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#rockbox log for 2009-09-26

00:00:15 Quit niekie (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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00:09:37 Quit LL-Hell ()
00:12:22kugelsomehow the lang make dependency is broken again
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00:19:07amiconnkugel: On SH1 it is more efficient to order struct members so that the smallest ones come first under certain conditions
00:19:44amiconnThis is due to the possible range of fixed offset addressing depending on whether it applies to bytes, shorts, or ints
00:21:16amiconnOffsets of up to 15 can be addressed - in multiples of 1, 2 or 4 depending on the datatype
00:21:56amiconnLarger offsets require using a register
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00:48:20 Join saratoga [0] (
00:48:40saratogamt: i don't think our MDCT is optimal, but its fairly fast
00:48:59saratogai started working on a faster one based on the FFT rotation method you mentioned before, but haven't gotten around to finishing it
00:49:06saratogaand i'm not sure it'd even be faster
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01:18:41mtsaratoga: I guess it would be faster. Several implementations were able to speed tremor up nicely mostly through new mdct code. Would this also simplify using our mdct in liba52 ?
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01:24:33saratogamt: the a52 code does expect an FFT based MDCT, so it would be simplier
01:24:54saratogahowever, our current imdct is faster then all the FFT based ones already available to us
01:24:55 Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
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01:25:28saratogai started work on one based on the new ffmpeg FFT, which looks quite fast
01:25:39mikroflopshi! is scrobbling support working in the latest Cowon D2 build?
01:25:39saratogai've got some multiplication/addition counts for it if you're interested
01:25:49mtsaratoga: I see. So do you have any code/patches to see if I could help ?
01:26:17mtYes, please. :)
01:27:54mtsaratoga: Check this and the links from stripwax and me in the logs.
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01:30:10moonscapexCan someone rysnc fft.v5? (visualizer plugin)
01:30:22saratogamt: yes I read that a while ago
01:30:33saratogaits for a TI DSP though so I'm not sure how applicable it is to us
01:31:10 Quit intrados (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:31:25saratogalet me dig up my code
01:32:47mter - The last link was for embedded systems, I guess you're talking about the TI document I linked to eariler. This one addresses also systems with a general-purpose processor + a DSP
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01:35:35saratogamt: the link you just posted uses a TI dsp to run the FFT
01:36:18saratogaIIRC they used the TI provided FFT, which is why its so fast
01:36:33saratogathe trick for us would be to write such a fast fft
01:36:55Torneyeah they have highly trained savant midgets they keep locked in woodden boxes with holes drilled in for that kind of thing
01:37:06Tornethey let them out when they need insane dsp coding done :)
01:38:33saratogaIIRC the ARM provided reference MDCT [which of course is not open source] was something like 1/3 faster then our implementation on ARM7
01:42:07saratogamt: i have the code i wrote for an FFT based IMDCT, but its against r18000 or so
01:42:22saratogaI basically took the old WMA decoder from when it still used the ffmpeg IMDCT and started there
01:42:26saratogawould you like a copy?
01:43:23saratogaok i'll 7z the whole folder and throw it up for download so you don't have to track down the right version to patch
01:43:40saratogaIIRC it compiles but the audio is wrong due to some bug in the mdct that i didn't track down
01:43:50saratogaprobabyl a floating poitn value i missed somewhere
01:44:05saratogathe ffmpeg FFT is amazing compact actually, changing it to fixed point was pretty easy, but i did something wrong
01:44:33saratogathey wrote basically the whole thing out of c preprocessor statements
01:44:40saratogaand it preprocesses into an FFT
01:44:50saratogaa very impressive bit of code
01:45:18saratogamt: are you on a fast connection?
01:46:05mtsaratoga: not really - 1mbps dl/ 256 kbps up :/
01:46:41saratogawell a 30MB download should be ok?
01:50:16mt :) .. the project seems idle though.
01:51:16moonscapexcan i have the rockbox coder badge added to my forum profile? my uname is moonscapex
01:51:31mtThanks !
01:51:44saratogamoonscapex: i don't think you have any code in SVN?
01:52:12saratogaand anyway i think we're getting rid of that badge since no one actually has one
01:52:22saratogamt: for what its worth, I think a fast mdct would be very useful
01:52:36moonscapexok... sorry
01:52:40saratogaand i'm sure ours could be made faster
01:54:15mtGreat. I thought so too, but mainly because I thought (or maybe hoped ? :) ) there could be a simpler implementation that was more modular. (similar to ffmpeg's for example)
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01:56:07saratogamt: my original goal was to stick with the old ffmpeg FFT, but it was really slow
01:56:20saratogaIIRC on PP the Tremor one was almost a full third faster
01:58:22mthave you tested the new one vs tremor ?
01:59:05saratogamt: i didn't test it, seemed unfair since it didn't work
01:59:37mtAh ok.
01:59:41saratogaat least on ARM, the latency for multiplies depends on the values being multiplied, so an fft run with garbage values won't run at the same speed as one run with real data
02:00:08saratogai tried to compute the multiply counts for our current MDCT, but that proved harder then i expected due to its complexity
02:00:32mtI see
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02:58:35CIA-43New commit by jdgordon (r22837): new skin tag: %Sx|<english>| will display the current languages translation of the "<english>" string. ...
02:59:00JdGordonrasher: scorche: can you please update checkwps on the themes site for that checkin?
02:59:17JdGordonand can someone else do the manual/wiki addition?
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03:09:14saratogaare there any features I can disable on a clip build to free up more memory while I'm debugging?
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03:16:36JdGordonanyone want to take bets on how long it takes themers to use the new token?
03:18:47saratogagetting the clip to not reboot on USB plugin is hard
03:19:42saratogaunless i'm missing something, logf doesn't actually work on the clip
03:19:48saratogaat least nothing ever prints
03:21:04saratogai have the logf option in the debug menu, so I assume i've compiled it correctly
03:24:32saratogahuh i get no output on the e200v1 either
03:24:36saratogais there something else i have to do
03:32:45JdGordonusb + logf together?
03:34:08saratogano just plain logf, but i think i didn't add the LOGF_ENABLE define
03:34:36saratogaalso FS #9734 - logf add log level would be REALLY nice to have in SVN
03:36:25JdGordonso commit it :)
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03:41:44saratogai don't really understand that code well
03:41:49saratogabut i will probably try to commit something
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03:54:01saratogakugel, JdGordon: for what its worth, the clip also reloads the codec inappropriately when skipping tracks, just like the sim
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04:38:47saratogacan anyone see why this would deadlock rockbox:
04:39:02saratogathe screen just goes blank and i have to hard reboot
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06:16:31rasherJdGordon: checkwps is updated once a day.. Any reason we can't wait for that?
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08:24:32amiconnJdGordon: There is a disadvantage in using the english string in r22837 vs. using special tags per string (e.g. the prefix idea). In fact your commit msg already mentions it (...must be exactly...). What happens if an english string changes in svn (typo fix, different capitalisation or better wording)?
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08:26:25to3xHi, is there a way to make rockbox ignore the battery status? my battery (ipod nano 1st gen) always reports 0% making rockbox shutdown...
08:28:34amiconnOh, and scanning the whole list of string for every %St tag seems very inefficient. Did you (let it) test on a slow-cpu target before commit?
08:32:53to3xI am curious if there are maybe some parameters or flags that I could set to make it ignore the battery status, because actually the battery still lasts for several hours even if reported as being empty...
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08:44:51robin0800amiconn: What about %Sx=english as a single tag in the WPS and then just change english if required
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10:18:57RPG_MasterI just put Rockbox on my fuze
10:19:14RPG_MasterDO you think it'll drain my battery faster?
10:19:24RPG_Masterthen with the factory firmware
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10:43:46funmanmy YH920 HD was completely corrupted yesterday after I took it to do some sport
10:44:33funmanwhile operating, I noticed the file browser only showed very weird filenames, and after powering it down it would turn on (low battery)
10:44:53RPG_MasterWill Rockbox drain my Fuze's battery faster?
10:44:56funmanafter charging it a bit, the OF bootloader says it can't read the disk
10:45:01funmanRPG_Master: a bit faster yes
10:45:30funmanI think I can run mine for 7 to 9 hours
10:46:57RPG_Masterfunman: :(
10:47:05RPG_MasterThat's not good...
10:49:07pixelmafunman: sports with a HD target?
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10:57:11funmanpixelma: i had no playback problem
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12:15:40Papricasomeone is here?
12:16:04Grahack138 persons, or about
12:17:08Papricano one is speaking
12:17:20Papricai need a little help
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12:20:16amiconnHmm. AAC isn't very efficient on coldfire :\
12:20:55GrahackPaprica: don't ask if you can ask your question, ask it, and read
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12:47:13CIA-43New commit by bertrik (r22838): Sansa Fuze/e200v2: protect lcd a little better against concurrent access
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14:49:10GeekShado_new wiki ?
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15:34:23cheslotHow remote control runs?
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15:34:57cheslotHow remote control runs?
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16:29:58DirtySkeMei did install rockbox on a ipod nano 1st generation
16:30:18DirtySkeMeno way to pause skip or stop
16:30:48DirtySkeMeeverything work but no control when i play a track
16:32:32pixelmadid you enable "Party Mode" accidently?
16:33:53DirtySkeMei don't think so
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16:35:13DirtySkeMeyeah it was on
16:35:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:36:35DirtySkeMei do i switch back to the regular firmware
16:39:57DirtySkeMeand turn it off too
16:40:39n1sDirtySkeMe: the manual tells you how to do that among other things
16:41:55robin0800_DirtySkeMe: I don't think the ipod party setting will effect rockbox?
16:42:28*bertrik spots an error on the MajorChanges page
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16:51:36pixelmarobin0800_: Party Mode is a Rockbox setting
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16:58:34CIA-43New commit by nls (r22839): FS #10569 RTC driver cleanup ...
17:02:17robin0800_pixelma: I know I was not sure why he thought he had to go to the OF to change something as well
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17:08:54n1syay, red
17:11:51dfktdoes USB HID control work on the cowon x5 and/or sansa clip? i searched the wiki and manuals (and of course all settings on my players), but didn't find out how to use it
17:13:13dfktnope to my question?
17:13:45n1sthe x5 has a hardware usb-ata bridge so we can't do it and i don't think rockbox has working usb on ams targets yet
17:14:53dfkti see... damn. thanks for the info
17:15:08CIA-43New commit by nls (r22840): Add missing parentheses to fix red
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17:21:59kkurbjunnls, don't most of the clock chips work in BCD format?
17:23:06kkurbjunsorry, n1s that is
17:23:30maffeI cannot find the voice files
17:23:36maffeon the web page
17:23:44maffe refers to
17:23:48CIA-43New commit by rob (r22841): Make the EQ screen usable in touchscreen grid mode by resolving keymap conflicts.
17:24:54n1skkurbjun: i think so but i still think this is much cleaner for the chips that don't and only slightly less convenient for the chips that do
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17:30:02pixelmakkurbjun: seen my little complaint yesterday about brickmania on small screens?
17:31:09kkurbjunn1s, fair enough, it does clean it up quite a bit
17:31:15kkurbjunpixelma: no, I have not
17:31:49*gevaerts disappears for a while. He needs some sleep
17:32:34n1skkurbjun: yes i think it does and some of the ones that do use bcd still had to jump through hoops to conform to the expected order of the data
17:34:48pixelmakkurbjun: bertrik also pointed out that there is a bug report (with an attached fix) for it. Basically one of each speed settings can get zero if the gamescreen height is under a certain limit - which means the ball sometimes either moves completely vertically - or even horizontally amd that powerups don't fall down anymore
17:36:26kkurbjunI see that bug report..
17:36:59kkurbjunso what screen size is having trouble?
17:37:34bertrikmaybe the ball speed and position could be done in a higher precision (e.g. using fixed point)
17:37:38kkurbjunI am curious if there should be provisions for screens that are even smaller
17:38:18kkurbjunbertrik: well, that could take into account really small screens
17:38:27kkurbjunthat would be a ton of work to add to brickmania though
17:38:55pixelmaif I understood correctly everything with a gamescreen height (= LCD_HEIGHT on landscape screen) less high than 176/2 - which means c200 (80) and the newer small Sansas and the bitmap Archoses (64)
17:39:53pixelmaI saw it on the c200 but could also test on my Ondio
17:40:35kkurbjunso, another part of the problem on really small screens is that the differnt paddle position hits will calculate out to the same x speed
17:41:36kkurbjunso if you hit quarter 4, 3, or 2 on the 64 pixel archos the speed will calculate out the same
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17:42:33kkurbjunshort of what bertrik suggested (changing the calculations out to fixed point) this will be a problem
17:42:56kkurbjunactually the y speed has the same problem
17:43:01pixelmawell it worked fine before, even if code was less unified
17:43:39kkurbjunI really don't have the time to convert brickmania to fixed point - I will just revert the /fix/
17:44:35pixelmaas I said, on my c200 the ball currently moves horizontally between a corner of the paddle and the side... (and as it saves and resumes, I kept it this way...)
17:45:06pixelmajust in case anyone wants to see it ;)
17:45:36kkurbjunI could fix it easily to have everything calculate out to non zero at the least as the patch in the bug report does
17:45:49kkurbjunpixelma: I believe you
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17:46:12kkurbjunpixelma: could you try that patch and see what you think of the results?
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17:50:50pixelmakkurbjun: sure, it'll take a bit. But you could also have a look yourself in a sim, just saying
17:51:51kkurbjunI know what the results are going to be, I want to get a second opinion on the playability of the patch
17:52:12kkurbjunI am assuming the patch works, but it changes the way that the game is played
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17:56:57pixelmaok, updating and compiling. As I said it'll take a bit.
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18:13:00casainhois there a way to search on IRC log?
18:14:08casainhohow? :-)
18:15:13n1sgoogle <THING_I_AM_LOOKING_FOR>
18:15:18n1sfor example
18:15:53n1s(or do it as amiconn does and download them all and grep)
18:18:00n1syou should not use <> btw, they are only there to emphasise the fact that you should substiutute the token
18:18:29casainhoon google I coun'dt find what I were looking
18:18:50casainholooks like that way it do not work as I was expecting
18:20:31n1sit's like regular google, limited to the specified site
18:21:06casainhook, thanks anyway
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18:24:46pixelmadid anyone else notice that when leaving robotfindskitten after end of game, the first line still scroll in the statusbar area? Maybe it only happens on small enough displays where it has to scroll. I wonder this is a statusbar or a plugin big
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18:25:29*pixelma tries again: "I wonder whether this is a statusbar or plugin bug"
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18:35:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:37:43pixelmakkurbjun: it feels better than there is now, I can't tell for sure how it compares to the older versions, it seems though that the powerups fall down a tad bit too quick (but I could be wrong) and that the initial release angle is a bit more diagonal (more steps in x-direction) than it used to
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18:38:10pixelmatested on the Ondio
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18:59:54Bob_Chi everyone, how do the link scripts ( etc) get picked up by make? I need to make a new script file for a new port
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19:21:47Grahackpixelma: I don't play robotsfindskitten, but noticed this on the iPod simulator while playing with the Lua plugin too. The first line sometimes still scrolls.
19:22:42BagderBob_C: they don't get "picked up by make", make finds it needs to link and the link command line uses the link scripts (.lds)
19:26:47Bob_COk, so how does link know what lds to use?
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19:29:38Bagderthe tools/root.make specifies it
19:29:54Bagderuse make V=1 to see the full command lines
19:29:59Bob_Cso it is in the makefile then?
19:31:03Bagderyes and no
19:31:33CIA-43New commit by rob (r22842): Improved Cowon D2 touchscreen driver. ...
19:33:39CIA-43New commit by rob (r22843): Add a few pixels "dead zone" between the touchscreen grid "buttons", to avoid jitter. ...
19:35:46Bob_Cok, never mind
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21:03:11casainhoJdGordon: ping
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21:37:13Bagderseptember 25th, the svn server sent out 746.039 MB of data handed out 2.58GB
21:38:20Bagderand 2.73 GB
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21:45:43bertriknice handed out 4.92 MB (yes M) ;-)
21:48:28bertrikWhat do you mean by svn server then?
21:48:46Bagderusing the svn protocol, with an svn client
21:49:04Bagderthe latter being the http server
21:49:59bertrikOh, so that means quite a few users actually compile rockbox from source?
21:50:34Bagderindeed. but it also includes build clients of course
21:51:22Bagderwe just started this logging so I can't tell if this was much or little in comparison to other days
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21:54:15bertrikIf you think of it, one build round generates quite a bit of traffic indeed. 152 builds times (say) 2MB each ...
21:54:44Bagdernot all 152 causes that much traffic, the majority only upload logs
21:55:02Bagderthere's "only" some 35 or so that upload zips
21:56:01bertrikah yes, not every build ends up on the download page
21:57:23Bagderhm, the uploads to the web server aren't included in there...
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22:45:37Bagderit makes you curious...
22:50:22evilnickAh, the RAZR port. Shouldn't the source be available too?
22:50:29Bagderit should indeed
22:50:52Bagderas it says rockbox 3.3 I figure it should be reasonably up-to-date
22:51:17evilnickAbout 3 months old at most, I'd say :)
22:51:33Bagderwow, how did you figure that out? B)
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22:58:44saratogawe could save a lot of that bandwidth if we used 7z for the builds
22:59:03amiconnThat's oold
22:59:35*amiconn thinks that if rbutil gets 7z support, switching would be no problem
22:59:49linuxstbIs bandwidth an issue?
22:59:55*linuxstb looks towards Sweden
23:00:20Bagderit's not really an issue, no
23:00:52amiconnIt would mean faster build uploads from those clients on slow(ish) uplinks, and also faster downloads for users with slow connections, regardless of bandwidth issues in general
23:01:07Bagderbut creating the 7z files is much slower than zips...
23:01:33Bagderbut I guess it's hardly noticable on these small amounts of data
23:01:49Bagderit is clearly noticable when we 7z the source tarball
23:04:45saratogai think it depends on the 7z compression level
23:05:36*amiconn always 7zips his local builds
23:06:13Torneeven modest 7z compression levels are way slower than zip
23:06:24 Quit Bob_C ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
23:06:31Torneunless you make it compress files independantly
23:06:45Tornethe spanning gives it the chance to build really huge dictionaries
23:08:08saratogaon my windows machine using 7zip as the compressor, the max option for zip and 7zip give 2000kb/s and 1750kb/s throughput
23:08:16saratogaalthough i don't know if the 7zip zip code is any good
23:09:11evilnickIs there any benefit to using zip with 7zip though?
23:09:12saratogaIMO 2MB/s is plenty fast on an oldish machine like I'm running
23:10:02saratogasince builds are so small
23:11:04Tornesaratoga: hm, it dpeedns on the input size though
23:11:30Torneuntl you reach the dictionary size, anyway
23:12:55saratogaTorne: I used a 2MB dictionary, larger sizes make almost no difference in compression for rockbox
23:13:47 Quit evilnick ("TTFN")
23:14:23saratogaactaully even a 1MB size is enough
23:14:57Tornesaratoga: yah, that's a long way from max compressionthen ;)
23:15:09Tornein performance terms, i mean
23:15:13Tornenot actual compressionratio
23:15:27saratogaeven a 32KB diction still saves over 800KB vs. zip
23:15:37Tornei'm perfectly happy to believe it makes no difference for rockbox but i assure you that multiple-hundred-mb dictionaries are hundreds of times slower thaan zip :)
23:15:53Torne(and need gigabytes of ram)
23:16:10saratogaoh yeah
23:16:14saratogafor large files I believe it
23:16:58saratogai just meant that for our purposes if we don't care about saving the last 50KB out of the file, we can get zip like compression speeds and still have very large savings in file size
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