00:00:02 | Llorean | gevaerts: I don't know how this works. Is there an explicit request for them, or are they given to the host as part of something else, or? |
00:00:13 | gevaerts | they're part of the device descriptor |
00:00:24 | gevaerts | you can't leave them out |
00:00:32 | Llorean | linuxstb: Well, iPods have never been drm-only content, so his guess that they may want to require someone to buy the "iPod kit" may not be too far off the mark. |
00:01:37 | gevaerts | The only precedent I see is that on some other consumer devices, it's possible to change these numbers in an obscure database called the "registry" or some similar confusing name |
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00:04:27 | Llorean | gevaerts: What sort of options does that usually have? |
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00:06:26 | gevaerts | VID/PID and classes to support I think. It's not at all meant for end users to change, but you can do it |
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00:07:05 | troll-brasil-c20 | hello put the bios to boot rockbox but it does not start only the original will? |
00:08:20 | gevaerts | You mean the bootloader? Which device is this? |
00:09:44 | * | Strife89 guesses at "c200". Perhaps a v2. |
00:10:00 | troll-brasil-c20 | so the bootloader but the screen stays black but only bind holding>> starts the original sansa |
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00:10:24 | gevaerts | Is rockbox itself installed? |
00:11:56 | troll-brasil-c20 | botei asend manually put the buttons on and off normally but nothing appears on the screen and |
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00:13:26 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: THere are two parts that you need to install Rockbox: the bootloader, and Rockbox itself. |
00:13:47 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: It sounds like you've only installed the bootloader. |
00:14:11 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Did you attempt to install Rockbox manually, or did you use Rockbox Utility. |
00:14:11 | Strife89 | ? |
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00:15:02 | troll-brasil-c20 | Rockbox manually |
00:15:44 | troll-brasil-c20 | Rockbox manually because it does not support sansac200v2 |
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00:15:58 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Okay, then let's try something. Connect your device to the computer. |
00:17:02 | troll-brasil-c20 | Connect |
00:17:42 | troll-brasil-c20 | connected |
00:17:44 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Get this zip file: |
00:17:46 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-sansac200v2.zip |
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00:20:16 | troll-brasil-c20 | Download it |
00:20:55 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Okay, now open the folder that you downloaded it to. |
00:21:30 | troll-brasil-c20 | open |
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00:21:59 | troll-brasil-c20 | ready |
00:22:10 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Okay, right-click on the file and click "Extract Here". |
00:22:26 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: You must right-click on the .zip file itself. |
00:22:44 | troll-brasil-c20 | ready |
00:23:04 | * | Luca_S just started a battery bench on fuzev2, using the lame_128 test file looping |
00:23:24 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Okay, it should have made a new folder called "rockbox-sansac200". Open it. |
00:23:38 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Inside you will see a folder called ".rockbox". |
00:24:00 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Copy ".rockbox" to your Sansa. |
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00:24:10 | troll-brasil-c20 | ready |
00:24:25 | Strife89 | Is the folder copied? |
00:24:43 | troll-brasil-c20 | wait... |
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00:25:29 | troll-brasil-c20 | ready |
00:25:45 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Is ".rockbox" in the root of the Sansa? |
00:25:54 | troll-brasil-c20 | yes |
00:25:58 | Strife89 | Okay. |
00:25:59 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Use Safely Remove Hardware to make it safe to unplug your Sansa. |
00:26:21 | Strife89 | Then, once Windows says it's safe, unplug your Sansa. |
00:26:38 | troll-brasil-c20 | ok |
00:26:53 | troll-brasil-c20 | unplug Sansa |
00:27:00 | troll-brasil-c20 | ready |
00:27:01 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Now, turn off your Sansa, then turn it back on. |
00:27:12 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Don't hold Left when you turn it on. |
00:27:35 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: If everything has been done correctly, Rockbox should start. |
00:28:16 | troll-brasil-c20 | the screen is black and light blue on the menu is weak and then off |
00:28:48 | Strife89 | :/ |
00:29:21 | troll-brasil-c20 | to squeeze a button it lights up but nothing appears on the display |
00:29:46 | Strife89 | Hmmm. |
00:30:22 | * | linuxstb wonders if this is why the c200v2 port is classed as "unusable" |
00:30:32 | troll-brasil-c20 | I have an 8gb memory card for it is beyond the sansa should I put them in? |
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00:31:18 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: If you did everything right, and the Sansa is indeed not booting Rockbox, then it is possible that Rockbox is just not ready for your type of Sansa. |
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00:31:42 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: And Rockbox does support 8GB cards. |
00:31:45 | troll-brasil-c20 | To do this it need not be formatted alright because it has space available |
00:33:12 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: You should not need to format the Sansa or the memory card. |
00:33:48 | troll-brasil-c20 | but has evolved considerably since the first time I did once he died now he is already giving dual boot:) |
00:34:12 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Indeed, there is progress. :) |
00:34:31 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: With that said, it seems that Rockbox is not ready to run on your type of Sansa. It may be better to remove it for now. |
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00:35:19 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Would you like to remove Rockbox for now? |
00:36:14 | troll-brasil-c20 | irei remolver mas vo tar sempre de olho e testando sempre que novas versões forem saindo |
00:37:12 | troll-brasil-c20 | and delete and do not? |
00:37:35 | troll-brasil-c20 | but I will remolver vo tar always watching and always testing new versions are coming out |
00:38:33 | Strife89 | troll-brasil-c20: Are you saying that you'd prefer to keep Rockbox on your Sansa, and just keep testing new versions? |
00:40:03 | troll-brasil-c20 | so you guys know the Sansa supports all version of bios 3:02:05 indepedent of the country so that the European deiche without fm |
00:41:36 | troll-brasil-c20 | I'll try to put the Rockbox whenever you update out until a stable version |
00:41:52 | gevaerts | that's probably the best thing to do |
00:42:24 | troll-brasil-c20 | and |
00:43:43 | troll-brasil-c20 | us here in Brazil we will be happy with that because here come few and nei sansa but has to sell and tamos eye on updates |
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00:48:17 | troll-brasil-c20 | the simulator runs well but for now the unit will not:) |
00:50:24 | troll-brasil-c20 | Thank you for trying to help and good luck in advance |
00:50:32 | gevaerts | Thanks |
00:51:48 | troll-brasil-c20 | goodbye and see you soon |
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01:04:07 | fml | The last commit to the manual misses a file, I think (hotkeys.tex). |
01:04:48 | gevaerts | hm, that might be better on the mailing list so he sees it... |
01:05:32 | fml | Maybe. But I'l leave in a moment. The missed file is referenced in "browsing_and_playing.tex" |
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01:06:31 | pixelma | huh... maybe that is breaking my goban.tex patch and not something wrong I did |
01:11:14 | * | gevaerts sent the email |
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01:32:23 | soap | in all seriousness, gevaerts / Llorean, what is the /harm/ in Rockbox shipping with the manufacturer USB IDs, but making their values accessible for change deep in the debug menu? |
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01:32:56 | gevaerts | soap: if that's the best option I can live with it |
01:33:58 | soap | Well, I agree with you that the "best" option is for motherhating manufactures not to abuse their consumers and put in stupid locks - but that is something we have no power over. |
01:34:28 | gevaerts | obviously |
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01:35:26 | Blue_Dude | fml: Working on the missing file. Sorry. |
01:36:24 | soap | The three issues I see are (cough) binsize/complexity, lying to RBUtil, and provoking the wrath of the mysterious USB overlords. The third issue being likely moot as it wasn't like this can't be (slightly less easily) changed already. |
01:37:10 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25443): Manual update for hotkeys |
01:37:44 | gevaerts | I think that hiding it in the debug menu without any persistence isn't really a service to the people who need it though |
01:37:45 | Blue_Dude | Forgot to add new manual files to svn. Fixed now. |
01:37:52 | soap | Fourth issue being the possible breaking of some Apple accessories. |
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01:38:48 | gevaerts | I'd suggest a hidden setting, but we Don't Do Those, right? |
01:38:55 | soap | Didn't realize none of the debug entries have persistence. |
01:39:03 | soap | Was about to say almost exactly the same thing. |
01:40:34 | soap | On a wholly unrelated subject - am I the only one who got the PM from sixthofmay? If not would someone who has actually been following said thread care to follow up? |
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01:53:07 | kugel | ah great, I can use an irq for the fuzev2 wheel |
01:54:21 | kugel | no more polling hack! |
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01:59:36 | linuxstb | gevaerts: Talking about USB, I don't suppose Rockbox gets any info about the host before it sends the IDs? |
01:59:44 | gevaerts | no |
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02:00:11 | gevaerts | The device descriptor is the very first thing the host asks for |
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02:03:45 | Llorean | soap: I've got nothing at all against hiding it in the debug menu. |
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02:05:16 | gnathos | is theseven here? |
02:07:32 | * | gevaerts looks around |
02:07:34 | gevaerts | apparently not |
02:10:02 | Strife89 | !seen TheSeven |
02:10:21 | Strife89 | Wait, no bot. *facepalm* |
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03:50:08 | jhMikeS | "linuxstb jhMikeS: Do you think you'll be around Rockbox this summer and able to help out with any mpegplayer SoC project? " <−− most likely |
03:50:57 | jhMikeS | "n1s jhMikeS: do you have plans for the voltage/freq scaling on the beast+ " < hell yes, and it's a huge PITA to unravel Freescale's junk on the matter :) |
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04:05:53 | gnathos | yo anyone seen theseven? |
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04:13:39 | gump | anybody on that is familiar with the ipod nano 2g? |
04:14:09 | S_a_i_n_t_ | mostly |
04:14:16 | S_a_i_n_t_ | what's your question? |
04:14:27 | gump | i cant get the rockbox bootloader off of it |
04:14:44 | S_a_i_n_t_ | define please. |
04:14:53 | S_a_i_n_t_ | what have you tried, what errors are you getting? |
04:14:59 | gump | the apple firmware functions perfectly but the rockbox bootloader loads every time i start it up and says cannot find rockbox.ipod |
04:15:11 | gump | i have reformatted it many times |
04:15:31 | gump | it says boot to disk mode when i get that error so i do, and when i try to reformat it says the device is read only |
04:15:31 | S_a_i_n_t_ | have you tried using ipodpatcher to remove the bootloader? |
04:15:53 | gump | no. ive used itunes and the hp reformat tool |
04:16:09 | gump | it will only reformat when i start it with the hold switch on |
04:16:13 | gump | otherwise it says it is read only |
04:16:54 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Try ipodpatcher |
04:17:29 | gump | alright. i'll have to boot to windows, im in linux right now. brb |
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04:28:31 | S_a_i_n_t_ | gump: You left too quickly, there *is* a linux binary for ipodpatcher |
04:28:48 | S_a_i_n_t_ | but you can get the all of them here http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodPatcher#Download |
04:28:51 | gump | lol yes i noticed that just now |
04:29:31 | gump | wow. it worked. |
04:29:39 | S_a_i_n_t_ | ;) |
04:29:39 | gump | ive been trying to fix this for weeks |
04:29:54 | gump | gonna try and restore it now |
04:29:58 | S_a_i_n_t_ | And *that's* how you uninstall the bootloader ;) |
04:30:08 | gump | you...rock |
04:30:09 | gump | thanks |
04:30:16 | S_a_i_n_t_ | No worries man. |
04:30:30 | S_a_i_n_t_ | iTunes restore should work fine now. |
04:30:51 | gump | so what do you think the problem was with rockbox? |
04:30:55 | gump | should i try installing it again? |
04:31:13 | S_a_i_n_t_ | What happened exactly? |
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04:31:45 | gump | i installed it and it worked fine. it was processing all the tags, then i restarted it and the bootloader said "could not load rockbox.ipod switch to disk mode" |
04:31:57 | gump | and from then on i couldnt format it or anything |
04:32:22 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Hmmmmmm, seems a little odd. |
04:32:23 | gump | it didnt even show up as an ipod when in disk mode |
04:32:33 | S_a_i_n_t_ | My advice would be to put Rockbox back on it. |
04:32:52 | S_a_i_n_t_ | I have 2 RB'd Nano2g's...and they both work fine. |
04:33:11 | S_a_i_n_t_ | But it is still an "unstable" build, so it has a few hiccups now & then. |
04:33:30 | gump | hmm |
04:33:35 | gump | well i will try it then |
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04:36:04 | S_a_i_n_t_ | If you need to ask a question during install, just ask... |
04:36:10 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Better safe than sorry ;) |
04:48:36 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Wooo! "Symmetry" for iPod Nano 1/2G is *finally* finished! (I *think*...) |
04:52:19 | S_a_i_n_t_ | The newest version is on the Theme Site... |
04:52:27 | S_a_i_n_t_ | *now* |
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05:37:29 | CIA-5 | New commit by nls (r25444): 'floor 0' files requirĂng too much memory should no longer crash since the longjmp stuff |
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05:43:08 | FlynDice | funman: How's your clip+ working now? I had problems reading uSD all day today and finally have a chance to look now. |
05:43:35 | funman | FlynDice: uSD has some problems, also reported on ABI forums; likely due to changed CPU speed |
05:43:57 | funman | although it's random: sometime insert uSD => panic, sometime i can play a bit from it |
05:44:19 | jennifur | I've been getting a panic when I play from the uSD |
05:44:29 | funman | I didn't test extensively since i'm still running a battery bench (now at 13hours, if it goes beyond 15h30 i'll switch the CPU normal freq to 24MHz |
05:44:29 | jennifur | I've the fuzeV2 though. |
05:44:36 | FlynDice | I was going to try some delays after setting divs, OF seems to do that ~ 40 nops |
05:45:14 | jennifur | If there is anything I can help test out, let me know. |
05:45:31 | funman | FlynDice: i suggest wait until my bench is finished, so you dont' have to do the same thing 2 times |
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05:45:43 | funman | 120 -> 60/240MHz and then 60/240 -> 24/240 |
05:45:57 | FlynDice | I've got 25 hours while Im in Atlanta to split between rockbox and getting the new laptop cleaned up |
05:46:27 | FlynDice | I'll just see if it helps for now... |
05:48:22 | FlynDice | Thats amazing that it will function at 24 mhz. |
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05:49:51 | funman | FlynDice: pclk (still at 60) can be different from fclk, but I booted with much lower freqs (down to 12MHz i think) |
05:49:57 | funman | (pclk freqs) |
05:51:59 | funman | I'm much more impressed by the impressive battery life |
05:53:17 | funman | If we can dump the as3514 (well as3517) registers when the OF is running it could point us to the "suck the battery juice" bit in AMSv1 |
05:56:37 | funman | btw kugel sent me a fuzev2 and i'll buy a clipv2 today so I'll have the 3 amsv2 targets to compare |
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06:00 |
06:00:18 | Falco98 | Torne: u around? |
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06:02:29 | Falco98 | hm. Can anyone tell me where I can download the 3.4 release? Everything I'm trying leads to dead-ends. It's not listed on the old releases archive page. |
06:02:50 | Falco98 | I'm trying to debug something, as I think 3.5 introduced a bug to the 5.5g ipod |
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06:05:51 | funman | Falco98: http://download.rockbox.org/release/ , but did you try a current build to see if the bug was still there? |
06:06:29 | Falco98 | i've just gone thru the current svn as well as 3.5.1, i had been running an unmodified version of 3.5.0, all three have the same issue |
06:06:40 | Falco98 | that's why i'm after 3.4, i don't remember having the problem prior to upgrading |
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06:07:08 | Falco98 | thx for the link... i hadn't found taht by searching any of the main pages |
06:07:38 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Falco98: What *is* the issue you're having? |
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06:08:28 | Falco98 | Plugging in USB from a powered-off state gets me only as far as the graphic of a USB cable with the words "multimedia mode" below it; no data connection is established with my PC though. |
06:09:15 | Falco98 | it used to show this graphic only for a moment before resetting into the "do not disconnect" screen (which seems to be from the original firmware, not sure). |
06:09:51 | Falco98 | in any case, I don't remember having this problem before upgrading (though I could be wrong, it could be a wonky ipod, hence why i'm checking) |
06:10:37 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Have you tried diasbling USB HID? |
06:10:58 | funman | and what OS is your PC running? |
06:11:09 | Falco98 | XP |
06:11:28 | Falco98 | saint, can you specify what HID is? |
06:11:39 | Falco98 | is that something i would disable on the PC end or on the ipod end? |
06:12:00 | S_a_i_n_t_ | settings/general settings/USB HID |
06:12:04 | S_a_i_n_t_ | *I think* |
06:12:08 | Falco98 | what is it? |
06:12:12 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Oh, and its on the ipod. |
06:12:17 | S_a_i_n_t_ | in rockbox settings |
06:12:34 | Falco98 | but like.. i mean, what's it do |
06:12:38 | Falco98 | (?) |
06:12:41 | S_a_i_n_t_ | It has something to do with how the ipod enumerates to the host. |
06:12:46 | Falco98 | gotcha |
06:12:52 | tomers | Falco98: I makes your DAP, when connected to USB, to not only be identified (enumerated) as a mass storage device (a.k.a disk-on-key...) |
06:13:06 | tomers | but also as a keyboard, and a mouse |
06:13:07 | Falco98 | well.. when this happens, it doesn't appear to get ANY data connection to the PC. at all. |
06:13:26 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Find it, check if its diasbled or not, if its not, diasble it and see if you can transer data/get a connection. |
06:13:28 | Falco98 | other times, like when it works "right", it has absolutely no issues. |
06:13:31 | Falco98 | sure. |
06:13:42 | Falco98 | well i just downgraded to 3.4 though, so i will explore that first :-P |
06:14:19 | tomers | then, when the DAP is connected to the computer, the player's buttons, which were once unusable, are now mapped to send keyboard strokes or mouse movements to the PC the player is connected to. e.g. pressing Vol+ on the player is like pressing Vol+ on a multimedia keyboard |
06:14:50 | Falco98 | oh... is that why, when i installed a daily build a few minutes ago, my PC popped up with a "new hardware found" wizard? |
06:14:58 | Falco98 | (and the ipod's status screen said "keypad mode") |
06:14:58 | S_a_i_n_t_ | I haven't heard of this on a 5.5G iPod, but the Nano2G has some pretty big issues with USB HID on for some people. |
06:15:08 | S_a_i_n_t_ | yep, that'll be it. |
06:15:14 | Falco98 | interesting. |
06:15:28 | tomers | some old operatin systems (OSX of some older version, which I can't remember) have bug in USB handling, which prevent the player from being attached to the computer. You must disable USB HID if you want to connect your player to a computer that runs on of these older operating systems |
06:15:31 | Falco98 | where would one get the drivers to satiate that NHFW though? |
06:15:35 | Falco98 | i had to cancel out of it |
06:16:06 | tomers | You don't need any 3rd party drivers |
06:16:11 | S_a_i_n_t_ | On my Nano1Gs, HID works fine...On the Nano2Gs I have, I can't turn HID on at all and establish a connection to the PC |
06:16:20 | tomers | The OS should use its default keyboard and mouse drivers |
06:16:38 | Falco98 | i might try it again at some point but it definitely refused to install automatically |
06:16:43 | Falco98 | but i also didn't try very hard |
06:16:54 | tomers | Maybe you should refresh the driver, i.e. delete the player in Device manager (Windows) and then disconnect and reconnect the player |
06:17:02 | Falco98 | like i didn't try selecting "automatically install" or anything, i just cancelled |
06:17:33 | S_a_i_n_t_ | tomers: I also get HID issues in XP, with the Nano2G. I just *can't* have HID turned on and still connect to the PC |
06:17:46 | tomers | AFAIK Nano2G is unstable, so think doesn't always work for it |
06:18:19 | Falco98 | sigh.. i hate putting so many shutdown/startup cycles on my poor ipod doing all this testing :-P |
06:18:23 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Yes, it is unstable...I *think* HID is disabled in the 2g Nano now anyway. |
06:18:27 | S_a_i_n_t_ | For that reason. |
06:18:41 | tomers | USB HID requires use of USB Interrupt transfers, which require that functionality to be implemented in the USB driver in Rockbox. I'm not sure this is implemented well for the nano 2g |
06:19:55 | Falco98 | crap.. 3.4 didn't solve my issue either :( |
06:20:03 | Falco98 | let me try disabling HID and see if that makes any difference |
06:20:56 | tomers | Falco98: Look at firmware/export/config.h:880 - USB_HAS_INTERRUPT is commented out −− seems to be broken |
06:21:24 | tomers | So I wonder how you have the USB HID option at all - it shouldn't be shown as it is disabled |
06:21:30 | tomers | unless you uncommented that line |
06:21:31 | Falco98 | i'm not finding it |
06:21:34 | Falco98 | no |
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06:21:56 | Falco98 | but still, when i plug in USB from a poweroff state, it comes up and only gets as far as that shiny picture of a USB plug |
06:22:17 | Falco98 | it never resets into the DND screen unless i unplug the usb cable (lol) |
06:22:32 | S_a_i_n_t_ | DND screen? |
06:22:38 | Falco98 | "do not disconnect" |
06:22:43 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Ahhh.. |
06:22:47 | Falco98 | the screen at which it makes a USB connection with the PC |
06:22:58 | Falco98 | i don't know the official name for it sry :-P |
06:23:51 | tomers | Falco98: Can you please answer these questions: How do you have HID in 2g Nano? It is disabled by default, since it is broken as of now. Did you change anything in the code? |
06:23:51 | | Quit FlynDice (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
06:23:54 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Isn't it *supposed* to go to the 'Rockbox USB Screen' on cable connect? |
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06:24:17 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Or is it still supposed to go into disk mode for the release builds? |
06:24:20 | Falco98 | tomers: I'm not sure I can answer that, since i'm running a 5.5g |
06:24:23 | Falco98 | 80gig |
06:24:52 | S_a_i_n_t_ | tomers: you're going off on a tangent man... |
06:24:58 | Falco98 | saint: i've always experienced it to go into disk mode. the "usb cable" screen doesn't give me any connectivity. |
06:25:07 | tomers | Falco98: sorry, I guess i got confused |
06:25:12 | S_a_i_n_t_ | I was just giving back-story on HID issues, using the Nano2g as an example. |
06:25:43 | Falco98 | no prob, i'm not exactly being uncomplicated about this |
06:26:12 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Falco98: can yout not find the HID settings? |
06:26:34 | Falco98 | i'm in 3.4 now - it doesn't seem to have an HID setting (as far as i can see?) |
06:27:26 | Falco98 | or, "yes" is my answer :-P |
06:27:32 | S_a_i_n_t_ | If it does, it'll be in "settings/General Settings/" |
06:27:37 | Falco98 | as in "yes, i cannot find them" |
06:27:53 | Falco98 | i see nothing naming "USB" at all in general settings. |
06:28:19 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Hmmmm, I thought that 3.4 had this as an available setting. |
06:28:25 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Must be wrong. |
06:28:58 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Besides the point however, in a release build it *should* be going into disk mode on cable connect. |
06:29:06 | Falco98 | yes |
06:30:40 | S_a_i_n_t_ | I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't to be honest, it may be a stupid question, but it is *definitely* a release build, and not a daily build...right? |
06:30:49 | Falco98 | i'm running 3.4 atm |
06:30:51 | Falco98 | so yes |
06:30:58 | tomers | Falco98, S_a_i_n_t_: I added the usb_hid setting in r23322 |
06:31:14 | Falco98 | when i plug usb in when it's already powered on, it gets to the disk mode screen with no problem |
06:31:33 | Falco98 | only from powered-off does it hang at the USB icon screen |
06:31:33 | tomers | r23322 | tomers | 2009-10-23 15:29:19 +0200 (Fri, 23 Oct 2009) |
06:31:45 | Falco98 | i'm starting to think, though, that this may just be my ipod being weird |
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06:32:04 | S_a_i_n_t_ | It doesn't seem like a hardware fault. |
06:32:05 | Falco98 | which is a little frustrating |
06:32:11 | Falco98 | yeah |
06:33:14 | Falco98 | oh, get this... when i installed torne's revision of the svn build, when i plugged in USB from an OFF state, i got the USB icon plus the song title from the WPS screen stayed on screen, and continued scrolling, in the middle of nowhere |
06:33:18 | S_a_i_n_t_ | I'm just not sure if its "desired behaviour" that the iPod should go into Rockbox's USB screen from connecting when the power is off or not. |
06:33:21 | Falco98 | i wanted to take a picture of it |
06:33:43 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Weird ;) |
06:33:46 | Falco98 | well i wouldn't mind it if it actually got a data connection with the USB screen |
06:34:40 | | Quit Boldfilter (Quit: Boldfilter) |
06:34:48 | S_a_i_n_t_ | My suggestion would be to go back to 3.5/3.5.1 (if you have the buffering issue) and see if disabling USB HID gives you connectivity in the Rockbox USB screen. |
06:35:10 | Falco98 | ok |
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06:39:17 | Falco98 | i think i'll use the modified version of 3.5.1 posted here though, http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=24376 |
06:39:50 | S_a_i_n_t_ | the startup issue fix? |
06:39:58 | S_a_i_n_t_ | s/startup/shutdown/ |
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06:40:20 | Falco98 | i thought startup was right |
06:40:34 | Falco98 | the issue was they intermittently refuse to start up without being hard reset |
06:40:43 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Well, they both are kinda |
06:40:44 | Falco98 | the original solution introduced some errors |
06:40:56 | Falco98 | i figured my current issue may have been introduced with the original workaround |
06:41:03 | Falco98 | as well as the Scion ipod dock issue |
06:41:04 | S_a_i_n_t_ | yes, however this fix seems *very* prominsing. |
06:41:39 | Falco98 | *crosses fingers* |
06:41:49 | | Quit arbingordon (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
06:41:52 | Falco98 | though i already tried this fix and my startup/usb issue seemed to remain :-P |
06:42:06 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25445): as3525v2: disable interrupts when writing to the PMU registers ... |
06:43:54 | S_a_i_n_t_ | This fix for the startup/shutdown issue is *completely* different to the initial one from the same thread. |
06:44:24 | S_a_i_n_t_ | And it seems to be working very well for those who are testing it currently, though I only know of two people doing so. |
06:44:39 | S_a_i_n_t_ | 3 now, counting yourself. |
06:44:48 | Falco98 | yeah |
06:45:12 | Falco98 | well other than the scion issue (and possibly this USB poweron issue) i'm not sure i had any problems with the original workaround |
06:45:20 | Falco98 | i never had the random-poweron issue as far as i know |
06:45:40 | Falco98 | but plugging it into the scion dock from a powered-off state got me a "connection error" message |
06:47:25 | S_a_i_n_t_ | I was right, USB HID *is* in Settings/General settings...just not in 3.4 ;) |
06:47:26 | S_a_i_n_t_ | http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch8.html#x11-1380008 |
06:47:28 | Falco98 | btw i still don't see USB HID in settings |
06:47:36 | Falco98 | i'm running 3.5.1 again |
06:47:39 | S_a_i_n_t_ | WHAT?!?!? |
06:47:53 | Falco98 | yeah |
06:47:58 | Falco98 | just confirmed thru system info |
06:48:41 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Something is messed up then...its in the manual for your device. |
06:49:25 | S_a_i_n_t_ | I'm just gonna check if its even defined anymore in current SVN |
06:50:20 | Falco98 | ok |
06:50:58 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Its definitly defined for the iPod video... |
06:51:00 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Hmmmmm |
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06:53:24 | Falco98 | BTW |
06:53:42 | S_a_i_n_t_ | ipodvideo.h/line 205 "#define HAVE_USB_HID_MOUSE" |
06:53:48 | Falco98 | is there some residual difference between letting it idle poweroff versus long-holding play? |
06:53:57 | S_a_i_n_t_ | So, it should be there. |
06:54:08 | S_a_i_n_t_ | And, no...I don;t think so. |
06:54:19 | Falco98 | k |
06:54:25 | S_a_i_n_t_ | It should be the same between idle poweroff/manual shutdown. |
06:54:34 | Falco98 | i'll tell you in a minute what happens when i plug this one in |
06:56:51 | Falco98 | grumble, it still hangs on the "multimedia mode" USB plug screen |
06:57:17 | S_a_i_n_t_ | And There's no setting for HID in Settings/General Settings? |
06:57:25 | S_a_i_n_t_ | it should be down the bpottom of the list. |
06:57:33 | S_a_i_n_t_ | bottom even. |
06:57:39 | Falco98 | well, i'll check again... |
06:58:57 | Falco98 | the last entry on the bottom is "Voice" |
06:59:19 | Falco98 | tell me if i'm on the wrong settings screen or something :-P |
06:59:23 | S_a_i_n_t_ | http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch8.html#x11-1380008 |
07:00 |
07:00:22 | S_a_i_n_t_ | you *should* have the setting "Hotkey" as the last in the list in that menu... |
07:00:26 | Falco98 | yeah, that's about what mine looks like.. |
07:00:27 | S_a_i_n_t_ | This is weird. |
07:00:43 | Falco98 | mine appears like that picture.. different theme of course |
07:00:49 | Falco98 | but same choices as far as i can see |
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07:01:10 | Falco98 | actually "playback settings" isn't in the list either |
07:01:27 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Right, Can you try deleting the .rockbox folder from the device completely? |
07:01:40 | S_a_i_n_t_ | and then start from fresh. |
07:01:42 | Falco98 | i guess |
07:01:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
07:01:51 | Falco98 | i'm not crazy about losing my configuration settings |
07:01:57 | Falco98 | i guess i'll reserve the .cfg file |
07:02:10 | S_a_i_n_t_ | yeah, just back up the .cfg |
07:03:30 | Falco98 | and what file can i keep if i don't wanna lose my running playlist? just playlist control? |
07:04:07 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Not sure about that one sorry. |
07:05:19 | Falco98 | k |
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07:12:49 | Falco98 | k, just did a completely virgin reinstall of 3.5.1 (with the new poweron fix) and still no USB HID in settings/general settings |
07:14:10 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Hmmmm, I'm fairly convinced it should be there. I *could* be wrong, but if I'm wrong, then the manual is too. |
07:14:40 | Falco98 | fwiw it's not in my simulator either |
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07:14:53 | Falco98 | and the version i have built is at least newer than 3.4, though maybe not as new as 3.5 |
07:16:12 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Torne would probably be the man to speak to here, I'm pretty much out of ideas :\ |
07:16:23 | Falco98 | i can check the svn if you like |
07:17:22 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Current builds handle the USB screen differently IIRC |
07:17:41 | S_a_i_n_t_ | they will *always* go to the "rockbox USB screen" on cable insert |
07:18:06 | S_a_i_n_t_ | whereas, release builds AFAIK will go to diskmode of cable insert. |
07:18:18 | S_a_i_n_t_ | s/of/on/ |
07:20:59 | Falco98 | that's what i seem to have seen |
07:21:24 | Falco98 | though iirc the svn build i tried, when plugging usb from poweroff, still didn't get data connectivity |
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07:23:44 | Falco98 | hmm |
07:24:02 | Falco98 | 3.5.1 just went to disk mode correctly after plugin |
07:24:07 | Falco98 | that's cool |
07:24:22 | Falco98 | i seem to have completely fracked my settings tho :-P |
07:24:38 | S_a_i_n_t_ | didn't you save your .cfg? |
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07:25:46 | Falco98 | i don't think i properly transferred the auxiliary folders like fonts, icons, etc |
07:26:00 | Falco98 | and the playlist control file i guess is touchy enough it refuses to be transferred |
07:26:07 | Falco98 | but i can live with that one |
07:26:40 | saratoga_lab | run scandisk |
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07:28:32 | Falco98 | saratoga_lab: can i use the windows gui one? |
07:28:59 | funman | yep, scandisk is the gui |
07:29:29 | Falco98 | well, i consider scandisk to be an old dos command-line deal |
07:29:45 | Falco98 | the win gui is called "error checking" or something |
07:29:53 | Falco98 | it came up clean, as far as i can tell |
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07:37:55 | Falco98 | still no USB HID... i think that may only be in the SVN |
07:38:44 | Falco98 | cold-plugging again, just to test.... |
07:38:48 | Falco98 | *holding breath* |
07:38:51 | Falco98 | yay |
07:38:59 | Falco98 | it worked |
07:39:14 | Falco98 | so my ipod *isn't* broken :-P |
07:42:55 | | Quit saratoga_lab (Quit: Page closed) |
07:42:56 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25446): as3525v2: acknowledge USB connection/deconnection in SD thread ... |
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07:43:20 | Falco98 | what's that commit, funman? |
07:43:41 | funman | Falco98: ? |
07:43:43 | Falco98 | [or, any relation to what we've been talking about here?] |
07:43:46 | funman | no |
07:43:49 | Falco98 | ah k |
07:44:06 | funman | as3525v2 is the chip of a series of Sandisk players |
07:44:14 | saratoga_lab | "Fuzev2" |
07:45:46 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25447): Clipv2: reboot to OF when USB is inserted |
07:47:19 | funman | still can't get fuzev2 FM to work :( |
07:47:53 | Falco98 | i just updated my ipod to the svn build, i now have an entry for "hotkey" at the bottom of settings/general |
07:47:56 | funman | OF FM code is a bit different between AMSv1 and v2 so I have to do some work ^^ |
07:48:39 | Falco98 | ohh.. USB HID is under the "system" submenu |
07:48:41 | Falco98 | d'oh |
07:49:07 | S_a_i_n_t_ | weird...it seems things have been moved around a bit. |
07:49:11 | Falco98 | yeah |
07:49:16 | Falco98 | there's a big submenu now |
07:49:27 | saratoga_lab | theres also a manual with these things in it . . . |
07:49:32 | Falco98 | the whole "settings / system" folder has been moved it seems |
07:49:35 | S_a_i_n_t_ | *Now* try disabling HID, and see if you get connectivity with the rockbox usb screen ;) |
07:49:41 | Falco98 | lol.. |
07:49:47 | Falco98 | actually i'm gonna try it as-is first |
07:49:59 | Falco98 | when i tried my virgin 3.5.1 install it started working again |
07:50:05 | S_a_i_n_t_ | saratoga_lab: the manual is what led us astray here. |
07:50:09 | Falco98 | (that was 3.5.1 with torne's fix) |
07:50:15 | saratoga_lab | how so? |
07:50:19 | Falco98 | yeah, the manual is wrong :-P |
07:50:21 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Its incorrect. |
07:50:23 | Falco98 | or, not up-to-date |
07:50:59 | saratoga_lab | about what? |
07:51:04 | S_a_i_n_t_ | It seems as though Settings/General settings has had a shuffle around, and the manual hasn't. |
07:51:25 | Falco98 | my HID devices just installed |
07:52:07 | Falco98 | yeah, like settings / system is now under settings / general |
07:53:42 | saratoga_lab | isn't that what the manual says? |
07:54:08 | Falco98 | hrm |
07:54:13 | Falco98 | now that you say it that way... |
07:57:10 | Falco98 | i kinda wish they'd make the USB mode screen acknowledge when the ipod's been unmounted from the system |
07:57:29 | saratoga_lab | i'm not sure thats even possible |
07:57:32 | Falco98 | at least so we know the disk is unmounted... it still seems to work as a mouse |
07:57:45 | Falco98 | maybe not, but in the OF disk mode it knows when it's been unmounted |
07:57:52 | Falco98 | the message changes to "ok to disconnect" |
07:57:54 | funman | no |
07:58:01 | funman | it knows when it's been ejected, not unmounted |
07:58:04 | Falco98 | sorry |
07:58:12 | Falco98 | s/unmounted/ejected/ then |
07:58:29 | Falco98 | i thought ejecting a disk was another word for unmounting it |
07:59:05 | funman | on linux at least, if i unmount the device is still present and can be remounted, if i eject it disappears and i have to disconnect/reconnect to see it again |
07:59:16 | Falco98 | ah k |
08:00 |
08:05:40 | Falco98 | so i guess it should be noted that anyone experiencing any weird poweron / usb plug-in issues should try a virgin install... my issues seem to have been cleared up by doing so. |
08:06:40 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Awesome, I kinda had a feeling there was some orphaned files in there somewhere |
08:06:51 | S_a_i_n_t_ | or files left over from a previous revision. |
08:06:59 | Falco98 | yeah |
08:07:14 | Falco98 | also i figure 3.5.1 may not have the hid setting because it will not ever work as a hid |
08:07:23 | S_a_i_n_t_ | How exactly were/are you transferring ".rockbox" to your DAP? |
08:07:48 | Falco98 | windows (file) explorer |
08:08:10 | Falco98 | generally dragging the new .rockbox folder into the root dir of the player and selecting "overwrite all" |
08:08:22 | Falco98 | which is pretty much word-for-word what the manual says to do to upgrade |
08:08:27 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Yes, but I mean are you using "Extract To..." or copying the files somewhere, then moving them to the device |
08:08:46 | S_a_i_n_t_ | The manual states "Extract To" |
08:08:48 | Falco98 | my default zip program is winrar, which extracts to a temp directory itself before moving the files to the target |
08:08:55 | S_a_i_n_t_ | there is less room for error this way. |
08:09:20 | * | S_a_i_n_t_ suggests using 7zip |
08:09:26 | S_a_i_n_t_ | (its WAY better) ;) |
08:09:30 | Falco98 | maybe, but with winrar i expect it's a lot more error-proof... i can try 7zip too |
08:10:02 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
08:10:45 | Falco98 | also there should be a warning for people newly upgrading to a HID-enabled version that the first time they plug into USB they will be greeted with New Hardware Wizard screens |
08:11:04 | Falco98 | i notice that you can just pick "no" and then "automatically" and the driver installations are straightforward |
08:11:15 | Falco98 | but someone not expecting this may think it's an error |
08:11:47 | S_a_i_n_t_ | It *should* handle the installation itself |
08:12:01 | Falco98 | it did not go automatically |
08:12:15 | Falco98 | if you're referring to the windows-side driver installations |
08:12:32 | S_a_i_n_t_ | I've never had to click yes/no to install anything, just "found new hardware, Your hardware is installed and ready to use" |
08:12:33 | Falco98 | i had to manually* install a mouse and keyboard driver |
08:12:50 | Falco98 | (manually, as in, check "automatically" and then "next") |
08:12:56 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Weird, I'm on XP pro, and it does it automatically for me. |
08:13:28 | Falco98 | XP pro here as well |
08:13:41 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Found new hardware (HID compliant *whatever*), your hardware is installed and ready to use"...that simple. |
08:13:55 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Weird yours goes differently. |
08:14:11 | Falco98 | i'll try on my laptops later and get back to you on how they act |
08:14:17 | Falco98 | one is XP home and the other is XP pro |
08:14:34 | Falco98 | and on my living room pc i have a hacked version of XP pro, it may act yet differently :-P |
08:16:08 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Perhaps I already had the driver installed, well...it shouldn't *need* to install a driver IIUC, it should already be there, windows just needs to find it. |
08:16:34 | Falco98 | yeah |
08:16:44 | Falco98 | it's a little inaccurate of me to say "install" a driver |
08:16:47 | Falco98 | that's just what it feels like |
08:16:53 | Falco98 | i have to direct it, let's say |
08:17:01 | saratoga_lab | most likely what happened was that you had a corrupted files system, and then fixed it with check disk |
08:17:07 | Falco98 | luckily it was painless after hitting "go" |
08:17:10 | S_a_i_n_t_ | Ahhh, but still, I've never even had to do that much. |
08:17:10 | saratoga_lab | that allowed you to update rockbox properly |
08:17:35 | saratoga_lab | does anyone have a D2? |
08:17:52 | saratoga_lab | i'm trying to make sense of the ClipV2 test_codec results and want to see what the D2 gives |
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08:18:50 | | Quit S_a_i_n_t_ (Quit: PC needs a restart...Dagnabbit!) |
08:19:35 | funman | mrobe500 & zenvision (and lyreproto) have the same CPU |
08:19:58 | saratoga_lab | the D2 as well |
08:20:04 | saratoga_lab | ah i see what you mean |
08:20:06 | saratoga_lab | yes any will do |
08:20:48 | saratoga_lab | on my clipv2, MP3, WMA and Vorbis all come in within 1MHz of each other at 192k |
08:21:18 | Falco98 | for some reason my dynamic playlist keeps getting hosed after i manually shutdown, even though afaik it shouldn't be |
08:21:55 | funman | saratoga_lab: test_codec might be a good tool to measure DRAM/IRAM speed |
08:22:13 | saratoga_lab | add a test ram option? |
08:22:35 | funman | no i mean modifying .lds to use IRAM or not |
08:22:59 | funman | not sure if it would be noticeable, will try later today |
08:25:11 | saratoga_lab | ah good idea |
08:25:30 | saratoga_lab | i wonder if theres any parallelism available if you alternate accesses between the two memory blocks |
08:25:40 | saratoga_lab | like put code in one, data in the other |
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08:27:02 | funman | hm all the ape test files are too big for 8MB of ram |
08:27:11 | saratoga_lab | ha |
08:27:49 | saratoga_lab | looking at the fuze and nano2g benchmarks, I wonder if the difference between PP and AMSv2 is that the ability to do fast loads without using LDM helps a lot in the mp3 filterbank |
08:28:03 | saratoga_lab | actually i'm sure it helps a lot but i'm surprised it would make that much of a difference |
08:28:47 | saratoga_lab | that doesn't explain why the fuzev1 is so amazingly slow compared to the amsv2 though |
08:29:03 | saratoga_lab | the better multiplier shouldn't make such a huge difference on its own |
08:30:16 | funman | but PP has the COP so that makes a lot of difference? |
08:30:19 | saratoga_lab | bah why do we even include the ape c5000 test track all it does is make running all the test tracks take 2x as long |
08:30:27 | saratoga_lab | yes i'm comparing to PP without COP |
08:30:48 | funman | hmm COP is only used for mp3, right? |
08:30:59 | saratoga_lab | i added the COP optimization after i decided it was going to be way more work then i wanted to write a faster mp3 filterbank :) |
08:31:06 | saratoga_lab | MP3 and SPC only i think |
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08:45:32 | saratoga_lab | huh on the gigabeat f, MP3 really performs little different then on PP even though its arm9 |
08:46:06 | saratoga_lab | which seems to suggest that its not the improved load/store unit making the difference |
08:46:41 | saratoga_lab | unless the F is somehow deficient in some other way |
08:48:38 | funman | if i reduce CODEC_SIZE from 1MB to 768kB all codecs still build (not sure if the ones using malloc run though) |
08:50:20 | amiconn | iirc the problem is the vorbis codec and very long files |
08:51:08 | saratoga_lab | amiconn: AAC and very long files |
08:51:17 | amiconn | Vorbis uses malloc, and the amount of memory it needs depends on track length |
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08:51:30 | saratoga_lab | vorbis has another problem with floor 0 files, but its unrelated to length |
08:51:37 | amiconn | ah |
08:51:41 | saratoga_lab | and probably solved now, at least for buffer sizes much above 500KB |
08:51:51 | funman | hm with my diff files still play but test_codec only shows "0 of 0" and doesn't answer |
08:52:03 | saratoga_lab | AAC is the only reason we can't have 512KB codec memory on all targets now |
08:52:36 | saratoga_lab | funman: on the amsv2? |
08:52:52 | funman | yeah, i might have missed something when putting the whole codec in iram though |
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08:52:57 | saratoga_lab | on v1 it always runs with 320KB of codec memory so I don't know why 768k would be a problem |
08:53:20 | funman | only for Clip/c200/m200 which have 2MB of memory |
08:53:53 | saratoga_lab | so the IRAM defines actually do something on the Fuzev1? |
08:54:17 | funman | iram attributes work and some code/data is put in IRAM |
08:54:41 | funman | on Clipv1 we put the whole codec in iram already so we disable enable iram attributes only for the core |
08:54:57 | funman | iram is split in two: 1 part for core functions, the rest for the full codec |
08:55:07 | saratoga_lab | how much for the codec? |
08:55:45 | funman | 0x48000 = 288kB |
08:56:14 | saratoga_lab | thats pretty impressive that basically everything seems to work with such a small codec memory |
08:56:24 | saratoga_lab | we really need to fix aac so we can reclaim all that lost buffer space |
08:59:35 | | Quit linuxstb (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
09:00 |
09:00:01 | funman | hm my fuzev1 died when doing the folder speed test |
09:00:43 | funman | and the problem with fuzev2 is metadata i think: get_metadata() returns 0 length |
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09:10:38 | funman | hm can't tell what's wrong: boosting only after reading meta has no effect, and it's read correctly when I look at the WPS |
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09:26:05 | Luca_S | fuzev2 battery benching: just passed 9hrs, still running |
09:26:20 | funman | on Clip+ 60MHz -> 24MHz gives at least 1 more hour (16h30 and counting) |
09:28:37 | funman | sandisk advertises the Fuze battery life as 24 hours |
09:28:55 | funman | "approximate value for 4 minutes songs at 128kbps" |
09:29:33 | Luca_S | it's consistent with my experience - about 3 workdays of 8hrs each |
09:29:35 | funman | alright Clip+ just stopped at 16h30 |
09:29:42 | pixelma | soap: sixthofmay the one with the big SSD in the X5? I took part in that thread but didn't receive a PM |
09:29:44 | saratoga_lab | cool |
09:29:58 | saratoga_lab | updated the codec page with gigabeat f results (arm920t) |
09:30:00 | Luca_S | I noticed that when OF said battery 100%, RB said battery ~95%. when we'll have write support a real battery bench will be necessary, isn'it? |
09:31:10 | saratoga_lab | vorbis and wma require more Mhz to decode, but MP3 requires the same, consistent with the amsv1 results |
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09:32:29 | saratoga_lab | the gigabeat F and Fuzev1 perform almost identically |
09:34:14 | funman | Luca_S: probably, i'm a bit lost with battery code |
09:35:54 | funman | hm 24MHz is too slow on Fuzev2 |
09:38:24 | funman | wheel is much less responsive |
09:38:48 | Luca_S | kugel said earlier that he found a way to get wheel data using irq instead of polling |
09:38:56 | Luca_S | maybe it would help in lowering the clock? |
09:39:05 | funman | perhaps |
09:40:34 | saratoga_lab | make it clip only and then let kugel figure out if its worth having on the fuze |
09:40:47 | saratoga_lab | the bigger screen may make 24Mhz a little slow on the fuze |
09:41:23 | saratoga_lab | shouldn't be a problem on the clip though |
09:41:29 | funman | true |
09:42:04 | Luca_S | this clock change affects playback pitch? |
09:42:18 | saratoga_lab | no |
09:42:40 | funman | e200v1 is at 24MHz/30MHz though and it has the same screen size |
09:42:57 | saratoga_lab | the e200v1 runs at 30Mhz while playing |
09:43:05 | saratoga_lab | 24 is just the idle clock which is basically never used |
09:43:21 | saratoga_lab | fwiw I think its fine at 24 mhz, only minor slowness in menus |
09:43:38 | saratoga_lab | but thats a matter of disagreement on PP |
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09:48:46 | amiconn | Idle (default) clock is used in the radio screen. The PP sansas do have a radio |
09:49:02 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25448): Clipv2/Clip+: lower DEFAULT/NORMAL frequency from 60MHz to 24MHz ... |
09:50:58 | funman | 100% of clipv1 users never experience playback crashes |
09:51:17 | funman | statistics on a sample of 3 users |
09:51:44 | saratoga_lab | before i fixed runtime estimation i put roughly 200 hours on mine without a crash |
09:52:18 | funman | i think we should move it to stable for next release |
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09:57:42 | Llorean | I haven't had playback crashes since the fix for them on the ClipV1, but I also only used it very heavily for about two weeks after the chance. |
10:00 |
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11:03:47 | JdGordon | my CF ipod mini2g got 18hr sitting in the menu (with the inbuilt bar being used) which is curious |
11:03:55 | JdGordon | it got 18hr sitting in the WPS last week |
11:04:01 | JdGordon | same revision and album |
11:04:25 | JdGordon | im going to do one more bench sunday night in a screen without the skin engine running at all |
11:06:03 | saratoga_lab | JdGordon: don't we disable updating the WPS if the screen is off? |
11:06:13 | JdGordon | not on the mini2g |
11:06:21 | JdGordon | its screenis perfectly visible with the backlight off |
11:06:25 | saratoga_lab | ah ok |
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11:06:56 | JdGordon | I was more interested in the time difference because it used to add about an hour of batt life if you stayed in the menu instead of the wps |
11:07:07 | JdGordon | this is before we disabled updating when the lcd is off |
11:07:13 | JdGordon | so should be even more now |
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11:20:45 | TheSeven | hey, i have a crazy idea :-) |
11:20:48 | TheSeven | who says that rockbox can only do sound? |
11:20:49 | TheSeven | let's make it do *light*! |
11:20:54 | TheSeven | ever thought about a DAP driving some DMX lights? |
11:22:00 | JdGordon | are you drunk? :) |
11:23:40 | saratoga_lab | theres not all that many output pins available on most players, so an arm dev board might work better |
11:24:02 | TheSeven | there's the UART on the ipod dock connector... |
11:24:32 | saratoga_lab | if you're hooking up another CPU to the dock, why not just do everything on the other cpu? |
11:24:34 | TheSeven | driving DMX using that should be piece of cake :-) |
11:24:42 | TheSeven | no, we don |
11:24:50 | * | TheSeven swears at his ' |
11:24:57 | saratoga_lab | your device talks over serial already? |
11:24:58 | TheSeven | no, we don't need an external CPU |
11:25:12 | TheSeven | DMX is basically symmetric RS485 at 250kbaud |
11:25:30 | saratoga_lab | ah then thats easy enough |
11:27:04 | TheSeven | making it drive moving lights would of course be insane - you need proper means of manual control to do that - but driving an audio-synced chase on some pars for a smaller party should work just fine :-) |
11:29:04 | pixelma | AlexP: do I remember correctly that it was you who had to additionally install the xcolor package for the tex environment? |
11:30:02 | AlexP | pixelma: No, it is those on Debian/Ubuntu |
11:30:38 | AlexP | (I'm on Arch) |
11:31:04 | AlexP | But it was me who added the use of xcolor and added the note to the wiki about maybe needing it |
11:31:11 | AlexP | Other distros might as well of course |
11:31:23 | AlexP | It depends how modularly tex is packaged |
11:31:36 | pixelma | ah, so you're saying it is missing for the people on Debian/Ubuntu? Is it really called xcolor or part of some texlive-dev or so? |
11:32:10 | AlexP | The package is "latex-xcolor" |
11:32:40 | AlexP | For Debian/Ubuntu anyway |
11:33:09 | pixelma | ok, thanks.. found it just now on ManualHowto even though I looked at that page before :\ |
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11:34:25 | AlexP | It is a standard package, but whether you need to explicity install it for your distro depends on how they packaged it |
11:35:25 | pixelma | it wasn't needed on cygwin btw... but that doesn't have a tex4ht package and I couldn't figure out how to install it manually (quite some time ago) |
11:35:26 | AlexP | Yeah, I think we checked cygwin at the time (when the dependency was added) |
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11:37:09 | stripwax | While playing a playlist, I did an Insert Last from file browser to append something else to my playlist, but when I looked at my Buffering Status in debug, I saw the buffer had been reduced to just the current playing track, and cpu was stuck boosted. It stayed like that until the current playing track finished playing (and the buffer drained), and at that point is refilled the entire buffer normally. But is that expected behaviour? |
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11:37:24 | stripwax | s/is/it |
11:38:39 | JdGordon | cpu was stuck boosted? or boosted because of the codec? |
11:38:39 | stripwax | stuck. |
11:38:39 | stripwax | codec is vorbis, so about 10% boost. after the Insert Last, the freq was stuck at 80Mhz |
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11:39:31 | funman | just got the Clipv2 |
11:39:48 | catfish | hi, i have checked the buyers guide as well as the FAQ but I couldnt find any player that is available shops |
11:40:29 | stripwax | I've occasionally seen this behaviour both with and without fs#11141 |
11:41:51 | stripwax | But it doesn't seem to be guaranteed reproducible |
11:41:52 | | Join banan_ [0] (~banan@c-62-220-165-110.cust.bredband2.com) |
11:41:52 | catfish | I'm looking for something like ipod nano - any recommentations? |
11:41:52 | linuxstb | A used ipod nano? (1st or 2nd generation) |
11:41:52 | stripwax | catfish - ipod nano? via ebay etc? |
11:41:52 | | Quit banan_ (Client Quit) |
11:42:44 | catfish | i checked ibay also - but there is only one very used one available |
11:45:04 | catfish | are you working on the newer nano ones? |
11:45:04 | linuxstb | The Sansa e200s or fuze (v1) are similar to the Nano. i.e. flash-based. But they also have FM radio and a microSD card slot. |
11:45:04 | catfish | will have a look on ebay for the fuze |
11:45:04 | | Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)) |
11:45:44 | | Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
11:45:48 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25449): Clipv2: enable USB stack (and use correct product ID) |
11:45:55 | linuxstb | No-one is working on the newer Nanos at the moment. I would expect Rockbox to support them at some point in time, but even if someone started working on them today, it's likely to be at least 6 months until they're working well. |
11:46:23 | catfish | thx |
11:46:31 | funman | looks like CPU frequency change broke recording on all as3525v2 |
11:46:46 | catfish | are you working on any other ones which arent EOL? |
11:47:04 | linuxstb | The newer versions of the Sansa Clip |
11:47:17 | linuxstb | And I think the newer version of the Fuze. |
11:47:33 | linuxstb | But I don't know how close they are to becoming usable. |
11:49:31 | | Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org) |
11:51:07 | | Quit liar (Quit: Verlassend) |
11:53:24 | bertrik | A still-playing dynamic playlist is saved on shutdown, but a finished dynamic playlist is not, is that correct? |
11:53:39 | S_a_i_n_t | I *think* so... |
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11:55:30 | catfish | are there any difference between the 4GB verison of the fuze, or are they all v1? |
11:55:31 | catfish | i guess 8GB is above v1 |
11:58:25 | bertrik | S_a_i_n_t, I guess that complicates the recent mailing list discussion about rewinding the playlist after completion a bit |
11:58:42 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
11:59:26 | S_a_i_n_t | I wouldn't know sorry, I've alway *meant* to sign up to the mailing list, but I'm pretty much always here so I figure I don't miss much. |
12:00 |
12:00:15 | S_a_i_n_t | All I know is that I'm pretty sure a dynamic playlist gets trashed on shutdown if its finished playing. |
12:00:28 | S_a_i_n_t | But I may however, be quite wrong about this ;) |
12:02:09 | linuxstb | catfish: This page (and the pages linked from it) may help you with the newer Sansa devices - http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMS |
12:02:45 | catfish | thx |
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12:03:37 | funman | catfish: you can know the fuze version only by powering it and looking for the firmware version in the menu (it starts by v1 or v2) |
12:04:47 | catfish | funman, i don't own one - I'm just figuring out which on I'll order |
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12:05:21 | | Quit JdGordon (Quit: Leaving.) |
12:05:29 | funman | that's what I mean: you can't order a Fuze "v1" or "v2" unless the seller looked in the menu, and told you the version (without lying) |
12:06:28 | bertrik | S_a_i_n_t, the discussion was basically about a patch that allows the playlist to be rewinded after completion. If a completed playlist is thrashed, it makes things like that a little harder. |
12:07:16 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
12:07:41 | kugel | funman: 24MHz can't be the problem, the UI doesn't need more than a few MHz - if at all |
12:07:58 | S_a_i_n_t | bertrik: wouldn't "repeat all" do the same thing...? |
12:08:00 | Unhelpful | funman: certain sellers have carried refurb e200 players that they knew to be v1. don't know if the same has happened to fuze yet, maybe not as it's not supported and those sellers were using the v1 label as a feature (rockbox ready)? |
12:08:12 | kugel | the slowness must be caused by something else; maybe memory clock or dbop clock? |
12:08:38 | Unhelpful | S_a_i_n_t: i think we mean rewind/skip back, not "start over" |
12:08:39 | funman | afaiu only the CPU clock should be changed there |
12:08:40 | bertrik | S_a_i_n_t, no, that rewinds the playlist AND continues playing |
12:09:16 | kugel | I doubt it |
12:09:24 | funman | kugel: i thought perhaps using interrupt based scrollwheel reading would give a better clue |
12:09:24 | S_a_i_n_t | ahhhh, i getcha now. |
12:09:43 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmmm. Pass *shrugs* |
12:09:50 | kugel | the UI is sluggish at 60MHz too, that freq works just fine on the as3525v1 |
12:10:17 | funman | Unhelpful: ah there is a website which sells rockboxed e200v2/fuzev1 , targetting blind users. |
12:10:35 | kugel | funman: I tried it tonight, it doesn't change the sluggishness |
12:10:50 | Unhelpful | funman: i was more thinking of sellers like froobi... and i thought fuzev1 was not officially supported yet? |
12:10:57 | kugel | I think the whole UI is slow not just the scrollwheel |
12:11:13 | funman | did you try test_fps ? |
12:11:23 | funman | Unhelpful: it is since 3.5 |
12:11:47 | Unhelpful | funman: shows what attention i pay lately :/ |
12:13:32 | kugel | funman: 9fps :\ |
12:13:48 | kugel | (at 24MHz) |
12:14:29 | * | bertrik has a look at the fuze v2 display driver |
12:14:48 | funman | clipv2 uses dbop too, i'll try to see what it gets |
12:14:54 | kugel | funman: almost 100fps at 240MHz (which is also not overly fast) |
12:15:14 | funman | are fps linear with CPU freq? |
12:15:20 | linuxstb | kugel: That's the fuzev2? |
12:15:21 | kugel | no |
12:15:31 | kugel | the fuzev1 gets 100fps at 62MHz already |
12:15:49 | kugel | linuxstb: yes |
12:17:30 | kugel | funman: what is the pclk at ? |
12:18:22 | bertrik | I guess pclk cannot ever be higher than the processor clock |
12:19:41 | bertrik | The theoretical maximum display fps of the fuze would be about 38 fps at 24 MHz DBOP clock |
12:21:37 | kugel | that would be plenty |
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12:26:23 | kugel | funman: does the datasheet of the newer ams chip describe the new cgu_dbop bits? |
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12:37:10 | | Join pamaury [0] (~c2c7a50a@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
12:40:00 | kugel | bertrik: we reach the maximum on fuzev1 relatively easily; not at all on fuzev2 though |
12:41:42 | JdGordon1 | kugel: what backdrop issues are there with the skin engine? |
12:41:50 | JdGordon1 | and whats the story with dynamic load sizeing? |
12:43:05 | kugel | changing from the main menu to the wps (or back) is always a bit glitchy: flickering and the backdrop doesn't change instantly; also in the wps there are left overs from scrolling lines that appear before the album art show |
12:43:52 | JdGordon1 | is it on flyspray? |
12:43:58 | kugel | no |
12:44:50 | S_a_i_n_t | If i use "clear backdrop", when i try to set a new backdrop using the context menu, I gt "backdrop failed" 9 tims out of ten. |
12:45:04 | S_a_i_n_t | s/gt/get/ |
12:45:30 | S_a_i_n_t | dammit...s/tims/times/ |
12:48:47 | | Quit Zarggg (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
12:57:25 | JdGordon1 | interesting.... if you play a new dirplay playlist while paused it doesnt unpause? |
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13:00 |
13:01:13 | funman | kugel: I only have the as3531 datasheet, the SoC is completely different, the only useful source of information is the overall description and address of *some* as3543 registers, and this doesn't include the descriptions of individual bits of these registers |
13:01:50 | kugel | the linux patch doesn't have cgu_* anymore it seems |
13:01:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
13:01:57 | funman | on as353x ? |
13:02:02 | kugel | yea |
13:02:08 | kugel | not cgu_dbop at least |
13:02:41 | kugel | maybe the new bits are some clock source selector |
13:02:53 | funman | no indeed, the only similarities between as353x and the Clipv2/+ and Fuzev2 are: the as3543 i2c audio/pmu chip, the SD controller and perhaps the USB controller |
13:03:20 | funman | i'll send you the datasheet |
13:03:37 | kugel | well if it's not helpful I don't need it :) |
13:03:58 | kugel | but sure, I can take a look |
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13:05:44 | pamaury | funman: Well I'll start reading the usb code of as353x, can I create a page on wiki ? Is there any problem in publishing those information (not the code) ? |
13:06:00 | funman | no |
13:06:14 | funman | well: yes you can, no there is no problems |
13:08:46 | kugel | the backlight_on failure in the wps seems to be related to fading. without fading it works |
13:09:29 | funman | even with r25445 ? |
13:09:56 | kugel | yes |
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13:20:38 | kugel | funman: I assume either the dbop or the ram is too slow at 24 (and even at 60) MHz, or both |
13:23:46 | funman | testing ram should be easy, just loop for N ticks reading or writing some array |
13:24:39 | kugel | heh, the debug screen shows audio can be managed at 24MHz just fine, but if I increase the update rate by holding select it cannot manage it anymore :) |
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13:25:54 | funman | hm the codec should boost when appropriate so it would show display update slowness |
13:26:07 | funman | do you have an e200v1? (which runs at 30MHz) |
13:26:13 | kugel | yes |
13:26:20 | kugel | no problem there |
13:27:10 | kugel | 24MHz is also fine on it |
13:27:33 | funman | even with holding select? |
13:28:26 | kugel | yes |
13:29:20 | kugel | well, it boosts sometimes instead of never but the pcm never goes empty |
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13:31:46 | kugel | hm, the fuzev2 doesn't seem to boost when the pcm empties |
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13:34:10 | kugel | that's strange |
13:36:00 | kugel | the lcd performance scales lineary with the cpu clock |
13:36:15 | kugel | that shouldn't happen :\ the dbop should limit |
13:36:59 | gevaerts | AlexP: try FS #11167 |
13:37:34 | gevaerts | I don't think it's the font loading that's hurting you on the beast |
13:38:08 | AlexP | OK, will do (after some lunch :)) |
13:39:08 | JdGordon1 | font loading could be better though... |
13:39:22 | JdGordon1 | AlexP: pixelma: so what are we going to do about fm skinning? |
13:40:03 | AlexP | JdGordon1: It is fine for me on both beast and H100 (with a bigger buffer) - wasn't the argument that the bufer resizing stuff should go in first? |
13:40:20 | JdGordon1 | yes, but there has been no news on that either |
13:41:42 | AlexP | Well it is up to you - the fms stuff seems great, so I guess the options are either up the grey/mono buffer and stick it in, or try and fix the buffer resizing stuff |
13:42:32 | JdGordon1 | how much bigger is needed? |
13:43:07 | | Part nik1 |
13:44:03 | AlexP | quite a bit, for me it is the use of multifont that pushes it up |
13:44:12 | AlexP | I think I needed to change it to 8x or so |
13:44:28 | AlexP | gevaerts: I guess dircaqche makes even more sense given I have a 120 GB in the S |
13:44:39 | AlexP | add "disk" somewhere |
13:46:09 | gevaerts | AlexP: You mean to blame, or to enable? |
13:46:18 | AlexP | to blame |
13:46:44 | gevaerts | yes, unless of course you despise flac and use wav instead |
13:46:56 | AlexP | even worse, mp3/ogg |
13:47:01 | AlexP | and it is nearly full |
13:47:32 | AlexP | anyway, I'll try the patch shortly |
13:47:39 | gevaerts | Of course on the beast you don't really notice a minute more or less given the speed of the OF boot part |
13:48:14 | AlexP | I have single boot |
13:48:18 | AlexP | SO I do notice :) |
13:51:40 | gevaerts | Anyone around with a reasonably large and full flash based player? |
13:56:47 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
13:57:20 | pamaury | I have a clip+ with less than an hundred MiB. I also have my e200 which is not full but I can put all my music on it to make it full :) |
13:57:30 | pamaury | *+free |
13:58:01 | JdGordon1 | gevaerts: CF count? |
13:59:02 | JdGordon1 | for the io priorities, wouldnt it make more sense to tie it in with the thread priotiry instead of the somwhat hacky way of the patch? |
13:59:34 | gevaerts | CF would count I guess. I just want to see if there's some effect |
13:59:41 | JdGordon1 | with some way to raise/loawer the io prio? |
13:59:59 | pamaury | What is CF ? |
14:00 |
14:00:03 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: how would you actually schedule IO? |
14:00:06 | JdGordon1 | compact flash |
14:00:21 | pamaury | gevaerts: what do you want to test ? |
14:00:33 | JdGordon1 | umm, same way as cpu? |
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14:01:21 | gevaerts | pamaury: I want to see if FS #11167 makes a difference on flash, i.e. enable dircache, see how long the boot takes, see how fast (subjectively) playback starts, apply the patch, see if it changes |
14:01:43 | pamaury | ok |
14:02:41 | JdGordon1 | adding a splash would be much better than subjective timing |
14:02:48 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: that means replacing the locks in block drivers by queues. Do we really want that? |
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14:03:12 | gevaerts | Yes, or a bootchart line where playback actually starts, and setting the start screen to WPS |
14:03:56 | JdGordon1 | ~5s from press to music with dircache on (svn) |
14:04:12 | | Quit TheSeven (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]) |
14:04:33 | JdGordon1 | absolutly no change with dricache off |
14:04:40 | JdGordon1 | mini2g+CF |
14:05:19 | pamaury | bootchart is in svn now ? |
14:06:00 | JdGordon1 | i tihnk so, those numbers are subjective, not bootchart |
14:06:22 | JdGordon1 | AlexP: multifont isnt useable on ggrey/mono now right? |
14:08:13 | JdGordon1 | I wonder if we should add 20K to every target to fit two skin fonts in, that shold then make fms fit also |
14:08:32 | JdGordon1 | and also encourage dynamic sizing to get finished |
14:08:50 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: maybe a stupid question, but is the 10K per font fixed? What if you load a smaller font? |
14:08:59 | JdGordon1 | yes, 10k per |
14:09:32 | JdGordon1 | we went the technically stupider but workable option |
14:09:47 | pamaury | On e200, without dircache it boots in around 2sec, with fresh dircache build it boots in around 3sec (subjective). I'll now test with your patch but I'm not sure I'll see the difference without bootchart |
14:11:41 | JdGordon1 | that sort of time difference is statistically negligable anyway |
14:12:45 | pamaury | Not really, there is clear difference between them for me. 1sec difference on a 2sec time is not negligeable ! |
14:12:59 | gevaerts | pamaury: was that the foreground scan? |
14:13:21 | pamaury | gevaerts: with your patch, it seems to boot in 2sec with and without dircache |
14:13:41 | pamaury | All are foreground scan |
14:14:16 | pamaury | But that's all subjective as I said |
14:14:28 | gevaerts | hm, I'd assume that the foreground scan shouldn't change |
14:15:04 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: where should I add a log line to see when playback actually starts? |
14:16:07 | JdGordon1 | umm... I don't tihnk thats so simple |
14:16:13 | JdGordon1 | logf isnt threadsafe right? |
14:16:17 | pamaury | Well, I guess I need some logging because it's too hard to notice the difference. I can also try to have thousands of little instead of big ones |
14:16:35 | gevaerts | sure it is |
14:16:55 | gevaerts | Well, actually, I'll add a bootchart line, but that's the same |
14:17:28 | pamaury | huh, I'm not so sure logf is thread-safe, it will mix up lines |
14:17:33 | JdGordon1 | ah, audio_play() blocks (supposedly), so root_menu.c before gui_wps_show() would do |
14:18:29 | JdGordon1 | audio_play() calls queue_send() on the playback thread, so if that blocks then thats the best place |
14:18:49 | gevaerts | Isn't that the point where playback starts buffering? |
14:19:40 | gevaerts | i.e. on my F60 10 seconds before I actually hear sound |
14:20:20 | JdGordon1 | I'm too tired to work out if audio_play_start() actually starts audio or the buffering mechnism |
14:20:33 | JdGordon1 | but thats what the playback thread calls after audio_play() |
14:20:41 | JdGordon1 | comments suggest it does start playback |
14:20:54 | JdGordon1 | Although... I see the wps before hearing music, so maybe not |
14:21:25 | gevaerts | yes, that's the problem |
14:23:38 | JdGordon1 | another thing.. we should maybe split starting audio from starting the PS on boot |
14:23:55 | JdGordon1 | rewrite the whole damn apps/ folder imo! |
14:24:49 | gevaerts | Get busy! ;) |
14:24:52 | amiconn | logf() is threadsafe, since we have cooperative threading |
14:25:06 | amiconn | It's not interrupt safe, but that doesn't matter here |
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14:25:45 | * | JdGordon1 goned |
14:27:09 | | Quit Strife1989 (Quit: See ya.) |
14:28:46 | gevaerts | amiconn: do you have opinions on FS #11167? I'd want to commit fairly soon, but I'm not sure if and how the mechanism should be generalised to tagcache and other background scanners, so I'd like more opinions |
14:34:39 | pamaury | gevaerts: implement I/O priority on a per thread basis ? For example, each thread as a "I/O delta" parameter and the storage refuses a read/write if the delta to last I/O is greater than the parameter |
14:34:52 | pamaury | * refuse=delay |
14:37:39 | gevaerts | hm |
14:38:44 | gevaerts | It should obviously be thread based I think, but maybe two classes are enough? Background and immediate |
14:40:03 | kugel | another parameter for create_thread? |
14:40:20 | gevaerts | or an extra function to set it |
14:40:32 | kugel | or maybe a single struct to pass? |
14:40:57 | * | gevaerts doesn't care much. He wants to get the actual mechanism right, the way to set the numbers is not very important |
14:41:19 | bertrik | gevaerts, I haven't really thought this through myself, but having simply two categories background and immediate sounds good |
14:42:03 | gevaerts | If a background IO thread sees that an immediate thread has done IO recently, it waits until this is no longer the case, with possibly a maximum waiting time after which it can run anyway |
14:43:36 | * | kugel tends to agree with pamaury |
14:43:45 | gevaerts | The exact same mechanism might work with more than two levels |
14:44:26 | * | gevaerts doesn't really fully understand pamaury's proposal |
14:45:27 | bertrik | I think the mechanism should not be too intrusive, like refusing I/O |
14:45:45 | gevaerts | oh, definitely not |
14:47:14 | pamaury | My proposition is the following: each thread has internal two storage parameters: io_delta and last_io_tick. On each read/write, the storage_code compute current_tick-last_io_tick and if the result if < io_delta, then the read/write is delayed (for example it yields/sleep) |
14:47:34 | pamaury | By adjusting io_delta, you can "immediate" and "background" threads like you said |
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14:48:27 | gevaerts | pamaury: doesn't that also slow down IO if there's no other IO going on? |
14:48:35 | kugel | if a immediate thread calls a io func it could set a timeout (current_tick+X), if a backgorund thread calls a io func it sleeps while TIME_BEFORE(current_tick, timeout) |
14:48:43 | kugel | sounds simple enough to me |
14:48:44 | pamaury | yes, you'll have to implement something like that also |
14:50:45 | pamaury | I just want to make you aware of the fact that a more general machanism makes sense if you want to generalize your patch to tagcache and others. |
14:51:27 | gevaerts | If you do this timeout based, I don't see why the delta is stil useful |
14:51:46 | * | gevaerts decides to put his ideas in code |
14:52:12 | bertrik | how about some kind of priority-based mutex for disk-access, where the waiting thread with the highest IO priority is granted access to the disk |
14:52:54 | pamaury | you also have to let the background thread a little bit of disk access ! |
14:53:20 | Luca_S | uh oh.. audacity is starting to behave in a strange way during the battery bench |
14:53:22 | gevaerts | ok, so the delta would be a maximum wait time, not a general wait time |
14:53:48 | bertrik | pamaury, I don't see why, it just has to wait until the higher priority tasks are done |
14:53:52 | kugel | a mutex would remove the need for the storage drivers to implement a mutex, wouldn't it? |
14:54:23 | gevaerts | bertrik: will that prevent thrashing? |
14:54:32 | gevaerts | (the mutexes I mean) |
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14:57:16 | bertrik | gevaerts, it might not, if a high priority IO task is done and releases the mutex, it's probably immediately taken by one of the waiting lower IO tasks |
14:57:55 | pamaury | gevaerts: yes you're right, the delta would be a sort of maximum wait time, it's better this way |
14:58:14 | bertrik | Didn't linux have some kind of very simple mechanism where it simply waited for a few ms before switching I/O tasks, assuming that after a read was done, the same task would most probably do another read? |
14:58:47 | gevaerts | I suspect one priority number will work. If you're priority 0, you won't wait. If you're priority 10, you're lower than 5, and you wait for up to 10 units |
14:59:12 | gevaerts | bertrik: I think the thing I'm working on is equivalent to that |
14:59:22 | pamaury | I think Linux has a full blown I/O scheduler |
14:59:37 | pamaury | Well several :) |
14:59:47 | pamaury | The default one is CFQ or something like that iirc |
15:00 |
15:00:02 | gevaerts | They also have lots of caching and queues |
15:00:29 | pamaury | Linux is complicated ;) |
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15:02:26 | bertrik | Just to be clear, the problem is that on disk-based players there are two threads fighting for disk access thereby causing a lot of seeking, right? |
15:03:16 | gevaerts | that's the main problem, yes. |
15:03:42 | pamaury | And one of these thread is a background thread |
15:03:48 | gevaerts | There's also the fact that even without seeking buffering might be delayed by dircache or similar, which I'd like to avoid if possible |
15:06:36 | kugel | hm, without boosting, mem access seems to be more than 10 slower; apparently it scales with the cpu clock as well |
15:06:39 | kugel | (fuzev2) |
15:13:31 | * | bertrik looks forward to gevaerts implementation |
15:15:48 | kugel | indeed, around 10 times slower with 1/10 freq |
15:16:15 | kugel | should I commit the test_mem plugin? |
15:16:42 | bertrik | maybe you can implement the delay and the priority in just a simple number per disk, the "current IO priority level". Threads with IO priority higher than that get immediate access and raise the disk IO-priority level to their level, lower threads are blocked. The per-disk IO-priority level decreases by one for each tick, so that eventually the lower level blocked threads get access. |
15:17:48 | bertrik | kugel, sounds like a useful thing to have, is there a patch of it somewhere? |
15:19:57 | AlexP | gevaerts: Any specific requirements to test this? Just time with and without, or do I need to enable/disable stuff in between? |
15:20:33 | gevaerts | AlexP: just see if it helps you. I'm now basically redoing the thing anyway :) |
15:20:50 | AlexP | OK :) |
15:21:03 | kugel | bertrik: http://pastie.org/901628 |
15:22:04 | gevaerts | bertrik: I considered doing that. I decided not to change the priority though, I'm not sure we should do that |
15:23:21 | kugel | 700kB per tick on my fuzev2 |
15:23:25 | gevaerts | hm, this was meant to make booting faster, not hugely slower... |
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15:25:16 | kugel | 7MB per tick when boosted |
15:25:18 | | Quit liar (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
15:25:32 | kugel | no wait, my math is wrong |
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15:26:05 | bertrik | kugel, ok, looks good to me. Maybe buf should be made volatile to make absolutely sure that indeed memory is accessed (optimisation may conclude that x is never used). Also put your own name in the header if you wrote it. And maybe you can have the plugin calculate kB/s or Mb/s |
15:26:21 | kugel | 70k per tick unboosted, betwee 750k and 1M boosted |
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15:29:08 | kugel | heh, volatile buf and x makes it way slower ;) |
15:29:21 | kugel | but now read is slower than x |
15:29:47 | kugel | I eventually wanted to make it discard x, because if x is on the stack each read is a write too |
15:31:08 | AlexP | gevaerts: Until main menu shows: Current build (no dircache) 6.5s with dircache 9.6 s with patch + dircache 6.5 s |
15:31:30 | Luca_S | i'm no expert, but i'm not sure about this testing method. if the cpu is unboosted, all the cpu operations will be affected, not just loads and stores; the increments and the comparisons too. are they negligible? |
15:31:36 | gevaerts | AlexP: from poweron? |
15:31:41 | AlexP | gevaerts: This is with all other settings reset |
15:31:48 | AlexP | gevaerts: From seeing the RB bootloader |
15:31:52 | gevaerts | OK, so with the (big) default font |
15:32:23 | gevaerts | AlexP: how about until you can actually hear music? |
15:32:26 | AlexP | yeah, 15-adobe-helvetica |
15:32:28 | bertrik | kugel, can't you use some kind of standard functions instead of your own loops, like memset and memcpy? |
15:32:31 | AlexP | gevaerts: I'll try |
15:32:39 | | Quit TheSeven|Mobile (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
15:32:49 | gevaerts | with dircache. Without, it's not going to make a difference |
15:33:16 | AlexP | k |
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15:37:06 | kugel | bertrik: should I? that only works for writes anyway, and currently (going by the disassembly) gcc is doing exactly what I want |
15:37:26 | AlexP | gevaerts: With start screen set to resume without patch 16.4 s with patch 8.2 s until I hear music |
15:37:48 | AlexP | Quite a good improvement :) |
15:38:22 | kugel | Luca_S: yes, basically |
15:38:56 | kugel | there's 3 million memory access but only a handful other instructions |
15:39:51 | kugel | maybe the loop counter increment isn't that negible but that's impossible to get around |
15:40:58 | gevaerts | AlexP: yes, I think it's not too bad :) |
15:41:43 | AlexP | gevaerts: So hurry up and get it in :P |
15:41:47 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
15:45:31 | gevaerts | new patch ready |
15:45:41 | gevaerts | (and briefly tested on gigabeat f) |
15:45:57 | AlexP | Would you like me to try? |
15:48:17 | gevaerts | sure. I'm especially interested in reviews, but testing is always welcome |
15:50:22 | bertrik | gevaerts, silly question maybe but what is that IF_MD2 in the patch? |
15:51:24 | gevaerts | bertrik: it makes the argument disappear on single-drive systems |
15:51:39 | gevaerts | This and other related macros are defined in mv.h |
15:52:16 | * | kugel totally hates IF_MD* |
15:52:51 | gevaerts | kugel: I see your point, but this patch isn't the place to remove them |
15:53:05 | bertrik | yeah, feels like a giant hack (not attacking this particular patch though) |
15:53:13 | * | gevaerts points to http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi . Have a look at the time for the latest build |
15:53:28 | kugel | gevaerts: that's correct, unfortunately :) |
15:53:40 | bertrik | ludicrously fast |
15:56:00 | kugel | so, it must be the dbop that is so slow |
15:56:07 | kugel | e200v1 memory is *way* slower |
15:56:26 | AlexP | gevaerts: Also 8.2 here :) |
16:00 |
16:01:12 | bertrik | gevaerts, if there are two threads with equal io priority, the current one will keep access until the timeout, right? |
16:01:23 | kugel | roolku pimped his clients? |
16:02:18 | gevaerts | bertrik: with equal io, things shouldn't change compared to svn. Whoever calls the function first will get in first, there will be no extra sleeping |
16:03:05 | gevaerts | hm, I think I can make it work for multiple drives pretty easily |
16:04:52 | CIA-5 | New commit by kugel (r25450): Memory benchmark plugin. Tests memory speeds and prints the kB/s. |
16:06:31 | CIA-5 | New commit by alle (r25451): Properly set the keywords for the recently added file |
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16:08:03 | roolku | yeah, 1:45 min. :) |
16:08:03 | kugel | roolku: your new clients own :) |
16:09:14 | gevaerts | roolku: what sort of machines are those? |
16:09:55 | roolku | dual xeons with i7 core |
16:10:35 | kugel | 2x 4 cores? |
16:11:21 | roolku | kugel: and hyperthreading, so they are reporting 16 cores all together :) |
16:11:26 | kugel | bertrik: it appears the dbop is slowing things down. the memory is slow, but not slow enough to make the UI suck that much |
16:11:36 | roolku | our new cluster |
16:11:39 | kugel | roolku: insane :) |
16:12:09 | bertrik | kugel, but dbop is not used during the test, or is it? |
16:12:11 | roolku | not sure how long I can use them for rockbox though... |
16:12:59 | kugel | bertrik: not at all |
16:14:25 | CIA-5 | New commit by kugel (r25452): Move delta calculation up so that only the loop time counts. |
16:15:38 | kugel | bertrik: strangely though the mem is on v2 slower when unboosted, but about the same when boosted |
16:17:01 | bertrik | kugel, I don't know the clocking scheme of the v2 ams sansa, I read that there's no longer a selection of fastbus, async or sync modes between cpu and the rest of the SoC. |
16:17:16 | JdGordon1 | gevaerts: something to think about... we dont want background threads waiting for the forground thread if they are accessing different disks (not volumes though!) |
16:17:29 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: yes, see latest patch :) |
16:17:41 | JdGordon1 | :) just making sure |
16:18:09 | gevaerts | I couldn't do volumes anyway, that's a different layer |
16:18:17 | JdGordon1 | oh right |
16:20:26 | kugel | bertrik: the "clock modes" section in the arm922t reference manual is replaced by a "tightly-coupled memory interface" section in the arm926ejs one |
16:20:50 | CIA-5 | New commit by alle (r25453): Small cosmetic changes to the hotkey description |
16:23:21 | kugel | do we need the speculative noncacheable instruction fetches feature of armv5? |
16:23:34 | JdGordon1 | (this might be target dependant but...) Is writing a in ram BMP to the lcd "expensive"? |
16:23:38 | JdGordon1 | battery/cpu-wise |
16:23:54 | JdGordon1 | I assume compared to decoding it would be negligable? |
16:24:03 | kugel | our armv4 which don't have that don't have that problem |
16:24:26 | kugel | JdGordon1: well, it's a memcpy, you can use my just committed plugin to see how expensive it is |
16:24:42 | JdGordon1 | that would invalidate tomorows bench |
16:25:12 | CIA-5 | New commit by alle (r25454): Restore wrongly deleted text |
16:25:18 | kugel | ? |
16:25:41 | JdGordon1 | I'm doing a series of benchmarks with the same svn version and album, but in different screens |
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16:27:13 | S_a_i_n_t | what is/are "playlist viewer indices" please? |
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16:27:28 | JdGordon1 | ? |
16:27:40 | S_a_i_n_t | anyone? |
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16:28:26 | S_a_i_n_t | its a config file option, but i don't know what it does. |
16:28:54 | JdGordon1 | I think its to show/hide the index numbers in the playlist viewer |
16:29:01 | JdGordon1 | the real viewier, not the one on the wps |
16:29:08 | S_a_i_n_t | the manual doesn't say (before i get an RTFM) |
16:29:28 | S_a_i_n_t | hmmmmm...seems plausible, thanks. |
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16:40:51 | gevaerts | JdGordon1: I seem to remember a pretty significant difference between the old rockbox_default and the menu, back in early 2008. That one has/had peakmeters |
16:41:25 | JdGordon1 | this is why I',m doing the tests |
16:41:54 | JdGordon1 | assuming there is any difference, it doesnt show any difference if the enginge is running at all |
16:42:15 | JdGordon1 | tomorows bench will be in the hw debug screen which does nothing while it waits for a keypress (no skin updating at all) |
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16:45:10 | JdGordon1 | ctrl+alt+e apparently |
16:45:14 | JdGordon1 | maybe thats windows only thoguh |
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16:46:28 | roolku | I think the build server has problems coping. it is not reporting n02 when it is clearly doing builds and uploading them...it was n09 and n15 in the previous round |
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17:01:15 | S_a_i_n_t | Dammit, this sucks. Howcome you can't turn icons off with a theme .cfg? |
17:01:37 | S_a_i_n_t | I have "show icons: no" in my theme .cfg, but it still shows icons :\ |
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17:06:58 | S_a_i_n_t | Man, that *really* sucks...A theme should be able to turn the icons off if so desired. |
17:07:03 | kugel | S_a_i_n_t: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodnano1g/rockbox-buildap4.html#x19-376000D |
17:07:11 | kugel | you're doing it wrong, that's it |
17:07:20 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm pretty damn sure you used to be able to do that with a theme.cfg |
17:07:22 | kugel | i.e. RTFM ;) |
17:07:35 | Blue_Dude | I want to throw an idea out there. I'd like to make the pitchscreen settings (pitch and speed) permanent between sessions like most other audio settings. Any objections or problems with this approach? |
17:07:48 | kugel | yes |
17:08:00 | kugel | I like the idea to store it in the bookmarks way better |
17:08:18 | S_a_i_n_t | How am I "doing it wrong"? |
17:08:52 | kugel | well, compare what you wrote with what's written at the page I linked |
17:08:56 | gevaerts | I also think that bookmarks are the better place |
17:08:58 | Blue_Dude | Well, I'm working on a patch to store version info in bookmarks so any changes to the bookmark format will be backwards compatible. Still, I'd like to keep pitch and speed information. |
17:09:01 | S_a_i_n_t | show icons: no seems fine according to the link you just posted. |
17:09:19 | kugel | but "no" is not a valid value... |
17:09:32 | S_a_i_n_t | *facepalm* |
17:09:37 | S_a_i_n_t | lol...gotcha |
17:09:41 | Blue_Dude | Sounds like that's going to be shot down pretty decisively... |
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17:11:19 | gevaerts | Blue_Dude: I'd find it hugely annoying if speed is kept at some nonstandard value if I pick up a player and start playing some music. Much more so than picking it up to play a new audiobook/podcast and finding that I still need to speed it up a bit |
17:11:27 | angelwolf71885 | so the only way to disable icons from the status bar on the mail menu is by theming them into the arrangement you want them in? |
17:11:32 | Blue_Dude | There's already a patch out there to store pitchscreen information in bookmarks but it breaks backwards compatibility. I'm working on a mod to fix that. |
17:11:37 | angelwolf71885 | main* |
17:12:26 | Blue_Dude | gevaerts: I hear you, but I play mostly stuff that need to be sped up and I have to do it every time. I guess the bookmark mod would help a lot though. |
17:12:59 | S_a_i_n_t | angelwolf71885: Wait...what are you trying to do? |
17:13:30 | angelwolf71885 | actuialy its more of a question the stat bar where the battery and clock is |
17:13:36 | kugel | angelwolf71885: you can disable the statusbar? |
17:13:47 | angelwolf71885 | not disable it |
17:14:07 | angelwolf71885 | re range the icons on it and disable unneeded ones |
17:14:13 | gevaerts | angelwolf71885: you're asking if you can customise the status bar without customising it? |
17:14:26 | S_a_i_n_t | seems like it ;) |
17:14:28 | kugel | you need a base skin (so yes, themeing) if you want to keep it but also want prettier icons |
17:14:50 | angelwolf71885 | ah ok thanks thats the thing i was wondering |
17:15:19 | angelwolf71885 | i was just curios mostly how to make the time center and the battery all the way to the right |
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17:15:44 | Blue_Dude | OK, thanks for the reality check. I'll concentrate on bookmarks then. |
17:16:13 | S_a_i_n_t | Opening up "classic_statusabr.sbs" will probably give you a clue |
17:16:30 | angelwolf71885 | ah ok thanks :) |
17:16:35 | S_a_i_n_t | that and the CustomWPS page in the wiki |
17:17:13 | angelwolf71885 | i went through the WPS info on the wiki but it was all Greek to me lol |
17:17:47 | S_a_i_n_t | well, if thats the case I'm not sure how much luck you'll have with the .sbs then |
17:17:54 | S_a_i_n_t | But, its not that hard to learn |
17:18:21 | S_a_i_n_t | Trial & error works best as a teaching tool in cases such as this. |
17:18:43 | angelwolf71885 | well probbably not much more luck xD thats kinda why i was asking if re arangeing the stat bar was from themes lol |
17:19:45 | angelwolf71885 | yah figureing it out is going to take playing with it and recording the results thanks for the clues :) |
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17:36:19 | kugel | can I get the value of compile time constants during compilation? |
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17:40:24 | kugel | I assume that we - instead of using a divider for clocking down - clock down pclk directly which also slows down all peripherals including dbop |
17:40:58 | kugel | (I don't know whether something else is actually possible) |
17:41:32 | kugel | but even at 60MHz DBOP is too slow, something is wrong since on fuzev1 DBOP at 62MHz works just fine |
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18:14:46 | funman | kugel: http://pastie.org/901795 <- here is the code I used to verify that the peripheral clock (at least the one used by the timer) is independant from the CPU clock |
18:16:52 | kugel | doesn't the timer have its own frequency (1.2MHz?) |
18:17:35 | * | funman slaps himself repeatedly |
18:17:37 | funman | yeah .. |
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18:21:11 | kugel | but anyway, the lcd performance just sucks even at 60MHz the UI is really sluggish, we must be missing something |
18:22:08 | kugel | in the meanwhile I test whether the button reads disturb the lcd too much (I deactivated the button read routines at ran test_fps via autorock) but they dont |
18:22:53 | kugel | do you think the pixel swapping makes it slower? I almost can't believe that |
18:23:13 | funman | hm that could be |
18:23:30 | kugel | it shouldn't make it 90% slower though? |
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18:27:47 | bertrik | I guess there's still some divider somewhere that makes it run within range at 240 MHz and severely low at 24 MHz |
18:27:48 | funman | memory speed is much lower on fuzev2 than on fuzev1 indeed |
18:29:00 | kugel | we should turn off the speculative instruction caching, we don't need that IMO |
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18:31:40 | kugel | the tcm stuff is mystic to me too |
18:32:11 | * | funman notes to read this stuff later |
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18:35:56 | funman | idea: try writing different values to CGU_PERI[1:0] now that we can change CPU freq |
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18:37:47 | kugel | btw, is there a reason for 24MHz? |
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18:38:14 | funman | "low, and around e200v1 frequency" |
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18:39:07 | funman | I noticed weird noises in the headphones while listening to Clipv2: the noise seems to appear each time the CPU is boosted, but doesn't go away when I force it to be always boosted. I'll need to investigate further |
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18:39:59 | funman | I'm sorry to have brought so many problems, but I think it helps us understanding better. If you feel it creates too much problems reverting should be as easy as commenting out ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ in config/*.h |
18:40:24 | * | kugel is curious about TIMERIF_EN (or the timer module APB IF in general) |
18:40:45 | kugel | funman: no need to be sorry, it shows we're not there yet ;) |
18:40:48 | funman | ^^ |
18:43:03 | cousteau | just a quick question: this firmware isn't intended for low-end mp3+video players like this http://muycomputer.com/files/264-7322-FOTO/INGO_MP4_LASVEGAS.jpg right? |
18:43:26 | cousteau | just more advanced things like iPods and the like? |
18:43:53 | gevaerts | cousteau: the more advanced ones are mor likely to have hardware powerful enough to run rockbox, yes |
18:44:29 | gevaerts | but it's impossible to see what hardware is inside on a picture like that :) |
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18:44:51 | cousteau | ok, let me see if I can find the specs... |
18:45:02 | Farthen | the display doesn't look very good :-) I don |
18:45:21 | Farthen | 't think that you'd have much fun with it |
18:45:41 | gevaerts | Farthen: have you ever seen a c200 display? |
18:45:49 | Farthen | no |
18:45:51 | * | cousteau is considering building his own mp3 player |
18:46:00 | gevaerts | Or the display on the iaudio M3? ;) |
18:46:21 | Farthen | no, only experience with some creative devices and ipods so far |
18:47:08 | cousteau | I really don't know why these devices are "video"-enabled |
18:47:11 | Farthen | cousteau: it would be much more expensive than buying an "advanced" DAP |
18:47:40 | cousteau | i.e. a weird video format called MTV which specs are very fuzzy |
18:47:47 | Farthen | and it would be pretty clumsy |
18:47:59 | funman | test_fps shows comparable results for clipv1 & v2 when boosted (although there's an error when calculating CPU load), but Clipv2 is much slower (4x to 8x) when unboosted |
18:48:00 | cousteau | (well, it simply has no specs) |
18:48:41 | gevaerts | cousteau: ah, that points to it being one of those Chinese 8-bit or 16-bit CPUs with a DSP. If so, you won't ever run rockbox on it |
18:49:38 | funman | http://pastie.org/901817 |
18:49:45 | cousteau | yes, typical Sigmatel thing, I think |
18:50:52 | cousteau | it plays songs, radio, and has hundreds of features I'll never use |
18:51:31 | cousteau | such as video, images, lyrics, games... |
18:52:25 | cousteau | "e-books" (i.e. displays plain txt files)... |
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18:56:31 | FlynDice | funman: re try writing different values to CGU_PERI[1:0] : I have done this and when I go check the register value on the debug page b1:0 are always cleared. |
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18:57:18 | funman | the bits could be write only though |
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18:57:56 | * | FlynDice has crappy hotel connection and intermittant freezes with new laptop ubuntu setup so apologizes for being here then not in advance... ;-) |
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18:58:53 | * | funman propose to send the rockbox ninjas at the said hotel, to get the connection fixed |
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18:59:37 | * | FlynDice assumes lotus position and waits patiently |
19:00 |
19:01:13 | FlynDice | I can't think of a good reason that those bits would be write only |
19:01:14 | * | funman acknowledges that CGU_PERI represents Buddha, and walks without doubts |
19:01:35 | funman | yep :/ |
19:01:55 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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19:10:47 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25455): Clipv2: fix grey lcd output ... |
19:11:19 | * | funman feels like it was not very important at this point .. |
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19:27:44 | gevaerts | What's the typical worst-case seek time on a slowish disk? |
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20:00 |
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20:15:28 | fml | Hello. I wonder whether we could/should push the "?" into the localized string in onplay.c:1331. This would also eliminate the second call (appending "?"). |
20:16:56 | | Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
20:16:59 | fml | Also, I have a somewhat strange effect when I assign the hotkey function: after I confirm that I do want to change the assignment, the confirmation is displayed both in a "pop up" and as a printed text at the top of the screen. |
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20:17:49 | CIA-5 | New commit by zagor (r25456): Moved old news items to history.t |
20:18:23 | gevaerts | fml: I'm not *entirely* sure, but it looks as if the code makes two messages, one with the ? and one without |
20:18:36 | Luca_S | FuzeV2 battery bench ended. lame_128.mp3 played in loop for 17 hrs 50 minutes :) |
20:18:50 | gevaerts | If so, I think the code is wrong. You can't just assume that you can make a question by appending "?" in any language |
20:19:23 | Luca_S | the OF still boots after RB shutdown however |
20:19:25 | Luca_S | it even plays |
20:19:58 | bertrik | but it does show nearly empty battery,right? |
20:20:00 | Luca_S | although the battery indicator is nearly empty |
20:20:12 | fml | gevaerts: where are the two messages? I only see one. |
20:20:30 | gevaerts | fml: strcpy(line2, line1) |
20:20:44 | Luca_S | RB battery reading says 3.348 |
20:20:57 | gevaerts | It copies the string from line1 to line2, and appends "?" to line2 |
20:21:34 | Luca_S | anything else to check before recharging it? |
20:22:41 | bertrik | I don't know, would be fun perhaps to do a battery bench while charging |
20:22:41 | fml | gevaerts: ah, and both are used! What do the params of gui_syncyesno mean? |
20:22:57 | gevaerts | fml: that's GUI code! I don't know that! :) |
20:23:26 | Luca_S | bertrik: I suppose you are talking about a real battery bench with filesystem write support? |
20:23:48 | bertrik | oh yeah, I forgot about that |
20:24:55 | gevaerts | Luca_S: well, that does point to what you could do next :) |
20:25:29 | Luca_S | i'll ask for write support to the easter bunny :D |
20:25:41 | Luca_S | that's all I can do :D |
20:26:05 | Luca_S | gotta go now, see you tomorrow |
20:27:01 | fml | gevaerts: I would push the ? into the localized string and just use "yes" and "no" as the possible answers. The current code repeats the action text as the yes-answer. |
20:28:30 | gevaerts | fml: maybe. I haven't looked at the actual screen |
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20:32:40 | fml | gevaerts: I will do it, both because of efficiency and better localizability |
20:34:13 | gevaerts | Zagor: did you see roolku's comment at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20100403#16:46:28 ? |
20:35:01 | gevaerts | Also, 1:42 isn't too bad :) |
20:37:27 | Zagor | I don't see what he is referring to |
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20:39:03 | gevaerts | I don't really know either |
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20:44:27 | * | kugel wonders what funman meant with "*funman acknowledges that CGU_PERI represents Buddha, and walks without doubts" |
20:45:10 | fml | Hrm... May I change the recently introduced hotkey entries in the lang files? I woudn't like to deprecate them and introduce new, they're very fresh. |
20:45:47 | kugel | why deprecate? |
20:45:56 | fml | I want to introduce a separate string for the question and for the confirmation |
20:46:31 | fml | kugel: because they already exist and I want to chnage them (also the names) |
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20:46:56 | kugel | not sure why they need to be separate but can't you change the one and add the other one? |
20:47:05 | saratoga | unrolling the test_mem loops a little might give more accurate numbers |
20:47:15 | saratoga | e.g. doing 4 loads per loop iteration instead of just 1 |
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20:47:52 | kugel | saratoga: I thought that too but the array index needs to be incremented anyway? or do you mean the branch? |
20:48:14 | fml | kugel: because now the question is just constructed from the confirmation by adding a ?. This works for English but won't for e.g. German. |
20:48:14 | saratoga | kugel: the branch |
20:48:15 | kugel | hm maybe not on arm |
20:48:40 | saratoga | {x = buf[j]; x = buf[j+1]; x = buf[j+2]; x = buf[j+3];} |
20:48:46 | kugel | fml: works for my German :) |
20:49:01 | gevaerts | Well, it definitely won't work in general |
20:49:21 | saratoga | the branch on some targets will be relatively slow, even compared to memory reads |
20:49:26 | kugel | probably, but I still don't understand why that one needs to be incremented? |
20:49:42 | saratoga | which needs? |
20:52:05 | kugel | oops, I meant deprecated w.r.t. to fml's issue |
20:52:14 | saratoga | oh ok |
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20:52:43 | saratoga | i was just thinking on a target like PP, the loop is 2-3 cycles and the add one cycle, while a load to IRAM is just 2 cycles |
20:52:44 | gevaerts | fml: I guess not deprecating is fine. There probably aren't translations yet anyway |
20:53:24 | fml | gevaerts: I think so too. I'll upload a patch soon. |
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20:57:19 | Luca_S | hm |
20:57:26 | Luca_S | I just upgraded to the latest svn |
20:57:52 | Luca_S | the brightness issue is gone, thank you ;) |
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20:59:21 | Luca_S | and plugging usb briefly displays the usb logo, then reboots |
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21:00:14 | kugel | saratoga: with unrolling I get an add between each ldr/str |
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21:06:25 | saratoga | kugel: shouldn't it just be an indexed load? |
21:06:26 | kugel | but it looks like they're free |
21:06:31 | saratoga | like LDR r0,[r1,#8]; LDR r0,[r1,#12], etc |
21:07:08 | kugel | I thought that too but gcc does "strr2, [r6, r3, lsl #2]" |
21:08:11 | saratoga | ugh |
21:08:32 | | Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
21:08:38 | saratoga | maybe its worth trying ASM here |
21:08:47 | saratoga | we could also try running it with multiple loads and single loads |
21:08:57 | saratoga | i'll take a look when i get into work |
21:09:13 | kugel | I can't asm for the other arch's though :( |
21:09:33 | saratoga | yeah that'll have to stay c for now |
21:10:21 | saratoga | this plugin could be really helpful for understanding the werid performance we see on ARM targets |
21:10:36 | saratoga | which reminds me, does anyone have a D2 or Mrobe500 that can run test codec on it? |
21:13:17 | kugel | saratoga: we could also test the iram with it |
21:15:26 | saratoga | kugel: nonsequential accesses would also be very interesting |
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21:15:44 | saratoga | step 32 bytes at a time so we don't hit the same cacheline |
21:16:18 | | Quit mischasworld (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
21:18:48 | kugel | we possibly could get the add away with casting to char array then casting back |
21:20:15 | kugel | but they seem free anyway if I get that right |
21:20:45 | kugel | unless we have 1c ldr/str |
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21:33:48 | fml | gevaerts: patch is up, FS #11171 |
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21:35:09 | fml | kugel: you know the gui code. Could you also review the patch (FS #11171)? |
21:38:45 | kugel | maybe add a to in the lang strings? |
21:40:55 | fml | kugel: you mean "Hotkey assigned to ..."? I think it would be wrong. The function is assigned to the hotkey, not the hotkey to function. |
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21:41:56 | Llorean | To some users at least, since it's one key and multiple functions, it feels like you're picking which function to assign the key to. |
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21:42:12 | kugel | fml: the last two lines of the patch look wrong |
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21:43:48 | kugel | why a splash and not the yes/no messages of the yesno screen? |
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21:48:00 | fml | Because yesno message is a question. The splash is a confirmation |
21:51:05 | kugel | do we have a confirmation after the yesno screen anywhere else? |
21:52:22 | kugel | fml: the yesno screen shows a confirmation message itself |
21:54:38 | fml | kugel: ah, so the yes parameter is the confirmation message? |
21:54:43 | | Quit catfish (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
21:54:44 | kugel | right |
21:54:53 | fml | I thought it's the string to show for "yes" |
21:55:44 | kugel | it has a confirmation and a cancel message |
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22:00 |
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22:01:57 | roolku | Zagor gevaerts: in 25453 n02 didn't get any jobs, same happened to n09,n15 in 25452 and n09 in 25451 even though they have been online same as the rest, all back in 25454, 25455 |
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22:02:54 | Zagor | roolku: hmm, strange |
22:04:01 | roolku | n04 is offline for real |
22:04:15 | fml | kugel: what happens if one of the parameters is set to NULL? No confirmation? |
22:04:46 | Zagor | roolku: aha, "Fatal build error: Missing log file. Blocking n02-roolku." |
22:04:56 | Zagor | that indeed looks like a bug |
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22:09:31 | roolku | Zagor: looking at rashers charts, it seems the new servers starting fairly late (large gap before the green bar) - any idea what could be causing this? |
22:09:41 | roolku | example: rasher.dk/rockbox/buildgraphs/graph.php?r=25455">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/buildgraphs/graph.php?r=25455 |
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22:11:05 | Zagor | roolku: which client are you looking at? |
22:11:22 | | Quit TMM (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
22:11:51 | roolku | any n* server building a real target (i.e. green bar) |
22:12:36 | Zagor | hmm? they all look fine to me. perhaps it's a html/css issue? |
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22:13:09 | Zagor | oh I do see what you mean in the non-debug view |
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22:14:22 | kugel | fml: I assume so |
22:14:33 | | Quit FlynDice (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
22:14:33 | kugel | svn gives a confirmation message but no cancel message |
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22:15:29 | Zagor | roolku: that is a display issue with rasher's script. the log file shows they all started the same second |
22:16:03 | kugel | they're too fast for the scripts! |
22:16:36 | roolku | okay, fair enough. It seemed strange that it effected the new servers to a greater extend |
22:17:22 | roolku | they don't seem to like building checkwps though - takes them nearly as long as a proper build :) |
22:17:49 | Zagor | yes, that is rather strange |
22:18:13 | Zagor | I wonder what is taking so long |
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22:19:31 | roolku | I had to cheat and add them in small groups otherwise they would only get bootloaders and checkwps and the score would stay low. |
22:19:44 | fml | kugel: new version of the patch is up (FS #11171) |
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22:21:10 | Zagor | roolku: it would most likely have worked out anyway since those machines really rip up the speculative builds |
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22:21:36 | Zagor | but it is indeed unfortunate that the benchmark builds perform so poorly. and not just for your clients. |
22:21:57 | kugel | also, r25453 had a strange binsize change for the ipod4ggrey |
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22:22:29 | kugel | those seem happen from time to time |
22:23:09 | Zagor | yes, there is some uploading bug that sometimes gives files the wrong names |
22:23:17 | roolku | have a look at n15 and n18 in rasher.dk/rockbox/buildgraphs/graph.php?r=25436">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/buildgraphs/graph.php?r=25436 they just didn't get any proper builds and couldn't improve their score - I had to take out machines with high scores to give thenm a chance :) |
22:23:30 | Zagor | and that causes client block (log file not found) and wrong binsize diffs |
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22:23:44 | roolku | Zagor: good find |
22:24:08 | kugel | gevaerts: why HAVE_IO_PRIORITY ? it seems like a good thing to do on any target |
22:24:09 | Zagor | unfortunately I haven't found the cause of it :-( |
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22:36:32 | fml | I'm about to commit FS #11171 I'd like to do it quickly because it changes lang entries. |
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22:39:44 | scott666 | hi, I just got installed a 240GB HD in my ipod video and have been having problems with the boot loader. I installed cygwin and recompiled the source making the changes mentioned in this link but it still does not work. is there someone that can help me? http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2010-02/0042.shtml |
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22:52:20 | kugel | hrm |
22:52:31 | kugel | scrollwheel irq isn't going to work well I think |
22:53:02 | kugel | I think we can't reliably tell the time difference between 2 interrupts |
22:54:37 | kugel | the timer may wrap, and its maximum value seems to be 15k |
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22:59:37 | CIA-5 | New commit by alle (r25457): Make hotkey strings (question and confirmation) better localizable (FS #11171) |
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23:20:04 | gevaerts | kugel: maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure if it's a win on flash, and it definitely only makes sense if there is a background thread that does IO. If you do a no-database no-dircache build, the priority code is useless |
23:20:36 | kugel | isn't it less than 300 bytes? |
23:20:58 | amiconn | Btw, it's not so sure that different disks don't affect each other. |
23:21:23 | amiconn | It depends on the controller - it's quite possible that parallel access is impossible |
23:21:49 | saratoga | i keep getting "internal compiler errors" trying to do simple ASM statements |
23:21:54 | saratoga | anyone else seen these |
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23:22:02 | amiconn | That is true for ide disks on a single channel (master/slave), as well as e.g. the Ondio (but that does neither have dircache nor database in ram) |
23:22:28 | kugel | that's the case on the as3525v2, I don't know if parallel accesses are implemented on as3525 (two controllers) but probably not because of the limited dma capabilities |
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23:23:04 | r2k000 | Hi All |
23:23:04 | kugel | but the driver will handle it in case parallel access is impossible so I wouldn't worry |
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23:23:45 | gevaerts | amiconn: true, so we might want to use single numbers for multi-drive single-controller flash systems. FOr (hypothetical) two-disk ide systems I think we still want to separate them to avoid excessive seeking |
23:24:14 | gevaerts | But worst case is that it behaves like it does without the patch I think |
23:24:36 | * | amiconn thinks the Elio is very special regarding this (doesn't run rockbox yet though) |
23:24:37 | saratoga | does this look like it shouldn't parse (ignoring that it obviously doesn't do anything useful): http://pastebin.com/nya0HMvh |
23:25:34 | gevaerts | amiconn: isn't that going to be the same as the D2, i.e. two different controllers? |
23:25:55 | amiconn | Partially |
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23:26:20 | amiconn | The two controllers are controlling storage with different seek behaviour (hdd vs. flash) |
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23:28:21 | CIA-5 | New commit by alle (r25458): No need to call the same function twice |
23:28:34 | gevaerts | I'm still not entirely sure if the relevant numbers have to be different for flash and disk |
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23:30:46 | gevaerts | STORAGE_MINIMUM_IDLE_TIME should be bigger than the maximum amount of time between two requests from a high priority thread that are considered to be consecutive. I've set that to HZ/10, which might be a bit too high, but I suspect that seek times of 20ms or so won't be that uncommon, so at least on disk targets it can't be much lower |
23:33:16 | gevaerts | STORAGE_DELAY_UNIT should be smaller than STORAGE_MINIMUM_IDLE_TIME, since that's the time you wait before trying again. It's also used (but that can be tweaked) to determine the maximum waiting time since the system will not wait more than <priority> times |
23:33:51 | gevaerts | HZ/20 means (with current priority definitions) a maximum wait of about 1.5 seconds |
23:34:41 | gevaerts | I think we can keep both numbers for now, possibly reducing IO_PRIORITY_BACKGROUND a bit (to 8 maybe?) |
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23:38:23 | gevaerts | Anyway, the thing seems to work well for me. Any objections to committing it? |
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