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#rockbox log for 2010-01-19

00:00:49*gevaerts proposes a mail to -dev to ask if anyone objects to the freeze, with 24 hours to reply
00:00:53kugeland 3.6 on march 23rd already?
00:00:56JdGordon||which puts the next one at may (so we prob wont be releaseing over devocn)
00:01:07gevaertskugel: let's decide on one release at a time :)
00:02:11B4gderdevcon however...
00:02:21AlexPJdGordon||: Yeah, let's do it
00:02:55*JdGordon|| will email the dev-ml unless nyone else has already started
00:03:18gevaertsJdGordon||: go ahead. I was going to start, but I was interrupted by a slightly more urgent mail
00:03:30JdGordon||more urgent?!
00:03:35JdGordon||what on earth could be more urgetnT
00:05:47 Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl)
00:09:11bmblhmm I downloaded both sample videos (from for my Sansa e280v2 and put them on a sdCard but they're not showing up in the filebrowser. Any advice?
00:09:44AlexPCheck the "Show files" setting
00:09:52AlexPmake sure it is either all or supported
00:09:58kugelthe dreaded one
00:10:09bmblDamnit so easy?
00:10:09AlexPkugel: yeah
00:10:17bmblthanks :)
00:10:27AlexPI'd really like that moved off the quickscreen defaults
00:10:32AlexPbmbl: No worries
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00:19:10JdGordon||AlexP: it just needs someone to work out a better default
00:19:15JdGordon||but yes, that really shuold be removed
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00:41:02Tornegevaerts: my change enabled multisector writes, reads were already multisector, but it's not impossible it's that change
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01:06:15S_a_i_n_tin regards to the quickscreen defaults, what about makingthe top& bottom selection volume up&down?
01:06:48S_a_i_n_tI'm not really a fan of the 'show files' setting being there either
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01:12:55JdGordon||S_a_i_n_t: meh, there should be a better one.. also not every target has the up one
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01:18:54kugel_which doesn't have the up one?
01:19:22JdGordon||isnt it only on targets with a big enough screen?
01:21:20kugel_I couldn't remember anymore either but I just looked and it appears I removed that special handling
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01:39:49 Nick JdGordon|| is now known as JdGordon (n=Miranda@nat/microsoft/x-trtigzttipvyfvbo)
01:39:55Mode"#rockbox +o JdGordon " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:40:10Kick(#rockbox klapaucjusz :no viruses thanks) by JdGordon!n=Miranda@rockbox/developer/JdGordon
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01:41:46klapaucjuszNo, it's slides from a presentation that might be relevant to Rockbox.
01:41:52kugel_suspicious links :\
01:42:05klapaucjuszSorry, I'll be more careful next time.
01:42:32JdGordongive some context before posting links
01:42:42Mode"#rockbox -o JdGordon " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:43:02JdGordonnot to mention that the video that goes with that slideshow is far more interesting
01:43:05klapaucjuszWill do.
01:44:52*JdGordon cant find it :(
01:46:54kugel_we actually meet some points
01:49:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:50:43JdGordonthats bloody painful to read.. could they make it look any worse?
01:51:02 Part toffe82
01:52:03kugel_funny that sun makes jokes about "no outside committers"
01:52:21JdGordonok, I might have got the wrong impression from my quick look... is the video though
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01:54:01klapaucjuszkugel_: I think that he's not speaking for Sun. I take it as a stab at his own company.
01:54:49kugel_head over to -community, its getting off topic
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02:57:26S_a_i_n_tthis line/string "MAKE_MENU(root_menu_, ID2P(LANG_ROCKBOX_TITLE),
02:57:30S_a_i_n_t item_callback, Icon_Rockbox," in ~/rockbox/apps/ is the one that displays the title 'Rockbox' in the main menu....correct? If so, how do I need to edit it in order to just show a blank line?
02:59:39JdGordonyou can remove the title with a setting cant you?
02:59:58JdGordonor do you want the blank line?
03:00, I don't think there's a setting for it, if there is I don;t know about it/where it is.
03:01:30S_a_i_n_ta blank line wold be preferred though
03:01:41S_a_i_n_tso I'd like to knOw how to do that thanks
03:02:35JdGordonhmm, the setting is only for the browsers
03:02:45JdGordonchange ID2p(...) to just ""
03:03:01JdGordonyou will still get the titles in other menus though
03:03:43S_a_i_n_tthat's exactly what I want, (other menu titles still I mean...) thanks man, you're a lifesaver once again.
03:05:06JdGordonthat better not have been a veiled attempt to ask how to rename rockbox for your custom builds!
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03:13:58Unhelpful curious, calculating x/y and x%y seems to be faster than either one singly. i would think that even if completing the calculations for on value fills cycles where the other would stall anyway that it would still be *at best* the same speed...
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04:24:15ssfAnybody know if this is a v1 or v2 Fuze on There are conflicting answers in the Product Q & A section. I suppose it could be randomly one or the other? "SanDisk Sansa Fuze 2GB Media Player (Black) - Refurbished - SDMX14R-002GK-R"
04:25:17S_a_i_n_tssf: as far as I know, the only way to know if it's v1 or v2 for sure is to check the firmware version
04:25:35S_a_i_n_twhich you won;t be able to do online...
04:25:47S_a_i_n_tunless you specifically ask the seller (if you can)
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04:27:14ssfS_a_i_n_t: right, but according to my brother any model # ending in -A72 is certainly a v2. The one he got was a refurbished 4gb. He says he asked on here and people said it was _probably_ a v1 but it wasn't guaranteed. I'm mainly wondering if anyone happens to know either way for this one.
04:27:39ssfmind you, he ordered one that wasn't an -A72
04:29:02S_a_i_n_tafaik, if the firmware revision is then it's a v1....if it's it's a v2
04:29:10ssfanyone been buying fuzes to rockbox lately? seems like the refurbs would have to be the best bet.
04:29:21S_a_i_n_teven ones badges as v2 from factory can in fact be v1's
04:29:24ssf... or else used fuzes... maybe
04:29:40ssfoh, interesting.
04:30:06S_a_i_n_tI *think* that's the only way to tell...but I don;t actually own one.
04:30:20S_a_i_n_tjust that *MANY* people ask that question...regularly
04:30:27ssfheh, I see...
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04:31:19S_a_i_n_tso, if there's an option to be able to return the product...I'd say go for it. If you may end up getting stuck with it, then don;t bother.
04:31:45ssfthis is, so I dunno...
04:31:50S_a_i_n_tbetter to get one you *know* to be a v1
04:32:07ssfthe v2 port is still a ways off, right?
04:32:38S_a_i_n_twell, it's not finished....release dates are never given for rb ports.
04:32:51S_a_i_n_tas it's all a volunteer effort.
04:33:14ssfi mean, it's in a very early state still at this point, right?
04:34:54S_a_i_n_tThen general response for "when will port 'x' be available?" is, "Maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, maybe never"
04:36:51ssfsorry, above I should have said -A57 is always a v2, in case that misleads anyone.
04:38:24S_a_i_n_tI've never heard that myself, so I'm not sure if it's true or not. only way I know for sure is to turn the player on and see what the firmware revision reports as.
04:38:43S_a_i_n_tbut you may well be right.
04:38:51UnhelpfulS_a_i_n_t: in general we don't use labels like v1/v2 here if you can tell based on external features or product name :)
04:39:08ssfwell this what my brother said, and he heard it from someone else (probably on this channel) so who knows.
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06:47:20ED-209hello, there was a fix posted on flyspray about the h300 not turning on via the remote
06:47:39ED-209it said the problem was totally fixed but it's not
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06:48:20ED-209somene said it's a bootloader error but there hasn't been a new bootloader made yet, or has there?
06:49:03JdGordonthe svn bootloader will brick your h300, so no there is no newer bootloader (I tihnk v6 is the latest?)
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07:14:40S_a_i_n_tHmmm, quick question: yes or no, if you were to make a viewport with 'true magenta' as the background colour it'll actually be magenta, and not transparent...correct?
07:16:41JdGordonit will be transparent
07:16:53JdGordonuse 255,254,0 for "magenta"
07:17:07JdGordonreplacing the numbers so it actually is correct
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07:41:00*JdGordon has tockox going on his mini2440... finally!
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07:44:41JdGordoncould be worse
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07:49:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:56:20JdGordonarg, can we require all wps' in svn to use viewports?
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08:26:22CIA-44New commit by jdgordon (r24282): basic touchscreen support in the mini2440's cabbie file. play/repmode/shuffle buttons do their thing, battery goes to the menu
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08:49:46CIA-44New commit by jdgordon (r24283): Dont use the disk spindown notification on the mini2440, undo this if/when we have a clean way to force a shutdown/umount of the sd card
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09:04:38CIA-44New commit by jdgordon (r24284): undo the last commit... I'm too tired to fgure out how to make batt bench work without the spin down notification (aka, fix red the really lazy way)
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09:25:16AlexPJdGordon: Wasn't the plan to remove all WPSs from SVN save cabbie anyway?
09:25:54JdGordonif by "plan" you mean something we sort o think should happen but noone wants to actually do, then yes
09:26:02JdGordonbut even some cabbies dont use viewports
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09:26:24AlexPI think that is a legitimate use of the word plan :)
09:27:03AlexPIt is straightforward though surely - just a bit of work to get them onto the theme site first
09:27:37JdGordonis it even worth the effort?
09:28:14AlexPone mo
09:30:45AlexPJdGordon: Well possibly
09:31:15AlexPJdGordon: But I guess even if it isn't immediate then they are in svn history
09:31:49AlexPThe only real pain in the arse will be submitting them, as extracting them from a build is easy
09:31:59AlexPBut with no batch submission it'll take for ever
09:32:00JdGordonthere is of course no real reason to get rid of them, other than they dont get updated
09:32:18AlexPWe should gather volunteers to do a target each :)
09:32:29JdGordonto upload? or update?
09:32:32AlexPJdGordon: Well it is a bit cleaner I suppose
09:32:36AlexPJdGordon: upload
09:32:53JdGordonI'm sure a script could be done to speed it up
09:33:05JdGordonrasher: ^?
09:33:12AlexPJdGordon: You are right, there is no real reason - it just feels like that with the theme site and a decent default, there is no reason for them to be there
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09:41:15ZagorI wonder if we should attempt to create "teams" with different areas of speciality.
09:42:22ZagorI know at least I would probably be more productive if a number of patches and/or bugs were loosely "targeted" at me or a group I'm in.
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09:45:05S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: I've looked at the code in your latest test.wps for pl widget, but havent played around with sublines yet, are they different to regular sublines? they're seperated by ";" as usual but no time is specified with the %t tag. I'm familiar with the %t tag, but not in all of it's aspects, does it default to 1sec or something if not other time is specified?
09:49:01AlexPZagor: I think it is at least worth trying
09:49:35AlexPS_a_i_n_t: There is a default I think, check the wiki
09:49:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:50:41AlexPAlthough that says the default is there if %t is not specified at all
09:50:56S_a_i_n_tthanks AlexP
09:54:07S_a_i_n_tyeah thanks, it defaults to 2 seconds if %t'x' isn't specified. I'm pretty sure I have sublines in some WPSs that I've actually specified a 2 second transition with %t2.00...which in theory is harmless, but now I know it's 'wrong' persay I'll fix it up purely on principle.
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10:54:44*GodEater has been handed a VERY broken ipod video
10:55:28GodEaterthe apple logo keeps appearing (no backlight), and then disappears again in less than a second, only to reappear again a moment later. repeat ad infinitum.
10:55:29Z0rbasmanual isn't working on the site?
10:55:45GodEaterZ0rbas: manual for what target?
10:56:12GodEaterooh yes, nearly all of them are missing
10:56:34Z0rbasdid you know this?
10:56:53GodEaterI do now :)
10:57:11GodEateras to what's caused it....
10:58:00Z0rbasno html or image files
10:58:02Z0rbasall gone
10:59:07pixelmayesterday I wondered why there were no html-zips for everything but the archos targets
10:59:56Z0rbasdamn.. was looking forward to installing rb on my e200
11:00:15Z0rbasI had done it along time ago.. just fedup with freaken sansa fw..
11:00:16pixelmano, even more things are missing... someone who is able to should check if e.g. the e200 builds locally
11:00:21AlexPwill do
11:00:58Z0rbaslooks like it needs a restore
11:01:35AlexPZ0rbas: No, they are built every night
11:01:42JdGordonZagor: well, there is knowledgemap on the wiki, but it isnt updated often or used enough
11:01:59gevaertsZ0rbas: the release manuals at are still there. They should be good enough to get you going
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11:02:24ZagorJdGordon: right, that's a start.
11:02:24AlexPpixelma: The e200 manual builds fine here
11:02:34gevaertsonly pdf though
11:04:25AlexPgevaerts: html bseems to build OK here
11:04:47pixelmacould it be gevaerts' www commit? I can't view the change from here but thought I read that he did some changes to add the Packard Bell manual (not sure though)
11:05:22AlexPpixelma: Both the pdf and html e200 build for me
11:05:45AlexPthe html seems OK - I've only looked at it with links though
11:05:51GodEaterthis is an interesting issue with this ipod
11:05:58GodEaterit appears it got stuck in a loop booting
11:06:00gevaertspixelma: no. That was only the build server configuration
11:06:04GodEaterand this has deep discharged the battery
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11:12:46Z0rbasthank yopu
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11:20:58AlexPpixelma, gevaerts: Both the pdf and html for the e200 build fine and look fine here
11:21:10AlexPSo I guess it must be a build server/website thing
11:21:27AlexPBut unfortunately we don't have the manual build logs
11:22:00gevaertscould this be a late result of the Big Rename?
11:22:17AlexPTis possible I guess
11:23:15AlexPWe need some form of root vegtable to have a look :)
11:23:52gevaertsAlexP: I think you're confusing things. The ones you look for are capitalised, i.e. Root Vegetables
11:24:04AlexPah yes :)
11:29:12pixelmawasn't there a commit for rbutil recently too?
11:29:26pixelmaregarding the target rename
11:30:56Zagorthe build worked after that. this is something else. I'll look at it after lunch.
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12:14:23GodEatermy word, this ipod really is ill =/
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12:14:40GodEaterdoesn't look like it has enough juice to maintain a UMS connection
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13:37:40GodEaterwhat's the current version of ipodpatcher?
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14:20:00jjmartingood job on the FAQ
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14:35:15GodEaterjjmartin: that's something we rarely hear
14:38:11jjmartinis there a list of all the software it comes with and option installs? I see there is some stuff listed on the extras page
14:39:05GodEaterit ships with all the plugins we mention on the site, there's no need to download them as extras
14:39:25GodEaterthe only thing included in the "extras" pack is new fonts and (I think) the doom shareware wads
14:39:47gevaertsmidi things as well I think
14:39:50GodEaterah, no, other stuff too I see, but no "software", just data files
14:40:07jjmartinis there a complete list?
14:40:27GodEaterof what?
14:40:41jjmartineverything that comes with the install
14:41:15GodEaterthat's all the extra "applications" we ship
14:41:39S_a_i_n_tthough some plugins are target specific aren't they?
14:41:40*GodEater hopes this is what jjmartin is after
14:41:50TorneHm, I should add frotz to the wiki
14:41:56GodEateryou should ;)
14:42:13GodEaterS_a_i_n_t: the plugin page tries to show which targets run what plugins
14:42:34GodEateralthough it needs updating again with all the new targets we have :)
14:42:40Torneyeah i was gonna say that table seems short
14:42:43jjmartinGodEater, I mean what apps come with a normal install. there the OS, media players and what else?
14:42:53GodEaterjjmartin: that's it, that page lists them
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14:43:36Tornejjmartin: All of those things come with it
14:44:12TorneEverything that works on a specific player is in the install for that player
14:44:15GodEater/me points to the bit at the top of the plugins page which says "Note for Beginners: Plugins come pre-installed when you download Rockbox. You don't download and install them yourself!"
14:44:44S_a_i_n_tsubtle :P
14:44:48TorneHm, that table is autogenerated
14:44:59Tornei guess i should copy one of the other plugin pages :)
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14:45:26GodEaterTorne: seems like a sensible idea
14:45:54Tornehm, is the manual broken?
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14:45:57Torne...was that me?
14:46:03GodEaterno idea
14:46:09GodEaterZagor was going to look at it I think
14:46:10Tornethe manual is broken for everything except archos
14:46:15GodEaterwe know ;)
14:46:15Tornefrotz builds on everything except archos
14:46:22Tornethis might not be coincidence :)
14:46:26GodEaterit might be
14:46:28Tornei did build the manual before i committed though :)
14:46:30GodEaterbut we've tried manually building it
14:46:32GodEaterand it still works
14:46:43GodEaterso it might be something else entirely
14:47:04S_a_i_n_teasier to blame Torne though :P
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14:48:43jjmartinany suggestions for color screen devices?
14:50:40Tornemost of them? :)
14:51:11GodEaterdepends on your requirements
14:51:28jjmartinpodcasts and music copied over from CD's
14:51:28GodEaterI personally think the Gigabeat F is perhaps the best colour screen device
14:51:39GodEaterif you're not after recording and an FM radio that is
14:51:44GodEaterif you are, then it's not ideal
14:52:29jjmartindoes recording require external hardware though? It might be nice some time but all i care about is getting back my podcasts
14:52:31rossypersonally, i'm saving for a cowon d2+ as a colour screen device
14:52:58GodEaterjjmartin: depends on the device, some have built in mics, some don't
14:53:11GodEateripods don't for example, but can still record.
14:53:29jjmartinfirmware hack on the phone jack?
14:53:35GodEateralso, how much storage are you after? Is flash better than a hard disk?
14:53:43GodEaterthese are all questions we can't answer for you
14:53:49GodEaterso device choice is very personal :)
14:54:04GodEaterand it's why a lot of us have multiple devices
14:55:41jjmartinok. thanks for the help
14:55:45GodEaterany time
14:55:52GodEaterwe're here all week - try the veal
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15:00:29AlexPTorne: At least the e200 builds just fine, so that isn't the issue
15:02:10GodEaterhas anyone heard from linuxstb recently?
15:02:17GodEater!seen linuxstb
15:02:29*GodEater pokes logbot
15:02:50gevaertsGodEater: logbot doesn't work that way. He's shy, and you need to ask in private
15:02:54#>>"seen" used by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) [snoop prevented]
15:02:59GodEaterah ha
15:03:08GodEaterhe's been away a long time now
15:03:18AlexPyeah, ages
15:03:38GodEaterwhat did you say to him AlexP ?
15:03:43GodEateryou've clearly offended him
15:03:45AlexPhehe :)
15:04:07*GodEater is still trying to work out if our read/lseek functions are a bit broken
15:04:31GodEateror work in some magic way
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15:46:52Tornewell, i added a frotz wiki page
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15:47:13Tornethough it's mostly just the manual page copied :)
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15:53:15GodEaterthere's nothing wrong with that
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16:27:42at0mhi, has a link to download "global package of fmr-files" which doesn't seem to be a valid link
16:28:35at0merr, looks like that's an /old/ link =]
16:31:26AlexPVery likely
16:31:50AlexPAs it is a wiki, I imagine that was last updated anytime someone felt like it :)
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16:46:28Akraniswhen compiling tools like mktccboot, is there a make command for this or do I simply compile the source files with gcc?
16:48:12Tornedoesn't it get build when you just do "make" for a target that uses it?
16:49:30AkranisHm. I can't even find the source file for it. It was mentioned on the forum though.
16:50:41Torneah, it's in utils
16:50:49Torneso no, it doesn't get built if you just do "make"
16:51:05Tornethere's a Makefile in there, "make" should work.
16:51:37GodEaterAkranis: the "find" command is very useful ;)
16:52:21AkranisGodEater, I was looking for it in tools :P because in the forum quote it was ../tools/mktccboot
16:52:40GodEaterit may have been there once upon a time
16:52:43GodEaterand got moved
16:53:59AkranisHm. it was not built along with the bootloader. Advanced setting perhaps?
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16:59:33GodEaterAkranis: correct, as Torne says you have to go into the mktccboot directory and run make there
17:00:19AkranisAlrighty then.
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17:08:14AkranisHm. The second tool i tried to compile, tcctool.c, doesn't seem to want to compile though. it says it needs usb.h
17:08:29gevaertsit needs libusb
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17:17:49AkranisNice, it ran rockbox for a second before kernel panic :D
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17:20:22AlexPThat sounds suspiciously like linux :) Which Rockbox isn't! :)
17:20:55GodEateryeah, we just panic
17:20:58GodEaterwe don't kernel panic
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17:32:27BeltzAre 16 gb microSD (hc?) cards supposed to work as USB reconized hard drives when I plug my Sansa E280 to my computer?
17:33:02BeltzI know I can now use my microSD cards in my Sansa when plugging it directly, but when I switched from an 8 gb to 16gb card, it couldn't write properly...
17:33:14BeltzSo I am wondering if the card is a dud, or if there is a compatibility problem
17:35:11AkranisWell the iAudio7 memory is still only readonly, so I think that's what caused the panic.
17:35:54Beltz(was that for me?)
17:36:08AkranisNo that was for my error :P
17:37:53gevaertsBeltz: they should work. Do you have another card reader that supports sdhc you could try?
17:40:23BeltzNah, they are standard SD readers
17:40:34evilnickBeltz: Just to check, are you using them whilst running Rockbox? SDHC will not work on the OF.
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17:40:49BeltzI have an SDHC thing I put my microSD in but the USB drive to the computer is old
17:41:05Beltzevilnick: yes, with Rockbox firware
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17:41:38BeltzI connect to my computer and the rockbox thing shows an USB cable, and both my internal memory and microSD appear as drives
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17:42:10BeltzBut when I copy 6-7 gigs to the 16 gig card, most of the files don't appear and cause errors. Also usually when I transfer that many files, the drive becomes unreconized midway through the process...
17:42:36evilnickBeltz: Run chkdsk or equivalent
17:42:43BeltzIn other words, windows 7 detects it as a drive, lets me copy files... but 30 minutes later, if I click on the drive it gives some error
17:42:48TorneHas this card ever worked properly in any reader?
17:42:54Beltzevilnick: I formatted it a few times... I did quick formats though
17:42:55TorneBecause that sounds suspiciously like it might be a fake card
17:42:59BeltzTorne: no, just got it on ebay :(
17:43:10TorneThen it's almost certainly fake
17:43:10BeltzIt's brand less too
17:43:13TorneIt's fake.
17:43:14*Beltz feels like a dummy now
17:43:22BeltzThey make fake cards? But but... it's a power seller! :P
17:43:23TorneIt'll be some capacity much lower than it's labelled as
17:43:35Tornesuch that it works fine until you put more than a few files on it
17:43:35BeltzIt's just corrupted - it's useless as it is...
17:44:03BeltzGot it for 30$... too good to be true :)
17:44:09Torneif you run some bad-block checker which writes to the card on it, this will probably confirm it
17:44:19Tornebadblocks -w in something unixlike
17:44:26Tornechkdsk doesn't have a write-mode badblocks test, alas
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17:44:43BeltzProbably too much hassle to load a virtual machine with ubuntu to test this
17:44:49BeltzI'll just ask for a refund, see what happens...
17:44:56BeltzThanks for the help guys
17:44:57TorneIf it's from ebay and unlabelled then 99% chance it's fake, so yeah
17:44:59Tornesorry :)
17:45:09Tornedon't buy flash media on ebay
17:45:19Tornehe will probably refund you though
17:45:26Tornewith some lame excuse
17:45:28BeltzI got a great deal on my 8 gb microSD last year
17:45:33TorneSure, not everyone is fake
17:45:38Tornebut it's a market for lemons
17:45:46Torne <- see
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17:59:58AkranisGood news and bad news. I no longer get the panic message, but it doesn't seem to want to load my bootloader anymore. It skips into the FO instead.
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18:09:11AkranisOk, it boots from usb, but it loads the FO instead of rockbox. Is there someway to force it to load rockbox?
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18:23:03AkranisAh, finaly figured out the magical combination. I need to hold down MENU while plugging it in, and HOLD while flashing :> Now I'm back at the panic. "Max NAND write chaches readhed"
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18:32:12Akranisoh wait, I misread it because it continued outside the screen. I think the error reads "Max NAND write cache reached"
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19:34:28AlexPSo chaps, freeze? Anything last minute before that? :)
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19:40:33bertrikI think a freeze is fine now, I'm not aware of anything really urgent that would have to delay the freeze
19:41:06AlexPIf we are going to I'd just like to get on with it :)
19:43:37*gevaerts promotes AlexP to the role of Official Rockbox Release Manager
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19:51:39AlexPgevaerts: Hehe :)
19:52:00*pixelma calls the RSB
19:52:00AlexPgevaerts: Does that mean I get to tell you to do stuff? :P
19:52:35gevaertspixelma: yes?
19:53:09*gevaerts admits to only being 20% of the RSB though
19:53:29AlexPbut what a 20%!
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19:59:47JdGordon|I can still commit a patch if its worded to fix a bug right?
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20:00:44AlexPIt would be better if it were to actually fix a bug, and didn't just say it was to :)
20:00:47gevaertsJdGordon|: not if you warn us about your plans
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20:01:15JdGordon|fortuanrtly you have no idea which of my "fixes" isnt really :)
20:01:38AlexPI don't, no - but I suspect others do :)
20:02:16*gevaerts will now read commits from certain unnamed people very carefully ;)
20:02:37JdGordon|oh good, thanks to the naming policy, I'm still safe
20:02:44AlexPhaha :)
20:03:24*gevaerts makes further plans, but he won't advertise those
20:08:38JdGordon|right, are we giong to release test builds as soon as we freeze?
20:09:05pamaurygevaerts: is the notion of 'short packet' defined in the USB spec or is it Linux specific ? I'm having problems with that. I have a hack but it's not satisfactory
20:09:08JdGordon|even though obviously there will be no different than the nightly
20:09:22gevaertsJdGordon|: no point really. I'd start with RC builds when we branch
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20:09:36gevaertsWe could do some RC builds before that to practice a bit though
20:09:53gevaertsor do you expect more testers if we call them RC?
20:12:25*domonoky would expect more testers, if we call them RC and advertise them on the frontpage :-)
20:13:02gevaertsthat's probably a good enough reason to do them
20:14:49CurtmanI've been checking in periodically on this project for a few years now.. I've got a mini2440 here that I'm hoping to get Rockbox working on. Does anyone know how much of the work the lyre project did on the mini made it back into rockbox proper?
20:16:16JdGordon|all of it is in svn i believe
20:16:50bertrikpamaury, AFAIK it's not Linux specific
20:17:29gevaertspamaury: short packets are in the USB spec
20:17:50gevaertsThey're what you get if you don't have an integer number of packets
20:18:42CurtmanJdGordon, It looks like it, yeah.. It's hard to wander into documentation for a port that has been merged back in.. :) Their docs mention some OpenOCD scripts in their svn, but all that seems to be in there now is hardware designs for extra functionality of the mini.. Does rockbox source tree have a place that they might have been moved to?
20:20:49JdGordon|those openocd scripts havnt been moved across I think
20:21:37CurtmanOkay,, I'll keep searching for them, or make my own.. Thanks
20:23:25CurtmanIt seems as though the Gentoo crossdev script hates me anyway, so it will be a while before OpenOCD is an issue. :(
20:23:27pamaurybertrik, gevaerts: my problem is the following. The vhci driver gives me linux URB which are NOT usb packet. A URB can require several packets to complete. So a problem arises when I have an URB and a send buffer which is not big enough to fill the URB. I have two choice: complete the URB or wait for another send to continue buffer filling. Now, it becomes tricky because some URB have a SHORT_NOT_OK flags telling that short pac
20:23:27pamaurykets are not ok. But here is problem: Linux sends me an URB for SCSI mode sense 10 which length=192 and rockbox responds with 12 bytes...and this packet as SHORT_NOT_OK flags !
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20:25:13TheSevenpamaury: how is that handled on real hardware?
20:25:48gevaertspamaury: if you want to compile rockbox, we really recommend using a build environment built using our scripts
20:26:11gevaertsCurtman: if you want to compile rockbox, we really recommend using a build environment built using our scripts
20:26:20*gevaerts wonders what happened there
20:26:57pamauryHardware doesn't have this flag. It deals only with packets. So on normal hardware, I guess the hcd driver sees this 12 bytes asnwers and the 192 URB with SHORT_NOT_OK. So it's should normally report an error but that would be strange
20:27:19gevaerts192 is already a short packet in high speed
20:27:26pamauryYes that's my point
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20:27:47bertrikpamaury, for which stage of the BOT protocol does this happen?
20:27:57pamauryBOT ?
20:28:04TheSevengevaerts: short packet = packet where the device did transfer less data than the host did expect? I don't think this is related to the maximum transfer size
20:28:04Curtmangevaerts, Okay.
20:28:31TheSevenpamaury: USB Mass Storage Bulk-Only Transport
20:29:14bertrikTheSeven, no I think it IS related to the maximum packet size
20:29:33pamauryAFAIK, this happend only for the MODE SENSE(10) command
20:29:39TheSevenah, wait, I meant "short transfer", not "short packet"
20:29:57TheSevenbut i guess this is what SHORT_NOT_OK refers to
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20:30:40TheSeveni.e. smaller than the host expected, not smaller than the maximum allowed packet size at the given speed
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20:31:17pamauryEven with that, I should report an error which is strange
20:31:28pamaurybecause 12<192 and Rockbox sends 12 bytes
20:31:31TheSevenyes, and that's why I asked that question
20:31:46TheSevenI would suggest doing a wireshark trace of that situation on real hardware
20:32:08pamauryI think you're right
20:32:32pamauryHardware tells the truth ;)
20:33:14gevaertsdoes it actually cause problems?
20:34:26bertrikcan the host know the length of the mode sense response in advance?
20:35:03bertrikI can imagine that it just sends a rather big expected size if it doesn't, but then I wouldn't expect SHORT_NOT_OK
20:35:39pamaurygevaerts: the strangest thing is that if I complete the URB with only 12 bytes, it works ! But perhaps the SHORT_NOT_OK flags is not enforced by the vhci
20:36:20bertrikok, problem solved !?
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20:37:31gevaertspamaury: from what I can find, this is indeed not a problem
20:38:02pamauryI find it weird to have something working but not understanding why it works.
20:39:10domonokyCurtman: the openocd scripts are still in the lyre hg repository.
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20:39:32pamauryIndeed, it's not a *pratical* problem because then everything works (for the read part of UMS ;)) but there is something strange I would like to understand. I've send a mail to the vhci's author. Perhaps he will be able to explain me !
20:40:01gevaertspamaury: in linux/drivers/usb/storage/transport.c, EREMOTEIO (which is what you get for short packets with SHORT_NOT_OK) gets interpreted as USB_STOR_XFER_SHORT
20:41:29gevaertssome random web results seem to indicate that the SHORT_NOT_OK thing is because of historical reasons
20:41:35JdGordon|domonoky: do you know if the geeneral area of the SD speed bug on the mini2440 is known?
20:41:51AlexPHmmm, USB HID stops my laptop booting
20:42:18AlexPIf HID is enabled and the S plugged in, when I boot it gets stuck on POST just before detecting the hard drive
20:42:25AlexPWith HID not enabled, it boots fine
20:42:31pixelmasomeone else reported that too during the weekend
20:42:56AlexPyeah - I was really confused why my laptop wouldn't boot, then I realised the beast was plugged in
20:43:08AlexPso then did some tests, and sure enough
20:44:10domonokyJdGordon|: for one, i think at least a part of those mci_delays can be removed, this gives a good speed-up
20:44:10AkranisMy computer does the same but with the iRiver clix 2
20:45:13Curtmandomonoky, Okay, that explains why I couldn't find them in the svn repository. ;)
20:45:24domonokyi think only the last delay call in send_cmd() and those on the init call have to stay.
20:47:30JdGordon|its hardly usable in the current state :/
20:48:51domonokyCurtman: see here:
20:49:20domonokyJdGordon|: yes, it still has many issues.. but the basics works.
20:51:10domonokyJdGordon|: and regarding the lyre keypad, i think it should just work, they connect to the same pins as the buttons on board if you use the button connector of the mini.
20:51:13 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
20:51:32domonokyi think the keymaps also makes use of the then possible two additional buttons.
20:52:17JdGordon|ah ok, I think his keypad uses the GPIO's
20:52:35JdGordon|I'll try to find a plug that will fit that connector
20:53:08domonokythey all use GPIOs, it just that this connector uses the same GPIOs as the onboard buttons :-)
20:53:24domonokyor do you mean the GPIO extension connector ?
20:54:19domonokybut even if you connect your buttons to other gpios it should be easy to adapt the code.
20:57:14JdGordon|yeah, the gpio extension conenctor thingy (31 pins or whatver it is)
20:57:41JdGordon|or are those shared also with the onboard buttons?
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21:02:41 Part watto
21:02:43geertvdijkhello all
21:03:46geertvdijkjust a quick question before I file a bug report, I just updated again to the newest revision of rockbox, and it doesn't keep the database, just dropping by to check if I'm doing something wrong
21:03:50domonokyJdGordon|: i am not sure. you have to check the schematic for this... this cpu has many many gpios.
21:04:35domonokygeertvdijk: what do you mean with "it doesnt keep the database" ?
21:05:22CIA-44New commit by tomers (r24285): Fractals: No need to have globals under ctx struct
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21:13:03Horschtregarding my issue yesterday: on a rebuffer, the currently playing song pauses for a second on my Ipod Video 80GB. The issue appears about 2 second after the disc starts spinning. Increasing the antiskip buffer from 5s to 15s does not have any effect
21:13:08kugeldid we freeze now?
21:13:29AlexPkugel: Not quite :)
21:13:37AlexPBut it is imminent!
21:13:56JdGordon|it mostly just needs someone to put a note on the front page and send another email?
21:14:01HorschtSVN r24281
21:14:27kugelso freezy already :(
21:15:00kugelrasher: can you send a call for translators mail?
21:15:21Topic"Now in freeze for upcoming 3.5! | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:15:37AlexPnow the mail...
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21:17:59tomersHey, can I still work on my fractal stuff? I have some more nifty small features I would like to add today
21:18:35tomersI mean, commit... I can always work on that :-)
21:18:37AlexPone week until branch, then another until release right?
21:18:52gevaertsAlexP: that's what I think we should do, yes
21:18:58AlexPThen it is so :)
21:20:15rasherkugel: I can. Unfortunately my web translator thing is broken.
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21:36:17tomersDoes manuals compile? I can't compile the D2's manual
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21:42:51AlexPthe D2 doesn't, no
21:43:44tomersAlexP: Does somebody handle this?
21:43:54AlexPYes, anybody could
21:44:01kugeltomers: we would like to see only bug fix commits
21:44:15AlexPtomers: It looks a fairly obvious error, I'll do so in a minute
21:44:28*tomers One day late with adding color change support to the fractals plugin :-(
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21:45:10tomersAlexP: Thanks. It doesn't look that obvious to me...
21:45:33bertrikI'm seeing only a few actual manuals on the manuals web page
21:45:44AlexPbertrik: That is a different issue
21:45:53AlexPbertrik: i.e. e200 builds fine, but isn't there
21:46:51JdGordon|tomers: in the past we've been more lenient with plugins
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21:50:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:50:33AlexPtomers: What button does the D2 use to charge from USB not go to mass storage when you plug USB?
21:51:47pixelmaif it's like the other Iaudios there isn't such a button but of course, it's a different target
21:52:18AlexPHAVE_USB_POWER is defined for it, so I assume it does
21:52:31tomersAlexP: It doesn't USB at all. It doesn't detect USB. Therefore I _think_ it doesn't have a USB power button
21:52:52AlexPso why is HAVE_USB_POWER defined for it?
21:53:05AlexPin the config file
21:53:13tomersWhat exactly is HAVE_USB_PORT (I can't remember). Is it the detection of USB insertion?
21:53:38AlexPWhere is that from?
21:53:45*JdGordon| thinks that adding that playlist viewer opened up some pretty interesting options for the rest of the code
21:53:45pixelmaPOWER I guess
21:53:47tomersI don't think it charges while in USB (with Rockbox running)
21:54:08gevaertsthen it shouldn't have HAVE_USB_POWER
21:54:17tomerss/HAVE_USB_PORT/HAVE_USB_POWER/ oops
21:54:21*gevaerts isn't sure...
21:54:36AlexPthe manual fails as HAVE_USB_POWER is defined, but there is no \ActionStdUsbCharge button defined
21:55:07AlexPEither it doesn't do USB charging, or it should have a button to let you charge, not do mass storage
21:55:21gevaertsAlexP: it should be BUTTON_MENU
21:55:28AlexPfor the D2?
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21:55:38AlexPOK, I'll stick that in
21:55:39gevaertssee firmware/export/usb.h
21:55:49AlexPI know *nothing* about this port :)
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21:56:43pixelmagevaerts: don't you have a D2 too?
21:56:49tomersgeaverts: I have this player. If I insert USB, then nothing happens and it doesn't even charge. What will happen if I press MENU while connecting? I guess this code is just the foundation for future USB support. Now sure it should go in the manual
21:57:10JdGordon|how does sound?
21:57:15gevaertspixelma: I do, yes
21:57:18*gevaerts will check
21:57:56AlexPgevaerts: Let me know then I'll commit this :)
21:58:29pixelmawell, if it is like tomers describes, there won't be a difference
21:59:07AlexPOh, I missed what he sai
21:59:14pixelmaif nothing happens (Rockbox keeps running as I understand it)
21:59:29AlexPwell, I could nopt the D2
21:59:39AlexPBut commit the button, if that is in the code
22:00:02AlexPAs currently the manual will be wrong, as this part of it is opt'ed on HAVE_USB_POWER
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22:00:47gevaertsit at least detects that there's power
22:02:04*gevaerts lets his D2 sit for a while to give battery voltage a chance to stabilise
22:02:47tomersI will check it too - to verify what I just said
22:04:46gevaertsI actually suspect that we should activate the USB stack on the D2
22:04:51gevaertsi.e. HAVE_USBSTACK
22:04:53tomersWhen I connect the D2, a small USB icon shows at the top
22:04:57gevaertsThat would make these things behave
22:05:01 Quit Zarggg ()
22:05:16tomersbut it still works as usual, playing music etc.
22:05:54tomersIf I press MENU, then it has exactly the same behavior
22:06:01 Quit dys (Remote closed the connection)
22:06:13gevaertsyes, that's because HAVE_USBSTACK is not enabled
22:06:21AlexPgevaerts: So far as the manual goes, I'll commit the button define fix - but do you want me to nopt out the section talking about charging until the stack is enabled?
22:06:55gevaertsAlexP: the D2 is unstable, which means there are issues. We didn't say anywhere that that didn't include manual issues :)
22:07:18AlexPsure, but I could "fix" this for now (for a certain level of fix)
22:07:48gevaertsthen we have to remember to unfix it again later
22:07:58tomersgevaerts: What adding HAVE_USBSTACK will change? We don't have USE_ROCKBOX_USB... So what will it do?
22:08:02 Quit Oxymis ("No Ping reply in 180 seconds.")
22:08:10AlexPthis us a downside
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22:08:25gevaertstomers: it should enable the go-to-OF logic
22:08:35*tomers thought so
22:08:57tomersI actually like the idea of doing so, because it's quite annoying the way it is now
22:09:19tomersIf you plug USB, you want to charge & access files, so that's the right way to go, TMHO
22:09:30AlexPgevaerts: Are you going to pop that in?
22:10:34*gevaerts tests first :)
22:10:53gevaertsI don't want red or yellow!
22:11:07gevaertsthere's no chance of releasing the D2, right?
22:11:07tomersIs it considered a new feature ;-) ?
22:11:18gevaertstomers: not a release target
22:11:43Stephen__can this be done for x5 ?
22:11:53gevaerts"this" being?
22:12:00tomersBut it's in a pretty good shape - it have rbutil support, manual...
22:12:25tomersgevaerts: Setting HAVE_USBSTACK
22:13:24tomersAlexP: But what about all other manuals? Do you know why they fail?
22:13:29AlexPThey don't
22:13:32gevaertsthe x5 uses a hardware usb-ata bridge
22:13:55tomersAlexP: Oh, right... This issue was already discussed today. It's a server issue
22:13:57Stephen__so cant use the charge in rockbox at all ?
22:14:01AlexPtomers: There is something up with the building/getting them onto the site, but they build fine (or at least some, I haven't tested them all)
22:14:42tomersAlexP: The dead 'online' links in the manual page are something that should be fixed. If there's no manual, the link shouldn't appear there
22:15:00AlexPThe bigger issue is that the manuals should be there
22:15:59tomersI need to add some key mapping for the fractals plugin. I could have used the manuals to understand what buttons to use for each target. Too bad they're gone now. I'm not going to compile it all.
22:16:12AlexPthe release manuals are still there
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22:16:20gevaertsStephen__: being able to charge is unrelated to what we're discussing
22:16:47Stephen__right, i was just wondering if it was possible in the x5
22:16:49tomersoh, there's manual/rockbox_interface/images/
22:16:59AlexPalso, the release manuals
22:17:52CIA-44New commit by gevaerts (r24286): Make the tcc usb driver compile without warnings. No functional changes
22:17:54geertvdijksorry for dropping out like that, phone went and it was some bad news
22:18:05gevaertsStephen__: I'm still not entirely understanding what *exactly* you mean
22:18:44gevaertsAlexP: see why testing was needed? :)
22:18:53geertvdijkanyway, Domonoky: at fresh boot it asks me if I want to initiate the database as there isn't anything there, I say 'yeah, do that', reboot, and can use the database. after another reboot it's gone again
22:19:08gevaertsgeertvdijk: reboot how?
22:19:19Stephen__when you plug in the usb into x5 it'll go to usb screen and charge a bit, i want to have the option where you can press a button and charge while still use rockbox like most other targets, e200 for example
22:19:21geertvdijkholding down off and powering on again
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22:19:47tomersgevaerts: How far are we from having USE_ROCKBOX_USB for the D2 (assumes nothing is implemented yet). Do we have a datasheet?>
22:20:30gevaertsStephen__: I'm not sure why that isn't there. I thought it would be...
22:20:38gevaertsgeertvdijk: is the filesystem clean?
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22:20:48Stephen__nope. its one of the few targets that doesnt
22:20:53gevaertstomers: te driver somewhat works, but it's quite buggy
22:20:55Stephen__all my other targets have it
22:21:07 Quit _zic (Remote closed the connection)
22:21:25CIA-44New commit by alex (r24287): Add key define to the D2 manual to allow it to build.
22:22:19geertvdijkgevaerts: AFAIK it is, it was working painlessly with an older revision (240xx or 241xx)
22:22:50 Quit Omlet ("( :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: )")
22:24:13pixelmagevaerts: no, it isn't on the Iaudios, no-one did the work on powermanagement
22:25:40tomersgevaerts: are you about to set HAVE_USBSTACK on D2 now?
22:25:52gevaertstomers: I'm testing that first
22:26:35gevaertsit does *something*
22:27:01*gevaerts suspects that poweroff on usb plugin is not what people want
22:29:16gevaertsapparently the rockbox code doesn't know how to reboot, and if you power the player off while plugged in you have to unplug it before you can power it on again
22:30:01tomersgevaerts: I guess it's a target specific bug, isn't it?
22:30:29gevaertswell yes, I'm talking specifically about the d2
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22:31:33tomersDo we have some sort of datasheet for it (couldn't find it anywhere) or did all the code we got is from reverse engineering the OF?
22:31:37gevaertsah, /* TODO: implement reboot (eg. jump to boot ROM?) */
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22:35:19geertvdijkgevaerts: is there any way I can verify if the FS is still clean? or should I just put an older revision on there and see what it does?
22:35:29gevaertsgeertvdijk: fsck or chkdsk
22:35:41geertvdijkah, okay, could've known that
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22:38:00geertvdijkit did find some issues which I had fixed, rebooting rockbox now
22:39:00geertvdijkloaded DB, rebooting again
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22:39:58geertvdijkgevaerts: DB works like usually, and stays there even after another (couple of) reboots. odd timing of fs breakage then. thanks!
22:40:23gevaertsgeertvdijk: that happens quite often for people :)
22:40:29gevaertsstrange behaviour -> first check the fs
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22:40:52geertvdijkgevaerts: first time for me though, and I get the newest revision quite often :) though I did restructure all the files and folders half a day ago
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22:41:11geertvdijkit's not a sign of my sansa internal storage starting to die though is it?
22:41:47gevaertsI wouldn't expect that, no
22:45:10Horschtregarding my issue yesterday: on a rebuffer, the currently playing song pauses for a second on my Ipod Video 80GB. The issue appears about 2 second after the disc starts spinning. Increasing the antiskip buffer from 5s to 15s does not have any effect. This has been since mid-november/starting december and also occurs on SVN r24281.
22:45:16Horschtshould I make a flyspray about it?
22:46:49gevaertsHorscht: if that happens with official builds, we definitely want a bug report, yes
22:47:51*Horscht goes flyspraying then
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22:59:28CIA-44New commit by Domonoky (r24288): rbutil: add a few qDebug outputs, to better track the install process in BootloaderInstallAms.
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23:01:54kugelHorscht: did it have an effect on the watermark value at least?
23:02:02 Quit Akranis ("Leaving")
23:03:02Horschtthat I didn't check, but I realy don't think it's an "emtpy buffer issue"
23:03:14Horschti can check, though
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23:07:33CIA-44New commit by kugel (r24289): Fix FS #10867 and a few more potential issues by imitate target scrollwheel behavior more (although that behavior is suboptimal imo). Also, default for ...
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23:11:41Horschtkugel, well yes. watermark was 192000 before, now its 720000
23:12:34kugelI assume raising it more doesn't help as well?
23:12:47 Join darkham [0] (
23:12:48kugelit appears to be a lower level issue then
23:13:36kugelyou could observe the buffering debug screen. it should start rebuffering as soon as the lowest of the 3 bars goes below the watermark value
23:14:14 Quit pamaury ("abort();")
23:14:55kugelJdGordon|: there appears to be an issue with toggle_theme()
23:15:08darkhamsansa video issues will be improved in the next 3.5?
23:15:35kugelbackdrop changing should also force clearing the 4 edges
23:15:44kugeldarkham: they're fixed
23:15:50JdGordon|toggle_theme doesnt touch the backdrop yet?
23:15:57JdGordon|or you're working on that?
23:16:11 Quit DerPapst ("Leaving.")
23:16:13darkhamkugel, by when?
23:16:24kugelno, I'm working on fixing dead parts of the main backdrop in the wps
23:16:55kugeldarkham: a few weeks ago
23:17:20JdGordon|kugel: that happens when you have a sbs enabled in the wps? and a backdrop specified in the wps?
23:17:35JdGordon|sbs/ui viewport
23:17:48kugelI think so, yes
23:17:50*JdGordon| menitons something about them being redundant duplication
23:17:56JdGordon|yeah, umm
23:18:19JdGordon|simple fix is to clear the full screen on entering the wps
23:18:22JdGordon|not so nice thoughg
23:18:54gevaertsJdGordon|: as opposed to non-redundant duplication?
23:19:04 Quit lifeless_ ("Ex-Chat")
23:20:26kugelthere's no redundant duplication
23:20:35darkhamkugel, later the r23893-091207 ?
23:20:48kugelit's fixed, man
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23:22:23darkhamkugel, this is the version i have, and i've video issues in fuze, when i scroll menus and i play bubbles
23:23:15darkhambut some in many time
23:23:24kugelso the fix happened in the 300 commits in between
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23:26:10kugelJdGordon: I think clearing is good enough
23:26:15kugelfor now anyway
23:26:38JdGordon|in all honesty I'd rather that bug stayed around.. more incentive to actually fix it
23:26:50JdGordon|I really don't like putting these temp fixes in
23:27:33kugelok, I'll have a look if I can combine this with the plugins problem and fix it within the viewportmanager
23:28:12JdGordon|plugins problem?
23:28:41kugelsbs and plugin menus
23:28:54JdGordon|ah yes, should be all doable together
23:29:00JdGordon|its the same issue after all
23:29:11JdGordon|wait, actually.. no its not
23:29:16 Quit dantje ("Ex-Chat")
23:29:40JdGordon|if the wps isnt useing the full screen, there is a good argument for not allowing it to show a different backdrop
23:29:42kugelwhat I would also like to see to go away is the minor flicker when toggle theme clears the edges
23:30:20kugelexcept that having a different wps backdrop is an awesome feature
23:30:35JdGordon|hardly awesome
23:30:50JdGordon|the playlist viewer is awesome :)
23:30:50kugeland it was fullscreen for ages, but you insisted on changing it
23:30:53JdGordon|%X isnt!
23:31:09JdGordon|what did I insist on changing?
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23:32:04kugelhaving the wps default viewport follow the ui default, instead of being fullscreen
23:32:53JdGordon|yes, and I stand by that change
23:33:09*JdGordon| thinks the whole themeing system is still too convoluted
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23:35:44JdGordon|overall I still think it will be simpler and more undertsandable if the only way to theme is through a .sbs and a .wps
23:37:15JdGordon|being able to move either of them (and backdrops) around really doesnt make much sense
23:37:33JdGordon|the whole thing should be themed so everything works together
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23:38:43JdGordon|but anyway, having a different backdrop does make sense in the wps, unless a sbs is loaded and is not disabled in the wps
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23:41:32b1uebrotherkugel: you spotted the red?
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23:42:06kugelb1uebrother: uh no, thanks
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23:47:51kugelJdGordon|: I don't see how the sbs plays into that
23:48:19JdGordon|"that" weing which part exactly?
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23:50:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:50:32kugelwps backdrop
23:51:37CIA-44New commit by bluebrother (r24290): Add script for generating rbutil translation status overview. ...
23:51:40JdGordon|it's a bit of a strecth to see now because the sbs doesnt load a backdrop. BUT
23:51:55JdGordon|if you have a main backdrop loaded, it works with the sbs right?
23:52:03JdGordon|(if you use sbs or ui viewport)
23:52:18kugeluhm yes (?)
23:52:36JdGordon|and if your wps doesnt use full screen it works with the sbs also
23:52:51JdGordon|therefore, it shuold work with the sbs/main backdrop
23:54:13kugelthe sbs also works with the wps backdrop
23:54:26kugelthe sbs isn't tied to any backdrop
23:54:40JdGordon|which is why I said it was a slight strecth at the start
23:54:51JdGordon|but I want to change that, because it does actually limit the backdrop
23:55:24JdGordon|the sbs *is* tied to a backdrop, whichever is being displayed, which isnt well defined to the users
23:56:18JdGordon|(I only keep pushing this because I really feel the current system is broken)
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23:57:06CIA-44New commit by kugel (r24291): Fix red, moved around a bit to much.
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23:58:36kugelit would probably be nice if the backdrop(s) is skin_buffer'fied even if that means loading backdrops is only possible through skin files

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