:06:11casainhohow can I do that?
23:06:34Bagderuse your intelligence to debug
23:06:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:06:50kugelgrr, since when you need perl for compiling rockbox?
23:07:13Bagdersince many years
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23:07:26casainhoI don't know how... and I taught the first checksum it prints were already the value from loaded file from SD Card...
23:07:39 Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded)
23:07:51casainhoI don't know how Rockbox details works...
23:07:56Bagderyes one is what is stored in the file and the other is what you calculate after load
23:08:05kugelBagder: I remember I could build it without some time ago
23:08:24 Join lymeca [0] (
23:08:39Bagderkugel: only parts of it if so
23:08:51gartral1casainho: im going off on a limb here, but, you might try reinstalling he bootloader...
23:08:52Bagderthe lang system used perl day 1
23:08:53casainhoBagder: so, it's all automatic, no?
23:09:05Bagdercasainho: what?
23:09:06 Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded)
23:09:23kugelBagder: "", since r19169
23:09:32 Join lymeca [0] (
23:09:32casainhowell, I didn't generated any checksum...
23:09:54Bagderkugel: yes, but as I said genlang was perl when first committed many years ago and that is needed
23:10:10kugelhm, I don't know how I compiled without perl then
23:11:29kugelI compiled it on windows once, using msys and WinARM, and I've never installed perl on windows
23:11:32casainhoBagder: please help
23:11:46Bagdercasainho: what more can I say?
23:12:12gartral1casainho: ide try reinstalling the bootloader...
23:12:50Bagdercasainho: you've selected a checksum method somehow
23:13:12Bagder"scramble" is typically used
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23:13:50Bagderand if you don't know this, there's really no wonder why the codes don't match
23:14:10casainhoBagder: mclunuare did help me on that and I had to change the scramble.c file...
23:15:03casainhoI would like to understand, where the first value of checksum comes from?
23:15:24BagderI already told you
23:15:29Bagderthe first is stored in the file
23:15:33Bagderscramble puts it there
23:15:43Bagderthe other gets calculated after the file has been loaded
23:15:49Bagderit is done to verify that the file is fine
23:16:02casainhoah, okok - I assume scramble is working corrextly
23:16:16casainhookok - thanks, it's clear for me now :-)O
23:17:46casainhoand that problem before were because I were overwritting the bootloader with the firmware :-)
23:18:08BagderI would guess the checksum problem is about length of the image
23:18:14Bagdersince they're so similar
23:18:52casainhooh, I am getting diferent values everytime of the second value :-(
23:19:10casainhobut the first 3 values are always equal: 260xxxx
23:19:37Bagderthen you better figure out why!
23:19:55casainhonow the first was: 2603EFB and second: 2604135
23:20:08casainhookok :-)
23:24:40kugelgrml, I don't get lang.h :/
23:26:05 Quit domonoky1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:28:41mcuelenaereis anyone able to figure out what the STAT pin does in this chip?
23:30:25 Join dabujo [0] (
23:31:16casainhomcuelenaere: Charge Status Output.
23:31:41 Part pyro_maniac
23:32:08*mcuelenaere wonders why they first name it STAT and then CHRG :/
23:32:10mcuelenaerecasainho: thanks
23:33:41casainhowhen on charging, it runs on the LED on figure "Typical Application Diagram"
23:34:02casainhoturns on
23:38:13Bouletwhat is the minimum RAM requirement to run rockbox ?
23:38:24Boulet8MB ?
23:38:29n1sdepends on the target
23:38:34n1ssome have 2MB
23:38:43Bouletrockbox can run on 2MB target ?
23:38:57Bouletwhich one for example ?
23:39:13Bouletthat sounds so small...
23:39:27Bouletlinux kernel, various drivers, busybox ?
23:39:34n1sthe old archos (player/recorder/ondio) models
23:39:40bluebrotherRockbox is not linux
23:39:42n1srockbox is not linux
23:40:26n1salso there's a wip port for the sansa clip, that has 2MB ram too and 320KB iram
23:41:06 Quit lymeca (Connection timed out)
23:41:11Bouletwhat RTOS is it using then ?
23:41:17bluebrotherits own
23:41:31bluebrotherwhy does it need to use a pre-made RTOS?
23:41:33Boulethuah !
23:41:45Bouletbluebrother good question ...
23:41:52Bouletwell it is not based on anything existing ?
23:42:00Bouletsomeone wrote a new OS from scratch, ah ?
23:42:20bluebrotherquoting the front page: "Rockbox is an open source firmware for mp3 players, written from scratch."
23:42:32linuxstbA few hundred people have contributed to Rockbox over the past 6-7 years...
23:43:22Bouletah i can see now, in rockbox/firmware...
23:43:59 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:44:16Bouletreally cool
23:44:48Bouletwhy using its own OS instead of linux ? is it because it is smaller ?
23:45:30Bouletif there is a device that has USB host capability and no wireless, is it possible to write a driver for a wifi-usb-dongle in rockbox ?
23:45:48bluebrotherthe linux kernel is too big and does too much other stuff.
23:45:52BigBambiBecuase linux is a general purpose huge OS
23:46:13Bouleti thought it was getting better and better for embedded systems too (?)
23:46:16bluebrotherRockbox needs a small OS. At best, a scheduler.
23:46:17scorche|shwhy would we want all that other cruft?
23:46:20Bouletie. smaller
23:46:47Bouleti don't know why you would need all that other stuff, good point :)
23:46:52bluebrotherLinux won't run on systems without a MMU iirc −− and almost none of the targets does have one
23:47:04Bouletthere is uclinux for that, isn't it ?
23:47:07mcuelenaereall of the supported targets
23:47:18BigBambiBoulet: Which is still huge
23:47:27bluebrotherif we consider the beast unsupported, yes ;-)
23:47:27BigBambirelativly speaking
23:47:45amiconnAfaik the gigabeat F/X also has a MMU
23:48:06mcuelenaereI think almost all the new ports have a MMU
23:48:13Bouletwhat about in a few years when even the smallest device will have 64MB of ram ?
23:48:21Bouletand MMU
23:48:29scorche|shwhy would we switch when the rockbox kernel is much better for our purposes?
23:48:31bluebrothermy ipod mini will still have neither.
23:48:33BigBambiBoulet: why waste RAM for the sake of it?
23:48:38mcuelenaereBoulet: AFAIK there are currently only 2 targets with 64MB RAM
23:48:39gevaertsWill they? They seem to be getting smaller...
23:48:54BigBambiBoulet: We want RAM to buffer music - the less RAM the worse the battery life
23:49:03mcuelenaereBoulet: a lot of RAM is only needed for HDD targets, and most new have NAND
23:49:53Bouletall valid points hehe ok ok
23:50:07Bouletwait now an other question
23:50:24Bouletcan you reuse linux drivers in your kernel ?
23:50:29Bouletor port them very easily ?
23:50:30mcuelenaerenot without adjusting
23:50:36 Join lymeca [0] (
23:50:51Bouleti am especially speaking in the case of device that would have USB host and/or OTG
23:51:16Bouletit looks like it could extend the functionality of rockbox, like this wifi usb-dongle thingy ?
23:51:20bluebrotheryou'd need to have knowledge about the hardware too, which is usually rather limited
23:51:22scorche|shit would require a lot of might be a bit better off just writing your own and using it as a reference for some things
23:51:33mcuelenaereBoulet: you could also do wifi through SD using SDIO
23:51:46Bouletthat's true mcuelenaere
23:52:16Bouletwell USB and SDIO does not have voodoo components outside the MCU
23:52:20bluebrotherwho wants wifi on a dap anyway? At least me wants to play music ...
23:52:29Bouletso even without knowledge of the hardware you can have tons of drivers for those
23:52:46Bouletwifi, bluetooth, who knows
23:52:48BigBambiBoulet: but ultimately Rockbox is a music player - there is no point sacrificing music playback ability for wifi or something else marginal
23:52:50Bouletit is just an example
23:53:08scorche|shBoulet: many of our devices use a proprietary system on a chip..
23:53:13 Join SirFunk_ [0] (
23:53:25n1sbluebrother it could be quite nice for copying music to the player wirelessly and perhaps internet radio :)
23:53:30gartral1wifi on my dap, dependidng, if i could browse the web, maybe, but if it were something like what microsoft set up, where it was just a way too share... nah...
23:53:46BigBambiyes, I think you would struggle to find linux drivers for these daps...
23:53:51BigBambiThey aren't "PC" components
23:54:07Bouletso the main external periphericals you need to work with are push-buttons/LCD/CODEC/Flash and ram ?
23:54:20Bouletnot always USB ?
23:54:20scorche|shthe SoC may be able to perform USBOTG functions, but that doesnt mean we would necessarily know how to use it
23:54:30Bouleti see
23:54:50BigBambiBoulet: just because it is a SoC doesn't mean it doesn't need drivers written
23:54:56BigBambie.g. to make sound come out...
23:54:58mcuelenaere+ it could be disabled in hardware (USB OTG)
23:55:00scorche|shthe hardware we work with can be completely undocumented...this makes things a bit different ;)
23:55:04gartral1as is the case with any sansa at the moment, none have reliable USB under rockbox..
23:55:08Bouletbut if you really wanted to support a usb wifi dongle for example in that olimex hardware, you could, right ?
23:55:33Bouleti mean, porting a linux one into rockbox
23:55:35BigBambiyes, if someone wrote the driver
23:55:36n1swith the right documentation for it probably, yes
23:56:10scorche|shBoulet: like i would probably be better off writing your own driver and using the linux one as a reference instead of porting it, but it depends..
23:56:36Bouleti understand
23:56:52 Quit n1s ()
23:56:52Bouletthank you
23:58:28 Quit SirFunk (Connection timed out)

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