| 00:01:01 | * | gevaerts thinks that the build page looks weird |
| 00:02:58 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
| 00:02:59 | cg_ | hmm, seems to be now building two targets at once? |
| 00:03:23 | gevaerts | that too |
| 00:04:45 | Zagor | gevaerts: yeah I tried some "hot updating" but that didn't work too well yet |
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| 00:07:27 | gevaerts | Zagor: I'd really like a -uploadspeed parameter to help my poor adsl line survive a bit better (or maybe -curlopts?) |
| 00:08:00 | * | gevaerts decides to see if he can manage that |
| 00:08:01 | Unhelpful | amiconn: double-checked. the -meabi=4 flag alone does not break vorbis, only removing -mlong-calls also so that stubs will be generated causes breakage. this feature might need to wait for a newer binutils |
| 00:08:20 | Zagor | gevaerts: yeah I was just thinking about ways to deal with that |
| 00:09:16 | gevaerts | Zagor: I'd just use .curlrc, but I don't want to limit my download speed, and someone forgot to make the rate limiting in curl direction specific |
| 00:10:21 | gevaerts | maybe use a curlrc file in the checkout if it's there? |
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| 00:10:37 | amiconn | Unhelpful: I can only think of two possible causes, either a binutils bug or a hidden bug in our vorbis decoder |
| 00:11:09 | kugel | gevaerts: I think Bagder accepts bug reports |
| 00:11:50 | gevaerts | kugel: I think he prefers patches, but I don't feel like working on that right now :) |
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| 00:23:45 | scorche|sh | linuxstb: i have the intention, yes...but have no clue when i will ever have the time to work on it... |
| 00:24:44 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Did you check whether the resulting call paths change? |
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| 00:45:28 | * | funman just sent an email to an atmel contact who might have informations on which SD controller is used in the Fuzev2 and Clipv2 |
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| 00:59:06 | kugel | gevaerts: see what I mean :D |
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| 02:16:48 | funman | we might have to check the SD status register sent by cmd13 |
| 02:16:50 | Unhelpful | amiconn: what exactly should i be checking? the basic process here is for gcc to always emit bl <symbol> for calls, which is what it does without -mlong-calls, anyway. the assmebler then labels the callsites as R_ARM_CALL relocations, and then the linker either copies in the correct offset if they're in-range, or generates a stub to use as the bl target, the stub being __[label]_veneer: ldr pc, [pc, #-4] ; .word <address> |
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| 02:21:17 | Unhelpful | the #-4 seems a little weird to me, as the address is stored after the ldr... |
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| 02:22:07 | funman | Unhelpful: pc points 8 bytes after the current instruction when read (4 bytes in thumb, so always the size of 2 instructions) |
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| 02:23:54 | funman | my attempts to use cmd55 (app cmd) after card init fails with CMD TIMEOUT ... |
| 02:24:21 | Unhelpful | ah, so #0 would be the place after the address, and -4 is the address, and that's entirely right. :) |
| 02:24:34 | funman | ^^ |
| 02:25:30 | Unhelpful | so, what i should be looking for is 1) any code aside from the call instructions themselves that differs 2) any calls to the wrong veneer function 3) any veneer that do not point where they claim to ? |
| 02:26:52 | Unhelpful | i have difficulty imagining how any of those things would happen... especially how #2 and #3 would produce the result i see (vorbis files skip on attempting playback without error report) |
| 02:35:08 | amiconn | If a codec skips a file, it is due to an error. That error might or might not be displayed |
| 02:35:37 | amiconn | Did you replace both core and codecs in your test, or did you mix them? |
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| 02:42:47 | amiconn | Hmm, vorbis is the only codec using setjmp... |
| 02:43:16 | Unhelpful | replaced both. since calls between the two are always via pointers, i *could* mix them... it might make it clear whether it's a core or a codec issue. |
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| 02:51:46 | amiconn | You can only mix them if you're not using different abis |
| 02:53:19 | Unhelpful | amiconn: i'm not - i've built both with stock gcc except for the spec change to pass the -meabi=4 assembler option, but one of them is built with -mlong-calls, the other is not |
| 02:53:48 | Unhelpful | would being called via a veneer perhaps mess up setjmp or longjmp? |
| 02:53:55 | * | amiconn wonders how a real eabi build performs in this case |
| 02:55:07 | Unhelpful | that's a few days ago for me, but i believe what happened was that vorbis stalled at the start of the file, and that after stopping playback other things went wrong (that had worked before attempting playback) |
| 02:55:30 | Unhelpful | there are no stubs for setjmp or longjmp... |
| 02:55:58 | Unhelpful | nm on the .elf, since it's been through linking, tells you exactly which functions have stubs :) |
| 02:55:59 | amiconn | I suspected setjmp for a while, but the generated asm is okay, and being called via a veneer shouldn't matter as that doesn't touch lr |
| 02:57:34 | Unhelpful | precisely... the veneer doesn't do anything but load the new address into pc |
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| 02:59:55 | Unhelpful | there are only four stubs, i could either 1) go around enabling or adding debug logfs or 2) try marking individual stubbed functions as long-call to see if that fixes it |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:03 | amiconn | Yeah, but if you drop -mlong-calls, the rest of the code changes. All long calls are turned into 'bl' |
| 03:00:28 | amiconn | This may in turn change regiser allocation |
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| 03:01:05 | Unhelpful | it may, because with interworking it needs to load the target address into some other register first, doesn't it? |
| 03:01:05 | * | amiconn wonders whether there are asm blocks involved - another "popular" method for producing hard-to-find bugs |
| 03:01:41 | amiconn | Asm blocks with incorrect clobber lists or similar |
| 03:02:35 | Unhelpful | amiconn: and perhaps a missed clobber is harmless in one case due to different register allocation? |
| 03:02:48 | amiconn | yes |
| 03:03:26 | * | amiconn alraedy had to deal with such asm blocks |
| 03:03:41 | Unhelpful | an asm function that fails to save a clobbered register may have a similar effect, right? |
| 03:03:45 | amiconn | This kind of bug also tends to show up when switching to a newer gcc |
| 03:06:34 | Unhelpful | if the clobbered register is some calculated flag, or an test value for a loop condition, or such, that would also explain the behavior i'm seeing... |
| 03:07:48 | Unhelpful | whereas the idea of it having to do with the relocation itself would make it terribly hard to believe it would do anything but crash |
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| 03:22:05 | Unhelpful | add doesn't need a "cc" clobber, right? only adc would? |
| 03:25:42 | Unhelpful | CLIP_TO_15 could be optimized on armv6 with ssat, i believe... |
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| 03:27:06 | saratoga | Unhelpful: have you tested vorbis with ASM disabled? |
| 03:27:16 | saratoga | should give you a pretty big clue if its the problem or not |
| 03:28:07 | Unhelpful | it looks pretty easy to do, at least ;) |
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| 03:30:34 | Unhelpful | saratoga: it looked to me as if using 16-bit constants in mdct might possibly be helpful... especially if the large const array in the main loop is packed as well. it basically cuts loads of constants in half if they're packed two to a register. |
| 03:30:56 | saratoga | Unhelpful: i think thats worth trying |
| 03:31:09 | saratoga | for reference, cook uses the same imdct entirely in 16 bit precision with good results |
| 03:31:24 | saratoga | and I think theres an 8 bit version of it floating around thats supposed to be listenable |
| 03:32:28 | Unhelpful | the gains from the other things i mentioned amounted to about 2% |
| 03:32:32 | saratoga | though i'm curious if this would apply to ARM4 or just the ones with 16 bit multiply? |
| 03:32:52 | saratoga | i saw that, though I didn't see a commit for mp3? |
| 03:33:31 | Unhelpful | i didn't look at the mp3's mdct... for all i know it has both optimizations already :) |
| 03:33:41 | saratoga | oh I thought you mentioned MP3 before |
| 03:33:50 | Unhelpful | and no, it would not apply for arm4, so only some unsupported targets that are arm5e and arm6 |
| 03:34:02 | Unhelpful | i tested mp3. i stopped when you said it had its own mdct |
| 03:34:07 | saratoga | ah ok |
| 03:34:47 | saratoga | i bet simply rearranging ops in the mp3 filterbank and imdct would improve performance on later arm targets, it was written targeting ARMv4 (and for the ifp port IIRC) |
| 03:35:07 | saratoga | and arm7tdmi has fewer restrictions due to pipelining |
| 03:36:09 | Unhelpful | you *can* load values stored as halfwords together with arm4, but you'll need 3 ops of fixup to use those constants if they're to be multiplied... an asr #16 will get you the top value, and an lsl #16 ; asr #16 will get you the bottom one |
| 03:36:53 | saratoga | yeah i remember looking into doing that and deciding it wasn't worth it |
| 03:36:55 | Unhelpful | if you're going to be *adding* the values, and the other side of the add need not be rotated, you may need only one fixup op, in which case it's more likely to pay off to save the load |
| 03:38:04 | Unhelpful | the lack of input shifts or immediates for the multiply and parallel-math ops really stings sometimes ;/ |
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| 03:48:07 | Unhelpful | disabling arm assembly in libvorbis = playback proceeds :) |
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| 04:03:05 | wannaplaylist | I have a question for anyone about the 'on the go playlist creation'. I have never heard of rockbox til now so feel free to assume that i know precisely jack about it. I want to get an mp3 player that is cheaper and less 'locked in' i guess, than the ipod. Lots of them seem to not allow customized playlists though. Is the on the go feature in rockbox something that will allow me to make a folder of son |
| 04:04:02 | scorche|sh | well, 'the ipod' is just a device..it is the firmware that makes it 'locked in'... |
| 04:04:14 | scorche|sh | also, your message got cut off at allow me to make a folder of son |
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| 04:04:49 | wannaplaylist | and is rockbox like firmware that you install on an mp3 player?... ok let me post the rest... |
| 04:05:01 | wannaplaylist | "Is the on the go feature in rockbox something that will allow me to make a folder of songs and put them on a device as a playlist? Thanks for any info." |
| 04:05:32 | scorche|sh | and yes...rockbox is a replacement firmware as it says on the front page... |
| 04:06:43 | wannaplaylist | ok here is when the techidiot comes out... i really hesitate to alter the firmware on my ipod bc i don't want it be irreversible. just letting itunes update the ipod firmware killed all of my music once today... |
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| 04:08:38 | wannaplaylist | but i want a second mp3 player anyway and might get a sandisk type. |
| 04:08:39 | scorche|sh | it is extremely low risk to install and can easily be reversed....that said, some parts of rockbox can be a bit complex, so might a recommend a read through the manual to get yourself aquainted with how things work/what you should expect? |
| 04:08:41 | wannaplaylist | does that on the go playlist that rockbox enables mean that i can drag and drop 1 or more folders to a device and have it keep that folder intact as a playlist? |
| 04:09:27 | scorche|sh | it means that you can load whatever music you want and while out and about add/move/delete whatever folders or files you wish from a playlist |
| 04:10:29 | wannaplaylist | oh, i didnt know it was reversible... so you can have multiple customized playlists? thanks for your help. once i get a new player i will read the manual before i install stuff since i'm not familiar with it. |
| 04:12:03 | scorche|sh | you can do whatever you want with a playlist...i usually dont use pre-created playlists though and just make one of what i want to hear at any one time...the manual will probably give you a better image of how these things work though... |
| 04:13:34 | wannaplaylist | ok. it sounds like the feature is what i was looking for at least. i didn't see any point in having 4G of music if i couldn't organize it into lists that i wanted... it seems most force you to use playlists they make that are an artist/album/genre, etc. |
| 04:13:45 | wannaplaylist | thanks for the response |
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| 04:30:50 | GreatBeaver | do people defrag their mp3 players? and what program? |
| 04:31:11 | scorche|sh | that doesnt really have anything to do with rockbox.. |
| 04:32:05 | GreatBeaver | can rockbox have a built-in defrag? |
| 04:32:35 | scorche|sh | it would be silly to have one in rockbox...your computer can do a much better job of it |
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| 05:04:07 | Unhelpful | hah... replacing *either* of vect_mult_bw or vect_mult_fw with the C implementation gets things back to working |
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| 05:06:52 | derekja | how do you make rockbox ignore the "the" in front of a band namd |
| 05:07:24 | derekja | also, it keeps crashing on my ipod video |
| 05:10:20 | Unhelpful | i believe the C and asm versions could both be made slightly more efficient by passing the end address rather than the count... especially seeing as the caller *has* the end address and *calculates* the count for the call |
| 05:12:52 | JdGordon | derekja: you dont.. and thats not really an argument which anyone can be bothered having... |
| 05:13:14 | JdGordon | there is a correct way to do it... using the sort tag, noone has done it in a way we want it, so its not being done yet |
| 05:16:00 | derekja | JdGordon: and idea why it keeps crashing on my ipod video? |
| 05:16:06 | derekja | *any |
| 05:16:20 | JdGordon | it being what? |
| 05:16:38 | derekja | rockbox |
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| 06:00 |
| 06:01:20 | JdGordon | are image co-ordinates viewport relative? or screen relative? |
| 06:02:00 | Unhelpful | JdGordon: isn't pretty much *everything* in core screen-relative? |
| 06:02:06 | Unhelpful | erm, VP-relative? |
| 06:03:01 | JdGordon | hmm... customwps says it is... |
| 06:03:10 | * | JdGordon doesnt wan to do math |
| 06:09:52 | JdGordon | anyone know the volume keys in the clip sim? |
| 06:20:20 | CIA-69 | New commit by jdgordon (r21877): display the volume as a number when its changing in the cabbie theme on the clip |
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| 06:33:44 | * | Llorean wonders why he only updated one WPS |
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| 07:31:18 | pixelma | JdGordon: will you update the other WPSs too? (I agree with Llorean and think the default WPS should be as similar as possible across targets and since all bitmap ones show a volume icon...) |
| 07:32:33 | pixelma | generally I like the info there though and even thought about changing them myself but there are version that don't use viewports at all so that means more work.... |
| 07:34:52 | Llorean | I can understand some making it unique per target to fit the hardware, but things like this where there's no reason it shouldn't be the same, it should really be done for all or none. |
| 07:36:57 | pixelma | yes, that's what I meant to with "as similar"... on that note, I'm reminded that I wanted to make a suggestion for the c200 using a 10-pixel high font to get one more line in the WPS to use for the playback times info (and generally better fit) |
| 07:37:58 | pixelma | they used the Sazanami-Mincho-Regular fonts and that one exists as 10 too (but of course is a bit smaller) |
| 07:38:49 | pixelma | emm... the 11-Sazanami for the c200 currently |
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| 10:37:19 | FlynDice | funman: (for the logs) RE: SD card speeds P.6 sd spec 3.4 SpeedClass, RE : 12.5/25 MB/sec __interface__ speed p.39 sd spec 4.3.11 High-Speed Mode |
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| 10:41:39 | Jaykay | i suggest closing of FS #5886, FS #6212, and FS #8895 with the reason "out of date", because FS #9873 is going to be committed |
| 10:41:54 | Jaykay | they are all about adding some functionality to the rec button |
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| 11:21:38 | gevaerts | Jaykay: how about waiting until it's actually committed? |
| 11:22:11 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Btw, if loading 16 bit values together allows you to use ldmia, it pays off to do so on arm7 even if you have to do some unstuffing. The libdemac filters used to do that before I switched them to using 32 bit ints on armv4. |
| 11:22:29 | Jaykay | gevaerts: they are out of date anyway because theres a newer patch with the same functionality |
| 11:23:02 | gevaerts | Jaykay: a patch isn't better just because it's newer |
| 11:23:09 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Oh, and in my experience stating "cc" as clobbered is unnecessary. It won't hurt though |
| 11:25:27 | Jaykay | gevaerts: then its better because it supports all targets :) |
| 11:27:44 | gevaerts | Jaykay: even that is not good enough. If all else is equal, sure, but is it? |
| 11:31:56 | Jaykay | gevaerts: i don't know, i don't know enough about the code. then i'll wait until FS# 9873 is committed :) |
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| 11:47:39 | Unhelpful | amiconn: well, these two asm functions list everything they clobber properly, and they're only called in one place, and looking at the asm there i don't see anything suspicious - but replacing either one of them with the C version from misc.h stops vorbis from failing again... perhaps it's something that happens somewhere else because of a difference in size, as that function has no long calls in it, anyway... |
| 11:49:02 | Unhelpful | and i was looking at the bits in libtremor... i'm quite sure the multiply and vector functions don't do anything too silly, although the multilpy ones are not needed as it's quite easy to get gcc to generate the same asm with very readable C math |
| 11:52:00 | Unhelpful | vect_mult_fw might go a bit faster with all four smull in front and then the shifts, but i don't see how it can be trashing any registers without gcc knowing |
| 11:53:37 | Unhelpful | i believe the pattern used is especially poor on the newer arms... i'm pretty sure the arm1136 manual states that a shifted input register must be ready a cycle early |
| 11:56:38 | * | amiconn wonders what the XPROD32 macro in asm_arm.h is actually doing |
| 11:57:20 | amiconn | It calculates 'l', but doesn't return that as the result of the block... |
| 11:58:50 | * | amiconn also wonders why that file seems to be duplicated |
| 11:59:17 | amiconn | It's in codecs/lib/ as well as in codecs/libtremor/ |
| 12:00 |
| 12:09:30 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Hmm, if you're mixing arm asm and C there, the result will be incorrent. See the comments regarding delayed shifts |
| 12:09:38 | amiconn | *incorrect |
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| 12:14:10 | Unhelpful | amiconn: i noticed that... however, if *either* of those is swapped out for the C version, it stops skipping vorbis tracks. perhaps the problem has something to do with where in memory some other value is being stored, because if the problem were one of these functions, it would matter which one i replace... and if it were both, i would *have* to replace both. |
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| 12:21:51 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Btw, if you're looking for possible optimisations - asm_arm.h has several functions which could be sped up a lot using 'clz' on armv5 and above |
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| 12:23:04 | Unhelpful | the arm asm division should be using clz as well... and i should really get around to writing that specialized shifted-output divide for pictureflow |
| 12:24:37 | amiconn | Which division are you talking about? |
| 12:25:07 | amiconn | Gcc uses 'clz' in its division routine on armv5 and above. |
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| 12:31:46 | Unhelpful | we'd talked about this before, but basically fdiv calculates (num << 10) / den by first using clz to see how far it can safely shift the numerator, and shifting the denominator right if needed, and then doing the division. |
| 12:33:37 | Unhelpful | since arm doesn't have a divider, and we have to loop, this could be handled more efficiently, i think, by producing shifted output in the division routine directly. essentially, shift the bit-to-set value left by 10, and do a normal division, with up to 10 extra iterations to fill in the fractional bits |
| 12:34:55 | * | amiconn was talking about libtremor and hence didn't expect Unhelpful suddenly jumping to pf optimisations |
| 12:35:31 | * | Unhelpful has a long to-do list :) |
| 12:37:04 | Unhelpful | i'd *really* like to know what's breaking libtremor, though... i think the asm blocks in question may be a red herring |
| 12:38:16 | amiconn | Since it doesn't crash, it should be possible to log the error. Adding log statements may change behaviour if it's really an alignment problem |
| 12:38:52 | amiconn | Did you try if it also breaks if you do an ordinary short-call build (i.e. not using iram at all - probably slow as hell)? |
| 12:41:50 | Unhelpful | no, i didn't... i think a good way to prove an alignment bug might be to just check the sizes for the two versions of that function and add a pad |
| 12:43:53 | Unhelpful | if i can "fix" the problem in short-call-with-stubs by changing code that shouldn't break or fix anything, i should be able to change the behavior just by adding a pad to whichever version of the function is smaller, if the size is causing the problem. |
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| 12:52:45 | amiconn | That almost sounds like an off-by-one access somewhere |
| 12:53:09 | amiconn | Changing the code size will shift variables in memory |
| 12:53:25 | amiconn | Are you testing on a PP target? |
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| 12:59:17 | Unhelpful | e200 |
| 12:59:43 | Unhelpful | the asm versions both unroll the loop by four... they're actually *larger* |
| 13:00 |
| 13:02:39 | amiconn | Hmm, the vorbis codec doesn't seem to use dualcore. Otherwise wrong cache line alignment would have been a potential cause |
| 13:05:59 | Unhelpful | from other channel: "successs". if i swap in the C versions for the asm ones, vorbis no longer fails tracks (although the output is wrong because of the delayed shift). if i just add a global asm with ".size 20" (20 being the difference in size of the two objects), it's broken again. |
| 13:09:44 | amiconn | Hmm, so we do have an alignment issue in the vorbis codec... |
| 13:10:07 | * | amiconn once tracked down such a beast by bisecting |
| 13:11:21 | amiconn | First, put the filler at the very beginning and find out which sizes make the code break and which don't. Then, bisect the filler position |
| 13:14:29 | amiconn | This is how I found that PP5002 doesn't like its sleep instruction at certain addresses |
| 13:15:39 | Unhelpful | ick. i'll take a shot at it tonight... i need to be getting to bed now. i guess i could start by moving the filler around to see which function doesn't want to be offset? |
| 13:16:38 | amiconn | I'd first check whether it's code or data |
| 13:19:28 | Zagor | FYI: We plan to disable the old build system tonight |
| 13:22:45 | gevaerts | Nice :) |
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| 13:48:23 | bagderoid | zagor maybe se should announce the build switch on the dev list |
| 13:48:48 | Zagor | bagderoid: yup, I'll do that. |
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| 13:50:13 | funman | FlynDice: i tried reading the status register with acmd13, but i got a data timeout when trying to read the register with DMA |
| 13:50:23 | funman | both on internal storage and µSD |
| 13:51:10 | bagderoid | we should also make sure the instructions are accurate. |
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| 14:04:43 | soap | can a wiki admin explain the last two diffs here? |
| 14:04:44 | soap | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/rdiff/Main/WpsIaudioX5Graveyard?type=history |
| 14:05:56 | soap | is that just a file being attached, then a second version of said file being attached under the same name? |
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| 14:13:08 | Zagor | soap: good question :) |
| 14:13:49 | soap | And, since the new theme site is long up and running - can we lock the Graveyard pages from upload? Perhaps plan a migration path once-and-for-all from the wiki theme pages to the web theme site? |
| 14:14:42 | Zagor | that would be nice |
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| 14:40:10 | muesli | hi guys |
| 14:40:58 | muesli | hi guys |
| 14:41:26 | muesli | gfd |
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| 14:42:04 | muesli | test |
| 14:43:00 | funman | muesli: hi |
| 14:43:02 | muesli | mmh..i have no rights to speak?? |
| 14:44:20 | Torne | no, the channel is just not very busy right now |
| 14:44:30 | Torne | and people are probably waiting to see if you actually have a question :) |
| 14:44:41 | muesli | ah, here we are... |
| 14:44:46 | muesli | g'day mates |
| 14:44:54 | linuxstb | muesli: You can always log at the logs - http://www.rockbox.org/irc/ |
| 14:44:58 | muesli | we |
| 14:45:31 | muesli | ah ok..im using the web interface. takes some moments until my message shows up ;-) |
| 14:45:31 | funman | Torne: can you give me again the list of maintainers for linux arm machines? |
| 14:45:40 | Torne | hm? |
| 14:45:54 | Torne | russel king is the main linux-arm guy |
| 14:45:58 | Torne | that's about all the list there is :) |
| 14:46:33 | Jaykay | are there any differences between the manual for recorderv2 and fmrecorder? |
| 14:46:33 | funman | I remember you gave me a list of maintainers for specific machines (listed in arch/arm/tools/mach-types) |
| 14:47:21 | muesli | anyway... referring to http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=22225.msg153300#msg153300 |
| 14:47:34 | muesli | question 3: whats the usb diskmode? |
| 14:47:51 | Torne | funman: oh, the machine type registry is on the linux-arm site |
| 14:48:01 | Torne | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/ |
| 14:48:05 | Torne | there's no guarantee it's up to date |
| 14:48:12 | Torne | it's mostly "the person who asked for that machine type to be added" |
| 14:48:24 | Torne | rather than any guarantee that that person still cares about that port |
| 14:48:40 | funman | thanks, i'll bookmark it anyway |
| 14:48:49 | mt | linuxstb: AAC extradata in rm seems to always be 3 bytes. (first 2 are 2h and 12h for the stereo samples I have, I'm guessing the first one could be channel config ?). Still can't figure what the other two are for, assuming I got the first one right ! |
| 14:48:52 | funman | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/list.php?id=2096 for AS353X machine |
| 14:49:47 | linuxstb | mt: Have you looked at the existing aac codec? How big is the extradata there? |
| 14:50:30 | funman | since extradata is used by the decoder i would expect it is the same ? |
| 14:50:43 | linuxstb | funman: Yes, that's what I'm asking... |
| 14:50:49 | linuxstb | You never know though. |
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| 14:51:07 | muesli_ | ok...new try |
| 14:52:06 | muesli_ | anyway... referring to http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=22225.msg153300#msg153300 |
| 14:52:07 | muesli_ | <muesli> question 3: whats the usb diskmode? |
| 14:52:07 | muesli_ | sorry 4 flooding the channel with my doublepost |
| 14:52:11 | | Quit muesli ("CGI:IRC") |
| 14:52:24 | linuxstb | muesli_: Then why ask again? |
| 14:52:54 | muesli_ | i changed to mirc since the webinterface couldnt be used for a proper conversation |
| 14:53:56 | mt | linuxstb: (Just making sure) In apps/codecs/libm4a/m4a.h, is "codecdata" equivalent to what we referr to as codec_extradata ? |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:01:42 | Jaykay | second try: are there any differences between the manual for recorderv2 and fmrecorder? |
| 15:02:13 | amiconn | No, as these devices are technically identical |
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| 15:02:30 | amiconn | (except the v2 *may* have the radio, while the fmr *does* have the radio) |
| 15:02:57 | Jaykay | why do they have different manuals then? |
| 15:03:37 | amiconn | Well, they wouldn't, but they are two different targets |
| 15:04:04 | amiconn | This is necessary because the scrambling is different - an fmr loader won't load a v2 firmware and vice versa |
| 15:04:22 | amiconn | But once descarmbled the code is identical |
| 15:04:48 | Jaykay | but the manual for all h1xx is also the same file |
| 15:05:31 | funman | ttp://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2009-June/053679.html < an email from Ulrich.Herrmann@ams about SD card / uboot \o/ |
| 15:05:34 | funman | +h |
| 15:06:26 | amiconn | Jaykay: Perhaps someone may add a note about the radio for the v2 only, then they will be no longer identical |
| 15:06:38 | | Join saratoga [0] (i=439f4426@rockbox/developer/saratoga) |
| 15:08:29 | Jaykay | amiconn: there is a note about the radio in the v2-manual... but this note could also be in the manual for both players |
| 15:08:47 | amiconn | Why should it? The fmr always has the radio |
| 15:08:51 | Jaykay | a "Note: some v2's don't have a radio" is enough imo |
| 15:10:28 | muesli_ | is there a way to contact David A Johnston? |
| 15:10:57 | | Join n00b81 [0] (n=n00b81@unaffiliated/n00b81) |
| 15:11:55 | saratoga | muesli_: hes a regular on the mailing lists, have you tried email? |
| 15:13:25 | Jaykay | amiconn: imo there's no need for another manual for a single line, but it's not my choice :) |
| 15:16:13 | muesli_ | saratoga uff..have no clue about the mailing list. just want to contact him since he seems one of the very ones who got a iriver h120 cf-modded |
| 15:16:20 | muesli_ | few |
| 15:16:34 | * | LambdaCalculus37 has to finish his work on FS #10431 already :) |
| 15:16:57 | muesli_ | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DavidAJohnston thats what i found |
| 15:18:22 | funman | muesli_: you can see his email on http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2009-07/0140.shtml |
| 15:18:42 | muesli_ | ah sexy, cheers |
| 15:20:20 | GodEater | anyone else care to comment on this one : http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=22215.msg153250 ? |
| 15:20:37 | Zagor | hmm. maybe the Big Green build table should only show builds with problems? |
| 15:21:10 | GodEater | that "Tango Digital Media Platform" thing in the dmesg output is making my LibGphoto2Bug bump itch. But clearly hal is implemented slightly differently on his distro. |
| 15:21:21 | GodEater | Zagor: that's a nice idea |
| 15:24:46 | linuxstb | Zagor: Isn't it also used to get build details on targets that have worked? But I guess that could be moved to the binsize table (if it even needs to be kept...) |
| 15:26:04 | | Join itcheg [0] (i=4117734b@gateway/web/freenode/x-a77289e156738188) |
| 15:26:26 | Zagor | linuxstb: the only thing it does is give easy access to the logs. we could always keep the big on a separate page for when you want to look at the them. |
| 15:28:17 | linuxstb | Would it be possible to keep a larger archive of build info? Things like binsize for old commits would be interesting to be able to lookup. |
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| 15:33:39 | * | mt points linuxstb to his question about 50 minutes ago :) |
| 15:34:06 | | Quit jfc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:34:21 | * | rasher points linuxstb to rasher.dk/rockbox/graphs/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/graphs/ (although that doesn't have as much info as the build system can retain) |
| 15:34:27 | | Join jfc [0] (n=john@dpc6682208002.direcpc.com) |
| 15:34:43 | muesli_ | funman could you please also provide a link for http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FrankOtto |
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| 15:35:56 | funman | no sorry |
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| 15:40:12 | saratoga | GodEater: I think the Tango Digital Media id is normal for one of the many USB modes in the PP ROM |
| 15:40:33 | saratoga | IIRC its the pre-manufactoring mode or something like that |
| 15:43:40 | GodEater | ah ha |
| 15:44:19 | linuxstb | mt: Yes, I think codecdata == extradata. It's used to init the aac decoder in the call to NeAACDecInit2() in codecs/aac.c |
| 15:46:10 | mt | I guess then I shouldn't bother what those three bytes represent .. I just read them all at once into the codecdata array. |
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| 15:48:30 | linuxstb | mt: Yes, this "extradata" is something which is just passed to the decoder - you shouldn't need to worry about the contents. |
| 15:49:31 | * | mt just thought of doing the same for cook, which should decrease the bin-size a bit. |
| 15:49:34 | linuxstb | rasher: Is that done independently to the main build system? |
| 15:50:03 | rasher | linuxstb: yeah |
| 15:50:12 | gevaerts | yes and no |
| 15:50:22 | * | linuxstb won't say the obvious... |
| 15:50:45 | rasher | Well, I *think* it gets some of the results from the build system, but I'm not entirely sure that bit of it works these days |
| 15:51:27 | gevaerts | it should still work I think |
| 15:51:36 | gevaerts | maybe it will stop tonight though... |
| 15:54:33 | | Quit mt (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:04:15 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 16:04:48 | * | funman just mailed the person paid by austriamicrosystems to port uboot/linux to the as353x SoC used in Clipv2/Fuzev2 |
| 16:07:42 | | Join evilnick [0] (i=0c140464@gateway/web/freenode/x-348fb7d0e92a4bac) |
| 16:08:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | funman: Now to cross your fingers and hope for a good response. :) |
| 16:09:11 | | Join BCM43 [0] (n=simon@dyn-160-39-29-37.dyn.columbia.edu) |
| 16:09:14 | funman | LambdaCalculus37: unlike the last persons i had contact with, this person seems to know what "patch" and "open-source" mean, so I have good hopes |
| 16:09:43 | LambdaCalculus37 | funman: Maybe he'll want to join us in the porting efforts? |
| 16:09:51 | BCM43 | Is rockbox stable on the ipod video 60gb? I installed it for a friend and it keeps crashing. |
| 16:10:21 | saratoga | mt: do the floats in COOKContext do anything? if not would you remove them? it'll save some IRAM |
| 16:10:28 | saratoga | i think they are left over |
| 16:10:39 | funman | LambdaCalculus37: i don't know, i think he works on u-boot/linux on his paid time; i can't tell if he wants to work on open source for free, and i don't imagine austriamicrosystems paying him to work on rockbox |
| 16:10:56 | funman | BCM43: crashing when doing what? |
| 16:11:54 | linuxstb | BCM43: Maybe you need to try the 32MB build |
| 16:12:01 | linuxstb | (but yes, more info is helpful...) |
| 16:12:57 | saratoga | mt: also, the current decoder duplicates a very large trig table between the mdct library and libcook, but removing the duplication is giving me occasional audio glitches so removing it is apparently non-trivial or else I am missing something |
| 16:15:32 | | Nick obo_ is now known as obo (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 16:16:59 | CIA-69 | New commit by zagor (r21878): Master no longer needs time reporting, since it knows that itself. |
| 16:17:42 | muesli_ | petur are you there? |
| 16:17:53 | petur | yes |
| 16:18:37 | muesli_ | nice :) just found your postings for a cd-modded h120 in this thread http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95239.0.html |
| 16:18:43 | muesli_ | cd=cf |
| 16:19:36 | petur | and? |
| 16:20:10 | muesli_ | could you please have a further look on http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=22225.msg153300#msg153300 some details are still not to me |
| 16:20:17 | muesli_ | clear |
| 16:20:17 | | Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-098-026-065-013.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:23:53 | petur | I'm not really up to date on the h1x0 CF mod state wrt bootloaders. I wanted to work on it and bricked my h120 (my own stupid mistake). That was a year ago :/ |
| 16:24:01 | * | petur looks at LinusN |
| 16:24:13 | CIA-69 | New commit by zagor (r21879): Added -ulspeed parameter to limit upload speed. |
| 16:24:27 | muesli_ | mmh..but can you recall what bootloader you have used? |
| 16:24:38 | muesli_ | the standard v6 or the pre-one? |
| 16:24:43 | petur | I didn't... |
| 16:24:45 | CIA-69 | New commit by zagor (r21880): Bumped client revision. |
| 16:25:04 | GodEater | that's how he bricked it |
| 16:25:09 | muesli_ | hehe |
| 16:25:52 | petur | I guess V7 is the way to go |
| 16:26:52 | muesli_ | but could you use the player as an usb-usm device as when using the hdd? |
| 16:27:01 | muesli_ | TODO list for the upcoming bootloader revision |
| 16:27:01 | muesli_ | H100: Support USB Diskmode for CFModded players |
| 16:27:02 | BCM43 | funman: I was trying to get to folders in the menu |
| 16:27:05 | muesli_ | that scares me |
| 16:27:44 | funman | BCM43: you need to provide a complete bug report: which steps exactly you did, what is the result, what is printed on screen |
| 16:28:04 | petur | muesli_: I don't understand that remark in the wiki, USB is handled by a bridge chip in hardware, I don't think the bootloader can do much there |
| 16:28:59 | linuxstb | BCM43: Did you install the 60/80GB build or the 30GB build? If the former, then try the latter. |
| 16:29:32 | | Join Ubuntuxer [0] (n=johannes@dslb-092-073-030-076.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:31:09 | BCM43 | funman: ok, I was using the menu to get to diffrent items, and it would crash every 5 min or so, on artist most often, but on others too. It would simply reboot, showing the apple start up screen. |
| 16:31:18 | BCM43 | linuxstb: but it is a 60gb. |
| 16:32:03 | linuxstb | BCM43: I know. |
| 16:32:27 | soap | BCM43, purchased new from Apple? There is a strong possibility if you bought anywhere else than you have the logic board of a 30GB model inside the case of a 60GB model. The 30GB model has less RAM, and would suffer similar problems if you used the 60/80GB build. |
| 16:32:42 | BCM43 | soap: nowhere near new. |
| 16:33:02 | BCM43 | soap: ok, thanks |
| 16:33:38 | funman | \o/ the ams guy replied |
| 16:33:39 | Grahack | Hi everyone, I noticed that r21863 breaks the Lua plugin. Some statements don't work correctly anymore: string.format('simple %s', 'test') -> "simple" |
| 16:33:57 | linuxstb | funman: Positively? |
| 16:34:45 | funman | not really : http://pastie.org/546840 |
| 16:35:02 | daurnimator | Grahack, hows the lua coding |
| 16:35:21 | funman | I understand that the SD controller is made by Synopsys ? |
| 16:35:33 | Grahack | daurminator: broken at the moment |
| 16:39:41 | funman | Synposys DesignWare Mobile Storage IP (I'm not sure what "IP" means there, it is used a lot on Synopsys website) |
| 16:40:14 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@74.0.180.178) |
| 16:42:20 | saratoga | funman: intellectual property, in this case it usually refers to the combination of the HDL code for the controler, and the code for the drivers |
| 16:42:41 | saratoga | does that person her tells you to contact work for AMS? |
| 16:43:11 | funman | yes, i have already been in contact with him and he seemed interested in rockbox on as3525 |
| 16:43:40 | saratoga | funman: is there any linux source at all for the 353x? |
| 16:43:51 | funman | he didn't answer my mail from april 30th |
| 16:43:57 | funman | no there is no source at all |
| 16:44:31 | saratoga | ah so thats probably the legal issue he refers to |
| 16:45:11 | | Join brokenscreen [0] (n=5dd4a78e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-519ce15ada7f551a) |
| 16:46:01 | saratoga | LambdaCalculus379: I don't understand your reply in the flashwriter thread |
| 16:46:41 | funman | perhaps they want to release the code only to their customers, so there is less change it becomes available in the wild |
| 16:46:45 | funman | chances* |
| 16:47:31 | brokenscreen | is there a help channel ? |
| 16:47:44 | saratoga | this is it, for rockbox anyway |
| 16:48:02 | brokenscreen | ok |
| 16:48:38 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 16:51:09 | brokenscreen | ok well i dont get it baken to create my own menue / wps ~ is there ab GUI that can help me ? |
| 16:51:28 | saratoga | I don't think so |
| 16:53:50 | brokenscreen | ok well how can i tell RB to use only rthe upper right screen part of the display ? | the rest of the display is broken! |
| 16:55:55 | saratoga | in the wps you can simply not draw anything to other parts of the screen |
| 16:55:56 | soap | I'd use the existing voice system. |
| 16:56:10 | linuxstb | brokenscreen: The only way would be to modify the LCD driver and compile your own version of rockbox - not trivial... |
| 16:56:23 | linuxstb | (if you wanted all of Rockbox to just use that part of the LCD) |
| 16:56:29 | soap | as there is no existing framework to rework any part of the user interface outside the WPS. |
| 16:56:58 | mcuelenaere | Grahack: that part should probably get reversed then |
| 16:58:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:58:52 | mcuelenaere | n1s: shouldn't non-Rockbox code not get changed? (RE your strncpy commit) It seems to've broken Lua |
| 16:59:07 | funman | and here we go, i mailed this product marketing manager at AMS again |
| 17:00 |
| 17:05:31 | linuxstb | mcuelenaere: As strncpy is in the plugin lib, I think it makes sense to revert for lua... |
| 17:05:46 | mcuelenaere | linuxstb: yep, I'm going to do that |
| 17:07:12 | gevaerts | brokenscreen: you're probably better off using voice navigation |
| 17:07:13 | | Quit evilnick ("Page closed") |
| 17:07:28 | brokenscreen | nice idea :) |
| 17:07:36 | brokenscreen | thanks i will try that :) |
| 17:07:44 | | Quit funman ("free(random());") |
| 17:07:56 | muesli_ | petur thx 4 help, bye @ll |
| 17:08:44 | brokenscreen | thx 4 help making my ipod blind now :) |
| 17:09:19 | | Quit brokenscreen ("CGI:IRC") |
| 17:09:29 | | Quit muesli_ () |
| 17:11:29 | | Join BryanJacobs [0] (n=bryanjac@128.151.67.243) |
| 17:11:57 | gevaerts | Zagor: maybe an idea for the future : if you send ulspeed to the server, it could conceivably be used for allocation purposes as well |
| 17:12:41 | Zagor | actually we already record actual upload speed |
| 17:12:57 | obo | Zagor: are there still plans to add SSL and/or (verified) usernames/passwords to the new build system? |
| 17:12:58 | gevaerts | ah, true. Probably more reliable |
| 17:13:00 | Zagor | and yes, it could be used. especially to avoid re |
| 17:13:18 | Zagor | really slow uplinks getting big builds |
| 17:14:04 | Zagor | obo: yes, but not today. we'll start with a free-for-all. |
| 17:14:16 | BryanJacobs | what are the current build clients like? |
| 17:14:22 | CIA-69 | New commit by Ubuntuxer (r21881): Fix a bug in lib display_text.h, which inserts a unwanted blank line |
| 17:14:29 | saratoga | Zagor: I'm curious if you think its worth using 7zip for uploads? the builds are MUCH smaller in that format |
| 17:14:36 | Zagor | BryanJacobs: in what respect? |
| 17:14:41 | BryanJacobs | hardware specs |
| 17:14:43 | Zagor | saratoga: it probably is, yes |
| 17:14:47 | saratoga | though it would require substanital time for the server to repack to zip |
| 17:14:51 | Zagor | BryanJacobs: _very_ varied |
| 17:15:03 | Zagor | saratoga: aha, is it that much slower? |
| 17:15:15 | gevaerts | BryanJacobs: they range from 8-core xeon machines to arm :) |
| 17:15:40 | saratoga | Zagor: 7zip (de)compression is quite fast, but you still have to rezip them on the other end since we distribute zips |
| 17:15:44 | Zagor | BryanJacobs: the new system is designed to accomodate any speed. from very slow to very fast. |
| 17:15:51 | CIA-69 | New commit by Ubuntuxer (r21882): Tiny bug fix for help text in pegbox |
| 17:15:54 | BryanJacobs | would a dual Xeon 3060 with a 100Mbps uplink, 2TB of hard drive space, and 3GB of RAM be helpful? |
| 17:16:03 | | Quit BCM43 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:16:10 | gevaerts | yes, very |
| 17:16:14 | Zagor | BryanJacobs: yes. every client is helpful. and such a beast is very much so. |
| 17:16:47 | Zagor | saratoga: ah, true. I'll guess we'll wait a bit with 7zip |
| 17:16:58 | CIA-69 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r21883): Revert r21863 partly: fixes Lua |
| 17:17:13 | BryanJacobs | I also have a dual Xeon E5310 kicking around |
| 17:17:21 | saratoga | its a shame we can't just use 7z for the downloads, zip seems to work particularly poorly for rockbox for whatever reason |
| 17:17:28 | BryanJacobs | also with 100Mbps uplink |
| 17:17:56 | BryanJacobs | build crosscompilers now :-) |
| 17:18:49 | BryanJacobs | why build after every commit - why not do bisection only in the event that something comes up red in a daily build? |
| 17:19:25 | Zagor | because we can :-) and we like to get fixes done as soon as possible. |
| 17:19:34 | gevaerts | by that time whoever made the mistake has gone to sleep |
| 17:20:02 | BryanJacobs | w/e, my power is included so no big deal |
| 17:20:03 | Zagor | shortly we'll be getting the CIA bots to yell here in the channel when a build fails |
| 17:20:22 | gevaerts | Zagor: make sure to rate-limit that :) |
| 17:20:50 | Zagor | well as long as the builds take a few hundred seconds each, I'm sure we're pretty safe from spamming :) |
| 17:21:09 | BryanJacobs | where can I see a list of build clients? |
| 17:21:33 | Zagor | there's no such list. clients come and go as they choose. |
| 17:21:55 | Zagor | here's a list of those who participated in the build of r21877: http://build.rockbox.org/data/21877-clients.html |
| 17:22:15 | BryanJacobs | hm. this is also rather insecure. |
| 17:22:39 | BryanJacobs | I mean, any rockbox dev can run arbitrary code on the build clients, and in addition the current implementation is vulnerable to a MitM |
| 17:23:21 | soap | What sort of SVN commit would run arbitrary code on a build client? |
| 17:23:28 | Zagor | yes it is. we'll be straigtening it up a bit later, but we're too impatient to wait for it :) |
| 17:23:42 | BryanJacobs | but it'd be so easy to gpg-sign revisions... |
| 17:23:43 | dionoea | soap: a makefile change for example |
| 17:23:44 | saratoga | you could edit the make files or configure script to run whatever you wanted |
| 17:23:50 | gevaerts | you can run things in a VM if you like. |
| 17:23:52 | Zagor | but in the end it will always be inherently unsecure as long as we build things from svn |
| 17:24:06 | Zagor | yes chroot or vm is a good idea |
| 17:24:09 | BryanJacobs | gevaerts: I think I will, I've got Xen already running VMs |
| 17:24:12 | saratoga | but honestly unless you're running this thing as root its probably not a huge deal |
| 17:24:25 | BryanJacobs | filling up the hard drive would be bad enough |
| 17:24:31 | BryanJacobs | even /tmp can do that |
| 17:24:48 | gevaerts | BryanJacobs: in that case I think it's a no-brainer. That also seriously reduces the risk of accidentally breaking the build environment for the client |
| 17:25:10 | BryanJacobs | yep, a full VM sounds like the way to go |
| 17:25:15 | BryanJacobs | chroots aren't good enough |
| 17:25:26 | saratoga | but yes some sort of secure communications would be nice so that I don't have to worry putting this on school machines and such |
| 17:25:31 | BryanJacobs | I'll even give it a dedicated IP address, Because I Can (TM) |
| 17:25:43 | gevaerts | BryanJacobs: now that *is* overkill |
| 17:26:12 | BryanJacobs | I have one anyway - so why not? No packet processing in the Dom0 this way |
| 17:26:25 | BryanJacobs | otherwise I'd have to NAT it |
| 17:28:48 | Zagor | saratoga: secure comm doesn't help. any dev can still change the rbclient script. |
| 17:29:31 | gevaerts | Zagor: not really. Update commands are for a specific revision |
| 17:29:48 | Zagor | gevaerts: ok, so change a Makefile then |
| 17:30:17 | gevaerts | those are the real risk, yes, unless you personally turn evil :) |
| 17:30:26 | saratoga | i'm not too concerned about developers |
| 17:32:22 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:32:36 | Zagor | saratoga: so basically you just want svn over ssl? |
| 17:32:55 | | Join evilnick [0] (i=0c140464@gateway/web/freenode/x-0e567c69905fbac3) |
| 17:33:02 | * | BryanJacobs thinks that it should be svn over ssl so that nobody EXCEPT rockbox devs can inject code into the machine |
| 17:33:10 | saratoga | secure communication with the build master, yeah |
| 17:33:10 | BryanJacobs | otherwise, anybody can |
| 17:33:28 | BryanJacobs | also it'd be nice to have verifiable revision signatures |
| 17:33:44 | BryanJacobs | kinda like monotone enforces |
| 17:33:51 | | Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") |
| 17:33:54 | saratoga | i don't know enough about networking to comment on the best way to do that though |
| 17:34:08 | BryanJacobs | and while we're on the wishlist, how about a DVCS instead of SVN? |
| 17:34:11 | Zagor | BryanJacobs: does svn support that? |
| 17:34:38 | Zagor | BryanJacobs: we have git-svn support |
| 17:34:42 | BryanJacobs | Zagor: svn has no built-in support for signed revisions. But you could still do a GPG signature on the manifest which would do the trick |
| 17:35:04 | Zagor | the manifest? pardon my ignorance :) |
| 17:35:07 | BryanJacobs | where is this mythical git? |
| 17:35:17 | saratoga | check the wiki |
| 17:35:25 | BryanJacobs | sorry, there's a unique identification for each revision |
| 17:35:26 | saratoga | theres a page explaining how to use it IIRC |
| 17:35:34 | Zagor | BryanJacobs: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GitVersionControl |
| 17:35:46 | BryanJacobs | if you sign that the whole revision is essentially verified provided that the hash is secure |
| 17:37:42 | BryanJacobs | eww, this git-svn thing is icky |
| 17:38:03 | saratoga | don't use it problem solved |
| 17:38:45 | * | BryanJacobs wants to use HG |
| 17:39:02 | BryanJacobs | http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/WorkingWithSubversion |
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| 17:41:03 | | Join BCM43 [0] (n=simon@dyn-160-39-29-37.dyn.columbia.edu) |
| 17:41:32 | BCM43 | why does rockbox not ignore the preceding "the"? |
| 17:41:49 | gevaerts | BCM43: because "the" is a drink in many languages |
| 17:41:59 | BCM43 | gevaerts: really? |
| 17:42:30 | Zagor | BCM43: every "why does rockbox not" question generally has the same answer: because nobody has implemented it |
| 17:43:03 | gevaerts | BCM43: also, where do you sort things like "The The"? |
| 17:43:22 | BCM43 | gevaerts: under the, you only ignore the first one. |
| 17:43:46 | gevaerts | BCM43: should it also ignore "le", "die", ...? |
| 17:44:35 | BryanJacobs | ideally it would be based on the language of the file name |
| 17:44:35 | BCM43 | gevaerts: you could set it to do or not do that, or use the system language |
| 17:44:47 | saratoga | i always thought the simplist option was to pick a half dozen of the most common articles, always ignore them, and wait for this to annoy someone enough that they implement a language independent system with the lang files . . . |
| 17:44:57 | BryanJacobs | unfortunately that's not really feasible without some heuristics, so system language setting is a good second place |
| 17:45:18 | BryanJacobs | saratoga: I'm with you :-) |
| 17:45:20 | * | gevaerts thinks that there is no halfway good way to do this |
| 17:45:22 | BCM43 | saratoga: lol, annoy people till they fix it. |
| 17:45:33 | gevaerts | BCM43: you *can't* fix it |
| 17:45:55 | obo | There is a patch to use artistsort tags in the DB: FS #7287 |
| 17:45:58 | BryanJacobs | gevaerts: well, first build a database of every song ever written (and those that have yet to be written)... |
| 17:46:43 | BryanJacobs | from a theory perspective, if we had a black-box that accepts a song name and outputs the language in which it's written, this is a solvable problem |
| 17:46:55 | BryanJacobs | provided that there are no words that are articles or not depending on context |
| 17:47:34 | * | gevaerts thinks that sort tags are the right way to solve this |
| 17:47:48 | saratoga | just because you can't make a solution that works for 100% of all possible inputs, doesn't mean you acn't make one that works for all common inputs and fails harmlessly on the others . . . |
| 17:48:09 | BCM43 | BryanJacobs: I geuss you could just chage the band name to Doors, the |
| 17:48:17 | gevaerts | saratoga: I'm just not thinking about this from an anglocentric point of view |
| 17:48:37 | saratoga | gevaerts: I don't think i'm being anglocentric here |
| 17:48:48 | BryanJacobs | we can just throw up our hands if the tag is encoded in UTF-foo |
| 17:48:50 | saratoga | we could easily enough make the article list be present in the lang file for instance |
| 17:49:00 | saratoga | its only centric to languages that have articles |
| 17:49:15 | saratoga | which at least would include french, spanish and german |
| 17:49:27 | gevaerts | saratoga: that would work if articles in one language wouldn't be nouns or verbs in another |
| 17:49:32 | BryanJacobs | saratoga: what if I have my spanish songs pop (Paulina Rubio) on my english-language player? |
| 17:49:57 | BryanJacobs | song tile "La Costa Verde" wouldn't be sorted as "Costa Verde, La" |
| 17:49:58 | saratoga | again, you can't be right everytime but you can be right most of the time for most people |
| 17:50:10 | saratoga | thats why you make it a setting |
| 17:50:35 | saratoga | and let people use funny file name, sort tags, or whatever if they can't manage |
| 17:50:47 | amiconn | [17:17:21] <saratoga> its a shame we can't just use 7z for the downloads, ... <== Why is that? |
| 17:50:57 | | Quit Windlord ("http://windlord.co.cc/") |
| 17:51:03 | saratoga | amiconn: well I guess we could :) |
| 17:51:12 | saratoga | though i bet we'd have people complaining about it |
| 17:51:12 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@87.211.49.117) |
| 17:51:33 | BryanJacobs | I dunno... 7z is about the best free compression program for Windows |
| 17:51:41 | BryanJacobs | and it's readily available on all major Linux distros |
| 17:51:57 | saratoga | i'm sure we'd annoy Mac users though who tend to use oddball programs |
| 17:52:04 | amiconn | saratoga: It would probably be a very good idea if rbutil would support 7zip |
| 17:52:12 | saratoga | of course they're still welcome to use rbutil . . . |
| 17:52:21 | BryanJacobs | no kidding about Mac users. Cyberduck? Who came up with that name? |
| 17:52:25 | saratoga | hmm maybe not such a bad idea afterall |
| 17:52:54 | saratoga | make sure rbutil works with 7z, tell users to use rbutil, or if they want to do manual installs get 7z support |
| 17:53:08 | BryanJacobs | that doesn't sound half bad |
| 17:53:24 | BryanJacobs | the nontechnical people use rbutil anyway, and the technical ones have no problem decompressing a 7z archive |
| 17:53:28 | saratoga | would save us a lot of bandwidth |
| 17:53:52 | | Quit Zagor ("Don't panic") |
| 17:53:53 | * | BryanJacobs has a few TB of hosting bandwidth to spare |
| 17:53:54 | BryanJacobs | you need some? |
| 17:54:14 | saratoga | you could probably setup a download mirror if you wanted to |
| 17:54:33 | BryanJacobs | how much traffic do you guys get in a month? |
| 17:56:51 | saratoga | hundreds of thousands of .rockbox downloads |
| 17:57:19 | saratoga | which incidently means 7zip woudl save us hundreds of GB of bandwidth a month |
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| 17:57:47 | BryanJacobs | hundreds of thousands, eh? |
| 17:57:53 | * | BryanJacobs goes to do some math |
| 17:58:24 | gevaerts | BryanJacobs: have a look at http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2008/05/15/rockbox-downloads-april-2008/ |
| 17:58:28 | at0m | rasher: i just launched binsize-client.sh.. |
| 17:59:01 | gevaerts | this doesn't include mirros |
| 17:59:36 | BryanJacobs | this isn't bad, that's less than a terabyte of traffic total |
| 17:59:57 | BryanJacobs | I have 3TB to spare per month |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:02 | BryanJacobs | @100Mbps |
| 18:00:30 | BryanJacobs | hm. |
| 18:00:41 | BryanJacobs | give me a week or two to set up a dedicated Rockbox VM |
| 18:00:52 | gevaerts | BryanJacobs: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4755. Those people might want some help with hosting |
| 18:01:27 | BryanJacobs | hosting a converted version of wikipedia? |
| 18:01:36 | BryanJacobs | I already have an XML mirror |
| 18:02:15 | gevaerts | the plugin isn't ready for commit yet, but if it gets in, lots of people will want a pre-converted version |
| 18:02:20 | BryanJacobs | torrents sound like a good idea for something like that |
| 18:02:32 | BryanJacobs | large files are best served P2P |
| 18:02:44 | BryanJacobs | the 600k rockbox build zips are not |
| 18:02:47 | rasher | at0m: it should let you in now. But it's not terribly important - gevaerts' host manages to keep up with the builds |
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| 18:03:37 | gevaerts | BryanJacobs: just suggesting things :) |
| 18:04:12 | | Quit saratoga ("Page closed") |
| 18:04:46 | at0m | rasher: ah ok.. will let it run a couple days for a try. didn't know how much of a bottleneck building was |
| 18:06:49 | rasher | at0m: it might not let you in for another 30 minutes iirc the system caches the list or hosts to allow |
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| 18:09:36 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 18:10:26 | funman | BryanJacobs: i was wondering if you have fixed yourself milestones for your gsoc project |
| 18:10:56 | funman | to know if you have fullfilled all the requirements, and are now doing "extra work" outside the gsoc program |
| 18:12:18 | BryanJacobs | funman: yeah, I did come up with milestones |
| 18:12:30 | BryanJacobs | I'm a little more than halfway done with them |
| 18:12:57 | BryanJacobs | left would be seeking support, sound for the more esoteric (read: non-stereo) hybrid files, and getting a patch integrated |
| 18:13:20 | funman | non-stereo as in mono or more channels? |
| 18:13:27 | BryanJacobs | take your pick? |
| 18:13:27 | funman | or both |
| 18:13:38 | BryanJacobs | mono, 6-channel, and 32-bit? |
| 18:13:50 | BryanJacobs | I'll definitely do mono and maybe the other two |
| 18:13:54 | BryanJacobs | also floating point |
| 18:14:12 | funman | I don't know if there is a channel mixer already in rockbox |
| 18:14:21 | BryanJacobs | there must be for the ac3 |
| 18:14:22 | pixelma | gevaerts: HID less build seems to do the trick with my c250 on this Mac... I automatically get the two volumes when I connect to USB. Although compared to last week I also updated the bootloader, maybe that could be a reason why it works now too. Any ideas what to check? |
| 18:14:25 | BryanJacobs | it supports 5.1 |
| 18:14:48 | funman | BryanJacobs: what do you mean by "floating point" ? I thought no rockbox target had a fpu |
| 18:15:14 | BryanJacobs | Wavpack has an integer floating point system |
| 18:15:17 | | Quit Strife89 ("Vamoose!") |
| 18:16:29 | funman | aren't "integer" and "(floating) point" mutually exclusive? |
| 18:16:51 | funman | or do you mean a floating point representation in integer registers |
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| 18:16:53 | BryanJacobs | no, it does no floating point operations (thus, "is an integer system") but represents floating point data |
| 18:17:04 | funman | okay |
| 18:17:05 | BryanJacobs | you got it there on the second line :-) |
| 18:17:12 | funman | thanks for the explanation |
| 18:17:22 | funman | and good luck for your work! |
| 18:17:41 | BryanJacobs | thanks |
| 18:18:10 | funman | when you are done with wavpack, i might have work for you related to buffering .. ;) |
| 18:18:48 | BryanJacobs | but I'm already working on buffering... |
| 18:19:00 | BryanJacobs | one of the things I have to do is modify buffering to support two files at once |
| 18:19:09 | funman | i have started reading buffering.c/playback.c to fix problems on the Clip/m200v4/c200v2 (the ones with a tiny tiny audio buffer) but I didn't continue |
| 18:19:17 | | Join AndyI [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 18:19:33 | BryanJacobs | I think I understand how they work, so feel free to ask any questions |
| 18:19:41 | funman | I saw that, and thought now you would be more familiar with that code than most of us |
| 18:19:55 | funman | thanks, i'll ping you when i open up those files again ;) |
| 18:20:25 | bertrik | funman, I've been thinking a bit whether we could implement a kind of a continuous built-in-self-check |
| 18:20:34 | | Quit petur ("work->....") |
| 18:20:45 | funman | bertrik: what do you want to check exactly? |
| 18:20:59 | bertrik | like adding magic values between data that we check at each thread switch, so we can check if something is corrupting something else |
| 18:21:26 | funman | i don't think the problem has to do with corruption, more like an infinite loop when the buffer is nearly full, which can be aborted under certain conditions |
| 18:21:28 | bertrik | add checks on missing initialisation / double initialisation on kernel/thread functions |
| 18:21:31 | BryanJacobs | those would be called cookies btw |
| 18:21:57 | BryanJacobs | they're used as part of many modern stack- and heap-protection schemes |
| 18:22:09 | bertrik | add checks to some functions to see if they are called from interrupt context while not allowed |
| 18:22:15 | funman | at least it is exactly what i saw on c200v2 when loading AA, not sure if the exact same problem affects the clip/m200v4 which don't use AA |
| 18:22:51 | BryanJacobs | how much memory do these targets have? |
| 18:22:52 | funman | there is already a cookie mechanism for threads stacks (the last entry of the stack = 0xdeadbeef) |
| 18:23:07 | bertrik | IIUC, the 'ticks tasks' run in interrupt context, but this may not always be obvious when browsing through the code |
| 18:23:13 | funman | 2MB of SDRAM + 384kB of another kind of SDRAM (IRAM) |
| 18:23:50 | BryanJacobs | ew. So maybe you should just eliminate the disk buffer and use only a PCM buffer? (as in, make the buffering calls just read from the disk directly and pass through into the codec) |
| 18:23:57 | funman | bertrik: right, but afaik only the button reading is made in tick tasks? |
| 18:24:22 | bertrik | if you have to ask means you don't know ! :P |
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| 18:25:04 | bertrik | I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of these checks would already trigger if we added them to rockbox |
| 18:25:14 | funman | BryanJacobs: right, nico_p even made a patch for this some time ago |
| 18:25:36 | bertrik | for example, quite a few mutex locks were used uninitialised until recently |
| 18:26:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | Heh... according to talk in #linux4nano-dev it turns out that the nano2g may have a similar, if not same, LCD as the Meizu M3. :) |
| 18:26:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb found a few addresses and other bits of info that indicate that. |
| 18:26:53 | funman | well there is much more tick tasks |
| 18:27:07 | bertrik | funman, indeed the playback stops on the clip et al. seem to be too "clean" to be actual crashes |
| 18:27:18 | funman | LambdaCalculus37: wasn't it already known that the lcd _screen_ is identical? |
| 18:27:36 | amiconn | BryanJacobs: Tests have shown that direct-read playback on flash targets still costs battery runtime compared to proper buffering |
| 18:27:49 | amiconn | Not as much as on hdd targets, but still significant |
| 18:27:59 | funman | amiconn: i see no battery bench on fs#9332 |
| 18:28:04 | pixelma | gevaerts: got to go now though - so any testing and checks need to be delayed |
| 18:28:05 | LambdaCalculus37 | funman: Not to my knowledge, no. |
| 18:28:18 | bertrik | the LCD controller addresses will be the same as they are part of the s5l8700 SoC |
| 18:28:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | funman: But now I do know. :) |
| 18:28:25 | bertrik | LambdaCalculus37, would be nice if it could be re-used |
| 18:29:14 | BryanJacobs | amiconn: I can guarantee that would only be the case in the event of data reuse from the buffer (codec calls bufseek backwards) |
| 18:29:34 | BryanJacobs | for linear-access files that CAN'T be true |
| 18:30:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | bertrik: I think it can be done. |
| 18:30:28 | amiconn | BryanJacobs: It *is* true, and there's even an explanation |
| 18:31:10 | BryanJacobs | but but but... if you have buffering, the cost to get a byte to the codec is cost(disk read)+cost(memory copy)+cost(memory read) - with direct-from-disk it's cost(disk read)+cost(memory read) |
| 18:31:32 | Torne | BryanJacobs: but codecs don't read in conveniently flash-block-aligned increments :) |
| 18:31:36 | BryanJacobs | ah! |
| 18:31:46 | BryanJacobs | I've got it. Thanks, Torne |
| 18:31:50 | amiconn | Most (all?) flash storage devices auto-sleep after a few milliseconds without access. So if you access it constantly, reading only small blocks at a time, it will never sleep |
| 18:32:01 | Torne | also that |
| 18:32:04 | BryanJacobs | and write batching, that too |
| 18:32:07 | Torne | constantly opening pages, even different pages, is expensive |
| 18:32:12 | amiconn | But if you do proper buffering, you read a large chunk, then let it sleep |
| 18:32:20 | BryanJacobs | I was just thinking of the flash chips as true random-access devices |
| 18:32:43 | funman | amiconn: then perhaps we can tweak the buffer size if we know this auto-sleep time |
| 18:33:05 | BryanJacobs | funman: "as large as possible" is the global optimum |
| 18:33:18 | amiconn | The tweak is to make it as large as possible, like on hdd targets |
| 18:33:31 | BryanJacobs | :-) |
| 18:33:34 | amiconn | It's the same effect, only to a lower degree |
| 18:33:52 | bertrik | I can imagine there's some kind of knee, above which any improvement is marginal |
| 18:34:03 | amiconn | Yes, sure |
| 18:34:25 | BryanJacobs | not if the flash chip staying asleep matters... |
| 18:34:25 | bertrik | and my guess is that it's a lot smaller than the full RAM |
| 18:34:25 | Torne | bertrik: yes, but that's also true of hdd targets, no? |
| 18:34:26 | amiconn | Typical auto-sleep times seem to be around 20..50ms |
| 18:34:33 | BryanJacobs | the larger the buffer the lower the active/inactive ratio |
| 18:34:43 | Torne | bertrik: which is why the 64mb ipod video doesn't get significantly better battery performance than the 32mb version if you normalise for the battery capacity |
| 18:35:18 | BryanJacobs | Torne: that might also be because we don't buffer up a user's whole playlist? |
| 18:35:24 | Torne | yes we do |
| 18:35:40 | BryanJacobs | my "Woman in White Suite" is larger than the whole buffer |
| 18:35:41 | amiconn | Torne: Someone should test that using lossless audio files on a 64MB ipod. I'm sure the difference is measurable |
| 18:35:45 | Torne | on the ipods it's because if the buffer is twice as big it takes twice as long to fill |
| 18:35:59 | Torne | eventually the power drawn by the actual transfer dominates instead of the spinup power |
| 18:36:14 | Torne | it's still an improvement, but much less than it is at lower memory sizes |
| 18:36:15 | amiconn | The power drain by the actual transfers is the same |
| 18:36:26 | Torne | ..uh, yes |
| 18:36:27 | Torne | hang on |
| 18:36:29 | BryanJacobs | gotta love asymptotic behavior |
| 18:36:31 | * | Torne pokes self |
| 18:36:53 | Torne | amiconn: why would lossless make any difference? |
| 18:37:11 | amiconn | Because it consumes the data much more quickly |
| 18:37:45 | amiconn | Torne: There is *one* usage case where a very large buffer is actually worse than a smaller one - if the user is undecided what to listen |
| 18:37:53 | Torne | amiconn: yah, that's true |
| 18:38:08 | * | Torne is only considering battery benches, really, rather than reality :) |
| 18:38:16 | Torne | i can't see how the codec matters, though |
| 18:38:32 | Torne | i would expect the same relative difference between 32/64mb regardless of codec as long as the playlist is bigger than the buffer |
| 18:38:52 | Torne | as far as i've seen from mine and other people's benches, the difference is 50% |
| 18:39:03 | Torne | which is the difference in stock battery capacity between the two models |
| 18:39:12 | amiconn | It doesn't matter whether the playlist is bigger or smaller than the buffer, due to the way rockbox buffering works |
| 18:39:18 | BryanJacobs | I wouldn't expect the same relative difference, because the ambient consumption matters more if that data are consumed more quickly |
| 18:39:39 | Torne | BryanJacobs: well yes, sorry. you would have to also normalise for playback current usage |
| 18:39:42 | soap | codec matters in that the effect of the large buffer is likely hidden behind the rather disproportionately large "static" consumption of all the common components. |
| 18:39:58 | amiconn | Rockbox buffering doesn't go back. If the playlist is smaller than the buffer and repeat is enabled, it will buffer another copy of the playlist after the first, and then another one etc |
| 18:40:16 | soap | a low CPU / high disk consumption pattern would be needed to see a significant variation in power consumption. |
| 18:40:17 | Torne | amiconn: ah, didn't know that, and all the batter ybench instructions explicitly say to use one larger than ram, so i assumed it was |
| 18:40:24 | BryanJacobs | which is one of the things I'd like to fix, but OK... |
| 18:41:06 | Torne | soap: yes, sorry |
| 18:41:08 | amiconn | Yeah, that's just to play safe, in case someone forgets to change the instructions when changing buffering behaviour |
| 18:41:08 | Torne | you are right |
| 18:41:09 | soap | since EverythingButTheCPU appears to be eating most the battery anymore. |
| 18:42:01 | amiconn | Higher bitrate will cause more freqquent spinups, so the disk access becomes a larger fraction of overall power consumption. |
| 18:42:26 | * | Torne blames his inability to do arithmetic :) |
| 18:42:31 | * | Torne can only do math |
| 18:43:36 | amiconn | Just imagine you have an album that is exactly 4 times the size in lossless (flac) as it is in lossy (mp3), and that album fits exactly into the buffer on a 64MB ipod |
| 18:43:37 | BryanJacobs | or you could look at it as "the access rate from the disk averages to the bitrate of playback, so higher bitrate means more power drawn by the disk" |
| 18:43:41 | BryanJacobs | even with no cost for spinning up |
| 18:43:52 | Torne | amiconn: yesyes, i see it now |
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| 18:44:13 | Torne | though for the ipodvideo specifically the effect might still be small compared to the fact that the 64mb version has a 50% larger battery :) |
| 18:44:17 | amiconn | So on a 64MB ipod you would have 1 spinup perhour (assuming the album plays 60min), on a 32MB ipod you would have 2 spinups per hour |
| 18:44:24 | Torne | which is a pretty hard improvement to beat |
| 18:44:36 | amiconn | For lossless this would mean 4 spinups per hour on 64MB and 8 spinups per hour on 32MB |
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| 18:44:57 | BryanJacobs | a compelling case for using a lossless codec over raw PCM! :-P |
| 18:45:09 | Torne | BryanJacobs: as if there weren't cases fo rhtat before? :) |
| 18:45:18 | BryanJacobs | I saw a retarded thread the other day about it |
| 18:45:49 | BryanJacobs | http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/alac-vs-flac-my-very-first-impressions-172058/ there we go, for a laugh |
| 18:46:30 | Torne | i guess if you had a flash based player with a large enough ram the cpu cost of decoding the codec might actually make it more power efficient to just buffer pcm, since the difference between idle and active flash consumption could be less than the difference between boosted and unboosted playback |
| 18:46:35 | Torne | :) |
| 18:46:40 | amiconn | BryanJacobs: Btw, if I did understand the explanation of hybrid wavpack properly, it should be possible to reconstruct a lossless stream from lossy+correction without full decoding |
| 18:47:01 | amiconn | I'm not 100% sure - this is a kind of math I don't understand well |
| 18:47:05 | Torne | but if yo uhave a flash based player you probably don't have room for pcm files :) |
| 18:47:07 | BryanJacobs | amiconn: it almost is full decoding, you're only skipping the entropy step |
| 18:47:20 | BryanJacobs | it's certainly NOT something you want to do inside the buffering thread |
| 18:47:34 | BryanJacobs | unless that thread runs on a COP or something |
| 18:48:23 | soap | Torne, in that case you should likely decrease the CPU frequency at boost, or add a third frequency as you're apparently wasting cycles when at full boost - else you're consuming the same number of cycles to get compressed->uncompressed regardless of when you do it - be it upon buffering or later. |
| 18:48:52 | ej0rge | BryanJacobs: what's depressing is not a month goes by on head-fi when you don't see someone questioning whether lossless is really lossless |
| 18:48:54 | amiconn | Iiuc lossy+correction is produced by quantizing rice codes. So that step should be reversable without decoding |
| 18:49:18 | Torne | soap: that would still have such a point, jus tlater. If your boost freq was exactly the rate required to, say, decode flac in realtime then it's sitll possible for boosting the cpu to be more expensive than reading from flash, in theory |
| 18:49:26 | rasher | at0m: errr... your binsize client is broken |
| 18:49:35 | Torne | whether this is likely on any particular hardware, i have no idea. probably not. |
| 18:49:38 | BryanJacobs | ej0rge: I wrote a program which sample-for-sample compares WAV files, I don't suppose that would be enough to convince people? |
| 18:49:39 | Torne | but it's not impossible |
| 18:49:41 | ej0rge | BryanJacobs: too much magical thinking at that site, and i get so tired of telling people that flac sounds exactly like pcm for the same reason that the math in a spreadsheet isn't corrupted by putting it in a RAR file |
| 18:50:26 | soap | the modern audiophile claims that the CPU load being higher during lossless is what accounts for the audible difference. |
| 18:50:32 | bertrik | it could be that the processor leaks noise into the audio |
| 18:50:38 | soap | *compressed lossless |
| 18:50:52 | Torne | hehe |
| 18:51:09 | ej0rge | soap: or they raise the bogeyman of 'jitter' |
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| 19:00 |
| 19:00:01 | dz | soap: we clearly need to do some proper double-blind testing to make said audiophiles look like clowns |
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| 19:00:53 | linuxstb | bertrik: I'm assuming from reading the drivers that we don't know the different lcd controllers in the Meizu M3? |
| 19:01:48 | bertrik | linuxstb, I know next to nothing about the meizu lcd drivers |
| 19:02:00 | bertrik | maybe markun does |
| 19:02:01 | linuxstb | Denes isn't around any more? |
| 19:02:30 | bertrik | denes signed off 4 months and 13 days ago |
| 19:02:35 | linuxstb | :( |
| 19:03:10 | n00b81 | He left the project? |
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| 19:13:47 | funman | still can't get SD status register transferred even after correcting my code .. :( |
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| 19:23:23 | funman | if you want to help : http://pastie.org/547043 |
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| 19:31:23 | linuxstb | bertrik: BTW, the Nano2G seems to have the LCD controller at a different address to the 8700 - it's at 0x386000xx instead of 0x3c1000xx |
| 19:32:00 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht2@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 19:32:41 | | Join itcheg [0] (i=4117734b@gateway/web/freenode/x-3fcdec5575013c45) |
| 19:32:42 | bertrik | linuxstb, ok, interesting, didn't expect that |
| 19:33:02 | linuxstb | No, but it looks like TheSeven has confirmed it - he's making the LCD do things now... |
| 19:33:20 | TheSeven | yep |
| 19:33:26 | TheSeven | red/green/blue screen works |
| 19:33:37 | TheSeven | black/white and all that, too, of course :-P |
| 19:34:00 | bertrik | very cool |
| 19:34:16 | gevaerts | TheSeven: can you look at the meizu M6 LCDs one of these days? ;) |
| 19:34:43 | TheSeven | well, depends on what you mean by "look" |
| 19:34:58 | gevaerts | I mean "make them work" of course! |
| 19:35:20 | | Quit M ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 19:36:02 | itcheg | QI have a Ipov video, i'm using a build from abt a month ago and when I use it with a FM tranmitter via the dock (using IAP) the info for next song shows in giberish |
| 19:36:04 | TheSeven | well, i don't have such a thing... |
| 19:36:35 | itcheg | when I use it with out the FM transmitter all shows fine |
| 19:37:00 | itcheg | This is what I'm using for next %s%alNext: %Ia;%t4%s%alNext: %?It<%It|%Fn> |
| 19:37:55 | itcheg | any ideas on why using the IAP would cause this? |
| 19:38:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: What builds so far with the nano2g code in the trunk? |
| 19:38:28 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: The bootloader builds, but I haven't tested it, or checked that any of the code shared with the Meizu will work... |
| 19:38:40 | | Quit Grahack ("Leaving.") |
| 19:38:56 | linuxstb | I should be able to spend some time on that over the next few days, and get an lcd driver working... |
| 19:39:10 | | Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@rockbox/developer/saratoga) |
| 19:39:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: I can try sending a bootloader to the nano2g using iBugger and see what it does. Hopefully we get something. |
| 19:39:39 | bertrik | I tried to take care to append -s5l8700 to any source file strictly related to the s5l8700, and -meizu to source files that do something meizu-specific |
| 19:39:55 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: You won't see anything... |
| 19:40:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Ahh, right, right. |
| 19:40:17 | linuxstb | bertrik: First thing will be to add a s5l8701 define - as registers look to be in different places... |
| 19:40:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: You also added a tool to the trunk for working with the nano2g, didn't you? |
| 19:40:44 | linuxstb | Yes, it's "bin2note" - the same as my "bin2htm" included with iBuggerLoader. |
| 19:41:01 | | Join mc2739 [0] (n=mc2739@cpe-72-181-28-23.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 19:41:05 | linuxstb | You can use that (and the Makefile) to turn "loader.asm" into "loader.htm" if you so desire. |
| 19:41:25 | | Join QncfOpO [0] (n=michi@e181138232.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:41:26 | bertrik | linuxstb, yes, it would be cool if we could share drivers even if they are at different addresses |
| 19:41:59 | linuxstb | bertrik: Maybe it will be as simple as defining things like "LCD_BASE", and specifying the registers relative to that. |
| 19:42:14 | linuxstb | But I guess we'll find out... |
| 19:42:28 | linuxstb | I expect we can even share the M3's lcd driver... |
| 19:42:52 | mc2739 | funman: should http://pastie.org/547043 line 133 be mutex_unlock(&sd_mtx); instad of mutex_lock? |
| 19:43:13 | linuxstb | Although there are two LCD variants on the Meizus? |
| 19:43:30 | | Join evilnick_7 [0] (i=0c140464@gateway/web/freenode/x-cf574c5f9e7b90cc) |
| 19:43:31 | gevaerts | there are indeed |
| 19:43:46 | linuxstb | Lovely #ifdef hell... |
| 19:44:09 | funman | mc2739: right.. |
| 19:44:22 | soap | Do you wish to discuss the user-list here, Llorean? |
| 19:44:49 | linuxstb | funman: You said earlier that it was known that the Nano2g had the same LCD as the Meizu? |
| 19:44:51 | evilnick_7 | What is the objection to having a moderated (user) mailling list? |
| 19:45:12 | saratoga | moderated as in how? |
| 19:45:31 | funman | linuxstb: i remember reading that someone had replaced a nano2g screen with a meizu screen (or the reverse) |
| 19:45:32 | Llorean | evilnick_7: If a new list needs started, its an unofficial one to be unmoderated. |
| 19:45:34 | linuxstb | evilnick_7: I would guess the objection would be that someone would have to modify it... |
| 19:45:42 | linuxstb | s/modify/moderate/.... |
| 19:45:48 | bertrik | linuxstb, the m3 comes with either a wolfson or a philips codec, the OF supports both by what seems to be an if-statement for each time the codec has to do something |
| 19:45:59 | itcheg | saratoga any ideas? (I think you commited the IAP patch) |
| 19:46:02 | linuxstb | funman: Ah, interesting. |
| 19:46:07 | evilnick_7 | Good question; I guess moderated as in a certain group of people can approve messages as they are sent in?? |
| 19:46:11 | Llorean | soap: So the suggestion is "if you're having difficulty solving the problem, give up" |
| 19:46:12 | soap | For I go back to my primary point: Repeating a behavior expecting different results is insane. So long as you narrowly define the possibilities so as to justify the behavior you repeatedly engage in you are guaranteeing the same (I would argue harmful) results. |
| 19:46:14 | funman | i can't find it again on google though |
| 19:46:24 | Llorean | soap: OFFER POSSIBILITIES. |
| 19:46:31 | soap | I have offered three |
| 19:46:35 | soap | stop shouting, please. |
| 19:46:39 | Llorean | List them again, I've missed them clearly. |
| 19:46:46 | soap | 1 - Moderate the list. |
| 19:46:49 | Llorean | I acn't do that. |
| 19:46:53 | soap | why not? |
| 19:47:09 | Llorean | Because that's not something I have access to do? |
| 19:47:19 | saratoga | delete the list, use the forums instead |
| 19:47:35 | soap | I never said "Llorean, you make the list moderated" |
| 19:47:43 | saratoga | itcheg: I committed it but I didn't write it and I don't have an ipod |
| 19:47:57 | soap | The only Rockbox user mailing list run by rockbox.org CAN be moderated. |
| 19:48:00 | Llorean | soap: Well, we were discussing what *I* should or should not be doing, or at least you kept directing a lot of "you" at "me" |
| 19:48:38 | soap | It appears to me you would be unwilling to accept your powerlessness over the problem. |
| 19:49:12 | Llorean | According to what? |
| 19:49:17 | soap | Clearly the "need" for these long emotional threads has not diminished over time. I therefore would say the success rate of current policy to be a big fat zero. |
| 19:49:25 | | Quit funman ("free(random());") |
| 19:49:25 | saratoga | itcheg: I think the usual response though to devices that don't work with the IAP is to either investigate whats missing and implement support for whatever your device needs from it, or wait for someone else to take an interest in the problem and do it for you |
| 19:49:25 | Llorean | soap: that's dumb, honestly |
| 19:49:36 | Llorean | Have you seen me respond to any of the half dozen top posters since I left? |
| 19:49:48 | Llorean | No, I'm only responding to the people who've responded to this one thread I created upon leaving. |
| 19:49:53 | gevaerts | itcheg: do you mean the text is wrong on the player? |
| 19:49:54 | soap | Go ahead - continue to piss off the masses in your self-righteous crusade. |
| 19:50:00 | Llorean | And that's because they are already engaged in a conversation with me. |
| 19:50:14 | soap | you didn't have to respond. You could leave their sick behavior to be their own problem. |
| 19:50:34 | Llorean | soap: You honestly think I feel *superior* because of this? |
| 19:50:42 | soap | did I suggest you did? |
| 19:50:48 | soap | *do |
| 19:50:49 | Llorean | You called me "self righteous" |
| 19:50:56 | itcheg | gevaerts: the issue is that for next song it works under normal circumstance but if I use an fm transmitter via the dock is shows gargles text |
| 19:51:04 | Llorean | So, yes, you said so at least. I guess you may have mis-used it. |
| 19:51:07 | soap | what is your motivation? |
| 19:51:10 | gevaerts | itcheg: on the player? |
| 19:51:14 | itcheg | yes |
| 19:51:26 | itcheg | ipod video 64 (5.5 gen) |
| 19:51:31 | Llorean | soap: Well, prior to leaving, it was "nobody else enforces them, we need to either remove them or do so" |
| 19:51:49 | gevaerts | hm, that really shouldn't happen, regardless of whether the transmitter works or not... |
| 19:52:00 | | Join M [0] (n=7bf3fc5d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7f86ba2519005807) |
| 19:52:17 | itcheg | the interesting thing is that I had used the patch with my own build before it was committed and it worked fine |
| 19:52:35 | Llorean | soap: The easiest solution is to simply remove the rule about top-posting. |
| 19:52:40 | soap | what you just said in quotes is the sort of black-and-white thinking which leads, IMHO, to these threads. |
| 19:52:46 | | Join n1s [0] (n=n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 19:53:16 | Llorean | soap: So what, we should pick and choose who's allowed to top post to maintain a nice healthy shade of gray? |
| 19:53:33 | Llorean | You're using hyperbole again, rather than suggesting changes. |
| 19:53:39 | gevaerts | itcheg: I can't really test this (I don't have the needed toys). Can you submit a bug report? |
| 19:53:39 | soap | If by correcting every single misstatement in the thread under question you believe you accomplish anything except perpetuating the sick discourse, you are mistaken. |
| 19:54:13 | soap | I call it self-righteous as there appears to be no error, no matter how small, you are willing to let go uncorrected. |
| 19:54:13 | itcheg | sure, but need to make an account... |
| 19:54:29 | itcheg | let me try with latest build first |
| 19:54:55 | soap | There seems to be an amazing inability to simply walk away from a conversation until the other side has either left or submissively appeared to agree to your points. |
| 19:54:57 | Llorean | soap: That would be something else, since self-righteous contains a rather different meaning that that. |
| 19:55:33 | Llorean | I'll also walk away when the other side says "I disagree, but have no new points to offer on this" or when I personally feel I've run out of new points to offer. |
| 19:55:36 | itcheg | gevaerts: is there anything wrong with this: %s%alNext: %Ia;%t4%s%alNext: %?It<%It|%Fn> that could be causing something like that |
| 19:56:05 | JdGordon| | itcheg: IIRC you cant put scrolling in sublines? |
| 19:56:06 | gevaerts | itcheg: I'm not too familiar with wps syntax, but I wouldn't think so |
| 19:56:19 | soap | really? What new facts did you bring to the table in your most recent post to the user mailing list? |
| 19:56:31 | soap | (the reply to DavidD) |
| 19:56:40 | gevaerts | At least, whatever you do wrong there (if any) it shouldn't cause the behaviour you're seeing |
| 19:57:17 | Llorean | soap: Well, the fact that I've never banned anyone from the list for one. |
| 19:57:29 | soap | Valuable information there. |
| 19:57:29 | | Quit M ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 19:57:40 | soap | Worth continuing a public argument I'd say~ |
| 19:57:52 | Llorean | Oh, yes, I should instead let someone spread a lie about what's actually happened? |
| 19:57:53 | soap | Cure is worse than the disease. |
| 19:58:00 | soap | "spread a lie" - |
| 19:58:01 | soap | lol |
| 19:58:08 | Llorean | You think it's truth that I've banned people? |
| 19:58:09 | soap | That, in a nutshell, is the problem again. |
| 19:58:47 | soap | You honestly believe that DavidD was spreading lies that you kick people? |
| 19:59:01 | Llorean | I honestly believe that DavidD posted to our public list with information that was wrong. |
| 19:59:10 | Llorean | And that if other people didn't know better, they could believe it was true. |
| 19:59:15 | soap | There isn't a _chance_ that the line of his you quote could not be taken something less than 100% literally? |
| 19:59:28 | saratoga | I don't think arguing about people's arguments is productive |
| 19:59:37 | Llorean | soap: What's it supposed to be taken as, exactly? |
| 19:59:40 | saratoga | either propose a solution to whatever problem you percieve or let it go |
| 19:59:49 | Llorean | "He said I've banned people, but he really meant I've asked them politely not to top post"? |
| 19:59:50 | | Quit n1s (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:59:51 | soap | Self-righteous: Your responsibility to correct every little factual error. |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:01 | Llorean | That's not what self-righteous means. |
| 20:00:08 | soap | saratoga, I have proposed three solutions. |
| 20:00:14 | soap | 1 - make the list moderated. |
| 20:00:21 | Llorean | And frankly, the idea that I've been banning people from the list is not a *little* error |
| 20:00:27 | soap | 2 - try someone other than Llorean dealing with problem users. |
| 20:00:28 | evilnick_7 | "Being a dick to people then kicking out anybody that complains is not an acceptable way to interact with a community." Is not explicitly saying that anyone is doing/has done this. |
| 20:00:38 | Llorean | soap: I've stopped dealing with problem users anyway. |
| 20:00:45 | soap | 3 - take the discussions of, and handling of, problem users off-list. |
| 20:01:31 | saratoga | all of those presume that the list is kind of useless as a way to discuss things |
| 20:01:47 | soap | and I think a strong case can be made that it is. |
| 20:01:48 | saratoga | in that they discourage people from using the list to discuss things |
| 20:01:59 | saratoga | take this logic to its conclusion |
| 20:02:00 | evilnick_7 | saratoga: It pretty much is, the way things are right now. |
| 20:02:21 | soap | As these threads continue, and continue to be a sizable percentage of the total list. If they were "useful" or "functional" the need for them would cease. |
| 20:02:22 | | Join M [0] (n=7bf3fc5d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b2305642db67ab01) |
| 20:02:41 | Llorean | soap: As to #3, have you actually tried that? |
| 20:02:53 | soap | yes, I email about two people a week. |
| 20:03:16 | soap | I have no powers to remove anyone from the list - so I simply point out the rules, do not threaten. |
| 20:03:34 | Llorean | I've never threatened. |
| 20:03:36 | saratoga | i don't think any of those are likely to work, but I like #1 best since in practice it would mean that most people wouldn't use the list |
| 20:03:41 | soap | didn't suggest you had. |
| 20:04:32 | soap | saratoga, perhaps they won't work. I think it is reasonable, though, to say what is currently being done isn't working. |
| 20:04:33 | Llorean | #3 has never worked for me. Even a simple "We've asked that you please not top post to the list. If you're having difficulty, let me know what client you're using and I'll see if I can help" has gotten me extremely rude responses. |
| 20:04:36 | M | Hey, could anyone tell me how I might add a virtual led toggle to the ui simulator? |
| 20:04:46 | soap | Llorean, I have NEVER gotten a rude response. |
| 20:04:46 | Llorean | And by never I mean, literally, never. |
| 20:04:58 | soap | no response? Often. |
| 20:05:21 | Llorean | I've gotten no response from people who've also not changed their behaviour. |
| 20:05:36 | evilnick_7 | soap: Maybe you could let us know what you put in an example off-list message? |
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| 20:05:42 | soap | and justifying current behavior, if we take it as broken, as the only option when "no behavior" is always an option is also false. |
| 20:06:01 | Llorean | soap: The option "no behaviour" should be rewritten as "drop the rule" then |
| 20:06:11 | Llorean | If you aren't enforcing the rule, it doesn't really exist. |
| 20:06:17 | soap | lol, here we go again with taking it to extremes. |
| 20:06:27 | Llorean | How is it not the case? |
| 20:06:41 | Llorean | If you say "we've written this rule down, but will never enforce it" you're saying "this rule isn't really there" |
| 20:06:42 | soap | A holiday from an "enforcement" policy which doesn't work is hardly a suggestion to "drop the rule". |
| 20:06:53 | Llorean | How is it a holiday? |
| 20:07:14 | Llorean | Why *can't* we just drop the rule, exactly? |
| 20:07:34 | Llorean | If nobody's willing to try to enforce it, why do we have it? |
| 20:07:35 | soap | You are the one defining your current enforcement policy as the only possibility. A comfortable definition for it pretty much ensures the answer is "continue as before". |
| 20:07:56 | Llorean | soap: Elaborate, please. |
| 20:07:56 | soap | Regardless of the utter failure of current enforcement tactics. |
| 20:09:10 | Llorean | Your suggestions for better policies are 1) Make the list moderated (but nobody has stepped up to do this in the last several years), 2- someone else do it (nobody has stepped up to do this, and I've left the job anyway so 2 is currently inaction) and 3- take it off list |
| 20:09:12 | soap | Elaborate? Half of what you have said to me in this channel the last 20 (?) minutes and all that you have said to me in the mailing list is a narrow definition of the possibilities. All with the self-evident result that current policy = only possible policy = no need to change visibly broken ways. |
| 20:09:31 | Llorean | I've asked you time and again to offer broader definitions. |
| 20:09:38 | soap | of what? |
| 20:09:46 | Llorean | you're the one saying I've narrowed them |
| 20:09:47 | Llorean | Shouldn't you know? |
| 20:09:52 | soap | You dismiss my broader definitions before I even get started. |
| 20:09:59 | Llorean | Get started on what? |
| 20:10:30 | soap | A holiday from an "enforcement" policy which doesn't work is hardly a suggestion to "drop the rule". |
| 20:10:44 | Llorean | Again - holiday how |
| 20:10:53 | soap | you let the current thread die. |
| 20:11:03 | Llorean | You're either not enforcing the rule at all, in which the rule is dropped, or you're replacing it with another enforcement policy. |
| 20:11:05 | soap | regardless of how many "wrong" things are said in it. |
| 20:11:24 | Llorean | What does the current thread have to do with the enforcement policy, at all? |
| 20:11:58 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@94.51.196.117) |
| 20:12:04 | soap | no - you act much more pragmatically and realize that sometimes you cause your ultimate goal more harm by continuing to press your point (no matter how valid) in the face of resistance than to let all parties calm down and address it again at a later date. |
| 20:12:15 | soap | What is your goal? |
| 20:12:28 | Llorean | Now? Fuck all. I'm not talking to top posters. |
| 20:12:56 | | Quit _lifeless (Client Quit) |
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| 20:13:53 | Llorean | Seriously, is this a discussion about what *I'm* doing, or about what the list needs to be doing. |
| 20:14:16 | | Quit mc2739 ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]") |
| 20:14:44 | Llorean | If it's about what I'm doing, you can stop now. I've stopped attempting to ask people to follow the rules in anywhere but this one thread, and you can either get it closed when it actually qualifies as no longer about Rockbox or the Rockbox list, or you can leave me alone because it's technically on-topic if those are on topic. |
| 20:14:56 | Llorean | If it's about the list, do what you want with it. I left that to you guys quite some time ago. |
| 20:18:25 | | Join MHael [0] (n=7bf3fc5d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-db09ba93be0eb7fe) |
| 20:20:05 | soap | as of 40 hours ago you were still carrying on a conversation in defense of your handling of top-posters. |
| 20:21:41 | Llorean | And I didn't deny I was doing that. |
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| 20:32:35 | MHael | Hey, could anyone tell me how I might add a HDD activity virtual LED toggle switch to the UI Simulator? |
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| 20:33:24 | funman | amiconn: what's the point of declaring a const char testbasedir[] in test_disk.c when TESTBASEDIR could be used? |
| 20:33:56 | funman | i want to extend test_disk to test multiple drives |
| 20:34:54 | | Quit BCM43 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:35:18 | JdGordon| | MHael: uisimulator/* |
| 20:35:30 | JdGordon| | cant really be more specific atm though :p |
| 20:35:56 | MHael | I figured that much. :P |
| 20:36:57 | JdGordon| | umm... its not like the hold or usb faking which is pretty easy |
| 20:37:15 | * | JdGordon| isnt sure the best way to do it |
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| 20:45:01 | MHael | I figure it's controlled by ata_idle_notify so if I could modify that to toggle on and off? |
| 20:47:10 | JdGordon| | its not, but you could toggle it there.. |
| 20:47:22 | JdGordon| | but I assume you would actually want to control it somehow? |
| 20:47:47 | MHael | Yes |
| 20:47:57 | | Quit stoffel (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:48:56 | JdGordon| | you want this to make sure your WPs is good yeah? |
| 20:49:33 | MHael | Yeah |
| 20:50:22 | JdGordon| | so my suggestino would be to use the %mh tag (hold button) instead of the diosk activity tag while you are testing |
| 20:51:11 | MHael | lol |
| 20:51:20 | MHael | I never would've thought of that |
| 20:51:25 | MHael | Thanks |
| 20:51:28 | JdGordon| | :) |
| 20:51:41 | JdGordon| | or... work on the wps editor app :) |
| 20:52:55 | MHael | I haven't even made a wps yet, this is my first. I haven't even put rockbox on my iPod. |
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| 21:08:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: I build a nano2g bootloader. Going to try it out. |
| 21:10:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | bin2note is complaining "Payload too big!" whenever I point it to the bootloader.bin file I just built for the nano2g bootloader. |
| 21:11:31 | JdGordon| | its not trying to add a bootloader splash image is it? |
| 21:11:49 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: Yes, you don't upload it directly with bin2note - you use iBuggerLoader to load it. |
| 21:12:17 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: But I'm not sure yet how to do that... |
| 21:12:41 | linuxstb | There's at least one change in crt0.S that should be removed - switching the CPU into big-endian mode. It's four lines ending with the comment "// set big-endian" |
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| 21:25:09 | MHael | Thanks for your help JdGordon| |
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| 21:31:41 | BdN3504 | OK guys i have to bother you one last time about the gigabeat flashwriter plugin. i was now able to compile a build conatining that plugin and now the only question i have is to how it works: do simply execute it on target? do i have to put any of the bins provided on the patch tracker to the device as well, or will this plugin write to the flash autonomously without me providing any further files?also, i didn't |
| 21:36:04 | | Quit robin0800 ("Don't follow me") |
| 21:36:41 | gevaerts | BdN3504: I think you got cut off. That line ends with "also, i didn't" |
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| 21:45:14 | BdN3504 | enable rtc in the config-gigabeat.h, will the plugin not work properly now? |
| 21:49:41 | | Join freetripleg [0] (n=44122fbd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-4f6b986afef53ad5) |
| 21:50:08 | freetripleg | hey anyone know how to tell if a fuze is v1 or v2? forum search function is fail. |
| 21:50:43 | BdN3504 | afaik, there are fuze v1 and v2s |
| 21:50:58 | advcomp2019 | freetripleg, only with the firmware version |
| 21:51:16 | freetripleg | ok... |
| 21:52:33 | | Quit QncfOpO (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:52:46 | freetripleg | ahhh, updater says v2 nuts, that means I must wait much longer for rockbox |
| 21:53:43 | freetripleg | thanks for the quick answer |
| 21:53:46 | | Quit freetripleg (Client Quit) |
| 21:53:49 | BdN3504 | erm, how do i use this plugin again? i try install/update bl but i get ABORT: this is an untested etc. but people have reported they flashed anyway, how did they do that? |
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| 22:00 |
| 22:04:53 | BdN3504 | ok, i have to copy the bootloader from the patchtracker to the root directory and then try again right? that's why i asked... |
| 22:05:49 | | Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 22:05:53 | bertrik | has anyone ever seen a reference to (or a datasheet of) a WM1800 codec? |
| 22:06:05 | bertrik | I assume it's a wolfson |
| 22:06:41 | bertrik | Or a touch key controller from a manufacturer called Melfas? |
| 22:10:56 | | Join Grahack [0] (n=chri@stc92-1-82-227-106-100.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:11:16 | pixelma | hmm... if e.g. the Pegbox menu isn't using custom bitmaps anymore, those could be removed or am I missing something? |
| 22:12:18 | | Join dash32 [0] (n=dash32@p54AB41FD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:12:27 | linuxstb | pixelma: That would seem reasonable... |
| 22:13:01 | linuxstb | bertrik: Never heard of it... Are you sure that's the right model? |
| 22:13:21 | * | pixelma looks around for Ubuntuxer... in vain once more |
| 22:13:43 | bertrik | the WM1800 is mentioned in a disassembly video and I also find it as a string in the firmware upgrade image |
| 22:14:23 | linuxstb | Well, there seem to be 100s of wolfson codecs, and only some are mentioned officially... |
| 22:14:55 | pixelma | although... I put a bit of work in the adaptation of these bitmaps to different screens... but I understand that custom bitmap menus can cause trouble |
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| 22:15:07 | | Join HellDragon [0] (i=jd@modemcable178.248-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:15:27 | linuxstb | bertrik: Google tells me the PSP uses it though... |
| 22:16:18 | | Quit BdN3504 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 22:16:19 | pixelma | I just thought that maybe the background could be kept or so... |
| 22:17:42 | JdGordon| | pixelma: nag various people to allow viewport background images so they can be kept :) |
| 22:18:05 | linuxstb | Why would you need a viewport background image? |
| 22:18:13 | | Quit HellDragon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:18:25 | pixelma | just set a backdrop I thought |
| 22:19:47 | JdGordon| | sure if you want to do it the boring way.... |
| 22:19:48 | bertrik | linuxstb, thanks, didn't know that yet |
| 22:20:17 | | Join HellDragon [0] (i=jd@modemcable178.248-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:20:27 | linuxstb | bertrik: Odd that there's no mention at all on wolfson's website though... |
| 22:20:54 | pixelma | what does that have to do with boring? |
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| 22:33:19 | | Quit stephen_ ("Leaving") |
| 22:36:37 | CIA-69 | New commit by amiconn (r21884): Further ARMv6 imdct optimisation, ~5.5% speedup. |
| 22:39:49 | amiconn | That is overall decoding speedup |
| 22:42:19 | amiconn | Hmm, new build table still has no progress indicator... |
| 22:43:01 | gevaerts | amiconn: that's to motivate you to run a build client, so you get the countdown messages |
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| 22:45:02 | amiconn | I don't get to see those when running it in teh background |
| 22:46:05 | gevaerts | we clearly need to be able to run a user-contributed script on certain events |
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| 22:52:09 | saratoga | faster iMdct for mpegplayer ;) |
| 22:53:07 | | Quit robin0800 ("Don't follow me") |
| 22:54:58 | amiconn | saratoga: By-product of learning how to use armv6 extensions... |
| 22:58:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:59:13 | linuxstb | bertrik: Are interrupts enabled in the bootloader on the Meizu/ |
| 23:00 |
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| 23:18:55 | stripwax | anyone seeing data aborts on pp (ipod 5g) usb happening when windows mounts the device? seems to have started with a recent (local) build, where it's 100% reproducible and I don't *think* anything usb-related is patched, but i'll test an official build too |
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| 23:20:07 | pingosimon | Hey guys, I'm on Mac OS X and my newly Rockbox'd ipod won't show up on the desktop or disk utility when I plug it in |
| 23:20:34 | pingosimon | the iPod screen shows the USB icon |
| 23:21:04 | gevaerts | Which version are you using? Current build or release? |
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| 23:21:30 | pingosimon | the current build, I did a manual install |
| 23:22:00 | gevaerts | ok. Which version of OS X is this? |
| 23:22:01 | | Quit jfc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:22:11 | pingosimon | 10.4 |
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| 23:23:31 | CIA-69 | New commit by zagor (r21885): Removed use of bogomips. Changed uname -o to uname -s. |
| 23:23:50 | gevaerts | hm, it looks like os x 10.4 has a bug with USB composite devices... |
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| 23:25:29 | pingosimon | hmm |
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| 23:25:37 | pingosimon | do you know of a way to fix that? |
| 23:25:41 | gevaerts | This is the second report I've seen about this sort of thing. You basically have three options : boot to the original firmware manually when you need USB, install the latest release (3.3) (that one boots to the emergency disk mode on connect), or compile your own build |
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| 23:26:59 | pingosimon | yeah I tried to install the latest release using Rockbox Utility, but I got the "could not open iPod" error that nobody has seemed to be able to fix |
| 23:27:06 | | Join jfc [0] (n=john@dpc6682208002.direcpc.com) |
| 23:27:14 | gevaerts | you can install that one manually as well |
| 23:30:41 | pingosimon | where can I find the version number within rockbox? |
| 23:30:53 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: I think we need something like FS #10198 to handle this case as well (i.e. disable HID while using a storage connection) |
| 23:31:00 | gevaerts | pingosimon: System->rockbox info |
| 23:31:06 | Zagor | JdGordon: can you try the latest rbclient on mac osx? |
| 23:31:10 | | Quit DarkDefender ("Leaving") |
| 23:31:14 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: ? |
| 23:31:33 | | Quit stephen_ ("Leaving") |
| 23:31:40 | JdGordon| | Zagor: yeah sure, but unfortunalty that configure issue means i cant participate uin the builds for a while |
| 23:31:40 | pingosimon | hmm I think this is the latest, r21869-090714 |
| 23:32:26 | Zagor | JdGordon|: oh right, the path thing |
| 23:32:51 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: apparently older versions of OS X can't handle composite devices with both usb storage and HID. Either we disable HID totally, or we make it optional. I don't think os x 10.4 users will like us if we don't make things work for them |
| 23:33:16 | * | JdGordon| has no idea what you're talking about... but ok |
| 23:33:27 | gevaerts | pingosimon: that's a "current build" from yesterday. The release is something different (currently 3.3) |
| 23:33:44 | pingosimon | ah ok, thanks a lot! I'm gonna try 3.3 right now |
| 23:33:52 | JdGordon| | Zagor: should be version 27? |
| 23:33:54 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: FS #10198 is the "USB charge only setting" patch |
| 23:34:04 | JdGordon| | OH... ok |
| 23:34:33 | * | gevaerts thought that JdGordon| knew all FS numbers by heart! |
| 23:34:34 | CIA-69 | New commit by dave (r21886): Introduce S5L8701 CONFIG_CPU definition for Nano2G and a new CPU_S5L870X "family" define - the 8700 and 8701 are proving to be different. Also move ... |
| 23:34:52 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: it did sound familiar :) |
| 23:35:07 | Zagor | JdGordon|: oh, I didn't bump the client version yet. I'll do that after this build round. |
| 23:35:44 | bertrik | linuxstb, yes, interrupts are enabled in the meizu m3 bootloader |
| 23:36:01 | bertrik | I think sleep even works |
| 23:36:50 | B4gder | old build system: disabled |
| 23:36:54 | gevaerts | \☺/ |
| 23:37:24 | JdGordon| | RIP :p |
| 23:37:49 | | Quit bmbl ("Bye!") |
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| 23:40:28 | pingosimon | Regarding installing 3.3 on an ipod that already had a daily build: can I just replace the old .rockbox folder with the new one? |
| 23:40:35 | pingosimon | or do I need to run ipodpatcher again? |
| 23:40:54 | gevaerts | just replace .rockbox |
| 23:40:57 | pingosimon | cool |
| 23:41:12 | pingosimon | except now even witht he ipod firmware loaded,, it won't show up on the computer |
| 23:41:25 | linuxstb | not cool |
| 23:41:35 | gevaerts | do you have itunes running? Maybe that hides it |
| 23:41:41 | pingosimon | nope, itunes is off |
| 23:41:47 | linuxstb | But installed? |
| 23:41:59 | pingosimon | oh wait there it is |
| 23:42:13 | linuxstb | You need to enable the "use ipod as a disk" option in itunes. |
| 23:42:16 | pingosimon | yes I do have itunes installed, but the auto sync feature is disabled |
| 23:42:20 | pingosimon | yeah that's enabled too |
| 23:42:28 | gevaerts | so it was just a bit slow? |
| 23:42:33 | pingosimon | anyway, it's here on the desktop now! |
| 23:42:42 | pingosimon | yeah it took about 2 minutes |
| 23:42:47 | CIA-69 | New commit by bagder (r21887): Added Philips SA9200 sim and bootloader builds |
| 23:43:24 | JdGordon| | stop adding builds! arnt we trying to get under 5 min :p |
| 23:43:37 | pingosimon | Do any of you guys use rockbox to play NSF SPC or SID files? |
| 23:44:02 | linuxstb | B4gder: Did you disable the old build system half-way through it building my commit? ;) |
| 23:44:36 | B4gder | yes |
| 23:44:52 | B4gder | not exactly intended, but hey |
| 23:44:54 | * | linuxstb tries not to be offended ;) |
| 23:45:28 | Zagor | linuxstb: you got it built faster this way! :) |
| 23:45:41 | linuxstb | Yes, if I wasn't staring at the old page... ;) |
| 23:46:12 | * | Zagor renames new.cgi to dev.cgi |
| 23:48:43 | gevaerts | so no chance of having to go back? We can clear the old setups? |
| 23:50:33 | B4gder | what setups? |
| 23:51:13 | gevaerts | the rbclient login and corresponding checkout |
| 23:51:24 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p4FE8EFFD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:51:53 | B4gder | ah yes those can be wiped, but you could possibly wait a day or two before you proceed with that |
| 23:52:04 | pingosimon | Ok with Rockbox 3.3, the ipod does show up on the desktop, after leaving it plugged in for 2-3 minutes. Maybe I just wasn't patient enough when trying with the daily build |
| 23:52:10 | gevaerts | ok. No problem with that |
| 23:52:42 | gevaerts | pingosimon: you could try. If you do, please report back |
| 23:53:02 | pingosimon | will do |
| 23:53:29 | pingosimon | this seems to have the same USB speed problem as the nano did |
| 23:53:34 | DerPapst | pixelma: about the pegbox background, you could viewportify the menu and shift it down so that it is not drawn on top of the pegbox "logo" |
| 23:53:38 | | Quit robin0800 ("Don't follow me") |
| 23:54:14 | DerPapst | i've done something similar for battleships (which is still not tracker ready. darn real life :P) |
| 23:55:59 | gevaerts | pingosimon: yes. You're now in the apple emergency disk mode, which is slower than the normal USB code. The native rockbox code (which you get with a current build) is a bit faster, but not as fast as the original firmware (we know how to make it faster, but that's still not in shape for the official builds) |
| 23:56:04 | Zagor | which is the slowest build client yet? did someone run an arm machine? |
| 23:56:26 | gevaerts | Zagor: monster is a 1.2GHz armv5 (sheevaplug) |
| 23:56:42 | gevaerts | It seems to be faster than rasher's cygwin client though |
| 23:56:57 | | Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") |
| 23:57:41 | Zagor | I'm about to add a 800 MHz Via C3 |
| 23:58:06 | gevaerts | we'll see. hal is a 900 MHz Celeron M |
| 23:58:17 | Zagor | celeron is a monster compared to c3 |
| 23:58:36 | gevaerts | celeron M is really not very impressive :) |
| 23:58:51 | * | Zagor dramatically throws a glove on the floor |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).