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#rockbox log for 2009-03-09

00:00:54gevaertsBdN3504: it only does that on devices with software controlled USB
00:01:25BdN3504so that's just the portal player DAPs?
00:01:52gevaertsfor the currently supported players, yes
00:01:59BdN3504hanks for the info
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00:06:28 Nick Tip is now known as Guest584 (n=cdbc750e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:07:02 Join gromit` [0] (
00:07:51Guest584Is this where I can ask a question about installing rockbox?
00:08:42Guest584No drive letter is assigned to my sansa player on the hard drive tree
00:10:07pixelmadid you put it in MSC mode (in the original firmware)? And what player is it exactly?
00:10:35Guest584Yes, E250
00:11:27 Part pyro_maniac
00:11:42pixelmawhat version is your Sansa firmware?
00:11:53Martyngevaerts : I'm using the official build (I had to wait for the sansa build to finish today)
00:12:15Martyngevaerts: : I am completely replacing the .rockbox directory, and then rebooting the sansa
00:12:24Guest584Version 0102.18A
00:13:08BagderMartyn: he took off to sleep a while ago...
00:13:17Martynoh, poot
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00:17:10pixelmaGuest584: and your Sansa is displaying a "connected" screen - also, what do you mean with "hard drive tree" (in your computer's file manager or in the Rockbox Utility)? Please give as many details as you can, otherwise it's hard or next to impossible to help... and I'm slowly out of ideas
00:19:51Guest584Yes, Sansa is displaying "connected" screen. By hard drive tree I mean computer's file manager, i.e. the player is not assigned a drive letter.
00:20:16Guest584so that I can indicate a mountpoint
00:21:35*amiconn wonders whether an ipod video owner already tried post-r20242
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00:23:00linuxstbGuest584: Then it sounds like you are not in MSC mode. Double-check that setting in the original firmware.
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00:25:25linuxstbMartyn: Your problem is that Rockbox USB mode doesn't work with either OS X or Windows on your Sansa, accessing either the internal flash or a card?
00:26:12MartynAnd I've verified the same problem in Linux just now
00:26:25linuxstbAnd you have no problems with the original firmware's MSC mode?
00:26:31MartynAttempting to copy files in, works for a few files, then the Sansa disconnects
00:26:44MartynIf I use the original firmware, everything works
00:26:50linuxstbIs this all on the same computer?
00:26:57MartynNo, three different machines
00:27:16MartynMacbook Pro 15", Lenovo S10 (windows XP), and a Dell XPS desktop (linux/Ubuntu 8.10)
00:27:21 Quit krazykit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:27:29linuxstbAnd which Sansa?
00:29:14Martyne250R, also tried it on an e280R
00:29:23linuxstbDo you have another cable you can try? (I'm not saying this isn't a Rockbox bug, just trying to isolate why only you appear to have this trouble)
00:29:37Martynalthough I have had issues with the e280 of late (bad battery) so I don't trust it
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00:29:55MartynTwo cables, both show the issue
00:30:08linuxstbThen you're simply cursed...
00:30:40*linuxstb is out of obvious questions, so will leave it to gevaerts to debug on another day
00:31:00MartynI'm still trying to collect enough debug data to file the bug
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00:33:05Guest584Yes, you were right, I'm now in MSC mode and the Sansa is assigned the G drive however, "no sansa detected"
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00:35:12linuxstbGuest584: Are you logged in as a user with Administrator rights? That's needed for the initial bootloader installation
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00:36:47Guest584I don't know for sure although I am the only user and have never encountered a problem
00:36:49advcomp2019Martyn, i am confused like your issue too because i have windows vista, windows xp, and linux here, and i have not got any issues with usb on my sansa e280R
00:37:24 Part cjambe
00:39:40linuxstbGuest584: What does "About -> System Info" say in Rockbox Utility?
00:40:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:43:09Martynadvcomp2019 : As I mentioned earlier .. you can't diagnose a bug with a working case :)
00:43:24Martynadvcomp2019 : What your sansa does or does not do is only tangentally relevant.
00:44:06MartynOnce I have enough data collected, and file the bug, we can start debugging the issue.
00:44:45 Quit ender` (" The problem with political jokes is they get elected. -- Henry Cate, VII")
00:44:57advcomp2019it mounts, then lets me transfer like 870MB data
00:45:04Guest584wndows version 5.1, build 2600 (service pack 2600) - username: owner, permission: admin, for attached UBS devices Sansa E250
00:45:19Martynadvcomp2019 : I'm sure it does. It probably also plays perfectly.
00:45:49advcomp2019yea it plays the files fine
00:45:50Martynadvcomp2019 : If I mount the SD cards I have separately using the SD card readers, mine plays and works for the most part.
00:46:04MartynIt's just when engaging the USB I/O that it goes offline
00:46:27linuxstbGuest584: I can't really help much more with Rockbox Utility. However, you can install the bootloader by downloading and running sansapatcher -
00:46:46MartynIt's entirely possible that a specific series of circumstances are needed to get this to happen ( sansa rev version, a batch of chips they used, who knows... )
00:47:09*linuxstb still thinks Martyn is cursed
00:47:26advcomp2019Martyn, have you checked the sansa for errors
00:49:08 Quit Guest584 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:51:39Martynadvcomp2019: : I'm open to suggestions.
00:52:05Martynadvcomp2019 : I've got both the 250R and 280R, what kind of errors are you thinking of checking?
00:52:12Martynthe filesystem is clean
00:52:43advcomp2019o ok.. i was talking about the file system
00:58:11rasherMartyn: checked with windows chkdisk?
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01:02:32Unhelpfulpixelma: patch is updated, it works nicely on my two targets, and ondio sim. L/R are cancel/select in the track list, along with anything else defined as cancel/select in STD. short press of mode/menu is select in album view, long press is menu. power button anywhere will exit PF
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01:12:42Martynrasher : Checked with linux fsck.vfat
01:12:54Martynand scandisk
01:13:11rasherAh, sometimes it catches more than fsck.vfat does.
01:19:28rasherBagder: the menu on is lacking icons
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01:31:38evilnickUnhelpful: Just saw your patch #9992, but I couldn't understand the description. Does that allow one to choose tracks from the PF tracklisting to insert to the currently playing playlist
01:33:01Unhelpfulevilnick: it reworks the input handling in PF to remove the use of PLA, replacing it with calls to core action code, and custom keymaps. the goal is to fix the problems that some targets had due to PLA context combining, not to add playback control... yet. :)
01:33:29pixelmaUnhelpful: sounds good, will test tomorrow (thouhgh)
01:34:52Unhelpfulpixelma: thanks... it should hopefully be improved on c200 as well, but i've not actually looked over the keymap for that target yet.
01:42:08pixelmaok, if I can help out with a suggestion I'll try
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01:44:13Unhelpfulm3 has what looks like a two-way jog knob on the device... i kind of wonder if we should use that for scroll in both album list and track list (in addition to whatever remote buttons are used)
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03:18:19fosterQuestion: I want to use flac files on my new ipod 120g. Is there any way I could do this? thanks in advance
03:18:45fosterand sorry if this question has been asked many times...I am new here
03:19:01scorcherockbox doesnt work on those devices
03:19:09kadobanfoster: rockbox doesn't support 120GB ipods
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03:20:06fosterthx....any info as to when this 120g ipods will be supported by rockbox?
03:20:22scorchenot any time one is currently working on it, so...
03:20:28kadobanfoster: it would require a breakthrough, and rockbox doesn't plan ports. they are done by volunteers
03:20:56fosterwhat is so different between the new ipods and the old ones that support rockbox
03:21:25kadobanfoster: the difference is that apple decided to lock them down harder, and nobody has figured out how to break through the lockdowns yet
03:21:41rasherfoster: Plus all the hardware is completely new.
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03:21:55fosteri see now
03:22:56fosteri use media monkey and foobar...but neither of them support transparent conversion from flac to aif...any ideas how i could do this with either of the them? thx
03:23:20fosteraiff is my next alternative but i do not want to use itunes
03:23:21Martyn_not only new ... also expensive. The iPod classic is a beast.
03:23:50fosteryes it is
03:23:54evilnickThe gigabeat S is more of a beast ;)
03:24:15Martyn_the gigabeat is also fun to hack on in a way that the iPoid classic iisn't
03:25:07Martyn_Somewhere between the iPod 5G and the Classic, Apple turned into sadists.
03:25:39fosterwell, i am stuck with a new ipod - a nice little present so I want to make the best use out of it...i guess my next best is to use mediamonkey to sync with it...
03:26:04fostermp3 320 would be my next best....i guess
03:26:25Martyn_(and the ipod touch 2nd generation was designed by the second cousin twice removed of the Devil himself)
03:27:00scorchewe are getting off-topic here folks...
03:27:17fosteryou are right scorche...thx for the help anyway
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03:43:33Martyn_Hmmm .. calorie counters all of the net seem to vary widely as to the caloric value of lobster meat. Some cite as little as 80 kcal, some as high as 150 kcal for a 3.5oz serving
03:43:51Martyn_However, I can't seem to find any reference that drops below that .. -frowns-
03:44:03Martyn_Okay, so it's a better food than our host was making it out to be.
03:44:50kadobanthis is rockbox related? :P
03:45:00Martyn_sorry, wrong channel
03:45:08Martyn_I got disconnected then reconnected
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04:00:51PatWilbornNew to IRC can this be seen?
04:01:06cool_walking_yes, we can see you PatWilborn
04:01:22agaffneyPatWilborn: nope
04:02:41PatWilbornThanks, I just joined and would like to post some skins for the Sansa e200. Need permision.
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04:05:45cool_walking_PatWilborn: done
04:07:03PatWilbornThank you.
04:07:25cool_walking_no problem
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08:30:10*Buschel wonders if it is possible to switch to 24MHz clock for PP-CPUs after r20242 :)
08:37:17Buschelif amiconn's change speeds up text rendering on ARM by a factor of 1,3-1,5 and we reduce speed by a factor of 0,8 (30->24 MHz), there is still a total gain of up to 1,2...
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08:40:38amiconnDid you already try it on your Video?
08:41:03*amiconn wonders whether it is worth a MajorChanges entry
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08:43:27amiconnBtw, the varying percentage refers to the various drawmodes
08:45:00Buschelamiconn: I didn't compare svn-builds with and w/o r20242. I will find some time today. For now I just compiled it into my locally changed build (which contains my gui boost solution) −− I could not see any sideeffects yet.
08:45:56Buscheltalking of MajorChanges... I should add the LCD sleep for iPod Video as major improvement in runtime
08:46:59Buschelgotta go to work now, see you
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10:06:57pondlifeJdGordon: Please could you look at FS #9994 and let me know if you think that's ok?
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10:11:16*pondlife wonders who's gong to create FS #10000, and whether all systems will be happy with 5 digit numbers :)
10:11:39B4gderthe notorious FS10K problem!
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10:56:11iJosh-JailbrokenHey all
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11:06:23pondlifegevaerts: Silly question - is there a way to "Eject" an H300 under Windows, to take advantage of the recent button change and continue USB charging? Or did that only apply to PP devices?
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11:27:27peturpondlife: H300 has a hardware USB implementation, so no, not possible
11:27:58pondlifeI feared as much
11:28:25pondlifeMaybe we should have an SoC project to port software USB to some hardware USB targets ;)
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11:29:53peturselection of the fact that the USB hardware has control over the disk is something we do, so you could add a button to force disconnect, just like you can already hold a button when connecting to make it not connect
11:30:30*petur rereads that and finds it not clear himself :)
11:35:15linuxstbBut I'm guessing that hwusb devices don't tell Rockbox when the host OS has issued a "safe to disconnect" message.
11:40:03peturnot that I know of
11:41:13pondlifeSo - possible, but likely to be abused and result in support issues...
11:41:57pondlifeI think an option to default to charging only would be more suitable for me anyway
11:46:05peturI think that has been discussed before (and rejected I think)
11:46:29linuxstbI thought it was agreed...
11:46:34pondlifeI thought it got mixed in (or raised from) a general "configurable REC button" patch
11:46:36linuxstbBut MrSomeone hasn't done anything about it.
11:46:53linuxstbI guess the IRC logs will remember what was agreed.
11:47:06pondlifeI can't see a patch, but will knock one up
11:47:31linuxstbpondlife: I can't remember exactly what was agreed though... Something to do with a setting, plus a button IIRC.
11:47:35pondlifeIf anyone else has one, or can say it would be rejected, then please let me know
11:47:47linuxstbpondlife: If I was you, I would grep the logs first.
11:47:59*linuxstb sees if he can find the discussion
11:48:00pondlifeI just want a boolean that inverts the charge/connect choice
11:48:07pondlifei.e. hold to connect option
11:48:24pondlifeIt would be nice to have in SVN, but I'll use it locally anyway
11:48:48linuxstbI think there was concern about users who might have changed that setting, and then get confused about why their DAP doesn't connect when they plug it in. I'm pretty sure a solution for that was proposed though.
11:49:08pondlifeI definitely don't want an Ask option
11:49:32pondlife(Not that someone else couldn't add it if they wanted it.)
11:53:07*linuxstb fails to find the discussion in the irc logs
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11:55:31*pondlife also fails
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11:57:38pondlifeHmm, that test is (annoyingly) in firmware.
11:57:51pondlifeI'd think that UI code should be in apps.
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11:58:56peturwhat about
11:59:13peturlooks like we talked about it on devcon
11:59:28pondlife"well on devcon we decided that the key would be configurable, not just recording" :)
12:00:08peturthe link is talk about the button, not a setting, I admit
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12:02:15pondlifeThe code is a bit odd - anyone else fancy looking at usb_power_button() in firmware/usb.c ?
12:02:55pondlifeLooks like it's already inverted for the H10s
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12:46:13amiconnpetur, linuxstb: Some hw usb targets *do* tell that (the respective bridge status pin has to be connected to a gpio pin). I know that the iaudios do (but we don't use that information yet)
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13:52:48B4gder"We will be accepting applications from mentoring organizations beginning at 19:00 UTC on March 9, 2009."
13:53:05B4gder(gsoc 2009)
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14:00:46*scorche thinks that we can probably improve somehow
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14:43:48LambdaCalculus37Can someone fill me in on this... the GoGear HDD16x0 port in SVN should also work on the GoGear HDD63x0, correct?
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14:48:33n1sdo we (did we) freeze today? and if so maybe a mail to the dev ml or something would be in order?
14:49:45LambdaCalculus37I haven't heard anything about a freeze today.
14:50:03*LambdaCalculus37 looks to B4gder... freeze today?
14:50:11*B4gder nods
14:50:45LambdaCalculus37Who wants to do the honors and send the message to the ML?
14:52:00*B4gder raises hand. me me me!
14:52:17LambdaCalculus37B4gder: Go for it. :)
14:55:09Topic"Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | feature-freeze!" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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14:56:05*B4gder now waits for amiconn to mention he thinks we release too often ;-)
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17:12:34kosshi all
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17:13:20evilnick_hey koss, do you have a question? If so, then ask away
17:16:20kosswill RockBox participate in this year in GSoC?
17:18:01evilnick_Judging by the frontpage news, it looks like they're applying to.
17:18:22LambdaCalculus37koss: Are you looking to get in on GSoC?
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17:20:02kossi want to colloborate
17:20:27kossi am programmer of embedded software
17:20:27LambdaCalculus37koss: Is there anything in particular you're interested in working on?
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17:22:08kossi have already developed some embedded programm for AVR and SH2A, and i want to ask what kind of processor you use
17:22:18kossfor firmware
17:23:20LambdaCalculus37koss: All Rockbox targets have different CPUs and SoC's. The old Archos Jukeboxes, for example, use SH1. The iriver H100, H300, and iAudio series use Coldfire, and most of the remaining targets are ARM variations.
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17:26:00kossbut how you manage to write app for such various platforms, you use C?
17:26:53LambdaCalculus37The majority of the code is in C, with some platform-specific assembler here and there.
17:27:04LambdaCalculus37You can freely download the source code and check it out.
17:27:06n1swe use C, yes. Not sure I understand the other question
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17:27:27kossin addition i was code the wireless sustem on coldfire processors (ZigBee)
17:28:27dmbis there a way to determine if the e200 you are buying is a v1 or v2?
17:28:58LambdaCalculus37dmb: You have to look at the firmware. 01.XX.XX is a v1, and 03.XX.XX is a v2.
17:29:13dmbLambdaCalculus37, doesn't help when i'm trying to buy one :(
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17:30:16kossis there the origin firmware protection in the mp3 players?
17:30:37n1skoss: there are *many* different coldfire processors, the ones we support don't have any wireless capabilities
17:30:46kosshow did you download you soft on the mp3 player
17:30:50dmbLambdaCalculus37, would you happen to know if|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 is v2?
17:31:38n1skoss: most original firmwares are scrambled in some way or even encrypted
17:32:32kossn1s i understand, it is for example. it mean i know some of main register of this processor
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17:34:11kossdo your firmware have the GUI (for little mp3 plaers screen)?
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17:34:53LambdaCalculus37dmb: Ask the seller to check for you.
17:35:01LambdaCalculus37I left my crystal ball at home.
17:36:08mooskoss: I'd say buy one supported rockbox traget, and see youself. And download sources too...
17:37:28moosand we have a full informations Wiki with listed all the used CPUs and stuff
17:38:20dmbbetween the sansa and the iriver h10, which one would you guys get?
17:38:46kossOk I shall not distract any more you
17:39:02LambdaCalculus37dmb: Take whatever appeals to you the most.
17:39:05gibbon_im sorry... i was not going to say anything...
17:40:39mooskoss: You are welcome if you want to contribute to rockbox, but sure that reading our documentation can help you to know mmore about the project
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17:40:52mooshehe, too slow :)
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18:00:47Hilikushey guys, is album art resize part of the main branch already?
18:00:58evilnick_Hilikus: Yes
18:01:09Hilikusthanks evilnick
18:01:16Hilikusdoes it still only support bmp?
18:01:26evilnick_Hilikus: Yes
18:01:30Hilikusgot it
18:01:34Hilikusthanks a lot evilnick
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18:10:39Hilikushey i cant compile the newest svn version, any idea whats wrong?
18:10:46Hilikusmake: *** No rule to make target `/home/hilikus/rockbox/code/apps/plugins/lib/bmp.h', needed by `/home/hilikus/rockbox/build/apps/buffering.o'. Stop.
18:11:07n1sHilikus: did you try make clean?
18:11:16Hilikusi am right now actually
18:11:43Hilikusi thought make recong would implicitly do a make clean
18:12:15Hilikusok, i got a different one
18:12:25Hilikus/home/hilikus/rockbox/code/apps/menus/main_menu.c:455: error: `LANG_CREDITS' undeclared here (not in a function)
18:12:44n1shave you modified the code at all?
18:13:01Hilikusyes, i installed a couple of patches
18:13:13Hilikusi cant even remember which, i did it like a year ago
18:13:19gevaertsHilikus: are there files remaining after make clean (other than configure.h and Makefile)?
18:13:29n1sthen i would clean out the source tree and create a new build dir
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18:13:55Hilikusgevaerts yes
18:14:04Hilikusautoconf.h lang.c lang.h lang.o Makefile max_language_size.h
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18:14:40gevaertsHilikus: ok. remove all except autoconf.h and Makefile (or just remove all of them and rerun configure)
18:17:33Hilikusthat did the trick but i think remains of the bmp_resize plugin made it crash somewhere else
18:17:37Hilikusthanks gevaerts
18:17:48Hilikusi'll just start from scratch
18:18:08Hilikuscan i jsut rm the code directory and svn update?
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18:24:31LambdaCalculus37Hilikus: If you remove the directory, you'll have to checkout again.
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18:31:41CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
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18:37:44Hilikusshould i remove .rockbox before unzipping a newer version?
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18:38:01evilnick_Hilikus: You can just overwrite it
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18:40:40Alpha-BaitI have the latest dev build on my sansa e200 - when the device is plugged in USB mode, is it charging the device? (I assume anytime the sansa is plugged in it charges by default)
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19:30:52gevaertsAlpha-Bait: it should be, yes
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19:35:22jamiem'car mode' on my 4G iPod works perfectly (i.e. pause when removed from dock, play automatically when replaced) but when using my iTrip it goes back to Main Menu on disconnect and just boots to default front screen element on reconnection
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19:40:43LloreanThe iTrip may issue its own commands to the device, being an accessory.
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19:44:27LloreanDoes the iTrip stop and resume in the original firmware?
19:44:39jamiemdidn't check that
19:44:50jamiemI'm check next time
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20:07:32bubiHi, anyone here, who can help me reengineer the ipod clickwheel from mini 1g? maybe someone knows where i can find specific hardwaredocs for the mini1g... It seems my hardware which i use for meassurment is broken, but i don't have a replacement for testing, so...
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20:09:56LambdaCalculus37bubi: What is it that you need? Do you have a broken mini clickwheel? Or is there something else you need?
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20:12:24bubiI'm trying to replace the complete logic board, with an selfmade board using a cortex-m3 processor as a base for my "personal" rockbox player. I have chosen the mini 1g as a base because i have everything, the housing,clickwheel and screen.Today i started to "test" the clickwheel and find out the pining of the connector, but it seems broken. So I'm looking for some docs for reference (what should it be)
20:14:16bubiMy problem is, i don't know is it realy broken or it just works different then i thougt
20:16:48*LambdaCalculus37 wonders if we should start rolling versions of beastpatcher for testing
20:17:44evilnick__Well, it is now "the freeze" and the beast is scheduled to be in the list of supported players for the upcoming release...
20:18:14*LambdaCalculus37 summons a dev with a Mac
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20:32:35BigBambievilnick__: Is it? I think it is slightly too late now
20:33:28evilnick__BigBambi: According to it is.
20:33:35LloreanWhether or not Beast will be in the release is almost entirely dependent upon whether the installer is up for it
20:34:09BigBambievilnick: That isn't set in stone
20:34:25*evilnick__ just wants to go to one page to get the latest build for both his E280 and his beast.
20:34:29BigBambiand as Llorean says will only happen if the requisite items get done
20:35:07evilnick__I do understand. Perhaps I should have said "*currently* scheduled to be in the list of supported players" then!
20:36:29BigBambiI'd love it to be in, I just don't think it is a given
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20:37:49LambdaCalculus37I was having problems building Beastpatcher in OS X; I think it's because my Mac is a bit untidy in terms of libraries.
20:38:06*LambdaCalculus37 can probably try with JdGordon's Mac
20:39:22LloreanDid we ever get someone who could try beastpatcher in windows?
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20:39:57evilnick__I could, quite easily too.
20:40:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:40:34evilnick__Providing it'd be just: "Try this version" "OK, that doesn't work, this error message comes up" etc.
20:40:39BigBambiLlorean: i.e. someone to whose OS the beast OF will actually attach?
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20:42:32LloreanBigBambi: exactly.
20:42:49LloreanI tried going through and uninstalling the UMS beast on that theory that attaching UMS first might screw things up
20:42:56LloreanI may just need to find someone with XP
20:43:19BigBambiLlorean: I tried three XP PCs, two of which had never had the beast attached before in any way
20:43:22BigBambiNo luck
20:43:32*evilnick__ volunteers, if that'd help out at all
20:43:33LloreanThat's pretty bizarre
20:43:46LloreanBigBambi: Did you make sure they had the latest WMP?
20:44:00LloreanI also seem to recall needing to install some "MTP Migration Kit" or something from Microsoft way back, but I'm not sure
20:44:18BigBambiLlorean: All three had WMP 10 when I started (which should be OK), I then tried all of them with WMP 11 too
20:44:38*Llorean wonders if OF 1.2 works better.
20:46:28BigBambiI've not tried 1.2 due to the unconfirmed reports of the single boot RB bootloader not working with it
20:46:44BigBambiAnd I'll be buggered if I go back to waiting ages for the dual-boot one to start
20:46:51LloreanI just keep wondering why they'd release an update at so late a date.
20:46:58Buschelamiconn: Comparing a svn build with r20242 to a build w/o r20242 seems to me like it allows smoother scrolling. It does not seem to be faster, but less jerky. Another power user who used builds without gui boosting should comment his experience. I am not used to use non-boosted gui.
20:47:01LloreanAnd "it can't connect at all any more" might be a good reason to (if you can damn well install it)
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20:48:45BigBambiLlorean: Yeah, it's all a bit odd
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20:51:35LambdaCalculus37evilnick__: Sure, try out beastpatcher on your comp.
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20:52:34evilnick__LambdaCalculus37: With Tues/Wed off work then I'll have the opportunity
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20:54:53LambdaCalculus37evilnick__: All righty. Let us know how it works.
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20:55:29evilnick__And is this the latest build of rbutil from the wiki?
20:55:37evilnick__Or would I have to roll my own?
20:56:00BigBambinot rbutil at all
20:56:37*evilnick__ smacks himself in the face.
20:56:47evilnick__Yes, sorry, wasn't concentrating
20:57:09BigBambievilnick__: There is a beastpatcher for windows test build floating around somewhere
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21:04:15UncleOp22Just RockBoxed my Sansa e250. I have read the manual, and I remain very confused about Playlists. That section of the manual does imply "work in progress". In short: I can't figure out how to add songs to a non-dynamic (and new) playlist. Help?
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21:05:14BigBambiUncleOp22: Long select to open the context menu, then playlist, then inert
21:05:16evilnick__UncleOp22: Stop playback (short press on the power button) and then highlight either a file or a directory and then long press Select and choose Insert
21:06:40 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:07:54UncleOp22BigBambi and evilnic__: Ah! Thank you. That didn't come across to me in the manual. Awesome. Related question: how do I now name that playlist so that I can come back to it?
21:08:15evilnick__From the WPS, you
21:08:30BigBambiUncleOp22: Context menu again (long select), then playlist, then save
21:08:42evilnick__^ what he said!
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21:10:05UncleOp22Does the name have to include ".pla" or whatever? Or will RockBox automatically add the proper "type" to the name?
21:10:50evilnick__UncleOp22: For me, it has the name "dynamic.m3u8" there by default
21:10:54BigBambiUncleOp22: m3u8
21:11:01BigBambi(or m3u)
21:11:29BigBambiUncleOp22: m3u is a standard playlist format, m3u8 is the UTF8 version
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21:11:51UncleOp22BigBambi and evilnick__: my goal is to have several playlists, since I'm using the player to rehearse music. (and thanks for the clarification)
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21:12:27BigBambiUncleOp22: You might want to look into the playlist catalogue
21:12:52evilnick__UncleOp22: If you're making a lot of them then you might want to do that via a program on your PC so that typing the name is easier than on target
21:13:56UncleOp22evilnick__ and BigBambi: indeed, that too is a goal. I'm Linux-based; I'm hoping I can get some mileage out of EasyTag, but I'll take other recommendations.
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21:14:39BigBambiUncleOp22: Virtually all programs should make m3u, it is pretty much the standard
21:15:13evilnick__UncleOp22: Anything that can generate m3u (or m3u8) files should work fine. (Another) nice thing about Rockbox is that even if you have the drive letter (E:/) at the start of the entry then it will find the file on target
21:15:21BigBambiUncleOp22: As long as your directory structure is the same on PC and Rockbox, it'd be easier to make them on PC then just copy over
21:15:33 Quit Domonoky1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:16:29UncleOp22In the virtual keyboard (I'm naming a playlist), I'm lost on "Save&exit" - I seem to be able to just "Exit without changes". What's the proper key sequence?
21:16:48BigBambiUncleOp22: That is in the manual
21:17:05BigBambi(I don't know for e300 off the top of my head)
21:17:28BigBambier, e200
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21:18:16UncleOp22BigBambi: The issue is I tried pressing "play", but it just moved the cursor. So I'm guessing my e2x0 keys are what I need to figure out.
21:19:02BigBambiUncleOp22: Or you could look in the manual where it tells you what the buttons are called and which ones you need to do what in the virtual keyboard
21:19:44UncleOp22BigBambi: that's what I'm trying to do; I saw that picture once, and now I'm scrabbling about for it again :-( (Need better glasses, perhaps...)
21:20:02BigBambiUncleOp22: You can search the pdf version
21:20:15UncleOp22BigBambi: Good point. Thank you.
21:22:36UncleOp22BigBambi: Got it. Now, when I "View Catalog", I still get "No Playlists". Do I have to hook up a PC to move the file somewhere else?
21:22:58BigBambiUncleOp22: Normal playlists are independent of the catalogue
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21:23:31BigBambiUncleOp22: Playlists only appear in the catalogue if you specifically save it to there
21:23:39UncleOp22BigBambi: Ah. I remain confused. Oh well; I'll study the manual more closely in hopes of revelation.
21:23:56BigBambiUncleOp22: With normal ones, navigate to where you saved the playlist and open it
21:24:36*amiconn points jhMikeS to __builtin_ffs()
21:25:12mcuelenaeregevaerts: how 'complete' is FS #9545?
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21:28:41gevaertsmcuelenaere: the big remanining issues are the HAVE_MULTIDRIVE + NUM_VOLUMES thing (i.e. allocate a fixed total NUM_VOLUMES, or a max per drive, or ...?), and IIRC I had issues with sansa+ramdisk (i.e. 3 drives)
21:29:23 Part UncleOp22
21:29:32mcuelenaeregevaerts: does only USB storage depends on NUM_VOLUMES or do other files depend on it too?
21:30:24gevaertsmcuelenaere: fat.c, disk.c, dircache.c, ...
21:30:57gevaertsI think volumes and drives should be separated properly as something separate from actual multidriver work
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22:07:17*bluebrother wonders about the current state of beastpatcher
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22:12:40fmlDoesn't the paragraph about USB disconnecting go against the manual style (use "... can be made" instead of "you can ...")?
22:13:20gevaertsmaybe, yes. Feel free to fix it :)
22:13:58pixelmano, following the LatexGuidelines, the first would be correct
22:14:00kugelLear: So, do you have further questions re your mail? I was being shot for my answer
22:14:35BigBambifml: Formal technical writing in English usually uses the passive
22:15:42pixelmafml: where did you find your information about the manual style?
22:15:47gevaertsfml: next time phrase he question more carefully, so people agree with you when they think you're right :)
22:16:30gevaertsBigBambi, pixelma: "you can" is what's currently in there. fml proposes the other one
22:16:35Learkugel: Not really. I just found the behavior a bit odd (and thinking it might be a bug).
22:16:59BigBambigevaerts, fml: aha, sorry - I misunderstoof fml's question then
22:17:55kugelLear: I'm not sure, but maybe this can clear it up for you
22:19:17BagderI think Lear's question was fully warranted, as me neither never got the impression the fix had anything to do with plain whitespaces without numbers
22:20:00gevaertskugel: that page doesn't talk about non-leading spaces
22:20:04pixelmagevaerts: thanks for clarification
22:20:39fmlgevaerts, BigBambi: here's my take: There is still one occurrence of "you". But without it it becomes too formal IMO
22:20:42*bluebrother agrees with Bagder
22:21:30gevaertsfml: maybe also make that first one "the computer". I don't think many people will wonder which computer is meant
22:21:43bluebrotherbtw, to all working on the manual: I recently stumbled upon the idea to end every sentence with a newline in the LaTeX sources to avoid large block reformatting to keep line widths
22:21:54BigBambifml: Looks fine, but I'd change either the first your computer to the, or the second the computer to your
22:22:00bluebrotherwhen changing sentences / paragraphs. Sounds like a good idea to me.
22:22:17kugelwell, I don't find it odd at all. even if it's unrelated to numbers, I wouldn't sort differently if I wrote those filenames down
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22:22:21gevaertsbluebrother: mainly nice for diffs I guess
22:22:48Bagderkugel: the entire discussion about this feature was about sorting numbers, at least in my view it was
22:23:00gevaertskugel: "a test.txt", "a test.txt", "a te st.txt". Which sorts first?
22:23:19*BigBambi has no idea
22:23:32*gevaerts doesn't care much, but it has to be well defined
22:23:32rasherBagder: Well, it's about "sorting like humans", not "by comparing each byte in turn"
22:23:39fmlBigBambi: better so: ?
22:23:42rasherThe most obvious thing is the numbers
22:23:43Bagderyes, but with regards to numbers
22:23:54BagderI had no idea it would affect non-numbered strings
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22:24:10kugelgevaerts: that's a different case. and in natsort sense they probably would sort the same
22:24:16BigBambifml: aye
22:24:23Bagder(which only gives me ammo to disable it in my use)
22:24:31gevaertskugel: "the same" doesn't work. That leads to bugs. Different strings need a well defined ordering
22:24:42BigBambifml: I can't remember off hand if we say "your" or "the" more in the manual (when referring to daps, computers , etc)
22:24:44Unhelpfulit should elide leading articles before sorting, too, without even knowing what language it's dealing with
22:24:49bluebrothergevaerts: yes. Maybe we should consider adopting it :)
22:24:52gevaertsfml: I like it that way
22:24:52kugelgevaerts: then fix it
22:25:08kugelit's not my code. it's taken from a person who wrote it
22:25:16gevaertsYou committed it
22:25:17bluebrotherkugel: who imported the code?
22:25:29pixelmagevaerts: how does "1. test.mp3" and "01. test.mp3" then?
22:25:35Unhelpfulkugel: "the same" if *both* strings are in the sorted list means "some arbitrary order relative to each other" :/
22:25:35BigBambifml: I have a feeling that installation at least might use your more, but it is a mixed bag - we ought to take a decision on which we use then stick to it
22:25:40kugeland the page indicates that it's not entirely about numbers only, I don't know who or what indicated that it was only about numbers
22:25:54gevaertspixelma: same problem.
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22:25:59Bagderkugel: our discussion here has been about numbers
22:26:00kugelnumbers are the most noticeable change, but whitespaces are a bit special too
22:26:18fmlpixelma: the style guide is in the wiki. Where else could I have read this?
22:26:23*bluebrother wouldn't expect some "natural sorting" to drop whitespaces
22:26:45*kugel would
22:26:49pixelmafml: I misunderstood your initial question too...
22:26:53BagderI don't really care, as long as the behavior is documented and known
22:27:02fmlBigBambi: by using both we stress that we are free software −− as in free speech!
22:27:42BigBambifml: hehe :)
22:27:42kugela.txt still sorts before b.txt imo, no matter how much spaces before a.txt are, so I'm very fine with it
22:27:42bluebrotherwell, we can easily see that people expect different things here.
22:27:42rasherbluebrother: regular humans see two strings with different amounts of space, quite likely wouldn't use the amount of space to sort by
22:27:52Bagderbluebrother: yeah, but the "natural sort" will lead to that no matter what we do
22:28:15gevaertskugel: my point isn't about whether spaces or zeros are ignored or not (I prefer pure ascii sorting anyway), but if you sort a list twice, it *must* have the same outcome regardless of starting order, else you're pretty much guaranteed to get obscure bugs later on
22:28:16Bagderor even, pure ascii-based would lead to it as well
22:29:06fmlIf a language file lacks an entry (i.e. english.lang has it, but the other file not), how should it be added? At the end of the other file?
22:29:22rasherfml: It doesn't really matter
22:29:33kugelgevaerts: how? ascii isn't more definied either if strings sort the same, natsort only has a few more cases where strings are equal
22:29:34rasherThe only language where order matters is english.lang
22:29:40pixelmafml: order doesn't matter. Are you looking at deutsch.lang?
22:29:49gevaertskugel: if ascii strings sort the same, they are the same
22:29:55Bagderkugel: sure it is, strcmp() returns the same always
22:30:44*kugel points to the comment "strings compare the same, the caller might want to call strcmp" if that helps
22:30:56amiconngevaerts: list sorting in rockbox uses qsort(), which is a non-stable sorting algorithm. So if the comparison function returns equality for some elements, you cannot expect the final list to have the same order regardless of starting order
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22:31:23*Unhelpful seems to recall that qsort can be made stable, but not how
22:31:26gevaertsamiconn: that's my point. You want to avoid equality in those cases
22:31:30rasherkugel: is strcmp called, then?
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22:31:52rasherI don't see any reason not to do that
22:32:03amiconnThe point is that plain character sorting in a file list never causes equality of two elements (because two files with identical names in a folder are impossible)
22:32:41Unhelpfulwikipedia says this: "Quicksort is a comparison sort and, in efficient implementations, is not a stable sort."
22:32:48amiconnThis natural/ guessing/ whatever sorting however may cause equality of different filenames
22:32:53rasheramiconn: but it's possible with natsort because it folds whitespace
22:33:08gevaertsso natsort needs to break the tie...
22:33:10amiconnYes, and it also kills leading zeros from numbers
22:33:12rasherSo the solution is to call strcmp when strnatcmp returns equal
22:33:13fmlpixelma: among others. It has no "Credits"
22:33:50kugelamiconn: it is possible if you ignore the case
22:34:09BigBambiNot on fat32
22:34:10Bagderkugel: not on fat ;-)
22:34:22pixelmafml: there's a patch in the tracker for it and I got it ready for commit (well, the parts I want to commit. There are some changes in it, I'm not sure of, yet)
22:34:41kugelbut still
22:34:45amiconnYeah, vfat doesn't allow that, hence my 'hmm?'.
22:35:04pixelmafml: that one has the credits and the missing bitrate things. I should probably just commit it...
22:35:06kugelif strcmp was called after, Lear's case wouldn't sort as I expect
22:35:31rasherkugel: it sorts randomly, right now
22:35:36gevaertskugel: if strcmp makes a difference, it's random now
22:35:54fmlpixelma: commit! It's also not in russian.lang (saw at friend's player)
22:36:04gevaertskugel: you're free to invert the strcmp result if you like :)
22:36:08rasherkugel: You can't tell how "a b.txt" and "a b.txt" will sort
22:36:41kugelbut with strcmp "a c.txt" wll sort before "a b.txt"...
22:36:54rasherkugel: but you'll never call strcmp in that case...
22:36:59BigBambiAs I would expect
22:37:02rasherBecause strnatcmp doesn't return equal
22:37:08pixelmafml: okok /me hides ;)
22:37:16kugelrasher: eh, you're right
22:37:22rasherOf course I am :)
22:37:31fmlpixelma: I'll commit it for russian and you take care about deutsch, ok?
22:37:37amiconnMaybe strnatcmp() should call strcmp() itself if it would return equality otherwise?
22:37:46gevaertsI think it should
22:37:51kugelthat's the idea
22:37:53Bagdersounds wise to me
22:37:54amiconnHmm, or should it call strcasecmp() instead?
22:37:54rasherProbably makes sense in Rockbox
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22:38:09pixelmafml: alright, just svn-upping and phrase a commit message
22:38:12rasherI suppose the original code doesn't do it because it's more general
22:38:14gevaertsIs strnatcmp() case sensitive?
22:38:23kugelamiconn: I think the caller should call strcmp, that one knows about the setting too
22:38:36kugelgevaerts: strnatcasecmp is
22:39:08gevaertsok. In that case strnatcmp() needs to call strcmp() on equality, and strnatcasecmp needs to call strcasecmp() :)
22:39:49fmlkugel: it's the other wy round: is case INsensitive IIRC
22:40:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:40:38fmlgevaerts: +1
22:41:13kugelfml: really? I think it's called strcasecmp because strcasecmp doesn't ignore the case
22:41:23kugel(the same applies for strnatcasecmp)
22:41:32rasherkugel: and strcmp and strcasecmp?
22:41:38gevaertskugel: no. strcasecmp ignores case
22:41:51kugeloops again, then :(
22:44:13gevaertskugel: strnatcmp and strnatcasecmp are the same as strcmp and strcasecmp according to the source
22:44:40kugelhence the "(the same applies for strnatcasecmp)", but I was wrong about strcmp already, so...
22:45:07rasherfml: still plenty phrases left for Russian
22:45:21fmlpixelma: IIRC you created some fonts by just changing ascent/descent of another font. Are there many such pairs? With the new options of convbdf we could get rid of the duplicated files. But it would be worse from the build point of view. So probably not a good idea.
22:45:46fmlrasher: I use english anyway! :-)
22:46:20rasherpetur: did you see the dutch translation in the tracker?
22:46:28rasherpetur: FS #9997
22:46:35petureuh no...
22:46:38*amiconn doesn't understand why strnat*cmp even exists in a case sensitive version
22:46:43gevaertskugel: I think should do it
22:46:43peturI just committed my own :/
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22:47:56peturrasher: I guess he translated the first one a bit better
22:47:57rasherpetur: Yeah, I saw. Well, maybe there's something interesting, maybe it should just be closed
22:48:08*petur goes to change
22:49:03kugelgevaerts: well, I don't know about the NULL safety of strcmp. the filetree calls strncmp, not strcmp
22:49:11fmlamiconn: for the sake of technical completeness?
22:49:52kugelgevaerts: I was preparing this
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22:50:14kugelNULL / overflow safety
22:50:20fmlamiconn: But I agree: RB should only use the case insensitive natcmp.
22:50:28pixelmafml: I created 10-Nimbus and 11-Nimbus myself, mostly manually and relied on fontforge to get those settings right. The only other one I created was the 13 point version of Nimbus (14 was only a version of the 12 pixels tall one with 2 lines more spacing so I created the 13 one with one more line of spacing, this size was needed after the deletion of "Chicago-12" which was actually 13 pixels tall)
22:50:52pixelmaI don't remember the details how...
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22:51:14gevaertskugel: strnatcmp() doesn't look NULL-safe anyway
22:52:40gevaertskugel: I really think the fixup belongs in strnatcmp() itself. Otherwise if someone ever uses it elsewhere there will be surprises
22:53:00kugelgevaerts: but why does filetree.c do strncmp then?
22:53:08fmlpixelma: nimbus12 and nimbus14 are similar nut not the same. Compare the lower part of "y".
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22:53:48kugelgevaerts: or just do strncmp with MAX_PATH, that will always work in rockbox (and MAX_PATH is used in filetree too)
22:54:17peturrasher: I guess I'll need to add him to credits for this one string?
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22:54:33rasherpetur: Might as well. And the lang header also
22:54:53*petur commits the same file a third time
22:55:01gevaertskugel: all that doesn't matter. If you get there the strings are safe, otherwise you'd have crashed somewhere inside strnatcmp() itself. Using -n variants in there only makes sense if you also write strnnatcmp()
22:55:22bluebrotherpetur: three time's a charm ;-)
22:55:25pixelmabut the characters have the same "base" height (maybe not accents etc.) and now that you tell me, I seem to remember that they also have a slightly different set of characters
22:55:36pixelmafml ^
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22:56:45kugelgevaerts: then we surely don't need the n version in filetree too
22:57:49pixelmafml: I just tried to explain how Nimbus-13 was made back then (and why there could be errors in the ascent/decent), didn't check though
22:58:27gevaertskugel: I don't know. Either we don't need it or we do. If we do, strnatcmp is not appropriate here, and only strnnatcmp is (and the current code is buggy). You need someone who knows the code though, not me
22:59:21kugelgevaerts: then just commit (but change the above commit too), ok?
22:59:46gevaertskugel: the above commit?
23:00:06gevaertsah, good point
23:01:31gevaertsthat file is really indented in a weird way...
23:02:11fmlpixelma: ok. So nimbus13 = nimbus12 with extended descent. A comment should be probably added to nimbus13 (that it's based on 12) so that if 12 is changed, 13 is adjusted as well
23:04:01*pixelma now knows how petur felt (almost)
23:05:04gevaertskugel: committed
23:05:35*gevaerts has no idea how Lear's examples will sort now
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23:06:13kugelgevaerts: lol, I thought it's not random anymore?
23:06:38gevaertskugel: exactly. It should sort the same every time now :)
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23:07:41kugelwell, it should be like this: "A b.txt" and "A b.txt" still sort before "A c.txt", using natsort, just that "A b.txt" comes before "A b.txt" due to strcmp now
23:08:19pixelmahmm, some warnings in svenska.lang (user: not specified, probably from applying a slightly older patch)
23:09:07pixelmasome Swedes want to fix?
23:09:17gevaertslooks like it, yes. If people want "A b.txt" and "A b.txt" the other way, just add a - before strcasecmp()
23:10:36MTeelinuxstb : the parser now displays the details of each data packet correctly, now if I copy the actual audio data to an output file I should be able to play it, right ?
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23:11:36Learpixelma: I think I translated the serial strings before user: was put to use.
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23:14:02pixelmaLear: had a similar problem in deutsch.lang but noticed before when building for one of my targets
23:14:04fmlpixelma: just the last question for today: should "credits" be really translated to "credits"?
23:14:52pixelmado you have a better idea?
23:15:41rasherWhat does gnome's about boxes say?
23:15:55fml"Danksagungen"? Not quite that but still not English :-) Or "Sie waren es!" :-)
23:16:29pixelma"Danke an:"
23:17:04fml"Our heroes"
23:17:35gevaerts"Who to blame"
23:17:38bluebrotherfml: "Sie waren es!" (Achtung! Bissige Entwickler) ;-)
23:17:38fmlpixelma: the colon at the end of a menu entry wouldn't look good IMO
23:18:38fmlgevaerts: hehe
23:19:20*kugel isn't sure about changing the case of leise, mittel and laut, but doesn't care much
23:19:41pixelmabluebrother: * pointing fingers *
23:19:55*bluebrother hides
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23:20:45pixelmakugel: it's just in the voice string and for consistency, and I noticed your lower case settings for the sorting and wasn't too happy about it too
23:20:51mcuelenaereBagder: could you add Onda VX747 bootloader + normal to the build table?
23:21:32kugelah right, it's only the voice
23:21:33amiconngevaerts: Btw, there must be a way to detect safe removal even if the device doesn't identify itself as removable storage
23:21:51Bagdermcuelenaere: I'll be happy, I'll just need to make sure the system can deal with mips first
23:22:26amiconnThe ISD300 does this, and the cowon loader displays "OK to Disconnect" when I safely remove the X5. And the X5 identifies as a harddisk, not as removable storage
23:22:48pixelmathe Sansa OF does too, IIRC
23:23:08pixelmait leaves its "connected" screen
23:23:21amiconnThe sansa does identify as removable storage though
23:23:35Bagderhm, anyone with a build server with the mipsel toolchain installed?
23:23:46 Quit homielowe ()
23:23:57pixelmasorry, drew conclusions too quickly
23:23:57JdGordon|Bagder: i tinhk mine has it installed
23:24:06JdGordon|oh fuck.. sorry mine is offline atm :p
23:24:17amiconnBagder: mine has it too
23:24:21*JdGordon| must think before typing a bit more
23:24:32rasherBagder: installing it as we speak
23:24:33Bagdergreat, mine has it as well
23:24:45JdGordon|more builds coming up?
23:25:21Bagderyes, onda ones
23:26:03amiconnBagder: It's also already added to the path in
23:26:18Bagderah, nice reminder
23:26:31pixelmaand the blame goes to...
23:28:19Bagderlooks like mcuelenaere's change
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23:28:57 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.1b4pre/20090307035009]")
23:29:23Alex00088Any chance RB will one day transfer files over USB as fast as the OF, on my Sansa c200 series?
23:29:32mcuelenaerewoops, I should've checked that better
23:29:35 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
23:30:43Bagderwell now we got to see how the blame script worked with three committers! ;-)
23:31:45amiconngevaerts: Maybe there's a method based on usb states (as opposed to scsi commands)?
23:33:48 Quit tyfoo ("Carpe diem")
23:33:56Alex00088one day I'm gonna set up a RAID 0.
23:33:59 Quit Alex00088 ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
23:34:56LambdaCalculus37Alex00088: That's very nice and all, but keep it on-topic here.
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23:41:27kugelinteresting. bertriks #include cleanup broke my customlist patch
23:43:19kugelmy string isn't read from the config anymore
23:45:50 Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection)
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23:47:26kugeluhh, the removal of "#include <button.h>" apparently breaks TEXT_SETTING
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23:51:34kugelI *really* do not understand this
23:51:34Bagderright, I should fix that when I add the new ones
23:51:49 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:52:53Bagdermcuelenaere: doesn't the onda sim build yet?
23:53:02mcuelenaereBagder: I'm working on it :)
23:53:06mcuelenaerebut no, currently it doesn't
23:53:11Bagderok, jsut curious
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23:56:18Bagderok, two onda builds added now we only need a commit
23:58:52*kugel got it

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