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#rockbox log for 2010-01-22

00:05:37 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:09:54pixelmalike a potentially buggy experience due to a bigger change shortly before release? Sorry for sarcasm
00:11:23 Quit TheSphinX^ ("XChat@Linux")
00:14:04 Quit pamaury ("abort();")
00:15:14JdGordon|1) thats what the RC week is for, 2) hiding menu items is impossible to add bugs
00:17:24gevaertshiding menu items can lead to horrible user experience, i.e. bugs
00:17:40gevaertsthe freeze is *not* for making design decisions
00:19:20pixelmaevery code change can add bugs, and one week is a bit short for checking for "new" bugs
00:20:07perfectdrugdoes making SVGs earn me an artist batch in the forums? :D not that I care...just curious hehe
00:21:05TheSevenpixelma: what about fixing that and adding another week of freeze for testing it afterwards, i.e. delay 3.5 for another week?
00:21:07*TheSeven hides
00:21:30gevaertsperfectdrug: I'd expect so. See AlexP or GodEater for practical things
00:21:47JdGordon|TheSeven: well, there are problems doing that...
00:22:13amiconnOption(s) to hide other option(s) is one of the big no-nos
00:22:13AlexPperfectdrug: If they get included in Rockbox, yes - not if you just did some drawings in your spare time :)
00:22:23JdGordon|mostly it would make look like a very big hypocrite :p
00:22:48JdGordon|amiconn: no, you've missed the discussion... its *remove* menu items completly, hiding isnt worth it
00:23:05perfectdrugthere are already some in svn and some others in flyspray:)
00:23:22AlexPthat seems reasonable then :)
00:23:38amiconnCutting functionality? I'm against that
00:24:45AlexPIt isn't functional at the moment, it is far to confusing and complicated
00:24:46TheSevencurring semi-working functionality that was added to 3.5, IIUC
00:24:51perfectdrugAlexP: cool thanks
00:24:51JdGordon|there we go :)
00:24:57AlexPperfectdrug: no worries
00:25:13pixelmaJdGordon|: what's with foreground and background colours in WPS/SBS when viewports there use " - "
00:25:41pixelmaAlexP: it's only confusing if you use both - settings and SBS
00:25:48TheSevenwhat's the issue with moving the release another week? user's won't really care if the release is 4 or 5 weeks late :-P
00:25:49JdGordon|TheSeven actually does have a point though... usb on ipods was held out of the release because they didnt work right.. this is all new
00:26:08JdGordon|pixelma: the setting would have to stay, the ui wuold be gone thuogh
00:26:17AlexPI find the whole damn thing confusing
00:26:18JdGordon|or hidden if we go with that option
00:26:26amiconnIiuc this is about theme settings like colours, fonts etc. That functionality exists for quite some time
00:26:41JdGordon|the confusion comes in with sbs which is new
00:26:49JdGordon|and ui viewport which apparently was in last rel
00:26:58gevaertsJdGordon|: Ok, let's use the usb precedent. You can add or remove *one* define from the config files
00:27:05amiconnThen throw out sbs... </slight sarcasm>
00:27:21*JdGordon| chooses to undefine true and see what happens
00:27:41AlexPIMO we have now got a (near) complete theming system, and only a coherent theme really makes sense
00:27:52*amiconn wonders what confusion it might cause though
00:28:01gevaertsThe USB bits were designed from the start with the knowledge that they might be buggy and therefore had to be optional
00:28:10JdGordon|amiconn: It wouldnt actually be hard to remove the .sbs loading from the release
00:28:27JdGordon|it would cause a bit WTF from users though
00:28:33amiconnIMO the user should have a choice. Use a full-fledged theme, or individual settings
00:28:37AlexPAnyway, I'm off to bed - I'll be happy to argue another day :)
00:28:44amiconnPersonally I prefer the latter, as it's much less work
00:28:48*TheSeven votes to add the HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ define on nano2g then ;-)
00:29:03amiconnAnd that's why I'm against removing the setting
00:29:07gevaertsTheSeven: I don't think the nano2g is a release target :)
00:29:14JdGordon|amiconn: there is a ml thread and a forum thread with where the confusion comes in...
00:29:21pixelmaone of my problem with removing colour settings is that you can only see how the colour really looks like *on target*, not even the sim helps there much. And then there won't be an easy way to try out
00:29:28JdGordon|+ a forum thread to solve the problem
00:30:00pixelmaeven if you say "edit the cfg" - you have to put a hex number there
00:31:36 Quit perfectdrug ("CGI:IRC")
00:32:17pixelmawhich is hard to do on target: edit > apply cfg > still shit > edit > apply > repeat
00:33:09 Join advcomp2019__ [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
00:33:41amiconnIt's also completely unintuitve for a less experienced user
00:34:35 Quit dantje ("Ex-Chat")
00:35:29JdGordon|pixelma: agreed.. which is why I tihnk hiding the options is better than outright removing them
00:35:42JdGordon|hidding behind a setting
00:35:49*amiconn doesn't understand why flexibility should be sacrificed in favour of bling-blong
00:36:10pixelmahow does that help?
00:36:58JdGordon|flexibility wouldnt be removed, and this is for user experience, not bling bling
00:37:18JdGordon|it means, if you enable the advanced options you understand how they all work
00:37:50pixelmawell then you could start hiding lots of other settings, equalisers whatnot. Where do you draw the line?
00:38:06JdGordon|you dont?
00:38:10JdGordon|(draw the line)
00:38:48*gevaerts does not understand how one single person can send an email to ask if anyone has objections to starting the freeze, and then be the first to want to break the freeze
00:38:55JdGordon|oh wait, but no thats customisable options which heaven forbid ever would be allowed
00:39:11JdGordon|gevaerts: :)
00:39:17gevaertsJdGordon|: that was not meant as a joke
00:39:51JdGordon|mind you, I dont see this as being against the spirit of the freeze
00:39:51pixelmaJdGordon|: huh? That would mean to me hiding all "advanced" settings whether there are audio or theme settings - or not hiding anything...
00:40:11JdGordon|one for each group?
00:41:30TheSevenand one global setting to hide all those "enable advanced settings" settings? :-P
00:42:51pixelmaby the way - about the original SBS question. I think the SBS should not be able to set a fullscreen backdrop as it doesn't take the the whole screen (to me it would be logical if the most it could do is setting a backdrop for itself)
00:43:25pixelmaJdGordon|: and I don't understand your last question
00:43:30 Quit AndChat| (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:44:00JdGordon|I disagree because its a bit silly to think a sbs isnt made to work with specific backdrops, and hard limiting that tag might not be doable anyway
00:44:05JdGordon|which last question?
00:44:49 Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:44:53pixelmabut then this backdrop is a global thing (as this is where the sbs is shown)
00:45:40JdGordon|yes, which prompted the question to begin with
00:45:47JdGordon|whatver we do doesnt really make sense
00:45:53 Nick alexbobp_ is now known as alexbobp (n=alex@
00:47:31pixelmato me "backdrop: blah.bmp" and "sbs:" makes the most sense
00:49:46JdGordon|but the sbs specifies the backdrop as well with %X|backdrop.bmp|
00:50:36 Quit advcomp2019_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:51:27pixelmanot mine, and as I said, I don't see why it should
00:51:50pixelmato be precise: I don't use a backdrop at all
00:53:22JdGordon|in which case I still think option 2 from the thread makes the most sense. if you dont want a backdrop you would clear the backdrop setting which would then make the sbs's backdrop be ignored
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00:54:17 Part stooo
00:55:49JdGordon|I really dont want to add extra checking to make sure the sbs doesnt try to load a backdrop, because that becomes a mess under the hood
00:56:11JdGordon|my local tree is incredibly clean compared to svn thanks to this extra confusion
00:57:23pixelmasounds illogical to me - unless clearing that setting would also clear the WPS backdrop - if you still compare SBSs and WPSs
00:58:50JdGordon|it is illogical and if we were starting from scratch it wouldnt have been done like this
00:59:55pixelmaconfusion probably starts with the fact that the backdrop is a fullscreen thing, the SBS is not, but the WPS is and there it makes more sense if it is possibke to "overrule" the menu backdrop
01:00:19JdGordon|I'll accept that
01:00:28JdGordon|although I dont see the sbs as not being full screen
01:01:44JdGordon|if the backdrop is done the same way as colours, then the skin backdrop should always take priority, which also makes sense
01:02:28 Part froggyman
01:03:13pixelmayou specify the rectangle the SBS can use. And if you want to see a bit of the list you are in it will be smaller than the full screen. If a backdrop should go along with it, it is a theme setting to me
01:03:55JdGordon|no, in the sbs you specify the rectangle the UI should use, the sbs in theory has control over the rest of the screen
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01:05:12pixelmawell yes, that still defines the space it can use and it's not the complete screen
01:06:48JdGordon|it depends which target you are thinking about, on small screens then yes the sbs could be considered a minor part of the screen, but big screens would not limit the sbs to just one section
01:08:58pixelma? There still must be some place for the menu/browser
01:09:17JdGordon|yes, but thats not nessecarily the biggest part of the screen
01:09:47JdGordon|the sbs might use 3/4 of the screen (if you're crazy :p )
01:10:32pixelmaI didn't say anything about parts - I just said "fullscreen" or "not fullscreen" which is clearly defined IMO
01:11:00JdGordon|ok, think of it this way.. the UI is nothing more than a widget inside the sbs
01:11:07JdGordon|like the progressbar
01:12:38JdGordon|in that case the sbs does actually use the whole screen
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01:15:52pixelmathat makes some sense but only if explained :\ the casual user won't understand that and I didn't see it this way so far too
01:17:30JdGordon|thinking about it more, I think the settings should always be fallback values, (this gets tricky with wps + sbs + backdrop though), that would make everything work like colours
01:18:01JdGordon|except the bloody ui viewport works in reverse almost, the sbs %Vi shuold overwrite the setting one if its set, not merge them
01:20:32pixelmawith the SBS being able to show everything a WPS does, the difference between them get very very very very blurry - if the WPS was able to show the menu there would be no difference at all, or?
01:21:51JdGordon|apaprt from button handling
01:22:19pixelmajust wanted to add "except controls"
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01:27:27*JdGordon| just wants the code to be clean :(
01:30:31pixelmawell, I didn't have the impression that the cleanup has to go along with removing settings :\
01:30:50JdGordon|no, i've given up there
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01:51:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:51:34pixelmaI somehow think that "custom statusbar" is a wrong name then and should rather be something like "list screen" or so
01:52:14JdGordon|I cant argue against that
01:52:32JdGordon|"main skin" or something
01:53:00JdGordon|the statusbar option should then be "top, bottom, skin, off"
01:53:30JdGordon|THAT is a change which shold happen before release though, if it does
01:58:58*pixelma holds off with the German update then :P
01:59:23JdGordon|well, this is the first release with sbs, so we should get the name right now, or it wont ever happen
01:59:28pixelmaseriously though, I don't think this change could be called a bugfix either
01:59:42JdGordon|I dont really know what a better name is
01:59:59JdGordon|the idea of the freeze is not only for bugfixes, its so new stuff doesnt go in
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03:39:09mc2739funman: I have made 1.0 bootloaders and will get them to bagder
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03:51:15saratogaI'm finally going to commit uchida's PCM library rework after the feature freeze
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03:53:07soapJdGordon, in your mailing list proposal - what happens if:
03:53:12soap1 - a user loads a theme.
03:54:17soapscratch that - I think I follow now. nevermind ;)
03:54:27saratogawe should drop all those weird theme settings anyway
03:54:35saratogathey're complicated and IMO not worth having
03:54:43saratogaplus we'd save memory!
03:56:08saratogacan someone look at FS #10020 - Patch that can be restart on the way
03:56:17saratogaI don't know sh well enough to say if its a good idea
03:56:23saratogabut it would be nice to either commit or reject it
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04:52:02*Strife89 would like to ask about the status of the Sansa AMS USB driver.
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04:53:39saratogai don't think much at all has been done to it
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04:54:25Strife89I see.... No documentation. :/
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04:55:15JdGordonsaratoga: well... I can still see some benefit to keeping the settings...
04:55:20JdGordonsoap: you firgured it out?
04:59:52soapyea - I was in the process of writing out the question, and in doing so I realized how stupid the question was.
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05:09:28n1sJdGordon: to me the most confusing thing about the theme stuff now is that a thing called StatusBar skin controlls a lot more than a statusbar and overrides stuff etc.
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05:37:05JdGordonn1s: agreed... it needs a better name
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05:55:29JdGordonhmm.. how likely is it that someone is going to have a backdrop in the menus but not want it in the wps?
05:56:45n1sdepends a lot on the wps and the backdrop
05:57:52JdGordonso should I make it fallback the same way as colours? so the wps would only show the backdrop from the settings if there is a %X|-| line?
06:00:42JdGordonthe alternative is always getting the setting backdrop if %X isnt specified or found, which measn you have to use a sbs if you want to do the above
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06:40:05JdGordonwooo! garbled main backdrop!
06:42:41LloreanWhat are you trying to change?
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06:48:03JdGordonhow do you know that wasnt my intention? :)
06:49:51S_a_i_n_t_if it was...good job!
06:50:05S_a_i_n_t_it looks...retro :D
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07:05:46JdGordonthat was alot simpler that I thought! backdrops are now in the skin buffer in my tree
07:07:10JdGordonSkin buffer usage: 176644/258384
07:07:13JdGordonplenty of room spare
07:16:54JdGordonthats cabbiev2 usage at default settings on e200
07:17:45pixelmasaratoga: what is complicated about the settings that are in a menu? To me the things that adds most of the confusion are SBS (and WPS to some extent) that add "hidden" ways to control the look. This won't go away with removing the menus (it's not removing the setting, they'll be there in the cfg still)
07:18:20saratogai don't really see why we need to have theme options accessible in rockbox
07:18:29saratogait seems like something that should be handled on a computer
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07:28:36JdGordonwhat should happen if "clear backdrop" or loading a bmp for the backdrop (in the file browser) happens when the main backdrop comes from a .sbs file and not the setting?
07:29:02JdGordongoing by the "settings should only be used as a fallback" moto I'd say nothing... but?
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07:33:30pixelmasaratoga: that doesn't answer my question, just states another opinion without really giving reasons. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to discuss now but about your last points: IMO hidden settings are even worse (and there once was an agreement about not having those), when making a theme you need to be able to easily adjust settings on target as there's often a big difference between look on your monitor and on the real target (yes, even
07:33:30pixelma the sim), and there are some themes that allow a bit of "personalisation" with colours or a differnt background or another font (which is possible almost everywhere) and without a menu, changing those is a PITA
07:34:29saratogaalong this reasoning, wouldn't all themes be hidden settings? you can't really compose a WPS from the menus
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07:36:06pixelmathat's not a reason to hide more of it
07:36:48pixelmaespecially if the settings are still there and can easily be adjusted through a menu, WPSs can't
07:37:14pixelmait's not a settings
07:37:24*JdGordon decides to unconditionally load/clear the backdrop, the correct one will load next time settings are applied
07:40:24pixelmaJdGordon: "nothing" about your last question too - "clear backdrop" wouldn't have an effect on a WPS backdrop defined through %X either. It might be worth thinking about a way to notify the user why he doesn't see an effect. But then you would have the same effects with colours if someone uses an SBS which defines its own colours (even now already)
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07:41:23JdGordonthe problem is there is no way to know (without messy tricks) where the backdrop actually came from at this point
07:41:58JdGordonI'm trying to avoid setting the filename in the setting and reloading the entire theme
07:42:15JdGordonwhich is how changing colours work now
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08:42:13*JdGordon wishes you could do a build without rebuilding the lang files
08:42:18JdGordonthey are too damn slow
08:44:45nlsJdGordon: rewrite genlang in c!
08:46:02GodEaterawesome - I'm managing to databort quite consistently now!
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08:47:59GodEatercan someone remind me how I find the function it's falling over in from the map file?
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08:48:43JdGordondo a search in the map file for the first bunch of numbers from the abort
08:48:54JdGordonthen keep narroing it down to the closest number
08:49:00GodEateryep, found it
08:49:23GodEaterit's in strlen apparently
08:49:51TheSevenhm, probably a bad pointer getting passed to it?
08:50:05TheSevenhaving a stack dump would be helpful now
08:50:28GodEaterthe abort is at 40006d20, and the address of strlen in the map file is 4006ca4
08:50:40GodEatercan we get rockbox to do those?
08:50:59GodEater(insert an extra zero into that strlen address by the way, it's a typo)
08:53:54TheSevencan you see which address was tried to be accessed?
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08:54:23GodEaterthe message you get in the crash is just "Data abort at 40006d20"
08:54:25GodEaterthat's it
08:55:32TheSevenoh well, some more information would be really helpful, like a reg+stack dump
08:55:55TheSeveni think screen space would be the limiting factor for debug information here
08:56:15GodEaterthere's no lack of that on this device (ipod video)
08:56:30GodEaterbut I understand the reason we have such terse crash messages is for targets where that isn't the case
08:56:50TheSevenwell, a full-blown dump won't fit even on an ipod video's display
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08:58:06GodEaterno, but there's quite a bit more room for *something* extra :)
08:58:16TheSevenwell, try adding it ;-)
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08:59:35JdGordonhow did you get it?
08:59:47nlswouldn't about the only way for strlen to data abort be an invalid pointer?
09:00:21GodEaterJdGordon: using the database browser with a custom tagnavi
09:00:33JdGordontry it in the sim
09:00:37JdGordonor pass it here
09:01:11topikdon't know if you have any reports on the updated mkamsboot with the V1 fuze newly released OF, but it works fine here. smooth as usual.
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09:01:24GodEaterJdGordon: it's bascule's tagnavi from the wiki (, with one modification (let me dig that out for you).
09:02:43GodEateryou change the definition for "f_direct" to this : %format "f_direct" "%010s %02d - %s %s" album tracknum title artist %strip = "10"
09:02:54GodEaterthen open the database, choose "All tracks"
09:02:59GodEaterand on my DAP at least, bang.
09:03:06JdGordonok.. building the db first
09:03:18Unhelpfulnls: if it's coded correctly... since bytes can have arbitrary alignment it obviously needs to count bytes until aligned before it can do any word-at-a-time trickery... so either 1) you found a bug in strlen 2) something is calling it with a pointer to nowhere, i would think
09:04:13JdGordonoh hmm... you cant repro data aborts in the sim :/
09:04:44mc2739topik: thanks for the report
09:05:00nlsJdGordon: an invalid pointer may well segfault the sim
09:05:05UnhelpfulJdGordon: not unless you want to rewrite the sim to use qemu
09:05:15JdGordonpass :)
09:05:25Unhelpfulnls: will on most modern PCs, unless its into the program's own readable memory
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09:06:06nlsyeah, (and i really do hope we don't have a buggy strlen :)
09:06:11UnhelpfulJdGordon: but, you could also verify the correctness of platform asm on your pc, too, then. but, yeah, i don't think anybody wants to *do* it.
09:07:40pixelmaGodEater: what does the %010s mean there?
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09:09:17pixelmaif the crash also happens without this modification might be interesting too
09:11:18GodEaterpixelma: the %010 is supposed to limit/pad the first string to 10 characters, so that the %strip at the end has a consistent amount of characters to work with
09:11:28GodEaterthe crash doesn't happen with bascule's original
09:12:04GodEateressentially what I was trying to acheive was a list of all tracks on the DAP, sorted by album first, but not actually display the album in the list.
09:12:20GodEaterif you can think of another way to do it, I'm all ears (this was to help someone out in the forums btw).
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09:19:43pixelmawell I remember trying something similar to get my albums sorted chronologically and couldn't get it to work (but that's ages ago). Since then there were a few threads even with posts of people who know more about the database's internals that this isn't possible (what I wanted) but I wouldn't be surprised if yours wouldn't work too
09:20:04GodEatermy doesn't work spectacularly badly ;)
09:20:50GodEaterI still think we'd be better off with sqllite, no matter what the binary penalty is. Our system is so freaking arcane and unwieldy.
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09:22:15pixelmait would make no difference to me since I don't know sqlite either
09:22:45GodEaterpixelma: but it would allow you to use SQL to generate your music lists, and SQL is a well understood way to make lists of data.
09:22:55GodEaterpixelma: I'm pretty sure you'd get the hang of it quickly
09:23:08pixelmaI mean this in a sense of "the casual user needs to learn either"
09:23:47GodEaterI realise that, but I think SQL is closer to natural language for finding things than our tagcache syntax
09:24:11GodEaterI mean, I'm a freaking geek, and *I* find our tagcache system bloody infuriating.
09:24:40GodEaterno disrespect to Slasheri and co, but god damn.
09:25:21*Unhelpful wonders if sqlite would *perform* decently, though... and would readily support loading the entire DB to RAM, or caching parts of it on access...
09:25:33GodEaterthose are good questions
09:26:03pixelmabut you knew sqlite before
09:26:18pixelmaI assume...
09:26:21GodEaterpixelma: no, I knew sql before
09:26:27GodEatersqllite is just an implementation
09:27:06GodEaterand I take your point, but I've been looking at our tagcache syntax since 2006 and I *still* need to go a re-read the wiki page every time I want to use it
09:28:13UnhelpfulGodEater: also iirc squlite has some very odd design choices, such as everything-is-a-string. storing ints as strings will be hugely wasteful :/
09:28:26GodEaterI was not aware of that.
09:28:45*GodEater is open to other embedded sql implementations as suggestions
09:29:52Unhelpful :/
09:30:53Unhelpfulthis could also be trouble for us:
09:30:55GodEaterthat is a very peculiar design choice
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09:31:44UnhelpfulGodEater: not if you come from tcl ;)
09:31:57GodEaterI didn't. Which country is that in? :)
09:32:28Unhelpfulthe one horrid languages come from, i believe ;)
09:32:37Bagderthat'd be in the land of the early 90s ;-)
09:32:40GodEaterFrance? :)
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09:37:33LinusNi fear that it might be hard to squeeze a general purpose database engine into rockbox with acceptable performance and memory footprint, especially without dynamic memory allocation
09:38:14GodEaterLinusN: that's why we have MoB these days ;)
09:38:57Bagderperhaps if we say it is impossible, it'll motivate someone to really prove it that it can be done?
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09:39:34GodEaterBagder: I think that's an excellent idea
09:39:46nlscan't the tagnavi syntax de redone in a saner way without ripping out the entire database?
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09:40:15Unhelpfulnls: yes, but maybe we should consider whether the db itself could be saner, as well?
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09:40:49nlsof course
09:41:55LinusNbtw, are there any other issues with it? I mean, does it do everything that we want?
09:42:46UnhelpfulLinusN: caching could possibly be better - hence my questions about same in sqlite
09:43:16GodEaterLinusN: well, it's making my DAP data abort currently
09:43:21GodEaterwhich is why it came up this morning
09:43:31GodEaterI don't *think* what I'm trying to make it do is too insane
09:43:54GodEatersee logs from about 50 minutes ago for details
09:44:09UnhelpfulGodEater: yes, but you want sql so that you can do select x, y, z sorted by w, basically...
09:44:14GodEater(assuming you're talking about our current implementation)
09:44:20GodEaterUnhelpful: yes
09:44:40GodEaterI'm not too fussed about triggers and stored procedures ;)
09:45:07Unhelpfuli'm not too happy with sqlite's ideas about datatypes, though
09:45:21GodEaterfix it!
09:45:59nlsthere is fs#8852 so it has come up before
09:46:14Unhelpfuli refuse to touch anything that intimately connected to tcl. it's a matter of principle. ;)
09:47:16GodEaterthat patch also raises an interesting point, which is that I think the database *should* be a plugin
09:48:25GodEaterI think the key thing to recognise about any sql implementation for rockbox would be that you're only really concerned with the bits of the SQL language to do with getting the data out in some format.
09:48:36UnhelpfulGodEater: the browser, maybe. things in core can use the DB itself, though, can't they?
09:48:55LinusNi'd like the database to be part of the core
09:48:58GodEaterthe "tables" would have a fixed format, and so you wouldn't necessarily need all the "INSERT" things
09:49:07GodEaterUnhelpful: yes sorry, I meant the browser.
09:49:23UnhelpfulGodEater: which means that we still need to think about the binary size of the DB runtime itself
09:49:43nlsGodEater: why should the browser be a plugin?
09:49:47LinusNi think the browser should be part of the core as well. after all, browsing and playing music is what rockbox is all about
09:49:49*GodEater proposes binning all this themeing nonsense so we can get back all that lovely RAM
09:50:12GodEaterLinusN: yet pictureflow is a plugin
09:50:18GodEaterand that's effectively a database browser
09:50:24LinusNGodEater: unfortunately yes
09:50:48GodEaterpixelma: what was that "no" directed at
09:51:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:51:28LinusNshe's just grumpy :-)
09:52:36pixelmaGodEater: about your original question - did you try without the %strip option (I wonder when it is applied to the sort string, Other than that I could only suggest to get roolku's attention, he seems to know the database code well too and is a tad bit more often around
09:52:57pixelmathe "no" was referring to "theming nonsense"
09:52:58GodEateroh right
09:54:20Unhelpfulmight as well make the wps a plugin too... then we could support greylib and AA on mono targets ;)
09:58:30GodEaterpixelma: well, removing the %strip certainly stops the crash
09:58:46GodEaterhowever it just proves I have no idea (once again) how the formatting tag actually works, since it's not sorted at all.
10:00:25GodEaterThe wiki page about the database truly is dreadful.
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10:03:01Unhelpfulsurely we support a separate sorting tag?
10:03:10GodEaternot that I can see
10:03:20GodEaterbut it's hard to tell *because* the wiki page is so bad
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10:03:32GodEaterthe only way to work it out is to look at the code I guess
10:03:36GodEaterand I don't have time this morning
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10:08:30pixelmaas far as I know we don't support sorting tags. There is/was a patch in the tracker for this but last I heard it has it quirks too or so
10:08:59GodEaterimo we bloody need them though
10:09:07GodEaterbecause the format tag *doesn't* sort correctly
10:09:42*Unhelpful wonders what *is* being used to sort, then...
10:10:26Unhelpfulit doesn't come with a query language, but what about berkeley db or gdbm?
10:12:12Slasheriif format tag is used, the tag browser should use always sorting when possible (it could be that the buffer space allocated with max files in a dir is reached)
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10:34:07GodEaterSlasheri: the database wiki page seems to suggest (but doesn't say explicitly) that the formatting tag sorts only on numeric tags. Is this true?
10:36:54gevaertsGodEater: "no matter what the binary penalty is"? The Sqlite binsize/ramsize cost basically would mean dropping database support on all lowmem targets
10:37:25GodEatertwo implementations then?
10:37:46GodEaterthough as I said, I'm open to other suggestions
10:39:55gevaertsif extra the cost was, say, 50K or so, I'd be all for an SQL system. Currently it's 350 or more though
10:40:25GodEateryes, I can see that from safetydan's post on the patch
10:42:14gevaertsThere may also be some other issues, such as the required RAM depending on which particular queries you run. Not necessarily a blocker, but it could be annoying
10:42:49Unhelpfuland anything we want to port from the pc world is going to expect malloc/free. "embedded" for databases means something different than it does for rockbox ;)
10:42:52GodEaterI guess I'm just frustrated by the rather horrible syntax we have currently for querying the database, and the lack of docs
10:43:16gevaertsUnhelpful: yes and no. Sqlite knows this, so it has its own malloc if needed :)
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10:44:54Unhelpfulgevaerts: that's lovely, but malloc semantics are really not appropriate for some of our targets, as we don't have the ability to remap memory everywhere (and therefore to compact the allocated space to consolidate free space). also we don't support that even on targets which *could*.
10:45:57gevaertsUnhelpful: for the built-in malloc, you just tell it (at compile time) how much it can use, and it links in a big char array
10:46:36Unhelpfulif you can't remap memory to move user data around, a handle-based allocator is more appropriate imo... something like our audio buffer or the more generic buflib for plugins.
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10:47:53gevaertsmaybe they actually do that. I haven't checked the details
10:48:06gevaertsit's also gaes ago :)
10:48:59*Unhelpful has some ideas about making the buffer more like buflib...
10:49:07Unhelpfulbut i have ideas about lots of things i never do ;)
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11:06:31amiconnGodEater: Forget sqlite. It's not as 'lite' as its name suggests
11:06:58amiconnIirc binary size of a (minimal) sqlite is about the same as the whole rockbox binary
11:12:36gevaertsonly if you don't count bitmaps :)
11:13:46gevaertsif we only cared about 16MB+ targets, I think we could consider it, but that's really not an option
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11:53:13funmanmc2739: we should test the bootloaders before providing them for download
11:54:41funmanmc2739: before adding a new OF to mkamsboot checksums we should check if it runs fine, not only if it patches fine (the aim is not to brick devices, mkamsboot would just not produce a file if it couldn't patch an OF)
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12:34:26tomersgevaerts: ping
12:34:53Kitr88 blocles game
12:39:01UnhelpfulKitr88: this channel is for talk about rockbox... do read the guidelines mentioned in the topic :)
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12:51:43tomersok, I'm talking for the record here, hoping gevaerts and others will read it later: I've located the place where the USB issue that affects arc controllers is happening. The issue is that transfer (bulk traffic of the mass storage driver) might stop when HID traffic (interrupt transfer of the hid driver) is sent during files transfer. I've noticed that in prime_transfer(), line 753, the line...
12:51:44tomers...'endpoint completed fast' is printed only once, and immediately after the transfer stops. I guess that is a case that never happened until the hid was introduced, so it was never tested, or it broke a long time ago :-)
12:52:08tomersI have some recording I made using a USB analyzer, but that doesn't add much
12:53:18tomersNow I need to read the driver's datasheet. I use to have it some time ago, but it'll take me some time to find it. If anyone got it, please let me know... The manual
12:54:33tomersThe prime_transfer() has the following comment in it's header: /* manual: */, so if you find the pdf, please send it over. thanks again
12:57:36tomersit seems that no usb driver (mass storage, hid) checks return function of usb_drv_send*/usb_drv_recv...
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13:37:47gevaertstomers: you're right that nobody checks the return value, but I'm not sure what those functions could do about it
13:38:44gevaertstomers: can you do dcc? I can send you the datasheet
13:38:54tomersyes. please do
13:39:25gevaerts14MB on its way :)
13:39:40tomersit seems that the transfer is done correctly, but some how nobody continues it as it should
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13:40:59tomersthe hid interrupt transfer gets priority, but it makes the bulk transfer not continue the transaction.
13:45:41geertvdijkhello all :)
13:46:53geertvdijkI just noticed a bug I've been having lately, don't know if it's been around longer though; every now and then when I exit a plugin, I can't navigate without first pressing 'ENTER' (middle button on e200). otherwise the spinning-wheel input is not noticed. is this known? couldn't find it in FS yet
13:47:16gevaertsit's called "select" :)
13:47:24tomersgeertvdijk: hi there :-) It is a well known bug
13:47:46geertvdijktomers: ok, my bad then. I'll work on my fs-searching skills then
13:47:56gevaertsit's so well known in fact that I'm not sure if there's a proper bug report for it...
13:48:35geertvdijkah, I see. should I make one? or are there no plans to work this one out?
13:48:43tomersgevaerts: I think it was discussed over and over again. I think someone tried to fix that recently, but nothing came out of it...
13:50:35*tomers Can't find the bug either
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13:51:19gevaertsgeertvdijk: I can't find it either. Please submit a report, I think we're better off with a risk of two duplicate reports than with none at all
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13:51:34geertvdijkgevaerts: Okay, I will. thanks :)
13:52:21mc2739geertvdijk: see FS #10097
13:52:47gevaertsoh, well done!
13:53:32*gevaerts was searching for "button", not "key"
13:53:41geertvdijkmc2739: ah, I'll stop then ^^
13:56:12*tomers searched 'plugin exit'. Not 'exiting plugins', which should catch FS #10097, but only catches 3 other items, but not the item that is called "FS #10097 - Sometimes keys do not work after exiting plugins". What a great search engine :-)
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17:27:22funmandomonoky: when i launch rbutilqt, the "configuration is invalid" and configuration dialog are opened 2 times
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17:33:24funmandomonoky: system trace on (my sansaclip was not plugged and not mounted)
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17:43:55ZambeziI'm afraid my iPod Mini 2G won't last for much longer. Can you recommend a player which supports memorycard? With hack like my iPod or a slot which I think Sansa E200 v1 does, but it's hard to find new (only rebubrished).
17:44:32ZambeziRockbox supported of course.
17:44:41evilnickZambezi: The e200 v2 players are very close to being supported, and they don't have the electrical interference of the v1 models
17:44:53funmanif you can find a fuzev1 (hard to find) or e2OOv2 (less hard) they should be supported soon in the next release
17:47:53Zambezievilnick, funman: Sounds lovely. I just need another memorycard, but I can live with that.
17:48:38flyback<flyback> m$ released the msie patch today
17:48:38flyback<flyback> install it asap
17:49:02gevaertsflyback: how is that on-topic here?
17:49:55flybackit's not
17:50:03flybackbut this is a really shitty bug so :P
17:50:19flybackif you don't like it, kick me out
17:50:20gevaertsWe do have rules here, you know about them. Please follow them
17:50:22flybackI don't care anyumore
17:50:32Mode"#rockbox +o gevaerts " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
17:50:34flybackm going to either croak or off myself in the near future anyways
17:50:46flybackso have fun, wasteing your time
17:51:13Zambezievilnick: Sansa E200 equal E250/E260/E270/E280?
17:51:27evilnickZambezi: Yes
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17:52:53Kick(#rockbox flyback :gevaerts) by gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
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17:59:14saratogahas anyone looked at FS #9990 and related text editor patches?
17:59:25saratogai've never used the text editor in rockbox but they sound like they might be good to have
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19:14:35gevaertsJdGordon: I think I'm going to go through flyspray again tonight. The last pass was a month ago, so we should be able to close a lot
19:14:51JdGordonsounds good
19:15:08*gevaerts wants a "next" button in flyspray
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19:51:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:01:10natriusanyone here to answer a question?
20:01:48 Join The_Seven [0] (n=theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
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20:02:23natriusa lot of guys online but no one can answer a question?
20:03:26 Quit robin0800_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:03:36*TheSeven|Mobile missed the question, so he can't answer it :-(
20:03:49krazykitnatrius, no one can answer a question that isn't asked
20:03:58natriusdthats right
20:04:09natriusat first i just asked if someones here.
20:04:15natriusthe question:
20:04:18natriusi bought an archos2
20:04:34 Quit Tomis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:04:35 Nick Tomis2 is now known as Tomis (n=Tomis@
20:04:35natriusand i was reading on the german wikipedia that rockbox can be used on every archos.
20:04:53krazykitthen the german wiki entry is incorrect. only the models listed on the front page work
20:04:56natriusso, its possible to use it with my archos2, or its better not to try...
20:05:12natriusah, okay....
20:05:48krazykitbut if you could edit wikipedia to reflect that, it would help other people who might be confused about that too :)
20:05:53natriusi thought this already.
20:06:01natriusi will ^^
20:06:30natriusother question, my brother has a gmini202(s?x? don't know)
20:06:47natriusrockbox is not possible on it too, or?
20:06:57B4gdernatrius: is it listed on the front page?
20:07:09 Quit AndyIL (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:07:49natriusokay, simple... right
20:08:02TheSeven|MobileB4gder: I wouldn't call it impossible, just "nobody did all the hard work yet"
20:08:21 Join GodEater_ [0] (n=goddeate@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
20:08:39B4gderI didn't call it impossible, as someone once did quite a lot of gmini work
20:08:57natriusi was reading about an other project
20:09:02 Join JdGordon [0] (i=1816d253@gateway/web/freenode/x-wcysoctwfomdltwo)
20:09:44 Quit GodEater_ (Client Quit)
20:09:51natriusbut i asked the second question cause i was still irritated cause of the german wiki entry (i do already think, how its good to change it correct)
20:12:46natriusbut thank you
20:12:51natriusfor answer my questions
20:14:19 Join efyx_ [0] (
20:14:45 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:15:25natriusouh, now i do have another question XD
20:15:55saratogaif you want to ask a question, just do it
20:16:02saratogano one cares that you have a question if you don't ask it
20:16:05natriusi do search a player just for listening mp3. nothing else. long battery charge and lots of music
20:16:30natriusdo you advise a player?
20:16:57TheSeven|Mobilea good mp3 player in general, or one that runs rockbox?
20:17:19natriusouh, sorry. if possible also one player that runs rockbox
20:19:31natriusthere are a lot... but which of these players would you advise?
20:20:20 Quit fyrestorm ("Ur skills' fireproof like a wooden panel -- U got feds talking leet on your IRC channel!")
20:20:35TheSeven|Mobilesomeone with a better overview should answer that
20:20:44*TheSeven|Mobile only knows ipods
20:20:54 Part froggyman
20:22:53gevaerts is a good start, but it misses some of the more recent ports
20:24:16natriusah okay, thank you
20:24:21natriusdidn't noticed that
20:24:36natriusbtw. excuse my bad english XD better at talking, not at writing
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20:34:33natriuson the german wiki are the iaudio also listed, but not at the english wiki
20:35:17gevaertsgerman wiki?
20:35:20gevaertsoh, wikipedia?
20:36:50natriusi'm adding now cowon and deleting the wrong information at the german wikipedia. just thinking now about the iAudio...
20:38:18 Join martian67 [0] (n=martian6@about/linux/regular/martian67)
20:40:10natriusshould i now delete the iaudio entry?
20:40:34 Join tchan1 [0] (
20:40:47natriusah damn....
20:40:48natriusgot it now
20:40:59natriusiAudio is from Cowon, right?
20:41:28gevaertsPossibly. Or possibly the other way round :)
20:42:42 Nick TheSeven|Mobile is now known as klickbot (n=theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
20:42:48gevaertsThey seem to be brands from the same company anyway
20:43:00natriusif i look at the buyers guide the make is cowon and model is iaudio
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20:52:11natriusgerman wikipedia little bit changed, hope now its not confusing anymore
20:52:13natriusagain thanks for your help
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20:58:23gevaertsJdGordon: there's something weird. I'm finding bug reports with the reported saying that they're fixed about a year ago...
20:58:30gevaertsWhy didn't we close those already?
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21:07:20gevaertstomers: have a look at FS #10319. It's at least related to the bug ypu
21:07:26gevaerts*you're looking at
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21:17:17 Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
21:23:03FlynDiceI'm looking for a link to the s3c2440 datasheet (gigabeat f/x) and can't find one in the wiki, is it just me....? If not, I'll find it in the wild and replace it. It's a great reference for arm asm.....
21:24:04phanboy4Are there any known issues with installing Rockbox over the new Fuze V1 firmware released 2 days ago? (1.02.31)
21:24:22gevaertsphanboy4: I'm not sure if anyone has tried it yet.
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21:24:36phanboy4Could it potetially matter?
21:24:42FlynDiceI think topik reported it worked fine
21:25:13gevaertsI don't know. If fuze firmware updates fail, you're looking at a brick IIRC, so if it hasn't been tested yet...
21:25:30phanboy4OK, thanks, I'll wait on it then.
21:25:32gevaertsFlynDice: any idea when?
21:25:44FlynDicelooking right now
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21:26:37 Nick Tomis2 is now known as Tomis (n=Tomis@
21:28:15FlynDicedomonoky: Thanks! I knew I got is somewhere in there...
21:31:08FlynDicetopik reporting on new fuze OF & mkamsboot −−>
21:31:42gevaertsok, that's clear
21:31:54gevaertsphanboy4: that's your answer I guess :)
21:33:06phanboy4Ok, thanks.
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21:38:09gevaertsZagor: do we still need FS #9584?
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21:41:44Zagorgevaerts: no, close it
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21:45:17littlewookie:) hi
21:45:25littlewookieI have a Dream! :D
21:45:59Zagorhtc dream?
21:46:18JdGordongevaerts: because noone really keeps an eye on the tracker enough
21:46:22 Join Strife89 [0] (
21:46:26littlewookiei know it is a little bit crazy, but i got a cowon d2+ which has an fm reciever, and i got a fm transmitter, how a bout modulate key input with the soundcard and interpret them with rockbox
21:46:45gevaertsJdGordon: yes, but we both went over it a month ago
21:46:47littlewookieZagor: funnily yes
21:48:04domonokyZagor: can you update www from svn ? i commited a small addition to the daily build-info file.
21:48:53*gevaerts points bertrik to FS #8816
21:49:04Zagordomonoky: done
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21:51:35littlewookiewhat do you think about that?
21:51:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:51:43bertrikI don't of anything that could have fixed FS #8816
21:51:55bertrikand I haven't looked into it myself
21:51:59gevaertslittlewookie: to be honest, I don't understand what you mean actually
21:52:20littlewookiegevaerts: having a keyboard on my cowond2+ over fm signal
21:52:45gevaertsah, well, in theory that could work. I wouldn't bother though
21:53:31littlewookiei think it would be a cool proof of conecpt
21:53:52bertrikplease tell us when you made it work :P
21:55:42littlewookiecource ;DD
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21:56:28gevaertsgah, we do have a problem with following up on patches :(
21:56:29 Join n1s [0] (n=n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s)
21:57:01gevaertsTons of stuff from Yoshihisa Uchida with nearly no response
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22:00:35 Quit _zic ("Ex-Chat")
22:04:27 Join mc2739_ [0] (n=mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739)
22:04:30bertrikhm, indeed
22:05:51 Part froggyman
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22:17:23n1sgevaerts: doesn't he have commit access?
22:18:01gevaertsn1s: unless my searching skills are really failing, he's not in COMMITTERS
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22:20:33n1sZagor: have you seen fs#10878 ?
22:21:56Zagorn1s: no. thanks.
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22:31:19soapshould we voice all the real people in preparation for spam flooding or just ride it out?
22:31:44gevaertsI'd say ride it out and try to wake scorche
22:32:49soapI'll SMS him?
22:33:04gevaertsI'm not sure it
22:33:12gevaerts's that urgent. If we actually get spam, yes
22:33:29soaptakes him an hour or two to wake up. ;)
22:35:04 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
22:35:18gevaertsthere is that :)
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23:26:24rxgpmklmnsirYour machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit for a quick and easy solution!
23:26:24rxgpmklmnsirYour machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit for a quick and easy solution!
23:26:24 Quit rxgpmklmnsir (Broken pipe)
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23:26:38Mode"#rockbox +o gevaerts " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:26:42Mode"#rockbox +R " by gevaerts (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
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23:29:52rasherDo not visit those links
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23:31:10 Quit hlpyp (K-lined)
23:32:13Topic"Now in freeze for upcoming 3.5! | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | We're currently suffering from a spam attack. If you find you can't say anything, contact a channel operator, or ask for help in #freenode" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:33:30Mode"#rockbox +o rasher " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:33:45Mode"#rockbox +o soap " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:33:51Mode"#rockbox +vvvv tmzt toffe82 togetic tomaw__ " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:33:52Mode"#rockbox +vvvv Tomis topik Topy44 Torne " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:33:52Mode"#rockbox +vvvv Tuplanolla Unhelpful Utchybann xavieran " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:33:52Mode"#rockbox +vvvv Xerion yosafbridge YPSY z35 " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:33:52Mode"#rockbox +vvvv Zagor Zambezi Zarggg_ zu " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:33:59Mode"#rockbox +vvvv Res1 rhodan Rob2222 rphillips " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:33:59Mode"#rockbox +vvvv rvvs89 saratoga sbhsu scorche " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:33:59Mode"#rockbox +vvvv scorche|sh simabeis sinuc slammer " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:00Mode"#rockbox +vvvv Slasheri stacker55 Strife89 tarbo " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:02Mode"#rockbox +vvvv tchan1 tha TheSeven ThomasAH " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:08Mode"#rockbox +vvvv lostlogic lyngaas MagusG maraz " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:08Mode"#rockbox +vvvv martian67 mc2739 mikroflops mt " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:08Mode"#rockbox +vvvv n17ikh n1s Naked nima " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:10Mode"#rockbox +vvvv Oxymis_pc panni_ parafin phanboy4 " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:12Mode"#rockbox +vvvv pippijn pixelma pjm0616 preglow " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:14Mode"#rockbox +v ps-auxw " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:23Mode"#rockbox +vvvv advcomp2019__ aexin alexbobp AlexP " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:23Mode"#rockbox +vvvv amiconn AndyI antil33t at0m " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:23Mode"#rockbox +vvvv avacore B4gder Barahir BeFalou " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:24Mode"#rockbox +vvvv bertrik beta2k BlakeJohnson86 blithe " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:26Mode"#rockbox +vvvv bluebrother bzed Casainho chaos " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:28Mode"#rockbox +vvvv CIA-44 crashd crwl Curtman " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:30Mode"#rockbox +vvvv DataGhost dionoea dmb dys " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:32Mode"#rockbox +vv efyx_ ehntoo " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:38Mode"#rockbox +vvvv advcomp2019__ aexin alexbobp AlexP " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:40Mode"#rockbox +vvvv amiconn AndyI antil33t at0m " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:43Mode"#rockbox +vvvv avacore B4gder Barahir BeFalou " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:44Mode"#rockbox +vvvv bertrik beta2k BlakeJohnson86 blithe " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:46Mode"#rockbox +vvvv bluebrother bzed Casainho chaos " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:48Mode"#rockbox +vvvv CIA-44 crashd crwl Curtman " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:50Mode"#rockbox +vvvv DataGhost dionoea dmb dys " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:52Mode"#rockbox +vv efyx_ ehntoo " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:34:58pippijnmode spam
23:35:02Mode"#rockbox +vvvv advcomp2019__ aexin alexbobp AlexP " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:02Mode"#rockbox +vvvv amiconn AndyI antil33t at0m " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:02Mode"#rockbox +vvvv avacore B4gder Barahir BeFalou " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:02Mode"#rockbox +vvvv bertrik beta2k BlakeJohnson86 blithe " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:04Mode"#rockbox +vvvv bluebrother bzed Casainho chaos " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:06Mode"#rockbox +vvvv CIA-44 crashd crwl Curtman " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:08Mode"#rockbox +vvvv DataGhost dionoea dmb dys " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:10Mode"#rockbox +vv efyx_ ehntoo " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:14gevaertspippijn: better than javascript spam :)
23:35:26Mode"#rockbox +vvvv elcan evilnick evilnick__ FlynDice " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:26Mode"#rockbox +vvvv FOAD fxb__ Galois geertvdijk " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:26Mode"#rockbox +vvvv gibbon_ GodEater goffa HBK " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:28Mode"#rockbox +vvvv hebz0rl Highlander Horscht jd " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:30Mode"#rockbox +vvvv JdGordon jfc jho jordan` " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:32Mode"#rockbox +vvvv jvd killan_ Kitr88 kloeri " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:34Mode"#rockbox +vvvv kloeri_ Kohlrabi krazykit linuxguy3 " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:36Mode"#rockbox +vv linuxstb Llorean " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:35:41Mode"#rockbox +v logbot " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
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23:36:02Mode"#rockbox +v soap " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:36:05Mode"#rockbox -o soap " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
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23:36:55Mode"#rockbox +o soap " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:40:24 Quit evilnick ("Page closed")
23:48:11CIA-44New commit by alle (r24313): Use nicer right arrows in the manual
23:50:04 Join liar [0] (
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23:50:48Mode"#rockbox +v liar " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:51:10Mode"#rockbox +v Tomis2 " by soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:51:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:53:11 Nick Tomis2 is now known as Tomis (n=Tomis@
23:54:07CIA-44New commit by alle (r24314): Section headings should not end with a full stop
23:54:29 Nick advcomp2019__ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
23:55:35saratogan1s: we've discussed giving him SVN access, but he never returned our emails so he doesn't have it for now
23:55:51 Quit Highlander ("Quitte")
23:58:22 Quit bertrik ("De groeten")

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