| 00:03:11 | | Quit cas ("enjoying heekscnc software for CAD-CAM on his new CNC machine ;-)") |
| 00:05:05 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23388): Add support to buildzip.pl for Lua scripts |
| 00:05:14 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23389): Add Boomshine to the games category |
| 00:05:29 | | Quit mikroflops (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:06:26 | | Quit bertrik ("De groeten") |
| 00:11:34 | | Quit bmbl ("Bye!") |
| 00:15:59 | robin0800 | any one seen this and know what they want? http://wiki.songbirdnest.com/Docs/Device_Support/Rock_Box |
| 00:17:00 | | Join tanti [0] (n=me@128.238.247.156) |
| 00:17:49 | | Quit saLOUt (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:21:15 | kugel | JdGordon|: and "the area not being used by the sbs. " is %Vi |
| 00:21:56 | JdGordon| | no |
| 00:22:07 | JdGordon| | the area not being used is.... the area not being used |
| 00:22:15 | JdGordon| | its not being drawn into by the sbs |
| 00:22:26 | JdGordon| | but the sbs doesnt need to explicitly say "im not using this area" |
| 00:23:00 | JdGordon| | which really does make it complelty seperate from both the UI area idea, and themes in general |
| 00:23:23 | kugel | yea, I've come across that idea too, and to the conclusion that it's next to impossible (and complex) for the sbs to predict a useful unused area |
| 00:23:49 | kugel | in a single viewport |
| 00:24:05 | JdGordon| | hang on... wha? |
| 00:24:19 | stripwax | for list viewer with a background bmp, do we print 'filled' pixels in foreground and 'blank' pixels in background; or do we blt the whole bitmap and then only print 'filled' pixels in foreground? |
| 00:24:36 | stripwax | ^ unrelated to above viewport discussion (sorry) |
| 00:24:45 | JdGordon| | stripwax: 1) shoosh!, 2) yes :) |
| 00:25:29 | stripwax | Looks like we explicitly print the blank pixels using the background bmp pixels .. which surely is less efficient than a giant memcpy followed by printing just what we need. |
| 00:25:33 | stripwax | JdGordon : - :) |
| 00:25:35 | JdGordon| | kugel: what predicting? the themer knows where the sbs doesnt draw in... in general its a rectangle in the center of the display... so that goes in the setting |
| 00:25:36 | kugel | the backdrop is in a separate buffer. depending on the drawmode some loops decide which value to take (fg, bg or backdrop) or even mix |
| 00:25:50 | | Quit tanti ("[TalkSoup] Get it today: http://talksoup.aeruder.net") |
| 00:26:16 | kugel | JdGordon|: oh I thought you would suggest generating %Vi at runtime |
| 00:26:28 | JdGordon| | nooooooooo!!!! |
| 00:26:37 | kugel | good |
| 00:26:37 | stripwax | kugel - right, and it seems that the listviewer chooses to print text using 'filled=fg, blank=backgrop' rather than 'filled=fg, blank=don't even do anything' |
| 00:26:40 | JdGordon| | it would be gone! kaput! dead! removed! extinct! |
| 00:26:47 | JdGordon| | GOOWWWWWN |
| 00:26:58 | scorche | this %Vi would be no more! |
| 00:27:05 | scorche | ceased to be? |
| 00:27:26 | kugel | it surely doesn't belong in the settings |
| 00:27:44 | JdGordon| | "ui viewport" does exactly that! |
| 00:27:49 | | Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@adsl-220-119-35.mcn.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:28:39 | kugel | back at the beginning :/ |
| 00:28:49 | JdGordon| | looks like it :< |
| 00:28:51 | | Nick uflops is now known as mikroflops (n=yogurt@90-231-195-226-no112.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 00:29:27 | kugel | can you explain how it makes sense to have a arbitary value that's only dependant on the skin in the user settings? |
| 00:29:34 | kugel | sbs even |
| 00:29:51 | JdGordon| | I have in the ml.. 15 or 16 times! |
| 00:29:55 | JdGordon| | but sure... once more |
| 00:30:08 | JdGordon| | the sbs knows where it wants to draw in... |
| 00:30:18 | JdGordon| | the lists will happily draw where they are told |
| 00:30:30 | JdGordon| | the themer knows where it wants the list, and where the sbs doesnt draw |
| 00:30:47 | JdGordon| | therefore, put the list viewport in the theme and then the sbs is compeltly detahced from it |
| 00:31:21 | JdGordon| | now if you come along and like my sbs, but want a *smaller* ui area, you only need to change the theme |
| 00:31:40 | kugel | so, tying sbs to a single theme + abusing a completely inrelated feature + disrespect a user setting |
| 00:31:44 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23390): Add support for running Lua games/apps from the Plugins menu |
| 00:31:47 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23391): Remove unused #define and correct comment. |
| 00:32:12 | JdGordon| | did you not read? the sbs is completly detached from any theme |
| 00:32:15 | kugel | JdGordon|: that's how it works currently. just edit the theme |
| 00:32:30 | JdGordon| | I disagree that sbs + ui area are complelty seperate features |
| 00:32:40 | JdGordon| | and disrespect the user setting? i dont follow |
| 00:33:31 | kugel | How can I just load a nice statusbar onto cabbiev2 that I didn't write myself. I need to actually find out the area myself, and edit cabbiev2? |
| 00:34:06 | JdGordon| | you said yourself that the setting is prioritised over %Vi.... |
| 00:34:17 | kugel | I need to edit ever single theme that didn't even use UI vp before? |
| 00:34:32 | JdGordon| | you would get a nice GUI to do it |
| 00:34:39 | kugel | ROFL |
| 00:35:07 | JdGordon| | from your email... "- UI vp is the ultimate viewport for the UI excluding skins (plugins override use it currently, but I'm planning to fix that). It's the viewport that has the top priority for the UI. That's what it has been committed for." |
| 00:35:15 | JdGordon| | which means %Vi is redundant! |
| 00:35:24 | kugel | replacing a super simple info viewport with complete annoying bloat sounds bad to me |
| 00:35:36 | JdGordon| | oy gevalt |
| 00:36:04 | kugel | the point is, a theme doesn't need to be forced to use a UI vp |
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| 00:36:39 | JdGordon| | back to square one :/ |
| 00:36:58 | JdGordon| | forcing the user to specify a viewport isnt a big deal |
| 00:37:06 | kugel | %Vi isn't a big deal |
| 00:37:15 | JdGordon| | its redundant! |
| 00:37:20 | JdGordon| | and inconsistant |
| 00:37:22 | * | gevaerts must admit that he also doesn't see at all why there need to be two ways to say exactly the same thing |
| 00:37:34 | JdGordon| | HALELUYAH! |
| 00:38:31 | kugel | %Vi is also always used for the WPS as default viewport. Do you want to waste space there by using and requiring an unrelated possibly tiny UI vp? |
| 00:38:47 | kugel | gevaerts: we say the same thing? |
| 00:38:59 | JdGordon| | yes... %Vi should definetly not be used by the WPS.... it shuold use the same as the user setting... |
| 00:39:00 | gevaerts | kugel: do we? |
| 00:39:18 | JdGordon| | I would have no problem with %Vi as a fallback if the WPS and lists used the same logic |
| 00:39:51 | mcuelenaere | Should do_menu() be able to handle menus with a STRINGTABLE of 150 strings? |
| 00:40:03 | * | mcuelenaere is having crashes in the sim with Lua and do_menu |
| 00:40:16 | | Quit esperegu_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 00:40:26 | JdGordon| | mcuelenaere: there may be a limit there.. honestly you'd have to check the menu.c code thoguh |
| 00:40:34 | JdGordon| | I havnt looked at the code in months |
| 00:40:58 | | Quit TopyMobile__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 00:41:15 | kugel | the wps was always completely separated from the rest of the UI, w.r.t. to viewports and eveything |
| 00:41:27 | | Quit mcuelenaere () |
| 00:41:30 | JdGordon| | no its not |
| 00:41:35 | kugel | always, not just since sbs |
| 00:41:40 | JdGordon| | and if it *is* now.. it shouldnt be |
| 00:42:02 | JdGordon| | no it wasnt... its default was always the same viewport that the lists are in |
| 00:42:13 | JdGordon| | if the bar is there it doesnt overlap it untill it sees %wd |
| 00:42:22 | kugel | back when the lists where plain fullscreen maybe |
| 00:42:23 | JdGordon| | s/bar/sbs/ and it starts making sense |
| 00:42:29 | gevaerts | kugel: if %Vi is "the viewport that doesn't interfere with the status bar", for which subsystems exactly is it intended? |
| 00:42:48 | JdGordon| | kugel: in that case... you're ui viewport patch was incorrect |
| 00:42:54 | JdGordon| | wrong your |
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| 00:44:02 | JdGordon| | although.... *pre* sbs I can understand why it would work like that |
| 00:44:32 | | Quit petur ("Zzzzzz") |
| 00:45:03 | kugel | and now not anymore? |
| 00:45:12 | kugel | that puzzles me |
| 00:45:47 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:45:58 | kugel | gevaerts: basically, everything. it's only overridden by specifying viewports (and deactivating the status bar of course) |
| 00:46:06 | JdGordon| | because before you were very limited with when you would want to use the ui viewport, it makes sense that you wouldnt use it in the wps... but now, with sbs, there is a much bigger reason to move the ui area |
| 00:46:34 | JdGordon| | in all honesty, we should force the WPS to default to using the fullscreen, and not enable sbs unless %we is there |
| 00:46:39 | JdGordon| | but that will break old themes |
| 00:46:47 | JdGordon| | that imo is the correct change |
| 00:46:58 | gevaerts | kugel: if it's overridden, that means that the setting means the same thing, right? |
| 00:47:35 | kugel | you mean even deactivate when neither %we nor %wd (which is supposed to follow user settings)? |
| 00:48:01 | kugel | gevaerts: yea, but only where the UI vp actually applies. and that's not the WPS for example |
| 00:48:02 | JdGordon| | yes |
| 00:48:16 | JdGordon| | USER SETTING! YOU JUST BLOODY SAID USER SETTING WHICH AGREES WITH ME! |
| 00:48:17 | kugel | strange ideas you get |
| 00:48:22 | JdGordon| | not sbs!!! USER SETTING! |
| 00:48:58 | JdGordon| | you cant pick and choose when to use what.... it gets confusing (oh think of the chil^H^H^H^Husers) |
| 00:48:59 | kugel | %we/%we only changes whether the status bar appears or not |
| 00:49:15 | JdGordon| | the statusbar doesnt mean anything anymore |
| 00:49:18 | JdGordon| | its DEAD! |
| 00:49:30 | kugel | %we/%wd also works for the sbs |
| 00:49:31 | JdGordon| | those tags now mean something else which we need to decide |
| 00:49:48 | JdGordon| | then they should use the same viewport the ui is put in... the user setting |
| 00:50:11 | kugel | wait a second, let me sum up |
| 00:50:14 | JdGordon| | (or fall back to the %Vi if its the same behind-the-scenes0logic as the ui area) |
| 00:51:36 | kugel | you said you would accept %Vi if the wps would default to UI vp (that implies %Vi keeps alive). Then you said you understand that pre-sbs you would want the fullscreen for the WPS. Therefore, if %Vi stays, it's the best choice for the WPS (as fullscreen as possible, doesn't draw over sbs) |
| 00:51:54 | gevaerts | kugel: the UI vp is meant to allow for things like margins that align with the backdrop, while %Vi is meant to indicate an area the sbs is guaranteed not to touch, right? |
| 00:52:02 | * | gevaerts is still exploring the area |
| 00:52:13 | kugel | gevaerts: exactly |
| 00:52:30 | JdGordon| | kugel: you are correct up to "Therefore" |
| 00:52:57 | gevaerts | Doesn't that mean that if you use an sbs on a theme designed for the UI vp, *both* %Vi and the UI vp are wrong? Shouldn't you use the intersection of them for the UI? |
| 00:53:23 | kugel | I considered that yes |
| 00:53:39 | JdGordon| | the intersection is defintly not what the user wants |
| 00:53:53 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: why not? |
| 00:54:10 | | Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") |
| 00:54:53 | JdGordon| | because it will be either smaller or larger than the user wants? |
| 00:55:34 | kugel | only %Vi guarantees the optimal maximized area for the WPS. the UI vp is either to small, or draws over sbs |
| 00:55:35 | gevaerts | I see three ways : (a) you use the intersection (b) you try to pick the "less wrong" out of thin air and are likely to get it wrong, or (c) you disallow non-matched theme+sbs |
| 00:55:49 | JdGordon| | kugel: I dont really care if %Vi stays or not (I tinhk its redundant, but fine).... I just care that the logic to determine the default viewport for the lists is different for the WPS... its confusing |
| 00:55:54 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: how can it be larger? |
| 00:55:58 | kugel | I would like to know why sbs changed your opinion about the best area of the WPS |
| 00:57:00 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: sbs specifies a viewport (x,y,w,h) (10,10,50,50), user setting wants (15,15,30,30)... whats the intersection? |
| 00:57:17 | kugel | (d) be deterministic and priotise the one over the other always |
| 00:57:28 | JdGordon| | YES! |
| 00:57:32 | JdGordon| | thats what ive been arguing for |
| 00:57:34 | gevaerts | kugel: (d) is (b) |
| 00:57:37 | JdGordon| | for criying out loud |
| 00:57:39 | gevaerts | It might be smaller, but that's only because otherwise you either draw UI elements over the sbs which is Wrong, or you draw UI elements over bits of backdrop that clash with them |
| 00:57:57 | kugel | JdGordon|: for lists that is, for the WPS there is only one |
| 00:57:58 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: in that case the intersection is (15,15,30,30) |
| 00:58:02 | kugel | nothing to pick from |
| 00:58:35 | JdGordon| | kugel: pre sbs the only reason to use the ui viewport was to make the list look better with a background image.. that is entirely wrong now |
| 00:58:44 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: oh, intersection is always the smaller of the two? |
| 00:58:49 | kugel | it's not |
| 00:58:58 | * | gevaerts gives JdGordon| some coffee |
| 00:59:02 | kugel | the UI is still only there for that very purpose |
| 00:59:07 | kugel | UI vp |
| 00:59:09 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: it's the overlap between the two |
| 00:59:55 | kugel | the UI is only for areas which otherwise lack customization. That clearly excludes sbs and wps |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:04 | kugel | s/areas/screens |
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| 01:00:41 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (i=thunderc@persistence.flat.devzero.co.uk) |
| 01:01:41 | gevaerts | Assume a theme that has a backdrop with a 15 pixel wide black border, otherwise white, with a black font, on a 100x100 screen. It specifies a UI viewport of (15,15,70,70). The sbs with a green font (always visible) sits at (0,70,100,30), so specifies a %Vi of (0,0,100,70). Now enable both. What's the optimal effective viewport for the UI? |
| 01:02:10 | * | gevaerts promises not to upload any theme that does actually look like that |
| 01:02:16 | | Join roolku [0] (n=roolku@77-99-223-115.cable.ubr16.sgyl.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 01:02:29 | | Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
| 01:02:32 | kugel | gevaerts: they don't overlap? |
| 01:02:55 | kugel | oh, they do |
| 01:03:46 | gevaerts | If you take the intersection, you get (15,15,70,55), which is the white background that's not taken by the sbs |
| 01:03:50 | kugel | the next question, what is the optimal viewport for the wps, which would have the borders removed? |
| 01:04:24 | gevaerts | wps on its own or wps+sbs? |
| 01:04:37 | kugel | well, both |
| 01:05:28 | kugel | after JdGordon it would be the UI vp, I would rather use the %Vi/fullscreen for the no-sbs case |
| 01:06:08 | JdGordon| | ill be back in 10 min |
| 01:06:11 | | Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 01:06:35 | kugel | the interesting thing is that wps w/o sbs (i.e. %wd) will get you what you had pre-sbs and what JdGordon actually understand why it's been done |
| 01:07:20 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:07:24 | | Quit ShapeShifter499 ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20091020102323]") |
| 01:07:25 | gevaerts | in the no-sbs case, I think the wps should use fullscreen. The wps itself is fully viewportified and usually specifies its own background, so I think it should take care of those things itself. Maybe for non-viewport+non-backdrop WPSes UI vp might make some sense |
| 01:07:26 | kugel | using the %Vi also means fullscreen if there's no sbs displayed (I'm not sure if I have expressed that already somewhere) |
| 01:08:12 | kugel | it only matters for non-vp WPSes actually |
| 01:08:15 | gevaerts | For the sbs+wps case I think there's no proper way to do it |
| 01:09:42 | kugel | the UI vp is really only indetended for putting lists and other not-customizable screens into a rectangle. It never applied for screens that can do costumization itself |
| 01:09:48 | kugel | intended too |
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| 01:10:00 | gevaerts | you have to use the sbs %Vi, or you get drawing issues (assuming %Vi is specified correctly), and if the wps doesn't specify a backdrop you have to use the UI vp to avoid background/font clashes. |
| 01:10:26 | kugel | we do use the %Vi currently |
| 01:10:29 | gevaerts | so I think that in the reasonably specialised case of a non-VP wps without a specified backdrop the intersection is correct |
| 01:10:36 | kugel | that's IMO the optimal choice for the WPS |
| 01:11:19 | * | kugel isn't sure if intersection should be really done |
| 01:11:37 | gevaerts | kugel: for general UI or for wps? |
| 01:11:43 | gevaerts | (or both) |
| 01:11:46 | kugel | generally |
| 01:11:56 | kugel | but I wouldn't be against it |
| 01:12:32 | gevaerts | I think the example I gave shows that for some cases at least it's the only working solution. Obviously there are edge cases where the intersection would be empty, so there it definitely doesn't work |
| 01:12:51 | gevaerts | I'd consider those to be a case of "don't use this sbs with this theme |
| 01:13:52 | kugel | it's at least imaginable, although highly improbable |
| 01:14:46 | | Join JdGordon1 [0] (n=jonno@68-29-152-217.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:14:56 | JdGordon1 | back.. ok.. lemme read the backlog |
| 01:15:25 | | Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") |
| 01:15:30 | gevaerts | it requires half the screen to be declared off-limits by at least one of them. I'd only expect that to happen for people who have a broken LCD (in which case the sbs and UI would *really* clash), or for themes/sbses that are really not at all meant to mix and match |
| 01:15:41 | kugel | gevaerts: I can also imagine that intersection is what you would like to see and expect (from a user pov) |
| 01:15:54 | gevaerts | kugel: I think so, yes. |
| 01:17:18 | gevaerts | You have to handle the empty-intersection somehow of course. Either you refuse to load, or you fall back to either the UI vp or %Vi. I think you only need to make the system usable enough for the user to pick another theme or sbs though, not to actually be really usable |
| 01:18:24 | kugel | we don't protect anywhere against empty viewports. |
| 01:18:30 | JdGordon1 | ok... intersection is an unnessecary complication |
| 01:18:44 | JdGordon1 | nothing says we have to look after people who put together badly designed themes |
| 01:19:36 | kugel | each the UI vp with background and the sbs can be designed extra ordinarily well on their own but still cause redraw problems |
| 01:19:44 | JdGordon1 | if the wps (for that matter... any skin) always is set up for the full display then there is no problem |
| 01:20:18 | | Quit DerPapst ("Leaving.") |
| 01:20:21 | JdGordon1 | which is why its silly to say that sbs/wps/etc are completly removed from themes |
| 01:20:26 | kugel | full display? I thought UI viewport |
| 01:20:34 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: for the wps I tend to agree, although I'm not sure. For non-skinned UI, I don't see any other working solution |
| 01:20:38 | JdGordon1 | it just doesnt make sense to put two together and hope they work |
| 01:21:06 | JdGordon1 | kugel: full screen seems to make more sense to me... otherwise yes the ui viewport which is the same ordering as the lists |
| 01:21:16 | JdGordon1 | so setting if exsits, otherwse %Vi |
| 01:21:26 | kugel | a full-sized wps default vp (no matter of whether you actually draw stuff into or not) will just always conflict with a sbs |
| 01:21:38 | JdGordon1 | yes |
| 01:21:43 | | Quit Hillshum (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:21:47 | | Quit AndyI (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:22:15 | kugel | that's a problem |
| 01:22:28 | JdGordon1 | so in that case you would have to add the %we tag to enable the sbs and then you do get the same ui area as the lists... if you dont like that then specify a different viewport |
| 01:22:39 | JdGordon1 | seen as the defsault viwport doesnt get drawn in in viewported wps anyway |
| 01:22:53 | kugel | if there's no sbs in the wps then there's no problem |
| 01:23:01 | JdGordon1 | yes |
| 01:23:17 | JdGordon1 | if there is no sbs then there is no difference between ui viewport and fullscreen |
| 01:23:28 | JdGordon1 | unless the setting is set |
| 01:23:32 | kugel | the default viewport gets cleared though, several times. that's the main problem |
| 01:23:38 | JdGordon1 | in which case.. if the wps doesnt like it, it creates a new one |
| 01:23:46 | kugel | as I said, whether you draw stuff into it or not |
| 01:23:49 | JdGordon1 | so we should get rid of this idea of a default viewport |
| 01:24:04 | JdGordon1 | or default to the same area as the lists |
| 01:24:14 | JdGordon1 | those are your choices |
| 01:24:50 | kugel | but the UI vp possibly also conflicts. %Vi is the only safe choice (or intersecting) |
| 01:25:33 | gevaerts | I'd go for using the intersection in the UI and in non-VP wpses |
| 01:25:46 | kugel | and the problem here is that you cannot simply fix the wps default viewport without impact on the whole ui |
| 01:25:50 | gevaerts | (if the sbs is shown of course) |
| 01:26:19 | JdGordon1 | gevaerts: intersection doesnt make sense because the only reason you'd put the setting there is to overwrite the %vi... i think |
| 01:27:02 | kugel | or loading a sbs from a different theme |
| 01:27:05 | JdGordon1 | kugel: easy fix... do the same ALWAYS_HIDDEN thing in all skins instead of just the sbs if any viewports are defined |
| 01:27:33 | kugel | that will break a lot of themes |
| 01:27:40 | JdGordon1 | intersection i think would lso confuse users... ("why is my list only half of what i specified?") |
| 01:28:00 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: no. The UI vp belongs to the backdrop |
| 01:28:07 | kugel | I think it's totally clear to the user when he spots that the sbs is where he had lists previously |
| 01:28:11 | JdGordon1 | kugel: no it wont... any which have other viewports defined dont draw in the default one anyway... and big deal if some break |
| 01:28:33 | JdGordon1 | gevaerts: it does?! |
| 01:28:40 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: conceptually, yes |
| 01:29:06 | JdGordon1 | and wps' which dont have a backdrop? what do they belong to? |
| 01:29:25 | kugel | the wps is likely to have a different one |
| 01:29:37 | * | gevaerts thinks that wps and non-wps cases definitely need to be looked at separately |
| 01:29:56 | * | JdGordon1 glares at gevaerts |
| 01:30:07 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: you mean wpses that inherit the UI backdrop, or no backdrop at all (i.e. plain colour)? |
| 01:30:11 | kugel | gevaerts: that's what I'm doing the whole time |
| 01:30:17 | JdGordon1 | also.. remember that wps here also means radio screen, and other screens as thy get added |
| 01:30:29 | JdGordon1 | gevaerts: both... which are i tinhk the same |
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| 01:31:28 | Rand_Althor | I'm thinking of switching from MP3 to OGG. Can anyone guess how much of a difference that would make in battery life? (e200v1) |
| 01:31:30 | JdGordon1 | isnt the reason for the broken %pb because the default viewport isnt setup correctly now? |
| 01:31:44 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: the cases are different, because for the general list-based UI bits you can actually make the UI work with any arbitrary rectangle (within reason. I'm not asking for a 1x1 UI). For skinnable screens this isn't true |
| 01:32:08 | kugel | JdGordon1: it's set up to late, or rather the %pb is setup to early |
| 01:32:45 | JdGordon1 | then skinable screens shold be given the whole display and at their discretion change to the ui area or something compeltly different |
| 01:32:58 | kugel | I'm not liking the fact that the default viewport size needs to be known at parsing, but I don't bother with that, the fix will probably partly revert some setup there |
| 01:33:04 | JdGordon1 | set_defaults() should always return the same viewport... and fullscreen() should always return the full display |
| 01:33:16 | gevaerts | Rand_Althor: the best way to find out is to test. Battery life is likely to go down a bit though, the rockbox mp3 decoder is more efficient than the ogg decoder on PortalPlayer (the CPU used in the e200v1) |
| 01:33:19 | JdGordon1 | kugel: the default was always known... you changed it recently |
| 01:33:34 | kugel | yes |
| 01:33:47 | linuxstb | Rand_Althor: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaRuntime may have some clues (but lots of information there is out of date...) |
| 01:34:19 | gevaerts | How many wpses are actually expected to work properly with a custom status bar? rockbox_default will work, but apart from that one? |
| 01:34:45 | gevaerts | s/a custom status bar/an arbitrary custom status bar/ |
| 01:34:46 | kugel | all that don't use viewports |
| 01:34:50 | Rand_Althor | I probably will test, I'm just asking because if you told me I'd lose ~25% of my battery time, I wouldn't even bother. Could it be that high? |
| 01:35:06 | kugel | because of %Vi |
| 01:35:12 | | Quit roolku () |
| 01:35:23 | JdGordon1 | gevaerts: thats not really the point though... most people want swap and change |
| 01:36:22 | JdGordon1 | kugel: GOT IT! ok.. most wps which dont use viewports (i.e ones we expect to work here).. also dont set backdroips right? which means we would expect them to be in the same area as the list. therefore using Vi here instead of the setting is not what the user expects |
| 01:36:59 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: in that case, the user would expect the intersection between Vi and UI VP |
| 01:37:21 | kugel | JdGordon1: I can't follow that conclusion |
| 01:37:30 | JdGordon1 | well maybe.. but intersection is an added complication |
| 01:37:45 | gevaerts | why? It solves real problems... |
| 01:38:41 | JdGordon1 | fine, if its always the intersection I'd be happy with that |
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| 01:39:05 | JdGordon1 | I've been arguing (for 3 days now) that the logic to get that area should not be different based on the screen |
| 01:39:55 | kugel | intersecting the lists would actually be harder to do than intersecting always |
| 01:40:01 | kugel | lists only I mean |
| 01:40:20 | JdGordon1 | I have faith that it could be done! :) |
| 01:40:27 | JdGordon1 | so are we finally agreeing? |
| 01:40:31 | gevaerts | kugel: don't forget that the status bar isn't always enabled on the wps |
| 01:40:34 | JdGordon1 | do we have consensus? |
| 01:40:47 | gevaerts | so I suspect you need both sets of numbers anyway |
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| 01:41:09 | kugel | don't worry, the framework for statusbar toggleging works so far :) |
| 01:41:37 | JdGordon1 | gevaerts: no you wouldnt... you would initialise a viewprt with a different funciton which behind the scenes knows everything |
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| 01:41:43 | JdGordon1 | its either fullscreen or intersection |
| 01:42:22 | * | JdGordon1 is willing to bet that if this happens viewport.c would start being cleaner... and %pb will just work again |
| 01:42:22 | kugel | viewport_set_defaults doesn't initialize necessarily. it rather copies the UI vp |
| 01:42:40 | gevaerts | Of course you can also interpret no sbs as a zero size Vi, which means that the intersection would be the UI VP anyway |
| 01:42:48 | kugel | %pb can be fixed indepentendly |
| 01:42:48 | JdGordon1 | thats where the intersect happens |
| 01:43:11 | JdGordon1 | rename it to get_ui_Area() |
| 01:43:11 | JdGordon1 | ditto if Vi is there and the setting isnt |
| 01:43:30 | gevaerts | yes, but that doesn't change all the time |
| 01:43:45 | JdGordon1 | neither will change often |
| 01:43:50 | * | gevaerts keeps out of the where-do-we-code-this discussion |
| 01:43:52 | JdGordon1 | and chaning isnt an issue |
| 01:44:08 | kugel | gevaerts: we can detect statusbar changes just fine, that's not a problem |
| 01:44:19 | JdGordon1 | kugel: are we both happy with intersection or fullscreen always? |
| 01:44:36 | kugel | where/when do you want the fullscreen case? |
| 01:44:46 | gevaerts | "full" wps I guess |
| 01:44:49 | JdGordon1 | graphic EQ |
| 01:44:54 | JdGordon1 | fullscreen wps |
| 01:44:55 | JdGordon1 | plugins |
| 01:45:07 | JdGordon1 | any screen which doesnt fit in the smaller one |
| 01:45:18 | kugel | and what is fullscreen then? |
| 01:45:25 | kugel | 0,0,...? |
| 01:45:28 | JdGordon1 | 0,0,width,height\ |
| 01:45:32 | JdGordon1 | sbs disabled |
| 01:45:36 | JdGordon1 | it is really the entire display |
| 01:45:46 | gevaerts | basically any screen that doesn't support a variable size at all |
| 01:45:48 | kugel | I rather fix the affected screens to be viewportified |
| 01:46:01 | JdGordon1 | untill then! |
| 01:46:06 | JdGordon1 | and even then.. they dont always fit |
| 01:46:10 | kugel | but until we're there we can only do fullscreen anyway |
| 01:46:17 | JdGordon1 | i.e quickscreen with a small ui area |
| 01:46:28 | kugel | quickscreen is pretty safe |
| 01:46:38 | JdGordon1 | just an example |
| 01:47:01 | gevaerts | I suspect you'll want some plugins to remain fullscreen anyway, especially some of the games |
| 01:47:10 | JdGordon1 | right, about to get off the bus... yes or no... are we in agreement? |
| 01:47:15 | * | gevaerts is |
| 01:47:26 | * | kugel didn't expect "what to do with non-resizable screens" to be a question |
| 01:47:34 | kugel | I think we are |
| 01:47:49 | gevaerts | kugel: the answer is easy : we non-resize them :) |
| 01:48:00 | kugel | UI vp for the wps, %Vi as fallback, intersection |
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| 01:59:06 | JdGordon | kugel: UI setting always, %Vi as fallback.. if both are there is intersection |
| 01:59:37 | kugel | yes |
| 01:59:45 | JdGordon | great! |
| 01:59:48 | JdGordon | freeking mazal tov! :p |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:03 | JdGordon | what else can we argue about? :D |
| 02:00:15 | * | kugel offers JdGordon a handshake |
| 02:00:22 | JdGordon | haha |
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| 02:14:39 | JdGordon | kugel: you know the wpsbuild.pl script yeah? |
| 02:15:47 | kugel | slightly... |
| 02:15:54 | kugel | it's perl so I would say I know it |
| 02:16:13 | kugel | I think I managed to prepare it for preinstalling .sbs though |
| 02:17:01 | JdGordon | does it handle putting a theme together which doesnt have the screen dimensions in the actual .wps? |
| 02:17:11 | JdGordon | (thinking ahead to .sbs of course though) |
| 02:17:35 | kugel | I think so |
| 02:17:49 | JdGordon | tthe classic_statusbar.sbs file can be almost identicle for just about all targets so i dont want to have to make one for each differnt lcd size |
| 02:18:13 | JdGordon | except the RTC part is going to cause big problems though isnt it? |
| 02:18:46 | kugel | I don't think so |
| 02:19:31 | kugel | IIRC the rtc tags in the wps are working for non-rtc (returning −−:−− and the like), I think there's even a tag for testing the target's RTC capability |
| 02:19:48 | JdGordon | oh right.. ok that could work |
| 02:20:00 | kugel | you might even drop the rtc then, which would even improve the classic statusbar |
| 02:20:18 | JdGordon | that wouldnt improve it :) |
| 02:20:23 | JdGordon | the clock is nice there |
| 02:20:30 | kugel | "−−:−−" also? |
| 02:20:40 | kugel | I mean for non-rtc of course |
| 02:20:46 | JdGordon | only if there is a rtc but its not set |
| 02:20:58 | JdGordon | non rtc wouldnt show that.. if there is a tag for that |
| 02:21:12 | kugel | in the current status bar too? |
| 02:21:18 | * | kugel isn't sure |
| 02:21:38 | kugel | I think my samsung yh925 showed −−:−− before I enabled rtc in config-yh925.h |
| 02:22:09 | JdGordon | yeah, I dont see a way to know the difference between no rtc and unset rtc |
| 02:22:41 | kugel | JdGordon: don't forget early USB please (which connects to usb before any disk access), or you'll have a talk with amiconn |
| 02:22:53 | JdGordon | I know I know... |
| 02:23:07 | JdGordon | there is a very boring hard coded one which is different to classic |
| 02:23:48 | * | JdGordon sees if he can change one of the rtc tags to return NULL instead of a string if there is no rtc |
| 02:24:04 | * | JdGordon is an idiot |
| 02:24:11 | JdGordon | scroll up a few lines.. that tag exists :p |
| 02:24:31 | JdGordon | %?cc |
| 02:24:34 | kugel | " I think there's even a tag for testing the target's RTC capability" |
| 02:24:56 | kugel | it's not documented in CustomWPS :/ |
| 02:26:40 | * | JdGordon goes to add it |
| 02:26:58 | JdGordon | how badly is the manual and that wiki page out of sync? |
| 02:27:17 | JdGordon | you're apparently editing it |
| 02:29:43 | JdGordon | %?cc apparently doesnt work |
| 02:31:58 | JdGordon | which single display targets dont have a rtc? |
| 02:36:52 | kugel | no plan |
| 02:37:18 | JdGordon | ? |
| 02:38:18 | JdGordon | haha the ipodg1 sim is fucked :) |
| 02:38:27 | JdGordon | 2 scroll events for each up/down press |
| 02:38:50 | JdGordon | the custom statusbar option is impossibl to get to! |
| 02:39:00 | kugel | it affects all scrollwheel sims |
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| 02:39:14 | JdGordon | i havnt seen that in the e200 |
| 02:41:42 | | Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:43:43 | * | linuxstb has noticed that in the Nano2G sim... |
| 02:56:14 | JdGordon | I think amiconn mentioned it a few days ago.. but i wasnt paying attention :p |
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| 03:16:21 | * | linuxstb blames kkurbjun and r22977 |
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| 03:18:16 | * | linuxstb also guesses it only applies to scrollwheels where HAVE_WHEEL_ACCELERATION isn't defined |
| 03:21:49 | CIA-85 | New commit by kevin (r23392): Fixed the Boomshine plugin not to crash when there are no more levels to play |
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| 03:58:32 | * | JdGordon stumbles on more fairly new #define mess :( |
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| 04:07:41 | JdGordon | OH Bloody hell.... the %V line is different for grey/mono/colour targets :/ |
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| 04:09:12 | JdGordon | hmm... no? |
| 04:09:28 | JdGordon | ARRRRR!!! |
| 04:09:44 | JdGordon | "time format" setting obviously doesnt exist on non rtc builds |
| 04:09:47 | JdGordon | crap... |
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| 04:27:16 | CIA-85 | New commit by jdgordon (r23393): * code police on a macro which has no reason for being ... |
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| 05:18:31 | CIA-85 | New commit by kevin (r23394): Boomshine plugin : Better messages at the end of the game (fixes the nblevel+1 being displayed) |
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| 06:06:15 | CIA-85 | New commit by tomers (r23395): Don't break line too early |
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| 07:00 |
| 07:00:16 | pixelma | the RTC exist tag works still on my Ondio at least with r22913 but I'll update and check, targets it is usefull for are the Ondios and the H100s an early Ipods I believe, the classic statusbar shows nothing on non-RTC targets |
| 07:03:36 | pixelma | the tag was documented in the manual |
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| 07:10:20 | JdGordon | pixelma: yeah, my mistake.. the %?St tag doesnt work on non rtc targets because that time format setting doesnt exist |
| 07:10:30 | JdGordon | I'm using that to choose between 12 and 24 hour mode... |
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| 07:15:35 | * | JdGordon just loves it when the WPS doesnt display at all, but it is in the screen! |
| 07:15:54 | pixelma | you'll probably will also have a small problem with the virtual LED tag as it is only enabled on targets that have no real LED (or at least that's how it was) |
| 07:17:53 | JdGordon | grr :/ |
| 07:18:07 | JdGordon | can we do a features.txt thing for skins also :) |
| 07:18:44 | JdGordon | actually, something like the lang file so each theme has a default and a different file can be chosen per target |
| 07:18:50 | pixelma | I never understood that *completely* (well yes it is called "virtual" LED and should be a replacement for the real LED) but if the classic statusbar showed disk activity there I would be for enabling that tag on all targets |
| 07:20:30 | pixelma | make wpsbuil.pl chose something like "cabbiev2.160x128x2.rtc.wps"? ... would be nice |
| 07:22:53 | JdGordon | something like e200*: cabbiev2.160x128x2.rtc.wps |
| 07:23:13 | JdGordon | same idea as the lang file where the target chooses which string to use |
| 07:23:33 | pixelma | ok, that's slightly different |
| 07:24:27 | JdGordon | more than slightly :) |
| 07:24:33 | pixelma | then you have to go through all the targets and have to check if it'll work or not and get a long (or short) list |
| 07:24:33 | JdGordon | but it gives us more control |
| 07:24:49 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 07:26:05 | pixelma | I guess the control will only be interesting for certain features but display resolution is still a fact |
| 07:28:27 | JdGordon | display res doesnt have to be a fact at all... |
| 07:28:53 | JdGordon | the classic_statusbar works fine on any display width above a certain size |
| 07:29:09 | JdGordon | yes its a crap one, but its one that does work no matter how wide the display is |
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| 07:32:19 | pixelma | but you won't make it work this variably if you keep it bitmapped with the current system (at least if the disk activity stays at the right corner) |
| 07:35:22 | JdGordon | ? |
| 07:36:59 | pixelma | well you would need to give the position for the virtual LED bitmap and this varies from display size to display size as it is right aligned so to speak |
| 07:39:42 | JdGordon | my recent viewport changes fixes that... you can use negative numbers for the 4 pixel position values to mean "other edge minus BLAA" |
| 07:39:54 | JdGordon | i.e x=-50 is 50pixels from the right edge |
| 07:41:04 | pixelma | ah hmm |
| 07:41:28 | JdGordon | which is useful for more than just making a skin work on multiple displays :) |
| 07:44:13 | pixelma | and in this example the viewport to the left of it will know about it if you don't give the width of it (I mean leave the width as - ) |
| 07:44:17 | pixelma | ? |
| 07:45:44 | pixelma | sorry for weird way of putting this, I hope it's understood |
| 07:47:23 | JdGordon | that would only work if the draw order is left to right (viewports)... but you could use -50 for the width of the viewport on the left so it guarentees to not overlap :) |
| 07:50:43 | JdGordon | eek... circular dependancies with the statusbar and wps and viewport initialising :( |
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| 08:06:42 | pixelma | so, the themer has to take care that the width still is correct himself (or herself)... |
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| 08:07:42 | JdGordon | well, the would anyway |
| 08:07:57 | JdGordon | wierd shit happens when there is no Vi and ui viewport setting :) |
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| 08:27:44 | JdGordon | whats the %mv tag? |
| 08:29:05 | amiconn | JdGordon: That bug doesn't affect all scrollwheel sims. Out of the sims I am building, it only affects iPod G1/G2, but I didn't analyze the bug yet |
| 08:30:19 | amiconn | And the built-in status bar should be identical to the current one |
| 08:31:29 | JdGordon | it will be close... not identicle |
| 08:31:41 | JdGordon | there is a .sbs file which will be identicle |
| 08:31:46 | JdGordon | tical |
| 08:32:40 | amiconn | why? |
| 08:33:05 | amiconn | Hmm, and could you explain what negative width/height actually adds? |
| 08:33:12 | CIA-85 | New commit by jdgordon (r23396): minor changes... ... |
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| 08:33:37 | pixelma | JdGordon: wasn't it you who implemented the %mv tag? IIRC it is for displaying something else while changing volume... |
| 08:33:42 | amiconn | Iiuc you can always define the same viewport using positive width and height |
| 08:33:44 | JdGordon | because the bitmaps make it impossible, without adding extra tags to handle them correclty (whereas they could be completly removed :) ) |
| 08:34:02 | JdGordon | pixelma: yeah, checked the wiki.. im half asleep here |
| 08:34:35 | JdGordon | amiconn: of course you can... but if you are lazy (which I am very muchly) you dont have to worry about lcd size.. ou can just give a negative value and it will do the magic for you |
| 08:34:44 | amiconn | ?? |
| 08:34:45 | JdGordon | and it makes sharing skins between targets simpler |
| 08:35:00 | amiconn | For x and y this is obvious, but not for width and height |
| 08:35:12 | JdGordon | its less obvious.. but it does work |
| 08:35:30 | JdGordon | not when you use negative for both x and width though :p thats just silly |
| 08:35:33 | amiconn | I'm not asking whether it works, it's just unnecessary imo |
| 08:37:10 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 08:37:55 | amiconn | Negative x and y allow you to define viewports which keep their positition relative to the right and bottom edge, which is perfectly understandable. But what does negative width and height actually add? |
| 08:38:02 | | Quit fyrestorm ("lamers envy me like they envy bill g -- main boot xp, just the way it should be!") |
| 08:38:29 | amiconn | You can always define the same viewport using positive width and/or height and negative x and y instead |
| 08:38:41 | amiconn | Unless I'm missing something, that is |
| 08:39:58 | JdGordon | you are right.. its just another way to do it which some people might prefer... one use case I just thought of though is centering text inside this viewport, using a negative number moves the center depending on the lcd width |
| 08:40:27 | JdGordon | other than that, yeah there is no real need for it... It was a not thought out rushed commit |
| 08:40:34 | JdGordon | it seemed to make sense at the time |
| 08:42:01 | pixelma | amiconn: it adds right or bottom aligned viewports independent of actual display size |
| 08:42:34 | pixelma | like in the statusbar example |
| 08:42:50 | JdGordon | na, he is right :p only the negative x/y values are actually useful |
| 08:43:00 | JdGordon | width/height doesnt add anything |
| 08:43:40 | pixelma | and how would you have the left viewport in the statusbar example have variable size then? |
| 08:44:17 | amiconn | pixelma: Negative x and y already adds that possibility |
| 08:44:45 | amiconn | I'm not questioning that, I'm only questioning negative width and height |
| 08:45:25 | pixelma | well, he told me that you would need -50 for the width instead of just "skipping" the parameter with - for the left one |
| 08:46:17 | amiconn | Hmm, then how does that actually work? |
| 08:46:43 | pixelma | so I assumed it was needed to get the viewport size as - usually means "from here to the end of the display" |
| 08:47:02 | amiconn | My (intuitive) assumption is that negative width just means the viewport extends to the left instead to the right, so that the x coordinate defines the right edge of the viewport |
| 08:47:13 | JdGordon | pixelma: well if you know you want -100 for x, and -50 for width, you could just use 50 for the width to get the same thing :) |
| 08:47:40 | amiconn | JdGordon: Then you'd need a different x though, correct? |
| 08:47:46 | pixelma | JdGordon: that isn't variable then though... which was my whole point |
| 08:48:10 | JdGordon | I hate you guys :) you're confusing me |
| 08:48:14 | JdGordon | I agree with you both! |
| 08:48:21 | JdGordon | which means its way past my bed time! |
| 08:48:23 | JdGordon | good night |
| 08:48:27 | CIA-85 | New commit by kevin (r23397): Boomshine plugin : port to Greyscale and B/W targets, and targets without touchscreen (currently using the virtual keyboard keymap) |
| 08:48:43 | * | amiconn thinks that this brings up a valid point though - the current system doesn't allow to define a viewport width which depends on the display width |
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| 08:52:17 | pixelma | you could get the same effect if you make " - " clever enough to figure out itself that there is a viewport to the right that could get in the way |
| 08:52:52 | pixelma | or below |
| 08:55:46 | JdGordon | crap.. just had a idea for skins and dont want to forget it.... have a seperate settings file for skins so instead of having to comment out %Vd lines like that commit 10min ago allowed, you could just check the value of some tag which loads the one settings file shared between all skins, themers would be free to add as much configurability as they liked to skins then! |
| 09:00 |
| 09:05:25 | amiconn | Hmm. Did anyone try lua on SH1 yet? |
| 09:05:56 | amiconn | Is that even built? If not, these lua plugins should be excluded for small plugin buffer targets |
| 09:06:25 | pixelma | I think lua isn't build on lowmem (but am not sure at the moment) |
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| 09:14:37 | pixelma | JdGordon (for later) - why would the setting if you want graphical or text battery and volume indicators be gone? I guess you could achieve the same effect with the %St tag if you keep the setting, no? |
| 09:14:52 | pixelma | same effect as in the current status bar |
| 09:15:55 | pixelma | it lets people still chose the way they want to display it without an own .sbs file |
| 09:16:33 | pixelma | or even with a custom sbs |
| 09:27:09 | Unhelpful | amiconn: you may have seen, but kugel and i have been trying to build with an eabi toolchain again... we've got things to the point where rockbox builds, but we have three boot failures for three targets. i don't recall precisely where he said his were failing, but my e200 just hangs at the splashscreen... any ideas on how to proceed? look at asm for early boot, i would guess? |
| 09:28:03 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (i=thunderc@persistence.flat.devzero.co.uk) |
| 09:32:19 | amiconn | Unhelpful: Hmm. Checking the asm is a good idea. Perhaps you can also use an easy to control indicator (e.g the button lights on a c200 - they're gpio controlled), and move that forward through the boot sequence step by step |
| 09:34:20 | amiconn | These long-call veneers - are they always put into the correct section? |
| 09:34:46 | amiconn | Also, is eabi parameter passing and function return different from the old arm abi? |
| 09:34:55 | amiconn | If so, all asm functions need changing |
| 09:36:18 | Unhelpful | i don't have a c200... is there a fairly easy indicator available on the e200? from what i could see, the *syscall* parameter passing convention changes, to align 64-bit parameters to even registers. i didn't see anything stating that that extends beyond syscalls... |
| 09:40:10 | CIA-85 | New commit by kevin (r23398): Boomshine plugin : make speed and ball sizes adapt to the target screen size to get a constant gameplay |
| 09:52:00 | Unhelpful | hm! well, apparently it does. a function with signature (int a, long long int b) expect a in r0 and b in (r2,r3) |
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| 10:50:02 | kugel | JdGordon keeps adding unrelated changes to his patch :/ |
| 10:51:35 | Unhelpful | kugel: hey! the even-register-aligned doubleword parameter for eabi *do* apply to regular function calls... any idea how best to find any asm functions that take a doubleword? |
| 10:52:34 | kugel | I knew that, but I don't think we have asm functions taking long long |
| 10:52:53 | kugel | maybe in codecs, but that shouldn't prevent booting |
| 10:53:32 | kugel | but other than looking at each *.S for for target, no |
| 10:53:48 | Unhelpful | are you entirely certain? isn't our size_t long long? |
| 10:54:22 | kugel | btw, the sansa fuze failure is somewhere near mounting filesystems (the sd driver panics), I assume the e200 one is before that |
| 10:55:13 | Unhelpful | i only see the bootloader splash screen on e200. |
| 10:56:39 | kugel | same here |
| 10:57:18 | Unhelpful | there could also be struct packing issues, if any of the early stuff relies on struct portability between c and asm... |
| 10:57:52 | kugel | you could try adding a lcd_clear_display() after lcd_init, for before you could use buttonlight as indicator |
| 11:00 |
| 11:09:26 | jasio | New lua script boomshine causes a PANIC on vx777. most likely a problem on the player than with lua |
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| 12:15:15 | CIA-85 | New commit by roolku (r23399): Fix FS #10734 - scoring in boomshine.lua is broken (r23391) |
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| 12:43:12 | gingermig | Hi devs and others! I have googled the following idea, but found nothing special. Here goes: |
| 12:43:26 | gingermig | The X5, among others, has USB OTG capability. |
| 12:43:35 | gingermig | Would it, at some point in the future, |
| 12:43:51 | | Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@78-22-101-254.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:43:58 | gingermig | be possible to use a USB microphone connected to the OTG port, |
| 12:44:23 | mcuelenaere | jasio: what panic are you getting? |
| 12:44:32 | gingermig | and thereby use the media player and Rockbox to act as a high-quality mobile recorder? |
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| 12:45:07 | jasio | mcuelenaere: some characters are printed out of the screen but I get this: |
| 12:45:13 | jasio | *PANIC* |
| 12:45:13 | jasio | Exception occurred: Reserved Instructio [0x080100A1] at 0x80F37890 (stack at 0 |
| 12:45:16 | jasio | 80003100) |
| 12:45:19 | jasio | *PANIC* |
| 12:45:21 | jasio | Exception occurred: Reserved Instructio [0x080100A1] at 0x80F37890 (stack at 0 |
| 12:45:24 | jasio | 80003100) |
| 12:45:51 | mcuelenaere | odd, what SVN revision are you using and how do you launch the game? |
| 12:46:30 | mcuelenaere | wow the balls are much smaller now with those recent commits |
| 12:47:14 | jasio | r23391 I think |
| 12:47:37 | jasio | r23395 actually |
| 12:47:48 | mcuelenaere | hmm I used r23399 and it works perfectly (VX747) |
| 12:47:52 | mcuelenaere | use* |
| 12:48:15 | mcuelenaere | jasio: can you run any other Lua scripts? |
| 12:48:49 | jasio | i don't have any other one. any one you want me to try? |
| 12:48:50 | mcuelenaere | jasio: also, do you experience a noticeable delay when connecting your DAP to your computer between physically connecting it and the OS mounting the disk? (~10-20 secs) |
| 12:48:58 | * | mcuelenaere looks |
| 12:49:48 | mcuelenaere | jasio: try this one http://pastebin.com/d505df63 |
| 12:50:48 | jasio | mounting on WinXP at work is quick. |
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| 12:52:10 | mcuelenaere | hmm ok, I get bus resets when mounting it here on Linux (which didn't appear in earlier SVN revisions) |
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| 12:53:34 | jasio | that lua script works. |
| 12:53:58 | mcuelenaere | jasio: what happens if you go to /.rockbox/rocks/games/boomshine.lua and run the script from there? |
| 12:54:05 | mcuelenaere | (in the file browser) |
| 12:54:46 | jasio | i get the "level 1" text and a second or two later the PANIC |
| 12:55:21 | mcuelenaere | ah so it's dependant on some actions runned by the script |
| 12:56:04 | jasio | yeah |
| 12:58:03 | mcuelenaere | huh? VX777 simulator doesn't build |
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| 12:59:54 | jasio | i have the sim running but not updated it for while |
| 12:59:54 | mcuelenaere | looks like it needs a rockbox-ondavx777.bmp |
| 12:59:54 | mcuelenaere | UI-ondavx777.bmp* |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:36 | jasio | I might have copied that pic from vx747 |
| 13:00:40 | mcuelenaere | bah, grid mode is still the default? |
| 13:00:42 | * | mcuelenaere did that too |
| 13:00:53 | mcuelenaere | it needs a picture of the VX777 though |
| 13:02:28 | jasio | it doesn't look significantly different from 747 so it was enough for my first try |
| 13:02:28 | mcuelenaere | great, no crash in the sim |
| 13:02:28 | * | mcuelenaere adds a :/ to that |
| 13:03:56 | jasio | got to go to meeting. brb |
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| 13:06:43 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23400): Remove svn:executable from simulator UI |
| 13:07:15 | * | mcuelenaere got to go too |
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| 13:33:35 | CIA-85 | New commit by mc2739 (r23401): Remove svn:executable from wps |
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| 13:58:58 | * | gevaerts grumbles |
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| 16:09:11 | CIA-85 | New commit by nls (r23402): Const correctness |
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| 16:29:42 | gevaerts | any theme site admin around? PHI-infoScreen for 320x240 contains non-theme settings |
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| 16:49:56 | mc2739 | Thingie200 for 176x220 also has non-theme settings |
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| 16:52:08 | gevaerts | mc2739: which? |
| 16:55:24 | pixelma | and there is still the problem of some themes showing for wrong resolutions |
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| 16:57:26 | mc2739 | gevaerts: which settings? |
| 16:57:50 | gevaerts | mc2739: yes. I've looked at it, and I don't see anything special. |
| 16:58:11 | mc2739 | it has fmpresets - is taht theme related? |
| 16:58:39 | mc2739 | s/taht/that |
| 16:58:59 | gevaerts | oh indeed. I'd missed that :\ I only looked at the cfg |
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| 16:59:31 | Hillshum | It would be nice if rbutil could download and install fmpresets for users... |
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| 16:59:59 | mc2739 | there is also a .kbd file and a .colours file that colud be considered theme related, but are not in the .cfg |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:23 | mc2739 | s/colud/could/ |
| 17:00:26 | gevaerts | I don't think a .kbd belongs in a theme |
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| 17:03:51 | kugel | Hillshum: that would be fine indeed |
| 17:04:14 | kugel | gevaerts: kbd is an edge case IMO |
| 17:04:27 | Hillshum | Along with other regional settings (DST?) |
| 17:04:53 | gevaerts | kugel: why? How is that related to theming? |
| 17:05:15 | kugel | it changes the look of a part in rockbox |
| 17:05:51 | gevaerts | with that argument themes can ship cover.jpg files |
| 17:06:33 | kugel | a fallback one in .rockbox/albumart, indeed. nice idea |
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| 17:40:54 | rasher | gevaerts: you certainly dug your own grave there |
| 17:41:54 | gevaerts | rasher: maybe, but I still don't see why a file that configures which characters you can type belongs in a theme :) |
| 17:42:35 | rasher | I agree with that. |
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| 17:52:10 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23403): Also expose functions having (s)size_t or off_t as argument/return type to Lua. |
| 17:52:13 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23404): Expose pcmbuf_beep() to plugins (based on FS #10608 by Christophe Gragnic) |
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| 18:13:37 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23405): Lua: return nil when function failed instead of returning nothing |
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| 18:16:32 | CIA-85 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r23406): Only expose pcmbuf_beep on SWCODEC targets (aka fix red). |
| 18:21:42 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
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| 18:35:15 | JdGordon | pixelma: well, those settings would be unused, so they shold be removed... which is why I blurted out that idea a few min before your message |
| 18:36:26 | JdGordon | kugel: everything is releated to everything :D |
| 18:42:58 | pixelma | why would they be unused? |
| 18:43:34 | | Quit DerPapst ("Leaving.") |
| 18:44:44 | JdGordon | they arnt used elsewhere... |
| 18:45:00 | pixelma | but you can still use it in an sbs |
| 18:45:19 | JdGordon | which is why I suggestesd my suggestion |
| 18:45:31 | JdGordon | but leaving them in the core is a waste, its just clutter |
| 18:45:49 | pixelma | I mean code your sbs in a way the user has a choice |
| 18:46:06 | pixelma | without having to make his own sbs |
| 18:46:21 | Hillshum | a = class() should make a an instance of class class correct? |
| 18:46:37 | Hillshum | Wait a sec. Wrong channel |
| 18:47:44 | pixelma | JdGordon: I don't see why those settings need to be removed, they could serve the same purpose as they do now |
| 18:48:38 | kugel | JdGordon: it is totally unrelated |
| 18:49:00 | kugel | read the task's title and explain how modifying a option_screen() call is related |
| 18:49:31 | JdGordon | they take up useless space in the menus, and binary... my suggestion was to have a seperate file in with the wps's which has a listing of all the different config options different skins might have... so a theme could add any customisability they wanted. The suer would just need to change the skins config file (one file shared by all) |
| 18:49:56 | JdGordon | kugel: ok, then I'll go and remove that line in svn then |
| 18:50:08 | kugel | keen on introducing bugs? |
| 18:50:09 | JdGordon | although I thought you meant the rest of the viewport.c changes |
| 18:50:35 | JdGordon | as much as I'd love to continue this.. i have to get to work |
| 18:51:31 | kugel | change some option in pictureflow in a build with that change if you want to know what happens |
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| 18:51:59 | mc2739 | JdGordon: there seems to be a problem with the classic_statusbar bmp files - they load in gimp, but not Rockbox or windows |
| 18:52:38 | Rand_Althor | Any chance that RB will one day compile in Visual Studio? |
| 18:52:49 | kugel | I'm sure you changed much more unrelated code, I haven't looked it in detail because it's mixed with #if 0'd which is confusing |
| 18:54:25 | AlexP | Rand_Althor: Does visual studio let you compile for other archs? e.g. SRM, Coldfire, sh, mips? |
| 18:54:31 | AlexP | *ARM |
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| 18:55:06 | Rand_Althor | I don't know. I'm thinking about buying it. |
| 18:55:19 | AlexP | I very much doubt it does |
| 18:55:53 | AlexP | Personally I would use the free open source tools that exist and are know to do the job |
| 18:56:01 | AlexP | *known |
| 18:56:17 | JdGordon | Rand_Althor: wait for VS2010 :) |
| 18:56:25 | JdGordon | but no, rockbox likely wont ever work with it |
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| 18:56:47 | JdGordon | mc2739: I may have saved them in the wrong format.. although they work in the sim |
| 18:57:05 | JdGordon | or oyu got a corrupted file?> |
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| 18:57:37 | pixelma | JdGordon: having options without them being settable through the menu isn't nice and I thought we agreed that this isn't wante |
| 18:57:38 | pixelma | d |
| 18:58:27 | JdGordon | this is different |
| 18:58:33 | JdGordon | back in 30 |
| 18:58:44 | pixelma | I don't think so |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:02:39 | mc2739 | JdGordon: sorry, maybe I did have a bad copy, they seem to be ok now |
| 19:13:37 | Bob_C | Rand_Author:if by "compile from" i.e. edit in VS then launch build tools then yes. I worked with a setup like that once |
| 19:21:42 | AlexP | edit source seems quite a way from compile to me |
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| 19:37:35 | JdGordon| | pixelma: yes it was agreed that settings shouldnt be available if they arnt in the menus, but what I'm thinking would allow any skin to create their own settings, named whatever they want, meaning anything they want.. which is imbossible to put in the menus |
| 19:38:30 | Hillshum | They could make their own? |
| 19:39:08 | linuxstb | You mean a skin author can create a setting as part of the skin? |
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| 19:39:55 | JdGordon| | yes |
| 19:40:23 | JdGordon| | I dont know how useful it actually is though |
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| 19:43:26 | evilnick_B | Is this (from the D2 Wiki) still accurate? "NOTE: Newer D2+ hardware revisions use an updated power management chip, and some functionality is not yet implemented on these players (eg. touchscreen support)." |
| 19:44:17 | Hillshum | evilnick_B: The first part is accurate |
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| 19:45:14 | evilnick_B | So the touchscreen will work on ALL D2+s? |
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| 19:45:58 | pixelma | JdGordon: I can't even imagine how that would work - code wise as well as for the user |
| 19:46:21 | pixelma | evilnick_B: I think the forum has some more details about it |
| 19:46:35 | JdGordon| | code wise you mean in the skin? |
| 19:47:08 | JdGordon| | %?Ss|my setting name|<option 1|option 2|option 3|....> |
| 19:47:22 | pixelma | in the skin as well as "behind the scenes" |
| 19:47:22 | JdGordon| | in the settings file it would be "my setting name: 2" |
| 19:47:35 | evilnick_B | pixelma: Thanking you |
| 19:47:45 | JdGordon| | dont you worry about blank... let me worry about blank :D |
| 19:48:14 | pixelma | I can't imagine currently that it will not confuse users |
| 19:48:19 | JdGordon| | I agree its not nice, and the only case I can tihnk of that would use it is the icon/text stuff for the classic bar |
| 19:49:39 | pixelma | so remove an easy setting and replace it with something possibly more complicated and confusing? (putting it a little harsher but) |
| 19:50:41 | JdGordon| | I dont really mind leaving them in.. but the people that scream blue bloody murder when a new patch adds a couple hundred bytes bin size, but then want this to stay.... |
| 19:51:54 | JdGordon| | also, at least half the targets wont use these ever because the default cabbie theme doesnt display the bar |
| 19:52:12 | pixelma | ? |
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| 19:55:02 | JdGordon| | which part of that was the ? directed at? |
| 19:55:55 | pixelma | why you think the default cabbiev2 doesn't display "the bar" (which bar) |
| 19:56:31 | * | JdGordon| is going to get in trouble for rmemebering wrong isnt me? |
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| 19:57:16 | JdGordon| | the bar being the classic statusbar... |
| 19:57:29 | pixelma | if I remember correctly it was agreed on that cabbiev2 won't touch the user setting there, and the default is on I believe |
| 19:57:52 | JdGordon| | oh? bah |
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| 20:00 |
| 20:00:28 | pixelma | also, as I said - you can still offer an sbs that shows either a graphic or the number |
| 20:00:29 | kugel | Unhelpful: it freezes in settings_list.c the first time |
| 20:01:47 | pixelma | JdGordon: which reminds me... I still don't understand why you stopped implementing %mv into cabbiev2 after converting the Clip's wps... ;) |
| 20:02:20 | JdGordon| | because I'm a lazy bugger and only did it on the clip because thats the one I happened to be using at the time and wanted it |
| 20:03:14 | kugel | why do you want to remove volume/battery display? |
| 20:03:32 | JdGordon| | oh for crying out loud! I DONT! I'M NOT! |
| 20:03:53 | pixelma | he only wants to remove the setting to chose between graphical and numerical display |
| 20:04:00 | kugel | I mean that |
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| 20:06:44 | pixelma | I don't understand that either, at least it's unrelated to removing the hard-coded statusbar |
| 20:06:50 | n1s | that setting is a bit out of place when you have proper skins imo |
| 20:07:56 | pixelma | I don't think that it has to do with "proper skins" - you can still offer the user both ways of displaying in your "proper" skin, designed how you want it |
| 20:10:00 | pixelma | I find most - if not all - pure graphical battery displays I've seen so far too coarse (classical statusbar is an edge case with something like 15 steps or so and I still use numerical there) |
| 20:10:09 | kugel | n1s: I don't think so. In contrary, proper skins can use %St to react nicely on user settings |
| 20:10:11 | pixelma | just as an example |
| 20:10:12 | n1s | pixelma: yes, but why should that one detail have a setting while other things don't |
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| 20:10:39 | pixelma | n1s: can you give an example? |
| 20:10:52 | n1s | kugel: my point is not that it's useless or won't work it's that it's arbitrary and out of place |
| 20:10:53 | kugel | a sbs version of the current statusbar can implement the current way of showing volume and battery (depending on the setting) using %St |
| 20:12:03 | kugel | my point is that it's removing an existing "feature". I mean I don't really care about this two settings anyway |
| 20:12:13 | kugel | I think I never even changed those |
| 20:13:44 | n1s | pixelma: well theoretically most things in a skin could be modifiable with settings |
| 20:14:28 | pixelma | can't imagine one currently which doesn't have a setting already |
| 20:14:46 | n1s | I don't care that much about it and i don't agree with the argument to keep existing features, if we can add stuff we should be able to remove stuff |
| 20:16:50 | n1s | we could add enable/disable for stuff like peakmeter and aa |
| 20:19:55 | * | pixelma remembers hearing a story about the removal and readding of the pointer selector... ;) |
| 20:20:38 | * | Bagder likes a good story ;-) |
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| 20:23:09 | JdGordon| | It doesnt make sense that we bloat the menus with settings that most people wont use |
| 20:23:39 | kugel | Unhelpful: in lcd_init() too |
| 20:24:18 | pixelma | JdGordon: where do you get that knowledge from how many people use it? |
| 20:25:22 | JdGordon| | themes.rocbkox.org :) |
| 20:25:41 | JdGordon| | rasher: can you run a script to see how many themes on the site disable the statusbar? |
| 20:26:06 | rasher | Not.. readily |
| 20:26:16 | JdGordon| | and even those that done disbale it, I bet you only a very tiny percentage would change those two settings |
| 20:26:40 | pixelma | I don't think it tells much as it is currently a setting that is easy to change by the user without "destroying" the theme |
| 20:27:53 | pixelma | and a setting I would not put in a theme so that the user can keep his settings |
| 20:28:50 | kugel | JdGordon|: you aren't serious are you? |
| 20:28:53 | pixelma | mine would set the battery display to numerical then |
| 20:29:16 | kugel | You are editing the task title just to make random unrelated changes? |
| 20:29:16 | JdGordon| | kugel: right this very moment? or some time in the future? or past? |
| 20:29:41 | | Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:31:10 | * | kugel wonders when we established an exception in the rule of 1 change per patch. |
| 20:31:44 | * | JdGordon| wonders where kugel got the impression that that task was supposed to be commit ready? |
| 20:32:25 | kugel | you're putting words in my mouth |
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| 20:32:31 | JdGordon| | no im not |
| 20:32:51 | kugel | I've not said/implied that I think it's commit ready or any of that sort |
| 20:32:57 | JdGordon| | the only reason you would be complaining is because you think it could be ready for commit! |
| 20:33:09 | JdGordon| | or you think I tinhk its ready |
| 20:33:21 | JdGordon| | or I tihnk you think i think they think its ready |
| 20:33:45 | kugel | I'm complaining because you make it difficult for me to look at/review the patch |
| 20:33:48 | JdGordon| | or you tihnk i tihnk you tihnk they think i think you think donkeys think |
| 20:35:15 | | Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@70.33.8.114) |
| 20:35:35 | kugel | and because you're sneaking in random changes unrelated to the actual purpose of the patch, but I assume you just magically avoid that by changing the task title |
| 20:36:04 | JdGordon| | I changed the name because of what you said in irc 90min ago |
| 20:36:20 | JdGordon| | the only reason its there is because I'm not a git |
| 20:36:30 | JdGordon| | user and tend to lose patches |
| 20:37:15 | GodEater | what an awesome place to accidentally hit enter ;) |
| 20:37:58 | pixelma | JdGordon: you could make two patches out of it |
| 20:38:27 | kugel | if that means that you're going to extend the task in order to upload several, nicely separated patches, that might be fine |
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| 20:41:27 | kugel | JdGordon|: what other benefits does knowing the default vp dimensions at parsing time have? |
| 20:42:47 | kugel | Unhelpful: it also freezes in create_thread() :S |
| 20:43:50 | CIA-85 | New commit by bluebrother (r23407): Improve a few debug logger messages. |
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| 20:45:00 | kugel | does anyone know where our size_t is defined or are we using the host system's definion (I tried greppin already) |
| 20:47:13 | gevaerts | kugel: include/sys/types.h |
| 20:47:23 | * | gevaerts also used grep :) |
| 20:47:39 | gevaerts | firmware/... of course |
| 20:47:55 | kugel | I didn't know that file exists! Thanks |
| 20:48:18 | kugel | gevaerts: yea, I just said I tried it, not that I did it correctly :) |
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| 21:02:20 | JdGordon| | kugel: I dont know... right now pb might be the only thing affected, but its not a far stretch to assume other will have that problem... there is no hard doing it |
| 21:02:27 | JdGordon| | the load order isnt a big deal |
| 21:03:39 | kugel | well, an event is send when the UI vp changed, the WPS could easily have an handler and refresh its default vp at any time |
| 21:04:34 | kugel | without introducing a bogus load dependency |
| 21:04:35 | * | bertrik made himself a splash with rounded edges :) |
| 21:05:54 | JdGordon| | when the ui vp is changed after loading a setting? or if something forces it to change? |
| 21:06:11 | kugel | both |
| 21:06:44 | JdGordon| | ok, the first is acceptable.. I dont tinhk the second is |
| 21:06:50 | gevaerts | bertrik: commit! |
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| 21:07:18 | kugel | it would guarantee that the WPS always has the viewport which the previous list was drawn into (although there's no list from where you can go to the wps and which overrides the UI vp) |
| 21:07:39 | kugel | i.e. consistency! |
| 21:07:53 | kugel | didn't you want that, have lists and WPS really use the same UI vp? |
| 21:08:04 | JdGordon| | well hang on... when would a screen ever change the ui area on the fly? |
| 21:09:51 | JdGordon| | the only time I can think where this could happen is say a popup (like the splash or context menu), and then the WPS should not know about it |
| 21:10:06 | JdGordon| | of course, changing the ui area for them is the wrong way to do it |
| 21:10:24 | kugel | it's not used for pop ups |
| 21:10:30 | JdGordon| | the ui area shold only change through a sbs loading, or from a cfg load |
| 21:11:09 | kugel | the vp itself isn't changing, but there are some screens which set the ui vp pointer to a different one temporarily |
| 21:11:22 | JdGordon| | why? |
| 21:11:25 | JdGordon| | thats the wrong way to do it |
| 21:11:33 | JdGordon| | give me an example... |
| 21:11:36 | kugel | plugins mostly |
| 21:12:04 | kugel | the loader sets a different viewport |
| 21:12:14 | JdGordon| | plugins are a seperate beast, plugins shuold use the ui area directly, i.e copy the setting into their local viewport vairable |
| 21:12:27 | JdGordon| | the loader *should* set the fullscreen viewport.. thats correct |
| 21:12:30 | CIA-85 | New commit by rob (r23408): Implement dbg_save_roms for TCC780x. |
| 21:12:46 | kugel | well, the plugin loader is the only place where it's done |
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| 21:14:49 | | Part froggyman |
| 21:14:59 | kugel | and as I mentioned, I want to fix most plugins to use vps better so that won't be needed anymore |
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| 21:16:03 | JdGordon| | fine, but thats still the wrong way to do it |
| 21:16:21 | JdGordon| | plugins should be using the same viewport_get_defaultS() function that the core uses |
| 21:16:38 | kugel | that's what I'm planning to do |
| 21:16:47 | JdGordon| | the *only* thing that should actually know about the ui area is viewport.c |
| 21:16:58 | kugel | so that game menus for example show the statusbar and draw into the UI vp |
| 21:17:18 | JdGordon| | yes |
| 21:17:36 | JdGordon| | using get_defaults() or passing NULL to do_menu(), and enabling the bar |
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| 21:18:02 | JdGordon| | which goes back to me asking, why you think any screen shuold ever change the ui area? |
| 21:18:24 | kugel | I don't think any screen should ever do that |
| 21:18:48 | JdGordon| | great, so then why would the WPS need to be told the area chaged, except for when a new sbs or cfg ios loaded? |
| 21:19:31 | kugel | heh |
| 21:19:54 | kugel | do you remember that you were largely against reparsing all skins on loading a single oen? |
| 21:20:27 | kugel | if we ever happen to have it said way, the sbs is going to touch the UI vp, while the WPS wouldn't notice because it's not reparsed |
| 21:20:51 | kugel | what you do is simply introducing a load dependency which can be avoided entirely |
| 21:21:35 | JdGordon| | kugel: you havnt noticed by now that I have no problem changing horses mid race if I'm backing the wrong one?! |
| 21:22:13 | JdGordon| | it makes sense that the ui area and sbs are loaded first if they control other skins! I cont see why you tihnk load dependancies are an issue |
| 21:22:16 | kugel | not to mention that parsing the UI vp setting in a function which is meant to only load skins is a bad hack anyway |
| 21:23:25 | kugel | and load dependencies are bad, they are confusing, error prone and inconsistent |
| 21:24:10 | kugel | while letting the skins that really depend on UI vp know when the UI vp changed is perfectly clean |
| 21:24:16 | JdGordon| | bad - no, confusing - maybe without documentation, error prone - not if you follow said doocs, inconsistant - not at all |
| 21:24:32 | JdGordon| | then they should *fully* reload when it changes |
| 21:25:10 | kugel | the event handler could do that, or just do what's really needed |
| 21:25:42 | JdGordon| | you dont know whats really needed... |
| 21:26:19 | kugel | I surely do |
| 21:26:21 | JdGordon| | there is already a big dependancy chain on themes... 1) init skin buffer, 2) init ui vp 3) init sbs 4) other skins... thats not a problem |
| 21:26:21 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:26:42 | JdGordon| | that deterministic... using events is random |
| 21:30:52 | | Quit n1s (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 21:32:14 | kugel | fine, defend your band aid, I don't think it's the correct way to do this (btw, didn't you say the event is accaptable some lines up?) |
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| 21:33:41 | kugel | the event is much more elegant to notify any parts of the code on changes on what they really depend on |
| 21:33:43 | | Quit parafin (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:33:59 | JdGordon| | I have no idea what you are takling about anymore |
| 21:34:02 | JdGordon| | what band aid? |
| 21:34:18 | JdGordon| | events are good WHEN THERE IS NO DEPENDANCY |
| 21:34:20 | JdGordon| | there is here |
| 21:34:40 | kugel | what? |
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| 21:35:21 | JdGordon| | good... now neither of us know what we are arguing... |
| 21:35:36 | kugel | I don't understand that bit: "events are good WHEN THERE IS NO DEPENDANCY" |
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| 21:37:10 | kugel | all your changes to settings_apply_skins() are band aid IMO |
| 21:38:00 | JdGordon| | oh you're talking about the patch again... |
| 21:38:29 | kugel | the whole time |
| 21:39:14 | kugel | I'm also unsure why you're messing with viewportmanager_set_statusbar() in there |
| 21:39:34 | kugel | viewportmanager_theme_changed(THEME_STATUSBAR) does that for you (have you looked at that function?) |
| 21:40:38 | JdGordon| | I cant look at code now... |
| 21:40:48 | JdGordon| | but iirc the if for that is empty with my change |
| 21:41:14 | JdGordon| | viewportmanager is doing too much imo anyway.... sbs isnt really part of the viewportmanager |
| 21:42:55 | kugel | ah, and I thought you went back to the current api as you said |
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| 21:48:47 | JdGordon| | :< that said, for simplicity I dont have major objections to the current linking |
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| 21:54:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:54:44 | kugel | JdGordon|: I'm not sure why you're rushing the api changes that way. I'd welcome if we can just focus on getting rid of the classic statusbar now, and discuss and concentrate on changing the api when it's finally dead |
| 21:56:12 | JdGordon| | i didnt change the api |
| 21:56:19 | JdGordon| | unless i uploaded the wrong diff? |
| 21:56:50 | | Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-174-097-130-131.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:58:14 | JdGordon| | if you can remove the old bar without doing any other changes then go for it.. imo its easier to do it all in one hit |
| 21:58:49 | kugel | well, viewportmanager_[get|set]_statusbar are back compared to the previous patches, but there's a lot of (to me) unrelated - lines in viewport.c |
| 21:59:54 | JdGordon| | ok... the removal of the statusbar is actually a side effect of other viewport changes |
| 22:00 |
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| 22:00:59 | kugel | huh? |
| 22:01:02 | JdGordon| | but once again.. the damn patch isnt ready for commital.. so looking at it and doing a critical review is a waste of time |
| 22:02:39 | kugel | to me the alternative looks like you continue that way I and I complain even more at the end, which also is a big time waste |
| 22:03:40 | * | kugel wants to know why eabi breaks settings_reset() |
| 22:12:21 | amiconn | JdGordon|: I don't think your settings-in-wps idea will work well |
| 22:12:57 | amiconn | What happens if you change the theme and then save settings? The settings you have defined for your previous theme will be gone. |
| 22:13:18 | amiconn | There is no way for the settings code to know which settings a theme has without that theme being loaded |
| 22:17:16 | JdGordon| | amiconn: no, the setting would be saved into a completly sepearte text file under .rockbox/wps |
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| 22:22:25 | * | amiconn doesn't understand what kugel means when talking about "knowing the dimensions of the default vp" |
| 22:22:44 | amiconn | The default vp is fullscreen, and those dimensions are always known... |
| 22:23:24 | kugel | the default vp of the wps |
| 22:23:38 | amiconn | There is only one default vp per display |
| 22:24:22 | kugel | the wps has an implied non-configurable vp |
| 22:25:29 | * | amiconn would probably call that ui vp or wps root vp |
| 22:25:48 | | Join tomers [0] (n=chatzill@bzq-84-109-85-100.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 22:25:53 | CIA-85 | New commit by rob (r23409): Make the TCC78x HW debug screen yield by including a button wait timeout. |
| 22:25:55 | JdGordon| | amiconn: the default viewport is the area not being used by anything else.. yes its possibly badly named, but it is not nesecarily the full sceen |
| 22:26:28 | tomers | Any comment reharding "FS #10728 - Cowon D2: Add support for D2 in rbutil" ? I think I would like to commit it soon.... |
| 22:26:31 | | Join bubsy [0] (n=bubsy@94.139.72.137) |
| 22:26:38 | * | amiconn thinks we should try to improve naming so that it's not ambiguous |
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| 22:31:51 | CIA-85 | New commit by tomers (r23410): FS #10728 - Cowon D2: Add support for D2 in rbutil |
| 22:32:01 | kugel | wasn't there a way to use e200tool to run code directly? |
| 22:32:43 | JdGordon| | amiconn: well, the name "default vp" is only used internally, I think in one #define, otherwise if its only me and kugel arguing we know what it refers to |
| 22:32:59 | JdGordon| | but yes, viewport is full of badly named functions :) |
| 22:34:09 | Matsy | Wow, this project is amazing. |
| 22:34:17 | | Quit esperegu (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:34:23 | andrewRB | ^^ insightful +5 |
| 22:34:30 | JdGordon| | Troll -1 |
| 22:34:40 | Matsy | Uhuh? |
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| 22:37:14 | Bagder | tomers: I don't think bootloader/cowon/d2.bin is a good path for the d2 file |
| 22:37:22 | Bagder | and I haven't seen any discussions on that |
| 22:37:26 | Bagder | so I rather not move it there |
| 22:37:43 | tomers | bagder: What do you think is the best location? |
| 22:38:16 | shotofadds | I suggested /bootloader/cowon/d2/bootloader.bin or somesuch instead |
| 22:39:07 | tomers | shotofadds: Yes, you did that in http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10728#comment33225 |
| 22:39:12 | | Join esperegu [0] (n=quassel@145.116.15.244) |
| 22:39:40 | tomers | bagder: Do you accept shotofadds' suggestion? |
| 22:39:45 | Bagder | I think we could have the cowon and iaudio stuff in the same root dir |
| 22:39:55 | | Join AleMaxx [0] (n=enforcer@f053011039.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:40:10 | shotofadds | Bagder: under cowon/ hopefully ;-) |
| 22:40:11 | tomers | All cowons seems to be labeled as iriver, except the d2 |
| 22:40:25 | Bagder | I can accept any suggestion, I just want to have it discussed properly first |
| 22:40:32 | tomers | AFAIK, cowon is the company, iriver is the product line |
| 22:40:35 | Bagder | iaudio you mean |
| 22:40:47 | andrewRB | tomers: you mean iaudio? |
| 22:40:48 | tomers | s/iriver/iaudio/ :-) |
| 22:40:49 | andrewRB | oh. ^^ |
| 22:40:58 | shotofadds | tomers: yes, and the d2 is not part of that product line so doesn't have iAudio in the name |
| 22:41:02 | Bagder | but yes, most are named iaudio but I believe there are a few others (non-rockbox) models under the cowon brand too |
| 22:41:27 | Bagder | so yes, the root dir would then most suitably be called cowon actually |
| 22:41:32 | tomers | So /bootloader/cowon/d2/bootloader.bin is ok? |
| 22:41:44 | linuxstb | Bagder: I agree it makes sense to put cowon and iaudio stuff together. Maybe move things into cowon and setup a "iaudio -> cowon" symlink for compatibility? |
| 22:42:02 | Bagder | that's not a bad idea |
| 22:42:08 | shotofadds | or /bootloader/cowon/bootloader-d2.bin to follow another inconsistent convention :p |
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| 22:42:29 | Bagder | I prefer /bootloader/cowon/d2/[something] |
| 22:42:32 | tomers | the symlink should be removed when the next version is released |
| 22:43:14 | * | shotofadds still thinks there should be some kind of warning in the installer if it's not aware of the "SD card caveat" |
| 22:43:17 | AleMaxx | in what way are jz47xx and cc1600 similar? Im only asking since I read some things on the internet. Im aware that the first uses a MIPS code while the latter is ARM powered. |
| 22:43:19 | linuxstb | shotofadds: I think we should try and avoid using short names like "d2" - so bootloader-cowond2.bin |
| 22:43:28 | AleMaxx | code/core |
| 22:43:33 | tomers | Maybe we should rename all files according to a convention we decide, and set code accordingly, once and for all. Symlink can be used to provide backward compitabilityu |
| 22:44:02 | AlexP | On a vaguely related note (i.e. not really), is there are reason why the beast isn't unstable now? It has a released linux and windows beastpatcher and bootloader, and install instructions in the manual |
| 22:44:23 | linuxstb | AlexP: I was going to ask you that - were you the person who added instructions to the manual? |
| 22:44:30 | * | rasher points once again to rasher.dk/rockbox/targetnames.php">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/targetnames.php |
| 22:44:31 | tomers | shotofadds: I agree about the warning. Needs some work though |
| 22:44:39 | AlexP | linuxstb: yes |
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| 22:45:17 | linuxstb | shotofadds: So what does a bootloader build currently call the D2 bootloader? |
| 22:45:37 | shotofadds | bootloader.bin, so I reckon the path should be bootlaoder/cowon/d2/bootloader.bin |
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| 22:45:50 | shotofadds | without the typo, obviously :) |
| 22:46:16 | Bagder | I put it there now |
| 22:46:20 | JdGordon| | keep the typo! |
| 22:46:35 | Bagder | haha |
| 22:46:38 | Matsy | Oh, I am amazed. I joined this channel because of some discussion in January 2006, and most of the users of the chat are still here. |
| 22:46:56 | Matsy | Some devotion ;p |
| 22:47:05 | JdGordon| | yep, no matter how har we try... we just cant get rid of them! |
| 22:47:07 | Bagder | Matsy: or just lack of real lives ;-) |
| 22:47:18 | AlexP | Sad but true |
| 22:47:23 | linuxstb | shotofadds: I get a rockbox.d2... |
| 22:47:42 | shotofadds | linuxstb: that's just to throw you off the scent :p |
| 22:47:44 | linuxstb | shotofadds: "bootloader.bin" is the binary, which is then processed by "boottool" |
| 22:47:56 | shotofadds | it really shouldn't be processed by anything |
| 22:47:59 | tomers | bagder: Are you going to fix rbutilqt.ini, or should I do it? |
| 22:48:00 | linuxstb | If that's not the real bootloader people should use, then change boottool to "cp" |
| 22:48:08 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 22:48:14 | linuxstb | And "bootoutput" (IIRC) to "bootloader-cowond2.bin" |
| 22:48:17 | Matsy | Bagder: Haha, I certainly don't hope that's the reason ;o |
| 22:48:18 | kugel | hm, /me thouht he could use e200tool recover |
| 22:48:30 | shotofadds | linuxstb: I think boottool *is* cp, it's just using the wrong filename ATM |
| 22:48:52 | linuxstb | shotofadds: No, it's scramble |
| 22:48:52 | Matsy | It would be safe to ask a question here, then. ;p |
| 22:49:16 | Bagder | tomers: please go ahead, I'm actually stuck somewhere completely different... |
| 22:49:29 | tomers | bagder: OK |
| 22:49:30 | Bagder | Matsy: fire away and we'll find out |
| 22:49:33 | Matsy | I am trying to debug the firmware of a device that runs on a ARM720t processor. |
| 22:49:34 | shotofadds | linuxstb: really? I'm trying to think what possible use that would have |
| 22:49:43 | linuxstb | shotofadds: Uploading it directly with tcctool? |
| 22:50:02 | * | linuxstb guesses this was copied from the logik dax... |
| 22:50:15 | tomers | bagder: Have you move the file? I can't see it |
| 22:50:18 | Matsy | Yet, I've tried IDA to do it for me. But, it doesn't seem to want to disassemble it. |
| 22:50:25 | shotofadds | no, you need to build a different version if you want to do that (something to do with the dual-boot, but it's so long ago I forget) |
| 22:50:34 | Bagder | tomers: and you check the download master server? |
| 22:51:01 | Bagder | Matsy: then you probably do it wrong, as IDA can indeed disassemble ARM code, both normal and thumb |
| 22:51:03 | linuxstb | Bagder: What did you change it to? I thought the discussion was still ongoing... |
| 22:51:08 | Matsy | Yeah, exactly what I thought. |
| 22:51:13 | tomers | bagder: Checked http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ |
| 22:51:13 | | Quit HBK- () |
| 22:51:13 | Matsy | It normally goes perfectly fine. |
| 22:51:18 | Bagder | yeah, I'm ready to move it again ;-) |
| 22:51:22 | shotofadds | linuxstb: the D2 is happy with any raw binary through tcctool anyway - the scramble stuff is only necessary if you want to use the OF to flash it. |
| 22:51:37 | Matsy | However, I don't see ARM720T in that list. Does IDA even support ARM7? |
| 22:51:50 | Bagder | tomers: that's one of the mirror servers, they sync once per hour... |
| 22:51:56 | saratoga | ARM720T is ARMv4 |
| 22:52:02 | linuxstb | shotofadds: Ah yes, I think the DAX was the same. But anyway, I would vote for "bootloader-cowond2.bin", so it's fully self-contained. |
| 22:52:12 | saratoga | which everythign supports |
| 22:52:16 | Matsy | Hmm. |
| 22:52:45 | Bagder | Matsy: I know (many) people have used it on ARM720* chips |
| 22:52:49 | AleMaxx | Matsy, its the first one in the listbox |
| 22:52:56 | Matsy | Hmm. |
| 22:53:03 | Matsy | My firmware file might be corrupted then. |
| 22:53:16 | Bagder | or it isn't code that you look at ;-) |
| 22:53:18 | tomers | bagder: Is there a direct link to the master download server? |
| 22:53:22 | Matsy | Yeah, or that. |
| 22:53:23 | Llorean | JdGordon|: Instead of that "custom options" why not just allow users to define a variable or few at the beginning of the WPS. Since the custom options would require users to edit a file, why not just have that file be the .wps? One or two quick edits to the first two lines and they get their customized layout. |
| 22:53:41 | AlexP | linuxstb: So can you think of anything holding it (the beast) back? |
| 22:54:08 | Bagder | tomers: I try not to expose that, to prevent "people" from going there directly ;-) but yeah (haxx [dot] rockbox [dot] org) |
| 22:54:24 | shotofadds | linuxstb: yes, I agree with the naming. I wonder if tomers,Bagder are listening :) |
| 22:54:34 | * | Bagder will adapt |
| 22:54:34 | shotofadds | bootloader-cowond2.bin, that is. |
| 22:54:38 | AleMaxx | Matsy, check it in a hexeditor with column length multiple of eight, there should be rows with a lot of 0xEx, if these are not on dword boundarys you need to align that |
| 22:55:03 | AleMaxx | multiple of 4 is of course fine too |
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| 22:55:18 | JdGordon| | Llorean: thats like what I've done in classic_statusbar.sbs but the problem with that is (especially for shippd themes), is they get overwritten.. also if all themes used the same settings then you would set them once and they would instantly work for every skin |
| 22:55:24 | tomers | shotofadds: Listening. bootloader/cowon/d2/bootloader-cowond2.bin ? |
| 22:55:37 | Bagder | exactly |
| 22:55:40 | shotofadds | yes, check the server... |
| 22:55:44 | shotofadds | it's there already |
| 22:55:52 | JdGordon| | the bigger problem is the skin engine cant handle these variable thingies in the parser... thats maybe something to add though |
| 22:56:15 | tomers | In rbuti.ini, I set bootloadername=cowon/d2/bootloader-cowond2.bin - is that OK? |
| 22:56:18 | AleMaxx | and I meant row length |
| 22:57:14 | shotofadds | tomers: what does platform id mean in rbutil.ini? Is it supposed to be related to the id in tools/confiure? |
| 22:57:19 | Matsy | Hmm. |
| 22:57:21 | linuxstb | shotofadds: We should change tools/configure (and the build system so it checks for bootloader-cowond2.bin as the output file)... |
| 22:57:29 | * | shotofadds was about to do that |
| 22:57:33 | Matsy | I can't find any rows with a lot of 0xEx entries. |
| 22:57:45 | AleMaxx | I meant columns |
| 22:58:03 | AleMaxx | basically there should be a lot of dwords beginning with 0xE |
| 22:58:07 | Matsy | Oh, right |
| 22:58:10 | Matsy | I found a piece |
| 22:58:18 | Matsy | Every 4 bytes ends with 0xEx |
| 22:58:29 | tomers | shotofadds: Platform id where? |
| 22:58:42 | AleMaxx | Matsy, then its probably good arm code |
| 22:58:47 | Matsy | Yet. |
| 22:58:56 | shotofadds | tomers: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/rbutil/rbutilqt/rbutil.ini?r1=23409;r2=23410;pathrev=23410 |
| 22:59:02 | Matsy | That only applies for a certain piece of the binary file I am looking at. |
| 22:59:04 | AleMaxx | Matsy, when youre in IDA you need to hit C, you know that right? |
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| 22:59:07 | Matsy | The rest doesn't seem to follow that rule. |
| 22:59:10 | Matsy | Yeah, I do. |
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| 23:00 |
| 23:00:13 | tomers | shotofadds: This is what I assumed |
| 23:00:48 | * | shotofadds doesn't know, I just wondered if the number was significant anywhere |
| 23:01:18 | AleMaxx | Matsy, so these 0xEs should be on offsets 3,7,B,F |
| 23:01:46 | Matsy | Right. |
| 23:01:53 | AleMaxx | thats the case? |
| 23:02:02 | Matsy | On some parts of the binary file, yeah. |
| 23:02:16 | AlexP | What player is this for? |
| 23:02:20 | AleMaxx | then go to these offsets in the firmware and press 'c' |
| 23:02:49 | Matsy | Oh, I'll try that. |
| 23:03:01 | shotofadds | linuxstb: how is the DAX coming on, btw ;-) |
| 23:03:06 | linuxstb | shotofadds: I think you need to ask domonoky1 or bluebroth3r |
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| 23:03:16 | linuxstb | (re: the platform ID) |
| 23:03:26 | tomers | shotofadds: I think it is actually like the mapping you can see at ./tools/release/bins.pl +136 |
| 23:03:42 | linuxstb | shotofadds: Waiting for some talented person to finish it... |
| 23:04:37 | * | domonoky1 wakes up.. |
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| 23:05:44 | Matsy | Hahahaha, AleMaxx |
| 23:05:44 | Matsy | Thanks ;p |
| 23:06:20 | Matsy | :< |
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| 23:08:02 | CIA-85 | New commit by rob (r23411): Update the Cowon D2 bootloader binary name |
| 23:08:13 | Matsy | AleMaxx |
| 23:08:14 | tomers | linuxstb: This FS stood there for two days... I got many comments and fixed them all, then waited for couple of days without any further remarks from anybody |
| 23:08:19 | Matsy | Everything works like a blast, now ;) |
| 23:08:39 | tomers | s/two days/one day/ |
| 23:08:47 | linuxstb | tomers: Sure, but there's no point asking for final comments, then only waiting a couple of minutes... |
| 23:08:49 | CIA-85 | New commit by rob (r23412): Change the D2 bootloader output filename to bootloader-cowond2.bin |
| 23:09:16 | * | shotofadds didn't see the final patch til after it was committed... but that's my fault |
| 23:09:39 | | Join HBK [0] (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:10:36 | tomers | linuxstb: That was just for making sure nobody had 'something in his stomach'. If there was some serious comment, I would expect it to be written in the FS item. Do you think I should have asked everybody in the chat personally? |
| 23:10:44 | linuxstb | tomers: But yes, I did have chance to comment, but hadn't got round to it. I didn't like a lot of your changes to mktccboot, such as using the "OF" abbreviation in lots of places instead of the existing "original firmware". |
| 23:11:34 | AlexP | tomers: His point isn't that you should ask everybody, but that if you ask for comments it is pointless if you then only wait two minutes. |
| 23:11:41 | | Quit TheSeven (Nick collision from services.) |
| 23:11:44 | AlexP | People don't stare constantly at their screens |
| 23:11:53 | AleMaxx | Matsy, congratulations :-) |
| 23:11:57 | | Join The_Seven [0] (n=theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 23:12:05 | domonoky1 | how this rbutil d2 patch handle the sd/bootloader on nand thing ? |
| 23:12:09 | | Nick The_Seven is now known as TheSeven (n=theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 23:12:10 | AlexP | People might not have seen the task, and gone to look at it when you mentioned it for instance |
| 23:12:11 | tomers | I agree with you. I should have waited longer |
| 23:12:26 | | Quit Topy44 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:12:57 | tomers | linuxstb: What variable names do you think I should fix? |
| 23:13:21 | | Quit merbanan (Success) |
| 23:13:24 | | Quit Hillshum (Operation timed out) |
| 23:13:26 | * | tomers don't know what to set in bootloaderfile (rbutil.ini) any help? |
| 23:13:29 | linuxstb | tomers: I don't really care enough for you to go back and change things. It's mainly the principle of not changing things without a good reason. |
| 23:13:40 | | Nick bertrik_ is now known as bertrik (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 23:13:48 | domonoky1 | does the user have to do anything after the d2 bootloader install ? if so, a case to BootloaderInstallBase::PostInstallHints should be added. |
| 23:14:23 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p4FE8F535.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:14:42 | tomers | linuxstb: I wanted it to be the same abbreviation as the helper function I wrote there. Nothing more. |
| 23:14:44 | shotofadds | domonoky1: yes, they need to reboot into the OF to flash it, like the iRivers |
| 23:14:54 | domonoky1 | tomers: bootloadername is the bootloader on the server. bootloaderfile is the bootloader filename on the target (if needed by the install method) |
| 23:15:25 | linuxstb | tomers: My other comment would have been about the Makefile - it seems very hard to read with the "PLAT" variable and the name MKPLATBOOT. Why did you use that? |
| 23:15:30 | | Quit HBK () |
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| 23:15:46 | shotofadds | that is the other problem: depending on the firmware version the on-target filename can be any of D2.bin, D2_N.bin, D2P.bin, D2P_N.bin... |
| 23:16:02 | tomers | domonoky1: Does the cp install method uses this value? If so, it should stay d2n.bin. |
| 23:16:28 | shotofadds | sorry, 50% right: D2N.bin and D2N_P.bin |
| 23:16:40 | pixelma | shotofadds: really reboot into the OF and chose a menuitem there or more like the other Iaudios - insert charger and if there is a file with a certain name in a certain place it'll be picked up by the Cowon loader for flashing the new bootloader? |
| 23:17:33 | tomers | linuxstb: I agree with that. I tried to work on making the mkamsboot's Makefile similar to the mktccboot's Makefile, so they could somehow be united... I created a diff and worked my way with constants to achieve similarities. I think now it's bloated with constants |
| 23:17:34 | shotofadds | pixelma: the latter, actually |
| 23:17:34 | linuxstb | tomers: Also, shouldn't mktccboot.c #include your new mktccboot.h ? |
| 23:17:35 | domonoky1 | tomers: asfar as i know, bootloaderinstalltcc.cpp should do all coping itself. |
| 23:18:11 | bluebroth3r | tomers: I'm still missing handling of the two drives issue :( |
| 23:18:43 | | Nick bluebroth3r is now known as bluebrother (n=dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) |
| 23:18:48 | | Join Topy [0] (n=Topy44@f049105061.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:18:48 | * | shotofadds is surprised not to have got any red |
| 23:18:57 | domonoky1 | tomers, shotofadds: you could use the filename of the file given by the user, as done in bootloaderinstallams.cpp |
| 23:19:01 | linuxstb | tomers: I think there's a danger of trying to unify things too much - copy/paste is bad, but sometimes unifying things just makes it too hard to read, and hence less maintainable than two copies of essentially the same thing. |
| 23:19:12 | shotofadds | domonoky1: yes, that would be the best thing |
| 23:19:40 | tomers | linuxstb: I'll fix that tomorrow. |
| 23:19:56 | * | bluebrother wonders why that patch already got in |
| 23:20:05 | shotofadds | it would also be nice to check if the device the user has plugged in can accept the filename the user has chosen |
| 23:20:12 | shotofadds | you can detect that using the USB ids |
| 23:20:50 | domonoky1 | bluebrother: i see no problem with commting a not completly working bootloader/target for rbutil, we can easily disable it if it still doesnt work completly when we make a new release. |
| 23:21:20 | shotofadds | commit early commit often, no? |
| 23:21:31 | CIA-85 | New commit by tomers (r23413): rbutil: Update bootloader name for cowon d2 |
| 23:21:50 | linuxstb | shotofadds: Depends... That could also be "post patches early, post patches often..." |
| 23:22:17 | bluebrother | shotofadds: no. It's "release early, release often". |
| 23:22:18 | shotofadds | tomers: thanks for looking into this. Do you have any other areas in mind that you want to work on> |
| 23:22:27 | linuxstb | But it's also true that most people ignore patches until they're committed... |
| 23:22:34 | bluebrother | and for work in progress I go with linuxstb |
| 23:22:35 | tomers | shotofadds: No |
| 23:22:45 | shotofadds | hehe ;) |
| 23:23:41 | bluebrother | the big problem with patches is that irc-used guys expect them to be handled fast. But that's not the case (and is unlikely to be anyway, who can monitor the tracker all day long?) |
| 23:23:49 | Ctcp | Version from freenode-connect!freenode@freenode/bot/connect |
| 23:23:53 | tomers | linuxstb: The patch went through about four iterations, and in the last day nobody comment on it, after I fixed all what was said. I thought its good enough to be committed, knowing development should continue by further patches/commits - like the two drives issue. |
| 23:24:27 | | Quit T44 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 23:24:56 | linuxstb | tomers: That's true, but a day isn't that long. I think that when you ask in IRC if a patch is OK to commit, you need at the very least need one person to say "yes, I agree", rather than just assuming that silence means agreement. |
| 23:24:59 | bluebrother | tomers: "in the last day". Great argument. May I suggest that not everybody can monitor / work on patches each day? I've had several days in a row without any time for monitoring development in the past, is this that uncommon? |
| 23:25:07 | AlexP | tomers: I think people are saying that you should have brought it up here then waited a good long time (a day isn't long) for more comments |
| 23:25:17 | * | bluebrother thinks patches should be in the tracker *at least* a week |
| 23:25:20 | * | domonoky1 thinks someone how knows the d2 bootloader install process should commit a postInstallHint() for d2 :-) |
| 23:26:15 | * | tomers I totally agree with you all. I should have had more patience. SORRY. Let's end this discussion please |
| 23:26:33 | domonoky1 | looks like only m:robe500 is missing from the unstable targets in rbutil ? |
| 23:26:46 | AlexP | domonoky1: And shortly the beast :) |
| 23:26:59 | pixelma | domonoky1: if I understand shotofadds' answer correctly it works like the other Iaudios |
| 23:27:15 | * | tomers was a bit over-motivated with the D2 install issue :-) |
| 23:27:24 | linuxstb | What about supporting everything except the bootloader install for the Beast? Do we have any existing targets like that? e.g. e200r? |
| 23:28:16 | tomers | shotofadds: I didn't get what you were suggesting (testing filename) can you explain again? |
| 23:28:22 | shotofadds | pixelma, domonoky1: the post install step is just disconnect the player and turn it on |
| 23:28:24 | domonoky1 | e200r is just unsupported in rbutil, it doesnt know a e200r target (although of course everthing exept bootloader install works) |
| 23:28:35 | shotofadds | tomers: the firmware filename differs depending on the OF version |
| 23:29:20 | domonoky1 | shotofadds: ah, then no postInstallHint() needs to used. but the filenaming should perhaps be done similar to ams. |
| 23:29:26 | shotofadds | D2 v1.x/3.x expect D2.bin, D2 v2.x/4.x expect D2N.bin. D2+ is the same, except *_P.bin |
| 23:29:35 | shotofadds | it's a mess |
| 23:29:42 | tomers | shotofadds: So some players accept *only* d2n.bin, while other accept only ___.bin (some other name) ? |
| 23:29:56 | pixelma | shotofadds: then slightly different as on the other Iaudios you have to insert the charger to push off the update |
| 23:30:20 | shotofadds | tomers: yes, you need the correct filename for the OF version that's currently on the player |
| 23:30:36 | shotofadds | (although you can flash any version by simply renaming the file) |
| 23:30:44 | shotofadds | it's all rather confusing |
| 23:30:46 | pixelma | s/as on/to |
| 23:31:13 | linuxstb | domonoky1: What I'm suggesting is that "we" add the capability to rbutil to support a target, but with bootloader installation just being a link to the manual/wiki, rather than actually doing the install. |
| 23:31:16 | shotofadds | pixelma: inserting the charger would have the same effect on the D2 as well, it's just not strictly necssary |
| 23:31:28 | domonoky1 | so we could also just add the file 4 times with all names ? :-) |
| 23:31:35 | shotofadds | or that :-) |
| 23:32:17 | tomers | shotofadds: Is there any other player install method who dynamically decides the bootloader filename according to USB ID? |
| 23:32:23 | domonoky1 | linuxstb: sounds good. could perhaps be done with a bootloaderInstallNone class :-) |
| 23:32:33 | shotofadds | tomers: actually we can't auto detect the filename based on USB ids, since all D2s use the same ID (only D2+s have different ids for different firmware versions) |
| 23:32:55 | shotofadds | aargh, just use the filename supplied by the user |
| 23:33:15 | * | shotofadds will be afk for a bit |
| 23:33:20 | linuxstb | Save 4 copies? ;) |
| 23:33:40 | bluebrother | linuxstb: that was what I intended to do for the beast for now :) |
| 23:33:46 | tomers | linuxstb: If linking to manual, you should also provide the patching tool as WIn32 binary for Windows users |
| 23:33:59 | linuxstb | "I" should? ;) |
| 23:34:12 | tomers | s/you/we/ |
| 23:34:23 | linuxstb | Which patching tool are you talking about? |
| 23:34:34 | pixelma | I believe a similar idea was discussed for the X5 and X5Vs (the ones without radio which also need a slightly different name for the firmware files and won't accept the other) |
| 23:34:38 | tomers | mk(whatever)boot and such... |
| 23:34:50 | pixelma | not sure how it is done at the moment |
| 23:34:55 | AlexP | tomers: If you mean the beast, then it is provided, and is linked in the manual... |
| 23:34:57 | linuxstb | tomers: Yes, we do. |
| 23:35:35 | linuxstb | tomers: Targets don't (or at least shouldn't...) be "unstable" without binaries on the download servers. |
| 23:37:21 | * | linuxstb is reminded that he doesn't understand what is meant by "compiled bootloader" on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TargetClassifications |
| 23:37:33 | linuxstb | (as compared to a released bootloader) |
| 23:38:18 | kugel | uhrm |
| 23:38:19 | domonoky1 | linuxstb: perhaps it means it can be a RC (or beta) bootloader |
| 23:38:40 | kugel | a EABI build apparently doesn't boot because the scrolling thead doesn't get a slot! :/ |
| 23:38:48 | * | linuxstb pings saratoga (who wrote that page...) |
| 23:39:34 | linuxstb | domonoky1: Maybe, although I'm not sure we should be making those available to end-users, especially on the targets where it's hard/impossible to recover from a bad bootloader. |
| 23:40:03 | * | linuxstb would prefer that to be changed to say "released bootloader" |
| 23:40:35 | linuxstb | domonoky1: And if we distribute them, we still need to go through most of the release process - i.e. tag it in svn so the source is easily available for that binary. |
| 23:40:36 | domonoky1 | linuxstb: for example the ams sansa long had (or still have a rc bootloader), it was pretty safe, but not declared 1.0 |
| 23:40:40 | * | tomers Got to go. Will read your posts tomorrow... |
| 23:40:41 | | Quit ender` (" We are surprised at our own versatility in being able to fail in so many different ways. -- Samuel McChord Crothers") |
| 23:40:58 | | Quit tomers ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.14/2009090216]") |
| 23:44:02 | linuxstb | domonoky1: So you're happy with the term "compiled bootloader" ? |
| 23:44:44 | domonoky1 | linuxstb: jup, barriers for unstable should be low. |
| 23:45:36 | | Join webguest51 [0] (n=4c162cc7@giant.haxx.se) |
| 23:46:05 | webguest51 | can anybody help me? i have a question |
| 23:46:12 | linuxstb | domonoky1: But releasing a bootloader is just a matter of some administrative work, rather than the state of the code. |
| 23:46:13 | domonoky1 | webguest51: just ask. |
| 23:46:23 | webguest51 | does this work for 2nd gen nano? |
| 23:46:31 | | Quit Matsy () |
| 23:46:36 | linuxstb | Yes |
| 23:46:58 | webguest51 | when i run the utility it only shows the first gen and nothing for the 2nd |
| 23:47:08 | linuxstb | webguest51: See http://www.rockbox.org for the list of supported devices, then read the manual for the installation instructions. |
| 23:47:28 | webguest51 | okay will it also tell me what it will let me do, like play movies and such? |
| 23:47:31 | linuxstb | Rockbox Utility doesn't support the 2nd gen Nano. That's stated in the manual. |
| 23:47:37 | | Join linuxguy4 [0] (n=timj@adsl-75-57-190-229.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:47:37 | domonoky1 | linuxstb: the administrative work was probably the same for the RC bootloaders (tag and put binarys to the server) it just wasnt deemed ready enough to be called "release worthy" :-) |
| 23:47:43 | | Join T44 [0] (n=Topy44@g228129018.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:47:50 | linuxstb | webguest51: What it will let you do is also described in the manual... ;) |
| 23:48:24 | | Quit webguest51 (Client Quit) |
| 23:48:38 | | Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:48:59 | linuxstb | domonoky1: If the bootloader isn't deemed release-worthy, then I wouldn't call the device unstable (and hence supported). |
| 23:49:34 | linuxstb | A 1.0 bootloader doesn't have to be perfect, just safe from bricking the device, and functional. |
| 23:49:40 | domonoky1 | linuxstb: that depends on how you define "release-worthy". |
| 23:49:43 | | Quit TopyMobile_ (Operation timed out) |
| 23:49:51 | linuxstb | "safe from bricking the device, and functional" |
| 23:50:15 | domonoky1 | linuxstb: not-bricking bootloader is of course neccesary for unstable. |
| 23:50:36 | linuxstb | domonoky1: But I think that's all I'm trying to say - if the bootloader is good enough for the target to be called unstable, then that bootloader should be released. |
| 23:50:49 | kugel | something goes REALLY wrong there |
| 23:51:37 | domonoky1 | its just that the word "released" implys much more for some people.. but who cares about them, so change it :-) |
| 23:53:47 | * | petur is looking for a manual guru |
| 23:53:51 | * | domonoky1 goes sleeping.. |
| 23:53:58 | | Quit domonoky1 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:54:04 | kugel | to illustrate the problem http://pastie.org/675992 |
| 23:54:15 | petur | "LaTeX Error: File `xcolor.sty' not found." <−− what's wrong? |
| 23:54:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:54:25 | | Join saratoga_lab [0] (i=9803c264@gateway/web/freenode/x-ombmoqbdaemgdfus) |
| 23:54:30 | saratoga_lab | "Note: Rockbox Utility does not currently support the Gigabeat S and you will therefore need to follow the manual install instructions below." |
| 23:54:45 | saratoga_lab | couldn't the automatic install section simply be omitted on the beast? |
| 23:54:51 | gevaerts | petur: try installing the latex-xcolor package |
| 23:54:52 | funman | kugel: aren't (some?) thread functions written in asm ? |
| 23:55:11 | funman | petur: you need to install the package providing xcolor |
| 23:55:15 | kugel | the two functions from the pastie are entirely C |
| 23:55:16 | linuxstb | saratoga_lab: Doesn't the manual also say that that section still contains useful information? |
| 23:55:28 | linuxstb | (the Nano2G has the same Note:) |
| 23:55:49 | funman | petur: according to apt, latex-xcolor on ubuntu |
| 23:55:53 | linuxstb | saratoga_lab: But yes, I agree that could probably be written better. |
| 23:55:58 | saratoga_lab | ah so it does |
| 23:56:13 | saratoga_lab | regardless, I think the S should be supported now |
| 23:56:27 | linuxstb | saratoga_lab: Did you see my question about your term "compiled bootloader" on the TargetClassifications page? (about 30 minutes ago in this channel) |
| 23:56:52 | saratoga_lab | linuxstb: no i haven't been following the logs today due to being in and out, i'll look now |
| 23:57:36 | saratoga_lab | linuxstb: I meant a bootloader binary that can be used without setting up the rockbox dev tools |
| 23:58:30 | | Quit linuxguy3 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 23:58:41 | saratoga_lab | i guess that would be the same as released, although for unstable I wanted a lower bar if possible for targets where the bootloader install is completely safe (AMS, etc) |
| 23:58:59 | saratoga_lab | but i don't really care about that now |
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