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| 00:07:25 | scorche | Bagder: front page? |
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| 00:47:23 | webguest80 | has anyone ever heard of dasher? http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ |
| 00:48:13 | Llorean | webguest80: It's been brought up before, yes. |
| 00:48:13 | gevaerts | yes |
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| 00:49:52 | webguest80 | I've found the rockbox keyboard a little difficult, but I guess the fact that Dasher is in C++ would mean even a simple proof of concept implementation would be alot of effort. There's alot of source code... |
| 00:50:59 | gevaerts | it would be a lot of work, yes. I'd like to see it done, but I'm very unlikely to work on it myself |
| 00:51:24 | webguest80 | perhaps GSoC 2050 |
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| 00:58:17 | rasher | using dasher with a wheel might not be awful |
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| 01:03:47 | webguest80 | I've just tried their java applet. Its fun but slow. |
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| 01:23:56 | Unhelpful | amiconn: i think fdiv could possibly benefit from some asm as well, at least on arm, where there are no division support instructions, because we could shift the output directly instead of having to calculate shifts for the operands... |
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| 01:41:13 | JdGordon| | pixelma: still around? |
| 01:42:21 | JdGordon| | do any of the stock themes for the recorder have the next track info displayed? |
| 01:46:00 | JdGordon| | kugel: you wanted to bug me about the wps yesterday? |
| 01:46:26 | scorche | JdGordon|: doubt it...not many archos themes have the next track info due to the small playback buffer....you wouldnt get the next track info till likely near the end of the song |
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| 01:47:04 | JdGordon| | yeah, fair enough.. ill have to hack one together i guess |
| 01:47:42 | * | scorche uses http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsArchos?rev=17#JensArnold |
| 01:48:20 | JdGordon| | does the rec wps change to display the next tracks "anything" as soon as you press the button.. or nothing changes untill the track starts playing? |
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| 01:57:07 | cmwslw | the first two annotations I've been working on can be viewed here: http://nxtpp.clustur.com/index.php/Special:ImageList |
| 01:57:43 | cmwslw | they are the first four files |
| 01:59:25 | | Quit lucent (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:59:44 | Llorean | JdGordon|: I'm almost positive he needs to GPL it as long as they're "in" the exe, even if it extracts them, runs them, then deletes the temporary copy. It's still "effectively" one program |
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| 02:00 |
| 02:00:34 | JdGordon| | oh, righto |
| 02:01:07 | Llorean | But I'm not absolutely positive. |
| 02:01:25 | rasher | Llorean: I think he might be treading the thin line of "mere aggregation", but I'm no lawyer |
| 02:01:51 | JdGordon| | i misunderstood... i thought he meant the installer or whatever had both exes seperately |
| 02:02:12 | Llorean | rasher: I think "including them with it, in a .zip" would be fine, but "including them in the program, extracting them from yourself, executing them, then deleting the temporary copy" seems a lot harder to talk about |
| 02:02:54 | Llorean | I guess the simplest question would be - if a program is GPLed does that apply to its artwork too? |
| 02:03:00 | Llorean | Assuming they're embedded. |
| 02:03:06 | rasher | Its artwork? |
| 02:03:12 | Llorean | It's a similar case, but more common. |
| 02:03:14 | Llorean | Embedded other files |
| 02:03:22 | rasher | Ah, that kind of artwork |
| 02:03:29 | Llorean | Yeah |
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| 02:04:25 | rasher | But that's not exactly the same situation |
| 02:04:49 | rasher | Closer would be "if a program displays GPLed artwork, does the program need to be GPL as well?" |
| 02:04:57 | Llorean | Not really |
| 02:05:06 | Llorean | You can display GPLed artwork without it being part of the binary |
| 02:05:13 | rasher | Right, |
| 02:05:15 | JdGordon| | how do people feel about making hwcodec similar to swcodec re next track info... where it will grab the id3struct from the first unbuffered track and hold that in ram so it can be displayed (which bassically means the hwcodec would always have the next track in ram) |
| 02:05:18 | rasher | Right, *as part of the main binary* |
| 02:05:24 | Llorean | In this case, the GPLed binary is *part* of the non-GPL binary. It copies the file out of itself, runs that copy, then deletes it. |
| 02:05:58 | Llorean | The GPL site says if they're "effectively" one program, they're linked, so I think this qualifies as "effectively" |
| 02:06:08 | rasher | Yes, that's what I was going to say |
| 02:06:39 | Llorean | JdGordon|: I think it'd be nice, but I don't have a feel for how large that struct can be. |
| 02:06:43 | Llorean | / is |
| 02:07:30 | JdGordon| | I'm not sure.. its not tiny, but not big iirc |
| 02:07:55 | Llorean | I just know they already have so much less RAM than they did before, they probably don't care about next track too much with how small the screen is anyway |
| 02:08:32 | JdGordon| | in that case, is it worth my time trying to fix a hwcodec only bug which 9795 introduces which affects showing the next track info only |
| 02:08:42 | Llorean | What's the bug? |
| 02:09:41 | JdGordon| | it doesnt ever display the next info, except when the seek button is held down (if its loaded at that time)! |
| 02:10:00 | JdGordon| | its a pretty wierd bug :p |
| 02:10:04 | Llorean | Sounds like it |
| 02:11:04 | Llorean | I'd say it needs fixed, over all. But I don't think anyone would blame you if you don't spend a lot of time trying to fix a bug that's basically harmless and weird anyway. |
| 02:11:18 | Llorean | Do you have a HWCodec to test on? |
| 02:12:04 | JdGordon| | yes! I finally have a hwcodec.... and no, i know ill get my head cut off if i tried commiting this with that bug without permission first :p |
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| 02:12:57 | JdGordon| | hmm... I have no idea why this is hwcodec only... its looking more like a wps bug than playback |
| 02:12:59 | Llorean | Oh, I thought this was a bug that had been added after committing something. Didn't realize the task wasn't in yuet |
| 02:13:01 | * | JdGordon| confused |
| 02:13:03 | Llorean | Yeah, don't commit a known bug. :-P |
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| 02:16:28 | kugel | JdGordon|: not really, I just find the whole code in that area totally confusing |
| 02:17:08 | JdGordon| | oijn the club |
| 02:17:12 | JdGordon| | join even |
| 02:19:10 | webguest84 | Hi Everyone |
| 02:19:44 | webguest84 | Im new to rockbox and would like some dirrection |
| 02:20:23 | * | scorche recommends the fine manual |
| 02:20:35 | webguest84 | I'm currently trying to control my iriver h10 via serial |
| 02:20:57 | webguest84 | im a bit beyond that point |
| 02:22:59 | pixelma | JdGordon|: I'm sure "iCatcher" shows next track info on Archos. It's a bit hackish forcing a refresh with a subline but works reliably with that... Ah, and now I remember "boxes" has too where it's also done with sublines but different ones (it gave me the idea) |
| 02:23:34 | JdGordon| | ok, i made one which shows the next tracks always which im testing |
| 02:23:38 | JdGordon| | this is a bloody wierd bug! |
| 02:23:48 | * | JdGordon| is glad to finally be able to debug it himself though |
| 02:23:59 | webguest84 | i already have my a build environment setup and working |
| 02:25:07 | Unhelpful | pixelma: get anywhere with ondio pf keymaps? ;) |
| 02:26:01 | pixelma | yesterday I was about to put a new pf on my Ondio and then you posted a new patch... |
| 02:26:08 | webguest84 | can anyone point me to documentation or smthn... |
| 02:27:08 | webguest84 | i already saw the links for hardware remotes...they are a bit dated and does not involve the usb_serial driver |
| 02:27:59 | Llorean | webguest84: Please try to use real English words where at all possible in here. That means avoiding things like "smthn" |
| 02:28:16 | webguest84 | sorry about that |
| 02:28:26 | cmwslw | wat r u tlkin abt? |
| 02:28:30 | cmwslw | haha |
| 02:29:17 | Unhelpful | pixelma: that one covers the case i suggested, where pretty much every possible button is select. it wouldn't be hard to test menu-on-menu-button with it, just remove the bindings for the menu button on ondio, and it'll unmask the standard binding of long-press-menu to ACTION_STD_MENU |
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| 02:31:27 | Llorean | cmwslw: I'm not joking. |
| 02:31:42 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:31:56 | Llorean | This should be explained in the guidelines link in the topic. |
| 02:32:13 | webguest84 | LLorean:Have any thoughts on the my usb serial issues |
| 02:32:47 | Llorean | webguest84: Not a clue, never used it. Watch for gevaerts to be active, he's *probably* your best bet in general |
| 02:32:48 | webguest84 | LLorean: I saw the guides but bad habbits are hard to break |
| 02:33:10 | webguest84 | sorry again |
| 02:33:35 | webguest84 | Llorean: thanks |
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| 03:56:48 | saratoga | MT: pong |
| 03:57:31 | bubsy | saratoga: ping |
| 03:57:42 | saratoga | I'm here |
| 04:00 |
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| 04:07:47 | saratoga | MT: I very quickly skimmed cook.c, I'm not familar with the format, but it looks like a fairly typical transform codec |
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| 04:09:36 | saratoga | it makes extensive use of floating point math, but is well documented and the codec appears cleanly written, with a few functions I recognize from our wma codec preserved in it |
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| 04:10:03 | saratoga | i think converting this to fixed point will be quite difficult, and will likely occupy most of your time |
| 04:10:49 | saratoga | but converting it to fixed point is still a good goal, and it helps to be ambitious |
| 04:11:01 | Adola | Hello! Please forgive this question, but, I'm on dial-up, and really don't want to wait around.........Is rockbox compatible with a Nano 2nd Gen? |
| 04:11:27 | scorche | no |
| 04:12:06 | Adola | scorche: That's directed to me yes? |
| 04:12:13 | scorche | yes |
| 04:12:47 | * | Adola sighs. |
| 04:13:10 | Adola | ipodforlinux, rockbox. Is there anything I can throw on there? |
| 04:13:33 | scorche | no...and this channel is only about rockbox.. |
| 04:15:34 | saratoga | MT: i think I would first work out how to accurately decode the format on your PC in integer precision |
| 04:17:37 | saratoga | many of the functions you need are available in rockbox already in the WMA codec [ff_imdct_calc, get_vlc2], and you can reuse fixed point functions for multiplication, division, cos from that codec as well |
| 04:18:25 | saratoga | but i think it will take you a while to get familar with fixed point, then to convert the code, and finally to track done arithmatic bugs in your fixed point changes |
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| 05:00:54 | JdGordon | anyone awake? please test FS #9795 |
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| 05:10:00 | kugel | JdGordon: not sure if I'm awake |
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| 05:17:16 | tmzt | hi, anyone who can tell me why the release 3.1 e200 build would boot to OF when plugging usb? |
| 05:18:36 | scorche | because rockbox did not have the USB stack completely working in that version, so it needed to use the OF for USB functionality |
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| 05:23:41 | tmzt | scorche: which version has it, only unofficial? I thought it was released |
| 05:23:56 | saratoga | 3.1 is an old release |
| 05:23:57 | scorche | the current build has it enabled |
| 05:24:07 | saratoga | if you want USB, use a build from the last couple weeks |
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| 05:25:41 | tmzt | ok |
| 05:28:11 | lostlogic | JdGordon: patch looks sane to me. glad someone fixed that has track changed bs! |
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| 05:29:49 | JdGordon | lostlogic: :) how long was that there for? |
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| 05:31:06 | lostlogic | before i started. |
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| 05:46:01 | Gentoon | I am the one trying to get usb to work in latest e200 |
| 05:46:06 | Gentoon | Are we sure it has usb? |
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| 05:46:25 | Unhelpful | it does, which build are you using? |
| 05:46:27 | tmzt | Gentoon: you have todays build then |
| 05:46:41 | Gentoon | should be version r20351-090318 right? |
| 05:47:51 | Gentoon | I replaced .rockbox with the one from the todays build .zip well the current .zip anyways |
| 05:48:26 | Gentoon | Oh there is a difference between current build and todays build |
| 05:48:33 | Gentoon | lemme try todays build then |
| 05:48:54 | Gentoon | Here we go |
| 05:49:00 | Gentoon | A usb symbol |
| 05:49:05 | Unhelpful | Gentoon: "current" should be newer than "daily". |
| 05:49:29 | Gentoon | Well daily worked and current rebooted to sansa fw |
| 05:49:41 | Unhelpful | current builds are rebuilt whenever somebody makes a commit to our subversion repository, daily are built once a day |
| 05:49:45 | tmzt | same revision? |
| 05:50:14 | Gentoon | well maybe it didnt work I only see device memory not the card |
| 05:50:44 | tmzt | were you holding left arrow on the current build when you plugged in usb? |
| 05:50:50 | Gentoon | Nope |
| 05:51:00 | Gentoon | but nvm it just popped up we are good to go |
| 05:51:30 | Gentoon | Thanks everyone for your help and development, keep up the good work.. Maybe get something that will run on my phillips go geap :p |
| 05:51:38 | Unhelpful | for what it's worth, i see nothing in the commit log about disabling USB... |
| 05:51:55 | Gentoon | *gogear |
| 05:52:44 | Gentoon | Are there any plans to support phillips devices anytime soon? |
| 05:53:07 | Unhelpful | ports are not planned. they are done when somebody with the device does the work. |
| 05:53:35 | Gentoon | Like writting drivers? |
| 05:54:41 | Unhelpful | that said, it looks like there are two in-progress phillips device ports in subversion. you might want to check our wiki or the new ports forum to see what state they're in. |
| 05:58:09 | Gentoon | sweet I hope they are for the 8GB I can help out for testing... I will check out the forums later when i am not busy with this thing. |
| 05:59:14 | Gentoon | Thanks again. |
| 06:00 |
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| 06:27:38 | perrikwp | JdGordon: Using your patch I get codec failures on some of my tracks, but the songs play anyways |
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| 06:40:22 | kugel | Unhelpful: hey! could you investigate another weird binsize delta? :) |
| 06:41:20 | kugel | the -644 one for the clip, you can still see it in the binsize table |
| 06:42:13 | kugel | JdGordon: does your patch intentional include empty whitespace lines?? |
| 06:42:50 | Unhelpful | can you? i don't see it :/ |
| 06:43:04 | kugel | I see it |
| 06:43:20 | Unhelpful | wait, do you mean fuze? |
| 06:43:22 | kugel | err, fuze I mean |
| 06:43:46 | kugel | Unhelpful: uhm, nevermind |
| 06:44:18 | kugel | it's not weird if it's for the fuze. I was sure it was the clip though :S |
| 06:44:30 | kugel | night all |
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| 07:00 |
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| 07:56:18 | wenjie | hi ,everyone rockbox partipates the gsoc again |
| 07:57:55 | scorche | yup |
| 07:58:26 | wenjie | i am a mewbie to rockbox, and i am instesting in the Rockbox As An Application Project |
| 07:58:34 | Topic | "Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | 3.2 is branched for release candidates. | Rockbox has been accepted to participate in GSoC2009!" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 07:59:13 | wenjie | if rockbox are ported to openmoko it will be exciting |
| 08:00 |
| 08:08:38 | Gentoon | People still develop openmoko? |
| 08:14:01 | wenjie | yes,there are lots of releases for openmoko,like SHR,Gentoo for openmoko ,and debian |
| 08:16:05 | wenjie | the openmoke develope a framework named FSO, i think porting the rockbox to it is a good start |
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| 08:18:45 | wenjie | it seems like that the Rockbox As An Application Project is a project in gsoc 2008, is it ongoing now? |
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| 09:00 |
| 09:02:29 | MT | saratoga : then to know this, I'd have to learn about variable length coding, sub-band coding and the such ? |
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| 09:04:19 | MT | saratoga : and how long would be a reasonable period to make the conversion ? I gave it 1 week in the application but it seems that it needs much more than that. |
| 09:07:55 | MT | saratoga : sorry, I hadn't seen your full reply when I asked the second question, I just saw the ones you highlighted me in. |
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| 09:30:01 | bluefoxx | So whats happened to the old way of flashing the bootloader on the e200 series? |
| 09:30:16 | | Join zwj [0] (n=zwjsq@124.161.67.136) |
| 09:31:05 | bluefoxx | I don't particularily want to go and install a half dozen .net frameworks, reboot and install some program I'll use once just to load rockbox on one, so am I OK to still use the old way of doing things with 3.1 or what? |
| 09:31:11 | B4gder | we ditched it in favour of nice tools |
| 09:31:20 | B4gder | .net? |
| 09:31:22 | bluefoxx | I don't need nice fancy UIs |
| 09:31:51 | bluefoxx | last time i tried anything other than the sansapatcher for rockbox it demanded .net things that clutter up my hard disk space |
| 09:31:53 | B4gder | so what is "the old way" in your view? |
| 09:32:02 | B4gder | bluefoxx: no it didn't |
| 09:32:07 | B4gder | and sansapatcher still works |
| 09:32:26 | bluefoxx | running sansapatcher.exe with the player in MSC mode |
| 09:32:35 | bluefoxx | Is what I prefer |
| 09:32:41 | B4gder | then do that |
| 09:32:51 | bluefoxx | My copy is about a year out of date |
| 09:33:20 | bluefoxx | Can I get a link? |
| 09:33:32 | bluefoxx | Haven't been able to find it on the site, been crawling over it... |
| 09:34:07 | | Quit wenjie (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
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| 09:34:28 | B4gder | http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/ |
| 09:34:33 | bluefoxx | thank you |
| 09:34:47 | B4gder | although one of the download mirrors seems to be stupid atm |
| 09:34:59 | bluefoxx | err, i'v ebeen digging through there before, is it any particular one? |
| 09:35:08 | bluefoxx | there seems to be several directories... |
| 09:35:20 | B4gder | and one is called... sansapatcher |
| 09:35:27 | bluefoxx | i just need it for a standard e260 that has the default FW crashing... |
| 09:35:50 | bluefoxx | ah, yes, found it |
| 09:35:52 | bluefoxx | thank you |
| 09:38:31 | bluefoxx | huh, it seems to work well enough |
| 09:38:39 | bluefoxx | I'm impressed, rockbox has come a long way... |
| 09:39:57 | bluefoxx | hmm |
| 09:39:58 | | Quit bluefoxx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:40:31 | bluefoxx | its impressed me enough that i'm going to be compiling a build thats similar enough to the one i currently use that i can tolerate it... |
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| 09:56:24 | bluefoxx | Dyeh! |
| 09:56:29 | bluefoxx | ugh, no thats not right. |
| 09:57:50 | bluefoxx | Is there any way at all, that when a Sansa using the newest build is plugged in from being powered off, it boots rockbox instead of going into the stock firmware, which on this particular sansa, is crashing and leaving a nice screen of green lines.. |
| 09:58:28 | bluefoxx | its the entire reason that i stuck rockbox on this person's sansa, its sort of a last resort for them, but if its still crashing when they plug it in... |
| 09:58:32 | | Quit zwj (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:58:41 | bluefoxx | than it kind of defeats the purpose.... |
| 09:59:38 | markun | bluefoxx: I hope someone with more sansa knowledge than me can help you.. |
| 09:59:45 | bluefoxx | yea... |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:37 | bluefoxx | i have my own e270/60 thing, it runs a old version of kugel build, only version that had the keyboard nav the way i liked it and all the buttons and menus the way i wanted... |
| 10:02:27 | bluefoxx | if i can compile my own build, i'll definately upgrade, i'm rather impressed by the latest version other tahn that one bootloader flaw.... |
| 10:03:35 | B4gder | you need a rockboxusb-enabled bootloader I think |
| 10:03:57 | bluefoxx | yes, but in the sansapatcher.exe or even a linux variety... |
| 10:04:14 | BigBambi | There are new bootloaders in a flyspray task that do just this |
| 10:04:28 | BigBambi | And you can use the existing sansapatcher to install them |
| 10:04:37 | bluefoxx | oh? |
| 10:05:11 | BigBambi | yes |
| 10:05:32 | bluefoxx | i'm somewhat rather new to compiling bits of rockbox myself |
| 10:05:46 | B4gder | no need to build yourself |
| 10:05:59 | BigBambi | You don't need to |
| 10:05:59 | BigBambi | Read what I just wrote |
| 10:06:34 | bluefoxx | i did, it confused me, as all i've done before is installed it, and managed to hack a few old WPS files, and some custom menus |
| 10:06:56 | bluefoxx | thats all the more i've toyed with some of this... |
| 10:07:05 | BigBambi | [10:06:07] <BigBambi> There are new bootloaders in a flyspray task that do just this |
| 10:07:07 | BigBambi | [10:06:07] <BigBambi> There are new bootloaders in a flyspray task that do just this |
| 10:07:13 | bluefoxx | yes |
| 10:07:17 | bluefoxx | ph |
| 10:07:19 | bluefoxx | oh* |
| 10:07:21 | BigBambi | oops, sorry for the double paste |
| 10:07:23 | bluefoxx | i misread that |
| 10:07:27 | bluefoxx | sorry, my mistake |
| 10:07:53 | bluefoxx | 'ts what i get for being up doing this at 2 AM after two days on 5 minutes rest and running all over the city... |
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| 10:09:40 | BigBambi | bluefoxx: I don't know the task number off the top of my head I'm afraid, but it should be easy to search for |
| 10:09:51 | bluefoxx | hmm |
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| 10:25:24 | B4gder | $buildservers++ |
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| 10:56:06 | B4gder | "This is one of the largest open-source teams in the world, and is in the top 2% of all project teams on Ohloh." |
| 10:56:14 | B4gder | "Over the past twelve months, 53 developers contributed new code to rockbox." |
| 10:57:05 | preglow | we're special! |
| 10:57:30 | preglow | and so very beautiful |
| 10:57:31 | * | B4gder jumps. preglow is alive! |
| 10:57:44 | preglow | my client highlights on flattery :> |
| 10:57:49 | B4gder | haha |
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| 13:37:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | Anyone noticing the H100 LCD remote acting a little strangely in Rockbox? |
| 13:37:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | Just got one last night and plugged it into my H340. Buttons work fine and all, but if I let the backlight fade on the H340 itself, the LCD on the remote goes crazy and splits down the horizontal center. |
| 13:38:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | Effectively, the bottom half of the display is on the top, and the top on the bottom. |
| 13:38:43 | * | petur could try tonight... |
| 13:38:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | And after a while, the LCD stops displaying anything, but the backlight remains on. |
| 13:42:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | petur: For the record, I need to update my build, but I'm running r20213 on it. |
| 13:42:58 | petur | you don't want to know what build I run, it is several months old :/ |
| 13:43:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | We're in the same boat, then. :P |
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| 14:17:15 | Casainho | hello :-) |
| 14:17:51 | Casainho | I am looking for a working code of CRC7, for using on SD Card drivers, for Lyre project: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayer |
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| 14:18:29 | Zagor | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/closed-since.pl |
| 14:18:40 | Casainho | does anyone have experience with CRC7 and SD Cards? can anyone share a function for CRC7? |
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| 14:24:51 | Zagor | rasher: look above :) |
| 14:28:16 | rasher | Hurray! |
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| 14:37:28 | pixelma | LambdaCalculus37: does the remote LCD problem also happen with backlight fading on the main unit disabled? |
| 14:39:54 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: Haven't tried that; let me find out. |
| 14:41:44 | pixelma | I wonder how it deals (or it is supposed to deal) with remote backlight in general - or doesn't it at all? |
| 14:42:13 | pixelma | I mean the fading... |
| 14:43:01 | evilnick | pixelma: IIRC, back when I last tried that remote out, it didn't have any fading. It was either backlight on or off. No gradation |
| 14:43:59 | pixelma | well, I thought that the Iriver remotes have EL backlight so can't even have fading, not sure though |
| 14:44:01 | petur | right, I haven't tried the h300 backlight fading _at_all_, explains why I haven't seen it here... version too old... |
| 14:44:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: evilnick is right, and it only seems to occur when the H340 is charging on its dock. |
| 14:44:46 | pixelma | but I wondered if the main unit's backlight fading could do something weird there |
| 14:46:03 | evilnick | LambdaCalculus37: Do you have the backlight (main unit) set to always be on when it's plugged into power? |
| 14:48:23 | | Join funman [0] (i=56421242@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 14:48:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | evilnick: No, on mine, it's set to 15 seconds. |
| 14:48:46 | funman | hello |
| 14:49:33 | funman | saratoga gevaerts thanks to you I have made some progress on SD access for Sansa AMS |
| 14:49:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | funman: Greets! |
| 14:50:23 | funman | thanks to my bad luck I broke the Fuze less than 24 hours after I started using it ! |
| 14:51:24 | funman | I pasted my first code embryo on the forum, if some people can confirm the progress, I'll post it on the tracker |
| 14:54:57 | Casainho | gevaerts: does the SD Card on Sansa do CRC? |
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| 14:59:06 | ucchan | Hello, please could you confirm operation about FS #9383 ? |
| 14:59:16 | | Nick zwj is now known as zej (n=zwjsq@210.41.87.110) |
| 14:59:23 | ucchan | This bug was corrected with my patch. |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:21 | ucchan | One problem mentioned the known bugs list (release 3.2) is closed. |
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| 15:16:34 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 15:21:30 | shiftplusone | Hello, has there be any discussion about a rockbox build for Pandora? (www.openpandora.org) .... while it should be possible I don't know if it's practical and something people would want. |
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| 15:28:04 | pyro_maniac | There are the same issues like on the other linux systems. |
| 15:28:48 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 15:29:15 | pyro_maniac | Some people are trying to make an rockbox app to run un it on such devices but i dont't know the current state |
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| 15:30:28 | Zagor | rockbox is not very good at being an app among others |
| 15:30:46 | Zagor | it is designed to be the only software in the system |
| 15:31:09 | Zagor | if your system runs linux there are lots of other more suitable players to choose from |
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| 15:39:15 | shiftplusone | yeah I thought it's a bit redundant since it can run something like xmms.... but having a whole new OS/firmware for it would be pretty cool. Thanks for the info. |
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| 16:00 |
| 16:02:31 | MT | saratoga : ping |
| 16:08:03 | bubsy | MT : pong |
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| 16:10:13 | MT | bubsy , could you help me with the fixed-point thing ? |
| 16:10:47 | bubsy | sorry, I don't know anything about fixedpoints |
| 16:11:09 | markun | MT: are you porting a codec? |
| 16:11:11 | MT | bubsy : that's why I was pinging saratoga :) |
| 16:11:25 | bubsy | :>' |
| 16:12:05 | MT | markun : hi ! it's a future thing , I'm preparing an application for gsoc |
| 16:12:13 | MT | markun : for rm support |
| 16:12:17 | markun | cool! |
| 16:12:23 | markun | I was hoping someone would do that |
| 16:12:42 | | Part LinusN |
| 16:13:03 | MT | markun : here's the application : http://pastebin.com/f19227929 if you want to comment :) |
| 16:13:05 | markun | some rm files use the AC3 codec, so you could start with just the demuxer and use our existing decoder |
| 16:13:19 | markun | ok, I'll check |
| 16:13:49 | markun | ah, it's you :) I see you in my gmail chat list and forgot you were MT here :) |
| 16:13:56 | MT | I have already continued working on linuxstb's demuxer and was able to extract the audio data from a file |
| 16:14:13 | MT | markun : I've almost never seen you lately :) |
| 16:14:53 | markun | been a bit busy |
| 16:14:59 | bubsy | been a bit bubsy :) |
| 16:15:12 | MT | haha |
| 16:15:36 | MT | the main comment that I was getting from everyone was that 1 week is probably not enough for fixed-point conversion |
| 16:16:01 | | Quit wenjie () |
| 16:16:11 | MT | and that saratoga should have enough expertise with the matter to help me get an idea how long it should take |
| 16:16:11 | markun | do you have sample files of RM with AC3 and MP3? |
| 16:16:20 | MT | I have one with mp3 |
| 16:16:32 | markun | I have some with AC3 I think, if you are interested |
| 16:16:45 | markun | or maybe you can get samples over at ffmpeg |
| 16:17:43 | MT | extracted the audio and played it , it was garbage but it gave the same output as mplayer -dumpstream, the audio is (mp3 in adu format) so that's why |
| 16:17:59 | markun | adu? |
| 16:18:34 | linuxstb | An RFC defines it - it's a different way to pack mpeg audio |
| 16:18:38 | MT | I don't know what's that really, it's the only sample available on mplayer's website with mp3 in it |
| 16:18:45 | linuxstb | http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3119.html |
| 16:20:39 | linuxstb | I guess what's needed is to repack it back into the normal packing, and then pass it to libmad |
| 16:21:43 | MT | linuxstb : I remember reading, in vlc I think, that they didn't support mp3 in rm because " .. only one sample is available" |
| 16:22:01 | MT | this was a comment in their demuxer |
| 16:22:21 | linuxstb | MT: Have you installed "realproducer"? That would be useful if you're planning on working on RM - so you can create lots of samples. |
| 16:23:16 | MT | linuxstb : no, never heard of it. Will install it. |
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| 16:26:55 | markun | MT: this one has AC3 in it rtsp://raudio.wnyc.org/nbt/nbt041803d.ra |
| 16:28:58 | markun | MT: got the link here: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/tnbt/episodes |
| 16:29:04 | markun | the newer ones use cook |
| 16:29:31 | MT | markun : thanks |
| 16:31:53 | * | LambdaCalculus37 likes the link where markun got the samples from :) |
| 16:32:03 | MT | markun : those too ; http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/real/AC-dnet/ |
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| 16:32:46 | markun | MT: yes, that's probably more useful |
| 16:32:49 | saratoga_lab | MT: you probably won't need to know abotu variable length coding |
| 16:33:29 | saratoga_lab | it doesn't use floating point, and cook.c uses the same VLC code as our wma decoder, so you can just reuse the functions |
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| 16:34:07 | saratoga_lab | understanding the IMDCT and subband decompositions would be a good idea though, as cook.c seems to reference both, though the G722 spec only seems to mention IMDCT so I'm not sure why |
| 16:35:30 | MT | saratoga_lab : thanks. do you think 2 weeks (~85 hours) would be enough for the conversion ? |
| 16:36:03 | saratoga_lab | MT: I'm not really sure |
| 16:36:23 | saratoga_lab | i'd expect you could maybe get it working fairly quickly for some files, and be debugging it for others for a very long time |
| 16:36:37 | saratoga_lab | its two years later and I still find WMA files that don't work properly |
| 16:36:50 | saratoga_lab | but cook seems like its meant for fixed point, so maybe its easier to do |
| 16:37:05 | saratoga_lab | and you can reuse a lot of my code |
| 16:37:45 | saratoga_lab | but i think the fixed point conversion will be most of your project, compared to that adding the codec to rockbox will be fairly easy |
| 16:39:30 | MT | saratoga_lab : so I'd just write in the 'Milestones' section that it would take 1-2 weeks to get it working for at least some files, and then mention in 2.2.3.1 (http://pastebin.com/f19227929) what you said about debugging taking up so much time for other files |
| 16:40:20 | saratoga_lab | MT: have you done any DSP before? |
| 16:40:51 | MT | saratoga_lab : not really. |
| 16:41:32 | saratoga_lab | MT: any Fourier related stuff at all? |
| 16:43:33 | MT | saratoga_lab : I've never coded any Fourier related thing, but I have been studying it for the second year now (in college, Maths last year, and DSP this semester) so I think I could find my way through that. |
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| 16:45:13 | saratoga_lab | MT: that fine then, as long as you've done them by hand the programming part will be easy enough |
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| 16:47:04 | MT | saratoga_lab : so what about what I told you regarding the milestones section and 2.2.3.1 ? |
| 16:47:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=21007.0 <−− Seems Apple may have opened the Dock connector, if anyone is interested. |
| 16:47:39 | saratoga_lab | MT: that sounds about right |
| 16:47:51 | saratoga_lab | little bugs will crop up long after the project is over |
| 16:48:07 | saratoga_lab | the key is to get the basics working and the code maintainable |
| 16:48:31 | MT | saratoga_lab : Good. Thanks a lot. |
| 16:49:00 | saratoga_lab | i would say getting cook files in .rm to play is a good goal |
| 16:49:10 | saratoga_lab | the rest can be secondary objectives if there is time |
| 16:49:24 | Zagor | LambdaCalculus37: I'll believe that when I see the docs :) |
| 16:49:30 | MT | that's almost like what I said in the application |
| 16:50:04 | saratoga_lab | i think i my WMA application i said I would get wma v2 to play in rockbox on one player as my only primary goal, the rest was all secondary objectives |
| 16:50:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | Zagor: Hence the "may have". ;) |
| 16:52:08 | saratoga_lab | i hope we get someone else interested in codecs too |
| 16:52:12 | saratoga_lab | i want my wma pro decoder |
| 16:52:13 | MT | That's even better; more definite and articulate. I think I'll write that in my application |
| 16:52:55 | markun | saratoga_lab: I remember WMA Pro scoring really high in listening tests |
| 16:53:59 | saratoga_lab | yeah Pro looks interesting |
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| 17:00 |
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| 17:00:26 | kugel | hm |
| 17:00:35 | kugel | is our qsort 100% reliable? |
| 17:00:48 | kugel | I'm experiencing a weird problem |
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| 17:01:18 | saratoga | i think vorbis uses qsort, so i'd imagine so |
| 17:01:20 | saratoga | but i never checked |
| 17:02:00 | kugel | my file " 02 test" sorts totally incorrect, except if I have a "02 test" in the same dir, then " 02 test" is sorted correctly |
| 17:09:09 | MT | saratoga : could you check 'milestones' and 2.2.3.1 please ? http://pastebin.com/f7627ef8a |
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| 17:12:36 | saratoga | MT: I'd probably be more optamistic, and say that you intend to get typical files all playing correctly, but expect that fixing all possible codec bugs could take a long time |
| 17:13:51 | saratoga | though actually looking at cook.c there doesn't seem to be a lot of different pathways through the decoder, so maybe there won't be so many odd bugs cropping up like in WMA |
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| 17:17:30 | MT | so " I expect to get the decoder working properly as one of the main goals of the project, but further debugging maybe needed later" would be better ? |
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| 17:19:37 | saratoga | MT: i think that sounds good |
| 17:20:35 | MT | saratoga : Thanks for your help :) |
| 17:22:13 | saratoga | no problem |
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| 17:33:09 | kugel | meh, having a leading space messes sorting entirely up |
| 17:33:45 | kugel | not sure where the problem is, might be strnatcmp or qsort. But I couldn't explain how strnatcmp would cause it |
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| 17:35:16 | kugel | ascii sort is correct, though |
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| 17:49:25 | amiconn | kugel: Leading and trailing spaces are not allowed in vfat filenames. How did you get them there? |
| 17:50:44 | kugel | amiconn: touch |
| 17:51:06 | kugel | ah, I'm not on a fat though (testing in sim) |
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| 17:52:20 | kugel | I'm still curious how 1 file alters the sorting of several other files |
| 17:52:25 | rasher | domonoky: Do you know if FS #9729 has been fixed? |
| 17:53:12 | domonoky | rasher: should be fixed. |
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| 17:55:12 | rasher | It seems weird that a FS task was closed in favour of a forum thread... |
| 17:55:21 | kugel | amiconn: could it be a totally different bug then? I imagine rockbox doesn't try to handle leading spaces at all? |
| 17:55:21 | amiconn | kugel: That is expected behaviour for an instable sorting algorithm like quicksort. The particular order of elements which compare the same is not maintained |
| 17:55:39 | amiconn | So that sounds like something wrong with the comparison function |
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| 17:56:45 | kugel | it alters the sorting in a way that several files show up in a totally different position (unstable afaik only means that the original order isn't maintained, so if strings compare the same you cannot expect that they are in the same order) |
| 17:57:26 | kugel | but we cannot strings sorting equally, except they're identical (strnatcmp asks strcmp) |
| 17:57:55 | kugel | so my issue is a different one, I think |
| 17:58:22 | amiconn | Well, are you sure the fallback works? |
| 17:58:40 | kugel | there's no identical string in my test folder |
| 17:58:40 | rasher | Man, r19622 (the statusbar thing) produced a lot of bugs |
| 17:58:54 | amiconn | There were no sorting problems reported before strnatcmp was introduced, and qsort is used in quite a number of places afaik |
| 17:59:23 | kugel | ascii sort is still correct |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:23 | kugel | I cannot explain this behavior. explicitely ignoring leading spaces doesn't help anything |
| 18:01:22 | kugel | if I delete the space-files, everything sorts just fine |
| 18:01:41 | markun | kugel: are you debugging it in the sim? |
| 18:01:54 | | Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:02:01 | kugel | yes |
| 18:02:49 | jaykay | BigBambi: are you sure that data can be lost because to a low-battery-shutdown? |
| 18:03:06 | jaykay | BigBambi: and in 11.4.3 it says image not found |
| 18:03:29 | rasher | JdGordon: When was FS #9764 fixed? I can't find a related commit.. |
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| 18:12:24 | BigBambi | jaykay: Certainly for hard disk targets, yes - Rockbox shuts down when it no longer has enough power to spin up the disk. No disk spin up, no file saving |
| 18:13:17 | | Quit site_name (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:14:00 | BigBambi | jaykay: and for whatever 11.4.3 is, could you open a bug report for it (or even better, a patch!) :) |
| 18:16:58 | | Join AndyIL [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 18:18:10 | MT | just curious, if the rm idea is accepted who are the possible mentors ? |
| 18:19:13 | pixelma | jaykay: may I add - if you open a tracker task for it, don't call it 11.4.3 (I assume it's a missing plugin screenshot of some sort). The chapter numbers can differ across manuals, e.g. for a target without recording there won't be a recording chapter and following chapters will get a different number |
| 18:20:40 | pixelma | looks like the calendar plugin (looked at an e200 manual), so... that plugin itself also isn't present on non-RTC targets |
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| 18:33:01 | rasher | Can anyone give me a reason not to commit FS #9666? |
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| 18:33:37 | kugel | rasher: I can't |
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| 18:36:18 | bertrik | I remember some talk in the past that LCD invert is pretty weird on colour targets in the first place |
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| 18:38:51 | bertrik | Other than that, the patch seems like a reasonable improvement |
| 18:39:27 | rasher | Some themes make sense when inverted as well :) |
| 18:39:40 | rasher | But albumart gets weird |
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| 18:53:49 | rasher | Who is rp9.ath.cx? |
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| 18:55:46 | gevaerts | Casainho: I've never looked at any SD code |
| 18:56:59 | bertrik | Casainho, I am familiar with SD code, but only in SPI mode |
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| 18:57:15 | Casainho | gevaerts: thanks. Look, when I put play on files, the player show the time of the file but don't play it... but I can press forward and it jumps to next one and so on... can it be a problem from not getting audio data from the SD Card? no playing the file... |
| 18:57:33 | Casainho | bertrik: nice :-) −− because I am using SPI!!! :-) |
| 18:57:57 | | Quit robin0800_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:58:19 | Casainho | bertrik: did you use SD Card SPI on Rockbox targets? or anyother projects? |
| 18:58:23 | bertrik | IIRC, you only need the CRC for two commands, it's ignored for all others, unless you explicitly enable CRC checking |
| 18:58:47 | bertrik | Casainho, on other hobby projects |
| 18:59:06 | Casainho | bertrik: but I am getting some problems, which I believe can be because of missing commands going to SD Card... |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:48 | bertrik | what kind of problems? |
| 19:03:20 | rasher | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuildServer#Credits <−− Would be nice if we could complete this table so we know who to contact when things go wrong |
| 19:04:18 | gevaerts | My gigabeat F stopped playing on track change today. the WPS says it's playing, play/pause toggles the play/pause icon, but nothing happens. I haven |
| 19:04:51 | gevaerts | 't touched it since, so it's still in this state. It's running r20134. Should I check specific things? |
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| 19:05:43 | bertrik | Casainho, CMD0 needs a CRC and there's one other command that needs it, CMD8 IIRC |
| 19:05:46 | Casainho | bertrik: when I put play on files, the player show the time of the file but don't play it... but I can press forward and it jumps to next one and so on... can it be a problem from not getting audio data from the SD Card? −− and sometimes I get an hang on getting token answer from SD Card. |
| 19:06:44 | * | rasher denies all responsibility for the red |
| 19:07:08 | Casainho | bertrik: for example, I saw that I were getting errors while reading from SD Card, then, I implemented CRC16 to verify that, and I simple reading again the data on that case. |
| 19:08:05 | bertrik | hmm, I'm quite surprised you get CRC errors at all, maybe your SPI clock is running too fast? |
| 19:09:21 | bertrik | or maybe the SPI is set up incorrectly with respect to clock polarity for example |
| 19:10:08 | bertrik | I think when trying to debug something like this, you should start with a simple test case, not trying to debug sd card problems and audio playback problems at the same time |
| 19:11:18 | bertrik | I think I got into trouble with my hobby project trying to run at 24 MHz, but a bit slower worked fine |
| 19:11:37 | Casainho | bertrik: here is my code: http://pastebin.com/m79d26462 ; if you want the full patch: http://code.google.com/p/rockboxplayer/source/browse/trunk/rockbox_patch/0003-20090316-rockbox_player-r20325.patch |
| 19:12:59 | Casainho | bertrik: I started by doing the code, mount FAT32, etc... just now when trying play files I get that errors, but now always... maybe playing filesi sm ore intensive |
| 19:14:19 | gevaerts | Casainho: can you copy files around within rockbox? |
| 19:14:42 | Casainho | bertrik: so, my idea is to make the driver more robust, using also the CRC7 for the commands, and so I am looking for a function for CRC7, but looks like everyone skip it :-) |
| 19:15:05 | Casainho | gevaerts: "copy files around within rockbox" ?? didn't understand |
| 19:15:44 | gevaerts | Casainho: you can copy files in the file browser. That would be a reasonably good way to test if the SD driver works |
| 19:15:47 | Casainho | bertrik: I will keep that in mind, I will try to lower the frequency also :-) |
| 19:16:32 | Casainho | gevaerts: well, I don't even know how to do that, I didn't know that Rockbox permit that :-) −− (nice to share files if device have 2 sd cards) |
| 19:16:36 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:17:05 | gevaerts | Casainho: in that case you may not have the correct keymap yet :) |
| 19:17:35 | Casainho | gevaerts: but my write_sector is not working, I tested it and is not working. I prefer to focus on reading_sector |
| 19:17:51 | Casainho | gevaerts: I have a Sansa. |
| 19:17:53 | gevaerts | Casainho: do you have working plugins? |
| 19:18:03 | Casainho | no working plugins |
| 19:18:15 | gevaerts | hm, so the md5sum plugin won't help either |
| 19:18:54 | | Join yhuang [0] (n=yhuang@unaffiliated/yhuang) |
| 19:18:55 | gevaerts | Screendumps from the stacks and buffering debug screens on my gigabeat at http://www.evonet.be/~gevaerts/stacks.png and http://www.evonet.be/~gevaerts/buffering.png |
| 19:19:40 | Casainho | well, I am alone so I can't do everyting |
| 19:20:19 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 19:20:19 | Casainho | well, I think I will focus on a robust SD Card drivers first. I will work on CRC7. |
| 19:21:51 | perrikwp | gevaerts: I have had problems with my Gigabeat F and S where it will freeze while playing songs and between track changes |
| 19:22:15 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 19:22:44 | perrikwp | I found that it had something to do with the Shuffle setting, with it turned off I have no problems |
| 19:24:05 | bertrik | Casainho, I think getting CRC errors at all suggests another problem, maybe electrical or related to SPI settings. |
| 19:24:12 | gevaerts | I don't use shuffle. I do have auto change directory set to random though |
| 19:24:39 | bertrik | at first glance, I can't find any obvious bugs in the code you pasted |
| 19:24:45 | perrikwp | maybe there is common code between the two |
| 19:25:57 | * | gevaerts waits for one of our many of our enthousiastic playback code experts to comment :) |
| 19:25:57 | bertrik | Casainho, maybe you need to wait a little longer between sending a command and sending/receiving data |
| 19:26:09 | perrikwp | The only problem is that my problem is hard to reproduce, it only happens every now and then, but shuffle must be on for it to happen |
| 19:26:34 | Casainho | bertrik: thanks. Ok, before working on CRC7, I will first verify the Clock polarity (SPI MODE) and also try to lower the freqency −− If I still get errors, then I will move to CRC77 |
| 19:26:48 | bertrik | what SPI clock frequency are you using now? |
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| 19:27:35 | Casainho | bertrik: ok, I will also try to add a bit of delay |
| 19:27:53 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:28:08 | Casainho | bertrik: I think is near 25MHz, a bit less. My problem is that to have less than that I have to lower CPU freq... :-( |
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| 19:38:12 | rp- | Hi! just noticed and after that read that there is a problem with my build server |
| 19:38:16 | rp- | fixing it right now |
| 19:38:25 | Bagder | ah nice |
| 19:38:32 | Bagder | I _just_ mailed you ;-) |
| 19:38:45 | rp- | i see :) |
| 19:39:09 | rp- | I somehow assumed the the rockboxdev.sh script build all compilers if use the 'a' option |
| 19:39:24 | rp- | but that is just arm :) |
| 19:39:30 | Bagder | ah, haha |
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| 19:40:31 | rasher | Bagder: did you remove me from the pool? |
| 19:40:43 | Casainho | bye bye |
| 19:40:44 | | Quit Casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]") |
| 19:40:55 | Bagder | rasher: no, you have two host names there |
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| 19:41:35 | rasher | Bagder: you can remove the one that's not :37015 |
| 19:41:46 | | Quit blithe ("Lost terminal") |
| 19:41:54 | Bagder | ok |
| 19:41:57 | | Join blithe [0] (n=blithe@blakesmith.me) |
| 19:42:38 | Bagder | "failed with ssh exit code: 65280" ...! |
| 19:43:38 | rp- | I put myself into the buildserver wiki page |
| 19:43:46 | rasher | Bagder: now that's weird.. |
| 19:44:03 | Bagder | it is |
| 19:44:50 | | Quit tvelocity ("ΑποχώÏησε") |
| 19:44:54 | Bagder | perl -cw acbuild.pl |
| 19:44:54 | Bagder | Scalar found where operator expected at |
| 19:44:59 | Bagder | ... |
| 19:45:29 | Bagder | there's a missing semicolon |
| 19:45:31 | rasher | oh hang on |
| 19:45:52 | rasher | Fixedeth |
| 19:46:14 | Bagder | then it should work again I think |
| 19:46:23 | rp- | ok my build server should now work for all targets |
| 19:46:42 | Bagder | rp-: good, I have it left in the pool |
| 19:47:02 | rp- | sorry for the red build :/ |
| 19:49:21 | rasher | The delta for my commit is fun |
| 19:49:53 | | Join JohnTeddy [0] (i=unstable@tor/regular/sid) |
| 19:50:28 | JohnTeddy | I hate the of on this sansa e280 v2, does the rb firmware work enough to where I can listen to music on the e280 v2? |
| 19:50:49 | JohnTeddy | I don't care about vidoe, fm radio, voice, games, etc etc, just music. |
| 19:51:17 | n1s | it's not ready for general use, no |
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| 19:52:12 | * | bertrik wonders if he should enable LCD invert for the c200 |
| 19:52:30 | | Quit _lifeless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:52:48 | JohnTeddy | n1s: You have a device with these chipsets? |
| 19:53:11 | | Quit ultrasonic (Connection timed out) |
| 19:54:11 | n1s | JohnTeddy: no |
| 19:54:31 | JohnTeddy | It was working several months ago, just not well. |
| 19:54:49 | JohnTeddy | I hate the of so much, I think I'm willing to mess around and risk bricking. |
| 19:55:32 | rasher | It's not so much that you risk bricking (I believe), just that it doesn't really work |
| 19:56:16 | JohnTeddy | Does the boot loader work? |
| 19:56:28 | JohnTeddy | Where I can boot into of from the boot loader. |
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| 20:00 |
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| 20:00:57 | * | rasher wonders why bluebrother closed FS #9369 |
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| 20:01:41 | rasher | Ah, they were in fact released. Gosh. |
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| 20:09:05 | pixelma | kugel: does r20355 mean that statusbar and menu will now be shown quite late? I had hoped the fix would be the other way round... |
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| 20:22:32 | kugel | pixelma: I don't know why the menu is late, has probably something to do with the playback engine or something |
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| 20:23:41 | kugel | pixelma: did you get the message? |
| 20:24:57 | pixelma | nope, read it in the logs now |
| 20:26:34 | pixelma | why is/was the statusbar able to show up earlier then? |
| 20:26:57 | kugel | because it was drawn first |
| 20:27:15 | kugel | it was draw statusbar -> stop playback -> go to menu |
| 20:27:26 | | Quit yhuang ("Leaving") |
| 20:28:43 | kugel | now it's: stop playback -> draw statusbbar -> go to menu |
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| 20:29:20 | kugel | stopping playback can take a bit, particularly with fade on stop |
| 20:30:07 | amiconn | Makes sense as such, only that there is no early indication that rockbox registered the stop button press |
| 20:31:10 | | Quit JdGordon| ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 20:31:29 | amiconn | Way back before button actions, it was fairly easy to press button sequences in advance, becauee behaviour was predictable. |
| 20:31:34 | pixelma | aha, if the WPS shows playback status (and shows something different for "stop") then that should be an indicator |
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| 20:32:01 | amiconn | Now it is much harder, because one never knows when rockbox will swallow keypresses :\ |
| 20:32:51 | amiconn | E.g. some plugins cause rockbox to swallow the next keypress after exiting, some don't. So far I didn't detect a pattern |
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| 20:35:10 | amiconn | Likewise, some screens have broken context menu handling on ipods. Sometimes holding Select just for a little too long brings up another context menu |
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| 20:59:00 | Llorean | kugel: I don't think we should commit any more sort changes before the release. In fact I'm almost tempted to say we disable the option for this release, until we have an absolutely final algorithm, so that we're not changing default sorting in "release" builds until it's a final default. |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:04:52 | kugel | Llorean: well, given the discussion, this seems to have very good changes to be the final algorithm (plus, I didn't plan to put it into the release branch, as I'm not sure) |
| 21:05:05 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 21:05:24 | Llorean | kugel: Yes, but I'm going further in saying we need to revert to ASCII in the release branch |
| 21:05:30 | Llorean | Right now it has the intermediate algorithm, which is even worse. |
| 21:05:31 | kugel | but I wouldn't disable the option. It's not broken or something as of now. but whatever, I'm using current build anyway, I'm not going to force it in |
| 21:05:44 | Llorean | The whole point of releases is to be a release of what's _stable_ |
| 21:05:56 | Llorean | If we KNOW the sorting isn't going to be done that way, it should never be in the release. |
| 21:06:05 | gevaerts | how about reverting the *default* setting in the release, i.e. set it to ascii sort? |
| 21:06:22 | Llorean | gevaerts: Well, the "natural" sort in the release is an algorithm we know is never actually going to be used again. |
| 21:06:29 | Llorean | It really shouldn't be available to the user, period. |
| 21:06:41 | kugel | so either backport, or disable? |
| 21:06:47 | Llorean | Either backport or disable. |
| 21:06:51 | Llorean | In my opinion |
| 21:06:54 | gevaerts | true. |
| 21:07:04 | * | gevaerts agrees with either backport or disable |
| 21:07:08 | * | kugel votes for backport |
| 21:07:26 | Llorean | kugel: There's still plenty of debate on the algorithm, not including me. |
| 21:07:31 | Llorean | You're just choosing to rush and/or ignore it. |
| 21:07:33 | kugel | I'm quite positive that the algorithm won't change anymore after FS #10030 is committed. |
| 21:07:41 | kugel | But as I said, I don't care too much about it |
| 21:07:43 | Llorean | kugel: Then why are people still objecting to it? |
| 21:08:35 | Llorean | I just don't see why it needs to be rushed in, necessarily. |
| 21:08:52 | kugel | people will probably stick to current build anyway if usb is disabled too |
| 21:09:22 | gevaerts | some will, some won't |
| 21:09:23 | kugel | Llorean: Me neither, and I won't push it as I said |
| 21:09:23 | Llorean | Except people who only use Releases. And we don't want to change the default sort method on them twice. |
| 21:11:31 | BigBambi | I'd say that if there is agreement in time then backport it, if not then disable it |
| 21:12:21 | kugel | BigBambi: that's what I'm saying too. But it's not always easy to tell whether the agreement is there or not ;) |
| 21:12:45 | Llorean | BigBambi: Well, "in time" is in 4 days, and then we also need to know the algorithm doesn't have any unexpected bugs. *plus* we're supposed to be post-branch, so I'm not sure inserting a new-algorithm at this point is good at all anyway |
| 21:12:46 | gevaerts | we 96 hours. I think the last 24 hours should be a *very* deep freeze, so that's 72 |
| 21:12:59 | Llorean | I mean, ostensibly the freeze is over. |
| 21:13:17 | Llorean | The question is whether this is _definitely_ a bug fix, or a new feature and the "fix" is just removing it for now. |
| 21:13:17 | * | gevaerts thinks that it's too late now. Last monday, ok, but today, no |
| 21:13:29 | BigBambi | Llorean: So in that case there isn't time and just disable it |
| 21:13:51 | Llorean | BigBambi: That's my opinion. Disable natural sorting entirely for 3.2, get it right (whatever you guys agree on) for 3.3 and make it rock solid. |
| 21:14:35 | Llorean | That's the whole goal with releases. We agreed for the regular release schedule that we're willing to "cut" things for stability if necessary. I'd rather cut something that hasn't been in a release yet, than gamble. It's only a few months until the next one anyway. :) |
| 21:14:58 | * | kugel can agree with that |
| 21:15:07 | BigBambi | yup |
| 21:15:53 | JdGordon| | 3.3 is going to be less than stable /me guesses :) |
| 21:16:34 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: not if we push the big changes for 3.3 next week :) |
| 21:16:38 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:17:10 | * | kugel hopes to get custom list done for 3.3 :( |
| 21:17:17 | JdGordon| | that just means we have 3months to add more things to make it more unstable |
| 21:17:22 | Llorean | gevaerts: We should've been pushing them *this* week to the trunk. :-P |
| 21:17:42 | JdGordon| | kugel: yeah, that, the 3 patches im working on... sorting enalbed, usb enabled... |
| 21:17:44 | gevaerts | Llorean: I'm busy doing that :) |
| 21:18:17 | kugel | maybe AA fonts too? that would be nice |
| 21:18:29 | Llorean | kugel: Do you know why AA font files are smaller? |
| 21:18:36 | BigBambi | multifont! |
| 21:18:40 | Llorean | Does the converter just convert a limited range, or are they compressed in some way? |
| 21:19:00 | * | JdGordon| was talking about patches which are close to ready and presumably would definetly be ready by june |
| 21:19:20 | kugel | Llorean: no. I just know the converter directly goes to .fnt, without the .bdf |
| 21:19:52 | kugel | But I'm fairly sure they're not compressed in a jpeg or something (by looking at the drawing code) |
| 21:21:01 | kugel | Llorean: well, I've noticed that un-fonts (they have unicode chars) are pretty big with aa fonts. but our unicode font isn't exactly small either |
| 21:21:08 | Llorean | Well, someone on the ABi forums posted a list of AA and non-AA versions of the same fonts with the AA ones being about 1/3 to 1/2 the size |
| 21:21:16 | kugel | I noticed that |
| 21:21:31 | Llorean | And I can only imagine that being the case if they're dropping a bunch of characters. |
| 21:21:53 | Llorean | Or the AA version of .fnt is compressed somehow. |
| 21:21:55 | kugel | maybe they are compressed, could be, I'm not really into the algorithm |
| 21:22:20 | kugel | I just know it looks uber nice and is not any slower ;) |
| 21:22:27 | Llorean | Either way, i wouldn't mind seeing AA fonts, but I really don't want to see the fontcache get bigger for it. |
| 21:22:42 | Llorean | kugel: It's slower. It's just not *much* slower. |
| 21:22:48 | Llorean | It's not computationally free. |
| 21:23:21 | kugel | is that assumption (as in, more depth must be more expensive) or did you make statistics? |
| 21:23:34 | kugel | I've never noticed slower drawing, not even in big lists |
| 21:23:41 | kugel | but I don't have accurate numbers |
| 21:23:55 | amiconn | Only measurement will tell the truth |
| 21:24:00 | Llorean | kugel: The only way it could not be slower is if mono fonts aren't optimized as much. |
| 21:24:08 | gevaerts | kugel: don't forget that people notice one multiply per second too many here :) |
| 21:24:17 | amiconn | I expect AA fonts to be slower by factors. At least three times |
| 21:24:36 | * | rasher wish someone would just do the measurements already |
| 21:24:58 | kugel | amiconn: could you do the messurements? You're more familiar with such sort of benchmarking than me (or anyone else I know) |
| 21:25:05 | Llorean | gevaerts: I just take offense at the phrase "not any slower". I'd accept "not noticeably slower" but I have a hard time believing AA fonts take equal or less time to draw than mono ones. |
| 21:25:12 | BigBambi | kugel: Are there any side by side screenshots anywhere? (side by side of AA and non-AA that is) |
| 21:25:22 | Llorean | BigBambi: You really need to look at it on a player. |
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| 21:25:53 | Llorean | Screenshots on a PC screen (which tends to have higher pixel density) don't create the same effect. (Some people think it looks better on player, some worse) |
| 21:25:59 | kugel | BigBambi: this one shows a few, http://rbthemes.com/fonts/, but it's more impressive on the dap |
| 21:26:08 | BigBambi | Llorean: I guess. I just can't be bothered :) |
| 21:26:14 | BigBambi | Maybe I should get round to trying |
| 21:26:26 | * | amiconn was never really impressed by simple AA on text |
| 21:26:28 | BigBambi | I guess full instructions are in the flyspray task? |
| 21:26:41 | amiconn | It just becomes too blurry, especially at low pixel desities |
| 21:27:11 | Llorean | That's my opinion too. I like AA on my computer, but when I try it on the DAP, the definition is just too low for it to really be nice looking. |
| 21:27:19 | amiconn | Subpixel is quite good, but not really doable on our targets (because of the varying panel orientation) |
| 21:27:30 | kugel | BigBambi: I think so, yes. basically, the only changes were to the converter |
| 21:27:45 | amiconn | For gfx it's a different matter, but for text it's a big nono imo |
| 21:28:04 | * | kugel disagrees |
| 21:29:39 | rasher | It's not like we have to agree whether or not to like it. |
| 21:30:35 | Llorean | As I said, I wouldn't mind seeing it as long as the impact is minimal. |
| 21:30:51 | BigBambi | kugel: So the first patch still applies, and then you just need the mpegplayer fix (and an appropriate font)? |
| 21:31:20 | kugel | I think so, yes. I didn't mess with it a long time, so my memory might be wrong |
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| 21:31:48 | BigBambi | OK, I'll have a go and pass judgement :) |
| 21:32:59 | kugel | the mpegplayer fix is only a workaround, though |
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| 21:48:20 | * | petur is unable to reproduce the iriver remote issue LambdaCalculus37 had |
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| 21:50:00 | rasher | Last chance for objections against me replacing the theme site code in SVN with my new and improved(tm) code. |
| 21:50:02 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 21:50:35 | * | JdGordon| objects |
| 21:50:42 | JdGordon| | it CANT BE NEW AND IMPROVED!!! |
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| 21:51:04 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:51:08 | rasher | It's hosted on git - how could it not be at least 50% more awesome? |
| 21:51:26 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@host-091-097-245-112.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:51:45 | JdGordon| | whats that got to do with anything? |
| 21:51:55 | JdGordon| | I mean, i agree that it probably is |
| 21:52:17 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: it's about themes. That means that subjective things do count ;) |
| 21:52:21 | bluebrother | rasher: that's definitely a good point :) |
| 21:53:21 | rasher | JdGordon|: Nothing. It didn't seem like there was much pressure to make sense |
| 21:55:23 | JdGordon| | fair enough |
| 21:55:29 | JdGordon| | go for it then :) |
| 21:56:08 | taylor_ | Hello everyone. This is very important, it concerns the notes 'hack' . Does anyone here have a 5g or 5.5g ipod? |
| 21:58:58 | | Join parafin [0] (i=parafin@paraf.in) |
| 21:59:00 | rasher | I wonder if it'd be worth it to import my git history to svn? |
| 21:59:07 | rasher | (if possibly, I know little of this stuff) |
| 21:59:10 | linuxstb | rasher: I like history... |
| 21:59:12 | rasher | Possible* |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:25 | gevaerts | taylor_: what more do you need? |
| 22:00:41 | taylor_ | Do you have a 5g? |
| 22:00:58 | gevaerts | yes. I don't have itunes though, so if you need that I can't help |
| 22:01:06 | taylor_ | Nope just a 5g |
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| 22:05:46 | rasher | linuxstb: Yes. I've no idea how I'd go about moving my git history into SVN though |
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| 22:08:26 | evilnick | taylor_: What is the notes 'hack'? |
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| 22:09:24 | | Quit tchan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 22:16:39 | | Quit raphi ("Verlassend") |
| 22:19:20 | linuxstb | evilnick: An attempted buffer overflow attack on the new ipods. |
| 22:20:42 | | Quit fixxxermet ("Leaving.") |
| 22:21:08 | evilnick | linuxstb: Ah, new meaning > 5th gen I take it. |
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| 22:22:00 | linuxstb | Yes, although I think taylor_ (who left...???) wants people to try it on a 5g, on the assumption that the same overflow may happen there... |
| 22:22:42 | cmwslw | The notes bug has been confirmed on a 5G |
| 22:22:54 | cmwslw | same bug as in all of the Nanos |
| 22:23:19 | cmwslw | and the 5G is the only unencrypted iPod that has the bug |
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| 22:23:45 | cmwslw | we haven't tested anything older than the 5G, though |
| 22:23:52 | linuxstb | Huh? |
| 22:24:20 | cmwslw | What? |
| 22:24:37 | | Quit {-phoenix-} (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:24:47 | cmwslw | By the way, all of the hardware annotations are finished |
| 22:25:10 | cmwslw | You can check them out here: http://nxtpp.clustur.com/index.php/Hardware_annotation |
| 22:25:20 | * | evilnick offers to test it on a 5 (or 5.5)G |
| 22:25:50 | linuxstb | cmwslw: I mean the 5G was the last unencrypted ipod. |
| 22:26:28 | cmwslw | Yea |
| 22:26:33 | linuxstb | So if you haven't tested anything older, then you can't say the 5G is the only unencrypted ipod with that bug. |
| 22:27:26 | cmwslw | Well, it's the most common unencrypted iPod |
| 22:27:27 | taylor_ | linuxstb: its not. any ipod capable of viewing notes is affected! |
| 22:27:56 | cmwslw | But the memory dumper will only work with the 5G |
| 22:28:57 | cmwslw | Are 5G and 5.5G firmwares compatible? |
| 22:29:13 | taylor_ | sort of |
| 22:29:22 | taylor_ | gevaerts is already testing for me, thanks |
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| 22:29:38 | cmwslw | does he have a 5.5G? |
| 22:29:43 | cmwslw | or just a 5G |
| 22:29:56 | taylor_ | it works on both |
| 22:30:00 | * | gevaerts has a 5G 30GB |
| 22:30:19 | cmwslw | ok |
| 22:30:22 | linuxstb | There's almost no difference between the 5G and 5.5G - Rockbox has one build for both. It's just the disk sector size that varies. |
| 22:30:36 | cmwslw | ok, thanks |
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| 22:47:25 | jaykay | Bigbambi: some ours ago i mentioned a missing image - its from the calendar plugin, there is also only one picture in plugins/images, only for 112*64px |
| 22:47:38 | jaykay | i guess i still should report a bug right? |
| 22:48:25 | BigBambi | jaykay: I refer you to the answer I gave then, and to what pixelma said shortly afterwards |
| 22:48:28 | taylor_ | Its been confirmed that the memory dumper is useless for dumping *ALL* of the mem on the ipod. It is used just for dumping decrypted games |
| 22:48:37 | taylor_ | thanks, gevaerts |
| 22:52:06 | | Quit midgey () |
| 22:53:01 | cmwslw | It could probably be modified to dump the memory after a note is displayed, but that would be hard to do |
| 22:53:16 | linuxstb | Do you have a URL for this memory dumper? |
| 22:53:30 | jaykay | BigBambi: i reported it, FS #10036 |
| 22:53:36 | taylor_ | yeah |
| 22:53:47 | BigBambi | jaykay: coolio |
| 22:53:48 | cmwslw | Also, if the iPod crashes when the note is displayed, how could any memory dumping code run? |
| 22:54:00 | taylor_ | mem dump before crash |
| 22:54:12 | taylor_ | BadBlox made it just dump games |
| 22:54:29 | taylor_ | we would need to change around the code to make it dump EVERYTHING |
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| 23:00 |
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| 23:16:41 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:26:45 | kugel | JdGordon|: We could remove the backdrop and statusbar restoration from root_menu.c now |
| 23:31:00 | kugel | Bagder: :( |
| 23:31:31 | kugel | seems I have no chance for interpreting floats, neither nautilus nor windows explorer do it. only ls -lv do it |
| 23:31:35 | kugel | does* |
| 23:32:09 | Bagder | floats is the road to doom anyway so I really thing we should stay out of them |
| 23:32:14 | Bagder | think |
| 23:32:41 | | Quit robin0800_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:32:54 | kugel | no floats in rockbox core, ever :p |
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| 23:35:16 | JdGordon| | kugel: if removing it is cleaner than svn, and it works... go for it |
| 23:35:41 | kugel | s/remove/let the wps handle it/ |
| 23:35:57 | JdGordon| | yeah, i figured :) |
| 23:36:00 | JdGordon| | sounds good |
| 23:36:24 | stripwax | linuxstb - does ipod 5g 60GB build have the same disk sector code as the 5.5g 80GB? or the same code as 5g 30GB build? |
| 23:36:26 | kugel | this gwps_leave_wps is really useful, imo :p |
| 23:36:40 | JdGordon| | mind you.... if we could get it so you couldnt exit the wps at all (menus included) without going through root_menu.c we could remove it from the wps code and only have it in one place |
| 23:37:17 | linuxstb | stripwax: 60GB as the same 512-byte sectors as 5g 30GB |
| 23:37:27 | linuxstb | (60GB has...) |
| 23:38:48 | stripwax | linuxstb - yep, I actually meant - given that the 64MB build needs to work on both 5.5g 80GB and 5g 60GB, is there anything in the disk code (required for 80GB) that's unnecessary/suboptimal for 60GB target? |
| 23:39:01 | | Part cspotcode |
| 23:39:02 | kugel | JdGordon|: well, root_menu calls the wps, I'm not sure how the wps calling the root_menu later would be |
| 23:39:40 | JdGordon| | the wps doesnt call root_menu()... it returns |
| 23:39:44 | * | JdGordon| has to get back to work |
| 23:40:31 | n1s | stripwax: ifaik it does a test on startup to see if it needs to do the special handling of the disk so it shouldn't be noticable on the 60GB |
| 23:40:45 | n1s | s/ifaik/afaik/ |
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| 23:42:25 | kugel | JdGordon|: I know, but you seemed to propse the wps to call root_menu again (and not return) |
| 23:42:26 | | Quit vodi (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:43:00 | kugel | or, I didn't understand you fully |
| 23:43:22 | stripwax | n1s - good to know - thanks |
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| 23:54:30 | JdGordon| | kugel: no, i meant that if the wps ever wanted to show another screen it has to return to root_menu() which would then start the new screen... we cant completly do this at the moment, and it might not be something we actually want/need so for now yeah change it to however feels best |
| 23:56:56 | rasher | Bagder: did I just break rockbox-cvs? |
| 23:57:10 | Bagder | no, i got lots of mail |
| 23:57:19 | rasher | I only got about 10 |
| 23:57:45 | Bagder | and how many were you expecting? |
| 23:58:13 | | Quit vodi ("leaving") |
| 23:58:18 | rasher | good question.. 30-40 perhaps |
| 23:58:54 | | Quit HellDragon (Client Quit) |
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