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| 01:29:34 | angerrsdfdsft | is there a way to install rockbox on sansa in msc mode |
| 01:30:40 | advcomp2019 | angerrsdfdsft, that is the only way to install rockbox |
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| 01:34:33 | advcomp2019 | nope.. it has to be in msc mode |
| 01:39:57 | angerrsdfdsft | how to fix a brick sansa |
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| 05:40:33 | Unhelpful | i failed @ maths. we can't do 9 levels of blending with SWAR, this will require 7 free bits between components. 5 will work fine, though. |
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| 08:46:49 | Unhelpful | kugel, amiconn: another subpixel-aa font test, now with black-on-white or white-on-black: http://www.looking-glass.us/~chshrcat/rockbox/aafonttest2.png |
| 08:50:25 | Unhelpful | the AA'd samples are two different methods for reducing the 256-level glyphs down to 4 levels. the 4-level values are then mapped to a 5-level range, so that after mixing colors division can be done with a right-shift. i think the second sample, which favors full-on or full-off a bit more, looks slightly better... either is nice enough that i think i'll get to work on trying to actually do this in RB ;) |
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| 09:43:20 | shai | I want to help with translations... but is it me, or does this look like a very length process? |
| 09:44:04 | Bagder_ | well, you need to provide translations for a fair amount of phrases. that can be lengthy, yes |
| 09:44:08 | Bagder_ | how else would it work? |
| 09:46:33 | shai | Well... I do Gallery2 translations and its been setup in such a way, that translating is just as easy as going to Setting -> Start Translation (approx.) and it'll show you English text on the left, and a space on the right to translate. You put in the word/sentence/code on the right, and click save (or was it update?). |
| 09:47:38 | pixelma | shai: I think rasher's translation page could be a great help for you then (basically a web frontend). Which languag do you want to help translating? |
| 09:47:53 | shai | Hebrew |
| 09:48:39 | shai | I found lots of English text that needs translating and other Hebrew words that don't really say the correct meaning in the context of which they were meant for |
| 09:49:02 | Bagder_ | rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/?cmd=edit&lang=hebrew">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/?cmd=edit&lang=hebrew |
| 09:49:26 | shai | I saw that page... and just noticed that link to Rasher's page |
| 09:49:52 | shai | As for the "Translations status" saying 0 0 0 for Hebrew, that's way outdated... like it says "As of 26 Aug 2008" |
| 09:50:55 | Bagder_ | rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/ says "4 months ago" for hebrew |
| 09:51:09 | bertrik | AFAIK there has been recent hebrew translation activity by tomers |
| 09:51:55 | shai | Yea, tomers and I know each other... small country. |
| 09:51:58 | bertrik | October 24th 2009 was the last hebrew update |
| 09:52:20 | shai | s/country/state/ |
| 09:52:48 | pixelma | 0 0 0 for Hebrew is from the wiki and that page isn't updated automatically, someone has to do it manually (and didn't for a while) |
| 09:53:19 | shai | Indeed. |
| 09:53:49 | pixelma | I think that even the status table on rasher's site is a bit outdated (or I missed something) |
| 09:54:54 | shai | How much text do you guys think I'll find to be hard-coded and untranslatable? |
| 09:55:41 | Bagder_ | not very much |
| 09:55:50 | Bagder_ | we have been translating rockbox for years |
| 09:56:24 | shai | And if I do find and report it... would it get fixed quickly (in a reasonable time frame)? |
| 09:57:31 | shai | I love QA ... don't get me wrong ... and tomers knows me and how much I do .. but if there is something I don't like in QA, is pushing on the gas in nutral. |
| 09:58:00 | shai | neutral* |
| 09:58:31 | n1s | reported bugs are fixed by people that decide they want to fix them, when that happens is anyone's guess |
| 09:59:41 | Bagder_ | we have MANY open bugs |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:01:14 | Unhelpful | there's a fair bit in plugins, isn't there? |
| 10:01:48 | Bagder_ | I'm sure, I haven't really looked that closely lately |
| 10:02:05 | * | Bagder_ is circling the project at high altitude |
| 10:02:18 | pixelma | sure, and that can't be translated yet |
| 10:02:25 | Bagder_ | ah yes |
| 10:02:27 | * | pixelma looks around for midgey |
| 10:06:09 | Unhelpful | with 2-bit subpixels, glyph data should cost 6b/pixel... i could pack 5 per word and just waste the other 2, or i could just pack 2-bit subpixels 16 to a word. i think the wasted 2 bits is probably fine if dealing with whole pixels not being word-aligned would hurt performance? |
| 10:07:13 | n1s | Unhelpful: a lot of our open bugs are also hardware specific or hard to reproduce |
| 10:07:41 | n1s | we've had some success with tracker cleanup weeks in the past but the mod |
| 10:07:56 | liar | i am trying to debug why rockbox freezes on my nano 2g when i connect an usb cable, it seems like the problem isnt in the usb thread, it seems there is another thread locking up and stopping all other threads from working, how could i debug this? |
| 10:07:58 | n1s | s/mod/most recent attempts have not done so much/ |
| 10:09:01 | | Quit stoffel_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 10:09:53 | Unhelpful | every time it's suggested i go look for bugs, i find ones specific to platforms i don't have, or buried deep in code i don't know. somehow i doubt i'm the only developer, especially among the newer crop, who has found this a problem. :/ |
| 10:11:51 | shai | ns1, I do suppose I could always bug tomers to push in my fixes ;) |
| 10:12:06 | shai | Or rather fix requests ... |
| 10:13:26 | Unhelpful | should this *really* be a bug at all? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10694?project=1&type=2&order=dateopened&sort=desc |
| 10:19:12 | Unhelpful | couldn't we very easily set default foreground/background colors and a solid-fg-on-solid-bg drawmode to fix this? it's not like anything will care what the state of the gfx engine is after the panic is "done". http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10665 |
| 10:19:50 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 10:21:38 | n1s | Unhelpful: you mean 10665? |
| 10:21:49 | n1s | ah, right |
| 10:22:16 | n1s | 10665 sound seasy |
| 10:22:48 | Unhelpful | the hard part is making it panic ;) |
| 10:29:05 | n1s | can anyone with an e200 confirm 10381? |
| 10:30:42 | Unhelpful | it already sets colors, actually :) |
| 10:31:49 | Unhelpful | so add a lcd_set_drawmode(DRMODE_SOLID)? |
| 10:35:26 | n1s | who knows stuff sbout the fonts around here? |
| 10:36:11 | Unhelpful | i've learned a *bit* working on aa-fonts. i might be able to help... |
| 10:36:20 | n1s | FS #9906 seems like a simple fix for a font error but i have nfi about those things |
| 10:37:16 | Unhelpful | hrm, it looks like panicf disables backdrop, clears the screen, then sets foreground and background colors. it still might be worth adding a lcd_set_drawmode to make sure it's not in DRMODE_INVERVSEVID, but i'd say it looks like this bug is already dead. |
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| 10:38:36 | amiconn | There are actually two functions to consider: panicf() and UIE() |
| 10:39:01 | amiconn | 10665 looks like an UIE() example |
| 10:40:41 | Unhelpful | so UIE should do all of the same setup as panicf, essentially? |
| 10:41:22 | Unhelpful | is there a reason it doesn't just use panicf? |
| 10:52:15 | amiconn | UIE() needs to be as self contained as possible |
| 10:53:05 | amiconn | Things have already gone very wrong when it gets called. The CPU might even be in a mode where not all memory is reachable |
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| 10:55:07 | Unhelpful | ah. so it might be a bad idea to go doing more in the way of graphics? |
| 10:55:43 | Unhelpful | it still does lcd_clear_display, though, at least on ARM... that can hardly be *less* likely to work than setting the colors and drawmode |
| 10:56:34 | pixelma | maybe clearing the backdrop, as I understood it this is the main problem </guess> |
| 10:58:02 | shai | Who does documentation updates? I noticed that the iPOD Video (5th Gen) has a current screen capture of The Playlist Submenu ... but still talks about non-existing features such as Insert Last Shuffled and Queue Last Shuffled. |
| 10:58:12 | shai | The PDF version. |
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| 10:58:52 | pixelma | non-existent features? You mean on the screenshot? |
| 10:59:10 | shai | I don't see them on the screen shot nor on my iPOD Video. |
| 10:59:25 | shai | Let me double check myself. |
| 10:59:59 | shai | Ack. Yes. |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:19 | Unhelpful | pixelma: the report claims text over WPS, so i'm guessing that the backdrop clear was added after this report. clearing the display is probably fine, but it should, as panicf does, also set colors, and disable backdrop |
| 11:00:20 | shai | Those two don't exist in the screen capture nor on my iPOD. |
| 11:00:48 | Unhelpful | and maybe add setting the drawmode to DRMODE_SOLID to both UIE and panicf |
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| 11:01:30 | pixelma | shai: when did you last update your build? Those were added fairly recently and the manual is updated daily |
| 11:01:44 | shai | Today (approx. 1 hour ago). |
| 11:02:11 | shai | I installed the Current Build using the Rockbox Utility. |
| 11:02:14 | shai | As I always do ... |
| 11:02:19 | teru | shai: are you selecting playlist file? |
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| 11:02:29 | shai | No. an MP3. |
| 11:02:32 | shai | Tomers, Morning :) |
| 11:02:58 | Tomers | morning :-) |
| 11:03:19 | shai | Actually... noon ... |
| 11:05:47 | teru | IIUC, they are only shown when folder or pleylist file is selected. |
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| 11:06:29 | shai | I selected neither... |
| 11:06:37 | pixelma | doesn't make much sense for a single file |
| 11:06:40 | Tomers | shai: Just port your new translation at FlySpray, and me or anyone else will commit, if appropriate. |
| 11:07:02 | Tomers | I would love to have feedback on Hebrew translations, and will commit promptly. |
| 11:07:24 | shai | Did you read the chat history? |
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| 11:08:31 | Tomers | shai: Also, working on manual stuff is highly appreciated. If you notice some screenshot changes, upload them to FS, hopefully with the same file name as used in the manual (why don't you pull RB code through SVN using TortoiseSVN in Windows)? |
| 11:08:38 | shai | pixelma, Understood. It does appear when selecting a folder (didn't try a playlist but I assume its the same). |
| 11:08:38 | Tomers | shai: Yes |
| 11:09:22 | shai | Tomers, So does your answer refelect the question about hard-coded text too? |
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| 11:09:26 | pixelma | I thought TortoiseSVN can be troublesome |
| 11:09:42 | n1s | it can |
| 11:10:03 | Tomers | pixelma: 'read-only' mode - not for commit. |
| 11:10:03 | shai | I personally don't like Windows for this... I'd rather use my Linux box for it... |
| 11:10:08 | n1s | something with the whole line ending mess |
| 11:10:41 | Tomers | shai: It will be much better to handle this in Linux. Windows is hell for this purpose - I just assumed you are using only Windows |
| 11:11:04 | pixelma | Tomers: I also read about people not able to compile with a TortoiseSVN setup, commit or not |
| 11:11:14 | shai | Tomers, and for my question on hard-codec text ... ? |
| 11:11:30 | Tomers | shai: Lately you've complained about having non-translatable string in WPS ("Next Song:", etc.). Why not bringing it up now? I don't know what are the technical barriers preventing this from being implemented, so we should ask |
| 11:11:49 | shai | Indeed! |
| 11:12:05 | shai | So, its on the table... |
| 11:12:16 | Tomers | pixelma: Good to know. Thanks. I gave up compiling rbutil in Windows, but maybe this is not related to the fact I fetched the code in TortoiseSVN |
| 11:13:12 | shai | Tomers, I'm not 100% sure how much nor which text is really hard-codec ... but maybe you can fill in that gap. |
| 11:13:25 | * | gevaerts points Tomers and shai to r22837 |
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| 11:13:42 | Tomers | shai: Also, we should push the issue of having Hebrew characters being part of some common fonts in RB, such as 12-Adobe-Helvetica, which is the default font on many targets |
| 11:13:45 | * | shai goes to find the URL to add r22837 to ... |
| 11:14:28 | shai | Tomers, Agreed... that's on the table too ... having the need to update two placed before you can read Hebrew is a drag. |
| 11:14:28 | Tomers | shai: Regarding Hebrew in fonts, refer to rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/ |
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| 11:14:53 | Tomers | shai: I think rasher is the address regarding fonts (gevaerts: am I right?) |
| 11:15:05 | gevaerts | Tomers: he does stats |
| 11:15:20 | gevaerts | I don't know if he also does fonts as such |
| 11:15:50 | shai | Hebrew is way behind... |
| 11:15:52 | Tomers | Shai: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=22837 |
| 11:16:03 | shai | Tomers, 10x |
| 11:16:32 | Tomers | shai: Actually, I think Hebrew is in good condition. At least it is highly usable after some configuration (font, default codepage) |
| 11:17:02 | shai | The Log Message in that rev. is way to technical for me... |
| 11:17:12 | Tomers | Unless you have critics on the quality of translation :-) I tried to translate as much as I could, but still tried to avoid over-translation |
| 11:17:29 | Tomers | of technical terms that have no proper translations |
| 11:18:13 | shai | I saw a word there... that I would never put in Hebrew unless I really knew what I was doing ;) |
| 11:18:26 | shai | That word, is the main reason I'm here today. |
| 11:18:39 | Tomers | shai: I guess you mean ×’××™×™×” which is the translation of fade-in ? |
| 11:18:41 | shai | But I'm up to an hour and still trying to get my head around the idea ... |
| 11:18:47 | shai | Nope. |
| 11:18:58 | shai | גומר actually... |
| 11:19:11 | shai | It should have been ×ž×¡×™×™× |
| 11:20:21 | shai | And in that context... it should have really been מעדכן |
| 11:21:12 | shai | Because you don't really know if its finishing the job... so the English original should also be altered (IMHO). |
| 11:22:23 | Tomers | shai: Bring the full string (english) here and ask people around - maybe they agree with you about changing this string. I'll fix the Hebrew translation |
| 11:23:04 | Tomers | gevaerts: Could you please save me some energy and briefly explain how can I use r22837 to translate, e.g. "Next Song:" ? AFAIU, what is needed to be done is changing the Cabbie theme to have that new tag instead of hard-coded string, then adding the translation in hebrew.lang? |
| 11:23:58 | gevaerts | Tomers: I'd have to go and figure it out myself. I know it's there, but that's about it. |
| 11:24:17 | Tomers | gevaerts: OK. I'll dig it up myself. Thanks |
| 11:24:36 | Tomers | Not for a new topic |
| 11:24:39 | | Quit Zarggg (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:24:41 | shai | Tomers, Is this the full translation page? rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/?cmd=edit&lang=hebrew">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/?cmd=edit&lang=hebrew |
| 11:24:52 | Tomers | s/Not/Now/ |
| 11:24:53 | gevaerts | Tomers: if you have questions about it, try to catch JdGordon |
| 11:25:04 | Tomers | thanks |
| 11:25:58 | pixelma | it currently uses strings in Rockbox that are already there (for use in menus etc.), I would not want to add strings to the language file just for a WPS, not sure if the default one should be an exception. I'm just a bit afraid that this will blow up the language files |
| 11:27:17 | shai | pixelma, was that meant to me? |
| 11:27:40 | pixelma | no, Tomers |
| 11:28:12 | Tomers | I think it would be useful to have rbutil 'implement' some default setting depending on the language it uses. E.g. if rbutil is used on a computer where Hebrew is set as default language, and thus uses Hebrew GUI, it should install Rockbox on the DAP and (optionally ask the user for confirmation) set the DAP's language to Hebrew, and set some more related configurations, such as setting... |
| 11:28:14 | Tomers | ...default codepage to Hebrew (I found Unicode to be somewhat unusable here, as most ID3 tags are non-Unicode, but that's another story). Also might set 12H/24H clock according to the OS setting where rbutil is running on, etc. What do you guys think? |
| 11:30:01 | Tomers | pixelma: I'm +1 for having translation for default theme. But I will understand the reasons why this might be wise. Does the mechanism that will be used to translate plugins could be used for translating themes? |
| 11:30:54 | * | gevaerts thinks that a set of common phrases should be acceptable |
| 11:31:01 | pixelma | I don't know, it hasn't been committed |
| 11:32:01 | Tomers | pixelma: What hasn't been committed? |
| 11:32:41 | pixelma | the plugin translation system |
| 11:34:17 | Tomers | pixelma: I now it hasn't. But could it be used to translate themes also? When it will be committed, of course? |
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| 11:36:14 | Tomers | shai: I can't find that badly translated sting anywhere (גומר) |
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| 11:43:05 | Unhelpful | how does this look? http://pastie.org/698493 |
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| 11:51:11 | * | Unhelpful *thinks* he sees a way to implement partitioned multiply-accumulate, provided the multipliers are *very* small... but probably 3 mac instructions is cheaper than 8 adds + 4 ands, plus setup? |
| 11:51:29 | amiconn | Unhelpful: I don't think clearing the backdrop or setting the drawmode in UIE() would be a problem |
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| 11:51:40 | amiconn | Just that UIE() shouldn |
| 11:52:27 | amiconn | 't call potentially complex functions without reason, because it increases the chance that it breaks |
| 11:54:42 | Unhelpful | amiconn: and clearing the backdrop is fairly simple, so that should be ok, it's just things like calling into panicf that we want to avoid? |
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| 12:00 |
| 12:03:39 | tomers | shai: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=23160.0 |
| 12:08:36 | n1s | hmm, why are we ifdefing for HAVE_LCD_BITMAP in syste |
| 12:08:49 | n1s | m-foo (where foo != sh)? |
| 12:09:32 | Unhelpful | n1s: in case things ever change? i can remove that if you like :) |
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| 12:13:59 | tomers | shai: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=23161.0 |
| 12:14:01 | | Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 12:16:34 | n1s | Unhelpful: less useless #ifdefsa are good imho :) |
| 12:17:41 | Unhelpful | fine, i'll nuke those and commit, it compiles on every color or greyscale arm or coldfire, and on charcell or bitmap sh :) |
| 12:18:00 | gevaerts | I'm not sure... |
| 12:18:19 | Unhelpful | are there mono targets aside from sh? |
| 12:18:28 | amiconn | yes |
| 12:18:31 | pixelma | the M:Robe100 |
| 12:18:48 | gevaerts | please don't go too far with this... |
| 12:18:49 | amiconn | And the Clip |
| 12:18:53 | pixelma | and m200 (port in progress) |
| 12:19:12 | gevaerts | and DAX |
| 12:19:25 | Unhelpful | with what? |
| 12:19:50 | gevaerts | removing support for screen types that happen not to be used right now |
| 12:21:16 | Unhelpful | that's a vote for leaving the extra #ifdef? |
| 12:22:03 | AlexP | Unhelpful: logik dax, it has some code in svn |
| 12:22:26 | pixelma | AlexP: sloow |
| 12:22:51 | gevaerts | I would leave them in, athough I wouldn't complain about the charcell-on-non-sh ones |
| 12:23:03 | AlexP | pixelma: no, I just misread |
| 12:23:33 | AlexP | pixelma: when gevaerts said DAX I thought he replied asking what it was |
| 12:23:34 | * | Unhelpful will remove just those, then :P |
| 12:27:43 | CIA-5 | New commit by unhelpful (r23623): Set DRMODE_SOLID, uniform colors, and sysfont before clearing LCD to display panic or exception messages - see FS #10665. |
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| 12:37:17 | CIA-5 | New commit by unhelpful (r23624): Fix dangling #endif |
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| 12:45:08 | kugel | Unhelpful: I saw you're going to work on subpixel anti-aliasing? |
| 12:45:11 | kugel | awesome :) |
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| 12:50:12 | n1s | care to look at one of those funny scrolling-lines-keep-scrolling-after-exiting-screen bugs? |
| 12:51:40 | n1s | eh that was to kugel, iirc you fixed some of them? |
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| 13:06:34 | n1s | OMG, we have both "lcd_scroll_stop" and "lcd_stop_scroll" functions |
| 13:06:48 | bertrik | haha |
| 13:11:46 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
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| 13:29:07 | n1s | yay i fixed the bug but have no idea if it's correct at all |
| 13:38:25 | n1s | JdGordon: ping? |
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| 13:50:53 | n1s | if anyone who understands this gui/scrolling code reads the logs i posted a patch that fixes the bugs i fs#10616 but i'm not sure it's correct (it even feels wrong) so i'd be happy if someone else took a look at it |
| 13:51:28 | n1s | s/i fs/in fs/ |
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| 13:56:56 | pixelma | there is also the bug that scrolling lines keep scrolling and on screen if you enter the USB screen (I believe there was a similar bug with the FM screen once, not sure how it was fixed but it was) |
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| 14:14:21 | kugel | n1s: heh, welcome in to the scrolling confusion :) |
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| 14:14:59 | kugel | stop_scroll() stops all scrolling. that should be avoided since it also stops scrolling in unrelated parts (read: custom statusbar) |
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| 14:15:55 | kugel | scroll_stop() only stops scrollingin the viewport you pass. However, that must be the same viewport that was used for set_viewport() before putting the text |
| 14:16:53 | n1s | kugel: one of those should really be renamed |
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| 14:18:26 | n1s | kugel: did you look at the patch? the thing i think is wrong with it is that i would think the menu drawing code should handle stopping scrolling lines |
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| 15:32:58 | shai | Can I have the iPOD connected to the PC on one hand via USB so I can manipulate the files there (copy music on and off) while at the same time have it available to play my music? |
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| 15:36:59 | AlexP | no |
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| 15:47:24 | shai | AlexP, too bad ... |
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| 18:13:24 | kkurbjun | kugel: about those statusbar bugs: are you testing on a 32bit or 64 bit machine? |
| 18:13:34 | kugel | 64bit |
| 18:14:10 | kkurbjun | ok, I'm on 64 bit too, have you had a chance to try it against the mr500 sim? |
| 18:14:16 | kugel | no, not yet |
| 18:14:30 | kugel | doesn't gdb give any info? |
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| 18:18:07 | kkurbjun | kugel: strange, I am trying this in a later build and it's not segfaulting |
| 18:18:31 | kkurbjun | maybe the segfault is not an issue |
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| 18:23:11 | Crunchie | does video now work on the nano 2g? last time I checked the sound/video was out of sync |
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| 18:24:23 | funman | check with different samples |
| 18:25:01 | Tomis | works for me Crunchie |
| 18:25:09 | Tomis | i just watched a full movie on mine last night |
| 18:25:15 | Crunchie | I checked it with the sample elephant dreams |
| 18:25:20 | Tomis | only took about 7% of my battery actually |
| 18:25:34 | Tomis | i was fully expecting it would take much more |
| 18:25:41 | Crunchie | oh okay will check out a new revision |
| 18:25:51 | tomers | I've noticed that most wps'es contains the string 'Next Track' while only CabbieV2 and DancePuffDuo has 'Next Song'. Is there a differentiation between 'Song' and 'Track' in wps, or is this simply an issue of lack of consistency? |
| 18:31:28 | kkurbjun | kugel: ok, I reproduced it on r: 23572 - I am going to see if I can pin down which revision fixed it |
| 18:31:43 | kugel | alright |
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| 18:41:11 | Crunchie | hmm it's still out of sync with the latest revision |
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| 18:42:11 | Crunchie | but oh well I'm glad I can run things now on my nano 2g :) |
| 18:42:40 | Tomis | really |
| 18:42:45 | Paleskin | rockbox r23549-091107 on sansa fuze |
| 18:42:59 | kkurbjun | kugel: looks like bug 2 is no longer an issue since r23580 |
| 18:43:03 | Paleskin | flac playback autopause during playback |
| 18:43:10 | Paleskin | and to resume need reboot |
| 18:43:16 | Paleskin | is this a known bug ? |
| 18:43:20 | Tomis | i used the 310kbps encode of elephants dream i think Crunchie |
| 18:43:22 | kkurbjun | I updated the tracker entry to reflect that |
| 18:43:23 | Tomis | seamed fine |
| 18:43:34 | Tomis | i didn't watch it all the way through though |
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| 18:44:22 | Tomis | i encoded a full movie at 150k video and 64k audio, about an hour and a half long |
| 18:44:24 | kkurbjun | I'm not sure aobut your assessment on bug 3 though - we must do some clearing of the screen before going into the wps, otherwise there would be artifacts of the list everywhere |
| 18:44:36 | Crunchie | I've used this http://download.rockbox.org/mpeg/elephantsdream-q6-176x128-310kbps.mpg |
| 18:44:39 | Tomis | it played fine |
| 18:44:46 | Tomis | yea, that's the one i usedd |
| 18:46:16 | kkurbjun | kugel: With the custom statusbar graphic glitches I have only been able to cleanly use it with the main menu, I have to disable it in the wps and re-produce the portion of the custom sbs in the wps that I would otherwise have done with a conditional in the sbs. |
| 18:46:17 | kugel | kkurbjun: the skin engine does this clear, but not as immediately as you might think |
| 18:46:49 | kugel | all my sbs are re-used in the wps |
| 18:46:56 | kkurbjun | it looks like it does the clear before the wps screen tests true |
| 18:47:30 | kugel | I doubt that |
| 18:47:33 | kkurbjun | by looks I mean just from testing it form a user side |
| 18:48:00 | kkurbjun | if you could try those tests it would be really helpful because I would like to understand how to use it properly |
| 18:48:12 | kugel | yea sure, once I have some time |
| 18:48:27 | kkurbjun | If I can't get it working right with the conditionals I don't see how anyone else will unless they get lucky |
| 18:50:00 | kugel | what glitches are you experiencing exactly? |
| 18:51:09 | kkurbjun | it shows portions of the custom sbs that were supposed to only show in the lists. If those areas are not overdrawn with a viewport in the wps the artifacts show |
| 18:51:30 | kkurbjun | I use this tag: %?cs<%Vda| | | > |
| 18:51:38 | kkurbjun | where %vda should only show in the list |
| 18:52:14 | kkurbjun | and then I go into the wps it shows an artifact of the albumart positioning that was only supposed to show in the menu |
| 18:52:56 | | Join panni_ [0] (i=hannes@ip-95-222-21-143.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 18:53:14 | Paleskin | oh yeah, how do I upgrade from one build to another ? should I erase the rockbox folder on fuze, and let rockbox utilities do the rest ? |
| 18:54:34 | Tomis | you can just download and extract the latest build to the device, having it replace existing files |
| 18:54:37 | gevaerts | Paleskin: no need to delete things. The new build will just overwrite things |
| 18:55:13 | gevaerts | Paleskin: have you checked the filesystem? Corrupted filesystems have been known to cause really strange behaviour |
| 18:55:38 | kugel | kkurbjun: why do you put a space there, btw? |
| 18:56:33 | | Quit funman ("free(random());") |
| 18:56:35 | kkurbjun | I dunno, I just had it in tehre in the example - it gives the same glitches if I just do %?cs<%Vda> |
| 18:57:52 | kugel | I'll have a look, that glitches shouldn't happen of course |
| 18:58:09 | | Join phanboy4 [0] (n=benji@c-24-98-43-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 18:58:50 | Paleskin | @gevaerts, how do I check my filesystem ? |
| 18:58:53 | kugel | kkurbjun: |
| 18:59:02 | Tomis | disk utility Paleskin |
| 18:59:12 | kugel | (oops) do you have something between %Vi and the folling %V[l]? |
| 18:59:23 | Tomis | oh sorry |
| 18:59:25 | Tomis | wrong room |
| 18:59:26 | Tomis | lol |
| 18:59:42 | Paleskin | @Tomis, control panel −−−−-> adm−−−−-> storage ? |
| 18:59:59 | kkurbjun | this is the sbs I am seeing the glitches with: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10771?getfile=20892 |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:02 | Tomis | i was thinking i was in one of the mac channels, sorry |
| 19:00:21 | Paleskin | oic |
| 19:00:38 | Paleskin | I'm using xp dual boot with 7 |
| 19:02:02 | Paleskin | let say If I deleted the rockbox folder first, then telling rockbox utilities to upgrade, so there aren't any leftover files, will something bad happens ? |
| 19:02:12 | kkurbjun | kugel: with that sbs I see a couple of graphic glitches, the left side of the wps backdrop seems to be from teh list backdrop, I have a small box that also appears to be from the list backdrop and then the album art from the list still shows |
| 19:02:38 | Tomis | i dont see why anything would be wrong with that Paleskin |
| 19:02:45 | Tomis | you're just deleting files and writing new ones |
| 19:03:14 | Paleskin | should I reinstall the boot loader ? |
| 19:03:32 | kugel | kkurbjun: basically, the problem is that the sbs can't just clear everything, it's not really proper if the wps does this either |
| 19:04:08 | kugel | if the sbs clears out everything, it could clear list/wps area. and the wps could clear sbs area |
| 19:04:55 | kugel | I'm not sure how feasible/possible doing it right is |
| 19:05:02 | | Join nawks [0] (n=matt@va-67-233-123-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 19:05:13 | kkurbjun | kugel, couldn't the sbs be re-drawn after the wps screen is entered and the screen is cleared? |
| 19:05:50 | kugel | IIRC that's being done. maybe it's not |
| 19:08:05 | kugel | you could try inserting a send_event(GUI_EVENT_REFRESH, NULL) somewhere in the if (restore ...) block |
| 19:08:52 | kkurbjun | kugel: what file are you referring to? I am not familiar with the skin code at all |
| 19:08:55 | kugel | or better, in gui_wps_display() before the skin_redraw call |
| 19:09:11 | kugel | wps.c and skin_display.c |
| 19:10:44 | kkurbjun | hmm, I get compile errors with send_event(GUI_EVENT_REFRESH, NULL); |
| 19:10:55 | kkurbjun | it says that GUI_EVENT_REFRESH’ undeclared |
| 19:11:52 | kugel | #include "appevents.h" |
| 19:12:58 | kkurbjun | :), it gets rid of the sbs glitches, but nothing shows in the wps till I go to the next trach |
| 19:13:00 | kkurbjun | tack |
| 19:13:04 | kkurbjun | track |
| 19:13:35 | kkurbjun | I just added that call to gui_wps_display |
| 19:13:47 | kkurbjun | right above return |
| 19:14:55 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:15:51 | kugel | strange |
| 19:17:19 | kkurbjun | kugel, if I add it in the if(restore block it gets rid of the albumart glitch and the wps shows mostly correct, but the left side of the backdrop still appears to have the list backdrop used - it appears to be equal to the scrollbar width |
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| 19:17:36 | | Part Paleskin |
| 19:17:52 | kugel | yea, the wps backdrop is set in gui_wps_display, that's why |
| 19:17:55 | kkurbjun | and I still have an unexplicable box right next to the now playing area |
| 19:18:30 | * | kugel doesn't understand why the wps is be empty |
| 19:24:06 | kugel | kkurbjun: that doesn't happen here |
| 19:24:18 | kugel | ah yea, I see why |
| 19:24:28 | kugel | bloody remotes :/ |
| 19:29:31 | Zorda_ | itunes to restore |
| 19:29:33 | Zorda_ | what do i do |
| 19:29:37 | Zorda_ | i cant get itunes :< |
| 19:29:54 | Tomis | why not |
| 19:30:34 | Zorda_ | Because it dosnt run on this computer i alreaty told you tomers >.> isnt there another option? |
| 19:30:59 | Tomis | it only needs windows or a mac |
| 19:31:03 | | Quit Prot (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 19:31:20 | Zorda_ | tomers it dosnt run on my computer i alreaty told you somewhere else |
| 19:31:22 | Zorda_ | :/ |
| 19:31:43 | Tomis | if you need to restore to the factory state, you need itunes, or restore from a backup, if you made one before installing rockbox |
| 19:31:46 | tomers | Zorda_: s/tomers/Tomis/ :-) |
| 19:31:55 | Zorda_ | sorry |
| 19:32:37 | Tomis | do you really want to go back to the factory firmware? |
| 19:32:48 | Zorda_ | Tomis Do i have a choice? |
| 19:32:52 | Tomis | or is it just that's what the ipod is displaying on it's screen |
| 19:33:16 | Zorda_ | thats what its saying. |
| 19:33:45 | Tomis | but do you want go back to the factory firmware |
| 19:33:49 | Tomis | if you don't care |
| 19:33:49 | Zorda_ | Not really. |
| 19:34:01 | Tomis | then you can just blow the thing away |
| 19:34:08 | Zorda_ | and put on rockbox? |
| 19:34:12 | Tomis | yea, exactly |
| 19:34:24 | Zorda_ | cool thanks |
| 19:34:26 | | Join hillshum [0] (n=hillshum@75-165-230-226.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 19:34:32 | Zorda_ | thats what i was wondering ifi could do |
| 19:34:48 | Tomis | yea it's just showing that message because something got messed up |
| 19:35:03 | Tomis | something probably went wrong during your rockbox instal |
| 19:35:23 | Tomis | just go through the process again |
| 19:39:56 | kugel | kkurbjun: I think I have a good patch soon |
| 19:40:06 | kkurbjun | cool |
| 19:41:08 | | Quit phanboy4 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:43:09 | | Join vodi [0] (n=vodi@91-113-68-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:44:07 | Zorda_ | hmmm its in disc mode but ipodpatcher isnt identying it.. |
| 19:45:46 | Zorda_ | did i brick it? lol |
| 19:46:21 | kugel | kkurbjun: http://pastie.org/698833 should do it |
| 19:48:02 | | Quit jfc^3 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:48:15 | kugel | it doesn't seem to remove the list backdrop parts here, which is weird since clear_display() and lcd_update() is called |
| 19:48:58 | | Part vodi |
| 19:49:39 | | Join jfc [0] (n=john@dpc6682208002.direcpc.com) |
| 19:50:40 | kugel | on a theme which didn't have this problem before :S |
| 19:51:34 | | Join Zambezi [0] (i=Zulu@80.67.9.2) |
| 19:52:53 | | Quit ender` (" First things first, but not necessarily in that order.") |
| 19:56:51 | Zorda_ | heh |
| 19:56:54 | Zorda_ | i dindt backup |
| 19:57:02 | Zorda_ | guess thats the end of my ipod |
| 19:57:03 | Zorda_ | w/e |
| 19:58:25 | kugel | unlikely |
| 19:59:16 | Zorda_ | or i could do the obious thing and take my netbook to where i can get itunes |
| 19:59:28 | Zorda_ | well |
| 19:59:37 | Zorda_ | it still works as a flashdrive |
| 19:59:37 | Zorda_ | lol |
| 19:59:38 | Tomis | just blow it away and resinstal rockbox |
| 19:59:48 | Zorda_ | tried didnt work |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:16 | Tomis | what ipod is it |
| 20:00:28 | Zorda_ | nano second gen |
| 20:00:39 | Tomis | do a manual instal |
| 20:00:46 | Zorda_ | i did |
| 20:01:08 | Tomis | here, lemme find the instructions i used |
| 20:01:31 | Tomis | ipodpatcher didnt like mine either |
| 20:01:38 | Tomis | i went with iloader and it works fine |
| 20:02:28 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 20:02:35 | Tomis | http://l4n.clustur.com/index.php/ILoader |
| 20:02:44 | Tomis | follwo those isntructions for the bootloader instal |
| 20:03:08 | Tomis | then follow rockbox's instructions for manual instal of rockbox, ignoring the rockbox bootloader instal |
| 20:08:04 | Zorda_ | meh |
| 20:09:15 | liar | on my nano 2g(with rockbox) there is a thread which locks up and stops everything from working. how could i find out which one it actually is? |
| 20:17:00 | gevaerts | Zorda_: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodManualRestore |
| 20:17:19 | * | gevaerts doesn't know why people say you need itunes for this |
| 20:20:04 | | Join phanboy4 [0] (n=benji@c-24-98-43-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 20:20:57 | | Join domonoky1 [0] (n=Domonoky@g229153129.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:22:29 | Tomis | because it's the manufacturer's way and it's easy gevaerts , that'd be my guess |
| 20:23:10 | Tomis | i'm surprised apple hasn't sent a c&d to the guy hosting the firmware files though |
| 20:23:35 | gevaerts | Tomis: possibly, but then "if you need to restore to the factory state, you need itunes, or restore from a backup, if you made one before installing rockbox" is just spreading misinformation |
| 20:24:22 | Tomis | yea i forgot about the manual way to restoring it |
| 20:27:49 | liar | gevaerts: but what about the FTL? is that saved on the flash where the files are saved or anywhere else? |
| 20:28:26 | kugel | kkurbjun: did you try that patch? |
| 20:30:47 | Zorda_ | gevaerts it dosnt have my model |
| 20:30:53 | | Quit MaadMan ("Leaving") |
| 20:31:03 | Zorda_ | could i just go with first gen nano? |
| 20:32:04 | Tomis | it does Zorda_ |
| 20:32:23 | gevaerts | liar: the FTL sites between the flash and the filesystem |
| 20:32:44 | Tomis | you were talkin abiut the list of firmwares at the linked page? |
| 20:33:16 | gevaerts | Zorda_: no. They're different. If you're really stuck, I'd recommend waiting aroud for TheSeven (although I really have no idea when he will be online again) |
| 20:37:03 | liar | gevaerts: what i mean is: if you put a backup back on your flash the ftl will be restored too? |
| 20:37:46 | gevaerts | liar: I don't think so. I think it needs to be reset explicitely, but I don't really know (no 2nd gen nano here) |
| 20:38:09 | liar | gevaerts: yeah so the itunes way is more save |
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| 20:47:40 | | Quit stoffel (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:49:16 | | Quit thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:50:08 | | Quit Tomis () |
| 20:53:51 | | Join Tomis [0] (n=Tomis@70.134.90.225) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:07:34 | CIA-5 | New commit by kugel (r23625): Fix peakmeter from delaying the initial display of the wps. Also change HZ/100 to TIMEOUT_NOBLOCK which is more appropriater in the get_action() call ... |
| 21:07:39 | | Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:08:03 | | Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 21:08:32 | tomers | kugel: Can you please give me feedback on "FS #10783 - WPS translation" ? |
| 21:09:35 | kugel | what kind of feedback? I'm for it, if you mean that :) |
| 21:10:15 | kugel | not sure if I like %Sr, but that's minor anyway |
| 21:10:20 | gevaerts | tomers: definitely commit the "next track" bit! |
| 21:10:42 | tomers | kugel: Thanks. Just want to ask several developers first... |
| 21:11:08 | tomers | kugel, gevaerts: I would rename it to whatever you think appropriate |
| 21:12:31 | tomers | gevaerts: There are two other phrases - 'Next', and 'of'. I think they can also go in - just a total three strings for this purpose is cheap :-) |
| 21:13:03 | kkurbjun | kugel, that patch does appear to fix the conditional viewport problem, the left size backdrop issue still seems to be there |
| 21:13:16 | tomers | Regarding the lang file, I use 'user: core' and also the asterisk for the phrases. Is it OK? |
| 21:13:20 | gevaerts | tomers: I mean FS #10782. I don't have an opinion yet on the others |
| 21:13:22 | kkurbjun | /s/size/side |
| 21:13:24 | kugel | kkurbjun: yea, I can't explain that |
| 21:14:02 | kkurbjun | there's still that little box that is clipped too |
| 21:14:07 | tomers | gevaerts: I will commit FS #10782 now.... |
| 21:14:20 | kugel | I suspect a bug somewhere else. a clear/update entire display really shouldn't leave that over |
| 21:14:58 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:15:00 | kkurbjun | I did find that it doesn't show if I disable the custom statusbar when going into the wps screen with %wd |
| 21:15:13 | kkurbjun | the left side glitch that is |
| 21:15:28 | kkurbjun | it doesn't show with the built-in statusbar either |
| 21:15:50 | kugel | well, the patch does that combo |
| 21:16:27 | kugel | you aren't unfamiliar with the lcd drivers, any idea how that could leave parts of the display untouched? |
| 21:16:57 | kkurbjun | The onlything I can figure is that a clear was called before the new backdrop is set |
| 21:17:04 | CIA-5 | New commit by tomers (r23626): FS #10782 - WPS: Rename 'Next Song' to 'Next Track' ... |
| 21:17:38 | kugel | kkurbjun: I tried explicit calls to display->clear_display() and display->update() too. that changed nothing except giving the expected flicker |
| 21:17:40 | kkurbjun | the backdrop is just done with a pointer and the lcd routines use that when doing any operations with fonts, transparencies, and clearing |
| 21:18:38 | | Quit linuxguy3 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:18:49 | | Join linuxguy3 [0] (n=timj@adsl-75-57-190-229.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:20:23 | kkurbjun | it would have to be something where that portion of the screen is drawn when the backdrop is set to the list backdrop rather than the wps |
| 21:23:31 | gevaerts | tomers: I think I like FS #10783, with two caveats : (a) I have no opinion on WPS tag names (see other people for that), and (b) maybe MrSomeone should do a survey on the theme site to find a list of common strings, so we can actually support more than just cabbie (of course the commit doesn't necessarily have to wait for this) |
| 21:23:53 | kkurbjun | kugel: do you know when lcd_set_backdrop is called with respect to clearing the screen? |
| 21:24:21 | kkurbjun | and is there a chance that it is called pointing to the list backdrop after the wps is entered? |
| 21:25:13 | kugel | ah I see what you mean |
| 21:25:21 | kugel | the backdrop must be set before clearing |
| 21:26:27 | | Quit Grahack (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 21:26:37 | kugel | kkurbjun: that works for me now http://pastie.org/698927 |
| 21:28:36 | kkurbjun | kugel, nice that is working properly now |
| 21:30:03 | kkurbjun | ahh |
| 21:30:22 | | Join TheSeven [0] (n=theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 21:30:39 | kkurbjun | I think I found what is happening to the touchscreen buttons - it looks like they are being offset when the custom sbs is loaded and enabled on the wps screen |
| 21:30:51 | kkurbjun | they are shifted down from the positions specified |
| 21:31:24 | kkurbjun | I'm not sure why that is happening though with respect to the code implementation |
| 21:31:56 | | Join Grahack [0] (n=chri@ip-222.net-82-216-222.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 21:32:04 | kkurbjun | oh, I wonder if it has to do with the UI viewport setting |
| 21:32:15 | kkurbjun | it looks like they are slightly offset down too |
| 21:32:30 | kkurbjun | and it seems to be approximately equivalent to the UI viewport setting |
| 21:32:40 | kugel | arent the coordinates absolute? |
| 21:33:01 | kkurbjun | they should be |
| 21:33:44 | kkurbjun | sorry the second offset note should read right rather than down |
| 21:33:50 | kugel | on a related note, someone should look into changing the touch button handling, so that the sb can have touchregions |
| 21:34:06 | kkurbjun | they are offset down and to the right about the same amount as the ui viewport offset from the top left of the screen |
| 21:34:33 | kkurbjun | that would be nice |
| 21:36:00 | kkurbjun | it also looks like the buttons that are defined outside of the ui viewport are not able to be pressed |
| 21:36:53 | kkurbjun | yeah, with the slider if I slide it to the right I can only use the area that overlaps with the ui viewport setting |
| 21:37:57 | kugel | I can't see where the code is wrong |
| 21:38:25 | kugel | ah well I can |
| 21:39:06 | | Quit Bagder_ ("It is time to say moo") |
| 21:39:08 | kugel | JdGordon recently made a change so that the default viewport of the wps is (potentially) a lot smaller |
| 21:39:44 | kugel | the touchregion code natuarlly checks if the press is within the viewport the touchregion is defined in |
| 21:40:12 | kugel | if that happens to be the default viewport, the touchregion might be capped |
| 21:40:52 | kugel | I don't consider this wrong, you should use a special viewport for the touchregion instead |
| 21:41:04 | kugel | (that's the only thing I can imagine right now) |
| 21:41:18 | kkurbjun | which viewport should be used for the touchregion? |
| 21:41:29 | kkurbjun | I mean what do I need to do in the wps/sbs? |
| 21:41:47 | tomers | gevaerts: Thanks for reviewing! I don't know who to ask regarding the name of the skin tag... Any idea? |
| 21:41:49 | kugel | define the touchregion after a viewport you have control over |
| 21:42:06 | kugel | or rather "more control" |
| 21:42:57 | kkurbjun | hmm |
| 21:43:26 | saratoga | got the new mdct to at least compile in rockbox, now to make it actually work |
| 21:43:50 | kugel | that wouldn't explain why it adds an offset though, and I assume the volume bar isfully drawn too (that would be strange since that also exceeds the viewport) |
| 21:44:10 | | Quit Strife89 ("Leaving") |
| 21:44:27 | kkurbjun | So right now it doesn't look like the ui viewport is used when you are in the list view with respect to the touchscreen handling, and then when you are in a wps it is used in some strange way |
| 21:44:58 | tomers | gevaerts: Maybe I should commit, and later rename if someone has a better suggestion? |
| 21:45:08 | tomers | because I thikn it is ready |
| 21:45:11 | kkurbjun | well the volume slider is displayed in its own user defined viewport |
| 21:45:18 | | Quit Tomis () |
| 21:45:24 | kugel | put the touchregion there then :) |
| 21:45:46 | * | kugel isn't sure anymore whether the coordinates are display or viewport relative, I would assume the latter |
| 21:45:50 | gevaerts | tomers: I wouldn't commit if there's a good chance it has to be renamed |
| 21:46:04 | pixelma | tomers: what name of the skin tag? What is it used for? |
| 21:46:11 | kkurbjun | yeah, I try do that as a workaround, but it seems like the logic is broken to me |
| 21:46:19 | gevaerts | tomers: on the other hand, only one person has objected so far, so maybe he can propose an alternative :) |
| 21:47:11 | kugel | kkurbjun: maybe it's clearer when you read the dev ml thread |
| 21:47:29 | kkurbjun | I read that thread between you and jdgordon |
| 21:48:10 | kugel | the default viewport of the wps uses the ui vp, I don't see how that's broken logic (I argued against that but both logics are reasonable) |
| 21:48:51 | kugel | that one was never guaranteed to be fullscreen actually |
| 21:49:08 | kkurbjun | huh - what is the thinking for having the wps use the ui vp for the default? |
| 21:49:27 | kugel | ask JdGordon :) |
| 21:50:24 | kugel | anyway, this vp can't be fullscreen or it gets in the way of statusbars (classic and custom) |
| 21:50:32 | | Join maffe [0] (n=Miranda@77-21-34-47-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 21:50:46 | kkurbjun | ok, I'll ask him about that |
| 21:50:52 | tomers | pixelma: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10783 - New conditional skin token 'Sr' which checks whether the currently loaded language is an RTL language (Hebrew/Arabic). It uses lang_is_rtl(). |
| 21:51:17 | kkurbjun | so it looks like the graphic glitches are fixed at least on the wps - when I'm in the list view and I hit resume I still get a glitch after the noting to resume message times out |
| 21:51:29 | kugel | if %T is viewport relative, then having it in the default vp was always wrong (no matter of UI vp or sbs) |
| 21:51:49 | kkurbjun | kugel, but the ui viewport might be dynamic in a sense - like I was trying to implement |
| 21:52:04 | | Join Tomis [0] (n=Tomis@70.134.90.225) |
| 21:52:08 | kugel | huh? |
| 21:52:09 | kkurbjun | so that you could have a status area while you are in the lists that goes away when you go to the wps |
| 21:52:20 | kkurbjun | I mean the ui viewport doesn't change size |
| 21:52:30 | kkurbjun | but the area that I would want it to take effect is less |
| 21:52:46 | kkurbjun | actually, in the wps I would not want the ui viewport used at all |
| 21:52:57 | kugel | you can do that, but you can't rely on the default wps viewport then |
| 21:52:59 | kkurbjun | but I guess that's a matter of debate |
| 21:53:19 | kkurbjun | yeah, I gotcha it makes more sense now that I understand what it's doing |
| 21:53:26 | CIA-5 | New commit by tomers (r23627): Updated Hebrew language |
| 21:53:47 | kkurbjun | I think that the behavior is confusing if you don't know what the underlying code is doing though. |
| 21:54:20 | kugel | I guess you can imagine what bad things happen if the default wps viewport overlaps with sbs (that also happens with specified viewports but that's considered as user fault) |
| 21:55:27 | kugel | JdGordon wanted to get rid of having 2 default setups (the %Vi and the UI vp one) |
| 21:55:43 | tomers | gevaerts,pixelma: I won't commit "FS #10783 - WPS translation" now. I'll let it cook until tomorrow.... |
| 21:55:48 | * | tomers Good night |
| 21:56:27 | kkurbjun | kugel: I don't understand having two setups though - doesn't the %Vi tag do the same thing that the cfg one in some sense? |
| 21:56:31 | | Quit tomers ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.4/20091028153816]") |
| 21:56:52 | kkurbjun | it seems like allowing the user to define one outside of the theme is a good way to break things as this touchscreen stuff shows |
| 21:57:10 | kugel | the code didn't quite do what it suggested to do, there was set_fullscreen() which was %Vi or really fullscreen minus the area used by the classic sb. then there was _set_defaults which was UI vp or the result of set_fullscreen() |
| 21:58:39 | kugel | now there's just set_fullsscreen which is really fullscreen and set_defaults which is the UI vp intersected with %Vi (or fullscreen if neither is set) |
| 21:59:28 | kkurbjun | so %Vi doesn't specify the UI viewport? |
| 21:59:45 | kugel | no |
| 21:59:50 | kkurbjun | ok... |
| 21:59:53 | kugel | it's the viewport that doesn't overlap with the sbs |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:10 | kkurbjun | I'm not using the UI viewport then I was using the wrong terminology in the above messages |
| 22:00:34 | kugel | so the wps' default viewport is as big as %Vi |
| 22:00:45 | kkurbjun | ... |
| 22:01:01 | kugel | if you want to overlap that because you know what you're doing, then you need to specify viewports |
| 22:01:04 | kkurbjun | but that's different from the UI viewport? |
| 22:02:07 | * | kugel thinks the better way of doing is to handle all this stuff within the sbs |
| 22:02:33 | kugel | you seem to be deactivating parts of the sbs in favor of filling that space from the wps? |
| 22:03:06 | kkurbjun | so consider this case. The wps disables the sbs when you go into it because it wants the default viewprot to be the fullscreen expecting to set touchscreen positions relative to the fullscreen. then the user sets a ui viewport setting with a cfg - what happens to the touchscreen areas? |
| 22:03:22 | kkurbjun | yeah, that's what I was doing |
| 22:04:38 | kugel | why don't you do that in sbs? |
| 22:05:19 | kkurbjun | do what? |
| 22:05:38 | kugel | fill that space from the sbs instead of from the wps |
| 22:05:49 | kkurbjun | the album art is larger in the wps |
| 22:06:03 | kkurbjun | I give a smaller area for album art in the list |
| 22:06:19 | kkurbjun | and then when you go to the wps I only want to show the time section of the sbs |
| 22:06:28 | kkurbjun | with that conditional setting |
| 22:07:06 | kkurbjun | then then the expectation I have is that you can use the area that does not have an active viewport in the sbs |
| 22:07:20 | kkurbjun | which works now with that patch |
| 22:07:24 | kugel | yea, that's how I did it originally |
| 22:07:29 | kkurbjun | but the touchscreen stuff gets all offset |
| 22:07:39 | kkurbjun | which is fine if you know what your doing |
| 22:07:51 | kugel | you really shouldn't be having touchregions in the default wps viewport |
| 22:08:00 | kkurbjun | but the concern I have is with the cfg ui viewport setting |
| 22:08:24 | kugel | having them in a specified viewport is not only a work around, it's the only way to get a guaranteed vp |
| 22:09:16 | kugel | if you want a fullscreen one you can always put a "%V|0|0|-|-|-|-|-|" at the very beginning |
| 22:10:17 | kkurbjun | it worked fine before with the standard statusbar, the other concern I have is how do you effectively communicate this to a theme author - after talking to you and jdgordon I have an understanding of how this all fits together, but it's extremely confusing/looks like a bugs if you don't know what the code is doing |
| 22:12:13 | kkurbjun | yeah, the %V|0|0|-|-|-|-|-| tag worked |
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| 22:12:20 | kugel | my initial commit didn't change that behavior, if you had %wd you got it very fullscreen. JdGordon changed that |
| 22:12:46 | kugel | but, if you don't have a UI vp, and %wd and still don't get fullscreen now, it's a bug |
| 22:13:57 | kkurbjun | kugel, what if the custom sbs doesn't specify a %vi tag though and the wps enables the statusbar and you have a cfg setting for the ui viewport |
| 22:14:30 | kugel | the UI vp is used for the wps |
| 22:14:32 | kkurbjun | that would generally be an invalid case I would agree, but there's nothing stopping an author from doing that to my knowledgte |
| 22:15:06 | kugel | not having %Vi easily leads to problems, I don't disagree here. I think CustomWPS is explicit about that |
| 22:15:11 | kkurbjun | and that breaks the theme if they use the default viewport for the touch offsets |
| 22:15:26 | kugel | that's bound to be broken, really |
| 22:16:00 | kugel | I consider such a theme badly coded no matter of ui vp/sbs/whatever |
| 22:16:12 | kkurbjun | I bet I could make a pretty usable sbs that doesn't specify the %vi tag |
| 22:16:24 | kugel | kkurbjun: that's why it isn't required ;) |
| 22:17:18 | kkurbjun | and if I didn't know better there would be nothing stopping me, but when you throw the ui viewport cfg in the mix it can start breaking all kinds of things in the wps depending on how it is made |
| 22:17:58 | kugel | we obviously can't make everybody happy |
| 22:18:32 | kugel | what we have now certainly gives the best freedom and good fall back mechanisms |
| 22:18:55 | kkurbjun | I guess my point is it seems that the %vi tag should be the only thing that changes the display - that way the theme/skin author can make sure that everything plays nice |
| 22:19:13 | kugel | and ignore the ui vp? |
| 22:19:25 | kkurbjun | when you let the end user that didn't have a hand in the creation of the theme or skin set those things it's setup for confusion |
| 22:19:36 | kugel | don't confuse %Vi with making things look nice. it's the tag to make an sbs portable |
| 22:23:25 | kkurbjun | I guess I would count myself confused :-D |
| 22:23:49 | kugel | is somewhere mentioned that %Vi is the UI viewport? |
| 22:24:15 | kkurbjun | "This viewport is used as Custom UI Viewport in case the theme doesn't have a ui viewport set in the theme.cfg" |
| 22:24:21 | kkurbjun | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WebHome?topic=CustomWPS |
| 22:24:40 | kugel | yea, that's correct |
| 22:24:51 | kkurbjun | so %vi is the ui viewport? |
| 22:25:05 | kugel | only " in case the theme doesn't have a ui viewport set in the theme.cfg" |
| 22:25:25 | * | gevaerts thinks that that line is actually meaningless |
| 22:25:39 | kugel | and it's not something you can rely one, since you can interchange wps's and sbs's |
| 22:25:48 | kkurbjun | yeah.. that makes sense so the theme can set it in the cfg or the sbs |
| 22:25:52 | gevaerts | The actual used viewport is the intersection between UI viewport and %Vi, right? |
| 22:26:00 | kugel | maybe it should be worded to make clear that it's used as a fallback rather |
| 22:26:04 | gevaerts | hm, wait, this is about WPS |
| 22:26:08 | * | gevaerts doesn't know then |
| 22:26:12 | kkurbjun | haha |
| 22:26:55 | kkurbjun | but the user could also set it in their cfg independent of the theme, sbs, or wps |
| 22:27:15 | kugel | kkurbjun: %Vi is designed to make SBSs work with themes that aren't designed for it, to not cause redraw problems |
| 22:27:15 | gevaerts | yes, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea |
| 22:27:43 | kugel | if you want to align stuff to the backdrop, then that's unrelated to the sbs, then the ui viewport setting should be used |
| 22:27:57 | gevaerts | oh wait, it's not wps, it's sbs... |
| 22:28:14 | * | gevaerts thinks that the %Vi description is misleading |
| 22:28:38 | kkurbjun | but %Vi wouldn't accomplish that with a wps that really used viewports to their full extent |
| 22:29:33 | kugel | of course not |
| 22:29:39 | kugel | the wps needs to make sure itself |
| 22:30:08 | kugel | by using %wd for example (although that doesn't protect against the UI viewport) |
| 22:30:10 | gevaerts | kugel: if the UI viewport is not set, the UI behaves as if the UI viewport is set to fullscreen, right? If so, isn't the effect *always* that the used viewport is the intersection of %Vi and UI viewport? |
| 22:30:22 | kkurbjun | so what is the expectation from the user side - it sounds like the intent is for sbs's to be portable, but they, in reality are not if you use viewports in the wps |
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| 22:30:37 | kugel | gevaerts: sounds about right |
| 22:30:55 | kugel | kkurbjun: I can't follow that conclusion |
| 22:31:27 | * | gevaerts thinks that in an sbs world a wps shouldn't enable the status bar |
| 22:32:41 | kkurbjun | so consider all the themes that use the %we tag because of the builtin statusbar and it uses viewports in the wps - then they load up a custom sbs that sets a %vi tag to try and be "portable" which doesn't really accomplish anything |
| 22:32:50 | pixelma | isn't the biggest problem when you don't use own viewports in the WPS and rely on the default viewport? |
| 22:33:14 | pixelma | i.e. draw stuff in it |
| 22:33:25 | kkurbjun | the only way that %vi is portable is if you exclusively rely on the default viewport |
| 22:33:41 | kkurbjun | I mean have a wps that exclusively relies on it |
| 22:34:05 | kkurbjun | or have a wps that disables the statusbar |
| 22:34:07 | kugel | kkurbjun: that's the wps' fault, not the sbs one |
| 22:34:11 | gevaerts | not really, because the wps might also rely on a certain minimum size |
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| 22:34:31 | kugel | of course we can't have *everything* just work |
| 22:34:31 | bomber227 | wassup |
| 22:34:41 | kkurbjun | gevaerts: how do you mean? |
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| 22:35:43 | gevaerts | kkurbjun: in the old days, the status bar always had the same size so the wps could take that into account. In the %Vi days, the left-over space can easily be too small to show the wps in any sensible way |
| 22:35:57 | gevaerts | and the wps author can't really do anything about that |
| 22:36:04 | bomber227 | i finally got my sansa fuze in the mail and now have a clipv2 thats not in use. now i was wondering if there's any way i could help with the clipv2 developement? i can't think of how but id like to help anyways |
| 22:38:23 | kkurbjun | kugel: I see the point of having the flexibility from the developer/skin author standpoint, but it puts alot of burden on the end user when we offer menus for selecting your custom sbs and wps in the same menu screen |
| 22:38:36 | kugel | I disagree |
| 22:39:29 | kkurbjun | and mixing/matching them does not work right - how are they supposed to understand the intricacy of what they just did to their interface |
| 22:39:49 | saratoga | bomber227: hows your c programming? |
| 22:40:27 | bomber227 | 0. i have started learning BASIC, though.... |
| 22:40:30 | * | kugel thinks kkurbjun is too user centric ;) |
| 22:40:42 | kugel | don't forget our ideal to not care about them :) |
| 22:40:44 | gevaerts | basically the current way can work with independent backdrop+UI viewport (i.e. the "list theme"), sbs, and wps, *as long as* the wps does not show the status bar. I think that that's sufficient to warrant the flexibility, but yes, it would be nice to make wps+random sbs work |
| 22:41:12 | kkurbjun | if we pulled those menu items and only allowed these to be set from a "theme" it would allow all that flexibility while preventing the user from making all kinds of bad combinations |
| 22:41:32 | kkurbjun | :) |
| 22:41:42 | kugel | "preventing the user from making all kinds of bad combinations" is simply impossible |
| 22:41:49 | kugel | and we don't need that |
| 22:41:56 | saratoga | bomber227: well without the ability to program developing isn't going to be possible |
| 22:42:13 | kkurbjun | well it would at least make it more difficult for a novice user to destroy the usability of their player |
| 22:42:15 | saratoga | i suppose if you're not using the player you could see if any developers were interested in working on it |
| 22:42:19 | gevaerts | The user has been able to pick bad combinations forever, with much worse results than are possible with the sbs+wps mess |
| 22:42:29 | bomber227 | yeah. i was thinking maybe testing or soemthing |
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| 22:43:32 | kkurbjun | when I say user I'm talking about the person that loads up a bunch of themes on their player and starts messing with the theme menu - I'm not talking about someone developing a new theme |
| 22:44:14 | kkurbjun | /loads up a bunch of themes with rbutil/ after installing rockbox that is |
| 22:44:14 | gevaerts | kkurbjun: how can they destroy the usability of their player? I mean, they might have an unreadable wps if they pick a bad combination, but they can still get out, and return to the settings menu. That's *a lot* better than what happens if they pick bad colour combinations |
| 22:44:51 | kkurbjun | if you have a %vi setting and a cfg setting that only overlap with one pixel that would be a touch interface to navigate |
| 22:45:06 | kkurbjun | tough that is |
| 22:45:36 | gevaerts | hm, true. That could be solved by having some sort of minimum and refusing to load the sbs |
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| 22:47:12 | bomber227 | alright well i guess i cant help |
| 22:47:28 | kkurbjun | I'm sure there are other ways to solve it, I'm just saying that it's a potential nightmare for the end user. only allowing them to set these through the cfg seems like a good way to give the most flexibility while protecting the user to some degree. |
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| 22:48:32 | gevaerts | it definitely protects them, but should it? There are dozens of other settings that can have bad effects if combined in certain ways, should we block all of those? |
| 22:48:51 | kkurbjun | what settings are you referring to? |
| 22:49:51 | gevaerts | there are some UI things (backlight off, or colour combinations), there's the EQ that can't handle too many bands on slow CPUs, there's the traditional party mode support issue, ... |
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| 22:53:51 | kkurbjun | in the case of the EQ it seems to make sense that the number of bands should be limited if the cpu cannot keep up with it - generally I thought backlight off is disabled on targets that you can't physically read the screen - colour combinations might make sense to be in the theme |
| 22:54:31 | gevaerts | in the EQ you can't limit it, because the amount of available CPU also depends on the codec used. You might be able to do five bands with flac, but not with ape |
| 22:55:03 | saratoga | on PP a better solution would be to move the EQ to the second core |
| 22:55:13 | saratoga | then you'd probably be ok with everything but maybe MP3 |
| 22:55:14 | gevaerts | I think it's reasonable to do some things such as a guaranteed minimum viewport (maybe just implemented by just falling back to built-in everything, although fancier ways might be doable), so that the user can always get back to the settings menu, but I really don't like the idea of just dropping nearly all theme related settings |
| 22:55:30 | gevaerts | saratoga: yes, on PP :) |
| 22:55:51 | saratoga | are there other targets too slow for 5 band EQ on most formats (APE excluded)? |
| 22:57:01 | gevaerts | I mean, picking a theme you like and then changing the menu backdrop should be possible. It can cause bad combinations, but I'd expect this to be a reasonably common thing to do for people who can handle computers but don't want to edit theme .cfgs by hand |
| 22:57:03 | pixelma | I thought colour combinations are checked and not settable but the problem would be colours on backdrops |
| 22:58:39 | pixelma | only making settings possible in a package through themes doesn't necessarily protect against errors - it could be that the theme author did a mistake |
| 22:59:50 | kkurbjun | pixelma: I agree, the theme author could have messed up but I am counting them more in the power-user category they at least know about the different file types and know what to change |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:26 | gevaerts | saratoga: from looking at CodecPerformanceComparison I suspect that AAC might get in trouble as well, but my point was really that trying to set always safe limits is a bad idea |
| 23:00:42 | kkurbjun | gevaerts: I agree that could be a possibility, but I don't know where the target is for reasonable |
| 23:00:43 | saratoga | AAC on what? |
| 23:01:45 | gevaerts | saratoga: on coldfire it seems to be between 115% and 160%. 115% doesn't really sound enough to add five bands of EQ |
| 23:02:50 | gevaerts | kkurbjun: "there's enough room to find a menu". That could mean enough room for two lines of 22 characters, and compile with HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS :) |
| 23:02:53 | saratoga | according to that page its about 60MHz, which leaves another 65MHz for EQ |
| 23:03:02 | saratoga | i don't think our EQ is that slow |
| 23:03:08 | saratoga | though AAC+ is another story |
| 23:03:14 | saratoga | and one that i hope to get to soonish |
| 23:03:35 | kkurbjun | gevaerts: that also depends on the font size.. |
| 23:03:53 | saratoga | actually i'm hoping to get some AAC benchmarks from the new IMDCT lib this weekend |
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| 23:04:05 | kkurbjun | and that would fail on the mr500 remote in any case |
| 23:04:09 | gevaerts | kkurbjun: true, but the "use built-in everything" should handle that |
| 23:04:16 | saratoga | i think coldfire performance will hopefully get a lot better, particularly if I can get someone to give me a few lines of ASM |
| 23:04:30 | gevaerts | saratoga: I was looking at the last set of results on the page |
| 23:04:42 | saratoga | the first set are the most current i think |
| 23:04:51 | gevaerts | ah indeed |
| 23:05:07 | saratoga | the last set are a couple days before I put the new MDCT into AAC :) |
| 23:05:21 | gevaerts | anyway, if you can handle AAC with five band EQ, I'll just add timestretch and compression :) |
| 23:05:36 | saratoga | are those features slow? |
| 23:05:45 | gevaerts | I don't know! |
| 23:06:14 | gevaerts | I'm just pointing out that there can be lots of "bad" combinations of settings that we can't easily detect and block |
| 23:06:32 | saratoga | i think with some more optimization we could have most/all SWCODEC able to use full DSP effects on all sane formats |
| 23:06:57 | gevaerts | But there's no law that forces people to use sane formats |
| 23:07:15 | saratoga | true, but the insane ones probably won't play real time at all |
| 23:08:29 | saratoga | i just realized i have no idea how to turn on eq |
| 23:08:30 | gevaerts | APE tends to have a just-better-than-realtime profile for most targets. It's not always the same one of course |
| 23:09:27 | saratoga | i'm benchmarking EQ right now |
| 23:11:34 | saratoga | about 5MHz per EQ band |
| 23:11:38 | saratoga | (on PP) |
| 23:11:46 | saratoga | so 5 bands is just 25MHz |
| 23:13:12 | gevaerts | not too bad |
| 23:13:29 | saratoga | so basically PP should be able to use 5 EQ bands for all formats which it can decode in realtime except probably ATRAC3 |
| 23:14:16 | saratoga | still putting them on the second core would give a nice battery life boost |
| 23:14:38 | saratoga | i should ask Blue_Dude hard that would be to do |
| 23:15:01 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:15:11 | gevaerts | it would definitely be nice |
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| 23:17:17 | gevaerts | there's also the eternal ipod video and its relatively slow LCD update that would really benefit from this |
| 23:21:17 | * | amiconn hands saratoga a 'how' |
| 23:33:36 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
| 23:35:05 | | Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.) |
| 23:35:14 | | Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) |
| 23:36:14 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 23:36:49 | | Quit Highlander ("Quitte") |
| 23:39:44 | | Quit bmbl ("Bye!") |
| 23:48:06 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
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| 23:58:58 | Quintasan | Hiho, I'd like to package RBUtil for Ubuntu, on what license is rbutil released, I'd like to know if it uses any other licenses for some files |
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