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#rockbox log for 2009-09-25

00:00:45 Quit liar|netbook (Remote closed the connection)
00:05:01 Quit saratoga (
00:05:10CIA-43New commit by bertrik (r22822): FS #9824: Fix FM channel spacing for Europe
00:06:10 Quit DerPapst1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:11:59 Quit domonoky1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:12:52 Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky)
00:14:22 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:15:02 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
00:17:44 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=rmenes@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37)
00:18:58 Quit niekie (Connection timed out)
00:19:45 Join webguest07 [0] (
00:20:03webguest07how do I put videos on my ipod
00:21:17 Quit webguest07 (Client Quit)
00:22:20 Quit DarkDefender (Remote closed the connection)
00:23:18 Quit esperegu (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:33:05 Part kkurbjun
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00:33:39 Part pyro_maniac
00:34:21 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:34:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:36:33 Join efyx_ [0] (
00:38:11 Quit bertrik ("De groeten")
00:42:17kugelrasher: seems I forgot the $
00:42:31kugelno wait
00:42:33rasherkugel: where?
00:42:41rasherI'm talking about this: if [ $1 = "sdl" -a -z "$sdl"]; then
00:42:56rasheryou need the space, don't you?
00:43:09rasherdoesn't fix it though, so maybe not
00:43:25 Quit bmbl ("Bye!")
00:43:43kugel should work
00:43:52rasherah, it does
00:43:58 Join intrados [0] (
00:44:14kugelindeed there's no space. I thought it would fail with a syntax error?
00:44:20kugelit did in simcc at least
00:44:29rasherbut you never reach crosswincc
00:44:37rasherso it isn't run
00:44:59rashershell scripts are not precompiled
00:45:27 Quit intrados (Client Quit)
00:45:28kugelalright, it makes sense then
00:45:46kugelso the above patch and the space should work
00:46:07rasherI don't see what you're doing in the first part?
00:46:11rasherjust removing quotes? Why?
00:46:46kugelthe second part does the other half
00:47:23rasherThat doesn't explain what the first part is supposed to be doing
00:47:42kugelthe quotes are removed so that the variables don't contain (so that the second part works, it would be "-mconsole ""<what sdl-config gives>")
00:48:14rasherIt wouldn't
00:48:19kugelthat's how I did it in simcc, and it works
00:48:20 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:48:28rasherThe quotes don't need to be removed
00:48:46rasherI'm not sure they need to be there, but they don't do any harm
00:49:06 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
00:49:23kugelso "abc" "xyz" is concated automatically?
00:49:49rasherfoo="bar" means foo contains the string bar, not "bar"
00:51:12kugelok so they don't actually matter
00:51:17 Quit mcuelenaere ()
00:52:05kugelcan you commit the fix if it works for you? I can't test crosscompiling here
00:55:11 Join stripwax [0] (
01:02:43 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:04:17CIA-43New commit by kugel (r22823): Change that include to " " style to allow for using SDL from custom installation pathes.
01:05:31 Join stripwax [0] (
01:06:58 Join casainho [0] (
01:07:17casainhohello :-)
01:07:29casainhodoes Rockbox firmware have good audio quality?
01:07:46kugeldepends on the hardware
01:07:49casainhohow can we have a proof of that?
01:08:24casainhoI am trying to answer to this question: First of all: I think that the project goal is audio quality. So I ask: what is necessary for the BEST audio quality? Is it possible only with more expensive components or Arm bords can give the best audio quality all around?
01:08:44kugelbut it has some dsp effects which may improve the "felt" quality/listening experience
01:09:05gevaertsthe CPU architecture chosen has nothing at all to do with audio quality
01:09:23casainhohmmm... I tought that math calculations made by Rockbox firmware could be done in a way to have the best audi quality possible
01:09:38stripwaxthey are indeed supposed to, yes
01:09:39kugelunless the drivers are buggy, the software doesn't really have an effect on the SQ (except if you add effects)
01:10:12kugelthe codecs might be buggy, but our codecs are fine I think
01:10:30casainhoat wiki page WhyRockbox: "Another top priority of Rockbox is audio playback quality."
01:11:03casainhowhat that means? how developers make make the best audio quality?
01:11:20stripwaxcasainho - is your question "which audio device has the best audio hardware in it" or is the question "does the rockbox code focus on sound quality or performance"?
01:11:41kugelstripwax: he's just asking whether rockbox sounds like crap or not
01:12:23stripwaxor is it even, from a development point of view as an interested programmer might want to ask, "HOW does the rockbox code ensure that good audio decoding sound quality is ensured"
01:12:35casainhoto answer to
01:12:50casainhostripwax: yes, is that last qestion
01:12:58stripwaxIn my opinion, Rockbox does not sound like crap, and I have used other proprietary (original) firmwares that, again in my opinion, sounded like crap
01:13:19kugelI never heard any differences between OFs and rockbox
01:13:20casainhoso, what is the answer to that question?
01:13:43casainhonice to read about this subject:
01:14:02gevaertscasainho: what is the question?
01:14:08stripwaxcasainho - quick answer is: lots of 64-bit math for fixed-point calculations, rather than 32-bit math, to ensure no truncation or loss of precision. long answer is: read the code and take a look for yourself :-)
01:14:19casainhogevaerts: HOW does the rockbox code ensure that good audio decoding sound quality is ensured
01:15:07stripwaxcasainho - rockbox also uses and borrows from existing implementations of codecs (e.g. libmad, tremor), and where possible ensures that these libraries are built with options to ensure best sound quality enabled, rather than options for ensuring best CPU performance
01:15:34*stripwax reboots momentarily
01:15:38 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:15:52kugelit can't *ensure* it. it can just avoid known problems (what stripwax mentioned). But most of our codecs are based of codecs used in desktop applications, and those have gone through numerious tests
01:16:00casainhostripwax: ok, thanks :-) −− because I were looking at the wiki page to get that answer. Now I can answer to the original forum question:
01:16:23kugelcasainho: to bobs earlier question
01:16:46kugelthe <arch>/<soc>/<model> tree is even preferred
01:17:08casainhokugel: "to bobs" ? −− "the <arch>/<soc>/<model> tree is even preferred" ??
01:17:17rasherkugel: what's the point of the -a -z "$sdl" ?
01:17:34 Quit Zagor ("Clint excited")
01:17:52kugelrasher: $sdl is empty if sdl-config doesn't exist
01:17:55 Join stripwax [0] (
01:18:10kugelLooks like that the check is even wrong
01:18:13rasherIn which case you run sdl-config? That doesn't seem prudent
01:18:36kugelshould be -n indeed
01:19:15kugelcasainho: you were asking earlier whether to use gigabeat f code or not
01:19:51kugelwhich then led to the question how to integrate lyre code into the target tree (target tree = everything in firmware/target)
01:20:42casainhokugel: yes. For now it's like this:
01:21:20kugelyes that is fine that way
01:21:37kugeldid you receive the board already?
01:21:43casainhokugel: Ok. It was made by Bob.
01:22:01casainhokugel: no, nor me nor Bob. It may take 1 month...
01:22:19 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:22:32kugel$85 looks damn cheap, especially if you pay in euros
01:22:59*kugel thinks about getting one
01:23:00casainhokugel: we are thinking that this board/Lyre prototype can be a king of car/house Rockbox player.
01:24:19casainhokugel: just go ahead :-) −− I was thinking in sending an e-mail to Rockbox dev. list, for asking others developers to join us, because that board have all needed, so, it's just coding −− and we have all information available :-)
01:26:24 Quit Rob2223 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:27:13casainhokugel: after shipment price and insurance, I paid €83.78, $119.99. Here is the board ready to buy:
01:27:41casainho*can be a kind of car/house Rockbox player.
01:28:19 Join Rob2222 [0] (
01:28:23 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Fwump")
01:28:48kugelthat's not the same offer you showed us some days ago?
01:29:20CIA-43New commit by rasher (r22824): Syntax fixes and logic reversing to fix windows crosscompiling for the simulator.
01:31:54 Quit Strife89 ("If you hold a Linux shell up to your ear, you can hear the C.")
01:35:56kugelcasainho: why didn't you go for the other one?
01:36:44casainhokugel: what other one?
01:36:46kugelthe one for $85
01:37:18kugelsame hardware, less $$$ and a bit more on the dvd
01:38:06casainhokugel: I think that because the shipment price where higher
01:38:48kugelshipping is $15 only
01:38:50casainhokugel: anyway, I already bought it. Also I know that I wanted insurance, maybe that's why I decided by that. I don't know.
01:39:23casainhois $30.00 for me in Europe
01:40:14 Quit stripwax ("")
01:41:06casainhokugel: well, maybe that's a best option that seller :-)
01:42:06casainhokugel: will you buy it? :-)
01:42:18kugelI need to think about it
01:42:49kugelit has an sd slot which is awesome
01:44:43casainhokugel: sd? are you joking?
01:45:04casainhokugel: people wants HDD on this king of board
01:45:42kugelpeople == you?
01:46:09casainhono me, Bob and others
01:46:30casainhoothers like this fan:
01:46:49kugelI don't really care who wants a hdd and who doesn't
01:46:51casainhoI really like SD Cards :-)
01:47:03 Join moos [0] (i=mostafa@rockbox/staff/moos)
01:47:03kugelit has a slot, and I like that
01:47:40casainhokugel: ok. A SD Card slot and connections to SoC is very simple :-)
01:47:49 Quit efyx_ (Remote closed the connection)
01:53:13casainhokugel: you like SD Card? so, the ARMopendous boards that uses NXP ARM9 LPC313x can boot from SD Card, which I think is great :-)
01:53:39 Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:55:19*JdGordon| is damn temped to buy one of them boards
01:56:41 Join Hillshum [0] (
02:00:12 Join Strife89 [0] (
02:00:46casainhoJdGordon|: but for put Rockbox on it or for Linux or something like that?
02:01:34JdGordon|rockbox, and then maybe some fun experimenting
02:02:05casainhoJdGordon|: ok, but it, BUY IT!! :-)
02:02:22casainhowe would be then 4 developers :-)
02:02:31JdGordon|is all the code and stuff they give ok for us to use? gpl compatable?
02:02:38casainhowe would have a port in 5 days :-)
02:03:22casainhoJdGordon|: I don't know. I just know that the SoC is the same as the GigaBeat Rockbox port.
02:03:23 Join AndyIL [0] (n=pasha_in@
02:03:23 Quit AndyI (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:03:38*JdGordon| heds home
02:03:40casainhoand they give us all the datasheets.
02:03:46 Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
02:04:04casainhoI will go also :-) bye bye
02:04:07 Quit casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824085743]")
02:04:17 Quit AndyIL (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:04:25HillshumFull docs, some code, and similar to a port we have already?
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02:04:26 Quit moos (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
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02:08:40kugelJdGordon: they ship linux with it
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02:16:48*kugel is damn tempted as well
02:17:29kugelthat's a gigabeat f with touchscreen, sd card slot, lan and other stuff for 80€
02:17:49JdGordon|the lan part could be fun...
02:18:36HillshumMulitplayer Doom!
02:19:02kugelI see it coming: A land + tcp/ip implementation for GSoC 2010
02:19:30JdGordon|well... I was thinking more for remote storage+control
02:19:49JdGordon|hook that up to my a/v system would be freeking sweet
02:23:56 Quit Strife89 ("X.")
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02:27:20 Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
02:28:28 Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
02:34:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:36:47 Quit Strife89 ("Restarting X.")
02:38:46 Quit Curulan ()
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02:58:13 Part Mataamad
03:00:16HillshumI've noticed that when my Clip crashes while playing, if it happens to keep its place in the song, it won't shut itself down completely
03:02:12HillshumIs there a chance that overclocking the SD cards in AMS could break them?
03:06:26 Quit Hillshum ("Ex-Chat")
03:06:45 Join Hillshum [0] (
03:15:43 Join Rand_Althor [0] (
03:16:23Rand_AlthorI want to create WPS and sell them. Will you please implement AES encrypted WPS into Rockbox?
03:18:53 Quit Strife89 ("Rebooting just in case.")
03:19:10rasherGood one
03:19:41JdGordonsure thing!
03:20:08kugelYou need to pay us a bit though!
03:20:24JdGordonamiconn: looking at language.c I dont tihnk it will be hard at all to get an ID from the english string... it will be slow but not hard
03:20:34JdGordonor dangerous
03:21:06kugelif you strcmp all strings you don't need the id anymore
03:21:36kugeljust count the loop, and then skip X strings in the real language buffer
03:21:54 Quit Rand_Althor ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
03:22:06kugelbut that's probably horrible inefficient even for parsing
03:22:18JdGordonmeh, it can boost for parsing...
03:22:30JdGordonI dont tihnk it will be used that much, or be all that slow anyway
03:23:13JdGordonits just
03:23:32*kugel would prefer a limtied amount with a smaller lookup table
03:23:32JdGordonthen store that ID and you're done
03:24:27 Quit Hillshum (Remote closed the connection)
03:25:18 Join Strife89 [0] (
03:25:38JdGordonwe could even build a list of strings to find so we only loop through the full list once
03:25:43kugelbut well, I'd be happy enough if it can localize skins
03:25:59kugeland having it fully localized this way it would possibly worth it
03:27:28 Quit Strife89 (Client Quit)
03:28:07*JdGordon goes about doing a test
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03:34:56 Quit Hillshum (Client Quit)
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03:35:39 Join niekie [0] (i=quasselc@
03:36:43 Join Hillshum [0] (
03:38:54CIA-43New commit by FlynDice (r22825): AMS Sansa: Add delay for µSD writes to fix CRC failures with class 6 µSD cards.
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03:40:01 Quit Hillshum (Remote closed the connection)
03:40:30 Quit Strife89 ("Backup time.")
03:41:51JdGordonsurprise surprise it works :p
03:42:17JdGordon15 lines for the parser, 8 for the string->id, a few more here and there and its done
03:42:22JdGordonwhats a good tag for it though?
03:42:29JdGordon%St is a bit meh
03:43:33CIA-43New commit by kugel (r22826): Remove some some code in favor of a single parse_list() call.
03:45:53kugelJdGordon: %St is doing the same thing for settings as you're planning for langs
03:46:00 Quit StealthyXIIGer (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:46:12kugelsaying it would be meh sounds a bit strange
03:46:13 Join StealthyXIIGer [0] (n=stealthy@
03:46:59JdGordonwoops... I used the wrong tag :p
03:47:08JdGordonbut the code is almost identacle
03:47:14JdGordonhowever the uck thats spelt
03:47:32 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
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03:47:53 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (i=quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
03:49:31 Quit darkham ("Sto andando via")
03:52:57JdGordon:O hmm.. apparently this isnt so easy
03:53:27JdGordonoh yes it is.. im a dill
03:55:12*JdGordon used Sx for the token
03:56:01kugelfor the language?
03:56:32 Quit chandoo ("Leaving")
03:56:51JdGordonSx sprt of is "string translate"
03:57:31kugelyea, sprt of
03:58:09kugelwith x being trans, I've seen this before (curl uses Xfer for transfer rates)
03:58:36kugelor, x being "screw you all, I can't make up something better" :D
04:00:32JdGordonthe first :)
04:00:41kugelsuuuuure :D
04:01:09JdGordon is the patch
04:01:59*kugel hopes that WPS_TOKEN_XLATEDSTRING is going to change
04:03:10JdGordonhope is the empty mans lust for ... umm....
04:03:42kugelseems small and simple
04:03:58kugeldoes it actually work too?
04:04:27JdGordonI mean... OF COURSE IT BLOODY DOES!
04:04:49 Join kkurbjun [0] (n=kkurbjun@rockbox/developer/kkurbjun)
04:04:50kugelawesome then
04:05:00JdGordonI havent tested on target, or with more than one though so if oyu want to see how slow it is that would be great
04:05:19kugelI don't think it will be that slow
04:05:30JdGordondid we decide this morning if we actually like the %<token>|<string>| method?
04:05:40kugelsurely it depends on how heavily you localize it
04:06:14kugelisn't that the only possible way if we go with that full localization?
04:07:19JdGordonwe can maybe add some short-hands later on if its wanted badly
04:07:40 Quit TheSeven (Nick collision from services.)
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04:08:09kugelyea, we could still have the %$ia as short ups. those are also independant of the actual string
04:08:43kugelalthough it seems a bit waste, we'll see
04:09:00kugelI'm definitely a fan of fully translatable skins
04:09:52JdGordonits going to be fun convincing the themers to add it...
04:10:18kugeldid I already mention that 3.5 is going to be great for themes?
04:10:28 Join Rand_Althor [0] (
04:10:55JdGordonyes... yes it will
04:11:08JdGordonand we have 3 months now to make it awesome!
04:11:41Rand_AlthorWPS "" writes the letter "C" on my WPS
04:12:08JdGordonOH SON OF A........ checkwps breaks with this change
04:12:51kugelRand_Althor: which build are you running? 3.4?
04:13:00Rand_Althorone sec...
04:13:09kugelI thought that fixed itself (I couldn't repro it anymore)
04:13:34kugeldo an update
04:13:53kugelbtw, we certainly won't implement encrypted WPSs
04:14:06Rand_Althorkugel: I was joking
04:14:07JdGordonthey arnt encrypted enough as it is :D
04:14:26kugelfine then :)
04:14:43 Join TVman [0] (
04:15:51Rand_Althorok the "C" is gone on my player (current SVN). I was getting the C on a pre-compiled sim. Sorry about that, JdGordon.
04:15:57TVmanI'm sure this has been asked at least ten thousand time before but... I have ipodloader running just fine on my 2G nano. Is there a dev version of RB that I can try?
04:16:05 Quit kugel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:17:28*JdGordon bangs head on desk
04:18:39 Nick ArneB is now known as ps-auxw (
04:19:19*mt pats JdGordon :)
04:19:36TVmanim sure thats aimed at me.... trust me, I tried answering this on my own
04:21:15kkurbjunTVman: currently the G2 nano work does not fully run to my knowledge, it is very preliminary
04:23:21*JdGordon looks around for Makefile voodoo masters
04:24:12mtTVman: This wasn't directed to you (from my side at least) .. anyway, the front page lists the Nano 2G as an unusable port. If I remember correctly, this port is still in an early stage, so unless you want to contribute, I doubt that you'd find anything useful to you at the moment.
04:26:38Rand_Althorhappy coding
04:26:39 Quit Rand_Althor ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
04:26:52mtTVman: Only display is working currently - see :
04:34:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:42:13 Join nullified [0] (
04:44:01 Quit Rondom (Nick collision from services.)
04:44:10nullifiedIs the Sansa E250R case sensitive with the file names? ie: does PP5022.MI4 = pp5022.mi4 ?
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04:55:48 Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/x-yzhcovajhpvumrjz)
04:56:01saratogaare the glitches on the Fuze during mpegplayer due to the LCD driver or something else?
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05:44:44darkhamplease, i've problem to load OF in Sansa Fuze
05:44:53darkhami can load ony rockbox now..
05:46:15saratogawhat did you do?
05:46:32darkhamsaratoga, i follow the wiki
05:46:55darkhami try to load OF pressing |<< quickly
05:46:59darkhambut nothing
05:47:18darkhamat player off, nothing
05:47:55darkhamwhen i type the poweron button , i press |<< quickly , but nothing
05:48:05darkhamhow can i load OF?
05:49:10 Quit panni__ (Client Quit)
05:50:01saratogai meant what did you do to break it
05:50:10saratogabut you can also try plugging in the USB cable with it off
05:50:35darkhami plugged the cable, and all right
05:50:56darkhami tried the rockbox utility to install some other theme
05:52:07darkhamnow i'm in ubuntu, if i plug the player in windows, i can flash an original firmware again without problem?
05:53:28darkhamsaratoga, i've only installed rockbox as the wiki said
05:55:16gevaertsdarkham: are you holding Left while powering it on, or only after?
05:55:39darkhamgevaerts, only after
05:56:00gevaertstry holding it earlier
05:56:30darkhamgevaerts, yes now i loaded the OF
05:56:49darkhamyes, i holded the button before the poweron
05:56:53darkhamall right
05:57:01darkhamexcuse me for my anxiety...
05:57:08JdGordongevaerts: thanks :) I would have been happy to break checkwps but now its in the table I really cant :p
05:57:29gevaertsJdGordon: well, this is not really better :)
05:58:12darkhampeople, i tried rockbox on fuze for almost an hour, i can tell you the work is very great
05:59:27gevaertsJdGordon: the bootloaders still compile :)
05:59:37JdGordongood enough for me :)
06:00:03JdGordonI could of course break it so everything compiles but checkwps doesnt check if the string is valid... but that sounds pointless
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06:00:59darkhami tried a game, bubbles, and i had some video glitch,
06:01:36darkhambut i never had a freeze
06:01:55kkurbjunJdhow do you go back a revision, I think Kugels commit is causing data aborts on the m:robe at least with the clean green theme
06:04:22kkurbjunthe data aborts are happening in the parse_list function
06:04:38gevaerts"svn up -r <revision>" gets a specific revision. If you want to revert a single commit, try "svn merge -r <bad-commit>:<previous-commit>
06:04:39kkurbjunit's strange though because it is only happening with the vertical stride builds
06:05:02darkhamgevaerts, is rockbox o fuze having some memory issue?
06:05:32*gevaerts hasn't installed rockbox on his fuze yet
06:05:55kkurbjungevaerts: thanks
06:06:03darkhami had avoided my warranty?
06:06:44gevaertsif you really want to know, ask a lawyer
06:07:05darkhamok ok...
06:07:28saratogayou probably have
06:07:43kkurbjunhmm, yep, r 22826 started the data aborts
06:08:04kkurbjunit crashes when I load the wps..
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06:08:37darkhamif i plug the player in windows, can i flash an official firmware again ?
06:08:54darkham(i don't think i'll do...)
06:10:33darkhamis it possible?
06:14:30JdGordonkkurbjun: revert the commit... if its data aborting you probably arnt the only one
06:16:42kkurbjunyeah, I'll do that, I think there is something wrong with the parse_list implementation
06:16:48kkurbjunit's aborting on a store
06:17:18kkurbjunso somehow the pointer is misaligned, I'm guessing it's in the "d" format.
06:17:39darkhami thanks you all again, (please improve battery....)
06:17:50darkhamand good evening / good night
06:18:04darkhamthanx saratoga , gevaerts
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06:23:37CIA-43New commit by kkurbjun (r22827): r22826 is causing data aborts when the wps is loaded in the parse_list function - suspected reason is an improperly aligned pointer depending on how ...
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06:34:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:10:14kkurbjunthis is strange.. I'm not too sure what was causing the data aborts with parse_list
07:10:42kkurbjunsomehow the pointer for albumart_x/y is misaligned
07:14:01JdGordonthey are struct members... can that cause wierdness?
07:14:35kkurbjunhmm, albumart_x and albumart_y are shorts but their being treated as ints with parse_list.. I would expect that the structure is not packed, but I might be mistaken
07:14:54kkurbjunI thought they would be 32 bit aligned
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07:16:08kkurbjunthe struct should only cause problems if it's packed
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07:17:22JdGordonthey can be changed to int in the struct to make things simpler
07:17:38JdGordonthey were only short to save a tiny bit of ram which isnt worth it anymore
07:18:30kkurbjunyeah, but that might just be masking an underlying problem - them bieng short versus int should not save any space if everything is properly aligned
07:20:45JdGordonwell.. no, parse_list is pretty crude..
07:20:48n1sshorts aren't necessarily 32 bit aligned
07:21:23kkurbjunnls gcc will pack shorts?
07:21:33JdGordonit gets a d, it expects the pointer to be a int
07:21:35n1sthay are aligned to their size, 16 bits usually
07:22:02kkurbjunahh, I was mistaken then, I thought that typically structs were unpacked for speed
07:22:35kkurbjunyeah, it looks like parse_albumart_load uses strh whereas parse_list is using str on those parameters
07:22:43n1sthaey aren't exactly packed but all members are only aligned to their size
07:23:04kkurbjunoh, I see
07:23:19kkurbjunso if you have a char, then 2 shorts it will take up 6 bytes
07:23:29kkurbjunif it was packed it would be 5
07:23:47kkurbjunthat makes sense
07:24:22kkurbjunso I guess that's the root cause of the problem
07:25:18JdGordonyes, stupid pointless ram savings...
07:25:26JdGordonan int here would have been far better
07:28:07kkurbjunor we could just do a full sscanf with modifier support, although that would probably cost more in size :-D
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07:28:51kkurbjunI wonder how much larger the sscanf implementation as it stands that is in the tree is than the parse_list
07:29:42JdGordondoom has one doesnt it?
07:30:23kkurbjunyeah, it brings in the scanff that is in the common directory in a hackish way since it is not currenly linked in the main build
07:31:36JdGordonsscanf wont actually work well enough anyway
07:31:50kkurbjunI think it's something like #include "../../../firmware/common/sscanf.c"
07:31:55kkurbjunwhy is that?
07:32:00JdGordonparse_list does strings which I dont know how well sscanf does, and optional items
07:32:22kkurbjunsscanf supports strings.. not sure about optional items
07:34:18JdGordonthe alternative of course is adding short support to parse_list
07:35:18kkurbjunyeah, sscanf doesn't have modifier support right now so it won't work, I just wonder how valuable it is to maintain an /almost/ sscanf
07:37:58kkurbjunif they were functionally equivalent I would say that using a standard function (sscanf) would be more maintainable since there is a well defined behavior in how it should act, and if someone was browsing the code they wouldn't be wondering what parse_list was doing, but that's just a thought. I need to sleep :)
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08:02:43tabsterHi, Ive got a problem with my iAudio X5. Its not usable at all: It shows the Play-Page, but no matter which button I press, nothing happens (hold isnt on). I can only switch it off.
08:02:56tabsterAnd when I switch it on again, it comes back to the same situation.
08:03:04tabsterI dont see a chance how to get out of that.
08:03:11tabsterCan you help me?
08:03:16amiconnsaratoga: What kind of glitches does it produce?
08:03:47tabsterit only doesnt react on any input
08:04:25tabsterThe Rockbox-Version should be pretty old as Ive never updated because it was running smooth.
08:04:46tabsterIt shows version 2 and on the next bootup-screen: r15901-071209
08:06:03tabsterAh, now I connected it via USB and I can see all files on it. Maybe now I can reset it ...
08:06:56amiconnYou have it set to start directly into the wps?
08:07:15amiconnIf so, you might have found an audio file that freezes rockbox
08:07:41tabstersorry, but what is wps?
08:07:52amiconnWhile Playing Screen
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08:09:03tabsteryes, it is set like that
08:09:03amiconnFirst thing I'd try is to update rockbox - the problem might be fixed already. Your copy is from the rockbox stone-age ;) (almost two years old)
08:09:03tabsterYes, I know. Can I easily run the installer on it to upgrade it?
08:09:16tabsterI dont know If its a freezing file, because I played it around 20 times before where it didnt freeze
08:10:11amiconnYes, rbutil should be able to do this upgrade
08:10:34tabsternice, thank you!
08:12:05amiconnHmm, if the audio file can't be the problem then I wonder what could.
08:12:38tabsterMaybe its only a very old problem that solves by updating.
08:12:55pixelmaposition of rockbox.iaudio?
08:13:26pixelmadon't know when that changed exactly though
08:14:00tabsterbut I already run the installer now
08:18:40tabsterTheres a problem with the installer saying "Error opening archive: invalid or incompatible zip-archive"
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08:26:58tabsterWhat will happen if I remove rockbox (including the bootloader) from my iAudio X5? Will I get the original firmware working then or will I not be able to use the device anymore?
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08:30:47linuxstbtabster: The manual should have uninstall instructions. Or you can just download the manually and unzip your X5 -
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08:31:56linuxstbZagor: Is the current build page supposed to be like this now?
08:32:34Zagoryes, plus a link to the full table.
08:32:44ZagorI just haven't got around to that yet
08:32:54linuxstbAh, it's only showing targets with warnings/errors?
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08:33:15Zagora note about that would probably be good too :-)
08:34:02linuxstbYes, I was about to suggest that ;)
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08:35:56linuxstbCould you just hide the columns with css, and then use javascript to toggle their visibility?
08:36:14Zagoryes, but it's more work for me and slower in the browser
08:37:21tabsterThank you all very much! I did a manual installation as described in the manual and now Ive got Rockbox 3.4 on my iAudio X5. I should have done this earlier - its also much quicker :-)
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08:48:08JdGordonhey Zagor, any chance you might be able to help out with the Makefile madness to get translation happenig in the skins?
08:48:45Zagorsure. not right now though.
08:48:52JdGordonobviously :)
08:49:03JdGordonjust anytime before lunch would be great :D
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09:29:50*GodEater__ is enjoying LambdaCalculus37's Rockbox presentation
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10:11:30CIA-43New commit by bluebrother (r22828): Set missing properties.
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10:39:10CIA-43New commit by bluebrother (r22829): Query RAM size when scanning for Ipods. Return the target string for Video 64MB when apropriate amount of RAM is detected. Makes Rockbox Utility ...
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10:57:22painesi have r22777-090921 running on my sansa fuze. everything was cool then out of a sudden the db went broken, ever since then the db cannot be reorganized. any idea how to fix this
11:03:12robin0800yes 1 try database menu's 2 delete database files 3 delete rockbox folder 4 format player you choose
11:03:43*linuxstb hands robin0800 some punctuation...
11:05:02*pixelma tries to get rid of robin0800's formatting player suggestion
11:05:40robin0800paines: Please add reset settings to list between 2 and3
11:06:29robin0800pixelma: As a last resort thats all you can do?
11:06:31painesrobin0800: okay. i will tr y those
11:07:56linuxstbpaines: Have you checked your filesystem for errors? (e.g. with chkdsk or fsck)
11:08:18paineslinuxstb: no, not yet.
11:09:23linuxstbI would do that first.
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11:41:03painesohhhh. windows was unable to complete the disk check for the uSD drive containg the music. the flash is checked okay
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12:24:51Zagorumm, the d2 sim appears to be "cheating" a bit by using cursor keys not existing on the player...
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12:26:06rasherZagor: Doesn't it just correspond to the grid?
12:27:02Zagoraha, that's how it works
12:29:37Zagorthe backlight keeps "waking up" on its' own. is this a known thing? (d2 sim still)
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12:31:55ZagorI haven't looked at the sim in ages...
12:32:08Zagorwhat's the idea behind the battery fluctuation?
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12:38:39rasherI think to allow wps makers to test things
12:38:59rasherkugel recently tinkered with the button handling, maybe the backlight waking up is his fault
12:39:49ZagorI think it's actually related to the battery reading. it wakes up on battery full and battery empty.
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13:10:45rasherZagor: Ah, clever
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13:39:47AlexPBagder, Zagor: The font package seems to be missing from the website - is empty
13:40:25Zagorwe have daily fonts?
13:41:04AlexPZagor: That's where the download link for extras points
13:41:14AlexPAnd apparently rbutil can no longer find them either
13:41:40ZagorI'll add a link then
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13:43:54AlexPI suspect they used to be daily as everything points there, but there is no huge reason for them to - it isn't like fonts get added regularly
13:45:08AlexPThe extras page points to
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13:46:43AlexPAs does rbutil - [HTTP] GET URI ""
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13:47:18pixelmaZagor: backlight wakes up on battery full and empty if "backlight during charge" is enabled, or however that option is called (and I think that's the default). That has to do with the battery reading simulation
13:47:37Zagorpixelma: ok. thanks.
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14:32:27Zagordoes anyone know what JdGordon referred to here?
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14:41:42rasherZagor: see -dev
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14:47:11JackWinter2hiya, i have rockbox on my ipod since many years, and wanted to update it. haven't uploaded songs to it either for a long time. when i connect it to my linux/kde computer it appears both as ipod and a drive name. both with an icon for an ipod. don't seem to be able to access either of them. any hints on what i have to do?
14:53:21JackWinter2hmm, seems to be hal preventing it. time to write some rules i guess :)
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15:21:02ThomasAHHi! Which player would you recommend for the following criteria: Runs Rockbox, has mini-USB connector (for charging and usb storage)
15:23:16linuxstbHow much storage? i.e. do you want a hard disk or flash?
15:24:13ThomasAHlinuxstb: flash would be better, SD or micro SD would be a plus, but rockbox + mini USB are my main criteria
15:25:33linuxstbI'm not sure which (if any) flash devices have a mini-USB. The main flash players Rockbox runs on are the Sansas, and most have a proprietory USB connector.
15:26:20ThomasAHlinuxstb: yes, a co-worker bought his second Sansa some days ago, but while it is nice, I really dislike the proprietary connector
15:28:00ThomasAH(otherwise it would be nice, but only with Rockbox ... as the Sansa firmware does not allow browsing songs by directory)
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15:28:40linuxstbYou may find this page helpfiul -
15:29:29AlexPZagor: The source for the current build is also no longer on the current build page :)
15:29:49linuxstbI thought we stopped providing a tarball a while ago?
15:29:58ThomasAHlinuxstb: ah, thanks .. USB Connector and Dimensions/Weight are probably good fields to look at ;)
15:30:24Zagorwe broke it with the new build system and haven't gotten around to fix
15:30:46*linuxstb thought it was a feature ;)
15:31:41ZagorI've been trying to disguise it as such :)
15:32:03AlexPhehe :)
15:32:24linuxstbZagor: You've been doing well.
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15:33:13AlexPI hadn't noticed at all, but there was just someone in the forum asking
15:33:23AlexPI've told them to use svn :)
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16:00:45pixelmalinuxstb: the Ondios have mini-B USB and flash storage ;)
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16:01:22linuxstbpixelma: For charging? ;)
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16:03:23pixelmano, but it's easy to get some alkalines for it
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16:09:57ThomasAHpixelma: but 128MB (+128MB MMC which I have available here) isn't too much ... and where to by the Ondios? :)
16:11:15moonscapexI've been developing rb for a while, but I don't have that forum thing that says 'rockbox developer' under my name. Can someone add this for me?
16:14:32funmanmoonscapex: I think this 'badge' is for svn committers
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16:23:47pixelmaThomasAH: there are 4GB-MMCs. It wasn't a very serious suggestion as with this target you are limited to MP3 (and WAV) and they are hard to get now. (I like mine quite much though as sound quality is quite nice too) - and it met your requirements
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16:26:01pixelmaMP2 works too (just in case someone wants to be nitpicky)
16:26:16Tornedoes anyone have opinions on committing FS #9708, ATA DMA for PP502x?
16:26:39moonscapexHaven't tried it yet.
16:26:46TorneWith the cache alignment change it seems to be reliable; nobody is testing the test build of it, so i don't think it's likely to get any more testing unless it goes in :)
16:27:07moonscapexis it for e200?
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16:27:26*gevaerts is in favour of committing it early and often
16:27:42Tornemoonscapex: haven't a clue. it's for whatever players build ata-pp502x.c :)
16:27:48gevaertsmoonscapex: if you have an e200 modded with a hard disk, yes
16:28:07moonscapexCan someone make me a developer in the forum? My username is moonscapex
16:28:26gevaertsmoonscapex: the developer badge is for committers
16:28:48moonscapexso i must make a patch and get it committed?
16:29:08Torneno, people with commit access to SVN
16:29:29Tornethe people listed in docs/COMMITTERS :)
16:29:33moonscapexOK, sorry.
16:30:21moonscapexI have been developing rockbox for a while now but haven't used svn at all.
16:30:34Tornegevaerts: i am inclined to agree, but some caution is good; it was totally broken the last time people said it was ready L:)
16:31:03gevaertsmoonscapex: in what way exactly have you been developing rockbox?
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16:31:41moonscapexI have created some very popular themes, and have created my own build for e200.
16:32:06moonscapexAlso making some patches.
16:33:21gevaertswhat's your flyspray user name?
16:33:42moonscapexmoonscapex or Will Hauck
16:34:05moonscapexi haven't released any patches yet.
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16:34:22GodEater__afternoon folks
16:34:36moonscapexi am working on one that adds videos and pics to the menu though.
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16:35:16Tornemoonscapex: people who have written patches and had them committed (like me) are contributors and our names go in CREDITS
16:35:27Tornewe are not developers because we ar enot the ones that look after the development of the project
16:36:09GodEater__moonscapex: there are (currently) two badges you can apply for "Artist" for people who create themes, and "Coder" for people who create patches and have had them commited.
16:36:20GodEater__the other badges are ones you cannot ask for you, you are offered them
16:36:30TorneGodEater__: oh, there's a badge for coder? :)
16:36:39GodEater__there is
16:36:46moonscapexOK. how do i apply?
16:36:50GodEater__though it has been suggested recently that it is retired
16:37:02GodEater__moonscapex: which one did you want ? :)
16:37:20moonscapexi think artist would Be best
16:38:49GodEater__you should have an artist badge now
16:39:06moonscapexthankyou so much :)
16:39:13GodEater__you're welcome
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16:41:02moonscapexit worked :)
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16:56:35CIA-43New commit by kkurbjun (r22830): Brickmania: Correct the cycle time to match what it was on the H300.
16:57:22saratogagiven that we still have to remind moonscapex to distribute source code with his binaries, i think it'll be a very long time before he gets svn access
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17:27:00CIA-43New commit by bluebrother (r22831): Add special handling for ipodvideo64mb when detecting the player via rockbox-info.txt.
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17:46:41CIA-43New commit by blue_dude (r22832): Replace limiter with dynamic range compressor
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17:51:19CIA-43New commit by bluebrother (r22833): Clean up a few source strings.
17:52:56Blue_DudeLong build...
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17:55:02scroochhi Bitches :D
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17:56:11CIA-43New commit by blue_dude (r22834): Fix yellow: braces around logf statements
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17:57:06scroochHi I've got the DIFRNCE MP1500 mp4 player ( ... How can I figure out what chips are on it and if it may be compatible with rockbox?
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17:59:06gevaertsscrooch: rockbox will definitely not work on that player. The only way to find out what the chips are (and thus see if a port is possible) is to open it
17:59:07 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
17:59:31gevaertsBlue_Dude: is the compressor disabled on mr500?
17:59:59Blue_DudeIt is enabled only on swcodec targets.
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18:00:34gevaertsmr500 is swcodec
18:01:06scroochgevaerts: alright thats to bad... Are you sure about it because of the screensize of the player?
18:01:12Blue_DudeThen it ought to be enabled. It's disabled by default, though. Nothing happens unless you turn it on.
18:02:06gevaertsscrooch: I'm sure about it because there are no clones of the players rockbox does support
18:02:36scroochgevaerts: hehe alright :) Success anyways with the project ^^
18:02:39gevaertsBlue_Dude: I ask because there doesn't seem to be a red delta for it
18:03:13 Quit JackWinter2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:03:16Blue_DudeI'm not sure. I was kind of hoping for green deltas, to be honest. :(
18:03:41 Quit saratoga_ ("Page closed")
18:04:16gevaertsthere's a tool somewhere in the tree that can help you look for where the memory changes are
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18:17:46kugelBlue_Dude: utils/analysis has two tools to investigate strange binsize/ram usage changes
18:17:56kugelboth are doing he same essentially
18:18:23Blue_DudeI'm looking there now. Will I have to compile a previous version to compare?
18:19:29kugelit takes rockbox.elf fo the revision you want to compare
18:20:06Blue_Dudeok. Know the svn syntax to up to a previous version?
18:20:24Blue_DudeI use svn up to get up to date, but I want to stop short.
18:20:40gevaertsavn up -r <revision>
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18:22:46Blue_DudeI'm compiling an older version. It will be a while.
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18:23:08gevaertsyou could just run make bin
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18:31:41kugelJdGordon|: saw FS #10617 ?
18:32:28JdGordon|yeah, I dont understand it...
18:34:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:35:56*JdGordon| goes for the safe option "are you using the current build" :)
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18:43:15kugelwe really need some regex hook, that checks to force reporting the version they're running
18:44:36kugelJdGordon|: your mail doesn't make much sense
18:44:46JdGordon|which one?
18:44:50kugelthe latest one
18:45:01kugeldoes it fail on every %St tag=
18:45:16JdGordon|yes, because the setting is never found
18:45:19kugelthe first mail sounded as if would report OK for it
18:45:44kugelthen the mail before doesn't make much sense :p
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18:47:20kugelhow about actually compiling] in?
18:47:42JdGordon|and settings.h
18:47:46JdGordon|and mess
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18:48:37JdGordon|actually.. we can maybe fiddle with the macros so we dont need settings.h
18:49:01JdGordon|or it can b changed to always pass in checkwps which i tinhk is silly
18:49:44kugelJdGordon|: re r22826. making the coordinates in skin_albumart actually decreases binsize very slightly
18:49:45JdGordon|actually... the user would have to run it in the sim anyway right?
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18:49:53kugelmaking them ints
18:50:04saratogawoot's got refurbed Sansa Clips for $30 shipped if anyone wants one
18:50:15JdGordon|be quick
18:50:34kugelreordering the members reclaims 4 bytes, it's currently quite ineffecient
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18:52:35kugelsame datatypes should be grouped in structs, the biggest ones first, that gives most efficient alignment
19:00:15JdGordon|was that email more understandable?
19:02:05gevaertsJdGordon|: that will be a lot better than what's there now, so I'd say go for it
19:03:27JdGordon|I'll try to get it done after work this arvo... dunno if I'll have time though
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19:18:37mtsaratoga: Have you looked into liba52's mdct before ?
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19:29:25kugelBlue_Dude: you passed them reversed
19:29:54kugel(see how it is decreased by 1.5k in the last line)
19:31:15Blue_DudeI don't think so. The new variables are in the new line, like gain_buffer. The old variables are in the old line, like limiter_buffer.
19:31:54Blue_DudeYes indeed.
19:32:10Blue_DudeHow sure are we that the build page is working correctly?
19:32:29kugelit always has been
19:32:53kugelit simply checks rockbox-info.txt, which in turn gets its info from
19:33:21Blue_DudeTHe numbers seems OK, too. I don't understand.
19:34:04Blue_DudeDoes the build page take something into account that bloat-o-meter doesn't?
19:40:03Blue_DudeI'm really confused. Old rockbox-info.txt:
19:40:04Blue_DudeVersion: r22831-090925
19:40:06Blue_DudeBinary: rockbox.mi4
19:40:08Blue_DudeBinary size: 620544
19:40:09Blue_DudeActual size: 619404
19:40:11Blue_DudeRAM usage: 1455616
19:40:12Blue_DudeNew rockbox-info.txt:
19:40:14Blue_DudeVersion: r22834M-090925
19:40:15Blue_DudeBinary: rockbox.mi4
19:40:17Blue_DudeBinary size: 619520
19:40:18Blue_DudeActual size: 618532
19:40:20Blue_DudeRAM usage: 1454192
19:42:07Blue_DudeIt's a mystery...
19:46:33pixelmacareful with pasting that amount of lines to the channel, logbot gets fed up quite easily... ;)
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19:56:22pixelmaI need to update but with r22729 the powerups in brickmania don't move at all on my c200 (and I don't think the cycletime commit fixes this effect)
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20:01:03pixelmawow, the ball is bouncing horizontally...
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20:06:57paulk_hello ! I've just downloaded rb 2.4 and I'm playing brickmania. The game is very slow ,is it normal ?
20:07:01pixelmakkurbjun: ok, the non-moving powerups (and way too often exactly vertical or even horizontal) moving of the ball) confirmed with r22834 on the c200. My guess is this SPEED thing becoming zero (for either direction with a real small GAMESCREEN_HEIGHT
20:08:56pixelmae.g. #define SPEED_4Q_X ( 2 * GAMESCREEN_HEIGHT/176) - isn't that 0 if gamescreen height is less than 176/2, so less than 89?
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20:10:38paulk_pixelma: lol, but in previous versions it was working very well.
20:11:05pixelmaand on landscape screens this gamescreen height is defined as LCD_HEIGHT - the c200's display (and the Archoses one and the Clip one etc.) have a smaller display
20:11:31pixelmapaulk_: whether you see this effect depends on your target's screen size
20:11:38paulk_I have to leave you :( thanl-you for the info
20:11:46pixelmaas I understand it
20:11:57paulk_pixelma: I've got a sansa e250
20:12:05 Quit paulk_ ("Ex-Chat")
20:12:35pixelmaerr... he should try a new version
20:14:19pixelmaI didn't realise he joined in the middle of my monologue and was talking about something related but not the same :\
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20:23:27LL-HellHi :) does anyone know where to report a bug I encountered with the fuzev1 port?
20:26:44 Join bymind26111965 [0] (n=ttt@
20:26:55mtLL-Hell: There's the bug tracker link in the menu, on the front page.
20:27:11LL-Hellthe flyspray thing?
20:28:15LL-Hellalright. I was just wondering if it's ok to report bugs regarding the fuzev1 over there since it hasn't been officially released yet.. I think
20:28:47pixelmakkurbjun: less than 88 I meant, for some reason I read that as 178 (although I know it comes from the H300's lcd dimensions)
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20:29:55mtLL-Hell: It should possibly aid the development of the port, so go for it. :)
20:30:07LL-Hellok, thanks :D
20:31:26saratogamt: yes I have
20:32:03saratogathere are two issues with doing that: 1) the ac3 MDCT is in a weird order so you'd have to reorder it first, and 2) it currently has windowing integrated into the IMDCT step
20:32:32saratoganeither of these things is impossible to deal with but it was hard enough that I looked at it and decided it was harder then I wanted to deal with
20:33:01saratogaalthough i have a standing offer to make AC3 very, very fast if anyone ever adds support for it to MPEGplayer
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20:34:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:36:21CIA-43New commit by kugel (r22835): Redo 22825 but this time with caring about alignment. ...
20:36:30CIA-43New commit by kugel (r22836): Rename struct skin_albumart members to be consistent with similar members of other structs. the albumart_ prefix is redundant.
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20:39:55saratogaLL-Hell: yes?
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20:40:28paulk_pixelma: I read the today's irc log, so I should try a new version ?
20:40:44mtsaratoga: hmm .. then was I right in thinking that tremor's imdct doesn't handle the block switching done in ac3 ?
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20:41:37pixelmayes, there was a fix to speed it up again (you'll also find a thread in the forums about it). I was investigating a related issue but not the same
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20:42:40paulk_pixelma: Ok, i've downloaded the lastest brickmania.c and I'm going to compile it :)
20:42:55BuschelTorne: I am also supporting the idea of submitting FS #9708. dreamlayers will hopefully find time to do so.
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20:46:00LL-Hellsaratoga: hmm.. what do you mean "yes"? :)
20:48:58saratogamt: yes the mdct lib does not handle windowing
20:49:06saratogasince each codec uses slightly different windows
20:49:16saratogai never bothered to find a generic way to reuse the code
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20:58:50mtsaratoga: I didn't mean the windowing part .. anyway, I still can't figure out what the sample_t *delay parameter is for, the standard mentions nothing in the transform section other than taking an n-sample block and performing the corresponding processing and fft calculations.
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21:55:13bertrikpixelma, there's a brickmania fix for this in FS #10585
21:57:57bertrikoh, it seems this is the cycle time fix you already mentioned
21:59:14pixelmait seems to have both parts
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22:02:30pixelmahis new speed definitions look quite complicated (to me)
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22:05:11mtI'm starting to wonder whether tremor's fixed point imdct is the fastest implementation.
22:05:58stripwaxmt - you got a faster one, bring it on :)
22:06:19stripwaxi'm serious by the way :) what are you looking at
22:07:13 Quit moonscapex ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:07:34stripwaxmt - actually do you mean you think it is, or you think it isn't? i could read your comment both ways
22:08:29mt:) .. I'm not sure, I just looked at a document from TI about porting libtremor to one of their DSP's. I don't know the algorithm used in tremor but it seemed that they got a nice speedup by optimizing the imdct.
22:09:05mtpre-processing -> pre-rotation ->ifft ->post rotation and processing.
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22:09:57stripwaxmt - i think that's what tremor uses
22:11:01mtThat's what I'm not sure about .. it seems that this is what it's currently using, but fft-based implementations look much simpler (and shorter) than tremor's.
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22:12:50stripwaxis the libmad imdct functionally equivalent to the tremor one? that seems quite short but I haven't studied it
22:15:18mtHaven't looked at it before.
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22:21:50mtstripwax: - starting from page 20
22:24:48stripwaxmt - very interesting! taking a look now. I like the comment they one of the things they needed to do during porting is 'fix bugs and add free() to prevent leaks' :)
22:24:54mtpage 27 : 35% speedup - So either our imdct could be improved using the same method, or I'm missing something. :)
22:25:51mtYeah, I never knew that about tremor, seeing this comment though made me more skeptical about tremor :D
22:29:14mtstripwax: Also, if we used this implementation, we would add an optimized fft to the codec library and then use it with liba52 - would simplify modifying liba52's mdct to use the codeclib I think.
22:29:24stripwaxok so I wonder if they're just saying "if we use our dsp optimised fft, rather than the C from Tremor [given that they won't be able to use the Tremor asm code], we get better performance"
22:30:00stripwaxbut that's the cynic in me, still reading .. :)
22:30:34stripwaxmt - liba52 doesn't use codeclib? could it?
22:31:04mtNo, liba52 has its own mdct and fft implementations.
22:33:50stripwaxI also saw this, but not sure how relevant it is
22:33:51mtI doubt they meant what you said though .. pages 21 and 22 clearly state that they are talking about a different imdct implementation, which uses their optimized fft for more performance gain (But maybe this is just the optimist in me :) )
22:34:19stripwaxmt - so could liba52 not use our existing mdct? or does it need both an imdct and an ifft?
22:34:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:35:06mtI think it could but it seems rather difficult.
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22:37:11mtstripwax: See logs, about 2 hours ago..
22:38:33*stripwax reads logs
22:40:27mtstripwax: The paper you linked to seems to have an optimized complex n/4-point ifft too, if it's faster than TI's, then I guess we could combine ?
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22:49:02stripwaxmt - you ever read this, by the way? there's a 'blog' almost of taking naive implementation of vorbis (incl mdct) -> optimsed vorbis decoder. interesting reading (and the progression in the mdct in particular matches quite closely to what is implemented in tremor..)
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22:51:42mtstripwax: Never seen it, no. I just started searching today. :)
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