#rockbox 2009-12-17

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#rockbox log for 2009-12-17

00:00:33	YoYoFreakCJ	but I think that even a quick formatting goes so far to change the byte sector formatting accordingly
00:01:16	gevaerts	The problem is that the disk itself doesn't tell you which sector size to use, and neither does the MBR, so you have to guess, and rockbox tries 512 bytes first. If there happens to be a valid FAT32 boot sector at that offset, rockbox tries that one first
00:01:48	gevaerts	And this offset is still far enough on the disk not to be overwritten by itunes
00:02:41	gevaerts	the easiest solution for this is to fully wipe the firmware partition (or the entire disk, but that will take ages), and then restore using itunes again
00:02:45	YoYoFreakCJ	so a firmware recoverz bz iTunes might not fix it_ is that what zou\|re sazing_
00:02:56	gevaerts	exactly
00:03:08	gevaerts	if at least this is what happened
00:03:12	YoYoFreakCJ	woopsy sorry
00:03:48	YoYoFreakCJ	I only see the one big "FREAKPOD" drive in my workstation. until a few minutes ago I didnt even know that there is a firmware partition "^^
00:04:58	*	gevaerts thinks
00:05:45	YoYoFreakCJ	even in the administration management thingy in the control panel I dont see any other partitions. is there a way to format it using windows?
00:06:05	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:06:10	gevaerts	probably. I don't know much about windows...
00:06:26	YoYoFreakCJ	when I get home I plan on using DBAN on it. if that doesnt kick it, I don't know how to find that partition
00:06:55	gevaerts	oh, if I'm right, dban will definitely fix it for you
00:07:16	YoYoFreakCJ	sounds good :3
00:07:42	YoYoFreakCJ	I guess Ill be cleaning up and going home then to try it out
00:07:50	*	gevaerts thinks that rockbox should be more robust against this case, but he can't think of a good way to achieve that
00:08:23	YoYoFreakCJ	isnt there a way to determine the sector size and act accordingly?
00:09:16	notlistening	is there a way to query the disc about that information?
00:09:44	gevaerts	notlistening: the disk always uses 512 byte sectors. It's a purely software thing
00:10:01	notlistening	oh ok :P
00:10:20	notlistening	teach me to come in half way trough
00:10:28	gevaerts	there are two ways. One is to look at the FAT bootsector, but that's a bit chicken-and-egg because you need to know the sector size to find that bootsector (this is what rockbox does, by trying 512, 1024 and 2048)
00:11:34	gevaerts	The other way would be to look at all partitions and at the total disk size, and then pick the sector size that matches best. That would break if you don't use all disk space for partitions though (and there are some reasons for doing that)
00:12:14	gevaerts	Or we could change the bootloader to try the next size if it finds a FAT but no files, but that requires some pretty invasive work...
00:12:52	YoYoFreakCJ	anyways, I'm going home now and try DBAN on it. thanks for the explanations so far
00:13:14	YoYoFreakCJ	byebye :)
00:13:45	gevaerts	notlistening: basically, the 5.5G uses 2048 byte sectors because the 80GB variant of it uses a disk that can't handle single-sector transfers, so the minimum transfer size is 1024 bytes, so using FAT with 512 byte sectors would not work well. I don't know why they then went to 2048 bytes though
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00:14:10	gevaerts	notlistening: over USB, the disk appears as 2048-byte sectors, so host OSes don't have this problem
00:14:11	notlistening	i know there are not to many users of speech but if the svn version is out of sync with the build version and you generate the voixe file using rbutil o seem to get problem with the voicing on the menu system
00:14:55	linuxstb	gevaerts: What about on the 80GB ipod - can/do we detect that feature of the disk?
00:15:23	*	linuxstb also wonders if the hwrevision (stored in a fixed location in flash ROM) could give a clue
00:15:37	gevaerts	linuxstb: no, it's all handled in the same way. However, since that one doesn't handle 512 byte transfers, I don't think you can actually format it wrong
00:16:22	linuxstb	gevaerts: Isn't it possible for a host OS to work around that?
00:16:54	gevaerts	hm
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00:18:10	linuxstb	Also, Apple have a different firmware for the 5.5G ipods (but just one), so maybe that's why all disks use 2048 byte sectors.
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00:18:32	gevaerts	Not using a 5.5G ipod. If you use something else, maybe, although I suspect that any usb thing will give you IO errors. Possibly it will work using an ATA adapter
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00:18:56	gevaerts	I mean, 1024 byte sectors would have worked fine
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00:19:29	gevaerts	but I guess nearly nobody uses those, so maybe HFS doesn't work on that
00:20:46	gevaerts	If we can reliably detect that we're on a 5.5G, I guess we could make use of that
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00:21:23	linuxstb	Anyone with a 5G or 5.5G ipod around?
00:21:25	*	linuxstb plugs in his 5G ipod to charge...
00:21:33	*	gevaerts has a 5G too, but it also needs charging...
00:21:41	*	gevaerts also needs sleep :(
00:22:13	gevaerts	GodEater has a 5.5G
00:22:28	*	DerPapst raises hand
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00:23:00	linuxstb	I'm pretty sure Rockbox reports the hardware revision (a 32-bit number) in the debug menu somewhere. We should check if the 5.5Gs have a different value there.
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00:24:35	DerPapst	5.5G HW rev. 0x000B0011
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00:25:36	linuxstb	My 5G is 0x000B0005
00:26:07	linuxstb	(Debug -> View HW info)
00:29:10	gevaerts	My 5G is 0x000B0005
00:30:55	linuxstb	So based on a sample of 3, it would work...
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00:31:17	gevaerts	If we use the information just to reverse the search order, it shouldn't actually break anything even if we get the check wrong
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00:32:33	linuxstb	gevaerts: Is there any need to search? If I'm understanding correctly, that number will tell itunes what firmware to install (5G or 5.5G), and it's that choice of firmware which determines the sector size.
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00:33:14	linuxstb	gevaerts: I'm sure people will soon shout if that assumption is wrong ;)
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00:34:12	gevaerts	linuxstb: for normal unmodified ipods, there's no need to search. However, the code is shared with other devices that might need this (the 240GB disks with 4096 byte sectors are one example), and I don't know what happens if you use a 5.5G ipod with a different disk and Torne's boot method...
00:34:14	sustineo	is there a way to rotate album art in the wps?
00:34:25	sustineo	(im making a grunge theme)
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00:35:03	linuxstb	DerPapst: Can you remember how IPL handled this? Was anything special needed, or did the kernel "just work" ?
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00:35:49	gevaerts	sustineo: no
00:36:04	DerPapst	linuxstb: iirc the driver worked "out of the box" but it assumed the wrong sectorsize.
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00:36:22	sustineo	tsk
00:36:24	sustineo	that sucks
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00:38:22	DerPapst	linuxstb: http://ipodlinux.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ipodlinux/trunk/linux/fs/partitions/msdos.c?r1=853&r2=856&pathrev=856
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00:39:18	gevaerts	ok, they also try all of them until they find one, except that they start at 2048
00:40:59	linuxstb	gevaerts: Could the case of other disks be handled by querying the disk's capabilities? Do you know anything about the changes in the unofficial "big disk" build that means it's not in svn?
00:41:01	gevaerts	That's also not 100% foolproof unfortunately. I suspect it's vulnerable to the same remains-of-old-filesystem problem, as well as a filesystem image that happens to be at the right place
00:41:34	gevaerts	linuxstb: I don't know the details. That's actually the main reason I'm hesitant
00:42:21	linuxstb	Current SVN doesn't appear to support those disks anyway, so we're not breaking anything...
00:43:27	gevaerts	hm, in extreme cases (or weird coincidences), trying 2048->1024->512 can also break with real valid filesystems, if you use exactly the right partition layout and multiple FAT partitions
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00:45:01	gevaerts	linuxstb: you could be right. I suspect amiconn knows though
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06:33:38	MikeJB	According to the iPod FAQ: it says 6G (Classic) isn't supported? What's the problem?
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06:41:50	*	Dhraakellian glances at since-4weeks.html
06:42:02	Dhraakellian	fixed in r24019?
06:43:37	Tekno_Cowboy	Hello, I have an iPod Video 5.5G, and I'm wondering if it's possible to use the themed USB mode that shows immediately after plugging in the USB cable. I have yet to find a setting that will prevent my ipod from rebooting into the black and white disk mode.
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07:19:17	Unhelpful	"themed usb mode"?
07:21:21	Tekno_Cowboy	When I first plug in the USB cable, a USB cable appears on the screen with the current theme applied. It then reboots into a very basic monochrome disk mode. I'd prefer to use the one that doesn't require a reboot.
07:22:01	Unhelpful	Tekno_Cowboy: what version or revision are you using?
07:23:29	Tekno_Cowboy	I'm using version 3.4, I'm not sure what revision.
07:25:27	amiconn	gevaerts, linuxstb: Current svn doesn't support those 4096-byte sectored disks, but I consider this a bug
07:26:29	amiconn	It's because our code simply assumes it has to use the disk's sector size, instead of probing whether the disk handles split sectors
07:26:55	Unhelpful	hrm, is usb enabled on ipod 5.5G in 3.4? MajorChanges seems to say that pretty much everything has rockbox usb enabled in 3.4, but i seem to recall otherwise :/
07:27:18	amiconn	Those 4096-byte sector disks do proper split sector handling, only the original 80GB G5.5 hdd doesn't
07:28:09	Unhelpful	ah, 5.5G is not among the PP chips mentioned in that list according to DeviceChart...
07:29:15	amiconn	So in order to use such a disk, one can either disable large disk sector support in rockbox, or increase the limit to 4096 bytes. The former method yeilds better performance iirc
07:29:42	Tekno_Cowboy	I see. That's too bad. Hopefully a future version will support it. Might I ask where you found the chart? I looked all over for it before trying IRC, with no luck.
07:29:43	Unhelpful	Tekno_Cowboy: it looks to me as though USB is not supported on your device in 3.4, although i'm not absolutely certain. have you tried a current build instead of the 3.4 release?
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07:30:28	Tekno_Cowboy	I have not tried a current build yet. How stable do the current builds tend to be?
07:30:36	Unhelpful	Tekno_Cowboy: the info i'm going by is here: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MajorChanges and here: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DeviceChart but i should point out that neither list is absolutely exhaustive.
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07:32:08	Unhelpful	Tekno_Cowboy: they're generally safe unless something broken has just been committed, and we try not to commit broken things and to fix them reasonably quickly. i've never had a release version installed on my devices, and they've pretty much only broken due to things i had changed myself.
07:35:04	Tekno_Cowboy	I'll try the current build and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, I can always revert to 3.4 and wait for the next release. Thanks for all yor help!
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08:29:46	bluebroth3r	B4gder: can you check the manuals? It seems they haven't been built at all, but they build fine for me.
08:47:10	CIA-6	New commit by jdgordon (r24037): code police and make do_menu() obey the hide_bars param which was never meant to be removed
08:48:03	JdGordon	do we have a stop scroll funciton which only stops the scrolling in a viewport? not the full display?
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08:52:06	CIA-6	New commit by jdgordon (r24038): only stop scrolling in the menu's viewport not the whole display (Fixes scrolling lines in sbs's being stopped when moving around menus)
08:52:24	JdGordon	apparently we do :)
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09:09:06	CIA-6	New commit by jdgordon (r24039): from FS #10771 - fix the clear backdrop option so it clears the full screen
09:09:49	*	GodEater sees no HWCODEC testing was done last night :(
09:10:48	JdGordon	what was the FS#?
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09:12:29	JdGordon	GodEater: I really dont like the idea of playback.c being compiled for hwcodec...
09:12:54	JdGordon	the better solution is to move that new code to another file all together, or duplicate it in mpeg.c
09:13:26	GodEater	which I believe is what pondlife said he'd do over a year ago and never did :)
09:13:26	JdGordon	especially when its 2 speerate code paths anyway
09:14:47	*	JdGordon is usually not one to object to a feature... but this one needs more work...
09:16:04	JdGordon	it could be cleaned up a fair bit.. the events arnt needed... they were only there because when it was first done mpeg.c was in firmware where events were required for it to work
09:16:20	*	GodEater would welcome help on it.
09:17:11	*	JdGordon will have a quick play
09:20:41	JdGordon	actually.. no I guess thats fine
09:20:54	JdGordon	but the code for the event should be in playlist.c or a new file
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09:22:43	GodEater	http://www.suomityres.fi/w106.htmlor maybe not....
09:22:43	JdGordon	too hot
09:22:55	GodEater	wtf
09:23:01	GodEater	how did that get into my copy buffer
09:23:07	JdGordon	the other chan :)
09:23:10	JdGordon	could be worse...
09:23:13	GodEater	yep, but I didn't copy it!
09:30:57	JdGordon	hmm.. does that patch work in the sim?
09:32:08	GodEater	it compiles into the sim, but I've not tested it. LinusN says there's a noticeable lag.
09:32:16	GodEater	but as he says, "who cares"? :)
09:32:27	JdGordon	it needs to work in the sim..
09:32:38	JdGordon	and it shouldnt lag.. the wps can pause fine
09:32:48	GodEater	in that case it probably needs a lot more work to find out why it lags
09:33:09	GodEater	and I'm not an expert by any means in the difference between the sound code in the sim vs. real rockbox
09:34:46	JdGordon	in swcodec.. there is no difference untill the pcm is ready to be dumped i think
09:35:37	GodEater	I've basically got not time left to look at it this week. Have too much paid work to do :(
09:36:21	JdGordon	ah yuck... this feature is a bit nasty
09:37:01	JdGordon	it works on target?
09:37:06	GodEater	yep
09:37:14	*	GodEater is running it on his ipod right now
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10:48:58	gevaerts	Unhelpful: USB is still disabled for releases on ipod because of the charging issues
10:50:12	Unhelpful	gevaerts: thanks, i couldn't recall the specifics. :)
10:52:11	gevaerts	for some reason we forgot that in the release notes though
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11:16:13	gibbon_	hiho
11:16:38	gibbon_	i was here yesterday for my build server rockhost2.jjim.de-gibbon_ being disabled due to disk quota problems
11:17:12	gibbon_	i saw mc2739 do a commit to unblock it, but it still gives me an error, that the client is blocked
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11:22:38	gevaerts	strange
11:22:49	*	gevaerts looks at Zagor
11:24:34	Zagor	gibbon_: a commit to unblock?
11:24:45	gevaerts	gibbon_: blockedclients
11:24:51	gevaerts	Zagor I mean
11:26:21	Zagor	ah, looked in the wrong place..
11:27:10	stripwax	anyone seen mt or saratoga recently?
11:27:49	gibbon_	Zagor: r24018
11:28:36	gibbon_	the quota problems are resolved and since build clients are the only way i can currently contribute, i would be glad, if that machine would work again
11:30:20	Zagor	yes. I'm looking at the build server to see why it bugs
11:31:03	gibbon_	thank you very much
11:37:45	amiconn	Zagor: Btw, the false duplicate client bug keeps showing up every now and then
11:38:00	gevaerts	ah, true. I also have a bug...
11:38:56	Zagor	amiconn: right, that was never resolved properly
11:39:21	CIA-6	New commit by zagor (r24040): Clear blocklist before reading file
11:39:34	gevaerts	Zagor: I get "Server message: Fatal build error: Missing log file. You have been temporarily disabled" regularly
11:39:39	amiconn	Hmm, and I keep getting *** Subversion error! in my log now...
11:40:10	amiconn	Hmm, Repository locked... how do I fix this?
11:40:29	funman	svn unlock ?
11:40:37	gevaerts	svn cleanup I think
11:40:50	Unhelpful	cleanup should usually do the trick
11:45:19	amiconn	That helped, thanks
11:46:14	*	amiconn would like an active monitoring method
11:47:06	gibbon_	Zagor: thanks a lot, i am properly connected again :)
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12:41:00	*	roolku gets that as well: "Server message: Fatal build error: Missing log file. You have been temporarily disabled"
12:42:01	roolku	would it be possible to re-enable it from the server side? It get's annoying having to restart the servers (and to monitor them all for that matter)
12:42:41	roolku	that was for Zagor −−^
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13:04:22	Zagor	roolku: the temporary block now only lasts 10 minutes
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13:24:48	roolku	Zagor: thanks I'll keep an eye on it
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13:28:18	fml	GodEater: Hello. Now that I read keymap tables not horizontally (row by row, as a sentence), but rather as tables (key: abc, action: xyz) I think that it might be better to use the do-form :-)
13:29:58	AlexP	I would prefer that
13:30:04	AlexP	As would linuxstb
13:30:25	AlexP	I was too late to say so yesterday, as what discussion there was happened when I wasn't there
13:30:45	fml	AlexP: I wouldn't object too. Now we have to convince GodEater
13:31:14	fml	AlexP: No sorries. We can still change that :)
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13:34:02	GodEater	I don't take much convincing
13:34:39	fml	Shall we strat a poll on that?
13:35:05	GodEater	I think just do what AlexP /linuxstb said
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13:47:11	fml	GodEater, AlexP, linuxstb: should the actions end with a full stop? I'd unify this as well.
13:47:38	GodEater	since I got the answer wrong yesterday, I'll pass the buck to linuxstb / AlexP ;)
13:48:13	fml	I feel like they should not since these are not full sentences, but... ^^ :-)
13:48:33	linuxstb	fml: haha, I was going to say the opposite...
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13:49:50	linuxstb	fml: From a consistency point of view, it's probably easier to always have a full stop. Otherwise, you leave it to the author's judgement to decide if a sentence is "full" or not.
13:49:57	fml	linuxstb: there are some cases where a full stop would be needed because there are some additions to the action description. And that should be separated somehow.
13:55:12	GodEater	A semi colon.
13:55:19	GodEater	it's underused in written english!
13:55:29	GodEater	I think we should make it our mission to remedy that.
13:56:23	fml	I also saw something like "Move about the virtual keyboard." SHouldn't it be "move _around_ ..."?
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13:59:36	CIA-6	New commit by teru (r24041): Update virtual keyboard manual.
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14:11:24	AlexP_lab	I'm not sure about the full stop :)
14:11:59	AlexP_lab	I would probably say not, but I'm not too bothered
14:12:26	AlexP_lab	fml: And yes, I saw that too - it should be move around
14:12:42	linuxstb	What about this page for example - what should not have a full stop? http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-390004
14:13:05	AlexP_lab	move about the keyboard could suggest that it is the keyboard that you are moving
14:13:38	AlexP_lab	linuxstb: yes, I agree it is tricky
14:13:46	AlexP_lab	linuxstb: Let's go for full stop
14:14:16	AlexP_lab	On reflection I think that those that don't have it that should will look more odd than those that do have it but some people think might not need it
14:17:30	stripwax	AlexP_lab - re "move about the keyboard" - didn't teru's change a few minutes ago fix that?
14:17:55	stripwax	now reads "Moves the cursor on the virtual keyboard"
14:19:00	AlexP_lab	ah, didn't see that
14:25:42	fml	Ok, the patch is in the FS (FS #10861). Please look at it. I did it in a half automatic mode :-)
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14:28:16	AlexP_lab	heh, will do
14:28:28	AlexP_lab	It might have to be a bit later though
14:29:20	Zagor	why is recorderv2 and fmrecorder sharing manual when ondiosp and ondiofm doesn't?
14:31:32	linuxstb	Zagor: Don't some recv2's have radio?
14:31:41	Zagor	aha, do they?
14:32:31	*	linuxstb seems to recall they do, but wouldn't bet his house on it
14:33:27	linuxstb	Yes, seems they do - the config file for the recv2 defines CONFIG_TUNER
14:33:40	Zagor	ok, thanks
14:36:18		Quit xavieran (Client Quit)
14:37:54	linuxstb	Zagor: I don't know if you have any time/desire to fix it, but the old releases are not available via the website. The "old releases" link on http://www.rockbox.org/download/ goes to very old releases (and not in a nice way...). I guess at the very least, that link could go to http://download.rockbox.org/release/
14:39:29	Zagor	yeah I saw that just the other day too
14:44:11	CIA-6	New commit by mcuelenaere (r24042): Enable backlight brightness in simulator
14:44:45	Zaba	that's a nice revision number
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14:53:30	CIA-6	New commit by zagor (r24043): Renamed special archosrecorderv2fm manual build to standard archosfmrecorder.
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14:58:31	Jonathan__	Hey, I'm thinking about installing rockbox for my Fuze V1, what are the chances of it messing up and destroying my player?
15:00
15:00:08	Jonathan__	and also, if the firmware does mess up, are there ANY chances of reinstalling the old firmware and being able to use it again?
15:00:13	Zaba	well, it's not a bomb, so the odds are that it lacks proper circuity to explode anyway.
15:00:24	Jonathan__	lol... j
15:00:41	Jonathan__	um, it can still brick my player though... right?
15:01:05	krazykit	if you follow the instructions for installation it's very unlikely that it will brick your player
15:01:24	krazykit	however, there's no recovery mechanism like the e200 series
15:01:54	Jonathan__	if I do a duel boot and the firmware does mess up... can I still boot into the old one?
15:02:08	Jonathan__	brb
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15:04:08	Jonathan__	ok, I'm back, sorry about that
15:04:23	Jonathan__	if I do a duel boot and the firmware does mess up... can I still boot into the old one?
15:04:57	krazykit	it's already set as a dual-boot. so no, if it gets bricked, it's now a crummy paperweight
15:05:01	linuxstb	In theory yet - the dual boot feature is very reliable (but we offer no guarantees).
15:05:07	linuxstb	s/yet/yes/
15:05:23	Jonathan__	hmm, conflicting answers...
15:05:38	Zaba	in short, if the bootloader doesn't get messed up, you should be fine..
15:05:45	*	linuxstb doesn't understand krazykit's answer
15:06:06	Jonathan__	if I get it installed and it's working, is there a chance its going to die later?
15:06:09	krazykit	i should clarify. if the bootloader installation gets messed up, then you're in trouble
15:06:13	Jonathan__	or is it mostly during the install process
15:06:16	Jonathan__	ok, thanks
15:06:28	CIA-6	New commit by mcuelenaere (r24044): Only do BACKLIGHT_FADING_SW_SETTING in simulator (fixes red)
15:06:46	linuxstb	Jonathan__: Short answer is that 100s (possibly 1000s) of people have installed Rockbox on a fuze without problems, and we've designed it to be as safe as we can, but we don't guarantee anything.
15:07:06	krazykit	if a certain revision of rockbox doesn't work, you can easily boot into the original firmware and unzip a working build over it without issue
15:07:16	Jonathan__	ok, thanks guys
15:07:30	Jonathan__	I just don't have the money to replace it right now lol
15:08:21	Jonathan__	I suppose I will try it then. one more question. How big is it installed? I only have a 2GB mp3 player... will it fit ok?
15:09:51	krazykit	it's only a couple MB, so it'll fit no problem
15:09:58	Jonathan__	ok, cool. thanks
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15:17:54	Jonathan__	thanks for your help guys, I suppose I will probably be on later with more problems lol. cya guys
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15:22:18	CIA-6	New commit by mcuelenaere (r24045): Don't do fading in simulator on targets with BACKLIGHT_FADING_PWM or BACKLIGHT_FADING_TARGET (should fix red)
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16:05:01	fml	mcuelenaere: I'm playing with a freshly build sim for sansa e200. After the backlight goes off it doesn't go on anymore, even if I press a button.
16:05:12	fml	*built
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16:16:26	kugel	fml: that's because of sim_backlight(old_val); old_val is 0 since backlight fading uses _backlight_set_brighthness()
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16:17:18	kugel	try to normalize backlight_brightness (that's a global variable) and use that in _backlight_on()
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16:21:29	kugel	IIRC _backlight_on() shouldn't even change any brightness. it should just enable needed registers which doesn't apply for the sim
16:22:03	kugel	so, removing that line entirely (or rather putting it into an #if as the e200's target backlight driver does) should do it
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16:37:53	CIA-6	New commit by Ubuntuxer (r24046): Hide menu entries "Resume Game" and "Quit without Saving" if not available and clean up the code
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16:45:31	kugel	Ubuntuxer: I think your change is buggy
16:45:54	kugel	I also don't like how you ignore the comment and just make the delay caused by the splash longer
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16:47:10	kugel	Ubuntuxer: see logs :)
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17:01:18	kaniini	is there a GUI front end to code rockbox?
17:02:55	DogBoy	heh
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17:07:16	kaniini	in windows enviroment
17:07:30	Bagder	kaniini: your favourite editor
17:07:31	AlexP_lab	kaniini: Sure, notepad, etc
17:07:55	*	AlexP_lab is not suggesting for a minute that notepad should be used by the way :)
17:08:26	kaniini	so, the source can be opened in notepad and it's not gibberish?
17:08:28	kaniini	cool :)
17:08:42	AlexP_lab	Of course - source is just text
17:08:53	Bagder	parts of it will probably be considered gibberish by some... :-)
17:08:57	kaniini	:P
17:09:57	kaniini	with gibberish i meant that it's readable w/o a dedicated software
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17:10:26	AlexP_lab	Rockbox is just C (bits of assembly)
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17:38:27	notlistening	FlynDice, hey formatted full buld from svn last night and it started to work again now after a night being left on same issue with the Panic message
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17:54:27	tomers	Hey, I have a question regarding manual: Should it say "Menu or Power", or "Menu, or Power". And "Menu, Down or Power" or "Menu, Down, or Power" ?
17:56:13	linuxstb	You don't use ", or" (IMO)
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17:57:27	tomers	If I have 3 different buttons that does the same thing, should I use "X or Y or Z", or "X, Y or Z"?
17:58:12	notlistening	second
17:58:22	*	linuxstb agrees
17:58:55	tomers	Thanks
17:59:00	pixelma	in the text or in tables?
17:59:29	tomers	pixelma: Good point. Should I use it differently depending on the context?
17:59:32	linuxstb	pixelma: Does it matter?
18:00
18:00:21	linuxstb	But where do three buttons all do the same thing? That doesn't sound sensible...
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18:03:14	tomers	linuxstb: Just asking... I'm reviewing something in the manual. But for touchscreen targets, it could be like: Menu, Minus, Center or BottomMiddle
18:03:42	tomers	Because the two options (two buttons) becomes 4 options (2 buttons, 2 touch regions)
18:04:45	pixelma	in the tables those lists of buttons are usually seperated by /
18:05:34	linuxstb	pixelma: I was just looking at that, and that convention seems to be used for things like "Scroll forward / Scroll back" - i.e. two different actions listed in the same row of the table.
18:05:49	linuxstb	(not two buttons doing the same thing)
18:05:59	pixelma	hmm... true
18:06:13	linuxstb	e.g. here - http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-410004.1.1
18:06:23	linuxstb	"or" is used for two alternative buttons, and "/" is two different actions
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18:06:46	JdGordon\|	does anyone know why audio_pause() blocks? I cant of any reason it needs to...
18:06:53	tomers	Also, for this cause, in LaTex, should I use \ButtonX{} / \ButtonY, or somehow else, as there's in some places - \ButtonX\ / \ButtonY?
18:07:05		Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
18:07:29	pixelma	I think I rememenber seeing "or" a lot too
18:07:49	pixelma	remember too
18:08:13	AlexP_lab	Definitely "x, y or z"
18:08:33	tomers	pixelma: There's a lot of 'or' in the Cowon D2 manual, and I'm not sure it is correct
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18:09:24	linuxstb	tomers: This looks OK - http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-cowond2/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-370004.1.1
18:09:38	linuxstb	"or" is used for alternatives, and "/" is used for different actions
18:10:08	linuxstb	Although some way to differentiate touches from button presses would make it clearer.
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18:10:39	tomers	The first sentence in Minesweeper manual page looks totally obsolete. Am I wrong? http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodcolor/rockbox-buildch11.html#x14-19000011.1.16
18:11:53	pixelma	I think the second sentence is obsolete as this is now set through a menu
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18:13:03	pixelma	tomers: also be careful - not all touchscreen devices also have additional physical buttons
18:13:05	tomers	linuxstb: Regarding the link you gave, shouldn't the slash have to be spaced? i.e. '\X{} / \Y', not just '\X{}/\Y' or even '\X{}\ \Y'?
18:13:39	fml	tomers: even better, use ButtonA~/ButtonB, i.e. a ~ instead of space before the /. This will prevent a line break before / which looks strangely in tables.
18:13:40	tomers	pixelma: I'm only working on the Cowon for now. Therefore using COWON_D2_PAD, not 'touchscreen'
18:14:15	tomers	fml: Good tip! I guess you mean \ButtonA{}~/~\ButtonB ?
18:14:17	linuxstb	tomers: To be honest, I'm not sure. What about the "/" in "previous/next" ?
18:14:29	tomers	linuxstb: I'm not sure either
18:14:59	tomers	that's why I'm asking (in contrary to how I behaved two days ago :- )
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18:16:18	tomers	So everyone agrees \ButtonA{}~/~\ButtonB for alternative buttons? (i.e. left/right)
18:17:43	tomers	pixelma: So in Minesweeper, should I delete the sentence: "Use Scroll Forward/Scroll Backward to select the required percentage of mines to set the difficulty then press the Select key to begin."?
18:18:27	fml	tomers: I think the second ~ is not needed because table columns are rather narrow. Tex will have problems with breaking lines or will have high penalties.
18:19:09	fml	Also I think we should change our macros so that a line break is possible within a button (I'm not sure if it's possible now)
18:19:18	tomers	fml: \ButtonA{}~/ \ButtonB ? If there's a consensus here, I like to go over the manual and change...
18:19:40	tomers	fml: The button macro only changes the font
18:19:54	fml	tomers: I would do it like that but I'm not god (yet ;-)
18:20:10	tomers	but maybe I'm wrong here
18:21:16	fml	tomers: if you use ~ you don't need the {} after ButtonA. But they do no harm either.
18:22:18	fml	tomers: I put up a patch that reverts the yesterday's commit. Are you aware of that? (Before you start making your changes)
18:22:37	tomers	fml: You mean the 'does' patch?
18:23:06	*	linuxstb reads that a "/" should have spaces if the things it is separating have spaces - so "Scroll forward / Scroll backwards" and "previous/next" and think's that's reasonable.
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18:24:06	fml	tomers: yes, I mean that patch. Not everybody (including me) was happy about that
18:24:21	tomers	linuxstb: So for example \ButtonMinus/\ButtonPlus, but \TouchMidLeft~/~\TouchMidRight ?
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18:24:46	tomers	fml: It was a big mistake of me to commit it :-( I'll behappy if you can fix it
18:24:50	linuxstb	tomers: It depends if those macros expand to include spaces.... ;)
18:25:34	fml	linuxstb: I'd always use spaces to be on the safe side
18:25:55	linuxstb	fml: Although maybe if you post a patch and you don't think it's ready for immediate commit, it would be a good idea to say that on the tracker?
18:25:56	tomers	linuxstb: Indeed. It translates to Minus/Plus, and Middle Left / Middle Right. Is that OK?
18:26:11	linuxstb	fml: Yes, perhaps...
18:27:01	fml	linuxstb: technically it was ready to commit. But it was a question of style and taste.
18:28:29	CIA-6	New commit by tomers (r24047): Mosaic: Add Cowon D2 keymaps, and update manual
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18:31:00	CIA-6	New commit by tomers (r24048): Manual: Remove obsolete instructions for Mine-Sweeper
18:32:58	tomers	Can you please approve that the 'Menu Control' section for Wormlet is obsolete? http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodcolor/rockbox-buildch11.html#x14-21000011.1.33
18:33:27	tomers	it is obsolete since now this game has a menu
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18:39:00	CIA-6	New commit by tomers (r24049): Manual: Fix spacing
18:39:40	CIA-6	New commit by tomers (r24050): Manual: Fix missing key mapping for Cowon D2 in stats
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18:54:25	CIA-6	New commit by tomers (r24051): Manual: Add missing Cowon D2 key to Wormlet section, and change phrasing
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19:04:19	CIA-6	New commit by tomers (r24052): Cowon D2: Map ACTION_WPS_BROWSE to BUTTON_MINUS\|BUTTON_POWER because you sometimes hit it by accident when turning off hold feature. ...
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19:11:09	Jonathan__	Hey, I'm back with another question or two
19:12:01	Jonathan__	I read that installing rockbox will destroy my ability to play DRM protected music. I do two things that I think may be DRM protected.
19:12:27	kugel	tomers: what is the "hold feature"?
19:12:42	kugel	the second entry in the keymap file seems unneeded
19:13:01	Jonathan__	one, I use the overdrive media console to check out audio books on the more system.
19:13:38	kugel	Jonathan__: target?
19:13:53	Jonathan__	two, I might buy a couple songs off of itunes. I would burn them to a CD then rip them back on to the player. are either of these things DRM protected?
19:14:01	Jonathan__	not sure what you mean
19:14:21	Jonathan__	http://dbooks.wplc.info/EE47786B-35AD-4771-A771-E45307AE677B/10/355/en/Default.htm this is where I would get them from
19:14:22	topik	rockbox doesn't break drm on the fuze anymore
19:14:26	kugel	which player do you use?
19:14:26	Jonathan__	oh
19:14:29	Jonathan__	Fuze
19:14:32	Jonathan__	v1
19:14:45	Jonathan__	sweet, I am definetly going to get rockbox
19:14:57	kugel	well, I don't think we can guarantee that it doesn't break DRM
19:15:08	Jonathan__	oh, but it most likely won't?
19:15:08	tomers	kugel: When you release to hold button (not 'feature', oops, taken wording from the guy in the forum thread), you might slide the button too much, and accidentally press hold
19:15:11	topik	rockbox won't play those drm files though, you need to go back to the original firmware for that
19:15:23	Jonathan__	oh
19:15:37	kugel	we had that problem indeed, but IIRC it went away after fixing the internal clock. I'm not too sure since we haven't much users that use DRM'd files
19:15:38	Jonathan__	so the overdrive media console stuff is out on rockbox?
19:15:38	topik	there are few guarantees in life. rockbox shouldn't break the original firmware's ability to play drm files any more
19:16:06	topik	people on the sansa forums reported it (drm files) works fine for them now
19:16:09	kugel	and 0 developers
19:16:27		Quit Zarggg ()
19:16:32	Jonathan__	do you know if burning Itunes music to a CD and ripping it back will destroy the DRM?
19:16:39	topik	Jonathan__: yes it will
19:16:45	Jonathan__	thanks topik
19:16:55	kugel	it will remove it
19:17:28	topik	Jonathan__: holding the 'left' button will boot your fuze into the original firmware even when rockbox is installed
19:17:36	topik	you can still play your infected files there then
19:17:54	topik	holding left while you turn it on that is
19:17:55	Jonathan__	ok, thanks. This rockbox thing is going to be so much fun lol
19:18:24	tomers	kugel: The second line is needed, since you might press Minus for too long, before sliding the power switch to press Power
19:18:40	tomers	kugel: I've just tested it...
19:19:40	kugel	what an awkward combo anyway
19:19:49	Jonathan__	lol
19:20:17	*	kugel would be annoyed if he needed to do this
19:20:25	tomers	kugel: Indeed, but it's usable. We have only 3 buttons (-/+/Menu), and a sliding button which serves both as Power and Hold
19:21:08	tomers	kugel: Using the D2 in your pocket, you'll realize it is needed :-)
19:21:47	kugel	going to the filebrowser isn't something you do from the pocket, is it?
19:21:53	Jonathan__	I can't wait to try doom on a fuze lol... its gonna be weird.
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19:23:21	kugel	Jonathan__: and short, only the first level works IIRC
19:23:32	Jonathan__	awww
19:23:37	Jonathan__	what's wrong with the other ones?
19:23:53	kugel	not enough RAM
19:24:32	Jonathan__	awww, do other wads work better?
19:24:36	Jonathan__	like free doom?
19:24:53	tomers	kugel: You got a point... But still you get it out of your pocket, look at the screen, realizing it is on hold (black screen), and put it out of hold. You may accidentally press Power this way, thus going to latest browsed dir. Going back to WPS requires hitting the WPS combo, or going up the path to the main menu, and press 'Now Playing' list item...
19:24:55	Hillshum	kugel: I was able to get to higher levels on my e200v2
19:25:04	kugel	I was talking about freedoom, I don't know how other wads work
19:25:04	topik	doom on your fuze is a nice gimmick but not something you'll be dedicating your life to
19:25:17	Jonathan__	hmm,
19:26:14	kugel	Hillshum: maybe it depends on what core features you enable (some take additional RAM after enabling)
19:27:13	Jonathan__	I'm just looking for something to waste time on on a car trip
19:27:22	Jonathan__	I can disable features to play it, that's no problem
19:27:24	topik	i hope you won't be the one driving
19:27:31	Hillshum	kugel: Although one of the higher levels doesn't quite work
19:28:50	Jonathan__	lol... I'm 13
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19:32:43	AlexP	"Shutdown" or "Shut down"?
19:34:09	Jonathan__	alright guys, thanks for your help, I'll be back :)
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19:40:57	stripwax	saratoga/mt (for the logs) - I updated my patch (on top of mdctexp branch), vorbis and wma now using the new mdct. vorbis about 25% slower (~10MHz) on ipod 5g. Take a look, see what you think. Few changes to the actual new mdct (mostly cosmetic, sharing tables across scopes, etc)
19:41:19	stripwax	(and currently running a test_codec comparison to check)
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19:44:20	saratoga	stripwax: have you looked in much detail at how the tremor IMDCT works now?
19:45:04		Quit tomers ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091109125225]")
19:46:33	stripwax	saratoga - in what sense? I have a 'vague' feel for it, given that it's based on an algorithm I haven't read about much. www.nothings.org/stb_vorbis is useful for understanding the algo a bit
19:47:39	saratoga	stripwax: i'm trying to understand how the trig tables it uses work without much success
19:47:46	saratoga	they seem really odd to me
19:48:06	stripwax	aren't they just cos tables, used with offsets for different values of N ?
19:48:43	stripwax	saratoga- in mdct.c, why is revtab0 created/setup ? doesn't seem to be being used at all
19:48:45	notlistening	FlynDice, hey formatted my e200v2, full build from svn last night and it started to work again now after a night being left on same issue with the Panic message
19:48:58	saratoga	stripwax: i think its ffmpeg baggage
19:49:13	FlynDice	notlistening: Thanks for doing the format thing and checking. I left mine on all night also and even though it is working just fine I have found some more corrupted playlist_control files. I'm going to revert the 4 bit widebus for now and see if I can do some investigating
19:49:17	saratoga	stripwax: the tremor imdct does some neat tricks with the trig tables
19:49:36	FlynDice	lol was just writing to you before you posted ;-)
19:49:38	saratoga	for instance they use the same trig tables for both rotation and DFT
19:49:51	saratoga	which i didn't think was possible without a large reduction in accuracy
19:49:57	stripwax	neat-ish, I guess. I thought it was just one table of cos(iPI/n) for largest n, and then the loops step through it at different speeds
19:50:18	stripwax	not sure how many other trig tables you would even need .. ?
19:50:33	stripwax	does ffmpeg have multiple different trig tables?
19:50:46	saratoga	stripwax: it does
19:51:40	stripwax	so ... maybe I've changed something in my patch, but there's only one fsincos function afaict.
19:52:01	saratoga	theres a table of cos/sin (2 * M_PI * i / n ) and another of cos/sin (2 * M_PI * (i + 0.125) / n)
19:52:24	saratoga	that factor of 0.125 is really annoying
19:53:52	stripwax	umm
19:55:23	stripwax	isn't that just the same as 2M_PIi /n+ 2 * M_PI0.125/n = 2M_PI*i/n + M_PI/4n ? Which could be implemented as an offset into the same table, I think? (provided table is of size 4n..)
19:55:36	stripwax	oh but I guess that's kinda wasteful
19:56:48	saratoga	i think theres some way to fold those two together
19:57:07	saratoga	i just can't see how Tremor does it
19:57:17	stripwax	saratoga - actually vorbis appears to have two tables too.
19:57:43	saratoga	yeah but they're really just two halves of the same table
19:57:58	saratoga	you could merge them into one table sampled twice as densely
19:58:12	stripwax	Suppose that's true
19:58:22	saratoga	but i think thats somehow the trick
19:58:30	saratoga	they've massively oversampled those two tables
19:58:32	notlistening	FlynDice, seems that it might be the playlists issue as well here for me based on the files that are corrupt
19:58:43	stripwax	where in the new mdct does it use that 0.125 offset?
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19:58:57	saratoga	stripwax: mdct.c
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19:59:25	stripwax	hm, I can't see it
19:59:51	saratoga	cos(2iPI/4096) and cos((2i+1)PI/4096) together are equal to cos(2iPI/8192)
20:00
20:00:00	saratoga	which seems way oversampled
20:00:05	saratoga	stripwax: fixed32 ip = itofix32(i) + 0x2000;
20:00:13	saratoga	0x2000 in fixed is 0.125
20:00:45	saratoga	so its computing cos(2(i+0.125)PI/4096), although the code is quite hard to see that from
20:00:46	stripwax	Oh. But there's still only one table no? tsin0 and tcos0 adding up to 2048 entries in total. Or am I missing the other tables?
20:00:50	CIA-6	New commit by alex (r24053): FS #10861 - Use the 'do' form everywhere in key descriptions, and that with a full stop. ...
20:00:56	FlynDice	notlistening: I though it was just playlist_control files but now I'm not sure. I'm also missing several of the database_X.tcd files which seem to be overwritten with bad files
20:01:00	saratoga	stripwax: yes but they're not shared with fft.c
20:01:05	saratoga	it has its own trig tables
20:01:09	stripwax	ah.. gotcha
20:02:10	saratoga	the weird thing is that for an N point transform, we do cos(2iPI/N)
20:02:31	saratoga	tremor does something like cos(2iPI/(N*4))
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20:02:59	stripwax	yeah, it's symmetrical if there's no offset
20:03:02	saratoga	so actually i'm not even sure if we use more memory then Tremor since i think our tables are smaller
20:03:55		Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Leaving")
20:04:00	saratoga	well right now we're bigger, but thats because we compute 2x as many points instead of only computing the parts of sin and cos that aren't symmetric like Tremor does
20:04:07	saratoga	but thats easy enough to fix
20:04:09	stripwax	yep
20:04:27	saratoga	ha just noticed this: // PJJ optimize
20:04:30	stripwax	Anyway, would be great if you could take a look at the patch I added to FasterMDCT page
20:04:33	saratoga	some of pauls old WMA code crept in
20:04:45	saratoga	stripwax: i skimmed it, anything in particular?
20:05:09	stripwax	some rearrangement of code between mdct.c/h and fft-ffmpeg.c/fft.h
20:05:17	stripwax	plus changes to wma and vorbis codecs to use the new mdct
20:05:24	notlistening	What i see as i have speech enabled is that progressively more and more becomes innaccessible on my unit. Trying any playback by selecting a file then choosing play causes a panic. Speech works menu entries and then breaks when it tries to use the .talk files maybe related to
20:05:38	stripwax	I don't know anything about wma; my changes were largely uncommenting existing commented-out code
20:06:26	saratoga	stripwax: you're asking how to clean it up to commit it?
20:06:29	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:06:45	stripwax	No, if you don't want to look at it I'll happily commit it anyway :)
20:06:53	saratoga	haha
20:07:11	saratoga	well i'm getting ready to head out to europe for the holidays, so i'm a little busy
20:07:19	notlistening	I will add an entry on flyspray on the exisiting patch and give what i have seen in detail
20:07:50	stripwax	saratoga - anywhere in particular in europe
20:07:50	saratoga	but if you want to keep working on this, a neater way to call the init functions would be nice
20:08:04	notlistening	but a thai meal is calling me now :D
20:08:10	saratoga	Naples, Rome
20:08:19	notlistening	saratoga, nice
20:08:21	saratoga	unfortunately i'll have limited internet access
20:08:27	notlistening	i am off to egypt ;)
20:08:47		Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
20:09:05	notlistening	saratoga, leave the internet behind its a holiday right?
20:09:09	topik	saratoga: does that mean taking a break from trying to educate people on the sansa fuze forum?
20:09:12	topik	they need you!
20:11:52		Quit notlistening ("Leaving")
20:14:00	saratoga	heh the helix code is little help here
20:14:16	saratoga	they do the 3 mul/ 3 add complex mul trick, which means they need even more tables then we do
20:14:20	saratoga	" cps2 = (cos+sin), sin2 = sin, cms2 = (cos-sin)"
20:17:03	saratoga	stripwax: helix does this for their mdct rotation stage: "angle = (i + 0.25) * M_PI / nmdct"
20:17:05	saratoga	same as ffmpeg
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20:17:25	stripwax	hrm, 0.125 or 0.25 ?
20:17:55	CIA-6	New commit by FlynDice (r24054): Sansa AMS: Revert 4 bit widebus ...
20:18:39	saratoga	stripwax: i think thats because they use PI instead of TWOPI like us
20:19:17	saratoga	huh they use a completely different set of tables for the post rotation "angle = i * M_PI / 1024;"
20:19:25	saratoga	i guess they don't have any targets with IRAM
20:19:57	stripwax	I can't help feeling it should be completely symmetric.. 2PI/8 = 45 deg; everything's symmetrical around that
20:20:17	stripwax	saratoga - maybe 1024 is their max nmdct and, again, they just step through it at different rates?
20:20:37	saratoga	https://helixcommunity.org/viewcvs/datatype/aac/codec/fixpt/decoder/real/trigtabs.c?revision=1.1.2.1&view=markup
20:21:18	stripwax	norhings.org didn't turn out to be useful - I think he has three separate trig tables, for different steps of the process
20:22:31	saratoga	yeah helix looks awful with memory usage
20:22:42	saratoga	but their code is extremely well commented and they explain their math
20:23:31	stripwax	It seems the reason they have two different trig tables is two different kinds of precision? Q30 and Q31
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20:24:49	saratoga	stripwax: that and I don't think the bigger table is an exactly oversampled version of the smaller
20:25:20	saratoga	right now in mdct.c we assume smaller transform sizes can just step through the bigger table in multiplies of 2, 4, 8 ...
20:25:28	saratoga	but thats actually not right
20:25:34	saratoga	so it hurts the snr and should be fixed
20:27:19	saratoga	somehow the version of the code used for the mdct lib lost this commit: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/codecs/libwma/mdct.c?r1=14941&r2=17783&pathrev=18000
20:29:13	saratoga	stripwax: basically theres a million things that need to be fixed in the mdct lib before its going to be fast, useful or accurate
20:29:21	stripwax	:)
20:29:30	saratoga	i would just pick things that look wrong and work on them without worrying about the other things
20:29:36	stripwax	but wait, I thought you/mt already checked for distortion in the mdct?
20:29:44	saratoga	yeah thats fixed
20:29:55	saratoga	but accuracy is still poor i think due to the above issue
20:30:01	stripwax	oh...
20:30:22	saratoga	well poor is relative
20:30:29	saratoga	probably something like 70dB SNR
20:30:45	saratoga	so i doubt anyone can hear the difference, but without that commit it was something like 150dB SNR
20:31:03	stripwax	you mean 'with' ?
20:31:09	saratoga	yeah sorry
20:31:17	saratoga	before I reverted it, we got 70dB or so
20:31:34	saratoga	thats even more confusingly worded
20:31:52	kugel	lol :)
20:31:53	stripwax	I think that makes sense because of the PI/4n offset thing. If the offset is done away with (by starting at a different place in the lookup rather than element 0), I think all the trig tables can be shared
20:32:21	saratoga	stripwax: i sat around trying that in matlab all day and got nowhere
20:32:25	markun	the commit was pretty careless of me :)
20:32:31	saratoga	haha
20:32:58	saratoga	markun: i did the same thing but double checked in matlab right before I commited it!
20:33:11	saratoga	then a couple months later checked the logs and saw you did it too
20:33:14	markun	hehe
20:33:33	saratoga	but it looks like Tremor does it now anyway!
20:33:41	saratoga	i wonder how accurate tremor is, i should test
20:33:46	stripwax	saratoga - But really, isn't it just cos(2PI(i+0.125)/n) = cos( (2PIi + PI/4 ) /n) = cos(2PI*(i+N/8)/n) ?
20:34:20	saratoga	let me get a pen and paper i suck at algebra
20:34:24	stripwax	and sin(2PIi/n) = cos(2PI(i+N/4)/n) ?
20:35:25	stripwax	Tremor's quite cute in this regard, because it basically iterates until it falls off the trig table; then reverses direction and iterates until it falls off the other end
20:35:53	stripwax	as long as you have the right number of iteration steps, it sorta doesn't matter what your initial starting point is (so long as you get it right ..!)
20:37:30	stripwax	For N=8, i=0..8, then: cos(2PI*i/N) = [1,s2,0,-s2,-1,-s2,0,s2,1] (where s2= sqrt(2))
20:37:48	saratoga	stripwax: i was thinking that the reason tremor used such a large N (basically 8192 between the two tables) was to minimize error while stepping through the table while neglecting the N/8
20:38:42	stripwax	cos(2PI(i+0.125)/N) = cos((2PIi+2PI/8)/N) = [s2,0,-s2,-1,-s2,0,s2,1] - i.e. shifted by one elem
20:39:34	stripwax	sin = [0,s2,1,s2,0,-s2,-1,s2,0]; shifted sin = [s2,1,s2,0,-s2,-1,-s2,0,s2]
20:39:43	stripwax	I think/hope, anyway
20:39:55	saratoga	i plotted in in matlab and that was not the case IIRC
20:40:02	stripwax	wish I had matlab :)
20:40:06	saratoga	they've very close but not the same
20:40:26	stripwax	hm.. can't see why not. was N a power of 2 and a multiple of 4?
20:40:48	saratoga	128, 256, 512 and 1024 are the commonly used values
20:40:58	stripwax	I mean when you plotted it in matlab
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20:41:43	saratoga	i plotted all of them, and they're close but not overlapping lines
20:41:47	saratoga	hold on, i'll do it again
20:42:21	*	stripwax downloads Octave..
20:42:52	saratoga	heres what i used: http://pastebin.com/m5cf40dd3
20:42:59	saratoga	i did a bunch of sizes
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20:43:57	stripwax	hang on .. what are you comparing with what there?
20:44:23	stripwax	I'm saying adding theta is equivalent to shifting the x-axis
20:44:51	saratoga	stripwax: I plotted the argument to cos computed for each size
20:45:00	saratoga	so i could measure the error in trying to resuse one table for all sizes
20:45:03	stripwax	whereas I think you're saying, for different N, cos(2PI*(I+theta)/N) is different. Which is true.
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20:45:56	saratoga	stripwax: i thought you meant you could shift the table values and reuse them?
20:46:11	stripwax	I'm saying cos(2PI(I+0.125)/128) for I+=1 is identical to cos(2PII/1024+2PI/8/1024) for I+=4
20:46:14	stripwax	or something
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20:48:51	saratoga	stripwax: so basically, that I can take an N point table, take every other element, and then shift which element is zero and get the N/2 table exactly?
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20:54:51	stripwax	yeah, something like that. So for N=8, the table with 0.125 offset starts one element in from the start of the table without the offset; for N=8, the 0.125 offset is two elements in from the start of the table without the offset; etc
20:54:58	stripwax	(again, I think/hope)
20:55:27	stripwax	So make N as big as you need, and you end up with all tables for both with+without offset versions for all n <= N
20:55:38	stripwax	provided N>=8, which it always is here
20:57:10	CIA-6	New commit by FlynDice (r24055): Sansa AMS: Fix Red. Write delay is not included for non HAVE_MULTIDRIVE.
20:57:35	saratoga	stripwax: [x,y]=(min(abs(alphas512(1)-alphas4096)))
20:57:51	saratoga	where alphasXYZ are the arguments to cos for that size table
20:58:08	saratoga	i get that the smallest difference between them is 1.9175e-004
20:58:26	saratoga	at an offset of 1 sample
20:59:16	saratoga	[x,y]=(min(abs(alphas128(1)-alphas4096))) gives an offset of 5 samples, but no better accuracy
20:59:49	saratoga	RMS error in that case is -76.2102 dB
20:59:56	saratoga	maybe thats good enough?
21:00
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21:03:33	*	gevaerts thinks that r24055 illustrates the need for more thinking about storage. Should HAVE_MULTIDRIVE really be used to see if the second slot on a controller is used? HAVE_MULTIDRIVE will also be true if someone uses that controller, one sd card, and one other storage device...
21:05:38		Quit solexx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:06:13	stripwax	saratoga - sorry, didn't follow that at all. I'm not a matlab kinda person
21:07:55	*	JdGordon\| volanteers gevaerts to fix that :)
21:07:55	stripwax	Ok so specifically for N=128: alpha[0]=2PI(0+1/8)/128 = (2*PI/8)/128.
21:09:36	stripwax	For N=1024: for a table without offsets, call it costab, costab[i] = 2PIi/1024
21:09:50	stripwax	So alpha[0] for N=128 = costab[8] for N=1024
21:09:59	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: I know :) There are more important issues, and the only place where this particular one would ever bite is if someone mods a clip to add an ATA interface or something like that, so it's probably not very urgent
21:10:05	stripwax	(or costab[1] for N=256, etc)
21:10:44	stripwax	Whereas you're comparing alpha for one N against alpha for another N. You need to compare alpha for one N against unshifted costab for some N.
21:13:43	stripwax	Actually I think my logic is all screwed up.
21:13:57	stripwax	Wish I had matlab :)
21:14:21	stripwax	You actually need an unshifted table of size N*8 for that to work
21:15:25	stripwax	i.e. alpha[0] for N=128 = costab[1] for N=1024 (not costab[8] - no idea where that came from)
21:17:50	stripwax	But you only need 1/8th the data anyway due to being able to reflect the trig data. So for N=2048, to get only unshifted cos/sin you need only 256 points (either cos or sin) ; and to get alpha func you need N'=2048*8=16384 BUT you still only need to store 1/8th data for the same reason => hence total 2048 points (either cos or sin) should get you everything you need
21:18:05	stripwax	and I think that is exactly what tremor is doing :-p
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21:40:11	Llorean	JdGordon\|: in regard to that flyspray task you just closed, mike's comment on the thread also simply says >>\| doesn't work (it doesn't say that seeking does work) so it's probably just party mode enabled, whereas this other person seems to get seeking when he tries to skip, so probably just has some hardware failure goin' on.
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21:40:38	JdGordon\|	ok
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21:42:02	gevaerts	any opinions on FS #8936?
21:42:15	JdGordon\|	its a rather rounded number :)
21:42:24	gevaerts	yes, but apart from that :)
21:43:10	JdGordon\|	fix bugs.. not requests :)
21:43:33		Part watto
21:43:49	Llorean	Close with "Works for me" or "Out of date"?
21:44:52	saratoga	stripwax: sorry had to go out, basically what that code does it take the difference of one argument to sign in the 128 entry table against all the arguments to sign in the 4096 table, and find the closest match
21:45:14	saratoga	and it finds that with the predicted offset you get almost but not exactly the correct value
21:45:23	gevaerts	I think so ("Out of date" anyway. "Works for me" isn't really the right response for rare hard to trigger bugs)
21:45:24	saratoga	and I estimated that you'd get about 14 bits accuracy if you used that method
21:45:34	saratoga	although its entirely possible I'm making some mistake
21:48:10		Join qwertz [0] (n=55b0f613@giant.haxx.se)
21:48:41	gevaerts	hm, FS #9093 looks like a simple patch for a stupid problem. Any database experts around to comment?
21:49:41	qwertz	Hi all ... got a problem with "could notopen Ipod" "konnte ipod nicht öffnen"
21:49:45	linuxstb	gevaerts: I would close 8936 as out of date - the reporter was asked to provide more info if it happened again, and he never did...
21:49:55		Join Tomis2 [0] (n=Tomis@70.134.100.80)
21:50:00	linuxstb	qwertz: With Rockbox Utility?
21:50:27	qwertz	linuxstb: hi, yes
21:50:41	linuxstb	Are you running it as root/Administrator?
21:50:50	qwertz	i do start with gksudo on karmic
21:51:27	qwertz	funny is that I can do other actions like installing themes
21:51:28	JdGordon\|	gevaerts: haha... sorry. I looked at the wrong task :) apparently im semi dyslexic
21:51:56	JdGordon\|	8963 != 8936
21:52:02	qwertz	linuxstb: But I will nit find the results when starting the Ipod
21:52:24	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: very true!
21:52:58	JdGordon\|	amiconn: do you know why audio_pause() blocks?
21:53:23	qwertz	linuxstb: I do have a quite old version (manually installled) of rb on ipod 5gn 60GB
21:53:57	gevaerts	bluebrother, domonoky: is FS #9177 still valid? That's quite old, and rbutil has moved a lot since then
21:55:16	qwertz	I have two partitions on the ipod and I am not very sure which is the real system partition for rb. Maybe I did some craps whe installtin a year ago
21:55:20	linuxstb	qwertz: Are you using the "autodetect" feature?
21:55:31	domonoky	gevaerts: i am not sure, as it is a sansapatcher issue, it could still be valid. But noone has a e200r to test.
21:55:42	bluebrother	gevaerts: I guess it is still valid
21:55:44	linuxstb	qwertz: If you are specifying the device for your ipod, you specify the "whole-disk" device - e.g. /dev/sdb
21:55:47	gevaerts	ok
21:56:18	linuxstb	domonoky: sansapatcher doesn't work on the e200r
21:56:34	qwertz	linuxstb: yes, atodetect finds the the small partition
21:56:39	bluebrother	qwertz: can you post the output of the About / System Trace dialog somewhere?
21:56:48	linuxstb	domonoky: Ah, I've read the task now...
21:56:49	domonoky	linuxstb: does it also reject the e200r and give a error ?
21:56:59	linuxstb	domonoky: No idea, I don't have an e200r ;)
21:57:12	linuxstb	(and it was originally written before they existed)
21:57:14	domonoky	linuxstb: thats the problem :-)
21:57:36	bluebrother	Rockbox Utility wants the mount point, not the device node. It resolves the mountpoint to the device node internally
21:57:54	qwertz	linuxstb: the auto found path is /media/rockbox_root
21:59:07	qwertz	hi bluesbrother; Yes, if you tell me how to get the => About / System Trace dialog
21:59:10		Quit Tomis (Connection reset by peer)
21:59:10		Nick Tomis2 is now known as Tomis (n=Tomis@70.134.100.80)
21:59:41	JdGordon\|	doesnt sansapatcher work with the e200r once you manually do the first step to unlock it?
21:59:59	linuxstb	JdGordon\|: No.
22:00
22:00:01	amiconn	JdGordon\|: Afaics it doesn't block
22:00:07	domonoky	qwertz: look in the in the about menu at the top of rbutil :-)
22:00:19	linuxstb	JdGordon\|: The firmware partition is hidden via USB (IIRC)
22:00:29	amiconn	It just sends an event (using queue_send() on swcodec, queue_post() on hwcodec)
22:00:49	JdGordon\|	queue_send() blocks
22:00:50	linuxstb	domonoky: Looking at sansapatcher.c, the is_sansa() function checks the partition layout, and then the contents of the firmware partition, so I can't see how it can detect an e200r. Maybe rbutil isn't using that function?
22:01:08	JdGordon\|	I'm wondering if that can be changed to queue_post which doesnt block
22:01:25	amiconn	I have no idea
22:01:52	JdGordon\|	:( I dont think any active devs do
22:02:29	bluebrother	linuxstb: is_sansa() is called in bootloaderinstallsansa.cpp, so if the partition layout is different on the e200r it should fail
22:03:24	JdGordon\|	jhMikeS was the last to fiddle with that, havnt seen him in ages
22:03:34	linuxstb	bluebrother: But then what happens? The complaint seems to be that there is no error message.
22:04:11		Join arohtar [0] (n=faemir@78.33.109.163)
22:04:21	amiconn	r13361: SWCODEC Playback: Seriously mess with it and get rid of (at least some ;) race conditions.
22:04:25	amiconn	By jhMikeS
22:04:44	qwertz	domonkey, linuxsstb, bluebrother: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/428254/qwetrtz_rockbox_log.txt
22:04:52	bluebrother	well, according from the code it should return an error
22:05:24	bluebrother	do we know the partition layout of the e200r? Faking it might help to test the issue
22:05:50		Quit Tomis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:06:33	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:07:36	linuxstb	bluebrother: It just has a single FAT32 partition.
22:08:02		Quit dfkt_ ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
22:08:25	JdGordon\|	oh thats right, the partition it exports to usb isnt the full disk
22:08:36	bluebrother	hmm, then I don't see why rbutil should install the bootloader on the e200r
22:09:24	qwertz	domonkey, linuxsstb, bluebrother: The Dropbox link is the "About / System Trace dialog"
22:09:28	linuxstb	bluebrother: The bug report says that rbutil _says_ it does... But it's from July 2008 - was the code different back then?
22:09:30	JdGordon\|	anyone have an email addy for jhMikeS?
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22:12:23		Join Tomis [0] (n=Tomis@70.134.102.194)
22:12:30	bluebrother	linuxstb: that's quite possible. The bootloader installation was reworked in October 2008
22:12:56	linuxstb	bluebrother: I guess we can close it as out of date then...
22:13:09		Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6b4/20091124213835]")
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22:13:17	bluebrother	fair enough.
22:13:51	linuxstb	If sansapatcher itself didn't reject an e200r, I'm sure we would have heard by now...
22:13:53	qwertz	linuxstb bluebrother: Are you talking about my prob? Should I follow? Thanks!
22:14:03	linuxstb	qwertz: Sorry, no we're not ;)
22:14:47	bluebrother	qwertz: no, but from looking at the trace resolving the mountpoint didn't seem to work :/
22:15:28	qwertz	buebrother: hmmmm :'(
22:15:45	bluebrother	btw, you're running a localized system?
22:16:10	qwertz	bluebrotehr: German
22:16:39	linuxstb	qwertz: If you unplug your ipod, do you still have a /media/rockbox_root directory?
22:16:54	bluebrother	ah. I've spotted another issue I fixed a few days ago which hits on localized machines. But thats a minor issue
22:17:15		Join petur [0] (n=peter@d54C6F9B2.access.telenet.be)
22:17:41	stripwax	saratoga - here's the thing. alpha for one N and alpha for another N will not match. But they will both be present in a table of unshifted cos/sin for N*8.
22:17:59	qwertz	bluebrother;;: Nope, will be unmounted and dissapear from Nautilus
22:18:16	stripwax	(just reading your message from 20:44 - I also disappeared for a bit)
22:18:33	linuxstb	bluebrother: What do the "[BootloaderInstallIpod] ipodpatcher: overriding scan, using " lines mean, and why are they truncated?
22:18:41	linuxstb	(are they truncated?)
22:18:43	bluebrother	qwertz: if you plug the ipod and then type "mount" in a terminal window, does the mountpoint appear in the output?
22:19:26	bluebrother	linuxstb: that line isn't trunctated, that's the problem. It should print the device node at the end, but resolving the mountpoint didn't work, so that message contains an empty string.
22:19:38	bluebrother	there's definitely room for improvement here ...
22:19:52	bluebrother	i.e. handle that case with a proper error message
22:20:41	qwertz	bluebrother: No, does not appear in mount list
22:20:59		Nick The3_14ed\|r is now known as Dhraakellian (n=ntryon@cpe-67-253-173-122.rochester.res.rr.com)
22:21:27	bluebrother	well, that's interesting. How does Nautilus access the Ipod if it isn't mounted? If it is mounted it has to appear in the mount output
22:21:30	linuxstb	qwertz: But you can see your ipod in /media/rockbox_root/ ?
22:22:10	qwertz	bluebrother, linuxstb: sorry it does * lalala* /dev/sdb3 on /media/rockbox_root type ext3 (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=devkit)
22:22:25	gevaerts	type ext3?
22:22:31	linuxstb	type ext3?
22:22:42	gevaerts	also, /dev/sdb3?
22:22:48	bluebrother	qwertz: do you have ipod linux installed?
22:22:51	gevaerts	should be fat and /dev/sdb2
22:23:05	linuxstb	qwertz: Is /dev/sdb2 mounted anywhere?
22:24:45	saratoga	stripwax: yeah thats what I thought, but i searched for an entry in the 128 table and it wasn't in the 4096 table
22:24:49	qwertz	ahhh, got it: /dev/sdb2 on /media/476A-AB95 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=devkit,uid=1000,gid=1000,shortname=mixed,dmask=0077,utf8=1,flush)
22:25:48	linuxstb	qwertz: But we're assuming you have/had ipodlinux installed?
22:25:53	qwertz	I did an experiment wit ipodlinux abot 1 or two years ago
22:25:58	bluebrother	ok, then you need to use /media/476A-AB95 as mountpoint
22:26:43	bluebrother	did Rockbox Utility autodetect the mountpoint?
22:28:34	qwertz	oki doki, should I do complete install to erase all old stuff?
22:28:37	stripwax	saratoga - the alpha for 128 won't be in the alpha for 4096. But the alpha for 128 will be in the unshifted cos/sin table for 4096. And the alpha for 4096 will be in the unshifted cos/sin table for 32768
22:28:52	qwertz	bluebrother: Auto took the rockbox partition
22:29:07	linuxstb	bluebrother: How does rbutil find the mountpoint? The first one it finds for that device in /proc/mounts ?
22:29:17	stripwax	So here we have alpha for N=2048, which will be in the unshifted cos/sin table for 16384. But we only need to store 1/8th of it
22:29:27	bluebrother	qwertz: "rockbox partition" means /media/rockbox_root?
22:29:30	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: re FS #9640: I think we reached a consensus, but I can't remember what it was
22:29:36	stripwax	unless I've completely screwed up
22:29:47	JdGordon\|	gevaerts: which was 9640?
22:29:56	qwertz	bluebrother: Yes
22:29:58	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: the wps line ending vs comments thing
22:30:17	JdGordon\|	ah yes. I distincly remember the conversation happened...
22:30:29	qwertz	Bluebrother: A complete installation should not affect my music, I guess?
22:30:55	qwertz	bluebrother: If you say roger I will give it a try ...
22:30:59	bluebrother	qwertz: does /media/rockbox_root/.rockbox exist, especially rockbox-info.txt in that folder?
22:31:13	bluebrother	no, installation does not delete any data
22:31:25	stripwax	you should be able to check that in matlab; build cos(alpha), sin(alpha) for alpha in N=128, and build cos(2PII/N),sin(2PiI/N) for N=1024
22:32:03	JdGordon\|	rasher: pixelma: do either of you remember the outcome for the comment bug?
22:32:07	saratoga	stripwax: i don't understand
22:32:15	saratoga	"the alpha for 128 won't be in the alpha for 4096. But the alpha for 128 will be in the unshifted cos/sin table for 4096."
22:32:18	saratoga	what?
22:32:50	qwertz	bluebrother Yes: /media/rockbox_root/.rockbox exist, especially rockbox-info.txt does exist
22:33:00	stripwax	saratoga - when you said you searched for an entry in the table for 128, and it wasn't in the table for 4096. By "table" do you mean your tcos2=cos(alpha) tables , in both cases?
22:33:20	saratoga	stripwax: i computed all the alphas for 4096
22:33:29	saratoga	then i looked for the first alpha in the 128 table
22:33:35	stripwax	right so try computing regular cos(2PIi/N) for 4096 instead..
22:33:44	bluebrother	qwertz: and no .rockbox on the vfat partition? That would explain the wrong detection
22:34:16	saratoga	stripwax: if alpha doesn't match, then cos(alpha) won't match . . .
22:34:18	qwertz	bluebrother: So rockbox_root is maybe a legacy of experiments with ipodlinux. should I rease it
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22:34:49	stripwax	right, that's why you shouldn't compare alpha with alpha, or cos(alpha) with cos(alpha) - you must compare cos(alpha) to cos(2PIi/N)
22:35:05	stripwax	i.e. compare the thing with the 0.125 to the thing without the 0.125 but N a factor of 8 larger
22:35:30	stripwax	Because: for N=128 and i=0, alpha = 2PI(0 + 1/8) / 128 = 2PI/(1288)
22:35:46	saratoga	stripwax: ohhhh
22:35:57	stripwax	Which is the same as 2PI(1)/1024
22:36:01	linuxstb	qwertz: Yes, delete .rockbox from the rockbox_root partition
22:36:02	saratoga	if its really that simple i will feel really stupid
22:36:02	domonoky	bluebrother: its the silly autodetection code, it stops at the first rockbox-info.txt/rbutil.log it finds.. (which is probably the worng one)
22:36:18		Quit arohtar (Client Quit)
22:36:19	stripwax	Which will be in the regular (cos(2PIi/N) not cos(alpha)) table for N=1024
22:36:25	bluebrother	domonoky: yes, definitely :(
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22:36:47	qwertz	bluebrother: .rockbox and rockbox-info.txt exist on vfat partition, too. As well as a lot of database_x.tcd
22:36:56	stripwax	either that or I'm going crazy. I have been off sick actually so who knows :)
22:37:04	bluebrother	fortunately I'll be on a couple of longish train trips the next weeks ...
22:37:09	saratoga	stripwax: you're right it works
22:37:14	stripwax	woohoo! :-)
22:37:29	saratoga	so we can combine the mdct tables with the fft tables and be more accurate then we are now
22:37:33	bluebrother	reworking the autodetection is on my todo list since quite a while
22:37:34	stripwax	yep
22:37:42	stripwax	everyone's a winner :)
22:37:42	domonoky	bluebrother: my autodetection patch in flyspray would find the correct one (or at least present two options) .. :-) but unfortunatly that still needs more work.. and i didnt found the time for it.
22:38:09	stripwax	Rewiring the fft to use smaller tables and some kind of modulo addressing might be a bit messy though. but I'm sure we can nick ideas from tremor for that also...
22:38:46	bluebrother	domonoky: yeah, time is this problem that's always around :o
22:39:05	qwertz	OK - will erase the wrong partition ;o) Where is th original Ipod OS found. Do not want to delet it. But I guess it wont be on ext3 lol
22:39:27	bluebrother	qwertz: the ipod firmware is on the first partition, which is of type 0
22:39:41	domonoky	bluebrother: so if you use your train time to improve the patch/ write your own better autodetection, it would be great ! :-)
22:40:23	qwertz	bluebrother: can I see it or is it some kind of hidden flash memory, or so
22:40:53	saratoga	stripwax: error is less then -150dB with your scheme
22:40:54	bluebrother	qwertz: it's a regular partition. It doesn't have a filesystem, so you can't mount it.
22:40:56	linuxstb	qwertz: There's no filesystem there, but you can read/write it by accessing /dev/sdb1 directly... (probably not recommended though).
22:41:04	saratoga	we're probably limited by the x86 cos() accunracy
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22:41:44	gevaerts	Opinions on FS #9395 ?
22:42:57	qwertz	bluebrother: OK, I gonna erase the wholw "wrong partition" and rename the right wone to make a proper unit. Then try install. Thanks. CU Later
22:43:57	saratoga	stripwax: changing it in mdct.c should be easy, since we can just change revtab around
22:44:04	saratoga	i don't know about fft-ffmpeg.c
22:44:31	JdGordon\|	gevaerts: I'd close that with a message "reopen if its still happening".. but im sure someone will disagree with that :/
22:44:42	n1s	gevaerts: i'd say close with "fixed"
22:44:54	AlexP	I'd close it
22:45:25	gevaerts	Three people who would close it. Now who will get to it first? :)
22:45:40	n1s	wow, bug count has dropped nicely, good work people :)
22:46:14	AlexP	from what to what?
22:46:49	n1s	from300 a few days ago to 280 now
22:47:08	AlexP	I was expecting a bigger drop from what you said :)
22:47:17	n1s	well, open bug count
22:47:22	gevaerts	AlexP: we're still working on it!
22:47:36	AlexP	I'm not criticising!
22:47:46	n1s	AlexP: the trend has been a slight increase so any drop of more than 1 is nice :)
22:47:56	AlexP	very true :)
22:49:20	JdGordon\|	if we are more agressive with closing very old and abandond bugs we should easily get under 200 again
22:49:44	JdGordon\|	bugs which we think are fixed and havnt had any comments for months
22:50:04	linuxstb	gevaerts: Do you understand FS #10808 ?
22:50:08	gevaerts	one problem I'm having is that some bugs are a bit vague, list several related things, and might be mostly fixed
22:50:38	JdGordon\|	I'd say depending on what the unfixed things are either create new ones for them, or ignore them
22:51:10	gevaerts	linuxstb: I'd need to check, but this seems to indicate that windows 2000 doesn't handle composite devices properly
22:51:42	gevaerts	in other words, reassign to microsoft :)
22:52:03	n1s	gevaerts: windows 2000 has been out-of-support from MS for quite a while, hasn't it?
22:52:29	gevaerts	n1s: probably, but we should still be able to confirm that this is the issue
22:53:35	n1s	maybe some way to disable the hid functionality and do just msc would be good for such cases
22:53:50	gevaerts	that's there in svn
22:54:08	CIA-6	New commit by bluebrother (r24056): Remove scanning for Ipod from Ipod bootloader installation and clean it up a bit. The Ipod is specified by its mountpoint, so there is no need to scan ...
22:55:07	*	AlexP closes one!
22:55:45	n1s	gevaerts: as a setting? or some hidden magic button combo thing?
22:55:55	gevaerts	n1s: a setting
22:56:03	n1s	gevaerts: cool
22:57:08	gevaerts	hm, when did we enable USB in the svn builds on ipods?
22:57:17	JdGordon\|	AlexP: we should do a prize for the person that closes the most :)
22:57:24	linuxstb	gevaerts: About a year ago?
22:57:24	JdGordon\|	that should add some incentive
22:57:32	AlexP	JdGordon\|: :)
22:57:36	JdGordon\|	for 3.1 wasnt it?
22:58:40	linuxstb	gevaerts: You enabled it in Feb 2009 - r20105
22:59:13	gevaerts	Thanks
22:59:34	gevaerts	That means it was after FS #9793, which means I'll close that one
23:00
23:00:13		Quit bmbl ("Bye!")
23:02:05	JdGordon\|	while people are awake... look at the dev mail thread about the postponing.... what starte are we trying to get to? and where are we in relation to that?
23:03:48	gevaerts	uhm, FS #9810?
23:03:56	gevaerts	Don't we just measure the voltage?
23:05:53	JdGordon\|	the percent comes from the voltage based on target iirc
23:05:56	*	bluebrother wonders how r23943 should work −− #define QUIT 0 but later if(pressed & QUIT) ?
23:06:09	gevaerts	so if this is a bug, it's a hardware bug
23:06:11	n1s	gevaerts: yeah, and we convert voltage to percent
23:06:18	*	gevaerts closes
23:06:39	n1s	or a adc driver bug, conversion bug but that seems unlikely
23:07:00	bertrik	the last 10 percent is on a quite steep part of the voltage vs time curve
23:07:00	n1s	yeah, close
23:07:14	bertrik	(probably)
23:07:16	n1s	accuracy tends to be bad at low voltages
23:11:52	gevaerts	How about FS #9868 ?
23:12:50		Quit faemir (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:13:28	AlexP	yeah, 2 down!
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23:13:34	*	AlexP is getting into this
23:14:45	AlexP	gevaerts: I'd close that - it is likely an accent issue, and your own voice files can be generated
23:14:55	gevaerts	Any chance of FS #9952 still being present today?
23:15:01	AlexP	It isn't wrong per se
23:15:05	bertrik	I do think it's a bit odd that the percentage lingers at 9% so long, but nearly impossible to investigate further because the exact DAP model is not mentioned
23:15:34	bertrik	oh, sansa e200
23:17:04	JdGordon\|	it could very well be the calibration on that target is screwed up
23:17:07	JdGordon\|	or was at the time
23:17:21	*	JdGordon\| doesnt like these nano2g bugs in the tracker yet
23:17:32	JdGordon\|	unless they get closed they will stay forever with this same problem
23:17:54	*	gevaerts agrees. Maybe we should downgrade nano2g to "unusable" again...
23:18:39	JdGordon\|	or we be more agressive closing bugs as they become out dated :p
23:19:16	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: can you quickly look at FS #9868?
23:19:29	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: oops no, FS #9952
23:19:30	Hillshum	Are they all of one particular thing?
23:20:39	JdGordon\|	gevaerts: i had to do a double take on the date there.... that cant still be open!
23:20:53	JdGordon\|	it didnt even click that 20102 was months ago :p
23:21:09	bertrik	it indeed looks like the 9% percentage is caused by a different battery curve, the calculation of battery percentage is correct
23:22:24	bertrik	at around 3.68V, our calibration curve expects the battery voltage to drop a lot faster than was the case with the battery from the FS bug
23:23:08		Nick YPSY is now known as Ypsy (n=ypsy@geekpadawan.de)
23:23:11	linuxstb	JdGordon\|: What do you mean by "unless they get closed they will stay forever with this same problem" ?
23:24:06	JdGordon\|	I mean the actual bug could be fixed, but because the reporter disappeared, or forgot the bug just stays there, and then months later we wonder if its indeed fixed or not
23:24:21	JdGordon\|	9420? it seems like hardware problem?
23:25:14	JdGordon\|	unless we actually reset the radio frequency every couple of minutes?
23:25:48	linuxstb	JdGordon\|: For example?
23:26:35	JdGordon\|	this battery curve bug
23:26:53	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: one comment says that the OF doesn't do this
23:27:21	JdGordon\|	the last comment says it does showup in the OF
23:27:37	gevaerts	yes. A bit confusing...
23:28:37	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: see also FS #10405
23:28:53	JdGordon\|	yeah, saw it
23:28:56	*	linuxstb wonders what JdGordon\| is talking about - he is talking about the Nano2G bugs...
23:29:38	gevaerts	linuxstb: people going through bug lists tend to have confused minds :)
23:31:01	AlexP	What about things like 5072 - isn't that just not implemented rather than a bug?
23:31:15	JdGordon\|	linuxstb: i dont have a specifc bug in mind.. and maybe im getting the wrong impression..
23:31:45	gevaerts	AlexP: even JdGordon\| said that it's a bug!
23:31:54	AlexP	Mmmm, but is it?
23:32:01	rasher	JdGordon\|: I think there was a camp of "Well you have strange tags" and then little old me saying "Please try harder, the info is all there"
23:32:09	linuxstb	JdGordon\|: The main problem (IIUC) on the Nano2G seems to be the NAND driver, but only on some devices. On most, it seems to work fine.
23:32:15	AlexP	gevaerts: I mean, it is functionality we'd like, but it isn't intended to work currently
23:32:27	*	linuxstb wishes you could search by player type on flyspray...
23:32:42	gevaerts	AlexP: does the manual state this properly?
23:32:50	AlexP	I don't know
23:32:57	AlexP	but I doubt it :)
23:33:06	JdGordon\|	rasher: :(
23:33:14	JdGordon\|	the usual lack of agreement then?
23:33:26	bertrik	linuxstb, yeah I miss that too
23:33:47	JdGordon\|	5072 shuold probably be closed, or changed to a feature request
23:34:12		Quit n1s ("L�mnar")
23:34:17	bertrik	and then closed because we don't do feature requests :\| ?
23:34:26	JdGordon\|	:D
23:34:28	AlexP	indeed
23:34:29	gevaerts	or rephrased into a manual bug
23:34:39	AlexP	I'm just going to put a note in the manual, then close it
23:35:11	*	JdGordon\| wishes someone would work on the database so it can be more like the file browser from the codes POV
23:36:39	JdGordon\|	then bookmark, playlist resume, follow playlist would all just magically work
23:37:50	pamaury	But isn't a database completely different from a file hierarchy ?
23:38:32	JdGordon\|	yes and no
23:38:38	gevaerts	yes. I'm not convinced that this would work well
23:38:47	AlexP	So to make sure - bookmarking doesn't work at all when the file is launched through the database?
23:39:10	JdGordon\|	. /all/genres/metal/bandname would be the "file location"
23:39:25	JdGordon\|	which would always generate the same database query
23:39:33	JdGordon\|	AlexP: iirc, yes
23:39:59	JdGordon\|	just like /music/albuum/ always gets the same filesystem loookup
23:40:09	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: a major point of the database is that you're not limited to that...
23:40:27	AlexP	So does "Bookmarking only works when files are launched from the file browser, and does not currently work for files launched via the database." suit people?
23:40:28	JdGordon\|	of course... you use the database browser to get that path
23:40:30		Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:40:52	linuxstb	JdGordon\|: What about playlists generated on playcount?
23:41:01	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: you can change the path halfway and then add more tracks to the playlist
23:41:09	JdGordon\|	the query would be the same.. the value would be different
23:41:33	JdGordon\|	well, yeah, its not a perfect solution
23:42:00	gevaerts	How about FS #10103? Just close?
23:42:39	linuxstb	But I agree the database needs work. IIUC,when you create a playlist, every filename is added individually to the .playlist_control file, which is what Rockbox's playlist code was designed to avoid.
23:43:12	JdGordon\|	yes
23:43:38	linuxstb	Someone should have paid attention at the time and shouted at Slasheri...
23:43:45	stripwax	saratoga - sorry, back now
23:43:55	stripwax	so, mdct.c doesn't use revtab..
23:44:15	stripwax	oh, fft.revtab
23:44:35	JdGordon\|	even a resumed file browser playlist stuffs up if you modify the file contents
23:44:46	JdGordon\|	s/file/folder/
23:45:12	JdGordon\|	which is why I wouldnt have a problem with a playlist generated from the DB having a "path" like the filebrowser has
23:45:46	gevaerts	or a set of such paths
23:45:55	stripwax	oh - excellent - so only the unrolling at the end of ff_imdct_calc makes the assumption that input & output buffers are physically distinct. (the thing that prevents ffmpeg imdct operating in place). that should be easy to fix
23:46:09	gevaerts	but yes, that would solve some issues
23:46:15	Hillshum	possibly using a UUID or something for the path
23:46:16	Hillshum	?
23:46:40	gevaerts	why?
23:47:46	stripwax	saratoga - I'm going to merge the r17783 you spotted into my patch; and commit to branch svn. shout if you have any questions/reservations ...
23:48:15	Hillshum	gevaerts: Might make figuring out what the paths should be easier? I don't know much about this
23:48:31	JdGordon\|	sounds like over-engineering...
23:48:41	JdGordon\|	speaking of which.. has anyone thought about using sqllite for the db :)
23:48:51	CIA-6	New commit by alex (r24057): Add note to Bookmarking sections that bookmarking only works from the file browser and not the database.
23:48:52	gevaerts	Hillshum: I'd expect such a path to be "genre=xxx/artist=yyy"
23:48:53	gevaerts	JdGordon\|: yes
23:49:12		Join captain_kewl [0] (i=2669ecc2@gateway/web/freenode/x-zkegqyabsvmptqza)
23:49:14	JdGordon\|	did it get anywhere?
23:49:46		Join GeekShadow [0] (n=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow)
23:49:46	gevaerts	it's not feasible. You need half a megabyte of RAM basically, where the current code uses 100kb or less
23:50:07	JdGordon\|	ok
23:50:07	gevaerts	but there's a patch that allows you to use it frokm plugins :)
23:50:25	gevaerts	also, this is version 2 IIRC. 3 is even bigger
23:53:33	AlexP	Down to 260!
23:53:38	JdGordon\|	9693?
23:53:46	*	JdGordon\| prods AlexP for that one
23:54:18	AlexP	righto
23:55:06	qwertz	bluebrother linuxstb: WOW EEK everything works fine now. Rockbox 3.4 looks much mor better than the stone age version i ran before!!
23:55:50	Hillshum	qwertz: What version was that
23:55:52	Hillshum	?
23:56:04	JdGordon\|	the dos 1 I bet :D
23:56:15	bertrik	probably some version before the cabbiev2 default theme
23:56:25	qwertz	bluebrother linuxstb: BIG BIG thank you and thank you to the coders .. I think I should invest a few hours to contribtute
23:58:21	qwertz	Hillsum: I think it was 1.5-2 years old. C`ant tell version number

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