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#rockbox log for 2009-04-04

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00:51:58 Part EternalRains
01:03:24UnhelpfulJdGordon: was there anything specific i was supposed to be testing in your patch? i can play and skip, and nothing funny happened with a good amount of doing both
01:03:55 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
01:03:58JdGordon_just general use... switching between codecs was an issue before
01:04:17JdGordon_gevaerts: have you tried the newest version of 9795 with your flacs?
01:04:26gevaertsJdGordon_: not yet
01:04:50gevaertsI'll make a new build tomorrow anyway. I'll include the new version then
01:05:16Unhelpfulah... i don't think i've played anything but vorbis. only other codec i *have* is mp3.
01:05:56JdGordon_I wonder if that flac thing was just a random wierdness which isnt going to be reprobable anyway
01:06:30JdGordon_kugel: what skip length wierdness did you find?
01:07:46kugelJdGordon_: just weirdness. cannot really describe it. sometimes the song won't play, sometimes skipping by the amount doesn't work, sometimes skipping at the end (with prevent skipping = off) is massively delayed)
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01:08:18kugelI cannot reproduce it. I was using my patch. Everything else worked fine (and worked fine too if the track length is shorter than the skip length)
01:09:39kugeland by delayed/doesn't work I mean that not only the wps is failing to update, but also playback doesn't seem to get the "partial" skip
01:10:38JdGordon_blah.. ok... thats something I've never used so wasnt checking for.. ok, ill have a look when I get a chance on the weekend
01:10:45kugelit *mostly* works though.
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01:11:07JdGordon_is mostly good enough though?
01:11:16kugelI don't think so :(
01:11:24*kugel wants this patch in too asap
01:12:33kugelI only have this one file which is so long that it triggers the issues (1h). All my other music is basically working flawlessy
01:12:48JdGordon_I wanted to put it in on sunday, because otherwise it probably wont go in for another 3 weeks
01:14:11kugelI cannot see any logical flaw in the code, so I'm a bit out of answers too :(
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01:14:27JdGordon_religious holidyas coming up... so my computer time is going to just about halve...
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01:14:41kugelI also debugf'd receiving the event. that's definitely not the problem
01:15:03LloreanDoesn't that kinda mean you also won't be around much if it breaks things over time?
01:15:42JdGordon_Llorean: thats an awefully pesimistic way to look at it :D
01:16:07kugelJdGordon_: I'm going to retest with your latest patch, to exclude my changes being a possible cause
01:16:38JdGordon_ok, but if you just touched wps refreshing it shouldnt effect things
01:16:54kugelLlorean: He's not the only one able to fix things. And we have release to be able to have some slightly-experimental code around. I don't see a problem
01:17:26Lloreankugel: Well, it doesn't matter for the moment since there are still known issues.
01:17:44kugelnobody said it's going in with known issues
01:17:55LloreanI didn't say they did... geeze.
01:18:09kugelnot even you said this. You said "*if* it breaks things"
01:18:14LloreanIn fact, I think my statement suggested I didn't expect it to go in with known issues.
01:18:17kugelthat's not a valid argument
01:18:22LloreanWhat argument?
01:18:24LloreanWhat are you on about?
01:18:27 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
01:18:50LloreanI said it *doesn't matter* at the moment because there are still known issues.
01:19:15*kugel moves the asteriks around "at the moment"
01:19:39*BigBambi is failing to see what kugel is trying to say here
01:19:40LloreanThat doesn't change the meaning of the sentence.
01:19:56LloreanAs long as there are known issues, it doesn't matter. So since, at the moment, there are known issues, it doesn't matter.
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01:20:13LloreanOnce there are no known issues, his availability to address new issues after it's committed becomes an issue.
01:20:24LloreanSince at that point it may be committable.
01:20:25*JdGordon_ loves how eaily arguments over sentance meaning get started here... especially when 50% (?) dont have english as their first language
01:20:55Lloreankugel: But it's really not good to commit a rework of *playback* and not be around in case it blows up.
01:21:18 Quit ender` (" PCMCIA: People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms")
01:21:38kugelI am around, I understand most - if not all - of his changes. is that enough?
01:21:40JdGordon_*my* point was that as it gets closer to me being afk it pushes the likely commit time out... i never suggested that I'd commit then go afk for 3 days immediatly
01:21:55kugelalso, he never said he's entirely unavailable
01:22:19Lloreankugel: If he's not available enough to commit it, he's probably not available enough to look after it...\
01:22:45LloreanI was just responding to his statement that he probably wouldn't be able to commit for some time after Sunday, that if he wouldn't be able to he probably shouldn't commit immediately before either.
01:22:47JdGordon_MOVING RIGHT ALONG...
01:23:28JdGordon_I'll be afk from wed night here... which is 3 days after sunday... which is why sunday is my cut off date... gezze give me *some* credit
01:24:25LloreanJdGordon_: Well, originally I just asked about your availability.
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05:15:48yookIi tagged all my music with genre in itunes, but when i go to the rockbox database genre list, most of my music is in these bogus numeric genres like (7) and (35). What's going on?
05:17:14Unhelpfulhave you tried looking at the tags stored in the files with a dedicated tagging program? i'd imagine rockbox is merely displaying what itunes wrote.
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05:17:54Bawitdabais it possible that a theme/wps can keep crashing my rockbox 3.2 ipod video 5.5g
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05:18:28yookgood idea.
05:18:39Bawitdabaits only a few select songs but when i use the stock theme they play fine, when i use rayboradio_OB it crashes
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05:19:00yookcant use winamp though, when i tag them in winamp it causes all kinds of probs
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05:19:56Unhelpfulhere's what the standard says about genre tags:
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05:22:32Unhelpfulv2.4.0 is a bit different, it seems that it basically says to just use the numeric id3v1 value by itself (without the parens) or use a string description of the genre.
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05:28:03yooki converted all my id3 tags to 2.4 in itunes =X
05:28:09yookhoping it would fix a different issue
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05:29:29Unhelpfuli'm betting it just copied those strings as-is, and that rockbox probably interprets bare numerals in id3v2.4 tags, and (N) in id3v2.3
05:36:35yookreconverting them all to 2.3 fixed some but not all.. i'll try a tagging prog
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05:38:49SansaFanWhat version of SVN is compatible with Cygwin???
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05:40:53yookactually thats because i didnt convert them all, whoops
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05:41:05yookyea, that did it. thanks =D
05:41:31yookfuck v2.4!
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05:46:10SansaFanCan Cygwin compile a version of Rockbox without generating a bunch of **** No rule to make target *** 'rockbox/sim/apps/bitmaps/native/rockbox/simlogo.176x54x16.o' , needed by 'rockbox/sim/rockboxui.exe'. Stop.
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06:09:40SansaFanCan Cygwin compile a version of Rockbox without generating a bunch of **** No rule to make target *** 'rockbox/sim/apps/bitmaps/native/rockbox/simlogo.176x54x16.o' , needed by 'rockbox/sim/rockboxui.exe'. Stop.
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07:29:04m0nik3r5hello all
07:29:59BHSPitLappyhello, one
07:31:45m0nik3r5i trying to install ipodlinux right now *beating head against wall*
07:32:13*scorche wonders if m0nik3r5 is looking for #ipodlinux
07:32:45m0nik3r5i am there
07:33:19scorchethis is #rockbox...where we talk about...rockbox...#ipodlinux, for comparison if for talking about...ipodlinux
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07:34:19m0nik3r5is there rockbox-offtopic .....lets check
07:34:59Unhelpfulsurely we'd not be *much* more able to help you with ipodlinux *there*?
07:36:01m0nik3r5obviously , I so sorry to all of you for asking an offtopic question here .
07:37:04Unhelpfulhave you tried rockbox? you might find it *somewhat* more useful for actually playing music on your music player. :)
07:38:53Topic"Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:40:59m0nik3r5oh , I am going to install rockbox here in the coming hours actually
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08:53:46ddaltonhey is the sansa e280 v2 supported?
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08:54:33ddaltonsorry, did u see my question?
08:56:12ddaltonam i here?
08:56:21homieloweIs pressing "play" from the quickscreen supposed to return to the playback screen. Not sure if this is target specific but I have a gigabeast, the build I am using is the latest.
08:57:30homieloweddalton: The e280v2 is not currently supported, though there is ongoing development of that specific target. Supported targets are listed on the front page of
08:58:03ddaltoni see that; but it doesn't specify v2 isn't supported, it says AMS...
08:58:06ddaltonis ams v2?
08:58:52ddaltonhomielowe: i could check the key maps :p
08:59:57homieloweddalton: Yes , I think the developers agreed to change the name (the wiki page) from V2 to AMS to reflect which the chipset inside them. And I think to make it less confusing.
09:00:20ddaltonah damn
09:00:49ddaltonu just shot down my excitement :( haha
09:01:22ddaltonhomielowe: but you believe there is work going on to support these targets?
09:02:05homieloweddalton: As anyone who knows rockbox, ports take time, just be patient, I remember buying a Gigabeat S before there was even sound on it.
09:02:57ddaltonhomielowe: yes... I know, I did a bit of voice development on the project a while back, but
09:03:38ddaltonhave been patient for over 12th months :p, but thought i would check back... :-)
09:03:43homieloweYes there is ongoing development, If you see , there was a patch to introduce bank switching for the sansa AMS family :P
09:04:10ddaltonlemme see
09:04:49homielowebankswitching ( enable the player to access >2GB of the flash
09:05:14ddaltonwait... to do that wouldn't rockbox have to be running some what on the target?
09:05:40homieloweI believe there is sound and some codecs do play on them, the problem (from what I understand) there is still something finiky with enableing the mmu.
09:07:15homieloweddalton: see FS #10048
09:07:47*GodEater is amazed to learn it even *has* an mmu
09:08:38ddaltonhahahaa i love that part about computer related channels, no one can just say the answer hahaa its k ill look at it
09:12:04ddaltonwait, so i could technicley install it on my player?
09:12:43scorcheddalton: yes, but it is unsupported and currently should only really be used by developers...if you brick your device trying it, dont whine to us...
09:19:34ddaltonhaha ok
09:19:45ddaltonima go eat nandos
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10:32:15amiconnWhat a waste...
10:32:50amiconnzxbox includes floating point stuff from libgcc on greyscale targets - just for calculating the fixed(!) greylevels from rgb...
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11:25:47pixelmalooking into the c200 virtual keyboard map again and would like to enable morse mode. Thought it was possible to map morse "select" to either Left/Right or "Keyboard" Left/Right because atm both are moving the cursor on the input line in morse mode. But I can't figure out how to prevent "the other" action to be triggered when using one of them as morse "select" - there's only one switch in keyboard.c which doesn't check for context "beforehand". D
11:25:47pixelma anybody have a hint?
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11:28:29pixelmato be more precise - I could prevent it from being triggered but morse select still didn't work and I think that's because the other actions are still defined and somehow get in the way
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11:57:42pixelmaso I would probably need a whole new context? Hrrmm :\
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12:45:13SansaFanCan Cygwin compile a version of Rockbox without generating a bunch of **** No rule to make target *** 'rockbox/sim/apps/bitmaps/native/rockbox/simlogo.176x54x16.o' , needed by 'rockbox/sim/rockboxui.exe'. Stop.
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12:49:52advcomp2019SansaFan, you do not need to repeat yourself.. people can read the logs
12:54:08pixelmaSansaFan: are you building from clean SVN (or at least tried a patched version before)?
12:54:52pixelmacygwin builds sims just fine here, by the way
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13:12:29SansaFanI am starting with the instructions for using Cygwin:: svn co svn:// rockbox
13:13:38SansaFanThere are no patches applied. I'm simply trying to generate a (N) or (S) build.
13:14:28SansaFanAfter creating a folder : in the rockbox folder (ie. mkdir sim)
13:14:47SansaFanand then opening that folder: cd sim
13:15:10SansaFanand executing the command: ../tools/configure
13:15:52scorcheSansaFan: look...we know the process...please either put averything you are doing into a pastebin ( or just report on the outcome after you start from scratch
13:15:54SansaFangenerates a makefile which I start with: make
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13:18:28SansaFanEverything appears to be standard compile and build, except that I eventually stop on the bitmaps simlogo.o default_icons.c usblogo.c
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13:21:14bertrikSansaFan, what target are you trying to build?
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13:24:31pixelmaI wonder where the "simlogo" name comes from, there's nothing in my buildtree called this way
13:26:42bertrikthe e200 sim builds fine here (ubuntu)
13:28:46SansaFanIt is looking at '/rockbox/sim/apps/bitmaps/native/rockbox/simlogo.176x54x16.o'
13:29:30pixelmait shouldn't
13:29:35bertrikSansaFan, maybe there's some remnants from a previous build attempt. Doing a 'make veryclean' may help
13:31:04pixelmadid you build a target (N) and a sim (S) in the same directory, without a "make clean" between?
13:31:34SansaFanIs that before or after issuing the make command?
13:32:09pixelmathough neither should look for something simlogo
13:32:19SansaFanThe target was in the new folder
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13:49:42linuxstbSansaFan: pixelma is right - simlogo doesn't exist in a standard Rockbox build, so something very odd is happening.... It should be called rockboxlogo.176x54x16
13:49:50*linuxstb wonders if some search/replace is going wrong
13:51:04pixelmawould it help to investigate if he made a diff of his current tree?
13:54:07linuxstbSansaFan: Try renaming the top-level "/rockbox" to something else - e.g. "/sansafan"
13:54:59linuxstbSansaFan: And then delete your "sim" build directory, and recreate it, and run ../tools/configure again.
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14:01:07Russel-Athletici have my own build of the rockbox software and i want to include in the make fullzip thing my own themes
14:01:12Russel-Athleticwhat do i have to do?
14:01:42archivatorAnyone willing to help me trace the freeze bug in fs#10065? I have no idea how to even begin - I'm thinking, I should sprinkle logf here and there in my code and compile a logf over usb build. Any simpler ideas?
14:02:02SansaFanI posted the prior build in
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14:03:15SansaFanI renamed /rockbox to /simbox
14:05:29linuxstbSansaFan: And...
14:05:30domonokyRussel-Athletic: put them into the wps dir like the other themes, and modify WPSLIST i think..
14:08:32domonokyarchivator: how does that freeze behave ? is the player completely dead ?
14:09:30SansaFanAfter issuing the 'make' command. The build finally succeeded. Success. Dunno why it would build from the native /rockbox folder.
14:09:54archivatordomonoky: yes. Playback stops, the device is unresponsive. Only way out is to restart it.
14:10:08SansaFanDunno why it wouldn't work from the native /rockbox folder.
14:11:12Russel-Athleticdomonoky: ok i try it
14:11:15linuxstbSansaFan: Putting "/rockbox" at the top-level of your directory structure is weird - that's not normally where someone would put it. But you've exposed a bug in the Rockbox build system.
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14:11:41linuxstbSansaFan: It should really go in /home/[yourname]/
14:13:21*linuxstb tries building Rockbox in /rockbox/ and it works fine, so maybe some cygwin strangeness...
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14:16:11SansaFanThanks for the advice and assistance. I'll remember to avoid using a toplevel /rockbox folder.
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14:29:26pixelmaUnhelpful: the pictureflow controls feel quite good now on all my 3 targets but just noticed something else (really minor cosmetic thing) when looking at the tracklist in greyscale. The gradient in the selector bar is currently darkest in the center and getting brighter at the borders, should be the other way round IMO
14:30:32pixelmalinuxstb: I had no problems building an e200 sim in a "sim" directory inside "rockbox" with cygwin. Did I misunderstand?
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15:51:49linuxstbpixelma: SansFan's "rockbox" directory was in the root of his cygwin install - i.e. /rockbox/
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15:52:26linuxstbSo he had /rockbox/apps/, /rockbox/tools/, etc and was building in /rockbox/sim/
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17:20:21Bawitdabahrm the theme rayboradio_OB keeps crashing my ipod 5.5g with "data abort at 000098BC (0)"
17:20:31Bawitdabavery strange
17:22:06gevaertsBawitdaba: which revision are you running?
17:22:11*gevaerts goes to get his ipod
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17:23:20gevaertsThat's the 3.1 release. Have you tried anything newer? (3.2 or a current build)?
17:23:29Bawitdabais it
17:23:37Bawitdabai swear i upgraded to 3.2 last night
17:23:46Bawitdabalemme try again
17:23:48M4ndrili need some help...i installed rockbox on sansa e200 and run doom and it freeze.. cant shut it down.. no response!!
17:24:07M4ndrilData Abort error
17:24:14LloreanM4ndril: Hold down the power button longer.
17:24:15gevaertsM4ndril: try holding the power button for a long time (30 seconds or so). That should force it to shut down
17:24:20M4ndrili hold it down
17:24:24 Join martian67 [0] (i=user5490@about/linux/regular/martian67)
17:24:25M4ndril20 sec? XD
17:24:42M4ndrilthnx :D
17:24:54M4ndrili cannt find the Music option the Sansa Firmware has :S
17:25:16M4ndrili instead have a Database option
17:25:50LloreanM4ndril: Have you read the manual?
17:25:55LloreanMusic can be played from the file browser or database.
17:26:06M4ndrilhmm but that way
17:26:09M4ndrilis pretty ugly
17:27:06LloreanPlease don't split sentences across multiple lines. It makes things harder to read.
17:27:20M4ndrilsorry :(
17:27:26M4ndrilim new to rockbox...
17:27:31LloreanI don't know what you mean by "ugly". is there some actual feature you can't find?
17:27:47M4ndrilyeah, my ipod-like features!
17:28:10gevaertsrockbox on sansa has exactly the same features as rockbox on ipod
17:28:19M4ndrili know
17:28:25M4ndrili wont install rockbox to my ipod :D
17:28:30LloreanM4ndril: I don't use the original firmware, so "ipod like" doesn't mean anything to me.
17:28:56M4ndrilits useless to select the DATABASE menu and find all the folders and files
17:29:01M4ndrili just wanna play my music
17:29:11gevaertsthe play it!
17:29:22M4ndrilbut its full of garbage folders
17:29:33LloreanThe folders are your music, organized.
17:29:47LloreanThey're only garbage if your tags are garbage.
17:30:17M4ndrilomg.. and can i switch to name files instead of TAGS ?
17:30:29LloreanThat's what the file browser is for.
17:30:34kugelM4ndril: use the file browser. i.e. select "files"
17:31:04Bawitdabaah lol gevaerts my drive letter changed and rbutil extracted the new version to one of my hard disks instead of rockbox
17:31:23rasherBawitdaba: oops
17:31:34Bawitdabayeah i didnt even realise
17:31:40M4ndrilok i use the file browser.. i have a photos folder there and other one.. i cannot see the photos :S
17:31:42gevaertsCan't your hard disk play files then? :)
17:31:54Bawitdabaa 1tb rockbox
17:32:13Lloreanrasher: I wonder if it'd make sense to do a re-detect before install to verify match with what's being installed, and prompt if there's a mismatch.
17:32:30LloreanM4ndril: Are they in a format Rockbox supports?
17:32:38rasherLlorean: Possibly
17:32:54LloreanM4ndril: And what's the Rockbox file view mode set to?
17:33:38M4ndrilwhere can i check that ?
17:33:52 Quit tvelocity (Success)
17:33:55LloreanIn the quickscreen if you haven't changed it, or in the normal location in the settings menu if you have.
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17:34:41M4ndrilok im now there
17:34:46M4ndrili have to put show files ?
17:35:05Bawitdabayeah 3.2 is amazing
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17:35:21LloreanM4ndril: I don't understand the question. I asked what it's set to. It needs to be set to "Supported"
17:35:36M4ndrili set it to supported files
17:35:45gevaertshm, is "photos" one of the OF-hidden things?
17:35:48M4ndriland then i browse the photo folder and i cannot display them
17:35:55LloreanWhat happens?
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17:36:05M4ndrilnothing happends
17:36:10LloreanDo you see them listed?
17:36:14M4ndrilthats the big deal
17:36:17M4ndrilyeah i do
17:36:25LloreanThen what do you press?
17:36:32M4ndrilthe big button in the center ? :D
17:36:55LloreanAnd nothing at all happens? No error message?
17:37:03LloreanIt's definitely a .jpg and not a .bmp?
17:37:17M4ndrilmaybe its a bmp :D
17:37:24M4ndrilis the one that comes with sansa
17:37:32M4ndrili bought my sansa 20 minutes ago xD
17:37:50rasherThat's bmp.
17:37:56LloreanAgain, please try to write whole sentences too.
17:38:16M4ndrilim used to that msn way :(
17:38:51M4ndrilwell.. i have my options listed as a menu list.. i want an icon view like the sansa original firmware has... how can i get that ? :D
17:39:07LambdaCalculus37M4ndril: Well, here we expect people to write properly.
17:39:18LloreanM4ndril: You'll always have text, but you can create a larger iconset if you want large icons
17:39:46M4ndrilLlorean: i want to have the menu the way sansa's original was
17:39:54M4ndrilLlorean: remember it ? :D
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17:40:23LloreanM4ndril: Then get programming.
17:40:51M4ndrilLlorean: no thnx i have lots of programming for today i will stick to sansas firmware
17:40:56LambdaCalculus37This is really odd... I'm trying to set up the Rockbox build environment on my new MacBook, but it's crapping out with this error when building the compilers:
17:40:56gevaertsM4ndril: if you want everything exactly like the sansa original firmware, you either have to write the code to make rockbox behave that way or use the original firmware
17:41:22LloreanM4ndril: One rule that is a _hard_ rule in here is that we ask you use real English words wherever possible. That means no things like "thnx". The reasoning for this should be explained in the channel guidelines linked in the topic.
17:41:33M4ndrilgevaerts: i wont want things exactly.. just a pretty graphic menu.. a theme or something ?
17:42:13M4ndrilLlorean: ok , sorry then
17:42:17LloreanM4ndril: There are themes available. You can look through them and see if you like any of them.
17:42:37Bawitdabai still get some sound clipping when scrolling threw directory list that has tons of directories
17:42:45Bawitdababut it is much better in 3.2
17:42:49 Nick Horschti is now known as Horscht (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
17:43:06*LambdaCalculus37 summons one of the other Mac using devs
17:43:13Bawitdabaits like if you scroll down its not an issue but when u scroll back up it clips
17:43:37M4ndrilLlorean: the themes that are on the website are crap .. i saw a PSP theme on youtube maybe i can finde good themes on another page, do you know any website ?
17:43:46LloreanBawitdaba: "clipping" is a technical term for a specific type of sound problem. Do you just mean there are gaps in the audio?
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17:44:05LloreanM4ndril: No. You're also free to make your own themes.
17:44:06gevaertsBawitdaba: you could try turing on dircache
17:44:07Bawitdabagap in playback
17:44:10Bawitdabai am
17:44:11LambdaCalculus37M4ndril: Google knows the website.
17:44:13LambdaCalculus37Ask it.
17:44:39M4ndrilLlorean: ok i will try to make my theme , im a designer :D
17:45:00Bawitdabaand 5s disk spindown dunno what that really means lol
17:45:58Bawitdabaill just try to use the database more
17:46:03Bawitdabai like it better anyway
17:47:16M4ndrili found pretty cool themes, but they are for the original firmware
17:47:25LloreanBawitdaba: It's most likely related to the scrolling than the disk access if you have dircache on
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17:47:49Bawitdabayeah dircache is on, cant imagine life without it lol
17:48:08Bawitdabamost of the scroll options are for wps tho?
17:48:14Bawitdabatext scrolling
17:48:32martian67congrats on finally getting USB on portal player enabled guys :D
17:48:42martian67not having to reboot into default firmware
17:48:45martian67is nice :)
17:48:47gevaertsThanks :)
17:48:53LloreanBawitdaba: I didn't really say it's fixable. Do you have an iPod Video?
17:49:07Bawitdabayes iPod Video 5.5g 80gb
17:49:22Bawitdabaits not really a big deal
17:49:34martian67gevaerts, could use a better splash screen though ;)
17:49:41Bawitdabai know 3.2 said something about improved scrolling
17:49:45Bawitdabaso i figured id mention it
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17:50:22Bawitdabait prolly just eats so much cpu while scrolling that playback cant continue right away or something right?
17:50:24archivatorgevaerts: did you hack together the change in orientation for fs#10065 or did you do it the proper way (graph_setting, keymap, new functions and all that) ? :)
17:50:31gevaertsBawitdaba: you may want to try a current build. IIRC there is some more recent optimisation in dhe drawing code
17:50:41martian67yes, i find that newer code
17:50:54martian67is much smoother as far as doing things while playback is occuring go
17:50:57Bawitdabaill check out a svn build
17:51:09martian67Bawitdaba, just use a daily
17:51:12martian67off the mainpage
17:51:14gevaertsarchivator: I just swapped x and y in some places. Nothing proper abiut it :)
17:51:30Lloreanmartian67: Why do you recommend "daily' builds instead of the even newer current builds we have for download?
17:51:42M4ndrilmartian67: dont write cut sentences :D:DD:
17:51:49martian67well isnt that what current build is?
17:51:56martian67a daily build from SVN o.O
17:51:58LloreanCurrent builds are built every time SVN changes.
17:52:03martian67oh nice :)
17:52:03LloreanThey are not built daily.
17:52:07archivatorgevaerts: right, cause I'm working on it right now and wanted to make sure I'm not duplicating effort. Btw, whatever happened to the usb indicators idea?
17:52:32martian67Llorean, you guys are remarkibly bug-free for living on the edge like that ;)
17:52:56M4ndrilarchivator: here we dont use "btw" we use by the way :D
17:53:04gevaertsM4ndril: stop it
17:53:09M4ndrilarchivator: Llorean will explain you why
17:53:34kugelM4ndril: btw is fine, since it's explained in the abbreviation list
17:53:48kugelwhich is linked in the guidelines
17:53:58M4ndrilkugel: you have an abbreviation list :O
17:54:25gevaertsarchivator: it had issues last time I worked on it, which may have been solved by the latest portalplayer magic. I'd need to test again
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17:54:49markunarchivator: if you are going to implement rotation in rockbox you would also make some gigabeat owners really happy :)
17:55:13kugelrotation is already implemented
17:55:20archivatorgevaerts: I seem to remember a log entry about removing the usb events altogether, that's why I'm asking
17:55:24gevaertsmarkun: I think archivator is only talking about a specific plugin :)
17:55:30kugelmpegplayer rotates fonts
17:55:32kugeland icons
17:55:35markunkugel: man, I must have been away for a long time...
17:55:52archivatormarkun: just a single plugin, sorry - fs#10065
17:55:52gevaertsarchivator: yes. That's part of the "issues" bir
17:55:57markunkugel: I meant more general support in de widget code itself
17:56:05markunto make it easy to rotate the WPS
17:56:10kugelthe rotation drawing can just copy&pasted into the core, then add a setting, and have rotation
17:56:15archivatorgevaerts: ah, that kind of issues. Got it.
17:57:49markunsome plugins use different bitmaps for 320x240 and 240x320, so we can't just rotate everything
17:58:10kugelmarkun: welll, I guess it would only make sense to rotate the entire wps. for this, a single tag would be needed (like %r|90). then just use the rotated functions instead of the normal ones
17:58:19markunkugel: and button the button driver would need to be adapted
17:58:50martian67does anyone have any details about updating a 5.5 30gig hard-drive?
17:59:04martian67*updating a harddrive on
17:59:10kugelthey already are for 180 degree rotation, should be rather trivial to addapt it to 90/270 degree rotation
18:00:07markunkugel: you want to put it on your todo list? ;)
18:00:37kugelthe todo list is for things that are generally agreed on. 2 people don't count as general I think :)
18:00:58gevaertskugel: *your* todo list :)
18:01:08kugelah, well, no
18:01:18kugelmy todo list is already unbearable long
18:02:06markunwould we install 2 versions of the WPS' (if they exist) for 0, 180 and for 90, 270?
18:03:34kugelI don't think so
18:03:51markunwhy not?
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18:04:08markuncabbie for 320x240 doesn't work for 240x320
18:04:27kugelwhy should we. Unless rotation is a key feature, we can keep it simple and default to "native"
18:05:01kugelif someone wants rotated wps, he can install it, add the imaginary %r tag and use it
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18:05:32markunor maybe the WPS can specify its resolution
18:08:08kugelin fact, I don't see anything serious to stop us from doing rotation, given that mpeg player already has it
18:08:23kugeljhMikeS too said, that this should be in core
18:08:53archivatorCan't we do rotated/scaled viewports?
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18:10:22kugelscaled viewports?
18:11:57archivatorNah, ignore me. It'd be useless.
18:12:44kugelbut rotation on viewports basis sounds like a good idea
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18:16:35archivatorMy idea was to turn the viewports into canvases. Say, you create a 300x200 "canvas" and then put it in a 100x150 square, rotated by 90 degrees. That way, the scaling/rotating functionality would be exposed to the entire rockbox codebase (plugins and all). Kinda like cairo, only simpler.
18:17:09gevaertsarchivator: and while you're at it, ignore complaints about slow UI? ;)
18:17:48archivatorWe can always limit it to the more powerful targets..
18:18:00archivatorBesides, I warned you it's a bad idea :)
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18:25:17kugelarchivator: viewports are just subscreens. there's nothing to it besides dimensions, and the font and colors
18:25:52kugelif you craete 300x200 canvas, you create a 300x200 viewport, and when you put a 100x150 scare in it, you just put another 100x150 viewport in it
18:27:52kugeland by subscreen, I don't mean that there's any sort if inheritance
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18:31:33archivatorkugel: Right. That's where things are at now. The thing is, I don't really think there's much need for an advanced graphics library like the one I'm describing (with scaling, arbitrary rotation, etc). Hence, my "it'd be useless" comment :)
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18:43:33Pabletto2khey guys I need some help with my rockbox
18:44:27Pabletto2know that I have it running on my sansa I can't add music to the player
18:46:31Pabletto2knobody is at home ?
18:46:39LloreanPabletto2k: Please, have patience.
18:46:46saratoga_homeexplain your problem
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18:47:30saratoga_homeLlorean: has there been much activity in the GSOC channel?
18:48:44Lloreansaratoga_home: Some. Basically a general agreement on the fact that we need to decide what we're doing next to move things along.
18:49:39Pabletto2kLlorean: do i have to boot to the old firmware to add music to my sansa ?
18:50:02LloreanPabletto2k: It depends on what revision of Rockbox you have installed, but it should be automatic if you do.
18:50:44Pabletto2kLlorean: I installed rockbox 3.2
18:51:08saratoga_homethen you have to boot the original firmware [see the release notes for that build]
18:51:43Pabletto2kLlorean: When i connect my device to the computer i only have 4 folders: temp, photo, record and video
18:52:10Pabletto2ksaratoga_home: Can you tell me how do i boot to the old firmware ?
18:52:25LloreanPabletto2k: So, what's the problem? You can see your device now.
18:52:40Pabletto2kLlorean: I can but not the music
18:52:40LloreanYou're in the original firmware, and attached to your computer.
18:52:54Pabletto2kLlorean: No, im on the rockbox firmware
18:52:59LloreanPabletto2k: The music is there. What you're seeing is the actual filesystem. Rockbox doesn't move anything.
18:53:15LloreanPabletto2k: If you're in 3.2, then you're not in Rockbox.
18:53:20LloreanRockbox 3.2 does not have any USB mode.
18:53:32Pabletto2kLlorean: Let me start again, i want to add music to my sansa
18:53:33LloreanYou are attached to your computer, and viewing the filesystem on your player, in the Sandisk firmware.
18:53:37LloreanSo add music
18:53:41LloreanYou can put it wherever you'd like.
18:54:02Pabletto2kLlorean: Last month i add music with the Sansa Firmware in a folder i cannt remember i guess the music folder
18:54:33Pabletto2kLlorean: Yesterday i installed rockbox and i can play that music but when i plug my device to computer i see nothing.. no mp3 files
18:54:50LloreanPabletto2k: You're in the sandisk firmware. Maybe you used MTP mode before.
18:54:56LloreanI can't say or know what you did before, but I'm not lying to you.
18:54:57gevaertsPabletto2k: the sansa firmware likes to mark the music directory as hidden
18:55:05LloreanIf you're using 3.2, you're using the Sandisk firmware for USB
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18:55:30Pabletto2kLlorean: I want to delete that music and add new one, but i cant see the files.. im in windows right now
18:55:40Pabletto2kim in rockbox
18:55:42LloreanPabletto2k: I can't tell you where you put your music.
18:55:52gevaertsPabletto2k: tell windows to show hidden files and directories
18:55:54LloreanYou are not in Rockbox if you can see your player from Windows
18:56:13Pabletto2kLlorean: im in rockbox.. i know what rockbox is
18:56:20LloreanPabletto2k: Then you aren't using 3.2
18:56:33Pabletto2ki will plug my device to the computer.. hang on
18:56:42Pabletto2kand thanks for helping :)
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18:57:29Pabletto2kOk when i plug it the device restart 2 times and goes back to the old firmware.. thats right?
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18:58:27LloreanThat's exactly what I told you was happening - USB connections are happening in the original firmware.
18:58:31Pabletto2koh gevaerts was right
18:58:41Pabletto2kthe sansa hide my folders
18:59:08gevaertsit will keep rehiding them. You may be better off just making a folder with a different name
18:59:24saratoga_homeor just update rockbox and not use the original firmware
18:59:28Pabletto2kthnx for the advice
19:00:31saratoga_homegevaerts: i wanted to ask you about USB mode, when I turn off the computer it stays at the connected screen until i unplug
19:00:43Pabletto2kone more thing I installed the voice menu and now im hateing it
19:01:06saratoga_homei assume its because the computer is still providing charging power, but it seems a little odd
19:01:07Pabletto2khow can i disable that annoying thing ?
19:01:16rasherPabletto2k: general settings > voice
19:01:25LloreanPabletto2k: The options are described in the manual
19:01:40Pabletto2kok thank you :)
19:01:57gevaertssaratoga_home: we don't do disconnect handling entirely correctly yet. You'll see the same thing if you're connected trough a hub and then disconnect the hub from the host
19:02:36saratoga_homeok as long as you're aware
19:02:49Pabletto2kA friend told me the battery of his sansa run out faster with rockbox than with the original firmware
19:02:50Pabletto2kis that true ?
19:03:16gevaertsit was true until about a year ago
19:03:35Pabletto2kmmhhh i see
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19:07:47Pabletto2kim loving rockbox i guess i can modify things with c++
19:07:53Pabletto2kis it built on c++ ?
19:07:53LloreanC, not C++
19:08:05Pabletto2knice :)
19:08:13Russel-Athleticanother question: i have a svn version of rockbox (pulled the tag of 3.2), how can i enable the rockbox usb stack? (i know it is experimental and blabla :D)
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19:08:44gibbon_hi there
19:08:51gevaertsRussel-Athletic: I think you'd be better off just using a current build then
19:08:53LloreanRussel-Athletic: The easiest solution would just be to use a current build instead
19:09:31Russel-Athleticnow easy variable somewhere to set?
19:09:34Russel-Athleticor some include?
19:09:49gevaertsyes, but there's a more or less serious fix to the usb stack that's not in 3.2
19:09:49 Quit agaffney (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:09:54LloreanWhy do you want to use 3.2 instead of more current code?
19:10:23 Join agaffney [0] (n=agaffney@gentoo/developer/agaffney)
19:10:34Russel-Athleticbecause i don't want to have the latex bleeding edge, so I revered to a sane version
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19:10:52gibbon_i wanted to ask, if there is any chance to find out, if an iPod mini is a 1G or a 2G without using the inputs? (i have bought a mini with broken wheel and want to find out if i gain anything by exchanging the logic board with my G1s
19:10:55gevaertsRussel-Athletic: you need to define USE_ROCKBOX_USB in the config-yourplayer.h, but as I said, the usb code in 3.2 is not as solid as in trunk
19:11:10BigBambiwhy not?
19:11:23BigBambi@ Russel-Athletic
19:11:56Russel-AthleticBigBambi: i want something thats working :)
19:12:07LloreanThe bleeding edge build works better than 3.2
19:12:16BigBambiIt does work
19:12:24LloreanThat's not _always_ the case, but we try to keep it working as well as possible.
19:12:30Russel-Athleticwell then i go with this
19:12:33*gevaerts is using extra bleeding edge right now
19:14:11LloreanCode you haven't committed yet?
19:15:06krazykithe cut his hand on the computer
19:16:12gevaertsNot mine, FS #9795
19:17:47gibbon_and another thing.. is there some generic-ness in the interface, the ipod remote uses for communication? i wondered what "bus" is going throught these 4 pins
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19:30:39bluebrotherrasher: is there a reason you added an additional prefix to some of the release targets? That creates the same situation as for sansae200 vs e200 and similar
19:30:55rasherbluebrother: huh? what, where?
19:31:20bluebrotherand I'd really like to have that consistent to minimize "translation" issues
19:31:23*kugel notices that skip length is broken on a 64bit sim
19:32:02bluebrotherf.e. forzvm30gb −− it's createivezvw30gb in
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19:32:38rasherbluebrother: a) I'm pretty sure that's how it is in configure b) afaik I'm the only one using (for my windows sim site)
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19:33:13bluebrotherit's not a real issue right now, but for rbutil we need to translate e200 -> sansae200 (and some others as well), and I'd really like that difference to be removed
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19:33:43bluebrotherit could be quesioned if we should consider moving to <manufacturer>-<model> the same time
19:34:09rasherarguably, sansae200 is just the model. sandisk-sansae200 would be <manufacturer>-<model>
19:34:38bluebrotherwell, the model is e200 in configure. So the question is if configure should use that naming as well
19:35:46rasherI was thinking of in "real" terms, Sansa is just part of Sandisk's model name
19:36:16rasherBut my commit should have no influence on this, since isn't used for anything
19:36:21bluebrotheranother thing I'm wondering about every now at then is why we still have the numbers in configure. They are shorter, ok, but ...
19:36:37rasherbluebrother: easier to type
19:36:58bluebrothermaybe. I tend to use the names (easier to recognize ;-)
19:38:03*gevaerts uses the numbers
19:38:05bluebrotherhmm, for the zvm it's even creativezvm30 in configure
19:38:07rasherThat's not so bad when you're building e200, but creativezvm60gb is a bitch to type, I imagine
19:38:15bluebrotherso yet another name :(
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19:38:23rasherWhat do you mean?
19:39:11rasherOkay, I'm going to put up a page which lists what's used where
19:39:29bluebrotherI'm just crying about those naming inconsistencies ;-)
19:40:28bluebrotherit's m3 for iaudio m3 but meizu-m3 for the meizu m3 ...
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19:46:47Unhelpfulpixelma: thanks. which targets did you test on? i'll try to go through the rest on sim, and if things seem to "work" generally i'll go ahead and commit it... unless i sholud fix the manual's keymaps at the same time?
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19:52:40rasherSo is it Cowon? Iaudio? Is Iaudio a sub-brand of Cowon? What's going on there..
19:53:21rasherIt seems Iaudio is indeed a sub-brand of cowon
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20:00:27Pabletto2khey guys where can i get the coverflow plugin? :D
20:01:18LloreanPabletto2k: It's part of Rockbox.
20:01:54 Join HBK [0] (
20:01:54LloreanIt's even in the manual...
20:02:38Pabletto2ki seek for it in the application -> plugins
20:02:47Pabletto2kplugins -> application
20:02:52Pabletto2kwhen i add the cover flow
20:02:55Pabletto2kit loads that plugin ?
20:03:00archivatortry plugins->demos
20:03:12Pabletto2ki know i can add covers to my music
20:03:16LloreanPabletto2k: You really should look in the manual.
20:03:41bluebrotherPabletto2k: have you been directed to the manual already? ;-)
20:03:58Pabletto2ki ahve
20:03:59Pabletto2ki have
20:04:03Pabletto2ki read i need to add
20:04:07Pabletto2kthe 100x100 covers
20:04:10Pabletto2kto my folders
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20:05:21Pabletto2koh i need to ask, i bought my sansa and no wall charge came with it
20:05:23LloreanPabletto2k: Please don't split sentences across multiple lines.
20:05:45Pabletto2kis not harmfull to use the usb to charge ?
20:06:19Pabletto2kbecause every time you connect the device it starts charging so the battery is not harming ?
20:07:17LloreanIt only charges if it's not full.
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20:07:28Pabletto2ki know
20:07:34Pabletto2kbut its always charging
20:07:44LloreanOnly if it's not full.
20:07:49LloreanIt's not always charging, only when needed.
20:08:17LloreanSmall charges are not harmful. They actually heat the battery less.
20:08:27mcuelenaeregevaerts: why don't the IMX31, TCC7X & TCC780X targets use the audio buffer in the USB storage driver?
20:08:43Pabletto2kok i thought it was not good to charge every time i connect the device (and is not fully charged)
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20:11:36gevaertsmcuelenaere: IMX31 because of MMU reasons. Most RAM is mapped differently from the point of view of the USB hardware than from the point of view of the software, so it would need a translation function. Ask jhMikeS for details. I don't know why the TCCs are different. They possibly just copied the IMX31 lines, but I actually have no idea
20:12:30mcuelenaereok, then I suppose the ISP1583 shouldn't do that either
20:12:57gevaertsIf you have the choice, use the audio buffer
20:13:32rasherbluebrother: where do we have the problem - normal build, manual and voice downloads?
20:14:33bluebrotherrasher: all of them
20:14:46bluebrotherit's consistently different :o
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20:17:59kugelgevaerts: normally, you still should be able to access the RAM using its physical address even if it's mapped. Also, the imx31 has a translation function
20:18:36kugeladdr_virt_to_phys() and addr_phys_to_virt()
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20:19:25gevaertskugel: I remember that we spent some time trying to get this to work, until jhMikeS suggested just using this bit of RAM that was lying around unused that happened to have a straight-through mapping. I think there's agreement that this should be cleaned up
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20:22:06kugelmcuelenaere: you left a LOGF_ENABLE #define uncommented
20:24:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:27:42*domonoky is talking with bluebrother about autodetection in rbutil: if rbutil detects more then one device, should it show a menu to select a device, or stop wotking?
20:27:59domonokys/woking/working, ie refuse to continue.
20:28:31LloreanMenu, I think
20:28:39domonokyi am for the menu, bluebrother wants no menu, because the patchers cant work with more then 1 ipod/sansa connected..
20:28:50gevaertsall at once!
20:29:02LloreanMenu, with a red warning that says "bootloaders cannot be installed with multiple players attached"?
20:29:15domonokyif(user!=bluebrother) showmenu() :-)
20:29:26bluebrotherwell, that's a special case.
20:29:38domonokyLlorean: yes, that wht i suggested, just show a warning..
20:29:43bluebrotherrbutil should be able to install the bootloader if multiple ipods are connected to the correct one
20:29:49LloreanWould it be possible to, when installing a build, run the "detection" on the targeted player and pop up a warning if the selected build target doesn't match the detected player?
20:30:00bluebrotheradding a warning is yet another special case.
20:30:09LloreanTo avoid things like people installing 1g2g builds to Nanos, etc.
20:30:27bluebrotherand I'm pretty sure we can make ipodpatcher use the correct ipod, i.e. work fine with multiple ipods
20:30:34*gevaerts thinks that MrSomeone should fix the patchers
20:31:01LloreanWell, then we fix *playerpatcher and then do a menu?
20:31:01bluebrotherthing is, if a user selects one of two detected Ipods he *will* expect the bootloader install to work with that.
20:31:24domonokyLlorean: it already warns if the installed version doesn match the new one. but it doesnt check against a autodetection..
20:31:26bluebrotherwell, I'm not against a menu if the patchers work with it (it's the same issue for sansapatcher)
20:31:29Lloreanbluebrother: If the menu screen always says has red text saying "Bootloader install won't work with multiple players attached" so that every time they see that menu, they also see the warning...
20:31:43Lloreandomonoky: I know, I was suggesting it check against autodetection since that's more reliable.
20:31:58bluebrotherLlorean: that means you need to check that before installing the bootloader. Even more code ...
20:32:02rasherbluebrother: maybe it's enough to just refuse to do bootloader installation
20:32:04domonokyLlorean: at moment it isnt really more reliable..
20:32:11*bluebrother goes looking into the patchers
20:32:23bluebrotherrasher: sure, but it needs to get checked again
20:32:28Lloreandomonoky: But it should be eventually
20:32:29domonokyrasher: the patchers already do this.
20:32:56domonokyLlorean: yes, i am working on this, thats why we have this discussion :-)
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20:34:55*bluebrother sees a possible way how to fix patcher integration
20:35:39bluebrotherthough it's a bit of work
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20:40:34domonokyearly screenshot of such a menu:
20:41:49archivatorMountpoint is not exactly Windows terminology :)
20:42:19domonokyarchivator: how do you call such thing, if its shown in Win/Lin/Mac ? :-)
20:42:43archivatorMount point on Linux, Drive on Windows, dunno about Mac.
20:44:11bluebrotheryou-don't-need-to-know-about on mac :P
20:45:37bluebrotherdomonoky: well, the device -> mountpoint resolving should be definite, thus I don't think the user should be able selecting it separately
20:45:51bluebrotheralso, I'd prefer a real list instead of a dropdown
20:45:53domonokythe empty line in this sceen shot, is again the different modelnames.. rockbox-info.txt uses modelnames from configure :-)
20:46:30domonokybluebrother: the problem is: there can be multiple possible mountpoints for a device.. should we make this different devices ?
20:46:56kugelso, my sim crashes with an error I cannot explain (get_token_value returns assigned an illegal address, an address out of bounts), and it does not happen on my player. any idea?
20:47:33bluebrotherdomonoky: in what case is that possible? Mountpoint resolving is pretty solid these days
20:48:12domonokythe typical user problem: user installed to the wrong mountpoint before..
20:48:55domonokyand of course the dev "problem": test installations in different mountpoints.
20:49:10bluebrotherthen make it two distinct devices. Heck, it's even possible a user has two identical players connected
20:49:35domonokyyes, the it finds this device at two possible locations...
20:50:04bluebrotherwell, that would mean there are two devices
20:50:25domonokyit was a list in the earlier attempt in the tracker.. it didnt look to nice.
20:51:15domonokybut the screenshot is ofcouse a early prototype, it needs more work..
20:52:32domonokynew autodetection prevers to find too much devices, instead of too less, or the wrong one (as before). any comments against this ?
20:53:42domonokythe bad thing about this is: autodetection takes longer, because it uses all known detection methods, and the user has to choose a device if rbutil isnt sure..
20:54:31gevaertsdomonoky: what's the chance of rbutil not being sure for the typical user?
20:54:59bluebrotherdomonoky: why not do it in two steps? First implement handling of multiple devices at all. Indicate the user to remove all but one.
20:55:17BigBambidomonoky, archivator: I believe that Macs call it "Volume"
20:55:21bluebrotherin the second step add selection functionality. Makes the diff also shorter and easier to understand :)
20:55:52domonokybluebrother: because, if i do the detection of multiple devices, i already have a list... so its not much code to aktually show it..
20:55:58archivatorThere, "Mount point" on Linux, Drive on Windows, Volume on Mac. Pretty consistent :)
20:56:42rasherAnd on BSD?
20:56:47bluebrotherRockbox Utility is consistent. It calls it mountpoint.
20:56:57Pabletto2kdoes anyone know if its posible to use the picture flow for selecting the music to play ?
20:57:05bluebrotherPabletto2k: no
20:57:28Pabletto2kand whats the funtion ? to show pictures ? xD
20:57:29gevaertsPabletto2k: probably in some later release
20:57:37domonokygevaerts: the chance is low for the "normal" user, if nothing goes wrong.. But we could also use this for devices we cant detect now, ie ipod5.5 64MB is always detected as 32mb version 8which is safe) ..
20:57:45Pabletto2kmaybe i can help with development
20:57:57Pabletto2kC/C++ programmingf
20:58:04 Join wodz [0] (n=594b9d7e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:58:40wodzhello - I have question what is the difference between suffle mode and repeat->shuffle?
20:59:09BigBambiPabletto2k: C
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21:00:28Pabletto2knice.. is it well documented ?
21:01:01*bluebrother goes downloading gimp just to make a screenshot on w32 :(
21:01:19BigBambiwodz: Repeat shuffle and shuffle are explained in the manual
21:01:25domonokybluebrother: paint is enough for screenshots :-)
21:01:32BigBambiPabletto2k: The source?
21:01:55archivatorbluebrother: paint has png support
21:02:09bluebrotherdoes paint support capturing?
21:02:15kugeland vista/win7 has a nice screenshot tool build in
21:02:26archivatoralt+prtscn ?
21:02:27wodzBigBambi: yes it is and I dont catch difference
21:02:29kugelbluebrother: you can paste the screenshot into paint..
21:02:42bluebrotherarchivator: ah, true. Almost forgot about that
21:03:01BigBambiwodz: Repeat shuffle will repeat a playlist and shuffle it differently each time
21:03:06 Quit Pabletto2k ()
21:03:30BigBambiwodz: Shuffle will just shuffle once, if you then turn repeat on the same shuffled playlist will repeat
21:03:46wodzBigBambi: I see
21:03:52BigBambiwithout reshuffling
21:04:45wodzBigBambi: Thanks
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21:12:17bluebrotherdomonoky: mockup here:
21:12:45*bluebrother wonders who on earth considered it a good idea to always have an empty window open in gimp 2.6
21:12:59domonokylooks nice...
21:13:16bluebrotherthat's how I imagined it
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21:18:43wodzI'm reading manual and I have another question - Is it possible to charge ipod mini form laptop's usb without getting into emergency disk mode?
21:18:56 Quit krazykit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:20:49wodzManual in section 8.5.2 states I should set 'Charge During USB Connection' to No, so how I am supposed to charge ipod without wall charger?
21:22:02bluebrotherit only recommends to turn that off if you're using an unpowered hub
21:22:17bluebrotherit doesn't recommend simply turning it off.
21:23:14wodz"Turning it Off is recommended if the dap is connected through an unpowered USB hub or a laptop port."
21:23:24bluebrotherI know, I can read that too
21:23:40saratogado you have an unpowered port?
21:23:50wodzno I have laptop :-)
21:24:03bluebrotherwell, shouldn't that answer the question?
21:24:30wodzit states unpowerd hub OR laptop port
21:24:39wodzso I should turn this off
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21:25:12wodzso I must have problems with understanding this statement
21:25:13bluebrotherwell, it depends if that port is capable of driving 500mA
21:25:37wodzAre there some easy way to check?
21:25:46saratogabasically they all are
21:26:26bluebrotherrasher: nice table :)
21:27:23rasherbluebrother: I would guess we need to decide on how we want the targets named, and then just work our way through everything that doesn't match. The current situation is a mess
21:27:23wodzAs far as I remember USB standard allows to take up to 500mA from single port
21:27:40bluebrotherdomonoky: do you remember a function in rbutil to resolve disk name -> mountpoint? I think to remmeber we had it somewhere (and it was even me who added it) but I can't find it :/
21:28:14domonokyyes, one moment...
21:28:22bluebrotherrasher: yes. Worst case is having rbutil downloads breaking for a short time but better do it now than later
21:28:29domonokyQString Autodetection::resolveMountPoint(QString device)
21:28:42domonokyin base/autodetection.c
21:28:51*bluebrother would like to scrap one of detect.cpp and autodetection.cpp
21:29:55 Quit planetbeing ()
21:30:08bluebrotherdomonoky: argh, I meant the other way round
21:31:01bluebrotherbut checking the lookup on w32 makes me believe we don't have the other way
21:31:09domonokymountpoint-> device doesnt exist for now
21:31:40domonokyand please dont change autodetection.cpp heavily while i am working on it :-)
21:31:58*bluebrother slaps domonoky with rbsettings.{cpp,h}
21:32:30domonokyi didnt change much.. and you patch isnt in the tacker :-)
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21:32:45*domonoky misses keys...
21:32:56bluebrotherwell, it wasn't ready that time. Now it's heavily broken :(
21:33:08bluebrotherI really need to merge that
21:33:54domonokyhow can it be heavily broken, when i just changed two function names ?
21:34:34bluebrotherthat's rather simple: I changed that file completely and replaced a bunch of functions
21:34:43bluebrotherso now that function isn't a separate function anymore
21:34:56bluebrotherthus automatic merge doesn't work at all for this
21:34:58domonokyah, but there is a way to do the same ?
21:35:37bluebrotheryes. You remember the idea of list-based settings I mentioned at devcon?
21:35:39domonokyyou should really put it on tracker.. nearly every rbutil change will break it.. settings are everywhere
21:36:13bluebrotherwell, it will only break if rbsettings.{cpp,h} changes. Settings getting used are easy to fix up
21:36:38bluebrothertoo bad you broke it like 2 days before I was finished enough to get posted to the tracker
21:39:23domonokyif you look at the change, i renamed two ini entrys, renamed the corresponding getter, and ofcourse corrected the use of this getters, that shouldnt be much to merge...
21:40:01bluebrotheryes. It's still completely different (and nothing to be done easily after a long office day)
21:40:03domonokyand also should post early work on the tracker, even when it isnt finished, so others can see what you are working on..
21:42:22Nico_Pwill this new dialog appear when the configured device isn't found?
21:43:17domonokyNico_P: no it will shown, when it finds more then one device at autodetection
21:43:43Nico_Pcouldn't rbutil automatically attempt to find devices when the configured one isn't there?
21:44:20Nico_PI find it cumbersome to use with several targets
21:44:55domonokyNico_P: and when should it notice, that the configured one isnt there ?
21:45:09Nico_Pat startup, like it currently does
21:45:33domonokyrbutil doesnt do autodetection at startup at moment..
21:46:07bluebrotherdomonoky: any problems with me changing resolveMountPoint()?
21:46:14Nico_PI know, but on my setup it complains if I start it up without the device being plugged in (because the mount point doesn't exist)
21:46:34Nico_PI get the dialog saying the configuration is invalid
21:47:23bluebrotherwell, it checks if the configuration is "vaild". It doesn't check for the correct player though
21:48:14Nico_PI'd guess that most often a config is invalid because the player isn't there anymore. also I assume it's not hard to make sure
21:48:28*Nico_P has to go
21:48:50domonokycheck if a given path exists, is a lot easier then full autodetection..
21:49:20wodzStrange - according to manual 8.5.2 there should be option General Settings->System->Battery->Charge During USB Connection and I don't see it in 3.2 nor current build
21:50:31rasherwodz: The manual is not infallible
21:50:55wodzOk. so I am supposed to look for this option
21:51:09rasherI'm not sure such an option exists anymore
21:51:29rasherAnyone.. gevaerts?
21:51:49*gevaerts again explains the difference between knowing about USB and knowing about charging :)
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21:53:40Davide-NYCjhMikeS: ping
21:53:47wodzOk, so I ask again how can I charge ipod mini using USB cable?
21:54:06wodzemergency disk mode is the only solution?
21:54:07archivatorAFAIK, it only exists for targets with HAVE_USB_CHARGING. I only know that because dreamlayers' patch to enable charging on iPods defines that.
21:55:20archivatorwodz: if it's anything like the Video, it should charge, only extremely slowly. That is, don't do any file transfers and you should be fine :) Also, you can hold Menu to continue using Rockbox while it's charging from USB.
21:55:53wodzwell it is not charging it is discharging this way
21:56:06wodzI tested this
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21:56:42Davide-NYCTo the devs: My Gigabeat S with a recent single-boot bootloader has yet again resulted in the dreaded OF restore procedure.
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21:57:10archivatorwodz: does it say discharging or charging in System->Debug->View battery?
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21:57:59Davide-NYCi do not know if it's the particular OF that I have on my beast or if there is some subtle hardware difference or if there may be an actual hardware problem.
21:58:22Davide-NYCAll I can figure is that with the dual-boot bootloader I have no such problem.
21:58:55Davide-NYCMore mystery than clarity but I thought I would report it regardless.
21:59:48Davide-NYCIf any of the devs want the unit for testing I'd be glad to mail it to them (within the lower 48)
22:00:10 Quit Davide-NYC ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]")
22:00:12wodzarchivator: it says charger: absent
22:00:47domonokybluebrother: new screenshot:
22:00:52wodzbut from the other hand it displays icon about being plugged
22:02:58archivatorwodz: I don't have a Mini. On my Video, there is a second page with more data (USB pwr, charger pwr, battery : (dis)charging, etc). Do you have anything like that or is "Charger: absent" somewhere above/below the voltage graph?
22:03:32bluebrotherdomonoky: much nicer imo.
22:03:50 Join FOAD [0] (
22:05:53wodzarchivator: below graph (the second page) I have: Power status: \nBattery: 4.054V\n\nCharger: absent
22:06:10BigBambiWhat does within the lower 48 mean? (w.r.t. Davide-NYC)
22:06:43 Join HBK [0] (
22:07:03archivatorwodz: that's quite different than what I have.The fact that you get an empty power status line is cause for concern, though. What build are you running?
22:07:37BigBambidomonoky: You have reversed / (\)s! :)
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22:08:23wodzarchivator: r20609-090403
22:09:20bluebrotherBigBambi: no, he only forgot QDir::toNativeSeparators() ;-)
22:09:45BigBambiaha, that old chesnut! :)
22:10:10bluebrotherQt's internal representation of path delimiters is the / (fortunately)
22:10:18domonokyBigBambi: :-)
22:10:34archivatorwodz: I'm out of ideas then. Leave it plugged for the night and see what happens. Also, is it connected directly to your PC or through a hub? It could be that you're trying to charge from an unpowered hub. Try changing the USB port..
22:10:49*domonoky added a QDir::toNativeSeparators(..) for the gui :-)
22:11:11BigBambihehe, good work :)
22:12:34wodzarchivator: It is connected directly to usb port (laptop). I left it connected last night and it discharged completly. Anyway rebooting ipod into emergency disk mode makes charging work so this is rockbox problem
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22:14:51archivatorwodz: it's a known bug that the iPods charge slowly from USB but I didn't know the Minis don't charge at all... i.e., FS #8802
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22:16:10Unhelpfularchivator: i still think the idea of registering a callback to process samples for visualization might be the best way to go in the long run.
22:16:34bluebrothermy mini charges over usb
22:17:23gevaertsit may depend on how old the battery is I guess
22:17:31archivatorUnhelpful: I agree. I just don't feel that confident tinkering with that part of rockbox. I prefer if someone else did it.
22:18:17archivatorwodz: are you sure your laptop is giving power to the USB ports? Do other devices charge?
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22:19:31wodzarchivator: I don't have other device to try but I am able to charge this Ipod but only in emergency disk mode/original firmware
22:19:46archivatorOh, right, forgot about that, sorry.
22:20:20Nico_Pdomonoky: I know that checking for the existence of a path is easier than autodetection, but couldn't rbutil attempt to autodetect if the configured path doesn't exist?
22:20:56domonokyNico_P: yes thats possible..
22:21:19Nico_Pit would certainly be quite nice IMHO
22:22:15archivatorwodz: Well, you *could* try the patch in FS #8802 (last time I tried it, it worked fairly well, though its long term effects are unknown) .. Nothing more we can do to help, I'm afraid.
22:23:18wodzarchivator: thanks for the reference - I am just reading FS #8802
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22:34:53wodzarchivator: I glanced at patch You mentioned - it is for mini2G/nano/color/4g/video. I have mini1G so booting into emergency disko mode is probably the simplest solution
22:35:31wodzmaybe this should be put into manual?
22:35:58archivatorThe way I see it, the manual is for features, not bugs :)
22:37:22wodzarchivator: You can always say like M$ - it is not a bug - it is a feature :-)
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23:05:21bluebrotherdomonoky: ok, got it working. ipodpatcher now uses the disk number that is matching the mountpoint
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23:05:47domonokynice :-)
23:05:48bluebrotherw32 only for now but that's not the issue. Will add sansapatcher now
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23:06:28domonokybut we should really release a new version, before we commit all this changes :-)
23:08:54bluebrotherof *course* it's working somewhat different for the sansa. hmpf
23:09:19Unhelpfulamiconn: i had an idea for a (relatively) clean way that WPS-embedded plugins that want to do more than visualization might be able to handle some input... it's a *bit* hackish, i think, but probably of fairly small cost to core. the plugin API would have a new function that registers a hook to replace calls to get_action. a TSR plugin would register a button handler, WPS would call the hook instead of directly calling get_action, and t
23:09:19Unhelpfulhe hook function would put any actions that it decides to "steal" into an event queue for the plugin to read from.
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23:10:31Unhelpfulit could even be used more generally to have *other* TSR plugins react to input, but i think that that would be a horrid mess (plugins having to have a keymap for each core context, and decide which keys they would override for their controls in each case) compared to just having WPS use the hook, and other parts of core ignore it.
23:11:32*amiconn wouldn't like that
23:11:40amiconnIt breaks consistency
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23:12:40Unhelpfuli don't think it's a huge break in consistency if the user is aware that the particular plugin steals some input events. the more general case, i don't think i'll even try to argue for - it's an awful mess to even think about.
23:13:05LloreanUnhelpful: Isn't that, in a way, TSR plugins *as* WPS?
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23:14:47webguest95I am totally random. Nobody knows who I am except the people I talk to in real life. Don't bother thinking about why I'm here doing this, because there is no real reason. It's not like you haven't done this type of thing before. You're humans! It's common psychology. I'm off now. Take care, everyone!
23:16:06UnhelpfulLlorean: it needn't be. a vis plugin with multiple modes might steal just one button, to switch them. something like the advanced play control plugin we talked about a few weeks ago might have a "vis mode" where it can embed in the WPS, and show data about the playlist, and what it's doing to it, and take input to modify playback without leaving WPS. it would probably be best to use a single hotkey there, too, and pass all input throug
23:16:06Unhelpfulh until the hotkey is pressed.
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23:18:01amiconnImo the plugin should have an ordinary config menu itself, which is invoked via the "quit plugin"
23:18:56amiconnThat would work without any additional button, which simply isn't available on several targets
23:20:06Unhelpfulfair enough. probably best to tackle vis plugins before even talking about being able to manipulate them, anyway :)
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23:23:20Unhelpfula vis plugin would have to be TSR, since the WPS itself is running in the main thread, right? what exactly would we need... a tag that indicates a target for visualization, and a way for the TSR plugin's thread to know if the WPS is being displayed or not?
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23:32:57domonokyUnhelpful: if we really want visualisation/wps plugins, it would be perhaps better to create a seperate plugin system for this ?
23:33:28amiconnImo that would be a waste
23:34:01amiconnA visualisation and an ordinary plugin never need to run at the same time
23:34:13gevaertsI think we need to make them able to coexist with battery_bench, but that's it
23:34:33Lloreangevaerts: i'm not sure that's really necessary
23:34:41domonokythey could use the same space in ram, but perhaps need a different api ?
23:34:44LloreanWe can just say "you don't need to battery bench plugins", which we do already
23:34:45amiconnThe only exception would be other tsr plugins - but those are rare, and imo it isn't necessary to support them together with visualisations
23:35:35gevaertsWe could do it by changing the load address of tsr plugins. They tend to be tiny anyway, so we can push them to the back of the plugin buffer
23:36:41amiconnThat would be very difficult
23:37:00amiconnThe plugin buffer is not only used by plugins
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23:37:24*gevaerts admits to be ignorant about most of this
23:37:35amiconnThe playlist viewer also uses it - that's btw the reason why a tsr plugin *must* nut use plugin_get_buffer()
23:37:35gevaertswhat else uses it?
23:37:47gevaertsah ok
23:39:20gevaertswe could let the tsrs sit where they are currently, and put the wps plugins a bit further into the buffer. Those shouldn't ever interfere with the playlist viewer
23:39:42gevaertsThey just get less room, but the current ones don't use all of it anyway
23:40:16*amiconn thinks that it would be too much effort for just a single plugin
23:40:26*Llorean thinks not pretending visualizations aren't plugins is the best way
23:40:53LloreanIf we just keep it clear up front to users that visualizations conflict with plugins / TSR plugins, we're not going to run into problems later when they start getting bigger and people find out about the 'hidden' limits
23:41:52gevaertsThey are different anyway. They aren't allowed to use the full screen, so they'd get a viewport on startup
23:42:14amiconnThey could be dual plugins
23:42:35amiconnFullscreen when started on their own, and confined to a viewport when started from the wps
23:42:54gevaertswith different entry points?
23:43:00gevaertsthat would work as well
23:43:21amiconnSame entry point, using the start parameter
23:43:45*amiconn thinks about oscilloscope as an example (which work on both hwcodec and swcodec)
23:43:57amiconn(except Player, but not for display reasons)
23:44:38gevaertsok. So start would be a magic value meaning "call get_display_viewport() to find out where you're supposed to draw" ?
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23:44:51gevaertss/start/the parameter/
23:45:48amiconnWell, the start parameter is just a pointer. For viewers it points to the path to the file/dir it was invoked on, for normal plugins it's currently unised
23:46:03amiconn*unused even
23:46:52gevaertsok. I guess the wps (or wherever it sits) code that decides to load this plugin startes a thread for it?
23:47:24amiconnThe plugin would start the thread, same way as the tsr plugins
23:48:45gevaertsThen you have a plugin that sometimes runs in its own thread and sometimes doesn't. Wouldn't that make it too complicated?
23:50:03amiconnI don't think so, and it would keep the logic out of the core
23:50:18Unhelpfulwould get_display_viewport() work for "normal" plugin use as well?
23:50:37LloreanShouldn't plugins always have a parent viewport anyway? Just, normally, it being the fullscreen one?
23:50:50amiconnThe wps could pass a pointer to the viewport as the parameter
23:51:07amiconnNULL automagically means "default viewport"
23:51:09Unhelpfuland it's NULL if you start the plugin via the menu?
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23:52:06Unhelpfulok, and if it's non-NULL, you start your plugin's draw code in a thread, and presumably there's some way to check whether or not the viewport it uses is currently visible?
23:52:19amiconnWhat's more difficult is the communication whether the wps is visible or not
23:53:01amiconnMaybe viewports could have a visibility flag
23:53:28gevaertsI think the plugin should exit when the wps is not visible. That keeps things simple
23:53:44gevaertsTo know when that is, just register a callback
23:53:49amiconnAnother problem may be if the user selects a new wps while the vis plugin is running
23:53:59gevaertsSame thing. Exit
23:54:09amiconngevaerts: tsr plugins already do register a callback
23:54:09LloreanHow do we track whether a viewport's visible to update it in the WPS?
23:54:32Unhelpfulhow exactly do you start the vis plugin, if it only runs while WPS is visible? is it specified in a WPS tag?
23:54:32LloreanOr is that not tracked as part of the viewport?
23:55:01Unhelpfuli think working like TSR plugins do now might be easiest/best
23:55:03gevaertshm, what about viewports that change size?
23:55:03amiconn...which is called by the plugin loader when a new plugin is about to be loaded. Of course its functionality could be extended
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23:56:01amiconngevaerts, Llorean: Exiting when the wps isn't visible might be easy, but it means reloading the plugin whenever the user returns from using the menu etc
23:56:33 Quit planetbeing (Client Quit)
23:56:42gevaertshm, true. I'd go for a callback that tells it about viewport updates then, including visibility
23:57:22amiconnWell, if viewports have a flag that indicates visibility, the whole communication could go through the viewport struct
23:57:44amiconnIf a new wps is loaded, it would change the vis viewport's parameters
23:58:06amiconnOf course this would mean that the plugin would need to check viewport parameters for every update
23:58:23amiconn...and using uncached ram on dualcore
23:58:45Unhelpfulamiconn: do we really want to attach all that data to every viewport? wouldn't that make the struct larger - times however many viewports you use? perhaps a special global struct for the vis viewport's state would be better?
23:58:49amiconnBut the latter also applies to structures used in callback communication

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