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#rockbox log for 2009-03-27

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00:13:42Unhelpfulpixelma: actually, the ondio standard context has BUTTON_OFF as an alternate button for ACTION_STD_CANCEL. that's why i used short off for cancel, and long off for quit.
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01:42:07flybackany arm7tdmi ports of rockbox
01:43:03scorcheflyback: all of the PP devices are arm7tcmi
01:43:08kugelwell, sure as in, AFAIR yes
01:43:10flybackPP ?
01:43:17flybackah ok
01:43:22flybackcause juicebox are arm7tdmi
01:43:38flybackYOUR MOM
01:44:00kugelI don't think we ported rockbox to my mum
01:44:04kugeldid we?
01:44:13rasherStay on topic..
01:46:24 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
01:46:47kugelseems S3C44B0 seems similar to the gigabeat F/X cpus (going by the name)
01:47:00 Quit JdGordon|| (" ajax IRC Client")
01:47:07rasherSeems like a pretty well-researched target, but it's not exactly an obvious port to work on
01:47:28rasherIf anyone picks it up and works on it, fine
01:47:50kugelflyback: good luck
01:48:06flybackI was just curious :P
01:49:11cxoLinuxDevices! thats the name i was looking for
01:49:35rashercxo: This hasn't suddenly turned on topic since last time you talked about it.
01:51:15cxoSo is everyone going to power off your power hungry devices for Earth Day?
01:51:40flybackno I am going to burn some plastic
01:51:44flybackand oil
01:51:52evilnickcxo: Veering offtopic...
01:53:05flybackthese dipshits would do a lot more for the planet if on earth day they went around to factories and offered to clean and refurb machery to increase the efficiency
01:53:13rasherflyback: Stop it.
01:53:15flybackinstead of skipping wiping their ass for a day thinking they are so good
01:53:47flybackso how about those steelers?
01:53:48*flyback runs
01:53:56cxoMaybe Rockbox can help! By automagically switching off the device on Friday
01:54:01scorcheflyback: seriously
01:54:06scorchecxo: you too
01:54:53scorcheit isnt that hard....rockbox stuff in #rockbox ; non-rockbox stuff/social stuff in #rockbox-community
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02:37:42kugelJdGordon: oh, btw, I still don
02:37:57kugel't know how to deal with set_int/etc re custom vp
02:39:42 Join Xqtftqx [0] (i=4b7655d1@gateway/web/ajax/
02:40:07XqtftqxAnybody find any more info about the zune?
02:40:54cxoi was searching recently
02:41:04Xqtftqxfind anything intresting?
02:41:25 Nick rvvs89_ is now known as rvvs89 (
02:41:34cxoapparently the firmware is encrypted or some mambo, so its unlikely to have anything going for a while
02:42:06Xqtftqxwe aready knew that
02:42:27XqtftqxIve got tons of possibilites of exploits, but nobody around here is willing to help out
02:42:47cxooh sorry, i thought you were just another n00b like me
02:42:58Xqtftqxhaha, i am. But a smarted n00b
02:43:08cxoyeah, so its running some WinCE alike OS, but it reboots everytime it detects an overflow
02:43:17kugelJdGordon: how's your playback patch? Am I right that you have "greater" plans with it, that would possibly delay it?
02:43:33LloreanXqtftqx: If you've got possible exploits, why don't you test them and see which ones work?
02:43:55cxoNo one has posted reliable crashes yet
02:44:19Xqtftqxi dont have the resources, and just a zune 8. Ill need somebody who can get acsess to the harddrive on a larger zune
02:44:38soapthere have already been dumps of the HDD
02:44:44LloreanXqtftqx: So by "nobody will help" you mean "nobody is willing to spend money on my ideas"?
02:44:45cxoi'm thinking of buying a wifi model, do you think its worth the hack?
02:44:53cxonot cheap you know...
02:45:21cxodidnt someone say its just like the Gigabeat S or something
02:45:25XqtftqxLlorean: Not really spend money, just need to have more hardware experience and willing to take apart there zune to put some files on it
02:45:38Unhelpfulcxo: only with the known security holes closed.
02:46:12LloreanXqtftqx: You get hardware experience by doing hardware stuff. And nobody here *has* a Zune, so yeah, money.
02:46:27cxohave there been any firmware updates since its launch (the zune) ?
02:46:32soapthey go for $75-$125 on craigslist
02:46:40Xqtftqxtons of firmware updates
02:47:09cxoi'm guessing you have to start the hack with an official firmware update tool or something
02:47:19Xqtftqxall encrypted
02:47:41XqtftqxMy cucrrent possibility is performing an overflow on the jpeg album art when its recieved from the marketplace
02:48:59cxothis is microsoft crap, its got to have millions of holes, i cant believe no one has hacked this in 2yrs
02:49:14evilnickXqtftqx: Isn't the marketplace run BY Microsoft?
02:49:35Xqtftqxyes, but i have the nice powerfull power of DNS spoofing
02:49:38*Unhelpful didin't think you could *give* your zune AA that you had chosen
02:50:01UnhelpfulXqtftqx: and they don't use SSL for their communications with these servers?
02:50:15*evilnick would be pretty shocked if that hadn't already been tried
02:50:24XqtftqxThey use a goldleaf or something along that lines
02:50:37soapthe zune 30, despite the media attention it got, never received the market share of even the black 2nd gen nano, much less the 2nd gen nano as a whole.
02:50:53Xqtftqxim not exactly sure what it is, but i was able to sniff urls to album art from the zune from wifi
02:51:12soapTo expect it would have garnered the attention of someone with the skill, desire, and luck to crack it is a failing mark in probability class.
02:51:20cxoi think that golden quote sums it up... "Apple should pay a nice sum for these nice guys who turn their fashion crap into a music player"
02:52:41cxoi guess some student should hack it, someone who has access to logic analysers and things
02:52:58soap"things" being the key word.
02:53:41soapBut why should someone hack it? It's a mote in history's eye.
02:53:51cxoIts got WIFI!!!!!!
02:54:07XqtftqxYes it does, but its soo restricted i usualy forget its there
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02:54:27soapit has a 2.4Ghz radio.
02:54:33evilnickImagine the pleasure of the first Rockbox squirt
02:54:37soapSo does my telephone.
02:54:56cxoXqtftqx, really?
02:55:13cxolike you cant jump onto a windows share or something with the original OS?
02:55:46Xqtftqxnope, you can sync wireless with the zune software, browse the marketplace, and share songs with other zunes. Thats all
02:56:00cxosucks balls
02:56:11n17ikhneeds more web browser
02:56:19n17ikhsee also: ipod touch
02:56:41cxodoes touch have wifi?
02:57:05n17ikhapple has a real money factory with that
02:57:10cxonot so restrictive?
02:57:12LloreanThis is getting off topic
02:58:07cxok, i'll ask over there −−−−−−−−−−->
03:00:16 Join killan [0] (
03:00:39JdGordonkugel: the playback patch still has possible bugs (Although im not sure if they are new or what).... I'm waiting for Nico_P's ok...
03:00:56Xqtftqxhas anyone seen XNJB? I believe they have cracked a way to view the zunes filesystem. Maybe some libmtp stuff comming in?
03:00:59JdGordonhopefully him me and pondlife have a chat over the weekend to decide how to proceed
03:01:42cxothere isnt a ipod touch port yet is there?
03:01:47kugelJdGordon: well, I'm possibly the only one with that impression, but I think shortly after a release is a decent time to commit experimental code
03:01:53 Quit Xqtftqx (" ajax IRC Client")
03:02:21JdGordonfor sure.... but there are other considerations
03:02:39kugelthat's why I'm cosidering just committing my custom list/vp patch. It's just getting more and/or better bug reports which help fixing
03:02:40JdGordonwe have 2.5months to worry about getting it tested untill the next release so no big deal
03:02:57JdGordonim not sure thats a good idea...
03:03:02JdGordonnot without discussion first
03:03:51kugelwell, binsize increase is rather tiny, and there's no obious chanes to users who don't use the custom vp
03:04:35kugelbasically, the only thing I'm changing is the NULL vp to the custom one. those who don't use custom dimensions still actually get the NULL one
03:04:58 Part EternalRains
03:05:05JdGordonits not only about the looks... how is the viewport specified?
03:05:12kugelbut yea, I said considering, not doing
03:05:39kugelconfig.cfg (or any theme)
03:05:43JdGordonalso.... done the manual patch? :)
03:06:04cxowhere are the rockbox screenshots?
03:06:14kugelcxo: manual
03:06:36Lloreankugel, JdGordon: If all the known bugs are fixed, I'd say give it about 4 days on the -dev ML to see if anyone sees any problems with cfg syntax and general description of "how it works" then go for it.
03:07:42kugelLlorean: there are bugs which require more fixing besides the general implementation
03:08:47LloreanYou shouldn't commit something with outstanding bugs.
03:08:52kugellike the set_int issue (that one uses always NULL as of now, which is weird if you specified a custom viewport using do_menu() before, or splashf()
03:09:03kugelthough th splashf bug is also in svn, just not so apparent
03:09:32kugelwell, those bugs are bugs, which having nothing to do with custom vps imp
03:10:04kugeland it's nearly impossible to get all catched without a greater amount of testers
03:10:04LloreanIf they're bugs caused by the patch, then they do.
03:10:07JdGordonso fix em :)
03:10:27LloreanDoes the patch have bugs that do not exist in SVN without the patch? If yes, then fix them before committing.
03:10:41kugelthey exist in svn
03:10:42 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=rmenes@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37)
03:10:59kugelit's just they are not visible using fullscreen everywhere
03:11:09LloreanSo all known bugs exposed to the suer by or caused by the patch are fixed?
03:11:20kugelthe former
03:11:21LloreanOkay, so they should still be fixed.
03:11:33LloreanYou shouldn't introduce user-visible problems intentionally
03:11:36kugelsure they ought to be fixed
03:11:40JdGordonnot nesscesarily
03:11:59kugelbut I'm not really keen on creating a giant patch, which is unsyncable
03:12:02JdGordon.. they need to be fixed, but not in the one commit... especially if they show up becuase of the patch
03:12:18LloreanThey need to be fixed before the patch is committed, if the patch is going to expose them to users.
03:12:40LloreanOtherwise, in a practical (user-visible sense) you're intentionally introducing bugs.
03:12:46LloreanYou know they're there.
03:12:54kugelwhich leads to the question why we even do releases? or why we warn users before installing a current build
03:13:00LloreanIf you want "wider" testing, create an unsupported build with the patch like we've done with other patches, so people can help test it
03:13:02JdGordonno... kugel needs to be ready to fix them as they show up... and ideally have fix patches ready... but there is leeway
03:13:06LloreanDon't use the SVN build to test known buggy code.
03:13:14LloreanJdGordon: he knows they're there already, though.
03:13:29LloreanJdGordon: It's not an issue of "there may be problems" but rather "there are already problems" according to what he said
03:13:58kugeland really, the "bugs" (which are in svn), *only* show up if you actually use the custom vp. not if you use cabbiev2 or some other "normal" theme
03:14:09Lloreankugel: Which means your patch is what exposes them to users.
03:14:52LloreanIf you can fix them once they're in SVN, surely you can *try* to fix them with a test build before you commit.
03:14:55kugelthe thing that makes me said is just, that the patch is rotting in a nearly commitable state, but bugs in svn are holding it back. and fixin all bugs in svn before comimting is next to impossible
03:14:56JdGordonit depends on the bugs which show up
03:15:07JdGordonI'd actually be more inclined to have them fixed before the custom patch goes in
03:15:12Lloreankugel: If the bugs can't be fixed, we shouldn't commit the patch in the first place.
03:15:29kugelI'm not saying they can't be fixed
03:15:32*JdGordon disagrees
03:15:38Lloreankugel: You said "it's next to impossible"
03:15:39kugelI'm saying catching all is very hard
03:15:41Unhelpfulsurely fixing the *known* ones is svn is possible?
03:15:46Lloreankugel: Fix the KNOWN ones
03:16:14UnhelpfulLlorean only seems to be saying that you ought to fix the ones you *know* about before committing. if more show up then, fix *those* as they come
03:16:15kugelI know off two
03:16:15LloreanMy whole point has been - don't commit a patch that exposes users to known bugs.
03:16:19kugelthose I can fix
03:16:30LloreanSurely this is a fairly simple policy to understand - we don't intentionally make Rockbox seem to be more buggy.
03:16:53kugelNo, and I understand that. And I agree to that policy
03:17:01LloreanWell that's what I said in my very first statement.
03:17:10LloreanAre there any known bugs, if so they should be fixed.
03:18:16kugelbut my current wps rework already fixed like more than the half of the outstanding bugs, which was definitely a good thing to do proir comitting (and I even did that with regards to that patch)
03:18:49JdGordonkugel: this is why you dont test so much... just fix the bugs as they get identified :D
03:18:58LloreanJdGordon: Please, don't even joke about that
03:19:17Lloreankugel: "I've fixed some of them" isn't a reason to expose bugs you know about but otherwise wouldn't affect users.
03:20:10kugelJdGordon: ;)
03:20:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:20:28kugelLlorean: once more, I said "consider" not "do"
03:20:50JdGordonthe whole point of the 3 month release cycle is to say that svn is possibly broken, use that build if you have problems....
03:20:53kugeland I repeat, I agree to the policy to fix known bugs before committing. That's good, really
03:21:23kugelbut then, I don't want to wait 1 or 2 month just to find more bugs if we have a stable release cycle
03:21:34Lloreankugel: "consider doing" means you might do it, so I still have reason to speak against it.
03:22:00Lloreankugel: And the stable release cycle still doesn't mean we should introduce user-visible problems intentionally
03:22:03kugelsure, and that's nice. I'm just making sure we don't missunderstand :)
03:22:15JdGordonkugel: what sort of bugs are we talking about anyway?
03:22:25LloreanIf it can be fixed in 1-2 months, then fix it THEN introduce it. Not the other order around
03:22:30LloreanWHY is it always such a rush with you?
03:22:48kugelJdGordon: set_int/_bool (which you said they should be deprecated anyway) and splashes
03:23:10JdGordonLlorean: you work on a dozen patches at a time with no movement and then you'll understand why it looks like a rush...
03:23:27JdGordonremind me
03:24:17kugelthe former use the custom vp (because of using NULL), which is weird if you used the custom vp before (see pictureflow with my patch). the latter draws behind the custom vp, which doesn't cleared properly, but that also appears in svn (e.g.g while rebuilding the datanbase)
03:24:43LloreanJdGordon: If he's unwilling to fix the bugs before he commits, why on Earth should I be willing to believe he'll put in the time to do it *after* he commits when the "desire to commit" is no longer a reason to get it done?
03:24:56 Quit ZyL0R ("( :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: )")
03:25:07LloreanHe clearly doesn't want to do the work, or he'd just go and do it so that he can commit it.
03:25:19LloreanWhy even make excuses to commit it first, otherwise?
03:25:32*JdGordon takes this to -commy
03:26:22kugelLlorean: seriously, I thought we have cleared up that I'm very willing to fix known bugs before
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03:27:16 Part cxo ("Leaving")
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03:30:12JdGordonkugel: "the former" ?
03:31:04JdGordonthe latter?
03:33:00kugel /splashf
03:33:11 Join kronflux [0] (n=8eb149c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:34:17JdGordonso the problem is that still not all screens are setup for viewports... which has been in a semi-done state for how many months now?
03:38:38 Quit kronflux ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
03:39:38kugelJdGordon: all screens are pretty much done
03:39:45kugelexcept for statusbar and some plugins
03:40:40 Join lucent [0] (i=lucent@unaffiliated/shadows)
03:40:46JdGordonif they were done there shouldnt be a problem
03:41:22kugelJdGordon: the problem with set_int is, that this is a wrapper for option_screen (which takes a parent and itself calls do_menu), set_int doesn't take a a parent
03:41:57*JdGordon hasnt looked at this code in mnths...
03:42:08JdGordoncan we finally deprecate set_int?
03:42:20JdGordonor what? just fix it to work with the viewport?
03:42:28kugelyou once said they ought to be deprecated, which is why I didn't really look into set_int recently
03:42:44kugelnot sure if we can deprecate it
03:42:54kugelwhat should be the replacement?
03:43:07JdGordonif its just a wrapper for option_screen....
03:43:16lucentkugel: hey if you would like an 8gb fuze tester, I can set up a build environment and do that this weekend. Let me know if/what needs a look-see
03:43:37kugelwe could do a macro, which always does "parent", or force to use option screen directly, or (temporary) have a parent parameter
03:44:13JdGordonmacros are nasty
03:44:15kugellucent: there's a patch against the <1GB problem, I think it has only been tested on 4GB devices so far
03:44:18 Quit lymeca ("KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo")
03:44:26kugelJdGordon: for plugins, I meant
03:44:35JdGordonwait... this is probably because you're using a custom_vp system i disagree with yeah?
03:44:36 Join jordan` [0] (
03:44:40kugelif you have an idea how to nicely replace it
03:44:47JdGordonplugins cant use macros
03:44:51lucentkugel: wonderful, I will set up a build environment and test this
03:44:54kugelsure they can
03:45:54kugelthe "fix" I have in mind is to actually receive to last used viewport. and make sure that every screen sets its parent before returning
03:46:35JdGordonwhats the patch number?
03:46:49*JdGordon needs to have a look and probably grumble about your implementation :D
03:47:11kugeloh sure, I'd love some opinions about it
03:47:35JdGordonah yuck... big patch :p
03:48:13kugelnot big at all
03:48:37JdGordonah yes.. looks like its about the same as what i remember
03:48:53kugelmost changes in viewport.c, trying to adapt the viewportmanager and event system
03:49:09JdGordonmy feeling is that if a "custom vp" is set then EVERY screen should use it... i.e passing NULL to stuff would use that viewport
03:49:20kugelthat's what being done
03:49:24JdGordonif something really ants the whole screen then it has to be "difficult" for them to do it
03:49:26kugelhence set_int uses it
03:49:33JdGordonthen why is there problems?
03:50:05kugelthe problem is if do_menu used fullscreen before (which seems common to several plungins)
03:50:16kugeldo_menu is fullscreen, set_int isn't
03:50:58kugelattach the patch, run pictureflow and change the zoom
03:51:13kugelbut use a custom vp theme, you'll see what I mean
03:51:48DarkSpectrumargh i cant get the conditional WPS tag for volume to work, does anyone have an example, the one on the wiki is not very descriptive
03:52:27 Quit KBH ()
03:52:41kugelDarkSpectrum: download here
03:53:02kugellucent: would be nice if you comment on the scrollwheel and its acceleration implementation
03:53:09 Quit jordan`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:53:23lucentkugel: can do.
03:53:25DarkSpectrumkugul, which theme there has the example?
03:53:29 Quit ultrasonic (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:53:44kugelDarkSpectrum: wide cabboe
03:55:22DarkSpectrumheh that tag looks exactly like the one i'm allready useing, except i wish to use more then 10 images
03:55:45kugelJdGordon, Llorean: Also, I'm still thinking about changing the syntax before committing. the wps uses a pipte ( | ) for separatin the viiewport parameters, my patch uses a comma
03:55:52DarkSpectrumCurrent volume in decibels (dB). Can also be used in a conditional: %?pv<Mute|...|0 dB|Above 0 dB>
03:55:59DarkSpectrumthats what i'm interested in
03:56:09DarkSpectrumhow do i write the actual line though?
03:56:21kugellinuxstb said a comma would be appropriate some time ago, but I'd like to keep it "in line" with general viewport'ing
03:56:25DarkSpectrumlike if V>13db do this image
03:56:37Lloreankugel: Where are these parameters stored?
03:57:30LloreanFor the cfg?
03:58:03JdGordonkugel: a comma is more readable in the .cfg but either would be fine imo
03:58:19JdGordonim going for a drive... ill look over the patch tonight if i can bothered and leave a comment
03:59:38kugelLlorean: yea
04:00:12kugelthe wps uses |, I'd rather have every viewport using the same separator, then using different ones all over the place
04:00:46DarkSpectrumkugel: my bad i had a typo in my wps i wasnt seeing, thanks for the help though :)
04:01:05kugelgiven the possiblity that radio screen takes a vp too, or other screens too; in the far future
04:01:15kugeland I implement a general viewport parsing funtion
04:01:35DarkSpectrumyeah radio really needs it's own theme IMO
04:02:00kugelthe gigabeat s has RDS feautres
04:02:03kugelfeatures too
04:03:45DarkSpectrumthat is kick ass, didnt know portable players had that
04:04:17DarkSpectrumdo the sansa's have that also, just not implimented?
04:05:28kugelno, they dont
04:06:38DarkSpectrumi have one resuest for wps, i wish it didnt crap out on a single error, but display what does work and just notify of an error
04:07:21 Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
04:07:44LloreanDarkSpectrum: You can test your WPS on the simulator first.
04:08:06LloreanIt gives you more information if you tell it to, but there's not a good reason to include that code in the player version of Rockbox.
04:08:17LloreanIt helps keep the RAM use down
04:08:22DarkSpectrumthats what i do, but with one single error in it, it just diaplys the default wps
04:08:52kugelyou need −−debug-wps or somethin
04:09:15LloreanDarkSpectrum: So don't leave errors in them.
04:09:43Unhelpfulyou could also use checkwps, which provides reasonable error reports
04:09:45LloreanDarkSpectrum: Or use WPSes from the official theme site, that (generally) are tested in advance.
04:09:57DarkSpectrumlol i'm not, but it makes it easier to design if it would just display and notify of errrors
04:10:21LloreanDo all your testing on the simulator then
04:10:26LloreanIt's faster to test and design with the use of one anyway
04:10:34LloreanOr, as Unhelpful said, use checkwps
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04:11:02LloreanEven if it did give error reports, testing on the player would basically be the slowest way to do it.
04:11:21DarkSpectrumtrue enough i guess
04:11:46Unhelpfulalso, screenshots are far easier on sim, since they just get their own key
04:12:19lucentkugel: patch for sansa 1gb issue?
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04:13:36*DarkSpectrum is just tryin to make as many themes for the C200 as possible and is getting braindead in the process
04:14:20lucentgrateful for a link, thanks
04:15:01kugellucent: btw, it's sad but true, I couldn't make much use of your clip
04:15:22kugelI'm having heavy filesystem problems, particularly within rockbox
04:16:02kugelthe OF doesn't seem to be so picky, but rockbox mosty crashes, and both linux and windows report errors
04:16:20kugeland that's just with wriiting the config.cfg once
04:16:55lucentyikes! that hardware is just slightly less capable than I'd expect rockbox to function on
04:17:33kugelI haven
04:17:41kugelI haven't such problems with my fuze
04:18:02DarkSpectrumoh yeah i had another question, on the sansa E200, how do i disable usb battery charging? i've put "usb charging: off" in the config and that doesnt work
04:18:23*flyback rebuilds a dell gx150 with a p3-700 to use as a embedded device programming/debug box since his duron 1300 board is shot and unstable
04:19:04lucent700mhz ouch, time for coffee when doing a compile
04:19:05LloreanDarkSpectrum: You can't. Why do you want to?
04:19:17kugelJdGordon: any opinion on the set_int one?
04:19:40DarkSpectrumi dont want it to charge the way i use it, only recieve external power
04:21:10LloreanDarkSpectrum: Why don't you want it to charge?
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04:22:02DarkSpectrumthe way i use it and how often it powers up via external i dont want my battery to get shot for being charged so much without being used
04:22:22LloreanIt won't overcharge your battery.
04:23:04Unhelpfulthe charging code will stop before overcharge, and if you don't overcharge/overdrain your battery, age is probably a larger factor than charge cycles, anyway.
04:23:13DarkSpectrumi would hope so but the rockbox charger charges it for at least 5 minutes every time it gets tured on even when the battery is not used at all
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04:29:30lucenttar: ./rbdev-dl/binutils-2.16.1.tar.bz2: Cannot open: No such file or directory
04:29:31lucentls -lh ./rbdev-dl/binutils-2.16.1.tar.bz2
04:29:32lucent-rw-r−−r−− 1 eshattow eshattow 12M 2009-03-26 21:20 ./rbdev-dl/binutils-2.16.1.tar.bz2
04:29:36*lucent ?
04:31:21lucentAh, it doesn't like relative paths
04:31:36lucentgive it fully qualified pathnames and it works
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05:03:50*flyback is going to start selling, giving, trade or just recycling off all his shitr
05:04:32scorche|shflyback: once again...rockbox related stuff in #rockbox...non-rockbox related stuff, in #rockbox-community
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05:07:25kugelCooC: hi dude
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05:16:42lucentgrr.... does rockboxdev call itself?
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05:18:58ParadoxGHi. I'm a student at the University of Alberta, just thought I'd introduce myself. I'm applying for the Google summer of code for RockBox and just had some questions.
05:19:17LloreanParadoxG: Feel free to ask. :)
05:19:25lucentnevermind, it's just hosed
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05:19:46lucentmutli-arch toolchain building can never succeed because of the way it is written now
05:19:47ParadoxGWill I be able to test anything I write if I have an Ipod nano 3gen?
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05:20:02LloreanRockbox doesn't run on that.
05:20:10LloreanThe list of supported players is on the front page of the site.
05:20:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:20:41LloreanThere's a pc-side program called the "simulator" which allows some limited testing on a PC, but no hardware is emulated so it has a very limited range.
05:21:06*lucent swears
05:21:14lucentwho broke
05:21:25Lloreanlucent: There's an SVN changelog.
05:22:07kugellucent: what's wrong
05:22:11kugelI touched it recently
05:22:37lucentkugel: if you do multiple archs, it only builds the first and then finds the builddir, so it quits
05:22:46kugelare you sure?
05:23:11lucentbuildone() checks for the builddir
05:23:21lucentso um, ...
05:25:06kugellucent: patches are welcome :(
05:25:07 Quit CooC ("User disconnected")
05:25:11kugel:) too *
05:25:13lucentmaybe there's just a problem with braces or syntax
05:25:41kugelI'm fairly sure I build multiply cross compiler with it
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05:26:29lucentthat's not even possible, looking at
05:26:54ParadoxGIf I get one of the Ipod's that are supported, is that enough to do basic testing on?
05:27:33LloreanDepending on what you're working on, even the simulators may be enough for "basic" testing
05:27:59ParadoxGI'm thinking of doing the WMA Professional codec port
05:28:41lucentkugel: cleardir () must be failing on my instance
05:28:55lucentwait, not exactly true
05:29:06LloreanParadoxG: After the basic code is done, there would be real benefit to have a physical player to verify things work on, and/or do optimizations on, yes.
05:29:14lucentkugel: cleardir () forgets to delete the directory itself
05:29:16kugellucent: what you building on?
05:29:38Unhelpfulfor codec testing, i'd say that at some point, you need a target. there are too many things that will work just fine on sim, and break or be too slow on target.
05:30:38Unhelpfulx86 will not trap misaligned access, which will crash on targets. if you use FP code, i expect gcc will probably cheerfully build with soft floats when you do target builds, and you'll wonder why it's unusable ;)
05:30:55lucentkugel: shouldn't "if test -d $builddir; then" be something like if test -d $builddir/build-gcc || test -d $builddir/build-binu || test -d $builddir/gcc || test -d $builddir/binutils*; then" ?
05:31:13ParadoxGThanks, I'll have to find a supported player to test on.
05:31:32lucentkugel: the problem is that cleanup at the end of each build does create a builddir, but does not remove it, and will not succeed unless the directory did not exist before
05:32:04lucentkugel: I can't remember how it was back when this all was working correctly
05:37:09lucentI don't understand what the authors of this thing want anyways
05:38:11Lloreanlucent: You could always post proper bug reports, if you're not planning on fixing it yourself and posting a patch.
05:39:06lucentI intend to write a patch, if I get an idea of what kind of behavior it should be exhibitiing
05:39:46lucentwhy go to all the trouble of rm-fr'ing each named subdir
05:40:01lucentwhy not just rm-fr the $builddir for cleanup
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05:58:31eaeEvening folks.
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06:03:52eaeAre there any devs still working on the iPod 5.5 gen release?
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06:05:06Unhelpfulthere are devs working on rockbox in general. i'm sure some of the work has been specific to that target, but i'd have to go through our revision log to see what's been going on there.
06:05:17scorcheeae: what do you mean?...the last release came out 3 days ago...
06:05:34eaeOh, nvm then :)
06:05:56eaeAre there any plans to implement timeouts for loading tracks?
06:06:47grdxyxydoes rockbox support cuesheet for sansa e200?i know the core support it, and i found the option, but it does not works fine
06:06:59eaeSometimes I select a new song and it says loading forever. It finishes playing the current song and then nothing.
06:07:26scorchegrdxyxy: and how are you using it?
06:07:31eaeUsually you know in a few seconds whether or not the song will ever load, so I feel like a timeout would be helpful.
06:07:33scorcheeae: odd...what sort of file?
06:08:00eaemp3 I believe. Although I think it happens with flac, too.
06:08:04Unhelpfulthat doesn't really sound like something that should be *able* to happen...
06:08:23eaeI happens to me maybe once ever 50 times I select a new song.
06:08:36eaeBut the only way to fix it is to reboot.
06:08:36scorchehave you performed a disk check?
06:08:46Unhelpfuli have to wonder if your disk is sticking on spinup, sometimes.
06:09:08grdxyxyscorche:i just open the can parse the sheet into list,but when i open one of the list,nothing happens
06:09:29eaeI'm quite certain there is something wrong with the disk, but I can't really afford to get a new one. It's really hard to get 5.5 gen iPods anyway these days.
06:09:37Unhelpfuland if *that* is the cause, rockbox can't play any *other* track instead, either.
06:10:26eaeNot sure if I follow completely. So you're saying that aborting load and trying to load something else would not help?
06:10:50eaeKeep in mind that Rockbox is able to play the current song until the end though.
06:10:55Unhelpfulif the disk is not spinning up, then no, you can't load something else, either.
06:11:17Unhelpfulyes, well, the current song is in memory, the new one you're adding that's not loaded yet isn't.
06:11:29eaeThe entire song is in memory?
06:12:03eaeSure, that makes sense.
06:12:17Unhelpful*probably*, yes, rockbox tries to let the disk stop for as long as possible, then tries to load as much data into memory as possible when it spins up the disk
06:12:21scorchegrdxyxy: tyr playing the audio file
06:13:07eaeSo if the problem is this spin-up issue you are talking about, there is nothing to do but to reboot?
06:13:12grdxyxyscorche:yes,i tried that.the audio file can be played
06:13:24eaeAnd there's nothing I can do either but get a HDD for it? :/
06:13:38eae*new HDD
06:13:48scorcheand are there track markers on the progressbar?
06:14:05Unhelpfulreally, if there's something wrong with the HDD, you should be looking for a new one, rather than asking for a hacky workaround. broken devices are just that, broken.
06:15:20eaeI mean if there was a hacky workaround I could try to make it myself, but it sounds like there's nothing that can be done software wise if I understand you correctly.
06:16:21Unhelpfuli don't see what you can expect to do if the drive isn't responding. does the same song work again after you reset it? that is, the song that was failing before?
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06:16:41eaeYes, the songs do work after reboot.
06:17:33eaeAnother question. Are there any plans to try to use the iPod built in video processing capabilities? I am under the impression that Rockbox does not use this at all.
06:18:24Unhelpfulit doesn't, and we don't have the documentation needed to do so.
06:18:42eaeWhat about Xvid, any plans for that?
06:20:31Unhelpfulnot worthwhile on most of our targets. the gigabeats have a fair amount of CPU muscle to throw around, but i don't think xvid is going to be very practical on the ipod video's 80MHz dual-core
06:21:42Unhelpfulactually, some of the other models with the same core and much smaller screens might stand a chance
06:23:59eaempeg requires less processing power then you're saying?
06:25:01LloreanExactly. With XViD you'd basically have to sacrifice frame rate to free up disk space
06:25:06LloreanYou can already do that with MPEG2 anyway.
06:25:24eaeInteresting, ok, that's fair.
06:25:43LloreanOn a few players it would make sense, and I imagine in the far future someone will want it enough to do the work. But nobody's stepped forward yet.
06:26:26Unhelpfulthe gigabeats could probably handle xvid. the S could probably handle avc if we can learn *enough* about the IPU, since the IPU can do a fair part of the heavy lifting.
06:27:10eaeSay I decided to get a replacement HDD for my iPod. What are my limitations?
06:27:13LloreanUnhelpful: Doesn't it handle AVC in the OF?
06:27:23Unhelpfulthe other thing is, you have to transcode *anyway*, unless your video is already 320x240, or whatever the size needed for your device is. mpegplayer doesn't scale, and reasonable scaling can't be done quickly enough in software anyway.
06:27:59eaeWell, no, that's the thing.
06:27:59LloreanUnhelpful: Or at least, the chipset docs mention being able to offload a significant amount of the work decoding AVC somehow, I think
06:28:19eaeThere are plenty of things you can download that are 320x240 but in Xvid.
06:28:45eaeNow instead, you have to get the original sized ones and transcode them yourself.
06:29:16Unhelpfulyou could get the 320x240 and transcode. it will be faster than transcoding from a giant-sized version.
06:30:21UnhelpfulLlorean: the product sheet claims 30%, mostly via hardware loop filter. it *also* claims hardware deblocking for mpeg-2/4, i suspect this is done with exactly the same filter, and that the deblock filter is just designed to the specs AVC states
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06:31:16Unhelpfuli believe the claimed format support for the beast itself is wmv
06:31:36Unhelpfuli'll let you know what it reports as soon as i get the OF booted here :)
06:31:56eaeUnhelpful, but do you really want to transcode from what is already 320x240. I feel like you'll get great quality loss.
06:32:33Unhelpfulyou'll have to scale some larger video down to that size *before* encoding.
06:33:43eaeHas anyone tried replacing the HDD on a 5/5.5 gen iPod? How difficult/tool intensive is it?
06:34:43eaeI'm reading this guide about it, but I'm sure it's different doing it the first time based off of a guide than if you're a guy who does it all the time and writes these guides.
06:37:57Lloreaneae: This is really the channel for discussing Rockbox. The hardware modification is basically not related to the firmware on it. Maybe you should attempt to contact the author of the guide you're reading?
06:38:49eaeI'm aware of that. This just seems like a good place on IRC to find a person who might know.
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06:39:29Lloreaneae: This channel is logged, and we strongly encourage people to stay on the channel's topic (being Rockbox). If you have discussion that's not about Rockbox there's a channel mentioned in the channel topic for such things.
06:39:54eaeFair point.
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06:41:03FelixggenestI have a Sansa Fuze 4gb ... can I put RockBox into?
06:41:25LloreanFelixggenest: The list of supported players is on the front page of the site.
06:41:47LloreanThough development work is progressing on the Fuze, it's not in a fully usable state and unless you plan to do development, you probably shouldn't use it yet.
06:42:21FelixggenestLlorean : Fuze is not there, I knew. You just answer my question, thanks ;)
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07:20:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:22:07grdxyxystrange,i put the flac file and the cuesheet in the same directory,but when i play the audio file,it cannot parse into list
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07:24:23grdxyxyby the way,i use 3.2 for sansa
07:25:19LloreanHave you turned on Cuesheet Support?
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07:30:27grdxyxyLlorean: of course, it is on by default
07:30:59Lloreangrdxyxy: Did you check that it's on?
07:32:11grdxyxyLlorean: omg,it is not on, i am sorry
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07:32:45grdxyxyLlorean: now it is ok,thanks
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07:39:20BigBambiI'm pretty sure it isn't on by default as it would use RAM for those of us that don't use cue sheets
07:42:17B4gderI like rasher's HUGE installer button
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07:49:25LloreanMaybe we should just use canvas and make it fill up a certain percentage of any browser window
07:53:50*B4gder adds committer #71
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08:02:11BigBambiB4gder: Excellent!
08:03:03BigBambiAlthough I do think that B4gder's counting is highly suspect - the last four or so people have been 70 or 71 :)
08:03:13B4gderhaha, yeah
08:03:22B4gderit's a matter of what file I count lines in
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08:15:15linuxstbB4gder: Why does Rockbox require real names? ;)
08:16:08B4gderI know, I've just focused on other work
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08:20:49amiconnrasher: Several ipods could use either USB or firewire. At least on the 3rd gen firewire even has an advantage
08:21:27amiconnAll supported ipods except the Video and Nano support firewire
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09:50:45casainholinuxstb: hello :-) −− did you had change to review the Lyre bootloader patch?
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10:48:15B4gder"very big beershop nearby" ... now that's a major selling point! ;-)
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10:51:00*B4gder thinks Ghent sounds like a fine devcon spot
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10:52:43rasherSomeone unbiased should pick one:
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10:53:41DarkSpectrumi like the very bottom left
10:53:42peturrow 2, column 1
10:54:15peturmaybe without the 'utility'
10:54:38Zagorperhaps they should have an id each?
10:55:02B4gderrow 3 column 2 (1-based) is my fav
10:55:37DarkSpectrum3-2 is good also
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10:55:59B4gdermaybe have them all and just randomize? B)
10:59:36DarkSpectrumrasher: use button 3-2 but also put the current version # on it maybe
11:00:02B4gdernah, no version number in it
11:00:49peturbest if it just mentions 'RockBox' and 'Installer' imho
11:01:20B4gderI agree
11:01:39Zagorimpressively detailed gsoc application from wangxiang68
11:02:47DarkSpectrum screens[i].update_rect(0,
11:02:47DarkSpectrum STATUSBAR_HEIGHT + fh*(top_of_screen + 4),
11:02:47DarkSpectrum screens[i].getwidth(), fh);
11:02:47DBUGEnqueued KICK DarkSpectrum
11:02:47DarkSpectrum screens[i].set_viewport(NULL);
11:02:47DarkSpectrum }
11:02:48***Alert Mode level 1
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11:02:53DarkSpectrumoops sorry
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12:07:36rasher and
12:09:15bubsybtw, please don't abuse drop shadow :|
12:09:18moosN or P here, nice looking btw
12:09:44bubsyyup, some nice buttons :)
12:10:33rasherbubsy: is that drop shadow abuse?
12:10:43rasherA bit, I guess.
12:10:47bubsyC, Q and R
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12:11:03rasherAh yes, and S, U
12:11:14bubsyyep, a little bit
12:11:29bubsyit's a nice idea, but I personally would've turned down the opacity on the drop shadow a bit :)
12:11:48CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
12:11:48*rasher doesn't like drop shadow *at all* on text
12:11:56bubsyand on C and Q, I would've put the shadow a little bit closer to the text
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12:37:30enriqdoes rockbox on sansa e250 support the radio?
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12:38:44enriqand record from radio
12:41:04moosyes too
12:41:53moosyou can check our fine manual availiable online:
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12:46:17dionoeahowdy. Would something like: continue playback of what's already buffered when switching to USB mode be possible? Or does the USB stack need some of the audio buffer to work?
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13:14:11gevaertsdionoea: it does, yes
13:14:57dionoeaonly some of it or all of it? (I guess that depends on the target)
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13:22:23gevaertscurrently the software uses up to 128k, but I want to look into adding caching
13:23:12gevaertsactually 32k, but FS #10015 makes that 128k, and that one will go in once it's done
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13:26:27dionoeagevaerts: ok. So that would still leave quite a lot of audio buffer. I'll see if I can hack a proof of concept
13:26:34LloreanI think continuing playback of buffered audio during USB mode is probably not the best idea ever anyway. You'd need to make it rebuffer before going into USB mode for it to be consistent, and then we'd probably get bug reports pretty regularly about how it "just stops playing eventually when USB is connected"
13:28:14dionoeaCould also be nice to keep radio playback working when connected to IRC (I unfortunately don't own a device with an FM tuner, except the ipod video but that's in the remote so you couldn't use it with usb anyway)
13:28:59BigBambiRadio did stay playing on connection last time I tried (which was ages ago)
13:29:10dionoeaOoh, nice :)
13:30:06BigBambiI thought it was a bug actually, but use the radio only rarely and forgot about it :)
13:31:49dionoeathat's a nasty typo
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13:33:20BigBambidionoea: It did make me chuckle a bit - what kind of bug causes the radio to stop working when you connect to IRC :)
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13:50:14kugelanyone against ?
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13:55:05linuxstbkugel: "Tracklock" isn't a word...
13:56:24kugelbut it's descriptive, imo
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13:56:44BigBambikugel: But it still isn't a word
13:56:46BigBambikugel: "Prevent skipping" perhaps?
13:56:59linuxstbDo I understand that you're adding a new "track lock" option? Your description makes it sound like you're just rearranging existing options.
13:57:12kugeldoes it have to be a word? or can we also create new ones that matches the functionality nicely?
13:57:32kugellinuxstb: the task title says everything
13:57:33linuxstbNo, we're not in the business of inventing new words...
13:57:36BigBambikugel: I think we shouldn't invent words
13:57:44BigBambikugel: Or "Enable track locking"
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13:57:57linuxstbkugel: So what's the answer to my question?
13:58:19kugelit separates the track lock out of Skip length
13:58:38kugelyes, it re-arranges existing options, in that regard
13:59:48Lloreanlinuxstb: Currently, the "skip length" setting also locks you within the track. If 47 second remain, and you attempt to skip with the length set to 1 minute, you don't leave the track. You just can't do it.
14:00:06LloreanYou have to either wait, or judging from the comment, use a key combo
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14:01:54linuxstbkugel: I can only see from your patch the addition of a new option - hence my confusion when you say you are rearranging options.
14:02:22Lloreanlinuxstb: it's splitting one compound option into two simpler ones.
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14:05:34kugelso, I'll go with "Track Locking"?
14:06:24*Llorean thinks "Track Lock" isn't a descriptive name since you can still leave the track.
14:06:24*B4gder suggests "We Won't Let You Out Of the Track HAHAHAHA"
14:07:21LloreanBut I don't really have a better suggestion.
14:07:45linuxstb"Prevent track skipping" ? (or just "Prevent skipping", as Bigbambi suggested) ?
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14:07:47B4gderso what does it do on skip? pause at the end?
14:08:02gevaertsSticky Track?
14:08:09B4gderah it just disables the button basically?
14:08:17evilnick"Prevent Skipping" sounds like something to do with changing buffers, like on a portable CD player.
14:08:26LloreanB4gder: I think it should pause at the end, personally, to meet with the "goals' of the original function
14:08:46kugelonly if you'd skip. If you have skip length set, and enough time is left, you jump withtin the track
14:08:54LloreanB4gder: What it does is prevent skip *if* skip would leave the track. If you have skip length set to 1:00 and you have 1:47 left, after one press you have 0:47, after the next nothing happens.
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14:09:03kugelLlorean: which original function did pause at the end?
14:09:12Lloreankugel: I said "goals" of the original function
14:09:27*kugel can't remember of that goal
14:09:29B4gderah yes, I thought about the case when skip length is not used, so it would skip the entire song
14:09:30LloreanThe whole reason the current skip length doesn't leave the track was "it's hard to rewind back if you've left the track"
14:09:38kugelpausing at the end is buggy with the current playback engine anyway
14:10:12enriqwhat's the probability of getting to run rockbox into a generic/chinese mp4 (based on atj2091n afaik)
14:10:18LloreanB4gder: With the new feature if skip length is set to say 5 minutes, you can skip over entire musical tracks, and use it for coarse seeking in long spoken word tracks, without changing an option
14:10:27B4gderenriq: rockbox doesn't work randomly
14:10:36B4gderenriq: you need to make it work
14:11:15B4gderand the ATJ chips have no public docs afaik
14:11:23B4gderhm or did they?
14:11:40Zagor"skip beyond track" ?
14:12:25enriqB4gder: Ok, my question is... how feasible is the task. I'm a developer, but without experience in this field. What are the steps to follow? I deduct from you saying: 1) know the hardware; 2) find the spects of the chips...
14:12:37LloreanZagor: "Skip to next track"?
14:13:21enriqlinuxstb: thanks!
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14:19:28funmanAMS answered today about my AS3536 request, they gave me a NDA to send by snail mail
14:19:51funmanI asked them if they could send me as well the AS3530 & AS3531 documents and wait their answer.
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14:20:32kugelfunman: saratoga said he also found armv5 instructions in the as3525 ones
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14:41:27pyro_maniac1kugel: can you give me some input for the samsung device?
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14:43:37kugelpyro_maniac1: what input?
14:44:26pyro_maniac1kugel: where can i continue? what worked?
14:47:03pyro_maniac1kugel: can i test or what can i do? i don't what to do something twice
14:48:02kugelI'm waiting for low_light for some code
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14:51:18pyro_maniac1so i wait for input too
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15:39:52PaulJamis there a convention what settings to include (or not to include) in the theme.cfg file?
15:40:26n1syes, it should only contain theme related settings
15:41:09pyro_maniac1who administrates the webside?
15:41:23PaulJamis the scrollbar setting theme related? (the AW140 theme for 220x176 disables the scrollbar)
15:41:23n1spyro_maniac1: Bagder/Zagor mainly
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15:41:44pyro_maniac1Badger: ping
15:42:01GodEaterpyro_maniac1, check your spelling, it's "Bagder" not "Badger" :)
15:42:06n1sPaulJam: i think so, is it saved if you chose to save a theme cfg from inside rockbox?
15:42:33Zagorpyro_maniac1: what do you need?
15:42:41pyro_maniac1GodEater: oh thanks :-D
15:43:03pyro_maniac1Bagder: ping
15:43:16GodEaterpyro_maniac1, also, pay attention, Zagor is here!
15:43:43B4gderit's generally better just to ask
15:43:44kkurbjundoes anyone know if there is a way to do something like an extern unsigned long x; in a header that is also included in a pure assembly file (like crt0.S)? I am getting a message along these lines: "Error: bad instruction `extern unsigned long x'". I don't need the extern on the assembly files so I was thinking of some sort of conditional #if defined(, but I'm not sure what would go in the parenthesis.
15:43:54PaulJamn1s: no, it isn't saved.
15:44:35n1sPaulJam: hmm, then i don't know :)
15:45:10pyro_maniac1ok, so i have to mantion, that the link to the theme side is missing in recent.shtml and when i open a mail on the front page
15:45:39*GodEater wonders how pyro_maniac1 keeps hitting the "d" key when surely he means "t".
15:46:36pyro_maniac1GodEater: i what case?
15:46:48GodEater"website" surely, not "webside" ?
15:46:48kugelkkurbjun: I'm wondering why you defined HAVE_LCD_SLEEP_SETTING
15:47:11GodEaternp, I just wondered ;)
15:47:21kkurbjunkugel, you can still read the LCD on the M:robe under some lighting conditions so I figured I'd make it an option
15:47:28kugelkkurbjun: because few lines later it says "we don't use a setting"
15:48:01kkurbjunoh, I missed that, I started without a setting
15:48:04pyro_maniac1i am not in good shape today but thats off topic ;-) but i will try to fix this problem :-D
15:48:08kkurbjunthat comment was pulled from the gigabeat
15:49:09kkurbjunI'll correct that on a later commit
15:49:13kugelkkurbjun: well, doesn't lcd_enable power off the display already?
15:50:29kugelwhat does lcd_enable on the mrobe 500, seems to be different to other targets
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15:51:48kugelkkurbjun: if the display is readable without backlight I'd recomment going the ipod'ish way (only define HAVE_LCD_SLEEP, but not HAVE_LCD_ENABLE)
15:52:18kkurbjunkugel: lcd_enable(false) is never called
15:52:25kkurbjunand it doesn't ahve a way to power it down
15:52:32kkurbjunit's the same as the gigabeat f
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15:53:14kugelkkurbjun: it seems you're using lcd_sleep to "power down" (whatever this bit does), and lcd_enable to turn it on again?
15:54:28kugelhm, I think it should be changed to use the ipod way (using lcd_wakeup for activating, and leaving HAVE_LCD_ENABLE undefined), for gigabeat f/x too it seems
15:55:05kkurbjunwhat was/is the lcd_enable define supposed to be for
15:55:18kkurbjunI agree that just having a sleep seems reasonable
15:55:42kugelturning off the lcd, without a setting, given that it can be turned on quickly again
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15:56:03kugel(turning off when the backlight is off)
15:56:15kkurbjunwe could still use the sleep and sleep_setting defines though
15:56:25kugeland sleep is rather for turning off when the delay at turning on is noticeabe
15:56:44kugelkkurbjun: yes, that's what the ipod does
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15:56:54kkurbjunoh, gotcha.. well in this case, the delay is not noticible..
15:57:07kkurbjunand I would like to have a setting
15:57:09kugelit doesn't define HAVE_LCD_ENABLE (but HAVE_LCD_SLEEP), because the display is rather transflective
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15:57:48kugelwell, the reason for a setting is a) readable without backlight or b) long delay on turning on
15:57:52*amiconn still thinks that we should never disable the display if it is transflective
15:58:23kugelamiconn: that's why the ipod has the setting. you can set it to never and have the display never inactive then
15:58:29kkurbjunthe m:robe is transflective, but barely, I can't read it in anything other than bright sunlight or a really well lit room
15:58:47amiconnThat's not transflective then
15:59:00kugelthen I don't see a reason for a setting
15:59:21kugelin very bright light the e200 display is readable too
16:00:04kkurbjunI'll mess with it later the port is not anywhere near complete
16:00:12amiconnIn very bright light all colour LCDs are readable. A real transflective LCD is readable under normal lighting conditions
16:00:20kkurbjunfor now I am leaving a setting
16:00:27kkurbjunthe OF has the option as well
16:00:50gevaertskugel: in *very* bright light, you can just about see that the c200 LCD is active. Forget about actually seeing what it shows though
16:00:56kkurbjunwell, you can see the outline of the screen in normal light
16:01:01kkurbjunI eman what is on it
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16:01:16kkurbjunbut it's not very easy to see
16:01:16l403guys, I have compiled a bootloader for MeizuM6SL and think I am supposed to send it to the device with dfu tool. I am following instructions, it does detect the device and stuff but gets stuck at sending it to the device
16:01:23kkurbjunits not quite like the gigabeat F
16:01:34kkurbjunthat definately could not be read or seen in normal light
16:02:57amiconnWell, most devices with a plain transmissive LCD disable it when switching off the light, and then you can't see anything of course
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16:08:39domonokyrasher: it seems something is broken on the theme site. rbutil cant get any themes anymore. See: (e200 screensize)
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16:11:33kkurbjunlet me try asking my question another way: when the assembler is running on a .h file is there a define similar to __GNUC__ that I could use to detect that this is not a C file including the header
16:18:05amiconnYou can check #if(n)def __ASSEMBLER__ . I did this in apps/codecs/demac/libdemac/demac_config.h
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16:18:38kkurbjunamiconn: great, thanks
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16:27:04l403gevaerts: hi, could you help me out with the problem above if your not busy?
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16:28:14gevaertsl403: I'm at work. Also, I haven't touched my meizus in months...
16:29:14*domonoky wonders how this SQL statement in themesite.class.php works. In the rbutil case it will produce a ".... WHERE 1 176x220 176x220 AND (....)" which seems a strange SQL WHERE statement, where is the operator ? and shouldnt this compaire 176x220 against the mainlcd entry ?
16:29:19kugelkkurbjun: I'm just saying, that you're mixing sleep and enable, which I don't really like
16:29:51l403gevaerts: ok, I'll try to ask maku when he stops by
16:31:27kkurbjunkugel: fair enough, I see your point, but I'm not going to fix it now - right now I am the only one actively working on the port so it's really not going to effect anyone else. I am trying to get code in there in the hopes that other people will get interested. At the moment from a user perspective it works exactly as expected
16:31:37kugelno problem
16:32:44*Llorean thinks "Prevent Skipping" is a very bad name for the setting.
16:32:46kugelkkurbjun: it's just that I recently tried to clean up the mess with lcd_enable and _sleep, as there was obviously some confusion. I'm just trying to keep an eye on that it's kept clean
16:33:00LloreanIt definitely doesn't prevent skipping, it just prevents track skipping.
16:33:44kugelskipping is manually changing tracks, imo
16:33:59kugelwhich it prevents. and this is what the manual reads too
16:34:19gevaertsskipping is *also*, and more commonly, missing a bit of audio because of technical problems
16:34:32kugelchanging tracks as in pressing next/prev
16:34:53Lloreankugel: Then why do we call it "Skip Length"?
16:35:08LloreanIf it's not skipping, then that setting is not setting the skip length.
16:35:55kkurbjunkugel, I gotcha, I didn't realize that you had done that work, I appreciate the heads up
16:36:08kugelwell, I wasn't accurate enough, sorry. Skipping to me is jump to some other time or track, leaving out music that would've been played
16:36:22LloreanAnd you can still skip to some other time with "Prevent Skipping" enabled
16:36:53kugelhm, yea, so it should be track skipping?
16:37:13LloreanI'd say "Prevent Track Skip" would probably be a good name (to me)
16:37:18LloreanI'm not sure how others feel about the clarity of that.
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16:38:14kugelI took BigBambi's suggestion. But track skipping sounds more accurate, indeed
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17:18:40rasherdomonoky: oh darn.. this is problematic. Any chance you could pass the target shortname instead of the screen resolution?
17:20:01domonokyyes, thats possible, but it has two drawbacks: we need a new rbutil release, and we need to make sure we use the same target names.. (for example we have different names for ipodmini, in different places, the targetnames are a mess :-) )
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17:20:44rasherProblem is we use the checkwps results to select themes now, and we can't do that if we only have a screen size, because that could be any number of targets
17:22:41kkurbjunamiconn: where did you find documentation that showed the __ASSEMBLER__ define? I would like to do something similar with the linker as well if possible
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17:25:30domonokyrasher: where is the list of targetnames in the theme site code ? i will check if we need another set of target names in rbutil :-)
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17:29:09Soap-WorkLlorean: regarding the reported post on the Last.FM-like playlist generator...
17:30:04Soap-WorkMy recent thoughts have been that a subforum dedicated to "Tools for use with the Rockbox lifestyle" ;) would better serve the community than the unsupported builds sub forum.
17:30:16rasherdomonoky: it's all in the database.. This is a bit of a pickle. They *should* match the names that tools/checkwps/ uses
17:30:33Soap-WorkPerhaps replace "Unsupported Builds" with only FS "Testing Builds"
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17:34:11domonokyrasher: then it looks like rbutil already has the correct names for this in its settings. :-) So not really a problem.. we just need to update rbutil a bit, and ofcourse change rbutil.php so it doesnt change the "res" parameter...
17:35:09rasherWell the changing of the res parameter will just be a nop - until we have a target with an x in its name :) (we don't currently, do we?)
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17:36:50domonokynot at moment..
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17:38:29rasherSo no change needed! (not serious of course)
17:39:31JdGordonSoap-Work: I agree, and im a bit surprised we dont have a rbutil forum already anyway
17:40:05domonokyoh no. the targetnames are again different: sansa e200 is called "e200" in checkwps but "sansae200" in rbutils entry for this. (but for ipodmini and h10_5gb the list matches) grr
17:41:43domonokywe have slight differences in: target filenames on the server, target names for voice, targetnames in rockbox-info, and now also for the wps.. *grr*
17:42:06domonokymaybe there are more of differences hidden somewhere :-/
17:42:11rasherit's fairly easy to adjust the theme site
17:42:32rasherJust update everything in the db to the new name, and change tools/checkwps/
17:42:56rasherMaybe there needs to be a definitive list somewhere
17:43:05rasherand we can treat nonconformance as a bug
17:43:08domonokycan you check why also doesnt return any theme ?
17:43:44domonokyyes, it would probably be good to fix this naming issues, even when we break something temporarly.
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17:44:30rasherdomonoky: ah, I get it.. we *did* need to change something
17:44:38rasherdomonoky: might as well use target= instead while we're changing things
17:45:18rasherWorks now
17:45:31rasher at least
17:46:21rasherdomonoky: Let's put a note in the status message that it doesn't work, and a new release will be out sono
17:47:35rasher"An update for Rockbox Utility is needed and will be released soon. Unfortunately this means that the theme download function currently doesn't work."?
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17:49:15evilnick"doesn't currently" is better English
17:49:52rasherAnything else?
17:50:08*domonoky just added some entrys to the changelog.
17:50:24domonokyfeel free to improve it for endusers..
17:50:28evilnickNope, and that's just a stylistic change.
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17:52:16domonokyfor the list of "officially correct targets names" i suggest the targetnames in configure. (there the sansa e200 is called e200, like in checkwps, will check why rbutils names differ
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17:52:30rasherdomonoky: That seems sensible
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18:01:35domonokyarg, the names in rbutil differs, because the are also used for rockbox zip filenames, and the buildserver uses jet another list of target names.. :-/
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18:15:56BigBambikugel: yes, I forgot the track bit :)
18:16:24rasherdomonoky: So we also need to fix the build server
18:16:48rasherdomonoky: I think this is the right way to move forward, even if it's a bit more work right now than just adding yet another list
18:18:04domonokyrasher: yes, but i think its okey todo it slowly, so i will add a list with purely the names from configure, we can then change and remove the other ones later, when its cleaned up..
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18:20:41domonokywe probably wont get around to have small deviations between the different things, for example there are more builds then "modelname" defines for example fmrecorder8mb, it has the same modelname (fmrecorder) but there are different binarys out there...
18:21:55rasherdomonoky: but does anything other than the manual download pages have those?
18:22:13rasherManual as in "download a zipfile and extract manually"
18:22:37domonokysure, rbutil needs to know and distinguish them, or it cant download the right binary.
18:23:21domonokythe same for iriver h10_5gb. there are different bootloaders for ums and mtp versions, but the main binary and of course the configure modelname is the same.
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18:30:55saratogaif that WMA pro guy comes around again, he should probably talk to me
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18:52:56bapdogquestion: are there any prebuilt AMS bootloaders available or is that a stupid question?
18:53:17*Buschel also congrats dreamlayers! ;-)
18:54:43saratogabapdog: there are not
18:55:04*domonoky has working theme installing in rbutil again.. and cleanup a bit of this target mess. Now to test if i broke something with those targets where the name differs :-)
18:56:47domonokybapdog: as the AMS sansas code is still only for devs, you have to build the bootloader yourself.
18:58:04bapdogok, gonna give it a try
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19:13:35amiconnrasher: We do have a target with an 'x' in its name...
19:13:55amiconnkkurbjun: I don't remember
19:14:47kkurbjunno worries, thanks
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19:18:02domonokyamiconn: which one ? the gigabeat F/X is called "gigabeatf" ..
19:18:07TBOL3Rockbox USB (Sansa e260) and ubuntu 9.04 still don't work, is there any way that I can help out?/
19:18:38gevaertsdomonoky: iaudio x5?
19:19:20domonokyof correct. its called "x5" :-)
19:19:40gevaertsTBOL3: I guess talk to the ubuntu people?
19:19:51amiconndomonoky: The x5
19:20:03*amiconn too laaate
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19:21:10*GodEater will test Rockbox USB and ubuntu 9.04 with his ipod
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19:22:40GodEaterworks fine
19:22:50TBOL3gevaerts: But it's only with rockbox that I have this problem.
19:23:06TBOL3I see. Have you upgraded to the beta yet?
19:23:15GodEaterbeta what ?
19:23:34TBOL3of ubuntu 9.04¸from alpha 6,
19:23:34LloreanGodEater: I've heard of difficulties with 9.10
19:23:42LloreanEr, 9.04
19:23:50LloreanBut that was Alpha 5
19:23:53TBOL39.10 isn't out yet, they're not even working on it Llorean
19:24:12TBOL3ohm, sorry..
19:24:22GodEaterdoes alpha -> beta only show up with an update-manager -d ?
19:25:02TBOL3Anyway, I was on last sunday, trying to help with this problem, and I'm still on alpha 6.
19:25:32TBOL3UGodEater: Umm... I don't see it by just going to the update manager.
19:25:39TBOL3But it's here:
19:26:00GodEaterwell I've been on jaunty since feb
19:26:06GodEaterand just keep upgrading it
19:26:12GodEaterso I'm guessing I'm on the beta by now
19:26:31*evilnick suggests -community for Ubuntu chat
19:26:58*GodEater suggest not if it's in any way rockbox related
19:27:04GodEaterwhich it currently appears to be
19:27:06TBOL3Allright, well, I'm downloading it now, I'll come on back and bug you all again if it doesn't work. Thanks!
19:29:02GodEaterwhy don't you just upgrade with update-manager ?
19:29:13GodEaterseems daft to download an entire distro again
19:30:35LloreanNo to mention you'll need to run updates anyway.
19:33:16*GodEater notes that running update-manager right now seems to want to do a distro upgrade
19:33:21GodEaterso I guess I was still on alpha
19:33:23GodEaterand am going to beta now
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19:38:59TBOL3GodEater: Because I can't update. The update manager says I can only do a partial update, which I don't want to do.
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19:39:50TBOL3Oh well, I'll still check it with the latest version. Anyway, it might be working for you because you have an ipod and not a sansa (do any of you devs know if there is a difference in how rockbox does usb between the two).
19:40:02TBOL3The other person that was having this trouble also had a sansa.
19:41:52TBOL3Oh, and it's probably unrelated, I can't get my Sansa to connect to any computer when it's booted into the OF. This started to happen when I updated the bootloader about a week ago (I updated it just now, and it still doesn't work).
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19:47:39gevaertsTBOL3: if the same code works on all non-sansa players and with all host OSes except the ubuntu/gnome combination, I think it's pretty clear that ubuntu/gnome is doing something nonstandard to break things
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19:55:29TBOL3gevaerts: Actually, I still have the problem when gnome is completely turned off. And it's only with rockbox (the OF worked until I updated the bootloader).
19:55:54TBOL3And the OF doesn't work on ANY computer, any OS.
19:55:59gevaertsTBOL3: last time you said it worked with kde. Also, was hal turned off?
19:56:34TBOL3Ummm... no I didn't, that must have been someone else. And yes, I believe I had hal turned off.
19:56:50TBOL3I don't have kde.
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19:57:10TBOL3At least not on this computer (and the ones I do, it's mostly just the qt libraries).
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19:57:37gevaertsit must have been someone else then. Anyway, can you try booting to single-user mode and trying there?
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19:58:12TheUnleettttmy H10 just said my firmware was corrupted like an hour ago.... now rockbox is loading again.... so it defeats my purpose of coming in here
19:58:40TheUnleetttthow dumb
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20:03:42TBOL3gevaerts: yes, but not now, I'm still downloading the beta, I'll install it, and see if the problem persists (hopefully it doesn't).
20:07:08*gevaerts reminds all gsoc students that it's possible to edit your proposal after submitting it (until the deadline), so there's no need to hold back until it's perfect
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20:09:11gevaertsTBOL3: I checked the logs. The kde report was from robin0800
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20:11:17TBOL3gevaerts: Ok, thanks. Maybe it's just me than somehow.
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20:11:42gevaertsTBOL3: no. He had problems in gnome, but not in kde
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20:44:15GodEaterTBOL3, what's wrong with doing a partial upgrade ?
20:44:54GodEaterI have a sansa I can test this with as well gevaerts, but I need to find what I've done with the USB cable for it first
20:45:02GodEaterI don't believe it'll make any difference though
20:45:11GodEaterthe Rockbox USB stack is the same on all PP targets isn't it ?
20:45:39gevaertsit is, yes. If it behaves differently than with an ipod it's because the host does something different
20:45:55GodEaterso I'm running the same version of the host as TBOL3 as well
20:45:57GodEaterand mine works
20:46:08GodEaterso I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's a hardware issue
20:46:36GodEaterI need to reboot - brb
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20:50:39GodEaterdid TBOL3 post dmesg outputs and stuff ?
20:51:31gevaertsyes. They usually stop at "waiting for device to settle"
20:52:12GodEaterI would imagine that since he says he can't get it to connect in the OF either
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20:52:20GodEaterthat something is definitely broken
20:52:23GodEatereither with his device
20:52:25GodEateror the cable
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20:53:23gevaertsit works for you?
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20:54:12GodEateryes it works fine
20:54:14GodEaterI said that!
20:54:50gevaertsah yes you did...
20:55:05*gevaerts seems to be a bit less alert than he should be
20:55:14GodEaterso I don't think there's anything broken with ubuntu
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20:58:53TBOL3GodEater: I did on monday.
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20:59:07GodEateryou did what on Monday ?
20:59:11TBOL3Oh, and I can get it to connect with rockbox, on 8.04, and windows.
20:59:27TBOL3Oh, sorry, Sunday, I posted the dmesg output.
21:00:02bapdogright i've build latest ams and installed it. very nice. silly question. where is mp3 codec?
21:01:18GodEaterTBOL3, but not in the OF ?
21:01:29Bagderbapdog: apps/codecs/libmad/
21:02:01TBOL3I think it has something to do with the bootloader, but I honostly don't know.
21:02:05GodEaterI still think possibly you have faulty hardware then
21:03:07bapdogalso, how does the .rockbox directory get built?
21:03:12TBOL3Interesting, so do you know why rockbox works?
21:03:23TBOL3I mean, why I can transfer stuff via rockbox?
21:03:33Bagderbapdog: make zip
21:03:45bapdogok thanks
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21:10:46LloreanTBOL3: You could verify it's the bootloader by simply removing Rockbox and seeing if USB returns, then reinstalling Rockbox and seeing if it fails in the OF again.
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21:13:55TBOL3Llorean: Slight problem with that, if it doesn't work, I won't be able to connect to it again (well, I suppose I could break out the e200 tool).
21:16:25LloreanTBOL3: There's also Recovery mode. Or are you saying that doesn't work either?
21:17:38TBOL3Hmm.. I haven't tried it yet (I have on my brothers c250 though).
21:17:45TBOL3Good point, give me a moment...
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21:21:21TBOL3Ok, I'm in recovery mode. So I guess I can eventually get it back to normal. Thanks.
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21:33:51isforinsectsscorche|sh: I just saw the new shuffle advertisements, sux :(
21:34:17Lloreanisforinsects: That really has nothing to do with Rockbox.
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21:34:54isforinsectsapple is claiming that they have the first music player that talks to you
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21:35:10isforinsectsLlorean: apple is claiming that they have the first music player that talks to you
21:35:42krazykit`isforinsects, so? that's not on topic and has nothing to do with rockbox
21:36:14isforinsectsdidn't rockbox have someone hack together spoken menus at some point?
21:37:02GodEateryes, but the fact that apple are claiming it as a first is still nothing to do with rockbox ;)
21:37:10LloreanWe've had talking menus for ages
21:37:13krazykit`isforinsects, the voice UI is hardly hacked together
21:37:40LloreanBut A) advertising claims don't matter, and B) They're the first company to ship a music player with spoken menus. We just provide software with spoken menus, not the players themselves.
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21:39:37linuxstbrasher: What do you think about displaying information about character sets supported by themes? (i.e. the font used by the theme) Or maybe at least display the name of the font.
21:40:51pixelmadisplay the font and automatically make it a link to the font stats page? ;)
21:41:17gevaertsAnd schedule time to redo it when multifont appears ;)
21:41:33linuxstbThere's no danger of that happening though is there?
21:42:12gevaertsnone at all!
21:42:38*linuxstb will probably finish his Elio port before thne
21:47:42LloreanClearly multifont means we don't need to worry about supported character sets. If a character's missing we just fall back to Unifont, no matter how oversized and layout destroying it may be.
21:55:13kkurbjunlinuxstb: you did quite a bit of work on mpegplayer right?
21:56:11kkurbjundo you know offhand what the Ycbcr format is in memory? I have an interface that is 4:2:2 and I'm trying to figure out what exactly I need to do to set it up properly for the hardware to handle it
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21:58:42TBOL3Ok, then ere is something that is rockbox related (sort of, not really), the way the iPod shuffle does it's text to speech synth, is the same way rockbox does it.
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22:01:06linuxstbkkurbjun: It comes out of libmpeg2 as three arrays, one for each component.
22:02:36kkurbjunso if I increment unsigned char *src[3] by 1 (3 chars) that's the next full Ycbcr for one pixel?
22:02:45kkurbjunwhat does stride describe?
22:04:08amiconnThere are 3 separate arrays
22:04:41amiconn*src[3] holds the 3 pointers that point to them
22:04:46kkurbjunoh, I see
22:05:08kkurbjunso [0] is Y, [1] is cb, and [2] is cr?
22:06:55kkurbjunand stride looks like it is some description of the amount you have to move to get to the next value for a line?
22:07:31kkurbjunI am guessing because you will have 1 Y value for a pixel, but the cb and cr values are shared with the line below?
22:08:40linuxstbYes, that all sounds about right.
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22:27:01Horschtnot sure wether to ask this in -community or here, but will themes from the old wps gallery be moved to the new theme site? if so, under what conditions?
22:27:57LloreanHorscht: The original authors need to move them.
22:28:15LloreanSince there are very specific licensing terms with it, they basically need to be the copyright holder.
22:28:44Horschteven if CC3 share-alike?
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22:29:34LloreanEven then, an email address is stored in association with the theme. It should belong to the author.
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22:30:06gevaertstechnically anyone could take a CC3SA theme, fiddle with it in a minor way and reupload of course
22:30:37gevaertsbut we'd really like to have the original author upload them
22:32:31linuxstbI thought the plan was to wait a while, then see what themes are left in the gallery, and make a decision about moving them ourselves.
22:32:42Lloreanlinuxstb: At that point yes, we can make a decision.
22:33:14LloreanGenerally, the key is "a responsible party willing to take responsibility should do the move". We should give time for the original authors to claim responsibility.
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22:33:41linuxstbMaybe we could email those authors and ask them to move them, assuming someone can scrape their email addresses from the wiki...
22:35:26LloreanSounds like a good idea
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22:45:59DarkSpectrum-hey rasha are you around?
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22:49:48UbuntuxerIs there a chance to change the fontsize in a plugin?
22:50:04linuxstbDo you mean as a user, or as the plugin author?
22:50:23Ubuntuxeras a plugin author
22:50:43 Nick evilnick is now known as evilnyc (i=0c140464@gateway/web/ajax/
22:51:09linuxstbYes, you can load a font.
22:51:14 Quit kkurbjun ("Leaving.")
22:51:32Ubuntuxercan you give me the name of the function
22:53:40linuxstbSearching apps/plugin.h, font_load() looks appropriate.
22:55:13Ubuntuxerok thank you
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23:37:48david_420is there easy way to load rockbox on a creative zen vision m?
23:38:27scorchedavid_420: do you see that device listed under the table that lists the working rockbox devices on the main page?
23:39:55david_420it's listed on here
23:40:51krazykit`david_420, clearly you need to read the line right underneath "install method"
23:40:58scorchethere are a lot of devices in our wiki...that doesnt mean it works
23:41:17david_420oh bummer
23:41:45david_420i wasn't sure if that page was updated
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23:43:55gevaertsit is
23:44:14UbuntuxerI can change the font in the menu with font_load(), but I would like to change the font in lcd_putsxy()
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23:55:53UbuntuxerMy problem is that I displayed the help text and the highscore with lcd_putsxy(), but on big screens the font looks disproportionally small. Can anybody give me a clue, how to solve this problem?
23:56:35JdGordon|have you got any rb->set_viewport() calls in your plugin?
23:57:41Ubuntuxerno, I will try it
23:58:01JdGordon|no.. dont

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