| 00:00:58 | | Join robin0800 [0] (n=robin080@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust436.brig.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:03:08 | | Quit jordan` (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 00:03:23 | | Join gregzx_ [0] (n=chatzill@dro228.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 00:04:15 | | Join jordan` [0] (i=gromit@78.235.252.137) |
| 00:04:57 | Unhelpful | is there now, or is there likely to be soon, a bigendian armv6 target? :) |
| 00:06:02 | funman | Unhelpful: if you have a armv6 target you can configure it to be big endian |
| 00:07:39 | Unhelpful | funman: i'm on my third version of ARM asm 4-point IDCT. it doesn't pay to load two 16-bit values together on ARMv5, not at this size, anyway, but it looks like that will pay off all the way down to 2-point on ARMv6. as soon as i start loading multiple values into one register, though, i need to be endian-aware - unless it's not going to matter. :) |
| 00:09:01 | amiconn | Just write it for little endian atm. Leave a note that this is LE only, and needs fixing should a BE ARM target be included |
| 00:09:07 | funman | endianess can be configured in the system control coprocessor, so i perhaps if such ports are made we could switch them to little endian |
| 00:09:33 | amiconn | I guess that many ARM asm blocks silently assume LE |
| 00:10:11 | Unhelpful | well, SWAR was too slow on ARMv5. interestingly, the IDCT transpose is faster *in pure C* at 8x8. |
| 00:10:40 | funman | then use gcc -S and optimise that :P |
| 00:10:56 | Unhelpful | i've made it optional, i'll enable it for ARMv6 if it's a benefit on 4x4. |
| 00:11:17 | amiconn | If gcc manages to be faster than hand-coded asm, you're doing something wrong... |
| 00:11:52 | Mikachu | they removed some asm from glibc where gcc did better from the c code |
| 00:14:25 | Unhelpful | amiconn: no. i meant that with the pure C code, i've worked up an option to transpose coefficients during unpack, have the vertical IDCT read in rows from that and output columns to a second buffer, and then the horizontal IDCT reads and writes rows. |
| 00:14:51 | Unhelpful | and that is faster, in C, than essentially the same code without the transposes, in C. |
| 00:14:59 | kugel | should the fixed bugs list in ReleaseNotes33 only contain bugs that appeared in 3.3 or in current builds inbetween too? |
| 00:15:22 | Mikachu | you mean 3.2? |
| 00:15:36 | Bagder | I think it should mention bugs fixed in 3.3 that were present in 3.2 |
| 00:15:40 | Unhelpful | memory locality issues, i would assume, as i doubt that gcc is doing anything terribly clever. |
| 00:15:51 | * | gevaerts still has to document the full USB situation in ReleaseNotes33... |
| 00:16:05 | kugel | yes, 3.2 sorry |
| 00:16:07 | gevaerts | Bagder: what's the exact release planning? |
| 00:16:27 | Bagder | I don't have any exact planning, I play by ear! |
| 00:16:41 | Bagder | but thursday we said before |
| 00:16:43 | Bagder | I think |
| 00:16:45 | kugel | so no bugs that came up between the releases? |
| 00:17:12 | | Join HellDragon [0] (n=jd@modemcable178.248-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 00:17:34 | gevaerts | ok. I wasn't sure if it was wednesday or thursday. |
| 00:17:46 | * | gevaerts actually wasn't even sure what *today* was... |
| 00:17:50 | kugel | I think that would a) make the bug fixed list bigger (which looks nicely :P ) and b) also appropriate since quite a few people use current builds after a few weeks or months (particularly this time due to usb) |
| 00:19:26 | gevaerts | kugel: I think we should try to get to a system where we can expect that people who don't use the release follow things more closely, so the don't really need that list. I know we're not there at this moment, but... |
| 00:20:01 | | Quit gregzx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:20:33 | kugel | I think that's no reason to not have fixed bugs in release notes |
| 00:20:43 | bluebrother | making the list of fixed issues isn't necessarily a good thing −− release users are less likely to read it if its longer. |
| 00:21:09 | JdGordon| | they will read the fixed list |
| 00:21:19 | | Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:21:23 | gevaerts | the list is meant for release users. They don't care about bugs that were present for two days in trunk and that they never saw |
| 00:21:47 | kugel | we should probably remove fixed bugs in rbutil though if we don't plan on paralell releases (also, rbutil has its own release notes) |
| 00:22:03 | gevaerts | hm, indeed |
| 00:22:33 | kugel | gevaerts: I wouldn't sign that statement |
| 00:23:01 | kugel | people that want stable builds aren't automatically those which don't care about developement |
| 00:23:26 | bluebrother | how's the state of this "numerical sorting" thing? Unless I've missed something there hasn't anything changed since 3.2, thus the same arguments apply and it should get disabled in 3.3 (again). |
| 00:24:08 | bluebrother | kugel: if those care about development they can follow the svn activity. |
| 00:24:18 | gevaerts | kugel: people who care about development shouldn't need the release notes to keep up to date |
| 00:24:23 | kugel | which is not exactly an overfew about fixed bugs |
| 00:24:55 | kugel | bluebrother: I asked on the -dev list. Nobody raised his voice against enabling it |
| 00:25:16 | gevaerts | Why do we need a huge list of fixed bugs? |
| 00:25:54 | bluebrother | how many user are only using release builds, not following svn activity and _still_ interested in the intermediate bugs? As much as the morse-code section? Or the hwcodec ones? |
| 00:26:19 | Mikachu | my guess is there are some bugs reported against the svn builds that are also present in 3.2 |
| 00:26:43 | gevaerts | true. In an ideal world we should list those |
| 00:26:51 | gevaerts | I'm not sure if it's practical though |
| 00:26:54 | bluebrother | kugel: can't find that email. Was that in the last couple of days? |
| 00:27:02 | kugel | a few weeks ago |
| 00:27:08 | bluebrother | *gnah* |
| 00:27:47 | gevaerts | So yes, if you're fairly confident that a bug was in 3.2 even while it's not been reported against 3.2, by all means add it to the release notes |
| 00:27:48 | kugel | May 27th |
| 00:28:19 | kugel | ok, so only 3.2 bugs |
| 00:30:22 | kugel | I think we should leave it enabled |
| 00:30:25 | | Quit ender` (" A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle. -- Vique's Law") |
| 00:31:01 | | Part Jax184 |
| 00:31:12 | Unhelpful | hrm. do we have a document somewhere with cycle counts for add16? |
| 00:32:03 | saratoga | thats an arm5 instruction? |
| 00:33:22 | kugel | Unhelpful: are you going to keep a equivalent C version ? |
| 00:33:37 | amiconn | That's a requirement |
| 00:33:46 | kugel | it's always nice to have that, although IDCT is above many heads anyway |
| 00:34:08 | amiconn | Well, unless he wants to write versions for all target architectures, plus all potential sim architectures |
| 00:34:49 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Timing on armv6 is quite complex, as it depends on when you're going to use the result (pipelining) |
| 00:35:06 | kugel | well, I mean equivalent in the means of optimizations which come in during the asm'ifying |
| 00:35:21 | kugel | otherwise he could just keep the current c version |
| 00:35:24 | amiconn | Get the arm1136jf-s technical reference manual from infocenter.arm.com |
| 00:35:43 | amiconn | Some optimisations are impossible to express as C code |
| 00:36:05 | kugel | sure, as possible of course |
| 00:36:17 | | Quit PaulJam_ (".") |
| 00:36:39 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:36:40 | amiconn | That's one reason why asm is often faster than C. It allows to exploit all the special instructions which don't translate to C |
| 00:37:01 | CIA-37 | New commit by saratoga (r21304): Remove unused variable and assignment. |
| 00:37:47 | amiconn | One very simple example is if you want to test all bits of a word sequentially. In C you need to test the lsb, then right-shift |
| 00:38:20 | kugel | no rotate in c, yea, sad sometimes |
| 00:38:35 | Mikachu | how would rotate be an optimization over shift? |
| 00:38:42 | amiconn | In asm, you can just right-shift on most processors, as the shifted-out bit automatically ends up in the carry flag (or equivalent) |
| 00:39:05 | | Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") |
| 00:39:08 | | Join webtaz [0] (n=chatzill@p4FD4CF43.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:39:16 | Mikachu | and gcc doesn't do that optimization? :) |
| 00:39:20 | amiconn | no |
| 00:39:26 | kugel | that too, I worked that way in a recent 8086 asm course |
| 00:40:10 | webtaz | do i need to compile a new bootloader in order to use a new build? |
| 00:40:13 | | Join leachim6 [0] (n=leachim6@rrcs-97-76-132-203.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:40:18 | | Quit bertrik (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 00:40:18 | saratoga | usually not |
| 00:40:18 | webtaz | on the fuze* |
| 00:40:19 | leachim6 | yo |
| 00:40:23 | amiconn | Same thing works for lsb and left-shift (if you need the opposite bit order) |
| 00:40:35 | leachim6 | I've got the latest rockbox installed...and I found this awesome plugin for for lyrics -> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7432?histring=snc |
| 00:40:36 | amiconn | Err, msb |
| 00:40:40 | leachim6 | is that a trivial or nontrivial isntall? |
| 00:40:57 | saratoga | leachim6: check the guide to patching on the wiki |
| 00:41:04 | leachim6 | haha |
| 00:41:06 | leachim6 | I knew you'd say that |
| 00:41:11 | leachim6 | I don't wanna know how to do it |
| 00:41:17 | leachim6 | if it's nontrivial I'm not even gonna attempt it... |
| 00:41:25 | leachim6 | because I have like 5 minutes to work now |
| 00:41:30 | | Quit mcuelenaere () |
| 00:41:33 | saratoga | its going to take longer then that |
| 00:41:49 | saratoga | unless you've already got the tools installed |
| 00:42:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:42:12 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
| 00:42:14 | webtaz | and now how compiling works |
| 00:42:51 | leachim6 | yup |
| 00:42:56 | leachim6 | oh crap... |
| 00:43:04 | leachim6 | I need to have the special arm compilers and such... |
| 00:43:05 | leachim6 | grr... |
| 00:43:13 | leachim6 | I have patch and gcc and all that jazz... |
| 00:43:44 | kugel | saratoga: thanks for fixing the red btw. I obviously wasn't awake enough :) |
| 00:43:59 | leachim6 | so I'm gonna need the entire rockbox tree... |
| 00:44:03 | saratoga | no problem |
| 00:44:04 | leachim6 | ...and the entire toolchain |
| 00:44:17 | leachim6 | ...once I've got it all compiled...can I flash it via rbutil ? |
| 00:44:18 | saratoga | leachim6: you don't need to tell us these things, we already know |
| 00:44:20 | krazykit | leachim6, you don't really need to think aloud in the channel |
| 00:44:30 | leachim6 | sorry about that... |
| 00:44:38 | leachim6 | they were kind of questions though... |
| 00:44:45 | webtaz | i know it is not supported, but if i try new builds on my fuze (which works withmy olderbuild) it trys to start but hangs after 7 lines(loadign firmware; length; checksum; model name; loading rockbox.sansa sum; executing) |
| 00:44:54 | webtaz | any idea why? |
| 00:45:12 | Mikachu | leachim6: it's been 5 minutes now |
| 00:45:23 | leachim6 | ... |
| 00:45:28 | funman | webtaz: yes, because it's unsupported .. |
| 00:45:36 | leachim6 | since I entered the channel? |
| 00:45:45 | Mikachu | since you said "i have 5 minutes" |
| 00:45:53 | funman | some people have put builds available on the web so you shoud get support from them |
| 00:45:54 | saratoga | has the fuze bootloader changed? |
| 00:45:56 | webtaz | I'm sure this is not the reason.... just an answer... |
| 00:46:10 | evilnick_home | leachim6: By all means ask questions, but as this channel is logged for the developers it'd be best if you could keep from the internal monologue! |
| 00:46:34 | funman | some people needed to update the bootloader when data cache was enabed |
| 00:47:02 | webtaz | ok, so i try compiling a new one |
| 00:47:40 | leachim6 | evilnick_home, sorry :/ my bad... |
| 00:48:07 | krazykit | leachim6, you don't "flash" a new build, but i believe rbutil can install from a provided rockbox.zip |
| 00:48:19 | krazykit | or you could just unzip it yourself |
| 00:48:25 | leachim6 | that's true...I forgot... |
| 00:48:29 | leachim6 | sorry :( |
| 00:48:37 | leachim6 | I'm being stupid today...and rather annoying I gather... |
| 00:52:44 | leachim6 | so... |
| 00:52:53 | leachim6 | I searched the wiki for how to apply a patch ... |
| 00:52:57 | leachim6 | and I got nothing |
| 00:55:19 | | Quit funman ("leaving") |
| 00:55:23 | saratoga | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches |
| 00:55:29 | leachim6 | thanks |
| 00:55:31 | saratoga | I searched for "patch" and it came up |
| 00:55:40 | kugel | gevaerts: the list should be complete now |
| 00:55:42 | leachim6 | ohh...I search for "how to apply a patch" |
| 00:55:53 | stripwax | saratoga - so, when you mentioned that the mdct in lib could be optimised to take advantage of 'middle symmetry' - what did you have in mind? |
| 00:56:05 | * | stripwax says hello by the way - hi! |
| 00:57:18 | saratoga | leachim6: in general when using a search engine, you should not ask it questions, but rather type a list of keywords |
| 00:57:27 | saratoga | its just a computer it won't understand english |
| 00:57:52 | leachim6 | ...I know that...today just has been a long day...I'm normally a relatively proficient user |
| 00:57:55 | stripwax | (context: I think you said we're doing twice as many multiplies as we need to) |
| 00:58:02 | leachim6 | ...and am usually good at formulating queries ... |
| 00:58:05 | saratoga | stripwax: the MDCT returns 2N samples, but really you only need N since half are duplicated |
| 00:58:38 | saratoga | so we could get rid of half the samples and save about 1 fixed point mul, a few loads/stores, and 16KB of IRAM on all MDCT targets |
| 00:58:41 | stripwax | saratoga - yep, and I think the mdct lib shifts the N into the first half of the output array. |
| 00:59:13 | saratoga | i think the speed up would be fairly small, but at least we'd save some IRAM |
| 00:59:59 | leachim6 | I never realized there were so many cool patches for rockbox...what patches do you guys use ? |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:04 | saratoga | i think it would be really easy to add this to our MDCT, since we could just remove the last couple lines that duplicate the entries |
| 01:00:14 | saratoga | but changing the individual codecs i harder |
| 01:00:14 | | Join lilltiger [0] (n=lilltige@82.145.152.217) |
| 01:00:28 | stripwax | do we not need 2N-size input, and operate in-place in IRAM? not sure how we'd save IRAM in that case |
| 01:00:44 | stripwax | Agree, don't need the lines that duplicate entries, codecs surely not using those (I'd hope) |
| 01:00:50 | saratoga | I don't know about vorbis, but WMA at least does not operate in place |
| 01:00:54 | stripwax | ah! |
| 01:01:05 | saratoga | i spent a long time trying to make it do so but gave up, without realizing this symmetry existed |
| 01:01:08 | lilltiger | hi, i read that rockbox now partly works on the Fuze, but does anyone know how well it works? |
| 01:01:11 | stripwax | then yep, definitely |
| 01:01:24 | saratoga | let me look at vorbis |
| 01:01:31 | stripwax | vorbis operates inplace |
| 01:02:40 | stripwax | if there's enough IRAM we now actually have two iram buffers and flip between them (rather than memcpy anything) |
| 01:03:05 | stripwax | which is actually super wasteful but gives a bit of a speedup |
| 01:03:46 | soap | Please excuse me if this has already been said - but does anyone else thing the LUA mention in the 3.3 Release notes should be clarified? If I read that line w/o prior knowledge I would assume the Rockbox interface can be LUA scripted... |
| 01:04:32 | saratoga | stripwax: the imdct is in place or the windowing + imdct are in place? |
| 01:04:47 | kugel | soap: I don't disagree |
| 01:05:02 | kugel | the whole page is work-in-progress still |
| 01:05:17 | | Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") |
| 01:05:26 | Mikachu | just say plugins can be written in lua? |
| 01:05:27 | stripwax | the imdct is in place. the windowing adds (a+b) to either a or b depending on which would result in fewer multiplies |
| 01:05:59 | stripwax | at least I'm pretty sure the mdct is in place (I think we call with the same arg for input and output buffer) |
| 01:06:12 | safetydan | soap: it could be clearer. Maybe "Rockbox now supports plugins written using the LUA language." |
| 01:06:39 | safetydan | Yeah I know they're not strictly plugins, but it's sort of the same concept |
| 01:06:49 | saratoga | stripwax: the imdct is always in place |
| 01:06:53 | stripwax | saratoga- sorry, the windowing is in place; the overlap doesn't use a third buffer |
| 01:06:57 | leachim6 | "rock" is the rockbox terminology for plugin correct? |
| 01:07:03 | leachim6 | a "rock" and a plugin are the same thing |
| 01:07:07 | leachim6 | ? |
| 01:07:08 | saratoga | third buffer? does it use two? |
| 01:07:19 | saratoga | rock is the file extension used for plugin files |
| 01:07:54 | stripwax | saratoga - for lapping, we have A (in iram if possible) which is previous frame, and B (always in iram), and we add either A to B or B to A. |
| 01:08:04 | leachim6 | saratoga, so that's a yes then... |
| 01:08:06 | soap | it's a fine matter of semantics. Would saying "Addition of a LUA interpreter plugin" be better than how it is phrased now? |
| 01:08:09 | stripwax | at this point, both A and B have already been windowed |
| 01:08:21 | saratoga | stripwax: if I understand you correctly, thats what WMA does now |
| 01:08:50 | stripwax | thought you said wma doesn't do mdct in place? |
| 01:08:56 | saratoga | but I think it should be possible to have one buffer that holds the previous block and holds the iMDCT, though it'll need to be 2N samples big |
| 01:08:56 | kugel | funman: (for the logs) backlight on GPIO on c200v2? The backlight works exactly like on the other targets IIRC (powering the dcdc) |
| 01:09:14 | stripwax | you'll also need at least N additional working space |
| 01:09:32 | saratoga | right now WMA uses an 2N sample buffer to hold the previous and present blocks, and another N sample buffer for the iMDCT |
| 01:09:53 | stripwax | actually that's what vorbis used to do- 2N iram buffer plus N buffer for previous frame |
| 01:10:19 | | Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (n=stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) |
| 01:10:25 | stripwax | we only recently increased the vorbis iram usage [if enough iram available] |
| 01:10:41 | stripwax | (that commit of mine :-) |
| 01:10:46 | saratoga | how much memory does it use now for N sample blocks? |
| 01:10:58 | saratoga | including iMDCT working space, windowing, and previous frame? |
| 01:11:33 | stripwax | depending on bitrate, either 2N + 2N in iram, or 2N in iram plus N in dram. I think. |
| 01:11:51 | stripwax | depending on bitrate (which influences N) and iram availability that is |
| 01:11:53 | saratoga | yeah so thats basically what WMA does with the added optimization to avoid memcpy |
| 01:12:04 | saratoga | N is independent of bitrate actually |
| 01:12:22 | saratoga | or at least it should be unless vorbis encoders are very strange |
| 01:12:31 | saratoga | usually its determined by the sample rate |
| 01:12:51 | stripwax | I *thought* N could depend on bitrate but sample rate sounds more likely |
| 01:13:30 | stripwax | Vorbis encoders might *also* be very strange :) |
| 01:13:44 | saratoga | usually you pick how long you want your long and short blocks in milliseconds and then adjust the window sizes to achieve that at each sample rate |
| 01:14:10 | leachim6 | how long does it usually take to run rockboxdev.sh? |
| 01:14:18 | leachim6 | I have a 3.0ghz p4 |
| 01:14:20 | saratoga | minutes to hours depending on your CPU |
| 01:14:29 | stripwax | makes sense. so I'm still trying to work out which multiply we could save but I'll sleep on that .. |
| 01:14:31 | leachim6 | speak of the devil...done |
| 01:14:44 | saratoga | stripwax: easy |
| 01:15:04 | saratoga | you save one in windowing, since right now we window both halves of the symetric data |
| 01:15:07 | stripwax | As for getting rid of the last loop to reorder the results - I think that's what the lomem branch for Tremor does |
| 01:15:56 | stripwax | saratoga - I don't think we do (for vorbis at least). We only window the first N samples not all 2N of the current frame |
| 01:16:15 | kugel | saratoga: didn't you work on backporting tremor code to upstream? |
| 01:16:18 | kugel | saratoga: didn't you work on backporting tremor code to upstream? |
| 01:16:18 | stripwax | or do you mean we only need to window one buffer and not the other? |
| 01:16:26 | kugel | whoops |
| 01:16:35 | saratoga | stripwax: you window half of each block then window the other half on the next pass |
| 01:16:43 | saratoga | the forward and reverse multiply loops in tremor |
| 01:16:59 | saratoga | kugel: yeah thats on my todo list still, just been busy with other things |
| 01:17:05 | stripwax | saratoga - right, but with a (potentially) different shaped window. |
| 01:17:36 | saratoga | i think this trick will still work even if different windows are used, though you'll need one extra load if you use two windows |
| 01:17:48 | saratoga | let me pastebin something |
| 01:18:51 | | Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting") |
| 01:18:55 | saratoga | does vorbis use two different windows? |
| 01:19:03 | stripwax | yep, short and long. |
| 01:19:06 | saratoga | oh |
| 01:19:14 | saratoga | they're still the same window |
| 01:19:22 | saratoga | i thought you meant two windows like AAC with Sin and KBD |
| 01:19:43 | stripwax | ah, no. same window function but different size. anyway, I gotta go sleep now, so I'll check logs in the a.m. |
| 01:19:52 | saratoga | hold on i'll give you code showing how its handled |
| 01:19:53 | stripwax | different size => different window factors |
| 01:19:56 | | Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") |
| 01:20:01 | saratoga | http://mibbit.com/pb/xUz3A8 |
| 01:20:53 | saratoga | anyone care if I fix tabs in tremor? |
| 01:22:18 | saratoga | hmm it does look like lowmem tremor is already using this optimization |
| 01:22:20 | kugel | I thought we don't touch imported code |
| 01:22:34 | Unhelpful | amiconn: i'd be surprised if add16 without the saturate option is slower than add, although it might be. a partitioned add or subtract amounts to cutting the borrow or carry logic between certain bits. |
| 01:22:54 | saratoga | in this case we broke tabs by converting parts of some files to use 4 spaces and others to use 2 spaces |
| 01:23:06 | saratoga | i think its worth making them consistent |
| 01:23:23 | leachim6 | ok...I got all the stuff setup...the environment is in place...I've got my patchfile in the right spot and included it in SOURCES... |
| 01:23:25 | leachim6 | now what? |
| 01:23:31 | saratoga | xiph is kind of stupid with this lowmem tremor crap, they should have just fixed normal mem tremor |
| 01:23:33 | leachim6 | it just says "Build rockbox again" in the readme |
| 01:24:00 | saratoga | what step are you at |
| 01:24:07 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 01:24:09 | | Join amiconn_ [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 01:24:12 | leachim6 | all I need to do is compile |
| 01:24:14 | | Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.) |
| 01:24:14 | | Join pixelma_ [50] (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 01:24:15 | leachim6 | everything is in place |
| 01:24:25 | Unhelpful | kugel: the asm is using *exactly* the same math. there are definitely parts i'm doing in ASM that aren't really possible in C, like doing two adds at once (unless you use vector extensions), using the arm MULxy instructions that let you select either the top or bottom of each input register for a 16x16->32 multiply. many things can not be done in C. only the math is the same. |
| 01:24:27 | saratoga | not everything or you wouldn't be asking |
| 01:24:31 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 01:24:34 | | Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 01:24:39 | leachim6 | saratoga, well I just need to know what command I need to run from where |
| 01:24:55 | saratoga | so what step are you at? |
| 01:25:04 | leachim6 | ...the...building? step? |
| 01:26:27 | leachim6 | I'm in the root of the "Rockbox" folder I checked out of svn..and I moved my patch file into place in the hierarchy into apps/sncviewer.c and added it to SOURCES per the documentation |
| 01:26:42 | leachim6 | the documentation says to "Build Rockbox" and i wanna know what command I run from where to build rockbox |
| 01:26:43 | saratoga | have you patched the source yet? |
| 01:26:47 | leachim6 | no |
| 01:26:51 | leachim6 | haha is that what you were asking? |
| 01:27:05 | leachim6 | it's not really a patch file...it doesn't patch anything...it's actually just a standalone c file |
| 01:27:31 | saratoga | then you need to compile |
| 01:27:36 | saratoga | follow the instructions I linked you before |
| 01:28:00 | leachim6 | would you mind linking me again? I seem to have lost it |
| 01:28:01 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:28:06 | saratoga | check the logs |
| 01:28:39 | leachim6 | ...yeah I know...but a lot of links were flying around here |
| 01:28:47 | leachim6 | you mean the WorkingWithPatches link? because there is no help there... |
| 01:29:13 | Mikachu | you are allowed to click the links on that page |
| 01:29:27 | saratoga | i'm stepping out good luck |
| 01:30:05 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:30:21 | webtaz | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToCompiling#Adding_Patches <- try this |
| 01:30:57 | leachim6 | thanks |
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| 01:31:29 | webtaz | i get now (with new bootloader and new build) the error "no .rockbox directory" and "installation incomplete" |
| 01:32:10 | webtaz | i'm sure the .rockbox directory is on the player (root) |
| 01:32:22 | webtaz | what could be the reason for this? |
| 01:34:22 | webtaz | rb then apparently can't access the filesystem (weird filenames in the file-menu, no plugins ...) |
| 01:37:48 | leachim6 | ok I got it, thanks for you guys' help |
| 01:39:15 | | Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 01:41:26 | leachim6 | ok...so I tried to compile the simulator...and I get this error -> http://pastie.org/513228 |
| 01:41:32 | leachim6 | this is with the bleeding edge svn |
| 01:43:26 | kugel | hm |
| 01:43:32 | kugel | looking at pondlife's fix |
| 01:43:44 | kugel | it looks like the timestrech buffer is always allocated now? |
| 01:45:21 | Mikachu | leachim6: run this command: file /media/data/rockbox/devenvironment/apps/plugins/sncviewer.c |
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| 01:47:34 | kugel | it should covered with global_settings.timestrech_enabled, shouldn't it? |
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| 01:56:40 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 01:59:08 | kitas | webtaz: the internal file system on some AMS sansas seems to be broken since mmu and cache are enabled |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:57 | kitas | all before r21228 should be functional, but slow |
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| 02:08:21 | webtaz_ | new compiled builds produce the error: "no .rockbox directory" and "installation incomplete" |
| 02:08:30 | webtaz_ | why is it like that? |
| 02:09:10 | | Join kitas [0] (n=5b27768f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-81602bb7c9c23c49) |
| 02:10:02 | | Quit gregzx_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]") |
| 02:10:22 | kitas | see forum http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.990 |
| 02:11:06 | | Quit webtaz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:11:11 | kitas | firmware can't read the files in .rockbox directory |
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| 02:16:57 | kugel | timestrech is broken again :( |
| 02:18:27 | | Quit tvelocity[a] (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 02:18:38 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 02:19:06 | | Part toffe82_ |
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| 02:22:01 | Unhelpful | hrm, sadd16 is supposed to have a result latency of 1. how can this *possibly* be slower... |
| 02:24:14 | Unhelpful | is ldmia perhaps slower for loading only two registers than doing two loads? |
| 02:29:33 | | Quit webtaz_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:29:37 | saratoga | is anyone familar with the text editor? Yoshihisa Uchida's patches should probably be commited |
| 02:29:38 | | Join yesssss [0] (n=alex@pool-98-111-185-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:31:20 | yesssss | hey, can I get wiki write permissions? theres an error in the LinuxCompilingGuide page |
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| 02:31:35 | | Quit webtaz_ (Client Quit) |
| 02:32:18 | saratoga | sure whats your name |
| 02:32:32 | yesssss | Meyer Merenstein |
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| 02:33:54 | saratoga | done |
| 02:34:08 | yesssss | cool thanks : D |
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| 02:42:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:47:42 | kugel | saratoga: I thought about looking at it further too |
| 02:47:52 | kugel | some seem to be useful |
| 02:49:12 | saratoga | i hate to let good patches rot |
| 02:49:15 | saratoga | particularly for plugins |
| 02:49:34 | saratoga | i'd favor giving people like him who are interested in maintaining plugins svn access |
| 02:49:36 | | Quit webtaz__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:50:35 | JdGordon| | which patches are you talking about? |
| 02:51:45 | kugel | saratoga: if he at least wouldn't need google translator or something :/ |
| 02:52:25 | saratoga | some combination of 9855, 9892, 9893, 9898, 9902, and 9990 |
| 02:52:31 | saratoga | yeah the language thing is a problem |
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| 02:54:56 | kugel | although he's quite patient and willing to edit patches in a way we could like them |
| 02:56:34 | saratoga | as long as hes asking before commiting things to core I don't see much problem with him working on plugins |
| 02:59:12 | | Quit efyx__ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:59:15 | saratoga | hmm maybe that optimization i suggested to stripwax won't save as much memory as I thought |
| 02:59:53 | CIA-37 | New commit by kugel (r21305): Get rid of tdspeed_enabled in struct dsp_config and use the global_settings member instead. That one needs to be checked in tdspeed_init() as well, ... |
| 03:00 |
| 03:01:53 | kugel | the svn server is slooooow |
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| 03:08:42 | Unhelpful | amiconn: if i understand this correctly, as long as i have the operands ready one instruction before it, and can do other things for two instructions after it, SMLAxy with an appropriate constant loaded is faster than SXTH + ADD. insane. |
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| 03:23:22 | kugel | interesting arm binsize increase again |
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| 03:52:58 | Blue_Dude | Hi. I just posted a bug fix for FS #10335. Please take a look. |
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| 04:34:35 | leachim6 | hey |
| 04:34:41 | leachim6 | do any of you guys have lyrics on your Rockbox ? |
| 04:34:47 | leachim6 | if so, which patch do you use for it |
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| 05:00 |
| 05:12:14 | leachim6 | hello? |
| 05:13:24 | Unhelpful | please be more patient. many of the developers are scattered across europe, and it's fairly late in the US, and it's quite possible that nobody paying attention at this very moment can offer a useful answer to your question. i certainly can't, i don't use lyrics. |
| 05:31:22 | safetydan | leachim6: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8572 might do what you want but I don't use lyrics myself |
| 05:31:24 | JdGordon | we are gplv2 or later yeah? |
| 05:32:03 | safetydan | JdGordon: yes I think that was the decision |
| 05:46:45 | Llorean | Yep |
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| 06:00 |
| 06:01:40 | * | JdGordon prepares a *big* plugins fix commit :) |
| 06:08:03 | * | JdGordon is almost upset that jewels is losing its custom menu... |
| 06:08:10 | JdGordon | it was the only custom menu which was nice |
| 06:09:11 | Llorean | Eventually it should be possible to re-create it with list viewports anyway, right? |
| 06:12:06 | JdGordon | sure |
| 06:12:18 | JdGordon | forget eventusally... it could be done now |
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| 06:14:32 | Unhelpful | you could use that to get the playback control submenu to match as well, couldn't you? |
| 06:18:15 | | Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 06:23:12 | JdGordon | you can do anything! :D |
| 06:23:16 | JdGordon | ok... here we go... |
| 06:25:25 | CIA-37 | New commit by jdgordon (r21306): Accept FS #10094 by Teruaki Kawashima: ... |
| 06:25:32 | * | JdGordon expects to need to do a follow up commit |
| 06:25:52 | JdGordon | oh bugger.. presed enter too soon |
| 06:31:21 | | Quit intrados (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 06:34:27 | JdGordon | hmm.... does it make more sense to use ACTION_STD_CANCEL or ACTION_STD_OK to get rid of a splash? |
| 06:35:09 | JdGordon | and... WTF? green build! |
| 06:35:10 | JdGordon | :D |
| 06:35:49 | JdGordon | probably cancel which would make it almost impossible to remove a splash accidently |
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| 06:41:07 | Llorean | The problem with getting rid of splashes, in general, is they also go away on their own |
| 06:41:24 | Llorean | It makes it really easy to accidentally click or cancel something else if you don't press the button to get rid of them soon enough |
| 06:41:27 | JdGordon | not soon enough though |
| 06:41:51 | JdGordon | I thought we had this discussion already and the outcome was it would be ok |
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| 06:42:14 | Llorean | I wasn't here for that one, I guess. |
| 06:42:33 | Llorean | Is one second really that long? |
| 06:43:24 | JdGordon | no, but its annoying... also the fact that there is no set time for splashes, the other purpose if this is to have them consistantly at say 3s or something |
| 06:44:53 | JdGordon | 817 splashes need to be fixed though which is why i dont want to do that :p |
| 06:45:08 | Llorean | I don't know why there needs to be a set time for splashes. |
| 06:45:15 | JdGordon | consistancy |
| 06:45:20 | Llorean | Consistency with what? |
| 06:45:26 | JdGordon | 1s is too slow if you arnt expecting the splash |
| 06:45:36 | Llorean | Making everything the same for the sake of making everything the same is kinda pointless. |
| 06:45:59 | JdGordon | the same can be said about consistant keymaps between targets |
| 06:46:09 | Llorean | Why not make all splashes with a timeout require cancelling instead, then? |
| 06:46:30 | JdGordon | because that means you have to press a button... and people wont know to do that |
| 06:46:33 | Llorean | JdGordon: That's not "for the sake of consistency", that's "to ease transition between use of the targets, and allow easier development for targets not owned by the developer" |
| 06:46:55 | Llorean | If a splash pops up and doesn't go away, the very first thing they'll do is press a button |
| 06:47:06 | Llorean | If you make *every* button cancel the splash, it's as simple as that |
| 06:47:10 | JdGordon | only the cancel button will get rid of it |
| 06:47:17 | Llorean | So don't limit it to the cancel button. |
| 06:47:25 | JdGordon | allowing any button will mean accidental dismissals |
| 06:47:56 | Llorean | And having timed splashes will mean accidental triggering of other things - something worse than mere accidental dismissals. |
| 06:48:05 | JdGordon | ? |
| 06:48:20 | Llorean | I'm sorry, a question mark on its own gives me no clue which part of that you didn't understand. |
| 06:48:33 | JdGordon | well, there is no smiley for a blank face... |
| 06:48:42 | Llorean | A blank face wouldn't either. |
| 06:48:50 | JdGordon | i have no idea what that last statement was about |
| 06:49:01 | Llorean | If splashes go away on their own *and* a button makes them go away, if someone presses the button too late, they'll cause something else to happen instead. |
| 06:49:10 | Llorean | For example, the cancel button may also stop playback if used in the list. |
| 06:49:39 | JdGordon | well.. here is the fun.. with a tiny bit of extra code I can make that impossible |
| 06:49:48 | Llorean | How do you make that impossible? |
| 06:49:56 | JdGordon | by not quiting untill the button is relelased |
| 06:49:59 | JdGordon | -l |
| 06:50:04 | Llorean | you missed the point |
| 06:50:15 | Llorean | I'm talking about if the button is pressed right *after* the splash vanishes |
| 06:50:21 | Llorean | If they're too slow |
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| 06:51:43 | JdGordon | well, then tough |
| 06:52:02 | Llorean | Well then tough to your people who might accidentally dismiss the splash without a timeout |
| 06:52:40 | Llorean | It's better to accidentally dismiss a splash than to accidentally do something else unexpected. |
| 06:53:32 | JdGordon | the window between the button dismissing the splash and being used int he next screen is soo bloody small its not worth worrying about.. AND there is nothing that can be done for it |
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| 06:54:18 | Llorean | There's plenty that can be done for it - for example not having splashes time out |
| 06:54:31 | Llorean | There's nothing that can be done for it that *you* like is what you meant. |
| 06:55:03 | Llorean | If you want to make all splashes have the same timeout, you're going to have to pick a longer time that's suitable for the splash with the most text. |
| 06:55:11 | JdGordon | yes |
| 06:55:13 | Llorean | That means most people are going to be annoyed by splashes that used to be shorter. |
| 06:55:14 | JdGordon | no |
| 06:55:22 | | Quit killan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 06:55:24 | Llorean | No? |
| 06:55:39 | Llorean | You already said, if you pick a single button, people won't know how to cancel. |
| 06:55:39 | JdGordon | it turns out no was to that comment also.. but mostly to my yes |
| 06:55:56 | Llorean | So the majority of people are just going to be stuck with longer splashes. |
| 06:56:01 | Llorean | By your own reasoning, even. |
| 06:56:49 | JdGordon | no, because if people read the manual it will say that splashes can be dismissed... however if what you want to happen happens, then they will wonder why the thing has locked up, because we know they dont read the manual |
| 06:57:35 | Llorean | What I want to happen is any key dismissing the splash |
| 06:57:46 | Llorean | So, I doubt they'll think it's locked up. |
| 06:57:57 | JdGordon | which *will* lead to accidentl dismissals |
| 06:58:04 | Llorean | Which is better than accidental other things |
| 06:58:10 | JdGordon | it wont happen |
| 06:58:20 | Llorean | You're crazy if you think it'll never happen |
| 06:58:37 | JdGordon | ok, it will happen... but not enough to worry about.... |
| 06:58:39 | Llorean | You'll do it yourself sometimes unless the splash time is set to so long that it's almost impossible for it to go away before you get to the button. |
| 06:59:28 | Llorean | It'll happen occasionally to everyone who knows they can cancel the splashes, because they'll be just a bit too slow sometimes and not think "oh, I should just let it vanish at this point" |
| 06:59:34 | JdGordon | so long? 3s is long enough for voice and to be able to read.... there is never (iirc) a splash which is triggered by something other than the user, so its not like you will look at the dap and realise a splash is showing |
| 07:00 |
| 07:00:00 | JdGordon | its either trigger splash and cancel immediatly, or read the thing and have it dismiss by itself |
| 07:00:26 | Llorean | 3s is a long, long time for splashes like "Cancelled" that users will see all the time |
| 07:00:40 | Llorean | Especially since most of those won't have read the manual and know they can cancel it (as you yourself have pointed out) |
| 07:00:50 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 07:00:57 | JdGordon | then they should read the manual |
| 07:01:04 | JdGordon | thats their punishment :) |
| 07:01:20 | Llorean | Yes, that's great - let's make the UI annoying for the majority of our users so you and a couple other people can cancel the occasional splash. |
| 07:01:39 | JdGordon | sounds good to me |
| 07:01:43 | Llorean | Which splash is it that annoyed you enough, frequently enough, to make you want this? |
| 07:02:06 | JdGordon | thats irrelevant |
| 07:02:11 | Llorean | No, it's really not |
| 07:02:18 | Llorean | This sounds a lot like a solution in search of a problem. |
| 07:02:29 | JdGordon | "nothing to resume" and "canceled" |
| 07:02:31 | Llorean | Do we actually have a problem being solved, or is this something you think is a "good idea" and don't care about the consequences? |
| 07:03:02 | Llorean | Both of those are due to user error. |
| 07:03:11 | JdGordon | no they arnt |
| 07:03:13 | Llorean | Stop trying to resume when there's nothing, and don't go into settings you don't want to change, and you'll never see them |
| 07:03:24 | JdGordon | how do you know there is nothing? |
| 07:03:27 | Llorean | That's *your* punishment, to use your phrasing |
| 07:03:35 | Llorean | Well me, I actually know when my playlist ends. |
| 07:03:41 | Llorean | Music stops on its own, etc. |
| 07:03:51 | JdGordon | and when you start up with the start screen not set to the wps? |
| 07:04:00 | Llorean | You basically want to "punish" our users (your words) to avoid the consequences of your own actions? |
| 07:04:10 | Llorean | My start screen's been the list for years. |
| 07:04:14 | Llorean | What does that have to do with it? |
| 07:04:33 | JdGordon | there is no way to know if there is a playlist on boot or not |
| 07:04:45 | Llorean | I have a little something called "memory" |
| 07:04:52 | JdGordon | well good for you |
| 07:04:58 | Llorean | If my playlist didn't end last time I used my player, then there's a playlist on boot. |
| 07:05:25 | Llorean | Another solution would be to have the "Resume Playback" option say something else if there's no playlist |
| 07:05:46 | Llorean | Of course, that wouldn't have the added benefit of "punishing" tens of thousands of users. |
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| 07:07:48 | Llorean | It could probably even simply say "Nothing to resume" re-using the string. |
| 07:09:36 | JdGordon | not unless you really want to punish everyone and have a slight delay every time the menu gets redrawn |
| 07:10:02 | | Join jfc^2 [0] (n=john@dpc691978010.direcpc.com) |
| 07:10:12 | * | JdGordon double checks that though |
| 07:11:26 | JdGordon | hmm.. that could be done actually |
| 07:11:32 | Llorean | Either way, my point is that if the problem is not knowing whether the playlist is empty or not on boot, the solution isn't "make tens of thousands of users have to wait extra time for the most common splashes to exit" |
| 07:11:51 | Llorean | It's "find a way to show the playlist status" |
| 07:11:57 | Llorean | At least, in my opinion |
| 07:12:25 | JdGordon | I will accept that yes thats a problem, but also I am still against not being able to dismiss splashes when you know they are coming |
| 07:13:31 | JdGordon | :) doesnt work anyway |
| 07:13:44 | Llorean | Maybe give splashes a priority? "Things you must know" "Things you should know" "Low priority" |
| 07:13:52 | Llorean | Then let the user pick which priority level to accept splashes from |
| 07:14:00 | * | JdGordon slaps self |
| 07:14:17 | Llorean | So you can turn off all but essential splashes (shutting down, this setting needs a reboot, etc) |
| 07:14:47 | Llorean | Never having them show is even better than being able to cancel them, I'd think. |
| 07:14:55 | CIA-37 | New commit by jdgordon (r21307): For those who dont have the memory of a <Something that has really good memory> show in the main menu that there is nothing to resume to stop the ... |
| 07:15:15 | Llorean | And we could probably add a third tier, "Extra Splashes" with some accessibility related information (Charging started, Charging ended, etc) that they'd like. |
| 07:15:18 | Llorean | Er, fourth tier |
| 07:15:22 | JdGordon | im pretty sure that would fall under the category of settings bloat |
| 07:15:38 | Llorean | Not if we need the option for extra accessibility information anyway |
| 07:16:06 | JdGordon | those arnt timed splashes anyway |
| 07:16:23 | Llorean | "This setting needs a reboot" is. |
| 07:16:38 | Llorean | But my point was more that if you set it to "Things you must know" basic informational ones like "Cancelled" or "Nothing to resume" wouldn't even display. |
| 07:17:09 | JdGordon | that really is over kill imo |
| 07:18:02 | Llorean | And intentionally "punishing" thousands of users so that you don't have to see cancelled for an extra second every now and then isn't overkill? |
| 07:19:19 | JdGordon | no |
| 07:19:25 | JdGordon | they will learn quickly |
| 07:19:35 | Llorean | As you said, most of them never see the manual |
| 07:19:42 | Llorean | They'll just assume we changed the timing on it. |
| 07:19:51 | Llorean | We'll probably get bug reports that splashes take longer than they used to. |
| 07:20:04 | JdGordon | which we'll close as by design/rtfm |
| 07:20:10 | JdGordon | which we expect users to do anyway |
| 07:20:34 | Llorean | I love this new "screw the users" attitude. Really I do. Why are you so attached to the idea of punishing them, when it's clear there's plenty of alternatives that don't require it? |
| 07:21:45 | JdGordon | wanna show me where on the site it says "rockbox, putting users first?" its always been about what we the devs want |
| 07:22:14 | Llorean | It's never been about screwing over the users because the dev can't be bothered to choose the right setting, though. |
| 07:22:57 | Llorean | I mean with your latest commit, now the only splash that really seems to be an issue is "cancelled". I'd say accept your own punishment and sit through it if you choose the wrong setting, and then move before backing out of it. |
| 07:23:07 | Llorean | I mean, 99% of the time even if you choose the wrong setting, you don't see cancelled. |
| 07:26:08 | | Quit jfc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 07:30:19 | JdGordon | 1) its not *only* those.. but they were the annoying ones... and 2) why is cancelling a setting a stupid thing to do? it doesnt have to be a mistake |
| 07:30:35 | Llorean | It's always a mistake of some degree. |
| 07:30:42 | Llorean | If you didn't want to change it, you didn't need to enter in the first place. |
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| 07:31:18 | JdGordon | you might want to just look at the aviable options, or decide while your there you want to not change |
| 07:31:31 | JdGordon | or change it for some time during the track and cancel quickly |
| 07:32:23 | Llorean | And it's possible to just re-select the same value to not see "Cancelled" too, isn't it? |
| 07:32:49 | CIA-37 | New commit by jdgordon (r21308): fix mysterious yellow which was one commit too slow |
| 07:33:03 | JdGordon | not if you dont know what it origionally was |
| 07:33:16 | Llorean | Ah yes, because you weren't looking at the screen when you entered the setting I guess? |
| 07:33:21 | JdGordon | the *point* is that splashes are annoying if you expect them |
| 07:33:35 | Llorean | If you expect them, you can avoid them anyway |
| 07:34:15 | JdGordon | and how would you avoid the "restart to enable" splash without editing the config on the conputer? |
| 07:34:42 | Llorean | Considering I'm going to be restarting my player, an extra second or two doesn't bother me in the slightest there. |
| 07:34:59 | JdGordon | i might not care about restarting right now though |
| 07:35:05 | Llorean | Then don't change the setting right now. |
| 07:35:10 | Llorean | Bam, avoided the splash |
| 07:35:38 | JdGordon | bah, no you havnt |
| 07:35:59 | Llorean | I didn't make thousands of users wait extra time to save me one second, either, though. |
| 07:38:01 | Llorean | There's a difference between doing things the way devs feel they should be done, and choosing to screw over users for insanely trivial benefits. |
| 07:38:48 | Llorean | So far the "Reboot" splash is the only one you've mentioned it's physically impossible to avoid through good planning anyway. |
| 07:39:06 | Llorean | And you still haven't explained what would be the benefit of this "consistency" longer splashes would add. |
| 07:40:13 | JdGordon | 1) easier/more maintanble code, 2) voiceing, 3) blind users |
| 07:40:56 | Llorean | How so for 2 and 3? |
| 07:41:04 | Llorean | No matter what we set the splash time to, slower voices can be longer than it. |
| 07:41:59 | LinusN | the reboot splash is just a band-aid fix anyway, before we fix the real issue with reallocating buffers |
| 07:42:30 | Llorean | So the reboot splash has a "real" fix as well, eventually. |
| 07:42:44 | Llorean | And the fix for "nothing to resume" has already been committed. |
| 07:42:52 | Llorean | "Cancelled" is darn easy to avoid in the first place. |
| 07:43:00 | Llorean | We're on a roll. Any other problematic splashes? |
| 07:43:26 | JdGordon | yay arguing specifics instead of the idea |
| 07:43:41 | JdGordon | once again.. its the splashes in general.. not only those specific ones which are annoying |
| 07:43:54 | Llorean | Well, the idea was supposed to solve a problem. In that case, it's pretty important to identify what the problem is, and that's what the specifics are about. |
| 07:44:17 | Llorean | As I said up at the beginning, it really seems like a solution searching for the problem. |
| 07:44:27 | Llorean | And you yourself have described it as "punishing" our users. |
| 07:44:35 | Llorean | If we're going to do that, we should have a damn good reason. |
| 07:47:35 | Llorean | That forum poll is pretty pointless, since the very people for whom it will be a problem (those that don't know about it) are the same people who don't see the poll |
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| 07:49:55 | Llorean | Not to mention you've gone quite out of your way to try to be as far from impartial on the matter as possible in your posting. |
| 07:50:19 | JdGordon | I never said i was impartial |
| 07:50:37 | JdGordon | it was gong to be worse, but i thought i better tone it down |
| 07:51:01 | amiconn | JdGordon: Conditional (i.e. timing dependent) reaction on buttons would be very bad. One reason to not add splash cancelling |
| 07:51:28 | JdGordon | I *hugely* disagree that it will be a problem |
| 07:51:39 | JdGordon | splashes only happen after you have triggered them.... |
| 07:51:48 | Llorean | JdGordon: Then don't trigger them and they won't be annoying!@ |
| 07:52:58 | Llorean | JdGordon: But if you plan to try to use the poll to justify something, you should make it as impartial as possible so people like me won't point out later that you intentionally created a biased poll, so all results are meaningless due to intentional skewing |
| 07:53:33 | JdGordon | if my previous Prime Minister can swing the vote with the question, then who am I to say thats not right? |
| 07:53:50 | * | Llorean thinks splashes that may be dismissed are only a good idea if there's no timeout, as that's when accidents are least likely, and the accidents that can occur are least harmful |
| 07:54:23 | JdGordon | and they will be missed more often |
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| 07:55:20 | Llorean | Missing a splash is less harmful than pressing the cancel button at the wrong time. |
| 07:55:46 | Llorean | It also means you never have to worry about whether there's enough time to voice it. |
| 07:56:35 | Llorean | Maybe you should take discussion of it to -dev instead of a random poll in the forums? |
| 07:57:21 | JdGordon | but you are all about the users... not the devs |
| 07:58:07 | Llorean | As I've pointed out, the user group that I fear your idea would harm couldn't possibly respond to the poll anyway |
| 07:58:27 | Llorean | Besides, as you're the one claiming it's about what devs want, shouldn't you be thrilled to take it to the -dev list? |
| 07:58:50 | * | JdGordon just likes arguing |
| 07:58:58 | JdGordon | I'm pretty sure this got the ok already anyway |
| 07:59:32 | * | JdGordon doesnt really want to admit that the wps text commit was enough for me to not care about this anymore |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:21:41 | JdGordon | now .eu is awake.... I wrote up http://pastebin.com/m2af620ba a while ago and wasnt sure if it should be posted ot the dev-ml or not... im going to bed now so If someone wants to take it and send it be my guest |
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| 09:10:07 | CIA-37 | New commit by pondlife (r21309): Renamed routines and changed comments for clarity. |
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| 09:27:41 | kugel | pondlife: I wasn't sure if "global_settings.timestretch_enabled = enable;" is needed. I added it for the case it's called outside the setting (i.e. without the setting as parameter) |
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| 09:44:21 | pondlife | kugel: Ideally there would be no need for the parameter, but settings.c wants it. |
| 09:44:56 | pondlife | Oops, missed him |
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| 10:12:05 | x72 | hi! I try to build the bootloader for ipod-video; it builds just fine, but it's size is about 750MiB, so ipodpatcher complains that image is too big. any thoughts? |
| 10:12:35 | x72 | build system is gentoo-x86; gcc 4.3.3 |
| 10:13:25 | Llorean | It should be less than 1MB I believe, and that's not the GCC you used to compile it (or shouldn't be) since the iPod is ARM |
| 10:15:04 | x72 | it's the cross-arm-elf gcc actually |
| 10:15:22 | x72 | and the rockbox itself works |
| 10:15:24 | gevaerts | try the toolchain built by rockboxdev.sh |
| 10:15:52 | x72 | so it's the toolchain issue, you think? |
| 10:16:18 | | Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 10:16:22 | gevaerts | if you're building from unmodified sources, I don't see what else it could be |
| 10:16:52 | pondlife | kugel: ping |
| 10:16:54 | x72 | well, yes, will try that, thank you! |
| 10:17:01 | kugel | pondlife: pong |
| 10:17:41 | pondlife | I can't repro your timestretch issue at all on the sim. :/ |
| 10:17:48 | kugel | weird |
| 10:17:59 | kugel | I can repro it everytime |
| 10:18:18 | pondlife | To clarify, you start playback, then go into the pitchscreen, press MODE twice, then press RIGHT to speed up? |
| 10:19:17 | pondlife | "sdl_audio_callback: No Data" is classic underrun, not a bug. But it shoudln't skip any track - might just take a while to get playing again though. |
| 10:19:49 | pondlife | I'm also not using EQ or crossfeed or similar.. |
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| 10:27:00 | kugel | pondlife: also happens with empty config.cfg |
| 10:27:31 | kugel | empty except for timestrech that is |
| 10:28:02 | pondlife | Ah, ok |
| 10:28:12 | pondlife | So did I get the recipe correct? |
| 10:28:17 | kugel | pondlife: "pitchscreen, press MODE twice, then press RIGHT to speed up" (right is speed only on my targets) |
| 10:28:23 | kugel | so yes |
| 10:28:51 | pondlife | But it's ok if you press MODE, MODE, DOWN ? |
| 10:29:08 | pondlife | i.e. increase speed and decrease pitch |
| 10:29:19 | kugel | down does nothing here |
| 10:29:57 | kugel | yes, doing that works fine. and after doing that, pressing select to reset, then RIGHT to speed up only works too |
| 10:31:51 | pondlife | Most odd |
| 10:32:33 | kugel | maybe something is used initialized |
| 10:32:40 | kugel | uninitialized |
| 10:33:20 | pondlife | Yes, but the only difference might be in a call to sound_set_pitch() |
| 10:35:46 | gevaerts | kugel: FS #10200 |
| 10:36:08 | kugel | ah thanks |
| 10:36:55 | kugel | gevaerts: I think that's solved by using tolower too. isn't " " between Z and a in ASCII? |
| 10:37:09 | gevaerts | no |
| 10:37:23 | pondlife | kugel: If you press RIGHT repeatedly, what happens on the screen - i.e. does the displaysd speed value increase while pitch remains at 100%? |
| 10:37:27 | Mikachu | space is around 0x20 iirc |
| 10:37:36 | gevaerts | it *is* 0x20 :) |
| 10:37:45 | kugel | pondlife: nothing happens but the displayed speed increases |
| 10:37:47 | kugel | oh |
| 10:38:18 | kugel | gevaerts: that's definitely weird then |
| 10:39:09 | gevaerts | kugel: the good news is that it includes a real example, so it can be tested :) |
| 10:39:32 | pondlife | kugel: Try pressing SELECT (or whatever the reset key is) before you press RIGHT? i.e. MODE MODE SELECT RIGHT |
| 10:40:27 | gevaerts | Anyway, that's a pretty common naming scheme for classical music, so I think the default sort order should handle it |
| 10:40:41 | kugel | gevaerts: yes sure |
| 10:40:45 | kugel | pondlife: no success |
| 10:41:00 | pondlife | You mean that still shows the problem? |
| 10:41:13 | | Quit r0b- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:41:24 | pondlife | Well, that's even odder as it calls sound_set_pitch() |
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| 10:41:43 | pondlife | What music format are you using? |
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| 10:48:26 | fml | Hrm... I'm a bit disappointed by the new main menu entry "Nothing to resume". I see the rationale behind it but it's a weird title for a menu entry. I can't say what would be better though. |
| 10:48:59 | pondlife | Just hide the option? |
| 10:50:17 | kugel | pondlife: mp3 |
| 10:50:30 | pondlife | Same here... |
| 10:51:58 | FrankTM | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8414 : last comment |
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| 10:53:03 | pondlife | FrankTM: Do you have both dircache AND load database to RAM enabled? |
| 10:53:27 | pondlife | If not, try enabling both and rebooting |
| 10:53:36 | FrankTM | i have no idea |
| 10:53:49 | FrankTM | where do I find that options |
| 10:53:51 | FrankTM | those* |
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| 10:54:55 | pondlife | Settings > General Settings > Database > Load To RAM |
| 10:55:16 | FrankTM | I do not have that option :o |
| 10:55:19 | pondlife | and Settings > General Settings > System > Disk > Directory Cache |
| 10:55:30 | pondlife | FrankTM: Which device? |
| 10:55:36 | FrankTM | Sansa Fuze |
| 10:55:48 | FrankTM | no Disk under System aswell |
| 10:56:57 | pondlife | Ah, I don't know then... |
| 10:57:54 | pixelma | could you state the device with your bug report as well? I think it's not unreasonable to think that ports in progress (especially reading that there are disk access /file system issues)... I don't say it's impossible that it's a general Rockbox bug but I'd be careful reporting this |
| 10:58:17 | kugel | gevaerts: funnily enough, xfce4-terminal doesn't handle those as well |
| 10:58:22 | FrankTM | pixelma: good point :) |
| 10:58:37 | FrankTM | i can't edit a comment in flyspray, can i? |
| 10:59:32 | kugel | gevaerts: that's without -v. ls -v fails too |
| 10:59:47 | kugel | not as bad as without -v at least |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:38 | PaulJam | Hi, does anybody know what SVN revision was used to buld the official H300 bootloader (v5)? |
| 11:02:02 | Llorean | It should be tagged in svn |
| 11:02:16 | Llorean | Looks like 8341 |
| 11:02:46 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 11:02:56 | pondlife | Ah, the H300 bootloader question... ;) |
| 11:03:01 | PaulJam | thank you |
| 11:03:01 | Llorean | PaulJam: What are you going to do with it? |
| 11:03:04 | kugel | FrankTM: sansa fuze is unsupported..... |
| 11:03:29 | kugel | database problems can come from a variety of problems on unsupported targets |
| 11:03:36 | FrankTM | kugel: i'm just trying to help squash the bug? |
| 11:03:57 | kugel | it does not help though if we cannot make sure the target itself works |
| 11:04:23 | kugel | and it currently even has filesystem problems |
| 11:04:28 | pondlife | Am I right to think that database update relies on dircache and/or load to RAM in order to delete entries (moved files etc.) or is that out of date? |
| 11:04:42 | kugel | I think that's true, yes |
| 11:04:52 | kugel | (for deleting at least) |
| 11:07:56 | PaulJam | Llorean: since the more recent bootloaders (for example the one on the CFModGuide page) don't work reliably on my H300 and i would like to use the RTC alarm feature, i thought it might be possible to just take the old working bootloader and just remove the check for the ON/PLAY button. I'm not sure if this would work. (and yes, i know there is the risk of bricking.) |
| 11:09:22 | funman | i can only transfer red component of pixels to the c200v2 graphic ram .. |
| 11:09:51 | Llorean | PaulJam: You might want to check, I'm not *entirely* sure we used the same compiler version back then. |
| 11:14:35 | PaulJam | Llorean: yes, i was planning to first build an unmodified bootloader and compare it to the official files and only proceed when the checksums match. how can i find out which compiler was used (i think it was v3.4.5 but i'm not sure)? |
| 11:14:52 | linuxstb | You could try the history of the CrossCompiler wiki page |
| 11:15:02 | PaulJam | ok |
| 11:15:45 | linuxstb | I don't know if LinusN can remember - he built all those bootloaders. |
| 11:17:13 | Llorean | It definitely wasn't 3.4.5 |
| 11:17:16 | Llorean | I'm thinking it was 3.4.3 |
| 11:17:43 | LinusN | i don't remember :-( |
| 11:18:40 | * | linuxstb wouldn't either... |
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| 11:19:52 | pondlife | PaulJam: What goes wrong for you on the later bootloaders? |
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| 11:20:46 | pondlife | I have an H300 that works ok with recent bootloaders, but am happy to help test any fixes you can come up with. |
| 11:24:43 | PaulJam | pondlife: on some players the bootloader crashes sometimes while booting (i don't remember what the errormessage was). LinusN and petur were looking into this issue during last years devcon. they probably can tell you more details. |
| 11:25:05 | pondlife | Is that what you see on yours though? |
| 11:25:33 | pondlife | I don't think petur and LinusN had enough time to make any progress. |
| 11:25:54 | petur | too bad Linus won't be here this year, he could pin it down to a certain commit but not what caused it |
| 11:26:06 | gevaerts | kugel: ls -v does indeed handle them badly. Plain ls has no problems here though, probably because of LANG=POSIX here |
| 11:26:27 | pondlife | petur: Don't suppose you know the revision that broke it? |
| 11:26:46 | pondlife | (That info ought to be added to the wiki, IMHO.) |
| 11:26:50 | petur | maybe I wrote it down at home, else ask Linus |
| 11:27:01 | pondlife | hehe |
| 11:27:14 | pondlife | LinusN: pingy? |
| 11:27:48 | * | gevaerts hopes that there will be things at devcon where the conclusion *won't* be "Ask Linus" ;) |
| 11:28:14 | * | pondlife wishes he had the time and money to attend |
| 11:29:43 | * | LinusN too |
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| 11:36:23 | kugel | gevaerts: http://pastie.org/513558 |
| 11:37:09 | kugel | yea, LANG=POSIX works better |
| 11:37:10 | kugel | weird |
| 11:37:28 | gevaerts | locale also specifies sorting order |
| 11:37:51 | gevaerts | Try with just LC_COLLATE=POSIX, that should work as well |
| 11:38:28 | kugel | why could this result in such a weird sorting? |
| 11:54:30 | kugel | pondlife: can you repro the sim skips at least? |
| 11:55:17 | pondlife | Yes, but that's expected - same happens quite often when it's buffering anyway here. |
| 11:55:43 | pondlife | I use −−root n: where n: is a slow networked drive :) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:04:04 | kugel | pondlife: I thought skipping is not expected |
| 12:04:12 | kugel | also, I never see those while playback |
| 12:04:53 | pondlife | Not skipping, gapping/pausing |
| 12:05:07 | pondlife | i.e. stop/start playback, but with nothing missed out |
| 12:08:33 | pondlife | kugel: It only happns when I have album art (on normal playback) |
| 12:09:12 | pondlife | Basically there's something that's not yielding enough on the sim. |
| 12:10:27 | kugel | I never experience that |
| 12:10:47 | pondlife | It's probably unrelated to what you're seeing though |
| 12:11:13 | kugel | I doubt that |
| 12:11:32 | kugel | I don't get the skipping if I use speed-corrected pitch before |
| 12:12:19 | safetydan | kugel: regarding FS #10335, I think the reporter mentioned it was the last 1000 or so samples... so that's like what, 1/20 of a second? |
| 12:13:19 | kugel | pondlife: that skipping is really only when I use my recipe |
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| 12:15:28 | kugel | safetydan: seems safe then. Put it should probably be in the if (playing) block |
| 12:17:19 | kugel | safetydan: also it would be great if you could say something to the recent beep/accessiblity discussion on the ml |
| 12:17:47 | kugel | pondlife: maybe you try it without that slow network drive? |
| 12:17:54 | pondlife | Yep, maybe |
| 12:17:55 | kugel | +could |
| 12:18:02 | pondlife | Not got time at the moment though |
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| 12:21:04 | pondlife | kugel: Has your problem only been with the "mpegplayer-fix"? |
| 12:21:18 | pondlife | Or was the original FS #8894 commit also broken in this way? |
| 12:21:30 | * | kugel goes trying |
| 12:22:45 | gevaerts | FS #10335 is at least a year old. amiconn saw it while trying to load software on his zx spectrum |
| 12:24:17 | safetydan | gevaerts: man, that took me a while to parse... was amiconn trying to playback spectrum tapes on rockbox? |
| 12:24:35 | pixelma | maybe there's a duplicate? I also wonder if this is the reason the voicing of the "end of playlist" splash is broken on swcodec and would be fixed with the patch |
| 12:24:40 | gevaerts | safetydan: yes. You connect a spectrum to your DAP, and you have your tapes as flac on the DAP |
| 12:24:49 | funman | my c200v2 seems to accept r(5)b(5)g(6) instead of r(5)g(6)b(5) Oo |
| 12:25:06 | kugel | pondlife: no skipping in sim, didn't try target yet |
| 12:25:24 | pondlife | Best if you stick to sim for now |
| 12:25:56 | kugel | I already looked if the mpegplayer commit could've caused it, but I can't see how |
| 12:26:13 | pixelma | safetydan: just using the DAP for playing the tapes back (and there's info in the end "noise") |
| 12:27:06 | kugel | pondlife: there seems to be another bug |
| 12:27:35 | pondlife | Sorry, I don't have time to help now |
| 12:27:47 | pondlife | Gotta go |
| 12:27:50 | | Part pondlife |
| 12:30:11 | safetydan | kugel: am I missing something? Is there a reason you think I should contribute to the bleeping thread? |
| 12:31:22 | kugel | isn't it your patch? |
| 12:31:47 | kugel | also, I thought the topic could touch you.. |
| 12:32:36 | pixelma | kugel: are you confusing him with sdoyon maybe? |
| 12:35:20 | safetydan | quite possibly |
| 12:35:30 | safetydan | I haven't contributed anything for a long time :) |
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| 12:37:06 | kugel | whoops |
| 12:37:09 | kugel | I guess I did |
| 12:37:37 | * | kugel goes in his corner |
| 12:38:13 | * | scorche|sh should have brought the stomping boots |
| 12:39:12 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: surely there must be a good stomping-boots-shop in Amsterdam! |
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| 13:41:51 | CIA-37 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21310): Onda VX747: fix backlight driver so it doesn't 'flicker' upon init |
| 13:42:47 | FrankTM | hmm. would that be on device start? |
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| 13:57:20 | funman |  /away lol |
| 13:57:27 | funman | >< sorry .. |
| 13:57:52 | gevaerts | funman: boring away message! |
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| 14:10:43 | Horschtl | hello |
| 14:11:10 | Horschtl | is the pegbox plugin a completely new game or a port/remake of an existing one? |
| 14:12:03 | pixelma | it's ported from a TI calclator game, as far as I know. Should be in the header of the c file |
| 14:13:11 | pixelma | hmm, not there. I wonder where I read it |
| 14:13:49 | Horschtl | I am asking because I realy like it. 15 Levels is just too little but I am not good at *creating* challenging puzzles. Só I was hoping that it would be a port of which we could try to get a few more levels :D |
| 14:15:40 | pixelma | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5725 - and I also looked for more levels ;) If I didn't miss something, there were not more in the original game |
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| 14:17:11 | Horschtl | http://www.detachedsolutions.com/puzzpack/pegs.php <- I also found the original game... |
| 14:19:34 | Horschtl | which realy contains only 15 levels :( |
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| 15:03:57 | akur | i have been reading the wiki page about the lang file |
| 15:04:13 | akur | and that table seems a bit outdated... |
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| 15:18:47 | funman | the storage works on c200v2 (i can load rockbox) but rockbox shows the logo, and then fastly i only see the backlight without anything on screen (backlight timeout still works though). And I still don't know how the colors are packed in one pixel |
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| 15:51:31 | fml | I'd like to pick up my earlier statement today about the "Nothing to resume" as a menu entry. Wouldn't it be better to have "Resume playback (Nothing to resume)" in that case? The drawback is that the title is more lengthy, but as a menu entry it would do more sense than just "Nothing to resume" IMHO since the latter doesn't tell what action is behind the menu entry. |
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| 16:13:47 | leachim6 | hey |
| 16:13:56 | leachim6 | does anyone here have lyrics on their rockbox? |
| 16:19:13 | evilnick_7 | I used the sncviewer briefly a few years ago |
| 16:19:52 | linuxstb | fml: I definitely think a menu option called "Nothing to resume" which can be used to display a splash saying "Nothing to resume" is very odd... |
| 16:21:06 | leachim6 | is there a way to view non-synced lyrics from ID3 tags |
| 16:21:12 | leachim6 | I just don't see the need for synced lyrics... |
| 16:21:21 | * | linuxstb wonders what happened to discussing feature changes prior to commit... |
| 16:21:59 | leachim6 | is there a patch I can use to view noncynced lyrics? |
| 16:22:37 | linuxstb | Have you searched the patch tracker for "lyrics" ? There's at least one there. |
| 16:28:29 | pixelma | linuxstb: wasn't the plan to get rid of that splash instead? But I agree "Nothing to resume" sounds odd in a menu |
| 16:31:05 | linuxstb | I don't have a problem with splashes, but I guess I'm more patient than most people... |
| 16:31:26 | fml | linuxstb: this phrase as an addition to "Resume playback" would be OK as a mean to avoid the splash that would pop up after selecting the entry. But these words alone are hard to understand. |
| 16:31:32 | | Quit biengo (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:31:44 | leachim6 | I keep getting "dlopen(simdisk/_temp_codec0.dll): simdisk/_temp_codec0.dll: invalid ELF header" on the simulator when I try to play an MP3 |
| 16:32:34 | FrankTM | leachim6: did you do make fullinstall? |
| 16:32:38 | leachim6 | ohhhhhhhh |
| 16:32:39 | leachim6 | nope |
| 16:33:00 | leachim6 | thanks |
| 16:33:02 | FrankTM | hehe.. that is what i did wrong last week :P |
| 16:33:15 | leachim6 | also ... I did search the patch tracker for Lyrics ... but I only found the Synced Lyrics plugin |
| 16:33:24 | leachim6 | and it's a PitA to get synced lyrics files for all of your music |
| 16:33:35 | leachim6 | especially when you're using the DB from the iPod |
| 16:33:40 | linuxstb | fml: Your suggestion just feels awkward to me. I wouldn't say the current (prior to today's change) is perfect (displaying a menu option that doesn't work), but it does the job. |
| 16:33:57 | pixelma | make fullinstall is only needed for the fonts, usually make install should do it |
| 16:33:58 | leachim6 | is there a way on linux to convert iPod Playlists to work in rockbox? |
| 16:34:07 | leachim6 | I didn't run install either |
| 16:34:08 | leachim6 | ... |
| 16:34:09 | leachim6 | just make |
| 16:34:37 | FrankTM | linuxstb: isn't it possible to hide that menuoption, when there's no current playlist |
| 16:34:52 | leachim6 | so I compiled the syncronized lyrics viewer |
| 16:34:57 | leachim6 | ... |
| 16:35:00 | leachim6 | how do I use it? haha |
| 16:35:03 | * | FrankTM pets leachim6 |
| 16:35:15 | linuxstb | FrankTM: Yes, but that has the downside of making it harder for blind navigation (which includes sighted users using the DAP without looking at the screen). |
| 16:35:18 | evilnick_7 | leachim6: You can sync your own lyrics within that plugin... |
| 16:35:44 | pixelma | leachim6: could you please stop hitting the enter key so often (especially before and after ...)? |
| 16:36:16 | FrankTM | linuxstb: i tend to forget about those everything i suggest something |
| 16:36:32 | leachim6 | pixelma, yeah sorry...I do that a lot...and it can get really annoying...sorry about that...very annoying habit ... |
| 16:37:06 | FrankTM | you also should read more |
| 16:37:54 | fml | FrankTM: that would make it obscure for sighted users as well as it would change the menu for no clear reason. |
| 16:38:50 | FrankTM | i agree with the first part of that :) |
| 16:41:09 | leachim6 | sorry |
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| 16:42:53 | FrankTM | leachim6: my point is, things you ask are probably described in the manual or in the bug report ;) |
| 16:43:51 | FrankTM | nfi |
| 16:45:16 | leachim6 | FrankTM, except one of my questions...where can I find a plugin to dispaly unsynced lyrics from ID3 ... |
| 16:45:31 | | Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:45:33 | leachim6 | the only one on the patch tracker is synced lyrics |
| 16:45:51 | FrankTM | it probably does not exists then |
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| 16:46:26 | leachim6 | dang |
| 16:46:39 | leachim6 | I saw something on the mailing list...but there was never any code... |
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| 16:46:48 | evilnick_7 | leachim6: IIRC, it displays either, if the lyrics file isn't synced then the user can scroll down as they please. |
| 16:47:15 | Blue_Dude | Last night I posted a bug fix for FS #10335. Comments are appreciated. |
| 16:48:14 | leachim6 | evilnick_7, oh sweet...now if only I could get it installed...I wish there was a simpler system for managing plugins |
| 16:49:24 | evilnick_7 | If you *only* want to try that out, then get the revision of code mentioned in the patch and then it will work, but you'll probably have an older version of Rockbox. |
| 16:50:11 | evilnick_7 | Each patch is patched against one revision of the code, the problems with updating them only happens if you use a revision that is *after* that revision |
| 16:54:41 | * | linuxstb wonders if he's alone in not liking JdGordon's change to the main menu |
| 16:57:29 | fml | linuxstb: you very probably are not |
| 16:58:25 | leachim6 | what patches do you guys use? |
| 16:59:24 | linuxstb | leachim6: I expect most people here use none. You may want to look at the unsupported builds forum to see which ones users seem to like. |
| 17:00 |
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| 17:00:35 | leachim6 | in all fairness...you guys don't seem to be typical users :) |
| 17:00:56 | linuxstb | leachim6: Yes, that's why I pointed you there... |
| 17:01:13 | linuxstb | But I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a typical user. |
| 17:03:09 | leachim6 | haha...that's true... |
| 17:04:08 | leachim6 | anyone who'd hack their Mp3 player's firmware probably isn't typical... |
| 17:04:21 | FrankTM | havent checked the patches. rockbox pretty much does what i missed in the original firmware ;) |
| 17:05:07 | leachim6 | not me...I miss lyrics ... :( |
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| 17:07:16 | * | amiconn uses several patches... all of them only exist locally |
| 17:07:32 | leachim6 | amiconn, what do your patches do? |
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| 17:21:28 | leachim6 | where can I get themes from? |
| 17:21:36 | leachim6 | themes.rockbox.org only has 18 themes for iPod video |
| 17:21:51 | Blue_Dude | Currently I'm juggling three different uncommitted patches. Is there a convenient way to generate a diff without having to trim them all out? |
| 17:22:45 | linuxstb | When you do "svn diff", you can specify directories and files to include - but that obviously depends on how the patches interact. Others will tell you to use git... |
| 17:23:16 | Blue_Dude | So I can specify exactly which files I want to diff? |
| 17:23:19 | PaulJam_ | leachim6: you may find additional themes in the wiki (WpsGallery) that havent yet been transferred to the new themes site. |
| 17:23:48 | linuxstb | Blue_Dude: Yes. |
| 17:24:06 | Blue_Dude | That helps. I'll have to look up the syntax on that. |
| 17:24:21 | linuxstb | Simply "svn diff file1 file2 dir1 etc etc" |
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| 17:25:56 | Blue_Dude | I just tried it. That's extremely helpful. Thanks. |
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| 17:34:26 | leachim6 | is there an app for linux that puts the albumart from all my tracks in rockbox format? |
| 17:35:22 | | Quit HellDragon (Client Quit) |
| 17:35:24 | linuxstb | There isn't really a "Rockbox format" - they just need to be .jpg or .bmp files. See the AlbumArt wiki page. |
| 17:35:37 | leachim6 | yeah that's what I mean...for lack of a better term |
| 17:36:06 | leachim6 | what I really mean is extract the jpegs from the id3 and put them in ~/.rockbox/albumart/AlbumName-100x100.bmp |
| 17:36:12 | leachim6 | is there a script for that? |
| 17:36:31 | linuxstb | Read that wiki page ;) |
| 17:36:58 | leachim6 | mhmm |
| 17:37:57 | leachim6 | all the tools are windows only :( |
| 17:38:01 | leachim6 | I don't have a windows machine atm |
| 17:38:11 | linuxstb | No they're not... |
| 17:39:08 | leachim6 | mb I'm reading the wrong section |
| 17:39:59 | leachim6 | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt#How_to_Use_Embedded_iTunes_Cover |
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| 18:21:41 | CIA-37 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21311): Onda VX747: add ability to exit keyboard input using physical keys |
| 18:23:02 | | Join pondlife [50] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) |
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| 18:28:33 | pondlife | kugel: New patch up at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10341 .. |
| 18:28:54 | pondlife | I've still not been able to repro on sim, but this is tidier |
| 18:29:12 | pondlife | It now allows you to run timestretch in mpegplayer ;) |
| 18:29:36 | pondlife | (Although I guess a bit of UI would be nice in there, so you don't have to preset it.) |
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| 18:42:30 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 19:00 |
| 19:04:51 | CIA-37 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21312): Touchscreen targets: add calibration screen + rewrite calibration driver (FS #10295) |
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| 19:33:25 | | Join Genesis [0] (n=genesis@237.249.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:33:29 | Genesis | hi |
| 19:33:35 | bertrik | hi Genesis |
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| 19:50:54 | Horscht | I was wondering: why does the sudoku plugin notsave the scratchpad upon exit? |
| 19:52:09 | JdGordon| | there is a patch on the tracker for that iirc |
| 19:54:39 | Horscht | why would a patch of such importance not be in SVN? ;) |
| 19:55:04 | Horscht | also: you guys impress me with your knowledge what's in flyspray.... |
| 19:55:04 | JdGordon| | because noone has been bothered taking the time to commit it? |
| 19:55:34 | * | JdGordon| hopes Horscht doesnt figure out we just say "there is a patch for that already" to everything and hope they dont actually go checking |
| 19:55:43 | gevaerts | There are much more important things to commit! |
| 19:55:45 | * | gevaerts hides |
| 19:56:06 | amiconn | Because the standard format used by sudoku.rock has no means for storing the scratchpad |
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| 19:57:12 | Horscht | does it also save the current process as an .ss file? |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:03:41 | BryanJacobs | is rockbox going to have a BugDay some time where developers swat some of the flies building up? |
| 20:04:19 | BryanJacobs | I mean, just the "patches" portion of flyspray has 450 entries |
| 20:04:35 | pixelma | amiconn: I'm not sure Rockbox is (still) using the "standard" format. I remember last time this discussion came up, generated Rockbox files couldn't be loaded in Simple Sudoku (if I remember correctly) |
| 20:05:08 | evilnick_7 | BryanJacobs: Isn't that the point of the feature freeze? |
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| 20:06:10 | BryanJacobs | evilnick_7: but in all the time I've been watching Rockbox, flyspray has never really been cleaned up |
| 20:06:16 | JdGordon| | BryanJacobs: we usually use the freeze for that, and even occasionally have a clean up week to go with it, but really its everyone's own time so they use it how they want... if you want to go smash some bugs, go for it :) |
| 20:06:36 | BryanJacobs | JdGordon: how about committing the "power off menu option" patch, then? |
| 20:06:44 | BryanJacobs | I've been hand-applying that one for ages |
| 20:07:08 | evilnick_7 | How does that offer better functionality than is currently done? |
| 20:07:19 | JdGordon| | and now you'll see why patches dont get applied... there is almost never unanimous support for them, which means either pissing people off, or not commiting |
| 20:07:21 | BryanJacobs | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6733 |
| 20:07:40 | BryanJacobs | evilnick_7: you can turn off your DAP immediately - for airplanes and such |
| 20:07:46 | JdGordon| | as can be witnessed in te irc logs and the dev ml... |
| 20:08:19 | BryanJacobs | I guess I just feel that there must be some consensus eventually reached |
| 20:08:20 | | Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") |
| 20:08:35 | BryanJacobs | not unanimous, but there has to be some way to decide either "we're taking this one" or "close the ticket" |
| 20:08:36 | gevaerts | of course, some people try to force the issue by calling other people names, which doesn't help |
| 20:08:37 | JdGordon| | nope |
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| 20:09:08 | pixelma | BryanJacobs: isn't pressing the "off" button even quicker? |
| 20:09:15 | BryanJacobs | pixelma: what off button? |
| 20:09:18 | BryanJacobs | I have an iPod |
| 20:09:27 | evilnick_7 | BryanJacobs: How much actual time is saved with that patch? Maybe one second. And how often would a user need to use it to have that extra 1 second? I can't see the aeroplane argument holding much water to be honest. |
| 20:09:28 | BryanJacobs | I don't think it HAS an off button |
| 20:09:29 | midgey|w | hold play for ~5 sec |
| 20:09:29 | * | JdGordon| would be in favour of shutdown in the menu for the ipods |
| 20:09:36 | pixelma | BryanJacobs: long Play it is on those, I believe |
| 20:09:41 | BryanJacobs | that works?! |
| 20:09:43 | BryanJacobs | well, blimey |
| 20:10:00 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: We have a manual ;) |
| 20:10:08 | * | BryanJacobs remembers that not working in Rockbox way back when |
| 20:10:17 | * | BryanJacobs apparently has become too set in his ways |
| 20:10:44 | BryanJacobs | so then, if we have that, why not close FS #6733 with "just press the power button"? |
| 20:11:03 | JdGordon| | because noone can be bothered |
| 20:11:22 | BryanJacobs | ah. OK then. |
| 20:11:22 | pondlife | Any c200/e200 users fancy testing the timestretch patch on FS #10341? I'd like to commit it soonish. |
| 20:11:29 | * | BryanJacobs goes back to playing with buffering code |
| 20:11:36 | linuxstb | It's also that no single person speaks for Rockbox |
| 20:11:50 | evilnick_7 | BryanJacobs: Out of interest, how had you been turning off your iPod?! :) |
| 20:12:09 | JdGordon| | headphone removal and idle shutdown ftw |
| 20:12:16 | BryanJacobs | evilnick_7: using the menu option |
| 20:12:33 | evilnick_7 | BryanJacobs: Touche :) |
| 20:12:34 | BryanJacobs | I'm also still not sure that holding play turns it off - I think it might just sleep instead of shutdown |
| 20:12:51 | gevaerts | there's no sleep support in rockbox |
| 20:12:52 | evilnick_7 | It's DEFINITELY shutdown (from within Rockbox) |
| 20:13:10 | BryanJacobs | gevaerts: I meant display-off instead of hard shutdown |
| 20:13:24 | BryanJacobs | like where you don't get the splash screen when you press a button |
| 20:13:38 | pixelma | see evilnick_7's reply |
| 20:13:56 | BryanJacobs | I'm just glad now I have an easy way to turn it off |
| 20:14:02 | BryanJacobs | and boy do I feel silly |
| 20:14:42 | JdGordon| | thats ok.... we wont hold it against you or anything...... :D |
| 20:14:56 | gevaerts | Does anyone happen to have a somewhat working working beast bootloader? |
| 20:14:56 | * | linuxstb makes some notes for the mid-term evaluation... |
| 20:15:03 | * | BryanJacobs cringes |
| 20:15:09 | gevaerts | somehat recent... |
| 20:18:10 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 20:18:12 | AlexP | gevaerts: I do, not ure from when |
| 20:18:19 | AlexP | gevaerts: It says v1 |
| 20:18:53 | gevaerts | mine is from just after charging worked I think, and the last time I tried building one it didn't work |
| 20:19:18 | AlexP | On disk it says April IIRC, but not sure when it is really from |
| 20:20:07 | AlexP | gevaerts: I think it is still at aeparker.com/files/nk.bin if you want it |
| 20:20:23 | gevaerts | thanks |
| 20:20:24 | * | AlexP adds an http:// somewhere |
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| 20:29:28 | obo | midgey|w: yes, tis a pain |
| 20:30:10 | obo | I hadn't bothered doing the configure work until it had some actual code worth running :) |
| 20:30:12 | midgey|w | from -community: i've been messing around with the view as well |
| 20:30:51 | midgey|w | right now it's basically a copy of the e200 bootloader but signed correctly |
| 20:31:04 | midgey|w | as in, signed for the view |
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| 20:31:22 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) |
| 20:31:30 | obo | midgey|w: yeah, I've just been doing that with a bash script for my testing so far |
| 20:31:36 | midgey|w | i have dummy files in the target tree too |
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| 20:32:52 | obo | midgey|w: that was actually my task after submission for gsoc, except I used a completely fake google/dummy target |
| 20:33:23 | midgey|w | is there anything that needs to be done to run the code you put in the wiki? |
| 20:33:36 | midgey|w | i added GPIO_SET_BITWISE(GPIOD_OUTPUT_VAL, 1<<8); to main-pp and nothing seemed to happen |
| 20:34:26 | obo | midgey|w: I commented out a lot of the existing functions - lcd_init, but left kernel_init there so I would have sleep functions |
| 20:35:03 | midgey|w | ah i see |
| 20:35:18 | midgey|w | well maybe i'll mess around with that later |
| 20:35:30 | obo | I'm then running all my code before the adc_init line, with a reboot function before it gets to that point |
| 20:35:46 | midgey|w | that's likely my problem |
| 20:36:02 | CIA-37 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21313): Make some asm() statements volatile |
| 20:37:09 | midgey|w | you said you thought you found the lcd init code, any luck? |
| 20:38:17 | obo | I've found some lcd init code, the section which sets up the GPIOs and touches two of the LCD registers, but there must be more to setup the lcd controller itself somewhere |
| 20:39:09 | obo | but since I'm running my code after the OF bootloader all that code has already been run.. so I doubt it would have any effect if it was run again? |
| 20:40:51 | kugel_ | pondlife: just add the pitchscreen to the plugin api |
| 20:41:02 | kugel_ | I cannot test right now, but will do later |
| 20:42:34 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:42:36 | funman | bertrik: i have lcd output on c200v2 although the colors are wrong. rockbox loads from SD and quickly shows a "white screen" after showing the logo (only backlight on, no pixels visible) |
| 20:43:24 | pondlife | kugel_: It's not that I aimed to add timestretch to mpegplayer, more that I was surprised ir worked so well (on sim at least). I really just want to know if that patch fixes your particular problem. |
| 20:43:41 | bertrik | funman, how does the white screen look, is it a kind of uneven fade towards the white screen? |
| 20:44:36 | bertrik | the e200v1 does that when booting to the OF, I think it's caused by lack of screen refresh by the LCD controller |
| 20:45:24 | CIA-37 | New commit by bluebrother (r21314): Clean up several debug messages. |
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| 20:48:50 | funman_ | no it's not white, it more looks like all pixels are black |
| 20:48:55 | bluebrother | domonoky: thoughts about this systrace try? http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rbutil-systrace-1.diff |
| 20:49:25 | funman_ | i tried to add delays in the lcd driver, disable the data cache, without effect |
| 20:49:39 | | Quit funman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:49:51 | funman_ | if someone is going to devcon and can come in dijon on the way i can give you the c200v2 |
| 20:50:40 | funman_ | but then i'll have to do bugfixing for other targets, so in fact no :P |
| 20:50:43 | bertrik | I think no french people are planning to come to devcon |
| 20:51:33 | | Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 20:53:06 | bertrik | funman_, I hope to hack a bit on the e200v2 radio problem with domonoky's e200v2 |
| 20:53:32 | domonoky | bluebrother: first look at the code looks fine. lets try it :-) |
| 20:53:55 | bertrik | I'm quite convinced now that it's some kind of radio initialisation problem, not a communication problem with the radio |
| 20:54:21 | bluebrother | I'm a bit unsure if we should try to get it into the next rbutil release. OTOH it might be really helpful when users have problems. |
| 20:54:32 | bertrik | the giant delays that people use in the communication with the radio must have some other side-effect |
| 20:55:50 | domonoky | bluebrother: this debugbuffer string could get very long.. perhaps there is a better way to store the history ? |
| 20:56:16 | | Quit intrados (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:56:22 | bluebrother | if you have a better idea let me know :) |
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| 20:56:58 | bluebrother | I wasn't too fond of that QString myself but haven't had a better idea. |
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| 21:00 |
| 21:00:30 | domonoky | bluebrother: maybe use a QStringList and remove entrys from the beginning, when it gets "too long" |
| 21:00:46 | | Quit BryanJacobs ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 21:01:15 | bluebrother | that would be a possibility but (a) what is "too long" and (b) how likely is it to remove important entries from the beginning? |
| 21:01:37 | bluebrother | also, how likely is that list to become too big on a standard PC? |
| 21:02:39 | domonoky | depends on how much we log.. i will now try it and see how long a "normal" log is. |
| 21:03:09 | bluebrother | just installed a build, pdf manual and fonts. Saved log is ~8k |
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| 21:06:02 | * | domonoky has to rebuild rbutil to get all qDebug() messages :-) |
| 21:06:10 | bluebrother | hehe :) |
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| 21:08:37 | domonoky | bluebrother: but it looks very usefull. if the log doesnt get too long, we should put it into svn before release. |
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| 21:10:08 | domonoky | we could even open the log window automatically when the progresslogger gets a error. (but that open it too often. i think aborting a install also counts as error) |
| 21:10:38 | bluebrother | I would rather not do that but leave it to the user to use the "Troubleshoot" menu entry |
| 21:11:11 | bluebrother | IMO a log of 50k should be safe on current machines. rbutil itself has a 10MB binary, so that's not much. |
| 21:11:34 | domonoky | yes, even 1MB of log is ok. |
| 21:12:32 | bluebrother | yep. |
| 21:12:48 | bluebrother | though a normal use shouldn't get that big |
| 21:13:25 | domonoky | can we make that log window automatically refresh ? |
| 21:15:09 | bluebrother | not sure. At least not easily. |
| 21:16:12 | domonoky | it could either check for new text every second, or we somehow have to notice it on new entrys. |
| 21:16:53 | bluebrother | but is that needed at all? My idea was to have this so we can instruct users to go to that dialog, save its output and post it somewhere if we need to debug things |
| 21:17:44 | bluebrother | we could replace the qDebug() calls with something different later that is a complete singleton class. That would allow auto-refresh and stuff easily. |
| 21:18:24 | domonoky | thats also oki. but then you can just create the windows on the stack and exec() it, then you dont need the OnClose Signal etc. |
| 21:18:25 | bluebrother | polling just for auto-updating seems a bit overkill to me. |
| 21:19:05 | bluebrother | true, but not requiring to close is isn't bad either :) |
| 21:21:52 | domonoky | its a bit halfway at moment. if it can stay open, it should either auto-update or be a completly independent window. |
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| 21:26:20 | bluebrother | well, fortunately the latter is rather easy. |
| 21:26:24 | domonoky | bluebrother: you cant click the refresh button while a progress logger is open.. |
| 21:26:35 | domonoky | at least at moment :-) |
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| 21:27:52 | bluebrother | hmm, indeed that doesn't work even when making the window top-leve. |
| 21:27:57 | bluebrother | *top-level |
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| 21:29:22 | bluebrother | making that window modal is also an option, but that makes the refresh button somewhat superfluous. |
| 21:34:37 | domonoky | making it autoupdate is also not too hard. implement a small QThread which just waits on a static QSemaphore and then calls refresh. the debug function then just flushes the semaphore when it adds a text. |
| 21:35:50 | bluebrother | hmm. I'm not sure if it would be better to replace the whole qDebug() stuff with our own tracing at some later point. |
| 21:35:53 | domonoky | or instead of the QThread, just start a function which does the same with: QtConcurrent::run() |
| 21:37:27 | bluebrother | hmm. Maybe its best to wait with that after the next release and polish it a bit more first. |
| 21:37:28 | domonoky | using qDebug() benfits from Qt internal qDebug messages.. |
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| 21:38:29 | bluebrother | internal debug messages? I haven't seen any. Besides, my idea was to have a program flow trace, not any Qt internal stuff. We can still use qDebug() for that later. |
| 21:39:22 | domonoky | ah, i thought more of a logging mechanism instead of program flow. |
| 21:40:31 | domonoky | my log is 186KB: build+autodetection+voicefile. so it can grow quite big, but it shouldnt be really a problem. |
| 21:40:35 | bluebrother | no. If we really need detailed logging we can use qDebug() in conjunction with a debug build. But my idea was to easily show what's happening −− f.e. it would have been interesting for the 404 issues. |
| 21:41:36 | domonoky | my log is cut-off at then end ? does QString have a size limitation ? :-) |
| 21:42:04 | bluebrother | another option would of course be to write it to the disk immediately, but I'd like to avoid writing to the disk more than needed. |
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| 21:44:50 | bluebrother | hmm. It's weird to see "encoding <foo> to <foo>.mp3" when building the voice file for a non-archos target. |
| 21:49:18 | domonoky | bluebrother: unfortunatly thats from history. the buildsystem does it the same. (i think voicefont wants it this way) |
| 21:49:51 | bluebrother | can't find anything about a size limit for QString. Maybe some of the debug output isn't using qDebug() (like voicefont)? |
| 21:50:39 | | Quit biengo (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:50:58 | Horscht | what is commit 21307 suposed to be doing, by the way? |
| 21:51:05 | domonoky | my first log is cut off in the middle of the word "encoding" ... now trying to repoduce it. |
| 21:51:12 | Horscht | "show in the main menu that there is nothing to resume to stop the annoying "nothing to resume" splash" |
| 21:52:00 | Horscht | resume playback is still in the main menu, even if the "current playlist" does not have any entries nor is there a song to resume... |
| 21:52:08 | bluebrother | Horscht: you might be interested in that thread: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2009-06/index.shtml#175 |
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| 21:57:26 | Horscht | so... it was reverted? I always thought that would show up in the commit section as well |
| 21:59:04 | | Join Zambezi [0] (i=Zulu@bnc.dotbnc.se) |
| 21:59:24 | bluebrother | it wasn't reverted yet. Reverting was proposed. |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:31 | Horscht | in that case: it is not working anyways. |
| 22:02:21 | Horscht | now it says "Resume Playback". Pressing play or selecting that option brings a small "Loading" message, then nothing happens |
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| 22:07:22 | Llorean | Horscht: You've got something else wrong if that's happening. |
| 22:07:25 | Horscht | oh, wait... I actualy had to create a small playlists and let that one finish playing... |
| 22:08:23 | Horscht | so, basicaly what I had was: an empty playlist making rockbox think it has something to resume when it actualy didn't. So pressing play would not do anything except for the small "Loading" dialog |
| 22:08:32 | | Quit HBK (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 22:08:52 | evilnick_7 | Was it a playlist that had come to the end of the last song? |
| 22:10:11 | | Quit funman ("leaving") |
| 22:12:14 | Horscht | no, it was a playlist i manualy removed all songs from |
| 22:12:43 | Horscht | a playlist that had come to an end actualy showed me "Nothing to Resume" in the mainmenu |
| 22:13:26 | Horscht | but in my first case, there was *nothing* that actualy told me that there was nothing to resume. |
| 22:13:34 | | Quit wark (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:14:34 | | Join HBK [0] (n=hbk@pool-71-96-74-73.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:14:41 | | Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") |
| 22:15:42 | Horscht | If I was a blind user I would not have known... |
| 22:20:18 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:22:35 | | Quit dmb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:22:38 | | Join JdGordon| [0] (i=836b0052@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 22:23:02 | Lear | Horscht: I think that behavior is the same as before the change... |
| 22:24:26 | * | Horscht builds 21306 |
| 22:24:41 | | Join tapiocapudding [0] (n=chatzill@209.195.235.180) |
| 22:26:49 | Lear | Yep, the old code would only show the splash if resume index is -1, otherwise try to resume. The new code shows "Nothing to resume" directly in the menu if resume index < 0... |
| 22:27:36 | tapiocapudding | OK, a couple of questions: I've been trying to change some of the system strings, and the guide in the wiki recommends setting up a "build environment." I did some google searches but still can't come up with any other info on this. What is a build environment, and how do I go about setting it up? |
| 22:28:08 | Lear | Check the developer docs on the wiki. |
| 22:28:42 | | Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") |
| 22:28:46 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 22:28:47 | Mikachu | tapiocapudding: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToCompiling |
| 22:29:46 | Mikachu | fwiw i think it's a bit weird that the playlist is erased when the last track is finished |
| 22:29:59 | Mikachu | every other player just starts the same playlist from the beginning if you press play again |
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| 22:30:35 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (i=thunderc@persistence.flat.devzero.co.uk) |
| 22:31:35 | JdGordon| | Mikachu: if we did it like that, we would need some other way to erase the playlist so you could add new tracks without having the old ones played (assumign you didnt want them) |
| 22:31:47 | Llorean | JdGordon|: Uhm, you erase the playlist by stopping |
| 22:31:50 | Llorean | Which can still be resumed |
| 22:31:56 | Llorean | That has nothing to do with end-of-playlist behaviour |
| 22:32:03 | | Join raps [0] (i=raps@unaffiliated/raps) |
| 22:32:32 | Llorean | Mikachu's suggestion wouldn't interfere with the ability to insert into a new playlist at all, really, since that just depends on being in the "stopped" state (which still has a populated playlist until you insert something new) |
| 22:33:29 | Llorean | In fact, we still keep track of what was in the previous playlist when playback ends for end of playlist (you can view it in the playlist viewer I believe) |
| 22:33:55 | Llorean | I think the "Nothing to Resume" mostly dates back to when we didn't keep track of what was in the playlist after it ended, now that we do it kinda makes sense to allow "Resume" to re-start it. |
| 22:36:03 | Mikachu | yeah as long as it's stopped, inserting something removes the old playlist, even while playing there's the "play next" entry which queues the currently playing and inserts, so it is deleted when it finishes |
| 22:36:32 | Llorean | Mikachu: I'd say post a patch for your idea, and get feedback |
| 22:36:57 | | Join Harryy [0] (i=Harry@botters/harryy) |
| 22:37:43 | gevaerts | hm, that would also make the "Nothing to Resume" debate mostly go away. It would become pretty rare... |
| 22:37:54 | | Join PaulJam [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3035.gwdg.de) |
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| 22:39:58 | | Part Harryy |
| 22:40:15 | | Quit tchan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:41:45 | Mikachu | Llorean: while i haven't looked at the playlist code in two years, thinking about it gives me shivers |
| 22:41:54 | Mikachu | is it better now? :) |
| 22:42:00 | gevaerts | yes |
| 22:42:13 | JdGordon| | no |
| 22:42:17 | | Quit kugel_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:42:18 | Mikachu | heh |
| 22:42:28 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: shut up! Don't discourage people! |
| 22:42:31 | Mikachu | :)) |
| 22:42:34 | JdGordon| | sorry |
| 22:42:36 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:42:37 | | Join HBK [0] (n=hbk@pool-71-96-74-73.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:42:44 | JdGordon| | but yeahm, what you want to do should be pretty straight forward |
| 22:43:53 | | Join tchan [0] (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 22:44:11 | Horscht | also, reagrding the issue I had: I can't seem to reproduce such a playlist. I must have broken something the first time around when I was deleting entries from the playlist. Now I am not able to realy delete the last entry from the playlist... |
| 22:44:39 | Horscht | disregard my previous ramblings then |
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| 22:55:17 | | Join Ubuntuxer [0] (n=johannes@dslb-088-078-113-127.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:55:18 | pixelma | wouldn't Mikachu's idea remove the possibility to start a new playlist by e.g. "Insert shuffled" on a folder, or am I misunderstanding? |
| 22:55:35 | Mikachu | pixelma: if you are in 'stopped' it will already start a new playlist |
| 22:55:50 | Mikachu | or do you always skip to the last track when you want to make a new playlist? |
| 22:55:52 | | Quit HBK () |
| 22:55:54 | Mikachu | that would be a horrible ui :) |
| 22:56:15 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 22:56:27 | pixelma | hmm? |
| 22:56:52 | Mikachu | you are listening to album A, after 3 songs you decide to listen to album B instead, what do you do? |
| 22:57:40 | pixelma | ok, so that's only for the case you press the "Resume" button or the menu entry? |
| 22:58:06 | Mikachu | yeah |
| 22:58:17 | | Quit x72 () |
| 22:58:22 | pixelma | alright, there was my misunderstanding |
| 22:58:46 | pixelma | I thought it would also have an influence on creating a new playlist |
| 22:59:14 | Mikachu | that must be handled somewhere else since inserting in stop mode already works even though resume_index isn't -1 |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:23 | pixelma | sounds ok then (as I imagine it now)... and I'm somehow reminded of the c200 keymap patch... :\ |
| 23:01:10 | Mikachu | heh, running make reconf also prints the "you should run 'make reconf'." warning |
| 23:04:35 | | Join n00b81 [0] (n=taylor@unaffiliated/n00b81) |
| 23:06:41 | Mikachu | that seemed to be easy enough |
| 23:06:42 | | Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5/20090612072440]") |
| 23:07:00 | | Part n00b81 ("Leaving") |
| 23:10:54 | | Join grimman [0] (n=sco@h165n8c1o1099.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 23:11:11 | bertrik | funman, did anyone ever look at the built-in bootloader of the as3525? |
| 23:11:27 | grimman | Hallo guys. I manually initiated a database update on my iPod, and it burned through the battery like candy and after a charge it goes at it again. What gives? |
| 23:11:28 | | Join dmb [0] (n=dmb@unaffiliated/dmb) |
| 23:11:42 | funman | bertrik: daniel_at had dumped the content of the ROM when our bootloader was not finished |
| 23:12:13 | bertrik | we don't really need to know about it, but I'm still curious |
| 23:12:51 | bertrik | I noticed that some ams sansas seem to have some kind of marker at a pin of the flash chip, not just the e200v2 ones |
| 23:13:50 | grimman | Alright. Nobody knows, fair enough. However, does anyone know if I can abort a database update? |
| 23:14:39 | linuxstb | grimman: You need to wait more than 2 minutes for people to answer questions... |
| 23:15:13 | grimman | I waited almost 2.5 minutes. :P |
| 23:15:26 | grimman | Besides, if anyone DID know, they're unlikely to type that slow in a nerd channel. |
| 23:15:28 | grimman | :D |
| 23:15:55 | Mikachu | do what you want with it http://comm.it.cx/?p=rockbox-svn.git;a=commitdiff;h=015f563982dd4b0e "Resume last playlist even if we reached the end." |
| 23:16:00 | AlexP | grimman: People aren't constantly staring at the channel just hoping for a question to answer |
| 23:16:05 | linuxstb | But anyway, what do you mean by "burned through the battery like candy" ? |
| 23:16:17 | AlexP | grimman: Also, people are also in the middle of other conversations |
| 23:16:44 | AlexP | linuxstb: I guess quickly? |
| 23:16:52 | Horscht | wouldn't clearing the settings help? |
| 23:17:01 | JdGordon| | Mikachu: I guarwentee nothing will happen if you dont put it on the tracker |
| 23:17:02 | bertrik | funman, for example, both the clip and the fuze have those markings |
| 23:17:08 | grimman | Also, if anyone here has any control over the changes page, "Rockbox now supports scripting using the LUA language" is slightly wrong. The scripting language is called Lua. It's not an acronym. :P |
| 23:17:15 | grimman | AlexP: Please calm down. |
| 23:17:16 | Mikachu | JdGordon|: yeah i figured you'd say that :) |
| 23:17:23 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 23:17:31 | bertrik | funman, do you where to get that dump or how to contact daniel_at? |
| 23:17:33 | Horscht | i.e. shut down ipod, start ipod, as soon as the backlight turns on showing the apple logo: flip the hold switch grimman |
| 23:17:47 | grimman | linuxstb: Pretty much that I started the update and like 30 minutes later the battery was completely drained. |
| 23:18:00 | AlexP | grimman: What? I'm not remotely uncalm - I was just trying to explain to you why 2 minutes is a slightly short time to expect an answer. |
| 23:18:11 | grimman | AlexP: In a rude manner, no less. |
| 23:18:23 | Mikachu | grimman: you're being extremely oversensitive |
| 23:18:29 | grimman | Horscht: Won't that just slap me into the Apple firmware? |
| 23:18:31 | AlexP | grimman: Excuse me? Care to point out where I was rude? |
| 23:18:39 | grimman | Mikachu: Not at all. |
| 23:18:43 | grimman | AlexP: The mannerism. |
| 23:18:49 | AlexP | ... |
| 23:18:55 | funman | bertrik: i'll give you his jabber id in PM, but i don't know if he's active on rockbox anymore |
| 23:18:56 | Horscht | no, if you flip the switch when the backlight has turned on, you will clear rockbox settings |
| 23:18:58 | linuxstb | grimman: How many tracks do you have on your device? 30 minutes seems a long time... |
| 23:19:07 | grimman | linuxstb: Seems a very long time. |
| 23:19:21 | grimman | Especially since it already had a database since before I added a couple of tracks yesterday. |
| 23:19:35 | grimman | Figured I'd update at work -> keep listening. iPod did not agree. |
| 23:19:35 | Horscht | linuxstb, 30 minutes is pretty much what I always got when building the database on my ipod |
| 23:19:46 | grimman | Horscht: It starts from scratch? |
| 23:19:48 | AlexP | Horscht: Really? Which ipod? |
| 23:19:51 | Horscht | That's why I asked for a PC based tool to do that |
| 23:20:09 | Horscht | AlexP, 80GB Ipod Video 5.5G with ~ 54GB Mp3s on it |
| 23:20:23 | Mikachu | Horscht: the rockbox simulator? |
| 23:20:35 | AlexP | Horscht: That's a bit mad :) |
| 23:21:03 | Horscht | granted it got quite a bit faster with dircache enabled, but it's still pretty slow on my ipod |
| 23:21:09 | AlexP | That's very slow |
| 23:21:10 | Mikachu | why would you buy an 80GB mp3 player if not to put 80GB of mp3s on it? |
| 23:21:18 | | Join n00b81 [0] (n=taylor@unaffiliated/n00b81) |
| 23:21:21 | JdGordon| | I tihnk there is a PC app to generate the db files |
| 23:21:27 | JdGordon| | either in the wiki or tracker.... |
| 23:21:27 | | Part n00b81 ("Leaving") |
| 23:21:31 | grimman | Mikachu: Because FLAC exists! :P |
| 23:21:39 | Horscht | JdGordon| i know |
| 23:21:49 | AlexP | Mikachu: Indeed so, but there is something else at play - I have a 120 GB (albeit beast) which is full and takes nothing like that |
| 23:21:51 | Horscht | that's what I am now using to build my database ;) |
| 23:22:06 | Mikachu | well, i have a 2GB ipod nano so i obviously have no experience in the matter :) |
| 23:22:18 | Horscht | Mikachu, because a 40GB Device wouldn't hold 54GB |
| 23:22:36 | JdGordon| | it would if you use light weight bits :) |
| 23:22:44 | Horscht | and it was a lot easier to find a used 80GB Ipod than a 60GB one |
| 23:23:10 | JdGordon| | which reminds me to buy a back plate for his 5.5g |
| 23:23:16 | JdGordon| | + /me |
| 23:23:48 | Horscht | AlexP, as I said. I mentioned this issue quite often before. Truly, it takes only ~25 -30 minutes with dircache *disabled* |
| 23:23:48 | Mikachu | that wouldn't work with /me ;) |
| 23:24:00 | Horscht | with dircache enabled it "only" takes ~10 Minutes |
| 23:24:25 | Horscht | which was still too long for my taste |
| 23:24:35 | AlexP | Horscht: I believe you :) |
| 23:24:46 | Mikachu | JdGordon|: want me to assign it to someone in particular? |
| 23:25:30 | Llorean | Dircache shouldn't significantly alter database generation times, should it? |
| 23:25:38 | Horscht | And suffice to say: I would have never thought that dircache would affect the database in any way. I Always assumed from the description it would only affect people using the filebrowser |
| 23:25:44 | grimman | So... does it resume a database build where if stopped if I reboot it (or, in this case, it runs out of juice)? |
| 23:25:52 | grimman | Or does it start from scratch? |
| 23:27:08 | JdGordon| | Mikachu: nup |
| 23:27:15 | funman | bertrik: what do you mean by 'marking' ? |
| 23:27:16 | Horscht | thanks to FS 9371 I no longer have to build the database on my ipod |
| 23:27:17 | JdGordon| | Llorean: yeah, I was tihning the same... |
| 23:27:21 | | Quit Shadz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 23:27:32 | grimman | ... |
| 23:27:37 | JdGordon| | it would stop the directory listing coming from the disk though |
| 23:27:46 | Horscht | grimman, i am not entirely sure what you are asking... |
| 23:28:00 | Llorean | JdGordon|: Yeah, but since the disk is spinning nearly constantly, and that should be a very small percentage of time used anyway, it shouldn't change it from 25-30 down to 10 |
| 23:28:11 | JdGordon| | yeah |
| 23:28:15 | bertrik | funman, some white stuff also used to write numbers on the PCB |
| 23:28:19 | grimman | If an update is in progress and is interrupted for some reason. |
| 23:28:21 | grimman | With me? |
| 23:28:29 | grimman | And I start the iPod again. |
| 23:28:47 | grimman | It starts the process again. I can feel it, the entire device is vibrating. |
| 23:29:08 | grimman | But does it start from zero or does it pick up where it left off? |
| 23:29:23 | Horscht | that's a good question. I have never tried. |
| 23:29:28 | grimman | Well... |
| 23:29:28 | bertrik | near pin 9 of the flash chip, see for example http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2007/11/sandisk-sansa-clip-disassembled.php |
| 23:29:40 | grimman | I sort of need to know. Either that or how to stop it from restarting the process. |
| 23:29:43 | Horscht | doesn't it show you a progress status message or something? |
| 23:29:48 | bertrik | and http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2008/03/sandisk-sansa-fuze-disassembly.php |
| 23:29:52 | funman | bertrik: have you looked at ONIF (Nand Flash specification) to see which pin it is ? |
| 23:29:58 | grimman | No. It does it in the background, and it hogs _all_ the CPU. So I can |
| 23:30:02 | Mikachu | JdGordon|, pixelma: 10343 |
| 23:30:06 | AlexP | Horscht: There is one in the debug screen |
| 23:30:07 | grimman | 't listen to music. |
| 23:30:15 | Horscht | I remember seing a status message telling me "XXXXX files found" counting up |
| 23:30:56 | funman | bertrik: ah i can see it clearly |
| 23:31:06 | grimman | Rockbox autostarting the database build seems to have rendered my iPod completely useless anyway. Boot device -> wait for battery to drain. Doesn't even take very long. |
| 23:31:09 | Horscht | then again, it has been months since I used it on my Ipod thanks to the PC app, which only takes ~ 1 Minute building the database on my PC |
| 23:31:09 | grimman | Super awesome. :< |
| 23:31:37 | JdGordon| | then plug into the computer and edit the config.cfg so it doesnt start in the db |
| 23:31:38 | bertrik | it seems pin 9 is marked, which is CE1# |
| 23:31:49 | Horscht | grimman, i think you can delete all the tagcahce files |
| 23:31:52 | JdGordon| | and anyway.. cant you back out of the db build screen? |
| 23:32:13 | grimman | Horscht: I'm going to have to play with it some more tomorrow. |
| 23:32:40 | AlexP | Horscht: If the PC is ~25x faster I guess that isn't too suprising |
| 23:32:52 | grimman | It's either that or sleep, and I value my ability to stay awake at work. ;) |
| 23:32:55 | | Quit tapiocapudding ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.9/2009040821]") |
| 23:33:31 | Horscht | as in, connect the ipod to your pc, browse to .rockbox and delete all "database*" files except database.ignore |
| 23:33:47 | grimman | Will give it a whirl real quick then. |
| 23:33:48 | Horscht | AlexP, I didn't say it's surprising, I am just saying it's nice ;) |
| 23:34:00 | grimman | Is that supposed to murder the autostarting db building? |
| 23:34:25 | Horscht | I assume it deletes all the database process and the whole initiation. |
| 23:34:58 | grimman | Bah... I'll just delete the entire directory and start fresh. |
| 23:35:00 | AlexP | Horscht: Yes :) - I more meant that if the PC takes a minute I'm not surprised that the player takes 25 minutes |
| 23:35:18 | Horscht | well, I didn't time it.... |
| 23:35:43 | Horscht | but my PC clock never passes 2 minutes or more, so I said 1 minute |
| 23:38:01 | Horscht | in fact I have build myself a batch script that syncs my Ipod to my local music folder, resizes the coverart to 200x200, builds a database and creates a playist of all the songs :D |
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| 23:40:56 | | Quit Ubuntuxer ("Leaving.") |
| 23:41:33 | | Quit funman ("g'night") |
| 23:41:40 | Horscht | only issue I have with it: the File structure must be exactly the same on the sourcedrive and destination drive, else I can't resize the album art properly (haven't found a way to "strip" paths in cmd) |
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| 23:43:41 | | Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@rockbox/developer/saratoga) |
| 23:46:27 | saratoga | its surprising that the PC is so much faster since I would expect tag parsing to be disk limited |
| 23:46:39 | | Part pondlife |
| 23:47:38 | Horscht | well, no idea realy |
| 23:48:29 | Llorean | saratoga: Maybe database generation still needs a lot of optimizing? |
| 23:48:37 | | Quit bluebrother (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 23:48:57 | Horscht | anyways, I am rushing off to bed now. |
| 23:48:58 | Horscht | nn |
| 23:50:20 | saratoga | i just tried on my sansa and did 2500 songs in less then a minute |
| 23:50:44 | Horscht | on my ipod it actualy starts realy fast |
| 23:50:53 | | Quit robin0800 ("Leaving") |
| 23:50:57 | Horscht | pretty much the same speed as you just mentioned |
| 23:51:34 | Horscht | but as the filecount gets higher it *realy* slows to a crawl, adding only a few (~6) songs per 1 or 2 seconds |
| 23:51:51 | | Join robin0800 [0] (n=robin080@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust436.brig.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:52:19 | Horscht | I think at the end it's only 3-4 songs... |
| 23:53:00 | Horscht | but now seriously: good night :) |
| 23:53:45 | saratoga | check whats with those songs |
| 23:55:15 | Llorean | saratoga: There have been other reports of database slowing as it gets to later files |
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