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| 00:02:26 | eggbloke | The website says a 2nd gen nano will be buggy but it seems fine |
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| 01:07:56 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmmm...r25280 seems to bork a couple of splash screens, it either doesn't display the splash screen at all (Shutting Down... for instance), or displays nothing but the splash screen (Database Init for example). In the cases where the splash is shown in only draws the splash and the backdrop (the status bar disappears) and when it is shown its very quickly overwritten by a blank backdrop. |
| 01:08:52 | | Quit perfectdrug (Quit: perfectdrug) |
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| 01:09:36 | S_a_i_n_t | TheSeven saw similar things in 25279, if I had to put the blame on something I'd look at 25271 (but thats just a bit of a guess) |
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| 01:14:16 | akg518 | heelo? |
| 01:16:00 | S_a_i_n_t | there's plenty of people here...you have a question? |
| 01:16:10 | S_a_i_n_t | ^ akg518 |
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| 01:17:50 | akg518 | Nope just saying helo |
| 01:19:27 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: i very much doubt that revision did anything |
| 01:21:38 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmm, I can't bisect it right now as I'm not near my build environment, I know it was working at 25269 |
| 01:21:47 | S_a_i_n_t | so that at least narrows it to 10 |
| 01:22:03 | S_a_i_n_t | -ish |
| 01:27:26 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmm, questioning the revision number in my head made me have an idea. Would it be possible for System/Rockboxinfo to display (if it can pull it from the build environment somewhere/how) the *previous) revision before update? |
| 01:27:44 | S_a_i_n_t | This would be useful for 'last good/first bad's etc. |
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| 01:37:54 | JdGordon | no |
| 01:39:21 | JdGordon | there is only one change between them qhich could have broken anything |
| 01:40:04 | moos | S_a_i_n_t: there is indeed a bug but don't from which revision. The screen seems to blank fully until key press |
| 01:40:37 | JdGordon | blank how? where? |
| 01:40:51 | moos | I mean not just splashes |
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| 01:42:20 | moos | JdGordon: blank screen, just backdrop left, but I didn't check yet if that's setting related maybe... |
| 01:42:32 | JdGordon | which screen? |
| 01:42:35 | moos | when? I have it since boot |
| 01:42:49 | moos | every :) |
| 01:43:00 | JdGordon | do you have a .sbs? |
| 01:43:22 | moos | I use the default one |
| 01:44:05 | * | moos goes for searching his beast, if retails is needed |
| 01:44:21 | * | S_a_i_n_t is seeing the behaviour he described while using all setting at default. |
| 01:44:36 | * | JdGordon is installing the latest build on his mini |
| 01:46:17 | moos | rectification, bacdrop and sbs are left here |
| 01:46:56 | moos | and I have it just after boot. |
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| 01:49:36 | moos | it seems that the screen isn't upadted correctly somewhere |
| 01:50:25 | JdGordon | no issues with default settings on mini2g |
| 01:51:20 | moos | the keypress that wakes up the screen blank the screen it seems for a few ms, let's see with default setting |
| 01:52:06 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: try and see if you have the "shutting down..." splash |
| 01:52:51 | JdGordon | ok, that is curious |
| 01:53:01 | | Quit hebz0rl (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 01:53:09 | moos | S_a_i_n_t: that *just* splashes on your hand? |
| 01:53:36 | * | S_a_i_n_t resists... |
| 01:55:11 | moos | hehe, nice to see the sbs here after loading my saved confing. There must have a culprit setting here |
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| 01:55:58 | moos | wow crazy screen now? I'll look on my .cfg and paste it somwhere |
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| 02:00 |
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| 02:01:40 | moos | JdGordon: my congig if that helps http://pastie.org/880353 |
| 02:01:44 | moos | config |
| 02:03:05 | JdGordon | sbs: /.rockbox/wps/classic_statusbar.sbs might be problematic |
| 02:03:19 | JdGordon | all splashes work fine for me except the shutdown one! |
| 02:04:03 | moos | JdGordon: the system have changed since ".cfg file created by rockbox r24312-100121"? |
| 02:04:51 | moos | I must have missed the commit message that advise people |
| 02:05:51 | moos | with this config there is an update screen problem it seems, if that could help you to find the cause |
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| 02:07:22 | S_a_i_n_t | I get the statusbar disappearing when the database init stuff splashes |
| 02:07:35 | JdGordon | that is expected |
| 02:07:45 | JdGordon | the splashes disable the theme |
| 02:08:13 | moos | How the sbs line on the config have to look like? |
| 02:08:31 | JdGordon | no, the actual sbs might have issues |
| 02:08:35 | JdGordon | the line is correct |
| 02:08:40 | moos | ah sorry |
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| 02:48:31 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon I figure you're the one to ask about this...can I / how can I set the splashes to usewhite text on a black backgroung instead of black text on a grey background. |
| 02:48:38 | S_a_i_n_t | I find the latter hard to read. |
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| 03:29:42 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25281): sd-as3525v2.c Use SD_DESELECT_CARD instead of SD_SELECT_CARD to make the code easier to understand. There is no functional difference. ... |
| 03:29:47 | | Quit planetbeing_ (Quit: planetbeing_) |
| 03:29:55 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25282): sd-as3525v2 Remove post transfer wait for state call and move pre transfer wait for state call inside the transfer loop. ... |
| 03:30:01 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25283): sd-as3525v2.c Add macros to distinguish between a CMD error and a DATA error. |
| 03:31:10 | S_a_i_n_t | quick question FS6697 defines the place to look for the dictionary .desc files by using "#define #define DICTS_DIR "/dicts" " which places a 'dicts' folder in the players root. If I wanted it to be in the dir "/.rockbox/dicts" I'd change the define to "DICTS_DIR ROCKBOX_DIR "/dicts" " |
| 03:31:17 | S_a_i_n_t | ...Correct? |
| 03:31:21 | | Quit Strife89 (Quit: Bed.) |
| 03:32:19 | kugel | how about you simply try it? |
| 03:33:14 | S_a_i_n_t | Fuck, *so* sorry for wanting to clarifty something... |
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| 03:42:04 | xiainx | Hi, I saw Rockbox was accepted into GSoC, I looked at your proposals and some of them interest me |
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| 03:52:21 | saratoga | xiainx: i have a minute, which were you itnerested in |
| 03:55:31 | xiainx | saratoga: I'm interested in a few actually |
| 03:55:44 | | Quit robin0800 (Quit: No Ping reply in 600 seconds.) |
| 03:55:54 | xiainx | saratoga: The Filesystem storage engine, MySQL to Drizzle syntax translator, Unit testing framework, and the documentation projects are all ones im interested in |
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| 03:56:24 | xiainx | no, that's another project |
| 03:56:36 | saratoga | ha |
| 03:57:15 | xiainx | saratoga: the rockbox as an application, TTS, and online services are all ones i'm interested in |
| 03:59:36 | saratoga | xiainx: i worked on rockbox as an app during a previous summer of code |
| 04:00 |
| 04:00:01 | saratoga | it involves a lot of digging through our code and then understanding some embedded environment |
| 04:00:15 | saratoga | like android or whatever |
| 04:00:46 | xiainx | saratoga: Really, so like, what kind of things does one need to know/be capable of before starting on a project? |
| 04:01:44 | saratoga | that project would involve basically being really good at greping through code and hopefully have some experience with linux development (or i suppose winmobile or macos) |
| 04:01:54 | xiainx | Ok |
| 04:01:56 | saratoga | the first part is getting the sim building from our target tree |
| 04:02:12 | saratoga | basically right now we have a target tree for hardware devices |
| 04:02:21 | saratoga | so each CPU family has a folder, then devices go in there, etc |
| 04:02:37 | xiainx | right, that's pretty typical directory structure |
| 04:02:41 | saratoga | the idea would be to add the sim as a "target" and maybe have an "android" cpu type or something similar |
| 04:02:59 | saratoga | that way android devices could compile just like arm or coldfire devices |
| 04:03:16 | xiainx | Okay |
| 04:03:24 | saratoga | because currently the sim is compiled seperately from everything else, and about a million #ifdef commands handle it |
| 04:03:37 | saratoga | thats obviously unworkable for a device port since you can't really change things easily |
| 04:04:15 | saratoga | so first that would be fixed ( i have a rough patch for doing so on the tracker somewhere but it needs a lot of work) |
| 04:04:33 | saratoga | then there would be an actual port to some device as sort of an example of how compiling rockbox as an application would work |
| 04:04:40 | xiainx | Okay |
| 04:04:44 | xiainx | Like.... What kind of device? |
| 04:05:00 | saratoga | android phone, iphone, ipod touch, wince, etc |
| 04:05:03 | saratoga | doesn't really matter |
| 04:05:26 | saratoga | even just targeting the android emulator would be fine actually |
| 04:05:26 | xiainx | Ok |
| 04:06:53 | saratoga | the idea is to have a proof of concept port at very least so that other people can see how its done, then from there try and get a usable port if at all possible |
| 04:08:00 | xiainx | Right, makes sense |
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| 04:21:36 | tmzt_ | if there's an sdl port why is a specifc rockbox port needed? |
| 04:21:49 | saratoga | tmzt_: elaborate on that thought |
| 04:22:30 | tmzt_ | well, the process to port rockbox to android, probably using the ndk and opengl for graphics has already been done for libsdl |
| 04:22:46 | tmzt_ | the same for the exz phones (old port) and webos (working sdl) |
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| 04:25:19 | saratoga | tmzt_: yes using sdl is a very good option but its only a very small part of actually doing the project |
| 04:25:35 | tmzt_ | ah |
| 04:25:45 | saratoga | scroll up a couple lines and get an idea whats involved |
| 04:25:50 | tmzt_ | I wasn't getting the target/cpu stuff |
| 04:26:03 | tmzt_ | since it looks like a simulator build on linux abi |
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| 04:26:32 | tmzt_ | of course sim has internal codecs and pcm output |
| 04:26:38 | | Nick The_Seven is now known as TheSeven (~theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 04:27:04 | tmzt_ | and on something like android radio firmware does most of the audio decoding for things like mp3, aac, wma |
| 04:27:50 | | Quit Barahir_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 04:29:52 | saratoga | tmzt_: what? |
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| 04:30:26 | tmzt_ | on qualcomm msm chipset devices like g1, mytouch, hero, nexus |
| 04:30:55 | tmzt_ | the radio firmware provides many system functions including media through it's qdsp framework |
| 04:31:04 | tmzt_ | media decoding |
| 04:31:16 | saratoga | you're trying to say that theres a DSP for decoding? |
| 04:31:20 | tmzt_ | yes |
| 04:31:33 | saratoga | i doubt they use something like that for audio |
| 04:31:50 | saratoga | doesn't make much sense given how fast codecs are on arm |
| 04:32:08 | tmzt_ | well they do, whether hardware dsp is used or not all audio playback is through radio firmware |
| 04:33:21 | saratoga | i don't doubt that the device decodes audio |
| 04:33:35 | saratoga | i'm just saying its probably done on the CPU |
| 04:33:56 | tmzt_ | there's two cpu cores |
| 04:34:02 | tmzt_ | apps core and modem core |
| 04:34:18 | tmzt_ | most hardware registers are only accessible from modem core |
| 04:34:27 | tmzt_ | through a shared memory interface |
| 04:35:32 | tmzt_ | if you were running rockbox directly on the g1 you couldn't avoid this |
| 04:35:51 | tmzt_ | but there's enough abstraction, if you do decoding in userspace, to just output pcm |
| 04:35:57 | tmzt_ | so it could be a non-issue |
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| 04:44:03 | saratoga | hmm actually google says there is a QDSP5000 based WMA Pro decoder, so at least that much could be done on the dsp |
| 04:44:13 | saratoga | i wonder why they bother though, that codec is so fast to being with |
| 04:44:24 | saratoga | unless they have systems that are qdsp only with no arm core |
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| 04:47:39 | S_a_i_n_t | Suggestion for the manual: WPS Tags, Next Track Info - Display the tags as I'n', D'n', F'n' (instead of Ix,Dx, Fx) so as to be less misleading and also for greater consitency with the rest of the " 'n' value tags listed " |
| 04:49:03 | S_a_i_n_t | *edit: Also give clarification on 'n' value, currently x has no clarifiaction and may lead to new users believing the tags actually *are %Ix, %Dx, %Fx etc. |
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| 05:17:47 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: patches are always welcome :) |
| 05:18:14 | JdGordon | and im not sure how hard (probably not very) it would be to change the splash colours |
| 05:20:40 | S_a_i_n_t | Do you know where they are defined (the splash colours)? And, Would submitting the appropriate new wordinf for the manual suffice? I have no idea how to patch/build the manual. |
| 05:21:47 | S_a_i_n_t | s/wordinf/wording/ |
| 05:21:51 | JdGordon | I think for the manual they dont mind just getting a blurb with proper wording. and apps/gui/splash.c |
| 05:22:06 | | Quit rvvs89 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 05:22:16 | S_a_i_n_t | thanks. |
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| 05:41:45 | switchgirl | hi i gots a light blue ipod shuffle (the type with a clip and about the size of a stamp) wadda i need to do (i'm also running Linux Ubuntu) to get rockbox on there - or to get it to play ogg |
| 05:42:01 | | Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 05:42:23 | S_a_i_n_t | Well, first of all...you'd need to develop a port to that target ;) |
| 05:43:23 | * | switchgirl looks at S_a_i_n_t like they just cured cancer |
| 05:43:24 | S_a_i_n_t | www.rockbox.org lists supported targets, and unfortunately for yourself, the Shuffle isn;t one of them. |
| 05:43:42 | switchgirl | in otherwords what do you mean? |
| 05:43:47 | switchgirl | aww |
| 05:43:49 | switchgirl | ok |
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| 05:44:41 | S_a_i_n_t | Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...Your're actually the second person to ask about the Shuffle today. |
| 05:45:04 | S_a_i_n_t | First time I've ever seen anyone ask about it myself, well times(s) |
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| 05:46:52 | switchgirl | S_a_i_n_t: thanks |
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| 07:09:10 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25284): sd-as3525v2.c Use MCI_MASK instead of data_transfer flag to determine if data transfer is happening. |
| 07:09:17 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25285): sd-as3525v2.c Enable disk access icon. |
| 07:09:20 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25286): sd-as3525v2.c We don't need to disable/enable MCI_CLKENA in send_cmd(). |
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| 07:33:56 | * | pixelma doesn't understan S_a_i_n_t's next track info tags proposal, not even with the clarification |
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| 07:50:37 | pixelma | ah... in the manual, now I get it |
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| 08:18:37 | pixelma | I don't see why t that would be better - for a few reasons. Gotta run though, I'll explain later |
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| 08:34:34 | * | JdGordon pretty much gives up on fixing the draw order in the skins |
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| 08:39:59 | Llorean | GodEater: For the "play all albums with the tracks in album order" problem, wouldn't the best solution be to have the database always "insert" in the same order it presents things to the user? So if you "insert" all tracks, you get them in alphabetical, but if you insert "all albums" you get the albums in alphabetical order, but the tracks within each album in track order, etc? |
| 08:40:16 | Llorean | Basically, wouldn't the ideal be to walk the database, rather than always returning the "all tracks" sub-list? |
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| 08:40:20 | GodEater | that might be more intuitive yes |
| 08:40:31 | GodEater | but I've no idea how much work that would be |
| 08:40:43 | Llorean | I thought it used to do that already, at some point in the past, but I must be wrong. |
| 08:40:57 | Llorean | It seems like it would be the expected behaviour by the user, though, in general |
| 08:41:06 | GodEater | certainly trying to get the tagnavi syntax to get it to do that caused a data sbort |
| 08:41:07 | bluebroth3r | JdGordon: you have the cross compilers running on OS X? On 10.6? |
| 08:41:09 | GodEater | *abort |
| 08:41:13 | Llorean | If you insert what appears to be a folder, the playlist contains what you'd see if you view that folder |
| 08:41:41 | JdGordon | bluebroth3r: I thought i did, but not yet.. I cant get them going if needed |
| 08:41:45 | GodEater | but if you do view the folder you can see they're not in album order |
| 08:41:51 | JdGordon | I'm not sure why anyone would need to cross compile on that box though? |
| 08:42:12 | GodEater | I'm not sure if the problem is in the database code, or our shipping default tagnavi file |
| 08:42:31 | GodEater | I would have thought the latter, since that's what defines those folders |
| 08:42:50 | GodEater | but the "correct" syntax doesn't work at all |
| 08:42:56 | bluebroth3r | JdGordon: I wanted to set them up but building the compilers fail (in most cases binutils work, but gcc fails with a "trap abort" or similar). |
| 08:43:07 | bluebroth3r | wanted to set them up on my box that is |
| 08:43:25 | JdGordon | I'll start the script and see what happens |
| 08:43:34 | bluebroth3r | so if you had them running I'd been interested how you managed to build them :) |
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| 08:48:25 | Llorean | GodEater: If you view the "Albums" folder, you see a list of albums, which when viewed are then in track order |
| 08:48:35 | GodEater | ah right |
| 08:48:39 | GodEater | I see what you mean no |
| 08:48:40 | GodEater | *now |
| 08:48:41 | Llorean | So you'd expect that this hierarchy would pass on to the playlist if you inserted the level above |
| 08:49:02 | JdGordon | depends when that sort happens |
| 08:49:06 | Llorean | Instead what you get is whatever you'd see if you choose the "all tracks" entry (which I like being alphabetical) |
| 08:49:08 | GodEater | I didn't even try inserting from there |
| 08:49:28 | Llorean | I think inserting "All Tracks" should get you alphabetical, but going up one and inserting the parent should get you a walked-through order |
| 08:49:32 | GodEater | yeah, and trying to sort the all tracks entry is what causes the data abort |
| 08:49:53 | Llorean | To me at least, it makes the most sense / is the most expected result. |
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| 09:01:02 | pixelma | Llorean: if you insert from the level above (assumung the "album" entry in the database) wouldn't you get the content of <all tracks> and the individual albums? |
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| 09:02:44 | Llorean | I would expect it to currently either just give all tracks, or just walk folders, but not both. Even though explicitly it seems like it might, I think most people recognize "all tracks" as a more or less 'extra' or 'virtual' entry |
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| 09:32:06 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25287): mkamsboot: add Clipv2 OF v2.01.35 |
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| 09:46:25 | | Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 09:46:27 | pixelma | about the next track tag description in the manual suggestion - I don't think %I'n' is not better than %Ix because (a) I'm used to "n" standing for an unknown number, not a character (b) if someone wants, he could read 'n' literally too (c) "x" is used for one of the allowed characters elsewhere too, e.g. in the general description about conditionals (%?xx<true|false>) |
| 09:47:17 | pixelma | maybe * could work better - or setting "x" in italic? |
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| 09:48:47 | * | GodEater strives to unravel pixelma's double negatives |
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| 09:50:02 | pixelma | err... I think the new suggestion is not better - or I don't think it's better :) |
| 09:50:49 | JdGordon | is sqlite really the smallest c database engine? |
| 09:50:49 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25288): Tag release v1.2 of mkamsboot |
| 09:52:14 | funman | JdGordon: probably not. the smallest c sql database perhaps |
| 09:52:14 | ThomasAH | FlynDice, funman: One of the changes since enabling sound on the clip+ (don't know if yours or of another developer) causes some minor display problems: The "Shutting down" box no longer shows up (or so short that I can't see it) and when playing a song, then browsing through menus, then using "Now Playing" will only show a parial screen (status bar and seconds played/remaining and progress bar) |
| 09:52:39 | funman | ThomasAH: probably related to other commits |
| 09:52:57 | JdGordon | probably my commit.. although I havnt seen this behaviour |
| 09:53:15 | * | ThomasAH checks if the simulator exposes the problem |
| 09:55:07 | ThomasAH | JdGordon: clip+ simulator can reproduce the problem |
| 09:55:18 | ThomasAH | JdGordon: (with rockbox_default playing screen) |
| 09:56:35 | * | funman sent mkamsboot 1.2 binaries to B4gder |
| 09:56:51 | GodEater | I think a re-implementation of our tagcache system would make a nice GSOC project. |
| 09:57:12 | JdGordon | the db part? or the frontend? |
| 09:57:14 | JdGordon | or both? |
| 09:57:15 | GodEater | I'd like to see a proper design doc first - one which tries to capture the use cases first (i.e. what queries it would support) |
| 09:57:26 | GodEater | the db part |
| 09:59:50 | ThomasAH | JdGordon: reverting r25271 makes the problem vanish |
| 10:00 |
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| 10:00:46 | JdGordon | clip+ sim doesnt have the mouse button locations :/ |
| 10:00:48 | Luca_S | uhm, |
| 10:00:54 | Luca_S | the rockbox.org main page |
| 10:00:56 | Luca_S | has been defaced |
| 10:01:03 | Luca_S | is there a site admin? |
| 10:01:22 | funman | oops |
| 10:01:22 | GodEater | so it has :( |
| 10:01:24 | ThomasAH | JdGordon: right, and I don't know how to press the home button, too, but you don't need that to reproduce the problem |
| 10:01:31 | JdGordon | lucky us! |
| 10:01:48 | Luca_S | internal pages work correctly, it seems like it's just the home page |
| 10:01:48 | GodEater | Zagor / Bagder : you guys here? |
| 10:01:55 | Zagor | I am |
| 10:02:30 | GodEater | damn script kiddies |
| 10:02:49 | Zagor | who, me? :) |
| 10:02:58 | GodEater | no, the gits who defaced it |
| 10:03:15 | Zagor | oh crap, didn't see that |
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| 10:03:26 | GodEater | wonder how they got in this time |
| 10:03:32 | pamaury | GodEater: I'm not sure reimplementing the whole db makes sense. I've a better understanding of it now and I think we should simplify it. Perhaps drops some "features" that add code and seems not so useful |
| 10:03:32 | GodEater | forensics hats on :) |
| 10:03:34 | * | Llorean wonders if that's his real email address. |
| 10:03:46 | | Quit Luca_S (Client Quit) |
| 10:03:47 | GodEater | pamaury: I respectfully disagree |
| 10:04:02 | GodEater | it can't even managed basic tasks in it's current form - it needs work |
| 10:04:08 | Galois | not sure if it is a script kiddie, but if it is, there's no excuse for being vulnerable to canned attacks |
| 10:04:22 | pamaury | GodEater: which basic tasks ? |
| 10:04:28 | GodEater | see earlier in the channel |
| 10:04:31 | JdGordon | why do we even allow building the db on the target? |
| 10:04:43 | JdGordon | and if we really want that, why not move it into a plugin? |
| 10:04:48 | GodEater | JdGordon: to make rockbox platform independent |
| 10:05:00 | JdGordon | the db format is target dependant IIRC |
| 10:05:07 | JdGordon | independant* |
| 10:05:16 | pamaury | no |
| 10:05:22 | * | Llorean agrees with the "move it into a plugin" suggestion |
| 10:05:31 | GodEater | yes, but building it off target requires a computer based app |
| 10:05:34 | Llorean | I thought it used to at least be dependent on architecture endianness. |
| 10:05:41 | pamaury | no |
| 10:05:43 | JdGordon | GodEater: rbutil |
| 10:05:46 | GodEater | which means we have more code to support that needs to be supported across multiple targers |
| 10:05:54 | GodEater | JdGordon: yes, which we already have trouble supporting on OSX |
| 10:06:06 | GodEater | I disagree with moving db building into it |
| 10:06:26 | pamaury | rockbox is down ? |
| 10:06:28 | JdGordon | thats not technically true either... isnt the OSX issue a problem with <10.4 and a usb thing? |
| 10:06:34 | GodEater | pamaury: keep up |
| 10:06:40 | GodEater | you're not paying attention! |
| 10:06:51 | pamaury | ah true :) |
| 10:06:55 | JdGordon | the db code is entirely arch/target/everything independant wherever its coded |
| 10:07:10 | JdGordon | especially if the metadata lib happens (how is that going by the way?) |
| 10:07:29 | GodEater | JdGordon: I've no idea where the OSX problem is - the BIG problem with OSX is that we have barely any people with OSX in the first place, and even less with dev skills on it. |
| 10:07:52 | GodEater | metadata lib is currently stalled whilst I have too much work on |
| 10:08:12 | JdGordon | yes, but thats a moot point here because the db building is just writing to files which Qt makes OS independant |
| 10:08:31 | GodEater | yes, IF you can get the util to build in the first palce |
| 10:08:42 | GodEater | which seems a big if |
| 10:08:53 | JdGordon | bluebroth3r: yep, arm gcc crapped out |
| 10:09:17 | | Part switchgirl |
| 10:10:03 | pamaury | The db code is also a mess because, imo, it supports too many modes: there is normal mode, dircache mode, dircache+tcram mode and tcram mode iirc ! |
| 10:10:32 | JdGordon | shouldnt there be atleast one abstraction layer in there somewhere? :) |
| 10:10:40 | funman | GodEater: i have access to osx computers so i can perform some tests |
| 10:10:41 | GodEater | pamaury: yes - so refactoring from the ground up would be a good idea imo |
| 10:10:57 | Llorean | pamaury: And which of those modes should be removed, and why? |
| 10:10:58 | GodEater | funman: seriously, that's awesome - but you're one of so few |
| 10:11:18 | pixelma | GodEater: which problem with RbUtil on MacOS are you referring too? Works nicely on 10.4 (both Intel and PPC) |
| 10:11:24 | pixelma | s/too/to |
| 10:11:31 | GodEater | pixelma: isn't the build for OSX out of date currently ? |
| 10:11:45 | funman | GodEater: i'm using videolan servers, we could probably ask dionoea_ to create an account for rockboxers |
| 10:12:09 | pixelma | although I haven't tried installing a bootloader, but installing builds/themes/creating voices works |
| 10:12:42 | pixelma | GodEater: not more than the others and bluebroth3r builds for MacOS |
| 10:13:16 | GodEater | pixelma: ok - I must be mistaken then, I thought it was lagging behind because of some build issue |
| 10:13:45 | GodEater | or some bug bluebroth3r couldn't work out with the latest version which only manifested on OSX |
| 10:14:09 | pixelma | I believe the downloadable one from the wiki doesn't contain the latest voice fixes but that's because there was no new tagged release since |
| 10:14:34 | GodEater | I realise he builds on OSX himself, my point was more that *if* he runs into issues with it, his audience of fellow OSX hackers to bounce ideas off is incredibly shallow compared to windows / *nix |
| 10:15:05 | pixelma | maybe there is something about bootloader installation |
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| 10:15:32 | JdGordon | not too many people owning macs care about rockbox anyway though so big deal |
| 10:15:33 | pixelma | yeah, at least I can help out testing currently |
| 10:15:47 | pamaury | Llorean: I don't know. I believe that with a proper implementation, only normal mode should be needed. The db is not accessed often enough to justify such modes imo |
| 10:15:57 | pixelma | that's not a reason to have broken things |
| 10:17:05 | Llorean | pamaury: Doesn't that make it significantly slower? |
| 10:17:10 | pixelma | and by the way, I suggested a custom tagnavi creator (maybe standalone with possible integration into RbUtil) as gsoc project too last week |
| 10:17:24 | Llorean | Many users change or reorganize their playlists requeuing songs rather frequently |
| 10:17:55 | * | JdGordon just wants the db to be able to "resume" a query .. is that too much to ask? |
| 10:18:17 | pamaury | Llorean: yes but on many targets, the db is not loaded to ram by default so it's disk only. The truth is that the current implementation si crappy because the db is not always sorted and doesn't really take advantage of a sorted one iirc |
| 10:18:17 | JdGordon | something like /artist ~ A/ |
| 10:19:09 | pamaury | what do you mean by "resume" a query ? |
| 10:20:30 | JdGordon | be able to have some sort of path system like the file browser... /music/some_artist/ will always get you to the same place, why can't the db have something like that? "/artist starts_with A/Album/" |
| 10:20:34 | * | pamaury wonders what was the starting point of the whole discussion because he can't access the logs |
| 10:20:46 | Llorean | pamaury: Why should it be loaded to ram by default? Shouldn't it be the users choice of performance vs memory wasted? And what do you mean by "not always sorted"? |
| 10:22:20 | pamaury | Llorean: I don't really understand everything :) See: |
| 10:22:20 | pamaury | #define TAGCACHE_SORTED_TAGS |
| 10:22:22 | pamaury | ... |
| 10:22:53 | pamaury | JdGordon: you would like that to replace the whole db requests ? Access the db like the filesystem ? |
| 10:22:59 | GodEater | pamaury: the starting point of the discussion was Llorean and I talking about how it's not possible to play all albums from the db where each album is played in it's track order |
| 10:23:06 | | Quit m3dlg (Quit: RAGE QUIT) |
| 10:23:22 | GodEater | and I was saying how I'd looked into that a few months back, and then brought up the popular topic of re-implementing the db in sqlite |
| 10:23:50 | GodEater | which, despite the topic's popularity, is not a popular solution because of the memory footprint of sqlite compared to tagcache |
| 10:24:07 | GodEater | hence I'd like to see it re-implemented from the ground up so that it can do basic tasks like that |
| 10:24:14 | JdGordon | pamaury: yes and no. My beef is that a db playlist is kept as an APPEND for every track added (in .playlist_control) whereas a file playlist (dirplay) is a single line saying APPEND /some/directory/ |
| 10:24:45 | pamaury | yes that's because the search needs a state |
| 10:26:17 | pamaury | JdGordon: and how would you fs idea work ? I mean, if you want to search for an artist you access /artist=.../ for example ? |
| 10:26:18 | pixelma | GodEater: would it not be possibly to do what you want with a sort string that contains album and track name? Although I admit that this wouldn't make a well readable list |
| 10:27:38 | JdGordon | pamaury: I'm not necessairy suggesting a fs type thing, but being able to store/load a text represenatation of the query would be a HUGE benefit |
| 10:28:40 | pamaury | ok, I see your point |
| 10:29:15 | | Quit blairb (Quit: Leaving) |
| 10:31:05 | pamaury | That's quite independent of the current tagcache implementation although. But then GodEater is right, if we were to reimplement tagcache, the first work is to list use cases, wanted features and then implement it. |
| 10:31:50 | GodEater | pixelma: I tried that, it crashes Rockbox though, in a non-obvious way |
| 10:31:57 | JdGordon | I was going to say it sounds like GodEater's issue is with the frontend (tagtree.c) and yours is with the actual DB (tagcache.c) and both should be fixed and arnt necessarily related? |
| 10:32:16 | GodEater | I tried to track down the data-abort, but it's in our string handling somewhere, so not obviously in tagcache itself |
| 10:32:19 | pamaury | depends of whether we change the interface or not |
| 10:32:25 | pamaury | *s/of/on |
| 10:32:50 | pamaury | But yes my issue is wit the actual DB because the code is impossible to maintain |
| 10:33:04 | * | GodEater summons Slasheri |
| 10:33:46 | pamaury | Not sure Slasheri would do it, it was written so long ago :) |
| 10:33:47 | JdGordon | sholdnt the db just have a few tables, one for each the strings, another for *all* the int/static sized items, and another to link them all together? |
| 10:33:54 | JdGordon | whats so hard about that? |
| 10:34:03 | pamaury | because it's on the disk |
| 10:34:13 | pamaury | so there a zillions of errors to handle |
| 10:34:21 | amiconn | There are some special details to handle as well |
| 10:34:22 | GodEater | JdGordon: awesome - if it's so easy, do it yourself ! |
| 10:34:24 | pamaury | actually half of code is error handling |
| 10:34:37 | pamaury | And there are dircache and tcram modes also |
| 10:34:38 | JdGordon | don't allow errors to get in and there is no problem :) |
| 10:34:44 | GodEater | wth is tcram mode? |
| 10:35:07 | amiconn | E.g. some lists have to be sorted, but also need to be browsable in chunks, so they have to be pre-sorted on disk in a suitable way |
| 10:35:43 | JdGordon | the actual data sholdnt be sorted.. |
| 10:36:22 | amiconn | The actual data needs to be sorted... |
| 10:36:54 | amiconn | How else would you implement chunked browsing? |
| 10:37:23 | JdGordon | so an insert means moving potentially a massive amount of data? |
| 10:37:30 | JdGordon | surely only a index is kept sorted? |
| 10:38:24 | JdGordon | what is chunked browsing? |
| 10:39:19 | amiconn | The browser can only buffer max_files_in_dir entries at once for display, but some database lists are longer than that |
| 10:39:30 | amiconn | (namely the global "all tracks" list) |
| 10:40:00 | amiconn | So scrolling through such lists swaps max_files_in_dir chunks as needed |
| 10:40:31 | JdGordon | ok |
| 10:41:51 | amiconn | You could probably do this with an index, but it would probably slow down chunk loading on hdd targets noticeably, because of seeking |
| 10:41:53 | | Join mitk [0] (~mitk@195.117.162.130) |
| 10:42:07 | | Quit mitk (Client Quit) |
| 10:42:43 | | Join mitk [0] (~mitk@195.117.162.130) |
| 10:44:17 | | Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 10:45:00 | JdGordon | max_file_in_dir is a hell of a lot bigger than can be shown on screen quickly so as long as it doesnt block while its building that shouldnt be such a huge issue |
| 10:45:35 | JdGordon | i.e just get the first 2 screens worth while blocked then get the rest as needed in the background |
| 10:46:12 | | Join DerPapst [0] (~DerPapst@p5099d40e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:46:38 | JdGordon | but yeah, I guess reading is a lot more common than updateing so the actual data being sorted would have benefits |
| 10:46:49 | pixelma | you can see chunked browsing - there is a noticeable delay (I even noticed on my Ondio which is flash) |
| 10:47:25 | pixelma | just scroll quickly through a huge list |
| 10:48:01 | pixelma | (dircache or not probably has an influence) |
| 10:50:48 | Zagor | aaaand we're back |
| 10:50:53 | GodEater | hurrah |
| 10:51:22 | B4gder | less than an hour since the hack |
| 10:51:27 | GodEater | w00t |
| 10:53:33 | JdGordon | were any other sites taken down? |
| 10:53:59 | funman | other than www.rockbox ? |
| 10:54:01 | B4gder | well, we run several sites and all of them were down at the same time |
| 10:54:20 | JdGordon | any others hacked I mean :) |
| 10:54:28 | | Join DerPapst1 [0] (~DerPapst@p5099d40e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:54:32 | B4gder | yes, the attacker put his files all over really |
| 10:54:46 | B4gder | he found a way to upload a php script as the server user |
| 10:54:51 | | Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 10:54:54 | B4gder | and then he uploaded more files with that |
| 10:55:15 | B4gder | 41.232.54.102 is the guy |
| 10:55:48 | JdGordon | egypt |
| 10:55:51 | B4gder | yeps |
| 10:56:17 | | Join Luca_S [0] (~5d3fc54b@giant.haxx.se) |
| 10:56:26 | pamaury | I can't understand how someone could take time to do that, just destroying others work |
| 10:56:50 | JdGordon | that was most probably a script kiddie.. not someonee with enough brains to know how to actually do it |
| 10:56:55 | JdGordon | so no time at all |
| 10:57:17 | Zagor | pamaury: my 2-year old likes to smash her older brother's lego cars |
| 10:57:42 | Zagor | same thing here. same mental age too. |
| 10:57:43 | pamaury | when you're young that's different |
| 10:57:52 | pamaury | lol |
| 10:58:21 | JdGordon | Zagor: hang on.. there is something wrong with breaking lego cars? |
| 10:58:28 | JdGordon | thats fun-ist! |
| 10:58:39 | Zagor | her brother doesn't always agree :) |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:16 | | Quit funman (Quit: free(random());) |
| 11:00:22 | pamaury | GodEater: tcram mode is the when db is loaded into ram |
| 11:00:51 | JdGordon | why does the db care about dircache? |
| 11:01:07 | pamaury | because there is little optimization for file names |
| 11:01:21 | pamaury | That's really hacky |
| 11:01:41 | JdGordon | directly talking to dircache instead of the proper file/folder handling? |
| 11:01:46 | pamaury | yes |
| 11:01:57 | JdGordon | .... :/ |
| 11:01:57 | pamaury | hacky... |
| 11:02:07 | CIA-5 | New commit by uchida (r25289): fix bug: WAV file playback does not resume (FS #11077) ... |
| 11:02:27 | GodEater | I thought *everything* did that wrt dircache? |
| 11:02:37 | GodEater | assuming it's enabled that is |
| 11:02:51 | | Join JohannesSM64 [0] (~johannes@cm-84.215.116.196.getinternet.no) |
| 11:02:52 | JdGordon | through an abstraction layer |
| 11:03:22 | JdGordon | dir_open() (or whatever it is) does the magic to decide where to get filenames from (IIRC) |
| 11:03:27 | GodEater | yep |
| 11:03:32 | JdGordon | or I'd bloody assume that would be the case |
| 11:04:16 | pamaury | opendir uses opendir_cached when dircache is enabled and opendir_uncached if not or something like that |
| 11:05:09 | pamaury | I don't like the idea of tagcache messing up with dircache. |
| 11:08:16 | | Quit flydutch (Quit: /* empty */) |
| 11:08:39 | pamaury | And anyway, the current code doesn't allow to add a single database entry easily, does it ? |
| 11:09:20 | JdGordon | sounds like you currently know the code better than anyone else.. so you tell us :p |
| 11:09:45 | JdGordon | are there tiny database engines aroudn that arnt sql based that would make sense thinking about using? |
| 11:09:47 | pamaury | I think not, but 4000 lines is too many for a single mind to remind of :) |
| 11:11:53 | pamaury | Anyone against committing my FAT patch ? |
| 11:12:36 | gevaerts | pamaury: yes. It makes things smaller, so it can't be called a FAT patch! |
| 11:12:51 | gevaerts | Apart from that, no |
| 11:13:05 | | Join aholic [0] (aholic@pool-74-103-220-127.prvdri.fios.verizon.net) |
| 11:13:22 | * | pamaury throws a FAT patch on gevaerts to crush him |
| 11:13:31 | JdGordon | vFAT? |
| 11:13:54 | pamaury | ? |
| 11:15:20 | pamaury | gevaerts: I'll commit it in a min, I changed some comments, I feel some were unclear |
| 11:16:45 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:17:46 | pamaury | people that know FAT spec: do you think the FAT code should check for checksums in LFN entries ? |
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| 11:24:38 | | Join _silentAssassin [0] (~mrigesh@iws3.iiita.ac.in) |
| 11:32:37 | ranmachan | pamaury: I'd say it's unnecessary. I think the checksums protect agains vFAT unaware OSes (old DOS) messing up the directory. |
| 11:32:52 | ranmachan | And who is still using an OS that doesn't handle vFAT these days? |
| 11:33:38 | | Join xsteadfastx [0] (~spectrum@91.186.44.136) |
| 11:33:39 | ranmachan | Or rather they are for detecting that someone not aware of vFAT has messed up the directory entries. |
| 11:33:45 | xsteadfastx | hey :) |
| 11:33:55 | xsteadfastx | how can i say if my sansa fuze is v1 or v2? |
| 11:35:17 | ranmachan | On my C200v2 is says v2 in very small letters on the back. |
| 11:35:27 | CIA-5 | New commit by pamaury (r25290): FS #11118: reduce the number of cached sector in FAT code because some are useless after a rewrite of LFN entries handling. Also makes LFN handling ... |
| 11:35:33 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@skatol.ch.pw.edu.pl) |
| 11:35:41 | JdGordon | xsteadfastx: the OF version is the only way to know for sure |
| 11:35:47 | Luca_S | xsteadfastx: the only way is to check the OF version |
| 11:36:53 | xsteadfastx | how can i do that? |
| 11:37:11 | JdGordon | go into the sansa firmware and find the version in the info screen somewhere |
| 11:37:27 | xsteadfastx | oh ok...cool :) is there something in the wiki about it? |
| 11:37:28 | Luca_S | in the OF: Settings => System Settings => Information |
| 11:37:43 | Luca_S | (or something like that, I have it localized) |
| 11:39:04 | xsteadfastx | ah thank you alot |
| 11:39:50 | xsteadfastx | cool..then i will try that when im at home |
| 11:39:54 | xsteadfastx | i even have a g5 ipod 30gb |
| 11:40:05 | xsteadfastx | i dont use it anymore...maybe perfect fpr rockbox |
| 11:40:22 | xsteadfastx | and fuze has a strange tag encoding bug...im sure it will get better with rockbox |
| 11:41:33 | * | pamaury : nice green delta ! |
| 11:41:59 | JdGordon | not too shabby |
| 11:42:26 | JdGordon | uchida strieks again... |
| 11:43:53 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FDC9318.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:45:56 | pamaury | JdGordon: what did uchida dod ? |
| 11:47:11 | | Quit jordan` (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 11:47:12 | CIA-5 | New commit by uchida (r25291): fix yellow |
| 11:49:21 | * | pixelma waits for the dust settling on pamaury's commit... being affected by the previous filesystem errors on directory delete bug ;) |
| 11:50:53 | pixelma | which he also fixed then though |
| 11:51:36 | pamaury | and that I also introduced first :) |
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| 11:55:03 | | Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 11:56:02 | * | pamaury just remembered that there is still a sync bug between dircache and file browser... |
| 11:59:57 | wodz | I have hit small but irritating bug. If I select System menu it automaticly enters to the first item in this menu (rockbox info). |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:11 | Luca_S | funman: could your patch to enable sound on Clip+ work for Clipv2? I'm asking because on the TargetStatus wiki page it says 'only tested on clip+'... |
| 12:00:15 | wodz | do You see something like this? |
| 12:00:35 | funman | Luca_S: i have no clipv2 to test, but the code is enabled anyway, so you could tell us if clipv2 sounds works |
| 12:01:14 | Luca_S | I was just curious, unluckily I only own a FuzeV2 |
| 12:01:33 | gevaerts | wodz: I've never seen that. A bug in your button driver maybe? |
| 12:02:38 | | Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@p548599C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:03:47 | wodz | I get this on ipod mini 1G and in my experimental port to HD200. But interesting thing is that I also get this in sim |
| 12:04:11 | linuxstb | Maybe a problem with your action definitions? |
| 12:05:23 | PaulJam | hi, i was trying to download an older daily build, but after selecting the target the table at the top of the page ( http://www.rockbox.org/dl.cgi?bin=iriverh300 ) is empty. is this just a temporary issue or have you removed the daily builds? |
| 12:05:36 | wodz | maybe |
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| 12:09:28 | JdGordon | PaulJam: rb.org was hacked before.. maybe the files got wiped |
| 12:09:59 | gevaerts | no, they've been gone for at least a few days |
| 12:10:12 | PaulJam | ok |
| 12:17:03 | funman | hm i can't reboot my clip+ to rockbox when it panics (black screen), but rebooting to OF works (when holding the dualboot button) |
| 12:17:39 | | Quit kugel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:18:24 | ThomasAH | funman: I can't confirm this ... cube crashed once yesterday with black screen, booting directly into Rockbox worked after >10seconds-poweroff |
| 12:18:54 | funman | ThomasAH: when in the panic screen (*PANIC*), you can reboot immediately with any keypres |
| 12:19:16 | ThomasAH | funman: it was completely black screen for me, no *PANIC* |
| 12:19:17 | PaulJam | JdGordon: btw, since your commit yesterday there seems to be a problem with the quickscreen. the screen flashes shortly and the the screen stays blank. after changing a setting it shows up again. |
| 12:19:52 | JdGordon | I've been trying to track these issues down... no idea how that change did it |
| 12:20:02 | JdGordon | I'll revert it in the next few days if I cant fix it |
| 12:20:37 | JdGordon | it apparently is a problem with a setting.... no issues on my mini2g |
| 12:21:26 | JdGordon | unless... |
| 12:24:40 | Luca_S | on the forums, pxby says sound works on the ClipV2 too.. dunno if it's worth a gentlemen mail, but congrats again funman :D |
| 12:28:40 | JdGordon | so here is what *must* be the problem.... before that change every line in the default viewport in the sbs was run through *every single update loop*, now it only happens if the line has "dynamic" content |
| 12:29:46 | JdGordon | which means the current behaviour is more correct, but a full update appears to be missing somewhere |
| 12:29:49 | JdGordon | I think |
| 12:30:30 | JdGordon | PaulJam: can you change skin_display.c line 1180 to make that "if (1)" and see if that fixes things? |
| 12:30:42 | PaulJam | sure |
| 12:31:14 | JdGordon | thanks |
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| 12:40:57 | PaulJam | JdGordon: no, that didn't fix it. |
| 12:41:07 | JdGordon | ok, good :) |
| 12:41:24 | JdGordon | although that means i have no idea how that commit broke anything |
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| 12:44:53 | PaulJam | btw, the remote display (in the uisim) works fine, this only happens in the main screen. |
| 12:45:39 | | Quit mischasworld (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 12:47:50 | kugel | nothing was updated in the sbs' default vp, only the get_line call happened to evaluate conditionals |
| 12:49:20 | | Quit mischa (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 12:52:14 | kugel | it was obvious (to me) that something like this happens which was the reason I did it how it was and declared drawing in the default vp/%Vi is unsupported |
| 12:52:50 | funman | FlynDice: ping |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:29 | JdGordon | kugel: well take this any way you want.. thats just stupid |
| 13:00:41 | xsteadfastx | is there a player i can buy now and where i can use rockbox on? i mean im sure i dont get something like the fuze v1 no more |
| 13:00:53 | JdGordon | and if that was the logic then it shold have been handled explicitly |
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| 13:02:25 | wodz | do the rockbox ata driver support flush_cache command? I cant figure that out |
| 13:02:54 | Luca_S | xsteadfastx: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/BuyersGuide - according to that table, nothing supported is in production anymore, so I suggest some of the most recent sansas (except fuzev2), work on them is progressing quite nicely |
| 13:04:11 | xsteadfastx | Luca_S, something like the clip? |
| 13:05:00 | JdGordon | what was actually happening was that the default viewport AND the ui viewports were having all their lines parsed every single update loop when they shouldnt be |
| 13:05:12 | Luca_S | It really depends on your needs. Have a look at the wiki pages, all that I could tell you is there. |
| 13:05:38 | | Join perfectdrug_ [0] (~marko@p5B0EC521.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:06:15 | kugel | JdGordon: I don't understand |
| 13:06:21 | | Join mischa [0] (~quassel@193.174.158.83) |
| 13:06:26 | kugel | parsed? |
| 13:06:29 | | Quit mischasworld (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 13:06:37 | JdGordon | in the displayer.. I cant tinhk of a better word |
| 13:07:21 | kugel | I changed nothing (because I don't know the side effects of get_line, I only figured it's needed for conditionals), I only added the exception for hidden viewports so that drawing doesn't happen in them |
| 13:07:46 | JdGordon | except you didnt |
| 13:07:49 | kugel | I don't think I added anything to it which didn't already happen before |
| 13:08:11 | kugel | please explain that for me |
| 13:08:11 | JdGordon | yes and no |
| 13:08:52 | | Quit perfectdrug (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 13:09:05 | JdGordon | get_line() does some drawing without checking the update mode, so if those tags are in the sbs' default viewport then they would be drawn |
| 13:09:38 | JdGordon | my commit didnt fix that but made it more obvious. All your excpetion really wanted was to make sure the default viewport isnt cleared every update |
| 13:09:51 | JdGordon | I dont understand how that change breaks other screens though |
| 13:10:07 | JdGordon | PaulJam: got a min for another quick maybe fix? |
| 13:11:04 | JdGordon | add "!(hidden_flags&VP_NEVER_CLEAR) &&" to the end of line 1227 after the &&'s in skin_display.c please |
| 13:11:07 | | Part froggyman |
| 13:11:18 | PaulJam | ok |
| 13:12:11 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25292): sd-as3525v2: read cid & csd in the correct order, fix disk info |
| 13:16:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:17:30 | funman | FlynDice: i got wait for state errors (waiting for TRAN, still in PRG - so i suppose after STOP_TRANSMISSION cmd - ), when trying to print status bits from the main loop while (retry || count), not even trying to write at this point (just inserting the µSD) |
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| 13:20:00 | PaulJam | JdGordon: that didn't fix it either. |
| 13:20:10 | JdGordon | ok thanks |
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| 13:24:14 | kugel | JdGordon: the conditionals logic and the drawing should probably more separated to have more control on what's being drawn and what not |
| 13:24:34 | JdGordon | yes, any idea how to do that though? |
| 13:25:03 | JdGordon | we can make it only do conditional tags, but nothing forces them to not draw in those |
| 13:25:15 | kugel | if get_line draws, it's bad IMO, it would be better if there was a drawing function (maybe per skin viewport) which draws depending on the get_line result |
| 13:25:17 | JdGordon | especially if we move the bmp drawing directly into the tag handling (which i want to do) |
| 13:25:25 | kugel | no, I have no idea how to do it right now |
| 13:25:37 | JdGordon | I dont really like the big drawing at the end |
| 13:26:37 | JdGordon | another way it could have been done was just get rid of the hidden_vp var and use the vp_redraw_mode to figure out if we can draw or not |
| 13:26:46 | xsteadfastx | oh the clip+ looks nice..cant wait for rockbox support |
| 13:26:52 | kugel | I think I tried that without much success |
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| 13:27:21 | JdGordon | I want to have a fiddle with how the hiding viewports work.. I dont know if you saw, I want to allow the ui viewport to be conditioanlly chosen |
| 13:29:19 | * | kugel doesn't see the point of that, but well |
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| 13:36:48 | elinenbe | FlynDice: no dice on writing to the storage on the Clip+ yet? |
| 13:37:16 | funman | elinenbe: when it'll be done, status will be updated on the wiki |
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| 13:49:27 | wodz | does sleep() work with disabled interrupts? |
| 13:49:43 | funman | nope |
| 13:49:52 | funman | sleep() rely on the tick interrupt |
| 13:50:30 | funman | PP have a µseconds counter which can be used as a usleep() when interrupts are disabled |
| 13:51:14 | wodz | coldfire has also second harware counter. But I can not figure out how to use it with current implementation |
| 13:52:10 | wodz | am I correct that sleep() does not guarantee precise delay? |
| 13:53:17 | funman | afaik sleep() just gives control to the next thread until the delay has elapsed so it could be longer |
| 13:53:40 | wodz | ok thats how I understood this |
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| 14:00 |
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| 14:17:29 | pamaury | gevaerts: I'm trying to implement the new usb api I mentionned to you and found something nasty. I'm currently implementing queueing because it's necessary for most endpoints. So I set up a queue for EP_CONTROL in both direction of size 1 and of course everything worked well for send because usb_drv_send is blocking (so the queue was never full on request) but on recv, I encountered a situation where usb_drv_recv was called whereras the previ |
| 14:17:29 | pamaury | ous one had not finished ! My code refused the transfer because the queue was full but on the current code, there is a potential overwrite (even though is was ack so not problematic)... |
| 14:19:49 | gevaerts | pamaury: is that one queue for both directions, or one queue per direction? |
| 14:19:57 | pamaury | one queue for each |
| 14:20:10 | pamaury | so two queue for EP_CONTROL, one send, one recv |
| 14:20:18 | pamaury | of size 1 currently |
| 14:20:25 | gevaerts | hm, that shouldn't happen as far as I can see... |
| 14:21:00 | | Quit Rob2222 (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:21:08 | pamaury | that's sound strange for me also but I'm telling you what I see :) |
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| 14:22:39 | gevaerts | I'll have a look tonight unless you've found it before |
| 14:22:46 | pamaury | I think it's due to the implementation of usb_drv_int: it check for a control received before a transfer completion. so if the transfer completion arises and a setup, the setup is treated and the queue is not emptied in my code |
| 14:23:11 | pamaury | So it might be specific to my code then |
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| 14:26:17 | xsteadfastx | the sansa e250 should work cause its in the e200 series? |
| 14:27:22 | Luca_S | xsteadfastx: yes |
| 14:27:37 | xsteadfastx | thats cool...cause you still can get them :) |
| 14:28:12 | pamaury | gevaerts: but to be honest, there is something I don't like in usb_drv_recv. Because usb_core assumes that on a control transfer, usb_drv_recv will fill the buffer immediately. So it's assumed that it's sort of blocking whereras it is not but it's working because the data is already there... I am wrong ? |
| 14:30:40 | gevaerts | pamaury: I don't know |
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| 14:51:35 | byondo | hello everyone |
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| 14:53:23 | byondo | anyone to help me w/ clipv2? |
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| 14:56:33 | evilnick_B | byondo: Ask the question you want an answer to and if anyone knows then they'll help |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:03:11 | maxc1006 | here I am once again |
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| 15:03:56 | byondo | switched to mirc client, web client was sooo lagged |
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| 15:04:29 | byondo | so I want to test rockbox on my clipv2 |
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| 15:05:08 | | Join JohannesSM64 [0] (~johannes@cm-84.215.116.196.getinternet.no) |
| 15:06:49 | byondo | I have OF, mkamsboot, daily clipv2 compiled RB, I need bootloader...? |
| 15:07:55 | Zagor | isn't both clip v2 and clip+ ready to be tagged "unstable"? |
| 15:08:16 | kugel | without write support? |
| 15:08:37 | byondo | yes, I know |
| 15:09:21 | byondo | just want to try, but if you think I could birck it, I'll wait :) |
| 15:09:23 | Zagor | kugel: I'd say it depends. if it works ok as a read-only player, I'd say it should be "unstable" |
| 15:11:09 | kugel | I wouldn't mind :) |
| 15:11:51 | Zagor | and again i think "Complete" and "Incomplete" are better names for the tier 1&2 ports |
| 15:14:13 | kugel | except complete doesn't apply to all stable targets |
| 15:14:18 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmmmm S_a_i_n_t does indeed dislike the wording used in FS #11101. Do you think "USB: Charge By Default" is any better than "USB Charging By Default?" |
| 15:14:29 | S_a_i_n_t | its really the "?" in the menu I dislike. |
| 15:14:37 | Zagor | kugel: such as? |
| 15:14:57 | byondo | I found compiled RB for clipv2 in the daily folder |
| 15:15:15 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t: It's nothing to do with charging, though, no? |
| 15:15:21 | Torne | That sounds *really* confusing |
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| 15:15:35 | Torne | It charges (or not) according ot the value of a completely unrelated setting. |
| 15:15:45 | S_a_i_n_t | Well, it *is* kinda to do with charging |
| 15:16:04 | S_a_i_n_t | All it does though is stop you from having to press menu to charge with the player on |
| 15:16:09 | S_a_i_n_t | *using the RB FW |
| 15:16:10 | Torne | Yes, but it *charges either way* |
| 15:16:17 | Torne | unless you have disabled usb charging with the setting for that ;0 |
| 15:16:25 | Torne | It's enabling/disabling USB *data* connection |
| 15:16:30 | Torne | this is nothing to do with charging |
| 15:16:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 15:17:38 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmm, yes. I see your point.But "Use this setting so you don;t have to long press a key to keep the player on" is a little long ;P |
| 15:18:14 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:18:15 | S_a_i_n_t | I *really* can't come up with a wording that a: looks good, and b: fits the bill. |
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| 15:18:57 | S_a_i_n_t | "looks good" isn;t nearly as important, but I seem to dislike the "?" in the Menu entry for some reason...and see it as a "no no" |
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| 15:20:30 | S_a_i_n_t | The Authors second suggestion(s) on his FS# are just as bad (IMO) and I'd hate to see bad wording keep this from getting comitted. |
| 15:20:56 | S_a_i_n_t | As its *kinda* usefull, the GF had been bugging me about it for some time now. |
| 15:21:08 | Torne | Default behaviour on USB connection: Data transfer | Charging only |
| 15:21:41 | | Quit DerPapst1 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:21:47 | Torne | Or just "Default USB connection action"? |
| 15:21:48 | Torne | shorter. |
| 15:21:49 | Torne | I dunno. |
| 15:21:52 | S_a_i_n_t | that line doesn't fit by a LONG shot though..well of course it will scroll, but I like to try and keep menu entries as short as possible |
| 15:21:58 | Torne | Yes. |
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| 15:22:01 | S_a_i_n_t | That is the best one I've seen so far though |
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| 15:22:13 | Torne | Default USB mode, even? |
| 15:22:36 | Zagor | that sounds like I'd choose between UMS and MTP |
| 15:22:41 | S_a_i_n_t | Yeah, that works...but needs a COMPLETE rewrite of the code..as the options are yes/no |
| 15:22:48 | S_a_i_n_t | so, that would make it more confusing. |
| 15:22:49 | S_a_i_n_t | :/ |
| 15:22:56 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t: Boolean settings with custom on/off phrasing are not hard |
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| 15:23:00 | Torne | There's a macro for it even |
| 15:23:14 | S_a_i_n_t | not hard for you perhaps :P |
| 15:23:21 | Torne | Zagor: Maybe, but so? If we added MTP in the future then that'd be a perfectly good place to put it as a third choice |
| 15:23:29 | Torne | Zagor: i think that fits fine |
| 15:23:51 | Zagor | yeah, that makes sense |
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| 15:24:10 | S_a_i_n_t | Yes, I actually quite like that suggestion (Torne's)..but implementing it (without guidance) is a little beyond me. |
| 15:24:27 | Torne | Zagor: maybe something other than "Data transfer", then? |
| 15:24:40 | Torne | Default USB mode: Storage device, charging only |
| 15:24:57 | S_a_i_n_t | That's the best yet. IMO |
| 15:25:00 | Torne | I would think "storage device" implies MSC to people who know what that is, and still means somethign to people who don't |
| 15:25:07 | Zagor | anything wrong with "USB Mass Storage"? |
| 15:25:13 | Torne | Zagor: I guess not |
| 15:25:23 | S_a_i_n_t | its longer? :P |
| 15:25:26 | Torne | Well, just mass storage |
| 15:25:28 | Torne | the option already says usb |
| 15:26:11 | Zagor | in that case I think I'd rather opt for "Storage device". "Mass storage" sounds a bit weird alone. :) |
| 15:26:23 | Zagor | I want my bike shed purlple! |
| 15:26:44 | Torne | Heh |
| 15:26:46 | S_a_i_n_t | yes, but keep in mind it'l be prefixed with USB*something*: probably |
| 15:26:53 | Torne | Zagor: yeah we are bikeshedding a bit |
| 15:27:09 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t: anyway i would fix up the patch right now but i'm supposed to be working |
| 15:27:20 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t: so either someone else can do it or you can poke me in six hours |
| 15:27:25 | | Join FlynDice_ [0] (~FlynDice@63.161.128.2) |
| 15:27:38 | pixelma | Zagor: about "complete" - e.g. charging on the Iaudios |
| 15:27:50 | S_a_i_n_t | Is there some example you know of I could glean the info I need from in the source? |
| 15:28:51 | Torne | look for BOOL_SETTING |
| 15:28:58 | S_a_i_n_t | thax |
| 15:29:05 | S_a_i_n_t | thanks rather |
| 15:29:08 | Torne | as opposed to ONOFF_SETTING |
| 15:29:34 | Torne | BOOL has free choice of lang string and string to use in the .cfg |
| 15:29:50 | Zagor | pixelma: is that the m3 or all the iaudios? |
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| 15:31:49 | Zagor | and that doesn't make me like the "unstable" name any more. it's simply misleading. |
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| 15:33:59 | * | gevaerts isn't always very happy about the preexisting release ports automatically getting the "stable" label |
| 15:35:48 | Zagor | right, "stable" is also misleading when we screw things up. |
| 15:36:05 | Zagor | it might even have been me suggesting the names from debian, but I still don't like them now. |
| 15:36:45 | Zagor | our release process isn't anywhere near debian's |
| 15:36:55 | | Quit DV (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:37:06 | Zagor | the only thing the tiers say is how much code has been written for each model. |
| 15:37:07 | | Join DV [0] (~DV@218.248.65.245) |
| 15:40:14 | FlynDice_ | funman: (logs) re: (waiting for TRAN, still in PRG) I haven't seen this yet but I think it's a good sign. If we know it's getting into PRG mode then I think that means the card is actually getting some data into it's buffers. |
| 15:40:31 | | Quit DV (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:40:50 | byondo | hello FlynDice |
| 15:41:18 | | Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 15:41:23 | FlynDice_ | hi... |
| 15:41:28 | byondo | are you a sansaAMS expert, right? :) |
| 15:41:53 | FlynDice_ | expert is stretching it quite a bit but I know a little |
| 15:42:11 | byondo | I'm trying to install the daily RB to my clipv2 |
| 15:42:14 | byondo | eheh |
| 15:42:37 | | Join DV [0] (~DV@218.248.65.245) |
| 15:42:47 | byondo | I have to do it with win32... |
| 15:43:28 | byondo | and mkamsboot is not compiled with latest "original firmware adding" |
| 15:43:47 | byondo | isn't it? |
| 15:44:16 | byondo | latest OF: 2.01.35 |
| 15:45:25 | FlynDice_ | I think I heard some thing about that. If that firmware is a recent update I would just try using mkamsboot with an older firmware that mkamsboot recognizes. |
| 15:46:10 | byondo | ok, so I will have a clip with dual firmware, right? |
| 15:46:35 | byondo | the original one patched w/ mkamsboot and RB? |
| 15:46:44 | Luca_S | byondo: did you try to use the latest SVN mkamsboot? just today funman committed the checksum for version 2.01.35 |
| 15:47:19 | Luca_S | you can still see the commit message on the home page |
| 15:47:25 | | Quit DV (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:47:51 | byondo | Luca_S, I see it, but it seems there's no win32 compiled mkamsboot w/ that commit |
| 15:48:17 | wodz | I am preparing initial patch to add new target. How should I treat binary file in the patch? (UI graphic for simulator) |
| 15:48:36 | mitk | FlynDice_: About 4 hours ago funman sent compiled binaries of mkamsboot v1.2 to Zagor or Badger. Don't remember to which one.. |
| 15:48:41 | | Join DV [0] (~DV@218.248.65.243) |
| 15:48:44 | wodz | svn diff ignores binary files |
| 15:49:21 | S_a_i_n_t | wodz: can't you add them with svn add? Or does it just ignore them completely? |
| 15:49:33 | Torne | You'll need to just post the binary file seperately along with the patch |
| 15:49:43 | wodz | ok |
| 15:50:25 | | Quit anewuser () |
| 15:51:01 | FlynDice_ | mitk: Which ata error did you see with you 8GB clip+? |
| 15:52:52 | mitk | FlynDice: It was just question on the forum, not bug report. I can tell you that in 3 hours if you like. No clipp around. |
| 15:53:56 | wodz | how verbose should be comment to the FS task with initial port patch? |
| 15:54:55 | | Quit elinenbe (Read error: No route to host) |
| 15:55:08 | | Quit DV (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 15:55:18 | byondo | so is there any risk to brick clipv2 with this r25292? |
| 15:55:28 | | Join elinenbe [0] (~elinenbe@207-237-241-192.c3-0.80w-ubr1.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 15:55:31 | FlynDice_ | mitk: Post it on the forum or in the logs here, yes I would like to know so I can see where it's failing. That info is related to devolopement. |
| 15:55:44 | B4gder | byondo: the sansas are never risk-free |
| 15:55:59 | gevaerts | the AMS sansas anyway |
| 15:56:03 | mitk | I will then |
| 15:56:03 | B4gder | right |
| 15:56:17 | byondo | eheh |
| 15:56:33 | FlynDice_ | byondo: there is always a risk but there have been no bricks reported with the clipv2, clip+ had at least 2 so far early on |
| 15:57:31 | ThomasAH | FlynDice_: With 3-4 hours of 8GB clip+ with 8GB SDHC usage during the weekend I did not have a single ATA error. Most songs came from the internal memory, but I played some from the card, too. |
| 15:57:59 | byondo | FlynDice: ok, so I wait for the new compiled mkamsboot, or use an old OF firmware? |
| 15:58:05 | FlynDice_ | ThomasAH: Great, thanks for the info! |
| 15:58:40 | | Quit mitk (Quit: Leaving) |
| 15:59:05 | ThomasAH | FlynDice_: SD access icon works, too, since your changes this morning |
| 15:59:31 | FlynDice_ | byondo: Yes, to me those seem like those are your choices |
| 16:00 |
| 16:01:05 | FlynDice_ | ThomasAH: Your 8GB is playing fine today since my changes last night? |
| 16:01:35 | byondo | I'm impatient, I will try w/ old OF :) |
| 16:01:47 | wodz | please look at FS #11137 |
| 16:02:23 | kugel | Zagor: USB |
| 16:05:00 | ThomasAH | FlynDice_: Only checked few minutes ... should I try longer? |
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| 16:06:04 | pixelma | Zagor: all |
| 16:06:10 | S_a_i_n_t | Can somebody that knows their way around the code please look at FS5111 and tell me how I managed to bork the piezo for iPod nano1g (and probably all the other targets except the nano2g which TheSeven adden support for afterward)? |
| 16:06:14 | kugel | and charging too |
| 16:06:26 | S_a_i_n_t | I can't see what I've done wrong :( |
| 16:06:37 | pixelma | Zagor: no real charging under Rockbox, M3 is worst though |
| 16:07:04 | FlynDice_ | ThomasAH: No, that's fine, mitk was getting an ATA error on startup and I was wondering if it was related to his player being 8GB. If yours starts up fine and plays it must be another reason. |
| 16:07:47 | byondo | FlynDice: ah,err... "Model name "clv2" not found in bootloader-clip.sansa" :( |
| 16:08:55 | linuxstb | byondo: Did you compile a "clip" (v1) bootloader? |
| 16:09:06 | FlynDice_ | byondo: Did you do a bootloader build? |
| 16:09:28 | byondo | linuxstb & FlynDice: nope :) |
| 16:09:30 | ThomasAH | FlynDice_: just tested, works without inserted SDHC card, too :) |
| 16:09:41 | FlynDice_ | ThomasAH: Thanks |
| 16:09:57 | byondo | just downloaded from rockbox site |
| 16:10:15 | byondo | effectively it's outdated... |
| 16:10:28 | | Join Farthen [0] (~chatzilla@e179233012.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:10:31 | linuxstb | byondo: You downloaded a clipv1 bootloader. |
| 16:10:43 | byondo | yes, for sure... |
| 16:10:55 | byondo | think I have to wait |
| 16:11:16 | S_a_i_n_t | pixelma: I see your point about my suggestion for the Next Track tags in the manual...I guess my problem with them is that there is nothing that suggests that x is a variable |
| 16:11:45 | S_a_i_n_t | Your suggestion of italics, and or enclosing it in ' 's is a lot better. |
| 16:13:38 | | Join DV [0] (~DV@218.248.65.241) |
| 16:14:04 | pixelma | I thought the ' ' was yours but maybe you just added them here to point things out |
| 16:15:17 | byondo | strange, mkamsboot has clipv2 compatibility but there's no bootloader for clipv2 to use with...? |
| 16:16:12 | kugel | we don't have released bootloaders for the newer ams sansas |
| 16:16:20 | kugel | you need to build from svn |
| 16:16:39 | wodz | Regarding new port, I added initial patch to FS. Should I do something else or just sit and wait for reviews? |
| 16:17:12 | | Join DerPapst [0] (~DerPapst@p4FE8FF49.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:18:26 | byondo | kugel: ah ok thanks, so I just have to wait |
| 16:18:30 | linuxstb | byondo: clipv2 is still in development. Once it has all the things a user needs to install, it will be listed in "unstable" status. |
| 16:18:51 | | Quit DV (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 16:19:07 | B4gder | wodz: you can also try asking for feedback here or on the dev mailing list |
| 16:19:56 | wodz | ok I'll post to dev ml also than |
| 16:21:40 | byondo | linuxstb: yes, I was just too happy from reading latest posts on the forum, I forgot it ;) |
| 16:23:13 | | Join Llorean [0] (~DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean) |
| 16:24:30 | byondo | goodbye all and thanks for the info's :) |
| 16:24:49 | | Quit byondo () |
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| 16:31:30 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 16:34:01 | linuxstb | wodz: Do you need your own bootloader file? i.e. could you share an existing Coldfire bootloader? |
| 16:34:08 | | Quit Adubb (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:34:13 | linuxstb | wodz: There's also an unrelated whitespace change in bootloader/common.c |
| 16:34:15 | | Join Adubb [0] (~aldubuc@67.201.160.144) |
| 16:35:49 | linuxstb | wodz: (I guess I should be posting to the tracker....) Maybe "mpio" isn't the best choice for model string, assuming there are other "mpio" targets apart from HD200. |
| 16:37:00 | wodz | linuxstb: it has many similarities with iriver h300 bootloader but I think it is cleaner to have separate bootloader than nightmare of ifdefs |
| 16:37:53 | wodz | linuxstb: I am aware that "mpio" is not perfect but 4 chars do not allow me to put hd200 as a model string |
| 16:39:27 | linuxstb | Maybe just hd20? |
| 16:41:01 | wodz | If You think it is ok to truncate the name I can use this |
| 16:42:29 | Llorean | You could go the old school route, HDCC. Roman numerals can manage 200 in 2 digits. :-P |
| 16:42:40 | Luca_S | :D |
| 16:43:30 | wodz | Llorean: cool but I am afraid this may be missleading to someone reading sources in the future |
| 16:43:45 | pixelma | hdcc ;) |
| 16:43:56 | B4gder | c8 in hex! |
| 16:43:56 | * | pixelma was too slow |
| 16:44:28 | Llorean | HD20 is probably 'good enough' anyway. |
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| 16:44:49 | wodz | btw: why there is 4 chars limit? |
| 16:46:53 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 16:48:12 | linuxstb | wodz (for the logs): Simply because it's always been a four-char value, since it was invented to distinguish between the h100, h120 and h300... |
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| 16:51:25 | Blue_Dude | A working patch for an assignable hotkey is available at FS #11081. It's transparent if the target doesn't have HOTKEY defined in its config file. So far its functions are limited but the framework is in place and it can be easliy expanded. |
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| 16:56:41 | saratoga | wow a new coldfire target :) |
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| 17:04:39 | Llorean | Blue_Dude: You are aware that your patch is a configurable button, which has traditionally been a no-do. |
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| 17:16:52 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 17:24:51 | * | linuxstb has no problem with customising the action of otherwise unused buttons |
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| 17:28:39 | * | S_a_i_n_t spots "CPU: arm ; Manufacturer: s5l8700" in rockbox-info for the Nano2g. Shouldn't it be "CPU: s5l8700 ; Manufacturer: arm"? |
| 17:31:21 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25293): Clip+: arbitrary combo (home+select) for button lock |
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| 17:38:19 | pixelma | arm is definitely not the manufacturer, it's the architecture |
| 17:40:45 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmm...in saying that though s5l8700 isn't the manufacturer either though... |
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| 17:42:15 | | Quit PaulJam (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 17:42:34 | linuxstb | S_a_i_n_t: That's simply what the levels in the target tree system are (inaccurately) called. That's probably nonsense for a lot of targets. |
| 17:42:40 | kugel | S_a_i_n_t: that's old, the new prefered interpretation is soc |
| 17:43:13 | S_a_i_n_t | If its old...why did it *just* compile that way? |
| 17:43:43 | kugel | because nobody changed the code yet |
| 17:44:35 | kugel | see http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MrSomeonesTodoList point 3 under core |
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| 17:52:47 | Llorean | linuxstb: Wasn't there discussion of making it an insert or queue button for some time? |
| 17:54:55 | linuxstb | Llorean: I've no idea. That could of course be one of the customisation options... |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:02:43 | Schmogel | i'm following those instructions: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/HowToCompile and i get this warning at step 3: "The compiler you must use (arm-elf-gcc) is not in your path!" i'm trying to compile for the sansa clip+ |
| 18:02:57 | Schmogel | what am i doing wrong? |
| 18:03:28 | Llorean | Is arm-elf-gcc installed and in your path? |
| 18:04:24 | Schmogel | no, i dont know where i can find it |
| 18:04:50 | | Part Linus |
| 18:05:17 | Llorean | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CrossCompiler |
| 18:05:18 | linuxstb | Schmogel: Try one of the two links at the top of that page |
| 18:05:30 | * | Llorean is surprised the CrossCompiler link doesn't seem to be on that page |
| 18:05:41 | Schmogel | thx |
| 18:05:48 | linuxstb | Llorean: It's a wiki ;) |
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| 18:08:37 | * | Llorean adds a bit. |
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| 18:19:41 | Battousai | playback is supposed to work on clip+ now right? |
| 18:26:41 | linuxstb | I believe so. |
| 18:27:35 | CIA-5 | New commit by alex (r25294): Fix c&p error for %pE in the manual. Thanks to Alexander Levin for pointing out. |
| 18:27:42 | Battousai | anybody know which clip+ funman has? |
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| 18:32:40 | Luca_S | Battousai: clip+2gb, according to his forum signature |
| 18:33:00 | Battousai | his sig just says clip+ |
| 18:33:43 | Luca_S | oops. you're right, I was reading a post from FlynDic e |
| 18:33:43 | Battousai | i hope there's not some playback difference between capacities |
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| 18:34:51 | Luca_S | are you experiencing problems with playback? |
| 18:35:01 | Battousai | i'm experiencing silence ;) |
| 18:35:50 | Battousai | clip+4gb, i get no audio output, regardless of codec, bitrate, channels, etc |
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| 18:37:20 | Luca_S | and no panic, just no sound? |
| 18:37:34 | Battousai | right, the files seem to "play" normally, but it's just silent |
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| 18:38:45 | ThomasAH | Battousai: which rockbox svn version? |
| 18:38:53 | domonoky | just remember that clip+ support is very new in rockbox, and also sandisk is know to put new/different hardware in otherwise identical looking and named device. |
| 18:39:02 | domonoky | /know/known |
| 18:39:17 | Battousai | 25262 |
| 18:40:14 | ThomasAH | Battousai: hmm, that one should have sound ... |
| 18:40:24 | ThomasAH | Battousai: and it has on my 8GB clip+,too |
| 18:40:51 | Luca_S | 25264 seems also related to sound, maybe it's worth trying an update to latest svn... |
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| 18:41:48 | ThomasAH | Luca_S: I think that one is just to not break other targets ... at least I had sound before and after that revision |
| 18:42:10 | Battousai | no harm trying ;) |
| 18:42:27 | ThomasAH | Battousai: 25262 is confirmed from the rockbox menu or from "I am sure that I installed it"? :) |
| 18:42:32 | Battousai | ThomasAH: confirmed |
| 18:42:51 | Battousai | just built the latest svn, gonna push it to the device now |
| 18:43:23 | Battousai | after OF database update :( |
| 18:43:38 | Luca_S | :) |
| 18:44:36 | ThomasAH | Battousai: lucky are those people who can access usb-storage via rockbox instead of OF ... my co-worker's c200 for example |
| 18:44:48 | * | ThomasAH waves at swilde :) |
| 18:44:57 | Battousai | i have an e280 that works great with rockbox :) |
| 18:45:03 | | Quit JB2002 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 18:45:53 | * | S_a_i_n_t hugs his 4 RB'd Nanos :) |
| 18:46:15 | * | ThomasAH does not want a proprietary cable, so his choice is limited |
| 18:46:40 | Battousai | ok, 25294 works |
| 18:46:51 | Luca_S | works as in you have sound? |
| 18:47:03 | Battousai | yeah |
| 18:47:06 | Battousai | and button lock :) |
| 18:47:37 | Luca_S | nice. another difference in sansa players would be worrying |
| 18:48:10 | Luca_S | I had an e280v1 too, but someone broke into my car and stole it :/ sansa players are extremely difficult to find here and I could replace it only with a fuzev2 :( |
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| 18:53:47 | ThomasAH | can I use the voice files for Clip on Clip+? Or is there a daily builds page for unusable targets? |
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| 19:02:28 | domonoky | ThomasAH: as the clip+ is a new target, voicefiles from Clip will probably be rejected (the target is in the header of the voicefile). |
| 19:03:07 | domonoky | ThomasAH: but you can generate a voicefile for clip+ with the buildsystem. (I think rbutil doesnt have support for clip+ yet) |
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| 19:08:08 | bluebroth3r | domonoky: what do you think about saving the system trace to the cache folder in all cases? While this is a nice functionality it seems too may people still don't find it and send a trace from an empty run instead |
| 19:08:08 | | Join m3dlg [0] (~m3dlg@212.183.140.51) |
| 19:08:54 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: do you think those people will find the log in the cache folder ? :-) |
| 19:09:56 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: and the one on the mailinglist is strange. it seems to be a log from a full run, but its cutoff at the end. |
| 19:10:51 | bluebroth3r | domonoky: no, but we could save the log at quit, so we can "restore" the previous log from the system trace dialog |
| 19:11:07 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: might be helpfull. |
| 19:11:36 | ThomasAH | domonoky: how do I generate it voice files? "make voicetools" works, but "make voice" does not |
| 19:11:40 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: but wont the log then get longer and longer, never resetting ? |
| 19:11:43 | ThomasAH | make: *** No rule to make target `voice'. Stop. |
| 19:12:12 | domonoky | ThomasAH: you need to tell configure to generate a voice, and then use "make voice" |
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| 19:12:54 | bluebroth3r | domonoky: no, the idea was to only keep one log around, i.e. start a new one on each start and overwrite it when quitting rbutil |
| 19:12:54 | ThomasAH | domonoky: "Build (N)ormal, (A)dvanced, (S)imulator, (B)ootloader, (C)heckWPS, (D)atabase tool, (M)anual: (Defaults to N)" ... is the option only offered if voicetools are installed? |
| 19:13:16 | * | domonoky thinks it might be under advanced |
| 19:13:42 | ThomasAH | domonoky: ah, right ... "Voice build selected" |
| 19:14:22 | pamaury | gevaerts: what would you think of making usb_drv_recv blocking on control endpoint(s) ? This make more sense to me. Or alternatively, (preferably ?) have blocking and nonblocking version of recv ? |
| 19:14:22 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: ah so a system trace would normally contain two traces ? |
| 19:14:48 | bluebroth3r | domonoky: well, kinda. The trace would only contain the current trace, and the last trace would be available on disk. |
| 19:15:58 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: no automatic loading of the old trace ? so just another button in the Tracedialog to also save the last trace ? |
| 19:16:03 | gevaerts | pamaury: I'd go for blocking and nonblocking versions then |
| 19:16:53 | bluebroth3r | domonoky: yes, something like this. Though I'm still wondering what's the best way to present this to the user. Maybe a toggle button "show last trace" - "show session trace" |
| 19:16:56 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:17:54 | pamaury | gevaerts: and do you see the problem I'm talking about (well I talked about a few hours ago) or is it completely fuzzy ? |
| 19:18:03 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: hm, it needs to be very easy to just save those traces. The normal user normally wont be able todo anything with it. We just want them to send us the full logs on errors. |
| 19:19:16 | gevaerts | pamaury: I see the asymmetry. I don't immediately see why that can cause two recv()s at the same time, but for general cleanness it should be fixed |
| 19:19:42 | bluebroth3r | domonoky: yes, the presentation is the thing I'm still thinking about. Or just a "Save previous trace" button next to the "Save trace" one? |
| 19:19:54 | * | domonoky likes that. |
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| 19:20:47 | domonoky | the toogle button might nice too, but additional to the two save buttons. |
| 19:21:14 | bluebroth3r | I'll play around with it a bit. |
| 19:21:46 | pamaury | gevaerts: it's not really about the two recv at the same time because this problem is rather specific to my implementation of queueing (but I think any queueing implementation will suffer from that). The "problem" is also that usb_core assume a blocking usb_drv_recv (look at the code: it does usb_drv_recv on a buffer and then reads from it immediately after) |
| 19:22:33 | pamaury | More generally, any control transfer handling assumes a blocking usb_drv_recv |
| 19:23:35 | gevaerts | hm, I can't find such a place, although it must be there. Do you have a line number? |
| 19:23:55 | pamaury | any usb_drv_recv in usb_core.c |
| 19:24:35 | gevaerts | The ones I see are all to NULL |
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| 19:25:57 | pamaury | ah sorry, the buffer ones are/is in usb_hid. |
| 19:26:28 | pamaury | line 686 of usb_hid.c |
| 19:26:58 | pamaury | The problem of "ack" is different, more driver specific I could say |
| 19:27:36 | gevaerts | hm, isn't that one just wrong? I need to check... |
| 19:28:31 | pamaury | Well, it should work because a control transfer is triggered only when the data is already there but there is a potential timing problem imo. I really don't like this one, I already spot it when developing usb for simulator |
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| 19:29:41 | gevaerts | It's definitely a non-blocking call right now, yes |
| 19:30:12 | pamaury | For this one at least, the recv should be blocking. And ack should be blocking in my opinion because it's easier for drivers to deal with if queueing is implemented :) |
| 19:30:54 | gevaerts | either the ack recv should be blocking or the ack send should be nonblocking. I personally don't care much |
| 19:31:58 | pamaury | why can't both be blocking ? |
| 19:32:42 | gevaerts | Right now the recv is nonblocking and the send is blocking. That's what's wrong |
| 19:33:24 | | Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 19:33:33 | pamaury | semantically you mean ? |
| 19:34:00 | gevaerts | yes. They should be the same |
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| 19:34:51 | pamaury | I agree |
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| 19:35:05 | pamaury | But acks could all be blocking no ? |
| 19:35:43 | gevaerts | I don't mind either way |
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| 19:36:21 | * | pamaury secretly dreams that it could be the cause of some HID problems but that's unlikely |
| 19:37:49 | pamaury | What should be do about names ? I personally prefer usb_drv_{send,recv}_{blocking,non_blocking} because it's more symmetrical but it will break most of the code. On the other end, we can't miss one :) |
| 19:38:36 | | Quit linuxguy3 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 19:38:41 | gevaerts | I think I agree. It will avoid mistakes |
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| 19:41:13 | pamaury | Ok, I'll have a quick try on usb-arc because normally this is a trivial fix, I don't for the other drivers |
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| 19:56:02 | * | pamaury is falling under compile error :/ |
| 19:59:06 | * | S_a_i_n_t finds HW keyclicks on his Nano2Gs quite enjoyable...next step, get the keyclick to sound more like the OF ans stop it from repeating even though keyclick repeats are set to off... |
| 19:59:24 | S_a_i_n_t | Then, I'll have very little to complain about :P |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:05:04 | * | pamaury hates e200 OF, especially when it's refreshing db while I only want to use usb |
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| 20:06:50 | pamaury | hum, apparently, trivial change for usb blocking/nonblocking don't work :( I'll need to use my brain then |
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| 20:12:10 | | Part doomcup ("Leaving") |
| 20:12:32 | bieber | I've been looking into the Theme Editor project for Summer of Code, and I'm wondering if there's any particular parsing libraries or parser generators that would be preferred? |
| 20:12:44 | | Nick hd is now known as jd (~jd@Wikipedia/HellDragon) |
| 20:13:20 | GodEater | bieber: since we have no editor at all at the moment, I don't think it matters |
| 20:13:30 | bieber | Also, would starting to work on the basics of it now help my application out any? |
| 20:13:30 | gevaerts | We currently don't use any, so I suspect there's no preference |
| 20:13:40 | gevaerts | oh, definitely |
| 20:13:46 | GodEater | yes indeed |
| 20:13:50 | gevaerts | No need to keep yaccing on about it though :) |
| 20:13:52 | * | gevaerts hides |
| 20:13:58 | GodEater | www.sadtrombone.com |
| 20:14:09 | bieber | Nice one :) |
| 20:14:25 | GodEater | now stay in your corner gevaerts |
| 20:14:37 | bieber | Has anyone else shown interest in the project? And once I've got something to show, who should I show it to? |
| 20:14:50 | GodEater | I've not seen anyone else ask yet |
| 20:14:57 | GodEater | and here would be a good place to start :) |
| 20:16:25 | | Quit n17ikh (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 20:19:41 | GodEater | bieber: also, please excuse the awful puns. gevaerts is under the illusion they're funny ;) |
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| 20:22:54 | bieber | Eh, bad puns are alright by me |
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| 20:30:59 | * | pamaury suddently wonders is a receive ack makes sense.... |
| 20:32:10 | pamaury | particulary of some data is send after... |
| 20:32:13 | pamaury | *if |
| 20:32:31 | pamaury | gevaerts: what do you think ? |
| 20:32:40 | GodEater | did the tagcache chat get anywhere this morning? |
| 20:32:52 | gevaerts | the data is not sent after. It's *scheduled* after |
| 20:33:04 | pamaury | no, but I think we get closer to the complete rewrite each time |
| 20:33:06 | | Quit bieber (Quit: Leaving) |
| 20:33:09 | gevaerts | The host will send the IN-token first |
| 20:34:05 | pamaury | so the ack has to be nonblocking |
| 20:34:06 | pamaury | ? |
| 20:34:12 | gevaerts | This ordering is to make sure that the transfer is ready as soon as the host wants it, which is apparently needed with some controllers (nano2g, although I'm not entirely convinced) |
| 20:34:16 | gevaerts | oh, right |
| 20:34:18 | gevaerts | indeed |
| 20:34:53 | pamaury | I don't get it, why a recv ack before a send changes ? |
| 20:35:30 | | Quit kaniini (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 20:36:03 | * | pamaury should perhaps refer to usb spec... |
| 20:36:11 | gevaerts | the host sends the IN token as soon as it has received data. Apparently the nano2g controller gets confused if it's not ready for that IN token yet |
| 20:36:32 | gevaerts | so on our side we do the ack first, but on the wire it will be last |
| 20:36:56 | pamaury | ah,... fucking broken controllers |
| 20:37:21 | gevaerts | I'm not convinced actually if it's not just a bug in the driver, i.e. a wring setting somewhere |
| 20:37:45 | pamaury | That seems strange to me |
| 20:38:36 | pamaury | ok, let's break nano2g on my computer for the sake on testing ;) |
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| 20:42:45 | pamaury | ah, working, except storage which I forgot of course |
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| 20:58:37 | amiconn | Zagor: ping |
| 20:58:45 | Zagor | amiconn: yes? |
| 20:59:23 | amiconn | Yesterday I wanted to subscribe to that rbclient list, but there is a problem |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:20 | amiconn | When I replied to the confirmation mail, I got an ndr |
| 21:00:36 | Zagor | ndr? |
| 21:00:45 | amiconn | rockbox-rbclient-request AT cool.haxx.se doesn't exist |
| 21:00:56 | Zagor | oh |
| 21:01:00 | amiconn | non delivery report |
| 21:05:32 | Zagor | amiconn: fixed now |
| 21:05:48 | amiconn | Can I just reply again? |
| 21:05:56 | Zagor | yes |
| 21:07:23 | | Join Amorstus [0] (~chatzilla@c-98-228-219-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:09:07 | Amorstus | Could someone help me with installing both rockbox and the stock firmware? |
| 21:09:50 | amiconn | Zagor: Thanks, this time it worked :) |
| 21:10:30 | | Join xiainx [0] (xiainx@wpa062081.Wireless.McGill.CA) |
| 21:10:45 | gevaerts | Amorstus: it might help if you said which device you have |
| 21:11:07 | Amorstus | I have an ipod video 5G (not 5.5G, I have checked) |
| 21:12:41 | gevaerts | What sort of problems are you having? |
| 21:12:48 | | Join m3dlg [0] (~m3dlg@212.183.140.36) |
| 21:13:51 | Amorstus | Well, I want to get the iPL installed and then use rockbox and the stock os with it |
| 21:14:20 | Amorstus | But terminal continues to not want to install the loader |
| 21:14:37 | Amorstus | I can get rockbox by itself to install fine |
| 21:14:52 | Amorstus | however, I cannot seem to get both |
| 21:15:19 | Torne | youu don't need ipl to use rockbox and the original firmware |
| 21:15:30 | | Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) |
| 21:15:31 | | Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 21:15:33 | Torne | our bootloader dual boots fine on its ow |
| 21:15:37 | | Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) |
| 21:15:38 | Torne | own. |
| 21:15:39 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 21:15:50 | | Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 21:16:03 | Amorstus | ok, then how would I use this? |
| 21:16:06 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 21:16:26 | Torne | the normal install already dual boots |
| 21:16:53 | Amorstus | Use the "prev" button for apple os? |
| 21:16:58 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:17:00 | Torne | hold menu instead of select to power on, or power on then turn on the hold switch, and it will boot the original firmware |
| 21:17:08 | Torne | this is in the manual. |
| 21:17:09 | Amorstus | Oh |
| 21:17:12 | Amorstus | ok |
| 21:17:18 | Amorstus | Must be blind then |
| 21:17:34 | Amorstus | thanks :D |
| 21:20:16 | | Join fml [0] (~53ecea55@giant.haxx.se) |
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| 21:24:01 | fml | AlexP: hello. Have you seen FS #11135 ? BTW: I find the wording in the description of %pE a bit weird in the sense that the tag _becomes_ true (if we go along the time axis). And while you're at the manual: could you please try the proposed fix for FS #11117 ? |
| 21:28:00 | | Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 21:28:00 | | Quit bmbl (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 21:29:10 | fml | mc2739: Hello. FS #11117 has a proposal for fixing which I can't try out right now. Could you? |
| 21:29:30 | | Quit Zagor (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 21:32:11 | | Quit m3dlg (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:36:59 | AlexP | fml: OK I'll change it, no I didn't I'll close it, and not right now I don't have the time |
| 21:37:53 | AlexP | Short and sweet :) |
| 21:39:11 | fml | AlexP: what is short and sweet? No problem, we're not in hurry. |
| 21:39:25 | AlexP | my answer |
| 21:41:06 | fml | Yes, condensed and compact! |
| 21:41:16 | CIA-5 | New commit by alex (r25295): Improve %pE description. |
| 21:42:27 | | Quit Amorstus (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:43:02 | AlexP | bollocks |
| 21:43:07 | AlexP | that description is crap too |
| 21:43:11 | AlexP | Teach me to rush |
| 21:43:15 | | Join Adubbb [0] (~aldubuc@67.201.160.144) |
| 21:43:53 | AlexP | no, actually it is fine |
| 21:44:14 | AlexP | I was reading r25294 not r25295 :) |
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| 21:55:21 | | Nick fidencio is now known as fidencio[AWAY] (~fidencio@li113-135.members.linode.com) |
| 21:58:09 | wodz | what exactly HAVE_POWEROFF_WHILE_CHARGING option do? Does it simply block poweroff event? |
| 21:59:29 | GodEater | wodz: it means the device can be powered off while the battery is charging |
| 21:59:34 | GodEater | some devices do not allow that |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:41 | | Quit grndslm (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:02:22 | wodz | GodEater: ok but how does it work from the codeflow point of view. Does it simply change keys interpretation? |
| 22:03:09 | | Quit fml (Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)) |
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| 22:10:40 | * | Bagder adds committer #89 |
| 22:10:49 | gevaerts | \☺/ |
| 22:10:49 | Bagder | ranmachan: welcome! |
| 22:11:15 | | Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 22:11:23 | * | domonoky welcomes ranmachan in the rockbox crew ! |
| 22:11:43 | AlexP | Hi :) |
| 22:14:09 | kugel | awesome \☺/ |
| 22:14:34 | | Quit fyrestorm (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 22:20:47 | mt | ranmachan: congrats and welcome ! :) |
| 22:22:39 | | Quit topik (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 22:27:52 | | Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 22:28:18 | bluebroth3r | domonoky: any comments? http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rbutil-save-previous-trace.diff |
| 22:29:01 | | Join blairb [0] (~blair@121-73-216-35.broadband.telstraclear.net) |
| 22:30:14 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: looks fine. |
| 22:31:49 | * | bluebroth3r starts to get pissed by this guy at the forums |
| 22:32:22 | | Join saratoga [0] (~9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/x-vyitymjtbtkghrww) |
| 22:32:44 | saratoga | what do people think about making make zip automatically include a diff if the build is from a modified svn checkout? |
| 22:32:56 | bluebroth3r | saratoga: thanks for locking that thread in the forums. I'm just getting pissed by this guy :( |
| 22:33:00 | saratoga | would make it a lot simpler for third party builders to comply with the GPL |
| 22:33:10 | Torne | saratoga: er, no it doesn't |
| 22:33:22 | saratoga | yes i couldn't understand what he was talking about and it seemed to either to lock it then to parse whatever was going on there |
| 22:33:37 | Torne | i'm not saying it's not a reasonable idea, but it's not relevant to gpl compliance |
| 22:33:43 | bluebroth3r | saratoga: hmm, but that would also mean that we should handle all vcs systems version.sh supports |
| 22:33:52 | Torne | a diff si not sufficient |
| 22:34:01 | saratoga | Torne: can you elaborate |
| 22:34:28 | Torne | saratoga: a diff against someon e else's source does not satisfy the requirement to convey source in the GPL |
| 22:34:43 | Torne | you have to provide the *entire* source used to build the binaries (on request, at least) |
| 22:34:49 | saratoga | provided they used our svn checkout, it does |
| 22:34:54 | Torne | no, it doesn 't. |
| 22:34:57 | Torne | Seriously. |
| 22:34:57 | saratoga | since it tells you where to get the code to diff against |
| 22:35:04 | Torne | No. That is not how the GPL works. |
| 22:35:12 | saratoga | elaborate |
| 22:35:34 | bluebroth3r | the guy providing the changed build needs to provide the full sources, not someone else (ie. the original project) |
| 22:35:36 | Torne | You must either provide the *full source used to build your bianries*, or provide a written offer to do so valid for some very long time |
| 22:35:52 | | Join DerPapst [0] (~DerPapst@p5797C3BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:35:58 | saratoga | i don't recall a provision in there saying you had to host it yourself |
| 22:36:28 | Torne | You don't have to *host* it, b ut you have to be able to provide the code on request for a very long time |
| 22:36:38 | Torne | unless you accompany it with the code to start with. |
| 22:36:46 | Torne | Seriously, this is a known thing |
| 22:36:52 | Torne | i am not just misunderstanding here :) |
| 22:37:00 | Torne | thi shas been discussed in here before multiple times |
| 22:37:15 | saratoga | if you are not required to host it, why is linking to svn.rockbox.org a problem? |
| 22:37:32 | Torne | because what's on svn.rockbox.org is not the code used to build the binary |
| 22:37:46 | saratoga | combined with the patch it is |
| 22:37:52 | Torne | Yes, that is irrelevant |
| 22:38:01 | Torne | and even if it were unmodified, svn.rockbox.org is not guaranteed to always exist for the lifetime of the binary |
| 22:38:07 | saratoga | can you cite the part of the GPL saying so? |
| 22:38:15 | Torne | The requirements are much mroe strict than most people think |
| 22:38:59 | Torne | section 3, gives you three options for providing source |
| 22:39:33 | Torne | a) requires that you provide the complete corresponding source with the bianry |
| 22:39:52 | Torne | linking to someone else's server is not sufficient because it might not be available while the bianry still is. |
| 22:40:08 | Torne | b) requires that you provide an offer to give the source on request which you hav to honour for three years, which is also a huge pain :) |
| 22:40:18 | Torne | and c) is only allowed if you did not modify the code |
| 22:40:27 | saratoga | its impossible to garentee anything for a period of 3 years |
| 22:40:39 | Torne | Yes, which is why almost everyone does option a) |
| 22:40:44 | saratoga | you simply claim in good faith that you will try |
| 22:40:47 | Torne | But you have to either include the source *with* the binary |
| 22:40:58 | Torne | or have it prominently available right next to the binary, and available at the same time |
| 22:41:00 | saratoga | heh so by this logic rockbox's download links violate the GPL |
| 22:41:05 | Torne | whch you cannot guarantee if you are relying on third party hosting. |
| 22:41:07 | saratoga | since we don't know that svn.rockbox.org will exist for 3 years |
| 22:41:16 | Torne | No, three years is only relevant for b) |
| 22:41:18 | Torne | we are using a) |
| 22:41:27 | saratoga | we do not |
| 22:41:27 | gevaerts | saratoga: the same page has a link to the source, on the same server. That's (a) |
| 22:41:38 | Torne | If the source is always available right there at the time of the download and the user chooses not to use it that's their fault and this is allowed. |
| 22:41:39 | bluebroth3r | aren't we c) for the binaries? |
| 22:41:49 | gevaerts | bluebroth3r: no, because we're upstream |
| 22:41:51 | Torne | bluebroth3r: no, it's our own code, we can't be redistributing it ;) |
| 22:41:51 | saratoga | yeah we don't package the source with the binary |
| 22:42:01 | bluebroth3r | true :) |
| 22:42:04 | Torne | saratoga: you don't have to, it's okay for it to be available at the same time by the same process |
| 22:42:10 | Torne | i.e. a download from the same site |
| 22:42:14 | Torne | with the link right there. |
| 22:42:38 | bluebroth3r | if every binary would need to include all source ... well, I don't want to think about the size of my linux installaiton then |
| 22:43:16 | Torne | bluebroth3r: inded, but it means that, for example, a debian mirror *must* also mirror the source debs if they mirror the bianry debs. |
| 22:43:39 | saratoga | so its ok as long as svn.rockbox.org is the same physical machine? |
| 22:43:39 | | Join planetbeing_ [0] (~planetbei@166.132.156.109) |
| 22:43:44 | saratoga | what happens if we get two PCs |
| 22:43:46 | bluebroth3r | Even for mirrors? |
| 22:43:49 | Torne | saratoga: it doesn't have to be the same amchine.. |
| 22:43:59 | Torne | saratoga: we are one entity, from copyright pov, more or less :) |
| 22:44:18 | Torne | It is reasonable to expect that if our binary download server still exists, so does our svn repo |
| 22:44:22 | saratoga | we are Ahead ? because last I checked they have the copyrights on the aac decoder we distribute |
| 22:44:57 | saratoga | and what about VLC, i don't believe they host our source code at all, but they do have our binraries |
| 22:45:03 | saratoga | are they violating our licenses? |
| 22:45:09 | Torne | saratoga: distribution is about who is doing the distribution, not who has the individual copyrights |
| 22:45:14 | saratoga | are they violating ahead's licenses? |
| 22:45:19 | gevaerts | saratoga: do they host anything but stable builds? |
| 22:45:35 | Torne | "the rockbox project" is the entity doing the distribution of our official binaries |
| 22:45:48 | saratoga | i know at one point we had daily builds at least on the VLC machines |
| 22:46:07 | saratoga | haven't checked recently |
| 22:46:37 | saratoga | so when VLC distributes libfaad and links to rockbox.org thats fine, but if someone else distributes libfaad and links to rockbox.org thats not ok? |
| 22:47:02 | Torne | saratoga: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#DistributingSourceIsInconvenient |
| 22:47:16 | Torne | saratoga: this covers exactly what we're talking about here :) |
| 22:47:28 | domonoky | saratoga: does VLC distribute modified binarys ? |
| 22:47:28 | | Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) |
| 22:47:29 | saratoga | that clearly doesn't apply to SVN though |
| 22:47:35 | saratoga | since it has version control |
| 22:47:38 | Torne | sure it does |
| 22:47:43 | saratoga | and anyway, the gnu faqs are not definitive |
| 22:47:45 | Torne | who's to say our svn server will exist in five years? |
| 22:47:47 | saratoga | they've often quite stupid |
| 22:48:03 | saratoga | if we think that then we're violating the GPL! |
| 22:48:04 | Torne | maybe we've all gotten sick of getti gn no help from manufacturers and pulled the plug |
| 22:48:22 | Torne | as soon as we stop distributin g bianries we are also allowed to kill our svn server ;) |
| 22:48:31 | Torne | but anyone whose modified build is still up somewhere must still make source avaialble |
| 22:48:41 | saratoga | and they can do that |
| 22:48:50 | saratoga | but that doesn't mean they're violating the GPL before we pull the SVN server |
| 22:48:56 | Torne | Yes, it does. |
| 22:48:59 | Torne | Sorry. |
| 22:49:00 | saratoga | no |
| 22:49:13 | Torne | that would be a stupid license :) |
| 22:49:16 | gevaerts | *If* they include the three-year written offer, they're fine |
| 22:49:21 | Torne | Yah |
| 22:49:29 | saratoga | i mean if I know we're taking down svn.rockbox.org at the end of the month i have until the end of the month to pull my binary or upload the source |
| 22:49:29 | domonoky | yes, no, yes :-) probably only a curt can decide this ? :-) |
| 22:49:31 | Torne | If they take 3b) isntead they don't have to provide *anything* up front, other than that offer |
| 22:49:39 | domonoky | s/curt/court/ |
| 22:49:53 | saratoga | who needs a court, we have the GNU FAQs! |
| 22:50:04 | Torne | but then they would need to hang on to all the details of what their build included for three years after the last person downloaded it |
| 22:50:06 | saratoga | they make up for the GPL not saying all sorts of things they want it to say |
| 22:50:20 | Torne | I think 3a) is pretty clear, tb h |
| 22:50:28 | gevaerts | saratoga: uhm, no. If you distribute the binary but not the source, you *have* to go for (b) |
| 22:51:08 | saratoga | i don't think i disputed that? |
| 22:51:33 | gevaerts | "i have until the end of the month to pull my binary or upload the source" |
| 22:51:46 | saratoga | and? |
| 22:51:50 | gevaerts | That implies that you're not distributing the source |
| 22:52:07 | saratoga | yes, because I'm linking to rockbox.org |
| 22:52:20 | gevaerts | linking to rockbox.org is *not* distributing |
| 22:52:24 | saratoga | i mean i give people rockbox bootloaders all the time on my own hosting, and tell them the source is in svn.rockbox.org |
| 22:52:27 | Torne | if what *someone else* does means you could suddenly be violating the license without knowing about it, then, er, that would be stupid :) |
| 22:52:37 | | Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 22:52:54 | saratoga | the GPLv2 is kind of stupid about a lot of things |
| 22:53:33 | Torne | It's not stupid about this :) |
| 22:53:33 | saratoga | look all i'm saying is that we regularly put up builds on other hosting (and sometimes even on the wiki) and then say the source is in svn.rockbox.org |
| 22:54:06 | saratoga | and i do this without perfect knowledge of the future state of the rockbox project |
| 22:54:20 | saratoga | i would even argue that none of us is perfectly aware of future events for the next 3 years |
| 22:54:34 | Torne | (3 years has nthing to do with this) |
| 22:54:40 | Torne | (we do not use section 3b) :) |
| 22:54:56 | Torne | 3a is for as long as you distribute the binaries. |
| 22:54:57 | | Quit Zarggg (Quit: Zarggg) |
| 22:55:06 | saratoga | we do 3b a lot |
| 22:55:09 | saratoga | go look at the wiki |
| 22:55:17 | Torne | No, we don't |
| 22:55:30 | saratoga | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=23678.0 |
| 22:55:33 | Torne | Where does it say, anywhere ont eh wiki, "You may ask $FOO for the soruce for this build for 3 years fromt he current date" |
| 22:55:34 | saratoga | 3b unless I am mistaken |
| 22:55:56 | domonoky | saratoga: the wiki also belongs to rockbox. |
| 22:55:56 | Torne | Yes, you are mistaken |
| 22:56:01 | Torne | there is no written offer to provide source there |
| 22:56:13 | Torne | you don't even mention source :) |
| 22:56:15 | saratoga | ok i'll fix it |
| 22:56:33 | Torne | I wouldn't, because you don't *want* to be distributing under 3b |
| 22:56:38 | saratoga | its arguably more stupid |
| 22:56:41 | saratoga | but its not 3b |
| 22:56:50 | saratoga | now 3b |
| 22:57:06 | saratoga | were i guess before it was vague because i didn't say how someone could find the source |
| 22:57:10 | | Quit jgarvey (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:57:12 | domonoky | saratoga: we provide the sourcecode for those builds, its in svn, which belongs to the same entity. |
| 22:57:24 | saratoga | duke.edu belongs to rockbox.org? |
| 22:57:38 | Torne | yes, you should really say "the source is r12345 from svn" or similar ;) |
| 22:57:47 | saratoga | the binary has that information in it when you boot it |
| 22:58:01 | Torne | That also doesn't help |
| 22:58:08 | Torne | the user needs to know when they download it |
| 22:58:13 | Torne | so that if they want the souce, they can download that too |
| 22:58:14 | saratoga | honestly putting svn.rockbox.org next to every download link is stupid |
| 22:58:17 | saratoga | we have it on the front page |
| 22:59:24 | saratoga | i'm still not even convinced what i'm doing is allowed under this retarded reading of stuff thats not in the GPL |
| 22:59:37 | saratoga | i mean what if rockbox.org goes down and I die in a car accident |
| 22:59:40 | * | domonoky thinks that in this case the hosting on duke.edu is done for rockbox, like a service (normally payed, but free this time) so it belongs to rockbox, like rented webspace :-) |
| 22:59:52 | Torne | anyway. my point was simply that if you implement such a feature in make zip, you *should not* state anywhere that this is sufficient for someone's modified build's GPL obligations |
| 22:59:56 | Torne | b ecause it is not. |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:04 | saratoga | i don't agree with that |
| 23:00:16 | Torne | we have, numerous times in the past, told people providing modified builds that it is not :) |
| 23:00:19 | | Quit evilnick_B (Quit: Page closed) |
| 23:00:21 | saratoga | and you have not made a reasonable argument to the contrary |
| 23:00:32 | saratoga | whoever said that was wrong |
| 23:00:45 | Torne | well, i can't say anything else on this tbh. ask the sounding board. |
| 23:02:21 | domonoky | anyone hosting binarys not on rockbox.org should provide source. Cases where the main link to this binarys is only on rockbox.org are debateable :-) |
| 23:02:36 | * | gevaerts agrees with domonoky |
| 23:03:08 | gevaerts | Well, if "provide source" means "either have the source next to the binary or provide a written offer" :) |
| 23:04:04 | domonoky | :-) |
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| 23:08:26 | | Join yelped [0] (~62741d31@giant.haxx.se) |
| 23:08:55 | yelped | somrthing weird going on. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=24264.0 |
| 23:09:05 | * | bluebroth3r wonders how him providing svn binaries of rbutil looks in that light. |
| 23:09:36 | bluebroth3r | so ideally I should also provide sources. Though the binaries are from unmodified svn. |
| 23:09:45 | gevaerts | yelped: I think that's what's JdGordon's been chasing for a few days now |
| 23:10:17 | | Join m3dlg [0] (~m3dlg@bb-87-81-252-83.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 23:10:36 | yelped | Oh, I had updated today from a build a week ago. |
| 23:10:57 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 23:12:12 | yelped | in the forums? |
| 23:12:15 | saratoga | what if i make a written offer, and when some one requests, i email them svn.rockbox.org |
| 23:13:45 | | Part Chrolo |
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| 23:17:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:29:10 | saratoga | heh LOTs of places on the forums where people are just linking patches rather then complete source code archives |
| 23:29:43 | saratoga | was it actually our policy that this isn't allowed? |
| 23:29:55 | saratoga | i never even heard of it, and we certainly didn't enforce it on the forums |
| 23:30:11 | saratoga | and apparently almost no one was aware of it |
| 23:30:38 | saratoga | heh i even see people just giving FS numbers without even hosting their changes |
| 23:31:52 | bieber | Quick question on parsing WPS files: how is whitespace supposed to be treated in commands (or should I call them tags?) with multiple parts? i.e. if you had a named identifier, what would happen if you did something like %Vi| a |...| ? |
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| 23:32:52 | bieber | Err, named viewport |
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| 23:41:30 | saratoga | heh i'm a little concerned that the guy who told funman the current mkamsboot code worked fine on the clipv2 proceeded to ask in the forums if someone could explain to him how to use mkamsboot the next day |
| 23:41:30 | | Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:41:48 | saratoga | going to go out on a limb and suggest that he may not actually have tested it |
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| 23:53:07 | angelwolf71885 | hello rockbox :) |
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