#rockbox 2009-05-10

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#rockbox log for 2009-05-10

00:00:39	linuxstb	I mean applying the patch against the current cook.c, not a 2 year old one.
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00:02:46	mt	linuxstb : why not apply the patch to the older revision and then add the relevant patches later ?
00:03:52	linuxstb	Because the diffs against the current code in svn won't make any sense.
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00:09:13	mt	linuxstb : I'll try to manually apply the changes to the current cook.c then.
00:10:40	mt	I have to go now. Goodnight everyone !
00:11:18	linuxstb	mt: Or you could apply the changes from 2007 to 2009 to your cook.c. As long as you do it before producing the next patch, it doesn't matter.
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01:15:20	CIA-38	New commit by dave (r20897): Patch by Mohamed Tarek - add #define to protect against multiple inclusion
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01:24:16	CIA-38	New commit by dave (r20898): Patch by Mohamed Tarek from FS #10182: 1) Move the main() test program from cook.c to a new main.c; 2) Move some common definitions from cook.c to ...
01:31:25	soap	Ok, it's been awhile since the new theme site has gone up. Still many authors have not moved their themes over. Is it time to discuss the fate of the (permissively licensed) themes on the wiki, or is the consensus to let them rot?
01:32:43	saratoga	I think if people want to move them they might as well
01:33:08	saratoga	the authors can always contact the theme site admins if they want to update their themes at some point in the future
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01:37:34	soap	IIRC the argument had been made that "forcing" the theme author to explicitly acknowledge the license agreement on the theme site would be best...
01:37:56	Llorean	If the theme's already CC licensed, haven't they already agreed to it?
01:38:09	Llorean	Well, licensed under that specific CC license, that is
01:38:58	Llorean	On the other hand, we could just ignore all the old themes. Remove all the existing pages, dump all of them into a page called ThemeGraveyard, and then (if it's possible) make that place read only.
01:39:10	Llorean	There's not a reason we have to migrate them.
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01:41:24	saratoga	if they're under compatible license we should move them
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01:41:28	Dillizar	any body here
01:42:16	Llorean	Dillizar: Did you have a specific question?
01:42:32	Dillizar	well
01:42:34	Dillizar	http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2009-02/0027.shtml
01:42:51	Llorean	That's not exactly a question.
01:42:59	Dillizar	i found this and i want to know the guy that installed rockbox on his philips or where can i find him
01:43:32	Llorean	Well, that's an email from the mailing list, and it includes an email address.
01:44:20	Dillizar	there isnt a rockbox for philips gogear 6320
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01:44:25	Dillizar	i cant understand
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01:45:18	Llorean	Dillizar: That message was discussing development. That person did some work on it, and managed to get audio.
01:45:38	scorche	right...but a port is in the process of being worked on...when it becomes ready for people to use, it will be announced as such and made available on the website
01:45:54	Dillizar	ah kewl
01:46:08	Dillizar	and how long does usualy takes
01:46:14	Llorean	There is no "usually"
01:46:27	Dillizar	usually*
01:46:29	Llorean	It can happen very quickly, or it can never happen because the person becomes too busy and nobody new picks it up.
01:49:49	Dillizar	kewl
01:49:57	Dillizar	so i still have hope :)
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03:58:14	saratoga	can we update the official sansa e200/c200 bootloaders to not reboot into the OF on USB insert? this seems to cause a lot of confusion for users
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04:06:09	Llorean	saratoga: We'll update them when the release version has a USB mode.
04:06:29	Llorean	At least, that's my understanding.
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04:09:44	saratoga	Llorean: do we have to use the same bootloaders for SVN and release installs?
04:11:06	Llorean	At the moment there's not the infrastructure in RBUtil to install different bootloaders depending on the choice made, I think.
04:11:12	saratoga	ah ok
04:11:20	Llorean	And we'll have USB enabled in the release, and new bootloaders, in what, a month and a half now?
04:11:26	Llorean	Probably not worth the effort.
04:12:12	Llorean	Probably about the time people should be looking at big patches they want to get into 3.3 actually, so there's plenty of time for testing before the freeze etc.
04:12:55	Llorean	Assuming we even have any "big" features still sitting around nearly done.
04:13:09	saratoga	I guess beast support, but who knows about that
04:13:52	Llorean	Isn't the big hurdle for the beast that we don't have an effective way to install in Windows?
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04:14:23	Llorean	Or rather, we don't have a non-Linux install method?
04:14:28	*	Llorean hasn't looked at it in a while
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04:16:25	saratoga	i'm not sure, but i think the problem was getting the libusb licensing sorted out
04:17:05	Llorean	It's LGPL right? Shouldn't be a problem?
04:18:45	linuxstb	libusb isn't the issue, it was the Microsoft MTP library.
04:18:47	saratoga	i think the example code we used to call libusb was under ambigulous license or something like that
04:19:03	linuxstb	And the example code to use that MS lib...
04:19:05	Llorean	linuxstb: But that's an issue for Windows install only?
04:19:16	linuxstb	Yes.
04:19:32	*	Llorean thinks that RBUtil support in Linux only is good enough for a release if such is necessary.
04:20:04	Llorean	I mean, it means for some people a LiveCD is necessary for the bootloader install, which is one-off anyway. Not such a huge deal?
04:20:05	*	linuxstb doesn't care about rbutil support - running an ipodpatcher-like application isn't hard...
04:20:24	linuxstb	(and only has to be done once)
04:21:00	Llorean	An rbutil like app wouldn't be bad, but if we've got one of those for Windows, couldn't RBUtil just run it for you if you put it in the same folder?
04:21:06	Llorean	Er, an ipodpatcher like app
04:21:57	saratoga	don't we have people use libusb to do the e200R install?
04:22:06	saratoga	would the same trick not work here
04:22:15	Llorean	the e200R doesn't require MTP
04:22:57	saratoga	i'm mixing up libusb and libmtp probably
04:23:48	linuxstb	The complication is how WIndows handles USB drivers - you need a driver for each VID/PID combination. e200rpatcher works in manufacturing mode, so it doesn't hurt for a Windows user to install the libusb driver for those IDs - it doesn't interfere with normal operation.
04:24:38	saratoga	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSPort#Things_to_do_before_supported_st
04:24:55	wpyh	linuxstb: ipodpatcher has to be done once? well, I usually run it after every build (maybe about 20+ revs)... am I unneccessarily wasting my time? :p
04:25:43	saratoga	yes it doesn't do anything after the first time
04:25:44	linuxstb	wpyh: Are you compiling ipodpatcher (and the bootloaders) yourself?
04:25:47	*	Llorean wonders when it was decided RBUtil support was non-essential
04:26:13	Llorean	I thought the whole point of releases was for the more mainstream users for which RBUtil was intended.
04:26:25	linuxstb	So we drop the e200r as supported?
04:26:42	Llorean	The e200r happened before we started up releases again.
04:26:46	Llorean	It's sort of a grandfather clause.
04:26:47	saratoga	i think its rbutil is required if feasible
04:26:49	linuxstb	But yes, I recall it being discussed and agreed.
04:27:15	wpyh	linuxstb: well, yes, I'm compiling everything by myself
04:27:41	Llorean	I don't see RBUtil as being "optional" for a target that's going to be added as a release target. Either it's impossible, in which case we bypass it, or we add it.
04:27:47	linuxstb	wpyh: Then you're helpfully testing bootloaders for us... But there's no real need to.
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04:28:04	kugel	Llorean: And I can't remember when it was decided to have rbutil support essential
04:28:31	*	linuxstb has always thought of rbutil as an optional part of Rockbox
04:28:52	*	kugel too
04:28:54	Llorean	linuxstb: Being a part of Rockbox is different from being a release version
04:29:01	Llorean	Didn't we discuss this before 3.0?
04:29:03	linuxstb	Which implies targets don't need to be supported by it to be released.
04:29:05	saratoga	the beast is somewhat special in that the only people using it are probably already rockbox users
04:29:17	saratoga	its not liek the sansas where a lot of people buy the player then find rockbox
04:29:28	Llorean	saratoga: Then it doesn't need to be supported or released if that's the case.
04:29:56	Llorean	"Supported" means it's ready for mainstream users. At this point, that means they can follow our "standard" install procedure - use RBUtil and let that handle it.
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04:30:30	*	kugel disagrees
04:30:37	Llorean	If we want to have tiered levels of support, we should mark ones without RBUtil "beta" or something so people know in advance we're not offering them the full package.
04:30:37	wpyh	hm... ok... :p I haven't found major problems though, except for in-development ports (like sansa fuze) where I need to compile and install both the bootloader and the normal build otherwise rockbox couldn't be loaded at all
04:30:51	kugel	where the distinction to released then (if there's a distinction)?
04:31:05	saratoga	i think the bootloader changes maybe once or twice a year, so theres probably never been anything for you to find problems in
04:31:33	saratoga	wpyh: you don't need to recompile the sansa bootloader, and you probably shouldn't
04:32:03	kugel	I really wouldn't want rbutil support necessary to consider a target as completed
04:32:03	Llorean	linuxstb: If an automated installer can be done, why _shouldn't_ it be RBUtil, exactly? I mean, what's the point in not doing RBUtil support if it's possible? And if it's possible, what's the harm in waiting for it to be done before declaring it "supported"?
04:32:25	Llorean	kugel: Why not, exactly? If RBUtil support can be done, why not do it? If it can't be done, then it's not necessary for that target.
04:32:40	Llorean	Saying it's unnecessary is just creating an excuse for it not to have to be done ever.
04:32:53	*	scorche reminds people that we are still looking for topics to discuss during devcon...
04:32:57	Llorean	It's like saying "I don't think plugin keymaps are necessary for a port to be supported."
04:32:59	saratoga	the problem with rbutil is that its c++ and thus a lot of us have no idea how to work on it, so we have to depend on a couple people to keep up with development
04:33:01	kugel	particularly because that means the people working on a port need to get involved with a totally different part of rockbox (desktop app, other language, other philosophy)
04:33:12	kugel	that way, rbutil will only block new ports
04:33:41	Llorean	kugel: To which I can respond to you what gets told to users all the time - languages can be learned.
04:33:57	Llorean	especially if having RBUtil call an external installer application is an option anyway.
04:33:59	linuxstb	Llorean: The target status page lists the criteria for release. I guess you don't agree with those.
04:34:02	saratoga	granted i only put about 30 minutes effort into it, but I still can't even manage to get rbutil to compile on my ubuntu machine
04:34:16	kugel	people that work on a port are the ones that care less about rbutil since they use rockbox for a long time, and are familiar with the non-rbutil installation procedudes (they wrote them!)
04:34:38	Llorean	linuxstb: I wasn't aware wiki pages were automatically difinitive.
04:34:41	Llorean	definitive
04:34:41	kugel	I think we wouldn't even consider AMS sansas for 3.3 if domonoky wasn't working rbutil anyway
04:34:59	linuxstb	Llorean: Then what is?
04:35:07	Llorean	kugel: AMS Sansas aren't done yet anyway. At least the clip isn't.
04:35:12	kugel	Llorean: the point is, people are required to learn a new language for rbutil support which they don't really care about anyway
04:35:17	wpyh	saratoga: why shouldn't I? (because of risks of bricking the player?)
04:35:18	Llorean	linuxstb: Is something?
04:35:23	*	linuxstb goes to sleep
04:35:35	Llorean	kugel: If they don't care about it, why should they care about the word "supported"? It's just a word.
04:35:47	Llorean	"Supported" means something to our users now - it means the software is ready for them.
04:35:53	Llorean	We've raised the bar, we should live up to it
04:35:56	Llorean	Not strive to lower it back down agian.
04:36:13	Llorean	People who are comfortable can use it with the console installers, etc, anyway.
04:36:20	kugel	it would be nice if you can put a quote which says rbutil is explicitely requiered
04:36:39	Llorean	Why do I need a quote? It's my opinion, and i haven't denied that it's just my opinion.
04:36:47	kugel	we've had a talk about this when the beast was first released for a day or two. without rbutil support.
04:36:50	Llorean	Since when do I need a quote to backup the fact that I have an opinion?
04:37:02	Llorean	The beast isn't supported.
04:37:05	kugel	You claim rbutil is required
04:37:32	kugel	I don't think it should be, I wouldn't want that
04:37:40	Llorean	kugel: Where, exactly, did I claim it's required?
04:38:11	Llorean	You'll notice the use of phrases such as "we should" and "I don't see" and so on.
04:38:11	saratoga	looking at that wiki page,linuxstb and I wrote the section on what supported means :)
04:38:21	scorche	sheesh...this is only the second idea added to the ideas for discussion bit for devcon?
04:38:29	Llorean	saratoga: So basically linuxstb justified his statements with his other statements?
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04:38:55	saratoga	Llorean: to be fair he added stuff to my original list which said that something was supported when you could download it and there was a manual
04:39:09	kugel	We've raised the bar, we should live up to it...Not strive to lower it back down agian.
04:39:17	Llorean	saratoga: Still, basically he suggested it was definitive when he's the one who wrote it there.
04:39:22	kugel	(that was what sounds like it was required to me)
04:39:29	Llorean	kugel: should
04:39:42	Llorean	This may be an English/German thing again, but "should" doesn't mean "have to"
04:39:52	kugel	well
04:40:06	saratoga	wpyh: yeah bootloader installs on the AMS targets are pretty safe, but if something goes wrong theres no way to recover most of them, plus its pointless unless the bootloader is actually updated
04:40:07	kugel	"We've raised the bar...Not strive to lower it back down agian." is the same for me
04:40:18	Llorean	kugel: What?
04:40:27	kugel	without the should live up to it part
04:40:34	Llorean	You can't choose to ignore words in a sentence and then say "oh, but this means what I thought you said"
04:41:04	wpyh	saratoga: OK, I will only update the bootloader if it's updated again then. :)
04:41:51	kugel	that part doesn't add or remove something to/of the meaning in the sense that "We've raised the bar" means rbutil is required
04:41:54	kugel	to me, at least
04:42:05	Llorean	We did raise the bar.
04:42:17	Llorean	But that alone doesn't mean anything but "we've raised the bar"
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04:53:43	wpyh	could someone please close FS #9473? I opened it but to me it seems invalid.
04:54:52	*	wpyh has successfully compiled rbutil on linux, with qt 4.5
05:00
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05:11:16	wpyh	anyone care to review FS #9456?
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05:24:54	Llorean	Just to clarify for the record, since my opinion is apparently unclear
05:25:16	Llorean	1) I do not think we've agreed on anything already, which is why I asked when things were agreed on.
05:25:35	Llorean	2) I think that we've shown users a certain level of user experience with RButil, and that going forward we should show that same level of user experience for new "supported" targets
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05:30:34	saratoga	regarding rbutil support, maybe some standards to make it easier to port new targets to would be helpful
05:31:01	saratoga	something like a standard form for tools like sansapatcher so that they can be quickly plugged into rbutil without someone needing to know much about how it actually works?
05:31:27	Llorean	Makes sense.
05:31:40	saratoga	i don't know how feasible it is though
05:32:16	Llorean	Or even a standard way to add a new target that calls an external tool so that we have a makeshift solution (it could even download the latest external tool, if we don't mind downloading executables) until "real" support is added
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07:40:33	tmzt	linuxstb: saratoga: there's a native usb library for Vista and 2007 with similar functionality to libusb, unfortunately not for win xp
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08:37:02	amiconn	Llorean, saratoga: Iirc I installed rockbox on my beast from within windows
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08:42:17	bubsy	amiconn: is your beast tamed?
08:42:22	bubsy	what's its name?
08:42:25	bubsy	does it have fur?
08:42:31	bubsy	does it have horns?
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12:52:43	msi	hi there
12:53:18	msi	im using an ipod nano 3g - is there any build that works for it?
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12:55:04	Unhelpful	no.
12:55:38	msi	are there any plans for its support?
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12:57:35	Unhelpful	no. nobody has cracked the encryption on the firmware yet, we have no way to run any of our own code on it.
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13:11:29	msi	what does this apple firmware base on?
13:12:00		Quit Horscht ("Verlassend")
13:16:09	msi	interesting story about the firmware also called "pixoOS" - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/08/16/BUGTG878AR1.DTL&type=printable
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13:25:46	dendemeier	Rockbox currently doesn't run on the 2nd generation iPod nano. This is due in part to undocumented hardware, and a very nasty firmware encryption that we can not figure out.
13:26:05	dendemeier	you suck Steve Jobs
13:26:07	dendemeier	:/
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16:12:52	bluebrother	domonoky: which version of Qt are you using? 4.4.3?
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16:17:21	domonoky	bluebrother: 4.4.1 on windows.
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16:59:42	bluebrother	domonoky1: for some reason copying the vbs from the resource to the temp path seems to fail all the time, thus the call failing. Haven't figured why copying isn't working anymore. Interestingly it creates a temporary file with the contents of the vbs.
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18:15:13	Segadude	hey is there any hope for an iPod Touch version of rockbox?
18:15:49	AlexP	Not unless some one does the work
18:15:54	Torne	not any time soon; the firmware is encrypted and the hardware is totally different to all the previous iPods
18:16:07	AlexP	It'd probably be better as an application on the touch too
18:16:23	AlexP	Torne: I think the touch can be jailbroken though
18:16:39	Segadude	i c. Alexp: I think so too
18:16:47	Torne	that doesn't necessarily give you the ability to reflash it with arbitrary stuff
18:16:54	Torne	it just means you can access some of the OS X-based OS
18:16:57	AlexP	Torne: I wouldn't reflash it
18:17:00	Torne	i'm not sure exactly, but still
18:17:08	AlexP	Torne: I'd run Rockbox as a pllication
18:17:11	Torne	yah.
18:17:15	saratogahome	you could run rockbox as an app on the touch but someone would have to write rockbox as an app first :)
18:17:15	AlexP	*application
18:17:19	Torne	so rockbox-as-app would have to happen first
18:17:22	AlexP	exactly
18:17:26	Torne	and then get ported to the iPhone
18:17:39	Torne	and then it'd still need jailbreaking because apple won't allow stuff that is intended to replace builtin apps
18:17:44	AlexP	yep
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18:18:59	Segadude	they would have ti make a new GUI tho
18:19:02	Segadude	*to
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18:33:45	amiconn	Hmm. Regarding the build problems of m68k-elf-gcc, there's a weird thing
18:34:01	amiconn	I can't even build it on my linux box anymore, but this used to work
18:34:54	amiconn	Now the question is whether this is due to some updated linux package, or due to some glitch in rockboxdev.sh (there were numerous changes since I last tried it on linux)
18:35:20	bertrik	I remember getting a problem with one of the crosscompilers, but it's a long time ago
18:38:50	*	amiconn suspects the latter, since the problem hits quite different systems
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18:55:19	linuxstb	amiconn: The problem seems to be the "-r" option added to "make".
18:56:35	amiconn	H,, what does that do?
18:56:44	amiconn	*Hmm,
18:56:46	linuxstb	Disables built-in rules.
18:56:50	amiconn	ah
18:57:01	linuxstb	It was needed because Apple added conflicting built-ins to their version of make.
18:57:01	amiconn	So gcc 3.4.x needs them?
18:57:21	amiconn	Does m68k-elf-gcc build on osx?
18:57:31	linuxstb	I'm just doing a clean compile now to confirm my guess.
18:57:51	linuxstb	But "make" in the libiberty directory worked for me, but "make -r" gives the error.
18:58:27	linuxstb	amiconn: I recall various people testing that patch before it was committed, but my guess would be that no-one tried all the compilers...
18:58:51	amiconn	Yeah, probably just the popular arm :\
18:59:35	linuxstb	Yes, works fine when "-r" is removed.
19:00
19:00:02	amiconn	Do you have access to an osx box?
19:00:46	linuxstb	Yes, I'll try.
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19:08:09	linuxstb	amiconn: Compiling m68k on OSX fails with the same problem.
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19:09:41		Nick JdGordon\|afk is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
19:10:02	amiconn	linuxstb: With or without the -r ?
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19:10:46	linuxstb	With the -r. You're right, I should test without...
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19:24:22	linuxstb	amiconn: Yes, m68k compiles fine without the -r. So that seems the fix.
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19:24:39	*	linuxstb will try the other two
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19:30:54	amiconn	linuxstb: Maybe it depends on the exact osx version? Something with 10.4.x vs. 10.5.x?
19:30:56	*	linuxstb discovers that the forums allow a 200KB text file to be quoted as part of a message, but not uploaded as an attachment...
19:31:22	linuxstb	amiconn: I guess that's possible.
19:32:06	linuxstb	Ah, sh fails as well. The problem seems to be compiling a ".m" file - I recall that Apple's makefile has a built-in for that extension.
19:32:18	linuxstb	I mean sh fails without -r.
19:32:45	AlexP	sh compiled OK for me on debian testing 64bit with -r I think
19:32:59	AlexP	I'll just check, but I'm pretty sure that only m68k failed
19:33:54	AlexP	yeah, seems to be there OK
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19:35:54	amiconn	Hmm, http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=20704
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19:36:29	AlexP	yes, it just seems it wasn't tested for m68k (or anything other than arm?)
19:36:49	amiconn	AlexP: All binutils and all other crosscompilers build with -r, just m68k-elf-gcc doesn't
19:37:05	linuxstb	The ".m" file is in binutils, so maybe we can use "-r" for binutils, but not gcc.
19:37:13	AlexP	amiconn: I know - I mean that they may not have been tested, so that may just be chance
19:37:18	amiconn	This is probably because gcc 3.4.x doesn't like -r. The others are 4.0.x or 4.1.x
19:37:49	amiconn	(that is how it behaves on cygwin and linux)
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19:47:10	AlexP	For the firewire ipods, does inserting firewire reboot to the Apple OF? i.e. does it work the same as USB does (prior to Rockbox USB)?
19:47:27	amiconn	yes
19:48:48	AlexP	I'm wondering about the manual note for ipod3g,ipod4g,ipodcolor,ipodmini that says "Firewire detection is not supported in Rockbox at the moment. Please use USB only." I take it that this isn't true?
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19:49:26	juane414	hey all i'm new to rockbox is there a way to sync with windows media player?
19:49:55	juane414	anyone?
19:50:21	AlexP	Patience - 30 seconds isn't long to read the question, let alone type out an answer
19:50:48	juane414	sorry thought everyone was afk
19:50:48	AlexP	With what player and what version of Rockbox?
19:50:59	AlexP	juane414: After 30 seconds wait?
19:51:05	juane414	ipod video 60g gen5
19:51:14	AlexP	What version of Rockbox?
19:51:32	juane414	latest release
19:51:36	juane414	3.2 i believe
19:51:42	AlexP	Could you check?
19:51:51	juane414	yup its 3.2
19:51:55		Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
19:52:41	AlexP	Then that uses the apple firmware for USB
19:53:04	juane414	and that means it's not possible?
19:53:05	AlexP	So wmp will treat it as a normal ipod
19:53:13	juane414	okay
19:53:46	juane414	well no big loss i haven't used itunes in ages anyway
19:53:54	JdGordon	amiconn: should reverting that -r commit fix my gcc compile problem?
19:53:57	juane414	been using sharepod
19:54:14	AlexP	JdGordon: only for m68k
19:54:20	juane414	thanks for answering my question alex
19:54:23	JdGordon	that happens to be my problem :)
19:54:36	AlexP	JdGordon: reverting it will break it on macosx for the others
19:54:48	linuxstb	I think the fix is to only use -r for binutils.
19:55:10	linuxstb	i.e. revert that -r commit, and explicity add "-r" to the make line for binutils.
19:55:54	linuxstb	The problem on OSX is only with .m files, which only exist in binutils.
19:56:22		Quit juane414 ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]")
19:56:58	JdGordon	<1 min m68k gcc compile on my quad core :)
19:57:17	JdGordon	of course, thats with ccache from months ago, but sitll lightning fast :)
19:57:23	JdGordon	and yes, removing -r fixed it
19:58:15	JdGordon	Bagder: you can add m68k back onto my build server
19:58:31	Bagder	cool
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20:00
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20:04:43	Darren415	What is the best video format for rockbox?
20:05:12	Bagder	mpeg2
20:05:36	Darren415	do you know of a converter thats free?
20:05:44	Bagder	many, see the wiki page
20:06:42	Darren415	ty
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20:07:05	*	GodEater likes the easy questions
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20:11:14	CIA-38	New commit by dave (r20899): Revert r20704 and only use the -r option when compiling binutils. This is good enough to fix compilation of the toolchains on OSX, but doesn't break ...
20:11:19		Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:11:37	*	linuxstb was about to type something to say he's changed rockboxdev.sh, but CIA-38 beat him...
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20:15:20	Darren415	I'm not seeing anything about converters on the wiki
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20:15:34	linuxstb	Darren415: You want the PluginMpegplayer page
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20:18:50	AlexP	amiconn: I'm wondering about the manual note for ipod3g,ipod4g,ipodcolor,ipodmini that says "Firewire detection is not supported in Rockbox at the moment. Please use USB only." I take it that this isn't true?
20:19:37	tomers	Does anybody know for I can publish my private git repository on a remote machine that I have an user account for, and which I can connect to using SSH?
20:21:23		Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@g229175198.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:22:09	linuxstb	AlexP: "svn blame" says you wrote that... Or did you just reformat?
20:22:18	AlexP	I just reformatted
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20:22:26	Grahack	tomers: read-only or read-write ?
20:22:49	bluebrother	tomers: yes you can. There's an interesting article here: http://scie.nti.st/2007/11/14/hosting-git-repositories-the-easy-and-secure-way
20:23:47	linuxstb	AlexP: Seems febs added it in r11887 (Jan 2007), so I'm guessing it's out of date. I recall amiconn working on firewire detection. But wait for him to confirm.
20:24:02	Darren415	Should I be able to play video on an ipod that shouldnt otherwise play video with rockbox?
20:24:33	tomers	Grahack: I have read-write access
20:24:36		Quit firedix ("Ex-Chat")
20:24:40	AlexP	linuxstb: Yes, he said that it works just as USB does, so I'm (pretty damn) sure it is out-of-date :)
20:24:43	linuxstb	Darren415: Yes, Rockbox plays videos on ipods that Apple doesn't.
20:24:50	tomers	bluebrother: Thanks
20:24:58	linuxstb	Darren415: Which ipod do you have?
20:25:04	Darren415	1st gen nano
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20:25:23	linuxstb	Darren415: Then video should work well in Rockbox - because of the small screen.
20:25:45	Darren415	well I have a cable to hook it to my tv so I can download movies and watch them there instead of burning them.
20:26:00	linuxstb	Rockbox doesn't support the TV-out.
20:26:13	Darren415	ok
20:26:21	linuxstb	(I don't even known if the Nano has one)
20:26:32	Darren415	I can play audio though the tv
20:27:25	AlexP	Er, but aren't you just using the headphone socket?
20:27:29	Darren415	no
20:27:47	AlexP	so how is it connedted?
20:28:11	Darren415	the Ipod connector thingy
20:28:20	AlexP	That is just using a line out
20:28:26	AlexP	And is quite different to video
20:28:36	Darren415	ok
20:28:43	AlexP	Anyway, regardless of whether the nano has video out, Rockbox doesn't support it
20:29:00	linuxstb	But even if the Nano had a TV out, the CPU in the Nano would never be able to fill a TV screen with video - it's far too slow.
20:29:04	Darren415	is there any plugins that do or is it completely unsupported?
20:29:07	Grahack	tomers: YOU have read-write access but do you need that others have? If yes, the link that bluebrother sent is great, if no, you can simply publish with http (To publish via HTTP section of http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2007/09/how-to-publish-git-repository.html)
20:29:08	gartral	does rockbox support the video out on any target?
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20:29:34	linuxstb	gartral: There's some work-in-progress for the ipod video in a flyspray patch.
20:30:33	*	gartral wonders what it would take to get video out on the mr100s..
20:30:39	AlexP	Darren415: All plugins that we know of come with Rockbox. Besides, video out wouldn't be a plugin, it would be core capability. It isn't supported
20:30:42	linuxstb	Darren415: It's impossible - there is no tv-out hardware in the 1st gen Nano (I've just googled...)
20:30:56	AlexP	cd ..
20:31:02	AlexP	damn
20:33:53	Darren415	ty
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20:35:40	tomers	Grahack: The remote server has no git installed. I am only able to transfer files to it, and I have my own ~/public_html directory, available at tomers/">http://myserver.com/~tomers/
20:37:30	gevaerts	I guess you don't need other to write to it, so http is probably good enough
20:37:39	Grahack	tomers: great, so everything you need is here: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2007/09/how-to-publish-git-repository.html, in the relevant section
20:38:13	Grahack	so you'll have full access with ssh:// and others read-only with http://
20:40:20	tomers	Grahack: Oh, I saw there 'chmod +x /git/.... ' and I thought it is now relevant for me. Now I get it - it means doing it on your development machine. I should have RTFM
20:43:39	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:45:24	Grahack	only the section starting with "To publish via HTTP" is relevant for you.
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20:48:37	evilwombat	Hello. Has anyone ever tried replacing an ajbrec's 2.5" hdd with a CF card and adapter?
20:48:49	Grahack	tomers: arf sorry, you're in the right section, you have to "chmod +x my_repo.git/hooks/post-update" on the server
20:49:29	Grahack	tomers: I'm not sure to understand your problem...
20:53:38	CIA-38	New commit by alex (r20900): Properly capitalise "Rockbox", and rewrite a couple of small sections. Some of this is taken from FS #9880 by Johannes Linke.
20:55:41		Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
20:55:48	gartral	would anyone be intrested in a minor keymap patch for solitaire?
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20:56:53	AlexP	depends what it does :)
20:58:21	gartral	causes solitaire to not jump to menu on power key press, and when the key was released
20:58:58	AlexP	Is it on FS?
20:59:01		Quit faemir (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:59:24	gartral	not yet, i wanted to see if anyone was intrested, i'll upload now
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21:00
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21:02:31	*	gartral spots he made a mistake
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21:10:26	gartral	and since i dont really know how most of the players respond, this is for sansas as of right now
21:10:47	AlexP	you can check using the sim
21:11:06	bluebrother	domonoky: news on FS
21:11:15	bluebrother	FS #10190: it is a Qt issue :(
21:11:39	gartral	AlexP: ide have to compile for every sim..
21:11:50	AlexP	gartral: yes, you would
21:12:06	AlexP	gartral: But if you want to do it properly...
21:12:15	tomers	Grahack: Thanks for the info. I'll look into it. I think there's no problem...
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21:13:18	linuxstb	gartral: Not every sim, just every keypad. e.g. you only need one ipod build.
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21:13:39	domonoky	bluebrother: bad. that probably also affects other parts of rbutil (bootloaderinstallfile for example). We should build a new windows binary with a older Qt version i think.
21:14:26	bluebrother	it won't affect bootloaderinstallfile as that doesn't use resources. I'll try to create a new binary with Qt 4.5.0 and check if the issue appears too.
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21:15:12	gartral	linuxstb: yea, didnt think of that, speaking of, ever look into OVPsim?
21:15:33	linuxstb	No, never heard of it...
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21:17:55	linuxstb	gartral: I doubt many people would want to invest time in using proprietory tools with Rockbox though.
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21:21:13	domonoky	bluebrother: ah, i thought it affected all copies (as there are reported (unverfied) problems with bootloader install on mrobe100 and gigabeat).
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21:30:33	bluebrother	well at least from the tt bug I linked in the task it only affects when copying from resources. Maybe I should check the copying in the bootloader install too
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21:31:19	froggyman	#rockbox-community
21:31:26	froggyman	#rockbox-community
21:31:37	bluebrother	froggyman: it doesn't work this way.
21:31:43	bertrik	froggyman, I think you mean /join #rockbox-community
21:31:46	bluebrother	you want to use /join at the beginning
21:32:18	froggyman	yeah i know, it tried copying and pasting it in but it just put it in the chat right away
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21:34:19	froggyman	anyone know why the WPS themes from this site dont seem to be working properly? (linuxstb.cream.org/themes/index.php?model=ipodvideo64mb#ipod%20simple">http://linuxstb.cream.org/themes/index.php?model=ipodvideo64mb#ipod%20simple)
21:34:34	AlexP	Because it is very old?
21:34:35	*	linuxstb wonders where froggyman got that URL from
21:34:56	AlexP	And also not the theme site?
21:35:28	Ubuntuxer	Hi, Please have a look at my patch. FS #10193 The patch adds a standart game menu to brickmania, pegbox, rockblox, spacerocks and jewels and slightly improve the usability of the games.
21:35:35	froggyman	no, the regular ones from the "current" theme site work, just not those
21:36:00	AlexP	yes, I know
21:36:07	AlexP	That is not the theme site, and old
21:36:16	AlexP	froggyman: Where did you find the URL for it?
21:36:18	bluebrother	well, then the theme is incompatible. You need to fix it
21:36:43	froggyman	alexP i got that after searching the forums a bit...
21:36:49	Ubuntuxer	kugel is right, that I had rather divide it into different patches, but I can't do it anymore
21:37:31	AlexP	huh
21:38:01	linuxstb	Ubuntuxer: It's hard for people to review such a patch, so it's less likely to get committed.
21:38:37	*	froggyman realizes that linuxstb took down the archived theme site
21:39:07	linuxstb	froggyman: It was never "the archived theme site".
21:39:32	linuxstb	It was just a test I shared temporarily, and forgot to remove.
21:39:53	froggyman	ahh, but it was still a copy of it
21:39:53		Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
21:40:02	AlexP	no it wasn't
21:40:48	Ubuntuxer	I would be deeply grateful, if someone still review it.
21:41:34	AlexP	Ubuntuxer: It'll be much more likely to be reviewed if you split it up
21:41:36	linuxstb	Why "can't" it be devided into different patches?
21:42:41	linuxstb	Ubuntuxer: Do your files have tabs in them? The alignment looks broken in the diff.
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21:43:31	Ubuntuxer	Actually not
21:43:36	Ubuntuxer	I will review it
21:47:43	Ubuntuxer	Why do you think it looks broken? I used always four spaces.
21:48:32	linuxstb	I'm looking at the diff in firefox - I'm guessing it's using 8 spaces for tab characters.
21:49:24	linuxstb	Which is why Rockbox source shouldn't have tab characters - use actual space characters.
21:50:56	linuxstb	Ubuntuxer: Looking at pegbox for example, is there a reason to rename those functions to add pegbox_ to the start?
21:51:49	preglow	tabs ftw
21:51:55	preglow	if only people would use them properly
21:54:32	Ubuntuxer	I thought problems occurs if two funtions have the same name.
21:55:07	Ubuntuxer	I wanted to except that
21:57:18	Ubuntuxer	If you would like I will delete all this tiny non-functional changes.
21:57:29	linuxstb	Ubuntuxer: Unless there's a function with the same name in the plugin-lib, it's not a problem.
21:58:08	linuxstb	Ubuntuxer: From a quick look, your patch seems to do three things: 1) Cosmetic changes; 2) bugfixes; 3) new features. Split across many plugins...
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22:00
22:00:34	Ubuntuxer	ok, what do you think about the new features?
22:02:36	linuxstb	I'm not sure what they are... But it's good to see someone working on plugins - they're generally abandoned after their initial development.
22:03:17	evilwombat	Hey guys- is there any development at all happening on the old Archos targets?
22:03:53	preglow	well, you could argue most non-target specific rockbox development is also archos development
22:04:06	preglow	anything in particular you're thinking about?
22:04:23	evilwombat	this is true, but I meant things like the wav codec, any possible B/W or small-screen plugins, etc
22:05:15	evilwombat	i rarely plug this thing into computer anymore (it lives in my car) and am thinking about updating the RB on it.. seeing what to expect, etc
22:05:58		Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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22:06:59	Ubuntuxer	@linuxstb: just test it please, you will notice immediately the small improvements.
22:07:19	preglow	evilwombat: i'd say that very few developers care about the archoses anymore
22:07:29	preglow	some do use them, tho
22:07:38	evilwombat	preglow, aah, I see... sadly this is the only rb device i own :( and I'm poor
22:08:04	evilwombat	preglow, maybe you might know.. I have an arjrec 10GB, so it's got USB 1.1. I heard the bigger models used USB 2.0. Any ideas on how they got away with this?
22:08:14	preglow	none whatsoever
22:08:15	evilwombat	Is it just a different version of the same chip?
22:08:17	evilwombat	aah
22:08:17	preglow	i've only ever seen archoses :>
22:08:21		Join mt [0] (n=MTee@41.233.144.53)
22:08:29	preglow	my first rockbox device was an iriver h120
22:08:39	evilwombat	ah, nice. that is a good one
22:08:42	preglow	indeed it is
22:09:00	evilwombat	if i can get usb 2.0, i'm considering bringing this thing up to full operation.. fixing the charge controller, etc
22:09:23	evilwombat	if the chip is pin-compatible, it can be exchanged..
22:09:39	evilwombat	but i've no idea if the rest of the device is changed
22:10:49	preglow	well, me neither :)
22:11:43	evilwombat	who did the reverse-engineering on those devices? linus?
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22:12:10	mt	linuxstb , saratoga : I was able to manually apply the necessary modifications to cook.c from the patch to convert it to fixed-point.
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22:12:33	mt	cook.c r 18079 not the old one form 2007
22:12:41	Ubuntuxer	I've got a question about the function splash(). If I change the font size the text is cut off. Is it a known bug ? Could it be that it just occurs on my fuze?
22:12:43		Quit BHSPitMonkey (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:13:44	Unhelpful	Ubuntuxer: if you change the font size, you change the amount of space needed to display the text...
22:14:30		Quit arohtar (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:14:48		Quit bmbl (No route to host)
22:14:52	Ubuntuxer	but the text box doesn't change size
22:15:06	linuxstb	mt: That's good news.
22:15:29	linuxstb	mt: Now add multi-channel support ;)
22:15:33	n1s	Ubuntuxer: that sounds like a bug, likely introduced with recent changes to the splash functionn
22:16:02	mt	linuxstb : sure, why not ? :)
22:16:04	n1s	Ubuntuxer: pleas post a bug report in our tracker with details on how to reproduce it
22:16:18	Ubuntuxer	ok
22:17:07	preglow	evilwombat: several people, i think
22:17:16	preglow	all of the swedes and more
22:17:37	mt	linuxstb : I'd like to show you my modifications first though before making a patch.
22:17:53	AlexP	Wasn't the h100 chosen in part becuase the hardware was reasonably documented as well?
22:17:59	preglow	aye
22:18:07	preglow	an approach we should have stuck to :P
22:18:40	bluebrother	indeed :)
22:18:58	linuxstb	preglow: Or an approach we wished the manufacturers had stuck to...
22:19:16	mt	linuxstb : Should I drop lfg for the current patch, and use cook_random or rand(), or would it be better if this happens in another patch ?
22:19:47	linuxstb	mt: My personal preference is for lots of small patches. That way, the commit messages are more useful.
22:19:59	preglow	linuxstb: a fair point..
22:21:01		Quit schrottplatz ("o.O")
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22:22:03	mt	linuxstb : OK. not-so-few modifications had been done to cook.c though.
22:23:29	linuxstb	mt: BTW, don't forget copyright headers on new files - I added one to cook.h before committing your last patch.
22:23:38	Ubuntuxer	FS #10197
22:23:39	mt	I'll do a patch that should change cookdata.h , create cook_fixpoint.h, cookdata_fixpoint.h and cook_fix_mdct.h in addition to modifying cook.c.
22:24:43	mt	linuxstb : I was going to add one to cook.h, but I thought I didn't really do anything there, I just moved some declarations to a separate file.
22:25:15	n1s	mt: just a thought, have you looked if you can use the mdct present in the rockbox codec lib, it could save you a lot of work if you could use it
22:27:00	mt	n1s : no I haven't. I'll look into that, but I think the fixed-point mdct produced by the patch is similar to that used in rockbox. (I remember saratoga saying something like that ? )
22:30:15	evilwombat	Alright, forgive the denseness. What the devil is rockblox1d?
22:30:31	n1s	one dimensional rockblox!
22:30:39	evilwombat	so it would appear
22:31:17		Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
22:31:17	gevaerts	it's for people who find rockblox too hard
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22:33:05		Quit tomers ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042523]")
22:33:31	mt	n1s : yes, just looked into rockbox's mdct, it's the same are the one cook uses ( both imported from tremor ).
22:33:39	mt	s/are/as
22:34:29	n1s	mt: that's good news as our version is pretty optimized for our targets (and avoids duplication) :)
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22:43:43	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:46:17	mt	linuxstb : Modifications to cook.c will have to be done all in one patch, to make it compile and work properly. (Most of the decoding-related functions will be changed )
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23:00
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23:10:29	froggyman	what are the benefits of using CF vs. a hard drive in a iPod?
23:10:46	gevaerts	seek time and power usage
23:10:55	JdGordon	solid state so you dont have to be so carefull with it
23:10:57	gevaerts	also shock resistance
23:11:49	Llorean	Basically, if CF comes in an acceptable capacity and price for you, it's the better choice
23:12:00	JdGordon	gevaerts: where's the best place to put a setting check to only charge or connect to usb?
23:12:52	gevaerts	JdGordon: usb_power_button() in firmware/usb.c
23:13:01	froggyman	Llorean: thanks
23:13:09	JdGordon	arg, why did my e200 with a brand new bootloader boot the OF when usb is connected?
23:13:28	froggyman	so would i be able to expect higher battery life with a CF card in then?
23:13:30	gevaerts	JdGordon: brand new bootloader from where?
23:13:38	JdGordon	svn
23:14:58		Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
23:15:01	gevaerts	that's weird
23:15:35	gevaerts	froggyman: CF may be slower though. Still fast enough for normal use, but noticeable when copying files
23:16:21	JdGordon	nope, bootloader didnt update :(
23:16:21	pixelma	I didn't think the new bootloaders were released, not sure though
23:16:37	AlexP	they aren't
23:16:54	AlexP	There are some on a flyspray task, but svn should do it too :)
23:17:09		Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:17:19	froggyman	gevaerts: so what about battery life, is it like a huge drop (around 50%), minimal drop, or minimal increase?
23:17:56	JdGordon	why the heck isnt sansapatcher installing the new bootloader?
23:18:03	gevaerts	froggyman: I haven't tested this, but as far as I know CF should be better
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23:21:19		Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
23:23:08	JdGordon	arg, really.. wtf? I've removed the rbbl, sudo eject /dev/sdc, reconnected it, used sansapatcher to list the loaders and it shows none, reinstall the rbbl, eject again and its still showing the bl from nov 07
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23:27:09	bertrik	so, maybe you're just installing the old bootloader by accident
23:27:25	JdGordon	nope
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23:28:18		Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
23:28:42	mt	linuxstb, saratoga : New patch is in the task now :)
23:29:21	JdGordon	oh joy... the OF is now not loadable
23:32:38		Quit evilwombat ("^D")
23:33:42	linuxstb	mt: Can you add some text to README.rockbox describing these changes? Are all the changes from patches to ffmpeg, or are some your work?
23:34:01	linuxstb	i.e. give links to where you got the patches from, and say which you applied.
23:34:39	mt	OK.
23:35:01		Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
23:40:35	JdGordon	linuxstb: have you got any ideas why sansapatcher and rbutil both cant seem to do anything with the firware partition?
23:40:58	JdGordon	both say successfully removed/installed the bootloader, but nothing gets changed
23:44:29	linuxstb	JdGordon: Sorry, no.
23:46:04		Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:46:47	mt	linuxstb : is this enough ? (http://pastebin.com/d1fd86890)
23:48:12	linuxstb	mt: Looks good to me. Although you could say "An uncommitted patch from ffmpeg's mailing list..." (and you wrote maling instead of mailing)
23:48:17		Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
23:49:29	mt	linuxstb : parts of the patch were committed. (" a partially committed patch ".. ? :) )
23:52:15	mt	linuxstb : how about this - http://pastebin.com/d7c7fe433
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