| 00:00:46 | BigBambi | Bagder: linux I assume:) |
| 00:01:15 | Bagder | and this is with a gcc built with rockboxdev.sh ? |
| 00:01:24 | linuxstb | Cygwin I believe. |
| 00:01:47 | Bagder | yes, that'd explain the "fun" /opt/arm |
| 00:02:02 | BigBambi | Bagder: Sorry, I was being facetious - you accidently nick completed Chanserv :) |
| 00:02:09 | Bagder | uh |
| 00:02:15 | * | Bagder didn't even notice! ;-) |
| 00:02:18 | Chesteta | badger were you talking to me? lol |
| 00:02:19 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:02:31 | Bagder | me tired? nooo |
| 00:02:54 | Chesteta | ah sorry about the lol; I know the rules... :/ |
| 00:04:19 | Unhelpful | hrm, another complication with the linked list version, and centering cache coverage, would be the fact that right now, slides that haven't been loaded into the cache aren't *part* of the linked list |
| 00:04:22 | Bagder | I find it a bit silly that the ar command line sends errors to /dev/null |
| 00:04:35 | Chesteta | anyways; were you asking me what i compiled on? I am running windows 7 beta 7000, also I am using Cygwin; reinstalled (to try and fix my problem) 2-3 nights ago so everything in cygwin should be up to date... |
| 00:04:42 | Bagder | on lin 1365 in that pastebin |
| 00:04:42 | | Quit bertrik ("Leaving") |
| 00:04:51 | rasher | Bagder: that seems silly, yes |
| 00:05:01 | Bagder | I would assume it would reveal something otherwise |
| 00:05:41 | rasher | You'd hope so |
| 00:06:13 | Unhelpful | i guess the "center" pointer would then point to the LL element closest to the actual center index? |
| 00:07:15 | | Quit Kevets () |
| 00:07:33 | Bagder | Chesteta: does the problem happen on the same file when you re-run make? |
| 00:07:55 | Chesteta | yes |
| 00:08:22 | Bagder | then edit out the ">/dev/null 2>&1" from line 18 in apps/codecs/libdemac/libdemac.make |
| 00:08:49 | Bagder | and run make again |
| 00:08:53 | Chesteta | ok |
| 00:09:09 | Bagder | hopefully that ar command that fails there will say something more |
| 00:10:19 | Chesteta | well if i run make agian (just a 'normal' "make" ) I get a bit more info however I dont know if its included in the initial output |
| 00:11:01 | Chesteta | http://pastebin.ca/1344446 |
| 00:13:03 | Bagder | well, that's not the same failure ... |
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| 00:13:12 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 00:13:17 | rasher | try make clean, then make V=1 again |
| 00:13:19 | | Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 00:13:30 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 00:13:37 | Chesteta | i notice that my libdemac is in \apps\codecs\demac\libdemac\... |
| 00:13:42 | Bagder | right, that probably happens because of the first failure |
| 00:14:20 | Bagder | Chesteta: right, I told you a slightly wrong path |
| 00:14:42 | Chesteta | ok no problem; i thought it may be the cause of the error or something |
| 00:19:27 | Chesteta | i removed line 18 and its compiling now :) |
| 00:19:49 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 00:19:59 | rasher | Why did you remove the line? |
| 00:20:17 | Bagder | it'll fail to make the ape codec surely |
| 00:20:55 | Chesteta | ah damn; misread |
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| 00:29:09 | | Quit Davide-NYC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:32:44 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 00:33:27 | | Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting") |
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| 00:36:13 | Chesteta | ok; got it http://pastebin.ca/1344469 |
| 00:36:22 | * | linuxstb commits his work-in-progress beastpatcher for WIndows, and hopes a Windows dev takes up the invitation to clean it up... |
| 00:36:44 | Llorean | So it looks like we'll have USB and the Gigabeat S for 3.2? |
| 00:37:00 | Llorean | Though it sounds like charging via USB may need some fixing on the iPods similar to the Sansas |
| 00:42:44 | Chesteta | note: i had fixed the libdemac.make (and only deleted the part i was instructed to) |
| 00:43:57 | rasher | Chesteta: But now it's giving an error in another place, which also hides the error message from us :\ |
| 00:44:29 | rasher | Chesteta: humour me and try disabling any virus protection you have enabled? Then run make clean and make again? |
| 00:44:47 | Chesteta | dont have any virus protection enabled... |
| 00:44:52 | rasher | Ah, damn |
| 00:44:57 | rasher | I remember something about cygwin acting strange occasionally when virus protection was enabled |
| 00:45:05 | Chesteta | i could try turning all the UAC stuff in windows off... |
| 00:45:26 | gartral | im not sure if this just my DAP or if its documented, but the solitaire game's playback menu is not consistent with the WPS playback options: most notable, it doesnt fade-in/out on pause stop or skip, and it doesnt resume playback if your audio was stopped... |
| 00:45:26 | Chesteta | in windows 7 its not as bad (obtrusive) so i still have it on |
| 00:46:05 | rasher | Chesteta: I don't know if that's likely to do anything. |
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| 00:46:36 | Chesteta | yeah, i figured that... just throwing out ideas |
| 00:47:05 | Chesteta | and the wierdest part is that it compiles correctly the first time I set it up |
| 00:47:16 | Chesteta | this only happens after doing an "svn update" |
| 00:47:29 | rasher | Chesteta: try removing ">/dev/null 2>&1" from line 18 apps/codecs/lib/libcodec.make |
| 00:47:37 | rasher | line 17 |
| 00:47:38 | | Quit CaptainKewl ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 00:47:40 | Chesteta | ok |
| 00:48:17 | rasher | seems like ar fails randomly, but many places hide the errors, so we don't know what happened |
| 00:48:27 | Chesteta | oh ic |
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| 00:49:01 | rasher | I guess we might haave to do this a number of times before we hit an actual error message |
| 00:50:07 | Chesteta | ok; as long as you are up for helping me I will do it, I appreciate your help doing this, has anything like this ever happened before that you know of? |
| 00:52:07 | saratoga | cygwin may not work correctly on Windows 7 yet |
| 00:52:47 | saratoga | how odd I just deleted a post in New Ports and it didn't go to the trash bin |
| 00:53:00 | Chesteta | oh :/ should I try running compatability mode? |
| 00:53:50 | | Join lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@157-157-71-184.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is) |
| 00:53:51 | rasher | It does seem likely that this is a Windows 7 thing |
| 00:53:58 | | Quit ender` (" I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. -- Jerome K. Jerome") |
| 00:54:41 | saratoga | you should probably just use a VM |
| 00:54:49 | gartral | keep in mind that win 7 is still not very heavily tested with much of anything, and its very hard to trackdown problems in, AFAIK |
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| 01:00 |
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| 01:04:51 | Chesteta | ok; I am working on getting sharpenvironment going however here is the output from the latest run http://pastebin.ca/1344487 |
| 01:05:02 | | Quit ze (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:05:07 | | Join ze [0] (i=ze@76.91.72.105) |
| 01:05:41 | rasher | Chesteta: Yeah, probably the same (randomly occuring) error, but in a different codec this time, which also hides the error output |
| 01:05:57 | Chesteta | yea... |
| 01:06:13 | rasher | Line 18 of apps/codecs/libwavpack/libwavpack.make |
| 01:06:26 | Chesteta | should I remove >/dev/null 2>&1 from all of em? |
| 01:06:36 | rasher | Might as well |
| 01:06:40 | rasher | What does ar −−version say? |
| 01:07:41 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:08:09 | Chesteta | 2.18.50.20080625 |
| 01:08:24 | Chesteta | along with some license stuff |
| 01:08:39 | rasher | That's probably fine |
| 01:08:52 | Chesteta | ok |
| 01:09:08 | rasher | But yeah, try removing >/dev/null 2>&1 from the .make files in apps/codecs/ |
| 01:09:09 | amiconn | If it's a target build, it's the crosscompiling ar that is involved |
| 01:09:25 | rasher | You do have a point.. |
| 01:10:31 | Chesteta | amiconn: are you saying that removing >/dev/null 2>&1 wont help? or did I misread? |
| 01:10:54 | rasher | No, he's telling me that the output of ar −−version is mostly irrelevant |
| 01:11:03 | Chesteta | oh ok |
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| 01:20:18 | | Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting") |
| 01:23:51 | | Quit n1s ("Lämnar") |
| 01:31:47 | Chesteta | ok; the out.txt is 978 kb so dialup users (anyone?) beware :) http://pastebin.ca/1344502 |
| 01:34:02 | rasher | Chesteta: looks like it completed... |
| 01:35:52 | Chesteta | properly? so it was the >/dev/null 2>&1 that was messing it up? |
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| 01:37:13 | rasher | Chesteta: hard to tell. Try doing it again |
| 01:37:24 | rasher | It seems unlikely. Maybe you just lucked out this time |
| 01:37:42 | rasher | (do make clean then make V=1 >out.txt 2>&1 |
| 01:37:47 | Chesteta | ok |
| 01:38:15 | Chesteta | I dont see how code could work one time and then with no changes not work however I will trust you |
| 01:39:12 | rasher | Well, considering it was breaking in different locations, it seems possible that you might just have done a run where none of them broke |
| 01:39:31 | rasher | I guess it's not out of the question that redirection stuff breaks |
| 01:40:08 | Chesteta | oh |
| 01:48:44 | Chesteta | you were correct rasher; the output is now 292 k |
| 01:49:09 | rasher | Hopefully with an actual error message this time |
| 01:50:14 | Chesteta | yea; hey i did run this though: "make clean; make V=1 >out.txt 2>&1" |
| 01:50:25 | Chesteta | instead of 2 seperate commands; is that ok? |
| 01:50:46 | rasher | That's the same |
| 01:50:51 | Chesteta | ok good |
| 01:51:10 | Chesteta | http://pastebin.ca/1344517 |
| 01:52:30 | rasher | Okay, that's interesting |
| 01:52:38 | rasher | # |
| 01:52:40 | rasher | /opt/arm/bin/arm-elf-ar: unable to rename '/home/Matt/rockbox/build/apps/codecs/libffmpegFLAC.a' reason: Permission denied |
| 01:52:54 | rasher | Sounds like Windows getting in the way, somehow |
| 01:53:17 | Chesteta | atleast its a new problem :) |
| 01:53:49 | Chesteta | well I setup cygwin the default way (as described on the rockbox page) |
| 01:54:08 | Chesteta | and it compiles properly the first time I install it |
| 01:54:31 | rasher | Yeah, this seems rather weird. Especially as it doesn't happen at the same location everytime |
| 01:55:14 | rasher | I doubt you're doing anything wrong. I'm suspecting Windows 7, but have no real idea how to proceed from here |
| 01:55:43 | Chesteta | oh... I will try and run things using sharpe suggested by gartral |
| 01:55:51 | rasher | At least you managed to find the actual error message eventually |
| 01:55:57 | Chesteta | yeah :) |
| 01:56:14 | Chesteta | or should I try and set the permissions on the cygwin folder maybe? |
| 01:56:45 | rasher | Considering most compiling works fine already, I'm not sure that'd really help |
| 01:57:07 | rasher | It seems like Windows just jumps in once in a while and stomps on a rename operation |
| 01:57:12 | Chesteta | yea. are you sayin the folder permissions or the sharpe |
| 01:57:24 | rasher | I've no idea what "sharpe" is |
| 01:57:33 | Llorean | It's a shell replacement, it seems. |
| 01:57:35 | rasher | You could try running it a few times to see if the error is similar |
| 01:57:36 | Chesteta | its an alternative shell (replacing windows exlorer) |
| 01:57:38 | Llorean | I can't imagine that'd be particularly helpful |
| 01:57:56 | Llorean | Ideally you should figure out why Windows Explorer is the problem, so that we can provide instructions in the future that actually work in Win7 |
| 01:57:59 | amiconn | Occasional 'permission denied' is something I observed in cygwin when a virus scanner is active |
| 01:58:20 | amiconn | It'S been a while since I last saw it though |
| 01:58:21 | Chesteta | I am not running a virus scanner; could windows indexer be messing things up? |
| 01:58:38 | rasher | amiconn: seems logical, considering windows' poor concurrent-access/moving/renaming/deleting handling |
| 01:58:38 | amiconn | I have no idea; winXP here |
| 01:58:45 | Chesteta | I would be glad to help you track down the problem |
| 01:58:46 | rasher | Chesteta: It probably could |
| 01:58:57 | rasher | Chesteta: Try turning off indexing (completely, or for that dir) |
| 01:59:03 | Chesteta | ok |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:11 | | Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 02:00:33 | Hawson | 'evening all |
| 02:02:33 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:04:30 | Hawson | So, I've got the 3.1 release installed on a Sansa e280. Works fairly well. I'd like to try out the current SVN release (it seems r20088 is current). |
| 02:04:53 | Llorean | Chesteta: What were you told sharpenvironment might do to help your case? |
| 02:05:04 | Hawson | can I just unzip the svn release? overwriting the current .rockbox directory. |
| 02:05:18 | Llorean | Hawson: We recommend using RBUtil to install it, but yes, it can be done that way as well. |
| 02:05:40 | Hawson | Llorean: I'm actually having some trouble with rbutil (1.0.9, 32bit) |
| 02:05:50 | Hawson | it gets stuck in a "your config is invalid" loop |
| 02:05:53 | Chesteta | gartral said it may help |
| 02:06:16 | Chesteta | he pm'ed me |
| 02:06:48 | Llorean | Generally speaking, it's better to diagnose the problem *before* guessing at solutions. ;) |
| 02:07:01 | Llorean | Hawson: Looping how? |
| 02:07:10 | Hawson | Llorean: wait...it's not cut twice, measure once? ;-) |
| 02:07:24 | Hawson | Llorean: I start rbutil, and get a message... |
| 02:07:31 | Chesteta | said it may make a difference; "it might, ive heard bad things of explorer build 7002 and cygwin/colinux" |
| 02:08:02 | Hawson | "Your configuration is invalid. This is most liekly tdue to a changed device path. [now starting config diaglog...]" |
| 02:08:23 | Hawson | the path for the mounted filesystem is correct. |
| 02:08:35 | Llorean | Hawson: Is auto-detect failing? |
| 02:08:38 | Hawson | I click "Ok", the dialog closes. |
| 02:08:50 | Hawson | and the "Your config is invalid..." window appears again. |
| 02:08:55 | Hawson | Llorean: no. it works. |
| 02:09:01 | Chesteta | I tried talking to him in the PM again however I dont think he is there |
| 02:09:04 | Hawson | Sansa E200. |
| 02:09:35 | Llorean | Hawson: So if you autodetect, and don't change anything, and close that, it won't install? |
| 02:10:02 | Hawson | Llorean: I don't get that far. I never get the chance to actually start the install |
| 02:10:31 | Hawson | as soon as I click 'OK', the popup for "your config is invalid" appears again, and re-starts the configuration dialog |
| 02:10:51 | Llorean | What OS are you on? |
| 02:11:00 | Hawson | Linux. |
| 02:11:02 | | Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 02:11:04 | Hawson | Gentoo, specifically |
| 02:11:14 | Hawson | although I am *not* using the ebuild |
| 02:11:24 | Llorean | Are you running as su or regular user? |
| 02:11:29 | Hawson | I'm using the 32bit binary |
| 02:11:39 | Hawson | reg. user. |
| 02:11:45 | Llorean | Check the permissions on your config file |
| 02:12:06 | Llorean | The original one might have been created belonging to root, since running with su is necessary for the bootloader install. |
| 02:12:11 | Hawson | yeah, checking that now (started as soon as you asked the question) |
| 02:12:35 | Hawson | that looks better |
| 02:12:48 | Hawson | well, I'd like to report that a minor bug. :) |
| 02:13:17 | Llorean | That's not really a bug |
| 02:13:29 | Llorean | If you run with gksudo or the KDE equivalent at least, I believe you'll be fine. |
| 02:13:33 | Hawson | It shouldn't loop like that. |
| 02:13:51 | Hawson | if saving the config file failed, there shoul dbe a message to that effect |
| 02:13:56 | Llorean | Ah, yes, it should report in something in that case yes. |
| 02:14:01 | Llorean | Please report the bug on the tracker then |
| 02:16:12 | Hawson | need an account on flyspray to report? |
| 02:16:14 | | Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") |
| 02:16:45 | Llorean | Yes |
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| 02:18:49 | Chesteta | hey the out.txt was 978 kb again |
| 02:19:04 | Chesteta | (same size as when it compiled properly last time) |
| 02:19:57 | Chesteta | rasher: should I pastebin it or should I recompile and see if i get the same size again? |
| 02:20:22 | rasher | Chesteta: is this with indexing disabled? |
| 02:20:26 | Chesteta | yes |
| 02:21:04 | rasher | try pastebinning it, or just the last dozen lines or so of it should be enough |
| 02:21:58 | Chesteta | ok well I am using notepad so I cannot tell what line is what line easily; ill just send it all :) |
| 02:22:00 | rocko | HELLO |
| 02:23:41 | Chesteta | http://pastebin.ca/1344541 |
| 02:24:14 | scorche|sh | rocko: no need to use caps like that... |
| 02:24:45 | rasher | Chesteta: yeah, that's a succesful build |
| 02:24:55 | Chesteta | excellent |
| 02:25:00 | Chesteta | ill run it again |
| 02:25:05 | rasher | skip the V=1 |
| 02:25:09 | Chesteta | ok |
| 02:27:19 | | Quit lymeca (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:32:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:33:14 | Hawson | Llorean: FS #9944 |
| 02:34:42 | Hawson | thanks for the help |
| 02:36:56 | Llorean | Thanks for the report |
| 02:42:55 | Chesteta | ok guys (and girls :) heres the latest run: i believe it compiled properly http://pastebin.ca/1344557 |
| 02:44:11 | Llorean | Looks good at a glance, at least |
| 02:44:33 | Chesteta | ok |
| 02:45:05 | rasher | Yeah, nothing alarming there. I think it's safe to say that indexing was causing the trouble |
| 02:45:31 | Chesteta | should i try and run another time? |
| 02:46:09 | Chesteta | or should i try and do an svn update.. would that put back the >/dev/null 2>&1 |
| 02:46:52 | Chesteta | (would it get messed up once the >/dev/null 2>&1 is back?) |
| 02:48:17 | kadoban | Chesteta: those should never cause or fix a problem, they simply stop things from being output |
| 02:48:27 | Chesteta | oh ok |
| 02:48:29 | rasher | I think we can assume it'll work from now on. svn update won't put back what you removed, but it won't harm |
| 02:48:47 | Chesteta | alright cool |
| 02:48:47 | rasher | you can simply delete the files before you svn update, and they'll be put back |
| 02:49:08 | Chesteta | i will do that and update again to make sure things will work |
| 02:49:24 | rasher | or svn revert - that should revert any changes |
| 02:50:03 | Chesteta | ah true |
| 02:50:42 | Chesteta | should i be using "make clean" from now on or will make suffice? |
| 02:51:12 | Hawson | assuming the makefile is well made, just 'make' shoudl do |
| 02:51:28 | kadoban | clean shouldn't be necessary |
| 02:51:47 | rasher | If things break however, try make clean |
| 02:51:48 | Chesteta | ok; sometimes it says to run "make reconf" (seems to be sorta often) is there a reason for that? |
| 02:52:07 | | Join jfc [0] (n=john@dpc691978010.direcpc.com) |
| 02:52:08 | kadoban | Chesteta: that's when the makefile itself or the configure scripts are updated |
| 02:52:33 | Chesteta | oh |
| 02:52:41 | | Join CaptainKewl [0] (i=jds@207-237-172-77.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 02:52:50 | kadoban | it doesn't happen too horribly often, but yeah, you should follow its advice in that case :) |
| 02:53:00 | Chesteta | alright will do |
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| 03:00 |
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| 03:14:26 | Chesteta | alright; just reconfirming; everything does work with the indexing service turned off for the cygwin directory in windows 7 |
| 03:16:12 | rasher | This should probably be noted somewhere |
| 03:21:21 | Chesteta | thanks for all your help everyone |
| 03:21:27 | gartral | np |
| 03:29:25 | cool_walking_ | you're welcome |
| 03:29:48 | | Quit rocko ("Leaving") |
| 03:30:53 | rasher | There's an issue with copy/paste of files from the main memory to a microsd card - the copy operation never completes if the disk becomes full during the operation |
| 03:32:30 | | Join jason____ [0] (n=chatzill@68-114-17-63.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 03:32:36 | rasher | I expect this might be the case even if you just copy in-place |
| 03:32:58 | rasher | Filed as FS #9945 |
| 03:33:01 | jason____ | so, are there any plans to support the ipod classic anytime in the future? |
| 03:33:10 | cool_walking_ | There are no plans, ever. |
| 03:33:52 | gartral | except those too fix serious bugs |
| 03:35:06 | cool_walking_ | I don't think there's been much activity on it, but you can see for yourself by looking at the thread in the New Ports forum. |
| 03:43:09 | saratoga | is anyone around who can tell me about metadata parsing, metadata.c specifically |
| 03:43:27 | | Join CapsAdmin [0] (n=sboyto@ti211110a081-0003.bb.online.no) |
| 03:43:50 | CapsAdmin | I can't find anything about losing all my songs in the faq. Will I lose everything when installing it? |
| 03:44:04 | CapsAdmin | Talking about rockbox |
| 03:44:36 | saratoga | no |
| 03:44:44 | CapsAdmin | ok thanks |
| 03:46:47 | | Quit jason____ ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]") |
| 03:50:09 | rasher | gartral: Please don't give (bad) advice in PMs when people come here for help |
| 03:55:53 | | Join Llor_Phone [0] (n=Llorean@166.188.198.232) |
| 03:57:22 | saratoga | are there any formats in rockbox that use ID3v1 besides MPA? |
| 03:58:52 | Llor_Phone | Does Monkey's Audio? |
| 03:59:12 | Llor_Phone | I seem to recall something about it and ID3 |
| 04:00 |
| 04:05:10 | | Join Barahir_ [0] (n=jonathan@Xb18b.x.pppool.de) |
| 04:05:13 | rasher | Surely that uses APE |
| 04:05:33 | gartral | whats vorbis use? |
| 04:05:43 | rasher | vorbiscomments |
| 04:05:52 | gartral | ahh |
| 04:07:24 | | Quit flyinghippo ("Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de") |
| 04:08:05 | rasher | saratoga: I don't think so... |
| 04:08:55 | | Join blkhawk- [0] (n=blkhawk@g227017031.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 04:10:12 | saratoga | TTA uses them, so those functions would need to be shared then |
| 04:11:08 | rasher | Is that the one that is almost but not quite opensource? |
| 04:11:32 | Llor_Phone | There some gpl code for it too, it seems |
| 04:12:37 | saratoga | yeah I found a GPLed decoder |
| 04:13:54 | saratoga | if figure this is a good excuse for me to learn how codecs work, since I need to know about that anyway for some of the changes I want to make |
| 04:14:10 | saratoga | the format is almost absurdly simple anyway |
| 04:14:27 | | Quit AndyI (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 04:17:17 | CapsAdmin | agh, how do I exit plugins and apps, the faq didn't really help me there |
| 04:17:32 | CapsAdmin | without having to shutdown my ipod |
| 04:17:38 | CapsAdmin | I have a 30 gb video one |
| 04:17:51 | | Quit _lifeless (Remote closed the connection) |
| 04:18:01 | | Join AndyI [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 04:18:06 | kadoban | CapsAdmin: did you read the manual? |
| 04:18:07 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@90.151.39.37) |
| 04:18:18 | CapsAdmin | I'm reading the faq |
| 04:18:34 | CapsAdmin | I'll read the manual |
| 04:18:36 | kadoban | i'd recommend the manual instead. the controls for all plugins are in there |
| 04:19:01 | | Quit Llor_Phone (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 04:19:09 | kadoban | (it's probably menu+select or long select you're looking for though, at a guess) |
| 04:20:43 | CapsAdmin | thanks |
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| 04:22:27 | gartral | to be clear, some are just menu, some are menu-menu, and some are menu+select |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:26:36 | NuGay | giid moring |
| 05:26:55 | NuGay | sry, good morning |
| 05:27:05 | cool_walking_ | hello |
| 05:27:20 | NuGay | is this the official RB channel where i can get support? |
| 05:27:23 | cool_walking_ | yes |
| 05:27:51 | NuGay | just english spoken channel right? |
| 05:28:10 | cool_walking_ | There are some guidelines you may wish to read linked in the channel topic. |
| 05:28:11 | | Quit NuGay (Client Quit) |
| 05:28:35 | | Join NuGuy [0] (n=5b13fcaa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-50fc6605eaaddce3) |
| 05:28:46 | NuGuy | Dammit, browser kicked my butt |
| 05:29:17 | cool_walking_ | There are some guidelines you may wish to read linked in the channel topic. FYI you can read sentences you missed from the logs: http://rockbox.org/irc/ |
| 05:30:29 | NuGuy | i bought a ipod 30gb phew days ago with RB installed and now i´m testing out the gadgets and functions... but i got a phew problems |
| 05:32:07 | NuGuy | I´m looking for a play selection like in the Apple OS which plays just a random song of the whole collection |
| 05:32:27 | Llorean | You need a playlist of the whole collection to do this. Then just set it on shuffle. |
| 05:32:57 | NuGuy | that would be my second question, how can i create playlists? i pushed "create" and nothing happens... |
| 05:33:13 | Llorean | Have you read the manual? |
| 05:33:13 | NuGuy | i hoped it´s easy as like as sharepod |
| 05:33:35 | NuGuy | not really intensitiv cause i was at work |
| 05:34:26 | Llorean | You should familiarize yourself with how the functions are supposed to work, and then if you don't understand that, come back with further questioning. |
| 05:34:50 | NuGuy | so i get just the stupid RTFM answer... |
| 05:34:54 | NuGuy | i love that... |
| 05:35:13 | Llorean | Well, if you'd read it, you wouldn't get it... |
| 05:35:38 | Llorean | We've already "told you how to do it" and now I'm pointing to where we did so, rather than having to retype the manual again. |
| 05:35:43 | rasher | NuGuy: The manual is quite good, and it was written for people to read |
| 05:36:20 | gartral | NuGuy: theres also a party mode in rockbox, and about your RTFM, guess what, we all had too at one point too... |
| 05:37:55 | NuGuy | actually i wanted to ask if there is a tool to create playlists instead using the ipod, someone told me there is a tool to convert itunes playlists... but i understand, i will read the fucking manual... cause everyone had to do it |
| 05:38:05 | Llorean | gartral: Party mode really doesn't have anything to do with what he asked. |
| 05:38:19 | gartral | ohh |
| 05:38:24 | Llorean | NuGuy: They're just M3U playlists. There's dozens, probably hundreds, of PC-side apps to make them |
| 05:39:17 | | Quit Horschti ("Verlassend") |
| 05:39:56 | NuGuy | i´m going to read the manual.. i´m sick of the arrogant answers everyone gets in irc channels |
| 05:41:22 | saratoga | NuGuy: why so surprised, its the first of the guidelines cool_walking suggested you read |
| 05:41:49 | saratoga | if you'd taken his advice, no one would have had to remind you of anything |
| 05:42:01 | NuGuy | what advice? |
| 05:42:17 | saratoga | read the guidelines |
| 05:42:43 | Llorean | NuGuy: Personally, I think it's pretty arrogant to come into an IRC channel and ask questions covered in the manual. Whether you intend to or not, the message you deliver is "My time is worth more than yours." |
| 05:43:25 | NuGuy | i didn´t even told you all my question about the tool, and you already talked about "...read the manual?" |
| 05:43:52 | Llorean | Nobody told you to read the manual for the question about the tool, and you know it |
| 05:43:59 | Llorean | You were told to read the manual for your question about the "create" option. |
| 05:44:49 | Llorean | Nobody forbade you from answering future questions, and I specifically even suggested you should ask questions about things not covered in the manual, or things that were covered in the manual that you didn't understand. |
| 05:45:08 | NuGuy | i didn´t asked anything about the create option. i only said i didn´t get it and in the moment i wanted to ask for a nice tool, there came the "Have you read the manual?" |
| 05:45:32 | Llorean | You said "(10:32:50 PM) NuGuy: that would be my second question, how can i create playlists? i pushed "create" and nothing happens..." |
| 05:45:54 | NuGuy | and thats the point when i wanted to ask the question about the tool |
| 05:45:56 | Llorean | Since this channel is #Rockbox, the obvious assumption is "How do I create playlists in Rockbox?" since M3U is a standard format, and how to create playlists in other programs is off-topic here anyway. |
| 05:46:10 | NuGuy | but i couldnt even answer as fast as you wrote about the manual |
| 05:46:18 | saratoga | NuGuy: maybe you should take a break from the internet while you calm down |
| 05:46:31 | NuGuy | whot? *g |
| 05:47:00 | saratoga | getting angry at Llorean for trying to help you is unlikely to do you much good |
| 05:47:05 | Llorean | NuGuy: So maybe you should actually ask the question you intend to ask, such as "How do I create playlists in other programs for Rockbox?" rather than leaving important bits out of your questions ,then getting upset at people who thought the question you asked was really the question you wanted answered. |
| 05:47:17 | Llorean | I've already actually told you the answer to your other question, without directing you to the manual. |
| 05:47:34 | Llorean | I never even said "RTFM" about asking about other means of creating playlists than in Rockbox. |
| 05:47:39 | NuGuy | blame me cause i can´t really write what i try to tell... my english is not even good.. |
| 05:47:53 | Llorean | You're blaming ME for answering what you wrote, rather than what you had in your head. |
| 05:47:56 | Llorean | I think it's only fair. |
| 05:48:11 | Llorean | I can't read your mind, so I answered the question you asked. |
| 05:48:15 | saratoga | seems reasonable to me |
| 05:48:23 | NuGuy | my english is nasty, so what.... it´s not fair to tell me "read the manual" before i can write my question in a foreign language |
| 05:48:26 | Llorean | If you asked the wrong question, you should say "Oh, I'm sorry, I meant to ask..." rather than complaining at me for doing so. |
| 05:48:46 | saratoga | yes, in fact if you thought your english was suspect, telling people might be a reasonable thing to do |
| 05:49:03 | saratoga | surely no one here could guess from your seemingly fine english that you weren't able to express your ideas to others |
| 05:49:43 | NuGuy | i will leave. treating me like a little child cause my english is not good enough to explain what i mean is not what i´m looking for.... |
| 05:49:46 | Llorean | NuGuy: You were told to "read the manual" for the question you already asked. |
| 05:49:58 | Llorean | Nobody knew another question was coming, and nobody intended for you to read the manual for questions not answered in it. |
| 05:50:03 | Llorean | We cannot see the future. |
| 05:50:06 | saratoga | I think people are treating you like a child because you're angry on the internet |
| 05:50:50 | cool_walking_ | NuGuy: The problem is that your English is so good that we didn't know you weren't a natural speaker :) |
| 05:50:53 | NuGuy | why do you think i wrote "..." now that is telling you the sentence is going on |
| 05:51:26 | Llorean | That's not what that means. |
| 05:51:41 | NuGuy | tells who? |
| 05:52:13 | Llorean | The English language. |
| 05:52:37 | Llorean | Next time, don't hit enter until you've finished your thought. Don't separate a single thought between lines. |
| 05:52:38 | NuGuy | ah thats the point, my english is bad like i already said |
| 05:52:42 | Llorean | This is also covered in our channel guidelines. |
| 05:53:06 | NuGuy | so all people who cant speak english that well do have problems in irc channels ^^ |
| 05:53:11 | Llorean | So the problem is "My English is bad, and you must psychically know this because I won't tell you in advance, and you must not answer any of my questions until I tell you which one is the real question"? |
| 05:53:57 | Llorean | Because that seems to be the problem here. You asked one question, and I answered it. |
| 05:54:07 | Llorean | For some *strange* reason you seem to think my answer must also apply to questions you hadn't asked yet. |
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| 05:54:37 | NuGuy | "that would be my second question, how can i create playlists?" i thought, "would" is not the same as "is". |
| 05:54:44 | | Join AndyI [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 05:55:18 | Llorean | "would be" certainly doesn't mean "is not" |
| 05:55:31 | NuGuy | i apologise for my shit talking, bad english, breaking guidelines and even to think about expecting normal people in irc chats |
| 05:56:11 | NuGuy | have a nice morning/day/night and good luck with running this channel |
| 05:57:12 | Llorean | As I said, a few times: If you want proper help the process is simple 1) Ask the question you want help with. 2) Accept answer. 3) Do not apply answer to questions you have not yet asked. |
| 05:58:04 | NuGuy | process.... sounds like using a fkn program or machine |
| 05:58:23 | NuGuy | didnt know we had to talk like machines to get answer |
| 05:59:01 | Llorean | You just have to recognize that time is linear. This is a causal universe. People will not give you answers to questions you haven't yet asked, so don't take answers and apply them to questions you've yet to say. |
| 05:59:29 | Llorean | No need to be a machine, but you need to not go crazy when someone actually answers the question you asked. |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:09 | NuGuy | i´m not going crazy, i´m just sick of arrogant tellings like "read manual" and so on |
| 06:00:21 | saratoga | you are going kind of crazy |
| 06:00:39 | saratoga | i didn't read anything in the last 5 minutes, but theres like a page of stuff from you that makes no sense |
| 06:00:44 | rasher | NuGuy: It was a reasonable answer to the question you asked. |
| 06:00:59 | NuGuy | not even close saragota ^^ |
| 06:01:02 | saratoga | maybe you should have taken my advice about not getting angry on the internet |
| 06:01:04 | Llorean | NuGuy: You asked a question that was answered in the manual. How is it "arrogant" to point you in the right direction for what you asked for? |
| 06:01:19 | Llorean | Am I *not* supposed to help you? |
| 06:03:31 | NuGuy | he, it´s funny. in the most irc channels there are a phew users like that, always in the channel and the only thing they say is like "read the manual" and if somebody got a question which is not answered in the manual they are quiet as a grave *gg |
| 06:03:32 | gartral | NuGuy: not too offend you... buuut, the only arrogent one i see here is you, we're all here to try and help, and too do this, two things have too happen, the first, is that you clearly ask you question... the second, is that one of us needs to know the answer too your question... |
| 06:04:31 | Llorean | NuGuy: I *answered* your question that was not in the manual. |
| 06:05:16 | NuGuy | maybe thats why nobody is looking for help in irc channels for alternative OS like RB or linux aso... ^^ |
| 06:06:13 | ze | sounds good to me... irc doesn't need any more whiney pricks who can't be bothered to rtfm |
| 06:06:30 | ze | (: |
| 06:06:37 | gartral | ok, nuguy, we have answered your questions, too the best of our abilities... please don't put us down because you don't understand the answers given.... |
| 06:06:45 | rasher | NuGuy: Plenty of people do. And we're glad to help. But we need to know what people are asking for help with. And pointing someone to where the question is answered is helping. |
| 06:07:01 | Mode | "#rockbox +o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 06:07:32 | NuGuy | i will try the ilinux os, maybe i cant chat with other user without a fight about respecting the holy guidelines *g |
| 06:09:22 | Llorean | NuGuy: If you're done asking Rockbox questions, this discussion has gone on long enough. If you want to whine some more, please take it to the Rockbox-community channel, as we've done our best to try to explain to you how you could've received much better help |
| 06:10:34 | NuGuy | i´m not whining, i making jokes cause ur pissed off cause i didnt respect the holy guidelines and show you a lot of respect cause you are the hole support users.. |
| 06:10:47 | NuGuy | thats all folks, which you a good morning |
| 06:10:49 | NuGuy | bye |
| 06:10:50 | Kick | (#Rockbox NuGuy :I said enough.) by Llorean!n=DarkkOne@rockbox/administrator/Llorean |
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| 07:21:53 | gartral | hmm... the solitaire game plugin's audio playback menu seems inconsistent with the rest of rockbox, mainly, if you stop playback from with in solitaire, you can not restart playback with the play/pause option shows "loading..." and disappears after a half second or less without starting playback |
| 07:23:47 | Llorean | Can you resume in other plugins? |
| 07:23:57 | gartral | , it shows* |
| 07:24:04 | gartral | ill try, one moment |
| 07:25:23 | gartral | no, same behavior |
| 07:25:38 | gartral | as tested with goban |
| 07:26:04 | Llorean | So it's consistent among plugins. |
| 07:26:45 | Llorean | It probably just needs a better splash, then, when playback couldn't be resumed. I don't know why, but there may be a reason for it. |
| 07:27:20 | gartral | no, i can stop in the plugin, but can't resume either |
| 07:27:51 | Llorean | I never said anything about stopping. |
| 07:30:48 | Llorean | The option is named "Pause/Play" right? It doesn't change to "Resume playback" like it does in the main menu when playback is stopped? |
| 07:31:44 | gartral | also.. it doesn't follow the fade on stop/pause, but does for next track and previous track options |
| 07:32:22 | Llorean | I'm still trying to understand what your original problem is. |
| 07:32:35 | Llorean | Ignoring fade settings is a clear bug you should file. |
| 07:32:52 | gartral | and the reason i assumed it would start from a stop, is because the "play" button does start from a stop in any menu |
| 07:33:02 | gartral | yes, it called "play/pause" |
| 07:33:21 | Llorean | So, the complaint is "it doesn't say Resume Playback, and doesn't resume playback"? |
| 07:34:01 | gartral | i didn't even think of looking it that way, but that fits... |
| 07:34:37 | | Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 07:34:56 | kadoban | it does the same thing on my device as well. i wonder if the code is attempting to resume or not... |
| 07:35:13 | gartral | ok, would the fade on track change/not on pause be a playback, or plugin bug? |
| 07:35:21 | Llorean | Either |
| 07:35:56 | * | gartral searches FS for similar bugs |
| 07:36:46 | | Join lasius [0] (n=chatzill@121.143.92.53) |
| 07:38:48 | kadoban | it looks like it's supposed to resume, at least there's code there to do it. i'll look into it a bit |
| 07:39:03 | gartral | ok, should i still file it? |
| 07:39:11 | kadoban | yes |
| 07:39:39 | kadoban | i suck at this code, and even if i find it, i'll post a patch wherever the bug report is |
| 07:41:57 | gartral | putting it under plugins, header: fade on pause/playback in plugins is ignored |
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| 07:44:14 | kadoban | thanks |
| 07:45:55 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 07:46:41 | gartral | filed as FS #9946 |
| 07:47:49 | gartral | and thank you, for such an amazing project |
| 07:49:50 | lasius | My songs skip from 10 to 100 instead of to 11 etc. What do I do wrong? |
| 07:50:54 | gartral | lasius: your skip length could be set wrong... |
| 07:51:56 | | Quit cool_walking_ ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 07:51:57 | Llorean | lasius: If the filenames go 10, 100, 101, 11 then that's what will happen. |
| 07:52:14 | Llorean | You may need to name the files 010, 011, 100, 101 to force the order, or create a playlist manually rather than just playing in folder order. |
| 07:54:13 | * | LinusN coughs "natural sorting" |
| 07:54:46 | Llorean | LinusN: Someone just needs to do it... |
| 07:55:02 | LinusN | what state is the patch in? |
| 07:55:16 | Llorean | No clue. |
| 07:55:20 | kadoban | as of a month ago it was working great |
| 07:55:32 | kadoban | haven't used it at all since |
| 07:56:55 | gartral | not that i can do anything about it yet, but how hard would it be too add a volume controll too the audio playback menu? |
| 07:57:07 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey ("Ex-Chat") |
| 07:57:20 | kadoban | gartral: it's already there :P |
| 07:57:23 | Llorean | gartral: It's in the Jewels one, at least |
| 07:57:28 | kadoban | if you're talking about the one in the plugins |
| 07:57:43 | Llorean | LinusN: Did we ever come up with names that were clearer than "natural" "unnatural"? |
| 07:58:19 | Llorean | Also, the patch seems to apply to the database sorting as well right now, and it seems possible that ought to work differently |
| 07:58:25 | gartral | kadoban: yes, i was, and Llorean: i didnt see it in jewels, but i wasn't looking very hard, lol |
| 07:59:05 | LinusN | i think we ended up accepting "natural" |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:19 | gartral | Llorean: there's no audio playback menu in jewels.rock on my e250, lemme check the sim |
| 08:00:48 | Llorean | gartral: Are you pulling up the context menu from within a game of jewels, and not just looking at the main menu? |
| 08:01:39 | lasius | Llorean: Actually, the files have names. I was playing it through the database->album. So I guess it was playing based upon track number. Do I have to change the track numbers from 10 to 010 etc? |
| 08:01:47 | Llorean | LinusN: I thought we'd come up with something better. |
| 08:02:08 | * | gartral hands Llorean a printed manual too slap me with "sorry, im a moron" |
| 08:02:26 | LinusN | "natural" seems to be the general term for it |
| 08:02:28 | kadoban | i seem to recall someone (llorean maybe?) suggesting what i thought was a good idea, just giving an example list (ex. "1, 02, 3") |
| 08:02:35 | Llorean | LinusN: Either way though, I don't think the database should follow the "Files" sort method (for one thing, why should it use that rather than the Folders one, and for another, when should it use either? In most cases the database has its own sorting rules anyway, and for track numbers it's supposed to ignore preceding zeroes anyway) |
| 08:02:51 | LinusN | i agree |
| 08:03:16 | gartral | how about "linear" sorting? |
| 08:03:37 | LinusN | i still don't know why we have to invent a new term for it |
| 08:03:41 | kadoban | linear wouldn't mean much to me in that context |
| 08:03:44 | Llorean | Ah, that's right. Instead of "Natural Sorting" "On/Off" we could have "Sort Numbers" "1, 02, 10"/"02, 1, 10" |
| 08:04:12 | Llorean | LinusN: "Natural Sorting" probably isn't a useful term outside of a few languages where it's well known, for one. |
| 08:04:18 | Llorean | A descriptive term translates much better. |
| 08:04:21 | * | gartral would understand the meaning of all three to be translated as "follow tracks by number" |
| 08:04:28 | Llorean | Natural Sorting also only generally means something to people who know what ASCII sorting is |
| 08:04:28 | kadoban | i'd vote for that suggestion, or just "natural" (but that seems to depend on language/culture) |
| 08:05:14 | LinusN | i forgot about transation, actually |
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| 08:05:59 | Llorean | Though in all honesty, Natural Sorting should default to "On" so people who don't know what it is don't need to turn it on. But I prefer "descriptions" to "terms" wherever possible so people can work out what options mean from the name / choices if possible. |
| 08:06:06 | NHeal | grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | balug [0] (n=dvg@HSI-KBW-078-042-132-156.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | fyrestorm [0] (n=fyre@cpe-24-90-81-53.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | shodanX [0] (n=shodanX@jazz.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | courtc [0] (n=court@unaffiliated/courtc) |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | markun [50] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun) |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | synergist [0] (i=christop@cant.be-arsed.co.uk) |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | lostlogic [50] (n=lostlogi@rockbox/developer/lostlogic) |
| 08:06:06 | NJoin | liiwi [0] (i=liiwi@idle.fi) |
| 08:08:13 | gartral | i would say include the info in the manual, but as nuguy pointed out, not everyone even knows what a manual is |
| 08:14:42 | | Quit balug ("Ex-Chat") |
| 08:15:44 | kadoban | the bug with the plugins' audio control menu is apparently really long-standing. it's there over a year ago... |
| 08:16:55 | gartral | funny that it went unreported so long |
| 08:17:24 | kadoban | it's weird, 'cause i actually use that menu a lot, but i don't think i ever stop music...just pause |
| 08:20:19 | gartral | also, i feel the the way jewels handles the audio playback menu is inconsistent with the rest, but even so that's minor |
| 08:21:57 | Llorean | What's inconsistent about it? |
| 08:23:16 | gartral | the fact thats its a context menu, the rest are off of the main menu |
| 08:23:46 | Llorean | You don't really want to force people to quit their game of jewels to access the playback settings, right? |
| 08:24:24 | gartral | well, no, but like the solitaire game you go back, make your change, and resume the game, like i said, it's minor |
| 08:24:46 | kadoban | if anything it seems like the bigger inconsistency is that jewels uses custom menus with different controls from the audio playback menu |
| 08:24:54 | Llorean | In jewels the game is saved to disk when you save and exit. |
| 08:25:05 | Llorean | You'd basically force a spinup every time they wanted to change the volume or whatever. |
| 08:25:56 | * | gartral keeps forgetting about the spinup problem, as he has a flash based target |
| 08:27:06 | gartral | and there's no way the state could temporarily be saved too ram until you actually quit? [side note] |
| 08:28:20 | Llorean | It could be done, but you still have to go *through* the context menu to save and exit (as opposed to exiting without saving) |
| 08:28:32 | Llorean | basically, it's just a formula to make adjusting the volume significantly more hassle for no real gain |
| 08:29:58 | kadoban | as long as the menu is in a place that's easy to get to, it doesn't seem like it needs to be changed regardless |
| 08:30:43 | gartral | ok, also, the ability to resume game from the main menu in jewels is slightly misleading, as it seems that you should return to where you were (as in resume game for solitaire) |
| 08:31:07 | gartral | mabey this should be "Resumed saved game"? |
| 08:32:40 | gartral | in fact, i could do that one myself, and submit my first actual patch... |
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| 08:37:52 | gartral | the question is, would anyone want too see this? |
| 08:38:33 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 08:43:01 | gartral | welll, the edit is done, but would anyone want this? |
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| 08:44:48 | amiconn | Llorean: Windows explorer seems to call it "logical sorting" (based on the registry setting to disable it, which is called NoStrCmpLogical). |
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| 08:56:55 | gartral | FS #9947 is my patch, for those who are intrested |
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| 08:58:22 | gartral | although, it's only a patch that adds one word >.> i highly doubt it'll break anything... |
| 08:59:33 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjorn@82.99.7.155) |
| 08:59:40 | * | linuxstb doesn't understand how the save game feature works in Jewels and wonders why it is needed at all, rather than just always keeping the state of the last game transparently |
| 09:00 |
| 09:01:18 | LinusN | linuxstb: to retry if you fail? |
| 09:01:24 | Llorean | LinusN: You can't |
| 09:01:28 | Llorean | The save is deleted when you load it. |
| 09:01:37 | LinusN | oh |
| 09:01:39 | Llorean | A new one is created only if you manually choose to "Save and Exit" |
| 09:01:48 | Llorean | If you exit without saving, on accident, all progress was lost. It's not the best system ever |
| 09:02:14 | Llorean | Probably just a case of implementing the first way to do it that came to mind. |
| 09:02:15 | kadoban | that seems kind of overdesigned... |
| 09:02:19 | linuxstb | LinusN: But that would be cheating anyway ;) |
| 09:02:23 | LinusN | hehe |
| 09:02:49 | LinusN | i believe it should always save the game, and let the user choose to resume when you start it next time |
| 09:03:10 | kadoban | am i correct in thinking that it should just use the normal menus? not much seems gained by using custom ones, and at least on e200 the controls for them aren't the same |
| 09:03:14 | B4gder | Zagor: we need to remove a bunch of >/dev/null 2>&1 from the makefiles, at least when V=1 is used... |
| 09:03:44 | Zagor | no objection from me |
| 09:03:52 | Llorean | LinusN: Makes sense. Always save on exits, and have "New" and "Resume" work as normal regarding that save |
| 09:04:05 | B4gder | turned out really hard to track down errors like how we currently do it |
| 09:04:13 | linuxstb | Zagor: Also, can you split the "gigabeat" option on Flyspray to "Gigabeat F/X" and "Gigabeat S" ? |
| 09:04:26 | Zagor | linuxstb: sure |
| 09:04:37 | Llorean | kadoban: The custom ones look nicer, but there's been a gradual trend toward converting custom menus to the standard ones (and hopefully viewports will eventually allow the standard ones to look custom again) |
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| 09:05:31 | gartral | wow, i started all this? |
| 09:06:13 | linuxstb | gartral: I think we're saying that the text is fine, but the functionality is wrong... |
| 09:06:36 | linuxstb | So please fix the functionality ;) |
| 09:07:13 | gartral | yea, but I'm not *that* good at coding, but i could try |
| 09:09:18 | | Quit GodEater_ ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 09:09:29 | gartral | not that it's THAT important, but under struct the definitions fall under "bjmenu" and too me... BJ means something rather lewd.... may i change this too just "jmenu"? |
| 09:10:45 | kadoban | i wouldn't unless it's necessary. extraneous changes tend to get confusing |
| 09:11:55 | gartral | yes, but i cant help bu laugh, also, it points back too the copyrighted "bejewled" game |
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| 09:14:04 | gartral | is it conceivable that others could make this distinction? |
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| 09:26:59 | B4gder | I don't see a point in renaming bjmenu |
| 09:27:28 | Llorean | It's just asking for a typo or something to be overlooked, with no real practical gain. |
| 09:27:33 | Llorean | It's one of those "why bother" kinda things. |
| 09:27:35 | B4gder | bejeweled is not a copyright, it's a trademark and I don't consider bjmenu to be even remotely similar |
| 09:28:15 | B4gder | yeah, if someone cleans up something else in there it could possibly be renamed too |
| 09:28:23 | B4gder | but who cares? |
| 09:28:29 | gartral | meh, I'm meticulous enough that i would bother >.> |
| 09:34:43 | | Quit krazykit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:35:12 | gartral | well... i know the first patch i submitted would work, as there was only one instance of the Resume Game entry under the Jewels title menu |
| 09:35:43 | gartral | though notepad++ found 3 entries of bjmenu... |
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| 09:38:28 | linuxstb | gartral: So it's only "bjmenu" you object to, not the 100s of other instances of "bj" ? |
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| 09:39:21 | * | gartral didn't bother looking, and does so now |
| 09:42:31 | gartral | ok, i believe i wiped em all out, just gotta check the Diff... |
| 09:48:39 | gartral | ok, all 387 entries of BJ changed... though, too avoid waisting time and space, im going to leave it till i can compile it tomarro |
| 09:48:40 | gartral | w |
| 09:51:20 | gartral | and too avoid confusion, I simply curtailed all entries to "J" (using strict match for bj and BJ) |
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| 10:49:02 | | Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 10:49:55 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Be careful how you answer this question ;) Do you have a windows development environment - i.e. Visual C++ ? |
| 10:50:07 | Nico_P | linuxstb: no :) |
| 10:50:16 | linuxstb | OK ;) |
| 10:50:48 | linuxstb | We need someone to work on the Windows version of beastpatcher... |
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| 10:56:41 | * | Nico_P voluteers jhMikeS for the job :) |
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| 11:04:49 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Have you used sendfirm.exe ? |
| 11:05:10 | linuxstb | BigBambi tried it last night (and my attempt at a WIndows version of beastpatcher), and neither worked for him. |
| 11:05:14 | Nico_P | no, I don't even have access to a windows computer |
| 11:05:23 | | Quit Rob2223 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:05:38 | linuxstb | OK, let's just drop support for Windows users then... |
| 11:08:00 | Nico_P | it's unfortunate that none of them seems interested in helping, if there are any of them |
| 11:08:01 | * | gartral is glad he doesn't have a beast |
| 11:08:20 | Nico_P | why |
| 11:08:23 | Nico_P | ? |
| 11:18:29 | gartral | because they seem more trouble then its wort |
| 11:18:31 | gartral | h |
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| 11:45:13 | linuxstb | gartral: No, it's simply that no-one has been working on the installation tools, and the port itself has become far more advanced and stable than the install tools... |
| 11:45:59 | gartral | does anyone know the impedance of the "stock" sansa headphones? |
| 11:46:17 | gartral | linuxstb: ahh |
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| 12:59:17 | BigBambi | linuxstb: I think my attempts failed because the beast wouldn't connect to windows at all, citing driver issues |
| 12:59:37 | BigBambi | linuxstb: In fact, I can try now on my work computer |
| 13:00 |
| 13:05:46 | linuxstb | BigBambi: OK, thanks. |
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| 13:29:00 | BigBambi | linuxstb: Well, I can't get the beast to connect to windows on this PC either, so no luck |
| 13:29:28 | * | BigBambi has just realised that means he can't get back to Rockbox until this evening - no linux here :( |
| 13:29:44 | BigBambi | I'll try a different one, last go :) |
| 13:31:16 | linuxstb | This sounds like it's going to be fun to document Windows installation... |
| 13:31:30 | linuxstb | "Run around, trying every Windows PC you can find, until one works..." |
| 13:34:47 | BigBambi | nope, no luck there either |
| 13:35:33 | BigBambi | I guess something is wierd with my beast, as it won't connect to Windows at all - if I was starting from this I wouldn't have been able to use it with the OF, let alone install Rockbox |
| 13:37:06 | * | linuxstb looks around for other Beast owners to test linuxstb.cream.org/rockbox/beastpatcher.exe">http://linuxstb.cream.org/rockbox/beastpatcher.exe |
| 13:37:40 | linuxstb | (you need the MTP_DLL.dll file from utils/MTP/ in the same directory) |
| 13:38:20 | linuxstb | BigBambi: I can't think how your Beast could be special though... |
| 13:39:31 | BigBambi | linuxstb: Me neither, but with three sperate XP installs it recognises it is a TOSHIBA gigabeat S, then pops up asking for a driver |
| 13:39:36 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 13:39:55 | linuxstb | Maybe you need one then? |
| 13:39:59 | BigBambi | The driver comes with WMP10/11 - two of those PCs have WMP11, one WMP10 and none work |
| 13:40:11 | BigBambi | I've never tried to use it before with windows |
| 13:40:27 | BigBambi | linuxstb: The only way to get the MTP driver is with WMP10/11 |
| 13:40:34 | BigBambi | apparently |
| 13:41:17 | B4gder | is SansaAms or AmsSansa the better wiki name? |
| 13:41:41 | * | B4gder intends to rename SansaV2 |
| 13:42:32 | B4gder | I think SansaAms is better |
| 13:43:41 | linuxstb | Why not SansaAMS ? We have UsingSVN, CustomWPS, ... |
| 13:44:12 | B4gder | ah yes that works |
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| 13:46:39 | * | BigBambi gives up and waits for linux tonight |
| 13:46:52 | linuxstb | BigBambi: I've just been googling - the advice seems to be to check "Device Manager" for MTP errors. |
| 13:47:34 | linuxstb | Apparently USB hubs can also cause problems... |
| 13:48:08 | BigBambi | no hubs here |
| 13:48:54 | BigBambi | And it appears in device manager under "Other Peripherals" (or something similar, that's my translation with the yellow error exclamation point |
| 13:49:22 | gevaerts | no hints if you ask for properties? |
| 13:49:55 | BigBambi | Just that it isn't configured correctly, and click here to reinstall the driver |
| 13:50:21 | BigBambi | Really odd |
| 13:50:37 | BigBambi | Anyway, never mind - I'll just use beastpatcher linux tonight :) |
| 13:51:30 | Llorean | How big should the original NK.bin be on a Gigabeat S? I have a dual boot one, I assume I need to restore it to non-dual-boot before i can test this tooL? |
| 13:51:36 | linuxstb | BigBambi: Maybe the manual will need to say something like "Ensure your Gigabeat is functioning correctly in Windows before attempting this installation." |
| 13:51:51 | linuxstb | Llorean: Ah, do you have your beast and a windows PC nearby? ;) |
| 13:52:04 | BigBambi | gevaerts: LinusNnot a bad idea |
| 13:52:06 | linuxstb | Llorean: It's about 12MB |
| 13:52:09 | BigBambi | Llorean: about 12 MB |
| 13:52:22 | Llorean | linuxstb: I have my beast, and I'm on Vista. |
| 13:52:31 | * | gevaerts wonders who BigBambi was actually talking to :) |
| 13:52:39 | Llorean | 12,739kb? |
| 13:52:56 | BigBambi | gevaerts: er yes, that went wrong |
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| 13:55:04 | linuxstb | Llorean: But no, you should be able to use it with a dual-boot nk.bin - but it will install a single-boot version. |
| 13:56:06 | Llorean | linuxstb: Okay, good, as I don't have a single boot one around right now. |
| 13:56:45 | linuxstb | Have you sucessfully used sendfirm.exe on that PC? |
| 13:56:59 | Llorean | No, I haven't trie.d |
| 13:57:25 | linuxstb | OK. If beastpatcher fails, it could be useful to try that - I can give you an nk.bin |
| 13:58:10 | Llorean | What's the URL of the needed DLL? |
| 13:58:30 | linuxstb | It's in SVN - utils/MTP/. Would you like me to upload it somewhere? |
| 13:59:27 | linuxstb | linuxstb.cream.org/rockbox/MTP_DLL.dll">http://linuxstb.cream.org/rockbox/MTP_DLL.dll |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:33 | Llorean | Wow, Vista won't recognize my Gigabeat S either. |
| 14:00:41 | Llorean | And it did on the other PC just fine, but that was 32-bit Vista. |
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| 14:05:29 | * | Llorean apparently cannot test. |
| 14:05:41 | linuxstb | Llorean: The Beast is fighting hard to stay unsupported... |
| 14:06:59 | * | Llorean wonders if it's a 64-bit thing |
| 14:07:09 | Llorean | BigBambi: Were this 32- or 64- machines? |
| 14:07:31 | linuxstb | B4gder: You're going to rename the page just after posting a link to the mailing list? ;) |
| 14:07:39 | B4gder | haha, yeah |
| 14:07:47 | B4gder | I posted, then started thinking... |
| 14:07:56 | linuxstb | Always the wrong order... |
| 14:08:02 | B4gder | "how do we gain more clicks" ;-) |
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| 14:13:55 | | Part gartral |
| 14:16:58 | linuxstb | B4gder: There are a few other pages - SansaV2Firmware SansaV2HardwareMappings |
| 14:17:38 | B4gder | yeah, I'll take them on too soon as well |
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| 14:40:31 | BigBambi | Llorean: 32 |
| 14:41:49 | * | Llorean thinks it's odd that we're generally having better luck with a traditionally windows-only protocol in Linux. |
| 14:42:11 | linuxstb | Or simply connecting a Windows branded hardware device with Windows... |
| 14:42:45 | * | linuxstb pings jhMikeS to see if he has any tips |
| 14:46:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Has anyone tried building beastpatcher on OS X yet? |
| 14:47:22 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: Not that I know of. |
| 14:48:31 | linuxstb | The Makefile is partly prepared for it (I copied bits from e200rpatcher), but it's going to need more work. But you'll need to install both libusb and libmtp. built for both architectures. |
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| 14:49:32 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: I already have both installed via Fink. I'll see if it builds later on when I have some free time. |
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| 14:55:57 | * | LambdaCalculus37 wonders if we should put compiled versions of beastpatcher for each OS up on Flyspray for others to test out |
| 14:57:56 | linuxstb | I think it's too early for that. |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:00:45 | kugel | So did we agree on natural sorting? |
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| 15:02:43 | linuxstb | kugel: You should know that there is never any agreement on anything... |
| 15:02:56 | * | gevaerts didn't, but he won't complain too loudly |
| 15:03:45 | linuxstb | Is there a "commit-candidate" patch? |
| 15:04:17 | kugel | linuxstb: I just saw the small discussion today, where nobody really complained against natural sorting |
| 15:05:01 | Llorean | Plenty of people complained against natural sorting |
| 15:05:08 | Llorean | Also, the patch shouldn't touch database sorting.] |
| 15:05:23 | kugel | Llorean: yea, I figured |
| 15:05:35 | linuxstb | Llorean: What's the issue with database sorting? |
| 15:05:53 | Llorean | linuxstb: The current version of the patch uses the "Files" setting to affect database sorting somehow, according to the notes. |
| 15:06:47 | kugel | linuxstb: I somehow thought it was wrong there too, no idea why |
| 15:07:07 | Llorean | The database uses the Track Number tag, as an actual number, for sorting |
| 15:07:07 | linuxstb | Then I guess that option needs moving/renaming. Shouldn't the same sorting algorithm/setting be used in both views? |
| 15:07:10 | Llorean | It should already be "natural" |
| 15:07:37 | linuxstb | Not if song/album/artist names start with a digit. |
| 15:07:40 | Llorean | linuxstb: There's two options. "File" sorting and "Directory" sorting (form the looks of it). If we're going to separate them, there should be a third, "Tag" for database |
| 15:08:00 | Llorean | Otherwise, there should be some logic as to which tags get "File" sorted, and which get "Directory" sorted. |
| 15:08:25 | * | linuxstb quickly shuts this can of worms and goes back to work |
| 15:09:24 | Llorean | kugel: I thought the agreement was that it should have a demonstrative name, rather than a 'term' name. That's what we agreed in the past, too. |
| 15:09:57 | kugel | you mean the "1 02 10" name thing? |
| 15:10:01 | Llorean | Yes |
| 15:10:16 | Llorean | "Natural Sorting" is a term that will only be familiar to people who already know about ascii vs natural. Otherwise they'll have no clue what it means to turn it on/off from the name. It's also difficult to translate, since the term doesn't exist in many languages. |
| 15:10:23 | kugel | right, I forgot about this. But I think it was rather a idea, and waited for someone to do it |
| 15:10:42 | Llorean | "Numeric Sort Order" with options of "1, 02, 10" and "02, 1, 10" translates better, and can be understood by people who don't know the terms |
| 15:11:16 | Llorean | "Numeric Sort Order" or a phrase like it, at least. |
| 15:12:04 | kugel | so what about the seperation of files and directories? this complicates it all |
| 15:12:37 | Llorean | Why? |
| 15:13:26 | kugel | Or do you want the "Numeric Sort Order" applied to both at the same time? |
| 15:13:33 | Llorean | Yes. |
| 15:13:39 | kugel | so why are they seperate? |
| 15:13:48 | Llorean | For the other options. |
| 15:14:05 | Llorean | The way numbers are handled should factor into almost all the other sort options |
| 15:14:28 | Llorean | You leave SORT_ALPHA, SORT_DATE, SORT_DATE_REVERSED, SORT_TYPE, SORT_ALPHA_REVERSED, SORT_TYPE_REVERSED as they are, and simply use the numeric setting to determine what "alphabetical" means when numbers are present at the start |
| 15:14:51 | kugel | I'll look into this |
| 15:15:08 | Llorean | Since, I believe, SORT_TYPE should then sub-sort to alphabetical after it's sorted by type |
| 15:15:19 | Llorean | And it natural is on, this will be a different alphabetical than if natural is off |
| 15:16:03 | * | linuxstb wonders why Llorean keeps calling it "natural" if he doesn't think that's a good name... |
| 15:16:17 | Llorean | linuxstb: I don't disagree it's the best known term for it. |
| 15:16:43 | Llorean | The problem is, the big reason for including it is people don't know about the differences in sorting. These are the very same people who wouldn't know the term. |
| 15:16:56 | | Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:16:58 | kugel | linuxstb: I do it too, just because it seems to be the most common one (even if wrong |
| 15:17:01 | kugel | ) |
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| 15:18:15 | Llorean | But I think it would provide the most benefit as a "modifier" to the other sort methods, rather than trying to be one of its own. |
| 15:18:56 | kugel | this could maybe work |
| 15:19:33 | linuxstb | I just think it's going too far to not use a technical term just because people that don't need to know it, don't know it. |
| 15:20:18 | Llorean | The people who need to know it, don't know it. |
| 15:20:24 | Llorean | The people who don't need to know it, do know it. |
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| 15:21:17 | Llorean | And, regardless, a demonstrative title and options is much easier to translate and to infer the meaning of. |
| 15:21:50 | Llorean | I really don't get the benefit of naming it "Natural Sorting." The only people who will understand the term are people already familiar with the differences - people who then wouldn't previously have been confused by the sort order. |
| 15:22:11 | linuxstb | No, I would say the opposite - if the default is "on" (which I think it should be, even though I would probably disable it). |
| 15:22:40 | Llorean | If the default is on, which it should be, we'll have thousands or tens of thousands of users of 3.2 whose files may suddenly be in a different order. |
| 15:23:17 | Llorean | Natural Sorting - On/Off isn't going to tell them, at all, what to expect when they toggle it. |
| 15:23:58 | Llorean | What's *wrong* with naming it "Numeric Sorting" exactly? Why is that worse than "Natural Sorting" in your view? |
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| 15:24:30 | Llorean | As far as I can see, the only bad thing about it is "it doesn't sound as nice" but it has the benefit of "a large number more people can understand what it does" and "it translates easier" |
| 15:24:36 | Llorean | I'd trade "not sounding as nice" for that... |
| 15:24:41 | Llorean | Is there something specific that's wrong with it? |
| 15:24:52 | linuxstb | Because it's not the accepted term for it. |
| 15:25:18 | Unhelpful | "numeric" seems descriptive... we could say "library" sort, but we're not also skipping initial articles when sorting |
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| 15:26:13 | Zagor | can we just paste the last discussion? |
| 15:26:19 | Llorean | linuxstb: That's bullshit. It's the most common term, not some sort of official one. Windows calls it "logical sorting" apparently, and even if it were the accepted term that's still just a fancy way of saying "we know what to call it in one language" |
| 15:26:29 | kugel | Zagor: :) |
| 15:26:49 | Llorean | Not to mention there's no rule that says we need to use "accepted terms" when there's a *better* option. |
| 15:26:53 | linuxstb | Zagor: Or just link me to it... |
| 15:27:00 | Llorean | Anyone who knows "Natural Sorting" can figure out "Numeric Sorting" |
| 15:27:10 | Llorean | So again: What's the *disadvantage* in an actual "practical use" sense? |
| 15:27:22 | Llorean | What do we *lose* by naming it this? |
| 15:28:46 | Zagor | linuxstb: prepare for a long read :-) http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090115#16:54:54 |
| 15:29:45 | Zagor | and continued on http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090121#15:37:10 |
| 15:37:30 | kugel | I'll just go and implement what Llorean said (the modifier thing and as name "1 2 03 10" vs "03 1 10 2") |
| 15:37:57 | Llorean | no matter what we call it, it should probably be a modifier. |
| 15:38:10 | Llorean | It makes it more flexible in relation to the other existing sort options. |
| 15:38:27 | kugel | I think most people won't ever change that option anyway (if natural is default), the others can look into the manual |
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| 15:43:44 | * | pixelma wonders how descriptive such a "1 2 03 10" is when you can only hear it... |
| 15:44:09 | Llorean | Depends on whether it says "zero-three" I guess. |
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| 15:47:17 | kugel | hm, well, I thought "1 2 03 10" wouldn't need to be in a lang, as it's not to be translated (imo), but what to do about voice then? |
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| 15:50:45 | pixelma | what about "Ignore leading zeros"? I realise though that this discussion has already become a bit tiresome |
| 15:52:09 | kugel | well, it does a bit more. |
| 15:52:13 | Llorean | But it's not ignoring leading zeroes. It's not requiring them in the first place. |
| 15:52:25 | Llorean | In fact, I'd hope it *doesn't* ignore them if they're there intentionally, but that's me. |
| 15:53:14 | pixelma | kugel: for numbers (and characters) there already are VOICE_* strings |
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| 15:54:55 | pixelma | right, was an a wrong track there for a moment. |
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| 15:55:45 | gevaerts | kugel: I'd add it to the lang files anyway in case people change their minds about how it should be named |
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| 16:14:06 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts: any hints how to find out why data from host -> device over mass storage doesn't get transmitted? I don't even see a WRITE command transmitted.. |
| 16:16:35 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: I'd try to see if the previous transfer had issues. otherwise I have no real idea |
| 16:17:13 | mcuelenaere | what do you mean with 'the previous transfer'? |
| 16:17:36 | gevaerts | There must have been something before your expected transfer |
| 16:18:09 | gevaerts | or am I misunderstanding the problem? |
| 16:18:20 | mcuelenaere | I'm probably not explaining it right :) |
| 16:18:41 | mcuelenaere | I'm doing 'sudo dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sde count=10240' which 'hangs' |
| 16:18:54 | mcuelenaere | if=/dev/sde of=/dev/null works great |
| 16:19:04 | mcuelenaere | dmesg doesn't give me anything useful |
| 16:19:23 | gevaerts | Don't use /dev/random. Use /dev/urandom instead |
| 16:20:33 | mcuelenaere | nice, now it works :) |
| 16:20:46 | B4gder | /dev/random will hang when out of "randomness" |
| 16:20:48 | mcuelenaere | although 1.4 MB/s is a bit slow |
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| 16:20:58 | kugel | B4gder: a feature |
| 16:21:02 | B4gder | indeed |
| 16:21:09 | mcuelenaere | B4gder: yes I know, but I didn't know which is which (urandom <-> random) |
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| 16:21:47 | linuxstb | "u" is short for "pseudo" - that helps me remember. |
| 16:22:01 | mcuelenaere | thanks |
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| 16:22:39 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts: any 'stress tests' available for mass storage on the RAM disk? |
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| 16:24:07 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: probably. I don't know any off-hand though. You could try the "official" UMS tests from usb.org, but I don't know how well they are expected to run on our stack these days, and they're not really stress-tests |
| 16:24:58 | mcuelenaere | anything that'll test USB will do :) |
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| 16:26:52 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: http://www.usb.org/developers/tools/ |
| 16:27:10 | mcuelenaere | yeah, I'm downloading USBCV |
| 16:28:20 | mcuelenaere | hmm that did a 'stack switch' and now my USB mouse doesn't work anymore.. |
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| 17:13:15 | midijunkie | got a compiling prob on r20090(target fuze): "no rule to make target '......fuze/debug-target.h', needed by '.....apps/debug_menu.o' |
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| 17:25:39 | kugel | midijunkie: make clean |
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| 17:31:04 | rasher | Think I nailed the file-paste bug (FS #9945) |
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| 17:36:29 | * | mcuelenaere thinks there's still something wrong with logf over USB |
| 17:36:38 | mcuelenaere | that or doing cat /dev/ttyUSB0 isn't working |
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| 17:47:00 | at0m | mcuelenaere, i've known people making stresstests with dd, something along the line of dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1024 |
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| 17:47:19 | mcuelenaere | at0m: yes, I did something similar |
| 17:47:21 | at0m | swap if and of for read or write |
| 17:47:41 | mcuelenaere | but then I found this ( http://www.nu2.nu/bst/ ), which is easier :) |
| 17:47:46 | mcuelenaere | a bit off-topic though |
| 17:48:01 | at0m | oki glad you found a solution |
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| 17:48:26 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: vary the bs a bit if you use dd |
| 17:49:51 | at0m | earlier this week i did dd with of=h340 instead of usb stick, which was a real stresstest, for me :] |
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| 17:57:39 | * | mcuelenaere wonders why RB would crash on USB MSC, while the bootloader works fine.. |
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| 18:00:33 | * | rasher runs into another oddity with disk-full |
| 18:01:53 | rasher | If you paste a folder and that operation fails (at least with the patch from FS #9945, it might have just hung previously), it seems the cleanup doesn't quite work |
| 18:03:01 | rasher | And you get what looks like an endless tree with that folder containing a folder of the same name, etc |
| 18:03:23 | rasher | Mounting the disk in Linux though, it looks like there's just the single folder |
| 18:04:09 | gevaerts | rasher: any relation to FS #9409? |
| 18:05:06 | rasher | I don't *think* so |
| 18:05:37 | rasher | That sounds more like some sort of FD leak or similar horror |
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| 18:06:25 | rasher | FS #9945 was simply the paste code not properly checking for errors in the write operation |
| 18:06:43 | rasher | Which caused the paste operation to enter an infinite loop when encountering disk full |
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| 18:07:48 | rasher | Doesn't seem related? |
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| 18:12:44 | * | kugel_ is still trying to understand the boosting bug |
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| 18:17:48 | MTee | Hello |
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| 18:27:38 | linuxstb | rasher: I meant to ask, do the language tools do case insensitive matching? i.e. will FS #9948 affect other languages? (I changed all three strings - source, dest and voice). |
| 18:28:28 | rasher | linuxstb: I don't think it does. You could use tools/langtool.pl to change the source in other langauges to match the new english.lang |
| 18:29:15 | linuxstb | OK. I'll probably ask you again if it's committed... |
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| 18:31:42 | rasher | It should probably be done just prior to commit |
| 18:31:53 | rasher | no sense in including it in the patch yet |
| 18:32:02 | rasher | that'd just be a lot of noise |
| 18:32:21 | BigBambi | linuxstb: you seem to have missed a "Center Frequency" |
| 18:32:31 | * | linuxstb hangs head in shame |
| 18:32:36 | BigBambi | i.e. changed the F in frequency but not the Centre |
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| 18:33:41 | linuxstb | I guess they should be fixed now anyway. |
| 18:33:48 | BigBambi | but other than that I'm generally for it (I'm actually less bothered about the title/sentence case than the speeling :)) |
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| 18:44:51 | orsonj | I have a picture of the Sansa C240 v2 for the wiki, could someone enable my wiki account? (OrsonJones) |
| 18:45:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | orsonj: Sure, one moment. |
| 18:45:55 | linuxstb | orsonj: Done |
| 18:45:59 | | Quit pyro_maniac ("Leaving.") |
| 18:46:15 | rasher | linuxstb wins. |
| 18:46:16 | LambdaCalculus37 | Too slow. :P |
| 18:46:36 | linuxstb | rasher: What do I win? Can I commit a patch of my choice? |
| 18:55:06 | orsonj | thanks, that worked. |
| 18:56:01 | linuxstb | orsonj: We prefer images to be uploaded to the wiki - so they don't disappear in the future. |
| 18:56:39 | orsonj | sure, is that the attach link at the bottom? |
| 18:56:47 | linuxstb | Yes. |
| 18:56:53 | orsonj | I just saw the other image was hosted externally and followed suit |
| 18:57:09 | linuxstb | Ah, that should be uploaded as well then... |
| 18:57:32 | linuxstb | When you upload, you can tick both boxes, and then you'll get a nice link in the page that you can copy/paste to where you want it. |
| 18:58:01 | linuxstb | The "hide file" option prevents it appearing in a table of attachments at the bottom. Although maybe that would be nice to leave... |
| 19:00 |
| 19:02:24 | orsonj | ok, I got mine up properly, I'll go ahead fix the other two also. |
| 19:03:11 | linuxstb | Thanks. There's nothing more frustrating than a broken link... |
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| 19:15:32 | kugel_ | it seems the metadata is buffered, but not the track |
| 19:16:02 | kugel_ | but due to that, it doesn't notice that the buffer is full (it actually only looks for a full buffer at meta data buffering) |
| 19:20:24 | kugel_ | well, the bug still seems to be in add_handle() |
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| 19:22:14 | kugel_ | Nico_P: ping |
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| 19:30:58 | fml | amiconn: ping |
| 19:31:27 | fml | pixelma: ping |
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| 19:34:18 | fml | amiconn: with r18389 you added some fonts. Where did you get the files from? Since font metrics do not seem to be right. Many glyphs go beyond the font ascent/descent. |
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| 19:36:49 | kugel_ | fml: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9931 ? |
| 19:37:29 | rasher | fml: probably from xorg |
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| 19:38:11 | fml | kugel_: yes |
| 19:38:54 | fml | For 35-Adobe-Helvetica, if we'd change the font size to ~40 everything would be fine |
| 19:39:12 | kugel_ | the patch changes it to 48 |
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| 19:39:42 | fml | kugel_: the three fonts I corrected were fine, only one glyph was too big (copy/paste I think). But not the others |
| 19:43:03 | fml | kugel_: where does it do it? It only suggests to do so. But I think it can't be right since for the normal (not bold) version of the font, 49 is proposed. This is because the correction is made just mechanically. |
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| 19:46:04 | kugel_ | fml: oh, seems I got something wrong |
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| 19:49:45 | amiconn | fml: They're all standard X11 fonts |
| 19:51:30 | fml | amiconn: might be. But the metrics a apparently wrong. Did you get them as ready BDF? Or converted yourself? |
| 19:51:41 | amiconn | Got them as BDF |
| 19:52:03 | rasher | afaik bdf is the source format for these |
| 19:52:03 | fml | amiconn: very weird. Semms that nobody uses them :-) |
| 19:52:05 | amiconn | Some are from the 75 dpi and some from the 100dpi directory. |
| 19:52:25 | amiconn | I tried all of them, and couldn't find anything unusual |
| 19:52:37 | rasher | fml: maybe nobody uses the metrics? |
| 19:52:48 | amiconn | Of course I didn't try each and every glyph |
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| 19:54:43 | fml | amiconn: e.g. 35-adobe-bold. Ascent is 28; char 194 (Acircumflex): glyph height is 31 which is > 28 |
| 19:55:49 | fml | amiconn: hence the font ascent should be at least 31, hence the font size should be increased to at least 38 (i.e. +3). All glyphs should be analyzed though. |
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| 19:57:46 | kugel_ | fml: I think the other guy said the descent is wrong too |
| 19:58:42 | fml | kugel_: very possible |
| 20:00 |
| 20:04:13 | pixelma | fml: can you show how such a wrong character looks? |
| 20:06:18 | fml | pixelma: I have no screenshot. But it's just that: if the char is displayed with respect to the font metrics, the top of it is cut away. |
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| 20:07:42 | fml | pixelma: FS #9931 has patches for three fonts which are apparently a copy-paste errors (a char was copied from nimbus14 to nimbus10 and 11). Those 3 patches can be committed now IMO. |
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| 20:08:40 | fml | pixelma: BTW: are you the master of bitmaps? Could you have a look at FS #9941 ? |
| 20:09:01 | | Quit webguest31 (Client Quit) |
| 20:09:06 | fml | pixelma: and while you're at it, also at FS #9939 |
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| 20:12:56 | Nico_P | kugel_: pong |
| 20:13:29 | fml | pixelma: have you a file/song with an "Ü" (capital U umlaut) in the name/tag? Try it with 35-adobe-bold. Even this char shouldn't be displayed correctly |
| 20:14:31 | pixelma | I'm a bit occupied with RL work currently... but FS #9939 looks like the opposite to linuxstb's sentence case patch. About FS #9941: I don't have a strong opinion, could be an improvement (except for the "negative" displays of the M:Robe100 or the Clip, I wonder if a new define HAVE_INVERTED_DISPLAY or somesuch would be in order...) |
| 20:15:46 | pixelma | I didn't look how it is done currently on those, I admit |
| 20:17:46 | amiconn | fml: The fonts are all taken from http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/xorg/xc/fonts/bdf/ |
| 20:18:10 | amiconn | They're just renamed to our font naming scheme |
| 20:18:58 | kugel_ | Nico_P: I have this bug here. On a certain playlist (played via <all tracks> in the database), it doesn't stop boosting after buffering is finished |
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| 20:19:30 | Nico_P | kugel_: I think there's an FS task for it |
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| 20:19:56 | fml | pixelma: err... I thought all menues are written in Title Case. Other menu entries in the clock use it. |
| 20:20:15 | fml | amiconn: I'll ook at them |
| 20:20:23 | kugel | Nico_P: really? I remember such a task, but I also remember it was fixed |
| 20:20:40 | kugel | Nico_P: anyway, I'm trying to track it down |
| 20:21:03 | kugel | it seems there's only 1 point where playback checks for a full buffer, at metadata buffering |
| 20:21:29 | Nico_P | kugel: there's FS #8999 at least. I tried tracking it down but haven't had enough time so far |
| 20:21:34 | kugel | and in my case, it seems to load the metadata of the 6th track, but it doesn't manage to load other parts of the 6th track (track count remains at 5) |
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| 20:23:16 | kugel | so I assume it doesn't see the full buffer due to the successful metadata buffering |
| 20:24:07 | kugel | the weird thing is: data_rem actually grows a bit again when the buffer reaches the end (maybe it tries to invalidate the beginning of the 6th track?) |
| 20:24:59 | fml | amiconn: could you help me? What was e.g. 35-Adobe-Helvetica-Bold? |
| 20:25:24 | Nico_P | kugel: do you think FS #8999 is the same issue? what you're saying reminds me of what I had found at the time |
| 20:27:48 | kugel | Nico_P: well, I don't skip tracks or so |
| 20:28:13 | kugel | I just hit play in the database and go immediately into the view buffering menu, to watch how it keeps boosted |
| 20:29:09 | amiconn | fml: helvB24 from the 100dpi directory. The contents is identical |
| 20:29:10 | fml | amiconn: I can't find anything with 35 in the name there |
| 20:29:58 | amiconn | Of course not. Our font naming scheme uses the height in pixels when converted with convbdf, not the height in points |
| 20:30:52 | amiconn | (which doesn't tell anything about the actual on-screen size for a bitmap font) |
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| 20:36:06 | fml | amiconn: the font seems to have wrong metrics. Weird. |
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| 20:41:47 | pixelma | that Ü really is cut-off and instead has a part of (probably the following) letter at the bottom |
| 20:41:59 | pixelma | in 35-Adobe-Helvetica |
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| 20:43:06 | fml | pixelma: yes, I expected that |
| 20:43:40 | pixelma | but decending (can I say so?) letters - like "p" - take all the space down |
| 20:44:26 | pixelma | descending even |
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| 20:45:08 | fml | pixelma: p seems to be OK. Glyphs are allowed to take up the whole space |
| 20:45:50 | pixelma | yes, but then it seems the font isn't "tall" enough |
| 20:45:51 | kugel | Nico_P: my actual question is, why does it load the metadata, but not increment track count? |
| 20:46:50 | Nico_P | kugel: I think audio_finish_load_track() never gets called, does it? |
| 20:46:53 | fml | pixelma: yes, but p is OK IMHO. Other glyphs are not. |
| 20:47:07 | kugel | Nico_P: let me check |
| 20:49:49 | kugel | Nico_P: it does |
| 20:50:52 | kugel | Nico_P: here's the logf http://pastie.org/397690 |
| 20:51:21 | kugel | Nico_P: whoops, this one http://pastie.org/397693 |
| 20:51:37 | pixelma | fml: it was just me thinking that then you can't only change the font ascend setting but have to figure out how these geometry definitions have to be |
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| 20:52:21 | kugel | Nico_P: interesting, the alt:%s logf comes through, but not the one at the end |
| 20:52:55 | Nico_P | I see one on line 1... |
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| 20:54:00 | fml | pixelma: sure. Give me a moment |
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| 20:57:35 | kugel | Nico_P: yea, but "audio > audio Q_AUDIO_FILL_BUFFER" isn't there, so it return at "if (tracks[track_widx].audio_hid < 0)" |
| 20:58:31 | fml | pixelma: Uchida was correct: for 35-adobe-bold, descent should be 12, ascent should be 37, and the font size should hence be 49 (instead of 35!) What a large error! |
| 20:59:57 | fml | For the not-bold font, he proposes to make ascent=11. But this can't be correct since both fonts should have the same height. |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:34 | Nico_P | kugel: maybe this should set filling to STATE_FULL before returning then |
| 21:00:36 | kugel | Nico_P: I think I got it! |
| 21:00:47 | kugel | Nico_P: exactly that's what I just did, and it seems to help |
| 21:01:08 | Nico_P | it should |
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| 21:06:30 | kugel | \o/ |
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| 21:07:39 | kugel | Nico_P: the same should be done when buffering metadata and album art fails, I suppose? |
| 21:08:17 | Nico_P | probably, but those could fail for other reasons too |
| 21:09:07 | kugel | Nico_P: well, at metadata buffering, it already does that |
| 21:09:21 | kugel | for album art, toni committed the check today, but didn't set filling |
| 21:09:52 | bluebrother | Llorean: if you run rbutil as a different user you'll get a different configuration. Thus it's impossible you have a permission issue on the config file |
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| 21:10:06 | Nico_P | kugel: yes, it should be added to his commit to |
| 21:10:10 | Nico_P | *too |
| 21:10:44 | bluebrother | unless (at least on linux) it isn't run from a proper login shell, but that is a user error |
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| 21:13:01 | kugel | Nico_P: I'm inclined to check for ERR_BUFFER_FULL explicitely, and only set filling to STATE_FULL in this case...and leave filling on the other errors. |
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| 21:15:37 | kugel | this definitely fixes my boosting problem |
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| 21:16:23 | linuxstb | bluebrother: Yes, I think that's the problem. i.e. doing "sudo bash" and then echo $PATH shows /home/dave/... Doing "su" then echo $PATH shows /root |
| 21:16:38 | bluebrother | *gnah* |
| 21:16:48 | linuxstb | So we should ban sudo... |
| 21:16:53 | * | bluebrother sees another reason why he hates sudo |
| 21:16:58 | * | linuxstb too |
| 21:17:16 | Nico_P | kugel: sounds good to me |
| 21:17:39 | linuxstb | bluebrother: I wonder if it's possible to find out the real user id from an sudo process, and chown the file... It's a pain though. |
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| 21:18:41 | bluebrother | maybe we can check if rbutil was started with a proper login shell or not by comparing $HOME with the one in /etc/passwd ... *argh* |
| 21:19:17 | * | gevaerts hopes that bluebrother won't parse /etc/passwd as such |
| 21:19:56 | bluebrother | well, this attempt is kinda stupid. But how to work around this issue? |
| 21:20:03 | linuxstb | Is this not a problem on windows with "run as administrator"? |
| 21:20:09 | linuxstb | Or OS X... |
| 21:20:35 | bluebrother | In fact I don't *want* to work around this −− Qt is really nice in capsulating the configuration stuff, ... |
| 21:20:43 | gevaerts | bluebrother: sudo sets SUDO_USER, SUDO_UID, SUDO_GID and SUDO_COMMAND here |
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| 21:21:37 | linuxstb | But should we expect people to not use sudo? Even though we hate it, it's commonplace... |
| 21:21:52 | * | gevaerts doesn't like the fact that sudo -i also sets those |
| 21:21:59 | bluebrother | yeah, that's the bad thing about it |
| 21:22:11 | gevaerts | linuxstb: not *everyone* hates sudo... |
| 21:22:31 | linuxstb | gevaerts: I was talking to bluebrother ;) |
| 21:22:44 | * | gevaerts gets out :) |
| 21:23:44 | bluebrother | gevaerts: me hates it :) |
| 21:24:41 | kugel | Nico_P: "Fix two rare bugs which caused playback to not unboost. The filling state was not set properly, if there was no space left for the handle for albumart or audio data. but for the handle for metadata" <- this describes the problem OK? |
| 21:25:24 | gevaerts | c |
| 21:26:08 | Nico_P | kugel: maybe add a reference to FS #8999 |
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| 21:26:27 | Nico_P | other than that it seems good |
| 21:26:30 | kugel | I'm not sure if it fixes that |
| 21:26:37 | kugel | but I'll try to reproduce before committing |
| 21:26:45 | Nico_P | I think it should |
| 21:29:03 | Nico_P | hmm in 8999, finish_load_track doesn't get called at all IIRC :( |
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| 21:45:12 | kugel | Nico_P: is that easy to reproduce? |
| 21:45:23 | kugel | I can't (with my fix) |
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| 21:46:24 | Nico_P | not exactly easy, but it's ok |
| 21:46:46 | amiconn | linuxstb: Windows' "run as..." does a proper login |
| 21:48:23 | amiconn | linuxstb: Why would beastpatcher on windows require msvc, btw? Couldn't libmtp use libusb like it does on linx? |
| 21:48:27 | amiconn | *linux |
| 21:50:03 | linuxstb | In theory, but libusb on windows needs drivers installing (which apart from being an extra required step, can interfere with existing drivers). |
| 21:50:52 | linuxstb | I think jhMikeS managed to get the libmtp version of sendfirm working on Windows, but there was a lot of hassle. |
| 21:51:06 | amiconn | Well, we would only need a dummy driver, in case the device doesn't have a driver yet, iiuc |
| 21:51:38 | amiconn | And libusb seems to happily coexist with existing drivers, jusdging from my experiments with the ISD300 UDMA tool |
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| 21:52:29 | kugel | Nico_P: I could reproduce with SVN (well, the USB test build), but not with my fix applied. |
| 21:53:31 | linuxstb | amiconn: I think we would all be happy someone could make libmtp work happily on Windows - but no-one has managed so far. But I can't remember the exact issues. |
| 21:54:22 | Nico_P | kugel: nice :) |
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| 22:00 |
| 22:00:11 | linuxstb | amiconn: There is some discussion here (18:40 onwards) - http://www.rockbox.org/irc/rockbox-20080223.txt |
| 22:02:16 | kugel | Nico_P: no, my fix doesn't fix 8999 (I couldn't have explained how anyway) |
| 22:03:51 | kugel | Nico_P: but it possibly fixes at least the boosting part if 8999 (i.e. I can reproduce the buffering stop, but not the constant boost) |
| 22:04:22 | Nico_P | well, it's a start |
| 22:05:02 | kugel | but that would mean bufopen returns buffer full, even if the buffer is not full |
| 22:05:18 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) |
| 22:05:22 | kugel | anyway, I'm commiting, and add a reference too 8999 |
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| 22:12:51 | Nico_P | kugel: awesome :) |
| 22:13:32 | kugel | thanks :D This one was driving me crazy since the dataabort bug |
| 22:14:06 | Nico_P | was the fix for the data abort committed btw? |
| 22:14:30 | kugel | yep |
| 22:15:05 | kugel | http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=20081 |
| 22:15:27 | kugel | both bugs happened on the same playlist for me |
| 22:15:36 | Nico_P | I'm still waiting for feedback on FS #9935 |
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| 22:22:40 | kugel | Nico_P: I can't help you on that one. That's gevaerts business ;) |
| 22:23:03 | tessarakt | hmm, regarding your donations button: |
| 22:23:22 | tessarakt | would it be possible to provide a Euro zone bank account in addition to Paypal? |
| 22:23:27 | tessarakt | I don't like Paypal ... |
| 22:24:30 | bertrik | orsonj, are you hacking on your c200v2? |
| 22:25:07 | gevaerts | tessarakt: I guess you need to ask Zagor about that |
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| 22:35:18 | JdGordon | gevaerts: can rockbox do serial over usb as the host? |
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| 22:36:17 | | Quit blkhawk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:36:59 | gevaerts | JdGordon: no. (a) we haven't got a host driver at all yet, and (b) most targets don't support host anyway |
| 22:37:28 | JdGordon | is it somethiing which might be possible later on? |
| 22:37:36 | JdGordon | for those with host support obviously |
| 22:37:42 | gevaerts | Sure. It just needs work |
| 22:37:56 | * | gevaerts thinks he should get started on host support |
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| 22:38:16 | JdGordon | is it difficult? |
| 22:39:18 | linuxstb | gevaerts: Which targets can do host? |
| 22:39:27 | gevaerts | Depends. It's probably a lot easier for someone who is familiar with USB. Most targets that have host seem to have OHCI, which is well documented, so that part should be easy |
| 22:40:05 | | Quit balug_ ("Ex-Chat") |
| 22:41:49 | gevaerts | linuxstb: euro H300 and gigabeat F definitely (OHCI), x5 (maybe other iaudios as well?) have host but we don't know what sort (I wouldn't be surprised if it was also OHCI), beast (EHCI), portalplayer (EHCI, but I don't think any supported PP target has the necessary pins connected) |
| 22:42:33 | gevaerts | Possibly the meizus as well (same issue with the pins, and I'm not sure if they do OHCI, EHCI, or something else) |
| 22:43:01 | | Join Chesteta [0] (n=Chesteta@dyn53-149.res-hall.ndsu.NoDak.edu) |
| 22:45:18 | Chesteta | hey wondering if anyone around here is/has been working on the as3525; i have an e280v2 and some freetime... if anyone could help guide me to debugging mp3 playback causing a reboot let me know |
| 22:45:57 | kugel | Chesteta: I think getting logf working might get you somewhere |
| 22:46:12 | * | bluebrother now has a sudo workaround but kinda dislikes that |
| 22:46:33 | Chesteta | ok; i dont know much if anything about programming however would be glad to help with the debugging process |
| 22:46:56 | Chesteta | hopefully i would/will learn from the experience was the idea |
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| 22:47:35 | | Join Barahir [0] (n=jonathan@Zf3f2.z.pppool.de) |
| 22:47:39 | Chesteta | bluebrother: the sudo workaround works or sorta works? :) |
| 22:47:42 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@host-091-096-209-159.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:47:45 | | Quit tyfoo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:47:52 | linuxstb | bluebrother: What have you done? |
| 22:48:43 | bluebrother | linuxstb: checking if getuid() == 0 and SUDO_UID is set. If yes chown the settings file (fortunately Qt provides a method to retrieve the full filename) to the value present in SUDO_UID |
| 22:50:21 | | Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") |
| 22:50:31 | Chesteta | bluebrother: are you talking about the as3525 or something else [before i joined irc]? |
| 22:50:40 | bluebrother | though I kinda dislike to chown some file ... how can I ensure the user didn't set SUDO_UID to some arbitrary value? Ok, I'm checking for uid 0 first ... |
| 22:50:53 | gevaerts | I think that's reasonable. The only case I can see it "fail" with is people using sudo -i. Then $HOME is /root, and you're chowning a file there. I don't think it's important though as (a) that user has root access anyway, and (b) root can read and write the file anyway |
| 22:50:57 | bluebrother | Chesteta: I wasn't talking about any AMS chip |
| 22:51:03 | Chesteta | ok |
| 22:51:21 | Bagder | Chesteta: debugging is finding flaws and fixing the code. You can by definition not debug without knowing code and programming |
| 22:51:52 | gevaerts | bluebrother: exactly. If people have root access, they either have a root shell and if they fiddle with SUDO_UID they can't do more damage than they already could, and if they only have rbutil rights they can't fiddle with SUDO_UID |
| 22:52:05 | Chesteta | yea i hear ya; was just hoping to contribute some :) |
| 22:52:44 | bluebrother | http://pastebin.ca/1345272 |
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| 22:52:55 | NSplit | grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 22:54:59 | gevaerts | bluebrother: what will you do about su -c rbutil? |
| 22:55:49 | bluebrother | gevaerts: no idea ... I'm even not fully understanding what -c means from reading the man page :/ |
| 22:56:06 | gevaerts | bluebrother: try "su -c set" to see the effect |
| 22:56:37 | gevaerts | It has exactly the same issues as sudo, except you don't get a nice SUDO_UID to help you detect it |
| 22:57:07 | gevaerts | hm, no... |
| 22:57:09 | * | gevaerts lied |
| 22:57:17 | | Quit jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]") |
| 22:57:34 | gevaerts | Forget what I said. It resets HOME to /root |
| 22:58:58 | bluebrother | interesting. The man page describes sudo -c but my copy of sudo doesn't seem to support that. |
| 22:59:21 | | Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:59:33 | gevaerts | hm, not here |
| 23:00 |
| 23:01:07 | gevaerts | bluebrother: you could also just document the issues and tell people to run "sudo -H rbutilqt", then if they don't it's their own fault |
| 23:01:44 | orsonj | bertrik: I have managed to take apart both my c250v1 and my c240v2. I put rockbox on the c250v1, but it has issues with linux, (filesystem corruption whenever I put something on it using linux) |
| 23:02:04 | bluebrother | gevaerts: I bet this (telling) won't work. Especially when I think of all those "I clicked it" guys. |
| 23:02:28 | orsonj | I think the board on the c250 is cracked as the headphone jack only works when I put pressure on the side. |
| 23:03:02 | bertrik | orsonj, one experiment you can help with is to see if you can get the radio chip working on the v2 (or ams) version of the c200 |
| 23:03:54 | bertrik | orsonj, with some luck it's only a bad solder connection that you can possibly fix, a cracked board is nearly impossible to repair I think |
| 23:04:02 | orsonj | sure, I can test firmware on it for you. |
| 23:04:13 | | Quit Barahir_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:04:29 | | Quit MethoS-- (Connection timed out) |
| 23:04:50 | NHeal | grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 23:04:50 | NJoin | ChanServ [0] (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:04:50 | Mode | "#rockbox +o ChanServ " by irc.freenode.net |
| 23:04:52 | orsonj | It was a refurb for $15, so no biggie, but I might be able to jump the crack as it is only on the corner of the board and everything else works as far as I know. |
| 23:04:54 | | Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.1b3pre/20090222035035]") |
| 23:05:12 | gevaerts | bluebrother: true. You could of course just use getpwnam() to look up the real home directory, but if you do that you'll people who know about all this and set $HOME carefully. Those tend to come with torches and pitchforks :) |
| 23:05:34 | bertrik | orsonj, are you set up to compile rockbox from source? and did you already try to install the bootloader? |
| 23:06:20 | | Quit maddler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:06:40 | orsonj | the c240 was a $11 refurb, I tried to install the v1 load until I thought to check to see if it was a v2. Last thing I did was reformat it using its buildin format tool. |
| 23:06:44 | bluebrother | gevaerts: while I don't like the solution I start to become slightly in favor of the chmod solution :/ |
| 23:06:52 | orsonj | so, factory condition to be short |
| 23:07:19 | orsonj | I don't have any rockbox source/compilers setup |
| 23:07:20 | gevaerts | bluebrother: I think it's the only one that won't break the expectations of advanced users without breaking things for newbies |
| 23:07:58 | bluebrother | seems pretty much like this |
| 23:08:25 | * | gevaerts hates software that distrusts $HOME and makes sure by calling getpwnam() |
| 23:08:54 | bluebrother | well, I've done some small changes to the verify-configuration-thing so there are a few changes coming up. Too bad FS #9944 isn't clear enough to name the exact issue. |
| 23:12:18 | bertrik | orsonj, having the compilers makes it a lot easier to hack, but requires quite a bit of time on your side to set up |
| 23:12:26 | | Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") |
| 23:13:04 | bertrik | uh oh, now we can't say compiler anymore... ? |
| 23:13:05 | orsonj | I don't mind setting up the compilers, I'm on Ubuntu. Reading the dev guide on the wiki right now. |
| 23:13:19 | kugel | Nico_P: Wouldn't it be more logical to set the watermark when buffering is finished, instead of after every track? |
| 23:14:31 | | Quit MethoS- (No route to host) |
| 23:14:41 | * | bluebrother hates unclear tracker tasks |
| 23:15:52 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 23:16:27 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: I can provide all code with changes but that still doesn't remove the hassle of libUSB driver install and removal. |
| 23:17:45 | linuxstb | Reading the logs, you said you needed to remove the driver for Windows MTP to work? |
| 23:19:00 | jhMikeS | yes, installing libUSB for libMTP turns the beast into a libUSB device but this is needed for sendfirm to work. After that if you want Windows MTP back, you have to remove the driver while the beast is plugged and it will redetect it again as a normal MTP device. |
| 23:19:44 | | Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 23:19:50 | bluebrother | linuxstb: I have access to VS2005 (though no beast) in case that is helpful |
| 23:20:15 | jhMikeS | in any case it's an awful experience that I don't need to go through unless I trash the firmware partition, mess up the bootloader or whatever. |
| 23:20:27 | | Quit faemir (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 23:20:49 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: Have you tried the Windows sendfirm? |
| 23:20:50 | jhMikeS | isn't the free VS download still available? I have that one and downloaded it recently. |
| 23:21:10 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: It failed so I used mine again. Did I need something else installed? |
| 23:21:18 | kugel | Zagor: ping |
| 23:21:32 | bluebrother | you can get VS Express for free. I don't think that changed but you need to get the platform SDK separately |
| 23:21:35 | * | linuxstb wonders if anyone has succeeded with the Windows sendfirm, or if it's a myth... |
| 23:21:40 | Zagor | ponga-ponga! |
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| 23:21:56 | kugel | Wouldn't it be more logical to set the watermark when buffering is finished, instead of after every track? |
| 23:22:16 | linuxstb | bluebrother: It's more that we need someone willing to use vs2005 and do a little Windows development... |
| 23:22:22 | jhMikeS | bluebrother: yeah, I went and downloaded that too. it wasn't really a problem. |
| 23:22:26 | Zagor | kugel: absolutely |
| 23:22:41 | kugel | My last commit made filling to indicate end of buffering reliable, so I think it can be moved into there too |
| 23:22:55 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: Do you have Windows and your beast nearby? |
| 23:23:02 | linuxstb | (a dual-booting beast...) |
| 23:23:05 | kugel | also, how about showing the watermark in the buffering debug screen? |
| 23:23:26 | jhMikeS | yes |
| 23:23:47 | jhMikeS | It's not dual boot but I could make it so |
| 23:23:56 | Zagor | kugel: I remember looking into it before, and finding there were several conditions that could trigger end-of-buffering. that's why I didn't change that. |
| 23:23:58 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: Can you try out my windows build of "beastpatcher" ? Although if sendfirm didn't work, this probably won't... |
| 23:24:00 | bluebrother | linuxstb: I'm not afraid of using vs2005 but the w32api is a bitch, at least as far as I used it for rbutil development |
| 23:24:24 | bluebrother | though one _can_ get used to it. Some things are still simply stupid |
| 23:24:28 | Zagor | adding it to debug screen is fine, but that screen is already larger than some displays can show |
| 23:24:33 | kugel | Zagor: as long as they set filling to something other that STATE_FILLING, we're fine |
| 23:24:46 | * | bluebrother hands kugel a small LCD |
| 23:24:49 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: linuxstb.cream.org/rockbox/beastpatcher.exe">http://linuxstb.cream.org/rockbox/beastpatcher.exe - you need the MTP_DLL.dll file from utils/MTP/ |
| 23:25:01 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: I'll report the errors it gave (a big dialogue with some strange numbers) |
| 23:25:10 | kugel | well, I know it's too big for small screens |
| 23:25:11 | Zagor | kugel: ok, that sounds good then |
| 23:25:37 | kugel | but how does that make it improssible to show more info? It just lacks scrolling, I suppose |
| 23:26:13 | Zagor | it's not impossible. it just won't show on clip, for example |
| 23:26:23 | | Quit faemir (Client Quit) |
| 23:26:23 | * | jhMikeS just gets a DNS error :\ |
| 23:26:36 | | Part Anges |
| 23:27:18 | * | Bagder did another sansav2 => sansa ams raid in the wiki |
| 23:28:19 | kugel | Zagor: maybe we can turn it into a list (at least the non-bar stuff) |
| 23:28:26 | jhMikeS | it's ok now. I wonder what happened. ?? |
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| 23:30:16 | Zagor | kugel: good idea. I think the thread screen is a list already. |
| 23:30:23 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: It merges nk.bin with bootloader.bin or I still have to use mknkboot? |
| 23:30:43 | webguestington | ... howdy |
| 23:31:10 | webguestington | (quick question whenever anyone gets a moment.) |
| 23:31:19 | Bagder | webguestington: just ask |
| 23:31:41 | webguestington | k thx. How do I delete my entire database? |
| 23:31:43 | | Quit ChanServ (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 23:31:43 | NSplit | grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 23:32:03 | webguestington | i know it's dumb. please don't make fun of me :) |
| 23:32:38 | gevaerts | webguestington: remove all .tcd files from .rockbox/ |
| 23:32:51 | webguestington | Thanks! |
| 23:32:53 | NHeal | grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 23:32:53 | NJoin | ChanServ [0] (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:32:53 | Mode | "#rockbox +o ChanServ " by irc.freenode.net |
| 23:33:04 | webguestington | will i need to reinstall after? |
| 23:33:11 | tessarakt | umm |
| 23:33:19 | tessarakt | is there something wrong with the forum= |
| 23:33:20 | tessarakt | ? |
| 23:33:20 | gevaerts | no. That just deletes the database |
| 23:33:30 | webguestington | ok. appreciation much. |
| 23:33:40 | Zagor | tessarakt: looks fine to me |
| 23:33:40 | Bagder | tessarakt: no... |
| 23:33:42 | kadoban | tessarakt: it appears to be working fine here |
| 23:33:46 | tessarakt | umm |
| 23:33:48 | tessarakt | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.660 |
| 23:34:06 | tessarakt | I saw a post there complaining about posts missing after 2/20 |
| 23:34:13 | tessarakt | and then I reloaded, and that post was gone |
| 23:34:25 | bluebrother | maybe that post was deleted? |
| 23:34:28 | | Quit webguestington (Client Quit) |
| 23:34:48 | tessarakt | then I replied that indeed post seem to go missing |
| 23:34:55 | kugel | whats "audio_set_buffer_margin()" |
| 23:34:58 | tessarakt | and then that was deleted, too |
| 23:35:02 | gevaerts | tessarakt: there's this magic fairie going around that deletes all off-topic posts |
| 23:35:22 | tessarakt | I think there was some on-topic stuff over the weekend |
| 23:35:27 | kugel | the only other caller of set_filebuf_watermark |
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| 23:37:19 | Zagor | kugel: that's the "anti-skip buffer". i.e. how many seconds extra watermark to use. |
| 23:37:47 | kugel | ah, I see |
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| 23:39:36 | kugel | Zagor: shouldn't that be added to the watermark? |
| 23:39:39 | kugel | it doesn't seem to be |
| 23:40:09 | Zagor | yeah I just saw that too |
| 23:40:17 | kugel | in fact, it looks broken to me |
| 23:40:35 | kugel | nobody noticed, let's get rid of it :P |
| 23:40:36 | Zagor | the values are a bit strange. there should be a 0 first. |
| 23:40:51 | Zagor | and 600 seconds anti-skip is ... a lot |
| 23:44:53 | * | jhMikeS does't undstand why AMS datasheet say "confidential" even if they're online :\ |
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| 23:49:16 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: I've gotta reboot this machine before continuing. It's in a sad state. |
| 23:49:24 | | Quit intrados (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 23:50:50 | amiconn | Zagor: The anti-skip buffer values *should* start at 0, but the swcodec ones started with a wrong interpretation of anti-skip, and never got fixed |
| 23:50:57 | saratoga | i was hoping they'd put the 353x ams datasheets online but no |
| 23:51:02 | saratoga | just the ones we already have |
| 23:51:45 | saratoga | jhMikeS: I've had the v12 datasheet for a while, theres nothing much interesting changed |
| 23:51:58 | | Quit Chesteta (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 23:52:03 | saratoga | it turned up on google over the fall |
| 23:52:26 | jhMikeS | saratoga: Just error fixes? Also, you never asked them about the 353x ones? |
| 23:53:02 | jhMikeS | saratoga: from them or someone else just dumped out there? |
| 23:53:05 | | Quit intrados (Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:53:25 | saratoga | jhMikeS: I found it googling for AMS |
| 23:53:47 | saratoga | i never asked them about the 353x series, though i'm pretty sure they're in the rev2 AMS players |
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| 23:54:51 | | Quit jhMikeS ("rebuut") |
| 23:56:01 | bertrik | saratoga, why do you think so? |
| 23:56:13 | saratoga | they use ARMv5 chips from AMS |
| 23:56:17 | saratoga | and those are the only ones |
| 23:56:38 | kugel | amiconn: the anti-skip seems to be broken anyway |
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| 23:57:46 | | Quit BigBambi ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.") |
| 23:58:57 | saratoga | though AMS does claim 1/3 the power for the 353x series as the 252x, and the difference is smaller for the rev2 players so who knows |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).