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#rockbox log for 2010-02-03

00:02:38 Quit casainho (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.16/2009121602])
00:04:00gevaertspamaury: I copied a new track to the player, played it, tried to set the rating, which failed. Then I updated the database, and then setting the rating works
00:04:16pamauryWhat do you mean by failed ?
00:04:26gevaerts<no info>
00:04:35gevaertswell, "failed". That's what I would expect
00:04:36pamauryBut you get a list of possible ratings or not ?
00:05:49pamauryI don't understand why it works for me
00:06:01gevaertsdo you have auto-update turned on?
00:06:31CIA-8New commit by amiconn (r24474): Reduce reciprocal table size a bit on Nano 2nd Gen as well (fix red).
00:06:37pamauryI'll try to turn it off
00:06:51gevaertswell, the track is probably in the database by the time you try then
00:07:56 Join fdinel [0] (
00:08:30pamauryAh, I managed to reproduce it !
00:09:06gevaertsI'd close this as not a bug. Rating is a database feature, and you can't rate tracks that aren
00:09:08gevaerts't in the database
00:09:52*pamaury is closing the bug report...
00:10:43gevaertsmake sure you explain what's going on
00:11:25pamaury"Rating a file is a database feature. When auto-update is off and the the database has not been refreshed, the file is not in the database so you can't rate it.". Is it ok ?
00:11:49gevaertssounds good
00:13:15JdGordon_ah right! initing the db wont change anything
00:13:18JdGordon_no, its a valid bug
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00:13:36JdGordon_it shuold be added to the db as soon as it starts playing regardless of autoupdate or not
00:13:48pamauryThat's a feature ;)
00:13:57JdGordon_no thats a bug!
00:14:14JdGordon_my manager here belives the only difference between a bufg and a feature is when it was found :)
00:14:42pamauryIntel has a different POV on that question :)
00:14:55gevaertsJdGordon_: why? If I set the database to not update, I expect it to not update
00:15:19pamauryTo me that's not a bug. auto-update off means no automatic auto update
00:16:29gevaertshm, there might be a window where you're playing the file, but it's not been auto-updated yet
00:16:54gevaertsI claim you won't have listened to enough of the track to be able to rate it though
00:17:04pamauryManual says: " If Auto update is set to on, each time the player boots, the database
00:17:05pamaurywill automatically be updated.
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00:18:09pamauryThere is a note: "the auto update will only check for deleted files if dircache is enabled. Update now does that check whether dircache is enabled or not"
00:18:39gevaertsthat's unrelated to this issue I'd say
00:20:25gevaertsIf you add lots of new files and then quickly play one, you might be unable to rate it due to the update still being ongoing. I don't think we can do much about that though, interrupting the auto-update to quickly insert this new file first sounds risky
00:21:23pamauryAnd that situation is unlikely to happen, you usually don't rate files just after adding them.
00:21:44*pamaury never rate files but feels it's more sensible to listen to a music several times before rating it
00:23:53pamaurySo should I reopen this bug report or not ?
00:24:08gevaertsI don't think so
00:25:28 Quit efyx_ (Quit: Quitte)
00:25:34gevaertsIf someone actually hits this issue in real use, *and* can convince us that waiting a bit is not an option, then we can accept it as a bug
00:26:22gevaertsAlso, why are those database users playing tracks from the file browser anyway? ;)
00:26:32pamauryThat's my question !
00:26:55pamauryUsers are not patient :)
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00:38:56Stephen__JdGordon, i'm wondering in an sbs is it possible to have a list two different colours? for example for the first line of the list to be one colour and the remaining another colour ?
00:40:15Stephen__or JdGordon_ ?
00:41:36JdGordon_not yet
00:41:47JdGordon_you want the title a different colour?
00:42:12Stephen__like the title ala rockbox or folder name to be one colour and the files to be another
00:42:33JdGordon_yeah, thats something I've been thinking about, I'd actually like to have the whole list skinned!
00:42:54JdGordon_individual bits are seperate skin elements
00:42:58Stephen__would be sweet as i'm in the middle of a theme at the moment and i was hoping for that
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00:43:19*JdGordon_ wonders if amiconn is reading this and booking tickets to fly out here to kill me :D
00:43:50Stephen__ah just wondered if it was possible or was i missing something
00:44:01Stephen__glad i didn't think i had missed something
00:44:14JdGordon_if you can code, it shuold be pretty simple to add
00:44:17 Quit Bullet` (Quit: Bye les gens =))
00:44:33Stephen__not quite yet, still on second chapter of C book
00:44:36JdGordon_add a new viewport spec for the title in the wps parser, then have the list control respect that
00:45:29Stephen__would there be much point in posting to flyspray or the forum ?
00:45:40Stephen__doubt there'd be much interest
00:46:02JdGordon_the patch? yes, the request? no
00:46:19Stephen__that's what i thought, must get back into that C book.
00:46:28JdGordon_meh, learn by doing!
00:46:45Stephen__ah i'll upload the theme as is till either i learn or someone fixes
00:47:16Stephen__thanks for your time anywya
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01:02:53 Quit stripwax (Quit:
01:05:07*JdGordon_ slaps Stephen__ for putting ideas into his head before he is finished with skinning the fm screen
01:05:11JdGordon_and rec screen
01:05:28Stephen__hahaha don't blsamer me.
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01:06:12Stephen__would be handy for a "rainbow" skin list
01:06:18JdGordon_ok, I'll blame froggyman instead then
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01:07:00Stephen__that ain't my theme idea by the way
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01:10:06Stephen__also JdGordon_ i agree with the rec screen and sysfont
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01:34:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:37:26CIA-8New commit by midgey34 (r24475): FS #10690: Add support for 24 bit ALAC files based on libalac 0.2.0
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02:44:44CIA-8New commit by Blue_Dude (r24476): Temp fix yellow for portugues and turkce lang files by replacing faulty empty quotes with the English text. Needs translator followup.
02:51:00CIA-8New commit by Blue_Dude (r24477): Another temp fix yellow for turkce lang files by replacing faulty empty quotes with the English text. Needs translator followup.
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03:53:12pixelmaI believe that if there should be a temp feix for those, it also or *rather* be reverting those strings completely. so differences show for the tranlsators again. And it would also need tp be done in the release branch... It's *bad* do just put english into the translation part, please someone tell Blue_Dude again
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03:56:18pixelmafix too
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05:04:55*Unhelpful notes that there was a red for ape recip table size... despite everybody using "the same" compilers. :/
05:16:08BlastTyrantJdGordon, I wanted to thank you for your help the other night, since I didn't get a chance to do it then.
05:16:20JdGordonno worries :)
05:16:30JdGordonjust dont go spreading nasty rumours around that I'm helpful!
05:17:16krazykitspread those rumors about Unhelpful ;)
05:17:17BlastTyrant:P I won't
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05:20:43BlastTyrantI jumped the gun a little bit on testing out the fix though. The progress bar displays how it's supossed to now, but the next track text area seems to still have that same problem when it scrolls. I didn't catch it then because the colors in that area are really similar.
05:21:36JdGordonah yeah, that makes perfect sense :/
05:22:50BlastTyrantsorry, did I forget to add details? silly me...
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05:23:32JdGordonI mean, in retrospect yeah that makes sense that it would happen
05:27:05 Part froggyman
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06:05:24woosteranyone active? I have a minor bug to report...
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06:10:35S_a_i_n_twooster: bug reports are handled via the tracker on the rb mainpage.
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06:11:09S_a_i_n_twooster: but do check to see if it has already been reported first.
06:12:21woosterOkay thanks S_a_i_n_t
06:12:27woosterWill do
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07:00:53JdGordonBlastTyrant: ok, no that doesnt make sense
07:01:02JdGordonsame theme?
07:02:30JdGordonare the scrolling lines in the sbs or the wps?
07:04:25 Quit wooster ()
07:07:42JdGordonok, right, something is screwey
07:11:38JdGordonin a word... CRAP!
07:13:35JdGordonthe issue is that the WPS sets its backdrop on a refresh, then the sbs does the same thing, and because the sbs updates more often its backdrop is used for those scrolling viewports
07:21:53 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
07:34:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:40:05S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: I haven't been following the progression of the sbs as closely as I should have been. I know you've been pulling off all sorts of magic, but I haven't been looking at the code behind said magic at all.
07:40:34JdGordonits not magic anymore if you know how it works
07:40:40S_a_i_n_tI believe a better/propper understanding of viewports is what I *really* need to be loking at though.
07:42:31*JdGordon isnt sure if he should commit this fix or not
07:42:57pixelmarasher: are you going to reopen the patch for the Turkish lang update too?
07:43:03S_a_i_n_twhat's it a fir *for*?
07:43:25JdGordonthe bug from 30min ago
07:48:45JdGordonso. I can fix this in two way. 1) have the scroller remember the backdrop (which is what I've done, or 2) just outright dont let the sbs set the backdrop if the wps is active
07:49:18JdGordonthe bug would only ever happen if the sbs is enabled with the wps and both have different backgrounds... which is something which could actually work
07:49:31JdGordondoing the 2nd option kills that bonus feature
07:49:44JdGordondoing the 1st leads to individual backdrops per viewport
07:50:24pixelmawhy? The backdrop is fullscreen and there's no transparency in backdrops. Where would you see the sbs backdrop?
07:50:47JdGordonif the wps keeps the sbs enabled it (the wps) isnt full screen
07:51:52S_a_i_n_tthese types of things are why I haven't even *started* playing with sbs yet...
07:52:03JdGordonyou could cut the screen in half, one half being the sbs+ its background, the other the wps and its backgroun
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07:52:13JdGordonthats a totally valid option...
07:52:43JdGordonor I outright disable the sbs backdrop in any other skinned screen
07:52:48JdGordonwhich is meh
07:52:52JdGordoneither way is crap
07:53:59S_a_i_n_tyou may as well flip a coin, it's an "either or" situation.
07:56:15GodEaterDid we miss the release?
07:56:30JdGordonits still feb 2 here
07:56:41GodEaterwell argued :)
07:56:54GodEaterso the release is still down to you then ;)
07:57:18JdGordonI'm not sure what is happening, the langs stuff and the actual building files?
07:57:30JdGordononly is working for me
07:57:53pixelmasince I won't have time to commit something until the evening, here is what I have for the LANG_COMPRESSOR breakage of r22832: . All other affected languages had been updated anyways so far. Hopefully someone who knows about it has time (rasher?) and maybe we'll get the Tagalog translation, I couldn't reach the Walloon guy per mail
07:59:03pixelmaPortuguese and Turkish need rework too, the committed temp fix is way wrong and (maybe luckily) not in the release branch yet
08:02:48 Quit vegtoruci (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
08:03:50CIA-8New commit by jdgordon (r24478): fix a bug where the backdrop from the sbs is displayed on scrolling lines in the wps when the %wd tag is not used. ...
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08:10:55JdGordonis it bad to always disable the theme on the yes/no screen?
08:11:12 Join kugel [0] (kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
08:11:26kugelwhat a hack :\
08:11:47JdGordongood morning to you too
08:13:03amiconnUnhelpful: The red was due to something I overlooked, not binsize fluctuation
08:15:05kugelJdGordon: sure it would be better to disable the sbs backdrop if the other skinned screen you entered has one
08:15:32JdGordonyes... and no
08:15:54kugelall other skinned screens are specialized, while the sbs is the basic skin so it makes sense when the specialized skins override parts of the basic one
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08:16:25JdGordonexcept that doesnt play with your idea of you should be able to take a sbs and use it with other wps's
08:16:47JdGordonalso, doing that means an extra call for every exit_skinned_screen() and enter_skinned_screen()
08:16:50kugelI don't see how
08:18:26kugelif the wps has a backdrop, use it, otherwise use the default (from sbs, settings) one. that doesn't contradict with my idea
08:19:29pixelmafor any takers on my pastebin - the Polish part was a hint from mitk (Tomasz Kowalczyk) here
08:19:35JdGordon the left part is sbs and could work with any backdrop to look nice (it only needs the left part). the wps could then use its own backdrop on the right part
08:19:59kugeltwo backdrops in paralell?
08:20:07JdGordonsort of
08:20:28kugelsince when do we want that?
08:21:04kugelI'm afraid that doesn't work with the current scheme/code in rockbox
08:21:14JdGordonall I'm saying is that is a (possibly nice) side effect of the bug fix
08:22:02*JdGordon wouldnt mind seeing the possibility of individual backdrops per VIEWPORT
08:22:07kugelwell, the sbs can only work generically if it doesn't depend on the backdrop, if it isn't I can't help it
08:23:02GodEaterJdGordon: isn't that going to start eating memory?
08:23:46JdGordonnot necessarily
08:24:02JdGordoninstead of loading a full screen bmp, you would only load enough for that viewport
08:24:28JdGordonthen it opens up the possibility of using the AA image for a backdrop(!)
08:25:21amiconnThe backdrop needs to be exactly fullscreen
08:25:37kugelJdGordon: and what advantage does that have?
08:25:47GodEaterJdGordon: I presume if you implemented this you could force the tag to only load a backdrop which matches the viewports size right?
08:25:55GodEaterwhich would mean you still enforce the memory size
08:25:59amiconnIt's implemented this way for performance
08:26:33JdGordonamiconn: yes, I know, but we can work around that
08:27:13JdGordonkugel: what does any of this have to do with advantages? its entirely to make it look better
08:27:24JdGordonI know for a FACT that AA as a backgroud would be loved
08:27:52kugelI'm not sure how AA in background or foreground is any different
08:28:15JdGordonGodEater: I want to make the skin buffer user configurable eventually so if you dont want any of this it doesnt effect you
08:28:17amiconnThe current skinning stuff is already causing noticeable slowdown :(
08:28:33JdGordonnot if you dont use it
08:28:35GodEateramiconn: really?
08:28:38GodEaterI've not noticed that
08:28:49*JdGordon suggests amiconn use a wps with nothing but "%wd" in it :)
08:28:54GodEaterand I still use a piece of crap ipod video as my target of choice
08:29:25*amiconn is using text-only wps'es, but that's not the point
08:29:39kugelwhich slowdown are you refering to?
08:29:43amiconnThe list & sbs stuff slows down booting noticeably
08:30:12kugeland except that?
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08:30:28amiconnIt takes significantly longer from "power on" to "browser ready"
08:31:11kugelI've noticed the longer boottimes too (and I can't explain what's this caused by), but nothing else
08:31:24amiconnAlso, changing screens became slower; often there are partial redraws with pauses happening
08:32:15*kugel can't confirm that
08:32:45*GodEater hasn't noticed either effect
08:32:49amiconnMost of the time it's the statusbar which is delayed
08:34:19GodEaterI don't think I ever use the statusbar, so perhaps this is why I've not noticed it
08:34:19amiconnFurthermore some inits seem to happen in the wrong order now. The statusbar shows the built-in defaults at boot, instead of the chosen settings
08:35:14kugelthat's because of that dreaded early usb
08:35:52amiconnWell, it wasn't the case before all this sbs stuff, and we had early usb back then
08:36:20kugelbecause the entire statusbar handling was a hack
08:36:29amiconnThe statusbar is drawn too early now - the spash screen used to be "status bar free"
08:37:09amiconnIt might have been a hack, but at least it worked like designed and expected :\
08:38:16JdGordon(11:29:44 PM) amiconn: The list & sbs stuff slows down booting noticeably <- I dont believe this... untill someone benches it I'm going to continue not believing it
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08:39:26amiconnI could do that tonight - comparing current svn with rb 3.3
08:40:17JdGordonbah, could you test 10853 at the same time? (hwcodec+radio target)
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08:44:17JdGordonalso, 3.3 is too far back.. bench it against 23903
08:44:30GodEaterwhy is 3.3 too far back?
08:44:57JdGordonbecause it proves nothing other than the speed changed.
08:45:21JdGordon23904 is the change which would affect startup if sbs is to blame
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08:47:34SparkeaterI thought today was the release date for the new rockbox
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08:48:08JdGordondoes it *really* matter that much?
08:48:14kugelSparkeater: we had some issues with translation updates I think
08:48:33JdGordonB4gder: I cant get the and scripts working so someone else will need to build them
08:48:39SparkeaterI dunno, does it? I just wanted to see was new
08:48:48Sparkeaterand which bugs were fixec
08:48:50kugeldoesn't the 3.5 branch need r24476 and r24477 too?
08:49:07pixelmawrong fix
08:49:24Sparkeatercan someone put this bug on the bug tracker, I'm at a library and have forgotten my flyspray password
08:49:43kugelit's better to show the english string than literally nothing in the yesno screens
08:50:36pixelmawith the correct fix you'll get the english string if it doesn't exist in the translation and still the translator will be notified that he has to do some work
08:51:29pixelmawhich is not the case now. The best fix would actually be a correct translation there of course (and for Portuguese there is a new patch in the tracker)
08:51:35Sparkeaterthe strategy game "superdom" is awesome, except you can only have 1/1 2/2 3/3 factories/farms for the computer or the player. if you put in any other number (like 1 farm and 3 factories) or 2 farms and 3 factories it always ends up with some random mismatch... it pretty much gives you a random amount of too many/too few factories/farms.. someone add this to flyspray please? I can't do it from this computer
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08:52:47pixelmawell, the wrong fix might be acceptable in the release branch only since it won't be touched after release anymore and the next release will be based of SVN
08:53:30kugelso the entire IDs should simply be deleted?
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08:54:06Sparkeateris the person who made/ported superdom here?
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08:55:21SparkeaterI need to report a bug for one of the best games in rockbox! :(
08:55:54kugelpost it on flyspray
08:55:55LloreanSparkeater: Is the bug tracker broken?
08:56:32JdGordonthe person who made superdom has been awol for years
08:56:36pixelmakugel: there are parts already translated and you would lose those. I tried and the warnings will also be fixed if you delete the lines with the empty strings ( "" ) and the related parts in the <source> parts. I didn't have time to check if it now turns up when using genlang (but it should)
08:57:27bertrikI got again about 50% more runtime on my sansa clipv1 than other people do (tested with mp3 now instead of ogg)
08:58:01Sparkeaterso nobody is gonna fix superdom? :(
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08:58:39pixelmaif you put it on the tracker there might be other takers
08:58:55S_a_i_n_tSparkeater: Was it not you I explained the "volunteer nature" of the project to?
08:59:36AlexPSparkeater: Sure, but you need to put it on the bug tracker so that the right people see it
08:59:51Sparkeaterdunno, probably. I have no internet access because I'm moving apartments so I can't check the tracker and I've forgotten my password so I can't put it in the tracker anyway
09:00:04Sparkeatercan somene else put it in the tracker please?
09:01:22Sparkeaterall my passwords are stored in my laptop, which is never online because I'm halfway between apartments
09:02:10S_a_i_n_t*thats what usb-keys are for* :P
09:02:22*JdGordon spots an AlexP
09:02:27AlexPhello :)
09:02:29JdGordonwhat was the story with the backdrops?
09:02:40AlexPJdGordon: I have two issues :)
09:03:26AlexPJdGordon: 1) When a ui viepowrt is defined in the theme.cfg, the backdrop doesn't load, and the screen has crazy colours on it. If I comment that out and set the ui viewport via the .sbs it is fine
09:03:59JdGordonbackdrop comes from where?
09:03:59AlexPJdGordon: 2) The WPS background doesn't properly overwrite the backdrop where the sbs is when in the wps
09:04:09AlexPJdGordon: From the theme.cfg
09:04:22JdGordonno need to hilight me every line :p
09:04:38JdGordonscreenshot or zip for the 2nd issue please?
09:04:55AlexPThere is a seperate issue on the beast - if I try to select a backdrop via the context menu, the beast just freezes for a few seconds then shuts down
09:05:11AlexPSure, but I just got to work so it'll have to wait some hours
09:05:44JdGordonok, so I'll head to bed then
09:05:49AlexPJdGordon: I'll take a screen shot and package the whole theme for you when I get home tonight
09:06:38JdGordonhang on. you are using the ui and backdrop settings, and a sbs?
09:07:02kugelthat made sense a week ago
09:07:13JdGordonit still does
09:07:31JdGordonthe ui viewport setting is ignored, but the backdrop will be used
09:07:54AlexPI could of course by a) doing something silly and b) explaining badly :)
09:08:14JdGordonthats far more likely than the code being buggy :D
09:08:20AlexPIt is probably just easier of I give you the theme so you can see for yourself, and then tell me what silly combination I'm using :)
09:08:37JdGordonyes, but im curious, and guessing games are more fun
09:09:13AlexPhehe :)
09:09:19JdGordon%X isnt used anywhere in the sbs?
09:09:26JdGordon%Xd or %X|filename|
09:12:11JdGordondoes anyone know why the filename settings are all checked like "if (setting[0] && setting[0] != 0xff)" ?
09:12:26AlexPI have a full screen menu backdrop and a full screen wps backdrop, and the sbs just sits on top of those. This used to work fine - should I now be cutting those down and having seperate backdrops for the sbs?
09:12:31JdGordonis that from before config.cfg? or is it actually still used?
09:12:49JdGordonAlexP: no, it should work like that
09:12:53AlexPIncidently, the sbs has a viewport at the top of the screen, and a viewport at the bottom
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09:34:18Unhelpfulamiconn: oh? what happened? the error seemed to indicate that the ape codec overflowed iram, which sounds an awful lot like it was due to binsize fluctuations. also, i helped somebody yesterday with an issue that turned out to be due to eabi binsize changes.
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10:58:25S_a_i_n_tI am *totally failing on this brain just isn't on today. Could someone kind soul please give me an example of what the WPS code for "If AA for 'current/next track' is found, display 'current track AA' for 5sec ; display 'next track AA' for 5sec | if not, do nothing" look like.
10:58:34S_a_i_n_tI'd *really* appreciate it.
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11:00:07amiconnUnhelpful: Check the commit immediately before...
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11:04:07pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: I don't think the next track's album art is available at any time
11:04:34S_a_i_n_twhat's the %Cn tag for then?
11:05:39pixelmawhere did you read anything about a %Cn tag?
11:06:01S_a_i_n_tdo't read any tone into that, I just realised it may sound snippy, I'm genuinely curious.
11:06:10S_a_i_n_tI'll find the link & post it.
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11:09:06S_a_i_n_t"The %?C and %?Cn indicate whether bitmap files have been found for the current and next tracks. They work exactly like usual conditional tags : %?C and %?Cn."
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11:10:18S_a_i_n_tI see where I've messed up now, There isn't a %Cn
11:10:25S_a_i_n_tonly a %?Cn
11:11:04S_a_i_n_tbut I don;t much see the use in knowing if next track AA is there, if it can't be displayed.
11:11:23S_a_i_n_tso %Cn does seem to make sense.
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11:14:17pixelmathe note is very old - even from a draft version. I don't think it has been implemented this way (IIRC the same applies to the scaling tags on this page)
11:15:46przemhbSuppose RB is playing 48kHz wave file on H10 - does it resample it to 44.1kHz?
11:16:40S_a_i_n_tI'm pretty sur that l,c,r,t,c,b is still correct.
11:17:48linuxstbprzemhb: Yes.
11:18:10przemhblinuxstb: so we have a problem
11:18:17linuxstbprzemhb: We do?
11:18:36przemhblinuxstb: resampler produces high distortions
11:19:01przemhblinuxstb: wait a moment - I will give you a link to the measurements screenshots...
11:19:22linuxstbprzemhb: Yes, I think we're aware of that. Our resampler is _fast_ though....
11:20:53przemhblinuxstb: - that's 44.1kHz played and that's 48kHz:
11:21:07amiconnDownsampling shouldn't produce distortions according to preglow iirc
11:21:33amiconn(audible ones, that is)
11:21:33przemhblinuxstb: the measurement method is SilenceSweep - it measures total distortions resulting from wideband signal
11:22:20linuxstbprzemhb: This isn't really my area of expertise - I just know what others have said. (i.e. that our resampler isn't the best in the world, quality-wise)
11:22:26przemhblinuxstb: as you can see distortions resulting from resampling as very high
11:25:00gevaertsprzemhb: this is without any EQ or other audio-altering settings?
11:25:39przemhblinuxstb: with whom I should talk then?
11:27:11przemhbgevaerts: yes, al turned off
11:28:00gevaertsok, I ask because I know that at least on gigabeat F, the hardware sound things cause very audible distortions
11:28:37linuxstbprzemhb: Have you tested playing this file with the H10's original firmware?
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11:38:35pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: those are alignment tags, not scaling. And it seems that occurances of this have been removed in the meantime
11:42:28AlexPlinuxstb: Our resampler is essentially a linear interpolation IIRC
11:42:40AlexPAnd as you say, known to be pretty crap :)
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11:44:49przemhb(sorry for delay - I was forced to reset my computer)
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11:51:51przemhbgevaerts: currently we have some 2.2% of total distortions (harmonics and intermodulations together) at 3kHz, so at the most audible range
11:52:22przemhbgevaerts: doesn't mention what is happening at higher frequencies
11:52:47przemhbgevaerts: one point is that sidtortions should be kept below 1% at all audible frequencies
11:53:01AlexPprzemhb: Preglow did the resampler, and by his admission it is pretty crap
11:53:16AlexPprzemhb: IIRC (and I might not), it is just some sort of linear resampling
11:53:44gevaertsuhm, I'm also not really the person to talk to... I only wanted to make sure that it's really the resampler that causes this, apart from that audio things are a mystery to me
11:53:58AlexPIt was done to be quick and simple, and (outting words in his mouth) he has long wanted to redo it, but finding the time is the issue
11:54:34przemhbAlexP: I understand
11:55:08AlexPIt is definately recommended to resample first on your PC and let Rockbox have 44.1 kHz
11:55:32gevaertsthat assumes lossless compression of course
11:56:04przemhbthe other point is: whyto bother in resampling at all for targets which have DACs supporting sample rates up to 96kHz, like H10 has?
11:56:33S_a_i_n_tpixelma: scaling? do you mean the %Cl| line?
11:56:35gevaertsagain, someone has to do it :)
11:56:59AlexPgevaerts: true
11:57:18AlexPprzemhb: Because Rockbox's playback engine assumes 44.1 kHz in many places
11:57:36AlexPprzemhb: So to get other frequencies output directly, someone needs to redo all of that
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11:58:37gevaertsI don't think anyone objects to supporting different sample rates in principle
11:58:57AlexPIt is just a lot of work that someone has to do to make it happen
11:59:35przemhbI understand
11:59:58przemhbDo you think it makes sense to report the problem as a bug in the tracker?
12:00:04AlexPNot really
12:00:08AlexPAs it isn't a bug per se
12:00:17AlexPIt is unimplemented functionality
12:00:39AlexPWhich is a somewhat semantic difference :)
12:01:01gevaerts"the problem" being the distortion or the lack of support for other rates?
12:01:11AlexPah right, I was thinking other rates
12:01:59AlexPWe know the resampler isn't very good, but it might be nice to have the measurements przemhb took somewhere
12:02:29przemhbI'm open to your suggestions
12:03:39linuxstbMaybe a wiki page? If people can then find source code for other potential resamplers, maybe someone would be tempted to implement them in Rockbox...
12:03:53przemhb(to cheer up I may add Windows Mobile has much worse resampler - it introduces horrible 10% distortions at 1kHz and disastrous 25% at 10kHz)
12:04:40linuxstbHurray! ;)
12:06:20przemhbvery good resample library released under GPL is Secret Rabbit Code
12:07:06przemhbI think it would be nice if a new resampler had an option to choose either speed or quality
12:07:26linuxstbprzemhb: An important point is that our devices don't have a hardware floating point unit. So any resampler needs to use integer (fixed-point) arithmetic.
12:09:14przemhblinuxstb: I would have to check the SRC if it works on integers
12:11:19linuxstbprzemhb: I've just had a quick look, and I don't think it does - the source code is full of "float" and "double"...
12:18:48przemhblinuxstb: that's a pitty (it's very good resampler used in foobar)
12:19:52linuxstbprzemhb: Yes. I'm sure if there was an obvious library, someone would have ported it to Rockbox by now...
12:20:05linuxstbSo I think it means someone writing their own...
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12:23:37gevaertslinuxstb: seems to indicate that the resampling itself might be fixed point
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12:35:24gevaertshm, seems to be LGPL2.1+ and fixed point
12:36:10gevaertssince it would be usable, I assume there will be another snag such as it being horribly slow or something like that
12:37:30arbingordongevaerts: it takes more muscles to smile than to frown :)
12:37:46arbingordon(though flipping the bird takes even less XD)
12:37:57gevaertsarbingordon: yes, and I try to keep fit, so I have to exercise my muscles!
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13:01:09S_a_i_n_toe sthe .ajz extension still get used?
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13:06:07amiconnprzemhb: There is a fundamental problem with supporting more than one sample rate. If there's a change in sample rate between two tracks, how do you do that?
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13:06:24amiconnTaking things like crossfade into acount...
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13:06:50linuxstbIf crossfade is active, then I think you would resample everything to a (possibly configurable) rate.
13:07:28amiconnWell, I'd rather not crossfade between tracks where sample rate changes, but either method adds significant complexity at least
13:08:07linuxstbWhy complexity? Resampling everything is the current method.
13:08:17amiconnAnother issue is that tone filter/eq parameters, crossfeed parameters etc need adjustment
13:08:35przemhbamiconn: yes, then I would resample everything to the highest sample rate
13:08:38amiconnYes, but you'd have two ways of handling things
13:08:56amiconnprzemhb: That would be a huge waste of cpu power and hence battery runime
13:09:46przemhbamiconn: some users prefer quality over runtime
13:10:14pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: yes, on the Archos players
13:10:28przemhbamiconn: but of course runtime would suffer
13:10:38S_a_i_n_twhere can I find a list of *all* the .exts that rb supports (irrespective of target)
13:11:17linuxstbS_a_i_n_t: apps/filetypes.c
13:11:31linuxstbPlus the viewers config file
13:11:34pixelmaexcept the Player/Studio where the firmware file has a .mod extension IIRC
13:11:45przemhbamiconn: as we already resample everything we could do the same but with better resampler and to the highest frequency supported by the target's DAC
13:12:29linuxstbprzemhb: Some DACs support 96KHz - would you want to resample to that? That would more than double the amount of audio data being shuffled around.
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13:13:34przemhblinuxstb: I would (i'm an audiofile), but I't could be more reasonable to allow an user to choose
13:13:39amiconnI'd rather want a better resample and a sane output sample rate
13:14:02linuxstbprzemhb: I assume you mean audiophile? ;)
13:14:09amiconnBetter still, adjust output sample rate and don't resample
13:14:17przemhblinuxstb: yes...
13:14:20linuxstbprzemhb: Do you use crossfade?
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13:14:39przemhblinuxstb: no, not at all
13:14:48amiconnBut there are even more things to consider: Some DACs support more than one rate but not all standard rates
13:15:41linuxstbprzemhb: Then I don't think we're disagreeing. i.e. we would all like Rockbox to avoid resampling in cases where the hardware supports it. It's just that no-one wants it enough to do it...
13:16:29amiconnE.g. on coldfire we can only do 11.025/22.05/44.1/88.2
13:17:06amiconnLikewise, many wolfsons only support 8kHz and 32kHz or higher, but nothing between those two
13:17:30przemhblinuxstb: I agree
13:22:52*amiconn thinks that support for sample rate switching in the pcm code would even help porting the new playback code to hwcodec
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13:51:12S_a_i_n_tany .ext specified in an " 'iconset-name'.icons " file will override "viewers.config", ...correct?
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14:11:55CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24479): Correct issues with LANG_COMPRESSOR from r22832 - Author: Marianne Arnold
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14:16:21CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24480): Correct issues with LANG_COMPRESSOR from r22832 - Author: Marianne Arnold
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14:22:31pixelmamc2739: did you check if the string now appears marked as missing in Tagalog and Walloon?
14:23:54CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24481): Last changes in Czech language ...
14:26:04mc2739pixelma: yes, that string is shown as missing in Tagalog and Walloon
14:29:40CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24482): Last changes in Czech language ...
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14:38:17CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24483): Finish & update Chinese translation ...
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15:14:33evilnick_Bpixelma: "We may not be able to get a translation patch done in time for the 3.5 release. Tell pixelma that some of the English words are there because there's no real..."
15:14:50*evilnick_B assumes that there may be another text to come
15:14:55arbingordon < haha, figure you rockbox guys will get a kick out of it
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15:16:26gevaertsarbingordon: since this channel is meant to be on topic, we don't
15:17:38pixelmaevilnick_B: doesn't matter anymore. Also in this case it's not English becaus there is no real translation but because someone wrongly put it there (it might be that it will not get a "better" translation but the problem with the situation before was that the string wouldn't have gotten attention
15:18:02evilnick_Bpixelma: "...Tagalog translation, and Melba has admitted this. So the translation is a bit "Taglish" unless another native Tagalog speaker knows a good translation.
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15:35:32CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24485): Updated Portuguese Translation ...
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15:45:59CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24486): Updated Portuguese Translation ...
15:51:13mc2739pixelma: regarding r24476 and r24477, my previous commit corrected the Portuguese translation, the Turkish translation still needs to be corrected and I have to leave for work now.
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16:39:16TheSevenoh, wonderful. who would have thought that there is another clock hiding on the nano2g which we hadn't noticed yet?
16:39:47TheSevenfunny that pretty much everything seems to work without knowing about that one...
16:39:57Tornewhat's it for? :)
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16:56:52TheSevenTorne: if i knew that...
16:57:09Torneah :)
16:57:49TheSeveni love things that are completely undocumented in the datasheet, but written to by some init code
16:58:04Torneyeah, that's always a fun one
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17:12:13UnhelpfulTheSeven: it should be ok to change dma_callback in pcm-s5l8700.c from attribute((unused)) to used? <- stupidly said in wrong channel the first time :/
17:13:09TheSeven[17:11]<TheSeven>Unhelpful: no, it isn't
17:13:36Unhelpfulright... ok, why not? without attribute((used)) it fails to compile on eabi, because gcc removes the functions from the object file.
17:14:11*TheSeven needs to look up what those do exactly
17:14:33UnhelpfulTheSeven: "function might not be used" and "function is used" is what i recall
17:14:58Unhelpfuland since the function is static and never referenced in C code, gcc4.4 seems to get quite aggressive and remove it
17:14:59TheSevenactually I added the attribute((unused)) because gcc was throwing it away otherwise
17:15:18TheSevenactually it is used, gcc just doesn't get that
17:15:47TheSevenso if it compiles with attribute((used)) then it's fine
17:16:16Unhelpfulah... shall i see if it tosses it with used on gcc4.0?
17:17:08TheSevencould it be possible that attribute((used)) is a rather new thing that wasn't even recognized by older gcc versions?
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17:20:59Torneused stops it from being deleted by the optimiser, unused stops you from being warned that it's not used
17:21:16Torneif the function looks unreferenced byt is static then you probably need *both* :)
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17:21:36Tornei dunno if used suppresses the warning
17:23:44UnhelpfulTorne: i would expect it to since you're *telling* the compiler it's used
17:26:24Tornewell, yes
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17:26:27Tornebut it doesn't say it does :)
17:27:36Torneused/unused exist in 3.4 and later at least, maybe earlier?
17:27:41Torneso it should be fine..
17:28:17Unhelpfuli don't get a warn for used on 4.0.3
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17:31:27TheSevenok, that's fine then
17:32:14Unhelpfulape codec also needs a smaller reciprocal table to link under eabi... at some point i'd like the build system to figure out how large that can be.
17:34:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:36:57CIA-8New commit by unhelpful (r24487): Label dma_callback in pcm-s5l8700.c as used so that gcc won't discard it, and cause a link failure on eabi.
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17:44:13BlastTyrantJdGordon: sorry about last night - I forgot to set my away status... I was just reading through the logs - I guess that I stirred up a hornets nest with the wps/sbs backdrops :o
17:45:48BlastTyrantI was thinking about it this morning though - what about conditional backdrops with %X or being able to conditionally set it in %cs
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17:46:10BlastTyrantwould that be easier than fudging around with these "fixes"?
17:46:32BlastTyrantthat way there would only be one backdrop active at a time, instead of 2
17:46:43JdGordonno. That is just as nasty, but moves the nastiness to the user
17:46:45JdGordonwhich is worse
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18:04:56kugelcan we release soon?
18:06:17JdGordonbuild the required release files
18:06:27JdGordonor ssh into my box and build them from there if oyu want
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18:06:35JdGordononly is working for me
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18:10:00gevaertsthere are two new translation patches on flyspray. It would be nice to have those
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18:28:56pixelmaturkish needs a nicer fix still in the release branch
18:29:09piotrekmhello, while building wpseditor (from latest svn) i get "No rule to make target `', needed by `all'." error. Any help?
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18:29:52kugelpixelma: I think it's the other way around
18:29:58kugelpiotrekm: better stop trying
18:30:03kugelit hasn't been touched in ages
18:30:45piotrekmso the only way to make a wps is to write one by hand?
18:31:32kugelor to fix wpseditor :)
18:33:27piotrekmit would be easier to learn wps i suppose;>
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18:37:57gevaertspamaury: I think we ended up overdesigning the thing
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18:39:14gevaertsHow about a setting that switches between MTP and MSC, one that enables or disables HID (the one that's there), and possibly one that reverses the connect-with-button-pressed logic, and leave serial to the debug menu
18:39:43pamauryAll in the settings menu ? Yes, I can do this
18:40:27gevaertsif we end up getting more device classes, we can change it, but right now I think there's no need to overcomplicate things
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18:55:22bertrikjobec, I did the clip v1 runtime benchmark again (now with mp3) and I still have a much longer runtime, so it's not the codec that explains the difference
18:57:12jobeci just noticed. i guess i'll have to re-run the test. it's not only the difference to your results, but also the almost 3x difference between rb and of
18:57:29pixelmakugel: well, Turkish doesn't have a fix at all in the release branch if I didn't miss something
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18:58:01CIA-8New commit by bluebrother (r24488): Update Português Brasileiro translation for Rockbox Utility. ...
18:58:05bertrikjobec, I think funman had a clip v1 runtime quite close to yours
18:58:24kugelyea, but trunk needs a nicer fix and the band-aid in trunk is sufficient for the branch, isn't it?
18:58:31bertrikmy bootloader might be pretty old though
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19:03:50moosamiconn: hi, nice to see that I not the same that noticed the boot slowdown because sbs handling
19:04:26moosJdGordon already asked benches because he doesn't trust us :/ StThomas? ;)
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19:09:26moos_I didn't made any benche/tests yet. Just basing on dircache ie: when it leave usb vs at boot
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19:10:04gevaertsamiconn: do we want archos flash updates for 3.5?
19:10:48 Quit casainho (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.16/2009121602])
19:10:54*gevaerts is going over ReleaseChecklist
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19:20:08gevaertsThat Spanish update in FS #10958 looks a bit strange to me
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19:25:09bluebroth3rhow's the 3.5 release coming along?
19:26:19AlexPWhat is outstanding?
19:26:28AlexPI see a couple of translations on flyspray
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19:26:33gevaertsthere are two new translation updates that we might want
19:26:57AlexPI'm not sure about the Spanish one - he says he doesn't know what remote meant and translated it literally
19:27:04AlexPThat could mean anything :)
19:27:04_zicgevaerts, which ones ?
19:27:16AlexPspanish, brazillian portuguese
19:27:25gevaertsI'm doing a test run for the release builds, but I'm waiting for amiconn's reply about the flash thing
19:28:29bluebroth3rok, so it makes sense to release a new rbutil tonight.
19:28:58bluebroth3rnote to self: try to send out a translation update remainder a couple of days before the next release
19:29:00*gevaerts was just looking at "14. make sure we have a rbutil version around that can install the new version" :)
19:30:18linuxstbI was also wondering about the promotion of the e200v2 and fuze to "stable" - do we have a released rbutil for them?
19:31:28Jdgordon_we will if a new rbutil comes out
19:31:46linuxstbWe don't currently then...
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19:34:27bluebroth3rlinuxstb: well, with all the target renaming we actually need to release rbutil these days so this isn't a problem
19:34:31gevaertsAlexP: I also wonder about the large number of other changes in there. It seems like the diff is between seriously different versions
19:35:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:36:31amiconngevaerts: Do you remember any critical generic low-level fixes (e.g. in fat or file code)?
19:36:42amiconnExcluding dircache, that is
19:37:24gevaertshm, there's r24134
19:37:40bluebroth3ranyone wants to update the french or finnish translations for rbutil? Or any other that's kinda poor right now? Current status:
19:37:40linuxstbbluebroth3r: So what's the status of the current rbutil with respect to the release? Do we need a new rbutil at the same time as the release is made?
19:38:45bluebroth3rlinuxstb: in general we don't need a new rbutil release with a rockbox release. But with the target renames a lot of things are broken due to rbutil using old names (f.e. themes installation)
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19:39:38bluebroth3rI'm not aware of any problematic issues being open right now, so I think it's good to release rbutil now
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19:40:00bluebroth3runless someone has serious showstoppers and speaks up now
19:40:40gevaertsamiconn: the dircache fixes went in after the branch. r24134 is the only thing I see in the log that fixes a real issue
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19:42:50gevaertsgah, we didn't even start on the release notes yet!
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19:47:32gevaertsthere's a bug in
19:47:45kugelsure, Jdgordon_ thought it :p
19:48:14amiconngevaerts: That one doesn't affect bootbox since bootbox is neither multivolume nor does it ever write to disk
19:48:20gevaertsif we do two builds for the same config name, it only keeps the last one. This is a problem for the ipod video build
19:48:25gevaertsamiconn: ah, right
19:48:28amiconnSo I think we don't need new flash images
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19:48:41gevaertsok. That makes things easier :)
19:49:13kugelgevaerts: how does the build server handle it? it somehow names it ipodvideo64mb doesn't it?
19:49:37gevaertskugel: the build server uses unrelated scripts
19:51:26AlexPgevaerts: I can have a stab at some release notes if you like
19:51:41gevaertsAlexP: I suspect we'll need them...
19:55:36 Quit Grahack (Quit: Tu m'as vu ?)
19:56:40gevaertsI could rebuild the offending ones by hand I guess, unless B4gder quickly fixes the script :)
19:56:58B4gdersorry, I'm busy atm
19:57:41Unhelpfulbeing able to prod the build server and have it make clients pull and build the release branch would be a *very* big nice-to-have, i'd think...
19:58:08linuxstbUnhelpful: Do we trust the clients to build a release?
19:58:41Jdgordon_why not?
19:58:44Unhelpfullinuxstb: we actively promote the use of current builds ("see if you still have that problem with current" etc)
19:59:01CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24489): Remove strings that were filled with the English translations so they can be translated properly. These were committed in r24476 and r24477.
19:59:39*linuxstb wishes people would simply answer his question.... ;)
20:00:39Unhelpfulbut i did! either we ought not to tell people to use current, or the build system is safe for releases. ;)
20:01:29 Join efyx_ [0] (
20:01:49gevaertstools/release/ doesn't do anything at all :\
20:02:03Jdgordon_neither does
20:02:10Jdgordon_even after fixing it for the file
20:02:16 Quit vegtoruci (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:02:52gevaerts"next if ($builds{$b}{configname} < 3); # no variants" is broken
20:03:07gevaertsremoving that makes it work
20:03:25Jdgordon_linuxstb: the only reason I could think of to not trust the clients would be when the download links point to the wrong build, but if thats a problem with the web script then?
20:03:45gevaertswe don't know...
20:04:28Unhelpfulmaybe we need to hold a competition to design rogue buildclients, and buildserver features for detecting them? ;)
20:05:10 Quit piotrekm (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:05:50*Unhelpful thinks that using the buildserver for releases should be fine, but 1) it's not already designed to do this 2) people who know it might know of outstanding issues that i don't
20:06:23CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24490): Fix yellow by removing strings that were not completely translated so they can be translated properly.
20:06:50linuxstbUnhelpful: My thoughts are that a) We have less control over the build clients; b) Is there any reason to use them? I'm guessing a full set of builds don't take _that_ long, and are only needed every few months, not 20 times a day.
20:07:16linuxstbBut yes, I can't think of any actual reason why they would produce bad release builds...
20:07:23gevaertsa full set of builds takes 18 minutes
20:07:27AlexPHow is the bugs closed bit of the release notes usually generated? I've searched flyspray for bugs closed since the last release, but given our cleanup there are 204...
20:08:56Jdgordon_just pick a bunch that you think are important enough to mention
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20:09:39AlexPAnyone have any they want in?
20:10:07gevaertsAlexP: I'd include the ones that were marked as known in ReleaseNotes34
20:12:39AlexPI'm nearly done - brief pause for dinner coming up :)
20:12:53pixelmawhat's with plugins that still have issues (with controls) on some targets?
20:13:18Jdgordon_they still have issues
20:13:54pixelmayes, they were disabled in some previous releases on affected targets
20:14:22pixelmaI believe it was forgotten in 3.4
20:17:16pixelmamc2739: deleting the complete phrase wouldn't have been necessary, now you lose some already translated strings
20:17:40 Quit PaulJam_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:17:41pixelmamaybe "wasn't necessary"
20:18:54*pixelma grumbles at Blue_Dude
20:20:16CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24491): Português Brasileiro Lang Update ...
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20:21:52 Quit Tomis (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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20:21:59mc2739pixelma: What should I have done?
20:22:20 Quit jhulst (Changing host)
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20:24:23mc2739pixelma: could I just remove the targets that were not translated?
20:24:37CIA-8New commit by gevaerts (r24492): Some fixes to make the release scripts actually work. These are not necessarily very clean, and the ipod video build is still problematic due to ...
20:26:14kugelAlexP: I generated the list by going through the svn log
20:26:15CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24493): Português Brasileiro Lang Update ...
20:26:37AlexPkugel: urg :/
20:26:40kugeland only included those which weren't opened after the release
20:26:46pixelmamc2739: yes, when removed from <source> too - then they'll show up as "source section differs from the english!" and gets the translators attention
20:28:06mc2739pixelma: OK, thanks for the info. I will correct them.
20:29:24pixelmanice, thanks. I'm a bit confused what I would have to change if I wanted to commit now because I already started on something and things changed
20:30:43kugelit looks like 3.5 isn't going to be the new 3.0 :)
20:31:26pixelmasomeone subscribed to the svn mailing list should give a hint to Blue_Dude though
20:32:10gevaertsDo we expect more commits before we can release?
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20:34:37*gevaerts started the builds. If anything new gets committed, they can always be restarted
20:38:11CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24494): Add back previously translated strings that were removed in r24489
20:40:06mc2739gevaerts: Can I commit 2 more language updates?
20:40:12gevaertsgo ahead
20:40:49CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24495): Add back previously translated strings that were removed in r24490
20:42:36*linuxstb wonders if it would make sense to commit to both the branch and trunk in the same commit
20:42:38CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24496): Spanish translation update ...
20:43:06gevaertslinuxstb: if you feel brave :)
20:43:22linuxstbgevaerts: I'm speaking hypothetically - I have nothing to commit...
20:44:14Jdgordon_how would that work? the diff isnt necessarily the same for both branches
20:44:38linuxstbYou specify both paths in the same commit.
20:44:50kugelis that possible?
20:44:55 Quit paulk_ (Quit: Ciao)
20:44:59gevaertsmc2739: all done?
20:45:12mc2739gevaerts: yes, thanks
20:45:15linuxstbkugel: IIUC, svn is just a single tree - it doesn't know about branches, trunks, etc, those are just conventions.
20:45:16gevaertspixelma: do you have more to commit?
20:45:19gevaertsAnyone else?
20:45:40pixelmano, I haven't
20:45:52pixelmanothing for the release anyways
20:46:01kugellinuxstb: yes, but IIUC the only pathes you can specify on svn commit is the path to the files to commit in the working copy
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20:46:22gevaertskugel: the point is that a working copy isn't restricted to one branch
20:46:31mc2739gevaerts: wait, I got a yellow to fix
20:46:40amiconnUnhelpful: Found what I did with the filters? :)
20:47:03gevaertsmc2739: that's not a release target. I'd vote to ignore it on the branch
20:47:26kugelI imagine you could checkout from / and edit both branch/ and trunk/ at the same time..but manually each
20:48:10linuxstbkugel: Yes, you would of course need to make the same changes in both. e.g. do an svn diff in trunk/ and then apply that diff in the branch.
20:48:46Jdgordon_linuxstb: did you see my change to the scrolling code last night? thats mostly your code yeah?
20:48:59kugelI also imagine that a final big merge of apps/lang would've created less work (and noise) than those 20 "bi-commits" we had
20:49:13kugelor more
20:49:28linuxstbJdgordon_: No, it's not really my code. Although svn will probably blame me for it, as I made changes to it for viewports. (but not any real changes)
20:50:25*kugel hopes that can be reverted soon
20:51:11mc2739gevaerts: ok
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20:57:20CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24497): Fix yellow - remove untranslated string
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21:03:12CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24498): Spanish translation update ...
21:04:34pixelmamc2739: thanks for taking over the work on the language fixes and updates btw.
21:05:45mc2739pixelma: glad to help
21:07:39kugelAlexP: seems busy with the release notes :)
21:08:11AlexPThis bugs fixed thing is an enormous pain in the arse
21:08:16AlexPBut I'm nearly done :)
21:08:24kugelyes it is :)
21:10:06gevaertshm, I'm sure a voice file should be more than 5K
21:11:08domonokyvoicefiles smaller then ~500k are surely broken.
21:11:33domonokyyou normally get that when genlang somehow chokes on the lang file.
21:11:42kugelAlexP: I'm not sure if bugs that didn't exist before 3.4 should be mentioned
21:11:56AlexPwhy not?
21:12:08AlexPThey have been fixed since the last release
21:12:19gevaertsmy festival installation is broken
21:12:48kugelit seems weird to list bugs that came up and were fixed between two releases
21:13:51bluebroth3rdomonoky: ok, any showstopper that came up? Otherwise I'd like to start rolling the rbutil release
21:14:11domonokybluebroth3r: go ahead.
21:14:11gevaertsWhat's the usual festival voice for releases?
21:15:07pixelmaa too big one for Archos targets (and default settings) :\
21:15:16domonokyit might be good to test the release voicefiles for the old archos ones on target. they were too big in nearly all last releases :-)
21:16:27AlexPkugel: Feel free if you want
21:17:13pixelmaunfortunately I don't know how much RAM is there (and so how big the file can be) on the FM-Recorder which is probably the one with the least free RAM (being the most feature packed)
21:17:18AlexP Please feel free to edit/fix/add/whatever
21:17:26kugelAlexP: I don't care too much; many fixed bugs suggest we actually work on this piece of software at least :)
21:17:51kugelbut when I asked for 3.3 I was told to better leave them out
21:18:26AlexPI'm not too bothered either way, I just can't be arsed to check them
21:18:39AlexPActually, it'd be fairly easy
21:18:54AlexPCheck the first FS after the last release
21:18:59kugel"date opened" is right next to the title :)
21:19:00AlexPI might do in a minute
21:19:15AlexPI'm not going to click through all of them
21:19:35kugelyea that works too
21:20:09kugelwe need 1 commit still (if it didn't happen already)!
21:20:25kugelin www/ though, e200v2, fuze are still under unstable :)
21:20:42CIA-8New commit by bluebrother (r24499): Bump rbutil version to 1.2.4.
21:20:45AlexPyeah, I was going to mention that
21:20:53AlexPI put them in stable in the release notes
21:20:53gevaertsok, as long as it's not in the 3.5 branch, I won't scream at you
21:21:15mc2739kugel: I have a patch for the web page already
21:21:52gevaertshuh? Why do I only get 23 voice files?
21:22:13CIA-8New commit by bluebrother (r24500): Tag rbutil 1.2.4 release.
21:22:26domonokykugel: also change that status in tools/ (svn trunk) then.
21:22:36kugelI think JdGordon did that
21:22:38gevaertsah, missing hwcodec ones
21:23:25*kugel wonders if it still makes sense to differentiate between the e200 versions on the site
21:23:28kugelwe support all
21:23:52domonokykugel: they need different builds, so we need to differentiate them..
21:23:54AlexPthere, gone
21:24:04kugeldomonoky: on the site
21:24:13domonokyah, you mean the frontpage ?
21:24:13kugelor front page even
21:24:59mc2739any comments? ->
21:25:00domonokyah, there it could be removed. but that would probably confuse people who already know the v2 issue :-)
21:25:59AlexPmc2739: I'd have e200v2 next to e200 and have an and before the last item
21:26:11AlexPMaybe with e200v1?
21:26:43Jdgordon_in that listing we shouldnt differentiate between the e200 models
21:27:01Jdgordon_and we send death threats to sansa if they resurrect that model line
21:28:17mc2739AlexP, Jdgordon_ - updated
21:28:39Jdgordon_maybe e200 series (all models)
21:28:59AlexPc200 series needs a not v2 doesn't it?
21:29:19domonokyjup, damn sansa.
21:30:18mc2739updated again
21:31:43Jdgordon_if that doesnt confuse people nothing will!
21:35:05gevaertsB4gder: release builds at
21:35:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:35:40gevaertsbuild, manual, voice and source
21:36:45CIA-8New commit by gevaerts (r24501): Tag the 3.5 release
21:37:47Jdgordon_gevaerts: what did you do to get the manuals and voices scriopts working?
21:38:18gevaertsJdgordon_: comment out the bit that was supposed to skip variants
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21:38:53gevaertsThe manual script has one more issue: it hangs on the e200r manual (which doesn't exist), so I killed that iteration
21:39:21gevaertsI also did the ipod video builds by hand to work around the bug that doesn't name the zip files properly in case of variants
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21:46:04*kugel added a sentence or two
21:47:05kugelgevaerts: e200 and e200r is actually the same build right?
21:47:41*kugel is confused
21:48:10kugelah I looked at the voices
21:48:10*AlexP corrected the English slightly :)
21:48:21bluebroth3rB4gder: can you move rbutil 1.2.4 to the download server? Files are at
21:48:21kugelyes please :)
21:48:23gevaertskugel: uh, right...
21:49:30gevaertsif there are a few unneeded builds it doesn't really matter
21:49:40mc2739kugel: yes, except for bootloader
21:50:31kugelso we do the 3.5 dance now? \o/
21:50:43kugelor let's wait for B4gder
21:52:32AlexPWait for them to get moved :)
21:52:35AlexPThen e-mails etc
21:53:21kugelthis is surely the best release ever :)
21:55:37 Quit Strife89 (Quit: See ya.)
21:56:16Jdgordon_the next will be better
21:56:29 Quit Omlet (Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: ))
21:59:49*pixelma hopes early USB isn't broken again as it was last time
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22:00:44kugelI don't think anyone has checked
22:01:00kugelthat should be on the ReleaseTodoList :)
22:03:02B4gderbluebroth3r: done!
22:03:29bluebroth3rthanks :)
22:03:33AlexPB4gder: Did you see the release builds?
22:03:42B4gderI did, I'm on it
22:03:48AlexPCoolio :)
22:04:19kugelit's a pity that the beast is still not stable'ized :(
22:04:32*Jdgordon_ groans at pixelma's hopes
22:04:43Jdgordon_unless we are told its borken noone is going to know it is
22:05:07pixelmayou don't read forums
22:05:15kugelmaybe I find time to work on the yh925, nothing really stops it from being stable except lazyness
22:05:37pixelmathere were a few reports last time
22:05:44kugeldito for the other yh
22:07:13bluebroth3rwhat's missing for the beast?
22:07:40B4gderok, the 3.5 files are in position
22:07:45AlexPbluebroth3r: Some single boot don't work I believe
22:07:47kugelmc2739: commit the www/ patch?
22:07:53AlexPDoes rbutil support it?
22:08:52AlexPrelease e-mail time?
22:08:54mc2739is it ok to add the release to project news also?
22:09:13mc2739^^ for www
22:09:16kugelthe new targets?
22:09:30kugelor the release?
22:09:31bluebroth3rAlexP: no, because rbutil expect a mountpoint −− and until the bootloader is installed there is none.
22:09:34kugelyes to both anyway :P
22:09:40bluebroth3rthere's beastpatcher though.
22:09:55CIA-8New commit by mc2739 (r24502): Promote e200v2 and Fuze to stable and announce Release 3.5
22:10:27AlexPOK, mail coming up
22:10:43bluebroth3rand for the dualboot issue (my beast is affected) we could simply make dualboot the recommended install
22:11:01mc2739B4gder: Can you update the webserver?
22:11:05*kugel finds the "(all models)" redundant, but well
22:11:16mc2739blame Jdgordon_
22:11:23bluebroth3ras for rbutil support I was considering adding build-only support. Bootloader installation requires some more fundamental changes (like handling of a configuration without mountpoint and rescanning later)
22:11:37B4gderweb updated
22:11:42CIA-8New commit by Domonoky (r24503): romote e200v2 and Fuze to stable in this file too.
22:12:30mc2739Is anyone doing the forum announcement?
22:12:45kugelwho's doing the press release ? :)
22:12:46Topic"3.5 has been released! | RC builds at | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:12:55AlexPkugel: I just sent the release mail
22:13:06*Jdgordon_ doesnt think the rc build link needs to stay in the topic
22:13:08B4gdermaybe the rc builds mention could be taken off the topic
22:13:08AlexPforum coming up
22:13:15AlexPoops, missed that
22:13:20kugelbtw I still get the dynamic playlist erase warning
22:13:20bluebroth3rfixed rbutil bugs in the Rockbox release notes?
22:13:26domonokyB4gder: please update the rockbox trunk on the webserver too, (or is this part automatic ? )
22:13:29kugelJdgordon_: didn't you mean to fix it?
22:13:44Topic"3.5 has been released! | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:13:56B4gderdomonoky: the rockbox trunk for what purpose you mean?
22:14:19domonokywhere the sits (my last commit)
22:14:30Jdgordon_kugel: fix what?
22:14:36B4gderah right, yes that is separate
22:14:48B4gderit should happen by auto
22:14:55domonokyoki, good.
22:15:07 Quit Tomis (Quit: Tomis)
22:15:14*GodEater does the offical 3.5 tweet :)
22:15:15 Join Tomis [0] (~Tomis@
22:15:22 Quit Tomis (Client Quit)
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22:15:51bluebroth3rhow often are the mirrors synced?
22:16:02B4gderonce per hour
22:16:02Jdgordon_depends how far away you stand
22:16:31kugelwtf what?
22:17:41Jdgordon_how was I meant to know you were talking about that patch?
22:18:38Jdgordon_and even then, I still have no idea what you're tlaking abuot
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22:19:20kugelI thought you fixed the warning about deleting the dynamic playlist
22:19:47pixelmahmm... customisable statusbars
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22:21:20Jdgordon_kugel: pretend for the moment I'm clueless... start again?
22:21:37kugel" FS #9660 - Database selections trigger the dynamic playlist warning "
22:21:40kugelI still get that
22:22:48 Quit bmbl (Quit: Bye!)
22:23:05B4gderhm, the download page still says 3.4
22:23:12pixelmarr... and bubbles isn't completely fixed (well it's playable on all screens but on a few screens still a bit off in its layout. I forgot that I had something a bit more correct
22:23:56*GodEater learns about "ip address del" and puts it to good use
22:24:54pixelmaat the same time you might have forgotten which channel you are in, or?
22:26:08GodEaterum, not forgotten, just failed to observe
22:26:11*amiconn wonders where rockbox on his beast went...
22:26:11GodEatersorry :)
22:26:43 Quit _zic (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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22:28:12CIA-8New commit by dast (r24504): I heard we're on 3.5!
22:28:22GodEatercan we mend the download page?
22:28:28AlexPbluebroth3r: Feel free to remove them
22:28:42B4gderhm, now that was a weird commit id
22:28:52GodEatera weird commit comment
22:30:31Jake___Hi. Can anyone tell me how to ID the chipset of an MP3 player? I'm almost certain that I have a model that's a clone of something.
22:31:24B4gderJake___: 1) visual reading of the chips on the PCB 2) reading disassembly
22:31:56GodEaterand "clone" normally only means "looks like a well known player on the outside, but absolutely nothing like it technically"
22:32:13Jdgordon_right, now we are done with the release can we talk about how pointless they are again?
22:32:23GodEaterJdgordon_: no
22:32:24B4gderclone also often means Chinese, which limits the selection of chipsets used
22:32:32Jdgordon_especially how its obvious noone really had any interest in it this time
22:32:45bluebroth3rAlexP: done :)
22:32:46GodEaterour users did
22:32:52pixelmathere was more interest than last time
22:32:53B4gderJdGordon: I believe they have a point to many people outside of this channel
22:33:02GodEateryes indeed
22:33:30pixelmaeven (or because) it took a month longer
22:33:36Jdgordon_but we arnt doing this for them. we are doing this for we..
22:33:58GodEaterI think you're mistaken
22:34:34bluebroth3raren't we doing it for the fame? ;-)
22:34:56GodEaterand the women
22:34:58GodEaterand the power
22:35:09Jake___Damn. I don't suppose anyone knows if the Logik MP31002 is a rebranded version of something you've already ported Rockbox to?
22:35:47GodEaterJake___: even if it were (and I don't think it is), the chances of the drivers that need to go with it ALSO matching are virtually zero
22:38:17*B4gder fails to find any info online on the Logik MP31002 internals
22:39:17 Quit Strife89|Desktop (Quit: Maintenance.)
22:40:40*GodEater strips B4gder of his black google-fu belt
22:40:52GodEateryou must train harder grasshipper
22:40:56*B4gder hangs head
22:41:21Jake___I can tell you it seems to be a fairly typical USB flash memory job with a voice recorder, at least.
22:41:55B4gderif I was to guess blindly, I would say sigmatel
22:42:39pixelmasame as the Logik Dax?
22:42:55*Jake___ slaps his forehead. "I'm an idiot. It's got Sigma-Tel written on it somewhere, hasn't it?"
22:43:16B4gderit does?
22:43:30B4gdernow then I should at least get some points back ;-)
22:43:48Jake___Let me go find it.
22:43:49GodEaterB4gder: sheer blind luck does not award you points!
22:44:14*GodEater imagines the best way to find out about it's innards is to dismantle it.
22:46:20kugelreleases are good for us too, it makes us keeping it usable once in a while :9
22:48:41Jake___Back. And I misremembered; it's not got Sigma-Tel branding (wish I could remember where the manual went) but it's UI is almost identical to a Sigma-Tel one I had once.
22:50:15GodEaterJake___: take it apart - it's the best way
22:50:48Jake___It's also the way that's most likely to permanently trash it.
22:51:10krazykitnot if you're careful in pulling it apart
22:51:42B4gdermost devices are quite possibly to pick apart if you're gentle and careful
22:51:48B4gderpossible even
22:52:13Jdgordon_and *all* will eventually come apaprt with enough force :D
22:52:31Jake___On second thoughts, I might be able to; it's got screws, instead of being all-glued like I first thought.
22:52:32GodEateripods (in my experience) were by far the hardest to dismantle
22:52:35 Quit p3tur (Remote host closed the connection)
22:52:40 Quit Stephen__ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:52:48GodEaterand they still survive it ok
22:53:35*Jake___ just needs to buy a new, insanely tiny screwdriver first.
22:53:41GodEatereven if it's internally very similar to the Logik Dax, we never finished that port did we?
22:53:50*GodEater looks at linuxstb significantly
22:54:31B4gderJake___: that screwdriver might cost you more than that measly 2GB player you want to pick apart... :-)
22:55:28Jake___Not remotely, I'm afraid; no DAB function for a start. And I need it anyway; got a laptop CD drive in need of repair.
22:55:43 Quit petur (Quit: Zzzzzz)
22:55:49bertrikdo the usb ids (product/vendor id) look familiar to ones we already know?
22:59:01Jake___It's a Logik LOGMP31002, apparently.
22:59:03 Quit pamaury (Quit: abort();)
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23:00:48 Quit kugel (Quit: exit(0);)
23:01:31 Quit vegtoruci (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:01:53 Quit efyx_ (Remote host closed the connection)
23:05:05 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
23:05:06 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:06:35 Join saratoga [0] (~9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/x-yoagqextkpaelgdh)
23:07:53 Quit phanboy4 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:11:38 Join HontoniLinux [0] (
23:14:24*kugel syncing the pla rework patch is a pain :(
23:14:52gevaertskugel: you mean, *you* doing it is a pain, if someone else did it it wouldn't be? ;)
23:15:06kugelnot for me yes :)
23:15:10 Part Jake___
23:15:25Jdgordon_so commit it?
23:15:28Jdgordon_whats holding it back?
23:16:46 Join phanboy4 [0] (
23:16:46kugelthe work needed to sync it!
23:18:31*kugel why can't new targets follow the UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT button scheme :(
23:21:08Jdgordon_Stephen__: is the clip theme for the e200 you?
23:21:30Jdgordon_all I can say is... HAHAHAHA
23:22:14Jdgordon_(haha funny not haha bad)
23:22:37Stephen__got the idea for it last week
23:22:48Stephen__shame about the list being wrong but how and ever
23:23:05Jdgordon_you could drop the list viewport down another 8 pixels and it would work
23:23:30kugellol nice
23:23:52Stephen__yeah but the top level folder would still be blue right
23:24:12Jdgordon_what would be hillarious is if sansa sued us for (c) infringment or TM or something
23:24:36Stephen__ha how would they do that ?
23:24:48Jdgordon_you never know what they've trademarked
23:25:03Stephen__them two colours being used together ?
23:25:55Jdgordon_sure, why not?
23:26:18Stephen__then i'll change it ever so slightly but it will still look the same anyway.
23:26:34Jdgordon_no, dont worry about it
23:26:41Jdgordon_I'm just syaing it would be funny if that happened
23:26:41Stephen__i doubt they would anyway
23:26:48*Jdgordon_ was a warped sense of the rediculous
23:27:54*linuxstb sees the Logik LOGMP31002 appears to be stmp3504 -
23:28:11*linuxstb also sees that Jake____ left...
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23:29:37Stephen__in the release nots for 3.5 should e200v2 and fuze not be in stable ? or are you counting them stable after the release ?
23:31:08 Quit hebz0rl_ (Quit: Ex-Chat)
23:31:14Stephen__ - listed stable ports doesn't include the e200v2 or fuze
23:31:28Stephen__oops my mistake
23:31:29linuxstbIs the e200r supported by rbutil?
23:31:32Stephen__its c220v2
23:35:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:36:17 Join Dhraakellian [0] (
23:38:41HontoniLinuxHeya, it's my first time on here. Been lurking the forums/reading the wiki for a couple of months.
23:39:07HontoniLinuxBasically I'm looking into buying a new "MP3"-player, which is a current model (or at least still sold in retail) which works with rockbox/has progress made and likely to be supported in the future.
23:40:37HontoniLinuxI've looked some at the sansa models and the D2 (although this is slightly over budget). Any recommendations in terms of these models, or others for that matter?
23:42:18linuxstbHontoniLinux: The list of targets on the front page, and their categorisation is pretty accurate. i.e. anything in "stable" should be running Rockbox well. Anything in "unstable" will have problems of one kind or another.
23:43:25linuxstbTypically, the older the device, the better Rockbox runs on it. So your wish for a current model that runs Rockbox well is sadly not an option.
23:44:43HontoniLinuxlinuxstb: For the sake of hardware becoming too complex or just since there has been more time available for developing for it?
23:45:16linuxstbThe second. It generally takes a long time to port Rockbox to a new device, and by the time that happens, the device isn't sold new any more.
23:45:58HontoniLinuxThought so. The thing is basically that I don't mind running the original firmware for the time being.
23:46:29HontoniLinuxI'd just want a device that is (very) likely to be supported in the future. If it makes any sense.
23:46:59kugelTorne: ping
23:48:01saratogalinuxstb: its not supported by rbutil
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23:48:13linuxstbHontoniLinux: I don't think there's any devices in that category. Maybe the current Sansas, but no-one can guarantee that a port will be successful - there may be unsolved technical problems, or simply no-one spends the required time on it.
23:48:40linuxstbsaratoga: I didn't think so. But that's not what the home page says, or the 3.5 release notes....
23:48:59*linuxstb is aware the e200r has been in the "stable" list for a long time...
23:49:35 Quit bertrik (Quit: De groeten)
23:50:54HontoniLinuxlinuxstb: I'm aware there are no guarantees or anything. I'd be happy making a choice which probably would end up being good but if it doesn't it's not like it's the end of the world.
23:51:25linuxstbHontoniLinux: Why not just buy a device which is already supported by Rockbox? The Sansas for example are very easy to find used/refurbished.
23:51:52 Quit phanboy4 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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23:52:23 Quit Jdgordon_ (Changing host)
23:52:23 Join Jdgordon_ [0] (~836b0065@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
23:52:24 Join Saliver [0] (
23:52:30Saliverhey guys
23:52:38Saliverbig question from germany
23:53:07SaliverI just managed to put rockbox on my ipod mini second generation
23:53:28Saliverbut the bettery life decreases after that about 30% ?
23:53:53HontoniLinuxlinuxstb: I guess you have a point. Is the e260/e270 etc part of the e200?
23:54:02Saliveris it obviously when I'am usin rockbox?
23:54:24linuxstbHontoniLinux: Yes - that's what the "series" means. i.e. anything matching e2x0
23:54:42HontoniLinuxlinuxstb: Cheers
23:54:46linuxstbSaliver: How have you measured that decrease?
23:54:55Saliverits just a feeling
23:55:14Saliveras far as i know my battery should life about 18 hours
23:55:40saratogawell measure it and come back if its actually a problem
23:55:45bluebroth3rSaliver: so you just installed it and already had it running 18 hours?
23:55:45 Quit 15SAABJ07 (Client Quit)
23:55:48Saliverbut with rockbox its about 7 or 8 hours ?
23:55:54linuxstbOn some devices Rockbox has longer battery life than the original firmware, on others it has shorter. I don't know about the 2nd gen mini specifically.
23:56:21*bluebroth3r thinks the mini2g is ok but hasn't compared with OF
23:56:46Jdgordon_2nd gen mini has great batt life
23:56:51Jdgordon_easily 18 hours
23:56:52Saliveryeah its working like a charm
23:57:07*Jdgordon_ has a CF in it though so might be more than with a hard disk
23:57:10Saliverbut my battery is not that good
23:57:34SaliverJdgordon, did you tried it ?
23:57:53Jdgordon_try what?
23:58:22Salivertried rockbox with the ipod mini 2g
23:58:37Saliveri mean meassure the batterylife
23:58:46bluebroth3rSaliver: did you?

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