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#rockbox log for 2009-04-19

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06:23:23JdGordon|does not play nice wth ie8? or is it just me?
06:23:29JdGordon|the damn page wont load
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06:39:51dreamlayersJdGordon|: loads and renders properly in IE8 in Vista.
06:40:22JdGordon|i have to put it in compatability mode on win7 for some reason :/
06:42:22dreamlayersIn Vista, I don't need compatibility view. It renders the same way with and without compatibility view.
06:42:58JdGordon|might be a win7 thing then
06:45:56dreamlayersAny thoughts on my last comment in FS #10102? (ie. in audio_current_track() writing to othertrack_id3 instead of thistrack_id3 when ci.new_track != 0)
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07:10:19hajimarihey everyone, i'm trying to install rockbox on my 3rd gen ipod (4 buttons below the screen and the jogdial) and whenever i eject the ipod (i'm on a macbook pro) the ipod reboots and it gives me an error that it can't find rockbox.ipod
07:10:41scorche|shhow did you tyr and install?
07:10:55hajimarii did it through the terminal and with rbutilqt-v1.2.dmg
07:11:39scorche|shgo into the installation tab and try the "install firmware" button
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07:13:56hajimariok now what
07:14:10scorche|shunmount the device and unplug..
07:14:35hajimariwell before i install it
07:14:54hajimarifor my 'select your device in the filesystem" do i put "/Volumes/IPOD"
07:15:17scorche|shput wherever the root of the device is mounted
07:17:32hajimariok the ipod rebooted but it just looks like the normal ipod screen
07:18:16hajimarii just installed the bootloader, do i need to install rockbox too? (it's a separate icon)
07:20:17scorcheyes...that would be the installing the firmware bit
07:20:47hajimariok installed it and the ipod rebooted again, and its giving me the same error
07:20:56hajimarican't load rockbox.ipod file not found
07:22:07scorchehrm...there is a current bug with the complete installation button in rbutil, but i think if you use the separate buttons in the "installation" tab, you should be fine...
07:22:18hajimarithat's what i dd
07:22:20scorcheare you saying you used those to no success?
07:22:25hajimariused the buttons on the installation tab
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07:23:25hajimarioh snap
07:23:27hajimariit works now
07:24:31hajimarii don't know what happened but thanks lol :)
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10:06:39tkoodais a "Toshiba Gigabeat MEG-F10S" considered an "F" series that works with rockbox or an "S" series that doesn't?
10:09:01n1sthe s series works but isn't supported, that looks like an F however
10:09:14tkoodaany way to tell for sure?
10:09:34n1sdo you have a picture?
10:09:42tkoodaebay auction
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10:11:37n1sthere are a number of differences but maybe asking the seller to send you a photo would be a good idea
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10:12:28tkoodawhat would you look for in the photo? the stock pictures the seller used look like the silver Toshiba Gigabeat F40 that I already own.
10:13:04tkoodais it not possible to tell for sure weither or not "MEG-F10S" is an "F" series or an "S" series on it's own?
10:13:13n1sthe s is quite different so if it looks like your F i'd say it is an F
10:13:48n1stkooda: i'm not sure but as i said i *think* that's an F
10:17:48tkoodaafter finding some pics of the "S" series online I think you've got a good point.. that the "S" series does look noticibly different than the "F" series and that the seller's (stock) pics suggest an "F" series and I think "MEG-F..." is "F" series (even though it ends in an "S"?)
10:18:09tkooda(I think the "S" series is "MES...", e.g. "MES60V")
10:18:31amiconnMEG-F10S means an F10 in Silver
10:18:40tkoodaaah, excellent. thanks.
10:19:14amiconnF10K would be blacK
10:19:37tkoodaexcellent. -that'd be great info for the wiki pages, if it's not already in there. (didn't see it myself)
10:22:20tkooda(in the latest rb) can you remove items from the main menu? (e.g. "nanna" is easily confused by some of the items in the main menu and I'd like to make it a bit simpler for her)
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10:24:27n1stkooda: not without editing the source
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11:51:01pixelmahmm... somehow looks like the currently playing track tag info in hwcodec sim is broken (only shows the first track when entering the WPS and won't get updated when I "skip" ffwd/back), most interestingly the fake "next track info" which shows the same track all the time gets updates
11:51:38pixelmain an OndioFM sim if that matters
11:53:08pixelmaplaying time is updated too, as is some other info (like battery status), playlist position isn't updated too
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13:12:00jaykayi get more than 13k results for /* in apps/plugins... are those comments allowed in the plugins or does nobody care?
13:12:55rasherjaykay: What?
13:14:44jaykayi thought rockbox should only use //...
13:15:15rasherOh. No!
13:15:19rasherThe other way around
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13:22:59jaykaythe twiki search is quite unusable...
13:23:06jaykayor i'm too stupid to use it
13:24:41pixelmaare you using the search or the "go" box?
13:25:43jaykaythe search
13:27:45jaykayhow is the coding-style-guidelines-page named?
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13:30:14gevaertsAre you sure there is one?
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13:32:11pixelmaI only know of the file in the SVN repository's docs directory
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13:33:28rasher looks really nice without CSS by the way. Certainly far better than the current page (which means it should be easier to navigate with screenreaders).
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13:36:10pixelmaI still don't like the top navigation area (especially the non-highlighted white-on-grey entries which aren't nice to read and look blurry) and ask myself where he got the players' pictures from (licensing)
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13:38:40pixelmaand I agree with bluebrother about the animation stuff... should probably head over to the forums and comment there
13:39:42rasherYeah, we'd obviously need to supply our own images
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13:46:00pixelmalast I tried on a slow connection the page was also quite slow
13:46:53pixelmaI mean "not nice to people on a slow connection"
13:48:29rasher is one of the main offenders
13:49:22rasherI think it looks nicer without it, frankly
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13:52:01jaykayhow about removing the wiki changes? it's not that interesting for a normal user
13:52:06jaykaylike the latest commits
13:53:23morloiSince USB is now enabled on c200, is it possible to boot directly into RB instead of OF when USB is connected?
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13:53:56rasherIt will require a new bootloader - there's one in the tracker.
13:54:25jaykaywhy isn't it committed?
13:54:41rasherIt's not a matter of committing
13:54:57rasherBut releasing and putting it on the download mirrors, updating rbutil etc
13:55:05rasherAnd it isn't because the current release doesn't have USB
13:55:41gevaertsI think the relevant change is in svn for about a year now :)
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13:56:40morloiwhat’s the flyspray task of the new bootloader?
13:56:46morloican’t find it ... :(
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14:00:39morloiah great, but why does it boot into RB though it is not even enabled in the release...?
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14:01:44rasherWell that would be why those bootloaders have not been released
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14:10:49morloibootleader boots perfectly into RB now, thanks!
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14:18:06bluebrotherhmm −− what's the tag format for ac3 files?
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14:24:50Unhelpfulbluebrother: there is none.
14:25:45rasherWould it be possible to put in an asf container?
14:26:28markunor rm container
14:26:43*Unhelpful is pretty sure rockbox won't play that ;)
14:26:51markun... yet :)
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14:29:45Unhelpfuli think that packing it into an arbitrary container might also irritate users... we could just support reading APEv2 tags from raw AC3 streams, which should be fine as long as we make sure the tag is excluded from the audio data in buffer
14:31:01bluebrotherhmm, for some reason only the first of my ac3 files play. Hmpf.
14:31:55rasherUnhelpful: we could support both. Don't we already support both ogg/speex and plain speex? Or am I horribly mistaken
14:32:28Unhelpfuldo we? we don't support ogg/flac. i thought the police was "native containers only"
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14:32:56Unhelpfulhrm... we should have a HRTF DSP for (optional) use on surround-encoded files
14:35:14rasherWell there's a distinct possibility that I'm talking rubbish
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14:36:14Bootyhy guys
14:37:41Bootydoes anyone knows, whether i can use rockbox on an creative zen? at the forum and the wiki i can't find a clear answer
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14:38:27markunmcuelenaere: are you the Zen guy?
14:38:56mcuelenaereBooty: no, there hasn't been any progress for the Creative ZEN
14:39:44mcuelenaereonly the Creative Zen Vision:M (60GB) & Creative Zen Vision are 'in development'
14:40:33Bootythx, also i must use the original fm or gives a alternative?
14:40:48Booty*fm = fw ^^
14:41:25mcuelenaerethere's no alternative AFAIK (and even if, that would be off-topic)
14:41:30mcuelenaerealternative FW*
14:42:25Bootythx for the info :)
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14:46:10CIA-19mcuelenaere r20738 trunk/apps/plugin.c: Touchscreen targets: switch to grid mode before launching a plugin and switch back to the original mode when leaving it
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15:00:36Ec ? sey me.
15:01:11scorcheEc: did you have an issue with rockbox?
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15:01:44 Nick Ec is now known as EchoSie (
15:03:38EchoSieSay me test.
15:04:48scorcheEchoSie: this is a channel about Rockbox and Rockbox only...if your query does not have anything to do with that, then it is best taken elsewhere...
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15:07:09EchoSiescorche: . senks. iriver e100. /popular model.
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15:10:55scorcheEchoSie: if you are speaking another language, it is english only here...if you are bot spamming garbage (which it seems you are...) expect to be kicked soon....
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15:13:11EchoSiescorche: oK. One sec.
15:13:33EchoSieHello, I have a request to add support for players, iriver e100, just so popular, in my view the player.
15:14:30jaykaydon't request support for players, when you want support for it, start working
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15:16:51EchoSieto my great regret, I do not know how to create code. If I could, it probably would not have to ask you.
15:17:58scorcheEchoSie: ah....we get lots of requests for various ports...however, that is not how development of a new port happens...a new port happens when people come forward with the device itself and the ability and capability to make the port happen
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15:19:25EchoSieall the more for my knowledge that would be something to do with the player you want to break rsa code .. This is not really in my case.
15:21:45EchoSie ?
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15:25:02EchoSie In any case, thanks to that answer. Sorry that does not address and that the bad writing in English. I taught German at school. :-) :-) :-)
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15:25:58EchoSieit was a very long time.
15:25:58EchoSie *JOKINGLY*
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15:27:29CIA-19mcuelenaere r20739 trunk/tools/configure: Disable long calls on MIPS targets to cut binsize
15:30:55EchoSieOne another question. Do you know about the elf's program for siemens phone? For example about "".
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15:32:54scorcheEchoSie: not really, however this channel is meant to only be for subjects about rockbox...anything else, and it belongs somewhere else =)
15:33:37EchoSiescorche: oK oK oK..
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15:36:06tmztEchoSie: have you looked at new ports and at least out what soc it's using?
15:36:13tmztNewPorts on wiki
15:36:32scorcheand/or a thread in the forums that might exist about it
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15:39:46EchoSiejust thought that perhaps rockbox works with arm processors. Is it not?
15:40:21tmztthe system on chip (soc) matters more than the core cpu
15:41:24tmztit works on arm, mips, et cetera, but that doesn't give you video, flash, gpios and whatever else
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15:43:10EchoSieIn any case, although I do not use rockbox, I really like the idea. Thank you that you have created / supports the "program".
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15:46:22EchoSieBye. I wish you all good luck.
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15:58:58CIA-19mcuelenaere r20740 trunk/firmware/target/mips/ingenic_jz47xx/ ( Remove some redundant links in MIPS linker scripts
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16:11:01CIA-19mcuelenaere r20741 trunk/firmware/target/mips/ingenic_jz47xx/ ( crt0.S): MIPS: set load address of .iram to the start of .bss so RAM doesn't get wasted
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17:16:40CIA-19mcuelenaere r20742 trunk/firmware/target/mips/ingenic_jz47xx/ ( crt0.S): Ingenic Jz4740: put stack in IRAM & optimize/clean up crt0.S a bit
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17:32:33mcuelenaerehmm this is weird, making the power thread's stack bigger solves all USB issues..
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17:48:30CIA-19mcuelenaere r20743 trunk/apps/logfdisp.c: Logf display: add ability to scroll through messages
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18:11:05schrottplatzCIA-19: about
18:15:21Unhelpfulwhat exactly are you trying to do? that bot is only for reporting svn commits. if you have a question about rockbox, ask...
18:18:02JdGordondoes anyone have opinions on how to name the touchscreen WPS' so will find then?
18:18:50***Alert Mode OFF
18:20:10JdGordonalso, anyone arty around?
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18:25:55bertrikJdGordon, for the sansa clip WPS I added a mechanism to look for a target-specific WPS, maybe you can re-use that
18:26:47bertrikso cabbiev2.128x64x1.clip.wps is selected instead of cabbiev2.128x64x1.wps for the sansa clip
18:30:43JdGordonhmm... that could work for the time being
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18:35:59stripwaxJdGordon - how arty do you need?
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19:05:41CIA-19kugel r20744 trunk/firmware/target/arm/as3525/ (2 files in 2 dirs): FS #10148 by Dustin Skoracki, removes a redundant check for != BUTTON_NONE in the scrollwheel drivers.
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19:52:48CtcpIgnored 4 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
19:52:48*pixelma tries to find testers/commenters on the last patch in FS #8824 (c200 keymap) once more
19:54:40JdGordonpixelma: can you help out with the icons for the m500 + cabbie?
19:56:03pixelmaI'm currently occupied with further developing my own theme - also don't have much time today anymore...
19:56:45JdGordon:( ok
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20:04:02froggymanHow do i set a background as the default background?
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20:06:17LloreanWhat do you mean by "default"?
20:08:16froggymanset so that it will always be set as the background when i turn it on
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20:09:58LloreanThat's just setting a backdrop then
20:10:02LloreanJust... the normal way of doing it.
20:10:10bluebrotherput the backdrop somewhere below /.rockbox/backdrops
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20:16:43BuschelLlorean: could try the code changes in FS #10139 (seek failure)?
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20:17:39CIA-19dreamlayers r20745 trunk/firmware/target/arm/ipod/power-ipod.c: Add USB power detection for 4G, Photo, Color, 1G Mini and 2G Mini iPods. (See FS #5826 and FS #7727)
20:17:58LloreanBuschel: I'm not able to compile at the moment, but will when I can. It sounds like a good hypothesis though.
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20:20:51*Buschel slaps his WLAN-stick
20:21:13BuschelLlorean: great
20:21:58bluebrotherBagder: does dreamlayers have the powers to close tasks on FS?
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20:30:18n1sbluebrother: he does
20:31:21bluebrotherthanks. I was just wondering as he didn't close that task, so I guess that was intentional :)
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20:49:04saratogaonce we agree on SVN access for someone, can I send the invite email?
20:49:09saratogai don't know how this works
20:49:38kugelsaratoga: I think so
20:50:44n1syeah, anyone can send the mail
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20:51:25gevaertstomers: I've read through the patch and I think it's OK. Testing now...
20:52:27n1sthen various people needs to be prodded for svn and tracker access, IRC cloak, forum badge, colour on rashers map
20:54:23n1sstripwax i assume
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21:16:47gevaertstomers: usb serial seems to be a bit broken even without your patch
21:17:16tomersgevaerts: So are you going to commit this?
21:19:16gevaertsI want to do more testing first
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21:20:23tomersgevaerts: OK... I'm currently working on making the SUB core rework patch
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21:26:07CIA-19gevaerts r20746 trunk/firmware/usbstack/usb_serial.c: simplify and cleanup usb_serial.c (FS #10149 by Tomer Shalev)
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21:35:16kugelstripwax: :)
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21:38:59CIA-19dreamlayers r20747 trunk/apps/playback.c: Add anti-skip buffer time when calculating watermark. This fixes the "Anti-Skip Buffer" setting. Since the minimum and default value is 5 seconds, ...
21:45:49gevaertstomers: how much have you tested FS #10150? (in other words, how much do I need to test it?)
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21:50:52tomersgevaerts: Since MS is the only usable class driver we got, then if you can manipulate files (read/write/delete) the it safe to say it is OK, I think.
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21:51:44gevaertsActually, since these changes basically only touch control, if it enumerates it's most likely OK...
21:53:36CIA-19gevaerts r20748 trunk/firmware/ (3 files in 2 dirs): reorganise usb_core.c a bit, to make the code more readable and more maintainable (FS #10150 by Tomer Shalev))
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22:01:36archivatorAm I right to assume that 64-bit division is slower than 64-bit multiplication?
22:01:41CIA-19dreamlayers r20749 trunk/apps/playback.c: Fix red introduced in r20747
22:03:46kugelgood that CIA-xx is here now
22:03:51tmztis usb-serial only for debugging?
22:08:32gevaertstmzt: right now it is, yes.
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22:27:25tomersgevaerts: Which platforms be able to use HID? Is it those wiith HAVE_USBSTACK, or those with USE_ROCKBOX_USB? (I guess the latter, but I want to confirm)
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22:28:04mcuelenaeretomers: what's the status on USB HID? (is the Flyspray entry your most recent work?)
22:28:15*mcuelenaere is interested into adding touchscreen support
22:29:01gevaertstomers: good question...
22:30:25gevaertsWe want to replace the current CHARGING_ONLY thing with basic HID (i.e. just enumerate correctly, but don't actually do anything), so HAVE_USBSTACK would be sufficient. For real HID use maybe we can require USE_ROCKBOX_USB, but I'm not sure.
22:31:02gevaertsIt's not as if enabling it will make things worse for anyone
22:31:48gevaertsI'd say just HAVE_USBSTACK
22:32:31tomersok... Should my HID patch include changes to all config files with this define? Commented out?
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22:34:30gevaertsI'd wait with that. If we have more class drivers we have to rething enabling them anyway (usb_core.h? usb.h? config-*.h? config.h?), and we need to think about runtime configurability as well
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22:36:19gevaertsFor now I'd just go for a define in usb_core.h, but after that I think it's time to really start thinking about this
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22:49:14tomersgevaerts: Should the define in usb_core.h be commented out? I would like to have it enabled... :-)
22:50:11gevaertsIs there still a debug-menu item to enable it?
22:50:46tomersAlso, if it would be enabled, should we comment out USB_CHARGING_ONLY?
22:51:53tomersActually, I don't know how to enable it by default. i.e. without the menu item. I guess it is not what we want right now, as this class is not useful ;-) Also there's binsize considerations here
22:51:54gevaertsI'd wait a bit longer with that. There's the logic in usb.c that needs to be reviewed before we can make that switch
22:52:14tomersOK. So I'll add USB_HID with comments there
22:52:22tomersI mean commented out..
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22:56:05tomersbluebrother: So how do we progress from here? (FS #10095)
22:59:15bluebrothertomers: well, there's of course the possibility of you adding those file types to your local configuration. If there's a general agreement to ignore files build-*, *.diff and similar I'm also fine adding it to svn
22:59:40 Quit schrottplatz ("o.O")
22:59:55bluebrotherthough the recommended build folder name is "build" so this might not match for single-target users. Using build* might help ...
23:00:28tomersbluebrother: I can help myself :-) But I thought it would be really useful for others to have some common compilation files ignored by svn.
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23:03:50bluebrotherwell, it's not me blocking it :) The question is what file should get ignored globally.
23:04:52bluebrotheras there haven't been any complaints in the past I'm not sure if we really need such ignores though.
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23:06:25archivatorgevaerts: is there any particular reason why it takes ~1.5 sec from pressing the Menu button (on my ipod 5.5) in the USB screen to actually getting the "Boot changed" dialog or is it just the HDD spinning up (or something)?
23:07:12gevaertsarchivator: my guess is spinning up, yes
23:07:39gevaertsactually, I need to disable that button again... It doesn't work properly on windows anyway
23:08:25archivatorSo, it spins down on eject, stays dormant till I move my hand from my keyboard to my DAP, spins up on Menu and then shows the dialog? I see room for improvement.
23:08:35archivatorgevaerts: can't you detect the host OS somehow? :)
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23:09:28archivatorNo quirks in enumerating/communications that give that away? Ugh, I'd hate to lose that button..
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23:12:29archivatorIn my frequency analyzer (FS #10065), should I try to maintain a stable frame rate as I do now (10 updates/sec in the code in FS, less in my tree) or should I go for as many updates as I can get, yield()/sleep()-ing all the time?
23:13:06LloreanAn option for either?
23:13:08gevaertsarchivator: stable is best I think, especially for the spectrogram mode
23:13:56LloreanIsn't the number going to be dependent on how much time the CPU's spending on just decoding, anyway?
23:14:47archivatorLlorean: largely, it is. Actually, my current frame rate was chosen arbitrarily (the worksforme design paradigm) and thus might be far from optimal..
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23:15:38LloreanI mean, I don't know how CPU intensive this is, but the performance gap between the iPod Video and the Gigabeat F is fairly enormous
23:16:44archivatorgevaerts: yet, the code has increased in complexity and I'm getting the freeze bug again on an irregular basis. Thus, it might be best to just scrap the current efforts to maintain a frame rate in lines mode and just yield() like hell. Spectrogram mode can have 4 updates/sec for example or some other value that would work for all targets.
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23:17:22CIA-19gevaerts r20750 trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Add preliminary HID driver. It doesn't do anything yet, but that should change soon (FS #10116 by Tomer Shalev)
23:17:49archivatorLlorean: there is also a maximal refresh rate above which the plugin becomes useless (the graph changes way too quickly for you to see anything), so that needs to be taken into account as well..
23:17:52gevaertsarchivator: maybe, yes
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23:32:23CIA-19gevaerts r20751 trunk/apps/debug_menu.c: Fix warning about unused functions
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23:40:06mcuelenaeregevaerts: how important is it to have an 'unique' USB serial descriptor?
23:40:49gevaertsmcuelenaere: "very"
23:41:24mcuelenaerehmmm well I have the impression the OF doesn't really have an unique one (A00A00A00A00)
23:41:26gevaertsAs in, windows will apparently crash if you connect two devices with the same VID/PID/serial
23:43:06gevaertsWe should probably change usb_core.c a bit to allow for no serial descriptor. Having none is against the mass storage spec (although the USB IF has apparently decided that not having one isn't a big problem), but is otherwise fine
23:43:35mcuelenaereand is that fine with Windows?
23:44:09mcuelenaerethat's weird (given that it crashes with the same VID/PID/serial)
23:44:58gevaertsnot really. No serial probably means no persistent configuration, and duplicate VID/PID/serial means duplicate registry keys
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23:46:54mcuelenaeregevaerts: does 'no serial descriptor' mean just a blank descriptor (000000000000) or should something else get changed?
23:47:52bertrikwe can just fill in 0 as the index for the device serial I think
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23:48:22bertrikin the device descriptor
23:48:22gevaertsyes, line 90 in usb_core.c
23:50:19mcuelenaeregevaerts: ?
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23:51:03gevaertsmcuelenaere: that should do it, yes
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23:51:48mcuelenaereseems to work
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