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#rockbox log for 2009-08-08

00:00:49 Join truthtaco_ [0] (
00:02:49 Quit Zarggg (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:09:06CIA-6New commit by kugel (r22196): Finally tag the PP bootloader v6 release, excluding the new'ish PP samsungs though since a bit of code will be needed to be touched
00:11:29JdGordon|kugel: in all serious though... the reason customvp didnt go in for 3.3 was that we ran out of time before the commit... just looking at the dates, unless it goes in in the next fortnight we are going to end up having the same arguments about how soon before release we can allow it to go in...
00:11:55*JdGordon| is still not entirely conviced 3 month cycle works well...
00:12:30kugelJdGordon|: sadly though I had exams three weeks ago, and finally a bit of free time for doing vacations since then
00:12:44 Quit petur (Remote closed the connection)
00:14:28kugelI don't think I need to justify myself for vistiting some relatives after 4 month of uni stress
00:14:47 Quit DarkSpectrum ()
00:15:22 Quit captainkwel ("Page closed")
00:15:53gevaertskugel: nobody is blaming you for anything...
00:16:29kugelfine then :)
00:17:17 Quit TruthTaco (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:18:19kugelJdGordon|: but yea, I'm feeling a bit guilty for not doing much on it recently
00:19:15saratoga_I don't see why we need to rush to get things into releases, just commit them when they're ready
00:19:48kugelI don't think we can talk of rushing in this case
00:19:49 Join DarkSpectrum [0] (
00:20:02CIA-6New commit by bluebrother (r22197): Fix rbutil build on w32.
00:20:16 Quit Zagor ("Clint excited")
00:21:16 Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.)
00:21:25 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:22:04kugelJdGordon|: speaking of releases, what's about your RB_RELEASE patch?
00:23:07JdGordon|I guess it works fine... I wanted to do more with the perl scripts that are in svn already, but accidently nuked my tree so havnt touched it since :p
00:23:20JdGordon|the code part should be fine to commit thoguh.. unless someone has a better idea how to do it
00:23:49saratoga_bluebrother: can you commit the YH rbutil patch?
00:25:20bluebrothersaratoga_: is it likely to be supported in the next Rockbox release? I'm not sure how we should deal with targets that are not-supported-yet
00:25:44saratoga_bluebrother: probably, but are you planning to build a new rbutil for that release anyway?
00:25:54kugelI think it will be supported, at least the yh925 I own
00:26:32bluebrotherok, so the specific player (not model) owned by kugel will be supported :P
00:26:47saratoga_actually is there any reason not to add players to rbutil even if they're unsupported?
00:27:05bluebrotherI haven't planned to build a new rbutil for 3.4, but if we add support for new models we kinda need to
00:27:14kugelI don't see a problem with rbutil identifying not supported daps
00:27:59bluebrotherwell, not really, but the question is how we want to deal with players that are not on the list of supported players. Having support in rbutil might imply they are officially supported, which might be a bad implication for end-users.
00:28:26bluebrotherhence the question how we want to deal with that. I have no problems supporting players that are not supported in rbutil (what a sentence :)
00:28:26saratoga_it won't install until we release a bootloader, and that won't happen until its officially supported
00:28:46saratoga_so at worst they can put in an unsupported player and it won't install rockbox, same as now :)
00:29:02bluebrotherwhich means we'd get bug reports about the bootloader not installing properly :/
00:29:21saratoga_we get dumb error reports all the time, they can be closed
00:29:25saratoga_takes like 10 seconds
00:30:18saratoga_imo this is not a good reason to delay committing good code
00:31:37bluebrotherwell, closing dumb error reports takes time, so it's additional noise. Nothing I'd like to get more about, really. Which takes us to the question about the amount of noise we're likely to get, and if the amount of noise is worth it.
00:32:41saratoga_do they really impact you? usually things like this are just closed by random developers who have the RSS feed setup
00:34:11bluebrotherno, they don't impact me personally. As I said, I generally have no problem with supporting players that are not marked as supported yet. If people think the additional noise is not an issue: fine.
00:34:16kugelI don't think closing a meaningless bug report once in a while is a problem
00:35:03bluebrotherthe reason for not committing that patch was simply that I wanted to have that cleared up first.
00:35:13saratoga_oh ok
00:35:17gevaertskugel: when do you think they will be ready to be supported?
00:35:40kugelthey basically are (not the 920)
00:35:45saratoga_i think they're ready now, aside from rbutil and the bootloaders
00:36:02bluebrotherwhat's left about the bootloaders?
00:36:11gevaertsso why not release a bootloader now, and avoid this entire rbutil-and-unsupported-targets problem?
00:36:12 Quit DarkSpectrum (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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00:36:58saratoga_we'll need to test it
00:37:13saratoga_or at least i think the tradition is to let people use bootloaders for a while before we release them
00:37:15kugelthey actually as stable as all PP targets, and even have USB. There's little to do about them (keymaps and recording, nothing else comes into my mind right now)
00:37:47kugelthough, I think they're going to have the same USB problems as HD ipods
00:38:02kugelthat's just a guess, I haven't done any testing
00:38:14saratoga_you mean asking permission to charge?
00:38:16CIA-6New commit by gevaerts (r22198): recalibrate the samsung yhxxx builds since they have plugins now
00:38:48kugelsaratoga: no, not getting enough energy when the HD is spinning
00:39:01saratoga_well same thing
00:39:18kugelI couldn't parse permission to charge then
00:39:24saratoga_though i don't understand why this isn't a problem on the sansas?
00:39:47 Part DarkSpectrum
00:39:48bluebrotherok, that sounds fairly complete.
00:39:49 Quit Galois ("Leaving")
00:40:02gevaertssaratoga_: it has nothing to do with the USB side of things (although that isn't perfect by any means), but everything with actually enabling the charger
00:40:18 Quit StealthyXIIGer (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:40:21*bluebrother searches for some ipodpatcher scsi-inquiry changes he made to make it actually work on w32 some while back
00:40:36 Join DarkSpectrum [0] (
00:40:40saratoga_how is "getting enough energy when the HD is spinning" releated to the charger enable?
00:41:12kugelno idea, I just heard ipids die if they aren't charged enough and the HD is constantly spinning
00:41:22kugelipods too
00:41:31 Part DarkSpectrum
00:41:59gevaertsIt looks to me as if the ipods are actually always powered from battery
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00:42:59saratoga_if the only problem is the GPIO for the charger (or whatever enables it) I don't think thats a big problem
00:43:04linuxstbbluebrother: The code I committed doesn't work on w32?
00:43:22saratoga_that will at least mean it won't die when connected to the PC, even if it doesn't charge
00:43:31*JdGordon| sees a clip patch on the tracker to make playback better!
00:43:36gevaertssaratoga_: FS #8802 has the details
00:43:49saratoga_i've read that task before
00:43:50kugelJdGordon|: FS?
00:44:01saratoga_IIRC the problem was that no one was comfortable enabling charging without knowing more
00:44:04bluebrotherlinuxstb: no, but it's the same issue I debugged back the time you started it: the DeviceIoControl sometimes returns more data, with the additional data being garbage.
00:44:18kugelthe feed is too slow
00:44:56JdGordon|-sf email ftw :p
00:45:19kugelI don't think that's the proper solution, or it hides the real bug
00:45:38kugelwe also had success at the devcon with slightly reducing the codec buffer and putting the stack into iram
00:45:54JdGordon|is the playback issues only with mp3? I cant say I've noticed which codecs have been problematic
00:46:04linuxstbbluebrother: Check the IRC logs - 20090315 at 14.43.14
00:46:51saratoga_its not just mp3
00:46:58saratoga_and anyway mp3 uses hardly any codec memory
00:46:59linuxstbbluebrother: pastebin with your changes has expired though... :(
00:47:04 Quit TSS_Killer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:47:19saratoga_all that patch is doing is shuffling things around in memory
00:47:33saratoga_so that whatever gets stepped on doesn't matter
00:47:39 Join Galois [0] (
00:47:47kugelsaratoga: on the clip, everything is in iram
00:48:04saratoga_yeah i know
00:48:05kugeleven if mp3 moves much stuff to iram, it's the same
00:48:40kugelon the clip there isn't even a sort of CODEC_IRAM #define
00:48:45 Join Strife89 [0] (
00:49:04saratoga_yes I know
00:49:52 Quit ender` (" With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they")
00:50:07*kugel just closed a stupid bug report, without feeling harassed or something :p
00:52:54kugelsaratoga: giving codecs more could change something though
00:53:22saratoga_thats what I said 6 minutes ago
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00:55:14kugelit sounded to me as you said it wouldn't change anything
00:57:18saratoga_i mean that its shuffling around the contents of memory, so whatever is getting corrupted is apparently less important to playback
00:57:54 Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:58:23CIA-6New commit by bluebrother (r22199): Fix SCSI inquiry on W32. ...
00:59:08 Quit saratoga_ ("Page closed")
01:00:13bluebrotherBagder: the build system runs on rbutil/ commits as well. Intended?
01:00:54gevaertsbluebrother: there's no filtering yet
01:01:54bluebrotherah, ok.
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01:02:39perahi \o
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01:03:46bluebrotherho o/
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01:09:52bluebrotherhmm. Why does the samsung patch hold two bootloader file filenames for the YH-920?
01:10:39bluebrotherthis won't work, as there's only one location the bootloader file can get put at.
01:11:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:13:51 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
01:14:03kugelbluebrother: not sure. I just know that /SYSTEM/FW_YH925.mi4 is correct for my yh925 and the existing /SYSTEM/FW_YH925.mi4 needs to be renamed to OF.mi4 (for dual boot)
01:17:26daseinhornHi! I have a SAMSUNG YH-J70J mp3 player that I am attempting to "recycle" for use under Linux. It is not listed among the supported players, however some other Samsung players are listed as supported. I would like to know if you guys think that Rockbox will be compatible with my player. Thanks!
01:17:50Mikachuif the exact model isn't there, it won't work
01:18:24kugelbluebrother: PP5020.mi4 doesn't work here
01:19:31daseinhornOk. Just out of a wild guess, do you know of any other firmware alternatives? The current firmware of the player is only compatible with WinXP and Windows media player 10, which is very restrictive and unconvenient.
01:19:31 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:20:11bluebrotherkugel: ok, but this means a bit of additional work is necessary to support that bootloader naming "model".
01:20:58kugelreally? it's the same file you can after make'ing the bootloader
01:21:18kugelI thought rbutil would download a FW_YH925.mi4 from our download servers
01:25:43bluebrotherwell, it could do that. We still need to know where to place the downloaded file, and the download does put it into a temporary file so we need to pass the filename explicitly.
01:26:42bluebrotherat least need to give that a closer look
01:27:48kugelbluebrother: how's it done for the H10?
01:30:24bluebrotherI can't see any special handling for the H10 though I remember that there was some once. Maybe there's a bug ...
01:30:53bluebrotheror I'm somewhat blind right now.
01:31:50kugelbluebrother: it's the same installation procedure
01:33:59bluebrothergnaaah! yh_920 as modelname, but yh920 for the svn builds :(
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01:35:32bluebrotherBagder: should rbutil use the new download locations in the future or stick to the old paths?
01:35:37JdGordon_change the model name...
01:36:15bluebrotherwe really need to clean up this naming mess in general
01:36:17kugelthe new pathes are mad imo
01:36:28bluebrotherwhat's mad about those?
01:37:08kugelthey aren't as one would expect
01:37:38kugelI mean, they're fine, but the old pathes should at least get a "v6" symlink to it
01:37:41bluebrotherI don't expect anything special here, so I can't see anything different to my expectations
01:37:48bluebrotherv6 symlink?
01:37:52 Join panni_ [0] (
01:38:04bluebrotherI'm talking about svn builds, not bootloader builds
01:38:45kugelah, sorry, I somehow thought you talked about the bootloader pathes (which also changed for PP)
01:38:59 Quit daseinhorn (Remote closed the connection)
01:39:07bluebrotherthey did? Didn't spot that.
01:39:28gevaertskugel: IIRC those will be corrected
01:40:05 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
01:42:20kugelbluebrother: PP v6 bootloaders are here: (instead of
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01:52:45 Nick DarkSpectrum- is now known as DarkSpectrum (
01:54:27DarkSpectrumanyway.... so what's the name gonna be, WTS ?
01:54:58*DarkSpectrum fires up his outline to make final notes
01:55:41linuxstbDarkSpectrum: You're talking about the radio screen?
01:55:48kugelDarkSpectrum: I think that a) we have time to decide on that and b) whoever gets around commiting decides that :)
01:56:48DarkSpectrumbtw, what all from the tuner did you want moved into firmware?
01:57:15kugelnothing I think
01:57:45DarkSpectrumJdGordon was wanting something moved, but i don't know what all he wanted
01:57:52kugelI haven't looked at the code, but firmware/ is generally for target dependant code
01:58:24kugelunless it's an #ifdef hell, everthing should be in apps (IMO)
01:58:53DarkSpectrumthats where i've moved it all is to /apps/tuner
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02:02:39CIA-6New commit by bluebrother (r22200): Move download link pattern description to rbutil.ini. ...
02:02:46DarkSpectrumon another note, which target has the largest screen size?
02:03:26bluebrotherfor supported targets the beast. IIRC.
02:03:54linuxstbThe beast isn't supported, is it?
02:03:54 Quit bertrik (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:04:06bluebrotherthere's some touchscreen target with a larger resolution but I can't remember which it was. Or are you talking about the physical screen size?
02:04:25bluebrotherah, right. Beast is still not officially supported.
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02:04:45linuxstbBut that's still just 240x320 - same as the Gigabeat F (and ipod video)
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02:05:08*bluebrother stands corrected
02:05:19DarkSpectrumdamn internet
02:05:33DarkSpectrumi ment largest pixel size
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02:07:40bluebrotherI guess that would be some old archos player though that has a small resolution. Why are you asking?
02:08:07DarkSpectrumto test some screen's on i want the largest and smallest
02:08:23ej0rgebluebrother: the mr500i is 640x480 but can't play video
02:08:34linuxstbDarkSpectrum: Are you asking which devices have the highest and lowest resolutions (total number of pixels) ?
02:09:13linuxstbThen smallest is Archos (112x64), largest is Gigabeat (240x320) or ipod video (320x240)
02:09:27DarkSpectrumcool, ty
02:09:38linuxstbDon't forget remote LCDs as well - 128x64 is common (I think)
02:09:38bluebrotherif you don't count the charcell display of the player ;-)
02:09:41DarkSpectrumthought there was at least 1 with 640x480 though
02:09:58ej0rgeYes, the m:robe mr500i is 640x480
02:10:08ej0rgebut you can also run it at 320x240
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02:10:48DarkSpectrum500i is not supported yet though, right?
02:11:09*linuxstb remembers the ipod video and gigabeat (F) don't have radio...
02:11:25saratogaalthough theres a radio accessory patch for the video on the tracker now
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02:12:12ej0rgeDarkSpectrum: No, not supported. Getting functional, though
02:12:21*bluebrother decides to call it a day. 'nite guys.
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02:12:27DarkSpectrumi might as well use that rez then
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02:13:42iNobueI've an iPod.. nano? 4gb, and it just fails to install boot loader.
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02:14:35linuxstb"it" ? And what generation Nano?
02:14:42iNobueNooot sure.
02:15:05linuxstbLook here -
02:16:01iNobue2nd gen.
02:16:18linuxstbNow look here -
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03:32:41JohnTeddyWhat is the best low cost audio player to buy, that runs rockbox. Something with a good $ per gig rate.
03:34:59TruthTacoi dont have a HD based player but ive heard the ipod video is good
03:35:48TruthTacotheres a buyers guide on the website though
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03:39:10JohnTeddyI said 'low cost', apple is expensive. anything good flash based?
03:39:38saratogaJohnTeddy: check the buyers guide
03:41:51TruthTacoI have a Sansa Fuze and its a pretty nice flash based
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04:19:25JohnTeddyTruthTaco: Does rockbox support that? I thought the fuze wasn't supported yet.
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04:20:22TruthTacoits not offically supported yet, but there is an unsupported test build ive been using so far havent had any problems.
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06:27:43amageehey i've just installed the latest rockbox on my ipod; how can i get it to randomly shuffle through my entire collection?
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06:34:19TruthTacocheck the rockbox manual
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06:54:11amageeoh.. i still need to create a playlist containing everything in order to shuffle?
06:55:38amageei looked up the 'shuffle' section in the manual and it says as much, linking to a section on making playlists which is apparently "halp written" with "possible errors"
06:57:50TruthTacowell i dont use the feature, but i think you might have to make a playlist with all your songs and then shuffle it
06:58:09amageeTruthTaco: any hints on how to do that
06:58:35TruthTacoid tell you if i knew, but i know about as much as you
06:58:42amageeah i see
06:58:58TruthTacolike i said, i dont even use shuffle, or havent yet anyways
06:59:48TruthTacothere you go
07:00:03amageeyeah i read that a few years ago, which is why i stopped using rockbox
07:00:12amageebut someone just told me it had changed a lot so i thought i'd try it again
07:00:50scorchewhat are you trying to do?
07:01:14amageeshuffle everything.. like the default apple firmware does
07:02:01scorchethen just add everything into a playlist shuffled or if you use the database have shuffle on and click on a song
07:02:37amageescorche: how do i "have shuffle on"
07:02:40scorchei usually just long press on my music folder and hit insert shuffled
07:02:47scorcheturn the shuffle setting on?
07:02:58scorchehave you read the manual? gives lots of good info on stuff like this..
07:03:28amageekind of
07:03:57TruthTacoon the song playing screen you can press down and it brings up something that lets you shuffle
07:03:59amageeit's quite difficult
07:04:12TruthTacolong down press
07:04:21TruthTacodunno if thats what your looking for though
07:04:36scorcheamagee: what is quite difficult?
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07:05:12amageethe manual
07:05:33amageeok i think i've figured it out now
07:05:56scorchethe manual is difficult?
07:06:38amageewell, i looked up shuffle, it started referring to playlists and took me to a section which it described as "half written" and "may have errors"
07:07:18scorcheeverything in rockbox is a playlist
07:08:17scorchewhether you know it or not, every time you click on a song, an album, etc, a playlist is made
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07:29:03AJzerI'm trying to reformat my 5.5 gen 80gb using mtools. However, I'm getting errors "drive a: not supported"), and I set up the config file as instructed.
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07:32:40AJzerI've had exactly this problem:
07:33:25AJzerand noticing the partition size was off, I thought I might try mtools old way of formatting. Haven't been able to get past the above mformat error, though.
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08:22:57tmztAJzer_: mformat -i /dev/device :: should work
08:23:06tmztit default to drive a (in mtools.conf)
08:23:45tmztI would suggest using mkfs.vfat or mkdosfs -F 32 though
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09:21:41CIA-6New commit by kkurbjun (r22201): M:Robe 500: Make yes/no screen work better and add appropriate strings for some screens. Rockboy: Improve m:robe 500 default keymap.
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10:08:37linuxstbbertrik: Have you noticed any strings referring to the Whimory in your Samsung player? In the Nano2G there are things like c:\bwa\N36Firmware-38\srcroot\Firmware\Shared\Services\hwapi\soc\samsung\nand\Whimory2_1\core\VFL\VFLBuffer.c
10:08:39CIA-6New commit by nls (r22202): Remove old fixme, the 'working with playlists' seems to be in pretty good shape
10:09:14bertriklinuxstb, yes, I looked quite extensively at the FTL now
10:09:39bertrikthe Whimory signature in my samsung player is "220W"
10:09:44linuxstbDo you actually have raw NAND reading working?
10:09:57bertrikthis is not the same as in the openiboot code
10:10:17bertriklinuxstb, I can download NAND contents using a windows Samsung tool
10:10:45bertrikI mean transfer from player to computer
10:10:47linuxstbAh, so that's the raw NAND, not the results of the FTL?
10:12:00bertrikyes I think so, the utility allows me to choose between "main" and "spare" NAND and also between ECC on or off
10:12:14bertrikI can find the primary and secondary bootloaders in the NAND
10:12:34linuxstbSo there's no NOR flash?
10:13:06bertrikI don't think so, although in the primary bootloader I found some strings referring to NOR Flash
10:14:35linuxstbDid you get anywhere booting a main Rockbox build on your Meizu? I have some code I wrote for the Nano2G, and am wondering if I should try and clean it up and commit, or if you have something better.
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10:15:22bertrikI haven't looked at the meizu much the past two weeks, I've basically done nothing except some minor stuff in the lcd driver
10:16:42bertrikWhat did you write?
10:17:23linuxstbNot much really, just an, some changes (I think) to crt0.S, and added some missing function stubs
10:17:50bertrikI would like to clean up the s5l8700 PCM code a bit
10:18:12bertrikI think some of the #ifdefs could go if we just updated the divisors table
10:18:17linuxstbMy Nano2G was freezing somewhere in the init functions, and I couldn't debug where... I've got a feeling the stack was being corrupted somewhere.
10:19:00linuxstbbertrik: Yes, I didn't really intend to commit my changes - it was an accident... But as they were there, I left them.
10:20:10bertrikyou're using the third PLL to generate the MCLK frequency, right? I wonder if this PLL is also available in the meizus
10:20:25linuxstbI thought I was using the same as you?
10:22:04linuxstbI think the Nano's OF (or diagmode) was using the third PLL, but I changed it to the same as the Meizu.
10:22:13linuxstbBoth seem to work fine.
10:22:36bertrikhm, you're right, don't know where I got that
10:22:54linuxstbMaybe you saw an earlier version of my patch - that used the third PLL
10:23:26*linuxstb leaves, back later...
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10:39:56TheCoolGmanIt's amazing how the current build source is still r21932
10:42:10TheCoolGmanI mean daily build
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10:43:16bertrikdo you want to know why? or do you want to get the latest code?
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11:24:45CIA-6New commit by bertrik (r22203): Samsung yp-s3: clean up the lcd and button driver (making things static, rename variables etc.)
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13:13:45n1spixelma: what do you think of FS #10491 ? is it obvious what a "keyclick" is or should that be explained?
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13:19:46pixelmahmm... my first thought was that if there should be an explanantion then more along the lines of "you'll here a click sound on every key press" or so. I think that would be more descriptive in case someone doesn't understand the word itself (?)
13:20:43n1sthat's what i thought too, "keyclick" isn't terribly descriptive (and might be confused with the piezo click the ipod OF uses)
13:20:44tmztI think it's pretty evident, at least in English
13:21:05tmztis this on changing selection in a menu?
13:21:39n1sit's on button press
13:22:52pixelmatmzt: this is for a description of a setting in the manual (if that's what you asked)
13:23:06tmztoh, in the manual
13:23:12tmztnot in the user interface itself
13:23:47Mikachui think it wouldn't hurt to mention it
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13:54:45cfpHello world :)
13:55:31cfpI've created a mastermind plugin ; would anybody accept to test it?
13:56:19tmzta c plugin?
13:56:32pixelmais it in the tracker?
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13:56:36tmztsome reason for that? html would work I imagine
13:57:06pixelmatmzt: huh, in Rockbox?
13:57:14tmztoh sorry
13:57:32tmztvery tired, I thought this was the webos channel
13:57:54tmztfun game though
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14:02:13gevaertstmzt: please don't recommend dosfstools for 5.5G ipods. It creates filesystems that rockbox doesn't deal with corretly on 2048-byte sectors
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14:08:31pixelmahmm, guess it only draw rectangles for the pieces? I'm asking because I once made a mockup how it could work on the Archos screens (patterns instead of colours so external bitmaps would work better, and it would need horizontal scrolling I guess). This could be added later though I guess... ;)
14:08:56pixelmalots of guessing...
14:09:29cfppixelma: indeed, it only draws rectangles.
14:09:55cfpI thought it would make a basis to start with
14:09:58tmztgevaerts: okay, so mtools is recommended?
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14:10:19gevaertstmzt: yes. That's why it says so om the wiki
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14:12:03pixelmacfp: yes, that's true - logic of the game and drawing are two seperate things
14:12:10pixelmaor can be
14:12:48cfpthe good thing with rectangles is that it fits on all screens (at least on color LCDs). Using bitmap for the pieces would look wierd on small screens (or we could make different pieces for different screen sizes)
14:12:52CIA-6New commit by bluebrother (r22204): Clean up some debug output, kill some trailing spaces and break some overly long lines.
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14:16:19*gevaerts wonders if calling it "mastermind" is a good idea
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14:18:15cfpgevaerts: copyright problems? I couldn't really think of another name... Maybe "mming" or something with "code" inside? (codebreaker? yuck :s)
14:18:48gevaertscfp: trademark things, yes.
14:18:59pixelmarockmind or masterbox of course ;)
14:19:20cfppixelma: =D
14:19:40cfpI think they have a mastermind in CHDK though
14:20:00*cfp realizes that CHDK must have 100 times less users than rockbox :)
14:21:37pixelmain Germany that game was called (translated back) "Superbrain" by some manufacturers
14:21:57*domonoky suggests: "Hyperbrain" :-)
14:22:16cfpin France the name is "mastermind"
14:22:28cfpbulls and cows?
14:22:49cfpit's not really a bulls and cows game though
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14:28:51CIA-6New commit by bluebrother (r22205): Support libusb-1.0. ...
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14:50:29CIA-6New commit by teru (r22206): snake:go back to menu when game is over. save highscores using pluginlib highscore.
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15:04:52*domonoky needs someone with perl knowledge to modify genlang.cgi, so it can handle revisions like: "3.3" for building voicefiles in rbutil for rockbox releases !
15:06:04CIA-6New commit by Domonoky (r22207): rbutil: try to fix voicefile creation for releases. (genlang.cgi still needs fixing).
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15:33:29CIA-6New commit by teru (r22208): snake2: add standard start menu. use pluginlib highscore for highscores.
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15:44:09CIA-6New commit by teru (r22209): fix red: add a define accidentally removed
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16:02:14cfpHello world (again) :)
16:03:12cfpQuestion about PLA: should pluginlib_action be used in plugins or not? I saw it had been removed from some plugins...
16:09:30n1s"maybe" :)
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16:10:33*cfp is ?-)
16:10:55kugelcfp: no, it's not going to be removed, but replaced with something more simple
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16:14:33cfpkugel: I see; yet, for my plugin (, should I use for now the old pluginlib_actions, or just wait for the new one to be commited?
16:15:03kugelhow many actions do you need?
16:16:01kugelthe new pla will give 4 directions, select, and and cancel
16:16:15cfpExit, Menu, Select, Up/Down/Left/Right
16:16:18kugelincluding repeat, that is
16:16:32cfpno menu then ?
16:16:44kugelexit could be moved into the menu, I'd think
16:16:59cfpyet there is no key to directly exit the plugin ?
16:17:12kugelI don't think that desperately needed
16:17:13pixelmaI find it nice to also be able to quit directly
16:18:09cfpFeels strange to me that the same button used for turning the music off and going back to the menu (power on gigabeat f) just opens a menu in plugins...
16:18:36cfpI mean, on gigabeat for example, there are buttons labeled power and menu, used for exiting and showing a menu
16:18:38kugeli find it nice also, but I'd rather use pla than making dozens of target specific keymaps just for that
16:18:57cfpisn't there enough buttons on all targets?
16:20:19*bertrik wonders what to do with FS #10447
16:20:24cfppixelma: I meant that if the exit button is used for menus on gigabeat, it will contradict its overall behaviour in the rest of rockbox (turn the music off and return to the home menu)
16:21:41bertrikit basically only changes comments that were too long to fit in 80 characters, it doesn't fix or change actual code
16:21:48kugelcfp: you could use PLA_CANCEL_REPEAT for directly exiting, but I'm still worried if that might lead to accidental power offs if PLA_CANCEL happens to be the same button as the normal power off one
16:22:03pixelmafour directions, select, menu and quit could even be mapped to the Ondio (either menu on a long press of the Mode button, or on a short Off with long Off being quit
16:22:10cfpkugel: sure
16:23:34pixelmabut: if there is anything special about the controls, I'd prefer to have the mapping in the plugin itself, much easier to adjust to different button layout or limitations
16:23:38kugelpixelma: long mode will have SELECT_REPEAT
16:23:44n1si think 4 directions menu, select and quit is the minimum for being useful in anything but the simplest cases
16:24:22*cfp agrees with nls :)
16:24:54kugeln1s: that's what it's going to be meant for. PLA proved itself that it's useless for more advanced keymappings
16:24:56pixelmakugel: long Off then, some plugins do that now (e.g. Sudoku) and I can't remember accidentally turning the Ondio off
16:25:22kugelpixelma: long off will be CANCEL_REPEAT
16:26:05rasherbertrik: Regarding the FM region settings. What was wrong with the solution I suggested? It seems to fullfill the following criteria: 1) Users can easily identify which region they need 2) People aren't suffering needlessly small frequency steps (because of the Italy and Korea regions) 3) There's a catch-all that will work for most also
16:26:10kugeluhm, it can't be menu?
16:26:24bertrikrasher, I just stopped caring ...
16:26:41pixelmakugel: short Off for the menu, long Off for quit
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16:26:49bertrikI don't see anything wrong with your suggestion
16:27:36cfppixelma: you mean, on targets that do not have a separate menu button?
16:27:50kugelpixelma: short of is CANCEL, long off is CANCEL_REPEAT
16:28:01kugelall PLA_* get their _REPEAT action
16:28:23pixelmawhat would you need CANCEL_REPEAT for?
16:28:25bertrikone tiny thing nagging me about the fm regions is that each driver seems to have its own struct for a region, so you'll have to add regions for each tuner driver
16:28:44cfpkugel: isn't it a bit strange that CANCEL opens a menu and CANCEL_REPEAT exits? There is not much about cancelling in this...
16:28:53kugelpixelma: what do I know? people requested it
16:29:18kugelcfp: it's just the name for the action, don't put too much into that word
16:29:20pixelmaI think we are talking about different things atm
16:29:29kugelI think not
16:29:45cfpkugel: hmmm... ok :)
16:30:05pixelmaI mean map quit to CANCEL_REPEAT and menu to CANCEL - I just used the words for what it would be on the Ondio for it
16:30:19*cfp is a bit lost
16:30:24pixelmas/words/button names
16:30:24kugelcfp: if you read through the task, Llorean wanted it to be called _CANCEL instead of _QUIT
16:30:42rasherbertrik: I don't see any reason not to commit FS #10447?
16:30:44cfpkugel: ok
16:30:47kugelpixelma: that's what I proposed a few minutes ago also
16:31:19kugelbut we apparently really talked about different things :)
16:31:34bertrikrasher, ok, just seems so useless... but it closes a open task! :P
16:31:54cfpkugel, pixelma: this solution still is a problem on targets where there are two separate buttons for menu and exit, no?
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16:32:11kugelno, it's not going to be seperate
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16:32:45kugelcancel and cancel_repeat will be the same button on every target
16:32:54pixelmawell if you want to have faine grained control over your button mappings, don't use PLA
16:33:01pixelmafine too
16:34:01kugelhmm, although, instead of cancel_repeat we could have menu to allow for seperate buttons
16:35:22cfpWhat about having a MENU action, and making it an alias of CANCEL on targets where there is no additional button?
16:35:41kugelno, we're definitely not going to do that
16:36:11cfpkugel: ?
16:36:32kugelthat would make pla behave unexpected
16:37:36pixelmapeople would need to know that there won't be a CANCEL_REPEAT action then, where I wouldn't know what it could be used for atm (some example could prove me wrong though)
16:37:45CIA-6New commit by bertrik (r22210): Apply FS #10447 - e200v2 lcd driver cleanup by Michael Chicoine
16:38:11pixelmaI think if it gets complicated again then we could also remove PLA - more work but less trouble
16:39:37cfpkugel: Well then why not simply remove CANCEL_REPEAT and have: MENU (CANCEL), and EXIT(CANCEL_REPEAT or EXIT)
16:40:15kugelI think I'm going to do that
16:40:30pixelmacfp: that's what he meant (if I understood correctly this time..) ;)
16:40:42*pixelma apparently did
16:41:24*cfp is happy
16:41:34*cfp is a bit slow some times...
16:41:43cfpgreat then
16:42:23cfpoff-topic: what about rock-hypermind-box then?
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16:44:06bertrikdreadful, the whole thing with plugins starting/ending with rock or box is not to be taken too seriously
16:48:42cfpbertrik: just jocking, I did read the page that said .*box and rock.* plugins where getting too numerous :)
16:49:03rasherI think there's a good chance mastermind is a trademark
16:49:41cfprasher: indeed, it is :s
16:51:54cfprasher: w/a codebuster?
16:52:27cfprather than mastermind, what about codebuster?
16:52:46rasherAh! Not bad
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16:54:14rasherBoth sound fine
16:54:36cfpanyway :)
16:54:46bertrikcan you just copy the game and worry only about the name and not the game itself?
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16:58:29cfpI'd say yes. The name Mastermind is registered, but the game itself is an old one (see bulls & cows). Plus, there are many implementation of mastermind on the web.
16:59:07rasherbertrik: As far as I understand it, you can. Unless patents are involved
16:59:50bertrikcfp, bulls & cows is not exactly the same as mastermind IIUC, it would be a great opportunity to use 'moo' somewhere in the plugin name though
17:00:14*gevaerts votes for "beginnerbrain"
17:00:49rasherbertrik: As far as I can tell, they're exactly the same game, just with colours instead of numbers, and white and black bits instead of bulls and cows
17:01:32rasherAh, b&c seems to be played with two games in parallel
17:02:37gevaertsrockbull & cowbox?
17:02:48 Quit Rondom (Client Quit)
17:02:59cfprasher: mastermind exists in two-players versions (mastermind ultimate)
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17:04:00amiconnkugel: Using _REPEAT in action names sounds rather counter-intuitive
17:04:22rasherAnyway, it's not important *which* name is picked, just some name
17:04:39cfpabout copyrights,
17:04:51amiconnActions should be named for what they do, not how they technically work
17:05:23amiconnAlso, not all targets will have QUIT on a repeating button
17:05:25kugelwhat they do depends on the plugin
17:05:50cfpgevaerts: codemoo?
17:05:57kugeland plugins that use pla, might want to know how the actions work
17:06:03*cfp doesn't like "beginnerbrain"
17:06:09cfpmoobox is great :)
17:06:22amiconnThen don't use generic actions in the first place. This is one reason why PLA worked out as bad as we have it now
17:06:35kugeljust because of the names?
17:06:42kugelsorry, I don't accept that
17:07:08kugelpla is especially fine for plugins that make very little use of buttons, such as most demos
17:07:10amiconnNo, because of trying to force-fit what doesn't really fit
17:07:30kugelthe current pla is bad, not the rework I'm doing
17:07:40kugelit *will* fit for many plugins
17:08:15amiconnPLA only works for things which fit a standard scheme 100%. If it doesn't, don't bend the scheme, but use individual actions. Doing otherwise only causes badness
17:08:41kugelthat's correct
17:08:50amiconnSeveral plugins have been in unusable state because of this, and some still are
17:08:56kugelhence the rework
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17:09:30kugelI'm really not trying to force-fit it to plugins were it doesn't make sense
17:09:52amiconnYeah, but then something like CANCEL_REPEAT doesn't make any sense imo
17:10:31amiconnCANCEL is an action, and QUIT is another. You cannot cancel something repeatedly, because once it's cancelled, there is nothing to cancel anymore
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17:10:50pixelmakugel: for after the rework - I don't think bubbles should stay a PLA plugin. It makes sense to have shoot on "Up" on the Ondio, not the select action which is on the Mode button now (the better choice if you need all directions)
17:10:53kugelthere's not going to be a CANCEL_REPEAT if you read back a bit
17:11:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:11:47kugelpixelma: that's fine with me, the same basically applies for the samsungs
17:12:33pixelmausing the "Up" button could make sense on other targets too (e.g. the H10)
17:12:42kugel(even worse, there's no 5th button in the front)
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17:14:20kugelthere's probably room for a SHOOT_WITH_UP for some targets. That slightly defeats the purpose of PLA, but is still way better than defining all buttons for each target seperately
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17:15:51pixelmaok, tested the patch by the way (until it broke recently with the addition of some targets) and plugins work better than before, even metronome (as you can play back and adjust - but it still doesn't have the full functionality like it had before because now tapping won't work)
17:16:45pixelmathe problems with button repeat that I had in previous patches were gone
17:18:04kugelIt probably won't work for metronome
17:18:24pixelmawhat won't work?
17:18:34pixelmaI agree
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17:19:41rasherPlease, no more *box or rock* plugins..
17:19:54kugelyou need tap and play/pause, either is quite bad on a _REPEAT button
17:21:13kugeltap on select (with BUTTON_REL attached), and play/pause on select_repeat is the only thing I can imagine to work a bit
17:22:50pixelmathe plugin is qite old and I think it worked on the Ondio before with
17:23:34pixelmatapping and playing. Before it was switched to PLA, I mean
17:24:29kugelI'll upload another patch today or tomorrow (hopefully), giving metronome and pla a last chance
17:27:58pixelmahmm... I think the controls were different. If I remember correctly you didn't have to start playing it did that automatically (or always played so to speak) and a tap would still change the rhythm
17:28:25n1srasher: why?
17:30:20kugelrasher: go for it, I hate the .05 spacing
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17:35:29cfprasher: -moobox +codebuster
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17:40:31kugelcodebuster is ok
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18:06:45rasherIt'd be nice if people would test this FM region patch in FS #9824 (latest one)
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18:07:38rasherI've tested on e200, and the frequency range and step values are correct at least.
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18:18:11bertrikseems to work fine here on my clip too
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18:21:01bertrikUnhelpful, can you have a look at ?
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18:22:13bertrikI think you originally wrote this, there seems to be a bug in a function that is never used, we might as well just remove the function then
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20:31:50TheCoolGmanHi I posted the same thing 3 times but my friends computer is lagging
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22:27:07CIA-6New commit by dreamlayers (r22211): Fix FS #10476. Prevent FLAC bitrate calculation overflow with large files. The watermark depends on the bitrate, and so this also fixes playback pauses ...
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22:54:45Mode"#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:54:50Topic"Rockbox 3.3 has been released | Please read before speaking: | Please direct off/msg topic/social chat to #rockbox-community" by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
22:54:56Mode"#rockbox -o Zagor " by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
22:55:52ZagorI don't suppose anyone know where roolku is hiding? his unrestarted build clients are filling the logs...
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22:58:37LloreanJust wanted to report that the problem I'd mentioned some time ago with weird inaccuracies in seeking in MP3 is apparently fixed.
22:59:02*Bagder blames lear for that! ;-)
22:59:28LloreanYeah, me too. :)
23:00:13LloreanThis will make "rewind on unplug" actually usable for me
23:00:29LloreanIt was a bit disconcerting having it jump half a minute forward each time the cable was unplugged
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