#rockbox 2009-11-17

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#rockbox log for 2009-11-17

00:05:57		Quit bertrik ("De groeten")
00:13:38		Quit mcuelenaere ()
00:16:14	saratoga	any ideas why the clip doesn't turn on the screen if it data aborts?
00:16:17	saratoga	its really annoying
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01:28:56	Unhelpful	saratoga: check UIE?
01:29:30	saratoga	Unhelpful: ?
01:29:34	Unhelpful	UIE on ARM does not appear to touch the backlight
01:29:59	saratoga	other targets manage to power on the back light when crashing
01:30:18	Unhelpful	hrm, and clip doesn't even have one, does it?
01:30:53	saratoga	have what?
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01:42:18	saratoga	huh UIE doesn't seem to turn on the backlight
01:46:24	saratoga	Unhelpful: rereading what you wrote, the clip has active OLED pixels, but it still needs to have the back light on in order to read them (although in reality it just turns on the screen)
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02:09:32	Unhelpful	saratoga: "backlight" on means "display" on, basically?
02:10:45	saratoga	Unhelpful: I believe so
02:11:01	saratoga	the pixels are basically light emitting diodes, so they're either off or glowing
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02:45:33		Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@adsl-81-160-3.mcn.bellsouth.net)
02:46:59	Strife89	Well, the Fuze is finally on its last legs - %20 remaining.
02:54:02	Strife89	And it died.
02:57:23	Strife89	11H 52M
02:58:27	saratoga	12 hours
02:58:29	saratoga	we have work to do
03:00
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03:05:51	saratoga	the new clip patch seems like a pretty big improvement
03:06:03	Strife89	After using the iPod for a while, the time feels pretty good. :)
03:06:34	Strife89	I kept wondering, for a while, if the Fuze would even drain before I went to sleep.
03:07:44	Strife89	Furthermore, this is a fairly worn Fuze. The battery is certainly nowhere near tip-top shape.
03:07:47	JdGordon	pixelma: you get anywhere with the statusbar bmps?
03:08:25	Strife89	That said, I'll start an OF benchmark tomorrow, then another Rockbox bench that involves NO interaction.
03:09:30	Strife89	saratoga: Also note that I used ogg vorbis files. VBR, just short of 192 kbps.
03:10:56	Strife89	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaRuntime
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03:15:21	saratoga	format probably doesn't make a huge difference since the CPU clock speed can't go below 62MHz
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03:18:53	Strife89	What does it clock at when boosted?
03:22:39	JdGordon	saratoga: go ahead and email thingamybob for access....
03:22:44	JdGordon	noone wants to object
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03:25:48	Blue_Dude	What is going on with the build system?
03:28:01	Blue_Dude	More importantly, where do we go to fix it?
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03:49:26	saratoga	Strife89: 248MHz
03:49:43	saratoga	Blue_Dude: it occasionally gets stuck, you'll have to wait for someone in Europe to wake up and fix it
03:52:28	saratoga	JdGordon: ok sending the email now
03:55:16	saratoga	lets hope that hotmail address goes somewhere he actually reads
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04:04:10	Unhelpful	kugel: i made another test image with all four subpixel layouts. one of these should look nearly free of color fringe for you. or else you just have eyes too sharp for your own good.
04:04:12	Unhelpful	http://www.looking-glass.us/~chshrcat/rockbox/aafonttest3.png
04:04:24	saratoga	4 hours and counting on my clip
04:04:43	saratoga	i wonder if it'll go all night
04:08:02	Unhelpful	for calibration a synthetic test with pure colors would be better
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04:25:39	Tomis	i see color fringe on every single one of those Unhelpful
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04:59:37	saratoga	funman: ping
04:59:50	funman	pong
05:00
05:00:07	funman	(and early hello)
05:00:20	saratoga	the latest clip patch is working pretty well for me
05:00:31	saratoga	you might want to try it out if you've still got a v 1 clip working :)
05:00:36	saratoga	5 hours and counting
05:00:51	funman	i've seen it on flyspray but i did not give much time for rockbox recently
05:01:05	saratoga	http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/buffering_playback_v1.7z
05:01:09	funman	this has good sides : my clip is still working ;)
05:01:14	saratoga	try it next time you're listening to music
05:01:22	saratoga	thats what i've been doing
05:02:56	saratoga	anyway good night
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05:03:04	funman	'night
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06:12:18	AEnima1577	hellp
06:12:21	AEnima1577	hello
06:12:25	AEnima1577	and help
06:12:40	AEnima1577	interesting, anyways any one deal with rockbox and mpd together/?
06:13:17	JdGordon	just ask yoour question
06:13:31	JdGordon	mpd shouldnt have any problems.. rockbox usb just shows up as a filesystem
06:15:04	AEnima1577	i wanted to know about tag writing and updating
06:15:28	AEnima1577	if i used rockbox to rate the music and wanted to up dated the mpd database based on what the ratings were in rockbox
06:17:34	JdGordon	nope
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07:52:00	pixelma	why does the built-in statusbar vanish on the remote when I select a custom sbs on the main screen (seen in an H300 sim)?
07:57:40	CIA-80	New commit by Ubuntuxer (r23653): FS #10193 - Add a standart menu to rockblox and clean up the code
08:00
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08:07:40	pixelma	Ubuntuxer: what does standard have to do with art?
08:08:29	Ubuntuxer	what does you mean?
08:09:22	pixelma	the spelling (I only say something because I saw you spelling this wrong all the way in the forum post too)
08:10:36	Ubuntuxer	ups, sorry
08:10:57	pixelma	it's also wrong in German ;)
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08:22:04	CIA-80	New commit by Ubuntuxer (r23654): Fix previous commit on targets without bitmap support
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09:50:05	topik	linuxstb: are there any plans to introduce a fix for FS #10679 ?
09:52:44	linuxstb	topik: I'm not working on the Nano2G any more - best for someone who is (e.g. TheSeven) to fix that. I noticed he's made one or two commits which reduce stack usage, but don't know if he has plans for more changes like that (if they are even possible).
09:54:25	topik	fair enough. thanks for the reply. perhaps TheSeven can pick it up
09:54:46	topik	that issue is the only really annoying thing about rockbox on my nano 2g atm
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11:32:46	salty-horse	hi. using valgrind, I get an uninitialized data read warning in strcmp when it compares strings "a word at a time", it tries to compare the data beyond the allocated area
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11:35:58	TheSeven	topik: i managed to get rid of all big things on the stack inside the FTL, so this one must be coming from the FAT driver
11:38:02	TheSeven	so there are two possibilities: move FAT buffers from the stack to the bss (and thereby disallow simultaneous use of the affected parts of the fat driver by other threads, thus probably requiring more interlocking), or just increase the stack size
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11:40:54	topik	is the FAT driver nano-2g specific or is it just luck it doesn't happen on other targets?
11:41:40	TheSeven	it's the bigger sector size on nano2g that makes the generic fat driver use more stack
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12:25:12	kugel	salty-horse: maybe the string isn't nul-terminated?
12:26:48	salty-horse	it is (the last string section.. "of\0" in the generated lang_core.c), but strcmp checks a bit beyond it beyond it since it looks at words
12:27:14	gevaerts	salty-horse: does this actually matter?
12:27:32	salty-horse	not really. the function is still correct
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12:53:12	Unhelpful	Tomis: some color fringe is unavoidable, because the image is using the components that make up each pixel directly, instead of grey pixels. but, on an LCD display, one of the four text samples should look less colorful than the others
12:54:56	kuddel_	hello everybody,
12:54:56	kuddel_	can anyone of you tell me if there's the possibility to sync my iaudio X5 with iTunes like an iPod? I'm experiencing with tools like itunemywalkman but the don't really feel natural in iTunes on a Mac. Any hints are appreciated :)
12:55:38	TorneWuff	There is an experimental patch to make other players pretend to be iPods, yes
12:55:41		Nick TorneWuff is now known as Torne (i=torne@lowell.wolfpuppy.org.uk)
12:56:08	Torne	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10023?string=itunes&project=1&type[0]=4&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&reported[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
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12:56:32	Torne	Hm, actually that's specific to e200 SD
12:56:34	ED-209	hello
12:56:43	Torne	but the principle applies :)
12:56:54	ED-209	first I'd like to say thanks for an AWESOME firmware/OS
12:57:32	ED-209	second I'd like to report some h300 bugs which hopefully one of you can put on the bug tracker?
12:57:54	ED-209	I don't want to log in
12:58:01	ED-209	or register
12:58:57	ED-209	the first is that with the wired remote, you cannot turn the player on. it says the hold switch is engaged (regardless of whether the switch is engaged or not) and refuses to turn on via the remote.
12:59:16	Torne	Er, please report bugs in the tracker :)
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12:59:23	toresbe	Hello :)
12:59:26	kuddel_	@Torne: cool, i'm gonna try this and report some feedback in the next days :)
12:59:52	ED-209	I don't want to register my info, I was hoping someone already registered could report these bugs
12:59:58	ED-209	they are universal to all h300 users
13:00
13:00:01	toresbe	I've got one of those 3G iPod Nanos. I gather that there's no running support and no current efforts to set that up, either
13:00:21	Torne	ED-209: there's no point someone who can't reproduce a bug reporting it
13:00:27	Bagder	ED-209: so what about follow-up questions? testing patches? helping out?
13:00:29	Torne	toresbe: Not yet, no.
13:00:41	toresbe	What would be the outstanding challenges in terms of porting it to the 3G?
13:00:55	ED-209	badger: I'm not a coder, I can't fix any of these bugs and I have no idea what I'm doing with linux
13:01:02	Torne	kuddel_: you realise you will need to do some reasonable amount of development to make that work on your player
13:01:10	Bagder	and I'm not badger...
13:01:45	Torne	kuddel_: not a huge amount, but still. you will need to be able to do more than just apply patches and build; the patch only changes the behaviour for e200, not iaudiox5
13:03:54	Torne	ED-209: the point is that if you want the bug fixed you should be prepared to answer questions from the developers about it, test possible fixes, etc, which means we need to be able to contact you
13:04:15	ED-209	ok where do I sign up
13:04:19	Torne	ED-209: the bugtracker is not just for developers to use
13:04:37	Torne	"Register", right next to the login box?
13:05:13	ED-209	that window took me to this chat room
13:05:17	ED-209	I guess I'll go back to it
13:05:20		Quit ED-209 ("CGI:IRC")
13:05:54	Torne	how do you end up on our cgi:irc when you mean "register on flyspray?"
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13:09:50	kugel	Unhelpful: the first one looks best on my computer display
13:09:53	kuddel_	@Torne: oh, okay, I didn't imediatly reallyze that by reading quickly - Are there any other recommendations for people like me who are not familiar with code development?
13:10:51	amiconn	Torne: Pretending to be an ipod is only possible on software usb targets though
13:12:01	Torne	kuddel_: No, that patch is all that's been done.
13:12:23	Torne	is the X5 swusb?
13:12:28	amiconn	no
13:12:37	kuddel_	@amiconn: what does this mean?
13:12:47	kuddel_	okay, i see
13:13:28	Torne	ah.
13:14:55	Torne	kuddel_: then no. there are various programs around which can sync itunes libraries onto non-ipods, though, but I've not really used them, so dunno.
13:15:04	Torne	google :)
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13:19:25	kuddel_	yes, I googled for such tools but on a mac there are only some unsatisfying tools available who only hard copy complete lists and don't really sync lists etc.
13:19:25	kuddel_	Thanks for your quick responses and plz go on with this great development on rockbox, i really like it and many friends of me too now. Bye :)
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13:19:51	ED-209	Hi, I added two bugs which I think are quite major for the H300 series
13:20:30	ED-209	it said it helps if you talk about them in the channel
13:20:37	ED-209	should I link them?
13:20:50	Torne	we can find them
13:21:11	ED-209	one is the wired remote not being able to switch on the player
13:21:29	ED-209	but the major one is the plugin "metronome" being totally non functional. and it also jams the player
13:22:58	ED-209	I've found that the h300 series is quite popular with musicians or DJs, with the inbuilt line in/out and recording capabilities... the pitch detector was an awesome inclusion, but the metronome is just as important, especially for drummers (there are some dj applictions for this too)
13:23:46	ED-209	is there anyone working on the h300?
13:24:40	ED-209	I mean there must be a relatively large community, these players are 6 years old and are selling for 300USD on ebay, routinely
13:24:58	ED-209	even broken ones sell for a couple hundred
13:25:43	ED-209	the demand for them is certainly out there and rockbox is makes these into a fantastic unit, but the metronome is a really important feature I find
13:26:08	Torne	Metronome bug is already on FS, you know
13:26:12	Torne	FS #10546
13:26:21	ED-209	it was under h100 series
13:26:26	ED-209	a different player
13:26:35	Torne	so?
13:26:39	Torne	those players are very similar
13:26:48	Torne	and someone already commented there saying it doesn't work on 320 either
13:27:08	ED-209	more exposure can't hurt in the fixing of this bug can it?
13:27:36	Torne	Er, duplicate bugs do hurt, yes, they're a waste of people's time :)
13:27:56	ED-209	it's not a duplicate bug, I put it under the h300 series
13:28:00	Torne	it's much more useful if everyone experiencing the same problem is actually on the same page, so someone fixing it doesn't have to repeat themselves
13:28:03	ED-209	the previous bug was for an h100
13:28:21	Torne	That doesn't matter..
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13:28:29	Torne	It's extremely likely ot be the same issue.
13:28:45		Quit CATS (Remote closed the connection)
13:28:45	Torne	There is also another bug with the metronome on a different player which is a keymapping problem. it's possible this is also a keymapping problem.
13:28:54	Bob_C	how would a user know that?
13:28:59	ED-209	ok, well you said to register and report the bugs, so I did, how was I to know that the h100 and h300 are similair
13:29:28	Torne	ED-209: I didn't say you were
13:29:36	Torne	but you seem to be objecting to my claim that it's a duplicate..
13:29:43	Torne	I suggest you watch 10546 instead
13:29:56	Torne	(or as well)
13:30:34	ED-209	well, it's under h100 series, and absolutely nothing has happened with that bug report except another user commenting
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13:30:55	Torne	The fact that an existing bug hasn't been fixed doesn't mean that having a new one will make any difference..
13:31:01	ermal	any port to action chips ?
13:31:11	Torne	ermal: ports are listed on rockbox.org, if it's not there then no.
13:32:24	ermal	it doesn say about cpu
13:32:55	Torne	oh, you mean a particular SoC?
13:33:07	Torne	(why do you ask?)
13:33:23	ermal	cpu is "action"
13:33:45	ermal	if yes I will buy an mp4 with action cpu
13:33:54	ermal	to test it
13:34:09	ED-209	is there anything I can do to help with these bugs?
13:35:13	Torne	ED-209: If you can't fix the code yourself, then probably not until someone with the right player suggests something to try or proposes a possible fix.
13:35:42	ED-209	I'll get an email if the bug is commented on by someone won't I?
13:35:45	Torne	yes.
13:35:55	Torne	you should watch 10546 to make the same happen for that.
13:36:15	ED-209	ok then.
13:36:16	Torne	my housemate has an h120, if the bug is reproducable on his player I may have a look
13:36:38	Torne	and if i can fix it then you can test it on h300 :)
13:36:48	Torne	but i can't guarantee anything
13:36:59	ED-209	the metronome? I should have opened this irc web client in a different tab
13:37:36	gevaerts	ED-209: this is with 3.4?
13:37:51	ED-209	it's with whatever the last release is
13:38:18	ED-209	the only one that I've used ROLO to put on my h300
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13:38:57	ED-209	previously I was just patching/unzipping
13:40:06	ED-209	the thing that makes me sad is that I've used this unit for years, it's on it's 3rd battery at least, and 3rd or 4th hard drive
13:40:18	gevaerts	OK. Could you try with the latest current build? There have been some issues with button maps on h300 that have been fixed since them. I suspect that they could possibly be related
13:40:38	ED-209	I just unzip the current build onto my unit?
13:40:57	gevaerts	yes
13:41:03	ED-209	I'll do that now
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13:45:00	ED-209	there is another problem too, when I plug the unit in via USB, the battery meter drops to zero and it starts charging from there
13:45:19	ED-209	or it drops significantly and starts charging from that point
13:46:07	Torne	That's probably not a bug
13:46:19	ED-209	it's a brand new battery.
13:46:22	Torne	battery voltage readings are just like that, especially on batteries that are getting on a bit
13:46:27	ED-209	cameron sino
13:46:38	Torne	the voltage reading depends on the load
13:46:47	Torne	which changes depending if you have an external power source attached or not.
13:46:52	ED-209	when fully charged it routinely says there is 27h 30m left of runtime
13:47:22	ED-209	should I plug the wall adapter in?
13:47:28	ED-209	and see if it changes?
13:47:28	*	Torne doesn't know what runtime the h300 is supposed to have
13:48:04	ED-209	it's safe to plug the wall adapter in while it's hooked up via USB isn't it?
13:48:58	ED-209	or no?
13:49:01	kuddel_	hey, me again. Just want you to know, if anybody else has my problem (sync iTunes w/ non iPod): there are 3 tools available for macs to sync tracks from iTunes onto a non iPod-Player: iTunemyWalkman (hard cpies selected playlists to a specified destination on any mountable device), SyncTunes (development ended in a buggy state but has many recommendations for older versions in forums etc.) and Podless, a littls iTunes Plugin that does nearly
13:49:02	kuddel_	same like the first but isn't as configurable. So, if anyone else asks you, you know ;)
13:49:54	Torne	kuddel_: If you try one out and find it works well for rockbox, please mention it on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UsefulTools so other people can find it there?
13:50:17	petur	batteries go old, even if not used. If you don't know the manufacturing date, you can't say the battery is brand new. Certainly for a target like h300 that is several years old, the new batteries could already be 2+ years old...
13:50:26	Torne	More useful than kjust telling us :)
13:50:30	kuddel_	@Torne will be done in some days :)
13:50:52	Torne	yah, no hurry or anything, just if you find a tool that works well it's good to share it there, as that's where we tend to direct people asking for such tools :)
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13:51:27	kuddel_	okay. Bye
13:51:30	Torne	ED-209: I would really hope so, but i've not used one ;)
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13:53:05	ED-209	I bought it from ebay, the seller said it was brand new, it came with a recent manufacturing date and it's performed like a new one
13:53:49	ED-209	and besides I had to dremel out the back of my iriver to accomodate a 2200mAh battery
13:54:08	Torne	ED-209: some amount of variance in battery voltage is expected, is my point; even if it's a new battery then there's no guarantee it won't jump some when you switch from discharging to charging.
13:54:13	ED-209	and the polarity had to be changed
13:54:30	petur	ha! you bought an ipod battery, not h300!
13:54:56	petur	my CameronSino h300 battery (also 2200mAh) fitted fine and no polarity change
13:55:14	ED-209	hang on
13:55:27	Torne	it doesn't seem likely to be a bug, is all; it's possible, but reading the battery voltage is probably pretty simple code and if it was wrong someone would likely've noticed. ;)
13:55:40	ED-209	actually this new one was for an h300
13:56:01	ED-209	it was very slightly smaller than the ipod battery I had in it before
13:56:28	Torne	if it was for the h300 it wouldn't have its polarity backwards... :)
13:56:52	ED-209	it didn't, I checked, I was thinking of the other one
14:00
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14:21:07	Bagder	http://www.slideshare.net/fscons2009/rockbox-at-fscons-2009-2518734
14:22:26	ED-209	hey who said to try the current build?
14:22:35	ED-209	the metronome still doesn't work
14:22:47	ED-209	h300 metronome bug, current build, still present
14:22:56	ED-209	I'm going back to 3.4
14:23:14	ED-209	wait unless there is anything extra in the current build
14:23:26	*	Bagder sits silent and watches
14:23:40	ED-209	is there anything extra in the current build?
14:24:06	ED-209	should I keep it over 3.4?
14:24:51	gevaerts	ED-209: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MajorChanges will tell you. There have been changes, but I don't know if you're interested in them
14:24:55	gevaerts	Thanks for testing
14:26:04	ED-209	ait that says SVN
14:26:13	ED-209	is SVN the same as a current build?
14:26:37	Torne	Yes, "current" refers to the current SVN revision
14:27:37	ED-209	by the way, when I plug the wall adapter in, the voltage meter drops right down again, and starts charging from a much lower point. how can this be. running off the battery it shows 76% or so, then I plug the wall adapter in (which is 5v 2A) and it drops down to a tiny sliver of a bar and starts charging from there
14:27:54	ED-209	how can there be a voltage drop when I've plugged a 5v 2AMP adapter in for it to charge with
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15:22:36	marek_	hi http://pastebin.com/m21da0ed can you take a look? i tried to use bootloader to instal rockbox on my gigabeat S player
15:29:02	AlexP	running it as root?
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15:38:09	marek_	AlexP not,
15:38:14	marek_	but i dealed with it
15:38:21	marek_	in fact it was automounted
15:38:27	marek_	and after unmounting it worked
15:38:32	marek_	now i am very happy
15:38:41	marek_	finally i have rockbox on my Toshiba S :)
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15:52:08	ED-209	any h300 users/developers here at the moment?
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16:07:58	AlexP	ED-209: Most issues affect most devices, if you have a question just ask it
16:13:03	Torne	ED-209: You don't need to keep repeating it every hour, you know
16:13:45	ED-209	because you're here all the time?
16:14:26	Torne	because we have a bugtracker, and people who are likely to fix bugs read it?
16:14:56	Torne	for the metronome one at least i have confirmed the behaviour is identical on current h120 builds and will take a look later.
16:15:09	ED-209	the battery meter and "estimated run time" don't seem to correlate
16:15:27	Torne	One is calculated frm the other
16:15:31	CIA-80	New commit by teru (r23655): jpeg/png: refactor use of buf.
16:15:37	Torne	so that seems unlikely
16:15:49	ED-209	well
16:15:51	Torne	we work out battery percentage by consulting a discharge curve and comparing it to the voltage.
16:16:19	Torne	and then we use the percentage, the design capacity in mAh, and the estimated average current draw, to work out the runtime estimate
16:16:26	ED-209	when running the unit for say, 10 minutes, and the percentage drops maybe 2%
16:16:54	Torne	if the percentage goes down by 2% the estimate should go down by 2%
16:17:09	ED-209	it doesn't
16:17:47	Torne	what does it do?
16:18:28	ED-209	well there was a drop in estimated remaining runtime of a lot
16:18:48	Torne	But was that 2%?
16:19:02	Torne	The estimation process is not very bright, as described above.
16:19:02	ED-209	it wasn't 2% of what it said by any means
16:19:50	ED-209	now I've installed the current build, the total estimated time on a full charge is 25 hours instead of 27.5
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16:20:16	saratoga	my clip played all night
16:21:29	Torne	Yes, the estimate may not be accurate
16:21:37	Torne	but it should behave consistently with the percentage, is what I'm saying
16:21:52	Torne	the estimat ei sbased on our hardcoded choice of what the "normal" current draw of the device is
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16:21:55	Torne	not actual measurements
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16:22:59	Torne	If your estimate is not changing in sync with the percentage something odd is going on :)
16:23:11	Torne	but if it's just being inaccurate, there are a large number of possible reasons.
16:23:51	Torne	The estimate will change when things like usb being plugged/unplugged happen, also
16:24:08	Torne	the current draw estimate is based on which hardware is active.
16:24:43	ED-209	is there a warm up period for lipo batteries?
16:25:08	Torne	no.
16:25:38	Torne	voltage varies with charge level, according to a predictable curve, and also according to load (in a less predictable way)
16:25:50	Torne	(well, less predictbale because we don't know the load)
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16:26:34	ED-209	so you switch the unit on and it'll drain the battery exactly the same as if it were running for 4 hours? that curve doesn't change from "cold" starts so to speak?
16:26:44	Torne	no.
16:26:54	Torne	lipoly is nice and predictable when new
16:27:15	Torne	it gets worse the older it is, because the internal resistance changes and the voltage starts to become more and more dependent on the load
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16:43:34	kugel	saratoga: what patch?
16:44:50	saratoga	kugel: latest in the clip playback task
16:44:56	saratoga	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10605
16:45:16	saratoga	been running this on both the clip and e200v1 without any instability for 15 hours
16:45:33	saratoga	if i get to 24 hours lets make the clip supported ;)
16:45:51	*	AlexP predicts 23 hours 59 minutes :)
16:46:47	salty-horse	saratoga, how long does the e200 last?
16:47:01	saratoga	you mean battery life?
16:47:05	salty-horse	yes
16:47:07	AlexP	salty-horse: The point here is that it crashes, not the battery life
16:47:13	saratoga	i'm running off external power
16:47:17	salty-horse	oh
16:47:25	salty-horse	it's good that it doesn't crash, then :)
16:47:33	saratoga	but probably 24 hours with a new battery, and maybe 15 with my badly worn one
16:47:58	saratoga	i should probably buy a new battery and do a battery test on the e200v1
16:49:34	ED-209	I should have reset my total runtime when I installed this new battery
16:50:14	ED-209	hwo do you do that by the way?
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16:50:56	ED-209	it's been 260 hours since my last hard drive smashed....
16:51:06	ED-209	(of runtime)
16:51:34	AlexP	ED-209: We don't need to know, this is a development and support channel
16:52:08	ED-209	ok can you answer my question then please? how do you reset the total runtime?
16:52:23	saratoga	probably just delete your .rockbox folder and unzip another one
16:52:33	saratoga	maybe keep you config file if you don't want to lose your settings
16:53:57	Llorean	saratoga: Would that be something kept in nvram.bin?
16:54:13	ED-209	the config file will have all my settings but not the runtime? I've changed a LOT of settings that I won't remember how to put back to the way they were, and will probably have to ask in here hwo to change them all back
16:54:33	Llorean	ED-209: Why would you need to ask in here how to change settings? They're all in the manual and the menus.
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16:56:49	AlexP	ED-209: Why not look in the config file?
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16:58:06	ED-209	at the time I couldn't find exactly what I wanted in the manual, this was about 2 years ago, aside from the obvious ones. I guess I'll re-read it if necessary but I'd like to keep my settings. I will look in the cfg file now and see if it's stuff I understand
16:58:06	markun	Llorean, AlexP: why give a suggestion in the form of a question?
16:58:45	ED-209	^ haha
16:58:53	AlexP	markun: To see if he has any reason not to?
16:59:00	markun	ok?
16:59:03	AlexP	yes?
16:59:18	Llorean	markun: I wasn't giving a suggestion. I assumed ED-209 is intelligent enough to be able to navigate the menus and read the manual, so was wondering what must be lacking that would necessitate questions here.
16:59:33	Llorean	markun: Pardon me for making it unclear and sounding like I was assuming he was too stupid to know about the manual.
16:59:52	markun	pardon granted
16:59:57	AlexP	very gracious
17:00
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17:01:18	ED-209	also I'm wondering if there is a patch available that will "stream" whatever is plugged into the line in through the headphones at all times (so I can plug my phone into the line in socket, and answer calls that way, and record if necessary)
17:02:01	AlexP	If you have it in the recording screen I think it already does that
17:02:24	AlexP	But that doesn't work with music
17:02:40	ED-209	yeah I mean at all times
17:02:53	AlexP	There is nothing like that to my knowledge
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17:09:11	Strife89	If such a feature could be implemented, it would likely eat your battery.
17:12:36	ED-209	not amplified, just like a shortcut of some kind. the phone already has amplified headphones, it would just need to feed into the headphone out
17:14:27	ED-209	actually thinking about it a hardware solution would be more appropriate
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17:23:57	Strife89	ED-209: Enter #rockbox-community for a minute, please.
17:24:31	ED-209	how, this is a web client from the rockbox site
17:33:45	ED-209	with the h300 and some other units, is there support planned for the USB host?
17:34:16	AlexP	not really
17:34:27	AlexP	If someone wants to do it then they are welcome to
17:34:50	AlexP	But as this is a volunteer effort people work on what they want to, and nobody has shown any interest in that
17:35:43	saratoga	is the h300 even capable of USB host?
17:36:11	AlexP	Yeah, not sure if both, or if just one of EU/US
17:36:34	ED-209	yeah it is, I wouldn't ask if it wasn't.
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17:39:07	hillshum	ED-209: /join #rockbox-community
17:41:54	Strife89	hillshum: He did. :)
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17:45:00	Jaykay	can someone explain me the small random differences in the bin/ram size delta table?
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18:18:41	Jaykay	nobody?
18:20:08	evilnick_B	Jaykay: If it's very small changes then it could be to do with the distributed build system
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18:20:30	Jaykay	yes, 22b or so...
18:20:46	Jaykay	but why? different preferences on the clients or what?
18:21:51	mc2739	it could be different compiler versions
18:22:21	mc2739	it could also be code alignment
18:22:52	evilnick_B	And also different OSes
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18:29:02	hillshum	Because the native compiler that builds the crosscompiler varies between systems
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18:33:45	Jaykay	but it doesnt matter (affect performance etc.)?
18:35:36	Torne	It might affect anything :)
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18:35:49	Torne	but it's unlikely to make any difference you'll notice
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18:39:22	Jaykay	ok, thanks :)
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19:16:56	B4gder	http://twitter.com/stomachion/status/5801640627 ...
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19:20:29	salty-horse	B4gder, are you replying?
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19:20:50	AlexP	salty-horse: No point, people are welcome to be wrong if they want :)
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19:21:27	B4gder	no I won't respond to that, I wouldn't know where to start
19:22:15	JdGordon\|	haha
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19:24:11	Horscht	wth is an ipod photo?
19:24:23	saratoga	4G Color
19:24:25	pixelma	4th gen Ipod
19:24:42	pixelma	with colour screen
19:24:50	Horscht	oh
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19:25:14	saratoga	anyone else feel like testing the latest clip patch
19:25:16	saratoga	?
19:25:32	saratoga	I'm quickly coming up on 24 hours without a crash, I'd love to know its not just a fluke of my clip
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19:26:07	AlexP	can do
19:26:13	AlexP	where is it at?
19:26:32	pixelma	saratoga: does it still need testing on some other targets?
19:26:50	pixelma	I mean that it doesn't break existing ports
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19:30:43	Llorean	saratoga: Can't effectively test today, but if you still need another tester tomorrow after we've got AlexP's results, poke me and I'll give it a go too.
19:31:40	saratoga	pixelma: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10605
19:31:45	saratoga	yeah it could use testsing on everything
19:31:50	saratoga	it changes buffering and playback
19:31:54	saratoga	there could be side effects
19:32:21	saratoga	buffering_playback_v1.patch is the one to test
19:32:29	mc2739	maybe domonoky can test on the m200v4 also
19:33:06	saratoga	i think the important thing is to test on the clip, a flash target, a HD target and a HWCODEC target just to make sure nothing else changes
19:33:34	pixelma	saratoga: has it been tested on HD targets yet?
19:33:39	saratoga	i don't think so
19:35:37	pixelma	do you really mean the *_v1.patch, not v2?
19:35:55	Jaykay	...is a e200v1 needed?
19:36:20	Jaykay	ah, apparently not :)
19:36:32	Jaykay	( i just read the last comment in FS)
19:36:38	AlexP	Jaykay: I think saratoga has done that, but it can't hurt - you never know what odd combinations of things might unearth something
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19:37:34	saratoga	pixelma: the v2 test includes a minor optimization, you can test it too, but I was waiting for matsch to look at it and tell me its ok
19:37:52	saratoga	unless i completely misunderstood what he was doing it should be the same as the v1 patch
19:41:45	AlexP	How do I charge without rebooting on the clip?
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19:44:55	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: is it possible that the wps code has redraw issues if you use conditional tags that specify differently sized viewports to be shown (%Vdx) for different cases? More precisely, it seems that the now no longer used screen bits do not get cleared
19:47:59	pixelma	gevaerts: my WPS use different sized viewports in some cases but I always fill the screen complety (with another viewport). That works well but I think I saw problems during "development" when spots where empty, but it's quite some time ago and I seem to remember that I somehow expected that due to an info given. Can't remember the details though
19:48:32	gevaerts	pixelma: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=23142.0 is the one I'm looking at
19:48:45	darkham	hi people, i would know about assistive technology on rockbox
19:48:47	pixelma	saw that too
19:51:23	Llorean	darkham: All that's really offered is voicing of various screens.
19:52:03	AlexP	The clip "don't do USB, charge" button is hold select - on (virtually?) all other players it is menu (and quickscreen). Any reason for this difference? I'd like it to be changed to be consistent
19:52:15	darkham	Llorean, when user scrool menus, a voice talk the scroll?
19:52:55	Llorean	darkham: I have no idea what you mean by "talk the scroll." A voice will read the names of menu entries if that's enabled, yes.
19:52:58	AlexP	darkham: Talks the scroll? As in, says "Now scrolling down"?
19:53:04	JdGordon\|	gevaerts: sure its possible :) I cant remember if viewports which are being disabled get cleared or not
19:53:38	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: well this user is complaining that bits of the AA gets clipped off :)
19:53:46	pixelma	AlexP: on the Sansas it's all Select - and thinking of the c200, "menu" is on the Power button, so holding that might not be such a great idea
19:54:04	AlexP	huh, OK
19:54:13	AlexP	shows how often I use any of the Sansas
19:55:08	Llorean	AlexP: It might make sense to fix it on the Clip though, since the menu button isn't the power button.
19:55:13	domonoky	darkham: rockbox can speak-out to you menus and files/folder on your mp3player, if it is setup correctly.
19:56:58	darkham	Llorean, AlexP sorry , i go wrong with english, i mean if a voice says, when user scroll the menu, "Files" or "Plugins" when users stop scrolling on it
19:57:14	AlexP	darkham: yes
19:57:41	AlexP	If you install the voice files that is
19:57:57	darkham	AlexP, i can find .voice files?
19:58:15	AlexP	I think we supply English ones
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19:58:36	AlexP	darkham: One moment, I'll check
19:59:25	AlexP	darkham: Yes, English are provided, or I think rbutil will install them for you
19:59:43	AlexP	darkham: For other languages, I think you need to generate them
19:59:53	darkham	yes i understand
20:00
20:00:30	AlexP	darkham: Rbutil will help you to generate your own ones too (if you have a text to speech engine installed)
20:01:38	JdGordon\|	gevaerts: why is he setting up viewports to overlap the AA anyway?
20:02:00	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: advanced UI stuff. Some sort of option button popup
20:02:32		Quit pamaury (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
20:02:36	JdGordon\|	oh the one in the forums? I havnt had much of a chance to look at it
20:03:13	darkham	i don't need it for now, but i worked on a blind union, and i think that will interesting
20:03:35	JdGordon\|	nice screenshots!
20:04:56	JdGordon\|	gevaerts: he wants the AA behind the popup thing?
20:05:05	gevaerts	yes
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20:10:41	CIA-80	New commit by pixelma (r23656): Classic_statusbar.sbs images: make them proper 1-bit bitmaps, so that they work as expected with foreground and background colour and backdrops. I'd ...
20:14:03	JdGordon\|	pixelma: thanks
20:15:07	JdGordon\|	now just need to fix one annoying bug and the old bar can finally die!!
20:15:32	JdGordon\|	can anyone else not read .wps files at all?
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20:16:34	pixelma	I'd like to see the hwcodec recording quality thing fixed, and I noticed an inconsistency with the remote sbs handling for packaging (and it doesn't seem to pack .rsbs files)
20:18:05	JdGordon\|	" hwcodec recording quality thing fixed" ?
20:18:47	*	gevaerts gets a suspicion
20:19:36	pixelma	there are no rwps files in the source tree, the script automatically grabs wps files with the correct size specified for the remote and only makes them an rwps during packaging, that seems to be different for sbs (an rsbs file exists so there is already a difference - and it doesn't make it into the zip as it seems)
20:20:12	pixelma	JdGordon\|: well currently the classic_statusbar won't work completely in the hwcodec recording screen
20:20:21	*	domonoky wonders what checkwps and the theme site does with the new .sbs files..
20:20:45	gevaerts	How do you make a wps eat a new line again? # at the end?
20:20:57	JdGordon\|	yeah
20:21:01	pixelma	because instead of the bitrate, it should show the quality setting
20:21:04	JdGordon\|	bug... fearture...
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20:21:27	JdGordon\|	pixelma: is hwcodec bitrate working? its very likely its not yet
20:22:21	pixelma	huh? As I said, there is no bitrate setting - there is a quality setting. The MAS records vbr files and you can adjust the average with that
20:22:49	JdGordon\|	so hiow is it supposed to work?
20:23:07	*	gevaerts manages to get that wps to work
20:23:14	JdGordon\|	good one!
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20:23:52	gevaerts	well, mostly :)
20:23:59	pixelma	JdGordon\|: thought you could tell me as you introduced new recording screen tags...
20:24:38	JdGordon\|	what do you want it to display?
20:24:45	pixelma	currently you could achieve that with %St I guess and a different classic_statusbar.sbs for hwcodec then
20:25:12	JdGordon\|	have I not added the hwcodec sbs yet?
20:25:34	pixelma	it shows a small "Q1" etc. instead of the bitrate icons
20:26:08	pixelma	I only saw one sbs file (and an rsbs one)
20:26:17	JdGordon\|	ok, thats just a matter of adding some %Xd<strip><number> tags
20:27:02	JdGordon\|	ok, i havnt added it yet
20:28:02	CIA-80	New commit by jdgordon (r23657): initial hwcodec/112x64x1 sbs
20:28:09	JdGordon\|	there you go
20:29:55	pixelma	does your "Rb" tag deal with this correctly?
20:30:34	pixelma	seems you make it display a real "Q" and then %Rb
20:31:25	JdGordon\|	you'd have to look at the source... I coudlnt tell you off the top of my head, but yeah it does set the tag value to the bitrate so you can do images with it fine
20:32:04		Quit mt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:33:04	pixelma	there are no bitrates, %Rb would need to return "0" or "1" - up to 7... besides a real Q and number probably won't fit.
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20:35:13	JdGordon\|	there is a rough mapping from Q to bitrate isnt there?
20:35:33		Quit mt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:35:50	JdGordon\|	I'm pretty sure I took whatever logic the old bar used and but that into the tag's logic...
20:36:23		Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
20:38:41	JdGordon\|	but you;d have to look at the bottom of skin_token.c to be 100% sure what its actually doing... and I'm at work so cant help
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20:40:18	Paleskin	after upgraded the rockbox fuze, all my kanji title songs, didn't show up on database
20:40:26	Paleskin	is this a known bug ?
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20:44:26	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: the reported issue had nothing at all to do with clearing or redrawing issues. The WPS asked to print "-\n" :)
20:45:22	JdGordon\|	oh bloody hell
20:45:23	JdGordon\|	:p
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20:49:18	pixelma	JdGordon\|: ok, it returns the numbers (tested quickly with a test.sbs on the device). By the way - should .sbs files outside the .rockbox/wps folder work? Because loading the same one when it was located in the root lead to no statusbar at all, it worked after moving it into this folder
20:49:52	JdGordon\|	its the same as .wps outside the folder
20:49:58	JdGordon\|	they work untill being rebooted
20:50:16	pixelma	then that seems to be broken
20:50:30	JdGordon\|	any images it cant find?
20:51:01	Blue_Dude	saratoga: I'll give FS #10605 a test run on my e200 for a while. A quick suggestion re: the line in playback that was moved. It would probably be cleaner to move the line to audio_finish_load_track itself rather than the audio thread.
20:51:29		Quit stoffel (Remote closed the connection)
20:51:57	pixelma	no, it just contains a viewport definition for the statusbar (to get a system font one), a %Rb inside that and a %Vi for the rest of the screen to get the user font there
20:53:21	*	pixelma also wonders whether someone read the remote statusbar question from today in the morning (CET)
20:53:23	*	JdGordon\| suspects onplay.c handling is broken
20:53:41	JdGordon\|	if that someone is supposed to be me then no :)
20:54:06	pixelma	you or kugel
20:54:21	JdGordon\|	link or reask?
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20:55:19	pixelma	loaded a custom sbs in an H300 sim for the main screen and it made the statusbar in the remote screen vanish, any reason for that?
20:55:38	JdGordon\|	I belive thats a known bug...
20:55:57	JdGordon\|	kkurbjun : has a FS task open with 3 or 4 sbs/wps type bugs
20:56:38	*	gevaerts doesn't like those multi-bug tasks
20:57:05	pixelma	hmm, I thought there were some fixes (but maybe not all)
20:57:33	JdGordon\|	that bug probably wont be fixed
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20:57:46	JdGordon\|	it will simply vanish once the pold bar is eliminated
20:58:19	pixelma	if it doesn't also make any custom rsbs vanish
20:58:22		Quit phanboy4 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:58:26	JdGordon\|	it wont
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21:24:50	shotofadds	If I wanted to add an indication of the touchscreen mode to the status bar, how would I do that? Presumably this needs to touchscreen variant of classic_statusbar.sbs to avoid breaking other targets?
21:24:55	*	shotofadds gets scared off
21:25:07	shotofadds	s/to/a
21:26:20	JdGordon\|	add a new token to the enum, and the table at the top of skin_parser.c, then in skin_tokens.c make it return NULL on non touch targets
21:26:29	pixelma	then it's not the classic statusbar anymore, no?
21:26:38	JdGordon\|	no :)
21:26:41		Quit tchan (Remote closed the connection)
21:27:21	pixelma	couldn't you just use the %St tag for that?
21:27:49	JdGordon\|	no, some screens force one mode
21:28:14	pixelma	ok
21:28:15	shotofadds	yes, the setting differs from the current mode sometimes :/
21:28:50	*	JdGordon\| should right up a quick wiki page on how to add tokens
21:28:52	shotofadds	this gets back to the discussion about how to deal with touchscreen variants of .wps's again. Really unsure about that.
21:29:13	JdGordon\|	which problem in particular?
21:29:38	shotofadds	how to pick up a touchscreen variant of a wps/sbs in preference to the generic version
21:29:43	shotofadds	in wpsbuild
21:30:01	shotofadds	iirc you were against adding an extra .touch or something to the filena,e
21:32:07		Join sacarasc [0] (i=sacarasc@xmms2/bitch/sacarasc)
21:32:25	sacarasc	Does Rockbox have an audio book mode?
21:32:38	JdGordon\|	I'm not against it.. I just think that doesnt make things easier
21:34:07	JdGordon\|	sacarasc: depends what your definition of audio book mode is
21:35:08	shotofadds	JdGordon: right now it makes it easier for me, but I can see why it doesn't help in the long run...
21:36:24	JdGordon\|	<theme name>[.<width>.<height>[.<depth]][.hwcodec][.swcodec][.fm][.touch][.<target name>].wps
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21:36:28	JdGordon\|	nice and complicated :)
21:36:34	JdGordon\|	surely there is a better way to do it?
21:36:57	JdGordon\|	like using features.txt and a similar thing to the lang files
21:38:25	shotofadds	I'm sure you're right ;-)
21:38:28	JdGordon\|	actually, we should say bugger it and only ship cabbie for all targets, and a dead simple theme which doesnt need a different vairent for each
21:38:35	JdGordon\|	everything else should come from the themes site
21:39:13	gevaerts	then the theme site needs this logic
21:39:31	gevaerts	but that one needs it anyway I guess
21:40:55	JdGordon\|	well, it would almost be the same logic
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22:13:49	saratoga	Blue_Dude: tell matsch, its his idea, i'm just testing it
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22:15:41	*	gevaerts wonders if saratoga got his PM from about a day and a half ago
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22:19:22	*	seani can't remember who recommended quodlibet as a desktop player, but it was a good call.
22:22:14	seani	B4dger: couldn't resist gently responding to @stomachion. I suspect it will make no difference, but still...
22:24:40	B4gder	:-)
22:25:18	kugel	saratoga: the code already contains a comment that is likely to be our problem?
22:25:20	shotofadds	JdGordon\|: why are some tokens #ifdef'd completely, but some just return NULL?
22:26:15	JdGordon\|	if there is a reason it sholdnt be in the build at all it gets ifdefed :)
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22:26:47	JdGordon\|	if it would be useful or not really change anything on targets where its not used it should stay in so themes can be shared
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22:27:46	shotofadds	eg. the touchscreen tokens, is it intentional that they exist for all builds?
22:28:28	shotofadds	if that were the case, I shouldn't need a touchscreen variant of the .wps/.sbs at all
22:29:11	JdGordon\|	you would anyway, because I could imagine alot of extra stuff in a touch variant
22:29:21	JdGordon\|	but no, there is no real reason they cant be in all builds
22:29:58	shotofadds	so there wouldn't be a problem adding a 'touch mode' icon to classic_statusbar?
22:30:09	shotofadds	since it would be ignored anyway
22:30:39	shotofadds	(i'm assuming here that classic_statusbar would be the default - such an icon definitely needs to be in the default)
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23:10:25	CIA-80	New commit by torne (r23658): Fix FS #10546 - metronome doesn't work on h1xx/h3xx. ...
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23:11:23	Torne	Does anyone have an ondio?
23:11:46	Torne	i think the metronome bug I just fixed in r23658 applies to ondio too, and i made the same fix, but can't test it ;)
23:12:08	LambdaCalculus37	Torne: pixelma has an Ondio.
23:13:17	Torne	build expected to complete in 62m?
23:13:18	Torne	what?
23:13:40	gevaerts	your clock is wrong
23:13:54	Torne	no it isn't
23:14:02	Torne	wait yes it is
23:14:07	Torne	how did that happen.
23:14:16	*	gevaerts is psychic
23:14:20	Torne	i have NTP on
23:14:21	*	B4gder whistles
23:14:35	gevaerts	wrong timezone setting?
23:14:48	Torne	nope, forcing it to resync just fixed the clock.
23:15:04	Torne	Oh, right. I expect both copies of windows changed the timezone.
23:15:19	Torne	anyway, if someone can try that on ondio that'd be good
23:15:24	Torne	it works on h120
23:15:33	Torne	and presumably on h300 as the keys are identical
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23:23:20	JdGordon\|	shotofadds: it might not be the default on all targets, but putting that icon in is no problem
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23:28:07	Blue_Dude	saratoga: On second thought, I'm not sure it belongs in the function. His code move apparently got the correct result, but from his comments it appears he's not 100% sure why. It probably belongs somewhere else.
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23:33:03	pixelma	Torne: metronome has button mapping problems since changing it to use pluginlib actions (and a more complicated tap and play handling) on the Ondio and the Player and c200. I don't think these small fixes help any (or fix one and introduce another bug with other actions or on other targets). You can test many of these mappings in a sim except some hardware specific limits like for X5 and M5 where button combos are electrically not possible
23:33:41	Torne	pixelma: The changes are specific to h1xx/3xx and ondio
23:33:48	Torne	so they can't break any other target
23:34:11	Torne	it's just fixing the mapping table used for those targets' special mappings so they pass onto the right context
23:34:23	pixelma	I don't think it'll make it work completely though
23:34:28	Torne	it does on h120/h300
23:34:36	Torne	and i can't see it making ondio worse
23:35:38	Torne	i dont' ahve anything set up to build sims (though i clearly should)
23:36:06	Torne	if you wanna fix it more then, er, go ahead :)
23:36:33	Torne	it was a trivial change, i'm not looking to rework it
23:36:33	pixelma	maybe it doen't make it worse but I have doubts you can use the plugin like you used to before pluginlib actions. The Ondio is very short of buttons, the plugin combines different contexts and you get "overlapping"
23:37:06	Torne	well maybe, but i didn't do that, and i am not particularly motivated to work out a solution for a player i don't have access to..
23:37:21	pixelma	I don't say you need to
23:37:23	AlexP	If it is so broken, why not just revert it to before it was changed for actions?
23:37:40	kugel	pixelma: you could test if the latest pla rework patch makes it any better (I hope it's in sync stiill)
23:40:24	pixelma	Torne: just that I doubt it'll make metronome work completely (and maybe I can't test if your change does anything at all in case some other button/action assignment has priority)
23:41:36	Torne	right. well, i just fixed the obvious bug :)
23:43:37	pixelma	AlexP: I think the problem was that the same commit also introduced a different "UI" a bit like different "screens" for tapping and playing, and some ports didn't exist by then. And there was a different idea for a solution (using actions but per plugin not in a lib, that hasn't happened until now though :\ )
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23:47:56	pixelma	kugel: will try... oh well...
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23:50:57	pixelma	AlexP: I think before you didn't have to press a button for playback - it just always played and you could still adjiust the timing with tapping
23:51:49	AlexP	OK - I've never used it myself :)
23:53:01	pixelma	you need one button/action less which makes it easier on targets without many better but you always had sound. I'm not a 100% sure it was like that but think so currently
23:53:25	pixelma	s/better/buttons (wonder how that happened)
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