| 00:00:40 | | Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:00:51 | | Join truthtaco_ [0] (n=truthtac@adsl-67-42-207.aby.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:01:15 | bughunter2 | well, I might wait a while to see if any more changes are made to that image |
| 00:01:25 | bughunter2 | after that I might do the same thing I'm doing now, again |
| 00:01:32 | bughunter2 | then re-ask if they want the images :) |
| 00:02:13 | | Quit TruthTaco (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 00:03:04 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:03:05 | | Quit stripwax__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:04:11 | | Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:05:06 | bughunter2 | bertrik: with the OF in MSC mode, while copying multiple files simultaneously (i.e. with multiple explorer 'Copying' windows) the player sometimes spontaneously quits MSC mode (it's still visible in 'My Computer', but file transfers abort with errors) |
| 00:05:14 | bughunter2 | any thoughts on that? |
| 00:06:20 | bertrik | no, but I think I haven't tried that on my ams players |
| 00:06:22 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:06:27 | bughunter2 | k |
| 00:06:39 | bughunter2 | perhaps a native USB driver could fix that? |
| 00:06:55 | bughunter2 | not sure if it has to do with USB though |
| 00:07:02 | bughunter2 | it would seem odd |
| 00:09:44 | | Quit BdN3504 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 00:11:15 | | Quit n17ikh|Server ("WeeChat 0.2.6.3") |
| 00:13:27 | bughunter2 | rasher: after booting the OF again, suddenly the 'used space' went up again |
| 00:13:33 | | Part domonoky1 |
| 00:14:11 | | Quit NAQOYQATSI (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:14:34 | | Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") |
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| 00:16:18 | | Quit Eosphere46 ("Copywight 2007 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved.") |
| 00:17:20 | | Quit bmbl ("Bye!") |
| 00:21:38 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:26:09 | bughunter2 | rasher: fsck.vfat says 22883 clusters are in use, that's ~90MB, which equals what explorer reports |
| 00:26:15 | bughunter2 | perhaps the OF marks clusters as BAD? |
| 00:26:31 | rasher | Doubtful. |
| 00:26:39 | bughunter2 | hmm |
| 00:27:54 | rasher | But the OF is doing something. Let's leave it at that. Prod the disk all you like |
| 00:28:04 | bughunter2 | yeah |
| 00:28:14 | | Quit ender (" I used to believe in reincarnation, but that was in a previous life.") |
| 00:28:16 | bughunter2 | I'm thinking about checking dosfstools sources, to see how they calculate used clusters |
| 00:31:25 | bughunter2 | think I know, it marks clusters in use in the FAT, but there are no directory entries pointing to those FAT entries |
| 00:31:43 | bughunter2 | probably just to reserve space for itself |
| 00:31:49 | bughunter2 | sounds reasonable.. |
| 00:32:07 | gevaerts | sounds broken... |
| 00:32:13 | bughunter2 | that too |
| 00:33:25 | TheSeven | chkdsk would convert unused clusterchains to "FILExxxx.CHK" when running on a volume with such a mess |
| 00:33:34 | bughunter2 | good point |
| 00:33:36 | bughunter2 | and it didn't |
| 00:33:54 | bughunter2 | so then that would leave one thing: they're marked as bad clusters? |
| 00:34:09 | bughunter2 | that would mean the OF tries to hide some clusters from the 'outside world' |
| 00:36:30 | | Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") |
| 00:36:56 | TheSeven | bughunter2: have you tried a chkdsk /f in a command window? that should print some detailed statistics when it's done... |
| 00:37:01 | bughunter2 | yep |
| 00:37:05 | TheSeven | (including bad block count) |
| 00:37:08 | bughunter2 | it prints "no problems found" |
| 00:37:11 | bughunter2 | ah, good point |
| 00:38:52 | bughunter2 | it doesn't list the bad sectors :o |
| 00:39:00 | bughunter2 | it tells me nothing about that at all |
| 00:39:45 | bughunter2 | hmm? chkdsk /v does list files I don't see in explorer |
| 00:40:09 | bughunter2 | a directory called ##MUSIC# |
| 00:40:21 | TheSeven | well, that could explain some things |
| 00:40:36 | bughunter2 | which contains dirs Music, Photo, Playlists, Video, Service, Service\Rhapsody |
| 00:41:05 | bughunter2 | and also ##PORT#\DeviceIcon.ico and ##PORT#\Object.dat |
| 00:41:06 | TheSeven | can you dump that directory entry, to see why windows doesn't show it? |
| 00:41:08 | bertrik | you'll see those ## directories in rockbox too |
| 00:41:10 | bughunter2 | mostly MTP stuff, I'd think? |
| 00:41:27 | bertrik | IIRC, they have some kind of attribute to make them hidden on most OSs |
| 00:41:35 | bughunter2 | weird? |
| 00:41:45 | bertrik | combination of attributes rather |
| 00:41:46 | bughunter2 | an undocumented attribute bit, then, or? |
| 00:42:03 | bughunter2 | because normally I see all files, even system+hidden+readonly etc. |
| 00:42:51 | bughunter2 | the chkdsk from windows XP x64 won't show any bad block info though |
| 00:43:06 | bughunter2 | bertrik: indeed, I see them in RB :) |
| 00:43:37 | bertrik | I think funman know more about this, I can also vaguely remember reading something about this in the ams sansa forum thread |
| 00:44:19 | bughunter2 | k |
| 00:44:44 | bughunter2 | I don't know the file size of these files, but I don't think they'd be ~90 MB however |
| 00:44:55 | bughunter2 | well, 90-11(rockbox' size)=79, then |
| 00:45:20 | TheSeven | can you cd into these dirs? |
| 00:45:25 | bughunter2 | nope |
| 00:45:27 | bughunter2 | and Debian couldn't show the files either |
| 00:45:33 | TheSeven | that's funny |
| 00:45:39 | * | TheSeven is wondering what they did to them |
| 00:45:52 | TheSeven | can you dump the raw directory entries? |
| 00:46:05 | bughunter2 | I'll make a raw dump in Debian in a sec |
| 00:48:20 | TheSeven | bughunter2: btw, windows tools for such a job would be rohpod or winhex |
| 00:48:43 | bughunter2 | debian is easier for me I think |
| 00:49:01 | bughunter2 | I'm using VirtualBox for it |
| 00:49:09 | TheSeven | well, i wouldn't know how to fish out that directory entry on linux |
| 00:49:26 | bughunter2 | I'm making a dd if=/dev/sda dump of it |
| 00:49:30 | bughunter2 | then analyzing it on windows later :) |
| 00:49:55 | TheSeven | i would have accessed the disk directly using the tools named above... |
| 00:50:14 | bughunter2 | hmm, I may have winhex laying around |
| 00:51:38 | | Quit bertrik ("sleep") |
| 00:51:45 | | Part froggyman |
| 00:51:51 | | Join decayedcell_ [0] (n=decayed_@60-241-92-53.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:52:49 | bughunter2 | TheSeven: found them |
| 00:55:57 | bughunter2 | :O |
| 00:56:29 | bughunter2 | they're marked as both DIR | VOL_ID |
| 00:56:41 | bughunter2 | ugly |
| 00:56:50 | | Part decayedcell_ |
| 00:57:42 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCD492.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:57:54 | bughunter2 | let's see if I get in trouble for changing the attribute |
| 00:59:44 | | Quit faemir ("Leaving") |
| 01:00 |
| 01:02:46 | TheSeven | so they did a similar hack to what microsoft themselves did when implementing long file names in FAT |
| 01:02:52 | | Quit Hillshum (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:03:00 | bughunter2 | it isn't related to long filenames? |
| 01:03:18 | TheSeven | long file names would have even some more bits set in that field |
| 01:03:25 | bughunter2 | ah |
| 01:03:59 | TheSeven | LFNs are typicall readonly,system,hidden,volumeid or even readonly,hidden,system,archive,directory,volumeid |
| 01:04:10 | TheSeven | typically* |
| 01:04:54 | bughunter2 | this explains all, |
| 01:05:00 | TheSeven | they probably relied on the fact that everything that is volumeid won't be shown, while it won't be treated because of some missing bits |
| 01:05:00 | bughunter2 | ##PORT#\Object.dat |
| 01:05:02 | bughunter2 | ~80.5MB |
| 01:05:24 | bughunter2 | not sure what's in there, but it's from the OF |
| 01:05:36 | bughunter2 | no real data in there yet, most likely it just allocated it but didn't write anything |
| 01:05:50 | bughunter2 | since it couldn't do that in just a few milliseconds before rebooting into RB |
| 01:07:08 | TheSeven | is it a bug or a feature that rockbox shows files flagged as VOLUME_ID? how does it deal with an actual volume id entry that isn't abused? |
| 01:07:22 | bughunter2 | it hides the first volume ID entry |
| 01:07:33 | bughunter2 | I think |
| 01:07:45 | bughunter2 | I wonder what happens if I remove all those files, then pump the whole disk full, then reboot the OF, then reboot into RB |
| 01:07:49 | bughunter2 | :P |
| 01:08:01 | bughunter2 | let's find out |
| 01:09:09 | TheSeven | if the OF is mean, it will just reformat it :-P |
| 01:09:16 | | Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") |
| 01:09:22 | bughunter2 | that'd be really mean |
| 01:09:33 | TheSeven | or it just crashes |
| 01:10:57 | bughunter2 | HxDen can also open disks btw |
| 01:11:04 | bughunter2 | not a bad hex editor imo |
| 01:11:15 | bughunter2 | using it a while now, just found out it can also open disks |
| 01:11:27 | TheSeven | can it compare to winhex? |
| 01:11:34 | bughunter2 | for me, I think it can |
| 01:13:23 | | Quit DarkDefender ("Leaving") |
| 01:27:00 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@89.100.0.69) |
| 01:29:39 | bughunter2 | ok, 0 bytes free, let's see what happens if I reboot it |
| 01:29:53 | bughunter2 | lol |
| 01:30:04 | bughunter2 | TheSeven: "Not enough space for Music Db, please free 90 MB" |
| 01:30:05 | bughunter2 | :P |
| 01:30:16 | TheSeven | wow, they even caught it :-) |
| 01:30:31 | bughunter2 | cool :) |
| 01:30:38 | | Join fdinel [0] (n=Miranda@modemcable204.232-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 01:30:46 | bughunter2 | well that suffices for me, time to enjoy RB |
| 01:31:06 | bughunter2 | or first, a good night of sleep.. |
| 01:31:13 | bughunter2 | hard to choose, but sleep is important |
| 01:31:14 | bughunter2 | ;) |
| 01:31:15 | TheSeven | will it be possible to break it by putting thousands of smallish files on it, so that those 90MB will turn out to not be sufficient? :-P |
| 01:31:27 | bughunter2 | haha, who knows |
| 01:31:37 | bughunter2 | I'll give that a shot too |
| 01:33:21 | TheSeven | who knows, maybe they calculated those 90MB (which seem to be quite a lot for 4GB of storage) for a 512 byte cluster size with one file per cluster :-) |
| 01:34:13 | bughunter2 | they probably figured customers wouldn't notice |
| 01:34:24 | bughunter2 | which in general is probably true |
| 01:34:34 | bughunter2 | but still lame |
| 01:35:19 | TheSeven | are we talking about memory cards here or about internal flash? i don't see why they didn't solve this by hiding the space from the PC in the first place, if it's the latter |
| 01:35:35 | bughunter2 | internal |
| 01:35:47 | bughunter2 | probably this was cheaper |
| 01:36:19 | TheSeven | they would just have needed to reduce the MSC sector count and write that stuff to the sectors after the MSC visible range |
| 01:36:26 | bughunter2 | aye |
| 01:36:34 | bughunter2 | :\ |
| 01:36:48 | TheSeven | in fact, this hack was probably more complex to accomplish... |
| 01:37:03 | bughunter2 | probably a bad design combined with time pressure |
| 01:37:33 | | Join Hillshum [0] (n=hillshum@75-165-247-150.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 01:37:51 | | Quit kkurbjun (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:38:25 | bughunter2 | lost my program to spam a drive with thousands of files |
| 01:38:37 | | Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@adsl-154-3-186.mcn.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:40:37 | bughunter2 | TheSeven: it'd be fun to spam the root directory so they can't create the directories |
| 01:41:08 | TheSeven | is it FAT16? |
| 01:41:11 | bughunter2 | FAT 32 |
| 01:41:41 | TheSeven | this has no limit on root directory size |
| 01:41:56 | bughunter2 | so if I spam it with files until it can't create files anymore... |
| 01:42:28 | TheSeven | this will be when it runs out of space - or out of ram while parsing the directory, if they didn't write proper code :-) |
| 01:42:42 | bughunter2 | would be fun to test |
| 01:42:43 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:42:52 | TheSeven | since FAT32, the root directory is just an ordinary cluster chain like every other file |
| 01:42:57 | bughunter2 | just for the hell of it |
| 01:48:21 | | Join Briantheman [0] (n=4aa12378@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-xdkuwohtmdxwffrk) |
| 01:48:44 | Briantheman | hello I need some help please |
| 01:49:02 | Hillshum | With what? |
| 01:49:58 | Briantheman | Hello |
| 01:50:51 | Briantheman | HOw can I get the artwork of an album to show up in a rockboxed sansa? |
| 01:53:01 | | Join Eosphere46 [0] (i=Eosphere@74.197.221.60) |
| 01:53:29 | Hillshum | Briantheman: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt |
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| 02:00 |
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| 02:14:34 | | Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
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| 02:16:09 | | Join JdGordon [0] (i=d036044e@gateway/web/freenode/x-cagrretmpxseuxfc) |
| 02:17:51 | Briantheman | hello All |
| 02:17:58 | | Join AndyIL [0] (n=pasha_in@212.14.205.32) |
| 02:18:39 | Briantheman | I need some help please ..... |
| 02:19:24 | | Quit Eosphere46 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:20:44 | | Join Eosphere46 [0] (i=Eosphere@74.197.221.60) |
| 02:20:45 | Briantheman | how can i place artwork in a sansa rockboxed with the arboxwidgets? |
| 02:21:42 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:21:52 | JdGordon | did you read the AlbumArt wiki page? and probably the manual? |
| 02:21:52 | Briantheman | i need some help |
| 02:22:17 | Briantheman | no |
| 02:22:34 | Briantheman | where is that? |
| 02:22:35 | JdGordon | ... |
| 02:22:45 | JdGordon | rockbox.org/manual |
| 02:22:47 | * | Eosphere46 plays dramatic music.... |
| 02:24:12 | Briantheman | Thanks. |
| 02:24:23 | JdGordon | meh, hint..... embedded AA doesnt work |
| 02:26:13 | | Quit mt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:26:36 | bughunter2 | TheSeven: I just made a little file system spammer :) |
| 02:26:39 | bughunter2 | testing it on the player now ;) |
| 02:27:24 | | Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
| 02:29:05 | | Quit AndyI (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:35:27 | * | Strife89 wonders what a file system spammer is good for. |
| 02:35:37 | Eosphere46 | lol |
| 02:36:29 | | Quit Eosphere46 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:36:33 | Briantheman | lol |
| 02:37:07 | bughunter2 | Strife89: to stress test :) |
| 02:37:17 | bughunter2 | it creates files until the fs driver gives up |
| 02:37:24 | Strife89 | Ah. :) |
| 02:37:32 | | Join Eosphere46 [0] (i=Eosphere@74.197.221.60) |
| 02:37:55 | bughunter2 | I ocne made XP machines in uni go crazy by spamming my %TMP% dir |
| 02:38:27 | Strife89 | Creepy stuff. :) |
| 02:38:35 | rasher | off topic |
| 02:38:43 | bughunter2 | there was no topic :P |
| 02:39:09 | rasher | There is. Please read the guidelines if you have any questions. In fact, you should already have done so. |
| 02:39:22 | Strife89 | rasher: Techincally, on topic, because he's stress testing the Rockbox code. |
| 02:39:38 | bughunter2 | it was tongue-in-cheek-style anyway, hope it didn't hurt anyone |
| 02:39:44 | bughunter2 | I'm not a troller, just FYI |
| 02:46:37 | | Quit Briantheman () |
| 02:50:38 | bughunter2 | night all |
| 02:50:59 | Eosphere46 | night |
| 03:00 |
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| 04:21:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 04:57:05 | | Quit Strife89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 05:00 |
| 05:05:06 | JdGordon | umm..... anyone around with rather random skin to testa quick patch? |
| 05:07:12 | JdGordon | rasher: ping? |
| 05:11:10 | JdGordon | scorche: ping? |
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| 07:35:59 | JdGordon | which would be better/more understandable/consistant for the wps? I want to add an escape char for \n so you can break up new lines... should it be % or \ ? |
| 07:37:56 | | Join stoffel [0] (n=quassel@p57B4D338.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:40:40 | * | JdGordon is tempte to go % because thats the standard escape char for skins |
| 07:40:45 | JdGordon | but \ is more universally inderstood |
| 07:40:49 | JdGordon | understood even |
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| 07:50:11 | pixelma | huh, I thought there already is one |
| 07:51:04 | pixelma | ah, if you use # you can also "mask" a newline with it |
| 07:52:13 | JdGordon | the whole thing is to fix 9640 |
| 07:52:29 | JdGordon | its remarkably simple to do, just trying to decide if its wanted |
| 07:54:42 | | Quit tarbo (Connection timed out) |
| 07:56:29 | JdGordon | ... doing a forum thread for this |
| 07:56:59 | pixelma | I don't know. I thought this was a feature of # - you can easily put the comment on another line but don't have a strong opinion |
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| 07:58:45 | pixelma | as long as viewports didn't exist (or you don't use them) you would have to put the # on the same line then if it doesn't "eat" the newline, otherwise you'll get blank lines there |
| 07:58:55 | JdGordon | right, so what I've done is let you put % at the end of a line to break long ones... that would work the same as putting #comment at the end of a line |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:12 | pixelma | then quite a few people would have to rework there WPSs just for that and always put a % at the end |
| 08:00:19 | pixelma | of some lines |
| 08:00:41 | JdGordon | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=22664.0 |
| 08:01:55 | JdGordon | they wouldnt if they already split their lines with #comment |
| 08:08:57 | pixelma | I don't understand your last statement but have to go to work now |
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| 09:42:32 | Grahack | Hi, I'm trying to call pcfbuf_beep() defined in /apps/pcmbuf.c from the lua plugin (/apps/plugins/lua/rocklib.c). Is it even possible? I added #include "pcmbuf.h" in rocklib.c but this is not enough (I get a "failed to load /.rockbox/rocks/viewers/lua.rock, dlopen(simdisk/.rockbox/rocks/viewers/lua.rock): simdisk/.rockbox/rocks/viewers/lua.rock: undefined symbol: pcmbuf_beep"). Do I guess right with something like "only functions d |
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| 10:53:48 | BulldogPO | Hi! |
| 10:54:11 | BulldogPO | can anyone help me with rockbox |
| 10:55:46 | BulldogPO | as Alpine car player and other things that does offer iPod compatibility doesn´t work with my iPod 80GB Classic when Rockbox is in use |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:16:43 | robin0800 | JdGordon: yes your "sublinefix" works and does indeed fix the problem many thanks |
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| 11:25:49 | jocon | hai |
| 11:28:04 | jocon | I am interested in makeing a simple app for my ipod, where can i find some info |
| 11:31:53 | Grahack | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HowtoWritePlugins and http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginLua |
| 11:32:28 | jocon | thanx |
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| 13:09:06 | Sajber^ | hey guys, i just wanna ask if there is any news on the Vision:M port...or is it still idle? |
| 13:09:55 | krazykit | any information would be on the relevant wiki page and forum thread |
| 13:10:24 | Sajber^ | noting new under then sun on that.. :/ |
| 13:10:33 | dionoea | is the themes.rockbox.org source code in svn somewhere? I was wondering if it would be possible to have stuff like sorting themes by publication date, download count, rating, ... |
| 13:11:58 | AlexP | It is |
| 13:12:30 | AlexP | http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/themes.rockbox.org/ |
| 13:13:05 | AlexP | I assume it is up to date |
| 13:14:38 | dionoea | thanks, I'll have a look |
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| 14:20:30 | bughunter2 | Hey, can some sansa hacker tell me how to recover my e200v2? I don't have any 'orig_image.bin' laying around (as described in http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200v2#Recovery_Mode_on_the_E200v2 ) |
| 14:21:21 | bughunter2 | also, if I connect the device in recovery mode, the contents of the disk don't seem like they should |
| 14:21:28 | bughunter2 | e.g. no .rockbox FAT root dir entry |
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| 14:23:23 | | Join Zagor [242] (n=bjorn@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 14:24:12 | bughunter2 | neither can I find the 'SANSA E200P' volume ID root dir entry |
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| 14:55:39 | bughunter2 | think I found a trick, I hex edited the pattern of the disktidy app to match all the files I want to delete from the root dir |
| 14:55:42 | bughunter2 | it's now cleaning :) |
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| 15:00:46 | bughunter2 | it would actually be need if one could edit the patterns inside rockbox, instead of having to hexedit or recompile :) |
| 15:00:51 | bughunter2 | s/need/neat/ |
| 15:02:15 | bughunter2 | or totally cleaning a partition, like, only leaving .rockbox in tact and delete the rest |
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| 15:07:06 | AsaelReiter | Can somebody have a look at FS #10589? |
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| 15:13:30 | dionoea | AsaelReiter: looks good to me. btw, the two collision detection blocks seems to be duplicates of one another. They should be factorised. |
| 15:13:40 | dionoea | AsaelReiter: and you might want to remove the now unused functions |
| 15:15:19 | dionoea | AsaelReiter: it looks like you have copy/paste errors in that patch (food_size and argh_size mixups) |
| 15:15:50 | AsaelReiter | I will check |
| 15:16:36 | AsaelReiter | And which functions I need to remove? (food_collision and argh_collision are still used) |
| 15:17:39 | dionoea | ah ok. Those other uses don't need the same fix? |
| 15:19:22 | AsaelReiter | I think that no |
| 15:19:48 | AsaelReiter | This two function are good when you want to check one point. |
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| 15:20:52 | AsaelReiter | And I think that all the food_size and argh_size are correct. |
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| 15:22:49 | AsaelReiter | (When checking between a food and an argh, we use both of them. when checking between two foods, we use twice food_size) |
| 15:24:49 | robin0800 | JdGordon: just to repeat many thanks for patch it compiles and works fine |
| 15:25:13 | dionoea | ah, right. |
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| 17:34:59 | Blue_Dude | I posted this the other day: I was wondering how the status bar "knows" exactly what's being played at the moment? I figure if the status bar "knows", then there might be a way to let the other display information know so that the WPS screen stays in sync. |
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| 17:40:51 | saratoga | what gets out of sync in the WPS? |
| 17:42:27 | CIA-43 | New commit by jdgordon (r22668): fix the first subline not displaying properly |
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| 17:45:59 | Blue_Dude | Things get weird just before a track change. The playlist number changes early. The WPS seems to lock up if you pause just before the end of the track then try to change tracks. Basically I want to know how the GUI knows exactly which samples are being played by the hardware given that the samples were buffered several seconds before. |
| 17:47:22 | Blue_Dude | If there's a way to track exactly what's going out the hardware, then there ought to be a way to lock the WPS more solidly so that these kinds of glitches stop happening. |
| 17:48:51 | saratoga | i'm not familar with this code but it sounds like the playback engine is updating its state cleanly enough, not that we forget to update the WPS |
| 17:50:04 | Blue_Dude | You meant "the playback engine is NOT updating cleanly enough..."? |
| 17:51:04 | JdGordon | thats a know issue |
| 17:51:31 | JdGordon | the ~2s between when the track is technically finished being decoded and actually spat out the DAC is a wierd time |
| 17:52:20 | Blue_Dude | It's a known issue, but is it fixable? |
| 17:52:26 | saratoga | sorry "not updating" |
| 17:52:34 | saratoga | basically our playback engine is a mess |
| 17:53:07 | Blue_Dude | So while we're at it, what else is busted? |
| 17:53:25 | Blue_Dude | with playback? |
| 17:53:36 | JdGordon | you dont really want to open that particular can... |
| 17:53:42 | JdGordon | lest the worms get out!!! |
| 17:54:11 | Blue_Dude | Oh yes I do. If I'm going to wade in, I ought to know what I'm getting myself into. |
| 17:54:36 | JdGordon | I want to say search the logs... its been discussed plenty, but I couldnt tell you when or for what |
| 17:55:21 | JdGordon | that particular problem is because of the way playback,buffering,playlist and the GUI all "work" together |
| 17:55:25 | Blue_Dude | I'll try but I suck at running searches. I never know what to search on. |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:02:38 | saratoga | Blue_Dude: theres been lots of discussion about playback, but mostly just vague stuff, I've never seen anyone lay out exactly what goes wrong, so I assume no one has figured it out entirely |
| 18:02:58 | saratoga | i think its mostly just that a lot of cases on track changes aren't handled cleanly |
| 18:03:25 | Blue_Dude | Well, it vexes me. Must fix. :) |
| 18:03:26 | saratoga | incidently, if you happen to notice why playback locks up sometimes on low memory targets, please let us know :) |
| 18:03:54 | Blue_Dude | I don't have one, but if I come across something promising I'll mention it. |
| 18:05:49 | saratoga | i think if you compile any target so that it has about 2-3MB total memory for rockbox + buffering it will lock up playback randomly |
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| 18:05:57 | saratoga | any software decoding target that is |
| 18:06:01 | JdGordon | very quickly.... my beef with the system is that track changes (and where the "current track" is defined) all happen through playback.c... I'm thinking playlist shuld handle this |
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| 18:07:08 | JdGordon | it shuold be... playlist knows track X is playing... playback/buffering will buffer X+N tracks untill its full, each time a track finishes actually being played it tells playlist that its finished which then lets the GUI know |
| 18:07:33 | saratoga | what does playback.c handle then? |
| 18:07:36 | JdGordon | same thing for forced track changes... the GUI tells playlist which then yells at playback |
| 18:07:48 | Blue_Dude | Well, how does playback know what's being played at the moment? It has to have some kind of feedback from the pcm handler. |
| 18:08:35 | JdGordon | playback.c is the glue for the codecs and the actual audio stuff... it wouldnt change much... playlist would have the responsibility of keeping track of where in the playlist we actually are though |
| 18:08:53 | JdGordon | Blue_Dude: it does |
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| 18:09:52 | JdGordon | iirc it knows when a track is finished decoding, and when a track is finished through PCM... the problem you saw is because when it finishes decoding it tells playlist (wrongly) that the track changed |
| 18:10:01 | JdGordon | or something like that.. I havnt looked at it in a while |
| 18:10:34 | Blue_Dude | So where's the problem? Playback? Or playlist? |
| 18:10:45 | JdGordon | yes |
| 18:10:51 | Blue_Dude | Thanks. |
| 18:11:19 | Blue_Dude | That narrows it down to about 4000 lines of code or so. |
| 18:11:36 | JdGordon | :D |
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| 18:17:42 | JdGordon | ... with all that said.. playlist.c should be split up into playlist generation, playlist manipulation and *current* playlist handling |
| 18:20:24 | Blue_Dude | Frak me. playlist.c is already 3500+ lines. I was kidding... |
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| 18:22:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:25:23 | Blue_Dude | Is playlist.c really the place you want for keeping track of which track is playing? |
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| 18:33:25 | karltpb1 | Hi I'm trying to compile checkwps on windows using cygwin but I get an error |
| 18:33:37 | | Join evilnick [0] (i=0c140464@gateway/web/freenode/x-vbkuorsmtrjpybcx) |
| 18:33:41 | karltpb1 | LD checkwps.XXXXXXX.exe cc: no input files make: *** [checkwps.XXXXXXX.exe] Error 1 |
| 18:35:09 | JdGordon_ | do you only want it to for target? |
| 18:35:42 | | Quit karltpb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
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| 18:40:45 | karltpb1 | yeah but i'd love to compile it myself |
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| 18:49:18 | JdGordon_ | so use the configure option for that target |
| 18:55:07 | karltpb1 | just tried that and it gives me errors too |
| 18:55:16 | Blue_Dude | Hey, why does the GUI lock up at the end of a playlist? The screen returns to the main page, but the scroll wheel doesn't work. I have to touch the power button to wake it up. |
| 18:56:13 | karltpb1 | $ make -j Generating dependencies CC apps/gui/skin_engine/wps_debug.c CC apps/gui/skin_engine/skin_parser.c CC apps/gui/skin_engine/skin_buffer.c CC apps/misc.c CC apps/recorder/bmp.c CC firmware/common/strlcpy.c CC tools/checkwps/checkwps.c In file included from /home/scarr/rockbox/apps/recorder/bmp.c:46: /home/scarr/rockbox/firmware/export/debug.h:27: error: parse error before "ATTRI BUTE_PRINTF" |
| 18:56:15 | | Quit merbanan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:56:37 | JdGordon_ | arg... it might be broken again |
| 18:58:07 | karltpb1 | hang on let me try with the latest revision |
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| 19:00 |
| 19:00:04 | karltpb1 | well I get the same error on revision 22668 |
| 19:00:32 | Blue_Dude | Which target are you trying to compile for? I'll try it here. |
| 19:00:34 | JdGordon_ | it might be broken |
| 19:00:42 | karltpb1 | ipod video 64mb |
| 19:01:08 | JdGordon_ | use the sim with −−debugwps |
| 19:02:01 | | Quit Strife89 ("To work.") |
| 19:02:51 | Blue_Dude | Yeah, broke for me too. |
| 19:03:16 | | Join Maltin [0] (i=mst@server1.bshellz.net) |
| 19:03:26 | Maltin | hey guys |
| 19:04:11 | moos | like that was proposed here, maybe we should have checkwps on the build table |
| 19:06:04 | Blue_Dude | The checkWPS build really doesn't like the ATTRIBUTE_PRINTF tag. Or maybe it chokes on the "..." variable parameters. |
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| 19:08:22 | karltpb1 | I'm unable to figure out this error: http://pastebin.com/f3478bc4b |
| 19:08:47 | karltpb1 | Pasted the output from the simulator −−debugwps |
| 19:08:56 | karltpb1 | WPS: http://pastebin.com/f3ed7df73 |
| 19:08:58 | | Quit pamaury ("exit(*(int *)0 / 0);") |
| 19:10:48 | JdGordon_ | there is no %xl|d| |
| 19:10:56 | JdGordon_ | its breaking on %xdd |
| 19:13:09 | karltpb1 | ah thanks |
| 19:13:46 | karltpb1 | it's reporting the wrong line no though |
| 19:13:50 | bertrik | my latest fix for the si4700 tuner chip in the sansa c200v2 didn't help much :( |
| 19:13:53 | * | domonoky wonders why the parser says line 41, and %xdd is on line 39 in this pastebin. |
| 19:13:56 | | Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
| 19:14:25 | domonoky | and the error message could be better.. :-) |
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| 19:24:44 | JdGordon| | yeah, I've been looking into making the debug output better |
| 19:26:12 | JdGordon| | I'm not sure why the line is 2 off though... |
| 19:27:41 | JdGordon| | it was worse 2 days ago when it didnt even say which image was being displayed... so at least there its easier to find the problem |
| 19:28:03 | JdGordon| | on that topic.... ping rasher |
| 19:28:07 | JdGordon| | or scorche |
| 19:28:23 | JdGordon| | or anyone who knows the theme site backend |
| 19:28:44 | * | domonoky thinks it would be very helpfull, if it would also output the token where it fails. ie Error on line 42, token %xdd. |
| 19:31:15 | pixelma | moos: nice idea, but you compile checkwps for a certain target, would you add a column for each (and it can really differ in screen dimensions and depths and feature sets, e.g. virtual led etc.)? |
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| 19:31:47 | JdGordon| | pixelma: checkwps is so fast I would suggest just adding it to the end of the sim build |
| 19:31:54 | JdGordon| | or the bootloader build |
| 19:32:03 | JdGordon| | it compiles llike 5 files only |
| 19:32:09 | pixelma | a combined column? |
| 19:32:20 | JdGordon| | yeah |
| 19:33:02 | JdGordon| | *or* get the mass checkwps going again and add a column for it, although its output will be very annoying because it wont be easy to see if its the same error for each target, or different ones |
| 19:34:42 | pixelma | hmm.. can you compile a sim *with* checkwps - does that even make sense? |
| 19:34:57 | | Join zzy [0] (n=opera@c-71-202-247-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:36:21 | JdGordon| | no |
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| 19:39:40 | * | domonoky thinks we should just add checkwps normally like the sims. And maybe change the buildtable orientation again.. (as the the table gets very wide) |
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| 19:45:45 | zzy | Hi, I'm using the Rockbox 3.3 and and Boot v5.0 with a Sansa e260. When my e260 is off and I plug it in via USB it goes to the original Sansa firmware, is this expected? |
| 19:47:21 | AB3JU | zzy: there's a bootloader on flyspray that corrects that behavior |
| 19:48:01 | AB3JU | I'm not sure if anyone ever built it into sansapatcher though, so you may have to load it with... -a? can't remember, not at home right now |
| 19:48:03 | JdGordon| | domonoky: I dont think adding a new colum for every target is very helpful |
| 19:50:02 | domonoky | JdGordon|: but what are the alternatives ? a combined (either sim+checkwps or all checkwps builds) row/colum is also not really helpfull, as it will make it hard to find the errors. |
| 19:50:35 | zzy | AB3JU: thank you very much for the reply, know the FlySpray #? |
| 19:51:00 | domonoky | and if we change the orientation of the table again, it wont hurt so much to have another row. |
| 19:51:16 | JdGordon| | I think sim+checkwps does make sense... as long as the gap is obvious... remember checkwps is a tiny compile and wont break nearly as often as anything else (unless there is lot of skin changes like now) |
| 19:51:17 | gevaerts | AB3JU, zzy: please don't use the one from flyspray. It's horribly outdated |
| 19:51:47 | gevaerts | There are candidate-official bootloaders at http://download.rockbox.org/pp-bootloaders/ |
| 19:52:14 | zzy | gevaerts: could you tell me, is this behavior expected and now being changed? or is what I'm experiencing a bug? |
| 19:52:33 | AB3JU | zzy: it's the old behavior from before the sansa had USB support enabled in rockbox |
| 19:52:50 | gevaerts | zzy: AB3JU's answer is correct in every way, except that flyspray is not the right place to get a new bootloader |
| 19:53:37 | AB3JU | gevaerts: what's new in the new bootloader from fs? |
| 19:53:42 | zzy | gevaerts & AB3JU: thanks... also if you guys have the FlySpry #, it would be cool, so I could follow the progress of the bug... |
| 19:54:17 | AB3JU | zzy: I want to say it's something along the lines of 7788 or 7878 or something like that |
| 19:54:57 | gevaerts | AB3JU: please stop referring to that flyspray bootloader. It is outdated, and the task will not be updated |
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| 20:00 |
| 20:02:39 | | Join petur [0] (n=peter@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 20:02:57 | * | GodEater had no idea the bug with ipod shutdowns happened so regularly for some people :( |
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| 20:22:29 | zzy | gevaerts & AB3JU: I installed the new bootloader, and the Rockbox charging screen now appears when plugging in my e260 when off, cheers and thanks |
| 20:25:25 | zzy | is there a way to disconnect the USB through Rockbox, I read about a USB disconnect feature, but I don't know how to use it? |
| 20:26:11 | gevaerts | there's no way to disconnect, no. The best you can do is plug in without a mass storage connection |
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| 20:32:53 | zzy | gevaerts: oh, what does this flyspray bug mean, it discusses a usb disconnect feature: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10011 |
| 20:33:51 | gevaerts | zzy: hm, I apparently forgot to close that. It explains why the disconnect handling was removed |
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| 20:38:46 | zzy | gevaerts: thanks, you've been super helpful |
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| 20:53:01 | zzy | Can playlists be created on a PC that include files on both the built-in storage and SD card? |
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| 20:54:16 | saratoga | In theory yes, but I don't know if theres any software that can do it automatically without needing to find and replace the output |
| 20:54:33 | zzy | =( |
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| 21:00 |
| 21:01:40 | | Quit Omlet () |
| 21:03:10 | amiconn | Iirc it should work without search-and-replace |
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| 21:11:11 | JdGordon| | drive mappings are different though... |
| 21:11:31 | JdGordon| | d:\ (or /sdcard) on the comp isnt even close to <microSD1> |
| 21:12:05 | JdGordon| | scorche|sh: how much does the themes backend rely on the checkwps output... I want to rearrange it but couldnt find where its used by the site |
| 21:13:08 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:14:13 | amiconn | Iirc the playlist code strips drive letters as well as top-level dirs if the file isn't found |
| 21:14:45 | p3tur | bah... on h3x0, in the recording screen, the rec button no longer starts a recording... wtf? |
| 21:15:00 | amiconn | Hmm, probably it won't add the <vol> dir though |
| 21:15:18 | JdGordon| | yeah, I didnt think it was that smart |
| 21:16:39 | amiconn | Stripping is necessary for all targets, either the drive letter (playlists made on windows), or one or more top-level dirs (linux - the mount point) |
| 21:17:11 | JdGordon| | sure |
| 21:17:12 | amiconn | Adding one would only be necessary on multivolume - maybe that should be added |
| 21:17:36 | | Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") |
| 21:19:27 | amiconn | The strip code once confused me a bit. I had the same album both on an MMC (i.e. /<MMC1>/genre/artist/album) as well as on the internal storage (just /album). I made a playlist from MMC contents only and started it. Then I stopped, pulled the MMC, and resumed. Guess what happened |
| 21:20:15 | gevaerts | strange things? |
| 21:20:28 | amiconn | nah |
| 21:20:44 | gevaerts | it probably Just Worked |
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| 21:25:35 | Jaykay | saratoga: was there any progress in the supported vs. unsupported builds discussion since your last mail? |
| 21:29:23 | p3tur | oy... why did MarcGuay remove the 'start new file if not recording' functionality from ACTION_REC_NEWFILE ??? |
| 21:29:44 | p3tur | (revision 21034) |
| 21:31:12 | p3tur | can anybody remember why he did that? |
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| 21:31:47 | AlexP | p3tur: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090522#14:12:05 |
| 21:32:03 | domonoky | JdGordon| take a look at private/themesire.class.php, checkwps is used there. And it looks like it only really uses the return value of checkwps (the text is presented to the user if uploading fails). |
| 21:32:06 | AlexP | That doesn't say why, but was from the same time |
| 21:32:40 | JdGordon| | domonoky: ok thanks |
| 21:32:49 | JdGordon| | so I'm free to fiddle? |
| 21:33:00 | AlexP | petur: And this is why apparently: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10230 |
| 21:33:09 | AlexP | It caused issues on the nano or something |
| 21:33:32 | domonoky | JdGordon| i am not 100% sure, but it looks like its fine to fiddle with checkwps output. |
| 21:34:02 | p3tur | AlexP: thanks |
| 21:35:50 | * | AlexP notes he doesn't have a little Rockbox logo in the irc log viewer |
| 21:36:02 | * | AlexP flicks zagor :) |
| 21:36:54 | p3tur | another fine misunderstanding.... I actually said I was OK with not having duplicate functionality on two keys, I never said I was OK with removing the REC key (which is later claimed to be what I said). argh |
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| 21:38:00 | * | p3tur blames pixelma |
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| 21:46:10 | saratoga | Jaykay: not that i know of |
| 21:46:21 | saratoga | someone who can change the front page needs to do that |
| 21:46:45 | Jaykay | argh |
| 21:46:50 | Jaykay | such a good idea |
| 21:47:00 | Jaykay | every detail is in the mail |
| 21:47:04 | gevaerts | saratoga: the front page is in svn |
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| 21:47:20 | Jaykay | and nobody does it |
| 21:50:49 | saratoga | so we can edit it in SVN and then get bagder to upload to the webserver? |
| 21:51:07 | AlexP | as I understand it, yes |
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| 21:53:09 | saratoga | i guess this should be a patch on the FS then? |
| 21:53:39 | gevaerts | you can just commit it. It's just that one of the Swedes has to run svn update on the webserver |
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| 21:57:57 | zzy | amiconn: I don't think the drive letter stripping is occurring with my playlists |
| 22:00 |
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| 22:04:41 | saratoga | should the front page link to the actual wiki pages for unstable devices (e.g. SansaAMS) or just the TargetStatus page? |
| 22:04:42 | | Quit moos (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:05:09 | gevaerts | hm |
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| 22:06:45 | gevaerts | I think it should link either directly to the wiki pages, or to a restricted status page that only has information about the unstable devices (i.e. not the unsupported ones) |
| 22:07:24 | gevaerts | "the wiki pages" not necessarily being the standard port pages. Those tend to be a bit too technical and inconsistent for this I think |
| 22:08:16 | saratoga | the idea was that each wiki page would be cleaned up as requirement for being considered "unstable" so that it resembled the SansaAMS page right now |
| 22:08:54 | gevaerts | sounds good |
| 22:09:57 | gevaerts | although the SansaAMS page is about what it says, i.e. the Sansa AMS devices, so not only the ones we would call supported |
| 22:10:23 | gevaerts | that can be easily fixed though. An extra column in the table would do it I think |
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| 22:13:16 | * | pixelma whistles innocently |
| 22:13:46 | pixelma | I wonder what petur blames on me |
| 22:14:40 | p3tur | on May 22 you said I was OK with REC no longer starting a recording |
| 22:15:04 | p3tur | I had only said I was OK when there were not two buttons to start recording |
| 22:15:20 | p3tur | removing REC is a bit strange |
| 22:15:35 | p3tur | and people now start complainging of course... |
| 22:16:15 | saratoga | gevaerts: first shot at updating index.t: http://pastebin.com/m7a030887 |
| 22:16:25 | saratoga | no idea how correct that is since i don't know HTML |
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| 22:17:28 | Superandy | hey |
| 22:17:34 | Superandy | did you see linux4nano |
| 22:17:39 | Superandy | they got the dual boot for the 2g |
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| 22:18:19 | gevaerts | saratoga: I think that looks good |
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| 22:45:38 | bluebrother | REC doesn't start recording anymore? Did I miss something? |
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| 22:49:53 | pixelma | I said it was ok if Rec no longer starting recording - on an H100? |
| 22:50:10 | pixelma | or H300? |
| 22:50:43 | gevaerts | pixelma: read the bit of IRC log that AlexP pointed to. It's all a bit confused |
| 22:51:57 | saratoga | anyone else want to comment on this before I send it: http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/index.htm |
| 22:52:43 | pixelma | just read it - I did not speak about the use of the Rec button just about the "rec_newfile" action, I didn't know which of the two was mapped to the Rec button on these Irivers |
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| 22:53:16 | AlexP | saratoga: Looks good - do we want a link from the unstable devices line to somewhere? |
| 22:53:21 | JdGordon| | saratoga: you didnt put the mr500 and beast in supported? |
| 22:53:29 | AlexP | Like a device status page or something |
| 22:53:44 | gevaerts | AlexP: the individual lines link to such pages |
| 22:54:00 | saratoga | JdGordon|: the Beast needs cleaned up install directions |
| 22:54:05 | Zagor | has the "devices" word been discussed? would "stable ports" be a better wording? |
| 22:54:06 | saratoga | i don't know about the mr500 |
| 22:54:06 | AlexP | gevaerts: For unstable? |
| 22:54:25 | AlexP | gevaerts: Er sorry, I meant unusable |
| 22:54:36 | AlexP | @ saratoga too |
| 22:54:39 | pixelma | gevaerts: the confusion starts with the fact that there are/were two ways to start a recording (except on the OndioFM IIRC because it doesn't have one of the two due to button shortage :P ) |
| 22:54:51 | gevaerts | AlexP: there is a link on the next line |
| 22:55:20 | AlexP | gevaerts: Ah right, I didn't see that as it was after the Quick links heading |
| 22:56:05 | saratoga | we don't currnetly split up the devices between unstable and unusable on the wiki, so I didn't want to have seperate links |
| 22:56:11 | saratoga | but that could be fixed if people prefer it |
| 22:57:01 | saratoga | adding a link to ContributingToRockbox might be nice too |
| 22:57:09 | AlexP | saratoga: I don't mind, I just didn't see the link at all |
| 22:58:25 | | Quit madnick ("CGI:IRC") |
| 22:58:27 | saratoga | should "Stable Devices" have a description? |
| 22:59:32 | | Quit bmbl ("Bye!") |
| 23:00 |
| 23:01:27 | * | Zagor predicts confused questions about why sansa fuzes are unstable |
| 23:01:32 | * | domonoky1 would prever "Port" instead of "device", its not the device which is unstable, its the code |
| 23:01:41 | JdGordon| | sometyhing like "The hardwrae manufacturers are embarrased by our amazing skill on these players...." |
| 23:02:15 | Zagor | domonoky1: me too |
| 23:02:50 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:03:47 | | Join n1s [0] (n=n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 23:04:41 | domonoky1 | Zagor: i found a few problems in the buildmaster: bestfit_builds() will segfault if $totspeed over all clients is 0. And it never ends if there are builds which no client can build. But i dont know how to best fix that :-) |
| 23:05:41 | Zagor | domonoky1: ah, well hunted! I'll fix both bugs. |
| 23:06:30 | domonoky1 | Zagor: i did not hunt them, i fell overthem when i tried to run a buildmaster locally :-) |
| 23:06:41 | Zagor | that's not nearly as impressive :-) |
| 23:08:08 | JdGordon| | Zagor: dunno if you read the logs or not... we want to get checkwps going in the build table (its a configure oiption for targets now).... |
| 23:08:28 | JdGordon| | I feel the best way to do it is tack it onto the end of the targets sim build.... |
| 23:09:06 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: if it's a configure target, it should be possible to just add them to builds |
| 23:09:21 | JdGordon| | thats another 40 odd columns though |
| 23:09:24 | Zagor | gevaerts: yeah but that adds ~50 new 1-second builds to the table |
| 23:09:33 | domonoky1 | another not so nice thing in the buildsystem: the checks for tools like gcc,curl etc are done by checking the "which" output for a beginning slash. this will ofcourse fail on windows :-) |
| 23:09:54 | rasher | domonoky1: not on cygwin.. |
| 23:09:57 | Zagor | domonoky1: windows? what's that? |
| 23:10:18 | gevaerts | Zagor: yes, but do we want independent builds to be listed together? |
| 23:10:18 | * | domonoky1 wants rbutil built automatically :-) |
| 23:10:26 | * | JdGordon| ditto's that |
| 23:10:37 | domonoky1 | and for this i want the buildclients to run on win/lin/mac nativly :-) |
| 23:10:45 | Zagor | gevaerts: no, that's not terribly nice either. and requires changing the format of the builds file. I'm undecided. |
| 23:10:47 | * | rasher voices a vote for an "all checkwps targets" build, with one column |
| 23:10:54 | * | gevaerts agrees with rasher |
| 23:11:13 | rasher | It wouldn't clutter the build table, and it should be pretty easy to read the log |
| 23:11:21 | gevaerts | or we can pick a few targets. That should catch most of the problems |
| 23:11:30 | JdGordon| | no, it will be a huge PITA to fix yellow/reds in it |
| 23:11:38 | rasher | JdGordon|: Why? |
| 23:11:39 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: 's idea is closer to workable |
| 23:11:55 | domonoky1 | picking targets is dangerous, the selection is prone to get outdated... |
| 23:11:56 | pixelma | how will that find out if WPS don't work on certain targets like with using backdrop and album art tags etc.? |
| 23:11:58 | JdGordon| | because it will spit out errors for every target... they may not all be identical |
| 23:12:10 | Zagor | gevaerts' idea works already. the only negative is the build table bloat |
| 23:12:16 | gevaerts | pixelma: I think it's likely that the other builds will catch that |
| 23:12:25 | JdGordon| | we shold be able to work out which 5 builds need doing |
| 23:12:33 | rasher | JdGordon|: So what? You fix the errors it outputs.. And if you missed some, that's no different than what happens today |
| 23:12:35 | JdGordon| | to cover 90% of the options |
| 23:12:41 | pixelma | or better: a part of checkwps that is "responsible" for checking that |
| 23:13:11 | JdGordon| | rasher: sure, but its the difference between 1 "fix red" ci and 5 |
| 23:13:17 | * | gevaerts already found one |
| 23:13:24 | gevaerts | checkwps doesn't build for the Player |
| 23:13:35 | JdGordon| | it doesnt build at all again apparently |
| 23:13:37 | rasher | JdGordon|: I seriously doubt this is an issue, honestly. |
| 23:13:59 | * | domonoky1 thinks we should build checkwps for all targets. the presentation in the build-table is to be discussed :-) |
| 23:14:01 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: it builds for c200 here |
| 23:14:07 | rasher | Besides, picking only a few targets is bound to miss the targets where it breaks. |
| 23:14:29 | * | rasher is with domonoky1 |
| 23:14:47 | JdGordon| | wps editor is actually the more interesting project imo |
| 23:14:48 | rasher | It would be foolish to only build a selection on the hope that we picked the right ones |
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| 23:17:40 | pixelma | JdGordon|: I thought your patch changes the behaviour of # always |
| 23:19:30 | JdGordon| | not intentioannly |
| 23:19:39 | pixelma | your suggestion now that # will have a different meaning whether it is at the beginning of the line or at the end sounds even worse (and more complicated code-wise as well as understanding it) |
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| 23:20:30 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 23:20:34 | rasher | The normal use of # is "everything after it is ignored". Problem is that in WPS code, a blank line is significant, whereas it usually isn't. For that reason, it requires special handling when a line is nothing but comment |
| 23:20:47 | JdGordon| | are you takling about my suggestion of using # instead of % to keep eat the \n? |
| 23:21:08 | * | gevaerts suspects that there is a subset of targets that covers all of checkwps, but he's starting to agree that it will be hard to get that subset right |
| 23:21:08 | rasher | "whereas it usually isn't" = in say, shell scripts or perl or config files |
| 23:21:50 | rasher | gevaerts: That's likely true, but a silly task, if you ask me, when just building all of them is merely a problem of representation |
| 23:22:07 | gevaerts | rasher: that's what I'm starting to agree with |
| 23:22:35 | Zagor | a problem I already fixed once, btw, by simpy filtering away all-green columns |
| 23:22:39 | gevaerts | collapsing greens on nozip builds sounds like a better solution |
| 23:22:52 | JdGordon| | player, recorder, h100, ipod video, clip.... that should be 99% of the posibilities |
| 23:23:03 | rasher | JdGordon|: What do you gain though by this bet? |
| 23:23:15 | JdGordon| | well nothing really |
| 23:23:23 | JdGordon| | easiier output to parse |
| 23:23:25 | pixelma | rasher: I don't think it needs special handling - and LaTex comments behave similarly |
| 23:23:42 | rasher | JdGordon|: You can just only look at the player, recorder, h100, ipod video, clip logs then.. |
| 23:23:51 | JdGordon| | ... |
| 23:23:59 | rasher | or "parts of the log", if it turns into one log |
| 23:24:06 | rasher | JdGordon|: What? |
| 23:24:30 | JdGordon| | "roll eyes and groan" is longer to type |
| 23:24:42 | pixelma | JdGordon|: I talked about "comments at the end of the lines *dont* eat the \n, comments which are the whoel line do eat the \" |
| 23:24:53 | gevaerts | The only problem I see with the don't-show-greens system is that you lose the links to the downloads |
| 23:25:27 | rasher | JdGordon|: You'll have to explain. You just agreed that there is no good reason not to test them all. When something breaks, you go look at the logs that you think are needed to fix the problem |
| 23:25:32 | rasher | Same as any other build |
| 23:26:10 | * | JdGordon| is so bloody confused about the comment stuff |
| 23:26:35 | rasher | I just don't agree that only building some makes anything any easier at all |
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| 23:26:46 | rasher | except perhaps for Zagor, but since when do we care about him? |
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| 23:26:54 | pixelma | JdGordon|: which would mean that you have to know that # behaves differently whether you use it on a line on its own or not. By the way I wouldn't use # for inline comments after some other WPS code |
| 23:26:55 | JdGordon| | rasher: if everything is in one long log, a single warning is repeated X times... its very hard to figure out if its all the same one or multiple |
| 23:27:16 | rasher | JdGordon|: That's not different than the same warning repeated in X files. |
| 23:27:54 | rasher | Even then, you could have the checkwps build logs in separate files even though it shows up as one column, if you like, I guess. |
| 23:28:00 | JdGordon| | yes it is... right now if there is yellow 3 on every single column you can be sure (well almost) thats its all the same... if one has 5 though you can easily spot the difference |
| 23:28:04 | gevaerts | Has anyone ever considered just splitting the table? |
| 23:28:20 | Zagor | gevaerts: blasphemy! |
| 23:28:50 | Zagor | uh, no that's not the right word :) |
| 23:28:58 | gevaerts | heresy? |
| 23:29:27 | JdGordon| | pixelma: like I keep saying... I dont write much wps code because i cant make any sense of it... so I'm trying to make it easier for those that do.... I would think that splitting long lines into mutliple shorter ones with comments would be nice |
| 23:29:47 | Zagor | gevaerts: that's more in line with my fuzz, yes |
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| 23:30:12 | pixelma | JdGordon|: you can do that already |
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| 23:31:06 | * | JdGordon| gives up... he is way to confused |
| 23:31:22 | rasher | pixelma: I don't see it as "behaving differently", really. It's just how comments usually work everywhere else |
| 23:31:43 | pixelma | now I'm confused |
| 23:31:48 | gevaerts | Zagor: another way could be to split the table into four (or more...) tables (one per build type), and use css+js tabs |
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| 23:32:31 | rasher | pixelma: Text after # gets ignored. Lines that start with # are "comment lines" that might as well not exist |
| 23:32:42 | Zagor | gevaerts: sure, have fun! ;-) |
| 23:32:46 | JdGordon| | how about using css+js to hide various columns with single clicks... e.g "hide green", "hide sims", "hide bootloaders" etc? |
| 23:32:51 | JdGordon| | but all in one table |
| 23:33:00 | rasher | pixelma: Wait, let me phrase it better. |
| 23:33:14 | pixelma | I think I understood now |
| 23:33:15 | gevaerts | Zagor: I was afraid you'd say that |
| 23:33:38 | rasher | pixelma: # is a comment marker. Comments get ignored. If a comment is the only thing on a line, the entire line is the comment. If comment is only the latter, only the latter part is the comment, and hence the linefeed is not part of the comment |
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| 23:34:14 | rasher | It's just a matter of what you think of as "the comment" |
| 23:34:23 | Zagor | collapsing greens is the best way imho. we can still make the full table too and have it available in a link. |
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| 23:38:29 | JdGordon| | so wait a sec... isnt the bug then that comments mid line dont eat the \n? |
| 23:38:37 | pixelma | rasher: I think it's fine as it is - and as I said you can find other markup languages where the comment sign always eats the linefeed no matter if there is something before or not. E.g. the % in LaTeX marks the comment and I could (had to) use it to escape the linefeed when breaking too long \opt{blah,blub} lines as otherwise I got a space between the different things which broke the \opt for blah or blub |
| 23:38:52 | pixelma | JdGordon|: for me a feature |
| 23:39:08 | rasher | It means I have to litter my WPS with blank lines if I want to use inline comments |
| 23:39:11 | pixelma | eh... no |
| 23:39:11 | rasher | Looks terrible |
| 23:39:26 | pixelma | huh? |
| 23:40:03 | pixelma | the "bug" is that it eats the newline which is just consistent to me |
| 23:41:13 | rasher | I admit to not knowing LaTeX well enough to know of this, but every other language I've used, inline comments don't require a blank line to be inserted below it |
| 23:41:19 | pixelma | rasher: I don't understand why you would want to use inline comments by the way |
| 23:41:57 | rasher | It's a nice way to explain the structure of a wps. Or it would be if it didn't break down |
| 23:42:04 | pixelma | just put the comment above or below |
| 23:42:09 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
| 23:42:21 | rasher | No |
| 23:42:24 | Zagor | yeah that sounds like the simplest solution: only full-line comments allowed |
| 23:42:34 | rasher | Looks terrible and you can't do ascii art! |
| 23:42:59 | Zagor | huh? |
| 23:43:20 | gevaerts | How about committing a new builds file with a checkwps build for each target that has a simulator build? That should provide some real motivation to solve the table size problems |
| 23:43:39 | Zagor | gevaerts: sure, have fun! ;-) |
| 23:43:41 | pixelma | if I add comments they are usually long enough on its own, putting them after a line of "random" WPS tags just make them unreadable to me |
| 23:43:51 | rasher | http://pastebin.com/m39314989 <−− these examples can't work. |
| 23:44:13 | gevaerts | Zagor: I mean, I commit the new builds file, someone else gets motivated to work on the table :) |
| 23:44:58 | Zagor | gevaerts: sure, fire away |
| 23:45:16 | CIA-43 | New commit by gevaerts (r22669): Add checkwps builds |
| 23:45:26 | Zagor | rasher: and is this really so terrible: http://pastebin.com/mfdb8a7b ? |
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| 23:45:57 | rasher | Zagor: That doesn't carry the same amount of information |
| 23:46:07 | rasher | I don't like it one bit. |
| 23:46:08 | CIA-43 | New commit by gevaerts (r22670): remove empty line at the end |
| 23:46:11 | Zagor | what information is lost? |
| 23:46:20 | rasher | Which specific line is meant |
| 23:46:23 | rasher | line(s) |
| 23:46:26 | * | JdGordon| prefers inline comments also |
| 23:46:41 | rasher | The first ones also look terribly messy |
| 23:47:05 | | Quit TheSeven (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:47:15 | JdGordon| | pixelma: as for longer comments... wps lines arnt usually that long, and when they are, they could easily be split up with workign comment handling |
| 23:47:18 | rasher | Anyway, if it's such a big issue, I'd rather we ban inline comments completely than allow this unintuitive handling |
| 23:47:47 | JdGordon| | NO! |
| 23:47:50 | pixelma | it's not unintuitive for me :\ |
| 23:48:54 | JdGordon| | the difference between the 2 examples is that in rasher's you can sort of picture the wps by ignoring the comments... in Zagor's you cant do this.. the comments mess everything up |
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| 23:49:27 | JdGordon| | which I tihnk is why the most comments you get for a viewport is a single line "aa viewport" |
| 23:49:29 | rasher | Once you *know* this, you can adapt, but I doubt anyone fresh off the train expects a comment at the end of a line to join the two lines |
| 23:50:04 | pixelma | JdGordon|: just look at some WPSs in SVN and you'll take that "they are usually not that long" back ;) My WPS never have a simple %ia for example as I use filename/directory fall backs etc. |
| 23:50:14 | Zagor | JdGordon|: any moderately complex wps loses any chance of being "visualized" in the source anyway |
| 23:50:16 | | Part zzy |
| 23:50:26 | JdGordon| | pixelma: yes, but wouldnt it be nice to split those long lines up to make it readable? |
| 23:50:47 | pixelma | rashers example won't look that nice if you have lines that are differently long and longer overall |
| 23:50:52 | rasher | Zagor: It worked pretty well for my widecabbie wps, if I may say so myself. At least before I realised I couldn't use inline comments.. |
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| 23:50:56 | JdGordon| | Zagor: yes and now... you at least can see the rough line placements correctly |
| 23:51:00 | pixelma | JdGordon|: you can already do this... |
| 23:51:02 | rasher | pixelma: Just add some spaces before the # .. |
| 23:51:42 | Zagor | oh well, I don't really care either way. it was just a simple way out. |
| 23:51:53 | JdGordon| | s/now/no/ |
| 23:51:59 | pixelma | "some"? - and how long will the long WPS line plus comment be? |
| 23:52:37 | * | JdGordon| goes to find a random wps line to use as an example |
| 23:53:12 | JdGordon| | %t0.1%?bc<%xdea|>;%t0.1%?bc<%xdeb|>;%t0.1%?bc<%xdec|>;%t0.1%?bc<%xded|>;%t0.1%?bc<%xdee|>;%t0.1%?bc<%xdef|>;%t5%?bc<%xdeg|> |
| 23:53:24 | gevaerts | I don't really like the magic linefeed-eating, and I'd prefer an explicit continuation character. The main problem I'm afraid of is that I don't see a way to spot WPSes that break due to the change |
| 23:53:25 | JdGordon| | if that was mine, I'd split it on every ; with a short comment |
| 23:53:29 | rasher | pixelma: I managed most of widecabbie within 80 lines, including comments |
| 23:53:37 | pixelma | those full comment lines can make it look messy too but to me they are still more readable (except rasher's too simple example) |
| 23:54:08 | pixelma | JdGordon|: you can already do this now... someone just didn't do it |
| 23:54:08 | rasher | pixelma: Of course it's a simple example, I'm not going to write a full wps to show you how inline comments work... |
| 23:54:45 | pixelma | I know how they work but won't look as nice in a real case |
| 23:54:55 | rasher | Yes they will. |
| 23:55:25 | rasher | Do I really have to do this... |
| 23:55:27 | pixelma | to you... (and this getting stupid "religious" :\ ) |
| 23:55:28 | JdGordon| | yep, once again, I dont know what I'm arguing.... inline comments definetly are more readable |
| 23:55:43 | rasher | pixelma: no, you're dismissing something of being "too simple", when it's quite close to reality |
| 23:55:50 | rasher | this is not an opinion. |
| 23:56:24 | | Quit DarkDefender ("Leaving") |
| 23:56:31 | pixelma | I just compare to imagine mine |
| 23:56:37 | pixelma | +and |
| 23:57:03 | rasher | So because you write wpses where every line is terribly long, everyone else suffers? |
| 23:57:15 | rasher | Because you surely could never see a use for inline comments. |
| 23:57:21 | JdGordon| | you know what we *could* do.... add a control token to the start to define # behaviour for that wps |
| 23:57:25 | pixelma | sigh |
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| 23:57:37 | rasher | The longest code line I have in widecabbie.wps is 78 characters. |
| 23:57:43 | rasher | Most are less than 50 |
| 23:57:43 | JdGordon| | can we please ban the word "sigh" from irc? |
| 23:57:51 | rasher | Plenty of room for inline comments |
| 23:58:06 | rasher | That is, if we were allowed to have them. |
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