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#rockbox log for 2010-03-28

00:09:02 Quit Adubb (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:12:36 Join Adubb [0] (~aldubuc@
00:23:01superDAUcan somebody else tell me how to format from the original firmware?
00:24:17LloreansuperDAU: It's just an option somewhere.
00:25:47saratoga_labis lua supposed to be disabled on the sansa clip?
00:25:58saratoga_labit looks like a bug to me given the comment but i'm not sure
00:27:13saratoga_labif it is we should remove the lua plugins from the build
00:27:23saratoga_labor else fix the define so that it compiles
00:32:55 Join usnmustanger [0] (
00:33:20domonokyit disabled because the plugin-buf is so small on clip.
00:34:40 Join Darkknight512 [0] (
00:35:14saratoga_labyeah but the comment says it needs 128KB of RAM while the plugin buffer is abotu 400KB
00:35:28saratoga_labso either the comment or the define is wrong, just wondering which
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00:40:18*domonoky sees completly different numbers, but the comment in SUBDIRS is still wrong.
00:40:26 Quit BHSPitMini (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:42:05domonokyplugin buf on clip is ~280k, comment in SUBDIRS says lua needs > 160k and checks for >= 512k
00:44:11domonokymaybe the author didnt know we have now at least 3 different plugin buffer sizes, very small on old archos, medium on newer 2M targets and big on big-mem targets ?
00:48:07MinatakuWell, a lower limit is a lower limit
00:48:46MinatakuYou can try to crush the code size down farther, but aside from installing more RAM, which isn't possible on a lot of these MCUs/SoCs, you're stuck
00:49:58MinatakuFact is, if it's a target with a small amount of work RAM, you're going to be a little limited.
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01:16:19saratoga_labMinataku: its probably not necessary that you explain to us what memory means ;)
01:16:30saratoga_labmost of us have done a little bit of programming before
01:17:32Minatakusaratoga_lab: I'm new here, I don't know the developers from the morons off the street yet
01:18:34LloreanNo offense, but your comment wasn't particularly relevant to the question anyway
01:19:02MinatakuI had also just gotten back to my computer
01:19:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:53:46CIA-5New commit by funman (r25360): Fuzev2: fix lcd
03:56:48CIA-5New commit by funman (r25361): Fuzev2: simulator
03:57:24RadicalRWow, funman is busy tonight.
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04:19:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:28:11flyback <−− awesome remix of a old andy "necros" sega, mod music track
04:28:49Lloreanflyback: Please remember that this channel is for discussion of the Rockbox software/project.
04:29:57 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Bed.)
04:30:21flybackbut rockbox does play .mod and .mp3
04:30:50LloreanYes, but suggesting music is still off-topic for this channel.
04:30:57LloreanIt's for support and development.
04:30:59flybackok :D
04:31:09flybackyou wouldn't know anything about c100 series would you?
04:31:48LloreanPretty much everything should be on the wiki, I imagine.
04:31:52LloreanOr possibly in the relevant forum thread.
04:32:05flybacknot there :)
04:35:20CIA-5New commit by funman (r25362): Add fuzev2 boot+build to the buildsystem. Not the simulator since it's identical to fuze(v1) simulator)
04:37:04CIA-5New commit by funman (r25363): Add fuzev2 to unusable section
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04:41:07 Quit komputes (Remote host closed the connection)
04:41:31CIA-5New commit by funman (r25364): Fuzev2: add dithering option for mpegplayer
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04:45:11CIA-5New commit by funman (r25365): mkamsboot: add fuzev2 OF 2.02.31
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04:58:02CIA-5New commit by funman (r25366): Fix Fuzev2 OF version
04:59:09saratoga_labwell so now we have a fuzev2 port
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05:03:02RadicalRsweet. Can't wait for the post.
05:05:35 Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
05:07:31RadicalRWell, that was fast. (Checked the forums.) I'm flashing my fuzev2 right now.
05:07:45RadicalRFirst backing the music off of it though.
05:09:37 Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman)
05:09:42RadicalRHello funman.
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05:09:54RadicalRI saw your post on the forum.
05:10:02RadicalRI'm flashing the fuze in a few minutes.
05:10:20funmanmusic shouldn't disappear but backups never harm
05:10:34RadicalRExactly what I'm doing.
05:10:46RadicalRBackup should be done in about 10 minutes.
05:11:09S_a_i_n_tEerrrgh...sounds kinda slow.
05:11:18RadicalRIt's an 8 gig model.
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05:11:43RadicalRWho knows. Might finish faster.
05:11:49S_a_i_n_tOh, no, sorry that's abot right.
05:12:29RadicalRI already got the files on the player, so once I disconnect, it should be all set to go.
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05:32:11CIA-5New commit by funman (r25367): Fuzev2: edit config ...
05:32:57RadicalRI just flashed it.
05:33:01RadicalRBlack screen
05:33:14funmanhm same here
05:33:19funmanit worked moments ago
05:33:31RadicalROF is fine though :)
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06:10:38CIA-5New commit by funman (r25368): Fuzev2: fix LCD
06:10:41CIA-5New commit by funman (r25369): as3525v2: silence bootloader
06:11:04RadicalRLooks like it's fixed now.
06:12:56RadicalRI'll wait a few minutes for it to be compiled
06:13:00RadicalRand then I'll give it another go.
06:13:15funmanno need to update bootloader if you still have it
06:16:35funmani updated my post & the patched OF on my server
06:17:06RadicalRIt's alive!
06:17:20RadicalRScreen is really dim, like you said.
06:17:27RadicalRbut it works!
06:17:38funmanok, 1 more "first type" screen
06:18:00funmanperhaps they were testing another screen and just left their debug code
06:19:14RadicalRBut thank you funman.
06:19:22RadicalRIt's nice to see rockbox on my fuze :)
06:19:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:33:28CIA-5New commit by funman (r25370): Fuzev2: cleanup backlight code (still not working correctly)
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07:55:41 Join Gartral [0] (~Gareth@unaffiliated/gartral)
07:57:25Gartralalright, i know the mr500 is supported now, but what about it's sighted brother: the m:robe 500i? will rockbox work on that (with or without the camera.. i have a real camera for pictures)
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08:05:50CIA-5New commit by funman (r25371): Fuzev2: it seems we need to set bit 3 when selecting PMU subregister ...
08:13:41funmanI tried removing clock disabling in ascodec-as3525.c to be sure the subregister is 'remembered' but no luck
08:14:46Gartralalright, i know the mr500 is supported now, but what about it's sighted brother: the m:robe 500i? will rockbox work on that?
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08:15:49funmanGartral: your message went through the first time. If someone knows the answer they will tell you
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08:16:36Gartralfunman: i have join/part messages surpressed, so i was rebroadcasting in hopes that there were new people in chanel
08:19:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:49:45Byteis anyone here?
08:50:37saratoga_labtheres like a hundred people here
08:50:41mitkByte: Just say your story :)
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10:19:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:12:17Kaervekhi everyone, i have a 6th generation iPod, which is not supported by rockbox, and i wondered if that was only a matter of time, of if something special with that version made it impossible for rockbox to run on it?
11:12:57Kaervek(i also have a 1st gen iPod mini running rockbox and it works great!)
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12:19:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:19:53AlexPKaervek: The linux4nano chaps found an exploit, but nothing more has been done. Now someone who wants it enough needs to put in the massive amount of work needed.
12:23:37JdGordonthe question of theme user settings popped up again in the forums (someway to allow the wps/sbs to be user configurable without adding bloat to the core)... shows sort of how I think this could be done
12:24:18JdGordonthe idea would be that we try to force themers to work together to create a list of common settings so a single .scfg would work on many themes (which implement those settings of course)
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12:26:47gevaertsJdGordon: that could be a nice idea in general, but if you're referring to the date format thread, I think that maybe that should have a specific solution
12:27:05 Quit stripwax (Quit:
12:27:41JdGordonI am, but no I tihnk this sort of thing would go well there. unless a single new tag is added to display it in the full format then the themer still has to respect the setting
12:27:47JdGordonand do all the different combos could actually be very doable to allow wps snippets inside these config things!
12:28:30gevaertsport cpp!
12:28:43JdGordon%z|time|code <- setup
12:28:50JdGordon%z|time| <- usage
12:29:02JdGordontime: %cH:%cM <- in the config
12:29:14JdGordonthats should actually be pretty simple!
12:30:31gevaertsthat would work, except for the obviou namespace issue. If these are in the general config file I think it should be "skin time" or something like that there
12:30:54 Quit Barahir (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
12:31:03JdGordonno, not the general config. I seperate one which themers define the settings
12:31:04gevaertsYou don't want people to suddenly set the volume to %pv )
12:31:12gevaertsok, that's fine then
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12:31:38*gevaerts likes the idea
12:32:13JdGordonwith a bit of help from the them site, getting a listing of the "defined" settings woiuld be useful
12:32:19*scorche points people towards
12:32:47scorchehave any ideas for items up for discussion at DevCon?....list them there
12:33:08JdGordonthe NoDo "list"
12:33:40scorcheyeah, i knew that would be put on there...go ahead and edit the page ;)
12:33:54*gevaerts is on it :)
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12:40:53topikgevaerts is on the NoDo list? that seems harsh
12:41:17gevaertsI disagree! I don't want to be a rockbox feature!
12:41:36AlexPtoo late :)
12:42:02gevaertsAlexP: I'm on the NoDo list, so I'm fine :)
12:42:46*domonoky wants gevaerts.rock :-)
12:43:02AlexPdomonoky: see ZZ Top
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12:45:12topikif that happens, someone will campaign to change 'rock' to 'rocks'
12:46:03kunalJdGordon, hello
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12:48:41kunali want to take up the project Clean up the radio code..
12:49:09kunali am new to rockbox, but i have read and tried to understand the radio code
12:49:30AlexPThat's a good start :)
12:50:26kunali read somewhere that the module is not generic for all types of players...
12:50:48kunaland the task here is to make it generic and clean the code..
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12:56:27JdGordonsomething like that
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13:19:52*JdGordon directs everyones attention to the wall of text in the dev-ml
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13:43:42JdGordonanyone up for testing a quick patch in a few min?
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13:47:24archivatorI've been toying with flite the past few days and... well, porting it would be difficult by itself. Making it fixed point adds an entire dimension on the problem..
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14:01:05*JdGordon wants a new skin parser
14:05:51 Quit Lss__ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
14:05:52*pamaury gives JdGordon a new skin parser
14:06:48JdGordonI want to be able to have tokens call the parser again but put the new tokens in a seperate array which I cant do at the memonet (i.e for the playlist viewer)
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14:08:54*pamaury doesn't know the internals of the skin parser
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14:19:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:29:03JdGordoncan we do august instead?
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15:59:50kugelis the devcon date fixed already?
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16:00:55JdGordonkugel: pretty much... looking at the charts it was the obvious pick
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16:10:18lxsysshold my iriver H10 get really really hot when it's charging from empty?
16:12:13archivatorlxsys: is that only with rockbox or in general?
16:12:49AlexPkugel: Yes, people are buying flights etc.
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16:12:58lxsysarchivator: in general, it wasn't in rockbox when it was charging.
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16:13:56fragilematterlxsys: moderately, mine doesn't get unbearably hot
16:14:15fragilematterhello peeps
16:14:21lxsysfragilematter: ok, thanks.
16:14:56fragilematterlxsys: you're welcome
16:15:05soappixelma, Yea, the fact you're at the end of a playlist is so abstracted that I think it is non-intuitive (not to mention a significant battery waste). I don't understand why when, during buffering, Rockbox sees it has space on the buffer it doesn't go ahead and determine the next folder to load in either of the folder advance (or repeat) modes.
16:16:03JdGordonbecause playlist.c is stupid :)
16:16:11JdGordonit *should* do that
16:16:12fragilematterlxsys: are you using a recent rockbox build?
16:16:13JdGordonno question
16:16:17soapFor the user who doesn't explicitly look at the created dynamic playlist the behavior is non-intuitive. I'd be like "Rockbox knows what track comes next, why isn't it showing it?"
16:16:57GArikIs it possible to port rockbox to iriver t-10 as a gsoc project?
16:17:09JdGordonsoap: there is also a technical reason which is boring, and a possible work around which isnt nice
16:17:18JdGordonGArik: we generally dont like ports as gsoc projects
16:17:22JdGordontoo many unknowns
16:17:29linuxstbGArik: You could certainly propose it. But we would want to be sure it would succeed.
16:17:34soapI didn't know there was a technical reason. Is there somewhere I can read up on that?
16:17:45lxsysfragilemattter: it was in the "usb mode" from the original firmware at the time
16:18:10GArikthere seems a lot of documentation about t-10
16:18:15fragilematterlxsys: I'm asking because I am trying to investigate a problem I am having with my h10
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16:18:28GArikand i have one device
16:18:31linuxstbGArik: What CPU is it?
16:18:37fragilematterI get noise on start-up, and it appears that the fm chip is the source
16:18:40JdGordonsoap: I doubt it. its got to do with how playlists are stored, maybe thats something for the devcon code session?
16:18:50GAriksome arm cpu by samsung
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16:19:10lxsysfragilematter: i'll have a listen on mine.
16:19:23fragilematterlxsys: thanks
16:19:41LloreanGArik: Is it already known how to load custom firmware onto it?
16:19:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:19:53LloreanAnd, the steps necessary to disassemble their firmware?
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16:20:38GArikyes, there is some articles on
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16:22:21linuxstbGArik: Do you have any experience with this sort of work?
16:24:19GAriki have experience in programming on C and asm, but no experience in programming for such devices
16:24:31lxsysfragilematter: no, sorry nothing on startup, apart from the clicking of the amplifier powering up. i did hear some strange digital noises, coming though weak on the radio across all channels, but i'm not sure of it's importance.
16:25:06fragilematterlxsys: thanks, on mine it behaves quite differently
16:25:33linuxstbGArik: I think for us to be confident of you succeeding, you would need to start work on the project before SoC - i.e. now. As others have said, we're nervous of new ports for SoC.
16:25:56fragilematterI start it up and I can heal white noise equivalent to -65db or so, that continues even if I play back something
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16:26:38linuxstbGArik: And even then, we couldn't guarantee you would be selected - it depends on the other project proposals and students, and how many student slots Google gives us.
16:27:01fragilematterlxsys: and it stops if I start the radio and then return to playback
16:27:38lxsysfragilematter: hmmm... thats really strange. you can hear radio, right?
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16:28:21fragilematterlxsys: radio works properly, however, it looks like it isn't muted/disabled after power-up
16:28:53lxsysfragilematter: exactly what i was thinking. you got a 5/6 or a 20gb??
16:29:09selectohhdoes anyone know, for a plugin, the apps/plugins/CATEGORIES file compiles to? i'd like to compile a plugin without having to copy the whole rockbox build to a player (if i just copy the rock file, it says "incompatible version", i'm assuming because of the lack of ../plugins/CATEGORIES?
16:29:22fragilematterlxsys: a 6gb, but the fm chip is handled the same afaik
16:30:25linuxstbselectohh: IIUC, CATEGORIES just tells the "" script where to put the .rock files. Your problem is something else.
16:30:42Lloreanselectohh: "incompatible version" means the plugin wasn't compiled against the same version of Rockbox as is on your player.
16:31:00LloreanYou're going to need to update the whole build on your player at least once to whatever version you're compiling
16:31:06lxsysfragilematter: the original firmware works ok?
16:31:14LloreanThen, assuming you don't SVN update and only change the plugin, you should be able to just copy the .rock
16:31:32selectohhlinuxstb + llorean: oh. thanks. the one i'm compiling on is an older version than the one on the player, i figured it would work "backwards"
16:32:16LloreanI'm pretty sure backward is the one direction it will never work.
16:32:56selectohhllorean okily dokily thanks for the help.
16:33:14LloreanIt's best to make sure the versions match exactly anyway. Just to be sure.
16:33:15fragilematterlxsys: OF is silent as a mouse, no noise except the power-up click and the player's inherent noise
16:34:35lxsysfragilematter: you're using the current build?
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16:35:30fragilematterand I got the same behavior on a previous build, unfortunately I can't check which 'cause I'm not on my main computer
16:35:44S_a_i_n_tfragilematter: Does it happen irrespective of what its played through? ie. Speakers, Headphones etc.?
16:36:03fragilematterS_a_i_n_t: yes, it's not an impedance problem or anything
16:36:20S_a_i_n_tHmmmm...signs point to borked hardware.
16:36:29S_a_i_n_tWell, thats my guess.
16:37:07fragilematterS_a_i_n_t: it shouldn't be the case, everything works just fine in OF and the noise goes away if I power the radio on and back off in rockbox
16:37:31lxsysfragilematter: does 3.5.1 work?
16:37:50S_a_i_n_tI'd expect everyone with that target to experience the same issue then, but thats not the case.
16:38:15fragilematteralso, I checked the radio regs against the datasheet and, unless the fm chip isn't disabled in some other way, the mute bit isn't 1 after start-up
16:39:02fragilematterlxsys: now trying
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16:40:51S_a_i_n_tNothing changes between 3.5 and 3.5.1 that would cause this.
16:41:15S_a_i_n_tIt only fixes a pausing issue, the not all experienced anyway.
16:41:20fragilematterS_a_i_n_t: I checked that too and I agree, there aren't any apparent reasons
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16:41:32Lloreanfragilematter: How old is your bootloader?
16:41:55fragilematterLlorean: it's 6.0, I haven't updated it in a couple of months
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16:46:42fragilematterlxsys: still happens with 3.5.1
16:48:11lxsyshmm. you say that the mute but isn't 1 after startup?
16:48:22S_a_i_n_tAs I'd entirely expect it to, 3.5.1 only fixed an issue with buffering IIUC
16:48:50fragilematterlxsys: yes, byte 1 is 00
16:49:54S_a_i_n_tIt does *seem* to point to for why the OF works fine is anyones guess.
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16:50:18fragilematterthat means bit 7 is 0 => tea5767 isn't muted
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16:50:51lxsyshmmm.. just trying to work out what my bootloader version is.
16:51:25fragilematterS_a_i_n_t: well, after I get the radio on and I switch to playback again, byte 1 becomes 0xAD
16:52:04S_a_i_n_tIt seems to me that this issue would have been reported before now, have you checked the tracker?
16:52:32fragilematterlxsys: when you power the player up, the first text displayed under the rb logo is "Boot 6.0"
16:52:46S_a_i_n_tIf its not there, we need to think of the reason why its just you having the trouble.
16:52:47fragilematterS_a_i_n_t: I did and I couldn't find no reports
16:54:02fragilematterthat's what I'm trying to figure out, but it looks like an initialization issue
16:54:28lxsysmine says "Ver. 25371-100328"
16:54:53fragilematterlxsys: before that
16:55:51fragilematterI'm also using some sensitive enough IEMs, so the extra noise is pretty obvious
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16:57:19lxsysfragilematter: nope.. only the iriver logo with "EU 1.10" and the rockbox logo with "Ver 25371-100328", then its ready for use.
16:58:04fragilematterlxsys: on mine it's iriver with "UM 1.10", then "Boot 6.0" and then "Ver. 3.5.1"
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16:58:46lxsysfragilematter: then we both have a different type of H10.
16:59:26fragilematterlxsys: mine started out as a north-america MTP model, but I converted it to UMS a long time ago
17:00:01lxsysfragilematter: converted?
17:00:40fragilematterlxsys: you "upgrade" the flash bootloader to the one used in the UMS version, then you swap out the OF for the proper variant
17:00:52fragilematterit's all documented on mysticriver
17:01:15lxsysfragilematter: i never know of that. thanks!
17:01:31fragilematterlxsys: you're welcome
17:03:01Lloreanfragilematter: Could this new flash bootloader you've installed be messing things up then?
17:03:21LloreanAs in, Rockbox may not be tested to work with your specific combination of software?
17:03:52fragilematterLlorean: it worked just fine with this software combo for the most part of a year without any issues
17:04:16LloreanThen it was a Rockbox update without a bootloader change that started the problem?
17:04:35fragilematterexcept the fact that rbutil insists on deleting h10.mi4 from my player anytime I try to use it to update the bootloader :D
17:04:49fragilematterLlorean: most likely yes
17:05:06Lloreanfragilematter: I don't see how this is a "most likely" question.
17:05:09LloreanDid you make other change or not?
17:05:22 Quit lxsys (Quit: Lost terminal)
17:05:30fragilematterLlorean: not that I know of
17:05:31LloreanAnd if it's a Rockbox change, why not just go back through old versions in a binary search to find the one that caused it?
17:05:51LloreanWouldn't that be the most final solution. Bam, revision X is the problem, then you can see what change triggered it.
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17:06:27fragilematterit's weird because there were no changes to the H10 tree for quite a while
17:06:54LloreanWell, you're the one proposing that a change in Rockbox is the problem.
17:07:11LloreanIt should be possible to track down if this is the case, even if it's not obvious from SVN logs what it is immediately
17:07:16S_a_i_n_tSeems like solid advice to me, bisection can seem daunting, but with a fast build environment...its pretty easy.
17:07:46fragilematterokay, checking out and building rev 24000, then I'll work my way up or down from there
17:09:30fragilematteris there a svn command to go from one rev to another without checking out the whole tree?
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17:10:17LloreanYou can update to any revision
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17:11:01fragilematteras in "svn up -r 12345" ?
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17:11:45domonokyfragilematter: jup
17:11:52fragilematterdomonoky: thanks
17:12:13domonoky"svn help up" will also tell you that :-)
17:16:14fragilematterdomonoky: I know, but it didn't cross my mind to start screen, so my session was tied up by svn checking out r24000
17:17:06pixelmabluebroth3r, AlexP: did we agree on \item for menus and submenus in the manual (so submenus need the \item in another "description" environment)? Just looking at cleaning up goban.tex again
17:17:30AlexPI can't remember :)
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17:24:42pixelmaAlexP: would you like to comment on the new button table I made there before I commit? I know it's still not a 100% consistent with the use of curly braces but this looked best to my eyes...
17:24:55pixelmait's only code rearrangement
17:27:03pixelmaok, putting it on pastebin, one moment
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17:30:14pixelmaline 110 is commented out because \nopt doesn't seem to work if the last line in the final manual table would be above that (I already asked bluebroth3r, he could confirm but doesn't know what to do about it)
17:31:00AlexPLooks good to me - nice and readable
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17:35:42pixelmaAlexP: the placement of opening and closing curly braces are sometimes against Rockbox' coding guidelines though, not sure how much these apply to the tex in the manual though
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17:36:24gevaertspixelma: I'd say they don't
17:36:34AlexPpixelma: Not particularly IMO
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17:40:21S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: Around?
17:41:43pixelmaAlexP: I'm not completely happy that it's not consistent in itself - usually I put them on the same line, except longer blocks, then I put the } below - if some nesting happens inside so to speak. It felt like a waste of space to put them on their own in every occasion
17:42:55TheSevenS_a_i_n_t: yes
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17:43:40AlexPA little waste, but I think we can afford that if it improves readability. Perhaps say that if anything else happens in between then they need a new line?
17:44:16S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: Which line(s) should I be looking at in FS #5111 to change to frequency of the piezo "click"? I'm looking, but just not seeing it.
17:44:35S_a_i_n_tI wanna try see if I can get it to sound more like the OF with some pissing around.
17:45:16pixelmaAlexP: it made me see the block easier, e.g. a completely (n)opted line of the table
17:45:26TheSevenat the bottom of the piezo-nano2g.c file
17:46:01AlexPpixelma: Yes, I agree.
17:46:20TheSeven piezo_start(40, 4);
17:46:32TheSeven40 = 1/frequency
17:46:44TheSeven4 = how many periods
17:48:51pixelmaAlexP: should the } of the remote keymap opt get it's own line too? Currently that would be a waste but I'm not sure if things change once they are filled a bit
17:49:16*pixelma feels reminded of the M3 manual :\\
17:49:44AlexPHmmm, difficult one that. For plugins I don't see much happening any time soon, but for the core stuff it is more important
17:50:41pixelmahmm... someone committed a fix for remote buttons in the sim recently, IIRC
17:50:42AlexPPerhaps that can depend on whether there actually are any keys?
17:51:04AlexPi.e. &} is OK, but if there are any keys defined it gets a new line?
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17:53:51pixelmaif nesting happens, to understand the "inner" and "outer" structure better? Could work... now to put it in some short explanation and I'll have a commit message - or something to add to the LatexGuidelines(Talk) page(s)
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18:01:15archivatoris there anyone affiliated with Rockbox who has solid understanding of TTS theory? I might need some guidance in that area, should I choose to apply for the TTS engine project..
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18:03:22gevaertsarchivator: I'm not sure, but I suspect not
18:04:13archivatorgevaerts: it appears that there are a handful of people *in the whole world* that fit my criteria :( We should recruit one of them! :)
18:04:24gevaertsarchivator: You could become one of them!
18:05:00archivatoryeah, right. Have you *seen* the textbooks on the matter (all 2 of them)?
18:05:43archivatorThe worst part is that they're library use only so I can use them only so much. Can't really start from the beginning.
18:06:02gevaertsHow much do you really need to know about it though?
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18:07:57archivatorgevaerts: in the case of flite, a fair bit. There are some parts that will need rewriting.
18:08:23gevaertsHave you talked to the flite folks, or do you know where they hang out?
18:08:32archivatorIf I ever want to build a new voice from scratch, I'm gonna need to understand every last bit of the process.
18:09:39gevaertsWhy does it need rewriting bits? FP?
18:09:44archivatorflite person, actually. Alan W. Black is the guy in charge of flite. I wrote him a letter some time last month. No reply.
18:10:21archivatorYou have to realize that flite has a tiny user base
18:11:08 Quit l403 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
18:11:09archivatorCompared to festival, flite is virtually unsupported (as in, no mailing list, bug tracker, etc.).
18:11:29S_a_i_n_tso, you'd think they'd want to expand...
18:11:31gevaertsthat's a definite downside...
18:12:24archivatorS_a_i_n_t: it seems the attitude is more like "this is a proof of concept. If you want to use it commercially, devote your own resources"
18:12:49S_a_i_n_tAhhhh. :/
18:14:33archivatorI wouldn't mind that attitude, if there were any significant amount of documentation. While there *are* some docs, the internal magic is widely undocumented.. which is what's troubling me the most
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18:16:16archivatorFrom what I can tell, the festlang-talk mailing list has some flite threads. Will try asking for help there.
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18:19:03gevaertsthe alternative would be espeak I guess, with it's own upstream support issues
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18:21:18archivatorSeems like it. There's something called openmary that's well-written and supported but it's written in Java.
18:21:34archivatorjust my luck, I guess..
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18:27:58gevaertsarchivator: there's apparently also a thing called recite (, but its upstream website disappeared. It's GPL1+ :)
18:28:33archivatorThere's also gnuspeech which is what I'm looking into right now.
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18:29:29archivatorThe thing is, gnuspeech uses articulatory synthesis (which is cpu-intensive, from what I gather) and espeak is formant synthesis (which sounds unnatural).
18:29:56archivatorI really wanted a diphone synthesis system. Unit selection, if the resources allow it.
18:30:37gevaertsis gnuspeech really alive?
18:31:00gevaertsThey'll "soon" have downloads for something other than gnustep
18:31:19archivatorgnuspeech is a lot of data, really
18:31:28archivatorthere's cgstmad that uses that data
18:31:41archivatorhowever, cgstmad is written in c++
18:31:57gevaertsAlso, isn't it GPL3 as well?
18:32:48*Llorean really likes espeak's pronunciation at least.
18:32:52archivatoryes, yes it is.
18:33:05archivatoroh, well, another one off the list
18:33:07LloreanWhatever their algorithm for context-sensitive choices relating to the rest of the sentence, it's generally pretty good.
18:33:32LloreanThe mbrola voices make it sound a lot better too, but that's not something we could use in Rockbox.
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18:33:42archivatorbecause of licensing?
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18:33:55archivatorI am quite fond of mrbola myself.
18:33:58gevaertsLlorean: rockbox as a project couldn't. Users might still be able to do that
18:34:09Lloreangevaerts: AFAIK it's only available as standalone binaries
18:34:17Lloreanespeak handles the phonemes and passes them to mbrola for speaking.
18:34:19gevaertsah, ok then
18:34:28archivatorLlorean: even the data? Hmm, I'll have to look into that
18:34:33 Quit fragilematter (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:34:37LloreanI don't know, maybe there's a way around it
18:34:39archivatorThey do have models for a lot of languages...
18:34:52LloreanIf we could do espeak + mbrola in Rockbox, it would be my favorite possibility
18:35:05Lloreanmbrola sounds good, and espeak makes good choices.
18:35:12LloreanOf course, licensing is still a mess.
18:35:32gevaertsespeak 1.26 is getting a bit old as well. Does that work with mbrola at all?
18:36:02archivatorgevaerts: the FS entry mentioned that mrbola support was stripped
18:36:03LloreanI seem to recall that I did espeak with mbrola before the GPLv3 change, but I'm not 100% certain
18:36:18archivatorthen again, that wasn't based on 1.26 ..
18:36:32CIA-5New commit by tomers (r25372): Brickmania: Don't use hard coded value
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18:59:09DEBUGEOF from server (Connection reset by peer) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545)
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18:59:18fragilem1tterI'm having severe connection problems
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19:37:47archivatorlooks like Llorean was right - mrbola voices can only be used with the mrbola binary. No source code available..
19:38:28gevaertsHow is that compatible with espeak being GPL?
19:38:53archivatorthe binary has a socket interface, apparently
19:38:56gevaertsoh well, not really our problem
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19:39:26archivatoracts like a speech server - a model that seems to be quite popular among all types of synthesizers (and is the way rbutil uses festival)..
19:40:32pixelmayou mean mbrola?
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19:41:14pixelmajust in case someone searches the logs later on
19:41:18archivator? Rbutil can use festival's −−server mode, a technique that's popular among speech synthesizer software
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19:41:30archivatorand mrbola has a server mode, too, apparently
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19:43:37archivatorgevaerts: about that recite package you linked to - it looks pretty bad.
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19:44:02gevaertsarchivator: well, it's from 1993 as far as I can see
19:44:16archivatorIts vocabulary is hardcoded and it just synthesizes a lot of phonemes together
19:44:28archivatorLittle to no attention to the big picture
19:44:51archivatorIt might have been adequate in 1993 but things have advanced significantly since then :)
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19:45:15gevaertsIt doesn't have license issues though. We are fully compatible with GPLv1+ :)
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19:47:20archivatorIt seems to me that I'm paying too little attention to licensing issues while you're overcompensating and looking just at the license :D
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20:02:25BuschelLlorean: Your comments on FS #11148 are very much appreciated.
20:02:48LloreanI'm not sure I worded them clearly (it was sort of stream of thought)
20:03:05LloreanBut I'm just curious how accurate assumptions for say an iPod 5G will end up being on an H100 or what not.
20:03:13LloreanOr even color vs mono iPods, etc.
20:03:30BuschelLlorean: Regarding the LCD sleep. On a 5G iPod the savings are about 6-8 mA constantly. The backlight consumes much more, but will only be switched on for a short duration.
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20:04:21LloreanBut that "short duration" could be 15 seconds once every 10 minutes. Over a 10 hour charge period that's what, 25 minutes on?
20:05:07LloreanIt'd be nice to be able to say something approximate like "if you check your screen more than twice an hour, you should try to use transflection, but if you expect to check less often than this, it's better to use the backlight" or similar.
20:05:16BuschelLet's say the backlight needs 20mA. Then 4 minutes LCD sleep compensate for 1 minute LC and backlight on.
20:05:43LloreanDoesn't the 5G iPod also have one of the higher power draws for its screen, being a larger screen?
20:06:23BuschelWell, I could change the whole section to just be enabled for 5G :o) And for 5G the statement is very well fitting :)
20:06:53LloreanMaybe just reword it so that it's clear that it's heavily dependent on use habits?
20:07:02LloreanI don't know. :)
20:08:22BuschelI thought "from time to time" was fine. But I am no native speaker...
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20:09:26LloreanWell, "time to time" means pretty different things to different people, I guess.
20:09:36LloreanIt's probably good enough as it is.
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20:11:31BuschelRegarding your other comments: I wanted to keep the statements as easy as possible. E.g. I didn't want to explain users that above a special codec efficiency there is no more savings (due to unboosted playback).
20:11:49pixelmathe patch should be checked for other things that should be opted - e.g the backlight section should be excluded for the Ondios because they don't have backlight (there is no feature for it because it was decided that the voice files contain those strings so that people with modded devices can use downloadable voice files)
20:12:57pixelmacodecs - not for hwcodec targets (and a note about file size added maybe)
20:12:59fragilemattershould I open a formal bug report on the iriver h10 force mono bug that I encountered?
20:13:42BuschelLlorean: And regaring the bitrate -> yes, the same is valid for flash targets. But from what I know reading from flash is not that power consuming as HDDs are. So, the battery runtime is not scaling that much...
20:13:56Buschelpixelma: good points!
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20:20:47pixelma"have high impact on"? First paragraph
20:20:58LloreanBuschel: Well, I'm not sure what point there is in referencing them to a page that tells them what CPU speed each codec requires for realtime when they don't have a good way to translate that into anything useful other than "lower numbers are better"
20:21:27pixelmanot all targets have CPU boosting
20:21:29fragilematterare any iriver h300, samsung yh920 or onda vx747 users around?
20:21:30LloreanI mean, you don't want it to sound like we'd recommend converting from one lossy to another (or to FLAC) when there's actually no savings to be had (or performance could be significantly lowered)
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20:22:05pixelmaBuschel: the hwcodec ones definitely do not have boosting
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20:23:54Buschelbrb, need to bring my son to sleep :)
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20:25:17pixelmafragilematter: any specific reason you only ask for these users?
20:25:40fragilematterbecause I found the root of the noise problem that I was experiencing
20:26:00fragilematterand I'm trying to see if it affects any of the other targets that have the same fm chip
20:28:07pixelmaumm.. this Philipps TEA chips is in even more targets - the H100, many (most) OndioFMs and the Iaudios with radio have a unlabelled chip which takes the same instructions though so seems to be the same internally
20:28:39Lloreanfragilematter: Did you track down which build introduced the problem?
20:29:12fragilematterwell, at least on the H10, if you enable "force mono" then reboot, you'll get background nois
20:29:32fragilematterLlorean: current svn and previous, I only tested until rev 20000
20:29:36archivatorCan I assume all arm rockbox targets are >= armv4t?
20:30:26Tornethey are at the moment
20:30:41Torneu nlss someone finds an mp3 player with an arm710 or something ;)
20:30:51fragilematterand all of them exhibited the noise issue as long as force mono is enabled for fm
20:31:09archivatorright, just making sure my basic assumptions are correct :)
20:32:36pixelmafragilematter: I could try on my OndioFM (which has the same chip) and on my M5 (with X5 tuner board) later on but I haven't noticed background noise so far
20:33:27fragilematterpixelma: thanks, I'm trying to see if it's specific to the H10 or not
20:34:19flybackfragilematter, what h10 do you have
20:34:43fragilematterflyback: 6gb, with tea5767 fm
20:34:52flybackyeah I got a 5gb
20:34:58flybackgot it off ebay broken for $7
20:35:09flybackadded a $7 cable and $10 brand new seagate 4gb hd and it lasted a month :/
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20:35:28Lloreanflyback: I'm serious, please stop rambling about stuff that isn't Rockbox development/support discussion.
20:35:36LloreanThat's why the -community channel exists.
20:35:39flybackif it wasn't for that f***ing retarded "flex ata" interface I would have swapped in a cf for testing etc
20:35:45flybackwhen you go there
20:35:53flybackthey tell you the community channel is not for rockbox discussion
20:36:01flybackI wish you two would get the story straight
20:36:07LloreanYeah, and "I bought an MP3 player for $7" isn't Rockbox discussion
20:36:14flybackit's a h10 like his
20:36:29LloreanYeah, and what you paid for it has nothing to do with Rockbox
20:36:32pixelmafragilematter: no background noise on the Ondio
20:36:44LloreanHe's looking for someone to confirm a bug, that is Rockbox discussion.
20:37:06flybackI was about to offer if I could get the damn thing running again
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20:38:22fragilematterpixelma: thanks, I'll assume that it's h10-specific... now I need to see how (when) rb loads the force mono setting and how can I get it to be restored without leaking noise
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20:40:58pixelmano noise on my Iaudio either
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20:42:12fragilematterI'll start looking at firmware/target/arm/iriver/h10
20:43:25LloreanIt might just be the order of events? Does Rockbox set the radio to mono during bootup, or does it not do anything until you enter the FM screen?
20:43:49LloreanThe simplest solution might just be to ensure that the FM is muted again after the .cfg is loaded?
20:43:59fragilematterwell, the noise appears at boot
20:44:20fragilematterand the fm regs hint that rb sets the mono at boot, but it doesn't mute the chip
20:45:24fragilematterwith force mono, it inits with 0x00 0x00 0x08 0x00 0x00
20:45:33pixelmado you mean only during boot, loading cfg or also later on
20:45:49fragilematterand 0x08 is exactly bit 4 of byte 3 - force mono
20:45:52fragilematterduring boot
20:46:10fragilematterand without force mono, it boots with all bytes 0x0
20:46:59fragilematterbasically, when loading the force mono at boot, it should also set bit 7 of byte 1 to 1
20:47:02pixelmaI didn't understand that and have to repeat the test
20:47:25fragilematterpixelma: enable force mono in the fm menu, then reboot the player
20:47:52fragilematterand listen to noise that is around -65dB
20:48:12fragilemattereventually it fluctuates as you move the player or push buttons
20:51:53pixelmaI still can't hear noise on the Iaudio during boot
20:52:23fragilematternot during boot, but after it starts up
20:53:20fragilematterand the noise goes on until you go into the fm menu and then stop the radio (basically, until the radio is properly muted)
20:53:33pixelmawould it be a short thing or is it going on longer for you?
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20:54:03fragilematterthe noise stays on in the background, it even overlaps with music playback
20:54:05pixelmano, I don't hear that
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20:54:45fragilemattereventually, check the fm radio regs in the debug menu
20:55:02pixelmaI have voice enabled though (and voice respectively talk files around), not sure if it affects testing
20:55:49fragilematterit shouldn't
20:56:47pixelmathe bits are set as you said (for write)
20:56:59fragilematterwith 08 on the 3rd byte?
20:57:32fragilematterthen probably that specific tea7567 implementation stays silent and the one in the h10 doesn't
20:57:49fragilemattereither way, setting the mute bit on bite 1 shouldn't hurt
20:58:46CIA-5New commit by tomers (r25373): Fractals: Remove redundant assignment to a variable (y_delta) ...
20:59:01pixelmacould it also have to do with the audio codec?
20:59:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:59:32fragilematterwell, it depends on how the audio output from the fm chip is handled
21:00:10pixelmatomers: is the defaul colour scheme of fractals (on colour screens) still this low contrast green and blue?
21:01:51tomerspixelma: I don't think so
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21:07:29Buschelpixelma, Llorean: updated the manual-patch. comments welcome
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21:11:00tomersSansa e200r release links are still dead:
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21:11:58gevaertsYes, those links shouldn't be there
21:12:00mc2739tomers: e200r uses the e200 build - it does not have its own build
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21:14:27tomersmc2739: ok, but still these links should be fixed
21:14:40pixelmaBuschel: there is no "backlight" feature. I tried to explain this but it's probably not easy to get if you aren't "affected" yourself :)
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21:16:10Buschelpixelma: yes, maybe ;o) Is it really only the ondio's that should be nopt'ed ?
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21:18:04pixelmacurrently yes, and I doubt there will be other... hmm... how does the Clips' OLED display fit in there?
21:18:14mc2739tomers: I agree, thats why I opened FS #10878
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21:21:01CIA-5New commit by Buschel (r25374): Minor manual fix: list_accel_start_delay and list_accel_wait are not used, if HAVE_WHEEL_ACCELERATION is defined.
21:23:37plauclairhi, I'm wondering.. is rockbox using bitmap fonts or does it have its own raster engine ?
21:23:48pixelmaBuschel: I believe the the lists inside opts aren't allowed to have spaces in them - I *think* in this case the opt is ignored for the part after the comma, not a 100% sure though
21:24:14pixelmaafter the space I mean
21:24:24Buschelpixelma: will remove them to avoid any failures
21:25:19plauclairLlorean: is it a format specific to rockbox ?
21:25:53pixelmashould be obvious if you compile a manual for a HD hwcodec target (anything but the Ondios)
21:25:54LloreanThey're converted from bdf to a Rockbox-specific format.
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21:30:09pixelmaBuschel: nice to see some more people helping out with the manual btw :)
21:31:46Buschelpixelma: :o) btw, the space after the comma in \opt does not do any harm.
21:32:17pixelmais the section included in e.g. a Recorder manual?
21:36:12pixelmaswcodec is already true for e.g. the Ipod Video. I just thought that the part after the comma was ignored because that's what I saw with line breaks inside an \opt list (which is why escaping the linefeed with a comment helped)... at least that was my explanation for the latter fact
21:36:31Buschelpixelma: just testing with another "false" option
21:37:12pixelmano breakage of the manual build, it was just as if this one option was ignored
21:42:01Buschelpixelma: the space does not do any harm. when using \opt{false, true} and \opt{false,true} the results are the same.
21:42:26pixelmait's not false true
21:42:46pixelmaopt is just a "true" list
21:44:03Buschelyes, but if the first option is not true and the equation ends with the comma (in case of using a space), the true-list should have been empty. or am I totally mislead?
21:44:35pixelmaso \opt{swcodec,disk_storage}{blah} will include blah for every target where either swcodec or disk storage is true (or both)
21:45:03pixelmaBuschel: that sounds correct - what did you try?
21:45:25Buschelyes. for my test I have used \opt{spdif_power, swcodec} on a 5G iPod. spdif_power is for sure not defined
21:45:59pixelmainteresting. I'm surprised
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21:46:23Buschelpixelma: to be safe I will nevertheless delete the sapce :)
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22:01:35stripwaxbuschel - did you have any newer thoughts on fs#8596? i'm doing another battery test, and depending on outcome on my ipod 5g 60GB, i might just commit it ...
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22:08:30Buschelstripwax: the power off voltage in your patch is very high. when (in terms of voltage) does your player shut off?
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22:12:20stripwaxgood question. at the end of the battery bench, whatever that was
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22:12:44Buschelstripwax: do you have an actual bench at hand?
22:14:19stripwaxi'm rerunning one now - but my bench is in that tracker entry
22:14:33Buschellet me check
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22:18:40Buschelhmm, was this recorder including your patch?
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22:20:23stripwax.. which patch?
22:20:49stripwaxoh the discharge curve patch itself?
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22:21:01Buschelstripwax: yes :)
22:21:04stripwaxthat doesn't affect the voltage readings surely?
22:21:21Buschelno, but it affects when the device will shut down
22:21:30stripwaxthe one i'm running now is definitely unpatched.
22:21:39Buschelstripwax: good
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22:22:18Buschelstripwax: the patch will shut down the device when the battery voltage reaches 3.5V. Other targets shut down at 3.3V
22:23:11Buschelstripwax: ahem, shut down at 3.4V, "dangerous" at 3.5V
22:23:59stripwaxok. I don't think my battery ever got below 3.4, or as low as 3.3v. but that's from memory, can't recall. will see when the battery test is done (in around 24 hours :-) )
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22:26:26Buschelstripwax: maybe the voltage drops significantly lower on 60GB Videos than an 30GB Videos when buffering. other HDDs and twice as long spinning/reading time due to the large RAM. maybe that's why they seem to stop at high voltages. they just hit the ground while bufferinng...
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22:28:22Buschelstripwax: if so, this is a perfect reason to create new discharge curves to be able to signal the user the battery will not survive too much longer (e.g. the next buffering).
22:29:27CIA-5New commit by Buschel (r25375): Add a remark regarding scrollwheel acceleration to the manual.
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22:33:27Buschelstripwax: are you using fs#8668 for this bench? or plain svn without line-out, with lcd sleep, without accessory supply?
22:33:45Buschelstripwax: and clean restart of course :)
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22:38:30Buschelstripwax: btw, one of your old benchs on the ipodruntime wiki shows voltages about 3.3-3.4V. they look pretty normal.
22:47:40archivatorJust did a basic analysis of flite - about a hundred floating point operations in the entire codebase. Not too bad, I think.
22:48:28archivator(judged by the number of calls to the mathemu routines)
22:48:32stripwaxplain svn, no line out, no accessory supply, and also no lcd sleep
22:49:06stripwaxi wanted to do a comparison versus OF. hence no lcd sleep.
22:49:41stripwaxit shouldn't change the discharge curve .. just the x scale..
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22:50:22Buschelit will not run >=24h then.
22:50:35Buschelthe power consumption of the LCD is too high
22:50:54stripwaxi wanted to do a comparison versus OF ... it doesn't have to run >= 24h ...
22:51:15Buschelok, you just mentioned it somewhere before
22:51:39stripwaxjust that the battery bench won't be finished until tomorrow.. that's all ...
22:52:21stripwaxthat will be the next time i'm on irc .. i sortof don't care if the runtime is 20hrs or 16 hrs.
22:53:03Buschellet's see ;)
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22:56:44stripwaxbtw I think Torne was saying that the ipod rockbox runtime should be 'at least as good' as the OF with the LCD on. at least I think it was Torne. could've been someone else.
22:57:10TorneIt should be, yah
22:57:16TorneOF is quoted as getting 20h
22:57:41Buschelrockbox should reach similar runtime.
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22:58:11stripwaxwith accessory supply on? does OF have lineout enabled permanently too or only when docked?
22:58:41Buschelfrom what I could measure -> both are always on
22:58:50Buschelon OF
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22:59:07Buschelwhat means there is another trick the OF does to compensate for this...
22:59:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:59:25Buschelmaybe 24MHz (or lower) un-boosted clock?
22:59:33*Buschel hides away
23:00:47gevaertsNever. Who would even think of doing such a thing? :)
23:01:03 Join perfectdrug [0] (
23:02:47stripwaxcould measure the ipod cpu clock...
23:03:52 Quit Highlander (Quit: Quitte)
23:06:11Buschelyou colud?
23:06:20 Quit anewuser ()
23:08:47Buschelgotta go to sleep now. see you!
23:08:49 Quit Buschel ()
23:08:53 Quit m3dlg (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:09:07pamauryDoes someone know well ata-sd-pp.c ?
23:09:28 Join CareBear\ [0] (
23:09:55 Join m3dlg [0] (
23:10:14CareBear\hi everyone - I'm looking for Bertrik or anyone else who knows their way around lpcusb and would be keen on helping me with some debugging :)
23:11:36gevaertsCareBear\: you might be better off in #rockbox-community. He usually hangs out there, and things like that aren't off-topic there :)
23:12:48B4gderunless the usb stuff is about rockbox of course!
23:13:42pamaurydo you know if someone knows well the ata/sd code ? In particular, I'm looking at ata-sd-pp.c but I nothing about the code, and don't have any documentation (It's about reducing the size of a buffer)
23:14:13 Quit linuxguy3 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:15:25 Join CGL [0] (~CGL@
23:15:33CareBear\gevaerts : thanks! I'll go there, I know it's off-topic here.
23:15:39 Part CareBear\
23:16:58saratogalooks like toni, jhmikes, jdgordon
23:16:59 Quit Lear (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819])
23:17:12 Quit Kitar|st ()
23:25:03pamaurysaratoga: thanks, I'll ask JdGordon tomorrow then
23:26:22 Join Kitar|st [0] (Kitr88@
23:28:59 Join linuxguy3 [0] (
23:40:42 Quit efyx (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:43:24Tornepeople with PP ipods: I am testing a new fix for the shutdown/restart problem which shouldn't have the problems of the current workaround: <- please test
23:45:24stripwaxTorne - I will :-)
23:45:36 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
23:45:37Tornegood stuff
23:45:48Torneyou'll probably have to use it for a fairly extended period for us to be confident about it
23:45:58Torneit's in my regular build now and I am using the ipod as my main player again
23:46:42 Quit merbanan (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:49:39 Nick scorche` is now known as scorche (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
23:53:51pamauryJdGordon: you took part in the development of ata-sd-pp, right ? I need some clarifications about it
23:54:35 Join blairb [0] (
23:56:07pamauryJdGordon: saratoga gave the link of the FS task for it, you appear several times, did you only test it ? (I did have the courage to read it :))
23:56:43CtcpPing from gevaerts!~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
23:56:48JdGordonI dont remember writing any of it
23:57:40gevaertspamaury: maybe FlynDice or funman can help. They've not done that driver, but they've done sd things
23:58:09*FlynDice sees someone volunteering me ;-)

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