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#rockbox log for 2010-01-06

00:00:01kugeltake care*
00:00:53JdGordon|I'm not sure I like the way its done.... for now its OK though
00:01:35JdGordon|I want it in such a way that the flag can be set for "follow lang direction" and a seperate flag for "force rtl" or "was swapped" or something
00:03:07kugelshould be doable
00:03:22kugelthat doesn't relate to the color flag really though
00:03:38JdGordon|bassically I want to know after the lang changed that viewport X was set to follow the lang, and that the last lang was RTL (or LTR) so we can get the origional x position again
00:03:43JdGordon|not at all
00:03:48JdGordon|you brought it up though :)
00:04:22kugelI brought up that the vp struct has a flag field so that there's no need for hacking the flag into the color values
00:06:06 Quit bmbl ("Bye!")
00:06:07kugelthe ui vp will only work in a few cases if you modify the x position depending on rtl
00:06:32JdGordon|you are dragging the topic in a direction I had no intention of going :)
00:07:11 Join krazykit` [0] (
00:08:06kugelthis one will probably look very funny in a rtl language
00:08:48JdGordon|the whole left column moves to the right side
00:09:11JdGordon|whats fun is having the progressbar move backwards but the left and right buttons arnt swapped
00:09:38kugelexcept if parts of the left column are part of the backdrop
00:10:07JdGordon|1) they arnt, 2) mirror the backdrop
00:11:11kugel2) dynamically?
00:12:01*kugel thinks demanding people to mirror the backdrop on a pc isn't really a solution
00:12:24kugelthat defeats the purpose of "rtl aware themes" too
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00:14:14 Quit stripwax ("")
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00:15:22pixelmamirroring the backdrop also won't always look right if it has some visual "depth" in it (like this one has)
00:16:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:16:42 Quit krazykit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:17:48JdGordon|kugel: sorry... dont take this the wrong way, but I give up... you are entirely missing the point of the whole excersize
00:18:40kugelI'm not. I'm saying blindly modifying the location of viewports is the wrong approach
00:19:27kugelespecially in case of the ui vp where there would be no way of avoiding this
00:19:30JdGordon|its an approach which will work 90+% of the time with very little effort
00:20:20*Torne installs tex so he can see if his manual entry is totally broken :)
00:21:34kugelJdGordon|: 90% is a bogus number, and anyway I'm sure we can do better than that
00:22:03JdGordon|yes, fix the lcd driver to draw (o,o) to be the top right pixel instead of top left
00:23:20flybackanyone here hardware hacked on the iriver h10 5gb/6gb series, leave me a message
00:23:30JdGordon|also, remember the whole thing is a benefit:cost thing... there is only a very small proportion of the user base that will ever use any of this
00:24:43TorneTeX is crazy
00:26:46Tornelooks like it worked ok though, manual seems readable ;)
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00:41:37 Quit evilnick ("from worktime to hometime, hurrah")
00:46:03Tornebugger. frotz is just over 64kb so doesn't fit on m200 or logikdax or ifp7xx either :(
00:46:16Torneit needs to be an overlay for them too, not just the archoses
00:47:11Tornethat's surprisingly big for something that runs text adventures :)
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00:54:23gevaertsTorne: maybe compiler options help there?
00:55:47 Quit CaptainKewll ("Page closed")
00:55:49gevaertsanyway, ifp7xx probably doesn't compile these days, and logikdax doesn't have a normal rockbox build yet
00:56:11gevaertssome of the m200 variants might be closer though
00:58:45 Join UDontKnowMe [0] (
00:59:08UDontKnowMehow do I view photos? Do I need a special plugin or a certain filetype?
01:00:40 Quit Zarggg (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:01:15UDontKnowMeokay I'm pretty sure they're jpg... wait I sync'd these a long time ago with the Sansa Media Converter, could that be a problem?
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01:02:19JdGordon|oh, they cant be progressive scan
01:02:24JdGordon|so maybe thats the issue
01:02:32gevaertsare you sure they're still jpg then? I wouldn't be surprised if that tool transforms them to some proprietary format
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01:02:51UDontKnowMeWell rockbox shows them as compatible, because that's all I have set to show
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01:03:00UDontKnowMethat's why I'm confused :S
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01:08:07 Part Vampireking
01:10:32Torneis there any chance that someone would help me make frotz into an overlay plugin for the lowmem targets? I really don't get the makefile rules, have no such target to test on, and don't have the toolchain built for archos :)
01:11:01Tornelatest code is on FS #10370
01:21:02JdGordon|#ifdef it for lowmem then :)
01:21:51TorneWell I could
01:22:00Tornebut it'd be nicer to commit it for every target :)
01:22:06Tornewell, except charcell
01:22:25gevaertsWhy not charcell? :)
01:22:51Torneit wouldn't be a big change to make it work on charcell tbh i expect :)
01:22:53JdGordon|DEATH TO CHARCELL!
01:22:56Tornebut it would probaly be pointless
01:23:08Torneas the charcell screens aren't enough cells to play *anything* on the zmachine
01:23:24Tornethe ipod video screen with sysfont is technically smaller than the recommended minimum in the zmachine spce ;)
01:23:38gevaertsthat's why you do scrolling :)
01:23:51Tornethe spec expects to get 60 fixed width chars across the screen
01:23:57gevaertsof course you'll need more than one PLA context then
01:24:00Torneit's not a hard requirement, but hey
01:24:11Tornegames are often not tested at less than 80 :)
01:24:47Tornescrolling wouldn't be hard, the output driver i wrote is basically a virtual tty anyway
01:24:54Tornebut again, probably pointless :)
01:25:05Torneany game that would need it to be playable probably wouldn't be any mmore playable with it ;)
01:25:44 Quit Sajber^ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:26:55gevaertsare they now? ;)
01:27:35Tornetargets with a four way joystick are probably significantly less bad than the ipod
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02:00:52saratogaTorne: can't you just put code in data files on the disk, and have the plugin just be an fopen, a cache flush and a jump?
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02:13:42JdGordon1is the h300 sim usable without a numpad?
02:13:49JdGordon1actually... whats the a-b button?
02:16:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:16:44JdGordon1insert :/
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02:22:23*JdGordon1 doesnt understand the a.b mark drawing code at all
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03:10:03 Nick krazykit` is now known as krazykit (
03:36:12Jhonny5Hey, im trying install Rockbox, but Rockbox said me that my iPod it's 6th generation, when i think it's 5th generation. It's absolutly true that Rockbox said?
03:36:37JdGordonwhy do you tihnk its a 6th gen?
03:36:41JdGordon5th gen i mean
03:36:53Jhonny5Because i see the pics on google
03:36:59Jhonny5it's a iPod Video 80G
03:37:25Jhonny5[INFO] Scanning disk devices...
03:37:25Jhonny5[ERR] Partition layout is not an ipod
03:39:49JdGordonis it windows formatted or apple?
03:40:34 Quit S_a_i_n_t (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:40:51Jhonny5JdGordon, Windows (fat32)
03:41:13JdGordonumm, I dunno
03:41:46Jhonny5Im sure that's it's 5 now
03:42:01krazykitum, does it work in the OF and itunes on a windows machine?
03:43:40Jhonny5in a linux machine
03:49:00Jhonny5i gonna try on windows
03:50:09Jhonny5other question: the bootloader supports dual load (MacOS and Rockbox)?
03:56:12Jhonny5win said the same :S
03:58:03krazykitbut the device is otherwise functional? even with itunes?
04:02:03Jhonny5yes, sure
04:06:00krazykitassuming your music is backed up (it should be!) you could make itunes do a "restore" on the device. that should leave it in a rockboxable state
04:06:54Jhonny5no, but i didnt still install the Rockbox cause in the first step breaks
04:07:36 Quit panni_ ("( :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: )")
04:09:22Jhonny5btw, i have a buck up, but it's just the copy of all files from that i can see in linux. Should be enougth?
04:16:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:20:09krazykiti'm not sure, as i'm not really familiar enough with ipods
04:20:49*flyback heads out for a bit, bbl
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04:21:09Jhonny5Ok, thanks a lot
04:21:16Jhonny5I gonna sleep
04:21:19Jhonny5see you
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04:23:13j8048188I just re-installed rockbox on my e280v2 (after the 4-bit data corruption) and i see that some files are green and folders yellow. Are these supported files?
04:30:18j8048188Also, what is the highest WMA bitrate that Rockbox supports?
04:37:08 Part froggyman
04:50:49*flyback bites j8048188
04:50:55flybackdamn swedish terrorists
04:51:07flybackwe will never forgive you for your country's crimes against humanity!
04:51:11flyback"ace of base" and "abba"
04:51:14*flyback ducks
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04:53:20*flyback checks j8048188 for virtal signs
04:53:22flybackjoke man, joke
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05:19:12saratogaj8048188: it should decode any WMA std file
05:19:25 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
05:19:41saratogathe bit rate doesn't really make a difference to the decoder, its mostly something that matter when encoding only
05:29:08j8048188ok. It's a 952 kb/s file. Rockbox refuses to play it, though. It's not protected. How do i tell if it's wma standard or lossless?
05:29:43j8048188NVM it's the lossless variation
05:29:49j8048188ill just have to reencode
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06:02:27flybackby chance would the portaplayer 5120? soc have a master mode usb?
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07:29:59*Strife89 has a suggestion for the "Tooltips" notion but will save it for in the EST morning.
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07:32:57JdGordonits not gonna happen... EVER!
07:33:35Strife89I never said I wanted it to, but I still have a suggestion.
07:33:36LloreanIt's pretty unlikely unless you have a plan for grafting an extra button on every player out there, unless it's just to add a "Help" entry to the context menu.
07:33:51Strife89$20 says it will get s−−- .....
07:34:18Strife89Well, here's my thoughts.
07:34:34 Join einhirn [0] (
07:34:40Strife89To start with, you know how voice files are kept spereately.
07:35:05Strife89They are, therefore, optional, and a user who doesn't need them will save a little space.
07:35:39Strife89In the same vein, why not produce a "help" file in plain text?
07:35:53Strife89Sorted in such a way that ... well, let me finish.
07:36:09LloreanIt's the UI for presenting the help that's the real problem
07:36:36Strife89In Rockbox itself, let's have the user simply hover the selector over the option for, say, five seconds.
07:36:52Strife89If they do so, a small help box could pop up.
07:37:08Strife89It will scroll at the same rate that text in the rest of the UI scrolls.
07:37:09LloreanUnless of course they have the scroll speed set low because it's a slow LCD.
07:37:21LloreanIn which case after five seconds they may not have finished reading what they were trying to read.
07:37:41Strife89If the user presses any buttons, the box vanishes, the UI should act as if the box was never there.
07:37:52LloreanPressing buttons also resets the scrolling.
07:38:38LloreanLong lines in lists scroll if you hover over them long enough
07:38:54LloreanOn some screens (for example, H100) it's advisable to have the scroll speed quite low because it otherwise blurs.
07:39:00Strife89Make the pop-up time adjustable.
07:39:28Strife89And, if possible, keep the box at about 2-3 lines tall.
07:39:44LloreanThere's not much you can tell in 2 or even 3 lines on some LCDs.
07:40:12Strife89Make the box appear on the OPPOSITE end of the screen, in relation to the selection bar's position.
07:40:41Strife89Llorean: Yes, but it's not really meant to be a full-blown Help system.
07:40:49S_a_i_n_tyou're making it sound easy to do...
07:40:56JdGordondont waste your time... its not ever going to happen
07:41:02Strife89S_a_i_n_t: I never said I thought it was easy,
07:41:17Strife89nor did I say I thought there was a chance it would happen.
07:41:31LloreanStrife89: If it's not in-depth it really won't solve the problem. The problem is usually for things complex enough where if the name isn't enough, a slightly longer description probably won't either.
07:42:16Strife89You've got me there.
07:43:04S_a_i_n_tI'd hate it if a help box ate up half the screen on my nanos.
07:43:24Strife89S_a_i_n_t: I had said to keep it to three lines. :/
07:43:25LloreanI don't see it as impossible that, for example, there could be a "help" plugin of some sort, which could also be accessed from context menus to immediately jump to the descriptions of items in it.
07:43:28S_a_i_n_tsmall screen players couldn;t do it well.
07:44:09S_a_i_n_t3 lines in 12pt font is 36 lines, plus a border, that's at least a third of the screen
07:44:52Strife89S_a_i_n_t: But the box would only appear if you sit on a spot for x amount of time.
07:44:59S_a_i_n_tLlorean: I like that way of looking at it.
07:45:05Strife89It would vanish if you pressed any buttons.
07:45:32Strife89Llorean: I like that idea. Definitely simpler to implement than mine.
07:45:53*Strife89 is Captian Obvious again.......
07:46:08S_a_i_n_tthat way (maybe) you could organise help entries according to preference
07:46:10S_a_i_n_tor use
07:46:58Strife89S_a_i_n_t: It would be simpler to call a specific line, though, rather than look for a specific string.
07:47:42Strife89Smaller binsize and less RAM.
07:47:52Strife89s/RAM/RAM used.
07:48:03*S_a_i_n_t points ot were still talking *theory* at the moment...
07:48:25Strife89That's part of the thoery, though.
07:48:42Strife89I've seen it stressed enough around here....
07:49:00Strife89Don't waste RAM and don't bloat the binary.
07:49:14Strife89That's the impression I tend to get, at least.
07:49:30S_a_i_n_tI just meant it would be good of the user could organise the listing of the help files, so that if one in particular was used often, it could be put nearer the to, instead of scrolling through a long list.
07:49:53LloreanI'm not sure I see why a single help entry would be used often.
07:50:14S_a_i_n_tgoood point.
07:50:36Strife89S_a_i_n_t: The idea Llorean proposed says that the user opens the file through the context menu for that option, and THAT jumps the help file to the right spot.
07:50:48Strife89Ergo, no scrolling to find the help you need.
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08:08:26Strife89Meh, here's an idea.
08:08:47Strife89Have a variable in the .cfg file. Values are either 0 or 1.
08:08:58Strife89A fresh install has it at 0.
08:09:13Strife89If 0, then when Rockbox is started, display a splash:
08:09:25Strife89"Have you read the manual?" and a URL.
08:09:35Strife89Then set the variable to 1.
08:09:42Strife89Done. :P
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08:57:56UnhelpfulStrife89: no, the user has to set it to 1 via a secret procedure documented in the manual.
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09:08:16S_a_i_n_twouldn't it be better to get rbutil to do that, instead of the DAP?
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10:36:19sirmike1970mddoes anybody know if rb will support the ipod nano 5g in the near future
10:37:40S_a_i_n_tdepends if you're gauging near future on your existence, or the earths.
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10:38:24topikafaik there is no known exploit to even put something custom on the nano 5g
10:38:56S_a_i_n_tipodlinux guys thought they had an exploit for a while, but didn't.
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13:17:19liarS_a_i_n_t: do you have any chance to connect your nano2g to a linux machine? i would like to see some dmesg output
13:18:23S_a_i_n_tnot without a bit of pissing around, it's 1am
13:21:08liarno its 1pm :P. i dont need it now, but it would be very interessting..
13:25:50S_a_i_n_tliar: I saw your Nano 2g USB is broken, and sucks, bug report.
13:27:51S_a_i_n_tdo you think you've actually narrowed the bug down? or just found an odd hack that stops it (for now)?
13:28:26liari've found 2 bugs
13:29:16liarbut no good solution to both of them
13:29:32S_a_i_n_tlet's hope they're in the "easily fixed" category
13:30:32liarthe first one should be easily fixed, the second one is just strange
13:30:52S_a_i_n_tyour 'solution' to it is rather
13:31:02S_a_i_n_t...but if it works
13:31:43liarthere may be even a 3 and a 4th bug :D
13:32:05S_a_i_n_tmaybe safer to keep counting ;D
13:32:53liarthe 4th has to do with poweron/off
13:32:59liari think
13:33:10S_a_i_n_twhat of it?
13:33:27*S_a_i_n_t hasn;t experienced anything in power on/off
13:34:16liarbecause if i reconnect my nano2g to the computer usb fails even if it worked before(the ipod is not registered by the os, not even in dmesg)
13:34:22liarusb-poweron/off i meant
13:36:52S_a_i_n_tI built my 2g from bits of 3 others too :P
13:37:07*S_a_i_n_t wonders why HIS Nano 2g doesn't hate HIM as much as everyone elses does...
13:38:35liaryou said usb hid turned on doesnt work for you too
13:39:03S_a_i_n_tno, it doesn'y
13:40:18liarand thats what i am trying to fix
13:40:47S_a_i_n_twell, I'm not entirely sure what it does, but ok
13:40:56S_a_i_n_tif you do, great :D
13:42:51S_a_i_n_tI *once* had HID ON and plugged it in and it was detected as "Rockbox (Something-or-other), but did that beep_reboot to dfu thing almost immediately afterward
13:43:21S_a_i_n_tbefore, and since, HID ON never worked
13:44:12gevaertsS_a_i_n_t: didn't you (or someone else?) notice that sometimes two-byte packets don't work? That sort of thing might easily cause HID to make trouble
13:46:54S_a_i_n_tmust've been someone else
13:46:57liargevaerts: i noticed that
13:47:22liarbut i am not sure if it really has to do with the package length
13:48:06S_a_i_n_tUSB HID 'ON" is what's supposed to let the host detect it as a rockbox device right?
13:48:12S_a_i_n_tin lamens terms...
13:48:25gevaertsS_a_i_n_t: HID on turns HID on...
13:49:38gevaertsI have no idea what you mean by "a rockbox device" there
13:49:51S_a_i_n_tbut is that why when it was on that one time it was detected as 'Rockbox (something-or-other)
13:50:11S_a_i_n_tummmm, when it's plugged in initially
13:50:27S_a_i_n_tWIN displays a baloon of the device plugged in
13:50:42S_a_i_n_twith usb hid on that olne time, it was different
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14:26:34soapSaint, think of HID as an additional service that your rockbox device can offer the computer, along with mass storage. It toggles the offering of the service, not the identification of the device.
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14:44:22amiconnTorne: Making an overlay is failry simple; it's mostly copy&paste
14:45:01Tornei was copying from rockboy but it didn't really work
14:45:17Tornealso is there not a better way to specify which platforms get the overlay built than their string names?
14:46:21Tornefrotz needs to be an overlay on more platforms than the others, because it is even bigger and explodes the 64kb plugin buffer targets as well as the 32kb ones (archos)
14:46:36amiconnSo far there isn't, afaik
14:46:38Torneiriverifp7xx, logikdax and sansam200 are also too small
14:46:44Tornenot just archos
14:47:02amiconnYou need to add the respective loader plugin as well, of course
14:48:19Tornei guess technically those three aren't supported
14:48:27Torneso maybe it doesn't matter if frotz builds on them?
14:49:01Tornei tried building them to test but rockbox itself failed to compile for all three :)
14:49:08*amiconn wonders what didn't work
14:49:14gevaertsTorne: which m200?
14:49:18Torneold m200
14:49:22Tornem200v4 has a large plugin buffer
14:49:33Torneamiconn: er, various compile errors
14:49:38amiconnIt might be that needs work for other architectures, but it should be fairly generic
14:49:50Tornei probably just got he make stuff wrong..
14:50:10Tornei guess that only leaves archos and they are all non-arm so i need another toolchain?
14:52:31gevaertsTorne: I wouldn't be surprised if those three would go to 32K eventually anyway, they have 1MB RAM
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14:52:54Torneright. i guess it's easier to just do it for archos as the others are, then.
14:53:29Torneand leave it to the porters if/when they eventually get as far as building plugins
14:53:40*Torne builds an sh toolchain then
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15:24:29liarcould usb_drv_send(EP_CONTROL,NULL,0); cause problems? TheSeven did DOEPDMA(ep) = (uint32_t)ptr; in ep_recv without checking if ptr == NULL so...?
15:32:02kugelliar: poke gevaerts with these sort of questions :)
15:32:25liargevaerts: poke :)
15:33:01gevaertskugel: why? That's a driver question
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15:33:06*gevaerts has no idea
15:33:30kugelgevaerts: that's already a hint :)
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15:33:56gevaertsI can only tell you that the driver is supposed to handle that, not if it does :)
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15:37:09liarif i pass an empty array to DOEPDMA(ep) if ptr==NULL rockbox does not freeze but usb still does not work
15:40:09liargevaerts: before i meant usb_drv_recv. but i suppose the driver should handle that too
15:40:49gevaertsliar: same thing. Those are mainly used to ack control transactions
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15:48:43CIA-9New commit by mc2739 (r24191): FS #10856 - Skip to previous track inconsistent when using cuesheet
15:51:51liargevaerts: wait... the driver should handle this, or the chip?
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15:54:36gevaertsliar: The usb subsystem needs to be able to send or receive 0-byte packets, which is done using usb_drv_*(EP_*,NULL,0). Whether or not that needs special driver work is going to depend on driver implemtation and chip
15:55:08liari see
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16:00:21liarwhat do i do if the chip is unable to handle this?
16:00:41gevaertsit's not. If you can't handle this, you can't do usb
16:03:46liarbut the whole player locks up after usb_drv_recv(EP_*,NULL,0);
16:04:38gevaertsthen the driver possibly has to do something different in that case
16:08:27liarthats what i meant. i need to know what the driver has to do in this case. and i need a more helpful datasheet :)
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16:11:27*flyback cable is back up to speed before things got upgraded to a all in one deal, yay!
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16:29:29chaosdiabloanyone alive?
16:30:45chaosdiabloi know, it's morning in the USA but i'm from germany and in german it's afternoon
16:32:04gevaertschaosdiablo: most people here don't answer questions unless they're actually asked :)
16:32:13chaosdiabloyes i know
16:32:36chaosdiabloare there any divx plugins for rockbox?
16:32:59chaosdiablowhich codecs can be installed in rockbox?
16:33:33chaosdiabloi mean decoders
16:35:16gevaertsthere's nothing extra to be installed. For video, rockbox does mpeg 1 and 2
16:35:33chaosdiablowhich video resolutions are supported?
16:35:44gevaertsno scaling
16:35:46S_a_i_n_twiki maybe?
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16:36:00gevaertsah, good idea :)
16:36:07gevaertschaosdiablo: should answer most questions
16:36:14chaosdiablowhat does "no scaling" mean?
16:36:33chaosdiabloI'm not that good in engish
16:36:33S_a_i_n_tif not all of the 'default' or 'how do I...' ones...
16:36:44S_a_i_n_tneither are we
16:37:15gevaertsthe video is played at its original resolution. If that's bigger than the screen, you'll only see a bit (and it will probably be slow anyway)
16:37:48S_a_i_n_tin other words, esize the vid to fit your players screen :)
16:40:03chaosdiablomy player does only support 224x176, thats too little for subtitles
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16:41:47chaosdiabloand rockbox doesn't scale the videos...i should buy a new player xD
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16:42:45tomersJdGordon: ping
16:44:55chaosdiablorockbox supports mpeg, my player supports mpeg4part1. whats better?
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16:49:17Tornempeg4 is much better than mpeg1/2
16:49:29Tornein terms of quality for a given size
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16:54:08Strife89Unhelpful: (re:"no, the user has to set it to 1 via a secret procedure documented in the manual.") I guess that would be a better enforcer. :P
16:55:19S_a_i_n_tI loved that....secret procedure...pfffft.
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16:55:57Strife89It'd probably just get more complaints from the stupid users, though (who probably shouldn't be using Rockbox anyway, but hey).
16:56:21S_a_i_n_tI tend to think anyone can use RB.
16:56:45S_a_i_n_tit's just expectations they bring with them fromtheir OFW that gets them into trouble
16:56:52Strife89S_a_i_n_t: That's what I think, too, but.....
16:57:08Strife89Well, there's a saying that I have found to be true.
16:57:24Strife89"Make it idiot-proof, and somone will make a better idiot."
16:59:46S_a_i_n_tmy OFW did it like this, why doesn;t RB?
16:59:59S_a_i_n_t'cos it's not your OFW?!?
17:00:47Strife89When one hopes for something better, they are (wheter they know it or not) inevitably wishing for something different.
17:01:05Strife89After all, how can it be better if it's the same thing?
17:01:21S_a_i_n_tI have noticed tho, even with the 'problems' that they have, that people still tend to stick with rb over the ofw in the end cos it gives them a taste of all the things they want their ofw to do
17:02:18S_a_i_n_tOR, they hate it and uninstall it immediately
17:02:40Strife89Never even giving it a chance in the latter case.
17:03:00Strife89I had an uncle woh I convinced to try Rockbox on his Sansa c250.
17:03:23Strife89At the time, the radio wasn't in the best shape.
17:03:24S_a_i_n_tthey load it up, see the default theme and are like 'yuck, nope'...and uninstall
17:03:40S_a_i_n_ttook me a while to get over how ugly it is from default
17:03:49Strife89It didn't bother me, but my uncle (unknown to me) ONLY used the radio on his c250.
17:04:22S_a_i_n_tthat's a bit odd, an expensive portable radio....
17:04:35Strife89I practically begged him to give it a chance, but three weeks later, he had me uninstall Rockbox.
17:04:59Strife89Just 'cause the radio was unpolished.
17:05:19Strife89He claimed that it was "easier" in the OF.
17:05:42S_a_i_n_tsome people think, if it doesn;t work flawlessly, it doesn;t work
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17:06:05S_a_i_n_tdid he manage to define 'easier'?
17:06:09S_a_i_n_tor no?
17:06:20Strife89Not that I remember.
17:06:48S_a_i_n_tOH! it didn;t read his mind, or wipe his ass for him it :P
17:07:00chaosdiablobye bye
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17:07:20Strife89Something about how he found the menus and button layouts confusing.
17:07:32Strife89Mind you, he never DIDread the manual. >.<
17:07:34S_a_i_n_twouldn;t be a first
17:08:03S_a_i_n_t'confusing menus', again, just comes from expecting things to be the same as the OFW
17:08:08Strife89I pretty much read the manual for him and tried to explain things.
17:08:12Strife89I failed.
17:08:16S_a_i_n_tsame things in the same place
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17:52:43JdGordontomers: pong
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19:09:27JdGordon|kugel: is there any reason to rush 10868?
19:09:41kugelthe bug is hugely annoying for me
19:09:58JdGordon|if its annoying enough then it shuoldnt be an issue to fix it properly :)
19:10:11kugelI don't have the time to do it properly
19:10:46JdGordon|then leave it as is in your local tree
19:11:34kugelor maybe I do it like you, and just commit it
19:11:47AlexPWhy does it always have to get hostile?
19:11:56AlexPThere was no need for that comment
19:12:07kugel*cough* r23606 *cough*
19:12:36JdGordon|> < this close to calling it quits... really....
19:12:41AlexPIt is just childish to make comments like the last one
19:13:27JdGordon|and anyway, that is a terrible answer because that was only needed because it shuold never have gone in in the first place
19:15:03*kugel doesnt see where it was hostile, unless criticism is a bad thing here
19:15:31AlexPPointless snide remarks are a bad thing
19:15:50gevaertskugel: that was not just criticism
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19:18:46kugelit apparently missed its intention, I'm sorry
19:20:54kugelJdGordon|: can you make it right then? as I said, I don't have the time to mess with the new viewport.c stuff now (and not until the weekend at least). of course it shouldn't be rushed if there are objections
19:21:57JdGordon|I can put it on my todo list, but that guarentees nothing of course
19:22:04gevaertsliar: the length==2 is probably indeed a side effect. During the USB connection setup, there are some control transfers with length 2, and control transfers are immediatelly followed (preceded in the code for timing reasons...) by a zero-length transfer, which is the one that breaks if your test results are correct
19:22:21JdGordon|the correct fix shuoldn't be much work at all
19:22:55JdGordon|my biggest issue with backdrops atm is how they are handled in the skin (i.e BADLY)
19:23:07JdGordon|have you (or anyone) tried loading a backdrop in a sbs?
19:24:16gevaertsliar: can you try intercepting the NULL in the driver, and if you see NULL replace it with an array that's declared with USB_DEVBSS_ATTR? Maybe make it big enough to fill a cacheline to avoid other related issues. Look at response_data in usb_core.c for an example of the declaration I mean
19:26:24kugelJdGordon|: %X should be ignored
19:26:33kugelIIRC the backdrop is handled by the skin engine
19:27:00kugelwell, but I haven't tried actually
19:27:00JdGordon|in the case of the sbs yes the %X should probably be ignored (or the backdrop setting be removed :) )
19:27:13JdGordon|but for the fms or wrs thats the wrong behaviour
19:27:29JdGordon|right now the skin engine will put any loaded skin into the single WPS backdrop buffer
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19:28:03JdGordon|I'm trying to come up with a clean way of handling that better
19:28:12kugelwell, if we remove the backdrop setting we can just as well remove the ui vp feature
19:28:27JdGordon|no arguments here :)
19:29:54JdGordon|the issue is where to store the main backdrop image without wasting space, given that the sbs should infact be able to load a backdrop
19:30:13kugelI wouldn't be hugely against it, but it would means that having a sbs loaded is almost mandatory (i.e. an empty sbs with just the %X)
19:30:52JdGordon|you've just done a massive backflip?!
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19:31:47gevaertsliar: to be precise
19:32:06liargevaerts: yeah the ipod does not freeze anymore, but usb still doesnt work :/
19:32:21JdGordon|but anyway, assuming the settings are never ermoved, and we dont want to duplicate buffers or add more special handing code, I'm not sure how to do this
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19:32:31gevaertsliar: any idea how far it gets?
19:32:51kugelI've not done a backflip, we just never talked about removing it entirely :)
19:34:24Utchybannliar: too bad. I still get a *panic* on my nano2g with your patch.
19:34:37gevaertshm, that's actually quite far
19:34:52liarUtchybann: so that may be a different bug
19:35:33liarbut now we know it is something different
19:35:44kugelJdGordon|: is there any problem with putting it on the skin buffer?
19:36:01Utchybannliar: could it be my nand ? I get 'Tried to put block 0 into the pool'.
19:36:13kugelthere's still the idea floating to resize it upon reboot
19:37:03gevaertsliar: interesting... If i read the linux include/asm-generic/errno.h correctly, -75 is EOVERFLOW
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19:37:35gevaertsliar: have you ever used usbmon?
19:38:22liargevaerts: no, not yet
19:38:33Utchybannliar: I have to find some time to read the FTL code.
19:39:03liarUtchybann: i am not that familiar with the ftl code :/ only the lowlevel nand code
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19:41:05gevaertsliar: sudo mount none -t debugfs /sys/kernel/debug/; cd /sys/kernel/debug/usb/usbmon/
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19:42:17gevaertsThen "cat 1t" for according to your dmesg output, then plug in the device
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19:46:49pamauryThe output of usbmon is unreadable without a software to interpret it, like wireshark, no ?
19:46:55JdGordon|kugel: I want to put all the backdrops in that buffer, the issue is what happens when the user wants to change (or load) a bcakdrop from the filebrpwser
19:48:16kugelyou could store the pointer to the buffer position somewhere (backdrop.c maybe), or do something like find_backdrop()
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19:48:34gevaertspamaury: it is indeed not very easy to read :)
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19:48:50gevaertsI'm not sure if wireshark will show proper result codes though
19:48:54kugelluckily backdrops are fixed size so you can replace it inplace without reparsing the skins
19:50:12pamauryLast time I used wireshark it showed quite a bunch of information but I don't remember what exactly, I used it to debug the mysterious 96bytes limit of usbserial and it seems that the error code was present
19:50:38JdGordon|kugel: yeah, thats one possibility, not pretty though
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19:51:30kugelwhat exactly is not pretty?
19:52:22JdGordon|what happens when no SBS is loaded but a main backdrop is?
19:52:39gevaertshm, yes. It seems to also provide proper output
19:52:47gevaertsliar: do you have wireshark installed?
19:52:52kugelthat is with the setting alive, right?
19:53:38liargevaerts: yeah i am just trying to save the results but that program behaves very strange on my netbook. sec
19:53:46pamaurygevaerts: the sole limit of wireshark and which is a usbmon limit iirc is that message data us truncated to x bytes where x=small value !
19:54:13gevaertspamaury: isn't that gone on recent systems? Anyway, I don't think it's important in this case
19:55:07pamauryit should be gone according to some doc I found on the web but on my computer I couldn't get it to work, perhaps it's deactivated on my kernel or wireshark doesn't handle it properly
19:56:39JdGordon|kugel: yes, I've bassically given up with trying to convince everyone that the settings should be removed
19:57:01kugelhas there been a discussion?
19:57:20JdGordon|no, only an argument
19:57:25liarhow do i find out which usb bus i should choose?
19:57:53gevaertsliar: " usb 1-3:" means bus 1
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20:05:53liar1-22 where already shown before i connected the ipod
20:07:33gevaertsliar: can you save that as some sort of real capture file?
20:10:18liargevaerts: export: plain text, csv, c arrays file, xml packet summary file, xml packet details file
20:11:34gevaertsliar: just standard "save as" should work best
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20:15:08Serious_FHello, can somebody tell me if the ipod classic of fifth generation works fine with RockBox, please? In the website it ony says "Ipod", but doesn't specify other than Nano and Mini ipod, which onlywork intheir first generation
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20:15:35Serious_FI need to know the iif the different kinds of ipods, classic, video and the rest would work fine in their fifth generations with rockbox
20:15:59gevaertsSerious_F: the name "Classic" is only used starting from the sixth generation. Before that, the normal ipods are just called ipod
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20:16:41Serious_FWell, it appears ipod classic of fifth generation for instance
20:16:45Serious_FI don't havea clue if it would work...
20:16:55AlexPSerious_F: From the website "iPod 1g through 5.5g" The video is 5/5.5g
20:17:02AlexPSerious_F: The Classic is only the new one
20:17:14AlexPSerious_F: The Video is *not* a Classic
20:17:17liargevaerts: save as is greyed out
20:17:28AlexPSerious_F: Classic is 6G onwards
20:17:32Serious_FSo classic wouldn't work
20:17:36Serious_FI see
20:17:44AlexPNo, the Classic won't but the video will
20:17:47Serious_FThanks, let's see...
20:17:54Serious_FThe video will¿?
20:18:02Serious_FIs it a ipod, a normal one then?
20:18:08AlexPYes, the ipod video is 5 and 5.5G
20:18:15AlexPThe ipod Classic is the 6G only
20:18:31gevaertsliar: weird. I really need all details, maube xml packet details will work...
20:18:32Serious_FI see, have anybody trieed that? Somebody is going to spend money on that and I wouldn't like for it not to work, LOL
20:18:39AlexPYes, of course it has been
20:19:02AlexPIf it is really an ipod video and not an ipod classic, then it will be fine
20:19:19liargevaerts: it works now.. capture has to be stopped before save as works(but export works :S)
20:19:26Serious_FOK, thanks a lot, I will pass on the information. The ipod video is only of fifth gerneration?
20:19:27gevaertsah, ok
20:19:33AlexPThis is the 30 and 60 GB ones, and the 80 GB Videos but not the 80 GB classic
20:19:36Serious_FI meabn, no way for the person who will buy it to get confused?
20:19:43AlexPSerious_F: And 5.5G as I've said three times now :)
20:20:03AlexPSerious_F: Yes, they could get confused
20:20:10GodEaterSerious_F: unless you're very familiar with the different generations it's easy to be confused
20:20:13AlexPYou can't buy the Video new you know
20:20:22AlexPIt has long been discontinued
20:20:41Serious_FOK, in all of those would work as long as it is video. Thank you, hehe
20:20:56Serious_FThat's why I ask
20:20:59TorneNone of the currently-sold-as-new iPods run rockbox
20:21:11AlexPApple has a handy page to tell them apart
20:21:49Serious_FOK, so nothing sold as new
20:21:57Serious_FI will make sure that it is 5th generation, video
20:22:29Torneyou can tell the difference between the video and classic easily if you have it in your hand: the classic is entirely metal, the video only has a metal back and a plastic front
20:23:04Serious_FI see
20:23:07Serious_Fmetal and plastic
20:23:19AlexPSerious_F: See the link I gave you
20:23:39AlexPAvoid anything called Classic there
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20:27:21Serious_Fipod video 30 gb is ok?
20:28:04Serious_Fthanks a lot really!!!
20:28:50 Quit Serious_F ()
20:36:49gevaertsliar: I'm now back at looking at the raw usbmon output :). I suspect that the problem is that usb_drv_send(EP_CONTROL,NULL,0) actually sends some real data. I have no idea how much, it's not captured (no doubt because there's no memory allocated for it)
20:37:50liarshould i try to memset 0 the dummy_data?
20:37:54liargevaerts: ?
20:38:19gevaertsliar: no point really. It should send exactly zero bytes from that, which it doesn't
20:38:47liarah i see
20:39:09liargevaerts: if (!length) DIEPTSIZ(ep) = 1 << 19; /* one empty packet */
20:39:25liarthats what TheSeven does
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20:41:45gevaertsliar: you don't happen to have a hardware USB analyser nearby?
20:42:29liargevaerts: no :/
20:44:29liargevaerts: an oscilloscope at school :D
20:44:35gevaertsthat won't help you
20:44:40liaryeah i know
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20:46:26JdGordon|liar: I can send you our hardware usb analyser if you want
20:47:20liargevaerts: the strange thing is, if i dont send that message with length==2, usb works most of the time
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20:48:16liarJdGordon|: i think it would be a better idea if i would send my ipod to anybody of you :)
20:48:30 Part watto
20:52:29gevaertsliar: what happens if you set DIEPTSIZ(ep) = 0? I'm not entirely sure if it should be 1<<19 or 0 here. Do you have the s3c6400x datasheet?
20:54:16 Quit darkham ("Sto andando via")
20:54:42liargevaerts: i've just found it
20:55:10gevaertsAfter looking again at the usbmon dump, I suspect that the device actually sends two bytes
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21:02:25liargevaerts: DIEPTSIZ(ep) = 0 does not work either
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21:03:04tomersJdGordon: Ping
21:03:45gevaertsliar: I can't remember now, does it work on some devices, or for some people?
21:04:11 Join rhodan [0] (
21:04:12liarit works for TheSeven and some others
21:04:29liarsagemfreak and others are getting usb stkovs
21:04:37gevaertsbut are there reports from people who have both a working and a non-working device?
21:04:39liareven if we increase the stack size by 8kB
21:04:55gevaertsfor this issue I mean. ftl things are a different matter
21:06:07liarduh i havent said anything about ftl? i think sagemfreak has one working
21:06:24 Quit domonoky (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:06:51gevaertsyou haven't, but we have to be careful not to confuse the various issues
21:08:43 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
21:09:04gevaertsliar: maybe add a panic() in ep_send() and ep_recv() in case endpoints[ep].busy==true when you get there. apart from the datasheet not matching (which is unlikely if it works on some devices) that's the only thing I can think of
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21:11:05sandman06will there be any news posted regarding future release. or will it be put back
21:11:22GodEaterfuture release of what?
21:11:37GodEaterdo you mean 3.5 ?
21:11:49sandman06yes because i read the mailing list
21:11:58sandman06and they said they might skip and go to 3.6
21:12:15GodEateryes, I'm afraid I'm no better informed than you
21:12:25GodEaterthat email thread has left me completely confused
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21:13:35sandman06what mp3 player do you have if u dont mind me asking
21:13:41GodEaterI have about 6
21:14:03sandman06lol ok
21:14:14sandman06your best one then
21:14:15liargevaerts: ep_send, endpoints[ep].busy==true...
21:14:21GodEateriRiver H140
21:14:29GodEaterbut "best" is subjective
21:14:34GodEaterit's not the one I use every day
21:14:55gevaertsliar: I think the entire driver should be carefully compared to that datasheet. ..
21:15:40gevaertsliar: one problem might be that EP0 is bidirectional, and that the busy indication might therefore not be accurate
21:16:08sandman06well sadly my sansa e280 is not longer usable. due to the stupid scroll wheel. so i have switched to toshiba gigabeat s
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21:17:23*gevaerts stops looking that this driver for today
21:19:07liargevaerts: thanks for your help. i'll try to compare the driver with the datasheet.
21:20:45AlexPsandman06: If/when anything is decided, it'll be announced, but as GodEater says I don't think anyone knows what is going on
21:21:29sandman06no problem. thanks
21:23:28sandman06has development on making certain ports stopped ? or is development still ongoing
21:23:45AlexPA lot of stuff is for all ports
21:25:38AlexPOnly hardware/driver stuff is specific
21:25:38AlexP(loosely speaking)
21:25:38AlexPAnd that depends on both how mature the port is, and on what devs there are working on it
21:25:38sandman06ok i see. because as it stands gigabeat S port seems to be nearly complete for function status, so that it can be thrown into the installer
21:25:38DBUGEnqueued KICK AlexP
21:25:38AlexPnot quite
21:25:38AlexPThere are a couple of stopper problems with the S
21:25:38sandman06im guessing DAC driver ?
21:25:48AlexPNo, why do you say that?
21:26:01AlexPOne is that on some players there is a problem where the bootloader can't find the binary
21:26:15sandman06because on wiki it mentions some stuff
21:26:28AlexPAnother is that sometimes something happens where the Toshiba bootloader decides to format the player
21:26:50AlexPAlso, although this doesn't preclude much, battery life is pretty crap
21:27:02sandman06ok so its more of a bootloader problem
21:27:11AlexPsort of
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21:27:56sandman06i thought the gigabeat would be best player considering its hardeware spec
21:28:06AlexPDepends on what you want
21:28:13AlexPbest is very subjective
21:28:26sandman06as godeater mentioned
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21:28:59AlexPI like the S and it is one of my most used players, but it isn't what I consider the best one I own
21:29:00sandman06well i guess best is. long battery life
21:29:14sandman06which my sansa e280 had
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21:29:22AlexPNot compared to some
21:29:30AlexPbut certainly better than the beast
21:29:34S_a_i_n_tgodeater also said best was subjective
21:29:46AlexPS_a_i_n_t: Yes, we know
21:29:52sandman06what has the best batter life ? h10
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21:30:06GodEaternot even close
21:30:10AlexPThe m5l and x5l
21:30:22AlexPm5l is 45 hours odd I think
21:30:34AlexPMy H140 with a bigger battery in it gets 30
21:30:55AlexPOr did when the battery was new :)
21:30:58 Quit Horscht (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:31:07AlexPIs there a m3l?
21:31:20sandman06what i never understood in terms of sound. is frequency response. there some headphoen that claim 5hz-30khz. when human ear can only hear between 20hz-20khz
21:31:22GodEater36 hours or so I think with the 2200mA battery in it
21:31:39AlexPsandman06: Depends on the ear
21:32:10AlexPGodEater: In the H140? I have a 220 mAh that got ~30 (but that is good enough for me)
21:32:17AlexPer, 2200 mAh :)
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21:32:35GodEaterit's more than good enough for me
21:36:44sandman06AlexP: can high capacity batter be purchased for gig S
21:36:58AlexPsandman06: yep (I have one) :)
21:37:12sandman06how much battery life do you get ?
21:37:25AlexPI think from memory that stock is 700 mAh and I have a 1000 mAh
21:37:48AlexPI haven't measured for ages, but about 10 hrs ish a long time ago, so it may be different now
21:37:53 Quit merbanan (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:38:13sandman06is that stock firmware or rockbox ?
21:38:20AlexPRockbox of course
21:38:34AlexPI've never used the OF except for the install
21:40:51sandman06it so difficult these days to buy a compatible rockbox player
21:40:57sandman06none are in production no more
21:41:08AlexPIt is normally like that
21:41:18AlexPAs ports are very difficult and take a long time
21:41:19 Quit jgarvey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:43:16sandman06does the h140 have optical port
21:43:45sandman06wow i never new that. no wonder alot of people buy it
21:44:03AlexPplayback and recording
21:44:16AlexPer, is that true?
21:44:20AlexPI forget :)
21:45:03AlexPyes, it is true :)
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21:52:11sandman06quick question if i get a iriver iHP-100 model and buy a seperate hard drive
21:52:14sandman06will that work
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21:52:24AlexPIf it is of the correct type
21:52:32AlexPi.e. 1.8" 50 pin PATA
21:52:37AlexPwhich are hard to find
21:52:45sandman06thats the type i need yeah ?
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22:09:02sandman06do h10 have any issues with touch scroll pad ?
22:09:14sandman06or is navigation pretty good
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