00:00:53 | notlistening | just an idea though |
00:01:02 | | Part CaptainKwel_ |
00:01:25 | notlistening | seen it implemented else wwhere and it was useful but that device did not have speech feedback |
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00:10:17 | notlistening | domonoky, can you direct me to the place on the wiki where it instructs you to make you own voice menu files as i want to try and test the encoder independently from rbutil |
00:11:01 | domonoky | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceBuilding |
00:12:26 | domonoky | you have to edit voice.pl and maybe configure to add your tts engine before, ofcourse :-) |
00:13:49 | notlistening | thanks it was just to test the encoder as it is failing and wanted to get the output on the command line from the encoder on the files tthat are failing |
00:14:32 | domonoky | did you check if the wavfile really is created ? |
00:14:59 | notlistening | yup wav file is created with correct fileame and contents |
00:15:18 | notlistening | and the .talk file is created but from there i am a little bit stumped |
00:15:53 | notlistening | changing the remove extension option also stops it from failing :P |
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00:26:56 | CIA-71 | New commit by bagder (r21481): support sdl as arch, and make "lethal" errors stop the looping in runclient.sh |
00:30:12 | rasher | Bagder: probably should have scrubbed runclient.sh |
00:30:21 | Bagder | oh |
00:30:22 | Bagder | haha |
00:30:24 | Bagder | me fix |
00:30:36 | saratoga | i've still got that running from the other day, do i need to restart if i want to be available to test? |
00:30:58 | Bagder | no, it still participates fine when I start the server |
00:31:22 | CIA-71 | New commit by bagder (r21482): eeek, clear off my dummy data |
00:31:54 | Bagder | but now we can add 'sdl' as arch as well |
00:31:58 | | Quit AlexP (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
00:32:11 | Bagder | and it would be nice with a few clients having that enabled |
00:32:18 | * | gevaerts updates |
00:34:21 | gevaerts | Bagder: rb.hostname.be should now have sdl as well |
00:34:27 | Bagder | thanks |
00:34:44 | Bagder | I started one myself too and it has sdl as well |
00:34:46 | gevaerts | and a different password. I hope you don't check that yet |
00:34:59 | Bagder | nope |
00:43:46 | JdGordon| | Bagder: if you want another client feel free to use rbclient's account on my comp to do whatever you want with... |
00:44:26 | Bagder | thanks, I'll give that a go tomorrow or so |
00:45:09 | Bagder | having 9 new clients still is slower than the 20+ running in the old system ... :-) |
00:45:27 | JdGordon| | cut down the amount of builds to run? |
00:45:33 | JdGordon| | duh :p |
00:45:34 | Bagder | yeah, I'll do that |
00:45:39 | linuxstb | Remove all ipods... |
00:46:05 | Bagder | but with sdl just added, it'll be great to see a full run complete first |
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00:46:47 | Mikachu | do you have any stats on how many of each are actually downloaded regularly? |
00:46:52 | rasher | Bagder: It doesn't seem to be connecting here |
00:47:04 | Bagder | no, the server isn't running |
00:47:19 | Bagder | I'm done for tonight |
00:47:24 | rasher | That would explain it |
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00:48:04 | Bagder | Mikachu: yeps, and it's quite a lot of the most popular ones at least |
00:48:43 | Bagder | sansa e200, 7400 times during June so far |
00:49:00 | Bagder | off the build server this is |
00:49:10 | Mikachu | ah |
00:49:25 | Bagder | I don't have any stats for the download mirrors |
00:50:08 | * | Bagder runs off to bed |
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00:54:27 | Mikachu | hm, vmware image downloads have stayed fairly constant from me, around 40-50 unique ips per month |
00:54:49 | scorche|sh | speaking of, when i get back, i should probably try to get the new one down in size and replace it.. |
00:55:02 | Mikachu | make sure you let me know so i can update mine |
00:55:27 | fenugrec | I formatted my Fuze (form the OF), compiled a bootloader, copied fuzeA.bin, extract rockbox-full.zip to the fuze ; on bootup Rockbox show but says "loading firmware... file not found" |
00:55:27 | Mikachu | it's from february '07 (the file timestamp) :) |
00:55:36 | fenugrec | This is with SVN 21478 |
00:56:45 | fenugrec | what's missing ? |
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01:00 |
01:00:06 | fenugrec | would running fsck.vfat from linux check more things than chkdsk.exe on windows ? |
01:01:36 | Torne | not particularly. |
01:01:45 | Torne | i couldn't tell you they were definately equivalent |
01:01:53 | Torne | but i'd be stunned if there was much in it. |
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01:02:07 | Torne | FAT is just not that complicated, there's only a small number of well-understood things to check |
01:02:50 | Torne | it wouldn't hurt though if you had a linux box around |
01:02:59 | fenugrec | I'd have to reboot, is all |
01:03:31 | fenugrec | for some reason I can't remember, I'm compiling Rockbox from colinux under winXP ... |
01:03:43 | Mikachu | fsck.vfat is very bad |
01:03:53 | Torne | chkdsk in NT-based windows is a perfectly good check, anyway. |
01:04:01 | Torne | unlike old chkdsk :) |
01:04:04 | Mikachu | when you have errors and run it once and fix everything, running it again still finds errors |
01:04:14 | Mikachu | last time i had to run it three times |
01:04:33 | Torne | Mikachu: oh, it's just not very bright about how it checks, some problems mask other problems and it dosn't re-evaluate it |
01:04:47 | Torne | if you run it until it says it's ok it's probably just as good |
01:04:57 | Mikachu | very trustworthy :) |
01:05:16 | fenugrec | ok... but I guess there probably was no problem since it was freshly formatted, and chkdsk didn't find a thing |
01:05:23 | fenugrec | so what could the problem be ? |
01:05:57 | Torne | unfortunately i know nothing about how the fuze boots so i can't really help you there :) |
01:07:49 | fenugrec | hmmmmm |
01:07:57 | fenugrec | it's not the most descriptive of error messages, either |
01:08:47 | Torne | presumably it's the rockbox bootloader printing that, so it's gotten that far at leat |
01:09:02 | fenugrec | indeed, and I can still boot to the OF |
01:09:07 | fenugrec | so I'm not bricked yet |
01:09:10 | Torne | so it must be the main rockbox binary it |
01:09:13 | Torne | it's unable to load. |
01:09:35 | fenugrec | it's the third bootloader + rockbox build I do, and the first to fail... I just don't understand |
01:10:16 | fenugrec | I notice there's a file, .rockbox/bootlader-fuze.sansa |
01:10:24 | Mikachu | the others were on other devices? |
01:10:25 | fenugrec | isn't that redundant ? |
01:10:32 | fenugrec | No, this same Fuze |
01:10:35 | | Quit at0m (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
01:10:37 | gevaerts | did you run make clean properly? |
01:10:44 | fenugrec | yes |
01:10:59 | fenugrec | started a new build/ directory as well |
01:11:19 | rasher | Maybe you can just use an older bootloader? |
01:11:23 | Torne | is this based on significantly newer code than last time? :) |
01:11:49 | fenugrec | totally too late, I dont' have any of the older ones. I'd have to revert to a previous code revision |
01:12:06 | Torne | how old was your previous revision, though? :) |
01:12:24 | fenugrec | hm, was around 211xx |
01:12:31 | fenugrec | a few weeks |
01:12:37 | rasher | Then it's not really too late, is it? Honestly though, I don't know anything about the Fuze, so maybe you do need an updated bootloader. |
01:13:09 | fenugrec | yes, I was trying with a fresh-built BL from 21478 |
01:13:49 | Torne | try the release bootloader? or the new bootloader with a release build? |
01:14:04 | gevaerts | fenugrec: I definitely don't have a .rockbox/bootlader-fuze.sansa file on a fresh build |
01:14:04 | fenugrec | Fuze isn't released yet I fear |
01:14:13 | fenugrec | !! |
01:14:17 | gevaerts | r21463 |
01:14:17 | Torne | ah. too many platforms for me to keep track :) |
01:14:41 | fenugrec | ok, maybe my SVN tree is hosed |
01:14:48 | * | gevaerts tests some more |
01:15:13 | fenugrec | gevaerts: do you run tools/configure after building the bootloader and before running "make zip" / fullzip ? |
01:15:30 | gevaerts | yes |
01:15:42 | gevaerts | if you don't, you get a bootloader build |
01:15:46 | Torne | are you using the same build directory for bootloader and regular? |
01:15:49 | fenugrec | as I thought |
01:15:50 | Torne | maybe you shouldn't? :) |
01:16:07 | fenugrec | Torne: maybe not, but it "used" to work |
01:16:15 | gevaerts | if I run make zip in a bootloader dir, I do get a rockbox.zip that has .rockbox/bootlader-fuze.sansa in it |
01:16:16 | Torne | well yah, but makefils change |
01:16:28 | Torne | and it's harder to make a mistake that way |
01:16:47 | Torne | and i can't think of a reason *not* to use two build directoryes :) |
01:16:50 | fenugrec | interesting |
01:17:29 | gevaerts | fenugrec: try make clean again and configure again. I suspect that you accidentally made a bootloader build instead of a normal build |
01:17:39 | fenugrec | the only reason to use one build directory is "not knowing any better", hehe.. |
01:18:23 | Torne | :) |
01:18:30 | fenugrec | gevaerts: that's probably what happened on my first try, but I'm sure I did a Normal on the last try. I'll try two build directories right away. |
01:18:44 | fenugrec | does configure affect anything outside the build/ directory ? |
01:18:54 | fenugrec | i.e. taint the source tree |
01:18:58 | gevaerts | fenugrec: it's also always a good idea to check if make clean did indeed clean up things |
01:18:59 | rasher | No. |
01:19:11 | Torne | configure doesn't, make does but only under tools which should be the same for both |
01:19:19 | fenugrec | ok |
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01:20:45 | fenugrec | Goodness, are we already at #21482 ? |
01:21:09 | Torne | zagor keeps changing the new build system :) |
01:23:08 | fenugrec | "cat: rockbox/buildRB/apps/features: No such file or directory" (this is during "make fullzip") |
01:23:37 | fenugrec | but I do get the rockbox-full.zip file |
01:23:43 | gevaerts | you're still doing a bootloader build |
01:24:21 | fenugrec | gevaerts: possible, but if so there's a problem : I'm using two different build dirs, and I re-run configure |
01:24:36 | gevaerts | which files do you have left after make clean? |
01:24:39 | fenugrec | of course specifying a (N)ormal build |
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01:25:10 | fenugrec | make clean in buildRB/ leaves {Makefile autoconf.h} |
01:25:38 | fenugrec | make clean in buildBL/ leaves {Makefile autoconf.h fuzeA.bin-21482} |
01:25:43 | | Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
01:25:47 | fenugrec | (last file is the one I created with mkamsboot) |
01:26:04 | gevaerts | ok. Have a look at Makefile in both. Do they have -DBOOTLOADER in EXTRA_DEFINES? |
01:26:51 | fenugrec | BL/Makefile : yes RB/Makefile : no (EXTRA_DEFINES is empty) |
01:27:53 | gevaerts | Do you have a bootloader-fuze.sansa in RB after running make there? |
01:28:06 | fenugrec | no |
01:28:41 | fenugrec | (earlier I was using one build/ for both BL and RB - that must have been (one of) the problems |
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01:29:46 | gevaerts | Do you have rockbox.sansa there? |
01:30:22 | fenugrec | not in RB/ |
01:30:32 | gevaerts | so what do you have there? |
01:30:48 | fenugrec | now {Makefile autoconf.h make.dep rockbox-full.zip} |
01:30:59 | gevaerts | did you run make there like I asked? |
01:31:07 | fenugrec | just did |
01:31:19 | fenugrec | rather, I ran "make fullzip" |
01:31:21 | fenugrec | not "make" |
01:31:27 | gevaerts | that's *not* the same |
01:31:41 | fenugrec | ok, take 2 |
01:35:03 | fenugrec | omg, rockbox.sansa == rockbox OS |
01:35:09 | fenugrec | that would be a problem, not having it |
01:37:45 | fenugrec | well, it works now |
01:38:17 | gevaerts | good :) |
01:38:35 | fenugrec | thanks for your time guys. |
01:39:00 | fenugrec | Would it be a nice thing to have the fullzip target depend on "make" |
01:39:16 | rasher | There's some reason it doesn't. I don't remember it |
01:39:18 | gevaerts | this has been debated several times |
01:39:25 | fenugrec | I probably won't be the last clueless user to forget |
01:39:36 | fenugrec | ah, ok |
01:39:55 | Mikachu | you can run "make all fullzip" |
01:40:03 | gevaerts | people want to be able to run make zip if some plugins failed. This is pretty important when doing big all-over-the-place changes or new ports |
01:40:44 | fenugrec | but if fullzip depends on 'all', you can run "make all zip" if you want.. |
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01:41:33 | fenugrec | anyway, if it's been discussed already then so be it, it's not a big problem anyway |
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01:47:45 | fenugrec | xcopy *.wv f:\MUSIC /P /S |
01:47:58 | * | fenugrec types in the wrong window again |
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01:48:34 | Mikachu | you typed all that without looking? :) |
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01:49:04 | fenugrec | pasted |
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02:25:16 | fenugrec | wow, this is awesome - I'm playing wavpack files with 0% boost rate on my Fuze |
02:28:21 | fenugrec | although 62MHz is the lowest clock ... |
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02:56:08 | webguest64 | i am having trouble with usb transfers using my sansa e200 and windows 9 |
02:56:14 | webguest64 | i mean windows 7 |
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02:57:40 | JdGordon | are you an admin? |
02:57:51 | webguest64 | yes |
02:58:20 | webguest64 | the transfers just freeze at some random point, also freezing either foobar or windows explorer(whatever is being used to transfer) |
03:00 |
03:00:48 | webguest64 | i'm using rockbox 3.3 |
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05:53:36 | joshme17 | hello fellow rockbox users |
05:55:12 | joshme17 | is anyone on the chat? |
05:56:25 | advcomp2019_ | joshme17, yes |
05:56:33 | | Quit joshme17 (Client Quit) |
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05:57:33 | joshme17 | Im back |
05:58:09 | advcomp2019_ | o ok.. you have a question? |
05:58:16 | evilnick_home | Hi joshme17 |
06:00 |
06:00:53 | joshme17 | I'm trying to make the scroll speed faster with my e200 |
06:01:10 | joshme17 | I broke the wheel on my sansa and now its hard to scroll |
06:01:19 | joshme17 | So I want to make it more sensitive |
06:01:51 | joshme17 | are there any sensetivity buttons? |
06:02:18 | Unhelpful | i don't believe there are |
06:02:29 | joshme17 | o |
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06:03:27 | joshme17 | I was trying to "mod" my mp3 to make the scroll wheel smoother |
06:03:38 | joshme17 | but instead its way harder and rougher now |
06:17:19 | CIA-71 | New commit by kkurbjun (r21483): M:Robe 500: RTC is now working, Added some SPI flexibility per end device and modified the interrupt handler for the tsc2100 which should make it more ... |
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06:28:46 | | Quit joshme17 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
06:30:01 | CIA-71 | New commit by kkurbjun (r21484): Fix Red |
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06:46:37 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
07:00 |
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07:27:49 | | Quit CoryClaxon ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )") |
07:38:37 | daurn | GodEater: lua is on rockbox now yeah? what are people doing |
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08:00 |
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08:10:46 | GodEater | daurn: the idea is to let people use it as another way to write plugins |
08:11:12 | GodEater | morning AlexP |
08:12:14 | daurn | GodEater: nice, I'll make something up if you want |
08:12:29 | GodEater | daurn: Llorean has a project for you it would seem :) |
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08:22:07 | daurn | daurn |
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08:25:29 | daurn | GodEater: where is lua info on wiki etc? |
08:25:38 | GodEater | good question :D |
08:26:07 | | Join lee321987 [0] (n=chatzill@67.150.85.146) |
08:26:07 | daurn | hmmm, trying to compile simulator for fuze: |
08:26:08 | daurn | /usr/bin/ld: /home/daurnimator/rockbox/svn/build/apps/codecs/libspeex-voice.a(bits.o): Relocations in generic ELF (EM: 40) |
08:26:09 | daurn | /home/daurnimator/rockbox/svn/build/apps/codecs/libspeex-voice.a: could not read symbols: File in wrong format |
08:26:09 | DBUG | Sent KICK daurn to server |
08:26:09 | daurn | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
08:26:10 | Kick | (#rockbox daurn :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@rockbox/bot/logbot |
08:26:10 | GodEater | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginLua |
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08:26:42 | GodEater | daurn: oops :) |
08:26:51 | GodEater | daurn: pastebin next time ? |
08:27:06 | daurn | pastebin for 4 lines seems a bit much |
08:27:19 | GodEater | logbot disagrees it would seem |
08:27:39 | GodEater | anyway : http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginLua |
08:27:45 | GodEater | that's all there is right now |
08:27:54 | GodEater | I suspect the helloworld.lua is probably more helpful |
08:28:05 | lee321987 | "Sound quality on the Sansa e200" −− Any thoughts on whether v2 sounds better than v1 when Rockboxed? |
08:28:14 | daurn | GodEater: I'll figure it out, shouldn't be ahrd |
08:28:23 | daurn | GodEater: so, able to help with the sim? |
08:28:42 | GodEater | daurn: let me try building it too |
08:30:21 | GodEater | lee321987: "sound quality" is very very subjective |
08:31:04 | lee321987 | I'm not real picky. Is there a big difference in quality to you? |
08:31:15 | GodEater | I've never listened to either |
08:31:18 | GodEater | so no ;) |
08:31:50 | GodEater | bertrik or kugel probably have both though |
08:32:47 | lee321987 | Thanks. |
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08:34:53 | daurn | GodEater: build it? |
08:35:12 | GodEater | yep, just finished |
08:35:16 | GodEater | worked fine |
08:37:19 | GodEater | daurn: which distro you on ? |
08:37:58 | Sir_Brizz | what kind of videos can my ipod g4 with rockbox play? |
08:38:55 | daurn | GodEater: xubuntu jaunty |
08:39:15 | GodEater | Sir_Brizz: Mpeg1/2 with MP1/MP2/MP£ audio. |
08:39:22 | GodEater | er MP3 :) |
08:39:26 | GodEater | not MP£ |
08:39:30 | Sir_Brizz | lol |
08:39:34 | * | GodEater always forget you can't capitalise numbers |
08:39:37 | Sir_Brizz | haha |
08:40:22 | Sir_Brizz | hmm |
08:40:29 | Sir_Brizz | I wonder how I can get a video in that |
08:40:48 | GodEater | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer |
08:40:58 | GodEater | read that page, we have "recommended" conversion tools at the bottom |
08:41:13 | GodEater | so you can take whatever videos you already have, and turn them into Rockbox playable ones |
08:41:32 | Sir_Brizz | oh great |
08:41:41 | Sir_Brizz | ffmpeg *smacks forehead* |
08:41:59 | GodEater | WinFF is our favoured front end |
08:42:06 | GodEater | it comes with a number of presets for Rockbox targets |
08:42:21 | Sir_Brizz | oh nice |
08:42:27 | GodEater | we thought so :D |
08:46:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
08:47:02 | daurn | GodEater: and lua is now in default build? I don't have to add anything? |
08:47:55 | | Quit slam_ (No route to host) |
08:49:40 | GodEater | correct |
08:49:50 | GodEater | it's a viewer |
08:50:07 | GodEater | so you should be able to just browse to a .lua file, click on it, and the plugin should execute it. |
08:50:43 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
08:52:31 | daurn | yes... should |
08:52:34 | daurn | failed to load /.rockbox/rocks/viewers/lua.rock |
08:52:34 | daurn | dlopen(simdisk/.rockbox/rocks/viewers/lua.rock): simdisk/.rockbox/rocks/viewers/lua.rock: invalid ELF header |
08:53:29 | * | GodEater downloads helloworld.lua to try it |
08:55:31 | GodEater | hmm, this could be tricky |
08:55:39 | GodEater | my X Display forwarding isn't working for some reason |
08:56:44 | bertrik | markun, I tried i2c communication on the meizu, using the built-in i2c controller. It looks like I'm getting an ACK at address 0x0A (but only once so far, next time I try, my request is NACKed) |
08:57:08 | bertrik | I couldn't find anything in the datasheets that is at i2c address 0x0A |
08:57:09 | markun | well, at least something is listening, right? |
08:58:15 | bertrik | yes, maybe I should now try more useful requests to that address |
08:59:12 | markun | in the schematics of the M6 you can see that the UDA1380 is connected to p10.0 and p10.1 |
08:59:30 | lee321987 | Can I donate money to RB? Who does it go to? |
08:59:53 | GodEater | lee321987: there's paypal button on the site, it goes to the "Rockbox fund", not an individual |
09:00 |
09:00:09 | markun | lee321987: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DonatedMoney |
09:00:17 | bertrik | what I've seen is that a read from a codec is usually something like <START> <ADDRESS-w> <REGISTER> <START> <ADDRESS-r><DATA from codec> <STOP> |
09:00:20 | lee321987 | thanks guys |
09:00:30 | GodEater | thank *you* |
09:00:35 | markun | lee321987: that page tells you what to expect from a donation :) |
09:00:46 | GodEater | daurn: helloworld.lua works fine here |
09:00:53 | markun | lee321987: which player do you use? |
09:01:00 | bertrik | so with a repeated START I mean, this is not mentioned in the datasheet but can be done I think |
09:01:18 | lee321987 | c200v1, but currently looking for a e200v1 |
09:01:25 | daurn | GodEater: I rebuilt, and this time when I choose the lua file in the fileviewr, nothing happens |
09:01:51 | GodEater | is it one you've written, or is it the sample one ? |
09:01:55 | daurn | the sample one |
09:02:03 | daurn | - if I go into .rockbox/rocks/viewers/lua.rock and try and run it, it has that ELF header error |
09:02:06 | GodEater | definitely works here =/ |
09:02:19 | GodEater | which svn version you built from ? |
09:02:29 | daurn | current |
09:02:29 | markun | bertrik: how did you find out there was something at 0xA? trial and error? |
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09:02:56 | bertrik | yes, just write 0 bytes to each address and check if I got an ACK |
09:02:58 | GodEater | daurn: you'll have to ask one of the better devs, I'm at a loss |
09:03:13 | daurn | who would that be? |
09:03:35 | GodEater | well safetydan is the guy who wrote the lua plugin, but any of the regulars should be able to help if they have time |
09:03:47 | daurn | hmm actually |
09:03:52 | daurn | that happens for ALL plugins |
09:03:53 | GodEater | linuxstb, Bagder, etc. |
09:03:59 | GodEater | you have a broken build |
09:04:16 | GodEater | <stating the obvious since 1973> |
09:04:31 | daurn | but i just built it in an empty dir, and it had no errors |
09:04:48 | * | daurn starts again |
09:05:17 | | Quit lee321987 ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]") |
09:06:55 | Sir_Brizz | gah I somehow got the subtitles encoded on this video... |
09:08:06 | Sir_Brizz | darn you DVDFab! |
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09:12:16 | daurn | GodEater: awesome, and now the build has put things in the wrong dir |
09:12:21 | markun | Sir_Brizz: wrong channel? |
09:12:56 | GodEater | markun: I think he's having fun with MpegPlayer |
09:13:05 | GodEater | for various values of "fun" |
09:13:06 | Sir_Brizz | probably :/ |
09:13:07 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
09:13:15 | markun | :) |
09:15:50 | daurn | GodEater: finaly, working now |
09:16:00 | GodEater | awesome |
09:16:11 | GodEater | I have to shoot out to a meeting, biab |
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09:37:01 | CIA-71 | New commit by rob (r21485): Fix an error in the TCC NAND driver which caused a panic on startup for certain users. |
09:37:13 | CIA-71 | New commit by rob (r21486): TCC78x: Enable interrupts/threading in the bootloader (required now that the storage driver yields). |
09:39:36 | daurn | is O_TRUNC the same as "w+" ? |
09:45:36 | Sir_Brizz | is it possible to usb charge in rockbox on an ipod and NOT sync? |
09:45:42 | Sir_Brizz | or is there just no way to usb charge? |
09:46:57 | | Quit mt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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09:48:58 | linuxstb | daurn: Compare the descriptions of "man fopen" and "man 2 open". You need to specify more than just O_TRUNC. |
09:51:08 | daurn | so "w+" is O_RDWR | O_TRUNC ? |
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09:52:14 | linuxstb | daurn: Looks about right. |
09:52:51 | daurn | whats the difference between a and a+ ? >.< |
09:53:31 | daurn | ah, its WRONLY, not read and write |
09:54:11 | markun | trying to edit a wiki page I'm sent to TWikiRegistration, where should I login? |
09:55:06 | linuxstb | markun: I normally get a pop-up window whenever I try to do something that requires me to login... |
09:55:14 | markun | linuxstb: me too |
09:55:42 | linuxstb | I've just tried it, and it's still working normally for me - i.e. I got a prompt |
09:56:06 | linuxstb | Reboot and try again ;) |
09:56:17 | markun | hehe :) |
09:56:34 | | Join mt [0] (n=MTee@rockbox/developer/mt) |
09:56:41 | linuxstb | I would probably try restarting my browser though. |
09:59:37 | markun | linuxstb: that did the trick :) (I had upgraded firefox but not restarted the browser) |
10:00 |
10:06:31 | Tuplanolla | morning. can I use a 16GB microsdhc card with my e280 with rockbox? |
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10:15:02 | markun | Tuplanolla: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaFAQ#Which_microSD_cards_can_I_use |
10:15:11 | markun | so it should work |
10:15:30 | Tuplanolla | ah yes |
10:15:32 | Tuplanolla | thanks a lot |
10:16:02 | markun | hopefully the info in there is correct :) |
10:16:43 | Tuplanolla | yep. we'll see it in a couple of days when I get mine :) |
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10:41:49 | daurn | bah |
10:42:12 | daurn | well, I've just wrapped the rb fileoperations for lua to work like normal |
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10:43:28 | ruskie | lo |
10:43:49 | Unhelpful | daurn: you're the new lua plugin maintainer? ;) |
10:46:41 | linuxstb | daurn: What do you mean "work like normal"? Aren't the RB file operations already normal? |
10:46:42 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
10:48:34 | Unhelpful | probably "more like in other lua interpreters" |
10:50:05 | webmind | rockbox supports lua? |
10:50:42 | | Quit _lifeless (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
10:53:10 | linuxstb | webmind: There's a "viewer plugin" to run lua scripts, yes. |
10:53:13 | daurn | to work like the normal lua io functions |
10:53:32 | daurn | Unhelpful: just did it in lua, could probably be done easier in C though :p |
10:53:58 | webmind | k |
10:54:07 | daurn | Unhelpful: http://pastey.net/116602 |
10:54:09 | linuxstb | daurn: Ah, OK. So currently (in svn) the standard lua io functions don't work? |
10:55:17 | daurn | linuxstb: correct |
10:55:41 | daurn | linuxstb: you have to use strange and foreign to me rb.open, rb.write, etc |
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10:56:47 | funman | that is the case for C plugins as well |
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10:57:07 | GodEater | funman: yes, but the rb.functionname works just like the C counterpart |
10:57:38 | daurn | who is the lua maintainer? |
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10:57:44 | GodEater | safetydan |
10:57:48 | linuxstb | daurn: Those are the standard POSIX file I/O functions. But yes, if you don't know C, they will be foreign to you. |
10:57:53 | GodEater | well, he's the original author |
10:57:59 | GodEater | anyone can be a maintainer :) |
10:58:07 | funman | daurn: do you volunteer? |
10:58:22 | linuxstb | daurn: We don't really have maintainers - people come and go and their interests change. |
10:58:46 | daurn | I'm not volunteering for anything C related |
10:59:03 | funman | daurn: you could just send your patch to rockbox-dev@ |
10:59:30 | linuxstb | It's not really a patch though, is it? Unless we can have a library of lua code included for every lua plugin. |
10:59:53 | daurn | its something that people could require from lua |
10:59:59 | daurn | require"stdio" or something :p |
11:00 |
11:00:30 | linuxstb | I would say post it to a flyspray task (as a patch), and try and start a discussion there about how that (and similar libraries) could be incorporated into Rockbox. |
11:01:33 | linuxstb | Maybe we should have something like .rockbox/lua/ where such files can live? |
11:02:34 | daurn | well in the standard lua interpreter, it looks for lua libs in /usr/local/share/lua/VERSION/... |
11:02:35 | GodEater | well we already have "actions.lua" living in the viewers directory |
11:03:00 | linuxstb | GodEater: That could be moved then. I don't think having lots of .lua files there is nice. |
11:03:07 | GodEater | nor I |
11:03:21 | linuxstb | Something for MrSomeone... |
11:04:10 | linuxstb | daurn: Are you suggesting we add a lua/VERSION/ hierarchy? |
11:05:06 | * | GodEater suspects we're unlikely to have multiple versions of the lua interpreter available at one time |
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11:06:36 | daurn | linuxstb: no, but there needs to be a standard lib dir |
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11:11:30 | linuxstb | daurn: Yes, that's what I suggested - .rockbox/lua/ |
11:12:20 | daurn | linuxstb: and I was agreeing |
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11:13:49 | linuxstb | OK ;) |
11:14:20 | lucent | funman: heya, I'm running into a curious abort error with 8gb fuze and 8gb uSD card |
11:14:38 | daurn | ha |
11:14:46 | lucent | only seems to happen with some files and not others |
11:14:50 | daurn | lua segfaults rockbox when you try and run a file that doesn't exist |
11:15:08 | daurn | try running this as a .lua file: dofile("doesntexist") |
11:15:15 | lucent | heh |
11:15:36 | funman | lucent: not curious, the storage driver is broken |
11:15:55 | lucent | oh okay |
11:17:16 | lucent | funman: know by-chance if the other sansas (c200 or e200) are any more stable under rockbox? I'm not freaking about my fuze, it works well enough and I'm happy... |
11:17:33 | lucent | though, I would like something reliable enough that can accept uSD cards so I can deejay with that soon |
11:18:11 | CIA-71 | New commit by lenzone10 (r21487): Updated italian translation. |
11:18:15 | funman | afaik it's the same problem on all sansa |
11:18:46 | * | lucent grins |
11:18:54 | funman | c200v2 still lacks access to some buttons, m200v4 clip & c200v2 suffer from a problem with playback |
11:18:58 | lucent | it's so close! |
11:18:59 | lucent | :) |
11:20:27 | lucent | well any tests you want I can try here |
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11:20:53 | lucent | I love the work you've done already, and the other contributors as well |
11:21:54 | lucent | funman: where would I look, I want to make a quick tweak so that the fuze and rockbox assumes it just wants power when connected to USB, not "USB data" mode |
11:22:13 | lucent | i.e. automatically like I'm holding the select button when inserting usb |
11:22:28 | funman | holding the select button is simpler :) |
11:23:01 | lucent | sometimes I mess it up and then i have to unplug that usb cable, it's a mess if I'm driving a car and doing that ;) |
11:24:10 | lucent | it would be nice if I could press select button to revert out of the usb data mode, and into charge mode |
11:24:59 | mt | saratoga : The patch you made, is it to be applied after applying my latest patch ? |
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11:25:58 | funman | lucent: make usb_power_button() in firmware/usb.c always return true |
11:26:07 | lucent | funman: perfect, thank you |
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11:38:15 | mt | linuxstb (when you have time to test the patch) : Could you check the bug I talked about before about not being able to get metadata tags from id3v1buf[0] and -buf[1] ? |
11:39:01 | linuxstb | mt: OK. Did you see saratoga's patch that made some changes to your patch? He posted it in IRC after you left yesterday. |
11:39:15 | mt | Yes I saw it. |
11:39:39 | funman | i found audiohw_set_freq() to change playback frequency, but i can't find the equivalent for recording frequency |
11:40:05 | linuxstb | It's not the same function? |
11:40:14 | mt | linuxstb : I have just asked him here about whether it should be applied after my patch, or is it intended as a replacement patch . |
11:40:38 | linuxstb | mt: So you did ;) I missed that. |
11:41:11 | mt | linuxstb: ;) |
11:41:37 | mt | anyway, if it's a replacement, I'll have to modify it a little because it misses out some files. |
11:43:07 | daurn | so |
11:43:31 | daurn | who can tell me why the whole of rockbox seg faults when you loadfile a file that doesn't exist with lua |
11:43:36 | mt | linuxstb : Is it common to have sim vs target problems like the current one ? |
11:44:00 | funman | daurn: segfault means data abort ? |
11:44:24 | daurn | segfault meanign the simulator quits with "Segmentation fault" |
11:44:28 | linuxstb | daurn: Because there's a bug in Rockbox's lua interpreter... |
11:44:46 | * | linuxstb doesn't know what answer daurn was looking for |
11:45:37 | daurn | i guess I just don't understand how rockbox works; its not normal for the whole o/s to crash when one app - an interpreted one at that - tries to open a file |
11:45:59 | linuxstb | mt: Yes. For example, the sim manages memory differently, so if you're overwriting something you may not notice in the sim, but you do on target. |
11:46:24 | funman | daurn: the simulator is special |
11:46:52 | linuxstb | daurn: The sim _is_ one app, and Windows/Linux/etc is the OS. Does your OS crash? |
11:47:13 | linuxstb | And on target, there's no memory protection, so yes, one part of Rockbox can bring everything down. |
11:48:03 | daurn | ok :) |
11:48:42 | daurn | how can I debug (print to sim console)? |
11:49:00 | funman | if the simulator segfaults you should use gdb |
11:49:06 | linuxstb | In C or in lua? |
11:49:14 | daurn | C first, then tell me about lua |
11:49:29 | linuxstb | You use the DEBUGF() macro, which works like the C printf() function. |
11:49:57 | linuxstb | And I don't know about lua... |
11:51:08 | linuxstb | Does that dofile function work if the file exists? |
11:51:22 | daurn | yes |
11:51:22 | | Quit jkl (Operation timed out) |
11:51:47 | daurn | the problem is somewher around line 600 of apps/plugins/lua/lauxlib.c |
11:58:53 | linuxstb | daurn: I don't have time to debug it now. If you can't find the problem, file a bug report, with an example .lua program that demonstrates the bug. |
11:59:14 | daurn | ok, found the problem line: |
11:59:24 | daurn | line 557 in lauxlib.c const char *filename = lua_tostring(L, fnameindex) + 1; |
11:59:55 | daurn | the +1 should be INSIDE the bracket |
12:00 |
12:00:31 | lucent | funman: is bug reporting on the errors I see (SD related) useful to you and others? |
12:00:42 | funman | lucent: nope, unless it comes with a patch :) |
12:00:46 | lucent | oh okay |
12:01:03 | lucent | sorry I don't do that kind of thing well, I wish I could help in some way |
12:01:36 | funman | lucent: the manual needs some work if you want to help on something else than code |
12:01:53 | lucent | funman: hm, yeah I may do that |
12:02:22 | lucent | so many distractions, but I really do feel motivated to try and help |
12:02:54 | daurn | or not >.< |
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12:09:13 | lucent | funman: my rockbox is configured to resume playback on power-on, and I get those data errors sometimes. If I pause playback just after power-on (repeatedly pressing PLAY like a crazed monkey), there's no crash, and then I just hit play and it keeps oging |
12:09:21 | lucent | s/oging/going/ |
12:09:40 | lucent | still random SD driver error? |
12:09:53 | lucent | just hoping there was some info I could give you that would be helpful |
12:10:05 | lucent | maybe there isn't anything to it :( |
12:11:32 | funman | i don't know what is going wrong and i still didn't look at it carefully |
12:12:41 | lucent | I wish success for you if you get time to look at it :) |
12:12:43 | daurn | flyspray server is SLOW? |
12:19:13 | daurn | bug submitted. |
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12:39:11 | CIA-71 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21488): Fix FS #10378: Lua crashes when loading non-existing files |
12:41:23 | | Part ruskie ("...") |
12:41:48 | GodEater | bug fixed |
12:41:50 | GodEater | :D |
12:46:05 | Grahack | hi, has mcuelenaere a different nick on IRC ? I'd like to chat about the Lua plugin. |
12:46:46 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
12:47:05 | funman | no he has the same nick (but is absent from irc now) |
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12:47:25 | Grahack | Thanks. Is there someone involved in the dev of Lua plugin here then ? |
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12:48:15 | GodEater | just ask your question |
12:48:21 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: you called? |
12:49:02 | Torne | sneaky |
12:49:11 | Grahack | great, I wanted to talk about buttons and the name of the file actions.lua |
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12:49:31 | Grahack | do you plan to expose button codes to lua ? |
12:50:21 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: it isn't technically difficult to do that, but I don't really see a point in doing so |
12:50:33 | mcuelenaere | how is a script going to know which buttons it must use? |
12:50:34 | | Quit markun (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
12:50:38 | mcuelenaere | they differ in naming across targets |
12:51:09 | Grahack | but could lua.make be aware of the target ? |
12:51:16 | Torne | mcuelenaere: this is true but the actions are somewhat useless on some targets |
12:51:22 | Torne | e.g. ipod where select and right are the same action |
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12:51:46 | Torne | so it seems like totally avoiding target specific stuff in nontrivial lua scripts is unlikely anyway :) |
12:51:56 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: what do you mean? |
12:51:58 | mcuelenaere | Torne: hmm true |
12:52:27 | mcuelenaere | last time I asked about this, the general opinion was 'actions are the way to go' |
12:52:28 | Grahack | I see $(TARGET) in lua.make, we could write a button_helper.pl that could create a lua table if we tellhim which file to process |
12:52:46 | Torne | mcuelenaere: oh, it is, if what you're writing can make do with them |
12:52:53 | GodEater | Grahack: well volunteered |
12:52:54 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: that's what I planned in doing if we were going to do this |
12:53:05 | Torne | but if you're writing a game and you want "up down left right select" that's not easy to do with the action lib |
12:53:20 | Unhelpful | being able to use get_custom_action would be nice if you want to do games and the like :) |
12:53:23 | Grahack | spacerocks couldn't work only with actions... |
12:53:41 | Torne | i guess there could be an argument for having actionlib support several sets of bindings, as it were, actually |
12:53:52 | Torne | atm it tries to reflect the standard usage of each button in the main rockbox ui |
12:54:03 | mcuelenaere | Unhelpful: get_custom_action requires a C callback, which isn't easy to implement in Lua |
12:54:09 | Torne | but maybe you could have a "game mode" or similar where it tried to give you direction buttons instead, or similar |
12:54:15 | Grahack | I'm not a perl expert so I talked about this to aperl-friend, we could work on this a bit |
12:54:40 | Grahack | generating a lua table with target specific button codes |
12:54:55 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: it isn't really difficult, I thought regex'ing button-target.h for BUTTON_* lines and then preprocessing it would do the job |
12:55:04 | mcuelenaere | a bit like action_helper.pl currently does |
12:55:30 | Torne | mcuelenaere: probably close enough |
12:55:42 | Grahack | ok so we're looking in the samedirection, great |
12:55:43 | Torne | you'll pick up things like BUTTON_MAIN BUTTON_REMOTE that way but that's probably a feature :) |
12:55:49 | Unhelpful | mcuelenaere: a fixed callback wouldn't be that difficult, though, maybe something along the lines of the way pictureflow does it - there's a table of action contexts, and it just strips the flags from the context and indexes the table. |
12:55:56 | mcuelenaere | Torne: heh, we could filter that out :) |
12:56:06 | Torne | yah, but it might be good actually :) |
12:56:20 | Grahack | the second question is: would it be niceto rename actions.lua to constants.lu if it contains actions, contexts and button codes ? |
12:56:24 | Torne | though actually evaluating their values might be fiddly |
12:56:33 | Unhelpful | i don't think doing the callback in lua is needed... i agree it sounds awful to have to do :) |
12:57:06 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: I'm not sure whether we should split that or put it in one big file |
12:57:13 | mcuelenaere | remember, these targets don't have much RAM |
12:57:30 | mcuelenaere | the less files we would need to include, the better |
12:57:47 | Torne | ..wait, what i was describing above is what pluginlib_actions already does, mostly :) |
12:58:05 | mcuelenaere | Torne: wasn't pluginlib going to be deprecated? |
12:58:11 | Torne | possibly |
12:58:19 | * | mcuelenaere thought we should try to move away from it as much as possible |
12:58:54 | Unhelpful | if you want up/down/left/right *and* some other actions you'll need to combine, and then it all falls apart (with PLA) |
12:59:20 | Torne | maybe we just need a better design for PLA that lets you combine things to some degree |
12:59:41 | mcuelenaere | hmm so basically, Lua scripts will need to behave the same as C plugins and (runtime) check what keys are available and use those |
12:59:53 | mcuelenaere | Torne: pluginlib isn't exposed to Lua (yet) |
13:00 |
13:00:15 | Torne | mcuelenaere: sure, but i can't see it being particuarly hard to do :) |
13:00:18 | Torne | it's just a suggestion |
13:00:33 | Torne | PLA is not a universal solution, anyway |
13:00:45 | daurn | mcuelenaere: hey |
13:00:49 | Torne | ultimately some script somewhere is going to want raw buttons |
13:00:59 | Torne | but then it's gonna just have to runtime decide what target it's on |
13:01:02 | mcuelenaere | mm yes, probably |
13:01:04 | mcuelenaere | daurn: hi |
13:01:15 | Torne | s;not really enough to just detect what buttons exist because that ells you nothing baout their physical placements |
13:01:28 | Torne | you'll end up doing the equivalent of the ifdef pile that C plugins do ;) |
13:01:30 | Torne | but at runtime |
13:02:02 | * | mcuelenaere wonders whether the script should decide what keys to use based on the player (eg new constant) or based on what keys are available |
13:02:15 | Torne | based on player, almost certainly |
13:02:30 | Unhelpful | expose PLA in lua, or pluginlib in general? that could be problematic as we'd need to decide what pluginlib functions we want linked into the interpreter... |
13:02:33 | daurn | mcuelenaere: I wrapped file operations with a more lua-like syntax |
13:02:38 | Torne | how else is it going to know that on ipods, BUTTON_MENU and BUTTON_PLAY are th ebest choices for up and down in 4-way controls? :) |
13:02:41 | daurn | mcuelenaere: though you might want to implement it in C |
13:02:54 | mcuelenaere | daurn: I saw that, and I'm trying to mimic it in C using IO lib |
13:03:12 | daurn | mcuelenaere: newer: http://pastey.net/116606 |
13:03:22 | Torne | Unhelpful: add stuff as people request it probably ;) |
13:03:28 | mcuelenaere | daurn: ah, thx |
13:03:33 | GodEater | perhaps we need aliases for buttons too ? |
13:03:45 | Torne | GodEater: isn't that more or less what PLA *is*? :) |
13:03:51 | Torne | a bunch of alias mappings |
13:03:59 | Torne | s'just not a very flexible one |
13:04:01 | GodEater | hehe - I guess so |
13:04:06 | daurn | mcuelenaere: I'm sure you can thing of a better userdata object, I just used what first came to mind |
13:04:08 | * | mcuelenaere should look into how PLA works |
13:04:09 | * | GodEater shall further engage brain before speaking again |
13:04:48 | mcuelenaere | daurn: I'm not really familiar with Lua, but I'll just port the Lua IO lib using Rockbox's file functions |
13:04:48 | Torne | mcuelenaere: it's just a bunch of get_custom_action tables |
13:04:59 | mcuelenaere | so a lot of C callbacks? |
13:05:14 | Torne | mcuelenaere: the plugin picks which tables it's interested in and a priority order for them and passes it over |
13:05:17 | Torne | just one callback |
13:05:30 | Torne | the code is really short, not hard to understand :) |
13:05:48 | * | mcuelenaere doesn't spot a callback |
13:06:07 | mcuelenaere | pluginlib_getaction, right? |
13:06:11 | Torne | hm |
13:06:41 | Torne | it's get_context_map |
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13:07:32 | Torne | pluginlib_getaction pretty much is just get_custom_action, except it just sets up the static variables that the callback is going to use as well |
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13:08:25 | mcuelenaere | Torne: isn't that the preferred way of using PLA? |
13:08:34 | Torne | hm? |
13:08:37 | Torne | i'm not sure what you mean |
13:08:38 | Torne | that's what it is |
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13:10:31 | mcuelenaere | Torne: never mind, I think I understand how PLA works |
13:10:51 | Torne | it's just a convenience wrapper for rb->get_custom_action to save you writing your own callback |
13:10:59 | Torne | and a set of mapping tables that might be useful |
13:11:34 | mcuelenaere | yes, so I don't see why you should do that rb->get_custom_action() call in your code; just use pluginlib_getaction() and it works |
13:11:36 | Unhelpful | Torne: a general-purpose callback, and the ability to define tables from your script, would be nice. |
13:12:17 | Torne | mcuelenaere: hm? i didn't sya you did.. |
13:12:40 | Grahack | all this is beyond my knowledge... would it mean dropping the lua actions table ? |
13:13:36 | Torne | Grahack: at the moment lua calls the default get_action which uses rockbox's standard set of action mappings |
13:13:37 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: no, it would mean adding some extra Lua functions |
13:14:09 | mcuelenaere | also, BUTTON_* constants will probably get added |
13:14:11 | Torne | Grahack: there's also other sets of action mappings in PLA which you can use instead of the default mappings, which will solve the problem you had of select and right not being distinguishable on the ipod, but may introduce other problems ;) |
13:15:12 | Torne | yah, either way you'd want to add the BUTTON_* stuff as well |
13:15:24 | Grahack | and would it be possible (or maybe it's already the case) to expose the platform to lua, like rb.target = "iPod Video" for example ? |
13:15:31 | Torne | for lua scripts that are willing to take the awkwardness of having to make it target-specific to get flexible button config |
13:17:15 | Torne | Grahack: yah, that would be required to make BUTTON_* useful |
13:17:20 | Unhelpful | Torne: presumably they can include a second script in a platform-dependent way? |
13:17:29 | Torne | Unhelpful: yes, that'd work nicely |
13:17:33 | Torne | saves memory |
13:17:49 | daurn | I wouldn't recommend that |
13:18:04 | Torne | hm? |
13:18:13 | daurn | all you need is all the button state exposed in a table |
13:18:29 | daurn | and make a lua function/library that does it all for you |
13:18:31 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: I don't think using strings is a good way to define targets |
13:19:00 | daurn | so have the standard buttons; and whatever target you're running on has extra keys in the tabel |
13:19:03 | Torne | daurn: the point is that for button_get to be *useful* you need to know what target you are on |
13:19:04 | Grahack | or anything else! what could it be ? |
13:19:10 | Torne | because otherwise you don't know what button to map to what |
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13:19:38 | daurn | Torne: I'm saying that you can abstract that away ==> know the actual target that is |
13:19:46 | Torne | that's what pluginlib_actions does |
13:19:52 | Unhelpful | ...badly. :/ |
13:19:54 | Torne | but the point is that it's not sufficient for every purpose |
13:19:56 | daurn | and just check for buttons.left and buttons.up and buttons.right etc |
13:20:09 | Torne | daurn: yes. that's exactly what pluginlib_actions already does. |
13:20:11 | daurn | and if you have all of them; have one control set |
13:20:16 | Unhelpful | daurn: not really, the layout is important. |
13:20:19 | Torne | but if you want a configuration that PLA doesn't have, it's tough. |
13:21:26 | daurn | also, I haven't looked at the lua api yet |
13:21:33 | Torne | it doesn't matter what the lua api is, to be honest |
13:21:33 | daurn | but can you play/pause/etc? |
13:21:44 | Torne | oh, sorry |
13:21:48 | Torne | you're talking about something els enow :) |
13:22:39 | * | mcuelenaere wonders whether he should define stdin/stdout/etc to 0 or just remove it from the Lua IO lib |
13:22:57 | daurn | mcuelenaere: I'd remove stdin |
13:22:57 | Torne | mcuelenaere: just drop them, i'd suggest |
13:23:03 | Torne | if they aren't implemented. |
13:23:08 | daurn | mcuelenaere: but make stdout a file that gets created somewhere |
13:23:08 | mcuelenaere | same for popen then I guess? |
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13:23:11 | Torne | then scripts will fail more promptly :) |
13:23:12 | mcuelenaere | this breaks compatibility though |
13:23:14 | daurn | eg, luaoutput.txt |
13:23:22 | Torne | daurn: ah, yes, that's possibly a good idea |
13:23:33 | Torne | but yeah for things that aren't implemented, unless lua already has a defined way to say they aren't implemented, remove them |
13:23:40 | Torne | that way scripts which try to use them will fail early |
13:23:42 | Torne | and people will notice |
13:23:46 | Torne | :) |
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13:24:33 | Grahack | mcuelenaere: and what about the math lib ? do you plan to expose it ? |
13:24:47 | daurn | Torne: I don't know of any lua progs that actually use io.input or io.ouput |
13:24:49 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: not all functions have C equivalents in Rockbox |
13:24:49 | Boogerhead | Painful question −− How do I tell the database to re-initialize or update? I've got nothing in the menu to do so |
13:25:04 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: you do know there's no floating point, right? |
13:25:08 | daurn | and I can't think of any cases where they would be useful that major tweaking wouldn't be necessary anyway |
13:25:24 | Torne | daurn: ..yes, so if you remove them then most people won't notice, and the people who are trying to use them will realise quickly that they're not implemented :) |
13:25:39 | Torne | wheras if they just do nothing or similar people may wonder why it's not working |
13:26:06 | Torne | Boogerhead: settings -> database -> update now, if my memory serves |
13:26:15 | daurn | for most things, I agree; but we're talking about stdin and stdout here: its not obvious that rockbox doesn't have those things? |
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13:26:20 | GodEater | or the context menu for the database entry will do it too |
13:26:42 | Torne | daurn: i'm not sure why that's an argument for not removing them |
13:26:51 | Boogerhead | torne: thanks .. settings: general: database ... thanks! =) |
13:26:59 | Grahack | mcuelenaere, so ok there are some issues that are beyond my knowledge... I'll try to implement what I need in the math lib in pure lua |
13:27:11 | daurn | Torne: remove stdin, stdout should be replaced by something where you can read it still |
13:27:47 | Torne | daurn: yes. I said that was a good idea. I said remove things which are *not implemented* |
13:27:55 | Torne | if you make stdout go to a file then it's implemented :) |
13:28:07 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: there are some fixed-point math functions, see apps/plugins/lib/fixedpoint.c, they just aren't wrapped in Lua yet |
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13:28:47 | Torne | Grahack: what actual math functions are you after? |
13:29:14 | Grahack | min, max, trigo |
13:29:38 | Grahack | (ok min and max are easy :-D) |
13:29:47 | daurn | oh, theres no math lib? |
13:30:18 | Torne | you'll need the fixed point library for trig |
13:30:26 | Torne | otherwise everythhing is going to return 0 or 1 a lot :) |
13:30:43 | Torne | the lua math lib implementations won't work because we're using ints |
13:30:50 | Grahack | daurn: mcuelenaere said "not all functions have C equivalents in Rockbox. You do know there's no floating point, right?", I'm not sure (and maybe don't want yet) to understand this fully |
13:31:05 | Torne | Grahack: lua's numbers are all whole numbers, in rockbox |
13:31:16 | Torne | there's no such thing as 0.1 for your script |
13:31:21 | Torne | so, trig is difficult. :) |
13:31:40 | Grahack | so that's why I can't splash for a non-whole duration |
13:31:43 | Torne | 3/2 == 1 |
13:31:48 | Torne | Indeed :) |
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13:31:57 | Torne | division will just truncate the result |
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13:32:03 | * | mcuelenaere thought this was explained in the manual |
13:32:03 | Torne | so 1/2 is 0 |
13:32:23 | Torne | so that's why we can't just provide the lua math library easily |
13:32:43 | Torne | we'd have to implement it in terms of fixed-point arithmetic instead, and you would have to have your script deal in fixed point and convert to/from integer as needed. |
13:33:13 | daurn | there is already lua fixed point math libraries I'm pretty sure |
13:33:42 | Grahack | mcuelenaere: sorry I read the RB manual thorougly but don't remember this one |
13:33:42 | Torne | daurn: yes, but you wouldn't want to use them |
13:33:50 | Torne | you'd want to wrap our C fixed point math library up :) |
13:33:52 | Torne | faster |
13:34:09 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: it is mentioned in the Lua plugin description, but if you don't know what floating point means you've probably missed it :) |
13:34:54 | Grahack | I thought I knew:-( I guess I maybe skipped this technical "pointu" thing |
13:34:57 | | Quit linuxguy3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
13:35:13 | daurn | mcuelenaere: you've looked at luaconfig.h? |
13:35:40 | mcuelenaere | daurn: I think so, yes, why? |
13:36:27 | daurn | I thought you just tell it you don't want to use floating point, and it fixes everything for you |
13:36:34 | daurn | (and you don't have to get rid of the math lib) |
13:36:53 | Grahack | ok in fact I didn't even think about reading the manual here: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch11.html#x14-23700011.3.4 |
13:37:01 | Grahack | where it's explained |
13:37:50 | mcuelenaere | daurn: I had some trouble getting Lua to use fixed point, so I hacked some places to get it working right |
13:38:07 | Grahack | thanks guys for everything, bye |
13:38:12 | | Quit Grahack ("Leaving.") |
13:38:29 | Torne | daurn: i think the math library still "works" when lua numbers are ints, but only for the minimal definitoin of works |
13:38:36 | Torne | i.e. things like sin() will jus tend up returning 0 or 1 |
13:38:45 | Torne | i don't think the math library code actually adapts to deal with it |
13:38:50 | daurn | mcuelenaere: can you enable the math lib? |
13:39:00 | * | mcuelenaere tries |
13:39:26 | Torne | but things like math.abs or math.min should work |
13:39:40 | daurn | Torne: yeah, possibly |
13:39:46 | Torne | actually having it return fixedpoint would be an API change |
13:39:54 | Torne | since fixed point numbers actually mean something different |
13:39:58 | daurn | but alot of code uses math.floor :) |
13:39:59 | Torne | whereas float/int is just a rounding thing :) |
13:40:19 | Torne | well again math.floor might Just Work |
13:40:21 | Torne | depends how it's implemented |
13:40:28 | Torne | it would do nothing, but that's correct :) |
13:40:34 | daurn | well, with ints, you don't even do anything : |
13:40:50 | Torne | yah, but it may not be implemented that way :0 |
13:41:22 | Torne | but yah. trigonometry is *not* going to work, even if some of the rest does. |
13:42:02 | | Quit simjoko ("KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090520, built on: 2009/06/06 12:36:26 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/") |
13:42:42 | daurn | http://luaforge.net/projects/lnum/ |
13:42:45 | mcuelenaere | hmm I get a PANIC: unprotected error in call to Lua API (attempt to index a string value) |
13:43:10 | daurn | mcuelenaere: see that page mcuelenaere, its a library to get lua to work with non floating point numbers :) |
13:43:41 | Torne | daurn: i don't think it help swith math |
13:43:45 | Torne | and you can already make lua use int trivially |
13:43:51 | Torne | i think LNUM is just for using other types |
13:43:59 | Torne | like single-precision float, or unsigned int, or so on :) |
13:44:27 | Torne | ooh, or complex numbers. that's kind of cool. :) |
13:45:06 | daurn | "The LNUM patch, also known as "integer patch" allows Lua 5.1 to treat pure |
13:45:07 | daurn | integer operations with full accuracy and more speed on non-FP platforms, |
13:45:07 | daurn | without changing the external interfaces." |
13:46:08 | | Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
13:46:23 | Torne | Ahh, i see |
13:46:38 | Torne | it's supporting *multiple* number types |
13:46:56 | Torne | so numbers can be integers until such time as they get divided by three or whatever :) |
13:48:06 | mcuelenaere | daurn: Rockbox's printf() functions don't support %f/%g/.. |
13:48:18 | mcuelenaere | and Lua floating point (including this patch) depends on that |
13:49:25 | daurn | and that can't be changed/fixed implemented I take it? (or without major effort) |
13:49:47 | mcuelenaere | it can, but that takes core changes |
13:50:01 | mcuelenaere | or it would require a separate sprintf() implementation in the plugin |
13:50:54 | | Quit FlynDice (Remote closed the connection) |
13:52:25 | mcuelenaere | does Rockbox somewhere use software-floating point? |
13:52:28 | | Quit funman ("free(random());") |
13:52:31 | * | daurn looks over at Bagder , Llorean , linuxstb , etc |
13:53:45 | daurn | mcuelenaere: also, any reason that you don't have the package library? |
13:54:15 | mcuelenaere | daurn: haven't looked at that, safetydan didn't include it so I suppose it didn't compile |
13:56:02 | mcuelenaere | ah I see, that requires some sort of dynamic library linking framework to work |
13:56:21 | mcuelenaere | (which obviously Rockbox doesn't have) |
13:58:36 | daurn | true |
13:58:52 | daurn | still, can you add a subset of it |
13:59:04 | daurn | loading lua packages is a very important feature |
13:59:24 | daurn | (which is still possible with dofile, and you can implement require in lua completely) |
13:59:39 | preglow | mcuelenaere: software-floating point in rockbox? no |
13:59:39 | daurn | but a C implementation would be nice |
13:59:43 | preglow | we very much try to avoid that |
13:59:47 | preglow | since we don't have an fpu |
13:59:58 | mcuelenaere | so I suppose it never has been tested? |
13:59:58 | preglow | well, the gigabeast does, i think, but that's the exception |
14:00 |
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14:00:31 | preglow | it depends what you mean by it, floating point will work, but there is no library support |
14:00:40 | NHeal | simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
14:00:40 | NJoin | tmzt [0] (n=tmzt@adsl-99-164-52-98.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net) |
14:00:40 | NJoin | Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean) |
14:00:40 | NJoin | dlctestnt [0] (n=dlctestn@206.251.250.209) |
14:00:40 | NJoin | trisiak [0] (n=tree@chello089078243195.chello.pl) |
14:00:40 | NJoin | Bombe [0] (n=droden@freenet/developer/Bombe) |
14:00:43 | preglow | an it'll be painfully slow on almost all our targets |
14:00:45 | preglow | so please do avoid it |
14:01:02 | mcuelenaere | yes I know that :) I just wasn't sure whether it was ever tested on-target |
14:01:22 | mcuelenaere | daurn: so you mean require() should just be an alias for dofile() in Rockbox Lua? |
14:01:29 | preglow | sure, many of our codecs used floating point before i fixed them to not do so :> |
14:01:51 | preglow | like i said, floating point will work, just don't expect sqrt() or cos() to exist |
14:02:30 | daurn | mcuelenaere: not an alias, but it should check in the package.loaded table to see if its already been loaded, and if now, loadfile is from a list of locations specified by package.path |
14:02:35 | daurn | s/now/not |
14:03:20 | daurn | preglow: I want to use the LNUM patch - it allows you to use ints most of the time, but floating point nums when absolutely necessary |
14:03:25 | mcuelenaere | ah, I hacked dofile() to do the 'search in list of locations for file'-part :) |
14:04:52 | daurn | mcuelenaere: no, dofile should NOT do that |
14:05:09 | daurn | mcuelenaere: that is require's job :) |
14:05:52 | daurn | mcuelenaere: and can you tell me what you're doing with the io library? |
14:06:31 | mcuelenaere | I'm basing myself on the original io library, stripping away stuff we don't have and using Rockbox's file functions |
14:06:51 | daurn | ok :) |
14:07:11 | daurn | mcuelenaere: and I hope you notice theres the file library, and the io library. |
14:07:27 | daurn | the file library being the important bit |
14:08:36 | mcuelenaere | ah I already wondered about the weird *a, *n, *l, .. part :) |
14:09:39 | preglow | daurn: well, then you need to find a libm |
14:09:43 | preglow | for use in the lua plug |
14:10:11 | * | Torne suggests you nick it from newlib |
14:10:46 | preglow | but like i said, floating point operations are painfully slow for almost all of our targets, i hope you're not going to run anything that does a lot of computation |
14:10:47 | daurn | mcuelenaere: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-file:read |
14:11:01 | daurn | preglow: lua is for running user scripts, its up to them what they run |
14:11:06 | mcuelenaere | daurn: yes, looking at that page :) |
14:11:31 | daurn | preglow: if they want to run a script that uses fp, and is damn slow, thats their own fault |
14:12:14 | mcuelenaere | daurn: how does LNUM know if you want to use a integer or a number? |
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14:14:06 | NHeal | simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
14:14:06 | NJoin | tmzt [0] (n=tmzt@adsl-99-164-52-98.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net) |
14:14:06 | NJoin | Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean) |
14:14:06 | NJoin | dlctestnt [0] (n=dlctestn@206.251.250.209) |
14:14:06 | NJoin | trisiak [0] (n=tree@chello089078243195.chello.pl) |
14:14:06 | NJoin | Bombe [0] (n=droden@freenet/developer/Bombe) |
14:14:10 | daurn | mcuelenaere: http://luaforge.net/frs/download.php/4031/README |
14:15:10 | daurn | mcuelenaere: and while you're at the file library, lnum adds: |
14:15:15 | daurn | - 'file:read()' has a new mode "i" for reading in integers. Reading as "n" is still valid, but may cause accuracy issues (floating point accuracy used). |
14:16:04 | Torne | mcuelenaere: integer literals start as integers, float literlas start as float, and if an integer operation's result is inexact it gets promoted to float |
14:16:25 | Torne | kinda like how python converts between int and long |
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14:31:13 | daurn | mcuelenaere: how you going? :) |
14:33:24 | mcuelenaere | still working on it |
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14:37:52 | mcuelenaere | hmm how could I easily test if I'm at the EOF in Rockbox? Compare lseek()'s output with filesize()'s one? |
14:38:06 | mcuelenaere | (with lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_CUR) of course) |
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14:52:03 | | Part LinusN |
14:56:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | I've been wanting to use FS #7505 on my Gigabeat F for a while, but there are no instruction on where to place gigabeat_flash.c on the tracker. |
14:57:15 | GodEater | LambdaCalculus37: in apps/plugins |
14:57:20 | GodEater | and then edit SOURCES |
14:57:20 | gevaerts | LambdaCalculus37: in apps/plugins/. You also need to edit SOURCES there |
14:57:27 | * | GodEater beats gevaerts to it |
14:57:36 | gevaerts | not entirely! |
14:57:50 | * | GodEater went all fancy with his SOURCE editing and used proper #ifdefs and everything |
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14:58:14 | GodEater | gevaerts: on my screen both my lines came out before yours :P |
14:58:29 | gevaerts | GodEater: let's ask LambdaCalculus37 |
14:58:30 | daurn | GodEater won on both counts |
14:58:35 | Torne | irc is only partially ordered |
14:58:44 | Torne | godeater won for me too but that may not be true from all servers :) |
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15:00 |
15:00:11 | * | gevaerts will accept LambdaCalculus37's judgement, as he was the intended audience |
15:00:40 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater told me first, and gevaerts gave the extra bit in info to go with it. |
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15:02:34 | gevaerts | \☺/ |
15:02:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | Okay, so put it in apps/plugins, edit SOURCES, then how do you proceed with flashing the Gigabeat? |
15:02:47 | GodEater | run the plugin |
15:03:11 | GodEater | use it to backup your flash |
15:03:16 | gevaerts | copy bootloader.bin from FS to the root of your player, build everything, and run the plugin |
15:03:31 | * | GodEater is willing to bet it won't work first time |
15:03:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: I live dangerously. ;) |
15:03:44 | GodEater | unless LambdaCalculus37 uses -DENABLE_DEV in the Makefile |
15:04:50 | * | LambdaCalculus37 will remember to |
15:05:10 | GodEater | I was impressed at the number of warnings kkurbjun managed to fit in there |
15:05:21 | GodEater | it's full of "dire portents" and "here be dragons" |
15:05:33 | GodEater | "abandon hope all ye who enter" etc. |
15:05:44 | kkurbjun | haha |
15:05:56 | gevaerts | and yet you went on :) |
15:06:07 | kkurbjun | I don't want to be held acountable for anyone breaking their player :-D |
15:06:09 | GodEater | I can't read |
15:06:10 | GodEater | :D |
15:06:28 | kkurbjun | LambdaCalculus37: could you dump your flash before patching it if it fails the checksum. I want to figure out what is different in all these flashes |
15:06:43 | LambdaCalculus37 | kkurbjun: Sure thing. |
15:07:01 | GodEater | the patch is building up a nice collection of those now |
15:07:05 | * | LambdaCalculus37 wonders if he should... |
15:07:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | I wonder if I should borrow my girlfriend's Gigabeat X and dump the flash from that as well for kkurbjun. |
15:07:32 | GodEater | hell yes |
15:07:39 | gevaerts | sure. Dumping the flash isn't risky |
15:07:51 | CIA-71 | New commit by alle (r21489): Correct the slight misalignment of the clock (FS #10334 by Andre Lupa) |
15:07:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: I'll ask her if she'll lend me her Gigabeat X for that. |
15:08:03 | kkurbjun | LambdaCalculus37: yeah, I would be very interested to see tha tflash |
15:08:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | kkurbjun: Also get ahold of toffe82. He has a Gigabeat X as well. |
15:08:28 | kkurbjun | if you have the GBSYSTEM for that too I wouldn't mind taking a look at that as well |
15:12:57 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
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15:16:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | Crud. Got bumped. |
15:17:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | Anyway, kkurbjun: I'll get the GBSYSTEM folder from my girlfriend as well. |
15:17:59 | GodEater | "bumped" ? |
15:21:01 | saratoga | mt: that patch was just an SVN diff against my local checkout with your patch applied and some random changes |
15:21:15 | saratoga | it didn't work though so I'm not sure its too important for you to apply it |
15:21:40 | saratoga | mostly i just cleaned up some of the problems in bitstream.c/h so that it would compile on target and throw a few less warnings |
15:21:47 | saratoga | i'm not even sure it was all correct |
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15:25:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: The Freenode webchat bumped me off. |
15:25:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | Anyway, I didn't get to ask. |
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15:25:38 | LambdaCalculus37 | What exactly is gigabeat_flash writing to the flash? |
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16:00 |
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16:11:06 | notlistening | what is battery drain like when you using lossless formats? |
16:11:51 | notlistening | in comparison to mp3 lets say? Do you guys have stats on it? |
16:12:54 | gevaerts | have a look at the CodecPerformanceComparison page on the wiki |
16:13:19 | notlistening | thanks |
16:13:35 | | Quit Strife89 ("Away!") |
16:13:35 | gevaerts | That doesn't reflect real battery drain yet, you need to still take disk spinups into account |
16:13:59 | GodEater | LambdaCalculus37: did you get an answer ? |
16:14:03 | notlistening | yeah it is more general information that specifics i want |
16:19:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: Not to what exactly gigabeat_flash writes to the flash. |
16:19:46 | GodEater | it writes the contents of bootloader.bin |
16:19:51 | GodEater | :D |
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16:24:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: Of course. ;) |
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16:26:25 | GodEater | of course what ? |
16:26:30 | n1s | notlistening: flac uses very little cpu but needs to spin the disk more than mp3 so it should be somewhat close toor slightly worse than mp3 in battery runtime depending on the player |
16:28:01 | * | Hillshum thought flac used about the same cpu as mp3 |
16:28:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: gigabeat_flash writes the contents of bootloader.bin... I should've guessed. :) |
16:28:41 | GodEater | I actually missed bootloader.bin in the FS# at first |
16:28:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | Hillshum: But remember that FLAC has to access the drive much more to buffer data. |
16:28:48 | GodEater | and wondered why nothing was happening |
16:29:03 | Hillshum | LambdaCalculus37: right, though on flash that really doesn't matter much |
16:29:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: So I have to build my own bootloader.bin to flash, right? |
16:29:10 | GodEater | nope |
16:29:18 | GodEater | it's attached to the FS task |
16:29:27 | gevaerts | use the latest one there |
16:29:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: Ahh, okay. |
16:29:29 | GodEater | I would recommend NOT building your own |
16:29:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | Right. |
16:31:01 | * | GodEater wonders if LambdaCalculus37 also has his charger with him |
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16:43:10 | Hillshum | Oh, I think I found a specific issue with the Clip keymap |
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16:44:08 | Hillshum | The "Erase dynamic playlist?" screen says play to confirm, any other to go back, but select is what makes it confirmed |
16:45:42 | funman | i think this problem appears on other screens as well (and other targets : fuze, c200v2, ..) |
16:46:11 | funman | in my opinion the message should say press select to confirm |
16:46:39 | Hillshum | Yes, I've looked at the code to find it some haven't found it yet |
16:46:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
16:47:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: I have one. |
16:48:38 | rasher | Hillshum: apps/lang/english.lang, id LANG_CONFIRM_WITH_BUTTON |
16:49:26 | rasher | In fact, this should be changed with langtool, since it can be done for all languages |
16:50:32 | Hillshum | hmm. Once I get home (with acces to a unix box) I'll do it |
16:51:13 | rasher | ../../tools/langtool.pl −−changetarget −−from "yh*,ipod*,x5,m5,gigabeat*,e200*,c200,h10,h10_5gb,mrobe100" −−to "yh*,ipod*,x5,m5,gigabeat*,e200*,c200,h10,h10_5gb,mrobe100,clip" −−id LANG_CONFIRM_WITH_BUTTON −−inplace *.lang |
16:51:42 | rasher | −−to "yh*,ipod*,x5,m5,gigabeat*,e200*,c200*,h10,h10_5gb,mrobe100,clip,fuze" I guess |
16:52:11 | funman | c200 should be changed to c200* everywhere |
16:52:55 | rasher | Well that's easy :) |
16:53:01 | Hillshum | everywhere in that area anyway |
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16:53:39 | rasher | Isn't the c200v2 identical (physically) to the c200? |
16:53:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | It is. |
16:53:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | As is the e200v2 to the e200. |
16:53:55 | rasher | This was already done for e200 |
16:54:14 | | Quit martian67 (Remote closed the connection) |
16:54:24 | rasher | I'll do the c200 if you like? |
16:54:32 | funman | yes please |
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16:55:36 | | Quit martian67 (SendQ exceeded) |
16:55:55 | CIA-71 | New commit by rasher (r21490): Change c200 to c200* everywhere since the c200v2 is identical to the c200. |
16:57:07 | rasher | It seems that LANG_CONFIRM_WITH_BUTTON should have the logic reversed (such that * is SELECT, and recorder,player and whichever else are PLAY) |
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17:00 |
17:00:43 | rasher | Should mean ever so slightly less work for new targets, since most seems to use SELECT |
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17:04:29 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
17:04:50 | funman | player recorder*, ondio*, meizu* av300, ifp7xx, iaudio7, cowond2, m3, mrobe500, logikdax, cretive*, c100, m200*, tpj1022, sa9200, hdd1630, lyre_proto1 fall into the * category |
17:05:00 | funman | + onda* |
17:05:16 | rasher | I wonder how many of those actually use play |
17:05:30 | funman | or buttons :) |
17:12:33 | rasher | Possibly not worth the bother |
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17:14:13 | daurn | ps, note to mcuelenaere / safetydan |
17:14:18 | daurn | in helloworld.lua |
17:14:25 | daurn | use "or" |
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17:14:47 | daurn | eg, local func = rb.lcd_bitmap_transparent_part or rb.lcd_bitmap_part or rb.lcd_mono_bitmap_part |
17:14:55 | daurn | instead of your long sequences of ifs |
17:17:31 | * | daurn fixes |
17:17:40 | daurn | rasher: you able to give me svn perms? |
17:18:24 | daurn | or GodEater? |
17:18:35 | CIA-71 | New commit by alle (r21491): Ensure that the file handle is always closed in text editor plugin (part of FS #10138 by Teruaki Kawashima, minor modifications by me) |
17:19:07 | GodEater | daurn: hahahahaha - I've been a project member for nearly 5 years, and I don't have svn access :) |
17:19:17 | AlexP | daurn: No, you need to post the patch on flyspray |
17:19:23 | Hillshum | GodEater: have you every really needed it? |
17:19:41 | GodEater | I've not missed it no |
17:20:00 | GodEater | I've too many other things on the go to work on code for RB unfortunately |
17:20:04 | daurn | ah ok :( |
17:20:07 | GodEater | and AlexP is far better at breaking the manual than I |
17:20:22 | AlexP | It is always deliberate :) |
17:20:29 | GodEater | well so you claim |
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17:32:12 | * | daurn submits his first ever rockbox patch |
17:32:36 | LambdaCalculus37 | daurn: \o/ |
17:32:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | daurn: What's the FS#? |
17:32:56 | daurn | not submitted yet |
17:33:26 | daurn | uh, the file headers have copyright mcuelenaere in them... should I change/remove that? |
17:34:03 | funman | if you reclaim copyright on it yes |
17:37:36 | daurn | funman: huh? |
17:37:43 | gevaerts | daurn: if it |
17:37:58 | gevaerts | 's a small patch, no. If you rewrite most of the file, probably yes |
17:38:28 | Hillshum | At most, add yourself along with mcuelenaere |
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17:38:54 | daurn | and whats the whole $Id line? |
17:39:21 | gevaerts | that's the last committer |
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17:40:02 | daurn | do I change/edit that? or is it automatic |
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17:41:02 | funman | you should change it to "$Id$" (or is it "$Id:$" ?) |
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17:41:23 | gevaerts | it should be automatic |
17:41:26 | funman | subversion will expand it when checking it out provided the correct svn property is set on this file |
17:41:45 | gevaerts | normally you don't touch it |
17:41:53 | daurn | ok |
17:42:11 | * | daurn now asks: how to submit the modifications? |
17:42:22 | funman | post a patch on flyspray |
17:42:46 | daurn | but how to I submit it? make a diff? |
17:43:04 | Hillshum | daurn: yes |
17:43:08 | gevaerts | yes. svn diff should produce the right format |
17:43:10 | Hillshum | svn diff |
17:43:19 | * | Hillshum lost |
17:44:13 | funman | saratoga: did you look at Helix (Real Networks) he-aac fixed point decoder? |
17:44:42 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
17:46:08 | daurn | yay FS #10379 |
17:46:31 | rasher | funman: The helix stuff is not gpl compatible. Can't touch |
17:47:01 | funman | rasher: perhaps there is is a way to redistribute it unmodified? |
17:47:23 | funman | or redistribute the modifications with the original licence |
17:47:29 | gevaerts | funman: without linking? |
17:47:41 | funman | oh, hmm |
17:47:43 | rasher | Not without turning Rockbox inside out |
17:47:46 | BryanJacobs | could do it user side |
17:48:03 | BryanJacobs | have a script that retrieves the sources and builds them on the user's machine |
17:48:11 | BryanJacobs | thus, not redistributing |
17:48:11 | Torne | yuck :) |
17:48:23 | BryanJacobs | well, gevaerts asked |
17:48:35 | gevaerts | that was a rhetorical question! |
17:48:39 | BryanJacobs | :-P |
17:48:46 | rasher | Gross |
17:48:51 | funman | gevaerts: linking to the helix decoder is permitted by the licence |
17:49:00 | gevaerts | funman: by the GPL? |
17:49:07 | rasher | funman: But we'd be breaking the GPL |
17:49:12 | gevaerts | This works both ways |
17:49:20 | BryanJacobs | if the helix decoder has restrictions > GPL, you can't link with it |
17:49:42 | Torne | funman: everything linked to rockbox has to be GPL licenced, or someting less restrictive |
17:49:51 | rasher | Unless they changed it since I looked at it last, it does |
17:50:10 | funman | so we couldn't distribute rockbox as gpl, and helix-aac.codec as the helix/real licence? |
17:50:19 | BryanJacobs | not linked together |
17:50:35 | Torne | the .codec files are already linked to rockbox |
17:50:39 | BryanJacobs | you could try for the "system software" exception |
17:50:44 | BryanJacobs | but you'd have a hard time making that one fly |
17:51:07 | BryanJacobs | as rasher said, you'd have to turn Rockbox inside out |
17:51:07 | rasher | BryanJacobs: especially considering how monolithic Rockbox is |
17:51:10 | funman | the solution would be to use a separate codec loader and distribute this one under lgpl |
17:51:48 | rasher | Yeah, I think at that stage we've just about reached the "inside out" stage |
17:51:53 | Torne | yeah. |
17:51:57 | * | BryanJacobs agrees |
17:51:59 | Torne | you'd have to abstract every API |
17:51:59 | funman | i.e. helix-aac.codec as lgpl and helix-aac.bin (loaded by helix-aac.codec) as helix licence |
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17:52:15 | * | gevaerts considers that sort of tricks to be cheating |
17:52:15 | Torne | funman: no, that doesn't work either |
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17:52:25 | Torne | because helix-aac.codec would become under the terms of the GPL by linking to rockbox |
17:52:25 | funman | Torne: oh? |
17:52:27 | BryanJacobs | "functionally complete" clause |
17:52:33 | Torne | LGPL is less restrictive |
17:52:38 | Torne | but the combined result is then GPL'ed |
17:52:50 | funman | which combination ? |
17:52:54 | BryanJacobs | the GPL requires distribution of complete sources anyhow |
17:52:56 | BryanJacobs | so it doesn't matter |
17:53:01 | Torne | helix-aac.codec being linked to rockbox's core. |
17:53:12 | BryanJacobs | helix-aac.bin is part of the source |
17:53:15 | Torne | that brings the less restrictive part under the full GPL. |
17:53:18 | BryanJacobs | thus, must be GPL licensed |
17:53:25 | BryanJacobs | Torne: no because it's not redistributed |
17:53:34 | Torne | what? |
17:53:38 | rasher | You *could* distribute source-only, in which case the GPL wouldn't really come into play, but... I'd personally fight that tooth and nail |
17:53:51 | BryanJacobs | you can link GPL to LGPL, can't you? |
17:54:02 | Torne | BryanJacobs: Yes, but the combined result is *all* under the GPL. |
17:54:07 | BryanJacobs | I think it might invoke the upgrade clause of the... oh yeah |
17:54:10 | Torne | the LGPL'ed bit doesn't *stay* LGPLed |
17:54:16 | BryanJacobs | got it :-) |
17:54:38 | saratoga | funman: very very briefly |
17:54:41 | Torne | htat's exactly how the upgrading clause works :) |
17:54:44 | saratoga | its not GPLed so we can't use it directly |
17:54:53 | saratoga | its supposed to be quite fast though |
17:54:56 | funman | i am a bit lost :/ |
17:55:20 | Torne | funman: "there is no practical way to do it" is the summary :) |
17:55:26 | BryanJacobs | actually... |
17:55:30 | funman | saratoga: yes https://datatype.helixcommunity.org/2005/aacfixptdec |
17:55:34 | BryanJacobs | you could have GPL'ed dynamic codec loader |
17:55:46 | BryanJacobs | which then loads the helix-licensed he-aac codec |
17:55:55 | BryanJacobs | so there's no linked distribution |
17:55:58 | Torne | BryanJacobs: only under the system software exception. |
17:56:06 | BryanJacobs | Rockbox is an OS, no? |
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17:56:12 | funman | yes |
17:56:14 | Torne | yes. |
17:56:17 | Torne | so that *might* just about count. |
17:56:19 | BryanJacobs | so this might work |
17:56:57 | BryanJacobs | does sound like butchery, though |
17:56:59 | funman | Torne: BryanJacobs could you point me to specific chapter of gplv2 for these exceptions ? |
17:57:01 | gevaerts | *only* if we don't distribute that codec, and even then I'm not entirely sure |
17:57:36 | gevaerts | The system software exception doesn't work if you distribute the whole lot yourself |
17:57:43 | Torne | yeah |
17:57:48 | funman | ah i found 3. and i agree with gevaerts |
17:58:05 | Torne | yah, i have i tbackward still |
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17:58:17 | BryanJacobs | second-last para of 3 |
17:58:57 | BryanJacobs | I suppose the last para of 3 nixes this, eh? |
17:59:04 | notlistening | okay can someone confirm my understanding if i wanted to make a player tht was looking to perform well with lossless formats is a larger ram better and how big? |
17:59:17 | rasher | Please stop being scary. Everyone of you! |
17:59:20 | BryanJacobs | it says if you make it available from a designated spot then it counts as redistributing - I'd forgotten that |
17:59:27 | funman | so i could say develop a gpl helix-he-aac codec loader for rockbox and distribute it separately |
17:59:32 | funman | (from rockbox) |
17:59:51 | gevaerts | funman: I think that would be getting deep into lawyer territory |
18:00 |
18:00:06 | Torne | notlistening: larger ram is always better for eveyrthing |
18:00:13 | gevaerts | notlistening: depends. Hard disk or flash? |
18:00:14 | funman | gevaerts: well i am not sure |
18:00:25 | gevaerts | funman: that's why :) |
18:00:25 | saratoga | you can't really load a codec like that to get around the GPL because the codec is still used in the OS's process |
18:00:37 | BryanJacobs | the codec loader itself would be A-OK, no? |
18:00:46 | notlistening | gevaerts, can you answer for both? |
18:00:50 | BryanJacobs | it's only the people who use it who'd be in violation |
18:00:59 | Torne | saratoga: I think you can, actually, it's not any different from the nVidia shim to load their proprietary DRI module |
18:01:06 | BryanJacobs | I mean, the codec loader doesn't even have to load he-aac, any codec could use it |
18:01:08 | Torne | but it would have to be distributed seperately |
18:01:18 | BryanJacobs | Torne: why, if it's GPLed? |
18:01:22 | gevaerts | notlistening: on hard disk, as much as you can get, on flash, it doesn't matter as much |
18:01:24 | Torne | and it would have to completely provide the API the non-gpl bit used |
18:01:39 | BryanJacobs | Torne: agreed on the second part there |
18:02:06 | saratoga | i'm not really that interested in trying to get Helix's decoder to work |
18:02:18 | saratoga | i'd rather borrow any good ideas they have an implement them in GPLed code |
18:02:27 | BryanJacobs | that would be stealing |
18:02:37 | BryanJacobs | you know, copyright infringement? |
18:02:44 | gevaerts | BryanJacobs: you know, ideas? |
18:02:48 | gevaerts | not code |
18:02:57 | BryanJacobs | general ideas can be patented, code is copyrighted |
18:02:59 | Torne | BryanJacobs: not if you clone by separation of responsibility, actually :) |
18:03:07 | BryanJacobs | but where does your work become a derivative? |
18:03:08 | funman | the general idea of a aac decoder is already patented ;) |
18:03:20 | BryanJacobs | I mean, if I change the variable names is my code now different? |
18:03:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | And MP3 decoder as well. |
18:03:31 | funman | as a french citizen i don't really care (for now) |
18:03:35 | Hillshum | and mp3 encoder |
18:03:36 | BryanJacobs | what if I take their code and run it through an optimizing compiler, then disassemble that? |
18:03:37 | Torne | BryanJacobs: for copyright, it's sufficient to have one guy read the code and write a description of the tricks used to get good performance, then have soeone else who hsa never read the code write a new codec |
18:03:49 | Torne | BryanJacobs: no, that's not ok, you are tainted by having read the code |
18:03:50 | BryanJacobs | Torne: I agree that clean rooms work |
18:04:01 | funman | Torne: in US perhaps |
18:04:05 | BryanJacobs | but it didn't sound like saratoga was suggesting that |
18:04:16 | Torne | funman: cleanrooming works just about everywhere |
18:04:27 | BryanJacobs | in the US we've got the famous IBM case |
18:04:30 | funman | Torne: disassembling works here, that's all i want to know |
18:04:44 | Torne | er, what? |
18:04:56 | BryanJacobs | the original reverse engineering! |
18:05:00 | Torne | you can disassemble it and look anywhere :) |
18:05:06 | Torne | but you can't copy what you find, anywhere :) |
18:05:09 | Torne | as far as I know :0 |
18:05:14 | funman | i can study, reverse engineer, and write a new implementation |
18:05:41 | funman | no need to pass my findings to another person who would write the implementation |
18:05:44 | Torne | i disbelieve that there is *no* case whree that would be considered a derived work, in *any* jurisdiction that's subject to WIPO |
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18:06:09 | Torne | since, for example, i could study, reverse engineer, then reproduce the same code from memory. :) |
18:06:14 | Torne | that would obviously be a derived work |
18:06:19 | Torne | and i'm pretty sure that would be illegal in france too :) |
18:06:31 | Torne | at which point it becomes a matter of actually getting an opinion on it to be safe, is the point |
18:06:33 | BryanJacobs | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design says that disassembly is OK |
18:06:35 | gevaerts | Torne: are you allowed to design a car if you have a drivers license? |
18:06:43 | Torne | whereas i fyou cleanroom it's guaranteed to be ok |
18:06:52 | funman | not a derived work, but an interoperability measure |
18:07:19 | funman | for example libdvdcss |
18:07:29 | Torne | yes, but my point is that's a sliding scale |
18:07:34 | Torne | with no clearly defined point where it's ok |
18:07:40 | Torne | whereas cleanroom implementations are not |
18:07:53 | Torne | things like libdvdcss are 'ok' by most definitions, yes |
18:08:06 | BryanJacobs | except under the DMCA :-P |
18:08:10 | Torne | yesyes |
18:08:16 | Torne | but if they'd disassembled a dvd player and then 'accidentally' written a program that was the same exact instructions, that would probably be considered copyright infringement |
18:08:31 | Torne | even if the people who did it claimed it was a coincidence and they only disassassembled it for research |
18:08:32 | BryanJacobs | you could argue that he-aac encoding is a copy prevention algorithm, and there'd be no way to prove you wrong |
18:08:33 | funman | you can check that the same exact instructions aren't generated |
18:08:46 | Torne | funman: yes. so exactly how different doe sit need to be to count? |
18:08:51 | Torne | ther eis *no particular point* |
18:08:53 | Torne | it's up to a court to decide |
18:08:57 | Torne | that's my point, nothing more |
18:09:01 | * | gevaerts thinks that this is getting off topic |
18:09:05 | Torne | so just being in france doesn't magically make it ok |
18:09:06 | funman | Torne: linux and windows are both operating systems, but i doubt they share a lot of binary code |
18:09:30 | * | rasher agrees with gevaerts |
18:09:31 | funman | a decoder is something complex so i doubt 2 implementations share a lot of binary code as well |
18:10:00 | funman | rasher: gevaerts hmm not sure .. licensing and reverse engineering are related to rockbox |
18:10:45 | rasher | But not this general talk |
18:10:48 | gevaerts | funman: dvdcss definitely isn't, and neither are windows and linux |
18:11:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | Yes, we've just veered way off-topic here. |
18:11:08 | funman | sorry then |
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18:19:40 | funman | Hillshum: did you see fs#10290 (about lang, there is another string to be changed apart LANG_CONFIRM_WITH_BUTTON) |
18:19:48 | | Part Hillshum |
18:19:52 | saratoga | the code is copyrighted, and the implementation is patented, but the underlying ideas are not |
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18:19:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | funman: Too late. :P |
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18:20:08 | saratoga | i can read their solutions to problems, understand them, and then use the general idea if I like |
18:20:11 | Hillshum | what was that? |
18:20:26 | saratoga | clean room disassebly is not needed here since the code is already open source, so no one will care to sue over it |
18:22:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | Hillshum: funman wanted to know if you saw FS #10290. |
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18:28:37 | Hillshum | Sorry about that, did anyone want me? |
18:30:16 | Llorean | Hillshum: there are public logs. |
18:30:35 | * | Hillshum thanks Llorean for the reminder |
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18:33:15 | Hillshum | funman: No, I'll take a look |
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18:40:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | The keymaps defined in apps/plugins/lib/pluginlin_actions.c are for rotated screens, I take it? (e.g. BUTTON_RC_FOO) |
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18:58:45 | bertrik | markun, the MeizuM6Port suggests that some thing like RTC and FM radio are already half done, but I see no code for it in the tree, is there some other place? |
18:59:42 | GodEater | is anyone else running the beta build server ? |
18:59:54 | rasher | I am |
18:59:59 | GodEater | is it doing anything ? :) |
19:00 |
19:00:02 | rasher | No |
19:00:02 | bertrik | GodEater, I'm running the build client |
19:00:12 | rasher | Err, yeah, I'm running the client as well |
19:00:15 | GodEater | bertrik: that's what I meant :o |
19:00:22 | * | gevaerts runs it as well |
19:00:34 | Bagder | I plan to do further server work later tonight |
19:00:40 | GodEater | cool |
19:00:46 | GodEater | to make it do what ? :) |
19:00:49 | bertrik | oh just give us some random builds :P |
19:00:59 | Bagder | verify that all things work |
19:01:06 | Bagder | trigger on svn commits |
19:01:12 | * | GodEater wants to know who is the bogomips king currently |
19:01:22 | Bagder | gevaerts eats us all |
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19:01:49 | * | gevaerts doesn't tell about this bind mount on /proc/cpuinfo |
19:02:00 | Bagder | :-) |
19:02:26 | Bagder | I also need to put all the results of a build round together so that build tables can be made from them |
19:03:10 | markun | bertrik: maybe it's still in my tree and I forgot to commit it (since it was untested) |
19:03:18 | Hillshum | Could a build server be powerpcMac? |
19:03:23 | * | Bagder goes to hunt down some dinner |
19:03:30 | Bagder | Hillshum: a build client, sure |
19:03:32 | markun | I'll try to find it, but it's a bit of a mess |
19:03:44 | scorche|sh | Bagder: how much is second best =P |
19:04:02 | Bagder | well, actually the server can also be on a mac but I doubt we'll run many servers ;-) |
19:04:15 | bertrik | I don't think we should commit untested code, but I sure would like to have a look at it |
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19:06:44 | Hillshum | Bagder: I meant mac, so I'll set it up when I get home |
19:06:58 | * | Hillshum needs another USB keyboard for his new mac |
19:09:27 | markun | bertrik: in fact, I did commit the tea5760uk.c file. It's just a copy of tea5767.c with some changes by comparing the datasheets |
19:10:34 | bertrik | ah, ok |
19:10:35 | markun | the LV24020LP might be compatible with the LV24000, but you would have to check the datasheets again |
19:10:57 | markun | let me see if I can find the RTC related files |
19:12:48 | bertrik | markun, I agree about the logarithmic brightness curve |
19:14:14 | bertrik | it currently changes a lot at the low end and very little at the high end of the brightness curve |
19:14:49 | rasher | Bagder: thoughts about a fallback upgrade plan for cygwin clients? Such as moving it to a temporary location, which runclient.sh will move into place? |
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19:16:33 | markun | bertrik: the values I gave you should give enough steps, don't you think? 15 + off |
19:17:38 | bertrik | markun, I think so, I should try it out and see if it's enough |
19:17:59 | markun | bertrik: can't find the RTC files. Someone made them when he asked me if there was anything simple he could do, I forgot who it was. I can't find them in my normal rockbox tree. |
19:20:00 | markun | well, unfortunate, but no too much work lost |
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19:45:04 | bertrik | it looks much better now with the logarithmic conversion for the backlight |
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19:48:51 | mcuelenaere | bertrik: I'm also interested in logarithmic steps for the Onda VX747's backlight, are you going to commit your changes? |
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19:52:46 | bertrik | not very soon I think, but it's quite simple. It's basically just a lookup table with approximately exponential values in it that maps 16 brightness levels to 256 brightness levels |
19:53:16 | mcuelenaere | only 16 brightness levels? |
19:53:39 | kugel | 16 is enough imo |
19:53:54 | bertrik | markun gave me a list of values, you could calculate a table with more entries though |
19:54:01 | mcuelenaere | oh, the M6 has 256 brighness levels? |
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19:54:32 | mcuelenaere | (ranging from 0->255) |
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19:55:12 | mcuelenaere | s/M6/M3/ |
19:55:24 | bertrik | with PWM you can basically make as many levels as you like |
19:55:27 | kugel | the gigabeats have a logarithmic curve too I think |
19:55:59 | markun_ | bertrik: we could have used powers of 2 (-1) but I used sqrt(2) to have twice the number of levels |
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20:02:41 | bertrik | mcuelenaere, the vx747 also uses PWM I see |
20:02:52 | mcuelenaere | bertrik: yes, hence I asked :) |
20:04:06 | bertrik | how does it work? it seems to vary the PWM frequency rather than the PWM duty cycle |
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20:06:59 | mcuelenaere | bertrik: true, it only varies the PWM frequency; haven't played much more than that with it |
20:08:01 | mcuelenaere | it always stays off for x cycles and then powers on for 1 cycle (repeat) |
20:09:59 | markun | bertrik: ftl.c in openiboot (iphone linux) is over 1000 lines :( I hope we can do it in less. |
20:10:36 | * | bertrik too |
20:11:46 | mcuelenaere | hmm can plugins access errno? |
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20:13:03 | saratoga | is the flash translation layer understood on the M3? |
20:13:19 | bertrik | mcuelenaere, it shouldn't be too hard to convert the 747 backlight code to duty cycle variation with a logarithmic curve |
20:13:37 | bertrik | saratoga, no, not as far as I know |
20:14:01 | mcuelenaere | bertrik: and staying at the same PWM frequency then? |
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20:14:22 | gevaerts | saratoga: it's probably the same as in newer apple products like the iphone, and people are working in that |
20:14:34 | bertrik | mcuelenaere, yes |
20:14:44 | mcuelenaere | bertrik: out of interest, what frequency do you use on the M3? |
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20:15:05 | bertrik | mcuelenaere, I'm not entirely sure :P |
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20:15:42 | bertrik | PCLK / (256 * 101 * 64), but I'm not sure what value PCLK is in the M3 |
20:15:48 | mcuelenaere | ah :) |
20:16:30 | mcuelenaere | what's it supposed to be according to the datasheets? (what range?) |
20:16:31 | bertrik | hm, for 50 MHz PCLK this would be about 30 Hz, it does flicker a bit now |
20:16:46 | mcuelenaere | ok |
20:17:43 | bertrik | PCLK is max 100 MHz but I don't know what the current value is |
20:19:21 | markun | bertrik: according to firmware/target/arm/s5l8700/crt0.S it's 50MHz |
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20:19:38 | markun | // FCLK_CPU = 200MHz, HCLK = 100MHz, PCLK = 50MHz, other clocks off |
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20:30:05 | bertrik | mcuelenaere, I'll try to make a patch for the vx747 |
20:30:20 | mcuelenaere | bertrik: thanks :) |
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20:30:35 | mcuelenaere | but you don't need to, I can base myself upon your code too :) |
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20:31:48 | mcuelenaere | hmm does having errno exposed to plugins cause problems? |
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20:33:10 | bertrik | errno is weird because it is a global variable but needs to be unique for each thread IIRC |
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20:33:59 | mcuelenaere | hmm does that apply to Rockbox too? |
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20:35:11 | bertrik | I have no idea |
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20:35:44 | * | mcuelenaere will probably just strip all errno related stuff from Lua |
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20:38:50 | bertrik | mcuelenaere, I think this should work http://pastebin.ca/1472974 |
20:39:25 | pyro_maniac | domonoky: ping |
20:39:34 | domonoky | pong |
20:40:29 | pyro_maniac | domonoky: there is a "-silent" after lrelease in the rbutil.pro but lrelease has none. |
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20:40:51 | pyro_maniac | i mean, lrelease has n silent option |
20:41:20 | * | mcuelenaere fetches his DAP |
20:41:21 | domonoky | my lrelease has one.. |
20:41:35 | domonoky | what does lrelease -? show ? |
20:41:44 | pyro_maniac | mom |
20:43:43 | pyro_maniac | domonoky: http://pastie.org/523254 |
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20:44:40 | domonoky | what version is this ? (strange that it has the inverted switch -verbose) |
20:44:45 | mcuelenaere | bertrik: it seems to work nicely :) |
20:44:55 | pyro_maniac | domonoky: kubuntu seems to use still the 3.3 version |
20:45:33 | domonoky | ah, but thats probably also too old to build rbutil. |
20:46:09 | pyro_maniac | i have to use the qt4 verion manually |
20:46:16 | domonoky | rbutilqt.pro checks for at least Qt4.3, and i think we need even 4.4 as minimum now. |
20:46:47 | domonoky | ah, so it should use lrelease-qt4 ? |
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20:47:05 | pyro_maniac | thats the way it worked for me |
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20:48:11 | pyro_maniac | and in lrelease-qt4 seems a silent options seems to exists |
20:48:37 | domonoky | its the same for qmake itself, some distros try to support 3.x with qmake and 4.x with qmake-qt4. dont know how we could fix that in the .pro file. |
20:49:57 | pyro_maniac | me either |
20:51:15 | pyro_maniac | maybe grep for the version of that tools? |
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20:54:00 | domonoky | we could also try lrelease-qt4 first, and if it failes/ doesnt exist, use normal lrelease. But dont know how make this in a .pro file :-) |
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20:57:33 | domonoky | is there is still a normal lrelease binary in the 4.x Qt directory ? ( then we could use the path we know from qmake to call the correct lrelease.) |
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20:59:30 | pyro_maniac | mom |
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21:00:23 | pyro_maniac | right |
21:00:39 | pyro_maniac | the name is still lrelease |
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21:03:13 | domonoky | hm, the .pro file already tries to todo this. does qmake- query "QT_INSTALL_BINS" return the correct Qt path for you ? |
21:04:09 | domonoky | qmake-qt4 -query "QT_INSTALL_BINS" ofcourse for you :-) |
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21:10:29 | pyro_maniac | it returns the /usr/bin but there is the wrong lrelease |
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21:12:44 | domonoky | so both qmake and qmake-qt4 return /usr/bin ? :-/ |
21:17:09 | pyro_maniac | qmake returns: "**Unknown**" |
21:18:34 | domonoky | so i am out of ideas. you could create bug tracker entry, so we dont forget about this issue. |
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21:25:28 | pyro_maniac | done in FS #10380 |
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21:52:08 | CIA-71 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21492): Use a logarithmic scale for the Onda VX747 backlight (thanks to Bertrik Sikken) |
21:54:03 | foaly | hey all, trying to build rb but have a problem, I've done all the rockboxdev stuff and ran ../tools/configure, but when I do make it gives me an error with what should be a logo file I think with a .c extention and immediaetly exits. It won't even tell m what he problem is |
21:56:59 | foaly | will try making again and give the exact error, hang on |
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22:00:34 | foaly | make: *** [/home/bigd/rbtrunk/build/apps/bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.240x74x16.c] Error 1 |
22:00:40 | | Quit robin0800 ("Leaving") |
22:02:10 | linuxstb | foaly: Typing "make V=1" may give further clues. |
22:03:23 | foaly | BMP2RB rockboxlogo.240x74x16.bmp |
22:03:40 | foaly | Then it gives me that erro ragain |
22:03:45 | fml | JdGordon, kugel: you are the viewport & status bar experts, right? I'd like to commit this: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10138?getfile=19777 Any objections? |
22:04:29 | foaly | then this: rm /home/bigd/rbtrunk/build/apps/bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.240x74x16.c |
22:05:31 | JdGordon| | fml: I'm at work so cant look at the patch now... if you want to bug me again in 5 hours if you're still around... |
22:05:54 | | Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
22:06:28 | Llorean | foaly: You might want to mention which target you're building for |
22:07:06 | foaly | a gigabeat f, target 40 |
22:07:36 | Llorean | The last official build for that returned fine. |
22:07:45 | Llorean | Do you have any patches applied? |
22:08:24 | foaly | nope, straight from svn with nothing created except the build folder and config stuff |
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22:09:32 | Llorean | Well, as I said, the official build returns fine. Did you do *anything* else other than ../tools/configure, choose build 40, then "make" |
22:09:48 | | Quit HellDragon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
22:10:00 | foaly | yeah I ran /tools/rockboxdev.sh |
22:10:17 | foaly | and selected arm |
22:10:18 | fml | JdGordon|: it's about changing (and restoring back at the end) of "global_settings->statusbar" in a plugin. It's set to false at start and restored before exit. The patch removes those lines. |
22:10:45 | Llorean | foaly: So you didn't also add the cross-compiler to your path? |
22:10:54 | foaly | also modified my path to include :/usr/local/arm-elf/bin |
22:10:55 | JdGordon| | my immediate reaction is that that change shuold eb fine |
22:11:12 | JdGordon| | fml: does it even work currently? |
22:11:26 | Llorean | foaly: Anything else? Something is different about your setup, so I'll need you to figure out what it is. |
22:11:53 | rasher | foaly: try running V=1 make |
22:11:55 | * | JdGordon| hopes everyone knows that he hates the current statusbar system and punches kugel in the face to hurry and with his custom list vp patch so it can be fixed |
22:12:18 | foaly | nothing else I can think of, I'm running on Debian 5.0 if it helps. |
22:13:32 | fml | JdGordon|: that's the point! Applying the patch does not change the appearance! I.e. even without explicitly setting status bar to false (i.e. after applying the patch) the status bar is not displayed in the plugin. So I think it's safe to remove those lines. |
22:13:48 | | Quit slam_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
22:14:16 | JdGordon| | ok, yeah so go for it |
22:14:22 | JdGordon| | which plugin is this for? |
22:14:36 | fml | JdGordon: properties and text_editor |
22:14:49 | JdGordon| | (press tab twice) :) |
22:15:06 | JdGordon| | ok, yeah should be fine |
22:15:21 | fml | JdGordon|: it won't work in the web irc :-) |
22:15:43 | foaly | should I try deleting and getting the svn repo all over again? |
22:16:10 | kugel | fml: looks ok, I think the plugin loader handles preserving the statusbar settings |
22:17:20 | CIA-71 | New commit by alle (r21493): Do not unnecessarily change and restore the status bar setting (part of FS #10138 by Teruaki Kawashima) |
22:17:24 | gevaerts | foaly: can you provide the full output of "make V=1"? |
22:17:27 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
22:17:39 | kugel | JdGordon|: you already hate the statusbar system you managed to rework it some month ago with a commit rage? |
22:17:59 | kugel | s/it// |
22:18:01 | JdGordon| | hehe yes... well its better than what it used to be |
22:18:08 | JdGordon| | it still needs work |
22:18:27 | rasher | I still get statusbars where they shouldn't be, or missing statusbars once in a while |
22:18:28 | foaly | BMP2RB rockboxlogo.240x74x16.bmp |
22:18:39 | rasher | foaly: don't paste here |
22:18:47 | foaly | make: *** [/home/bigd/rbtrunk/build/apps/bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.240x74x16.c] Error 1 |
22:19:15 | foaly | ur sorry |
22:19:24 | gevaerts | Did you do earlier builds in the same build directory? |
22:19:25 | foaly | was in another console and didn't see |
22:20:17 | foaly | I haven't built before |
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22:22:09 | kugel | mcuelenaere: is 0 in that log array off? |
22:22:20 | kugel | I mean, does it represent backlight off? |
22:22:26 | mcuelenaere | no it doesn't |
22:22:43 | mcuelenaere | it is very dim |
22:22:54 | kugel | "#define MIN_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING 0" doesn't make much sense then ? |
22:23:03 | mcuelenaere | isn't it defined to 1? |
22:23:11 | kugel | not anymore :) |
22:23:30 | mcuelenaere | eh sorry, I confused it with DIMNESS_SETTING |
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22:24:01 | gevaerts | foaly: can you run "make clean", and then again "make V=1" and paste the output of that one on a pastebin somewhere (e.g. http://pastie.org/) |
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22:24:08 | mcuelenaere | hmm yes, that should probably be changed |
22:24:23 | kugel | generally, you're supposed to not make backlight off available through brightness setting |
22:24:41 | mcuelenaere | it isn't |
22:24:54 | mcuelenaere | 0 is just very dim :) |
22:25:15 | kugel | that's fine, although it shouldn't say 0 then |
22:25:36 | fml | Hrm... Applying star_no_statusbar.patch from FS #10138 does not have any visual effect (in the sim a t least) |
22:26:11 | kugel | well, some weeks ago the statusbar popped up regularly in the menu there, I couldn't reproduce it recently though |
22:27:18 | PaulJam__ | JdGordon|: btw, tried the new patch from FS #9886 and it showed the same problems like the last versions (i guess that was expected, since it was only a resync). and i had a few warnings during compiling. |
22:27:59 | CIA-71 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21494): Onda VX747: make backlight setting range from 1->16 instead of 0->15 |
22:28:09 | JdGordon| | yeah, I was hoping it maggically got fixed, but i have the same on my mini2g |
22:28:22 | JdGordon| | when I get motivation again im going to restart that damn patch |
22:28:37 | fml | kugel: what does the parameter hide_bars in do_menu mean? True: Hide if the status bar is displayed, False: do not change anything? |
22:28:39 | * | JdGordon| has a hige todo list for rockbox, and little motivation atm unfortunately |
22:29:05 | kugel | fml: ask JdGordon| :) |
22:30:07 | JdGordon| | yeah, that sounds about right |
22:30:10 | JdGordon| | also the button bar |
22:30:15 | JdGordon| | which is a seperate beast :/ |
22:30:51 | mcuelenaere | hmm does anyone know a way to expand macro's when doing gcc -dM -E <file>? |
22:31:38 | | Quit ender (" Kids. You gotta love them. I adore children. A little salt, a squeeze of lemon--perfect. -- Harry Dresden") |
22:32:18 | fml | But then I don't see why we should apply it. Why should we hide the status bar when the menu is displayed? |
22:32:54 | JdGordon| | because the menu used to draw the statusbar manually inside its viewport |
22:33:00 | JdGordon| | it gets fiddly now... |
22:33:26 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
22:34:45 | fml | bertrik: I'm disappointed by the comment in config-ondavx747.h: MAX is defined as 16 but the value 10 is commented as "full brightness." Is that correct? |
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22:35:24 | fml | mcuelenaere: this was for you, not for bertrik! |
22:36:13 | mcuelenaere | fml: bertrik changed that, I don't know what effect that define has.. |
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22:38:05 | fml | mcuelenaere: I don't know what it all is about, just read the comment and was slightly disappointed :-) |
22:38:46 | mcuelenaere | fml: well I initially used the full brightness for that define, but then bertrik changed it and I assumed he did that with a good reason :) |
22:38:53 | | Quit jfc (Remote closed the connection) |
22:39:32 | foaly | put the output through pastie.org, I guess I give you the page url? http://pastie.org/523425 |
22:40:16 | | Join jfc [0] (n=john@dpc691978010.direcpc.com) |
22:41:16 | * | gevaerts doesn't see what's wrong |
22:41:54 | fml | gevaerts: I thought that "full" and "max" are the same |
22:42:06 | gevaerts | fml: ? |
22:42:27 | foaly | it almost sounds like it wants to compile an image? |
22:43:15 | gevaerts | in a way it does |
22:44:16 | foaly | but why isn't it actually giving an error? |
22:44:26 | gevaerts | foaly: the only thing I see is that you have v=1, not V=1, so we don't get all verbose output |
22:44:53 | foaly | ah oops |
22:45:02 | foaly | should I redo that and paste again? |
22:45:09 | bertrik | fml, we can either change the comment of the value |
22:45:13 | bertrik | *or |
22:45:28 | gevaerts | yes |
22:46:32 | fml | bertrik: if all makes sense then we don't have to change anything. But does it make sense as it stands now? |
22:46:43 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@109.143.66-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
22:47:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
22:47:01 | fml | bertrik: just removing the comment would be fine IMO |
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22:49:15 | | Join Hillshum [0] (i=4ba5ebce@gateway/web/freenode/x-636601184354ed2d) |
22:49:18 | rasher | Bagder: http://pastebin.com/m27d66559 like this? |
22:49:26 | | Part n00b81 ("Leaving") |
22:49:40 | rasher | Bagder: sorry, http://pastebin.com/m73c3adca |
22:49:42 | bertrik | the patch I made was a proof-of-concept that I could not test myself, so it didn't bother to be 100% accurate on the comments |
22:49:58 | bertrik | maybe the default should be max brightness, like it was before |
22:50:04 | Bagder | rasher: yes, looks fine to me! |
22:50:12 | | Quit merbanan ("Leaving") |
22:50:28 | rasher | I guess that means runclient.sh isn't optional anymore |
22:50:35 | Bagder | right |
22:50:54 | Bagder | and thus that script should take the arguments |
22:50:56 | fml | bertrik: or that way. But it's weird as it stands now |
22:50:57 | rasher | It could try to do the move inside perl |
22:51:01 | obo | oh joy - the View seems to have runtime detection during it's lcd_init code for two types of unknown renesas controllers |
22:51:23 | Hillshum | what's the best way to get gcc on osx for rockbox? |
22:51:42 | kugel | bertrik: I think it shouldn't |
22:52:14 | rasher | Bagder: how about adding rename("$perlfile.new", "$perlfile"); That way runclient.sh is only really mandatory on cygwin or other weird archs |
22:52:45 | Bagder | it's still needed as it must restart the perl script after an update |
22:52:47 | fml | Shall I just remove the comment? |
22:52:48 | funman | kugel: do you know why with the fuze, we can skip cards only one by one in solitaire ? |
22:53:15 | rasher | Bagder: but the user could be doing that in other ways |
22:53:21 | bertrik | fml, do you have a vx747? |
22:53:24 | Bagder | true |
22:53:26 | kugel | funman: yea |
22:53:58 | fml | bertrik: no. But IMO either the default value should be changed or the comment removed |
22:54:04 | rasher | Bagder: so this: http://pastebin.com/m3fd97c9 |
22:54:37 | Bagder | yeps |
22:54:44 | bertrik | fml, better discuss it with mcuelenaere then, is this really such a big deal? |
22:54:46 | kugel | funman: http://pastie.org/523454 should be changed to also include the fuze |
22:54:51 | bertrik | I can't be bothered to be honest |
22:54:59 | kugel | but solitaire's way is definitely weird |
22:55:08 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCF757.dip.t-dialin.net) |
22:55:08 | rasher | Completely untested, since I don't have a build server around, but surely there are no bugs! |
22:55:23 | kugel | also, I can't understand why the ipods doesn't use the wheel as the fuze and e200 do |
22:55:56 | fml | bertrik: it's not a big deal at all, just a little bit confusing for someone who reads the code |
22:56:00 | Bagder | running a build server is actually just a matter of running the rbmaster.pl script |
22:56:05 | Bagder | not that you have to |
22:56:16 | | Quit nibbler_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
22:56:23 | rasher | Should I just commit this, or can we do some sort of test? |
22:56:31 | gevaerts | You mean there's *two* scripts for the client and only one for the server? That's not fair! |
22:56:53 | fml | bertrik: like you say in a comment "And now we'll assign 2 to it", but have "x = 5;" as code |
22:56:56 | Bagder | rasher: commit it, and we'll test it later |
22:57:41 | CIA-71 | New commit by rasher (r21495): Make the update feature two-step. Hopefully this should be more likely to succeed. |
22:58:00 | foaly | k http://pastie.org/523458 |
22:58:09 | mcuelenaere | is DEFAULT_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING also the default setting for apps/ or does that have another value? |
22:58:28 | kugel | yes |
22:59:11 | kugel | it's also the intial value of the backlight_brightness variable |
23:00 |
23:00:28 | foaly | formatting probably broke though |
23:01:07 | gevaerts | foaly: what does 'ls -l x16.bmp > /home/bigd/rbtrunk/build/apps/bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.240x74x16.c |
23:01:10 | gevaerts | make: *** [/home/bigd/rbtrunk/build/apps/bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.240x74x16.c] Error 1 |
23:01:13 | gevaerts | oops |
23:01:25 | gevaerts | foaly: what does 'ls -l /home/bigd/rbtrunk/tools/bmp2rb' say? |
23:01:31 | CIA-71 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21496): Onda VX747: fix DEFAULT_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING |
23:02:05 | kugel | mcuelenaere: why did you change that? |
23:02:29 | mcuelenaere | kugel: because 10 is quite dim |
23:02:41 | kugel | imo backlight brightness shouldn't be at maximum by default, I can't tell a target that does it also |
23:03:03 | foaly | -rwxr-xr-x 1 bigd bigd 25213 2009-06-24 07:48 /home/bigd/rbtrunk/tools/bmp2rb |
23:03:11 | | Join n00b81 [0] (n=taylor@unaffiliated/n00b81) |
23:03:27 | kugel | mcuelenaere: I assume that if 10 is too dim already then the log table isn't so good? |
23:04:06 | | Quit petur ("Zzzzz and only half the work done, thanks to linux :(") |
23:04:22 | foaly | is that file perms? |
23:04:31 | gevaerts | yes. They're ok |
23:04:35 | gevaerts | Do you have /home/bigd/rbtrunk/apps/bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.240x74x16.bmp ? |
23:04:42 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@188.16.114.209) |
23:05:21 | mcuelenaere | kugel: no, but I think first-time users would prefer full brightness over 'a more dim one' |
23:06:01 | foaly | yep I do |
23:06:12 | | Join nibbler_ [0] (n=Nibbler@pD9E33477.dip.t-dialin.net) |
23:06:29 | foaly | oh, this could be it |
23:06:37 | foaly | I think root has it or something |
23:06:55 | gevaerts | you checked out as root? |
23:07:17 | rasher | Or you tried to build as root at one point? |
23:07:53 | foaly | yeah, but I also did chmod -R 777 rbtrunk |
23:08:17 | foaly | shouldn't that have made it accessible to anyone? |
23:08:52 | * | Hillshum sees rasher also changed LANG_SELECT_WTH_BUTTON to use select for most targets |
23:09:12 | rasher | Hillshum: did I? Didn't I just talk about it? |
23:09:20 | * | rasher panics |
23:09:29 | gevaerts | foaly: if you have a good connection, maybe it's easier to just do the checkout again. No need to re-run rockboxdev,sh though |
23:09:48 | gevaerts | This time do everything as the same (normal) user though |
23:09:50 | foaly | ah ok. will run as bigd this time heh |
23:11:16 | funman | kugel: perhaps the people who wrote the ipod keymap didn't like to play solitaire this way |
23:12:20 | Hillshum | rasher: I'm pretty sure you did |
23:12:47 | | Quit HellDragon (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
23:12:47 | funman | Hillshum: i'm pretty sure he didn't, check the svn logs ;) |
23:13:22 | rasher | Hillshum: No, just c200 |
23:13:25 | rasher | eh, c200v2 |
23:14:23 | * | Hillshum cant' get the right view online to tell and can't remember for sure what it was to begin with |
23:14:31 | * | Hillshum also has to go |
23:14:32 | CIA-71 | New commit by alle (r21497): Delete the save file immediately after loading it to avoid false tries at the end (part of FS #10138 by Teruaki Kawashima, minor modification by me) |
23:15:58 | funman | kugel: r10984 "solitaire: better layout for ipods, allowing one-handed operation during the game" |
23:17:12 | funman | anyone with an ipod willing to test a solitaire keymap change? |
23:19:20 | CIA-71 | New commit by alle (r21498): Clear the display before showing the splash (part of FS #10138 by Teruaki Kawashima) |
23:19:21 | kugel | funman: well, it didn't remove scrollwheel usage though |
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23:20:01 | funman | kugel: nope, it was added though, perhaps amiconn didn't think of the wheel to change between cards stacks? |
23:20:18 | kugel | perhaps |
23:20:25 | kugel | it makes perfectly sense imo |
23:20:51 | funman | i don't want to make a change to a target i don't own |
23:21:22 | kugel | I asked lamda to test such a patch a while ago, not sure if he actually did |
23:21:30 | funman | if this change is ok we could use #define SOLITAIRE_USE_WHEEL and put 2 additional cases in the button switch (BUTTON_LEFT|REPEAT) |
23:21:35 | | Part n00b81 ("Leaving") |
23:21:53 | fml | I have committed all but one patches from FS #10138. The remaining patch (star_no_statusbar.patch) shouldn't be committed IMO. Could anybody look into it and confirm that? Then I'd close the FS task. |
23:21:55 | kugel | we have HAVE_SCROLLWHEEL for that |
23:22:31 | | Quit Hillshum (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
23:22:47 | | Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") |
23:23:09 | kugel | also, I rather have SOL_LEFT_REPEAT added instead of hacking the return value of button_get |
23:24:28 | funman | and define it to BUTTON_NONE for ondio for example ? (where BUTTON_RIGHT|BUTTON_REPEAT is mapped to something else) |
23:24:53 | kugel | either that, or just don't define |
23:25:06 | kugel | the case can be #ifdef'd |
23:25:10 | | Quit n1s (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
23:27:07 | amiconn | funman: There is a reason why the wheel moves through cards within the stack and not between stacks on the ipod. The ipod has no "natural" up/down buttons, but only left/right buttons. Hencec those need to be used for horizontal movement, hence leaving the wheel for vertical movement |
23:27:19 | amiconn | Also, this matches how lists use the wheel |
23:28:02 | funman | thanks, so kugel i think your solution is good |
23:28:35 | Mikachu | i have a patch for sudoku which makes the direction you move when scrolling dependant on where you initially touched the wheel :) |
23:28:44 | * | amiconn wonders what problem needs a solution in solitaire |
23:29:13 | kugel | amiconn: no natural what? just because of the label? |
23:29:19 | pixelma | Mikachu: isn't there a "switch direction" button in Sudoku now (press select or something)? |
23:29:26 | | Quit nibbler_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
23:29:27 | kugel | you can hardly compare solitaire to lists, really |
23:29:32 | Mikachu | maybe, but the patch is from 2007 or so |
23:29:47 | kugel | should you also use left/right in pf then? |
23:30:19 | * | kugel doesn't agree to that reasoning |
23:30:45 | CIA-71 | New commit by bagder (r21499): Allow a "commander" to connect to the server and instruct it what to do - ... |
23:31:03 | pixelma | well you go through lists vertically and you go through pics on pf horizontally - so I can't follow that reasoning... |
23:31:44 | funman | fuze has play/menu buttons, they are not mapped to up/down in the OF |
23:31:44 | * | rasher doesn't understand this discussion |
23:31:45 | pixelma | as in... I think the way you navigate there is different |
23:31:46 | kugel | hence I'm asking if we shouldn't rather use left and right for PF |
23:31:54 | rasher | Surely a wheel can be seen as both horizontal and vertical motion? |
23:31:58 | | Quit pyro_maniac ("Leaving.") |
23:32:04 | kugel | (ironically that is) |
23:32:14 | amiconn | kugel: Solitaire needs horizonal and vertical movement, like many other places. Also, did you ever try moving down on an ipod with 'Play'? |
23:32:32 | kugel | no, is that a problem? |
23:32:41 | funman | amiconn: horizontal movement is just more used than vertical |
23:32:42 | Mikachu | i had to change the vkeyboard to use menu/play for up/down, it's unusable with the scrolling imo |
23:32:42 | amiconn | The ipod will switch off if you hold too long |
23:32:45 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
23:32:46 | * | Bagder is glad about his new "commander" system to the buildmaster |
23:32:55 | amiconn | funman: So what? |
23:33:00 | Bagder | allows me to connect from remote and start a build |
23:33:02 | Mikachu | amiconn: you don't use the jpeg plugin much? :) |
23:33:14 | funman | i would use the wheel for the most used movements |
23:33:23 | kugel | amiconn: so? that surely is a general problem, not really related to solitaire |
23:33:34 | kugel | funman: exactly |
23:33:41 | amiconn | Mikachu: I do, but I don't use the ipods that much. And I don't like up/down on Menu/Play there either, just that there is no better way when you also need zoom |
23:33:49 | amiconn | Solitaire needs no zoom though |
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23:33:59 | Mikachu | amiconn: what i mean is you have the shutdown problem in the jpeg plugin |
23:34:11 | amiconn | I know... |
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23:34:21 | amiconn | funman: I wouldn't |
23:34:23 | Mikachu | (but i changed that to select+play) :) |
23:34:37 | funman | amiconn: isn't it easier to use the wheel ? |
23:34:42 | amiconn | no |
23:35:06 | kugel | why? |
23:35:07 | funman | is the ipod wheel different from sansa e200 ? |
23:35:14 | | Quit Zarggg (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
23:35:20 | pixelma | sure - it's a touch wheel |
23:35:53 | amiconn | The wheel is crap for precise control. You can move fast - but nothing more |
23:35:53 | | Quit Zarggg_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
23:36:09 | funman | that's what i thought : does it make navigation much different from the e200? because i find it much more easy to use than buttons in that case |
23:36:32 | | Join kugel__ [0] (i=kugel@e178105252.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
23:36:38 | funman | amiconn: you can always go back.. and that is faster anyway than using buttons |
23:36:38 | | Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.) |
23:36:46 | | Nick kugel__ is now known as kugel (i=kugel@e178105252.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
23:37:00 | | Quit _lifeless (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
23:37:03 | amiconn | For at least up to 5 steps, I'm certaily faster using buttons |
23:37:28 | | Quit Rob2222 () |
23:37:36 | kugel | amiconn: so it's boils down to your personal opinion about the scrollwheel? |
23:37:59 | * | Mikachu gets crazy thoughts about the sensitivity of the scrollwheel being set dynamically by where you make initial contact |
23:38:15 | amiconn | With buttons, I just press e.g. 4 times if I want to take 4 steps. With the wheel, I touch, move, notice that I moved to far, have to stop a bit, look how much too far it went, move back etc |
23:38:34 | notlistening | the e200 and speech is a bit of a pain but you ahve to be light with it |
23:38:42 | amiconn | It is not an opinion, it is an experience |
23:39:07 | pixelma | also, at least on the e200 the buttons are seperated from the wheel unlike on the Ipod |
23:39:36 | * | kugel thinks that the wheel should be used for the most common movements, consitently |
23:39:43 | rasher | Bagder: cure for hung builds? |
23:39:55 | funman | pixelma: not on the fuze though |
23:40:09 | * | Mikachu got a sim build |
23:40:19 | Mikachu | is "gigabeats" a sim or some model is "S"? |
23:40:29 | Bagder | rasher: nah, I hope to use it to trigger builds, manually and automated |
23:40:43 | Bagder | even from remote I mean |
23:40:45 | amiconn | kugel: The wheel should be used consistently wrt directions. On the ipod it means to use it for vertical movements, unless zooming is also needed |
23:40:53 | Bagder | Mikachu: a model |
23:40:57 | kugel | amiconn: aren't you actually usually doing less steps for going through 1 stack? |
23:41:09 | notlistening | would you not have a scroll wheel if given a choice and what else would yoy use? |
23:41:25 | kugel | amiconn: so left/right for pf too, yes? |
23:41:29 | amiconn | Plain, simple buttons, in a directional cross |
23:41:42 | pixelma | funman: I know, but it still is a bit different I guess if the wheel movement is also mechanical |
23:41:43 | amiconn | kugel: ? |
23:42:03 | kugel | what are you refering to? |
23:42:10 | rasher | amiconn: Why should it? If there's only one direction available.. |
23:42:18 | amiconn | [23:41:25] <kugel> amiconn: so left/right for pf too, yes? <== /me doesn't understand |
23:42:23 | notlistening | i had a scroll wheel on the side of a device with push and pull and click in movements that worked like a crea for doing everything |
23:42:35 | kugel | you don't scroll vertically there in the album viewe |
23:42:35 | Mikachu | like a what? |
23:42:51 | amiconn | notlistening: Actually several targets have those, and I prefer those targets for several reasons, one of which is the button layout |
23:42:55 | kugel | you just said the wheel should only be used for vertical scrolling and zooming |
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23:43:28 | | Join ladanz [0] (n=ladanz@Qfc4f.q.pppool.de) |
23:43:42 | * | kugel doesn't see the relation between scrollwheel and vertical scrolling |
23:43:55 | ladanz | hi there; just updated to version 3.3; where is the sleep timer??? |
23:43:59 | amiconn | As there is no vertical movement in pf, the wheel can be used for horizontal movement. I would map the Left/Right buttons in addition to that though (dunno whether it is already the case) |
23:44:27 | amiconn | kugel: There is no relation in general, but there is on the ipod when you need both directions |
23:44:32 | rasher | amiconn: I think kugel assumed you meant the wheel should never be used for horizontal movement |
23:44:41 | rasher | As did I, for a moment |
23:45:07 | gevaerts | ladanz: which target? |
23:45:13 | kugel | amiconn: and why vertical for that case? |
23:45:25 | * | amiconn doesn't want to repeat himself |
23:45:37 | ladanz | sansa e260; when u mean that gevaerts |
23:45:38 | kugel | I still don't see a relation, not even for cases where both directions are needed |
23:45:56 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@adsl-99-182-52-92.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) |
23:46:16 | amiconn | 23:27 ... |
23:46:20 | CIA-71 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21500): Lua: expose BUTTON_* defines |
23:46:22 | gevaerts | ladanz: the manual says it's in System -> Time and Date |
23:46:40 | rasher | kugel: Makes sense to me. When both directions are available, you can pick either "wheel = horizontal" or "wheel = vertical". One is easier to operate than the other, so you *always* make it do that. |
23:47:21 | kugel | one is easier to operate? |
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23:47:34 | ladanz | yes it is ^^; thanks alot gevaerts ! next time i will look up the manual myself :-D |
23:47:47 | rasher | kugel: According to amiconn, it is easier to use the buttons for left+right, rather than up+down. |
23:47:52 | Mikachu | when you need two directions, i think using the wheel for one of them is _really_ annoying and hard to use |
23:48:06 | rasher | Mikachu: I tend to agree |
23:48:07 | Llorean | Mikachu: Depends on whether you "need" two directions or not |
23:48:13 | Llorean | For example, the Jewels grid seems to be 2D |
23:48:13 | ladanz | but it seems to me, that this is an unusal spot; because i set it every time.... |
23:48:15 | Mikachu | like in the keyboard entry |
23:48:21 | Llorean | But scrolling 1D with the wheel can be just as effective |
23:48:30 | Mikachu | sokoban does it right :) |
23:48:45 | Llorean | As long as "leave the right edge" means "enter on the left edge, one line lower" it can be a nice way to navigate a grid |
23:49:01 | kugel | Mikachu: that's also true for many places. not solitaire though imo |
23:49:09 | gevaerts | ladanz: it's been debated... If it's something you set while using the player normally, does it belong in settings? |
23:49:26 | Mikachu | kugel: solitaire is more an array of arrays rather than a matrix :) so i think it is alright there |
23:49:33 | amiconn | rasher: It is more precise, not necessarily always easier. But it is also more logical |
23:50:09 | * | Llorean would prefer in all 2D situations to have button-based controls at least as an option |
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23:51:13 | kugel | configurable buttons? |
23:51:27 | rasher | Just that both works, I guess |
23:51:34 | gevaerts | kugel: living dangerously? ;) |
23:51:51 | | Quit PaulJam__ (Nick collision from services.) |
23:51:53 | kugel | gevaerts: No, I was wondering of Llorean meant that |
23:51:57 | | Join PaulJam_ [0] (i=Paule@vpn-3024.gwdg.de) |
23:52:01 | rasher | It gets a bit tricky in the vkeyboard since play accepts, currently |
23:52:14 | rasher | The vkeyboard is horrible to use on e200 |
23:52:19 | kugel | yea |
23:52:33 | Llorean | kugel: No, not configurable buttons. :-P |
23:52:51 | Llorean | The vkeyboard ranges from "mildly annoying" to "horrible" on basically every target I've used it on. |
23:52:54 | Mikachu | i did this for vkeyboard (bottom hunk) http://comm.it.cx/?p=rockbox-svn.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ed41f1660a |
23:53:00 | Llorean | There's no way to make it intuitive. You either *have* to read the manual, or do some guessing. |
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23:53:09 | kugel | I was having a patch making it a bit better, up/down/left/right choosing characters, long select for accapting, scrollwheel for moving the cursor in the line |
23:53:10 | Mikachu | but i guess you want to avoid "combos" |
23:53:27 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC") |
23:53:34 | pixelma | kugel: in solitaire the long play is a problem though as someone who wants to go through the cards vertically might also want to hold the button to go down repeatedly.. |
23:53:45 | * | foaly cheers! |
23:53:45 | rasher | kugel: long select for accepting seems a bit dangerous |
23:53:57 | foaly | it works! |
23:53:58 | Llorean | The main problem with vkeyboard that I have is, without manual, you have to guess what will be "accept" and "cancel" |
23:54:11 | kugel | I used it in my custom build days, I was very happy with it |
23:54:17 | Mikachu | usually menu+select is cancel on ipods |
23:54:18 | | Join fml [0] (n=4fd3ca47@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-261637d965b79008) |
23:54:22 | Bagder | hah, in the end I got 68 builds back ;-O |
23:54:32 | GodEater | not bad out of 22 :D |
23:54:40 | Bagder | out of 59 actually |
23:54:43 | Bagder | 9 bonus |
23:54:49 | GodEater | woohoo |
23:54:50 | Mikachu | how many from me? :) |
23:55:05 | ladanz | gevaerts, is there a way to write it down in some config; so it's enabled when starting? |
23:55:14 | GodEater | Bagder: so that happens if two clients finish the same build at once ? |
23:55:21 | rasher | Bagder: Tried to kill a build while it was already uploading? |
23:55:27 | | Quit barrywardell () |
23:55:30 | gevaerts | ladanz: I don't know, sorry. I've never used that feature |
23:55:32 | Bagder | rasher: that's a good theory, yes |
23:55:48 | rasher | Bagder: Maybe a "CANIUPLOAD?" "NOALREADYGETTINGTHAT!" |
23:56:13 | Bagder | no, we need to allow parallel uploads |
23:56:13 | gevaerts | rasher: no. What if this upload is real slow? |
23:56:35 | rasher | Good point |
23:56:37 | Bagder | the server gets told once the zip+log is done uploading, not before |
23:56:38 | amiconn | Llorean: Imo accept should somehow relate to the standard select, and cancel to the standard cancel |
23:56:41 | rasher | And it's not going to be a problem anyway |
23:56:43 | ladanz | gevaerts, alright; thanks anyways. bye :-) |
23:56:47 | | Quit ladanz ("Leaving") |
23:56:49 | rasher | Since it'll start building regardless |
23:56:50 | rasher | Ignore me |
23:57:10 | | Quit fml (Client Quit) |
23:57:14 | Llorean | amiconn: That would help, yes. |
23:57:26 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@79.97.85.223) |
23:57:56 | rasher | How about an OK "key"? |
23:58:01 | rasher | In the keyboard, that is |
23:58:07 | Llorean | Really, *most* of vkeyboard could be standardized to 6 buttons (up, down, left, right, select, cancel) with long-select being "accept" and long-cancel being "cancel", short cancel being "backspace" |
23:58:14 | Llorean | But that doesn't give you pageflipping or anything, just very basics. |
23:58:23 | * | GodEater proposes all commands used by the build server are done in LOLSpeak |
23:58:29 | GodEater | ICANHAZBUILD? |
23:58:32 | * | Mikachu vetoes |
23:58:41 | * | rasher double vetoes |
23:58:53 | * | scorche|sh vetoes the veto |