| 00:00:07 | * | stripwax guesses ... sudo rbutil ? |
| 00:00:33 | BigBambi | Or at least someone told me it wasn't when I was checking whether to add it to the manual |
| 00:00:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | (Assuming rbutil is in the /Applications folder in OS X) "sudo open -a rbutilqt.app" |
| 00:00:48 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Surely it is either needed or not? |
| 00:01:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: I don't think it's needed, but I use it anyway. |
| 00:01:07 | bluebrother | BigBambi: it seems to not be required for ipodpatcher but for some reason for rbutil |
| 00:01:31 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: So if it isn't needed we shouldn't tell people to use it |
| 00:01:35 | BigBambi | bluebrother: Ah, OK |
| 00:01:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | bluebrother: It doesn't seem to be required for Sansapatcher, either. |
| 00:02:02 | BigBambi | I assume that that is the case for ipods and sansas? |
| 00:02:09 | bluebrother | BigBambi: no idea why this is happening or whats causing this |
| 00:02:40 | BigBambi | I'll pop a note in the manual then if it is needed |
| 00:03:28 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: I assume the line you gave above is the standard OS X one? |
| 00:03:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: You have permission to pop a note in the manual. :) |
| 00:04:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: That is assuming the user has copied the rbutilqt.app file into their /Applications folder. |
| 00:04:35 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Would that be normal, or would people download it to the desktop for instance? |
| 00:04:38 | * | BigBambi has no idea how OS X works |
| 00:06:02 | stripwax | How do I confirm if rockbox regular build server uses arm-elf-gcc 4.0.3 and arm-elf-ld 2.16 ? (wondering if my cygwin builds are using something that's recently become incompatible with something) |
| 00:06:57 | JdGordon| | doesnt it say in the server build log? |
| 00:07:04 | domonoky | stripwax: if you hover over the numbers in the build server, you can see which gcc and ld server this particular build server used.. |
| 00:07:11 | BigBambi | Mind you, we don't tell people how to do root/admin for linux/windows either, just that they need to |
| 00:07:14 | JdGordon| | or that :) |
| 00:07:15 | domonoky | s/server/version |
| 00:07:24 | | Quit JdGordon| ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 00:07:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: OS X doesn't care where apps are run from, so people can copy them anywhere. |
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| 00:07:36 | BigBambi | So maybe it would be enough to just add OS X to that |
| 00:08:01 | stripwax | domonoky - ah, right - thanks! |
| 00:08:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: The /Applications folder is there for you to just keep your files in a safe place. But anyway, that's enough of that talk. :) |
| 00:08:45 | | Quit J-23 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:08:56 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Sure, but if they were running it from the desktop say, would they run a different command - e.g. change to the corect directory then run sudo ./rbutil like linux? |
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| 00:09:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: In those sorts of cases, you would just switch to the folder and type "open <foo-app>" |
| 00:09:41 | | Quit ender` (" Anyone who thinks people lack originality should watch them folding roadmaps.") |
| 00:09:45 | salty-horse | hi. getting a warning about character clipping in some fonts when running "make zip" −− is this a known problem? |
| 00:10:14 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: So open is the OS X version of sudo? |
| 00:10:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: No, open is to launch an app. |
| 00:10:28 | BigBambi | salty-horse: You can ignore them |
| 00:10:50 | * | LambdaCalculus37 will be in the other channel with OS X talk |
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| 00:11:27 | | Quit peanus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:11:35 | salty-horse | ok BigBambi |
| 00:13:28 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: a) this is OS X regards to rbutil and b) we have been talking about sudo so far, so we suddenly switch to open? |
| 00:13:44 | BigBambi | s/we/why/ |
| 00:14:14 | | Part salty-horse ("Leaving") |
| 00:14:14 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: The whole point is that rbutil on OS X seems to need root rights |
| 00:15:13 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Perhaps you could re-read my questions and answer again :) |
| 00:16:09 | bluebrother | would be interesting to know why this issue happens for rbutil but not the patchers |
| 00:16:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: In OS X, if you have to launch any app with root permissions (and not commandline apps like wget or anything), and assuming the application package resides in /Applications, you can type "sudo open -a <foo.app>" in the Terminal. |
| 00:16:44 | | Quit dfkt (Connection timed out) |
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| 00:17:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | If you just double click the app in the Finder, it'll run without root permissions. |
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| 00:17:26 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: Right, and if it isn't in /Applications, but instead they have downloaded it to e.g. the desktop? |
| 00:18:34 | * | linuxstb wonders if peanus's problem was simply because he "formatted as fat32", rather than "converted the ipod to fat32" - i.e. if the Apple firmware still worked? |
| 00:18:48 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: Didn't you succeed using rbutil on OS X without root rights? |
| 00:19:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: No. I had to sudo it. |
| 00:19:26 | | Quit n1s ("Lämnar") |
| 00:19:53 | bluebrother | LambdaCalculus37: have you checked the permissions on the executable? Maybe some x bits are set differently? |
| 00:19:59 | BigBambi | And can you run an application that is not in /Applications with sudo, and if so, how? |
| 00:20:25 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090221#20:44:18 |
| 00:20:38 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: Then in that case, what you would do is cd to the folder where the app package resides, and then type "sudo open <foo.app>" |
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| 00:21:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | bluebrother: Haven't checked them. I should do so. |
| 00:21:06 | | Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 00:21:12 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 00:21:19 | BigBambi | Thank you |
| 00:21:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Older versions needed sudo. I haven't tried with 1.0.9; just with the SVN build bluebrother gave me. |
| 00:24:27 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: Are you sure? Maybe you had the same problem that stopped that version working the first time? |
| 00:25:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: It's possible. I want to try testing this again, though. |
| 00:26:13 | bluebrother | LambdaCalculus37: have you tested the svn binary with sudo too? |
| 00:26:40 | linuxstb | bluebrother: Does rbutil do anything other than search for an ipod's raw disk device? |
| 00:27:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | bluebrother: No, I didn't. And I also can't find the build you rolled for me; can you send me another one? |
| 00:28:25 | bluebrother | linuxstb: during the remount wait? No, it only checks if the disk device that was used for installing is mounted again (using the getmntinfo syscall) |
| 00:28:44 | bluebrother | LambdaCalculus37: domonoky created that one, I don't have the binary :( |
| 00:29:04 | linuxstb | bluebrother: No, I mean before the bootloader is written - i.e. before the "no ipods found" message? |
| 00:29:15 | BigBambi | I think we need to sponser either domonoky or bluebrother a Mac :) |
| 00:29:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | domonoky: I need a new SVN build of rbutil for OS X. |
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| 00:29:24 | * | LambdaCalculus37 needs a new Mac ;) |
| 00:29:34 | bluebrother | it only runs the ipodpatcher checks |
| 00:29:56 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: I was thinking more for rbutil development :) |
| 00:30:57 | bluebrother | BigBambi: LambdaCalculus37 just needs to start developing on rbutil ;-) |
| 00:31:25 | BigBambi | bluebrother: Or that :) |
| 00:31:29 | JdGordon| | LambdaCalculus37: you actually need one or just access to one? I can hook you up woth vnc/ssh access to my mini back home... |
| 00:31:38 | JdGordon| | its on a fast connection so vnc shuold be useable |
| 00:31:46 | JdGordon| | and its already got xcode/gcc |
| 00:31:54 | | Quit bertrik ("Leaving") |
| 00:32:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | JdGordon|: Sure, email me the details and I'll set it up tonight. |
| 00:32:35 | stripwax | Listening to drive access on OF usb file transfer versus Rockbox usb file transfer on ipod video, it sounds like OF is performing quite a bit of caching - with Rockbox file transfer I can clearly hear seeking for each individual file written, but with OF file transfer there's plenty of silence (just spinning) from the drive while many files are 'copied' followed by a burst of seeking activity from the disk |
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| 00:33:11 | JdGordon| | LambdaCalculus37: ah crap.. i just remembered vnc server in osx is useless so only the logged in person can use it... :< |
| 00:33:27 | JdGordon| | my family might not like you trying to dev while they are watching tv :p |
| 00:34:45 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:35:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | JdGordon|: Ahh well... it was worth a shot. :) |
| 00:35:40 | JdGordon| | ssh access is no problem though if you want it |
| 00:36:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | Sure. Email me the address to log into and details. |
| 00:36:16 | * | LambdaCalculus37 heads home |
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| 00:38:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:38:50 | stripwax | So maybe OF is simply caching writes in memory and flushing cache periodically and on eject. Not a bad strategy especially when host OS has been told to 'optimize for quick removal'. |
| 00:39:19 | stripwax | ("This setting disables write caching on the disk and in Windows", etc) |
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| 00:45:54 | stripwax | Sigh, ipod no longer responds to menu+select reboot - is there any known workaround or do I need to let the battery run down? |
| 00:46:14 | stripwax | (btw I think FS #8668 is the cause of my crash, turns out build wasn't quite clean) |
| 00:46:17 | JdGordon| | flick the hold switch and try again?> |
| 00:48:44 | | Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:50:03 | stripwax | JdGordon - any idea how long for? tried flicking hold 'on' for a minute, flicking back to hold 'off' for a minute, then holding menu+select for a minute.. |
| 00:50:33 | JdGordon| | no idea... i thought it just needed a quick flick |
| 00:50:46 | stripwax | hm, never mind. seems to work with a really quick flick. thanks |
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| 01:47:29 | Unhelpful | hwcodec pictureflow patch... works on sim, and i don't see anything obviously wrong. any comments/suggestions? http://pastie.org/408935 |
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| 01:49:55 | kadoban | Unhelpful: is there supposed to not be a _ on line 78 ("UNIQBUF SIZE")? |
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| 01:50:26 | peanus | fuck yeah i got it installed |
| 01:51:14 | peanus | Hey, thanks, whomever, for now dumbing down the manual-install instructions. it took 4 hours, but it forced me to learn a ton about how my computer and ipod works. |
| 01:51:21 | peanus | thanks. |
| 01:51:22 | kadoban | oh, looks like it's just displaying wrong. scratch that |
| 01:51:31 | peanus | (that wasnt sarcasm) |
| 01:51:34 | Unhelpful | huh? it looks like it says "UNIQBUF_SIZE" to me, both in the line removed and its replacement. |
| 01:51:45 | Unhelpful | weird font issue? |
| 01:52:00 | kadoban | yeah i guess...something about the highlighting seems to mess it up |
| 01:53:08 | Unhelpful | it's really pretty straightforward, add one API export missing on hwcodec, and use the audio buffer if the plugin buffer is tiny. |
| 01:54:08 | kadoban | looks okay to me, for what little that's worth :) |
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| 02:06:59 | thomc | Hi my iPod (Video 30GB) is formatted just for use as an external hard drive. It doesn't have any software on it at all. When I try to install the bootloader with the ipodpatcher script it reports "no ipods found". The ipod is mounted as a drive and I can access it like that. Am I missing something? |
| 02:07:16 | krazykit | thomc, yes, you need a working original firmware |
| 02:07:33 | scorche | thomc: see the IpodManualRestore wiki page |
| 02:08:23 | thomc | Right, thanks very much. |
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| 02:17:12 | scorche | If no one has any more valid ideas for the SummerOfCode2009 wiki page, perhaps we can flesh out the existing ideas with a basic outline of what the implementation of X idea might be? |
| 02:17:45 | scorche | as the wiki page stands, i am not so confident of our getting accepted to participate in GSoC this year... |
| 02:17:57 | | Quit Hawson (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:19:19 | pixelma | Unhelpful: you tested in an Ondio sim, right? Just trying to find out whether to expect something weird wrt controls... |
| 02:19:41 | pixelma | pictureflow that is, of course |
| 02:20:00 | Llorean | I think both the "Touchscreen" and "Lua" features on there fall more under "wishlist" than anything else. |
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| 02:20:23 | scorche | Llorean: agreed, but the last thing we need to be doing to the page is pruning it... |
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| 02:20:45 | scorche | of course we need to only be accepting projects that we would like to see, but we really really need more ideas - not less of them |
| 02:20:49 | Llorean | scorche: Is it actually required that we have a large number of ideas? |
| 02:21:04 | Llorean | I thought the idea was that students could also propose things as the time comes. |
| 02:21:31 | scorche | sure they do, however the ideas list is heavily considered when accepting orgs |
| 02:21:35 | peanus | thome: woah, i just instlalled on a 30gb ipod an hour ag |
| 02:21:38 | peanus | o |
| 02:22:06 | scorche | the most common reason why an org was not accepted last year was a poorly fleshout out/developed ideas list |
| 02:23:09 | Llorean | scorche: That seems odd. I mean, can't we be accepted but then receive no student allocation because of dumb ideas? |
| 02:23:43 | scorche | Llorean: http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-organization-selection-criteria |
| 02:24:07 | scorche | student allocation isnt related to the ideas list at all |
| 02:24:54 | scorche | also see http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors |
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| 02:26:41 | thomc | well I'm trying to restore using the instructions on the IpodManualRestore wiki page, but my iPod only has one partition. Do I need to create a second? |
| 02:27:11 | notlistening | Ok is the rockboxplayer a waste of time? |
| 02:27:30 | scorche | notlistening: that depends on what you want to get out of it |
| 02:27:51 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 02:28:04 | notlistening | in thhe end a player that runs rockbox that people want |
| 02:28:41 | | Quit Hawson (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 02:29:19 | Llorean | scorche: I've added several more ideas to the page. |
| 02:29:22 | scorche | notlistening: then you would have to talk to "people"...for my view at least, i dont see any features or abilities over any of my existing device to motivate me to get one....of course i speak only for myself when i say this... |
| 02:29:33 | Llorean | thomc: If you follow the instructions, it will end up with multiple partitions. |
| 02:30:44 | thomc | Llorean: well I've rewritten the MBR and copied over the firmware and got to the point where I'm instructed to format the second partition... but it's not there. |
| 02:30:53 | thomc | fdisk lists only one partition. |
| 02:31:19 | notlistening | ok scorche I understand your point it has to be what people want and at the moment it is not |
| 02:31:39 | Llorean | thomc: Did you force your OS to re-read the MBR? |
| 02:32:13 | Llorean | notlistening: At the moment, it's almost certainly going to be too expensive. The featureset he's offering can mostly be purchased as a refurbished player for less than USD $20 |
| 02:32:40 | notlistening | so what would make it something you want? |
| 02:32:45 | | Quit Hawson_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 02:33:55 | thomc | Llorean: I repeated the process and it's working now. Must've made a mistake. Thanks. |
| 02:34:10 | scorche | i think that question has been answered a few times in the earlier pages of the thread |
| 02:34:39 | notlistening | ok I will look again it take a long time my eyesight is not so good |
| 02:34:47 | Llorean | notlistening: The first step (in my mind) would be to try to offer _all_ the functionality of Rockbox. So that when people are looking for a player, they see one that is obviously "better" than all the others, rather than one that's just "as good" but costs more. |
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| 02:35:41 | Unhelpful | pixelma: yes, ondio sim. next/prev scroll the covers, up toggles between cover / track list, down brings up the menu (that seemed weird), and there appears to be no scrolling the track list :/ |
| 02:36:07 | Llorean | notlistening: the unfortunate truth is that this player is almost definitely going to cost more than any other player you can run Rockbox on, just because it's going to be new and produced in smaller quantities even in the best case. So it needs to stand out as something worth paying a premium for (in my opinion). |
| 02:36:46 | notlistening | I agree |
| 02:37:06 | pixelma | Unhelpful: similar to c200 then (but worse). Why doesn't it surprise me though? :\ |
| 02:37:20 | notlistening | humm well back to the drawing board i think |
| 02:37:54 | notlistening | is there a feature set of rockbox and also a future planned feature set? |
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| 02:38:36 | Llorean | There's not really a future planned feature set. |
| 02:38:58 | notlistening | lol well i thought i would ask |
| 02:39:00 | Llorean | The best way to stay "future" friendly is to pick a CPU a bit more powerful than you need so that things like more advanced video codecs or new audio codecs are likely to perform well |
| 02:39:53 | notlistening | right and how powerful are we looking at? |
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| 02:40:36 | scorche | as well, there are few devices that have, say, a digital out...some people like to have certain aspects for recording...others like very high capacity, still others might like other features.. |
| 02:41:32 | Llorean | notlistening: Well, it depends in part on whether you want to offer video (on the player's screen, or with an actual output to TV). If video isn't too important, the one already chosen is probably good enough. It will also probably handle the existing video playback fairly well. |
| 02:42:10 | | Quit gregorovius () |
| 02:42:14 | Llorean | The most powerful Rockbox target at the moment (I believe) uses the i.MX31 which is 532mzh ARM1136JF-S |
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| 02:42:42 | | Part thomc ("Leaving") |
| 02:42:49 | Llorean | A lot of us like the idea of a new HD target, though honestly that's probably a niche and may not align with what the larger audience wants. |
| 02:42:59 | Llorean | HD as in "hard disk" not "high definitino" |
| 02:43:13 | notlistening | Do you think it is wise to go for everything everyone wants? |
| 02:43:36 | notlistening | yeah i got hdd as disk |
| 02:43:58 | scorche | you cant do everything everyone wants, as some liek small form factor, others like a lot of features |
| 02:44:00 | Llorean | I don't know if it's wise to go for _everything_ necessarily. It depends on how expensive it will end up, of course. |
| 02:44:31 | notlistening | Well we are looking a making this for the people that want rockbox which in the main is you guys |
| 02:44:50 | Llorean | If I were designing it, I would list every possible feature, then organize them by "importance" (as in, how much I thought 'everyone' wanted that feature) then try to guess how much each would add to the final cost, pick a target cost, then add them in from the "most" important, working down the list until I reached that cost. |
| 02:44:59 | Unhelpful | pixelma: suggestions on a fix? define my own contexts for PLA rather than using combining contexts? |
| 02:45:06 | notlistening | humm it is very ahrd to know what to do |
| 02:45:28 | Llorean | notlistening: I think you should make it for the users, not the developers. Many of us have several players anyway, and get new players to work on rather than to use. |
| 02:45:30 | | Quit Lss () |
| 02:47:31 | | Quit Hawson (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 02:47:49 | notlistening | Llorean when we start talking about costs i and the other guys involved do not really have an idea of this |
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| 02:50:34 | notlistening | do you think that the developers here even without hardware initially will want to work on it if we have a sensible feature / design list |
| 02:50:51 | pixelma | Unhelpful: if you ask me - get rid of PLA there </semi-serious>. Combining contexts is the worst you can do, so maybe as a first step you could try if it's possible to use one context in one screen and a second in the other. If you mean with defining your own contexts to invent a whole new one, I'd object as this is entirely against what PLA should be about |
| 02:51:29 | notlistening | If we could get the hardware designed and a way of producting the prototype will they follow |
| 02:51:56 | notlistening | build it and they will come - field of dreams like |
| 02:52:20 | pixelma | Unhelpful: then it's not different to have your own button (or action) definition in the plugin but hidden away. Or do you mean own action definitions in pictureflow? |
| 02:52:53 | Llorean | notlistening: If the hardware is _really_ interesting you might get a few developers to work on it (and as casainho's demonstrated, it doesn't necessarily take many to get things rolling). But it's not really something I'd gamble on necessarily |
| 02:53:31 | | Quit Aurix_Lexico (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:53:47 | Unhelpful | a context per screen, if there's a context that has all of the controls each screen needs, would be nice |
| 02:54:06 | notlistening | and are there hardware guys who can help with the design as are skills are limited |
| 02:54:39 | notlistening | So don't bother |
| 02:55:35 | Llorean | notlistening: Honestly, casainho's general idea isn't bad innately. It's just got some strange design choices that cripple it for being something you can attract people with (in my opinion) |
| 02:55:52 | Llorean | As I said, the amount of RAM on it doesn't make sense for it being a flash-based player. |
| 02:56:16 | notlistening | maybe what we are trying to do is outside the scope of our ability |
| 02:56:18 | Llorean | The vast majority of RAM is used for buffering from a hard disk. If there's no hard disk, an awful lot of it can go without causing a significant problem. |
| 02:56:54 | notlistening | wekk that was something on the dev board but maybe he had more optuins if the choice of that |
| 02:57:23 | Llorean | Yeah. My concern was just that when or if someone's looking around to try to get this produced, the people looking at producing it will thing that 64MB was chosen for a reason. |
| 02:58:03 | notlistening | ok, well this is something that we need to highlight to them |
| 02:58:11 | Llorean | If you reduce the RAM to save cost, and pick a screen more modern (something 320x240 is pretty standard), and if the sound quality is good enough (I don't have personal experience with the codec he's chosen AFAIK) it doesn't actually sound bad. |
| 02:58:26 | notlistening | like most of the features on thatdev board they are not used at all |
| 02:59:25 | notlistening | okay my concern was we are totally barking up the wrong tree |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:14 | Llorean | No, I wouldn't say that. |
| 03:00:55 | notlistening | again our mutual friend has chosen it because of the ease of development rather than its merits |
| 03:01:17 | notlistening | and i understand why this is due to the lack ofany of our experience in the type of work |
| 03:01:19 | Llorean | I think one problem is that he's depending on the fact that it's "open" as a selling point. |
| 03:02:41 | notlistening | yeah i agree it is what he is stressing and that might float a bit with googles efforts but the hardware must be as good as if not better |
| 03:03:29 | notlistening | you can have the best software ever running on a can of beans it is still only a can of beans |
| 03:04:53 | Llorean | It's not _bad_ hardware or anything. It's just, it doesn't have anything to make me pick it over players that will certainly be cheaper and smaller. |
| 03:05:06 | Llorean | Well, the screen's kinda bad. |
| 03:05:11 | Llorean | But everything else isn't really. :) |
| 03:05:42 | Llorean | It will only really have an advantage if people _really_ don't want to buy refurbished, and if the Sansa AMS port either fails, or falls behind and a new generation of Sansas come out. |
| 03:06:07 | JdGordon | Llorean: why do you think the playlist insert thing is only useful for people who want to eventually save the playlist? |
| 03:06:18 | Llorean | I didn't actually say that. |
| 03:06:48 | Llorean | I said I think that for people who will save playlists, "Insert" is more useful than "Queue" because you're creating permanent playlists. |
| 03:07:01 | Llorean | For people who won't save playlists, "Insert" is the same as "Queue" mostly, because in neither case are you keeping the list. |
| 03:07:26 | Llorean | But I also said I'm not really too aware of the usual use cases for queue, in general. |
| 03:08:01 | Llorean | My understanding of it is that it's for intentionally temporary things, so to me at least I wouldn't see someone queuing a particularly large number of songs. If you're going to queue more than just a small number, you may as well just insert them and not save the list. |
| 03:08:05 | JdGordon | I dont think having in mind that you might want to save it is relevant... |
| 03:08:28 | Llorean | So the button should be used for Queue and not Insert? |
| 03:08:49 | JdGordon | you're right that f you dont save there is no difference... bt you might want to save later and you know that you wouldnt want this track added |
| 03:09:17 | JdGordon | NO... my opinion is that choosing one f those options and hardcodng it is a bad idea |
| 03:09:17 | Llorean | My point is about which single function is most appropriate. Do you think Queue is more valuable as a single-button function than Insert? |
| 03:09:30 | peanus | HALP (just a little) I was sent over to <http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LangFiles>, by a link saying it had info on how to compile a lang file (i want Bork), but I can't find any info on how to compile one. is there another page with this info? |
| 03:09:51 | Llorean | JdGordon: Yes, but if that's the case, many of our hardcoded buttons are a bad idea. You're just trying to focus on one to get your foot in the door. |
| 03:10:27 | JdGordon | you know i'm not... |
| 03:10:53 | JdGordon | especially when we make a big dealabout this butto/action being the PLAYLIST ACTION |
| 03:10:54 | Llorean | JdGordon: "Some people might want other things" is exactly the same argument you could give for, say, making the Pitch shortcut keys configurable so that they can be used for other things. |
| 03:11:21 | JdGordon | yes it is.. but thats not the topic |
| 03:11:30 | Llorean | Or making the Volume buttons on targets with spare ones configurable, because you don't use them in the list when music isn't playing. |
| 03:11:54 | Llorean | Nearly _every_ button we have, except ones explicitly labeled, can be argued as us "simply picking the function we thought would be most valuable to have." |
| 03:12:08 | Llorean | So instead of arguing "this thing we've always done, we need to stop doing it" why not offer a single function that would be better on the button? |
| 03:12:32 | | Quit peanus (Remote closed the connection) |
| 03:13:46 | JdGordon | I'm not suggesting all out customisable buttons... none is and only very few people want it... having a very limited subset of available actions for a button which is not in the "standard set" would be bloody useful and i think its a bad decsision that we dont do it |
| 03:14:04 | JdGordon | the rec button in the list is one such button |
| 03:15:06 | JdGordon | and btw, i think the extra support argument is nonesense if its done correctly |
| 03:15:35 | Llorean | Tell me, how do you do it in a way that doesn't require us to either ask additional questions, or explain how to verify what the setting is, before telling people a series of buttons to press to perform an action? |
| 03:15:51 | Llorean | What is this "done correctly"? |
| 03:16:45 | JdGordon | well, for one thing if the maual doesnt usethat button as the standrd way of doing it... so it explain you need to get to the context menu to find the insert options instead of sayig "press rec to insert" |
| 03:17:36 | JdGordon | then you can add "you can use the rec button to speed this up by choosing whch insert method to use, we dont recommend changing te value if you have problems " |
| 03:17:47 | JdGordon | i dont know.. something like that... its not hard |
| 03:17:58 | Llorean | How is that not extra work for those providing support then? |
| 03:18:16 | JdGordon | how is it extra work? |
| 03:18:16 | Llorean | It's a bunch of extra stuff we wouldn't have to say if it's a hard-coded button. |
| 03:18:33 | JdGordon | its in the manual |
| 03:18:39 | JdGordon | you say use defaults and rtfm |
| 03:19:47 | Llorean | What "limited subset" do you think is necessary then. Insert, Insert Shuffled, Queue, and Queue Shuffled? |
| 03:20:00 | Llorean | Or even simply "Insert" and "Queue" |
| 03:20:24 | JdGordon | and repeat last action... |
| 03:20:54 | JdGordon | i dont see why you cant give the full set.. |
| 03:20:54 | Llorean | Why? |
| 03:20:59 | Llorean | You don't need the full set |
| 03:21:15 | Llorean | There is no reason, ever, to need to repeat the other options more than once unless you don't pay attention and choose the wrong song. |
| 03:21:31 | JdGordon | its less work (code and support) to just give all the avilable option |
| 03:21:32 | JdGordon | s |
| 03:22:16 | Llorean | If you're talking about adding in a new action anyway, I don't see why shortening the list is "hard" |
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| 03:22:57 | JdGordon | why say you have the choice of these 2 options when you can just say you hae the choice of ay of the options |
| 03:23:41 | Llorean | Ignoring shuffle, those are the only two necessary to get the full explicit functionality sped up. |
| 03:24:14 | JdGordon | fine, whatever... shuffle shouldnt be ignored though |
| 03:24:25 | Llorean | I still don't think the button needs to be configurable. |
| 03:26:01 | JdGordon | I still see it as a completly pointless chang if its not |
| 03:26:22 | Llorean | So it doesn't add ANYTHING that will help ANYBODY AT ALL if we don't make it configurable? |
| 03:26:55 | JdGordon | it add something to some unknown amount of users, instead of adding plenty to all users who use playlisting |
| 03:28:23 | Llorean | This adds something to all users who use playlisting except those who want to save a playlist, haven't saved it yet, and want to add more songs into it that won't be saved. |
| 03:28:34 | Llorean | That's a pretty select group. |
| 03:29:42 | Llorean | Even then, they would have to never, ever, ever create a playlist without the intent of saving it, and never ever create a playlist with the intent of saving it without also wanting to queue songs in it to not benefit from this. |
| 03:29:46 | Llorean | Which narrows down the group even further. |
| 03:29:48 | JdGordon | also those that want to add a track and dont care when its played |
| 03:30:55 | Llorean | And never create playlists the other ways.' |
| 03:32:09 | JdGordon | if this is supposed to be a shortcut, why cant i choose what I tihnk would be the best shortcut for me? |
| 03:32:37 | JdGordon | or more correctly, why should you choose for me which you think I would use most... |
| 03:32:38 | Llorean | You could say the same thing about the "resume playback" button then. |
| 03:33:11 | Llorean | Why can't it always go to the last plugin, or the FM radio? |
| 03:33:27 | JdGordon | how? doesnt it already return you to the plast music screen? i.e wps or fm? |
| 03:33:29 | Llorean | I don't even know where you're getting calling it a "shortcut" from |
| 03:33:33 | | Quit dfkt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:33:35 | Llorean | I'd simply call it "the playlist insert button" |
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| 03:34:03 | Llorean | JdGordon: I said "always" and "plugin OR FM"... |
| 03:34:03 | JdGordon | it purpose is to speed up playlisting... how ca that not be called a shotcut? |
| 03:34:25 | Llorean | Are you claiming it won't speed up playlisting for a significant portion of users? |
| 03:34:39 | | Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) |
| 03:35:00 | JdGordon | yes, yes i am... it might speed up for some, but w have no idea how many users we have.. let alone how many use playlisting |
| 03:35:03 | | Join serendipity_ [0] (n=serendip@190.40.96.39) |
| 03:35:03 | Unhelpful | hrm, there's really no "generic directions + select/cancel" context, eh? |
| 03:35:07 | Llorean | You're simply trying to use misguided semantics to prove a point. Calling it a shortcut doesn't make it any more or less reasonable that it be configurable. |
| 03:35:07 | | Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 03:35:51 | Llorean | I could call the Menu button a "shortcut" to the menu. Should that be configurable? You can't deny it's faster than pressing left in the filetree until you get to root, then pressing left again. |
| 03:35:58 | Llorean | It's definitely a shortcut. |
| 03:36:21 | serendipity_ | hey all. i'm new to Rockbox. I want to install a plugin, but i cant find where to download them. For instance, http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginTextEditor has info on the TextEditor plugin, but no download link. |
| 03:36:29 | kugel | JdGordon: We're doing on DAPs, any action which wouldn't have something to do with music would be inappropriate. And As we cover all audio stuff already, playlisting is the only thing left anyway |
| 03:36:29 | JdGordon | shortcut can be used because its designed to be a quicker alternative to the usual way... |
| 03:36:32 | Llorean | serendipity_: Rockbox comes with all its plugins. |
| 03:36:41 | serendipity_ | really!? |
| 03:36:50 | Llorean | JdGordon: It's designed to be quicker alternative to the usual way of inserting songs. Your own definition. |
| 03:37:02 | serendipity_ | all plugins listed in http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginIndex are already installed? |
| 03:37:05 | | Quit _lifeless (Remote closed the connection) |
| 03:37:10 | JdGordon | Llorean: yes, thats what i said |
| 03:37:14 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@90.151.39.10) |
| 03:37:19 | Llorean | serendipity_: If they're appropriate to, and working on, your player, yes. |
| 03:37:25 | serendipity_ | oh |
| 03:37:27 | serendipity_ | thanks |
| 03:37:44 | Llorean | JdGordon: So the menu is a shortcut, but shouldn't be configurable. The insert button is a shortcut, but should. Because it's a shortcut. Even though Menu shouldn't?\ |
| 03:37:46 | kugel | JdGordon: You call it shortcut, I call it "making use of a unused button, which actually makes a *core |
| 03:37:47 | Llorean | that makes no sense. |
| 03:37:53 | kugel | * feature usable without pain |
| 03:38:04 | JdGordon | the menu isnt a shortcut... how are you supposed to get to it otherwise? |
| 03:38:16 | Llorean | JdGordon: From the filetree, press left until root, then left once more. |
| 03:38:26 | kugel | right |
| 03:38:29 | JdGordon | kugel: have i ever said im against the button usage? |
| 03:38:33 | Llorean | The menu button is entirely unnecessary. |
| 03:38:36 | Llorean | It's just a shortcut. |
| 03:39:06 | | Join plutonian [0] (n=plutonia@c-67-183-155-218.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:39:13 | Llorean | serendipity_: For many/most players it lists on the index whether your player has it or not |
| 03:39:20 | plutonian | does the AAFreak theme work with rockbox v3.1? |
| 03:39:31 | kugel | JdGordon: No, but you don't agree about making a core feature usable. You rather discuss about complicating things, which wouldn't be there for a good deal of our targets anyway |
| 03:39:42 | JdGordon | Llorean: is the only way for me to get you to actualy argue the pointis to se hebrew so you cant argue the meaning of the word? |
| 03:39:44 | serendipity_ | this is great |
| 03:39:54 | Unhelpful | plutonian: we don't make or maintain the themes, did you try it? |
| 03:40:05 | plutonian | it doesn't say anything about a patched build but it does mention that "Without Viewports, this theme wouldn't have been possible." |
| 03:40:05 | Llorean | JdGordon: You're the one who was saying "it's a shortcut" is the reason it should be configurable. I was merely pointing out it's not the only shortcut. |
| 03:40:14 | kugel | even if it was a shortcut, we actually cannot choose a non-redundant action, as the button isn't free on many targets |
| 03:40:17 | plutonian | are viewports in the official builds or are they a patch? |
| 03:40:19 | JdGordon | kugel: no.. im arguing to make it useable for everyone... you lot are sugesting only a unknmown subset should benefit |
| 03:40:29 | Unhelpful | viewports are an official feature for some time now |
| 03:40:34 | Llorean | JdGordon: If you don't think "being a shortcut" is a reason, feel free to retract that. Otherwise, feel free to explain how the menu button isn't a shortcut, when it does exactly what you defined a shortcut as doing. |
| 03:40:42 | kugel | And I still think we don't need configurability at all. Playlists is a core feature, so it just fits it's purpse |
| 03:40:47 | kugel | purpose |
| 03:40:57 | Llorean | kugel: He wants it configurable for all Insert/Queue options, rather than just one. |
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| 03:41:24 | kugel | this doesn't make any sense |
| 03:41:35 | kugel | virtually any of those is covered by insert |
| 03:41:41 | Llorean | Queue isn't really |
| 03:41:46 | Llorean | Nor are the two "Shuffled" variants |
| 03:42:06 | kugel | yes, shuffled not. But for queue, as you said, you just don't save the playlist, and are done |
| 03:42:10 | Llorean | But "Queue" only matters if you have an unsaved playlist with songs inserted, and don't wish to save it before adding songs that you don't wish to have saved in it. |
| 03:42:24 | kugel | queue is something I never understood the use for anyway |
| 03:42:31 | Llorean | For shuffled, you should be able to turn shuffle off and back on again to reshuffle your playlist anyway. |
| 03:43:04 | Llorean | It's not _perfect_ I'll admit, but it's about equally fast to going into the menu, reconfiguring what the one-button-press does, coming back, and then insert-shuffling everything |
| 03:43:15 | Llorean | At least, if you have "Shuffle" on the quickscreen |
| 03:43:20 | kugel | With insert, you can do almost anything and still need vastly less button presses for |
| 03:43:21 | Unhelpful | kugel: "don't save the playlist" doesn't cover the case where you want to have some songs that will be saved with the playlist, and some not... though i can't really say why you'd want to do that, that seems to be what queue is for. |
| 03:43:38 | kugel | Unhelpful: I never used queue, actually |
| 03:43:44 | Llorean | I've used queue. |
| 03:44:06 | Llorean | But usually if I'm listening to a short, repeating playlist and just want to hear a single song on this cycle, and not in future repeats. |
| 03:44:33 | kugel | well, once or twice, to see what it does. But after I saw what it does, I also saw that I won't ever need it again |
| 03:44:45 | plutonian | sweet, it does work |
| 03:44:59 | Llorean | I would bet money that, on average, among our userbase, "Insert" would be the most used action if all the playlist actions had an individual button each and people knew the full use of each of them. Since it's impossible to test though, that statement means nothing. |
| 03:45:03 | plutonian | the wiki article on viewports seemed to imply that it wasn't in the main build |
| 03:45:20 | kugel | insert is the most flexible one |
| 03:45:30 | Llorean | By far. |
| 03:45:35 | JdGordon | insert is broken... |
| 03:45:43 | JdGordon | inserting multiple anyway |
| 03:45:46 | Llorean | JdGordon: Broken how? |
| 03:46:05 | Llorean | And the feature should be considered off of a non-broken insert anyway. |
| 03:46:17 | JdGordon | you can get playlists like 1ABC23 (assuming 123 and ABC re in 2 seprate dirs) |
| 03:46:46 | plutonian | hmm |
| 03:46:48 | Llorean | So it doesn't put the pointer at the end of the list after doing an "insert" on a folder? |
| 03:46:55 | kugel | of course you can. play 1, insert ABC at once, then insert 2 and 3 seperately |
| 03:47:06 | plutonian | what does "Data abort at 000098BC (0)" mean? |
| 03:47:17 | Llorean | kugel: No, he means "If I insert the folder ABC then 123, I get A123BC instead of ABC123 |
| 03:47:24 | Llorean | Which is broken if he's not using "Insert Next" |
| 03:47:29 | JdGordon | Llorean: yeah, there is a long tracker task for that wth an argument if its actually broken or not |
| 03:47:42 | kugel | That's a bug then, which I've never experienced |
| 03:47:46 | Llorean | It's very broken if that's what it does right now. |
| 03:47:55 | Llorean | "Insert Next" is what you'd use to get the situation you've got. |
| 03:48:42 | Llorean | "Insert" should always insert *after* the last song of whatever you last inserted. That's not only the most flexible way, but the fact that it doesn't do it right now makes it impossible to get certain playlists without inserting things in reverse order. |
| 03:49:04 | JdGordon | although.. fine.. i do see the argumet that only insert queue and shuffled (Q and I) is needed and not the whole lot |
| 03:49:45 | kugel | and I still think that shuffle is mostly covered too, by taking a quick tour into the quickscreen |
| 03:50:03 | JdGordon | that ASSumes you still have shuffle on the qs |
| 03:50:11 | kugel | or just hit shuffle playlist, once after you're done adding 100s of songs |
| 03:50:34 | Llorean | kugel: There is the case where you don't want the songs you've already heard to be included in the shuffle, at least. So there is one specific case where it's true that "Shuffled" does something you can't accomplish otherwise. |
| 03:50:55 | kugel | yea, I said mostly. Sure there's edge cases |
| 03:51:00 | Llorean | JdGordon: Even going through the menus to find shuffle is going to take approximately as long as going through the menus to change the "Insert" setting to "Shuffled" |
| 03:51:28 | Llorean | So even if you don't assume it's in the QS, it's still a time saver vs the old method of having to go to the context menu for every item. |
| 03:51:41 | JdGordon | ? thats why im saying have the button there.. if you know you are usually going to want to insert shuffled have that set to the button |
| 03:52:20 | JdGordon | your making the assumption that most people will only use regular insert.. im saying make it possibl to make everyonehappy |
| 03:53:08 | Llorean | JdGordon: Do you think we should have the "resume playback" button configurable to mpegplayer, midiplayer, FM radio, and WPS? |
| 03:53:23 | JdGordon | no, and thats irrelevat anyway |
| 03:53:30 | kugel | You make everyone happy, I make 98% (the other 2% are the ones who don't want the songs they heard shuffled too) happy, but without adding unnecessary complexity |
| 03:53:35 | | Quit timc (Connection timed out) |
| 03:53:43 | Llorean | JdGordon: It's more or less the same situation, so it's not irrelevant. The arguments you used here apply exactly to that one as well. |
| 03:53:50 | Llorean | JdGordon: Why is this one case so "special" to you whereas you don't care about that one at all? |
| 03:53:51 | JdGordon | kugel: thats a stupid number... i can show you the same statement in reverse |
| 03:54:01 | kugel | I don't think so |
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| 03:54:13 | BUMBACL0T | any status on 6th gen |
| 03:54:13 | BUMBACL0T | ? |
| 03:54:13 | JdGordon | its not the same at all... why cant you tke each on seperatly? |
| 03:54:14 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a2732d012369b3ea) |
| 03:54:25 | Llorean | BUMBACL0T: No. Please don't ask. The forums will have updates if it ever changes. |
| 03:54:31 | krazykit | BUMBACL0T, no, and there won't be unless someone actually takes it upon themselves to do the work |
| 03:54:32 | JdGordon | kugel: you've got stats to support your 98% claim? |
| 03:54:33 | Llorean | JdGordon: the same arguments apply. |
| 03:54:34 | BUMBACL0T | thanks |
| 03:54:52 | JdGordon | Llorean: yes, but we arnt talking about changing the play button... |
| 03:54:56 | Llorean | JdGordon: Your argument is based _entirely_ on "we could make more people happy if we did this." There are a million things we could change for that reason. |
| 03:55:08 | JdGordon | indeed |
| 03:55:15 | Llorean | Why is this one one that we _should_ change, while those are ones we _shouldn't_ exactly? |
| 03:55:34 | saratoga | jhMikeS: seen dreamlayers DMA audio playback patch for PP ? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9949#comment28863 |
| 03:55:40 | JdGordon | I'm not saying we shouldt.... I am saying that we art talking about it... im saying it doesnt have to be all or none |
| 03:56:06 | Llorean | JdGordon: So your real position is "we should make many buttons configurable, but I'm only arguing one at a time"? |
| 03:56:34 | Llorean | My point is that this is a bigger issue than "just one button" and trying to pass it off as such is silly, because it's unrealistic to expect it won't then come up for several other buttons. |
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| 03:58:00 | Ctcp | Ignored 4 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 03:58:00 | * | JdGordon gives up and just continues to outright reject the patch as it is |
| 03:58:46 | Llorean | You reject it because we won't make a change to it that we won't make elsewhere in the source? |
| 03:59:34 | JdGordon | no, i reject it because its a stupid addition and its my right to object to patches i feel are useless... weather that counts for anything is another question |
| 03:59:59 | Llorean | What is a better addition that does not require a configurable button, then? |
| 04:00 |
| 04:00:19 | Llorean | If your rejection has nothing to do with configuration, suggest something that is actually better but non-configurable. |
| 04:00:48 | JdGordon | im not sayin there is a better suggestion that doesnt give configurability |
| 04:01:00 | Llorean | So it's the best suggestion that's non-configurable. |
| 04:01:28 | JdGordon | no, im saying the patch as it stands is stupid and pointless |
| 04:01:45 | JdGordon | and with minor tweaks wold be very usefull to everyone |
| 04:01:47 | Llorean | Stupid and pointless, in your opinion, but there's nothing better without configurability? |
| 04:02:11 | Llorean | I mean seriously, when you use words like "stupid and pointless" on a patch you're even willing to admit will be pretty useful, you just sound bitter. |
| 04:02:30 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 04:02:39 | JdGordon | i cant iagine why i ound bitter... maybe going round in circles on irrelevancies did that to me |
| 04:02:47 | Llorean | But if you can't suggest something better without requiring a configurable button, then even if it's "bad", if it's the best option within those bounds and it's still what we should do, since by definition the other options are worse. |
| 04:03:14 | * | kugel agrees |
| 04:03:19 | JdGordon | we already have plenty of configurability in rockbox |
| 04:03:34 | JdGordon | should we remove the volume setting because surely -6is good for everyone? |
| 04:03:34 | Llorean | JdGordon: You're the one who's going around in circles. You keep trying to "prove" your point with arguments that apply to dozens of other things, but you say they don't need changed why this does. And yet you've yet to explain what it is about this one thing that makes the arguments apply to it, but not anything else. |
| 04:03:51 | JdGordon | i have never said they dont need changes |
| 04:04:03 | JdGordon | all i have said is WE ARNT TALKING ABOUT THEM |
| 04:04:32 | Llorean | JdGordon: And I'm asking you why they aren't allowed to be talked about |
| 04:04:43 | Llorean | If your arguments are true, you should be arguing for a change in the configurable button policy in general |
| 04:05:00 | Llorean | If that's the case, it has nothing to do with his patch, but rather ALL buttons that could be configurable based on your reasons why they should be. |
| 04:05:00 | JdGordon | im not alone in my opinion of that policy |
| 04:05:27 | Llorean | yes, but you're trying to get that policy changed by avoiding arguing the policy, and calling a good patch "stupid" over and over in the hopes that you can get your toe in the door |
| 04:05:46 | Llorean | If you want to get the policy changed, argue the policy itself. Don't try to sneak in changes. |
| 04:06:27 | notlistening | Tx Llorean good night and take not prisoners ;) |
| 04:06:38 | notlistening | *no :P |
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| 04:07:03 | kugel | notlistening: hey, I just wanted to add that I agree that 64 are way more than needed. |
| 04:07:18 | kugel | I think 8MB should plenty already. |
| 04:07:46 | kugel | especially if you can get a non-crappy lcd for that |
| 04:07:46 | JdGordon | Llorean: besides I'm not sure why you get to call it a polisy when there is over 50 different settings |
| 04:07:57 | | Quit tarbo_ (Connection timed out) |
| 04:08:01 | notlistening | thanks kugel |
| 04:08:14 | JdGordon | including one to change the star screen which actually can cause support headaches |
| 04:08:19 | JdGordon | and the quickscren |
| 04:08:21 | notlistening | u mean for the cost difference |
| 04:09:02 | Llorean | JdGordon: So now your statement is "a configurable button is exactly the same as a configurable anything else"? Like the volume example you gave earlier? |
| 04:09:06 | kugel | JdGordon: You're basically objecting to the button policy, but yet you keep telling "we aren't talking about the other buttons", that doesn't make any other sense than trying to sneak in your toes |
| 04:09:30 | kugel | notlistening: yes |
| 04:09:42 | Llorean | JdGordon: All I'm saying is, if you want to get the button policy, argue the button policy. For this patch, when discussing it, we don't do configurable buttons so discuss this patch on the assumption that configurable buttons aren't an option. |
| 04:09:51 | Llorean | Once they are an option, it can always be re-visited. |
| 04:10:01 | kugel | well, I doubt the RAM will yield much savings nowadays, but still. 64MB is basically overkill. |
| 04:10:11 | kugel | for flash based players, that is |
| 04:10:33 | notlistening | I think maybe we need a this is what we are using and this is what we are aiming for page to clear up any myths about ethernet support etc etc |
| 04:11:32 | notlistening | 64 gigs of ram etc :D |
| 04:11:57 | notlistening | night all |
| 04:12:30 | kugel | notlistening: If you want to sell the thing, you need to pay attention on the selling points. As it has been said, you won't get rich ever just by saying it's an open design. And you won't attract much more people with an overdose of RAM either. But a decent LCD, that will get you some attention for sure |
| 04:13:48 | serendipity_ | oh man, rockbox is so much cooler than ipodlunix |
| 04:14:12 | serendipity_ | you all rock |
| 04:14:32 | * | serendipity_ just got it installed, am playing with it |
| 04:14:41 | notlistening | battery lcd and flexibility it storage options are my key features and that it lasts |
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| 04:34:17 | kevin__ | hey, I'm having some problems unbricking my sansa c250 |
| 04:34:29 | kevin__ | I've followed the instructions here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick |
| 04:35:03 | kevin__ | but every time the c250 resets, I end up with the same problem (only blue led is on) |
| 04:35:33 | | Quit AndyIL (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:35:47 | Strife89 | I thought there was a c200 page now. |
| 04:36:25 | | Quit dfkt (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 04:36:38 | kevin__ | hm I didn't find one |
| 04:36:45 | kevin__ | I'll try looking again |
| 04:36:49 | Strife89 | c200tools, at the least. |
| 04:38:22 | kevin__ | Sorry, but I can't seem to find anything ): |
| 04:38:32 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 04:38:42 | Strife89 | Well, nuts. |
| 04:39:01 | | Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.6/2009022714]") |
| 04:39:12 | Strife89 | I have no browser on me, so I can't look.... |
| 04:40:30 | | Quit Barahir (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:41:41 | kevin__ | hm do you know what might be the problem though? |
| 04:41:49 | kevin__ | everything seems to work fine |
| 04:42:00 | kevin__ | I've been able to get into recovery mode using e200tool |
| 04:42:05 | kevin__ | and I can see the 16mb drive |
| 04:42:33 | kevin__ | but after copying mi4 and disconnecting, nothing seems to change |
| 04:42:39 | Strife89 | There are many different versions of the OF. |
| 04:43:03 | kevin__ | oh |
| 04:43:04 | Strife89 | You might be using the wrong version .mi4. |
| 04:43:11 | kevin__ | oh ok |
| 04:43:37 | Strife89 | Double-check the page you got it from. |
| 04:44:09 | Strife89 | Also, aren't you supposed to copy a certian text file as well? |
| 04:44:10 | kevin__ | http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/mi4.html |
| 04:44:20 | Strife89 | I can't remember. |
| 04:44:25 | kevin__ | there's only 1 c200 file |
| 04:44:52 | Strife89 | That might not be the page you need. |
| 04:45:05 | Strife89 | There was another... |
| 04:45:38 | Strife89 | I can't look unless I get off IRC and reboot my DS. |
| 04:45:47 | kevin__ | should I try the c200erase instructions? |
| 04:46:01 | Strife89 | Not just yet. |
| 04:46:17 | kevin__ | alright |
| 04:46:26 | Strife89 | Will you wait here while I go look?' |
| 04:46:33 | kevin__ | sure |
| 04:46:37 | kevin__ | btw I really appreciate the help |
| 04:47:22 | Strife89 | Not a problem. :) |
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| 04:49:48 | Strife89 | kevin__: I'll go once I've settled a conversation with scorche. |
| 04:50:07 | Strife89 | Oops, I meant soap. |
| 04:50:19 | kevin__ | k |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:02:44 | Strife89 | kevin__: Found it. |
| 05:03:38 | Strife89 | www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaC200Port |
| 05:04:27 | Strife89 | Scroll down to Recovery Mode and carefully follow what you can. |
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| 05:05:41 | kevin__ | ok |
| 05:07:25 | kevin__ | well I can't get into recovery mode normally :/ |
| 05:07:54 | Strife89 | But you can with the e200 tool? |
| 05:08:14 | kevin__ | yeah |
| 05:08:42 | Strife89 | Hmmm... you might have to mix'n'match a little... |
| 05:09:26 | Strife89 | Also, I think this is a page: www.rockbox.org/wiki/c200tools |
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| 05:10:04 | kevin__ | doesn't work ): |
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| 05:10:24 | Strife89 | Hmmm, darn. |
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| 05:10:46 | Strife89 | I can't remember its name, then. |
| 05:12:56 | Strife89 | Can you look at the list of recently changed Wiki pages? |
| 05:13:25 | Strife89 | Do you know what the link for that is? |
| 05:13:54 | kevin__ | umm |
| 05:13:57 | kevin__ | i don't think so |
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| 05:14:35 | cool_walking_ | http://rockbox.org/wiki/WebChanges |
| 05:14:49 | kevin__ | oh, thanks |
| 05:15:07 | Strife89 | cool_walking_: Saves me some tapping, thanks. :) |
| 05:15:47 | Strife89 | Look for an entry with "tools" in the name.... |
| 05:16:09 | kevin__ | there's UsefulTools |
| 05:16:14 | Strife89 | I'm quite certain it was updated... |
| 05:16:40 | Strife89 | UsefulTools might help, but I'm not certian. |
| 05:17:01 | Strife89 | Damn, I wish I had my laptop on me.... |
| 05:18:12 | kevin__ | only other ones with tools are DesktopTools and DevelopmentTools |
| 05:18:21 | kevin__ | but those were updated in 2008 |
| 05:18:32 | Strife89 | Those aren't it. |
| 05:19:19 | Strife89 | There was another page... I can't remember the title.... |
| 05:19:28 | cool_walking_ | What are you looking for? |
| 05:19:58 | Strife89 | The page of c200 recovery tools. |
| 05:20:15 | Strife89 | Such as the one gevaerts coded. |
| 05:20:57 | kevin__ | oh |
| 05:21:06 | kevin__ | well I found an irc log with a similar problem to mine |
| 05:21:31 | kevin__ | and there were links to a c250repair tool |
| 05:21:37 | kevin__ | but the links are dead now :/ |
| 05:21:43 | Strife89 | I can't search by hand unless I reboot the DS, load the browser, find it, and reboot again to reconnect to IRC. |
| 05:21:56 | cool_walking_ | http://rockbox.org/wiki/SansaE200Unbrick links to e200tool |
| 05:22:26 | Strife89 | He used that, I believe, |
| 05:22:37 | Strife89 | with minimal success. |
| 05:23:11 | cool_walking_ | oh, I should read more |
| 05:23:28 | Strife89 | :) |
| 05:24:20 | Strife89 | I badly wish I had the DS Opera browser kit. |
| 05:24:24 | | Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") |
| 05:24:24 | | Quit Horscht ("Verlassend") |
| 05:25:44 | Strife89 | Or that my Palm had a WiFi radio. |
| 05:27:15 | Strife89 | ... I'm sorry, kevin__, but I need some sleep. |
| 05:27:24 | kevin__ | alright |
| 05:27:37 | kevin__ | do you think i should try the erase tool :/ |
| 05:27:47 | Strife89 | I'll check in sometime tomorrow. |
| 05:28:16 | Strife89 | kevin__: If you can't find anything else, it's worth a shot. |
| 05:28:31 | Strife89 | Just have some firmware handy. |
| 05:28:41 | kevin__ | ok |
| 05:29:01 | kevin__ | thanks |
| 05:29:11 | Strife89 | But anyway, good luck, and good night. :) |
| 05:29:21 | Strife89 | No problem. :) |
| 05:29:52 | Strife89 | See you later. |
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| 06:00 |
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| 06:08:05 | Unhelpful | hrm, how hard would it be to have a custom-drawn list like the pictureflow track list "work like" the core file or DB browser? ie, use the same buttons for scrolling, select/exit, etc? |
| 06:09:55 | Llorean | What's the problem with doing that? |
| 06:11:01 | Unhelpful | only that i have no idea how to do it :) |
| 06:12:08 | Llorean | Ah. |
| 06:12:14 | Unhelpful | it seems that the PF track list would be easiest to use if it had the same button map as the core browsers, with the back/cancel button returning you to the album view. |
| 06:12:16 | Llorean | Can you use core contexts in plugins? |
| 06:12:42 | Unhelpful | the album view, if it's going to keep using PLA, should probably only be using generic_left_right_fire |
| 06:13:57 | Unhelpful | ugh, that leaves it without a menu key. i can see some dislike PLA so much... |
| 06:14:12 | Llorean | PLA only works well in _really_ simple situations. |
| 06:15:19 | Unhelpful | it really seems like *every* context ought to include a menu key. |
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| 06:17:31 | Llorean | I kinda think that there should be one standard context for "up, down, left, right, select, menu" with the option to either use that and customize the other keys, or go all-out customization. |
| 06:17:40 | Llorean | Basically, make the job "easier" in a general sense, but don't get all complex. |
| 06:17:56 | Unhelpful | perhaps i ought to avoid PLA entirely, and just use the rb->get_custom_action that it calls :) |
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| 06:18:42 | plutonian | is it possible to get rockbox to work on an ext3 filesystem? |
| 06:19:02 | plutonian | or anything other than fat32 for that matter? |
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| 06:19:06 | Unhelpful | no. |
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| 06:21:56 | Unhelpful | i believe FAT16 support can be enabled at compile time, although it's not in standard builds. why would you want something else on your DAP, anyway? FAT is widely supported, simple to implement, and not a large drain on CPU. |
| 06:22:50 | plutonian | fat32 doesn't support filesystem labels with no capital letters |
| 06:23:11 | plutonian | not a real issue by any stretch of the imagination, but it strikes me as silly |
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| 06:25:36 | plutonian | it's also sort of annoying to not be able to have :'s and ?'s in filenames |
| 06:26:10 | plutonian | I don't like to have to look at Batboy_ The Musical |
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| 06:26:56 | plutonian | or Crisis_ What Crisis_ |
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| 06:28:10 | Unhelpful | i have tracks with / in their metadata, but i'm not too keen on implementing some new FS that will allow absolutely anything but NULL. you could use the database... |
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| 06:37:32 | Unhelpful | Llorean: it looks like i'd just call rb->get_action to use any core context i want. i don't think there's one that will do for the album list, is there? |
| 06:38:33 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 06:40:23 | Llorean | Unhelpful: Don't you just want to duplicate the context the normal list uses? |
| 06:43:10 | Unhelpful | for the track list, yes. for the album list, we want horizontal scrolling, select, quit, and menu actions. |
| 06:44:37 | Llorean | Oh |
| 06:44:45 | Llorean | Sorry, got mixed up. |
| 06:44:56 | Llorean | Yeah, I can't imagine one for the album list in core, no. |
| 06:46:10 | | Quit planetbeing_ () |
| 06:46:13 | Unhelpful | i can see the WPS context making sense, possibly, with the seek/skip buttons mapped to scrolling... but that wouldn't be right at all on the e200, where clearly one ought to always scroll with the wheel. |
| 06:47:09 | Llorean | Yeah |
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| 06:59:23 | Unhelpful | it seems like PLA *might* be ablet to handle the album list, if there's some way i can rely upon keys defined in the left/right/fire mapping taking precedence over the generic actions one... |
| 07:00 |
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| 08:02:33 | * | amiconn is building for recorder with pf-hwcodec patch |
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| 08:33:19 | Unhelpful | amiconn: actually, it worked on the sim, it's plugin-only, and i don't think anything further can be done to test it except on targets, anyway, so it's also r20213 :) |
| 08:34:32 | amiconn | Unhelpful: It's working :) Some remarks: (1) The startup screen looks funny, as it is black-on white with the logo looking inverted. Also the progress bar is huge. (2) Creating the album art cache took ~15 minutes. Not too bad when taking into account that it also takes a few minutes e.g. on the irivers. |
| 08:35:10 | Unhelpful | recorder have the same funky control issues as ondio sp sim? |
| 08:35:17 | amiconn | (3) 4 fps while scrolling around. 3 fps with steady display |
| 08:35:33 | Unhelpful | ahahahah... that's pretty awful :) |
| 08:35:33 | rasher | How does that look? |
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| 08:36:17 | amiconn | No, the controls are almost like I expect them to be. Only leaving the tracklist isn't |
| 08:36:30 | amiconn | The tracklist achieves ~6 fps |
| 08:37:34 | amiconn | Actually the tracklist fps depends on the track names |
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| 08:38:13 | * | Unhelpful is proud of having done so much for something so useless :) |
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| 08:40:08 | amiconn | The covers are quite recognisable (my recorder has the white backlight mod). |
| 08:41:15 | * | amiconn needs to think a bit about full screen animation on this thing |
| 08:41:43 | Unhelpful | in what way? |
| 08:42:11 | amiconn | The greylib itself achieves 36fps, so that's not the limiting factor |
| 08:42:45 | Unhelpful | well, there are a few fmul and fdiv calls per column rendered |
| 08:43:41 | amiconn | I know. Perhaps some could be reduced to 16*16->32. That is two instrcutions instead of a subroutine |
| 08:44:42 | Unhelpful | given what you've said about shifts on sh1, you might also consider changing PFREAL_SHIFT to 8 (it's 10 now)... but that means redoing the sine table, as well. |
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| 08:45:26 | amiconn | But even at 4fps, pf is already usable. It would probably be better to reduce the slowdown-when-achieving-centre if the fps are low |
| 08:45:37 | amiconn | Are these signed or unsigned shifts? |
| 08:46:37 | Unhelpful | well, PFreal is defined as a signed type, but the values in question are going to be unsigned in many of the right-shift cases |
| 08:47:36 | Unhelpful | would a ((some unsigned type)val) >> shift suffice to make the assembler use logical shifts without adding any other nastiness? |
| 08:48:01 | amiconn | I would think so |
| 08:48:57 | amiconn | >>10 for signed is 10 instructions on SH1 (and probably using a subroutine with those instructions), for signed it's two instructions (shlr8 + shlr2) |
| 08:49:27 | amiconn | Eh, for *unsigned* it's two instructions |
| 08:50:03 | Unhelpful | so making sure the shift is unsigned is probably worth more than changing the shift amount |
| 08:50:56 | | Quit cool_walking_ ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 08:51:59 | Unhelpful | you might also want to look at fdiv. i experimented with a function that would shift left as far as possible and return the amount shifted, instead of using clz and shifting by that amount. that might be a win vs clz calculation followed by a variable shift. |
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| 08:55:06 | Unhelpful | ... yes, i'm pretty sure all of the right shifts can be forced to unsigned, in the loop that fetches the actual pixels. |
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| 09:00 |
| 09:02:32 | amiconn | Are you referring to the big loop in render_slide()? |
| 09:07:12 | Unhelpful | the while loops betwen lines 1488 and 1541 |
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| 09:07:20 | amiconn | yeah |
| 09:07:56 | amiconn | I tried it, and it does indeed get faster. Now it almost always shows 4fps (once the cache is loaded), and sometimes 5fps |
| 09:08:07 | Unhelpful | the divide by PFREAL_ONE at 1473 should also be of a positive value |
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| 09:09:45 | amiconn | It's quite noticeable when scrolling around. Line 1473 will have much less an effect (only once per column instead of every pixel) |
| 09:11:52 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Do the alpha cases occur often (the reflection stuff)? |
| 09:12:22 | amiconn | I mean the last of the 3 while loops in the if() and the else block |
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| 09:13:18 | amiconn | These are some good candidates for multiplication optimisation (especially fade_color()) |
| 09:13:47 | Unhelpful | those alpha values serve different purposes, actually. the one in the if is passed to render_slide, and is used when fading whole slides in and out, as for the outermost slides, and the fade when transitioning to tracklist |
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| 09:14:59 | Unhelpful | the one in the last while loop is done in etiher case, and handles reflection fading. the reflection height is about a third of the screen height, less for columns rendered further away. |
| 09:15:01 | amiconn | Well, the "colours" passed to fade_color are actually 8 bit values, as is the alpha (well, alpha can be 256), correct? |
| 09:15:34 | * | amiconn adds casts to (unsigned short) in fade_color() |
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| 09:18:09 | Unhelpful | well, the alphas in the reflection table are always <256 in practice, and the passed alpha is always <256 when it's applied, since 256 is special-cased to avoid the multiplication entirely... so i think you could get away with treating the value as 0-255, if there are any relevant optimizations, such as an unsigned 8x8->16 multiply? |
| 09:18:50 | amiconn | Such does not exist on SH1, but 16*16->32 does (both signed and unsigned) |
| 09:19:08 | amiconn | Doesn't seem to help atm - will do further tests tonight |
| 09:19:12 | Unhelpful | a 16*16->16 would suffice if it exists and is cheaper |
| 09:19:37 | amiconn | 16*16->32 is the only native multiplication instruction on SH1 |
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| 09:20:31 | amiconn | It also has mac (won't help in pf though). 16*16->32+42->42 |
| 09:20:59 | amiconn | The 42 is not a typo |
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| 11:00 |
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| 11:09:58 | pixelma | rasher: for responses of cabbiev2 (port) makers you could also try posting in the "ongoing default theme contest" thread, some of them are still quite active in the forums and notice |
| 11:10:23 | | Join dfkt [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 11:11:15 | rasher | And are we sure we *do* want to relicense to cc-by-sa-3? |
| 11:13:21 | pixelma | no, I'm not. Though I don't see what could be wrong with it when themes you want to upload to the theme site would require it. I don't know a lot about licensing so I'm probably not the right one to asl |
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| 11:13:27 | pixelma | *ask |
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| 11:44:13 | linuxstb | rasher: Regarding the themes site, what functionality have you implemented (or are planning to implement) ? |
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| 11:45:20 | bazzawilleee | hey can anybody tell me quickly how to determine the firmware version on a sansa e250 so I can tell a ebay seller? |
| 11:45:39 | rasher | So far displaying of themes, uploading of themes, verification of the .zip structure (no .wps syntax check yet - but that's the plan) and verification of email, the beginnings of an admin panel where themes can be hidden/deleted. |
| 11:46:10 | linuxstb | So every theme uploader will need to provide a valid email address? |
| 11:46:17 | rasher | Yes |
| 11:46:24 | rasher | Not only valid, but one they control |
| 11:46:28 | linuxstb | OK, sounds sensible. |
| 11:46:46 | BigBambi | bazzawilleee: It is in system - info or something similar in the Sansa firmware |
| 11:46:53 | linuxstb | Are themes automatically published, or does an administrator need to press a button? |
| 11:47:11 | rasher | I think the idea is to publish automaticly |
| 11:47:25 | BigBambi | I think one of these silly US laws needs that |
| 11:47:39 | bazzawilleee | thanks bigbambi I will pass it on |
| 11:47:41 | rasher | Well, it puts us in a better situation iiuc |
| 11:47:53 | BigBambi | DMCA or whatever, to qualify for safe harbour |
| 11:48:09 | * | scorche nods in agreement |
| 11:48:15 | Unhelpful | amiconn: any multiply larger than 16*16->32 goes to a libgcc function on sh1, right? i may be able to speed up the downscaler a good bit, some of the per-output-column-per-input-row multiplies can be limited to the hardware multiply size without restricting image size unreasonably |
| 11:48:31 | rasher | It's not really an issue to do one or the other by default |
| 11:48:40 | rasher | So whichever we decide on |
| 11:49:01 | linuxstb | I think it makes sense to publish automatically anyway - it's easier for us. |
| 11:49:08 | BigBambi | I think given that it is hosted in the US (or will be), it pretty much has to be automatic |
| 11:49:14 | | Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 11:49:23 | BigBambi | and it is easier :) |
| 11:50:58 | scorche | are there themes still created that are not compatible with svn rockbox?...for a reason other than "age", i guess |
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| 11:51:49 | linuxstb | rasher: When you check a theme zip, do you also look for a remote wps? |
| 11:53:04 | linuxstb | scorche: I expect so (multi-font for one), but I thought it was agreed we would only host svn-compatible themes? So the validation should hopefully reject them - but IIRC the wps parser doesn't reject unknown tags, it just ignores them. It only gives errors when a tag is misused. |
| 11:53:43 | rasher | linuxstb: I detect if zero or one rwps exists, yes. But the fact is not currently stored (that's based on the target the uploader selects). It should probably be a bit smarter there |
| 11:54:00 | | Part bazzawilleee |
| 11:54:49 | scorche | linuxstb: multifont was the only one i could think of, yeah....and i dont see a problem with hosting only svn-compatible themes now...especially as it will be linked in to rbutil... |
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| 11:59:05 | linuxstb | rasher: That's always the kind of thing that can be added later (i.e. scanning the uploaded files and identifying those with a .rwps). I don't want to distract you from the basics, so ignore me... |
| 11:59:16 | | Quit homielowe () |
| 11:59:50 | linuxstb | rasher: But what list of targets are being used? I wasn't sure about that when I was working on the site. Are you actually using target names, or just lcd sizes/depths ? |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:10 | rasher | A bit of a mix, actually |
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| 12:00:51 | rasher | Uploaders give the site a target name, but it stores the LCD dimensions |
| 12:01:10 | rasher | Visitors pick a target, but the site picks themes that match that target's LCD dimensions |
| 12:01:47 | pixelma | what about themes with more than one rwps (e.g. cabbiev2) - is the site clever enough to package "on demand"? |
| 12:02:04 | rasher | A theme can't have more than one rwps. |
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| 12:02:48 | rasher | The theme site deals in individual themes, not packages like the source |
| 12:03:17 | pixelma | a theme can as quite a few in SVN do, of course there will only be one for each target's zip... ok, that's what I wanted to know |
| 12:04:21 | rasher | I don't think it'd be worth it to add that complexity. I think it's quite reasonable to have uploaders upload different theme versions individually |
| 12:06:42 | pixelma | I think it won't happen very often but if someone wants to upload a theme for more than one target it could be a bit annoying |
| 12:06:50 | pixelma | s/target/display |
| 12:06:55 | scorche | also, just as another reminder, if anyone has any ideas for GSoC, please put them down here...if we wish to be accepted, we really need to have this page fleshed out a bit more http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SummerOfCode2009 If we have no more ideas, perhaps we can give each idea in this a bit more detail about how it should be accomplished... |
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| 12:08:21 | rasher | pixelma: Frankly, I think having to package your different themes into the "package" format would be more work |
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| 12:12:03 | linuxstb | scorche: What's the deadline for GSoC? |
| 12:12:39 | scorche | linuxstb: organization apps are accepted next week (9th to the 13th) |
| 12:14:51 | rasher | Man, timestretch is only a 3+3kb bin/ramsize increase? |
| 12:15:12 | rasher | That's bloody nice going |
| 12:18:51 | pondlife | rasher: Perhaps you could try the latest version (090306b)? ;) |
| 12:19:20 | pondlife | Any reports welcome, I'm hanging around for them... |
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| 12:24:20 | pixelma | pondlife: I too think it doesn't belong into the thread you posted too, but I don't understand how your button "table" works with 6 buttons |
| 12:24:33 | pixelma | s/too/to |
| 12:24:52 | pondlife | Did I count wrong? |
| 12:25:18 | pondlife | LEFT/RIGHT/UP/DOWN/MENU/SELECT/PLAY/STOP - oops, that's 8 |
| 12:25:32 | pondlife | I knew I was making some silliness |
| 12:26:27 | pondlife | For some reason I was looking at UP/DOWN and LEFT/RIGHT as single buttons :/ |
| 12:26:41 | linuxstb | "PLAY/STOP" is one button on at least ipods though, so that could make 7... |
| 12:26:54 | pixelma | and yes, the Ondio is the most restricted wrt buttons or better "actions", it has 6 buttons (the Ipod has 5 + scroll fwd/back). Still it has a very intuitive mapping, better than other targets |
| 12:27:34 | pondlife | Forget the existing mapping, I was trying to remove that from the equation... but I got it horribly wrong. |
| 12:27:52 | pondlife | Is the Ondio mapping in the wiki still correct? |
| 12:30:20 | pixelma | the only limitation there is, is it doesn't have a quickscreen due to that. Which wiki page (never looked at it so can't answer the question)? |
| 12:30:59 | pondlife | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebSearch?topic=KeymapOndio |
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| 12:31:29 | pixelma | Also - if you mean button combos with the "shift" key, there are some targets where button combos are not possible |
| 12:31:45 | pixelma | pondlife: I'd suggest looking at an Ondio manual |
| 12:31:47 | pondlife | Yes, I'm aware that multi-buttons is of limited use |
| 12:31:51 | pondlife | OK, will do |
| 12:32:12 | pixelma | or a sim |
| 12:33:15 | pondlife | Hmm, so the Ondio lacks a PLAY button (i.e. resume from browser or menus)? |
| 12:33:32 | pixelma | no |
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| 12:34:27 | lasser | hi! I just compiled RB 20213 and got this error: |
| 12:34:29 | lasser | Warning: character 8491 goes 1 pixel(s) beyond the font's ascent, it will be clipped |
| 12:34:31 | lasser | Warning: DWIDTH spec > max FONTBOUNDINGBOX |
| 12:34:33 | lasser | Warning: 200 characters out of 812 were clipped (162 at ascent, 38 at descent) |
| 12:34:34 | lasser | max overflows: ascent: 4, descent: 2 |
| 12:34:36 | lasser | What is going wrong? |
| 12:34:46 | pixelma | pondlife: ok, it has no "Play" button but resume is a short press of "Mode" from the browsers or menus |
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| 12:35:21 | pondlife | Ah, so Mode = PLAY, long Modw = MENU ? |
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| 12:35:36 | pixelma | lasser: nothing, it just tells you that some fonts are a bit broken, it's just a warning |
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| 12:35:49 | pondlife | Note my capitals refer not to physical buttons, just to my imaginary ones ;) |
| 12:35:50 | pixelma | pondlife: yes |
| 12:35:55 | pondlife | Gotcha |
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| 12:37:36 | pondlife | pixelma: Is there a way to stop playback from the browser? |
| 12:37:44 | pondlife | I can't see it listed. |
| 12:38:19 | pixelma | pondlife: it also has no real one button access to the menu from the WPS (either go through the WPS context menu or through the file browser), I don't miss one and find the other two more important to access |
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| 12:38:52 | rasher | lasser: the font converter got more strict. Nothing to worry about |
| 12:38:54 | pondlife | Basically, it lacks dedicated MENU and STOP buttons in my terminology |
| 12:39:25 | pixelma | pondlife: seems to stop playback in the browsers when I press the "On/Off" button |
| 12:39:40 | lasser | pixelma, rasher : ok, thanks! |
| 12:39:48 | pondlife | Ah, yes |
| 12:43:51 | pondlife | pixelma: One more question if you don't mind: In the WPS, long On/Off is used to stop playback. Does this mean there's an even longer hold required for power off? |
| 12:44:00 | pondlife | i.e. short/long/longer |
| 12:45:40 | pixelma | yes, and I can't remember shutting down accidentally though |
| 12:46:07 | pondlife | OK, that's fine |
| 12:46:23 | pondlife | It explains my misunderstanding, will think some more |
| 12:48:06 | pixelma | Basically, it lacks dedicated MENU and STOP buttons in my terminology <- to me the main difference is that there is no dedicated "Select" button |
| 12:48:32 | pondlife | Ah - right is used instead... |
| 12:49:30 | pondlife | Can you pause in the WPS? |
| 12:49:41 | pondlife | Ah, short On/Off |
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| 12:52:00 | pixelma | the right/select thing is something people claim to be almost redundent on other targets. The only difference is that there is no horizontal scroll due to it (well there is with a combo) but that's not important at all to me |
| 12:52:48 | pondlife | It's largely redundant. I mainly use select for the context menu. |
| 12:53:24 | pondlife | Long MENU makes just as much sense for that anyway. |
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| 13:13:00 | pixelma | pondlife: someone reminded me of the fact that teh Player also only has 6 buttons ;) |
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| 13:13:30 | pondlife | We should only need 6 buttons :) |
| 13:15:29 | domonoky | indeed, my archos player has only 6 buttons. it is the absolute minimum we need for rockbox. more are better :-) |
| 13:21:36 | pixelma | as it seems though, the number of buttons alone don't tell the whole story... :\ |
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| 14:31:36 | rasher | Why does switching language stop playback? |
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| 14:40:55 | LinusN | rasher: maybe to load the voice file? |
| 14:44:25 | rasher | But there is no voicefile. And why not restart it afterwards anyway? |
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| 14:47:24 | LinusN | beats me |
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| 15:50:28 | kugel | pondlife: are you planning to commit before 3.2 or after? |
| 15:50:41 | pondlife | Before, I hope |
| 15:51:30 | pondlife | Why do you ask? |
| 15:51:53 | kugel | oh, I'm just curious. freeze is in 3 days |
| 15:52:02 | pondlife | Yep :) |
| 15:52:03 | * | kugel would like to have the disable wps update or rec button for playlist before 3.2 too, but tends to mess things up before releases too |
| 15:52:41 | ldp | Are you guys the developers? |
| 15:53:11 | evilnick | If a new feature is added before the freeze then you have all the time in the freeze period to fix it up! |
| 15:53:19 | pondlife | Yes |
| 15:53:28 | pondlife | evilnick: ^ |
| 15:53:36 | ldp | Good work |
| 15:54:00 | pondlife | But I'd rather not commit something that needs fixing up... |
| 15:54:10 | The-Compiler | ldp: some of the guys here are ;) |
| 15:54:53 | ldp | I see |
| 15:55:34 | pondlife | I think of the freeze as a beta test period. Patches on the tracker don't get enough testing until the get into SVN, often. |
| 15:56:37 | Llorean | If you want something to get wide testing, you should commit it right after 3.2. Not immediately before. |
| 15:56:46 | evilnick | pondlife: It does make it a lot easier to get feedback as all the users who can't/don't compile get to report their findings. |
| 15:57:12 | Llorean | If it doesn't work out right before the freeze, you're just putting more things in we might have to cut and potentially end up with a 3.2 less stable than it could be. The whole point of release versions is to hope to have them stable. |
| 15:57:19 | Llorean | Is there some rush why the feature can't be in 3.3 instead? |
| 15:57:20 | pondlife | Llorean: Does is make much difference? I am happy to wait if that's what people would prefer. |
| 15:57:50 | Llorean | pondlife: In my mind, the freeze is the "formal" freeze. Shortly before that, people should be cautious about what they commit, and commit things that are _very_ unlikely to have problems. |
| 15:58:04 | Llorean | We want 3.2 as stable as possible, rather than aiming for a lot of new features. |
| 15:58:10 | Llorean | Others may disagree, though |
| 15:58:23 | pondlife | Ah, ok. I thought of it as a "feature complete" point, mainly. |
| 15:58:36 | pondlife | No rush on my behalf, certainly. |
| 15:59:05 | Llorean | I don't think two weeks is long enough to reliably go from "feature complete but possibly buggy" to "we're confident there's a minimal set of bugs" personally. |
| 15:59:47 | Llorean | In my mind the best time to get new features in, is when they have the longest period to be tested. |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:19 | pondlife | March 24th then :) |
| 16:00:35 | Llorean | Nah |
| 16:00:43 | Llorean | A week before that, because you can just commit it to the non-release branch |
| 16:02:38 | Llorean | Though if it's expected to work very well, I don't really see a problem with going for it now. |
| 16:02:42 | | Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:02:56 | Llorean | kugel: The record button for playlist still needs to be adapted for all targets, and have a function picked for in the menus, right? |
| 16:03:38 | pondlife | kugel: Were you still allowing "no action" for that button? |
| 16:04:14 | | Part ldp |
| 16:04:20 | | Part LinusN |
| 16:04:29 | n1s | pondlife: did the speedup patch get tested with audio that needed to be upsampled? |
| 16:04:50 | pondlife | n1s: Not as far as I know, but please do |
| 16:05:16 | pondlife | (Or, if you can provide me such audio, I'll do it.) |
| 16:05:27 | Llorean | pondlife: We don't typically give users the option to turn off and on buttons... |
| 16:05:36 | * | n1s has no such audio |
| 16:05:55 | Llorean | Instead of thinking "configurable buttons" think "which button function adds the most functionality to Rockbox's featureset." |
| 16:06:43 | pondlife | Guess I can always toggle hold. |
| 16:07:21 | Llorean | The issue of configurable buttons is an issue that can be discussed, but it really should be outside what this patch does (since if it's accepted, then new functions can be added to this or possibly other buttons anyway) |
| 16:07:46 | Llorean | But for this patch's sake, it shouldn't be held up on what may or may not be an indefinite debate on whether configurable buttons (either in a limited sense, or unlimited) are a good idea. |
| 16:08:16 | * | n1s is starting to like the idea of configurable buttons actually, probably limited to the "non essential" ones though |
| 16:09:14 | * | pondlife doesn't like the idea of core buttons being configurable, nor of "special buttons", and believes that ultimately Rockbox will have .keymap files or somesuch... |
| 16:15:26 | Llorean | n1s: The problem is, we're still picking and choosing what we think is essential. |
| 16:15:42 | Llorean | We've already had people try to argue that things like seeking are nonessential and the buttons should be freed up for other things. |
| 16:16:09 | n1s | Llorean: i mean essential as "enough to fix messed up buttonmaps" basically |
| 16:16:25 | Llorean | n1s: I don't understand. |
| 16:16:36 | n1s | what is more important is the hw limitations though, not all buttons can be used in combos etc |
| 16:17:41 | n1s | Llorean: that depends on how the maps are done of course, it it is like a theme file then i guess i think any button that can be mapped should be possible to map |
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| 16:39:12 | kugel | Llorean: a function picked for the menus? So we did not agree on Insert? |
| 16:42:00 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:42:11 | rasher | kugel: It'd probably be nice to include something other than the FS number in the commit message. |
| 16:43:22 | kugel | rasher: well, why? You can klick on the FS and get all information |
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| 16:43:37 | rasher | That only works on the front page... |
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| 16:44:06 | rasher | Not in the commit mails, not in viewvc, not in svn log |
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| 16:45:15 | kugel | pondlife: how would I allow no action? There's no configurability in this patch |
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| 16:45:50 | pondlife | I just wondered it you'd consider adding an option for that, that's all. Not a biggie though |
| 16:46:16 | pondlife | I'm just very used to using REC to turn on the backlight |
| 16:46:25 | pondlife | Will toggle hold instead |
| 16:46:27 | serendipity_ | are there development tools for mac? |
| 16:46:45 | kugel | pondlife: I'm not..I exclusively use hold for that |
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| 16:47:11 | pondlife | I'll just re-educate my fingers... |
| 16:47:13 | kugel | very rarely other buttons too, since I have "first button press enables backlight only" enabled |
| 16:47:33 | n1s | serendipity_: the standard linux tools should work fine on osx |
| 16:47:50 | serendipity_ | oh, nifty |
| 16:47:52 | n1s | the wiki has all the juicy info on setting up a dev environment |
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| 16:51:19 | serendipity_ | ...is the WTFPL considered a compatible license for releasing a WPS under (and not having it end up in the graveyard)? Thats what I like to release any of my work involving photoshop under |
| 16:54:46 | rasher | serendipity_: It'd be nice if you dual-licensed it, just so there's less confusion |
| 16:55:13 | serendipity_ | you can do that? |
| 16:55:30 | serendipity_ | release something under two? |
| 16:55:34 | serendipity_ | humm. ok |
| 16:55:35 | rasher | Sure |
| 16:55:59 | rasher | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-licensing |
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| 16:57:20 | rasher | As long as it's all your work, you can do whatever you like with it. We encourage people to pick CC-BY-SA 3.0, so there's less confusion about licenses |
| 16:57:21 | serendipity_ | thanks rasher |
| 16:58:12 | linuxstb | rasher: Will your themes site have a choice of license, or are you intending to force the CC-BY-SA 3.0 on all uploads? (I would be in favour of the latter, for simplicity). |
| 16:59:13 | rasher | The latter |
| 17:00 |
| 17:01:04 | rasher | Someone like serendipity_ could of course say in the comment text that it's also available under a more liberal license |
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| 17:01:33 | serendipity_ | lulz |
| 17:01:49 | serendipity_ | you cant get much more liberal than WTFPL =P |
| 17:02:18 | serendipity_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL#Terms |
| 17:02:39 | * | rasher knew it already |
| 17:03:36 | serendipity_ | but okay, i'll dual under wtfpl and a cc ok-corporate no-give-credit derrivativs-under-any-liscence whatvever |
| 17:05:13 | Llorean | kugel: How do you "Insert" while in the menu? (Not Filetree, MENU) |
| 17:06:19 | Llorean | serendipity_: The idea is a specific CC, not "whichever CC license you like" |
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| 17:06:55 | serendipity_ | ok |
| 17:07:08 | Llorean | kugel: Have to go. Will check logs later. But think. The button still needs a "job" within the menu tree where 'insert' doesn't do any good (you can't insert "Sound Settings" into a PL) and possibly in the playlist viewer itself. |
| 17:08:09 | | Quit orsonj (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:08:12 | rasher | It's simply to make people have to think less when re-using stuff from other themes. If all themes use the same license, things get far simpler. (and yeah, WTFPL on its own would do it in theory, but to save people the bother of having to look it up) |
| 17:08:14 | kugel | Llorean: well, there's nothing to insert, so it has no action yet |
| 17:08:46 | serendipity_ | do they even have a no-attrib yes-commercial yes-derrivative not-share-alike? |
| 17:09:13 | kugel | playlist_viewer could be done. But I fear that user don't get the difference between menus and database/filetree, which would then lead to unexpected behavior |
| 17:09:23 | rasher | serendipity_: There's the very recently released CC0, but the "standard set" doesn't have no-attrib I believe |
| 17:09:35 | serendipity_ | philosophically....yes-commercial, because as a pirate, i benefit from corporate works all the time || and no-credit because i hate writing documentation, and want to spare others from it (and foss purists usually give credit anyways) || and derrivatives-under-any because ... meh |
| 17:09:52 | serendipity_ | where do i get cc0? |
| 17:10:39 | rasher | serendipity_: It doesn't really matter though, as long as you have it available as WTFPL also, surely? |
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| 17:11:08 | serendipity_ | whoop, found it |
| 17:11:10 | serendipity_ | http://creativecommons.org/license/zero/ |
| 17:11:19 | rasher | This is getting off-topic though |
| 17:11:40 | serendipity_ | yeah |
| 17:11:43 | serendipity_ | soz |
| 17:11:52 | serendipity_ | back to work for me |
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| 17:43:18 | pixelma | kugel: if I'm reading the FS task right (just skimming though), the database format has changed now and would need a reinitialise? |
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| 17:48:36 | kugel | pixelma: yes |
| 17:49:01 | kugel | it's reinitialise automatically, due to the version number |
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| 17:50:46 | pixelma | that should have been mentioned in the commit message then. Won't people lose their runtime data, rating etc. if they don't export them before and then import (I just think I read it somewher, don't use it so am not sure) |
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| 17:52:55 | kugel | hm, yea, I think so. I haven't thought of that, I don't gather runtime data |
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| 17:53:38 | pixelma | I also think that commit messages should be quite explicit in general |
| 17:54:33 | linuxstb | pixelma: Absolutely... They should be self-contained and say _why_ something is done, not just what (the code itself normally says what). |
| 17:54:37 | | Quit serendipity__ () |
| 17:55:56 | linuxstb | kugel: It's not helpful to just put the FS number in the log message - it should really describe what the patch actually does, and then give the FS number for further information. |
| 17:56:41 | kugel | ok, I'll be more verbose again next time, sorry :( |
| 17:58:00 | rasher | Frankly, I don't like "oops" and "fix red" commit messages either |
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| 17:59:56 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:00 | _Wonko | hi, i was wondering, how can you get rockbox to power off, and not tax the battery when i'm not listening |
| 18:00:17 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
| 18:00:28 | _Wonko | *power down is the correct expression i guess |
| 18:00:51 | scorche | that depends on the device you are using, however this and many more such questions are answered in the fine manual... |
| 18:01:29 | rasher | _Wonko: Look for "Idle Poweroff" |
| 18:01:34 | rasher | Which does exactly what you'd expect. |
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| 18:03:44 | _Wonko | thank you! yes, that seems to be exactly the thing i'm looking for |
| 18:04:18 | _Wonko | does rockbox auto power down on other devices? |
| 18:04:51 | gevaerts | Can we start GSoCApplicationTemplate2009 as a copy of GSoCApplicationTemplate2008, or do we expect too big differences? |
| 18:05:04 | scorche | gevaerts: that should be fine |
| 18:05:10 | rasher | _Wonko: I don't understand that question |
| 18:06:42 | pixelma | _Wonko: "Idle poweroff" exists for all targets in Rockbox |
| 18:07:21 | _Wonko | assuming the intended behaviour is shutting down the player when you pause the playback for an extended period of time... does rockbox do that on other players than my first gen ipod? |
| 18:07:47 | evilnick | _Wonko: Yes |
| 18:08:24 | evilnick | Pause or music stopped and no button presses, I believe |
| 18:09:20 | _Wonko | yes, stopped music i mean |
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| 18:10:49 | * | amiconn dislikes the whole idea of configurable buttons |
| 18:10:55 | _Wonko | i will try the "workaround" i found when searching for idle poweroff.. hope it works, cause at the moment, my battery is gone within perhaps a day at the most |
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| 18:27:17 | linuxstb | _Wonko: What workaround have you found? AFAIK, Rockbox doesn't have any form of poweroff on the 1st/2nd gen ipods (assuming you're talking about the original 1st gen) |
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| 18:30:36 | gevaerts | scorche: do you think the USB bits on SummerOfCode2009 need more details? |
| 18:31:28 | scorche | gevaerts: sure...anything on the page could use some expanding, likely...i was planning on expanding the USB bits if it came to it, but if you want to... ;) |
| 18:32:46 | gevaerts | scorche: I can work on the USB bits, but I'm not really sure what to add |
| 18:33:37 | | Quit jordoex (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:35:02 | scorche | i was thinking about perhaps separating out the individual modes, say what they do/why it would be handy to have...perhaps even point in a direction of an existing implementation that could be looked at |
| 18:35:23 | gevaerts | ah ok. |
| 18:35:33 | _Wonko | linuxstb, i guess i'm talking about that one... the link is this: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/8372 |
| 18:35:44 | _Wonko | the comment by Jens Arnold |
| 18:35:55 | | Quit SirFunk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:36:05 | _Wonko | i have yet to try it out, as i'm currently loading the batteries ;) |
| 18:36:32 | _Wonko | oh fuck, i need to be going |
| 18:36:40 | _Wonko | well, cya! |
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| 18:39:53 | pixelma | ahh... 1st or 2nd gen Ipod. I forgot :\ |
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| 18:41:52 | linuxstb | pixelma: You were technically correct though, the "idle poweroff" option does exist for those ipods, it just doesn't work... |
| 18:42:32 | pixelma | well, it works... but will get you into a reboot cycle |
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| 18:43:30 | rasher | Maybe it should be disabled? |
| 18:43:55 | rasher | People might rely on it, not knowing that it's going to reboot |
| 18:45:49 | | Part pondlife |
| 18:46:32 | pixelma | that won't help them completely though, they still need to be aware having to reboot into the OF |
| 18:48:23 | rasher | Yes, but that's better than the current situation in my opinion. Having an Idle Poweroff that doesn't actually work is bad. |
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| 18:56:00 | midgey | gevaerts: do you have an mtp h10? |
| 18:56:02 | Slasheri | fortunately the db shouldn't reinitialize automatically when the version changes so users can revert to a previous version and do export using that version |
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| 18:59:03 | rasher | Slasheri: Any hope for FS #7287 - Sort tags? |
| 19:00 |
| 19:03:04 | Slasheri | rasher: technically that patch probably should be ok, but it's hard for me to say how important feature that would be (i wouldn't need that). And probably it would significantly increase the db size |
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| 19:04:45 | rasher | Well, two things: I don't think we *ever* want to display the sort tags. And how much larger are we talking? And is it significant, in the grand scale? |
| 19:07:58 | Slasheri | rasher: looking from the patch, it would at least add 16 bytes for each song and then the actual data for the sort tags (not sure if that data may get to the ram for faster searches) |
| 19:08:07 | pixelma | I still don't understand why it shouldn't display sort tags, I mean in a record store it will be "Presley, Elvis" too |
| 19:08:14 | pixelma | but maybe I'm special |
| 19:08:41 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:09:33 | rasher | Well, the whole point of sort tags is to sort differently than the correct name |
| 19:10:29 | pixelma | yes, I could still imagine reading "Presley, Elvis" in the browser and "Elvis Presley" in the WPS if I had a song by him |
| 19:11:37 | pixelma | in my eyes it would read weird to read something starting with "E" among other words starting with "P" |
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| 19:13:31 | Llorean | rasher: As long as the size increase is "per song" and possibly "only for songs where the tags are present" the amount shouldn't matter since it's user choice whether to increase their own DB size. |
| 19:13:54 | rasher | Llorean: I think it'd be for all songs. |
| 19:14:18 | Llorean | Well, as I said "possibly" for that one. |
| 19:14:52 | rasher | Huh, did I not just *move* tools/release/w32sims.pl? |
| 19:15:00 | * | Llorean thinks that if the database is set to filter by "artist" it should use sort_artist when present and artist when not, but that maybe there should be an option to explicitly sort by sort_artist that simply shows the contents in that tag and sorts by it, for people like pixelma |
| 19:15:12 | Llorean | Since sorting by a tag without any defaulting doesn't require any particularly fancy new logic anyway |
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| 19:16:37 | saratoga | was there any discussion about possibly using some of our money to send funman a Clip? |
| 19:17:18 | rasher | Not much discussion iirc. I think I said it's quite likely it'd be possible |
| 19:17:57 | saratoga | I sent him my fuze, but its 1) not a clip, and 2) probably going to float around the US postal service for quite a while |
| 19:21:04 | Llorean | Well, the fuze probably allows him to make more progress than a Clip does anyway. Fix the >2gb thing, at least. |
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| 19:21:50 | gevaerts | midgey: I had, but I decided that the mtpness of it was just annoying, so now I have an msc h10 |
| 19:22:31 | midgey | ah, well i quickly whipped up a patch for FS #9966 |
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| 19:25:09 | XavierGr | rasher: regarding themes licensing, I got in contact with Ioannis Koutoulakis (iCatcher & UniCatcher) and he told me that he doesn't mind any relicensing that will happen on his themes. Specifically he told me "What fits better for Rockbox." |
| 19:25:42 | XavierGr | rasher: also he said there was once a similar discussion about it here between him (genre9mp3) and linuxstb. |
| 19:25:59 | rasher | Great |
| 19:26:56 | saratoga | also, we have only two interested mentors listed on teh GSOC page |
| 19:27:09 | saratoga | i'm sure we have more interested people then that |
| 19:27:44 | saratoga | perhaps a front page news item about it would be a good idea, as we did on this day, last year |
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| 19:34:01 | * | domonoky adds himself to the page.. |
| 19:34:53 | amiconn | Unhelpful: The downscaler is only used in PF during cache creation, correct? |
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| 19:51:40 | gevaerts | scorche: I've fleshed out the USB device side things a bit. It's not really good yet, but there's a lot more information now. I haven't done the host side yet. Feel free to improve on sight :) |
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| 20:09:47 | FlynDice | Bertrik:I got some strange results with your ams sansa rtc patch |
| 20:10:25 | bertrik | yeah, the day of week is incorrect |
| 20:10:57 | FlynDice | setting the date in rockbox sets it 2 days earlier also |
| 20:11:31 | bertrik | you mean, the OF shows 2 days earlier than RB? |
| 20:12:19 | FlynDice | no, when I set March 6 in the setting page and save, it saves March 4 |
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| 20:12:47 | FlynDice | march 8 goes to March 6 etc |
| 20:12:57 | bertrik | hmm, weird, I'm thinking of another, simpler, way of fixing it |
| 20:13:15 | bertrik | thanks for letting me know |
| 20:13:38 | FlynDice | sure I left a couple of comments on FS |
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| 21:20:01 | bertrik | oh nice, something was changed from short to int32_t and binsize went down ... |
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| 21:27:42 | n1s | bertrik: not really surprising, dealing with regular ints is usually the simplest |
| 21:29:08 | n1s | ah, the lack of frequent yielding when benching the midi plugin seems to have been the cause for it to crash |
| 21:29:29 | n1s | a little strange that it just turned the sansa off though |
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| 21:30:16 | n1s | an overeager watchdog timer thingy somewhere perhaps? |
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| 21:33:18 | pixelma | I'm not sure if it's still the case but I remember that playing midi did not reset the idle power off timer |
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| 21:36:15 | pixelma | seems it's fixed though |
| 21:36:21 | n1s | pixelma: this was not that at least, it happened much too quickly and suddenly (no splash or anything) and also happened while charging from usb |
| 21:37:13 | n1s | anyway, this is no problem for the svn version just when i disabled the actual pcm_play_data call |
| 21:40:26 | shotofadds | gevaerts: ping |
| 21:40:41 | * | gevaerts wakes up |
| 21:40:45 | pixelma | ugh, seems this backlight fade out looks most flickery (taking longer) when the CPU is busy, very noticable while playing midi on my c200 (I noticed earlier that it looks different now and then but wasn't sure under which circumstances) |
| 21:41:03 | gevaerts | shotofadds: pong |
| 21:41:16 | shotofadds | there's a patch on flyspray to enable USB serial for the d2 (fs#9917) which I don't entriely understand. not least because USB serial works without the majority of that patch.. I was wondering if you had any thoughts about it? |
| 21:41:33 | n1s | pixelma: possibly that is at least partially caused by the too infrequent yielding, /me will fix |
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| 21:43:16 | shotofadds | gevaerts: all I did was add USB_NUM_ENDPOINTS, define usb_attach(), and define USB_SERIAL |
| 21:43:16 | shotofadds | in usb_core.h. I don't really understand what the other changes are trying to achieve. |
| 21:44:12 | * | shotofadds thinks this is possibly better posted to the fs task... |
| 21:46:37 | gevaerts | shotofadds: I don't really know either. |
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| 21:46:50 | shotofadds | gevaerts: ah, I see it. the logf text often seems to have a repeated or missing character at the end of each line. those read/write changes are presumably aimed at fixing that. i'll test it out. |
| 21:47:28 | * | gevaerts hasn't really looked at the datasheet for this controller, so it's all a bit magical |
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| 21:54:50 | gevaerts | shotofadds: some bits of it seem to make no sense at all to me |
| 21:56:06 | gevaerts | Like e.g. why does it replace that for loop in usb_drv_write_packet() by a while loop that does exactly the same except it's more verbose? |
| 21:56:30 | gevaerts | or am I missing something? |
| 21:57:29 | gevaerts | Similar things happen in handle_ep_in() |
| 21:57:35 | shotofadds | gevaerts: I have no idea. it also makes the player crash on USB insert :/ |
| 21:58:52 | gevaerts | It looks to me like he changed things more or less at random until he got it working, and then posted a patch |
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| 22:02:27 | gevaerts | I think you just need USB_NUM_ENDPOINTS and usb_attach(). The rest of that patch isn't very useful IMHO |
| 22:03:28 | gevaerts | except that the #define for USB_NUM_ENDPOINTS should go to tcc*.h, not config-cowond2.h |
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| 22:03:57 | shotofadds | gevaerts: I concur. I think the patch is trying to address buggy handling of buffer lengths that are indivisble by 2, but it seems to be doing it in a slightly strange way. I'll look into it some more tomorrow. |
| 22:04:28 | shotofadds | and yes, I thought it was strange adding that to config-*.h - but several other targets seem to do this |
| 22:05:17 | gevaerts | All of those are mcuelenaere's :) |
| 22:05:57 | shotofadds | hehe, us New Ports amateurs ;-) |
| 22:06:49 | gevaerts | Anyway the driver has more bits that need fixing |
| 22:07:23 | shotofadds | I'm sure it has, I haven't really looked into USB on this at all |
| 22:07:28 | shotofadds | Anything in particular? |
| 22:07:44 | gevaerts | mostly the nice TODO issues |
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| 22:09:14 | gevaerts | the driver spends too much time busy-waiting. It needs to use interrupts instead |
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| 22:10:06 | shotofadds | sure, but I'd hope those improvements could wait until the functionaility actually works.. |
| 22:11:21 | * | bertrik starts working on charging for e200v2 |
| 22:12:05 | gevaerts | of course. It's just that I have this tendency to think that we have a driver for tcc usb, while in reality we have a partially working good enough for debugging one |
| 22:12:07 | * | shotofadds wonders if vitja has any intention of working on this in future |
| 22:13:07 | shotofadds | gevaerts: indeed. although I'd say it's "just about passable" rather than good enough.. |
| 22:13:13 | shotofadds | UMS is rather unreliable |
| 22:14:06 | gevaerts | Maybe I should try to fix it before tackling things like USB host... |
| 22:15:48 | shotofadds | gevaerts: I think that depends how useful it would be. Eg. there's not much need for fully working USB on the D2 right now, altough it is very helpful for debugging. If this controller is used on other targets, maybe it becomes more important |
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| 22:16:33 | * | shotofadds is away for a while |
| 22:18:31 | gevaerts | shotofadds: I think it's useful for various reasons. We want this driver for the meizus as well, I don't like leaving it in this state, and I've never really worked a FIFO-based driver before. Getting some experience with it will help with other drivers later on (like the AMS) |
| 22:18:45 | gevaerts | but yes, that's all for targets in progress |
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| 23:35:39 | domonoky | bluebrother: rbutil 1.1 ready for release ? |
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| 23:37:51 | bluebrother | domonoky: yes, I already started building binaries |
| 23:38:04 | bluebrother | at least I don't know of anything that could stop the show :) |
| 23:38:11 | * | domonoky begins checkout on jdgordons mac :-) |
| 23:40:47 | bluebrother | hmm. I should update my build machine to Qt 4.5 for at least the windows binary. Might include accessibility fixes. |
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| 23:46:14 | NHeal | grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
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| 23:55:31 | bluebrother | Bagder: rbutil 1.1 binaries for w32 and linux available here: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/ . Please copy to download server. |
| 23:56:36 | amiconn | rasher: Is there a reason why you didn't remove w32sim.pl? |
| 23:57:57 | rasher | amiconn: I wasn't sure I hadn't - I thought svn move would... move, and wanted to figure out what happened, then forgot |
| 23:58:27 | amiconn | svn move moves, but you need to explicitly commit the deleted (source) file |
| 23:58:43 | amiconn | A folder commit doesn't pick up deleted files |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).