#rockbox 2009-10-01

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#rockbox log for 2009-10-01

00:00:44	Hillshum	Roger__: Tell it to build the library, plug your device in, right click on music and tell it to sync
00:00:57	robin0800	Roger__: no I hate media monkey
00:01:07	Zagor	sure. I just need to check out all the files first.
00:02:23	Hillshum	Roger__: This is getting off topic too. >> #rockbox-community ?
00:02:36		Join Stephen_ [0] (n=S@86.45.119.71)
00:03:05	Roger__	sorry, thanks
00:04:56	tomers	Sometimes in the past someone told me about a cool utility to compare two patches. Anyone aware of any?
00:05:11	Hillshum	diff?
00:06:01	Torne	interdiff
00:06:03	tomers	No. I worked on a vanilla code, apply a patch, and then added my own stuff. I want to see the diff between the current modified code to the original patch
00:07:02	tomers	Torne: Thanks. Seems to be it
00:08:56		Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
00:09:50		Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
00:12:04	Torne	hm, i need a disassembly of ipod diag mode :)
00:12:05	kugel	http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT093009110932&p=1 - very interesting
00:12:09	kugel	oops
00:12:26	*	Torne thinks he's found the a2ds with the charger detect
00:12:50		Quit barrywardell ()
00:22:08	Torne	interesting
00:22:28	Torne	the pcf50605/6 datasheet says only the 50606 has ADC
00:22:57	Torne	yet the ipodvideo port does ADC while claiming to be a 50605
00:24:30		Quit bertrik ("De groeten")
00:27:37	saratoga	anyone willing to host test files for test_codec?
00:27:43	saratoga	i doubt i have enough space for a comprehensive set
00:30:04	Hillshum	saratoga: Zagor?
00:30:35	Zagor	how much is it?
00:31:51	saratoga	Zagor: 242MB
00:32:02	Zagor	no problem
00:32:10	Zagor	can you make them?
00:32:13	saratoga	ok let me upload what i can and i'll send you the link
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00:37:12	stripwax	Torne - does that adc also do accessory detect?
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00:37:46	Torne	I don't think it's the same one, no
00:37:55	Torne	There are a lot more adc values shown in diagmode than we read.
00:38:15	Torne	suspect the hardware may be using all 5 adc channels?
00:38:27	Torne	we only read 3 (well, 2 in svn, the third is from the charge current patch)
00:38:38	Torne	diagmode appears to have an adc hooked to D- and D+
00:38:47	Torne	and calculates a charging yes/no flag from those.
00:39:02	Torne	which is consistent with reports on the internet
00:39:16	Torne	i'm gonna throw diagmode into ida and take a look
00:39:32	Torne	see if it's using the pcf for them all, and which channel/modes it uses
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00:40:26	stripwax	Torne - what's the charge current patch?
00:40:42	Torne	fs#9728
00:40:51	Torne	shows current flowing into/outof battery on ipodvideo, maybe others
00:40:56	Torne	appears to eb accurate :)
00:41:01	Torne	(uses scaling factors from diagmode)
00:41:36	stripwax	so more accurate charging / discharging status?
00:41:43	stripwax	or just for info
00:41:59	saratoga	Zagor: http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/files.zip.001
00:42:05	stripwax	(I see that patch is just for debug_menu)
00:42:10	Torne	it's just for info
00:42:19	Torne	the patch just displays it in battery status
00:42:32	saratoga	Zagor: this too: http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/files.zip.002
00:43:30	stripwax	saratoga - what codec(s) are these for? I'm thinking we should have some test-case files hosted somewhere too for semi-regular regression testing (e.g. those vorbis files that caused crashes on some gigabeats a month or two back)
00:43:41	stripwax	^should have^should also have (somewhere)
00:43:49	saratoga	stripwax: most major ones
00:44:26	stripwax	is it basically the output of that standard test file thru all the codec bundles, or a bunch of other stuff also?
00:44:36	saratoga	that and APE as well
00:45:10	saratoga	Zagor: bah forget it those files come out corrupted anyway
00:45:19	Zagor	oops :)
00:45:43	saratoga	let me try sending via SSH to my school
00:46:50		Quit bmbl ("Bye!")
00:49:55	saratoga	http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/files1/
00:49:57	saratoga	first batch
00:50:11	saratoga	will send the others after dinner, let me know when you have them
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00:59:32	Zagor	saratoga: I have them. but I'm off to bed now. I'll grab the rest tomorrow morning.
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02:15:25	Hillshum	saratoga: ping
02:15:40	saratoga	Hillshum: pong
02:15:56	Hillshum	Have you uploaded any more?
02:16:10	saratoga	http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/files2/
02:16:29	saratoga	curiously my quota seems to have been increased
02:16:37	saratoga	though let me know if you can't get them for some reason
02:17:22	saratoga	I am very interested in seeing updated benchmarks for PP, gigabeat, AMS, or TCC
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02:17:57	Hillshum	I guess the Clip isn't the best test platform due to the crashing...
02:18:22	*	Hillshum compiles an e200 build
02:19:00	saratoga	crashing is a non-issue for test_codec since it doesn't use the playback engine at all
02:19:07	saratoga	instead it simply won't run
02:19:15	saratoga	unless its been updated recently
02:22:20	Hillshum	ahh.
02:22:34	saratoga	yeah that hasn't been fixed
02:22:46	saratoga	so test codec won't work on the clip for files much bigger then a few hundred KB
02:23:18	Hillshum	Now, why did my kernel cpu usage go up to about 20% while compiling (and stay there)?
02:23:37	saratoga	huh actually even the e200v2 is going to have problems since its only got 8MB
02:24:15	saratoga	Zagor: link is above
02:25:56	tmzt	is there something that needs tested on fuze? (v1)
02:26:14	Torne	yup, ipodvideo has an external mux controlled by GPIOs which routes various signals into one of the ADCs we don't currently read
02:26:21	Torne	including the voltage on D+ and D- of usb
02:26:23	Hillshum	tmzt: microSD
02:26:34	tmzt	from svn or patches?
02:26:43	Torne	the details f how it usses that to detect the charger are not 100% clear but it's obviously how it works from looking at the diag mode code
02:27:14	Torne	i shall have to rip the diagmode apart a little more another day and add the extra adc channels to rockbox
02:28:06	CIA-43	New commit by kugel (r22863): e200v2/Fuze: Improve scrollwheel a little bit by assuming the previous wheel value if no new value was found (which happens if a single wheel value ...
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02:29:09	saratoga	Hillshum: probably files bigger then 5MB won't work on the e200v2 without improvements to test_codec.c
02:29:28	Hillshum	Hmm.
02:29:45	Torne	gevaerts: see above, think i've found how to detect the charger on ipod :)
02:30:26	saratoga	i don't think it would be that hard to fix (basically just have read_filebuf and request_buffer check if they're about to run out of buffer space, and if so get the current time, rebuffer, and then subtract the amount of time needed to rebuffer from the total time)
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02:31:07	Hillshum	I'm not about to fix it personally...
02:31:17	saratoga	yes i can do it eventually but not tonight
02:31:24	saratoga	in the mean time it would be interesting to see benchmarks on larger memory targets, or to have more codec samples from other formats
02:31:41	saratoga	we have nothing for AC3, Cook, ATRAC, and ALAC for instance
02:33:32	saratoga	also AAC-HE and SHN
02:33:33	kugel	btw, are there more containers for atrac?
02:33:41	saratoga	yes also some Sony one
02:35:54	tmzt	ALAC can be produced with iTunes
02:36:26	*	kugel is bitter that the hold button doesn't work with bertrik's dbop rework
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02:37:53	saratoga	produce some then
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05:54:39	CIA-43	New commit by FlynDice (r22864): AMS Sansa: Replace another simple delay with a more intelligent MCI FIFO status check.
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07:25:22	CIA-43	New commit by tomers (r22865): FS #9157 - Tidy up some MAS35XX constants
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07:36:17	pixelma	Llorean: the patch is not made for the one with a broken Rec key...
07:40:22	CIA-43	New commit by tomers (r22866): FS #10226 - isp1583.c code cosmetics
07:42:05	pixelma	tomers: are you sure about the MAS_D? There are two supported MAS "models"
07:43:04	tomers	pixelma: Please explain... Do you mean replacing #else with #elif ?
07:43:59	pixelma	yes, I'm always curious if someone who I think does not own the hardware changes something in this target specific code
07:44:46	pixelma	unfortunately I can't tell myself if it's a change for the better
07:45:46	tomers	You are right regarding not owning the hw. I once stumbled upon this code (my first try to fix something) without realise it has nothing to do with the e200. Nevertheless I thought it should be fixed.
07:46:40	tomers	I've looked at mas35xx.c, and it seems there are only three brands of MAS_D: MAS3507D, MAS3539D and MAS2587D
07:48:31	tomers	I know it is a bit dangerous... This is a special case I decided to risk - I am not going to do that regulary. The build results are all green, Does it tells it is OK?
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08:11:25	pixelma	tomers: there's also a MAS_F if I remember correctly and I just wondered if the #else was there to catch both but I better leave this to someone else... (e.g. amiconn)
08:19:04	amiconn	tomers: There are 3 different MAS types used in rockbox targets, but they're not all MAS_D. The 3539 and 3587 are MAS_F (MAS3539F and MAS3587F)
08:19:21	tomers	amiconn: Thanks. I'll revert this
08:19:23	amiconn	The commit looks okay though
08:20:14	tomers	I won't revert. Just checked and indeed it looks ok
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08:21:13	amiconn	I was confused a bit about the MAS_REG_KBASS and MAS_REG_KTREBLE for the 3507D, but that's okay as well
08:22:07	tomers	Look in the FS item for the specs that are attached...
08:22:59	*	amiconn has all MAS manuals since he has targets with all three MAS types
08:26:29	amiconn	In general, if you're changing something low-level for target(s) you don't own, it's usually a good idea to ask for testing
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08:29:01	amiconn	pixelma: The various #else's were there to catch the 3507D, assuming we'll never see another target with a different MAS
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08:30:44	Llorean	pixelma: Well, that's what the thread is about, and Petur called it "a fix" in that thread and the only "problem" reported is the broken Rec key, so I don't understand.
08:30:50	amiconn	Imo this assumption will hold, although other MAS types exist (most of which probably don't fall in the 'D' but in the 'F' group, e.g. the MAS3539F is part of the MAS35x9F family, where the x can be several different digits)
08:30:53	Llorean	What's it supposed to fix, in that thread, other than the problem the thread is about?
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08:34:52	bertrik	FlynDice, in r22862 you changed sdhc to sd_v2, I think it's not automatically the case that v2 cards are also high capacity
08:35:59	bertrik	Not sure if it is wrong yet (it's been a while since I looked at that), but I just like to check
08:38:24	tomers	amiconn: I'll take your advice regarding the testing with other users. Regarding the #elif, I've double checked it don't hurt anything, and prefered to have a more strict testing, so newer MAS types will have to strictly define their values
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08:41:56	tomers	One more thing about testings - the FS was there for a very long time... I agree I should have actively ask people for testing, though :-)
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09:05:21	pixelma	Llorean: my guess was that petur thought the original poster just concludes this because he can't start a recording with it anymore - petur or the original poster are the ones who to speak to. I just wanted to point out that there was a change in the code which might lead people to think so (and which this patch is supposed to fix)
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09:06:21	Llorean	Gotcha. Yeah, it makes more sense after reading your forum post
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09:12:49	pixelma	tomers: RockboxTesting in the wiki for a list of IRC nicks who you could ask for testing on a specific target
09:20:46	swiftkick	Dear Diary,
09:20:46	swiftkick	Last year I replaced all the windows in my house with those expensive double pane energy-efficient kind. Then, this week I got a call from the contractor who installed them. He was complaining that the work had been completed a whole year ago and I still hadn't paid for them. Now just because I'm blonde doesn't mean that I am automatically stupid.
09:21:09	swiftkick	So, I told him just what his fast talking Sales guy had told me last year.... Namely, that in ONE YEAR these windows would pay for themselves! Helllooooo? It's been a year! There was only silence at the other end of the line,so I finally just hung up. He didn't call back. Bet he felt stupid.
09:21:26	swiftkick	oops sorry guys
09:21:30	swiftkick	argh
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10:22:15	CIA-43	New commit by zagor (r22867): Added necessary styles for wiki search.
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10:28:16	Zagor	codec test files are now available here: http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/
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11:18:44	robin0800	Zagor: Looking at your test files what is used to decode Mp3 Vbr ?
11:23:21	Zagor	robin0800: saratoga made these files. from the filename I assume the mp3 files are all cbr
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11:29:28	Llorean	Zagor: I know there's several lossless files, is there some reason the source .WAV isn't there too (I guess we don't really need to benchmark the .wav "codec"?
11:31:31	Zagor	no. I just put up the files saratoga made.
11:33:44	Zagor	the wiki page links to a flac file as source
11:35:41	Llorean	I don't know how much sense .wav would make anyway (at least for test_codec). I guess it would serve to show the "maximum" speed though.
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12:23:38	notlistening	Hi, I just tried to post a private message on the forums and the verfication box is totally unreadable, even for a fully sighted person is this a know issue
12:25:39	Llorean	Did you try clicking "request another image" a few times?
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12:26:39	*	gevaerts encourages any feature that keeps his PM inbox empty ;)
12:28:28	Llorean	I've found a quite good solution to that, actually. My inbox is currently "1728% full" since it went from unlimited to the normal-user limit. :)
12:30:07	Llorean	I do notice that the registration captcha seems to occasionally generate "bad" ones where you several of the characters aren't there at all.
12:30:47	TheSeven	yep, also got such a thing back when i was registering
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12:45:35	pixelma	notlistening: there's also a button to let it read out for you
12:46:09	notlistening	Okay i have to go back and see again because i am being more blnd than usual
12:47:50	notlistening	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=useremail;u=24001
12:48:12	notlistening	npw as far as i can see there is no regenerate button or listen to options
12:50:16	Llorean	You're trying to send an email, not a PM. Just reload the page.
12:50:39	Llorean	I do suspect it's broken though, as I'm getting the same code every time.
12:50:41	Torne	poll: has anyone ever plugged their dap into a usb port without enough power to run it and been annoyed that you can't get it to just talk usb without charging? :)
12:51:18	Llorean	Torne: Which DAP does this?
12:51:47	Torne	all rockbox targets with swusb
12:51:56	Torne	the descriptors in usb_core.c always request 500mA
12:52:29	Torne	so properly behaving USB stacks will refuse to talk to us at all unless 500mA is available
12:53:20	Torne	(this is regardless of whether we actually support usb charging on that target, or whether we have a setting for whether usb charging is allowed)
12:54:35	Torne	i'm looking at fixing up the ipodvideo (+other) usb charging support, and am wondering if it's worth the effort of making the usb charging enable setting actually change the descriptor on targets where it's possible for us to actually regulate our current usage.
12:54:57	Torne	(not entirely sure which targets this is, but ipodvideo is one)
12:55:01	gevaerts	if we have the setting, I think it's a good idea
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12:55:50	Torne	the setting is there already on some targets
12:56:13	Torne	gevaerts: i found vaguely how apple detect chargers, btw
12:56:21	gevaerts	I saw, yes
12:56:51	gevaerts	of course now you have to write code to make use of it :)
12:56:57	Torne	so i'm looking now at implementing spec compliant behaviour for actual USB hosts first
12:57:16	Torne	then will do the A2D stuff for charger detection later once i've read a bit more of diagmode.ipod :)
12:57:35	Torne	(we might need some user help to see what values different chargers give)
12:58:49	Torne	i figured since i seem to be one of the primary people arguing against committing the patch for fs#8802 in its present state that i should see about writing a better one ;)
12:59:01	Llorean	Didn't we used to have charger detection?
12:59:20	Torne	on ipod? not htat i know of
12:59:24	Llorean	Yes, on iPod
12:59:27	Llorean	Look back a few years.
12:59:33	Llorean	Long before we had swusb.
12:59:33	Torne	hmm
13:00
13:00:00	Llorean	It got broken by a "fix" later on, but for a period it would reboot to disk mode if you attached to a computer, or simply charge if you attached a dedicated charger.
13:00:09	pixelma	yes, it killed the automatic reboot into the OF on USB plug in some builds
13:00:20	gevaerts	I think we had some sort of activity detection
13:00:25	Torne	Oh.. hm.
13:00:40	*	gevaerts isn't sure. He wasn't there
13:00:42	Torne	suggestion where to look? ;)
13:00:58	Llorean	Sorry, couldn't say.
13:01:04	pixelma	in cases where it should reboot (USB data connection)
13:01:05	Llorean	My first guess would be "commits by linuxstb or preglow"
13:01:21	Llorean	It was exclusively an iPod thing, and for quite some time they were about the only people committing ipod-specific code.
13:02:39	Torne	http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/usb-fw-pp502x.c?r1=15772&r2=15774 <- looks related
13:04:13	Torne	i don't htink that's the same kind of detection..
13:04:28	pixelma	I think it was committed by the end of 2006 as I remember having trouble with amiconn's 2nd gen Mini, he lent me during my Ondio's backlight mod
13:05:08	Torne	http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=12198 possibly
13:05:21	Llorean	Torne: I don't know if it's the same kind, I just know the behaviour it had on my Nano - if I used a dedicated charger (Griffin car charger, for example) it didn't reboot and behaved as other Rockbox players do on wall power, if I attached it to my PC it rebooted into disk mode.
13:05:35	Torne	Llorean: yah, but that works now also
13:05:49	Torne	i'm not talking about telling the difference between a host and a non-host
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13:06:04	Torne	i'm specifically talking about identifying an Apple AC adapter via the adc readings from D-/D+ pins
13:06:25	Torne	which signals that it's safe to draw lots of power without negotiating with a host (apple's own usb charging "spec", before the real one was written)
13:06:47	Llorean	I'm confused then between "non-host" and "charger"?
13:06:55	Llorean	What provides power, is non-host, and isn't a charger?
13:07:52	gevaerts	a nuclear power plant
13:07:55	*	gevaerts runs away
13:07:58	Torne	a PC with a crashed usb stack
13:08:09	Torne	a charger that can't deliver 500mA
13:08:10	Torne	etc
13:09:12	Llorean	Yes, but does that mean we're going to intentionally not draw 500mA from chargers that don't identify themselves "just in case"?
13:09:22	Torne	that's what i'm suggesting, yes
13:09:29	Torne	also known as "complying with the usb spec"
13:09:29	Llorean	That seems a bad idea.
13:10:05	Llorean	I have about a half-dozen chargers for various devices (most of them 1000mA) with USB plugs. What's the likelihood most/any would pass your test?
13:10:17	Torne	depends.
13:10:30	Torne	they might implement the standard way from the new usb charging spec, possibly :)
13:10:36	TheSeven	Torne: not even complying with the USB spec. That requires a far lower current if there is no bus activity
13:10:37	Torne	which I think the ipod has the hardware to detect. but not sure.
13:10:49	Torne	TheSeven: er, what?
13:10:53	Llorean	Torne: If it's a new USB spec, could it be on a charger two years old?
13:10:59	Torne	Llorean: unlikely
13:11:01	*	TheSeven needs to look it up
13:11:09	Llorean	It seems like this is a way to simply lock out a lot of chargers and confuse users.
13:11:12	Torne	TheSeven: You can draw 100mA as soon as you get voltage on pwr/gnd
13:11:24	Torne	Llorean: at the moment we don't draw 500mA from anything on ipod
13:11:27	Torne	host or not, charger or not
13:11:35	Torne	so it never charges properlt
13:11:51	Llorean	Which is also bad.
13:11:57	Torne	TheSeven: if you have no power supply of your own, you need to :)
13:12:14	Llorean	Torne: You're proposing replacing "bad" with "a different bad" though from my perspective.
13:12:37	Llorean	Saying "chargers are support" won't really be true if it's only chargers made specifically for iPods, and ones made in the last X months.
13:13:42	Torne	Llorean: yes, i know
13:14:04	TheSeven	[13:09]<Torne>TheSeven: You can draw 100mA as soon as you get voltage on pwr/gnd
13:14:06	TheSeven	wrong.
13:14:13	Llorean	I mean I doubt my cheap Energizer AA USB charger will pass the test either.
13:14:24	Llorean	And if it's only having 100mA drawn from it, it's pretty much pointless.
13:14:45	Torne	TheSeven: really?
13:14:56	TheSeven	let me quote it from the specs...
13:15:53	TheSeven	500µA
13:16:21	Torne	..really? when do you get to draw the unit load, then?
13:16:54	TheSeven	as soon as there is bus activity
13:17:23	Torne	fun
13:17:34	TheSeven	then you may draw up to 100mA, and if you need more, you must request that from the OS, which will check if enough current is available in that place
13:17:58	Torne	well, that makes even the useless behaviour we have non-compliant then :)
13:18:06	TheSeven	just drawing whatever you want isn't an issue at all if you're dealing with chargers, but it is, if the ipod is connected to a bus-powered USB hub
13:18:15	Torne	yes, i know
13:18:20	Torne	i tested this with my keyboard just now :)
13:18:37	Torne	it makes everything else on the hub stop working
13:18:40	Torne	which is unfortunate :)
13:19:25	TheSeven	there are 2 possible reactions in that case: either the hub shuts off power to that port, or if it's a cheap hub, it can't do that, so the host shuts off power to the hub.
13:20:43	TheSeven	see page 178 (PDF page 206) of the USB2.0 specs
13:20:58	Torne	right.
13:21:11	Torne	Llorean: what behaviour do you want, then? :)
13:21:38	Torne	the patch on fs#8802 adds direct control of the 100/500mA select pin on the power controller
13:21:47	TheSeven	honestly, I'd go for 100mA if there is bus activity, and 500mA else
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13:21:52	Torne	if you turn the usb charge setting on it draws 500mA, whatever you plug it into, even if you don't get permission
13:21:58	Torne	if you turn it off, 100mA always
13:22:10	Torne	dreamlayers didn't intend this to be committed as is :)
13:22:13	Llorean	That's more or less what I'd like to see. A manual choice between 500 and 100, and never letting the software decide (unless there's a guaranteed method to know what can be provided)
13:22:17	Torne	but it proves the GPIOs work
13:22:31	Torne	Llorean: for USB hosts, there is.
13:22:49	Llorean	Torne: Exactly, so in their case, the software should decide if the host says it can't provide as much as we want.
13:23:02	Llorean	If the user says 100 and the host says "but yeah, I can do 500" it shouldn't jump up, though.
13:23:12	Torne	yes.
13:23:13	Torne	that's fine
13:23:25	Torne	the original question i asked at the stard of all this is "should we change what we ask for", though
13:23:29	Torne	which i think the answer to is yes
13:23:32	Llorean	Basically, the user is deciding a maximum, and what to do if there's no host to negotiate with
13:23:42	Torne	(we currently always ask for 500 even if we are guaranteed not to use it)
13:23:50	Torne	(which means you cna't connect to low power hubs at all)
13:24:02	TheSeven	USB activity, unconfigured => 100mA, USB activity, configured, but didn't allow more current => 100mA, USB activity, configured, 500mA allowed => 500mA, no USB activity => 500mA seems most compatible to me
13:24:27	Llorean	Is it possible to say "draw as much as you can get" rather than capping at 500?
13:24:30	Torne	TheSeven: unfortunately allowing current doesn't work that way
13:24:35	Llorean	I thought a lot of Apple chargers are actually 1000
13:24:36	Torne	Llorean: Not sure.
13:24:40	Torne	yes, they are
13:24:43	TheSeven	Torne: why?
13:24:45	Torne	but i don't think the power controller has that option
13:24:52	Llorean	And I think i've got a 2000 "USB" charger around here somewhere
13:24:54	Torne	TheSeven: if you ask for 500 and the host syas no then you don't get configured
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13:25:04	Torne	TheSeven: you can't change your mind and keep connecting, afaik
13:25:04	Zagor	yes, both my iphone chargers (one apple, one third party) are 1000 mA
13:25:16	Torne	Yes
13:25:23	Torne	the iphone uses the actual usb chargingn spec, afaict
13:25:58	TheSeven	Torne: that should work by just providing 2 configuration descriptors, one high-power and one low-power one, and letting the host choose
13:25:59	Torne	which just says "if D+/D- are shorted with 200ohm then pull as much as you like, we are a regulated charger"
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13:26:04	Zagor	TheSeven: how long do you wait for bus activity before using full power?
13:26:21	Torne	I don't know if we have a bit on the ipodvideo to turn off the power controller's regulated input.
13:26:21	TheSeven	or you could do a soft disconnect if 500 fails, and then provide the 100 descriptor
13:26:33	Torne	TheSeven: ok, but i'm not about to implement that :)
13:26:36	Torne	that's too much usb for me :)
13:27:34	TheSeven	Zagor: i think you may draw full power immediately, and need to go down to 500µA again if there was no activity for 10ms or some such, need to check
13:27:37	Torne	so yeah. the problem is how do you decide that the thing you're connected to isn't a host, and that you aren't going to upset it by pulling lots
13:28:01	Torne	also i't snot clear exactly which GPIOs to set to stop drawing power ;)
13:28:14	Torne	atm it always does 100 or 500; there is some way to make it stop but i'd have to fiddle to work that one out
13:30:26	TheSeven	Zagor: yep, it is 10ms
13:30:55	Zagor	isn't that odd? you get to pull insane amounts of power for 10ms?
13:31:00	Torne	wait, you're allowed to draw full power immediately, but then have to stop after 10ms if you've not been enumerated?
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13:31:11	TheSeven	[13:26]<Torne>atm it always does 100 or 500
13:31:17	TheSeven	nano2 OFW is doing that, too
13:31:32	TheSeven	so it will draw 100 as soon as there is power, no matter the usb state
13:31:32	Torne	TheSeven: i'm not at all doubting that most or even all of the OFs do that on every player :)
13:31:58	Torne	that still doesn't mean it's right..
13:32:58	TheSeven	Zagor: as soon as there is activity, you may draw 100mA, for up to 10ms, and need to fall back to 500µA after that. Once you are configured, there's usually keepalive traffic every 3ms or such to stop that from happening
13:33:49	TheSeven	if it isn't, it means the host fell into some kind of standby mode, and that all devices must go back to 500µA within 10ms
13:33:55	Zagor	right. so when can you pull the full 1000 mA? or is apple screwing the spec like everyone else?
13:34:21	gevaerts	TheSeven: where do you get that 500µA requirement?
13:34:35	Torne	Zagor: you can't have 1A unless you do the new usb charging spec.
13:34:49	Torne	which is "notice that D+ and D- are shorted together", more or less
13:34:59	Torne	at which point you are allowde to turn your regulator off and drink all you are given iirc
13:34:59	Zagor	Torne: ok
13:35:01	TheSeven	Zagor: you can pull 500mA when you're configured, there is activity, and the OS has granted that much power to you
13:35:22	Torne	Zagor: Apple also have their own way of signalling this
13:35:28	Torne	which they used before the usb charging spec was written
13:35:32	Torne	which appears to be different.
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13:36:01	TheSeven	Torne: not only that, you may try to pull more than 1000mA to make the charger apply current limiting, to adjust the voltage you get and therefore reduce heat dissipation while charging
13:36:05	Torne	(D+ and D- pulled up/down to vcc/gnd respectively via particular resistances, detected via ADC)
13:36:23	gevaerts	TheSeven: "suspended" is not the same as "no activity"
13:36:24	Torne	Zagor: it looks like ipodvideo at least supports both
13:36:31	TheSeven	gevaerts: [13:19]<TheSeven>see page 178 (PDF page 206) of the USB2.0 specs
13:36:42	Torne	so it will work with both old apple chargers, new apple chargers, or with new USB-charging-spec compliant chargers. I think.
13:36:53	TheSeven	yep, but no activity leads to suspended after 10ms
13:36:57	gevaerts	no
13:37:32	Torne	anyway, yes, TheSeven clearly knows the specs better than i do, i hadn't yet got to the stage of actually checking any of this
13:37:56	Torne	but the fundamental question remains: should we actually follow the specs all the time, or should we try and charge from USB power sources which don't have any wya of telling us it's ok to do so?
13:38:32	TheSeven	gevaerts: checking again, but I think I read that somewhere in chapter 9
13:38:41	Torne	the details of how to handle the negotiation with hosts is good and we should really do that right, because there's not really a downside to doing so when we're connected to a host.
13:38:53	gevaerts	TheSeven: well, yes, but that sort of "no activity" is not the same as e.g. no UMS traffic
13:39:21	gevaerts	Also, it can't happen before enumeration
13:39:37	Torne	i'm personally happy with spec compliant behaviour, but that's because the only usb charger i have follows the spec.
13:39:45	Torne	:)
13:39:52	TheSeven	"In order to conserve power, USB devices automatically enter the Suspended state when the device has observed no bus traffic for a specified period (refer to Chapter 7). When suspended, the USB device maintains any internal status, including its address and configuration.
13:39:54	TheSeven	All devices must suspend if bus activity has not been observed for the length of time specified in Chapter 7. Attached devices must be prepared to suspend at any time they are powered, whether they have been assigned a non-default address or are configured. Bus activity may cease due to the host entering a suspend mode of its own. In addition, a USB device shall also enter the Suspended...
13:39:56	TheSeven	...state when the hub port it is attached to is disabled. This is referred to as selective suspend."
13:40:52	gevaerts	ok. I was wrong about the enumeration bit...
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13:42:01	TheSeven	gevaerts: yes, I was talking about bus activity, not UMS traffic, and as I said, there is some keepalive bus traffic to prevent that from happening as long as the host is up and running (and thus able to supply those 100mA)
13:42:04	gevaerts	We don't actually handle suspend at all though, and I'm pretty sure that no OS suspends devices during an actual MSC connection
13:42:26	gevaerts	the SOF packets are still sent, yes
13:42:42	*	gevaerts votes to ignore the suspend case for now
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13:43:06	TheSeven	gevaerts: an OS should release the configuration before shutting something down, but what if it e.g. crashes? :-)
13:43:45	TheSeven	and yes, i also vote to ignore that suspend case, as I've never seen any problems with drawing 100mA. This suspend case is mainly intended for battery-operated hosts.
13:44:22	TheSeven	the question was just when to draw 100mA or 500mA, and i just stated that not even drawing 100mA all the time is really compliant because of this suspend thing.
13:45:45	gevaerts	I also suspect that enough devices handle suspend wrong that OSes don't rely on it
13:47:38	Torne	ok.
13:47:47	TheSeven	actually, almost every device i've seen until today handles that one, and it looks like the USB IF even certifies most of them
13:47:56	Torne	so i don't think anyone disagrees that it'd be nice if we did the 100/500 switching when we had a host properly
13:48:09	Torne	and i can probably do that quite easily for ipod (dunno about other targets)
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13:48:29	Torne	beast already does it, and looks like it's probably rihgt
13:48:34	gevaerts	I think we should do 100/500 in a spec compliant way, and add a setting to allow getting 500 anyway if no host is detected
13:48:55	TheSeven	gevaerts: sounds good
13:48:56	gevaerts	and possibly a setting to only ask for 100
13:49:04	gevaerts	i.e. no USB charging
13:49:04	Torne	gevaerts: there's already a setting for "enable usb charging"
13:49:14	Torne	what this does on various targets seems to differ though :)
13:49:19	gevaerts	ok, "keep a setting to ask for 100" :)
13:49:55	Torne	so how do we do the no host thing?
13:49:56	Torne	timeout?
13:50:01	Torne	then go with the user's preference?
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13:50:04	TheSeven	Torne: the 100/500 switching is done by a GPIO on the old ipods?
13:50:09	CIA-43	New commit by markun (r22868): add support for comments in ID3v2.2
13:50:13	Torne	TheSeven: Not sure about old ipods
13:50:18	pamaury	pcc1: hello
13:50:23	Torne	unless you mean "Ones we support already"
13:50:36	TheSeven	with old, i mean the portalplayer ones
13:50:38	FlynDice	bertrik:(for the logs) RE: r22862 That is correct, not all v2 cards are necessarily high capacity but the test at that point does not determine if the card is HC but only if it is V1 or V2. If it is V2 we need to send the HCS bit along with the allowed voltage range. If it replies with the CCS bit set it is HC.
13:50:39	Torne	right
13:50:47	Torne	the more recent portalplayer ones have a GPIO for it
13:50:55	Torne	the less recent portalplayer ones i think are unknown
13:51:22	TheSeven	ok, on the Samsung ones, it's all I2C
13:51:28	Torne	right
13:51:32	Torne	i kno wnothing about those
13:51:54	TheSeven	actually I'm right now trying to find out how to enable 500mA on them
13:52:09	Torne	the GPIO toggling patch dreamlayers wrote is for 4g/5g, mini 2g, nano 1g
13:52:17	TheSeven	(as 100mA is not even sufficient to stop them from discharging in some cases)
13:52:28	Torne	100mA is not enough to stop the PP-based ones discharging either
13:52:40	amiconn	Llorean: Test fils for .wav might actually make sense. Not so much for plain pcm, but for adpcm and stuff like that
13:52:51	TheSeven	well, for the nano, it proabably is, as long as you don't open all clock gates at a time, like ibugger does
13:53:00	Torne	TheSeven: well, maybe
13:53:03	chb	are there any voice files for the sansa v2 players - I can only find v1 voice files
13:53:06	Torne	it's not enough for the hard disk based pp ones )
13:53:18	Torne	which is the case i care about personally ;)
13:53:20	Torne	having an ipodvideo
13:54:13	Torne	Is there any value at all in trying to detect chargers via the adc then?
13:54:18	Torne	i guess there is
13:54:38	Torne	because even if you have a setting to say "draw 500ma from anything"..
13:54:42	Torne	you could ignore tha tsetting being set to no if you detect that you are connected to a spec compliant charger (or to an apple charger)
13:55:52	markun	did my patch cause the red?
13:56:29	markun	looks like some internal compiler error
14:00
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14:22:01	markun	amiconn: do the HWCODEC targets have support for gapless playback?
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14:29:32	Zagor	markun: yes, but only with specially massaged mp3 data
14:31:14	pamaury	hello, I'm sure I've already asked it but how with git can I sync a branch (say mtp-experimental) with another (say master) to have all recent changes applied to it ?
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14:35:29	markun	Zagor: ok, then I guess my itunes gapless patch could use some ifdefs for SWCODEC
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14:37:12	Zagor	markun: yes
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14:41:15	funman	pamaury: git pull?
14:42:20	pamaury	funman: I remember someone telling me that there could be some problem with the history
14:42:46	funman	pamaury: git pull −−rebase will reapply your local commits on top of the merged branch
14:43:06	funman	problems with history only matter when you redistribute your whole tree to other people, not when you only redistribute patches
14:44:02	pamaury	ah ok
14:44:49	funman	local history can always be changed (save all the patches, reset −−hard, apply all the patches again for example)
14:45:24	pamaury	yes you're right
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15:50:04	Ypsy	Aloha
15:50:52	Ypsy	I've got a few questions to the Fuze (v1) version. Is it still possible to boot the usual firmware afterwards? and what does "USB -> no" mean?
15:51:26	funman	yes dual boot is possible, and usb is not handled by rockbox (the fuze reboots to OF when usb is plugged)
15:52:08	notlistening	:P funman types faster than me ;)
15:52:08	Ypsy	ah okay so for filling it with music and charging i'll just boot the normal firmware
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15:53:41	Ypsy	would it be a good idea to format and reset the player before starting?
15:58:40	mc2739	Ypsy: you do nit need to reboot to the OF for charging. It is not necessary to format your player before install, but you can if you prefer
15:58:52	mc2739	nit = not
15:58:58	Ypsy	okay
15:59:17	Ypsy	then i'll now give it a try :)
16:00
16:01:10	mc2739	Ypsy: In Rockbox, you can charge while using your player by pressing a button while inserting your USB cable. On the Fuze, it is the select (center) button
16:01:32	Ypsy	ah nice :)
16:01:54	Ypsy	this isnt working with the of, is it? :P
16:02:36	mc2739	no, this is a feature of Rockbox
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16:43:47	Ypsy	isnt it possible to use the quickstart options for the fuze?
16:44:00	Ypsy	(in the rb utility)
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17:06:00	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:14:59	*	TheSeven potentially found that memory corruption bug on nano2g
17:15:29	TheSeven	rockbox has different memset() arguments than apple
17:21:00	funman	TheSeven: memset() has the same prototype on rockbox than on C89?
17:21:47	TheSeven	rockbox: memset(buffer, value, size);
17:21:58	TheSeven	apple (and thus me): memset(buffer, size, value);
17:22:53	gevaerts	what? Apple has size,value?
17:23:17	Zagor	posix is overrated...
17:23:25	gevaerts	that's not posix, that's C
17:23:36	Zagor	indeed :)
17:23:39	gevaerts	void memset(void s, int c, size_t n);
17:23:56	*	gevaerts copied that straight from the C99 spec
17:23:56	funman	gevaerts: nano2g firmware doesn't claim any C compliance
17:24:50	*	likemindead is away: FAILURE −− Sometimes your best just isn't good enough.
17:25:13	funman	likemindead: please avoid those messages here
17:25:30	TheSeven	well, it at least confused me quite a bit as i was used to seeing it the wrong way round all the way disassembling the OFW
17:26:02	Torne	lots of embedded systems use it the wrong way around, yes
17:26:11	Torne	because it's easier to do bzero() then
17:26:45	gevaerts	that's not a good reason
17:27:03	Torne	i didn't say it was a good reason
17:27:35		Part LinusN
17:27:38	*	gevaerts suspect that people just did it wrong and then tried to rationalise it
17:29:54	*	Torne has seen compilers which generate calls to a support function which is usually called something else but is memset with the 2nd/3rd args reversed even. :(
17:33:03	TheSeven	Torne: for zeroing out structs and such stuff?
17:33:16	*	TheSeven really needs to look at a disassembly of copying a struct
17:33:43		Quit Zagor ("Don't panic")
17:33:52	*	gevaerts doesn't mind if people have a function that uses this order, but if they call it memset() they should be fired
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17:36:27	Torne	TheSeven: yeah, that kind of thing
17:36:51	Torne	gevaerts: unfortunately when i'm disassembling something and i find a functio nthat sets a range of memory to a particular value i name it memset even if the args are not the same ;)
17:37:11	gevaerts	Torne: you should name it ()tesmem
17:37:22	Torne	but it's not backwards either! :)
17:37:34	TheSeven	the arg's aren't backwards either, too
17:37:48	TheSeven	Torne: honestly, you should name it broken_memset or weird_memset, to not confuse people reading that disassembly later
17:38:14	TheSeven	metesm() :-D
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17:40:30	Torne	so, er, did we come to a conclusion about the usb charging stuff?
17:40:59	Torne	I'm gonna see about supporting the "proper" behaviour on USB hosts (controlled by a setting)
17:41:16	Torne	is it worth me figuring out how to detect the ac adapter, though, if people are going to want to ignore that anyway?
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17:45:15	TheSeven	host / non-host is the more important decision than if an ac adaptor complies to the one or another standard
17:45:39	TheSeven	btw, what's the recommended way to flush the data cache in a rockbox driver?
17:46:51	saratoga	you mean to write the cache_flush functions
17:46:55	Torne	TheSeven: well I was gonna just do it for hosts for now
17:47:20	Torne	TheSeven: on the basis that that patch should be fine/safe/etc for everyone and it will let the ipods charge properly for most people
17:47:39	TheSeven	saratoga: where do these functions belong?
17:47:51	TheSeven	that mmu-arm.c isn't really applicable to the s5l8700
17:47:54	Torne	i guess the most complete way would be to also detect the ac adapter via any method that works..
17:47:56	saratoga	TheSeven: they're usally in the target tree for each CPU family
17:48:05	Torne	and then still have a setting to allow charging anyway
17:48:09	saratoga	but since they're generic to most arm chips of a given version, you may not need to write them
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17:48:41	gevaerts	Torne: I agree. Make sure that the ipod charger detection can be added later :)
17:49:08	TheSeven	saratoga: so you would say i should place them in target/arm/s5l8700/pmu-s5l8700.h?
17:49:11	saratoga	I think all ARM9 chips for instance have the same cache flush commands
17:49:20	saratoga	yes that would be fine I think
17:49:25	saratoga	if you're not sure look at how AMS does it
17:49:33	Torne	yes, ARM cache stuff is generic
17:49:40	saratoga	its just a CP15 command right?
17:49:52	Torne	very generic, in fact; ARM7/9/11/A8/etc all use the same CP15 commands modulo minor intresting things
17:50:11	Torne	(like XScale being weird, and old chips not having harvard caches)
17:50:31	TheSeven	yep, but it still doesn't work, as that mmu-arm.c thing references things, that simply don't exist for ARM9
17:50:41	*	likemindead is back (gone 00:25:50)
17:50:48	TheSeven	should I ifdef that out?
17:51:01	TheSeven	likemindead: please read http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines
17:51:23	Torne	TheSeven: like what?
17:51:38	saratoga	ARM7 isn't harvard fwiw
17:51:51	likemindead	Guidelines noted. I will use them as a guide.
17:52:19	Torne	saratoga: up to the person synthing it, no?
17:52:35	saratoga	AFAIK they're all Von Neuman
17:52:45	Torne	but probably not relevant for us since the only arm7 targets we have are arm7tdmi, no?
17:52:48	Torne	which has no cache
17:52:50	TheSeven	likemindead: then please configure your IRC client accordingly, to not post such things
17:52:53	Torne	even on the chips where it does :)
17:53:03	Torne	(portalplayer)
17:53:43	saratoga	I think all ARM7 have a single wide load pathway so i don't think you could make them harvard even if you wanted to, except maybe in thumb mode
17:54:06	saratoga	though i guess no one is prevented from redesigning the arm7 front end to be wider, though i don't know if its still arm7 if you redesign it
17:54:24	TheSeven	the issue was more-advanced mmu stuff in there requiring some reg defines, which just don't exist on the s5l8700, as it doesn't support segmentation for example
17:54:44		Quit petur ("work->home")
17:55:44	Torne	the TTB stuff is for MPU arches
17:55:57	likemindead	By definition, following a guideline is never mandatory (protocol would be a better term for a mandatory procedure).
17:56:00	Torne	if you have an MMU you want the code that imx31l uses, modulo one or two instructions..
17:56:07	likemindead	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guidelines
17:56:09	likemindead	;-)
17:56:36	saratoga	ok how about you just stop being annoying and we agree not to ban you for it
17:56:45	TheSeven	Torne: the non-imx code, minus the ttb stuff, matches better
17:57:08	Torne	is it an mmu or mpu?
17:57:11	gevaerts	likemindead: not banning you is also not mandatory
17:57:26	likemindead	:::rolls eyes:::
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17:57:45	TheSeven	he doesn't know /me?
17:58:25	Torne	they're pretty similar anyway, no?
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17:58:54	Torne	oh, no, i'm looking at the wrong bit..
17:59:21	Torne	sorry, yeha, the imx one uses the byrange cache funcs which are only on armv6
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18:19:50	TheSeven	Torne: so what to do about it? ifdef that TTB stuff somehow?
18:20:14	*	TheSeven is angry that his current rockbox build hangs while booting up
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18:32:17	*	TheSeven managed to port the new FTL to rockbox now
18:32:34	TheSeven	let's stress test it a little to see if those bugs have gone away
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18:43:12	TheSeven	no, that didn't fix the data corruption issue
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19:12:13	TheSeven	does anybody know how the rockbox FAT driver handles blocksizes != 512?
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19:21:42	TheSeven	is there anybody here who has a clue about the FAT driver?
19:22:07	gevaerts	probably
19:24:19	gevaerts	TheSeven: my guess is that amiconn is probably the one to ask
19:24:30	*	gevaerts bases this on r11659
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19:49:06	saratoga	anyone want to speculate why my patch for doing logf directly to disk works fine on the sim but only creates a blank file on AMS?
19:49:07	saratoga	http://pastebin.com/m474692ce
19:49:16	saratoga	i'm a little confused
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20:00:25	domonoky	saratoga: did you check if the file open/close work/ are called correctly on target ?
20:01:16	saratoga	no but i assumed they did
20:01:21	saratoga	perhaps I should try a more mature target
20:01:57	domonoky	saratoga: and also the check at line 181 in this patch is probably not what you want, you are comparing if the two char pointers are not the same. not their contents (but that shouldnt be the problem)
20:02:46	saratoga	hmm good catch
20:03:01	saratoga	i blame uchida for that one
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20:08:19	domonoky	saratoga: where do you call logf_file_close() on sims ? i only see it in the target part of clean_shutdown(). And it may be called too late on target ?
20:09:22	*	TheSeven finally fixed that "NAND data corruption" issue
20:09:41	TheSeven	in fact it was a misunderstanding on how rockbox storage works on linuxstb's side :-)
20:12:49	saratoga	domonoky: it probably doesn't get called on the sim
20:13:03	saratoga	i don't think thats a problem, you just don't get the end of log message printed
20:13:58	saratoga	also wow theres a whole mess of wma optimizations posted to ffmpeg
20:14:10	domonoky	not closing a file, might corrupt it so you dont see any content i think.
20:18:09	saratoga	how would that happen?
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20:57:25	saratoga	what happens if i call strcmp on an empty char[] buffer?
20:58:58	saratoga	i guess it won't be equal pretty quickly so it just terminates
20:59:35	gevaerts	if you're lucky
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21:06:01	saratoga	hmm is "/.rockbox/logf.log" not a valid rockbox path?
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21:10:55	TheSeven	does anybody know how those ipods with 1024 bytes per sector are formatted?
21:11:29	TheSeven	are they simulating 512 byte sectors and have a 512-based FS on them, or are they exposing the 1024 byte sectors?
21:11:40	TheSeven	(and thus have a 1024-byte-FS on them)
21:11:53	gevaerts	they actually have a 2048 byte FS on them
21:12:27	TheSeven	2048 bytes sector size or cluster size?
21:12:41	gevaerts	sector
21:12:49	TheSeven	how does this work then? fat.c looks like being hardwired to 512 to me
21:13:02	gevaerts	they actually expose a 2048 byte sector size over USB
21:13:04	TheSeven	it includes fat.h and that defines SECTOR_SIZE as 512
21:13:29	gevaerts	indeed it does. That's there to confuse people!
21:13:43	*	gevaerts was confused by it when he did the MSC support
21:13:59	TheSeven	how does it work then? some include path trick that makes it use another file?
21:14:40	*	gevaerts will now say some things that may well be totally wrong
21:16:10	gevaerts	The storage drivers all expose 512 byte sectors, hence SECTOR_SIZE is 512. The ipod ata driver can recognise this 1024 byte sector disk, and on seeing it, it makes sure to do 1024-byte I/O (by e.g. reading 1024 bytes, overwriting 512 of them in RAM and writing the lot back when asked to write 512 bytes)
21:16:34	gevaerts	The fat driver does some additional magic that I'm not familiar with...
21:17:10	gevaerts	It's all caused by this strange ipod not being there when the drivers were first written
21:17:23	TheSeven	i just had a look at the fat driver and it looks to me like it can't ever work with SECTOR_SIZE being something different than assumed by the FS, as it directly passes the calculated sector numbers down to storage, without doing any magic on them
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21:17:58	TheSeven	if I however define SECTOR_SIZE as 2048 and expose 2048-byte-sectors through storage, everything works just fine
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21:21:15	*	gevaerts doesn't know more about this
21:21:41	saratoga	domonoky: so I tried hardcoding a string write immediately after opening the file
21:21:50	saratoga	and the file gets created but the write never happens
21:22:59	domonoky	saratoga: strange.perhaps try with open-write-close to see if that works.
21:26:16	saratoga	trying that now
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21:28:58	saratoga	huh that works
21:29:10	saratoga	so it must be the close
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22:06:32	TheSeven	the rockbox FAT driver is buggy
22:06:46	TheSeven	it panics, while trying to fiddle with some nonexistant files.
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22:10:52	TheSeven	i think it's trying to create some file in .rockbox, but it doesn't work somehow
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22:11:53	Paprica	hi, someone knows how to play spider splitare? I need tasters for my plugin XD
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22:25:21	TheSeven	amiconn, gevaerts, whoever: is there any sensible reason for keeping SECTOR_SIZE=512? it seems to work just fine with 2048, and everything else leads to a huge overhead in both performance and flash wear, and doesn't even seem to work properly
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22:28:17	gevaerts	TheSeven: I suspect that it has to remain 512 on any target that can ever meet 512 byte sector filesystems. The nano presumably isn't one of those though
22:28:32	TheSeven	yep, that seems to be true
22:28:38	TheSeven	i'll go for a
22:28:52	TheSeven	#ifndef SECTOR_SIZE
22:28:54	TheSeven	#define SECTOR_SIZE
22:28:56	TheSeven	#endif
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22:29:10	TheSeven	construct now, and define SECTOR_SIZE = 2048 in config-ipodnano2g.h
22:29:15	gevaerts	of course there could be some hidden bugs if you change it, but that shouldn't be a reason not to change things
22:29:35	notlistening	domonoky, http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10312 enjoy ;) Just writing the development notes on my wiki see the post.
22:29:40	TheSeven	yep, i'm more or less trying to bring those up - so far caught only one hardwired 512
22:30:18	gevaerts	I know there's one in usb_storage.c, where I defined my own SECTOR_SIZE...
22:30:27	*	gevaerts can't remember why he ever did that
22:30:46	TheSeven	there's another 512 hardcoded in there btw, that isn't even using your SECTOR_SIZE
22:31:01	gevaerts	probably because I didn't want to have anything to do with FAT, but that can also be solved by moving that to the config system
22:31:03	TheSeven	just spotted that accidentally, the one bugging me was in disk.c
22:31:20	gevaerts	oh indeed. Bad me!
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22:33:29	*	TheSeven wonders what led() is doing in nano2, it's used in ata-nand-s5l8700.c
22:33:55	CIA-43	New commit by gevaerts (r22869): get rid of one hardcoded 512. SECTOR_SIZE is still there. It should probably move up (to storage.h?) so fat and usb storage can share it
22:35:08	TheSeven	gah, another conflict for my patch ;-)
22:35:25	TheSeven	ah, wait, it was the other 512, so it shouldn't hurt
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22:37:11	TheSeven	"ATA error: 1\n\nPress ON to debug"
22:37:15	TheSeven	what the hell does this mean?
22:37:55	gevaerts	it means you met old code :)
22:38:05	TheSeven	any idea where it is?
22:38:30	Zagor	that's in main, isn't it?
22:39:12	TheSeven	yep, grep just caught it
22:40:29	domonoky	notlistening: great. so i know what todo this weekend :-)
22:41:27	notlistening	domonoky, if i can help anyways let me know
22:41:44	notlistening	I am off to a ubuntu Jam :?
22:42:49	bertrik	oh the red fixed itself
22:43:06	domonoky	notlistening: will do. have fun at the jam :-)
22:43:35	notlistening	thanks ;)
22:47:51	amiconn	TheSeven: The 80GB 5.5G has 2048 byte logical FAT sectors, 512 byte logical ATA sectors, and 1024 byte physical ATA sectors. Confused?
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22:48:30	TheSeven	only by one point: what is logical != physical good for?
22:49:17	gevaerts	TheSeven: the disk is addressed in 512-byte sectors, but can't handle odd addresses
22:49:22		Quit Strife89 (Client Quit)
22:49:28	gevaerts	(more or less, I hope)
22:49:36	amiconn	Also, the disk's firmware doesn't handle partial sector accesses, i.e. while you're always addressing it based on 512-byte sectors, you must start at even sector numbers (counting 0-based) and read even numbers, otherwise the disk sets IDNF
22:50:28	TheSeven	why don't you just emulate that as 1024-byte sectors, even though you might need to multiply the internal sector number by 2?
22:50:56	amiconn	That would be difficult
22:50:56	TheSeven	what is the downside of keeping it simple that way?
22:51:13	kugel	bertrik: I tried your dbop patch again. I'm totally out of ideas why hold doest work (I tried adding a delay and changing DBOP_CTRL bits a bit)
22:51:14	Torne	TheSeven: The ATA spec doesn't allow for it
22:51:27	Torne	TheSeven: it was easier to keep soem modicum of compatibility this way
22:51:32	amiconn	It would mean that you always have to read and write 1024 byte sectors, but the buffers in the FAT driver only hold 512 byte sectors
22:52:01	gevaerts	TheSeven: not all ipod video disks behave like that
22:52:11	amiconn	Yeah, that's another point - ATA always addresses in multiples of 512 bytes, regardless of physical sector size
22:52:13	TheSeven	yep, that's the point: why do they only hold 512 and not 2048 bytes, as the FS is based on 2048 byte sectors?
22:52:37	TheSeven	what you're doing at ATA driver level has nothing to do with that
22:52:41	amiconn	The buffers are often on stack, and stack is limited
22:53:11	amiconn	Also, this driver is shared across all targets, and low memory usage is highly desired
22:53:36	TheSeven	i don't know of low-memory targets that don't have 512-byte sectors
22:53:47	amiconn	So far the MK8011GAH is the only disk which is unable to handle partial accesses we know about
22:54:03	TheSeven	and almost every NAND chip
22:54:27	Torne	TheSeven: the natural sector size for a NAND chip is the eraseblock size, though, not the page size
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22:54:40	Torne	if only FSes didn't choke on that :)
22:54:48	Torne	it would make ftl much easier
22:55:01	TheSeven	well, using the write block (i.e. page) size is a sensible way to get around this
22:55:36	TheSeven	and a FS with 1MB sectors would be neither space nor wear efficient
22:55:36	amiconn	There's a newer, large capacity 1.8" hdd (forgot the type) which even has 4096 byte physical sectors. That one is working fine without any physical sector magic (in fact rockbox needs to be compiled without it in order too work)
22:55:36	TheSeven	FTLs do a much better job there
22:55:37	TheSeven	and obviously adjusting this per-target isn't an issue, so for now I'll just go for SECTOR_SIZE=2048 on nano2g
22:56:02	*	amiconn thinks the ata driver should actually probe for partial sector support, and only apply its own magic when the disk complains
22:56:09	Torne	amiconn: surely it should in theory work better if we did treat it as 4096 sectors
22:56:13	Torne	er, bytes
22:56:20	amiconn	It doesn't
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22:56:26	Torne	that's.. weird.
22:56:30	amiconn	It's in fact worse
22:56:49	bertrik	kugel, did you try "pre-charging" it both as 1 and 0?
22:56:57	kugel	yep
22:57:10	bertrik	also I was thinking that maybe this pins is connected to another pin
22:57:25	bertrik	I think I should just have a closer look at how the OF does it
22:57:41	amiconn	If the disk does it, the disk knows that more partial sectors could be transferred from the host, so it delays writing a bit. However, if rockbox has to do it, the ata driver doesn't know this, or at tleast it can't be guaranteed
22:57:43	kugel	our SVN code is based on the OF code
22:58:20	amiconn	Hence the driver has to insert each partial sector in a full sector, writing each full sector several times (not reading though, since that is cached)
22:58:27	TheSeven	ok, there are now 2 storage bugs left for nano2g: Something is still wrong with writes, and with dcache enabled something goes terribly wrong
22:58:41	amiconn	This causes the disk head to constantly jump back& forth a bit - extremely slow
22:59:15	Torne	amiconn: ah, right. so it's worse because we don't cache writes, pretty much?
22:59:20	Torne	it would be better for an OS which did, though..
22:59:31	kugel	TheSeven: are you using dma of some sort?
22:59:45	TheSeven	yep, and in theory i clean the caches properly, but it just won't work
22:59:49	amiconn	The only exception is when writing actual data clusters - those are transferred directly from memory, in full size (up to 128KB, the maximum possible ata transfer size w/o LBA48 support)
23:00
23:00:02	kugel	the samsas had horrible problems with sd transfers when initially enabling dcache
23:00:36	*	pixelma wonders what is so hard about spelling out AMS sansa and without
23:01:15	kugel	cleaning/flushing wasn't enough. the dma buffer needs to be uncached if the address is not cache-aligned (I can't tell it in detail)
23:01:36	kugel	FlynDice and funman know more about the problems we had with dcache
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23:02:35	amiconn	Torne: Caching writes is calling for real trouble
23:02:44	Torne	amiconn: yes, i'm not suggesting we do this
23:02:58	Torne	i am just checking i understood you
23:03:14	Torne	if we were a desktop OS that did cache writes it probably would be better to follow the physical sector size, but we don't, so it's not.
23:04:22		Quit dash32 ("Verlassend")
23:04:32	TheSeven	kugel: can you quickly name a target that has this fixed, so i can check how it was done??
23:04:49	amiconn	Also, SECTOR_SIZE != 512 means opening a can of worms. I expect all sorts of bugs creeping up
23:05:04	kugel	all samsas (or AMS sansas...) see target/arm/as3525/sd_ata_as3525.c
23:05:20	kugel	make sure to check the svn log
23:05:30	TheSeven	[23:03]<amiconn>Also, SECTOR_SIZE != 512 means opening a can of worms. I expect all sorts of bugs creeping up
23:05:38	TheSeven	one of the reasons why i'm doing this
23:05:52		Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Fwump")
23:06:01	kugel	but doing data cache in such an early state of a part seems like asking for trouble
23:06:08	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:06:43	domonoky	correctly flushing caches with dma is really important :-)
23:06:47	FlynDice	TheSeven: lsee also system as3525 and pcm-as3525
23:06:59	FlynDice	for memory mappings
23:07:50	FlynDice	and FS #10048 for the problem solving...
23:08:07		Quit XXXX (Remote closed the connection)
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23:12:05	kugel	FlynDice: can you tell if the scrollwheel is better or worse after my commit last night?
23:12:08	TheSeven	FlynDice: wow, nice trick!
23:13:01	funman	FlynDice: why did i know this FS# by heart ? ;)
23:13:03	FlynDice	kugel: I can't tell better or worse but it's working fine right now...
23:14:56	FlynDice	funman: Didn't it take as long to figure that out as for you to write the rest of the code?.... ;)
23:15:20		Quit bertrik ("De groeten")
23:15:51	*	kugel was hoping to see that FS# never ever again :)
23:16:23	funman	FlynDice: i think even longer ;) Thanks again for helping on those major problems
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23:55:31	TheSeven	YEAH! Read works now, even with dcache
23:56:56	TheSeven	btw where is linuxstb hanging around again? haven't seen him for a week.
23:57:10	AlexP	He'll be around when not busy
23:57:10	*	Bagder adds committer #81
23:57:13	kugel	TheSeven: did the as3525 code help?
23:57:16	gevaerts	\☺/
23:57:20	kugel	\o/
23:57:31	TheSeven	kugel: didn't use the actual code, but the idea did the trick :-)
23:57:33	gevaerts	do we get real beer at #100?
23:57:48	Bagder	I hope so!
23:57:54	kugel	TheSeven: the idea is often the most critical part of an implementation :)
23:58:23	TheSeven	just or the memory address with 0x40000000, which is the address space limit, so it will wrap around on the memory bus, but not on the protection unit
23:58:48	TheSeven	that way we can just circumvent all the caches for these buffers :-D
23:58:59	gevaerts	similar to the PP trick

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