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#rockbox log for 2010-01-15

00:00:46 Nick froggyman| is now known as froggyman (
00:01:00kugelnot directly, I believe. we can profile codecs (and plugins IIUC, but I couldn't it to work), so you'd need to build it into a plugin
00:01:16 Nick froggyman is now known as Guest51752 (
00:01:26 Nick Guest51752 is now known as froggyman| (
00:01:52JdGordon|if it gets down to saving a few instructinos is actually important, then those macros really are wasteful :)
00:02:19kugelyou can get the call count easily, but I don't know how easy "time spend in it" is
00:02:39JdGordon|can we get finer grained than useing the tick?
00:03:11kugelI once hacked together instrumenting a core file though, maybe it is possible
00:04:34kugelI don't know if any of our target CPUs have performance counters; but maybe the USEC_TIMER on pp could be used
00:05:35JdGordon|its known that you get better battery life if you sit in the menu instead of the wps yeah?
00:06:14kugelalso, disable refreshing without backlight gave an extra 1h on the e200
00:06:39 Join fdinel [0] (
00:06:40JdGordon|so it is actually worth putting some time into the displayer
00:07:31JdGordon|you can read arm yeah? can you have a look at the .o and see what gcc turns that switch into?
00:08:09kugelI could have a look, although i don't have the .o handy (and I'm in windows atm)
00:08:39JdGordon|one thing we could do is add another enum to the table at the top of parser.c which says which get_token() function to call for that token
00:08:55JdGordon|then we could split them up without wasting time going into extra functions
00:09:19JdGordon|maybe even use the flags member for this
00:09:36kugelexcept that easily 3x or 4x the number of branches needed (multiple switches, function call overhead)
00:10:00kugelalso, I doubt that gcc makes jump tables for small switches
00:10:53JdGordon|ok, but doing this means that even if it does a very long if/elseif block it might be half a dozen in each function which isnt terrible
00:11:07 Join nimak_ [0] (
00:12:07JdGordon|there is probably gains to be had by getting rid of the line text alignemtn support
00:12:14*kugel doesn't dare to estimate that on a function that's called so often
00:12:16JdGordon|%al%ac%ar all in one line
00:12:53JdGordon|I know thats not something that's liekly to happen
00:13:15kugelbut yea, the non-switch part of get_token_value() probably consumes a lot more cpu time
00:21:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:35:09kugel_JdGordon|: what I expected, I could identify the jump table
00:35:53kugel_it contains a lot jumps to the default case, so reordering (so that they match the enum order) could save some bytes
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00:41:00JdGordon|kugel_: I dont care about binary size, I care about speed
00:41:14JdGordon|and flexibility, which admitedly dont go hand in hand
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01:29:38 Nick rhodan_ is now known as rhodan (
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01:48:53JdGordon|does the tick count on the sim have *any* bareing on real life at all?
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02:06:47 Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
02:07:39kugelJdGordon: are you trying to profile that?
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02:21:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:21:12JdGordon1apparently not... 5 ticks to do a skin redraw?
02:21:32JdGordon1getting logging going on the target is going to be annoying
02:23:53kugelx86 has a performance counter afaik
02:26:13kugelI don't know a trick to compile single files with -finstrument-functions, I just enabled it after everything was compiled and then it was only activated for the files recompiled
02:26:59CIA-9New commit by jdgordon (r24229): outright reject any tags which need a special parser in the wps playlist viewer. There is no intention of even trying to support them and without this ...
02:27:43kugelif you have that, you only need to provide 2 functions that are called on every function entry and exit, you'd only need to count something that has a high enough resolution between the calls of them
02:28:16JdGordon1x86 perf doesnt really mean much here.. ill figure out how to log on my mini, and yeah thats pretty much what im doing
02:28:55JdGordon1or see how many ticks it takes to call get_token() 10000 times or something
02:29:06JdGordon1after fiddling to break the jumptable
02:31:54*JdGordon1 guesses it wont make very much difference at all
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02:40:00kugelon the mini you're better of counting USEC_TIMER probably
02:47:26JdGordon190% or so of tokens go through 2 swicth cases in svn!
02:47:32JdGordon1get_line() does it also
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03:03:36liarjho: can you please try my latest nand patch? i hope this is the last change now..
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03:13:51 Quit nimak_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:14:44webguest50hi, can anybody tell me which ID3 tag[s] are supported by the database for user rating?
03:15:47webguest50[i've searched the forums and wiki and the database wiki page doesn't seem to specify - all it mentions is "rating" and I've tried that]
03:15:59*webguest50 wonders why he can't type normal braces
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03:21:06JdGordonthe user rating doesnt work with id3, its a seperate system
03:22:44webguest50thanks, how does one go about adding a rating to a file then?
03:23:55webguest50is the rating stored in runtime data? if so, is there a menu entry somewhere I am missing which allows you to set it? I see nothing on the quickscreen
03:24:35evilnickYou have to enable the runtime data first
03:25:44webguest50ahhh - just noticed it. thanks. "Set song rating." so, I presume there is no way to export that data?
03:26:47evilnickwebguest50: Rating The menu entry is only shown if Gather Runtime Information is enabled. It allows the asignment of a personal rating value (0 – 10) to a track which can be displayed in the WPS and used in the Database browser. The value wraps at 10.
03:28:03evilnickThere's another option to export the modifications
03:28:17evilnickWhich will be the ratings that the user has assigned
03:28:27evilnick& playcounts
03:28:41webguest50oh, so i could write a script to parse the ascii exported runtime data and add it to the ID3 tags of MP3s
03:29:16webguest50where did you copy that from by the way? I couldn't find that in the wiki
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03:30:06evilnickOur Fine Manual :)
03:31:08*webguest50 crawls into a corner
03:31:19evilnickI'd recommend starting with the manual and if that doesn't answer any questions THEN go to the wiki/forums/IRC
03:31:32*evilnick pulls webguest50 back out of the corner and dusts him off
03:32:39webguest50to half-excuse me, there isn't a manual for the D2 yet, but still I should've checked one of the others
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03:33:29webguest50anyways, thanks. I'll go check out the format of the exported runtime data and see if I can write a script to generate an "importable ratings file" from the ID3 tags of one's library
03:35:05evilnickNo problem, and any tool like that would be a useful addition to the wiki too :)
03:35:51webguest50true, since it's a feature request. possibly speak later with a real irc client. kthxbye
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05:19:33JdGordonWTF? who plays with themeing?
05:19:53JdGordon%s on a line with conditionals... does it work?
05:32:01JdGordonrasher: scorche: ping?
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06:04:03JdGordonwhat does "avg" stand for with VBR files?
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06:07:59sparkeatersomeone is using my registered nick
06:08:39sparkeaterI registered on the forums and someone has every variant of my nick on this irc server
06:09:25sparkeaterbut a relevant question to this channel... when is the next release expected? someone said christmas (last year) last time I asked
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06:16:43 Join tomers [0] (
06:16:46tomersany developer around?
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06:18:02tomersJdGordon: Any suggestion regarding
06:18:25JdGordononly that you use should pluginlib actions
06:18:33JdGordonotherwise i didnt look at the code too much
06:18:35tomersI would like to commit it soon. BTW I have a newer version which I'm about to port there
06:18:53JdGordonits very unlikely that you'll get a review for plugins
06:19:08JdGordon(which also does mean that arguments might come up like it did with the clock a while ago :p )
06:19:17tomersJdGordon: That is outside of the scope of this patch. The mandelbrot plugin did not use pluginlib
06:19:44tomersJdGordon: I don't remember the clock stuff. What was the issue?
06:20:00JdGordonit was completly changed :)
06:20:05tomersJdGordon: I guess I'll just commit...
06:20:44tomersI've really enhanced the usability of that plugin. I didn't change any of its original behavior, I think
06:21:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:21:24tomersCan you just review the filenames I used? I'm not sure their are appropriately named
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06:24:17sparkeaterdoes anyone have any idea when the next "stable" release is due?
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06:25:56tomerssparkeater: I personally really confused about it. It was delayed, but not canceled
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06:44:24JdGordonsparkeater: probably 3 months
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06:53:18CIA-9New commit by tomers (r24230): FS #10911 - Plugins: Fractals (formerly Mandelbrot) ...
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07:00:54 Quit pjm0616 ()
07:10:14*tomers Fixing reds
07:17:59CIA-9New commit by tomers (r24231): Fractals: Fix red ...
07:18:30pixelmaI don't think pluginlib action will work well with mandelbrot as there are not only keys for directional movement but also for zooming in and out and increasing/decreasing precision.
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07:19:18pixelmaI guess you'll also have a hard time finding another key to switch to different sets or a menu key on all targets
07:20:09tomerspixelma: I personally dislike pluginlib :-)
07:21:46tomerspixelma: Switching different sets could be implemented with some sort of key combination (I guess). It isn't a common key combination anyway. Also, we can have it set by a menu, which this plugin might have
07:22:09pixelmaand I wonder if more sets are possible on lowmem targets withou grabbing audio buffer
07:23:06tomerspixelma: It only hold a buffer of size LCD_HEIGHT and paints row by row, using the same buffer, at least in the mandelbrot set...
07:23:42tomersI tried to have this buffer common, outside mandelbrot_set.c, so it could use by future plugins, but it created reds, and I don't want to mess with it now
07:23:58*tomers What?!
07:24:19pixelmatomers: not all targets can have key combos, but maybe you can use the quit button for a menu although I also like a simple way to quit
07:24:44tomerspixelma: Maybe a menu in the plugins start... bummer
07:26:35CIA-9New commit by tomers (r24232): Mandelbrot: Another try at fixing reds ...
07:27:19tomersI've had used the wrong local compilation, that's why I missed this reds
07:47:28*tomers Really got to go. Will fix yellows in few hours
07:47:31*tomers from now
07:48:54JdGordonyou really shouldnt leave it in a non green state... people wont like that
07:52:38GodEateryeah, that's not good form
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08:16:15*GodEater wonders why only those 2 targets have that warning
08:17:50JdGordonthey are special :p
08:19:38JdGordonthey actually are :) is the m3's remote screen handled the same as other targets main screen?
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08:20:59CIA-9New commit by jdgordon (r24233): Get rid of those horrible macros to protect against NULL reference when looking up the id3 info for tokens. ...
08:21:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:25:10JdGordongrr... can someone please see what revision checkwps is on the theme site and update it if its not at least 24220?
08:30:31CIA-9New commit by jdgordon (r24234): fix red
08:30:54amiconntomers: mandelbrot_set.c also needs to see USEGSLIB, hence you need to define it in a .h
08:31:33amiconnRight now it won't work on any greyscale target. It might even crash
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08:33:02*amiconn thinks this madelbrot split was committed way too early
08:33:43amiconnInline functions in .c files.... this cannot work
08:34:21amiconnThey're meant for speed, but now they're *slowing down* thing. Depending on target this is potentially slower than using C code
08:39:21JdGordonsomeone want to explain the deltas on my last commit?
08:40:22Unhelpfulask bloat-o-meter/objdiff? :)
08:40:38JdGordonyeah, doing
08:40:54JdGordoncoldfire is better at something than pp and sh?
08:41:37JdGordonarm and sh i mean of course
08:43:02JdGordonbloat-o-meter only sees a 14byte diff
08:43:16UnhelpfulJdGordon: depends... on whether you're adding or removing, and what it does. CF can't do shift+logic/arith sequences nearly as efficiently as ARM, and if you're adding or removing code that abuses these, the delta will be larger on CF than ARM.. and a good deal larger on sh i'd think
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08:43:26Unhelpfultry objdiff?
08:44:21JdGordonsame... meh, I dont care that much :)
08:44:53Unhelpfulmake sure you compare the right things? (different builds for same arch)
08:45:18*JdGordon is an idiot, svn up-ed to the wrong rev
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08:46:22JdGordonthose disgusting macros that I removed added 600 bytes!
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10:37:35funmanare some of you still interested into releasing 3.5 this month ?
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11:25:17tomersamiconn: Thanks. Will do that today
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12:12:27AlexPWhy was mandlebrot renamed? I don't really care, I just don't remember seeing any mention of it before it was done.
12:14:15funmanAlexP: looking at the commit log, it's to add other fractals
12:14:33AlexPhmmm, OK
12:15:10AlexPI don't care, and this probably makes sense - it just would have expected to see it mentioned first :)
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12:15:54Unhelpfulso, it'll support that 3D mandelbulb thingy soon?
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12:39:07tomersAlexP: Indeed I forgot to explain or document the name change...
12:40:17AlexPtomers: Yeah, I see why now - I was just surprised to see it at first
12:40:53AlexPChanging names is always a pain in the arse, as people will now have both Mandelbrot and Fractal
12:41:00AlexPCan't avoid that though
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12:42:15tomersThere are other fractals sets: Julia set, etc...
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12:44:17tomersI just want to say that today I will close all related bugs of my work. I've already noticed that screen scrolling doesn't work on ipod4g, and probably on other gray targets as well. My assumption is that it is a simulator bug (that's what I am using). Does anyone of you have a gray LCD target, which can test this?
12:44:36AlexPAt home, but not with me
12:44:48AlexPWhat do you mean by screen scrolling?
12:44:53funmani have a clipv1, should I just look if long entries scroll ?
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12:45:40tomersWhen the user moves, the rect that was already painted is scrolled. See apps/plugins/fractals/fractal.c in plugin_start()
12:46:19AlexPoh, you mean scrolling in fractal
12:46:33tomersfunman: I've meant in the fractals plugin. It uses MYXLCD(scroll_down),when #define MYXLCD(fn) grey_ub_ ## fn
12:46:44AlexPI'll look tonight if you like
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12:48:23CIA-9New commit by tomers (r24235): Fractals: Fix yellow ...
12:49:26funmantomers: how can i trigger the bug? fractals look fine on clipv
12:50:30tomersfunman: Does it move and zoom properly? If so, then it is OK. Also check in the simulator, it might be a bug there.
12:52:09funmanit moves and zooms properly
12:52:28tomersgood! I'll check the simulator myself
12:53:09tomersfunman: Is it Clip v1 ?
12:55:10*tomers Compiling sansaclip simulator to see if it works there
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12:58:10tomersfunman: The fractals plugin in the sansaclip simulator looks like crap :-( It doesn't even shows the initial view properly
12:58:35funmanother demos using graylib work fine?
12:58:53tomersUnfortunately, no
12:59:51tomersI don't know if it is a bug in the plugin or in the LCD implementation of the simulator. Most probably the first one is trye
13:00:11funmanif other demos don't work the bug is in the sim
13:00:59CIA-9New commit by tomers (r24236): Fractals: Use defines for colors ...
13:03:08tomersOther demos work. It's my bug... Most probably it worked before today (too bad I can't test it right now). I'll sit on it tonight. I have to go now.
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15:03:44CIA-9New commit by funman (r24237): Sansa AMS: remove "ata" from SD drivers filenames
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16:11:31soapJdGordon, I assume you're at work, so give me a shout when you have a bit of time after. I have an idea regarding your playlist viewer in WPS.
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16:39:12kugelheh, I profiled strlen()
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17:01:26kugela call with short strings needs ~60µs it seems
17:02:19saratogawhich player, clock speed?
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17:05:27kugelit appears to be slower for aligned strings :S
17:07:55saratogawhere is usb_charging defined in the manual?
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17:10:52saratogahuh r24005 screws up the manual
17:11:27saratogawhy exactly was usb_charging disabled on all but 2 targets?
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17:13:11saratogatomers: can you explain that commit?
17:15:36gevaertsusb_charging seems to be used in two different meanings in the manual...
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17:16:31kugelalright, it makes sense then. the strlen optimizations for aligned strings makes it slightly slower for short strings, but a lot faster for longer ones
17:16:58gevaertsi.e. r24005 removed one bug by adding another one
17:19:10saratogathe other meaning is if theres an option to enable/disable it ?
17:19:31kugelthe other implementiation which does byte checks until the string is aligned is a lot faster for unaligned strings than our strlen()
17:20:20saratogawhich devices can actually disable USB charging?
17:20:28saratogai would think that would be an all or none option
17:21:05gevaertsI'd expect those with HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE, i.e. h300 and nano2g
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17:21:51gevaertsI'm not sure what exactly that means on those though
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17:28:57Tornefor nano2g I believe it means what the proposed patch for the older ipods means: whether to draw 100 or 500 mA from USB
17:29:17saratogait seems that it just checks if a device implements usb_charging_enable
17:29:24Torne(which means that charging is never actually disabled)
17:30:07Tornesaratoga: yes, that's what it means in the manual
17:30:26Torneat some point i need to write a proposal for how to revise all this stuff
17:30:52Tornethe differences in capability between devices is too much, and the code i have not yet written which follows usb charging rules properly would complicate it more :(
17:31:01saratogahow do other targets handle enabling charging?
17:31:08gevaertsthey don't
17:31:09Tornethey don't
17:31:15Torneall the other targets do nothing special
17:31:29Tornehwusb targets do whatever the hw usb does, obviously
17:31:45gevaertsFor the r24005 issue, I think features.txt just needs usb_charging and usb_charging_enable, dependent on HAVE_USB_POWER and HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE, and then the manual can use both in the right places
17:31:56Torneswusb targets either always draw 500mA, or always draw 100mA, or always draw whatever the source will provide, or try and do it right but not entirely (gigabeat S)
17:32:21Tornei think we need to come up with a better plan for this :)
17:32:53Tornesince depending on hardware there might be *four* choices for instantaneous behaviour (0/100/500/infinite) and several choices for how to choose between them :(
17:33:17Tornemost of the ipods have the 100/500 choice, and it's suspected they also have the 0 choice.
17:33:42*kugel could make strlen() a lot faster for unaligned long strings, but that would make unaligned short strings a bit slower (aligned strings untouched)
17:35:26saratogaTorne: but that option is just used to enable or disable charging altogether
17:35:37saratogai think all sw charging targets can do that
17:35:44TorneNo, it's not :)
17:35:44saratogai know AMS can
17:35:54Torneit's only used on h300 and nano2g
17:35:57gevaertssaratoga: the hardware may be able to do that, but the code doesn't do it
17:36:10Tornebecause the option isn't there on anything else, as you already said :)
17:36:22Torneand on nano2g I don't think it *does* disable charging altogether
17:36:32Tornei think it just stops it from setting the full power mode
17:36:33*kugel thinks it would be worth it, the average case would probably be improved
17:36:35*gevaerts still thinks that whoever thought of charging over usb should be locked up
17:37:12kugelif it was only one person there probably wouldn't be a mess :p
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17:37:37gevaertsthey should have thought of it while writing the USB spec, or not at all
17:37:56saratogaTorne: we have code written to control enabling the USB charger on AMS, its just not exposed outside of /firmware
17:37:59gevaertskugel: maybe run a build that has counters for all categories?
17:38:05Tornesaratoga: right. and what are the options?
17:38:17Tornecan it do all four of 0/100/500/infinite?
17:38:25saratogai think its TRUE/FALSE
17:38:31kugelgevaerts: even more work?
17:38:55saratoga OFFON_SETTING(0,usb_charging,LANG_USB_CHARGING,false,"usb charging",NULL),
17:38:57TorneYes, but is that "don't draw any power at all vs draw 500ma" or "draw none vs draw 100ma" or "draw 100ma vs 500ma" or "draw 500ma vs unregulated" etc :)
17:39:22Tornethere exist devices (not necessarily targets we support now, but embedded devices in general) which can do *all four* of those
17:39:31kugelI'm not sure I can do real realistic tests; the counter has limited accuracy
17:40:00Torneand there are at least three reasonable user desires for how to charge: "draw minimal/no power because i don't want my laptop battery sucked up, draw power in accordance with th eusb spec so my hardware doesn't melt, draw as much power as possible to charge fast"
17:40:02saratogawhat the reason for exposing this to the user ?
17:40:12Tornesaratoga: i'm not suggesting exposing this to the user
17:40:20Tornei'm just saying that having a setting which is on/off is inadequate
17:40:20kugelI currently count µs for like thousand calls. I'm not sure it's accurate enough for single calls
17:40:30Tornegiven that different hardware has wildly varying capabilities
17:40:46Torneand given that some of those capabilities violate specs and risk physical damage to the devices involved
17:40:53saratogaTorne: well if theres no reason to expose it to the user, then HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE should be removed since its only used in the settings menu as far as I can tell
17:41:21Torneyou are missing the point entirely
17:41:38Tornethe user may want one of the three things above, or something else
17:42:19Tornenone of them correspond nicely to a yes/no answer to the question "enable usb charging"
17:42:30Torneat least not in a generic way; they do on some targets, maybe
17:42:58gevaertskugel: I mean, the tests you've done show how expensive various string lengths are, but we basically have no idea about how the lengths are distributed. What I'm suggesting is to change strlen() to collect that data (and only that, no timing tests in the same run)
17:43:10gevaertsAnd then combine both sets of data to decide
17:43:30gevaertsAnd finally make sure not to commit this slow debug code :)
17:43:39kugelwhat I did seems faster for medium strings already (length: 15-20
17:43:58kugelI'm doing this within a plugin, don't worry :p
17:44:17gevaertsThat's what I was suspecting :)
17:44:29saratogano I mean do we actually have a good reason to let users decide how a USB charger works? it seems like a pretty rarely used setting
17:44:59gevaertssaratoga: if you don't, you can't really connect a player that does USB charging to a non-powered hub
17:45:18Tornesaratoga: at the moment what we do is different on different players, even when it shouldn't be
17:45:30Tornesome players we charge at full speed even when the USB spec *forbids* this
17:45:38Tornesome players we don't charge at full speed even when the usb spec allows this
17:45:51gevaertskugel: but do you have some idea about how long typical strings are?
17:45:52Torneand there is no way for the user to control this behaviour
17:46:15Tornesaratoga: specific example: if I plug a DAP that always charges into my keyboard's internal USB hub my keyboard stops working
17:46:25Tornebecause the hub's safety cutout kills the power to the entire hub including the keyboard
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17:46:40Tornea cheaper piece of hardware might melt :)
17:46:45Torneor at least let out the magic smoke.
17:46:56kugelgevaerts: no
17:47:09gevaertsso collect that information :)
17:48:00kugelbugger :)
17:48:02Tornesaratoga: another specific example: i've seen people request a no-charging-at-all option before, because they want to use their mp3 player as a disk for a laptop or similar, and they don't want to extend the already perfectly sufficient life of the mp3 player's battery at the expense of the laptop's probably insufficient life
17:48:36Tornecurrently our behaviour is haphazard across different targets, only a few targets give the user control at all, and the user's control doesn't necessarily do what you think it does.
17:48:42Tornedoes that explain the problem? :)
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18:07:47kugelthere's seems to be an extra ordinary huge strlen call count at boot for strings with len == 2
18:08:18kugelit's at 10k+ shortly after boot, but then when using rockbox actually it doesn't go up as fast anymore
18:09:50kugelskin parsing is calling it with 2 so often
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18:33:07kugel a bit better readable (without the 10k peak)
18:36:54*kugel decides to not do anything
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18:37:46kugelthe optimization gives a noticable speed up only for strings > 15, and it appears only a very little percent of strings passed to strlen have such a length
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18:44:04gevaertskugel: have you checked for alignment?
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18:45:22gevaertsit might be worth checking if aligned strlen only has the same distribution
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18:47:36gevaertshm, not sure
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18:53:00JdGordonsoap: pong, or wait another 40min
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18:53:26soapperfect timing
18:53:43soap(on your part, though it appears with the commit I'm too late)
18:54:19soapYour playlist in WPS idea got me thinking that seeing the /previous/ track would be nice.
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18:55:01soapI assume you could do it the same way, so long as it is in the buffer, but was uncertain what the costs would be of just remembering the last track info regardless of buffer status.
18:55:03JdGordondon't tell anyone, but you can use negative offsets already
18:55:35JdGordonI really wnated to add that, but was having problems getting the id3... it might work, it probbaly wont just yet
18:55:38JdGordonthats on the list
18:56:31JdGordonna, I dont want to touch the buffer at all, if the track isnt there anymore it wouldn't try to remember it
18:56:49kugelwouldn't it be possible to alloc a id3 struct on the skin buffer, and copy from the real struct upon TRACKCHANGE event?
18:57:33JdGordonits too late by then
18:57:51soapthe issue I see - and perhaps I've missed a conversation on this in the last few days - is that an option has been given to themers which is going to behave inconsistently.
18:58:46JdGordonnot really. the bahaviour is consistant with a set of rules
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18:59:29soapIf I make a theme showing current track and next track I know what I'm going to get.
19:00:03soapIf I make a themes showing current track, next, and third track, the third track may or may not show up depending on buffer status - correct?
19:04:11JdGordonyou have 2 text fields to play with, one for if the buffer is there, the second if its not
19:04:16*JdGordon back in an hour
19:04:24JdGordonhave a look at the demo wps in the thread
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19:55:30JdGordon|soap: back
19:56:06JdGordon|I dont tihnk its any different to the other tags which show nothing when there is no id3 info avilable
19:56:13JdGordon|%i* %I*
19:56:37soapwow - your timing is impeccable today. Just got back to the computer 2 minutes ago.
19:57:32soapThe difference is that those /predictably/ "fail" (I hate the negative conitations of fail, but can't think of another word - don't take it as an insult please)
19:57:44 Quit wry ("...")
19:58:47soapThey also behave consistently and the lack of info can be remedied by user action (tagging files). The thing about this is that it will show the third track one time, and not the next - depending on buffer status.
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20:00:38JdGordon|in that case, the bigger problem should be that you will get blanks if a tag isnt there (genre for example) but the rest are
20:00:57JdGordon|if there is no info at all then a second set of tags will be shown (probably just the filename)
20:01:13JdGordon|the line looks like %Vp|1|%ia|%fn|
20:01:34JdGordon|artist is always shown (or tries to show) if the id3 is loaded, filename otherwise
20:01:49JdGordon|if the artist field isnt set, it will be blank
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20:02:52soapI was going to say "yea, I dig" in a slightly dismissive way - but that doesn't help you understand my lack of understanding. I guess what I am trying to understand (and lord knows you are under no obligation to justify yourself to me of all people (this REALLY is just an attempt to understand, not confront))
20:03:50soapis (even though the implementation of this is inexpensive, it seems to be the first time there has been a WPS tag which behaves so inconsistently.
20:06:12JdGordon|"what I'm trying to understand is..." ?
20:06:38soapclose parentheses after "inexpensive" instead of a comma.
20:07:58soap"what I'm trying to understand is..." To be blunt - since when is any binsize cost justified in the name of "features" which behave in an unreliable manner? (blunt but with no insult intended)
20:10:18JdGordon|blunt is good :)
20:10:31JdGordon|you're saying it shuold have been more expensive or not at all?
20:11:16soap_asking_ (not saying) Why implement features simply "because we can" if they have dubious merit?
20:11:49JdGordon|I disagree with the second part of that :)
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20:11:57JdGordon|and "because we can" is what drives human nature
20:12:16soapI mean, I LIKE the ability to show tracks deeper in the playlist - but I can't see using this since it will not /consistently/ show me the Nth track.
20:12:49kugelironically the playlist viewer is more useless with less RAM, and considering the cost it helps rendering itself useless :p
20:12:52soapI may be an arrogant SOB, but I can't believe I'm the only one who feels it isn't worth scripting into a WPS because of that issue.
20:13:31JdGordon|ignoring completly that it goes wierd at the end of the playlist. you can set it up to always get the filename, you can always have it showing something
20:14:06JdGordon|kugel: that confused me alot
20:14:55JdGordon|soap: To be perfectly honest, I *Hate* writing wps code, and this wouldnt want me to go diving either, but I felt it was a really cool idea and would be very useful for those that would use it
20:15:05JdGordon|(and i thought it would be more of a challenge than it was :p )
20:15:29JdGordon|size wise, I cant imagine its even close to the amount "wasted" for AA
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20:16:11kugelmaybe you could've waited to see if it's really as cool as you thought
20:16:31kugelI'm not arguing against it, but i also doubt I'm ever going to use it
20:16:31JdGordon|oh it is!
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20:17:42soapThe distinction my addled mind is drawing, though, (and this is the last time I'll say it) is that AA behaves in a predictable manner (assuming the end user has their half of the bargain done). This behaves in a manner I find inconsistent - and appears that it must (without the whole "read the metadata of tracks not yet buffered")
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20:19:26JdGordon|not entirely.
20:19:43JdGordon|even if AA is setup correctly, it still might not display for buffer reasons
20:19:44kugelJdGordon|: my theme shows small parts of the main backdrop in the wps
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20:20:39kugelstrangely though, if I move the set_backdrop() part in the if (restore) part into enter_wps(), then it works ... and enter_wps() is also called in the if (restore) part!
20:20:39JdGordon|but yes, you are correct that it acts differently to everything else, but its also the only one which can take skin code as inputs, so it has to
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20:23:26JdGordon|soap: also, I really think that anyone who is smart enuogh to be able to write up a wps, and understands the need to do %?It<%It> will understand why this works how it does
20:23:40soapthank you, JdGordon, (who is nick "jd"? (they're messing up my tab-complete)) for taking the time to hear my grievances.
20:24:08JdGordon|jd isnt me!... kill the imposter!
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20:34:28CIA-9New commit by gevaerts (r24238): Differentiate between HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE and HAVE_USB_POWER for the manual. This is what r24005 probably should have been
20:35:03rasherWhy is the themes.db suddenly not writable by the themes user on the theme site
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20:35:08rasherscorche: mind helping out here?
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20:40:07rasherscorche: chown themes:www-data private/themes.db; chmod 770 private/themes.db
20:42:26gevaertsWhere does the delta in r24238 come from? That should not have changed any code
20:43:58gevaertssurely that doesn't *cause* bloat? ;)
20:44:04kugelmaybe language related
20:44:40gevaertsshouldn't be. That feature is only used in the manual as far as I can see
20:44:56*gevaerts hopes to know soon
20:46:04scorche|shrasher: lemme have a look
20:46:58rasherscorche|sh: It's obstructing the cronjob that should've updated with checkwps results
20:47:21gevaertsit seems to be language. Why?
20:47:42pixelmaI don't think we have many manual only features
20:48:20pixelmayou could look at any language that is somewhat up-to-date and see where usb_* is used
20:48:44gevaertsgah, I didn't look properly
20:48:47*gevaerts is an idiot
20:48:48kugelgevaerts: maybe more targets get the langs marked with usb_charging now?
20:49:27gevaertsrasher: how bad is it for lang files if a feature gets renamed? Will strings change?
20:49:46rashergevaerts: if you change the langfiles accordingly, there's no issue
20:50:02scorche|shrasher: done
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20:51:56CIA-9New commit by gevaerts (r24239): Also change usb_charging to usb_charging_enable in the lang files
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21:48:52funmanbertrik: could you test on your c200v2 the patches i posted on ?
21:51:39JdGordon|rasher: :'(
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22:02:11AlexPAny fuze owners?
22:02:36AlexPDo you check the OF version with Settings −−> System Info?
22:05:41JdGordon|not regularly
22:06:37AlexPhehe :)
22:06:44AlexPYou know full well what I mean :)
22:08:19AlexPSystem Settings according to google
22:09:37JdGordon|I can double check for you when i get home, if you remind me
22:09:54AlexPCheers - I'm pretty confident that is correct
22:10:19AlexPI'll stick it in anyway as a testament to my confidence :)
22:12:07CIA-9New commit by alex (r24240): Add note about the unsupported v2 model to the Fuze manual.
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22:21:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:31:00CIA-9New commit by saratoga (r24241): Clarify boot to OF on USB insert for Sansa AMS to make clear that the player will always boot to the OF on USB power up.
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22:43:20nookupeoushas any more progress been made on the ipod 6G using that vulnerability?
22:44:15krazykit0 progress is still 0 progess
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22:53:42CIA-9New commit by saratoga (r24242): Apparently my text editor puts tabes in .tex files.
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23:35:06perfectdrughi:) why is it that the themes site just shows themes for the e200v1 but not for the v2 player? I thought they are the same...
23:35:31JdGordon|they are the same, its a bug somewhere
23:42:45perfectdrugok thank you I was just curious
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