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#rockbox log for 2009-04-06

00:00:14 Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
00:04:13 Quit synergist ("changing servers")
00:04:52 Join synergist [0] (
00:09:54pixelmasoap: put it on Mr. Someone's todo list? ;)
00:10:36soapI'd do it, I've brainstormed on it, but "The Rockbox Lifestyle" is stuck in my head like a bad meme.
00:15:09obosoap: Rockbox Ecosystem?
00:15:32 Join Ubuntuxer [0] (
00:16:59JdGordonsoap: (just saw your message from 3 hours ago)... apparently no we dont trust all devs here because only a select few actually have ops in here
00:17:17JdGordonso we can suggest all we want, but if someone is difficult we can do sfa about it
00:17:39soapthat's a nice one, obo.
00:17:55soapJdGordon: I thought the idea was to grant op by cloak?
00:19:27JdGordonthe usual answer given is that we need a consistant response which from everyone who has spoken about that has called that a BS excuse
00:20:13JdGordonPaulJam: bah, ok, yeah I see what your talking about... that needs to be fixed :(
00:21:16soapJdGordon: was that first line to me? If so I can't parse it.
00:21:44JdGordonit was
00:22:06 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]")
00:22:30JdGordonthe answer from scorche (maybe others) the last few times it was brought up is that if everyone has ops then there is no consistancy when it comes to kick/ban/devoiceing of trouble users...
00:22:40JdGordonthe fact is there isnt any now anyway
00:22:48 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
00:23:37JdGordonI dont care so much now, but when I was in .au it really pissed me off that I would be the only dev around when morons come in and can't do anything about it
00:25:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:25:40JdGordonPaulJam: hmm... its apparently not as easy as I thought to reproduce...
00:29:21JdGordonah crap... it seems there is a buffering problem with 9795.. this patch is going to get too huge to not break stuff
00:30:06*JdGordon wants to add some debug tags to the wps
00:32:52UbuntuxerI need your help the improvements for my patch FS #10099: I have tried to implement your suggestions, but I can't find the fault in the struct.
00:33:16UbuntuxerPlease have a look.,
00:34:42JdGordonUbuntuxer: I'm not sure what you are trying to improve there... but i have some general comments...
00:34:51JdGordoncan you modify an existing plugin to use your lib?
00:35:18JdGordonand I would like to see display_text() accept a viewport so plugins could use this but not lose the entire screen
00:35:18Ubuntuxeryes I have think of it, Which?
00:37:15UbuntuxerI will try to implement the viewport idea.
00:37:45JdGordoncan someone with SVN do a quick test for me? (you'll need a wps which has the disk activity icon of some sort)... start playback and wait 5s or so, then skip to the next track... doe shte activity stop? if it does have a look in the buffering debug screen and does it look like its way under where you'd exptect it?
00:38:07JdGordonUbuntuxer: accpeitng a viewport also means using the colours specifed in it already... black on white isnt always wanted
00:40:10 Quit cspotcode ("Leaving.")
00:40:16Ubuntuxerok, is there a need to set it back to previous if it exits
00:40:28 Join cspotcode [0] (
00:40:39JdGordonnot if you use the supplied viewport
00:40:51pixelmaJdGordon: I'll test
00:40:54JdGordonit is then up to the caller to set the viewport back
00:40:57JdGordonpixelma: thanks
00:42:51pixelmaon my c200: "disk" activity stops and buffering doesn't show any weirdness on first glance - what numbers should I check exactly?
00:44:44JdGordonif its happening.. the bottom 3 bars should be no where near full
00:45:09pixelmahmm, on second try "alloc" and "usefl" is lower than expected and buffering also stopped very quickly after the skip
00:45:41JdGordonsweet... ok thanks, that means its no a problem with the patch
00:45:44pixelmathe c200 buffering thread screen has no bottom bars due to lack of space
00:46:19 Part domonoky
00:46:42JdGordonthis means that track skipping stops buffering, which there could be an argument for keeping
00:48:46pixelmaonly happened once so far though (out of 4..5 tries)
00:49:19JdGordonflash targets might be hard to reproduce
00:49:29JdGordonalso it doesnt really matter for them anyway
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00:59:26 Quit ender` (" On the contrary, if you never procreate, neither will your kids.")
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01:08:33 Join Taylor [0] (
01:13:46 Join ashic [0] (
01:14:10 Part Taylor
01:14:16 Join Taylor [0] (
01:14:50ashici have a v-bop mp4 player does rockbox supports it
01:15:18PaulJamthe frontpage lists all supported targets.
01:15:23ashicor how can i use rockbox for my mp4 player
01:15:44Taylorashic: that mp3 is actually not supported
01:15:58ashicthnx taylor
01:16:25ashicis there any way i can use it
01:16:41ashicso i can use it as a wifi phone
01:16:57Taylorhere is the link to the builds page:
01:17:12TaylorThere, you will find all supported mp3/mp4 players
01:17:57TaylorAnd no, I do not believe you can port rockbox to it. You may want to google aorund for a port. (who knows, it might have been done). Or, if you know what you are doing, you can do it yourself :)
01:18:08krazykit`ashic, the short answer is no. the long answer is "only if you do the very hard work of writing the port yourself"
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01:19:00 Join TBOL3 [0] (
01:19:04Taylorbasically, yes.
01:19:08ashictaylr krazykit
01:19:14ashici have one doubt
01:19:23ashicis rockbox like ipod linux
01:19:32scorchein what way?
01:20:38TaylorGUI wise, no. I guess one way it is similar is it enables you to break away from the usual strict Apple OS, and load your own apps.
01:20:52scorchea lot more than just GUI...
01:21:15ashicwhen we install it does it erase the firmware of the player , or add it in the grub
01:21:34scorchethere is no "grub", and it is dual-boot by default
01:21:50TaylorIpodLinux is more POSIX based (sort of for techies) RockBox is essentially a music OS, but it is much more than the Apple firmware.
01:22:07JdGordonTaylor: time to stop talking....
01:22:16TaylorThere is no 'grub'
01:22:22ashicthnx taylor
01:22:25scorchei just said that...
01:22:36Taylori know... i just typed it..
01:23:13ashicif i want to use my mp4 playr with rockbox i have to write the port
01:23:28TaylorBut, its not that easy :)
01:23:35 Join gkahla [0] (
01:23:35ashici know
01:24:01ashicto write the port we should have the firmware details
01:24:04ashicisnt ot
01:24:09TaylorBut, if you did succeed, it would be one more mp3 player officially supported by RockBox
01:24:21 Join dreamlayers [0] (
01:24:21 Join yash [0] (
01:24:54yashHi all,
01:24:57ashictaylr the mp3 plyrs suportd by rockbox, can we use it as a wifi phone
01:25:53scorcheashic: is there something wrong with your vowel buttons?
01:26:22TaylorUse it as a wifi phone? Not unless your mp3 player comes with a wifi chip :)
01:26:35scorchewe require people to speak "real english" here due to the large number of people relying on machine translation here...
01:26:51scorcheTaylor: and not just that...a wifi stack would need to be written, drivers, etc
01:26:54ashicfor u wht i am typing is spanish
01:26:54krazykit`ashic, none of the current rockbox targets have wifi, so there are no drivers, no network stack, and no VOIP software, so you'd have to write that in addition to the basics of the port
01:27:33scorcheashic: it would mean typing "u" as "you", "wht" as "what", etc
01:27:54ashicsorry scorche
01:28:04ashici will type fully
01:28:15gkahlaOn the wiki, the SamsungAMS port is on the Status page as "Sansa V2 Family", right?
01:29:23scorchegkahla: yes...since sansa implemented more devices, we changed the terminology to "sansa AMS" due to it not being as may not have been changed over in all pages
01:30:05saratogathe front page really needs to be fixed to imply that they're the same thing
01:30:07gkahlagot a Samsung e280v2, and was disappointed to find there wasn't a rockbox port :(
01:30:34gkahladurr - you're right, it's a
01:30:54gkahla...and if I could find home-row, I might seem less spastic.
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01:32:06Taylorgkahla: By chance, is it a fuze?
01:32:41ashicis rockbox an OS or a mp4 player
01:32:50moosTaylor: he mentioned already sansa e280v2
01:32:59gkahlaTaylor - nope, it's one with the color screen
01:33:12TaylorRockBox is an OS :)
01:33:13scorcheashic: rockbox is an OS
01:33:14gkahlarockbox is a replacement OS for mp3 players
01:33:40ashicbut its not a linux os
01:33:50ashiclinux flavour
01:34:13TaylorNo. If you want an linux-like firmware, go with IpodLinux
01:34:18gkahladoes anyone have a preference about music management software with a rockbox player? Something that would work on Debian or Ubuntu?
01:35:10gkahlaiPods have iTunes, what is the best app to take the role Rockbox's of iTunes?
01:35:56TaylorRhythmbox, Hippo, GtKpod, are all some examples of music managent softwares to use with RockBox
01:36:30gkahlaI've got a video ipod and an older sansa e230 with Rockbox on them -
01:36:46 Join ultrasonic [0] (n=manohar@
01:36:46gkahlamight try out those, thanks Taylor
01:37:58Taylorgkahla: another good one to mention would be floola.
01:39:04gkahlaI'm running pan-OS desktops, but really prefer the BSDs. Floola would be cool - but need to check it against BSD's linux compatibility layer
01:39:16rasherThis is not on topic for #rockbox.
01:39:25moosplease guys stay on topic!
01:39:39ashicexactly moos
01:40:09 Quit ashic ("Ex-Chat")
01:40:42gkahlasorry folks
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01:45:23yashhi all, I'm a GSoC applicant having been assigned a task.
01:45:35yashI'm posting the exact wordings first.
01:45:43 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
01:45:47yashWrite a stubbed codec that so that when a file with the right extension is clicked in Rockbox or the right file is buffered, the .codec spoofs some information to the WPS to tell you the Title is "Codec works", waits 10 seconds elapsing time, then goes on to the next track
01:46:15yashI would like to explain what it is about and
01:46:26yashplz comment if you have something in mind.
01:47:43yashA dummy codec runs in the background. Whenever a track begins playing it asks the WPS screen to say "codec works", waits for 10 seconds and asks the WPS to clear the screen of "codec works".
01:48:20yashOnce this track is played completely and another track begins, it does the same thing.
01:49:22yashI would like to know if someone has comments on this.
01:50:34 Quit moos ("Time to catch some sleeps")
01:51:05rasheryash: I'm afraid you've come at an inopportunate time. The best advice I can give is to look in the wiki for a page describing how codecs work. I'm pretty sure there is one in there somewhere
01:51:35rasheryash: This might be one of the least active times of the week on irc
01:52:07yashah, ok. I get it. I will look into the wiki pages. Thanks
01:52:30pixelmaPaulJam, JdGordon: you can confuse next track info with SVN. I couldn't find a recipe to reproduce yet but maybe that's the same (I mostly see this when manipulating the playlist in the playlist viewer and returning). Did you compare PaulJam?
01:55:39 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
01:56:29JdGordonpixelma: yeah, which is why im itching to commit... I dont tihnk its any worse with the patch
02:01:52JdGordonyash: I can help you out a bit...
02:02:29JdGordonthats a nasty task... which application is this for?
02:03:04JdGordonwma pro :)
02:03:19 Part Taylor
02:05:56MTJdGordon : I've been assigned the same task (stubbed codec) .. does the codec actually has to do anything at all other than making the file run for 10 seconds ?
02:07:01 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
02:07:55JdGordonand fake some metadata...
02:08:59MTAh yes, about the metadata part :) ..
02:09:29JdGordonthat part shouldnt be too hard... have a look at apps/metadata.c and the apps/metadata/ folder
02:09:30yashGordon, just now saw the message.
02:09:34 Quit HellDragon (Client Quit)
02:09:35Unhelpfulmetadata reading is in core, isn't it?
02:09:57yashso i think you have misunderstood or i have :)
02:10:18yashthe codec doesnt need to make the file run for 10 sec, but rather
02:10:19JdGordonthats a pretty safe bet :)
02:10:25 Join HellDragon [0] (
02:10:26MTI know this should be the easier part
02:11:02yashwhen a track starts, print "codec works", clear after 10 secs.
02:11:10yashand do the same for the next track.
02:11:16 Part cmwslw ("Ex-Chat")
02:11:27MTbut something weird is happening and the metadata aren't displayed , anyway I have to go now (have to wake up in 4 hours :( ) .. I'll try again later
02:11:45JdGordonyash: no, that sounds dangerous... I would assume the task to being make it look like the track is actually being decodec and is 10s long
02:12:09 Quit dmb ("Leaving")
02:12:41yashoh i got it Gordon.
02:12:56yashi will repeat what I have understood, plz check.
02:13:24JdGordonyash: you should alwys use the full nick if you want to have someone in your message.. or it wont get hilighted
02:14:17 Quit PaulJam (".")
02:14:31yashoh ok will do that.
02:14:31 Join dmb [0] (n=dmb@unaffiliated/dmb)
02:16:03yashJdGordon: when a file with a right extension (supported by rockbox) is clicked, this codec runs, prints "codec works", waits for 10 sec and goes to next track.
02:16:56JdGordonno, instead of pritinging "codec works" put that string into the tag info (mp3entry struct) for the "track"
02:16:58yashGordon: it basically replaces the running of any other codec.
02:17:26 Quit dmb (Client Quit)
02:17:57Unhelpfulmy impression is that it is to be any entirely new codec, that handles files with some made-up extension
02:18:07JdGordoncodecs must never EVER try writing anything to the screen.... EVER!
02:18:10yashGordon: ok, so that the tag is displayed on the screen, and hence "codec works" will also be displayed.
02:18:45yashyep Gordon, when I said print, i was saying ask the display screen to print it for you.
02:19:34yashUnhelpful: i don't think it should run for a made-up extension.
02:19:46yashi will post the words again:
02:20:22 Join dmb [0] (n=dmb@unaffiliated/dmb)
02:20:24Unhelpfulyou needn't, i saw them
02:20:51yash"when a file with the right extension"
02:21:20yashthe extension supported by rockbox i understand.
02:21:54yashGordon: the title should be "codec works".
02:22:10JdGordonJdGordon is my nick... not Gordon
02:22:35Unhelpfulmany types, and therefore extensions, are supported by rockbox. i don't think the task is about trying to replace all rockbox codecs, but just to give you experience writing a codec for rockbox. a new codec should use a new extension - a made-up one since it's not actually playing audio.
02:22:47yashJdGordon: sorry, do you think putting it to the "tag info" will help it display as a title.
02:22:57yashJdGordon: i don't think so.
02:23:29JdGordonI'm telling you, thats the way it HAS to be done :)
02:24:01yashUnhelpful: "Unhelpful" sounds amusing, thanx.
02:24:18yashJdGordon: ok, i get it.
02:24:54yashUnhelpful, JdGordon: i will summarize what i will do.
02:25:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:27:19yashCreate a dummy codec for a dummy extension. When a file with that extension is clicked, or it is buffered for play because it is the next track, run this dummy codec which will add "codec works" to the tag, wait for 10 seconds and ask rockbox to switch to next track.
02:29:08yashexcellent, i have understood what i need to do, thanx a lot JdGordon and Unhelpful.
02:30:22 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
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02:39:49JdGordon... here goes nothing!
02:40:30yashJdGordon, just wondering how long have you been contributing to Rockbox.
02:40:51yashJdGordon, you seem to know quite a bit :)
02:41:17JdGordonsince august 07 I think
02:41:30yashoh ok thanx.
02:42:33 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
02:42:45JdGordonaug 06 even!
02:43:13yashJdGordon: oh ok, trying hard to remember :)
02:43:33yashJdGordon: may i know what you do apart from this?
02:43:45JdGordonas little as possible... :)
02:43:48 Join raveinmycubicle [0] (
02:43:56JdGordonI just started working for microsoft
02:44:31yashJdGordon: ah, i'm an MSFT aspirant, you couldn't get an internship.
02:44:50yashi mean "who couldn't get an internship".
02:45:17JdGordon:( tough break... yeah I got an internship last year, before the economy went down the gutter
02:46:56yashJdGordon: this might sound off-topic but do you know how I should prepare to get into MSFT, Google?
02:47:32JdGordonvery off topic, and no... not really
02:47:45 Join ohmecks [0] (
02:47:53yashJdGordon: I love developing code, and want to work for the best. ok, sorry about that.
02:49:01dreamlayersI have some patches which I should probably commit, but since this would be my first time, I feel I need to talk about them here first.
02:49:14JdGordondreamlayers: you probably dont :)
02:49:14yashJdGordon: ok, I think I need to leave to do my assignment. will catch you later.
02:50:49 Part ohmecks
02:50:57dreamlayersJdGordon: You mean I should probably just go ahead with it?
02:50:58 Quit yash ()
02:51:34JdGordondreamlayers: pretty much... apart from noone else being around now...
02:51:44JdGordonyou'll get yelled at if anything really bad happens :)
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02:56:59*JdGordon wonders about the big delat
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03:00:14Nico_PJdGordon: congratulations on the commit :)
03:00:23 Quit KBH ()
03:00:59JdGordondont thank me just yet... wait and see what the repercussions are :)
03:01:13JdGordonI wanted to wait for more comments, but got itchy
03:01:27JdGordonnext step is moving cuesheet into playback, if that sounds good to you?
03:02:35Nico_Pit does
03:02:58JdGordonwanna reply to that dev ml I did last week? :)
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03:09:48 Part raveinmycubicle
03:10:59 Quit AndyIL (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:11:07UnhelpfulJdGordon: want summaries on per-symbol deltas for that? it might not tell you anything you didn't know, though...
03:11:08Nico_PJdGordon: not now (I should go to bed), but I'll try to
03:11:53JdGordonUnhelpful: I dont really care that much... :)
03:13:43Unhelpfuli'd love to drop that tool into svn, it just still has what i feel are a few rough edges... mostly bunches of symbols that have numbers tacked onto their names, which get flagged as different... i'm guessing they're generated symbols for string/array/struct literals?
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03:19:10dreamlayersUnhelpful: Is that tool available for download somewhere?
03:21:02 Quit midijunkie ("?(???~~)?")
03:21:55Unhelpfuldreamlayers: not at present. it's a very short python script that calls nm, i can just put it on a pastebin
03:24:19Unhelpfulmy todo list is pretty much taking map files (instead of object) as input, and doing something about generated symbols
03:26:51dreamlayersUnhelpful: Thanks for the script.
03:27:33dreamlayersMap files don't list static symbols, so the ability look at object files is a good thing.
03:27:49JdGordonUnhelpful: maybe commit it anyway so others can play with it untill you fiinsh it?
03:28:54Unhelpfuldreamlayers: if the static symbol ends up getting inlined, it still disappears... although its callers show the delta, then.
03:30:16Unhelpfulany ideas about the funny-symbols-with-numbers issue?
03:33:42Unhelpfuli assume the ones like "_lines.5436" or "_message.3953" are literal constants of some (large) type, but there are also such as "_plugins_menu_items__.4048"
03:34:22Unhelpfulthese are reported as unique in each object, because of the number, so you can really only scan the output to see if any of those have different sizes
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03:40:13Lloreansoap: How about something simple like "Related Topics" rather than something like "The Rockbox Ecosystem"
03:41:15saratogaUnhelpful: what does that tool actually do?
03:41:37 Quit EspeonEefi (Client Quit)
03:41:48Unhelpfulsaratoga: it reports per-symbol and total size deltas between two objects, as well as the sizes of symbols unique to each.
03:42:28Unhelpfulit can be used to highlight libgcc symbols that have been pulled in or out by a change, or other less obvious sources of weird delta issues
03:45:03 Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
03:45:29*kugel wonders if iap even works with 9795
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03:46:18soapLlorean: I'm completely open to ideas. "Related Topics", though, sounds more open than I thought the original goal was...
03:46:22 Join lymeca [0] (
03:47:00Lloreansoap: Well, the individual board names will still be there to narrow it down
03:47:30kugelJdGordon: the events need to be removed from the wps if other parts of rockbox want to receive them...
03:47:45kugelYou didn't realize that there's only 1 callback per event, did you?
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03:52:05Paddy_Hello? anybody home?
03:54:12Strife89Paddy_: All's quiet on the channel front. ;)
03:55:43Unhelpfulthis isn't really a chat channel, as the guidelines state. if you need help with something, go ahead and ask. :)
03:56:24Paddy_i know, i was just checking
03:56:35Paddy_im just asking, now that ive looked through the forums
03:56:55Paddy_is it possible for rockbox to come out for the 160gb or would it be waste for me to wait for
03:57:29krazykitthe 160gb what?
03:57:38Unhelpfulclassic, right?
03:58:03Paddy_sorry, ipod classic
03:58:17Paddy_i forgot it wasnt selfexplanatory :P
03:59:01Unhelpfulthere's not really much going on with the classic. somebody who has one has to work on it, and there are several tough problems to solve.
03:59:23Paddy_yeah i heard they encrypted the software even more
03:59:25 Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded)
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03:59:43Paddy_i was just wondering if there were anyone working on it because it would be cool to run rockbox
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04:00:53Paddy_anyway thanks
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04:05:52dreamlayersWhy would deltas change if no code changed?
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04:06:32dreamlayersI mean why would there be deltas on the build table on targets where no code changed.
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04:07:29kugeldreamlayers: refresh :)
04:07:31saratogaperhaps theres some slight difference between the gccs used to compile them
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04:09:52JdGordonkugel: thats incorrect
04:11:07JdGordonscratch that.... kugel your bloody wrong...
04:11:34dreamlayerssaratoga: You must be right. It seems like the same server isn't always used for a build, and I guess they don't all have the same gcc.
04:13:06Unhelpfuldreamlayers: there have been small (usually 16-32B) binsize fluctuations in all targets that build the bitmap scaler in core, ever since it was introduced :/
04:13:39kugelJdGordon: oops, in my memory there was a return after the call of the cb
04:14:07JdGordonnono... the word you want is sorry
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04:25:51*dreamlayers is tempted to commit FS #10086
04:29:58saratogadreamlayers: might as well
04:30:05saratogayou'll find out soon enough if it breaks anything
04:32:50*JdGordon has too many patches open :/
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04:36:16dreamlayersJdGordon: I feel I have too many patches open
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04:39:55kugeldreamlayers: what happened about the ipod vido & lcd thing?
04:40:30dreamlayersYou mean the lcd sleep patch?
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04:42:31dreamlayerskugel: The BCM/LCD sleep patch has been in SVN for a while. I'd still like to make two related changes: one small platform-specific fix, and a platform-independent change to backlight.c. The latter should probably be a separate task.
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04:55:07dreamlayersWhen the 5G iPod is shut down, what chips are still powered? I know the LTC4066 is still hooked up to the battery, and the PCF50607 is powered but in sleep mode.
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05:06:58JdGordonhmm... how should the database handle cuesheet subtracks?
05:07:35LloreanThe database isn't aware of cuesheets is it?
05:07:46LloreanMuch like it isn't aware of sub-tracks in NSF files either.
05:08:10JdGordonits not, but things are going to get nasty when cuesheets are moved into playback where they should be
05:08:28kugeldreamlayers: the task is still open, since there was some work left
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05:17:22kugelJdGordon: what's the reassigning of id3/nid3 in the "if (update_track)" part for?
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05:18:46kugelI thought this is handled by the callbacks
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05:23:25JdGordonits very likely a oversight
05:23:45JdGordonanything outside of playback.c was bare minimum for it to work...
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05:30:45LloreanJdGordon: Well multi-track files need a "real" solution anyway, for things like chained oggs, right?
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05:36:45JdGordonwell yes... but there is real and real... the last version of my cuesheet patch added a new event for when the subtrack changed, I'm just not sure thats still a good idea
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05:42:48saratogai don't think that matters much for chained ogg, since you can't know about the chaining without actually decoding the file
05:43:05saratogaor at least walking through it
05:43:16saratogaso the database will never be able to work right with chained ogg files
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05:50:00JdGordonwell, what ould happen is the db will think the same track keeps getting played
05:50:13JdGordonso playcount will go screwey.... but maybe not
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06:23:37martian67who uses ogg subtracks lol?
06:23:57martian67thats kinda like MKV video subtracks
06:24:01martian67sure... but why?
06:24:35LloreanBecause you can concatenate files together and then resplit them later, easily
06:24:36JdGordonogg subtracks arn't currently supported
06:24:46martian67Llorean, the advantage being?
06:25:24Lloreanmartian67: Same one as using cue sheets to manage a single album, really
06:25:35martian67such as?
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06:25:56LloreanNo clue, I don't do it.
06:26:00martian67ahah ;)
06:26:21martian67well for mp3's it made some sense
06:26:26dreamlayers.cue files are only helpful if you don't have gapless playback
06:26:28martian67as true gapless playback wasnt possible
06:26:33martian67but thats not the case for ogg
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06:27:07Lloreanmartian67: True gapless is possible with MP3
06:27:12LloreanIt's just slightly more complicated than with vorbis.
06:27:33martian67well not many decoders support it in any case
06:28:29LloreanOurs does. :-P
06:28:41Unhelpfulbeing able to shuffle albums?
06:29:01JdGordonthats a reason to not use cue...
06:29:04LloreanUnhelpful: "true" gapless.
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06:29:13Unhelpfula feature i've missed on every player i've had, and been told to "fix" by using file-per album.
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06:29:33JdGordonoh, /me misunderstood
06:29:39martian67Unhelpful, thats a hack then
06:29:42JdGordonours does that also :)
06:29:48martian67indeed :)
06:29:59JdGordonwith a caveat or two though
06:30:04Unhelpfulmartian67: as is single-file for gapless. we have a fix for gapless, though. :P
06:30:16martian67well what i mean
06:30:27martian67is why such a thing would be in the ogg container spec
06:30:31martian67escapes me
06:30:53JdGordonjust to say it can be done
06:31:05JdGordonreally there is no reason to have ogg anyway
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06:31:47martian67mp4 is superior anyways
06:31:48Lloreanmartian67: The same reason it's beneficial to be able to cat together MPEG streams, I guess.
06:31:54LloreanYou can edit with _very_ simple tools
06:31:55martian67or AAC-HE
06:32:21Unhelpfulmartian67: direct TCP streaming of multiple ogg vorbis files.
06:32:41martian67Unhelpful, would still be sequential in any case
06:32:48martian67and thats pretty essoterric :)
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06:33:26Unhelpfulyou ask why that would be considered a "feature" ;P
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06:33:49martian67and the fact sub-tracks tend to break the hell out of the expectations
06:33:53martian67of a media player
06:33:58martian67are a pretty major downside imo :/
06:34:13LloreanIt only breaks media players that don't actually meet the spec, though
06:34:41martian67spec relgion is annoying
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06:34:57martian67specs serve a need
06:35:00martian67not visa versa
06:35:25martian67*vise versa
06:35:47JdGordonif there is a spec then you HAVE to code to it.. otherwise whats the point?
06:36:01martian67its rarely so simple
06:36:13Lloreanmartian67: If you're going to say you "support" a file format, it kinda is.
06:36:33martian67well how can you claim to support ogg/vorbis then ;)
06:36:40martian67you clearly dont meet the spec
06:36:45LloreanWe admit it's a problem we have.
06:36:47martian67now, i think you see my point
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06:40:02martian67Llorean, and how many people REALLY care
06:40:15martian67its likely in the single digits
06:40:52dreamlayersmartian67: see FS #9502
06:41:16martian67and yet to consistantly support it would probly require a pretty major rockbox overhaul
06:41:35martian67at least UI wise
06:41:42JdGordonwhat are we talking about now?
06:41:57martian67JdGordon, that complying to a spec isnt the be all and end all
06:42:08martian67and many times, is scarely even nessisary
06:42:24martian67and even counterproductive
06:42:49martian67hence "spec religion"
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06:43:23JdGordonthere is a difference between saying you support the full spec and do things wierdly, and saying you do the full spec (correctly) except certain bits
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07:14:35*JdGordon probably shouldnt be surprised that manually resyncing the cuesheet patch blindy doesnt work first go :p
07:16:44martian67also nice work on ipod 5.5g battery life guys :)
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07:16:54martian67its now exceeding standard firmware for me :)
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07:24:57DarkSpectrumok i've searched like crazy and cant find a flyspray about E200 backlight on hold, normal setting does not work, how do i make a proper bug report?
07:25:33JdGordondoes svn cuesheet show the next subtrack for the next track info?
07:28:48JdGordonno... good :)
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07:35:29*JdGordon seems to have broken the progress bar on non cue files
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08:15:30JdGordonoh shit... anyone seeing wierdness with the progressbar not being updated on the first track on a session?
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08:32:11JdGordonDarkSpectrum: which target? I seem to only be able to repro on the sim
08:34:53DarkSpectrumprogress bar resets to nill
08:35:28DarkSpectrumi'll be happy to test a patch if you want to DCC or email me one,
08:35:54JdGordonso much for my last commit happening smootly then :(
08:37:27DarkSpectrumBTW i am running build 20635
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08:49:33JdGordonwhat the FUCK?! playback is definetly updating the elapsed time correctly... wps has the correct id3 entry... but its still showing 0 for the elapsed for the first track
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09:03:29JdGordonShould I commit a quick fix for the progressbar issue so nobody notices untill it can be tracked down properly? or leave it?
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09:04:09*JdGordon really doesnt like the fix, and is very baffled as to why the bug is happening
09:06:14DarkSpectrumsounds good to me
09:06:45JdGordon is the fix, if anyone wants to commit it today/tonight...
09:06:58Zagora quick fix with a comment shows you know of and is working on the issue. otherwise we are likely to get more bug reports.
09:06:58JdGordonI tihnk i'll wait and see if anyone complains
09:07:39DarkSpectrumcrap i dont have a build environ on this puter, have to wait till i get home to patch/compile
09:08:01JdGordonI'm more worried that If I commit that it will be forgotten about
09:08:17JdGordonits nothing major which is hwy im not too concerned
09:08:19DarkSpectrumJdGordon: could you look at one more bug for me please?
09:09:06DarkSpectrumon the sansa E200 if you chose the setting "backlight on hold: normal" the backlight will not come on at all with any button press when the lock is enabled
09:09:37DarkSpectrumit used to work a in 3.0 but has been broke ever since 3.1
09:10:52DarkSpectrumoh it also happens on the Sansa C200 as well
09:11:39JdGordonits not something my commit broke so im not worried about it... (its midnight here and im about to head off)
09:11:57DarkSpectrumotay :)
09:12:35DarkSpectrumi'm terrified to post a flyspray about it because i really dont word things well
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09:20:20*JdGordon apologises for FS #10102 and heads to bed
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11:56:18jaykaythe manual says in 1.2 "getting more help" something about reporting bugs... it says the same in "user feedback"
11:56:31jaykayis "getting more help" the right place for that?
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12:08:11jaykayand are the forums and the mailing list really "support channels"?
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12:27:59GodEaterjaykay, I would say yes to that.
12:28:34jaykayGodEater: to both?
12:29:24GodEateralthough I don't subscribe to it personally, I'm given to understand the mailling list is the preferred support channel for our blind / sight challenged users
12:29:40GodEaterand the forums are definitely used for support questions a great deal.
12:30:10linuxstbjaykay: How else would you describe the forums and (user) mailing list?
12:30:13jaykayok, i just wondered if they are really *channels*
12:30:22jaykaylinuxstb: no idea :)
12:31:14jaykayGodeater: and with both i meant my first question about "getting more help" ;)
12:34:58GodEaterjaykay, my answer stands ;)
12:35:08jaykayok :)
12:35:32GodEaterand yes, I'd say the word "channels" is the right one to use
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13:17:41Lssdid the theme function go away again?
13:17:48Lssit thought it worked a few days back
13:18:21PaulJamLss: do you maen in rbutil?
13:18:44amiconnDarkSpectrum: The backlight is never supposed to come on when hold is enabled
13:19:13amiconnBacklight on hold: normal just means that the normal timeout (and caption backlight etc) is still used when enabling hold
13:19:35PaulJamLss: this will be fixed in the next release of rbutil afaik. until then you can install them manually.
13:19:53Lssok sure
13:20:16Lssi'll probably make my own though because most dont seem to work well with unicode stuff
13:20:36amiconnI mean it is never supposed to come on when pressing a button. That's the purpose of a hold switch - disabling the buttons
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13:25:01gevaertsActually, I've noticed some inconsistency with the Backlight on hold setting. Sometimes the backlight turns off immediately when swithing on hold, sometimes it doesn't
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13:32:03pixelmaworks reliably for me on my c200 (I set it to "normal" backlight timeout and let the WPS only show album art on hold (or a "locked" message), so would be quite obvious if it didn't work
13:32:49gevaertsMine is set to turn off when on hold. Sometimes it doesn't
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13:49:47jaykayanother question regarding the manual... is there a strict rule when spaces i front of lines should be used? e.g after /opt or /item... and how many of them should i use?
13:50:05jaykay*in front
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13:52:55pixelmarasher: will people uploading a greyscale or colour 160x128 theme see anything of the failing for the M:Robe? (e.g. of the %X backdrop tag)?
13:53:58pixelmaif that is used of course
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13:58:09pixelmajaykay: you mean the indentation? I saw that handled quite differently from file to file and have to admit that I just looked at what was there and did the same. It's used to make the file better readable so there peobably should be a rule but I'm not aware of one (besides the general Rockbox coding style guidelines which seem to not be used in most .tex files, maybe they didn't work nicely there?)
13:59:14jaykaypixelma: are 2 or 4 spaces used more often?
14:02:02pixelmayou can find both quite often :\
14:02:41B4gderthe 10 latest build rounds and the servers that needed >= 200 seconds to perform a build
14:04:43B4gderat least no server was that slow in all rounds
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14:12:56amiconnB4gder: Is there a reason why the "All times" values are not in the same order as the builds themselves (in the master log)?
14:13:56B4gderI don't remember but they might get added to an hash array
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14:30:35jaykay"Firewire detection is not supported in Rockbox at the moment. Please use USB only."
14:30:52jaykaythats from the manual for ipod 3g/4g/color/mini
14:31:22jaykaythe one thing is that its a note in latex but not in the output and i don't know why
14:32:21jaykaythe second one is that in "manual installation" the manual says "connect your player via usb or firewire"
14:37:03pixelmais the note enclosed in an \opt or \nopt somehow?
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14:40:37jaykay \note{Firewire detection is not supported in Rockbox at
14:40:39jaykaythe moment. Please use USB only.}
14:40:57jaykayand its not a note in the manuals for those four players
14:42:17pixelmaand I would think that it is possible to connect via firewire for the installation because you are using the OF's disk mode anyways though I'm not sure how ipodpatcher handles it
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14:42:57pixelmajaykay: is there a second } after this too, and is this in SVN?
14:48:00jaykaypixelma: in svn it looks like this
14:48:05jaykay \index{Firewire}Firewire detection is not supported in Rockbox at
14:48:07jaykay the moment. Please use USB only.
14:48:08jaykay }
14:48:20jaykaybut i'm quite sure i didn't change this...
14:48:45jaykayalso the index does not produce that what it should produce
14:51:44jaykaypixelma: the note in my trunk works fine, its also a note in the output
14:53:27pixelmasorry, I can't follow the code snippets very well here... one idea would be that maybe you forgot to close an \opt before? It's \opt{target,feature,something}{text which only should appear for some manuals}
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14:54:22pixelmathe \index isn't used yet as far as I know and could be used later if someone wants to add an index list somewhere besides the table of content
14:54:23jaykaypixelma: for some reason its a note in my trunk, and there everything works fine
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14:54:42jaykaybut in svn its a index, which produces nothing
14:54:56jaykayi think it should be a note
14:55:27pixelmathe index would be an additional thing
14:56:11jaykayit was a index and a note some time ago, but BigBambi's rewrite changed that to only index
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14:56:59LambdaCalculus37 <−− Strange problem getting the Rockbox build environment up and running on my MacBook; this happened when I ran
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15:03:32amiconnjaykay: The remark in the manual is wrong. Firewire detection *is* supported in rockbox, just that rockbox doesn't handle firewire itself. It reboots into diskmode, like it did for usb before the usb stack was enabled.
15:05:32jaykayamiconn: can i remove that note completely?
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15:31:48Hittudivsome knows the bellow function?
15:34:40Lssjust checking for %lh can it be used conditionally %?lh
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15:36:50Lssok and i assume only 2 states? true followed by false?
15:38:18Lssok i see its reversed
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15:55:16jaykayamiconn: ?
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16:06:49jaykaysome more questions regarding the manual
16:07:23jaykaymay i remove "Firewire detection is not supported in Rockbox at the moment. Please use USB only."?
16:07:33jaykayfor four ipods
16:07:48jaykayand may i remove \warn{Never extract files to your \dap{} while it is in recovery mode.}
16:07:51jaykayfor the e200
16:08:03gevaertsjaykay: why would you remove that?
16:08:06jaykayboth in "before starting"
16:08:23jaykaygevaerts: amiconn said the first one is wrong
16:08:41gevaertsI mean the sansa one
16:08:50jaykayand the second one is in the wrong place there, in "before starting" nothing is said about the recovery mode"
16:09:22gevaertsmaybe move it then. It must be somewhere though
16:09:31jaykayimo the only right place for that is somewhere in unbricking, and this is in the wiki
16:10:33jaykaygevaerts: the manual says nothing about the recovery mode... so its wrong in the manual
16:10:52gevaertsI'm not sure. I'd leave it there
16:11:36gevaertsPeople have done strange things in recovery mode. Avoiding that is good
16:12:44jaykaythen its like saying in the description of the plugin fire "do not attempt to burn your player", because some people did strange things :)
16:13:22gevaertsno. As far as I know people have never done that in a rockbox context
16:13:41gevaertswhile people have "installed" rockbox on the recovery drive
16:15:12jaykaythe manual don't tell them to do that... it even doesn't describe how to enter the recovery mode
16:15:59jaykaywhat happens when something is copied to the recovery drive?
16:16:14gevaertsyoy need manufacturer mode
16:16:44gevaertsand that may mean access to a linux machine (e200tool doesn't work well on windows)
16:17:07jaykayso it's some kind of bricked then?
16:17:16gevaertsfor the casual user, yes
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16:17:42Unhelpfulrecovering from "needs recovery mode" is much easier than from "needs manufacturer mode"
16:21:50jaykayi'll remove it.. when there are too much complaints about it i'll place it there again
16:23:00gevaertsplease don't
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16:23:19gevaertswalking people through recovering a sansa really is no fun at all
16:23:25pixelmajaykay: you seem to work on many files at once, do you intend to post a patch?
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16:26:47jaykaypixelma: yes, but i'm only doing minor changes... like replacing rockbox with Rockbox or "saving" some lines by utilising the 80 char-limit
16:27:17Lss%pf < what this suppose to show up as? i added it but it doesnt show up
16:28:19pixelmaLss: you don't have an Archos Player, I think?
16:28:45Lssnope ipod
16:29:19pixelmathe %pf is only used on the Archos Player
16:29:38Lss < i see i think someone accidentally deleted Archos
16:29:57Unhelpfulhrm, pictureflow manual entry needs updated *anyway*, it works during playback now. and i would like to have keymaps in the manual matching with my keymaps patch before it's committed :)
16:29:57*linuxstb fixed
16:32:19pixelmaUnhelpful: is that a call for help?
16:33:07Unhelpfulpixelma: i'm not sure yet. i'm looking at it, this might be possible to tackle without having to properly learn tex in general :)
16:35:27Unhelpfulthe patch turns the tracklist into a pretty much standard list view, though... so i'm not really sure if it's best to document buttons for the album view, and just say that the track list is a normal list aside from the quit button, or if i ought to have a complete table of buttons and their actions for each view.
16:41:59jaykayanother question... in the ipod/sansa_install.tex-files... should there always besomething like "connect the dap to the computer, wait for it to show up somewhere"?
16:42:00jaykayand is the "your dap will automatically reconnect..." in "installation on mac os x in ipod_install.tex necessary?
16:43:58linuxstbjaykay: Why do you think it's not necessary?
16:44:52jaykaybeacaause its not in the descriptions for windows and linux and nowhere in sansa_install.tex
16:45:14linuxstbThat's because OS X and ipods are different.
16:45:30linuxstbAlthough I can't say for certain Sansas don't behave like that on OS X.
16:45:53jaykayok, fine... and i didn't say it's not necessary, i asked whether it is ;)
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16:47:34pixelmajaykay: be carefull not to put too much into one patch even if it's only small things. Such patches are hard to review (and commit), I remember spending some time figuring out what to commit, how, which order with a patch package by bascule during last year's devcon
16:49:05Unhelpfulpixelma: \opt selects the given text if any of the options are true, \nopt if none are?
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16:51:26jaykaypixelma: ok, i will try to keep it small... but its difficult to do a second part of work if the first part is rottening in the tracker, noone does want to commit it and everyone says "don't make this patch bigger"
16:51:55Unhelpfuli think i can figure this out. i'm still undecided as to whether the tracklist buttons need to be in the table at all... but maybe i should say what up/down/select/cancel are in that view, even if they're all "normal" buttons for that purpose?
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16:53:15rasherpixelma: the theme is accepted (and no errors shown) if it works on at least one target
16:55:06Unhelpfuloh, right, i do see at least one target that probably needs a fix in the keymap patch - i should probably use up/down to scroll the album list on H10, which doesn't seem to *have* any left/right directionals
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16:57:02pixelmarasher: ah, thanks for the info
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16:59:47jaykayi have another question :) when you start ipodpatcher/sansapatcher on mac os x and press enter the last time, does the programm close itself?
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17:15:43pixelmajaykay: which patch is rotting in the tracker, do you have a fs# ?
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17:17:23jaykaypixelma: i would say approx. 300 of the 400 are rotting... and the one for the manual changes is, but i'm still working on it
17:17:44jaykaythe last one doesn't apply btw
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17:40:47jaykaycan someone answer my question from 40 min ago?
17:41:30jaykayand do i need to double-click a icon after opening ipodpatcher.dmg?
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17:44:36BigBambijaykay: I don't think the firewire thing should be a note, that's why I removed it
17:44:59BigBambijaykay: The fact that it now doesn't show up at all is unintentional and should be fixed
17:45:10BigBambiBut I think notes in general are overused, and I tried to reduce the number
17:45:29jaykayBigBambi: it shows up.... that was not the problem
17:45:34jaykaywhy is it a index?
17:46:04jaykayah... the question was whether its necessary at all
17:46:31BigBambiThis is for two reasons - 1) If there are two many notes they become pointless as they are no longer different, and 2) It doesn't look nice
17:47:04BigBambijaykay: Oh, I got from what you said that it didn't show at all (although I was opretty sure I checked this)
17:47:06BigBambijaykay: It is an index for possible future use
17:47:48jaykaywell i removed it anyway in my patch. i'll see whether this change is accepted or not :)
17:48:00BigBambijaykay: We don't yet have an index, but if we did then that sentence would be linked to by "Firewire" in the index which is useful as it isn't a table of contents item, but is something people might want to find
17:48:14BigBambijaykay: It won't be if it has anything to do with me
17:48:23BigBambijaykay: The index is there for a reason
17:48:44jaykayBigBambi: i removed the hwole sentence because amiconn said its wrong...
17:48:52BigBambijaykay: Again, I don't see why you just delete or change things you don't understand - it gives me less confidence in your changes
17:49:15BigBambijaykay: Ah, I see
17:49:31BigBambijaykay: I thought you meant the index was removed
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17:50:20BigBambijaykay: In that case, it needs changing as Firewire is not supported in Rockbox (it reboots to the OF) but USB is. So that should be changed to reflect this IMO
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17:51:31BigBambijaykay: I'm off now but will be back in a bit
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17:55:05jaykay_BigBambi: should i try to bring h10_install.tex and mrobe100_install.tex in line with the latex-guidelines?
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17:55:46jaykay_i mean the 80-char limit
17:55:50jaykay_it looks really ugly then
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18:02:24Unhelpfularchivator: i suggested the other day that you let the user load a text file specifying a gradient. better idea: let them specify a bitmap. ;)
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18:03:50Unhelpfulno worries about specifying a format, etc... and you can just use the scaler to stretch the bitmap to, say, 1px wide, DISPLAY_HEIGHT tall?
18:03:54archivatorUnhelpful: as you yourself said, there are more important things to tackle than the coloring. I am open to ideas, though I think specifying a bitmap is taking it a bit far. How should the plugin handle dimensions other than the screen's?
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18:06:10Unhelpfultrue... but if you're using a LUT for colors now, it'll be *very* easy to add the ability to load it from a BMP later. i can even do that part for you.
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18:07:22archivatorUnhelpful: I haven't dismissed the idea completely, I am just not going to focus on it at this point in time.. I am *that* close to doing a spectrogram :)
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18:09:02jaykay_pixelma: the patch is up, now it can start rotting :)
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18:32:04archivatorDo we use -fprofile-arcs when compiling rockbox?
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19:45:53UbuntuxerI get strange compiler warnings, if I try to set default values in a array of struct. If compile the same code with gcc, there aren't any warnings. e.g.
19:46:04UbuntuxerI hope someone can help me.
19:46:24Ubuntuxerwarning: missing braces around initializer
19:47:41bertrikthis is a C question and related to rockbox, right?
19:48:09Ubuntuxeryes, of course
19:48:52domonokyUbuntuxer: i dont think you can initialise a array of structs, with just one instance of data..
19:49:15archivatorIsn't that syntax a gcc extension?
19:49:32bertrikit should be something like { {0,0}, {0,0}, {0,0}, {0,0} }
19:49:33Ubuntuxerit works, except of the warnings
19:49:36domonokyperhaps only for newer gcc versions ?
19:49:56JdGordon|bertrik speaks the truth
19:50:25Ubuntuxerok, it just doesn't look good
19:50:35JdGordon|you can pretty it up a bit...
19:50:53bertrikUbuntuxer, I doubt any compiler complains about that :P
19:51:05JdGordon|blaa[4] = { [0] = {0,0}, [SOME_ENUM] = {1,1} ...}
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19:52:03bertrikJdGordon, oh that is nice, never used something like that before
19:53:09Ubuntuxerok, thanks so far
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19:56:02domonokyUbuntuxer: if you just want to 0 that struct array, you could also use memset(blaa,0,sizeof(struct NAME)*4)
19:56:24JdGordon|it gets worse... you can even do [0 .. N] = {...}
19:56:36JdGordon|of course 0 and N could be anything
19:56:52JdGordon|except negative and out of bounds
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19:58:12amiconnbertrik: Designated initializer - these are used in some places in rockbox code
19:58:22pyro_maniacbluebrother: ping
19:58:26bluebrotherpyro_maniac: pong
19:59:02pyro_maniacbluebrother: have you mantioned the "Bootloaderr" in the german translation for rbutil?
19:59:17bluebrothermentioned the bootloader?
19:59:28bluebrotheras in a typo in the translation?
19:59:36pyro_maniacno the word "Bootloadrr" with a double rr
19:59:49pyro_maniacor Bootloaderr
20:00:21bluebrotherfound it. Interesting typo (and I bet it was me who made it ;-)
20:01:23pyro_maniacok, so you got it and I don't have to document it :-)
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20:14:54bluebrotherpyro_maniac: updated translation committed
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20:33:37trisiakhi, my sansa e250 with 3.2rb freezed a moment ago, it just stopped playing, disabled backlight but lighted up the keyboard
20:33:48trisiaki reseted it by holding quit button for some time
20:34:04trisiaknow its teeling me that my battery is too low to operate, but in the OF it shows full battery
20:34:47trisiakI guess its hardware related, can it be rockbox fault?
20:35:29evilnicklighted up the keyboard?
20:35:38trisiakthe blue ring
20:36:09bertrikmaybe the battery is indeed low but perhaps it just takes the OF some time to show that
20:36:11trisiaki normally have this blue light disabled in the settings
20:36:21evilnickAh, okay. So when you turn it on now, you should get the bootloader screen, what exactly does it say? (You might need to do this a few times to get the entire message)
20:36:35trisiakBattery too low. System shutdown
20:36:49trisiakif i start with USB connected it just starts without problems
20:37:08trisiakit had like 80% of battery an hour ago
20:37:32trisiaknow its showing that its charging even after i disconnected it from PC
20:37:33evilnicktrisiak: I would probably let it charge for a few hours then.
20:37:46evilnickUnder the Original Firmware?
20:37:49trisiakno, rb
20:38:20pyro_maniacbluebrother: cool, it was a plessure
20:38:43trisiaki had this kind of freeze long time ago, but i thought that this was cause by filesystem errors
20:38:46evilnickWhat build are you using? (System−−>Rockbox Info)
20:38:54trisiak3.2 dled from the site
20:39:32evilnickAnd when you plug in USB, does the Sansa reboot to the OF?
20:39:50trisiakit doesnt react
20:39:55gevaertstrisiak: checking for filesystem errors never hurts I think. I've seen weird errors caused by those
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20:40:09trisiakand it shows Battery: Charging in the Info screen
20:41:20trisiakI will charge it on the OF for some time
20:41:32evilnickAFAIK, Rockbox 3.2 on the Sansa E-series *should* reboot to OF on USB connection, provided you're using the bootloader and build from RBUtil
20:41:46trisiakevilnick, it was stuck in the Charging state
20:41:57trisiakdidnt even detect that i plugged it of
20:42:19*gevaerts would check the filesystem
20:42:28evilnickAh, so a hardware reset ought to fix that (long, long, long press on Power, up to 30 seconds).
20:42:43evilnickI'd also check the filesystem (using the OF)
20:43:05 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
20:44:29trisiakhmm, its behaving pretty weird right now
20:46:05trisiakOF is not booting, just shows black screen after the Sandisk logo faded out
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20:50:13evilnickHave you recently dropped/knocked the Sansa?
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20:51:10trisiakyes, very recently, but those hangups (with black screen and keyboard backlight switched on) happened two weeks before the knock
20:51:29trisiaki forgot about that ;)
20:52:59evilnickHeh, so what did you do the last time(s) that this happened?
20:53:04trisiakhmm, it works now and shows ~70% of battery
20:53:13trisiaki holded that power button for some time
20:53:27trisiakafter that it happened one more time and never again
20:54:52evilnickOK, I had a similar sounding problem with my Sansa. After I'd dropped it maybe 3 feet, it instantly stopped responding and I couldn't get it to do anything other than switch on the wheel light.
20:54:55trisiaki assume that this black screen && keyboard backlight isnt some standard Kernel Panic procedure
20:55:24evilnickTo fix that, all I had to do was to open it up and re-seat the memory. It took perhaps 2 mins
20:55:50trisiaki have just opened it and removed the battery, after putting it back it works now
20:55:53MTquestion : Is a tick generally ~ 10 milliseconds or is this ARM specific ?
20:56:04 Nick JdGordon| is now known as JdGordon_ (i=836b0070@gateway/web/ajax/
20:56:18gevaertsMT: there's the HZ define to help you with that
20:57:26evilnicktrisiak: Cool! Job done then.
20:58:03domonokyMT: all rockbox targets use 10ms per tick, its more OS, then Plattform dependend..
20:58:27gevaertsdomonoky: hardcoding that assumption is a bad idea though...
20:58:31trisiakevilnick, it is done as long as it does not happen again ;)
20:58:46domonokygevaerts: true.
20:58:54MTgevaerts : ok, I'm done with the qualification task, but, the simbuild is a sansa e200, and for the right file to keep running for 10 seconds, I make the codec sleep for 100ticks for 10 loops, is this acceptable ?
20:59:01MTdomonoky : thanks :)
20:59:22gevaertsMT: make is sleep for HZ ticks, and it will look much nicer :)
20:59:55MTgevaerts : so it seems to be acceptable then :)
21:00:02evilnicktrisiak: Well, after I fixed mine it's been running without any issues for 5 months now, so with luck it'll be okay.
21:01:12gevaertsMT: I'm not a codec specialist. Maybe saratoga or linuxstb can answer that better :)
21:02:35linuxstbMT: For your task, you should generate 10 seconds of silence, rather than sleep().
21:03:15linuxstbAnd for extra points, you can implement seeking within your track ;)
21:04:36MTlinuxstb : I'm trying my best, exams still running :(
21:05:09linuxstbMT: No problem. Just do what you have time for - don't endanger your exams...
21:06:40 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection)
21:06:57pyro_maniackugel: ping
21:07:22MTlinuxstb : to generate silence, I would have to send an empty buffer (samples of zero value maybe?) to pcmbuf_inset() ?
21:08:41MTcan I ask for a pointer on how can I set the elapsed time according to that, or should I figure that out on my own ?
21:10:53linuxstbJust look at the main decoding loop in other codecs. FLAC should be quite simple to follow, or maybe WAV or AIFF
21:11:02linuxstbIf you have questions, come back.
21:11:57domonokyMT: or take a look here
21:12:05MTok, will look there. Thanks. :)
21:12:55MTdomonoky : I looked there to write the codec, but I didn't get much info relating to my question there.
21:13:09domonokyci->set_elapsed(ci->seek_time); ?
21:13:43MTdomonoky : isn't that for seeking only?
21:13:45domonokyor a few lines deeper, after the pcmbuf_insert(..)
21:15:46MTdomonoky : the part about set_elapsed there (ci->set_elapsed(current_Pos);) .. calculating current_Pos is what I'm asking about. :)
21:16:42kugelpyro_maniac: pong
21:17:23MTbecause when I made it sleep for 100 ticks, al I had to do was just set_elapsed(num_seconds) .. now I 'll have to calculate it according to what I send to the pcm buffer.
21:17:38pyro_maniackugel: lowlight seems to be in the forum. he posted me a partly working bootloader. with that I got screen on my device \o/
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21:18:02kugelpyro_maniac: very cool
21:18:04domonokyMT: ah. i think currentPos is the number of samples played.. for example asap.c line 124 calculates it out of the bytes played
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21:19:19pyro_maniackugel: maybe he hands out some code :-)
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21:20:17kugeldid you only give you the binary?
21:21:06MTdomonoky : My understanding is that, the parameter sent to set_elapsed() (in this case number of bytes played) will depend on another variables like sampling rate and sample size ?
21:21:06pyro_maniackugek; yes
21:21:57 Quit Conic (Remote closed the connection)
21:22:08*MT looks to see how asap calculates that..
21:23:08pyro_maniackugel: yes, only the file to boot with
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21:24:02*domonoky looks again.. and it looks more like the setelapsed() parameter is in seconds.. so it does bytes_done/2 (because of stereo) / 44.1 (samplerate)
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21:26:10*domonoky corrects himself again: milliseconds instead of seconds of course :-)
21:26:48*gevaerts thinks that domonoky must be nearing perfection now, after so many corrections ;)
21:28:56MTdomonoky : yes, I'm actually in libasap/asap.c now, trying to figure out how bytes_done is calculated (or to be more specific, how n_bytes is calculated). Thanks for your help :)
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21:30:50domonokyMT: we ask asap to generate a buffer full of samples, n_bytes is how much it really created. (it may be less then the buffer, because of end of file)
21:31:51JdGordon_saratoga: care to join -soc....
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21:35:42fmlLlorean, kugel: would you like to continue the discussion about hopping? I have a patch at that prevents jumping to the start of the track if the elapsed time is less than the skip length.
21:37:38fmlThus PREV and NEXT work in a similar way
21:40:47rasherWould compiling a sim on ARM include the codec optimisations?
21:42:02linuxstbrasher: Probably not.
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21:45:33JdGordon_fml: very delayed pong
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22:01:18fmlkugel, Llorean: are you here?
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22:22:30gevaertssaratoga: ping
22:24:00kugelfml: "#define IS_HOP_PREV(direction) ((direction)==HOP_PREV)" is too much imo. to much macro-fying makes the code less readable
22:24:59fmlkugel: I wanted to abstract away the fact that it's tested as == and not as < (>). But I wouldn't insist on it. What about the functionality?
22:25:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:26:20linuxstbMT: ping
22:28:09MTlinuxstb : pong
22:28:29kugelfml: I don't care too much, I never use prevent track skipping. not allowing skipping to the beginning of the song still seems wrong to me, but consistency is good too
22:28:45linuxstbMT: Can you see my private message?
22:31:37fmlkugel: I'd like to hear Llorean
22:31:48kugelno problem
22:32:12kugelI'm just thinking going to the beginning doesn't count as track skipping
22:32:41kugelHOP_NEXT/_PREV can be applied to dir_change too btw
22:32:43fmlkugel: hm.. yes, that too :-)
22:33:00fmlkugel: yes, I forgot that
22:33:37wincentgevaerts: ping
22:34:04gevaertswincent: pong
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22:35:58fmlkugel: I'll take that bit back
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22:38:10fmlkugel: the new patch is at
22:38:13kugelif it was called "help to prevent accidentally losing the position", then it shouldn't be allowed, but now it's just prevent track skipping
22:39:53fmlBeing able to jump to the start of the track is natural IMO too
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22:41:33Lloreankugel: Then why don't we skip to immediately before the end of the track?
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22:42:23kugelbecause that equals skipping the track most of the time.
22:42:39LloreanSkipping to the beginning of the track equals skipping to the end of the previous track.
22:42:51LloreanSo one could argue it's also "equal" to skipping out of the track, by your definition there.
22:43:01kugelprevent track skipping is to prevent accidental skips, hence they're unexpected, and hence it's probably impossible to skip back again just in time
22:43:27Lloreankugel: So prevent accidental skips to the beginning as well?
22:44:15LloreanIf the idea is that they can seek back to where they were, they can certainly do it if they accidentally skip to the end as well.
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22:45:25LloreanIf you just think it should work that way, say so. But right now you're basically making excuses rather than just sticking with the fact that in the end it's entirely just an opinion call.
22:47:06fmlLlorean: purely formally you may be right. But this somehow conradicts to my human intuition. Jumping to the start is OK since then you can listen to the same track whereas if you jum to the end you won't
22:48:48Lloreanfml: Not jumping to the beginning doesn't prevent you from listening to the same track.
22:51:14fmlLlorean: yes, but you can't listen to the entire track
22:51:23saratogagevaerts: pong
22:51:23LloreanWhy not?
22:51:40Lloreanfml: You can surely seek to the beginning still, just as you can seek to the end (which you're forced to do, if you wish to reach the end of the track)
22:51:55LloreanIt only places the same restriction on back-skipping as is placed on forward-skipping
22:52:59fmlLlorean: because you can't jump to the start. So you can't listen to the entire track by just hopping. Jumping to the end is another story because you'll play the rest "just so" (playback is made forward)
22:53:58Lloreanfml: If you're 30 minutes from the end, and skip length is 35 minutes, you can't get to or even relatively near the end without seeking.
22:54:10LloreanSo you'll play the rest "just so" if you're willing to wait quite a long time, sure.
22:54:19LloreanIf you can seek forward, surely you can also seek backward.
22:54:26LloreanSo why *not* prevent loss of position?
22:55:01kugelit's not what it's supposed to be
22:56:27fmlLlorean: not losing the position is a matter of chance. If you have it set to 30 min and you're nearly before and nearly after that point, the change in behaviour will be dramatic. I'd like to avoid that. Hrm... But then the same applies to forward...
22:56:29kugelask sdoyon why he made it like that. fact is, that time's moving forward, and never backwards. And going to the start isn't track skipping. You just cannot compare both directions really anyway
22:57:57fmlWhat about the following: if the elapsed time is < step, then PREV goes to the start. If the remaining time is < step, then NEXT jumps to the middle of the rest
22:58:14Lloreankugel: I disagree. When you "track skip" you skip the the point between songs.
22:58:25LloreanOtherwise, conceptually, it'd be impossible to ever go back multiple tracks.
22:58:53kugelI don't agree with that definition
22:59:27kugelwith prev/next you just jump to the beginning of the current/previous/next track, not to some mysterious point between
22:59:50LloreanThen why do you even call it "prev" instead of "earlier"?
23:00:13LloreanPrevious. It means "not this one"
23:00:21LloreanThe one before.
23:00:43kugelYes, that seems about right
23:00:54 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
23:00:56LloreanBasically, if you make "previous" skip to the beginning of the track on first press, but nothing on all further presses, you basically give it two different behaviours depending on how often you press it.
23:01:25Lloreankugel: Why do you call it "previous" if its job *isn't* skipping to a point previous to the current track?
23:01:42kugelI just refer to the button with prev
23:01:44LloreanOr, to go back to my original point: what _harm_ comes from not losing your place?
23:01:50kugelwhat it does depends on the elapsed time and settings
23:02:05LloreanYou've yet to even attempt to answer that question.
23:02:50LloreanPeople can still seek. People can still turn the option off to skip, just like they must if they wish to skip forward. It gives them the same full range of options available to them.
23:02:50kugelI told you. The feature is called prevent track skipping, not prevent losing the position
23:02:59Lloreankugel: That doesn't answer my question.
23:03:18LloreanAnd you know it. You're arguing that the name must not be changed?
23:03:22 Quit __lifeless (Remote closed the connection)
23:03:27fmlLlorean, kugel: I'll leave now and think that one of the two patches should go in. I'm not 100% sure which one though. Or even the tird one with skipping to the middle of the rest in case of NEXT
23:03:29kugelAnd in my definition of track skipping, jumping to the beginning is not affected by prevent track skipping
23:03:38LloreanYou can as readily accomplish not track skipping by skipping to the point immediately before the end of the track, yet choose not to.
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23:03:55fmlThis would act similar to seeking where it gets slower as you approach the end
23:03:56Lloreankugel: Your definition, because you choose for "previous" to not mean "previous" but rather simply "earlier in the track"
23:04:07BigBambiobo: ping
23:04:33fmlWe could do that for both PREV and NEXT!
23:04:35Lloreankugel: Again I ask, and please just answer this time instead of talking about feature names - what harm comes from not losing their position, assuming it were named appropriately?
23:04:36kugelLlorean: wtf, you don't even listen to me, right?
23:05:10kugelnothing. and I stated before: if it was "prevent losing position", then it shouldn't be allowed. You probably missed that statement
23:05:24Lloreankugel: I know "time moves foward", but that's irrelevant to whether or not you actually leave the track from the skip - what happens after is not part of the skip
23:06:42 Quit petur ("Later")
23:06:44Lloreankugel: So name it "Prevent longer than track skips" and you're set.
23:07:46 Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
23:09:09fmlLlorean, kugel: the third patch (halving the intervals) is at
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23:09:44kugelLlorean: I'm set with the current name too
23:10:04Lloreankugel: So basically "the name must not be changed, thus the feature needs to be inconsistent to match the name choice"?
23:10:08fmlLlorean: and that's probably the best option since it doesn't have that dramatical behaviour change from one second to another
23:12:15LloreanI think "if the point you're attempting to does not exist within the song, do not skip" makes perfect sense.
23:12:30LloreanYou cannot skip to a point which is not there
23:12:39LloreanChoosing another point for the user is not doing what they asked for.
23:13:51kugelLlorean: not at all. Don't put wrong words in my mouth
23:14:06Lloreankugel: You said you're set with the current name. So it cannot be changed in your view.
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23:15:01LloreanThe fact still remains, you're choosing a new point to skip to when the target point doesn't exist, in one case, and choosing not to skip in another.
23:15:04LloreanThis is inconsistent.
23:15:38fmlLlorean: what if we'd halve the intervals in both cases?
23:16:02Lloreanfml: So you have geometrically decreasing skips as you approach the edges, much like seek works (speed slows down as you reach either end)?
23:16:39kugelLlorean: Yes, given what it's doing now, it's fine for me, and doesn't have to be changed. If you want your thing implemented, the name should be changed
23:16:54fmlLlorean: yes
23:17:00henchmanhello. i just read about on the customwps page, but i don't know how to install it. i use a windows xp machine.
23:17:07Lloreankugel: But it's only fine for you because you think "previous" means "skip to an earlier point in the track" rather than "skip to a point previous to the track"
23:17:30kugelwhat in the world has the definiton of previous to do with it?
23:17:41Lloreanfml: That'd need some small name changes ("maximum skip length" rather than "skip length" perhaps) but might be a good compromise.
23:17:53Lloreankugel: You're fine with it specifically because of what you think of previous meaning
23:17:59Lloreankugel: To you, it doesn't leave the track.
23:18:18Lloreankugel: To me, it's leaving and restarting the track, because it's obviously not skipping 3 minutes backward if there's only 2 minutes elapsed.
23:18:23henchmani put the wps.vim file in the \Vim\vim72\syntax folder, but when i open a wps with gvim, the syntax isn't highlighted
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23:18:31Lloreankugel: So the problem is clearly a difference in definition.
23:18:39bluebrotherhenchman: :set syntax=wps
23:18:45fmlLlorean: what I like about it most is that it doesnt change behavior dramatically in an instance. Name it as you like, but I like it better than just doing nothing.
23:19:04bluebrotheror however the syntax is called. Lemme check
23:19:05Lloreanfml: It also vastly improves the ability to get near the end of the track.
23:19:24fmlThe drawback is that it's not reversible, i.e. if you press PREV and then NEXT you might get to a different point than you were at before
23:19:32Lloreanfml: In fact, it makes it a physical impossibility to skip outside the track, so long as you always round down. So it matches "track lock" nicely
23:20:20LloreanI don't think it needs to be reversible. Seek still operates, and it should be rare that you want to go back to exactly where you started from, since we're apparently saying the purpose isn't to prevent accidents.
23:20:23fmlLlorean: Achilles paradoxon! :-) But even with the mentioned drawback: I like it!
23:20:57henchman<bluebrother> how? i can't find wps, when i open the syntax tab in the menu...
23:21:00fmlLlorean: so should we go for the patch #3?
23:21:25bluebrotherhenchman: you're familiar with vim?
23:21:48henchmannot enough i guess.
23:21:50bluebrotheropen a wps file, go to command mode and set the syntax to wps. I.e. type <ESC>:set syntax=wps
23:22:22Lloreanfml: It might be best to discuss this on -devel. There are some strange behaviours with #3 as you described it at least (if you have 3:01 left with skip length 3 min, you end up at :01, if you have 2:59 left you end up ~1:30)
23:22:27bluebrotherworks fine for me (and is really nice to know about −− didn't knew there was a syntax file around)
23:22:41Lloreanfml: The majority may just prefer one of the two "simple" answers
23:23:04kugelLlorean: how's this strange? It's clear that the skip length which the user has set is a treshhold
23:23:31fmlLlorean: yes, that's also a change in behaviour, but less big. Ah. it's getting late here, I have to go. Bye!
23:23:37 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
23:23:51kugelhe set actively, and intentionally. There's nothing strange with it (in fact, I like this proposal)
23:24:14Lloreankugel: In my mind it'd actually be ideal to start shrinking the skip length at the point where you're 2*step out, so the progression is always smooth. The decreases would be minimal at first, and increasing as you get further in.
23:24:33LloreanBut again, that's my mind, making it similar to how seek works (again, I see the feature as a coarse seek)
23:24:59LloreanThat way, from one second to the next you don't dramatically change where you'll land.
23:25:24LloreanAnd you'll never land earlier by waiting a longer time before pressing "back"
23:25:43kugelLlorean: could be done too
23:26:16kugelhow long would it skip then at 5:59?
23:26:22kugel(if skip length is 3)
23:26:30Llorean2:59 and a half, or so.
23:27:12LloreanBasically, each second under 2*step reduces it by a half second.
23:28:10kugelit should never skip more than the skip length imo
23:28:17LloreanIt never would.
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23:28:25LloreanThe skip length can only be reduced, not increased.
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23:28:55henchmani didn't get it to work with the command mode, but you can also set it, by using the "execute vim-script" command and simply selecting said wps.vim
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23:29:14henchmanthanks for the help anyway
23:29:16evilnickLlorean: Wouldn't that be more annoying for the user who understands the function and really wants to skip/seek 3mins for each press of the button?
23:29:37evilnicki.e. to have Rockbox try to assume what the user is trying to do?
23:30:31Lloreanevilnick: If it's documented, then they ought to know it won't skip the full distance near track ends.
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23:31:05kugelYou said "2:59 and a half, or so."
23:31:05 Quit henchman ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:31:34Lloreankugel: Yes, 2 minutes and 59.5 seconds, or so. Which is less than 3 minutes.
23:31:40 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:32:24Lloreanevilnick: It also will only happen (presumable) when track lock is on. This so called "expert" user simply need disable track lock, and use their large-grain steps expertly.
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23:36:04evilnickSo is track lock is a different setting to the large-grain steps?
23:36:10 Nick dfkt_dt is now known as dfkt (n=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
23:39:39evilnickSo my expert user would not use track lock in that situation. Right.
23:49:00*gevaerts notices that his F60 has stopped playing
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23:51:28gevaertsJdGordon_, kugel: my r20614+FS #9795 stopped playing again with 0 pcm buffer
23:52:13 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:54:31 Quit JdGordon_ (" ajax IRC Client")
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23:55:38 Quit bluebrother ("sleep")
23:57:00*Bagder relived an "alert twiki merged another change since the page was changes while you were editing it"
23:57:13Bagder(minus the typos)
23:57:19Bagderand it worked perfectly
23:57:51JdGordon|gevaerts: oh bugger... reproducable opr still random?
23:58:19jhulstMy assigned task for Summer of Code is to create a new target with a dummy lcd driver. Am I expected to pick an arch and just copy an existing port, with a new lcd driver?
23:58:20gevaertsJdGordon|: just once. I couldn't get playback to restart without rebooting

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