| 00:01:01 | JdGordon| | never :) |
| 00:01:06 | JdGordon| | try a second d |
| 00:01:27 | saratoga | !seen blue_Dude |
| 00:01:31 | saratoga | this isn't working |
| 00:03:35 | B4gder | /msg logbot seen blue_dude |
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| 03:12:17 | darkham | please, someone with a 16gb micro sdhc and a fuze |
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| 03:20:27 | saratoga | if you have a question just ask it |
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| 03:30:55 | soap | JdGordon, it would be cool and all - but I'm having a hard time (and you can blame my weak brain) imagining what /useful/ info I could get. |
| 03:33:19 | JdGordon | none outside of debugging |
| 03:33:57 | soap | oh, then we're in total agreement! ;) |
| 03:34:47 | soap | add tags for _every_ variable! |
| 03:35:38 | * | JdGordon has no problems implemenitng *fun* features even if they are totally useless |
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| 04:12:04 | JdGordon | *If* I'm able to make the WPS playlist viewer's text customisable, is there any real reason to use the exsisting wps tags if only a small subset will be supported? |
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| 04:30:50 | * | flyback has fucking had it with 10 yrs of fucking vnc and random fucking pasteFAIL |
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| 05:03:53 | JdGordon | hell yeah! http://imagebin.ca/img/DyqnHRD1.bmp the first 3 lines are coming from the skin engine! |
| 05:04:21 | JdGordon | i.e |%pp.%ia - %it| is in the wps code |
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| 08:41:35 | amiconn | Torne: You will get ACTION_NONE for filtered button events/combos, e.g. with chained contexts. That is expected behaviour. |
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| 09:00 |
| 09:11:53 | CIA-9 | New commit by funman (r24199): Clivp2: Fix typo when applying FS #10047 ... |
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| 09:29:41 | tfx | good morning at all |
| 09:30:14 | tfx | I need some technical / detailed help with the rockbox autmatic installer |
| 09:30:53 | tfx | and report some bugs here, which I can't solve |
| 09:36:05 | tfx | I've read already all the manuals, documents, faqs and open bugs trackers |
| 09:36:53 | Unhelpful | bug reports should go to the bug tracker. what problem are you having with the installer? |
| 09:37:26 | tfx | i'm using the iriver H10 6GB UMS mp3 player and want to install rockbox with the autmatic installer |
| 09:37:51 | tfx | but the automatic installer will not install the bootloader, so I don't know which file I need to use rockbox correctly |
| 09:38:28 | tfx | and even the links to the manuals (pdf, html and downloads) result in "404 file not found" error messages |
| 09:39:12 | tfx | the manuals itself only explain the use of the 20 gb players but not the 5 / 6 gb ones |
| 09:39:31 | Unhelpful | the 5/6GB have their own manual |
| 09:39:39 | Unhelpful | http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-iriverh10/rockbox-build.html |
| 09:40:00 | Unhelpful | or maybe not. both entries link to the same url :/ |
| 09:40:01 | tfx | but the healine said : The Rockbox Manual for Iriver H10 20GB |
| 09:40:06 | tfx | yes indeed |
| 09:40:48 | Unhelpful | what exactly happens when you try to use the installer? |
| 09:41:11 | tfx | it installs all the rockbox files, fonts, themes, |
| 09:41:18 | tfx | whern i want to install the bootloader |
| 09:41:29 | tfx | it renames the original firmware |
| 09:41:37 | | Quit Spaceghost ("güit") |
| 09:41:53 | tfx | but will not download or copy the bootloader to my mp3 player |
| 09:42:31 | tfx | instead the install overwiew said all is done correctly there is no h10.mi4 |
| 09:42:40 | Unhelpful | we appear to have some bootloaders for iriver besides the one linked in the manual: http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/iriver/ |
| 09:42:43 | tfx | inside the system directory listed |
| 09:43:08 | Bagder | http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/iriver/H10.mi4 |
| 09:43:24 | Unhelpful | unfortunately i don't have an iriver myself :/ |
| 09:43:35 | tfx | thanks unhelpful |
| 09:43:43 | tfx | and bagder |
| 09:43:44 | Bagder | that's an uppercase H, I wonder if that's the reason |
| 09:43:54 | tfx | is this the correct bootloader file i need? |
| 09:44:09 | Bagder | yes |
| 09:44:46 | tfx | i don't know the installer said all is done, but perhaps the download links are broken or changed, cause the manuals links are broken too inside the installer |
| 09:45:35 | tfx | i think its the best to create a directory for every mp3 player type and but the bootloader files inside these directories |
| 09:46:00 | tfx | so it's more clearly |
| 09:46:07 | pixelma | the 5/6GB H10s should have their own manual (and once had), because the screen is a different dimension and I believe there are differences in the installation process (because if UMS etc. devices) |
| 09:46:23 | pixelma | I wonder if it has to do with the target rename still |
| 09:46:47 | tfx | I don't know |
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| 09:47:04 | tfx | after i download the file rockbox will launch correctly |
| 09:47:16 | tfx | big thanks |
| 09:47:40 | tfx | now all is fine |
| 09:47:51 | tfx | so you only need to repair the installer |
| 09:48:44 | tfx | and yes I have a different screen resolution |
| 09:49:15 | tfx | but if there are differences in the installation process i don't know |
| 09:49:38 | tfx | i only know there are differences between the ums and mtp devices |
| 09:49:58 | tfx | which were already explained inside the h10 20 gb manual |
| 09:50:05 | Bagder | no, the installation process is the same for them, just different bootloaders |
| 09:50:57 | tfx | so you only need to change / repair the download links to the bootloader entries |
| 09:51:07 | S_a_i_n_t | question: Is it possible to display an image at 'n'% of the currently playing track in a WPS? |
| 09:51:20 | S_a_i_n_t | could %px be used conditionally? |
| 09:51:56 | pixelma | that was more of an internal message. About the difference - I *believe* all big H10s are MTP whereas the small can be MTP or UMS or something like that |
| 09:52:39 | tfx | i only know that the mtp devies will not ship out with the 'plus' software |
| 09:53:12 | tfx | but you could find out your device by watiching the original firmware booting screen |
| 09:54:33 | tfx | the mtp device bootscreen wil display an "pfd initialize" message |
| 09:54:42 | tfx | source: http://www.misticriver.net/wiki/index.php/H10_Firmware_Conversion:_MTP/UMS |
| 09:56:05 | tfx | so thanks again for your help and please make rockbox better ... can't wait for the next release :-) |
| 09:56:11 | tfx | bye |
| 09:56:23 | | Quit tfx ("CGI:IRC") |
| 09:58:01 | S_a_i_n_t | anyone? can the %px tag be used as ( %px?<%xda|%xdb|%xdc| etc.> ) in a WPS? |
| 09:59:29 | pixelma | I'm not sure but if at all then it should be %?px ... doesn't sound like it would make sense to me though |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:35 | S_a_i_n_t | oooops, sorry, typo |
| 10:00:53 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm trying to make a 'progress bar' that'll run backward |
| 10:01:42 | S_a_i_n_t | any suggestions on a better way to do it? |
| 10:02:11 | pixelma | I'd think just %px would do that then |
| 10:04:49 | S_a_i_n_t | I'll try it, thanks. I was looking through all the tags and couldn't find a better way to do it, 'better' being based on %px actually working as I hope, if not then.....? :/ |
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| 12:37:57 | cheszilla | If my ipod 5th gen is flashing 'do not disconnect', is it still safe to rockbox it? |
| 12:45:11 | Torne | ? |
| 12:45:26 | Torne | it always flashes do not disconnect while it's plugged into a host computer, until you eject the device |
| 12:45:37 | cheszilla | i've never had an ipod that did that before. :| |
| 12:45:52 | cheszilla | it just showed the swirling arrows that showed its syncing. |
| 12:46:06 | cheszilla | or an icon with a cable init |
| 12:46:18 | Torne | whenever it's in disk mode it displays the do not disconnect screen.. |
| 12:46:23 | cheszilla | ok |
| 12:48:17 | S_a_i_n_t | ALL my iPods have displayed the 'Do not disconnect' screen when plugged into a host, I've never seen any different. |
| 12:49:12 | cheszilla | I've had a nano before, maybe its just got a slightly different interface |
| 12:49:13 | cheszilla | thanks though |
| 12:49:59 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm talking about a nano as well |
| 12:50:17 | S_a_i_n_t | my 1st and 2nd gens display that screen when plugged in |
| 12:50:55 | cheszilla | my nano displayed this: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2107/2208557358_0aeafba51c.jpg?v=0 |
| 12:51:11 | cheszilla | what I was getting was this: http://www.woodblock.com/diversions/ipod/images/step_12_large.jpg |
| 12:51:24 | Torne | Er, yes, that's the same screen |
| 12:51:27 | Torne | but styled different |
| 12:51:36 | Torne | that says "do not disconnect" in different words :) |
| 12:51:45 | cheszilla | :P thats what I'm saying haha |
| 12:51:49 | S_a_i_n_t | what gen nano is that? |
| 12:51:52 | S_a_i_n_t | 3rd? |
| 12:51:57 | cheszilla | same one as mine, I believe so |
| 12:52:05 | cheszilla | I got mine, may 08? |
| 12:52:11 | Torne | Anyway, yes, all these things mean the same thing |
| 12:52:12 | S_a_i_n_t | not supported by rockbox |
| 12:52:16 | Torne | they mean "don't just yank the cable out" |
| 12:52:26 | Torne | it's nothing special :) |
| 12:52:28 | cheszilla | I know unfortunately, S_a_i_n_t :( |
| 12:52:32 | cheszilla | thanks Torne :) |
| 12:52:49 | S_a_i_n_t | personally, I think the 3rd gen is hideous |
| 12:52:58 | S_a_i_n_t | it kinda broke the nano mould a bit |
| 12:53:13 | cheszilla | indeed |
| 12:53:16 | S_a_i_n_t | 4th gen got it right again |
| 12:53:29 | cheszilla | speaking of ipods, do you know if a rockboxed ipods will still scrobble to last.fm? |
| 12:53:36 | cheszilla | ^ipod |
| 12:53:47 | S_a_i_n_t | 5th carried it on, I like my 5th gen nano, can't wait til I can rockbox that |
| 12:53:56 | S_a_i_n_t | but I might have to :( |
| 12:54:02 | cheszilla | just rockboxed mine |
| 12:54:06 | cheszilla | it looks pretty :) |
| 12:54:28 | S_a_i_n_t | there are settings for scrobbling somewhere |
| 12:54:31 | Torne | cheszilla: there is an option to enable logging of played tracks to a file |
| 12:54:32 | S_a_i_n_t | so I guess so |
| 12:54:36 | S_a_i_n_t | check the manual |
| 12:54:39 | Torne | cheszilla: you then need to use some PC-side or web-based tool to upload the log |
| 12:54:49 | Torne | it's not done automatically by the last.fm player as with the OF |
| 12:54:52 | Torne | but it's not difficult |
| 12:55:05 | cheszilla | ok cheers |
| 12:55:06 | cheszilla | :) |
| 12:55:40 | Torne | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/LastFMLog |
| 12:55:51 | * | S_a_i_n_t has wondered for ages wtf scrobbling was... |
| 12:56:05 | cheszilla | haha |
| 12:56:14 | Torne | i don't think we call it scrobbling in rockbox any more |
| 12:56:16 | * | S_a_i_n_t doesnt 'scrobble' |
| 12:56:37 | Torne | once audioscrobbler stopped existing as a seperate thing it's easier to just talk about last.fm logging |
| 12:56:44 | cheszilla | oooh |
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| 12:57:57 | S_a_i_n_t | what exactly *IS* Last.fm? what does it do? |
| 12:58:31 | Torne | go look on their website. this is offtopic :) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:04 | cheszilla | another question, because I am an idiot at the best of times, what directory do I copy all my music to? |
| 13:00:14 | cheszilla | just the (E:) Ipod? |
| 13:00:18 | Torne | anywhere you like |
| 13:00:26 | cheszilla | cool |
| 13:00:55 | cheszilla | mmm copytime |
| 13:02:34 | cheszilla | thanks for all the help guys. :) |
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| 15:03:48 | CIA-9 | New commit by tomers (r24200): Manual: Add some of the tags that are documented in the Wiki but are missing ... |
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| 15:37:45 | GodEater | interesting |
| 15:38:00 | GodEater | I can see the button to approve account removals from the forums, but I get told to sod off if I push it. |
| 15:44:30 | soap | GodEater, the headphone jack microphone port isn't enabled on the 4th gen iPods? |
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| 15:44:48 | soap | Is /only/ the dock-port line-in hardware enabled across the board? |
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| 15:52:18 | CIA-9 | New commit by mcuelenaere (r24201): Ingenic Jz4740: simplify RTC driver (you will need to re-set the clock) |
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| 16:00:10 | mcuelenaere | hmm Rockbox's alarm feature only supports setting hour/minute? |
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| 16:03:02 | Torne | is it likely to cause horrible user confusion if the in-game menu in frotz is only available some of the time? |
| 16:03:29 | Torne | it's not very easy to get [more] prompts to behave the same as the actual game prompt with respect to the menu options |
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| 16:27:12 | GodEater | soap: as far as I know only the 3rd gen ipod had that microphone feature in the headphone port |
| 16:28:55 | soap | http://ipodlinux.org/wiki/Recording |
| 16:29:06 | soap | one of their poorer documents, but. |
| 16:32:57 | GodEater | interesting |
| 16:33:04 | GodEater | I really thought it was just the 3G |
| 16:33:13 | GodEater | I could have sworn I've seen linuxstb tell people that too |
| 16:37:13 | soap | _Rockbox_ may not support it on the 4G - it is that point I was unsure of. |
| 16:40:11 | GodEater | I've no idea to be honest |
| 16:40:34 | GodEater | it seems the thread I recall was about a nano |
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| 16:54:24 | | Nick YPSY is now known as Ypsy (n=ypsy@geekpadawan.de) |
| 16:59:38 | soap | yes, there is that infamous thread where someone pumped heavily amplified audio (guitar IIRC) into their Nano and was trying to convince everyone else they had found the magic solution to recording on the Nano/5G. |
| 17:00 |
| 17:01:01 | GodEater | that's the one |
| 17:01:02 | GodEater | :) |
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| 17:17:16 | enthdegree | Is there any way to change the statusbar icons? |
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| 17:32:14 | domonoky | enthdegree: yes, the the statusbar is now completly themeable. |
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| 17:41:38 | CIA-9 | New commit by kugel (r24202): Sansa e200v2/Fuze: Optimize YUV blitting by writing 2 pixel at once to the DBOP and removing a few unneeded busy polling status register for fifo ... |
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| 18:15:21 | enthdegree | How wyoud I go to do it? |
| 18:15:47 | enthdegree | Er, I'd like to set my WPS icons to my statusbar icons, is that easily doable? |
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| 19:18:22 | kugel | ui vp feature seems broken |
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| 19:33:57 | kugel | also, data abort in pictureflow if the statusbar is disabled |
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| 20:19:08 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: does the apps/ layer have any way to know which disk is active? |
| 20:19:19 | JdGordon| | like for the wps "disk active" tag |
| 20:27:32 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: I don't think so |
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| 21:18:26 | Torne | does anyone have an opinion on me just committing the FS #10107 ipod startup workaround now, so that it's in 3.5, for all models with the relevant power management unit? |
| 21:18:41 | Torne | the poll shows that it happens on most of those models at least |
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| 21:24:03 | gevaerts | Torne: if the risk of seriously breaking things is reasonably small, go for it |
| 21:25:41 | AlexP | I obviously can't comment on the code, from the other points of view I say go for it |
| 21:25:53 | Torne | a related question is should we document the weird cosmetic behaviour that results somewhere |
| 21:26:00 | | Quit Xerion (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:26:09 | Torne | with the workaround, on poweroff the screen flashes up the "dead battery" symbol with the backlight off, which then fades slowly |
| 21:26:24 | Torne | it's not super obvious but you can see iit if you look |
| 21:26:34 | Torne | and you can't power back on immediately, it doesn't listen for a few seconds |
| 21:26:38 | AlexP | Maybe a note in the manual if you can find a good place? Probably at the same place as we tell how to turn off |
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| 21:29:09 | pamaury | gevaerts: what do we do with the leaked file handles in plugins ? Do we put a splash ? Do we keep only the logf ? Do we do more ? (that would mean more code and more space usage) |
| 21:30:29 | gevaerts | pamaury: My recent thoughts were to enable this for debug builds and panic |
| 21:31:47 | JdGordon| | pamaury: if its a real problem we could have a step between the pluygins and the real open/close calls to keep track of them and release and leaked handles when the plugin exits |
| 21:32:56 | pamaury | My question is two fold: first, do we want this autoclose feature in all builds ? second, what do we do to inform the user (it can be silent for usual builds and panic for debug) |
| 21:33:00 | pamaury | ? |
| 21:33:26 | pamaury | But who uses debug builds ? (real question) |
| 21:33:40 | gevaerts | we know leaked filehandles are not a very serious problem today |
| 21:34:06 | pamaury | indeed (in plugins) |
| 21:35:22 | pamaury | So silent handling and panic for debug ? That's ok for me. I'll write this based on your patch, I think it's useful to keep the logf |
| 21:35:35 | gevaerts | Always adding it somewhat gives the signal that leaking filehandles is OK |
| 21:35:41 | gevaerts | I'm not sure if we want that |
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| 21:37:38 | pamaury | So we should signal it to the user. I feel it's better to inform the user to fix the problem later |
| 21:38:17 | pamaury | But the only "free" way to do this seem to be splashf to me. logf is silent, panic is too violent |
| 21:38:29 | gevaerts | splashf will be confusing |
| 21:38:57 | gevaerts | which is why I'm not convinced we want this |
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| 21:41:38 | pamaury | but designing a whole screen for that is overhead |
| 21:41:50 | | Quit Sajber^ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:42:38 | gevaerts | no, I mean that just telling *every* user that something is wrong will confuse lots of people. This is something for developers |
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| 21:43:10 | pamaury | But the very nature of the leaked file handle makes it impossible to report it without being obscure |
| 21:43:11 | JdGordon| | which goes to the argument of why the heck the debug menu is in user builds... |
| 21:43:23 | bertrik | but we do want people to report leaked file handles, right? |
| 21:44:02 | pamaury | If the device say: "report <technical thing> to RB team" then the user don't have to understand it. |
| 21:44:06 | pamaury | *s |
| 21:44:46 | pamaury | It's the same in pc software: the application crash, you send a bug report but here it's more difficult. |
| 21:44:50 | | Nick knine is now known as kaniini (n=kaniini6@dyn75-70.yok.fi) |
| 21:45:04 | pamaury | Or we can write a "bug report" to a file and tell the user to report it |
| 21:45:44 | pamaury | what do you think ? |
| 21:45:45 | gevaerts | pamaury: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20100108#12:37:57 . How will those users respond to any sort of splash telling them that something is wrong? |
| 21:47:49 | pamaury | arf, users can be *stupid* sometimes |
| 21:49:37 | bertrik | I do like the idea of writing a bug report, preferably in some kind of standard format, and have support in rbutil to report it back somehow |
| 21:50:23 | gevaerts | that could work |
| 21:51:00 | pamaury | I also think it could be a good solution. Just tell the user that a problem arised and to plug the device and run rbutil |
| 21:51:48 | JdGordon| | wouldnt it be better to just make sure to close the files? |
| 21:51:55 | bertrik | now we just need a volunteer to sift through automatically generated bug reports ... :) |
| 21:52:07 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: yes |
| 21:52:17 | bertrik | JdGordon, the ideal solution would be to fix the plugins |
| 21:52:55 | pamaury | Yes but how can you know there is a problem if you don't report it ;) |
| 21:52:55 | gevaerts | Which is why I still think that we should only bother people if they run a debug build, or possibly a special testing build |
| 21:54:25 | bertrik | the last time I tried a debug build, it didn't even compile... I guess basically nobody runs debug builds |
| 21:55:58 | pamaury | Debug builds are no used. But why not a special testing build. Could be useful for testers and during RC. |
| 21:56:37 | bertrik | What would be the difference between debug builds and testing builds? |
| 21:57:08 | pamaury | debug menu and this ? ;) |
| 21:57:09 | bertrik | I mean, we now already have debug builds that nobody runs, why add yet another class of builds? |
| 21:57:32 | JdGordon| | pamaury: my feeling is that non release builds should have this debug info and the debug menu, release builds shuold have neither |
| 21:57:53 | pamaury | I agree |
| 21:57:53 | * | gevaerts agrees with JdGordon| |
| 21:58:23 | gevaerts | and RC builds have neither as well. If they're too different from release builds, they can't really be used as release candidate |
| 21:59:01 | pamaury | Ok. How do you differentiate between release and non release builds ? Is there a define or something ? |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:47 | gevaerts | Make a HAVE_* define for the feature, and document it enough (maybe on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ReleaseChecklist?) |
| 22:01:35 | JdGordon| | theres a patch for that |
| 22:02:33 | pamaury | for what ? |
| 22:02:39 | JdGordon| | well, I started a script to do the release builds which set the version string and a #define which would be used if #ifdef out the debug menu |
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| 22:03:07 | JdGordon| | I stopped when it accidently nuked my rockbox tree |
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| 22:03:51 | Torne | hehe |
| 22:03:53 | pamaury | lol |
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| 22:08:14 | pamaury | gevaerts: if we have a HAVE_* flag, then it mean that it should be set except for release builds. So I should set it in config.h ? |
| 22:08:31 | gevaerts | yes, probably with plenty of comments |
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| 22:12:47 | JdGordon| | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10278 is how i did it |
| 22:13:03 | pamaury | gevaerts: in you're patch, why use an open wrapper when it's disabled ? You can skip it and call open directly |
| 22:13:51 | pamaury | *your |
| 22:14:52 | gevaerts | pamaury: mainly because that patch wasn't done with disabling in mind |
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| 22:15:36 | pamaury | ok |
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| 22:40:19 | mcuelenaere | hmm would anyone know how to debug a serial/uart signal? (am using a bus pirate as ttl->usb converter) |
| 22:40:42 | bertrik | mcuelenaere, look at it using an oscilloscope ... |
| 22:41:10 | mcuelenaere | I don't have an oscilloscope |
| 22:43:52 | bertrik | maybe you can couple the signal into your soundcard using by reducing the voltage a bit with some resistors and a capacitor to block DC |
| 22:45:00 | pamaury | gevaerts: I'm not satisfied with splash, what do you think about it ? If the timeout is too small it's easy to miss it but if it's too big it's annoying. I would prefer a screen where do press select but I don't know how to do it :( |
| 22:45:49 | JdGordon| | use the yesno screen "widget" then |
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| 22:46:31 | pamaury | but yesno but yesyes is a bit clumsy ;) |
| 22:46:46 | pamaury | *but->for |
| 22:47:10 | mcuelenaere | perhaps I should look into the bus pirate's logic analyzer's mode |
| 22:47:14 | pamaury | But that would work. |
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| 22:48:45 | bertrik | I've successfully used the trick with the sound card as a kind of poor-man's-oscilloscope to figure out protocols on 433 MHz gadgets |
| 22:50:34 | JdGordon| | pamaury: IIRC you can set the test to anything |
| 22:51:07 | JdGordon| | that screen just provides a relativly simple api to dump so text |
| 22:51:23 | mcuelenaere | bertrik: the problem is I don't have any resistors nor capacitors |
| 22:51:55 | pamaury | JdGordon: What do you mean ? It will always provide a yes/no option. Of course, you're free to ignore the result. I am wrong ? |
| 22:53:07 | JdGordon| | hmm.. you may be right |
| 22:55:08 | pamaury | It's not a problem, it thought to yesno screen immediately and because it's would be for non-release built, it's not a problem but still I asked the question. |
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| 22:55:54 | pamaury | gevaerts: what message should I provide to the user ? (I guess it should be localized ?) |
| 23:00 |
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| 23:08:17 | * | JdGordon| *really really* wants a "repeat action" item in the file browser context menu |
| 23:08:25 | JdGordon| | deleting 15 songs is painful |
| 23:09:12 | AlexP | you mean to be able to multi-select? That'd be very nice |
| 23:09:27 | JdGordon| | same outcome, but done differently |
| 23:09:57 | pamaury | what would "repeat action" mean ? RB can't decide which item to delete in the folder |
| 23:10:08 | pamaury | But multi-select would be great, sure |
| 23:10:09 | JdGordon| | the context menu would remember the last thing you did (delete/ playlist insert/ etc) and you'd then be able to just chose the "repeat" item to do it |
| 23:10:33 | amiconn | How would that help? |
| 23:10:33 | JdGordon| | but yes, multiselect would be in every way better |
| 23:11:20 | bertrik | or you could have the context menu automatically select the last used action |
| 23:11:27 | amiconn | 'Delete' would still have to present its confimation screen |
| 23:11:30 | | Quit Spaceg (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:11:31 | pamaury | I don't like the idea of "repeat action", how it can be better that multi-select ? |
| 23:11:35 | JdGordon| | on targets with a spare button it would be one click |
| 23:11:46 | pamaury | *than |
| 23:12:02 | JdGordon| | its not better, multiselect just involves alot more work to implement |
| 23:12:15 | | Join Spaceghost [0] (i=opera@unaffiliated/spaceghost) |
| 23:12:16 | bertrik | you could just use MSC for mass deletions |
| 23:12:16 | pamaury | Clearly |
| 23:12:45 | JdGordon| | not without a cable :) |
| 23:12:50 | JdGordon| | and delete was just an example |
| 23:12:59 | AlexP | bertrik: Obviously, but if you follow that logic why do we have cut/copy/delete etc at all |
| 23:13:23 | bertrik | AlexP, for small numbers of cut/copy/delete |
| 23:13:37 | pamaury | yes but even a few is a pain |
| 23:13:45 | AlexP | without being able to multi-select small numbers = 1 |
| 23:13:56 | AlexP | without being a complete pain in the arse |
| 23:14:05 | bertrik | I disagree |
| 23:14:26 | | Quit Xerion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:15:02 | pamaury | But multi-select would be problematic also because how can you differentiage between context-menu and multi-select ? |
| 23:15:37 | pamaury | (or add select options to context-menu) |
| 23:15:49 | bertrik | pamaury, those could be different buttons (or button combinations) |
| 23:15:59 | AlexP | yeah, interface is problemativc |
| 23:16:10 | pamaury | On some target, there are no free buttons |
| 23:16:25 | Llorean | I'd say for multi-select just make it the first option in the context menu |
| 23:16:37 | Llorean | So hold, tap, highlight next, hold, tap, highlight next, hold, tep |
| 23:16:39 | Llorean | tap |
| 23:16:49 | Llorean | Not much worse than just long-select for it. |
| 23:17:04 | bertrik | that would take about the same time as just deleting them one by one in the first place, I think |
| 23:17:08 | Llorean | Not really |
| 23:17:10 | AlexP | nope |
| 23:17:15 | amiconn | Well we could have a select mode (indicated by a special cursor or similar) |
| 23:17:16 | JdGordon| | na, the first option would be "start multi select", then tap tap tap then long press to get the options |
| 23:17:20 | Llorean | You get the confirm each time I think. As well, you have to scroll in the context menu each time |
| 23:17:22 | AlexP | more presses down, a confirm dialogue for each file |
| 23:17:33 | pamaury | For copy/cut, it's a use time saver |
| 23:17:35 | Llorean | And multi-select isn't just for delete (it could also do cut, copy, insert, etc) |
| 23:17:39 | AlexP | And cut/paste is even worse than delete |
| 23:17:41 | pamaury | *huge |
| 23:18:01 | * | Llorean would rather be able to just multi-select via context menu than having to choose "start multi select" each time |
| 23:18:22 | JdGordon| | it would be less presses for you |
| 23:18:31 | JdGordon| | start would obviously select the current item also |
| 23:18:31 | | Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) |
| 23:18:49 | Llorean | I would say "start" *shouldn't* select the current item if it's going to be that way |
| 23:18:58 | JdGordon| | this is all silly talk though because multiselect is a huge amount of work |
| 23:19:01 | pamaury | I would prefer a "select this file" item as well as a "select all in directory" and "unselect all" |
| 23:19:01 | Llorean | It doesn't say it does, so it'd surprise people |
| 23:19:40 | JdGordon| | ok, so its still less presses than your suggestion |
| 23:19:48 | pamaury | JdGordon|: we are free to dream of features ;) |
| 23:19:52 | JdGordon| | in total you need 2 long presses |
| 23:20:05 | * | amiconn wonders how huge the necessary work would actually be |
| 23:20:22 | JdGordon| | huge being non-trivial :) |
| 23:20:49 | JdGordon| | at a minimum its figuring out how to store the selections, and then make every item support it |
| 23:21:00 | bertrik | on some of the targets I have, right and select currently do the same (activate the current item). Could we use select to select a list item and right to activate it? |
| 23:21:17 | JdGordon| | thats another posibility |
| 23:21:23 | Llorean | Also deciding when to "reset" selection is important, since a user may not be looking at the folder(s) where old selected files are. |
| 23:21:24 | pamaury | Basically keep a list of selected file and for each context menu action, handle multi-file case. For most it's a natural extension, just do it for each file. |
| 23:21:27 | JdGordon| | thats actually very logical :) |
| 23:21:57 | JdGordon| | Llorean: you wouldnt be able to select outside of the current list |
| 23:22:09 | JdGordon| | list being folder in the browers case |
| 23:22:22 | amiconn | The file browser already has a list of the directory contents. How hard would it be to add a 'selected' flag? |
| 23:22:59 | JdGordon| | amiconn: that would be dangerous wouldn't it? updating the dircache entries |
| 23:23:08 | * | JdGordon| would want the selection stored with the llistview somehow |
| 23:23:12 | amiconn | I'm not talking about dircache |
| 23:23:26 | amiconn | That doesn't even exist on lowmem targets |
| 23:23:35 | | Join togetic [0] (n=togetic@unaffiliated/ibuffy) |
| 23:23:36 | JdGordon| | I know |
| 23:23:50 | JdGordon| | the layer underneath the file browsers list |
| 23:23:55 | amiconn | yes |
| 23:23:58 | Llorean | JdGordon|: I don't really like that, but it would simplify things since you'd never have selected things out of easy visual range. |
| 23:24:23 | | Part Llorean |
| 23:24:27 | amiconn | That layer already stores various information about the files, e.g. whether an associated .talk clip exists |
| 23:24:36 | JdGordon| | which is all static |
| 23:24:48 | amiconn | I mean information that's *not* directly coming from the directory entry for that file |
| 23:25:57 | pamaury | Having a more powerful listview which allow some items to be selected (to have graphical feedback) seems natural to me because you're limited to a directory. Even though I don't know how all this work |
| 23:26:08 | amiconn | Well, the list changes anyway when changing directory, so it's not really static |
| 23:26:40 | JdGordon| | even if that could be done cleanly, I stil think the selection should be stored with the list and not the contents |
| 23:26:45 | JdGordon| | makes it more generic |
| 23:27:32 | JdGordon| | something like just setting a small buffer on the list struct to use |
| 23:28:12 | JdGordon| | or at worst, using a callback ( :( more callbacks on the list widget_ |
| 23:28:14 | * | amiconn prefers the KISS approach |
| 23:28:54 | JdGordon| | the file browser is not the only list which would use this if it were avilable |
| 23:29:21 | amiconn | If it were available generically, yes |
| 23:30:02 | Spaceghost | someone knows if exist another accesoy similar to the Nike and Ipod for run? |
| 23:30:11 | amiconn | But the file browser is probably the list where it would help the most, and since it already has a variable-sized list, it would probably be easier to implement it there |
| 23:31:04 | * | JdGordon| back in 30 |
| 23:31:10 | | Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 23:31:30 | Spaceghost | that accesory is support on rockbox? have a bluetooth conection? maybe that will be interested? |
| 23:33:21 | | Quit Spaceghost (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:37:20 | | Join Spaceghost [0] (i=quassel@unaffiliated/spaceghost) |
| 23:38:58 | evilnick | Spaceghost: There's no bluetooth support within RB currently |
| 23:39:26 | AlexP | There aren't any targets with bluetooth either |
| 23:39:33 | AlexP | To the best of my knowledge |
| 23:40:36 | pamaury | There are some targets with wifi, no ? That's strange there aren't any with bluetooth |
| 23:40:46 | AlexP | pamaury: Are there? |
| 23:41:00 | AlexP | I can't think of any with wifi |
| 23:41:17 | pamaury | Perhaps not any supported one, you're right ;) |
| 23:41:39 | Spaceghost | I am talking about the accesory |
| 23:41:47 | Spaceghost | Nike + iPod Sports |
| 23:42:08 | Spaceghost | did you head about something similar without need a ipod? |
| 23:42:28 | AlexP | No |
| 23:42:43 | AlexP | And as evilnick says, there is no bluetooth support in Rockbox |
| 23:42:47 | Spaceghost | if I use that, I only can use with the ipod firmware true? |
| 23:42:52 | Spaceghost | not with rockbox |
| 23:42:54 | AlexP | I would say so |
| 23:43:04 | AlexP | Good job you can dual boot :) |
| 23:44:03 | Spaceghost | but the storage is limited, exist the possibility of using the database of ipod on rockbox? |
| 23:44:14 | Spaceghost | I heard in FAQs that that is difficult |
| 23:44:19 | AlexP | no, but Rockbox will build its own database if you want |
| 23:44:22 | Spaceghost | but may be I can? |
| 23:44:27 | AlexP | From the tags on your music |
| 23:44:48 | AlexP | You cannot use the itunes database, but you can use the Rockbox database with the songs transferred with itunes |
| 23:44:52 | Spaceghost | but you understand me? for example |
| 23:45:11 | Spaceghost | I have a ipod nano of 2G of 2gb, the storage is limited |
| 23:45:19 | AlexP | yes, I understand you |
| 23:45:22 | * | pamaury wonders how many people actually use this nike+ iPod thing |
| 23:45:50 | | Quit Lss (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:46:04 | Spaceghost | and I would like heard the songs in the two firmwares (because when I need use the nike accesory I need apple firmware) |
| 23:46:08 | Spaceghost | can I do that? |
| 23:46:12 | AlexP | Yes, as I said |
| 23:46:17 | AlexP | You cannot use the itunes database, but you can use the Rockbox database with the songs transferred with itunes |
| 23:46:30 | Spaceghost | ahh |
| 23:46:32 | Spaceghost | great |
| 23:46:37 | pamaury | Spaceghost: there are two distincts things: the files and the database. The files are present on the disk whathever the firmware is. The database is something the firmware to use to gather information about music and it's relatively small. |
| 23:46:39 | Spaceghost | sorry |
| 23:46:51 | AlexP | Spaceghost: No problem :) |
| 23:46:55 | Spaceghost | now I understand you |
| 23:47:14 | AlexP | No worries, it is somewhat confusing |
| 23:47:22 | AlexP | Too many uses of the same words :) |
| 23:48:14 | * | pamaury wonders how many stupid-things-like-the-nike+-ipod-kit the iPod Touch/3GS/... supports ! There are as useless as the pictureflow plugin ;) |
| 23:48:15 | Spaceghost | so, that is, I will share the files but not the database. "Songs continue with the names assigned to them encrypted iTunes? |
| 23:48:37 | AlexP | Spaceghost: DRM encrypted songs won't work in Rockbox |
| 23:49:01 | AlexP | Spaceghost: And the "names" the songs have in Rockbox comes from the tags (e.g. ID3 tags for MP3) |
| 23:49:10 | Spaceghost | I amn not talking about that |
| 23:49:31 | AlexP | Spaceghost: I don't understand the "encrypted iTunes" then |
| 23:50:06 | GodEater | he means the obfuscated names |
| 23:50:07 | Spaceghost | when I read the ipod in the computer, (as a external hard disk) I only see folders, and songs |
| 23:50:11 | AlexP | ah right |
| 23:50:13 | Spaceghost | yes, that! |
| 23:50:24 | GodEater | yes, the names will remain obfuscated on disk |
| 23:50:29 | GodEater | but playback isn't affected |
| 23:50:36 | AlexP | Spaceghost: No problem, the Rockbox database uses the tags on your files, not the file names |
| 23:50:50 | GodEater | the only real problem it presents is playlists |
| 23:50:54 | pamaury | The tag are not obfuscated but the names are ? That's trange |
| 23:51:03 | pamaury | *strange |
| 23:51:12 | AlexP | pamaury: They are just standard files that have been renamed |
| 23:51:22 | Spaceghost | but the songs will continue "obfuscated"? |
| 23:51:36 | pamaury | Yes but why rename them ? And they are renamed to what ? "music-0001" ? |
| 23:51:42 | AlexP | Spaceghost: The filenames, yes but the Rockbox database uses the tags, not the filenames |
| 23:51:56 | AlexP | pamaury: They are also put in weird folders |
| 23:52:03 | AlexP | and renamed to eg HFGS |
| 23:52:10 | GodEater | pamaury: it achieves a couple of things |
| 23:52:20 | GodEater | it keeps the path length to one fixed value for the itunes database |
| 23:52:36 | GodEater | and it makes getting your music off your ipod and giving it to your friends a bit trickier |
| 23:52:41 | Spaceghost | yes, but I would like to know if I can that the songs will with her reals name, and continuos reading by the ipod firmware |
| 23:52:48 | AlexP | no |
| 23:52:50 | GodEater | no you can't Spaceghost |
| 23:52:51 | Spaceghost | I think that is not possible, true? |
| 23:52:53 | Spaceghost | ok |
| 23:52:54 | GodEater | you used to be able to |
| 23:52:57 | AlexP | yes, it is not possible |
| 23:53:09 | AlexP | itunes/the ipod apple firmware doesn't let you |
| 23:53:09 | GodEater | but apple stopped their firmware reading files anywhere outside the ipod_control folder |
| 23:53:16 | GodEater | and with files names over 4 characters in length |
| 23:53:17 | AlexP | Rockbox doesn't care |
| 23:54:02 | pamaury | You can put music with iTunes and read it with rockbox but you can't put music as external hdd and read it with apple firmware. I am correct ? |
| 23:54:18 | AlexP | external hdd? |
| 23:54:44 | * | GodEater is confused too now |
| 23:54:57 | pamaury | You can plug a device and browse is as a mass storage device no ? |
| 23:55:05 | AlexP | To an ipod? |
| 23:55:08 | | Quit balug ("Ex-Chat") |
| 23:55:14 | GodEater | all ipods we run on present as mass storage... |
| 23:55:18 | Spaceghost | because may be I can find that practice for heard in the dvd-hometheater, for that I have asked |
| 23:55:34 | AlexP | Spaceghost: Sorry, I didn't understand that |
| 23:55:39 | GodEater | Spaceghost: sorry, your translation software made a mess of that |
| 23:56:19 | Spaceghost | yes, sorry my english is bad, I don't use a translation software anyway |
| 23:56:39 | | Join grant___ [0] (i=d83bfaa4@gateway/web/freenode/x-mgmktyyhhatnqkmg) |
| 23:56:42 | GodEater | ah sorry - I was just guessing :(# |
| 23:56:58 | pamaury | Spaceghost: which language(s) do you talk ? Perhaps someone can translate (we never know) ? |
| 23:57:00 | Spaceghost | may will be better to do |
| 23:57:05 | Spaceghost | spanish |
| 23:57:23 | GodEater | pamaury: in private messages only please - we keep the channel to english |
| 23:57:41 | grant___ | u could use google translate |
| 23:58:04 | pamaury | I don't really speak spanish anyway, I would be ridiculous ;) |
| 23:58:22 | grant___ | btw ive got a bug for the ipod nano 2nd gen |
| 23:58:34 | grant___ | my stereo channels will randomly swap |
| 23:58:41 | pamaury | I don't think google translate output will be readable english, will it be ? |
| 23:58:42 | GodEater | grant___: yes, this is a known issue |
| 23:58:46 | AlexP | grant___: That's known |
| 23:58:49 | grant___ | kk |
| 23:58:51 | GodEater | pamaury: it might do ;) |
| 23:58:53 | AlexP | grant___: And is on flyspray |
| 23:58:58 | grant___ | sry |
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