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#rockbox log for 2009-02-20

00:00:14linuxstbSorry, I thought the problem (at least for `Assassin) was that it was showing as untagged.
00:00:45Lloreanlinuxstb: Sounded like he was getting a mix of both. " or just in the wrong place. The ID3 info that shows gets cut off. "
00:01:05`AssassinWell sometimes they're untagged and sometimes they just have the wrong album or song name.
00:01:18Llorean`Assassin: Wrong how?
00:01:33linuxstbWrong in the database, or wrong in the while-playing screen?
00:01:44gevaertsmcuelenaere: buffer_start isn't updated by sendout(), so the usb_serial_send() puts data in the same place as the previous one if it's fast enough (i.e. before the prefious transfer completes). I think it needs a third variable besides buffer_start and buffer_length, to indicate which bit is in transit. If you don't get to it I'll have a go one of these days
00:02:13`AssassinLike for example if the song name was "Song Name" it would be cut off to "Son"
00:02:27gevaertsJust updating buffer_start in sendout() isn't enough, because then data that
00:02:37gevaerts's not on the wire yet can get overwritten
00:03:44`AssassinActually ALL of the problem files show up as untagged now that I check again.
00:03:52mcuelenaerehmm it's a bit too late for me currently to try to figure out what that code does, I'll look at it sometime later :)
00:04:02gevaertssame here :)
00:06:01 Quit bluebrother (Nick collision from services.)
00:06:06 Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
00:07:15 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
00:11:00 Join amiconn_ [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:11:00 Join pixelma_ [50] (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:11:00 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
00:11:00 Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.)
00:11:12 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:11:18 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:12:33avisi bought a sansa e270 on ebay and put rockbox on it. it apparently had some existing music files that i'd like to delete, however the Music folder seems to have group permissions belonging to root, i believe because the installer needed root permission to detect the mountpoint maybe ? anyway, i can't see to delete the existing files inside /Music. i would have thought the Music folder would be under the fat32 filesystem, seeing as it would w
00:12:33avisork under windows as well, so, i'm confused. i dont believe it had rockbox already on it.
00:13:39XenovalentI believe that both Rockbox and original firmware will find files that are NOT in /Music
00:13:50 Join FlynDice [0] (n=jack@
00:13:52XenovalentSo maybe look around in other places for the files?
00:14:19 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
00:14:33bluebrotheravis: FAT does not support file permissions
00:14:50TNTcan i get some info on cyclic redundancy check failed when installing rockbox bootloader?
00:15:05 Join flyinghippo [0] (
00:15:06bluebrotherRockbox Utility needs root permissions to install the bootloader because it writes directly to the partition
00:15:18linuxstbTNT: You already did... Did you try a different cable and/or USB port?
00:15:23avisthats what i thought, which is why i'm confused as to why i could not delete the files. i removed rockbox, so i could delete them, and maybe see if i could get the installer to find the mountpoint without prefixing a sudo before it ?
00:15:23TNTyes i did
00:15:34TNTi also jus deleted corrupted files
00:16:57Lloreanavis: The installer needs su permissions, but only for the bootloader install, which isn't installed to the filesystem you see anyway
00:17:26linuxstbTNT: What corrupted files? The bootloader install won't corrupt any files.
00:18:22avisooh ok. i did a sudo fdisk -l just to see, and it seems to indicate this about the e270 /dev/sdh2 1018 1022 20480 84 OS/2 hidden C: drive in addition to a normal /dev/sdh1 FAT32 drive
00:18:23TNTi had corrupted files on my ipod
00:18:34BigBambiTNT: If you are getting CRC errors and corrupted files and you have tried a different cable then I'd put all my cash (£7.52 since you ask) on the disk being buggered
00:18:43TNTi thought that might have messed up
00:19:21TNTi could restore my ipod but that would delete all my stuff
00:19:42TNTand since its on manually manage i have no library to restock it
00:21:23 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
00:23:23linuxstbTNT: Everything points to a hardware problem, so if I was you I would try and rescue any important files you have...
00:24:10mcuelenaerehow should I implement touchscreen calibration in apps/ ? Make a custom setting which loads a calibration screen upon 'entering' the setting? (the setting then would contain the values generated by the calibration)
00:24:34TNTdamn looks like my ipod will never run rockbox lol
00:24:46TNTwhats messed up is i've ran rockbox and linux before
00:25:17LloreanTNT: As you've been told, it's most likely a _hardware_ failure. Your iPod is getting old.
00:26:04TNTlol oh well
00:26:10 Quit MethoS- (Connection timed out)
00:26:27TNTthanks for the help.
00:26:29 Quit TNT ()
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00:27:54 Join cool_walking_ [0] (i=cb3b81c3@gateway/web/ajax/
00:30:33 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:31:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:32:33CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
00:32:33CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
00:32:33CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
00:32:35 Join JdGordon [0] (
00:32:43CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
00:35:48 Quit mcuelenaere (""Good night"")
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00:44:11jhMikeShmmm...I can get back 8k RAM by reclaiming IRAM and vectors for non-initialized sections on PP.
00:46:31 Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection)
00:54:41*jhMikeS gets miffed again that there isn't just one for PP devices :\
00:57:42 Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi)
00:58:39 Quit `Assassin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:00:56 Join CaptainKewl [0] (
01:02:36 Quit HellDragon (Client Quit)
01:03:20linuxstbjhMikeS: Make one...
01:03:45jhMikeSthere was just one and then it got split into many identical files
01:04:55jhMikeSI don't really know when that occurred...will it find the correct if it's just in the arm directory with other PP files?
01:05:51linuxstbI don't know - I'm just trying to find where that build code lives...
01:05:53 Join HellDragon [0] (
01:06:45linuxstbI'm guessing it may be due to the fact that there is no "portalplayer" level in target-tree though.
01:07:05 Quit SoapWork ("CGI:IRC")
01:07:39linuxstbYes, it's defined as $(FIRMDIR)/target/$(CPU)/$(MANUFACTURER)/
01:07:46linuxstb(in tools/root.make)
01:08:39*linuxstb wonders if an lds file can #include another one.
01:09:10*linuxstb sees it can - it's run through cpp
01:09:47*linuxstb doesn't know if he thinks that's a nice solution though
01:11:24*linuxstb sees there are 5 identical copies of the PP
01:11:45linuxstb(ipod, iriver, olympus, phillips and sandisk)
01:12:43linuxstbThe two coldfire ones are almost identical (just an #ifdef difference for IRAMSIZE)
01:15:47 Quit xSlack (Connection timed out)
01:18:06jhMikeSwith an #include, those things could be defined before it which actually would be kind of decent
01:21:05 Quit faemir ("Lost terminal")
01:22:49Unhelpfulpixelma: the track list in pictureflow should scroll to keep the selected track on the screen, and should scroll long track names left<->right (i think it might only do that for the selected one). i believe i remember that acting strange on c200 sim, though, as well.
01:24:02Unhelpfulare the instructions at up to date? i seem to recall it hanging last time i tried, as soon as logf was called
01:25:19 Join xSlack [0] (
01:25:30*jhMikeS wonders if he should bother with that right now or just deal with the redundancy just in case that solution is widely disliked
01:27:16LloreanjhMikeS: Maybe send the proposed solution to -dev and give it over the weekend for people to see if there are any significant problems from it?
01:28:17jhMikeSLlorean: if it just includes the content of the file, I see no technical hurdle, but then maybe some better suggestion will surface if I do that.
01:29:29jhMikeSThe reclaiming of the DRAM doesn't have wait that out though
01:30:09linuxstbPeople have talked about creating a PP directory in target-tree, and moving things in there. So there would be a target/arm/pp/ directory - the would live there.
01:30:47pixelmaUnhelpful: ok, that explains it... I didn't know that it should only scroll the selected track and keep it on the screen. So it does if the first track is long enough (and looks disturbing if it only as to scroll 1 or 2 pixels) and since you can't go down in the track list on the c200 I can't test the rest
01:31:02jhMikeSthat would be better IMO since that code certainly isn't generic ARM
01:32:26jhMikeSI wonder if 5002/502x should fork as well ??
01:33:02pixelmaUnhelpful: and found a bug while testing this - entering the first "album" list, the <untagged> one in my case real quick results in various data and prefetch aborts. Most notable I got "Prefetch abort at DEADBEEE (0)" now ;)
01:36:05jhMikeSwhen it's DEADBEEE/C0EDBABE/DEADDEAC things are really messed up (seen all those myself :)
01:38:43cool_walking_What's a deac?
01:39:25pixelmahmm, it doesn't seem to be timing (I thought it would because it was right one time after looking at some other albums first) but now I always get it. DEADBEEE when it's the first album I look at, looking at a few others it's "Data abort at 01F80F88", would have to test more to understant the conditions under which happens which
01:40:27pixelmalooking at a few others before entering the <untagged> one, I meant. Other albums seem to be ok in a first quick test
01:40:32FlynDicekugel: Has anyone mentioned that r20051 broke the e200v2 yet?
01:43:35jhMikeScool_walking_: DEADDEAC = "dead duck" afaict
01:45:37 Part toffe82
01:46:13Unhelpfulpixelma: HRM. pf starts by dumping all of the album titles into a string table. i wonder if something goes wrong when it fetches data for an untagged album... do we return some sentinel value indicating "no title", or do we return descriptive text, in that case?
01:47:47pixelmathat <untagged> is a group the database puts all untagged albums into. I wonder though why it worked correctly one time
01:51:08 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:51:18 Quit lymeca ("KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo")
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01:57:24flyinghippoFlynDice: What do you mean "Broke"? As in bricked?
01:58:13FlynDicenot bricked just broke the lcd function
01:58:51flyinghippoOh. For a second I thought you meant it broke the compatibility barrier, and I was kind of excited, being a 260v2 owner. :P
01:59:07Unhelpfulpixelma: and this is with svn, without the pictureflow patches from FS #9919, right? there are a few things i know are still broken in that patch :)
01:59:58 Join lee321987 [0] (n=chatzill@
02:00:14pixelmano pictureflow patches, basically SVN with Rockbox USB enabled
02:01:17lee321987FS #9910 is titled "Use DMA engine for audio playback on PP502x targets". Am I right that this will not effect flash based tagets?
02:01:56 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@
02:03:04Lloreanlee321987: Why wouldn't it? The patch description even mentions it affecting the e200 which is flash based...
02:03:33lee321987oh. sorry. thanks
02:03:37*Llorean would suggest at least reading the patch description for answers before asking about it.
02:03:59 Quit lee321987 (Client Quit)
02:04:38 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
02:04:44 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
02:15:47 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:20:12 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:26:16Unhelpful..hrm, ok, i must be missing something. my e200 hangs on USB plug after enabling logf over usb.
02:26:25 Quit Aurix_Lexico ("Leaving.")
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02:30:40 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
02:31:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:35:25kugelFlynDice: No. What broke?
02:35:45kugelIt was basically the same patch I put on the forums which was tested
02:38:09 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
02:39:31 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:40:00FlynDicekugel: The screen seems to hang on the bootloader as if the lcd was not being updated and then about a minute later the menu screen comes up
02:40:35FlynDiceThe music is playing and I can control it with buttons but screen is static
02:40:37kugelFlynDice: hm? so after a minute the main menu shows fine?
02:41:11FlynDiceIts as if there's a minute lag
02:41:42FlynDiceminute as in 60 secs not small... ;)
02:42:30 Join Empathy [0] (n=David@
02:42:42FlynDiceI reverted to the previous and it was working fine
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02:43:28kugelFlynDice: that sounds weird
02:44:00kugelbut after this 1 min, everything works normally?
02:44:26kugelIf yes, I have my doubts that my commit caused that (and again, the patch was tested by guys in the forum and domonoky)
02:44:38 Join fyrestorm [0] (
02:45:14EmpathyCan Rockbox's databasing system database files in the iPod_Control folder without setting View All Files to on?
02:45:37LloreanIt's called "View" all files
02:45:46LloreanIt only affects what you can see, not what anything else has access to.
02:45:48 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:46:13saratogaanyone think its worth desoldering the CPU and tracing out the pins?
02:46:21FlynDiceok I just timed it, 23 seconds, the menu screen shows, buttons seem unresponsive visually but I can control the music play & volume with buttons and scrollwheel
02:46:40Unhelpfuldirectories are excluded from the database by marking them, via the presence of a file name "database.ignore", if i recall correctly. any directory without one should be scanned.
02:46:41kugelFlynDice: can you check your e200v2 for disk errors first? I've noticed noticeable longer boot times on my fuze too, but they disappeared after running chkdisk (which found errors)
02:48:11FlynDiceit works fine with 20050 though, it is booting up as the music starts playing before the menu shows
02:48:24kugeland really, that doesn't sound related. if the lcd was messed up, ok, but this sounds like some other issue to me
02:48:50EmpathyI still havent got around to looking at it, but how difficult would it be to add the tta decoder to RockBox with my basic, freshman level knowledge of C
02:48:50 Quit saratoga (Client Quit)
02:48:57kugelyou've changed the start screen option?
02:50:26 Quit midijunkie ("?(???~ē~)?")
02:55:14FlynDiceperhaps it started playing because I was pushing buttons trying to get a response?
02:55:57 Quit jaked_ ("leaving")
02:56:55 Part Xenovalent
02:57:24FlynDiceI reverted back to 20050 with the only change being lcd-200v2.c and the lcd seems to work fine
02:57:32kugelFlynDice: hm, I just see a typo in the code
02:57:36 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:58:07kugelFlynDice: try this please:
02:58:49kugelI wonder how the patch was working for domonoky
02:59:07kugel(if the typo was causing it, that is)
03:05:15 Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.)
03:05:20 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
03:08:00FlynDicestill the same
03:08:56FlynDicewait maybe not so much lag but still there
03:10:05kugelcan you please explain more?
03:11:04FlynDicestill testing... now the cabbie backdrop is displayed normally but there's still a wait for menus
03:11:31FlynDiceI can control the music functions even though the screen is not updating
03:11:49kugelI cannot explain how my commit could introduce delay :S
03:12:10 Join sarixe [0] (
03:12:50FlynDiceyou said domonoky tried it on hes e200?
03:13:11kugelFlynDice: try this one
03:15:45FlynDiceis that patch against svn or the patched file...?
03:16:08kugelagainst svn
03:16:54 Quit balou (Remote closed the connection)
03:16:57FlynDiceok lemme try again i's complaining about a /*
03:17:43 Join balou [0] (
03:20:44kugelFlynDice: a probably a comment, can you resolve that yourself?
03:21:28FlynDiceI'm looking.. I'm pretty new to the whole patch process though.
03:22:11kugelFlynDice: just edit lcd-e200v2.c
03:22:29kugelor did you not revert before applying the second patch?
03:22:42FlynDiceyes I reverted
03:22:59FlynDice3 times......
03:23:27kugel1x is enough :p
03:23:58kugel"svn revert firmware/..../lcd-e200v2.c"
03:29:43FlynDicecan you try another diff?
03:30:42kugelFlynDice: just forget about the previous one, and try this please
03:30:57kugelthis is against svn again, so revert lcd-e200v2.c before
03:37:16Unhelpfulsplashf from a thread, probably bad idea?
03:37:52jhMikeSeh? that's np.
03:38:14FlynDiceI don't know why this isn't working, I have been reverting and patch keeps complaining. Anything different I need to do besides cut and paste the pastebin?
03:39:24kugelFlynDice: oh you mean the applying already fails?
03:39:57kugelwell, how do you download from pastie? you're supposed to click on download on the right side (or raw, then hit ctrl+s)
03:40:35FlynDiceI've been cut & pasting from my browser, let me try that.
03:41:33UnhelpfuljhMikeS: erm, i suppose it wouldn't be, would it, since threads aren't truly concurrent. i'm trying to debug a hang in FS #9919, which only occurs on target so far, and since i can't get usb logf to do anything but hang on plug... :/
03:42:10 Quit flyinghippo ("Nettalk6 -")
03:43:45FlynDiceworking now gimme a minute
03:48:27jhMikeSUnhelpful: I call them from whereever if just debugging something
03:49:02FlynDiceabout the same. The backdrop gets displayed without the menu. If I keep the backlight on by using button or scrollwheel the menu doesn't show. Menu finally shows after I allow the backlight to turn off and then press a button or scroll
03:49:10Unhelpfulif i can figure out how to at least stop it from actually hanging, i could just use logf :/
03:49:23Unhelpful"regular" non-serial logf, that is.
03:49:53jhMikeSweird that the binsize table for SH doesn't show a size savings because my rockbox-info.txt clearly shows a RAM savings (-1808 bytes for player)
03:50:07jhMikeSor is that using the rom image?
03:51:14Unhelpfuli thought the binsize table was "combined"...
03:51:15jhMikeSUnhelpful: Well, use the splashes to find that (or flash the wheel light if your really up the creek)
03:51:46jhMikeSUnhelpful: It's averaged between RAM/binsize so -1808 should definitely show even without a binsize reduction
03:52:00Unhelpfulvoid flash_wheel_light_morse(const char *message) ?
03:53:08Unhelpfulyes, half of that is still quite large enough not to round away... it's also much larger than the host-to-host variations in bin/ram size we've had for a bit now, so it wasn't eaten by one of those...
03:53:08jhMikeSdoes that function exist already?
03:53:27UnhelpfuljhMikeS: no, and i don't really want to write it. :)
03:53:48jhMikeSI think blinking is sufficient to at least say "I got this far"
03:54:23Unhelpfulbonus points for writing it (char * format, ...) ;)
03:55:50kugelFlynDice: ok, last try: (revert again before applying)
03:56:01jhMikeSint x; for (x = 0; x < 2; x++) { WHEEL_GPIO &= ~WHEEL_BIT; udelay(250000); WHEEL_GPIO |= WHEEL_BIT; udelay(250000); }
03:56:10FlynDicegot it
03:56:58jhMikeSor rather WHEEL_LIGHT_GPIO/BIT (you get the idea)
03:57:36*jhMikeS waits for bonus points
03:57:44kugelUnhelpful: reminds me of the "let wheel light blink to the beat of the music"-patch
03:59:44Unhelpfulhrm, actually, instead of morse, maybe some serial protocol.... you could hook a light sensor up to a PC serial port to read it out :)
04:00:16jhMikeSthen you'd need the LED blinker to debug that one :)
04:01:46jhMikeSI had that idea as a substitute for no SPDIF output (wrong wavelength anyway not to mention latency trouble) :(
04:02:40FlynDicekugel: mostly the same but now the play button will take me right into wps. other buttons and scrollwheel have no effect until then
04:05:00FlynDicekugel:gotta go for a bit here to enjoy 6th grade math homework ;)
04:05:29Empathyugh this .sh file to setup rockbox source on linux
04:05:31Empathyis very long
04:07:04LloreanEmpathy: The .sh is to set up the cross-compilers.
04:07:28Empathyyeah its been running about 15 minutes now on my Linux VM
04:08:04kugelFlynDice: can you try one more patch?
04:08:15LloreanEmpathy: It can take a considerable amount of time if you're trying to set all of them up.
04:08:44Empathyi thought i just selected the ipod stuff
04:08:51LloreanjhMikeS: Do you happen to know if the H100 optical out always is 16/44.1 or if, because it's before DAC, it's more flexible?
04:09:02LloreanEmpathy: Well then it won't take *quite* as long, but it's still not quick
04:09:02FlynDicepost it and I'll get it when
04:09:10FlynDiceI can
04:09:23jhMikeSLlorean: It's not. It switches with the sample rate.
04:10:04LloreanjhMikeS: switches with the sample rate?
04:10:11LloreanOh, it's not limited.
04:10:16LloreanI was thinking "not more flexible"
04:10:33LloreanIs there an upper limit?
04:11:41jhMikeSNot sure about that regarding the transceiver.
04:11:59LloreanPeople were asking about 24/192 on the forums, I think.
04:12:03LloreanAnd 24/96
04:13:10kugelFlynDice: alright, here it is:
04:13:16jhMikeSIf you mean recording, it follows whatever is put into it and rounds to the master table of frequencies. 24-bit recording isn't possible at this point though.
04:14:01*Unhelpful thinks 24- or 32-bit out, where supported, would be helpful for running DSP with less aliasing / less risk of overflow
04:14:01jhMikeSand why would anyone want 192 kHz? do they record bat sonar?
04:14:19jhMikeSall DSP in the core is 32 bit
04:14:26LloreanjhMikeS: No, playback through the optical output.
04:15:01UnhelpfuljhMikeS: because DVD-A / SCD marketing / reading head-fi have convinced them that there's some sort of magic harmonic effect that causes audible changes in quality with the removal of inaudible frequencies
04:15:09jhMikeSit puts out 88.2 kHz/ 16-bit. 24-bit is potentially possible but 88.2 kHz is the limit for the clocking combo
04:15:29UnhelpfuljhMikeS: right, but then we truncate/round/dither it back down to 16-bit for output, right?
04:15:59jhMikeSUnhelpful: At the very last stage before IIS, yes. The only thing mixed after that is voice and beeps.
04:16:04kugelFlynDice: oops, this one: (against svn)
04:16:47 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner]")
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04:20:32Empathyoh yay its done
04:20:57jhMikeSUnhelpful: If you can't hear inaudible frequencies then you're just an amateur :p
04:23:52 Join kkurbjun [0] (
04:25:25kkurbjunis anyone around that has some knowledge of licenses?
04:25:46kkurbjunit looks like the generic touchscreen code is not quite gpl compatible
04:25:57LloreanWhat's the license?
04:26:23kkurbjunif you read the based on section
04:26:37kkurbjunthe main part I would be worried about is the last paragraph
04:27:04LloreanThat's definitely incompatible since it mandates you can't charge for it.
04:28:19 Quit AndyI (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:28:32kkurbjunshould it be reverted now or should Maurus do it?
04:30:06 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (n=stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
04:30:45LloreanCan it be reverted 'cleanly' (without breaking compiling)?
04:31:04kkurbjunit would require pulling a bunch of changes
04:31:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:31:23kkurbjunsince a couple of problems came up when it was committed
04:31:44kkurbjunI'm not very familiar with reverting stuff myself though
04:31:44LloreanDunno. It definitely needs to go unless that code is available under the GPL too.
04:32:33LloreanBut there's no harm in leaving it until he can deal with it, I think. We're not distributing D2 builds, right?
04:33:30kkurbjunnope.. I don't think there's a way someone could download the current build
04:33:49kkurbjunI mean, it's being built, but we don't give a link for it
04:34:44LloreanIt needs to be cleared up, but it's probably best then to wait for him to get back and decide the best way for it to be dealt with
04:35:07kkurbjunfair enough, I have no complaints, I was just worried about the license
04:39:00jhMikeShow about get in contact with the author?
04:39:20kkurbjunyeah, that's always an option too
04:45:23jhMikeSof course, if we wish to split the hair on a bald lawyer's head, is charging for services charging for "it" or is someone modifying rockbox and charging for that really charging for "it" unless they modify that code in particular?
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04:57:18LloreanjhMikeS: The license isn't well written.
04:57:39Lloreantechnically I think it says it's legal for us to sell the original program, but not modifications to it or modified copies of it. Heh.
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05:03:33jhMikeSWhat's a "program"? And it depends on what the meaning of "is" is.
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05:09:03*Llorean didn't realize touchscreen calibration took into account rotation.
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05:10:57LloreanAnyway, looking at the program it's not terribly complex. Even if we can't use that, it oughtn't be too hard to implement an equivalent.
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05:14:50jhMikeSLlorean: I think I agree most on that point, even though it would probably end up mostly the same ;) (some things just do that)
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05:15:50LloreanWell yeah
05:15:54LloreanIt's some basic matrix operations.
05:16:02LloreanYou can't really do it very differently.
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05:18:23Empathyis it normal to see a few warnings when running the make command on rockbox?
05:19:03LloreanEmpathy: If there are expected to be warnings, they'll show up on as yellow builds
05:22:05Empathyit gave me like a handful of warnings after generating dependencies
05:22:13Empathyon some fwrite stuff i think
05:22:25Empathyand this was a build i just grabbed off of svn
05:23:30LloreanWell, as I just showed you, the official buildservers aren't having any problems compiling. No warnings.
05:25:25Empathyill see if it crops up again
05:25:30Empathymay have just been a fluke
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05:26:49Empathyhow would one add a new codec for RockBox to use?
05:27:24*jhMikeS finds it a bit amusing that the player's .map (for archos.mod) shows addresses in 64 bits
05:28:37Empathymkay so i can apply these instructions to the libtta source i got
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05:28:49Empathyttalib.c & accompanying files
05:29:40LloreanEmpathy: If it's not fixed point, there's going to be a lot of work converting.
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05:30:18*Empathy is not terribly great at C, what do you mean exactly?
05:30:53LloreanAlso, what license is it under?
05:32:14LloreanI don't see it immediately on their website, but I did see one line about not being allowed to sell it, which would suggest GPL incompatibility.
05:32:17EmpathyTTA is free to redistribute in source and binary form with or without modification, provided the copyright notice is not altered, the copyright is included in documentation, and TTA's name is not used to endorse implementing products
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05:32:46EmpathyI'll pastebin the whole disclaimer thing
05:35:36*Llorean wonders why they opted for a custom license.
05:35:52Empathyi dont particularly know.
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05:36:13LloreanI don't think it's GPL compatible though, since it introduces restrictions beyond those of the GPL
05:36:47Empathybottom of their siet
05:37:00Empathyoh nevermind
05:37:37Empathytheres a bit about the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 at the bottom of their site
05:37:55LloreanYeah, that's just what the documentation on their site is licensed under...
05:38:04Empathyyeah i figured
05:38:39EmpathyStill would like to be able to implement this codec even if its just for myself personally
05:39:59LloreanWell, it says it's designed for hardware decoders. They might've designed it fixed point (haven't looked) but if not you'll have to convert it to use fixed point math if you want decent performance out of it (Google can help somewhat with information regarding floating vs fixed point)
05:40:18LloreanThere's also a spot on their site I saw which mentioned you can contact them if you want to license it under different terms
05:40:28Empathyyeah but look at their site's last update time
05:40:33Empathyi wouldnt hold my breath on that
05:40:39LloreanSo you're just not gonna bother?
05:40:59Empathyon relicensing it?
05:42:08LloreanWhat harm could it do? The very worst case is that it'll still be licensed the way it is. The best is that they say "yes, Rockbox can use it as GPLv2 or later"
05:42:20Empathyif they respond at all
05:42:32Empathyim just saying they havent updated their site in 2 years nearly
05:42:40LloreanAgain, what harm could it do?
05:43:03LloreanIn the time you've been talking to me about it, you could've filed off an email and promptly forgotten about it until such time as they possibly responded.
05:43:13Empathyi suppose. i'll send one when im not watching hockey
05:45:41Empathyis there any telltale sign of the code not using fixed point math?
05:46:40Lloreanuse of floats and doubles would be favorite.
05:47:50LloreanAlso the site seemed to suggest it was C/C++, and you're going to want pure C.
05:48:15Empathythe hardware 1.2 library only has .c and .h files
05:55:56Empathyhm i havent seen any cases of floating point math in the decoder.c or in the .h files for it
05:56:14Empathythough there is one #define with a long decimal in one .h, and one struct with a double in it in another
05:59:45saratogahow odd that the encoder is GPLed but not the decoder
05:59:54Empathygo figure.
06:00:24Empathyi havent found any cases of floating math in the files...
06:01:49Empathyah there are some cases but theyre typecast to (int)
06:01:55saratogawow the entire decoder is only 99 lines long ignoring init
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06:03:53Lloreansaratoga: I don't know *anything* about audio encoding/decoding, so this may be a horribly stupid question.
06:04:20LloreanThe site mentioned that it takes equal time to decode and encode. Could you use the encoder to write a decoder (are these kinds of processes somewhat reversible ever?)
06:04:46saratogaLlorean: yeah probably
06:05:06saratogai think you could just use the decoder to write a new decoder though
06:05:19Empathyso these lines that use double values in the code that are typecast to int, are they okay or do i need to tweak them?
06:06:03saratogaEmpathy: are you looking at the hardware decoder? its already interger
06:06:26Empathytheres a double constant FRAME_TIME thats like 1.04....something
06:06:31Empathythen double info->COMPRESS
06:06:46Empathythough any time theyre used the result is typecast to int
06:07:03saratogathe compression ratio is just metadata, you can store it however you like
06:07:11saratogathe rest of the codec is integer
06:07:23Empathyinfo->COMPRESS = (double) datasize/origsize;
06:07:25Empathyis fine?
06:07:52saratogaI mean its trivially fixed
06:08:17Empathyso it wont have any bearing on the performance of the codec then
06:08:32Empathybasically what your saying is that its file info, who gives?
06:08:56Empathyok cool.
06:09:02saratogaI don't even think you need that info
06:09:24Empathyprobably not but im not about to go tweaking code that i can only just barely understand
06:09:50saratogaEmpathy: you can't understand the bitrate calculation?
06:10:02Empathyno just the whole thing in general gives me a headache lol.
06:10:04saratogaits 2 lines long
06:10:11Empathyi took a 10 week course on C and didnt like it much
06:10:21Empathyconversely, I like PHP and Java a lot.
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06:13:11Empathyso to do this i just need to drop the ttadec.c and its 3 .h files into the codec directory
06:13:17Empathyand a few other things
06:14:52aviscan you use rhythmbox to add music to a rockbox e270 ?
06:15:31Lloreanavis: That very much depends on rhytmbox
06:15:53LloreanRockbox doesn't care about where the music is on the player, as long as it still has the proper extension and it isn't encrypted
06:16:37aviswell i used it. and it seemed to not add it to the Music folder but rather one level before it. i however wanted to simply select one song, and have it play that song, then select any other song, and play from all songs at random, infinitely
06:17:24LloreanI don't understand what you're asking, exactly. If you don't like where Rythmbox places your music, talk to its devs...
06:17:47avisi have selected "random" and repeat "all" i've also tried repeat to "random" and it still wont advance to the new song
06:18:29avisi want to play a random song, and repeat infinitely, and i assumed it wouldn't do that because of the placement of the files, but i could be wrong
06:18:31LloreanRockbox doesn't have a "random" option
06:18:34LloreanDo you mean "shuffle"?
06:18:40avisyes shuffle
06:19:00LloreanHave you read the manual?
06:19:10saratogaactually, the XMMS plugin looks to have the exact same code but under a GPL license
06:19:12LloreanShuffle shuffles a playlist. If you only have a single song in the playlist, that one song will play forever.
06:19:17saratogaso I guess TTA is GPLed
06:19:23Lloreanyou need to be playing a playlist of all your music, and shuffle it.
06:19:29avisooh ok
06:19:46Lloreansaratoga: As long as they got it under that license legally, yes.
06:20:01saratogaits on the guys site
06:20:05LloreanAh, well then
06:20:09LloreanSounds good.
06:21:38Empathyshould i just dump the files from the library download into the codecs directory or should i adjust things to match the other codecs already there
06:21:54Empathyi.e. move the .h files into a subfolder (and fix the includes in the .c?)
06:23:14saratogaEmpathy: did you take a look at the how to write codecs wiki page?
06:23:34Empathyi kinda skimmed it and then hopped down to the "adding a codec" bit
06:23:49saratogawell theres your problem
06:25:36Empathywell ill be damned i dont know what im doing since im in over my basic programming head
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06:28:09kadobanEmpathy: you do realize that it's not just a matter of putting the files in the right place, right? the codec has to work with rockbox...
06:29:46Empathyi get it
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06:32:22scorche|sh22:22 <@scorche|sh> MBI: did you check out that BSG episode where they first start the revolution?
06:32:26scorche|sh22:23 <@scorche|sh> specifically, the locks on the munitions locker?
06:32:32scorche|shdamn right-click...sorry..
06:37:10Empathykadoban: so im not looking at using the ttadec.c that came with the hardware decoder package, but rather implementing the ttalib.h and ttadec.h to work with RB?
06:38:02kadobanEmpathy: you have to look at and understand the files you have, look at and understand how a codec works in rockbox, and change the code you have so that it does what rockbox expects
06:38:50Empathyk i think i get it
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07:28:35UnhelpfuljhMikeS: hrm, well, splashf works just fine, sort of... i'm still not getting much of anywhere at figuring out why it magically hangs only on target... perhaps buf_alloc, which uses the plugin buffer, is going wrong, and corrupting plugin data or code, which i would imagine is much less likely on sim?
07:30:28Unhelpfulit certainly looks as if the sim just hands plugins a buffer the size of the platform plugin buffer, which of course has no *code* in it on sim
07:31:15earHurtsso start by memseting your buffer?
07:32:01Unhelpfulnot really sure how that would help?
07:32:48earHurtswell, any code in the buffer (as yu hypothesize), becomes just a zero byte
07:35:10Unhelpfulhrm, i'm definitely having some lock/stall problems after .enabling rockbox usb :/
07:37:15Unhelpfulhrm, i don't like at all that after the first splashf reports an error, nothing *else* happens...
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07:54:41tmztavis: where you using the libmtp or the storage mode?
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10:20:25*freqmod_gq thinks that the sansa clip (4gb) has the same sd problems as fuse, e200v2 etc as he is not able to access certain folders, even after reboot
10:24:38amiconnAll the ams sansa targets have that
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10:38:14*pondlife returns wondering if make reconf should really tell the user to run make reconf...
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10:47:38Zagorpondlife: of course it should it should should
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10:48:05amiconnZagor: why?
10:48:26Zagoramiconn: it was a poor joke
10:48:41LinusNpondlife: how long is a bufalloc handle valid?
10:48:59pondlifeLinusN: I assumed forever
10:49:13pondlifeOr until bufclose() is called
10:49:27LinusNpondlife: are you sure you want to use bufalloc() and not buffer_alloc()?
10:49:54pondlifeI thought bufalloc() was safer though.
10:50:15amiconnbufalloc handles all become invalid if a plugin (or something else like the usb stack) calls plugin_get_audio_buffer()
10:50:30pondlifeAh, ok... that's not good
10:50:37amiconnAt least that's how I understand it
10:50:42pondlifeBut buffer_alloc is a permanent allocation?
10:50:55LinusNbut it requires a reboot
10:51:16LinusN(in the current implementation)
10:51:18pondlifeThat's no good - can I get away with a playback stop/start?
10:51:32amiconnThere's the idea to rewrite the buffer_alloc mechanism so that a global reallocation would be possible without reboot
10:51:41pondlifeI guess I need to do whatever's done for crossfade...
10:51:46LinusNthat's how it should work, but i haven't gotten that far with the buffer_alloc handling
10:51:50pondlifeAh, ok
10:51:59pondlifeThat's why I thought bufalloc was safer
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10:53:32amiconnjhMikeS: Nice RAM reclaim, btw :)
10:53:43IuDeXis someone working on clip?
10:53:49pondlifeIs there a way to ask buffering if a handle is still valid?
10:53:56amiconnjhMikeS: Did you get any further wrt long calls on arm?
10:54:18amiconnpondlife: What are you working on, btw?
10:54:30pondlifeNothing much, just the timestretch
10:54:50pondlifeFS #8894
10:55:41pondlifeBut no free time really, so I doubt it'll get done
10:56:13IuDeXI don't know what's with funman but no funman = no progress
10:56:27IuDeXDo you know anything about he?;)
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10:57:44B4gderI wouldn't sat exactly "no progress"
10:57:58B4gderbut slower, sure
10:58:13B4gderless dev time tends to lead to that
10:58:14IuDeXI'm talking about Clip.
10:58:26B4gderyes, I read you
10:58:55B4gderclip is an ams sansa
10:59:27pondlifeUrgh, audio_get_buffer() is in playback.c... why not in buffering?
10:59:29B4gderand they share a lot, thus generic ams sansa fixes => clip improvements too
11:00:21pondlifeIt doesn't even tell buffering.c that the buffer has been stolen, IIUC.
11:01:09pondlifeand I'm not sure we should need buffer_state
11:01:14IuDeXon actual RB build I can play music (skips only on VBR MP3's), but I can't access all folders
11:01:29IuDeXso there's small progress ;]
11:01:45pondlifeIuDeX: You can probably accress the first 1GB, right?
11:01:55amiconnZagor: Btw, did you get anywhere with the Clip v2?
11:02:01*amiconn ponders geting one
11:02:17IuDeXpondlife: probably yes ;]
11:02:26IuDeXpondlife: I'll test it today.
11:02:29Zagoramiconn: I haven't done anything with it yet :-( too much "real life"
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11:04:14IuDeXOk. I'll try formats, which can be played with clip.(eh... my English isn't very well ;p)
11:06:16IuDeXok, bye
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11:07:42freqmod_gqIuDex: AFAIK the clip works well except the problems common on all sansa ams ports, and there are somebody working on i.e. the fuze which will hopefully help clip
11:08:00*freqmod_gq needs to scroll down his backlog
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11:24:02pondlifeLinusN: Do you know if anyone is planning on the buffer_alloc() rework? If not, I might do some audio_get_buffer() reworking instead....
11:26:27amiconnWhy not just use buffer_alloc, and live with the reboot to activate it? Several other settings do that
11:27:06pondlifeThat would make more sense if there was an explicit enable setting. Currently it auto-enables when the speed isn't 100%.
11:27:25pondlifeIt should probably not persist that anyway, and act like pitch.
11:27:43pondlifeThey should be one feature in the UI anyway (i.e.pitch/speed)
11:28:08amiconnYou could make time stretching an explicit setting. Not enabled -> not time stretch, only classic pitch
11:28:38pondlifeYes, that was my thought too. Those who want timestretch (and less battery life) can enable it
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11:28:53amiconnOr you could make it reset every time playback stops. Then you can use bufallow without further adjustment
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11:29:40amiconn(the nasty bug gevaerts discovered needs to be fixed as well though)
11:30:54Chestetahey anyone out there know if mkamsboot is working in the latest svn? I just tried to run it (after making it) and says "bash:mkamsboot: command not found"
11:40:06freqmod_gqChanServ: it works here, however you have to go to rockbox/rbutil/mkamsboot
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11:40:14freqmod_gqand run make there first
11:40:41freqmod_gqthat requires arm-elf-* (toolchain) in path
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11:44:01Chestetayea im running it from there... idk if i installed toolchain; was that listed as something to dl when initally setting up cygwin for rockbox?
11:44:21Chestetai already have/had run make there
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11:45:47gevaertsChesteta: . isn't in your PATH by default
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11:52:12Chestetaok, how can i put it in my path? I keep having trouble with my PATH apparently :?
11:53:23freqmod_gqdo "export PATH=.../arm-elf/bin:$PATH"
11:53:28gevaertsI wouldn't recommend putting it in your PATH. Try ./mkamsboot
11:53:29freqmod_gqin the bash prompt
11:53:43freqmod_gqfor the toolchain
11:57:45Chestetafreqmod_gq: i tried running "export PATH=.../arm-elf/bin:$PATH" and nothing has changed as far as running mkamsboot goes...
11:58:02freqmod_gqwell did you manage to build mkamsboot?
11:58:14B4gderdon't put it in your path, that's not a sane way
11:58:17Chestetai have mkamsboot.exe in the mkamsboot folder
11:58:24freqmod_gqand btw ... has to be swapped with the path of the toolchain.
11:58:38freqmod_gqwell then cd to that folder and run "./mkamsboot"
11:58:45freqmod_gqor maybe ./mkamsboot.exe
11:58:52freqmod_gqand don't put that in your path
11:59:05freqmod_gqthe export command was for putting the toolchain in your path
11:59:10freqmod_gqand not mkamsboot
11:59:50Chestetaok; do I have to do anything to get mkamsboot running? i ahve tried typing "mkamsboot e200pa.bin bootloader-e200v2.sansa boot.bin" and have had no luck
11:59:58freqmod_gq./ first
12:00:11freqmod_gqi.e. ./mk...
12:00:59Chestetait just goes back to the $ prompt; it does not generate a boot.bin file
12:01:26freqmod_gqit should print a copyright paragraph and:
12:01:29Chestetaand if i remember correctly, mkamsboot is supposed to take some time to process the file :/
12:01:31freqmod_gqUsage: mkamsboot <firmware file> <boot file> <output file>
12:01:44Chestetado i have to put the <> in?
12:01:51freqmod_gqthen you have to do ./mkamsboot
12:01:56Chestetaif i dont then i did it correctly
12:01:58freqmod_gqand then the path to the firmware file
12:02:01freqmod_gqboot file
12:02:01Chestetai did ./mkamsboot
12:02:09freqmod_gqand where you want to put the output file
12:02:23Chestetain the directory mkamsboot is in
12:02:30freqmod_gqi.e. ./mkamsboot m300a.bin bootloader-clip.sansa patched.bin
12:02:30Chestetaor did i have to specify c:\...
12:02:48Chestetayes; thats the same format i used
12:02:52freqmod_gq(if the files m300a.bin and bootloader-clip.sansa is in the same directory)
12:03:12freqmod_gqthen patched.bin should appear
12:03:40Chestetayes; e200pa.bin is the normal e200 bootloader and bootloader-e200v2.sansa is the sansa bootloader
12:03:55Chestetait just jumps down to the next command line and does not process anything
12:04:07freqmod_gqbootloader-e200v2.sansa is the rockbox bootloader
12:04:24freqmod_gqbuilt from the rockbox source tree
12:04:58freqmod_gqi get as output
12:05:05gevaertsChesteta: what *exactly* did you type?
12:05:12Chestetalike i created a folder called "bootbuild" and ran ../tools/configure in it and then entered 56 for e200v2 and then b for bootloader
12:05:43freqmod_gqand then you moved the file to the mkamsboot directory?
12:06:18ChestetaMatt@X60 ~/rockbox/rbutil/mkamsboot
12:06:18Chesteta$ ./mkamsboot.exe e200pa.bin bootloader-e200v2.sansa boot.bin
12:06:18ChestetaMatt@X60 ~/rockbox/rbutil/mkamsboot
12:06:18DBUGSent KICK Chesteta to server
12:06:18Kick(#rockbox Chesteta :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@rockbox/bot/logbot
12:06:24freqmod_gqand you got the original firmware in there
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12:06:55Chestetadamn i tried to paste a few lines from cygwin and it kicked me for flooding
12:06:57freqmod_gqand you got e200pa.bin (original firmware there)
12:07:08freqmod_gqyes, you'll have to use a pastebin
12:07:12Chestetayes; i have e200pa.bin
12:08:47freqmod_gqthen i can't help you, except patching the file myself
12:08:54ChestetaI just updated it with a 'dir' command to show you whats in the folder
12:09:13Chestetayea idk whats wrong with it :/
12:09:31freqmod_gqwell boot.bin is there
12:09:48freqmod_gqtry the same command with boot2.bin and se if that appears
12:10:20*freqmod_gq have to go
12:10:32Chestetaits not giving any copyright
12:10:37freqmod_gqreal life (teater rehersal)
12:10:51Chestetaah good luck with your rehersal
12:11:02Chestetacould i just delete the mkamsboot folder and do a svn update
12:11:19Chestetato redownload the stuff incase something got corrupted or something?
12:11:24Chestetaidk what else to try
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12:18:22UnhelpfulChesteta: svn will know if files are modified.
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12:19:42Chestetaidk why it wont run mkamsboot hten
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12:20:48gevaertsChesteta: please use real words, as stated in the guidelines
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12:21:32ChestetaI aplogize, I will
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13:52:53amiconnHmm, charging detection seems to be borked on iPod Color
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14:08:43Zagordo we have the release schedule published somewhere?
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14:09:15B4gderI guess not
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14:17:38linuxstbZagor: I posted a proposed schedule to the mailing list, which I _think_ was agreed -
14:21:12Zagorlinuxstb: yeah, that's what I think most of us are considering the schedule to be. it just struck me that "outsiders" don't know this, and we don't say it anywhere.
14:21:39Zagorwell, not someplace easily found anyway :)
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14:26:32Casainhohello :-)
14:27:08Casainhowhat means "devcon" ?? - seems to me that is a developer encounter, no? what means "con" ?
14:27:28linuxstbZagor: I agree - maybe would be a good place (the "releases" link in the left menu) ?
14:27:32B4gderCasainho: short for conference
14:27:33gevaertsDepends. It's either "conference" or "confidence trickster"
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14:27:50B4gderCasainho: getting a bunch of crazy rockboxers together at the same place
14:27:57B4gderscary thing
14:28:22B4gdertowers get built
14:28:27B4gdercoke bottles get opened
14:28:35Casainhookok - thanks. I am writing a presentation about Rockbox and I will show 2 pictures of devcon
14:28:53Casainhowhy people drinks cocacola and eat fast food?
14:29:03Casainhowhy not wine or beer?
14:29:15B4gderI didn't say we drank it!
14:29:23Casainhoah, sorry - there is beer on some photos
14:29:25gevaertsWe *drink* beer, we *open* coke bottles
14:29:26LinusNwe generally spray the roof with it
14:29:57LinusNCasainho: hehe, yes, we had a coke accident last devcon
14:29:58*amiconn wonders whether Casainho is living in a room with really strong reverberation
14:31:11Casainhoamiconn: I didn't understand.
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14:31:41Casainhookok :-) −− I will show one picture of everyone looking at computers and other of everyone after eat piza and coke
14:32:04CasainhoI think this isa nice one ;-) −−
14:32:54Casainhoanother qestion
14:33:11Casainhodoes I need to use DMA for audio? −− I am rstart reading the code for audio....
14:33:27CasainhoI am not using DMA yet, not for LCD nor SD Card...
14:33:51kugelCasainho: grr, I'm not visible on this one :S
14:34:34B4gderCasainho: sorry, you need to pick one where kugel is visible! ;-P
14:35:47kugelhm, I'm about the only person in this room, which is not on the photo :(
14:36:20gevaertskugel: I don't seem to be on it either. You're not alone :)
14:36:45linuxstbCasainho: You don't _have_ to use DMA for audio, but if you can, you should (it frees the CPU)
14:36:56kugelI think you were next to me ;)
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14:38:17avissince usb support is not completed on rockbox and the e270, how would i get a development version on there, if i can't transfer over usb ?
14:38:43Casainholinuxstb: hmmm, nice to know. I don't have experience with DMA, I would prefer to first put my device work and after optimize the code...
14:38:43linuxstbUse the original Sandisk firmware.
14:39:26avisok ty
14:39:33linuxstbavis: If you turn your Sansa off, then attach USB, then turn it on, the original firmware should start.
14:39:48Casainhokugel: don't worry, here were I will talk, no one knows about you ;-)
14:40:10Casainhoeheh - but I am being looking at pictures a long time
14:40:20Casainhomaybe some day I will got to a devcon ;-)
14:40:24CasainhoI would like :-)
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14:40:27B4gderthose pictures make me think of devcon09
14:40:43kugellet it happen!
14:41:02Casainhowhta is the nick of "Björn Stenberg" ?
14:41:31B4gderCasainho: Zagor
14:41:38B4gderoh too slow
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14:42:22CasainhoZagor: nie to know that yu are a "bicycling computer freak" :-) −− I also use bicycle every day ;-)
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14:42:41avisi can boot the original firmware, but i'm not seeing a linux mount point :(
14:42:43*LambdaCalculus37 reminds Casainho about the topic
14:43:55CasainhoLambdaCalculus37: thanks - ifrst time I read: "Keep discussion Rockbox-related"
14:44:20Casainhobye bye :-)
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15:35:26kadobanprobably not too big of a deal, but the forum guidlines ( say that feature requests go on the tracker, which iiuc is no longer the case
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16:15:56kugelamiconn: this #ifdefs for the players statusbar all over the place is nasty, imo
16:16:43kugelI'm not surprised that it causes problems again and again
16:16:57amiconnWell, it isn't a real statusbar
16:18:07amiconnA proper solution will be the universal status display solution which I proposed a while ago. This will handle things like status icons, status leds etc
16:18:57amiconnIt will not only make things easier regarding charcell, but is also necessary for the numerous status leds on M3, and can handle the red led on disk-based archoses etc
16:20:11amiconnkugel: Part of the problem is that the player has some members in global_status which aren't actually used
16:21:09amiconnThis is because back in time the philosophy was to not ifdef away unused members. That changed later (today there are just too many members to have all of them on all targets, but wasn't fixed for the already existing ones
16:22:01amiconnActually it's probably not only the Player which has unused members in global_status, but the other targets too (the Player probably has more of those though)
16:23:09kugelI just notice that the player repeatedly causes trouble due to his "own way of statusbar"
16:25:47amiconnIf global_settings.statusbar would have been excluded properly, r19894 would have caused a red build, and hence it would have been noticed
16:27:18kugelnot much better if you ask me
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16:35:19FlynDicekugel: Hey I tried your latest lcd patch. It displays the menu now initially but it's skewed diagonally. If I let the backlight go off then when it comes back on the display is normal until I press another button.
16:35:38kugelFlynDice: I committed a fix
16:35:52FlynDicecoll I'l go get it
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16:35:58kugelFlynDice: zimba421 helped me, it should be good now
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16:38:35kadobanpixelma: I know that this is probably a long shot since it was a while ago, but do you happen to remember anything more about the bug with the goban overlay makefile (specifically it not seeming to rebuild the plugin after changes to the source)? I can't seem to reproduce it.
16:40:24n1samiconn: re: statusbar proposition, maybe it would be good to put things like that in the wiki or a mail to the ml for later reference, irc logs are not so good for that, especially if it's been discussed on several occasions
16:44:56jaykayBigBambi: around?
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16:52:43jaykayis there any difference in the manual between \dap, \dap\ and \dap{}? and which one should i prefer?
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17:01:42BigBambijaykay: Not really, I'm at work - I'll be home at after about 19.30 CET (GMT+1)
17:01:49BigBambigot to go
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17:03:39avisi was told that i could boot from original firmware on me e270 to get usb support on my sansa. when i boot to original firmware with usb plugged in, i dont get a mount point in linux however
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17:04:02rasheravis: does the OF show the "Connected" screen?
17:04:22avisyes it does
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17:04:29rasherCheck dmesg
17:04:57kugelFlynDice: is it cool now?
17:05:24FlynDiceyes works great
17:05:46FlynDicethe playback has improved also with the lcd work you've don
17:06:45linuxstbavis: Also, is the OF configured to use MSC (USB Mass Storage). It's one of its settings. Otherwise it will connect in MTP mode.
17:07:56avisthere it goes. MSC works. ty linuxstb :)
17:08:53avisis the current build the same as the development version ? ie −− it might have usb transfer mode enabled ?
17:09:08linuxstbYes, but no.
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17:18:28kugelFlynDice: really? how?
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17:22:07FlynDicekugel: well I can stay in the wps screen and listen for 1 thing, and it just works more dependably
17:22:30FlynDiceogg of course no mp3
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17:22:34kugelsounds like a good thing :)
17:22:43kugeleven though I didn't intend that :p
17:23:58FlynDicekugel: also I can get to more places now with music playing to see what breaks...
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17:26:37kugelFlynDice: and that wasn't possible at all pre-r20051?
17:27:42FlynDiceIt played but I would have to exit the wps screen or it would stop
17:30:14FlynDicemy best description(still vague I realise) is it's less finicky now. I can throw more at it before it gives up
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17:34:30jaykaysecond try: as there any difference in the manual between \dap, \dap\ and \dap{}, and should one of them be preferred?
17:35:44gevaerts\dap\ is not valid TeX
17:36:11*gevaerts suspects that there's something after these
17:36:37kadoban\dap and \dap{} are functionally the same i believe, as long as both are followed by a space. i think \dap{} is better style, maybe? (i suck at LaTeX, but that's my guess)
17:36:39n1sjaykay: \dap{} is preferred
17:36:57amiconnAfaik \dap\<space> is for protecting that space
17:37:06jaykaygevaerts: no, it also works
17:37:13jaykayn1s: thanks
17:37:22n1skadoban: iiuc they are not exactly the same as \dap\ escapes the space, what amiconn said
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17:37:48gevaertsjaykay: I very much doubt that. "\dap\ " is \dap followed by a hard space. "\dap\" doesn't mean anything
17:37:56kadobann1s: yeah, i didn't know about that one, just the other two. makes sense though
17:38:31jaykaygevaerts: i guess there are spaces after that... i dont see the difference
17:38:48n1sjaykay: you should check out the LatexGuidelines page in the wiki
17:38:49gevaertsThe second \ belongs to the space then
17:39:00n1sgevaerts: exactly
17:39:05jaykayso should i convert \dap and \dap\ to \dap{}
17:39:09jaykayor only \dap
17:39:24gevaertsDon't "convert
17:39:31amiconnOnly \dap is bad, because TeX then sometimes etas the space after it, iiuc
17:39:35n1sjaykay: \dap is fine if you don't want a space after it
17:39:37jaykayits not the right word, i know
17:40:16gevaertsjaykay: again, "\dap\" is not the construct. "\dap" is, possibly followed by "\ "
17:40:27n1sfor example "Don't eat your \dap." is fine
17:40:40gevaertsAlso good advice
17:40:48jaykaygevaerts: thanks for the thrid explanation :)
17:40:48kadobannow you tell me
17:40:53rasherIs there a reason to use "\dap\ "?
17:41:03rasherrather than "\dap{} "
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17:53:53jaykayi guess the "battery_bench writes data on every disk activity (or every hour)" is outdated, it does write data now every minute....
17:54:04jaykayor is there an exception?
17:54:50amiconnThe data is *written* to disk when there is disk activity. That has nothing to do with when a measurement is *taken*
17:55:56jaykayi i know... i meant "taken on every disk activity or every hour"-....
17:55:59amiconnWriting every minute would change the results a lot versus running without battery_bench on hdd based targets, and to a lesser degree also on flash based targets
17:56:26amiconnThe sentence says "...writes data on every disk activity..."
17:57:26rasherHow do I enter a backslash in LaTeX?
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17:57:46n1s\\ would be my first guess
17:57:59rasherMine too. Seems to be a linebreak
17:58:15n1syes, /me facepalms
17:58:36rasher\backslash it seems
17:58:44amiconnThe measurement cycle in turn was indeed simplified iirc. Now it measures every minute and stores that in a RAM buffer. It used to only keep measurements where the voltage actually changed
17:59:09amiconnThe latter was unnecessarily complex, and hard to maintain
17:59:40jaykayamiconn: so data is taken every minute and written on every disk activity or every hour?
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18:00:37rasherNot even that.. $\backslash$ works, but isn't that a bit dirty?
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18:01:37jaykayrasher: google says \textbackslash
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18:02:21rasherjaykay: \o/
18:04:15rasherNow < and > get replaced by ¬° ¬Ņ .. that seems a bit odd
18:04:40amiconnjaykay: Yes, in general. It may take in shorter intervals occasionally, if the thread receives a SYS_* event it doesn't need to handle
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18:05:24jaykaye.g. voice events like the battery-status... still a thing i dont like
18:06:47jaykaybasically rockbox should only do things it needs to do right?
18:07:12rasherFor the record, \textgreater{} and \textless{}
18:07:14jaykayimo those voice events should not be "sent" if voice is disabled...
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18:08:20jaykaybecause voice is disabled...
18:08:40gevaertsSo instead of checking in just one place, this check has to be done all over the place?
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18:09:37gevaertsIf everything that sends events has to check if there is at least one piece of code currently interested in them, the code will become a mess
18:10:49jaykayi guess there is no way of completely disabling voice while the runtime...
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18:11:54gevaertsWhat do you mean exactly by disabling?
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18:12:47jaykayso that nothing even attempts to send anything
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18:13:30*gevaerts still doesn't see why that would be desirable
18:14:35*domonoky thinks of this battery events as general powermanagement events. It just happens that voice is the only user (for now).
18:14:59domonokyso they shouldnt be disabled when voice is disabled.
18:15:19jaykayits not desirable... the problem is that i (and probably others) dont want that rockbox does something which does nothing.
18:15:25jaykaynot a big problem, though
18:15:26amiconnjaykay: Not only those, also events like charger plugged/pulled, remote plugged/pulled (on targets with lcd remote), memory card plugged/pulled (on targets with hotswap) etc etc
18:16:09jaykayamiconn: they may be required, in opposite to the voice events
18:16:15gevaertsjaykay: why do you even care?
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18:17:04jaykaygevaerts: why not? its also could help and helps me to understand rockboyx
18:17:35gevaertsjaykay: as I see it you want to increase complexity for this. You need a real reason for that
18:18:11domonokythe battery power saved by not sending a few events per battery runtime is probably so small, you cant even measure it. So you have much more complicated code for no gain..
18:18:31jaykaygevaerts: i dont know how the code would look like. i just asked whether theres a simple ways to disable voice events completely
18:18:43gevaertsjaykay: there is. Remove them from the code
18:19:12gevaertsAll other ways complicate things
18:19:12jaykayoh thanks. i think i already wrote that i mean "while runtime"
18:19:13amiconnThe extra code to check whether to send the event would probably even make up for the tinytiny amount of power saved in the receiver by not sending the event
18:19:46gevaerts"while runtime"?
18:19:52*gevaerts doesn't understand
18:19:54amiconnAnd all code that uses a public queue needs to be aware of occasional SYS_ events anyway
18:20:00rasher err...
18:20:04jaykaygevaerts: while rockbox is running
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18:21:25gevaertsjaykay: you could add "if(voice_enabled)" to dozens of places, but as we've been saying the gain from that is very near zero, while it adds real complexity
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18:22:34jaykaygevaerts: i also wrote "disabling completely". with that i meant that its not necessary to even check anything...
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18:22:50gevaertsOK. So you mean "make the code magically disappear"
18:23:08jaykayi only needed a "no, there is no way to do this", nothing more
18:24:21gevaertsjaykay: if you ask questions where what you actually mean is so obvious, don't be surprised if people interpret it in another way
18:24:47*gevaerts phrased that wrong
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18:37:56rasherSome LaTeX magician might want to have a look at the fact that the \wikilink macro doesn't respect page margins
18:38:00rasher(in PDF)
18:38:14rasherSee for example page 14 of the e200 manual
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18:43:45kadobanpixelma: that's odd, i tried the same thing and it seemed to work fine. i'll mess with it some more. do you think you could test the patch for me again by the way? i put up a new one at FS #9901, it should help me figure out why that one test is failing.
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18:43:55kadoban(re other channel)
18:48:07pixelmayes, I could do that
18:48:45kadobanyay \o/. you only need the new patch, and to extract the .zip file again (don't need the "turn on testing" patch)
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18:49:53pixelmaok, no turning on. I'm building on cygwin in case that matters
18:50:24kadobanhmm, it could be. i'll give that a shot later, i don't have a windows machine right here
18:50:41pixelmaI should try once more...
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18:50:47kugeldomonoky: hey
18:51:38kadobani can't test on the actual target of course, so it's possible something really exotic is going on...but it /seems/ like it's rebuilding it fine
18:51:45rasherpixelma: \opt{albumart} is appropriate for the wps, right?
18:52:24SoapAirportLlorean: regarding the poll created in the USB test build thread... I was thinking perhaps such "urgent calls for testers" would be served by a pop-up in the forums when everybody first logs on. The pop up could say "Hey, we have a really complicated new feature we're trying to introduce, we need all the help testing we can get, please see thread so-and-so."
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18:52:51rasherSoapAirport: It's not *that* urgent, really
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18:53:15pixelmarasher: yes, should do as long as the option is there in features.txt
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18:53:26rasherSoapAirport: also, once you have time, please install mingw32 on your server :)
18:53:28pixelmaor better the "feature" then
18:54:13SoapAirportrasher: "not urgent" as in not time critical or no need for 100 testers? My suspicion is a vast majority of people never visit the Unsupported Builds thread, and of those who do the majority only visits occasionaly.
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18:54:27rasherpixelma: Can you chain opts? Like \opt{swcodec}{\opt{tagcache}{ somethinghere }}?
18:54:39SoapAirportrasher: it will be 8 hours before I can ssh in.
18:54:56SoapAirportno, wait, I have my N810, duh.
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18:54:59rasherSoapAirport: no hurry - the builds have been broken for nearly 2 months now, I'll survive another 8 hours :)
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18:56:02pixelmarasher: yes, opts can be nested (I'd understand chaining a bit differently more like \opt{albumart,tagcache,etc})
18:56:02amiconnrasher: Nesting like this should work
18:56:08bertrikAFAIK the SYS_BATTERY_UPDATE is only used for voice, and it is only sent from one place
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18:56:37pixelmabut \opt{blah}{\opt{bleh}{something}} is also possible
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18:56:54bertrikthat place is in firmware/powermgmt.c so that would probably not be a good place to check for voice support though
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18:57:51SoapAirportrasher: "ming2w2 is already the newest version"
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18:58:37rasherSoapAirport: oh.. err.. ignore me
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19:00:00pixelmathe albumart "feature" was only introduced for displaying the albumart size of the currently loaded WPS in the Rockbox Info screen. Something I though could go now that resize is in...
19:00:11pixelmathought too
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19:00:54amiconnIsn't that also used to check whether to build albumart support in general?
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19:01:09amiconnOr do you mean in features.txt only?
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19:01:51pixelmain features.txt for the lang strings
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19:02:03*rasher wonders if he should put up his album art manual patch or just commit it
19:02:16pixelma(which is reused for the manual)
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19:04:42pixelmadidn't you put it up on flyspray already?
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19:05:40rasherI've fixed the issues I noted and added some more things
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19:07:22rasherFS #9928
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19:08:25jhMikeSamiconn: Yeah, quite a bit of RAM hiding there. Some other targets probably could use that tweak. As far as long calls, I'm not sure any solution would be "nice". What are the options except to force it one way or the other in specific instances depending on the default?
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19:14:27jhMikeSamiconn: the only other option for longcalls that I had was to have memory map for code so its close enough to IRAM for short calls to work
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19:20:29kugeldomonoky: I put my unification patch to
19:21:36pixelmarasher: looks good. I'm only wondering if it would be better to use "lcd_non-mono" instead of the "albumart" feature in case that one goes. And are there swcodec players which don't have "tagcache", the nesting might not be necessary but of course it's the more correct solution...
19:22:06bertrikcan't we specifically mark code in IRAM as requiring long-calls and so we can use normal calls for the rest?
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19:22:48rasherpixelma: I think mirroring apps/plugins/SOURCES is smartest.. don't know about the albumart feature.. seems like a reasonable thing to keep
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19:26:21pixelmayeah, just throwing out some thoughts (as in not very important ones). I agree about mirroring SOURCES and the "albumart" one also doesn't hurt if we keep an eye on the manuals
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19:28:14rasherDoes the albumart define not decide whether or not to build albumart support?
19:28:27rasherIf not, it probably should be extended to do that, rather than removed
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19:30:13pixelmano, HAVE_ALBUMART does this - "albumart" as a feature for the langs is only used if this is defined
19:30:48pixelmaand only for the LANG_ALBUMART string
19:31:30pixelmawhich isn't needed anymore in my eyes
19:31:48rasherAh, right.. and we can't check for HAVE_ALBUMART in the manual?
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19:32:38pixelmanot that I know of
19:32:42rasherStill, I think keeping the feature around makes sense, even if LANG_ALBUMART is removed and the manual is the only user
19:33:34rasherI admit I don't know how manual building works, but was it considered to pass it through CPP?
19:34:11*pixelma wonders whether there will ever be albumart display in the WPS on monochrome screens ;)
19:34:14pixelmaoh well
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19:35:08pixelmarasher: I don't know, my idea only was to reuse the features.txt and n1s implemented it :)
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19:36:22*rasher commits
19:36:36rasherMaybe not
19:37:33pixelmaamiconn: your bookmark delete combo patch reminds me of the mess in the Gigabeat F/X keymap for this action...
19:37:47pixelmasomeone with a Gigabeat should look into it
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19:38:20pixelmarasher: why not?
19:38:37rasherMy pictureflow.tex was out of date. Fixed now
19:41:33rasherpixelma: How much album art stuff do you think should be left in the wiki? I think pretty much only the different programs to gather AA, which is pretty much all that's not in the manual now (I guess an example would be a good idea).
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19:44:28pixelmabtw. I'm a bit undecided (and someone already started excluding some WPS tag explanation from the Player manual) but I once thought it would be better to not exclude some but add a mark for something that wouldn't work on the target the manual is for. Reasoning for this is e.g. the M:Robe100 - you can use colour or greyscale 160x128 WPSs with it as long as those don't use the %X backdrop tag or albumart
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19:45:12pixelmaso I thought it would be nice if one could read it up there. For the Player it's unlikely though that someone wants to reuse another WPS this way
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19:54:38FlynDiceIs there a quick svn command line I can use to revert my whole directory to 20060(yes I'm reading the svn docs but it isn't working for me, thanks)
19:55:55linuxstbWhat isn't working? i.e. what did you try?
19:56:32FlynDicesvn checkout -r 20060 rockbox among others...
19:56:52linuxstbDid you try svn update -r 20060 ?
19:57:15FlynDiceI thought I tried that first but I'll try again
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19:57:50damadahi, does Rockbox support RDS for FM station naming and autofrequency?
19:58:11bertrikok, I tried declaring stuff that went into icode with #pragma long_calls. This includes memcpy, memset, memmove. For most normal code this can be workable, except gcc also produces memset or memcpy for certain language constructs, like a memset for a string initialisation.
19:58:28linuxstbdamada: No. But some work has started on it for the Gigabeat S (the only device with an RDS-capable tuner IIUC
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19:59:13damadalinuxstb: do you have a link to that device or manufacturer?
19:59:46linuxstbdamada: It was made by Toshiba. It's not easy to find, but they appear on ebay...
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20:00:24damadaOK, thanks linuxstb, will do further googling
20:00:58linuxstbBut the Gigabeat S isn't quite at "supported" status in Rockbox yet - once installed, it works well, but the installation method and documentation isn't ready.
20:01:35kugelFlynDice: does 20060 not work?
20:03:28FlynDicekugel: I was trying to test out your unifying patch and reverting to 20060 and am trying to get patch not to yell at me...
20:04:08kugelFlynDice: you need r20063 at least
20:04:36kugelwell, my tree is at r20060, except for the lcd fix, so it's basically at 20063
20:04:41FlynDiceok I'll try that , your patch says 20060 though
20:05:14kugelI'll upload a proper one
20:07:48kugelFlynDice: thanks for testing that. Please give some comments on the scrollwheel, I changed how it works
20:08:43rasherpixelma: no viewports in the manual?
20:08:54 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner]")
20:09:08kadobanhmm, just noticed: the copyright notice on page 2 of the manual says 2003-2008
20:09:17pixelmakadoban: the new goban test worked flawlessly
20:09:26pixelmaon my Ondio
20:09:46kadobanpixelma: oh, great. thanks a lot. i'm still not sure why that one test /sometimes/ fails, but at least i'm pretty sure it's not related to the overlay
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20:12:23amiconnbertrik: Just marking code in IRAM for long calls is wrong in two ways. (1) It causes IRAM-to-IRAM calls to be longcalls for no reason. (2) It breaks IRAM-to-SDRAM calls
20:12:44amiconnIt's the ram pairing that counts, not just the placement of the caller or callee
20:14:24bertrikok, but the disadvantage of (1) could be outweighed by short calls in the rest of the code. I don't quite see how (2) IRAM-to-SDRAM calls get broken
20:14:29amiconnlinuxstb: Iiuc the archos fm recorder also has an rds capable radio chip, but for some reason it doesn't work as it should
20:17:43FlynDicekugel: patch keeps coughing on button-e200v2.c could you take a look
20:18:07FlynDiceI'm on 20067
20:18:39FlynDicechanged at 20063
20:20:01bertrikthe S1A0903X01 has AM in addition to FM, but no RDS as far as I can see in the datasheet. IIRC, the zune has an RDS capable chip and the Samsung YP-U3 has one, but neither is a rockbox target
20:21:57bertrikBTW, there may be a very small chance that some of the radio chips used in rockbox targets are RDS capable. AFAIK, several of the non-RDS FM chips used in rockbox have a register compatible version that does support RDS
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20:28:42gartralhello, i found a very small bug with the logo.rock, it has a 1/50 chance of starting with no movement, this doesn't affect anything, just odd
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20:46:31jaykayjhMikeS: around?
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20:50:04kadobanis there anyone who might be willing to help me test FS #9901 on an archos recorder? it's an overlay to make the goban plugin work on archos devices (already tested on ondio). i can put together a build for it if necessary
20:51:33*LambdaCalculus37 raises his hand
20:51:43LambdaCalculus37Can you build for me?
20:52:02kadobanLambdaCalculus37: yeah, no problem. which version do you have?
20:52:03gartrali would if i owned an archos...
20:52:41LambdaCalculus37kadoban: Archos JBRv1.
20:54:40kadobanthat's 2MB, right? (i don't know recorders well)
20:56:12scorche|shkadoban: except for modded devices, all of the archos devces we support have 2MB of RAM
20:56:22kadobanahh, i see
20:56:35kadobanhmm, one second...i think my build failed (sigh)
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21:03:13kadobanLambdaCalculus37: okay, i think that worked. is the build, please also extract to the root of your device, and then run the goban plugin, which will run an automated test. the final splash message is the important part (it should be either "All tests passed", or an error message mentioning a line number). no hurry, i'll be on for a
21:03:14kadobancouple of hours at least
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21:15:33bluebrotherLambdaCalculus37: did you have a chance to try the updated rbutil binary?
21:17:47LambdaCalculus37bluebrother: No, not yet.
21:17:57LambdaCalculus37I'll try it tonight.
21:18:12LambdaCalculus37kadoban: All tests passed here.
21:18:41kadobanLambdaCalculus37: excellent, thank you so much
21:19:04bluebrotherLambdaCalculus37: great, tia :)
21:20:21LambdaCalculus37bluebrother: Real quick... is there a link in the logs, or can you supply me with a link?
21:20:42bluebrotherthere is a link in the logs. Gimme a sec, I'll look it up
21:22:38*bluebrother wonders why some files in docs/ are utf-8 and others not
21:22:48LambdaCalculus37bluebrother: Many thanks; I'll give it a kick around tonight.
21:23:47amiconnkadoban: I am trying to implement an easier way to make overlays
21:23:49rasherbluebrother: Hysterical raisins, I'd guess
21:24:43amiconnThey will use (needs to be extended a little bit), and automagically allocate the necessary amount of ram
21:25:11kadobanamiconn: ahh, that might be kind of nice. i didn't really understand most of what i was doing when making that overlay, thankfully i had your examples to copy from
21:25:12amiconnShould make things easier also in case other lowmem targets (ams sansas....) want to use overlays
21:26:17amiconnkadoban: The files basically work the same way as, just that the memory is located *before* the normal plugin ram, and can be adjusted in size
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21:26:52kadobanah okay, that's kind of what i figured
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21:27:44amiconnIdeally it should reserve exactly the amount of memory that's needed to put it there. Using more is a waste, in case the overlaid plugin needs further memory from the audio buffer
21:27:51amiconn(happens e.g. in case of rockboy)
21:28:12kadobanyeah, mine is using the rest of the audio buffer too
21:28:41amiconnBut since the size will vary a bit with target, little changes in the plugin etc is not possible to reserve the exact amount the manual way (you need to have some headroom)
21:28:51kadobani think/hope i did that part right, but i think the tests should have caught it if i didn't
21:28:54amiconnThe automatic way would take care of this
21:30:12amiconnMy idea is to link the the start of DRAM first (discarding the .bin - I'm only interested in the .map) The map will be analysed by a script, which then sets the highest possible start address for the second, real liniking stage
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21:34:11jaykaycan i arouse some interest of a dev for
21:34:15jaykaywell i cant, ok
21:34:27jaykaythe question is whether someone can commit it :)
21:34:38jaykay(or say a reason why not and close it)
21:35:10*rasher defers all german language stuff to pixelma
21:35:44*BigBambi thinks not touching languages you don't speak is a sound plan
21:36:16rasherWell, normally I just assume translators do a proper job, but not for languages where there are native-speaking committers
21:36:22rasherWho are interested in handling them..
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21:36:45BigBambirasher: wELL QUITE
21:36:54BigBambier, woops
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21:38:29jaykayin this patch there are not so much new translations.... some numbers, "credits" translated with "credits" and so on
21:38:39jaykayand the biggest part is "code police"
21:39:00jaykayerr, police?
21:39:36jaykayok, forget it :)
21:40:09jaykaywhois /pixelma
21:40:10rasherI don't think there's any sense in doing the code police thing
21:40:16jaykaythat worked well
21:40:26jhMikeSjaykay: here
21:40:29jaykayrasher: thats all fro your homepage
21:40:50rasherI know, but I think it only makes sense for translators who edit the file manually
21:41:17jaykayjhmikes: i did the benches with your first patch again, now your patch does give 4 minutes less :)
21:41:19rasherSo if a translator wants to do it, great, but doing it for all languages will just be noise
21:41:29jaykayshould i make new benches with the commit?
21:41:50jaykayrasher: why?
21:42:10rasherjaykay: Because there's not really anything gained
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21:43:48jhMikeSjaykay: nah, thanks for doing what you've done already. 4 minutes? I think that means it just really isn't much of a factor for the battery while definitely measurable for CPU cycles.
21:46:05jaykayrasher: the lang files look nicer, some deprecated parts are cleaned up and i think this is not an arguement as there are too many code police commits...
21:46:21jaykayjhmikes: ok
21:47:09jaykayjhmikes: dma is direct memory access right? and the "only" purpose of this patch is to free cpu cycles?
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21:49:07jhMikeSjaykay: Yes it is. The purpose was to get whatever could be gotten from it.
21:49:16jaykayok :)
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21:51:18jhMikeS1-2% of cycles saved may impact a HD player more if buffering finishes a bit sooner than it otherwise would. Another thing is having a greater FIFO margin.
21:52:41*jaykay of course doesnt know what fifo margin is...
21:52:51jaykaydoesnt matter, it sounds good?
21:52:57jaykaywithout ?
21:54:03jhMikeSgreater margins on things=better (+ adapting to some upcoming PP word in FS)
21:54:45rasherjaykay: Well, those are my reasons for not committing it. Maybe some other dev will
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21:55:57jaykayjhmikes: if battery benches could be helpful then... and so on, you know what i mean :)
21:56:28jaykayrasher: ok.... i guess it will become (or already became) another rottening patch in fs....
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22:03:35BigBambijaykay: Whilst not passing comment on this patch at all, having lots of patches "rotting" on flyspray is no reason to commit ones that shouldn't be
22:04:23 Quit Beta2K_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:04:35rasherThe tagmap macro in the manual doesn't cope well with large wps tag descriptions :\
22:04:55jaykayBigBambi: i didnt understand that, sorry
22:06:04jaykaybigbambi: i did now :) true
22:06:41jaykaybigbambi: but if they "shouldnt be" committed, they can be closed...
22:06:55BigBambijaykay: yes
22:07:08rasherjaykay: your patch has translation which should probably be committed
22:07:43pixelmajaykay: not sure about but I think I would only commit the changes to deutsch.lang - some are good, some are nice to have (cleanup) but there are also some I cannot understand (e.g. removing the hyphen in Sprung-Scroll-Verzögerung and some I'm not sure about - e.g. the mp3-frames one and the "line in" one, I like "Symbole" though
22:08:07pixelmaor why remove "Festplatte" for HD targets?
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22:09:08pixelmasome of these things are a matter of taste too though
22:09:20*jaykay looks in his patch again
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22:10:57pixelma"24 Stunden Uhr" - meh Deppenleerzeichen (I see it was there before, not your fault just a general complaint)
22:11:39jaykaypixelma: the hyphen- i doont know why i removed it, ill remove that part
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22:12:09jaykaymp3-frames: "rahmen" is wrong anyway, "frames" at least could be right
22:12:25pixelmaI've heard both
22:12:35jaykayfestplatte: that was also changed in the english file, its just "syncing"
22:12:55jaykayand ill remove the deppenleerzeichen :)
22:14:38bluebrotherpixelma: why not "MP3 Rahmen" (haven't checked the patch)?
22:14:45jaykayi also cant remeber why i changed "audioeingang" to "line in"... i think ill remove that too
22:15:00bluebrothera picture frame is a Bilderrahmen ...
22:15:18pixelmabluebrother: this is the way it is now with hyphen - he made it MP3-Frames
22:15:23rasherpixelma: Am I right that there's now way to detect greyscale targets? \nopt{lcd_color}{\opt{lcd_non-mono}{ foo }} is the best I can come up with
22:15:27jaykaybluebrother: wtf should a "mp3-rahmen" be?
22:16:12*rasher thinks people should be less afraid of using native terms.. it means something else in English as well
22:16:12bluebrotherjaykay: simple: it's a frame (Rahmen) that encapsulates a block of data (similar to the picture). Rahmen makes perfect sense for me here.
22:16:47amiconnWell, MP3-Rahmen is debatable, actually. It's a proper translation, but those (few) people who know what an mp3 frame is might have to think a few times before they understand it
22:17:26bluebrotherin fact, Symbol makes no sense here IMO. I agree it's debatable to translate such terms though.
22:18:37BigBambiamiconn: that is true in English too though
22:18:47pixelmaI could understand Symbol instead of Denglish "Icon"
22:18:52jaykaybluebrother: symbol is a valid translation for icon.... why is it wrong?
22:19:01BigBambiamiconn: If I don't know what an mp3 frame is it seems odd to have the two words together
22:19:03amiconnIn general I am in favour of proper German terms. It also makes it easier for tts
22:19:19bluebrotherjaykay: I was referring to MP3-Symbol. Maybe I got that mixed up ;-)
22:19:37jaykaybluebrother: yes, the symbol is somewhere else :)
22:19:38bluebrotherSymbol for icon is ok imo −− though one could consider Piktogramm too
22:20:03pixelmaPiktogramm is too long for my taste
22:20:26pixelmawhile Symbol still exists and would be understandable
22:20:35*jaykay agrees
22:20:57jaykaypixelma: is "24-Stunden-Uhr" better?
22:21:03jaykayit looks weird
22:21:24amiconnShould be 24-Stunden-Anzeige
22:21:33amiconn(but that's still longer)
22:21:34pixelmato my eyes it looks be better :)
22:23:10 Quit GodEater (Remote closed the connection)
22:24:26amiconnOr perhaps just "12 Stunden" and "24 Stunden", as the setting is already called "Zeitformat"
22:24:48bluebrothersounds reasonable
22:25:11pixelmalike it
22:25:40jaykaypixelma: updated patch... would you also prefer "12 Stunden" and "24 Stunden"?
22:28:10*rasher struggles with adding viewports to the manual
22:29:16rasher%V|x|y|[width]|[height]|[font]|[fg]|[bg]| makes the tagmap table a bit awful
22:29:44rasherWould using w and h be too much shorthand?
22:30:10jhMikeSamiconn: I guess I'll make an attempt at putting the .text section within 32MB of IRAM and see what the 0x3xxxxxxx's since I don't think anything is there.
22:31:18jaykayupdated it again, changed the "24-stunden"-thing.... if anyone is still interested :)
22:31:20amiconnjhMikeS: I think that's impossible.
22:31:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:31:47amiconnIt's definitely impossible for the ipod video with 64MB RAM
22:32:37amiconnI was thinking along the lines of handling every individual caller-callee pair
22:32:43pixelmarasher: I remember now that I didn't answer your question, I wouldn't know a different way ATM
22:32:48amiconnPerhaps there is a way to automate this stuff
22:33:05jhMikeSIt's really for the core code since plugins and codecs have to call through pointers anyway. I'm don't think 100% of RAM has to be available this way and do you expect the binary to grow that large?
22:33:42rasherpixelma: It's not too bad, really, just didn't want to use it if there was some other, more obvoius way
22:33:56amiconnNo, the binary won't grow that large. But plugins and codecs can have own iram sections for which they don't have to go through the core
22:34:22amiconnAnd especially codecs would profit from a performance increase due to short calls
22:34:27amiconn(I think)
22:34:38pixelmarasher: what do you need it for (is it about the "colour" parameters in viewports)?
22:35:24rasherpixelma: It is
22:36:31rasherThis works, as far as I can tell
22:36:57rasherDo we have greyscale targets with more than 4 shades?
22:37:17amiconnATm we don't
22:37:30amiconn(There once was one in development....)
22:37:36pixelmaas I said earlier, I think it would be nice if all variants were explained and only some mark would be added if this or that isn't possible on the target the manual is for (especially thinking of the 3 bersions of 160x128 WPS and in case someone wants to fix e.g. a colour WPS for his greyscale target)
22:38:22rasherBut then you could check the manual for the other target
22:39:05*rasher thinks it would be weird to put information about tags that won't work on a target in that target's manual
22:39:07jhMikeSsince there are seven mappers it might not be impossible if it can be stuffed into say, a 16MB section
22:40:41amiconnHow would you do that without splitting sdram? (is that even possible?)
22:41:03amiconnAfaik iram can't be remapped, otherwise it would be quite a bit easier I think
22:41:11rasherpixelma: I see your point, and I don't completely disagree, but for now, I'm going to use the "current" style of splitting it into stuff that works on each target
22:41:36jhMikeSfor targets using the ARM MMU, alot is doable, for PP section mappings have precedence
22:42:27amiconnYeah, but then the MMU targets don't use IRAM for code afaik
22:42:31jhMikeSI'm not moving IRAM, just wanting to move ram (for code only) near IRAM. any constant pools and such will go with it.
22:42:32pixelmarasher: then you have to go through and have to exclude some more things. I thought it would be nice to see things you could encounter when looking at other peoples WPSs and could understand them without having to look up in some other manual (especially if you don't know which, e.g. the virtual LED tag isn't as obvious as "hey that's some colour specific thing let's look it up in a manual of a colour target")
22:43:07jhMikeSamiconn: as3525 doesnt? I thought codecs were in IRAM entirely or you mean within the binary?
22:43:24amiconnWithin the binary
22:43:56pixelmarasher: the "current" style isn't (or at least wasn't) very consistent but I admit not having looked at it for a while
22:43:58amiconnIiuc the main binary is in SDRAM and codecs are in IRAM, meaning neither needs longcalls, as both have to go through api/pointers
22:44:14jhMikeSI guess there's no reason to build the bins for those using long-calls either
22:44:45amiconnIt's a quick test. If you don't get "relocation truncated to fit..." it should work
22:45:04amiconnI'm not sure about plugins though
22:45:10 Part gartral
22:45:51rasherpixelma: It just seems weird to me that the entire manual is very target-specific, and then suddenly the WPS section lists all sorts of stuff that you can't use on that target
22:47:31pixelmawell WPS are interchangeable to some degree
22:47:31rasherI always imagined the manual as "Documenting Rockbox as used on target x"
22:48:18pixelmaother things are not
22:48:30*jaykay agrees with rasher, although his vote doesnt count
22:49:23 Join lamed [0] (n=55fa409e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:49:36lamedhello everyone
22:51:31rasherYes, hello.
22:51:58lamedI'm about to use an h340 as a generator (to check a pair of headphones I own). I'm using goldwave to create a sine 1000 hz signal, and I should play it at 100db from the music player. does anyone knows what's the maximum volume on the h3x0? I have to attenuate from that to 100db, that is if i'm right about the whole thing...
22:53:09lamedand also if anyone can prove/disprove my theory i'd like that :)
22:55:54BigBambio db
22:55:58BigBambier, 0 db
22:56:21lamedthat is, on the headphone's or line out jack?
23:00:16lamedah. but I'm about to check if the headphone's impedance fits the manufacturer's declaration (I think they're fake), so should I be using the headphone's jack then?
23:01:48BigBambiDon't know I'm afraid
23:03:10BigBambior perhaps don't know, I'm afraid :P
23:04:28 Quit petur (Remote closed the connection)
23:04:29lamedbut you are sure that the maximum volume is indeed 100db?
23:08:31 Quit jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
23:08:49 Join Zoxc- [0] (
23:15:24*domonoky wonders why lamed doesnt just measure the impedance with a multimeter. :-)
23:18:22 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
23:19:17 Quit Zoxc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:22:17 Join gartral [0] (
23:22:53 Quit avis (Remote closed the connection)
23:24:06lamedbigbambi: 10x for the info, gday everyone
23:24:10 Quit lamed ("CGI:IRC")
23:28:03gartralbuild 20066 doesnt play Ogg files very well, it chops in and out repeatedly, and skips the file after halfway through, and while the dap is buffering, it is completly unresponsive, though, it has not crashed yet
23:29:59rashergartral: On which target?
23:30:19gartralohh, sorry, e250 v1
23:31:26rashergevaerts: does this happen for all oggs? With standard settings?
23:31:44rashergartral: does this happen for all oggs? With standard settings?
23:31:44gevaertsrasher: just a minute. I'll ask gartral
23:31:56 Quit ender` (" I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing sound they make as they go flying by. -- Douglas Adams")
23:31:59gartrallol, yes, as far as i can tell
23:32:09rashergartral: Does this happen with r20060?
23:32:37rasherAnd r20051?
23:32:50linuxstbgartral: Both speex and vorbis?
23:33:04rasherI'm assuming jhMikeS's two commits are most likely to be the cause for such behaviour..
23:33:05gartrali only found one really baddly encoded album that didnt skip, hold o, ill go find those builds, i just upped from 20044
23:33:21gartrali dont have any speex based files, nor is voice enables
23:37:41 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
23:40:13rasherHuh, this \opt I have here seems to be acting opposite of what it should
23:44:02 Part gartral
23:44:25pixelmawhich opt?
23:45:13 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
23:46:54rasher\opt{lcd_non-mono} ... it's inside an \example{} if that matters...
23:47:06rasherthis exact same opt works as I expect in other places..
23:49:15pixelmaif I remember correctly \example will output the enclosed text as verbatim, but am not 100% sure of. Bluebrother would know better but he just left
23:49:38 Quit Zagor ("Clint excited")
23:49:52rasherpixelma: it doesn't actually output the opt... it just does the opposite of what I expect.. if I change it to nopt the text is output.
23:50:20*rasher experiments
23:51:30pixelmaat least I remember having some trouble with \example too - it didn't like my exclamation mark I wanted to get out of it even though it worked in other places - and even the usual escaping didn't work
23:52:33rasherIt's quite definitely inverting my opt... \opt{lcd_non-mono}{yes}\nopt{lcd_non-mono}{no} produces yes outside the example, but no inside it.
23:53:36rasherI wonder if the same is true for other features
23:53:46rasherIt... isn't.
23:54:02rasherNow I suspect either the _ or the -
23:54:29pixelmayeah, thought the same now (together with my story)
23:56:02rasherIt's the "-". I'll just put the opt outside the \example.. but this is probably something to look into
23:57:55rasherAnd it probably wasn't inverting so much as always giving the same value
23:58:44pixelmaI found a comment in preamble.tex: % Note: when using the example environment you need to use optv instead of opt!

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