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#rockbox log for 2009-05-05

00:00:27BigBambianyone else had m68k gcc fail to build on debian testing 64bit?
00:00:29 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:01:13BigBambiThe other three were fine, but m68k failed with:
00:01:23pixelmaI think JdGordon had some problems recently (with one of his build servers), not sure which system that is though
00:02:37 Part cmwslw ("Ex-Chat")
00:03:09JdGordon|BigBambi: yeah, I cant build m68k on ubuntu 9.04 amd64
00:03:21JdGordon|same error
00:03:41BigBambiSo it isn't just ubuntu, but debian too
00:03:45JdGordon|I aksed in #gcc but didnt get much help... dead quiet in there
00:03:54BigBambi(i.e. not an ubuntu specific issue)
00:04:13JdGordon|no, amiconn had a similar issue with cygwin also...
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01:22:40amiconnBigBambi: Exact same problem as on Cygwin 1.7.
01:23:22amiconnI doubt that it's the native gcc, because Cygwin 1.7 still uses gcc 3.4.4 by default - same as current Cygwin 1.5.
01:23:51amiconnIt's either a missing tool, or some other thing than gcc in a too new version
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01:31:15froggymanis it possible to compile rockbox under iPodlinux's bash terminal?
01:31:36soapI've been out of the loop for a little over a week, so please excuse me if this has already been covered in IRC, but why is jpg album art not listed as a "major change"?
01:32:19 Join xevious_ [0] (
01:32:53xevious_i just tried to install rockbox on a 80gb macpod, but i'm getting rockbox.ipod not found
01:33:11xevious_i tried the automatic installation from rockbox utility and i tried a manual install
01:33:20krazykitrockbox won't work on a macpod. it needs to be a winpod
01:33:25xevious_i followed the directions for converting to fat32
01:34:02krazykithave you tried booting into the apple firmware and unzipping a build into the root of the device?
01:34:05xevious_i've been dealing with partition editing and dd for years, so i know i didn't mess anything up with any of those commands
01:34:09 Part toffe82
01:34:19xevious_krazykit: yes i have
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01:34:39xevious_you mean just holding select+play and going into disk mode?
01:34:42krazykitso you see, for example, /mnt/ipod/.rockbox/rockbox.ipod ?
01:35:15krazykitand the apple firmware works?
01:35:25xevious_sure does
01:35:39xevious_i havent tried loading anything into it using itunes though
01:35:47*amiconn points soap towards
01:36:07TravisI am having trouble finding out if the Sansa Clip is supported. Is it supported by Rockbox?
01:36:10krazykitxevious_, then i'm stuck. hopefully someone more familiar with ipods will come around
01:36:16krazykitTravis, do you see the clip on the front page?
01:36:31xevious_krazykit: thanks for trying to help :)
01:36:45Travissorry for bugging you
01:36:54soapdang it, I misspoke. You're absolutely right it isn't on "major changes" - I expected to see it on "Project News", though, being as it is one of the most requested features in my memory.
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01:40:23Lloreansoap: I'd say if aa-in-metadata is coming any time soon, it can just wait for that before going to project news.
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01:42:05soapI must have missed much, That has been discussed seriously?
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01:44:34LloreanWell, jpeg is the big part of it.
01:45:06LloreanMy understanding at least (based solely on Unhelpful's comments as he looked into it) was that aa-in-metadata is actually a very minor thing on top of it
01:46:10 Quit _Auron|G1_ ("AndroidIrc Disconnecting")
01:52:32UnhelpfulLlorean: i don't think it should be hard, but i don't know our metadata parsers at all. basically, for any tag format that stores the image data completely unmodified, the parser will need to store an offset in the struct mp3entry. the AA search function can return the file's own path immediately if this offset is non-zero, and then the metadata is loaded by passing the offset and filename to bufopen with TYPE_BITMAP
01:53:17Unhelpfulerm, that last metadata should be "image", it's been a long day.
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02:00:11 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
02:00:27*Torne wonders what the best way to lightly prod people to look at a patch is :)
02:01:17LloreanTorne: Is the patch complete and working well?
02:01:42Tornelooks to be
02:02:00Tornei'e had it in my build for months and a few people on the tracker commented
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02:02:25Tornei mean not that anyone except me uses my build but hey
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02:02:51LloreanDid you write the patch?
02:03:01LloreanWhich one is it?
02:03:15TorneFS #9730, support loading rockbox from OSOS on ipod
02:03:53Torneenables a method of isntalling rockbox that's slightly fiddlier but boots 800ms faster
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02:04:38LloreanHow does it improve on the method in the first comment on the task, exactly?
02:04:52Torneit's faster
02:05:11Torneapple's loader is more efficient at loading than ours
02:05:24Tornebecaue it doesn't ahve to parse a real FS or load potentially fragmented files
02:05:39LloreanWell, wait.
02:05:45LloreanHow can dual booting happen without our loader?
02:05:50Torneit still has the loader
02:05:56Tornenot using the loader is even quicker, of course
02:06:14Torneyou put rockbox, with the rockbox loader appended, in OSOS
02:06:26Torneapple loader loads both into ram
02:06:33Torneour loader checks which os to boot
02:06:43Tornebut if it decides to boot rockbox it can then jus branch back to 0
02:07:00LloreanYou probably want to talk to linuxstb about this patch then.
02:08:19*Torne nods
02:10:18Torneactually, hm, my comments on the tracker entry seem to lack the actual summary :)
02:11:08Tornei linked to the timing spreadsheet but forgot to actually say what it said :)
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08:41:30*Bagder is skeptic on how the Lyre player project is turning
08:42:47GodEaterBagder: where were you not a skeptic ? :)
08:43:07 Join Zagor [242] (n=bjorn@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
08:43:15Bagderyes, but he actually managed to get something decent going recently
08:43:28Bagderand now this turn
08:43:44BagderI think he'll abandon that and get back to Atmel soon
08:43:47GodEaterBagder: he just insists on learning everything the hard way
08:43:56GodEateryes, I suspect you're right
08:44:03GodEaterhe may yet produce something useful
08:44:21LloreanWell, if I understand, he's not doing the other non-Atmel thing, someone else is?
08:44:38Bagderright, I find the whole insisting-on-LPC thing very odd
08:44:51BagderLlorean: yes, but he'd do the code I think
08:45:19GodEaterI was wondering if he was angling for a "please help me out with some rockbox funds" in there. But maybe he's not that subtle.
08:45:21Bagderand nobody gets the first version of the board done entirely correct
08:45:51Bagder"the first try to build the main board will cost not less than $500!! and that if it fails he will desist from this project"
08:46:09GodEaterforced to wonder "why bother?"
08:46:09LloreanI guess part of the problem is that we aren't seeing what Matt's actually saying?
08:46:19GodEatervery true
08:46:26LloreanMaybe he's got a reason for liking it that just isn't getting passed on to us.
08:46:31GodEaterit would be nice if all these people would chat on the forum thread
08:46:32Bagderthat, and there's casainho's eagerness to start selling
08:47:43GodEaterI think that's where he's going to be in for his hardest learning bump
08:48:23Bagderyeah, competing against the big boys with this only benefit that it is "open"
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08:48:45GodEaterand masses of things we said "don't do this - do this" in it
08:48:55Bagderthat too, yes
08:48:58GodEaterwhich he blythely ignored
08:49:17Bagderpossibly some of those change now that "Matt" does the board
08:49:26GodEatergo Matt!
08:49:55BagderI think he mentioned a decent lcd for example
08:50:27GodEateroh good
08:50:33GodEaterI've not bothered researching the details much
08:50:41GodEatersince I figured casainho didn't care much what we thought
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10:15:29mtlinuxstb : ping
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10:18:34GodEatermt: he's around somewhere - maybe just AFK for the moment.
10:20:41linuxstbmt: Hi.
10:23:20mtlinuxstb : Hi , I've found out that init_vlc() (in bitstream.c) uses realloc in building vlc tables .. I tried using bitstream.c from wma but it gives seg fault.
10:26:32linuxstbI think you just need to remove the call to realloc, and make sure the static size is big enough for the worst case.
10:27:19kugelor we get this malloc into the codec lib :/
10:27:31*kugel pokes saratoga
10:27:37Bagderit's better to not use realloc
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10:29:14kugelwhat happened about that anyway? saratoga wanted it for at least ogg
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10:43:36CIA-63New commit by kugel (r20853): Remove an #ifdef SIMULATOR in favor of using a stub
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15:32:00ajbDoes the simulator build need to have a zip install to test codecs?
15:32:09ajbi.e. if you are tweaking them
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15:37:15krazykitajb, i'm not sure what you mean by a zip install. the sim should work correctly with make && make install
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17:41:21saratogawhat does the check for taginfo_ready in the codec_main functions actually do?
17:41:31saratogaisn't the metadata already ready parsed during buffering?
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17:51:16tmztkugel: are clock issues why playback on as* (Fuze) doesn't work?
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17:55:26saratogatmzt: what do you mean?
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17:56:31tmztI was in backlog apparently, looking on web irc log now
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18:10:26*ajb would like to understand the taginfo_ready code as well
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18:11:55kugeltmzt: what?
18:12:18kugelplayback does work.
18:12:47kugelWe're trying to get the cpu caches and mmu working (a patch on the tracker), and these changes make playback problematic
18:18:30tmzton fuze?
18:18:36tmztwhat codecs?
18:19:09kugelall I listened to yet
18:19:39tmztokay, then I need to update my svn
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18:35:45tmztis it possible to paste in the root in file browser?
18:36:59kugeltry it out?
18:37:05tmztokay, pasting from any file's menu seems to work
18:37:54tmztit didn't update the date stamp
18:38:07tmztdoesn't appear to work
18:39:27tmztdidn't work
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18:39:42ajbIs realloc OK to use or should I just statically size an array and error if I have more chunks to deal with than expected
18:40:02ajbOr are there any other "growable" memory store primitives in rockbox?
18:40:59irctrollHello, I have a 2gig g1 nano, when I install rock box, or ipod linux. the scroll wheel is unresponsive in all OS's except the apple one.
18:41:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:41:05irctrollany tips?
18:42:17tmztkugel: pasting directories doesn't appear to work at all
18:42:42tmztit asks to confirm overwrite the immediate end the operation
18:43:00tmztit might be I have the play button wrong
18:43:08evilnick_7irctroll: Is this with standard (i.e. default) settings? What file type are you playing? What bitrate? Any EQ?
18:43:19tmztor it's getting multiple buttons
18:45:25irctrollI restored my ipod. loaded the rock box utility(full install). It boots up fine. But once in the rockbox OS the scroll wheel does not work.
18:45:39domonokyajb: there is NO malloc/realloc/free in rockboxs core.
18:45:57evilnick_7irctroll: Ah, the scrollwheel doesn't work AT ALL?
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18:46:31irctrollyes, not in the rockbox OS, nor does it work in ipod linux
18:46:57irctrollworks fine in the Apple ipod OS
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18:48:44evilnick_7irctroll: You're best lurking here until someone who can help arrives
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18:49:26irctrollhaha thank you for you input
18:50:53tmztrenaming the file first works though
18:51:09tmztdidn't try with a directory
18:51:37evilnick_7I've had a quick check of the Bugs listing, but can't find anything similar. I'd expect that as this totally affects the RB experience someone should know. Also, have you posted in the forum?
18:51:59tmztof course it doesn't ask about overwriting in that case, only shows copying...
18:53:12irctrollnot yet, I am regestering right now
18:53:20irctrollI made apost in ipodlinux for tho
18:53:24tmztI've only tried on fuze with 04/21 build
18:53:38tmztoh, that was to irctroll
18:56:37ajbdomonoky: So is everything statically allocated? No dynamic memory at all?
18:58:49domonokythere is some dynmic allocation on startup in the core (different buffers are allocated, then the rest of memory is audiobuffer). Generally dynamic memory allocation is a bad thing in embedded systems..
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18:59:47tmzt /wi 2
18:59:48domonokyAlso there is a dynamic memory management for codecs and plugins.. (to make porting easier), but you have to be carefull with this.
19:00:51domonokyajb: take a look here:
19:01:42ajbdomonoky: It's a codec I'm tweaking, the MP4 one to handle multiple mdat chunks
19:02:42ajbI think I'll go for a static array for now. So far I haven't seen more than a few mdat chunks in a MP4 file
19:02:46domonokyajb: codecs really should use static allocation if possible.
19:03:02 Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:03:42domonokyrunning out of memory while decoding a file is a bad thing. better just refuse to play it, if it needs too much mem.
19:05:06bertrikAnyone here interested in getting the sansa c200v2 display to work? I reverse engineered parts of the OF related to the display and write make some C code, but I don't have an actual c200v2 myself.
19:05:11mtdomonoky : since you're on it, could you explain the (taginfo_ready ) part of the codec ?
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19:09:21domonokymt: sorry i dont know anything about this. But it probably means, that the metadata (id3 struct) is now available.
19:11:16domonokybecause at loading time, the metadata gets stored into the audiobuffer. and when playback of this track starts, it gets copied to a seperate buffer and is available via ci->id3. (At least as far is know and can read from the code :-) )
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19:12:04mtok .. Thanks :)
19:13:55mtWhen dealing with container formats, how would the playback engine know which codec to use ?
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19:17:20domonokyhm, i am not sure if rockbox already handles this. i think so far we only had 1-1 ie, one file extension maps to 1 codec. But again i am not sure.. :-)
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19:22:59domonokymt: jup, looks like we can map different file extensions to the same codec, but not the otherway round. So that maybe something to look at, for your gsoc project.
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19:23:12*bertrik spots several silly "(<boolean expression>) ? true : false" statements in rockbox source code
19:24:29*ruskie was wondering if there is or will be any support for samsung devices(specificaly YP-S2 aka Pebble)
19:24:48ajbWhich reminds me, should we favour return int or return bool when the result is only used in the bool context?
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19:25:37domonokybertrik: care to mention a few spots ? grep finds only non-silly use of this for me :-)
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19:26:06mtdomonoky : How about handling all the supported rm codecs in with some switch cases within the same codec file ? (which would be called rm (not exactly a correct name I know))
19:26:31bertrikfor example ./apps/mpeg.c:2428: is_mpeg1 = (options->rec_frequency < 3)?true:false;
19:26:34mts/codecs in with/codecs with
19:26:36domonokyajb: i think, if your return value is really true/false, you should use bool. It makes the code more clear.
19:26:42kugeldomonoky: why can't rbutil download the of?
19:26:52kugel(re: rbutil support for ams)
19:27:13domonokymt: that sounds line a possible solution, if your rm file doesnt grow too big :-)
19:27:31bertrikdomonoky: I grepped for "true:false"
19:27:53domonokykugel: legal issues ? and depending on some external webpage is not nice (although a fallback could be provided)
19:28:02gevaertsbertrik: maybe also try false:true :)
19:28:08kugelwhich legal issues exactly?
19:29:10mtI don't think it will be big .. every codec implementation will have its own separate file .. rm file will just call the correct get_packet() and decode() functions
19:29:17kugelI wouldn't call it depending. I'd call it giving an automatic way (which rbutil aims to do if possible, right?), and fallback to manually download
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19:30:11domonokymt: but all codec would be linked together into one rm.codec, and that has a size limit.
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19:31:37mtdomonoky : ah, didn't think ok that :/
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19:32:13MarcGuayHowdy folks. Anyone know if there's a reason sudoku isn't included in the apps/plugins/CATEGORIES file?
19:32:39domonokybertrik: still i only get sane uses of this. care to tell as such a line ?
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19:34:29bertrikdomonoky, IMO any such (x) ? true : false construct is not sane
19:34:34kugelMarcGuay: probalby a sub dir thing
19:34:34domonokykugel: automatic downloading from a site you dont own, is really a grey legal area. (its like deeplinking to a picture from another website). And we already ask the user for a OF for the h1xx players, nobody has complained till no.
19:34:58kugelit is?
19:35:28kugelI'm just asking, I don't know the exact laws. But I wouldn't think it would not be legal
19:35:49JdGordon|domonoky: hey, have you got anything on my mac which you need kept? the /Users got fucked up again so I'm trying to move it back onto the system partition... which could lead to losing everyones ~
19:35:51MarcGuaykugel: I was thinking the same thing but it seems like the others (doom, chessbox, clock) are in there.
19:35:57JdGordon|ditto to LambdaCalculus37
19:36:00domonokykugel: and also its not really important for a first rbutil AMS support. such things can always be added later if we think it neccessary and allowed.
19:36:31bertrikdomonoky: ./apps/menus/recording_menu.c:454: talk_id(LANG_OFF, title?true:false); <−−- title is already a bool
19:36:37LambdaCalculus37JdGordon|: Nothing important in mine.
19:36:43domonokyJdGordon: nothing important there. so feel free :-)
19:36:51LambdaCalculus37I had one bit of code for wumpus, but I copied it to my Mac.
19:38:05pixelmaMarcGuay: sudoku is a game and a viewer, maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe just an oversight though, don't know
19:38:47JdGordon|very likely an oversight
19:38:50JdGordon|should be in games
19:39:06domonokybertrik: true, in this case its really not neccessary.
19:39:08JdGordon|there is no problem with it being in games and in viewers.config
19:39:30domonokybertrik: use svn blame, to see who wrote this line of code :-)
19:40:09JdGordon|bertrik: hehe, title was probably changed to a bool and that was missed...
19:40:34gevaertsbertrik: also, everyone knows that even for non-bools you should use !! and not ?: to convert to bools :)
19:41:17JdGordon|most likely title was a char* so that would make sense...
19:41:28domonokygevaerts: that sounds a bit dangerous.. :-)
19:41:41MarcGuayJdGordon: Strange that sudoku still shows up in the Games directory even though it's not listed in that file, no? What's its purpose otherwise?
19:42:00gevaertsdomonoky: why? Because people aren't used to it?
19:42:09JdGordon|MarcGuay: viewiers.config is probably moving it then...
19:42:19JdGordon|there is a bit of overlap in those 2 files
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19:42:54domonokygevaerts: compiler optimisations ?
19:44:13gevaertsdomonoky: ! is well defined to give 1 or 0, so I'd consider a compiler that optimises away !! for non-boolean input *seriously* broken
19:44:15MarcGuayJdGordon: I see it now. No harm in adding "sudoku,games" to CATEGORIES, then?
19:45:14bertrikgevaerts, oh really? /me learns something new
19:45:16JdGordon|yeah, shuold be safe
19:45:18domonokygevaerts: not even 0/1 is sure for true/false. Have fun with strange compilers :-)
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19:45:41bertrikI thought false was defined as 0, and true as any other integer value
19:45:43kugelit's not?
19:46:18gevaertsbertrik: it is, but ! is more strict
19:46:22kugelbertrik: it is, domonoky apparently worked with broken (not strange) compilers
19:46:58domonokyand ofcourse there is the other argument: *readability* :-)
19:47:11*bertrik wonders if there's also code like "if (x == true)" in rockbox
19:47:12ajbCan I get LOGF output to stderr in the simulator build? It seems silly replicating loads of LOGFs with DEBUGFs
19:47:13gevaertsdomonoky: that's the main reason I do want this!
19:47:55mtdomonoky : could get_metadata() determine the codec and inform the playback engine of it ?
19:48:03*domonoky has strange code at work where sometime ago true!=true (and a bad hack to fix this). The wonderfull world of code imported from before PC time :-)
19:48:21kugelC code? I've read such an example in php
19:48:40domonokyand yes, it C code.
19:48:56bertrikyuk, we do indeed have such (x == true) code
19:49:09gevaertsdomonoky: the C spec says that "When any scalar value is converted to _Bool, the result is 0 if the value compares equal to 0; otherwise, the result is 1.". As far as I understand "bool" is a typedeffed _Bool
19:49:13*domonoky finds x== true perfectly readable
19:50:13bertrikit might not evaluate to true depending on your definition of true
19:50:23Bagderif(x == true) means it needs to be 1 explictly, while if(x) matches any non-zero value
19:50:33*gevaerts sees that the spec also says that stdbool.h has defines for bool, true and false with the expected values
19:50:38kugelbertrik: the standard defines true
19:50:52gevaertsBagder: that's why generous sprinkling of !! is good :)
19:51:05*domonoky wonder which C standard ? :-)
19:51:07kugelBagder: really?
19:51:08gevaertskugel: you can undefine it if you like...
19:51:14JdGordon|mt: (going of the top of my head....) I *think* get_metadata can change the value of id3->type(?) so the correct codec can be loaded... is there a reason to not have all the avilable .rm codecs in the one .codec though?
19:51:16Bagderkugel: sure
19:51:37gevaertskugel: it defines true, *if* you include stdbool.h, and it defines it to 1
19:52:04gevaertsdomonoky: C99. This is #rockbox. See #rockbox-community for weird compilers :)
19:52:07kugeldomonoky: gevaerts just posted it
19:52:15Bagderchecks == true should in general be avoided methinks, it's a source for mistakes
19:52:36JdGordon|#define true !false; #define false !true
19:53:01mtJdGordon| : I suggested that but domonoky pointed that there would be size limitations on that, so I'm just seeking an alternate solution in case the first didn't work
19:53:07gevaertsIf you want to be explicit, I prefet !=0 or !=false
19:53:58JdGordon|mt: righto, I wouldnt worry about that untill you actually hit the wall though...
19:54:16JdGordon|but yeah, get_metadata might be able to do naughty stuff with the id3->type value
19:54:33mtgreat :)
19:55:12*JdGordon| is not saying that is safe though.... you'd need to look into it more
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19:56:58JdGordon|I think it will be safe though... the codec isnt read untill the metadata for the track is fully read also, so if you have a type "CODEC_RM_CONTAINTER" and then have it change to the correct one, yeah, it should be fine
20:02:25 Quit schrottplatz ("o.O")
20:03:26mtSupposing both solutions are safe and feasible, which would be better ? (I think the second solution - separate codecs ?
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20:04:58JdGordon|a single codec is probably safer and better if it can be done... it means that jumping between rm codecs doesnt need different codec files buffered for each one
20:05:07JdGordon|the single one can be kept in ram and reused
20:05:21JdGordon|other than that, there is no real difference
20:05:43gevaertsI guess a lot depends on how many of the rm codecs also have a life independent of rm
20:06:27XXmeXXmay i ask you about what you are talking?
20:07:04JdGordon| if you really care
20:07:23JdGordon|are there other codecs which could be in different containers? maybe its worth doing this properly?
20:08:02MarcGuayGetting an error trying to compile with FS #10022. ("make: *** [/apps/plugins/beatbox/beatbox.o] Error 1"). Does this mean that beatbox.o simply doesn't exist (it doesn't)? Should the "preprocess" and "ctoobj" functions create this file?
20:09:01domonokyJdGordon| flac in ogg containers for example ? (not supported in rb for now)
20:09:16JdGordon|yeah, thats what I was thinking of
20:09:26JdGordon|although i thought it was ogg in flac for some reason :p
20:10:09domonokyMarcGuay: Error 1 only means there was one error. search higherup for the first error you get.
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20:12:17mtJdGordon| : if all codecs were in one single file, a codec like AC3 would be redundantly added to this file.
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20:12:25MarcGuaydomonoky: Thanks for the explanation. There are several errors before that line but they're only designated as warnings so I figured they were non-fatal and could be ignored for now.
20:13:05domonokyMarcGuay: warnings are warnings, and errors are errors. search hard and you will find another line with "error" in it :-)
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20:15:59JdGordon|mt: ac3 would be duplicated you mean?
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20:16:59*MarcGuay slaps forehead and thanks domonoky.
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20:17:40mtsince it's already supported in rockbox, it kind of looks ugly to me to have separate codecs for AC3 to handle AC3 in RM.
20:18:35JdGordon|ok, yeah
20:20:31domonokyJdGordon| another example speex in ogg :-)
20:21:20JdGordon|so yeah... mt seen as you're so far ahead of schedule... feel like figuring out a good way to do this properly?
20:23:50mtJdGordon| : The only way I have on mind right now is to modify the type in get_metadata()
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20:26:38mtOr, modifying the types only for codecs that are currently supported or not supported but could exist outside rm (can't figure a correct phrasing for that :)
20:27:07mtand those that are only found in rm would be all handled in rm.codec
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20:56:36*LambdaCalculus37 waves to the long missing MarcGuay :)
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21:09:23JdGordon|mt: I think something like having a new type (flag maybe) to say that the "codec" is really a contrainer and then have a get_codec_from_container() or similar call which needs to be done before playback tries to buffer the codec
21:10:19JdGordon|it doesnt have to be complicated... but I think it should be explicit that its happening...
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21:14:39mtJdGordon| : Isn't get_metadata() done before buffering the codec ? if I'm correct then I believe spreading some comments there would be sufficient to explain what is happening. The flag/function idea wouldn't be hard to implement, I'm just suggesting :)
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21:17:04JdGordon|iirc yes it shuold be safe, but it would be nice to make sure playback will definetly not try to buffer a codec file that doesnt exsist... adding a flag to the codec type should eb difficult
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21:18:36mt*should* be difficult ?
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21:24:15Peace-hey guys i would know if my mp3 player can work with rocbox
21:24:29Peace-some usefull stuff link?
21:24:54JdGordon|if you already know... there isnt much we can help you with
21:25:42Peace-mm i was there
21:25:47Peace-looking for a database
21:25:50Peace-or something
21:25:51BigBambiThe you will have seen the list on the front page
21:26:07*Peace- is bling :S
21:26:13 Quit planetbeing_ ()
21:26:46Peace-well it's a creative zen mini
21:27:04BigBambiAs you will have seen, it isn't in that list
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21:29:36BigBambiThe list on the front page is up-to-date. Rockbox doesn't run on any of the Zens. Some work has been done to port some of them, but none are ready
21:30:04Peace-well i have tried
21:30:17Peace-i switching to linux every computer
21:30:25Peace-i am
21:30:40Peace-so i was interested to it
21:30:55BigBambiRockbox isn't linux, or based on linux
21:31:16Peace-open source is always open source
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21:34:28BigBambiPeace-: yup. You can follow porting progress (if any) in the New Ports section of the forum, but please don't post there asking for updates
21:34:49saratogaand in the future you might reconsider asking people in IRC to read your own links to you
21:34:54BigBambiAlso, there are different types of Zen - I'm not sure if the Zen micro is one of the ones with work done on it
21:35:18Peace-yeah i know
21:35:25BigBambisaratoga: hmmm?
21:35:39BigBambisaratoga: oh, the Zen wiki page
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21:36:19Peace-but could i help someway
21:36:56BigBambiPeace-: Do you know how to program in C or ASM, or have reverse engineering skills?
21:37:08Peace-unluckly no
21:37:22Peace-i know something about c++ but it very very few stuff
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21:37:39BigBambinot without learning then
21:38:22mtHe could help in themes/translations I think ?
21:39:08mcuelenaerethe Creative Zen Micro seems to run a TMS320DA255, which is the same as the zen touch, sleek, nomad jukebox * & the dell dj
21:39:16mcuelenaere(but which doesn't have any code in SVN)
21:39:46BigBambimt: translations not really
21:39:54BigBambimt: themes, depends on the screen res
21:40:20BigBambimt: keymaps to an extent, but given there is no code in svn it probably isn't very useful at the moment
21:41:19LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: And won't unless I get another Dell DJ.
21:41:46mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: did you broke it?
21:41:48Peace-well.... next time i will buy a rockbox supported player
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21:42:50LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Yeah, it's dead and in a box.
21:43:05mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: dead in what way?
21:43:23LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Mainboard is dead.
21:43:49LambdaCalculus37And it's in pieces, too.
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21:45:07mcuelenaereanyway, porting it would be rather difficult givin' the complete lack of documentation
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21:57:12LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: In terms of specific instructions needed, or just in general?
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22:03:39mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37 (logs): in terms of hardware documentation (TI)
22:05:42JdGordon|we have docs for the tms320...
22:05:56JdGordon|assuming its not too different from the one in the mr500?
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22:08:25mcuelenaereJdGordon|: that's the TMS320DM320
22:08:36mcuelenaerethis is a TMS320DA255 (whatever that is)
22:08:51mcuelenaerethey're probably similar, but not completely
22:09:13mcuelenaere(DA255 has a TI C55x DSP while DM320 has a C54xx, both have an ARM core though)
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22:19:46linuxstbmt: Rockbox already handles multiple codecs in the same container - e.g. Ogg (vorbis and speex) and mp4 (AAC and Apple Lossless). It is the job of get_metadata() to set the codec type in a file - the playback code just sets the type to an initial guess based on the extension, and the metadata code confirms (or changes) that guess.
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22:58:55JdGordon|linuxstb: ok, thats what I guessed... it seems a bit hacky to me though... shouldnt we do it more properly if we have more than those special cases?
22:59:41linuxstbWhy is it a hack? Seems nice and simple to me.
23:00:35JdGordon|I'm only going from memory.. the code might make it obvious in which case fine... but if its more of a wierd possible side effect then maybe its not so good?
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23:02:53linuxstbWhat's a wierd possible side-effect?
23:03:56JdGordon|changing the codec type
23:05:05linuxstbNo, that's part of get_metadata()'s job.
23:05:45Tornelinuxstb: any chance of you commenting on/committing FS #9730? Had it in my build for a while now and am wondering if it's likely to be accepted
23:05:57Torne(support loading rockbox from OSOS on ipod)
23:06:17Tornewe discussed it when i originally wrote it
23:06:44linuxstbTorne: I've had a look, and it seems fine. Although it would be nice to find a way to give all users that speedup, not just ones who do an advanced install...
23:06:59linuxstbBut that doesn't seem possible...
23:07:05Torneit would be fiddly, yeah
23:07:14Tornewell, i did have on ethought actually
23:07:22Torneif you put the dual boot code in rockbox itself, you could just write rockbox to OSOS
23:07:28Torneand have it be able to boot apple_os.ipod
23:07:43Torneat that point you migh tbe better served by trying to fix chain loading on ipod though
23:07:49Torneso you cna just run apple_os from rockbox anyway
23:08:01linuxstbYes, reliable rolo would be nice.
23:08:29Tornei guess rbutil could technically do it
23:08:37Tornebut it would have to back up apple_os for you
23:08:42Torneand make it clear to the user what that is for
23:08:52Torneotherwise if it got lost they may wonder why they can't boot OFW
23:08:52linuxstbOne problem I know about with that is that the Apple bootloader writes a "sysinfo" struct at the end of iram before loading OSOS, something Rockbox doesn't do.
23:09:31Torneyeah, i've not looked at that
23:09:39Tornebecause i never run OFW anyway except to test stuff
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23:09:48Torneso it's not a huge deal for me
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23:10:23Torneas dreamlayers said also, it could be a little faster if it didn't have to check on disk
23:10:33Tornebecause then the bootloader could probably not do ata_init
23:10:45Tornebut that would make upgrading using the standard method silently break
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23:12:16linuxstbHopefully someone will try to replace the contents of the flash in ipods at some point - it should be possible to experiment with it relatively safely...
23:12:49Torneyeah i pondered looking at that but i'm too lazy, er, i mean busy
23:13:52linuxstbThere's code in ipodpatcher to read/write the aupd image (which is encrypted), so flashing could be done that way. I did once try accessing the flash chip, but couldn't get it working.
23:14:41Tornehas anyone done a decent annotated disassembly of the ipod flash that's available?
23:14:56linuxstbBut going back to your patch, I think it would be useful to add a little documentation to the bootloader, as it's getting quite complicated (lots of different ways to load things). Maybe simply a description of the features in a comment at the top of in ipod.c would be enough.
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23:15:43linuxstbTorne: Various people probably have their own disassemblies, but it's not something that can be shared publically.
23:15:53linuxstb(it's Apple's copyright)
23:16:09Tornewell, yes
23:16:21*Torne hmms and is sure there must be some way around that ;)
23:16:32Torneit's not like you really need to distribute the actual instructions
23:16:39Tornejust the interesting human annotations
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23:17:46Tornei am unlikely to really have time either way :)
23:18:05linuxstbWe should put the idea in the head of dreamlayers ;)
23:18:13Tornei'll see about documenting how ipod.c decides what to load, anyway
23:18:16Torneas that is a good plan
23:18:48linuxstbIf you do that, I promise to commit it ;)
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23:19:01Torneok that sounds fair :)
23:19:16Torneheh actually i have 9727 waiting as well
23:19:20Tornewhich is less interesting to discuss
23:19:27Tornethe fact that the system menu's icon is ? annoyed me
23:19:36Torneso i changed it to the same one as system settings. :)
23:19:53Torneforgot i did that
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23:26:30poseidonaccording to gtkpod I have the ipod model "xA428" which I think is the 2nd gen ipod nano 4gb. How do I get started setting up rockbox on it?
23:27:01BigBambiyou don't
23:27:05Bagderposeidon: step #1: port rockbox to your target
23:27:17BigBambiposeidon: see the list of supported targets at
23:27:45poseidonIs that version not supported?
23:28:02BigBambiposeidon: Check the list on
23:28:06Bagdercorrect, only the first gen nano
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23:28:10BigBambiposeidon: hint - no
23:28:12linuxstbposeidon: And the work someone needs to do to make Rockbox run on your ipod -
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