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#rockbox log for 2009-07-27

00:00:06JdGordon|if we just do put in your votes and count then 2 weeks is plenty
00:00:16JdGordon|if we do volanteering first then it needs to be longer
00:01:10funmanwhat do you mean by "volanteering" ?
00:02:05JdGordon|last year we first did 2 weeks to give people the opportunity to say they want X person in the running
00:02:20JdGordon|narrowed the field down from the 60+ commiters to a dozen or 2
00:02:54 Quit darkless ("Leaving")
00:05:11funmani hadn't think about it, i think it's perhaps a simpler way (less persons to choose from)
00:05:50 Quit r0b- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:06:00 Join r0b- [0] (
00:06:57linuxstbBagder: Last year, did many people turn down being nominated for the RSB?
00:07:06 Quit r0b- (Client Quit)
00:07:43BagderI think one did, but I can't recall exactly who now
00:08:10JdGordon|I like the simplest solution... everyone just puts down 5 names, 1 point each... the top 5 win... if any of those say no then it goes tot he next one
00:08:57 Join safetydan [0] (n=deverton@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
00:08:57*linuxstb would be happy with that
00:09:17*Bagder too
00:09:18 Quit stripwax ("")
00:09:40*funman would be happy regardless the option
00:11:08JdGordon|ok so should I kick off the process then?
00:11:27gevaertsJdGordon|: there was this other detail that Bagder mentioned. Who gets to vote?
00:11:50sintheteki cannot seem to move any pieces in chessbox
00:11:56sinthetekforce-move works though
00:11:57JdGordon|I would say anyone on the commiters ml
00:12:01BagderI think we can make it simple, those who are on the list
00:12:03funmanwho are the people reading the committers mailing list, but not committers ?
00:12:21funmanand the committers not subscribed to the committers mailing list
00:12:28JdGordon|funman: well the svn ml is -cvs and the patch ml is -sf so why should commiters be for what it says?
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00:13:17funman-cvs has an historical meaning and if -sf is a typo for -fs then it means FlySpray
00:13:27JdGordon|both are historical
00:13:33JdGordon|sf is sourceforge :)
00:13:39funmanokay :)
00:14:12funmanwhat i mean is if these people are actively contributing to rockbox then we shouldn't deny them the right to vote
00:15:30JdGordon|anyone activly contributing shuold be concidered for more access...
00:15:56 Nick wincent_balin is now known as wincent_ (
00:16:01JdGordon|your argument is also to not accept votes for the plenty of previous contributers who we havnt seen in months...
00:16:48*gevaerts proposes "anyone who is either on the committers list or in docs/COMMITTERS"
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00:17:04funmanif they are going to vote they will be active again
00:17:07JdGordon|if they arnt on the list they wont see the email
00:17:26funmangevaerts: i agree, but how will people in docs/COMMITTERS but not on the list be aware ?
00:17:53gevaertswhy does the mail have to be to the committers ML? It can also go to -dev (or both)
00:18:22funmanyou're a clever person
00:18:24gevaertsit's not as if the existence of the RSB or the existence of the vote are confidential
00:18:36 Quit bmbl ("Bye!")
00:20:55 Quit roolku ()
00:22:24JdGordon|putting on -dev means that other people are going to flood it with "why cant i vote" or they just will send names in thiking they can...
00:22:29JdGordon|people the AW...
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00:24:03gevaertsJdGordon|: if people send a mail to you, you need to check anyway
00:24:05funmanif the explanation of who can vote is clear enough it wouldn't be the case (not too much)
00:24:45JdGordon|I really cant imagine anyone being in COMMITERS who isnt on that ml but is on -dev
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00:25:54gevaertsI can live with committers only, but I don't know how many people are not on it
00:26:40scorchei would just use committers...
00:27:00Bagderthat's what we used last year...
00:29:32JdGordon|ok, 5 names each, unordered, commiters ml only... everyone happy?
00:30:32*scorche thinks it might be easier with nominations first due to the committers list getting longer, but if that overhead isnt wanted /shrug
00:30:37*funman is happy
00:31:41JdGordon|I really dont think nominations are needed
00:31:46*JdGordon| kicks this thing off
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00:41:16pixelmaheh, the new "long" pad is 42 pixels wide for the 112 wide screen...that's more than one third...
00:41:17 Quit barrywardell (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:42:20pixelmaand wider than the graphics for the 132 pixel wide c200 screen
00:45:01pixelmaaha, all monochrome screens use the same graphics, so this could be the reason why it's so wide (made for the 160x128 M:Robe100 screen as the width is the same as the other 160x128 graphics)
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00:48:14JdGordon|ok, cast yee votes!
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00:49:55 Quit Zagor ("Clint excited")
00:50:59AsaelReiterpixelma: I tried to use same proportions in all files.
00:51:20AsaelReiterpixelma: (140% for the long, 70% for the short)
00:51:41pixelmaof the old one?
00:52:21 Quit dmb ("Leaving")
00:52:46pixelmaI think screen size would matter here too, doesn't it? And I don't know how the old "plain" size was chosen
00:53:16 Nick n00b81 is now known as n00b81|afk (n=n00b81@unaffiliated/n00b81)
00:55:29pixelmaif it's too wide, it's not a real power "up" anymore as it is also more likely to catch a "D" or so. But I should get some sleep and will postpone it, it's not critical just something to think about
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00:56:23JdGordon|pixelma: thats not a problem... thats one of the downsides to it...
00:56:28JdGordon|otherwsie tis just silly
00:56:48 Quit ender` (" There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one")
00:56:51JdGordon|I havnt tired it out yet.. does it grow and shrink like normal versions? or just have a set small and big size?
00:57:51AsaelReiterIt's just have 3 sizes.
00:59:45JdGordon|any chance of making it grow and shrink?
01:00:08*JdGordon| has been wanting to do that for years :p
01:00:26pixelmaI would just try to make sure it's the same percentage of screen width, and for some reason I think you get different results than now (but can't think about it now and it is also dependent on how the original sizes were chosen). I seem to remember that the standard width on the Archos screens was bigger onve until someone decided it's too hard this way
01:01:08pixelmaonce too - and I'm off. Good night
01:02:52AsaelReiterJdGordon: I think that it will more complex, but it is possible.
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01:04:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:06:50AsaelReiterJdGordon: Actually, the hard part is the glue. We need to deplicate a part of the paddle, and to make it seems good.
01:07:14JdGordon|yeah, I didnt think that would be too hard though
01:07:28JdGordon|you just need a very small middle bit, and 2 small end bits
01:07:36JdGordon|stick them in 1 .bmp and glue in code..
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01:09:58AsaelReiterJdGordon: Well, My graphicall skills are not bigs, but I can write the code, if you will create the BMPs.
01:10:28JdGordon|oh snap :p
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01:11:21JdGordon|actually, you could possibly do it without editing the bmp's... just define how far from the edge the ends are and how wide a single section of the middle is
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01:11:50AsaelReiterYes, but it will be ugly.
01:12:05JdGordon|ugly codewise or ugly looking?
01:12:19AsaelReiterugly looking
01:12:27JdGordon|isnt the middle a regular pattern?
01:13:04AsaelReiternot in the glue paddle
01:13:34JdGordon|stpid glue paddle :p
01:13:47JdGordon|thats the worst powerup in the game :D
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01:16:36AsaelReiterwell, if you will make it more regular, I will write the code
01:17:21AsaelReiterAnyway, we need wait to mixelma deciding about the proportions
01:17:24JdGordon|pass :) I have no graphical abolity
01:17:35*JdGordon| is off
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01:19:29AsaelReiterWell, I have to sleep, if I want to wake up at morning.
01:19:32AsaelReitergood night.
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03:12:11JdGordonanyone want to guess why my ipod video partially works in my ipod radio dock thingy (only the play button actually), but my mini2g doesnt work at all?
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04:16:24manub686What is the support for AVRCP in rockbox?
04:20:38JdGordonwouldnt that require a target with bluetooth?
04:28:21manub686there are devices on the market that can provide a bluetooth transceiver
04:28:38manub686and claim to work transparently, once plugged into the, say, ipod dock connector
04:29:13manub686so i believe apple's firmware has some support for AVRCP through the docking port
04:30:04manub686that's precisely the bluetooth adapter i'm referring to
04:32:16courtcmanub686: Still, that is an adapter.. No bluetooth/avrcp support required in rockbox/ipodlinux.
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04:33:18manub686courtc: doesn't it require any firmware support to accept control commands on the port?
04:33:40courtcJust AAP support.
04:34:30manub686what is that?
04:34:48courtcApple Accessory Protocol
04:37:44manub686I see, that makes sense
04:38:00manub686but it still means that the firmware must talk AAP, right?
04:38:28JdGordonwhich we do partially support
04:39:25courtcAs does iPodLinux. (Question was asked there, too.)
04:39:34manub686:), yes it was
04:40:17manub686so, if i understand right, it is this adapter module that implements AVRCP
04:40:25manub686and also AAP
04:40:45manub686while the device (iPod) is unaware of AVRCP
04:41:29courtcRockbox probably has better support for AAP honestly, I don't remember implementing it in any audio clients. :/
04:42:28manub686I see
04:42:30manub686Do you know any open platform that I can use as the bluetooth adapter?
04:46:58courtcI don't. Also, your requirements are very vague.
04:49:30manub686I'm trying to read off information from the iPod wirelessly.
04:54:30manub686Ideally, I would like control of the AAP implementation on both ends
04:54:47manub686Rockbox will allow me on the iPod end.
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04:56:36charlotte2Hi, this is my first time here so be gentle, ok? :) I just have one question...
04:57:58charlotte2I just managed to load Rockbox on my Sansa c240. Can I expect to put in a 16gb microSDHC card, and expect it to play music from the entire card? Like, fill it with music, and have it shuffle?
04:58:36scorchewell, you would have to tell rockbox to play that mucis and to enable shuffle, but yes
04:58:43evilnick_homecharlotte2: Yes, the music on the card will show up in Files, and also in the Database
04:59:39charlotte2nick: do it put my music in the root dir of the card, or should I create a folder and put my files in there?
04:59:54scorchewhatever way you want
04:59:57evilnick_homeIt's up to you
05:00:35evilnick_homeMine is in folders within the root directory, like "Artist/Year - Album/Track# - Title"
05:00:39charlotte2I thought I read somewhere there was a limit as to how many files you could put in a folder or something. I want it to shuffle the entire contents. Can it do that?
05:00:53scorchethere is a limit, but you can change that
05:01:17scorcheand of course it can shuffle...if you havent read the manual, might i suggest you have a look at that?
05:01:23evilnick_homeIf you have all your files in one folder then you might have to change the limits per folder, which gives you slightly less memory, and slightly less battery times
05:02:09evilnick_homeBut it's certainly possible
05:02:16charlotte2I did read the manual, but I'm not very good at understanding tech writing... I do better to ask people... and no, it's not because I am to lazy to read the manual!
05:03:12evilnick_homecharlotte2: At the risk of sounding possibly a little smug; where can we specifically improve the manual?
05:03:22charlotte2maybe I should ask it this way... what the most efficient way to get it to shuffle through about 12gb of songs?
05:04:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:04:30charlotte2nick: I think the manual is fine, it's just that I am a newbie, and I didn't see my specific question addressed (and I didn't think it would be!)
05:04:45scorcheif it is all in one folder, just enable shuffle and click on something...if it is in multiple folders, make sure recursive adding is enabled, go into the context menu of the folder above it and click insert shuffled..
05:04:52evilnick_homeAdd all 12gb to the current playlist (hold select on the folder containing them > Insert) then make sure Shuffle is enabled. Or choose Insert Shuffled from the menu when you held Select on the containin folder.
05:06:12charlotte2ok, now that I know it's possible, I will buy the card! Didn't want to plunk down the money until I knew it was a least *possible*! :)
05:08:07charlotte2btw, will it take forever to load 4000 songs (about 12gb worth)?
05:08:35scorcheit will take a finite amount of time
05:08:38evilnick_home10-20 seconds?!
05:08:49evilnick_homeIt depends on the player though
05:09:08charlotte2the sansa c240?
05:09:46charlotte2(in MSC mode, I might add)
05:10:56evilnick_homeI don't have that one. But my e280 would typically take about 10 secs to add my ~8GB worth from either the card or the main memory (IIRC)
05:11:47charlotte2wow, that's faster than I thought!
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05:12:48charlotte2I should probably tell you I found Rockbox because the guy who sold me the c240 said it would take a 16gb card... which I found it wouldn't without using Rockbox, of course
05:13:10evilnick_homecharlotte2: Make sure to enable Directory Cache, that speeds things up. And it's generally a good idea to have your music organised in more folders than just one.
05:13:39evilnick_homeOnce you start using Rockbox and get used to how to do what you want to do, then you won't want to go back to the OF (Original Firmware)
05:15:04charlotte2Where do you enable Directory Cache?
05:15:36evilnick_homeHave a search for that term in the manual!
05:16:04evilnick_homeSettings > General > System > Disk I think
05:16:48charlotte2will do.... also, it may be just that I haven't found the correct tweaks or EQ settings yet, but I thought the OF *sounded* a little bit better... is that possible?
05:17:58scorchewell, it is possible, but not very likely...if you were to objectively measure the results and show me a difference, then i might be inclined to be believe you though...
05:18:22scorcheplacebo effect is too strong with audio..
05:18:38evilnick_homeI do know that Rockbox takes great pride in outputting the signal as accurately as possible so that the end user can then colour it via EQ or other effects. It might be that the OF deliberately adds extra bass (or whatever) as I know that some of the earlier iPods did this.
05:19:00evilnick_homeAnd also what scorche said
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05:19:35charlotte2interesting... well, thanks for helping a newbie! I really appreciate it!
05:19:53scorchecharlotte2: some people say that rockbox sounds better and others say that the OF sounds better...i tend to believe they are about the same unless something obvious is occuring or i see objective proof either way...
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05:20:53courtcYes, just do a "goodness of sound" test.
05:21:25charlotte2oh, one last thing... any tips about putting that 16gb microSDHC card into my c240 for the first time?
05:21:55courtcShove. Hard.
05:22:30courtcIn fact, use a hammer. Sledge preferably.
05:22:45evilnick_homecourtc: o_O
05:22:49scorchecourtc: well, there are RMAA tests, but this is getting a bit offtopic...
05:23:04evilnick_homecharlotte2: Make sure that it's formatted in FAT/FAT32 and you should be fine
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05:23:45charlotte2nick: does it already come that way? (see, I warned you I'm not technical!)
05:24:09evilnick_homeI assume that most will
05:24:34evilnick_homeI guess it might depend on the brand, though
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05:25:42courtcscorche: as always, I was being sarcastic. I'm sure there are adequate tests, but still "accurate" does not always mean that it sounds good. Something objective in that sense is slightly ridiculous sounding. (See what I did there?)
05:26:06 Quit brn2dth (Client Quit)
05:26:36scorchean RMAA test can show failings in frequency response, extra noise, etc, but yes there is no test for "sounds good"
05:27:51BHSPitMonkeycourtc: goodness-of-sound test would probably score low in rockbox. Linux is gooder, remember?
05:28:22charlotte2ok, I'm already back with a question... I have enabled Directory Cache twice now, and each time it says I need to re-boot for it to take effect, and each time I do and re-check, it is still set to "no"
05:28:45scorchecharlotte2: which method are you using to reboot?
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05:29:11charlotte2just holding the power button down till the machine turns off, then turning it back on
05:29:24scorchehow long are you holding it?
05:29:41charlotte2until the screen and light goes out
05:30:04courtcBHSPitMonkey: heh.
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05:30:31evilnick_homeAre other settings (like shuffle, volume) persistent?
05:32:15OverandDo you have to stick "database.ignore" into every subdirectory you want ignores as well?
05:32:22evilnick_homeWell, I wish I had one of those players here so I could follow the same steps you're going through, but at least in the short-term it won't make much difference until you get the card as there's only 4GB of space until then
05:32:50evilnick_homeOverand: No, but you *can* use database.unignore on subdirectories if you like. It defaults to not including them
05:33:56charlotte2actually, this is the c240 and it only has 1GB
05:35:20evilnick_homecharlotte2: Maybe you should post in the forums about directory cache not staying enabled, if no-one currently around here has the same player? It'd be nice to get this fixed so that you can make the most of the card :)
05:36:52charlotte2nick: I may try that. Although I only expect to load the card once, and then just let it shuffle its little heart out! Anyway, thanks again. If I have trouble, I'll probably be back!
05:37:50evilnick_homeCool, and we didn't even shout once.
05:38:23charlotte2LOL! True. I'll be braver next time! ;) G'nite!
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05:40:39OverandIt didn't seem to work for me- the database.ignore in my HVSC didn't prevent it from getting added
05:42:05evilnick_homeOverand: How are you creating that file?
05:42:41Overandevilnick_home: i've got the device mounted with vfat on my linux workstation, and i did 'touch database.ignore'
05:42:44Overandit's a 0 byte file
05:42:59OverandFAT32 filesystem on an Ipod 5th gen 60 gig running rockbox 3.3 release I believe
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05:44:42evilnick_homeDid you restart before scanning the database?
05:44:52evilnick_homeSorry, reboot
05:45:06Overandevilnick_home: the file existed before i initialized the database
05:45:15Overandbefore i booted the device, etc
05:45:24OverandBut - let me try wiping out the DB
05:45:36evilnick_homeTry Initialize Database
05:45:56OverandThat's what I did - but I think there may have been an old database from a while ago
05:46:14OverandACtually - the device is mounted on my workstation right now, can I delete the database manually?
05:47:24evilnick_homeYeah, delete the database files in .rockbox I think they're all *.tcd or similar
05:48:20OverandGod I love this software
05:49:14Overandyeah, i;m up to 34,000 entries
05:50:57OverandIt looks like it *scanned* the files, but didn't add them
05:52:07OverandSo, that works 'not quite as expected, but well enough'
05:52:53evilnick_homeI'm not too familiar with the database, but as long as it's done what you wanted in the end, then all's well that ends well!
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05:53:14OverandI'm never quiet sure if I want to use that or the file browser
05:54:41OverandHmm. Also, I'm never quite sure what the right way to name these directories is.
05:56:13OverandEck. The way my linux system does international characters vs. the way rockbox reads them is not even close.
05:56:26OverandLooks like one does unicode and the other doesn't
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05:58:59safetydanOverand: Rockbox supports unicode, but I believe there's some quirks with the FAT filesystem and Linux
06:00:09Overandsafetydan: That's not surprising in the last.
06:00:25OverandI'm just not sure what the 'right' way to do this is.
06:00:29safetydanI can't remember if you need to mount vfat with iocharset to utf-8 or not
06:00:31OverandOr even how fat32 is 'supposed' to do it
06:00:35Overandsafetydan: interesting...
06:01:04OverandI'll try a few options
06:02:07Overandsafetydan: that's *exactly* what I needed.
06:02:09OverandTHANK you.
06:03:12safetydanOverand: cool. So you needed the iocharset=utf-8?
06:03:21OverandThat got it in line with how rockbox is reading it
06:03:29OverandApparently the default is something entirely different
06:03:47OverandI should get a line in my fstab for this
06:15:54OverandPerfect - fstab line with a UUID and all the options
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06:33:56CIA-6New commit by kkurbjun (r22060): Sudoku: Add support for 640xx480 screens.
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07:08:30CIA-6New commit by kkurbjun (r22061): Reversi: Simplify screen sizing - now supports any resolution.
07:12:17pixelmaJdGordon: I'm not sure if the IAP has been tested much on the Minis
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07:52:27pixelmakkurbjun: now the Reversi cells on the Archos screens won't be square anymore (this display has rectangular pixels where the width of each pixel is 80% of its height)
07:52:53pixelmacan this be reimplemented somehow with the new logic?
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07:55:05pixelma6 is not exactly 80% of 8 but it's quite close and looks better
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08:02:11iwonderi don't see a way to set the sensitivity of the scroll wheel for the iPod?
08:04:52iwonderi thought "Scroll Step Size" would change it, but nope
08:05:19iwonderis it supposed to?
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08:09:35JdGordonis there anything in the manual to suggest that is configurable?
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08:31:57JdGordonZagor: I dunno if this is a new issue or not, but depgen is broken when you change a files #includes.... can the deps for a single file be redone when its changed?
08:33:23iwonderyou cannot configure the scrolling sensitivity?
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08:48:27*n1s votes and feels like a good citizen :)
08:50:14JdGordondid you send the vote to the wrong person? or is it just slow?
08:51:06iwonderJdGordon, do you have an ipod?
08:51:27JdGordon3 in vairuous levels of workingness
08:51:36iwonderhow so?
08:52:13iwonderwhat player do you use the most?
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08:52:40JdGordon#rockbox-community for social talk
08:53:17iwonderso it means to piss off? :)
08:53:22iwonderyou cannot be bothered now
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09:04:46n1sJdGordon: still nothing?
09:05:05JdGordoni hope i didnt typo in the email
09:05:13JdGordonfuck, I did
09:05:49*JdGordon is a doofus :p
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09:05:52n1smissing d?
09:06:12n1sok i'll try again then
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09:21:09CIA-6New commit by jdgordon (r22062): Start of some apps/ and wps cleanup work... Move everything related to the actual drawing of the wps into apps/gui/wps_engine, things related to the ...
09:21:16JdGordonexpect red/yellow ...
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09:26:54JdGordonoh crud... forgot about the wps tester app thingy...
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09:34:53CIA-6New commit by jdgordon (r22063): hopefully fix the wpseditor... I cant get it to compile on a pre r22062 tree so dunno if this is enough to get it going again
09:42:32linuxstbbertrik: Have you done much work on getting the main Rockbox build working on the Meizu?
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09:43:31linuxstbperfect ;)
09:44:50*n1s wonders what "music_screen" is
09:45:16*linuxstb had the same question typed...
09:48:50linuxstbJdGordon: "wps_screen" ? "playback_screen" ?
09:49:19JdGordonplayback screen could work
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09:54:58iwonderis there a way to set the time of Power/Select buttons to switch back to Rockbox firmware?
09:55:35iwonderit takes about 8 seconds of holding down these buttons to switch!
09:55:44iwonderit should be at most half that
09:56:10iwonderi at first thought something was wrong and i would have to reinstall rockbox
09:56:22iwonder8 seconds is *unreasonable*, 4 seconds isn't
09:56:31scorcheiwonder: no
09:56:36scorchetalk to apple...
09:57:18iwonderok, so it's apple's code
09:57:27iwonderi wonder why they thought that
09:57:54scorcheof course it is their is in their firmware...
09:58:09iwonderi'd like to send a thought to the the person/s who thought 8 seconds was a good number to change it
09:59:25iwonderok, so what about the ipod's mouse wheel sensitivity.. it moves with the slightest of finger movement, and jumps around when i hit select, selecting the one up or down 1 to the option i intended
09:59:49iwonderit is.. a bit annoying
10:00:07scorchethen dont put your whole finger on select and instead press it with your tip...
10:01:42iwonderbut this code could be done in rockbox?
10:01:51iwonderi mean, it's technically feasible, right?
10:02:10scorcherockbox isnt going to prevent you from pushing other things at the same time as the select button, no
10:02:51iwonderdon't disguise my intention and try to turn the fault on me
10:03:14iwonderit just could be done better
10:03:19scorchethen stop pressing other things at the same time as the select button..
10:03:49scorcheit could be, perhaps, but hardware design ended a while ago..
10:04:05iwonderi wonder why they didn't think of that
10:04:22iwonderthat one is glaringly obvious that the mouse wheel is too sensitive
10:04:31iwonderfor many people, i'm sure
10:04:36iwonderi'm not unnormal in my finger strokes
10:04:43iwonderjust an average joe
10:04:48iwonder's fingers :)
10:05:40iwonderit just means i have to be more attentive & delicate to selecting,
10:05:44iwondera nuisance i could do without
10:06:22iwonderit's kind of like your computer mouse sometimes moving a little to the left or right to miss the button you intended to click on
10:07:04iwondernow, you could slow down your mouse movement to make sure it doesn't do this, but the more you rely on fast speed movements to get repetive things done, the more this is going to tend to annoy you
10:08:05iwonderor, even more critical perhaps, having your car's steering wheel move too far left or right when you intend to make a average right or left
10:08:09iwonderleaving you in the ditch
10:08:18iwonderor even worse, dead
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10:10:03iwonderand having to *always* be attentive to this sensitivity whenever you are using it (where ordinarily you never would & could put much more attention on the things that matter more) increases the annoyance level by that degree
10:10:46iwonderespecially in complex tasks that require your attention elsewhere, but instead have to put more attention on subconscious actions that *should* be trivial
10:11:01iwonderand you just want tthe fu*ker to *work*
10:11:08iwonder(if you know what I mean :)
10:12:00iwonderto do the job it was meant for
10:12:08*iwonder sighs :Oo
10:12:29iwonder.rant done. :)
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10:14:58n1siwonder: patches are welcome but keep in mind these UI things tend to become neverending discussions where everyone thinks their preference is the best
10:15:20iwonder..and if it's annoying enough to happen to great enough frequency, and you are already heavily stressed from complex demands on you, you might just do something very nasty or smash it on the ground a few dozen times :)
10:15:55rasherIpod hardware design flaws are not on topic for this channel.
10:15:58iwonder..hurting the innocent, while the annoyance never ceases
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10:17:55iwonderthis is something doable in software, as others have noted here
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10:18:27iwondern1s, thanks
10:18:35iwonderthat reply was certainly helpful
10:18:47iwonderi'm sure you understand my intention clearly
10:19:06iwonderand have been annoyed similarly with the iPod's mouse wheel
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10:20:54scorcheno one else has said or even "noted" that this is "doable" in software...if you are referring to n1s, he simply mentioned that patches are welcome...not necessarily that it would do anything
10:21:49dannyHello, im newly registered twiki contibutor. Is there anyone that can give me write permission to twiki?
10:22:04iwonderi learned something again here - twice: don't waste my breath
10:22:07linuxstbiwonder: You must have abnormal fingers, as no-one else has complained. When the current version of the clickwheel (where's the mouse?) driver was being developed, there were some settings to control it, but that was removed as no-one thought it was needed. See for the development discussion.
10:22:58iwonderactually "waste of time" is a bit more accurate
10:23:11scorchedanny: sure...could i please have your wikiname?...also, out of curiousity, what were you intending to modify?
10:23:16iwonderthat and loss of energy & attention on things i can do to *tangibly* benefit my life & others
10:23:21iwonderanyway. enough.
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10:25:29BdN3504i am writing a small part for the manual right now and have some minor difficulties. i have a \note{} section under a paragraph. i created a newline before it so it's paragraph, one free line and then the note
10:25:39dannyMy name is DanielKluz. ah yes. Im gonna modify useful tools. One RB expert suggested me to do this :)
10:25:45BdN3504but when i compile, the note comes directly after the text
10:25:58BdN3504is there a tag i can force a new line with?
10:26:43scorchedanny: go forth and spam not! ;)
10:27:29BdN3504what could be the problem?
10:28:36dannyEhm, what about permission?
10:29:21scorchedanny: as in, you should be able to edit now..
10:30:34dannyOh thanks a lot. no more spam... ya ya
10:33:00BdN3504please, somebody help... how do i force a new line in the manual? i'm looking for something like <br> in html, is there any equivalent? cr doesn't do anything
10:35:19linuxstbBdN3504: You have a completely empty line between the paragraph and the note?
10:35:55BdN3504or wait, let me check if there's a space in there
10:36:51BdN3504double checked, it's completely empty
10:38:21BdN3504can i post a link and you have a look at it?
10:38:55linuxstbYes, post a link, but I can't help. Maybe other can, but be patient, not everyone is always in front of IRC.
10:39:35linuxstbBut if I was you, I would look for similar code in the manual, and look for what makes your code different.
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10:45:55BdN3504already done that, unfortunaltey i can't find any evidence to what is different.
10:51:44linuxstbBdN3504: Something must be different. You could try duplicating an existing plugin's description (not changing anything), and see if that works. Then change things slowly...
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10:55:37mcuelenaeremt: have you seen ?
10:58:14mtmcuelenaere: For files with rm/ra extension we assume it's cook. The parser then checks for the codec, if it's cook then the assumption was correct otherwise the codec is set to the correct value.
10:58:44mtmcuelenaere: It works fine on my e250.
10:58:54mcuelenaeremt: try putting a .rmvb file on it
11:00:18mtmcuelenaere: Currently, it doesn't handle rmvb files.
11:00:38mcuelenaeremt: I know, but it shouldn't crash when those are present :)
11:00:53mcuelenaereIf you have either tagcache on or view the properties of the file, it crashes
11:01:47mtOh, I see. Will work on that.
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11:02:54mtShould the codec play audio streams in video files ?
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11:03:45linuxstbmt: It could be nice, if it's possible to do easily. I think the mp4 (aac) codec can do that, but just by accident (it was never intended as far as I know).
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11:05:04mtlinuxstb: I will see if this could be done then, and work on handling .rmvb files, before working on a new codec.
11:05:30linuxstbWhat are rmvb files?
11:08:27mtlinuxstb: for variable bitrate content :
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11:11:14linuxstbmt: That article seems to be saying there are no open source implementations. Plus it also seems to be only used for videos?
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11:14:17mtlinuxstb: Yes, I have never seen them for audio only. Anyway, I wasn't talking about playing them .. but /me thinks again :)
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11:19:10linuxstbmcuelenaere: Rockbox doesn't just ignore .rmvb files, as the extension is unknown? Or the problem is that NULL list of extensions (meaning it will crash on any unknown extension)?
11:19:48mcuelenaerelinuxstb: yes, probably. I only tested it with .rmvb extensions though
11:20:34linuxstbI've no idea how that code works though - it seems that extensions aren't duplicated across files (e.g. speex can be in .ogg, but it's not specified there).
11:20:57linuxstbSimilarly, alac can be in mp4, and aac can be m4a/m4b...
11:22:50mcuelenaerebut can the Rockbox metadata parsers handle that?
11:23:08linuxstbHandle what?
11:23:09mtmcuelenaere: How did you test it with rmvb extensions ? (did you add rmvb to cook's ext list or something like that?)
11:23:32mcuelenaereno, I just had a rmvb file on my player and tagcache is on by default; so it crashed on startup
11:23:41mcuelenaereit has the same behaviour when viewing the properties of the file
11:24:41mtmcuelenaere: Mine didn't crash when viewing the properties of an rmvb file.
11:25:21*mcuelenaere compiles an e200 sim
11:25:33linuxstbmt: Are you using a sim, or a real target?
11:25:41mtlinuxstb: real target.
11:25:44mcuelenaereit should crash on both, it tries to access address 0
11:26:08linuxstbAccessing address 0 shouldn't be a problem on ARM targets - there's always memory there.
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11:26:26mcuelenaereah but it's a bug though
11:26:38mcuelenaeremt: try a sim then
11:26:45linuxstbmcuelenaere: Oh yes, it's definitely a bug.
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11:28:02mcuelenaerehuh? I can't get it to crash on a e200 sim?
11:28:23mcuelenaereoh wait, I patched my local tree :)
11:29:07linuxstbmcuelenaere: And yes, I think adding the Cook list of extensions to RAAC is the right fix.
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11:29:58mcuelenaereI'm not sure how that infrastructure works, but couldn't that list contain only the parsers which then provide the right codecs?
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11:33:20mtmcuelenaere: The codec is determined according to the file's extension, then the corresponding metadata parser is called, if that's what you're asking ?
11:34:41linuxstbWell, the metadata parsers are related to containers, not codecs. But they are called, based on the (at first, guessed) codec. It's not perfectly logical, but works fine.
11:35:19mcuelenaeremt: yeah sure, but now audio_formats[AFMT_NUM_CODECS] is going to contain two lines for one type of files (rm/ra)
11:35:26mcuelenaeretwo entries*
11:37:00linuxstbmt: I think you should add a "case AFMT_RAAC:" next to the "case AFMT_COOK:" in get_metadata(). I'm not sure if it's actually needed, but it may be.
11:37:02mtlinuxstb: That's what I meant :)
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11:37:40*mcuelenaere also just spotted that :)
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11:38:26mtHow's that related to the rmvb problem ?
11:38:31linuxstbmcuelenaere: The AFMT variable is used to load the codec (i.e. the .codec file), so needs to be specific. Whilst an explicit container abstraction may be nice, I don't think it's needed.
11:40:11linuxstbmt: The problem is that you have a NULL list of filetypes, which isn't expected. So probe_file_format() dereferences that NULL pointer, causing problems in the sim (and I expect some targets, but not ARM).
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11:40:48linuxstbmt: Also, maybe something like "AFMT_RM_COOK" and "AFMT_RM_AAC" would be clearer?
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11:43:07mtlinuxstb: Sure.
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11:49:24mtlinuxstb: Isn't probe_file_format() called only once when a file is opened ?
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11:53:02Jaykaylinuxstb: would a client in a vmware-image be useful for the build system?
11:53:13Jaykayi guess it's slower than "real" clients...
11:55:17n1sJaykay: well, it depends on how fast it is even if it's slower than a native client would be on the same machine it could well be faster than other clients
11:57:18Jaykaynow i have a q6600 (4x2,4ghz) and soon i will have a X$ 955 (4x3,2ghz)
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11:57:55Jaykayi don't now how much vmware slows this down
11:59:51mtmcuelenaere: Which target sim did it crash on ?
12:00:14linuxstbmt: I would guess it would crash on any sim.
12:01:08n1sJaykay: i think that would still be faster than several of the current clients
12:01:31Jaykayok, i'll try to get the image working again
12:15:28mcuelenaeremt: Onda VX747 (target & sim), but it should crash on all sims
12:16:37mtYes, just tested on a iaudio x5.
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12:28:09mtmcuelenaere: I still can't see how is this related to raac having null ext list. Rockbox would crash on viewing the properties of any unsupported file type.
12:28:55mcuelenaereno it doesn't? If you change the NULL pointer to a string it stops crashing
12:29:32mtmcuelenaere: I just tested on a fake empty file and it crashed.
12:29:50mcuelenaeremt: what's it named?
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12:30:11mtmcuelenaere: It's just a text file I created with a made-up extension.
12:30:14linuxstbmt: Have you tried the suggested fix?
12:32:09mcuelenaeremt: it doesn't crash here.. (filename = blah.bleh)
12:32:58mtmcuelenaere: yes yes, my mistake. :) (just figured when it does actually tried to dereference this null pointer)
12:33:16mcuelenaeretry running gdb ./rockboxui ;)
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12:41:03mtJust tried playing a rmvb file and it worked. (It's audio only though, I'll see what happens with files with video streams)
12:41:56mcuelenaerecool :)
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12:54:43kugelhrm. mot sure if i like the new naming scheme of wps&music screen
12:56:18linuxstbkugel: No, "music screen" is a terrible name... JdGordon's been told though.
12:57:28kugelnot only that
12:58:57linuxstbWhat else?
12:59:10kugelit seems we now call the internal stuff "wps", and the screen that uses this internal stuff not anymore. that's contrary to what we do in the manual and here
13:02:54linuxstbI'm not sure what you mean, isn't the problem just the fact that the WPS is now in a file called music_screen ?
13:03:39kugelThat's what I meant, yes
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13:05:19linuxstbOK, then I think we all agree...
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13:08:21kugelbut I think playback_screen.c isn't any better. I think music_screen.c should be wps.c, and the stuff in wps/ (and wps/ itself) should be renamed to something that doesn't imply it's bound to out good-old "while playling screen"
13:10:26linuxstbSuch as?
13:11:23linuxstbI think everyone would agree with that, but when it was discussed (only briefly though), no-one came up with any ideas.
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13:17:38kugelyea, I'm lacking an idea also :p
13:20:41kugelcgui, maybe? for configurable gui which is what the wps is (and a possible while radio screen also)
13:28:17CIA-6New commit by mt (r22064): Fix compilation of the standalone test program.
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13:36:29CIA-6New commit by mt (r22065): Fix a bug spotted by Maurus Cuelenaere; rockbox crashed on viewing the porperties of files with unsupported extensions due to the null ext list in ...
13:41:26linuxstbmt: What do you think about using AFMT_RM_COOK and AFMT_RM_AAC instead of AFMT_COOK and AFMT_RAAC?
13:43:11mcuelenaeremt: is cook able to handle multichannel files?
13:44:46linuxstbmcuelenaere: Yes, but IIRC, there's one such sample in existence (according to the ffmpeg devs), and the Rockbox cook decoder doesn't support it.
13:45:13mcuelenaerelinuxstb: you mean multichannel.rmvb ?
13:45:25linuxstbI mean multichannel cook.
13:47:17mcuelenaereyes, but you said according to ffmpeg there's only one such sample; do they mean ?
13:47:42mcuelenaere(as that's the one I'm trying)
13:47:43linuxstbI guess so. But from mt's commit, it seems rmvb == rm (for audio-only files at least).
13:48:04mtlinuxstb: I like this naming scheme , since I really hated referring to a file format as cook. :)
13:48:12mtWorking on that now.
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13:49:12mcuelenaereI'm getting a 'FAAD: decode error 'Maximum number of scalefactor bands exceeded'' error when trying a random rmvb downloaded from the net; I suppose that's the AAC codec complaining?
13:50:13linuxstbmt: AAC and ALAC could possibly be changed to AFMT_MP4_AAC and AFMT_MP4_ALAC at the same time...
13:50:29mtmcuelenaere: Yes, could you send me a link to this sample ?
13:51:13mcuelenaeremt: it's a RS one, I can upload it somewhere else if you want to.
13:51:57mtmcuelenaere: This file has video streams in it ?
13:52:19mcuelenaereoh does it only work with audio streams in it?
13:52:33mcuelenaerewith only audio streams in it*
13:52:40mtYes. :)
13:52:46mcuelenaereok my bad :)
13:53:21mtlinuxstb: Sure.
14:05:22linuxstbmt: BTW, the "cook" and "aac" in "enum codecs{cook, aac};" in librm/rm.h should be in upper-case - see docs/CONTRIBUTING
14:05:54mtOops, missed that.
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14:07:02linuxstbmt: I would probably also add a prefix to them - something like CODEC_AAC and CODEC_COOK
14:07:47kugellinuxstb: what do you think of the "cgui" idea?
14:09:03linuxstbkugel: Sorry, I don't like it... "gui" is more generic than just what's being displayed in the WPS.
14:09:16linuxstbAnd it's not always graphical...
14:10:13kugelit's not always graphical?
14:10:54kugelstupid charcell
14:12:01kugeliirc even charcell has a progressbar
14:12:18linuxstbBut anyway, my main point is that "gui" is a very generic term.
14:13:03kugelhence the c prefix
14:13:24kugelwe are already in the gui folder, i.e. it would be apps/gui/cgui
14:13:26CIA-6New commit by mt (r22066): Change the naming scheme for codecs found in different containers. ...
14:14:53kugelyou basically seem to be questioning the parent folder
14:15:45dionoeajust call it "information display engine" or such a generic name. That way everything fits :)
14:17:03dionoeaof course that wouldn't work if wps are able to define buttons or such things in the future (since it implies a one way information transfer)
14:18:18*linuxstb thinks there is no rush, so we should give people time to come up with ideas
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14:19:43kugelonce things are set they hardly change
14:20:07kugeland only giving a thing time makes people think they're set
14:21:24mcuelenaeredionoea: that's already (partly) possible on touchscreen targets; you can assign actions to certain areas
14:21:42kugelI mean, if we don't change it now, and we give people just a week or two, I doub it'll change ever
14:21:56dionoeaoh, neat :) And the wps defines actions like play/pause/skip/... ?
14:23:15dionoeain terms of what other applications call it it would be "skin engine", but that doesn't to fit well in the rockbox framework (since you can modify the appearance of stuff other than the wps)
14:23:30linuxstbkugel: If it doesn't change, then it's because people don't think it's important. In which case, it isn't...
14:23:50mcuelenaeredionoea: yep, something like that :) see for more details
14:23:52kugelI think it's important
14:24:21linuxstbkugel: Then I'm sure you'll make sure it's not forgotten - so what's the problem?
14:26:40kugelmaking sure it's not forgotten is easy, coming up with an idea that overcomes picky-ness isn't so
14:27:36aaron424linuxstb: someone said to ask you how to boot to the OF on a m200 v4
14:28:01kugeldionoea: in this particular case it's only about the underlying stuff of the configurability of the wps (it's been split up to allow for other screens like the radio to hook into that underlying stuff)
14:28:13kugelskin engine works, imo
14:28:32linuxstbYes, skin is good.
14:29:08CIA-6New commit by mt (r22067): Change enum codecs in apps/codecs/librm/rm.h to follow the coding guidelines.
14:32:55linuxstbaaron424: Sorry, I have no idea, apart from reading the source code in dualboot.S
14:33:53aaron424linuxstb: someone said you wrote the bootloader. I guess not. Do you know who it was? (funman comes to mind)
14:34:38linuxstbI worked on it yes, and so did funman. But I don't have an m200v4, and I don't think funman does either.
14:34:59mcuelenaereJdGordon: what's the difference between wps_engine/gwps.h and wps_engine/wps_internals.h ?
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14:42:19kugelaaron424: domonoky has a m200v4, IIRC bootling the OF was to flip hold
14:42:45aaron424after pressing power?
14:43:01aaron424otherwise it just says system lock, shutdown
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14:43:31kugellet me look at the code
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14:44:18kugelaaron424: try the left button
14:47:56aaron424kugel: that does not work
14:48:19aaron424it doesn't even display anything, or say that it can't find the OF file
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14:50:22aaron424perhaps I am not timing it right, the boot sequence is really fast
14:51:12kugelholding |<< before turning on should work
14:51:22GrahackHi, is there a diagram showing rockbox devs activity (commits)? I'd like to show a friend how much active this project is.
14:52:07kugelaaron424: how old is your bootloader?
14:52:23kugelGrahack: try
14:52:28aaron424kugel: I found some text. It says something about the version, the checksum and then says loading rockbox.sansa
14:55:32kugelaaron424: damnit, I had the m200v4 in my hands at the devcon and did some dualboot, but I just can't remember the combo :(
14:55:49kugelor rather, the key
15:02:51linuxstbGrahack: Not a picture, but it gets the point across -
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15:05:15aaron424kugel: two weeks old, installed it on the 12th
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15:07:58Grahackmmf, it seems that ohloh only displays commits by registered devs, but it's better than nothing. BTW, there is no 3.3 announcement.
15:08:24Grahackkugel and linuxstb: thanks for your answers
15:09:00teruI'd like to commit FS #10187. shoud i add BdN3504's name to docs/CREDITS or is he already added?
15:12:00LambdaCalculus37teru: Check docs/CREDITS and see if he's there already (IIRC his name is David Kaufmann).
15:12:37linuxstbteru: I am not sure about that plugin - because it isn't perfect, it may cause more problems than it solves. For example, will it delete fonts from ?
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15:13:56teruLambdaCalculus37: ah thanks. he doesn't seem to be there..
15:15:14terulinuxstb: it will delete those. one solution would be adding dummy config to somewhere.
15:21:39linuxstbteru: Are there any other problems you are aware of? The manual entry says "The changes done to the files could break another theme.", which isn't good.
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15:24:55kkurbjunpixelma, I knew that the archos devices would end up with slightly different calculations, but I think that a generic calculation is far better in terms of maintainability than hard coded values for every screen supported
15:26:07kkurbjunthe problem is that there is nothing that allows us to infer that the individual pixels are a different height/width
15:26:54domonokyaaron424, kugel: booting the OF on m200v4 is "hold left" while booting. the hold switch is needed if you want to force it into MSC Mode.
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15:27:21domonokyso best put in on hold, and press and hold "left" then use menu to turn it on.
15:27:41CIA-6New commit by mcuelenaere (r22068): Touchscreen targets: add basic progress bar & volume handling
15:28:23mcuelenaeredomonoky: have you seen FS #10456 ?
15:28:40aaron424domonoky: the menu button does not turn it on when the left button is held
15:29:32domonokymcuelenaere: i have seen it, but didnt look at the code till now. ( me was in holidays)
15:30:57mcuelenaeredomonoky: ok, if you have some time could you take a look at it? I'm not sure whether my approach of showing messages from chinachip.c to main RBUtility is fully correct
15:31:09domonokyaaron424: works for me, you have to hold menu for a few seconds.
15:34:10aaron424so turn on the hold switch, press left and hold menu for a few seconds?
15:34:21terulinuxstb: one thing i aware of is about removing default theme.
15:34:40teruif someone tried to remove cabbiev2 while using the theme, option "Remove if not used" won't work as those default settings are not stored config.cfg.
15:34:53linuxstbteru: Why is that a problem? Isn't there a cabbiev2.cfg file?
15:35:13linuxstbAh, I see.
15:35:23domonokyaaron424: yes, at least that works for me.
15:35:51linuxstbteru: I think you could read that information from the global_settings struct.
15:36:08aaron424domonoky: now after holding a few seconds, the OF "locked" screen comes up. If I let go of any of the buttons it shuts down again.d
15:37:08domonokymcuelenaere: looks fine. a few remarks: you should connect the downloadDone() signal before you start the downloading, and converting the QStrings in the patching call is better be done with ".toLocal8Bit()".
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15:38:33linuxstbdomonoky: People have been asking about 7zip support in rbutil. Do you know how much work that would be (for changing the main Rockbox zip files to .7z)
15:38:36domonokyaaron424: same for me, maybe that depends on the OF version :-)
15:38:52aaron424so just plug it in right then?
15:40:35domonokyah, yes. instead of menu, plug-in the usb cable, then you get MSC mode
15:40:50mcuelenaeredomonoky: when running chinachip_patch(), the messages that get passed to the info() & err() calls don't show up till after the chinachip_patch() call returns; doesn't installStage2() run in another thread?
15:41:35domonokylinuxstb: shouldnt be too hard, we just need to include a 7zip lib instead of zlib.
15:43:46domonokymcuelenaere: no, you need to call QCoreApplication::processEvents(); after emiting the logitem
15:44:00Unhelpfullinuxstb: uploading 7z files would speed uploads slightly, too. i believe a week or so ago the possibility was discussed of uploading 7z and converting to zip on the server.
15:44:23linuxstbdomonoky: Are you interested in doing it?
15:44:34mcuelenaereah yes, that fixes it :)
15:45:53domonokylinuxstb: not really, i am missing time for that.
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16:19:52webguest31ChanServ: Rockbox 3.3 supports aac playback on iPod, right? Because when I try to play .m4a files it just skips them. Any ideas?
16:20:27evilnickwebguest31: Which model iPod?
16:20:44 Quit mt (Connection timed out)
16:21:29webguest315.5 Gen, I think. The last one out before Classic, 80 GB hard drive.
16:21:52Torneare they very very long, by any chance?
16:22:17webguest31No. Just normal songs.
16:22:21Torneshould work, then
16:22:30Tornevery very long aac files don't work
16:22:46LambdaCalculus37webguest31: How were they encoded?
16:23:53webguest31How should I check? "file" gives the following: 01 Prologue.m4a: ISO Media, MPEG v4 system, version 2
16:24:51webguest31mplayer says this while trying to play:
16:24:53webguest31Forced audio codec: madOpening audio decoder: [faad] AAC (MPEG2/4 Advanced Audio Coding)AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 124.8 kbit/8.84% (ratio: 15595->176400)Selected audio codec: [faad] afm: faad (FAAD AAC (MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio) decoder)
16:25:02webguest31Gah... line breaks...
16:25:11webguest31Forced audio codec: mad
16:25:18webguest31Opening audio decoder: [faad] AAC (MPEG2/4 Advanced Audio Coding)
16:25:24webguest31AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 124.8 kbit/8.84% (ratio: 15595->176400)
16:25:27linuxstbIt's OK, we can work that out...
16:25:29webguest31Selected audio codec: [faad] afm: faad (FAAD AAC (MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio) decoder)
16:27:09linuxstbRockbox only supports mp4 files "optimised for streaming" (i.e. with the metadata at the start, not the end). I don't know how to test for that though, or fix it...
16:29:35webguest31The manual makes no mention of this caveat here (as far as I can see).
16:30:11webguest31Should that be mentioned somewhere or fixed?
16:31:13Tornefixing it is a known problem which also ties into the inability to play very long m4a's
16:31:28Torneit might be good to document it but only if we can suggest some useful way to check/fix such files
16:31:38Tornethe vast majority of m4a's do work, afaik
16:31:57Torneevery single one i've ever tried does, other than audiobooks that may be a couple dozen hours long :)
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16:33:48linuxstbwebguest31: There is a little info here - (and I expect in other forum threads if you search)
16:34:00linuxstb(and yes, it really is a 2.5 year old problem...)
16:34:46linuxstbOr here -
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16:37:56webguest31ChanServ: Thank you very much.
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16:49:11WizzupI am trying to install Rockbox on my iPod Mini 2nd Gen, Ubuntu 9.04, and I am running the install utility as root. It still tells me it can't open the iPod. I set the correct path, and mounted correctly
16:49:18WizzupWhat could be wrong?
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16:50:33Wizzup <−− That is the output
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16:51:42WizzupI used the browse option, and it works now.
16:51:49WizzupBut just filling in a path did not work, somehow?
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16:55:18LambdaCalculus37Wizzup: What is the mount point of your iPod?
16:55:48martian67Wizzup, if you are confident, installing manually is not too hard
16:56:21*martian67 hasnt updated his bootloader for a good two years, and is unsure if a good guide still exists :/
16:56:44LambdaCalculus37martian67: Shame on you! :)
16:56:47linuxstbmartian67: The "manual" instructions should still be in the Rockbox manual.
16:56:57WizzupI succeeded by using the browser rather than typing my own path. The mount point etc was fine :)
16:57:00martian67LambdaCalculus37, what? am i missing something :D?
16:57:29LambdaCalculus37martian67: Probably plenty of updates, for one. :)
16:57:39martian67LambdaCalculus37, ive updated rockbox itself lots
16:57:51martian67im wondering if im missing anything worthwhile from the bootloader
16:57:53linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: That depends what device martian67 has - lots of bootloaders haven't changed in that time...
16:57:59martian67seems it would be a pretty static thing to me
16:58:32martian67i mean not a lot of room for change in a bootloader ;)
16:59:19dionoeathere were dual core related changes in the ipod bootload a few years ago if I remember correctly
16:59:27linuxstbmartian67: What device are you using Rockbox on?
16:59:38martian67ipod 5.5
16:59:56martian67my bootloader is from when rockbox was still "unoffical" on that target
17:00:40linuxstbIf it works, then there's no real reason to change. But I think it got prettier during the last release (October 2008).
17:01:29linuxstb(it matches the cabbiev2 theme, and also shows a logo instead of text unless there is an error)
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17:24:15JdGordonmcuelenaere: gwps.h might be removable... its veyr possible i forgot to rm it
17:24:49mcuelenaerewhen diff'ing it against wps-internals.h, there are not much differences
17:25:47JdGordongwps.h I tihnk is removed everywhere so it could be deleted
17:26:04*mcuelenaere leaves that to JdGordon
17:26:29JdGordonkugel: the engine needs to be named small... wps works.. I'm not against the name playback_screen for the actual screen, thats fine being reaosnably long because its barely used
17:26:33JdGordoncgui just looks odd
17:26:53mcuelenaereskin engine -> se
17:27:06mcuelenaere(or screen skin engine -> sse?)
17:27:38JdGordonwell... to be honest, wps is just as obscure as that, but everyone knows that acronym already
17:27:47JdGordonwhats this new touchscreen commit you did?
17:28:55JdGordonohh... diff looks nice :)
17:29:41mcuelenaereit adds seeking and volume changing capability
17:29:58*mcuelenaere isn't sure whether seeking is done properly though
17:31:06JdGordonit doesnt look obviously wrong :)
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17:47:36CIA-6New commit by jdgordon (r22069): this file isnt used anymore and should have been removed with the rest of the cleanup
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17:57:34HillshumIn setting up this ppc machine to be a build client, how should I add powerpc to
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17:58:36JdGordonunless its changed recently, I dont tihnk that is actually used for anything yet
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17:59:53bertriklinuxstb, hi I noticed your question
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18:00:40HillshumJdGordon: I think it changes the bits? i.e. if amd64, bits = 64,
18:01:28JdGordon2 seperate values
18:01:39bertriklinuxstb, I had to create an .lds file and some stubs for audiohw and usb IIRC, I'll have a close look now
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18:02:02JdGordonah, so it does
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18:02:46linuxstbbertrik: I tried it last night (also creating a lot of stubs, and an, and got Rockbox booting to some degree. It's not making it's way through all the inits though.
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18:03:26linuxstbbertrik: I guess we should compare patches (but I'm busy at the moment, and my tree is a mess...)
18:03:34bertriklinuxstb, oh then you're already further than I am, because I never actually ran a real rockbox
18:03:48linuxstbI have it easier, as the Nano already has keymaps...
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18:04:56linuxstbbertrik: I've also sort of got the timer interrupt working. TheSeven deduced that timer B is generating a "timer A" interrupt...
18:04:57bertrikmine's a mess too because I was experimenting with USB and then polluted it even more with samsung yp-s3 stuff
18:05:12linuxstbI guess people will recommend git to us...
18:05:13bertrikoh great ...
18:05:38bertrikthe text in the datasheet suggests some last minute changes in the documentation about the timers
18:05:40 Join TheSeven [0] (
18:06:27bertrikfor example it says something like: there are *two* timers, timer A, timer B, timer C and timer D :) Also the pin assignment of the timers is inconsistent
18:06:39JdGordonlinuxstb: screw git.. just have 5 copies of the svn tree in your ~
18:06:54CIA-6New commit by mcuelenaere (r22070): Lua: implement the ^ and % operators
18:06:57linuxstbJdGordon: I already do, from old abandoned work... I need more ;)
18:07:55bertrikI've been thinking about some kind of common timer code, because we can't fix the assignment of timers when each targets uses the timers differently
18:08:26bertrikthe yp-s3 uses timer A for PWM backlight, the meizus use timer C for PWM backlight, the nano2g uses timer D for the piezo
18:08:29HillshumOkay, so, do I just add 'ppc' to the bit in that has the rest of the 32-bit cpus?
18:09:18bertrikand for rockbox we need at least two timers as far as I understand: the kernel timer and a generic timer
18:09:47linuxstbYes, although I can't remember what uses the user timer, apart from some plugins.
18:09:49bertrikit would be convenient to use another timer to do usec delays
18:10:21bertriklinuxstb, I think backlight fading uses it, some archos protocol uses it and the metronome plugin uses it
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18:23:49kugelJdGordon: I'm not against using a abbreviation, just against having inverse names for wps and the engine behind for the source and manual/irc/w.e.
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18:31:33JdGordon|I just got a rpretty awesome bug in brickmania.... it sudenly had the "press select to continue" text on screen, the bar and powerups were all stuck but the ball kept moving... pressing select made the ball sotp and the paddle move again!
18:32:23kugelfix it...:P
18:33:42JdGordon|too awesome to fix
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18:48:40martian67JdGordon, easter egg!
18:49:11Lynx_Does anyone here use the D2 port on a daily basis?
18:49:26JdGordon|wrong channel....
18:50:14Lynx_JdGordon: is there a #rockbox-D2-port-questions now? ;)
18:50:46 Join Ubuntuxer [0] (
18:51:24pixelmakkurbjun: I don't understand your explanation, as far as I know there is a define you can use for testing for that screen (it's used in some plugin). From a quick glance it's only width and height definitions and not some further calculations that are affected, so I don't understand why a small exception wouldn't be possible. It is still better than before and won't make it look so weird (which would be a regression from a user's point of view :\
18:51:24pixelma )
18:55:40CIA-6New commit by Ubuntuxer (r22071): Fix some tiny bugs in the help screen from solitaire and star
18:57:04 Quit JdGordon| (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
19:00:31CIA-6New commit by mcuelenaere (r22072): Jz4740 PCM driver: check whether pcm_callback_for_more isn't NULL (fixes metronome)
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19:11:29pixelmakkurbjun: it doesn't have to be fully hardcoded, maybe something like "if arch
19:11:41pixelmaerrr... "if Archi
19:12:51pixelma/me tries again... "if Archos screen, then width =1,25 x height"
19:13:05pixelmaor 125/100
19:15:22linuxstbpixelma: What are we talking about? Dealing with the Archos aspect ratio?
19:15:56CIA-6New commit by Ubuntuxer (r22073): Upps, fix to r22071
19:16:20pixelmayes, his change to reversi which will lead to rectangular cells that haven't been there before
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19:16:36pixelmarectangulat looking ones
19:16:43linuxstbpixelma: We have the LCD_PIXEL_ASPECT_WIDTH and LCD_PIXEL_ASPECT_HEIGHT defines for that.
19:17:15 Quit w1ll14m (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:17:24linuxstb(4 and 5 respectively on Archos, 1 and 1 elsewhere)
19:17:47linuxstbSo they can be used directly in any calculations.
19:18:27JdGordon|kugel: yeah, but in that case, the screen name should be changed in the manual also.... I've never been a fan of calling it the "while playing screen" anyway... just sounds either odd or bad english
19:18:45pixelmanice,, so something could be used... just remembered that pictureflow uses something like that
19:19:02linuxstbYes, I think they're relatively new, so maybe they were added for pictureflow.
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19:22:18kugelJdGordon|: calling the engine behind wps is worse :p wps for the gui is a good name imo
19:23:21JdGordon|I dont see how it could be worse or misleading in any way... its got the word engine tacked onto it
19:23:58courtcYay! more bad English!
19:23:59JdGordon|its got nothing to do with playing though...
19:24:20JdGordon|its the drawing and screen layout enginge.. and it needs a short name or normal acronym :)
19:24:22kugelbut the "music_screen" has
19:24:57Hillshumassumes that "music" is exclusive to files played locally
19:24:59BryanJacobshow about "player gui"?
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19:25:40courtclayout_engine, player/player_view
19:26:15*kugel doesn't think "wps" is questioned, just which part is called wps
19:26:15JdGordon|layout_engine was suggested and I liked it, but too long
19:26:39courtcThe name game is fun... albeit slightly pointless if everyone knows what it is.
19:26:39kugelwhat's the problem with long names?
19:27:03JdGordon|well if it gets put as the start of every funciton name...
19:27:19kugelcourtc: I don't expect newcomers (read: interested developers) know about confusing name
19:28:07courtcgtk is apparently ok with long names: gtk_tree_selection_count_selected_rows
19:28:26*JdGordon| checks our project name
19:28:31JdGordon|nope... not gtk
19:28:56kugelI'm for "skin_engine", with the abbreviation "skin" for function names. Also, have you ever heard of autocompletition features of modern text editors? :)
19:29:53JdGordon|so what about them? the idea of a good name is so the code is readable
19:30:20JdGordon|skin engine is lying a bit also...
19:30:28BryanJacobskugel: some of us don't use modern editors or use them without pressing the CTRL key
19:30:52Hillshumsome of us are stuck in the stone age
19:30:56kugelJdGordon|: how?
19:31:05BryanJacobssome of us never evolved beyond monocellular organisms
19:31:31kugelJdGordon|: long descriptive names are better readable than short meaningless abbreviations
19:31:47 Quit bubsy ()
19:31:50JdGordon|hmm... maybe skin_engine could work
19:31:58JdGordon|feel like doing the svn mv'ing?
19:33:09JdGordon|sweet, I'm off the hook :)
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19:42:54JdGordon|domonoky: hey, are you still relying on my mac for osx rbutil builds?
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19:44:06JdGordon|ok, I just reenable the port forward... the network there got "fixed" recently which broke everything :/
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19:45:33linuxstbUbuntuxer: I don't understand your changes to solitaire and star - all LCDs with depth > 1 have the background/foreground functions. In solitaire you added them only for colour targets, and in star you added them only for greyscale targets...
19:45:41*linuxstb too slow again...
19:46:28JdGordon|domonoky: ok, its up again on port 1122... I'm still trying to get my brother to reinstall it so it could drop off.. but unlikely to happen soon
19:47:07domonokythanks, no problem. i only need it for release builds, so not too often :-)
19:47:43JdGordon|release more often!
19:48:00Hillshumdomonoky: I could test that patch for iPod/Sansa reconnects (using my e200v2) if you can get me a build
19:48:27linuxstbHillshum: How?
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19:49:35domonokyHillshum: if you wait a bit, i can make you a macosx build with this patch for you...
19:49:59Hillshumlinuxstb: By seeing if the delay works. Sansapatcher won't quite work though
19:50:31linuxstbBut the e200v2 install is completely different.... Or am I missing something?
19:50:38Hillshumdomonoky: wait. I can test that the delay you used will work, but
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19:50:57domonokyHillshum: ah, with a e200v2 this wont be possible...
19:51:10domonokysansapatcher wont do anything to it
19:52:02Hillshumwill the root issue still be there? (not remounting it time) I could test generic fixes for that...
19:54:12domonokywhen sansapatcher doesnt unmount your device, you can not test if the wait for remount works.. :-)
19:55:40Hillshumahh. I suppose I *could* add a command to unmout it separately....
19:56:16HillshumBTW, would it work to just install the main build first, then run sansapatcher?
19:57:06domonokyno, sansapatcher checks the disk..
19:57:40linuxstbdomonoky: What do you mean? That's how the manual install is described - i.e. install Rockbox first, then install the bootloader.
19:58:02domonokyah, i missunderstood.
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19:58:22domonokyyes doing the bootloader as last would also solve the problem.
19:58:31IuDeXany news about Sansa AMS? :p
19:59:16HillshumIuDeX: not really. I found a bug on the Clip...
20:00:00IuDeXHillshum: O nice ;)
20:00:14HillshumCrossfade crashes the thing
20:00:24Hillshums/the thing/playback
20:00:36IuDeXHillshum: I have crossfade OFF and it crashes without this.
20:00:59Hillshumsame here, but crossfade crashes it instantly
20:01:06domonokyHillshum: Crossfade probably uses just too much memory..
20:01:45Hillshumdomonoky: according to funman, the buffer is -238k or so
20:01:48IuDeXIs there idea how to limit memory for crossfade?
20:02:12domonokyHillshum: that 500k-800k too less :-)
20:03:04domonokyfrom my experiments with AMS low-mem Targets, the audio buffer needs to be atleast ~500k for playback to work..
20:03:15IuDeXIs it possible to delete crossfad? ;)
20:04:06JdGordon|disable it in settings
20:04:21IuDeXit's disabled
20:04:29Hillshumor #ifdef it out on low-mem
20:05:27sintheteki thought i saw a battery life estimate somewhere in rockbox config. can someone point me to it?
20:05:30HillshumIuDeX: if you did crash it, you'll need to restart
20:06:03IuDeXHillshum: I know, but I have to restart it 5times in 2mins ;)
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20:11:13AsaelReitersinthetek: system->rockbox info
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20:15:58sinthetekweak! how'd i miss that the last 2-3x i checked?
20:16:02sinthetekthanks AsaelReiter
20:17:33bertriksinthetek, the battery percentage indicator is pretty accurate on most targets, but the battery life remaining is quite crude on some targets
20:18:22Hillshumis it worse on HDD targets?
20:18:34bertrikI don't know
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20:21:33chukyis there support (or planned support) for the sansa scandisk clip 4gb?
20:21:58Hillshumchuky: it's in-development
20:21:59chukywhile looking for mp3 players with open firmware, found you, and also those sansa being just 35 euros
20:22:03chukyah ok, thanks
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20:33:49linuxstbchuky: Although there are two hardware revisions of the Clip (v1 and v2). Rockbox runs (but not reliably) on the v1, and I'm not sure of the status (if any) on the v2.
20:34:34chukyah, and which would be the better (while cheap) that I could that rockbox supports linuxstb?
20:34:44chuky*that I could buy
20:35:01Hillshumthere's some progress on the v2, not much
20:35:03Bagderchuky: see BuyersGuide in the wiki
20:35:11chukyah ok, thanks
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20:36:24chukyhell, no one on the table is in production
20:36:59Tornewe know. :)
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20:38:10linuxstbchuky: It's almost always that way - "lifetime of DAPs" < "time needed to port Rockbox"
20:38:25chukyno no, I don't care, I mean
20:38:26Hillshumchuky: you won't have to worry about voiding your warranty
20:38:42chukyas long as it is usable, the only problem would perhaps be to find one to buy
20:38:51chukyyes, that's true as well
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20:58:27CIA-6New commit by mcuelenaere (r22074): Jz4740 PCM driver: do 32-bit or 16-bit burst sizes if 16-byte ones won't fit (improves PDBox)
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21:01:38JdGordon|hey Zagor, did you see my message in the logs?
21:01:43CIA-6New commit by mcuelenaere (r22075): Jz4740 timer driver: only init timer in timer_set() when start is true
21:03:09ZagorJdGordon|: yes depgen has always been single-shot i.e. it doesn't rerun for changed files. run "make dep" to recreate it.
21:03:43Zagorthe alternative is to use per-file dependency files, which is *much* slower
21:03:54JdGordon|ok, I guess it doesnt happen often, but it sounds weird to not reg a files deps if its changed
21:03:55Zagorbut it allows automatic dependency updates
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21:04:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:05:16Zagorit's a compromise. creating 800+ dependency files (by running gcc for each one) takes a lot of time compared to todays' solution
21:06:08Zagorwe could of course also rerun the current depgen every time a file is changed, but that also doesn't feel like it would bring applause :)
21:06:41LearEspecially from Cygwin users... :)
21:07:03 Quit mcuelenaere ()
21:07:22HillshumZagor: I'm on a PPC system right now, I added ppc to, as 32 bit.
21:07:30HillshumSeems alright
21:08:39ZagorHillshum: excellent
21:09:15Zagoroh, you didn't commit it?
21:10:53Zagorgah, you beat is in the low-speed contest!
21:11:04Zagorbeat us
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21:12:15HillshumZagor: I guess I won't be able to build sims...
21:12:43Zagoribook-Hillshum speed 9 points/second
21:13:14Hillshumwhat does that mean?
21:13:29JdGordon|slow :D
21:13:49Zagorit's just a measure of build speed. the fastest clients are at 400+
21:14:24Zagorbefore you, I and gevaerts had a "fight" about having the slowest client with 15 and 14 points/sec. you beat us!
21:14:58HillshumHaha. 700Mhz
21:15:48ej0rgeI've been offered a sharp zaurus sl5500 as a potential build client.
21:16:02JdGordon|doh sorry
21:16:29JdGordon|Zagor: any chance of having the times in the stats page have the build name also?
21:16:51rasherZagor: Surely that title was mine!
21:16:56JdGordon|as hover text or something
21:17:09ZagorJdGordon|: yeah I considered that before but decided against since it would be so wide. but hover is a good idea.
21:17:12*pixelma is glad to see time stamps in the build table again :)
21:17:24ej0rgeI'd have to stick an ethernet card in the CF slot and boot debian/arm off an SD card
21:17:38Zagorrasher: cygwin doesn't count!
21:17:39ej0rgeor use nfs foot . . .
21:18:13*JdGordon| is going to setup a vm on his netbook to steal the slowest client title
21:18:14 Quit w1ll14m (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:18:47ZagorJdGordon|: cygwin and virtual machines is cheating. only native systems count.
21:19:14Zagorthis is a very important contest with strict rules! :-)
21:19:23JdGordon|sorry, my mistake
21:20:11bertrikI'm seeing some weird backlight code in the samsung yp-s3 OF
21:20:23JdGordon|has anyone got a ps3 running a client?
21:20:29bertrikit seems to quickly toggle the backlight at some point
21:20:35ZagorJdGordon|: I don't think so
21:20:53Zagorbertrik: fading?
21:20:57n1sJdGordon: lock the netbook on the lowest cpu speed and watch youtube all the time!
21:21:13*JdGordon| wonders if the fund would like to sponser a ps3 for me which would run a client 24/7 except when playing games :)
21:21:24bertrikZagor, I don't think so, it doesn't do this all the time, only 15 cycles or so
21:21:49bertrikMaybe this is some kind of debug mechanism, or maybe it's just a very weird way to program the backlight dimming
21:22:30bertrikI can dim the backlight with PWM from a timer, but it doesn't seem to work reliably, I have to lower the PWM frequency to make it work on lower intensities
21:25:55bertrikthe code seems to toggle the backlight 16 times, waits a bit and then toggles it for a variable number of times
21:30:00bertrikthis WM1800 codec seems to match other wolfson codecs pretty well w.r.t. register layout
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21:49:18Zagordo we have a reason for not using -pipe to gcc? the docs say it can cause problems with non-gnu assemblers, but that hardly applies to us
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21:53:20rasherZagor: Sounds unlikely
21:54:46rasherTry it and see!
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23:51:06bertrikI think I see some similarities between the power controller used in the samsung yp-s3 and the one in the meizus
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