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#rockbox log for 2009-02-11

00:00:24pixelmaand I play the files from the file browser
00:01:05kugelhm, only very few bytes of my 6th song fit into the buffer
00:01:47amiconnkugel, pixelma: It seems to be a buffer alignment issue. If the data abort happens, a change of buffer size won't make it go away, up to some limit (limit is probably different for increase and decrease)
00:01:58kugelif it's more, no data abort. maybe I'm hitting some edge case with the partial buffering, which makes it fail
00:02:25amiconnMaybe it happens if the metadata would only fit partially (we have MoB these days...)
00:02:26 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:02:34kugelamiconn: well, more buffer makes it go away
00:02:37 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
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00:03:21 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
00:03:25 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
00:03:25kugelTony pointed out that new_handle->id assignmet is crashing
00:03:26 Join amiconn_ [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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00:04:31kugelhm, do we have a maximum metadata-size-per-file?
00:05:10kugelI wonder if refusing to partial buffer the entire file if the (max) metadata is bigger than the remaining buffer "solves" it
00:05:49kugelpixelma: do you have a certain playlist to reproduce the abort?
00:05:58 Join moos [0] (i=Mustapha@rockbox/staff/moos)
00:06:22pixelmayes, do you not follow the bug reports you posted too?
00:06:37kugelI do, but seems I missed that part
00:06:50kadobanif you open a menu in, wormlet say..the status bar doesn't display right away soemtimes and the old top-of-screen stays there (and looks pretty ugly). is this the same bug as FS #9817, or separate? i can't tell
00:07:31kugelpixelma: can you watch if the track count is incrementing right before the abort?
00:08:07pixelmatrack count incrementing?
00:08:31 Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:09:28pixelmawhere - in the debug screen or in the WPS or something? If it's the former, I'm not sure I'll be able to get to the debug screen in 8 seconds
00:09:43JdGordon_kugel: there is a max metadata size iirc, but buffering will never load it partialy... i tihnk if it fails because there isnt enough room, it will try again from the start later when there is rom
00:10:59kugelpixelma: in the debug buffering screen
00:11:30kugelwell, I am able to reach it. It's at ~55% when I come in
00:11:54kugelJdGordon_: well, that was my guess. Good guess it seems, but already been thought of ;)
00:12:24kugelbut it seems related to that only a few bytes go into the buffer
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00:15:36JdGordon_sim_open() is always either returning 5 or -1... does that sound correct?
00:16:03pixelmakugel: track count is not incrementing right before the crash (already at 5 for a second or two)
00:16:48PaulJam_JdGordon_: do you run the uisim with cygwin? i occassionally get this "installation incomplete" splash after the sim crashes (i think in situations where i would get a segfault under native linux)
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00:17:04JdGordon_PaulJam_: no, linux
00:17:12kugelpixelma: hmm, so not related to partial buffering
00:17:15kugelno idea then :/
00:17:27kugelI can't reproduce in the sim, which is sad
00:18:34tonytaylorhey guys- i have some hardware to donate if anyone is interested
00:18:55kugelwhich, if I may ask?
00:19:05tonytaylorsansa fuze 2 gig
00:19:12tonytaylori bought it for the screen
00:19:18tonytaylori broke mine on my 8 gig
00:19:38tonytaylori'm not sure how much use it is without a screen but you guys are welcome to it
00:20:35kugelwell, once rockbox runs, it's pretty usefull without screen
00:21:25amiconnkugel: You won't be able to reproduce a data abort in the sim, unless you're running it on an arm linux box
00:22:02amiconnData abort means an unaligned access happened, and afaik x86 can do unaligned accesses
00:23:37amiconnHmm, or maybe not....
00:23:58tonytaylorwell if anyone wants it, email me.
00:24:10amiconnBut the sim is too different for this kind of bug (only happens under certain conditions etc)
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00:41:00taylor_does anyone here have a 4/5/5.5 g classic?
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00:45:48taylor__anyone here have a 4g/5g or 5.5g nano?
00:46:07BigBambiHow do I force a blank line in latex? I thought it was \\* but it doesn't seem to be doing it
00:46:38Qball\\ is newline not blankline right
00:46:45Lloreantaylor__: What is a 5G or 5.5G Nano?
00:47:16BigBambiI have \warn{stuff} then \opt{target}{\note{stuff}} and whilst it works there is blank line between the warning and the note
00:47:21BigBambiQball: yeah
00:47:34taylor__ooppss... sory I meant 5 g Classic
00:47:38BigBambi*there is NO blank line
00:47:59Lloreantaylor__: The "Classic" is the 6th generation.
00:48:16LloreanDo you just mean a 4G 5G or 5.5G in the classic form factor? (note differences in capitalization)
00:48:38n1sBigBambi: and putting \\ between them makes no difference?
00:49:02BigBambin1s: No - they are already on a new line, but I want a blank line as well
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00:50:30BigBambiOK, don't worry, I've managed it
00:50:47taylor__does anyone here own one of these?
00:50:51BigBambiI played around with the position of \\* - I had it in the wrong place relative to my }
00:52:08n1sah, yes it seems to be ignored in some cases if it is inside the }
00:53:09n1sif you look at getting_started/main.tex for example it uses \\ to force newlines between \warn{], \note{} and \blind}
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00:53:35BigBambin1s: Yep, but it was a blank line I specifically wanted, not just a new line
00:54:07n1shmm but those have \\ inside } ...
00:54:26n1sBigBambi: i'm not sure i understand the difference
00:54:35BigBambin1s: In fact I had to put my \\* inside } to get it - it didn't work outside
00:54:55BigBambin1s: New line doesn't have a space inbetween, it is just a new line
00:55:11BigBambiAs in line 1 - blah blah, line 2 - different blah blah
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00:55:34BigBambiBut a blank inbetween would be line 1 - blah blah, line 2 - blank, line 3 - different blah blah
00:56:19n1sthe way it's done in the example i posted above results in what you wanted then
00:56:46BigBambiAnyway, I have to go to bed now - I'll try and get this finihed tomorrow
00:56:52n1sand it's consistent with your finding that for some reason \\ has to go inside the }
00:57:05BigBambicheerio :_
00:57:14BigBambigah, :)
00:59:12n1sanyway i think we are way too liberal in using \warn{} in the manual, it should only be used for things worth warnign about
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01:02:11Unhelpfulamiconn: you could have a dump_line that moves almost everything platform-specific out of screen_dump. if it's defined above screen_dump, you could even inline it.
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01:02:41Unhelpfuli'm imagining something like the scaler's output_row, only without the option of swapping output functions via function pointer.
01:02:44amiconnYou cannot inline it if it's define in the lcd-<pixelformat>.c
01:03:14amiconnAnd if it resides elsewhere, you won't get rid of the ifdefs - but that's what kugel suggested
01:03:31*amiconn thinks the ifdefs in screendump aren't too nasty
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01:04:03*kugel tends to disagree
01:06:27*kugel spots a new job for Unhelpful ;)
01:07:17Unhelpfulamiconn: no, you can't inline it and move it out of screendump.c, but you can move it out of screen_dump. i'm not sure it's worthwhile, it really only was for scalers because we wanted to make it pluggable, and because there were two callers, so turning inline code into a function was a binsize saving
01:07:50cool_walking_taylor__: I've got a 5G.
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01:08:15kugelI think screen_dump is just as lcd-format specific as all other stuff in lcd-<format>.c, so it should be moved into that
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01:11:07n1shmm, binsize table seems to not be updating, or lagging badly
01:11:45taylor__@cool_walking cool :] can you try something for me?
01:11:56n1sanyways, goodnight
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01:13:27Unhelpfulkugel: the problem is that most it, aside from the inner loop, isn't. especially if one moves the declarations for shift, val, etc, into the inner loop
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01:15:30amiconnThere's also a similar function in grey_core.c (the greylib screendump hook). Right now it's possible to compare fairly easily
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01:19:56cefnHello I'd like write permissions to wiki for new user account CefnHoile, or for someone to add a link to"> (note trailing slash) in the page. I'm providing a blind-navigable alternative for a public domain audiobook resource The catalog at is almost useless and I'd like to unlock t
01:22:33cefnAlso I'd like feedback from blind users whether there are any other features or lists which would help them navigate. I'll add contact details in the next hour or so after I've finished an update of the site.
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01:29:42Lloreancefn: I'm not sure I understand why that's considered a Rockbox resource.
01:30:32cool_walking_taylor__: Probably. What is it?
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01:34:54cefnI think I read the purpose of this page more widely - resources relevant to blind users of rockbox, rather than resources only directly about rockbox for blind users. Don't know where else I could present this link which would reach the relevant userbase and help me improve the resource, but fair enough if you think it's not relevant
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01:56:47taylor__its been confirmed by cool_walking_ that a 5g crashes under this "long url overflow" which means we might be able to look at the 5g code to see what is happening here ;)
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02:12:48rashertaylor__: not bad
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02:13:43taylor__yeah - its a good start, but DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO READ ARM ASM??? ;)
02:15:14saratogai guess the next step would be to try and get it working on the 5G and then hope apple didn't change anything on the later models
02:17:29Lloreantaylor__: Seriously, there's a reference manual and google.
02:17:34LloreanYou don't need to shout about it.
02:18:01taylor__@saratoga now every ipod capable of viewing notes is vulnerable to the crash
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02:18:51taylor__Llorean: I plan on building a ARM/ipod firmware debugger for this
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02:30:08saratogataylor__: I don't know what you mean by that, but you will have to learn ARM assembly for this idea of yorus to work
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03:18:50webguest98Hi On e200 I hold select, and I power it on, it will go into rockbox then it shows a usb cable, then it reboots to O
03:19:04webguest98what Am I doing wrong
03:20:18webguest98can anyone hear me?
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03:21:58soapI assume, webguest98, that you do not have a USB cable inserted? Or any other device attached to the dock port?
03:22:56webguest98also did something change in rockbox, how come now it takes forever to charge?
03:23:12webguest98It's at 60% and it says 15hours
03:23:18webguest98before that's like 100%
03:23:37webguest98it takes 4hours before to charge, now it's a lot slower
03:23:50soapbefore = with OF?
03:23:58soapor before = with Rockbox?
03:24:07webguest98all with of
03:24:33webguest98did someone improve battery life or something?
03:25:06soapBattery life has been on a pretty steady upwards climb with the Sansa since inception.
03:27:12webguest98is it safer to charge with rockbox or OF?
03:28:11scorcheit isnt any more dangerous with either device, but you might be better off charging in the OF for now
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03:30:31webguest99The version in january is about 14hours, but now all of a sudden, I think I can get 20 hours
03:30:35webguest99its really weird
03:31:14soapNo, strides have been made in battery life as I said - and if you use MP3 make that great strides have been made.
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06:45:53sapwas wondering if there's a rockbox alternative for the creative zen microphoto player. Rockbox doesn't seem to support that, but I'd like to install a similar open-source firmware to my microphoto. :)
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07:09:35Unhelpfulto the best of my knowledge, there aren't really any others that support that device, either.
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09:26:24_rossy_im not sure if this is significant, but the E100 uses the same format for firmware upgrades as other Actions based players
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09:27:26B4gderwe still haven't figured it out, so it doesn't help that much atm
09:28:13_rossy_hmm, ok
09:28:47_rossy_there is a large userbase for Actions/RockChip players
09:29:01_rossy_its possible that someone could have cracked the encryption
09:29:03B4gderyes, but not very many developers it seems...
09:29:09Zagorare those the 8-bit chipsets?
09:29:20B4gderno, they're arm
09:29:32B4gderor was it mips?
09:29:53_rossy_i thought they were m68k
09:30:03B4gderI'm quite sure they are not m68k
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09:30:15B4gderI think we have a data sheet link somewhere
09:32:37B4gder"MIPS 4KEc"
09:33:35B4gderthe chinese things tend to be MIPS after all
09:35:10B4gderI can't find any mention of what endian mode they use it in
09:36:13 Part ch4os
09:37:23_rossy_there are some programs around that say they can replace images in the firmware
09:37:28_rossy_such as this
09:37:59_rossy_although it explicity states it doesn't support encrypted firmware images
09:40:04B4gderthat would imply different firmware formats then
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09:42:29_rossy_i wonder what would happen if i dragged a generic actions firmware onto my E100...
09:43:03B4gderI'd guess there's a significant brick risk
09:43:16_rossy_yeah, theres no way i'd try it
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09:45:47_rossy_but, if it worked, that would imply that unencrypted actions images could work as well
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09:55:40BdN3504hey, i want to create a patch but the first obstacle i am facing is that i don't where which code i'd have to modify. Could someone help me out?
09:56:40BdN3504i want to add an entry to the context menu for cfg files...
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09:57:18BdN3504preferably for cfg files found in the theme directory
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09:59:38BdN3504i have looked on the patch tracker for patches which address to change the menus but have only come up with the add item to quickscreen theme which might be a little helpful
10:00:32Zagor_rossy_: don't the various actions players use different displays?
10:00:57_rossy_i think so, but 320x240 is a common one
10:01:33B4gderZagor: still, we'd only need to know if they "accept" the unencrypted firmware to know that it would work, it wouldn't actually have to work
10:01:54_rossy_how would we know it worked then? :)
10:02:14B4gder_rossy_: it depends on how the upgrade procedure works
10:02:23B4gdermost systems reject bad files immediately
10:02:30_rossy_ah, i see
10:03:01B4gderbut then we'd also need a recovery approach to be able to run test versions
10:03:21_rossy_it'd be nice if the firmware upgrading process wasn't part of the main firmware file
10:03:38_rossy_i assume there's no way to know whether it is or not
10:04:07B4gderin most cases we support dual-booting for exactly such purposes
10:06:27BdN3504<B4gder> where are the contextmenu entries defined?
10:06:37Zagoris there a overview somewhere over player make/models who use these chips?
10:07:49 Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:09:39B4gderZagor: I can't find any...
10:09:51B4gderBdN3504: I suggest using find and grep
10:10:53ZagorI'm not convinced those "mp4" are as similar as some people think.
10:11:29B4gderI agree
10:11:43B4gderATJ makes different chips, so does RockChip and the ChinaChips
10:13:19BdN3504can i use grep on the VM offered on the rbsite?
10:13:37B4gderBdN3504: can't you just try it?
10:14:47BdN3504i am currently writing from a notebook with winxp on which i don't have neither vmware installed nor downloaded the image, so no.
10:15:03B4gderand how are you planning to write the patch again?
10:15:56B4gderthat's not really a good way to write code
10:15:57BdN3504well at home somehow, but i have dled the source so i can search what parts i'd have to modify, can't i?
10:16:19B4gderapparently you don't have the sufficient tools I'd say
10:16:31B4gderbut that's me
10:16:45BdN3504which tools would you recommend for me to create a patch?
10:17:04B4gder1. a complete build environment
10:17:11B4gder2. a text editor you like
10:17:24B4gder3 profit!
10:17:42GodEater_you forgot 2a) Patience and 2b) Trial and Error
10:18:15*B4gder doesn't know about those! ;-)
10:19:09BdN3504well all that i got at home, but i thought you could shine a lil light... i thought i'd have to edit option_select.c menu.c and settings_menu.c
10:23:26BdN3504hm maybe you could just tell me how you like the idea of the patch i had in mind, because if it's going to get rejected anyway i wouldn't have to go through all the programming hassle.
10:24:11B4gderI don't really have an opinion, it's not a feature I would use
10:25:28BdN3504... i didn't mention what i wanted.... did you look at the forum post?
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11:38:22havienbrb reboot
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11:41:37kadobanAnyone with an M3 not busy? I'm trying to get FS #7369 submitted, but the M3 keypad is almost certainly bad.
11:50:50daurnhey guys
11:50:57daurnhows the progress on the fuze?
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12:44:25*LambdaCalculus37 pokes kadoban
12:44:44kadobanhi :)
12:45:05kadobando you have an M3 perchance?
12:45:19LambdaCalculus37I wish. ;)
12:45:28LambdaCalculus37kadoban: I'm going to try out FS #7369 out for myself to see how it works.
12:45:35kadobanoh okay, great
12:45:39LambdaCalculus37amiconn is the only dev I know with one.
12:46:46LambdaCalculus37Although I wish the patch played Go as well, I'm not going to nitpick. It still looks cool anyway.
12:47:27kadobanyeah, i kind of wish it played go too, but there's no easy AI code to pull in (everything is not-fixed-point and/or uses a huge amount of RAM)
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12:48:21LambdaCalculus37Indeed. But you can always check out the chessbox plugin; IIRC that was based on some GNU chess game and was tailored to run within the confines of an embedded system.
12:48:38LambdaCalculus37That would give a good basis for a Go game.
12:49:50kadobanWell...chess AIs are fundamentally different from Go AIs, for every one I've seen. There's GNUGo, but in my opinion it's ugly and I'm not sure it even can be tailored down.
12:50:10kadobanI looked for simple 9x9 playing AIs that I could port, but there's not even that many open source ones
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12:51:16kadobanThere's some recent monty carlo based Go AIs that are looking nice, but I think they're all closed source...and probably require a lot of processing power
12:52:18LambdaCalculus37Yeah, they won't be suitable to port to Rockbox. You'd have an easier time porting Duke Nukem Forever. ;)
12:52:28kadobanIndeed :(
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12:55:10kadobanyeah, i still play to try to do something for an AI, but I think of it as mostly separate anyway. I doubt that it can even work on all targets
12:55:41soapI'm looking into having the Rockbox logo embroidered, and part of the set-up fee is "digitizing" (converting it to a stitch pattern). I am convinced from the people i've talked to that some of the smaller detail will not survive the process. Any thoughts on ?
12:56:03soapDid I go too far? Should I keep the yellow field @ the original width?
12:56:15LambdaCalculus37I think it looks fine.
12:56:24GodEater_me too
12:56:38Zagorlooks good to me. do you think the rings inside the 'o's will survive?
12:56:43LambdaCalculus37soap: What are you embroidering it onto?
12:56:50soapI'm afraid some of the construction lines might have to go as well, Zagor :(
12:57:01soapI'm awaiting feedback on that.
12:57:11*LambdaCalculus37 wants a towel
12:57:33ZagorI don't think that's a problem. the different colours and font sizes are probably enough to make it close enough
12:57:49LambdaCalculus37As long as you can recognize it for what it is.
12:58:00soapLambdaCalculus37, _I_ was thinking "mechanic's shirts". Logo embroidered on the right breast, "name tag" with embroidered IRCNick on left breast. For SCaLE.
12:58:17LambdaCalculus37soap: That works too. :)
12:58:21soapcan wear unbuttoned and untucked over the stock shirt.
12:58:42*LambdaCalculus37 won't be able to attend SCaLE, but he likes the sound of the shirt
12:58:48Zagorsoap: cool idea
12:59:07LambdaCalculus37soap: I was also thinking that they'd be ace for DevCon 2009.
12:59:54soapLambdaCalculus37, A - I can give you a shout when I get my price quotes in. B - the setup fee will be taken care of with this run. C - your nick is *huge* for a standard "name tag".
13:00:35LambdaCalculus37soap: Knock the 37 off of mine, then.
13:00:38soapThough I'm guessing we're talking ~$50
13:00:44*LambdaCalculus37 will save
13:00:48soapyea - THAT'S the long part of your nick.
13:01:44*LambdaCalculus37 has to go to work now
13:01:53LambdaCalculus37Gotta go!
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15:23:55pyro_maniacsoap: are these shirts for everyone?
15:31:42LambdaCalculus37pyro_maniac: I think they're for staff and developers only.
15:34:18pyro_maniachmm, so i have to hurry to get into this elite group ;-)
15:37:28pyro_maniacbut maybe its a good opportunity to get something for users too
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15:39:16gevaertspyro_maniac: you're free to make your own
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15:42:55Zagorwasn't there a cafepress shop a while back?
15:43:53gevaertsThere was. IIRC there was one order once, and it got returned
15:48:34LambdaCalculus37Zagor: Yes, Llorean used to run it, I believe.
15:49:08*kadoban would probably buy a t-shirt if one was available
15:49:57LambdaCalculus37kadoban: You can make your own shirt if you know a place that prints T-shirts.
15:50:42kadobanhmm, good point
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15:59:50mooskadoban: hi, did you fin someone to commit your plugin yet?
16:00:07zz79hi there! can anyone help me? i have a question and can't find answer on the faq or manual
16:00:08kadobanmoos: not yet :)
16:00:55kadobanmoos: actually i'm about to put up a new version...only a small change though
16:01:01zz79i have rockbox on an ipod mini 1st gen and it refuses to work with a headset remote or the remote functions from my dockbox
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16:02:35mooskadoban: If nobody seems interested to commit, I can do, because I canot leave this patch roting on the tracker.
16:02:37fmlShouldn't the plugin and codec API version be changed with the last commit?
16:03:12kadobanmoos: that would be wonderful :) a few people have said good things, but nobody has really said they're going to commit it...
16:03:45LambdaCalculus37kadoban: Not true; I also expressed interest in committing it.
16:03:54LambdaCalculus37But if moos wants to commit it, he's welcome to.
16:03:59mooskadoban: then I will unless someone is against
16:04:06jaykaykadoban: fs entry?
16:04:10kadobanLambdaCalculus37: sorry, i didn't know if you were going to commit it or were just interested :)
16:04:18kadobanjaykay: FS #7369
16:05:19LambdaCalculus37kadoban: I thought I mentioned that. :)
16:05:35kadobanLambdaCalculus37: ahaha, it's possible. i had just woken up
16:07:04mooskadoban: I guess you intend to continue to work on it in the futur? I mean if bugs apears, optimisations, new features...
16:07:34kadobanmoos: yes, especially if bugs come up...but also new features if they make sense
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16:07:53LambdaCalculus37Okay. I was hoping it wouldn't turn into another beatbox. :)
16:08:24mooshehe :)
16:10:00LambdaCalculus37Speaking of which, what should we do with the beatbox code? IIRC it doesn't compile correctly anymore, and the plugin barely does anything. It's also not compiled normally and looks like it hasn't been touched in years.
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16:11:19moosat least this is confined to plugins and don't disturb anything, maybe just wait and see the author back...
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16:37:01fmlJdGordon: have you seen FS #9877?
16:37:30fmlJdGordon: anf FS #9844 can be closed now IMO
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16:46:27chibitacticianHello all
16:47:03chibitacticianI am interested in how rockbox ports are made in depth as well as the coding and bootloader
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16:47:45Zagorchibitactician: great. ask what you want to know and we'll tell you where to read.
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16:48:06Zagorchibitactician: great. ask what you want to know and we'll tell you where to read.
16:48:27chibitacticianhow does the bootloader work?
16:50:24Zagorbasically it mounts the disk and reads the firmware file into ram
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16:51:56chibitacticiani found out on wikipedia that it is made w/ C can it be made with Python? and how hard is it for new ports to be made
16:52:14Zagorno it can not be made with python...
16:52:45Zagorhow to make a new port:
16:54:02chibitacticianok can i ask why i mean python is easy to use and can be turned to C code as well as machine language
16:54:36LambdaCalculus37Because Rockbox isn't written that way.
16:55:03gevaertsYou don't have the sort of low-level control in python that's needed for this sort of code
16:55:16chibitacticiank got u
16:55:40chibitacticiandoes anyone know how difficult it is
16:55:56Zagor"difficult" is a relative term
16:56:35Zagorit takes a lot of hardware research and reverse engineering, since we typically don't get any information from the manufacturers
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16:58:24chibitacticiani was wondering there are emulators for ipodlinux can any be made for rockbox like igpsp the gba emulator
16:59:08Zagorwe have a gameboy emulator. it's called rockboy.
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16:59:58chibitacticiangba=Game boy advance gb=gameboy gbc=gameboy color
17:00:19jaykayyeah thanks, as already said, rockbox has a gameboy emulator
17:00:26jaykaynothing more
17:00:38jaykayfeel free to write a gba emulator
17:01:08chibitacticianim not skilled in emucoding
17:01:16n1swe have a chip8 and zx spectrum (?) and pacman emulators too
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17:02:54chibitacticiani saw what we have but i am not skilled enough in coding at all. i wanted to try the (S)NES form but it looked difficult and all i got out some build environment junk and compiling
17:03:18kugelpixelma: I put a patch to the data abort task
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17:16:03n1sUnhelpful: just a thought, if you care much about speed in the pictureflow plugin it might be worthwhile to turn it into a "subdir" plugin so it gets its own makefile and can set custom compiler flags such as O2, which can make a big difference in some cases
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17:19:45fmlAny comments about increasing codec and plugin API version?
17:20:21kugelwhy codec?
17:21:00kugelwhy both anyway?
17:22:09fmlkugel: because functions have been removed there. Or are the conditions the same as before?
17:22:51kugelyou mean in r19971?
17:23:04kugelshould probably be done, yes
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17:52:12jhMikeSNo imcompatibily was introduced so I didn't bother. Only the names changed. Only dual-core was using those functions already.
18:03:48kugeljhMikeS: the structs changed, so the API version is to be incremented
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18:05:57kugelit's about plugins/codecs that are built against an older binary. if you build plugins against your version the API version doesn't matter, but if you don't, plugins won't work (and then they should rather exit with a usefull error message and not crash randomly or something like that)
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18:07:16amiconnkugel: The bump was unnecessary in this case
18:07:23jhMikeSkugel: it didn't change at all
18:07:34jhMikeSjust the name of the member
18:07:44amiconnThe names of the functions changed, but the functions still have the same signature
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18:08:10kugeloh, I see
18:09:08kugelwell, but it doesn't hurt, does it? at least I sorted the new things in
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18:10:28kugelnice reds on the table
18:10:39kugelkadoban: seems you'll have some work to do ;)
18:10:44kadobanmaking a patch :(
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18:12:34LambdaCalculus37kugel: The red was moos' fault. It was his commit.
18:12:51LambdaCalculus37But it was kadoban's code, so we blame him. ;)
18:12:54jhMikeSwhat got sorted in I was thinking about a completely different approach that amicon has suggested using swi
18:13:14kadobani think i have most of it, but i may have to exclude some targets, like D2 and such...not sure why D2 isn't red
18:14:38kadobanoh right, nevermind..D2 is touchpad
18:14:53moosLambdaCalculus37: you can blame on me :P
18:16:15moosbtw the Bagder's script seems to wor :)
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18:29:07kugelUnhelpful: ping
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18:42:29kugelmoos: int temp; (void)temp; ????
18:44:21kadobankugel: gets rid of the "unused" warning. not used on ipods, i didn't work out the logic yet
18:45:05kugelis temp used at all?
18:45:46kadobankugel: yes, on almost all targets...not sure on ipod, probably not. it should be ifdefd out probably, but that's the quick fix
18:49:09kugelkadoban: it's only used in that 1 case, right?
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18:49:39kugelI suppose it should be initialized in that case, and the case be a block
18:50:13kugellike this
18:50:54kadobankugel: hmm, that looks right indeed
18:51:03LambdaCalculus37moos: Still some reds left.
18:51:16kadobanworking on it...gotta exclude a few more targets
18:51:25kugelkadoban: should I commit? or does putting that stuff into a block break things
18:51:43moosLambdaCalculus37: yup, saw them waiting for kadoban
18:52:03kadobankugel: no idea :) i can test it, i gotta finish one other change thing first though
18:52:05LambdaCalculus37kadoban: It's the Archos targets and the ZVM.
18:52:21LambdaCalculus37The Recorder, V2 Recorder, and the Ondios.
18:52:33moosI'm sure he know, he have the table too ;)
18:53:18mooslet's him take his time and cook a full patch
18:53:50kugelbtw, I don't think we put spaces between the function names and the parenthesis
18:54:07*kadoban isn't sure why these didn't fail when i built them myself...
18:54:16kadobankugel: i don't think it's specified...i just used indent
18:54:52mooskugel: the patch followed our rules I think
18:55:15*domonoky doesnt care about this spaces, but the full function name (including the return type) should be on one line, unless its over 80 chars.
18:55:23moosbut the idea was first to get this in, let's cosmetic after
18:55:51linuxstbWhy are the Clip and M200s being excluded? Because they don't have enough buttons?
18:56:15kadobanlinuxstb: because i didn't know they were built yet and i didn't come up with a keypad yet. they probably can be in eventually/soon
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18:57:00kugelmoos: indeed, CONTRIBUTING isn't specific about this
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18:57:34mooslinuxstb: speaking unsuported targets, any news about gigabeat installation you was working on (even if I know you are busy :)
18:57:43*kadoban might be done...doing a test build or two
18:58:08linuxstbmoos: No, I've had zero time to do Rockbox things. I was sort of waiting for someone to fix the sendfirm licensing issue as well...
18:58:29kugelkadoban: include my patch and let moos commit
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18:58:54kadobankugel: yep, i included it...i'll send it to moos
18:59:11mooslinuxstb: hehe :)
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19:00:03linuxstbmoos: And quite a few people have been having problems with beast installation recently - the OF rejecting our updates and going into recovery mode. I haven't been following those closely though...
19:00:32*jhMikeS wonders why MCR WFI isn't being used for s3c2440 instead of that loop
19:00:39mooslinuxstb: yeah indeed, encountered myself some OF stranginess
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19:05:16mooskadoban's fix commited
19:05:33moosor kadoban+kugel's fix even :)
19:07:38pixelmathat ifdef looks weird
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19:08:36pixelmaand in case of the Archos it's not the reason for exclusion
19:10:17kadobanhmm, yeah i guess _PAD isn't really right. that bit will change once i come up with keypads for some of those though
19:11:29kadobanand i might be able to shrink those down to fit in RAM as well
19:12:10linuxstbAny idea how much your plugin is using?
19:12:31kadobannot really, no...i didn't know it was failing those builds...
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19:15:39mooswhat's about the philips? excluded too?
19:15:41linuxstbA comment in SUBDIRS explaining why those targets are excluded would be helpful - IIUC, some are because no-one has defined the keymap, and others are because of lack of memory.
19:16:05kadobanapparently i missed one, so i might as well fix them up and add a comment...doing it now
19:16:16*linuxstb wonders if there is a PLUGIN_RAM define available in SUBDIRS
19:16:24mooskadoban: do the 2 in the same rush
19:16:30moosoops too slow
19:16:30linuxstbOr PLUGIN_BUFFERSIZE or similar...
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19:17:12mooshaha :D moos is spamed by the tracker mail
19:17:30pixelmathere are those plugins which grab the audio buffer with those overlay loaders (rockboy, jpegviewer)
19:17:51pixelmaor how that's called
19:17:55linuxstbYes, seems to be PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE in config-$target.h which should be available.
19:18:22amiconnkadoban: If your plugin is too large to fit in 32KB of plugin ram on archoses, it could be made to work by making it an overlay, like chessbox, rockboy and zxbox
19:18:52kadobanamiconn: hmm, i'm not sure what that entails, but I can look into it.
19:18:59amiconnDo you know how much the plugin exceeds the available plugin buffer size?
19:19:22kadobanno idea...hopefully not by much. i'm hoping that i can just shrink a buffer or two somewhere
19:19:28amiconnCurrently it requires some manual linker script fiddling, but fixing that is already on my todo list
19:20:06amiconnThen making a plugin an overlay would become relatively easy. Might be useful on other lowmem targets as well
19:20:11kugelmoos: so the red mail is coming from the -cvs ml?
19:20:36mooskugel: From the tracker one.
19:20:53kugelfrom the tracker ml?? uh
19:21:23*kugel thought Bagder made it coming from -cvs
19:21:29linuxstbmoos: They're being sent from "", but to the cvs mailing list.
19:22:11mooslinuxstb: ok
19:23:08*amiconn got no red mails y'day
19:23:36moosamiconn: Got it here
19:24:44amiconnmoos: I'm not subscribed to that list. Never was...
19:25:23moosthat explain it then :)
19:26:12pixelmabtw. if you exclude the plugins for the Archos targets for now, it should also be excluded from their manuals...
19:26:33LambdaCalculus37The GoGear HDD1630 is the only target that still has red.
19:26:41kadobanpixelma: hmm, good point
19:26:44LambdaCalculus37kadoban: Better fix it.
19:27:03amiconnWell until now there really was no reason to. The svn commits are shown on the website, why would I need that dubbed as a mail?
19:27:04kadobanLambdaCalculus37: yeah, working on it...
19:27:38Bagderamiconn: I think it's easier to review commits when they arrive as mail, but of course that's matter of taste
19:27:55amiconnSomeone have a file handy? (preferably from a coldfire target)
19:28:47*amiconn prefers looking at the viewvc diffs
19:28:53*kadoban has no idea what PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE to require...i'm doing 0x60000 for now
19:29:47amiconnkadoban: The .map files tell you, hence my request...
19:32:56bertrikthe svn:eol-style properties should probably be applied to the newly added files
19:33:24amiconnbertrik: Why? native is the default anyway afaik
19:33:54bertrikoh is it? almost all other source files in rockbox seem to have it
19:34:01bluebrotherdomonoky: around?
19:34:21amiconnbertrik: I know. I guess this is from the CVS to SVN conversion
19:34:47amiconnMaybe there is a reason though and I should re-read the svn docs...
19:35:40bluebrotherI was trying to find a solution for the remount issue on OS X (faked it on linux)
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19:36:39bluebrotherinterestingly the code gives me a warning of a signal not connecting
19:36:49moosbertrik: oh I thought that I was good
19:37:20bluebrotherObject::connect: No such slot BootloaderInstallIpod::checkRemount()
19:37:29bluebrotherdiff is here:
19:37:31bertriknow I'm not so sure myself about what to do (whether to add it or not)
19:37:35bluebrotherany idea what I'm doing wrong?
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19:39:38bertrikwho's the resident svn expert?
19:40:07moosZagor? Bagder?
19:41:21domonoky1bluebrother: where is this connect ? i dont find it in the diff ?
19:41:34kadobanamiconn: is there a reason you suggested coldfire file? (recorder and ondio are sh, right?)
19:42:17amiconnYes. The archoses are SH1, but they all have the small plugin buffer. Coldfire code size is closer to SH1 code size than ARM
19:42:25bluebrotherdomonoky1: it's the QTimer call
19:42:33kadobanoh i see, thanks
19:43:21amiconnFor most binaries, SH1_code_size < coldfire_code_size < arm_code_size. Coldfire is usually closer to SH1 than arm in this formula
19:43:22bluebrotherhmm, using a "real" timer instead of the single shot static one might be an idea ...
19:44:01domonoky1perhaps its because its a protected slot ? maybe test with a public slot.
19:46:05bertrikThere's a ~/.subversion/config file that indicates what properties to set automatically when adding a new file
19:46:53moosupdate this page then? :)
19:47:34amiconnImo we should provide an svn autoprops config for rockbox
19:48:39mooshow hard is to do so?
19:49:22moosjust provide a subversion config file?
19:50:09kadobanis the size just "plugin_end_addr - plugin_start_addr"? (about 40k) or is there an easier way to tell the minimum PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE? here's the map if it helps:
19:50:15bluebrotherhmm, using a public slot didn't change anything
19:51:47amiconnkadoban: yes
19:52:05bluebrotherwow. The #if was the culprit :o
19:52:40amiconnSo in order to make it work on archos without resorting to an overlay, you'd need to reduce the size by about 8KB (40KB->32KB)
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19:53:44kadobanthat might be doable, i'll have to play with it...for now i'll just exclude them though
19:54:31moosthen do I have to exclude the philips build too for now?
19:55:02kadobanmoos: yes, i have a patch, checking it also removes them from the archos manual for now
19:55:06amiconn33KB code, 3KB read-only data, 664 byte initialized data, and >3KB bss
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19:55:41mooskadoban: ok, then I'll wait for your patch :)
19:56:35bluebrothernice, now it works. I'm still surprised that the preprocessor made it not work :/
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20:01:36kadobanmoos: here it is hard to test, but i think that's right
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20:02:29moosI will precise in the commit message, that more suported targets are coming soon. Hence you fixed RAM usage issue and keymappings
20:02:50kadobanyes, i'll work on those keymaps right after this...assuming no more reds
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20:07:44*BigBambi has mutilated the installation chapter beyond recognition :)
20:09:31mooskadoban: commited
20:10:08kadobanmoos: nice. hope that's the last of the reds...
20:10:32mooshehe :)
20:10:44moosit will
20:11:55moosbe green I mean, of course
20:13:10kadobanahah, yes...
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20:19:08kadobanthank god, all green. thanks moos, and everyone else :)
20:19:33moosnp, thanks to you, for your amazing plugin
20:19:58*moos can go cook dinner and prepar for the soccer match ;)
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20:26:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:32:22LambdaCalculus37We're 22 commits away from 20000! :)
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20:34:10PISSEDOFFGreat job on the new release. I tried rb a couple years ago and its come along way.
20:34:45PISSEDOFFI do have a question though. Is there anyway for me to sync or transfer ratings to and from itunes on a mac?
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20:47:05BigBambiPISSEDOFF: I don't think so, no
20:47:30PISSEDOFFok, thanks BigBambi
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20:50:17evilnick_230PISSEDOFF: Check here:
20:50:57PISSEDOFFthanks evilnick_230
20:51:35evilnick_230There's not exactly good news though! It seems that there's no way currently to transfer the ratings.
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20:55:38PISSEDOFFi might be able to use sansamonkey in a vm. I'll post in the forums if i find a good solution for other mac users
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21:07:30rasherUnhelpful: Is there any reason that doesn't just use its own path rather than jumping through hoops to try and locate the src dir?
21:08:02rasherUnhelpful: While I'm add it, the head -n 1 is still there
21:08:53rasherUnhelpful: Doing TOP=.. is quite an assumption
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21:32:46casainhohello :-)
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21:35:22casainhocan someone help me and tell how do I do turn debug when configure for the bootloader?
21:36:50casainhowell, lloks like I can turn debug on when building the bootloader :-(
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21:37:14casainhoif I do Advanced, it simple builds the firmware, no way to choose the bootloader, I think
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21:53:08casainhooh, turning on the DEBUG on configure for the firmware, just turns on the DEBUGF, and I was looking for the "-g" option for the GCC...
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22:11:04*domonoky1 detects an article about rockbox in a random pc magazin, i got for free. It even has rbutil on their CD.
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22:19:47bluebrotherdomonoky1: any known magazine?
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22:21:31domonoky1not really. Its
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22:24:56jaykayindeed not the most famous one in germany
22:25:19*jaykay should get the latest com!...
22:25:27BigBambiDoes a sansa/ipod install on Mac need root rights? I assume so, but want to check. Also, is that wat they call it on Mac?
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22:32:04linuxstbBigBambi: I don't think so, at least for ipods.
22:32:19BigBambilinuxstb: OK, thanks
22:32:19linuxstbBut it's been a long time since I tried.
22:32:48linuxstbCheck the manual (i.e. not rbutil) install instructions - they should be accurate (again, for the ipod at least).
22:33:05linuxstbI wrote them, and at the time I had a Mac.
22:33:19BigBambilinuxstb: Yes, I couldn't find it in there (it is what I am editing), but I just wanted to check
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22:34:58linuxstbBigBambi: Also, the existing instructions say to install Rockbox first, and _then_ the bootloader. This is on purpose (so the user isn't stuck with a bootloader that can't load anything).
22:35:08linuxstbAlthough I think rbutil does it the other way around.
22:35:43BigBambilinuxstb: What I'm trying to do is streamline it, as there is lots of info in the manual install bit only that is also useful for automaticv
22:36:15BigBambilinuxstb: So I'm trying to group common info and then have a smaller manual install section
22:36:48BigBambiAnd also cut out some repeated and (to my mind) not relevent info that only servers to confuse
22:37:18 Quit nibbler_ ("Ex-Chat")
22:37:38BigBambilinuxstb: But as I don't own some of the targets, and it is a fairly large overhaul, it'll need reading by plenty of people to point out where I've accidently cocked up something vital or useful
22:37:47BigBambi(I've obviously tried not to)
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22:38:16evilnick_230I've got a small-ish question about the button mappings: using a sansa e200 series, it seems that pressing Power should revert from the Track Info screen to WPS but you have to press either >>| or |<<.
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22:40:55pixelmalinuxstb: I *believe* there is still a note about unmounting (or so) the Ipod before the bootloader installation in the "manual install" part and IIRC you said ipodpatcher would do it on its own - so if it's still in there it should go, right?
22:40:55pixelmalinuxstb: I *believe* there is still a note about unmounting (or so) the Ipod before the bootloader installation in the "manual install" part and IIRC you said ipodpatcher would do it on its own - so if it's still in there it should go, right?
22:40:55pixelmaI *believe* there is still a note about unmounting (or so) the Ipod before the bootloader installation in the "manual install" part and IIRC you said ipodpatcher would do it on its own - so if it's still in there it should go, right?
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22:41:25pixelma_I *believe* there is still a note about unmounting (or so) the Ipod before the bootloader installation in the "manual install" part and IIRC you said ipodpatcher would do it on its own - so if it's still in there it should go, right?
22:41:36pixelma_^ linuxstb
22:41:49BigBambipixelma: 4 times :P
22:42:05pixelma_I'm sorry
22:42:09BigBambihehe :)
22:42:39pixelma_I didn't see my messages get through
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22:44:43linuxstbpixelma: I think that's gone from the manual now. At least, I can't see it here -
22:45:32BigBambiDoes the H100 ever give a -1 error and stop? Doesn't it just go straight to the OF? I can't check mine as RB is flashed to it
22:47:42pixelmalinuxstb: can't see it anymore either... and sorry again
22:48:31linuxstbpixelma: No problem :)
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23:00:46BigBambipixelma (and others): This is where I'm at at the moment - please let me know if you think I am going in the right direction or not:
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23:04:59linuxstbBigBambi: Have you thought about moving the "not rbutil" install method into an appendix. I wouldn't want to lose those instructions, but it seems unnecessary to offer two different install methods to the average user.
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23:05:29BigBambilinuxstb: Yes, I asked about that yesterday, and pixelmasaid she preferred to keep them for now :)
23:05:52BigBambilinuxstb: My initial thought was to move them :)
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23:09:17pixelmaonly as long as they contain info which is not in the automted installation part yet - and actually I'd like to not have such a hard cut between the two. Keeping everything together which is true for both and just a small branch for the actual difference (if possible)
23:09:46BigBambipixelma: That's what I've tried to do
23:10:11pixelmaI should have a closer look
23:10:31BigBambiI moved info stuff to the start, then have the two methods where they differ, then have a finishing installation section that is common to both
23:12:10*domonoky1 also prefers to keep them inplace, until "someone" improved rbutil, so that you really dont need the manual instructions.
23:12:16pixelmathat's how I imagined it... but I should really read before commenting further
23:13:12BigBambiI'll do a quick tidy up then put a work in progress patch on flyspray along with a range of manuals
23:13:43BigBambiwork in progress in the sense that I'm sure people will think of improvements/changes/want to scrap it etc :)
23:14:30*bluebrother wonders what exactly rbutil needs to get improved
23:14:50bluebrotherbetter autodetection, handling of multiple devices, and ...?
23:14:56BigBambibluebrother: The ability to install ipod/sansa bootloaders? :P
23:15:10 Quit slowmoe ()
23:15:15bluebrotherhmm. Can't we do that already?
23:15:35BigBambibluebrother: I'm referring to the bug in 1.0.8 and 1.0.9
23:16:04bluebrotherwell, we just need to create a new release ;-)
23:16:21BigBambiyep :) I was just winding you up more than anything :)
23:16:23bluebrotherthough I want to finish the remount fix for osx I'm working on first.
23:16:30domonoky1the ability to better guide dump users ? :-)
23:16:38bluebrotherdump users? ;-)
23:16:50bluebrother"you are a dumb user, go away" *g*
23:17:06pixelmabluebrother: better feedback for targets where you have to take care of something after putting the "bootloader files" on the player (Iaudios, H100/300). Last I looked it mentioned this together in a splash with the "successful" message and people tend to click them away without reading much
23:17:22pixelmaif it's already changed, I apologise
23:18:01*pixelma also too slow
23:18:24bluebrotherlast you looked? The bootloader rewrite (which also introduced the "no sansa" bug) changed that. Please tell me if the messages are still too brief
23:18:24BigBambiI have now moved those instructions out of the manual install only section of the manual into a general one, which might help. Of course, it would be good for rbutil to say that too
23:18:45BigBambier, which it does :P
23:19:38linuxstbbluebrother: Regarding "what exactly in rbutil needs to get improved" - I would say "Can a user download rbutil and install Rockbox to the stage of it booting without ever reading the manual?" (I haven't used rbutil recently, so don't know).
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23:24:54bluebrotherlinuxstb: well, that of course raised the question on how much technical knowlege we can assume for the average user
23:24:58pyro_maniachi there, I have a question. I am trying to port rockbox to samsung yh 920. now I compiled a h10 5G build with the lcd driver of the h100. on booting the player the screen first shows the samsung logo and after thatan empty screen. now I connected the player to windows and that noticed a rockbox player media. is this a normal behavior?
23:25:16linuxstbbluebrother: The same knowledge as the manual currently does...
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23:26:09gevaertspyro_maniac: that means you're getting pretty far
23:26:12bluebrotherwell, then I'd say the things missing are (1) multiple player detection, (2) more user friendly autodetection and (3) working Quickstart installations :)
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23:27:16pyro_maniacso this means that the h10 5g build partly works?
23:27:42gevaertspyro_maniac: have a look at and then study logf() a bit. If you find a linux PC, you can get debug output
23:28:42linuxstbbluebrother: I've just downloaded rbutil and (trying to think like a new user) am running it. The first thing that happens is that I get the dialog about "new installation or new version". It doesn't tell me that I should now attach my player, or (for devices that need special handling) how I need to connect (i.e. in UMS mode).
23:29:25pyro_maniacgevaerts: thanks, I will try
23:29:38bluebrotherhmm. Good point.
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23:33:50pixelmaspeaking of portalplayer USB, I have the *impression* that the resets problem got worse lately, unfortunately I can't give numbers. It's just that when I first tried in the beginning of January I didn't notice any slowdown when my c200 was connected to the PC's backport so didn't check if resets still happened, yesterday there was a slowdown (first tried with a 2 weeks old build, then updated)
23:33:57 Quit CaptainKwel (" ajax IRC Client")
23:34:36pixelmaconnected to the frontports was unusable back then too and still is
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23:35:59pixelmanot sure how to measure,
23:36:25 Quit itcheg (" ajax IRC Client")
23:36:27gevaertsThe problem with these resets is that they are basically random. What actually happens is that there are lots of transmission errors (always, even for people who don't see resets), and if you happen to have a bunch close together the PC resets the bus.
23:37:25gevaertsSo the only way to measure reliably is to actually measure the number of low-level errors, and for that you need a hardware tracer
23:38:07pixelmaI see. Thanks for the info
23:38:14gevaertsbut I'm not sure if this number is very interesting. Either we have errors or we don't. On the beast there are zero errors
23:38:25gevaertsSame for the sansa OF
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23:39:55linuxstbbluebrother: BTW, I think "ipod colour" should be "ipod color" - it's Apple's model name.
23:40:43linuxstb(in the target list in rbutil)
23:41:05bluebrothergood point. Will change.
23:42:05bluebrotherwe should make model names consistent too −− currently we have Ipod (as in the manual) but iAudio
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23:45:04kadobanis there any way to test every build in the build table at once?
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23:46:13Bagderkadoban: not really, but there are some scripts you can play with to get there
23:46:23Bagderlike these =>
23:46:44kadobanBagder: ah okay, thanks
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23:53:43 Quit maddler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:53:53 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
23:53:54SoapWorkSomething scorche and I had been thinking about taking to SCaLE was a couple of posters about Rockbox. I have a wide format (48") photo printer at work, and can make a Rockbox Logo banner, and as I understand there will be room also at the Rockbox table for two posters.
23:54:04 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
23:54:31SoapWorkI am busy as s*&^ right now, and wanted to throw the idea out there, and perhaps someone would be interested in designing one of (or both) of the posters.
23:57:00SoapWorkI was _thinking_ something perhaps along the lines of a reworked "Why Rockbox" summary as one of the posters. Perhaps the other poster could be "Rockbox Facts" - including some of the geekier details such as # of active commiters, details on the build system, different architectures supported - how differences between architectures are delt with, some history, hurdles legal technical and other, etc etc.
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