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| 00:18:05 | CIA-38 | New commit by peter (r21045): Update Dutch language file. Not overly happy with the translation of this, though... |
| 00:18:32 | * | petur thinks the performance of cia-38 is impressive |
| 00:20:34 | JdGordon| | it get it before svn ci exited? |
| 00:21:28 | AlexP | yeah, it is rather speedy |
| 00:21:34 | saratoga | yeah i think its hooked in as soon as the SVN connection is initiated |
| 00:22:00 | petur | time between commit and message was < 1s |
| 00:22:11 | saratoga | before the changes are transmitted, at least i've seen it ping the channel before a commit finishes |
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| 00:44:38 | CIA-38 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21046): Lua: ... |
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| 00:46:57 | * | Llorean doesn't like commit messages that don't say anything |
| 00:47:32 | AlexP | Bad CIA-38! |
| 00:47:46 | AlexP | mcuelenaere confused it by including too much information :) |
| 00:48:09 | mcuelenaere | hèhè, /me guesses CIA doesn't like newlines :) |
| 00:48:27 | Unhelpful | there's more in the log, but yes, CIA seems to trim at the first newline :/ |
| 00:48:46 | AlexP | That's why I never use them |
| 00:49:03 | AlexP | Or spaces, or in fact punctuation of any kind, just to be sure |
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| 00:49:40 | Unhelpful | you should contract words in non-standard ways as well, beacues i'm pretty sure it trims on character count, too. |
| 00:52:33 | AlexP | Unhelpful: Good plan |
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| 00:54:26 | Unhelpful | that way you can make sure that even if you radically alter nearly every part of rockbox, wcnstllrdthcmmtmsgnhr. |
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| 01:00 |
| 01:02:54 | linuxstb | petur: (Sorry I'm a bit late to ask this, but it wasn't mentioned in the commit message or visible on the front page) Why commit dbestfit as part of the PDa plugin? If it's in Rockbox at all, wouldn't it be better in the plugin lib? |
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| 01:11:54 | domonoky | linuxstb: as far as i know, he needs a full blown memory manager, (ie buflib isnt enough). So dbestfit is better as something selfwritten :-) Dont know if moving it into the plugin lib is a good idea (we dont want to encurage use of this, when not really needed). |
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| 01:14:01 | | Join Tyr [0] (n=tyrswrat@dc5146e112.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 01:14:23 | Tyr | wow lots people in here |
| 01:14:41 | domonoky | and maybe he can modifiy the code, so we could remove dbestfit later again.. :-) But thats something to decide for wincent_balin itself. |
| 01:14:47 | CIA-38 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21047): Set svn properties |
| 01:15:09 | AlexP | domonoky: himself surely - we dont rank students quite that low (yet) :) |
| 01:15:39 | domonoky | ups.. :-) |
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| 01:18:16 | saratoga | domonoky: we've actually got a patch sitting on the tracker for adding dbestfit to the codeclib |
| 01:18:39 | saratoga | FS #9885 - Add malloc library to codeclib |
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| 01:20:39 | domonoky | ah, didnt know about that. Then it might be better to finish this task, and remove dbestfit from PDa. |
| 01:20:47 | | Quit andrewbeveridge (Client Quit) |
| 01:20:59 | saratoga | can codec and plugin code be shared? |
| 01:21:02 | Unhelpful | buflib does as much to manage memory as you can do without virtual memory. the major barrier to using it in imported code is that it does *not* have an API anything like malloc. |
| 01:21:30 | | Join andrewbeveridge [0] (n=chatzill@88-109-101-174.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 01:21:45 | Unhelpful | saratoga: surely the same methods used for pluginlib scaler/bmp/jpeg would work for importing items from the codec lib... |
| 01:21:53 | | Part andrewbeveridge |
| 01:23:09 | Unhelpful | buflib can compact free space, while dbestfit can't possibly do that - *but* dbestfit gives you a pointer to your allocation that will never change until you free it. |
| 01:24:32 | saratoga | does pda have a way to flush the malloc buffer? thats the only thing I couldn't figure out in the codeclib |
| 01:25:34 | Unhelpful | i'm sure if you free al allocations you can get back to one contiguous block, if that's what you mean... |
| 01:26:19 | saratoga | i needed someway to reset the malloc on codec changes so that a leak in one codec coudln't crash a different codec later on |
| 01:26:40 | Unhelpful | actually, buflib can now make *one* allocation with a fixed address, via the buffer_in/buffer_out method |
| 01:27:32 | domonoky | saratoga: woulnt it be better to check for leftover buffers and warn after a codec exits ? Then those leaks could get fixed :-) |
| 01:27:33 | Unhelpful | saratoga: you might need to look at how that particular malloc initializes, and add a function to reset its state, if it doesn't have one |
| 01:28:13 | saratoga | i tried adding such a function but never got it right |
| 01:28:38 | saratoga | i don't see any sense in looking for leaks in the codecs, if I'm going to do that I might as well start rewriting them to not use malloc in the first place |
| 01:29:06 | saratoga | leaks are harmless with the current malloc anyway |
| 01:29:27 | saratoga | (since we don't even have a free!) |
| 01:29:41 | Unhelpful | that's not always practical, if they have a certain maximum total allocation, but it's split different ways depending on the file... |
| 01:32:17 | domonoky | and couldnt those leaks build-up if you play many files with the same codec ? |
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| 01:33:32 | Unhelpful | i think a malloc reset between files, even with the same codec in use, might be a very good idea... |
| 01:33:48 | saratoga | domonoky: no codecs reset their mallocs on track change |
| 01:33:56 | saratoga | they have to since we don't actually have a free() |
| 01:34:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:34:28 | domonoky | ah, now i understand.. |
| 01:34:48 | * | Unhelpful thought you just said you were never able to work out a malloc reset... |
| 01:35:39 | saratoga | not for a real malloc |
| 01:36:04 | saratoga | for the current one its really easy, you just reset the malloc pointer |
| 01:36:25 | saratoga | and since this is what free looks like: #define _ogg_free(x) do { } while(0) |
| 01:36:27 | saratoga | it works fine |
| 01:36:37 | Unhelpful | guh! |
| 01:37:16 | saratoga | but for dbestfit trying to reset the thing typically crashed on track changes |
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| 01:38:13 | Unhelpful | i seem to recall that the "init" function for dbestfit just adds a new chunk to the buffer? |
| 01:39:15 | saratoga | Unhelpful: yes it does, but readding the same chunk does not work |
| 01:40:03 | Unhelpful | right, because the chunk is already in whatever list dbestfit keeps... where does it track that? perhaps we just need to be able to reset that list? |
| 01:40:57 | | Part andrewbeveridge |
| 01:41:39 | saratoga | it uses some sort of tree structure that I didn't understand |
| 01:43:02 | * | domonoky would think that to reinit dbestfit it would be enought to reinit top[]. |
| 01:43:15 | * | mcuelenaere wonders how hard it would be to get splashf to learn \\n |
| 01:46:06 | CIA-38 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21048): Lua: add stack traceback when erroring out |
| 01:51:54 | domonoky | wincent_balin: we are thinking about moving dbestfit from your plugin into pluginlib/codeclib as others could benefit from it too (see FS #9885) what do you think ? |
| 01:52:37 | wincent_balin | I say yes. Less for me to take care of :-) |
| 01:52:56 | domonoky | or, more... someone has todo the neccessary work :-) |
| 01:53:13 | | Join |unjustice| [0] (n=kvirc@c-24-2-147-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:53:15 | |unjustice| | Hi, |
| 01:53:28 | | Quit HellDragon (Success) |
| 01:54:13 | |unjustice| | I am trying to format my 4G ipod mini with two partitions, but I am not sure how big to make them it says (1-1032) when I try fdisk |
| 01:56:13 | gevaerts | you could download the mbr from http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32 and see what's there |
| 01:56:57 | domonoky | wincent_balin: did you already use dbestfit successfully in PDa ? i only see it with #if 0 in your patch. |
| 01:58:00 | wincent_balin | The next step is to run the messaging system in the allocated memory. |
| 01:59:16 | |unjustice| | I already tried to autodetect my ipod and it did not work becaus of HFS+, but in order to make it FAT32, I have to partition the hd for a filesystem...not sure how big to make the partitions, I erased the pre-existing ones |
| 01:59:47 | Llorean | |unjustice|: Follow the link gevaerts pasted |
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| 02:00 |
| 02:00:28 | Unhelpful | would it perhaps be possible, just for the targets that *have* an MMU, to make use of virtual memory for the buffer a malloc implementation uses? that would all a real/useful free |
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| 02:01:57 | | Quit froggyman ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 02:01:59 | andrewbeveridge | hi, anybody here willing to guess why I can't complete my wiki registration? clicking the verify link takes me to a 403 Forbidden page |
| 02:07:11 | andrewbeveridge | actually, could anybody please click this link for me, just to save my sanity and confirm there is somthing wrong with the rockbox TWiki? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/register?action=verify;code=AndrewBeveridge.660054076 |
| 02:07:16 | |unjustice| | Llorean: that link is not helpful if I cannot write to the ipod |
| 02:07:58 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: Can you sign in and edit pages? |
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| 02:08:00 | |unjustice| | Llorean: I need to know how to partition a filesystem prior to adding the mbr thing, I cannot seem to mount the device |
| 02:08:51 | linuxstb | The mbr _is_ the partitioning. It's simply written to the first sector of the disk. You don't need to (or want to) mount it before doing that. |
| 02:09:35 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: nope |
| 02:10:14 | |unjustice| | linuxstb: but I need a filesystem so that I can write a partition table |
| 02:10:33 | |unjustice| | linuxstb: FAT32, this just says plug it into a windows box with itunes |
| 02:10:37 | |unjustice| | but I do not have that |
| 02:10:37 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: You'll have to ask the wiki admins - that'd be Bagder probably. Unfortunately it is currently 02:10 in the morning, so they are probably asleep |
| 02:11:32 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: ah, ok. no problem. Can you confirm that it is a problem with TWiki, and not just me? |
| 02:11:49 | gevaerts | |unjustice|: I think you're seriously confused about what filesystems and partition tables are |
| 02:11:51 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: I can't confirm it but it seems likely |
| 02:12:16 | |unjustice| | gevaerts: doubtful |
| 02:12:36 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: ok. I already emailed twiki@haxx.se but it's been a week so I guess I should just come back here at a less antisocial hour and hope Badger or somebody else can help me |
| 02:12:36 | AlexP | |unjustice|: You haven't siplayed any understanding yet |
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| 02:12:53 | Llorean | |unjustice|: Since a filesystem is unnecessary to write an MBR directly to the disk, I'm going to have to agree with gevaerts and AlexP |
| 02:12:58 | |unjustice| | gevaerts: the problem I have is this: there is no /dev/sdN, so I cannot move the mbr to that device |
| 02:13:04 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: I'll try to remember to prod him if I see him :) |
| 02:13:13 | |unjustice| | the link you suggested recommeds I use FAT32 |
| 02:13:14 | domonoky | |unjustice|: trust us, a mbr and partitioning is different to filesystems :-) |
| 02:13:18 | | Quit d3v14710n () |
| 02:13:20 | |unjustice| | no doubt |
| 02:13:26 | |unjustice| | never thought they were the same |
| 02:13:32 | |unjustice| | these are 2 separate problems |
| 02:13:54 | Unhelpful | |unjustice|: there are no disk devices *at all* for it? |
| 02:13:57 | Llorean | |unjustice|: A lack of /dev/sdN is completely different than a lack of filesystem, and unrelated. |
| 02:14:15 | Llorean | Well, the lack of filesystem might be a symptom, but not the cause |
| 02:14:22 | AlexP | You do not need a filesystem to write a partition - in fact, without a partition you cannot have a filesystem |
| 02:14:37 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: ok. I already emailed twiki@haxx.se but it's been a week so I guess I should just come back here at a less antisocial hour and hope Badger or somebody else can help me |
| 02:14:37 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: thanks =) |
| 02:14:47 | AlexP | It not appearing in /dev is completely unrelated |
| 02:14:55 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: no worries :) |
| 02:15:22 | | Quit HellDragon (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 02:15:24 | |unjustice| | last night I mounted it as /dev/sdc to moutn point /mnt/ipod |
| 02:15:24 | AlexP | |unjustice|: What does dmesg say when you plug it in? |
| 02:15:37 | andrewbeveridge | i was about to mention dmesg |
| 02:15:55 | AlexP | |unjustice|: You don't want to mount it to write a partition table, you just need to know the device |
| 02:16:04 | AlexP | Which dmesg should tell you |
| 02:16:48 | |unjustice| | it is sdb\ |
| 02:16:56 | * | andrewbeveridge wishes he could type faster |
| 02:16:59 | |unjustice| | but I cannot mount it, it prompts me to give it a filesystem |
| 02:17:09 | Llorean | You don't need to mount it. |
| 02:17:10 | gevaerts | of course you can't mount it |
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| 02:17:32 | AlexP | |unjustice|: At least four different people have now told you that you don't want to mount it |
| 02:17:46 | AlexP | |unjustice|: I suggest you read that page you were linked a good while ago |
| 02:17:50 | |unjustice| | I did |
| 02:17:55 | |unjustice| | 4 times |
| 02:17:58 | |unjustice| | I will read it again |
| 02:18:05 | AlexP | clearly not very thoroughly |
| 02:18:13 | gevaerts | |unjustice|: in that case, seriously, find a windows machine with itunes and let that do the job |
| 02:18:33 | Llorean | |unjustice|: I thought you said the device is /dev/sdb |
| 02:18:38 | Llorean | Sorry |
| 02:18:41 | Llorean | Scrolled up on accident, ignore me |
| 02:19:10 | Llorean | |unjustice|: You'll notice the first step on that page for the manual instructions is to *unmount* your device. your inability to mount it means you can skip that step |
| 02:19:32 | AlexP | |unjustice|: It nowhere says to mount it - the very first step is to *unmount* it |
| 02:19:43 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:20:00 | andrewbeveridge | unjustice: i would suggest you unplug your device, plug it back in, and do dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=1 |
| 02:20:10 | andrewbeveridge | to start afresh |
| 02:20:24 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: As long as it reappears on /dev/sdb :) |
| 02:20:42 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: aw who cares whats the worst that could happen? xP |
| 02:21:07 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: Well we shouldn't give people activly bad advice :) |
| 02:21:22 | AlexP | If he just reads that page and does what it actually says he should be fine |
| 02:21:44 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: aw shucks. ok now im gonna go check the irc log for the page url, i'm intrigued |
| 02:21:52 | | Quit mcuelenaere ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.") |
| 02:23:58 | andrewbeveridge | just thought of something i meant to ask a while ago; any idea who chose the distro for the VMware devel platform image? |
| 02:24:14 | andrewbeveridge | or, what thought process was used to choose it? |
| 02:24:30 | AlexP | lots of the devs use debian |
| 02:24:46 | Llorean | andrewbeveridge: It was what the person working on it decided to pick. |
| 02:24:51 | gevaerts | Most probably the person who made the image just chose what he prefers |
| 02:25:03 | andrewbeveridge | yeah, thats what i assumed. |
| 02:25:05 | Llorean | As far as I know, I don't think there was really much debate or anything |
| 02:25:10 | AlexP | none at all |
| 02:25:35 | AlexP | It just happens that many here favour debian (or debian derivatives), and the person that made it choose that |
| 02:25:54 | |unjustice| | I find this URL vague and not helpful, since the first step recommends unmounting |
| 02:25:57 | |unjustice| | which I cannot do |
| 02:26:05 | AlexP | So don't |
| 02:26:11 | andrewbeveridge | its just that for new linux users, that image is probably very scary. |
| 02:26:12 | AlexP | It isn't rocket science |
| 02:26:33 | AlexP | |unjustice|: First step is unmount, you are already not mounted, job done |
| 02:26:34 | | Quit _Auron_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 02:27:03 | Llorean | |unjustice|: I already told you that you can skip that step earlier, anyway. |
| 02:27:09 | AlexP | |unjustice|: Seriously, if you are struggling with this find a Windows machine and itunes restore. It will be easier for all of us |
| 02:27:32 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: was that addressed to me? if so, I know it isnt. but i also know if i was somebody who had no experience of linux it would be a lot harder to handle than, say, an opensuse image or possibly ubuntu |
| 02:27:48 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: No, not at you |
| 02:27:59 | |unjustice| | it was at me |
| 02:28:10 | | Quit hd (Client Quit) |
| 02:28:11 | |unjustice| | "xxxx" means what? |
| 02:28:14 | Llorean | andrewbeveridge: Someone who has no experience of Linux should probably be able to manage to learn the minimal knowledge needed if they're planning on developing Rockbox |
| 02:28:18 | gevaerts | andrewbeveridge: this is a bit off-topic, but it isn't any harder to use than those things you mention |
| 02:28:31 | |unjustice| | linux is easy to use |
| 02:28:45 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: They are given instructions though - it isn't meant as a "proper" VM, just as a linux environment that they can follow instructions in |
| 02:28:54 | AlexP | |unjustice|: It is the mbr that you downloaded |
| 02:29:09 | |unjustice| | okay, so I put that filename into the command? |
| 02:29:16 | AlexP | |unjustice|: yes |
| 02:30:02 | AlexP | |unjustice|: You saw the line that says "Replace mbr-xxxx.bin with the name of the MBR file you downloaded in step b). " I assume? |
| 02:30:10 | |unjustice| | I did |
| 02:30:22 | AlexP | So what is unclear about that? |
| 02:30:34 | andrewbeveridge | ok, i guess i understand that logic. and to be honest, if somebody wants to develop rockbox, its gonna help if they are happy with linux anyway. |
| 02:31:23 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: I don't see why this choice is any harder than any other given its function (or just anyway) |
| 02:31:24 | andrewbeveridge | "mbr-xxxx.bin" means "a file starting with "mbr-" and ending with ".bin" |
| 02:31:47 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: Even if he didn't get that I think "Replace mbr-xxxx.bin with the name of the MBR file you downloaded in step b)." is fairly clear |
| 02:32:20 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: oops i didn't read that. sorry >< |
| 02:32:32 | |unjustice| | yes, I understand that now |
| 02:32:46 | | Quit KBH (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:34:26 | andrewbeveridge | AlexP: I guess i measure "difficulty" of distro on a "similarity to MS windows" scale, for most new users. and Debian is pretty low on the scale compared with a couple others. mainly because of the lack of KDE (or even Gnome) |
| 02:34:50 | gevaerts | please, this is getting far off topic |
| 02:34:54 | Llorean | andrewbeveridge: But Rockbox development *requires* terminal use. |
| 02:34:54 | |unjustice| | agreed |
| 02:34:59 | AlexP | that is a choice for the VM to keep the download size down, nothing to do with Debian |
| 02:35:09 | |unjustice| | so, how do I figure out the name of the ipod? |
| 02:35:15 | Llorean | In that context, "difficulty" is basically equal for the compiling part, and everything else can be done outside of the VM |
| 02:35:31 | AlexP | andrewbeveridge: but yes, #rockbox-community is good for stuff like this |
| 02:35:44 | Llorean | |unjustice|: For which step? |
| 02:36:05 | andrewbeveridge | okies, topic dropped (it was reallt just a whimsical thought anyway) |
| 02:36:07 | |unjustice| | um...several anytime it says diskN after unplugging |
| 02:36:14 | |unjustice| | so |
| 02:36:56 | Llorean | |unjustice|: As it says at the top of the page, those are Mac instructions. |
| 02:37:09 | |unjustice| | I am not getting any output from the first command that contains the name of the ipod |
| 02:37:14 | gevaerts | Have a look at the IpodManualRestore page. That will probably help |
| 02:37:16 | Llorean | /dev/diskN is the Mac equivalent for /dev/sdN |
| 02:38:08 | |unjustice| | I guessed that, but the sdb command does not work, perhaps it was a typo, I will double check |
| 02:38:26 | | Join SirFunk__ [0] (n=Sir@208-15-25-145.netsync.net) |
| 02:39:00 | | Join kuber [0] (n=jbm@li35-208.members.linode.com) |
| 02:39:06 | andrewbeveridge | unjustice: pastebin the output from "dmesg | tail" after plugging it in? |
| 02:39:37 | kuber | hm. i have an ipod video black 80gb... I can't seem to play m4a files, though the manual lists them in 'Supported audio formats'.. when i go to files -> and try to play it just skips to the next file |
| 02:40:08 | |unjustice| | newfs_msdos is not a command |
| 02:40:17 | Llorean | kuber: What SVN revision are you running? |
| 02:40:35 | Llorean | |unjustice|: That's not the first step you should be doing |
| 02:40:43 | kuber | Llorean: i just grabbed the current build link , r21048 |
| 02:40:44 | |unjustice| | oh? what should I be doing? |
| 02:41:04 | Llorean | kuber: Are you sure they're not encrypted? Did you encode them yourself? |
| 02:41:10 | kuber | yeah, encoded with faac |
| 02:41:12 | | Quit Dauron (Connection timed out) |
| 02:41:15 | Llorean | |unjustice|: You should be doing them in order, not skipping to the filesystem one |
| 02:41:29 | Llorean | |unjustice|: Or you could try the link at the top of the page, the one with the red text, that says it's for people using Linux... |
| 02:41:44 | Llorean | kuber: It may be a metadata issue then. Do they have embedded album art? |
| 02:42:04 | kuber | no, this was just straight from a flac ripped to from cd then to faac |
| 02:42:12 | |unjustice| | ahhhh MUCH better thank you |
| 02:42:26 | Llorean | |unjustice|: You still need to do other things *before* making the filesystem |
| 02:42:32 | Llorean | Please don't try to do things out of order |
| 02:42:53 | kuber | when i try to play i get a now playing screen momentarily, with "TB\n(root)\n(root)" |
| 02:43:05 | Llorean | kuber: Unfortunately, you seem to have some sort of problem file. You'll need to figure out what's different about it, probably |
| 02:44:17 | kuber | hm. i wonder where i can find a reference file that should play |
| 02:44:38 | JdGordon | so, I've just come up with the wierd idea to write a function to put touchable buttons on screen (for touchscreens...) 1) do I bother making it multi-screen aware? I mean its probably not going to be wanted to be shown on remote screens, and 2) how programatically customizable do I make it? right now im only thinking text for the buttons... |
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| 02:45:24 | | Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]") |
| 02:45:33 | gevaerts | for what context is this? |
| 02:45:39 | Llorean | kuber: Files encoded with iTunes should play. Usually it's a metadata issue, so you could find a tool for manipulating MP4 containers and play with it |
| 02:46:53 | Llorean | JdGordon: I'd say touch buttons kinda need to be able to use images as well. |
| 02:47:22 | Llorean | Some things work much better as icons than text, since icons don't need to resize to fit translated strings |
| 02:47:23 | JdGordon | yeah, but not just yet I think... eventually icons would be nice |
| 02:47:54 | Llorean | Well, you were asking whether text was enough. :-P |
| 02:48:46 | Llorean | I'd also say try to make it multi-screen aware. Who knows when we'll get a DAP with the second screen being the touchscreen, or with multiple touchscreens. If possible, I'd say try to plan for this possibility (within reason if it really makes it far too complex, of course) |
| 02:49:08 | Llorean | I can pretty easily see a DAP with a touchscreen remote happening. |
| 02:49:39 | JdGordon | yeah, um... what I meant was do I let things specify where on the screen each button goes? or just the viewport to put them in and make a nice row of buttons? |
| 02:50:03 | JdGordon | and by multi-screen aware I meant draw it on both screen... the mr500 already has a remote lcd |
| 02:50:15 | JdGordon | but I doubt we'd ever get a remote lcd touchscreen |
| 02:50:37 | Llorean | I think a non touchscreen main unit with a touchscreen remote isn't too unlikely. |
| 02:51:18 | JdGordon | actually... hmm.. this could work anyway |
| 02:51:41 | JdGordon | seen as each screen would need to have the area set differently anyway |
| 02:53:16 | | Quit SirFunk_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:54:26 | | Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:56:56 | JdGordon | hmm... I could easily use the icon themeing system to do this... but that would eat up RAM (I'd do it from a seperate file so it wouldnt touch non TS targets) |
| 02:57:41 | * | JdGordon remembers his old icon patch still in the tracker which was going to be used to clean icons up if/when this sort of thing was ever needed |
| 02:57:52 | JdGordon | only it was done to make the statusbar themeable :D |
| 02:58:32 | JdGordon | yike! the patch is from 11-11-07! |
| 02:59:34 | dfkt | is there any simple album art downloader that saves a folder.jpg for rockbox? i know about AlbumArtAggretagtor and Album Art Downloadr XUI - both are pretty bad for my needs |
| 03:00 |
| 03:01:34 | |unjustice| | mkfs.vfat -F 32 /deokay, so I do not have sdb2, I am trying to do this: mkfs.vfat -F 32 /dev/sdX2 |
| 03:01:46 | |unjustice| | not sure how to go about it |
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| 03:03:02 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 03:04:08 | linuxstb | |unjustice|: Did you write the mbr successfully? |
| 03:04:18 | |unjustice| | yes |
| 03:04:32 | linuxstb | And then "hdparm -z /dev/sdb" ? |
| 03:04:37 | |unjustice| | yes |
| 03:05:27 | linuxstb | Try unplugging your ipod, then reattaching it. If you don't get a /dev/sdb2 then, then the mbr wasn't written. |
| 03:06:56 | |unjustice| | still not there |
| 03:07:04 | |unjustice| | so what? I just do it again? |
| 03:07:28 | linuxstb | Yes, try the "dd" command again. |
| 03:07:36 | linuxstb | (with the mbr) |
| 03:07:39 | | Part kuber |
| 03:07:55 | andrewbeveridge | dfkt: mediamonkey? or, mediamonkey in wine? |
| 03:08:46 | | Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@c-76-119-145-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:13:01 | |unjustice| | umm...should rbutilqt-v1.2.1 autodetect the ipod now? |
| 03:16:14 | linuxstb | |unjustice|: Have you succeeded in restoring it? |
| 03:19:31 | | Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") |
| 03:19:58 | |unjustice| | yes, all the steps were completed and sdb 1 and 2 are both in /dev |
| 03:20:21 | linuxstb | Does the Apple firmware now work? |
| 03:21:37 | |unjustice| | it already worked |
| 03:21:55 | gevaerts | that doesn't answer the question |
| 03:22:03 | |unjustice| | should I unplug and check? |
| 03:22:20 | |unjustice| | doesn't work |
| 03:22:23 | |unjustice| | wrong mbr? |
| 03:23:58 | linuxstb | Did you dd the "Firmware-X.Y.Z" file? |
| 03:24:06 | |unjustice| | yes |
| 03:24:17 | |unjustice| | 4.3.1.1 |
| 03:24:31 | | Join krazykit` [0] (i=josh@c-76-119-147-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:24:40 | gevaerts | did you dd the file you downloaded, or did you unzip it first? |
| 03:24:41 | |unjustice| | it just keeps showing a folder and an exclamation point |
| 03:24:41 | | Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:24:48 | |unjustice| | unzip it first |
| 03:27:04 | | Quit HellDragon (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:27:17 | | Join HellDragon [0] (n=jd@modemcable022.187-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:29:10 | |unjustice| | gevaerts: |
| 03:29:11 | |unjustice| | ? |
| 03:30:23 | linuxstb | |unjustice|: Either you did something wrong (try doing it all again), or there's a hardware problem with your ipod... |
| 03:31:43 | | Join lee321987 [0] (n=chatzill@01-041.244.popsite.net) |
| 03:32:27 | lee321987 | LUA scripting language on RB: What does the file extension have to be, and can it compile .rock files? |
| 03:33:20 | lee321987 | *file extension of an LUA script. |
| 03:34:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:34:19 | Unhelpful | lee321987: "compile .rock files" is not what a scripting language does, surely? |
| 03:34:34 | linuxstb | lee321987: "lua" |
| 03:35:58 | lee321987 | Sorry. |
| 03:36:19 | | Quit krazykit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 03:38:01 | | Quit |unjustice| (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 03:38:31 | | Join _unjustice_ [0] (n=kvirc@c-24-2-147-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:39:02 | _unjustice_ | BLKRRPART failed: Device or resource busy I get this error now that I am retrying this command "hdparm -z /dev/sdb" |
| 03:44:51 | lee321987 | RB VMware image: How do I _cleanly_ shut down? |
| 03:46:05 | linuxstb | _unjustice_: Is the ipod mounted? |
| 03:46:24 | _unjustice_ | lol no |
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| 03:52:59 | | Quit HellDragon (Client Quit) |
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| 03:53:43 | | Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|afk (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 03:54:35 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@188.16.75.177) |
| 03:56:34 | lee321987 | Whenever I try to shutdown the RB VMware image, it gets to the line "Power down.", and just sits there like that. |
| 03:57:15 | | Join HellDragon [0] (n=jd@modemcable022.187-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:57:28 | _unjustice_ | linuxstb: nope |
| 04:00 |
| 04:03:12 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
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| 04:22:31 | | Part wincent_balin ("Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org") |
| 04:24:35 | lee321987 | DEBIAN VM WON'T SHUT DOWN RIGHT |
| 04:24:41 | | Join ipodvideo5g [0] (n=639dd867@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7247845de3c3daad) |
| 04:24:55 | | Quit lee321987 ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]") |
| 04:25:04 | ipodvideo5g | hello |
| 04:25:49 | ipodvideo5g | i cant connect to my ipod |
| 04:26:04 | ipodvideo5g | it just goes directly to ok to disconnect |
| 04:27:07 | andrewbeveridge | no need to shout |
| 04:27:07 | andrewbeveridge | hi |
| 04:27:07 | andrewbeveridge | have you mounted it? |
| 04:27:18 | andrewbeveridge | wait, is this in windows or linux? |
| 04:28:40 | ipodvideo5g | it is windows it was working fine ive been using rockbox for about a year now... |
| 04:29:09 | krazykit` | what revision are you using? |
| 04:29:22 | ipodvideo5g | i beleive it might be related to the md5sum...cause stupid me i was wondering what the plugin was..so i ran it |
| 04:29:34 | _unjustice_ | BLKRRPART failed: Device or resource busy I get this error now that I am retrying this command "hdparm -z /dev/sdb" |
| 04:29:56 | andrewbeveridge | google it? |
| 04:30:20 | ipodvideo5g | i am using version 3.2-090323 |
| 04:30:25 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, it sounds like it's still mounted or something. |
| 04:30:36 | krazykit` | ipodvideo5g, then you're using apple's firmware for usb, which rockbox doesn't affec |
| 04:30:40 | krazykit` | affect |
| 04:31:07 | _unjustice_ | when I try to unmount, it says device not mounted, however it shows up when I list mounted devices |
| 04:31:32 | krazykit` | so run "sync", wait, and just unplug it |
| 04:31:46 | ipodvideo5g | krazykit, i dont understand your response |
| 04:32:23 | krazykit` | ipodvideo5g, if you're using the 3.2 release, when you're in a usb transfer mode, you're not running any rockbox code |
| 04:32:23 | _unjustice_ | oh....it was sdb2 |
| 04:33:45 | ipodvideo5g | ok so what should i do? |
| 04:34:14 | andrewbeveridge | have a look in device manager? |
| 04:34:14 | andrewbeveridge | see if it is listed |
| 04:34:38 | andrewbeveridge | if it isn't, and other USB devices work fine, then there is something faulty with your iPod, I would guess. |
| 04:34:52 | _unjustice_ | es |
| 04:35:36 | ipodvideo5g | no it doesnt list at all..i have tried it on both my laptop and my desktop and it reboots when i connect the usb then shows the do not disconnect...then immediately ok to disconnect |
| 04:36:13 | andrewbeveridge | well, that it nothing to do with rockbox. try it in safe mode or whatever its called with iPods |
| 04:36:27 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
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| 04:37:08 | andrewbeveridge | i think you have to hold down two of the buttons on the ipod while you switch it on, or plug it in, or something |
| 04:38:35 | ipodvideo5g | yes thats what i have always doen but when i do that it freezes in ok to disconnect |
| 04:38:49 | ipodvideo5g | its the select and play |
| 04:39:18 | ipodvideo5g | before this it didnt require the 2dle button hold |
| 04:39:34 | ipodvideo5g | *double button button hold |
| 04:41:00 | andrewbeveridge | does the ipod work fine otherwise? try plugging it into a linux system and check if dmesg reports anything |
| 04:41:55 | ipodvideo5g | yes the ipod works fine |
| 04:41:59 | _unjustice_ | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore....so I followed these instructions all the way through and I cannot get my ipod to start it only gets to a folder with an exclamation point, I still want to install rockbox, is this a sign that the ipod is broken? |
| 04:42:23 | ipodvideo5g | what is the everything.md5sum file for can i delete it |
| 04:44:21 | krazykit` | it's what happened when you ran the md5sum plugin. |
| 04:44:30 | krazykit` | you can safely delete it |
| 04:49:29 | ipodvideo5g | i dont understand how... i have googled like crazy and found that many have gone thru this yet no one has posted how to fix it |
| 04:50:28 | _unjustice_ | does anyone know how to get vfat onto the ipod in linux, so that I can install rockbox? |
| 04:50:44 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, yes, you follow the wiki page you linked. that's the method. |
| 04:51:25 | _unjustice_ | okay, but it doesn't work |
| 04:51:47 | _unjustice_ | the ipod works with hfs+, which means it probably isn't hardware |
| 04:52:21 | _unjustice_ | krazykit`: every command on that page works fine, but the ipod still does not start up |
| 04:52:26 | krazykit` | that suggests that you're doing something wrong |
| 04:52:56 | _unjustice_ | I am copying and pasting the instructions\ |
| 04:53:02 | _unjustice_ | into terminal |
| 04:53:16 | andrewbeveridge | unjustice: would you be willing to run a vnc server so i can do it for you? |
| 04:54:02 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, you're substituting the proper filenames and device names in the commands, right? |
| 04:54:10 | _unjustice_ | yes |
| 04:54:17 | _unjustice_ | sdb and 4.3.1.1 |
| 04:54:49 | andrewbeveridge | unjustice: is that a yes or a no? |
| 04:57:22 | _unjustice_ | andrewbeveridge: I would prefer to understand it first hand\ |
| 04:59:01 | andrewbeveridge | ok, well you would if you saw me do it. i think too many people have tried and failed to explain what to do. and if there is something unusual going on which is causing the instructions to fail, it would be a lot easier to figure out if I could *see* what was happening |
| 04:59:16 | _unjustice_ | you want pastebin? |
| 04:59:27 | andrewbeveridge | of...? |
| 04:59:53 | _unjustice_ | exactly. |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:04 | andrewbeveridge | what are you on about? |
| 05:00:27 | _unjustice_ | none of the commands give errors, so I am not sure what is going on. I tried this manual restore page, and I cannot get vfat onto the ipod |
| 05:00:36 | _unjustice_ | the partition table worked fine |
| 05:01:11 | _unjustice_ | sdb, sdb1, sdb2 are all there...but I cannot seem to get the ipod to start up |
| 05:01:27 | andrewbeveridge | right, ok, so from this point as far as i'm concerned the only way i can help you is if i can access the terminal |
| 05:01:38 | | Quit miepchen^schla (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) |
| 05:01:38 | _unjustice_ | what would you do? |
| 05:03:29 | andrewbeveridge | first i would ask you to unplug and re-plug in the ipod. then i would do "dmesg | tail", process the output to see if anything unusual was happening. if not, i would then do a 'dd if="/dev/zero" of="/dev/whatever" bs=512 count=1'. then i would start fdisk and make some partitions. |
| 05:04:17 | _unjustice_ | that is funny |
| 05:04:24 | _unjustice_ | I tried each of those in that order |
| 05:05:00 | andrewbeveridge | ..... |
| 05:05:27 | andrewbeveridge | well, if it is funny, and you are unwilling to let me try and help you by accessing the terminal myself, there is no point me being here |
| 05:06:25 | _unjustice_ | basically, I do not see how granting you access to my terminal will help me, if you plan on doing things that I have already attempted |
| 05:07:09 | _unjustice_ | that, and I am not sure I can trust that you have my best interests in mind, as was suggested to me earlier by someone in this room |
| 05:07:32 | andrewbeveridge | clearly, if you had done the above and succeeded, you would have what you wanted right now. so the fact that you are still here means something must have gone wrong. i have no way of knowing what exactly went wrong unless i can see the commands, and outputs, myself. |
| 05:07:59 | _unjustice_ | but you can see them without terminal access |
| 05:08:22 | andrewbeveridge | you want to copy and paste outputs from commands into pastebin for me to read? it would be so much easier for you to run a vnc client. |
| 05:09:44 | _unjustice_ | I would rather do it myself because if someone else fixes my problem then I learn very little about the nature of the error and how to fix it |
| 05:10:01 | _unjustice_ | *poof* it works |
| 05:10:20 | | Quit HellDragon (Connection timed out) |
| 05:10:35 | andrewbeveridge | uh, have you learned anything in the past hour or two? many very intelligent people have tried to help you. you would see anything i did, and i would happily explain anything |
| 05:10:58 | andrewbeveridge | ..... |
| 05:11:01 | andrewbeveridge | ? |
| 05:11:03 | _unjustice_ | everyone directed me to the link |
| 05:11:06 | _unjustice_ | it was helpful |
| 05:11:22 | _unjustice_ | however, I am left with the same problem I entered with, an ipod with partitions but no vfat |
| 05:11:27 | andrewbeveridge | ok... so what are you saying? you have got it working now? |
| 05:11:44 | andrewbeveridge | well, what did you create the partitions with? |
| 05:11:51 | _unjustice_ | originally? |
| 05:11:52 | _unjustice_ | fdisk |
| 05:11:56 | _unjustice_ | then, hdparm |
| 05:12:00 | andrewbeveridge | i mean right now |
| 05:12:06 | _unjustice_ | hdparm |
| 05:12:18 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, you didn't dd the partition table over? |
| 05:13:14 | _unjustice_ | krazykit`: if that is on the link, then yes... |
| 05:13:16 | krazykit` | that wiki page doesn't mention fdisk at all |
| 05:13:20 | _unjustice_ | I kow |
| 05:13:24 | _unjustice_ | *I know that |
| 05:13:58 | andrewbeveridge | what is your aim? i must have missed your initial request. i thought it was simply to partition an ipod |
| 05:15:41 | | Quit efyx_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 05:15:48 | _unjustice_ | I was partitioning with fdisk, I wanted to know the sector size, I was redirected to the wikipage, which had an alternative method for partitioning. fine. I used the mbr-mini2g-4g to partition and I get 3 (sdb, 1 and 2) |
| 05:16:01 | _unjustice_ | BUT, I cannot get vfat onto the ipod |
| 05:16:18 | _unjustice_ | which is necessary for rockbox installation |
| 05:17:18 | andrewbeveridge | hello? |
| 05:17:20 | krazykit` | so you dd'd the firmware over as per the instructions, making absolutely sure you have the right firmware file? |
| 05:17:47 | andrewbeveridge | look, fdisk cannot create filesystems. use parted for that. |
| 05:18:08 | krazykit` | andrewbeveridge, have you even read what he's said? you're entirely off base here. |
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| 05:18:39 | | Part taylor_ ("Leaving") |
| 05:18:46 | andrewbeveridge | krazykit`: clearly, the instructions haven't worked for him. i thought he was simply trying to create a vfat filesystem on a partition on an ipod |
| 05:19:34 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, can you please paste your exact dd command for copying the firmware? |
| 05:20:11 | ipodvideo5g | have updated my itunes thinking that maybe somwhow the drivers would help me enter diskmode...but nope no cigar |
| 05:20:50 | andrewbeveridge | krazykit`: his initial message was "I am trying to format my 4G ipod mini with two partitions, but I am not sure how big to make them". how was i off base? |
| 05:21:16 | krazykit` | andrewbeveridge, it sounds like confusion over how to turn a macpod into a winpod at this point. |
| 05:21:56 | andrewbeveridge | krazykit`: would a dd if=zero then fdisk + parted not solve that? |
| 05:22:04 | _unjustice_ | sudo dd if=Firmware-4.3.1.1 of=/dev/sdb1 |
| 05:22:05 | _unjustice_ | 8999+0 records in |
| 05:22:05 | _unjustice_ | 8999+0 records out |
| 05:22:05 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK _unjustice_ |
| 05:22:05 | _unjustice_ | 4607488 bytes (4.6 MB) copied, 5.78446 s, 797 kB/s |
| 05:22:10 | _unjustice_ | sorry I didn't pastebin |
| 05:22:12 | krazykit` | andrewbeveridge, not if _unjustice_ wants to install rockbox. |
| 05:23:20 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, you downloaded the wrong firmware file. that looks like the "4g iPod", rather than the "mini 2g" |
| 05:23:20 | andrewbeveridge | krazykit`: uh... why? surely then he would just follow the usual instructions for installing rockbox on it? what am i missing? |
| 05:23:55 | krazykit` | andrewbeveridge, you're missing the fact that the device currently doesn't work? |
| 05:24:48 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, on the firmware download page, look in the dropdown box for "Mini 2g (7/1.4.1)", since you said you have a 2nd gen ipod mini |
| 05:25:07 | andrewbeveridge | krazykit`: ugh. i'm confused. i shall drop it as i am cluttering up this channel |
| 05:25:29 | ipodvideo5g | andrew: could you help me |
| 05:26:21 | ipodvideo5g | i am still unable to connect to my ipod |
| 05:26:51 | _unjustice_ | krazykit`: okay, I already did that |
| 05:27:30 | andrewbeveridge | ipodvideo5g: please? =P sure. though it isn't rockbox related so we should switch to #rockbox-community. if device manager isn't recognizing your ipod at all, no matter what buttons you press or hold or whatever, then all i can recommend is plugging it into a computer running linux and telling me what dmesg says. |
| 05:27:53 | ipodvideo5g | ok how do i switch |
| 05:27:58 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, now, once you dd the correct firmware over (this new one), you should be able to follow the rest of the instructions successfully |
| 05:28:18 | andrewbeveridge | ipodvideo5g: well, you joined this channel ok ;-) (this is #rockbox ) |
| 05:28:30 | _unjustice_ | can you send me a link? I am selecting the same firmware |
| 05:28:36 | _unjustice_ | it is just replacing the old file |
| 05:28:37 | andrewbeveridge | ipodvideo5g: type /join #rockbox-community |
| 05:29:25 | krazykit` | _unjustice_, http://appldnld.apple.com.edgesuite.net/content.info.apple.com/iPod/SBML/osx/bundles/061-2690.20060912.PdMin/iPod_7.1.4.1.ipsw |
| 05:29:44 | ipodvideo5g | ok here i go |
| 05:29:50 | ipodvideo5g | /join #rockbox-community |
| 05:29:55 | ipodvideo5g | lol |
| 05:30:14 | krazykit` | ipodvideo5g, without the space at the beginning of the line. |
| 05:30:18 | andrewbeveridge | ... no spaces |
| 05:30:18 | andrewbeveridge | i mean at the beginning |
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| 05:45:17 | andrewbeveridge | how does the rockbox database read meta info from tracks managed by iTunes? |
| 05:45:34 | krazykit` | by id3 tags and whatever metadata aac files use |
| 05:45:57 | Unhelpful | there are mp4 atoms for metadata |
| 05:46:18 | andrewbeveridge | does iTunes store tags in the actual files then? |
| 05:46:33 | andrewbeveridge | i thought it stored them in its own database |
| 05:46:52 | andrewbeveridge | i've never actually used it, just seen friends and clients ipods. |
| 05:46:57 | Unhelpful | iTunes has a database, but i'm pretty sure tracks from iTunes should already have proper metadata. tracks from elswhere, that becomes your problem. |
| 05:48:45 | andrewbeveridge | ah, ok. i assumed if it had a database of its own on the iPod, and it moves all tracks to funky locations and filenames, then it would wipe the tags in the files. |
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| 05:50:19 | andrewbeveridge | ok, second question. if i got hold of an ipod, plugged it into a linux box, zeroed the whole thing with dd, then created a single partition + vfat filesystem with parted, would it work? |
| 05:50:30 | Unhelpful | why do that? it's complicated, and the space savings would be miniscule, and actually almost zero in terms of actual filesystem space saved (since files are allocated in whole block) |
| 05:50:42 | Unhelpful | ...i wouldn't do that if i were you. |
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| 05:53:37 | andrewbeveridge | Unhelpful: huh? who mentioned space saving? I was just clarifying that what i was trying to get _unjustice_ to do was correct. Am I right in saying that would work for any iPod, no matter what setup was on it before? |
| 05:54:15 | safetydan | How does dbestfit compare to dlmalloc.c that's part of the LUA plugin? |
| 05:55:36 | krazykit` | andrewbeveridge, no, you're not right. the ipod would not function as a music player and likely would reboot into emergency disk mode |
| 05:55:44 | Unhelpful | andrewbeveridge: "i assumed if it had a database of its own on the iPod, and it moves all tracks to funky locations and filenames, then it would wipe the tags in the files" <- and i was pointing out that no purpose could be served by this |
| 05:57:21 | andrewbeveridge | ok |
| 06:00 |
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| 06:47:54 | ipodvideo5g2 | ok its there |
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| 08:24:22 | CIA-38 | New commit by peter (r21049): Patch from Wincent Balin: Remove some duplicate code from the PDa plugin |
| 08:26:40 | CIA-38 | New commit by peter (r21050): Patch by Wincent Balin of PDa plugin: update readme and disable shared libraries |
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| 09:55:16 | CIA-38 | New commit by unhelpful (r21051): Load PictureFlow logo from disk, discarding it after splash screen is done and freeing the used space for the slide cache. |
| 10:00 |
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| 10:01:58 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 10:01:58 | * | amiconn was thinking about adding the overlay loader capability (actually just handling a non-standard load address) to the core plugin loader |
| 10:02:49 | amiconn | This would allow to get rid of the separate overlay loader plugins, and make better use of available ram for "jumbo plugins" (they won't be "overlays" anymore) |
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| 10:08:11 | amiconn | Those plugins would no longer need to be loaded before the standard plugin buffer, but they could overlap that buffer |
| 10:09:24 | FlynDice_ | what's the best way to pass an argument to a short assembly routine in a .c file? |
| 10:09:59 | amiconn | It would also allow to ask the user whether he wants to stop playback (localised and with voice support) when such a plugin is about to be loaded |
| 10:10:27 | amiconn | (Voice will only work on swcodec, obviously) |
| 10:11:20 | Unhelpful | i've summed up >8KB so fare of stuff i'm fairly sure is not needed during cache build :) |
| 10:12:32 | Unhelpful | ... plus the ~4.5KB stack for the PF loader thread |
| 10:14:30 | Unhelpful | i like the chaining idea. it might even be of value on non-tiny-buffer targets, like the color targets with huge screens (and huge cache items) |
| 10:17:25 | amiconn | The jumbo plugin idea would also save a bit of diskspace (less files - saves 1 cluster per .ovl), and reduce confusion for developers (no duplicate plugin names in apps/plugins/) |
| 10:18:13 | Unhelpful | where are these buffers laid out? is the audio buffer immediately before the plugin buffer? |
| 10:18:20 | amiconn | yes |
| 10:19:08 | amiconn | Chaining might be useful for PF, but the jumbo plugin idea is independent of that (there is more than just PF) |
| 10:19:43 | Unhelpful | right, the other plugins that use overlays on devices with smaller memory, for example. |
| 10:20:00 | amiconn | It could even be automated in the build system, meaning that making a jumbo plugin wouldn't need special care anymore |
| 10:20:05 | Unhelpful | what about the idea of moving the boundary between audio and plugin buffers? |
| 10:21:12 | Unhelpful | in particular, that might be *very* nice if we also add the ability to unbuffer the last track and compact the audio buffer, since jumbo plugins could load without forcing a stop |
| 10:21:30 | | Quit FlynDice (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:21:55 | amiconn | Actually, if plugins are linked in a way that their *end* aligns to a certain bound (that's how overlay linking works now), the plugin buffer size could even be a user setting |
| 10:22:15 | amiconn | I.e. the user would decide how much ram to set aside for plugins to run in parallel with playback |
| 10:23:05 | Unhelpful | but, if we make the audio/plugin division something that can change dynamically, that gets even better - there is no space reserved when a plugin is not running, for example. :) |
| 10:23:26 | amiconn | Unhelpful: The buffering mechanism doesn't allow this atm, also, there are two different implementations to take into account (hwcodec and swcodec)... |
| 10:24:21 | Unhelpful | how hard would it be to add such a capability? or, we could force stop/restart to move the buffer end, as we already do on AA size change... |
| 10:24:57 | amiconn | Currently mpeg.c has no mechanism to change buffer allocation once it's initialised |
| 10:25:38 | * | amiconn likes that idea though |
| 10:25:53 | amiconn | Exactly zero plugin buffer when no plugin is running... |
| 10:26:43 | * | Unhelpful would think that the extra code to do the added management work couldn't possibly cost more than 32KiB ;) |
| 10:27:19 | amiconn | No, but it will increase the binsize. There are some limits related to that... |
| 10:28:50 | | Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 10:29:00 | amiconn | (1) The OF loader will only load .mod/.ajz up to a certain size: 200KB on Player and Recorder v1, 400KB on the others. Not all devices are flashable, especially Player and Recorder v1. |
| 10:29:35 | Unhelpful | well, *all* of buflib, including the compactor, and the new buffer_in/out functions, comes to 1.2KiB on ARM. less than 800B on SH-1. i can't imagine adding compaction to our existing buffer implementations would approach even that much. |
| 10:30:27 | amiconn | We have a workaround for that which pushes the limit a bit, and is already in use for recv1: When the binary exceeds 200KB, it will be .ucl compressed (which is done anyway for flashing) and prepended with a small self-extractor |
| 10:31:41 | amiconn | (2) For flashing, the binary needs to fit in the flash ROM. Flash ROM is 256KB; 28KB are taken by the flash loader and bootbox (the rescue firmware in case main rb fails) - that leaves 228KB |
| 10:33:17 | amiconn | This is what ucl compressed rockbox must not exceed. If rockbox fits uncompressed, it can be run directly from flash rom ("rombox"), leaving ~200KB additional ram for buffering |
| 10:33:43 | amiconn | Currently this is only possible for Player and Ondio SP - all others have grown too large |
| 10:35:54 | Unhelpful | so, our major concerns would be 1) making core too large to fit compressed any more 2) making core too large to fit uncompressed on Player and Ondio SP. |
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| 10:40:13 | Unhelpful | also, on multicore targets, making sure that compaction doesn't introduce concurrency issues. remember, jhmikes and i talked a bit about this when i was writing buflib, and the conclusion we came to was pretty much that each core could run its own buflib allocator for non-shared data, and that shared data would have to be allocated from a common buffer and kept at static addresses. |
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| 11:00:20 | Unhelpful | amiconn: as i understand it, the sh-1 cmp/pz instruction amounts to "true if signed value is non-negative", correct? i think i've got the final version of mul_s16_u32. the math tests out in C: http://pastie.org/487184 |
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| 11:16:39 | * | Unhelpful just realized he can make that branchless... |
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| 11:25:52 | Unhelpful | since op16_hi is 0xffff in the case where we'd need to subtract op32_lo, we can AND the word-swapped op32 with A, SHLR16 the result, and subtract that from the hi part of the final result. |
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| 11:51:26 | Unhelpful | this seems good, i think... http://pastie.org/487214 |
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| 12:53:56 | kugel | Unhelpful: hmm, mul_s16_u32 returns an unsigned value? |
| 12:54:09 | kugel | Can't the result be negativeß |
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| 14:41:49 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21052): Fix #ifdef nesting to allow USB_HID to be built without USB_CHARGING_ONLY (FS #10236 by Tomer Shalev) |
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| 14:58:05 | BdN3504 | I'm using the VMWare Development platform and been recently getting the error "this client is too old to work with working copy of [...]manual, pleae update your svn client" but i always check out to the newest svn version using the svn trunk rockbox command. what can i do? |
| 14:59:28 | gevaerts | do you use svn both in the VM and from windows on the same checkout? |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:05:55 | BdN3504 | errm? i use the vm with the terminal provided in the image. i recently installed tourtoisesvn but i don't use it. |
| 15:06:52 | gevaerts | that error means that you checked out with a newer version of svn than the one you're using now |
| 15:07:26 | Unhelpful | kugel: it can indeed be negative. it hardly matters, adding a "positive" value with the sign bit set has the same result as adding a negative. the functions that call it store the value as unsigned, too. |
| 15:09:27 | BdN3504 | will removeing the whole folder and checking out again resolve the issue? |
| 15:09:52 | gevaerts | it should, yes |
| 15:09:57 | BdN3504 | lemme try |
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| 15:20:37 | BdN3504 | thanks, it worked. |
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| 15:32:43 | kugel | Unhelpful: still, it seems weird to me |
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| 16:00 |
| 16:05:36 | gevaerts | Does a recent svn beast bootloader work for anyone? |
| 16:08:48 | | Quit __lifeless (Remote closed the connection) |
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| 16:13:34 | moos | gevaerts: hi, not here either |
| 16:13:58 | gevaerts | Thanks. That means I can commit my new code without fear that it's all my fault :) |
| 16:14:15 | moos | haha :D |
| 16:16:08 | moos | I wanted to put a rb only bootloader, but I fair to have the 120GB drive formated... |
| 16:16:37 | gevaerts | I've had it reformatted twice during the last half hour :) |
| 16:18:58 | kugel | low capacity flash daps ftw :> |
| 16:19:31 | moos | hehe, I also encountered lot of *random* problems in the past with the beast installation, /me blames MS here. Invasive OF. :) |
| 16:20:11 | kugel | well, you can only fail if you expect to tame the beast easily |
| 16:20:44 | * | gevaerts now is stuck at File not found |
| 16:20:59 | moos | gevaerts: Invasive even at boot when runing dual one. Once you tasted single boot, it's hard to come back to this OF silyness |
| 16:21:09 | moos | gevaerts: the famous one :( |
| 16:22:15 | moos | gevaerts: does the 2nd partition is empty? |
| 16:22:26 | gevaerts | Apart from .rockbox, yes |
| 16:23:09 | moos | Because here, I found that at each time that the 2nd partition have missing some OF files/dirs, 100% of cases I had the file not found |
| 16:23:50 | AlexP | First thing I did was delete all the OF rubbish |
| 16:24:02 | gevaerts | ah yes. IIRC i goes away by booting the OF once |
| 16:24:03 | AlexP | Never had a problem with file not found with either single or dual boot |
| 16:25:22 | moos | AlexP: hi, I spoke about the files that the OF generated after installation |
| 16:25:54 | AlexP | moos: I know, and first time I had access to the filesystem I deleted them |
| 16:26:05 | moos | each time I encoutered this "file not found" bug, I noticed that the 2nd partition was empty |
| 16:26:17 | moos | ok after then :) |
| 16:26:36 | moos | note that I'm a windows user ;) |
| 16:27:01 | AlexP | I'm just saying that it is odd though that these problems seems so hard to pin down |
| 16:27:28 | gevaerts | it's now helpfully removing all media items again |
| 16:27:30 | moos | indeed, and seems "random" :( |
| 16:27:45 | moos | :( |
| 16:28:14 | moos | silly OF, I wish we could completly get rid of it |
| 16:30:23 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21053): Reorganise USB stack defines. Now config.h decides which class drivers get enabled instead of usb_core.h ... |
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| 16:34:13 | moos | gevaerts: note that to workaround this "File not found bug", I found that even if the partitions seems empty in Windows explorer, in the basket, there was the 3 .inf files needed for the windows installation. Then I restored them, and rockbox was working again here. |
| 16:35:02 | moos | http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090428#23:40:20 |
| 16:35:15 | gevaerts | moos: I've solved it every time by just booting the OF once. I don't know what it does |
| 16:35:43 | moos | can you compare the 2nd partitions in the 2 cases? |
| 16:36:05 | moos | i.e once refuse to boot rb and once yes |
| 16:37:14 | | Quit {-phoenix-} (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:37:52 | moos | MarcGay had problems recently too IIRC |
| 16:38:03 | moos | oops MarcGuay even |
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| 16:40:16 | moos | One mystery yet for me is: When the OF decide to format or not. Since sometimes it did and other times not. |
| 16:42:57 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21054): Add HID keymap handling in usb screen. This allows to use the DAP as a keypad to control the PC. The current keymaps are audio-oriented ... |
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| 16:47:54 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 16:50:32 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21055): Clarify comment and clean up a bit (FS #10227 by Tomer Shalev) |
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| 16:57:53 | gevaerts | tomers: is there still anything in FS #10166 or FS #10110 that really needs to be applied, or should I close them? |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:24 | tomers | gevaerts: I'm working on it. You did a great job :-) The code is neatier, more readable. I wanted to make similar change myself but didn't want to get into that #ifdef hell, and also I felt I didn't see the full picture yet. |
| 17:02:22 | * | gevaerts spots red :( |
| 17:02:55 | | Quit robin0800_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:05:03 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21056): Fix wrong #ifdefs that sneaked in |
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| 17:06:53 | tomers | gevaerts: FS #10227 can be closed |
| 17:07:27 | tomers | Oh, it is! |
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| 17:09:56 | tomers | gevaerts: AFAIC, You can close both FS #10166 and FS #10110 |
| 17:10:13 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21057): Fix wrong #ifdefs |
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| 17:10:17 | gevaerts | ok |
| 17:11:21 | gevaerts | Also, your comment about #ifdef hell was spot on. It caught me twice apparently :) |
| 17:13:36 | Mikachu | i just installed 21055 on my nano, but dmesg still says it only finds ums, i think |
| 17:13:40 | Mikachu | should it work? :) |
| 17:14:33 | tomers | gevaerts: Can you replace #ifndef BOOTLOADER ... #else .. #endif with #ifdef XXX #else #endif? It is a source of problems, as confusing ifndef with ifdef is very common and hard to spot |
| 17:16:31 | gevaerts | Mikachu: does "lsusb -v -d 05ac:" mention hid? |
| 17:17:04 | kugel | tomers: nice work, how can I play with it? |
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| 17:17:19 | Mikachu | gevaerts: http://rb.pastebin.com/d30aa780d |
| 17:17:36 | Mikachu | it does look like it, but should it really say mouse? |
| 17:18:22 | tomers | Mikachu: It should work: #define CONFIG_USBOTG USBOTG_ARC |
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| 17:19:11 | tomers | kugel: Thanks! Just plug it in, and use the keys to control volume and playback. What player do you use? |
| 17:19:14 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 17:19:14 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21058): swap bootloader and non-bootloader cases around to avoid an ugly #ifndef |
| 17:19:29 | kugel | tomers: e200 |
| 17:20:20 | * | kugel doesn't quite get how to use simplelist correctly :( |
| 17:21:16 | tomers | kugel: I develop on e200v1, so I am sure it works. Just to verify: Did you restarted the player? What OS do you use? |
| 17:21:19 | Mikachu | should i insert it holding menu so it doesn't go to the disk screen? |
| 17:21:31 | kugel | tomers: I haven't done anything yet :) |
| 17:22:01 | kugel | I'm right now booting my pc with windows 7, in the hope to control media monkey with my e200 |
| 17:22:08 | tomers | Mikachu: It work when the USB plug is shown on the screen, and the DAP can be accessed by the OS as a mass-storage device |
| 17:22:18 | Mikachu | okay |
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| 17:22:48 | Mikachu | [2429506.090229] usb-storage: probe of 1-2.3:1.1 failed with error -5 |
| 17:22:48 | Mikachu | [2429506.090707] usb 1-2.3: device_add(1-2.3:1.1) −−> -5 |
| 17:22:50 | Mikachu | is that related? |
| 17:22:51 | gevaerts | Mikachu: if you don't have anything set up to handle these "multimedia" keys, you can use xev to look at incoming raw events |
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| 17:23:15 | Mikachu | gevaerts: it should create a node in /dev/input first ;) |
| 17:23:24 | tomers | kugel: I can control volume on Windows XP, no matter what window is in focus. Foobar2000 also changes tracks and playback mode even when it is in the background, so it is quite cool to be able to control music while working with other applications in foreground |
| 17:23:41 | kugel | tomers: yea, that's how I'd expect it to work |
| 17:23:50 | kugel | that's what my keyboard is doing too |
| 17:24:00 | * | Mikachu uses win-alt-zxcvb to control his music player |
| 17:24:27 | kugel | and honestly, I don't think I'm going to replace my multimedia keyboard with my e200, but it's already incredible cool that I could do it :P |
| 17:24:55 | Mikachu | my previous rockbox build is from 2007 :P |
| 17:25:13 | gevaerts | This will mainly be important once we get host support on some players, so you can use one rockbox player as a remote for another :) |
| 17:25:24 | Mikachu | lol |
| 17:25:44 | tomers | kugel: Some people would find it nice to use their DAP as a wired alternative to Logitech's PowerPoint presenter, when it will be possible to have different sets of keymaps ;-) |
| 17:26:52 | | Quit daurnimator (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) |
| 17:27:42 | kugel | that will for sure be very useful |
| 17:27:50 | gevaerts | tomers: can you have a look at the remaining build errors on http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi ? |
| 17:28:12 | tomers | gevaerts: Looking... |
| 17:29:15 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
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| 17:30:21 | tomers | gevaerts: I'll fix it and post a patch now. I tested all platforms using the dist tools - compiled it over night. That's weird. These tools halt on error. |
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| 17:41:11 | gevaerts | tomers: when you're working out how to build usb class drivers as plugins, try to make it possible to have some specific ones built-in. I'm mainly thinking about bootloader use here |
| 17:41:36 | tomers | gevaerts: Posting patch to fix red... |
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| 17:44:43 | kugel | tomers: \o/ very cool! and impressive |
| 17:45:19 | kugel | gevaerts: ", and eliminates the need for a custom class for charging-only connections. " is too technical for MajorChanges IMO :) |
| 17:45:35 | gevaerts | kugel: feel free to fix it :) |
| 17:45:49 | gevaerts | "Windows will now no longer ask for a driver"? |
| 17:46:01 | AlexP | "Charging on Windows now works" :) |
| 17:46:28 | gevaerts | AlexP: careful there. There are other issues as well |
| 17:46:48 | tomers | kugel: Thanks!!! ;-) |
| 17:48:14 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21059): fix some keymaps to actually compile (FS #10237, by Tomer Shalev) |
| 17:48:48 | gevaerts | uhm, those deltas look very wrong... |
| 17:49:39 | kugel | hm, windows asked for a driver, but found one itself |
| 17:49:51 | AlexP | gevaerts: OK, allow charging on windows to work "at all" |
| 17:49:54 | AlexP | :) |
| 17:50:27 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21060): don't disable usb storage by accident |
| 17:50:52 | kugel | I guess my change isn't quite complete then |
| 17:50:53 | gevaerts | Anyway, we now know the exact binsize cost of usb storage :) |
| 17:51:30 | gevaerts | kugel: it worked all by itself in xp for me |
| 17:51:34 | kugel | the mobe is still red |
| 17:51:53 | kugel | gevaerts: yes, but didn't you get the pop up about installing a driver? |
| 17:52:01 | gevaerts | no |
| 17:52:41 | tomers | kugel: The driver installed by Windows is the HID driver. It is the same driver that would be loaded if you attach a USB Multimedia Keyboard |
| 17:52:42 | kugel | it didn't ask me for a driver, but it installed one (installing device driver..[some seconds]..the device is now ready to use) |
| 17:53:13 | tomers | kugel: I'm testing the mrobe |
| 17:54:01 | tomers | kugel: Mrobe 500 or 100? |
| 17:54:06 | kugel | 100 |
| 17:54:14 | * | gevaerts finds out that testing mr500 builds to see if mr100 works correctly is not entirely the right way |
| 17:55:07 | kugel | so, now we just need to be able to open the virtual keyboard and type texts using the dap |
| 17:55:37 | AlexP | kugel: masochist |
| 17:55:46 | kugel | :p |
| 17:55:55 | gevaerts | kugel: I think you just need a single extra pluginlib export to be able to make a plugin that does that :) |
| 17:56:48 | kugel | also, I want to open firefox with the rec button :D |
| 17:56:59 | * | kugel demands too much :( |
| 17:57:09 | Mikachu | you want to scroll web pages with the wheel too? |
| 17:58:59 | * | domonoky wants full configurability for this, so you can set which key sends which keycode :-) |
| 17:59:52 | AlexP | This is quite weird, selecting volume up and down on the player and seeing the volume bar changing on my laptop :) |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:17 | gevaerts | well, once it's in a plugin, full configurability shouldn't be a big problem :) |
| 18:03:44 | kugel | gevaerts: so what's now in the core won't be there for long? |
| 18:04:40 | gevaerts | kugel: I don't know. This "usb as plugins" thing isn't actually designed yet |
| 18:06:34 | tomers | How do you set your IRc status (i.e. 'tomers is fixing red')? Using chatzilla |
| 18:06:50 | * | AlexP does stuff |
| 18:06:53 | AlexP | Like that? |
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| 18:07:19 | AlexP | If so, it isn't a status - just use "/me" |
| 18:07:48 | gevaerts | kugel: using the current in-core HID, you'd only need to add usb_hid_send_consumer_usage() to the plugin API to have custom keymap plugins |
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| 18:10:22 | tomers | gevaerts: Posting yet another patch to fix red |
| 18:10:40 | * | tomers learning to set status |
| 18:10:42 | tomers | nice! |
| 18:11:07 | Horscht | it's not a "status" |
| 18:11:12 | Horscht | it's an action |
| 18:11:23 | CIA-38 | New commit by lenzone10 (r21061): Updated italian language file. |
| 18:11:37 | Horscht | something like... twittering |
| 18:13:05 | CIA-38 | New commit by gevaerts (r21062): fix another keymap (FS #10237 by Tomer Shalev) |
| 18:14:57 | tomers | A noobs question: The mass storage takes ~5K... When USB classes will be implemented as plugins, and the DAP detached from USB, this space will be spared. What benefit we would get from it? |
| 18:17:54 | gevaerts | From that 5K, not really much. It's not the entire picture though, there's also a bit in screens.c (the USB connect screen). As I see it, the real benefit is that it's a lot easier to add class drivers, and to make them more interesting. Some of those "other ideas" on your wiki page aren't really doable in core |
| 18:20:59 | tomers | gevaerts: Thanks for this info. I really couldn't understand how it helps from other aspects. I do agree that it will ease classes development. I'll update my Wiki page. Going now... |
| 18:21:15 | gevaerts | the usb logo on the connect screen is more than 16K on ipod video, and it's *only* used for mass storage. That means that with careful cutting, the actual benefit of plugins is nearer 20k |
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| 18:22:13 | gevaerts | and that's the sort of number that does matter |
| 18:23:21 | tomers | gevaerts: Interensting... |
| 18:23:39 | * | gevaerts wonders if it would be possible to build plugins as totally position independent code, so you could load more than one tsr plugin at the same time |
| 18:23:39 | * | tomers Going to walk |
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| 18:28:25 | gevaerts | Also, if usb storage is a plugin, it either can use the entire plugin buffer and doesn't need the audio buffer anymore, or (if we go for a separate small plugin buffer for usb) it's actually apps/ code so it's allowed to grab the audio buffer :) |
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| 18:40:10 | kugel | hm, now I managed to get a nice simplelist, but it doesn't scroll anymore :( |
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| 18:42:00 | kugel | mcuelenaere: ping |
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| 18:56:30 | kugel | hm, the sansa fuze's framerate only varies with changing the dbop clock when the cpu is boosted :/ |
| 18:58:49 | kugel | that makes sense, actually |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:21:37 | mcuelenaere | kugel: pong |
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| 19:22:11 | kugel | mcuelenaere: I was wondering about the exit() for plugins. What if plugins have to do some cleanup before exiting? |
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| 19:24:55 | mcuelenaere | kugel: hmm yes, they should do that theirselves atm |
| 19:25:03 | mcuelenaere | but there could be some callback function if wanted |
| 19:25:15 | kugel | but that isn't possible when doing exit() atm? |
| 19:25:37 | mcuelenaere | kugel: have you looked at http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/plugins/lib/pluginlib_exit.h?view=markup ? |
| 19:25:38 | mcuelenaere | nope |
| 19:25:56 | kugel | I thought that a) a cleanup() would be called in exit() which is to be provided by the plugin, or b) the plugin loader handles all possible cleanup |
| 19:25:59 | mcuelenaere | you can add a new PLUGINLIB_EXIT_INIT_W_CALLBACK(callback) define though |
| 19:26:21 | mcuelenaere | how could the plugin loader handle all possible cleanup? (e.g. open file handles) |
| 19:26:57 | kugel | hm, right |
| 19:27:15 | * | mcuelenaere thinks adding a PLUGINLIB_EXIT_INIT_W_CALLBACK will be the easiest to do |
| 19:27:16 | kugel | I was more thinking of thinks like reverting to backlight settings if the plugin forced it on and the like |
| 19:27:30 | kugel | sounds reasonable, yes |
| 19:27:36 | mcuelenaere | revertk g |
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| 19:27:58 | mcuelenaere | reverting to the original backlight settings sounds something for the plugin loader indeed |
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| 19:48:13 | AlexP | mcuelenaere: Incidently, is there any differences between lua in the wild and lua in Rockbox? I'm thinking for the manual. It'd be good to be able to say something like "This is lua, see link. The Rockbox implementation is different/doesn't support..." |
| 19:48:32 | mcuelenaere | AlexP: it doesn't support floating point |
| 19:48:39 | AlexP | mcuelenaere: Is that it? |
| 19:48:45 | mcuelenaere | it also doesn't have some of the default lua libs (io, math, ..) |
| 19:49:10 | AlexP | mcuelenaere: Any chance you could note these down for me (or whoever) to do the manual entry with? |
| 19:49:36 | AlexP | at some point :) |
| 19:49:38 | mcuelenaere | AlexP: I'm thinking of picking up my old plugin API documentation work and rewrite to get it working with Lua |
| 19:49:46 | mcuelenaere | AlexP: sure |
| 19:50:09 | mcuelenaere | also, I'm not the one who did the initial Lua porting (safetydan did); so I don't know every little detail about it :) |
| 19:50:19 | AlexP | mcuelenaere: Cheers - it'd be good to get something in the manual, but I don't want to get the technical aspects wrong |
| 19:50:36 | AlexP | mcuelenaere: Well we can always fix, it'd just be good to not have any glaring errors straight off :) |
| 19:51:47 | mcuelenaere | AlexP: perhaps you should just prod me with a TeX patch and then I'll see if there are any mistakes in them or so :) |
| 19:52:13 | AlexP | mcuelenaere: OK :) |
| 19:52:29 | AlexP | Or I'll leave you a section to fill in with the missing details :) |
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| 20:00 |
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| 20:03:06 | AlexP | So, any got any bright ideas on how I translate a check for plugin buffer size into a manual opt? |
| 20:03:12 | AlexP | *anyone |
| 20:05:09 | gevaerts | AlexP: if all else fails, you could add a feature in features.txt with the exact same logic as in SOURCES |
| 20:06:11 | kugel | gevaerts: He hesitates to add something to features.txt just for the manual |
| 20:06:19 | AlexP | I do? |
| 20:06:30 | kugel | didn't you? Someone said that |
| 20:06:40 | kugel | someone said, that this someone hesitates I mean |
| 20:06:45 | AlexP | kugel: It may well be true, but it wasn't me that said it :) |
| 20:07:14 | gevaerts | I'd actually like a feature for each plugin |
| 20:07:19 | kugel | I think there's no reason to not do it, especially as there's some plugin localization work ongoing |
| 20:07:39 | kugel | so those features are quite likely to be used for langs later too |
| 20:07:43 | AlexP | I could just do it with \nopt for those that don't have it, but that isn't very nice as then people have to check it for every new target, and adjust it if a target's support changes |
| 20:07:58 | gevaerts | kugel: well, features are listed in rockbox-info.txt, they aren't pure internal stuff |
| 20:08:33 | kugel | I'd just do #if PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE < 512K;low_plugin_buffer;#endif |
| 20:08:48 | kugel | gevaerts: it still doesn't hurt, does it? |
| 20:09:42 | gevaerts | it doesn't hurt *much*, probably. |
| 20:09:44 | kugel | or a features.txt just for plugins (plugins.txt?). that could then be in a seperate (if at all) section in rockbox-info.txt too |
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| 20:11:18 | * | gevaerts thinks that this needs the opinion of the manual regulars |
| 20:11:51 | * | domonoky reminds everyone to be carefull when messing with rockbox-info.txt, its used by rbutil :-) |
| 20:11:59 | AlexP | I'd prefer an option like that I can check, but I don't know how it affects the rest of Rockbox |
| 20:12:10 | AlexP | domonoky proves my point :) |
| 20:12:15 | domonoky | especially the features, as they are needed for voice generation.. |
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| 20:41:48 | Unhelpful | kugel: if it makes you happier, i can change the type before commit. it's not like it would matter. |
| 20:41:57 | BryanJacobs | somebody really needs to generate a dependency graph of the files in the rockbox tree and rearrange things so that the graph isn't so connected |
| 20:42:30 | BryanJacobs | for example, successfully compiling apps/metadata/wavpack.c requires apps/metadata/mp3.c |
| 20:44:05 | BryanJacobs | and EVERYTHING requires misc.c |
| 20:44:11 | BryanJacobs | and misc.c requires everything |
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| 20:51:21 | gevaerts | BryanJacobs: I once tried. I killed dot when it was using 110GB of memory |
| 20:51:59 | domonoky | :-) the question is, is it worth the effort ? (grep or "search in files" is very helpfull when navigating rockboxs source) :-) |
| 20:52:24 | BryanJacobs | domonoky: yes, if Rockbox were properly modular my life trying to build a minimal set of it would be much easier |
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| 20:53:30 | BryanJacobs | I eventually just took metadata_common.c and stripped out all the stuff I didn't need |
| 20:53:50 | BryanJacobs | all I really needed was the read_uintfoo functions |
| 20:53:55 | kugel | the mp3.c is probably something historical |
| 20:54:27 | BryanJacobs | kugel: graph is metadata/wavpack -> metadata_common -> id3 funcs -> metadata/mp3 |
| 20:54:46 | BryanJacobs | the problem is metadata_common having too much stuff in it |
| 20:55:12 | BryanJacobs | it actually keeps going with mp3 -> codepages + unicode -> misc -> everything |
| 20:55:32 | kugel | well, guess why it's id3 funcs and struct mp3entry. historical reasons. And apparently nobody bothered to clear it up yet |
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| 20:56:19 | kugel | patches are welcome, you know :) |
| 20:56:20 | BryanJacobs | why don't codecs implement their own metadata parser? |
| 20:56:48 | domonoky | BryanJacobs: thats not possible.. at the time metadat is read, the codec isnt loaded. |
| 20:56:53 | kugel | because lots of codecs share the metadata with other codecs |
| 20:56:53 | BryanJacobs | kugel: I'm coding stuff now |
| 20:57:07 | domonoky | and the sharing of course too... |
| 20:57:15 | BryanJacobs | ah, I see |
| 20:57:40 | kugel | also, the metadata reading isn't a codec thing, mostly (IIUC) |
| 20:57:50 | domonoky | metadata code is also the second swicth from file extension to codec (in case two codecs can have the same file ending) |
| 20:58:16 | BryanJacobs | I didn't realize file extensions were one-many mapped to codecs |
| 20:58:31 | BryanJacobs | which extension(s) would that be? |
| 20:58:40 | BryanJacobs | we don't do container formats like AVI, right? |
| 20:58:49 | domonoky | thats a little bit hidden, but metadata can switch the codec type.. |
| 20:58:57 | domonoky | for example .ogg i think |
| 20:59:08 | kugel | we have many codecs. but many codecs share the metadata type (vorbis comment, id3, etc) and many codecs share its container |
| 20:59:25 | BryanJacobs | I didn't know rockbox did ogg-contained flac |
| 20:59:37 | kugel | and AFAIK it doesn't |
| 20:59:48 | BryanJacobs | I think I understand now, though - just having the shared id3 code would be reason enough |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:04 | BryanJacobs | but still, the dependencies are out of hand |
| 21:00:17 | domonoky | we have some shared containers, but i dont know exactly which ones.. |
| 21:00:33 | BryanJacobs | maybe WAV |
| 21:00:40 | BryanJacobs | aiff/raw |
| 21:02:02 | BryanJacobs | why do I get a backtrace like "#0 0x00000000 in ?? ()" when I compiled everything with -ggdb? |
| 21:02:41 | domonoky | .mp4 does it (line 653) |
| 21:03:07 | domonoky | (switches between ALAC and AAC) |
| 21:03:21 | mt | BryanJacobs : Instead of taking functions from rb's source tree, you could write your own functions that "look" like what you'd use from rb's source. (That's how it's done in RM) |
| 21:03:23 | BryanJacobs | oh yeah, I forgot about .m4a |
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| 21:03:55 | BryanJacobs | mt: I was trying to use the code in-place because then it automatically stays in sync |
| 21:04:03 | mt | That's assuming you're trying to get the codec working outside rockbox ? |
| 21:04:08 | BryanJacobs | yes. |
| 21:04:28 | BryanJacobs | I've been pulling things out only when absolutely necessary |
| 21:04:53 | BryanJacobs | but maintenance gets harder when you increase code duplication, right? |
| 21:05:06 | domonoky | BryanJacobs: while its good that you try to clean up the mess, i would suggest to focus on your project... :-) and maybe take a look at the other codec test programs... |
| 21:05:24 | BryanJacobs | domonoky: I'm using the test_codec plugin code |
| 21:05:36 | domonoky | thats probably a good start :-) |
| 21:05:56 | BryanJacobs | and not actually doing cleanup right now... I was just getting annoyed at how the dependencies made it hard to get things working |
| 21:05:57 | mt | BryanJacobs : The RM parser isn't that big so I had no trouble porting it to rockbox . |
| 21:07:35 | BryanJacobs | anyhow, I've got a whole codec testing program compiling but have to fix a segfault |
| 21:08:15 | BryanJacobs | code at http://q3q.us/harness.tar.bz2 for the interested |
| 21:08:32 | BryanJacobs | I'm signing off for today, see you all later |
| 21:09:29 | domonoky | that sounds good.. cu later... :-) |
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| 22:38:39 | andrewbeveridge | Badger: oo, i only just noticed you are online! a little birdie told me you are the man in charge regarding TWiki? I tried to register a couple of days ago, but cannot complete because of a 403 Forbidden error =( |
| 22:40:29 | Bagder | 403 at what point? |
| 22:41:05 | andrewbeveridge | upon clicking the link in the confirmation email: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/register?action=verify;code=AndrewBeveridge.660054076 |
| 22:41:08 | Mikachu | andrewbeveridge: bagder, not badger |
| 22:41:26 | andrewbeveridge | Mikachu: man, i don't take enough time to heed usernames huh |
| 22:41:48 | andrewbeveridge | Mikachu: and i thought i got enough of a lecture from gevaerts ;-) |
| 22:41:53 | Mikachu | :) |
| 22:44:29 | Bagder | andrewbeveridge: and you tried simply doing it again? |
| 22:44:58 | andrewbeveridge | yup |
| 22:45:03 | andrewbeveridge | several times |
| 22:45:09 | andrewbeveridge | before and after the outage |
| 22:45:38 | andrewbeveridge | (in the vague hope it was a temporary (perl? php?) error. |
| 22:45:42 | Mikachu | fwiw i get the 403 with that link too |
| 22:45:51 | Bagder | yeah, me too |
| 22:46:04 | Bagder | it's just weird since we get N people registered fine every day |
| 22:46:09 | andrewbeveridge | huh. |
| 22:46:41 | andrewbeveridge | well, could you maybe cancel my registration so i can try again with the same details? (and i wrote such a thoughtful message too =P) |
| 22:46:52 | Bagder | well I see no traces of it so I can't cancel anything |
| 22:47:06 | andrewbeveridge | ... |
| 22:47:17 | andrewbeveridge | whenever i try to register again it says that username is taken |
| 22:47:31 | andrewbeveridge | thats just annoying. |
| 22:47:31 | Bagder | I see it now |
| 22:47:39 | andrewbeveridge | ah good =) |
| 22:48:15 | andrewbeveridge | anything unusual? are you looking at a database here, or TWiki admin page, or what? (curious) |
| 22:48:57 | | Join spyder [0] (n=spyder@lirhost.net) |
| 22:53:20 | * | andrewbeveridge shall be back (gotta switch batteries) |
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| 23:00 |
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| 23:01:37 | andrewbeveridge | hello again |
| 23:02:45 | andrewbeveridge | anybody know if/where rockboy saves key bindings? |
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| 23:13:18 | andrewbeveridge | Bagder: could you perhaps tell me where i stand now regarding the wiki please? should i try and create a new account using a different name, or same, or what? |
| 23:13:48 | Bagder | I removed the single file I found with your name in it |
| 23:14:00 | Bagder | I know nothing further unfortunately |
| 23:14:27 | andrewbeveridge | ok, thanks. i shall try registering again and report back =) |
| 23:16:29 | | Join archivator [0] (n=archivat@77.70.28.57) |
| 23:19:00 | archivator | Quick question - is there any way a plugin can detect buffer underruns and take measures to reduce its cpu usage? |
| 23:19:56 | saratoga | no |
| 23:20:14 | saratoga | but we have a scheduler, so setting the priority low enough should be good enough to accomplish that I think |
| 23:23:43 | archivator | I'm not sure I follow - the plugin should lower its thread's priority, is that what you're saying? |
| 23:26:06 | saratoga | if you're using so much CPU time that you compete with the codec for CPU time, you can request a lower priority for your thread I believe |
| 23:26:24 | Mikachu | seti@rockbox? |
| 23:27:02 | Unhelpful | is this about the spectrum visualizer? |
| 23:27:15 | archivator | Unhelpful: it is. |
| 23:28:12 | Unhelpful | my suggestion would be to calculate the FFT in a thread that is of lower priority than the various threads doing decode, buffering, and playback, and display it in the main thread, since displaying it doesn't really cost anything. |
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| 23:29:38 | saratoga | how much CPU time does your plugin really need? |
| 23:29:41 | archivator | Unhelpful: There's scaling to do before displaying it but I can see where you're going. I've never worked with threads in rockbox, is the overhead significant? |
| 23:30:19 | saratoga | i've become interested in getting a fast fft into rockbox once again |
| 23:30:48 | Mikachu | heh, fast fft huh? |
| 23:30:53 | archivator | saratoga: hard to say - how would you propose to measure that? I mean, I can only give you updates per second and that's hardly a meaningful number.. |
| 23:31:43 | archivator | Mikachu: there's fft and then there's kiss fft (which I'm regretfully using) :) |
| 23:31:48 | saratoga | I would time the execution of one fft using a timer |
| 23:32:17 | saratoga | or else try to estimate how much time you're spending in teh fft by running your plugin with and without fft and observing the difference in clock speed |
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| 23:34:41 | archivator | saratoga: I can probably get you those numbers in a day or two (I don't have much spare time right now ) .. what are you expecting to see though? KISS FFT is hardly the fastest implementation out there and all the function calls in there must add quite the overhead... |
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| 23:35:54 | saratoga | knowing how much time you're using is helpful for optimization |
| 23:36:12 | saratoga | i guess a better question might be how often you call the fft and of what size |
| 23:36:25 | Mikachu | what about fftw? |
| 23:36:35 | archivator | Right, I thought it had to do with your incentive to add an fft lib in core rockbox.. |
| 23:36:55 | saratoga | i don't think fftw does fixed point |
| 23:37:01 | Mikachu | ah |
| 23:37:11 | andrewbeveridge | Mikachu: seti requires networking ;-) |
| 23:37:23 | archivator | I think much of my troubles will be solved once I figure out a better way to access PCM data and trade speed for precision |
| 23:37:41 | saratoga | the reason to add fft to core would be as part of the codec library's MDCT functions, if in fact a fast fft is faster then alternative ways of computing the imdct |
| 23:38:29 | saratoga | of course that would have the added advantage of making it available to plugins |
| 23:39:27 | archivator | Sure. I don't see any other plugin using that but that's fine.. |
| 23:40:00 | archivator | I'll give the threaded idea a try next week. Have to go now. |
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| 23:41:35 | andrewbeveridge | why is rockbox a rather than a plugin? |
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| 23:42:18 | * | Unhelpful rather doubts imdct-via-fft can beat an optimized imdct |
| 23:42:43 | Unhelpful | especially if the optimized imdct has had the windowing function it uses rolled into the same operation |
| 23:43:17 | * | andrewbeveridge wishes he had more experience and understood more jargon |
| 23:44:57 | saratoga | Unhelpful: on the ffmpeg list people seem to hold the opposite view, and dislike the idea of mixing the two operations |
| 23:45:05 | saratoga | but i've seen people claim both are faster |
| 23:45:35 | saratoga | i emailed the ffmpeg developer behind their new IMDCT to ask him about it |
| 23:47:00 | | Quit merbanan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:47:25 | Unhelpful | saratoga: it probably depends on the windowing function used, but it might be possible to multiply the IMDCT matrix by the windowing function, and then reduce algebraically to produce an optimized imdct+window |
| 23:54:07 | | Part wincent_balin ("Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org") |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).