#rockbox 2009-08-08

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#rockbox log for 2009-08-08

00:00:49		Join truthtaco_ [0] (n=truthtac@adsl-74-13-50.aby.bellsouth.net)
00:02:49		Quit Zarggg (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:09:06	CIA-6	New commit by kugel (r22196): Finally tag the PP bootloader v6 release, excluding the new'ish PP samsungs though since a bit of code will be needed to be touched
00:11:29	JdGordon\|	kugel: in all serious though... the reason customvp didnt go in for 3.3 was that we ran out of time before the commit... just looking at the dates, unless it goes in in the next fortnight we are going to end up having the same arguments about how soon before release we can allow it to go in...
00:11:55	*	JdGordon\| is still not entirely conviced 3 month cycle works well...
00:12:30	kugel	JdGordon\|: sadly though I had exams three weeks ago, and finally a bit of free time for doing vacations since then
00:12:44		Quit petur (Remote closed the connection)
00:14:28	kugel	I don't think I need to justify myself for vistiting some relatives after 4 month of uni stress
00:14:47		Quit DarkSpectrum ()
00:15:22		Quit captainkwel ("Page closed")
00:15:25	JdGordon\|	...
00:15:53	gevaerts	kugel: nobody is blaming you for anything...
00:16:29	kugel	fine then :)
00:17:17		Quit TruthTaco (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:18:19	kugel	JdGordon\|: but yea, I'm feeling a bit guilty for not doing much on it recently
00:19:15	saratoga_	I don't see why we need to rush to get things into releases, just commit them when they're ready
00:19:48	kugel	I don't think we can talk of rushing in this case
00:19:49		Join DarkSpectrum [0] (n=ZX@c-67-167-179-42.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
00:20:02	CIA-6	New commit by bluebrother (r22197): Fix rbutil build on w32.
00:20:16		Quit Zagor ("Clint excited")
00:21:16		Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.)
00:21:25		Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:22:04	kugel	JdGordon\|: speaking of releases, what's about your RB_RELEASE patch?
00:23:07	JdGordon\|	I guess it works fine... I wanted to do more with the perl scripts that are in svn already, but accidently nuked my tree so havnt touched it since :p
00:23:20	JdGordon\|	the code part should be fine to commit thoguh.. unless someone has a better idea how to do it
00:23:49	saratoga_	bluebrother: can you commit the YH rbutil patch?
00:25:20	bluebrother	saratoga_: is it likely to be supported in the next Rockbox release? I'm not sure how we should deal with targets that are not-supported-yet
00:25:44	saratoga_	bluebrother: probably, but are you planning to build a new rbutil for that release anyway?
00:25:54	kugel	I think it will be supported, at least the yh925 I own
00:26:32	bluebrother	ok, so the specific player (not model) owned by kugel will be supported :P
00:26:47	saratoga_	actually is there any reason not to add players to rbutil even if they're unsupported?
00:27:05	bluebrother	I haven't planned to build a new rbutil for 3.4, but if we add support for new models we kinda need to
00:27:14	kugel	I don't see a problem with rbutil identifying not supported daps
00:27:59	bluebrother	well, not really, but the question is how we want to deal with players that are not on the list of supported players. Having support in rbutil might imply they are officially supported, which might be a bad implication for end-users.
00:28:26	bluebrother	hence the question how we want to deal with that. I have no problems supporting players that are not supported in rbutil (what a sentence :)
00:28:26	saratoga_	it won't install until we release a bootloader, and that won't happen until its officially supported
00:28:46	saratoga_	so at worst they can put in an unsupported player and it won't install rockbox, same as now :)
00:29:02	bluebrother	which means we'd get bug reports about the bootloader not installing properly :/
00:29:21	saratoga_	we get dumb error reports all the time, they can be closed
00:29:25	saratoga_	takes like 10 seconds
00:29:44	kugel	exactly
00:30:18	saratoga_	imo this is not a good reason to delay committing good code
00:31:37	bluebrother	well, closing dumb error reports takes time, so it's additional noise. Nothing I'd like to get more about, really. Which takes us to the question about the amount of noise we're likely to get, and if the amount of noise is worth it.
00:32:41	saratoga_	do they really impact you? usually things like this are just closed by random developers who have the RSS feed setup
00:34:11	bluebrother	no, they don't impact me personally. As I said, I generally have no problem with supporting players that are not marked as supported yet. If people think the additional noise is not an issue: fine.
00:34:16	kugel	I don't think closing a meaningless bug report once in a while is a problem
00:35:03	bluebrother	the reason for not committing that patch was simply that I wanted to have that cleared up first.
00:35:13	saratoga_	oh ok
00:35:17	gevaerts	kugel: when do you think they will be ready to be supported?
00:35:40	kugel	they basically are (not the 920)
00:35:45	saratoga_	i think they're ready now, aside from rbutil and the bootloaders
00:36:02	bluebrother	what's left about the bootloaders?
00:36:11	gevaerts	so why not release a bootloader now, and avoid this entire rbutil-and-unsupported-targets problem?
00:36:12		Quit DarkSpectrum (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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00:36:58	saratoga_	we'll need to test it
00:37:13	saratoga_	or at least i think the tradition is to let people use bootloaders for a while before we release them
00:37:15	kugel	they actually as stable as all PP targets, and even have USB. There's little to do about them (keymaps and recording, nothing else comes into my mind right now)
00:37:47	kugel	though, I think they're going to have the same USB problems as HD ipods
00:38:02	kugel	that's just a guess, I haven't done any testing
00:38:14	saratoga_	you mean asking permission to charge?
00:38:16	CIA-6	New commit by gevaerts (r22198): recalibrate the samsung yhxxx builds since they have plugins now
00:38:48	kugel	saratoga: no, not getting enough energy when the HD is spinning
00:39:01	saratoga_	well same thing
00:39:18	kugel	I couldn't parse permission to charge then
00:39:24	saratoga_	though i don't understand why this isn't a problem on the sansas?
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00:39:48	bluebrother	ok, that sounds fairly complete.
00:39:49		Quit Galois ("Leaving")
00:40:02	gevaerts	saratoga_: it has nothing to do with the USB side of things (although that isn't perfect by any means), but everything with actually enabling the charger
00:40:18		Quit StealthyXIIGer (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:40:21	*	bluebrother searches for some ipodpatcher scsi-inquiry changes he made to make it actually work on w32 some while back
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00:40:40	saratoga_	how is "getting enough energy when the HD is spinning" releated to the charger enable?
00:41:12	kugel	no idea, I just heard ipids die if they aren't charged enough and the HD is constantly spinning
00:41:22	kugel	ipods too
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00:41:59	gevaerts	It looks to me as if the ipods are actually always powered from battery
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00:42:59	saratoga_	if the only problem is the GPIO for the charger (or whatever enables it) I don't think thats a big problem
00:43:04	linuxstb	bluebrother: The code I committed doesn't work on w32?
00:43:22	saratoga_	that will at least mean it won't die when connected to the PC, even if it doesn't charge
00:43:31	*	JdGordon\| sees a clip patch on the tracker to make playback better!
00:43:36	gevaerts	saratoga_: FS #8802 has the details
00:43:49	saratoga_	i've read that task before
00:43:50	kugel	JdGordon\|: FS?
00:44:01	saratoga_	IIRC the problem was that no one was comfortable enabling charging without knowing more
00:44:04	bluebrother	linuxstb: no, but it's the same issue I debugged back the time you started it: the DeviceIoControl sometimes returns more data, with the additional data being garbage.
00:44:05	JdGordon\|	10495
00:44:18	kugel	the feed is too slow
00:44:56	JdGordon\|	-sf email ftw :p
00:45:19	kugel	I don't think that's the proper solution, or it hides the real bug
00:45:38	kugel	we also had success at the devcon with slightly reducing the codec buffer and putting the stack into iram
00:45:54	JdGordon\|	is the playback issues only with mp3? I cant say I've noticed which codecs have been problematic
00:46:04	linuxstb	bluebrother: Check the IRC logs - 20090315 at 14.43.14
00:46:51	saratoga_	its not just mp3
00:46:58	saratoga_	and anyway mp3 uses hardly any codec memory
00:46:59	linuxstb	bluebrother: pastebin with your changes has expired though... :(
00:47:04		Quit TSS_Killer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:47:19	saratoga_	all that patch is doing is shuffling things around in memory
00:47:33	saratoga_	so that whatever gets stepped on doesn't matter
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00:47:47	kugel	saratoga: on the clip, everything is in iram
00:48:04	saratoga_	yeah i know
00:48:05	kugel	even if mp3 moves much stuff to iram, it's the same
00:48:40	kugel	on the clip there isn't even a sort of CODEC_IRAM #define
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00:49:04	saratoga_	yes I know
00:49:52		Quit ender` (" With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they")
00:50:07	*	kugel just closed a stupid bug report, without feeling harassed or something :p
00:52:54	kugel	saratoga: giving codecs more could change something though
00:53:22	saratoga_	thats what I said 6 minutes ago
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00:55:14	kugel	it sounded to me as you said it wouldn't change anything
00:56:44	kugel	+if
00:57:18	saratoga_	i mean that its shuffling around the contents of memory, so whatever is getting corrupted is apparently less important to playback
00:57:54		Quit JdGordon\| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00:58:23	CIA-6	New commit by bluebrother (r22199): Fix SCSI inquiry on W32. ...
00:59:08		Quit saratoga_ ("Page closed")
01:00
01:00:13	bluebrother	Bagder: the build system runs on rbutil/ commits as well. Intended?
01:00:54	gevaerts	bluebrother: there's no filtering yet
01:01:54	bluebrother	ah, ok.
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01:02:39	pera	hi \o
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01:03:46	bluebrother	ho o/
01:06:48		Quit saratoga ("Page closed")
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01:09:52	bluebrother	hmm. Why does the samsung patch hold two bootloader file filenames for the YH-920?
01:10:39	bluebrother	this won't work, as there's only one location the bootloader file can get put at.
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01:14:03	kugel	bluebrother: not sure. I just know that /SYSTEM/FW_YH925.mi4 is correct for my yh925 and the existing /SYSTEM/FW_YH925.mi4 needs to be renamed to OF.mi4 (for dual boot)
01:17:26	daseinhorn	Hi! I have a SAMSUNG YH-J70J mp3 player that I am attempting to "recycle" for use under Linux. It is not listed among the supported players, however some other Samsung players are listed as supported. I would like to know if you guys think that Rockbox will be compatible with my player. Thanks!
01:17:50	Mikachu	if the exact model isn't there, it won't work
01:18:24	kugel	bluebrother: PP5020.mi4 doesn't work here
01:19:31	daseinhorn	Ok. Just out of a wild guess, do you know of any other firmware alternatives? The current firmware of the player is only compatible with WinXP and Windows media player 10, which is very restrictive and unconvenient.
01:19:31		Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:20:11	bluebrother	kugel: ok, but this means a bit of additional work is necessary to support that bootloader naming "model".
01:20:58	kugel	really? it's the same file you can after make'ing the bootloader
01:21:18	kugel	I thought rbutil would download a FW_YH925.mi4 from our download servers
01:25:43	bluebrother	well, it could do that. We still need to know where to place the downloaded file, and the download does put it into a temporary file so we need to pass the filename explicitly.
01:26:42	bluebrother	at least need to give that a closer look
01:27:48	kugel	bluebrother: how's it done for the H10?
01:30:24	bluebrother	I can't see any special handling for the H10 though I remember that there was some once. Maybe there's a bug ...
01:30:53	bluebrother	or I'm somewhat blind right now.
01:31:50	kugel	bluebrother: it's the same installation procedure
01:33:59	bluebrother	gnaaah! yh_920 as modelname, but yh920 for the svn builds :(
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01:35:32	bluebrother	Bagder: should rbutil use the new download locations in the future or stick to the old paths?
01:35:37	JdGordon_	change the model name...
01:36:15	bluebrother	we really need to clean up this naming mess in general
01:36:17	kugel	the new pathes are mad imo
01:36:28	bluebrother	what's mad about those?
01:37:08	kugel	they aren't as one would expect
01:37:38	kugel	I mean, they're fine, but the old pathes should at least get a "v6" symlink to it
01:37:41	bluebrother	I don't expect anything special here, so I can't see anything different to my expectations
01:37:48	bluebrother	v6 symlink?
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01:38:04	bluebrother	I'm talking about svn builds, not bootloader builds
01:38:45	kugel	ah, sorry, I somehow thought you talked about the bootloader pathes (which also changed for PP)
01:38:59		Quit daseinhorn (Remote closed the connection)
01:39:07	bluebrother	they did? Didn't spot that.
01:39:28	gevaerts	kugel: IIRC those will be corrected
01:40:05		Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
01:42:20	kugel	bluebrother: PP v6 bootloaders are here: http://download.rockbox.org/pp-bootloaders/ (instead of http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/)
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01:54:27	DarkSpectrum	anyway.... so what's the name gonna be, WTS ?
01:54:58	*	DarkSpectrum fires up his outline to make final notes
01:55:41	linuxstb	DarkSpectrum: You're talking about the radio screen?
01:55:47	DarkSpectrum	yep
01:55:48	kugel	DarkSpectrum: I think that a) we have time to decide on that and b) whoever gets around commiting decides that :)
01:56:05	DarkSpectrum	otay...
01:56:48	DarkSpectrum	btw, what all from the tuner did you want moved into firmware?
01:57:15	kugel	nothing I think
01:57:45	DarkSpectrum	JdGordon was wanting something moved, but i don't know what all he wanted
01:57:52	kugel	I haven't looked at the code, but firmware/ is generally for target dependant code
01:58:24	kugel	unless it's an #ifdef hell, everthing should be in apps (IMO)
01:58:53	DarkSpectrum	thats where i've moved it all is to /apps/tuner
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02:02:39	CIA-6	New commit by bluebrother (r22200): Move download link pattern description to rbutil.ini. ...
02:02:46	DarkSpectrum	on another note, which target has the largest screen size?
02:03:26	bluebrother	for supported targets the beast. IIRC.
02:03:54	linuxstb	The beast isn't supported, is it?
02:03:54		Quit bertrik (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:04:06	bluebrother	there's some touchscreen target with a larger resolution but I can't remember which it was. Or are you talking about the physical screen size?
02:04:25	bluebrother	ah, right. Beast is still not officially supported.
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02:04:45	linuxstb	But that's still just 240x320 - same as the Gigabeat F (and ipod video)
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02:05:08	*	bluebrother stands corrected
02:05:19	DarkSpectrum	damn internet
02:05:33	DarkSpectrum	i ment largest pixel size
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02:07:40	bluebrother	I guess that would be some old archos player though that has a small resolution. Why are you asking?
02:08:07	DarkSpectrum	to test some screen's on i want the largest and smallest
02:08:23	ej0rge	bluebrother: the mr500i is 640x480 but can't play video
02:08:34	linuxstb	DarkSpectrum: Are you asking which devices have the highest and lowest resolutions (total number of pixels) ?
02:08:40	DarkSpectrum	yes
02:09:13	linuxstb	Then smallest is Archos (112x64), largest is Gigabeat (240x320) or ipod video (320x240)
02:09:27	DarkSpectrum	cool, ty
02:09:38	linuxstb	Don't forget remote LCDs as well - 128x64 is common (I think)
02:09:38	bluebrother	if you don't count the charcell display of the player ;-)
02:09:41	DarkSpectrum	thought there was at least 1 with 640x480 though
02:09:58	ej0rge	Yes, the m:robe mr500i is 640x480
02:10:08	ej0rge	but you can also run it at 320x240
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02:10:48	DarkSpectrum	500i is not supported yet though, right?
02:11:09	*	linuxstb remembers the ipod video and gigabeat (F) don't have radio...
02:11:25	saratoga	although theres a radio accessory patch for the video on the tracker now
02:11:29		Quit GeekShad__ ("The cake is a lie !")
02:12:12	ej0rge	DarkSpectrum: No, not supported. Getting functional, though
02:12:17	ej0rge	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/OlympusMR500Info
02:12:21	*	bluebrother decides to call it a day. 'nite guys.
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02:12:27	DarkSpectrum	i might as well use that rez then
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02:13:42	iNobue	I've an iPod.. nano? 4gb, and it just fails to install boot loader.
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02:14:35	linuxstb	"it" ? And what generation Nano?
02:14:40	iNobue	Uhh.
02:14:42	iNobue	Nooot sure.
02:15:05	linuxstb	Look here - http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1353
02:16:01	iNobue	2nd gen.
02:16:18	linuxstb	Now look here - http://www.rockbox.org/
02:17:04	iNobue	Oh.
02:17:05	iNobue	Laaame.
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03:32:41	JohnTeddy	What is the best low cost audio player to buy, that runs rockbox. Something with a good $ per gig rate.
03:34:59	TruthTaco	i dont have a HD based player but ive heard the ipod video is good
03:35:48	TruthTaco	theres a buyers guide on the website though
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03:39:10	JohnTeddy	I said 'low cost', apple is expensive. anything good flash based?
03:39:38	saratoga	JohnTeddy: check the buyers guide
03:41:51	TruthTaco	I have a Sansa Fuze and its a pretty nice flash based
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04:19:25	JohnTeddy	TruthTaco: Does rockbox support that? I thought the fuze wasn't supported yet.
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04:20:22	TruthTaco	its not offically supported yet, but there is an unsupported test build ive been using so far havent had any problems.
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06:27:43	amagee	hey i've just installed the latest rockbox on my ipod; how can i get it to randomly shuffle through my entire collection?
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06:34:19	TruthTaco	check the rockbox manual
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06:54:11	amagee	oh.. i still need to create a playlist containing everything in order to shuffle?
06:55:38	amagee	i looked up the 'shuffle' section in the manual and it says as much, linking to a section on making playlists which is apparently "halp written" with "possible errors"
06:55:43	amagee	*half
06:57:50	TruthTaco	well i dont use the feature, but i think you might have to make a playlist with all your songs and then shuffle it
06:58:09	amagee	TruthTaco: any hints on how to do that
06:58:35	TruthTaco	id tell you if i knew, but i know about as much as you
06:58:42	amagee	ah i see
06:58:58	TruthTaco	like i said, i dont even use shuffle, or havent yet anyways
06:59:03	amagee	ok
06:59:43	TruthTaco	http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8339
06:59:48	TruthTaco	there you go
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07:00:03	amagee	yeah i read that a few years ago, which is why i stopped using rockbox
07:00:12	amagee	but someone just told me it had changed a lot so i thought i'd try it again
07:00:24	TruthTaco	ah
07:00:30	TruthTaco	dunno
07:00:50	scorche	what are you trying to do?
07:01:14	amagee	shuffle everything.. like the default apple firmware does
07:02:01	scorche	then just add everything into a playlist shuffled or if you use the database have shuffle on and click on a song
07:02:37	amagee	scorche: how do i "have shuffle on"
07:02:40	scorche	i usually just long press on my music folder and hit insert shuffled
07:02:47	scorche	turn the shuffle setting on?
07:02:58	scorche	have you read the manual?...it gives lots of good info on stuff like this..
07:03:28	amagee	kind of
07:03:57	TruthTaco	on the song playing screen you can press down and it brings up something that lets you shuffle
07:03:59	amagee	it's quite difficult
07:04:12	TruthTaco	long down press
07:04:21	TruthTaco	dunno if thats what your looking for though
07:04:36	scorche	amagee: what is quite difficult?
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07:05:12	amagee	the manual
07:05:33	amagee	ok i think i've figured it out now
07:05:56	scorche	the manual is difficult?
07:06:38	amagee	well, i looked up shuffle, it started referring to playlists and took me to a section which it described as "half written" and "may have errors"
07:07:18	scorche	everything in rockbox is a playlist
07:07:43	amagee	ok
07:08:17	scorche	whether you know it or not, every time you click on a song, an album, etc, a playlist is made
07:09:18	amagee	ok
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07:29:03	AJzer	I'm trying to reformat my 5.5 gen 80gb using mtools. However, I'm getting errors "drive a: not supported"), and I set up the config file as instructed.
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07:32:40	AJzer	I've had exactly this problem: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/9568
07:33:25	AJzer	and noticing the partition size was off, I thought I might try mtools old way of formatting. Haven't been able to get past the above mformat error, though.
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08:22:57	tmzt	AJzer_: mformat -i /dev/device :: should work
08:23:06	tmzt	it default to drive a (in mtools.conf)
08:23:45	tmzt	I would suggest using mkfs.vfat or mkdosfs -F 32 though
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09:21:41	CIA-6	New commit by kkurbjun (r22201): M:Robe 500: Make yes/no screen work better and add appropriate strings for some screens. Rockboy: Improve m:robe 500 default keymap.
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10:08:37	linuxstb	bertrik: Have you noticed any strings referring to the Whimory in your Samsung player? In the Nano2G there are things like c:\bwa\N36Firmware-38\srcroot\Firmware\Shared\Services\hwapi\soc\samsung\nand\Whimory2_1\core\VFL\VFLBuffer.c
10:08:39	CIA-6	New commit by nls (r22202): Remove old fixme, the 'working with playlists' seems to be in pretty good shape
10:09:14	bertrik	linuxstb, yes, I looked quite extensively at the FTL now
10:09:39	bertrik	the Whimory signature in my samsung player is "220W"
10:09:44	linuxstb	Do you actually have raw NAND reading working?
10:09:57	bertrik	this is not the same as in the openiboot code
10:10:17	bertrik	linuxstb, I can download NAND contents using a windows Samsung tool
10:10:45	bertrik	I mean transfer from player to computer
10:10:47	linuxstb	Ah, so that's the raw NAND, not the results of the FTL?
10:12:00	bertrik	yes I think so, the utility allows me to choose between "main" and "spare" NAND and also between ECC on or off
10:12:14	bertrik	I can find the primary and secondary bootloaders in the NAND
10:12:34	linuxstb	So there's no NOR flash?
10:13:06	bertrik	I don't think so, although in the primary bootloader I found some strings referring to NOR Flash
10:14:35	linuxstb	Did you get anywhere booting a main Rockbox build on your Meizu? I have some code I wrote for the Nano2G, and am wondering if I should try and clean it up and commit, or if you have something better.
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10:15:22	bertrik	I haven't looked at the meizu much the past two weeks, I've basically done nothing except some minor stuff in the lcd driver
10:16:42	bertrik	What did you write?
10:17:23	linuxstb	Not much really, just an app.lds, some changes (I think) to crt0.S, and added some missing function stubs
10:17:50	bertrik	I would like to clean up the s5l8700 PCM code a bit
10:18:12	bertrik	I think some of the #ifdefs could go if we just updated the divisors table
10:18:17	linuxstb	My Nano2G was freezing somewhere in the init functions, and I couldn't debug where... I've got a feeling the stack was being corrupted somewhere.
10:19:00	linuxstb	bertrik: Yes, I didn't really intend to commit my changes - it was an accident... But as they were there, I left them.
10:19:23	bertrik	ok
10:20:10	bertrik	you're using the third PLL to generate the MCLK frequency, right? I wonder if this PLL is also available in the meizus
10:20:25	linuxstb	I thought I was using the same as you?
10:22:04	linuxstb	I think the Nano's OF (or diagmode) was using the third PLL, but I changed it to the same as the Meizu.
10:22:13	linuxstb	Both seem to work fine.
10:22:36	bertrik	hm, you're right, don't know where I got that
10:22:54	linuxstb	Maybe you saw an earlier version of my patch - that used the third PLL
10:23:26	*	linuxstb leaves, back later...
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10:39:56	TheCoolGman	It's amazing how the current build source is still r21932
10:41:14	TheCoolGman	WHY IS THE SOURCE ON THE DAILY BUILD STILL r21932!?
10:42:10	TheCoolGman	I mean daily build
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10:43:16	bertrik	do you want to know why? or do you want to get the latest code?
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11:24:45	CIA-6	New commit by bertrik (r22203): Samsung yp-s3: clean up the lcd and button driver (making things static, rename variables etc.)
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13:13:45	n1s	pixelma: what do you think of FS #10491 ? is it obvious what a "keyclick" is or should that be explained?
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13:19:46	pixelma	hmm... my first thought was that if there should be an explanantion then more along the lines of "you'll here a click sound on every key press" or so. I think that would be more descriptive in case someone doesn't understand the word itself (?)
13:20:43	n1s	that's what i thought too, "keyclick" isn't terribly descriptive (and might be confused with the piezo click the ipod OF uses)
13:20:44	tmzt	I think it's pretty evident, at least in English
13:21:05	tmzt	is this on changing selection in a menu?
13:21:39	n1s	it's on button press
13:22:52	pixelma	tmzt: this is for a description of a setting in the manual (if that's what you asked)
13:23:06	tmzt	oh, in the manual
13:23:12	tmzt	not in the user interface itself
13:23:47	Mikachu	i think it wouldn't hurt to mention it
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13:54:45	cfp	Hello world :)
13:55:31	cfp	I've created a mastermind plugin ; would anybody accept to test it?
13:56:19	tmzt	a c plugin?
13:56:32	pixelma	is it in the tracker?
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13:56:36	tmzt	some reason for that? html would work I imagine
13:57:06	pixelma	tmzt: huh, in Rockbox?
13:57:14	tmzt	oh sorry
13:57:32	tmzt	very tired, I thought this was the webos channel
13:57:54	tmzt	fun game though
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14:02:13	gevaerts	tmzt: please don't recommend dosfstools for 5.5G ipods. It creates filesystems that rockbox doesn't deal with corretly on 2048-byte sectors
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14:05:02	cfp	pixelma: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10497
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14:08:31	pixelma	hmm, guess it only draw rectangles for the pieces? I'm asking because I once made a mockup how it could work on the Archos screens (patterns instead of colours so external bitmaps would work better, and it would need horizontal scrolling I guess). This could be added later though I guess... ;)
14:08:56	pixelma	lots of guessing...
14:09:29	cfp	pixelma: indeed, it only draws rectangles.
14:09:55	cfp	I thought it would make a basis to start with
14:09:58	tmzt	gevaerts: okay, so mtools is recommended?
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14:10:19	gevaerts	tmzt: yes. That's why it says so om the wiki
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14:12:03	pixelma	cfp: yes, that's true - logic of the game and drawing are two seperate things
14:12:10	pixelma	or can be
14:12:48	cfp	the good thing with rectangles is that it fits on all screens (at least on color LCDs). Using bitmap for the pieces would look wierd on small screens (or we could make different pieces for different screen sizes)
14:12:52	CIA-6	New commit by bluebrother (r22204): Clean up some debug output, kill some trailing spaces and break some overly long lines.
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14:16:19	*	gevaerts wonders if calling it "mastermind" is a good idea
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14:18:15	cfp	gevaerts: copyright problems? I couldn't really think of another name... Maybe "mming" or something with "code" inside? (codebreaker? yuck :s)
14:18:48	gevaerts	cfp: trademark things, yes.
14:18:57	cfp	sure
14:18:59	pixelma	rockmind or masterbox of course ;)
14:19:20	cfp	pixelma: =D
14:19:40	cfp	I think they have a mastermind in CHDK though
14:20:00	*	cfp realizes that CHDK must have 100 times less users than rockbox :)
14:21:37	pixelma	in Germany that game was called (translated back) "Superbrain" by some manufacturers
14:21:57	*	domonoky suggests: "Hyperbrain" :-)
14:21:59	cfp	hmmm
14:22:16	cfp	in France the name is "mastermind"
14:22:28	cfp	bulls and cows?
14:22:49	cfp	it's not really a bulls and cows game though
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14:28:51	CIA-6	New commit by bluebrother (r22205): Support libusb-1.0. ...
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14:50:29	CIA-6	New commit by teru (r22206): snake:go back to menu when game is over. save highscores using pluginlib highscore.
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15:04:52	*	domonoky needs someone with perl knowledge to modify genlang.cgi, so it can handle revisions like: "3.3" for building voicefiles in rbutil for rockbox releases !
15:06:04	CIA-6	New commit by Domonoky (r22207): rbutil: try to fix voicefile creation for releases. (genlang.cgi still needs fixing).
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15:33:29	CIA-6	New commit by teru (r22208): snake2: add standard start menu. use pluginlib highscore for highscores.
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15:44:09	CIA-6	New commit by teru (r22209): fix red: add a define accidentally removed
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16:00
16:02:14	cfp	Hello world (again) :)
16:03:12	cfp	Question about PLA: should pluginlib_action be used in plugins or not? I saw it had been removed from some plugins...
16:09:30	n1s	"maybe" :)
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16:10:33	*	cfp is ?-)
16:10:55	kugel	cfp: no, it's not going to be removed, but replaced with something more simple
16:11:33	kugel	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10387
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16:14:33	cfp	kugel: I see; yet, for my plugin (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10497), should I use for now the old pluginlib_actions, or just wait for the new one to be commited?
16:15:03	kugel	how many actions do you need?
16:15:56	cfp	7
16:16:01	kugel	the new pla will give 4 directions, select, and and cancel
16:16:15	cfp	Exit, Menu, Select, Up/Down/Left/Right
16:16:18	kugel	including repeat, that is
16:16:32	cfp	no menu then ?
16:16:44	kugel	exit could be moved into the menu, I'd think
16:16:59	cfp	yet there is no key to directly exit the plugin ?
16:17:12	kugel	I don't think that desperately needed
16:17:13	pixelma	I find it nice to also be able to quit directly
16:18:09	cfp	Feels strange to me that the same button used for turning the music off and going back to the menu (power on gigabeat f) just opens a menu in plugins...
16:18:36	cfp	I mean, on gigabeat for example, there are buttons labeled power and menu, used for exiting and showing a menu
16:18:38	kugel	i find it nice also, but I'd rather use pla than making dozens of target specific keymaps just for that
16:18:57	cfp	isn't there enough buttons on all targets?
16:19:03	kugel	right
16:19:12	pixelma	huh?
16:20:19	*	bertrik wonders what to do with FS #10447
16:20:24	cfp	pixelma: I meant that if the exit button is used for menus on gigabeat, it will contradict its overall behaviour in the rest of rockbox (turn the music off and return to the home menu)
16:21:41	bertrik	it basically only changes comments that were too long to fit in 80 characters, it doesn't fix or change actual code
16:21:48	kugel	cfp: you could use PLA_CANCEL_REPEAT for directly exiting, but I'm still worried if that might lead to accidental power offs if PLA_CANCEL happens to be the same button as the normal power off one
16:22:03	pixelma	four directions, select, menu and quit could even be mapped to the Ondio (either menu on a long press of the Mode button, or on a short Off with long Off being quit
16:22:10	cfp	kugel: sure
16:23:34	pixelma	but: if there is anything special about the controls, I'd prefer to have the mapping in the plugin itself, much easier to adjust to different button layout or limitations
16:23:38	kugel	pixelma: long mode will have SELECT_REPEAT
16:23:44	n1s	i think 4 directions menu, select and quit is the minimum for being useful in anything but the simplest cases
16:24:22	*	cfp agrees with nls :)
16:24:54	kugel	n1s: that's what it's going to be meant for. PLA proved itself that it's useless for more advanced keymappings
16:24:56	pixelma	kugel: long Off then, some plugins do that now (e.g. Sudoku) and I can't remember accidentally turning the Ondio off
16:25:22	kugel	pixelma: long off will be CANCEL_REPEAT
16:25:47	pixelma	and?
16:26:05	rasher	bertrik: Regarding the FM region settings. What was wrong with the solution I suggested? It seems to fullfill the following criteria: 1) Users can easily identify which region they need 2) People aren't suffering needlessly small frequency steps (because of the Italy and Korea regions) 3) There's a catch-all that will work for most also
16:26:10	kugel	uhm, it can't be menu?
16:26:24	bertrik	rasher, I just stopped caring ...
16:26:41	pixelma	kugel: short Off for the menu, long Off for quit
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16:26:49	bertrik	I don't see anything wrong with your suggestion
16:27:00	rasher	Aha
16:27:36	cfp	pixelma: you mean, on targets that do not have a separate menu button?
16:27:50	kugel	pixelma: short of is CANCEL, long off is CANCEL_REPEAT
16:28:01	kugel	all PLA_* get their _REPEAT action
16:28:23	pixelma	what would you need CANCEL_REPEAT for?
16:28:25	bertrik	one tiny thing nagging me about the fm regions is that each driver seems to have its own struct for a region, so you'll have to add regions for each tuner driver
16:28:44	cfp	kugel: isn't it a bit strange that CANCEL opens a menu and CANCEL_REPEAT exits? There is not much about cancelling in this...
16:28:53	kugel	pixelma: what do I know? people requested it
16:29:18	kugel	cfp: it's just the name for the action, don't put too much into that word
16:29:20	pixelma	I think we are talking about different things atm
16:29:29	kugel	I think not
16:29:45	cfp	kugel: hmmm... ok :)
16:30:05	pixelma	I mean map quit to CANCEL_REPEAT and menu to CANCEL - I just used the words for what it would be on the Ondio for it
16:30:19	*	cfp is a bit lost
16:30:24	pixelma	s/words/button names
16:30:24	kugel	cfp: if you read through the task, Llorean wanted it to be called _CANCEL instead of _QUIT
16:30:42	rasher	bertrik: I don't see any reason not to commit FS #10447?
16:30:44	cfp	kugel: ok
16:30:47	kugel	pixelma: that's what I proposed a few minutes ago also
16:30:55	pixelma	sigh
16:31:19	kugel	but we apparently really talked about different things :)
16:31:34	bertrik	rasher, ok, just seems so useless... but it closes a open task! :P
16:31:54	cfp	kugel, pixelma: this solution still is a problem on targets where there are two separate buttons for menu and exit, no?
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16:32:11	kugel	no, it's not going to be seperate
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16:32:45	kugel	cancel and cancel_repeat will be the same button on every target
16:32:54	pixelma	well if you want to have faine grained control over your button mappings, don't use PLA
16:33:01	pixelma	fine too
16:33:36	cfp	hmmm...
16:34:01	kugel	hmm, although, instead of cancel_repeat we could have menu to allow for seperate buttons
16:35:22	cfp	What about having a MENU action, and making it an alias of CANCEL on targets where there is no additional button?
16:35:41	kugel	no, we're definitely not going to do that
16:36:11	cfp	kugel: ?
16:36:32	kugel	that would make pla behave unexpected
16:37:36	pixelma	people would need to know that there won't be a CANCEL_REPEAT action then, where I wouldn't know what it could be used for atm (some example could prove me wrong though)
16:37:45	CIA-6	New commit by bertrik (r22210): Apply FS #10447 - e200v2 lcd driver cleanup by Michael Chicoine
16:38:11	pixelma	I think if it gets complicated again then we could also remove PLA - more work but less trouble
16:39:37	cfp	kugel: Well then why not simply remove CANCEL_REPEAT and have: MENU (CANCEL), and EXIT(CANCEL_REPEAT or EXIT)
16:40:15	kugel	I think I'm going to do that
16:40:30	pixelma	cfp: that's what he meant (if I understood correctly this time..) ;)
16:40:42	*	pixelma apparently did
16:41:24	*	cfp is happy
16:41:28	cfp	yet
16:41:34	*	cfp is a bit slow some times...
16:41:43	cfp	great then
16:42:23	cfp	off-topic: what about rock-hypermind-box then?
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16:44:06	bertrik	dreadful, the whole thing with plugins starting/ending with rock or box is not to be taken too seriously
16:48:42	cfp	bertrik: just jocking, I did read the page that said .box and rock. plugins where getting too numerous :)
16:49:03	rasher	I think there's a good chance mastermind is a trademark
16:49:41	cfp	rasher: indeed, it is :s
16:51:54	cfp	rasher: w/a codebuster?
16:52:03	rasher	Huh?
16:52:27	cfp	rather than mastermind, what about codebuster?
16:52:46	rasher	Ah! Not bad
16:53:35	cfp	trickymind?
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16:54:14	rasher	Both sound fine
16:54:31	cfp	blocks::code?
16:54:36	cfp	anyway :)
16:54:46	bertrik	can you just copy the game and worry only about the name and not the game itself?
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16:58:29	cfp	I'd say yes. The name Mastermind is registered, but the game itself is an old one (see bulls & cows). Plus, there are many implementation of mastermind on the web.
16:59:07	rasher	bertrik: As far as I understand it, you can. Unless patents are involved
16:59:50	bertrik	cfp, bulls & cows is not exactly the same as mastermind IIUC, it would be a great opportunity to use 'moo' somewhere in the plugin name though
17:00
17:00:14	*	gevaerts votes for "beginnerbrain"
17:00:49	rasher	bertrik: As far as I can tell, they're exactly the same game, just with colours instead of numbers, and white and black bits instead of bulls and cows
17:01:32	rasher	Ah, b&c seems to be played with two games in parallel
17:02:37	gevaerts	rockbull & cowbox?
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17:02:59	cfp	rasher: mastermind exists in two-players versions (mastermind ultimate)
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17:04:00	amiconn	kugel: Using _REPEAT in action names sounds rather counter-intuitive
17:04:20	kugel	why?
17:04:22	rasher	Anyway, it's not important which name is picked, just some name
17:04:39	cfp	about copyrights, http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html
17:04:51	amiconn	Actions should be named for what they do, not how they technically work
17:05:23	amiconn	Also, not all targets will have QUIT on a repeating button
17:05:25	kugel	what they do depends on the plugin
17:05:50	cfp	gevaerts: codemoo?
17:05:57	kugel	and plugins that use pla, might want to know how the actions work
17:05:57	gevaerts	moobox!
17:06:03	*	cfp doesn't like "beginnerbrain"
17:06:09	cfp	moobox is great :)
17:06:22	amiconn	Then don't use generic actions in the first place. This is one reason why PLA worked out as bad as we have it now
17:06:35	kugel	just because of the names?
17:06:42	kugel	sorry, I don't accept that
17:07:08	kugel	pla is especially fine for plugins that make very little use of buttons, such as most demos
17:07:10	amiconn	No, because of trying to force-fit what doesn't really fit
17:07:30	kugel	the current pla is bad, not the rework I'm doing
17:07:40	kugel	it will fit for many plugins
17:08:15	amiconn	PLA only works for things which fit a standard scheme 100%. If it doesn't, don't bend the scheme, but use individual actions. Doing otherwise only causes badness
17:08:41	kugel	that's correct
17:08:50	amiconn	Several plugins have been in unusable state because of this, and some still are
17:08:56	kugel	hence the rework
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17:09:30	kugel	I'm really not trying to force-fit it to plugins were it doesn't make sense
17:09:52	amiconn	Yeah, but then something like CANCEL_REPEAT doesn't make any sense imo
17:10:31	amiconn	CANCEL is an action, and QUIT is another. You cannot cancel something repeatedly, because once it's cancelled, there is nothing to cancel anymore
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17:10:50	pixelma	kugel: for after the rework - I don't think bubbles should stay a PLA plugin. It makes sense to have shoot on "Up" on the Ondio, not the select action which is on the Mode button now (the better choice if you need all directions)
17:10:53	kugel	there's not going to be a CANCEL_REPEAT if you read back a bit
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17:11:47	kugel	pixelma: that's fine with me, the same basically applies for the samsungs
17:12:33	pixelma	using the "Up" button could make sense on other targets too (e.g. the H10)
17:12:42	kugel	(even worse, there's no 5th button in the front)
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17:14:20	kugel	there's probably room for a SHOOT_WITH_UP for some targets. That slightly defeats the purpose of PLA, but is still way better than defining all buttons for each target seperately
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17:15:51	pixelma	ok, tested the patch by the way (until it broke recently with the addition of some targets) and plugins work better than before, even metronome (as you can play back and adjust - but it still doesn't have the full functionality like it had before because now tapping won't work)
17:16:45	pixelma	the problems with button repeat that I had in previous patches were gone
17:18:04	kugel	It probably won't work for metronome
17:18:24	pixelma	what won't work?
17:18:27	kugel	pla
17:18:34	pixelma	I agree
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17:19:41	rasher	Please, no more box or rock plugins..
17:19:54	kugel	you need tap and play/pause, either is quite bad on a _REPEAT button
17:21:13	kugel	tap on select (with BUTTON_REL attached), and play/pause on select_repeat is the only thing I can imagine to work a bit
17:22:50	pixelma	the plugin is qite old and I think it worked on the Ondio before with
17:23:34	pixelma	tapping and playing. Before it was switched to PLA, I mean
17:24:29	kugel	I'll upload another patch today or tomorrow (hopefully), giving metronome and pla a last chance
17:27:58	pixelma	hmm... I think the controls were different. If I remember correctly you didn't have to start playing it did that automatically (or always played so to speak) and a tap would still change the rhythm
17:28:25	n1s	rasher: why?
17:30:20	kugel	rasher: go for it, I hate the .05 spacing
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17:35:29	cfp	rasher: -moobox +codebuster
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17:40:31	kugel	codebuster is ok
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18:06:45	rasher	It'd be nice if people would test this FM region patch in FS #9824 (latest one)
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18:07:38	rasher	I've tested on e200, and the frequency range and step values are correct at least.
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18:18:11	bertrik	seems to work fine here on my clip too
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18:21:01	bertrik	Unhelpful, can you have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10496 ?
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18:22:13	bertrik	I think you originally wrote this, there seems to be a bug in a function that is never used, we might as well just remove the function then
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20:31:50	TheCoolGman	Hi I posted the same thing 3 times but my friends computer is lagging
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22:27:07	CIA-6	New commit by dreamlayers (r22211): Fix FS #10476. Prevent FLAC bitrate calculation overflow with large files. The watermark depends on the bitrate, and so this also fixes playback pauses ...
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22:54:45	Mode	"#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:54:50	Topic	"Rockbox 3.3 has been released \| Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines \| Please direct off/msg topic/social chat to #rockbox-community" by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
22:54:56	Mode	"#rockbox -o Zagor " by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
22:55:52	Zagor	I don't suppose anyone know where roolku is hiding? his unrestarted build clients are filling the logs...
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22:58:37	Llorean	Just wanted to report that the problem I'd mentioned some time ago with weird inaccuracies in seeking in MP3 is apparently fixed.
22:59:02	*	Bagder blames lear for that! ;-)
22:59:28	Llorean	Yeah, me too. :)
23:00
23:00:13	Llorean	This will make "rewind on unplug" actually usable for me
23:00:29	Llorean	It was a bit disconcerting having it jump half a minute forward each time the cable was unplugged
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