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#rockbox log for 2010-02-27

00:01:22 Join Tomis [0] (~Tomis@
00:02:56 Quit Tomis2 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:03:27 Quit captainkewlllll (Quit: Page closed)
00:09:32 Part froggyman
00:10:10 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
00:15:28 Quit piotrekm (Quit: piotrekm)
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00:19:15 Quit JdGordon_ (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
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00:20:22 Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
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00:26:46 Join kramer3d [0] (~kramer@unaffiliated/kramer3d)
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00:49:28 Quit ender` (Quit: I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I am not sure that what you heard is not what I meant.)
00:53:16Unhelpfulkugel: yeah, funman's attempt to test iram size hangs on write-to-ram (apparently).
00:55:47Unhelpfulleavittx: do you need fractional exponent, fractional base, or both?
00:56:56 Join froggyman [0] (
00:57:08 Quit Schmogel (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:57:43Unhelpfuli would expect binary exponentiation could handle fractional base *fairly* well - i think one multiply per bit of size of exponent, and one per set bit. but only for integer exponents.
00:58:38leavittxUnhelpful: I need power =)
00:59:34Unhelpfulugh. well, binexp will at least handle the whole part fairly quickly, then you just need to find a good algorithm for the fractional part and multiply the results.
00:59:42 Quit toffe82 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158])
01:00:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:02:19 Join dfkt_ [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
01:02:24Unhelpfulthe *basic* formula is r = 1; m = 1; while (y) { if (y & 1) r *= m; m *= x; y >>= 1; }
01:02:38 Join burp [0] (
01:03:01Unhelpfulobviously for a fixed-point base those multiplies need to be fixed-point, so they'd each be a long multiply with a corrective shift.
01:03:18leavittxwhere can I find an example? because I'm not very familiar with such things. If I were, I wouldn't ask.
01:03:30leavittxsome plugin, etc...
01:03:37leavittxI don't know
01:03:39burpdoes anyone know what the maximum mpeg bitrate can be on an ipod nano 1g?
01:04:43Unhelpfulleavittx: ah, there are examples for fixed-point math all over - nearly all lossy codecs on rockbox should be using them, and any of the plugins that need to use fractional values - i know that at least pictureflow and fractal use fixed-point values.
01:04:49 Quit dfkt (Disconnected by services)
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01:06:16 Join Strife89|PalmTX [0] (~cstrife89@
01:06:18linuxstbburp: You're talking about mpeg video?
01:06:36 Quit bertrik (Quit: De groeten)
01:07:56linuxstbIt's hard to say - I doubt you need to go very high to get good quality though, the screen resolution is tiny. Just experiment...
01:08:01 Join phanboy4 [0] (
01:08:04leavittxUnhelpful: I've just stolen some functions from pdbox, now going to test speed of them. After that I will look closer on your advices.
01:08:04burpok :)
01:08:29burpjust tried it.. around ~550kbit/s with 192kbit audio still works
01:08:54linuxstbI would expect that to be more than good enough. Was it?
01:09:08burpit is :>
01:09:27*Unhelpful doubts we have an explicit "maximum" bitrate at all - eventually buffers might be too small, and certainly you'll reach a point where the device can't decode fast enough...
01:10:06 Quit Farthen (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
01:10:08burpyes, I meat maximum by point where device isn't fast enough anymore
01:11:15burpmencoder vqmin=3 seems to produce good quality with low enough bitrates ~<= 500kbit
01:11:23 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow)
01:11:53Unhelpfulyes, very very tiny screen helps there ;)
01:11:59burpvqmin=2 might get above 550-600 which produces dropouts
01:12:41Unhelpfulcan't you use vqmin=2 and just set a peak bitrate? although 2 is likely excessive for most use...
01:13:52linuxstbI don't know if it's improved in recent years, but I seem to remember mencoder's bitrate control was quite poor and it ignored any attempts to limit it...
01:14:13burpwell, vqmin=3 seems fine
01:15:58linuxstbburp: So it looks like you answered your own question ;)
01:16:13burpseems so :>
01:20:17leavittxNow I'm looking for some replacement for malloc(). I wanna try buffer_alloc(), so what is "init" method? Where can I read about it? ;)
01:21:40JdGordondont touch that
01:22:18leavittxI just have read
01:23:02leavittxThis comes after Allocate on the Heap.
01:23:13Unhelpfulleavittx: you need to make a big buffer/array and allocate memory from it yourself. we have several malloc libraries for plugin and there is also buflib which uses integer handles.
01:23:31linuxstbleavittx: The replacement for malloc is generally to design your code to not require it - i.e. use static buffers.
01:23:40Unhelpfulyou could also use rb->bufopen but that will fail in many cases during playback
01:25:06leavittxUnhelpful: at least bufopen has strange params (%
01:25:27Unhelpfulleavittx: they're not strange, it's simply not malloc. ;)
01:25:35linuxstbleavittx: How much memory do you need?
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01:25:54 Quit Strife89|PalmTX (Quit: Low battery logging off.)
01:25:55Unhelpfulbut i meant bufalloc, not bufopen, actually. :)
01:26:43leavittxlinuxstb: depends on :)
01:27:13leavittxUnhelpful: =)
01:29:08leavittxlinuxstb: I use linked list structure. What will you recommend me?
01:29:49linuxstbDepends on your answer to my question...
01:29:55leavittxSo I don't know the exact size (how much elements).
01:30:39leavittxI read data dynamically, from file.
01:31:18linuxstbThe devices your code will run on don't have an infinite supply of RAM (or any swap). So you need to have a rough idea of your code's memory usage.
01:31:41linuxstbAnd do you want your code to run whilst Rockbox is still playing music?
01:31:53 Part froggyman
01:32:32leavittxlinuxstb: It will not exceed 1 megabyte, all right?
01:33:15leavittxlinuxstb: both variants with music are acceptable :)
01:33:42Unhelpfulleavittx: you can ask rockbox for a pointer to, and the length of, the unused space in the plugin buffer. and yes, from there you get to manage the memory yourself. we have libraries for this. ;)
01:36:54leavittxBtw, I have my own (university project) memory managing library with first fit algorythm. But it's quite strange :-\
01:38:08leavittxCan I use TLSF in my plugin? :)
01:38:35leavittxIs that a good choice?
01:39:15 Quit kramer3d (Quit: Leaving)
01:39:20*Unhelpful thinks we also have a best-fit allocator - that might be better as you can't compact.
01:39:42 Join srbaker [0] (~srbaker@
01:39:45srbakerheya folks
01:40:10srbakeri have an ipod plug in my car; i don't suppose rockbox supports the interface software?
01:40:18srbakerie: reporting the song name and stuff over the cable?
01:40:41srbakerif i were to put rockbox on my ipod nano, is it likely to still work through the stereo in my car for song change, etc?
01:40:54 Join Barahir [0] (
01:41:25Unhelpfulsrbaker: *maybe*. it probably either uses the apple accessory protocol (some such devices will work with rockbox, others not), or accesses the ipod as a disk. and you can install rockbox and still run apple's firmware :)
01:41:48linuxstbleavittx: The plugin buffer on most targets is 512KB - for your code and data. As Unhelpful said, your plugin can get a pointer to the unused memory in the plugin buffer. If you want more than that, you can stop audio playback and grab the large (normally around 28MB) audio buffer.
01:42:03srbakeri don't understand installing rockbox but still running apple's firmware?
01:42:36linuxstbleavittx: But we can't tell you the best way to use that RAM without know what your plugin is doing. Personally, I would try and avoid malloc-like allocation if at all possible.
01:42:46Unhelpfulsrbaker: it supports dual-boot. if the accessory cable in your car doesn't work with rockbox you can shut down the nano and boot apple's firmware.
01:43:17Unhelpfullinuxstb: malloc-like is *ok* if you are allocating and not freeing very often, or if frees tend to be done in the same order as allocations.
01:43:22srbakerwell, that would defeat the purpose for me, i want to play my music in ogg vorbis
01:44:50Unhelpfulsrbaker: well, all i can say is go ahead and try. and if it doesn't work, you may be able to help us make it work, but that will mean a bit of work on your end, and getting in touch with somebody who knows the accessory protocol code.
01:45:01leavittxUnhelpful, linuxstb: and what about TLSF (#include "codecs/lib/tlsf/src/tlsf.h")?
01:45:14Unhelpfulleavittx: don't know anything about it. :)
01:45:25srbakeri was hoping it was a simple answer, but i'm happy with "try and let us know" as well :)
01:45:54*linuxstb neither, apart from the fact that if it's in the codec lib, you can't use it in plugins (without copy/paste or changes to the Rockbox build scripts)
01:46:18Unhelpfulsrbaker: sorry, there are far too many accessory protocol devices for us to already know if specific ones work. we have a chart somewhere, let me find it.
01:47:05Unhelpfulhere are the ones we know about:
01:48:03leavittxguys, look at"> , Big numbers - I'm stupid :(
01:48:05srbakeroh, interesting
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02:01:49 Quit perfectdrug_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
02:07:40 Quit moos (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
02:07:59TorneJdGordon: well, i suggest you try just writing to some high address in the top 32mb on your player
02:08:02Torneand see if that dies
02:08:11Torneand if not, see if you can read it as if it were mirrored.
02:08:29Tornemirrored would be great because that means you can detect ram in like two lines of code.
02:08:51Tornei would've done this myself ages ago if i actually had a 32mb ipod
02:08:54Unhelpfulwrite a few values and see if they appear at the mirrored address?
02:08:59Tornewell, just one really
02:09:32UnhelpfulTorne: at least two, in the event that the address already had the first value in it ;)
02:09:42TorneUnhelpful: bah
02:10:16Unhelpfulwhat? it's only a 1/(2^32) chance, that's relatively likely. ;)
02:10:28JdGordonsomething like (char*)0x3fff000 = 0xdeadbeef?
02:10:42JdGordonthat needs another 0
02:10:46Torneno it doesn't
02:10:53Tornealso not char*
02:10:56Torneyou probably want:
02:11:00Unhelpfulthat would be (int*)
02:11:43Torne*(int*)0x1fff000 = 0xdeadbeef; *(int*)0x3fff000 = 0xfeedface; splashf("%08x", *(int*)0x1fff000);
02:11:58Torneif it dies with an abort on the second write then we have to do this the hard way
02:12:02Torneif it prints feedface we win
02:12:34Torneif it's still deadbeef then the hardware designers need a kick in the face but we can still do it with a couple more lines :)
02:12:49 Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.)
02:13:10JdGordonDEADBEEF :)
02:13:12Unhelpfulif there's no abort and it's not mirrored what exactly *can* we test? that writes to >32MB have no effect?
02:14:00TorneUnhelpful: if it's not mirrored and deosn't abort then yes, probably writes will have no effect and reads will return garbage
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02:14:27Torneunfortunately there exists hardware where reads to dead memory areas return whatever is on the bus from last time ;)
02:14:39Tornealso the cache might fuck things up
02:14:49Torneit would be best to do this before the cache was enabled, but not sure how practical that is
02:15:27UnhelpfulTorne: surely write/flush/read might do it?
02:15:28Tornejust try it at runtime for now will do
02:15:42TorneUnhelpful: well that's why i wrote the code in the way i did above
02:15:48Tornesuch that it reads a different address to the write
02:15:56JdGordonso that splash didnt help us.. what should I try now?
02:15:57Torneoh er wait
02:16:01TorneJdGordon: what happened?
02:16:09Torneyou probably need to blow the cache away
02:16:11JdGordonsplashed deadbeef
02:16:16Tornei forgot about the cache
02:16:24Tornedo the first write
02:16:33Torneclean and invalidate the cache
02:16:39UnhelpfulTorne: doesn't the PP cache on physical address?
02:16:41Tornethen same again after the second write
02:16:51TorneUnhelpful: i have no idea
02:16:54Torneit doesn't matter, though
02:17:04Tornethe cache won't know about mirroring of memory and the like
02:17:07JdGordonpretend I don't know how to flush the cache
02:17:12Torneso just clean and invalidate after each access
02:17:17Tornei also forget. one sec
02:17:41UnhelpfulTorne: but then the cache shouldn't break tests for mirroring?
02:17:52TorneUnhelpful: it will break the code i wrote above
02:18:02Tornebecause the read of the low address will still return what you wrote to the low address
02:18:07Tornebecause it doesn't know you overwrote it
02:18:38UnhelpfulTorne: ah. duh.
02:18:51TorneJdGordon: cpucache_invalidate() should do
02:19:13 Quit Barahir (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
02:19:25Torneevery OS and MMU decides to describe the combinations of cache ops different
02:19:52Torneclean/flush/invalidate/purge.. there are at least four words used to describe only three possible operations, of which one is the other two combined ;)
02:20:44amiconnTorne, JdGordon: Just use the uncached alias for probing
02:20:45JdGordonbah, still deadbeef
02:21:06Torneamiconn: ..where is that? :)
02:21:15TorneJdGordon: that's really annoying, if so :)
02:22:00amiconnWith our cache controller setup, that is
02:22:03Torneok do that then :)
02:22:12amiconnThe actual offset differs depending on PP version
02:22:52TorneJdGordon: anyway if this doesn't work either then just try writing to the top bank and then reading it back
02:23:00Tornevia the uncached alias
02:23:21TorneJdGordon: woo, with the uncached address? so it's just mirrored, but the cache was interfering?
02:23:35Tornethat's awesome then
02:23:43Tornebecause it means that those three lines are enough
02:23:45 Quit Casainho (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
02:23:52Tornei suggest you tidy it up and commit :):)
02:24:03Torneand, yaknow. make it a panic, not a splash :)
02:24:59Torneanyway time i went to bed
02:26:25Tornehave fun with that ;)
02:26:53JdGordonoh, I didnt use UNCACHED_ADDR() for the read.. is that going to change anything?
02:27:08Unhelpfulfor bonus points have the 32MB build detect 64MB and splash that you might want to change builds?
02:27:20UnhelpfulJdGordon: if you cleaned the cache in between then it should be fine.
02:29:00JdGordonoh, I'm a bloody idiot :p
02:32:26JdGordon ? it splashes deadbeef but then goes into that if anyway?
02:33:59 Quit evilnick (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:33:59JdGordoncrap, i gtg
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02:43:18 Part srbaker
02:48:32 Quit ecio (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone -
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02:49:38 Join Leif [0] (~62ca0739@gateway/web/freenode/x-niplguvjtsjkwgzq)
02:50:45LeifHello, I've just boght a sansa fuze in the hopes that I could put rockbox on it. Anyway, in the manual, I read the line: " It is possible that installation of the bootloader may lead to you permanently losing the ability to playback files with DRM."
02:51:15LeifSo I rushed to Google to see if I could find any stories about people loosing DRM playing capabilities on their players after installing rockbox.
02:51:34LeifI couldn't find anything though. Do any of you know any, or where I can find more information?
02:51:50LeifOh, and here is the page I'm reffering to:
02:53:38kugelpeople have reported the DRM issues went away after some RTC fixes, but we can't guarantee
02:54:36Leifkugel: Thanks
02:55:01LeifAlthough, I'm not looking for any garantees, I'm just curious to learn more about why on earth installing rockbox should make a difference.
02:55:07 Join [Aru] [0] (
02:55:13kugelLeif: generally no rockbox developer uses DRM infected files so you're on your own there
02:55:42kugelrockbox on the fuze is totally worth it anyway :)
02:55:42Leifkugel: Understandable (I don't either), thanks anyway. :)
02:56:10Leifkugel: Agreed, I wouldn't have bought the fuze if I didn't have the chance to put rockbox on it.
02:56:29[Aru]i found a bug or something like that on ipod nano 2G, where can i report it?
02:56:50[Aru]it gives a kernel panic 'o'
02:57:15kugelanother stkov?
02:57:25Leif[Aru]: I'm going to guess that the bugs link on the rockbox page: is the best place to go.
02:57:29kugelno need for reporting those, they're known
02:57:55 Quit [Aru] (Client Quit)
02:58:07kugelleavittx: there's a malloc which plugins and codecs can use
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02:59:17leavittxkugel: are you talking about tlsf?
02:59:18kugelleavittx: I meant tlsf indeed. you need a custom Makefile to be able to use it
02:59:34leavittxI've just done it ;)
02:59:58kugelthough I've heard its free() doesn't work as it should though
03:00:27leavittxbut I get some problems with mpegplayer...wait a sec
03:00:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:01:01 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Quit: Fwump)
03:02:11leavittxlike this
03:03:07kugelleavittx: it seems you #include a file (into a file containing PLUGIN_HEADER) which already has its own PLUGIN_HEADER
03:03:32kugeldo you #include "mplegplayer.c" by any chance?
03:05:10kugelbut you build/link mpegplayer.o into your plugin
03:05:46 Quit GeekShadow (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:05:51leavittxI think, no
03:06:04leavittxbeginning of my plugin
03:06:41kugelcan you paste your c-ray.make file?
03:06:48kugelnvm :)
03:07:14kugel $(MPEG_OBJ) is the culprit
03:08:03kugelI'm not sure what your plugin is going to do, but if you want to use mpegplayer code you should build it as a lib or at the very least exclude mpegplayer.o
03:09:19leavittxkugel: i just copy-pasted make-file from pdbox, thanks ;)
03:13:15leavittxkugel: now another question. my code: if ((infile = rb->open("scene.txt", O_RDONLY)) == -1) { return PLUGIN_ERROR; } where must be scene.txt on disk to read it?
03:13:40leavittxor it's incorrect code?
03:14:10leavittxand I have to write if ((infile = rb->open(PLUGIN_DEMOS_DIR "/scene.txt", O_RDONLY)) == -1) { ... } instead
03:14:19kugelI think so yes
03:14:32kugelif you run it in the sim it should print a missing slash warning
03:15:31leavittxI run it on my player because I'm too stupid to get sim working =)
03:18:55 Quit tmzt (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
03:20:39leavittxIt says (for example): failed to load /.rockbox/rocks/demos/cube.rock, dlopen(simdisk/.rockbox/rocks/demos/cube.rock): simdisk/.rockbox/rocks/demos/cube.rock: invalid ELF header
03:21:17kugelon windows?
03:21:50leavittxi.e. it works
03:22:01leavittxbut plugins
03:22:07kugelhrm, no idea, all my attempts to build a sim on linux worked out of the bod
03:22:36leavittxplugins says that strange thing
03:22:46leavittxeverything else is ok
03:24:34 Quit dfkt (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:25:55leavittxinvalid ELF header, invalid ELF header, damn it
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03:32:04pixelmadid you run "make install"?
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03:59:57leavittxpixelma: no))
04:01:14leavittxworks now, huge thanks!
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04:03:02leavittxsimulator is so cuuuuuuuuuute
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04:25:37 Join taksato [0] (
04:25:54taksatooops! May I talk to someone about adding to suggested project in google summer of code?
04:26:16taksatoI can mentor the suggested project
04:26:53taksatoIve already begun the investigation based on soem forum feedback from saratoga
04:32:24kugeltaksato: it's usually quite at this time of day
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05:00:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:24:31 Quit karashata (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:41:20S_a_i_n_tWho's willing (and patient enough :P) to explain negative values in viewport x/y's to me?
05:44:48teruIIRC, if they are negative, position is LCD_WIDTH-x/LCD_HEIGHT-y.
05:45:34S_a_i_n_tThanyou kindly teru
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06:03:22 Join JDMFTW [0] (
06:06:22JDMFTWSo im having a problem with my Gigabeat S not holding the firmware
06:11:46JDMFTWYea after doing the install and turning off the player it reverts to the old firmware and asking to be plugged into the computer to be reflashed with the toshiba firmware
06:14:13S_a_i_n_tdoes it run fine with the original firmware?
06:15:03JDMFTWYes runs fine with the original
06:18:46S_a_i_n_tWell, that would seem to suggest you're doing something wrong during the install...are you using rbutil or doing a manual install?
06:19:11JDMFTWManual becuase there isnt a auto avialible for the S series.
06:19:31S_a_i_n_tis it a current/daily build or the 3.5 release?
06:20:05JDMFTWI think its the current.
06:20:12S_a_i_n_t*not that that changes the install procedure...
06:21:51JDMFTWI followed the guide unless I skipped a section, It works fine listen to music but the second I turn it off and turn it back on it reverts to the plug in to update firmware screen.
06:23:43UnhelpfulJDMFTW: single- or dual-boot bootloader?
06:25:46UnhelpfulJDMFTW: try dual. the newest toshiba bootrom for S does what you're seeing unless you use dual-boot.
06:26:12JDMFTWokay try that then and report back
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06:38:54taksatoHi, may I update the summer of code wiki with a project that I can mentor?
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06:41:04JDMFTWThank you Unhelpfull, that fixed the problem possibly giud change for S owners?
06:42:35JDMFTWMeant to say "Guide"
06:43:05UnhelpfulJDMFTW: probably a good idea, though i'm not certain we can tell users how to ID the problem devices.
06:43:36JDMFTWTrue I guess thats what IRC is for.
06:45:50S_a_i_n_tthe section regarding rbutil should probably be taken out (for now at least) of the manual for the gigabeat S also...Or it should say the target is unsupported at the very beginning of "automatic install" instead of the very end.
06:50:29JDMFTWThanks for the help
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08:58:51CIA-5New commit by tomers (r24932): Brickmania: Fix inner loop used the same variable as outer loop, which trashed ...
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09:24:49CIA-5New commit by tomers (r24934): Brickmania: Revert to using intersection checks for testing if powerup hit ...
09:32:36linuxstbtomers: Did you see kugel's comment in IRC yesterday about NUMBER_OF_POWERUPS and POWER_TYPE_COUNT ? He asked why you didn't just keep the value in the enum.
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09:40:37linuxstbtaksato: What is your project?
09:43:55taksatosansa accessories with remote
09:44:05taksatoi started with porting the IAP code
09:44:20taksatoi will soon buy the sansa breakout board and bring it into lab
09:45:14linuxstbSure, go ahead and add it.
09:46:05linuxstbIn the past, all our mentors have been established Rockbox committers, but we also normally struggle to find volunteers to mentor...
09:47:11taksatothank you, much appreciate it!
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10:07:18tomerslinuxstb: ping
10:08:54linuxstbtomers: ?
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10:28:46tomerslinuxstb: I saw that remark, and I was aware of this issue when I wrote the code
10:29:31tomersThing is that I didn't want to break the sections I created in that commit, and I preferred it over having this define in the struct.
10:29:43tomersI'm not sure it's the best choice, though...
10:33:13linuxstbtomers: Why would putting POWER_TYPE_COUNT in the enum break things?
10:33:44linuxstbI would also prefer the name NUMBER_OF_POWERUPS - so it looks different to the real values (POWER_TYPE_EXTRA_BALL etc)
10:34:14tomerslinuxstb: it doesn't break anything, I just didn't want to put POWERUP_HEIGHT which depends on it to be beneath it... That's doesn't sound important to me now, so I'll fix it
10:35:50CIA-5New commit by tomers (r24935): Brickmania: Use NUMBER_OF_POWERUPS in enum ...
10:36:08tomerslinuxstb: ok, I fixed it. thanks
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10:36:50linuxstbtomers: OK, thanks.
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10:38:22tomersCan somebody volunteer to commit mpegplayer_wvs_hide.patch in FS #10648 ? It looks ok to me, but I never used mpegplayer, so I don't want to commit it myself
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10:48:13tomersdoes ipod nano has working hid now?
10:48:45pixelmado you mean the 1st or 2nd gen Nano?
10:49:21tomersI guess it's 1st gen Nano. I'm considering closing FS #10242 - HID input not working for me on ipod nano
10:50:17S_a_i_n_ttomers: It probably means 2nd gen HID is known broken on I'd leave it.
10:51:02pixelmathe bug report is from someone with a 1st gen Nano - but already quite old
10:51:33S_a_i_n_tIn fact...I'm *STILL* trying to get HID disabled by default for turning HID off seems to solve a HUGE ammount of issues on the RB Forums with Nano2g users
10:52:01S_a_i_n_tsuch as not being able to transfer files, the drive not mounting properly etc.
10:52:09tomersi have no objections for that
10:52:48tomersalthough i would like to see it fixed rather than disable the feature and risking it being 'forgotten'
10:53:49pixelmaI still wonder if the default should be HID turned off, considering reports of broken USB connection with it enabled (depending on OS and target maybe but you don't know the setup of a user beforehand). As stated last weekend already, I thiink data connection is much more important than HID, everyone expects the former to be working - the latter is something additional
10:54:48S_a_i_n_tI'm not sure who's department it is...but I'd say for now its safer to disable it...I'm almost positive a number of people will of mistakenly thought rockbox is a bag of shit because they can't use their player with HID on and its on by default.
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10:55:08stripwaxOk, I'm definitely not imagining it. My ipod video *is* turning itself on at some arbitrary times. Since I leave the hold switch on, it means it turns on into the OF. I'm going to open an issue.
10:55:31S_a_i_n_tI've rescued countless 2g users by simply saying "turn HID off" in the forums...and I know plently of other people have given the same advice also.
10:56:24tomersS_a_i_n_t: Stability of data transfer is above all, TMHO. You should ask gevaerts to disable HID. I personally, with great sorrow, second your suggestion to disable it
10:56:50tomersdoes it cause so many issues on players other than nano-2g ?
10:57:17S_a_i_n_twell, that's you, pixelma and ,yself that all think HIS should be off by default...
10:57:38S_a_i_n_tthat's a step closer :D
10:58:03S_a_i_n_twell, my 1g Nano is fine..but the 2g Nanos I have, none of them work with HID on.
10:58:24S_a_i_n_t(I only have 1/2g Nanos) so I can't say if it breaks any other targets.
10:58:49pixelmawhat does gevaerts have to do with it? Changing the defaults is probably quite simple. There is still MacOS 10.4 (and I saw a report in the forums about problems with it and an e200)
11:00:03S_a_i_n_tThe main bulk of HID issues I've seen have been from Nano2g users...but I have seen reports from other targets yes...can't remember which though.
11:00:03linuxstbDoes HID have any other use, apart from the obvious? Is it related to charging?
11:00:06tomersThere's also FS #10809 - Sansa E200 won't correctly connect mass storage with HID enabled
11:00:25tomersgevaerts is the USB focal person here :-)
11:00:52*S_a_i_n_t wonders WTF it *is* enabled by default then...semms kinda silly to have it enabled if it knowingly breaks targets.
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11:01:44tomersS_a_i_n_t: if it breaks 2g, then I guess it definitely should be disabled for that target. question is should it be disabled on other targets as well?
11:02:04S_a_i_n_tNo...well I don;t think so.
11:02:12S_a_i_n_tbut DEFINITELY for the Nano2g.
11:03:07tomersi can do it, but i'm not sure it this should be discussed further with other developers first. i prefer you ask gevaerts later today to disable it
11:03:42S_a_i_n_tI think the reason why nooone's paid any attention to the HID iddue with the Nano2g is that it is still "unstable"...which in some cases seems like a bit of an excuse.
11:04:36S_a_i_n_tI'll probably still be awake when gevaerts comes on...and yes, it should be discussed some more, but I doubt anyone will have any problems with it.
11:05:01S_a_i_n_tbah, s/iddue/issue/
11:06:42*tomers agrees
11:07:02linuxstbtomers: Does HID have any other use, apart from the obvious? Is it related to charging?
11:07:19tmztthis a Windows host?
11:07:37tmztand shouldn't it be enabled somewhere in configuration?
11:07:43tomerslinuxstb: It replaces charging only mode
11:08:09linuxstbSo if HID is disabled, does it still charge at full power?
11:08:23tomersi.e. when you press the appropriate button while connecting the DAP to USB, it enumerates as an HID device, and does not enumerate mass storage device
11:08:53tomersformerly (I hope i remember well) it was some sort of empty enumeration (bah, i forgot how it used to be)
11:09:43tomerslinuxstb: the old charging only mode is still there, because not all targets have support for USB interrupt transfers, therefore they don't support HID
11:09:48S_a_i_n_tthe only target that 9I know for a fact) its a BIG issue for is the Nano2g...and for now, I think it should only be disabled on that target. Unless anyone has good reason why it should be disabled on the other targets also?
11:10:05*moos would like to see usb HID disabled by default too
11:10:45S_a_i_n_tmoos: which target do you have?
11:10:46S_a_i_n_tand what problems does HID cause you?
11:10:49tomersso removing HID from nano2g is just playing a bit with the #ifdefs. That's a rather ugly task, and I think gevaerts can do it better than me, not just because i'm lazy :-) but because he knows it better
11:11:39linuxstbtomers: Ah, you're talking about disabling it at compile-time, not disabling it in the settings?
11:11:52moosS_a_i_n_t: I have plenty, but I was speaking default rockbox configuration... Then the user can still use this option by himself
11:12:27S_a_i_n_tlinuxstb: we're taling about defaulting it to "off", but not necessarily for all targets.
11:12:33S_a_i_n_tI don;'t think that is needed.
11:12:45pixelmaI think even a rare case of USB data connection not working (e.g. on some still used even though old OSs) is worth disabling it by default. If people know it's working thex can turn it on again
11:13:09linuxstbS_a_i_n_t: You are... I was asking tomers if he was...
11:13:12pixelmaerr... *they
11:13:16S_a_i_n_tpixelma: that's a good point.
11:13:27moospixelma: amen, I all with you
11:13:44tomerslinuxstb: mmm.. i guess you're right, but i don't know if charging only more enumerates according to the settings, i.e. you disable HID but in charging only mode it enumerates as hid. I don't know
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11:18:29tomersThere are issues with Sansa e200R links in the website. See
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11:30:43moospixelma: you can add the point that surely some users don't need HID. Then if he is informed enough he could disable it, but thinks to the newbee that don't even know HID... a very liitle chance to break usb, but there is for nothing (at his side)
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12:24:36*S_a_i_n_t finally discovers the Pong AI is good :D
12:27:16CIA-5New commit by bluebrother (r24936): Use the data partition device node when trying to resolve the mountpoint. ...
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12:32:47CIA-5New commit by moos (r24937): Update the french translation.
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12:41:38gevaertsre. today's discussion, I agree that HID+MSC should probably be disabled by default on nano2g, and I think it should in also be disabled by default on portalplayer for releases. I'm not entirely sure what to do for non-releases
12:41:57gevaertsfor the record, I don't think I'm automatically the one to decide this :)
12:42:34gevaertsoh, and we definitely don't want to disable HID totally, i.e. we don't want to go back to CHARGING_MODE
12:42:42S_a_i_n_thehe..for the record, I don;t think you are either :D but Tomers seems to think so :P
12:43:04*pixelma calls the RSB ;)
12:43:20S_a_i_n_tNo, we don;t want it disabled totally...just defaulted to off I believe would be the best/better solution.
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12:43:45gevaertsThe only thing that needs to change is the default value of the setting
12:43:48S_a_i_n_tESP for the Nano2g, if for no other target.
12:44:16*gevaerts has to go now
12:45:23amiconnI think that the problem isn't hid itself, but rather enumerating as a multi-function device with both hid+msc
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12:45:58amiconnSo if hid is disabled, it should enumerate as msc by default, and as hid only, without actually sending events, for charging only
12:47:43amiconnThe nano2g is listed as unstable, so I wouldn't change defaults just because of that
12:47:49S_a_i_n_tI'm not sure *what* the problem is...but with Nano2g with HID off it actually shows up as "RockPod 2g" (My volume lable for it), and I can access/transfer fine. With HID on however it shows up as "removable device" and I can't access/read/write to the device at all :(
12:48:42amiconnYes - so disable hid...
12:48:54S_a_i_n_tI *personally* would just like to see the default changed for the would save a lot of hassle in the long run. If/when it gets sorted out it can always be changed beck.
12:49:02amiconnImo the question is whether hid should be enabled or disabled by default for *all* swusb targets
12:49:38S_a_i_n_tMy point is, new users don't know that HID is the problem...and we don;t know how many just give up because they can;t get their device to work.
12:49:44amiconnHid enabled causes problems on some older versions of MacOS - that's about the only reason to change the default for me
12:49:51S_a_i_n_tplenty enough come to the forums to seek help about it.
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12:54:30stripwaxI would personally disable HID by default on all devices. It's not, in my opinion, a relevant default feature for a portable media player.
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12:57:34stooowhat does HID do ?
12:58:32S_a_i_n_tstooo: messes up Nano2g's? :P
12:58:43stripwaxstooo - lets you control media functions *on your computer* from your portable device - e.g. your windows volume control
12:59:28stoooS_a_i_n_t: yes, and soon also mess up 4G, and classics ;))
12:59:54S_a_i_n_tsoon? are you porting them yourself? :P
13:00:09stoooso basically you can do play/pause, FF, volume ... from the ipod
13:00:20stripwaxby default
13:00:43S_a_i_n_tyes, there is also a "Mouse Mode" feature...which is *kinda* cool :D
13:00:47stooono, i don't enjoy so much writing SW
13:01:00stoooi'm working to break the nano 5G now ;)
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13:01:12stripwaxall in favour of *keeping HID enabled by default on swusb targets* say aye..
13:01:15*stripwax says nothing
13:01:44stooowhy not
13:01:45S_a_i_n_tUsing an iPod clickwheel as a mouse is a little awkward..but the effect is cool.
13:02:01stoooit can't break anything
13:02:05stripwaxit can and does
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13:02:55stoooone question : does rockbox support the apple accessory protocol on the uart ?
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13:03:30stripwaxnot all features are implemented, but I think enough to enable control functions of most docks, etc
13:03:35stooobut still not on 2G
13:03:46stripwaxnot sure about the 2g
13:04:30stooothere is no uart driver now ;)
13:04:31*S_a_i_n_t has no problems with it being on by default for the targets that have no problems with the HID features...but for Nano2g, Sansa e200(?) and other "problematic devices" should default to off IMO
13:04:56stooowhat's the problem ?
13:04:58stripwaxwould it not be better for consistency to disable by default everywhere then.
13:05:13stripwaxfor simplicity of documentation at least
13:05:50stripwaxit would only be for new fresh installs, right? (if someone has existing settings that have enabled HID, hid will still be enabled). And if someone wants to use it they can just turn it on from the menu.
13:05:52S_a_i_n_tdocumentation (or updating it) seems a silly reason to deprive users of a feature that works for them
13:06:04S_a_i_n_twe just need to find out for sure where HID is failing.
13:06:05stoooremoving features because of documentation is rather strange ;)
13:06:23S_a_i_n_ttouche :D
13:06:39stripwaxremoving features for consistency of supporting them.
13:06:45stripwaxwait, not removing
13:06:51stripwaxjust not having enabled by default
13:07:03moosstripax: indeed for simplicity disable for all targets by default
13:07:12moosstripwax even
13:07:22S_a_i_n_t...but if it works..why disable it?
13:07:31S_a_i_n_tit it *doesn't* work however...
13:07:36moosby default !
13:07:47S_a_i_n_tyes, even by default.
13:07:54moosthe feature would still be there
13:08:01S_a_i_n_tI realise that. scrobble support works, but that's disabled by default. I'm not sure I understand why 'feature X works' implies 'feature X must be enabled by default' ?
13:08:35stripwaxand (again personally) I don't think this is an important feature to enable by default
13:08:40S_a_i_n_twell, it's *assumed* that HID features are desired I suppose.
13:08:43stooowow, the 5G is incredibly compact ...
13:08:48S_a_i_n_tand if they work, I'm all for it.
13:09:09S_a_i_n_tbut if they don't work...turn 'em off :D
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13:09:42stripwaxif they work and are desired and expected by the majority of users, sure. But (personally) I suspect they are not desired and expected by the majority of users.
13:10:05S_a_i_n_tdesired, probably...but not expected.
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13:10:22S_a_i_n_ta lot of users don;t know what to expect when using RB for the first time :D
13:10:34S_a_i_n_tit all comes as a pleasant surprise.
13:10:54stripwaxmm, true. but not when using an old mac os or a 2g or .. etc.
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13:11:16stripwaxby default, rockbox should 'just work'. without having to turn off default features
13:11:21mooshence if we could prevent them from occasinnal hangs on usb... ;)
13:11:40moos@ S_a_i_n_t
13:11:46pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: we know where HID is failing on MacOS 10.4 and can't do anything about it because it's a OS fault
13:12:06S_a_i_n_tmoos: with Nano2g for instance, it's more than an "occasional hang" just flatly won't let you access the device.
13:12:33moosdon't count nano 2g on this discussion for yet
13:12:55stripwaxWhat's better: "install rockbox, and then if you have an old OS or a nano2g or a sansa exyz, turn off HID for your device to work properly" or "install rockbox. if you want to try out HID features, turn on the HID setting in the menu"
13:12:58S_a_i_n_ton my system anyway, (Win XP sp3)..and 2 others like it that I've tried it on.
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13:13:47S_a_i_n_tstripwax: well..when its put that way...the answer is obvious.
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13:13:56stripwaxS_a_i_n_t - I know .. :)
13:14:40stripwaxIf we don't document it, and then spend time on forums describing to new users how to fix, then it should be clear we're doing something wrong.
13:15:20robin0800is the usb startup bug still present?
13:15:51stripwaxIf we do document it, it should be simple. If I was a new user, I would despair reading the first version of the wording. The second version would make me think 'oh hey, rockbox just works. I don't know what HID is, maybe I'll google for that later to see if it sounds important or useful'
13:16:12S_a_i_n_tI *personally* wouldn't miss HID on my Nano1g's (where it actually works)...but some might, I wonder how many people are actually aware that its enabled by default, and as a result, how many people would actually notice if it wasn't?
13:16:29stripwaxBy the way, I had no idea before this conversation that HID was a problem :) But I don't use it either,.
13:16:50moosS_a_i_n_t: how many read the manual you mean? ;)
13:16:58stripwaxS_a_i_n_t - the people that 'might' miss it, already have it enabled though, right?
13:17:00S_a_i_n_twell, that goes towards my last statement I guess :D
13:17:16pixelmastripwax: it's not only e200s (I experienced it with my c200 and expect other Rockbox USB devices will fail as well) because the OS doesn't cope with USB composite devices (that's how it was explained to me). There was someone around here who left his device connected all the time and his computer hang during boot (my guess is the BIOS couldn't cope with composite devices)
13:17:37pixelmauntil he turned off HID it was
13:17:38stripwaxpixelma - right, I said 'or' not 'and' :)
13:18:20stripwaxS_a_i_n_t - unless you reset your settings, if we disable by default, those users would still have it enabled
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13:18:39pixelmaI'd still prefer the second statement of yours - because a working USB is a must have
13:18:42S_a_i_n_tpixelma: I have that boot problem also if the device is left plugged in, and for some reason I haven't turned HID off yet (ie. a clean install)
13:18:48pixelmadata connection
13:18:59stripwaxpixelma - yep, that was basically the response I was looking for :)
13:19:59S_a_i_n_tWell, I think *we* seem to have come to a step: convincing everyone else :P
13:20:49stripwaxMailing list? give it a day and if nobody complains? :-p
13:20:53gevaerts-phonejust to make things clear, HID+MSC also does not work without issues on Portalplayer
13:21:33robin0800FS #9957 is what I was asking about above but the bug says its been reopened so I guess the answer is yes
13:22:44gevaerts-phoneif you try to use HID heavily (like turning the wheel a lot) while copying data, chances are that you'll get a bus reset
13:24:09gevaerts-phoneso my vote is to disable by default everywhere
13:24:29stripwaxso four votes for and none against so far...
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13:26:37pixelmastripwax: about your earlier question - people would have to set HID enabled again because config.cfg which is used to load settings at boot only stores differences to the defaults, so now that enabled is default the setting won't be stored if you change the default to off it'll be disabled
13:26:53pixelmabut people could set this once and forget
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13:29:36stripwaxpixelma - oh! ah, very good point.
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13:30:56*S_a_i_n_t has a "My Preferred Settings" config, I assumed most people did this....but I guess not?
13:30:57stripwaxhrm, so as long as we announce it clearly I think we should be good
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13:33:57stripwaxS_a_i_n_t - I don't save my settings as a separate config (since I rarely ever reset my settings).
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13:35:31S_a_i_n_tstripwax: I do it that way so its easy to reset things to *exactly* the way I like things...I find it a lot easier to just exec a .cfg after a clean install, rather than mess around with 100+ settings :D
13:35:44pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: you still have to load that once if defaults changes, the advantage you have is "only" that you'll have your settings independent of defaults
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13:36:48S_a_i_n_tyep, but tis still an advantage I like to have...if the GF borrows my DAP for instance (if heres is discharged) I don;t mind is she changes anything :D
13:37:10S_a_i_n_t* s/heres/hers/
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13:42:50stripwaxpixelma - so saved config files have all settings saved; it's just config.cfg for boot settings that records the diffs from defaults?
13:42:58stripwaxThat's really good to know (had no idea)
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13:44:34pixelmayou could compare your config.cfg and a manually saved .cfg
13:46:35S_a_i_n_ta manually saved .cfg contains the setting for all possible settings the config can define, regardless as to whether or not they have been set by the user or are a default.
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14:15:06Buschelcan a playback expert please check fs#10930? I found a small patch that fixes the problem. But I am not sure whether this is will have any side effects.
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14:34:54taurolyonHi all! I was wondering if anyone could help me with my Sansa e200R and getting rockbox working on it?
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15:01:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:01:31CIA-5New commit by teru (r24938): clix: make code to check whether game is end or not to a separate function to reduce indents. make holding key keep moving cursor.
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15:04:50leavittxWill this code work all right? Because I get some compile warnings... rb->write(outfile, (pixels[i] >> RSHIFT) & 0xff, 1);
15:05:01leavittxI need to write one byte to file
15:05:15leavittxI used fputc() before...
15:05:22gevaertsuhm, no, that won't work
15:05:28gevaertswrite needs a pointer
15:05:51leavittxCan you help me with that?
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15:06:22leavittxWhat will be the best solution?
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15:12:07gevaertsleavittx: you use it just like the standard POSIX write() call
15:14:08leavittxgevaerts: yep. but how to write a single known byte in this case? Place it in some buffer (now pixels)?
15:15:22domonokyleavittx: char temp = pixels[i]>>RSHIFT) & 0xff; rb->write(outfile,&temp,1);
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15:17:39bertrikThe backlight brightness on the c200 goes only up to 12 now and is linear (so very little perceptual change between high brightness levels). We could make use of the entire brightness range and make it logarithmic (so each step is about the same difference perceptually)
15:17:49leavittxdomonoky: I just knew. Thanks a lot!
15:20:15leavittxAnother stupid question: will this function work as millisecond-resolution timer? unsigned long get_msec(void) {
15:20:15leavittxreturn *rb->current_tick * 1000 / HZ;
15:20:31leavittxsorry for copypaste :-\
15:22:47ranmachanbertrik: Speaking of backlight, on the c240v2 OF brightness goes to full or off when I stop the CPU. Apparently it's really a software timer switching it on and off instead of hw pwm for brightness control...
15:23:33CIA-5New commit by moos (r24939): Stats Plugin: Update the list of suported/counted music file extensions. ...
15:24:03bertrikranmachan, yeah I think the c240 backlight can only go on or off in rockbox, is it the same in the original firmware?
15:24:16bertrikBTW I thought you bricked your c240v2?
15:24:24ranmachanbertrik: Unbricked it
15:24:35ranmachanNo, the OF has IIRC 8 brightness levels
15:25:06ranmachanJTAG FTW :)
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15:28:03kugelbertrik: the entire brightness range?
15:28:35kugelwhat's the "entire range"?
15:28:45bertrikkugel, yes we have 31 current steps for the backlight on c200/e200 of which only 12 are used AFAIU
15:29:07*kugel didnt know that
15:31:01kugelyou mean there's something after 12?
15:31:13kugelor are more steps between 1 and 12?
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15:33:00bertrikThere are more current steps beyond 12, from 15 mA to 38.5 mA. The current maximum is 12 with mA LED current, but we could go higher. Not sure if it's safe, but I'll try anyway
15:33:04CIA-5New commit by moos (r24940): Silly editor, missing a ,.
15:33:26kugelbertrik: 12 is very bright already I don't think we need more
15:38:19bertrikThe OF of the c200 allows me 16 steps (with the last few steps hardly making any difference)
15:42:56ranmachanbertrik: Depends on the LED, normally up to 20mA should be safe, above that lifetime may suffer :)
15:45:28ranmachanOf course high power LEDs can be rated for much more current (like 350mA) but those then need heatsinks
15:45:34bertrikWell, there are a lot of different LEDs with very different specifications, so you can't say 20 mA is the maximum
15:45:39CIA-5New commit by teru (r24941): use same variable/macro name for highscore among plugins.
15:45:50ranmachanSure, you'd need the datasheet to be sure
15:46:40ranmachanAnd I said 'may suffer' not 'will suffer' ;)
15:46:58bertrikthe maximum setting that we have now (12) is equivalent to 15 mA
15:48:02ranmachanExcept for low-current LEDs (2mA) I've never seen LEDs that are rated for less than 20mA
15:48:39bertrikWe could do 8 approximately logarithmic steps between 1.25 mA and 20 mA
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15:54:03kugelmultifont on remotes doesn't work, does it?
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16:00:11pixelmait's supposed to (haven't tried myself though, AlexP experimented with it a bit)
16:03:08pixelmakugel: what makes you think it doesn't?
16:04:26kugelpixelma: I'm running the mr500 sim with a %Fl/%V combo in the rwps. it doesn't use the font
16:06:49pixelmaok, maybe there are still issues left. JdGordon even said you can have a different user font for remotes now. As I said though - I haven't tried myself yet
16:07:15pixelmaand introduced a setting for it on remote targets
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16:11:00kugelalright, seems to work now
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16:14:26bertrikI'll post a patch on FS regarding the logarithmic backlight brightness for sansa c200, c200v2 and e200
16:16:10CIA-5New commit by kugel (r24942): Properly handle empty and '-' font settings.
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17:51:54CIA-5New commit by kugel (r24943): Store the list of fonts in a linked list instead of in a static array (together with the base filename) and load all fonts in a second step. This aids ...
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18:07:56CIA-5New commit by FlynDice (r24944): sd-as3525v2: Load CID info to cardinfo.cid[] correctly. ...
18:09:25Strife89amiconn: Ping.
18:10:37bertrikFlynDice, do we still store the CID and CSD as a set of 32-bit words?
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18:18:11tomersDoes rbutilqt is statically linked to libpng-1.4?
18:20:42tomersA user reported that used rbutilqt on Arch-Linux said the distribution switched to libpng-1.4, so rbutilqt did not work for him and he had to install libpng 1.2 using AUR. That sound weird, as I though rbutilqt is statically compiled to all needed libraries.
18:24:03CIA-5New commit by Buschel (r24945): Add information about supported musepack streamversion to manual.
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18:35:48AlexPtomers: It is intended to be static, it might not be I suppose :)
18:36:29AlexPldd should tell you, no?
18:39:46FlynDicebertrik: re CSD CID: Yes, we have csd[4] and cid[4] in struct tCardInfo in hotswap.h
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18:46:53CIA-5New commit by nls (r24946): mark array as const and use ARRAYLEN macro for calculating length of the array
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18:52:17mitkpixelma: ping
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19:00:41montanawhat about the samsung p3, do you think their will be a rockbox project for it in the future?
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19:06:09kugeltomers: I think rbutil uses the system libraries if they're newer even if it has the stuff built-in
19:06:31kugelnot sure though
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19:07:20gevaertsmontana: that's really hard to say. If interested owners work in it, it happens...
19:07:40CIA-5New commit by nls (r24947): Set missing svn properties
19:08:26mitkHi. Can an dev consider commiting FS #11055 which is polish character set for 12-Nimbus font?
19:10:20montanagevaerts: is it super hard to port rockbox, for example to the p3
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19:13:40gevaertsIt depends. Some players are very similar to other players that already have a port, in which case it can be pretty easy. Other players have very little in common with existing ports, or have encrypted firmware, or other hard things
19:14:09gevaertsHave a look at if you didn't already
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19:15:17iqIf it possible to increase size of Simulator for easy viewing?
19:15:51montanaye, I just read it, interesting but I don't think I have the skills
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19:16:15gevaertsiq: ruin "rockboxui −−help"
19:17:01iqgevaerts, thanks, I didn't think it would be that easy :)
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19:23:49CIA-5New commit by tomers (r24948): Brickmania: Use helper function check_rect to test whether ball hits brick
19:32:40bertrikmitk, looks simple enough to commit, is there anything special/controversial about this patch?
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19:34:11mitkbertrik: Nothing at all.
19:35:01bertrikOk, in that case, I'll commit it in the next 10 minutes or so
19:35:08kugelbertrik: pixelma wanted those glyphs for the other nimbus fonts too before committing IIRC
19:35:25pixelmadoesn't need to be before committing
19:35:26moosmitk: IIRC pixelma asked you 'if you could) added those for other size too
19:36:04pixelmaand I only askede about 13 and 14 because those are based off the 12 one with just a bit more spacing
19:36:06mooshehe :) better to express yourself pixelma :)
19:36:31kugelI added FS #11064 if anyone is interested
19:36:35mitkmoos: And answer was yes, but in another FS.
19:36:44pixelmajust got back home :)
19:36:51moosmitk: no problems
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19:45:39CIA-5New commit by tomers (r24949): Brickmania: Test if power-up hit side of paddle
19:50:47CIA-5New commit by bertrik (r24950): Polish character set for 12-Nimbus font ...
19:51:28mitkbertrik: thanks
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21:21:25CIA-5New commit by Buschel (r24951): Correct iPod Video manual: -89..6 dB is allowed for volume.
21:25:17bluebroth3rdomonoky: any thoughts on renaming the rbutil output binary to RockboxUtility instead of rbutilqt?
21:25:36domonokysounds good.
21:26:35bluebroth3rthe CamelCase is a bit weird on linux, but that rbutilqt is weird on all platforms
21:29:15bluebroth3rshould we also rename the distribution archive? That would break checking for updated versions though.
21:35:26saratogai'd like to fix the rockbox runtime counter to actually show how long rockbox has been running since it was last charged
21:35:46saratogacurrently it just shows how long rockbox has been running since rockbox was last charged while the running time screen was up
21:36:14saratogacould someone suggest where to hook into the charging logic to reset the counter on USB insert?
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21:39:41bluebroth3rBagder: can the mirrors cope with mirroring symlinks on the download server?
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21:57:27saratogawhat exactly does the default_event_handler do?
21:57:38saratogacan I register callbacks with it?
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22:19:36CIA-5New commit by kugel (r24952): Fix dead parts of the wps when leaving it.
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22:24:52CIA-5New commit by kugel (r24953): Add playlist viewer screen to %cs.
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22:29:16saratogahuh it seems like default_event_handler doesn't have a USB disconnected event, although there is an event for connected
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22:30:42saratogaor maybe it does and it just doesn't get called on every usb disconnect ...
22:31:54gevaertssaratoga: IIRC the disconnected event is handled by the default connect handler
22:32:07saratogagevaerts: yeah i think it is
22:32:16saratogaits just that on some disconnects I don't seem to get an event
22:32:26saratogadoes the player have to be safely unmounted in Windows to get one?
22:32:47gevaertsI don't think so
22:33:14gevaertsThey make the USB screen go away
22:33:31gevaertsIs this for the runtime counter?
22:33:33kugelsaratoga: are you use it only updates when you are in the screen?
22:33:39kugelI wonder how I get several hours in that then
22:33:54saratogakugel: I get over 300 hours!
22:34:06saratogamy sansa definitely doesn't last that long off a charge
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22:34:27saratogagevaerts: yeah i'm throwing up a probably incorrect patch for it right now
22:34:37kugelI didn't understand your sentence then
22:34:53*kugel wonders why he keeps uploading themes for daps he doesn't use anymore
22:35:31gevaertssaratoga: the connect event is about MSC. It won't get sent for charge-only connections, and it doesn't mean that charging starts on all players
22:36:34saratogagevaerts: right now I just check for charge events or usb disconnect events
22:36:58saratogacharging seems to work fine, but occasionally I'll manage to mount in USB mode without the running time being reset with that patch, which seems odd to me
22:37:01gevaertssaratoga: well yes, but USB disconnect does not mean end of charging
22:37:32saratogaits throw on OS disconnect rather then physical disconnect?
22:37:48gevaertsnot all players charge on USB
22:38:30saratogaare there any that don't reboot into the OF or charge?
22:38:39saratogai suppose some ipod builds
22:38:59gevaertsH1x0 never charges from USB, and H3x0 only charges from USB if you tell it to
22:39:36saratogais there an ifdef i can use for that?
22:39:54saratogaNO_USB_CHARGING or similar
22:40:21gevaertsthere's HAVE_USB_CHARGING, but that won't catch the h300 where it's also a setting
22:41:06*gevaerts doesn't think that the USB disconnect event is the right place to handle this
22:41:09saratogaHAVE_USB_POWER right?
22:41:19saratogaalthough the ipod video defines that and I thought it didn't charge
22:41:34gevaertsusb video is *supposed* to charge, so that's not the issue
22:42:01 Join Adubb [0] (
22:42:04pixelmathe Ondio has USB power but doesn't charge
22:42:08iqI installed bootloader on Clip+ last week. I'm thinking of copying .rockbox (firmware) to the root now. Should I reload bootloader or just copying .rockbox would be good enough?
22:42:11gevaertsbut HAVE_USB_POWER is wrong for e.g. the ondio (or was it another archos?), which can run from USB but not charge
22:43:23pixelmacharging alkalines might be a bit dangerous... I think the same applies to the m200 (if the port advances some day)
22:43:36 Quit m3dlg (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:43:39gevaertsalso Logik DAX then :)
22:43:48gevaertssaratoga: does the charging indicator in the WPS work correctly? If so, have a look where that status comes from
22:44:03saratogai'm not sure, I don't have a Video
22:44:09 Join m3dlg [0] (
22:44:43gevaertsI mean for whichever player where you're unhappy about the runtime
22:44:49saratogaCONFIG_CHARGING might be the right one to check for
22:45:09saratogagevaerts: t he patch works fine for the sansas, I just wanted to fix it on as many players as possible
22:46:13gevaertsthe patch might work fine in some cases, but I think it's fundamentally broken
22:46:40saratogagevaerts: it actually does catch the charge without usb case
22:48:03gevaertsbecause of the SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED or because of the SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED?
22:48:19saratogathe former
22:48:33gevaertsSYS_USB_DISCONNECTED should not be there at all at least
22:48:48saratogai only added the second when I realized that MSC mode doesn't seem to generate a SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED event
22:49:02saratogawell is there a better place to do this?
22:49:29gevaertsthen we need to find out why SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED isn't always sent, not patch things up by also handling this in unrelated places
22:49:40saratogaits never sent in MSC mode
22:49:44saratogaat least as far as I can tell
22:49:47 Quit jae (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:50:10saratogai tried a couple times and only got it when I held down the button to go into charge only mode
22:50:36 Join jae [0] (
22:50:41saratogaotherwise disconnecting only generated a SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED, and even then only sometimes
22:51:10gevaertsit *always generates SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED. If not, the usb screen would stay there
22:51:13saratogawell i guess its also possible i never get SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED and occasionally do get a SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED from MSC mode, but the first seems more likely given how many tiems I tried it
22:52:16 Quit m3dlg (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
22:53:23saratogagevaerts: are you sure about usb_screen.c ? I don't see any calls to default_event_handler
22:55:18gevaertssaratoga: usb_screen.c doesn't call default_event_handler obviously. It's called *from* default_event_handler
22:56:39 Quit jae (Remote host closed the connection)
22:56:51saratogawhich call is that in default_event_handler_ex?
22:57:32pixelmaI'm quite sure charging indication works in the WPS/SBS on my c200 at least (if that info helps any)
22:58:10 Join m3dlg [0] (
22:58:27iqFYI - recompiled and loaded the current svn bootloader on Clip+. Error message after logo: *PANIC* wait for state failed (IDENT).
22:59:30 Quit m3dlg (Remote host closed the connection)
22:59:51 Quit kugel (Remote host closed the connection)
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23:00:02 Quit m3dlg (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:00:18gevaertssaratoga: I think I see what's going on
23:01:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:02:45gevaertspower_mgmt.c broadcasts the SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED event if it detects that there's no more power on the pins. usb.c broadcasts SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED when it sees that the USB cable is gone. This is from two independent threads, so it's a matter of luck which one gets sent first
23:02:51 Join jae [0] (
23:04:21gevaertsWhile the system is in MSC mode, handle_usb_events() in usb_screen.c handles the events for the GUI thread (it's called from gui_usb_screen_run(), which is called from default_event_handler_ex()). That one ignores all events except SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED
23:05:18FlynDiceiq: you still need to disable the caches to get the clip+ to boot
23:06:25 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
23:06:40saratogagevaerts: how do you think this should be handled then?
23:06:55gevaertsI don't really see a quick and nice fix immediately. I'm still thinking...
23:07:13 Quit jae (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:07:58 Join jae [0] (
23:08:00gevaertsThe quick and easy fix is of course to copy the SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED handling to handle_usb_events()
23:08:52gevaertswell, your new bit anyway. car_adapter_mode_processing() is useless there. If you're in MSC mode, car adapter mode doesn't really mean anything
23:09:48gevaertsThat's probably the best solution in the short term
23:10:02 Part froggyman
23:10:47*gevaerts doesn't really like the SYS_* handling in rockbox in general
23:11:01saratogagevaerts: will that handle charging from a non-USB port?
23:11:28iqFlynDice, any starting point? Not that I have done this before but I can try.
23:12:02gevaertssaratoga: non-USB charging while not USB-connected should work fine with your existing changes only (because SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED is received while handling events using default_event_handler_ex())
23:12:35saratogaah ok so leave that part in default_event_handler_ex
23:12:40saratogai'll update the patch
23:12:53FlynDiceiq: can you apply a patch?
23:12:54gevaertsAdding SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED handling to handle_usb_events() as well will make it also work if whatever charger is used is disconnected while a USB connection is active
23:13:27iqFlynDice, I am willing to :)
23:17:37FlynDiceiq: apply this to /firmware/target/arm/mmu-arm.S it will disable both instruction and data caches
23:19:10saratogaok the patch is updated
23:19:19saratogait probably still doesn't handle the ipods right though
23:19:46saratogamight be worth resetting the counter on USB insert as well so that it gets reset if the device boots into the OF for charging
23:20:12 Quit ender` (Quit: If God had intended us to go around naked, He would have made us that way. -- Olum's Observation)
23:21:47 Join leavittx [0] (~leavittx@
23:21:54dionoeahas anyone already started a rockbox as an app android port?
23:22:41saratogai don't think so
23:22:59gevaertssaratoga: the SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED bit shouldn't be needed anymore now
23:23:17 Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection)
23:24:02saratogait'll always generate the charger disconnected event?
23:25:17gevaertsrasher: unless something is seriously broken, yes
23:26:25rasherbuildsystem|recorder|24026|263628|515704|2010-02-21 16:09:28
23:26:25rasherbuildsystem|recorder8mb|24026|263628|515704|2010-02-21 16:40:21
23:26:29saratogait does seem to work
23:26:42rasherThere's a chance my import script broke somehow
23:27:23rasherIt did..
23:27:50saratogagevaerts: it seems to be working for me, your call if it should go into SVN or wait for a better way to do this
23:28:08 Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:29:45 Quit phanboy4 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:29:56gevaertssaratoga: I don't think there is a better way to do this without refactoring lots of code, which may or may not happen
23:30:13saratogaok then i'll commit
23:30:28 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow)
23:30:33saratogait'll still need ifdef's for the ipods though right?
23:30:50saratogaor is SYS_CHARGER_DISCONNECTED not generated if theres no charging
23:31:06gevaertsthe ipods are a bit of a special case
23:31:33gevaertsI;d do nothing special for them. The entire system assumes that they charge. The fact that they don't is a bug, but it's somewhere else
23:32:11gevaertsThe software believes that they charge, and they (sometimes) do, just very slowly
23:33:08gevaertsI don't think it's a good idea to go and add #ifdefs all over the code (not just here, there's more places that would need them to be consistent) that we then have to not forget to remove later on
23:33:37gevaertsespecially since Torne is going to fix this any day now :)
23:34:59saratogai guess the if (charger_inserted()) check in screens.c needs to go too
23:35:10saratogaunless the Archos somehow handle this differently?
23:35:31 Quit einhirn (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:36:30gevaertsI don't know. You're in a way changing what the number means I think
23:37:02gevaertsI only have an opinion on whether the patch is technically correct, not if it's the right thing to do :)
23:37:11saratogai don't think i'm changing what it means
23:37:16saratogaI think it just never worked correctly
23:37:45saratogaor maybe it once worked and a lot else changed
23:38:32gevaertsbluebroth3r: you changed this bit last. What do you think?
23:38:49 Quit Adubb ()
23:40:06gevaertsah, JdGordon is the one who moved it out of the debug menu
23:40:27iqFlynDice, Worked... No more PANIC. It stays on the RockBox logo, Displays time :)
23:40:41 Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes)
23:40:50saratogaZagor added the runtime item in r2897
23:44:01 Quit tchan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2-dev)
23:44:09saratogathe original version seems to have checked if power was inserted whenever the device saved its settings, not just when in the runtime menu
23:44:40gevaertsoh, right, I see what happened
23:44:43 Join tchan [0] (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan)
23:44:57gevaertsIn the *old* code, the number got reset to 0 in the statusbar code
23:45:19gevaertsThat was removed in r8004
23:46:11gevaertsso you're right, your patch does restore intended behaviour, withing five years of it getting broken :)
23:46:25 Quit anewuser (Quit: ϢINTER ϾHIP 5iVE is OOON!! <24 hours left zOMG =oo Teh voting times!)
23:46:47saratogathe only reason I even noticed it was broken is because I was doing runtime testing on the clip to see when playback would crash
23:46:56*gevaerts suspects that not many people actually care about this number
23:47:53CIA-5New commit by saratoga (r24954): Fix System/Running Time to reset the running time whenever a charger or USB cable is inserted, not just when the cable is inserted in the running time ...
23:48:04saratogaits useful for me at least
23:49:35 Quit linuxstb (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:49:37 Quit AndyI (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
23:51:24bertrikgevaerts, you actually understand what it was intended to do?
23:51:31BuschelCan someone with a coldfire target make a short test with test_codec and a mp3-file using this patch ->
23:52:01 Quit p3tur (Remote host closed the connection)
23:52:08gevaertsbertrik: I've read diffs back to r3974 for this, but I think I understand things, yes :)
23:52:26 Quit petur (Quit: Zzzzz)
23:54:13gevaertsin fact, I think Zagor started it all with r2925, which I think wasn't a good idea
23:55:51gevaertsBuschel: I'll test in a minute
23:56:10gevaertsDo you need with- and without tests?
23:56:39 Part flyback
23:56:59Buschelyes, please

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