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#rockbox log for 2009-02-14

00:01:17pixelmaBigBambi: I think opt lcd_bitmap and the lcd_non-mono is currently also redundant as the one charcell display is monochrome too (and I don't think we'll ever see another charcell display, let alone a colour one)
00:02:18BigBambiI'm doing by target opt for now, as you say it seems the simplest in lieu of fixing invadrox
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00:05:50*BigBambi is enjoying manualing atm!
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00:07:02pixelmamaybe you can use a mixture like \opt{lcd_non-mono}{\nopt{h10_5gb,ipodmini,c200}{ so you don't have to write out the different Archos ones
00:07:35BigBambipixelma: I've just done it with \opt{all the ones it works on}{ :)
00:08:52BigBambibut yes, that way would be shorter
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00:17:32*BigBambi feels some sim building/screen shot making coming on
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00:32:53martian67happy 1234567890
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00:45:21jdsalingerHas anyone else experienced text viewer to hang for about 10 seconds when going back up a page?
00:45:50jdsalingerI'm using iPod Video
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00:59:59Unhelpfulok, i'm just sort of outlining here, an implementation of a bufalloc allocator, intended to work from a buffer which is contiguous from a start address to an end address... i'm thinking that there can be an array of pointers to spaces, that grows down from the top of the buffer, so that when a caller wants the pointer associated with handle h, it's just a matter of returning pointer_tbl[-h]. allocations will grow from the bottom of the
01:00:01Unhelpfulbuffer, and be prefixed with the length, and the index of their associated table entry... and everything will be kept 32-bit aligned, to make it easy to store pointers and int values as headers to allocated blocks, etc.
01:01:03Unhelpfulthere are some little details which can be used to speed allocation, like maintaining a pointer to the first free block, and the index of the first free handle, etc.
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01:04:19Unhelpfulallocation will be basically find the first free handle, find an appropriate buffer segment to use, move the "next free handle" index if needed, split the buffer into newly-allocated and still-free if necessary, and return the handle.
01:04:28 Quit Schmogel (Client Quit)
01:05:28Unhelpfulfree will be marking the buffer segment as unused, and merging it if one of its neighbors is already free, then flagging that slot as clear in the handle table.
01:06:16saratogaUnhelpful: whats the advantage verses a malloc?
01:06:27Unhelpfulcompaction can trigger when an allocation fails, and will consist of moving any allocated segments that follow unallocated ones forward, and updating their handle table entries.
01:07:10Unhelpfulsaratoga: the advantages are that we can do real compaction, and that the API can very closely mimic the audio-buffer-based bufalloc one, which some plugins already abuse for allocation
01:07:40saratogahow does compaction work? let the caller request it and then return the updated pointers?
01:09:42Unhelpfulbasically, a caller should request a new pointer for a handle any time it's yielded, or made an allocation, since an allocation can trigger compaction. since getting the pointer for a handle is a simple table lookup, we can even put that function in the header and inline it.
01:10:18saratogaand the advantage is that memory can be allocated from the audio buffer then without triggering a rebuffering?
01:10:42Unhelpfulor from the plugin buffer, if that's big enough.
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01:12:00Unhelpfulthere will probably need to be a buf_init call before any use, to tell it what range it's allocating from. if the plugin buffer is sufficient for a plugin's needs, it can use that. if not, it can steal a fixed chunk of audio buffer, and then perform allocations from that without having to interfere with playback again
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01:13:20Unhelpfulas i understand it, while playback is stopped, we can move the end of the audio buffer before restarting, basically?
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01:23:53Unhelpfuli was really more looking for opinions on whether this outline for implementing such an API is sane, but certainly it is worth considering whether the bufalloc API or the malloc API is more appropriate. i think it shouldn't be a problem, though, to have both in pluginlib or codeclib, and use whichever might be more appropriate to the situation. pictureflow will do many allocations and deallocations, possibly in varying sizes, so i want
01:23:55Unhelpfulto be able to compact to reclaim fragmented space.
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01:37:11BigBambiI have a patch that includes binary files (a manual patch including screen shots) - I have svn added the files, but clearly they don't appear in svn diff - when I put my patch on flyspray I assume I just attach the pngs as well?
01:37:41BigBambiAnd should I remove mention of them in the diff?
01:38:53Unhelpfulpatches are a text-only format, you will need to post an archive of the files on flyspray as well, for others to be able to look at them.
01:39:10BigBambiyeah, that's what I thought
01:39:31moosthe commiter will svn add them...
01:39:31BigBambiUnhelpful: I meant patch as in all inclusive, not as in a diff.patch style thing
01:40:15Unhelpfulright, svn can manage binary files, but the file format used by diff and patch can not.
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02:02:05Unhelpfulhrm, i think that having one allocator, that allocates from one buffer, is reasonable? that way, some things can be made static that would otherwise need to be passed to each API call in a context struct.
02:15:21Unhelpfulhrm, or i can implement them as context-based, and have wrappers that use a static context. that way is most flexible :)
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03:00:07kronfluxcan anyone direct me to the svn for rockbox, and the location of the current sansa fuze stuffs?
03:01:21kronfluxokay, I take back the svn part. that was a stupid question and I found it instantly :p
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03:05:24kronfluxbut still, can anyone direct me to the location of the current fuze um.. patch? or.. build? I don't know the right term. but I wanna mess around with it :)
03:05:55Unhelpfuli don't know anything about fuze. you're probably best off checking the forum thread for the latest new.
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03:21:44SoapWorkWebclient will not join #rockbox-community anymore?
03:23:34scorche|shit should..
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03:43:52kronfluxcan anyone help me out? I'm trying to compile the current fuze build, and I'm getting an error saying arm-elf-gcc cannot be found.
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03:44:00kronfluxI dont know what that means :p
03:45:18Unhelpfulit means you need to read the developer's guide first, and make sure that your development environment is set up properly:
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04:26:32caspy77well, it appears that within hours of receiving my new (inexpensive) MP3 player that it is unusable, I suppose I'll first need help restoring the bootloader
04:26:35caspy77I'm on a Mac
04:26:59caspy77I'm not sure what I did wrong, except it wouldn't eject and I powered it off
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04:27:08caspy77got an error
04:27:14caspy77now it won't boot at all
04:27:31caspy77any help?
04:27:51saratogawhat device?
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04:27:58caspy77sansa c250
04:28:02caspy77er, sorry 240
04:28:27caspy77btw, the one thing I don't know is how to determine what version it is as I read that v2 is not supported
04:28:30saratogawhat happens when you turn it on?
04:28:49caspy77it says "SanDisk" logo and just stays there
04:29:30saratogawhat did you do that made this happen?
04:29:50caspy77the concerning thing is that it's not even showing up when I plug it in via USB, making me think I'm going to have to do some sort of button-based/hardware based hard reset
04:30:07caspy77I *think* what I did was I tried to eject it and it kept coming back
04:30:16caspy77then I powered it off while it was still mounted
04:30:29caspy77(this is on a Mac)
04:30:48caspy77and I got an error message on the Mac saying that was a bad thing
04:30:56caspy77data could be lost, etc
04:31:25caspy77thing about Macs is they can be finicky if you unplug a device w/o ejecting it
04:31:42caspy77but, like I said, everytime I ejected it, it just showed right back up...
04:31:58saratogayou can try the steps in the sansa unbrick wiki page, but they'll only work if its a v1
04:32:24caspy77saratoga: do you know how I can determine what version it is?
04:32:46saratogaby checking the firmware version, or by opening it up and seeing what CPU is present
04:33:17scorchewhat caused this?
04:34:05caspy77scorche: you can read up just a bit, I just described it
04:34:46caspy77sorry, I meant scroll up just a bit
04:34:47scorchewell, i see that you ejected it, and it didnt work, but there was nothing you did before this?
04:35:01scorchelike, say, installing rockbox?
04:35:38caspy77I tried to use the autoinstaller and it failed, I gave me the error "permission for disc access denied"
04:36:04caspy77I also tried using the booloader and it failed
04:36:57Unhelpfulsaratoga: i think this will definitely work. i have init, alloc, and get_data working now, free and compact are next to tackle :)
04:37:03caspy77"You need permissions for raw disc access for this program to work!
04:37:25caspy77was what the error in terminal said when I tried to run sansapatcher.dmg
04:37:47saratogaUnhelpful: what is the first application you have in mind for it?
04:37:52Unhelpfulcaspy77: you need to run as root/admin :)
04:38:14caspy77Unhelpful: I am
04:38:26scorcheand have the device in MSC mode
04:38:37caspy77scorche: how do I do that?
04:38:59caspy77I've read that twice now, but there was no explanation of how to do that
04:39:41saratogathere is actually
04:39:49saratogabut it doesn't really matter if you can't boot
04:40:06Unhelpfulsaratoga: pictureflow. pf abuses bufalloc right now for the purpose of being able to allocate various-sized chunks for bitmap data. doing things bufalloc-style both makes compaction to reclaim fragmented space possible, and makes the changes in pf to switch from bufalloc trivial
04:40:16saratogatry the unbrick guide, if none of that works, its probably a v2 in which case you can't use rockbox anyway
04:41:07caspy77saratoga: understood, now, I've got to go find that unbrick guide...
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04:42:27Unhelpfuli'm not going to do things *exactly* like bufalloc, though... i think there will be _alloc, _get_data, _free, and _resize functions that all do what their names suggest. i'm not really sure what many of the other buff* functions are supposed to do, exactly, especially in the context of using bufalloc as a malloc replacement.
04:42:36caspy77all I really need to do is reset the device...
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04:46:49caspy77ok, so, how do I reset the USB mode to MSC?
04:47:14Unhelpfulvia the device's menu.
04:47:37scorche(in some firmware versions)
04:48:03caspy77ok, it's in the device not the computer, understood
04:48:23caspy77unfortunately I can't get the device to be responsive
04:49:03saratogacaspy77: you've said that a few times, which is why I suggested that you try and fix it
04:49:57caspy77I'm trying
04:50:01caspy77just thinking out loud
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04:50:07scorche[20:40:25] <saratoga> try the unbrick guide, if none of that works, its probably a v2 in which case you can't use rockbox anyway
04:50:19Unhelpfulscorche: are there firmware versions that have a MSC mode, which is *not* set via the menu? because i really don't want to be giving people the wrong answers :/
04:52:02scorchethey removed the option in some revisions
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04:59:40Unhelpfulscorche: thanks, i'll try to remember that when dealing with future user problems :)
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05:04:02kps00000Hello. I would like to make a couple of additions to the wiki page for the GoGearHDD6330; if someone would enable my wiki account (KevinSchoedel) that would be appreciated.
05:05:16scorchekps00000: go for it
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05:11:06Unhelpfulonce i get this working, i'm assuming i should submit it to flyspray separately from modifying pf to use it? perhaps with a statement of the intended use, so it's clear there's some reason that i bothered :)
05:11:42saratogai'd probably submit two seperate patches so its easier to review
05:12:05saratogacould be one task though if you prefer
05:16:42Unhelpfulnope, two patches is easy enough, it's not like they really even overlap.
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05:22:10kadobancould someone provide some clarity on FS #9260 (it states that plugins should not be calling opendir()) is it possible to use opendir safely, or a specific usage this is particularly unsafe? i'm considering using it, but won't bother if it's horribly unsafe
05:23:31kadoban(is it just using it recursively that isn't safe?)
05:30:41Beta2KNo idea
05:30:47Beta2Kthat makes sense tho
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05:33:43slyyfHey guys/gals
05:35:14Unhelpfulkadoban: if opendir is using some static buffer somewhere for its state, recursive use is clearly unsafe, since calling opendir on a new directory would wipe out the state associated with the previous opendir, and when you went back to finish listing that directory...
05:37:23Unhelpfulsaratoga: any thoughts on coalescing adjacent free blocks? this should clearly be done in free... the ways i can see to do it are to store the length of the *previous* segment in each segment header, and use that to test if the previous segment is already free, or to walk the segment list from the saved lower bound on free segments to find the segment before the one being freed.
05:38:08Unhelpfuli'm inclined toward the latter approach, since i'm already saving a lower bound for searching for free segments, and since the former would add another 4 bytes of overhead per allocation.
05:38:28kadobanUnhelpful: do you have any idea if that's the only problem being talked about in that FS? (i'm not planning on using it recursively and i'm wondering if i'm therefore in the clear)
05:40:29Unhelpfulkadoban: that i don't know. this suggests that listing the contents of *one* directory at a time is safe: "the tagcache and the onplay.c ones are dangerous... the 3 in misc.c are not recursive so safe."
05:41:26kadobanalright, thanks
05:44:23caspy77FYI, I spoke with Sansa Support and after troubleshooting they said the unit was defective
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09:37:35BigBambin1s: Thanks for comitting the invadrox patch
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10:19:41BigBambiHmmm, is bookmark on stop not working for anyone else in r20003?
10:20:05n1sBigBambi: no problem, committing good patches is fun :)
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10:21:55amiconnn1s: Speaking about manuals and screenshots - did you notice that screendump colours for non-colour targets are now target specific?
10:22:27n1samiconn: no
10:22:36amiconnI did this mainly to cater for the m:robe 100 and the Clip, as they're so different from the others
10:23:06BigBambiamiconn: I didn't notice that - the manual will need quite some reworking to incorporate that
10:23:33BigBambiAs at the moment it picks which image to use based on size and depth
10:23:37amiconnBut it is now implemented for all non-colour targets. Sim colours and screendump colours are now matching
10:24:41n1syeah, if we want to have the right colors for the non color targets the screenshot inclusion magic needs some work and we need a bunch of new screenshots too
10:25:19amiconnScreendump always uses the backlight-on colours. The Ondio is a bit special as it doesn't have backlight normally. It uses the colour of the EL backlight that archos removed for mass production, but two modded Ondios have now
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10:27:02amiconnn1s: Yes. It doesn't mean that *every* target has different colours though. Those having the same display+backlight type can still use the same screenshots, e.g. recorder v1 + fm recorder + recorder v2 and Ondio FM + Ondio SP
10:28:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:28:48pixelmaI don't think it's worth it to have different screenshots for e.g. the M5 and the H100s though
10:28:57rasherAssuming the screenshots are of identical menus
10:29:09pixelmajust because of slightly different colours
10:29:14amiconnpixelma: It clearly is for some screens. M5 has an RTC, H1x0 doesn't
10:29:36pixelmathose are (or should) already be different
10:30:09rasherUsers can get really confused if the documentation doesn't match the real world
10:30:46amiconnn1s: We also have remote screendump now, btw
10:30:58n1shmm, we already have the magic needed i think, that which is used to select screenshots with or without rtc
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10:31:19n1samiconn: ah, that's nice
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10:32:40*n1s spots breakage
10:32:41pixelman1s: no magic there - only a seperate name for specific targets (not for specific features), see e.g. the screenshots of the bounce plugin
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10:34:20n1sthe name used internally in the manual for h100 was changed from h1xx to h100 but the screenshots were not renamed so that manual is now using the ones with rtc...
10:34:41pixelmawhich has extra files for the Ondios and M5, greyscale Ipods (because the non-RTC version of the H100 was first)
10:35:48n1shmm, that could use a clean up, especially if we start getting more targets with the same display dimensions byt feature differences
10:36:20pixelmawhat would be nicer if there was ss-something.someresolution.rtc.png or the same with different screenshots where presence of radio matters
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10:37:09BigBambiyeah, that would be good
10:37:35Unhelpfulamiconn: you were one of the people who thought that malloc might not be the right API for dynamic allocation in plugins. any thought on ?
10:38:45Unhelpfuli've got alloc and free working under pretty much that scheme, i'm just mopping up cases where it can break right now... then i can do compaction :)
10:39:21pixelmaone or two different screenshots for one target with the same resolution but different features could now look weird though when it has different colours :|
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10:42:37*pixelma proposes greyscale pngs where the grey is made using the alpha channel and combining with different background colours at build time ;\\
10:42:51bertrikIs anyone still planning to work on RDS support?
10:43:06n1spixelma: maybe we should just go with target specific images for the non mono targets, only reusing the same ones when everything matches
10:44:08pixelmathat will lead to quite a few near duplicates and blowing up the manual directory
10:45:21n1syes but it will be easier to follow than
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10:47:55pixelmait's dependent on the actual case, I think. And if there weren't different colours now, the greyish-blue wouldn't be a problem
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10:49:22amiconnWe could use the LCD_BL_BRIGHTCOLOR from the target config files to differentiate. It's a 6-digit hex value, similar to how html defines colours
10:50:02amiconnIt's always the brighter one of the two colours, even if the display is negatvie (m:robe 100, Clip)
10:50:46amiconnThe clip is still special because it also has LCD_BL_BRIGHTCOLOR_2, indicated by HAVE_LCD_SPLIT
10:51:16amiconn(and its screendumps are 128x66 even though the LCD is 128x64)
10:51:20pixelmaI mean, if it's really only one target the specific set of features applies to it's easier to have a target specific one. If there are still two targets that share the same (e.g. RTC on greyscale Ipods and M5) it would be easier to use the features in my theory (but then there are different colours)
10:52:03amiconnNot all greyscale ipods have an RTC. G1/G2 don't
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10:52:27pixelmaI thought we were discussing if it's worth to blow up e.g. the number greyscale images in the manual by 3 or just include some
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10:54:07pixelmaamiconn: then 1g2g Ipods *could* share screenshots with the H100, except in menus where the FM item is visible (probably do at the moment)
10:54:11amiconnMaybe it's actually better to make all manual screendumps target specific. It would mean a lot more images, but it would make sure that target differences cannot be forgotten
10:54:27gibbon_i yesterday rigged my iPod mini with a Transcend 32GB CF-Drive... and i remember that there WAS a wiki page, where some working CFs were listed... i can't find the page anymore, but want to add this card.
10:55:19*pixelma already finds the number of screenshot pngs quite high currently
10:56:16pixelmagibbon_: CFModGuide ?
10:56:20bertrikgibbon_, this one perhaps ?
10:56:49gibbon_well ... thanks a lot
10:57:07gibbon_it should have appeared in my search results i guess.
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10:58:52bertrikone of the search boxes only looks in page titles, there's another that also looks at the contents of wiki pages
10:58:54gibbon_it worked like a charm... and itues wasn't even confused by the 1GB CF i used for testing during firmware recovery
10:59:09bertrikand thank you for adding this information back in the wiki :)
10:59:11gibbon_bertrik: i guess i got the wrong one, sorry
10:59:19n1swith a bit of scripting and hacking the sim all this screenshot stuff could probably be automated
10:59:26gibbon_bertrik: i will if i remember my username and password ;)
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11:00:38gibbon_which i just have. :)
11:01:13n1smaybe not all but a good deal of it at least
11:02:36bertrikn1s, interesting idea
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11:03:38amiconnNot all screenshots can be taken in the sim. Some plugins are target only
11:04:12pixelman1s: for the Ondios at least it also needs fixing of the sim screendump (maybe it's broken on target too?) or you need to build with backlight enabled
11:06:42amiconnpixelma: It's only broken in the sim, as I already explained
11:07:26amiconnjhMikeS broke it when he moved screendump handling in the sim to the backlight thread due to some sim threading rework that required to have it in a simulated rockbox thread
11:07:40amiconnAnd the stock Ondio build has no backlight thread
11:08:02amiconnThe target handles screendump in the usb thread, due to how it's triggered
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11:14:35n1sJdGordon: did you see FS #9904?
11:14:46JdGordononly just came online
11:14:49JdGordonso not yet
11:14:57JdGordonwhat did i break?
11:15:40n1snot sure you broke anything but it is related to the statusbar apparently so you are a suspect :)
11:17:17pixelmait's broken since the progressbar changes and it's not related to the statusbar
11:17:31JdGordonyay :)
11:17:41JdGordonwait, which progressbar changes?
11:17:47n1sah, /me can't read
11:18:05pixelmawell, your changes too ;) the parameter changes
11:18:16JdGordonaaww :(
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11:19:11pixelmaI would think making sure the WPS is reloaded when font changed would be enough (or reload WPS when changing font?). I'm not sure how this was done earlier though
11:20:10*JdGordon really needs to get this "theme changed" event happening
11:20:18JdGordonthat would most likely fix this, as you said
11:20:47amiconnJdGordon: There's still the broken 'Follow Playlist' at end of list on hwcodec
11:21:13*amiconn should try to check whether it also happens in a hwcodec sim - backtracing will be helpful in this case
11:21:19JdGordonI know... you keep saying... I also keep remining you i dont have hwcodec so cant really investigate it..
11:21:27amiconns/try to//
11:21:46JdGordonim hopfully going to have a archos rec when i hit seattle in 8 days :)
11:22:55amiconnThere's this null pointer access at end of list - I think the order of things happening at end-of-playlist is different on hwcodec than on swcodec. So maybe it just needs a bit of reordering to make it work
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11:25:53amiconnHmm, the sim doesn't simulate enough for hwcodec targets. It doesn't even detect end-of-track ...
11:26:26JdGordonthe sim is completly useless for hwcodec testing
11:26:45JdGordonhow much effort would it be to properly simulate the mas?
11:27:07amiconnOnly if you want to test playback. For other things it's rather useful
11:28:24amiconnAn exact simulation of the mas would be very complex, I think. But it shouldn't be necessary to do this if we can accept some deviations from target behaviour
11:28:35amiconnE.g. libmad also plays mp1, the mas doesn't
11:29:00amiconnA basic simulation shouldn't be too difficult.
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11:30:13amiconnIirc there was even a patch that did this waaay back in time, when only hwcodec targets existed. It wasn't included since it required having libmad available. Nowadays libmad is part of the rockbox sources...
11:31:48JdGordonmight be worth digging up... might even still be in sync :p
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11:33:04amiconnIt's definitely out of sync
11:33:52*amiconn has an idea how the simulation of the vaious mas regs could work
11:34:30JdGordonamiconn: how much of hwcodec do you know fully?
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11:35:22amiconnJdGordon: This is only part of a mas simulation, of course. The 3587F also has recording, which would mean realtime mp3 encoding. But recording isn't simulated for swcodec either
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11:36:06amiconnJdGordon: I have 4 hwcodec targets, and I still use them a lot.
11:36:14JdGordonfair enough.... no, i have a polayback patch which has been ready on swcodec for a while but is broken on hwcodec and i need someone with expereicen in that code to have a look at it
11:36:52amiconnI'm not really an expert when it comes to mpeg.c. Its main loop is a true monster....
11:37:22amiconnWhat does that patch do?
11:37:37*amiconn doesn't have much rockbox time today
11:39:05*pixelma guesses the next track info event patch
11:39:22JdGordonit changes the way the id3struct is handled, swcodec makes it more static and removes some inconsistancies during track change... the part which breaks hwcodec is (i tinhk) becuase the wps now doesnt try getting the next track info untill its ready, and never reloads the current track
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11:42:19*bertrik wonders why the call_tick_tasks function is implemented is in kernel.h instead of kernel.c
11:42:49bertrikto make it "faster"?
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11:44:13BigBambiNavigating the main menu doesn't exist on Sansa
11:44:16*BigBambi fixes
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11:46:14BigBambior the ipod 1g2g
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12:28:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:54:28BigBambiRecored/player keymap question - if in the keymaps there is the same action mapped to BUTTON_PLAY|BUTTON_ON, BUTTON_PLAY and BUTTON_PLAY|BUTTON_ON, BUTTON_ON then as far as the manual goes, are they both just the combination of play and on?
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12:58:27amiconnSeems to be a slight binsize waste
12:58:48amiconnFor checking a (short) combo, no precondition checking would be needed
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12:59:32BigBambiamiconn: OK, I'll put play+on for the manual, thanks
13:00:09amiconnI.e. you're right, but the keymaps should be changed to read BUTTON_PLAY|BUTTON_ON, BUTTON_NONE
13:00:51*amiconn should verify this
13:01:01BigBambiamiconn: OK, cool, cheers
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13:25:55BigBambiamiconn / pixelma: Sorry, another ondio question: In the recent bookmarks screenshot in the manual, it says PLAY=Select, OFF=Exit and ON+Play=Delete, yet looking at the description of the ondio it has only up,down,left,right,mode and on/off buttons. From the keymap I have put up and down to move around the bookmark list, right=resume, left=exit, long left=delete and long right=context menu
13:26:11BigBambiAm I correct, and if so is the screenshot wrong?
13:26:56amiconnThe screenshots are most probably the same as recorder, i.e. they are wrong
13:27:27BigBambiOK, thanks
13:27:59amiconnn1s: see? ;)
13:28:18pixelmaI'm not even sure if this delete bookmark shortcut still exist
13:28:31BigBambiit seems to in the keymap
13:29:19BigBambiBut I have no idea if it works
13:29:29BigBambiThe beast has a key mapping for it, but it doesn't work
13:29:41BigBambiSo I have left that out of the manual for the moment
13:30:02pixelmait works
13:30:09BigBambicool, thanks
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13:31:30pixelmalong left is correct but the bookmark screen changed... it doesn't mention how to delete so the screenshot is wrong anyways
13:31:59BigBambipixelma: OK - I'm nearly done with the key tables here
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13:32:27BigBambipixelma: The main menu keytable was missing a load of targets so I've added those, and put in a recent bookmark screen table for all of them too
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13:37:18pixelmaBigBambi: hmm... didn't it use those \Action defines?
13:37:48BigBambiwhat? The main menu, or recent bookmarks?
13:37:59pixelmamain menu
13:38:16pixelmaamiconn: I don't think you need to convince n1s...
13:38:39BigBambiNope, the navigating the main menu is done directly, and opt'd by specific targets, so e.g. the sansas, gigabeats, ipod 1/2 g just had an empty section
13:39:17BigBambiSo I've added those players
13:39:44BigBambigigabeats = gigabeat plural = all gigabeat models :)
13:40:25BigBambipixelma: I'm added an \ActionBmDelete to the platform files to do that
13:40:51BigBambito do that = the bookmark delete shortcut
13:40:59*BigBambi isn't being very clear today
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13:46:50BigBambipixelma: also, the navigating the main menu section had e.g. just right as advancing for ipods, where it is select or right, so I've changed those too
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13:50:22BigBambipixelma: Although, looking at it it'll be nice if I change it to use \Action...
13:50:26BigBambipixelma: So I shall
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13:52:28bertrikhm, adding battery charging to ams targets should be relatively easy
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14:01:48bertrikyay, it compiles ...
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14:05:23n1samiconn: i agree that the manual, screenshots stuff is quite a mess
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14:08:08BigBambiblithe: Could you sort out your connection please
14:10:12pixelman1s, amiconn: I'm a bit afraid that if we add the full set of screenshots for every target, it is even more confusing to find out whether this or that screenshot already exist because there are quite a lot (and it is even hard to find out now). If they would be automatically generated this would be a different story...
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14:13:34amiconnDoesn't the manual build process complain if a screenshot is missing?
14:15:53bertrikwow, charging actually seems to work on the clip, the battery voltage shows a realistic value and it's slowly climbing :)
14:15:55n1sdon't think so, a warning is printed in the manual however the manual build produces a lot of output which is mostly useless warnings so it would be hard to spot
14:16:03pixelmayou'll only get a warning in the pdf
14:16:25pixelmatrue about the useless warnings
14:16:58amiconnThen the build output should be fixed...
14:17:07bertrikso can't we suppress the useless warnings and then check for 0 meaningful warnings?
14:17:33pixelmaI believe bluebrother said that it's the usual LaTeX output
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14:19:06amiconnWell I'd expect normal output on stdout and real warnings on stderr. Then redirecting stdout to /dev/null should help
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14:22:51rakataI recorded someone singing with the rockbox firmware on the sansa 200 using the builtin microphone, and it turns out like this in spectral view
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14:23:43rakatathat looks funny to me
14:24:06rakatado yousee how the lower frequencies are mirrored in the upper frequencies?
14:26:13bertrikI think that's aliasing because of insufficient analog filtering before the ADC
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14:29:57bertrikrakata, you'll probably get that in the original firmware too. If you don't see it in the OF, please let us know.
14:31:39bertrikthere is little that software can do about an aliasing problem. Perhaps increasing the sample rate and doing some anti-aliasing filtering in software could work, but IIRC the e200 cannot sample any faster than 22 kHz.
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14:34:04rakatabertrik i have recorded before on this sansa d200 without that aliasing
14:34:08rakataoddly enough
14:35:38rakatai was using the wav codec now, before i was using the wavpack
14:35:50bertrikor maybe there is some kind of switchable anti-aliasing filter that we don't know about yet
14:36:48bertrikoh wait, I may be completely wrong about this, confusing aliasing during playback with aliasing during recording
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14:38:36rakatai must say i have heard of aliasing during playback myself
14:38:42rakatabut never during recording :)
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14:40:21rakataHow interesting!
14:40:40rakataThis 'artifact' completely disappears in Wavpack encodings
14:40:52rakatabut it is still present during wav recordings
14:41:14rakatawell, that settles it for me. thanks for your help :)
14:41:19bertrikinteresting indeed, both are (supposed to be) lossless codecs, right?
14:41:55rakatain this instance, both are
14:42:17rakatawavpack does however come in a lossy variant, but that is not applied to this case
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14:55:15kronfluxcan anyone help me out? I just ran and now when I try to compile, I get this message: ../tools/configure: line 2217: arm-elf-gcc: command not found
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14:56:49Unhelpfulkronflux: add the cross-compilers to your path.
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14:58:00kronfluxhow does one do that? I ran "which arm-elf-gcc" and it says "no arm-elf-gcc in (/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin)"
14:58:42Unhelpful...right, which only finds things that are in your path.
14:59:30kronfluxyeah, thats what I thought. so how do I put that in the path?
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15:03:16ufomanexport PATH=$PATH,what_you_wanna_put_there
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15:06:42Unhelpfulufoman: uhm, that , should be a :
15:07:43ufomanoh... true, my bad
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15:41:48kronfluxdo I first put a bootloader on the fuze before loading firmware? and if so, do I rename bootloader-fuze.sansa to fuzea.bin?
15:42:07kronfluxnever done this before :p
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15:50:27BigBambikronflux: The fuze port isn't ready for non-devs
15:51:38n1sBigBambi: lookign at your manual patch, why did you do the \\* thing which seems pretty fragile to me instead of a description thingy with \item s ?
15:52:33BigBambin1s: which patch?
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15:53:42BigBambiAnyway, the answer wherever is that I wanted a blank line and not a list (with headers) - I guess I could have used \item[] with nothing in the []
15:54:02BigBambiI didn't realise \\* was fragile - I looked it up and it seemed to be a standard latex thing
15:56:43n1sthe 9908 one, maybe it isn't fragile as long as those blank lines with spaces are left alone, it is more common to use \item lists in the manual so i thought it looked a bit out of place but it doesn't matter much
15:57:12BigBambin1s: I'm very happy to change them
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15:59:33gibbon_i wonder if harddrive and back-(metal-)-assy of the iPod 3G fit to the iPod color...
15:59:48gibbon_could make a friend of mine relly really happy
16:00:41gibbon_top holes seem to match... i have doubts, watching the dock connector
16:01:24gibbon_i guess noone has ever tried? ;)
16:01:41ender`somebody always has to be first :)
16:01:54n1sBigBambi: I checked it in (without changing that), thanks!
16:02:19BigBambin1s: Thank you :)
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16:19:58gibbon_ender`: i will report back how things went worse^W^W worked out nicely
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16:23:21kronfluxokay, I have the bootloader working for the fuze, but for some reason, I did as I read on the wiki, and it told me to stick on the disk, so for some reason, its saying "loading firmware" "file not found"
16:24:28ufomankronflux: didn't it say to UNPACK onto the player? ;)
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16:25:10kronfluxoh. oops. "extract the newly created" hm.. that seems pointless.. why did we zip it then? :P
16:25:25BigBambito gt everything in the right structure
16:26:19kronfluxokay XD
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16:31:46rakatais there an optimal gain setting for recording ?
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16:33:29kronfluxI seem to be having some difficulties extracting to the fuze. I'm using ark and it looks like its extracting the folder to the destination, but then when I check the destination, its not there..
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16:34:22bertrikthe files are extracted to ".rockbox" which you can't see unless you indicate to see hidden files/directories
16:34:56kronfluxoh, so if i reboot, it should work then?
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16:35:20kronfluxi mean the player
16:35:31bertrikin your file browser, look for the option to display hidden folders
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16:36:28kronfluxenabled that. I see the folder now. and I rebooted the player. no more message saying file not found. but its not doing anything. just staying on the rockbox screen
16:36:30bertrikyes, something rockbox'y should happen after a reboot of your fuze
16:37:51kronfluxis anything happening at this screen that just isn't visible? or..
16:39:19bertrikI don't know, I don't have a fuze and something like that can be expected for a target in development
16:39:58BigBambias I said at the beginning of this converation, the fuze is not yet suitable for non-devs...
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16:40:25kronfluxI expected as much. but I wanted to try :)
16:41:55bertrikholding the power button for a long time should force your player off, holding some magic button (I think |<<) during boot should make it go into the original firmware.
16:42:24kronfluxor simply connecting it to usb, and disconnecting it.
16:42:29kronfluxworks as well
16:43:33kronfluxwell thanks for the help guys!, I'll just have to try again soon, hopefully whatever bug this is or whatever will go away, and I'll actually get somewhere.
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16:56:36gartralthe Razor theme on the e200s has a borked WPS
16:57:07*bertrik just charged his sansa clip with rockbox
16:57:55gartralsweet the clips are usable now?
16:58:19bertrikno not really, but they do charge now :P
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16:59:39bertrikgartral, maybe you can fix the theme and let the original author know?
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17:00:43gartrali would, but i know very little of the way that particular WPS file works, and it looks like it used pre-CVP tags that i have no idea what they do >.>
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17:03:09gartrallike, all the icons are broken up into seperate files, it would take a very long time for me to convert it too a working WPS
17:05:21bertrikI'm no WPS expert, but I think you only need to edit the .wps file
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17:17:46BigBambiDo iPod accessories work at all without accessory power supply (unless the use just line out), or are them some self-powered accessories that work with it off, and some that need power from the dap?
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17:22:28gartralBigBambi: i belive there was an Ipod Accessory page in the wiki?
17:23:02BigBambigartral: Yes, but it just lists accessories
17:23:15BigBambigartral: I'm writing the accessory power supply up for the manual
17:23:37BigBambiAnd I don't know whether they all need it (for anything other than line out), or if some are self-powered
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17:24:21gartralahh, i belive i remember something about a car dock+charger that worked without it, but dont hold me too it
17:24:45gevaertsI would expect some to be self-powered (things like docks and car adapters actually supply power, so I don't see a real reason for them to use the accessory power provided by the player)
17:24:55BigBambigevaerts: I think so too
17:25:06BigBambiBut I have neither ipod nor accesory so I wanted to check :)
17:25:47toffe82Qball: Low_light : the tuner is working on the hdd6330
17:26:25BigBambigevaerts: atm I have put (after a general accessory thing) "The accessory may also require power from the \dap{}, and if so you should turn this option \setting{On}. If it is not required, then turning it \setting{Off} will save battery and therefore result in better runtime."
17:26:46gevaertsSounds good
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17:32:27Qballtoffe82: nice
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17:32:46toffe82Qball: is there a patch for the touchpad ?
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17:33:16Qballonly a patch to get more info from it
17:34:58BigBambigevaerts: thoughts? (this is a simple one) :)
17:36:47gevaertsBigBambi: it looks good to me. I do predict that some people will ask how they should know whether their accessory requires this though. I vote to just ignore those :)
17:37:05BigBambigevaerts: I think so - and just tell them to try it and see
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17:41:56gevaertsBigBambi: shouldn't it be added to appendix/config_file_options.tex as well?
17:42:43BigBambigevaerts: er, yes. I'll do that now
17:42:48BigBambiThanks for the reminder
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17:43:22gevaertsIf I happen to be the commit victim, I want it to be right! ;)
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17:43:30BigBambivery wise :)
17:46:50BigBambigevaerts: Do you know if there is any sort of order in config_file_options.tex, or if I can jyust add it at the end?
17:47:04BigBambiI can't see an obvious order, but you never know :)
17:47:15gevaertsni idea
17:47:32gevaertsno idea either
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17:48:44BigBambihmm, actually there might be a bit of one
17:48:51BigBambiI'm comparing it to a saved cfg file
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17:53:58BigBambigevaerts: OK, new one up
17:54:18BigBambiI put it in appendix/config_file_options.tex where it appears when you save a .cfg
17:55:50*gevaerts test-builds againm
17:56:25*BigBambi did that too :)
17:56:28gevaertsShall I commit it, or do you have further ideas for it?
17:56:41BigBambigevaerts: No, I think it is fine
17:58:01BigBambimuchos gracias
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18:00:20*BigBambi wonders what to tackle next
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18:12:43gartralthe make reconf tool (for lack of a better word) produces a makefile that builds firmware_flash.rock for all targets >.>
18:13:04*BigBambi was thinking more manual related :)
18:14:20*gartral does through and reads the e200's manual, cover too cover
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18:16:59gartralcolso, this is a support channel, off topic stuff too #rockbox-community
18:17:29gevaertsgartral: it *always* gets built, but it doesn't get installed. I believe this is by design
18:18:43gevaertsCelso: did you have a question?
18:18:58gartralahh, well it *does* get installed when using a "reconf'd" build, as im staring at it on my screen >.>
18:19:34*gevaerts tests
18:19:56gartralbtw, im using an e250
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18:23:54gevaertsgartral: I can't reproduce that here. apps/plugins/firmware_flash.rock does get built, but make zip ignores it so it doesn
18:24:04gevaertst end up in the zip file. What exactly are you seeing?
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18:27:04gartralwell, unfortunately i cant get a full log of the console im using, (putty's logging isnt very good) and i just figured it out; its cause i had edited the makefile to include extra_defines=-DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB -DUSB_NO_HIGH_SPEED once too test it
18:27:25gartralPEBCAK moment >.>
18:27:45gevaertsso? I still don't understand what you're seeing...
18:28:00gevaertsAlso (unrelated) why -DUSB_NO_HIGH_SPEED? Any specifiv reason?
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18:28:22gartralumm, i was testing it after not having it...
18:28:40gartraljust too see the (large) difference
18:29:32gartralhere, ill upload the build i was using, if i can find it
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18:31:24 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
18:31:34gartralbut what im seeing on my DAP is firmware_flash.rock, which doesnt do anything except spit out "incompatible model..." and returns too the the plugin menu
18:32:26gartralbeyond that, i cant get PuTTY to give me a log thats longer than the last 300 lines
18:32:30bertrikthat means it's an outdated version, from an earlier installation
18:32:40gevaertswhy do you need logs?
18:32:53gevaerts(in this case...)
18:32:57gartraltoo show it was packed in the zip >.>
18:33:23kadobanthrow it into a file, or use grep
18:33:32gevaertsso you do have a zip with it in it? Why didn't you just say that?
18:34:01gartralohh.. yea, i could have
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18:35:20bertrikignore my previous comment
18:35:43gartralyea, after having either -DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB flag
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18:36:08gartralin the makefile's extra_defines
18:37:33gevaertsSo what exactly are you doing? configure, edit makefile to have -DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB, make, make reconf, make? Anything else?
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18:41:44gartralok, ussually, i start by updating the source via svn co svn:// Rockbox at my home dir, then i cd too my build dir at /Rockbox/sansa, then i run make clean && make reconf, drop into SCP if i want to edit my make file before i type make && make zip into the console, after which, i use SCP to grab it and 7zip to extract it to the root of my e250
18:42:34gartralplease excuse my poor grammar
18:43:46gevaertsOK. That's what I'm trying as well (except that I just edit files, no scp involved). I've never seen firmware_flash.rock getting included...
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18:44:41gartralwell, just did it, DLing the zip now, if it IS included, ill pop it to a drop
18:46:02gartraland its not, i guess it was a oine time glitch...
18:46:12gartralthats odd
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18:48:10gartralwell.. heres a clue, the firmware_flash i have now is from 1/19/09... keep in mind, i just noticed it this morning >.>
18:50:44*gevaerts tries to work out what 1/19/09 means
18:50:51gevaerts19th of january 2009?
18:51:28gartralyes.. oh right, american is different than other, i keep forgoetting that
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19:26:19saratogai don't really understand how the iram_malloc function in fs#9882 works
19:26:36saratogaIRAM_IBSS_SIZE is the total size of the IRAM available to a codec right?
19:26:49saratogaso 48k on 96k IRAM targets
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19:36:58bluebrotheranyone around that can test a patch for rbutil on os x?
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19:46:52MarieI'm not sure why, but the rockbox utility keeps recognizing my 5th generation Ipod as a macpod. I just restored it on a housemate's PC
19:47:54gartralMarie: this is a known issue
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19:49:11MarieOkay, that's good to know. I'm just trying to install for the first time and it's making me crazy
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19:49:50gevaertsMarie: sometimes (or often?) it helps to do the bootloader install the manual way
19:49:55gevaertsi.e. using ipodpatcher
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19:50:44gartralyou need too either use m1.0.7 rbutil, or do it manually via ipodpatcher
19:51:06MarieOkay, I'll give it a go. Thanks
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19:51:57bluebrotherMarie: there's another case known of this. Interestingly this seems to not happen when using ipodpatcher directly, which is really strange
19:52:34bluebrothersee for (some) details
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19:53:37gartral <−− seems too not have this issue, or the "no sansa found" either
19:54:04gartraloops, the "b" varient, sorry
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19:54:45bluebrothergartral: can you confirm that the macpod issue does not appear on 1.0.7?
19:54:51MarieWell, I've got ipodpatcher installed.
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19:55:06MarieI'll try that version, I only have the most current at the moment
19:55:09bluebrotherwould be interesting to know ...
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19:55:35bluebrothergartral: there's no 1.0.7b on osx.
19:55:46gartralyes, ive tryed it with a micro? winpod on my step brothers mac, it worked
19:55:53gartraloh, then 1.0.7
19:56:03bluebrotherand you got that issue with 1.0.9?
19:56:18gartral1.0.8 - 1.0.9
19:56:59bluebrotherwould be nice if the people with issues would comment it on the FS task in the first place ...
19:57:04gartralnote: 1.0.8 does *not* have the "no sansa found" problem, that was introduced in 1.0.9
19:57:14bluebrothergartral: on osx?
19:57:34gartralyes, but i couldnt tell you which sub#
19:57:54bluebrotherplus, the "no sansa found" is present in 1.0.8 and 1.0.9. Definitely.
19:58:26bluebrotherand that bug is only present on w32. If there is an issue on osx it's a different one.
19:58:29gartralonwindows, yes, but on his mac, it wasnt...
19:58:40MarieSorry, I'm new to rockbox and opensource programs in general
19:59:18gartralno worries, but i think you should join #rockbox-community for general chit-chat ^_^
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20:03:54bluebrotherjust to put this clear: (1) the "no sansa found" is a w32 only issue and present in 1.0.8 *and* 1.0.9. (2) 1.0.9 only contains a fix for the gigabeat bootloader install, thus it's impossible that it introduced a new bug regarding sansas. (3) OS X is a bit problematic because there is no developer working on osx. If you can provide debug information to help fixing the issues please do.
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20:05:27gartralohh, ok, unfortunately, i know next too nothing of mac, and didnt think to ask him how too run a debug on rbutil at the time
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20:13:15SoapWorkIf anyone would like to look at / modify - I have a ROUGH draft of a Rockbox poster for SCaLE
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20:14:34moosSoapWork: What isn't rockbox? linux meh :)
20:15:03BigBambisoap: In't linux eithwr :)
20:15:21BigBambier, good god - I'll try again "Isn't linux either"
20:15:44BigBambiSoapWork: In the 28 is that just supported?
20:15:51BigBambi28 targets that is
20:16:02BigBambiIf not, you might want to put MIPS too
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20:16:12bluebrotherrbutil for theme installation ... we need the theme site! :)
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20:16:24BigBambiSoapWork: Also, no screen? Which is that?
20:17:16scorchei would say "28 current targets with more on the way"
20:17:48BigBambiSoapWork: I'd make a bit more of extending what the OF can do - i.e. SDHC
20:17:51moos"Total Replacement firmware for portable digital audio players" +writtren from scratch (not linux again :)
20:17:53SoapWorkM3 will work w/o the remote, no?
20:17:56saratogai would say 28 targets with N more under development where N is the number under the status link on the front page
20:17:57BigBambiSoapWork: But all in all nice :)
20:18:06bluebrothermanual -> Comprehensive target-specific manual built with TeX available as pdf and html
20:18:21bertrikyou should mention Doom :P
20:18:29bluebrotherSoapWork: M3 has some buttons to get used without the remote
20:18:33saratogahmm though i guess counting how many are in each family is pretty hard
20:18:35BigBambiI think we have just swamped SoapWork :)
20:18:48SoapWorkswamp away - there are logs
20:18:59BigBambiyep :)
20:19:02SoapWorkBigBambi: yes, the 28 are the supported ones
20:19:07scorcheSoapWork: well, how did you envision this?...i just wonder if it is *too much* information
20:19:13saratogawe probably have something like 30+ targets in SVN that aren't yet supported
20:19:20SoapWorkscorche: I agree - bordering on TOO MUCH
20:19:22BigBambiSoapWork: OK, then I'd also mention the in development
20:19:52scorcheno one is going to sit there and read this entire thing with us sitting there
20:20:06SoapWorkscorche: which would be a good exercise for an energetic person - strip this draft down to a lean-mean one
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20:20:28scorcheMrSomeone is typically pretty energetic
20:20:55saratogatheres 55 targets in the configure script
20:21:10saratoga54 if we count the e200R as an e200 since it basically is
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20:21:50bluebrotherI don't feel a need to mention the committers ml
20:22:10saratogaerr 53
20:22:14MarieWell, 1.0.7 doesn't work either. Looks like I'm stuck with itunes
20:22:38bluebrotherMarie: have you tried ipodpatcher? And, is Itunes running?
20:22:48MarieYes and yes
20:23:10bluebrotherthen quit itunes. IIRC it can cause trouble
20:23:16MarieThis version also can't autotect a mountpoint
20:23:28bertrikI would concentrate on the basic advantages over the OF (IMO the fact that it is open-source, has more codecs, easier file/song browsing and the cool plugins/games). Also make it more visual by adding some screenshots.
20:24:19bluebrotherwhy not make some box based layouts with some small boxes with small text holding the geek information?
20:24:29saratogaplus we basically have the fastest open source arm + coldfire codecs in existance
20:24:52SoapWorksaratoga: that is something I actually wanted a brain dump on from you.
20:24:58saratogai think this is true of all formats we support
20:25:02bluebrothereveryone interested can step nearer and read them and all others don't need to bother about. Give that box(es) a nice background image and it won't distract ;-)
20:25:10SoapWorkWhat arm/coldfire codecs have been ported out of rockbox?
20:25:33saratogaAPE and WMA for sure
20:25:54moosmusepack too
20:26:14saratogaour musepack codec was written by peterp, the foobar developer
20:26:14moosmade by Buschann himself
20:26:40moosand optimised by Andree Buschmann one of the main guy at start IIRC
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20:27:11moosnot to mention David Bryant for wavpack ;)
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20:28:21scorcheSoapWork: i didnt see the need for much of the stuff (dont most projects have a wiki, ML, tracker, etc? ;) ):
20:29:26saratogafor arm we basically have the best everything, but getting codecs out of rockbox is difficult enough that few people use our code outside of rockbox
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20:30:46SoapWorkThinking 22"*34" per poster.
20:31:01SoapWorkPlenty of room for images as well.
20:31:11SoapWorkpixelma suggested at least one tower.
20:31:26MarieHoly crap it's working
20:31:56MarieAutodetect didn't work (and hadn't with the 1.0.9) but it still installed
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20:32:07SoapWorkOSX, Marie?
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20:32:40scorcheSoapWork: well if you want one tower, there is always the one tower to rule them all and in the darkness bind them...
20:33:05MarieThis ipod has been formatted back and force between Mac and Windows about a thousand times, I thought it was my fault before I got on this channel
20:33:30gevaertsThe *big* tower does have some unsupported targets in it. Every single one has run custom code though
20:33:53SoapWorkscorche: I do think the flying buttresses need to represent
20:34:15scorchegevaerts: i'll allow it!
20:34:34bluebrotherhmm. Is there a way to figure if Itunes is running on OSX from within a program? (I bet there is one, but how?)
20:34:35*scorche wonders if we can make a poster of that done 1:1
20:34:59bluebrotherMarie: Rockbox Utility doesn't need a mountpoint for bootloader installation but for everything else only
20:35:01MarieNo, Rockbox is installed and working now, as far as I can tell
20:35:27MarieiTunes kept popping up even though I had unchecked it to open, that probably complicated things
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20:35:48SoapWorkscorche: your "thin" version of the poster is fine with me - but should we not mention the accessability and language support?
20:35:54bluebrotherpossible. I have no experience with Itunes or OSX unfortunately ...
20:36:03scorcheSoapWork: that can go with the features go here
20:36:26MarieBut its definitely not running now and and it finally worked, so I guess it's safe to call it a contraindication
20:36:59*bluebrother would like someone to test his OSX-only changes before committing ... it's a bit blindly doing things that feels uncomfortable
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20:37:17gevaertsSoapWork: maybe you can do something with"> ?
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20:38:06SoapWorkthat one in particular?
20:38:25saratogaSoapWork: I would put someting like " • 21 fixed point codecs optimized for ARM and Coldfire processors"
20:38:59SoapWorkthat's a good line, saratoga
20:40:14SoapWorkWe /could/ do two posters. Either as independent beasts, or as "partners" - one building off the other. Photos are fine. Did you see the camera-phone pic, scorche?
20:40:33scorchei did
20:40:41gevaertsSoapWork: could be useful as well
20:40:49SoapWork180cm long rockbox logo is bigger than I imagined.
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20:48:59SoapWorkjoin #rockbox-community
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21:25:09Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:25:19Mode"#rockbox +b blithe!*@* " by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
21:25:30scorchelet us know when it is fixed..
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22:02:57Mode"#rockbox -b blithe!*@* " by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
22:04:01Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:05:55 Join SoapWork [0] (n=42c07542@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:06:03ender`is it possible to unhide the ##MUSIC# folder on Sansa Clip when it's in MSC mode?
22:07:31SoapWorkthe OF will just rehide it again, IIRC
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22:09:41ender`i'd just need to see it long enough to move the files somewhere else
22:10:12scorcheyou cant do that while it is hidden?
22:10:42ender`it's hidden so well it only appears if i do a chkdsk /v
22:11:22 Quit roman_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:11:39scorchehuh? it isnt...what operating system are you using?
22:12:11ender`tried both windows and linux. it's as if it's not there
22:12:20BigBambiIt is
22:12:30BigBambiJust set windows and/or linux to show hidden files
22:13:00ender`my file manager shows them by default, but this just doesn't appear (and i can't cd to the folder from command line either)
22:13:13BigBambiwell that's not normal
22:13:20bluebrotherthat sounds like filesystem issues
22:13:22scorcheyou cant see it with "ls -a"?
22:13:41ender`dir /a doesn't show it
22:14:18scorchein windows have you told explorer to show both hidden files and protected operating system files?
22:14:28bertrikAFAIR, the ## directories are not simply hidden, but have some weird combination of attributes
22:15:31ender`scorche: i'm not actually using explorer, and my file manager doesn't treat me like a baby
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22:15:45ender`bertrik: any idea what those attributes are?
22:15:49DrEggmanI need help
22:15:51bluebrotherattrib -s -h <file> might help
22:16:11DrEggmanIm a newb end user without compiling tools and need to apply a patch to enable the scroll wheel in my ipod 1g
22:16:29bertrikthe forum post has more information:
22:16:29DrEggmandoes anyone have a simple patch for applying such a fix?
22:16:31bluebrotherwell, you need compiling tools to apply a patch
22:16:36scorcheDrEggman: we have lots of helpful pages in the wiki for you then
22:17:01bluebrother"patch" means source code changes. Which immediately means that you *need* to compile.
22:17:19DrEggmanIve narrowed down the patch to this .diff
22:18:04DrEggmanI just fear this would take all weekend to fix considering my machine is Vista x64
22:18:15DrEggmanand I find most tools are not compatible
22:18:24SoapWorkThe confusion seems to stem from the Windows and Warez world where patches are typically binary ones, whereas these are patches against source code. Since the binary of Rockbox changes so often binary patches would go quickly out of date - not to mention the fact that they are very unuseful for developement.
22:18:30scorcheDrEggman: have you read what we have been telling you?
22:18:44SoapWorkDrEggman: just use the VMware image - easy as pie.
22:19:03bluebrotherSoapWork: would go *quickly* out of date? I'd say *immediately* ;-)
22:19:24BigBambibluebrother: Surely there would be a few minutes on average :)
22:19:38bluebrotherlet's see if that patch still applies anyway ;-)
22:20:43n1samiconn: is there a reason that the patch in FS #8778 is not committed, IIRC you didn't like it but this approach seems saner considering the situation with the 1g ipods that don't enable the wheel
22:22:19DrEggmanJust wish I could HEX edit something on my ipod in disk mode. Easier for me than recompiling the source
22:23:26DrEggmanmy iPod version comes up as 0xFFFFFFFF so I assume its not detecting it
22:23:37n1swell, we couldn't tell you what to change without disassembling a binary and finding the location of the test etc
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22:24:16scorcheDrEggman: it really is not that hard...
22:24:26*jhMikeS has DMA audio playback running on PP502x (playing on H10 right now)
22:24:36scorchethe pages in the wiki even tell you the exact commands
22:24:40n1sjhMikeS: wow
22:24:54DrEggmanScorche, you're prbably right, but Im starting from ground zero with no exp in hopes it works with a x64 OS
22:25:01bluebrotherDrEggman: for your convenience. No support, updates or whatsoever.
22:25:16linuxstbjhMikeS: Nice! Will that work for recording as well?
22:25:51DrEggmanthanks a ton blue, I will research the Wiki too so I can apply this next time.
22:25:55jhMikeSsure, just use another channel and dispatch to the proper handler
22:26:16linuxstbjhMikeS: OK, so that means the FIQ can go?
22:27:19DrEggmanI got this iPod 1G at Goodwill yesterday for $8 in great condition. Thought I would put it to good use for .MOD, .SID, etc that my iPhone doesn't handle
22:28:20DrEggmanblue, it works great. Thanks a ton.
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22:29:52ender`grr, looks like USB ports on my PC are dying
22:30:13bluebrotherDrEggman: you might want to use the vmware image for updating this. Should be much easier than cygwin
22:31:07jhMikeSlinuxstb: not for PP5002, and I'm still using fiq_handler
22:31:19SoapWorkjhMikeS: is there somewhere I can read about the advantage of DMA audio over FIQ?
22:31:46jhMikeSSoapWork: in IRC?
22:32:02SoapWorkI'll start searching the logs, thanks.
22:32:15jhMikeSall those interrupts from filling FIFOs are quite a CPU load
22:32:35SoapWorkroughly when did the discussion start? Yesterday? Last week?
22:32:39bertrikSoapWork, AFAIK, using FIQ means there's an interrupt every x bytes of audio data, where x is a rather low number, so lots of interrupts
22:33:05jhMikeSit even made a measureable framedrop difference in mpegplayer in imx31 (for some heavy videos) so in PP it's gonna be even better for it most likely
22:33:18jhMikeSFIQ = interrupt type
22:33:34SoapWorkbertrik: how does that impact buffering? Will DMA audio alone improve the slow buffering performance while music is playing?
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22:34:32jhMikeSaudio will stay FIQ, it just won't fire nearly as often. about 2 times/s vs 7350 times/s
22:34:34bertrikpossibly, using DMA over FIQ has the effect of reducing the overhead during playback
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22:35:17n1sthat sounds like a really nice cpu cycle save :)
22:36:30bertrikand throwing away part of the current FIQ asm code, that someone probably put a lot of effort in in the past ...
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22:38:10jhMikeSpatch (very rough state but should work) :">
22:39:49n1sthat reminds me, i should restore my c240 that was a guinea pig in gevaerts' cruel experiment
22:40:09BigBambi=better battery life then I assume, which is always nice
22:44:07rasherjhMikeS: any idea of the impact of this?
22:44:45jhMikeSrasher: concretely, no. I'm guessing it should reduce cycle overhead measurably though.
22:45:17Unhelpfuln1s: (this is clearly getting on-topic) well, plugins would handle it by allocating any items they know are going to be static, and then giving the allocator the rest of the plugin buffer for dynamic allocations.
22:45:50n1sah, so it's only for plugins
22:45:51jhMikeSIt's 176400 bytes/s + interrupt overhead the core doesn't have to deal with
22:45:57Unhelpfulbut i'm using an init to set it up, so that they can take part of the plugin buffer themselves first, if they want to, for example for allocations that are static at compile time
22:46:53bertrik7350 FIQ/s * (say) 200 cycles/FIQ = about 1.5M less instructions to execute
22:47:16*gartral inflates balloons and passes out balloon animals with speakers attached (followed by completely random!)
22:47:20Unhelpfulor on targets with small plugin buffer, to grab a fixed chunk of the audio buffer, stopping playback just once - which is something that i'm assuming we can do based on impressionss i've been given :/
22:47:39n1sUnhelpful: my comment about a bufalloc that doesn't need to stop the music was more for core functions that currently require a stop or restart to alloc large chunks (like dircace etc)
22:47:39jhMikeSI just checked a video that would drop 23 frames to a certain point, now it only dropped 4
22:47:55bertrikor maybe I am grossly overestimating the # of instruction per FIQ
22:48:36Unhelpfuln1s: i've thought about solutions for that, but it's not really related to this (i want something for hwcodec targets, also, which lack bufalloc)
22:48:58n1sUnhelpful: ok, i misunderstood waht you were working on :)
22:49:24jhMikeSbertrik: mostly the inner loop filling is important
22:49:41Unhelpfulperhaps, for core, we could think about being able to clear only the end of the buffered audio data to meet an allocation need, rather than having to stop playback to free a buffer.
22:50:52Unhelpfulthinking about that is actually related to the work i did on AA... i was thinking about how to accomodate changes in the needed AA without forcing rebuffer, and one way would be to bufalloc the AA images, and only store the handle in the track metadata
22:51:58gartralSVN tracker and current builds page aren't in sync...
22:52:01Unhelpfulwhich led to "how do we *make* bufalloc work when it fails now", which put me pretty much at what you're talking about doing :)
22:52:15n1sis AA currently buffered per-track? if so that could be combined with some clever logic to avoid buffering the same AA over and over then
22:52:52n1sbut yeah, one thing at a time :)
22:53:33n1sgartral: commits to the manual don't trigger the builds
22:54:24gartraldidn't know that
22:54:31Unhelpfulyes, that's another potential benefit, add a refcount and the path to the AA buffer object, when buffering a new track with an already-loaded AA, just bump the AA's refcount, then decrement the refcount when clearing the track from the buffer, free the allocation when its refcount hits zero.
22:54:57bertrikoh I assumed it already worked like that
22:55:10Unhelpfulbut, *first*, i think we need to think about just putting AA in bufalloc rather than in metadata.
22:55:32Unhelpfulbertrik: if it does, nobody told me when i asked what to do about changing the AA for a buffered track :)
22:55:38gartralwont that brake like every theme?
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22:56:17Unhelpfulgartral: i don't see how, obviously the core functions that draw the AA will need reworked to get the AA from the buffer handle.
22:56:32gartralohh, ok, me stupid >.>
22:57:09Unhelpfulit's ok, i make my share of such comments, also. :)
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22:57:58Unhelpfulregarding reinventing wheels, i wonder how much the bufalloc logic would need to change to accomodate using one fixed buffer, rather than a movable chunk of empty space in a ringbuffer...
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22:58:12bertrikthe pp-dma patch does seem to lower the average processor MHz a little, but not as much as I expected (I'm not sure about how to measure this reliably I admit)
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22:59:28jhMikeSbertrik: how much do you measure?
22:59:37amiconnbertrik: I wouldn't expect much. FIQ means *fast* interrupt request for a reason...
22:59:38Unhelpfuli think that as a malloc substitute, it would only really need bufalloc, bufclose, and bufgetdata, and (just to be nice) a bufresize.
23:00:59bertrikI looked at the average MHz during a specific ogg song in the buffering thread debug menu, both with clean svn and with the patch, it's something like 40.something MHz vs 39.something MHz
23:04:58bertrikamiconn, yes I know, but it's not just the interrupt, but also the data-moving stuff in the handler that takes time
23:05:58amiconnWell, DMA offloads that from the CPU core, but the transfer still takes memory bandwidth. So if the CPU is doing something in SDRAM at the same time, the DMA isn't entirely free
23:09:44 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
23:09:46jhMikeSThey made one stupid design mistake - combining the DMA count status with the DMA interrupt clear. mpegplayer can cause it to miss so that's going to need some creativity.
23:10:17jhMikeSit clears by read and a halfword read from the reg doesn't cure the problem
23:11:33bertrikstupid indeed
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23:22:27 Quit ender` (" Why do people give each other flowers? To celebrate various important occasions, they're killing living creatures? Why rest")
23:23:26bertrikjhMikeS, seems to work fine here so far on my e200 (skipped around a bit in oggs and mp3s with voice enabled)
23:31:07 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
23:54:04 Join Mouser_X [0] (i=cf9bb00a@gateway/web/ajax/
23:56:25Mouser_XI have a question regarding the Rockbox Database. When I attempt to access the "History" section, specifically the "Most played" or "Recently played", the directory buffer is maxed out, an error is encountered, and then nothing is displayed.
23:56:49 Nick Beaver is now known as Beaver`alszik (
23:57:09Mouser_XMy question is, why? I *realize* that the dir buffer was full (even though I had it set at 5000), but couldn't it display the results it did find, even though it's incomplete?

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