| 00:00:00 | rasher | kugel: What do you mean? |
| 00:00:29 | kugel | rasher: what Llorean said a few minutes ago |
| 00:00:30 | rasher | There's one perfectly valid ID3v1 tag. And one perfectly valid ID3v2 tag. Rockbox decides that it's had enough after reading the v2 tag. |
| 00:01:45 | kugel | I don't think we need id3v1 at all, but supporting a mix of v1 and v2 seems even worse to me |
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| 00:03:27 | rasher | Telling a user "this file has no tags" while it is in fact fully tagged is just stupid. |
| 00:03:35 | rasher | I don't see how you can argue otherwise. |
| 00:04:36 | rasher | Unless we've adopted a policy of lying to the user when we think they're doing something slightly out of the ordinary and no one told me |
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| 00:07:06 | | Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.) |
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| 00:08:38 | kugel | rasher: lying? Do we explicitly tell we support mixed tags? I don't think we're lying of the user expects this to be supported because desktop apps do |
| 00:09:14 | kugel | It's just a matter of documenting it. Supporting the mixture is bad practice, IMO |
| 00:09:47 | rasher | That's a cop-out. "We didn't say we explicitly supported ______ so expecting it is your own fault, no matter how weird it is" |
| 00:10:16 | | Quit bertrik ("Leaving") |
| 00:10:22 | rasher | Bad practice why? |
| 00:10:55 | rasher | It makes perfect sense "the first tag I tried was obviously incomplete, let's try the next *that I would have read anyway if the first one wasn't there*" |
| 00:11:46 | | Quit fyrestorm ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]") |
| 00:11:58 | * | gevaerts is on rasher's side on this one |
| 00:13:27 | rasher | By the way, what is up with flyspray putting linebreaks in mail subjects? |
| 00:13:35 | rasher | Pretty poor form |
| 00:15:45 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 00:17:47 | * | bluebrother is with rasher on the id3 tag issue and leaves for sleep |
| 00:17:57 | | Quit bluebrother ("bye") |
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| 00:22:00 | rasher | How about an id3v2 tag with no frames (again, perfectly valid), should Rockbox also throw its hands in the air and say "I'm done!" after "reading" that? |
| 00:22:47 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 00:23:25 | kugel | rasher: it's bad practice because mixing v1 and v2 is bad practice. supporting bad practice is bad practice too |
| 00:24:04 | rasher | "It's bad because it's bad and it's bad because I say so." |
| 00:24:09 | JdGordon| | we used to have an option of which to read v1 or v2 first, that was removed I tihnk because it wass decided v2 obviously deprecated v1... so if a file has any v2 tags at all v1 should be ignored |
| 00:24:27 | gevaerts | kugel: that logic leads to implementing a single lossless codec |
| 00:25:08 | rasher | JdGordon|: That doesn't necessarily follow at all |
| 00:25:12 | kugel | it's all up to personal opinions, of course |
| 00:25:44 | rasher | It also leads to removing all handling of unconventional files. |
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| 00:25:52 | | Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.) |
| 00:25:54 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
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| 00:26:05 | | Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 00:26:05 | kugel | gevaerts: Uhm, I don't think so |
| 00:26:13 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 00:26:38 | kugel | v1 should be ignored entirely, imo. Let it die, we have v2 now, which is obviously better |
| 00:26:53 | gevaerts | kugel: sure. You can transcode from one lossless codec to another without bad effects, so more than one lossless codec is useless. Lossy codecs lose qualiy, so they're useless too |
| 00:26:55 | rasher | kugel: APE should be ignored entirely, imo. Let it die, we have FLAC, which is obviously better. |
| 00:27:06 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: there is a difference between supporting choice and taking deprecated tags when the replacement is there |
| 00:27:19 | rasher | JdGordon|: The replacement *IS NOT THERE* |
| 00:27:22 | kugel | rasher: Dude, that's entirely different |
| 00:27:22 | mcuelenaere | can somebody explain me how timers work in Rockbox? |
| 00:27:29 | rasher | kugel: It's exactly the same. |
| 00:27:31 | | Join mark___ [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-235-224-88.mco.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:27:36 | kugel | FLAC isn't APEv2 |
| 00:27:45 | JdGordon| | rasher: if the v2 header is there then they are there... regardless of its contents |
| 00:28:00 | JdGordon| | you sholdnt have broken tags which is what this is... |
| 00:28:02 | rasher | JdGordon|: So even if the tag doesn't have any information, that' |
| 00:28:04 | kugel | id3v2 succeeds id3v1. FLAC "competes" with APE. That's so not the same |
| 00:28:04 | rasher | JdGordon|: So even if the tag doesn't have any information, that's more than enough |
| 00:28:08 | rasher | JdGordon|: THEY ARE NOT BROKEN |
| 00:28:37 | | Join arohtar [0] (n=faemir@88-106-169-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 00:28:42 | kugel | Do you blame microsoft for not supporting win3.1 anymore too? |
| 00:28:48 | | Nick mark___ is now known as caspy7 (n=chatzill@adsl-235-224-88.mco.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:29:00 | * | n1s wonders why all the yelling is necessary |
| 00:29:01 | rasher | kugel: You're making a fool of yourself. |
| 00:29:08 | * | gevaerts decides to only support linux with the USB stack. The others are obsolete anyway |
| 00:29:17 | JdGordon| | rasher: is there a 1:1 mapping of v2 to v2 tags? |
| 00:29:20 | kugel | rasher: You are when you comparing with ape vs flac |
| 00:29:32 | pixelma | rasher: to take your argument further (search in the v1 tag if something is missing in the v2) would mean - always read both tags - or your method will work for *some* tags that we chosen to be the most important ones. Or people will ask "why isn't it reading e.g.the genre tag that's in my v1 tags but not in the v2 while it works with album?" |
| 00:29:41 | rasher | kugel: I never said they were the exact same, I'm saying the logic leads to that thinking. |
| 00:29:53 | rasher | pixelma: I never said *always* read both tags. |
| 00:29:55 | kugel | rasher: "rasher>kugel: It's exactly the same." |
| 00:30:06 | rasher | kugel: The same situation. And it is. |
| 00:30:32 | rasher | JdGordon|: I've no idea what you're saying. |
| 00:30:42 | kugel | then it's the same for win XP+ and win 3.1 |
| 00:30:58 | kugel | I'm not making a fool of myself more than you. |
| 00:31:07 | rasher | kugel: Not at all. It's in no way relevant to Rockbox. |
| 00:31:12 | kugel | But I'm done with this discussion now, hiding in my fool corner |
| 00:31:20 | rasher | Thank you. |
| 00:31:38 | JdGordon| | rasher: i'm saying... how can you know if a tag is missing in v2 if you dont have a mapping of which v1 tags are equivilant to v2? |
| 00:31:54 | rasher | JdGordon|: We've been through that. Read back |
| 00:32:13 | * | JdGordon| will have to read and return to argue later tonight after work |
| 00:32:15 | gevaerts | If there's not a single displayable v2 tag, use v1. If there is at least one, use v2 |
| 00:32:29 | | Quit arohtar (Client Quit) |
| 00:33:34 | pixelma | replaygain tags (or at least their type) are displayable |
| 00:33:38 | caspy7 | perhaps it's a shot in the dark that anyone would have knowledge of this, but I just got a refurbished sansa c240 player and I went to put it in MSC mode, but the USB menu option described in the instruciton manual is not present so I can't do it |
| 00:33:44 | caspy7 | anyone seen this before? |
| 00:33:45 | JdGordon| | thats not whats the task bug says though.. there is a difference between no tags at all, and missing tags |
| 00:34:06 | caspy7 | also, how can I know if this is a 1.0 or a 2.0 player to it's supportable by rockbox? |
| 00:34:06 | rasher | caspy7: I think you need to downgrade or upgrade your OF |
| 00:34:17 | rasher | caspy7: Check the firmware version |
| 00:34:28 | caspy7 | rasher: what does OF stand for? |
| 00:34:33 | rasher | Original Firmware |
| 00:34:40 | caspy7 | rasher: how can I check the firmware? |
| 00:34:50 | saratoga | i think theres a FAQ entry for this on the wiki |
| 00:34:53 | rasher | It's somewhere in the menus |
| 00:34:53 | saratoga | i'd check there |
| 00:34:55 | pixelma | rasher: I know, but if you start to support the mixture halfway people won't understand why you don't do it completely |
| 00:35:17 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts: I suppose set_serial_descriptor() needs to be unique to each device? |
| 00:35:27 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: yes |
| 00:35:46 | rasher | pixelma: This isn't true if you use the "any displayable (in the WPS) tag" method |
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| 00:36:10 | pixelma | [00:33:34] <pixelma> replaygain tags (or at least their type) are displayable |
| 00:37:05 | JdGordon| | rasher: whats the difference between displayable tags and generally used tags? |
| 00:37:45 | JdGordon| | replaygain tags are defiently important even if they cant be displayed in the wps |
| 00:38:13 | rasher | I don't see what you're getting at |
| 00:39:36 | JdGordon| | that example track had some valid v2 tags... if it has any at all then v1 tags should be ignored completly (im happy to check v1 IF there is no v2 tags, or only the header) |
| 00:39:52 | JdGordon| | but if there is a single v2 tag we know about then v1 has to be ignored |
| 00:40:10 | | Quit ender (" An eye for an eye only leads to more blindness. -- Margaret Atwood") |
| 00:41:34 | rasher | So we can point at users and laugh at their "invalid" (because we say so) tags? |
| 00:41:45 | rasher | Why not do the right thing and actually work *for* the user? |
| 00:42:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:42:24 | JdGordon| | which is why i asked before... how can you merge the 2 sets of tags (giving v2 priority) if you dont know how to map v1 to v2 tags? |
| 00:42:29 | rasher | Rather than spitefully ignoring his tags that are actually there |
| 00:43:08 | rasher | JdGordon|: We've done that for years! Stop being willfully obtuse |
| 00:43:29 | * | JdGordon| is confused |
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| 00:43:58 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts: what should I do if there's no unique identifier? |
| 00:44:05 | rasher | We've supported v1 and v2 for many years and managed to display them in the WPS just fine |
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| 00:44:13 | mcuelenaere | oh you went to sleep |
| 00:45:04 | | Quit faemir (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:45:29 | JdGordon| | if thats what we've supported for years, and they are being shown in the wps they are being loaded... so whats the rpoblem? |
| 00:45:56 | rasher | JdGordon|: FS #10016. |
| 00:46:02 | pixelma | rasher: your method would say they are invalid for some too, just at a later point |
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| 00:46:42 | rasher | pixelma: So we shouldn't improve the situation because there might still be corner-cases? |
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| 00:50:30 | pixelma | I just don't like the perspective of always reading both tags, which I could *imagine* to happen if corner-case affected people demand more (and then have an additional argument that it's partially supported) |
| 00:52:37 | | Quit miepchen^schla () |
| 00:52:45 | rasher | There's no such slippery slope. 1) I can't come up with any actual valid cases 2) Implementing code that leads to *always* reading both tags is easy to reject on performance reasons. |
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| 00:53:14 | JdGordon| | it has to be always.... |
| 00:53:55 | rasher | It really really doesn't. |
| 00:54:12 | JdGordon| | if its possible than even one v1 tag is there when a v2 tag is missing then you always have to read both |
| 00:54:30 | mcuelenaere | are there any sources for the cabbiev2 theme? |
| 00:54:41 | saratoga | once again i think the idea was to ignore TXXX frames, not diff the two tags |
| 00:54:54 | rasher | JdGordon|: This has been explained again and again. |
| 00:55:01 | saratoga | mcuelenaere: yes theres actually a theme file for it, although the version you get by default is hard coded |
| 00:55:05 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepel@p579EC44F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:55:14 | saratoga | its on the themes wiki |
| 00:55:19 | rasher | mcuelenaere: What kind of source, the images? |
| 00:55:30 | mcuelenaere | yes, more specifically the background image |
| 00:55:35 | mcuelenaere | (I need a bigger version for the Onda) |
| 00:55:42 | rasher | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/DefaultWPS/cabbie2graphics.zip |
| 00:55:47 | mcuelenaere | thanks |
| 00:56:29 | rasher | It was a bit messy in GIMP, but I managed to extract the volume meter at least. |
| 00:56:49 | mcuelenaere | hmm Photoshop complains about missing fonts |
| 00:56:57 | JdGordon| | what size screen is the onda? |
| 00:57:19 | | Quit StealthyXIIGer () |
| 00:57:33 | mcuelenaere | 400x240 (or 240x400) |
| 00:57:35 | rasher | mcuelenaere: I guess gimp didn't even try to do anything with fonts |
| 00:57:41 | mcuelenaere | currently it's set to 240x400 |
| 00:57:45 | JdGordon| | ok |
| 00:57:58 | * | mcuelenaere isn't sure which to choose |
| 00:58:14 | JdGordon| | does it have a dock? |
| 00:58:31 | mcuelenaere | nope |
| 00:58:55 | * | JdGordon| thinks we should supply 2 different builds for the touchscreen targets so people can choose which orientation they prefer |
| 00:59:08 | mcuelenaere | hmm the cabiev2 background theme source is 220x176? how did they generate 320x240 of that? |
| 00:59:23 | mcuelenaere | JdGordon|: that, or dynamic rotation |
| 00:59:33 | JdGordon| | yeah, or that |
| 00:59:35 | pixelma | saratoga: can you explain in a few words for someone uninformed what TXXX tags can be (contain)? |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:01 | | Quit _Auron_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:00:02 | kugel | JdGordon|: how hard would it be to have it configurable at runtime? |
| 01:00:05 | rasher | pixelma: Any name=value pair. It's impossible to know in advance. |
| 01:00:17 | kugel | I don't think RAM for shipping both codes is an issue on these targets |
| 01:00:18 | mcuelenaere | kugel: LCD_WIDTH & LCD_HEIGHT are #define's.. |
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| 01:00:42 | mcuelenaere | or are you talking about something else? |
| 01:00:44 | kugel | ahh, I got it wrong, sorry |
| 01:00:45 | rasher | It would certainly require major surgey to the Rockbox code |
| 01:01:00 | kugel | yea, I thought the talk was about the keymap, sorry |
| 01:01:04 | pixelma | rasher: huh? So even album, artist etc? |
| 01:01:10 | kugel | s/keymap/input method/ |
| 01:01:22 | JdGordon| | touchscreens dont have keymaps so its easier... |
| 01:01:28 | mcuelenaere | a rotationable input method? |
| 01:01:29 | JdGordon| | or wont once the ui is working properly |
| 01:01:38 | rasher | pixelma: I don't see why you'd put it there unless you're inventing your own tagging, but yes. No programs will read that though |
| 01:01:44 | rasher | (and rightfully so) |
| 01:01:45 | kugel | but it's grid vs "the other method" (what ever that is called) |
| 01:02:03 | rasher | pixelma: But it's really just for freeform named text content |
| 01:02:15 | mcuelenaere | kugel: 'normal' touch input? |
| 01:02:31 | mcuelenaere | IMO the grid is a bit of a hack |
| 01:02:36 | kugel | oh it's the "normal"? Why is the grid one the default, then |
| 01:02:44 | mcuelenaere | because not all screens are ported |
| 01:02:58 | JdGordon| | yeah, the grid isnt very useful |
| 01:02:58 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (i=thunderc@persistence.flat.devzero.co.uk) |
| 01:03:13 | kugel | but you can choose at runtime between each? |
| 01:03:17 | * | JdGordon| hopes to do touchscreen work on sunday thanks to kkurbjun's latest effort |
| 01:03:20 | pixelma | rasher: aha, so not the standard way of tagging |
| 01:03:21 | mcuelenaere | not on all targets I think |
| 01:03:29 | rasher | pixelma: Certainly not |
| 01:03:45 | JdGordon| | kugel: untill everything is working, screens will say which method to use.. |
| 01:04:18 | kugel | JdGordon|: may I ask what happened to your wps-next-track rework? |
| 01:04:41 | kugel | you have a hwcodec target now, and I'd like to see it in svn |
| 01:04:59 | JdGordon| | i havnt got my desktop back yet, and no cable to connect the archos to a comp |
| 01:05:07 | JdGordon| | i get both of them tomorow though |
| 01:05:36 | kugel | ah cool |
| 01:05:47 | pixelma | having a target also doesn't mean knowing its code by hard |
| 01:06:10 | JdGordon| | touchscreen work might jump the queue though |
| 01:06:12 | kugel | You don't need to tell me |
| 01:06:32 | kugel | but it aids testing, and thus resolving remaining |
| 01:06:38 | kugel | issue |
| 01:07:00 | JdGordon| | well ths one is impossible to get anywhere without the hwcodec because testing hasnt helped much |
| 01:07:18 | JdGordon| | s/.../ the people who know the code havnt helped out |
| 01:07:44 | * | JdGordon| heads home |
| 01:07:46 | kugel | yea |
| 01:07:49 | | Quit JdGordon| ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 01:10:45 | amiconn | wps-next-track rework? What's that do? |
| 01:14:57 | kugel | amiconn: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9795 |
| 01:17:19 | | Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") |
| 01:18:37 | mcuelenaere | how can I trigger wpsbuild.pl with make? |
| 01:18:48 | | Quit faemir ("Leaving") |
| 01:19:58 | kugel | mcuelenaere: "make install"? |
| 01:20:35 | kugel | or make tar etc. I believe the themes & fonts aren't done during normal make |
| 01:20:38 | mcuelenaere | kugel: doesn't 'make zip' also does this? |
| 01:20:53 | kugel | see above ;) |
| 01:21:22 | mcuelenaere | :) anyway, I'm doing something wrong as cabbie isn't showing up in my wps folder.. |
| 01:21:46 | amiconn | That patch seems to cause more problems than it's fixing... |
| 01:22:14 | mcuelenaere | kugel: does http://pastebin.com/m48aee274 look correct? |
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| 01:23:36 | kugel | mcuelenaere: Do you you have the wps done? |
| 01:23:53 | mcuelenaere | what do you mean with 'having the wps done'? |
| 01:23:56 | kugel | You need to have the .wps complete, else the .cfg won't be build either |
| 01:24:25 | mcuelenaere | oh so there needs to be a cabbiev2.240x400x16.wps file? |
| 01:24:30 | kugel | yea |
| 01:25:41 | * | mcuelenaere basically stretched the background of the gigabeat cabbiev2 and made sure the controls stayed on the same position |
| 01:25:47 | | Quit killan_ ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )") |
| 01:26:25 | linuxstb | rasher: How's the theme site going? Is it close to committing? |
| 01:26:46 | linuxstb | Or rather, is it close to being a theme site? |
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| 01:27:15 | | Quit midijunkie (Client Quit) |
| 01:27:23 | rasher | I've not really done anything with it since the weekend. Just pushed some changes to the git repository though |
| 01:27:44 | linuxstb | So what's left on the to-do list? |
| 01:28:09 | * | linuxstb sees the site has a TODO list... |
| 01:29:05 | linuxstb | rasher: Are they all things you consider necessary before making it live? |
| 01:29:18 | rasher | I think we can live without some of them |
| 01:29:21 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:29:21 | JdGordon | amiconn: it doesnt cause any problems... hwcodec is broken with the patch though which is why i have been asking for help on it for 2 months |
| 01:29:54 | amiconn | There are several problems for swcodec mentioned which you just put aside as "unimportant" |
| 01:29:54 | rasher | linuxstb: The short term ones are essential I think. And we probably also *need* logging |
| 01:30:12 | amiconn | And I doN#t understand what this patch is trying to fix... wps does work, doesn't it? |
| 01:30:18 | linuxstb | JdGordon: The task says that it breaks runtime data collection though? |
| 01:30:25 | rasher | linuxstb: Because something will go wrong, and we'll want to know whodunnit |
| 01:30:34 | JdGordon | linuxstb: not intentionally... |
| 01:31:00 | amiconn | Also, I would be a lousy tester for that stuff. I don't use runtime data, I don't use cuesheets, I don't use next track info... |
| 01:31:03 | linuxstb | JdGordon: That's even worse than breaking it intentionally... |
| 01:31:37 | | Quit jeffronius (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 01:31:57 | JdGordon | amiconn: sure, but the hwcodedc bugs are apparently painfully obvious... and you know the area (at least more than me) |
| 01:32:57 | JdGordon | linuxstb: yes, but thats only a problem if its ready to be comited.. which this isnt |
| 01:33:34 | amiconn | The brokenness is about next track info, which none of my wps'es has |
| 01:33:47 | mcuelenaere | why does have WPSLIST have backdrops/cabbiev2.* listed? (and stating it's the source filename) Shouldn't that be cabbiev2/wpsbackdrop-* ? |
| 01:34:28 | amiconn | But the point here is that next track info on hwcodec only becomes availbale when the first part of next track is buffered, i.e. usually *between* track changes |
| 01:34:51 | amiconn | So only doing a full redraw of trackchange is fundamentally broken behaviour on hwcodec |
| 01:35:07 | JdGordon | that shouldnt make a difference... the patch tries to let the WPS know when that info is avilable |
| 01:35:21 | JdGordon | and when the wps gets that event it does a full redraw |
| 01:36:08 | | Quit tarbo (Connection timed out) |
| 01:36:16 | * | JdGordon doesnt really remember what problems that patch was done to fix :p |
| 01:36:46 | | Quit Conic () |
| 01:37:24 | kugel | JdGordon: seems to be related to the cue sheet patch, which revealed some problems |
| 01:37:32 | kugel | according to an early comment |
| 01:37:37 | JdGordon | ah yes |
| 01:38:59 | kugel | basically the problem is that wps and playback both implement track change codes, it should be all done in playback |
| 01:39:02 | amiconn | Aha, a new event |
| 01:39:23 | | Join killan [0] (n=nnscript@c-02fc70d5.06-397-67626721.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 01:39:30 | kugel | fading on pause is only done in wps, which is broken imo. the same goes for skip length and other stuff |
| 01:39:43 | | Quit _jhMikeS_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:40:05 | kugel | (and it appeared to me, that the patch tries to clean those things up) |
| 01:40:11 | JdGordon | amiconn: ? |
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| 01:47:03 | JdGordon | .... amiconn: what was "aha, a new event" meant to mean? good or bad? |
| 01:47:55 | pixelma | mcuelenaere: I think that's the menu backdrop, the WPS backdrop should only be specified in the .wps file |
| 01:48:31 | mcuelenaere | oh ok, thanks |
| 01:49:17 | amiconn | Just that you added another even for next track info availability |
| 01:51:58 | JdGordon | is that a bad thing? or nuetral? I know there has been almost no talk about how much we really want to use events and where we should and sholdnt use them |
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| 02:10:03 | * | kugel doesn't think it's a bad think |
| 02:10:42 | kugel | it's not much different from queue posting and broadcasting, we use that extensively too |
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| 02:42:26 | Strife89 | Feature freeze for Rockbox 3.2? |
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| 04:00:50 | dmb | hey |
| 04:02:00 | dmb | is there any prebuilt development version of an e200 v2 image? |
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| 04:26:13 | pathologic__ | I've managed to use sendfirm to transfer an nk.bin file to my Gigabeat S30. I extracted Rockbox into the right partition, but my Gigabeat still tells me "File not found". Can anybody help? |
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| 05:11:49 | countrymonkey | Could fs#10004 please be looked at? If not the voice patch, only the chinese correction. |
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| 08:29:49 | amiconn | Hmm. I guess we should do something about the physical sector size thing as those disks will probably become more widespread |
| 08:31:12 | amiconn | Problem is, if we increase MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE to 4096, it will both waste RAM for all other users *and* be slower for those 4KB-sector drives |
| 08:31:58 | amiconn | Those drives are able to split/join sectors themselves, which is more efficient than rockbox doing it |
| 08:32:32 | linuxstb | A new build? |
| 08:32:42 | amiconn | Just the original 80GB ipod video's hdd isn't, and hence needs rockbox doing it |
| 08:33:07 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 08:33:45 | amiconn | I think that since it's a firmware quirk in that specific drive, the ata driver should probably check for that specific drive, and only do internal large sector management for this drive. |
| 08:34:59 | amiconn | Another alternative would be probing the drive, if a name check is undesired |
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| 08:35:49 | amiconn | I.e. try a 512-byte read, and if the drive responds with IDNF, enable large sector handling |
| 08:38:05 | | Quit nuonguy ("This computer has gone to sleep") |
| 08:38:53 | n1s | if you are fairly certain this is only done by those drives i think a name check is fine (if it's significantly simpler than the probe) |
| 08:41:12 | amiconn | Someone (I don't remember who) tested rockbox on such a disk with MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE set to 4096 versus MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE being undefined. The latter still worked and gave better performance |
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| 08:54:05 | lucent | Hi, how is Sansa Fuze port coming along since I last dropped in a month ago? |
| 08:54:22 | lucent | still data > 1GB issues? |
| 08:57:14 | linuxstb | lucent: I think so. You can check the changelog for what's been committed related to the fuze - http://www.rockbox.org/since-4weeks.html |
| 08:57:41 | lucent | good link, thanks linuxstb |
| 08:58:29 | linuxstb | It's the "since 4 weeks" link on the front page (underneath the last 5 svn commits) |
| 08:58:37 | linuxstb | Or rather "last four weeks" |
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| 09:00 |
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| 09:03:47 | lucent | r20058: Fix occasional power button ghost presses and get rid of the delay which was needed to reduce the ghost presses (i.e. don't read power button too during lcd updates) |
| 09:03:50 | lucent | Yay! |
| 09:04:01 | lucent | I swore there was something strange going on with my 8GB fuze :P |
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| 09:11:02 | scorche | B4gder: so, did you want to go ahead and submit the org application? (unless anyone else had any other thoughts...) |
| 09:11:21 | B4gder | ah right, I'll go and do that right now |
| 09:11:50 | B4gder | and for the record, their gsoc logo for 2009 is uglier than ever before ;-) |
| 09:12:01 | scorche | shhhh! |
| 09:14:47 | * | linuxstb visits http://code.google.com and doesn't think much of the Google I/O logo either, but that's not easy to create a logo for... |
| 09:15:51 | bubsy | I like it |
| 09:16:06 | lucent | The I/O logo? it's too frail |
| 09:16:14 | B4gder | and their web app is always as impossible to even grasp |
| 09:16:19 | * | scorche notes that this isnt -community |
| 09:16:22 | B4gder | man they confuse me |
| 09:16:27 | lucent | looks more like ICO |
| 09:16:34 | scorche | B4gder: what part? |
| 09:16:43 | scorche | keep in mind that you have to create a profile for you first |
| 09:16:44 | bubsy | lucent: haha |
| 09:16:46 | B4gder | how to apply as a mentor org part |
| 09:16:51 | bubsy | somehow, it does :D |
| 09:17:00 | B4gder | scorche: that too is puzzling to me |
| 09:17:10 | lucent | bubsy: anyways I can say with an informed guess that the logo wasn't their top priority. |
| 09:17:10 | B4gder | and I think I screwed up just now |
| 09:17:19 | scorche | B4gder: feel free to move to PM if you need help.. |
| 09:17:39 | lucent | I wouldn't worry that the logo being attractive or not attractive would impact development as relating to RB |
| 09:17:50 | B4gder | I thought "link id" was for the project, so I wrote "rockbox" and now I think it is for me personally and I can't edit the field anymore... |
| 09:18:04 | scorche | ugh....i was afraid you would say that =/ |
| 09:18:24 | scorche | link_ids are permanent... |
| 09:18:32 | B4gder | haha, ccrrrrrrap |
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| 09:19:56 | linuxstb | Is the main programming period of May 23 to Aug 24 the same as previous years? It strikes me as very early. |
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| 09:20:43 | linuxstb | Is that when the US summer break is? |
| 09:21:40 | lucent | college students I think have a break at the beginning of April, or maybe that is highschool |
| 09:21:45 | lucent | first two weeks or so |
| 09:22:02 | scorche | B4gder: well, we get to wait a while now and hope a single solitary person comes online so he can delete you... |
| 09:22:10 | bubsy | hej Bagder, så du är svensk? :> |
| 09:23:05 | B4gder | bubsy: yah, Rockbox even originated in good old Sweden |
| 09:23:14 | bubsy | (-: |
| 09:23:18 | bubsy | I'm Norwegian tho' |
| 09:23:53 | | Quit pyro_maniac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:24:31 | B4gder | I wonder which country has the largest amount of committers now |
| 09:25:07 | B4gder | it might be US |
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| 10:04:17 | caspy7 | so, what's it mean when I install rockbox and start up my player and it eternally blinks the rockbox startup screen at me? |
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| 10:11:02 | dionoea | caspy7: must mean that something went wrong. (More info, like the name of the player you're using could help) |
| 10:12:56 | caspy7 | sansa c240 |
| 10:13:07 | caspy7 | I installed and uninstalled twice |
| 10:13:27 | linuxstb | What's the "rockbox startup screen" ? i.e. exactly what do you see on the screen? |
| 10:14:22 | caspy7 | sheesh...I'd have to redo it real quick to tell you, I know it's got the rockbox logo |
| 10:15:27 | caspy7 | is saying the logo enough, or would more info be provided if I reinstalled? |
| 10:15:47 | n1s | caspy7: that usually means that you only installed the bootloader, not the actual rockbox |
| 10:16:09 | n1s | the c200 bootloader has a bug that it just loops if it can't find the main binary |
| 10:16:37 | n1s | loops flashing the logo, and _very_ briefly "could not find ..." |
| 10:17:21 | n1s | caspy7: how are you installing? |
| 10:17:54 | caspy7 | yeah, that sounds about right, but I (attempted to) installed both, first I tried the Quick start, then I tried the separate ones under the Installation Tab |
| 10:18:03 | caspy7 | using the RockBox Utility |
| 10:18:40 | n1s | if the install worked you should have a .rockbox dir with the rockbox files in it in the root of the player |
| 10:18:47 | linuxstb | n1s: Has that been fixed in SVN? Looking at main-pp.c, it seems to be the case for all bootloaders using that file... |
| 10:19:27 | n1s | linuxstb: don't know, it's definitely present in the 5.0 version (current official version) |
| 10:19:46 | caspy7 | ok, I'll install and see what's in the filesystem |
| 10:19:49 | linuxstb | Ah no, just if OLD_BOOTFILE is not defined - it's defined for e200 and h10... |
| 10:20:35 | n1s | what does OLD_BOOTFILE mean? |
| 10:21:03 | linuxstb | I think it's the old format for the main Rockbox binary, before we swiched to using mi4 files. |
| 10:21:15 | caspy7 | ok, I just installed the bootloader, I'm curious, where is that kept? |
| 10:21:16 | linuxstb | i.e. the normal scramble -add format. |
| 10:21:32 | n1s | caspy7: in a hidden firmware partition |
| 10:21:39 | caspy7 | ...ah |
| 10:22:02 | n1s | linuxstb: ok, so it shouldn't be defined for c200? |
| 10:22:27 | linuxstb | I think it's probably safe to just remove that now. |
| 10:22:34 | n1s | yeah |
| 10:22:38 | linuxstb | i.e. it was just a transitional thing. |
| 10:22:57 | caspy7 | ok, so I clicked to install Rockbox and it went through progress items and ended with Installation finished successfully |
| 10:23:10 | n1s | maybe this fix should go into the release version of the bootloader? |
| 10:23:17 | caspy7 | what should I see in the filesystem? how can I check? |
| 10:23:38 | n1s | caspy7: <n1s> if the install worked you should have a .rockbox dir with the rockbox files in it in the root of the player |
| 10:23:40 | linuxstb | n1s: Yes, I think so. |
| 10:24:17 | caspy7 | linuxstb: I do not |
| 10:24:28 | caspy7 | the installer utility is lying to me |
| 10:24:42 | n1s | ok, i'll be happy to test if someone fixes it, too busy with exams to hack on it |
| 10:24:59 | caspy7 | also, I noticed that the rockbox installation, despite all the various progress items seeming to be present, goes extremely quickly |
| 10:25:00 | linuxstb | What OS are you using (Windows, OS X, Linux?) Some file browsers will hide ".rockbox" |
| 10:25:10 | caspy7 | OS X |
| 10:25:37 | linuxstb | Then that will hide it. |
| 10:25:43 | linuxstb | (if you're just using Finder) |
| 10:26:04 | caspy7 | I think i've set it before to display hidden files...lemme look in prefs |
| 10:26:56 | linuxstb | But I have a feeling there may be a bug in rbutil with combination of OS X and Sansa - I'm not sure though... |
| 10:27:32 | caspy7 | anyone know off the top of their head the place in OS X finder where show hidden files would be...? |
| 10:27:58 | linuxstb | caspy7: Did you do the "full install" or install the bootloader and Rockbox separately? There's a known bug relating to that - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility#Change_Log |
| 10:28:53 | caspy7 | linuxstb: first I did the full install, then when the problem happened, I uninstalled and tried the separate go |
| 10:31:13 | caspy7 | ok, I looked and there's no .rockbox |
| 10:31:57 | caspy7 | There's .Trashes .Spotlight-V100 and .fseventsd |
| 10:33:02 | n1s | caspy7: you could try a manual install then, just get the zip from rockbox.org and extract it to the player but beware of OSX's unzipping tool... |
| 10:33:38 | caspy7 | n1s: why beware? |
| 10:35:54 | caspy7 | argh, too many options and my brain's not working, all I'm seeing for downloads is the RockBox Utility installer, where would I find the zip? |
| 10:36:00 | BigBambi | B4gder: Could be, but the US is huge - it ought to be EU or US rather than individual EU countries :) |
| 10:36:11 | B4gder | :-) |
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| 10:37:32 | caspy7 | ok, may have found it on the releases page, rockbox-sansac200-3.1.zip yes? |
| 10:38:41 | caspy7 | can anyone tell me why I need to beware the OS X unzipping tool when dealing with the zip? |
| 10:39:23 | | Quit lightbulbjim (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:40:36 | n1s | caspy7: some users have had problems with it creating extra dirs etc so i would recomend using a comand line tool |
| 10:41:20 | n1s | or maybe it did something strange because the zip only contains a hidden dir |
| 10:42:01 | caspy7 | n1s: here's what happened, I double clicked to unzip (I put it in it's own folder just in case) and it created a .rockbox folder full of stuff and a .DS_Store file, both invisible |
| 10:42:16 | caspy7 | that sound good or would you still recommend a 3rd party? |
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| 10:42:46 | n1s | caspy7: ok, as long as that .rockbox dir has all the stuff in it in the correct dir tree you just need to copy that to the root of the sansa |
| 10:43:42 | caspy7 | n1s: done, what about .DS_Store? |
| 10:43:51 | lucent | sounds unrelated |
| 10:43:57 | lucent | probably some OSX thing |
| 10:44:03 | caspy7 | ah |
| 10:44:14 | n1s | yeah, that's a finder thing |
| 10:44:18 | caspy7 | gotcha |
| 10:44:31 | caspy7 | ok, am I ready to give it a go? |
| 10:44:36 | n1s | think so |
| 10:44:46 | caspy7 | k |
| 10:45:18 | n1s | was it the 1.1 version of rbutil you tried? |
| 10:46:48 | caspy7 | holy schnikies, I think it worked |
| 10:46:52 | caspy7 | n1s: yes |
| 10:47:20 | n1s | so it gave no error, just didn't install the files? |
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| 10:48:47 | caspy7 | n1s: thing is, I remember at some point things didn't go right, I know it froze up once or twice and I had to kill it, but I don't remember if that was the first time or not |
| 10:49:06 | caspy7 | my memory ain't so hot |
| 10:49:16 | caspy7 | but subsequent installs gave no error |
| 10:49:21 | | Quit AndyIL () |
| 10:49:43 | n1s | ok, that's a bit bad... |
| 10:49:44 | caspy7 | I know it gave at error when I did the 'quick' and it said that it couldn't install themes |
| 10:50:14 | caspy7 | at least subsequent installs using the separate installer things |
| 10:50:56 | caspy7 | then after it gave the themes warning there was nothing else, no 'success' or anything |
| 10:52:26 | caspy7 | any recommendations for a theme? |
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| 11:00:01 | pixelma | you can try the shipped ones (not many on the c200 but still) and have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsSansaC200 . I woldn't recommend one as it's a matter of taste |
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| 11:00:24 | pewe_kodok | hello sll |
| 11:01:24 | n1s | linuxstb: looking at the bootloader code, this seems like an easy fix but wouldn't we want to try to boot the OF if rockbox is not found? |
| 11:01:30 | pixelma | that reminds me that I still need to figure out why my own theme works 100% as intended in the sim but has a slight flaw on target (fg colour is wrong in one or two viewports) |
| 11:02:55 | lucent | n1s: OF is generally bootable by hold + power |
| 11:03:01 | linuxstb | n1s: I don't think we do on most other targets - we display a message so the user knows why Rockbox failed. But that often causes confusion, so yes, maybe show a message, wait 5 seconds, then start the original firmware would be sensible. |
| 11:03:02 | lucent | so why... |
| 11:03:11 | | Quit lightbulbjim (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:03:25 | linuxstb | (people don't know what to do when their device is "stuck" in the rockbox bootloader) |
| 11:03:53 | n1s | yes, that seems like the friendliest solution |
| 11:04:15 | n1s | just need to rejig some of the logic |
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| 11:05:40 | caspy7 | thanks for your help n1s, linuxstb and everybody else |
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| 11:14:39 | n1s | is there any reason to keep #if 0'ed code for dumping the fw partition around in the bootloader? |
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| 11:34:51 | markun | linuxstb: do you know much about the quicktime container and AAC codec? |
| 11:35:24 | linuxstb | No. But isn't quicktime the same (or very similar) to mp4? |
| 11:35:34 | markun | yes, that's what I mean |
| 11:35:57 | markun | (but it's sometimes called quicktime in the source) |
| 11:36:21 | | Quit bimbel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:36:25 | markun | I'll wait for Lear |
| 11:37:41 | markun | I think we could rename a few functions anyway. Some are caled alac_... and are used in the demuxer for both alac and aac. |
| 11:37:46 | linuxstb | Our "libm4a" was based on the ALAC decoder (I implemented ALAC in Rockbox first, then AAC was added), and then Lear did lots of work to improve it. |
| 11:38:24 | linuxstb | (IIRC...) |
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| 11:39:50 | markun | I made a change which made it play back one of the files I have, but the ones that don't play don't have the mdat atom at the end and there is a comment which tells me that rockbox doesn't support that. |
| 11:39:57 | markun | I just don't know how to fix it. |
| 11:40:28 | pewe_kodok | I get trouble installing rockbox on ipod video 5.5 |
| 11:41:11 | pewe_kodok | what i did convert FAT32 manually, using rbutil patch bootloader, and unzip rockbox manually |
| 11:41:34 | linuxstb | pewe_kodok: After you converted to FAT32, did the Apple firmware still work? |
| 11:41:46 | pewe_kodok | unzip to root dir, but when ipod restart "file not found" |
| 11:41:47 | n1s | linuxstb: posted a patch for the pp bootloader at FS #10018 if you are interested |
| 11:41:53 | pewe_kodok | yes it's work |
| 11:42:15 | linuxstb | pewe_kodok: What did you use to do the actual format? Did you specify 2048-byte sectors? |
| 11:42:19 | pewe_kodok | I can load apple firmware (hole menu button when restart) and play tunes |
| 11:42:43 | linuxstb | Do you have a ".rockbox" directory in the root of your ipod, and a "rockbox.ipod" file inside there? |
| 11:42:55 | pewe_kodok | I had "mkdosfs -F 32 -BS 2048 -n ipod /dev/sdb' at linux |
| 11:43:14 | linuxstb | pewe_kodok: I'm assuming that was OK, as the Apple firmware seems happy. |
| 11:44:21 | gevaerts | /dev/sdb? That looks wrong... |
| 11:44:32 | pewe_kodok | yes, I put H:\.rockbox and rockbox.ipod inside |
| 11:44:56 | pewe_kodok | oops sorry, incorrect typing |
| 11:45:03 | pewe_kodok | /dev/sdb2 |
| 11:45:16 | pewe_kodok | what to check next? |
| 11:45:49 | linuxstb | So you converted using Linux, and then installed manually (i.e. not using rbutil) in Windows? |
| 11:46:06 | pewe_kodok | use rbutil @ win |
| 11:46:26 | pewe_kodok | I used linux for dd & make FAT32 |
| 11:46:48 | pewe_kodok | couldn't figure out to patch bootloader manually |
| 11:47:18 | | Quit lightbulbjim (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:47:19 | pewe_kodok | Main firmware - 7561216 bytes |
| 11:47:20 | pewe_kodok | Third-party bootloader - 48024 bytes |
| 11:47:21 | linuxstb | Did you safely eject your ipod after running rbutil? |
| 11:47:48 | pewe_kodok | after running rbutil, unzip rockbox then eject |
| 11:48:16 | pewe_kodok | "safely remove" at right bottom cornet |
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| 11:48:36 | pewe_kodok | did I do something wrong? |
| 11:49:42 | pewe_kodok | btw where I can download rockbox boot loader? |
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| 12:00:48 | pewe_kodok | I will try this link http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod |
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| 12:12:40 | pewe_kodok1 | try ipodpatcher manually, no luck |
| 12:12:55 | pewe_kodok1 | any other suggestion what check |
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| 15:14:01 | zmyrgel | any suggestions what to do, when installing rb to my 5th gen iPod it gives "extracting failed: unable to create or open file.." |
| 15:14:46 | zmyrgel | it seems to switch the /mnt where I have mounted the ipod to read-only altough before the installer it was rw |
| 15:15:45 | gevaerts | Check the dmesg output. You probably have filesystem corruption |
| 15:17:38 | zmyrgel | it gives FAT: Filesystem panic" |
| 15:17:55 | zmyrgel | so I quess corruption is to be blamed |
| 15:18:03 | zmyrgel | any way to remedy that? |
| 15:18:27 | gevaerts | fsck.vfat should help |
| 15:19:20 | zmyrgel | I don't have that. Which package had that tool? |
| 15:19:27 | zmyrgel | msdosutils... or something? |
| 15:20:05 | zmyrgel | ah, found it. Was dosfstools |
| 15:23:30 | zmyrgel | umm, I ran fsck.vfat /dev/sdb2 and it lists errors and gives option: 1) Correct 2) Don't correct but when I give 1 and press enter it just states that "Leaving filesystem unchanged" |
| 15:25:27 | evilnick | zmyrgel: Maybe it's still read-only? |
| 15:26:01 | zmyrgel | I umounted it for the check |
| 15:27:20 | gevaerts | zmyrgel: I've seen that as well. If you run it with -a it corrects everyting automatically. Of course, if you're not sure that may not be the best thing to do. Do you have backups of everything on the ipod? |
| 15:28:12 | zmyrgel | well, everything except apple firmware |
| 15:28:42 | gevaerts | ok. You can restore that from other sources, and it's not on this filesystem anyway, so I'd say go ahead |
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| 15:33:53 | zmyrgel | ok, now it seems to work |
| 15:34:49 | zmyrgel | If I get this to work and it feels good to use I could convert my music collection to ogg |
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| 15:45:01 | kugel | lucent: hi |
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| 16:08:36 | PaulJam | rasher: is FS #10016 really a bug? i thought this was by design to entirely skip the v1 tag if a v2 tag is found in order to have less disk activity because the v1 tag is at the end of the file. |
| 16:15:53 | kugel | PaulJam: the logs of yesterday, there was a long discussion |
| 16:16:18 | kugel | IMO whether this is a bug or not, id3v1 should be deprecated entirely |
| 16:17:08 | PaulJam | kugel: thanks, ill have a look later. |
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| 16:22:51 | BigBambi | Saying we should get rid of ID3 v1 entirely is silly IMO |
| 16:24:20 | BigBambi | They are valid, and I would bet that there are some apps still using them. I don't think we ought to force the user through unnecessary hoops to use Rockbox just because v1 are a bit annoying |
| 16:27:38 | B4gder | LyrePlayer ? TargetLyre? what's a good wiki name? |
| 16:28:08 | Llorean | OpenPlayerLyre? |
| 16:28:19 | Llorean | I like the idea of having some sort of standard prefix for future hardware projects. |
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| 16:57:53 | toffe82 | isn't there a rca player called lira ? lyre is a little close to this no ? |
| 16:58:34 | kugel | I don't think so |
| 16:58:52 | kugel | but you never know what those lawyers say |
| 16:59:51 | toffe82 | http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/rca-lyra-m100512-512mb/4505-6490_7-31763666.html |
| 17:00 |
| 17:02:43 | LambdaCalculus37 | I would think that it's pretty hard to confuse "Lyra" with "Lyre". |
| 17:03:16 | toffe82 | I think it is too close |
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| 17:03:23 | * | evilnick wonders if there's any irony in the name being pronounced "Liar"! |
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| 17:06:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | evilnick: The irony runneth over. :) |
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| 17:07:08 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: well, he said lira, not lyra, in the first place |
| 17:07:17 | kugel | lyra and lyre is a bit confusing, indeed |
| 17:07:37 | kugel | evilnick: thanks! I already wondered how to pronounce it |
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| 17:13:26 | Llorean | toffe82: There are MP3 players by two different companies named "Rockbox" and "Rocbox", I think "Lyra" and "Lyre" are about equally close. Does RCA even sell the Lyra any more? |
| 17:14:23 | toffe82 | I don't think so |
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| 17:21:50 | rasher | midgey (for the logs): Did genlang (-u) become far slower? Not that it's a problem, just curious. |
| 17:22:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | toffe82: I think the Lyra's long been discontinued by RCA. |
| 17:32:53 | scorche|sh | B4gder: just to more-than-double check, we are all good for the org app deadline to come now, yes? =P |
| 17:33:39 | B4gder | yes, things are fine |
| 17:33:58 | scorche|sh | ok |
| 17:34:23 | scorche|sh | (that said, people can still have a look at the ideas list and improve where they can see something needed) *hope* |
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| 17:41:18 | kugel | lucent: I'd like to hear your opinion on the new wheel acceleration for the fuze (/me will read the irc logs) |
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| 18:53:29 | bertrik | I have a couple of questions about gsoc 2009 |
| 18:53:57 | bertrik | If I propose a project for rockbox gsoc 2009, does it also mean I have to mentor it? |
| 18:55:03 | JdGordon__ | no |
| 18:55:27 | bertrik | Who gets to choose the projects to implement? Does google choose a project based on the description, or do we get a couple of students assigned that we (rockbox) can find a fitting project for? |
| 18:55:54 | * | JdGordon__ buzzes scorche to answer coz im heading out |
| 18:57:03 | Llorean | bertrik: Students say "I'm interested in Project X" and write a proposal and try to convince us they're a good student. |
| 18:57:28 | Llorean | We rate student/project pairs in order of preference to us. Google then decides how many students we get, and we basically get our top X projects. |
| 18:57:29 | Bagder | and that the project is cool |
| 18:58:39 | bertrik | Llorean, thanks |
| 18:58:39 | Llorean | Yes. Students may even propose their own projects not on the list. |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:13:26 | Horscht | damn, i wish there was a tool which would write the rockbox tagcache while being connected to the PC... |
| 19:16:31 | rasher | Horscht: There is! |
| 19:16:44 | Horscht | what is it called? |
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| 19:16:53 | Horscht | when did that happen? |
| 19:17:03 | rasher | Horscht: cd tools/database; make |
| 19:17:10 | rasher | It's been there for a long time |
| 19:17:14 | rasher | But often not working |
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| 19:17:31 | Horscht | well, that's bad if it often isn't working, isn't it? |
| 19:18:01 | Horscht | but that reminds me |
| 19:18:17 | rasher | Not working in the sense that it stops compiling |
| 19:18:20 | Horscht | I still have to get a build environment up and running in Virtualbox |
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| 19:41:10 | Kohlrabi | disconnect mercury |
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| 19:41:17 | Kohlrabi | sorry |
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| 19:48:39 | saratoga | \join rockbox-community |
| 19:49:08 | * | gevaerts explains the difference between slashes and backslashes to saratoga :) |
| 19:49:13 | * | Horscht gives saratoga a / |
| 19:49:48 | saratoga | it wouldn't have helped there was also a space before the slash |
| 19:50:14 | Horscht | not here it wasnt |
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| 20:03:14 | orsonj | My little Indy finally learned to crawl _forward_ last night. |
| 20:04:59 | Horscht | meh, crap. ftp.gnu.org seems down... |
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| 20:05:25 | LambdaCalculus37 | orsonj: What does that have to do with Rockbox? |
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| 20:05:45 | orsonj | sorry, wrong channel |
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| 20:31:41 | amiconn | Unhelpful: ping |
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| 21:07:36 | evilnick | Just a thought; if the beast bootloader has been changed (the UDMA work) should the .bin file on the Wiki be updated too? |
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| 21:20:51 | Jrockz | hey everyone....could use some help if available |
| 21:21:52 | evilnick | Jrockz: What's the question? |
| 21:22:17 | linuxstb | evilnick: No, bootloader binaries shouldn't be in the wiki, they should be on the download server (or maybe flyspray if they're for testing)... |
| 21:24:35 | evilnick | linuxstb: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSInstallation lists a binary. I assume that this is because the beast is not yet supported? |
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| 21:26:28 | linuxstb | evilnick: It's one of the reasons it's not yet supported - no-one has made an official bootloader binary and put it on the download server. |
| 21:28:14 | evilnick | Gotchya |
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| 21:38:14 | Jrockz | evil nick - I installed rockbox on my sansa c250 but after i installed it the rockbox logo hangs on the screen and i can't do anything...what am i doing wrong? |
| 21:38:56 | linuxstb | Does the logo just stay there, or does Rockbox repeatedly reboot, showing the logo each time? |
| 21:38:58 | evilnick | Jrockz: Sorry, I don't own that player, what does the bootloader text say though? (should be white text on a black background) |
| 21:40:40 | Jrockz | it's pretty much the sansa screen and then it switches to rockbox...then it hangs from there |
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| 21:41:24 | linuxstb | Is there any text on the screen, or just the Rockbox logo? |
| 21:41:35 | evilnick | Jrockz: You should try to be as precise as possible so that we can help. Can you tell us exactly what happens from when you switch the player on? |
| 21:42:52 | Jrockz | ok.. |
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| 21:43:41 | Jrockz | give me a sec...i will check again |
| 21:45:45 | Jrockz | I turn it on and it shows the sansa screen for about a sec...then it switches to the rockbox logo and it shows the version on the bottom...that's where it hangs....i cannot do anything at this point |
| 21:47:06 | linuxstb | What's the exact text at the bottom? |
| 21:48:51 | Jrockz | ver. r20321-090313 |
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| 21:49:49 | linuxstb | OK, so you've (sort-of) successfully installed the bootloader and Rockbox itself. The first thing I would do would be to check the disk in your sansa for errors (e.g. using chkdsk) |
| 21:51:55 | Jrockz | ok, i did that and it found no problems |
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| 22:00 |
| 22:00:43 | linuxstb | Jrockz: Then I'm out of ideas. That's definitely not how Rockbox normally behaves.... You could try installing an older version of Rockbox - e.g. the 3.1 release. |
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| 22:04:44 | pixelma | hmm, are the tts engines not clever enough to pronounce bigger numbers correctly? I saw fml's commit and noticed that he spelled out the 38400 for the voice string and now asking myself if that's the safer route to go for other languages as well... |
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| 22:07:03 | pixelma | I mean "spelled out" as in writing: thirty eight thousand four hundred |
| 22:07:41 | amiconn | All the sapi5 engines I have don't need that |
| 22:08:02 | archivator | pixelma: depends on which engine you're using. Some can parse numbers, others can't. My biggest pain is 01 - it's *always* zero one and not just one. |
| 22:08:38 | | Quit Lss (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:09:15 | amiconn | Well, I'd expect a leading zero to make a tts switch to single digits instead of numbers |
| 22:09:25 | amiconn | Why else would you write it that way? |
| 22:09:32 | Llorean | I have to agree with amiconn there. |
| 22:09:34 | linuxstb | So it will sort correctly ;) |
| 22:09:39 | Llorean | If there's a zero, don't assume it's a mistake. |
| 22:10:04 | archivator | Well, in my case it's a file name, so linuxstb is correct -sorting is my primary concern. |
| 22:10:45 | linuxstb | archivator: But you don't need that any more with Rockbox. |
| 22:10:55 | pixelma | to be more accurate, he didn't add it this way just corrected the spelling |
| 22:11:05 | archivator | linuxstb: I still need it with my PC :) |
| 22:16:06 | | Quit __lifeless (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) |
| 22:17:58 | pixelma | I guess it's not that important as "generated" numbers, e.g. if you let it announce free disk space in the info screen can give a different result anyways... |
| 22:19:13 | * | pixelma just looked at the "new" time-and-date screen for the first time on the c200 and it looks... wasteful :\\ |
| 22:22:52 | pixelma | why does it need a blank line above and below the current time and date field? It leaves only two lines for the menu items (with my user font which is ten I get the menu title - and with an 11 pixels tall one as the default is, it drops the title...) |
| 22:23:55 | * | bertrik agrees with pixelma |
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| 22:24:16 | pixelma | how does it look on the clip? |
| 22:24:24 | | Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:24:29 | pixelma | or e.g. an Archos Recorder |
| 22:25:13 | bertrik | the time and date screen on the clip looks basically the same as c200 |
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| 22:25:45 | pixelma | ok, you'll be using a smaller font |
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| 22:31:59 | bluebrother | pixelma: I'd prefer a standard menu with maybe a "show time" entry too |
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| 22:51:53 | amiconn | pixelma: The generated numbers aren't composed by the tts engine, but by rockbox |
| 22:52:03 | eusse | hi everyone |
| 22:52:15 | pixelma | amiconn: sure, I know |
| 22:53:19 | amiconn | Unfortunately the rules are hardcoded to English. Back in SH1-only times I had the idea to plug a language specific number composition function into the voice file, but that wouldn't have been trivial even back then, and is even more difficult today with 4 architecures |
| 22:53:21 | bertrik | hi eusse |
| 22:53:30 | * | Bagder is glad to see we have 25 build servers serving us now |
| 22:53:35 | eusse | I'd like to know the latest news about Sansa Connect |
| 22:53:53 | bluebrother | The news is: there are no news |
| 22:54:11 | eusse | ok |
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| 22:54:26 | amiconn | There are 3 major problems: (1) the function would need to be 100% position independent code, because the voice file can be loaded anywhere. |
| 22:54:38 | midgey | rasher: how much slower? |
| 22:55:10 | amiconn | (2) Depending on the language, additional clips might be necessary. Where would the go, and what ID should they get? |
| 22:55:29 | amiconn | (3) Swcodec sims have voice, and they can't execute target CPU code. |
| 22:55:46 | eusse | what's the first job about this sansa connect |
| 22:56:01 | gevaerts | amiconn: maybe an extra type of "plugin" buffer? |
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| 22:56:30 | amiconn | That would solve (1), but that's the easiest of the 3 anyway... |
| 22:57:11 | gevaerts | It should also (make it possible to) solve (3), but that's probably the least important one |
| 22:58:08 | amiconn | You mean that it would be a special type of plugin as a separate file, i.e. not part of the voice file? |
| 22:58:35 | gevaerts | yes |
| 22:58:58 | amiconn | That would rise the question how to store the various language specific versions |
| 22:59:14 | amiconn | I wouldn't want to add 25+ extra files just for that |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:31 | amiconn | Hmm, actually they could be put into a single file. Simplest method - just concatenated. Might be a little difficult to handle in the loader though |
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| 23:02:01 | amiconn | That still leaves (2). Maybe it can be solved with the plugin localisation/ voice framework |
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| 23:02:51 | gevaerts | You'd want this voice-plugin buffer to be adjacent to the audio buffer so you can reuse it if voice is disabled I guess |
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| 23:18:19 | rasher | midgey: 2-3 times slower (guessing from how long my web page takes to update all languages. Maybe the server just got more busy) |
| 23:18:52 | midgey | hmm, well it might be slower do to check the user tag. it accesses a hashmap for each phrase |
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| 23:19:02 | midgey | but 2-3 times seems a bit much |
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| 23:26:03 | FlynDice | anyone got an idea on bnv in arm assembly? Branch on null value? |
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| 23:32:51 | | Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
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| 23:38:44 | linuxstb | FlynDice: afaik that doesn't exist... What ARM CPU is that for? |
| 23:38:53 | amiconn | FlynDice: That doesn't exist. Check the opcode what it actually is |
| 23:39:12 | FlynDice | ok e200v2 disassm... |
| 23:39:22 | linuxstb | disassembled with what? |
| 23:39:47 | FlynDice | the tool that's included w/rockbox |
| 23:40:15 | linuxstb | Don't trust that - see what arm-elf-objdump gives |
| 23:41:21 | FlynDice | been crosschecking both but the objdump isn't helping as much. Is it usually better? |
| 23:42:01 | amiconn | Looks like the arm disassembler idsassembles a condition field of 0b1111 ("never" == "nv" for really old arm) as that |
| 23:42:36 | rasher | Could just be a typo? b and n are next to eachother |
| 23:42:38 | amiconn | But the more recent arm versions redefied those opcodes to mean something entirely different |
| 23:42:39 | linuxstb | The e200v2 firmware is a mixture of arm and thumb code - are you sure this isn't thumb you're looking at? |
| 23:42:54 | | Quit synergist ("changing servers") |
| 23:43:03 | linuxstb | (the Rockbox disassembler only supports ARM afaik) |
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| 23:43:07 | amiconn | rasher: utils/disassembler/arm/disasm_arm.c line 15ff |
| 23:43:47 | rasher | Line what? |
| 23:44:04 | linuxstb | 15 onwards |
| 23:44:08 | amiconn | 15 and following |
| 23:44:19 | amiconn | Hmm. "In ARMv4, any instruction with a condition field of 0b1111 is UNPREDICTABLE" |
| 23:44:31 | amiconn | ARMv5 and above actually put something there |
| 23:44:48 | linuxstb | And what's AMS? Just v4? |
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| 23:45:04 | amiconn | yes |
| 23:45:07 | FlynDice | here's a line " 2520:faa2f000 bnv0xfe8be528" v4 I think |
| 23:45:26 | linuxstb | That just looks like a constant |
| 23:46:54 | amiconn | It seems to disassemble data. Btw, objdump does the same, just that it knows 'nv' is invalid for armv4, and it will output .word 0xnnnnnnn in such a case |
| 23:47:51 | FlynDice | ok thanks, I think I've found most of the mmu code with the dissassembly. The obj dump completely obscured it. |
| 23:49:09 | | Part eusse |
| 23:50:01 | Horscht | what package from ubuntu intrepid am I missing: /home/sascha/rockbox/apps/action.c:26:18: error: lang.h: No such file or directory |
| 23:50:12 | Horscht | that's the error i get when trying to compile (make) |
| 23:51:38 | rasher | Is this clean Rockbox sources? |
| 23:52:22 | Horscht | yes |
| 23:52:41 | gevaerts | clean build directory? |
| 23:52:42 | rasher | Make clean and reconfigure.. |
| 23:53:02 | gevaerts | make clean, check if there's nothing unexpected left, then reconfigure |
| 23:53:15 | Bagder | and see that perl is installed |
| 23:56:40 | Horscht | ok, not sure why id didn't work the first time around, now it seems to work |
| 23:57:12 | Horscht | removed build dir completely |
| 23:58:21 | gevaerts | A few days (weeks?) ago there was a change that moved some files around, and it made make clean not clean everything properly if cleaning an older build with a newer revision |
| 23:58:55 | Horscht | well, funny thing is, I got the error the first time around. |
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