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#rockbox log for 2009-09-21

00:03:16 Quit bmbl ("Bye!")
00:03:54kugelBagder: bootlaoder 6.0
00:07:28 Quit HellDragon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:07:53 Join Zarggg_ [0] (
00:07:57 Join HellDragon [0] (i=jd@
00:08:29Bagdernow in bootloader/samsung/yh925/
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00:14:40kugelBagder: sending you fuze/e200v2 in a few minutes. I'm doing a last test, but my fuze isn't charged enough to survive a of update right now :)
00:16:39kugelgevaerts: are you fine if I remove the bootloader pp 6.0 tag and retag it? I'm going to finish off that branch in a few minutes (tagging 1.0 mkamsboot and ams bootloader, as well as yh925 bootloader)
00:17:08kugelI'd make yh925 == all pp bootloaders then
00:18:57kugelBagder: that one is in the correct directory, as opposed to the other PP bootloader ;)
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00:19:45Bagdernot all the others ;-)
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00:26:45gevaertskugel: can you actually remove a tag? Anyway, I don't think it matters very much, so if you promise not to break too much, go ahead :)
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00:26:54saratogaBagder: feel like uploading the PP bootloaders while you're at it?
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00:27:23kugelgevaerts: svn rm <url>
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00:28:01Bagderuploading the PP bootloaders?
00:28:06saratogawell moving them
00:28:19saratogai think the 5.0 ones just need to be moved in the e200, c200, etc directories
00:28:25saratoga"moved into"
00:28:30saratogaso that rbutil sees them
00:28:39gevaertssaratoga: 5.0?
00:28:46 Quit GeekShadow ("The cake is a lie !")
00:28:48saratogaisn't that the current version?
00:29:07gevaertsthe one we're trying to release is 6.0
00:29:38saratogathen use these instead:
00:29:59Bagderare the 6.0 ones those stored in pp-bootloaders?
00:32:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:32:19saratogaah i knew they were somewhere
00:32:41Bagderand is that sansapatcher 0.8?
00:33:17gevaertsI think so. It's been a while...
00:33:49Bagderah yes "sansapatcher v0.8 with v6.0 bootloaders"
00:33:57Bagderstrings is my friend
00:34:03saratogawindows version says that
00:34:26saratogacan finally stop getting people asking about those bootloaders!
00:34:48gevaertswould be nice :)
00:39:08saratogawhat are the YH players missing now? a manual?
00:39:20kugelwow, are you saying we got the bootloaders in the correct folder finally, after 2 month? :)
00:39:31kugelsaratoga: and recording
00:39:37Bagdera lesson for the next time someone makes a zip to put on the download server: put them in with a correct directory structure ;-)
00:39:41kugelI can't be bothered to look at it though
00:39:48saratogaso they can be made "stable" as soon as the manual is done?
00:39:51*gevaerts accepts all blame
00:39:52kugelit has a line in, but I'm still not very interested in recording after all
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00:40:47kugelsaratoga: if the hardware can do recording, it shouldn't go into stable before it's actually implemented imo
00:40:55saratogaactually the wiki says you don't need a manual to be stable, so I guess the YH players could be made "stable" whenever we want
00:41:07kugelsome players also have radio which isn't implemented
00:41:08saratogai don't think recording is required
00:41:20saratogathe ipods were supported for a while without it IIRC
00:41:38kugelwhat's the difference between stable and unstable if neither manual nor complete features are required?
00:41:52kugelwe didn't have that system back then
00:42:47saratogamight as well make them unstable then
00:42:48kugelwhat are your opinions on having 3.4 for unstable devices?
00:42:57saratogapersonally i am indifferent
00:43:12gevaertsI wouldn't
00:43:34saratogafor releases i favor whatever is easiest
00:44:07saratogais USB enabled on the ipods in 3.4 in any form?
00:44:30gevaertsit still is AFAIK, but I think it shouldn't
00:44:40saratogaby the way I was under the impression that some ipods do charge
00:44:47saratogais that not the case?
00:45:31*gevaerts has no idea
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00:49:37kugelsaratoga: I was under the impression that all charge, but not enough to "out-charge" the disk during heavy access
00:50:07saratogai think they don't charge at all, but do draw some power from the USB cable so they only discharge slowly
00:50:19saratogawell the video at least
00:50:23saratogai think some of the other may charge
00:52:19 Quit HellDragon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:52:53TheSevenfrom what I know, ipods always draw 100mA from the USB bus, but you can enable them to draw 500mA
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00:53:14TheSevenand even on a nano 2g, I managed to consume more than these 100mA
00:53:34 Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.)
00:53:35saratogayeah theres a patch to do that but no one has taken much interest in it
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00:54:12saratogadoes ROLO not work if you upload a new copy of the same svn revision?
00:55:15pixelmado you mean RoLo itself or the "changed" detection?
00:55:26saratogasorry the changed detection
00:58:10kugelit should. I think it just compares the write time of the file
00:59:13pixelmayou mean the time and date the file was created?
00:59:37pixelma(or saved to the disk)
01:00:04kugelisn't that the same thing on fat?
01:00:20kugelI mean saved to disk anyway
01:00:46saratogahmm looks like i had a bad zip so thats probably why
01:01:37pixelmasorry, sloppy asking. My question was more about clarification of "write time" what I misinterpreted first
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01:11:31kugelBagder: you have mail :)
01:11:55kugelsorry that it took so long, I was having (still having) problems with my VM
01:12:08kugellooks like he's gona already
01:13:35saratogafwiw the rbutil link on the install page doesn't work yet:
01:15:00saratogaah i guess bagder hasn't moved them yet
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01:33:01kugelsaratoga: it works, the download mirrors aren't up-to-date though
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02:58:30barqsHey, does anyone know if the Philips HDD 6330 is usable with rockbox yet?
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02:59:50scorchebarqs: see the front page
03:00:26scorcherasher: how about now?
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03:00:51rasherscorche: yep
03:01:00rasherAlready building
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03:01:42 Quit BlakeJohnson86 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:02:52rasherno e200v2 in tools/checkwps/targets.txt though
03:03:04scorchethat might help...
03:03:05barqsscorche: I guess the only thing missing from it is the ability to install through rbutil.. Guess that means it's not usable yet]
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03:04:57rashertoo late for me to fix that
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03:24:34bfrDoes anybody know if rockbox works on a sansa E280R ?
03:25:37krazykitbfr, it clearly states on the front page that it does
03:26:07bfrAlright, I must have clearly over-looked it.
03:27:05bfrwhat USB mode must this use?
03:27:37krazykitthe manual explains the installation procedure better than i could
03:28:41bfrI tried it, but my mp3 keeps connecting and disconnecting
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03:51:00*gevaerts feels a bit sleepy
03:56:28bfrMy sansa keeps saying its connected and disconnected on the screen of the mp3 player, can i get some help please?
03:57:17AB3JUI seem to remember it does that based on when data is transferred and not being anything to worry about
03:57:28bfrok, thanks
03:58:06bfrit got me worried becuase when i try to install it, it says (not responding) on the computer
03:58:26bfrwait, no sansa detected, i read something about that, brb
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04:10:30bfryeah, it says no sansa detected and i have V1 of the firmware
04:11:29robin0800_bfr: is the player in msc mode?
04:13:29bfrit is in msc
04:13:39robin0800_bfr: what sansa player is it
04:13:56bfrits an E280
04:14:27robin0800_bfr: not a e280r?
04:14:56bfrit says it on the back, but it said if it was my usb modes would be differant
04:15:49robin0800_bfr: and what have you tried so far ?
04:15:58bfrmostly all
04:16:22bfrit says no sansa detected
04:17:04robin0800_is the rockbox bootloader on the player?
04:17:43bfrohh, its installing now, thats new, so hold on, lol
04:17:53bfrthanks for your help so far dude, big help
04:18:18bfrit said disk is not a sansa, aborting
04:19:02robin0800_bfr: what computer os?
04:20:35robin0800_bfr: you must be administrator to install the bootloader
04:20:47bfrI am
04:20:48bfrand i g2g
04:20:52bfrill be on tomorrow
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10:32:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:38:54CIA-43New commit by vitja (r22762): bootloader/telechips: disable irqs before jumping to rockbox
10:53:26CIA-43New commit by vitja (r22763): ata-nand-telechips: tcc77x have now USEC_TIMER
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11:14:58*funman just pinged again the austriamicrosystems marketing product manager about the Clipv2/Fuzev2 (and Clip+ ?) datasheet
11:16:30 Join casainho [0] (
11:19:47casainhoWe are 2 developers that bought a cheap and powerfull dev board ( )
11:20:18casainhoI would like to know if we create Rockbox patches, they will be accepted for the Rockbox SVN?
11:20:40 Quit antil33t ()
11:21:39funmancasainho: all patches are reviewed first, and then discussed, rejected, or accepted
11:24:19 Join Bob_ [0] (
11:24:25Bob_hi all
11:26:30casainhohi bob_ :-)
11:26:56casainhofunman: ok, but would be interested for Rockbox project to have such pacthes?
11:27:32funmanwhy not? you are going to write the patch anyway even if they are not accepted, right ?
11:28:27casainhosince we are 2 developers, me and bob_, we are thinking on having our source tree but at the same time we should have it updated with Rockbox SVN, and I think that is not possible
11:28:49casainhobob_ , can you please explain better? (my bad english)
11:31:06TheSevenyou can always generate patches from the rockbox svn and apply them to your svn
11:32:21casainhoTheSeven: that's the best way to deal with this problem?
11:32:36Bob_sure. let me say I am completely new to rockbox and don't know the development style. So for me it's a question of fitting in with that, but at the same time not generating unneccessary work for either Rockbox guys, or us for that matter
11:32:45TheSevenor (the way I do it, but that only works for a single developer) just keep your working copy updated
11:33:58funmanBob_: usually port-specific code doesn't affect other parts of the code, and is under the responsability of the persons writing this port
11:36:48casainhoso, we can make a diff (patch) from Rockbox SVN and our SVN tree. After apply the patch on our SVN tree and we will have our tree updated with Rockbox? looks simple
11:38:33casainhook, later I will try this and when we have the Rockbox Kernel blinking a LED, we can submit the first pacth.
11:39:08Bob_In principle, we (Lyre) can keep our SVN updated so that it tracks the latest Rockbox code. Then, the difference between the two trees are the Lyre mods.
11:39:17funmanFUCK YEAH
11:39:23funmani have the datasheet
11:40:04Bob_Hmm, is a blinking LED useful to Rockbox? Just askin!
11:40:13TheSevenwell, that
11:40:25funmanBob_: various targets have a led to indicate disk/storage access
11:40:26TheSeventhat's the starting point for everything else, isn't it?
11:40:50Bob_True, all my projects start with a blink led, lol
11:41:14TheSevenonce you've done that, you'll know that your build and target setup is at least mostly right
11:41:33casainhowell, I just mean that with blink LED we know that Rockbox kernel is working
11:42:10casainho( I did this before with the other prototype −− at least I learned something ;-) )
11:43:37casainhoI must leave now −− thank you all
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11:44:41Bob_What i am thinking is that stuf specific to our prototypes is only useful for us. If we write a new driver coded or LCD say, that would be a "standard" thing that could be useful for future Rockbox ports, even if our prototype becomes a dead end (which tends to happen to prototypes)
11:45:06Bob_Oh, he's gone.
11:47:17Bob_Anyway, I would like to get up to speed with the hardware and software, then maybe I can make more intelligent suggestions. Right now I just have general principles and a lot of speculation.
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11:56:15funmanbut .. the AS3531 registers don't seem to match the Clipv2 ... :(
11:57:04funmanthe base registers are _very_ different from as3525
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11:59:02funmani am quite disappointed
11:59:42foolshsorry to hear that funman
12:00:18markunfoolsh: that really sucks :( you think we can still get rockbox running with REin alone?
12:00:35markunthat was for funman
12:01:06TheSevenmarkun: theoretically, you can always do that
12:01:17funmanmarkun: of course but with much more work
12:02:10funmanthe SoC could be another of AS353x series (one of the 2 with a h264 decoder chip), or a modified AS3525 (since the OF has a "AS3525" string in it)
12:02:33funmanI don't want to ask details to austriamicrosystems since it is their private business
12:02:39Bob_Cbye all, have fun ;)
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12:32:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:43:24CIA-43New commit by alle (r22764): Improvements to the viewers section of the manual (FS #10531 by David Kaufmann)
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12:50:17funmanat least the i2c registers seem to be similar to clipv2
12:50:22funmanand that is a real help
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12:52:36fmlAlexP: you seem to have added a contibutor's name to a wrong CREDITS file
12:53:14AlexPYeah, I forgot about the manual one
12:53:23AlexPIncidently, there is a typo in your commit
12:53:29moosfunman: hi, alleluia for the datasheet, you get it at end!
12:53:37fmlAlexP: should we remove the name from the other one?
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12:54:06AlexPfml: I guess so, yes
12:54:18fmlAlexP: where? Can you fix it?
12:54:21funmanmoos: yes, they sent me under the same conditions than for as3525 : keep it confidential, no public access, but it can be shared between trusted developers and used for our (gpl) project
12:54:36AlexPfml: You have ``playing''the in plugins/main.tex
12:54:48AlexPfml: Not a vital problem :)
12:55:11funmani want to edit the austriamicrosystems wiki page to show their long help to rockbox
12:55:36moosfunman: nice, still the same contact? The one that make you waiting long
12:55:42funmani don't mean they contributed directly but they were communicative enough
12:55:56funmani just pinged him today and he immediately answered with the datasheet attached
12:56:26funmani hope next time we can direct them to their wiki entry and speed up the process ;)
12:56:59CIA-43New commit by alle (r22765): Fix typo (add a space)
12:57:21AlexPfml: Also, in ppmviewer.tex I see a } added but not another one removed - is that right?
12:57:24moosfunman: don't hope too much ;)
12:57:38AlexPfml: Shall I sort out the credits thing or do you want to?
12:57:40CIA-43New commit by alle (r22766): The name should have been added to the other CREDITS file
12:57:50AlexPaha :)
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12:58:23funmanhm the i2c registers are listed but their bits are not detailed
12:59:19CIA-43New commit by alle (r22767): Fix unbalanced braces
12:59:36fmlAlexP: thanks for spotting! But it somehow compiled here.
12:59:44AlexPno worries :)
13:00:17AlexPI didn't try to build it actually, I don't have access at the moment
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13:03:16AlexPfml: I'm not actually sure why we have a seperate manual credits file - IMO contribution to any part of Rockbox should be recognised
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13:03:24AlexPhehe, too late :)
13:05:04funmani found a fuzev2 disassembly on rockbox wiki but i can't tell how much (about) pins is the BGA
13:05:22funmancan't find clipv2 pics, and the clip+ disassembly on ABI lacks what's under the LCD
13:05:59moosAlexP: hi, indeed. I didn't understand his last commit
13:06:17AlexPWhich one?
13:06:18funmani don't want to open my clipv2, but if you know any pictures floating around / or have an opened clipv2 it might be interesting to know
13:14:54moosAlexP: the credit one
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13:25:29AlexPmoos: I committed a manual patch yesterday and added the author to CREDITS not CREDITS-MANUAL so he just removed the name from CREDITS and put it in CREDITS-MANUAL
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13:31:07moosAlexP: ok, just bizzare to see him removed from rockbox credits after a rockbox contribution. But that is the maining of this credits-manual, and I don't know if he contributed something else
13:31:42AlexPNo, only this. I don't actually see why we have a seperate manual one, I think everyone should be in the same CREDITS file
13:32:12moosmy thought too
13:37:30ZagorI agree
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13:48:39AlexPI'll change it in a bit
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14:27:00AlexPDo we want to kill credits-manual altogether and move everyone that isn't already there into credits? I think so, but thoughts?
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14:37:58ZagorAlexP: I can't think of a reason not to.
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15:17:34rasherMaybe because the manual is a separate work, and in case of relicensing it would be useful to have a list of people
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15:25:09mooswe could just keep the 2 files, but add peoples missing (if there are any) on rockbox's one
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16:01:14kugelAlexP: I agree too
16:01:32kugelthis way the the manual contributions show up in Rockbox' info screen too
16:02:03kugelZagor: can you sync www/ and the actual website? I was about to add yh925 to unstable but www/ is outdated
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16:09:15kugelfunman: modified as3525 sounds....unlikely
16:09:36kugelwell, unlikely that sandisk modified it
16:09:48kugelbut they possibly got an exclusive contract with AMS
16:10:24kugelwhich in turn made a as3525v2 just for sandisk
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16:11:23funmani could try asking the as3530 & as3536 datasheet to see if there are similarities
16:11:34funmani'm not sure about what I can ask to this guy without bothering him
16:12:47funmanand btw the website says AS353x have 512kB of iram
16:14:21funmanthe as3527 uses a arm922T, not a arm926ejs like clipv2/as353x
16:16:05funmanand i found at least one undocumented bit (bit 12 of "CCU_IO" used in clipv2, while CCU_IO is at the same address in as3525 & as3527)
16:16:47Zagorkugel: done
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16:16:58kugelhow do you know the addresses for as3527 (never heard of that one)?
16:17:26kugelfunman: didn't he indicate that the datasheet won't help us for the v2 samsas?
16:17:33funmanyes he suggested htat
16:17:43funmankugel: the as3527 datasheet is freely available
16:18:05kugelyou may humbly tell him he was right and ask him carefully for some hints
16:18:47kugelif we're lucky, he may be feeling a bit guilty his late answer
16:19:36kugelis the as3531 at least not that misdesigned in terms of GPIO and DBOP dual mapping/wirering?
16:19:42robin0800Any one any Idea whats going on here is he right 32Mb is much slower than 64Mb
16:19:55kugelZagor: What's needed to add it to the build page? just adding it to and daily.t?
16:20:23Tornerobin0800: shouldn't be
16:20:29kugelbtw, I was almost able to build the page on windows. sed crapped out at some point
16:21:07gevaertsrobin0800: depends. If you skip a lot, I think you'll see a difference. Otherwise, I wouldn't see why
16:21:30Tornerobin0800: anything where having a larger audio buffer helps will be faster
16:21:37Tornenormal playback, or skipping by a small number of tracks.
16:21:39TorneNothing else.
16:21:41kugelI was wondering if that fcpp is actually still used by you, the make files in some subfolders don't really work with it
16:22:06TorneThe guy on the forums probably has a different build/settings/etc without realising, or is just imagining it :)
16:22:17Tornethere's no reason why the UI should run any differently
16:22:19Zagorkugel: just for current build. for daily builds.
16:22:37Torne(and it's not a "theory" as he suggests; we know what ram is used for, funnily enough) :)
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16:22:50kugelrobin0800: that largely looks like placebo to me
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16:26:40kugelhe may be right about the track skip thing he told
16:28:05kugelZagor: it's in already, just without a proper pic
16:28:37kugelis "rockbox100.png" automagically not showin up?
16:29:32kugelthat could explain why the source 7z is gone
16:30:00Zagorkugel: no it is added for target that don't have a small image
16:30:14Zagorsource is gone because the archive isn't currently built
16:30:28kugelthere are a few targets in which don't show in the current build page
16:30:49Zagorsuch as?
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16:31:41funmankugel: the problem is what we can ask exactly so he doesn't break the NDA he might have agreed on
16:32:22funmanI wouldn't ask him to give us any information on the deal between AMS & SanDisk, including the chips used
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16:32:49kugelZagor: all samsungs, all creatives
16:32:57funmanperhaps "which SoC is using an arm926ejs and 0xC80* as base addresses" ?
16:32:59Zagorfunman: you can ask anything, he just can't answer everything. it is not your/our responsibility to uphold his agreement.
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16:33:13kugelall the yh samsungs (forgot we have another one in the pipes)
16:33:23rasherZagor: it's in our interest to ask questions which are likely to be answered though
16:33:54Zagorrasher: yes, but surely he can just say "sorry I can't answer that" rather than us having to guess what he can and cannot say?
16:34:15kugelit's also in our interest that we don't ask questions which an accidental answer gets him fired
16:34:25funmanoh and I must not forget to top-post :)
16:34:37evilnickYeah, ask whatever would be most useful and he'd be able to only answer the ones that he can.
16:34:57*kugel thinks Zagor's question is a nice one
16:35:21ZagorI have a question? :)
16:35:23kugelno nick coloring failed me.
16:35:38kugelfunman: I think that's a good question :)
16:36:26kugelZagor: you didn't commit anythin to www/ did you?
16:37:08kugelI meant to ask you to push your local website changes to www/, since building the page gives me the one of a week ago
16:37:53funmandamn and I can't access my disassembly to get details, since Ubuntu Karmic doesn't ship libstdc++5 anymore. I'll put this mail on hold
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16:41:01CIA-43New commit by zagor (r22768): Changes for the new site location
16:42:47CIA-43New commit by zagor (r22769): Show total build count if all builds are green
16:43:18CIA-43New commit by zagor (r22770): Added build_running flag file
17:03:07kugelZagor: heh, now all the targets show on the current build page
17:03:19Zagoryeah, I tweaked it
17:03:30kugelI don't think creatives and philips are meant to be there already though
17:03:31Zagorthat script is unfortunately not in svn yet
17:04:49Zagorthere, better sorting
17:07:21CIA-43New commit by zagor (r22771): Added new playerpics. Added cowond2 to model list.
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17:14:17casainhohello :-)
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17:22:03casainhoI checkedout Rockbox source, and now I would like to start creating a directory where I can put my code and also updated to another SVN, how can I do it? −− I was trying doing a diff between Rockbox directory and another empty directory, but it do not works...
17:25:03AsaelReiterWhy do you need another SVN?
17:25:46AsaelReiterWhat bad about "svn diff"?
17:27:15casainhobecause I am porting Rockbox and we are 2 guys working on it, so, we have our SVN
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17:28:13Torneif you want to work tha tway you would do better to use a distributed vcs which can branch from svn (git, bzr, etc)
17:28:19casainhoI tough I could make a kind of a diff from original Rockbox source
17:28:42casainhoTorne: can you please explain a litlle better?
17:29:15casainhowe are using, which have SVN
17:30:48Torneyou're sharing/updating a diff against the rockbox code, right?
17:30:53 Quit Rondom (
17:30:58TorneThat's not a very easy way to work.
17:31:14Tornemost distributed version control systems are able to create a branch which is a copy of a subversion branch
17:31:27Torneand then you can work in that, including pulling changes to rockbox into it
17:31:38casainhoyes, I were doing like that but now we will start again, so, I would prefer a better way
17:31:40Tornegit/bzr/hg/etc can all do this
17:32:04casainhoso, I can't use the SVN on
17:32:25Tornesvn doesn't support distributed branches, so if you wanted to work like that then no.
17:32:33Tornegoogle will host hg for you, though
17:32:52Torneso you could do it there with hg, and the HgSubversion plugin
17:32:59casainhoso, what would be the best way to work, using google.code?
17:33:19casainhohg? I don't know what is it
17:33:30Tornealso known as hg
17:33:43Torne(the chemical symbol for mercury)
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17:35:11casainhook, I am on that page. So, what are the steps I should do? sorry, I am really new to this. I just used SVN before but smaal use
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17:39:24Torneyou should read up about DVCS and how to work with distributed branches, and pick a tool you like and are comfortable with :)
17:39:42Torne*then* pick a project hosting service that supports that tool, if you have nowhere else to put it.
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17:40:14Tornegit, bzr and mercurial can all branch from subversion. Others probably can too but I've not used them. :)
17:41:14casainhook. I am reading on google.code, on how to convert actual SVN to HG
17:41:48Torneno, it's not about *converting*
17:41:55casainhoafter I will try to use HG with and I hope then to see the advantages to use it, instead of SVN, for my project
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17:42:23casainhoI am reading this page:
17:42:31TorneYes, that's to convert *your existing* svn to hg
17:42:38Tornethat's nothing to do with what i'm tlaking about
17:42:48Tornehg has a plugin where it can access subversion repositories.
17:42:59Torneso, you can create a hg branch which is based on the actual Rockbox svn
17:43:18Tornethen whenever you update that branch you will get the latest Rockbox code from our trunk
17:43:28Torneand you can merge that into your hg branch on an ongoing basis
17:43:33casainhook, seems simple
17:43:33Torneno need to create patches
17:44:01Bob_CHey all. I'm not sure I understand!
17:44:25Torneah, oh.
17:44:31casainhoyes Bob, try to understand so we can do it togheter
17:44:42TorneOne thing you might want to note is that the hgsubversion plugin is currently listed as "Not suitable for production use" :)
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17:44:49Torneyou might find bzr or git to be better ;)
17:45:01Tornebzr-svn and git-svn are both very widely used and stable
17:45:16casainhook, but the question is to use, which seems to suport only HG
17:45:44Torneyou shouldn't choose what tools to use based on what google lwill give you :)
17:45:50Torneyou should choose tools that do what you need
17:45:55*Bob_C drinking potion of +1 understanding
17:46:00Tornethen find a place that will host that ;)
17:46:13Tornethere are numerous project hosting sites which support bzr and/or git
17:46:52casainhoTorne: ok, thanks, but I would prefer to continue with
17:46:52 Quit AsaelReiter ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:47:56Tornes'your thing
17:48:31Torne <- hgsubversion here, including warnings about it being in refactoring at the moment
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17:51:16Bob_CI'm happy to do whatever you decide, if that helps
17:51:22Tornei don't use hg much, so can't help other than that :)
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18:00:22casainhoTorne: "and you can merge that into your hg branch on an ongoing basis", so, If I use hg to "checkout" Rockbox sources, can I create a kind of a patch from Rockbox one and our Lyre one?
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18:01:30Torneyou can create an actual patch, if you want
18:01:32Tornebut there is no need to
18:01:34JdGordondomonoky: re my mac... I'm home in 10 days.. I'll reinstall it and not put ~ on a aseprate partition so it doesnt happen again... I'll do my best to save the current ~ but is there anything on there that would be bad to lose?
18:01:46 Quit petur ("work->....")
18:01:48Torneyour hg branch would contain the entire rockbox code, including your changes
18:01:58Torneand every time you pull from the rockbox trunk it would be updated to the latest.
18:02:02Tornemerging in your changes
18:02:12domonokyJdGordon: nothing bad to loose. i just have to setup the build enviroment again then.
18:03:03domonokyJdGordon: i also used it with broken home-directory to build the new rbutil release. it worked :-) (using the home directory in USers_backup/domonoky)
18:03:28casainhoTorne: ok, but that looks like the same to me as If I were using SVN. How can I "link" my hg branch to the branch on hg?
18:03:46Tornethat is your branch, no?
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18:06:31casainhoTorne: so, if change some code, how can I create a patch for Rockbox flyspry?
18:07:05casainhoif my branch is the one from (using HG)...
18:07:12 Quit Strife89 ("ClIRC - IRC client for Nintendo DS")
18:07:15Tornethe vcs will give you some way to diff the branch against the branch it's branched from :)
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18:08:04casainhooh, confusion on my head :-)
18:09:39Tornego read the manual for hg first
18:09:45Torneunderstand how a distributed VCS works
18:09:59Torneit's not the same as svn
18:10:39casainhook, I will :-) thanks
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18:54:37Blue_DudeHey, I have a last minute bugfix for v3.4. How do I apply it?
18:56:17JdGordon|checkout the 3.4 branch and commit as normal
18:57:09LloreanIs it critical though?
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19:00:36Blue_DudeIt's a potential fix for FS #10572. Garbage output when timestretch and limiter are used together.
19:01:00Blue_DudeIt won't crash the player, but it's critical enough.
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19:01:06LloreanThat seems more like a "known issue" type problem than a "critical fix" doesn't it?
19:01:22domonokyBlue_Dude: make sure to apply it to both branches, 3.4 and trunk :-)
19:01:50Blue_DudeI was going to apply it to trunk first to test it out. Then if it works for certain, apply it to the branch.
19:01:59gevaertssounds like a plan
19:02:12gevaertsIs USB still enabled for ipods on the branch?
19:02:17LloreanThe whole point of the branch is that the code isn't supposed to change after the branch until it's really critical.
19:02:33LloreanWhat's the point in having the branch if any bugfix can still go in? May as well just not branch, right?
19:02:44 Quit GodEater (Remote closed the connection)
19:02:48Llorean*unless it's really...
19:03:32JdGordon|I would call that a playback issue, and high enough to go in the rel branch
19:03:46JdGordon|assuming it doesnt add more problems
19:04:06*dionoea thought that the whole point of having branches was to be able to apply all the bugfixes but not the new features (at least that's how we do it for VLC)
19:04:25domonokyif the risks are pretty low for this patch, i would think its fine to go into 3.4
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19:04:41LloreanJdGordon|: That's the thing though. We know what the issue is right now and it's relatively easy to avoid. The fix could cause unknown issues that won't show up immediately.
19:04:42CIA-43New commit by blue_dude (r22772): Potential fix for FS #10572: limiter + time stretch produces garbage output
19:05:52Blue_DudeThe problem is that I didn't allocate enough room to one buffer. The problem didn't manifest itself until timestretch was enabled, which required more room in an output buffer than I was able to give it.
19:06:27Blue_DudeFairly small fix, but it costs RAM.
19:06:58gevaertslooks risk-free enough to me
19:07:52Blue_DudeNow we'll see if allocating more IRAM is going to be a problem...
19:07:55 Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
19:08:52Blue_DudeCan someone test this on target? I don't have one available for testing at the moment...
19:09:55Blue_DudeYeah, full IRAM. I was afraid of that...
19:11:56Blue_DudeAny ideas?
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19:16:11Blue_DudeI'm going to see what removing that buffer from IRAM will do to performance.
19:16:49TheSevenist it just a single target that's affected by this?
19:17:01Blue_Dude3 low IRAM targets are hit.
19:17:23Blue_Dudeipod 4G and h100/120
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19:19:48TheSevenipod 4g is a pp5520?
19:21:11TheSevenif it's a -02, moving that to DRAM will really hurt.
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19:29:11funman why aren't samsung YH-* not in unstable category? the TargetStatus is all green
19:30:27funmanit is nice to see work on Sansa Connect, I wish I could find a cheap device in Europe
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19:32:39LloreanBlue_Dude: If you don't have a fix for it, are you going to revert it until you do?
19:33:02Blue_DudeYeah. I'm checking it out right now.
19:33:28GodEaterfunman: buy on from AlexP ? :)
19:34:58funmanAlexP: are you selling Sansa Connect ?
19:36:15AlexPno, I have one but not to sell
19:36:38GodEatereverything is for sale
19:36:45AlexPwell yes
19:36:54GodEaterit's just that the price is not always attractive :)
19:39:35bertrikwell, DX basically has everything and for cheap
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19:45:58CIA-43New commit by blue_dude (r22773): Fix red: remove buffer from IRAM
19:46:48funmanis it the responsibility of lowlight to decide if YH-* are "unstable" ?
19:47:08Blue_DudeOK, I tried removing the buffer from IRAM and the performance hit on a E200 was pretty minimal. I'm not sure if other targets will be hit harder.
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19:50:47funmanIMO the YH* could even be supported targets, the only difference with other targets being the manual availability ?
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19:51:49AlexPBlue_Dude: I believe they will
19:51:55AlexPFrom what I remember
19:52:05AlexPBlue_Dude: I can test on coldfire if that helps
19:52:09Blue_DudeI have no way of testing that.
19:52:16AlexPBlue_Dude: You can ask
19:52:20Blue_DudeGive it a try! Let me know.
19:52:31Blue_DudePretty please?
19:52:33AlexPBlue_Dude: And there is a testing page in the wiki listing who has what so you can ask people to test
19:52:44AlexPBlue_Dude: What am I testing?
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19:53:42Blue_DudeI need to see if removing that buffer from IRAM generates an unacceptable performance hit.
19:53:59AlexPsure, but how do I test that?
19:54:20 Quit _zic (Remote closed the connection)
19:54:21AlexPI assume I'm looking at the differencde 22771 - 22773
19:54:36AlexPBut how specifically do I get the performance figures?
19:54:41Blue_DudeTry a large limiter setting on a loud file. Use test codec to see how much time it takes to decode.
19:54:52AlexPAny specific format?
19:55:06Blue_DudeDo a check of the same file with 22771. Then with 22773.
19:55:12Blue_DudeFormat doesn't matter.
19:55:36AlexPno problem, I'll do it now
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19:56:07Blue_DudeI did that with an e200 and there was almost no change at all.
19:56:33AlexPIRAM makes a big - very little difference depending on target
19:56:48AlexPbut you'ld have to ask amiconn for details of which :)
19:57:32Blue_DudeThat's the great unknown right now.
19:58:25Blue_DudeI'm just happy it compiled, but by fixing the problem of timestretch + limiter, I might have made the limited unusable on some targets. :(
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19:59:22AlexPWe'll see, but if that is the case I'd say it is better to have them both working albeit independently
19:59:49HillshumCan we get them to be different depending on target?
19:59:51Blue_DudeI agree. But how to know which ones to test?
20:00:13AlexPBlue_Dude: processor I'd guess
20:00:15Blue_DudeHillshum, yes but that's a can of worms. Possible though.
20:01:06amiconnBlue_Dude: IRAM makes almost no difference on PP502x targets, a significant difference on PP5002 targets, and a huuge difference on coldfire tarets
20:01:12Blue_DudeI can do a conditional compile, but I might not have the right defines available.
20:01:35Blue_DudeWell, maybe AlexP can provide the best answer.
20:01:50Blue_DudeIf it works for him, that would be the worst case?
20:02:01AlexPI believe the early ipods are the worst case
20:02:05amiconnThis is due to PP502x having efficient, properly functioning cache, PP5002 having efficient, but broken cache (one waitstate, making it twice as slow as IRAM), and coldfire having no data cache at all
20:02:19AlexPBlue_Dude: see :)
20:02:37AlexPamiconn: So coldfire is likely to be the worst?
20:03:09amiconnI'm not sure about the effect of IRAM on other swcodec targets - most of them have some IRAM, but often it isn't used by rockbox (e.g. on the Gigabeat F/X)
20:03:30HillshumShould I test a Clip?
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20:03:47Blue_Dudeamiconn: are there DEFINE settings that I can use to cull out only those targets that won't compile?
20:03:48amiconnOn SH1 IRAM also makes a difference, but that's hwcodec, hence out of the equation for dsp
20:04:00AlexPBlue_Dude: I've built, I'm currently trying to get my H100 to mount
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20:07:19Blue_DudeHillshum, you can try a clip. I think that the system is similar enough that you won't see much of a hit.
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20:21:13AlexPBlue_Dude: speed test with dsp I assume?
20:21:32Blue_DudeYes indeed.
20:21:48AlexPok, one mo :)
20:21:53Blue_DudeMake sure you enable the limiter first...
20:22:22Blue_DudeAnd use a file that's already loud.
20:23:02AlexPhmmm, I have no idea what files are loud
20:23:17AlexPeverything is replaygained (which I've turned off for this)
20:24:44Blue_DudeYou can use replaygain to make it loud.
20:25:24Blue_DudeReplaygain preamps too, so that will help. We're trying to make the thing work as hard as possible.
20:25:49AlexPI've turned replaygain preamp up to 12, and put the limiter on 8
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20:27:07Blue_DudeYou have noclip enable for replaygain I presume?
20:27:45AlexPleave that on?
20:27:48Blue_DudeOK, good.
20:28:09AlexPwoohoo, I got it to mount \o/
20:30:14AlexPI really dislike this w/ nomenclature - I never know if it is meant to mean with or without
20:32:26AlexPThings like speed test w/ dsp - is that with our without (I know now, but everywhere you see it it means the opposite)
20:32:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:33:44amiconnw/ always means "with", w/o means without. I know no different meaning...
20:33:59amiconnNo 'o', no -out
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20:34:26AlexPamiconn: That isn't always followed
20:34:46AlexPand it is a silly abbreviation anyway
20:35:03Blue_DudeThat was the original nomenclature. I see no good reason why it can't be spelled out though.
20:35:22AlexPBlue_Dude: I'm not complaining at anyone in particular, just in general :)
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20:42:09AlexPr22771 - 255.81% r22773 - 241% so looks not too bad in the end :) (on H140)
20:42:17AlexP@ Blue_Dude
20:42:42Blue_DudeThat's not bad at all.
20:43:16Blue_DudeIt's a hit for sure, but it's not like 120% down to 90%.
20:43:43amiconnThat's for mp3 I presume. It will be different for other formats
20:43:46Blue_DudeOK, let's keep this version.
20:44:24Blue_Dudemp3 is probably worst case for decode speed. There's plenty of margin with those numbers.
20:44:40AlexPamiconn: Yes, mp3
20:44:45amiconnNo it's not; it depends on target architecture
20:45:03amiconnOn coldfire, mp3 is pretty efficient
20:45:04AlexPamiconn: Do you know which is likely to be worst on coldfire?
20:45:23AlexP(save ape)
20:45:38*amiconn was about to mention ape :)
20:45:43 Quit parafin ("So long and thanks for all the fish")
20:45:58amiconnBut ape at high levels is worst on all targets
20:46:22Blue_DudeWould ape be bad enough *not* to keep this version?
20:46:46Blue_Dude256% down to 241% looks acceptable to me...
20:46:48amiconnThere were two formats where speed order was different between coldfire and PP.
20:47:08amiconnOne of them was mp3, but I don't remember the other
20:47:39AlexPBlue_Dude: :)
20:47:39amiconnBlue_Dude: I agree, but then faster is always better (as long as it's not broken of course)
20:47:42Blue_DudeWhat's the address to check out the 3.4 branch?
20:47:55AlexPBlue_Dude: There was a mail to the dev list with it
20:48:05Blue_DudeI'll go back and check...
20:48:50amiconnAlexP: Reminds me - I wanted to make APE -c2000 realtime on PP (by going dualcore)
20:49:16AlexPgood luck :)
20:50:28amiconnWell, it's not far off. APE decoding consists of 3 stages - entropy decoding, filtering, and the predictor. -c1000 does no filtering at all, and the higher levels add more and more filtering
20:50:31AlexPogg with r22773 is 150 % on coldfire
20:51:05Blue_DudeYep, there it is...
20:51:07amiconnIf I put filtering on the COP, -c2000 would be as fast as -c1000 is now
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20:51:39amiconnBut I'd like to make -c3000 realtime as well, and that will be hard
20:52:19amiconnWith the dualcore split, -c1000 should be almost 200% realtime on PP
20:52:36amiconn(putting the predictor on the COP too)
20:52:53Blue_DudeI'm going to apply this patch to v3.4 to clear FS #10572. Is there anything special to do other than commit it?
20:53:13AlexPOne mo, I'm just checking ogg
20:53:25AlexPbut no, just commit from the brach
20:54:51Blue_Dudestill checking out the branch. :)
20:56:09AlexPogg is fine too 156.5% - 150%
20:56:24AlexPor vorbis rather
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21:04:42CIA-43New commit by blue_dude (r22774): Fixes FS #10572: Timestretch + limiter is broken
21:04:57Blue_DudeThat should do it.
21:07:31Blue_DudeThanks for the help, guys.
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21:37:22Grahacksomebody noticed the encoding problem of ? Is it ok if I try to fix it ? BTW, are there only commiters in this list ?
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21:39:48domonoky1Grahack: feel free to fix.
21:40:10CIA-43New commit by amiconn (r22775): Fix splash on charcell (was wasting 2 precious chars per line since r20870). This fixes the volume splash in wps, as it doesn't wrap anymore, but it's ...
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21:40:35*amiconn slaps kugel a bit
21:41:21amiconnNow I need to checkout & fix the branch :\
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21:43:18kugelseems like a critical bug!
21:43:59amiconnWell, it wastes 2 out of 11 chars per line, for all splashes...
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21:45:32JdGordon|oh noes!
21:45:37domonoky1thats nearly 20% of waste.
21:46:38CIA-43New commit by amiconn (r22776): Fix splash on charcell (was wasting 2 precious chars per line since r20870). This fixes the volume splash in wps, as it doesn't wrap anymore, but it's ...
21:47:39kugelA real release breaker :) But yea, seems I overlooked a single (out of a dozen) usages of that #defines where it wasn't used for bitmap only Sorry
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21:48:04domonoky1kugel: life is hard... :-)
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21:50:09*kugel tries to blame the fact that we have more #ifdefs for that Player than total users :p
21:51:01amiconnThat's partially an artificial problem
21:51:01domonoky1how cares about users ? :-)
21:51:03gevaertskugel: I'm sure that that's true for more than the Player
21:51:11DavidKauffmannHey, Alexander Levin got my name wrong, Alex parker got it right. if anyone could fix this minor issue in docs/credits? It's spelled with 2 FFs Kauffmann
21:51:18pixelmakugel: I was made aware of that bug (the broken Vol: splash) by a user in the forums... which is not amiconn :P
21:51:35amiconnLooks like wps viewports are (unnecessarily) excluded for charcell
21:51:45AlexPDavidKauffmann: Yes, will do - I'm about to have a fiddle with CREDITS anyway
21:52:03kugelyea, viewports for 11x2 seems totally usefull
21:52:19DavidKauffmannthanks and thanks for adding the patch. have a nice day.
21:52:21pixelmakugel: less ifefs. as. you. say
21:52:27pixelmaifdefs too
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21:52:48amiconnEven if it's not that useful, it would save ifdefs. Even more than just those in the viewport code itself
21:52:50kugelI think I haven't even seen a single .wps for the Player at all (except the default one)
21:52:55gevaertskugel: why would they be less useful depending on resolution?
21:53:12AlexPSo as brought up earlier I'd like to move people who are only in credits-manual into credits and bin credits-manual - I don't see why it is seperate. Any objections?
21:53:41amiconnThis update_onvol_change() only exists because of that "Vol:" splash on charcell - that splash could be implemented using a viewport, and the whole function with its #ifdef removed
21:53:51kugelgevaerts: that may be true, but I claim the ratio is worst on the Player
21:53:52gevaertsviewports make managing screen space easier, so if anything they would be more useful
21:54:03pixelmakugel: which is the default one? And then you didn't look closely enough
21:54:12kugelit feels like the win ratio to win in the lottery was lower
21:54:21*gevaerts claims that viewports are more useful on the Player than on the ipod video
21:54:41kugelwhatever, I'm all for less #ifdefs
21:54:53pixelmanice turn
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22:00:19MG_ManI noticed the Fuze got added to
22:00:23MG_ManAnd it has no themes
22:00:34AlexPyes, it has no checkwps yet
22:00:38AlexPas far as I am aware
22:00:38MG_ManHas nobody realized all iPod Color/irivr h300 skins are compatible?
22:00:54JdGordon|oh my GOD! you're freeing KIDDING!?
22:00:59 Join wincent2 [0] (n=wincent@
22:01:15MG_ManI was just wondering
22:01:41JdGordon|click both... amazingly they will both show the same thmes
22:01:54MG_ManI meant, as in
22:01:58MG_ManThey are compatible with the Fuze
22:02:01MG_ManSame resolution
22:02:16pixelmaexcept ones that include RWPSs I think
22:02:26MG_Manwell yes
22:02:33MG_Manbut the iPod color doesn't have that either
22:02:39pixelmamaybe I remembered wrong though
22:02:42MG_ManI think it's allowed but not used
22:03:10JdGordon|why on earth is the e200 and e200v2 split on the theme site? that makes no sense
22:03:32JdGordon|ditto the ipod mini's
22:03:40MG_ManAlso, the first theme's screenshot seems to be broken
22:04:33AlexPSo it does
22:04:37*AlexP prods rasher
22:05:40JdGordon|thats been there for months
22:05:53JdGordon|oh, no. different one
22:06:19rasherJdGordon|: merging them means more special-casing everywhere
22:06:33JdGordon|fair enough, but it seems silly
22:06:40*rasher shrugs
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22:08:04rasherAlexP: hm, weird.. that theme is not in the filesystem at all :\
22:08:25AlexPheh, nice :)
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22:10:54rasheroh err, it's 160x128
22:11:01rashernot sure what's happened there
22:11:42kugelJdGordon|: that's for rbutil
22:12:03kugelpixelma: the rwps ones will work (although I don't think there is one). the rwps is simply ignored
22:13:15pixelmasure they work on target, but I thought they are excluded in the list (for e.g. the Ipod Color)
22:14:06kugelI don't think so, and they shouldn't be...for the reason they work on target
22:14:10JdGordon|no reason to exlude them...
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22:14:36JdGordon|it would be nice if remotes were on the theme site also, but yeah....
22:16:28pixelmawell, I remember a case where an H100 theme showed up wrong on the H300 page but obviously not the Ipod Color one (which is fixed but that's why I think they are treated differently)
22:17:18 Quit wincent2 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
22:17:40pixelmaif they are not excluded, Ipod Color or Fuze users will get a useless RWPS file because they are currently part of the theme
22:18:07rasherIs that a problem?
22:18:23*JdGordon| doesnt think so
22:18:36rasherSomething funky is going on about screen resolutions
22:18:37AlexPI'd prefer to get a wider range of themes
22:18:47 Join wincent2 [0] (
22:18:49AlexPA few extra files in a directory I never look in doesn't worry me
22:19:00rasherThemes are showing up for targets with different resolutions
22:19:18JdGordon|can rbutil be changed to go by screen res instead of a target name to avoid these shared size issues?
22:19:40pixelmanot for me, but I would like it better if RWPSs were treated as screens on their own - but then they can be RWPS on one target and WPS on the other :\
22:19:51rasherWe *want* themes to be listed for all applicable targets
22:20:00rasherRather than whatever the author selected
22:20:07AlexPi agree
22:20:48AlexPIt'd be good if for targets with lcd remotes a theme had a little note saying "includes rwps" or something
22:21:02AlexPIf it had one that is :)
22:22:10rasherokay, now no more missing screenshots..
22:22:18rasherhowever the problem is more obvious now :)
22:22:24scorcheZagor: following up on your previous highlights of me, you need to send an email to to update the gateway cloak
22:22:39Zagorscorche: ok
22:23:14scorcheZagor: alos, i assume you have seen this?
22:23:14pixelmaand there's a small problem with font sizes as long as the font size is not different for the remote (so you couldn't just say "I like that m200 theme, why not use it as RWPS" for mine, or even not as theoretical if you want to share the RWPS between H100 and H300)
22:23:47Zagorscorche: no, I'm not a mentor (and hence not a member)
22:24:06domonoky1rasher: whats the status about new checkwps builds for the theme site ?
22:24:25ZagorI did get a shirt though... :-)
22:24:48pixelma(in my proposal to have the remote screens on their own)
22:26:45 Quit wodz ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:27:26JdGordon|we really need to enable multi-font on multi-screen targets... even a stupid implementation so its just one ui font for each screen
22:27:39rasherdomonoky1: done
22:27:48domonoky1nice :-)
22:28:07rasherdomonoky1: except there's no e200v2 checkwps built - needs to be added to tools/checkwps/targets.txt afaics
22:28:25domonoky1ah, and fuze too ?
22:28:47rasherI think so
22:30:06 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
22:31:35domonoky1hm, the buildall script doesnt work on cygwin so i cant test. can someone else add those to lines please ? :-)
22:32:31kugelgevaerts: do you now see that is important? :)
22:32:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:33:57domonoky1oh, it works, just wrong lineendings for me :-)
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22:34:58Zagorhow many gsoc projects do we have this year?
22:35:34domonoky1we had 5
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22:37:15kugeldomonoky: unfortunately you cannot use rbutil to install on the fuze
22:37:27kugelit expects, which doesn't exist
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22:37:42kugelthe target names really ought be be cleaned up
22:38:16domonokyyet another targetname ?
22:38:41domonokythe buildserver should use the sansaxxx naming type, as it does for the other sansa targets.
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22:41:40CIA-43New commit by Domonoky (r22777): add fuze and e200v2 to checkwps build list.
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22:43:49domonokyBagder, Zagor: does it do any harm if we change the name of two targets (fuze and clip) in the builds list of the buildserver ?
22:44:51Zagordomonoky: some things will break but we need to do it sooner or later anyhow. there are more targets that need renaming.
22:45:21domonokythen i will change fuze and clip, so rbutil works. :-)
22:45:27MG_ManNow it seems Plain_v2 is in the wrong DAP - it seems to be made for iAudioX5 and compatible
22:45:54domonokyother naming changes would be good, but will break rbutil, so we need to be prepared to make a new one :-)
22:46:50CIA-43New commit by Domonoky (r22778): change the targetname of fuze and clip for the buildserver to match other sansa target.
22:46:50 Quit Strife89 ("Rebooting, finishing an update.")
22:49:12Bagderwe should use rasher's name table and make a decision, once and for all
22:49:25MG_Manum. right. the wiki seems to be broken
22:49:29Bagdermaybe a vote is the way
22:49:29Zagorrasher has a table?">
22:49:44rasherTries to be more consistent
22:49:50ZagorMG_Man: care to share some details?
22:50:06MG_Manhere it comes...
22:50:07MG_ManSoftware error:
22:50:08MG_Manflush(): couldn't store datastr: store(): couldn't open '/sites/': Permission denied at /sites/ line 588.
22:50:09DBUGEnqueued KICK MG_Man
22:50:09MG_ManFor help, please send mail to the webmaster (, giving this error message and the time and date of the error.
22:50:40MG_ManThere's a second part too
22:50:41MG_ManSoftware error:
22:50:42MG_Man[Mon Sep 21 22:49:55 2009] view: flush(): couldn't store datastr: store(): couldn't open '/sites/': Permission denied at /sites/ line 588.
22:50:43MG_Manat /usr/share/perl/5.10/CGI/ line 356
22:50:44***Alert Mode level 1
22:50:44MG_ManCGI::Carp::realdie('[Mon Sep 21 22:49:55 2009] view: flush(): couldn\'t store dat...') called at /usr/share/perl/5.10/CGI/ line 457
22:50:45***Alert Mode level 2
22:50:45MG_ManCGI::Carp::die('flush(): couldn\'t store datastr: store(): couldn\'t open \'/...') called at /sites/ line 588
22:50:46***Alert Mode level 3
22:50:46MG_ManFoswiki::LoginManager::userLoggedIn('Foswiki::LoginManager::ApacheLogin=HASH(0x8b847a8)', undef) called at /sites/ line 412
22:50:49MG_ManFoswiki::LoginManager::loadSession('Foswiki::LoginManager::ApacheLogin=HASH(0x8b847a8)', undef) called at /sites/ line 100
22:50:51rasherMG_Man: don't do that again
22:50:52MG_ManFoswiki::Users::new('Foswiki::Users', 'Foswiki=HASH(0x85ee150)') called at /sites/ line 1426
22:50:55AlexPMG_Man: pastebin please
22:51:02Mode"#rockbox +o logbot " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:51:03MG_ManFoswiki::new('Foswiki', undef, 'Foswiki::Request=HASH(0x893e470)', 'HASH(0x892c268)') called at /sites/ line 293
22:51:04DBUGQ-Sent KICK MG_Man to server
22:51:04MG_ManFoswiki::UI::_execute('Foswiki::Request=HASH(0x893e470)', 'CODE(0x893e040)', 'view', 1) called at /sites/ line 275
22:51:05Kick(#rockbox MG_Man :No flooding!) by logbot!i=rockbox@rockbox/bot/logbot
22:51:05***Alert Mode level 4
22:51:05DBUGsent MODE #rockbox +b *!*n=MGMan@*
22:51:05Mode"#rockbox +b *!*n=MGMan@* " by logbot (i=rockbox@rockbox/bot/logbot)
22:51:10AlexPgo logbot :)
22:51:12#>>"took you long enough" by rasher (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher)
22:51:21Mode"#rockbox +o rasher " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:51:22scorchei had to op him first..
22:51:22Mode"#rockbox -b *!*n=MGMan@* " by rasher (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher)
22:51:23domonokyrasher: currently we have some more varietys in rockbox naming.. for example ipodmini and ipodmini2g.
22:51:28 Join MG_Man [0] (
22:51:34MG_ManSorry about that
22:51:36CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:51:36*JdGordon| prefers company-model from that table
22:51:44rasherdomonoky: yes?
22:51:59domonokyyes, the first doesnt have a generation naming.
22:52:09rasherThis is what the table is meant to fix.
22:52:23rasherIt's suggestions for new names
22:52:27JdGordon|I think the normalised model names shuold be different though
22:52:46rasherJdGordon|: in which way?
22:53:20JdGordon|100 and 500 for the mrobes I really dont like
22:53:42rasherJdGordon|: but that's the model number..
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22:54:04JdGordon|sounds funny... but yeah I guess if its consistant then its better
22:54:25rasherI think it is
22:54:27Mode"#rockbox -o rasher " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:56:54ZagorMG_Man: what triggered this?
22:57:02MG_ManGoing to the wiki
22:57:14MG_ManI was originally going to read the Fuze page but any pagr triggers it
22:57:35Zagorare you logged in?
22:57:45MG_ManRegardless, it seems to work now
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23:01:06***Alert Mode OFF
23:01:45Zagorrasher: I like the "company/linemodel" version best. it cleans up the list without changing too many.
23:03:00 Quit wincent2 (Connection timed out)
23:07:17froggymanhas anyone here ever had problems with iPod batteries from eForcity ?
23:07:26rasherfroggyman: off topic
23:07:55rasherI quite like the hyphenated version, but if changing as few as possible is a plus, I can go for company/linemodel
23:09:41Zagorwe use hyphens as "field separator" in some places, such as
23:10:07ZagorI like that the model does not look like two fields there
23:10:41Zagorthough having a hyphen would by no means cause any problems
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23:17:00rashersansa-e200 just looks nicer than sansae200
23:17:20 Quit wincent_balin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:18:14*JdGordon| agrees
23:18:33 Quit merbanan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:19:39Zagorthen again, are users ever supposed to see those names?
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23:20:07Zagorand I want *everything* to use these names, including the config-xxx.h files
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23:20:40JdGordon|config-sansa-e200.h ?
23:20:57JdGordon|keymap-sansa-e200.h :(
23:20:59Zagorooh, one really good reason to use hyphens: it's immediately visible if the files/code is updated with the new names or not.
23:21:40JdGordon|if any renaming happens... can all the config-xxx.h files go into firmware/export/config/<target>.h ?
23:21:45amiconnDoesn't make sense for the keymaps, as they're usually used for a whole group of targets
23:22:20BagderJdGordon: that's a neat idea I like
23:22:26ZagorJdGordon|: sounds reasonable
23:23:08 Quit kushalone (Client Quit)
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23:30:25CIA-43New commit by rob (r22779): Allow seeking using the progress bar on the touch-enabled Cabbiev2 (currently only used by m:robe500 320x240).
23:33:43*kugel doesn't want too long names
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23:34:38kugelI don't think we have to be overly strict and should be able to have exceptions for a few model lines, such as sansa/ipods don't really need the sandisk in front also
23:35:06kugelthe most important part is that it's consistent within the same model line anyway
23:35:30JdGordon|tf get . /r
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23:43:29kugelJdGordon: I'd like to have d in the long term (for consistency, code decrease and clarity). It should be possible to support both, and d for drawing. We could have a "compatibility period" and cut off somewhere in the future (for example for 3.5)
23:43:50JdGordon|I hugely disagree..... there is no need for it at all...
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23:44:39JdGordon|there is a big difference between Xl/Xd and Cl/C
23:44:43kugelI highly dislike the current hack
23:44:57kugel%?C would stay
23:45:25JdGordon|the better fix is to add an easy way to check if the current token is in a conditional or not...
23:45:29JdGordon|not to add a new token
23:45:51kugelwhat's the problem with an additional token?
23:46:09JdGordon|its unessecary, and it will break every theme
23:46:17kugelinternally there won't be a new token
23:46:27kugelyou did actually read what I wrote?
23:46:37JdGordon|yes, and thats a bad idea
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23:47:00JdGordon|supporting both means its pointless... and compatability time is just stupid
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23:47:20kugelcan I have some real arguments please?
23:47:26JdGordon|the "hack" is perfectly safe
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23:48:25JdGordon|%Cd will not make it more consistant, or more friendly for users... especially if we ever want to go next AA image...
23:48:36JdGordon|in which case %c should be this image and %C is next...
23:48:45JdGordon|or if we must %C and %Cn
23:48:53 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:48:58JdGordon|making that %Cd and %Cnd
23:49:35JdGordon|so to avoid a slight annoyance in the code you want to add the first 3 letter token (excluding %xd*)
23:49:53kugeluhm no?
23:50:07kugel%Vda is a 3 letter token?
23:50:41JdGordon|a is not part of the token there....
23:50:55kugelinternally yes
23:51:00kugelthat totally doesn't matter for the user
23:51:28kugeland internally it totally doesn't matter how much chars such a thing has (besides I wouldn't even use n for next aa)
23:51:31JdGordon|anyway, its a bad idea... if you want to avoid the hack then fix the code to add a isconditionalToken() which is fairly easy to do
23:51:47kugelyou still lack real arguments
23:52:05kugel"it's stupid" "it's pointless" "it's a bad idea"...great
23:52:07JdGordon|as do you
23:52:35kugelit removes a hack and actually reduces needed code
23:52:53kugelas well as being more consistent with other tags that pre-load something
23:53:06kugelor display something loaded
23:53:57rasherkugel: that's what the company/line bit is about
23:54:15rasherIt uses the product line if one is available, or the company line otherwise
23:54:28rasherMeans we get ipod3g but archos-fmrecorder
23:54:38rasherAnd it's still internally consistent
23:55:05JdGordon|kugel: %Cl *DOES NOT* preload the image... thats why its different to regular images...
23:55:13kugelrasher: yea I like that
23:55:40rasherZagor: No, I don't think users should see them ever. It's fairly unimportant
23:55:45kugelit does. album art isn't loaded without that line
23:56:02JdGordon|yes, but it doesnt mean that if that line is there, album art gets loaded
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23:56:47JdGordon|btw, if you want to make a big breaking change (which I would consider this to be), the onus is on you to come up with the compelling reason to change, not for me...
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23:56:57kugelthat's not a reason to not have %Cd
23:57:34kugelit won't be a big breaking change if a sufficiently large period for compatibility is provided
23:57:37JdGordon|I'm not against %Cd per se... I'm saying the breaking change is a really bad idea and totally unnessecary
23:58:06JdGordon|sufficiently large being what? 6 months?!
23:58:10JdGordon|12 months?
23:58:10 Quit Dhraakellian (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:58:13JdGordon|3 weeks?
23:58:24kugel3 month should be plenty, but 6 month is ok too
23:58:42JdGordon|then whats the point of the change happening? after that long it will be forgotten about
23:58:51kugelI won't forget about it
23:58:53JdGordon|and "oh its been like that for too long, just leave it as is"

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