#rockbox 2009-10-23

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#rockbox log for 2009-10-23

00:01:56	saratoga	toffe82: what does that software actually do?
00:02:27	saratoga	or do I need something else before it works?
00:02:29		Quit pamaury ("exit((int )0 / 0);")
00:02:48	toffe82	just show you the register of a given cpu and tparameter, so you don't have to search in the datasheet
00:02:57		Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht2@xbmc/user/horscht)
00:02:57	CIA-85	New commit by bluebrother (r23317): Add simple progress indicator when building.
00:03:02		Quit ender` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:03:20	toffe82	it can be link with their ide dev sytem to do more I think
00:03:24	TheSeven	saratoga: I think that hint was intended for the mini2440 people
00:05:26		Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
00:05:26	saratoga	ah ok so their ide is required for it to work?
00:05:27		Quit HBK- (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
00:05:27	toffe82	and others ;)
00:05:27	toffe82	sratoga: no
00:05:27	toffe82	if you open it and looks for a specific register of a cpu, you can find it, with the parameter of this specific register
00:05:27	JdGordon\|	kugel: I'm having trouble parsing your last 2 statements
00:05:27		Join HBK- [0] (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com)
00:05:27	kugel	%we/%wd in the wps should work like it did before, since the sbs is just another statusbar for the rest of the code
00:05:57	JdGordon\|	does the wps get the UI viewport from the sbs if it is still running?
00:06:10	JdGordon\|	or do we leave it up to the themer to make sure they dont overlap?
00:06:20	kugel	no, the ui viewport doesn't run in the wps anyway
00:07:27	saratoga	toffe82: I open it and i get a bunch of error messages (on XP)
00:07:43	toffe82	I open it on xp and no problem
00:09:27	toffe82	saratoga: download it again
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00:26:10	JdGordon\|	bluebrother: yeah, i comepltly forgot about the smaller + mono screens who would use the old bar.... I'm hoping someone who does use it will do the .sbs and images it needs though :)
00:26:52	JdGordon\|	that bar is going though...
00:27:01	JdGordon\|	which is why I gave the warning :)
00:27:17	bluebrother	well, just provide a way to display it again :)
00:27:17		Quit DerPapst ("Leaving.")
00:27:44	*	bluebrother hands all those color-gui-people a monochrome target
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00:28:06	JdGordon\|	the way is the .sbs file
00:28:18		Quit GeekShadow ("The cake is a lie !")
00:28:40	*	bluebrother still likes the mini2g the best of all targets
00:28:50	bluebrother	s/the//
00:29:10	JdGordon\|	thats the target sitting right next to me at the moment :)
00:29:24	JdGordon\|	(and it does have the bar enabled :p )
00:31:46		Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:32:18	amiconn	JdGordon\|: The plain status bar needs to be embedded in the binary same way as the default minimal wps
00:33:35	amiconn	The reason is that the charging screen can not, and early usb must not access the disk
00:34:55	TheSeven	my nano just doesn't want to do a battery benchmark
00:35:03	TheSeven	yesterday it FTL-failed, not it stkov'ed
00:36:16	JdGordon\|	amiconn: yes I know... its going to be less flashy than the current one though... ( a bit les flashy anyway)
00:36:39	JdGordon\|	I wanted to ask if you still have plans for the status indicator thingy?
00:37:05	JdGordon\|	for the player and mrobe remotes
00:37:38	amiconn	Yes, and the M3 multicolour led, and the Elio multicolour led etc
00:37:41		Quit JackWinter (Remote closed the connection)
00:38:31	amiconn	The basic idea is to separate status reporting from status display
00:39:07	amiconn	The statusbar will then just one method to display the reported status, and it won't have to deal with charcell at all anymore
00:39:19	amiconn	The target specific status stuff will reside in firmware/
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00:41:57	kugel	JdGordon\|: told you :P I also like the classic statusbar on the clip
00:43:05	bertrik	heh, the clip hasn't reached stable/useable yet and its statusbar is already "classic" :P
00:44:41	JdGordon\|	amiconn: have you done anything about it yet? or plans to do it any time soon? :)
00:46:57	kugel	JdGordon\|: seems I need to know whether a token is used conditionally or not...at least that doesn't make the wps_token struct bigger, and it actually makes the %C handling more sane
00:47:37	JdGordon\|	what are you trying to do?
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00:48:12	kugel	making the parser fail if one trys to draw into the default vp in the sbs
00:48:22	kugel	instead of just not drawing as done currently
00:48:23	JdGordon\|	bugger that.... leave it up to the themer
00:48:41	kugel	why?
00:48:58	JdGordon\|	because its not dangerous or anything if they do... they'll just get the wrong outcome
00:49:06	JdGordon\|	is adding code which isnt needed
00:49:10	JdGordon\|	it complicates things
00:49:16	kugel	it doesn't
00:49:22	kugel	it's rather simple
00:49:48	JdGordon\|	its still not nessecary
00:50:30	kugel	I think it is necessary to actually tell why the skin doesn't work
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00:50:46	kugel	haven't you fixed wps_debug a bit recently for that very reason?
00:51:36	JdGordon\|	because users are stupid :)
00:51:47	JdGordon\|	not because they drew in the default vp
00:52:56	kugel	ok let me put it this way, I'm not keen on 2 users per week that complain about a non-working sbs where even we can't figure the exact cuase
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00:53:46	amiconn	JdGordon\|: I didn't do anything apart from thinking about it so far
00:53:58	amiconn	I am planning to do this, but I can't tell an eta
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00:54:35	JdGordon\|	kugel: where has that happened?
00:54:48	kugel	it's going to happen
00:55:03	JdGordon\|	I doubt it
00:55:29	JdGordon\|	you cant draw in the default vp in the wps either if viewports are used, and they have to be used in the sbs
00:55:50	JdGordon\|	amiconn: ok... maybe breaking the player status indicators is a good way to hurry things along? :D </sarcasm>
00:56:32	kugel	JdGordon\|: you can !?
00:56:38	kugel	I've been doing it for ages
00:57:37	JdGordon\|	show me...
00:58:06	JdGordon\|	or.. what are you drawing?
00:58:06	kugel	the code has no visible exception for the default vp
00:58:06	JdGordon\|	yes it does
00:58:06	JdGordon\|	or it did last time i looked
00:58:21	kugel	drawing = text, images, albumart, pb, etc
00:59:34	JdGordon\|	anyway... right now the sbs will pass the parse right? it might/will cause redraw issues that are obvious.... you want to change it so it fails, with (currently) no explanation as to why... leaving it as is is much better
01:00
01:00:07	kugel	it doesn't cause redraw issues
01:00:51	kugel	the stuff just isn't drawn because hidden viewports are handled in the drawing level. viewports that are always hidden can be handled in the parser already. that also applies to the %Vi one btw
01:02:19	JdGordon\|	well.. I dont nessecarily agree that marking the default VP as always hidden was a good idea...
01:02:43	JdGordon\|	its still an obvious reason why things dont get displayed if its a condition of the sbs.. whicih it is
01:03:00	JdGordon\|	thats even mentioned in CustomWPS isnt it?
01:03:01	kugel	it must be
01:03:09	kugel	clearing it messes the whole ui up
01:03:30	JdGordon\|	so good... leave it how it is
01:03:33	kugel	no
01:03:48	JdGordon\|	whats the actual problem?
01:04:22	kugel	the parser allows code that's clearly invalid
01:04:24	JdGordon\|	I guarentee users who complain about missing bits of their sbs will be the same ones that complain it just doesnt load without looking at the debug output
01:06:07	kugel	yes sure....
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01:07:07	JdGordon\|	so whats the problem?
01:08:26	kugel	the parser allows code that's clearly invalid
01:09:07	JdGordon\|	its not invalid
01:09:38	JdGordon\|	its incorrect, but not invalid
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01:30:06	kugel	hm, something is fishy
01:30:39	kugel	due to my checks, I see that the default vp counts as %Vi :/
01:34:16	kugel	hm, no
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01:35:04	JdGordon\|	bah.. you damn wierdo... dont bother with this :p
01:35:17	JdGordon\|	fix the wps in my remove statusbar patch!
01:36:14	kugel	haha, it made me spot another problem
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01:40:30	kugel	the patch is dead simple
01:40:59	JdGordon\|	that worries me :p
01:40:59	kugel	and allows to get rid of two other rather nasty tricks
01:41:03	JdGordon\|	those nasty tricks are essential to the wellbeing of the world!!
01:44:14	kugel	JdGordon\|: please look at it when you're back from work: http://pastie.org/666022 half of the patch is a semi-related change that's going in anyway
01:45:34	JdGordon\|	20min or so
01:45:51	JdGordon\|	I assume it adds a "isconditional" or something to the token?
01:47:31	kugel	yea
01:47:50	kugel	but it's free w.r.t to the struct size
01:48:08	JdGordon\|	yeah, its fine.. go ahead... i had thought about adding that when the %C nonesense came up
01:48:35	*	JdGordon\| couldnt give a shit about struct sizes.... really....
01:48:48	kugel	since when?
01:49:12	kugel	isn't that complicated skin buffer thing due to saving struct size?
01:50:30	JdGordon\|	yes, but saving 2 or 4 bytes is not something i care about... save 10KB is interesting
01:50:57	kugel	you wanted to save the 4byte per token which IIRC
01:51:01	JdGordon\|	i.e the commit you did last week(?) to rearrange the members was imo pointless
01:51:24	kugel	s/which//
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02:16:36	JdGordon1	bah
02:18:35	JdGordon1	kugel: the #define is terrible.... make it a inline function instead....
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02:41:51	funman	nice progress on recording for Sansa AMS on fs#10371 : i'll get some time soon to dig in the work freddyb made
02:42:44	funman	i think we managed to get the hardware bits (just need to clean this up), and integration in rockbox recording API is buggy (you may say normal since i wrote it ..)
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03:01:02	CIA-85	New commit by blue_dude (r23318): Consolidate almost identical code in pcmbuf.c
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04:46:13	ED_209	can someone report two bugs for me
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04:47:05	ED_209	on the h300 the metronome no longer works, you need to turn the unit off entirely because it jams when you run it (but the metronome did function on earlier versions)
04:47:43	ED_209	the savegames on the game "superdom" don't do anything (you can't load them)
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07:19:43	*	JdGordon has statusbar working how he wants... but completly broken wps!
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07:33:56	JdGordon	anyone around? do wps's that dont use viewports still work?
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08:06:09	*	JdGordon almost has the statusbar+wps working together how i want them :)
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09:16:02	JdGordon	shouldnt "no code in #defines" be in docs/CONTRIBUTING?
09:16:54	JdGordon	http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/gui/viewport.c?annotate=23258 line 34 :<
09:20:11	Zagor	JdGordon: I'll add a note about it
09:20:36	JdGordon	assuming im not the only one that finds it bad form and annoying?
09:20:50	Zagor	no you're not
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09:26:50	CIA-85	New commit by zagor (r23319): "No code in .h files or #defines"
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09:41:35	linuxstb	Zagor: What's "no code in #defines" meant to mean? No macros at all?
09:41:48	Zagor	genereally, no
09:42:07	Zagor	but there are of course always exceptions
09:42:32	Zagor	the settings macro is evil, for example. but the alternative non-macro code is ghastly too.
09:43:07	linuxstb	I'm thinking more of single-line functions, such as LCD_RGBPACK, or the byte-swapping things.
09:43:23	linuxstb	The rule seems pretty explicit that that's not allowed now...
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09:44:56	Zagor	anything is allowed, if it is the best alternative. imho the point of these rules is rather to say "this should not be your first option" than "we will never accept code that breaks these rules"
09:46:10	*	Unhelpful notes that "no code in .h files" is broken all the time where inline functions are involved ;)
09:48:20	*	linuxstb simply isn't convinced we need a rule to say that the code example JdGordon said is bad style
09:50:53	Zagor	maybe not. but taken generically it is a "value" of the project and I don't think it hurts to put it in writing
09:51:19	linuxstb	That's already there with "Don't redefine the language."
09:52:25	Zagor	not really. that part is rather aimed at the people who like to redefine keywords and basic language constructs
09:52:46	Zagor	but sure, it can be interpreted to mean both
09:54:02	linuxstb	I just think there are too many exceptions to those new rules for them to be useful. But anyway, time for work...
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10:19:32	funman	shouldn't it be "no multi lines macros" ?
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10:22:20	linuxstb	LCD_RGBPACK is multi-line...
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10:30:16	Zagor	I don't think it's possibe to quantize exactly what we consider to be acceptable use of macros without writing an essay
10:35:29	pamaury	gevaerts: ping
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11:58:12	Bob_C	On a strict interpretation, that means not using any defines, because even a literal value is a language token
11:58:50	gevaerts	Bob_C: that's good, because it implies that it's a rule you have to think about instead of following it blindly :)
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12:02:27	Bob_C	Surely fr a rule, that's bad, because everyone has a different interpretation?
12:03:08	Bob_C	My view on coding standards is that they should be able to be enforced by a software tool, which does follow rules blindly
12:06:48	Bob_C	To be honest, I can't even guess what "code" means in this context. Preferably, terms defined in the C standard would be more useful to me.
12:06:56	gevaerts	my view on coding standards is that if they are enforced by a software tool they usually are stupid
12:08:02	Bob_C	My other view on coding standards is that most of the rules people put in are stupid. ie. they are cosmetic and do nothing to avoid bugs
12:08:40	gevaerts	have you read docs/CONTRIBUTING?
12:09:06	Bob_C	Of course ;)
12:09:28	gevaerts	then you know that we don't see coding style as something rigid :)
12:10:20	Bob_C	Huh? I must be reading a different doc!
12:11:14	Bob_C	Most of the rules are arbitrary and quite rigid. "No new types"
12:12:04	*	linuxstb simply thinks that that new rule is too ambiguous (and too widely broken in existing code) to add anything useful
12:12:51	Bob_C	But provided rules are clear, I am happy to comply with them whatever I personally think.
12:13:11	gevaerts	Bob_C:I was more thinking about things like "When changing code, follow the code style of the file you are editing"
12:16:24	linuxstb	gevaerts: Yes, that's a simple and clear rule...
12:17:03	Bob_C	That is quite a reasonable rule I think
12:19:50	Bob_C	I think I have broken the rule already. See firmware/export/s3c2440.h "DMA_SRC_MAP_xxx". I felt guilty writing that
12:38:22	CIA-85	New commit by mcuelenaere (r23320): Lua: add do_menu() wrapper. Also fix potential NULL pointer dereference
12:49:57	CIA-85	New commit by mcuelenaere (r23321): Lua: add parts of the math library (all floating point functions are #ifdef'ed out) ...
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13:04:22	kugel	Bob_C: hey!
13:05:17	Bob_C	Did I miss anything?
13:05:45	kugel	i just turned my mini2440 on
13:06:51	funman	is it possible to download the 'current build' for a past revision ? (to bissect bugs apparition)
13:07:45	Bob_C	kugel: it should boot into Qtopia
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13:08:27	kugel	Bob_C: yes it did, my question is whether I can keep qtopia parallel to rockbox
13:10:16	Bob_C	kuhe: yes, Qtopia is entirely contained in NAND, and we don't use NAND for anything. We do overwrite supervivi, which you might need to update the NAND installation
13:11:09	kugel	ah ok
13:11:25	Bob_C	But if you can flash the rockbox bootloader, then you can always re-flash supervivi from the CD. You did get a CD?
13:11:35	kugel	a dvd yep
13:12:59	linuxstb	funman: Only daily builds are kept - http://download.rockbox.org/daily/
13:14:17	Bob_C	A vital step omitted in the Wiki page is to set the boot switch to NOR or NAND as appropriate, but you probably spotted that already
13:15:41	funman	oh for 3 days only
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13:18:30	kugel	hrm, konqueror crashes when opening rockbox.org :p
13:20:38	kugel	Bob_C: I do need windows for using the tools on the dvd right?
13:21:55	kugel	funman: they were kept a month a while back,don't know why they're gone recently
13:23:03	linuxstb	Yes, they were often kept for more than a month (depending on the download mirror)...
13:23:55	Bob_C	kugel: I think so yes. For Linux we are using OpenOCD. There are probably other tools that might work
13:26:44	funman	linuxstb: if the download mirrors are rsynced, wouldn't they have the exact same content ?
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13:29:26	linuxstb	funman: I think some mirrors didn't delete old files...
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13:36:23	kugel	Bob_C: do you have a bootloader handy or do I need to build one?
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13:38:12	Bob_C	our bootloader is in svn, so it should be easy to build
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13:51:56	kugel	Bob_C: except on windows :)
13:53:46	Bob_C	I can upload a bin file, just not sure where to put it
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14:09:30	Bob_C	kugel: i have uploaded here http://rockboxplayer.googlecode.com/files/bootloader.bin
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15:21:59	tomers	gevaerts: ping
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15:29:22	CIA-85	New commit by tomers (r23322): FS #10704 - Make a configuration option to disable USB HID
15:29:27	gevaerts	tomers: pong
15:29:54	tomers	gevaers: Just committed... :-) wanted to ask you if you have any other objections
15:30:35	tomers	gevaerts: I read all your remarks on the 22th (just the day after) and took them into account
15:32:06	gevaerts	tomers: I think the first usb_core_enable_driver(USB_DRIVER_HID,true) should stay. The way it is now, you have no interface at all if people disable HID and connect in charge-only mode
15:34:01	gevaerts	apart from that I think it should be fine
15:34:51	gevaerts	except that the patch seems to change more than the commit message suggests :)
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15:38:37	tomers	gevaerts: http://pastie.org/666619
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15:39:26	tomers	gevaerts: I should put more effort in describing my commits indeed :-)
15:41:02	webguest37	what is prefered the gigabeat F or X ?
15:41:32	gevaerts	tomers: no, the point is that we use HID as charging-only interface whenever possible. The dummy charging-only driver isn't compiled in on targets that have HID.
15:42:07	gevaerts	tomers: So just enable HID unconditionally then. You don't go to the USB screen anyway, so it doesn't send any events, which means that from a user point of view, i's not enabled
15:42:30	gevaerts	webguest37: personally I'd prefer the X, but those are horribly hard to find
15:43:02	gevaerts	tomers: so I'd recommend just reverting that single line
15:43:16	tomers	gevaerts: ok
15:44:02	webguest37	gevaerts: what about the S, or is that to unstable to use?
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15:44:47	pyro_maniac	tomers: don't forget to close FS #10704
15:45:42	tomers	pyro_maniac: This is exactly what I just did :-)
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15:45:53	gevaerts	webguest37: opinions differ. Once you get it running, it's usually stable. For some people the in-flash bootloader tends to suddenly format its data partition every now and then (but certainly not for everyone). It has a radio, which the F doesn't have, but the battery time is also a lot less
15:47:10	gevaerts	Some people really like it, but while I personally prefer the S case, I prefer the battery time and general lack of issues with the F (which is why I want an X, which is basically an F in an S case)
15:47:11	webguest37	gevaerts: ok, thanks, I think I will probaly go witht the F or X, for the better battery life, and that radio isnt important to me
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15:52:23	CIA-85	New commit by tomers (r23323): Revert disabling of USB HID while in charging mode (introduced by r23322), in ...
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15:54:21	tomers	gevaerts: So this issue is really closed, right?
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19:09:37	JdGordon	kugel: that code you pastebined yesterday has that horrible RETURN_IF_SOMETHING_OR_OTHER #define... if you really must do that use a static inline function... doing that is really bad form...
19:09:47	kugel	I saw that
19:10:11	kugel	inline doesn't allow me to put the return into the thing
19:10:57	JdGordon	so its 2 lines instead of one...
19:11:05	kugel	I was surprised that this was added to CONTRIBUTING so quickly, without discussion, particularly because the existing code base violates that a million times
19:11:41	JdGordon	that sort of thing shouldnt have ever got into the code
19:12:26	pixelma	tomers: so I should test with a current build on OSX.4 ?
19:13:26	gevaerts	pixelma: I think so, yes. Of course with that setting set properly
19:13:32	JdGordon	also... the other thing I noticed around the code is where you split an if(some long condition) line so its not longer than 80 chars, and there is only one statement after there is no {}
19:13:35	JdGordon	's
19:13:41	JdGordon	which makes it hard to follow
19:14:13	pixelma	gevaerts: ok, if I want to try now, I think that'll give RBUtil a try too
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19:21:35		Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection)
19:22:29	*	TheSeven thinks he has spotted a pcmbuf bug
19:22:35		Join itcheg [0] (i=4117734b@gateway/web/freenode/x-njmzuslhzbiyynxx)
19:22:36	TheSeven	(or at least some illogical naming)
19:24:12		Join xDonny [0] (n=donnyb4e@bas3-kingston08-1178012042.dsl.bell.ca)
19:24:28	xDonny	is there any work on a GBA emulator for rockbox?
19:25:32	tomers	pixelma: You can test of course! I tested it on WInXP and HID doesn't enumerates, so I believe it'll work on MAC OS, but confirming it would be appreciated, of course :-) (I closed the FS, without verifying first)
19:27:11		Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
19:27:11	TheSeven	what the heck is pcmbuf_unplayed_bytes good for? it seems to rather count the bytes not yet passed to the PCM...
19:27:27		Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
19:27:39	gevaerts	xDonny: the vast majority of rockbox targets is much too slow for that, and I have serious doubts if any of them are actually near fast enough
19:28:02	n1s	TheSeven: maybe to know how much pacm you have left before you underrrun?, just a guess
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19:28:09	xDonny	gevaerts: Alright thanks for the info, and is it the same for a NES emulator?
19:28:19	*	TheSeven also has doubt if any kind of emulation for that second (touchscreen) lcd can be usable
19:28:23	*	gevaerts doesn't know
19:28:54	TheSeven	n1s: it seems to be rather used as a value how many bytes are currently allocated, and this is clearly wrong as it may overwrite the data currently playing if it's fast enough
19:29:03	n1s	xDonny: there's a half finished patch for a nes emulator but it seems abandoned
19:29:18	xDonny	n1s: Where can I find this?
19:30:38	n1s	xDonny: in the patch tracker, be warned though, it will likely not compile with current svn and even if it does i don't know how well it works
19:31:15	xDonny	n1s: alright, thanks for the info.
19:31:19	*	TheSeven is spotting very very weird things in the pcmbuf
19:31:51	*	xDonny is playing harry potter on his ipod and thinks it sucks
19:34:42	AlexP	xDonny: That may be, but is not on topic in here
19:35:39	xDonny	i apologize
19:36:06	AlexP	no worries :)
19:37:15	xDonny	n1s: I cannot find the patch you were referring to
19:38:46	n1s	xDonny: if you search for, say "nes" it's the second hit...
19:40:00	xDonny	n1s: I see it now, I just couldn't find where to download it.
19:40:04	xDonny	thank you
19:41:58	xDonny	For the developers here that use windows to compile, how do you go about it?
19:42:23	AlexP	You use either a linux VM or cygwin
19:42:30	AlexP	See the wiki
19:42:36	AlexP	e.g. SimpleGuideToCompiling
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19:43:08		Join liar [0] (n=liar@83.175.83.185)
19:43:25	xDonny	i'll use a linux VM, I just got vmware workstation
19:44:15	AlexP	There is a ready made one for download
19:44:27	AlexP	I think there is a thread in the Compiling forum
19:44:52	xDonny	okay
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19:46:11	xDonny	"Testing new VMware Image"?
19:46:23	n1s	setting up a dev environment in a (sane) linux install is rahter easy though so if you have one (in vm) you can just follow the instructions for real linux
19:46:52		Quit tomers (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
19:47:26	xDonny	okay
19:47:26	xDonny	in 30 minutes i'll do that
19:47:42	xDonny	does it have all the packages needed to compile?
19:47:44	xDonny	and svn?
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19:55:23	*	TheSeven grumbles at the rockbox audio architecture
19:59:02	bertrik	TheSeven, sorry to hear that
19:59:03	xDonny	if i use this VM to compile rockbox, how can i put iNES in there?
19:59:42	TheSeven	bertrik: the pcm layer blocks us from using the hack blue_dude suggested
19:59:57	TheSeven	(and this only works for the pcmbuf anyway, not for plugin-generated audio)
20:00
20:00:26	evilnick_	xDonny: Patch the source files, then compile
20:01:09	bertrik	I missed what the hack is, can you describe it in a few words?
20:01:21	xDonny	yes but iNES is a folder that you download, can you download things onto this VM?
20:01:42		Join dfkt [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
20:02:29	TheSeven	bertrik: splitting the pcmbuf_callback into multiple parts, one fast one that gets the next buffer, and another one to clean up the rest later, after we fed that to the DMA
20:04:38	evilnick_	xDonny: It's an entire OS virtualised, so while you're using it of course you can download to it, or you can transfer it from the host environment using samba
20:06:54		Join NoGare [0] (i=NoGare@216.8.173.82)
20:07:20	TheSeven	the only way i see that's left is a copying-around hack that involves another additional audio buffer
20:07:38	TheSeven	and it would still be nice if we could make auto-reloading DMA transfers work then
20:10:35	kugel	arg, this stupid grid mode just tricked me
20:10:58	kugel	really, a guy (me in this case) buying a touchscreen device does not expect this behavoior
20:11:47	evilnick_	kugel: You're not blind though
20:11:57	bertrik	TheSeven, the datasheet I have talks about a "sub-channel mode" and has an 16-bit OFFSET field for "Offset value. This field is used to calculating next memory access
20:11:57	bertrik	address in sub-channel mode.
20:11:57	bertrik	"
20:12:30	TheSeven	...whatever this subchannel mode is
20:12:39	bertrik	this suggests that there's somehow a possibility to chain DMA transfers to me, but the datasheet doesn't tell what subchannel mode is
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20:13:15	TheSeven	this rather sounds like interleaving multiple things to me
20:13:20	bertrik	I could try again on the meizu m3 to see if I get looping DMA working
20:13:54	kugel	evilnick: !?
20:15:44	evilnick_	kugel: Just pointing out that grid mode (while it may not be useful for you) is (perhaps) more useful to someone lacking sight - harking back to the dev-ml
20:19:12	bertrik	TheSeven, we could have a look at some datasheets from other samsung devices
20:21:04		Quit phanboy4 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:21:58	kugel	evilnick: yea, grid is probably useful for none of the zero blnd people that buy a touchscreen device
20:23:47	Llorean	evilnick_: Grid mode's also very helpful for the sighted user who doesn't want to constantly have to deal with small items to select on the touchscreen (it's easier to use fingers with in some cases) or doesn't want to constantly have to look at the screen for basic operations like "next/prev track"
20:24:54	pixelma	I guess blind people might be interested in the D2, especially the version with DAB is quite unique (well plus the Logik Dax)
20:25:02	kugel	I think we should toggle absolute and grid mode with the hold switch :D
20:26:35	evilnick_	Llorean: True, there is at least one app (for the iPhone) that allows you to operate the music controls with "swipe" actions, for the usage case of having the player in your pocket.
20:27:42	Llorean	evilnick_: Which is more or less exactly what grid mode is useful for. The whole "no tactile feedback" thing is more or less bunk since the virtual buttons extend to the edge of the screen, and the device is nearly all screen. It's pretty easy to get used to pressing the right spots, then it's about as easy to use as a Gigabeat F is blindly (in my personal experience doing so, at least)
20:27:51	bertrik	swipe to seek or to change volume, something like that?
20:27:55	Llorean	I do admit the grid mode absolutely is counterintuitive for a touchscreen device, though.
20:29:56	*	TheSeven just found a couple of songs that make rockbox panic on an undefined instruction at 0x08154bf0, which, according to rockbox.map, belongs to global_settings
20:31:16	bertrik	it would be nice if new ports could help solve old bugs :)
20:31:48	TheSeven	it's a whole album that's showing that...
20:32:09	TheSeven	(which may be related to buffering trying to read something completely different, maybe album art?)
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20:34:30	*	TheSeven thinks he has found the ultimate hack for the pcmbug
20:35:19	TheSeven	i somehow feel like dividing the DMA transfers into even smaller parts on the driver level...
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20:41:05	TheSeven	any audio guru around?
20:41:34	TheSeven	could it be possible that a non-last packet of less than 1KB would ever be passed down to PCM?
20:41:54		Part Anodl
20:42:12	amiconn	Ahem, global_Settings is data
20:42:38	linuxstb	TheSeven: Yes, I think so.
20:43:20	TheSeven	linuxstb: grr. I think I'll just ignore that and not prevent a clicking in that case. In fact I can't really do something about that.
20:43:21	linuxstb	TheSeven: But I only really know what audio codecs do, not what happens after then. An audio codec can send anything to the DSP layer (which then passes it to the PCM buffer, then to DMA...)
20:44:34		Quit HellDragon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:44:45		Join HellDragon [0] (i=jd@modemcable178.248-201-24.mc.videotron.ca)
20:45:48	bertrik	If we could get looping DMA to work, I think the clicking problem could be solved, although with a wasteful copy step from PCM buffer to DMA buffer
20:46:15	bertrik	If you can't chain or loop DMA, I think you can't really solve the clicking
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20:49:04	TheSeven	bertrik: I can get latencies low enough to remove the clicking, but not if i need to call a bloaty PCM api before setting it up again
20:50:21		Quit Strife89 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:50:21	TheSeven	looping dma doesn't help always either, as the block sizes you get from the pcm layer are sometimes really odd, with makes that whole stuff a little hard
20:51:05	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:51:22	pixelma	tomers (logs), gevaerts: I can access the c200 and the microSD on MacOS 10.4 (installing a current build with the Rockbox Utility also went flawless)
20:51:55		Quit Zarggg ()
20:52:39	TheSeven	bertrik: I can think of some hack that doesn't even involve copying, if I get the timing right
20:53:08	gevaerts	pixelma: nice! So all we need to do know is remember this if people have problems
20:53:31	TheSeven	5ms should be long enough to never click but short enough so that the codec doesn't have a chance to kill the buffer too soon
20:57:23		Nick Strife1989 is now known as Strife89 (n=michael@adsl-81-160-168.mcn.bellsouth.net)
20:57:51	xDonny	i get the error arm-elf-gcc: command not found although i downloaded and installed it, also i put itin the bashrc so i don't know whats happening
20:59:17	rasher	xDonny: did you re-run bashrc? (or just login again)
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20:59:28	xDonny	i'll restart lol
21:00
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21:00:12	xDonny	how do i go about restarting...
21:00:16	xDonny	i hit exit and it took me back into the login
21:00:43		Quit dfkt (Nick collision from services.)
21:00:47		Nick dfkt_ is now known as dfkt (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
21:03:41	saratoga	reopening the command line window should be enough
21:03:51		Quit stoffel (Remote closed the connection)
21:07:04		Quit itcheg (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
21:07:12	xDonny	error: lang.h: no such file or directory
21:09:41	linuxstb	xDonny: That's the only error?
21:09:44		Join dfkt_ [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
21:13:16		Quit dfkt (Nick collision from services.)
21:13:29	xDonny	yes
21:13:31		Nick dfkt_ is now known as dfkt (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
21:14:29	TheSeven	xDonny: can you pastebin the whole output including your command line?
21:17:19	n1s	xDonny: did you install all the other required apps, like perl?
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21:25:12	gitster	How much do rockbox developers care about downward compatibility of file formats?
21:26:47	gitster	I am interested in recording and restoring the playback speed and pitch across system reboot. If I were listening to an audiobook at 120% of normal speed before I shutdown, I can restart playing at the same speed when I turn the unit back on next time that way and continue listening to the book at the faster speed.
21:27:03	gitster	I am also interested in adding these new information to bookmarks, so that I can flip between an audiobook bookmark that plays faster (because I was playing it faster when I made the bookmark) and a music bookmark that plays normally (because I was playing it at the normal speed).
21:27:03	gitster
21:27:10	gitster	When naively implemented, this would change the format of system resume data and bookmark files in such a way that an older version of rockbox would not be able to read, and I'd like to know what the generally accepted approach is among the rockbox developers to handle a situation like this.
21:29:43	gevaerts	hm, I like those ideas, but on the other hand I also care about my bookmarks :)
21:29:57	linuxstb	gitster: I don't think anyone can say what the generally accept approach is, but I can't see a problem as long as old bookmarks are still readable. I think it's reasonable to expect users to not downgrade.
21:32:32	Llorean	I agree with linuxstb.
21:34:42	gevaerts	For the playback control file I'm not sure. Do we need to keep that working on upgrades?
21:36:50	gitster	upgrades is easy; the new code checks if the file is older and pretend the new values are recorded as their "normal" settings. I am talking about downgrades.
21:36:56	Llorean	I think it's okay to break it occasionally, but if it's going to be broken we should try to plan some way to make sure similar changes won't break it going forward in the future.
21:37:42	gevaerts	I don't think it's worth the effort trying to support downgrades
21:37:44	gitster	The old code won't know that you added new fields, so if downward compatibility is an issue, you would need to find a hole in the old code's parser to sneak new information in such a way that the old parser will ignore it.
21:39:06	TheSeven	gitster: what Llorean meant was that we should change that in a way that the new parser ignores certain unknown things so that we can slip those things in easier in the future
21:39:51	gitster	Yes, I know (our messages crossed). That's "you prepare a hole so that in the future you do not have to looko for it".
21:40:09	TheSeven	yep
21:40:32	gitster	For example, your read_line() will read up to CRLF but does not stop at seeing NUL, and the current code in bookmark.c does not go beyond NUL on the line.
21:41:11	gitster	So in theory, a line with the new fields could be like "know fields NUL new fields CRLF", and older rockbox won't know the difference.
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21:43:42	gevaerts	I think we need to favour clarity over downgrade support here
21:44:52	JdGordon\|	downagrade support is not something we need to worry about
21:45:01	*	n1s agrees with that
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21:57:11		Quit hueafk ()
21:58:03	saratoga	i think suggesting that people not carry their settings over when downgrading is a good idea
21:59:46	JdGordon\|	suggesting peopel ever go back to an older version isnt a good idea... except for very rare circumstances...
22:00
22:07:04		Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
22:14:34	TheSeven	these damn codecs are just too fast
22:14:45	gevaerts	try ape
22:21:05	n1s	or HE-AAC
22:21:12	JdGordon\|	kugel: are you worried about the panicf() or the stack implementation or what? not having to worry about the current statusbar state is much simpler than whats in svn
22:23:43	kugel	both ;)
22:24:24	kugel	I mainly want it to be a separate patch
22:24:48	kugel	it has actually nothing to do with convertig the classic statusbar
22:25:49	JdGordon\|	well yes and no
22:26:16	JdGordon\|	I'm 90% there so im probably not going to split it up
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22:26:41	kugel	ok, so ignore me
22:27:04		Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
22:27:06	JdGordon\|	if you have concerns other than splitting it im all ears
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22:27:27	kugel	i do think that panicf is broken
22:27:41	JdGordon\|	I'm still a bit WTF by the skin_parser change
22:27:53	JdGordon\|	broken?
22:28:49	kugel	and as I don't think that your stuff is simpler at all, I'm against that change
22:29:04	kugel	it's not even saving function calls
22:29:38	JdGordon\|	one bit at a time... how is panicf broken?
22:31:09	kugel	panicf itself isn't broken, but code that relies on panicf just to replace a working and dead simple solution is broken IMO
22:32:06	kugel	and remember that do_menu() is still going to need to know about the current state in order for hide_bars to be useful
22:32:09	JdGordon\|	that is only there so if it ever happens (and it shouldnt) you get a message instead of a data abort
22:32:29	JdGordon\|	hide_bars was another bad band-aid
22:33:18	kugel	so tell me what's the advantage of what you're doing?
22:33:23	kugel	I can't see one
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22:35:02	JdGordon\|	if a screen wants to force the bar on/off it doesnt need to remember what its previous state was, it doesnt need to know that crazy bit-or'ed value, and its a simpler API...
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22:44:34	kugel	JdGordon\|: these are very minor, while I find the shaky panicf rather major, but you're going to ignore me anyway
22:44:40		Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection)
22:45:54	*	TheSeven has mostly click-free sound now
22:45:59	TheSeven	bertrik: yay!
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22:51:09	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:53:39	TheSeven	bertrik: the DMA sometimes seems to enter self-refresh mode all by itself
22:53:57	TheSeven	sometimes accompanied by a panic
22:56:46		Quit bluebrother (Nick collision from services.)
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22:59:55	TheSeven	some occasional clicks left during boosting...
23:00
23:00:30		Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
23:01:52		Quit xDonny (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:02:49		Quit NoGare (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
23:06:21	*	TheSeven wonders why his wps was just trashed
23:12:05		Quit StealthyXIIGer (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:13:29		Join lifeless__ [0] (n=lifeless@94.51.253.19)
23:15:48	TheSeven	I can't get rid of occasional clicks :-/
23:29:03		Quit lifeless_ (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
23:32:11		Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
23:34:50		Quit evilnick_ ("Page closed")
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23:39:11	bertrik	TheSeven, nice
23:39:22	*	bertrik is getting some more colors on his meizu m6 sp
23:39:41	TheSeven	bertrik: something's screwing with PLL0PMS, even though I can't find any code touching it :-/
23:39:42	bertrik	somehow it still seems to hang when enabling the LCD data pins
23:40:00	TheSeven	bertrik: IRQs disabled?
23:40:26	bertrik	yes, I think so, I'm no CPSR expert though, I'm writing it with 0xD3 now to disable interrupts
23:40:38	TheSeven	should work
23:40:55		Quit esperegu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:41:26	bertrik	the LCD controller is a DMA master, maybe it's accessing invalid memory or something, could that cause an exception?
23:41:51	TheSeven	hm, shouldn't block the CPU at least
23:42:04	TheSeven	maybe it's just flooding the system bus?
23:42:08	TheSeven	how is the clocking?
23:42:11	bertrik	could also be
23:42:51	bertrik	I did get at some point a bit of flashing on the LCD that could be controlled by setting a clock divider. I set it quite low now, same as the OF
23:44:10	TheSeven	you're clocking with those insane PLL factors off a 32kHz clock?
23:46:38	TheSeven	what's the SDRAM port speed set at? or do you have an IRAM framebuffer?
23:47:57		Quit n1s ("L�mnar")
23:50:32	bertrik	it's supposed to be IRAM in my test program
23:55:11		Quit ender` (" In every computer error, there are at least two human errors, including the error of blaming it on the computer.")

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