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#rockbox log for 2009-12-27

00:02:29 Join einhirn_ [0] (
00:09:22 Quit einhirn (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:11:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:32:36 Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:33:17 Join matsl_ [0] (
00:35:04 Join Architek9 [0] (
00:35:54Architek9I installed rockbox onto my sansa fuze with the manual install but I can't get rockbox to boot it only boots to the original firmware what am I doing wrong?
00:36:51Torneis it a fuze v1? and did you isntall the bootloader properly?
00:37:24Architek9im not sure what version it is and the bootloader was installed
00:38:31Torneif the bootloader was installed successfully then you would get *something*
00:38:43Torneyoucan check what version i is by looking at the OF firmware version
00:39:17Architek9version VO2
00:40:07 Join Llorean [0] (
00:40:19Tornethat's a fuze v2 then
00:40:22Tornewhich is not supported
00:40:31Torneonly v1 of the clip and fuze are supported at the moment
00:41:00Architek9is there any way I could make it work?
00:41:25Torneno, the hardware is different
00:41:43Tornethe fuze v2 may be supported one day (it's similar to the clipv2 which someone is working on) but it may be a long time yet
00:41:47Torneimpossible to say
00:44:06Torne..saratoga has dev hardware for clipv2?
00:44:15Tornedoes that mean we know what SoC it is now?
00:44:22Tornedrat he's not here
00:46:22 Quit bmbl ("Bye!")
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01:01:58beta2kDo the Sansa e200's fail something specific generally? Or are they normally dead when they won't startup?
01:02:15beta2kLooking at one on eBay since there's no Gigabeats for a decent price
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01:19:54 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
01:20:10kugelahh, that was an awesome DevConPub
01:20:49*pixelma agrees
01:24:48kugelI also look forward to this new dimension of the tower of rockbox :>
01:27:18pixelmabeta2k: thanks for offering help. Hard and soft knee was explained quite well on wikipedia, the only thing I have to understand still now is what exactly "makeup gain" is in this context but not now anymore. And of course it's a software compressor as it is Rockbox ;)
01:28:24pixelma"not now anymore" as in "at this time of day"
01:30:02kugelbeta2k: our compressor is entirely software based afaik
01:32:53beta2kpixelma: Makeup gain is easy :)
01:33:12kugelspeaking of it, I wonder how far Blue_Dude has come with his rework
01:33:18beta2kWhen you compress a signal you reduce the amplitude of the signal correct?
01:34:01kugelI'm afraid we stopped him from even starting working on it before he did anything :\
01:34:08beta2kMakeup gain is a amplifier on the output of the compressor to bring the signal back up similar with the input signal
01:34:56beta2kSo if you're compressing, say in the audio world on a vocalist, 3dB average, then you set the makeup gain to bring the output up that 3dB
01:36:06beta2kAnyone running RB on a H10?
01:37:18beta2kIs their USB support in RB or just the OF?
01:39:07pixelmabeta2k: I think I understand now (slowly) but need to find a way to put it nicely in the German translation (searching some audio related pages in German should help if there is a German term for this), thanks
01:44:57 Quit matsl_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:47:27pixelmabeta2k: oh, and the H10 should have Rockbox software USB too for a while now, if I'm not mistaken
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02:03:11 Quit kaniini (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:03:15*DerPapst is finally back from DCP Berlin. :)
02:07:32DerPapstit took little longer to get back home because someone decided to kill himself using a train :-/
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03:07:12_mGiffhey, sorry. Trying to get rockbox set up on my girlfriend's new e280 and we're running into some annoying permissions issues.
03:08:11_mGiffTried the latest rockbox on both windows & the mac & we can't do the quick installation
03:09:07_mGiffI've upgraded the firmware for the device
03:09:32_mGiffSet USB to MSC mode.
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03:23:16_mGiffnot sure. let me check.
03:23:17DerPapst (for irc logs again :-P)
03:23:17_mGiffthis page here -
03:23:17_mGiffHow unstable is v2?
03:23:17LloreanWhat error do you encounter on the windows version of RButil, and what version of RButil are you using?
03:23:17LloreanThe state of it is constantly changing, information is available in the wiki and via the SVN logs.
03:23:18_mGiffOn the windows version we get another permissions problem.. It's installing windows updates at the moment..
03:23:18LloreanMost people have found it usable, though there have been issues at times. Never permanently harming the player, but for example there was a period where versions of it would corrupt the disk and require reformatting
03:23:18LloreanWhat version of Windows? If it's Vista or newer, are you running RBUtil in admin mode?
03:23:19_mGiffOk.. we can try that.. both rbutils versions were dowloaded earlier this week.
03:23:19LloreanPlease, don't answer "what version" questions with when you downloaded it ever. Always just look up the number.
03:23:19LloreanIt'll save time over all.
03:23:19_mGiffrbutils on vista. no idea about admin mode unless it's just general user permissions.
03:23:20LloreanNo, right click and choose "Run as administrator"
03:23:20LloreanFor some bootloader installations admin permissions are necessary
03:23:21_mGiffversion number for rockbox on mac 1.2.3 svn 22749
03:23:41LloreanI believe that should work if you run with proper privileges.
03:25:58_mGiffok. Should I be able to do the complete installation from the quick start or do I need to go another route?
03:26:24LloreanYes, that should work.
03:26:25_mGiffOn the unstable Sandisk sansa e200v2 series otpion I can't use the quickstart any more (greyed out).
03:26:29 Quit GeekShadow (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:26:56LloreanCan you choose "install the bootloader" on the installation tab?
03:27:12 Quit Tomis ()
03:27:54_mGiffgotta get the bin from sandisk now.
03:27:57LloreanYou need that and "install rockbox"
03:28:12LloreanThey both should be done before you unplug the device
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03:33:34_mGiffLooking hopeful. got the bootloader up.
03:35:46_mGiffseems to be installed. Thanks Llorean & Unhelpful! Now we have to see how well it's working....
03:36:21_mGiffgrabbing the e200pa.bin was a bit counter intuitive. too bad sandisk doesn't provide that.
03:39:27 Join fenugrec [0] (
03:50:54_mGiffthanks for all your help. It is working. Not sure it's girlfriend friendly though.
03:51:12_mGiffHope to check back in a bit though and see how the interface has evolved.
03:51:41Unhelpful_mGiff: my wife manages fine with her e200v1...
03:52:44 Quit DerPapst ("Leaving.")
03:54:26_mGiffI'll try it again in a bit (I hope). The native firmware seems to be a bit more user friendly at the moment.
03:55:46_mGiffwant any initial user feedback. Not sure if this is the right time/place for this, but I can provide some basic feedback of the experience.
03:58:54 Join tabormeister [0] (i=cefb0efb@gateway/web/freenode/x-hmqbfaijkpknxyld)
03:59:31tabormeisterhey there!
03:59:46tabormeisterI have a question about a gigabeat S, if anyone could help?
04:00:13 Join KBH [0] (
04:00:14Llorean_mGiff: We generally know that users initially find it intimidating - it's alternative firmware specifically designed to add a _lot_ of new functionality, it's not really intended for the non-technical.
04:00:24JdGordonLlorean: yes, you can probably go back in the irc and commit logs and find the discussion....
04:00:32JdGordonI had to add bandaid code back on for that to work
04:00:33Lloreantabormeister: Nobody knows if they can help until you've asked the question, so it's generally best just to ask.
04:00:49LloreanJdGordon: Could you tell me why, since you were actually there?
04:01:16JdGordonIIRC the good old "this is the way it worked before.. put it back"
04:01:26LloreanThat doesn't mean the way it worked before was intentional.
04:01:58LloreanI say it's a bug unless it's documented in the manual that those menus don't work like other menus.
04:02:00tabormeisterright, sorry. I've been using rockbox for a couple years, nanos, ipod videos, 4th gens- my problem with the gigabeat is the original firmware is gone from the disk, and there's a little documentation of what's on it in the manual, and I tried flashing it back with the toshiba utility provided, to no avail.
04:02:12JdGordonI'm not having this discussion now... but yes I agree it makes no sense
04:02:13LloreanJdGordon: Would the code be simpler if the bandaid were removed and they worked like normal menus?
04:02:22_mGiffok. well, thanks again. Hopefully there's a plateau where usability gets brought in. My girlfriend says "she's not non-technical" which is true.
04:02:23LloreanFix it and blame me. ;)
04:02:50Llorean_mGiff: It's pretty usabil.
04:02:57tabormeisterI have the toshiba drive mounted in a 6th-gen ipod right now to see what's on it, and it's corrupted, so....before, there was a 150 meg partition called TFLASH I believe, or TFLSH or something, that was hidden, that had the firmware on it.
04:03:12tabormeisterif I put the nk.bin toshiba firmware in a new 150 meg partition, would that work?
04:03:15tabormeister*pant* done.
04:04:58tabormeisterand that is?
04:05:02tabormeisteroh, llorean. my bad.
04:05:21Unhelpfultabormeister: try using restore mode? if the filesystems are unmountable or the partition table is corrupt, it should be starting in restore mode for you. anyway, you can send it an nk.bin using sendfirm while it's in restore mode, and the device boot ROM will take care of installing it, and reformatting the disk if need be.
04:06:06LloreanJdGordon: What we're talking about has nothing to do with the stop button.
04:06:13LloreanSo that commit message doesn't describe the issue at all.
04:06:23LloreanIt's simply about left and right browsing into and out of menus.
04:06:41Unhelpfuln1s: in the course of working on the LUT-free log2_int i found something interesting: my e200 gets a speed boost from using __builtin_clz instead of bs_generic(x,BS_CLZ), even though the only thing to recommend the libgcc function over ours is table size (ours inlines and has the table in iram).
04:10:34 Quit HBK (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
04:10:36 Nick KBH is now known as HBK (
04:10:36Unhelpfulmy *theory* as to what's going on here is that the load of the table address, which gcc puts after the function, is stalling. the libgcc version might win here because the table is smaller and immediately follows the function code (the address is computed by adding a constant to PC). so, there's no ldr for the table address, and there's the possibility for part of the table to have already been pulled into cache as instructions for the fun
04:10:36Unhelpful were being loaded.
04:10:48Unhelpfultabormeister: you could also use the toshiba update utility with restore mode.
04:10:53Unhelpful(i think)
04:11:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:11:47tabormeisterhmm, I shall try these things. do you know if I could simply create a partition with the tosh drive mounted in an ipod and put nk.bin in it, then pop it back in the tosh?
04:12:45Unhelpfultabormeister: it's fussy about its partition tables. it would be *easiest* to let the boot rom do this, it knows what it expects in the partition table :)
04:13:16tabormeistercool. will let you know what happens :) this has been sort of an off-and-on project for a couple years.
04:13:18JdGordonLlorean: hmm... maybe i ilinked the wrong one
04:13:40*Unhelpful loves his rockbox beast
04:16:34JdGordonLlorean: sounds like the commit.. you'd need to search the logs around that time for the discussion which i dont remember
04:16:41 Quit _mGiff ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201203240]")
04:17:30LloreanJdGordon: That doesn't look like it either, not on its own
04:17:54LloreanThat looks to only affect the behaviour of something in the radio?
04:19:11JdGordonthat seems to be the most likely one... either way, the logs around that time will have it
04:20:16LloreanHave you looked at what that changes?
04:21:32JdGordonno, only looked at the log message
04:21:38LloreanLook at what it changes.
04:21:41*JdGordon is getting ready to head to the airport
04:21:41LloreanIt's only a couple lines of code.
04:22:02LloreanUnless I'm missing something significant it's definitely not what we're talking about
04:22:09LloreanSo searching through the logs relating to it won't do me much good.
04:25:40*Llorean will leave a message on the -ML, maybe someone will know what the intent behind it acting this way is.
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04:39:51JdGordon cool!
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06:34:47q0_0panyone know why my ipod video 60 gig wont turn on?
06:34:52q0_0prockbox was working
06:35:02q0_0pbut after i shutdown rockbox no screen
06:35:10q0_0pplug in with usb cannot detect hdd
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08:09:21ReilithionHiyo. I am actually poking around for people involved with the Lyre project.
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09:06:31n1samiconn: could a pc relative load be used in the coldfire ffs too, and would it be beneficial?
09:30:56amiconnIt would only be possible if the table where near the code segment, but it isn't since on cf the table resides in IRAM and the code does not
09:32:42amiconnThen it would save one cycle the same way as it does on arm
09:32:50n1sthe code is 30bytes so we could put that in iram too
09:37:07n1sit ends up in text even if i specify section .icode
09:38:33n1seh, no it doesn't, it seems to work
09:38:38*n1s tests
09:39:39amiconnYou then need to put the table before or after the code block (basically within reach of %pc with a signed 8-bit offset)
09:43:25n1sany good ideas for testing this for correctness or benchmarking?
09:44:42amiconnJust call it with (1 << x) for x values of 0..32 (yes, 32), and you should get x back
09:45:14amiconnI used a little test loop (with button actions) in the debug menu for this
09:45:27amiconnUnfortunately I already reverted that
09:47:42amiconnThis change is probably insignificant for rockbox performance; it just saves a bit of space
09:48:03amiconnIirc this function is only used in thread switching
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10:04:29n1sseems to be workign correctly, it seems it will not save a cycle, just an instruction since using the more complicated indexing on the move.b takes an extra cycle
10:04:48n1sanyway, should i go ahead?
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10:12:07n1samiconn: on another matter, do you know if we can get gcc to pass arguments in registers for coldfire? it seems every fuction loads it's args from the stack...
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10:14:10amiconnThe standard m68k/ coldfire abi always uses stackargs
10:14:55amiconnAfaik there are only unofficial patches to change this for recent-ish gcc versions
10:15:32amiconnThe Amiga, being m68k based, is the only such architecture I know which uses regparms
10:16:15amiconnThere is a gcc for Amiga, but iirc it's gcc 2.95. Go figure...
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14:10:51kugeln1s: the patch is here if you didn't find it already:
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14:25:06n1skugel: thanks, i didn't find it, my googlefu
14:25:16n1sis not theat great it seems :)
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14:26:29n1sunfortunately, it's 5 years old and got only one single comment :(
14:27:50n1s*if* it works with gcc3.4 it would be interestign to test but we would need to port any asm functions, so we'd get locked in
14:28:58n1sassuming it needs a lot of work to get it working with later gcc releases, but i don't know gcc well enough to even know where to start
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14:34:10n1sand even if it does work and gives a speedup, do we want to use a patched gcc?
14:38:37*amiconn would expect a noticeable speedup
14:39:01n1syeah, me too
14:39:13amiconnIirc the Amiga (and hence the gcc patch) use d0/d1/a0/a1 for argument passing.
14:39:37amiconnThese registers are defined scratch anyway, so there's no additional register saving necessary
14:40:00n1syes, that makes sense
14:47:46evilnickWas there a discussion about using anticlockwise rather than counterclockwise in the manual?
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14:48:47Spaceuntill yesterday I thought that rockbox and ipodlinux is the same
14:48:55n1sevilnick: dunno, i remember that there was a discussion when we switched from forward/backward to clockwise but dont' remember an anti vs counter
14:49:13pixelmaevilnick: I remember there was a discussion about forward/back/clockwise etc. but I'm not sure ...what n1s said
14:49:29evilnickn1s: I'm asking because by default, we use UK English and counterclockwise is US English
14:49:44n1sevilnick: i'd say change it then :)
14:49:57evilnickMusic to my ears!
14:50:00SpaceI have 2 ipods, one of 4G (black and white) and a ipod classic of 6G
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14:50:31SpaceI have problems with disc in the 4G, yesterday I test using without hdd
14:50:44SpaceI could play song charged at RAM
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14:53:10SpaceI know that the firmware of 6G are encrypted, but may be in the future can I use rockbox on it?
14:54:42n1sSpace: maybe
14:54:53evilnickSpace: Anything is possible, but there's no timeframe for that and no new news, as far as I'm aware
14:55:47SpaceI am fine with my 4G ipod yet, but I have the problem with the disk
14:56:13SpaceI can't put the 160gb hdd of my ipod classic on it, true? have a different conector?
14:56:42Spacemay be can I buy one of hdd's in eBay? someone know his cost?
15:14:16Spacewhere can I know with which anothers players is compatible Rockbox?
15:14:16evilnickSpace: Looks like different connectors, see:
15:14:17SpaceI think that ipod classic 6G have a ZIF 40
15:14:18evilnickYes, and the 4G use a 50 pin connector, so unless there's enough room in the body of the 4G for the adaptor then you're out of luck
15:14:26Spacedo a adaptor to a SD read, is imposible?
15:14:26Spacemaybe only with CompacFlash memories?
15:14:28evilnickCompactFlash should work, I've heard of people using CF cards before, but I really don't know about fitting an SD(HC) card reader?!
15:14:30Spaceusing CF cards before on a iPod???
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15:14:31Spacewhat portable music player you will recomended to buy for use rockbox?
15:14:32SpaceiPods are the better on micro and RAM?
15:14:33evilnickAlthough, that is the iPod Video
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15:14:41evilnickIt all depends on your needs; if you are going to be recording, or interested in optical out then the H1x0 series are the best, for pure music playback I'd recommend the Toshiba Gigabeat F-series; the only advantage that the iPod has is the number of accessories available for it!
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15:14:43Spacewhat a pitty that the only players that have WiFI (I think in Zune an iTouch) we can't use another firmware
15:14:43amiconnIf you want flash storage in a device originally designed for 1.8" hdd, you can swap it for an 1.8" ssd
15:14:43Spacethanks a lot evilnick, for all help
15:14:43evilnickIf you want a small player then the Sansa E200s are great, if they're at a good price.
15:14:43Spacesorry for my english, I know that is very bad
15:14:43evilnickamiconn: Is that true for all targets that use the 1.8" hdd? Provided you have the correct adaptor?
15:14:43DBUGEnqueued KICK Space
15:14:43Spaceamiconn, but exist a 1.8'' ssd with 50 pins connection?
15:14:43amiconnThose should be more compatible in general, and there are both 50-pin versions (ipod 1st...4th generation, irivers, gigabeat f) and ZIF versions (ipod video, gigabeat S)
15:14:44amiconnSpace: Definitely. I bought two...
15:14:50amiconnNo adapter necessary
15:14:52Spaceso, if I will buy that hdd
15:14:52Spacecan I use on my 4G ipod, and then in my 6G ipod?
15:14:55Spaceyou said that is compatible wi 50-pin and ZIF versions? how that is possible?
15:15:10DerPapstno, he said there are 2 ssd version
15:15:17CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
15:15:17*evilnick guesses that there are 2 versions
15:15:26DerPapstone for 50 pin and one for zif
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15:18:20amiconnYes, and the 6G uses a yet different interface (and is off topic here anyway, unless you want to discuss a rockbox port for it)
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16:55:50n1sin fact the files touched by that patch don't seem to have changed a lot since 2004 so maybe the patch only needs a little manual work to apply... no idea if it will work though
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17:13:32iPodnano2g2gbIs there a partition table for iPod nano 2g
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17:38:41Unhelpfulhrm, if my theory is correct, then changing the alignment of the function, and therefore the table, with respect to the cache alignment ought to impact speed
17:38:53bertrikdid anyone notice anything weird with their sansa clip WPS?
17:39:33bertrikI think it uses the default cabbiev2 WPS again, instead of the clip specific cabbie v2 WPS
17:39:54bertrikprobably caused by some of the recent target renames
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17:47:43bertrikThe mrobe500 may also have the same problem because it also uses a model-specific cabbie v2 WPS
17:48:22bertrik(checking right now)
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17:57:50CIA-6New commit by bertrik (r24118): Rename wps/cabbiev2.128x64x1.clip.wps to wps/cabbiev2.128x64x1.sansaclip.wps to match recent target renames.
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18:13:31idanhey there
18:13:50idanmy sansa e280 v2 fucked after i install rockbox
18:14:01idani'm gonna send it to fix
18:14:06idanshould i install it again?
18:14:13idani mean it's work something like a day
18:14:18idanthen it's stop working
18:14:23idanand i have it a year
18:15:01FlynDiceidan: can you be more specific than it stopped working?
18:15:23idani click on the power button something like 10 sec but it's not start up
18:15:31idanwhen i plug the usb it's work
18:15:37idanafter i plug it off it's shut off
18:16:34idanit is rockbox problem?
18:16:43FlynDicewhat does the screen say when you plug it in to usb?
18:17:13idanit's start the normal sansa usb cause rockbox not work with e280 usb
18:17:16idanand it's work
18:17:28idanbut it's seem like the battery is empty
18:17:42idaneven after i charge it
18:19:18idani need to know if the rockbox fucked it up or it's battery problem
18:19:24FlynDicecan you see the files on it from a file manager?
18:19:38idani even try to format it
18:19:39FlynDicewin or linux?
18:19:44idanwin and linux
18:19:51idani even format it and nothing
18:20:04FlynDicedis you try fsck or chkdsk?
18:20:11idanno i format it in windows
18:20:14idani hate fsck
18:20:44FlynDicewhat happened when you formatted
18:20:49idansame problem
18:20:53idanit's not working
18:21:17FlynDiceafter formatting can you transfer a file?
18:21:23idani did'nt try it
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18:22:06idani use alot at the rockboy
18:22:19idanthat could be the problem?
18:22:29FlynDiceI would try copying the unpatched OF firmware update file to the player root dir and see if you can get that to work.
18:23:13idanit's not working, after i plug out the usb it's shut off without warning
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18:25:02bertrikthis could be a battery problem
18:25:29idanthe battery fine until i install rockbox
18:25:30bertrikA sansa e200v2 without a battery connected would show the same symptoms I think
18:25:42FlynDicethat's was my thought too... don't suppose you have another batt you could try?
18:25:55idani don't have
18:26:30idani know it's battery problem but i need to know that if i install it again after i get new battery it's don't fuck my battery again
18:26:30bertrikyou could try reseating the battery, i.e. remove the battery and place it back again
18:27:40idani don't think so it's work fine something like year
18:27:53idanthen i installed rockbox and after day it's dead
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18:33:39bertrikI have never heard of other e200v2's that acted like this with rockbox installed
18:34:19FlynDiceidan: I've been running rockbox on my e280v2 for more than a year now without any battery problems. I can't tell you for sure it's not rockbox but I really don't think so. You're the first I've seen report this.
18:36:05idanthat's very werid
18:37:56bertrikmaybe the battery is "just" rather deeply discharged, you could try to allow it to charge for a few hours in the original firmware
18:38:10FlynDiceI would at least try bertrik's suggestion to reseat it. Open it up, remove the battery, then replace it. Not too complicated and all of 2 mins work.
18:39:53FlynDiceIf you're not seeing the "lighning bolt" charge indicator when hooked up via usb you might try another usb connecter also
18:41:00FlynDicebut then again if it's a dead batt and it works while hooked up that would mean it is getting power though usb.....
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18:41:27FlynDicegtg good luck
18:44:39idanfuck it's work again
18:44:49idani charge it something like second
18:44:58idanthen its show battery status again
18:44:59idanand it's work
18:46:21idannah stop work again
18:47:01idanit's work
18:47:12idanbut after few minutes it's shut down again
18:48:17idani think i stay it charge for some hours
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19:33:55DerPapstanybody knows how to restoe a gigabeat s on windows? according to the wiki one has to use the patched gigabeat V updater but only the unpatched version is downloadable. the gigabeat s updater doesn't recognize my beast.
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19:41:58DerPapstfound the patched version.
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21:07:09q0_0pi have rockbox on archos studio player 20 gig and it works with batteries but if i plug in ac power it gives me a ata -11 error
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21:12:08amiconnq0_0p: The archos studio (and recorder) don't work without their batteries
21:12:17q0_0pamiconn, it has batteries in
21:12:52 Nick Spaceg is now known as Space (
21:12:54q0_0pamiconn, it works with batteries
21:12:58amiconnWhen does that ata error appear? What rockbox version are you running?
21:13:10q0_0pamiconn, the latest stable release
21:13:50q0_0pamiconn, using 3.4
21:13:51amiconnRelease 3.4 has a bug
21:13:52 Join Omlet^away [0] (
21:14:16q0_0pamiconn, wat version should i use?
21:14:39amiconnAlthough, I don't think this bug would result in an ata error -11
21:14:55q0_0pamiconn, if so i will try 2.5 should that be ok?
21:15:00amiconnAgain, hwo do you trigger that error?
21:15:05amiconn2.5 is stone age
21:15:15*amiconn recommends a current build
21:15:20q0_0pamiconn, alright
21:15:59beta2kAnyone have a view on the Sansa e2x0 DAPs?
21:23:11 Join dfkt [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
21:24:02Unhelpfulit appears my theory was correct... i put four copies of the same clz function in a .S file, each after a .align 4, with a .space of 0, 4, 8, or 12 bytes following. these were benchmarked with a cpucache_invalidate following each call to the clz function, and the speed varies based on alignment... so presumably the table that follows the function code is *sometimes* cached when instructions for the function are, depending on alignment.
21:25:44Unhelpfulthe clz implementation in question is this one:
21:26:15CIA-6New commit by tomers (r24119): Return NULL istead of 0 in function which returns a pointer
21:27:15q0_0pamiconn, rockbox loads but cannot see hdd in cpu
21:27:26q0_0pamiconn, any way i can get it to read the hdd?
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21:29:11q0_0pamiconn, is it dead?
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21:30:39Unhelpfulthe difference is there even if the value passed to clz is chosen to load a value from the end of the table, which will not be on the same cacheline as any function code regardless of alignment. it could also be due to the number of cachelines the function code is split across, but shouldn't code be loading into icache before it's reached, regardless of alignment?
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21:56:35LloreanWhat happens if there's not enough RAM for a voice file to be loaded? Is there any sort of caching like the glyphcache for fonts, or does it just load until it can't fit any more and discard the rest?
22:00:17amiconnIt doesn't load at all
22:02:07LloreanThat doesn't seem to be what's occurring right now then
22:02:36LloreanSomeone on the tracker is having a problem on the clip and it appears to be because an 800+k voice file loads when the buffer is something like half that
22:03:18amiconnThe voice file buffer is separate from the audio buffer size (on swcodec)
22:03:41LloreanBut it's not allocated until a voice file is loaded, right?
22:03:50amiconnThe fact that he has a voice file installed is (on of the) reasons the buffer is so small
22:04:01LloreanThe buffer was that small without a voice file loaded
22:04:09amiconnIt is allocated at boot, for the largest voice file rockbox can find on disk
22:04:11LloreanOnce he loaded the voice file it reported as *negative* some value
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22:04:26amiconnIt's not about being loaded but about *presence*
22:04:39q0_0pamiconn, what could be the problem of ata -1?
22:04:47q0_0pamiconn, so far can't read the hdd on cpu
22:05:08Lloreanamiconn: The problem reported is based on the presence (rather than loading) of the voice file
22:05:16amiconnq0_0p: I don't have a crystal ball. I asked you under what conditions it happens exactly
22:05:30q0_0pamiconn, ah
22:05:36q0_0pamiconn, sorry
22:05:52Lloreanamiconn: If the largest voice file on disk is larger than the buffer, it will fail to start playback.
22:06:09amiconnLlorean: Yeah, I'd expect that (on swcodec)
22:06:28*amiconn thinks that lowmem swcodec should probably handle voice like swcodec
22:06:35amiconnErr, like hwcodec
22:06:46 Quit tomers ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091215231400]")
22:07:05amiconnI.e. load the voice file into the buffer instead of setting aside some meory
22:07:08*Llorean would expect it to fail to load the voice at all rather than simply break playback.
22:07:35LloreanWhy do we set aside memory? Wouldn't loading it into the buffer be more efficient in terms of getting the right amount of memory used?
22:07:52amiconnI guess the code that does the allocation simply assumes a voice file can never be larger than the buffer
22:08:03LloreanAlso would a maximum allocation with a cache of some sort like glyphcache make any sense? Since most people probably don't need the entire menu structure permanently in RAM.
22:08:20amiconnImo it wouldn't
22:08:43LloreanEven for targets that can never realistically fit a whole voice file?
22:09:02amiconnFor fonts it makes sense since a very few people ever use all glyphs from a font
22:09:30amiconnAll currently supported targets can realistically fit a whole voice files
22:09:37LloreanNo, the clip really can't
22:09:47amiconnHmm? Afaik it has 2MB RAM
22:10:21LloreanAnd the voice file is something like 800kb
22:10:27amiconnSpeex voice files are in the 800KB range (if they're made using sane parameters)
22:10:31LloreanWhile the buffer (without voice) is something like 400-600kb depending on settings
22:10:42amiconnWhy is that?
22:10:45LloreanNo clue
22:10:48*amiconn would expect 1MB+ buffer
22:10:56LloreanJust the case at the moment.
22:11:08LloreanMaybe they're giving it a full sized plugin buffer?
22:11:23amiconnThat would be silly...
22:11:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:11:54amiconnAnyway, if a too large voice files causes negative buffer sizes, the voice loading code needs fixing
22:13:05amiconnActually we could do voice caching on flash targets, but it would complicate the voice code
22:13:13 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
22:13:43amiconnOn the Ondio, we don't load the whole voice file at once because it would take seconds
22:13:59amiconnInstead, we just load the header first, and the load clips on demand
22:14:28amiconnThe in-memory layout stays the same as if we'd load the whole file at once, in order to keep things simple
22:14:52LloreanThat would allow larger-than-buffer voice files then?
22:15:03amiconnOnce loaded, the clips stay in memory until the whole voice file gets flushed again (by starting playback)
22:15:39kugelmy clip has a 330k buffer, but I have timestretch enabled
22:16:02amiconnSomething is clearly wrong on the Clip
22:17:53kugelbinsize is ~430k, ram usage ~700k, then the plugin buffer takes ~400k
22:18:20kugel(the codec buffer is entirely in iram which doesn't count into the 2MB)
22:18:33amiconnPlugin buffer should be reduzed to 64KB or maybe even 48KB imo
22:18:54LloreanIf the codec buffer is in iram, that wouldn't help then
22:19:02LloreanWell, I guess it'd help with voice
22:19:06amiconnSure it would
22:19:24amiconn400KB->48KB means an extra 352KB for the buffer
22:20:16kugeltotal RAM - (binsize+ram usage+codec buffer+plugin buffer) = audio buffer?
22:20:35*amiconn thinks that the Clip (and other potential lowmem arm targets) would profit from using thumb for everything but the most time critical routines
22:21:56amiconnkugel: You need to subtract everything that is buffer_alloc'ed as well
22:22:13kugelis something buffer_alloced by default?
22:22:17amiconnVoice buffer, dircache etc
22:23:15amiconnI'm not sure which other things are buffer_alloc'ed nowadays
22:23:27 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
22:29:58Spacewith rockbox can I put the songs without any program?
22:30:05Spacesuch as hard disk?
22:30:21Spaceone folder for artist, an another for the album
22:30:50krazykitthat's correct
22:30:56krazykityou can organize it however you like
22:31:03Spaceand later if I like have a database of date, maybe I can find a program for that, for create a database
22:31:40Spacefor each folder in the root, take the name of artist
22:31:49Spaceand for each folder in that folder, the album
22:31:59krazykiti'm not sure what you mean by that
22:32:12Spaceand remove the numbers before songs
22:32:13krazykitrockbox's database will use the metadata in your files
22:33:03SpaceI don't understand some things in the manual
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22:34:14Tornesaratoga: what's this you put on the wiki about clipv2 dev boards?
22:34:39saratogaTorne: i just have a clipv2 if anyone wants one
22:34:43saratogaits a standard model
22:34:47Torneoh right
22:34:59Tornei thought you meant something less baffling :)
22:35:07Tornei have a clipv2 already
22:35:23saratogawell feel free to clarify the wiki :)
22:36:06Tornei mean less baffling than the clipv2 hardware
22:36:09Tornenot that your statement was unclear :)
22:36:20Tornestupid mystery SoC
22:37:18saratogaits probably not too different from teh v1, where its a customized SOC, its just that they changed something we tend to notice (the CPU)
22:37:28saratogarather then just some peripherals
22:37:32Torneyeah, it's just surprising that AMS don't seem to know what it is
22:37:58Tornei guess AMS just sent them off with the IP to do what they feel like ;)
22:38:29saratogathe email funman quoted sounded like the guy knew but couldn't say anything
22:38:45saratogahe said something like "the as3531 datasheet probably won't help you"
22:39:25saratogamaybe we'll get lucky and it'll turn out the new chip's IRAM isn't useless
22:43:35saratogai'm still baffled that PP of all vendors is able to make an ARM SOC without useless IRAM
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22:43:43saratogawhile seemingly competent companies cannot
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23:01:55kugelthat's probably because that all others think the cache is good enough
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