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| 02:15:23 | perrikwp | linuxstb: ping |
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| 02:18:42 | perrikwp | Anyone here experts on the Gigabeat S install? |
| 02:19:47 | BigBambi | What's the issue? |
| 02:21:01 | perrikwp | I used the Windows beastpatcher and it works, except when I shutdown and start it back up it doesn't work |
| 02:21:17 | BigBambi | more info please |
| 02:22:24 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@ppp-70-243-32-116.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 02:24:20 | perrikwp | the rockbox bootloader is installed and rockbox boots after the beastpatcher quits, but after turning the Gigabeat off and turning it back on it asks to restore or update the firmware |
| 02:24:43 | BigBambi | single or dual-boot bootloader? |
| 02:24:54 | perrikwp | single bootloader |
| 02:25:59 | BigBambi | When was the bootloader built? |
| 02:28:49 | perrikwp | I just used the windows beastpatcher provided by linuxstb, I don't know when the bootloader inside it was built |
| 02:29:23 | | Join Beta2K [0] (i=1000@d36-124-26.home1.cgocable.net) |
| 02:29:29 | BigBambi | I'm wondering if the on-the-fly partition fixing is upsetting the OF |
| 02:29:45 | perrikwp | maybe I should try sendfirm instead? |
| 02:30:01 | Llorean | BigBambi: Wouldn't it upset the OF independent of bootloader version? It's in the main build too, right? |
| 02:30:18 | gevaerts | How could it? |
| 02:30:26 | Llorean | I can't imagine how it would |
| 02:30:32 | Llorean | Unless it failed to restore it, possibly |
| 02:30:40 | Llorean | Well, it's never written though, ignore that |
| 02:30:45 | BigBambi | Me neither, I'm just speculating |
| 02:31:10 | BigBambi | perrikwp: There is a older single bootloader (nk.bin) on the wiki that you can install with sendfirm and see if there is any difference |
| 02:31:55 | BigBambi | Llorean, gevaerts: I'm not blaming that at all - I just haven't seen this issue before and there have been some recent bootloader changes |
| 02:32:56 | perrikwp | ok, i'll try it, give me a sec to test it |
| 02:33:00 | BigBambi | Still, as you say, unless something changes the disk/partitioning/etc., the OF shouldn't care |
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| 03:08:03 | Unhelpful | there's a theory that newer beast flash does not like the single-boot bootloader. |
| 03:13:03 | perrikwp | ok I tried the older bootloader and sendfirm from the wiki and I have the same problem |
| 03:13:21 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 03:13:45 | perrikwp | so I should try making a dual-boot bootloader to see if that fixes the problem? |
| 03:16:39 | Unhelpful | perrikwp: it's solved *some* users' troubles with forced restores |
| 03:18:33 | | Quit Xerion (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:19:27 | jhMikeS | Unhelpful: Am I to understand now that some beasts force restore no matter single or dual? I haven't heard of this suggested until now. |
| 03:20:25 | Unhelpful | jhMikeS: no, the some is due to the fact that i never heard again from some of the problem cases that they had solved it, or how. dual may very well have worked for them. |
| 03:28:07 | perrikwp | ok I'm going to make a dual bootloader and see what happens |
| 03:29:56 | jhMikeS | Unhelpful: I guess I'll make a patch with a large word fill to create a big bootloader and ask someone to test to see if that makes any difference. |
| 03:30:33 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 03:31:56 | Unhelpful | is there a checksum that has to be correct, so that we can't just pad the "normal" bootloader binary with zeroes? |
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| 03:34:00 | jhMikeS | If we _have_ to, I suppose those fields would need an update from the beastpatcher. I wouldn't fill by default. I don't want to get ahead of myself but I don't know where else to start. |
| 03:39:13 | Unhelpful | so, *if* that works, beastpatcher would take an unpadded bootloader, and for "single-boot" installs, modify the checksum header fields as needed and pad the end with NULLs? |
| 03:44:15 | jhMikeS | I think. The bootloader is in that funky wince format that I'm not too familiar with. Of course I hope it's really that simple (maybe it wants something fancy). |
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| 03:55:10 | steve6446 | hi |
| 03:56:31 | Unhelpful | i can imagine that some format oddities might lead to trouble if the padding is not part of a defined section.... best test is to try it, i've been meaning to flash my beast up to 1.2 and play around with it, maybe tomorrow night. |
| 03:56:42 | steve6446 | i have a gigabeat f60 i just installed rockbox on it with the rockbox utility and my gigabeat keeps loading the original firmware is there a way to force it to load rockbox? |
| 03:57:36 | scorche|sh | if it keeps loading the original firmware, then the installation is not complete |
| 03:58:34 | steve6446 | it says its completed |
| 04:00 |
| 04:03:05 | jhMikeS | Unhelpful: I'm filling using the .lds so that shouldn't be a problem here |
| 04:05:26 | perrikwp | how do I use mknkboot? |
| 04:05:30 | jhMikeS | This will zero fill the bl to be about 12MB (like OF): jhmikes.cleansoap.org/gigabeat-s-padded-bootloader.patch">http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/gigabeat-s-padded-bootloader.patch |
| 04:06:20 | jhMikeS | If that works, I guess a binsearch would find a minimum size. |
| 04:07:51 | saratoga | perrikwp: theres instructions on the wiki |
| 04:08:01 | saratoga | oh sorry wrong program, never mind |
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| 04:09:09 | perrikwp | nevermind I found the instructions, thanks |
| 04:10:15 | Unhelpful | jhMikeS: thanks for the link, i'll try to get to it tomorrow |
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| 04:12:05 | jhMikeS | If I'm feeling less lazy, I'll try to see if that rom can't be dumped to find out _exactly_ what make it pass. |
| 04:12:32 | Unhelpful | it would be nice if we could get rb bootloader in ROM ;) |
| 04:12:40 | saratoga | can the ROM be patched easily? |
| 04:12:46 | saratoga | or is it complicated like on the F |
| 04:13:07 | jhMikeS | I really can't say at this point. I've not looked at that aspect yet. |
| 04:13:45 | jhMikeS | I'd love to have it as FAT32 all the way and no retailos at all...that would be nice. |
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| 04:22:40 | saratoga | or even just patch the OF bootloader to not touch the disk |
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| 04:27:49 | soap | anyone, saratoga in particular, did I really insult R.L. Horn on the user mailing list or not? |
| 04:27:55 | soap | Insulting was not my intent. |
| 04:28:41 | soap | I thought I went to great lengths to stress my uncertainty as to what was going on and that I was probing for more info. |
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| 04:29:08 | gartral | alright, i'm having a severe case of Stupid-User-Syndrome... i cant get rbutil to install rockbox from my ubuntu machine... |
| 04:29:23 | jhMikeS | saratoga: what was the complication of the F? IRAM works fine on the S. I recall the IRAM problem there making things difficult. |
| 04:29:35 | krazykit | gartral, on what player? some need root |
| 04:30:59 | saratoga | jhMikeS: its been possible to patch the F's firmware for a year or two now I think |
| 04:31:14 | saratoga | i think its just considered risky since you erase it and then write a new one |
| 04:31:56 | saratoga | soap: no I don't think you did |
| 04:32:09 | saratoga | I read his exchange yesterday and honestly had no idea what the hell he was talking about |
| 04:33:16 | gartral | krazykit: e250 v1 |
| 04:33:31 | krazykit | gartral, that's one of the ones that needs root permissions |
| 04:34:00 | gartral | oh... now i feel really dumb :\ |
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| 04:36:56 | perrikwp | Unhelpful: the dual-boot bootloader works, the Gigabeat S flash must not like the single bootloader |
| 04:37:40 | saratoga | perhaps the null padding idea will help with the single bootloader then |
| 04:38:15 | perrikwp | i'll try out that patch tomorrow to see if it helps |
| 04:38:22 | perrikwp | thanks for everyones help |
| 04:38:47 | gartral | krazykit: umm, it does NOT need root, the file needed to be labeled as an executable... |
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| 04:41:55 | jhMikeS | hopefully it won't need much padding or else it won't be much help anyway |
| 04:43:17 | jhMikeS | Unhelpful: this has info about the CE format http://www.xs4all.nl/~itsme/projects/xda/wince-flashfile-formats.html |
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| 05:20:42 | Nate3000 | Hello all. |
| 05:21:44 | Nate3000 | Is there a way on Mac OSX to keep iTunes from starting automatically? It's making it impossible to do anything to my iPod.. |
| 05:23:47 | saratoga | Nate3000: I'm sure there is, but you'll probably have more luck on an Apple channel |
| 05:24:44 | saratoga | is anyone around here familar with the codec interface? |
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| 08:29:30 | Rabbit^^ | I have a Sansa View (16GB) and rockbox does not appear to install on it. Have the people at Rockbox fixed this issue yet to anyone's knowledge? |
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| 11:50:28 | casainho | hello :-) |
| 11:51:04 | casainho | can someone explain me what means pcm_play_dma_get_peak_buffer() on audio target drivers? what is the intention? |
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| 12:00 |
| 12:02:09 | casainho | linuxstb: are you there? |
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| 12:16:13 | SmokeDog | herr0 |
| 12:16:15 | SmokeDog | anyone around? |
| 12:16:32 | SmokeDog | i have a real question that wasn't in the faq |
| 12:16:36 | SmokeDog | real quicks |
| 12:18:51 | SmokeDog | ok i'll just shoot anyways and idle here for a bit and hope someone will message me |
| 12:19:59 | SmokeDog | so umm.... loading rockbox on it puts a second "os" on an ipod at that point by flashing the firmware will you loose the tracks you have on there already or will it make a seperate bootable folder and run for there instead while still keeping the tracks you have on said ipod or do you have to reload all the songs on there after said install? |
| 12:20:35 | n1s | no you won't lose you're tracks |
| 12:20:46 | n1s | although a backup is always a good idea |
| 12:20:58 | n1s | s/you're/your |
| 12:23:36 | SmokeDog | thank you |
| 12:24:18 | SmokeDog | my buddy was whinning like a girl about it |
| 12:34:57 | SmokeDog | so my boy just tried downloading the install files |
| 12:35:12 | SmokeDog | (3:33:28 AM) ThaSkaMan1: http://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-ipodvideo/rockbox.zip |
| 12:35:12 | SmokeDog | (3:33:31 AM) ThaSkaMan1: fail |
| 12:35:12 | SmokeDog | (3:34:31 AM) ThaSkaMan1: http://download.rockbox.org/release/3.1/rockbox-ipodvideo-3.1.zip |
| 12:35:12 | DBUG | Sent KICK SmokeDog to server |
| 12:35:12 | SmokeDog | (3:34:35 AM) ThaSkaMan1: both are a fail |
| 12:35:12 | SmokeDog | (3:34:40 AM) ThaSkaMan1: no installs |
| 12:35:13 | Kick | (#rockbox SmokeDog :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@rockbox/bot/logbot |
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| 12:36:03 | krazykit | SmokeDog, please don't spam a bunch of lines like that. the problem must be on his end, as both links work for me |
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| 12:36:12 | SmokeDog | im sorry |
| 12:36:34 | SmokeDog | it's late |
| 12:37:14 | SmokeDog | u been here long krazykit ur nick looks familiar |
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| 12:43:55 | SmokeDog | not a bunch of talkers i see |
| 12:43:59 | SmokeDog | .... |
| 12:44:48 | krazykit | IRC doesn't mean Instant Reply Chat. It's still quite early in the US and many of the Europeans are still at work, so please have patience. in the meantime, you should take a look at the channel guidelines |
| 12:53:05 | SmokeDog | Boosh! well way to take the fun out of it all kit |
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| 12:53:43 | | Join PaulJam [0] (n=Paule@p54BEBD7D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:54:10 | linuxstb | SmokeDog: If you want to chat, there is #rockbox-community - we try to keep this channel on-topic and relatively serious (it's logged). |
| 12:55:27 | | Join markun [50] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun) |
| 12:55:36 | SmokeDog | thank you for helping me out earlier my question was answered |
| 12:58:00 | | Quit {phoenix} (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:58:14 | PaulJam | is there a special reason why there is no resume support for ALAC? seeking seems to work fine. |
| 12:58:31 | | Join {phoenix} [0] (n=dirk@p54B45E68.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:58:52 | casainho | linuxstb: can you explain me what means pcm_play_dma_get_peak_buffer() on audio target drivers? what is the intention? |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:22 | PaulJam | btw, i noticed that for AAC and ALAC the WPS always shows them as cbr even though i'm almost sure they are vbr. |
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| 13:03:07 | | Part domonoky |
| 13:04:11 | | Join HackyKid [0] (n=HackyKid@86.85.232.104) |
| 13:11:51 | linuxstb | PaulJam: ALAC is definitely always VBR. I would expect CBR AAC to exist though. But yes, it does sound like a bug. |
| 13:12:06 | linuxstb | casainho: No. |
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| 13:29:44 | robin0800 | Sansa C240 won't connect in ubuntu alpha5 sys log sayes http://paste.ubuntu.com/124707/ rockbox or alpha5 bug? |
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| 14:36:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 15:05:38 | Alex00088 | can I put comments into my .cfg files, by simply appending a "#" symbol to a line? If not - is there a way to add comments? |
| 15:05:51 | Alex00088 | *prepend |
| 15:06:56 | Llorean | You could've tested in about as long as it took you to ask. ;) |
| 15:07:35 | Alex00088 | ok. thanks! |
| 15:07:44 | | Quit Alex00088 (Client Quit) |
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| 15:55:09 | | Join funman [0] (i=500de41d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0ed5e6652d401ef5) |
| 15:55:27 | funman | hello |
| 15:58:08 | | Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 15:59:04 | funman | i'm glad to see some progress on sansav2 , i want to help on >2GB models |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:25 | funman | on the web i can find a 4GB Fuze at 95€, delivered |
| 16:00:54 | funman | offers for the clip seem to stop at 2GB (so, not interesting since the whole 2GB are accessible) |
| 16:01:34 | funman | i can find 4GB but only in the US, and I expect more important shipping price |
| 16:02:06 | | Quit SirFunk_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:02:36 | funman | IIRC lambdacalculus has bought a bunch of clips, is he the one? |
| 16:02:55 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@dyndsl-085-016-164-227.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 16:03:02 | moos | funman: salut, maybe see with Zagor/Bagder and the rockbox's fund it could help you.... |
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| 16:03:31 | | Quit Horscht (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:04:06 | funman | moos: merci, perhaps i'm not coming at the right time, but it's difficult here :/ I think I'll use good old email |
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| 16:10:47 | kugel | funman: hi |
| 16:12:47 | funman | kugel: hi! nice work on v2 ; |
| 16:12:49 | funman | ;) |
| 16:13:40 | bluebrother | funman: have you checked amazon? I've seen a Fuze 8G at 70EUR |
| 16:13:45 | kugel | funman: actually, I'm more concerned about the dcache and mmu, not so about the >2GB problem |
| 16:14:28 | kugel | our ams sansas are utterly slow, because those aren't active |
| 16:15:08 | funman | bluebrother: i only found v2 on amazon in $ (i used google) |
| 16:15:42 | bluebrother | I looked at amazon directly −− http://www.amazon.fr/Sandisk-Lecteur-audio-video-microSD/dp/B0019JOD68/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1235920365&sr=8-1 |
| 16:16:27 | funman | bluebrother: hm nice .. |
| 16:16:27 | | Quit MethoS-- (Connection timed out) |
| 16:17:31 | funman | kugel: see system_init() : icache and dcache should be active |
| 16:17:51 | funman | and mmu inactive, but i think we don't need memory management? |
| 16:18:06 | | Quit stoffel (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 16:18:10 | kugel | funman: the mmu is inactive. And thus the dcache is inactive |
| 16:19:27 | funman | oh |
| 16:19:43 | funman | look at the arm922 technical manual for the cp15 registers |
| 16:19:56 | funman | see you |
| 16:19:57 | kugel | I did |
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| 16:29:28 | | Join Rabbit^^ [0] (n=Rabbit^^@72-24-220-205.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 16:30:16 | Rabbit^^ | Does anyone know if Rockbox works on Sansa View? I am also running Windows Vista. |
| 16:30:49 | bluebrother | Rockbox runs on the players listed on the frontpage. That list does not include the view |
| 16:31:40 | bluebrother | There's even a "Status" link |
| 16:32:20 | Rabbit^^ | Does anyone know of ANY FREE software that would enable bookmarking of MP3 files on the View? |
| 16:36:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 16:47:50 | | Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") |
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| 16:55:51 | linuxstb | Rabbit^^: You can't just "enable bookmarking" on the View. You either need to ask Sandisk to implement it in their firmware, or hope that an interested/skilled View owner ports Rockbox (or another alternative firmware, but I'm not aware of any likely candidates apart from Rockbox) to run on the View. |
| 16:57:06 | Rabbit^^ | Thank you. |
| 17:00 |
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| 17:11:38 | robin0800 | can anyone comment on why jaunty alpha5 wont see my c240 no error message just http://paste.ubuntu.com/124707/ rockbox usb or alpha5 problem? |
| 17:11:41 | Unhelpful | i've made a first test, with a "normal" bootloader. i can't duplicate the reset-loop problem, mine just hangs with the gigabeat boot logo, but no progress bar. dual-boot works. about to try the padded single-boot. |
| 17:11:47 | | Join PaulJam [0] (n=Paule@p54BEFB80.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:12:50 | | Join gartral [0] (n=gareth@adsl-75-33-91-251.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:12:53 | linuxstb | robin0800: Have you tried to narrow it down yourself? i.e. try the OF in alpha5, and Rockbox in other operating systems? |
| 17:13:01 | | Join PaulJam_ [0] (n=Paule@p54BEFB80.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:14:14 | gartral | hmm, after starting to use the linux rbutil to update my bootloaderm rb itself comes up as "r20098:20153M-090301" |
| 17:14:42 | gartral | s// bootloaderm/bootloader, |
| 17:15:23 | linuxstb | What do you mean? The bootloader shows that version number, or Rockbox itself does? If the latter, then that's nothing to do with the bootloader. |
| 17:16:21 | gartral | linuxstb: the latter, and i should be more specific, after i gave rbutil root, to install the bootloader and update rockbox, sorry |
| 17:18:16 | BigBambi | and so it has? |
| 17:19:18 | * | gevaerts doesn't really see any question here |
| 17:19:29 | * | BigBambi neither |
| 17:19:39 | BigBambi | You updated Rockbox and Rockbox has been updated... |
| 17:19:40 | gartral | how do i return it to a normal build? |
| 17:19:51 | BigBambi | ? |
| 17:19:55 | linuxstb | Install a normal build. |
| 17:20:12 | BigBambi | What do you mean by "normal build"? |
| 17:20:15 | gartral | but it says "M" at the end of the build string, wich looks like a combined build string! |
| 17:20:31 | BigBambi | M means modofied |
| 17:20:37 | gartral | i know that |
| 17:20:46 | BigBambi | But for some reason "normal" builds sometimes have it too |
| 17:20:49 | robin0800 | linuxstb: yes windows ok of ok on alpha5 all outher usb products ok in alpha5 just rockbox so far |
| 17:21:08 | gartral | i also know i shouldn't see it at the end of a build string that was from a build installed with rbutil |
| 17:21:26 | gevaerts | That's the first time you say that... |
| 17:21:31 | BigBambi | see what I just said |
| 17:21:55 | gartral | ok... so i'm panicking for nothing? |
| 17:22:05 | linuxstb | gartral: So your question is "Why does one of the Rockbox builds on the build server have the version string r20098:20153M-090301" ? |
| 17:22:38 | | Join CaptainKewl [0] (i=jds@207-237-172-77.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 17:23:11 | gartral | yea, if you all see it too, if not, then it's "why the heck is my comp giving me a weird glitch, and should i worry about this?" |
| 17:24:07 | BigBambi | How on earth could your computer cause it? |
| 17:24:15 | * | BigBambi decides to be more simple |
| 17:24:21 | BigBambi | gartral: No, don't worry |
| 17:24:38 | Unhelpful | gartral: your computer can not have modified the version string in that fashion by accident. |
| 17:25:40 | gartral | cause in the past, iv'e been knopwn too do stupid things to my computer that leave it in a half functioning state without reliseing it, and nearly crashed an entire NAS server once.... |
| 17:26:08 | gartral | but it was my one fault, non the less |
| 17:26:59 | gartral | back to point: theres no problem and i still have an "official build", right? |
| 17:27:14 | gevaerts | What target is this? |
| 17:27:18 | BigBambi | YES |
| 17:27:46 | gartral | e250, the only one i own |
| 17:27:53 | linuxstb | gartral: Did you select "current build" in rbutil? |
| 17:27:58 | | Quit J-23 ("ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net") |
| 17:28:00 | gartral | yes |
| 17:28:04 | gevaerts | gartral: look at http://build.rockbox.org/. There's some anomaly today for e200... |
| 17:28:06 | Unhelpful | jhMikeS: the beast did something that looked very much like updating the flash after i ran the updater, with a couple of reboots that displayed a progress bar and a "don't reset the player" message that i've never seen before... but i must still not have the "bad" flash, because i can boot a perfectly normal single-boot nk.bin, once i stop mistakenly sending the bootloader.bin instead. |
| 17:28:55 | | Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]") |
| 17:30:16 | * | linuxstb wonders who runs debussy.pauken.co.uk |
| 17:30:37 | rasher | GodEater manages it, iirc |
| 17:31:23 | linuxstb | gartral: If I was you, I would install the latest daily build |
| 17:31:57 | gartral | that is what i have installed, according rbutil |
| 17:32:32 | | Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:33:51 | gevaerts | Possibly, but not according to what you said here |
| 17:34:40 | gartral | ok, lemme see here |
| 17:35:37 | gartral | r20098:20153M-090301 no change after manual unzip... |
| 17:36:33 | gevaerts | After manual unzip of *what*? |
| 17:37:02 | gartral | the rockbox.zip of the current builds page |
| 17:37:22 | * | gevaerts gives up |
| 17:37:26 | rasher | I'd *guess* it's related to http://build.rockbox.org/ showing r20098 for some targets, but I think we need Bagder to figure out what's going on |
| 17:39:13 | rasher | We basically have no way of knowing what that build is. Could be any mix of r20098 and r20153 code |
| 17:40:10 | gartral | well, it has stable USB... |
| 17:40:21 | BigBambi | gartral: daily and current are two different words |
| 17:40:38 | gartral | oh |
| 17:40:58 | * | gartral learns to read farther back than one page! |
| 17:40:59 | soap | Why do we even offer "daily" builds? To aid in binary searches? |
| 17:41:35 | | Join J-23 [0] (n=zelazko@unix.net.pl) |
| 17:41:44 | BigBambi | + if the current i broken (less important now there are releases) |
| 17:42:17 | gevaerts | soap: just for cases like this where the current build is doubtful |
| 17:42:27 | soap | It is not like gartral's problem is an uncommon one. Considering "support" is only offered for the (most recent) current build or releases then that also removes use for "daily" builds. |
| 17:42:40 | soap | Then cache 2, 3, 4 "current" builds. |
| 17:42:55 | amiconn | Hmm. Is there a reason why credits.pl resides in apps/plugins/ ? |
| 17:42:59 | soap | instead of daily ones. |
| 17:43:40 | gartral | amiconn: because the credits.rock plugin is a plugin |
| 17:43:41 | gartral | '? |
| 17:43:56 | amiconn | All other build scripts reside in tools/ |
| 17:44:18 | Llorean | soap: They're usually called "archived" builds in most cases. |
| 17:44:58 | Llorean | They have been useful to give someone an easy way to roll back if a single or a couple SVN revisions are bad. |
| 17:45:03 | gartral | lazy programmer? |
| 17:45:25 | BigBambi | gartral: Please stop making random unhelpful suggestions |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:01:16 | | Part gartral |
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| 18:06:23 | | Quit PaulJam_ (".") |
| 18:14:04 | | Join saratogahome [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0d2787e98c7732b2) |
| 18:14:34 | saratogahome | does rbutil install the latest bootloader from SVN, or an archieved stable one? |
| 18:15:14 | Llorean | Archived stable. |
| 18:16:02 | saratogahome | Llorean: any idea how old it is? |
| 18:16:48 | saratogahome | I suppose if someone get "Version: r20108-090226" printed from the bootloader, they've not used rbutil? |
| 18:17:09 | Llorean | That means they've updated to the test bootloaders on the tracker, I'd assume |
| 18:17:12 | | Join gromit`` [0] (n=gromit@ALagny-154-1-75-50.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:17:49 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:17:58 | saratogahome | does the test version of rbutil install that bootloader or only the tracker? |
| 18:18:05 | Llorean | Only the tracker |
| 18:18:09 | Llorean | You need to use target-specific tools |
| 18:18:29 | kugel | Any last objection against the sorting patch? I'm committing in a few minutes |
| 18:18:33 | Llorean | RButil *should* download bootloaders from download.rockbox.org as far as I know, so that a new version of the Util isn't needed with new bootloaders. |
| 18:18:49 | Llorean | kugel: The version on the tracker? |
| 18:19:30 | linuxstb | kugel: What are the strings displayed in the settings menu, and what are the strings saved to the .cfg ? |
| 18:20:26 | kugel | linuxstb: "sort interpret number", "digit,numbers" in the cfg |
| 18:21:01 | kugel | Llorean's most recent suggestion in the settings menu |
| 18:21:42 | linuxstb | You couldn't just say what that was? |
| 18:21:47 | * | linuxstb goes-a-searching |
| 18:22:12 | kugel | linuxstb: "Interpret numbers while sorting", with the options "As digits" and "As whole numbers" |
| 18:23:08 | * | gevaerts doesn't immediately see what those mean |
| 18:23:12 | | Join ShyK [0] (i=Shy@80.74.125.61) |
| 18:23:33 | kugel | gevaerts: it describes perfectly what it does |
| 18:23:36 | Llorean | gevaerts: It's better than "Recognize numbers while sorting" with the options "true" and "false" |
| 18:24:03 | linuxstb | Shouldn't that be "whilst sorting" ? |
| 18:24:12 | gevaerts | kugel: I agree, but I have to read it several times to see it |
| 18:24:17 | Llorean | gevaerts: If the algorithm works like the sample seems to suggest, it recognizes all series of digits as a "number" rather than as a string of digits, so it's pretty descriptive. |
| 18:24:28 | Llorean | A better name is always welcome, though. :) |
| 18:24:35 | gevaerts | I know :) |
| 18:24:40 | * | gevaerts decides to keep out of this |
| 18:24:59 | kugel | but we cannot agree on a name. Also, the manual will cover this |
| 18:25:07 | BigBambi | kugel: whilst not while I think |
| 18:25:14 | kugel | ok |
| 18:25:22 | Llorean | I've never even seen "whilst" used. |
| 18:25:24 | * | kugel thought while == whilst |
| 18:25:27 | gevaerts | kugel: if you find more than two people who like a name, you're doing well and you should commit :) |
| 18:25:34 | linuxstb | Llorean: I think it's another British thing... |
| 18:25:48 | BigBambi | kugel: they mean the same thing, it is a grammar difference |
| 18:26:45 | BigBambi | Llorean: It is used over here for sure, I don't know if the States has dropped it |
| 18:27:14 | Llorean | We could replace it with "during" so that it doesn't seem weird to either type of English speaker. |
| 18:27:28 | linuxstb | Or "when" ? |
| 18:27:32 | Llorean | Or "when" yes. |
| 18:27:35 | gevaerts | during looks really wrong to me |
| 18:27:40 | BigBambi | or when |
| 18:27:43 | BigBambi | hehe, damn lag |
| 18:27:51 | BigBambi | I prefer when to during |
| 18:27:54 | Llorean | I do too |
| 18:28:06 | * | gevaerts jouns in the when-admiration |
| 18:28:11 | gevaerts | *joins |
| 18:28:16 | BigBambi | OK, when |
| 18:29:03 | kugel | so, during or when or whilst? |
| 18:29:05 | * | linuxstb can't remember a setting name ever having so much effort spent on it before... |
| 18:29:10 | linuxstb | kugel: when |
| 18:29:12 | * | kugel neither |
| 18:29:18 | gevaerts | kugel: when oir whilst |
| 18:29:40 | ShyK | to anyone developing or considering support for Musepack SV8: the format is finalized. we'll release it officially on the site today. changeset 435 is final/stable. http://trac.musepack.net/trac/ |
| 18:30:10 | * | rasher prods preglow |
| 18:30:10 | | Quit Darksair ("Use the Force, Luke!") |
| 18:30:25 | kugel | gevaerts: not a helpful answer (/me picked when now) |
| 18:30:38 | saratogahome | ShyK: we'd like SV8 support, but I think the person to talk to is Buschel |
| 18:30:54 | Seed | saratogahome: then Shy and I will talk to him |
| 18:31:27 | Seed | saratogahome: seen him on this channel lately? |
| 18:31:32 | | Join PaulJam [0] (n=PaulJam_@p54BEBC79.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:32:04 | saratogahome | Seed: i've seen him around lately, but he tends to pop in and out |
| 18:32:15 | saratogahome | how big are the SV8 changes verses SV7? |
| 18:32:36 | ShyK | pretty huge |
| 18:32:50 | ShyK | in a good way |
| 18:32:57 | Seed | in terms of code, it's not a big deal to adapt.. it's documented very well.. in terms of stability/resilience, a lot |
| 18:32:57 | saratogahome | is there a reference fixed point decoder? |
| 18:33:07 | | Quit Rabbit^^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:33:30 | ShyK | saratogahome: yes. can be compiled in fixed-point mode. |
| 18:34:39 | rasher | Do you have any ideas about the optimisations that have been done for Rockbox? (asm for coldfire and arm) |
| 18:35:05 | ShyK | Buschmann is the only one who knows them in depth, i think |
| 18:35:46 | ShyK | psymodel-wise, encoding-wise, there is no difference, so there should be no problem |
| 18:35:58 | ShyK | the changes are mainly stream related |
| 18:36:08 | saratogahome | we mostly only care about the decoder here |
| 18:36:14 | ShyK | encoding/decoding, that is |
| 18:36:21 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:36:22 | saratogahome | so what matters is if you've changed the bitstream or the inverse filterbanks |
| 18:36:23 | | Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:36:55 | ShyK | the bitstream is changed, filterbanks are not |
| 18:39:40 | kugel | "Warning: DWIDTH spec > max FONTBOUNDINGBOX" |
| 18:41:47 | saratogahome | did anyone offer to send fuman a Sansa? |
| 18:42:40 | rasher | I find it likely that the fund could fund one |
| 18:42:46 | rasher | If no one else does |
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| 18:43:10 | saratogahome | I was just going to offer to send him my Fuze |
| 18:43:39 | saratogahome | i've still got a clip anyway |
| 18:43:47 | kugel | I think we/he should ask Zagor, I think he doesn't really use it or hack on it |
| 18:44:15 | kugel | saratogahome: is your fuze still functional? |
| 18:44:18 | fml | kugel: that warning is also a remnant of not quite clean implementation of convbdf. But it's harmless. |
| 18:47:12 | saratogahome | kugel: yeah it works |
| 18:47:32 | saratogahome | but i've been pretty useless anyway, so funman might as well have it |
| 18:47:40 | saratogahome | and i've still got the clip |
| 18:48:27 | linuxstb | saratogahome: What capacity is it? |
| 18:48:47 | * | linuxstb reads the email... |
| 18:49:10 | * | kugel bets his commit message will be controversial too |
| 18:49:24 | linuxstb | kugel: Then change it... |
| 18:51:06 | saratogahome | linuxstb: only a 2GB, so probably no good for funman |
| 18:51:19 | saratogahome | hopefully someone will step up wtih a 4GB one for him though |
| 18:51:23 | | Quit Xerion (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:51:32 | saratogahome | honestly if the guy has free time, we should send him as many AMS players as he'll take |
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| 18:52:10 | kugel | saratogahome: I tought you experienced the >2GB problem too? |
| 18:52:19 | linuxstb | saratogahome: I was talking about the Fuze (I know that wasn't clear). |
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| 18:52:35 | saratogahome | ah yeah, its an 8GB |
| 18:52:48 | | Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:52:51 | kugel | ah yea, now the email comes in |
| 18:52:55 | saratogahome | and it definately has the flash problem, so it should be fine for that purpose, though i think funman was most interested in teh clip |
| 18:53:00 | webguest07 | Could fs#9709 please be closed? I like the Keven's translations much better than my own. |
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| 18:55:16 | linuxstb | webguest07: You're Harry Tu/bookshare/countrymonkey ? |
| 18:58:09 | webguest07 | yes. |
| 18:58:34 | webguest07 | and? |
| 18:59:23 | gevaerts | webguest07: well, if someone says "His translations are better than mine", it's helpful to know *who* says it... |
| 18:59:25 | linuxstb | Having one identity is helpful, especially if you're asking for one of your patches to be closed. |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:35 | webguest07 | yes, I did the translations. |
| 19:00:52 | webguest07 | It'd also help if his stuff was committed, but... |
| 19:01:13 | webguest07 | alright, I'll go as bookshare from now on. |
| 19:03:52 | fml | what is the make target to build the fonts? |
| 19:10:00 | linuxstb | fml: I'm not sure if there is - maybe it's part of buildzip.pl |
| 19:10:37 | fml | linuxstb: I'll search for convbdf in make files |
| 19:11:23 | Llorean | linuxstb: Is there "make fontzip"? |
| 19:11:24 | linuxstb | fml: I've just checked - convbdf is called from buildzip.pl |
| 19:11:33 | Llorean | I can't remember if that exists or if it's just something someone suggested once. |
| 19:11:34 | linuxstb | i.e. not directly by any Makefile |
| 19:11:37 | * | kugel is happy now |
| 19:11:46 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 19:12:08 | kadoban | yeah, fontzip exists |
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| 19:17:05 | fml | linuxstb: ah, thanks! Is it called after the main build process (make) has been run? I.e. there is no chance for the font warnings to be displayed in the build table, right (even if they wouldn't be ignored)? |
| 19:19:09 | linuxstb | It will be called as part of "make fullzip" - I expect the build table builds are just a "make zip". |
| 19:19:25 | linuxstb | Although some fonts are made then... |
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| 19:20:58 | kugel | would anyone volunteer for the manual work of the sorting patch? |
| 19:21:03 | linuxstb | There are other things it would be useful to build automatically as well - things like tools/database/ and checkwps. |
| 19:21:38 | fml | linuxstb: ok. I think I should talk to someone who anderstands the process of creation of the build table. Do we want to see the font warnings in there? |
| 19:21:47 | Llorean | kugel: Generally you should try to do the manual work before you commit, so they can go in together. |
| 19:22:28 | kugel | Hm, I prefer the manual work in a seperate commit, that's how I did it before too. Is there a guideline about this? |
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| 19:22:55 | linuxstb | fml: I think the problem is that making the builds do a "make fullzip" would slow down the build process (larger zips to copy back to the server). But what can cause font warnings? |
| 19:23:11 | Llorean | kugel: "together" doesn't mean same commit, you could do the manual work and commit it immediately before or afte.r |
| 19:23:13 | linuxstb | i.e. is it only when a bad font is committed? Or can other things accidentally break them? |
| 19:23:20 | kugel | I mean, I'd gladly do it myself. But a) I don't have the manual toolchain, b) I'm not a native English speaker |
| 19:23:49 | Llorean | kugel: The idea though is not to have features sitting around waiting for someone to document them, because it generally means the manual just gets less and less correct. |
| 19:24:41 | Llorean | For example, if you're worried about your English you could post the text of the proposed manual entry to -dev so people can comment on it and help tidy it up. |
| 19:24:49 | kugel | I know the idea. But I always have the manual and don't wait for someone |
| 19:24:52 | fml | linuxstb: warning can be caused by wrong font metrics or by the way Rockbox handles them (see my last comment in FS #9931) −− we have some such fonts in SVN |
| 19:25:09 | Llorean | kugel: I don't understand that sentence. What do you mean? |
| 19:25:21 | kugel | I just ask if someone volunteers. If nobody does, I'll do it right now |
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| 19:26:11 | kugel | BigBambi maybe? :) |
| 19:26:12 | linuxstb | fml: But the only thing that can add a new warning (or error) is a change to convbdf.c or one of the font files? |
| 19:26:13 | | Quit bookshare (Client Quit) |
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| 19:26:34 | fml | linuxstb: I think yes. |
| 19:26:39 | Llorean | kugel: I was just suggesting that next time you wait another day or another few hours to write the manual patch as well. That way if *you* get busy and have to stop writing it, it doesn't mean we have a new feature sitting in SVN without a manual description. |
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| 19:27:14 | linuxstb | fml: Then I don't think we need automated checking - a single test build (as we don't have target-specific fonts) is enough for a committer to confirm it's OK. |
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| 19:28:11 | fml | linuxstb: and a change to convbdf can be caused by a change in Rockbox's core (convbdf should be honest and accurately tell what problems might occur with valid fonts if they are used in RB) :-) It's a chain reaction. |
| 19:28:21 | linuxstb | fml: It sounds more like something for a separate webpage (possibly automated - like rasher's .lang file pages) listing current fonts with problems that need fixing. |
| 19:28:38 | kugel | oh, I have the toolchain |
| 19:28:40 | linuxstb | fml: How can a change in Rockbox's core change convbdf? Does it share code? |
| 19:28:49 | fml | linuxstb: yes, that's reasonable |
| 19:29:32 | linuxstb | Maybe rasher could even be tempted to do it - it would fit into his site... |
| 19:29:37 | fml | linuxstb: suppose we'd extended the capability of RB's rendering engine. Then some warnings should disappear. |
| 19:29:56 | rasher | linuxstb: I might. I expect this doesn't need to be updated terribly often? |
| 19:30:00 | linuxstb | fml: Yes, but that would be a human making a change to convbdf.c? |
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| 19:30:23 | fml | linuxstb: yes, of course. Sorry, I wasn't clear enough |
| 19:30:30 | linuxstb | rasher: A daily cronjob would seem sufficient. |
| 19:30:58 | fml | rasher: BTW, cyrillic glyphs are now a part of 12-Adobe-Helvetica |
| 19:31:18 | rasher | fml: I'll see about updating the fontstats page. I don't quite remember what that involves... |
| 19:31:59 | fml | rasher: me too (I've never known it :-) |
| 19:32:44 | rasher | Looks like I've got it automated.. hang on |
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| 19:34:40 | fml | kugel: I find the symbol names a bit misleading (I'd insert "NUM" in the middle) |
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| 19:35:48 | fml | rasher, linuxstb: would you agree with clipping glyphs that can't be rendered by RB? |
| 19:36:33 | * | rasher doesn't know much about font rendering, but it sounds better than not including it at all |
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| 19:39:10 | * | rasher uploads pngs and other stuff |
| 19:39:26 | linuxstb | fml: I haven't been following the discussion. What does Rockbox do at the moment with such glyphs? |
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| 19:40:39 | fml | linuxstb: the way rockbox handles them hasn't changed at all. Just convbdf generates "bad" glyphs (with some seemingly random bits at the edges) −− see screenshots in FS #9931 |
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| 19:41:49 | fml | linuxstb: and convbdf generates them like this because RB couldn't handle them in the correct way (i.e. how they are supposed to be handled by full size rendering engines) |
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| 19:42:31 | linuxstb | fml: OK, so the problem is that some fonts have glyphs designed to be taller than the "font height" ? |
| 19:43:16 | fml | linuxstb: yes |
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| 19:44:21 | linuxstb | Is this common? Sounds odd to me.. |
| 19:44:39 | linuxstb | i.e. it will overwrite text above or below it... |
| 19:44:48 | linuxstb | s/will/can/ |
| 19:44:50 | fml | linuxstb: it happens (as it seems to me) with some accented glyphs |
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| 19:45:32 | fml | linuxstb: yes, that would happen. But RB can't do this hence the best option we have is to clip |
| 19:45:49 | rasher | Is this valid? |
| 19:46:17 | fml | rasher: another option would be to reject such fonts |
| 19:46:40 | rasher | I think clipping is fine, just curious |
| 19:46:41 | fml | I.e. convbdf would issue an error message and quit |
| 19:46:49 | Llorean | rasher: According to what I've read FONT_ASCENT is just intended for spacing, and glyphs are allowed to extend beyond it. |
| 19:47:04 | linuxstb | fml: Do you know how many svn fonts that would reject? |
| 19:47:19 | fml | Llorean: yes, that's how I understand it now |
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| 19:47:50 | linuxstb | That doesn't seem useful for Rockbox - where we display lines with no line-spacing. |
| 19:48:22 | fml | linuxstb: not exactly. But > 1 :-) Some might be easy to correct (I've done this) because it's just a copy-paste error for one or two glyphs. But in others it's systematic |
| 19:48:38 | kugel | is this good? |
| 19:48:40 | kugel | http://pastie.org/403915 |
| 19:49:00 | linuxstb | It just seems to be saying "most glyphs are this height, but some are bigger", whereas we need to know the height of the biggest. |
| 19:49:04 | Llorean | kugel: I'd avoid the word "intuitive" as it means different things for different people |
| 19:49:40 | rasher | "at the beginning or within filenames" => "in filenames" |
| 19:50:10 | Llorean | enables a sorting algorithm which is able to interpret series of digits at the beginning or within filenames as whole numbers and allows the files to be sorted based on their value rather than comparing one digit at a time. \setting{As digit} disables this algorithm, so that each digit is compared seperately. |
| 19:50:11 | fml | kugel: I'd also avoid the word "algorithm" |
| 19:50:19 | linuxstb | kugel: I would refer to this being the default way Windows Explorer and OS X Finder sort things, and provide some examples. |
| 19:50:32 | linuxstb | i.e. choose 3 or 4 names, and show them sorted in the two ways. |
| 19:50:37 | rasher | And Nautilus! |
| 19:51:38 | fml | linuxstb: the settings (ascent, descent) define (a) the distance between two base lines and (b) how glyphs should be placed on a line |
| 19:52:09 | kugel | rasher: well, nautilus has some more extras w.r.t to sortin |
| 19:52:44 | linuxstb | fml: Maybe we're simply calculating "font_height" wrongly? i.e. using the distance between two base lines, whereas we should be using "distance between top of highest glyph and bottom of lowest glyph". |
| 19:52:44 | rasher | kugel: Like what? It does use natsort. |
| 19:53:12 | rasher | linuxstb: That might be smarter, given Rockbox' font renderer |
| 19:53:33 | Llorean | linuxstb: FONT_ASCENT and FONT_DESCENT are supposedly intended to be used for spacing, but we may want to use a calculated absolute height instead so that we can show and scroll full accent marks. |
| 19:53:39 | kugel | rasher: ignores leading dots and underscores, _ and - within filenames sort the same |
| 19:53:55 | Llorean | linuxstb: I think we're not using it "wrongly" so much as "our case doesn't work well with their intended purpose" |
| 19:54:04 | fml | linuxstb: no, I think we do it correct. Doing it your way would avoid the need to clip but it would also change the distance between base lines and thus would change the "font picture" −− something explicitly set by the font designer |
| 19:54:12 | rasher | kugel: Right, well as long as you avoid those things in your example, you *could* mention it, though there's probably no need to |
| 19:54:20 | linuxstb | I meant "wrongly" in terms of "not the best way for Rockbox". |
| 19:55:09 | linuxstb | fml: I don't understand. All we're doing is in effect setting a larger line-spacing between lines of fonts. |
| 19:55:21 | linuxstb | s/we're/we would/ |
| 19:55:35 | linuxstb | Bah, I meant "All we would be doing..." |
| 19:55:38 | rasher | And that would *only* be for fonts which have glyphs that are "too large" |
| 19:55:56 | fml | linuxstb: you're right. But this "only" is considered a very important measure in a font |
| 19:57:22 | linuxstb | Well, I can see five choices: 1) Reject the font; 2) Reject the glyph; 3) Clip the glyph; 4) Increase the font height; 5) Rewrite the Rockbox font rendering and scrolling code... |
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| 19:57:54 | Llorean | linuxstb: With the demonstrated screenshots, the fonts are about 1.5 times as tall in some cases, that's a lot less lines per screen. |
| 19:58:14 | Llorean | Clipping *may* be better, I don't know how many fonts have problems, and how unreadable it will make them though |
| 19:59:21 | rasher | Wow, that's a pretty poor font design if you have glyphs that high |
| 19:59:34 | Llorean | rasher: They go downward more than normal too, I think |
| 19:59:49 | fml | rasher: or a quite smart rendering engine :-) |
| 20:00 |
| 20:01:07 | rasher | fml: How would that ever work without producing overlapping glyphs? |
| 20:01:15 | linuxstb | I guess that adding clipping with a warning would be a sensible first step though, but it's not really a permanent solution. |
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| 20:02:05 | fml | rasher: font design is not very simple. It's often a trade off. They "grey picture" is one of most important things (how you see a page from 3m distance) |
| 20:02:36 | fml | they -> the |
| 20:02:57 | rasher | I don't see how you can claim you've made a good font if the user will have to fight with overlapping text |
| 20:03:13 | fml | And it's directly influences by the font height (ascend+descend) |
| 20:04:15 | fml | rasher: that glyphs occur not very often (I think). And if they do occur often (in a certain language) then the font design should be changed for using in that country |
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| 20:05:43 | Llorean | Well, is there a "standard" line spacing? |
| 20:05:54 | Llorean | I mean, I know most print isn't spaced like Rockbox is |
| 20:05:57 | fml | linuxstb: I think the options 2 and 5 are not feasible |
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| 20:06:42 | fml | linuxstb: and if we had these error/warning messages thise fonts wouldn't be accepted in SVN |
| 20:07:39 | IuDeX | it's good to see that -> funman is back ;] |
| 20:08:13 | fml | Llorean: no, I think there's no such thing. There might be some guiding rules, e.g. "line spacing should be ~2* x-height". But in the end it's a matter of design |
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| 20:09:59 | fml | IMP the linuxstb's options 1 and 3 (reject or clip the font) are the best |
| 20:10:07 | Llorean | Apparently one pattern is to make each line 1.2 times the point size of the font on that line. |
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| 20:10:31 | Llorean | We could do that *and* clip. This would introduce a little more spacing, so the clipped images could be more visible on average. |
| 20:10:46 | Llorean | We'd have to clip less off of them, when/if we do |
| 20:11:21 | fml | Llorean: font height *is* the line height. I.e. it includes vertical space |
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| 20:12:39 | Llorean | fml: What about the leading many/most things have? |
| 20:13:31 | fml | Llorean: sorry, I don't understand. What is leading? |
| 20:14:01 | Llorean | fml: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading |
| 20:15:26 | fml | Ah, ok. But that's only done in word processing and DTP systems. Rockbox always uses leading = 0 (i.e. no extra space between lines) |
| 20:16:19 | Llorean | It's also done in display of webpages through CSS properties, etc. |
| 20:16:42 | Llorean | Basically, anywhere you're going to display multiple lines of text you need to decide if you're going to be spacing them. Apparently some fonts assume a certain minimum added line spacing (for some reason). |
| 20:17:41 | fgallina | Is there a way to compile my test plugin and test it on the uiSimulator? |
| 20:18:05 | Llorean | fgallina: Yes, by compiling a simulator build with your plugin included. |
| 20:18:06 | fml | Llorean: No, I think that those are extra features. A "natural" picture, i.e. as thought by the font designer, is without leading |
| 20:18:45 | Llorean | fml: I find this hard to believe since leading has been around as long enough that the term actually refers to the lead spacers used in old print typography. |
| 20:18:56 | Llorean | By now people ought to know that their lines will include spacing. |
| 20:19:59 | fgallina | Llorean: if I make any changes to my plugin how can I recompile only my plugin? |
| 20:20:30 | Llorean | fgallina: If you compile in the same build directory it should only recompile files that need recompiling. |
| 20:20:36 | fml | Llorean: leading has always been used to fill up pages and paragraphs. This is similar to how char spacing is changed to fill the lines in newspapers. But that's advanced typesetting which we don't have in RB |
| 20:21:41 | Llorean | But why *shouldn't* we simply space lines to make it more readable? |
| 20:23:59 | fml | Llorean: we could (of course at compile time, i.e. when running convbdf). But that wouldn't solve all problems because something would always be left. But yes, we could introduce a "stretchability" or "tolerance" parameter to convbdf. |
| 20:24:56 | Llorean | My suggestion is to add a little extra spacing when necessary, but temper it with a maximum after which we clip so that we don't end up having giant amounts of spacing for a few characters that the user may never even see. |
| 20:27:02 | linuxstb | I still think that making Rockbox consider "font height" as the maximum distance between the top of the highest font and the bottom of the lowest is more useful - fonts which take advantage of that feature don't seem suited to Rockbox. |
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| 20:29:13 | fml | linuxstb: if we had the warnings the font wouldn't have been included (because it's apparently not suited for RB) |
| 20:30:21 | fml | linuxstb: I mean, the person who wanted to include it would see the warnings and wouldn't do it in the end |
| 20:30:29 | linuxstb | I just meant that if a warning was added, we would know what fonts it affected, and could then decide what to do with them - one option would be to delete the font. |
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| 20:34:07 | fml | linuxstb: the patch in FS #9931 adds the warning and clips. We can then decide what to do. |
| 20:36:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 20:46:30 | rasher | petur: Mind testing some bootloaders? The current is broken, and we don't know when it stopped working. Last positively known good is r12000-something |
| 20:47:13 | petur | let me fetch it first and see if it still holds some charge |
| 20:47:17 | linuxstb | rasher: Maybe it would be more useful to build ipodpatcher and sansapatcher binaries. Windows/Linux binaries are easy - just copy the bootloaders into the sansapatcher/ipodpatcher directory and type "make" or "make ipodpatcher.exe" (and same for sansapatcher) |
| 20:48:08 | rasher | How does the H10 bootloader installation work? |
| 20:48:16 | linuxstb | Although I think you may need to uncomment two lines in the Makefile for ipodpatcher.... |
| 20:48:25 | * | linuxstb has no idea |
| 20:48:30 | rasher | I don't think we need testing for anything but H10 (and mrobe100) at this stage |
| 20:48:54 | linuxstb | Ah, OK. I thought you were talking about rebuilding all the PP bootloaders. |
| 20:49:02 | | Quit Sedgewick (Connection timed out) |
| 20:49:23 | rasher | linuxstb: Turns out only the sansas have changed behavior, and those have been pretty thoroughly tested already |
| 20:49:39 | rasher | The ipods never did any usb detection in the bootloader. I didn't know that |
| 20:49:48 | petur | I remember having quite a bit of trouble taming my H10 when I got it first... |
| 20:50:41 | rasher | petur: A selection of bootloaders (both ums and mtp) at rasher.dk/rockbox/h10_5gb/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/h10_5gb/ |
| 20:51:00 | petur | heh |
| 20:51:13 | petur | it is currently charging a bit... |
| 20:51:56 | | Quit midgey () |
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| 21:00 |
| 21:01:14 | | Join robin0800_ [0] (n=quassel@general-ld-216.t-mobile.co.uk) |
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| 21:04:57 | | Join dberg918 [0] (n=dave@cpe-098-121-161-003.ec.res.rr.com) |
| 21:05:50 | dberg918 | hey, just wanted to put something on the IRC record |
| 21:06:14 | dberg918 | I was here a few days ago talking about FLAC files that were skipping on my H10 20GB |
| 21:06:30 | dberg918 | turns out the problem was the album art in those directories |
| 21:06:49 | linuxstb | Ah, so nothing to do with them being FLAC files? |
| 21:06:54 | dberg918 | ever since resizing was committed to SVN, I stopped manually resizing everything |
| 21:06:59 | dberg918 | nope |
| 21:07:17 | dberg918 | so the art in those directories was pretty big |
| 21:07:23 | dberg918 | that's what was causing problems |
| 21:07:28 | | Join jaykay [0] (n=chatzill@p579E76E9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:07:28 | linuxstb | Ah, so the problem is the delay when resizing your album-art? |
| 21:07:32 | dberg918 | yeah |
| 21:07:57 | linuxstb | That sounds nasty... |
| 21:08:03 | dberg918 | in one directory, it was bigger than 1000x1000, so the .bmp was like 5MB |
| 21:08:41 | | Nick linuxstb is now known as beer (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 21:08:42 | dberg918 | I'm not experiencing lag with art as large as 500x500 |
| 21:08:56 | | Nick beer is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 21:09:11 | dberg918 | which come out to be about 732.5kb |
| 21:09:14 | dberg918 | comes* |
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| 21:09:35 | linuxstb | What device is this on? |
| 21:09:39 | dberg918 | still hefty compared to 60kb jpgs |
| 21:09:51 | dberg918 | this was on an H10 20GB |
| 21:10:02 | dberg918 | I know, what am I doing with 500x500 album art |
| 21:10:25 | rasher | dberg918: that wouldn't really help any, since the delay happens when resizing, and a 60kb jpg would uncompress to a large size before resizing (unless we cheat) |
| 21:10:28 | linuxstb | 500x500 seems to be normal for album-art I've downloaded |
| 21:10:45 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:10:48 | linuxstb | rasher: It could also be the time taken to read 5MB from disk... |
| 21:10:58 | linuxstb | Or at least, that doesn't help... |
| 21:11:13 | rasher | True. Hard to know which it is, I guess |
| 21:11:24 | dberg918 | that's what I figured linuxstb, especially if you're trying to load FLAC files into the buffer all the while |
| 21:12:31 | dberg918 | so yeah, if anyone comes in talking about lagging playback, checking album art is certainly worth a mention |
| 21:12:34 | | Quit Chris_Black ("off") |
| 21:13:10 | linuxstb | No-one has tested a H10 20GB it seems, but according to this page http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DiskSpeed the similar ipod 4G reads at either 2215 KB/s or 3495 KB/s, depending on whether the read is aligned. |
| 21:13:20 | jaykay | should not reproducable bugs be closed in the tracker? |
| 21:13:36 | linuxstb | So reading that file could take a couple of secons. |
| 21:13:47 | rasher | jaykay: There's no simple answer to that |
| 21:14:03 | * | linuxstb wonders what thread does the album-art reading and resizing |
| 21:14:29 | jaykay | rasher: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9436, the player froze while normal playback, he didnt manage to reproduce it |
| 21:15:04 | | Quit robin0800_ ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.") |
| 21:15:28 | dberg918 | how did I not find this DiskSpeed page in my searches on rockbox.org? |
| 21:15:35 | | Join robin0800 [0] (n=quassel@general-ld-216.t-mobile.co.uk) |
| 21:15:53 | dberg918 | it answers pretty much all the questions I had... |
| 21:15:57 | linuxstb | dberg918: But I think I would call that a bug - if we say to users that they can use any size album-art, I wouldn't expect large images to interfere with playback. |
| 21:16:35 | dberg918 | shall I file a report about revising some documentation? |
| 21:17:04 | rasher | Was it jhMikeS who committed a change that might fix all sorts of lock-ups on h1x0? |
| 21:18:42 | | Join gregorovius [0] (n=diego@190.55.80.21) |
| 21:19:13 | rasher | ah yes, r19991 |
| 21:20:17 | dberg918 | linuxstb: the AlbumArt page makes no mention of using any size album art...but it doesn't make a recommendation either |
| 21:20:53 | Unhelpful | rasher: there are rather excellent cheats available when decoding jpeg - you can use a partial iDCT that actually uses fewer operations than decoding all of the coefficients, to produce a smaller block. this can be done for any N/8 scale if chroma is not subsampled, and i think any N/4 scale if it is. |
| 21:21:07 | rasher | Unhelpful: Yeah, I just realised that while I was typing it |
| 21:21:31 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)") |
| 21:21:42 | dberg918 | maybe if there was just a disclaimer stating that album art size can adversely affect initial playback? |
| 21:22:05 | rasher | dberg918: I'll add one to the manual |
| 21:22:06 | Unhelpful | dberg918: did it? it shouldn't, the scaler yields every row. |
| 21:22:09 | linuxstb | dberg918: I would say it's a bug in Rockbox, not a bug in the documentation. Although that's debatable - if it's hard to fix, we would need to tell users to limit their art to a certain size. |
| 21:22:26 | dberg918 | oh |
| 21:22:49 | saratoga | perhaps the actually buffering code doesn't yeild enough while loading the bmp into memory? |
| 21:22:52 | dberg918 | so, you're saying the album art should be loaded kind of, "around" playback? |
| 21:23:14 | saratoga | though I suppose this would go away if we got jpeg support in core . . . |
| 21:23:20 | * | rasher will hold off doing anything then |
| 21:24:00 | linuxstb | That's how I would have expected it to work. Although with FLAC (and any similar high-bitrate codec) the problem would be that the decoding thread runs out of data before the album art is loaded, and the next track isn't buffered until after the metadata (including album-art) is loaded... |
| 21:24:12 | | Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:24:26 | linuxstb | s/would be/could be/ |
| 21:24:35 | kugel | linuxstb: or at least recomment something. Like saying that having bmp's bigger than screen size doesn't make much sense (and may cause playback problems) |
| 21:24:55 | Unhelpful | saratoga: well, isn't the bitmap loaded *by* the buffering thread? the yield should suffice to prevent stalling of playback of buffered material, but obviously nothing can be done about getting the next track into buffer, unless bitmap loads are split to another thread |
| 21:25:04 | * | rasher thought the album art thread scaled while loading, so the yields should happen while reading a swell |
| 21:25:20 | * | rasher was wrong, it seems |
| 21:25:34 | Unhelpful | ...is there an album art thread? |
| 21:25:54 | saratoga | i assumed it was done by buffering, in which case Unhelpful's explination makes sense |
| 21:25:54 | kugel | I don't think so |
| 21:26:02 | linuxstb | I'm guessing it's done on the buffering thread as well. |
| 21:26:10 | kugel | the loading happens in the buffering thread, iiuc |
| 21:26:17 | saratoga | does the ATA DMA patch work on the H10? |
| 21:26:37 | Unhelpful | saratoga: i'm only guessing it is... but it would explain the behavior |
| 21:26:38 | linuxstb | So either: a) the buffering/resize thread is starving the codec thread; or b) the codec thread runs out of data. |
| 21:27:25 | dberg918 | the lag/skipping happens right at the beginning of playback |
| 21:27:40 | rasher | Unhelpful: That's not quite what I meant to type :) |
| 21:27:44 | linuxstb | You mean when you start the first track? |
| 21:27:47 | dberg918 | I hear about 1 second of music, then it skips |
| 21:28:05 | dberg918 | it happens whenever I play a track in a directory that has gigantic album art |
| 21:28:18 | dberg918 | play as in, actively select |
| 21:28:21 | Unhelpful | could the bitmap be *so* large that yield-per-line doesn't suffice? |
| 21:28:40 | saratoga | i doubt it |
| 21:28:47 | saratoga | and anyway, the CPU should boost in that case |
| 21:28:48 | | Join calman_ [0] (n=caleb@66.213.109.43) |
| 21:28:51 | dberg918 | and I think the lag was longer the bigger the album art |
| 21:29:02 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 21:29:12 | Llorean | Isn't the CPU always boosted when buffering? |
| 21:29:18 | * | linuxstb is confused - he would have expected the first track's album art to be loaded before the track starts decoding. |
| 21:29:20 | Unhelpful | saratoga: resize_on_load boosts around the call to the actual scaler |
| 21:29:26 | saratoga | ah ok |
| 21:29:30 | Llorean | Though I seem to recall FLAC being able to easily allow PCM to underrun in the past due to bad VBR estimation (or something) |
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| 21:32:31 | * | linuxstb wonders if Nico_P can explain how AA works... |
| 21:33:03 | | Quit SirFunk_ (Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:33:33 | saratoga | the ATA-DMA patch doesn't add support for the H10, but it probably could |
| 21:33:42 | saratoga | in which case the read speed would likely go up a lot |
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| 21:35:29 | petur | rasher: the first H10 bootloader I tried (r11000) already fails to load rockbox (-1) - is this the issue I'm looking for? |
| 21:36:43 | rasher | petur: It should load Rockbox but not the OF... :\ |
| 21:37:00 | linuxstb | saratoga: Have people done test_disk.c benchmarks with that patch? Browsing FS #9708 quickly, I can't see any. |
| 21:37:08 | rasher | petur: There's a report on the current bootloader in FS #9955 |
| 21:38:03 | rasher | petur: 11000 might be broken as well though, I guess |
| 21:38:09 | rasher | Try 12k and 13k |
| 21:38:10 | petur | rasher: my bootloader dates from 2007/08/20, maybe something changed? |
| 21:38:14 | petur | I ĺl try |
| 21:38:29 | rasher | I'm quite sure a lot of things changed! |
| 21:38:49 | * | linuxstb realises he should have actually searched for "test_disk" in FS #9708... |
| 21:39:09 | saratoga | Gevaerts USB tests w/ CF showed a 3x improvement in read speed at least |
| 21:41:09 | saratoga | its really strange that doesn't translate into a battery life improvement |
| 21:42:24 | gevaerts | Does the disk spin down immediately after buffering? |
| 21:42:33 | linuxstb | Well, how long does Rockbox spend reading from disk during a typical battery benchmark? |
| 21:42:39 | gevaerts | Also, non-CF isn't nearly as dramatic |
| 21:43:00 | rasher | petur: I think we're basically in a position where it would be great if we could create *any* bootloader that works :\ |
| 21:45:40 | | Quit robin0800 ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.") |
| 21:45:42 | saratoga | linuxstb: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9708#comment27592 |
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| 21:50:39 | petur | rasher: r13000 boots rockbox |
| 21:50:49 | rasher | petur: And the OF? |
| 21:51:07 | soap | petur: does r11000 fail to load rockbox because it is looking in the wrong place? As in the root of the drive (where y'all used to put it) vs the .rockbox folder? |
| 21:51:08 | petur | hmm how do you boot OF? |
| 21:51:21 | rasher | soap has a point |
| 21:51:24 | petur | soap: first thing I tried ;) |
| 21:51:30 | Llorean | I thought that by the time we were on PP targets, we always looked in both. |
| 21:51:43 | * | gevaerts points to the helpful manual :) |
| 21:52:16 | soap | Llorean: You've long held that view, but IIRC we had quite a bit of problems with older bootloaders and the iPod series upon the switch. |
| 21:53:09 | Llorean | soap: The problem we had was that it looked in the root before in .rockbox, so it loaded the older build. |
| 21:53:17 | Llorean | Not that it didn't look in .rockbox at all. |
| 21:53:29 | soap | but it isn't petur's issue (him being (at least) one step ahead of me already). Ahh on the sequence. |
| 21:53:58 | Llorean | Yeah. I'm pretty sure the iPod bootloader always looked in both, but the default order was bad for the changeover. |
| 21:54:03 | Llorean | But, I could be wrong. |
| 21:54:42 | petur | ah... hold cancel while starting |
| 21:54:54 | petur | r13000 also boots OF |
| 21:55:16 | rasher | petur: \o/ |
| 21:55:30 | rasher | r7976 was when the iriver bootloader started looking in .rockbox, so that's far earlier |
| 21:55:31 | petur | wow.... I wonder what iriver did to make that touch strip work soo well in their firmware |
| 21:56:39 | rasher | petur: Okay, so the binary search is on |
| 21:57:16 | rasher | petur: Prod me if you want me to build some more bootloaders |
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| 22:00 |
| 22:06:03 | | Quit gregorovius () |
| 22:07:40 | | Quit jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]") |
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| 22:13:49 | petur | rasher: 14k is ok, 14.5k only boots RB |
| 22:14:03 | rasher | petur: progress! |
| 22:14:22 | | Quit calman_ () |
| 22:14:37 | rasher | Compiling some bootloaders in that range now |
| 22:15:14 | * | petur hums 'bakerman is baking bread' while walking to the oven |
| 22:16:00 | | Join calman_ [0] (n=caleb@66.213.109.43) |
| 22:16:55 | rasher | petur: Uploaded in the same location |
| 22:17:01 | saratoga | I want to fix the vorbis comment crash bug |
| 22:17:08 | saratoga | but i have a question |
| 22:17:21 | saratoga | is it ok if I apply a max size limit on vorbis tags? |
| 22:17:34 | rasher | We already have one for ID3, so I don't see why not |
| 22:17:40 | saratoga | because right now I can fix the bug on the tracker just by checking the return value of malloc |
| 22:18:09 | saratoga | but if someone puts a large tag thats smaller then the codec buffer it will pass the malloc, but still crash later on because there won't be enough memory left for decoding |
| 22:18:35 | saratoga | rasher: do you know what a sensible limit is? |
| 22:18:49 | rasher | No idea about that, no |
| 22:19:06 | saratoga | I was thinking 10KB might be a reasonable limit for a tag |
| 22:19:23 | saratoga | since I doubt rockbox can productively display vorbis comments even 1/10th that size |
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| 22:29:28 | | Nick Horschti is now known as Horscht (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
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| 22:34:43 | saratoga | ok 10000 characters it is |
| 22:34:49 | | Quit redbindelta (Client Quit) |
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| 22:35:33 | rasher | That's not 10KB |
| 22:35:39 | saratoga | i know |
| 22:35:48 | rasher | Alright |
| 22:36:02 | fgallina | I've written a plugin, I compiled it but it is not listed on the available plugins in my uiSimulator |
| 22:36:04 | | Join Red_Build_Delta [0] (n=50bb6921@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5aafd2966a729d45) |
| 22:36:19 | fgallina | why could this be caused, I'm executing make fullinstall after make |
| 22:36:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:36:34 | rasher | fgallina: How did you compile it? Did you add it to apps/plugins/SOURCES and apps/plugins/CATEGORIES? |
| 22:36:37 | petur | rasher: between 14000 and 14050 |
| 22:36:45 | fgallina | in SOURCES |
| 22:37:00 | rasher | petur: Building those.. |
| 22:37:24 | | Quit nuonguy ("This computer has gone to sleep") |
| 22:37:33 | Red_Build_Delta | does the red in the lower build table influence the functionality of the current build ? |
| 22:37:38 | rasher | fgallina: *and* |
| 22:38:06 | kugel | Red_Build_Delta: no, the first row is the current build |
| 22:38:35 | rasher | Red_Build_Delta: the lower table simply visualises size changes in Rockbox code |
| 22:39:21 | kugel | oh, I thought he means the reds in the bottom row in the first build table |
| 22:39:34 | fgallina | thanks rasher! |
| 22:39:46 | | Quit Xerion (" ") |
| 22:40:04 | rasher | fgallina: This seems to be a common error - where did you check for what to do? |
| 22:40:05 | | Quit Red_Build_Delta (Client Quit) |
| 22:40:29 | rasher | petur: some more uploaded.. a few builds failed |
| 22:41:03 | fgallina | actually the page on the wiki related on how to write plugins was not helping very much |
| 22:41:26 | fgallina | it only recommended the vmware image which I don't want to use |
| 22:42:27 | | Join Oniak [0] (n=IceChat7@CPE000f668dcdf2-CM001cea3ddcb4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:42:54 | Oniak | Is it possible to install rockbox on my creative zen portable media center? |
| 22:43:12 | JdGordon | is there anything on the site to suggest you can? |
| 22:43:26 | rasher | fgallina: It did actually tell you to add your plugin to the CATEGORIES file though |
| 22:43:56 | Oniak | Not really anything but I figured Id ask. |
| 22:44:10 | Llorean | Oniak: The site is up to date. |
| 22:44:43 | Oniak | Yes, and that means? |
| 22:45:07 | rasher | Oniak: That if your player was supported, it would be in the list of supported players. |
| 22:45:26 | Oniak | You mean the thing under manual install |
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| 22:45:41 | saratoga | he means the list on the front page |
| 22:45:52 | Oniak | OHhhhh |
| 22:45:53 | Oniak | k |
| 22:47:22 | | Part Oniak |
| 22:47:23 | * | JdGordon assumes he missed the kill-kugel post commit party? :D |
| 22:47:38 | rasher | JdGordon: No, I think there's still time. |
| 22:47:47 | Llorean | Did he break something, or something? |
| 22:47:51 | linuxstb | saratoga: What "malloc" are you referring to (for vorbis comments) ? |
| 22:48:02 | * | amiconn grumbles about the delta for the unnatural sorting :\\ |
| 22:48:13 | | Quit rehpotsirhc (Client Quit) |
| 22:48:18 | JdGordon | Llorean: no... just the usual post commit rant about deltas and unwanted features :) |
| 22:49:12 | rasher | There we go |
| 22:49:45 | rasher | petur: Uploaded all bootloaders between r14000 and r14050 now |
| 22:49:50 | | Quit DC1 ("$4e75") |
| 22:50:05 | petur | fine. I'm between 14000 and 14015 atm |
| 22:50:11 | rasher | Eeek |
| 22:50:16 | rasher | Those are the ones that don't compile |
| 22:50:16 | * | amiconn wonders what he missed |
| 22:50:24 | amiconn | (re bootloaders) |
| 22:50:35 | fgallina | rasher: yes you are right, sorry about that. However I think it should be remarked, perhaps making a title regarding compilation. |
| 22:50:38 | petur | H10 bootloaders failing to load the OF |
| 22:50:43 | rasher | amiconn: Trying to track down when the h10_5gb bootloader stopped being able to boot the OF |
| 22:50:49 | amiconn | ah |
| 22:50:59 | amiconn | Well, my H10 is able to boot the OF |
| 22:51:18 | amiconn | I'm using the latest official bootloader iirc |
| 22:51:20 | rasher | But you're probably using something like ~r12800 if you're using the release bootloader |
| 22:51:23 | petur | rasher: are you still uploading or what? |
| 22:51:35 | rasher | petur: no, done.. the missing ones don't compile |
| 22:51:45 | petur | eeek indeed |
| 22:51:50 | rasher | Between r14003 and r14016 |
| 22:52:01 | * | linuxstb sees saratoga's commit and wonders why Tremor is reading tags at all... |
| 22:52:24 | * | amiconn recommends to compared .map file between the latest working and a non-working one |
| 22:52:46 | rasher | r14004 looks likely to possibly break a bootloader |
| 22:52:49 | | Join Xerion [0] (i=xerion@82-170-197-160.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 22:53:20 | amiconn | The non-working bootloader usb in bootbox turned out to be the missing usb thread, which was visible in the .map |
| 22:53:31 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:53:35 | rasher | I suppose the fix in r14015 broke something for booting the OF |
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| 22:54:00 | petur | 14001 is ok, going for 14003 now |
| 22:54:15 | rasher | r14006 *might* also be interesting, but less likely, I think |
| 22:54:40 | linuxstb | saratoga: Wouldn't the correct fix for FS #9866 be to stop Tremor from reading tags? Lear mentioned that in the comments on that task. |
| 22:55:48 | petur | 14003 is fine as well |
| 22:55:59 | | Part calman_ |
| 22:56:20 | * | rasher compiles and saves .map files |
| 22:56:31 | kugel | is this good? http://pastie.org/404055 |
| 22:56:34 | | Quit ender` (" Please help Conserve Gravity - Play Chess, not Basketball.") |
| 22:57:17 | rasher | kugel: looks good to me |
| 22:57:33 | rasher | Though I'd probably use something other than foo and bar |
| 22:57:49 | rasher | Make it look slightly more plausible |
| 22:59:06 | kugel | and what? :) |
| 22:59:33 | kugel | I could pick some random album of mine |
| 22:59:40 | JdGordon | kugel: I'd change the first sentance to something like "enables a sorting which resembles the sorting in most standard browsers, where groups of digits are considered numbers and sorted before letter, e.g ..." |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:14 | kugel | sorted before letter? |
| 23:00:28 | rasher | kugel: Doesn't really matter, I just think using foo bar etc looks a bit "unpolished" |
| 23:01:00 | JdGordon | kugel: letters* |
| 23:01:19 | rasher | JdGordon: That doesn't really explain what it does |
| 23:01:20 | kugel | yea, but that's not true |
| 23:01:51 | * | kugel picks johnny cash |
| 23:02:39 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 23:03:05 | kadoban | kugel: maybe just s/, for example,// ? |
| 23:03:42 | rasher | kugel: Maybe add "episode 1 / episode 10 / episode 2" to the list? |
| 23:04:04 | kugel | fine |
| 23:04:08 | kugel | kadoban: Why? |
| 23:04:33 | rasher | kugel: To make obvious that it's not only about initial numbers |
| 23:04:38 | kadoban | kugel: it looks overly complicated and seems to work without it? maybe it's just me |
| 23:04:54 | rasher | petur: so 14003 is good, 14016 is bad, and the ones in between don't build? |
| 23:05:07 | rasher | petur: Wait, how about 14015? |
| 23:05:16 | petur | 14015 is also bad |
| 23:05:28 | petur | I never tried 14016 |
| 23:06:14 | * | kugel adds episode and a \caption |
| 23:06:32 | rasher | Ah, right, no point |
| 23:06:48 | * | rasher attempts to collect .map files again |
| 23:09:10 | | Quit fgallina (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:10:01 | | Join drehpotsirhc [0] (n=christop@cpe-066-026-065-018.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:10:06 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:10:21 | | Quit Zoxc () |
| 23:10:49 | rasher | The obvious change between r14003 and r14015 is the removal of set_cpu_frequency, if I read this right |
| 23:11:19 | rasher | rasher.dk/rockbox/h10_5gb/bootloader.map.r14003">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/h10_5gb/bootloader.map.r14003 - http://rasher.dk/rockbox/h10_5gb/bootloader.map.r14015 |
| 23:12:32 | amiconn | hah |
| 23:12:38 | | Quit drehpotsirhc ("Leaving") |
| 23:12:55 | amiconn | Iirc the H10 rom sets the frequency to 80MHz. I guess the OF expects that... |
| 23:15:29 | rasher | That doesn't sound terribly unlikely |
| 23:15:54 | | Join robin0800_ [0] (n=quassel@general-kt-199.t-mobile.co.uk) |
| 23:17:26 | | Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.) |
| 23:17:31 | | Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 23:22:14 | | Quit robin0800_ ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.") |
| 23:22:45 | | Join robin0800_ [0] (n=quassel@general-kt-199.t-mobile.co.uk) |
| 23:22:55 | rasher | amiconn: Any idea how to fix? |
| 23:25:43 | | Join lunix151 [0] (n=richmast@CPE001217414019-CM0011e6c78dbd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:27:01 | lunix151 | Hello everybody |
| 23:28:10 | | Quit tyfoo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:28:18 | lunix151 | I just started to test the new usb support in the Sansa e200 |
| 23:29:13 | lunix151 | I can mount it just fine but rhythmbox and banshee both hang and spit the following message "ptp_usb_getresp: detected short response of 32 bytes, expect problems!" |
| 23:29:22 | * | amiconn summons Zagor |
| 23:30:00 | linuxstb | lunix151: Hmm, sounds like those apps are attempting to use MTP |
| 23:30:07 | rasher | lunix151: That sounds a bit like they're expecting an MTP device |
| 23:30:07 | * | linuxstb summons gevaerts |
| 23:30:10 | rasher | Too slow.. |
| 23:30:19 | lunix151 | yes |
| 23:30:23 | * | gevaerts was going to say the same |
| 23:30:41 | * | Bagder thought PTP was for cameras... |
| 23:30:48 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 23:30:49 | rasher | Bagder: MTP is a dialect of PTP |
| 23:30:56 | gevaerts | Treating a mass storage device as MTP isn't going to work well |
| 23:31:00 | lunix151 | ok so the rockbox firmware doesn't support mtp then? ill just turn off that plugin the |
| 23:31:03 | lunix151 | then |
| 23:31:05 | lunix151 | makes sense |
| 23:31:19 | rasher | Bagder: And I believe those use libgphoto or a derived library to do mtp |
| 23:31:24 | Llorean | Maybe they're hard-coded to try MTP, since modern firmwares on the e200 have that auto-detect feature that does UMS if it thinks the host can't do MTP? |
| 23:31:47 | Llorean | Are the VID/PID different in MTP mode? |
| 23:31:48 | linuxstb | libmtp is based on libgphoto I believe. At least, there are lots of ptp_* functions in there. |
| 23:32:02 | rasher | Mystery solved. |
| 23:32:08 | gevaerts | lunix151: exactly. I'd like to have mtp, but probably not enough to do the work myself... |
| 23:34:09 | | Quit robin0800_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:34:10 | linuxstb | Llorean: Yes, according to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceDetection |
| 23:34:25 | | Quit nibbler (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:34:29 | linuxstb | I don't know what it gives in that magic mode though... |
| 23:35:43 | gevaerts | I expect that this magic mode is just mtp with automatic disconnect and reconnect as msc if it doesn't get an mtp connection |
| 23:45:57 | linuxstb | So the OF has "magic mode" and "UMS only mode" ? |
| 23:46:28 | kugel | You can also chose mtp only |
| 23:46:29 | | Quit DC1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:46:29 | gevaerts | I think so, yes |
| 23:46:46 | kugel | in which case it doesn't connect at all, if the host cannot do mtp |
| 23:46:53 | | Join jeffronius [0] (n=jomegata@69.12.221.210) |
| 23:47:11 | | Quit bertrik ("Leaving") |
| 23:47:28 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
| 23:48:15 | kugel | saratoga: had a look at my latest disable wps update patch? |
| 23:48:50 | | Quit petur ("Zzzzz") |
| 23:50:04 | rasher | amiconn: Do we even need new bootloaders for the H10 - ie. does it boot Rockbox on usb plugin? |
| 23:51:04 | | Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:51:07 | rasher | gevaerts: Same question for the mrobe:100 - does the current bootloader need changing at all? |
| 23:51:09 | kugel | rasher: the one report says it boots the of |
| 23:51:14 | lunix151 | well I just disabled the mtp plugin in banshee then created a .is_audio_player file on my sansa and its working great now |
| 23:51:34 | rasher | kugel: where? |
| 23:51:50 | kugel | rasher: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9955#comment28566 |
| 23:52:00 | gevaerts | rasher: currently it goes straight to OF (ROM?) USB mode on startup if plugged in. Not sure if that's the rockbox bootloader or the OF |
| 23:52:31 | rasher | Ah, missed that. Seems like some OF thing, but pre-rockbox? |
| 23:52:43 | * | rasher has little idea about the H10+ |
| 23:52:53 | gevaerts | Possibly. I'm not entirely sure |
| 23:53:41 | gevaerts | Anyway I think it's good to check that the code still works :) |
| 23:54:04 | rasher | This is true |
| 23:55:06 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@ppp-70-243-32-116.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:56:34 | * | pixelma sees a weirdness in an H10 sim (the "small" one) - afte simulation turns off the backlight the first time and a button press there is a black rectangle at the bottom of the simulated screem |
| 23:56:38 | pixelma | screen too |
| 23:56:51 | amiconn | That seems to be an SDL bug |
| 23:57:01 | amiconn | kugel reported it for the e200 sim as well |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).