#rockbox 2009-02-14

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#rockbox log for 2009-02-14

00:01:17	pixelma	BigBambi: I think opt lcd_bitmap and the lcd_non-mono is currently also redundant as the one charcell display is monochrome too (and I don't think we'll ever see another charcell display, let alone a colour one)
00:01:42	BigBambi	yep
00:02:18	BigBambi	I'm doing by target opt for now, as you say it seems the simplest in lieu of fixing invadrox
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00:05:50	*	BigBambi is enjoying manualing atm!
00:05:54		Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:07:02	pixelma	maybe you can use a mixture like \opt{lcd_non-mono}{\nopt{h10_5gb,ipodmini,c200}{ so you don't have to write out the different Archos ones
00:07:35	BigBambi	pixelma: I've just done it with \opt{all the ones it works on}{ :)
00:08:52	BigBambi	but yes, that way would be shorter
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00:17:32	*	BigBambi feels some sim building/screen shot making coming on
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00:32:53	martian67	happy 1234567890
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00:45:21	jdsalinger	Has anyone else experienced text viewer to hang for about 10 seconds when going back up a page?
00:45:50	jdsalinger	I'm using iPod Video
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00:59:59	Unhelpful	ok, i'm just sort of outlining here, an implementation of a bufalloc allocator, intended to work from a buffer which is contiguous from a start address to an end address... i'm thinking that there can be an array of pointers to spaces, that grows down from the top of the buffer, so that when a caller wants the pointer associated with handle h, it's just a matter of returning pointer_tbl[-h]. allocations will grow from the bottom of the
01:00
01:00:01	Unhelpful	buffer, and be prefixed with the length, and the index of their associated table entry... and everything will be kept 32-bit aligned, to make it easy to store pointers and int values as headers to allocated blocks, etc.
01:01:03	Unhelpful	there are some little details which can be used to speed allocation, like maintaining a pointer to the first free block, and the index of the first free handle, etc.
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01:04:19	Unhelpful	allocation will be basically find the first free handle, find an appropriate buffer segment to use, move the "next free handle" index if needed, split the buffer into newly-allocated and still-free if necessary, and return the handle.
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01:05:28	Unhelpful	free will be marking the buffer segment as unused, and merging it if one of its neighbors is already free, then flagging that slot as clear in the handle table.
01:06:16	saratoga	Unhelpful: whats the advantage verses a malloc?
01:06:27	Unhelpful	compaction can trigger when an allocation fails, and will consist of moving any allocated segments that follow unallocated ones forward, and updating their handle table entries.
01:07:10	Unhelpful	saratoga: the advantages are that we can do real compaction, and that the API can very closely mimic the audio-buffer-based bufalloc one, which some plugins already abuse for allocation
01:07:40	saratoga	how does compaction work? let the caller request it and then return the updated pointers?
01:09:42	Unhelpful	basically, a caller should request a new pointer for a handle any time it's yielded, or made an allocation, since an allocation can trigger compaction. since getting the pointer for a handle is a simple table lookup, we can even put that function in the header and inline it.
01:10:18	saratoga	and the advantage is that memory can be allocated from the audio buffer then without triggering a rebuffering?
01:10:42	Unhelpful	or from the plugin buffer, if that's big enough.
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01:12:00	Unhelpful	there will probably need to be a buf_init call before any use, to tell it what range it's allocating from. if the plugin buffer is sufficient for a plugin's needs, it can use that. if not, it can steal a fixed chunk of audio buffer, and then perform allocations from that without having to interfere with playback again
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01:13:20	Unhelpful	as i understand it, while playback is stopped, we can move the end of the audio buffer before restarting, basically?
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01:23:53	Unhelpful	i was really more looking for opinions on whether this outline for implementing such an API is sane, but certainly it is worth considering whether the bufalloc API or the malloc API is more appropriate. i think it shouldn't be a problem, though, to have both in pluginlib or codeclib, and use whichever might be more appropriate to the situation. pictureflow will do many allocations and deallocations, possibly in varying sizes, so i want
01:23:55	Unhelpful	to be able to compact to reclaim fragmented space.
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01:37:11	BigBambi	I have a patch that includes binary files (a manual patch including screen shots) - I have svn added the files, but clearly they don't appear in svn diff - when I put my patch on flyspray I assume I just attach the pngs as well?
01:37:41	BigBambi	And should I remove mention of them in the diff?
01:38:53	Unhelpful	patches are a text-only format, you will need to post an archive of the files on flyspray as well, for others to be able to look at them.
01:39:10	BigBambi	yeah, that's what I thought
01:39:31	moos	the commiter will svn add them...
01:39:31	BigBambi	Unhelpful: I meant patch as in all inclusive, not as in a diff.patch style thing
01:39:38	BigBambi	ok
01:40:15	Unhelpful	right, svn can manage binary files, but the file format used by diff and patch can not.
01:40:22	BigBambi	yep
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02:02:05	Unhelpful	hrm, i think that having one allocator, that allocates from one buffer, is reasonable? that way, some things can be made static that would otherwise need to be passed to each API call in a context struct.
02:15:21	Unhelpful	hrm, or i can implement them as context-based, and have wrappers that use a static context. that way is most flexible :)
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03:00
03:00:07	kronflux	can anyone direct me to the svn for rockbox, and the location of the current sansa fuze stuffs?
03:01:21	kronflux	okay, I take back the svn part. that was a stupid question and I found it instantly :p
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03:05:24	kronflux	but still, can anyone direct me to the location of the current fuze um.. patch? or.. build? I don't know the right term. but I wanna mess around with it :)
03:05:55	Unhelpful	i don't know anything about fuze. you're probably best off checking the forum thread for the latest new.
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03:21:44	SoapWork	Webclient will not join #rockbox-community anymore?
03:23:34	scorche\|sh	it should..
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03:43:52	kronflux	can anyone help me out? I'm trying to compile the current fuze build, and I'm getting an error saying arm-elf-gcc cannot be found.
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03:44:00	kronflux	I dont know what that means :p
03:45:18	Unhelpful	it means you need to read the developer's guide first, and make sure that your development environment is set up properly: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex#For_Developers
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04:00
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04:26:32	caspy77	well, it appears that within hours of receiving my new (inexpensive) MP3 player that it is unusable, I suppose I'll first need help restoring the bootloader
04:26:35	caspy77	I'm on a Mac
04:26:59	caspy77	I'm not sure what I did wrong, except it wouldn't eject and I powered it off
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04:27:08	caspy77	got an error
04:27:14	caspy77	now it won't boot at all
04:27:31	caspy77	any help?
04:27:51	saratoga	what device?
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04:27:58	caspy77	sansa c250
04:28:02	caspy77	er, sorry 240
04:28:27	caspy77	btw, the one thing I don't know is how to determine what version it is as I read that v2 is not supported
04:28:30	saratoga	what happens when you turn it on?
04:28:49	caspy77	it says "SanDisk" logo and just stays there
04:29:30	saratoga	what did you do that made this happen?
04:29:50	caspy77	the concerning thing is that it's not even showing up when I plug it in via USB, making me think I'm going to have to do some sort of button-based/hardware based hard reset
04:30:07	caspy77	I think what I did was I tried to eject it and it kept coming back
04:30:16	caspy77	then I powered it off while it was still mounted
04:30:29	caspy77	(this is on a Mac)
04:30:48	caspy77	and I got an error message on the Mac saying that was a bad thing
04:30:56	caspy77	data could be lost, etc
04:31:25	caspy77	thing about Macs is they can be finicky if you unplug a device w/o ejecting it
04:31:42	caspy77	but, like I said, everytime I ejected it, it just showed right back up...
04:31:58	saratoga	you can try the steps in the sansa unbrick wiki page, but they'll only work if its a v1
04:32:11	caspy77	er
04:32:24	caspy77	saratoga: do you know how I can determine what version it is?
04:32:46	saratoga	by checking the firmware version, or by opening it up and seeing what CPU is present
04:33:17	scorche	what caused this?
04:34:05	caspy77	scorche: you can read up just a bit, I just described it
04:34:46	caspy77	sorry, I meant scroll up just a bit
04:34:47	scorche	well, i see that you ejected it, and it didnt work, but there was nothing you did before this?
04:35:01	scorche	like, say, installing rockbox?
04:35:38	caspy77	I tried to use the autoinstaller and it failed, I gave me the error "permission for disc access denied"
04:36:04	caspy77	I also tried using the booloader and it failed
04:36:28	caspy77	sansapatcher.dmg
04:36:57	Unhelpful	saratoga: i think this will definitely work. i have init, alloc, and get_data working now, free and compact are next to tackle :)
04:37:03	caspy77	"You need permissions for raw disc access for this program to work!
04:37:25	caspy77	was what the error in terminal said when I tried to run sansapatcher.dmg
04:37:47	saratoga	Unhelpful: what is the first application you have in mind for it?
04:37:52	Unhelpful	caspy77: you need to run as root/admin :)
04:38:14	caspy77	Unhelpful: I am
04:38:26	scorche	and have the device in MSC mode
04:38:37	caspy77	scorche: how do I do that?
04:38:59	caspy77	I've read that twice now, but there was no explanation of how to do that
04:39:41	saratoga	there is actually
04:39:49	saratoga	but it doesn't really matter if you can't boot
04:40:06	Unhelpful	saratoga: pictureflow. pf abuses bufalloc right now for the purpose of being able to allocate various-sized chunks for bitmap data. doing things bufalloc-style both makes compaction to reclaim fragmented space possible, and makes the changes in pf to switch from bufalloc trivial
04:40:16	saratoga	try the unbrick guide, if none of that works, its probably a v2 in which case you can't use rockbox anyway
04:41:07	caspy77	saratoga: understood, now, I've got to go find that unbrick guide...
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04:42:27	Unhelpful	i'm not going to do things exactly like bufalloc, though... i think there will be _alloc, _get_data, _free, and _resize functions that all do what their names suggest. i'm not really sure what many of the other buff* functions are supposed to do, exactly, especially in the context of using bufalloc as a malloc replacement.
04:42:36	caspy77	all I really need to do is reset the device...
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04:46:49	caspy77	ok, so, how do I reset the USB mode to MSC?
04:47:14	Unhelpful	via the device's menu.
04:47:37	scorche	(in some firmware versions)
04:47:45	caspy77	ah
04:48:03	caspy77	ok, it's in the device not the computer, understood
04:48:23	caspy77	unfortunately I can't get the device to be responsive
04:49:03	saratoga	caspy77: you've said that a few times, which is why I suggested that you try and fix it
04:49:57	caspy77	I'm trying
04:50:01	caspy77	just thinking out loud
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04:50:07	scorche	[20:40:25] <saratoga> try the unbrick guide, if none of that works, its probably a v2 in which case you can't use rockbox anyway
04:50:19	Unhelpful	scorche: are there firmware versions that have a MSC mode, which is not set via the menu? because i really don't want to be giving people the wrong answers :/
04:51:48	scorche	Unhelpful: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaFAQ#My_c200_doesn_t_have_an_MSC_Mode
04:52:02	scorche	they removed the option in some revisions
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04:59:40	Unhelpful	scorche: thanks, i'll try to remember that when dealing with future user problems :)
05:00
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05:04:02	kps00000	Hello. I would like to make a couple of additions to the wiki page for the GoGearHDD6330; if someone would enable my wiki account (KevinSchoedel) that would be appreciated.
05:05:16	scorche	kps00000: go for it
05:05:26	kps00000	Thanks
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05:11:06	Unhelpful	once i get this working, i'm assuming i should submit it to flyspray separately from modifying pf to use it? perhaps with a statement of the intended use, so it's clear there's some reason that i bothered :)
05:11:42	saratoga	i'd probably submit two seperate patches so its easier to review
05:12:05	saratoga	could be one task though if you prefer
05:16:42	Unhelpful	nope, two patches is easy enough, it's not like they really even overlap.
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05:22:10	kadoban	could someone provide some clarity on FS #9260 (it states that plugins should not be calling opendir()) is it possible to use opendir safely, or a specific usage this is particularly unsafe? i'm considering using it, but won't bother if it's horribly unsafe
05:23:31	kadoban	(is it just using it recursively that isn't safe?)
05:30:41	Beta2K	No idea
05:30:47	Beta2K	that makes sense tho
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05:33:43	slyyf	Hey guys/gals
05:35:14	Unhelpful	kadoban: if opendir is using some static buffer somewhere for its state, recursive use is clearly unsafe, since calling opendir on a new directory would wipe out the state associated with the previous opendir, and when you went back to finish listing that directory...
05:37:23	Unhelpful	saratoga: any thoughts on coalescing adjacent free blocks? this should clearly be done in free... the ways i can see to do it are to store the length of the previous segment in each segment header, and use that to test if the previous segment is already free, or to walk the segment list from the saved lower bound on free segments to find the segment before the one being freed.
05:38:08	Unhelpful	i'm inclined toward the latter approach, since i'm already saving a lower bound for searching for free segments, and since the former would add another 4 bytes of overhead per allocation.
05:38:28	kadoban	Unhelpful: do you have any idea if that's the only problem being talked about in that FS? (i'm not planning on using it recursively and i'm wondering if i'm therefore in the clear)
05:40:29	Unhelpful	kadoban: that i don't know. this suggests that listing the contents of one directory at a time is safe: "the tagcache and the onplay.c ones are dangerous... the 3 in misc.c are not recursive so safe."
05:41:26	kadoban	alright, thanks
05:44:23	caspy77	FYI, I spoke with Sansa Support and after troubleshooting they said the unit was defective
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09:37:35	BigBambi	n1s: Thanks for comitting the invadrox patch
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10:19:41	BigBambi	Hmmm, is bookmark on stop not working for anyone else in r20003?
10:20:05	n1s	BigBambi: no problem, committing good patches is fun :)
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10:21:55	amiconn	n1s: Speaking about manuals and screenshots - did you notice that screendump colours for non-colour targets are now target specific?
10:22:27	n1s	amiconn: no
10:22:36	amiconn	I did this mainly to cater for the m:robe 100 and the Clip, as they're so different from the others
10:23:06	BigBambi	amiconn: I didn't notice that - the manual will need quite some reworking to incorporate that
10:23:33	BigBambi	As at the moment it picks which image to use based on size and depth
10:23:37	amiconn	But it is now implemented for all non-colour targets. Sim colours and screendump colours are now matching
10:24:41	n1s	yeah, if we want to have the right colors for the non color targets the screenshot inclusion magic needs some work and we need a bunch of new screenshots too
10:25:19	amiconn	Screendump always uses the backlight-on colours. The Ondio is a bit special as it doesn't have backlight normally. It uses the colour of the EL backlight that archos removed for mass production, but two modded Ondios have now
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10:27:02	amiconn	n1s: Yes. It doesn't mean that every target has different colours though. Those having the same display+backlight type can still use the same screenshots, e.g. recorder v1 + fm recorder + recorder v2 and Ondio FM + Ondio SP
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10:28:48	pixelma	I don't think it's worth it to have different screenshots for e.g. the M5 and the H100s though
10:28:57	rasher	Assuming the screenshots are of identical menus
10:29:09	pixelma	just because of slightly different colours
10:29:14	amiconn	pixelma: It clearly is for some screens. M5 has an RTC, H1x0 doesn't
10:29:36	pixelma	those are (or should) already be different
10:30:09	rasher	Users can get really confused if the documentation doesn't match the real world
10:30:46	amiconn	n1s: We also have remote screendump now, btw
10:30:58	n1s	hmm, we already have the magic needed i think, that which is used to select screenshots with or without rtc
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10:31:19	n1s	amiconn: ah, that's nice
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10:32:40	*	n1s spots breakage
10:32:41	pixelma	n1s: no magic there - only a seperate name for specific targets (not for specific features), see e.g. the screenshots of the bounce plugin
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10:34:20	n1s	the name used internally in the manual for h100 was changed from h1xx to h100 but the screenshots were not renamed so that manual is now using the ones with rtc...
10:34:41	pixelma	which has extra files for the Ondios and M5, greyscale Ipods (because the non-RTC version of the H100 was first)
10:35:48	n1s	hmm, that could use a clean up, especially if we start getting more targets with the same display dimensions byt feature differences
10:36:20	pixelma	what would be nicer if there was ss-something.someresolution.rtc.png or the same with different screenshots where presence of radio matters
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10:36:37	n1s	yes
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10:37:09	BigBambi	yeah, that would be good
10:37:35	Unhelpful	amiconn: you were one of the people who thought that malloc might not be the right API for dynamic allocation in plugins. any thought on http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090214#00:59:59 ?
10:38:45	Unhelpful	i've got alloc and free working under pretty much that scheme, i'm just mopping up cases where it can break right now... then i can do compaction :)
10:39:21	pixelma	one or two different screenshots for one target with the same resolution but different features could now look weird though when it has different colours :\|
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10:42:37	*	pixelma proposes greyscale pngs where the grey is made using the alpha channel and combining with different background colours at build time ;\\
10:42:51	bertrik	Is anyone still planning to work on RDS support?
10:43:06	n1s	pixelma: maybe we should just go with target specific images for the non mono targets, only reusing the same ones when everything matches
10:44:08	pixelma	that will lead to quite a few near duplicates and blowing up the manual directory
10:45:21	n1s	yes but it will be easier to follow than xxx.yyy.greyish-bule.no-rtc.fm.rec.png
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10:47:55	pixelma	it's dependent on the actual case, I think. And if there weren't different colours now, the greyish-blue wouldn't be a problem
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10:49:22	amiconn	We could use the LCD_BL_BRIGHTCOLOR from the target config files to differentiate. It's a 6-digit hex value, similar to how html defines colours
10:50:02	amiconn	It's always the brighter one of the two colours, even if the display is negatvie (m:robe 100, Clip)
10:50:46	amiconn	The clip is still special because it also has LCD_BL_BRIGHTCOLOR_2, indicated by HAVE_LCD_SPLIT
10:51:16	amiconn	(and its screendumps are 128x66 even though the LCD is 128x64)
10:51:20	pixelma	I mean, if it's really only one target the specific set of features applies to it's easier to have a target specific one. If there are still two targets that share the same (e.g. RTC on greyscale Ipods and M5) it would be easier to use the features in my theory (but then there are different colours)
10:52:03	amiconn	Not all greyscale ipods have an RTC. G1/G2 don't
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10:52:27	pixelma	I thought we were discussing if it's worth to blow up e.g. the number greyscale images in the manual by 3 or just include some
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10:53:34	gibbon_	hiho
10:54:07	pixelma	amiconn: then 1g2g Ipods could share screenshots with the H100, except in menus where the FM item is visible (probably do at the moment)
10:54:11	amiconn	Maybe it's actually better to make all manual screendumps target specific. It would mean a lot more images, but it would make sure that target differences cannot be forgotten
10:54:27	gibbon_	i yesterday rigged my iPod mini with a Transcend 32GB CF-Drive... and i remember that there WAS a wiki page, where some working CFs were listed... i can't find the page anymore, but want to add this card.
10:55:19	*	pixelma already finds the number of screenshot pngs quite high currently
10:56:16	pixelma	gibbon_: CFModGuide ?
10:56:20	bertrik	gibbon_, this one perhaps http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CFModGuide ?
10:56:49	gibbon_	well ... thanks a lot
10:57:07	gibbon_	it should have appeared in my search results i guess.
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10:58:52	bertrik	one of the search boxes only looks in page titles, there's another that also looks at the contents of wiki pages
10:58:54	gibbon_	it worked like a charm... and itues wasn't even confused by the 1GB CF i used for testing during firmware recovery
10:59:09	bertrik	and thank you for adding this information back in the wiki :)
10:59:11	gibbon_	bertrik: i guess i got the wrong one, sorry
10:59:19	n1s	with a bit of scripting and hacking the sim all this screenshot stuff could probably be automated
10:59:26	gibbon_	bertrik: i will if i remember my username and password ;)
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11:00:38	gibbon_	which i just have. :)
11:01:13	n1s	maybe not all but a good deal of it at least
11:02:36	bertrik	n1s, interesting idea
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11:03:38	amiconn	Not all screenshots can be taken in the sim. Some plugins are target only
11:04:12	pixelma	n1s: for the Ondios at least it also needs fixing of the sim screendump (maybe it's broken on target too?) or you need to build with backlight enabled
11:04:29	n1s	right
11:06:42	amiconn	pixelma: It's only broken in the sim, as I already explained
11:07:26	amiconn	jhMikeS broke it when he moved screendump handling in the sim to the backlight thread due to some sim threading rework that required to have it in a simulated rockbox thread
11:07:40	amiconn	And the stock Ondio build has no backlight thread
11:08:02	amiconn	The target handles screendump in the usb thread, due to how it's triggered
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11:14:35	n1s	JdGordon: did you see FS #9904?
11:14:46	JdGordon	only just came online
11:14:49	JdGordon	so not yet
11:14:57	JdGordon	what did i break?
11:15:40	n1s	not sure you broke anything but it is related to the statusbar apparently so you are a suspect :)
11:17:17	pixelma	it's broken since the progressbar changes and it's not related to the statusbar
11:17:31	JdGordon	yay :)
11:17:41	JdGordon	wait, which progressbar changes?
11:17:47	n1s	ah, /me can't read
11:18:05	pixelma	well, your changes too ;) the parameter changes
11:18:16	JdGordon	aaww :(
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11:19:11	pixelma	I would think making sure the WPS is reloaded when font changed would be enough (or reload WPS when changing font?). I'm not sure how this was done earlier though
11:20:10	*	JdGordon really needs to get this "theme changed" event happening
11:20:18	JdGordon	that would most likely fix this, as you said
11:20:47	amiconn	JdGordon: There's still the broken 'Follow Playlist' at end of list on hwcodec
11:21:13	*	amiconn should try to check whether it also happens in a hwcodec sim - backtracing will be helpful in this case
11:21:19	JdGordon	I know... you keep saying... I also keep remining you i dont have hwcodec so cant really investigate it..
11:21:27	amiconn	s/try to//
11:21:46	JdGordon	im hopfully going to have a archos rec when i hit seattle in 8 days :)
11:22:55	amiconn	There's this null pointer access at end of list - I think the order of things happening at end-of-playlist is different on hwcodec than on swcodec. So maybe it just needs a bit of reordering to make it work
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11:25:53	amiconn	Hmm, the sim doesn't simulate enough for hwcodec targets. It doesn't even detect end-of-track ...
11:26:26	JdGordon	the sim is completly useless for hwcodec testing
11:26:45	JdGordon	how much effort would it be to properly simulate the mas?
11:27:07	amiconn	Only if you want to test playback. For other things it's rather useful
11:28:24	amiconn	An exact simulation of the mas would be very complex, I think. But it shouldn't be necessary to do this if we can accept some deviations from target behaviour
11:28:35	amiconn	E.g. libmad also plays mp1, the mas doesn't
11:29:00	amiconn	A basic simulation shouldn't be too difficult.
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11:30:13	amiconn	Iirc there was even a patch that did this waaay back in time, when only hwcodec targets existed. It wasn't included since it required having libmad available. Nowadays libmad is part of the rockbox sources...
11:31:48	JdGordon	might be worth digging up... might even still be in sync :p
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11:33:04	amiconn	It's definitely out of sync
11:33:52	*	amiconn has an idea how the simulation of the vaious mas regs could work
11:34:30	JdGordon	amiconn: how much of hwcodec do you know fully?
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11:35:22	amiconn	JdGordon: This is only part of a mas simulation, of course. The 3587F also has recording, which would mean realtime mp3 encoding. But recording isn't simulated for swcodec either
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11:36:06	amiconn	JdGordon: I have 4 hwcodec targets, and I still use them a lot.
11:36:14	JdGordon	fair enough.... no, i have a polayback patch which has been ready on swcodec for a while but is broken on hwcodec and i need someone with expereicen in that code to have a look at it
11:36:52	amiconn	I'm not really an expert when it comes to mpeg.c. Its main loop is a true monster....
11:37:22	amiconn	What does that patch do?
11:37:37	*	amiconn doesn't have much rockbox time today
11:39:05	*	pixelma guesses the next track info event patch
11:39:22	JdGordon	it changes the way the id3struct is handled, swcodec makes it more static and removes some inconsistancies during track change... the part which breaks hwcodec is (i tinhk) becuase the wps now doesnt try getting the next track info untill its ready, and never reloads the current track
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11:42:19	*	bertrik wonders why the call_tick_tasks function is implemented is in kernel.h instead of kernel.c
11:42:49	bertrik	to make it "faster"?
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11:44:00	BigBambi	huh
11:44:13	BigBambi	Navigating the main menu doesn't exist on Sansa
11:44:16	*	BigBambi fixes
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11:46:14	BigBambi	or the ipod 1g2g
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12:54:28	BigBambi	Recored/player keymap question - if in the keymaps there is the same action mapped to BUTTON_PLAY\|BUTTON_ON, BUTTON_PLAY and BUTTON_PLAY\|BUTTON_ON, BUTTON_ON then as far as the manual goes, are they both just the combination of play and on?
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12:58:27	amiconn	Seems to be a slight binsize waste
12:58:48	amiconn	For checking a (short) combo, no precondition checking would be needed
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12:59:32	BigBambi	amiconn: OK, I'll put play+on for the manual, thanks
13:00
13:00:09	amiconn	I.e. you're right, but the keymaps should be changed to read BUTTON_PLAY\|BUTTON_ON, BUTTON_NONE
13:00:14	amiconn	s/but/and/
13:00:51	*	amiconn should verify this
13:01:01	BigBambi	amiconn: OK, cool, cheers
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13:25:55	BigBambi	amiconn / pixelma: Sorry, another ondio question: In the recent bookmarks screenshot in the manual, it says PLAY=Select, OFF=Exit and ON+Play=Delete, yet looking at the description of the ondio it has only up,down,left,right,mode and on/off buttons. From the keymap I have put up and down to move around the bookmark list, right=resume, left=exit, long left=delete and long right=context menu
13:26:11	BigBambi	Am I correct, and if so is the screenshot wrong?
13:26:56	amiconn	The screenshots are most probably the same as recorder, i.e. they are wrong
13:27:27	BigBambi	OK, thanks
13:27:59	amiconn	n1s: see? ;)
13:28:18	pixelma	I'm not even sure if this delete bookmark shortcut still exist
13:28:31	BigBambi	it seems to in the keymap
13:28:50	BigBambi	{ ACTION_BMS_DELETE, BUTTON_LEFT\|BUTTON_REPEAT, BUTTON_LEFT },
13:29:13	pixelma	aha
13:29:19	BigBambi	But I have no idea if it works
13:29:29	BigBambi	The beast has a key mapping for it, but it doesn't work
13:29:41	BigBambi	So I have left that out of the manual for the moment
13:30:02	pixelma	it works
13:30:09	BigBambi	cool, thanks
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13:31:30	pixelma	long left is correct but the bookmark screen changed... it doesn't mention how to delete so the screenshot is wrong anyways
13:31:59	BigBambi	pixelma: OK - I'm nearly done with the key tables here
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13:32:27	BigBambi	pixelma: The main menu keytable was missing a load of targets so I've added those, and put in a recent bookmark screen table for all of them too
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13:37:18	pixelma	BigBambi: hmm... didn't it use those \Action defines?
13:37:48	BigBambi	what? The main menu, or recent bookmarks?
13:37:59	pixelma	main menu
13:38:16	pixelma	amiconn: I don't think you need to convince n1s...
13:38:39	BigBambi	Nope, the navigating the main menu is done directly, and opt'd by specific targets, so e.g. the sansas, gigabeats, ipod 1/2 g just had an empty section
13:39:17	BigBambi	So I've added those players
13:39:44	BigBambi	gigabeats = gigabeat plural = all gigabeat models :)
13:40:25	BigBambi	pixelma: I'm added an \ActionBmDelete to the platform files to do that
13:40:29	BigBambi	*I've
13:40:51	BigBambi	to do that = the bookmark delete shortcut
13:40:59	*	BigBambi isn't being very clear today
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13:46:50	BigBambi	pixelma: also, the navigating the main menu section had e.g. just right as advancing for ipods, where it is select or right, so I've changed those too
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13:50:22	BigBambi	pixelma: Although, looking at it it'll be nice if I change it to use \Action...
13:50:26	BigBambi	pixelma: So I shall
13:50:30	BigBambi	*nicer
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13:52:28	bertrik	hm, adding battery charging to ams targets should be relatively easy
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14:01:48	bertrik	yay, it compiles ...
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14:05:23	n1s	amiconn: i agree that the manual, screenshots stuff is quite a mess
14:05:33	n1s	s/,//
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14:08:08	BigBambi	blithe: Could you sort out your connection please
14:10:12	pixelma	n1s, amiconn: I'm a bit afraid that if we add the full set of screenshots for every target, it is even more confusing to find out whether this or that screenshot already exist because there are quite a lot (and it is even hard to find out now). If they would be automatically generated this would be a different story...
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14:13:34	amiconn	Doesn't the manual build process complain if a screenshot is missing?
14:15:53	bertrik	wow, charging actually seems to work on the clip, the battery voltage shows a realistic value and it's slowly climbing :)
14:15:55	n1s	don't think so, a warning is printed in the manual however the manual build produces a lot of output which is mostly useless warnings so it would be hard to spot
14:16:03	pixelma	you'll only get a warning in the pdf
14:16:25	pixelma	true about the useless warnings
14:16:58	amiconn	Then the build output should be fixed...
14:17:07	bertrik	so can't we suppress the useless warnings and then check for 0 meaningful warnings?
14:17:33	pixelma	I believe bluebrother said that it's the usual LaTeX output
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14:19:06	amiconn	Well I'd expect normal output on stdout and real warnings on stderr. Then redirecting stdout to /dev/null should help
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14:22:51	rakata	I recorded someone singing with the rockbox firmware on the sansa 200 using the builtin microphone, and it turns out like this in spectral view http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7900/spectva0.jpg
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14:23:43	rakata	that looks funny to me
14:24:06	rakata	do yousee how the lower frequencies are mirrored in the upper frequencies?
14:26:13	bertrik	I think that's aliasing because of insufficient analog filtering before the ADC
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14:29:57	bertrik	rakata, you'll probably get that in the original firmware too. If you don't see it in the OF, please let us know.
14:31:39	bertrik	there is little that software can do about an aliasing problem. Perhaps increasing the sample rate and doing some anti-aliasing filtering in software could work, but IIRC the e200 cannot sample any faster than 22 kHz.
14:32:11	rakata	oh
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14:34:04	rakata	bertrik i have recorded before on this sansa d200 without that aliasing
14:34:08	rakata	oddly enough
14:35:38	rakata	i was using the wav codec now, before i was using the wavpack
14:35:50	bertrik	or maybe there is some kind of switchable anti-aliasing filter that we don't know about yet
14:36:48	bertrik	oh wait, I may be completely wrong about this, confusing aliasing during playback with aliasing during recording
14:37:15	rakata	ah
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14:38:36	rakata	i must say i have heard of aliasing during playback myself
14:38:42	rakata	but never during recording :)
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14:40:21	rakata	How interesting!
14:40:40	rakata	This 'artifact' completely disappears in Wavpack encodings
14:40:52	rakata	but it is still present during wav recordings
14:41:14	rakata	well, that settles it for me. thanks for your help :)
14:41:19	bertrik	interesting indeed, both are (supposed to be) lossless codecs, right?
14:41:55	rakata	in this instance, both are
14:42:17	rakata	wavpack does however come in a lossy variant, but that is not applied to this case
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14:45:14	BigBambi	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9908
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14:55:15	kronflux	can anyone help me out? I just ran rockboxdev.sh and now when I try to compile, I get this message: ../tools/configure: line 2217: arm-elf-gcc: command not found
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14:56:49	Unhelpful	kronflux: add the cross-compilers to your path.
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14:58:00	kronflux	how does one do that? I ran "which arm-elf-gcc" and it says "no arm-elf-gcc in (/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin)"
14:58:42	Unhelpful	...right, which only finds things that are in your path.
14:59:30	kronflux	yeah, thats what I thought. so how do I put that in the path?
15:00
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15:03:16	ufoman	export PATH=$PATH,what_you_wanna_put_there
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15:06:42	Unhelpful	ufoman: uhm, that , should be a :
15:07:43	ufoman	oh... true, my bad
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15:41:48	kronflux	do I first put a bootloader on the fuze before loading firmware? and if so, do I rename bootloader-fuze.sansa to fuzea.bin?
15:42:07	kronflux	never done this before :p
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15:50:27	BigBambi	kronflux: The fuze port isn't ready for non-devs
15:51:38	n1s	BigBambi: lookign at your manual patch, why did you do the \\* thing which seems pretty fragile to me instead of a description thingy with \item s ?
15:52:33	BigBambi	n1s: which patch?
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15:53:42	BigBambi	Anyway, the answer wherever is that I wanted a blank line and not a list (with headers) - I guess I could have used \item[] with nothing in the []
15:54:02	BigBambi	I didn't realise \\* was fragile - I looked it up and it seemed to be a standard latex thing
15:56:43	n1s	the 9908 one, maybe it isn't fragile as long as those blank lines with spaces are left alone, it is more common to use \item lists in the manual so i thought it looked a bit out of place but it doesn't matter much
15:57:12	BigBambi	n1s: I'm very happy to change them
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15:59:33	gibbon_	i wonder if harddrive and back-(metal-)-assy of the iPod 3G fit to the iPod color...
15:59:48	gibbon_	could make a friend of mine relly really happy
16:00
16:00:41	gibbon_	top holes seem to match... i have doubts, watching the dock connector
16:01:24	gibbon_	i guess noone has ever tried? ;)
16:01:41	ender`	somebody always has to be first :)
16:01:54	n1s	BigBambi: I checked it in (without changing that), thanks!
16:02:19	BigBambi	n1s: Thank you :)
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16:19:58	gibbon_	ender`: i will report back how things went worse^W^W worked out nicely
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16:23:21	kronflux	okay, I have the bootloader working for the fuze, but for some reason, I did as I read on the wiki, and it told me to stick rockbox.zip on the disk, so for some reason, its saying "loading firmware" "file not found"
16:24:28	ufoman	kronflux: didn't it say to UNPACK rockbox.zip onto the player? ;)
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16:25:10	kronflux	oh. oops. "extract the newly created rockbox.zip" hm.. that seems pointless.. why did we zip it then? :P
16:25:25	BigBambi	to gt everything in the right structure
16:26:19	kronflux	okay XD
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16:31:46	rakata	is there an optimal gain setting for recording ?
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16:33:29	kronflux	I seem to be having some difficulties extracting to the fuze. I'm using ark and it looks like its extracting the folder to the destination, but then when I check the destination, its not there..
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16:34:22	bertrik	the files are extracted to ".rockbox" which you can't see unless you indicate to see hidden files/directories
16:34:56	kronflux	oh, so if i reboot, it should work then?
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16:35:07	bertrik	no
16:35:20	kronflux	i mean the player
16:35:31	bertrik	in your file browser, look for the option to display hidden folders
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16:36:28	kronflux	enabled that. I see the folder now. and I rebooted the player. no more message saying file not found. but its not doing anything. just staying on the rockbox screen
16:36:30	bertrik	yes, something rockbox'y should happen after a reboot of your fuze
16:37:51	kronflux	is anything happening at this screen that just isn't visible? or..
16:39:19	bertrik	I don't know, I don't have a fuze and something like that can be expected for a target in development
16:39:58	BigBambi	as I said at the beginning of this converation, the fuze is not yet suitable for non-devs...
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16:40:25	kronflux	I expected as much. but I wanted to try :)
16:41:55	bertrik	holding the power button for a long time should force your player off, holding some magic button (I think \|<<) during boot should make it go into the original firmware.
16:42:24	kronflux	or simply connecting it to usb, and disconnecting it.
16:42:29	kronflux	works as well
16:43:33	kronflux	well thanks for the help guys!, I'll just have to try again soon, hopefully whatever bug this is or whatever will go away, and I'll actually get somewhere.
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16:56:36	gartral	the Razor theme on the e200s has a borked WPS
16:57:07	*	bertrik just charged his sansa clip with rockbox
16:57:55	gartral	sweet the clips are usable now?
16:58:19	bertrik	no not really, but they do charge now :P
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16:59:39	bertrik	gartral, maybe you can fix the theme and let the original author know?
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17:00:43	gartral	i would, but i know very little of the way that particular WPS file works, and it looks like it used pre-CVP tags that i have no idea what they do >.>
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17:03:09	gartral	like, all the icons are broken up into seperate files, it would take a very long time for me to convert it too a working WPS
17:05:21	bertrik	I'm no WPS expert, but I think you only need to edit the .wps file
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17:17:46	BigBambi	Do iPod accessories work at all without accessory power supply (unless the use just line out), or are them some self-powered accessories that work with it off, and some that need power from the dap?
17:17:56	BigBambi	s/them/there/
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17:22:28	gartral	BigBambi: i belive there was an Ipod Accessory page in the wiki?
17:23:02	BigBambi	gartral: Yes, but it just lists accessories
17:23:15	BigBambi	gartral: I'm writing the accessory power supply up for the manual
17:23:37	BigBambi	And I don't know whether they all need it (for anything other than line out), or if some are self-powered
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17:24:21	gartral	ahh, i belive i remember something about a car dock+charger that worked without it, but dont hold me too it
17:24:45	gevaerts	I would expect some to be self-powered (things like docks and car adapters actually supply power, so I don't see a real reason for them to use the accessory power provided by the player)
17:24:55	BigBambi	gevaerts: I think so too
17:25:06	BigBambi	But I have neither ipod nor accesory so I wanted to check :)
17:25:47	toffe82	Qball: Low_light : the tuner is working on the hdd6330
17:26:25	BigBambi	gevaerts: atm I have put (after a general accessory thing) "The accessory may also require power from the \dap{}, and if so you should turn this option \setting{On}. If it is not required, then turning it \setting{Off} will save battery and therefore result in better runtime."
17:26:46	gevaerts	Sounds good
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17:27:44	BigBambi	cool
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17:32:27	Qball	toffe82: nice
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17:32:46	toffe82	Qball: is there a patch for the touchpad ?
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17:33:09	Qball	no
17:33:16	Qball	only a patch to get more info from it
17:34:58	BigBambi	gevaerts: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9909 thoughts? (this is a simple one) :)
17:36:47	gevaerts	BigBambi: it looks good to me. I do predict that some people will ask how they should know whether their accessory requires this though. I vote to just ignore those :)
17:37:05	BigBambi	gevaerts: I think so - and just tell them to try it and see
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17:41:56	gevaerts	BigBambi: shouldn't it be added to appendix/config_file_options.tex as well?
17:42:43	BigBambi	gevaerts: er, yes. I'll do that now
17:42:48	BigBambi	Thanks for the reminder
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17:43:22	gevaerts	If I happen to be the commit victim, I want it to be right! ;)
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17:43:30	BigBambi	very wise :)
17:46:50	BigBambi	gevaerts: Do you know if there is any sort of order in config_file_options.tex, or if I can jyust add it at the end?
17:47:04	BigBambi	I can't see an obvious order, but you never know :)
17:47:15	gevaerts	ni idea
17:47:32	gevaerts	no idea either
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17:48:44	BigBambi	hmm, actually there might be a bit of one
17:48:51	BigBambi	I'm comparing it to a saved cfg file
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17:53:58	BigBambi	gevaerts: OK, new one up
17:54:18	BigBambi	I put it in appendix/config_file_options.tex where it appears when you save a .cfg
17:55:50	*	gevaerts test-builds againm
17:56:25	*	BigBambi did that too :)
17:56:28	gevaerts	Shall I commit it, or do you have further ideas for it?
17:56:41	BigBambi	gevaerts: No, I think it is fine
17:56:43	BigBambi	Cheers
17:57:34	gevaerts	done
17:58:01	BigBambi	muchos gracias
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18:00:20	*	BigBambi wonders what to tackle next
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18:12:43	gartral	the make reconf tool (for lack of a better word) produces a makefile that builds firmware_flash.rock for all targets >.>
18:13:04	*	BigBambi was thinking more manual related :)
18:14:20	*	gartral does through and reads the e200's manual, cover too cover
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18:15:00	Celso	hi
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18:16:16	Celso	foda
18:16:59	gartral	colso, this is a support channel, off topic stuff too #rockbox-community
18:17:29	gevaerts	gartral: it always gets built, but it doesn't get installed. I believe this is by design
18:17:56	Celso	??????????
18:18:28	Celso	???????
18:18:43	gevaerts	Celso: did you have a question?
18:18:58	gartral	ahh, well it does get installed when using a "reconf'd" build, as im staring at it on my screen >.>
18:19:34	*	gevaerts tests
18:19:56	gartral	btw, im using an e250
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18:23:54	gevaerts	gartral: I can't reproduce that here. apps/plugins/firmware_flash.rock does get built, but make zip ignores it so it doesn
18:24:04	gevaerts	t end up in the zip file. What exactly are you seeing?
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18:27:04	gartral	well, unfortunately i cant get a full log of the console im using, (putty's logging isnt very good) and i just figured it out; its cause i had edited the makefile to include extra_defines=-DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB -DUSB_NO_HIGH_SPEED once too test it
18:27:25	gartral	PEBCAK moment >.>
18:27:45	gevaerts	so? I still don't understand what you're seeing...
18:28:00	gevaerts	Also (unrelated) why -DUSB_NO_HIGH_SPEED? Any specifiv reason?
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18:28:22	gartral	umm, i was testing it after not having it...
18:28:40	gartral	just too see the (large) difference
18:29:32	gartral	here, ill upload the build i was using, if i can find it
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18:31:34	gartral	but what im seeing on my DAP is firmware_flash.rock, which doesnt do anything except spit out "incompatible model..." and returns too the the plugin menu
18:32:26	gartral	beyond that, i cant get PuTTY to give me a log thats longer than the last 300 lines
18:32:30	bertrik	that means it's an outdated version, from an earlier installation
18:32:40	gevaerts	why do you need logs?
18:32:53	gevaerts	(in this case...)
18:32:57	gartral	too show it was packed in the zip >.>
18:33:23	kadoban	throw it into a file, or use grep
18:33:32	gevaerts	so you do have a zip with it in it? Why didn't you just say that?
18:34:01	gartral	ohh.. yea, i could have
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18:35:20	bertrik	ignore my previous comment
18:35:43	gartral	yea, after having either -DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB flag
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18:36:08	gartral	in the makefile's extra_defines
18:37:33	gevaerts	So what exactly are you doing? configure, edit makefile to have -DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB, make, make reconf, make? Anything else?
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18:41:44	gartral	ok, ussually, i start by updating the source via svn co svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk Rockbox at my home dir, then i cd too my build dir at /Rockbox/sansa, then i run make clean && make reconf, drop into SCP if i want to edit my make file before i type make && make zip into the console, after which, i use SCP to grab it and 7zip to extract it to the root of my e250
18:42:34	gartral	please excuse my poor grammar
18:43:46	gevaerts	OK. That's what I'm trying as well (except that I just edit files, no scp involved). I've never seen firmware_flash.rock getting included...
18:43:55		Quit wey ()
18:44:41	gartral	well, just did it, DLing the zip now, if it IS included, ill pop it to a drop
18:46:02	gartral	and its not, i guess it was a oine time glitch...
18:46:12	gartral	thats odd
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18:48:10	gartral	well.. heres a clue, the firmware_flash i have now is from 1/19/09... keep in mind, i just noticed it this morning >.>
18:50:44	*	gevaerts tries to work out what 1/19/09 means
18:50:51	gevaerts	19th of january 2009?
18:51:28	gartral	yes.. oh right, american is different than other, i keep forgoetting that
18:51:46	gartral	others*
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19:26:19	saratoga	i don't really understand how the iram_malloc function in fs#9882 works
19:26:36	saratoga	IRAM_IBSS_SIZE is the total size of the IRAM available to a codec right?
19:26:49	saratoga	so 48k on 96k IRAM targets
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19:36:58	bluebrother	anyone around that can test a patch for rbutil on os x?
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19:46:52	Marie	I'm not sure why, but the rockbox utility keeps recognizing my 5th generation Ipod as a macpod. I just restored it on a housemate's PC
19:47:54	gartral	Marie: this is a known issue
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19:49:11	Marie	Okay, that's good to know. I'm just trying to install for the first time and it's making me crazy
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19:49:50	gevaerts	Marie: sometimes (or often?) it helps to do the bootloader install the manual way
19:49:55	gevaerts	i.e. using ipodpatcher
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19:50:44	gartral	you need too either use m1.0.7 rbutil, or do it manually via ipodpatcher
19:51:06	Marie	Okay, I'll give it a go. Thanks
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19:51:57	bluebrother	Marie: there's another case known of this. Interestingly this seems to not happen when using ipodpatcher directly, which is really strange
19:52:34	bluebrother	see http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9833 for (some) details
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19:53:37	gartral	http://download.rockbox.org/rbutil/win32/rbutilqt-v1.0.7.zip <−− seems too not have this issue, or the "no sansa found" either
19:54:04	gartral	oops, the "b" varient, sorry
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19:54:21	gartral	http://download.rockbox.org/rbutil/win32/
19:54:45	bluebrother	gartral: can you confirm that the macpod issue does not appear on 1.0.7?
19:54:51	Marie	Well, I've got ipodpatcher installed.
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19:55:06	Marie	I'll try that version, I only have the most current at the moment
19:55:09	bluebrother	would be interesting to know ...
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19:55:35	bluebrother	gartral: there's no 1.0.7b on osx.
19:55:46	gartral	yes, ive tryed it with a micro? winpod on my step brothers mac, it worked
19:55:53	gartral	oh, then 1.0.7
19:56:03	bluebrother	and you got that issue with 1.0.9?
19:56:18	gartral	1.0.8 - 1.0.9
19:56:59	bluebrother	would be nice if the people with issues would comment it on the FS task in the first place ...
19:57:04	gartral	note: 1.0.8 does not have the "no sansa found" problem, that was introduced in 1.0.9
19:57:14	bluebrother	gartral: on osx?
19:57:34	gartral	yes, but i couldnt tell you which sub#
19:57:54	bluebrother	plus, the "no sansa found" is present in 1.0.8 and 1.0.9. Definitely.
19:58:26	bluebrother	and that bug is only present on w32. If there is an issue on osx it's a different one.
19:58:29	gartral	onwindows, yes, but on his mac, it wasnt...
19:58:40	Marie	Sorry, I'm new to rockbox and opensource programs in general
19:59:18	gartral	no worries, but i think you should join #rockbox-community for general chit-chat ^_^
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20:03:54	bluebrother	just to put this clear: (1) the "no sansa found" is a w32 only issue and present in 1.0.8 and 1.0.9. (2) 1.0.9 only contains a fix for the gigabeat bootloader install, thus it's impossible that it introduced a new bug regarding sansas. (3) OS X is a bit problematic because there is no developer working on osx. If you can provide debug information to help fixing the issues please do.
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20:05:27	gartral	ohh, ok, unfortunately, i know next too nothing of mac, and didnt think to ask him how too run a debug on rbutil at the time
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20:13:15	SoapWork	If anyone would like to look at / modify - I have a ROUGH draft of a Rockbox poster for SCaLE http://pastebin.ca/1337341
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20:14:34	moos	SoapWork: What isn't rockbox? linux meh :)
20:15:03	BigBambi	soap: In't linux eithwr :)
20:15:03	SoapWork	point
20:15:21	BigBambi	er, good god - I'll try again "Isn't linux either"
20:15:44	BigBambi	SoapWork: In the 28 is that just supported?
20:15:51	BigBambi	28 targets that is
20:16:02	BigBambi	If not, you might want to put MIPS too
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20:16:12	bluebrother	rbutil for theme installation ... we need the theme site! :)
20:16:19		Join blithe [0] (n=blithe@blakesmith.me)
20:16:24	BigBambi	SoapWork: Also, no screen? Which is that?
20:17:16	scorche	i would say "28 current targets with more on the way"
20:17:48	BigBambi	SoapWork: I'd make a bit more of extending what the OF can do - i.e. SDHC
20:17:51	moos	"Total Replacement firmware for portable digital audio players" +writtren from scratch (not linux again :)
20:17:53	SoapWork	M3 will work w/o the remote, no?
20:17:56	saratoga	i would say 28 targets with N more under development where N is the number under the status link on the front page
20:17:57	BigBambi	SoapWork: But all in all nice :)
20:18:06	bluebrother	manual -> Comprehensive target-specific manual built with TeX available as pdf and html
20:18:21	bertrik	you should mention Doom :P
20:18:27	scorche	no
20:18:29	bluebrother	SoapWork: M3 has some buttons to get used without the remote
20:18:29	scorche	=P
20:18:33	saratoga	hmm though i guess counting how many are in each family is pretty hard
20:18:35	BigBambi	I think we have just swamped SoapWork :)
20:18:48	SoapWork	swamp away - there are logs
20:18:59	BigBambi	yep :)
20:19:02	SoapWork	BigBambi: yes, the 28 are the supported ones
20:19:07	scorche	SoapWork: well, how did you envision this?...i just wonder if it is too much information
20:19:13	saratoga	we probably have something like 30+ targets in SVN that aren't yet supported
20:19:20	SoapWork	scorche: I agree - bordering on TOO MUCH
20:19:22	BigBambi	SoapWork: OK, then I'd also mention the in development
20:19:52	scorche	no one is going to sit there and read this entire thing with us sitting there
20:20:06	SoapWork	scorche: which would be a good exercise for an energetic person - strip this draft down to a lean-mean one
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20:20:28	scorche	MrSomeone is typically pretty energetic
20:20:55	saratoga	theres 55 targets in the configure script
20:21:10	saratoga	54 if we count the e200R as an e200 since it basically is
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20:21:50	bluebrother	I don't feel a need to mention the committers ml
20:21:56	BigBambi	no
20:22:10	saratoga	err 53
20:22:14	Marie	Well, 1.0.7 doesn't work either. Looks like I'm stuck with itunes
20:22:38	bluebrother	Marie: have you tried ipodpatcher? And, is Itunes running?
20:22:48	Marie	Yes and yes
20:23:10	bluebrother	then quit itunes. IIRC it can cause trouble
20:23:16	Marie	This version also can't autotect a mountpoint
20:23:28	bertrik	I would concentrate on the basic advantages over the OF (IMO the fact that it is open-source, has more codecs, easier file/song browsing and the cool plugins/games). Also make it more visual by adding some screenshots.
20:24:19	bluebrother	why not make some box based layouts with some small boxes with small text holding the geek information?
20:24:29	saratoga	plus we basically have the fastest open source arm + coldfire codecs in existance
20:24:52	SoapWork	saratoga: that is something I actually wanted a brain dump on from you.
20:24:58	saratoga	i think this is true of all formats we support
20:25:02	bluebrother	everyone interested can step nearer and read them and all others don't need to bother about. Give that box(es) a nice background image and it won't distract ;-)
20:25:10	SoapWork	What arm/coldfire codecs have been ported out of rockbox?
20:25:33	saratoga	APE and WMA for sure
20:25:54	moos	musepack too
20:26:14	saratoga	our musepack codec was written by peterp, the foobar developer
20:26:14	moos	made by Buschann himself
20:26:40	moos	and optimised by Andree Buschmann one of the main guy at start IIRC
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20:27:11	moos	not to mention David Bryant for wavpack ;)
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20:28:21	scorche	SoapWork: i didnt see the need for much of the stuff (dont most projects have a wiki, ML, tracker, etc? ;) ): http://pastebin.ca/1337353
20:29:14	SoapWork	http://pastebin.ca/1337356
20:29:26	saratoga	for arm we basically have the best everything, but getting codecs out of rockbox is difficult enough that few people use our code outside of rockbox
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20:30:46	SoapWork	Thinking 22"*34" per poster.
20:31:01	SoapWork	Plenty of room for images as well.
20:31:11	SoapWork	pixelma suggested at least one tower.
20:31:26	Marie	Holy crap it's working
20:31:56	Marie	Autodetect didn't work (and hadn't with the 1.0.9) but it still installed
20:31:57		Quit blithe (Remote closed the connection)
20:32:07	SoapWork	OSX, Marie?
20:32:08		Join blithe [0] (n=blithe@blakesmith.me)
20:32:11	Marie	Yes
20:32:40	scorche	SoapWork: well if you want one tower, there is always the one tower to rule them all and in the darkness bind them...
20:33:05	Marie	This ipod has been formatted back and force between Mac and Windows about a thousand times, I thought it was my fault before I got on this channel
20:33:30	gevaerts	The big tower does have some unsupported targets in it. Every single one has run custom code though
20:33:53	SoapWork	scorche: I do think the flying buttresses need to represent
20:34:15	scorche	gevaerts: i'll allow it!
20:34:34	bluebrother	hmm. Is there a way to figure if Itunes is running on OSX from within a program? (I bet there is one, but how?)
20:34:35	*	scorche wonders if we can make a poster of that done 1:1
20:34:59	bluebrother	Marie: Rockbox Utility doesn't need a mountpoint for bootloader installation but for everything else only
20:35:01	Marie	No, Rockbox is installed and working now, as far as I can tell
20:35:27	Marie	iTunes kept popping up even though I had unchecked it to open, that probably complicated things
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20:35:48	SoapWork	scorche: your "thin" version of the poster is fine with me - but should we not mention the accessability and language support?
20:35:54	bluebrother	possible. I have no experience with Itunes or OSX unfortunately ...
20:36:03	scorche	SoapWork: that can go with the features go here
20:36:26	Marie	But its definitely not running now and and it finally worked, so I guess it's safe to call it a contraindication
20:36:59	*	bluebrother would like someone to test his OSX-only changes before committing ... it's a bit blindly doing things that feels uncomfortable
20:37:13		Quit blithe (Remote closed the connection)
20:37:17	gevaerts	SoapWork: maybe you can do something with gevaerts.be/main.php?g2_itemId=51614">http://fotos.gevaerts.be/main.php?g2_itemId=51614 ?
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20:38:06	SoapWork	that one in particular?
20:38:25	saratoga	SoapWork: I would put someting like " • 21 fixed point codecs optimized for ARM and Coldfire processors"
20:38:59	SoapWork	that's a good line, saratoga
20:40:14	SoapWork	We /could/ do two posters. Either as independent beasts, or as "partners" - one building off the other. Photos are fine. Did you see the camera-phone pic, scorche?
20:40:33	scorche	i did
20:40:41	gevaerts	SoapWork: http://picasaweb.google.be/peturbox/RockboxDevcon2008#5217048903275345378 could be useful as well
20:40:49	SoapWork	180cm long rockbox logo is bigger than I imagined.
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20:48:59	SoapWork	join #rockbox-community
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21:25:09	Mode	"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:25:19	Mode	"#rockbox +b blithe!@ " by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
21:25:30	scorche	let us know when it is fixed..
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22:02:57	Mode	"#rockbox -b blithe!@ " by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
22:04:01	Mode	"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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22:06:03	ender`	is it possible to unhide the ##MUSIC# folder on Sansa Clip when it's in MSC mode?
22:07:31	SoapWork	the OF will just rehide it again, IIRC
22:08:39		Join piotrek2234 [0] (i=piotrek2@chello084010133138.chello.pl)
22:09:41	ender`	i'd just need to see it long enough to move the files somewhere else
22:10:12	scorche	you cant do that while it is hidden?
22:10:42	ender`	it's hidden so well it only appears if i do a chkdsk /v
22:11:22		Quit roman_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:11:39	scorche	huh?....no it isnt...what operating system are you using?...windows?
22:12:11	ender`	tried both windows and linux. it's as if it's not there
22:12:20	BigBambi	It is
22:12:30	BigBambi	Just set windows and/or linux to show hidden files
22:13:00	ender`	my file manager shows them by default, but this just doesn't appear (and i can't cd to the folder from command line either)
22:13:13	BigBambi	well that's not normal
22:13:20	bluebrother	that sounds like filesystem issues
22:13:22	scorche	you cant see it with "ls -a"?
22:13:41	ender`	dir /a doesn't show it
22:14:18	scorche	in windows have you told explorer to show both hidden files and protected operating system files?
22:14:28	bertrik	AFAIR, the ## directories are not simply hidden, but have some weird combination of attributes
22:15:31	ender`	scorche: i'm not actually using explorer, and my file manager doesn't treat me like a baby
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22:15:45	ender`	bertrik: any idea what those attributes are?
22:15:49	DrEggman	I need help
22:15:51	bluebrother	attrib -s -h <file> might help
22:16:11	DrEggman	Im a newb end user without compiling tools and need to apply a patch to enable the scroll wheel in my ipod 1g
22:16:29	bertrik	the forum post has more information: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13961.msg119167#msg119167
22:16:29	DrEggman	does anyone have a simple patch for applying such a fix?
22:16:31	bluebrother	well, you need compiling tools to apply a patch
22:16:36	scorche	DrEggman: we have lots of helpful pages in the wiki for you then
22:16:44	ender`	thanks
22:17:01	bluebrother	"patch" means source code changes. Which immediately means that you need to compile.
22:17:19	DrEggman	Ive narrowed down the patch to http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8745 this .diff
22:18:04	DrEggman	I just fear this would take all weekend to fix considering my machine is Vista x64
22:18:15	DrEggman	and I find most tools are not compatible
22:18:24	SoapWork	The confusion seems to stem from the Windows and Warez world where patches are typically binary ones, whereas these are patches against source code. Since the binary of Rockbox changes so often binary patches would go quickly out of date - not to mention the fact that they are very unuseful for developement.
22:18:30	scorche	DrEggman: have you read what we have been telling you?
22:18:44	SoapWork	DrEggman: just use the VMware image - easy as pie.
22:19:03	bluebrother	SoapWork: would go quickly out of date? I'd say immediately ;-)
22:19:24	BigBambi	bluebrother: Surely there would be a few minutes on average :)
22:19:38	bluebrother	let's see if that patch still applies anyway ;-)
22:20:43	n1s	amiconn: is there a reason that the patch in FS #8778 is not committed, IIRC you didn't like it but this approach seems saner considering the situation with the 1g ipods that don't enable the wheel
22:22:19	DrEggman	Just wish I could HEX edit something on my ipod in disk mode. Easier for me than recompiling the source
22:23:26	DrEggman	my iPod version comes up as 0xFFFFFFFF so I assume its not detecting it
22:23:37	n1s	well, we couldn't tell you what to change without disassembling a binary and finding the location of the test etc
22:23:50	DrEggman	understandable
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22:24:16	scorche	DrEggman: it really is not that hard...
22:24:26	*	jhMikeS has DMA audio playback running on PP502x (playing on H10 right now)
22:24:36	scorche	the pages in the wiki even tell you the exact commands
22:24:40	n1s	jhMikeS: wow
22:24:54	DrEggman	Scorche, you're prbably right, but Im starting from ground zero with no exp in hopes it works with a x64 OS
22:25:01	bluebrother	DrEggman: for your convenience. No support, updates or whatsoever.
22:25:02	bluebrother	http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rockbox-ipod1g-fs8778.zip
22:25:16	linuxstb	jhMikeS: Nice! Will that work for recording as well?
22:25:51	DrEggman	thanks a ton blue, I will research the Wiki too so I can apply this next time.
22:25:55	jhMikeS	sure, just use another channel and dispatch to the proper handler
22:26:16	linuxstb	jhMikeS: OK, so that means the FIQ can go?
22:27:19	DrEggman	I got this iPod 1G at Goodwill yesterday for $8 in great condition. Thought I would put it to good use for .MOD, .SID, etc that my iPhone doesn't handle
22:28:20	DrEggman	blue, it works great. Thanks a ton.
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22:29:52	ender`	grr, looks like USB ports on my PC are dying
22:30:13	bluebrother	DrEggman: you might want to use the vmware image for updating this. Should be much easier than cygwin
22:31:07	jhMikeS	linuxstb: not for PP5002, and I'm still using fiq_handler
22:31:19	SoapWork	jhMikeS: is there somewhere I can read about the advantage of DMA audio over FIQ?
22:31:46	jhMikeS	SoapWork: in IRC?
22:32:02	SoapWork	I'll start searching the logs, thanks.
22:32:15	jhMikeS	all those interrupts from filling FIFOs are quite a CPU load
22:32:35	SoapWork	roughly when did the discussion start? Yesterday? Last week?
22:32:39	bertrik	SoapWork, AFAIK, using FIQ means there's an interrupt every x bytes of audio data, where x is a rather low number, so lots of interrupts
22:33:05	jhMikeS	it even made a measureable framedrop difference in mpegplayer in imx31 (for some heavy videos) so in PP it's gonna be even better for it most likely
22:33:18	jhMikeS	FIQ = interrupt type
22:33:34	SoapWork	bertrik: how does that impact buffering? Will DMA audio alone improve the slow buffering performance while music is playing?
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22:34:32	jhMikeS	audio will stay FIQ, it just won't fire nearly as often. about 2 times/s vs 7350 times/s
22:34:34	bertrik	possibly, using DMA over FIQ has the effect of reducing the overhead during playback
22:34:56		Quit t0mas ("Leaving")
22:35:17	n1s	that sounds like a really nice cpu cycle save :)
22:36:30	bertrik	and throwing away part of the current FIQ asm code, that someone probably put a lot of effort in in the past ...
22:36:44		Quit Horscht ("Verlassend")
22:38:10	jhMikeS	patch (very rough state but should work) : jhmikes.cleansoap.org/pp502x-DMA-audio-playback.diff">http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/pp502x-DMA-audio-playback.diff
22:39:49	n1s	that reminds me, i should restore my c240 that was a guinea pig in gevaerts' cruel experiment
22:40:09	BigBambi	=better battery life then I assume, which is always nice
22:44:07	rasher	jhMikeS: any idea of the impact of this?
22:44:45	jhMikeS	rasher: concretely, no. I'm guessing it should reduce cycle overhead measurably though.
22:45:17	Unhelpful	n1s: (this is clearly getting on-topic) well, plugins would handle it by allocating any items they know are going to be static, and then giving the allocator the rest of the plugin buffer for dynamic allocations.
22:45:50	n1s	ah, so it's only for plugins
22:45:51	jhMikeS	It's 176400 bytes/s + interrupt overhead the core doesn't have to deal with
22:45:57	Unhelpful	but i'm using an init to set it up, so that they can take part of the plugin buffer themselves first, if they want to, for example for allocations that are static at compile time
22:46:53	bertrik	7350 FIQ/s * (say) 200 cycles/FIQ = about 1.5M less instructions to execute
22:47:16	*	gartral inflates balloons and passes out balloon animals with speakers attached (followed by completely random!)
22:47:20	Unhelpful	or on targets with small plugin buffer, to grab a fixed chunk of the audio buffer, stopping playback just once - which is something that i'm assuming we can do based on impressionss i've been given :/
22:47:39	n1s	Unhelpful: my comment about a bufalloc that doesn't need to stop the music was more for core functions that currently require a stop or restart to alloc large chunks (like dircace etc)
22:47:39	jhMikeS	I just checked a video that would drop 23 frames to a certain point, now it only dropped 4
22:47:55	bertrik	or maybe I am grossly overestimating the # of instruction per FIQ
22:48:36	Unhelpful	n1s: i've thought about solutions for that, but it's not really related to this (i want something for hwcodec targets, also, which lack bufalloc)
22:48:58	n1s	Unhelpful: ok, i misunderstood waht you were working on :)
22:49:24	jhMikeS	bertrik: mostly the inner loop filling is important
22:49:41	Unhelpful	perhaps, for core, we could think about being able to clear only the end of the buffered audio data to meet an allocation need, rather than having to stop playback to free a buffer.
22:50:20	n1s	yeah
22:50:52	Unhelpful	thinking about that is actually related to the work i did on AA... i was thinking about how to accomodate changes in the needed AA without forcing rebuffer, and one way would be to bufalloc the AA images, and only store the handle in the track metadata
22:51:58	gartral	SVN tracker and current builds page aren't in sync...
22:52:01	Unhelpful	which led to "how do we make bufalloc work when it fails now", which put me pretty much at what you're talking about doing :)
22:52:15	n1s	is AA currently buffered per-track? if so that could be combined with some clever logic to avoid buffering the same AA over and over then
22:52:52	n1s	but yeah, one thing at a time :)
22:53:33	n1s	gartral: commits to the manual don't trigger the builds
22:54:08	gartral	ahhah
22:54:24	gartral	didn't know that
22:54:31	Unhelpful	yes, that's another potential benefit, add a refcount and the path to the AA buffer object, when buffering a new track with an already-loaded AA, just bump the AA's refcount, then decrement the refcount when clearing the track from the buffer, free the allocation when its refcount hits zero.
22:54:57	bertrik	oh I assumed it already worked like that
22:55:10	Unhelpful	but, first, i think we need to think about just putting AA in bufalloc rather than in metadata.
22:55:32	Unhelpful	bertrik: if it does, nobody told me when i asked what to do about changing the AA for a buffered track :)
22:55:38	gartral	wont that brake like every theme?
22:56:07	BigBambi	why?
22:56:15		Quit jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
22:56:17	Unhelpful	gartral: i don't see how, obviously the core functions that draw the AA will need reworked to get the AA from the buffer handle.
22:56:32	gartral	ohh, ok, me stupid >.>
22:57:09	Unhelpful	it's ok, i make my share of such comments, also. :)
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22:57:58	Unhelpful	regarding reinventing wheels, i wonder how much the bufalloc logic would need to change to accomodate using one fixed buffer, rather than a movable chunk of empty space in a ringbuffer...
22:58:07		Quit balou (Remote closed the connection)
22:58:12	bertrik	the pp-dma patch does seem to lower the average processor MHz a little, but not as much as I expected (I'm not sure about how to measure this reliably I admit)
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22:59:28	jhMikeS	bertrik: how much do you measure?
22:59:37	amiconn	bertrik: I wouldn't expect much. FIQ means fast interrupt request for a reason...
22:59:38	Unhelpful	i think that as a malloc substitute, it would only really need bufalloc, bufclose, and bufgetdata, and (just to be nice) a bufresize.
23:00
23:00:59	bertrik	I looked at the average MHz during a specific ogg song in the buffering thread debug menu, both with clean svn and with the patch, it's something like 40.something MHz vs 39.something MHz
23:04:58	bertrik	amiconn, yes I know, but it's not just the interrupt, but also the data-moving stuff in the handler that takes time
23:05:58	amiconn	Well, DMA offloads that from the CPU core, but the transfer still takes memory bandwidth. So if the CPU is doing something in SDRAM at the same time, the DMA isn't entirely free
23:09:44		Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
23:09:46	jhMikeS	They made one stupid design mistake - combining the DMA count status with the DMA interrupt clear. mpegplayer can cause it to miss so that's going to need some creativity.
23:10:17	jhMikeS	it clears by read and a halfword read from the reg doesn't cure the problem
23:11:33	bertrik	stupid indeed
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23:22:27		Quit ender` (" Why do people give each other flowers? To celebrate various important occasions, they're killing living creatures? Why rest")
23:23:26	bertrik	jhMikeS, seems to work fine here so far on my e200 (skipped around a bit in oggs and mp3s with voice enabled)
23:31:07		Nick JdGordon\|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
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23:56:25	Mouser_X	I have a question regarding the Rockbox Database. When I attempt to access the "History" section, specifically the "Most played" or "Recently played", the directory buffer is maxed out, an error is encountered, and then nothing is displayed.
23:56:49		Nick Beaver is now known as Beaver`alszik (i=balvito@dsl540010D7.pool.t-online.hu)
23:57:09	Mouser_X	My question is, why? I realize that the dir buffer was full (even though I had it set at 5000), but couldn't it display the results it did find, even though it's incomplete?

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