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| 00:34:13 | kugel | JdGordon: speaking of wps code, have you figured the difference between gwps.c and wps-common.c? |
| 00:34:36 | JdGordon | not really... |
| 00:35:22 | JdGordon | I'm going to reaarange things a bit.. i tihnk gwps should be just the music screen, while -cmmon is more for drawing stuff, which i tihnk is close |
| 00:35:36 | * | JdGordon doesnt like the name wps which is being used for the theme engine |
| 00:35:41 | kugel | isn't the wps only drawing? |
| 00:36:09 | kugel | what's left if you seperate drawing from the rest of the wps |
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| 00:36:22 | JdGordon | the wps the screen? no there is all the button and playlist logic |
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| 00:38:10 | kugel | btw, testing FS #8799 is appreciated too :) |
| 00:38:57 | | Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") |
| 00:39:04 | kugel | I think I'll commit it soon'ish, in a month or so, after exams and a -dev ml discussion |
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| 00:47:14 | * | amiconn wonders what's up with gcc |
| 00:47:36 | amiconn | "suggest parentheses around arithmetic in operand of |" wth? |
| 00:47:55 | amiconn | Operator precedence is well defined there... |
| 00:48:43 | saratoga | i guess they figure bitwise stuff is rare enough that explicitly defining precedence is sensible |
| 00:49:44 | amiconn | & takes precendence over | the same way * takes precedence over + in arithmetic |
| 00:49:55 | JdGordon | just because op precendence is defined, doesnt mean they follow it correctly :) |
| 00:50:39 | saratoga | i'm sure they follow it they probably just assume many people dont remember |
| 00:51:29 | amiconn | ...and hence they force knowing people to clutter their code with useless parentheses? .\ |
| 00:52:03 | * | amiconn also found another arm gcc goof in the disassembly of that stuff |
| 00:53:59 | Unhelpful | ugh, so many useless parens, it does it for >>/<< and + as well |
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| 01:05:28 | JdGordon | pixelma: do you think it would be at all useful to be able to give images in .wps files proper names instead of just the single letter id's? |
| 01:06:29 | | Part toffe82 |
| 01:10:54 | pixelma | first reaction: not really because of more typing and might look weird for subimages in bitmap strips but haven't thought about this much. Of course you would be able to adress more than 52 but that's also a limit I didn't hit and is probably not so important anymore since bitmap strips |
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| 01:12:18 | pixelma | might make the wps code a bit more readable though but that will still be in the hands of the author |
| 01:13:17 | Llorean | I think it's something not to worry about for now, unless WPSes end up becoming a lot more complex. |
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| 01:49:04 | amiconn | Using SDL alpha blending works nicely :) |
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| 01:55:16 | Unhelpful | amiconn: what for, greylib? |
| 01:55:32 | amiconn | No, for simulating backlight of colour targets |
| 01:55:45 | soap | a text editor with contextual colouring would make WPS code more readable. "Proper names" for images would make some WPS lines ungodly long. |
| 01:56:07 | amiconn | I now have a patch (it's just a few lines) that dims the image to 1/3 when simulated backlight is off |
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| 01:56:43 | Unhelpful | ah... it would seem usable for greylib as well, you could have the background solid in the "off" color, the foreground solid in the "on" color, and put the grey values in the alpha channel |
| 01:57:30 | amiconn | I'm not sure whether the alpha stuff works that nicely for an 8 bit surface |
| 01:57:38 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:57:57 | Llorean | soap: If we ever got a "WPS editor" GSoC that could be a feature for it. |
| 01:58:03 | amiconn | Hmm, it would mean to switch to a true colour surface ... |
| 01:58:24 | Unhelpful | can you blend 8-bit images to a truecolor surface? |
| 01:58:55 | amiconn | Yes, but only using a single alpha value for the whole source surface |
| 02:00 |
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| 02:28:53 | CToke | Hey, is there anywhere on the wiki that shows the Rockboy average fps on all targets? I checked on the plugin page, but it didn't show it. |
| 02:36:56 | scorche | i am sure that varies between different ROMs, so i would imagine that wouldnt be easy to accomplish |
| 02:41:22 | CToke | Oh, this is true. Are there any recommended tweaks to boost fps besides turning off sound? |
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| 03:00 |
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| 03:02:56 | saratoga | "Clean up watermarking. Watermarks should not be defined by codecs, and should be time rather than space based. Also use much lower watermarks when having flash storage." |
| 03:03:00 | saratoga | isn't this already committed? |
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| 05:01:27 | EvanCarroll | anyone actively working on the view? |
| 05:01:43 | EvanCarroll | (Sansa View*) |
| 05:02:35 | scorche | any progress of that nature is likely to be found in the corresponding thread in the new ports forum |
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| 05:03:11 | EvanCarroll | yea, i checked dead. |
| 05:03:32 | EvanCarroll | I just wrote a letter sansa, that is pretty much all i can do anyway |
| 05:03:42 | EvanCarroll | http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=view&thread.id=10194 |
| 05:04:17 | | Quit Barahir_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 05:04:24 | EvanCarroll | Luckily I don't have one, I just want a modern (still in production) flash mp3 plaayer |
| 05:04:39 | EvanCarroll | i just losot my e280 |
| 05:05:21 | saratoga | EvanCarroll: you should probably look at the Fuze and Clip, since they're newer sandisk players with active ports |
| 05:05:47 | saratoga | the view is quite old now and likely to be discontinued, so I would not count on sandisk taking much interest in it |
| 05:07:48 | | Quit Aurix_Lexico ("Leaving.") |
| 05:07:50 | AlkaSeltzer | will flashing an ipod nano with rockbox still enable it to be used with an FM transmitter designed to plug in through the docking port? |
| 05:08:05 | Llorean | AlkaSeltzer: That depends on the FM transmitter. |
| 05:08:16 | scorche | we dont flash ipods, and that depends on the transmitter as he said |
| 05:09:45 | AlkaSeltzer | OK thanks |
| 05:10:08 | AlkaSeltzer | when you say we, do you mean those that are talking now, or speaking for the channel? |
| 05:10:25 | saratoga | hes talking about rockbox |
| 05:10:28 | Llorean | Rockbox isn't flashed to install it on an iPod |
| 05:10:34 | Llorean | It's just installed to the disk / internal storage. |
| 05:10:42 | AlkaSeltzer | gotcha |
| 05:15:02 | EvanCarroll | saratoga: by active you mean in development and not supported −− It doesn't matter much to me, which player it is, I just want to buy a working player |
| 05:15:24 | saratoga | EvanCarroll: I mean someone is actually working on a port |
| 05:15:37 | saratoga | if you want to buy a working player, buy a supported one |
| 05:15:51 | EvanCarroll | is there a support producting flash player? |
| 05:16:03 | EvanCarroll | production* |
| 05:16:05 | Llorean | No. |
| 05:16:22 | EvanCarroll | right, which is why I wrote a letter to sansa. |
| 05:18:20 | EvanCarroll | fuze looks decent, I prefer long over fat |
| 05:18:38 | saratoga | and why I pointed that sandisk isn't going to care :) |
| 05:19:28 | EvanCarroll | about rockbox in general, or about rockbox on the view as compaired to the fuze? |
| 05:19:44 | Llorean | Both really. |
| 05:20:32 | saratoga | i was mostly thinking of the later, since they stopped updating it almost a year ago |
| 05:20:41 | EvanCarroll | which is their perogative, but pestering them and showing them presence, and a willingness to buy their product if they comply is still the only way you can change that. |
| 05:21:21 | saratoga | "hey, about that product you no longer care about, here are some thoughts ..." |
| 05:22:08 | EvanCarroll | I'm not disputing addressing the View over the Fuze was a mistake, I'm just saying keeping quite will surely accomplish nothing. |
| 05:22:48 | Llorean | Well, Sandisk has more or less already shown us how (un)willing they are to help out. |
| 05:22:49 | saratoga | generally complaining isn't preferable to doing nothing |
| 05:23:00 | saratoga | if you want a port, get to work, otherwise, doing nothing seems sensible |
| 05:23:24 | Chronon | Any ideas why mkamsboot is throwing this: "[ERR] Model name "clip" not found in bootloader.bin"? |
| 05:23:49 | saratoga | Chronon: I think i got that when i feed it the wrong bootloader file |
| 05:24:08 | EvanCarroll | saratoga: I can do database, I can do high level scripting languages, I can do some C −− I've never done any asm, and I don't have the slightest clue on how to write a driver. |
| 05:24:56 | saratoga | EvanCarroll: I wasn't really asking, just pointing out something |
| 05:25:03 | EvanCarroll | and when it comes to private companies supporting open source, bitching is *always* preferable. |
| 05:25:07 | Chronon | hmm. . . I definitely chose the clip in the configure script |
| 05:25:11 | saratoga | Chronon: I think its the .sansa file not .bin ? |
| 05:25:21 | Chronon | Okay. Cheers |
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| 07:09:40 | rockboxnewbie | Can anyone in here give me some help, I am at a loss of what to do with intergrating a patch into pictureflow. |
| 07:12:04 | | Quit Anges (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 07:19:43 | scorche | rockboxnewbie: and what loss would that be? |
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| 07:26:00 | rockboxnewbie | I am thinking of install v15 patch, http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8335, for pictureflow. First would you recommend it, and seconly how to you apply the .diff file to the pictureflow.rock file |
| 07:26:54 | krazykit | you can't apply a diff to a .rock file |
| 07:27:15 | rockboxnewbie | Ok, so how do you go about it? |
| 07:27:17 | krazykit | you need to apply it to the source and build it yourself |
| 07:27:45 | rockboxnewbie | Where do I get the source file for pictureflow |
| 07:27:55 | scorche | rockboxnewbie: there are a number of pages in the wiki dedicated to this |
| 07:28:13 | scorche | check out the "for developers" section in the documentation index |
| 07:30:49 | rockboxnewbie | Like this page? http://code.google.com/p/pictureflow/ |
| 07:30:59 | rockboxnewbie | Oh, sorry, let me check somewhere else |
| 07:31:14 | scorche | rockbox wiki.. |
| 07:34:49 | rockboxnewbie | No luck |
| 07:35:18 | rockboxnewbie | Could it be this file on the google page, http://pictureflow.googlecode.com/files/pictureflow-0.1.0.tar.gz |
| 07:35:38 | scorche | what are you going on about? |
| 07:36:18 | rockboxnewbie | I am trying to find the source file as your described. |
| 07:36:25 | rockboxnewbie | you described. |
| 07:36:38 | scorche | [23:27:56] <scorche> rockboxnewbie: there are a number of pages in the wiki dedicated to this |
| 07:36:38 | scorche | [23:28:14] <scorche> check out the "for developers" section in the documentation index |
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| 09:08:00 | amiconn | I'm undecided which method for determining the remote screendump filename is better: |
| 09:08:15 | amiconn | (1) Clone and modify the main screendump filename. Makes it clear which dumps belong together, but risks overwriting old remote dumps in certain situations (at least on targets w/o RTC). |
| 09:09:25 | nm_ | Hey people |
| 09:09:40 | nm_ | I think I might have bricked my Gigabeat S |
| 09:09:54 | amiconn | (2) Determine the remote screendump filename independently. No risk of overwriting, but also no strict relation between main & remote screendump name (again mostly affects non-RTC targets) |
| 09:10:10 | nm_ | After flashing a dual boot nk.bin, it rebooted to recovery mode |
| 09:10:38 | nm_ | It goes until it asks to connect to a PC, where it doesn't recognise that it's plugged in. |
| 09:11:06 | | Nick Bagderr is now known as B4gder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 09:11:49 | linuxstb | nm_: You need to run sendfirm (or the Toshiba updater) to install an nk.bin again. |
| 09:13:12 | nm_ | I can't because neither the gigabeat, nor my computer recognise that it's plugged in |
| 09:13:37 | nm_ | Oh, wait |
| 09:13:41 | nm_ | motherfucker |
| 09:13:47 | nm_ | Something was wrong with the cable |
| 09:13:50 | nm_ | Sorry |
| 09:13:55 | nm_ | I feel like an idiot |
| 09:13:59 | nm_ | I just tried another one |
| 09:14:03 | nm_ | oh wow |
| 09:14:04 | * | B4gder washes nm_'s mouth with soap |
| 09:14:30 | nm_ | I can't express how I feel in words |
| 09:14:46 | * | linuxstb thinks soap may object to that |
| 09:15:09 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 09:15:16 | nm_ | Windows 7 makes a cute noise when something is plugged/unplugged |
| 09:17:07 | | Join n1s [0] (n=nils@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 09:19:03 | nm_ | Okay, I don't have Rockbox working, but at least the original firmware works again |
| 09:19:28 | linuxstb | nm_: Which version of the original firmware are you running? |
| 09:20:03 | nm_ | I've got no idea, whichever one came in the ISO on the wiki |
| 09:20:15 | nm_ | I used mknkboot with a bootloader I compiled from svn |
| 09:20:29 | nm_ | And sent it with sendfirm |
| 09:20:40 | nm_ | I'm going to repeat the process with this new, working usb cable |
| 09:22:52 | nm_ | Gah |
| 09:22:59 | JdGordon | amiconn: is there any reason the screenshots actually need to be "linked" between screens? |
| 09:23:39 | nm_ | Same problem I had yesterday, I've sent the modified nk.bin, unplugged the USB cable, it reboots, the bar fills, but it stop on the windows mobile screen |
| 09:28:01 | amiconn | JdGordon: What do you mean? I think that linked filenames make it easier to determine which main & remote dumps belong together. On non-RTC targets, screendumps are numbered. But if you main screendump files 0001 and 0002 already lying around, doing another dump would give you main dump 0003 but remote dump 0001 if they're not linked |
| 09:29:26 | JdGordon | yeah, but its fairly easy to figure out which is the one you want by either looking at it, or the file dates... |
| 09:29:29 | amiconn | And on target I don't see another way than taking both dumps at once. We only have one signal to trigger screendumps. What would be possible though is to select which screens should be dumped on usb detect: main, remote, or both. This selection would then forbid the filenames to be linked though |
| 09:29:56 | JdGordon | na, thats extra complication, I wouldnt bother |
| 09:30:07 | amiconn | JdGordon: On non-RTC there are no real dates (only on target of course) |
| 09:30:20 | JdGordon | we could use the current tick for the filename instead of the number... |
| 09:30:46 | | Quit nibbler_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:31:30 | | Quit z35 ("Leaving") |
| 09:31:55 | JdGordon | anyway, I dont think having different filenames is a problem |
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| 09:34:54 | linuxstb | amiconn: What about using new names, something like "XXXXX_main.bmp" and "XXXXX_remote.bmp", with the same number/date ? |
| 09:35:50 | amiconn | For date it's easy, but not for number. It would require to check both names with a given number for existence to not risk overwriting a dump |
| 09:36:25 | amiconn | That's my concern in (1) - of course there would be a part which determines main and remote dump (in either case) |
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| 09:37:20 | JdGordon | would it be possible to combine the 2 images into one bmp? |
| 09:38:07 | GodEater_ | that's a better idea imo |
| 09:39:16 | amiconn | It'd be either very difficult, or require to switch to 16 bit dumps for mono/grey displays as well. It would also look crap |
| 09:39:31 | amiconn | What to fill the empty corner with? |
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| 09:40:52 | n1s | please leave them as separate images, it would be a pain to make screenshots fro the manual if they were combined |
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| 09:46:54 | JdGordon | how would people feel about commiting 9886 (wps ram usge rework) in its current state once the buffer size is made sane? its about 50% of the final patch but its starting to get big and easier its to review in little peices (assuming anyone wants to give it a once over?) |
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| 09:48:49 | nm_ | n1s: You were able to help me the other day, you mind giving me a little help with my Gigabeat S? |
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| 09:54:05 | linuxstb | amiconn: Is it a problem to check both filenames? |
| 09:54:46 | n1s | nm_: can't now, gtg |
| 09:56:02 | GodEater_ | nm_: the S really isn't a supported target yet |
| 09:56:03 | nm_ | Cool, no problem |
| 09:56:32 | nm_ | GodEater_:Yeah, i'm aware of that, however I'm sick of MTP and Windows |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:31:38 | amiconn | linuxstb: It would require special code just for screendump, which should rather be kept small as it's not a major feature. |
| 10:32:09 | jhMikeS | changes to tools/configure alone don't trigger builds? hmm. |
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| 10:46:03 | cool_walking_ | Does anyone know what "dir" and "daily" commands SimpleGuideToCompiling is referring to? It seems to have assumed Cygwin (despite linking to the various other guides for VMware, coLinux, etc.), which has no "daily" or "dir" commands AFAIK. |
| 10:49:57 | nm_ | daily isn't a command, and substitute dir with ls |
| 10:50:34 | nm_ | mind linking the article? |
| 10:50:53 | cool_walking_ | http://rockbox.org/wiki/SimpleGuideToCompiling |
| 10:51:07 | cool_walking_ | I think it's just talking nonsense, so I'm gonna blow it away. |
| 10:51:25 | nm_ | It didn't make much sense to me either |
| 10:51:42 | nm_ | I'd suggest following the guide on setting up cygwin, and wing it from there |
| 10:51:57 | cool_walking_ | I'm not following it, just editing it to make it make sense. |
| 10:51:57 | nm_ | If you have a basic idea on how to compile a package |
| 10:52:01 | nm_ | Ah |
| 10:59:19 | BigBambi | cool_walking_: I think it was an alias is an ancient version of something |
| 10:59:29 | BigBambi | But yes, it should go |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:16 | nm_ | My cygwin $PATH variable includes the default windows binary directories, and dir works fine |
| 11:00:16 | cool_walking_ | cool |
| 11:02:02 | nm_ | And, for some reason, it included the arm cross compiler directory, which was nice, it's hard to edit /etc/profile without a root account lol |
| 11:02:09 | cool_walking_ | Well I don't have access to Cygwin right now, but I think I can do alright from memory, and what's there currently is useless anyway. |
| 11:02:35 | nm_ | It's good practice to use native POSIX compatible commands anyway |
| 11:02:59 | linuxstb | amiconn: Ah yes, I forgot it was a generic function... |
| 11:03:07 | nm_ | Who knows what kind of things could go wrong using windows native binaries from within bash |
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| 11:27:14 | havien | brb doing a global upgrade |
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| 11:40:54 | cool_walking_ | Is it alright to leave the nomenclature "Bleeding Edge"? I actually think it sounds better and less ambiguous than "current build". |
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| 11:58:22 | BigBambi | cool_walking_: It does sound less reliable though |
| 11:58:51 | BigBambi | cool_walking_: i.e. I almost expect something labelled bleeding esge to fail, and that isn't usually the case with current builds |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:44 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 12:02:00 | ze | bleeding edge isn't cutting edge enough! maybe you should make it dismembered edge |
| 12:02:13 | robin0800 | cool_walking_: It would be nice perhaps to have a time on the daily build or build it always at a set time and say so |
| 12:02:48 | cool_walking_ | I just think "current build" can easily be mistook to mean "current release" or "daily build". |
| 12:02:58 | cool_walking_ | *mistaken |
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| 12:04:13 | BigBambi | robin0800: The daily build is just a current build done at the same time everyday |
| 12:04:43 | BigBambi | cool_walking_: Perhaps - I just thing bleeding edge sounds a bit too much like "use this at your peril" |
| 12:05:05 | BigBambi | *think |
| 12:05:34 | robin0800 | BigBambi: I know but what time ? |
| 12:05:47 | BigBambi | robin0800: 06:00 UTC IIRC |
| 12:05:59 | kadoban | BigBambi: isn't that what they are? the page even says that they "may be buggy or unusable" |
| 12:06:17 | B4gder | 06:00 CET actuall |
| 12:06:20 | B4gder | y |
| 12:06:35 | robin0800 | BigBambi: Could that be added to the page? |
| 12:06:36 | BigBambi | kadoban: That very usually isn't the case, and normally the first thing we do is tell people to use the current build |
| 12:06:45 | BigBambi | B4gder: Half right then :) |
| 12:07:19 | B4gder | yeah, and they take perhaps an hour so the last ones are done at 06:00 UTC! ;-) |
| 12:07:24 | cool_walking_ | The current page pretty much says that anyway. It (inexplicably IMO) advocates the Daily Build over the Bleeding Edge. I'd think the Daily Build would have more chance of having a bug, because Bleeding Edge could already have fixed it. |
| 12:07:29 | BigBambi | The daily build is only useful for archiving and on the rare occasion when the current build is broken (and normally only for 5 minutes) |
| 12:07:41 | cool_walking_ | "that" being "use this at your peril" |
| 12:07:56 | gevaerts | cool_walking_: that doesn't follow... |
| 12:08:29 | BigBambi | robin0800: Why does it matter? |
| 12:09:38 | gevaerts | cool_walking_: any single revision has the same chance of being broken. Since the daily build is not hand-picked in any way the probability of it being broken is exactly the same as that of the latest current build |
| 12:09:53 | BigBambi | Exactly |
| 12:10:14 | robin0800 | BigBambi: Easy to see what has changed since it was built, though now I know its 06.00 I can do it |
| 12:10:15 | cool_walking_ | Well if it's the same I'm going to prefer Bleeding Edge, because it has more features. |
| 12:10:23 | BigBambi | And a broken current build is usually fixed very quickly |
| 12:10:29 | B4gder | well, doing the maths correctly actually not all have the same risk... |
| 12:10:34 | BigBambi | robin0800: Why are you using the daily build anyway? |
| 12:10:41 | B4gder | but perhaps I should shutup ;-) |
| 12:12:42 | BigBambi | cool_walking_: This is my point, I don't understand why a) anyone uses the daily build over the current build (unless at that exact time the current build is broken - rare) and b) why it says anywhere to use daily over current build - it shouyldn't |
| 12:12:44 | robin0800 | BigBambi: I don't Perhaps now we have release perhaps we don't need daily any more Use Release or Current? |
| 12:12:49 | BigBambi | "it" being the site |
| 12:12:59 | BigBambi | robin0800: It has been like that for ages |
| 12:13:08 | BigBambi | We have always said use current not daily |
| 12:13:26 | BigBambi | The release doesn't change that |
| 12:13:59 | robin0800 | BigBambi: Do we still need Daily? |
| 12:14:07 | B4gder | do they hurt? |
| 12:14:13 | BigBambi | Rob2222: yes, for archiving |
| 12:14:25 | B4gder | and for easier finding backwards when a bug was introduced |
| 12:14:27 | BigBambi | Rob2222: It helps people narrow down when something broke |
| 12:14:32 | cool_walking_ | twice! |
| 12:14:32 | BigBambi | without building |
| 12:14:57 | BigBambi | robin0800: If you note www.rockbox.org, the link to dailies hasn't been there for ages |
| 12:16:05 | | Join Richlv [0] (n=rich@81.94.235.186) |
| 12:16:07 | robin0800 | BigBambi: The link is on the current build page |
| 12:16:29 | BigBambi | Rob2222: I know. I'm also pretty sure I said www.rockbox.org |
| 12:16:56 | BigBambi | In fact, no they aren't |
| 12:17:06 | BigBambi | The current build page links to the release |
| 12:17:11 | Richlv | hi. is there any known work to support Iriver E-100 ? |
| 12:17:31 | cool_walking_ | Richlv: check the New Ports forum. |
| 12:17:44 | BigBambi | robin0800: I agree with pointing people at the release over the current build, but daily over current build makes no sense |
| 12:18:39 | robin0800 | BigBambi: daily build & voices link on current page |
| 12:18:57 | BigBambi | robin0800: Yes, but not as the "stable link" |
| 12:19:17 | BigBambi | robin0800: They have to be linked from somewhere, otherwise they would be utterly pointless |
| 12:19:49 | BigBambi | robin0800: It doesn't say "the current build might be buggy, get a daily" it says "the current build might be buggy, get the release" |
| 12:20:39 | Richlv | "no a port doesnt look likely.. the main chip has a wonderful iriver branding and we have absolutly no idea about it.. also the firmware image we have is encrypted so we cant get clues from that either" |
| 12:20:43 | Richlv | bleh |
| 12:21:37 | Richlv | "All I really want to be able to do with my E100 is create valid playlists without the proprietary Windows-only software included with the device." |
| 12:21:40 | Richlv | ok, that seriously sucks |
| 12:21:49 | Richlv | cool_walking_, thanks for the pointer |
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| 12:24:04 | mrkiko | Can someone riassume brifly how the qball's player story ended up? |
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| 12:57:14 | cool_walking_ | Is this "Feedback & Thanks" section needed? It seems like the person who wrote it didn't know what a wiki is. |
| 13:00 |
| 13:05:04 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:07:00 | BigBambi | cool_walking_: link? |
| 13:08:33 | cool_walking_ | http://rockbox.org/wiki/SimpleGuideToCompiling |
| 13:09:03 | cool_walking_ | I've saved my changes so far and left it for now. |
| 13:09:22 | cool_walking_ | I think the rest of it still makes sense with my changes. |
| 13:21:51 | BigBambi | cool_walking_: No, I guess not - this page was rather early on (years ago) and the result of some forum troubleshooting, so I guess he thought he'd be nice and stick it in |
| 13:22:05 | Qball | mrkiko: hi |
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| 13:29:14 | cool_walking_ | BigBambi: Okay, out it goes. As do I. |
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| 13:31:46 | kadoban | Are any developers interested in helping me get a plugin submitted? (FS #7369) I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to get it ready, and I'll take initiative with any bug reports and porting to new targets if I can. |
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| 13:37:48 | BigBambi | kadoban: Looks cool. Keep trying to attract attention :) |
| 13:39:26 | mrkiko | kadoban: I can't help you. Aniway, what does the plugin ? |
| 13:40:12 | kadoban | BigBambi: thanks :) |
| 13:40:16 | BigBambi | mrkiko: The flyspray entry explains that, unsurprisingly |
| 13:40:28 | kadoban | mrkiko: it's a plugin for playing Go, or recording/viewing Go games |
| 13:41:05 | mrkiko | kadoban: thank you |
| 13:41:53 | moos | kadoban: is there any missing new target? |
| 13:41:57 | Qball | mrkiko little done. I tried getting more button info but that failed |
| 13:42:34 | Qball | there are still issues with it not starting in usefull state |
| 13:42:35 | kadoban | moos: the only current target it doesn't work on is the player, as far as I know. |
| 13:42:45 | kadoban | and it can't work on that, ever. so it's all good |
| 13:43:11 | Qball | and shutdown leaves a half drawn screen from time to time. |
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| 13:43:22 | moos | kadoban: then very nice, and you made the manual section...looks indeed good here, sure that will be in soon ;) |
| 13:43:54 | kadoban | moos: :) thank you. i hope so |
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| 13:45:08 | * | moos is tempted to commit it like is :) |
| 13:45:10 | mrkiko | Qball: ah ... |
| 13:45:22 | mrkiko | Qball: are you aniway able to use the original firmware to listen to music again? |
| 13:45:50 | Qball | haven't tried |
| 13:45:58 | Qball | as it is pointless for me to begin with |
| 13:46:22 | Qball | flac playing works ok most of the time |
| 13:46:34 | Qball | soundquality is decent |
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| 13:57:06 | BigBambi | kadoban: Might be an idea to try to bug someone with an M3 for keymapping |
| 13:57:56 | B4gder | I general we shouldn't make the lack of support for a few targets cause any halts in committing it |
| 13:58:32 | BigBambi | I don't think so, no |
| 13:58:40 | kadoban | BigBambi: hmm, good idea. anyone with an M3 around and not too busy? |
| 13:58:42 | BigBambi | Especially if they are new ones |
| 13:58:53 | BigBambi | kadoban: I think pixelma and amiconn have them |
| 13:59:15 | BigBambi | B4gder: But I think kadoban's is done for all targets in can be |
| 13:59:30 | B4gder | then I'm for commit |
| 13:59:42 | BigBambi | yes |
| 13:59:52 | BigBambi | Bagder: He has even done the manual! |
| 13:59:58 | B4gder | whoa, gold points! |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:04 | kadoban | :) |
| 14:00:55 | BigBambi | kadoban: I think for the M3 where there is no manual to go by, you don't have much choice |
| 14:01:16 | BigBambi | I just had a quick look for the H100, gigabeat F and Beast, and they look sensible |
| 14:01:16 | kadoban | BigBambi: yeah, i did the best i could, and i think it'll work okay... |
| 14:01:23 | BigBambi | (although I haven't tried it) |
| 14:01:46 | kadoban | i spent a good bit of time looking at the manuals, so i /think/ most of them should be pretty good |
| 14:01:58 | kadoban | and the ipod and e200 ones are tested quite well |
| 14:03:20 | pixelma | kadoban: minor nitpick about the manual section - the line breaks in the long \opt lists lead to some buttons not showing up in some manuals (e.g. "Up" in the X5 manual) you would need to escape the line breaks as explained here http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LatexGuidelines#Include_Exclude_sections . It's probably even better to simply use \nopt there |
| 14:04:08 | * | pixelma does not have an Iaudio M3 |
| 14:04:24 | kadoban | pixelma: oh, thanks...i'll have a look |
| 14:05:27 | BigBambi | pixelma: Sorry, I misread RockboxTesting |
| 14:05:57 | pixelma | that can be fixed later of course, just as a note so it's not forgotten |
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| 14:08:24 | kadoban | oh okay, i see what's wrong now (i'm super bad at LaTeX) |
| 14:12:59 | kadoban | pixelma: i'm not sure i understand how i could use nopt in those places, but i added the %s and it seems to work now. i'll throw a new patch up for the manual |
| 14:15:00 | * | BigBambi checks kadoban's spelling :) |
| 14:15:11 | pixelma | well if you only have one other \opt for e.g. the H10_PAD you could use \nopt{H10_PAD} for all the others (although that could lead to negative effects, sometimes positive effect too maybe, for targets added later) |
| 14:15:15 | BigBambi | kadoban: To make sure to US English slips into the manual :) |
| 14:15:21 | BigBambi | s/to/no/ |
| 14:15:35 | BigBambi | kadoban: btw: \emph {Handicap. } The the handicap of the current game. \\ |
| 14:15:53 | BigBambi | (The double "the") |
| 14:16:02 | kadoban | BigBambi: haha, yeah...there's almsot guaranteed to be US english in there some where. ah, thanks |
| 14:16:47 | kadoban | pixelma: oh okay, i see |
| 14:17:08 | pixelma | mine was just an example, the correct option is probably called IRIVER_H10_PAD or something... |
| 14:17:20 | kadoban | yeah, i know what you mean |
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| 14:25:47 | kadoban | i just threw up a new patch with those fixes, and whitespace fixes in the code |
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| 14:37:15 | obo | gevaerts: would you be interested in a GPL'd host MTP implementation |
| 14:38:14 | Zagor | add "suitable" to that list, and it gets interesting :-) |
| 14:38:31 | gevaerts | obo: host? |
| 14:39:01 | * | B4gder detects that FS #9885 contains code he wrote ~12 years ago |
| 14:39:32 | obo | gevaerts: I put it on the wiki over a year ago, but I didn't realise it also included MTP code... The SansaConnect dumps I produced contain their MTP modules for the 2.6.8 kernel |
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| 14:40:37 | obo | s/2.6.8/2.6.4/ |
| 14:40:57 | * | gevaerts downloads |
| 14:42:19 | | Join Temik [0] (n=snirc011@83.149.10.25) |
| 14:42:28 | obo | That's a not too clean diff between the linux tarball they made and the closest 2.6.4 release I could find |
| 14:42:59 | gevaerts | I'll have a close look at it tonight |
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| 14:45:31 | | Part B4gder |
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| 14:51:53 | Richlv | any iriver h10 users here ? is missing features list on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverH10Port current ? |
| 14:53:09 | gevaerts | obo: it looks like this "mtp" driver is mostly a passthrough between the USB api and a userspace program that actually handles things |
| 14:54:00 | obo | gevaerts: oh :( does it say the name of the program? |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:01:31 | obo | gevaerts: just incase it turns out to be useful: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/connect/ - initrd.romfs and assets.tar.gz contain the filesystem for that device |
| 15:06:58 | gevaerts | obo: I very much doubt if that program would be GPL |
| 15:07:27 | | Quit freqmod_gq (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:07:31 | | Quit freqmod_qu (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:10:02 | * | Unhelpful thinks it would be *much* more worthwhile on our software USB devices to do cdc-ether than mtp |
| 15:10:52 | Zagor | whoa... |
| 15:11:11 | Zagor | with samba too? |
| 15:11:23 | gevaerts | samba.rock! |
| 15:11:27 | GodEater_ | somewhat small amount of work |
| 15:11:39 | gevaerts | Unhelpful: I think there is room for both actually |
| 15:11:43 | Unhelpful | samba or nfs seems obvious... web DB query and file xfer would be nice, as well. |
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| 15:12:12 | Unhelpful | gevaerts: maybe, but i think the only thing mtp could do that ethernet could not would be interacting with mtp client applications. |
| 15:13:20 | Zagor | methinks ftp would rather more quick&easy than samba |
| 15:13:27 | gevaerts | ntp! |
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| 15:13:33 | GodEater_ | tftp |
| 15:14:02 | Zagor | otoh why on earth would we want anything other than ums? |
| 15:14:03 | | Quit bundun (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:14:06 | gevaerts | Unhelpful: true, but there are a lot of those around, and *if* we find a working mtp implementation that just needs to be ported I think mtp will likely be a lot simpler |
| 15:14:26 | gevaerts | Zagor: realtime database updates and playback while usefully connected |
| 15:14:34 | | Quit kachna|lappy (Success) |
| 15:14:41 | Zagor | yeah, I forget the database... |
| 15:15:20 | Unhelpful | gevaerts: i'm not sure of that. does FAT have a unique inode-like number per file and directory? |
| 15:15:26 | gevaerts | I wouldn't underestimate the ability to continue using the device whilew copyig tens of gigabytes to it either :) |
| 15:16:28 | | Quit Sedgewick (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 15:16:40 | Unhelpful | mtp exposes a collection of objects identified by unique numeric IDs. files are by ID, their parent directories are by ID, etc. |
| 15:16:51 | gevaerts | Unhelpful: it doesn't. Are mtp file ids expected to be consistent across connections? |
| 15:17:14 | Zagor | Unhelpful: I don't see how ethernet is any different from ums in this regard. mtp is the #2 way to transfer files. ethernet is rather ... #76? |
| 15:17:53 | gevaerts | we could do rfc1149 with microSD cards as the transport |
| 15:18:07 | Zagor | yay |
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| 15:18:36 | Unhelpful | gevaerts: i don't think they need to be... but i think we might end up walking the whole filesystem, and having to keep an id<->path mapping in memory, during the mtp session, unless we maintain such a mapping on disk. |
| 15:19:24 | Zagor | in the database? |
| 15:20:02 | gevaerts | Unhelpful: maybe a hash of the full path would work? Otherwise I think that requiring the database for mtp could be reasonable |
| 15:20:47 | Zagor | since db is the whole point of mtp I think it's very reasonable |
| 15:20:59 | Zagor | ok then, not the *whole* point :-) |
| 15:21:06 | Unhelpful | that seems reasonable. |
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| 15:22:17 | Unhelpful | libmtp, and linux apps using it, have not been all that great in my experience. i would still rather http, ftp, or samba, really. but i'm not up to implementing *either*, so my opinion doesn't matter as much as that of one who decides to go ahead and code it. ;) |
| 15:23:02 | Zagor | the problem with "anything else" is that there are no desktop applications that support it |
| 15:23:19 | gevaerts | I'm not terribly convinced that IP autoconfiguration would be very reliable |
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| 15:30:15 | * | BigBambi thinks UMS should be enough for anyone :) |
| 15:31:03 | Unhelpful | and 640K ;) |
| 15:31:14 | * | gevaerts hands Unhelpful a clip |
| 15:33:08 | GodEater_ | I can see at most, a world-wide demand for maybe five DAPS which have UMS. |
| 15:33:24 | kadoban | lol |
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| 16:00 |
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| 16:11:49 | rob_ | hi |
| 16:12:14 | rob_ | i seem to be being an idiot when it comes to installing themes on my ipod video 5g with latest rockbox |
| 16:13:05 | | Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:13:06 | rob_ | if i go to Settings -> Theme Settings -> Browse Themes and then select the theme that i've extracted into rockbox, the 'now playing screen' often doesnt change properly or remains the previous layout |
| 16:13:10 | rob_ | why could this happen? |
| 16:17:54 | PaulJam_ | rob_: this usually happens when the theme is broken. If you want to fix it you find the current wps tags here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CustomWPS |
| 16:20:13 | | Nick Beaver`univ is now known as Bavlito (i=balvito@dsl4E5CE2FA.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:20:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | You can usually fix broken themes using a simple text editor and changing the invalid tags. |
| 16:20:56 | rob_ | am i doing it correctly, do i need to manually select the WPS file as well as the 'theme' from 'browse themes'? |
| 16:21:27 | rob_ | is there a known working theme? |
| 16:21:38 | rob_ | i think even most of the themes that came with the installation of rockbox didnt work properly.. |
| 16:21:43 | rob_ | so i thought maybe its my technique thats wrong |
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| 16:23:19 | rob_ | oh, i just tried phkTAPE and it works |
| 16:23:23 | rob_ | so must just be broken themes |
| 16:23:43 | GodEater_ | phkTAPE isn't one of the ones which "comes with" rockbox |
| 16:23:53 | GodEater_ | there are only a few which are installed by default, and they should all work |
| 16:24:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | And phkTAPE is quite old, to be honest. |
| 16:24:37 | GodEater_ | so it's a miracle it works! |
| 16:26:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:26:14 | rob_ | GodEater_: i know, its one of the few that i added |
| 16:28:02 | GodEater_ | I'm trying to think of the list of ones which do come with rockbox : cabbiev2, iCatcher, UniCatcher and Boxes |
| 16:28:04 | GodEater_ | I think |
| 16:28:07 | GodEater_ | there might be others |
| 16:28:11 | GodEater_ | but it's a pretty short list |
| 16:28:49 | rob_ | Rockboxed? |
| 16:29:46 | rob_ | and rockbox_default/rockbox_default_icons |
| 16:30:30 | GodEater_ | rockbox_default isn't a theme really |
| 16:30:34 | GodEater_ | it's a lack of one :) |
| 16:30:47 | GodEater_ | I don't think Rockboxed is shipped theme - but I could be wrong |
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| 16:31:16 | | Nick pH2 is now known as BenjaminPicardat (n=ph@ADijon-256-1-53-48.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:31:17 | rob_ | ah, rockbox_default is what is displayed if a theme is broken? |
| 16:31:36 | rob_ | but its confusing because it seems to inherit some settings of the previously loaded theme |
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| 16:33:02 | GodEater_ | yes, probably the background or something |
| 16:33:13 | GodEater_ | or the font |
| 16:33:30 | rob_ | thats quite annoying, it seems to happen with lots of themes |
| 16:33:48 | rob_ | even the pre-installed ones |
| 16:34:16 | GodEater_ | which pre-installed ones don't work ? |
| 16:34:37 | rob_ | i loaded unicatcher after rockboxed and the font seemed too big for the scrolling text in the bottom box |
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| 16:35:11 | * | GodEater_ doesn't really know who's supposed to look after the shipped themes |
| 16:35:37 | GodEater_ | I don't use anything other than cabbiev2 anyway |
| 16:35:51 | rob_ | ive only just started using rockbox (yesterday) |
| 16:36:25 | GodEater_ | well if there are problems with the shipped themes, we'd definitely like to fix those |
| 16:36:26 | rob_ | it just seems a bit odd that so much effort has been put into something and then the inconsistant navigation and unmaintained interface/themes let it down |
| 16:36:37 | rob_ | i suppose this is the nature of programmers ;) |
| 16:36:55 | GodEater_ | "inconsistent navigation" ? |
| 16:37:06 | rob_ | maybe its just me |
| 16:37:18 | GodEater_ | the only themes "the project" looks after are the pre-installed ones |
| 16:37:23 | GodEater_ | if they're broken, we want to fix them |
| 16:37:38 | GodEater_ | anything else is user submitted, and there's not much we can do for those, except rely on people to fix them |
| 16:37:47 | Unhelpful | the navigation is fairly consistent in core. there are some plugins that definitely act weird. |
| 16:37:55 | GodEater_ | agreed |
| 16:38:22 | rob_ | the layout of the menu is a bit wierd, options seem ambigious |
| 16:38:43 | GodEater_ | redoing the menu layouts is an ongoing project |
| 16:38:52 | GodEater_ | which is fraught with differences of opinion |
| 16:39:00 | rob_ | everything under 'settings' has 'settings' written after whatever sub-title entry it is |
| 16:39:02 | GodEater_ | so feel free to step in and get your mits dirty |
| 16:39:03 | GodEater_ | :) |
| 16:39:19 | rob_ | under theme settings, why do i have the options to browse themes and browse .wps files? |
| 16:39:31 | rob_ | how do i know what the difference is between them and which one i need to select? |
| 16:39:35 | GodEater_ | because they're independent of one another |
| 16:39:36 | rob_ | its all unintuitive ;) |
| 16:39:42 | kadoban | rob_: you read the manual :) |
| 16:39:52 | rob_ | kadoban: i did eventually |
| 16:40:06 | rob_ | but reading the manual isnt an excuse to complicate matters ;) |
| 16:40:22 | Unhelpful | nothing is intuitive in any meaningful sense. ;) |
| 16:40:27 | GodEater_ | rob_: the trouble is Rockbox *is* complex |
| 16:40:43 | GodEater_ | the only way to simplify it would be to remove a host of features |
| 16:40:44 | rob_ | complicated systems can still have logical interfaces |
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| 16:41:01 | GodEater_ | rob_: well as I said, feel free to give us one you think is better |
| 16:41:04 | rob_ | im not saying simplify it, im saying make it unambigious and logical |
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| 16:41:25 | rob_ | unfortunately im not schooled in user interface design |
| 16:41:38 | GodEater_ | rob_: very few people are here |
| 16:42:11 | rob_ | if, as you say, there are huge differences of opinion in how the menu should work |
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| 16:42:19 | rob_ | i'd rather avoid getting involved in that debate :) |
| 16:42:25 | GodEater_ | I didn't say "huge" |
| 16:42:31 | GodEater_ | but differences do exist |
| 16:42:58 | GodEater_ | and if you're not going to get involved in that debate, I hearby withdraw your right to voice any complaints ;) |
| 16:43:12 | rob_ | i actually get off on coming up with pleasurable interface improvements |
| 16:43:43 | GodEater_ | so make suggestions |
| 16:43:48 | kadoban | rob_: i'm sure rockbox could use you then :) suggestions are generally welcomed |
| 16:43:51 | rob_ | i havent used rockbox enough yet |
| 16:43:59 | GodEater_ | like any people, we fear change - but it's not impossible to get us to :) |
| 16:44:12 | rob_ | maybe in a few weeks, i'll keep a list of things that get to me |
| 16:44:20 | GodEater_ | good idea |
| 16:44:32 | GodEater_ | ideally, with a "this is the way I'd do it better" suggestion to go with them |
| 16:44:36 | rob_ | i'll give it to my OCD mate and see if his head explodes |
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| 16:44:42 | rob_ | aye |
| 16:44:48 | GodEater_ | generally people saying "I don't like X", and not having a way to improve it are not greeted warmly |
| 16:45:00 | rob_ | of course :) |
| 16:45:20 | GodEater_ | well, we're not mean to them either |
| 16:45:23 | GodEater_ | but nothing will change ;) |
| 16:45:59 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:46:27 | * | GodEater_ tries to shuffle the pitchforks and torches into a dark corner of the channel |
| 16:47:06 | rob_ | lol :> |
| 16:47:25 | GodEater_ | nothing to see here.... |
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| 16:48:27 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Do you mean "unique" in the sense of "stays the same as long as the file/dir exists" or in the sense of "doesn't clash with the id of another file/dir at any given time"? |
| 16:49:10 | | Quit undertakingyou (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:49:19 | * | GodEater_ presumes amiconn is talking MTP |
| 16:50:37 | jaykay | a stupid question concerning the manual: should i use "headphone socket" or "headhone jack"? |
| 16:50:41 | | Join virtuoso015 [0] (n=virtuoso@59.92.169.106) |
| 16:50:53 | jaykay | i guess there is no difference |
| 16:51:20 | jaykay | (in ethe meaning of them) |
| 16:51:37 | kadoban | jaykay: isn't the socket the female bit and the jack the male bit? (maybe i'm wrong) |
| 16:51:53 | | Join undertakingyou [0] (n=will@undertakingyou.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:52:06 | rob_ | Settings menu gives me a headache |
| 16:52:12 | jaykay | no, both are used for the description of the players... |
| 16:53:07 | rob_ | why is there RockBox -> 'General Settings' -> System and RockBox -> System and RockBox -> Manage Settings |
| 16:53:20 | rob_ | and how am i supposed to guess where to find which settings?! |
| 16:53:42 | kadoban | rob_: Manage Settings is for like saving and loading the files if you want to backup/restore, things like that |
| 16:53:51 | rob_ | i actually gave up looking for the scroll wheel settings because i never knew which menu i was under or how many levels i was into the menu system |
| 16:54:51 | | Part BenjaminPicardat |
| 16:55:00 | kadoban | General Settings->Display->Scrolling ? |
| 16:55:30 | rob_ | why is it under 'Display'? surely its a hardware setting? |
| 16:55:59 | * | kadoban doesn't know :) |
| 16:56:01 | rob_ | i mean for the scroll wheel thing |
| 16:56:07 | rob_ | not the scrolling text |
| 16:56:17 | rob_ | can i even change the sensitivity of it? |
| 16:56:40 | jaykay | with the path kadoban wrote, yes |
| 16:56:53 | GodEater_ | rob_: I don't think you can no |
| 16:56:58 | jaykay | it is a setting of display because it is used in lists... |
| 16:57:16 | jaykay | you can change the scroll speed in lists |
| 16:57:55 | rob_ | lol ok |
| 16:57:56 | rob_ | thanks |
| 16:58:03 | GodEater_ | you can't change the sensitivity of the wheel though |
| 16:58:07 | GodEater_ | not without recompiling |
| 16:58:15 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 16:58:19 | GodEater_ | we spent a few months getting the current setting "right" |
| 16:58:26 | GodEater_ | and then removed the options for it |
| 16:58:32 | GodEater_ | since most people didn't understand them |
| 16:58:47 | rob_ | why am i not surprised ;) |
| 16:58:55 | rob_ | i dont understand what these options do |
| 16:59:03 | GodEater_ | which ones ? |
| 16:59:11 | GodEater_ | and doesn't the manual explain ? |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:37 | jaykay | any complaints about only using headphone jack? |
| 17:01:07 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 17:02:12 | jaykay | ok :) |
| 17:03:51 | rob_ | its difficult to accurately move the selection bar by one |
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| 17:13:05 | YojiXX | hello |
| 17:13:47 | | Quit YojiXX (Client Quit) |
| 17:14:12 | | Join Mastrojani [0] (n=4dfe1e45@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cf1b35ea955dad97) |
| 17:14:20 | Mastrojani | hello! |
| 17:17:00 | Mastrojani | I download VMware player and Debian |
| 17:17:10 | Mastrojani | i run this, all look ok |
| 17:17:27 | Mastrojani | but i dont know how i compile RB to sansa fuze |
| 17:17:42 | | Quit YojiX ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 17:18:23 | | Quit Mastrojani (Client Quit) |
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| 17:19:03 | jaykay | Mastrojani: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToCompiling |
| 17:19:16 | MaEstro | i look this |
| 17:19:27 | | Part bandan |
| 17:19:37 | MaEstro | but i not understand that, my english is bad |
| 17:19:38 | jaykay | its easy. i understood it too :) |
| 17:19:53 | MaEstro | all working good |
| 17:19:55 | jaykay | i guess you dont speak german? |
| 17:20:00 | MaEstro | no |
| 17:20:02 | MaEstro | i from poland :) |
| 17:20:29 | MaEstro | my VMware player an debian working good, but i dont know how compile that :D |
| 17:24:09 | kadoban | MaEstro: are you getting an error? it's difficult to know what to say other than read the documentation |
| 17:24:32 | jaykay | im explaining it in a private chat |
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| 17:40:29 | rob_ | i think the most obvious flaw is not being able to jump between the track browser and the now-playing screen |
| 17:44:44 | jaykay | rob-: how about pressing play? |
| 17:44:49 | jaykay | rob_ |
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| 17:45:17 | rob_ | that doesnt jump directly into the directory thats currently being played |
| 17:46:49 | gevaerts | rob_: have you tried pressing select? |
| 17:47:21 | rob_ | gevaerts: again, same thing |
| 17:47:34 | gevaerts | same thing as what? |
| 17:49:31 | gibbon_ | good evening everybody |
| 17:49:46 | gibbon_ | (or whichever time it is where you are...) |
| 17:49:53 | | Part LinusN |
| 17:52:25 | gibbon_ | is there anything more i should know, if i want to attach a 32GB to my iPod mini than the things mentioned in FS #8644? |
| 17:52:32 | obo | rob_: it does it you have the follow playlist option turned on |
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| 17:59:35 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:00 |
| 18:04:28 | pixelma | rob_: also, are you using the database or the file browser to chose your music? |
| 18:16:55 | | Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:17:31 | | Nick jaykay_ is now known as jaykay (n=chatzill@p579E6BE4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:17:33 | jaykay | is there any reason for writing Optical Line-In, Line-In and Internet capitalized? |
| 18:17:39 | | Quit jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]") |
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| 18:18:18 | kadoban | Internet is a proper noun, is it not? the others, i don't know |
| 18:19:56 | jaykay | i looked it up (i know i should have done before asking), it can be written in both ways |
| 18:20:11 | jaykay | how about line in and optical line in? i dont know where to look |
| 18:20:29 | jaykay | sorry, internet can be written in both ways |
| 18:21:40 | kadoban | jaykay: not sure. by the way, are you doing some kind of epic manual fixup? is there an FS entry? |
| 18:22:03 | jaykay | epic indeed. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9880 |
| 18:22:26 | kadoban | thanks |
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| 18:42:56 | MaEstro | hello i have a problem |
| 18:43:17 | MaEstro | i compile a sansa fuze rockbox with VMware and debian |
| 18:43:32 | MaEstro | i dont have a access for \\debian |
| 18:43:45 | MaEstro | its error |
| 18:44:09 | MaEstro | "windows don't find \\debian ble ble ble..." |
| 18:44:31 | * | gevaerts didn't know that windows said "ble ble ble" in error messages |
| 18:45:03 | MaEstro | :D |
| 18:45:10 | agaffney | what it does say is usually about as intelligible |
| 18:45:38 | | Nick mcuelenaere_ is now known as mcuelenaere (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 18:45:46 | MaEstro | i make a .zip file but i dont have a access |
| 18:45:58 | | Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) |
| 18:51:13 | MaEstro | maybe anybody help me, please |
| 18:51:23 | mrkiko | Stop using windows... |
| 18:52:02 | MaEstro | wow, nice :D |
| 18:52:05 | gevaerts | MaEstro: a lot of people here don't use vmware, so you'll need to wait until someone who can help actually reads the question |
| 18:52:16 | gevaerts | mrkiko: that's not really needed here... |
| 18:52:34 | mcuelenaere | MaEstro: have you checked the VMWare Rockbox wiki page? |
| 18:52:42 | mrkiko | MaEstro: ok... I'll now will try to stop my humour... |
| 18:52:58 | MaEstro | sorry |
| 18:53:16 | mrkiko | MaEstro: check that in debian the package "samba" is installed. If not, please install it... |
| 18:53:27 | MaEstro | ok |
| 18:53:27 | MaEstro | thanks |
| 18:53:53 | jaykay | MaEstro: if you used the cmware image, it is installed |
| 18:55:07 | MaEstro | cmware image? |
| 18:55:20 | MaEstro | what is it? |
| 18:55:30 | gevaerts | MaEstro: "c" is next to "v" on jaykay's keyboard |
| 18:55:42 | MaEstro | i used this 2GB pack for rockbox site |
| 18:55:53 | jaykay | yeah thats right, i meant vmware |
| 18:56:36 | MaEstro | ;) |
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| 18:58:10 | MaEstro | Bridget connection not work |
| 18:58:15 | MaEstro | vmware give a error |
| 18:58:35 | mrkiko | ? |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:01:26 | amiconn | MaEstro: Bridged won't work if you don't configure the network interface within the vm so that it matches your network. You want either NAT or host-only |
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| 19:05:29 | MaEstro | i dont have a idea for \\debian |
| 19:05:44 | scorche | <amiconn> MaEstro: Bridged won't work if you don't configure the network interface within the vm so that it matches your network. You want either NAT or host-only |
| 19:06:08 | MaEstro | NAT or host only dont work |
| 19:06:30 | MaEstro | i write to windows explorer \\debian and windows give a error |
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| 19:17:01 | bertrik | how would a player be able to automatically recalibrate its battery discharge curve? |
| 19:17:19 | bertrik | I noticed this on MrSomeonesTodoList |
| 19:18:20 | bertrik | I have serious doubt about whether automatic recalibration is possible at all with most targets and I couldn't find anything about it in the IRC logs of the past weeks |
| 19:18:33 | bertrik | *week |
| 19:21:02 | jaykay | i would say doing some benches and updating the curves is better... |
| 19:21:46 | jaykay | also self-recalibration is not worth the effort+wasted power |
| 19:22:30 | Llorean | The idea is to do it so that the curve stays up to date as a battery gets older, I think. |
| 19:22:38 | Llorean | Basically, allow someone's player to keep their own personal curve up to date. |
| 19:23:06 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 19:23:27 | bertrik | but as far as I understand a normal bench is done with a more or less constant current or power drain under controlled circumstances |
| 19:24:13 | bertrik | with normal use, I think you can't make a reliable graph because you don't know how much current is consumed at all times |
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| 19:43:14 | amiconn | bertrik: Automatic recalibration is an idea I want to see implemented (for targets where it makes sense). I do think that it is possible |
| 19:43:52 | saratoga | self calibration should be possible by recording how long it takes to get between percentiles, and adjusting the curve until the times are equal |
| 19:44:37 | amiconn | We don't know the exact current at all times, but we're estimation current, and of course automatic recalibration wouldn't change everything in a single discharge cycle - it would average |
| 19:44:44 | amiconn | *estimating |
| 19:46:43 | bertrik | ok, I thought the MrSomeone to do list was a limited list of things already discussed (which doesn't seem to be the case) and with at least some kind of theory of operation. I was afraid the list was turning into some kind of private request tracker. |
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| 19:47:36 | amiconn | My recorder starts warning me about low bat when there are still several hours of runtime left |
| 19:47:48 | bertrik | For it to work at all, the target has to have some kind of way of estimating the power drain I think. |
| 19:48:19 | amiconn | NiMH is especially difficult: Voltage is falling slowly during discharge, and it's also temperature and brand/model dependent |
| 19:49:10 | amiconn | bertrik: Rockbox knows the boost status, whether the disk is spinning or not, whether the backlight is enabled, which brightness it is at etc |
| 19:49:57 | amiconn | That will make a sufficiently precise estimation. |
| 19:50:36 | amiconn | The curve doesn't need to be exact, but right now it's almost unusable on some targets (also depending on the age of the battery etc) |
| 19:54:00 | amiconn | The current current estimation function ignores a lot of this data, btw |
| 19:54:05 | * | kugel wonders if semi-automatic would work too, as in read-in the current battery-bench.txt |
| 19:54:08 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:55:01 | saratoga | we've discussed this before, but it was probably years ago |
| 19:55:17 | bertrik | kugel, that would indeed be a simple a quick way to get a reasonable curve |
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| 19:58:52 | * | amiconn wonders whether he should move the screendump function to firmware/ |
| 19:59:18 | amiconn | I've split it from misc.c, and it is (only!) called from firmware/ on target |
| 19:59:30 | amiconn | Calling apps/ stuff from firmware is nasty |
| 19:59:33 | Bagder | sounds reasonable then |
| 19:59:59 | * | amiconn also added remote screendump |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:21 | amiconn | The sim calls it from firmware/ too (from the backlight thread) |
| 20:00:41 | * | amiconn also needs a solution for a sim bug introduced by jhMikeS more than a year ago |
| 20:01:10 | amiconn | Sims for targets without backlight (i.e. Ondios) have non-working screendump, due to the backlight thread being absent |
| 20:03:18 | | Quit guest001 () |
| 20:03:30 | kugel | amiconn: isn't moving the stuff that calls screendump to apps/ considerable too? |
| 20:03:39 | | Join MaEstro [0] (n=4dfe0def@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-05de6c236eddc4b8) |
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| 20:04:45 | amiconn | kugel: The usb thread (target) resp backlight thread (sims)? Certainly not... |
| 20:04:58 | | Quit BigBambi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 20:05:04 | kugel | not the whole threads... |
| 20:05:23 | amiconn | The theards *are* what calls the function(s) |
| 20:06:02 | kugel | the threads are more than the calls though, and I'd think the actual call could be moved out |
| 20:06:24 | amiconn | How? |
| 20:06:46 | kugel | don't know, I didn't look at the code |
| 20:06:51 | kugel | that's why I asked |
| 20:07:14 | saratoga | hasn't the watermark rewrok in the mysomeone list already done? |
| 20:07:27 | kugel | saratoga: yes, I corrected it today |
| 20:07:30 | saratoga | ah ok |
| 20:07:38 | kugel | "mysomeone list"? := |
| 20:07:40 | kugel | :) |
| 20:07:44 | amiconn | Screendump is called from firmware/ code, and only uses firmware/ code itself. So I think it's better to have it there as well |
| 20:07:49 | bertrik | is there any dev with a sansa c200v2? |
| 20:08:11 | kugel | saratoga: I actually cut&pasted the wrong todo when I added the achievement at the end of the page |
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| 20:08:35 | saratoga | bertrik: no, just one guy who tested some code i think |
| 20:08:39 | | Quit MaEstro ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 20:09:14 | kugel | a good deal of buttons have been found already (not all though), but it needs a working lcd driver |
| 20:09:35 | saratoga | anyone know when funman gets back |
| 20:10:13 | bertrik | kugel, ah a working lcd driver would help testing/hacking a lot indeed :) |
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| 20:10:53 | bertrik | saratoga, he was here 2 days and 13 hours ago, but only briefly IIRC |
| 20:11:13 | kugel | I'd volunteer to look at the OF, but not if there's noone that wants to actively test and do the other work |
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| 20:21:06 | saratoga | i'm not sure what good worrying about the c200v2 is now when we don't have properly working SD drivers for AMS targets yet |
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| 20:23:51 | bertrik | well some c200v2 stuff apparently doesn't work but could be made to work and it would be useful... |
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| 20:47:15 | amiconn | argh |
| 20:47:23 | bertrik | saratoga, I think funman was looking into some of the vendor-specific commands for the sd interface, commands that are possibly related to bank switching |
| 20:47:33 | * | amiconn was wrong regarding the function calls from within screendump |
| 20:48:01 | bertrik | my ams sansa is a 1 GB clip so I can't really experiment with it |
| 20:48:02 | amiconn | It uses create_numbered_filename() resp. create_datetime_filename() which reside in msic.c :( |
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| 20:58:46 | saratoga | bertrik: beyond bank switching, we also have corruption problems |
| 21:00 |
| 21:01:14 | * | amiconn ponders moving these two functions as well |
| 21:01:21 | amiconn | firmware/general.c might be suitable |
| 21:01:34 | | Quit tarbo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 21:05:40 | jaykay | is it necessary to describe exactly the positions of the four buttons "surrounding" a scrollwheel? (in the manual) |
| 21:06:13 | BigBambi | jaykay: yes, for blind people |
| 21:06:19 | | Join tarbo [0] (n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo) |
| 21:06:28 | jaykay | i guessed that already... |
| 21:06:46 | BigBambi | then why ask? |
| 21:06:49 | jaykay | it becomes a unpretty sentence on some targets |
| 21:06:56 | jaykay | because it was a guessing |
| 21:07:00 | Llorean | I'd say "being necessary" trumps "unpretty" |
| 21:07:02 | bertrik | saratoga, I've seen any sd corruption on my sansa clip 1GB, but I haven't really looked for it either |
| 21:07:16 | jaykay | llorean: true |
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| 21:07:21 | gevaerts | jaykay: you can always rewrite it to look better :) |
| 21:07:23 | BigBambi | Llorean: Or any non-made up word too :) |
| 21:07:49 | saratoga | bertrik: i know the fuze gets it, so i assume the clip does too |
| 21:07:58 | jaykay | gevaerts: i need to rewrite some parts as the buttons are not exatly described... |
| 21:10:07 | saratoga | bertrik: i haven't looked, but does the test disk plugin check that reads and writes aren't corrupted? |
| 21:10:09 | fml | amiconn: FYI: the old background (no backlight) color of the H120 sim was 0x5a915a, the new value is 0x7e917e. How did you come to this value (not that it's bad)? |
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| 21:12:47 | amiconn | fml: plain mistake. I'll recheck the colours soon |
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| 21:15:09 | fml | kugel: seen the comment about FS #9883? |
| 21:15:55 | kugel | fml: yes, but I've stated my opinion |
| 21:16:27 | kugel | and lamp is about the only plugin were your reasoning makes sense (to me at least), so that should rather use its own way |
| 21:17:27 | kugel | backlight is very battery intensive, and the people that realized it turn it always of (if possible) and don't want to have it on anywhere. Those who didn't realize probably don't have it at off anyway |
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| 21:19:59 | Llorean | kugel: Then a plugin shouldn't use "force backlight" unless a backlight is truly necessary. |
| 21:20:27 | Llorean | If it doesn't force, it shouldn't be named "force" |
| 21:20:37 | kugel | that's true too |
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| 21:21:51 | kugel | I didn't invent/introduce it though, but I tend to claim that really forcing backlight on is unnecessary for 99% of the plugins |
| 21:22:05 | kugel | if the screen is readable without backlight, that is |
| 21:22:07 | Llorean | How many use it? |
| 21:22:42 | * | kugel hands Llorean "grep force_backlight plugins/*" ;) |
| 21:22:55 | Llorean | I don't have a copy of the source on this computer. |
| 21:23:23 | Llorean | And I also assumed that if you're saying "we shouldn't change these plugins' behaviour" you'd *at least* know which plugins you're talking about. |
| 21:23:35 | fml | Llorean, kugel: my point is that a function should do what it claims to do. |
| 21:23:46 | Llorean | fml: I agree with that. |
| 21:24:30 | kugel | that's why I said I'm not sure if it's a bug |
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| 21:25:08 | kugel | I'd rather rename this, so it's clearer that it's not having an effect if backlight is set to off entirely, and have lamp use its own way |
| 21:25:10 | Llorean | kugel: So which plugins will be broken by changing it? |
| 21:25:22 | Llorean | What's the point in suggesting we rename it if you don't even know which plugins use it yet... |
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| 21:27:56 | kugel | 33 plugins appear to use it |
| 21:27:58 | jaykay | bigbambi: is "The main controls on the \dap{} are a slightly indented wheel with a flat round button in the center." much better for a blind user or is "scroll wheel" clear enough since there aren't so many wheels on a dap? |
| 21:28:18 | BigBambi | jaykay: centre |
| 21:28:18 | gevaerts | "center"? |
| 21:28:22 | low_light | Qball: you around? |
| 21:28:36 | * | linuxstb slaps gevaerts with the Oxford English Dictionary |
| 21:28:42 | | Join merbanan [0] (n=banan@83.233.242.60) |
| 21:28:43 | jaykay | bigbambi: copied from the manual, i didn't write this.... |
| 21:28:44 | BigBambi | jaykay: The manual uses British English |
| 21:28:48 | | Join SFuze [0] (n=57cddbd5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e63ece1a7206296f) |
| 21:29:05 | BigBambi | jaykay: Then it needs fixing - where is it? |
| 21:29:10 | | Join casainho [0] (n=chatzill@87.196.81.35) |
| 21:29:11 | gevaerts | linuxstb: why? For pointing it out? |
| 21:29:19 | | Join YoShimitZu [0] (n=57cddbd5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-30c4307bf0b90e7c) |
| 21:29:20 | casainho | hello :-) |
| 21:29:24 | YoShimitZu | hello |
| 21:29:25 | jaykay | i do it in my patch... but 3.1.1. |
| 21:29:26 | linuxstb | gevaerts: My apologies, I only half-read the logs... |
| 21:29:38 | jaykay | i asked whether this is helpful for a blind user.... |
| 21:29:40 | YoShimitZu | i compile a sansa fuze rockbox and load the bootloader |
| 21:30:05 | YoShimitZu | it is possible that I damaged my player |
| 21:30:20 | | Join Uthark [0] (n=c9e82c38@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-58a11c4ae93fb404) |
| 21:30:29 | pixelma | jaykay: by the way - please don't change too much (especially if it's in different places and not really related) in one patch. That makes it harder to commit |
| 21:30:41 | casainho | I have Rockbox Player code bad because of somtehing about glue_7 section on linker script. I have a vecotrs section that should have different VMA from the LMA address values however it stays with the same value :-( |
| 21:30:43 | YoShimitZu | i have a problem, load rockbox on fuze and not load |
| 21:30:49 | BigBambi | On an installation note, I'd like to add a note for Mac users in the manual install section about how silly the standard mac unzipping tool is - but what is the future of the manual install section? |
| 21:30:50 | kugel | fml: well, maybe other people consider it more as a bug, I'm undecided |
| 21:30:50 | Qball | low_light: am now |
| 21:30:51 | BigBambi | Is it worth it? |
| 21:30:55 | casainho | can someone please help me with glue_7? |
| 21:31:12 | | Quit _lifeless (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:31:18 | casainho | maybe a little explain about glue_7? |
| 21:31:24 | Llorean | kugel: The whole point of having plugins be able to control the backlight was so that they could choose to ignore the setting. |
| 21:31:29 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@94.50.186.32) |
| 21:31:29 | | Quit Uthark (Client Quit) |
| 21:31:32 | Llorean | It's somewhat pointless if they only *sometimes* ignore the setting. |
| 21:31:56 | low_light | Qball: I have a patch to test the touchpad...want to try |
| 21:32:05 | Qball | YES! |
| 21:32:27 | linuxstb | jaykay: BTW, did you see my answer yesterday to your question about "headphone jack" or "headphone socket" ? |
| 21:32:42 | jaykay | linuxstb: no... sorry |
| 21:33:10 | fml | Llorean: yes, all animal are equal, but some are more equal :-) You use mpegplayer, right? How would you expect the plaer to operate if your BL setting were OFF? Would you expect the player to have BL or not? |
| 21:33:17 | low_light | Qball: it adds a debug menu (System > Debug > Debug touchpad) with some options, http://rafb.net/p/FRGJhx32.html |
| 21:33:17 | kugel | Llorean: maybe there could be _force_on and _force_on_unless_off (something like that), the latter one is more appropriate for most plugins imo |
| 21:33:41 | | Join Aurix_Lexico [0] (n=comrade@c-68-56-205-239.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 21:33:43 | Llorean | fml: I already said I agree, "force_" should always force it on. |
| 21:33:50 | | Quit SFuze ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 21:33:57 | BigBambi | jaykay: As to your original question, I don't really know I'm afraid, as I'm not blind so don't know what would be best |
| 21:33:59 | pixelma | BigBambi: I always wanted to clean the install section up (unify and reorder) but not sure when I'll get around to actually do it :\ |
| 21:34:12 | Llorean | kugel: Other than the mono players, there are two players where "off" means it's still usable in plugins as far as I know. |
| 21:34:28 | Llorean | kugel: Maybe you could just do a cleanup on those players where it makes sense to honor their settings. |
| 21:34:32 | fml | Llorean: I try to approach the problem from the other side, i.e. functional or behavioural one. What would you expect? Forget about the function name. |
| 21:34:33 | Llorean | Since it seems so important to you. |
| 21:34:36 | BigBambi | pixelma: Right! |
| 21:34:38 | Qball | low_light: against what is that patch? |
| 21:34:39 | | Join oeoeo [0] (n=peter@142.232.130.209) |
| 21:34:43 | BigBambi | pixelma: I'm starting now! |
| 21:34:49 | Llorean | fml: Mpegplayer must always have the light on. There's no sense entering it if you can't see it. |
| 21:34:57 | low_light | Qball: near current svn ;) |
| 21:34:57 | kugel | fml: it's about targets where the screen is readable without backlight. Why should mpegplayer not operate on that without backlight? |
| 21:35:05 | Qball | does not apply for me |
| 21:35:08 | jaykay | linuxstb: really...? headphone socket? |
| 21:35:09 | Llorean | kugel: On those mpegplayer isn't visible without the backlight. |
| 21:35:28 | kugel | why? |
| 21:35:37 | Llorean | kugel: The screen is only readable in moderate-to-high contrast situations. Moving images like mpegplayer don't really qualify in the vast majority of cases. |
| 21:35:44 | low_light | Qball: what fails |
| 21:35:51 | | Quit nibbler_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:35:53 | pixelma | Llorean: the greyscale ones and e.g. the m200 could work without but I don't think anyone would ever want it |
| 21:36:10 | kugel | Llorean: that's probably why the mpegplayer has his entirely own backlight framework anyway |
| 21:36:23 | BigBambi | pixelma: What do you think to relegating manual installation to an Appendix, or a link to the wiki? |
| 21:36:34 | Llorean | kugel: Which could probably be removed if "force" did what it was intended to instead of being broken |
| 21:36:41 | linuxstb | jaykay: Yes, we have "plugs" and "sockets" (or at least I do...) |
| 21:37:11 | linuxstb | jaykay: A "jack" is something you use to lift a car up... |
| 21:37:12 | kugel | Llorean: why should it be removed? It allows you to run mpegplayer with max brightness without the need to change the global settings everytime you watch a video |
| 21:37:12 | oeoeo | is it expected for rockbox to work on 6th gen ipods? |
| 21:37:18 | BigBambi | jaykay: A jack, if anything, is the plug to me |
| 21:37:24 | Qball | patching file firmware/drivers/synaptics-mep.c |
| 21:37:26 | Qball | Hunk #4 FAILED at 453. |
| 21:37:26 | Qball | 1 out of 4 hunks FAILED −− saving rejects to file firmware/drivers/synaptics-mep.c.rej |
| 21:37:33 | BigBambi | But in the UK, it is plugs and sockets as linuxstb says |
| 21:37:39 | Bagder | oeoeo: no |
| 21:37:48 | fml | BTW: shouldn't the backlight=OFF setting be disabled for players with black screens without backlight? |
| 21:38:23 | pixelma | BigBambi: not sure, maybe not yet |
| 21:38:26 | | Quit YoShimitZu ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 21:38:31 | Llorean | kugel: Well maybe plugins should just generally have their own backlight controls. Then people can set for themselves which plugins are always on, and which ones are readable enough without it. |
| 21:38:42 | Llorean | But the solution is to fix the plugins. |
| 21:38:52 | kugel | sure |
| 21:38:57 | jaykay | linuxstb, bigbambi: jack was used in the manual... and my (oxford) dictionary says "connection betweens two pieces of electronical equipment", so it would be right |
| 21:39:01 | Llorean | Meanwhile "force" should be honored as "forcing" so that existing plugins can force the backlight on when it's necessary for their use (mpegplayer, lamp primarily) |
| 21:39:10 | BigBambi | pixelma: Well I think I'll seperate it all out anyway, so it can be in the future, plus to give automatic more promenence now |
| 21:39:13 | jaykay | it also doesnt say its american english |
| 21:39:24 | BigBambi | jaykay: it isn't, it just isn't clear |
| 21:39:27 | Qball | low_light: hmm let me try again on clean checkout |
| 21:39:39 | jaykay | bigbambi:ok ill use socket.... |
| 21:39:41 | bertrik | Qball, it may help to go back to the svn version that the patch was made for, apply the patch (which should go in cleanly), then update back to current svn |
| 21:39:53 | Qball | what version was it made for |
| 21:39:58 | kugel | Llorean: and all the other plugins should only keep it on if backlight is not entirely set to off |
| 21:40:18 | linuxstb | jaykay: Is "socket" meaningless to you? (and what's your native language?) |
| 21:40:32 | jaykay | bigbambi: also line-in socket? |
| 21:40:38 | BigBambi | yes |
| 21:40:43 | jaykay | linuxstb: no, german |
| 21:40:47 | jaykay | ok |
| 21:40:57 | Llorean | kugel: That sentence doesn't make sense. Force would ignore "off" |
| 21:41:04 | | Quit oeoeo ("Lost terminal") |
| 21:41:09 | bertrik | Qball, you should be able to find the version by looking at the text of the patch itself |
| 21:41:11 | pixelma | BigBambi: unfortunately there is some info which is important on some targets only in the "manual installation" section and not very present in the Rockbox Utility (e.g. having to plug the charger to finish bootloader installation on the Iaudios, stuff like that) |
| 21:41:17 | kugel | hence the _force_on_unless_off thing I proposed |
| 21:41:24 | Llorean | kugel: A true force is necessary. So if you renamed "force" to something else, you'd just have to replace it anyway. So why not just create the something else. |
| 21:41:25 | BigBambi | pixelma: I plan to move that |
| 21:41:35 | low_light | Qball: I'm at v19954, but I don't think that file has been changed recently |
| 21:41:42 | BigBambi | pixelma: So that automatic is complete |
| 21:41:57 | kugel | Llorean: I already suggested that.... |
| 21:41:57 | Llorean | kugel: "Instead of "force_on_unless_off" maybe something like "ignore_backlight_timeout" so it stays on, unless set to off. |
| 21:42:09 | Qball | ugh longtime since I used svn |
| 21:42:30 | | Join pyro_maniac [0] (n=jens@i59F72E17.versanet.de) |
| 21:42:32 | pixelma | BigBambi: you force me to get out my old notes... ;) |
| 21:42:42 | BigBambi | pixelma: good :) |
| 21:42:50 | | Join eusse [0] (n=eusse@201.232.44.56) |
| 21:42:57 | kugel | fml: I hope you got some ideas now :) |
| 21:43:23 | Llorean | kugel: And yes, you already suggested it, but you then focused on renaming again. fml's fix is valid, as it fixes what is a problem. Adding the other thing in would just be a further improvement. |
| 21:43:31 | | Join akur [0] (n=akur@bl6-149-21.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 21:43:31 | Llorean | lamp needs a way to always work, otherwise it's broken. |
| 21:43:35 | low_light | Qball: synaptics-mep.c was last changed in v19480 |
| 21:43:44 | | Part akur |
| 21:43:45 | Qball | odd |
| 21:43:48 | fml | Llorean, kugel: I think we should ask the original creator of the function (petur if I'm not mistaken) whether he did it intentionally. Since the bug is not an obvious one. My assumption is that if he did it intentionally he'd put in a comment (knowing how careful petur is about developers). Hance I think that it was just an oversight. |
| 21:43:51 | Qball | I did an svn revert -R . |
| 21:43:53 | Qball | before applying |
| 21:44:09 | | Join qurvel [0] (n=qurvel@i218-47-29-211.s02.a013.ap.plala.or.jp) |
| 21:44:31 | Qball | how do I checkout older revision? |
| 21:44:36 | * | petur scrolls up |
| 21:44:55 | eusse | Hi everybody, does anybody know under which license was Rockbox released? GPL, BSD, CDDL.... |
| 21:44:58 | kugel | Qball: svn up -rXXXX |
| 21:45:09 | kadoban | eusse: GPL |
| 21:45:20 | domonoky1 | eusse: GPL v2 or later |
| 21:45:29 | jaykay | bigbambi: another question... Optical Line-In, optical Line-In or optical line-in... or something else :) |
| 21:45:57 | Llorean | petur: Is "force backlight on" supposed to *always* force it on, or force it on unless the backlight is specifically set to "off" in the normal setting? |
| 21:46:04 | eusse | Do you have any link where I can read more about licensing and legal stuff? |
| 21:46:23 | low_light | Qball: does patch like need a line return at the end diff? it wasn't in my paste. |
| 21:46:27 | petur | still missing the context |
| 21:46:30 | BigBambi | jaykay: optical line-in |
| 21:46:31 | Llorean | eusse: Did you have a specific question? |
| 21:46:40 | linuxstb | eusse: Download the source code - everything is in there - either the source code headers, or the files in the "docs" directory. |
| 21:46:41 | kugel | petur: backlight_force_on() for plugins |
| 21:46:44 | Qball | still fails |
| 21:46:46 | jaykay | bigbambi: ok, thanks |
| 21:46:47 | Qball | let me see on what |
| 21:46:55 | Llorean | petur: "LAMP" uses the force backlight enable function, but right now if you have backlight set to "off" it's black, otherwise any other backlight timeout value and it works. |
| 21:46:57 | BigBambi | eusse: If it just about licencing in general, google is a good start |
| 21:46:58 | kugel | currently it doesn't kick the backlight on if you disabled it in the global setting |
| 21:47:00 | jaykay | eusse: a manual, at the end of it |
| 21:47:35 | petur | force should probably always force it on |
| 21:47:47 | pixelma | Llorean: same happens with the buttonlight (maybe it was already mentioned, didn't follow your discussion closely) |
| 21:47:47 | Qball | no, keeps failing.. |
| 21:47:53 | Qball | can't you just upload the patch |
| 21:47:59 | * | Qball HATES pastebins for patches |
| 21:48:22 | Qball | low_light: it gives me offsets at every part. |
| 21:48:22 | Unhelpful | Qball: pastie and pastebin.ca work just fine for them, they have raw downloads :P |
| 21:48:24 | kugel | no matter what it's supposed to do (the name indicates that it should even ignore backlight off, I agree), most plugins should not change the current behavior, and thus be fixed |
| 21:48:34 | Qball | there is no raw download on that page |
| 21:48:46 | eusse | ok, I will check the SVN repository |
| 21:48:54 | eusse | thanks to everybody |
| 21:48:58 | jaykay | btw the manual says GNU Free Documentation License Version 1.2... is that right? |
| 21:49:12 | Qball | http://rafb.net/p/LH3NoJ70.html |
| 21:49:13 | Llorean | kugel: That's an incorrect statement. |
| 21:49:26 | kadoban | jaykay: that's the license for the manual, look lower on the page, i believe it has a copy of the GPL |
| 21:49:27 | Llorean | kugel: Most plugins on the current majority of targets *should* force it on if they need it. |
| 21:49:32 | low_light | Qball: here's it is on pastbin: http://pastebin.ca/1333026 |
| 21:49:51 | kugel | I don't see why |
| 21:49:58 | petur | kugel: this was introduced for plugins wher having the backlight always on makes sense |
| 21:50:18 | Llorean | kugel: What's the point of not turning it on if the plugin can't be used or exited without being able to see the screen? |
| 21:50:28 | jaykay | kadoban: you were right, thanks |
| 21:50:30 | kugel | if you have backlight off, you'll want to save energy in plugins too (if the backlight isn't entirely necessary for the plugin to work) |
| 21:50:30 | Qball | low_light: thanks that works |
| 21:50:45 | Llorean | kugel: On most color targets the backlight is 100% necessary for all plugins. |
| 21:50:58 | petur | I agree that this should only be for targets that need backlight |
| 21:51:13 | petur | and lamp always needs it ;) |
| 21:51:15 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 21:51:17 | Qball | low_light: do you have the display patch too? I am afraid I reverted that |
| 21:51:24 | kugel | Llorean: Again, it's about targets where the screen is _readable_ without backlight |
| 21:51:50 | kugel | if someone has backlight off on a target where the screen isn't readable without backlight, he doesn't want to run plugins |
| 21:52:01 | Llorean | kugel: So fix the specific plugins ifdeffed for those targets. |
| 21:52:10 | Llorean | kugel: You're more than welcome to go through the whole plugin list and determine which ones are usable on which targets. |
| 21:52:11 | kugel | there's no sense in that anyway, unless you're blind and don't benefit from backlight |
| 21:52:31 | Llorean | Right now though it's better to err in favour of "can't be used" rather than saying "I hope it can be used, but hey, they can guess where the exit button is, right?" |
| 21:52:37 | kugel | #ifdef the targets? |
| 21:52:40 | kugel | why that? |
| 21:52:50 | Llorean | It needs to be target specific... |
| 21:52:56 | kugel | it doesn't |
| 21:52:59 | Llorean | Yes, it does. |
| 21:53:09 | amiconn | meh |
| 21:53:11 | Llorean | There are plenty of targets where the screen is unusable without a backlight. |
| 21:53:21 | petur | kugel: just watch out what you change, this hase been thought of before, don't change the whole thing like that |
| 21:53:26 | petur | -e |
| 21:53:29 | kugel | ignoring timeout is totally fine. You're not going to reach the plugin without backlight OR don't benifit from backlight at all, if you can't read the screen |
| 21:53:29 | Llorean | But at the same time, people may use voice most of the time because they keep the player in a bag and use a remote. |
| 21:53:33 | amiconn | firmware/general.c isn't as general as one might think :/ It's (currently) swcodec specific |
| 21:53:41 | Llorean | kugel: "Voice" is NOT just for blind users. There are screenless remotes. |
| 21:53:42 | Qball | low_light: please :( |
| 21:53:51 | | Part eusse |
| 21:53:55 | Llorean | kugel: Stop making assumptions like "they cannot get to the plugin without the backlight on" |
| 21:54:02 | * | amiconn is undecided whether moving the filename functions is a good idea |
| 21:54:06 | | Join eusse [0] (n=eusse@201.232.44.56) |
| 21:54:09 | Llorean | You need to fix it properly, not assume away the edge cases. |
| 21:54:11 | kugel | "OR don't benifit from backlight" |
| 21:54:14 | | Part eusse |
| 21:54:20 | Llorean | kugel: Plugins can't be used without voice. |
| 21:54:25 | low_light | Qball: http://pastebin.ca/1333035 |
| 21:54:28 | Llorean | SO you can navigate to them blindly, but need the light to use them. |
| 21:54:32 | amiconn | But if it's not, screendump can't be moved either, which means the nastiness in usb.c and backlight.c will stay as well |
| 21:54:37 | Llorean | So they DO benefit from backlight, but don't require it to be on to get there. |
| 21:54:40 | kugel | I won't fix anything, I don't intend to touch that code, I'm just stating my opinion |
| 21:55:01 | * | petur goes looking for a rubber chicken |
| 21:55:03 | Llorean | kugel: Well, your opinion is overlooking several use cases. |
| 21:55:06 | low_light | Qball: and remember to change LCD_WIDTH and LCD_HEIGHT in the config to 220x176 |
| 21:55:11 | mcuelenaere | saratoga: regarding the Cowon D2 post: yes I know, but I'm more hesitant when deleting posts of other people's threads |
| 21:56:13 | kugel | Llorean: maybe, that's one of the reasons for having a discussion here, to reveal edge cases |
| 21:56:39 | | Part Zambezi |
| 21:57:07 | taylor__ | anyone know if jump to register is just a windows technique for hacking? |
| 21:57:32 | | Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:57:32 | Llorean | kugel: Simply put: You may not choose to use the backlight in the UI, but still need it in plugins, so it needs to be fixed on a case by case basis for target and plugin by someone who can actually look at the screen. |
| 21:57:47 | Llorean | Until then, "better safe than sorry" means it should turn it on if there's uncertainty, rather than leaving it off if there's uncertainty. |
| 21:58:07 | kugel | and so I suggested to have the force ignoring off too for plugins were it's necessary |
| 21:58:15 | BigBambi | pixelma: Any luck digging out notes? Just to make sure we are going in the ame direction :) |
| 21:58:19 | BigBambi | *same |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:34 | | Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 22:01:37 | fml | kugel: I could probably agree with you if the backlight on/off were a separate setting and the backlight timeout a separate one. Then the func would just overwrite the timeout but not the ON/OFF setting. But this is one setting, and the purpose of the func is solely to ignore it. |
| 22:02:27 | kugel | fml: or, have backlight_force_on() and backlight_ignore_timeout() as suggested several times. |
| 22:02:33 | Qball | low_light: ? |
| 22:02:38 | Qball | low_light: what info to give you |
| 22:03:13 | kugel | i.e. rename the current function, and make a new which ignores everything (or fix the current one, and make a new which ignores the timeout only, choose what you like) |
| 22:03:16 | low_light | Qball: you in the debug touchpad screen? |
| 22:03:25 | Qball | yeah it crashed gimme a sec :D |
| 22:03:26 | fml | kugel: yes, but plugins use "force on", hence the authors are aware of what they're at. |
| 22:03:45 | kugel | I still think that most plugins don't necessarily need backlight, even if some more than lamp only need it due to edge cases |
| 22:03:58 | Llorean | Most of the current uses of "force on" are correct. One would have to go through with actual hardware and determine on a case-by-case where "ignore timeout" is actually useful. |
| 22:03:58 | Qball | low_light: ok |
| 22:04:01 | Qball | low_light: am there |
| 22:04:11 | Llorean | kugel: And I've told you several times now, you're absolutely WRONG about that. |
| 22:04:14 | Llorean | It's not an issue of opinion. |
| 22:04:50 | Llorean | The only time you don't need a backlight to use a plugin is if you're one of the mono targets, or one of a very, very small selection of color targets. |
| 22:05:01 | | Part qurvel |
| 22:05:04 | low_light | Qball: Select "View raw packets" then press and hold the touchpad buttons |
| 22:05:05 | Llorean | Every other target whether the backlight is used in the UI or not, you will need a backlight to see the plugin and exit it. |
| 22:05:35 | Qball | low_light: ok. |
| 22:05:42 | low_light | Qball: hopefully they all respond in some way |
| 22:05:54 | kugel | what about greyscale? |
| 22:06:02 | Llorean | Those are the 'mono targets' |
| 22:06:35 | Llorean | You have the M5, M3, H100, M:Robe and Archoses |
| 22:07:01 | Qball | hmmm yeah somewhat. |
| 22:07:29 | Qball | when using the slider I see the 2nd block go up and down depending if I go up or down |
| 22:08:36 | Qball | when I press prev/next button I often see packet 2 appear |
| 22:08:37 | low_light | what's the first byte in the packet? |
| 22:08:44 | Llorean | kugel: And old iPods, sorry. |
| 22:09:00 | Qball | low_light: from left to right or right to left? |
| 22:09:04 | Llorean | kugel: Mono targets can unilaterally be given the "ignore timeout" safely |
| 22:09:12 | Llorean | But as I've said, color targets need a case-by-case basis. |
| 22:09:16 | low_light | 2 packets will appear for some, that's normal |
| 22:09:25 | kugel | fml: ok, so ignore what I said. Llorean convinced me that it's a bug. We probably don't want ignore_timeout (as it would be hardware specific anyway) |
| 22:09:35 | low_light | Qball: left to right |
| 22:09:46 | Llorean | ignore_timeout would be useful, but would require a lot of note taking first. |
| 22:10:14 | Qball | low_light: 0B for top buttons and slider.. 19 for menu < > and menu |
| 22:10:24 | Llorean | It needs to be force_on until someone can actually *try* it and say if it's at least readable enough to see how to exit (preferably in indoor light, rather than direct daylight) |
| 22:10:24 | | Quit Rondom (Nick collision from services.) |
| 22:10:40 | | Join Rondom [0] (n=Rondom@dslb-084-057-169-040.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:10:40 | BigBambi | Can the M5 dual boot? (I don't think so) |
| 22:11:10 | Llorean | BigBambi: Non of the Cowon supported players can. |
| 22:11:21 | BigBambi | Llorean: Thanks, didn't think so |
| 22:11:36 | fml | What about what I said earlier (disabling backlight=OFF on players where the screen is not readable without backlight, e.g. sansa e200)? This is of course a separate topic, but still related. |
| 22:11:41 | amiconn | Llorean: #if !defined(HAVE_LCD_COLOR) || defined(HAVE_TRANSFLECTIVE_LCD) |
| 22:11:59 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 22:12:01 | Llorean | amiconn: Basically, yes. But some are unusable even transflective (mpegplayer on Nano, for example) |
| 22:12:05 | amiconn | Oh, not quite, the Clip is also unreadable without "backlight" |
| 22:12:09 | Llorean | But you can quit at least. |
| 22:12:24 | | Join nibbler_ [0] (n=Nibbler@txx226.disy.net) |
| 22:12:26 | Llorean | The Clip is a rather special case, yes. |
| 22:12:50 | Llorean | fml: It shouldn't be disabled. Voice exists and blind people don't want backlight (or people who operate in their pocket) |
| 22:12:59 | kugel | isn't m:robe similar in this regard? |
| 22:13:10 | kugel | m:robe 100 |
| 22:13:13 | amiconn | Imo backlight_force_on() should force it on, on all targets. The only other option would be to handle each plugin individually - but those functions were made to avoid that... |
| 22:13:20 | Llorean | no, M:robe is just a normal LCD with a red backlight. |
| 22:13:32 | Llorean | amiconn: That's basically what we agree on right now. |
| 22:13:48 | | Quit petur ("bleargh") |
| 22:13:52 | kugel | isn't it mono? but it's readable without backlight? |
| 22:14:02 | amiconn | mpegplayer basically needs backlight on all targets it supports |
| 22:14:05 | low_light | Qball: the ones with 19 are "buttons" on the touchpad. Can you give me the full first packet (there are probably two) |
| 22:14:18 | fml | Llorean: ok. I just imagined a user selecting this setting and getting into a "black hole" :-) |
| 22:14:30 | low_light | Qball: the packet while pressed |
| 22:14:33 | Qball | eeuh actually no. |
| 22:14:43 | Qball | eeuh wait gimme a sec |
| 22:15:02 | low_light | btw the power button is exit |
| 22:15:55 | Llorean | kugel: I listed the m:robe in my "mono/gray and readable" |
| 22:16:11 | Llorean | The Clip is unique as unreadable because it's not actually backlit. |
| 22:16:19 | | Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) |
| 22:16:28 | Qball | the 0B seems to vary a bit |
| 22:16:29 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 22:16:48 | kugel | oh, I didn't get that the ones you named are readable too |
| 22:17:02 | fml | Llorean: clip isn't mono! |
| 22:17:06 | Llorean | fml: It's 1bpp |
| 22:17:09 | Qball | aah it has 2 sliders! one horizontal one vertical |
| 22:17:11 | Qball | that is pretty neat |
| 22:17:17 | low_light | Qball: 0B ones are "absolute" packets they report position |
| 22:17:18 | Llorean | :-P |
| 22:17:25 | low_light | Qball: exactly |
| 22:17:46 | fml | Llorean: but it has two colors! (just kidding) |
| 22:18:33 | BigBambi | Does Mac OSX give any funny names to mount points? As in, where for linux we say "On Linux you need to know the |
| 22:18:35 | Qball | low_light: bit slow, tired.. did a release of my program today and hospital visit |
| 22:19:00 | BigBambi | mount point of your player", can I add OSX to that, or does it call them something odd? |
| 22:19:03 | jaykay | another question for the epic manual fixup: is there a difference between optical line-in and line-in? if no, which should i use? |
| 22:19:05 | Qball | low_light: http://images.sarine.nl/gogear_hdd6320.jpg |
| 22:19:16 | BigBambi | jaykay: yes |
| 22:19:19 | Qball | oO 2 00 missing |
| 22:19:25 | BigBambi | jaykay: One is optical, the other is analogue |
| 22:19:45 | BigBambi | jaykay: The H100 has one socket that does both |
| 22:19:46 | jaykay | ok, thanks |
| 22:20:19 | jaykay | the manual says only optical line-in for h-100... is that enough? |
| 22:20:23 | Qball | low_light: brb.. |
| 22:21:33 | low_light | Qball: cool! |
| 22:21:54 | Llorean | jaykay: Does it mention anywhere that the optical line-in is also analog? |
| 22:22:05 | jaykay | no |
| 22:22:15 | jaykay | wait |
| 22:22:40 | Qball | low_light: hope it helps |
| 22:22:42 | jaykay | i dont know, at least not within the description of the "interface" of the player.... |
| 22:22:51 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC") |
| 22:23:07 | | Quit Rondom (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:23:26 | pixelma | BigBambi: very hard to explain in a few words, as I said I wanted to reorder a bit - stuff people should know before installing (supported target, losing DRM capabilities, how to find out OF version (explained in a more checklist kind of way) etc.), then unify the installation part (only where automatic and manual differ describe Xa or Xb), then what to have to take care of afterwards |
| 22:23:50 | pixelma | also get rid of some things I don't think the Rockbox manual should explain like what a zip utility is (maybe link to some other place if people think it's needed) |
| 22:24:04 | BigBambi | pixelma: OK |
| 22:24:10 | Llorean | jaykay: In the physical description it should mention that the one hole is used both for analog line-in and for digital optical recording. |
| 22:24:19 | BigBambi | pixelma: I'll have a bash and then people can critique on flyspray :) |
| 22:25:10 | low_light | Qball: for the 2 "sliders" can you tell does the first number of the last byte change depending on one you touch? |
| 22:25:18 | jaykay | Llorean: "...you can find the headphone socket, remote port, optical line-in, and optical line-out." already slightly modified by me, any suggestions? |
| 22:25:38 | Qball | low_light: let look |
| 22:26:09 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:26:13 | Llorean | jaykay: As I said, it should mention that the optical is also usable for analog. Same is true for the line out. |
| 22:26:26 | Qball | low_light: the last 3 change. |
| 22:26:31 | Qball | last 3 bytes |
| 22:26:32 | pixelma | BigBambi: I thought of putting it in a nice table and then somewhere in the forums or flyspray and ask native speakers for the actual phrasing - as this is what often demotivates me as I know I'll need a longer time and it still won't sound as good as from a native speaker |
| 22:27:06 | pixelma | good idea flyspraying it |
| 22:27:17 | jaykay | Llorean: i know, any suggestions how to change this? "...line out, which is also analogue " is unpretty (i like this word:P) |
| 22:27:20 | BigBambi | pixelma: At the moment I'm working on taking specific bits out of the manual section that are needed in the auto section too |
| 22:27:36 | BigBambi | pixelma: I have no choice but to flyspray it :) |
| 22:27:54 | BigBambi | pixelma: And then afterwards I'll have a go at the checklist type stuff |
| 22:28:09 | pixelma | I forgot Oo |
| 22:28:25 | | Join MethoS [0] (n=lem@host-091-097-240-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:28:27 | | Quit MethoS (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:28:30 | Llorean | jaykay: "you can find the headphone socket, remote port, and two ports that serve as combination optical and analog input and output respectively. |
| 22:28:33 | Llorean | Maybe |
| 22:28:43 | Llorean | Seems a little unclear still.. |
| 22:29:00 | Llorean | "and two ports, one for input and one output, that support both optical and analog connections" |
| 22:29:14 | Qball | low_light: any way to figure out how to enable the the lights behind buttons |
| 22:29:29 | | Join MethoS [0] (n=lem@host-091-097-240-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:29:37 | jaykay | ...line-in and line out, both analog and optical? |
| 22:29:59 | | Quit MethoS (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:30:12 | gevaerts | jaykay: still ambiguous. That can be read as four sockets |
| 22:31:15 | low_light | Qball: I'm pretty sure it's build into the touchpad. So it's just a matter sending the right commands. It's on my todo list. |
| 22:31:29 | Qball | not to important |
| 22:31:34 | pixelma | speaking of the players' description... some time ago the thought was discussed to label reset holes, microphones etc. in the drawings too. I started but then noticed that you could then also label headphone socket, (optical) line-in or line-out, USB connectors. I didn't know where to draw the line and it's also a kind of space problem - where to put all the labels on the drawing? |
| 22:32:22 | jaykay | i dont like labelling that... |
| 22:32:28 | jaykay | describing them is enough imo |
| 22:32:37 | low_light | Qball: can you try "Button debug" and tell me the "position" values are for various spots? |
| 22:32:40 | | Join MethoS [0] (n=lem@host-091-097-240-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:32:51 | Qball | low_light: lets try |
| 22:33:51 | Llorean | pixelma: I think for labelling, "buttons and things that don't have their own labels" is good enough. |
| 22:34:08 | | Quit MethoS (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:34:11 | Llorean | Since we use our own terms for buttons, and things that don't have labels may still be referenced by us (like the reset hole) |
| 22:35:23 | Qball | low_light: position:: (left to right) 0 -> 4096 |
| 22:36:00 | Qball | z seems a bit buggy |
| 22:36:04 | | Quit jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]") |
| 22:36:10 | | Join Rondom [0] (n=Rondom@dslb-084-057-156-242.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:36:28 | low_light | z is "finger pressure" |
| 22:37:03 | low_light | Qball: the vertical slider? |
| 22:37:39 | Qball | also 0 4095 |
| 22:37:48 | | Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=rmenes@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37) |
| 22:37:51 | Qball | for position |
| 22:38:29 | Qball | not sure how to keep the 2 apart |
| 22:38:42 | BigBambi | Other than the US H300, do any other targets permamently loe DRM 'ability' by installing Rockbox? |
| 22:39:07 | Qball | 0 - 4095 is bottom to up |
| 22:39:12 | pixelma | Llorean (and jaykay) thanks for the opinions |
| 22:39:15 | n1s | BigBambi: dont' think so |
| 22:39:21 | low_light | Qball: what's z if you press normally on the slider? |
| 22:39:32 | Qball | +- 40-50 |
| 22:39:43 | Llorean | BigBambi: There has been some talk about temporary loss of DRM on Rhapsody players. I've seen two people report it, no word if reverting recovers it, and no real confirmation as to whether it's really us that causes it. |
| 22:39:44 | Qball | vertical |
| 22:39:50 | Qball | 80-100 horizontal |
| 22:39:55 | Llorean | BigBambi: Rhapsody e200 players, rather |
| 22:39:59 | Llorean | Just for clarity |
| 22:40:15 | BigBambi | Llorean: Hmmm, worthy of a manual mention? |
| 22:40:22 | n1s | re: discussion about the strlcpy-strncpy thing I think we should drop strncpy if we switch to strlcpy to discourage its use and use mempcy for example in places where strlcpy doesn't fit |
| 22:40:29 | kugel | people seem to report drm loss on the fuze as well |
| 22:40:32 | LambdaCalculus37 | Is DRM loss mentioned in the H300 manual? |
| 22:40:47 | kugel | n1s: you get my vote |
| 22:40:49 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: It is about to be |
| 22:40:49 | | Join tessarakt [0] (n=jens@e180076187.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:41:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: It already is. |
| 22:41:10 | * | LambdaCalculus37 looks at the Sansa manual |
| 22:41:18 | pixelma | it is but quite late |
| 22:41:20 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Which section? |
| 22:41:35 | BigBambi | I'm about to mention it at the very start of the installation section |
| 22:41:39 | | Join |mr [0] (n=lymeca@student167-234.hampshire.edu) |
| 22:41:49 | Llorean | BigBambi: I am not entirely sure if it's worthy of mention or not. It'd be nice to know if it's "installing Rockbox" that breaks it or "not following our instructions, doing stupid things, then finally installing Rockbox" that breaks it. |
| 22:41:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: Here, under "installing the bootloader": http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-h300/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-110002.3.2 |
| 22:42:02 | BigBambi | Llorean: I'll leave it for now then |
| 22:42:07 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: ah, there |
| 22:42:09 | Llorean | Since there are other people who claim it's not broken, and the two cases where I've heard of it broken were people who had install difficulties. |
| 22:42:16 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: I see it now |
| 22:42:24 | BigBambi | Llorean: OK |
| 22:42:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: And the e200 manual has a nice big warning about not using those install instructions on Rhapsody e200s, so I think the DRM loss mention should be on the E200RInstallation page. |
| 22:43:04 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Yes, agreed |
| 22:43:15 | low_light | Qball: thanks. the first bit of the Z value is an "index" (I didn't forgot to display it separately). That suggests the vertical slider is index 0 and the horiz one is #1. |
| 22:43:35 | low_light | rather bit 7 is index |
| 22:43:43 | Llorean | LambdaCalculus37: Well, arguably, the e200R installation instructions need to be moved to the manual |
| 22:43:53 | Llorean | now that we have a proper tool for it, and non-changing instructions |
| 22:44:01 | Qball | low_light: also 19 90 slowly shows when releasing one of the buttons |
| 22:44:08 | | Join itcheg [0] (i=62db4767@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3103071b5ec9961b) |
| 22:45:05 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: Should that be done with an \opt{}, or just added with a \note{} in the manual? |
| 22:45:07 | low_light | Qball: the "buttons" only respond to when the active state changes (presses and releases). "90" means no button |
| 22:45:26 | Qball | low_light: ok, just trying to give you sufficient info |
| 22:46:41 | pixelma | LambdaCalculus37: as far as I know there is no separate e200R manual, so |
| 22:46:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: Make the e200 manual an e200/e200R manual? |
| 22:47:01 | Llorean | Yes, I think so. |
| 22:47:19 | low_light | Qball: I'm still confused as to why the vertical strip doesn't work as-is (it should duplicate the horizontal one). |
| 22:47:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: Okay, good call. |
| 22:47:44 | Qball | low_light: does nothing. |
| 22:47:59 | Qball | I do hear "clicks" |
| 22:48:04 | Qball | but I guess that hw |
| 22:48:31 | low_light | Qball: I'll try to come up with a some new button code to test tomorrow |
| 22:48:33 | | Quit ender` (" But there, everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the f") |
| 22:48:41 | low_light | have to go now. Thanks for testing. |
| 22:48:48 | Qball | low_light: if I ever meet you |
| 22:48:54 | Qball | remind me to buy you a beer |
| 22:48:55 | Qball | or 2 |
| 22:49:23 | low_light | :) |
| 22:49:25 | low_light | later |
| 22:49:27 | | Quit low_light ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 22:49:31 | LambdaCalculus37 | Qball: Make sure to make them good beers. Here, we take pride in our beer drinking. :) |
| 22:49:42 | Qball | LambdaCalculus37: belgium beer? |
| 22:49:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | Qball: Belgium beer is always on-topic. :) |
| 22:50:08 | Qball | personally I don't drink beer. |
| 22:50:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | But try not to flood here with beer talk... take it to #rockbox-community. |
| 22:50:29 | Qball | can't sing the beer song? |
| 22:50:47 | | Quit mcuelenaere () |
| 22:52:26 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Now you are here, does Mac OS X call mount point anything odd? |
| 22:52:42 | BigBambi | As in, can I say "You need to know the player mount point?" |
| 22:52:49 | | Quit moos ("reboot") |
| 22:52:54 | BigBambi | er, sway ? and " |
| 22:53:00 | BigBambi | and *swap |
| 22:53:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: For the manual? |
| 22:53:14 | BigBambi | yes |
| 22:53:31 | | Join Shoot40 [0] (n=bukkake@c-71-205-47-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 22:54:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | In Rockbox Utility, you have to know what the drive appears as (e.g. /Volumes/<name of volume>), and point to it. But iPodpatcher and Sansapatcher don't really need to know; they'll detect whatever's connected. |
| 22:54:33 | kadoban | does anyone have an M3 and is willing to try a plugin for me? (i am unsure of the controls as I can't even look at a manual) |
| 22:54:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: In manual/platform/e200.tex, should I just add a new \edef\UseOption{e200r}, or make the first \def{} "\def\NewOption{e200,e200r}" instead? |
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| 22:55:28 | n1s | LambdaCalculus37: what do you need the "e200r" opt for? |
| 22:55:38 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Right, but in the sentance "On Windows this means you need to know the drive letter associated with the \dap{}. On Linux and Mac OS X you need to know the mount point of your \dap{}" can I put Mac OS X like that, or does it call them omething else |
| 22:55:45 | BigBambi | *sentence |
| 22:56:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | Mac OS X goes by Volumes. For example, my Gigabeast appears on my desktop as "Gigabeast" (the volume name). |
| 22:57:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | So you can make Mac OS X "You need to know the Volume name of your device". |
| 22:57:24 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: OK, thanks |
| 22:57:43 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: Because we're going to add the e200R install instructions into the manual. |
| 22:58:08 | Llorean | LambdaCalculus37: Doesn't rbutil auto-detect in OSX too? |
| 22:58:19 | BigBambi | Llorean: It should, yes |
| 22:58:21 | amiconn | Doesn't that use exactly the same build as the plain e200? |
| 22:58:32 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: It does. |
| 22:58:40 | BigBambi | This is part of a note that if it doesn't |
| 22:58:42 | | Part Shoot40 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 22:58:52 | Llorean | Ah |
| 22:58:54 | | Join moos [0] (i=Mustapha@rockbox/staff/moos) |
| 22:58:54 | Llorean | Missed that somewhere |
| 22:58:57 | BigBambi | and for manual unzipping |
| 22:58:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | But sometimes, like if you connect one device, do your stuff, close RButil and start again with a different device connected, RButil will still be looking for the first device. |
| 22:59:07 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:59:09 | BigBambi | Llorean: Probably because I didn't say it before :) |
| 22:59:15 | Llorean | amiconn: e200 / e200 R use the same build, but very different install procedures. |
| 22:59:19 | Llorean | For bootloader install, that is |
| 22:59:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: Llorean answered the question. |
| 22:59:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | So we should add the bootloader install instructions to the manual. |
| 22:59:45 | amiconn | Llorean: Sure, but identical builds mean that they also share the manual |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:14 | amiconn | -> you won't need a separate \opt |
| 23:00:17 | Llorean | amiconn: Yes. |
| 23:00:28 | n1s | LambdaCalculus37: if they are goin gto use the same manual there's no need for a separate opt as both "e200" and "e200r" will be defined at exactly the same time |
| 23:00:45 | n1s | what they said ^ |
| 23:01:03 | LambdaCalculus37 | Okay, no \opt then. |
| 23:01:15 | BigBambi | I'll get to e200r |
| 23:02:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: I just changed manual/platform/e200.tex to at least add the title "e200 and e200R Series". |
| 23:02:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | I'll add that in at least. |
| 23:02:16 | * | LambdaCalculus37 also decides to change "Sansa c200" to read "Sansa c200 Series" |
| 23:02:54 | | Quit moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:02:54 | * | Llorean thinks using the word "series" helps in many places. |
| 23:03:54 | | Join AndyIL [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 23:04:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: Changes are committed. |
| 23:04:58 | kadoban | Are any developers interested in helping me get a plugin submitted? (FS #7369) I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to get it ready, and I'll take initiative with any bug reports and porting to new targets if I can. (I mentioned this earlier, but i'm hoping to spark some interest in this time zone) |
| 23:05:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | If you think it'll help as well, I'll change the name of the H100 manual to just read "iriver iHP-100 and H100 Series" next. |
| 23:05:32 | Llorean | LambdaCalculus37: That's bad. |
| 23:05:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: Then I shall not do so. |
| 23:05:43 | Llorean | The h100 "series" actually covers two unique hardwares. |
| 23:05:44 | | Quit {phoenix} (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:05:52 | Llorean | The h110/115 with 16mb of RAM and the h120/140 with 32mb |
| 23:05:56 | Llorean | These use different builds. |
| 23:05:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: Ahh, that's right. |
| 23:06:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | Okay, it shall be left alone, then. |
| 23:06:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | Gotta go! |
| 23:06:08 | | Quit taylor__ ("Leaving") |
| 23:06:08 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Fwump") |
| 23:06:11 | amiconn | The manual is the same though, iirc |
| 23:06:40 | Llorean | Yeah, it seems to be. |
| 23:06:51 | * | Llorean thinks it possibly shouldn't be, but isn't a big deal |
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| 23:33:31 | kugel | amiconn: sometimes, my e200 sim gets black over a bigger than display area |
| 23:33:52 | kugel | like 176x250 of black, instead of 176x220 |
| 23:36:20 | | Join Lynx_ [0] (n=till@xdsl-84-44-174-231.netcologne.de) |
| 23:37:40 | amiconn | Define sometimes |
| 23:41:04 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 23:44:28 | kugel | amiconn: randomly |
| 23:45:03 | kugel | I didn't figure how to reproduce, it happens quite often though |
| 23:46:01 | amiconn | At the top or at the bottom? |
| 23:46:08 | | Join JdGordon_ [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 23:46:11 | kugel | so, and I'm trying to reproduce the data abort in add_handle with logf, but unfortunately the memory isn't big enough to add the beginning of the 6th song of the playlist that certainly crashes |
| 23:46:18 | kugel | amiconn: bottom |
| 23:46:32 | kugel | it overlaps with the ret 9 |
| 23:46:37 | JdGordon_ | is the sim broken? im getting "incomplete installation" after doing make install |
| 23:50:00 | amiconn | kugel: weird |
| 23:50:05 | kugel | that sucks... |
| 23:50:22 | | Quit MethoS (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:50:34 | kugel | so I'm lucky to find a playlist to trigger a data abort, and now I can't logf with it :/ |
| 23:50:42 | | Join MethoS [0] (n=lem@host-091-097-240-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 23:51:09 | | Quit gevaerts ("back soon") |
| 23:51:15 | | Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:51:37 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@ppp-70-243-32-116.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:52:08 | bertrik | talking about data aborts, isn't it possible to show more information during an exception? like the contents of the link registers (or possibly just all registers)? |
| 23:52:19 | JdGordon_ | anyone have any ideas why the sim would complain about incomplete install.. and not being able to open the files browser but the cabbie icons are sll shown! |
| 23:53:45 | kugel | the data abort doesn't seem to happen w/o dircache and load to ram |
| 23:54:25 | kadoban | JdGordon: sim seems to be working for me, from latest svn (only tried e200) |
| 23:55:01 | kugel | JdGordon_: messed with the file access rights? |
| 23:55:14 | JdGordon_ | no, rights are all fine |
| 23:55:22 | kugel | try sudo ./rockboxui :p |
| 23:55:32 | kugel | it's working here too (except for the mentioned backlight issue= |
| 23:55:34 | kugel | ) |
| 23:55:34 | JdGordon_ | same thing |
| 23:56:19 | JdGordon_ | maybe its a fubar sdl install? no idea how to check that thouh |
| 23:56:57 | amiconn | kugel: There might be a bug in the clipping. The blitting won't show it, because it cannot blit outside the source surface area, but the blackfilling uses SDL_FillRect |
| 23:57:23 | pixelma | kugel: I don't use dircache or load to RAM but I guess turning on/off options that change buffer size might have some influence (the buffering crash) |
| 23:57:36 | amiconn | JdGordon: Maybe strace will tell you |
| 23:57:50 | amiconn | Or gdb |
| 23:58:17 | kugel | pixelma: well, decreasing the buffer made the data abort disappear (the 6th song isn't loaded into the buffer), but enlarging it too it seems (even though the 6th is of course loaded now) |
| 23:58:17 | amiconn | It must be a problem with your installation though. Sim's working fine here |
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